toxodera sp.

Just out of curiosity does anybody on this forum have or used to have any toxodera sp. I consider this the king of mantids, even more than idolomantis

People have tried to bring them back from their native Malaysia, but to my knowledge have never been successful in getting them to breed or even transporting them. It's something to do with the pressure.

If anyone ever gets them, I sure hope I'm on their good side!

They never were in the US, to most of our knowledge. Two brothers (sufistic and khabirun) kept a toxodera beieri female for four months. They also had stenotoxodera porioni. They also need a very large cage or they supposedly commit suicide by chewing their limbs off and slowly eating themselves to death. To put it in a conclusion, nothing near for a novice keeper. There are over 20 species, most completely unknown except by appearance. To this day no one knows what toxodera ooths look like.

wow, that's a lot of interesting info, I never knew, I do remember the guys though.

I want to camp out in Malaysia's jungles one day and find an ooth.

Fishe said:

I consider this the king of mantids, even more than idolomantis

Click to expand...

Now that my friend is a point of view, and not correct in the slightest!!! Idolo are moving art forms...

haha, it would be quite the operation to camp out, find an ooth or some nymphs, smuggle them into the U.S, set up a huge, somewhat pressurized terrarium and breed and distribute them

Fishe said:

haha, it would be quite the operation to camp out, find an ooth or some nymphs, smuggle them into the U.S, set up a huge, somewhat pressurized terrarium and breed and distribute them

Click to expand...

I know a guy that wants to do exactly that next year.

The day i get out of college i want to go backpacking in malaysia and find some toxos.

brancsikia339 said:

The day i get out of college i want to go backpacking in malaysia and find some toxos.

To succesfully breed them, you should probably start by slowly going down the mountain each year by breeding them, getting them accustomed to lower altitudes. A slow transition would make it easier for them

Click to expand...

ill leave that up to you, seems hard

brancsikia339 said:

The day i get out of college i want to go backpacking in malaysia and find some toxos.

To succesfully breed them, you should probably start by slowly going down the mountain each year by breeding them, getting them accustomed to lower altitudes. A slow transition would make it easier for them

Click to expand...

Sounds like something a crazy person might do. Plus, it seems like you have a Lamarckian view of how Evolution works.

I think some species should be left in the wild...

I don't understand the pressurized terrarium idea, I've heard it from several sources and it just strikes me as an internet myth. If they are from high elevations, where the air is less dense and therefore exerts less pressure, why exactly would they need to be kept in a pressurized container? I suspect that the true problem with keeping them in captivity lies elsewhere.

I kind of just made that up, Ive never heard that anywhere, I guess it would have to be more of a vacuum than a pressurized enclosure

You don't need a reduced pressure environment, what you need is a more naturalistic enclosure with good humidity, airflow, and ready supply of a preferred food source. Too much heresy about this or that from people who don't know is just lame. There is NO precedent for keeping any montane insects that promotes a reduced pressure environment. They definitely need better care than sticking them in a plastic container with some fake plants. Want to see some awesome vivaria? Check out www.dendroboard.com. Internal air circulation, misting systems, the works.

People DO know what their ooths look like, there are former members that have collected them.

I know someone now with Toxodera ootheca, I will ask permission to post pics. The air pressure issues would be very debated, I have to say we dont know enough about the elevation of the species habitat. I would guess though that the species is just far more sensitive to changes in temp, humidity even elevation. I will see them in the wild next winter that is already a guarantee.

I visit the Cameron Highlands, where these things come from, every few weeks. I collect many different types of montane species from the same area and they survive very happily in the lowlands so long as they are not kept too hot. The Cameron Highlands is not that high in altitude! Most Toxodera are found at about 4,000 feet asl, which is not enough to create a need for pressurised habitats. Several species are found slightly lower than that and a few a bit higher - the highest peak is only about 5,000ft.

I have had a couple of Toxodera, which have all died within a few days. Certainly they are very frail. I used to get Ischnomantis on my game farm in South Africa, which is also a long mantis with a reputation for a short life span. The guy who worked for me found half a dozen over a 2 year period. By the time I had collected them and got them home they were weak. Other mantis stayed strong but every ischnomantis died within 24 hours. One day I found a specimen myself and immediately brought it home, sprayed it and put it in a big netting cage with lots of foliage etc. It thrived and laid several ootheca.

I suspect the same is true of Toxodera. By the time the insects are in captivity they have already been stressed. I hope to test this theory out one day but they are very hard to obtain!

frogparty said:

You don't need a reduced pressure environment, what you need is a more naturalistic enclosure with good humidity, airflow, and ready supply of a preferred food source. Too much heresy about this or that from people who don't know is just lame. There is NO precedent for keeping any montane insects that promotes a reduced pressure environment. They definitely need better care than sticking them in a plastic container with some fake plants. Want to see some awesome vivaria? Check out www.dendroboard.com. Internal air circulation, misting systems, the works.

People DO know what their ooths look like, there are former members that have collected them.

Click to expand...

I was talking to Mike about that a while back, I suspect a climate controlled chamber with conditions suitable for highland Nepenthes would be a good start.

There is really too much nonsense in this thread, although the latest posts seem to better assess the problem. Air pressure is not an issue as long as you don't want to breed mantids from the stratosphere.

The reason why these species are found in the Cameron "Highlands" in Malaysia is that in the lowland most rainforest is cut down or replaced by oil palms. The animals would stay down there if they could...

The problems for rainforest species from higher altitudes can be related to stress, temperature (sometimes too high in the lowlands for specimens from a highland population, especially by night), humidy and ventilation. And, the specimens are usually caught for the dry insects trade by the natives, so there is no need to handle them properly. People should leave these creatures to the ones who know what they're doing. But of course everyone is born as an expert and thinks he can do it better. It's funny to see this type of thread popping up every once in a while.