My first mantids ever found in wild, G. Grisea! Plus, mysterious ootheca

EDIT: To recap: The nymphs ended up being liturgusa nymphs, not grisea. Not native to florida. The mystery ootheca are liturgusa. I went back and got more nymphs and some adults. The adult has laid an ooth. The other died of old age. Will try and keep them in culture. They rock!

Before today, I had never seen a mantis in the wild. I messaged around the forums, and mantiseater gave me some pointers So today I drove an hour away and actually found some (after five hours of determination. I have a very patient/awesome boyfriend helper).

I found (what I'm 80% sure) is two g. grisea nymphs. Man, these things are small, and wayyyyy faster than my P. Paradoxa. Not a very good photo, I know.



I also found four ootheca. I'm not sure what laid them, and if they are hatched already. They all have uniform holes. I'll be crushed if they are hatched already, but at least I got cool specimens for my collection. Standard house key for scale.



I also found those weird things with the more standard ootheca. I'm not sure what they are, but I was hoping you guys would know something. They look too small to be ootheca but they do look organic.

There isn't an official g. grisea caresheet, I've searched for them on the forum and read the previous topics, but does anyone have any tips for their care? I've heard they are tricky and I've only had experience with P. Paradoxa (although I've had zero problems with them).

Nice find, just add pieces of bark to the enclosure.

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=29060&hl=%2Bgonatista+%2Bgrisea#entry237925

Nice, congrats on the mantid nymphs

Sorry, the 4 ooths however have all been hatched, there is nothing left. Judging by their looks, and complete lack of hatching "strings" and such they are a few seasons old too. If you find holes in the hatching area of a ooth they are empty and have hatched. Holes in a ooth anywhere else especially along the sides/back are from parasitic wasps that hatched.

CosbyArt said:

Nice, congrats on the mantid nymphs

Sorry, the 4 ooths however have all been hatched, there is nothing left. Judging by their looks, and complete lack of hatching "strings" and such they are a few seasons old too. If you find holes in the hatching area of a ooth they are empty and have hatched. Holes in a ooth anywhere else especially along the sides/back are from parasitic wasps that hatched.

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Thanks! Although that is a bummer. I'll have to go back sometime and see if I see any fresh ones.The other four little things, do you have any idea what they are? They are made of ootheca like material, but I think maybe they are too uniform to be ootheca?

vulturette said:

Thanks! Although that is a bummer. I'll have to go back sometime and see if I see any fresh ones.The other four little things, do you have any idea what they are? They are made of ootheca like material, but I think maybe they are too uniform to be ootheca?

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Your welcome, I was the same when I found my first wild ooths, it is a let down. Keep at it though you are bound to find some from this season not hatched.

I am not sure what those other white ones are, various searches turned up nothing either for me. You should seal them in a jar if you want to hold onto them, so they will not hatch all over your room just in case.

CosbyArt said:

Your welcome, I was the same when I found my first wild ooths, it is a let down. Keep at it though you are bound to find some from this season not hatched.

I am not sure what those other white ones are, various searches turned up nothing either for me. You should seal them in a jar if you want to hold onto them, so they will not hatch all over your room just in case.

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I used a list of all Florida mantids and checked what each of their ooths look like; none of them match. But they are definitely alive looking. So I sealed them away and I hope something cool hatches! Just not a mantis.

those are liturgusa not grisea!!!!!!!!!! last year i found an l1 nymph there at that exact same place but everyone thought it was grisea!!!

vulturette, can you take some clear pics of the mantids?

Most wild ooths u find have parasites because if we found them the wasps found them way before hahaha

The plot thickens! Here are some better photos of one of them. They are quick, but I dont think they are skittish! The one I tried photographing followed the flashlight I used for lighting around the container. Very cute!

Underside photo, I counted six segments, so female? The other one I think is a male (not pictured), and one instar bigger.



Side view



Back, a little more blurry.





Hope these are better.

Thanks. There is definitely something peculiar about them and they don't look quite right for G. grisea.

This is G. grisea of about the same instar:

Rick said:

Thanks. There is definitely something peculiar about them and they don't look quite right for G. grisea.

This is G. grisea of about the same instar:

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The butt on mine is too smooth, it doesn't have those notches on the segments. I have a list of florida mantids from the entomology school but none of them besides Grisea have the patterning. That's strange.

I've looked up many species and the Grisea appears the closest, depending on the nymph coloration. I never owned that species so I have no idea.

I did however turn up a guide of Florida mantids, seems there are 12 different species that can be found. So it looks like you have plenty of species you can get to keep you busy.

CosbyArt said:

I've looked up many species and the Grisea appears the closest, depending on the nymph coloration. I never owned that species so I have no idea.

I did however turn up a guide of Florida mantids, seems there are 12 different species that can be found.

So it looks like you have plenty of species you can get to keep you busy.

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Yeah, that's the guide I used. Grisea is the closest listed for sure. I guess the only way to be sure is to grow them up! It's a little stressful taking care of something without all the details. but I did find it outside so it can't be terribly hard to work with with my current room conditions.

vulturette said:

Yeah, that's the guide I used. Grisea is the closest listed for sure. I guess the only way to be sure is to grow them up! It's a little stressful taking care of something without all the details. but I did find it outside so it can't be terribly hard to work with with my current room conditions.

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Sounds like a perfect way to find out, just wait them out. Indeed they should be fine as many species are very similar in their basic needs - so simply keep them at room temperature, mist with water as needed and keep it fed with appropriate sized feeders. Of course if you have any problems just post in the forum.

It is in the genus liturgusa

they are very difficult with their breeding and many times have trouble feeding, although not always. The l1 nymphs are very tiny and need to eat spring-tails. They need lots of humidity so i would recommend lining the bottom of the container with damp paper towel.

mantiseater said:

It is in the genus liturgusa

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So does that mean it is invasive? Since it wasn't on the lists for Florida mantids. Or is it just newly discovered here? Where are you getting this information?

mantiseater said:

they are very difficult with their breeding and many times have trouble feeding, although not always. The l1 nymphs are very tiny and need to eat spring-tails. They need lots of humidity so i would recommend lining the bottom of the container with damp paper towel.

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I'm pretty sure they are past l1. They look big enough for fruit flies now, way bigger than my ghosts when they arrived. I bought a culture today, will report back when I have them in proper enclosures and have attempted feeding. I'm pretty sure I have a male and female, one instar apart. So probably won't be able to breed. But we shall see!

EDIT: Not sure if I can double post, so I'll update. They both are feeding on drosophila flies. Hurray! Little hunters.

Looking at this post: could my weird little things in the ootheca picture be liturgusa ootheca?? Should I start ordering springtails just in case? And that means that the liturgusa are now breeding in south florida, which I assume isn't good. I wonder how the heck they got here.

EDIT: where did the link go? http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9777&hl=liturgusa#entry56360