Another exciting find in the wild (baby edition)!

[TheBeesKnees]

Today is baby day, apparently. I have found two very young nymphs (L1 or L2) of, what I think, are two different species. I'm looking for second opinions.

This one, I found in my front garden today. I believe it is a Hierodula nymph:

And this one, I initially thought might have been another, younger Hierodiula--but I'm actually more convinced that it's a Pseudempusa Pinnapavonis! Which would be exciting, as I haven't yet come across this species until (possibly) now!:

Such itty bitty youngin's are very difficult to ID, but what do you guys think?

 

[Mantis Man13]

It look like Peacock mantis to me too, but only time will tell for sure. Where do you live in Asia?

 

[TheBeesKnees]

I live on Phuket island, in Thailand! It's a place where I seem to find something brand new, every day!

 

[jsorigami]

I looked up Phuket island.. That's breathtaking. The water around it looks so clear and the jungle looks so lush. Congrats on the find!

 

[PlayingMantis]

Happy baby day! You're so lucky to live in a place where you can find such a variety of native mantises. I also looked up Phuket Island - it is breathtakingly beautiful, like some sort of paradise, lol.

 

[TheBeesKnees]

Hehe Phuket is a kind of paradise for me, indeed!
There are a lot of expats here who don't like it, but they're generally the sort who come here hoping for "tropical britan/america/australia" and this place is so far away from anything even remotely western--the culture and sensibilities are completely different from that of western cultures. Different priorities, different ways of life--and a lot of white folks can't handle it for too long, it seems.
On the other hand, I love it! I love the culture, the people, and, of course, I love the bugs! Every day is exciting :]

Y'all should come visit. I'll let you pet my bugs! [/incentive]

 

[dmina]

Sounds like fun .. I will book my trip... (I wish)

Congrats on your find..

but I am not help, my dear... LOL Just nosey

I only kinda know the ones I have,

I have none of the ones mentioned so far...

 

[TheBeesKnees]

Alright, so..
my "peacock" mantises have reached L2 (I have three of them now)

They are hardly smaller, if at all, than my L2 heirodula sp. (suspected patellifera) nymph. Their shape is quite different; longer thorax, smaller abdomen, longer, thinner raptorials, larger eyes in relation to head size, etc.
They're wholly black and light brown striped on top--but their entire underside is really green. Like--hierodula green. I don't think "Green" is on the peacock color spectrum, at least not as far as I can tell from google searching for it...

I will take photos in the morning, but now I'm so confused. Some other Hierodula species, perhaps? Definitely not H. patellifera, though.
What other large mantis species are native to thailand?? Besides violins, chinese, dead leaves, giant asians, and peacocks?? (how many mantis species does this country have!?)

 

[Crazy4mantis]

I believe there is a wikipedia article with every mantis species in every country

 

[TheBeesKnees]

Here are some photos!:

This guy molted from this

And this guy

molted from this.

Both nymphs are the pretty much the same size, and so I assume they are the same instar? It may be worth noting that they were retrieved from the wild, from two very different locations, several kilometers apart. If I were to guess now, without seeing how different their previous forms were, I would say they're both Hierodula. That first one definitely is...
But am I right to be a little confused by this??
They looked so different prior to molting, but now the only difference I am seeing is coloration @___@ weird.
Thoughts??

 

[TheBeesKnees]

...do Rhombo nymphs look like this??? C'MON LITTLE GUYS, MOLT TO L3 I NEED TO KNOWWW.

 

[dmina]

They look cute... you know what they say about patience...

 

[TheBeesKnees]

Eeee It's a virtue that I have a severe lack of * n*!!

 

[yen_saw]

TheBeesKnees, nice find! The mantis is not peacock mantis (Pseudempusa pinnapavonis). This is L1 peacock mantis look

Just hatched....

Hours after hatching

What you have there could be Statilia sp.

 

[TheBeesKnees]

Thanks!! Yeah, I'm definitely convinced they're not peacock nymphs after all.
I'm not certain these are Statilia sp, either (but I certainly wouldn't cry if they were--my one and only Statilia girl passed away last month, and I've been itching to find another member of her lovely genus!). These little dudes are the same size as a standard L2 Hieordula nymph (where as I would have thought Statilia sp nymphs would be quite smaller. I'd be fairly certain that they are Hierodula nymphs if it weren't for the fact that their L1 appearance looked so different from the Hierodula hatchlings I've had before @__@ and their L2 coloration isn't something I've seen in the very young Hierodula sp. nymphs yet... But they could just be a different species of Hierodula that I haven't come across yet, or even more simply, a coloration that I just haven't observed in my housing conditions until now. I'm not savvy enough to know for sure.

Time will tell!
Grow my little pretties, grooowwww! Show us what you are!

 

[TheBeesKnees]

Mystery mantises have reached L3! Have a looksee!:

I was feeling pretty sure that I had Hierodula sp. during their L2 stage, but these colors are really throwing me for a loop. Look at the eyeballs on this one; they're fuscia!
The other thing throwing me for a loop is both of my mystery L3s insist on popping this defensive little pose:

which, while common in a few species I've raised--isn't something I've ever observed in any of the Hierodula I've had :T

I still don't think these are Statillia, though... Their heads are just too large. Statillia (nemoralis, at least) have ridiculous little pin-heads and hilarious little betty boop mouths haahaha! Even though I'd love for these to be statillia nymphs, I don't think it's in the cards for 'em...

 

[Extrememantid]

Starting to very much look like hierodula or Rhombodera

 

[TheBeesKnees]

I've never owned Rhombos, and so I hope that's what this might be!
I've had quite a few Hierodula though, and I am refraining from saying for sure that's what this is. If it's not, though--it sure is similar. But there are some key things about their behavior and some mild things about their appearance at this point that's really throwing me off @___@
My Hierodula are pretty fearless, but these guys are putting my positively ID'd Hierodula nymphs to shame with some of the prey items they're willing to tackle. I never thought anything could out-beef my Hierodula sp...

 

[yen_saw]

You're right TheKneeBees. Looks like Hierodula sp. now at L3, and growing fast too.