Bill Oehlke

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Griever

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Bill Oehlke is out of Canada and is a supplier(supposeably) of American saturniids(Giant Silkmoths). I guess he has different contractors here in the states that ship eggs, cocoons, and larvae to US buyers. Well my conundrum started about two weeks ago when I ordered 24 Actias luna eggs and sent payment through paypal 3-4 days later. About a week later I sent a cordial email asking about the status of my order and when i could expect my shipment to come, he said he would ship as soon as any pairings had happened(saying it would be any day now). Me being the gentleman that I am thinks this is acceptable and thinks nothing of it. Over two weeks later here I am without my eggs and i'm finding myself sending another cordial email. Is he just blowing smoke up my rear and giving me the runaround? I don't like it when people give me the runaround :angry: Has anyone else heard or dealt with this guy? Am I going to have to file a paypal complaint :angry:

 
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Ah, Griever, you good natured, trusting fellow! Anyone who accepts money for something they don't have, is a Shady Operator. Anyone who promises "any day now" and doesn't respond, is Even Shadier. Whern you send him Cordial Letter #2, I predict that he will have another plausible excuse ("my house justy burned down" or "Prince Edward Islad has been quarantined") but you still won't get what you payed for. This guy is all over the internet! I went to one of his sites (current, not a cache) and looked at the extremely bright (couldn't have been retouched, could it?) Citheronia regalis, "not yet confirmed for 2008," but I suspect that if you tried to buy some, your PayPal payment would be accepted.

Send him Cordial Note #3, cordially asking for yr money back, and see what happens!

 
Yeah, my 2nd cordial letter wasn't exactly as nice as the first :mellow: Although months back before I did sign up here at the mantid forum I was doing some browsing on some other insect related forums and briefly glazed over a dealer feedback complaint dealing with a Bill...................didn't think of the chances of it being the same Bill <_<

If this is the case I'm going to go out of my way to make his life heck and make sure more people know about him on other forums :D If you haven't noticed I'm new to the whole insect breeder/dealer purchasing dealio. I don't get it, what do these types of people hope to gain, are they hoping folks will forget about the 45 days to dispute a transaction, do they hope and try to blow smoke and beat around the bush till the 45 days is up? Oh well you live and ya learn.

 
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I have dealt with him. He was the one who supplied me with luna moth eggs this year and last year. He is not a bad guy. He gave me great eggs and my eggs from him are third instar now. One of his subcontractors in Michigan was supossed to send me eggs, but they didn't, so he decided to send me some of his eggs from Canada.

 
Bill Oehlke is the reputable center of the silkmoth universe for longer than I can remember. Before the internet made it so convenient to communicate back and forth, things were much different. Much business was done via snail mail and silkmoths don't always follow the kind of schedule that the modern/online hobby is used to. I have granted a rare request for Bill to post in his own feedback thread. I look forward to seeing how this is resolved.

 
Bill Oehlke is out of Canada and is a supplier(supposeably) of American saturniids(Giant Silkmoths). I guess he has different contractors here in the states that ship eggs, cocoons, and larvae to US buyers. Well my conundrum started about two weeks ago when I ordered 24 Actias luna eggs and sent payment through paypal 3-4 days later. About a week later I sent a cordial email asking about the status of my order and when i could expect my shipment to come, he said he would ship as soon as any pairings had happened(saying it would be any day now). Me being the gentleman that I am thinks this is acceptable and thinks nothing of it. Over two weeks later here I am without my eggs and i'm finding myself sending another cordial email. Is he just blowing smoke up my rear and giving me the runaround? I don't like it when people give me the runaround :angry: Has anyone else heard or dealt with this guy? Am I going to have to file a paypal complaint :angry:
Hi Jeffrey,

I am Bill Oehlke and was recently alerted by a friend that you posted some negative comments about me on a mantid forum.

My email records indicate my first correspondence with you was on March 19, 2009, when you indicated you would like to purchase a few Luna moth cocoons. You did not indicate your name or location in the email, did not specify a number of cocoons, but asked for a price quote.

I promptly replied on March 20, asking where you are located and how many you wanted and indicating that

shipping and handling depends on your location.

You replied on March 21, indicating you are in Washington state and that you were looking to purchase 6 Actias luna cocoons. You also asked if it is alright to send a check to the address that was given, and you supplied your name and shipping address as requested.

I did not hear from you again until I wrote on March 30, asking if you were still interested in the lunas. I had given you the price quote.

You replied on March 31, that you would probably be sending a personal check in the mail during the weekend, and requested a caresheet or information on care of lunas cocoons?"

I wrote back that I would not hold them for you unless I got something more committed than a "probably" and explained that we were nearing the end of their diapause.

You never sent a payment.

Next I heard from you on April 5 when you indicated you would like to purchase 24 Actias luna eggs. You indicated you could pay through paypal the moment any stock became available. You requested my Paypal info and a quote.

I replied promptly as I knew the eggs available at that particular time were already three day old eggs, but would still be okay to ship if they could be shipped immediately upon receipt of your prompt Paypal Payment. You had written that you could pay through paypal "the moment any stock became available".

I responded in the wee hours of the morning on Monday 6 Apr 2009, 2:46 am that eggs were available, provided the price quote and paypal info and questioned yur readiness to receive them in early April in Washington.

We must have different definitions of the word "moment" because your Paypal payment for the eggs did not arrive until April 9, four days after you were notified the eggs were available and I had no email from you confirming that you were indeed ready for them.

I first saw your email payment on April 10 as I was in bed when it arrived. I am on east coast and you are on west coast. The time lag is actually in your favour. I knew the Easter weekend was already upon us and the prospect of the eggs now seven days old sitting in the post office for the long weekend, might mean they would hatch in transit and be dead upon arrival. I knew there would be more eggs later, so rather than risk sending eggs that might yield dead caterpillars when you opened the envelope, I decided to wait for another batch which I felt would be imminent, based on info from shipper.

I have no control over the moths or over the weather and there were no immediate pairings whereby I could send you eggs.

On April 16 you wrote inquiring about the status of your order

I replied that eggs would be shipped from the next batch and that it could happen any day now. I also indicated I would email you when they get shipped, but cautioned that you would have to wait for next pairing.

I have no recollection of ever stating that it "would" happen any day, and I do have copies of most of our back and forth emails.

I have been in business for a very long time and am well aware of impact weather can have on availability. Although I received several emails from the Alabama supplier that females had emerged and pairings and eggs were expected, the anticipated pariings did not materialize.

On April 27 you wrote 1) reminding me that you had sent payment, 2) requesting an update on order status, 3) questioning why it was taking so long, and 4) requesting that

I provide a specific date on when you could expect them

I explained that I could not be more specific and explained why eggs had not been shipped earlier, and I beleive I offered a refund. I do not remember getting a reply until May 14.

On May 14 you wrote that you obtained the eggs elsewhere and that you would like a full refund for the money you paid through paypal.

on May 14, I sent you a refund of $18.00 US via paypal.

As you get more experience with moths you will probably understand better why eggs have to be shipped promptly after deposition. Had you sent the Paypal payment the "moment" you were notified stock was available, the eggs would have been shipped on May 6 and I suspect you would have had them May 8 or 9.

Lunas began flying in Alabama in March and some of my customers received eggs in March. Some received eggs in early April.

There were imminent opportunities for pairngs in the weeks that followed your payment, but the pairings just did not materialize. Sometimes stuff happens. You will probalby learn that lesson better as you get older.

Please note you changed my word could to would when you write "(saying it would be any day now)". Maybe you still have our correspondence and will find that at no time did I ever say it would be any day now. In the copy of the email I have the phrase is definitely ("could be any day now") I have too much experience and integrity to make false promises. I just do the best I can and a google.com search for Bill Oehlke will turn up over a thousand references and you will not find a negative comment unless your rant appears there now.

The first responder Philip Yuma bought into your misrepresentation I never promised "any day now", but you made it sound like I did.

Then you wrote a follow up posting on this site, casting aspersions on my name by attempting to link "a dealer feedback complaint dealing with a Bill...................didn't think of the chances of it being the same Bill If this is the case I'm going to go out of my way to make his life heck and make sure more people know about him on other forums If you haven't noticed I'm new to the whole insect breeder/dealer purchasing dealio. I don't get it, what do these types of people hope to gain, are they hoping folks will forget about the 45 days to dispute a transaction, do they hope and try to blow smoke and beat around the bush till the 45 days is up? Oh well you live and ya learn."

You were wrtiting these postings while you were still waiting for egg shipments from me. I am aware of unscrupulous dealers on the internet, and can understand your

concern. I am cautious as well and that is why I don't ship to first time customers until I have received payment. Repeat customers often receive shipments in advance of payment. Many WLSS members order eggs of various species that will be available at different times and send one payment at end of shipping season once we know for sure

what they were able to have shipped.

However, before running my name through the mud, you could have done a Google search for my name.

You could have asked on this forum if anyone had had previous dealings with me without casting the negative aspersions. You could have asked for a refund. You would have received one immediately.

I did send a Paypal refund to you immediately on May 14 the day that you requested it and wished you good luck with the eggs.

My reputation is a good one.

Yes, I do have twelve subcontractors in US who ship under my label. I have been working with most of them for many years. The understanding is that they will receive their payment for shipping at the end of the shipping season. They trust me to do so and a couple already have running totals of over $500.00 US that will be mailed to them at end of egg shipping season.

The entire east coast had a cool wet spring and lunas that would typically be flying in mid to late April in Virginia and New Jersey (two other states where I have shippers) did not start to provide eggs for me until after you cancelled your order. Just after you cancelled, eggs again became available.

If you have any integrity, you'll do the right thing.

I don't deal with mantids so probably not too many people on this forum know me. The only one that has done business with me, stuck up for me. The other believed your comments. Most recently one of the moderators has stuck up for me.

Show this to your parents and ask them what they think. I am sixty years old and have never "soiled" another man's reputation as you have mine.

I am surprised that you did not post to this thread that you did indeed receive a prompt refund of your money the very day it was requested. Hope you will do so now.

No threats from you were required to get your refund.

I made efforts to get the eggs for you. I responded promptly to your emails. I refunded promptly and lost the paypal traansaction fee in doing so.

To find your negative comments were posted behind my back during a transaction is a bit surprising.

Bill Oehlke

 
Bill, If I ever get into moths, I'll come find you first. You sound like an outstanding businessman.

 
This is the email I sent in response to Bill's discursive email.

Bill,

It is simply a case of inadequate and lacking customer service plain and simple. At no point AFTER my April 9th payment was I notified that the eggs might be quite a while in their possible arrival. There were no courtesy emails, no notification, and no communication on your part. I had to email you each and every single time to get ANY information on the status of my order. Receiving information on its status should not have been like pulling teeth. I shouldn’t have to wait weeks with no correspondence from you, sporadically making e-mails to get information. If there is an issue you should inform the customer.

Also do you understand how 36 days after my payment and responses like *and I quote* “Eggs wil be shipped from the next batch. It could happen any day now” look? and product no show and weak short responses from you look? It looks very suspect, if you had simply taken the effort and e-mailed me any information regarding the issues you were having with your contractor it would have surely satiated any apprehension I was having with the transaction. Receiving this information after the fact helps no one.

All this business about my not mentioning that I got a refund or resolution on the forum is due to the fact that I simply do not use or post on their forums anymore and haven’t done so for quite some time. These things happen; people simply stop using forums all the time. If the effort or spirit should so move you, you are more than welcome to e-mail the people over on the mantid forum and have my post deleted, you have my permission.

It is irrelevant how big or small an order is customer service should be the priority. What matters here is that there was unsatisfactory customer service and poor follow up on your part. Do not e-mail me with you’re grievances anymore I am not interested, you are on my ignore list.

Regards,

Jeff

I have dealt with quite a few insect dealers and vendors and have nothing but good things to say about them, but have never had to await for an order for over a month without at least a courtesy email from them about their delayed status. If I had not emailed you the initial inqury of its status on April 16th I probably wouldn't have even heard anyting for at least a month.

Each time I emailed you concerning its status I got a very vague questionable 2-4 sentence explanation like "oh, there were no pairings yet" and “Eggs wil be shipped from the next batch.It could happen any day now I will email you when they get shipped.have to wait for the next pairing" (this was said mid April) I finally got my refund May 14th. If you had simply disclosed some meager details of the correspondence from you and you're contracter rather than unload this information on me after the fact in you're reply email, this would have alleviated my trepidation about my purchase.

*these are all you're communications with you're contractor reguarding the eggs*

April 7: "I had a new luna female eclose yesterday but she didn't get a mate last night. The other female died without laying more eggs. I have packaged 2 dozen of the eggs laid in April for xxxx and will mail them today."

April 8 she wrote, "Eggs mailed and the postage is 83 cents. By the way the luna that eclosed was a male not a female. Ha Ha. My son didn't look at the luna well enough."

April 9 she wrote, "The control eggs that were laid on 3/26 hatched 2 days ago. The others haven't hatched yet. This is the eggs that were sent in the order to Portugal and South Carolina."

April 16 she wrote, "The control eggs from the last luna shipment have hatched. We are supposed to have pleasant weather for several days so we will run the lights tonight. I'll let you know if we get anything with eggs. Only one cecropia has eclosed so far and her eggs have started hatching. Still wat ching the others but you know what they say "A watched pot never boils"."

April 19 she wrote, "Bill, I have been at a family reunion and last night 6 cocoons eclosed. I don't feel safe shipping these now. I put three females out and 3 males out but no one mated. I'll try again tonight so I'll have eggs for you."

Don't you think this information could have proved useful? If you had simply elaborated a little bit more on this situation in at least one of you're responses I would have understood.

I am not sure how you treat customers with small orders or if larger accounts take more precedence. Yes I was satisfied with my refund, and you can dissect this response all you want but the fact of the matter is I was not satisfied with the customer service. I'm sure there are others who can recommend business with you, from my own experience I cannot.

 
Jeffrey Martindale,

You did not have to wait a month for a reply from me. You were told in our intitial correspondence that eggs would be shipped after receipt of payment. You promised to send

payment by Paypal the "moment" you were notified eggs were available. Is that true?

I notified you on April 6 in the wee hours of the morning that eggs were available. You did not send payment as you had indicated you would. You waited for some reason until April 9. Is that true? Who was remiss in following through?

I read notice of the payment on April 10 which is Good Friday. By then, as explaiined above it was too late to send the eggs I had notified you were available on April 6. April 11 was Saturday, April 12 Sunday, April 13 Easter Monday.

You also did not answer my request on April 6 as to whether or not you were ready for them at any time between date I notified you they were available (April 6) date you sent payment (April 9) and date of your next email to me (April 16). So I did not know if you are ready for them or not (lack of communication on whose part?). I am faced with prospect of postal delays over long weekend, a customer in one of the northern states who has not indicated whether he is ready to receive eggs yet or not, and some difficulties getting fresh eggs. I am not sure if US postal service operates on Good Friday or on Easter Monday in US, but I am sure they are not open on Sundays.

Had I not received your email on April 16, only two days after fresh eggs might have been sent on Tuesday April 14, I would have sent you an email that the expected pairings did not materialize.

I replied very promptly to your email of April 16 on April 16 with this reply: "Jeffrey,

Eggs wil be shipped from the next batch. It could happen any day now. I will email you when they get shipped. have to wait for next pairing."

At least now I know that you are expecting them/ready for them.

I could have written you emails each time my supplier wrote me and indicated she had a female out and each time she was not successful in getting a pairing, but that might have seemed like a bunch of excuses as alluded to by Phil in Yuma. I knew there was plenty of time to still get eggs for you and was standing by my April 16 reply (one week after your delinquent payment) that I would notify you when they got shipped, having to wait for next pairing to occur.

Eleven days later on April 27 you sent another email:

"It has now been over two weeks since I sent you $18.00 US through paypal for some Actias Luna eggs. What exactly is the status of my order now? What is taking so long? I would like a specific date on when I can expect them shipped to me."

I also responded promptly to that email, probably the same day or on April 28. Feel free to post my entire response. I advised you of problems with weather, indicated that no pairings had occured, indicated you could cancel your order and get a refund, think I even explained that if you cancelled within a certain number of days from initial

payment that full refund could be had without loss of paypal transaction fee by me, and explained that eggs were still expected and would be sent when they became available.

So from April 9 til April 27 you had two quick responses from me advising you that eggs could only be shipped when available and that weather and moths had much to do with that.

I guess you got suspicious that I was a scam artist and on April 27 you posted your first comments about me on this forum. You did not indicate you wished to cancel your order when I asked if you wanted to?? You did not ask for a Paypal refund in April after I had asked you if you wanted one??

You did not ask for a paypal refund until May 14 and I sent you one on May 14.

I responded to every single one of your emails either on the same day or within one day of receipt. I made no promises I did not keep. true or not true??

On the other hand you did promise to send payment the "moment" you received notice of availability. That did not happen.

I asked if you were ready to receive them in early April, and you never replied to that question.

You were offered the option of cancelling your order and getting a Paypal refund in April. You did not reply to that until May 14 when you notified me you had made arrangemenst to get eggs from another source. I said thanks for notification and wished you good luck with them.

All orders I receive (large or small) are filled in approximately the same sequence as they have been received. I record the incoming orders on spread sheets

in the order in which they arrive. Names, quantities and species requested go across the page in rows.

As soon as I receive notice that eggs are available from one of my subcontractors, I go to the first name on the list and see who is ready for them. Those orders are dispatched, large or small, in order from top of list down to those who would be ready for them.

Many people from northern states place their orders early, well before they are ready to receive eggs. They want to be near the top of the list.

Sometimes they indicate with their initial March or April order that they will not be ready until late May or mid June at the earliest. Sometimes they do not indicate a date when they would be ready so I send them an email as I sent you asking when they

would be ready to recieve eggs. They respond and I enter that info on my spread sheets.

You are in Washington, a northern state, and so I wrote on April 6: "Jeffrey,

Luna eggs are available now from Alabama as are cecropia eggs, but I doubt you are ready for them?

They will be available off and on throughout the season as I work with a number of breeders in US who ship under my label."

Please note this is an exact quote. Notice the words "off and on". Notice the questionmark after "I doubt you are ready for them?"

Feel free to post your email where you responded to that question.

I still maintain that if you had sent your Paypal payment as indicated when you wrote: "I can pay through paypal the moment any stock becomes available,"

that you would have received the eggs that were available at the time.

I still maintain that I replied accurately and promptly to all of your emails. When you asked for a specific date, I was upfront and advised you that I could not give one as

much depended on the moths and the weather.

I was not aware of your April 27 posting to this forum until mid June. Hence there was no pressure/threat to provide the Paypal refund you requested on May 14.

When you requested it (May 14), I sent it on the same day.

I maintain you could have ascertained comments about my credibility by doing a google search for Bill Oehlke.

You could have asked for comments about my credibilty on this forum or on other forums by mentioning my name without the misleading comment that you wrote where

you indicated I said eggs would be shipped any day. I had indicated that eggs could be available any day, but you would have to wait for next pairing, and that eggs were

available on an "off and on basis throughout the season."

Then you put out another post on this forum indicating you had read about another Bill xxxxxxx, couldn't remember his last name, but wink wink, probably the same guy who was a scammer.

You ran my name through the mud without any notice to me,

and you did it before cancelling the order or before requesting the refund which you received promptly.

Again, I realize you are young and it may take a while before you realize what you have done. I am an honest business man who responded promptly and accurately to all

your emails. I did my best to try to obtain what you requested. Your threats to spread the "word" shows that you know how much damage to a person's name can be done by such actions. The fact that you did not post another note to this forum when you received a prompt refund of full amount and your reason for not posting that clarification

speaks volumes. You also have not addressed what happened with the original cocoon order???

I got no response from you when I wrote I needed a firmer commitment than "probably".

When someone does request a species that is expected but not guaranteed, as were regalis in 2008 (Phil in Yuma), I actually request that they not send payment until after I notify them eggs are ready. For first time customers, Paypal is a necessity as there are just as many or more scammers on the buying end of business as there are on selling end. waiting for a payment to arrive via the mail before sending eggs usually means eggs are to far advanced for shipping.

For those people who do send a check in advance, the check is not cashed by me until the supplies or livestock has been shipped.

That has always been my business practice. I stand behind my name, Bill Oehlke.

 
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