Community Mantids - Back at it again

[Loops117]

So, i was reading the different reasons to why Phyllocrania paradoxa (Ghost Mantis) and Gongylus gongylodes (Wandering violin mantis) are communal, and i can't help but think about putting them together.

P.paradoxa  doesn't each other because of their hunting habits. They prefer smaller foods and shy from larger.

G.gongylodes doesn't eat each other because they're strictly flying insect eaters.

So with this being said, can the two live together in one large setup? The Gongys will be larger than the ghost mantids, so the ghosts wont try to eat them. And the gongys shouldn't try eating anything walking around? 

Someone please correct me if im wrong on any of this.

 

[Sarah K]

The first thing that comes to mind when I read this post is the difference between the environmental conditions required of each species. Ghosts do best in temperatures 70F to 80 F and Wandering violins require heat and should be kept at temperatures above 90F. From my experience, 90F is way too hot for ghosts. 

 

[Loops117]

The community tank they will be in is rather large, and will have areas that are not as hot as others. Both my heat lamps and rocks won't be able to heat the entire tank to a solid 90 degrees. Do you think the mantids will be smart enough to stick to areas that are within their temperature range? Granted the heat lamps will be on regulators so it's not always going to be a constant beam of heat.

That's the tank i'll be using for this setup. I'll have 20"x48"x19" worth of air space for plants, sticks, and twigs. The heat lamps will be on one side of the setup while a normal plant light is over the other. I'm hoping by doing this, i will supply a wide enough range of heat for multiple species of insects, not just the two mantids.

 

[T.C.]

Hey loops! Didnt know you were active here. :huh:  Why don't you just stick with ghost mantids? There is lots of other bugs you could put in a communal tank. Do you REALLY need to have two mantid species in there? 

 

[Loops117]

i do tho. If it's anywhere close to possible, ill do it.

 

[Sarah K]

I'm not sure your ghosts will be smart enough to stay away from the heat, as almost every species of mantis likes to hang at the top of the enclosure no matter whay, which is probably where you would have the heat lamp.

 

[Loops117]

oh man, i thought they would be smart enough to move away from something that's too hot for them.

 

[Sarah K]

I mean, i don';t know for sure, but I know when I had a veiled chameleon it sat too close to it's heat lamp and burned it's veil, and the top of it's back.

 

[Loops117]

hmm. When i had my ghost mantid setup, their lamp was directly ontop of the setup. I would often catch my male mantis sitting directly under the bulb (which im assuming was hotter then 95 degrees) and he lived a long, healthy life. Granted he wasnt able to fertilize my female, but he definetly tried. Not sure if that could have been the cause, just know it didnt give any visual side effects on the insect.

 

[Sarah K]

hmm. When i had my ghost mantid setup, their lamp was directly ontop of the setup. I would often catch my male mantis sitting directly under the bulb (which im assuming was hotter then 95 degrees) and he lived a long, healthy life. Granted he wasnt able to fertilize my female, but he definetly tried. Not sure if that could have been the cause, just know it didnt give any visual side effects on the insect.

From my experience, I had no problems with adding extra heat to my male ghost enclosures, but I did lose a female once when I kept her in higher temps.  I have also read that if you keep females on the warmer side, they produce much smaller ootheca. Ever since I lost my female from the heat though, I have kept my females in cooler areas of the house, which only get up to 75F at the warmest. I have not had any other problems  with them since, and all my females have lived long healthy lives for many generations!

 

[Loops117]

So the current issue is heat, and mainly with the male gongys after their final molt. I could take the males out before hand for 2 weeks and put them in a setup of their own with temps they require.  I believe this is good practice with Ghost mantids for inducing mating, so i'm sure it would work with the gongys (correct me if im wrong). If i go that route, i can keep the setup at roughly 95 degrees at it's hottest point from a heat lamp with the temp lowering as the distance from the light grows.

But then again, the gongys need high heat in order to molt properly. I would like to do a little further research on that and check out individual cases when it comes to temps and molting.

 

[Savechanges]

Maybe if you have a basking bulb in one corner but that's pretty risky. I will throw an older female ghost in with my adult gongys. If I lose her the answer is NO!!!!

 

[Loops117]

Thank you very much. If you guys feel as if it can't be done, then i'll abandon the idea and just stick to just one species.

 

[Savechanges]

I have an adult female in with my gongys now ... I will let you know what happens. She is old so if she gets ate no harm no foul but still a no lol

 

[Loops117]

lol, i completely understand. Other then the heat, i couldnt imagine having much of an issue. All the research i've done for gongys pretty much says the same as the dedicated care sheet we have on this site, and that's that they're strictly flying insect eaters, but they may take walking food if hungry enough.

 

[Savechanges]

Feed them well. I have noticed all Nymphs no matter what species will eat each other. Ghosts eat each other a a lot when babies. I have had this happen with gongys as well. What instar would the ghosts be?

 

[Ranitomeya]

Although they prefer flying prey, they can and do feed on crawling prey. I have both species and feed my mantises roaches--I can tell you that crawling prey is not ignored. I have also experienced cannibalism in both species. Some will grow faster than the others and will prey on the smaller individuals. Keeping them well-stocked will prey at all times can help reduce the incidence of cannibalism, but will not always eliminate cannibalism. Mixing a larger species with a smaller species is also probably going to end with the smaller species getting eaten. Another thing to keep in mind is that adult females are also much more aggressive feeders than both juveniles and males.

 

[Savechanges]

Gongy female attacked and ate the adult female ghost don't do it 

 

[Connor]

Gongy female attacked and ate the adult female ghost don't do it 

Oh geez... I've been following this post for a while... so sorry to hear about her, too bad the community tank won't work..