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After a month of wait and a DIY enclosures my mantis arrived at home. I have 3M and 3F from ghost mantis and 6 c.gematus (too small to sexing them). 

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I took them to their new home with no touching them and gave some hydei flies. Some are resting on the top and i would like to know if they were about to molt i must remove the flies or they will not hurt them anyway??

Some of them are still on their first enclosure because i noticed a color change and they are not moving, so maybe that ones are molting for sure... (i will move them just to the heat).

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They are so wonderful...

 
Hello and congrats on your beautiful new friends!

In regards to your question, fruit flies are generally considered pretty harmless towards mantids, and can usually be kept in the enclosure even while the mantid molts.  My only concern would be if your enclosure had slick/flat ceilings where the mantid could possibly get spooked or knocked down by a running fruit fly.  As long a you have something the mantid can get a good grip on while they molt, you should be ok!  =)

 
I could never imagine how different between them they are, they are amazing!

I gave them some flies yesterday but im not able to see if they are eating or not... Are they able to catch a hydei fly on a 37oz cup? I think the man who sold me the mantis was feeding them with crickets, i hope to see them eating flies soon :)

 
Here is what I usually tell people about the size of the mantis enclosure:  it really depends on how attentive you are.  Most people will say that you want an enclosure that is only about 2 - 3 times the size of your mantid.  But in my experience if you are paying close attention to them and making sure they are eating what you put in, a bigger cup should be fine.  However, if you are busy and you usually just toss in the flies and go about your business, you may want to put them in a smaller container, as it is possible that the flies will die off before the mantid sees them.  The other thing to consider is what is inside the cup, if you have a big 32oz cup with almost nothing in it, it's a lot more likely the mantid will see it's food.   If there is a lot of sticks, substrate, etc then they may not see them or the flies might hide out.  I would put at least 2 or 3 flies in each time you feed.

Lastly, just pay close attention to your mantid's abdomen.  If it ever starts to look very thin (like paper thin) then they are in danger of starving and need to be fed right away.  If it does get to that point you can put them into a small container with a fly to make sure they eat.

 
Thank you for your answer. They are on a deli cup just with a stick and a paper towel down. I gave them a few flies yesterday (they ate the day before yesterday a cricket) and i saw right now a small redish circles so maybe thats  because they ate something. Their abdomen looks pretty big so they are ok. I will try to post more pics later, but the gemmatus loves tu jump and run so is not easy... hahaha

 
I made 3 pictures with the worst quality ever, but i dont want to disturb them... i can spend all day long looking at them, but not close to them... haha

They can reach the prey easily, but maybe they ate a lot... haha

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Mistery solved, it looks like some of them are molting... sorry for answering to myself hahaha.

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Nice! Looks like you got it figured out.  One thing I would mention is that crickets usually aren't recommended for a mantis as any regular part of their diet.  They don't seem to be very healthy for them, and they also are known to be pretty aggressive and attack mantids/other crickets.  Most people will say to give them sparingly at most, but I avoid them completely, as I don't like to take any chances, and there are so many feeder options available.

Keep up the good work!

 
One thing I would mention is that crickets usually aren't recommended for a mantis as any regular part of their diet.  They don't seem to be very healthy for them, and they also are known to be pretty aggressive and attack mantids/other crickets.  Most people will say to give them sparingly at most, but I avoid them completely, as I don't like to take any chances, and there are so many feeder options available.
Really? What reliable or scientific source links do you have to backup and prove anything you said regarding crickets? I have found only the opposite results from personal experience and in scientific articles and others regarding crickets, which I will link to below.

One such person who was negative of crickets too, actually tried them and found out otherwise, see "Are Crickets Bad For Mantids?".

As this seems to be a more common stance given by new members, or passed along online elsewhere too, I find it is worth taking the time at this point to dispel such rampant misinformation. Senior mantid and other exotic pet keepers are tired of responding to such posts and no longer will bother - so I am writing this up to also link to for such future use.

One thing I would mention is that crickets usually aren't recommended for a mantis as any regular part of their diet
To the contrary - Yes crickets are a recommended regular part, or whole, of mantid diets. Crickets are provided by many keepers, myself included several years now, and some members in the 10 to 20+ years range too. The only exception to that is in mantid species that need flying prey, information that is available in their caresheets. Again that is due to species hunting behavior and is not due to the cricket itself.

I've raised thousands of mantids (counting those sold/traded/given away, breeding sets, natives released, and such besides hundreds of pets) on crickets exclusively at times, as many others have too. Of course when possible I vary mantid feeders, but I do that from the standpoint who wants to eat the same meal everyday of their life - rather than a issue with crickets.

There are many such cricket posts on the forum, here is a generic search. However, here are just a few such members that use cricket feeders, and others in the topics listed too...



The only forum source I could find in regards to "usually aren't recommended" would possibly be the beginners guide created by Peter in general to all mantid species.

The guide is aimed at beginners, and as such would likely feed crickets right after pet store purchasing which can be a issue. Or feed crickets to any possible mantid species, again some species only eat flying prey. Peter says, "Crickets are ok, but I'd be careful with them. Pet store crickets should be transferred to a healthy diet for at least 48 hours, before feeding to your mantids. It's not terribly important, but a mantis is what it eats!".

Which I guess if taken out of context can make some think a cricket is inferior or problematic. To the contrary it states that the cricket should receive proper husbandry care that way it is gut-loaded, properly nourished, and in normal behavior. Of course a starving malnourished cricket with a empty gut would be what a mantid could eat if husbandry care is not done, and not recommended for anything - crickets included.

I do know he too buys crickets, but private messages and emails do not make linkable sources. ;)

They don't seem to be very healthy for them
Crickets nutrition as feeders is in instances better, or on par, compared to other feeders. For a easy to view online table source see here, or for more details review the original scientific article here. Not only are other links given to more data from the table, it shows other common feeders and how they rate as well so that should dispel other claims as well.

Of course if you feed your cricket a more nutritional diet, they will pass that along to the mantid as well and be a even better feeder. See the article, "Comparison of Diets for Mass-Rearing Acheta domesticus..." for further details. Not only are they great for mantids, they are for nearly any animal including humans. See the last article or, "Nutritional and sensory quality of edible insects" for related details.

they also are known to be pretty aggressive and attack mantids
Rarely if ever. Aggression is beyond overrated and in most cases nearly non-existent for a animal that is about to be eaten alive.

For this to be a problem that the mantid would not simply attack/kill/eat such a cricket is if the feeder is not appropriate sized - that is much too big. In such a case a cricket can turn the tables and hurt a mantid. From Peter's guide, "If you look at the forelegs of your mantis (the front, grasping "arms"), their size should help you gauge the appropriate prey-size. The mantis must be able to hold the prey in its arms. There is some room for error in this method, as mantises will often take down prey smaller and/or larger than their "ideal" prey, but you will learn through experience.".

Some various cricket species are naturally more aggressive such as the field crickets (Gryllus sp.), see here for a species list and simple attributes. The most common species Acheta domesticus and the recent Gryllodes sigillatus however, with basic husbandry care are not aggressive to mantids (even if molting, as I have experienced multiple times).

The husbandry care crickets receive has an affect of course, and an animal that is not properly fed or watered (like those from pet stores) are typically dehydrated, starving, and kept in overcrowded tanks which makes them more aggressive than normal. At that point they are trying to survive and can be aggressive or injure a mantid, just like any animal in those conditions.

To remove such abuse and aggression from the crickets, bought from a pet store or improperly cared for, they should be kept properly 48 hours before being used as a feeder. A adequate cricket tank with food/water/space is enough to remove the problems that are causing such aggression. See, "Breeding and Raising the House Cricket", "Methods for rearing the house cricket..." among many others for details.

For more aggression related details see, "Behavior of the House Cricket, Acheta domesticus" which has some good information and even better links for more behavior/aggression articles.

In cricket aggression to mantids again searching past posts shows it is a rare event in witnessed/proven cases, not simply assumed/blamed. If seen is a sign of other problems typically with the mantid, often sick/injured/dying. In such instances even "cleaning crews" such as isopods can be harmful to such mantids. A normal exception is during the mantid molting process, where crickets can take advantage of the situation, but personally I have not had that problem even during a molt.

I think the below post says it best, as no normal mantid would allow a cricket to attack to start with...





they also are known to be pretty aggressive and attack mantids/other crickets
In attacking or cannibalizing other crickets that is often a husbandry care issue again; rather commonly from overcrowding, lack of resources (food/water), or similar issues. Like any animal crickets will do what it can to survive, and weak or dead cricket tank mates are easy targets if needed.

Cricket to cricket aggression can also be from them competing for mates, as is done with any animal. This cricket mating behavior however does not carry over towards humans or mantids. For details see "Behavior of the House Cricket, Acheta domesticus".

 
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Thank you so much for the information. The cricket they fed it wasnt mine, the breeder who sold me use to give them

I was reading on caresheets that too much cricket could constipate my creobroter so they are feeding on Hydei (i think they could be on L3/4) till next week, that i will buy some Lucilia, i think they are really big for them, but i will try... they are feeding Hydei with both hands.

 
Really? What reliable or scientific source links do you have to backup and prove anything you said regarding crickets?
Not trying to provide scientifically proven facts here, just relaying what I have heard mentioned in almost every place that I have read about feeding mantids.  Again these are mostly other breeders/hobbyists so I'm sure their info wasn't scientifically backed either necessarily.  I've never heard the part about "prepping" them for 48 hours after buying, but I guess that makes sense.  Maybe the place I got them from was taking bad care of them, but they always seem way more aggressive to me than the other feeders I have, and I keep them all pretty well fed. 

However, even the articles that are for feeding crickets, there still seems to be some ifs ands or buts.  My main point was that if there are any risks at all, I'd rather avoid them, but maybe there isn't.    

Either way, I wasn't trying to peddle bad information.  I'll certainly do some more research after hearing your thoughts Thomas.

 
Thank you so much for the information. The cricket they fed it wasnt mine, the breeder who sold me use to give them

I was reading on caresheets that too much cricket could constipate my creobroter so they are feeding on Hydei (i think they could be on L3/4) till next week, that i will buy some Lucilia, i think they are really big for them, but i will try... they are feeding Hydei with both hands.
I seen that in the caresheet about constipation and is rather odd. My Creobroter pictipennis mantids didn't encounter cricket constipation, but did prefer flying prey if given a choice. The species is also one of those some consider a flying prey mantid, see the caresheet here.

Ghost mantids (Phyllocrania paradoxa) on the other hand eagerly eat about any prey (flying or crawling) like most mantid species. My several Ghost mantids through the years always seem to like smaller prey though, but more of them. I guess it gave them more exercise as they do love to sit like a statue usually. :)

Not trying to provide scientifically proven facts here, just relaying what I have heard mentioned in almost every place that I have read about feeding mantids.  Again these are mostly other breeders/hobbyists so I'm sure their info wasn't scientifically backed either necessarily.  I've never heard the part about "prepping" them for 48 hours after buying, but I guess that makes sense.  Maybe the place I got them from was taking bad care of them, but they always seem way more aggressive to me than the other feeders I have, and I keep them all pretty well fed. 

However, even the articles that are for feeding crickets, there still seems to be some ifs ands or buts.  My main point was that if there are any risks at all, I'd rather avoid them, but maybe there isn't.    

Either way, I wasn't trying to peddle bad information.  I'll certainly do some more research after hearing your thoughts Thomas.
That was what I thought when I saw the post, and sadly is rampantly passed around as you mention. Interestingly enough some sites even copy and paste the same information complete with grammatical errors intact, or the same points in the same order. I'm not saying I am great at grammar, just simply how easy it is to observe.

Nearly all pet stores are notorious for lack of care, especially concerning crickets that they buy for a penny apiece or even less. I can understand if the cricket contact from the pet store turning you off, and is likely the biggest aspect of the feeder notoriety they receive too. After a bit of husbandry care they are a different beast, and funny enough if I didn't keep anything anymore my wife would likely make me keep crickets as she loves the chirping. :D

Glad to hear you are open to researching the feeder. If you do keep them and decide they are not for you (rather it be their chirping, or whatever) I can respect that. Having a large range of feeders, even non-convention ones, has it's place for various reasons.

That is one great aspect of the forum, ideas/posts/topics are expressed and we all learn. I'll likely always be a noob on many aspects, and I'm okay with that as I learn something new; otherwise, I doubt the hobby would be as fun and exciting if it was the same ole' thing. Having such a huge variety of mantid species, and other possible exotic pets, doesn't hurt either. ;)

 
Maybe could hear silly but im afraid of my little pigs (they eat sooo much...) because they could run fast and get hurt so i tried to do some pics. Could you tell me what L they could be aprox? This ones are 1 sheed bigger than the rest. Sorry about the quality :)

C.gemmatus, they are little fierces but gentle when i open the lid. Maybe L4? In first pic you can see an Hydei and my gemmatus... are they ready to eat bottleflies?

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P.paradoxa are more quiet than the gemmatus, i could think they eat less too. Could be L4?

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I bought yesterday 100gr of asticot flies. The larvas are on the fridge and i take out some. I hope they make theire pupae and see the flies soon.... Can i feed them with agave syrup? (i dont use honey)

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