Two Females that Worry Me. . .

Mantidforum

Help Support Mantidforum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Curiosity

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
170
Reaction score
32
Location
Northern Idaho
Their names are Klara and Peridot. Both are doing the limp noodle routine - if I put them down, they sort of go facedown on the floor. They're both green Europeans, and it's been a few days since I sprayed either one of them. But Klara has had plenty of water (and also some milk - I was experimenting with what mantises will and will not eat) in the meantime; there's no dehydration factor for her. I became concerned about both of them when they suddenly lost their ability to cling to fabric - in Peridot's case, she couldn't get a grip on coarse tulle. On the same day. (Oct 11) I have different suspicions about what may be causing it though. Some of their symptoms are similar, others are not.

Here is a two column Venn diagram of their symptoms:

Klara

Oddly soft abdomen

Still, unless prompted

Lying in a mantid equivalent to a prone position

No discoloration

Has only had 1 ½ houseflies in the last several weeks; mostly lived off of moths

I’ve lost the paper I wrote the dates on; I think she became an adult in late July, have had her since L6

Peridot

Slightly abnormally hard abdomen

Was trying to move until about an hour ago

Lying on her side

Her face is sort of dark grey. Also, one of her legs came off. . . I don’t know when, must have been in the last 48 hours. Anyway, it came off at the uppermost joint and what is left has turned black

Has mostly lived off of houseflies for a week or two

Found her as an adult, has had her for about a month

Um. For Klara, normal behavior includes hanging upside down on the fabric glued to the top of her cage mostly limp. I mean, if I take off the lid and flip it before she can react, she sinks into a completely prone position, implying that she was exerting no effort to stay in any position but was just hanging on and letting gravity do whatever. She has three working tarsi; one was lost to, I suspect but can't prove, ants. The other three don't seem to stick anymore though. She can't cling. She will try to move as normal if prompted but is mostly still, and when she moves it is clear she has become more disabled. Due to a mismolt her wings are deformed and her "arms" are paralyzed; not sure that's important. My mother has suggested that this might just be age manifest, and I am inclined to agree with her, as this is sort of an extreme form of an already typical behavior. Klara has been low energy since the last few days of July, I think the time was, about the time she became an adult. Now she just doesn't move. I do see how that could be age exacerbating a preexisting condition. As I said, she became L8 in late July. Is that a normal timeline for a mantis to grow old? My 6 healthy ones, whose age vary by about 3 weeks, all seem just fine, not old at all. Is this probably just a natural process, or is it a note of something I did wrong?

OK, Peridot. Perry's normal behavior is moderate energy. She has only two functional tarsi; the first gone one was lost in the wild and I accidentally clipped the second one closing her cage. So her cage is now topped with green tulle. She can't grip on that. Like Klara, she was perfectly healthy on Oct 10; unlike Klara, she has much higher standards for "healthy". She has, as mentioned above, been living off of flies for a couple weeks and has some facial discoloration, so I believe she may be sick. Is this likely true? I'll be switching to feeding crickets in a few days; probably sticking to flies in the meantime because I can't get moths anymore. I've also been washing my hands after every time I touched Perry, trying not to spread it to the other girls. 

Are my conclusions likely correct? If so, what can I do to help them? Is this something natural I couldn't have prevented, or have I found my 31st and 32nd ways to accidentally kill a mantis?

Also. . . can mantises subsist comfortably on being fed every other to every couple of days? I'm no longer able to feed every one of my 8 mantises every night and that has been weighing on my mind. 

 
Sounds like bad prey and/or old age. Not much you can do, sorry. 

Crickets are not a very good food choice, unless you're planning to raise them yourself and keep the cage sterile, which is a lot of work. 

Yes, mantids don't need to eat every day, you don't have to feed them every day. I feed my adult girls about once a week, larger meals.

- MantisGirl13 

 
@hibiscusmile yeah, I was hoping that was Klara's problem. She does seem to just be displaying a worse version of normal behavior. She had a major turn for the better this morning; now she's almost completely still. I think you're right. I suppose at least this means that in a few days she'll be able to use her claws again. She never stopped trying to do that. (I believe there's an afterlife for animals.) 

@MantisGirl13. . . I'm not planning to raise the crickets myself. However Peridot's skin was turning black in places, leading me to believe that she had an infection, and she has been living off of flies for a couple weeks. I figured if she got sick off of flies, crickets have got to be a step up.  . . I do have time to clean up after the crickets a lot. Thanks for the advice about feeding frequency. That's a weight off my shoulders.

. . . amazes me just how little I've learned since 2017, when I started keeping mantises.

BTW, Peridot died this morning and I'm pretty sure there's nothing I can do to save Klara. When I put this topic up I wasn't too optimistic either, just noting - mostly trying to determine cause of death. I'm kind of glad it ends this way for Klara. . . seems to be peaceful. I don't see anything that would suggest that she's in pain. I've gotten through the phase where my emotions are wild and am mostly focusing now on that at least it's not a bad way for Klara to die (if this is old age) and at least Peridot's in a better place now. Thanks for your confirmations. 

 
@MantisGirl13. . . I'm not planning to raise the crickets myself. However Peridot's skin was turning black in places, leading me to believe that she had an infection, and she has been living off of flies for a couple weeks. I figured if she got sick off of flies, crickets have got to be a step up.  . . I do have time to clean up after the crickets a lot. Thanks for the advice about feeding frequency. That's a weight off my shoulders.
Where are you planning to get your crickets? Crickets can carry bacteria that cause an infection in the mantis which we usually call black death. This can be mostly avoided if the crickets are kept in a sterile environment where healthy crickets never have access to sick or dead ones, which is very difficult to avoid. I suggest going with something like mealworms, which have a lot less risk. 

Crickets can also attack and kill a vulnerable mantis if they are left alone.

I'm sorry for your loss. 

- MantisGirl13

 
Um, someone else on this site gave me a link to some place called Josh's Frogs, I looked, and it's fairly cheap so that gave the idea some points with me. . . I have a divider container with enough little divisions to keep the crickets in groups of four, meaning my mantises would clear out two cells every meal. Mealworms. . . I'll have to look into that. Would those ever get onto the ceiling where my mantises are, or would I have to help the worms a bit with that part? Whittney might climb down to the ground to get at them but the others won't.

 
Mealworms usually have to be hand-fed, but it isn't that much of a hassle. 

- MantisGirl13

 
I have some practice with that :)  Thanks to Klara mostly. What do you feed mealworms and how long can you keep them alive? I found a place I can get some.

 
I have some practice with that :)  Thanks to Klara mostly. What do you feed mealworms and how long can you keep them alive? I found a place I can get some.
I buy a cup from the pet store and keep it in the fridge. I go through them quickly with so many insect-eating animals, so I don't feed them usually.

- MantisGirl13

 
Top