# Where to buy/start?



## spyderspy (Apr 11, 2013)

Cheers to all...want to start a new hobby and need help...thought about doing this for sometime and I'm ready to go. So where do I start?

What do I buy? etc... Thank you in advance to anyone who helps me out...


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## angelofdeathzz (Apr 11, 2013)

Not all mantis sp get cared for the same, what species were you thinking about starting with? Some like it hot and wet, some hot and dry, others are easier and room temp is fine with a misting once in a while, etc.

I'll leave to other members to clue you in on a good starter species, but just read a bit and see what you like, the want ads here are a good place buy from just read the reviews(feedback) on them first so you know there on the up an up. "Precarious" comes to mind as a great guy to buy and learn from.

Good luck and enjoy!


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## jrh3 (Apr 11, 2013)

If i were you i would start with either ghost which are easy or S. Lineola or H. majuscula nymphs, ghost ooth will be a great start if you want to start from birth. They can hatch out at room temp. I think you will have good luck with them. Also look into a creobreoter sp. they are fairly easy. Look into the for sale section. I think RobR1976 has a pair of H. majuscula sub adults left, you can pm him. They will molt once more into adults then you can read up on breeding them. I have a pair and they will attack flies and moths, very fun to watch and the temp requirements are not too bad. But when it comes down too it ghost mantids was my first mantid besides the wild caught carolinas and chinese.


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## Bug Trader (Apr 11, 2013)

If ghosts are appealing to you I will send you a nice group of nymphs, just cover shipping and read up on their housing, feeding and care needs.

Michael


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## aNisip (Apr 11, 2013)

Some of the best guys just posted in this thread...take their advice and heed to it greatly! First find a specie you would want to care for....do a lot! of research on them...and then prepare yourself for their arrival and care for them as needed and enjoy! That's a very good offer from BugTrader...ghosts are an easy beginner specie and you'll learn a lot from them...

All the best,

Andrew


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## jrh3 (Apr 11, 2013)

The best learning experience you can get is starting with a nymph raise to adult, learn to sex them and make a log of everything (feeding, molting, misting, ect.) this will help you down the road when you produce offspring. Oh yeah read, read, read, lol.


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## TheOtherSpecies (Apr 11, 2013)

Do your research!


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## Mime454 (Apr 11, 2013)

TheOtherSpecies said:


> Do your research!


It's almost as if that's exactly what he's doing...


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## BugLover (Apr 11, 2013)

Hello!

As everyone else here has said, pick a species.

Basically you will need a container and food, but different species may need different food (flying food) or a heat lamp like angelofdeathzz said.

Hope some other people can help you!


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 11, 2013)

At the bottom of this page shows you can get a couple nymphs with food for just supporting the forum for 13.00! You can go with priority shipping and right now I am offering ghost or giant Asians!


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## Crazy4mantis (Apr 11, 2013)

My first mantis was a creobroter and that turned out very well. Ghosts like people said are good too. Certain heirodulas and sophrodomantis are very large, easy, and fun. Google them. There are many beautiful tropical species like idolomantis you can get after you gain experience. The sale forum and mantisplace.com are good places to look for mantids. There is a very good care sheet at the top of the general mantid discutions page. Feel free to ask questions that's what we're here for!


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## Bug Trader (Apr 11, 2013)

or like I said just pay $8 and I will send you a box of ghosts so you can be sure this hobby is for you before making any real investments in it. This hobby has a long reputation for people coming in spending alot of cash and deciding its not for them.

Michael


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## angelofdeathzz (Apr 11, 2013)

Michael makes a very good point...def take his very generous offer!


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## Tony C (Apr 11, 2013)

angelofdeathzz said:


> Michael makes a very good point...def take his very generous offer!


That is how I got my start with exotics, a group of ghosts gifted by Mike.


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## glock34girl (Apr 11, 2013)

Tony C said:


> That is how I got my start with exotics, a group of ghosts gifted by Mike.


I paid a lot of money at first and the mantid died unexpectedly and I thought... This hobby is not for me to shell out so much and have no guarantees. I ran into mike and others in the forum and have had the opportunity to enjoy many species without going broke. It's a great hobby with great peeps and you've had some good advice. I have about 12 ghosts if various stages and they crack me up, really fun species. I have other species too and the are all fun and unique in their own ways.  ask around, mike is offering you a great deal! Box of mantids for 8 bucks. Doesn't get any better than that!


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 12, 2013)

Sorry, was not trying to take away business from bug trader, just wanted the forum to get the return.


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## Bug Trader (Apr 12, 2013)

It has nothing to do with Business, I was offering something up completely free, a dozen or so Ghost nymphs for a group viv are a pretty decent way to start out and make sure this hobby is for you before spending any excess cash or commiting yourself to the forum.

I try and help out all who I can.


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## Mime454 (Apr 12, 2013)

I got into mantids from the forum supporter deal. It's a good thing that Rebecca offers and it helps the forum. If you like BT's ghosts, there's no reason why you can't become a forum supporter too!


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## jamurfjr (Apr 12, 2013)

I should become a forum supporter too. I really enjoy this place. Rebecca, you'll be hearing from me soon.


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## frogparty (Apr 12, 2013)

Awesome offer of free mantids! Ghosts are definitely a good beginner species! Easy to care for, not too picky about prey items, and look like something right out of Aliens! Keep em fat, and you can keep them communally (Id do same sex groups though!)

The forum getting $$ ( and anyones business included) to me will always come second to perpetuating the hobby, and embracing what I think is the best thing about any hobby, which is sharing the wealth, trading critters around, and making good connections. Vendors come and they go, but good hobbyists spreading good solid information and building connections is what will make our hobby last long term, and will end up creating a community where good solid husbandry info based on sound science and observation is available to all.

THATS the best thing anyone can hope for in the hobby.


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## glock34girl (Apr 12, 2013)

frogparty said:


> Awesome offer of free mantids! Ghosts are definitely a good beginner species! Easy to care for, not too picky about prey items, and look like something right out of Aliens! Keep em fat, and you can keep them communally (Id do same sex groups though!)
> 
> The forum getting $$ ( and anyones business included) to me will always come second to perpetuating the hobby, and embracing what I think is the best thing about any hobby, which is sharing the wealth, trading critters around, and making good connections. Vendors come and they go, but good hobbyists spreading good solid information and building connections is what will make our hobby last long term, and will end up creating a community where good solid husbandry info based on sound science and observation is available to all.
> 
> THATS the best thing anyone can hope for in the hobby.


Yeah that's what I meant


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## Bug Trader (Apr 12, 2013)

glock34girl said:


> Yeah that's what I meant


No it;s not :-(


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## jamurfjr (Apr 12, 2013)

frogparty said:


> Awesome offer of free mantids! Ghosts are definitely a good beginner species! Easy to care for, not too picky about prey items, and look like something right out of Aliens! Keep em fat, and you can keep them communally (Id do same sex groups though!)
> 
> The forum getting $$ ( and anyones business included) to me will always come second to perpetuating the hobby, and embracing what I think is the best thing about any hobby, which is sharing the wealth, trading critters around, and making good connections. Vendors come and they go, but good hobbyists spreading good solid information and building connections is what will make our hobby last long term, and will end up creating a community where good solid husbandry info based on sound science and observation is available to all.
> 
> THATS the best thing anyone can hope for in the hobby.


Not trying to make anyone money. Agree with your sentiments regarding the hobby. However, I see this forum as the medium which facilitates the exchange. Where would the community be without it?


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## jamurfjr (Apr 12, 2013)

Just put my $ where my mouth is. Went green. Generous offer from bug trader too. One I would accept. The forum made that offer possible—nothing wrong with supporting it either. Rebecca was kind enough to offer a bonus/incentive. Sure it's free advertisement, but she is running business, right? And that is how I feel about that.


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 12, 2013)

Thanks jam, nice to be understood! I only offer a couple as I discussed with Peter once, that is a good number to start out with for people new to the hobby, so they do not get overwhelmed with learning about them while caring for them too.


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## frogparty (Apr 12, 2013)

The hobby would still perpetuate, and the market will be taken over by vendors ready and able to offer competitive pricing, reliable availability, and willing to expand their market share in the hobby. We've seen it with spiders, dart frogs, you name it.

Hiding a plea for sales behind the " give me your $ so the forum benefits" is very transparent. To me, that attitude actually undercuts the good will expressed by bug trader in attempting to help out a new hobbyist


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## Tony C (Apr 12, 2013)

frogparty said:


> The hobby would still perpetuate, and the market will be taken over by vendors ready and able to offer competitive pricing, reliable availability, and willing to expand their market share in the hobby. We've seen it with spiders, dart frogs, you name it.
> 
> Hiding a plea for sales behind the " give me your $ so the forum benefits" is very transparent. To me, that attitude actually undercuts the good will expressed by bug trader in attempting to help out a new hobbyist


In the short time I've been here on MF I have noticed a pattern of near-constant sales pitches in discussion threads and thinly veiled insults directed toward any perceived competition. That is very unprofessional and off-putting behavior from a business owner, and slamming someone who offers a free start to a new hobbyist is a new low. I know where I won't be spending my money, no matter how thick the shills lay it on.


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## glock34girl (Apr 12, 2013)

Bug Trader said:


> No it;s not :-(


Talk about a typo. Lol you know what I mean though.


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## jamurfjr (Apr 12, 2013)

No point in continuing with this. Our minds just don't work alike . All about perception. As an objective observer—of which I try to be—I see things much differently. Good luck with "revolutionizing" the hobby.


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## frogparty (Apr 12, 2013)

This hobby needs revolutionizing. There is so much potential, and yet we are stuck with plastic plants in plastic tubs wondering if you can transplant a mantises head.

You ever compare this to ANY OTHER HOBBY?


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## jamurfjr (Apr 12, 2013)

frogparty said:


> This hobby needs revolutionizing. There is so much potential, and yet we are stuck with plastic plants in plastic tubs wondering if you can transplant a mantises head.
> 
> You ever compare this to ANY OTHER HOBBY?


Hey, why stop now?

I've read this argument somewhere before. Original? Echolalia? I don't see anyone standing in the way of advancement. As a matter of fact, this hobby has come a LONG way. And to answer your question, why yes, yes I have compared...


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## Bug Trader (Apr 12, 2013)

A hobby where your post count is based on rank, the lack of a real dedication to establishing what we are working with, the lack of educational and science based content vs what to name your bug and how to feed it unnatural foods. I have not hid the fact I think the hobby needs a better goal and that it needs to be a group effort so to mention good luck revolutionizing the hobby is crazy because I have already started the process as have other like minded hobbyists. I get more messages for advice, information, than anything and somehow I cant tell people to look on the forum because I personally do not like to have to dig through threads that end with off topic chats, sales offers and other BS.

So excuse me for mentioning to a new hobbyist that i would like to offer them something free with no strings attached so that just in case this hobby is not for them they didnt have to waste a sponsor fee and whatever else to get some free bugs. I can tell you for a fact anyone who knows me will confirm this forum is NOT the hobby like you refer to it as, The forum is just a piece of the big puzzle and forth most if you can't enjoy this hobby without the forum why did you even come here in the first place? I hand out, sell and show off more mantids on FB and through other means because the hobby will not grow with us just sitting here trading bugs between the few of us. It will bring in other ideas, business, means to advance husbandry and the establishment of whats here but since you seem fine with the way things are why bother trying right?


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## frogparty (Apr 12, 2013)

Where I see this hobby going is :

SCIENTIFIC based care and husbandry info

DISCOURAGING of inbreeding

PROMOTION of more naturalistic Vivariums

INCREASE in quality feeder items


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## Tony C (Apr 12, 2013)

jamurfjr said:


> Hey, why stop now?
> 
> I've read this argument somewhere before. Original? Echolalia? I don't see anyone standing in the way of advancement. As a matter of fact, this hobby has come a LONG way. And to answer your question, why yes, yes I have compared...


You're so witty, anyone who wants to grow beyond gumball containers and licking the boots of a wannabe mantid tycoon is developmentally disabled? Give me a break.


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## jamurfjr (Apr 12, 2013)

Bug Trader said:


> A hobby where your post count is based on rank, the lack of a real dedication to establishing what we are working with, the lack of educational and science based content vs what to name your bug and how to feed it unnatural foods. I have not hid the fact I think the hobby needs a better goal and that it needs to be a group effort so to mention good luck revolutionizing the hobby is crazy because I have already started the process as have other like minded hobbyists. I get more messages for advice, information, than anything and somehow I cant tell people to look on the forum because I personally do not like to have to dig through threads that end with off topic chats, sales offers and other BS.
> 
> So excuse me for mentioning to a new hobbyist that i would like to offer them something free with no strings attached so that just in case this hobby is not for them they didnt have to waste a sponsor fee and whatever else to get some free bugs. I can tell you for a fact anyone who knows me will confirm this forum is NOT the hobby like you refer to it as, The forum is just a piece of the big puzzle and forth most if you can't enjoy this hobby without the forum why did you even come here in the first place? I hand out, sell and show off more mantids on FB and through other means because the hobby will not grow with us just sitting here trading bugs between the few of us. It will bring in other ideas, business, means to advance husbandry and the establishment of whats here but since you seem fine with the way things are why bother trying right?


I never criticized you for offering the freebies. In fact, I thought it very nice. However, I now wonder if it wasn't a ploy.

Yeah, and besides, shouldn't you be working on project mantis. Wait a sec! Whoops, Orin wrote the book. Rebecca owns a mantis business. Doh! And Peter has the forum. Okay, I can see why you have the time.

I'm going to be brutally honest here: Not the that I'm some great writer, but I really wish an English major would come along and diagram your sentences and point out errors. I don't see you as the king of mantids. I see you as the king of run-on sentences. Hard to take seriously.

The above comment's negativity is reminiscent of how I perceive your posts. Your condescension has not won me over.


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## jamurfjr (Apr 12, 2013)

Tony C said:


> You're so witty, anyone who wants to grow beyond gumball containers and licking the boots of a wannabe mantid tycoon is developmentally disabled? Give me a break.


Well, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. How again did you hear about this forum? Lol!

You really know nothing about me.

And for the record, I have never patronized Rebecca's business.


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## jamurfjr (Apr 12, 2013)

Gotta run. The kid needs a ride. Be back later guys!


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## Bug Trader (Apr 12, 2013)

King of Mantids? Really? You may have better grammar but _name calling _to call it a ploy that I offered free mantids. I have given away far more now than I will ever sell so take your time and point out any mistakes in my posts you can because when its all said and done I have my hobby, friends and a plan to bring in more like minded people looking to take on a nice project or two and you can go on defending the entire HOBBY right here on MF.

But I'm just a simple hobbyist, sorry I do not have a book out yet, or that I havent established a business I guess I've been too busy trying to make getting feeders, mantids and other nice ideas like cages out to the hobby at costs so we can all benefit.


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## frogparty (Apr 12, 2013)

I think the main point that bug trader and I are trying to make is this: (I am NOT trying to put words into his mouth here, just a guess, since I know him from another exotics hobby)

We've seen other hobbies evolve from the days BEFORE THE INTERNET, to where they currently stand. Weve seen people who like to keep the hobby the way it is balk at change, because these people are big fish in a little pond, and they want to keep it that way, because thats the way they like it. New people come along who can do it better, more reliably, more competitively priced etc and theres a backlash... a BIG backlash, but in the end, the vendors who have the advancement of the hobby at heart are the ones that ALWAYS last long term. And yeah, some of the pioneers fell off, because they couldnt adapt to the way the hobby was changing. But the hobby didnt suffer because of it. It always got better.

Back in the day, you had to try really hard to get the valuable information and insight you needed to be successful, and ANYTIME another hobbyist wanted to feel generous and share animals, husbandry "secrets" etc it was like finding a gold nugget while mowing your lawn- unexpected, but EXTREMELY appreciated. No one bothered with random BS questions like " HEY, can I glue the abdomen of my skeleton tarantula to the cephalothorax of my red knee tarantula? that would look awesome" You had to read books, articles, and put valuable animals on the line for trial and error to figure out just what was going to work out the best. People had a lot more respect for where their information came from because of it, and there was a WHOLE LOT LESS repetitive " I heard this, that etc" misinformation spread around by people who really had no idea what they were talking about.

With the internet, information sharing got a lot easier, but even at first, with slow modem speeds and no forums, it was all email correspondence and you still had to wait for your price lists to come in the mail, or join a local society of interest to make connections to get what you wanted. There was a lOT of sharing/ trading going on, and it really helped to grow the hobby to a whole other level. USUALLY, for the better.

THIS hobby has a looooong way to go. Why discourage any QUALITY information sharing, animal trading, husbandry secrets etc when its going to make our hobby SO MUCH BETTER?


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## glock34girl (Apr 12, 2013)

I have received a ton of free stuff from Bug Trader. Never a string attached or an expectation other than to succeed with the mantis. He offers advise, help and has helped me with my live viv all for free. His offer of free mantis is not a ploy, it is what he said it was. A great opportunity to see if someone is interested in the hobby or specific species. Also, if you are going to insult someone's grammar/spelling you may want to check out your own post. Bugs a good guy, he loves the hobby and wants it to progress. Nothing wrong with that.

So anyway, the original question was what to buy, and I think a lot of great advice has been given. Ill say it again, ghosts are funny. Give them honey ad they shake their bumb!  my creos were simple and pretty animated. I think if you see something you like, go for it.


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## BugLover (Apr 12, 2013)

sorry but fftopic: can we go back to helping this person figure out what they need to start out?


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 12, 2013)

Hey, lets all settle down, why make this an argument, newbie, I am sorry you have to see this, if I did anything wrong, I apologize for the whole forum, this is not normal behavior and I pray you forgive us. Lets just stop here...PLEASE, PLEASE.


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## Orin (Apr 12, 2013)

I don't think anyone is making any real money in this hobby and I think we all do it because of our passion for these amazing insects. However, since when was making a few bucks for hard work considered a sin?


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## Tony C (Apr 12, 2013)

Orin said:


> I don't think anyone is making any real money in this hobby and I think we all do it because of our passion for these amazing insects. However, since when was making a few bucks for hard work considered a sin?


Of course there is nothing wrong with making money from your labor, but when a business owner feels the need to constantly bash any and all competition, even people just giving away surplus animals to spread the love of the hobby then I do not wish to support them. There is plenty of room for the hobby to grow and for many businesses to coexist and succeed instead of one trying to hold it all back in order to be the big fish in a small pond frogparty described.


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## Orin (Apr 12, 2013)

Tony C said:


> Of course there is nothing wrong with making money from your labor, but when a business owner feels the need to constantly bash any and all competition, even people just giving away surplus animals to spread the love of the hobby then I do not wish to support them. There is plenty of room for the hobby to grow and for many businesses to coexist and succeed instead of one trying to hold it all back in order to be the big fish in a small pond frogparty described.


Send me a PM with the details, I'm missing where a business owner bashed anyone. Also, I think people get confused when they think things are making money that are not. This forum costs money to run, it does not bring in money. I spent at least a thousand keeping it running in the past and I'm a cheapskate compared to Peter.


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## angelofdeathzz (Apr 13, 2013)

jamurfjr said:


> I never criticized you for offering the freebies. In fact, I thought it very nice. However, I now wonder if it wasn't a ploy.
> 
> Yeah, and besides, shouldn't you be working on project mantis. Wait a sec! Whoops, Orin wrote the book. Rebecca owns a mantis business. Doh! And Peter has the forum. Okay, I can see why you have the time.
> 
> ...


Do not slander Bug Trader, you must not know him, so don't talk about people you don't understand, Rebecca and Michael both help people, trust me they do!


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## Tony C (Apr 13, 2013)

Orin said:


> Send me a PM with the details, I'm missing where a business owner bashed anyone. Also, I think people get confused when they think things are making money that are not. This forum costs money to run, it does not bring in money. I spent at least a thousand keeping it running in the past and I'm a cheapskate compared to Peter.


I was on staff at geckoforums.net for several years before Kelli sold it, I'm not a newbie to the forum game. I know how much money a well-run forum can bring in. Not enough to make a living but certainly a nice bit of supplemental income.


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## Orin (Apr 13, 2013)

Tony C said:


> I was on staff at geckoforums.net for several years before Kelli sold it, I'm not a newbie to the forum game. I know how much money a well-run forum can bring in. Not enough to make a living but certainly a nice bit of supplemental income.


You are confusing apples with oranges (or mantids with geckos).


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## Peter Clausen (Apr 13, 2013)

Tony, you must be implying that this forum is not well run. We are all volunteers here, for many years. For the record, my bank statement for hosting this forum, this month, is pasted below:

04/04/2013 Debit Card Transaction INVISION POWER SERVICE 804-2005695 VA 04/03

$90.00

I paid $90 for the forum to be hosted this month. There are other costs that I pay on a yearly basis for me to operate this forum but I won't list them here and I won't attempt to account for the time that many of us contribute to the upkeep in monetary terms or the ~$20 calendars that I buy for our three mods each year, etc. So, anybody can do the math on how much profit I made this month by going into the Forum Supporter thread in the Announcements section and adding up the number of people that joined this month against the $90 it cost me to run this forum. (And by the way, I also operate Roachforum.com and Beetleforum.net and there is no income stream for them, whatsoever.) For those scoring at home, I need 6 to 7 people to become Forum Supporters every month to break even on the $90. That doesn't happen and I have nothing but gratitude to the members who participate on this forum whether they are Forum Supporters or not. I do this because I enjoy it, and even taking the time to explain this gives me a slight sense of satisfaction in knowing the total truth is represented to a community I care about.


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## Tony C (Apr 13, 2013)

I wasn't implying anything, just relating an experience in the forum world. I wasn't paid, nor was the rest of the staff we volunteered out of friendship and love of the hobby.


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 13, 2013)

Bug Trader said:


> or like I said just pay $8 and I will send you a box of ghosts so you can be sure this hobby is for you before making any real investments in it. This hobby has a long reputation for people coming in spending alot of cash and deciding its not for them.
> 
> Michael





frogparty said:


> The hobby would still perpetuate, and the market will be taken over by vendors ready and able to offer competitive pricing, reliable availability, and willing to expand their market share in the hobby. We've seen it with spiders, dart frogs, you name it.
> 
> Hiding a plea for sales behind the " give me your $ so the forum benefits" is very transparent. To me, that attitude actually undercuts the good will expressed by bug trader in attempting to help out a new hobbyist





Tony C said:


> In the short time I've been here on MF I have noticed a pattern of near-constant sales pitches in discussion threads and thinly veiled insults directed toward any perceived competition. That is very unprofessional and off-putting behavior from a business owner, and slamming someone who offers a free start to a new hobbyist is a new low. I know where I won't be spending my money, no matter how thick the shills lay it on.





frogparty said:


> This hobby needs revolutionizing. There is so much potential, and yet we are stuck with plastic plants in plastic tubs wondering if you can transplant a mantises head.
> 
> You ever compare this to ANY OTHER HOBBY?





Tony C said:


> You're so witty, anyone who wants to grow beyond gumball containers and licking the boots of a wannabe mantid tycoon is developmentally disabled? Give me a break.





Tony C said:


> Of course there is nothing wrong with making money from your labor, but when a business owner feels the need to constantly bash any and all competition, even people just giving away surplus animals to spread the love of the hobby then I do not wish to support them. There is plenty of room for the hobby to grow and for many businesses to coexist and succeed instead of one trying to hold it all back in order to be the big fish in a small pond frogparty described.





Tony C said:


> I wasn't implying anything, just relating an experience in the forum world. I wasn't paid, nor was the rest of the staff we volunteered out of friendship and love of the hobby.


Tony &amp; Frogparty, then it is easy to see why I volunteer to send mantis and feeders to new member who support the forum. This is a family friendly run forum, no swearing, no dirty pictures and very little sexual innuendoes allowed. {Notice Bugtraders post being censored by Orin} I send almost all my customers here, an once they start trading on the forum, I really don't make any money from them, as it is cheaper here to buy. I Love my little bugs and enjoy all the emails I get from most people &amp; knowing I am helping to keep this place afloat is my reward. If anyone reads my feedback, it is usually for flies that the forum members buy, so it's not like I get many mantis orders here. Btw, rarely anyone buys anything that goes with the free mantis and food and I have been doing this for a year or more and do not expect that to change.

Here's a tip, when you and froggy decide you want to bite someones head off, start with your own. If you guys don't like the way things are here &amp; the members and their "silly posts" why are you here?

Mantis forum members, Frog party has an ought against me and has told me in no uncertain terms in the pm 's that anytime he can send someone away from my company he would do so. Don't believe me, do a search on his posts after I post some things. Tony is someone as far as I know I have never delt with, but if you read his first post on page one, you will see he received his first mantis from Frogparty, so in that aspect they are friends. No problem there, but friends do talk to each other and stick together, don't they? Enough said? I could of left this all go, but enough is enough and it is time you all know what is really going on here. I did not just join this forum to get rich, I have been here going on seven (7) years.


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## Tony C (Apr 13, 2013)

hibiscusmile said:


> Tony is someone as far as I know I have never delt with, but if you read his first post on page one, you will see he received his first mantis from Frogparty, so in that aspect they are friends. No problem there, but friends do talk to each other and stick together, don't they? Enough said? I could of left this all go, but enough is enough and it is time you all know what is really going on here. I did not just join this forum to get rich, I have been here going on seven (7) years.


No you have not dealt with me, and I have never received anything from frogparty either. We are acquainted through the frog hobby and Mike (Bug Trader), but you can stow the paranoia because there is no conspiracy between us to get you. I arrived at my opinion through this thread and the many past posts I have read.


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## frogparty (Apr 13, 2013)

I don't believe I ever gave or sold Tony a mantis


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## Tony C (Apr 13, 2013)

frogparty said:


> I don't believe I ever gave or sold Tony a mantis


No, but feel free at the next secret council meeting.


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## frogparty (Apr 13, 2013)

And Rebecca, I base my opinions totally on my business relationship with vendors. Compared to ANYONE ELSE, vendor or hobbyist I ve dealt with in the mantis hobby, you are the absolute bottom of the barrel. You overcharge, unprofessionally pack, and provided me nothing but excuses when I took issue with the quality of product I received.

I DO NOT hold any personal agenda. I get a lot of requests from frog and orchid hobbyists for mantids, and i more often than not have to send their $$ elsewhere,because I don't produce a large # or variety of mantids. These people are my friends and acquaintances, and I want to be able to recommend to them a source I KNOW will not let them down. Rebecca, in my experience, you don't fit my criteria.

Why am I here? It's the only mantis forum online. I love pics of mantids, I like to see who has what available, make purchases, new connections, and share what insight I do have when I have time. Because I don't flood the board with chit chat doesn't mean I don't keep up with what's going on here. I am working on solidifying the technique for the culture of a few feeders that will hopefully, for many people, significantly reduce the need for flies. When I'm convinced its solid, have enough starter cultures to share, and feel comfortable with putting my name on it, I'll share it. Not before.


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## frogparty (Apr 13, 2013)

TONY!! Shut up! The first rule of fight club is??


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## Digger (Apr 13, 2013)

It is to laugh. It's like watching Congress or Parliament.

Did anyone actually HELP this new member request?? He's probably long gone.

Forget exotics for heaven's sake. He has zero experience. Let him start with a Chinese or something similar. Big, personable and easy.


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## frogparty (Apr 13, 2013)

AND- I'm hoping to solidify a South American connection for new species through a connection from another hobby. That would be a pretty good contribution, and one I've been working hard on for a few months.


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## Tony C (Apr 13, 2013)

frogparty said:


> TONY!! Shut up! The first rule of fight club is??


Oops. Don't tase me, bro.


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## Tony C (Apr 13, 2013)

Digger said:


> It is to laugh. It's like watching Congress or Parliament.
> 
> Did anyone actually HELP this new member request?? He's probably long gone.
> 
> Forget exotics for heaven's sake. He has zero experience. Let him start with a Chinese or something similar. Big, personable and easy.


Yes, Mike offered him Ghosts, and I also offered some of my surplus privately. Any of those offered would be excellent to start with.


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## patrickfraser (Apr 13, 2013)

Knock it off, before someone drops a house on ALL of you! If you have negative feedback to leave, leave it. I believe that ALL forums are very clique-ey. Everybody wants to be in with the "in' crowd. High school never ends, does it? I have usually been an outsider, but found it fun on the forum. Then...people left...people came back...and it just isn't as fun anymore.


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 13, 2013)

This is just what I am talking about, I did not say anything against you, I was pointing out that your one word was edited, because it is a family forum. that was all, nothing at all against you.


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## angelofdeathzz (Apr 13, 2013)

Peter, 99.9% of the people here including me truly appreciate all that you and Orin have done with this forum, for someone to think your responsible for every post or thread thats not perfect is plain blasphemy, you should do what ever helps pay the bills around here, with banners, third party offers or what ever you deem as good for the forum period!

Don't let a few people naive people(or person) let you think your efforts and intentions are not appreciated!

If anyone doesn't like how things are ran around here, there's the door..

I'd like to think we're all on the same team, but sometimes I wonder?

Edit: And I totally agree with Patrick!


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## Malakyoma (Apr 13, 2013)

hibiscusmile said:


> This is just what I am talking about, I did not say anything against you, I was pointing out that your one word was edited, because it is a family forum. that was all, nothing at all against you.


I disagree. My impression from your previous post was very much against mike and his friends. People who want the hobby to grow and do everything they can to help it do so by posting guides and pictures and how-tos, all while offering up mantids as cheap as they can afford to make them. There's a lot of people on the forum, including those who've been here 7 years or more, who could learn a thing or two about how to conduct a hobby. Unless of course they all want to crash it straight into the ground.


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