# I'm an Entomologist- ask me anything!



## Trundlebug (May 11, 2015)

Hi all, so I thought this would be something fun to do. Like the title says, I'm an Entomologist - meaning I work with insects professionally.  since most of you are hobbyists (I hope?) I might have some insight into any questions you have about insects, mantids, or my field in particular.

Any questions? Ask away!


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## jrh3 (May 12, 2015)

Question answered lol. Have you ever worked with horsehead hoppers?


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## Jay (May 12, 2015)

Okay Trundlebug - I hope you can give me a bit of insight on this one.

This forum has had several discussions about inbreeding and inbreeding depression. Though some species of mantis were once available to the hobby for a generation or two, either because the breeders did not keep enough stock or something else happened, the species no longer produced viable offspring. This has led some of us to consider inbreeding depression a possible threat to some mantis species.

With this in mind - how prevalent a problem is inbreeding depression in most insects and how large of a population of a specific species of mantis would you suggest to keep a breeder from experiencing inbreeding depression with his (or her) mantis landrace? (In answering this question I understand that specific species may be more sensitive to inbreeding depression than others - but I was just wondering your opinion)

Though I apologize for the length of the question, I am hoping a thoughtful question will evoke a thoughtful response.

Thanks!

-Jay


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## Rick (May 12, 2015)

Do you work with insects in a broad sense or do you focus on one system in particular?


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## Krissim Klaw (May 13, 2015)

Is it morally acceptable to taunt one's mantis with a mouse pointer? :whistling:


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## Darkrai283 (May 14, 2015)

Jay said:


> Okay Trundlebug - I hope you can give me a bit of insight on this one.
> 
> This forum has had several discussions about inbreeding and inbreeding depression. Though some species of mantis were once available to the hobby for a generation or two, either because the breeders did not keep enough stock or something else happened, the species no longer produced viable offspring. This has led some of us to consider inbreeding depression a possible threat to some mantis species.
> 
> ...


I'm interested in this as well.


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## Rick (May 14, 2015)

Keep on topic please.


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## Trundlebug (May 18, 2015)

jrh3 said:


> Question answered lol. Have you ever worked with horsehead hoppers?


I haven't! They are very, very cool looking though -- they seem very similar to katydids. I bet our outreach program would love to get a few of those.


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## Mantis Man13 (May 18, 2015)

Are any mantises classified as endangered at all?


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## Trundlebug (May 18, 2015)

Jay said:


> Okay Trundlebug - I hope you can give me a bit of insight on this one.
> 
> This forum has had several discussions about inbreeding and inbreeding depression. Though some species of mantis were once available to the hobby for a generation or two, either because the breeders did not keep enough stock or something else happened, the species no longer produced viable offspring. This has led some of us to consider inbreeding depression a possible threat to some mantis species.
> 
> ...


What an interesting question! Just really quickly, I want to link this quick read for anyone who might not know what inbreeding depression is. The article explains it really well!

Inbreeding depression in insects is actually poorly studied (save for fruit flies and a few different types of beetles), and actually only seems to occur in laboratory settings (or in the home, as it is now  ). Insects are pretty good about avoiding inbreeding in the wild.

Thinking about the life history of mantises, they're fairly good at dispersal -- they have to be, being predators -- and are probably more sensitive to it than, say, a type of beetle that lives and reproduces in one tree for generations. How sensitive they are highly depends on their evolutionary life history. Do they come from a small pocket of individuals in the wild? Or like the chinese mantis, are they everywhere? A species that comes from a tiny specialized area has a much higher risk than one that's found over a larger region. The farther away a population is generationally from wild individuals, the more the risk increases as well.

To avoid inbreeding depression, you would definitely need to bring individuals in from the wild at some point or another. The more we breed and trade the babies with one another for more breeding projects, the more towards inbreeding depression we inevitably go! We're essentially just breeding more and more offspring from a limited pool of resources. If you knew the lineage of every mantis you kept, you could avoid it much easier, but that's a difficult prospect now.


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## Trundlebug (May 18, 2015)

Rick said:


> Do you work with insects in a broad sense or do you focus on one system in particular?


I've done both! Right now I work with two specialized systems. One is the biological control of the polyphagous shothole borer, which is a tiny ambrosia beetle that is destroying our avocado trees, and the second is the bacterial symbionts in kissing bugs (transmitters of Chagas disease) that allow them to digest blood meals.

I also just like to play around with different bugs too! I work in our insect outreach program from time to time, taking care of beetles, roaches, phasmids, grasshoppers, centipedes, millipedes, black widow spiders, and loooots of tarantulas. People like those. We used to have mantises before I started working here as well.


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## Trundlebug (May 18, 2015)

Krissim Klaw said:


> Is it morally acceptable to taunt one's mantis with a mouse pointer? :whistling:


No. I mean... yes. :stuart:


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## Trundlebug (May 18, 2015)

Mantis Man13 said:


> Are any mantises classified as endangered at all?


I can't think of any, and paper searches are turning up nothing as well.  Most endangered insects are butterflies, beetles, and aquatic species, it seems...


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## Krissim Klaw (May 19, 2015)

Trundlebug said:


> No. I mean... yes. :stuart:


Have you ever seen any studies done on mantis aversion to giant hairy man arms? I've had so many mantises over the years who flat out refuse to climb on my dad's arms. All it takes is one try for them to learn to completely snub his manly man arm hairs. I keep asking him to shave a strip up his arm so they would have a hair free walk way, but so far he keeps turning me down, even when I say it is for science. :taz: 

On a slightly more serious note, do you know of any studies on honey and its affects on insects outside of bees? Honey is generally considered within the hobby to be an acceptable treat for mantises. Over the years however there are also those that claim its useful for health benefits. Some like to feed it to mantises that have been puking, under the assertion it's natural antibacterial properties will help cleanse the mantises gut of any bacterial/fungle type infections/imbalances. I've seen other's that like to slather it on wounds, once again under the assumption it will prevent infection. I'm curious what your thoughts on this would be and if you know of any studies that might support or discredit such thoughts?


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## agent A (May 19, 2015)

my indoor luna moths eclosed and attracted wild males but it seems like my outdoor ones have yet to emerge

why is it that the indoor ones that emerge early are in sync with local populations but the ones outside under the same conditions as local populations are not? do microclimates and a spread out flight season account for this?


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## mantisman 230 (May 19, 2015)

Going back to lineages, we hobbyists have what is known as IGM, this is essentially a stock number that denotes one stock of a species from another, take IGM 267, that is a stock for Acanthops erosula.


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## baskmantids (May 19, 2015)

I've read on a few post that bee pollen can be use to supplement mantids. was wondering what kind of effects does bee pollen have on mantids. is it similar to dusting reptile food itemd with multivitamins?


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## Forcep (May 19, 2015)

Trundlebug said:


> I can't think of any, and paper searches are turning up nothing as well.  Most endangered insects are butterflies, beetles, and aquatic species, it seems...


If you search Mantodea on IUCN there will pop out a species (_Ameles fasciipennis_) rated as CR.


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## Jay (May 21, 2015)

Trundlebug said:


> What an interesting question! Just really quickly, I want to link this quick read for anyone who might not know what inbreeding depression is. The article explains it really well!
> 
> Inbreeding depression in insects is actually poorly studied (save for fruit flies and a few different types of beetles), and actually only seems to occur in laboratory settings (or in the home, as it is now  ). Insects are pretty good about avoiding inbreeding in the wild.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response, Trundlebug!

Yes - it seems we, as a group of hobbyists have much to do to improve this situation so that we can raise a healthy, robust population of mantids.


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## minomantis (May 21, 2015)

I think the idea of how mantis color determination has been beaten to a pulp, but

I think it would be cool to get your opinion on what produces mantis coloration. I guess

what I'm getting at is do you think outside factors play a role in coloration for mantis. In your

opinion. Thanks!


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## sschind (May 21, 2015)

How long would it take for a grasshopper with a wooden leg to kick the seeds out of a dill pickle?


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## Trundlebug (Jun 6, 2015)

Krissim Klaw said:


> Have you ever seen any studies done on mantis aversion to giant hairy man arms? I've had so many mantises over the years who flat out refuse to climb on my dad's arms. All it takes is one try for them to learn to completely snub his manly man arm hairs. I keep asking him to shave a strip up his arm so they would have a hair free walk way, but so far he keeps turning me down, even when I say it is for science. :taz:
> 
> On a slightly more serious note, do you know of any studies on honey and its affects on insects outside of bees? Honey is generally considered within the hobby to be an acceptable treat for mantises. Over the years however there are also those that claim its useful for health benefits. Some like to feed it to mantises that have been puking, under the assertion it's natural antibacterial properties will help cleanse the mantises gut of any bacterial/fungle type infections/imbalances. I've seen other's that like to slather it on wounds, once again under the assumption it will prevent infection. I'm curious what your thoughts on this would be and if you know of any studies that might support or discredit such thoughts?


LOL. Ahh, but my mantises love climbing on my (admittedly hairy?) arms. I don't know what it is. Bugs make a beeline for my arms!

On the honey note: Honey is often used to feed many different types of insects in labs, or even more commonly, just plain sugar water! Fruit is also a very common thing to feed. Insects can turn sugar into energy very easily. (Table sugar and honey also have an identical chemical structure -- essentially they're the same thing -- and fructose is also easy for them to break down.)

Non-predatory insects in particular love sugars. That's what most pollinator species are after when they go dunking their head in flowers -- the nectar.  

Of course, just like us, insects need a variety of nutrients besides just sucrose, but it is a huge source of energy for them. For a predator like a mantid, you're exactly right -- it makes a wonderful snack and also a kind of 'sick meal' that is easy to digest for energy. Hemolymph (insect blood) is probably also a wonderful sick meal, but they probably wouldn't find that as immediately attractive.

Insects have immune systems, just like us, and raw honey does have antibacterial properties! I will have to get back to you on paper searches -- there is a lab next door that works on bees, so I'll ask their opinions too.


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## Trundlebug (Jun 6, 2015)

agent A said:


> my indoor luna moths eclosed and attracted wild males but it seems like my outdoor ones have yet to emerge
> 
> why is it that the indoor ones that emerge early are in sync with local populations but the ones outside under the same conditions as local populations are not? do microclimates and a spread out flight season account for this?


Yep! Sure can!

Also, males of all species usually emerge before females do to get ready for them. The ones outside might be on time, but the ones you have indoors are warmer and may have eclosed earlier. Lots of things to consider! ^o^


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## Trundlebug (Jun 6, 2015)

baskmantids said:


> I've read on a few post that bee pollen can be use to supplement mantids. was wondering what kind of effects does bee pollen have on mantids. is it similar to dusting reptile food itemd with multivitamins?


Yes, exactly! Bee pollen has tons of nutrients in it, the type of nutrients depending on where it was collected (wildflowers, a grove, etc.) I wouldn't say it's necessary, but insects are very efficient little machines. The more nutrients you put in them, the more they'll put out.


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## Trundlebug (Jun 6, 2015)

minomantis said:


> I think the idea of how mantis color determination has been beaten to a pulp, but
> 
> I think it would be cool to get your opinion on what produces mantis coloration. I guess
> 
> ...


Hmm, yes and no. It really depends on the species! Ladybugs have differing spots and color, even among the same species, just because of genetic variation -- but their environment, such as their diet, surrounding vegetation, temperature, weather, and so on -- can affect that as well.

For a familiar example, for something like a ghost mantis, humidity is key to color, right? But a lineage that was kept in a very humid environment might produce strains that are predisposed to be greener. Surrounding plant color is also important. Color morphs in insects can be induced this way, though it is not a surefire way.

I'm sorry that it's not a very clear-cut answer.  

Edit: I also forgot to mention that insects are also incredibly sensitive to chemicals given off by plants, and have evolved close relationships with them. This can also induce color changes.


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## Trundlebug (Jun 6, 2015)

mantisman 230 said:


> Going back to lineages, we hobbyists have what is known as IGM, this is essentially a stock number that denotes one stock of a species from another, take IGM 267, that is a stock for Acanthops erosula.





Jay said:


> Thanks for your response, Trundlebug!
> 
> Yes - it seems we, as a group of hobbyists have much to do to improve this situation so that we can raise a healthy, robust population of mantids.


Wow, how interesting! Sometimes lab breeding programs will do similar things as the IGM numbers. I'm not really knowledgeable about the hobbyist community here, so I have no idea what you guys have been doing all these years and how you breed mantises and things. I hope I didn't worry you! The inbreeding situation is probably a distant 'what if' sort of thing...



Forcep said:


> If you search Mantodea on IUCN there will pop out a species (_Ameles fasciipennis_) rated as CR.


Oooh, thank you!! How neat... what a tiny, adorably rare little mantis. From Italy? Strange to think about how there's mantises everywhere.



sschind said:


> How long would it take for a grasshopper with a wooden leg to kick the seeds out of a dill pickle?


If a cricket chirps in a forest with no reply, does it make a sound before it gets parasitized? :stuart:


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## aesculpius (Jun 7, 2015)

I've noticed two instances of something interesting. I think twice now one of my mantis has scavenged rather than hunted insects in it's cage. Both times the insect had been dead for a handful of days. Now I didn't witness the mantis eating the dead insect but just suspected. Has this been observed before?


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## Sticky (Jun 11, 2015)

Do preying mantids sleep?


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## Jon (Jun 11, 2015)

My mantids just laid a ooth and its my first time and I'm wondering how much it is worth.. I will post a pic


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## Jon (Jun 11, 2015)

Well idk how to post a pic but the ooth is heirdula xishaensis and it's about a centimeter by a centimeter, and fertile


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## Pascaoual (Jun 19, 2015)

[SIZE=10.5pt]Hi...[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I have a question, especially regarding the Gongylus, but may also apply to other species.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Usually, Gongylus can be kept all together, as cannibalism is pretty rare. The main difficulty of breeding them is to get the male to fertilize the female.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I have noticed that some breeders have very good results by putting them outside. I wonder if, when placed outside, the female pheromones dissipate faster and allow to male to sense them within his sensitivity range, and in a much more natural way than when they concentrate in a terrarium (saturation of receptors?).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Also, some breeder advice to keep the male separated from the females for a while before introducing him in the terrarium, mating would most likely occur when the male is reintroduced.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Do you interpret this the same way than I do? What are your thoughts on this?[/SIZE]


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## [email protected] (Jul 4, 2015)

Could you tell me if I am in the ball park? I have a hypothesis:

I have observed that when a mantid survives the "black death," even though they throw up, they seem to accumulate some kind of internal dark sticky substance. This substance seems to internally clot (like our cholesterol in atherosclerosis). For example, sometimes their eyes will start to accumulate this substance and turn dark. It is most observed when they lay ooths right after having the "black death." Their ooths will have this dark sticky substance all over.

So this is my guess: I believe that this substance is something in their hemolymph trapping pathogens. Their bodies make it to trap the bacteria or mold, or whatever else is toxic and could kill them. This substance unfortunately sticks and clots and stays with them the rest of their lives. So the next time they get sick, they have much less chance of surviving. Their bodies try to trap more pathogens and make more of this substance which clots their insides so bad, that they cannot function and then they die.

Am I completely wrong? What is that substance, and do you know how to get rid of it? What is the pathogenesis of the "black death"?


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## [email protected] (Jul 18, 2015)

Sorry about the last question. I really wish to understand the mantids physiology. Then, maybe I would not make so many mistakes


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## Alikaren (Jul 18, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> Could you tell me if I am in the ball park? I have a hypothesis:
> 
> I have observed that when a mantid survives the "black death," even though they throw up, they seem to accumulate some kind of internal dark sticky substance. This substance seems to internally clot (like our cholesterol in atherosclerosis). For example, sometimes their eyes will start to accumulate this substance and turn dark. It is most observed when they lay ooths right after having the "black death." Their ooths will have this dark sticky substance all over.
> 
> ...


Hmm, I think evolution would only allow mantids that store pathogens with the dark substance to create antibodies to combat them instead of just accumulating them forever and any mantid that couldn't do so would probably be destroyed by natural selection. Also, I thought mantids expel those pathogens by liquid-ish defecations. Maybe I'm wrong though, I haven't really been educated on this at all. xD


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## ArvadaLanee (Jul 21, 2015)

I have a question. I have an 8 year old son who says he wants to be an entomologist when he grows up. He announced this one day when he was just 6, and has been saying it ever since. Did you always know you wanted to be an entomologist? Do you have any suggestions on how I can continue to encourage my son, and help him toward his goal? So far, we have raised butterflies one year, and ladybugs, and now we are looking into a pet praying mantis. He seems to love spiders most of all, and wants a tarantula, but I think 8 is a bit too young for that level of care, and also, I admit, I fear the sting of a tarantula, and feel less comfortable with them myself. Are there other spiders that are kept as pets? (I'm not afraid of spiders really, but just anything that can sting me.) Did you also raise insects as a child, and if so, do you think it helped lead you to your current career?

Okay, sorry. That was a few questions.


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## mantisman 230 (Jul 21, 2015)

Well I currently work with the Virginia Tech entomology department each fall. I'm also looking into becoming an entomologist. For a spider I recommend a jumping spider. They do well in captivity and are harmless.


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## ArvadaLanee (Jul 21, 2015)

mantisman 230 said:


> Well I currently work with the Virginia Tech entomology department each fall. I'm also looking into becoming an entomologist. For a spider I recommend a jumping spider. They do well in captivity and are harmless.


Oh, cool. Did you know you wanted to be an entomologist as a kid? Any other helpful advice on encouraging an 8 year old to follow his dream?


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## aNisip (Jul 23, 2015)

ArvadaLanee said:


> Oh, cool. Did you know you wanted to be an entomologist as a kid? Any other helpful advice on encouraging an 8 year old to follow his dream?


This question isn't directed toward me Arvada, but I did...ever since I could crawl...I had a love for animals. While it still holds true, there is a slight preference towards insects. And now I'm on my way towards becoming one (after saying it all these years)  

Back on topic:

Trundlebug,

I will be attending the University of Florida this Fall working towards a degree in Entomology (not sure what track yet  ) ...I have an equal interest in ants as I do mantids and want to eventually pursue something in one of those fields . I was thinking, since there are certain branches in Entomology, like being a Myrmecologist, or an Apiarist... where is the Mantidologist branch? (Mantis in Greek is μάντις mántis...so I would assume a scientist that specifically studies mantises would be called something around the ball park of a Mantidologist) Are there just not enough people pursuing that path/not enough interest in studying mantises for it to become a reputable branch/specification?

All the best,

Andrew


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## MantidLord (Jul 23, 2015)

ArvadaLanee said:


> I have a question. I have an 8 year old son who says he wants to be an entomologist when he grows up. He announced this one day when he was just 6, and has been saying it ever since. Did you always know you wanted to be an entomologist? Do you have any suggestions on how I can continue to encourage my son, and help him toward his goal? So far, we have raised butterflies one year, and ladybugs, and now we are looking into a pet praying mantis. He seems to love spiders most of all, and wants a tarantula, but I think 8 is a bit too young for that level of care, and also, I admit, I fear the sting of a tarantula, and feel less comfortable with them myself. Are there other spiders that are kept as pets? (I'm not afraid of spiders really, but just anything that can sting me.) Did you also raise insects as a child, and if so, do you think it helped lead you to your current career?
> 
> Okay, sorry. That was a few questions.


Hi Arvada.

I'm also an entomologist (recently got my bs in entomology from Cornell), so while the creator of the thread is away, I'll try to chime in and give my 2 cents. You're doing everything right by encouraging your child and allow him to raise and own a variety of insects. I first got interested in insects at the age of 8 (by a praying mantis of course) and while I never wanted to be an entomologist until I was in high school, my passion never faded and only grew. My parents allowed me to keep mantids, scorpions, tarantulas, etc and took me to museums and hiking, etc. So again, you're doing great.

About the tarantula. They can be VERY easy to take care of. The Chilean Rose Hair, which is the most common in the hobby is sometimes called the "pet rock" of the tarantula world because it's that easy to care for. Honestly, easy to care for than most mantids... I recommend doing a bit of research on them to see if it can work out for you. Also, tarantulas very in temperament and for many, the bite is actually weak but the urticating hairs they have can cause harm. Still, my tarantulas are used to me and don't "kick" or rear up at me. They even crawl on my hand sometimes. It all depends.


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## MantidLord (Jul 23, 2015)

AndrewNisip said:


> This question isn't directed toward me Arvada, but I did...ever since I could crawl...I had a love for animals. While it still holds true, there is a slight preference towards insects. And now I'm on my way towards becoming one (after saying it all these years)
> 
> Back on topic:
> 
> ...


Hi Andrew,

Unfortunately there isn't a real branch focusing on mantids. For those few of us working on mantids, the studies vary from looking at their eye sight and more physiological questions to genetic/phylogenies (e.g. Gavin Svenson), to some questions regarding mating systems (e.g. Kate Barry). Unfortunately mantids, though really cool, aren't that "sexy" as study animals because they're pretty difficult to rear cheaply in the lab and they don't have a fast generation. I mainly study their behavioral ecology and do field work so I'm able to circumvent a lot of those issues.


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## ArvadaLanee (Jul 23, 2015)

Thanks, guys, for your answers! I am glad to know that I can help my son follow his dream. I am not against him owning a tarantula, but I just want him to get a little older. It's those stinging hairs that worry me, not so much the bite. I was swarmed by yellow jackets as a kid, and stung by scorpions, and even a jellyfish, and I just have this thing about being stung now. Lol. I'm such a scaredy cat. It helps just to be able to tell him that other people started out the same way he did, I think. I had a silly dream as a kid, to work with big cats, but I had no idea how to get into such a career, and my family all thought I was crazy, so I just dropped it. It's important to me to be supportive, and let my kids know they can do whatever they want in this world. Even if that means spending more money than I'd like to on "bug paraphernalia" and eventually facing my fear of stings.  

Thank you!


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## MantidLord (Jul 23, 2015)

No problem! We need more parents like you, especially moms willing to go out of their comfort zone to support their kids. Be warned though, he may ask you to baby sit his pets if he ever travels somewhere. My mom was subjected to that and I came home to a huge pair of tweezers because she didn't want to touch the crickets. But everything was still alive.


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## aNisip (Jul 26, 2015)

MantidLord said:


> Hi Andrew,
> 
> Unfortunately there isn't a real branch focusing on mantids. For those few of us working on mantids, the studies vary from looking at their eye sight and more physiological questions to genetic/phylogenies (e.g. Gavin Svenson), to some questions regarding mating systems (e.g. Kate Barry). Unfortunately mantids, though really cool, aren't that "sexy" as study animals because they're pretty difficult to rear cheaply in the lab and they don't have a fast generation. I mainly study their behavioral ecology and do field work so I'm able to circumvent a lot of those issues.


Thanks for the answer (and congrats  ) ...it seems like behavioral ecology is a rewarding path to go down, regarding mantids. You get to both study them as a profession and care/raise/observe mantids all day long (and the papers you have to write too, I assume  ) Hopefully I can find one aspect of their lives to pursue and make a profession out of it.


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## mantiseater (Jul 26, 2015)

AndrewNisip said:


> This question isn't directed toward me Arvada, but I did...ever since I could crawl...I had a love for animals. While it still holds true, there is a slight preference towards insects. And now I'm on my way towards becoming one (after saying it all these years)
> 
> Back on topic:
> 
> ...


Julio rivera who researches mantids for project mantodea calls it a mantodeologist. He says you can make a name like that for any order and its not always a really official name


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## mantisman 230 (Jul 27, 2015)

Ahh I'm a bit late regarding the question, but a few bits of advice: 1 talk to a local entomologist and ask them what they do. 2 explore the area and see what kind of insects and spiders that you can ID, with the help of a guide of course. 3 Share the interest with others so that you can gain support as you have done here. I have gone from a kid who keeps mantids in his backyard to someone who works with the department of entomology for Virginia, all because I asked if I could help


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