# A Mantis I've found



## FendersRule (Aug 20, 2011)

I found this Mantis in my garage about 2 weeks ago up in Idaho. I've been keeping him (I believe) ever since, providing him with some yummy food and water almost daily. Very easy pet to keep and take care of.

He doesn't fly as he doesn't have wings. He's probably around 2 inches in length; a bit on the smaller side.

Anyone have any information on sex, or on classification?









He loves spiders:


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## d17oug18 (Aug 20, 2011)

Make sure he can climb upside down for molting and he isnt an adult yet, i want to say hes a male S limbata but i really cant tell the species, but im almost positive hes a male.


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## FendersRule (Aug 20, 2011)

That's great! Sounds like he's going to get bigger...since you don't think he's an adult yet?

He spends almost all of his time upside down hanging upside down in his case/cage.

He hasn't molted yet. He hasn't stopped eating whatever I put in there yet, either.


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## ismart (Aug 20, 2011)

Your mantis is a subadult female _Mantis religiosa_.


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## mantidsaresweet (Aug 20, 2011)

ismart said:


> Your mantis is a subadult female _Mantis religiosa_.


+1 on that.


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## FendersRule (Aug 20, 2011)

Cool!

So I should expect some hefty molting then.

When do I know that I shouldn't touch her? I mean, when is it obvious that she would be molting, and not just hanging upside just because that seems to be her preference?





This pic was taken over a week ago when I first caught her and kept her in a shoebox for a couple of days:





When will she be a full sized adult?


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## mantidsaresweet (Aug 20, 2011)

When a mantis has wings then it is an adult and will stay at that size for the rest of it's life (no more molting). A sub-adult means that your mantis has one more molt to go through before it gets it's wings and becomes an adult. Most mantis species take 7 molts to reach adulthood.

She will stop becoming interested in food when she about to molt (pre-molt) and her wing buds will be really swollen as well. When this happens just mist her some to increase the humidity to help her molt and then just leave her be to do her thing.

After she is done molting do not mess with her for a day (or 2 to be on the safe side) because she will have to recover some and dry out from her molt. After that time you can start to feed her again and she will be back to normal with a nice set of wings!


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## FendersRule (Aug 20, 2011)

Cool! Would you guys like me to keep updating this thread every other week or so?


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## lunarstorm (Aug 26, 2011)

FendersRule said:


> Cool! Would you guys like me to keep updating this thread every other week or so?


I dig the pics and would definitely appreciate any updates. B)


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## Ntsees (Aug 26, 2011)

As mentioned above, she'll be getting ready to molt soon when those wing buds of hers puff up. After that, make sure she is able to hang upside-down the top of the cage before she molts (fyi: mantids are not able to molt on the ground).


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## ShieldMantid1997 (Aug 27, 2011)

any new pics/ updates? I too enjoy the pics!


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## PhilinYuma (Aug 27, 2011)

lunarstorm said:


> I dig the pics and would definitely appreciate any updates. B)


+1


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## FendersRule (Aug 28, 2011)

I believe there's some emergency here.

I noticed that my mantis is lying on the ground. She isn't dead, but she is clearly molting. There' already a chunk of her skin laying on the ground, and it appears she's trying to climb up and move around. After I sprayed some misty water on her.

I don't really want to touch her. It appears that she may die. Is there anything I can do? I'd like to get her up to the top of the cage. Wonder how she fell down?


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## FendersRule (Aug 28, 2011)

Good thing I had a twig in there. She was able to latch unto the twig while I raised it out of the cage. I've got it sitting on top of the cage now. She's on it, and hanging upside down. I was able to get her in the right position!

I laid some cheesecloth over the twig and the opening, and moved it in the closet. It appears that she'll be ok? What a tough mantis! I can already tell that she's going to be big! Is she going to be damaged?

I believe I should keep spraying water on her, correct?


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## ShieldMantid1997 (Aug 28, 2011)

the water is optional because it could be good to increase humidity and if she drinks it it could help expand larger, i don't remember what it is that helps her do so, but its your call. maybe others will chime in and help?


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## FendersRule (Aug 28, 2011)

Taken about 10 minutes after I moved her in the air:


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## FendersRule (Aug 28, 2011)

This must be such a stressful time for an insect. Notice how she isn't even using her rear legs.


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## lancaster1313 (Aug 28, 2011)

I wouldn't spray her directly while she is trying her best to "set" herself and not fall.  That could bother her and make things worse. I am sure that she is already stressed out enough. You could just mist in a place close to her, for the humidity.

Any part of her may be damaged if she fell when she was soft. Only time will tell if she is OK.

Please keep us updated.


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## FendersRule (Aug 28, 2011)

I can't believe how big she is.....I hope she will be ok. I imagine a couple more days?


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## Ntsees (Aug 28, 2011)

Your mantid is still hardening up. Best to just leave it alone for now and not distract it. It'll be ok. As for the spraying, I do not think it's necessary. The spraying water could interfere with how the wings will dry up. The picture shows a normal unfolding of the wings and so that's good.

I can't say the same for other exotic species, but if you have fed this mantid well before the adult molt, you shouldn't have to provide moisture through spraying. One of my female mantids just molted to an adult this morning and everything turned out perfect. I do not recall misting it once in its subadult stage although I did feed it "juicy" food items. But then again, it could just be the species I keep.


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## FendersRule (Aug 28, 2011)

Thanks for the responses. She is doing well. I'll shoot another picture when things look different. They look about the same as the last pic. I can tell she's going to be a nice sized mantis. The molting process really starts quickly. I was expecting to have more of a clue. Haven't been in my office (where she is stored) in about 12 hours to notice that this all just happened!

I've been feeding her nearly every day since I've had her as a subadult (a little over 2 weeks). It's usually been nice and juicy things like moths/butterflies, spiders, House flies, etc. Anything I could find, basically.

I usually mist the top of her cage every morning. She'll lick the water off herself first, and then usually stick her face through the grates and lick some more. I find that she still likes water and usually goes right to it, no matter what or when she eats.

I've been misting the inside, without getting it on her. This may help with the humidity.

Am I correct that adult mantis's don't need as much food? Instead of feeding her once everyday, it will be nice to feed her once every other day! The wings are looking good. Sounds like I'm about 2 days away from being able to interact with her. As soon as she drops the rest of her skin (I imagine she's done shedding at this point...it seems to all still be connected on her foot), is that when she will want food?


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## lancaster1313 (Aug 28, 2011)

The skin should already be off by now, but you shoud probably leave her alone for a day or 2. Being that it is only on 1 foot, she may be able to remove it herself by the time she completely hardens.

If her wings look the same for a couple of hours after the molt, they will probably stay that way. Spread or deformed wings are not usually a problem for a captive mantis unless the wings interfere with walking or feeding. Females don't do alot of flying after they start fattening up anyway.


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## d17oug18 (Aug 28, 2011)

still looks like a male to me, long slender and thin usually means male, but i dont know lol


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## lancaster1313 (Aug 28, 2011)

I think it is a slender female, by looking at the pics at beginning of the topic, and in the first molting pic.


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## FendersRule (Aug 28, 2011)




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## FendersRule (Aug 28, 2011)

Is she just being lazy?


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## FendersRule (Aug 29, 2011)

Looks like she's going to live the rest of her life deformed.

When I walked into the office today, she was on the ground. The piece of skin is still attached to her feet; looks like it's making it harder for her to move around and to climb to the top of her cage.

He wings are also slightly deformed as well. I'll probably release her later this evening.

Terrible this had to happen. I thought I was doing a good job  

Do they sometimes fall from molting like mine did?

Is there anyone from the forum who sells mantids? I know you can get them on ebay. I'd like to get a nice big &amp; fat one....that hasn't ruined itself from molting.


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## Ntsees (Aug 29, 2011)

FendersRule said:


> ...Do they sometimes fall from molting like mine did?....


Yours fell? I see. Based on your second set of pictures, it looked like the molting was going well but I guess not. Oh well, we all have had our share of experiencing what you went through. Your mantid will live and breed if you keep it. But if you want a 100% perfect specimen, then ok.


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## d17oug18 (Aug 29, 2011)

Me, mantisplace, and mantispets all sell mantis, i think the only big species i sell is popa spurca. But try the other 2 sites for other big ones(i like smaller species, there prettier =P).


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## lancaster1313 (Aug 29, 2011)

FendersRule said:


> Looks like she's going to live the rest of her life deformed.
> 
> When I walked into the office today, she was on the ground. The piece of skin is still attached to her feet; looks like it's making it harder for her to move around and to climb to the top of her cage.
> 
> ...


This is just my opinion so do what you want.

If your mantis is able to eat and walk at all, she could still make a good pet. You can try to remove the old skin by moistening it and pinning it down while she walks it off.

A deformed mantis won't do well in the wild, but can still be fine in captivity as long as it can catch prey.  

You can still get some good looking specimens and have her, if it is not too much trouble.


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## FendersRule (Aug 29, 2011)

I'll wet it down and try to see if I can get her to remove it when I get home from work.

If not, then I'll just have to release her and start afresh. It's not going to be a fun pet (no one is going to want to touch it, especially me) when she's dragging along a dead exoskeleton; I'm sure people can understand this decision. The deformed wings are one thing, but that's just kinda...well...you know...gross. It's sad, too.

I wish I knew why she dropped, because I'd like to learn from my mistake, if I indeed made a mistake? It all started Sunday Morning, when I walked in my office to find her rolling around on the ground with some skin stuck with her feet. That was when it occurred to me that she was molting (it's been 12 hours since I last seen her--Friday evening--and she didn't appear to be molting). Her wings haven't unfolded yet completely at that time during Sunday morning, but they looked like they were starting to (I just saw a wad of material that I was guessing was her wings). I was able to get her up to the top of the cage, and then left her in a good position (see the pictures from page 2). All day Sunday she stayed in that position. I was hoping that she would take care of the exoskeleton and that her wings would straighten out.

This morning, I found her on the ground again. Skin still attached. Wings still looked non-symmetrical. She was just kinda laying...trying frantically to climb the cage. She purely was in better shape a sub adult.  . I aided her over to a branch in her cage, and that's where she' currently hanging for the time being.

She's going to have to release the exoskeleton. There is no way that she will survive, either in my care, or in the wild dragging that along. I will see what I can do when I get home today from work when I wet it down, but no promises. There's little I can do besides add moisture, and use some very light pressure with some plastic bug tweezers.

I'm looking into a Popa Spruca or a Chinese Mantis if I can't get her back to good health. I'll post a picture later.


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## ismart (Aug 29, 2011)

Honestly, you should not let that mantis free, or dicard it! It is your fault this mantis is crippled in the first place. It will not stand a chance in the wild, in it's current condition. Removing the exoskeleton should not be a problem. Man up and take care of it, for the remander of it's short life. If your planning on buying any other mantids please do some more reading. I would hate to think you would continue to discard all the cripples, because they are not "perfect" due to your improper care. Please understand these mismolts do happen from time to time, even in the best of care. I do always blame myself when such things happen! Your mantis is really not in that bad of shape, not to live a full life in captivity. Please do the right thing.


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## lancaster1313 (Aug 29, 2011)

ismart said:


> Honestly, you should not let that mantis free, or dicard it! It is your fault this mantis is crippled in the first place. It will not stand a chance in the wild, in it's current condition. Removing the exoskeleton should not be a problem. Man up and take care of it, for the remander of it's short life. If your planning on buying any other mantids please do some more reading. I would hate to think you would continue to discard all the cripples, because they are not "perfect" due to your improper care. Please understand these mismolts do happen from time to time, even in the best of care. I do always blame myself when such things happen! Your mantis is really not in that bad of shape, not to live a full life in captivity. Please do the right thing.


+1 to that.

She was a "cool mantis" until her unfortunate accident.


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## FendersRule (Aug 29, 2011)

ismart said:


> Honestly, you should not let that mantis free, or dicard it! It is your fault this mantis is crippled in the first place. It will not stand a chance in the wild, in it's current condition. Removing the exoskeleton should not be a problem. Man up and take care of it, for the remander of it's short life. If your planning on buying any other mantids please do some more reading. I would hate to think you would continue to discard all the cripples, because they are not "perfect" due to your improper care. Please understand these mismolts do happen from time to time, even in the best of care. I do always blame myself when such things happen! Your mantis is really not in that bad of shape, not to live a full life in captivity. Please do the right thing.


This post is full of hate. Honestly, I don't know what more "reading" would have done in this situation. Like you said, mismolts happen, even in the "best of care," which is what I believe I provided. No one is saying anything about having a "perfect" mantid. Not sure how my care was "improper." You're making some horribly, pretentious statements. I wouldn't pressure, nor blame anyone for not keeping an insect for which it's exoskeleton can't be removed. As I've said, I can only do what I can do with some water and tweezers when I get home today.


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## lancaster1313 (Aug 29, 2011)

If you end up with an exotic species and it doesn't come out perfect, I hope you have an alternative means of disposal or euthanization, as it is not recomended to release them.


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## ismart (Aug 29, 2011)

FendersRule said:


> If not, then I'll just have to release her and start afresh. It's not going to be a fun pet (no one is going to want to touch it, especially me) when she's dragging along a dead exoskeleton; I'm sure people can understand this decision. The deformed wings are one thing, but that's just kinda...well...you know...gross. It's sad, too.


This above paragraph is just plain horrible! :angry: 



FendersRule said:


> This post is full of hate. Honestly, I don't know what more "reading" would have done in this situation. Like you said, mismolts happen, even in the "best of care," which is what I believe I provided. No one is saying anything about having a "perfect" mantid. Not sure how my care was "improper." You're making some horribly, pretentious statements. I wouldn't pressure, nor blame anyone for not keeping an insect for which it's exoskeleton can't be removed. As I've said, I can only do what I can do with some water and tweezers when I get home today.


Your ignorance is unreal! I'm finished here!  Best of luck to you! Little european mantis!


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## Precarious (Aug 29, 2011)

Dude, man up. She mismolted because you didn't give her the proper materials to hang from. The smooth plastic of that enclosure is not ideal for a molt. That's what some reading could have done for you and this situation. There are plenty of posts discussing mantis housing. She would have done better in a simple delli cup with cloth or wire lid. Here's how it works; the skin must get a good enough grip to hold tight after she pulls out of it. If not the whole thing drops. That's what happened in this case.

The skin should pull right off her leg. That's not a big deal. Spraying her with water will not dissolve the skin.

There are a lot of people here with plenty of experience. Take their advice and don't get defensive when they point out that you're being unrealistic or inhumane. We know what we're talking about. We've all experience a bad molt now and then. I've spent months hand-feeding crippled mantids. Why? Because any living thing under my care becomes my responsibility, and I accept responsibility for my mistakes. I suggest you do the same. She's crippled because you locked her in a box with nothing to grip, nothing she could hang from to molt.

As a breeder I would have a hard time selling to you after reading this post.


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## Precarious (Aug 29, 2011)

FendersRule said:


> This morning, I found her on the ground again. Skin still attached. Wings still looked non-symmetrical. She was just kinda laying...trying frantically to climb the cage. She purely was in better shape a sub adult.  . I aided her over to a branch in her cage, and that's where she' currently hanging for the time being.


Exactly. Nothing to grip but smooth plastic.

The roof should be screen or twigs and there should be branches she can use to climb to get to them.


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## FendersRule (Aug 29, 2011)

Consider this thread closed from my perspective. Sorry for contributing. It's not like you know, I'd have feelings too about this.


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## Precarious (Aug 29, 2011)

d17oug18 said:


> Make sure he can climb upside down for molting...


Take note, FendersRule, this was the first response to your post and you ignored the advice.



FendersRule said:


> Good thing I had a twig in there. She was able to latch unto the twig while I raised it out of the cage. I've got it sitting on top of the cage now. She's on it, and hanging upside down. I was able to get her in the right position!


The twig was the only thing in there she could grip well enough to molt from. Too bad she was in the "right position" after she'd already mismolted.

I'm not picking on you. I'm letting you know what you did wrong so it doesn't happen again. You obviously knew she liked to hang upside-down. You were told she needs to hang upsid-down to molt. How can she hang upside down if she can't climb the smooth plastic sides?


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## Precarious (Aug 29, 2011)

FendersRule said:


> Consider this thread closed from my perspective. Sorry for contributing. It's not like you know, I'd have feelings too about this.


Yes, run away. And throw that "gross" mantis in the woods so you can hide your mistakes.

Thanks for contributing.


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## FendersRule (Aug 29, 2011)

Precarious said:


> Take note, FendersRule, this was the first response to your post and you ignored the advice.


And she had multiple vertical twigs in there, to which she could have used them if she wanted too. The FACT is, she spent 100% of her time hanging upside down on the plastic grates for the past two weeks. How could I have not known that it wasn't good enough, since that's what she's been doing?



Precarious said:


> I'm not picking on you. I'm letting you know what you did wrong so it doesn't happen again. You obviously knew she liked to hang upside-down. You were told she needs to hang upsid-down to molt. How can she hang upside down if she can't climb the smooth plastic sides?


If she's having to climb the case, then it's already too late. I was told that she needs to hang upside down to molt, which is what she presumably did, and how she spent all of her time. She basically lived on the roof of the case/cage. I guess, mantids cannot molt hanging on the plastic grates. This is the first I've learned of that. Too bad this information is like, nowhere.

I guess it's all my fault, and I'm a terrible person.


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## Precarious (Aug 29, 2011)

FendersRule said:


> ...Too bad this information is like, nowhere.
> 
> I guess it's all my fault, and I'm a terrible person.


There is a whole section here on Enclosures and Housing. You could have found this information there.

You're not a terrible person. You screwed up. We all do. Just do the right thing instead of running away from it. You said a few things that make you sound bad, but you obviously love animals. We're here to help you take better care of them.

Message me directly with any questions. I'll tell you everything you need to know. OK?


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## patrickfraser (Aug 29, 2011)

SHAME ON YOU!


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## ShieldMantid1997 (Aug 29, 2011)

I believe it is wrong to rid of a deformed animal when it was your responsibility. But at least you have seen your wrong. I have a violin who has a bad whole leg and its still a fun pet? I hope you keep her she really is a beauty. If you don't for whatever reason I'm sure someone on here would take her. And i hope you took up Precarious' offer as he really knows a lot and could really help you.


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## Ntsees (Aug 29, 2011)

You guys are responding to FendersRule as "dude" and "man up". By the writing, I somehow get the expression that FendersRule is a woman.

Also, to comment on the cage that was used, I've had no problem just using this cage type alone with no sticks inside. All my mantids came out perfect in every case. Important ---&gt; What I do is that I just place the cage upright on the width side (the glass width). That gives a lot of height and the mantid can climb up and down using the lid cover.


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## FendersRule (Aug 29, 2011)

I just rebuilt my habitat. I've wedged two sticks to the ceiling, and provided a fat ramp stick. This specific cage will house an L6 Popa Spurca (I have another for the other mantis).

I don't know what else I can do to assure that this doesn't happen again. Again, this was news to me that the mantids cannot use the plastic grate for molding. I've done quite a bit of research on this, and I haven't read anywhere that plastic grating = deformed mantis. This should be stickied on the forum.

A little update on my mantid: Upon pulling the exoskeleton off her leg (which took some effort), I found that her foot was actually damaged (bent backwards). She also has a deformed arm, along with her wings. Hopefully, I've fixed what caused this so that this won't happen next time around.


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## FendersRule (Aug 29, 2011)

How can it be gauranteed that the Mantid still won't use the plastic grating with those added twigs? Or would it somehow still be my fault.


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## d17oug18 (Aug 29, 2011)

You all sound really mean... Honestly... This is not how you should be posting to a new comer... Read what your typing and rewrite to make it sound nicer. Ive visited plenty of forums where people treated me like this and i never came again, make it educational while also making her want to read the forums past posts...

By the by fender, i saw you had cheese clothe, line the top with that instead of the sticks. That would work infinitely better than 2 sticks but make it ridiculously hard to feed lol.


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## lancaster1313 (Aug 29, 2011)

There are definitely ways to make a critter keeper work.

You can hot glue a piece of screen, some false plant material, or nylon mesh, into the top. You could also drape a piece of screen or mesh over the open container, then pop the lid on with the screen under it. Not the prettiest, but it can work.

Btw, I have had mantids that have molted fine off plastic, and some that couldn't grip it at all. Different species have different gripping abilities. I still like to rough up parts of the containers(to make a texture) or fasten something to climb on, just in case.

Please have a look at Precarious' topic : "Enclosures and Housing: The Basics" there are some practical ideas there, that may cost less than a critter keeper that needs to be modified.


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## FendersRule (Aug 29, 2011)

Taking some sandpaper to the top of the plastic grate could be a really good idea. Approve?

I can also super glue lots of vinyl fake leaves that I have.


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## Precarious (Aug 29, 2011)

I put this thread together to help everybody out...

Enclosures and Housing: The Basics

I should have included a part dedicated to critter keepers since they are the most readily available housing. You can make them work but they are not very good for mantids for a number of reasons. For instance, many mantids prefer blue bottle flies and they can get right through the top grate. Plus mantids hang from the top and the roof is concave which doesn't make for the best viewing. That being said it's easy enough to secure screen or mesh to the grate as likebugs and d17oug18 suggested.

As your keeper is set up now mantids will still try to molt from the plastic grate, and I don't think it is high enough for Popas to molt in. You'll have to judge that for yourself. Enclosure should be at least 2x to 3x as high as the mantis is long. Maybe go upright as Ntsees suggests.

It can be confusing dealing with molts because what a mantis can grip under normal circumstances may be too slick during molt. The best way to look at it is the tiny hooks on their feet have to have texture to catch hold of. Or they are forces to hook their foot _around_ the object which is much less secure and more likely to come loose as they struggle out of the old skin.


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## FendersRule (Aug 29, 2011)

If Popas get 4-5" long, then I should have a 10 - 15" container. This container is probably 10" high. It sounds like I should get a new enclosure to be on the safe side? Can slightly larger ones be found at any given pet store? Standard size aquariums are about 10 bucks, which may be a good idea, but I also don't want it to be too big, which I would think a 10 gallon aquarium is much to big for a praying mantis. I would suppose metal screen/mesh can be found at any given pet store, correct? (I checked your cool thread  )

I typically don't feed mantids by hand. My female sometimes will go after the insect right after I've dropped it in. Sometimes, she'll sit and wait for it to fly over to her and eat it. When she was a sub adult, I typically fed her one bug a day. With the L7 Popa arrives, I probably will plan on feeding it once a day. I have no problem buying bugs from a store, but I *MUCH* prefer going outside and finding them myself. I live in a location where I can walk outside, and can have something to feed my mantid in less than 3 minutes. Many times, it's moths, small butterflies, common spiders, houseflies, ladybugs, beetles, etc. I suppose the rule of thumb is still the same for the popa- feed it anything it can comfortably grab?

Molting still has be worried as heck. If I drop in a bug, and come back after 12 hours...and the bug is still in there...should I take it out? I've heard that leaving bugs in the case can cause the mantis stress if it's molting.

I'll plan on either gluing wire mesh to my current grating, or buying a hole new setup with a wire grated top.

According to the Wiki, Popas get "UP" to 3" long.


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## Precarious (Aug 29, 2011)

A 10 gallon tank is more space than one Popa can really make use of. I would guess 10" should be high enough provided they molt from the highest point. Some screen or twigs up there will encourage them. If you see them hanging more on lower branches you should rethink their enclosure.

I bought a roll of screen at the hardware store. It's way more than you will use right now, but it's good to keep around if you are getting into mantids. You'll probably find a lot of use for it.

You only have to worry about insects that can hurt your mantis while it's soft from molt. Crickets are the biggest danger. They've been known to eat them during molt. That's why it's good to take notice when a mantis stops eating to prepare for molt. Remove crickets before a molt if possible.

I think wild insects are the best. They have a more varied diet than captive bred, and they're FREE!  

Just be careful with spiders and try to avoid the helpful insects like ladybugs. Just a suggestion. I never feed mine honey bees either.


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## Ntsees (Aug 30, 2011)

FendersRule said:


> How can it be gauranteed that the Mantid still won't use the plastic grating with those added twigs? Or would it somehow still be my fault.


There's a very high probability that it'll still use the plastic grate. Somehow, it's just in the nature of mantids to want to get to the highest spot possible in a caged environment. With the setup, it'll be able to move from bottom to top and vice versa more easily.


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## FendersRule (Aug 30, 2011)

Great information!

I'll stop by the hardware store and get some mesh. I suppose superglue + mesh + plastic should do the trick. If the Wiki is true (that Popas don't get over 3") then I would think my current habitat is just fine.

It seems to be quite hard to notice when a mantid stops eating. How long do you give yours until you've realized that they've stopped eating? 12 hours seems to be what I go by (if I drop a bug in the evening, and come back the next morning and if the bug is still in there, then I can usually assume that the mantid is preparing for a mold).

Ever feed a mantis a dragon fly? Toughest part is trying to catch one of those. Damn, they are fast.

Spiders I usually just play by ear. Typically, every single one I've found has been small enough to fed to the mantis without any worry. Check out the spider I fed mine on page 1. It's amazing how easy Mantids catch spiders and completely crush them. Spiders have literally no chance with Mantids (unless you are irresponsible and feed them something 2x + their size). I usually stay away from wasps and bees, even though I have many wasps outside of my place now. I tried putting in a wasp with the mantis one day, and it just didn't look like the Mantis was having fun with it. Looked a bit dangerous, so I removed it and now I don't mess with bees/wasps for mantis food anymore.

Glad that you didn't say that I had to go out and buy a certain type of food. Part of the fun of having a mantis is hunting down the food yourself. Then, you get to enjoy watching it get consumed, and it's kinda rewarding for your own work, too  It's quite an interested food-chain thing. Human catches food for Mantis -&gt; Mantis eats food.


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## Precarious (Aug 30, 2011)

Depends on the species when it comes to wasps. Many that I keep prefer flying food and they love wasps. I've been told dragonflies are iffy because they are predatory themselves and can bite pretty good.

A mantis doesn't necessarily need to eat every day. Take note of the size of their abdomen. You can tell if and when they need food that way. You don't want to over stuff them, but the abdomen should look nice and full after a good meal. You can give smaller food in the following days or feed big meals only a couple times a week. Once you track that for a while you'll be able to tell if it's unusual if they stop eating.

You'll see other indications a molt is coming too. You'll see them hang with their raptor claws extended in front of them. And if they're sub-adult you see their wing bugs swell.


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## FendersRule (Aug 30, 2011)

Good info. Thanks for the help.


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## Precarious (Aug 30, 2011)

FendersRule said:


> Good info. Thanks for the help.


No problem. I wish I'd seen this post before you had a problem. Maybe we could have avoided it. Sorry about your mantis.  

Popas are very hardy and forgiving. You shouldn't have any problems with them.


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## FendersRule (Aug 30, 2011)

Yea. A very sad day for me today and I'm glad it's almost over. I really loved my mantid, and she really warmed up to me in no time. Looked forward to coming home and feeding it, and holding it once in awhile.   There's always tomorrow, which I'm able to now avoid the problem from here on out. Either way, it's best to be safe than sorry, and tomorrow is always a fresh start.  

She's doing ok. Not sure how long she can make it in her current state, though.


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## Precarious (Aug 30, 2011)

FendersRule said:


> She's doing ok. Not sure how long she can make it in her current state, though.


She'll be fine. She won't be perfect but she will do OK. You can keep her in a small container and just throw her some food now and then. I don't think she'll be too much trouble. Looks like she can walk and use her claws. If her mouth is malformed and she can't eat then she won't last long, but I would guess she was just about all the way out of the skin when she fell. Give her a few days to recover then offer some food and see how it goes.


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## PhilinYuma (Aug 30, 2011)

Precarious and the other kindly soulls here have tried to help you. Precarious says, rightly, that he is not picking on you; I am. First, you fail to care for your mantis properly, despite help, notably Doug's, from this forum. Secondly, when it is crippled and no longer "cute", you want neither to care for it, and it certainly seems salvageable, nor kill it. Instead, you want to put it out in the wild where it will be eaten, if it is lucky, or starve to death, if it is not, just so that you can pretend that you are being humane. You don't care if it dies, as it certainly will; you just don't want to see it happen.And then you abandoned the thread, just like you are about to abandon the mantis, rather than face your responsibility

What angered me most, though, was your saying that Ismart's post was "full of hate". First, son, you don't merit hatred, a little pity, perhaps, maybe a small dose of contempt, but not hatred; that's for grown ups.. Secondly, Ismart has been giving cheerful, friendly, expert advice on this forum for years and is always calm and understanding when folks like me are blowing their stacks. It's a bit late for an abject apology, but it wouldn't do any harm.

Precarious says that he would probably not sell you mantids. I certainly wouldn't, and I trust that anyone who has read this post will not, either. Collecting teaspoons is a pleasant hobby; your friends will be able to touch them without being "grossed out", and they amost never mismolt.


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## lancaster1313 (Aug 30, 2011)

@FendersRule, I believe that you were a little surprised and disgusted to see what happens when a mantis mismolts. It seems as if you cared for your mantis, but may have freaked out a little when things didn't go well for her. Personally, I was offended by the words and phrases "not a fun pet" and "gross". Also, that you were going to release a deformed mantis that could possibly have a decent life if cared for.

I don't believe that any mantis messes itself up intentionally. They are not one of the most intelligent creatures around, and many times we have to think and plan for them, just like most pets when they are not in their natural environment. I believe that there is nothing natural about most captive creatures' lives, but I try my best to give them everything they need.

I understand that you may have thought, or think that a mismolted mantis is beyond help. That is not always the case, but now that you are armed with more knowledge about their husbandry, you seem to be sticking around.

As long as you assume responsibility for your captive pets, I will have to give you credit for trying to do your best, even after such an experience, which includes the criticism you recieved from members.  

There are some bad cases where a mismolted mantis should be euthanized, as is mentioned in many posts on this forum. Some people do it because they are breeding on a high scale, and simply have too many animals to care for a cripple. Even Hibiscusmile, who keeps more creatures than I can even think about having at once, has been known to care for mantids that don't even have claws.

Injured creatures always hold a special place in my heart, and I hope to hear news about yours whether the outcome is good, or bad, so long as you try to care for her.

Another member stated that there are people who will be happy to care for her, and even touch and hold her, if you don't want to.


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## FendersRule (Aug 30, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> Precarious and the other kindly soulls here have tried to help you. Precarious says, rightly, that he is not picking on you; I am. First, you fail to care for your mantis properly, despite help, notably Doug's, from this forum. Secondly, when it is crippled and no longer "cute", you want neither to care for it, and it certainly seems salvageable, nor kill it. Instead, you want to put it out in the wild where it will be eaten, if it is lucky, or starve to death, if it is not, just so that you can pretend that you are being humane. You don't care if it dies, as it certainly will; you just don't want to see it happen.And then you abandoned the thread, just like you are about to abandon the mantis, rather than face your responsibility
> 
> What angered me most, though, was your saying that Ismart's post was "full of hate". First, son, you don't merit hatred, a little pity, perhaps, maybe a small dose of contempt, but not hatred; that's for grown ups.. Secondly, Ismart has been giving cheerful, friendly, expert advice on this forum for years and is always calm and understanding when folks like me are blowing their stacks. It's a bit late for an abject apology, but it wouldn't do any harm.
> 
> Precarious says that he would probably not sell you mantids. I certainly wouldn't, and I trust that anyone who has read this post will not, either. Collecting teaspoons is a pleasant hobby; your friends will be able to touch them without being "grossed out", and they amost never mismolt.


Will you give it a F*#@ing rest? Don't patronize me again. You have no idea who you are talking to. And sorry, you are _wrong_. Several people have problems touching insects alone. Several more people have problems touching deformed/crippled insects. I'm *fine* with it, but my pet is also here for interaction with my friends and family. Besides, have you even read past page 2 to know that I still have it? Don't even care, so don't even respond.

Secondly, you act as though I intentionally harmed my mantis. To you and the few others: sheesh. *Thanks* to the ones who remained understanding, and cool headed about this situation, which is most of you seems like.  

Definitely a NO THANKS (and a middle finger) to the people who act as though I _intentionally_ harmed my mantis, and deferred me as a "terrible" owner just because I let her molt on the top of my critter keeper, which a lot of people do. You people should be slapped every which way possible. I have no business hearing from you, so I don't care to see your response. Good day.


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## patrickfraser (Aug 30, 2011)

I feel sorry for that mantis.




That's some composure FendersRule. No middle fingers here!


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## lancaster1313 (Aug 30, 2011)

FendersRule said:


> Will you give it a F*#@ing rest? Don't patronize me again. You have no idea who you are talking to. And sorry, you are _wrong_. Several people have problems touching insects alone. Several more people have problems touching deformed/crippled insects. I'm *fine* with it, but my pet is also here for interaction with my friends and family. Besides, have you even read past page 2 to know that I still have it? Don't even care, so don't even respond.
> 
> Secondly, you act as though I intentionally harmed my mantis. To you and the few others: sheesh. *Thanks* to the ones who remained understanding, and cool headed about this situation, which is most of you seems like.
> 
> Definitely a NO THANKS (and a middle finger) to the people who act as though I _intentionally_ harmed my mantis, and deferred me as a "terrible" owner just because I let her molt on the top of my critter keeper, which a lot of people do. You people should be slapped every which way possible. I have no business hearing from you, so I don't care to see your response. Good day.


I understand that you are upset about the whole unfortunate situation, and can't blame you for feeling the way that you do.

I don't believe that any forum member thinks that you intentionally harmed your mantis. I hope that no one actually thinks that it was on purpose?

I believe that some forum members, including I, were upset and offended by what you planned to do about the situation, and because of some of the discompassionate comments that you made about the mantis and her appearance. Also that you readily wanted to get a new one, without putting much effort into finding the easily obtained knowledge and rearing techniques.

Don't expect to just have someone write a book, just for you on your thread, because you found a mantis and wanted to keep it. That kind of just happens because of our concern for the creatures.  

Much of this can be excused by your initial lack of knowledge, and a couple of good things happened from this situation:

You now have much more knowledge and preparation for keeping mantids.

You are planning to give the poor mantis a chance at a life?

Someone finally made a simple and practical tutorial, designed to inform newcomers, and some experienced mantid keepers, of some great ideas on how to design containers with the creatures' well being in mind.


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## PhilinYuma (Aug 30, 2011)

Definitely a NO THANKS (and a middle finger) to the people who act as though I _intentionally_ harmed my mantis, and deferred me as a "terrible" owner just because I let her molt on the top of my critter keeper, which a lot of people do. You people should be slapped every which way possible. I have no business hearing from you, so I don't care to see your response. Good day.  

Not just an obscene gesture, but a physical threat as well? Followed by a smiley face? Some of our kindly members think that kindness and understanding will work, but you and I know better, don't we? You have a long history of lashing out (acting out) at anyone who criticizes you, don't you? Kindness may be soothing, but it does not adress your serious central issues. You will be sweet and understanding until you imagine that someone crosses you again.Your obviously untreated issues are not my concern, thank goodness, but I wouldn't trust you near one of my mantids.


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## FendersRule (Aug 31, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> Definitely a NO THANKS (and a middle finger) to the people who act as though I _intentionally_ harmed my mantis, and deferred me as a "terrible" owner just because I let her molt on the top of my critter keeper, which a lot of people do. You people should be slapped every which way possible. I have no business hearing from you, so I don't care to see your response. Good day.
> 
> Not just an obscene gesture, but a physical threat as well? Followed by a smiley face? Some of our kindly members think that kindness and understanding will work, but you and I know better, don't we? You have a long history of lashing out (acting out) at anyone who criticizes you, don't you? Kindness may be soothing, but it does not adress your serious central issues. You will be sweet and understanding until you imagine that someone crosses you again.Your obviously untreated issues are not my concern, thank goodness, but I wouldn't trust you near one of my mantids.


And you, along with like, one other person, deserve that "obscene" gesture. Accept it, and let it sink in.

As I've said: good day, and I _don't care_ hearing from you and the other pretentious, antagonizing, crude, and patronizing cohorts. That includes about 2 people out of this entire thread. You included. Now, "bugger" off and allow the people who are actually understanding and helpful to chime in who haven't made attack to my character because of an accident. :blink: 

Thanks for the help to the rest! I've got a new habitat as of yesterday with steel grating.


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## minard734 (Sep 7, 2011)

It is Mantis religiosa. I can tell by the mark in between it's raptorial legs. It is a female. I am so jealous of this specimen  .


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