# Black Solider Fly Adventures



## Teamonger (Dec 18, 2016)

As soon as I found out that BSFs could be raised indoors and ate mostly coffee grounds I was sold on attempting to raise them myself as feeders. Unlike blue/green bottle flies or other blow flies their is no horrible smell from the set up, rather its actually an earthy or coffee smell that is quite pleasant.

I have done a lot of research but didn't find much about BSF on the forum so figured it might be of interest to others if I documented my journey.

First of course I purchased some Phoenix worms (BSF larva) from a local supplier. I'm starting out with a 100.

The larva are very easy to care for. I just stole some used coffee grounds from work (I don't drink coffee), mixed in some used tea leaves, some coco fiber 'dirt', and threw in a slice of potato and they have been happily munching away for over a week now.

Second I had to build an enclosure for the flies so they could go through their life cycle. For this purpose I built this!







This is just a wooden frame that I used my trusty glue gun to glue a cheap curtain all over it to make a nice escape proof cage. 
The bottom front panel is secured by Velcro to allow for proper access to clean the habitat or add things when the need arises.
As you can see I also took a page from CosbyArt's large feeder tutorial and added in two sleeved access holes. I still need to add the sleeves but that should only take me another few minutes.

Secondly I wanted to make a bigger and better bin for once I have adults to lay eggs and hopefully more larva to feed.
Currently with only 100 larva I'm keeping them in a smaller container to ensure they can keep on top of the mold that would usually grow in their food medium. The seem to be having no problem at all in their current yogurt container.









This bin is the upgraded one I constructed. Cat litter bins have this lovely little stacking space in them that will serve wonderfully for drainage. So I grabbed two out the the recycling, cleaned them thoroughly, and went to work. The top one has holes for drainage to ensure the larva do not drown. The cardboard tied to the sides will be for the adult females to lay their eggs. BSLs do not lay their eggs directly on food but nearby it so you have to offer them something to allow them to do this.
The little windows in the sides are actually so the larva can escape. The food medium will come up level with those windows so that when its time for the larva to pupate they can fall out into some dry coco fiber substrate and do their thing.

And that´s as far as I've gotten so far. I'm waiting for my first 100 larva to begin pupating and I'll keep this thread updated with my progress.


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## CosbyArt (Dec 19, 2016)

@Teamonger Looks like you are serious about culturing them, so best of luck and please share your experiences as you progress.  

Many other members have asked about doing so as well, but the topics on the BSF is rather sparse. Only one member (soundspawn) that I am aware of cultured them and planned on putting together a guide on his experience, but like many others got busy and it was never made, and hasn't been around for over a year.

The only thing I know is the two biggest sites about culturing them are Black Soldier Fly Blog and BSF Farming (with complete build guides, videos, and forum). I figured if I ever get my current projects nearly completed and have my bug room setup I am going to try the BSF myself, and some other feeders that can be cultured. So I'd be more than happy to follow a guide than write one for a change.


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## Teamonger (Dec 19, 2016)

@CosbyArt Yup I have found most of those sites and have watched a ton of videos from people raising them in their homes, commercial set ups, and even a series aimed at farmers (which was interesting but mostly contained a lot of information I really didn't need to know). BSF are fascinating little composting machines (or their larva are) and I really hope I manage to get a colony going.


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## CosbyArt (Dec 19, 2016)

Teamonger said:


> @CosbyArt Yup I have found most of those sites and have watched a ton of videos from people raising them in their homes, commercial set ups, and even a series aimed at farmers (which was interesting but mostly contained a lot of information I really didn't need to know). BSF are fascinating little composting machines (or their larva are) and I really hope I manage to get a colony going.


Great. That is one internet problem, countless hours of information to sort through, and any that appear to be the least helpful usually offer the one gem of knowledge found nowhere else (the reason I spend too many hours sorting through data for projects).  

The larvae are super composters, and the few videos showing them in action is amazing (like the 2 pieces of bread vs larvae).


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## Teamonger (Jan 2, 2017)

I got my first black solider fly today! Still a long ways from a breeding populace but its progress! Here's hoping it gets some friends in the next few days.


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## Zeppy44 (Jan 2, 2017)

Grats and Woot!   Following this topic for future use. My original interest in BSF was in regards to farming and gardening.


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## Teamonger (Jan 23, 2017)

Small update. Learning as I go for sure. I did not give the worms enough food to eat so I have only managed to get a spattering of adults (like 3 to 5) at any given time and have not gotten any eggs as of yet. This weekend about 15 hatched all at once so I'm hopeful.

I have also purchased 500 more worms from a local lady to make a second go at it with more food and better humidity in the habitat. Wish me luck!


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## CosbyArt (Jan 23, 2017)

@Teamonger With five times the amount for your culture start this time, and your experience from the last batch I bet your have great success - best of luck anyway.


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## Teamonger (Jan 23, 2017)

CosbyArt said:


> @Teamonger With five times the amount for your culture start this time, and your experience from the last batch I bet your have great success - best of luck anyway.


That's the hope! Time to buy a whole bag of potatoes and toss it in there hehe. I knew they went through food fast but I underestimated how much the needed to eat to actually pupate. I was worried about putting too much and getting mold everywhere but seems I was just being overly cautious.


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## CosbyArt (Jan 23, 2017)

Teamonger said:


> That's the hope! Time to buy a whole bag of potatoes and toss it in there hehe. I knew they went through food fast but I underestimated how much the needed to eat to actually pupate. I was worried about putting too much and getting mold everywhere but seems I was just being overly cautious.


Might as well go for broke with it.  

The good thing about mold growth though is it is slow to start and usually grow. If the culture is checked daily any such molded food and substrate can be easily removed and will prevent a outbreak or problem. Best of luck, hopefully your have more than you'll ever use and can offer them in the classifieds to give other keepers a feeder alternative.


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## Teamonger (Jan 23, 2017)

CosbyArt said:


> Might as well go for broke with it.
> 
> The good thing about mold growth though is it is slow to start and usually grow. If the culture is checked daily any such molded food and substrate can be easily removed and will prevent a outbreak or problem. Best of luck, hopefully your have more than you'll ever use and can offer them in the classifieds to give other keepers a feeder alternative.


Its a shame the adults only live like 8 days but it might be feasible to mail the pupa like many do with the house flies. Once I get things going I'll have to experiment with keeping them in the fridge and the like to see how long you can keep them viable.

The internet seems to be saying that you can extend the pupa stage for months! So that's rather exciting!


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## CosbyArt (Jan 24, 2017)

Teamonger said:


> Its a shame the adults only live like 8 days but it might be feasible to mail the pupa like many do with the house flies. Once I get things going I'll have to experiment with keeping them in the fridge and the like to see how long you can keep them viable.
> 
> The internet seems to be saying that you can extend the pupa stage for months! So that's rather exciting!


That is great news if it can be done successfully, and one I would have never guessed.





The pupa stage lasting for months would make them a much more economical feeder for anyone with a mantid large enough to eat BSF's. Heck for the bottle flies pupa rate of about 3 weeks max, the BSF would last 267% longer in the fridge - sounds like it could become the main feeder option for keepers if there was a supply.


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## Teamonger (Jan 24, 2017)

http://www.blacksoldierflyfarming.com/forum/4-black-soldier-fly-discussions/1142-bsf-in-fridge-survival-results

This guy seems to have done some interesting tests but I was not able to find anything conclusive. Still something new and interesting to test.


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## CosbyArt (Jan 24, 2017)

Teamonger said:


> http://www.blacksoldierflyfarming.com/forum/4-black-soldier-fly-discussions/1142-bsf-in-fridge-survival-results
> 
> This guy seems to have done some interesting tests but I was not able to find anything conclusive. Still something new and interesting to test.


I see what you mean, and "After removing them from the fridge 85 days later I finally had one hatch into an adult BS" would be a impossible wait for a feeder.  

Perhaps with some trial and error you will be able to get a great pupa delay/survivability in the fridge, and a much quicker emergence rate to be usable as a feeder.


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## Teamonger (Jan 30, 2017)

I have roughly 20 or more adults in my enclosure now on any given day. However I have yet to see any matting. Did some more research and it seems to suggest that the issue might be the lack of actual sunlight. Thinking my grow light is not enough so I've moved them to the window and will see what happens. I've also taken to misting the heck out of the enclosure twice a day until I have some time to modify it to hold better humidity.

I'm going to replace some of the curtain with plastic sheeting to help hold in humidity. I'll take pictures of the changes once I get them done. Finicky little flies these.


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## CosbyArt (Feb 3, 2017)

@Teamonger In the meantime to raise humidity wrap the curtain/container with some plastic cling wrap (saran wrap). I've done it with one of my larger enclosures and it fixed the problem so well I didn't bother to change it.


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## Chalc (Feb 6, 2017)

Thanks for making a post about this! My mantids are going to be nearing L4 soon so I began looking for some larger feeders for them. I just tried my hand at waxworms but it's not really working out for me it seems. BSF seem like a great alternative. Looking forward to more updates!


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## Teamonger (Feb 8, 2017)

I might have spotted one pair breeding the other day. That or they were just messing with me.

Regardless I am fairly sure after moving them to the window and a few very sunny days later they are breeding in secret. There are a ton of itty bitty maggots in the bin that couldn't have gotten there any other way. The breeding stock I started with came to me in manure which was not ok at all for my indoor setup. So using a strainer I washed all 600-1000 of the buggers before placing them in my used coffee grounds setup. The maggots I'm seeing now are so small they would have easily slipped through the strainer and been lost during the washing process.

The true test will be to see if itty bitty ones keep showing up!

I only managed to replace one panel with plastic before I got myself a flu and was down for the count for a few days. Should get back to that this week and have some new pics.


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## CosbyArt (Feb 8, 2017)

@Teamonger Great news!  Sounds like some late night BSF rendezvous then. Sorry to hear how your breeding stock arrived lol, I hope it wasn't as bad as I am thinking it was.


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## Teamonger (Feb 8, 2017)

@CosbyArt It was certainly one of the strangest and grosses things I've done in my life for sure. There was much bleaching of everything in sight after the fact! To be fair though I got the worms from a local breeder for much cheaper then I would have anywhere else so it was worth a bit of disgusting trouble.


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## CosbyArt (Feb 9, 2017)

Teamonger said:


> @CosbyArt It was certainly one of the strangest and grosses things I've done in my life for sure. There was much bleaching of everything in sight after the fact! To be fair though I got the worms from a local breeder for much cheaper then I would have anywhere else so it was worth a bit of disgusting trouble.


That I would have guessed lol. At least it seems the trouble was worth it with the new larvae.


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## Teamonger (Feb 9, 2017)

Quick pic of the copious amount of flies I currently have. 

The L5 I choose as a guinea pig hasn't found the courage to anything but stare intently at the BSF I put in its habitat so far.


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## nirotorin (Feb 15, 2017)

I have been interested in doing this again myself after a not very successful attempt many years ago. I watched a video of a Chinese college student last year who had a lot of good info, and great success breeding indoors. I believe he said they breed best at a certain temp in the 80's. I'll see if I can find, and post his videos later today.


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## Teamonger (Feb 15, 2017)

I forgot to update this thread. Since I put the enclosure in the window I have confirmed breeding and a ton of little worms wiggling about in the dirt. My adult population has also exploded and I am feeding them to my mantises with no issues. One thing I will say about them as a feeder though is that the mantises don't like eating their tough exoskeleton which makes for a bit more mess then say a bluebottle fly which they tend to eat everything but the wings. Lots of bug bits littering the bottoms of the tanks. Need to get my isopods back to work and see what they can do for the problem.

I never managed to replace all the fabric with plastic so it looks like just natural sunlight was the key factor I was missing not humidity.

Still no smell although the fabric is getting a bit grimy in places. I might replace it with screen that is less likely to mold in the near future to combat that issue.


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## Teamonger (Feb 21, 2017)

*Recap, Things Learned, Etc*

Natural Sunlight IS THE KEY! Without this no matter what I did I could not get the BSF to breed.

So I would say my initial setup worked lovely and still is. However there are a few things I would change in version 2.0.
1) Curtain material gets moldy/nasty so I would use window screen instead.
2) Should have sealed the wood in the frame as its also getting moldy/nasty
3) Need to engineer a better way to access the breeding bucket to get out phoenix worms and put in food. Thinking some way to slide the bottom out of the side on casters like a drawer and a garbage shoot like door (for the food) might be good improvements.




4) Make the bottom plastic. The bottom of my current cage is just the same fabric as the rest. I put a plastic bin roughly the size of the bottom in there with the breeding bucket set inside of that thinking that the worms would stay in the second bin. I was wrong. The worms crawl out of everything and get stuck in the weirdest places amid the fabric and the frame. This can't be good for my hatching rate.
5) See through front panel. Both the fabric and the clear garbage bags I used to keep the flies in are not overly easy to see through. This makes it impossible to see if eggs are being lain or much of anything for that matter. The front of the encloser should be either plexi glass or some other actually clear plastic for proper viewing.


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## Teamonger (Mar 7, 2017)

I'm going to be creating a version 2.0 BSF breeding setup in the next few days   Stay tuned for pics and more information on my progress.

There is now no doubt whatsoever that my flies are breeding. The breeding bucket is alive with creepy crawlies, nearly every tiny granule of coffee has at least one tiny baby in/on it. I can't put food in there fast enough, nearly anything I toss in there is completely gone within the day.

All my mantises are still loving them as a feeder with no issues at all besides a few of them being particularly messy fly eaters. And my reptiles/amphibians are loving the worms. I am loving these guys as a wonderful feeder for both mantises and reptiles. Match made in heaven.


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## Mishi (Jan 4, 2020)

Any updates on v2. 0?


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## guapoalto049 (Jan 5, 2020)

Did you feed larvae to mantids or just the adult flies?


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## Teamonger (Jan 10, 2020)

Mishi said:


> Any updates on v2. 0?


Unfortunately I have moved countries since this and now have the most basic setup as I don't have room for anything bigger and more elaborate. Maybe in a few years when i get house with a garage!



guapoalto049 said:


> Did you feed larvae to mantids or just the adult flies?


Both.


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## Introvertebrate (Jan 19, 2020)

Teamonger said:


> Unfortunately I have moved countries since this and now have the most basic setup as I don't have room for anything bigger and more elaborate. Maybe in a few years when i get house with a garage!


No longer in Iceland?


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## Teamonger (Jan 20, 2020)

Introvertebrate said:


> No longer in Iceland?


I am still in Iceland, but the first version was made in Canada when I had a lot more room to work with. I only have a tiny laundry room to keep all my feeders in now so my setup is bare bones. Just a mesh cage with a plastic bin in it.


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## Introvertebrate (Jan 21, 2020)

Teamonger said:


> I am still in Iceland, but the first version was made in Canada when I had a lot more room to work with. I only have a tiny laundry room to keep all my feeders in now so my setup is bare bones. Just a mesh cage with a plastic bin in it.


Got it.


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## kwright (Mar 18, 2020)

I appreciated this thread nonetheless! It was a lot of information. I'm currently experimenting with raising HF. A lot of my newer species of mantids are scared of my dubia roaches, even when they're much smaller than them. And constantly buying flies is more pricey than the mantids themselves! So here I go...rotting beef liver. But nonetheless this thread on BSFL is awesome.


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## guapoalto049 (Mar 18, 2020)

I found the adults are readily grabbed, but they are almost never eaten fully and often dropped early on. They may not taste great to the Mantids. Same goes for the larvae...I was really excited to try these since they’re much easier than bbf but it didn’t pan out


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