# idolomantis falling while moulting



## nympho

Both of my idolomantis fell while moulting into L7. This happened both times after they had finished sheding their skin and as they reached up to grab hold of the mesh they were hanging from (or tried to). I was watching them but not disturbing them. Lucky I was there to hang them up and no damage seemed to have been inflicted apart from a slightly curved leg on one of them. I cant think why this is happening now, when all their other moults went fine. When I went to pick them up they did not seem to have any 'grip' on my finger but eventually I got them to hang upside down on a peice of mesh to finish drying off. They are ok now but I worried about what will happen on the final moult when they are even more prone to damage if they fall, esp if im not there to help.

Do these have a reputation for doing this and what can be done to stop it? I feed them on blow flies and they are at about 30 centigrade during day; 23 at night.


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## ellroy

Hi,

I had the same with one of mine shedding to L7 and it ended up with the curly leg thing but its coped fine since. I have one which I think is gonna shed to L8 in the next day or so and would appreciate any ideas on a possible cause.

Mine are also kept fed on flies, around 30 degrees and I spray them once a day,

Thanks

Alan


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## Christian

Hi.

These species is "famous" for this. Change the inner architecture in order to offer them other hanging places than the mesh. Molting on the mesh above is dangerous. It's still not clear why, or why it just happens sometimes. The only tips I can give are: change the branches, avoid smooth surfaces (glass, plastic) in the neighborhood, use a large terrarium. And do not disturb them. If they felt disturbed and move too early, they will fall out from their exuvia.

Regards,

Christian


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## nympho

Thanks for the tips. I shall try to use your advice, but they seem to be attracted up to the top most part of the cage unfortunately. If I put some twigs so they are right up against the lid they should use them instead esp if there is not much room left to hang from the mesh. One thing I had noticed before relating to this is they keep lifting one or two feet off the mesh quite often and hang from two legs. This got more obvious towards the moulting time. This could mean they dont like the material for some reason, maybe the texture is too sharp and it irritates them or, as some insects can detect chemicals with their feet, it tastes bad.


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## ellroy

A couple of hours ago I moved my L7 idolo, which I thought was ready to shed, to a large mesh cylinder cage with added branches and as I type it is nearly fully emerged from its shed skin to L8!!! Has some clearly visible stub wings so looks like its sub adult now......fingers crossed it completes the shed successfully.

Has anyone else had a successful moult to L8 yet?

Thanks

Alan


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## Ian

Nice one Alan!!

Lets hope you get a good breed out of them  

Cheers,

Ian


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## Mantis Keeper

Let us know when it's done molting. Congrats.


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## ellroy

Success! Looks very good this morning after a successful moult. I kept a good eye on it all evening, once it was fully out of the old skin it held onto some of the twigs I'd put in the mesh cage.

They look more and more impressive after every shed.....I'll be feeding it as much as it wants now to get up to a healthy adult....pretty sure this ones a female. I have 2 other L7s and 2 L6s which should shed in the next week or so.


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## Mantis Keeper

Glad to hear it went well, congradulations on the succesful molt.


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## Devils flower

Hi,

Let me introduce myself first: I'm Steven from Belgium, I had mantises before and restarted in october when I saw Idolomantis diabolica on a fair here in Antwerp. I bought an L5 couple (both L7 now) and I have only one mission now: breeding them :wink:

An impression, my female eating a wax moth:







Now, the reason why I'm 'scanning' the internet: my female has some problems hanging down in her mesh cage. The same what Nympho describes:



> One thing I had noticed before relating to this is they keep lifting one or two feet off the mesh quite often and hang from two legs.


The two legs she hangs from are always the back pair, and she is constantly lifting her right front leg. I reckon the reason for this is indeed the structure of the mesh, so I'm gonna change that tomorrow.

Does anyone else (besides Nympho) experienced this and what type of material are you guys using in your Idolomantis-resorts  

Thx for the advise


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## ellroy

One of my L6 Idolos had an unsuccessful shed last night.....despite the 8 inch tall cage it decided to hang 3" off the cage floor! I've had to euthanise this one as its body and legs were twisted beyond use. My other L6 shed perfectly though in the same setup.

Alan


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## Tapos

i have no idolomantis experience. but with H.. grandis and H. mem the last molt is trouble prone. i found if i put the smallest metal window screen i could find in an arc, they would hang from the top of the arc, and move down to dry. it did not fix all problems, but it did increase successful molts.


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## ellroy

Had another successful shed to L8 today. The pics aren't great as I didn't want to disturb it yet but you get an idea of the layout which I have had success with. They are fake Ivy plants, when I first saw it, the prey catching legs were also streched out and haning onto the ivy.
















Perhaps it will give other Idolo keepers some ideas,

Cheers

Alan


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## Devils flower

Nice Ellroy, I'm expecting mine to become L8 within a week or so (male within a day or two, female a little later).

Nervous times are beginning.

My female still hangs with 2 or 3 legs on the ceiling which I changed over a month ago from mesh to mesh with grass attached to (so that the mesh is almost totally covered). A fellow belgian hobbyist advised this but I don' think it is having much effect. In the beginning it was ok but now it is again posing problems. Anybody suggestions?

I'll post pictures of my new setup, and a -hopefully- succesful moult soon.


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## nympho

what i'm gonna do is cut a piece of plywood to match the roof mesh and drill lots of holes in it. this way the mantis can go to the top of the cage as usual and still get a good foot hold on a natural material. i've noticed them hanging by three feet again (also alot of foot cleaning) so they may be moulting soon (been three weeks since the last time). i've tried sticks as perches but they are pretty much ignored in favour of the top and sides, but i'll leave them in anyway.

can someone tell me the age of mine - is he a pre-adult nymph?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/macu...ca/PC050338.jpg

he is 2cm across the thorax shield.

thought i'd also post some pics of my mantis cage taken during construction. it is a small hexegon aquarium which i have divided into 6 partitions and made the wooden and mesh lids. i cannot really recommend this as its much work, although it is very neat and compact and is a good way of displaying them (i also hate lots of cages everywhere, each needing heat mats etc). it has one heatmat sandwiched vertically in the center between 2 wire mesh screens and also has a 15watt lightbulb above to serve the six partitions. there is a feeding hole for each partition which means the lids do not have to be removed for feeding each mantid (just pop a fly in and the mantis zaps it!). Its good cos they dont have to be disturbed while feeding them. there are six ventilation holes in the lid and the partitions can be removed to make two large areas.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/macu...ca/PC200361.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/macu...diabolica/3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/macu...inishedcage.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/macu...ctredisplay.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/macu...iabolica/L8.jpg

this pic was taken before it fell while moulting

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/macu...lica/L7shed.jpg

while i'm at it this is a pic showing the growth of a mantis. taken on the same twig each time!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/macu...ca/2a5bfe3a.jpg

cheers


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## ellroy

Unfortunately lost one of mine during its L7 to L8 moult last night. It was exactly the same setup as other successful moults. Shame when they get so close to adulthood. They seem to have such feeble hooks to support such a heavy body.


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## nympho

bad luck mate, how many have you got left - will you be able to breed from them?

i'm not confident about mine getting thro the next moult without intervention. They are such a delicate/fussy creature its a wonder they survive in the wild. luckily so far they have moulted during the day when ive been around.


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## ellroy

I now have 2 L8's and one L7, IF they make it to adulthood I would love to breed them....I guess it will depend if the adult moult is as difficult as the last one!


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## Christian

Unfortunately, it's the most difficult of all....  

Christian


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## antjoss

Hi,

These mantids are the strangest I have ever kept. Reading what other people have experinced I have found that leading up to a moult and just after, the mantids become very lethargic. So much so that they seem to be on the verge of death. They can't, or seem unwilling to, hold themselves properly with their legs all over the place and their raptorial arms held outstretched. Then just when I think they're about to die they make a miraculous recovery and behave normally. This only starts happening around L5/6 and continues thereafter. Last night a male moulted to sub-adult and this morning he was lying on the bottom of the cage looking distinctly ill with his face on the floor. As they get bigger it does seem that the moult takes it out of them, which may explain why some people experience mantids having problems and falling off. Mind are kept in a fine mesh cage on three sides with a perspex front with a few branches and thick twigs inside, which they ignore by the way. Once they get past the first 2 or 3 moults I only spray them to give them a drink, as humidity seems to be constant and temperature around 30C during the day. They eat flies fed on honey and sugar water. I can't for the life of me think why these mantis behave this way because in the wild they would make easy pickings.


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## Devils flower

Everything's going super here: today my female became subadult (L9) and yesterday my male (L8, you can see his antennae get thicker :shock: ). They are huge :shock: :shock: :shock:

1 moult to go and than I've got some breeding to do :wink: wish me luck

by the way: they are still on 27°C in all mesh cages (they moult every 22-25 days which I reckon a good average)


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## nympho

*update* One moulted to L8 yesterday. No problems with this one. My other one is going to moult soon but keeps falling to the floor - yes the stupid thing keeps hanging by one foot again for some reason, but there also seems to be an issue with the grip from its claws (ie it seems to have lost gripping power lol). Why do they keep cleaning the feet? An idea I had is they put sticky stuff on prior to moulting. If so it doesnt work :evil:

This time its hanging underneith a lowish twig and ignoring the top mesh. There is some leaves on the floor to break its fall; it just climbs straight back up again when it does - seems to know where to go, strangely. I didnt think they had a memory.

*update 03.01.06.* It stopped feeding about 2 weeks ago and i thought it would moult soonafter but it didnt. it seems to take forever in these mantids; every day i think it will do something but nothing. This one moulted getting on for 5 weeks ago and ate about 3 times as much compared with my other one (which often refused food). It got a very 'full' abdomen so maybe they have to clear the gut before they shed the skin. It might be a good idea to limit their food. A lower body weight may also help with the grip from the claws during moulting.

*update 04.01.06.* mantid shed skin last night - but it went bad. Front legs got stuck in the old skin for some reason - my theory is this was due to previous damage to those legs. I had noticed the walking part of each leg (the part that usually folds back out of the way) had been damaged and fallen /bitten off at some point before moulting. The scar left may stop the leg withdrawing from the old skin. May account for other bad moults that others have seen.


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## ellroy

Disaster last night! I thought my oldest L8 idolo was ready to shed so have been keeping a close eye on it. Went to check last night and saw the shed skin hanging from the top of the net cage and the new adult at the bottom. Suprisingly it had managed to haul itself off the ground so I thought it might have had a chance but this morning it was flat on its back.

Only the 2 left now and I think they are both females....will do my best with those 2 and see if I can improve my rearing technique for the future,

Alan


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## Ian

Oh No  

Thats sux...why did it die?

Im sure you can make it with the last 2 females..

Cheers,

Ian


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## ellroy

It didn't die but was unable to support itself on its legs or hang so I had to put it out of its misery.

Alan


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## ellroy

Have mentioned this in another thread but it leads on from this.....

Had one of my remaining 2 idolos shed to L9 successfully the other day. Its a female so has another shed to go til its an adult. Gonna try a few ideas that people have suggested to improve their chances of making it!

Alan


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## nympho

just got to mention my male ido became sub-adult successfully a few days ago. :lol: 

I thought he'd drop or get stuck but he managed it (with some assistance). One of his hind feet got 'de gripped' after he started moulting and gravity meant it dropped down to an angle that was wrong for him to get his 'new' leg completely out. I managed to lift the leg skin up with my tweezers untill the leg eventually came out. It was only very slightly bent :wink:


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