# Saying goodbye



## Sticky (Oct 1, 2012)

How do you say goodbye to your favorite mantis? And what do you do after?

I am waiting for some wooden boxes to arrive that I bought online. They will be coffins for my mantids I loved the most. The list includes Sticky, Sweetheart and

Honey. I will decorate them with a picture and put the mantids name on it. I will paint each one a different color.


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## jrh3 (Oct 1, 2012)

Flush them down the toilet or put in trash, it is a insect no soul. It will be replaced by another when the next ooth hatches.


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## twolfe (Oct 1, 2012)

After doing this for two years, it's still hard for me to say good-bye to my favorites. Yesterday I had to say good-bye to the last of my original Rhombodera cf. stalii. I had to put her in the freezer. She was close to a year old as I got her as an L4 in November 2011. I gave her total freedom the last month of her life, and it was always fun to find her in the morning. She was large so it wasn't too difficult.

Usually I say a few words to mine and then either put them in the compost pile or bury them.


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## Paradoxica (Oct 1, 2012)

I've buried a few in a potted plant on my balcony. It's interesting to think about the conservation of energy (energy is neither created or destroyed, it can only change forms). All of the chemical energy that was the mantis is being recycled and used to sustain other lifeforms.


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## Zoe (Oct 1, 2012)

jrh3 said:


> Flush them down the toilet or put in trash, it is a insect no soul. It will be replaced by another when the next ooth hatches.


Whoa there buddy. I see where you're coming from, but this is obviously an emotional subject for OP. You didn't have to add the soul bit.


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## Sticky (Oct 1, 2012)

I cant believe that they don't have a soul. My old mantis Sticky sure had personality and a soul! I spent 2 months feeding him milk, honey and bee pollen. And the others definitely feel something and feel enjoyment. Martha loves to ride outside on my hat. I hate it that summer is over. No more playtime outside

They certainly deserve better than to be treated like trash.

Robin.


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## Ruaumoko (Oct 1, 2012)

I always put my adult dead in the freezer to make sure there gone for good. This and to make sure the rubbish bag doesn't start moving due to zombie mantis in the middle of the night lol


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## agent A (Oct 1, 2012)

if adult and good quality, freezer

if not, garbage (if infected) or isopod/roach culture or tweezer fed (if freshly dead) to axolotl or toad


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## Golden State Vivs (Oct 1, 2012)

While I don't name most of my frogs, I certainly don't "flush them or throw them in the trash." I don't believe in "souls" but I do believe that the deceased have an energy that should be recycled into the Earth. I bury all of my deceased animals in my compost bin, so that their energy is not wasted.

jrh3 is obviously trolling you.


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## lancaster1313 (Oct 1, 2012)

I usually bury mine. When I had a lizard, I fed some dying mantids to her. I don't like the idea of throwing them away. There are a few in the freezer that I wanted to preserve, but I will probably bury them as well.

I guess I don't have it in me to pose and dry them.


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## Mime454 (Oct 1, 2012)

I normally put mine in the garden for the local ants. Ants are my favorite insects after mantids. Such hard workers and very intuitive!


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## kotomi (Oct 1, 2012)

I think people often underestimate insects... I believe they can learn, and I know that mantises the same species, age, size, and gender can have completely different "personalities", even if they are siblings. No one can ever really know who or what has a "soul", or even if such a thing exists. I just try to respect my insects (and all living things, for that matter) both in life and death. I'd rather return mine to the earth outside than toss them in the trash. I'm always sad when one goes, but unfortunately its just part of their life cycle and something that comes with the hobby. I take lots of photos of them while they are around, so I'll always be able to remember the little guys who were a part of my life


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## bobericc (Oct 1, 2012)

jrh3 said:


> Flush them down the toilet or put in trash, it is a insect no soul. It will be replaced by another when the next ooth hatches.


LOL

god maybe looking at you from the heavens, as tiny as you are, thinking the same thing, about you..


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## sinensispsyched (Oct 1, 2012)

I put my first male chinese in a jewlry box lined with cotton balls. Then, I put a silk flower underneath him. Then, on the lid, I drew his face and put a few word on there.


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## brancsikia339 (Oct 1, 2012)

I don;t care if mantids are just insects. They are very special to me and their personalities show. They defintiely have a soul and I would never dare think about throwing mine in the trash. I usually bury mine either in nothing or in my own little wooden box that i fill with salt so they are preserved.


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## agent A (Oct 1, 2012)

brancsikia339 said:


> I don;t care if mantids are just insects. They are very special to me and their personalities show. They defintiely have a soul and I would never dare think about throwing mine in the trash. I usually bury mine either in nothing or in my own little wooden box that i fill with salt so they are preserved.


i made a paper pyramid and mummified an egyptian mantis once


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## sinensispsyched (Oct 1, 2012)

I was going to do that to my chinese mantis!


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## Precarious (Oct 1, 2012)

Sticky said:


> I cant believe that they don't have a soul.


They do have souls. Not quite like human souls, but more of a group soul - a species soul. Individuation, to use the esoteric term, is a processes unique to humans. But that doesn't make mantid lives any less meaningful. You can tell who is empathetic and/or spiritual here by their responses. Some humans choose to be soulless and see other animals merely for their inherent material value. I don't relate to them very well.

I sometimes bury mine in the garden or sometimes just lay them in a flowerbed. I think both are respectful enough and allow their bodies to be recycled.


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## kotomi (Oct 1, 2012)

Precarious said:


> You can tell who is empathetic and/or spiritual here by their responses. Some humans choose to be soulless and see other animals merely for their inherent material value. I don't relate to them very well.


Well said. I'm with you on that one...

One of my favorite quotes is "You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him."

I try to treat my mantises (and my other critters) the way that I would like to be treated myself, with love and respect.


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## Mime454 (Oct 1, 2012)

Precarious said:


> They do have souls. Not quite like human souls, but more of a group soul - a species soul. Individuation, to use the esoteric term, is a processes unique to humans. But that doesn't make mantid lives any less meaningful. You can tell who is empathetic and/or spiritual here by their responses. Some humans choose to be soulless and see other animals merely for their inherent material value. I don't relate to them very well.
> 
> I sometimes bury mine in the garden or sometimes just lay them in a flowerbed. I think both are respectful enough and allow their bodies to be recycled.


I'm not really sure what a soul is, or what someone without one would be like. I don't believe that there is a portion of us that survives physical death.

That being said, I view all life as connected. Not in some esoteric, metaphysical way, but in the since that we all share the same ancestors. To me, it is the ultimate beauty that a mantis and I share many of the same ancestors. For this reason I respect all life.


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## Krissim Klaw (Oct 1, 2012)

I bury mine all outside my window under the larger fruit tree I have growing. Often I use a bit of thread and large leaves to make a coffin. I like that it feels very natural and is biodegradable. Other times I have used pretty origami paper for the coffins. Sometimes however when I am still not ready to completely let go I will use little cardboard material type boxes that will have a touch more lasting power. Personally I look forward to being surrounded by my swarm when I cross over to the other side.


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## aNisip (Oct 1, 2012)

When I lose one, I recycle its body somehow...like for my adult male h membran, I tossed his dead lifeless body to a mocking bird who went and fed her chicks with him (he was put in freezer before this, and she (mocking bird) knows me, I once in awhile feed her a nice big ol roach or dying mantis...other than that, in the earth and then they go on to serve another purpose (in addition with filling me life with joy)....having said this, yesterday, I walked on the porch to see one of my h majusculas (L4 male) waving his raptorials (like a boxer mantis) and waving his flattened abdomen to try and scare an L5 girl almost twice his size...so I talked to him and said "honestly buddy, you would lose in that match, try the other L4 male, he is a fairer competition....(this actually happened) he stopped his threat dance, looked over at me, and then looked back at the female, and then just sat their and chilled. I then proceeded to thInk how cute he was .sorry for being all little off topic, but I believe in some sort of connection/energy that we share with these awe inspiring creatures...it is sometimes very hard to say goodbye...


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## Precarious (Oct 1, 2012)

Mime454 said:


> I'm not really sure what a soul is, or what someone without one would be like. I don't believe that there is a portion of us that survives physical death.


Your soul is the vehicle of your consciousness. You believe your body serves that purpose because you've never experienced consciousness outside of the limits of your body. The true vehicle is soul which exists with or without body. Science claims the brain creates consciousness. I say the brain is a receiver that allows consciousness to connect with a body. Mind and thought are beyond the measure of science. They can only measure brain activity which is not thought, but the physical receiver of thought.

Someone without a soul is incapable of empathic connection to other forms of life.

*Psychopathy* (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/ from the Ancient Greek ψυχή "psyche", -soul, mind and πάθος, "pathos" -suffering, disease, condition) is a personality disorder that has been variously described as characterized by shallow emotions (in particular reduced fear), stress tolerance, lacking empathy, coldheartedness, lacking guilt, egocentricity, superficial charm, manipulativeness, irresponsibility, impulsivity and antisocial behaviors such as parasitic lifestyle and criminality.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Psychopathy



Mime454 said:


> That being said, I view all life as connected. Not in some esoteric, metaphysical way, but in the since that we all share the same ancestors. To me, it is the ultimate beauty that a mantis and I share many of the same ancestors. For this reason I respect all life.


If there is no metaphysical connection then the material/genetic connections are meaningless. The past holds no value beyond informational without a metaphysical connection. Emotional/sentimental value is by definition metaphysical.

*metaphysical*

*Definition:* not physical; without physical presence

*Synonyms:* abstract, abstruse, bodiless, deep, difficult, discarnate, esoteric, eternal, fundamental, high-flown, ideal, immaterial, impalpable, incorporeal, insubstantial, intangible, intellectual, jesuitic, mystical, nonmaterial, nonphysical, numinous, oversubtle, philosophical, preternatural, profound, recondite, spiritual, superhuman, superior, supermundane, supernatural, suprahuman, supramundane, supranatural, theoretical, transcendental, unearthly, unfleshly, universal, unphysical, unreal, unsubstantial

*Antonyms:* concrete, material, objective, physical, real, solid, substantial


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## hierodula (Oct 1, 2012)

I bury all my mantids at the base of my plum tree. Its been mantis fueled for a few years now.I always like the idea of contributing to other things after you can not provide anything else. However, i suppose eating the fruits produced by their dead bodies is rather morbid.....


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## Mime454 (Oct 1, 2012)

I'm on a cell phone, so quoting the individual parts would take a very long time and probably still be inaccurate. We're probably not going to agree here, but I find this conversation interesting, so I'll continue.

If the brain does not create thought, why do certain people have very specific cognitive limitations? Certain people cannot recognize faces. Other people have an impaired long term memory. In certain cases we know which part of the brain is malfunctioning to cause these deficits, and even more extraordinarily can surgically modify the brain to cause these problems in individuals who otherwise wouldn't have them.

Do you accept the theory of Evolution? If so, were there humans who did not have this individualized soul? If so, did their parents have this? Why not? The difference between the generations is so small that such a small change that trying to draw the line should be impossible.

In my scientific view of the universe, my relationship, in terms of past ancestors and genetic material, with other animals is meaningless in the sort of ultimate sense to which you allude. It just allows me to realize that a part of myself is shared with other animals. It makes it more difficult to, say, classify human life as intrinsically more valuable that a chimpanzee's life. I say this because if one of the intermediates that used to exist were found in a forest, none but the most cold of us would be able to say that the intermediate wasn't as valuable as themselves. Then what about the chimpanzee?

I believe that emotions could not exist without sophisticated minds, and because of that, they are physical.


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## Precarious (Oct 1, 2012)

Mime454 said:


> ...
> 
> I believe that emotions could not exist without sophisticated minds, and because of that, they are physical.


As I stated, the brain is the receiver of consciousness. It's the interface between the physical sensory organs and consciousness. You are talking about an issue with the hardware which impairs the flow of information to and from consciousness. The problem IS a physical problem. It does nothing, however, to prove the brain is the prime and lone vehicle of consciousness.

I'm not going to get into evolution because it would be too much work just to state my perspective on it, and your question requires I accept the mainstream interpretation which I do not. What's more it is much too dependent upon speculation about what cannot be proven one way or another.

But as far as individualized vs species souls you need only go back as far as the indigenous tribal cultures which anthropologists and psychologists, such as Heinz Werner, found lacking a sense of separateness from family/community, objects and nature. It could be suggested spiritual individualization bares a direct link to development of Ego. Early twentieth-century anthropologist Lucien Levy-Bruhl stated that the essential characteristic of native peoples was their less "sharpened" sense of individuality. He noted their sense of identity was bound up with their community and they spoke as "I" when describing the group. You can see a distinct trend during the last millennium away from groups and toward individual states of being. It could also be suggested the Abrahamic religions mark the point at which Ego was realized into the human experience. They represented a break from nature, including shame of one's own body and sexuality.

Your value judgments are based on emotional value and emotion is not physical but metaphysical. That's the main premise I was trying to get across. Your presumption that emotions are the product of sophisticated minds is only a presumption and with no scientific basis. I'm not saying a scientist wouldn't agree with you. They have a vested interest in everything being reducible to physical causes since science can only observe physical interactions. I'm just saying there is no definitive evidence, which would be important when arguing from a scientific perspective.

You feel emotions and your endocrine system responds by releasing the chemicals that create the physical effects associated with that emotion. You suggest the brain calculates the emotional response making is physical yet in many cases emotions are very detrimental to survival and or rational behavior. Examples: Many people break down when faced with emergencies or risk their own safety (and that of their DNA) in order to save the lives of others. In that case do you think the brain works against itself or that perhaps emotions are not merely a mechanistic response to input data calculated by sophisticated minds? Regardless of our conclusions it could not be realistically stated that emotions are physical rather than metaphysical. Therefore, against your better judgment, you do feel a metaphysical connection to all life, and that's a beautiful thing.


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## Mime454 (Oct 1, 2012)

Precarious said:


> As I stated, the brain is the receiver of consciousness. It's the interface between the physical sensory organs and consciousness. You are talking about an issue with the hardware which impairs the flow of information to and from consciousness. The problem IS a physical problem. It does nothing, however, to prove the brain is the prime and lone vehicle of consciousness
> 
> *Information comes from conscious individuals. To say that consciousness itself is created independently from the brain requires a greater explanation than the human brain itself. Evolution presents a simple, explanable origin of the brain and potential organs more complex from the first cell. The origin of consciousness would need a similarly simple explanation or you would have created an infinite regression of complexity (the creator of consciousness must be more complex than consciousness...)*
> 
> ...


*Back on the computer, responses in bold. *


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## jrh3 (Oct 2, 2012)

the brain has filters that will block sense of unreality. What we see is transfered to the brains transmitters producing the real life affect. Without these filters we would not know existance from reality. Psilocybin will remove these filters producing a new life experience.


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## jrh3 (Oct 2, 2012)

Golden State Vivs said:


> While I don't name most of my frogs, I certainly don't "flush them or throw them in the trash." I don't believe in "souls" but I do believe that the deceased have an energy that should be recycled into the Earth. I bury all of my deceased animals in my compost bin, so that their energy is not wasted.
> 
> jrh3 is obviously trolling you.


Im not trolling new guy just speaking my mind on what i do with the dead mantids. While i enjoy mantids, i dont build emotions for them as they CANT return emotions. Its not programmed in the brain of a mantis to show affection or emotions.


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## Golden State Vivs (Oct 2, 2012)

You should learn to have a little sympathy for those that do form emotional connections to their mantids, as the OP obviously does.


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## Rick (Oct 2, 2012)

I tend to avoid getting attached to an insect with such a short lifespan. I might be upset for a short time if a mantis dies, especially if it died before it should. I don't believe anything has a "soul", including people. Dead mantids in good condition are kept in order to be preserved in my collection. Those that are not are put outside to be recycled back into the cycle.


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## brancsikia339 (Oct 2, 2012)

jrh3 said:


> Im not trolling new guy just speaking my mind on what i do with the dead mantids. While i enjoy mantids, i dont build emotions for them as they CANT return emotions. Its not programmed in the brain of a mantis to show affection or emotions.


though they may not have them physically, some people tend to get attached to them. Be sensitive to those of us who are


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## jrh3 (Oct 2, 2012)

brancsikia339 said:


> though they may not have them physically, some people tend to get attached to them. Be sensitive to those of us who are


Sorry i forgot most of the sympathetic ones are still children as yourself. Sorry kids.


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## Mime454 (Oct 3, 2012)

jrh3 said:


> Sorry i forgot most of the sympathetic ones are still children as yourself. Sorry kids.


Why are you so against people liking their mantids?


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## jrh3 (Oct 3, 2012)

Im not


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## Sticky (Oct 3, 2012)

jrh3 said:


> Sorry i forgot most of the sympathetic ones are still children as yourself. Sorry kids.


Yes I hope I am a kid. Life is not worth living at times without being a kid no

matter how old you are.

I found the cutest boxes for my mantids to be kept in. I will also carry this

childishness further by having one for the males who died in the line of duty  

I will work on them in the morning and try to share some pics.


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## jrh3 (Oct 3, 2012)

Sticky said:


> Yes I hope I am a kid. Life is not worth living at times without being a kid no
> 
> matter how old you are.
> 
> ...


 :wheelchair: :tooth: WEEEEEEEEEEEE


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## Bug Trader (Oct 3, 2012)

I do not feel any emotional connection for them and to be honest if people do they should probably consider that keeping them in captivity is in fact a very unnatural thing to push on them in the first place and it deprives them in one way or another as most fail to provide peak conditions for them. I also keep way to many to be able to follow one or a few individuals so I guess I look at them as a captive managment project and hobby, what dies and is preserved well I give away to collectors but with my knowledge of pathogens and transfer of them from one eco system to another and the risks I do not bury them outside or toss them on a compost bed I freeze them and we toss them on the fire whenever we are out burning in the yard.


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## Golden State Vivs (Oct 3, 2012)

That can be said for any captive animal (except cats and dogs perhaps). Are you saying you don't name any of your captive animals?


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## Bug Trader (Oct 3, 2012)

I have one thats named, but its a 13' manakwari barneck scrub python that Ive raised for the last ten years and likely will have another decade but I let my daughter name her other than that I have not named any. I learned quick when you have a couple hundred mantids the work involved makes it hard to focus on any one or two. Was the same for the hundreds of dendrobatidae I kept and bred for over a decade and thier life expectancy far exceeds that of the mantids. They are all great to work with and watch, but its just easier to tag each viv by species name and leave it at that.

Giving something a name doesn't add to or take away from the level of husbandry involved and the way the dead are handled shouldnt matter so long as its handled responsibly. I waited to post in this thread as I saw the debate coming, I personally hope to live this life to its fullest just in case theirs nothing after. I do not share the belief in us and all living things having a soul as I am more science based than religous. It doesnt mean I would tell someone else their prized pet is souless or they shouldnt do with it as they wish after it dies, just be responsibe. You should know all to well the risks if your keeping amphibians and frequent DB.


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## Sticky (Oct 3, 2012)

I don't have many, I have 6 mantids right now. I don't name all, at least not right away when I get them. A lot of my pets seem to tell me thier name. I hear it inside or maybe through something they do.

Sticky got his name when I was feeding him honey. He had grabbed the stick I was feeding him with and got it all over himself! He was so funny. Pearl is a very light colored giant asian. She has a pinkish almost mother of pearl spot between her eyes.

Some tell me nothing. I don't know why.


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## MantidBro (Oct 5, 2012)

Sticky said:


> How do you say goodbye to your favorite mantis? And what do you do after?
> 
> I am waiting for some wooden boxes to arrive that I bought online. They will be coffins for my mantids I loved the most. The list includes Sticky, Sweetheart and
> 
> Honey. I will decorate them with a picture and put the mantids name on it. I will paint each one a different color.


Once Majesty died, I washed the bad smell away with soap and water then let her sit in alcohol for a little bit. Then I put her in a small see-through container and wrote on it with permanent marker "Majesty Stagmomantis Limbata".

Wooden boxes sound nice and the decorations will be a nice touch.


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## CashPants (Oct 5, 2012)

jrh3 said:


> Sorry i forgot most of the sympathetic ones are still children as yourself. Sorry kids.


I'm 31 and I am more than sympathetic, as is my 29 year old boyfriend. If you form no attachments to your mantids, why keep them at all?


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## Golden State Vivs (Oct 5, 2012)

Bug Trader said:


> I have one thats named, but its a 13' manakwari barneck scrub python that Ive raised for the last ten years and likely will have another decade but I let my daughter name her other than that I have not named any. I learned quick when you have a couple hundred mantids the work involved makes it hard to focus on any one or two. Was the same for the hundreds of dendrobatidae I kept and bred for over a decade and thier life expectancy far exceeds that of the mantids. They are all great to work with and watch, but its just easier to tag each viv by species name and leave it at that.
> 
> Giving something a name doesn't add to or take away from the level of husbandry involved and the way the dead are handled shouldnt matter so long as its handled responsibly. I waited to post in this thread as I saw the debate coming, I personally hope to live this life to its fullest just in case theirs nothing after. I do not share the belief in us and all living things having a soul as I am more science based than religous. It doesnt mean I would tell someone else their prized pet is souless or they shouldnt do with it as they wish after it dies, just be responsibe. You should know all to well the risks if your keeping amphibians and frequent DB.


I don't intend to start a debate, apologies if my previous post sounded as though I was attempting to incite a debate. In fact, I agree with you, I do not believe in anything having a "soul." I don't name my frogs, bar one White's Tree Frog that my kids named Puddleglum (for all of you C.S. Lewis fans out there). I also agree that all deceased animals, native or otherwise, should be handled in a responsible manner. Solid waste should double bagged, and liquid waste should be treated with chlorine bleach, so as to prevent the spread of pathogens to the ecosystems these wastes come into contact with.

My whole point was that it was obvious the OP has an attachment to her animals, even if they are short-lived insects. Posters should have a little compassion, don't kick the OP while she is down by telling her that her prized animal has no soul and should be thrown in the trash (the first reply). That post accomplished nothing, a classic example of "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."


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## Bug Trader (Oct 5, 2012)

Golden State Vivs said:


> My whole point was that it was obvious the OP has an attachment to her animals, even if they are short-lived insects. Posters should have a little compassion, don't kick the OP while she is down by telling her that her prized animal has no soul and should be thrown in the trash (the first reply). That post accomplished nothing, a classic example of "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."


Agreed and thats why I made it clear in my last two sentences attacking those beliefs and feelings of others is going too far,

" It doesnt mean I would tell someone else their prized pet is souless or they shouldnt do with it as they wish after it dies, just be responsibe. You should know all to well the risks if your keeping amphibians and frequent DB."


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## angelofdeathzz (Oct 5, 2012)

Too each his(or her) own, you can believe or not believe that living things have souls, I tend to think they do and that energy gets recycled over and over as they die and a new life begins, of course you can't see or touch it but to me thats doesn't mean its not there. I don't name my mantis spare a special few that are older and more social with me, if you have a bunch of mantis its hard to become attached to each one equally. That said I do feel bad for Sticky as I have had a few mantis that I like alot and when they pass I do feel saddened for a bit as well, I think they call it "compassion" and its totally OK in my eyes.


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## MantidBro (Oct 5, 2012)

Sticky said:


> I cant believe that they don't have a soul. My old mantis Sticky sure had personality and a soul! I spent 2 months feeding him milk, honey and bee pollen. And the others definitely feel something and feel enjoyment. Martha loves to ride outside on my hat. I hate it that summer is over. No more playtime outside
> 
> They certainly deserve better than to be treated like trash.
> 
> Robin.


That's pretty weird for a mantid owner to be so unaffected by the death of their mantids. As if they meant nothing. Plus they obviously have souls - animals, such as cats and dogs, squirrels even, have been seen by mediums. If those animals have souls, wouldn't a mantid? Yes. And why? Because without a soul, they wouldn't even be alive! It's the energy of the soul that makes everything work. It doesn't just do it magically by itself! That's why when our energy runs out, aka our soul, we die! Because our heart and brain can't work without the energy. Otherwise you're just a sack of meat. These are MY beliefs, anyways.


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## Digger (Nov 2, 2012)

My current pet, Nikki Mantis, unquestionably has a recognizable personality. Certainly much more of a personality and more cheerful, curious disposition than my mother-in-law. And you don't expect me to flush my in-law down the toilet when she's cold and stiff - do you jrh3? (hmmmmmm...) I work in the physical sciences (astrophysics) and try to think and work empirically. This mantis is a person, I say. She watches TV for hours on my shoulder. She seems to hear (listen/react) to voice vibration (even though I believe they only recognize much higher frequencies, they may feel voice). And, you ever notice how you treat your mantises in a special manner, but look at the feeder crickets as completely different objects. Almost like the social status of the mantis was manor-born and the crickets were the lowest lepers (dirty thieving little creatures those crickets!!). I will hire a hearse when Nikki goes through the leafy gates.


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## Digger (Nov 2, 2012)

I named a lamb up at my Uncle's NJ farm when I was 6. Bout a month later, that cute animal was on an outside spit being grilled for dinner. No - they didn't say anything at the time but it is a true story.

Sticky - you damn well continue to name your mantids and perform burial ceremonies for the deceased. So will I.


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## MantidBro (Nov 2, 2012)

Digger said:


> My current pet, Nikki Mantis, unquestionably has a recognizable personality. Certainly much more of a personality and more cheerful, curious disposition than my mother-in-law. And you don't expect me to flush my in-law down the toilet when she's cold and stiff - do you jrh3? (hmmmmmm...) I work in the physical sciences (astrophysics) and try to think and work empirically. This mantis is a person, I say. She watches TV for hours on my shoulder. She seems to hear (listen/react) to voice vibration (even though I believe they only recognize much higher frequencies, they may feel voice). And, you ever notice how you treat your mantises in a special manner, but look at the feeder crickets as completely different objects. Almost like the social status of the mantis was manor-born and the crickets were the lowest lepers (dirty thieving little creatures those crickets!!). I will hire a hearse when Nikki goes through the leafy gates.


I also look at animals as if they are no less important than we are. Who are we to say, as humans, that we're more important than any other living creature? My mantids also watch TV, the movement stimulates them. And I think they'd be able to hear our voices so long as there's a noticeable vibration, which would probably depend on how close you are to the mantid and its' ultrasonic ear. And when my Majesty died, I put her right next to my bed in a see-through medicine bottle.


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## Sticky (Nov 2, 2012)

Sticky - you damn well continue to name your mantids and perform burial ceremonies for the deceased. So will I.

You bet I will! I can't imagine doing anything less.

I can't bury anyone right now, I live in an apartment complex. I will find a good safe place for them to be. A sacred place.

I wish I could share pics, I like the job I did on Stickies box. Its very cute. I signed up with flicker. Will try to post a link in the morning.


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## Sticky (Nov 2, 2012)

I have Sticky's little box sitting next to my favorite chair as well as my cat's ashes on a shelving unit. Hercules will also get his own box. I did not have him long but he deserves nothing less. He was a darling!


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## MantidBro (Nov 2, 2012)

Sticky said:


> I cant believe that they don't have a soul. My old mantis Sticky sure had personality and a soul! I spent 2 months feeding him milk, honey and bee pollen. And the others definitely feel something and feel enjoyment. Martha loves to ride outside on my hat. I hate it that summer is over. No more playtime outside
> 
> They certainly deserve better than to be treated like trash.
> 
> Robin.


Mantids feel, people just don't understand because animals don't speak their thoughts and say how they feel. They show how they feel through physical movements, usually.


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## MantidBro (Nov 2, 2012)

Sticky said:


> Sticky - you damn well continue to name your mantids and perform burial ceremonies for the deceased. So will I.
> 
> You bet I will! I can't imagine doing anything less.
> 
> ...


Nice


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## MantidBro (Nov 2, 2012)

Sticky said:


> I have Sticky's little box sitting next to my favorite chair as well as my cat's ashes on a shelving unit. Hercules will also get his own box. I did not have him long but he deserves nothing less. He was a darling!


That's a cool idea to place them in boxes.


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## Precarious (Nov 2, 2012)

MantidBro said:


> Mantids feel, people just don't understand because animals don't speak their thoughts and say how they feel. They show how they feel through physical movements, usually.


Exactly. Most people define value by how closely something compares with themselves. Lives, spirits and intellects take many forms. Very few are even remotely human. But if we are able to see past the physical/emotional differences to the core of the force behind all life, or if our concept of Self has transcended association with the physical body exclusively, we can recognize the link between all living things. And if our empathy allows us to experience life, even momentarily, through the lens of another life form we can see the similarities and recognize that subtle bond we all share.


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## Sticky (Nov 3, 2012)

MantidBro said:


> That's a cool idea to place them in boxes.


I have a link to my flickr page. I hope it works! It shows the cover of Stickys coffin.

http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/sticky2012/8104747876


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## agent A (Nov 3, 2012)

Precarious said:


> Exactly. Most people define value by how closely something compares with themselves. Lives, spirits and intellects take many forms. Very few are even remotely human. But if we are able to see past the physical/emotional differences to the core of the force behind all life, or if our concept of Self has transcended association with the physical body exclusively, we can recognize the link between all living things. And if our empathy allows us to experience life, even momentarily, through the lens of another life form we can see the similarities and recognize that subtle bond we all share.


i'm gonna go tell my mom that :lol: 

she will think i'm even freakier than she does now

but she's so narrow-minded, only caring abt the human species

personally i wish i was a creobroter or a frog of some sort rather than a human-like life form...


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## MantidBro (Nov 5, 2012)

Precarious said:


> Exactly. Most people define value by how closely something compares with themselves. Lives, spirits and intellects take many forms. Very few are even remotely human. But if we are able to see past the physical/emotional differences to the core of the force behind all life, or if our concept of Self has transcended association with the physical body exclusively, we can recognize the link between all living things. And if our empathy allows us to experience life, even momentarily, through the lens of another life form we can see the similarities and recognize that subtle bond we all share.


Well said.


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## devetaki9 (May 9, 2014)

It was so lovely to meet a kindred spirit in mantis adoration and love of animals Sticky  it was well worth the trip!

You know my feelings about these little guys and all animals so I won't reiterate it and bore our forum members, besides replying to all of the positive energy in this thread would take forever.

The negative energy(calling someone a child because you have nothing better, def a troll) just isn't worth wasting time over.

Now one topic I will reply to... If you believe that no living being whether plant or animal has a soul I would have to say that you have OBVIOUSLY NEVER worked a trauma or medical code and felt that person finally give up and let go of their broken meatbag of a body and soar away... I cannot count the times they drifted right through me even as my hands were still working on them.

It is, in my humble opinion a beautiful but sad experience that I am sad that most will never experience.

Whatever you choose to call it, it exists in ALL of us.


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## MantidBro (May 10, 2014)

if a mantid is suffering, i squish them, really quickly. i used to freeze them but then i realized that they die very slowly when frozen. i imagine its like being placed in the snow without clothes on. i honestly would rather be crushed by a boulder and die instantly. so thats what i do when mine are suffering. either due to a mismolt or a sickness. but when one is getting ready to die of old age, i just let it happen. i leave the mantid in the cage until he/she is gone. it doesnt seem to be painful for them. they just become slow and weak and then die.

i think anything that holds energy has a soul. according to me, thats what a soul is. energy. like a battery. some people might say, its the brain or heart that keeps us alive, but without energy, neither of those things would function. and i think after the body dies, that energy lives on. where else would it go? it wouldnt just disappear. i obviously dont know if this is true but its what i personally choose to believe.

i think all creatures and plants and anything on this earth is important. humans tend to think theyre most important but i disagree. who are we to say that we are most important? and why, just because we are intelligent? if you ask me, humans are actually quite foolish. we are destroying ourselves and the planet for money, which is basically, paper and ink. animals arent this stupid. they do what they must to stay alive and they have a purpose. for mantids, i think their purpose, is to reduce the population of pests. imagine if there werent things that ate insects? there would be no balance, earth would be over run.


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## devetaki9 (May 13, 2014)

I feel the same way about the freezer


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