# Laws against phasmids?



## geckoboy3 (Mar 12, 2011)

What is the specific law against keeping exotic phasmids? Is it just illegal to bring them through state borders?

I'm asking because I know someone in my state who has some exotics he got from a zoo "15 years ago" he says. He's wondering if they're illegal or not since he didn't cross the border with them. Would he need a permit? It's a big possibility that he'll have to cull his 1,000+ insects.

PS he raises them by enclosing a food plant(s) in a greenhouse. How, if needed, should he cull them without harming the plants but killing the eggs and sticks?


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## Colorcham427 (Mar 13, 2011)

I sent you a PM. By the way, mantids are also illegal the last time I checked with fish/game and wild life. Phasmids are just a well known "no no" as appose to mantids since we sell native species to help out with crop pests.

We really aren't supposed to be selling, trading, shipping, importing, exporting non native mantids.. lol


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## unicycle281 (Mar 13, 2011)

Really? I thought they only cared about the plant feeding insects (phasmids) and not so much the insect eaters (mantids). Interesting to hear mantids are in the same boat legality wise. Are there ever mantid busts or that sort of thing? What's the basis for an exotic insect to be legal/illegal. Tarantulas are legal, right? I looked all over the USDA APHIS and couldn't find direct laws on this subject. Does anyone know them?


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## PhilinYuma (Mar 13, 2011)

hisseman said:


> What is the specific law against keeping exotic phasmids? Is it just illegal to bring them through state borders?
> 
> I'm asking because I know someone in my state who has some exotics he got from a zoo "15 years ago" he says. He's wondering if they're illegal or not since he didn't cross the border with them. Would he need a permit? It's a big possibility that he'll have to cull his 1,000+ insects.
> 
> PS he raises them by enclosing a food plant(s) in a greenhouse. *How, if needed, should he cull them without harming the plants but killing the eggs and sticks?*


They now have this stuff called "insecticide". I believe. Some gardeners swear by it!  

Edit: we have a forum for regulatory issues called......Regulatory Issues.


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## unicycle281 (Mar 13, 2011)

Thanks for pointing me to that section, I honestly hadn't even noticed it!

So the gist of it is that its kind of foggy and keep at your own risk more or less? Not really legal. I guess I'm confused them why many exotic mantids are regularly advertised online whereas stick insects are not. Is it just that the mantid sellers are more risky? I still would like to see the actual like print version of laws governing importation and transportation of invertibrates. Would be really interesting to see how it allows for some and not others (tarantulas vs phasmids).


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## geckoboy3 (Mar 13, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> They now have this stuff called "insecticide". I believe. Some gardeners swear by it!
> 
> Edit: we have a forum for regulatory issues called......Regulatory Issues.


  Uh sorry it was late!

EDIT: It says "Second hand stories do NOT belong here."


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## Colorcham427 (Mar 13, 2011)

I spoke to my local fish/game wild life and they told me it is illegal to import any non-native species of praying mantis. I assume then it's also illegal to breed any, ship any over state lines, etc. etc.

In reality it's bogus. I had a friend I know tell me that he was told mantis are illegal because they eat our plants! lol

The only place in this country that some sp. could survive in are southern florida, riiiiight????

I personally think you should have to have a permit to keep a cat!!! Have any of you heard of a stray cat? Cats are commonly given away for free! And if you don't take care of them, they'll do what they do best and escape, mate, kill some birds and leave some at your front door as a gift for letting me stay the night. LOL


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## PhilinYuma (Mar 13, 2011)

It's a familiar theme, Brian: federal regulations don't match your particular needs, so they are "bogus". If your "friend" claims that a federal wildlife officer told him that mantids eat plants, I suggest that you strike him off your "friends always trusted to tell the truth" list. The reason why the import of mantids is banned has been given so many times, including recently by me, that I won't bother to repeat it. And by your own account, you are the one who got ripped off while trying to import WC African ooths, parasites and all. Tsk!

Many members of this forum adopt an interesting form of cognitive dissonance (holding two opposed ideas at once) regarding exotic mantids. On the one hand, they heartily condemn your suggestion (I am the only one who did not) about dumping 1,000 ooths in your neighborhood (they overlook the obvious fact that this occurs in any city that contains 200+ gardeners who release five purchased Chinese ooths each), yet whine about federal regulations that prohibit mantis importation, because the only US spot that, "some sp. could survive in are southern florida, riiiiight????" Does that mean that you can guarantee that no alien species can survive in AZ or CA? And if not, do you deeply care? I doubt it.

I know folks who are creative when filing their income tax returns. I know lappers (legal aliens in the U.S.) who sleep with an illegal (federal and state infractions) sawn off shotgun under their beds. I know folks who don't adhere to their nuptial vows as closely as they should, but none of them is foolish enough to boast about their transgressions on an open forum and blame the formulators of the laws for their problems.

I have a number of family and friends who are federal enforcement agents. We enjoy each other's company. They never ask me to incriminate myself and I return the favor. Go, do thou likewise.


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## Zephyr (Mar 15, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> I have a number of family and friends who are federal enforcement agents. We enjoy each other's company. They never ask me to incriminate myself and I return the favor. Go, do thou likewise.


+ 4.1 x (10)^3,000,000,000,000,000,000


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