# This is going to sound ridiculous...



## DJ_deejay (May 10, 2012)

But is it possible to create a "cast" of sorts for a mantid? Let me explain. My Blue Flash molted to adult last night but somehow he got his rapiers tangled and now his left rapier is crossed at a 90 degree angle under his right. I don't know if he will be able to eat since with it in this position he can't really use either rapier. He does let me gently move it to its original position without a fuss but I can't get it to stay, so... here's the plan...

If I can find an adhesive that is mantid safe I can cut a toothpick to the appropriate size and gently glue it to the mid-segment of his rapier. Once that is set I can glue it to his carapace.

Granted he won't be able to use that one rapier but with it out of the way he can use the other one and I think he could get along just fine (hopefully!!!) I have some aquarium safe silicone (for my fish babies) but I was worried that the fumes put off by it might affect his health in a negative way. I do have super glue but, again, I'm worried that it may be toxic... Actually I might have some liquid latex hanging around from a halloween costume I did a couple of years ago. Would that be ok? I have no idea what I'm doing, please someone I need an expert opinion (And I know euthanasia might be an option but considering this is my very first mantis love I don't want to give up on him)


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## DJ_deejay (May 10, 2012)

Actually... would jewelry wire work better? Instead of the toothpick? I have some fine point needle nose pliers and i bet I could get a nicer grasp on his rapier and keep it away from his mouth so he doesn't mouth the adhesive. Am I just daft?

Picture of poor Ni


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## whatislove (May 10, 2012)

Quite honestly i have never tried and dont know anyone who has with a similiar problem.

But considering he will probably die in his current state i dont see any reason not to try it.

Another breeder i know uses very small amounts of super glue on mantids with broken legs during moulting to help pin their legs properly so they dont slip.

'surgery' isnt uncommon on mantids, i just dont know of anyone thats had a problem like yours.

Either way though, he is going to not be able to eat and die, be euthanised, get the cast and die somehow from the materials or get the cast and live - unless you're going to hand feed him for the rest of his life i dont see a downside to trying the cast since the outcome is only going to be the same or better.


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## CoolMantid (May 10, 2012)

I would definetly try this! If you can figure something out and make a cast, I will find that very immpressive. All u have to do is hand feed him


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## Krissim Klaw (May 10, 2012)

I would personally give him a week or so before doing anything. I find myself constantly amazed at the adaptabiltiy of mantises when it comes to fixing their own problems. I would wait to see if he doesn't have a better solution for how to deal with the damanged limb. Perhaps he will simply chew it off if it gets in the way? In the meantime You can always hand feed if he is unable to catch on his own.


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## gripen (May 10, 2012)

Krissim Klaw said:


> I would personally give him a week or so before doing anything. I find myself constantly amazed at the adaptabiltiy of mantises when it comes to fixing their own problems. I would wait to see if he doesn't have a better solution for how to deal with the damanged limb. Perhaps he will simply chew it off if it gets in the way? In the meantime You can always hand feed if he is unable to catch on his own.


Yeah he looks fine. I have had mantids with out raptors do fine all there lives.


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## Precarious (May 10, 2012)

This sounds like a really bad idea to me. There really is nothing you can do to correct a bad molt other than make sure they get through the next molt which should fix the problem.

Using any kind of adhesive may be fatal - i.e. how will you prevent it getting all over the mantis including his mouth since the first thing he will do is put his mouth on it - and may actually CAUSE a bad molt when the time comes. If movement in any limb is restricted by the cast he may not be able to position it properly to enable him to pull out. In addition I can guarantee he will chew off anything you attach and quite possibly even the entire arm, which would be counter productive to your situation.

I would leave him be. He will survive even if using only one raptor.


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## DJ_deejay (May 11, 2012)

He just finished his last molt which is why I'm worried (no more molts so no more corrections)

He is trying to chew his arm off but he's having trouble getting it to his mouth. He's started chewing on his working rapier in frustration (I'm trying to deter this behavior, and no he's not grooming it he is honest to goodness trying to bite it off)

He can barely walk anymore. Because of the position he keeps getting his other rapier and his leg wrapped around it and he keeps falling.

I don't want to use any adhesive on his rapier, just on his carapace where he can't reach it (and I'm looking to make it removable so after time if it hardens in the right position I can remove it)

If he could use even one rapier I wouldn't be so worried but all he can really do with it is reach, but not retract. Should I just get him in a comfortable position so he doesn't have to move and just hand feed him the rest of his life or should I try and lift the rapier out of the way (of his leg, the other rapier, and away from his mouth)?

On a high note I did hand feed him today and he is very fat and happy


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## DJ_deejay (May 11, 2012)

ok, so... I went to the drawing board... and after a few mock-ups and a grumpy "test mantis" (I set it on his back gently to see how he handled the weight before trying it on the injured one...) I came up with a brace that is entirely removable, keeps the rapier in the correct position, holds his arm and the brace away from the mouth, easy to put on, allows him to walk/eat/climb/and regain control of his left rapier, and is wickedly stylish (accidentally lol).

Behold!

Mantis-Redeux 3000






Sorry for the crappy picture quality

I played with all of my adhesives but I wanted something easy to get off and instant drying (with no worry about smearing it all over him). And... Nail polish stickers I had left over fit the bill perfectly along with some fine jewelry wire and a touch of superglue to attach the sticker to the wire (and I have tested it gently and he helped test it after the first real test run when I didn't apply it solidly enough, it is entirely removable without any residue or damage to the carapace)

Hopefully after about a week in this thing he rapier will be in the right position and I can remove it. He can grip climbing surfaces and food with his right rapier but it holds it securely (and outside of some natural, gentle, none-toxic glue on his back -from the sticker- no adhesives have touched him). Questions? Comments? Am I weird/cruel for this?


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## maybon (May 11, 2012)

That is bloody amazing, you are a passionate mantis keeper that is for sure!


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## zack4211 (May 12, 2012)

THis is one of the most creative and impressive things i have seen when it comes to fixing a mismolt, congrats!


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## Rick (May 13, 2012)

Why not? We had a member here years ago that gave a mantis artificial legs. If the leg is useless I would personally just amputate it.


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## patrickfraser (May 13, 2012)

Would it be able re-form, even once the exoskeleton has hardened?


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## DJ_deejay (May 13, 2012)

I thought of amputation but I was so afraid of causing more problems and putting him through so much more stress (and mostly of bacterial infections). And... I'm not sure if it will reposition or not. I figured I'd give it a week, take it off and see what happens. If it moves back to the crossed state I'll just place it back on him and leave it on. He doesn't seem offended by it and I actually witnessed him catch a fly on his own about an hour after I put it on. Yay survival spirit!!!


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## angelofdeathzz (May 13, 2012)

I'm still amazed he sat still long enough for you to get the apparatus on the raptor? Must be some kind of mantis whisper going on. Just keep an eye out for discoloration of the limb as it could spread further, a mantis may chew it off to avoid this, and death as well.


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## DJ_deejay (May 13, 2012)

I'm watching him closely to make sure nothing bad happens to my little guy  

And he's the calmest mantis I have. I've been holding him and playing with him since L1. He just sits there and lets me move him wherever or do whatever


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## DJ_deejay (May 20, 2012)

OMG IT WORKED!!! I honest to God didn't think it would actually heal in the right position and I thought he would need it on his whole life... but he looked like he was acclimating well and he flexed the rapier properly, so I removed his cast... AND IT WORKED!!!

Behold!!!






He's using it fine and other than holding it out a little too far it has worked beautifully!!! He even used it to groom himself!!! YAY!!!


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## maybon (May 21, 2012)

Well bloody heck, that is amazing. I am going to try this if I need to in the future.


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## Mvalenz (May 21, 2012)

You have to patent this and market it. Completely awesome!!


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## Zedrael (May 21, 2012)

Wow, you are amazing! I'm just blown away by this!


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## minard734 (May 21, 2012)

OMG! THIS IS BRILLIANT! How can I make one?


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## sinensispsyched (May 21, 2012)

NO WAY! If I send an injured mantis your way, could you do the same thing? That is so #@!%$&amp;* amazing!


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## lunarstorm (May 21, 2012)

If I'm understanding this story/thread properly, this is great! I've never heard of anyone fixing a raptorial mismolt (of what appears to be a significant femur issue) in the adult phase before.

Admittedly, my skepticism alarm is flaring (sorry! maybe he would've self-repaired?) but regardless, I applaud your creativity.


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## angelofdeathzz (May 21, 2012)

:clap: You did great but the numbers say 1 out of 15 or less will be so lucky, if I play with my money??? Great job never the less...


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## Precarious (May 22, 2012)

lunarstorm said:


> If I'm understanding this story/thread properly, this is great! I've never heard of anyone fixing a raptorial mismolt (of what appears to be a significant femur issue) in the adult phase before.
> 
> Admittedly, my skepticism alarm is flaring (sorry! maybe he would've self-repaired?) but regardless, I applaud your creativity.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding as well, because misalignments after a bad molt are usually the result of the carapace hardening in the wrong shape. No amount of effort can change the shape once hardened. This leads me to suspect it was instead a muscular issue.


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## DJ_deejay (May 22, 2012)

He was on his second day after his molt and his rapier seemed like it was definitely going to stay in its awkward 90 degree angle before I did anything. I have been keeping their humidity a little on the high side (sooooo my bad) so maybe he hadn't fully hardened yet?

Also, I did not add the cast until I tried gently moving the rapier to the right position to see if it would stay or at least help it to harden in the right position. I wouldn't had done it if I hadn't felt that it would drastically increased his quality of life and I went into it fully expecting to have to leave the cast on for his whole life. The repair was not expected, but I wanted to see how it was about a week after the application (I didn't and am still hesitant to believe that they can heal like that...). I believe my baby was a wonderful fluke, lol

But it's been a few days since I removed the "cast" and it is still in the right position (well... almost. In my haste to fix his rapier so he could walk I accidentally set it a little too far out to the side so it's not right in front where it should be, instead it is sitting a little bit away from his body, but at least it is out of the way of his legs and the other rapier). Honestly it looks like... how do I explain this... it looks like his "elbow" (the soft part between the upper part of his rapier and the middle part) got twisted and was hardening. It still looks a little weird and puffed out at a slightly lumpy angle but it hasn't reverted. And also to clarify, he can groom both rapiers, his head, and his antenna but he still has problems grabbing his legs to bring them to his mouth. It takes him a few tries to figure out which leg he has grabbed on that side.


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## Meadow98684 (Jun 20, 2012)

You're a hero!


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## stacy (Jun 20, 2012)

Really impressive, so glad you were able to fix the lil one


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## Rick (Jun 21, 2012)

It is raptor, not rapier by the way. I am also curious as to what actually was repaired.


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## MandellaMandy123 (Jun 21, 2012)

Oh. My. Gosh. I can't believe it worked!  Congratulations!!!


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## Crazy4mantis (Jun 21, 2012)

That was the most amazing mantis story I have ever heard!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## Sneaky123 (Jun 29, 2012)

Wow. If I had seen this earlier, I could have saved a mantis whose claws both pointed out different ways


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## mantid_mike (Jul 17, 2012)

a couple days ago i almost smashed my female b. mendica with a lid and bent her arm backwards while doing so. i thought she was screwed, but i simply repositioned her arm back with a little push and she's fine now.


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