# Just An Off Feeling



## Curiosity (Oct 21, 2020)

One of my very pregnant mantises is acting incrementally odd. I just kind of have this feeling that something's not right. Little things - her energy level is incrementally lower, which I suppose could be her age, but by her abdomen she's still of childbearing age. I dunno. The cat care books I have advise that these sort of off feelings should be reported, and there's no vet I'm aware of that takes care of mantids, so I kinda self diagnosed what would be the most likely problem if my feelings are actually my subconscious noting something weird rather than me being paranoid after recently losing Klara and Peridot. I have had two mantises die of what I thought were pregnancy complications. Both were females in late stages of pregnancy. They became gradually more and more lethargic, lost their ability to climb, their abdomens became very hard, and then they died. In both cases I would frequently handle the afflicted mantis and then handle another mantis, or another mantis's food, and it didn't seem to spread, so I figured something might have gone wrong with their pregnancies. After finding out that mantises could become egg bound, I assumed that was what it was. I'm a little concerned Sassafras may be going down the same path. It's just little things right now, though, so would you recommend anything I could do to head off that problem? I'm going to start by putting some fairly thick sticks in her cage. . . any other preventative measures I could take that wouldn't hurt her if there isn't anything wrong after all would be appreciated. 

Here's a picture of the mantis in question:



Eating a mealworm. I got a pack of about a hundred at a pet store in, I think Moscow, on the 16th. Thanks for the recommendation, by the way, @MantisGirl13.


----------



## MantisGirl13 (Oct 21, 2020)

How old is she?

- MantisGirl13


----------



## MrGhostMantis (Oct 21, 2020)

Overfeeding can have something to do with becoming egg bound. Maybe feed less. When a mantis is that incredibly fat, don’t feed for a bit.


----------



## Curiosity (Oct 22, 2020)

@MrGhostMantis She's not eating much as it is. I am rationing out my 100 mealworms such that she eats one every other day or so. @MantisGirl13, she's one of my wild caught ones, so I really don't know (and I seem to have lost the piece of paper with the day we found her on it). My sister "Angeline" found her sometime in July, I'm pretty sure, and she was an adult then. That's the best I have to go on for her age.


----------



## Curiosity (Oct 22, 2020)

@MrGhostMantisGiven what I just said, exactly how much do you recommend I cut back? I have no table of reference for this.


----------



## MantisGirl13 (Oct 22, 2020)

She doesn't need to eat every other day. Cut way back on food, maybe 1 mealwork a week until her abdomen isn't so thick.

 This sounds like old age to me, so not much you can do.

- MantisGirl13


----------



## MrGhostMantis (Oct 22, 2020)

Yeah, cut back a lot. Mantids don’t need to eat every other day when they are that fat. As @MantisGirl13 said, 1 every week should work.


----------



## Curiosity (Oct 22, 2020)

Okay, thanks a lot. I don't really have any way to know how much I can cut back without hurting her.

By the way. I would like to ret con something I said about her age. I found that paper. "Angeline" found her on August 23, and she was an adult then. Sorry about the mistake. . . 

I always just thought it was natural for mantises to get that fat when they're pregnant.


----------



## MantisGirl13 (Oct 23, 2020)

Curiosity said:


> Okay, thanks a lot. I don't really have any way to know how much I can cut back without hurting her.
> 
> By the way. I would like to ret con something I said about her age. I found that paper. "Angeline" found her on August 23, and she was an adult then. Sorry about the mistake. . .
> 
> I always just thought it was natural for mantises to get that fat when they're pregnant.


Mantids don't get 'pregnant'. They make an ootheca, but it's not necessarily fertile. They do usually get fat though. 

- MantisGirl13


----------



## Curiosity (Oct 23, 2020)

I know they don't get pregnant in the sense of live birth. I was using the word to mean when they have all that material inside of them, and they kind of swell up. I figured since Sassafras hasn't laid her eggs yet, that was probably why she was fat now.


----------



## Curiosity (Oct 27, 2020)

@MantisGirl13 @MrGhostMantis She seems to be getting worse. Today I found her lying on her back on the floor of her cage and she can't seem to get a grip on the cloth on the lid. You can also see in this picture that one of her claws has suddenly gone missing.




I found something on her cage floor which might have been a claw. What do you think happened to that? 

There are also some weird red marks between a couple segments of her abdomen that didn't show up in pictures. I was wondering what those probably signal. 

This is her now:




She still eats, still drinks. Still moves, still tries to attack. Just seems less able to get around than she once was. It looks a lot like what happened to Klara recently. Normal signs of old age?


----------



## MantisGirl13 (Oct 27, 2020)

Yep, she's an old girl, on her way out. 

- MantisGirl13


----------



## Curiosity (Oct 27, 2020)

Okay thanks   I guess the smiley face looks a little weird. I guess I'm glad it's her age and not my fault or disease this time. I don't know. I feel oddly peaceful about this upcoming death. . . any suggestions for what I should do for her last days?


----------



## MrGhostMantis (Oct 27, 2020)

Also, she is WAY overfed. Like too fat. She likely chewed her own raptor off, it looks infected. I would say keep her in a smaller enclosure with hanging spots and a soft bedding in case she falls. If she becomes sluggish and starts to vomit or becomes very weak, euthanize her.


----------



## Curiosity (Oct 28, 2020)

@MrGhostMantis thanks for the reply. How should I react to the infection? Is there any way to treat that? And. . . not to be flippant, but, if she's overfed, why did she chew her arm off? I have been feeding her far less lately. It hasn't been long enough for her to lose weight. She already can't hang on cloth; I kinda figured that would mean she couldn't hang on anything. I could try using some tulle. Would that help? 

She's already. . . less active than she was. She isn't sluggish when she does move, but she moves less often.


----------



## MrGhostMantis (Oct 28, 2020)

No problem. You should amputate the rest of her arm. Clean scissors, snip. Can I see a new picture of her arm? She wouldn't chew her arm off if she was hungry, she chewed it off because it was bothering her. Take her off food for a week and a half, then feed a medium meal every time she is thin. She can't hang on cloth because she is morbidly obese and can't hold up her weight. I would say try to keep her on the ground for now. She is so fat, is she fell...SPLAT. I'm not trying to act rude, but she is in a serious situation she probably wont survive. What is her enclosure like?


----------



## Curiosity (Oct 28, 2020)

@MrGhostMantis No, you're not being rude. Um, it'd take more time than I have to put a picture up; it really hasn't changed much.

I'll take your advice on the food. She's been on the ground overnight; her enclosure is an empty ice cream bucket. I hot glued some large cloth scraps to the inside of the lid (such that they wouldn't cover the air holes) so that it would be easier for her to get a grip. (I put those in when I first got her, not a couple days ago, just for the record.) There's also a piece of moss in there that was added yesterday; don't really think that matters. Several holes punched in the lid.


----------



## MrGhostMantis (Oct 28, 2020)

That doesn't really sound like a suitable enclosure. Can I see it?


----------



## hibiscusmile (Oct 29, 2020)

She wont last long enough to worry about her arm. just let her be and she will go soon. sorry.


----------



## Curiosity (Oct 29, 2020)

@MrGhostMantis Sure.





Ice cream bucket from above.




From the side.




Lid from the top.




Lid underside.

Two of my healthy mantises are housed similarly.


----------



## Curiosity (Oct 29, 2020)

@MrGhostMantis I also did take that arm off. She sort of gnawed at the stump for a while, and it seemed to be bleeding the next morning. (Green fluid down her front.) Also she now has one tarsi. She had two yesterday.


----------



## MantisGirl13 (Oct 29, 2020)

Still sounds like old age to me, not much you can do about that. Give her some honey and lots of water because of the hemolymph loss. 

- MantisGirl13


----------



## Curiosity (Oct 29, 2020)

@MrGhostMantis The joints where her front two walking legs have turned a sort of pinkish red and that arm stump is still bleeding. . . what should I do about the red and is bleeding 24 hours after an amputation normal in bugs? She was chewing her one back leg off too so I took that off as well. . . was that the right call?


----------



## Curiosity (Oct 29, 2020)

@MantisGirl13 Is it probable that you're both right, and she's getting opportunistic infections in her old age?


----------



## MantisGirl13 (Oct 29, 2020)

Curiosity said:


> @MantisGirl13 Is it probable that you're both right, and she's getting opportunistic infections in her old age?


Yes, probably. Either way, there's nothing you can really do for her.

- MantisGirl13


----------

