# Blepharopsis Consolidated



## agent A

this is gonna work a lot like idolomantis consolidated, though it is for blepharopsis mendica!!!

i have 16 L3 nymphs, keeping in net cages with betula lenta branches, got them yesterday from tammy, very cute tiny little nymphs

keeping at 83 during the day, 68 at night, humidity is about 10% by day, 35% by night

feeding D.hydei and soon houseflies, when they eclose lol

anyone who has tips, questions or experience with these awesome guys please post here as well

here are a few pics of one:







close up of the cute face:






and this is real precious:






here is the caresheet for them from UKMF:

*Species: *_Blepharopsis mendica mendica _

*Common Names: *Thistle Mantis, Devils Flower Mantis, Lesser Devils Flower Mantis

*Distribution: *Northern Africa, Southern Mediterranian Europe, Canary Islands, Middle East. .

*Natrual Habitat: *Semi Desert, dry forest regions.

*Captive Housing: *General rule of 3 x the length of the mantid for height and 2 x the length for width, these mantids do best in all net cages as they are unable to grip smooth surfaces (a characteristic of all _Empusidae)_. Polystyrene box type cages also works quite well as the mantids are able to grip the polystyrene surfaces however you most ensure that the enclousure is very well ventilated, these mantids originate from hot and arid areas and don't do well in humid conditions, very well ventilated enclousures will help in keeping the humidity down

Furnish the base of the container with a substrate such as Vermiculite, peat/vermiculite mix, sand or best yet ordinary kitchen roll.

A single twig placed diagonally is the furnishing your mantid will need 2 get from bottom of the container to the top, if you have more room fake/live plants can be added but the general is not to overcrowd the container with furnishings as they can impede moulting and cause more harm than good in the way of the mantid being caught by the funishings while moulting, in most cases the mantid will spend most of it's time at the highest point of the enclousure (the roof) from which it will moult hence the importance of a mesh/net top to aid the mantid in getting a good foothold.

It's best not to keep the mantid in too large a container as these are ambush predators and will generally wait for the food to come to them, large enclousures will decrease the frequency of predator coming into contact with the prey.

*Temperature: *30C-40C daytime, these temperatures are easily obtained by using a normal 40-60W incandestant light bulb (Desk lamps are Ideal) above the enclousure, they also benefit from basking under the lamp. Do not worry about the drop in temperature during the night when lights are out and is in fact beneficial. The warmer the mantid is kept the higher its metabolism, this coupled with increased feeding will cause the mantid to grow quicker than at a cooler temperature with less feeding.

*Humidity: *Around 40% humidity, these mantids are best kept in hot dry conditions so they need for misting is not strictly necessary, however a very light mist in the early morning will replicate the formation of dew.

*Feeding: *Fruitflies (_Drosphilia hydei) _from 1st instar, increase the size of prey as the mantid grows, *Feed flying type foods only!* in the form of house flies, green bottles, bluebottles, moths etc.. on the rare occasion they will take locusts and roaches but these should not be used as a regular food source as the mantid matures crawling foods are more than likely to be ignored. *Important.* Do not offer _B. mendica _crickets like most other Empusa species these can have fatal results for the mantid.

*Moulting: *Mantids grow by Shedding (ecdysis) their skin, a newly hatched nymph is known as 1st instar and after each subsquent moult moves up an instar.

Signs of a imminent moult are a period of in activity, fasting, adopting a moulting postion and in sub-adult nymphs the swelling of the wingbuds, normally one or all of these signs will be noticed but they can at times take us by surprise.

Ensure any uneaten food is removed especially Locust and Roaches as the mantid can be vunerable when nearing, during and after a moult, either by knocking the mantid midmoult or the mantid becoming the prey itself.

*"Tolerance" Factor: *Are quite tolerant towards each other, even at higher instars as long as food is plentyful, however splitting the sexes is preferable. It is not recommended to keep this species communally if you only have a small number of nymphs.

*Adult Size:*

Females 55-70mm

Males 50-70mm

*Breeding:*

*Sexual Diamorphism: *can be sexed from 3rd instar onwards, due to the presence of a very small "hook" on the last abdominal segment of the male, this "hook" is absent in females

Females: 5 abdominal segments.

Males: 6 abdominal segments. From 5th instar the base of the antenne start to thicken, and become thicker and "feathery" after each subsequent moult.

Adult Females: Larger and bulkier than males, wing tips end at tip of abdomen. Absence of "feathery" antenne

Adult Males: Slender, wing tips extend about 10mm past tip of abdomen.

Thick feathery antenne.

*Mating:* Sexual maturity occurs as early as 2 weeks after reaching adulthood, they can be mated earlier but the chances of unsuccessful matings and the female attacking the male are significantly increased.

*Laying: *Females will in most cases start lay their 1st ootheca after 3 weeks of being adult, with intervals of around 7 days for each subsequent ooth dependant on frequency of feeding and temperature.

10+ oothca can be laid during the females adult lifetime.

*Incubation: *Approx 4-6 weeks (temperature dependent) mist incubation chamber very lightly every other day, incubation temperature around 30-40C. (I have had successful hatches without misting the ooths at all during incubation)

*Hatching: *Approx 20-50 nymphs

1st instars (hatchlings) approx 5mm insize, they will not need feeding till 3 days after hatching but will benefit from a daily light mist with warm water to allow them to drink, they will take _D. hydei _fruitflies as 1st instars. Very low hatchling/1st instar mortality rates.

*Additional Note*: This stunning mantis is not suit to people starting out in the hobby due to conditions needed to successfully raise them, however with proper care and feeding they are a very rewarding species.

i will add my own caresheet soon, after i finish one


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## gripen

cool thread i hope to contribute eventually.


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## guapoalto049

B. mendica is a slow-growing species. I've had success feeding mine honey fed flies coated with pollen, as well as scrap-fed lobster roaches.

They are very high strung, when touched they always snap their heads and begin a threat pose. By far the most athletic Empusidae I've seen, not wobbly and clumsy like Gongylus and Idolomantis. I've never purposely kept the enclosure dry, though I hardly mist them ever. I did not have success keeping communally, they seem aggressive towards each other, particularly at high temperatures.

This is a hardy species, no mismolts or special requirements (other than heat).


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## agent A

my heat lamp makes things bone dry lol


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## ismart

agent A said:


> my heat lamp makes things bone dry lol


That's okay, because that's how they like it! I kept some years ago! I ended up with all males though. you could increase the temps to 90F - 95F during the day.

They like it hot!


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## Termite48

I have my two L-3's together in a 32 oz. deli-container with the sponge designs as provided by SPOREWORLD. They are both now catching and trying to eat an entire BB. They are able to do that, but it is a big jump from taking down melanogasters last week, to HF early this week, and today as an experiment, the BBs. I think they are very aggressive eaters. I have seen no tthreatening postures from either of them toward each other.


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## gripen

wow i would not expect them to take down bbs! also sporeworld you really should sell your enclosures they are great!


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## hibiscusmile

They require no water, so do not mist, occasionaly u can put a drop on your finger and offer to them or a qtip, but if you mist them, they will eventually die.


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## agent A

I just spritz water in my room and a little eventually creeps over and makes their humidity about 35%, I'm sure its all they need


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## agent A

here are pics of some stuff:

net cage:











my hydrothermometer:






and my heat lamp:






here are some blephs in the net cage, sorry if it's blurry:






as a bonus, before precarious' fly method, i kept flies in a net cage, i fed them honey and when i smeared it on the walls, i rang a dinner bell lol:


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## meaganelise9

guapoalto049 said:


> B. mendica is a slow-growing species. I've had success feeding mine honey fed flies coated with pollen, as well as scrap-fed lobster roaches.
> 
> They are very high strung, when touched they always snap their heads and begin a threat pose. By far the most athletic Empusidae I've seen, not wobbly and clumsy like Gongylus and Idolomantis. I've never purposely kept the enclosure dry, though I hardly mist them ever. I did not have success keeping communally, they seem aggressive towards each other, particularly at high temperatures.
> 
> This is a hardy species, no mismolts or special requirements (other than heat).


I've had a different experience. Mine has never shown me a threat pose and has been very easy-going and docile. I also had a bit of a mismolt the day after I got him, losing most of a leg, which grew back completely by adult.


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## sporeworld

Good luck with this thread.

I never had "thistles" as I was calling them, except for a few ooths that hatched, and got sent off to others.

I know Phil was doing some experiemnts with them, so maybe he can chime in.

And thanks for the good words on the enclosure. Sadly, about 8 of them are sitting dormant... waiting for my 2012 season to start... (oh, what will it be...?)


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## angelofdeathzz

Like Sporeworld I hope you have a great turn out on this thread, if people pool there knowledge together it can be very rewarding!

One thing I can add is female Mendica can take a VERY long time to turn adult, so plan your males out well if you intend to mate them.

Good luck and have fun!


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## agent A

I'm gonna sort them by sex at L4 and keep the female warmer at night with my infrared bulb so they grow fast  , hope that works out well


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## angelofdeathzz

Yes, keeping the males cooler and the females hot should help, just be sure they all still get a temp drop at night, at least somewhat.


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## PhilinYuma

Well done, Alex. I can add some stuff on empusids in general, size of ooth, hatching time, etc,tomorrow, if you like. Right now, I'll just say something about RH. Your day time RH of 10% is extremely low for just about any insect anywhere. I imagine that you were remembering that Tunisia is a collecting ground for this species, and Tunisia is the home of the Sahara.where the afternoon humidity can be down to 5%. But B. mendica doesn't live in the desert. The northern region in which it lives has between 5-15" rainfall annually depending on the area. The supposed AR for my Yuma is under around 3.6" (I say supposed, because it has been below that for a long time now) and in the afternoons of the driest month the RH will seldom drop below 15% so 20% should be a minimum. Is your house naturally that dry?

In the wild, mantids can suss out the moistest area possible for molting, but that can be much harder to do in a homogenous, controlled environment. I think that such a low humidity may induce bad molts. Another, practical reason for a rather higher humidity is that many elctronic hygrometers won't measure below 10%RH, so you could run into trouble there. O.K. that's it for now.

BRW, didn't we already srart a care sheet on this species with Tammy's pix? No matter,; we can "consolidate" them later!


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## agent A

Ok I will be sure of it

Hey does anyone have any idea when they'll molt to L4??

Phil my heat lamp sucks all the moisture from the air, I may need to mist them more


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## twolfe

I haven't even been raising this species for a year yet. So, I'm certainly not an expert. I did start with L2s that were shipped to me at the end of May. And I have had some success in breeding this species and hatching the ooths (4 so far). The key points for this species has been covered above: higher temps and lower humidity

guapoalto049 &amp; Meagan, I had 6 adults (3 males/3 females). My males were more docile. They are all gone now, but I still have my 3 adult females. My females do give me a partial threat pose. They sometimes back away and raise their raptorial/grasping legs when I try to give them mealworms or something as emergency food, but mine never give me a full threat pose like the p. wahlbergii and some other species. They never raise their wings for me.

Phil, I posted a few pictures, but I don't think there is a caresheet on this forum. I consulted the one on the UK forum. Most of their information is good but if you mist them daily as they say, you may kill them! I do keep my Mendicas on the dry side, but I think it's hard to get an accurate reading under the heat lamp. Like Alex' mine often doesn't display a number unless I've misted something nearby.

Alex, the molt to L4 may take a little longer than the molt to L3. They could start molting to L4 as early as January 3 - 5. We'll have to see. The majority of my nymphs are L1s right now from my last two ooths that hatched. I only have a couple of L3s right now as I ended up selling most of mine. The person I originally got mine from told me not to spray them. I've misted mine lightly once a week only because it is so dry in my house in the winter and they are right under a heat lamp. People will need to adjust based on the conditions in their home. If you're going to mist to raise humidity, I'd start by misting a paper towel instead of misting the nymphs directly. I think when one sees a mismolt, there is a tendency to mist all of them, but I wouldn't do that with this species.

I never made an attempt to slow down my males. Though my males did molt first, but they lived long enough to mate with the females. I know Nick and another person had females that took much longer. I'm not sure why.


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## agent A

Well after a good spraying I got the humidity up to 58%, but within about 2 minutes later the humidity went back down to like 45%, man that heat lamp dries things up fast!!!


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## gripen

PhilinYuma said:


> Well done, Alex. I can add some stuff on empusids in general, size of ooth, hatching time, etc,tomorrow, if you like. Right now, I'll just say something about RH. Your day time RH of 10% is extremely low for just about any insect anywhere. I imagine that you were remembering that Tunisia is a collecting ground for this species, and Tunisia is the home of the Sahara.where the afternoon humidity can be down to 5%. But B. mendica doesn't live in the desert. The northern region in which it lives has between 5-15" rainfall annually depending on the area. The supposed AR for my Yuma is under around 3.6" (I say supposed, because it has been below that for a long time now) and in the afternoons of the driest month the RH will seldom drop below 15% so 20% should be a minimum. Is your house naturally that dry?
> 
> In the wild, mantids can suss out the moistest area possible for molting, but that can be much harder to do in a homogenous, controlled environment. I think that such a low humidity may induce bad molts. Another, practical reason for a rather higher humidity is that many elctronic hygrometers won't measure below 10%RH, so you could run into trouble there. O.K. that's it for now.
> 
> BRW, didn't we already srart a care sheet on this species with Tammy's pix? No matter,; we can "consolidate" them later!


Phil please please do share


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## agent A

gripen said:


> Phil please please do share


+1!!!


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## Termite48

I have only three B. mendica from Tammy. The two larger ones are L-3 and yesterday was the first time I saw one of them take two HF simultaneously. That is so cool to see. They are also taking on BBs. Not two at a time though. That is asking too much of such a small mantid. I will start at L-4 to keep them at different temps depending on sex. Right now with the great CA weather, mine are outside during the day at about 85-90 degrees and in the evening when they come in the temp is at 82 degrees until I go to bed and then things are adjusted to keep them at night at about 72-74 degrees. I do mist the room, and never directly the nymphs per Tammy's instruction. I did have a lonely mendica hatch from an ooth from another member and that nymph is now fine at L-2. No others ever emerged from that ooth. These mantids are easy to distinguish, even at L-2 they are developing a prominant pronatum that is specific to the species. As of 2 PM this afternoon, on the side of the net cage where one of the mendica nymphs was clinging, the temp reads 90 degrees. This is not the published temp for Carson,CA but it is a direct sun reading from my probe type thermometer. The R/H there is 35%. Other nymphs that are placed outside get direct spraying for hydration and overall preference for a more humid condition.


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## meaganelise9

How big are the hatches for mendica ooths?


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## twolfe

meaganelise9 said:


> How big are the hatches for mendica ooths?


The UK Mantis forum says the hatch 20 - 50.My first three ooths produced between 40 - 45 nymphs. I tried counting them when they were in the net enclosures, but they have places to hide. My fourth ooth produced 62 nymphs. I actually counted them as I transferred them from a deli cup to a net enclosure. A friend had one of my ooths hatch from this same female, and he said that it were a lot of nymphs, but he didn't give me a #.


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## sporeworld

Concerning humidity, I did a decent job of keeping relative humidity in 45-50% range by soaking the substrate, instead of constant misting. It would take about 2 days before the RH at the top of the enclosure would drop significantly. Of course, this brought with it mildew/mold problems, which we addressed in another thread (spraying the substrate with a vinegar solution did the trick).

Meaning, it wouldn't take a lot of effort to tweak your soaking systems and areas to get a fairly constant RH, without subjecting the nymphs to direct spraying.

But you HAVE to clean up the dead body parts every other day or so, or you invite other pests into the environment. Yuck!


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## D.J.

That sounds like my two but I have one question at what age are they sexable


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## D.J.

Also it is notibal to mention that my two are taking roaches of the tongs.


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## sporeworld

My Idolos would eat pieces of chicken off tongs - but it wasn't practical to do this on a large scale (and, it opens me up to all kinds of discussions on the could/should's of feeding them non-living or vertebrate food). Besides, I have very little access to research concerning the real nutritional needs of these critters.

I _will_ mention that my Idolo adult which was fly-fed (and ONLY fly-fed) suffered from what _appeared to be_ mineral deficiencies (small cavities and blemishes on the surface areas), which have almost completely been repaired with the single change to a (well-fed) cricket-only diet. It bears mentioning that most of the flies were consumed right after pupation, with little or no chance to feed "properly" beforehand.


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## Fichte

Idolos are good feedet on Bees... they are much healthier than only flys


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## sporeworld

Agreed. But feeding my ARMY of Idolos with bees would have sent many of the members here into a rage! So, they'd only rarely get a stray honeybee. Sigh.


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## gripen

Get back on topic there already is an idolomantis consolidated! How would people who have kept multiple blephs rate them on the communal scale? One being never ten being will rip each other to bits in minutes


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## agent A

Probably 2.5, mine r sometimes in funny standoffs and sometimes a bit territorial but they haven't killed each other

Wat really surprises me is I have yet to see cannabalism in a net cage full of creo nymphs that im not feeding because my hfs still haven't emerged


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## angelofdeathzz

Gripen do keep in mind that besides humidity, Mendica and Idolo are not that far away genetically, if you keep both(which I do)you'll see they can be treated the same except the Mendica need almost no water.


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## gripen

That is true they are but we are not talking about idolos are we?


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## agent A

Hey does anyone think the hydrothermometer says the humidity is under 10% because it's directly under the heat lamp? I had my female popa molt successfully to adult in a net cafe right under a similar heat lamp


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## gripen

I think Phil said most hydrometers don't go under 10% . What hydrometer do you use? Also do blephs need modified deli cups with better ventilation to survive?


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## angelofdeathzz

gripen said:


> That is true they are but we are not talking about idolos are we?


Yes that is all to true, but comparisons can be drawn for the sake of good info, y/n?

If you have 10 mendica (L3 and up) together in a enclosure soon you will have just one fat one left.


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## agent A

The 2 dashed lines mean the humidity is below 10%

I think the reason peeps say good ventilation is so they stay dry, I have my net cages in a terrarium to take advantage of a technicality on my moms heat lamp rule (she only allows a heat lamp to be on unattended if it's on a screen lid) and the terrarium will hopefully collect a little humidity

Ive learned that they still need some moisture in the air, just not as much


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## gripen

angelofdeathzz said:


> Yes that is all to true, but comparisons can be drawn for the sake of good info, y/n?
> 
> If you have 10 mendica (L3 and up) together in a enclosure soon you will have just one fat one left.


Yes you can draw similaritys but when there is back and forth about just idolos then there is a problem.What enclosure did you keep yours in?


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## angelofdeathzz

Agreed, I use 32oz delis with screen lids from Mantisplace.com, 1 per deli with a small leaf vine in each. pretty much the same with any mantis that don't play nice together.

The deli's are pretty cheap, just cut a bung hole in the top and use a foam stopper for feeding and bam done deal.


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## agent A

R 32oz delis fine for a bleph's final molt???


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## angelofdeathzz

Yes, just make sure it's not over crowded with things on there last molt, so they can molt with some space from top to bottom, I use just one or two twigs angled and glue a few to the top of the lid, the middle and bottom should have as much empty space as you can do, with a little moss or paper towel in the bottom, do you see the picture I'm painting if not I can try and add a pic later?


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## agent A

Sounds like a lot of sticks!!!


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## angelofdeathzz

Here is the type of shipping container I use to send larger mantis, forget the foam in the deli (fool proof shipping  ),it's the same as I use for sub adults about to molt, then I add a thin stick or two for them to get to the top is all, they can grip the sticks for molting very easily hence no falling during the last crucial molt.


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## gripen

thank you for the pic! i may have to steal your idea...


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## agent A

nice!! is that a sphodromantis in the background???


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## angelofdeathzz

No problem, I like to share what I've learned with others when I can.


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## gripen

thanks! do you have any other pics?


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## agent A

that is a sphodromantis, isnt it?!!! where do u get the awesome foam???


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## meaganelise9

That seems kind of cramped for molting to adult.

Does anyone else's mendicas flap their wings like crazy around 1am?


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## agent A

my blephs dont have wings yet, but i had lucanus capreolus adult males last summer fly around like idiots in the cage at night

maybe he is in search of a lady bleph...


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## meaganelise9

Yeah, that was my thought. He's near my adult female polyspilota who seems to tap the side of the cage and look at him. They seem to have some weird flirtation going on. haha Sorry guys.. Not a love connection.


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## agent A

hmm... i had a male creobroter who was attracted to a female miomantis once

they both got mates that were their own species eventually...


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## meaganelise9

How romantic. haha

So besides Tammy, who has been breeding these? Granted I've only kept the one, but I guess I don't understand why they are so scarce. I don't feel like he has been hard to keep. It helps that it's winter, and my apartment is dry as a bone I guess. We should really get these guys more abundant.


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## gripen

i here they are hard to breed. i dont have any adults tho.


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## gripen

nick did you breed them?


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## angelofdeathzz

> That seems kind of cramped for molting to adult.
> 
> Does anyone else&amp;#39;s mendicas flap their wings like crazy around 1am?


Yeah, bigger is always better, but a Exo Terra for each one is kind of costly, just saying what can be done on a limited budget, Mendica rarly are over 3 inches at adult more like 2.5 in(less for males) so its plenty of room, but if you have larger containers I would use them.



gripen said:


> nick did you breed them?


No, I didn't judge correctly on how long the females would take to get to adult compaired to the males, so it's a all girl party here with the mendica, you live and learn. ^_^


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## gripen

sorry to hear about that.


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## agent A

I'm watching one molt to L4 right now!!!


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## agent A

First L4 nymph is a female!!!


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## agent A

I have at least 2 L4 nymphs now, not much problem in the molting department, they seem to like to molt in the evening for some reason


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## agent A

At least 5 are L4 now, 2 females and 3 males, the L4 are now eating again and they r loving the houseflies, I'm pretty sure all 16 r still alive, eating and some will be L5 in no time if they keep eating as much as they do lol

They seem to molt when the light is out or humidity is up a bit, we lost power for an hour here and during that time 1 molted

Very entertaining little guys


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## gripen

one of mine moulted to L4. it is a male. the size jump from L3-L4 is pretty big.


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## agent A

Agreed

Is it as drastic from L4 to L5???


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## gripen

yes i think even more than 3-4.


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## agent A

Reminds me of the size jumps in popa


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## meaganelise9

I was wondering if you guys had the same experience with feeding as I had. Mine was always a good eater. He would eat anything and plenty of it. Now that he's done growing, he won't go for crawling feeders as much, but loves flies, moths, etc.


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## gripen

yeah mine have bottomless stomachs lol!


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## agent A

Mine eat anything that flies lol


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## gripen

has anyone else noticed a male bias in this species? there seems to be 2-3 times more males than females.


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## agent A

I'm used to it, for every female fbt at a petstore there r at least 5 males

I have 4 known males and 2 known females of Blepharopsis mendica


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## twolfe

I didn't notice it the first time around when I got my nymphs. I had about 20 of them. I traded 6 of the nymphs. I sprayed them too much in the beginning and lost some in the early instars. Of the 14 I had left after the trade, 7 made it to sub adults (four females and three males). I lost one female to a mismolt and ended up with three adult males and three females.

I sold almost all of my nymphs from the first two ooths that hatched and kept 7 that were behind in molts or were runts. The smallest runt didn't make it. The remaining six should be L4 by now, but a couple of them are still on the small side. I haven't tried to determine the sex yet. I'll be keeping more from my next ooths.


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## agent A

Ok so here is the count now:

All 16 remain

6 are still L3

5 L4 are male

5 L4 are female

They eat a dozen houseflies a day total


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## gripen

3 of mine have moulted too L4. 2 males and 1 female.


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## agent A

Can Tammy give us an approximate number of days spent at each instar? I'm curious to know how long my blephs will be at L4 with plenty of food

Thanx


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## sporeworld

Hey, Agent A.

The idea with "Idolomantis Consolidated", was to have the info at the top of the thread, and then update it as we progressed and collected more information (hence, the "Consolidated" part).

To confess (again), I've never personally done this species (I hatched several ooths for a friend, and fed the L1-L2 nymphs). But I HAVE collected a lot of info in anticipation of doing them eventually (and en masse). Here are my collected notes. Maybe you can add or take away, then edit them into your openning post.

Thanks!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

*BLEPHAROPSIS MENDICA (Thistle Mantis)*

Species: Blepharopsis mendica mendica

*COMMON NAMES: *

Thistle Mantis, Egyptian flower mantis, Arab mantis, Lesser Devils Flower Mantis, (erroneously identified as "Devil's flower mantis")

*DISTRIBUTION:*

Northern Africa, Southern Mediterranian Europe, Canary Islands, Middle East.

*NATRUAL HABITAT:*

Semi Desert, dry forest regions.

*SIZE: *

Adult Female 55-70mm

Adult Males: 50-70mm

*RECOMENDED DIET:*

Flying foods -Fruit Flies, House Flies, Blue Bottles, Moths. In general, fod should be roughly 1/3 the size of the mantis, or less. Hydei are generally reported to be suitable for 1st and 2nd instars.

*HOUSING:*

Well ventilated, hot and dry. Enclosures for single specimens must be at least 3x the size of the mantid.

*TEMPS:*

Recommended temps range from 75-86F on the cool side, to 86-104 on the hot side. A consistent temp of 85F seems ideal.

*HUMDITY:*

Spraying these nymphs is still in debate. Most recommend to spray them less than once a week, with others suggesting no spraying at all. Most agree that a consistent RH (relative humidity) of 30% is a good target. It has been reported that ANY spraying can be lethal to nymphs, although this is still being disputed.

*COMMUNAL:*

Yes, if well fed. Of course, with all mantids, cannibalism is possible.

*SEXING NYMPHS*:

From L3, males will have a tiny hook on the last abdominal segment.

Males have 6 abdominal segments, while females have only 5 segments.

*LIGHT CYCLES*

It is still unknown if alternating night and day cycles is has any effects on the health of these mantids.

*SUBSTRATE:*

Common Substrates such as Paper Towel, Coconut fiber, Sphagnum Moss, Peat Moss, and Sponges are all acceptable.

*MATING:*

Sexual maturity for females reached 3 weeks after final molt (or slightly less).

An increase in temps is necessary to induce mating, with some sources recommending temps as high as 113F. Temps can drop back down to 85f or so, after mating with no ill-effects on ooth production.

*LAYING OOTHS:*

Up to 10 ooths can be laid by a single female with roughly a week or so between each ooth laid. First ooth can be layed after 3 weeks. Up to 14 ooths have been reported from a single female.

*OOTH CARE:*

Expect to see nymphs between 4 and 6 weeks. Ooths should be kept relatively dry, between 30-40% RH. Expect between 20-50 nymphs, with 62 the highest I found recorded. Successful incubation has been reported with temps around 30-40C.


----------



## gripen

thank you sporeworld!


----------



## twolfe

The information that Sporeworld added looks good!

*OOTH CARE:*

Expect to see nymphs between 4 and 6 weeks. Ooths should be kept relatively dry, between 30-40% RH. Expect between 20-50 nymphs, with 60 the highest I found recorded. Successful incubation has been reported with temps around 30-40C.

I may have a record if 60 was the highest found. My first four ooths that hatched produced between 40 - 45 nymphs. That was my best guess when I tried counting them. My 5th ooth produced 62 nymphs. My 6th ooth produced 58 nymphs. I actually counted the nymphs from the 5th &amp; 6th ooths that hatched as I moved them from the deli container to the net enclosure. I haven't counted the nymphs from the 7th ooth yet.

My female that has produced all of the fertile ooths has laid 14 of them! The first and sixth ooths laid did not hatch. One was kept too wet and the other likely too hot. We'll see how many more hatch. I re-mated her a couple of times.


----------



## sporeworld

Can someone give me a pronunciation guide for the listing as well...?


----------



## agent A

I shall add care info to my first post when mine get to L5  

meanwhile, here are a few pics of the L4 nymphs:


----------



## agent A

Oh I should add that anyone who wants to post pics and info on blephs here is free to do so  , just because I started the thread doesn't mean it's only mine  post pics and notes and anything else relevant to Blepharopsis mendica


----------



## twolfe

Here is a photo of my mama b. Mendica that I took yesterday. She is 8 months old now. She likes to chew gum and blow bubbles. (Ha. Ha.)






A while back another forum member posted a photo of an adult with a nymph. I have tried to do that on a few occasions, but it never works out. I just attempted again yesterday and got two shots of an L3 nymph (I think) with her mama. Both times mama flicked the baby off. I decided not to try again. If I try this again, it won't be with a green background.


----------



## gripen

wow!! she is very blue! what did she look like as a nymph? what was her color at sub adult? what conditions was she kept at? i hope it is her babies that i have


----------



## twolfe

She does have a hint of blue on her shield (from beneath) and in a few other areas. The color may also be off on the photo as it looks more green in PhotoShop. As a nymph, she was tan like her baby. The adults turned green anywhere from 1 day to 3 weeks after the final molt. I only have one female that has produced viable ooths other than two from another female that both hatched 1 nymph. My female above was first mated with my darkest and prettiest male. I lated mated her with another male.


----------



## agent A

Do I have any of her cutesies?


----------



## gripen

ok thanks. i was wondering because i have seen green nymphs before and i was wondering if she was one of them.


----------



## twolfe

agent A said:


> Do I have any of her cutesies?


Yes, all of your babies are from her. Another ooth hatched today.


gripen said:


> wow!! she is very blue! what did she look like as a nymph? what was her color at sub adult? what conditions was she kept at? i hope it is her babies that i have


Are you using Internet Explorer? I normally do only for this site. She looks less blue to me in Firefox. The few months I sprayed my b. Mendica too much. But after that, she was kept warm and dry. I don't mist my adults at all and only mist my nymphs once a week.


----------



## gripen

k thanks


----------



## gripen

oh yeah i am using fire fox


----------



## meaganelise9

Dang, Tammy, yours is so much greener than mine. Mine was almost white until adult. Now he has bright stripes but that's about it.


----------



## agent A

I put a new bulb in the heat lamp

Same wattage but a basking bulb

It's about 95 degrees for them now

Is this too hot?


----------



## twolfe

I'm not sure it's too hot, but I don't think it's necessary to keep them that warm unless you are trying to breed them. If yours are in a net, then give them an opportunity to move away from the heat. In the morning, when the heat lamp first turns on, I notice a lot of the little nymphs all line up as close to it as possible. After they warm up, they scatter.

I have too many nets with babies right now and can't keep them all the same temperature. I had one net with no mismolts to L2 and one farther away from the heat with more than my average number of mismolts. It may have just been a coincidence...


----------



## agent A

I notice at lower temps my mantises don't fold their wings correctly, I'll see if they do better with warmer temps and I need them to get to L5 soon cause I'm sick and tired of using hfs, same go for the creos, my mom can't stand seeing loose hfs so let's all hope i don't have to use them much longer


----------



## D.J.

Can someone tell me how to sex them I just can't figure it out and how many molts to adulthood


----------



## agent A

Ok sexing is easy for me, at L4 the nymphs can be sexed by looking at the abdomen and counting the lobes going down the middle

Females have 5, males have 6, and after the largest lobe, females have a long segment with no more lobes, while males have a tiny lobe after this large one, another way is to look for 2 tiny, white, downward pointing hairs between the cerci, this indicates male as well

I believe the molt count is 7 but I'm not positive


----------



## agent A

Well the temp got to almost 100 and they clearly were stressed out by it

Back to the regular bulb for now


----------



## Termite48

Alex: All you have to do is make the distance from the bulb greater. If you make the ambient temperature greater, then the bulb does not have to do all the work of heating the mantids and you can use a lower wattage. In my bug room, the space heater of about 1200 watts does the heating to the night time low of 76 and then heat lamp of 250 watts does the rest.


----------



## agent A

250 watts r u crazy? U r gonna break the bank! A 75 watt basking spot bulb from a pet store gets something 6 inches below almost 100 degrees

Or do u use 1 lamp for EVERYTHING? Just curious


----------



## twolfe

Alex, 4 of my b. Mendica nymphs are now eating bb flies. These were ones that either hatched from the same ooth as yours or the ooth that hatched 5 days later. I have two little runts in the bunch. One is so small that I moved it in with some L2s, but it is a giant compared to them. It's still eating Hydei flies.


----------



## agent A

Hmm, I'll have to try and put some bbs in the cage

I still see a few L3 nymphs, meanwhile many others r almost L5

At identical conditions many variations in growth rate seem to occur


----------



## gripen

just got an L5 female. thats 2 moults in one week


----------



## agent A

Wow! Awesome!!!


----------



## Termite48

You must be doing a few things right with the mantid. What temp is yours kept at during the day?


----------



## gripen

i have mine at 85 with 30 percent humidity.


----------



## agent A

I keep mine like that too

So the same one who molted to L4 molted to L5 a few days later?


----------



## gripen

yeah it was really surprised!


----------



## agent A

Jane on UKMF had this happen and then the mantis died


----------



## gripen

oh great


----------



## agent A

Just feed her well  

Mine are almost at L5

R L5 nymphs really big?


----------



## gripen

the head is larger but not so much the body.


----------



## agent A

So I think a few of mine r L5 then


----------



## gripen

its official L5s take bbs!


----------



## agent A

Thank god!!!


----------



## gripen

lol. have any of yours moulted to L5?


----------



## agent A

I think so


----------



## agent A

Whilst molting to L5 a male was cannibalized today  

Gotta keep up on feeding


----------



## gripen

yeah i would not trust these guys in the same cage!


----------



## meaganelise9

Yeah, I'd probably separate them at that age. Mine grew quickly, especially L5 and earlier because he ate like a horse.


----------



## twolfe

I have b. Mendicas in 6 net enclosures and 1 with new babies in an 80 ounce container. I currently have 41 enclosures with mantids. So, I can't separate my b. Mendicas right now. I kept 7 nymphs from the 1st/2nd ooths and still have 6 of them. Two of them were runts I didn't want to sell, and I moved them in with others. They stand out because they are bigger than the others. Anyway, I left the remaining four in a net enclosure when I left for Hawaii. 12 days later I'm happy to report they are all doing fine. Two of them molted while I was away. I lost count of what instar they are nowadays.


----------



## agent A

They can molt in like the driest conditions

I still have 15 and all 6 females r still ok


----------



## gripen

Color variation is starting to show. Some are brown some orange white and one is starting to get some blue. These guys know how to eat. One bb every other day is what they should be feed at L5. L4s can take bbs and will but prefer hfs. Gripping smooth surfaces is better than my idolos and trachy but worse than ghosts or creos. I sand the inside of the inclosers to make them empusidea proof. Ventilation is a must! Don't let the humidity get to high. Keep the heat up! If conditions are met they will moult fast fast fast. If not they will moult extremely slowly.


----------



## agent A

At L5 the inner forelegs get the adult colors


----------



## gripen

Yes they are nice and blue at L5!


----------



## agent A

I like your signature gripen

Anyways mine love to just sit around doin nothin and watch me and everything else

More peaceful than my popa hierodula and creos who fight through the cages lol


----------



## gripen

Alex how are yours doing?


----------



## agent A

Terribly  

And they didn't sit well in my tummy  

JK they r fine, hoping my bbs eclose soon (won't be long cause some supplier sent me pupae when I ordered maggots grr) because they r getting hungry

They seem to be able to go a while without food but eat too much in the presence of food


----------



## gripen

I have noticed that too. I was unable to feed them for 4 days and they were fine. How are they doing communally?


----------



## agent A

Only 1 instance of cannabalism


----------



## gripen

Very interesting. How would you rate them on a communal scale from 1 to 10 (1 being will rip each other to pieces and 10 being scared of each othe).


----------



## agent A

Probably a 7.5 because they do fight but rarely kill but have the means and sometimes intent


----------



## gripen

I would agree with that. They love flies but not siblings... Unless they look REALY yummy


----------



## agent A

gripen said:


> I would agree with that. They love flies but not siblings... Unless they look REALY yummy


Like when they r molting to L5 and the other is jealous cause they r still L4 lol


----------



## gripen

agent A said:


> Like when they r molting to L5 and the other is jealous cause they r still L4 lol


Yes lol!


----------



## twolfe

I'll have to check mine for color variation. I still have my four biggest nymphs living in a net together. I have nymphs of various other sizes L1, L2, L3, L4 living in nets together. There are too many to tell if there is any cannabalism happening. The only time I noticed it was when I had nymphs that just hatched in an 80 ounce deli container. It was too crowded, and I noticed a head missing from one of the nymphs.


----------



## gripen

got my first L6 today! he is about the size of an L4 idolo.


----------



## agent A

Yikes!!! No fair lol

R u gut loading flies with muscle milk again?


----------



## gripen

...shhhhh... i love these guys! way way better than idolos in my mind.


----------



## agent A

gripen said:


> way way better than idolos in my mind.


deffo  

these r so much cuter than idolos  :wub:


----------



## twolfe

Agent A, are you off from school today?

I love the b. Mendicas, too. I just wish they turned green before they molted to adults. I'm not seeing any color on my L5/L6 nymphs.


----------



## gripen

Tammy Wolfe said:


> Agent A, are you off from school today?
> 
> I love the b. Mendicas, too. I just wish they turned green before they molted to adults. I'm not seeing any color on my L5/L6 nymphs.


i do have a blueish one. thats it though.


----------



## agent A

Tammy Wolfe said:


> Agent A, are you off from school today?
> 
> I love the b. Mendicas, too. I just wish they turned green before they molted to adults. I'm not seeing any color on my L5/L6 nymphs.


no i'm skipping  

jk im in the library computer lab for biology right now

getting outa school in like 2 mins


----------



## agent A

I noticed my male blephs, even as nymphs, eat less than females

I put 20 flies in each cage, all were eaten by 6 females

10 remain in a cage with 8 males


----------



## agent A

most of the females are L6 and i am down to 6 males at L4/L5

males seem more cannabalistic

and i edited my first post here so it has the caresheet


----------



## gripen

i have 4 L6s as of last week.


----------



## gripen

just had a male give me a threat pose! quite amazing and threataning!


----------



## agent A

Ok so I have a 24/7 60 watt infrared bulb a few inches to the side of the male bleph tank for feeder roaches

Will this be a problem for the blephs?

Thanx


----------



## gripen

They love the heat so they should be fine.


----------



## agent A

But I don't want males who grow faster than the females (perhaps its time to switch the cages around)...


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## gripen

agent A said:


> But I don't want males who grow faster than the females (perhaps its time to switch the cages around)...


I think you solved your own problem...


----------



## agent A

Yay!!! Now time to solve another problem

I am sitting on a bed typing into an iPod watching a 4th instar dubia roach bask under an infrared bulb thinking abt hibiscusmile (for obvious reasons) when I should be sound asleep dreaming abt doing all that


----------



## twolfe

Hey, I moved two of my largest nymphs out of the net enclosure a week or so ago. One of these nymphs is now in an 80 ounce container. It has turned *green*! It's more of an olive green and not lime green like its mama.

Yesterday I had another ooth hatch. All of my ooths that have hatched have been from the same female. It was her 15th ooth laid, but only 12 of them have hatched. She has laid a total of 17 ooths so far. We'll see if the other two hatch.


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## sporeworld

!?!

One adult laid 17 ooths...!?!


----------



## agent A

Wow I can't even get a creo to lay more than 6 ooths and u have a bleph lay 17!!!

U r truely the queen of blephs lol!!!


----------



## twolfe

Sporeworld said:


> !?!
> 
> One adult laid 17 ooths...!?!


Yes, she has laid a total of 17 ooths so far. I don't know if she is done yet. She lives in a net by herself so that I can keep track. I was low on bb flies for a while. So, we'll see if she lays another one. It's crazy. My other female's ooths have not hatched, and I don't even bother removing them from the net as the first 5 failed to hatch.Here's my data. I was in Hawaii when # 16 was laid. And I didn't notice # 17 right away because she laid it in a strange spot. The rest have all been on or near the top of the net or on the fake plant.

Female # 1

- molted to adult 9/10/11

- mated 10/6/11

- first ooth laid 10/12/11 did not hatch

- second ooth laid 10/18/11 hatched 11/29/2011 (around 40 nymphs)

- third ooth laid between 10/23- 10/30/11 hatched 12/2/2011 (around 40 - 45 nymphs)

- fourth ooth laid around 11/6/11 hatched 12/16/2011 (sent to Phil on 11/7; "a lot of nymphs")

- mated 11/9/2011

- fifth ooth laid around 11/12 hatched 12/18/2011

- sixth ooth laid 11/19/11 (left in net enclosure) did not hatch

- mated 11/19/11 with the male sharing the enclosure

- seventh ooth laid 11/23/11 hatched 12/26/2011 &amp; 12/27/2011 (62 nymphs!)

- eighth ooth laid 11/30/11 hatched 1/2/2012 (58 nymphs)

- ninth ooth laid 12/4/11 hatched 1/5/2012 (49 nymphs;counted 1 week later)

- tenth ooth laid 12/9/11 hatched 1/13/2012 (42 nymphs)

- eleventh ooth laid 12/17/11 hatched around 1/26/2012 (about 25 nymphs)

- twelfth ooth laid 12/26/11 hatched 2/3/2012 (18 nymphs)

- thirteenth ooth laid 1/2/12

- fourteen ooth laid 1/8/12 hatched 2/17/2012 (41 nymphs)

- fifteenth ooth laid 1/14/12 hatched 2/20/2012 (around 30 nymphs)

- sixteenth ooth laid between 1/21/12 - 1/30/12

- seventeenth ooth laid between 2/2/12 - 2/12/12


----------



## gripen

Tammy Wolfe said:


> Hey, I moved two of my largest nymphs out of the net enclosure a week or so ago. One of these nymphs is now in an 80 ounce container. It has turned *green*! It's more of an olive green and not lime green like its mama.
> 
> Yesterday I had another ooth hatch. All of my ooths that have hatched have been from the same female. It was her 15th ooth laid, but only 12 of them have hatched. She has laid a total of 17 ooths so far. We'll see if the other two hatch.


Good to hear about the green! Do you have your camera back yet? I REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY want pics


----------



## agent A

She seems to lay more frequently as she ages...

Wonder what my 6 females will do as adults...

Hey it's ironic how peeps say males grow fastest and females can be a hassle, I've found just the opposite

Got L6 females and some males r still at L4 and as cannabalistic as ever...


----------



## twolfe

gripen said:


> Good to hear about the green! Do you have your camera back yet? I REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY want pics


Yes, I have my camera back. I'm a member of Canon Professional Services, and the turnaround is great. But I've been spending my mornings photographing deer and swans. I will photograph my mantids sometime this week. It's just a pain to swap heads on the tripod and get set up.Alex, you probably don't want to breed all 6 females, or you'll end up with too many babies!


----------



## gripen

Tammy Wolfe said:


> Yes, I have my camera back. I'm a member of Canon Professional Services, and the turnaround is great. But I've been spending my mornings photographing deer and swans. I will photograph my mantids sometime this week. It's just a pain to swap heads on the tripod and get set up.
> 
> Alex, you probably don't want to breed all 6 females, or you'll end up with too many babies!


Good to hear about the camera. I wait in anticipation!There can never be to many blephs...


----------



## gripen

I just had a male play dead on me. Has anyone else noticed this behavior in this species?


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## agent A

I had a female-female cannabalism this morning but no play dead


----------



## gripen

agent A said:


> I had a female-female cannabalism this morning but no play dead


Darn! You have to separate yours or you will only have one pair as adults. They would be a super couple though...


----------



## agent A

gripen said:


> Darn! You have to separate yours or you will only have one pair as adults. They would be a super couple though...


They'd write a bad romance lol


----------



## agent A

Found an L7 female in the cage!!! Yay!! :clap:


----------



## gripen

agent A said:


> Found an L7 female in the cage!!! Yay!! :clap:


Well you beat me to it! My male is a couple days off. How big is she?


----------



## agent A

A little bigger than L6, but mine grow a bit as the instar progresses


----------



## agent A

I made a mistake

This female was a male in the female cage and I think he is only L6, not sure though

At least I have a male over L5 lol


----------



## gripen

I may beat you yet than...


----------



## twolfe

Here is the photo of my green nymph that I promised. So far, it's the only one that has changed to green.


----------



## angelofdeathzz

Mine never turned green till adult, I'm so jealous! :angry: Beautiful mantis!


----------



## agent A

she looks AWESOME!!!


----------



## gripen

Tammy Wolfe said:


> Here is the photo of my green nymph that I promised. So far, it's the only one that has changed to green.


Wow amazing! Sub adult female already! Nice!


----------



## warpdrive

Tammy Wolfe said:


> Here is the photo of my green nymph that I promised. So far, it's the only one that has changed to green.


just AWESOME. what a great looking sub adult.

Harry


----------



## twolfe

Well, I'm sad to report that my female b. mendica that produced all of the fertile ooths died today. She was about 10 months old and molted to an adult about 6 months ago. I don't know what the average life for a female b. mendica is. I was hoping she would live long enough for the first of her offspring to molt to adults. Her sister is still doing well and continues to lay infertile ooths.

My female (mama) b. mendica was amazing! Between 10/12/11 - 2/12/12 (last date is approximate as I didn't initially notice the ooth), she laid a total of 17 ooths. Twelve of the first fifteen ooths hatched. The first, sixth and thirteenth ooths did not hatch. I think I know why the first and sixth ooths did not hatch, but I'm not sure what happened with the thirteenth. It will be interesting to see if the last two ooths hatch.


----------



## agent A

poor mendica  

hope her prodogies do well though...


----------



## agent A

Well I finally have an L7 female!!! she's almost yellow now :wub:


----------



## gripen

Good to hear that. I'm slowing my males down so I might have to wait another week before L7.


----------



## agent A

how r your females doin??


----------



## gripen

They are good. L5 and L6.


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## agent A

nice

i have 3 L6 females, 1 L7 female, and 1 L4 female (mistook her for a male)

but the L4 disappeared  

i have 9 or 10 blephs left, not bad  and tammy is loaded with them in case i need a few extras (doubt i will however)


----------



## twolfe

If you end up with nymphs that fall too far behind in molts, it's best to separate them. That way they won't get eaten, and you can ensure they are getting enough food. You also may want to consider putting your sub adults in separate enclosures now to use as molting chambers so there is no chance of them getting knocked down during the final molt.

My sub adult female nymph that had turned green molted to an adult this morning! She looks good. She stayed green but her wings are a light green right now. Over the weekend, the first of my males molted to sub adult when I was out of town. I also have a sub adult female. The rest of my older stock are still smaller.

Alex, my nymph that turned green had first turned yellow/green. Perhaps yours is going to change to green.

I'm not exactly "loaded" with b mendica as I have continued to move some surplus stock. (I'm actually "loaded" with p wahlbergii nymphs nowadays.) Most of my surplus b mendica stock are L2 - L4 now. But I should have "fresh" males in the future in case you decide you'd like to re-mate your females down the line.


----------



## agent A

Cool

I found the little female, she was hiding

I tried putting the females in 32 oz deli cups but I was worried they'd side molt from the paper towel I rested on the side of the cup (in case they fell down they can't climb the plastic) and I thought they'd be too close to the heat lamp

But I'll figure something out (gotta save up for some 80 oz cups)


----------



## twolfe

The 80 ounce containers with aluminum lids work great for them. I have glued some plastic grid to the side so that they can climb back up if they fall.


----------



## agent A

k thanx


----------



## gripen

Tammy Wolfe said:


> The 80 ounce containers with aluminum lids work great for them. I have glued some plastic grid to the side so that they can climb back up if they fall.


Hey Tammy can they moult to adult in 80 oz containers. I was thinkin 32 oz would be fine but IDK.


----------



## twolfe

My female just molted in an 80 ounce container this morning. They are about the same height as the 32 ounce. They may do fine in the 32 ounce, but I don't think they'd be happy living in an enclosure that small after they molt.


----------



## agent A

here r 3 pics of the L7 female:


----------



## agent A

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=24479


----------



## twolfe

I had another female molt to an adult today. All went well. I'll see how long it takes her to turn green. The next one to molt will be my sub adult male. After that, it will be a while as the rest of the nymphs I have for breeding stock all have between 2 - 3 molts left.


----------



## agent A

R yours that r becoming adults the same age as mine? I love my L7 female  

She's presubadult right??


----------



## twolfe

I kept around 6 - 7 nymphs (two were normal sized and the rest were runts) from the first two ooths. So, the ones that molted to adults are either the same age as yours or five days younger, and the second ooth that hatched (same female), hatched five days after the first.

I'm not 100% certain of the number of molts with the b. mendica. But if she's an L7, then I'd think she would be a sub adult????


----------



## gripen

Tammy Wolfe said:


> I kept around 6 - 7 nymphs (two were normal sized and the rest were runts) from the first two ooths. So, the ones that molted to adults are either the same age as yours or five days younger, and the second ooth that hatched (same female), hatched five days after the first.
> 
> I'm not 100% certain of the number of molts with the b. mendica. But if she's an L7, then I'd think she would be a sub adult????


Nope L7 is pre-sub for females sub for males.


----------



## agent A

No fair  

I want mine to be adults  

What have u been feeding them???


----------



## twolfe

It's strange then that your female still has two molts to go. I have been moving mine out of the community net enclosure to their own enclosure once they are pre subs. So, it's easier for me to monitor how much they are eating. Their main diet is bb flies, but I have gotten my females to eat mealworms. I use them for emergency food and as a treat once a week.


----------



## agent A

I really need to get more deli cups


----------



## twolfe

Yesterday my first male molted to an adult. The females are in 80 ounce enclosures next to the male, and they were watching him. The interesting thing is that both of my females started to point the tip of their abdomens down and then would raise it up and down. I really don't know if this behavior is calling or something else. I have only seen my p wahlbergii females doing this. The females have been adults for a couple of weeks now.


----------



## kr1cket

Wow... I was just feeding a nymph a blue bottle and I put the fly on the lid next to it, it jumped in the air, landed on its side and pretended to be dead until I nudged it and flipped the lid.... I was laughing so hard... Is this normal behavior? It's eating the fly now, but I was surprised to see the acting bit....


----------



## agent A

Never seen it

Mine love to eat bees from outside


----------



## agent A

finally got an L7 male

not sure if he is subadult

here r a few closeups of him






wingbuds

and, why does something that comes from a DESERT need soo much hair??






head






him next to an unrelated, preserved dead adult male






so do u think he is subadult??


----------



## gripen

I got an L7 male a couple of days ago. He does not appear to be sub adult yet.


----------



## agent A

so maybe L8 is sub for both


----------



## twolfe

I never paid that close attention to the number of instars with this species, and I had trouble finding valid information when I googled. My two adult females are calling all the time now. But my first adult male has just molted a week ago. My first female that molted (the green morph) already laid an ooth yesterday. Of course, it's not fertile.... If I raise another generation, I'll separate one nymph and document each molt.


----------



## CoolMantid

Any adults or subs?


----------



## gripen

Hertarem45 said:


> Any adults or subs?


Mine are all still at L6-L7. One of my females has some green on her!


----------



## agent A

I have a subadult female now :clap:


----------



## gripen

agent A said:


> I have a subadult female now :clap:


L8?


----------



## agent A

gripen said:


> L8?


Yup


----------



## gripen

Nine. Mine ar about a week off.


----------



## Ddraig goch

Hi I am going to be having a 5th instar female Blepharopsis mendica come live with me soon  This thread has been a very useful read thanks guys


----------



## gripen

Good luck with her! If you have any questions PM me.



Ddraig goch said:


> Hi I am going to be having a 5th instar female Blepharopsis mendica come live with me soon  This thread has been a very useful read thanks guys


----------



## agent A

gripen said:


> Good luck with her! If you have any questions PM me.


And for that matter me too


----------



## Ddraig goch

Thanks guys  Jane


----------



## agent A

subadult female bleph:


----------



## agent A

anyone else seen purple bleph disease? i think it's some sorta infection, look at that purpley on the abdomen!

this guy was farthest away from heat lamp

maybe cooler temps contribute to pbd???


----------



## CoolMantid

I thought it was a fake thing you were making up...

I have noticed it about a couple weeks after death....


----------



## twolfe

That's too bad. How long after it died did you take that photo? I haven't had any issues with older nymphs dying for no apparent reason. Are you still keeping yours dry? I was saddened that I lost one of my adults (offspring from original) after I moved her to a room where the temps got too cold a few days. She stopped eating and never recovered, and I feel like it was my fault. The rest of mine are doing well.

On a positive note, my first adult female has already laid four ooths. The first one is definitely not fertile since she laid it prior to mating. Time will tell if the others are fertile.

Oh, and I found that one of my sub adult nymphs is green!


----------



## agent A

Hertarem45 said:


> I thought it was a fake thing you were making up...
> 
> I have noticed it about a couple weeks after death....


U have blephs??

The nymph was fine the day before and I didn't see it in the cage and I found it like that

I keep them really dry

Also one of my wahlbergii molted to L4, got sluggish and died


----------



## CoolMantid

No I dont. I noticed with another species. My male H. majucula. I froze him cause he was nearly alive but couldnt support himself up and wouldnt eat. Then I forgot about him and he turned a brownish/redish/ purplish color when I found him in the freezer


----------



## agent A

Yikes!! We do not have luck with the simplest species yet harder ones thrive with us


----------



## Ddraig goch

Hi guys any more news on the Blephs? Mine wasn't 5th instar at all she is pre-sub, and she is fine


----------



## agent A

Ddraig goch said:


> Hi guys any more news on the Blephs? Mine wasn't 5th instar at all she is pre-sub, and she is fine


i think yours is sub

mine r fine, havent fed them in 2 weeks, short on bbs but last night i dreampt i had hundreds B)


----------



## Ddraig goch

Aw  got to report that my little Blepharopsis mendica died today. I found her dead on the floor of her cage when I got home from work  She hadnt been trying to shed or anything, she just died. So sad as she was beautiful.


----------



## agent A

Oh no so sad  

I've only had 1 random death and it turned purple next day


----------



## twolfe

Good news! I will be raising another generation of Blepharopsis mendica mantids!

My first female (offspring from my original) molted to an adult on March 5. She laid her first ooth on March 26 before she mated. I mated her a few days later, and she laid her second ooth on April 1. Today it hatched. The hatchrate is low for an early ooth. There are 20 - 21 live nymphs and one hanging from the ooth. It's possible that more could hatch from the ooth. This female has laid a total of nine ooths so far! When she lays them close together, they are on the small side, but when she waited 6 - 7 days in between they are much larger. She laid her third ooth on April 5. We'll see if that one hatches next week!


----------



## CoolMantid

Yay!!!!


----------



## gripen

Tammy Wolfe said:


> Good news! I will be raising another generation of Blepharopsis mendica mantids!
> 
> My first female (offspring from my original) molted to an adult on March 5. She laid her first ooth on March 26 before she mated. I mated her a few days later, and she laid her second ooth on April 1. Today it hatched. The hatchrate is low for an early ooth. There are 20 - 21 live nymphs and one hanging from the ooth. It's possible that more could hatch from the ooth. This female has laid a total of nine ooths so far! When she lays them close together, they are on the small side, but when she waited 6 - 7 days in between they are much larger. She laid her third ooth on April 5. We'll see if that one hatches next week!


Nice work! Was this the green sub female?


----------



## agent A

Yay!! I may need some males in a few months


----------



## twolfe

gripen said:


> Nice work! Was this the green sub female?


Yes, she was the original green nymph that is in an earlier post in this thread. I had a second adult female but she died a few days after I moved her away from the heat and into another room. I'm not sure that's why, but I suspect it is since that is the first adult b mendica I've had that died prematurely. I had another nymph turn green as a sub adult, though she wasn't quite as vibrant as the first one. She molted to an adult last week. I sold my adult male, but I have one sub adult and a few pre sub males. I also have about a dozen nymphs, and there are probably a few more males.


----------



## agent A

I can't wait to see mine become adults

They love bees B)


----------



## agent A

Ok so I thought one wuz moltin to adult but it turns out it was only molting to subadult!!  

It's now an L8 female and is huge!! R u sure they can molt to adult in an 80oz cup??


----------



## twolfe

Yes, most of mine have molted in 80 ounce containers. I had one molt to an adult over the weekend in the net, and her wings aren't normal. I'm not sure what happened to her. Apparently she didn't hang the right way.

Tell yours to hurry up! One of their sisters has already laid 12 ooths so far. Six of them have hatched (including one today).


----------



## agent A

Tammy Wolfe said:


> Yes, most of mine have molted in 80 ounce containers. I had one molt to an adult over the weekend in the net, and her wings aren't normal. I'm not sure what happened to her. Apparently she didn't hang the right way.
> 
> Tell yours to hurry up! One of their sisters has already laid 12 ooths so far. Six of them have hatched (including one today).


Tammy I am afraid to ask how u keep yours

U get yours to adulthood and make them more prolific than CREOBROTER 2 times over while mine r not even adults yet

R u injecting them with muscle milk again?


----------



## twolfe

agent A said:


> Tammy I am afraid to ask how u keep yours
> 
> U get yours to adulthood and make them more prolific than CREOBROTER 2 times over while mine r not even adults yet
> 
> R u injecting them with muscle milk again?


I keep mine warm and well fed. Three of you have nymphs from my first two ooths that hatched. I only kept a small number from those first two ooths, and they all molted to adults. The rest of my stock are from the third and fourth ooths that hatched in late December/early January. They are pre and sub adults now. One other forum member has offspring from my nymphs, too. I guess mine really like hanging out in the laundry room. Now my Idolos are another story.... I have my third nymph turn green. This one is a sub adult male!


----------



## agent A

pic of subadult:


----------



## gripen

Nice!

I don't mean to sound like a troll but... I told you so :tt2:


----------



## agent A

never thought i'd see one mismolt &lt;_&lt; 











so i took care of the problem...


----------



## CoolMantid

Adorable!

I still dont understand how a bleph can mismolt lol


----------



## mutrok4040

Thanks guys, your thread has been helpful, especially since i'm getting a bleph on Wednesday... can't wait!

What kind of mantis is eating ur mismolt bleph A? Looks pretty


----------



## CoolMantid

That is his gravid Oxy


----------



## agent A

Hertarem45 said:


> That is his gravid Oxy


That wuz, she dead now...


----------



## mutrok4040

I hope her line continues in her babies!


----------



## agent A

mutrok4040 said:


> I hope her line continues in her babies!


me too

i have 3 L3 nymphs i dont want anymore, if u live in the US and want them send me a pm


----------



## mutrok4040

Aw, sorry, I don't have much money right now, and my mom wants me to slow down on buying mantids for a while.. sorry! I wish I could


----------



## agent A

mutrok4040 said:


> Aw, sorry, I don't have much money right now, and my mom wants me to slow down on buying mantids for a while.. sorry! I wish I could


oh, ok  

i will make sure they r healthy enough before offering them for sale


----------



## mutrok4040

What your fav mantid species?


----------



## agent A

mutrok4040 said:


> What your fav mantid species?


not sure


----------



## ShieldMantid1997

Status report please!


----------



## gripen

I have one sub adult female (thanks Alex!) and five pre sub males.


----------



## agent A

i have a subadult pair and a presub pair


----------



## mutrok4040

My L3 bleph is smaller than my L2 creo was!!! How much bigger do they get from L3 to L4


----------



## gripen

mutrok4040 said:


> My L3 bleph is smaller than my L2 creo was!!! How much bigger do they get from L3 to L4


Alot lol. My sub adult female is about 2 times the size of my adult female creo.


----------



## agent A

one of the females is ready to molt to adult

i might need a fresh adult male soon since my male is nowhere near adult

TAMMY!!!


----------



## gripen

agent A said:


> one of the females is ready to molt to adult
> 
> i might need a fresh adult male soon since my male is nowhere near adult
> 
> TAMMY!!!


Get pics! My female looks a couple of days away from the big moult. If anyone has ADULT males get in contact with me too.


----------



## agent A

gripen said:


> Get pics! My female looks a couple of days away from the big moult. If anyone has ADULT males get in contact with me too.


i only have a pair left since i sent my others out

i think i'm too generous :blush:


----------



## guapoalto049

My adult female has deposited 13 ooths so far, many many hatchlings!


----------



## agent A

female getting ready to get her wings


----------



## gripen

I am watching my female moult to adult as I type!!!!!


----------



## agent A

gripen said:


> I am watching my female moult to adult as I type!!!!!


Lucky! And yours became subadult after mine &lt;_&lt;


----------



## gripen

Hehehehehe... She is taking a long time to do the flip.


----------



## mantid_mike

gripen said:


> I am watching my female moult to adult as I type!!!!!


post pics, please! :shifty:


----------



## agent A

gripen said:


> Hehehehehe... She is taking a long time to do the flip.


Cocaine side effect... :lol:


----------



## gripen

Looks like she is only going to pump up two of her wings


----------



## gripen

Turns out she will for every be a 2 winged mantis  ( I won't love her any less though :wub: )


----------



## agent A

mine molted while i wuz away and she is awesome!


----------



## gripen

Has she turned green yet??? Get pics!


----------



## twolfe

agent A said:


> mine molted while i wuz away and she is awesome!


Congratulations! Is she still tan or was this a green nymph? So far, I have only had two green nymphs out of about eight that have molted to adults in this generation.


----------



## agent A

Tammy Wolfe said:


> Congratulations! Is she still tan or was this a green nymph? So far, I have only had two green nymphs out of about eight that have molted to adults in this generation.


shes an awesome green!! i will post pics in like 15 minutes

my male is still presub though, do u have a fresh adult male and a presub female so i can have 2 pairs again?


----------



## agent A

sorry it took so long i was watching my wahlbergii molt to adult

here r 2 pics, will take more later, i just got home like 2 hours ago and was on the road since 11 this morning


----------



## gripen

Lookin good! Looks just like mine minus the wings...grrrr


----------



## agent A

i'm concerned at the way she holds her thorax though  

i wuz gone for a week so she mustve molted at least several days ago

she ate like 2 flies today


----------



## gripen

Mine does that as well and she is fine. They need ALOT of food though! Mine eats 2 bees a day...


----------



## agent A

gripen said:


> Mine does that as well and she is fine. They need ALOT of food though! Mine eats 2 bees a day...


i put like 5 flies in there

i am worried she may have half starved and isnt eating for that reason...


----------



## gripen

I had to hand feed mine her first meals because she was not very coordinated :clown:


----------



## agent A

gripen said:


> I had to hand feed mine her first meals because she was not very coordinated :clown:


i tried that with mine but she didnt like it

she ate a few flies so it's a start...


----------



## twolfe

agent A said:


> shes an awesome green!! i will post pics in like 15 minutes
> 
> my male is still presub though, do u have a fresh adult male and a presub female so i can have 2 pairs again?


I had an adult turn green in less than 48 hours once, but it usually takes about a week for them to turn green.I don't have any fresh males right now but do have a couple of pre and sub adult males.

You may only need one male unless he doesn't get the job done. I just removed my only male (been an adult for about a month now) from my female's enclosure. He was living with her for two weeks. He finally mated with her a few days ago. Typcially the females don't eat the males until they have mated a couple of times. But there are no guarantees and are always exceptions.

I may have a surplus female but someone on this thread asked before you did. I'm holding onto my pre and sub adults until they molt and until I confirm my next female's ooths are fertile.


----------



## gripen

agent A said:


> i tried that with mine but she didnt like it
> 
> she ate a few flies so it's a start...


She should do fine  How is my male treatin ya?


----------



## agent A

Tammy Wolfe said:


> I had an adult turn green in less than 48 hours once, but it usually takes about a week for them to turn green.
> 
> I don't have any fresh males right now but do have a couple of pre and sub adult males.
> 
> You may only need one male unless he doesn't get the job done. I just removed my only male (been an adult for about a month now) from my female's enclosure. He was living with her for two weeks. He finally mated with her a few days ago. Typcially the females don't eat the males until they have mated a couple of times. But there are no guarantees and are always exceptions.
> 
> I may have a surplus female but someone on this thread asked before you did. I'm holding onto my pre and sub adults until they molt and until I confirm my next female's ooths are fertile.


ok well in that case...

how do i speed up the male then???


----------



## gripen

agent A said:


> ok well in that case...
> 
> how do i speed up the male then???


Yes do tell! All my males are pre-sub.


----------



## twolfe

Alex, you may want to put some water droplets on your hand and see if she is thirsty. I never spray my adults, but if she didn't have food for a while, then she may be dehydrated.

I have a feeding system that works well when one is away for about 7 - 9 days. I can't remember if I emailed you the details...


----------



## agent A

gripen said:


> She should do fine  How is my male treatin ya?


your male is a HUGE pain in the arse :lol: 

i threw like 12 flies in his cage before vacay

guess wat

ALL gone and he is STILL skinny  

other than that he is fine

lucky he didnt burn alive like my male and our females' sis in uknowwho's little blaze

and to the person who STARTED the fire, i am NOT still mad about it i come from an area where it is perfectly acceptable to continue talking or joking about some flaw or mistake someone made LONG after the issue was resolved so please dont get offended we here in my family still joke about when i accidentally pushed my sis down the basement stairs when i was like 5...


----------



## gripen

Tammy Wolfe said:


> Alex, you may want to put some water droplets on your hand and see if she is thirsty. I never spray my adults, but if she didn't have food for a while, then she may be dehydrated.
> 
> I have a feeding system that works well when one is away for about 7 - 9 days. I can't remember if I emailed you the details...


If you could share that system with all of us I think that would be great  I will be gone for a two week vacation soon and would like to know how you do it.


----------



## agent A

Tammy Wolfe said:


> Alex, you may want to put some water droplets on your hand and see if she is thirsty. I never spray my adults, but if she didn't have food for a while, then she may be dehydrated.
> 
> I have a feeding system that works well when one is away for about 7 - 9 days. I can't remember if I emailed you the details...


will do

my feeding system is simple

if gonna molt-2 fiies

if not gonna molt-whole handful of flies...

u never emailed me the details but please do


----------



## gripen

agent A said:


> your male is a HUGE pain in the arse :lol:
> 
> i threw like 12 flies in his cage before vacay
> 
> guess wat
> 
> ALL gone and he is STILL skinny
> 
> other than that he is fine
> 
> lucky he didnt burn alive like my male and our females' sis in uknowwho's little blaze
> 
> and to the person who STARTED the fire, i am NOT still mad about it i come from an area where it is perfectly acceptable to continue talking or joking about some flaw or mistake someone made LONG after the issue was resolved so please dont get offended we here in my family still joke about when i accidentally pushed my sis down the basement stairs when i was like 5...


Glad he is pissing you off (and survived the blaze!), I trained him well.


----------



## agent A

gripen said:


> Glad he is pissing you off (and survived the blaze!), I trained him well.


he survived the blaze cause he wasnt in it

the person who roasted the other pair was origionally supposed to get an ooth of them in trade for a limbata ooth

but i decided instead to send a pair, which he kept too close to a heat lamp and killed them, my unicorn female, and my creo female

BUT i gotta give him credit for getting both my californica to adult and keeping my lobata safe as they molted to L2...


----------



## agent A

oh yeah and TAMMY!!!

i love your idea of 80oz deli cups

BUT...

when they fall or something they come open too easily

i always drop my bleph cages and they open AND while i was away a windstorm knocked over an 80 ouncer with a lineola in it and she escaped

so if she survives and turns parthenogenic and overtakes CT u, me, and hibiscusmile will be in a heap of trouble :lol:


----------



## gripen

Mine do fine in 24oz cups. They don't seem to wander much.


----------



## agent A

gripen said:


> Mine do fine in 24oz cups. They don't seem to wander much.


lineola? even for final molt?

i was in your area today but my mom wouldnt let me go say hi &lt;_&lt;


----------



## twolfe

gripen said:


> If you could share that system with all of us I think that would be great  I will be gone for a two week vacation soon and would like to know how you do it.


It's helpful if you still have someone spray the appropriate mantises now and then.As for feeding mantises that eat bb flies, I buy bb larvae (aka "spikes" not pupae) a few weeks ahead of time and put them in the refrigerator. They usually take 7 - 9 days to eclose. So, about 8 days before I leave, I take the appropriate number of flies needed for each mantis and put them in a container on the counter to allow them to develop. Within a day or two they usually are in the pupae stage. I take out larvae every day for a week and end up with 7 containers full of pupae. Then the day before I leave, I drop the appropriate # pupae into each enclosure (e.g., my female b mendica each get 3 bb pupae each day. For a one week trip, they would have 21 pupae). In theory some bb flies should hatch every day. For extended trips that last 10 - 12 days, I take out extra larvae on the last day.

I actually tested this in advance before one of my trips, and it has worked pretty well except that a few of the pupae that were under heat lamps did not eclose. It's better than just dumping in a bunch of pupae that were all removed at the same time because then too many hatch at the same time. If you do that, your mantis may eat too much or get bothered by excessive flies. Also, the ones that aren't eaten will just die. Now when I go on a trip, I adjust the air conditioner in the summer so that it's a little warmer in the house, and I turn off all of the heat lamps that I use for the mantises but leave on the ones for the turtles. I also have some plastic enclosures on heat mats, and I ensure the flies are not directly on the heat mat.

I take a few additional steps for older nymphs/pre/sub adults living together in net enclosures which involves adding extra pupae and a food source for the flies. It keeps them alive longer, and they aren't pestering the mantises when they are in the container with the food.

I travelled a lot the past 15 months, and have only lost a couple of adults while I was away, though I did have a few mismolts when I was in Colorado in June. Just bad timing...

Again, it really helps if you can have someone spray your mantises that need extra humidity or may molt while you are away.

The method for feeding smaller nymphs has probably been discussed on the forum before. You may also want to search for "vacation" and see if others have ideas.

Send me a pm if you have questions.


----------



## twolfe

agent A said:


> oh yeah and TAMMY!!!
> 
> i love your idea of 80oz deli cups
> 
> BUT...
> 
> when they fall or something they come open too easily
> 
> i always drop my bleph cages and they open AND while i was away a windstorm knocked over an 80 ouncer with a lineola in it and she escaped
> 
> so if she survives and turns parthenogenic and overtakes CT u, me, and hibiscusmile will be in a heap of trouble :lol:


Well, I can't help it if you are a bit clumsy.  . And are your containers outside???? Are you putting your lids on tight? Mine rarely come off. I try to only drop them when they are empty.


----------



## agent A

Tammy Wolfe said:


> Well, I can't help it if you are a bit clumsy.  . And are your containers outside???? Are you putting your lids on tight? Mine rarely come off. I try to only drop them when they are empty.


Lol I am majorly clumsy  

They r outside in the summer

It's amazing how big blephs get at the final molt


----------



## CoolMantid

Should I buy some blephs? I kno a guy who is selling a sub pair? Are the really hard to raise?


----------



## agent A

Blephs r easy

I say go for it!!


----------



## CoolMantid

Its 35 shipped for the pair. Do they molt to adult easily???


----------



## agent A

Hertarem45 said:


> Its 35 shipped for the pair. Do they molt to adult easily???


Mine molted to adult during a windstorm so yes


----------



## CoolMantid

oh good. ok


----------



## agent A

I know wat is wrong with the bleph!! She's constipated and refuses to drink anything

Can someone help me please?


----------



## agent A

the female bleph wasnt very fat but laid an infertile ooth last night &lt;_&lt; 

will get pics later


----------



## agent A

pics:


----------



## gripen

Nice looking ooth. Is the male sub adult yet?


----------



## agent A

gripen said:


> Is the male sub adult yet?


NO!

did your female lay an ooth yet?


----------



## gripen

No but she is close.


----------



## agent A

did she mate yet?


----------



## gripen

I have no adult males. All pre sub.


----------



## gripen

Little catch up. My female has laid one ooth and it looks like another is on the way. I just had a male moult to sub adult as well!


----------



## Mime454

Was anyone trying to keep these in deli cups? I don't think that they can tolerate the cloth lids. All of mine would invariably get stuck where they couldn't move on the lid. I've switched my last remaining one to a smaller cup with a coffee filter for the lid.


----------



## gripen

Mime454 said:


> Was anyone trying to keep these in deli cups? I don't think that they can tolerate the cloth lids. All of mine would invariably get stuck where they couldn't move on the lid. I've switched my last remaining one to a smaller cup with a coffee filter for the lid.


Mine did fine on cloth lids. they lived on them there whole lives.


----------



## sinensispsyched

I should be getting some bleph nymphs or an ooth next week, I sure can't wait to try out this incredible species!


----------



## Mime454

My last one fell during a molt. I think that the lid really messed up his feet so much that he couldn't grip anything. Plan to get more though soon. Hopefully will have better luck, I've never lost a species so fast.


----------



## sinensispsyched

I have got an ooth incubating under 90 oF for 14 hour days with a drop to 68 oF at night. I have a cloth lid deli with excelsior and sanded sides. Oh, and i mist abt every other day. Does this sound suffient?

If it hatches, I'll have a lot of excess nymphs for sale within the next month!


----------



## twolfe

Mime454 said:


> My last one fell during a molt. I think that the lid really messed up his feet so much that he couldn't grip anything. Plan to get more though soon. Hopefully will have better luck, I've never lost a species so fast.


When I keep the nymphs in plastic enclosures, I do use a cloth lid until I switch them from Melanogaster ff to Hydei ff. I also keep rafia in the deli cup. Most hang out on the lid. I haven't had too many issues with molting. You could try adding some sticks next time.


----------



## Mime454

Tammy Wolfe said:


> When I keep the nymphs in plastic enclosures, I do use a cloth lid until I switch them from Melanogaster ff to Hydei ff. I also keep rafia in the deli cup. Most hang out on the lid. I haven't had too many issues with molting. You could try adding some sticks next time.


I had raffia, but no sticks. I'll try that when I get some again.


----------



## RevWillie

I got a great tip from RichS - if you are short on houseflies, or the B. mendica are being finicky, THEY LOVE HYDEI. Every time I put 5-10 Hydei in with my L4/L5s, they inhale them as fast as they can!

... and Hydei are easier to get and maintain in the dead of winter than other flies.


----------



## sally

Blepharopsis molting question..... My male and female both molted to adult the same day( middle of June). It is now middle of August. I have 2 girls from the same hatch that are still sub adult and have not molted for 2 months. They are eating and seem fine. They were kept exactly the same as the other B mendicas but won't molt. What is going on? Anybody know?


----------



## twolfe

Wish I knew. Do they have any injuries? If they are healing or missing a leg, they can take longer.

With this species, I sometimes have one that stalls and takes longer to molt to an adult. A former forum member and I got our first nymphs around the same time (May/June 2011). I sent him a male that was offspring from my original stock that he mated with a female that was from original stock. The majority of mine typically molt to adults about four months after they hatch. His took over eight months. But I've had a few that took longer.

Hope yours do OK!


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## sally

Thanks, Tammy. They aren't missing anything. They seem normal, just growing verrry sloooowly, lol.


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