# EMERGENCY!!!



## MantidLord (Oct 17, 2009)

Okay, I come home and find that my western fence lizard is in the corner of his container bleeding from the mouth. Either he banged his head on the glass or the he was overwhelmed by crickets or both. I took all the crickets out of the container and I wiped his mouth with a damp cloth. He's still breathing at the moment but he can hardly move his limbs (possibly in shock) and I can easily tip him over as you can see below. I put him back in the container for now after taking pics. I need ANY advice as to what to do. I don't know if he'll make it or not, and I really pray he'll pull through thank you. Here are the pics.


----------



## sbugir (Oct 17, 2009)

Put him under a bit of heat, and mist him. He looks okay. He may be playing dead. I really doubt crickets munched on him, he'd get too annoyed. I'll be hoping for the little dude


----------



## MantidLord (Oct 18, 2009)

lemmiwinks said:


> Put him under a bit of heat, and mist him. He looks okay. He may be playing dead. I really doubt crickets munched on him, he'd get too annoyed. I'll be hoping for the little dude


Thank-you. I'll put him under some heat. Anything else? He's really limp and not moving even when I grab his tail. And I doubt that crickets got to him but I saw a crick on his mouth before I took him out. And there is blood on the glass so I'm thinking he hit his mouth. Thanks for the optimism.


----------



## sbugir (Oct 18, 2009)

Yeah, what conditions do you keep him under at the moment? Crickets were most likely thirsty, hence them on the mouth? Have you used any other feeders? And can you post a picture of his enclosure?


----------



## sbugir (Oct 18, 2009)

http://www.birdandhike.com/Wildlife/Lizard.../_Sce_occ_b.htm 3rd pic from the bottom, might be playing dead, but for the explanation of blood? I can't see how he'd hurt his head "intentionally" even running into it probably wouldn't cause it to bleed. Bleeding from the mouth seems like a hemorrhage to me.

"Another ploy in avoiding predation is to "play dead" or, alternatively, to become very rigid ("tonic immobility"). Some predators stop their attack when the prey becomes limp or rigid and appears lifeless. They rely on behavioral cues in performing their attack, and a "dead" lizard does not supply these." http://www.gopetsamerica.com/reptiles/lizards.aspx


----------



## MantidLord (Oct 18, 2009)

I keep him at room temperature and spray him twice a day. I fed him fruit flies when he was young and now he only eats crix. I give him the occasional fruit as well (carrots, tomatoe). I know how ruthless crix are with mantids so I wouldn't surprised if they were taking advantage of the situation here are some pics of the enclosure. As you can see, he won't even move. If i nudge him he moves an inch or so and he is very weak.


----------



## MantidLord (Oct 18, 2009)

lemmiwinks said:


> http://www.birdandhike.com/Wildlife/Lizard.../_Sce_occ_b.htm 3rd pic from the bottom, might be playing dead, but for the explanation of blood? I can't see how he'd hurt his head "intentionally" even running into it probably wouldn't cause it to bleed. Bleeding from the mouth seems like a hemorrhage to me."Another ploy in avoiding predation is to "play dead" or, alternatively, to become very rigid ("tonic immobility"). Some predators stop their attack when the prey becomes limp or rigid and appears lifeless. They rely on behavioral cues in performing their attack, and a "dead" lizard does not supply these." http://www.gopetsamerica.com/reptiles/lizards.aspx


Yeah, he's played dead before, even started with the rigid limbs and such but this is an actual injury and the only time he plays dead is after I fail in my attempts to take him out of the container.


----------



## sbugir (Oct 18, 2009)

Enclosure looks "OK", he is moving though you say? Inches is good. Even so, if he was attacked by crix, he easily could have climbed those sticks. I'd give him some heat and see how he goes, if you have a basking/heat lamp I'd use it, these guys like to bask. His feet aren't curled so he looks alright, I remember when my lizards passed they curled the feet and were limp. In the above pics he looks stiff, my guess he's only playing dead, and I don't know why. You don't have any siblings that may have scared him or a cat/dog or other animal that might have done the same? If you read above on the links, you'll read something about them becoming rigid to avoid predation. Hopefully that's the case. Good luck man, I'll be praying for him, I love lizards  .

Okay, just read your above post, so he has played dead? Then I only assume crickets attacked him or maybe scratched his head on the rocks you have. If that's the case, some talcum powder should do the trick to heal his wound relatively quick. Is it a deep wound? My eyes are lacking...

Maybe just a suggestion is to switch the substrate to sand, and sand any knots in sticks. Probably won't make too much of a difference, but you won't have to use as many rocks for heat, which, if the rock is the cause of his wound, would prevent stuff like this.


----------



## MantidLord (Oct 18, 2009)

Yeah, he moves only when I touch him and he kinda wriggles abnormally. The wound doesn't seem deep, but the blood stain is still on is "beak". I've heard of beardies getting attacked by cricks during their sleep, so I guess it's possible for this lizard too. I'll have to change the substrate and if he makes it through I'll put him in a larger enclosure. He was in my room and the house was empty, so nothing would have scared him. Thanks for the consideration, I'll keep it updated.


----------



## Emile.Wilson (Oct 18, 2009)

Next time make sure to smash the crickets mouth parts, or feed your lizard something that does not pack as much bite.


----------



## DeadInTheBasement (Oct 18, 2009)

or do what 95% of caresheets say and NEVER leave crickets wth your lizard except durring feeding time....


----------



## Rick (Oct 18, 2009)

I thought he was much larger than he is. I was thinking there is no way crickets did that until I saw how small he was and even then I have my doubts. Nobody here is a reptile vet so you need to call one.


----------



## MantidLord (Oct 18, 2009)

Okay, thanks for the replies everyone. And Emile I'll have to try either another food or smashing the mouths. Dead in the basement, this lizard doesn't seem to adapt to a "feeding schedule". He will eat a cricket or two, then digest for an unspecified amount of time, and then eat some more. So I leave two or three crix in there in order for him to eat when he's ready. On top of that, he usually buries himself in the soil for most of the day.

Right now, he's able to wriggle around a lot better than last night though he'll only move if I poke him. The salt excretions are on his nose (like normal) and he's just laying there drifting in and out of sleep. I called the vet and she said not to feed him, provide water, and make sure he's warm.

Oh, and Rick, due to the blood on the glass corner, I don't think the crix did it to him either, they probably just capitalized on the opportunity.


----------



## Rick (Oct 18, 2009)

MantidLord said:


> Okay, thanks for the replies everyone. And Emile I'll have to try either another food or smashing the mouths. Dead in the basement, this lizard doesn't seem to adapt to a "feeding schedule". He will eat a cricket or two, then digest for an unspecified amount of time, and then eat some more. So I leave two or three crix in there in order for him to eat when he's ready. On top of that, he usually buries himself in the soil for most of the day.Right now, he's able to wriggle around a lot better than last night though he'll only move if I poke him. The salt excretions are on his nose (like normal) and he's just laying there drifting in and out of sleep. I called the vet and she said not to feed him, provide water, and make sure he's warm.
> 
> Oh, and Rick, due to the blood on the glass corner, I don't think the crix did it to him either, they probably just capitalized on the opportunity.


My uromastyx busted up his mouth by rubbing on the glass. It literally took years to heal up and disappear.


----------



## MantidLord (Oct 19, 2009)

Rick said:


> My uromastyx busted up his mouth by rubbing on the glass. It literally took years to heal up and disappear.


Wow, that sounds horrible. Well did it still live normally with the injury? He seems a little better today. Still no food, he's laying down right now, but this morning I saw his tail sticking out of the soil, so I know that he is able to dig still. He moved around a little bit though.

One more thing Rick (or anyone), how do you prevent them from injuring themselves on the glass? I've never had this problem with my beardie.


----------



## Rick (Oct 19, 2009)

MantidLord said:


> Wow, that sounds horrible. Well did it still live normally with the injury? He seems a little better today. Still no food, he's laying down right now, but this morning I saw his tail sticking out of the soil, so I know that he is able to dig still. He moved around a little bit though.One more thing Rick (or anyone), how do you prevent them from injuring themselves on the glass? I've never had this problem with my beardie.


He was fine. I was wrong. Mine actually did it in transit from the breeder. I was thinking of something else. He acted normally. If I were you I would put up something to block his view. Being able to see through the glass stresses them out and they will try to escape. You can use something as simple as paper to block his view of the outside.


----------



## MantidLord (Oct 19, 2009)

Rick said:


> He was fine. I was wrong. Mine actually did it in transit from the breeder. I was thinking of something else. He acted normally. If I were you I would put up something to block his view. Being able to see through the glass stresses them out and they will try to escape. You can use something as simple as paper to block his view of the outside.


That sounds like a pretty simple idea. I bet he thought he could reach freedom and then found out the hard way (sort of like how birds hit windows). He's still limp but breathing and is regaining his motor functions. Idk if his brain was knocked loose or what, because he only moves at the bare minimum. He'd rather play dead than run away, which is completely different than before this incident. I hope he regains his composure by the time he starts getting hungry though.


----------



## MantidLord (Oct 23, 2009)

Sadly, the little guy didn't make it. I came home from school today, checked on him and his body was as stiff as a board. I buried the little man, gave 30 seconds of silence, prayed over him, and said goodbye. Thanks everyone for the support, he will surely be missed by me. Next time I will regulate food control, make sand the official substrate, and maybe even pad the corners of the container so they don't injure themselves.


----------



## sbugir (Oct 23, 2009)




----------



## Rick (Oct 24, 2009)

Sorry to hear. Be careful with sand. Use play sand or pool sand. Don't buy that reptile sand ###### you see in pet stores. It can cause impaction.


----------



## cloud jaguar (Oct 24, 2009)

Rick said:


> Don't buy that reptile sand ###### you see in pet stores. It can cause impaction.


Rick, what is impaction? do they ge constipated from eating the sand or something?


----------



## MantidLord (Oct 24, 2009)

Arkanis said:


> Rick, what is impaction? do they ge constipated from eating the sand or something?


I believe so. Though not from eating it on purpose, accidental ingestion from catching prey, and then being unable to digest it.

Thanks Rick for the advice and condolences. I'll keep that in mind.


----------

