# Beginner setup, please evaluate :)



## Bdawg (Nov 3, 2017)

Just got this set up, awaiting arrival of my first. Praying Mantids, a pair of Miomantis Paykullii (hope they both make it) and I have this basic set up, and just want to make sure this will suffice. 

I have paper towel at the bottom, I have coir substrate arriving tomorrow, but in the even the Mantids arrive first, then they have a home set up. I sourced branches from a tree outside, cleaned them in hot water, then gave them about 20ish minutes in the oven to sanitize them. I cleaned the jars with a fresh sponge, little tiny bit of warning up liquid and thoroughly rinsed with hot water. 

For the lid, I have mesh arriving tomorrow, but drilled plenty of tiny ventilation holes, see picture. In case mesh arrives late, I did this to ensure it would at least do them in the meantime. When the mesh arrives I shall either drill large holes and line the entire underside with mesh, or remove the entire lid except the rim, and have it all be mesh, depending on what you guys recommend. Also, would minimal use of superglue suffice to fix the mesh to the lid?

I have 2 identical setups, in the event the spare nymph also makes it here safely. 

Please give me an honest critique, as I only want the best for these little guys.


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## Connor (Nov 3, 2017)

Everything looks good! They need something to molt in correctly so I recommend gluing mesh to the top of the enclosure. 

Dont get too nervous about their conditions as mantis are pretty hardy in my opinion.


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## Bdawg (Nov 3, 2017)

Connor said:


> Everything looks good! They need something to molt in correctly so I recommend gluing mesh to the top of the enclosure.
> 
> Dont get too nervous about their conditions as mantis are pretty hardy in my opinion.


Thanks, my main concern is the ventilation holes being too tiny. I was thinking of keeping it at the angle in the photo, and gluing some mesh to the glass at the top, maybe down the middle of the jar. Either that or just placing it lid side facing straight up, with much wider holes with mesh glued like you said.


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## Connor (Nov 3, 2017)

Yeah putting the lid straight up might be a better idea. Your ventilation should be fine but bigger holes would be fine as well.


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## Bdawg (Nov 3, 2017)

I'll put some slightly bigger holes in them, then when the mesh arrives I can put much bigger ventilation holes there.


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## Bdawg (Nov 3, 2017)

The first one was a bit of a write off, but I've rescued with bigger holes, the second one is a lot cleaner. Had to take some sandpaper to them to get the plastic stuff off, you know the scuff that happens, think it's melted plastic from the heat of the drill or something. Will this definitely be enough ventilation, if the mesh doesn't arrive tomorrow? When the mesh arrives I'll make holes the size of pennies to allow plenty of ventilation, but without the Mantids of its prey escaping. Just doesn't look like enough ventilation to me. Any ideas how to clean up the holes, or have I screwed it up?


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## Bdawg (Nov 3, 2017)

The first one was a bit of a write off, but I've rescued with bigger holes, the second one is a lot cleaner. Had to take some sandpaper to them to get the plastic stuff off, you know the scuff that happens, think it's melted plastic from the heat of the drill or something. Will this definitely be enough ventilation, if the mesh doesn't arrive tomorrow? When the mesh arrives I'll make holes the size of pennies to allow plenty of ventilation, but without the Mantids of its prey escaping. Just doesn't look like enough ventilation to me. Any ideas how to clean up the holes, or have I screwed it up?


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## Bdawg (Nov 3, 2017)

Unrelated, I read that parthenogenisis is common, does that mean I may a high chance of having eggsacs laid?


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## Bdawg (Nov 3, 2017)

Bdawg said:


> Also, any ideas for decoration? Live plants, fake plants etc. Gonna look pretty bland with just coir at the bottom, and some twigs. Plus if it looks pretty the missus will be happier about them being on the mantle ?


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## Bdawg (Nov 3, 2017)

Almost forgot to ask, when the little guys get here, what's the protocol? Place their container in their new home, open, let them come out in their own time? How long before they should be handled?


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## Aristalochia (Nov 3, 2017)

Hey Bdawd, welcome. I have two female Miomantis who have laid a couple ootheca(august), but they didn't hatch so far. Meanwhile some mated ones I just bought hatched already (in about a month)


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## Connor (Nov 3, 2017)

The holes are big enough so don’t worry. Not sure about mios being parthenogenetic. 

As far as when they arrive you can handle them as soon as you want. They aren’t as fragile as you seem to think. You can put them in their enclosure or you can put their container in. Whatever works. But if they seem to small for the containers then I would recommend keeping them in whatever they were shipped in. As long as they weren’t shipped in something too small. Send some pictures and I can help.


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## Bdawg (Nov 3, 2017)

How long have they been waiting to hatch?


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## Bdawg (Nov 3, 2017)

Connor said:


> The holes are big enough so don’t worry. Not sure about mios being parthenogenetic.
> 
> As far as when they arrive you can handle them as soon as you want. They aren’t as fragile as you seem to think. You can put them in their enclosure or you can put their container in. Whatever works. But if they seem to small for the containers then I would recommend keeping them in whatever they were shipped in. As long as they weren’t shipped in something too small. Send some pictures and I can help.


I'll upload photos as soon as they arrive, should be before 1pm Saturday.


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## Bdawg (Nov 3, 2017)

Aristalochia said:


> Hey Bdawd, welcome. I have two female Miomantis who have laid a couple ootheca(august), but they didn't hatch so far. Meanwhile some mated ones I just bought hatched already (in about a month)


Have they passed the hatch time and rendered duds now? Can you keep the habitats within view of each other, or best to keep something between them as not to stress them?


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

Final inspection, just sprayed with some bottles water, with a little boiling water to warm it slightly so it's cosy for when they get in,  they're at my local depot and it's cold. Will the branches go moldy? They were cleaned then baked for about 20 minutes so should be sterile.


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

The sticks sterile enough after being baked for less than 30 minutes? Should I sand the top layer off too? They were trimmed then cleaned by being sprayed with the hottest water from the shower then baked.


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

Just realised how stupid that was, they live on branches. Sleep deprived, just ignore me ?


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## Connor (Nov 4, 2017)

You’re good on the branches. I used to bake mine... now I just make sure there is nothing on them. Never had any troubles.


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## PrayingMantisPets (Nov 4, 2017)

Bdawg said:


> The sticks sterile enough after being baked for less than 30 minutes? Should I sand the top layer off too? They were trimmed then cleaned by being sprayed with the hottest water from the shower then baked.


I used dip them into boiling water its faster. Enclosure looking good.


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

Connor said:


> You’re good on the branches. I used to bake mine... now I just make sure there is nothing on them. Never had any troubles.


I didn't want it looking too busy, but I've added extra twigs for variety.  Do you guys use lights or a heatpad? Concerned about humidity, my gauge hasn't arrived and the droplets are disappearing quickly, the paper towel is still a little moist though. Can I put a bottlecap with water or mushed up banana or even cat food? I read that cat food is a favourite for some.


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

PrayingMantisPets said:


> I used dip them into boiling water its faster. Enclosure looking good.


Gonna get some silk plants or flowers to wrap around some branches, they'll surely feel more secure when they have some proper hiding spots.


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## Connor (Nov 4, 2017)

You are over thinking it man. You bought one of the hardiest species out there. Give the enclosure a spray every day/every other day. Miomantis don’t need extra heat as far as I know of. As long as the temp is around 70-80 degrees Fahrenheit.

You can add branches and flowers but that’s only going to affect you negatively in my opinion. Mantis don’t hide, they are the predator. They need to be in the open so they can catch flies and such. I have never found any of my mantis is some tiny little crevice or something; always out in the open. The more stuff you add the harder it will be for your mantis to catch its food.

Mantis will only eat moving food, unless you hand feed or force feed them other stuff.


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

Connor said:


> You are over thinking it man. You bought one of the hardiest species out there. Give the enclosure a spray every day/every other day. Miomantis don’t need extra heat as far as I know of. As long as the temp is around 70-80 degrees Fahrenheit.
> 
> You can add branches and flowers but that’s only going to affect you negatively in my opinion. Mantis don’t hide, they are the predator. They need to be in the open so they can catch flies and such. I have never found any of my mantis is some tiny little crevice or something; always out in the open. The more stuff you add the harder it will be for your mantis to catch its food.
> 
> Mantis will only eat moving food, unless you hand feed or force feed them other stuff.


Yeah you're right. They do seem pretty tough. Do you know if they eat any fruit? Gonna stick a bottlecap with a tiny piece of cat food in, one hasn't eaten but I suspect it may be about to molt.


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## Connor (Nov 4, 2017)

As I said in my previous post, they will not eat anything not moving without you helping them. Some treats for them would be bananas, honey, or I’ve heard of cat food. But for them to eat that stuff you need to physically hand feed them. Like stuff it in their face. But those are treats, should not be fed as a stable food source. Mantis will stop eating for a day or two if they are going to molt.


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

Connor said:


> As I said in my previous post, they will not eat anything not moving without you helping them. Some treats for them would be bananas, honey, or I’ve heard of cat food. But for them to eat that stuff you need to physically hand feed them. Like stuff it in their face. But those are treats, should not be fed as a stable food source. Mantis will stop eating for a day or two if they are going to molt.


Just tried one with a little mashed banana on a chopstick, then my fingertip. Think it had a taste, but not sure if it was enjoying it or washing the stink off by obsessively cleaning itself. Anyone good at sexing them? https://anonimage.net/image/8A3s0xGl


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## Connor (Nov 4, 2017)

They can not be sexed at L2. For a miomantis you will probably have to wait until like L4


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

Connor said:


> They can not be sexed at L2. For a miomantis you will probably have to wait until like L4


My bad, just posted a topic on it. I'll bump at that post when it molts again. Number 1 (the one who was housed first) hasnt eaten much but had a taste of banana, but is very tame, had it on my hand for a few minutes without issue. They're just curious little guys, it's awesome watching and learning from Mantids. About to take Number 2 out, I suspect it'll be the same.


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## Connor (Nov 4, 2017)

Yep mantis are amazing creatures!


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

Connor said:


> Yep mantis are amazing creatures!


Already I'm noticing distinct personalities. The one I haven't seen eat is the friendlier more curious one, and the other who was chomping a fly before I transferred him is way more timid, yet still friendly.


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

Would it be necessary to drop a wet cottonball in there for moisture, or will the daily misting be fine? It looks as though there is only a slightly damp paper towel now, the glass is dry. Also, do you guys use tap or bottled? I've been using bottled with a dash of boiled water to warm slightly.


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## Connor (Nov 4, 2017)

Not necessary to drop a cottonball. Paper towel is fine. I use tap water but I know a lot of people use filtered.


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

Connor said:


> Not necessary to drop a cottonball. Paper towel is fine. I use tap water but I know a lot of people use filtered.


Even a slightly damp paper towel? I keep thinking I need to mist it. Warm water misting?


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## Connor (Nov 4, 2017)

As long as it is damp when you first spray it you should be fine. I use room temp water. But if I’m feeling nice I’ll get some hot water lol


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

Connor said:


> As long as it is damp when you first spray it you should be fine. I use room temp water. But if I’m feeling nice I’ll get some hot water lol


Awesome, guess I really don't need to worry. What would you say are the top 3 things you need to watch out for? 

Dead food?

Making sure there are 2-3 fruit flies at one time

And keeping the towel slightly damp with a spray a day approximately?


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## Connor (Nov 4, 2017)

Top 4 things I look out for:

Mantis throwup(black dots that are different from fly throwup)

Behavior change

Slow growers(not molting for a while after siblings do)

Not eating a entire fly and is skinny

Your list: 

Dead food doesn’t seem to bother them

You don’t need flies in at all times. As long as they look plump they are fine.

I spray every day to every 3 days to every 2 weeks depending on species. I make sure I get the paper towel damp. But it will dry up in ~10 minutes.


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

Connor said:


> Top 4 things I look out for:
> 
> Mantis throwup(black dots that are different from fly throwup)
> 
> ...


The one that ate as soon as it was unboxed did leave a small piece of fly. Shall I spray to make sure the towel is damp or will they be fine for water for until tomorrow? One hasn't been eating yet, but did taste some banana. They take some time to adjust after being tossed about in a postbag?


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

If you could check out the photos of both of them and see if it gives you an estimate of age, and when I could expect them to molt, I'll keep an eye out for the signs and keep food out of there whilst they molt in peace. 

https://anonimage.net/image/swFW8fWMEV

https://anonimage.net/image/Ab9J3OmThH


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## Connor (Nov 4, 2017)

Sometimes mantis leave small bits of a fly. I’m talking about taking a bite then dropping the entire fly. It really doesn’t matter if you spray it or not. You’re over complicating it. Just make sure they get something to drink every few days. If they’ve had a rough trip they might need some accumulating although most of mine will eat straight out of the package. 

What was the mantis standing on in the first pic? 

Im going to guess they are L2 by the fact that you bought them L2... I really have no idea. You can’t really tell when a mantis will molt through a picture. Just look for the warning signs. But make sure to try and feed them everyday. If they continue to ignore food for 2+ days they should be getting ready to molt.


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

Connor said:


> Sometimes mantis leave small bits of a fly. I’m talking about taking a bite then dropping the entire fly. It really doesn’t matter if you spray it or not. You’re over complicating it. Just make sure they get something to drink every few days. If they’ve had a rough trip they might need some accumulating although most of mine will eat straight out of the package.
> 
> What was the mantis standing on in the first pic?
> 
> Im going to guess they are L2 by the fact that you bought them L2... I really have no idea. You can’t really tell when a mantis will molt through a picture. Just look for the warning signs. But make sure to try and feed them everyday. If they continue to ignore food for 2+ days they should be getting ready to molt.


The first one is the one that is eating, and he is standing on the rim of the lid, I used thread to attach the mesh through the holes last minute instead of glue, so I managed it without chemicals. Was a little rushed but it does the job. What were the warning signs again? The breeder said L2 or L3 in the ad, so wasn't too sure, haven't heard back since I got them.


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## Connor (Nov 4, 2017)

Oh wow. That enclosure is WAY too big for that tiny nymph. You need to put them in something a little smaller and easier to control. 

Dried hot glue is not harmful to mantis so don’t worry about that.

Warning signs: ignoring prey, pumping abdomen, not moving much, sluggish, etc


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

Connor said:


> Oh wow. That enclosure is WAY too big for that tiny nymph. You need to put them in something a little smaller and easier to control.
> 
> Dried hot glue is not harmful to mantis so don’t worry about that.
> 
> Warning signs: ignoring prey, pumping abdomen, not moving much, sluggish, etc


What sort of thing would do for that size? Not too sure I have anything laying around at the moment.


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## Connor (Nov 4, 2017)

Any little deli cups or some kind of plastic cup kind of container should work perfect. Container should be at least height wise 3x the length of the mantis and width wise 2x the length of the mantis.


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

Connor said:


> Any little deli cups or some kind of plastic cup kind of container should work perfect. Container should be at least height wise 3x the length of the mantis and width wise 2x the length of the mantis.


https://anonimage.net/image/sTbHY1r4sL


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## Connor (Nov 4, 2017)

Idk exactly how big your mantis is. Just put thre mantis next to it and see if it is 3x as tall as the length of the mantis and the width 2x


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

Connor said:


> Idk exactly how big your mantis is. Just put thre mantis next to it and see if it is 3x as tall as the length of the mantis and the width 2x


Done.

 https://anonimage.net/image/LrcpZb7wMe

https://anonimage.net/image/n8oANurm1L

Found a couple of these pots that I forgot I had.  Perfect size for them and they have a fruit fly too. Should be good for a while. How often do they molt approximately?


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## Connor (Nov 4, 2017)

Looks much better! A lot more cosy for them. They molt approximately every 2 weeks until their later instars


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

Connor said:


> Looks much better! A lot more cosy for them. They molt approximately every 2 weeks until their later instars


Excellent. I overestimated their size, I thought they would be bigger. Its insane how they really are just miniature versions on the adults. Cute little guys. Cant wait to find out their sex so I can name them appropriately. What do you call your guys?


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## Connor (Nov 4, 2017)

Yeah especially miomantis... tiny little suckers. 

Heres my biggest guy

I don’t name mine, at least I haven’t came up with any.


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## Bdawg (Nov 4, 2017)

Connor said:


> Yeah especially miomantis... tiny little suckers.
> 
> Heres my biggest guyView attachment 9922
> I don’t name mine, at least I haven’t came up with any.


That's a Mio Paykullii? Pretty big, how old is it?


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## Connor (Nov 4, 2017)

No no no lol. Thats a giant African _Sphodromantis Lineola. _He is a adult, freshly molted about a week ago


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## Bdawg (Nov 5, 2017)

https://anonimage.net/image/DPzInzhJ3U

Turns out all they needed was a smaller, cosier home because first thing this morning, as soon as I picked them up, they both grabbed a fly. I witnessed both of them hunt within seconds of picking them up, I'm guessing they were like " oh , that's the guy who tries to force us to eat the flies and banana" and just grabbed a fly. They seem to be early eaters, which I suppose makes sense considering insects are usually out in the warmth.


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## Bdawg (Nov 5, 2017)

Connor said:


> No no no lol. Thats a giant African _Sphodromantis Lineola. _He is a adult, freshly molted about a week ago


That's a giant, ever had a nip from it?


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## Connor (Nov 5, 2017)

Awesome! Glad they are eating. That container should last them several molts. 

No none of my mantis have ever bitten me. Mantis only ever bite prey. But here’s a pic of him angry ?


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## Bdawg (Nov 5, 2017)

Connor said:


> Awesome! Glad they are eating. That container should last them several molts.
> 
> No none of my mantis have ever bitten me. Mantis only ever bite prey. But here’s a pic of him angry ?View attachment 9924


I was surprised when I checked them this morning, the poor guys must have felt so lost in the big jar.

Do they adopt that pose defensively? My guys do that before walking onto me,  it they usually just walk straight from the lid onto my hand. I've added some smaller flies I purchased on eBay, the larger ones that came with them weren't fully being eaten. 

When do you suggest I get the plastic cups as shown in the picture with the mesh?


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## Connor (Nov 5, 2017)

Yeah that’s a defensive pose. Younger/smaller mantis don’t use threat postures though, they use flight to escape predators.

What plastic cups?


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## Bdawg (Nov 5, 2017)

Connor said:


> Yeah that’s a defensive pose. Younger/smaller mantis don’t use threat postures though, they use flight to escape predators.
> 
> What plastic cups?


My nymphs can fly? There was a lid on the photo, is that from a plastic cup that is sued go keep mantids or the fruit fly cultures? I've seen some use those cups on YouTube.


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## Connor (Nov 5, 2017)

No sorry by flight I mean running or jumping. Although some adult males can fly.

oh yeah he is kept in a 80 oz deli cup. But I’ll be upgrading him to a net cage here soon. If you get a 32 deli cup with a cloth lid that will be able to hold your mantis for its entire life.


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## Bdawg (Nov 5, 2017)

Connor said:


> No sorry by flight I mean running or jumping. Although some adult males can fly.
> 
> oh yeah he is kept in a 80 oz deli cup. But I’ll be upgrading him to a net cage here soon. If you get a 32 deli cup with a cloth lid that will be able to hold your mantis for its entire life.


Will I save the glass terrariums I made for when they are sub adult or adult? Realistically, how far can my nymphs jump?


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## Connor (Nov 5, 2017)

Sure you can save those. Just saying that a 32 oz deli cup would work as well. 

Im sure exactly how far they can jump but they usually do not jump unless you scare them.


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## Bdawg (Nov 5, 2017)

Connor said:


> Sure you can save those. Just saying that a 32 oz deli cup would work as well.
> 
> Im sure exactly how far they can jump but they usually do not jump unless you scare them.


I try to just move slowly and keep my hands below them, and not grab it approach from above. Do you have any alternative treats for them? What other foods do they eat apart from honey and banana?


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## Connor (Nov 5, 2017)

Tbh I don’t have a lot of time to take out and hand feed treats to mine between school, work, and taking care of my 50+ mantis. I will occasionally give certain mantis a roach to switch it out. But as long as they are getting food they are happy.


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## Bdawg (Nov 5, 2017)

Connor said:


> Tbh I don’t have a lot of time to take out and hand feed treats to mine between school, work, and taking care of my 50+ mantis. I will occasionally give certain mantis a roach to switch it out. But as long as they are getting food they are happy.


That would take hours to hand feed all those guys.


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## Connor (Nov 5, 2017)

Yep. Hours I don’t have.


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## Bdawg (Nov 5, 2017)

Connor said:


> Yep. Hours I don’t have.


Are your 50 purely for hobby reasons of do you sell them too? Are they all different species of did you get an Ooth?


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## Connor (Nov 5, 2017)

Mostly hobby but I definitely plan on selling. In fact I am selling some ooths right now. I have not had a ooth hatch yet(I have 3) so I have a lot of different species. Although I will be narrowing it down based on my favorites for a second generation.


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## Bdawg (Nov 5, 2017)

Connor said:


> Mostly hobby but I definitely plan on selling. In fact I am selling some ooths right now. I have not had a ooth hatch yet(I have 3) so I have a lot of different species. Although I will be narrowing it down based on my favorites for a second generation.


Wow, you're gonna have one heck of a collection if they all hatch. Are you in the UK?


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## Connor (Nov 5, 2017)

No I’m in the OH, USA


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