# Emergency problem with fruit flies



## Lalaland (Jan 10, 2017)

So I came home today and I realized my fruit flies weren't moving in their culture! It seems as though they are all dead I don't know what happened! Please help asap


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## Sarah K (Jan 11, 2017)

Lalaland said:


> So I came home today and I realized my fruit flies weren't moving in their culture! It seems as though they are all dead I don't know what happened! Please help asap


Tell us the conditions in which you were keeping the fruit flies, how old the culture is, etc., so we can try to help you figure out what happened. 

In the meantime, you will have to order more. Or you could take a trip to a Petco or Petsmart, and they might have some you can pick up there as well.


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## Lalaland (Jan 11, 2017)

I plan on going to petsmart I think he will be able to eat small crickets or worms. They were just in my room which is at around 77 degrees I wasn't aware if I needed to do anything like most them or what not


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## Lalaland (Jan 11, 2017)

Sarah K said:


> Tell us the conditions in which you were keeping the fruit flies, how old the culture is, etc., so we can try to help you figure out what happened.
> 
> In the meantime, you will have to order more. Or you could take a trip to a Petco or Petsmart, and they might have some you can pick up there as well.


@Sarah K


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## izbiggs (Jan 11, 2017)

All fruit fly cultures crash, which means that all of the flies seem to drop at once! This usually takes a couple of weeks, since that is the lifespan of the flies, but it also depends on if there were mites, mold, or if it dried out. I'm guessing what happened is that the usual crash occurred, which doesn't make you a bad fruit fly keeper! It's totally normal for all of them to seemingly drop at once. It'll take a little while for new flies to come back, so I would suggest getting a new culture in the meantime.

Good luck!


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## Lalaland (Jan 11, 2017)

I just bought some small fly larvae in a culture tube. I also bought 4 small crickets  for him (Ik don't feed them crickets frequently)


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## Lalaland (Jan 11, 2017)

Oh sweet I'm sorry I didn't see your comment. So they will come back in the same culture? How long will it take ? I bought some new ones plus 4 crickets too keep his hunger at bay how do I keep those alive ? 



izbiggs said:


> All fruit fly cultures crash, which means that all of the flies seem to drop at once! This usually takes a couple of weeks, since that is the lifespan of the flies, but it also depends on if there were mites, mold, or if it dried out. I'm guessing what happened is that the usual crash occurred, which doesn't make you a bad fruit fly keeper! It's totally normal for all of them to seemingly drop at once. It'll take a little while for new flies to come back, so I would suggest getting a new culture in the meantime.
> 
> Good luck!


@izbiggs


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## izbiggs (Jan 11, 2017)

If you have larvae, they'll take a couple days to pupate and then to hatch into fruit flies. If the situation calls for it, you can even feed the mantis the larvae! I've never kept crickets personally, but I hear that potatoes are good for crickets because it feeds them and gives them water! Also, tiny mealworms are available at Petco, which can also be good feeders with low maintenance. Let me know how it works out! I wish the best for your mantis


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## cwebster (Jan 12, 2017)

You can mailorder fruit flies and pinhead crickets. When you get your flies make sure to start new cultures every few weeks so you have an endless supply.


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## CosbyArt (Jan 12, 2017)

Lalaland said:


> Oh sweet I'm sorry I didn't see your comment. So they will come back in the same culture? How long will it take ? I bought some new ones plus 4 crickets too keep his hunger at bay how do I keep those alive ?
> 
> @izbiggs


Once a FF culture crashes it is done, it will not repopulate.

So I'm glad to hear you got more FF as they tend to live 3-4 weeks in a single culture. The trick is to take out at least 25 FF (more flies is always better) and start a new culture see Orin's guide here. How often to start new cultures depends on your need for them (which most of us do weekly).

For crickets just give them a container they can not escape from, a place to hide (empty piece of egg crate or cardboard tube (paper towel or toilet paper tubes)), and food and water (many use potatoes as it is simple solution to food and water (carrots are said by several to cause problems to mantids that eat the crickets)). Unless you are culturing the crickets, then chicken waterers (jar and base) and ground cat food (or a mix) are the best.

Crickets can be kept in cooler temperatures, 60s F, to make them keep their size/life longer (as the cooler temps keep them from molting as quick) - but room temperature is fine. Otherwise, for breeding warmer temps of 80-85F work great, and the eggs hatch much quicker too.

Personally I feed my larger crickets and have for years without incident, with maybe one death I can contribute to crickets but even that is doubtful.


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## Lalaland (Jan 12, 2017)

Okay sounds good I think that I will feed crickets only after this culture I got is done it really sucks that the flies don't live long it's going to be hard for me to keep them :/ if you have any other suggestions for sustainable food I would love to hear it my mom is getting worried that I won't feed him properly or I will run out of food which is making me worry too



CosbyArt said:


> Once a FF culture crashes it is done, it will not repopulate.
> 
> So I'm glad to hear you got more FF as they tend to live 3-4 weeks in a single culture. The trick is to take out at least 25 FF (more flies is always better) and start a new culture see Orin's guide here. How often to start new cultures depends on your need for them (which most of us do weekly).
> 
> ...


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## CosbyArt (Jan 12, 2017)

Lalaland said:


> Okay sounds good I think that I will feed crickets only after this culture I got is done it really sucks that the flies don't live long it's going to be hard for me to keep them :/ if you have any other suggestions for sustainable food I would love to hear it my mom is getting worried that I won't feed him properly or I will run out of food which is making me worry too


Other sustainable feeders that can be cultured are crickets of course, cockroaches, wax worms (which grow into molts), mealworms, and black solider flies are the more common varieties for mantids. In warm months I personally just capture wild feeders (houseflies, bottle flies, moths, even field crickets, and such) with simple traps or my sweep nets.


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## Lalaland (Jan 12, 2017)

I too will be catching wild feeders in the summer since I do it for fun anyway lol I use my hands I have mastered the art of catching grasshoppers and crickets and an assortment of tons of things. Can I feed them small grasshoppers? Thank you for all of the help.



CosbyArt said:


> Other sustainable feeders that can be cultured are crickets of course, cockroaches, wax worms (which grow into molts), mealworms, and black solider flies are the more common varieties for mantids. In warm months I personally just capture wild feeders (houseflies, bottle flies, moths, even field crickets, and such) with simple traps or my sweep nets.


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## Teamonger (Jan 12, 2017)

I've been working on breeding and culturing all the various feeders for a few months now. So this is my two cents as a beginner to another beginner.

Mealworms - easy as pie to keep and breed. Oat meal and some potatoes (or mine LOVE cauliflower) and minimal life cycle sorting and you can quickly have more worms then you will ever know what to do with.

Fruit Flies - Just as easy as meal worms but a bit more upkeep. Basic culture medium (there is a massive sticky thread on all of the recipes) is dirt cheap and easy to make. Honestly moving flies from one culture to the next to keep them going is the hardest part. This doubles in difficulty as soon as you are breeding the wild flying variety.

Crickets - these have been the hardest in my opinion and they take forever. You have to have some manner of heating pad or light if you want the eggs to hatch. I have not had a single egg hatch at room temp. Also keeping the laying dirt moist is a bit of a hassle. I tend to wet my laying trays twice a day. I also have a separate container to hatch the eggs in so I can keep the sizes sorted. I accidentally fried my first batch of babies by leaving the heating light on too long after they hatched. The second hatch are doing well but they are growing much slower then I expected. In the end my personal opinion on crickets is they are not worth the hassle if you can just buy them.

Black Solider Flies - Still working on this one but the phoenix worms to get it started are a bit pricey and the adults only live about 8 days or so. There is also a good amount of set up to get a proper container for them to live and breed in.

Roaches - These are illegal in Canada so I can't speak to these. 

Wax Worms - Seem similar to the BSF in setup and care but also perhaps less finicky. I will likely try these some day.


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## Sarah K (Jan 12, 2017)

Teamonger said:


> Fruit Flies - Just as easy as meal worms but a bit more upkeep. Basic culture medium (there is a massive sticky thread on all of the recipes) is dirt cheap and easy to make. Honestly moving flies from one culture to the next to keep them going is the hardest part. This doubles in difficulty as soon as you are breeding the wild flying variety.


The best way to move fruit flies from one location to another is by stunning them into stillness right before moving them to a new location. To do this, you can actually put your entire fruit fly culture into the freezer for 2-3 minutes. This is not long enough to kill them, but _just_ long enough to give you a short window of a few moments (usually less than a minute) where they will not be able to move very quickly, or at all. You should transfer the fruit flies to the new culture while the fruit flies are still groggy from the short stint in the freezer. This works during feeding time as well.


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## Teamonger (Jan 12, 2017)

@Sarah K

I have had so much trouble flash freezing my flies that I just gave up on it all together. 50% of the time I killed the darn things no matter how much I timed it and tried to find the optimum time. Maybe I'm just bad at it! Also with a culture if you freeze them you may end up shaking just as many already dead flies as alive but chilled ones into the new culture. 

Either way frozen or not they are a pain to transport around.


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## Zeppy44 (Jan 12, 2017)

And another newbie chimes in. When I started shaking dead FF , I stunned them in dorm frig. Then shake into empty 32 oz. with net lid. Live ones walked up to top rest got trashed. Not great but worked till they got to flys and crickets.

I must admit feeding live food is not one of the areas I planned too well in advance. Learning as I go.

Must say, living in horse and beef cattle here in the Arkansas River Valley, when it gets warm the flys come out. Last 2 days with door open to bedroom porch, been getting my exercise catching snacks for the mantis.


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## Lalaland (Jan 12, 2017)

@Zeppy44 @Sarah K @Teamonger @CosbyArt

@cwebster THANK YOU I would be pretty lost with all of your specific answers. How long do the meal worms live? You all rock or should I say you all bug ...get it..because we are "bug" people...not geologists....get it cuz..rock. :/


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## Zeppy44 (Jan 12, 2017)

Lalaland said:


> @Zeppy44 @Sarah K @Teamonger @CosbyArt
> 
> @cwebster THANK YOU I would be pretty lost with all of your specific answers. How long do the meal worms live? You all rock or should I say you all bug ...get it..because we are "bug" people...not geologists....get it cuz..rock. :/


Like your sense of humor.  :clap: 

Bought some meal worms just to see what they are like. And emergency food if needed. Six weeks and many are starting to pupate. Minimal care at room temperature so far.


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## Lalaland (Jan 12, 2017)

Sounds great! Haha thanks  :clap:


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## Lalaland (Jan 12, 2017)

@Zeppy44


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## Lalaland (Jan 12, 2017)

I think I will be trying mealworms they seem easier to take care of and you can keep them dormant for months!! My first fly hatched out of my culture it was very tiny and I accidentally smashed it   I fed Mr.mantis a cricket last night and he LOVED it he is not hungry today


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## cwebster (Jan 12, 2017)

In addition to fruit flies and crickets, would try catching moths. When i used to raise tree frogs from eggs to tiny hatchling tadpoles, who then morphed into tiny little frogs, i used to put a light outside and just scoop up the tiny moths. I dont know how nutritious a mantis wiuld find them but the frogs loved them. BTW you can get really tiny mealworms online for tiny mantises.


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## CosbyArt (Jan 12, 2017)

Lalaland said:


> I too will be catching wild feeders in the summer since I do it for fun anyway lol I use my hands I have mastered the art of catching grasshoppers and crickets and an assortment of tons of things. Can I feed them small grasshoppers? Thank you for all of the help.


Sure mantids like grasshoppers, katydids, and related - that is of proper size for the mantid.  Your welcome and best of luck.



Teamonger said:


> @Sarah K
> 
> I have had so much trouble flash freezing my flies that I just gave up on it all together. 50% of the time I killed the darn things no matter how much I timed it and tried to find the optimum time. Maybe I'm just bad at it! Also with a culture if you freeze them you may end up shaking just as many already dead flies as alive but chilled ones into the new culture.
> 
> Either way frozen or not they are a pain to transport around.


Yeah I do not recommend freezing/cooling flies for that reason, and I never do either. If you have the flightless variety they shake easy enough from one culture into another and is really fast/easy to do. If they are the wild/flying variety you just need a pooter type device, I make these, and it is just about as fast and easy.  



Lalaland said:


> I think I will be trying mealworms they seem easier to take care of and you can keep them dormant for months!! My first fly hatched out of my culture it was very tiny and I accidentally smashed it   I fed Mr.mantis a cricket last night and he LOVED it he is not hungry today


Mealworms are easy and once started mine took care of themselves until I got rid of them, see here for details. I never could get my mantids to eat them no matter what I tried though, and I did everything I could think of/read/and advice tried.

Waxworms are similar in ease of care, but do need some cleaning between generations, see here. The only downfall is they are so high in fat that they are like junk food and good for a treat but not the mantids primarily food; although, all my mantids love the wax moths (waxworm adults) but few would touch the waxworms themselves.

Nice to your mantis enjoyed the cricket, and likely was a feast for him.


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## MantisRCool (Jan 21, 2017)

Teamonger said:


> I've been working on breeding and culturing all the various feeders for a few months now. So this is my two cents as a beginner to another beginner.
> 
> Mealworms - easy as pie to keep and breed. Oat meal and some potatoes (or mine LOVE cauliflower) and minimal life cycle sorting and you can quickly have more worms then you will ever know what to do with.
> 
> ...


Wow roaches are illegal in Canada? That sucks, I don't know what I would do without roaches lol


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## Teamonger (Jan 21, 2017)

MantisRCool said:


> Wow roaches are illegal in Canada? That sucks, I don't know what I would do without roaches lol


They sure are, heavy fines if you are caught with them I hear from some of my reptile having friends. As much as it sucks it makes sense. We don't have cockroaches natively here so far as I know (I've never seen one in my life) so importing them seems fool hearty as just a few escaping can cause all sorts of problems.


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## CosbyArt (Jan 22, 2017)

Teamonger said:


> They sure are, heavy fines if you are caught with them I hear from some of my reptile having friends. As much as it sucks it makes sense. We don't have cockroaches natively here so far as I know (I've never seen one in my life) so importing them seems fool hearty as just a few escaping can cause all sorts of problems.


Amazing to hear that, I guess it goes to show the climate isn't fit for natives for sure. Just don't tell me wife you don't have cockroaches, as she hates them with a passion and might want to move.


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## Teamonger (Jan 22, 2017)

CosbyArt said:


> Amazing to hear that, I guess it goes to show the climate isn't fit for natives for sure. Just don't tell me wife you don't have cockroaches, as she hates them with a passion and might want to move.


Hehe, Don't dare tell her that Iceland has nearly no insects to speak of then   No biting insects, no ants, no cockroaches, not a lot of anything.

To be fair we do have cockroaches here but they are introduced as far as I know. They are definitely not a common site regardless. I know there are some near the harbor in the city as I believe they came in on ships and all that.


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## MantisRCool (Jan 22, 2017)

Teamonger said:


> They sure are, heavy fines if you are caught with them I hear from some of my reptile having friends. As much as it sucks it makes sense. We don't have cockroaches natively here so far as I know (I've never seen one in my life) so importing them seems fool hearty as just a few escaping can cause all sorts of problems.


We don't have native roaches here either (well maybe some, I'm not sure), but they would die off in winter anyways if anyone would let them out like all the other insects that like warm weather. Plus our government doesn't give a dang lol.


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## Lalaland (Jan 23, 2017)

i could just catch the roaches i find in the locker room at school..... yeah that's a thing.. fun fact i once put a roach on a girl I did not like .... no one appreciated my creativity for that one but hey if you want to get back at someone just put bugs on them you can't be fined or suspended especially if you found them at your school ....


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## CosbyArt (Jan 23, 2017)

Teamonger said:


> Hehe, Don't dare tell her that Iceland has nearly no insects to speak of then   No biting insects, no ants, no cockroaches, not a lot of anything.
> 
> To be fair we do have cockroaches here but they are introduced as far as I know. They are definitely not a common site regardless. I know there are some near the harbor in the city as I believe they came in on ships and all that.


I won't, I think I would be lost with such little insect life.  

Yes cities are cities I guess no matter where you are - too much available for a roach not to infest eventually one way or another.



Lalaland said:


> i could just catch the roaches i find in the locker room at school.....


I would highly advise against that as they have been feeding on waste and material indoors that would be passed on to any mantid (likely including bacteria) and most likely would be toxic. See here for some details..



> Cockroaches are omnivorous scavengers and will consume any organic food source available to them. Although they prefer sweets, meats and starches, they are also known to consume other items such as hair, books and decaying matter. Cockroaches eat what is available to them: cockroaches that inhabit sewers feed on sewage, while species living on dead trees consume decaying wood.


If you find the wood cockroaches (Parcoblatta sp.) outdoors that would be a safer bet; however, if they eat treated lumber, plywood (glue resins), or other material they would be a potential risk as well. Personally I would just avoid "wild" roaches as they all have too much risk, which is kind of funny as I'll feed my pets almost any wild caught prey.


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## Lalaland (Jan 24, 2017)

I probably should have stated I was joking as dirty socks and whatever else is in my trash hole of a school is not good nutrition plus poison for the roaches it was merely a joke rest assured I'm not that dumb @CosbyArt


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## CosbyArt (Jan 24, 2017)

Lalaland said:


> I probably should have stated I was joking as dirty socks and whatever else is in my trash hole of a school is not good nutrition plus poison for the roaches it was merely a joke rest assured I'm not that dumb @CosbyArt


Okay, glad to hear you aren't considering them as feeders. I've read others ask similar questions, due to a lack of options or ease of capture. Either way I would not think of it as being dumb; however, just not informed of the potential dangers.


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## Zeppy44 (Jan 24, 2017)

Lalaland said:


> I probably should have stated I was joking as dirty socks and whatever else is in my trash hole of a school is not good nutrition plus poison for the roaches it was merely a joke rest assured I'm not that dumb @CosbyArt


 :lol:  At first I wanted to warm you fast.  Then I just started laughing at the image of you late for class repeatedly cause of insect hunting in the halls.   :clap:  By the time I stopped laughing I figured you were too organized and passionate about your mantis to do that to them.    So big thank you for the fun.


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## Lalaland (Jan 24, 2017)

Hahaha I'm glad you had some fun with it. My Spanish teacher the most strict teacher I have let me search her room for fifteen minutes looking for a huge wolf spider that was on her desk and they all know I'm into bugs (tiny school) yes I have put too much work into Mr Mantis and I love him too much too be that careless. I'm glad my jokes made someone laugh! @Zeppy44


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## Lalaland (Jan 24, 2017)

Imagine it I have too many tardies so the principal talks to me and it goes a little like this..

him- why are you so late all the time

me- funny story I'm cheap and I am a single mother too a mantis and he eats live food soooo I catch bugs at the school during passing period for him ...think of it as an extra curricular ... call me if you need to actually take care of the bugs I can use it as an excuse for more mantids..

him- *speechless*

well it's clear that I am 1. A dork and 2. Not a writer


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## Zeppy44 (Jan 25, 2017)

:clap:           Maybe extra credit or such?



Lalaland said:


> Imagine it I have too many tardies so the principal talks to me and it goes a little like this..
> 
> him- why are you so late all the time
> 
> ...


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