# Assistance with Brunneria Borealis



## CollinR (Oct 18, 2017)

Hello! I have an L8 Brunneria Borealis (Brunner's Mantis) called Noelle That I have had since she was L1. I am running into some trouble because throughout most of her life I have been able to feed her fruit flies and moths that I've caught outside. This has been her diet for most of her young life. Now that it's getting colder, it's getting much more difficult to catch moths. I've been able to adapt all of my other Mantids to this by feeding them Dubia Roaches. Noelle unfortunately, refuses to eat any of them, I will try to dangle them as if they're flying but she will flash a threat pose or run away from it. I've tried to place her and a roach on level ground so maybe she could see it moving and catch it, but she really never looks down due to her shape. I've debated finding some waxworms to raise into moths but I don't know how long it will take or how successful it would be. She's lived from L5 to present on a tall grass plant inside the house and never steps foot off of it. She gets water mists daily and everything else about her is perfectly fine. I just need to figure out a way to get her to eat during the Winter months. Heat is no issue because our house is always warm enough to keep most L6+ Mantids (Rainforest, Asian, Ghost, Venosa, Rhombodera) out on individual plants. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. Noelle has always been the pickiest eater in my Mantis family. Fruit Flies really wouldn't work because she's almost 5 inches long and has outgrown them. The only feasible idea I can think of would be to place her in a terrarium and release a few Blue Bottle Flies for her to catch and remove her after. However, I would like to reach out to the experts to see if there is a better option.


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## Kermit (Oct 18, 2017)

Order house flies or blue bottle flies, mail order. Check Spyder Farm online

I have two big healthy adults and that's all that they eat, and a lot of!


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## Ocelotbren (Oct 20, 2017)

Yeah, flies would be the best choice I think.  You can still hand feed them although it could be risky (as in you have a fly in your house) if they do get away.  But if you put them in the freezer for a few minutes, then it's easy to grab one with tweezers and hold it up in front of her while it wiggles to get her attention.  If she disregards roaches wiggling in front of her though, this may not work still, or maybe you just have to keep trying until she figures it out.  Or you could set up a feeding enclosure as you mentioned, or possibly even create some kind of mesh cover for the plant that you put over for feeding time?  Not sure if that's feasible, but it could depend on the plant.

Also have you tried opening a roach and holding the gooey piece up to her mouth?  Again, not sure if it would work, but I do hear of a lot of people doing that with meal worms and things like that to convince their mantid to eat the worm.

One last, possibly farfetched, idea; could you use the thumbtack feeding method to impale a roach on a thumbtack that is somehow secured to the plant so that it can't get away, is off the ground level and hopefully attracts her attention?  I've used this method with crickets for a mantis that mismolted before and it took her a few tries to actually catch it while she got used to her limbs, but the benefit is that the prey never escapes and just sits there wiggling and enticing.

Hopefully you can figure something out!


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## Kermit (Oct 20, 2017)

I agree with Ocelotbren... Those are all great ideas.

I think the easiest solution is to put your Brunneria in a Net cage or a small aquarium as you mentioned. Just for feeding. This way you can release blue bottle flies (Try 3 or 4 at first) and leave for the day. If it doesn't eat anything you likely have other issues. But I think this provides quality food in a confined space that is time efficient too.

If it eats the 3-4 BB's then put more in until she fills up. My adults will eat 10 or more 2-3 times a week and they are strong, heathy and magnificent creatures!?

Good luck!

https://postimg.org/image/9m4wgd4dx/


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## CollinR (Oct 22, 2017)

I really appreciate everyone's responses! I'll try that. I have some BB Eggs and I've been able to get away with feeding her moths because we're still getting them at our lights at night despite the colder temps. So she's been eating full sized moths just about every night thankfully. Just about all of my other Mantids (Devils,  Flashes, Megarea, and Lined Nymphs) are eating FFs and the L5+ Mantids (Rainforest, Rhombodera, Ghost, Giant Asians) are eating Dubias. Surprisingly I've successfully been getting my L3 Venosas to eat small Dubias which fills them up much faster and may help them get used to catching larger prey at an early age (I noticed when I would feed the older Nymphs FFs they would be unprepared for a Moth or Dubia because they are a little stronger of a feeder). Thankfully they learn to quickly adjust and acclimate to that. I'll try those experiments with Noelle and see if she bites (literally). Thank you everyone!


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## Ocelotbren (Oct 22, 2017)

Let us know how it goes!


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## CollinR (Oct 25, 2017)

Kermit said:


> I agree with Ocelotbren... Those are all great ideas.
> 
> I think the easiest solution is to put your Brunneria in a Net cage or a small aquarium as you mentioned. Just for feeding. This way you can release blue bottle flies (Try 3 or 4 at first) and leave for the day. If it doesn't eat anything you likely have other issues. But I think this provides quality food in a confined space that is time efficient too.
> 
> ...


I love that picture by the way! She’s a beautiful girl. Makes me want to show Noelle now. Have to say I have a soft spot for the Brunner. Such an amazing mantis and the fact that they’re a native US species makes them even more extraordinary.


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## Kermit (Oct 25, 2017)

Check these!

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## Kermit (Oct 25, 2017)

http://


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## Connor (Oct 25, 2017)

Wow @Kermit they are such a beautiful species! I cannot wait for my ooth to hatch... these guys take forever!


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## Kermit (Oct 25, 2017)

My adults just laid 2 more ooths!  If anyone is interested PM me.

@Connor looks like you will need to do a slight dispose. Being in So Cal I have to do this as well, but look up monthly temperature highs and lows for anywhere around Alabama to North Florida on Google and plan to match those temps however you can. My hatches this year were all in early March (checked my records) so plan to phase out the diapause with that in mind. Without the diapause you will have individuals hatch one or 2 at a time.

I love taking these guys out to handle. A very under represented species with such cool characteristics!?


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## Connor (Oct 25, 2017)

@Kermit Alright sweet! Thanks for the info. Will have to try and match the temps. Probably just going to put them near a window during the winter.


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## CollinR (Oct 31, 2017)

Hey everyone! It was a success! Now that it's getting below freezing in the evening hours I've been placing wingless BBs on her grass plant in the house directly in front of her and she's been catching them in seconds. Thank you all! I think now that she'll have a good source of food for November-February!


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## Connor (Oct 31, 2017)

Nice! Glad she’s eating and doing good!


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## CollinR (Oct 31, 2017)

Here she is on her giant grass plant. She’s lived on this since she was about L4. I kept her in a terrarium from 1-4.


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## Connor (Oct 31, 2017)

Oh wow isn’t she gorgeous! I love the antenna of this species. Absolutely amazing.


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## CollinR (Oct 31, 2017)

Connor said:


> Oh wow isn’t she gorgeous! I love the antenna of this species. Absolutely amazing.


Thanks! They always reminded me of feathers. A bit like the Male Idolo antennae.


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## Connor (Oct 31, 2017)

Yeah. 



CollinR said:


> Male Idolo antennae.


Exactly


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