# giant asian: grandis or membranacea?



## idolomantis (Dec 5, 2007)

hi,

we al know and the most of you have the giant asian. bud...there is also a giand indian who is who?

hierodula membranacea: giant asian/giant indian...

hierodula grandis : giant asian/giant indian...

so who is who...? i,m a little confused now :wacko:


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## Rick (Dec 6, 2007)

indian:hierodula grandis

asian:hierodula grandis

or at least that's how I understand it.


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## idolomantis (Dec 6, 2007)

Rick said:


> indian:hierodula grandisasian:hierodula grandis
> 
> or at least that's how I understand it.


bud how about h membranacea?


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## Pelle (Dec 6, 2007)

What about Hierodula membranacea is Hierodula membranacea and Hierodula grandis is Hierodula grandis.

Common names are confusing and irritating.


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## idolomantis (Dec 6, 2007)

Pelle said:


> What about Hierodula membranacea is Hierodula membranacea and Hierodula grandis is Hierodula grandis.Common names are confusing and irritating.


yes i know bud look.. if somone sel giant indian i think then its grandis then i buy, and then its membranacea bud then i tought i buysome grandis... you understand?


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## Christian (Dec 6, 2007)

Not to say that the _H. grandis_ which are in stock probably are _H. membranacea_... :blink:


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## Rob Byatt (Dec 7, 2007)

Christian said:


> Not to say that the _H. grandis_ which are in stock probably are _H. membranacea_... :blink:


True words. I've never seen _H. grandis_ in the UK, even though it is being sold as such.


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## macro junkie (Dec 7, 2007)

graham is the only known breeder i know of with the real grandis..iv been told every breder thats selling them arnt the real deal.Graham is the only mantis breeder in the uk that has permision to go to other countries and bring mantids back with him.Like the Hierodula solomonis..Just 1 of many mantids which only he has..there amazing things..he has alot of stuff.,


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## Rick (Dec 7, 2007)

idolomantis said:


> bud how about h membranacea?


oops!

indian: h. grandis

asian: h. mem


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## idolomantis (Dec 7, 2007)

Rick said:


> oops! indian: h. grandis
> 
> asian: h. mem


thanks rick

how long can h.grandis be?


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## Rob Byatt (Dec 8, 2007)

macro junkie said:


> graham is the only known breeder i know of with the real grandis..iv been told every breder thats selling them arnt the real deal.Graham is the only mantis breeder in the uk that has permision to go to other countries and bring mantids back with him.Like the Hierodula solomonis..Just 1 of many mantids which only he has..there amazing things..he has alot of stuff.,


It has not been identified as _H. grandis_, trust me  I believe it is _H. membranacea_, but until specimens have been sent to someone with more experience of this genus, then neither I nor Graham can be sure.


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## idolomantis (Dec 8, 2007)

Rob Byatt said:


> It has not been identified as _H. grandis_, trust me  I believe it is _H. membranacea_, but until specimens have been sent to someone with more experience of this genus, then neither I nor Graham can be sure.


i become a little confused now... :wacko:


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## tier (Dec 8, 2007)

Hi

First I want to say: It is nearly sure that there are no H. grandis in Germany. H. grandis is not the same as H. membranacea, but there are some areas in India where you can find both species.

Well, I used to keep a Hierodula species that was sold as grandis. It was sold to me on the worlds biggest terraristic-show, the "terraristika" in Hamm, Germany. I used a key to Indian Hierodula species and I confirmed that it is not grandis. Even if it is not one of the lot of Indian Hierodula species but one of the other Hierodula species not living in India (there are hundreds, by the way), I can say that the common "grandis" in germany are no grandis.

I cannot say for sure that it is membranacea or even the newly described keralensis sp. nov. because I don't know that this is an Indian Hierodula actually because we cannot trace back and observe if they are from India actually originally. Probable all german "grandis" are membranacea.

Best regards,

tier

PS: Ok, we have no H.salomonis over here, too. In fact there is a little possibility that there are "real" grandis in the United Kingdom


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## idolomantis (Dec 8, 2007)

tier said:


> HiFirst I want to say: It is nearly sure that there are no H. grandis in Germany. H. grandis is not the same as H. membranacea, but there are some areas in India where you can find both species.
> 
> Well, I used to keep a Hierodula species that was sold as grandis. It was sold to me on the worlds biggest terraristic-show, the "terraristika" in Hamm, Germany. I used a key to Indian Hierodula species and I confirmed that it is not grandis. Even if it is not one of the lot of Indian Hierodula species but one of the other Hierodula species not living in India (there are hundreds, by the way), I can say that the common "grandis" in germany are no grandis.
> 
> ...


so in culture grandis=membranacea? are you saying that?... bud what about h. salomonis macro junkiesays he have them


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## tier (Dec 8, 2007)

Yes, In Germany the so called H."grandis" seem to be H.membranacea, but scientifically grandis and membranacea are two different, very similar species.


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## idolomantis (Dec 8, 2007)

tier said:


> Yes, In Germany the so called H."grandis" seem to be H.membranacea, but scientifically grandis and membranacea are two different, very similar species.


okay i understand now...bud h salomonis you said that there not existed in culture bud m. junkie seems to have, or did you say they where rare in culture, or do i go crazy now..


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## tier (Dec 8, 2007)

We do not have H. salomonis over here in Germany, I don't know anything about H. salomonis 

Maybe there are real grandis in the UK, but I don't know


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## idolomantis (Dec 8, 2007)

tier said:


> We do not have H. salomonis over here in Germany, I don't know anything about H. salomonis Maybe there are real grandis in the UK, but I don't know


ok thanks bud i go crazy i gonna sleep now


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## Rob Byatt (Dec 9, 2007)

tier said:


> We do not have H. salomonis over here in Germany, I don't know anything about H. salomonis Maybe there are real grandis in the UK, but I don't know


I'm 99% sure that it does not exist in the UK. I don't know every person that keeps mantids here so that acounts for the 1%  However, I do know all the top breeders here and I have not seen any _Heirodula_ that show characteristics of _H. grandis_.


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## randyardvark (Dec 9, 2007)

basicly dude, people like to stick names on things so they sell better, h.grandis and h.mems look to the naked eye stupidly similar so (rather annoying) people just pic one of the names at random. i have mated so called h.grandis with h.mems to give viable offspring, and as one was deffinately a h.mem the other must of been as well (hybrids will not produce fertile offspring)

so 9 times out of 10 a h.grandis sold in the uk...and it seems germany will actually be a h.mem that has been named incorrectly....  

and thats what mr byatt taught me many years ago ;D


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## nympho (Dec 9, 2007)

randyardvark said:


> basicly dude, people like to stick names on things so they sell better, h.grandis and h.mems look to the naked eye stupidly similar so (rather annoying) people just pic one of the names at random. i have mated so called h.grandis with h.mems to give viable offspring, and as one was deffinately a h.mem the other must of been as well (hybrids will not produce fertile offspring) so 9 times out of 10 a h.grandis sold in the uk...and it seems germany will actually be a h.mem that has been named incorrectly....
> 
> and thats what mr byatt taught me many years ago ;D


some experts define two similar races as being distinct species if they are geographically seperated, say by mountains or river, and will not likely cross in the wild. this could be the case with these two mantids. or they have minor physical differences that the expert thinks warrants seperate species status. but they may indeed be able to produce fertile offspring (and be practically the same species by this important definition). surely there are just two many similar species to test each ones viablity with crossing experiments


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## Rob Byatt (Dec 9, 2007)

nympho said:


> some experts define two similar races as being distinct species if they are geographically seperated, say by mountains or river, and will not likely cross in the wild. this could be the case with these two mantids. or they have minor physical differences that the expert thinks warrants seperate species status. but they may indeed be able to produce fertile offspring (and be practically the same species by this important definition). surely there are just two many similar species to test each ones viablity with crossing experiments


Almost, but that would make it a sub species


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## macro junkie (Dec 9, 2007)

well tbh i dont care if its grandis or the other one..as long as i get a male and female fomr the same ooth i dont care..what gets confusing is when u have a so called grandis thats adult female and trying to find a mate is inposiball cause u dont know whats going on..is it grandis is it the other one..same with flwoer mantis..very confusing..Oh the Hierodula solomonis..what an amazing mantid.im going to take some new pics today il post them up later..the way its legs are like hollow sticks and the shade of pink its a cool mantid.


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## idolomantis (Dec 9, 2007)

lol mj you dont care what it are as long as they mate, lay ooths, hatch out, and grow up  mines seems to be a little hungry soo i go feed them(again, and again, and again etc)


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## macro junkie (Dec 9, 2007)

idolomantis said:


> lol mj you dont care what it are as long as they mate, lay ooths, hatch out, and grow up  mines seems to be a little hungry soo i go feed them(again, and again, and again etc)


yer mine to..L5 they eat untill they look like there going to pop :lol:


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## idolomantis (Dec 9, 2007)

macro junkie said:


> yer mine to..L5 they eat untill they look like there going to pop :lol:


yea i know if they can talk they will calling 4 food the whole day :lol:


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## nympho (Dec 9, 2007)

Rob Byatt said:


> Almost, but that would make it a sub species


sub species or race. means the same thing -_-


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## Christian (Dec 10, 2007)

_H. grandis_ is rather different from _H. membranacea_. But the "grandis" and _membranacea_ stuff that is in culture are all the same.


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