# More mating problems.



## pizzuti (Aug 28, 2007)

I have two European mantids and cannot get them to mate. I am certain that they are of the same species because they both have eye-spots under their forearms. The male is brown and the female is green.

The female has been an adult since the end of July, and is now extremely fat and probably very near to laying her first ooth. The male has been an adult since I caught him during the first week of August, and probably before.

The first time I tried to mate the couple, the male approached the female, but instead of mounting her, he lunged at the grashopper she was eating and started eating it too. I assumed he was still sexually immature so put him away to try again.

The second time I tried to mate the couple, the male approached slowly but the female kept turning towards him so I decided it was too risky and decided to try again when I had more food for her.

I tried to mate the pair other times, but every time I took them out of their cages the male became so agitated that he would fly towards the window and pay no attention to the female. If he ever did lock on to her, I would leave the room for a while and return to find him wandering off in another direction.

As the female got fatter, she became less interested in food, and when eating, would drop food if you tapped the cage or annoyed her. I assume it is probably because her body is delicate when it is so full of eggs and she is trying to protect herself.

Now the female refuses to eat at all, just like a mantid would before moulting, and I assume it is because she is about to lay eggs. Her abdomen is clearly extremely full and probably would not be able to hold more food or wouldn't be able to handle the struggle of catching prey. But she is still a very strong climber and hisses defensively when touched, her eyes are healthy and she has no black spots, so I know she is not sick. Since she had no interest in food, I decided she probably wouldn't eat the male, so I decided to put the male directly into her cage.

I watched him stand directly behind her for about an hour, staring at her from time to time but also turning to look around the room, then to clean his feet or antennae. He seems to have absolutely no interest in mating with her, though he is still very energetic and fast-moving so is clearly not sick.

I'm not sure what the problem might be; any suggestions?


----------



## hibiscusmile (Aug 28, 2007)

http://mantidforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7112

Did you try the suggestions in Ricks post? :wink:


----------



## pizzuti (Aug 28, 2007)

Yeah, and when I was a kid I bred my mantids in that exact same way. I don't know why it's not working this time.


----------



## pizzuti (Aug 29, 2007)

Just to update, it finally worked; I just put the female into the male's cage, quit worrying about whether she would eat him or not, threw my hands in the air and let it happen. It seems that he needed to see her from the side rather than from behind to recognize her as a mate. Also, I put the cage in a window so there was lots of light. He stared at her for a couple minutes, and while I looked away I heard a wooshing sound and looked back to find him on her back.

He survived, too. When they were done with the five-hour session, he was sitting right in front of her and she wasn't moving for him at all. He was STARVING though, and ate a couple moths and a cricket immediately after mating.


----------



## Rob Byatt (Aug 29, 2007)

> J I just put the female into the male's cage


This is why it worked. So many people are under the impression that it is best to put the male in with the female.

I've said it so many times before that it is suffice to remind people that mantids are 'sit and wait predators'; it just requires some common sense to realize why it should be done this way :wink:


----------

