# Hatching during shipment...grrrr



## yen_saw

After the Arizona unicorn ooth incident, i received another parcel of oothecae, guess what happened (yeah make a wild guess :roll: ), it hatched during shipment!! USPS must have the best incubating condition for them to hatch ha! :lol: 

This time it is the _idolomantis diabolica_...bummer  







Here are just few of the casualties, from the dismembered and headless body, it shows that nymphs must have hatched out some days ago and cannibalism took place as well.






Here are the ooth that hatched






I immediately threw in bunch of D. hydei, but the large ff looks so small for them so house flies were used. The hatchling are very thirsty and hungry that they gobbled up the house flies. Not many species of hatchling able to handle house fly, this is definately one species that has no problem!


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## Ian

Ahh no! I had this happen to me when I got my first Idolo ooths from Tanz, which was such a bugger. Well at least you still have some live guys left.

Were these wild caught or captive bred ooths?


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## ismart

Wow :shock: i cant believe there big enough to eat house flys at L1 thats very impressive. I'm glad not all of them perished through transit. Best of luck with your new nymphs.


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## yen_saw

These are wild collected i presumed, traded the ooth from UK. There might be other people out there successfully breeding this species but the only person i knew is Sascha who has a record of captive bred ootheca hatching. Unfortunately his ootheca didn't hatch out for me but he is going to send me more so i will have new bloodline. Currently i have about 50-60 nymphs and another three oothecae (finger crossed all nymphs survive and all the ooth hatch) to work with.

Thanks Ismart i need all your luck :wink:


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## Morpheus uk

Had to be idolos an all :roll:

Good luck with ya next ones, think about 90 hatch?


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## OGIGA

They must be large nymphs! I think I would have been hungry by then too.


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## hibiscusmile

Hey Yen, if you can get them to feed and water them for you too, then all you have to do is address boxes and they can just ship them to their new homes! I would of cried  . Make sure you address mine first, cause you know I want them babies!


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## yen_saw

about 80 hatched, one has about 50 and the other 30. Bummer they hatched during transit, otherwise i would have greater number of breeding stock to work with.

Yes Ogiga the hatchling of this species is huge, and even has visible lobe at first instar.

WOw that would almost guarantee live arrival isn't it Rebecca :wink: I don't mind the "extra" work at all :lol: The hatchling are still weak, i hope to nurse them back into good health again before sending any away. Not going to keep them all myself i promise!


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## joossa

I wish you the best of luck rearing this species, Yen. Hopefully you will do to them what you did for Orchids here in the US. :wink:


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## robo mantis

YEAH YEN breed millions then everyone will have them


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## yen_saw

Can't guarantee but promise to do my best


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## robo mantis

you will do fine!


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## Asa

Must've cost a lot...


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## Christian

Hi.

In fact, L1 _Idolomantis_ even may handle _Lucilia_ flies.

There are only 4 persons (including myself) breeding this species from the beginning (first imports some years ago) without adding new blood. My stock changed meanwhile from a one-year to a half-year cycle. The species isn't really simple, so I doubt it will spread like _Hymenopus_. Over here, everyone got it and tried to breed it, but after 2 years, the same 4 persons rested which really breed _Idolomantis_. Until now, there were 4 stocks known: one from Mwanza, one from Moshi, one from Musoma and one from Malindi. The Malindi and Moshi stocks are extinct in culture, the Musoma one of Sascha is new. He bred it for one generation and was not really successful, so he gave it away to someone else. It would be interesting to know how long it will persist. Only the Mwanza stock persisted from the beginning. The ooths traded by Yen would maybe represent a new stock, if breeding is succesful. The reason why it is important to differentiate between stocks is that they turned out to be partially incompatible and may require different climatic conditions. Without knowing the origin every import is rather risky.

Regards,

Christian


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## Andrew

Whoa. You've still got quite a few nymphs though, so I'm sure you'll have good luck with them.

Christian - Very interesting bit of information there...


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## Asa

> Hi.In fact, L1 _Idolomantis_ even may handle _Lucilia_ flies.
> 
> There are only 4 persons (including myself) breeding this species from the beginning (first imports some years ago) without adding new blood. My stock changed meanwhile from a one-year to a half-year cycle. The species isn't really simple, so I doubt it will spread like _Hymenopus_. Over here, everyone got it and tried to breed it, but after 2 years, the same 4 persons rested which really breed _Idolomantis_. Until now, there were 4 stocks known: one from Mwanza, one from Moshi, one from Musoma and one from Malindi. The Malindi and Moshi stocks are extinct in culture, the Musoma one of Sascha is new. He bred it for one generation and was not really successful, so he gave it away to someone else. It would be interesting to know how long it will persist. Only the Mwanza stock persisted from the beginning. The ooths traded by Yen would maybe represent a new stock, if breeding is succesful. The reason why it is important to differentiate between stocks is that they turned out to be partially incompatible and may require different climatic conditions. Without knowing the origin every import is rather risky.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Christian


Maybe I should try breeding them..


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## Sparky

wow those ooths are big


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## swoosh

Big ooths and big nymphs too.


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## yen_saw

> Must've cost a lot...


Nope... it was traded for other species, no money (in liquid form) involved.



> Whoa. You've still got quite a few nymphs though, so I'm sure you'll have good luck with them.


Thanks, i'll be happy if half of them survive to adulthood, majority of them were in no good shape when i got them yesterday. I am surprise they survived in a small container going through a rought trip without food and water.

Update: i have another 2-3 casualties, but the rest are doing well after gobbled up some juicy honey/pollen coated flies.


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## robo mantis

WOOOOHOOOOO GO YEN :lol:


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## swoosh

I wonder if all the ooths are pack in that way or is it only for Idolomantis?

Thanks


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## athicks

That is an amazing size right out of the egg case. Incredible.


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## yen_saw

> I wonder if all the ooths are pack in that way or is it only for Idolomantis?Thanks


All the ooth can be packed that way, as long as the "seam" is facing downward. Luckily the ooth were not wrap, or it could've been worst :shock:



> That is an amazing size right out of the egg case. Incredible.


Yeah they are huge!! Here are couple of first instar pics.


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## MikhailsDinos

Wonderful, Yen!  I'm glad to see this species with you, Now I know that with a little bit of Yen "magic" those babies will grow to be adult &amp; breed for you. Now heres the real question, Do you have any of that "Magic" for sale


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## Ian

Excellent photos Yen  

The nymphs really are huge aren't they...in fact I don't think I have come across larger nymphs.

Keep up the good work.


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## robo mantis

I LOVE THIS my favorite species is now here in america.


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## yen_saw

Thanks guys. I will offer some after 1st moult. There is no magic Mikhails, there is a great deal of effort to finally land this species here (trust me i went through a lot of craps to get this species so it is not like i am a lucky chap) and it will be the same effort to rear them into adulthood.


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## buddhistsoldier88

Yen, how sure are you these are L1's? Big enough to eat hose flies?! Thas huge fo L1's! any chance they re L2s?


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## yen_saw

Yes they are buddhistsoldier88  i will try to take a pic of these compare to the adult male _Odontomantis Planiceps_. They last time i had this species at L4 they have no problem with blue bottle.


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## buddhistsoldier88

> Yes they are buddhistsoldier88  i will try to take a pic of these compare to the adult male _Odontomantis Planiceps_. They last time i had this species at L4 they have no problem with blue bottle.


Oh, just asking, but whats the word on the ooth? I CANT WAIT!! :shock:


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## Sparky

Aw yours look cooler than mine. The one I have doesn't have orange markings.


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## Precious

The glass is half-full Yen! Maybe the oothecae should be shipped with some fly pupae?!  Please keep us posted with lots of pics!


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## Juergen

Good luck!

I`ve made good experiences with:

- Temperature about 30°C at day and 19-20°C at night

- The humidity can be low at day, but during night you should raise by spraying some water in the evening. Spray every day, but no shower...

- They need a good ventilation

- No more than 7 of the L1 in a box of 20x20x20 cm... and no more than 5 of the L3 in such a box... and for L5 instars these boxes quit... Then you need somewhat with a height of more than 50 cm.

- They don`t like thick branches, but they are crazy about thin ones...

- no heating mat, use spotlights

greetings,

Juergen


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## Sparky

guess i should get thiner branches


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## yen_saw

Here is how the hatchling of idolomantis compare to a subadult spiny flower mantis.






This species has huge appetite!!


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## robo mantis

Gosh! Let us know when they molt!


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## joossa

Nice! Don’t let them get too close to each other… :wink:

Keep us posted on their progress.


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## francisco

HEllo All,

Yen, great news!!! Congrats on the little devils.

You should have no problem raising them, in fact you can keep the together until L3 or older, feeding every day.

My first 2 L3 WC (2005?)from Tanzania, were keep in separated container, with peatmoss as substrate, a small branch inside a 32 oz cup with mesh lid.

I keep them at about 80 during the day and 70-75 during the night.

I would spray every night only, very lightly.

Big appetites, not too fond of crickets, since they are very clumpsy, they don't go down to hunt too much. They love house flies and moths or a cricket if you hand feed them.

They were two males so I could not do anything with them.

My second attemp in 2006, was from a WC ooth that came from Stephan grobe, it hatched about 100 nymphs, I was able to raise some and gave away the rest to other people.

Unfortunatelly I could not kept them going.

So I know Yen will be the man to keep I diabolicum going for some time.

regards

Ftorres


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## yen_saw

Thanks GUys.

FT, I am keeping them at high temp. right now at 95F during the day and 75F during the night. They seems to do fine and i only have one casualty during moulting (not dead yet, still being rescued). I only mist them after switching off the heat lamp at night. Here are some crappy pics taken recently. Lets hope luck is on my side here as i was told this batch from Arusha, Tanzania has yet to breed well in captivity.


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## OGIGA

I like their pink color.


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## robo mantis

I like them buti missed out on buying  I will never get this species


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## Sparky

oh my gosh! How did you get the pink tint? Mine just came out plain white with a little but of brown.


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## Morpheus uk

They should all have some hint of pink? everyone ive seen has


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## yen_saw

I see moulting again into third instar :shock: It was just 3 or 4 days ago when they shed into 2nd instar. Guess they are happy with the condition! With this rate, i hope to see some adults before Christmas  

Anyone getting the idolomantis from me, please note that they will also moult into third instar soon.


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## yen_saw

Couple pics of 3rd instar idolomantis, they are thriving and i am a happy man


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## robo mantis

I need some nymphs so mate that as soon as possible!


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## yen_saw

5 weeks come and go, here they are at fifth instar. Have seen threat post a few times, it is quite a sight even at this stage. Wish i know where i placed my camera sometimes.











This one decided to moult into L5. So far all of them are moulting alright, which is a great relief for me.


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## robo mantis

Get them to adult in 2 months haha you do it with all species! I still think you are giving your mantids steroids


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## Mantida

robo mantis said:


> Get them to adult in 2 months haha you do it with all species! I still think you are giving your mantids steroids


Hehe Yen's mantids are beasts.


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## yen_saw

Thanks! my guess is they will turn adult by Christmas, or even before that. But with the colder weather setting in, i am not sure if that is possible. Probably need another heat lamp. But for now, they are "ballooning" with frequent moult. the foot cube net cage is getting too small for all of them. My other batch from Germany will hopefully mature into adult end of next month.

Steroids?!





well yeah the "steroids" are probably just the extra food and heat, i am not planning to produce another Marion Jones


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## robo mantis

HAHAHAHA nice yen!


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## yen_saw

Moved all the idolomantis to a larger net cage, they have grown into L6, but seems to slow down on moulting now.


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## Mantis_Whisper

I'm so jealous Yen, your mantises grow so fast. &lt;_&lt; 

But are they a communal sp.? My sister and I want a couple and we haven't been able to find alot about them.

Lovely pictures though.


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## yen_saw

Thanks Andrea.

They appear to be communal species for now with constant supply of blue bottle flies. No cannibalism so far, touch wood


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## Mantis_Whisper

yen_saw said:


> Thanks Andrea.They appear to be communal species for now with constant supply of blue bottle flies. No cannibalism so far, touch wood


Welcome Yen.  

Thanks. I'll have to keep some bluebottles handy when I get them then. Oh, how hard would you say it is to care for them?

Sorry for the random questions but they are such a beautiful sp.


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## robo mantis

They are one of the hardest. The molting seems to be a problem for them.


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## robo mantis

SORRY DOUBLE POST!


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## Mantis_Whisper

robo mantis said:


> They are one of the hardest. The molting seems to be a problem for them.


I knew they were pretty hard to care for, but how hard?

Do you have to be on hand and foot for these guys or just give them a lot more care then any other sp.? I want to makes sure I know before I go and get that I can take care of it. :mellow: 

I can see how the molting might be a problem.


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## yen_saw

Mantis_Whisper said:


> Welcome Yen.  Thanks. I'll have to keep some bluebottles handy when I get them then. Oh, how hard would you say it is to care for them?
> 
> Sorry for the random questions but they are such a beautiful sp.


If you can provide heat between the range of 90-100F during day time and plenty of flies, they will do alright. Also, they walk very akwardly on the ground so they definately prefer branches (not leaves) to hang on to. I expect to see some casualties especialy the last moult, and i wouldn't call myself success in this species until they manage to breed for another generation. But so far except for the first moult - where there was only one mismoult case which survive after second moult - the subsequent molts are perfect  yay!!. Anyway, i suspect breeding to be more of a challenge as compare to caring. Wish me luck!


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## trojon

How do you gutload the flies?

Heard something about honey coating, but this seems as though the flies are sprayed or rolled in honey before feeding, as opposed to letting the flies eat the honey first?!


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## yen_saw

Just feed the flies with honey liquid for gutload. pollen/honey powder coating on the flies is done right before feeding the mantis.


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## Mantida

Hey Yen - how are the Idols? I really hope you can rear them to adults because I want one badly.


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## yen_saw

THey are doing fine thanks. I hope to breed them too. Hope to see adult on this batch by the end of this year, providing winter didn't get too cold here in Texas B)


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## Mantida

yen_saw said:


> THey are doing fine thanks. I hope to breed them too. Hope to see adult on this batch by the end of this year, providing winter didn't get too cold here in Texas B)


Yup! And if it stays pretty warm here then shipping 'em around won't be too much of a hassle.  

How long do Idols usually live? Are they like ghosts and live their adult life for a year-ish?


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## yen_saw

mantida said:


> Yup! And if it stays pretty warm here then shipping 'em around won't be too much of a hassle.  How long do Idols usually live? Are they like ghosts and live their adult life for a year-ish?


Sorry didn't see your reply. Yep lets hope it is warm here in Texas, Houston rarely stays below freezing point for more than 1 day.

Not sure how long Idolomantis can live, my guess is about 4-8 months.

Two months had gone, a quater of the batch that hatched out during shipment have blossomed into subadult. They are doing great and on schedule for adult before Christmas as expected. Here is a pic of subadult male (notice the extra thick antenna and six spikes on abdomen)


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## robo mantis

I Think you are going to do really good with this species


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## Mantida

robo mantis said:


> I Think you are going to do really good with this species


Of course he is! He's the great Yen after all. :lol:


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## yen_saw

robo mantis said:


> I Think you are going to do really good with this species





mantida said:


> Of course he is! He's the great Yen after all. :lol:


Thanks, is too early to say i am afraid. Just enjoy the process of seeing them grow right now. I am hoping there is no detrimental effect from growing this batch too quickly. The batch from Germany was way ahead (5th to 6th instar) when this batch moulted into L2, but now they are almost at the same stage. ANyway, i am keeping them pretty hot at 90-95F, and let it cool down to slightly lower than 70F at night which is no problem at all as winter is fast approaching.


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## joossa

Can't wait to see them as adults. Keep up the good work, Yen. Oh, and sorry about your loss (the female).


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## trojon

Quick question Yen!

You know that tent thing you had your son stand in, what does it normally retail as? I was thinking of getting a couple for my room and couldn't find them anywhere?!

But I'm looking for it here in uk as an indoor tent lol!


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## yen_saw

Hi Trojon, the tent where my son is in cost about $75. It stands around 6 feet tall (not my 11-year-old son). Macro junkie asked the same question a week ago and i gave him the link as follow

http://www.livemonarch.com/store_enclosures.php

You can find all the dimensions there. I love their net cage, works wonderfully. I would have gone for the green house if it was available. Christopher is the owner of that site but i am not sure if he shipped aborad. Rebecca (Hibiscusmile) carries their product too, you ship abroad right Becky?

BY the way. took a shot at molting idolomantis, looks like it has great grips on thin branches eventhough they size seems too big for the tiny legs to hang on. But the one that moult on screen net only sees one last leg hanging on the net, dangerously close to losing all grips. Both moulted into subadult stage.


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## robo mantis

Thats good you will have many adults


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## yen_saw

I hope so Robo, i hope so


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## yen_saw

they have gone ahead of schedule!! I was expecting the first adult around Christmas but after just about 95 days (3 months and few days), i have my first adult idolomantis yay!  
















In fact, I have two of them molted out alright  











Moulting appear to take place yesterday night, this batch seems to prefer molting at night, so a night and day cycle is required. The net cage with sticks attached to the roof seems to work very well so far for molting, but my guess is proper temperature and food play a more important role for their success molting. NOw i hope the next female will molt in less than a month. finger cross.


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## joossa

Very nice. Good job!!!


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## Kruszakus

Is it true, that stressing them can lead to their demise? I do not know if holding a mantis on your hand can kill it... not unless you clutch it like a stone...


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## yen_saw

Thanks joosa, is lot of work bringing them up to adult in the past three months but is all worth it when you see a healthy adult  

Kruszakus, idolomantis does seem to get panic easily when handled but i haven't killl any of them from handling yet (hope never), they don't seem to like handling at all and always want to crawl out of my hand, which is why i can never get a good pic of them on my hand. So not that it will kill them but i would recommend not to handle them if possible.


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## macro junkie

omg they have wings..iv never seen them with wings how cool.


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## yen_saw

Yeah MJ, both are adult male with pretty wings


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## macro junkie

yen_saw said:


> Yeah MJ, both are adult male with pretty wings


these are by far the best mantid ever..


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## Rob Byatt

Great news Yen, but you need to cool those males down next week or the females will never be ready


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## Juergen

yen_saw said:


> they have gone ahead of schedule!! I was expecting the first adult around Christmas but after just about 95 days (3 months and few days), i have my first adult idolomantis yay!


Hello Yen,

good work - that I call fast... How are the females?

Best regards,

Juergen


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## hibiscusmile

Nice Job Yen! Mine are down to two. A lot of money for them and I don't know if the last will make it. It is crippled on one side and I have to Hand feed it, I should be a bug nurse. I spend a lot of time hand feeding them :lol: . I just had my miomantis that was crippled die, she live a long time and had 3 ooths, the last one killed her though. Then I have a budwing that is total cripple, I feed her every day, when I went in this morning she is able to move her head and clean her two front claws, she looked at me when I said " morning baby" and asked her if she wanted her breakfast early" ha ha, she nodded yes so I cut a big fat superworm in half and gave it to her. It must of filled her up cause she did not take other half. But to get back to the idol, (I digress) ha ha... it is able to hang and scoot along things, and can hold it's fly once I get it to notice I am feeding it, it fights me all the way. But I usually get two b b flys down it and then put it up. so i dont knowif it will make it to next molt! But on the bright side, the last one is fine!


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## hibiscusmile

:blink: 



yen_saw said:


> Hi Trojon, the tent where my son is in cost about $75. It stands around 6 feet tall (not my 11-year-old son). Macro junkie asked the same question a week ago and i gave him the link as followhttp://www.livemonarch.com/store_enclosures.php
> 
> You can find all the dimensions there. I love their net cage, works wonderfully. I would have gone for the green house if it was available. Christopher is the owner of that site but i am not sure if he shipped aborad. Rebecca (Hibiscusmile) carries their product too, you ship abroad right Becky?
> 
> BY the way. took a shot at molting idolomantis, looks like it has great grips on thin branches eventhough they size seems too big for the tiny legs to hang on. But the one that moult on screen net only sees one last leg hanging on the net, dangerously close to losing all grips. Both moulted into subadult stage.


I totatly missed this post Yen, sorry, and I just shipped some to the uk a week or so ago.


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## Christian

"Cooling down" or starving the males doesn't work properly in this species. If the conditions are not optimal, they can die in a blink of an eye.

Keep them as usual and feed them well, then they live about 3-4 months.


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## Rob Byatt

Christian said:


> "Cooling down" or starving the males doesn't work properly in this species. If the conditions are not optimal, they can die in a blink of an eye.Keep them as usual and feed them well, then they live about 3-4 months.


Come to think of it I didn't cool mine down once adult, but I did when they were subadult


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## yen_saw

Thanks all. I have another 4 molted into adult recently with 2 mismoult  . Apparently both moulted out alright, but as it turns around to get it wing expand the male lost the grips and fall, so i have this male with all the legs and shield well formed but a mess up wing, what a bummer!!  i have to send them to freezer but will take a few pics of them before doing so. On the positive note, there are 4 healthy looking adult male. All females are at subadult stage for at least 2-3 weeks now. I have a male bias gourp here so i still have plenty of male in subadult stage. But only have 10 females out of this group. I am hoping the subadult females traded from Germany (different bloodline) to mature soon, they have been in subadult stage for 1.5 month now!! :angry:


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## hibiscusmile

So if the wings are bad does it mean he's a gonner,cannot he live with bad wings? or do u just delete him so as not to use poor blood line? :blink: just wondering.


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## yen_saw

The second reason Hibiscusmile.... i will show a pic of the mismolted male when i have the chance. It is a shame cos everything else was alright except for the wing. I wouldn't throw it away if i only have one, but since i have some fine adult male and more subadult male left there're plenty of backup. Or i can get a male from you too Becky  I remember sending a pre-subadult female to Reggie as he has 5 male from me (talk about odd!) and i have a male bias group too as mentioned earlier.


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## hibiscusmile

haH! You better hurry, I am having hard time keeping em alive.


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## Kruszakus

Why hard?


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## yen_saw

hibiscusmile said:


> haH! You better hurry, I am having hard time keeping em alive.


Aww that's not good  lets hope the rest will survive.

This is my first mismoult adult male











This is another mosmoult male











They are getting weak as well so it will be freezer time soon


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## macro junkie

hahahah look at its furry anteners..how cool is that..yen..is that dead?


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## yen_saw

MJ, all adult male of empuside species appear to have feathery antenna which is pretty cool.

No he is still kicking and screaming (well not really  ) when picked, but don't think he can live for too long


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## yen_saw

Hopefully the movie clip works......









Hey i think it works  

I was too late to take some subadult male out so you might be able to see few adult male in the cage too..... is too crowded i know  need to do something about it this weekend.


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## robo mantis

Let us know on adults


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## sk8erkho

Wow!! Such a wonderfl species, Yen. But, if anyone can pull this off you can. they are in good hands. I know you'd only freezer em if you really had to. How much longer would he live form the date of the post. I know i'm a bit late!!! :mellow:


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## macro junkie

hahahhahah 1 was boxing the light bulb..im so glad i got 2 of these  your set up is great..hahah all them flys..im wondering what u do when u have to open the tent..lol..do u wait till all the flys are eaten?


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## yen_saw

sk8erkho said:


> Wow!! Such a wonderfl species, Yen. But, if anyone can pull this off you can. they are in good hands. I know you'd only freezer em if you really had to. How much longer would he live form the date of the post. I know i'm a bit late!!! :mellow:


Thanks Khori. I hope the male can survive for at least another 2-3 months, my females are showing signs of maturing with swelling budwing so hope to get some adult pairs soon.



macro junkie said:


> hahahhahah 1 was boxing the light bulb..im so glad i got 2 of these  your set up is great..hahah all them flys..im wondering what u do when u have to open the tent..lol..do u wait till all the flys are eaten?


Thanks MJ, i need some free roaming mantis to handle the escape flies


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## Morpheus uk

Have they coloured up yet?


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## macro junkie

Morpheus uk - how big are yours now?pics please


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## yen_saw

Actually i have female matured into adult couple of days ago, which is only just 12 days since the first adult male matured, so cooling down the male is not necessary at all. Infact, i still have few subadult male left, but most other male has matured into adult. The color on wings (adult male) has shown up Morpheus, it is beautiful  I didn't measure the size MJ, wouldn't want my room filled up with all the flies  However, i did take a short movie clip when two of my adult female just moulted out right, and for that i had at least 20 flies escaped


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## macro junkie

hehehehe u make me laugh..so,do u send your son on a flying catching mission?


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## idolomantis

macro junkie said:


> hehehehe u make me laugh..so,do u send your son on a flying catching mission?


haha thats mission impossible.... believe me...


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## Matthewtinnion

This reminds me of my troubles with the flys, I have a ninja cat who takes care of a few but its left up to me and the chop stick (mr Miagi style) for the rest, oh and any off the recent Giant asian escapees living on the ceiling.

Oh and btw if your gonna breed crickets and some one tells you that you dont need a lid for the container, aslong as they cant jump out... dont listen to them, they are very capable of flying at adult, hance me flat/cat being full of them.  

Im not sure if this is too big, sorry...


----------



## idolomantis

Matthewtinnion said:


> This reminds me of my troubles with the flys, I have a ninja cat who takes care of a few but its left up to me and the chop stick (mr Miagi style) for the rest, oh and any off the recent Giant asian escapees living on the ceiling.Oh and btw if your gonna breed crickets and some one tells you that you dont need a lid for the container, aslong as they cant jump out... dont listen to them, they are very capable of flying at adult, hance me flat/cat being full of them.
> 
> Im not sure if this is too big, sorry...


wow your cat looks exactly the same as mine!


----------



## acerbity

Now it's a full blown cat off!


----------



## LadyBug

ah riki the cricket/fly muncher! he doesn't really eat the big crickets tho, just disables them.

:lol: love the cat in the tie! :lol:


----------



## macro junkie

cool cats


----------



## idolomantis

we better can start a new topic: our cats


----------



## acerbity

I'll see your two cats and raise you my cat in a lion costume:






This topic has been derailed!


----------



## yen_saw

Oh boy!! lots of cute "meow" here :lol: that's probably what i need too to get rid of all escape flies, but in the process i might lose all my mantis too  i have a stick mantis stepped and chewed to death by a friend's cat, i think cat has an instinct to pounce on any moving object smaller than itself.

Just an update, i have more adult pairs now and still keeping them together, mismoulting on the last moult is still an issue, i have 30-40% that couldn't make it or with messed up wings but the rest are doing alright, still have some subadult left and still keeping them together, no cannibalism witness. I'm checking them few times a day and hopefully there is mating in near future.


----------



## robo mantis

Sounds like it! You are having a lot of luck with them!!!


----------



## joossa

Can't wait to read about them once they mate.  

Good job!


----------



## Morpheus uk

Wheres the coloured up pics? :mellow:


----------



## yen_saw

Sorry Morpheus i haven't had a chance to take the pic on them recently, mainly don't wanna disturb them and try not to let my already bugs infested room fill up with more flies  But honestly, they appear to be very clumpsy walking on any other surface except for stick so don't wanna mess up their legs.


----------



## drizzt




----------



## macro junkie

drizzt said:


> ]


we should start up a thread called cats cause where ruining yens thread..

bro,..your cat is identical to mine.is it lazy like mine and talks alot?


----------



## yen_saw

No problem, although i am sure cat and idolomantis don't get along together, i don't mind the cat stays on this thread B)


----------



## yen_saw

One of the adult female appear releasing pheromone(sp?) and as i appraoch the cage i saw a male moving close to that particular female and did a strange thing, he started to flip his wings next to the female, and while doing that another male sneak in and climb up to the female. I was trying to take a pic from out side the net and it looks bad, can anyone see?







So i decided to get into the cage for better shot. The pair is way inside the cage and the male is just next to the pair.











Zoom in on the pair






and i think my appearance must have disturbed them, they separate soon after i took the pic...damn, and i have dozens of flies in the room, again  I better leave them alone next time when this happen &lt;_&lt;


----------



## acerbity

That last one was quite a unique pic, worth the flies IMO


----------



## Mantida

The classic Idolomantis look in your photo kind of excites me.

Congratulations Yen, another rearing success. Only challenge left is the mating and ootheca fertility, you are the KING of the mantids!


----------



## yen_saw

Thanks for the kind word, it is still long way from successful breeding but finger crossed..... if anything can go wrong this is the one species!!


----------



## macro junkie

do they get there coulour when they turn adult?


----------



## ABbuggin

When they first molt into adults, they are tan. But after a while (not sure how long) they get their gorgeous color :wub:


----------



## tier

> another rearing success.


unfortuanetly not yet. My males climbed each female 10-20 times, sometimes up to some hours. But no mating

:-(

Are them mating on the pic, or is the male just sitting on the females' back?

Yes, they become green-white 5-15 days after the last molt. First they have dirty-white wings, but than the green appears.

Best whishes and best luck Yen, you are doing great with them!!!


----------



## yen_saw

macro junkie said:


> do they get there coulour when they turn adult?


It took about 2-7 days to have a fully developed wing color for my idolo colony. I see brown and green so far, male being slightly darker in color.



tier said:


> unfortuanetly not yet. My males climbed each female 10-20 times, sometimes up to some hours. But no mating :-(
> 
> Are them mating on the pic, or is the male just sitting on the females' back?
> 
> Yes, they become green-white 5-15 days after the last molt. First they have dirty-white wings, but than the green appears.
> 
> Best whishes and best luck Yen, you are doing great with them!!!


Thanks tier, i need plenty of luck from now on. I guess raising hatchling into adult is considered a successful rearing. But breeding is another story, even when a female is mated but fail to produce viable ootheca i would still rate it as unsuccessful breeding.

That male step away from the female moment after i took the pic so he was just doing a "test-drive" :lol:


----------



## tier

> I guess raising hatchling into adult is considered a successful rearing.


Oh yes, this is right. I missunderstood the word, sorry  

:lol: regards


----------



## Juergen

My Idolos start mating, but something is strange this time... :blink: 

Best regards,

Juergen


----------



## tier

Hi Jürgen.

Nice little picture. Seems like you are bringing east Africa and east Asia together 

But Jürgen, big mistake: It's two females!!! But of course you know it ;-)

Grüsse,

Stefan


----------



## Mantida

Juergen said:


> My Idolos start mating, but something is strange this time... :blink: Best regards,
> 
> Juergen


 :lol: ! That picture made me laugh!

You currently have metallyticus sp? Wow, never ever seen one in captivity before.


----------



## Borya

Yen, can you take a photo of Idolomantis sitting near the ruler?


----------



## yen_saw

Juergen said:


> My Idolos start mating, but something is strange this time... :blink: Best regards,
> 
> Juergen


Interesting pic Juergen  one can only dream of the offspring from this crossbreed  



Borya said:


> Yen, can you take a photo of Idolomantis sitting near the ruler?


This is probably the last time i am going to handle my adult idolomantis as i would rather leaving them in the cage alone, but here you go Borya (both adult female)











The female is about 11-13 cm, male is slightly shorter and less bulky. One day i will need you to help me catching all the loose flies  

In just a month (or even less) after turning adult, one of the female deposited an ooth on the stick, as i have been away i have no idea if they are fertile or not.






zooming in






Looks like a normal size/shape


----------



## joossa

Wow! Both the female and the ooth are monsters!


----------



## Kruszakus

Oh my god! This mantis is huge! Tell me - how many house flies does it take to feed all of them?


----------



## yen_saw

joossa said:


> Wow! Both the female and the ooth are monsters!


Yes they are a good size, so the 32 oz insect container is not going to work for this species.



Kruszakus said:


> Oh my god! This mantis is huge! Tell me - how many house flies does it take to feed all of them?


I lost count :angry: i have to order 10k pupa every two month, most of them went to the idolomantis cage. :blink:


----------



## Kruszakus

Wow! You better pray that this species pays off, hehehe


----------



## Mantida

That is one huge ooth. :blink:


----------



## Christian

That's a good size standard. But don't get fooled, there is a lot of foamy mass around the egg case. The first ooths of this species contain up to 70 eggs, with a hatch rate in captivity of about 60-80%. In later ooths, hatch rates are about 20-35 L1.

However, the hatchlings are rather large (I have witnessed some which handled blue bottle flies!) and losses are rare, given the right conditions.


----------



## Borya

Yen, thanks a lot!

This is the first time I can define their actual size on photos  .


----------



## macro junkie

Kruszakus said:


> Oh my god! This mantis is huge! Tell me - how many house flies does it take to feed all of them?


i can answer that cause yen has loads i only have 2..i have net cage like yen..i have 2 sub adults in there.il throw in about 20 bluebottles and they eat them 1 in day.il then chuck another 20 in there the fallowing day and it takes them couple days to eat it..there eating about 40 blue bottles each per week..ish..thats a rough estimate..this spcies is amazing..wish me luck i have only 2 and im hoping they make it to adult.. *M.J prays to god*


----------



## Gurd

Congrats on your ooth Yen  

fingers crossed it is fertile


----------



## Kruszakus

Well, MJ - I'm rooting for you with all my heart! I like ambitious breeders! Especially since this mantis is just so gorgeous, what a shame that it's so hard to get ahold of it...


----------



## macro junkie

Kruszakus said:


> Well, MJ - I'm rooting for you with all my heart! I like ambitious breeders! Especially since this mantis is just so gorgeous, what a shame that it's so hard to get ahold of it...


well martin always has them but they sale out very fast..and im not to sure he wil ship..u finding it hard to get..cant u ship from germany?


----------



## yen_saw

Collected 4 oothecae so far but never had a chance to witness mating. But as i spent more time in bugroom today finally i saw a connecting pair  

I took a few pics but it was at a terrible angle and there is one nosey female trying to block me from taking a good shot :angry: 












this is from another angle.....






Notice i didn't complain about the loose flies


----------



## Andrew

Awww, and here I was hoping to open this thread and find a photo of a cup full of idolo nymphs.  But it's only a matter of time. You can be sure I'll be taking some nymphs off your hands when you sell 'em...along with everyone else here.


----------



## yen_saw

HOw i wish Andrew  can't count the chicken before the egg hatched you know


----------



## Andrew

Even if the chicken was raised on pure kryptonite cocaine and blessed by the gods themselves?


----------



## macro junkie

oh wow..the colour yen..how amazing how much its change since it shed to adult..i cant wait to see if mine do this if they shed ok to adult


----------



## Gurd

I wouldn't moan about escaped flies with that many ooths either :lol:


----------



## tier

That is so great Yen, I'm happy you're mating them  

It seems soon the life circle will be closed.



> USPS must have the best incubating condition for them to hatch ha!


Luckily you already know how to incubate the ooth  :lol: 

Best regards,

tier


----------



## Rick

Very nice Yen.


----------



## joossa

Good job Yen! So you haven't had any major problems keeping them together?


----------



## Kruszakus

What is that gooey thing on the branches and the mesh fibre?


----------



## yen_saw

Andrew said:


> Even if the chicken was raised on pure kryptonite cocaine and blessed by the gods themselves?


Ha Andrew!! :lol: the ooth is only couple of week old although i could be the king of wishful thinking!!



macro junkie said:


> oh wow..the colour yen..how amazing how much its change since it shed to adult..i cant wait to see if mine do this if they shed ok to adult


MJ, I can see different colors but i don't know how many times they had change colors. Generally it takes 2-4 days for the wings to settle down on the color. It takes a good 3-4 weeks for the last molt so be patient  



joossa said:


> Good job Yen! So you haven't had any major problems keeping them together?


Not that i know joosa, even if i don't put flies for couple of days they do alright together.



Kruszakus said:


> What is that gooey thing on the branches and the mesh fibre?


Idolomantis oothecae?


----------



## Kruszakus

Not that, I meant gooey, not spongy! :lol: 

Everything seems to be covered in some brownish stains - what is that? Flys left that? Yuck!


----------



## Borya

In *ellroy*'s 1.5 year old thread ('Idolomantis mating success UK!' , http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?sh...=3218&amp;st=0) is said, that already after the first mating male died. Is this typical for Idolomantis, or males can mate more than once ?


----------



## yen_saw

Kruszakus said:


> Not that, I meant gooey, not spongy! :lol: Everything seems to be covered in some brownish stains - what is that? Flys left that? Yuck!


So now you know how many flies were there eh


----------



## yen_saw

Have been waiting for the threat pose of this species for a very long time. Today, finally two adult male were doing it and a rare occasion where my camera is around and fully charged :lol: So without wasting the precious moment, took several pics. and also happen to capture a short clip of how the male making sound with the legs while showing threat pose. So here to share a few

1st male











2nd male






and a lousy clip from the 2nd male, apologize for the poor quality (i was dissappointed it didn't focus but you can hear the noise made while he "danced" his way trying to scare me!)


----------



## Mantida

Oh my good gosh, I finally get to see the infamous Idolomantis threat pose in action! That dance is funky!  

How do they make that clicking noise? Rubbing appendages together? I don't see any rubbing though. :huh: Anyway, nice captures Yen!!


----------



## Christian

Hm, I think that's for me: well, they rub the forewings against the hind femur. The ridge along the forewing possesses on the underside a row of sharp teeth while the femur has 4 ridges along his axis of which the caudal one (that is the ridge which is in contact with the wing in the threat pose) is somewhat strengthened. The femoral ridge rubs along the teeth on the wing and produces the noise. You can simulate it by rubbing your fingernail against the ridge of a wing. By the way, all Empusids have teeth along their forewings and some other species, too. They do not show the threat pose often, though. The noise isn't as loud in any other species as it is in _Idolomantis_, due to the fact that the teeth on the wings are rather large in this species.

When I first saw and heard the threat pose 3 years ago, a childhood dream was fullfilled at last.


----------



## Kruszakus

Wow! Now I know why people hanker after this mantis.

I hope that this species is something you will stick to, having you rearing it makes many people feel somewhat more comfortable - good to know that having success with it is possible with a little bit of tender care.

Man, this is pretty shocking to hear that a mantis is producing sounds is this way, man - that male seemed to had a really hissy attitude.


----------



## macro junkie

this species is great..and i cant wait to see mine at adult..so yen,,do they do threat poses more when there adult?iv seen them do it now and then in the cage but when i take them out i cant get them to do it..mine are sub adult.and pre sub adult.


----------



## macro junkie

was the noise coming from the wings rubbing against the new cage or was it her making the noise?


----------



## Ian

Yen, awesome to see these have come such a long way!

Fantastic work bud


----------



## idolomantis

the defense poses are awesome!!! meeeeeehhhh mines dont even have other colors then green... -.- lol


----------



## macro junkie

idolomantis said:


> the defense poses are awesome!!! meeeeeehhhh mines dont even have other colors then green... -.- lol


yep..idols rule..its a fact..  there amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Gurd

wicked pics mate  and cool vid

Well caught and thanks for sharing  

Even heard the flies making their break for freedom


----------



## yen_saw

Thanks all, glad to share it. Part of the noise was from the legs rubbing aginst the net cage too. MJ, i have seen they performed threat pose as early as first instar, although way less spectacular than the adult threat pose


----------



## hibiscusmile

:lol: Yen, I don't think it was so much of a threat pose, he was just showing you that "HE WAS THE MAN" of the house, u know, flexing his muscles :lol: to show u who's boss! Me Idol, you man


----------



## idolomantis

macro junkie said:


> yep..idols rule..its a fact..  there amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


yooooooooooohoooooooooooooo my mantidforum name rulezzz!!!!!!!! sorry.

so cool.......


----------



## Christian

> was the noise coming from the wings rubbing against the new cage or was it her making the noise?





> Part of the noise was from the legs rubbing aginst the net cage too.


 :huh: Does anyone ever read what I'm writing? If not, tell me and I will spare my time next time...


----------



## macro junkie

Christian said:


> :huh: Does anyone ever read what I'm writing? If not, tell me and I will spare my time next time...


No i didnt buddie..i went to the link yen gave me..i watched it then posted my thoughts..after i did that i then red your post..i should i red the hole thread then posted but this time i didnt..


----------



## macro junkie

Christian said:


> Hm, I think that's for me: well, they rub the forewings against the hind femur. The ridge along the forewing possesses on the underside a row of sharp teeth while the femur has 4 ridges along his axis of which the caudal one (that is the ridge which is in contact with the wing in the threat pose) is somewhat strengthened. The femoral ridge rubs along the teeth on the wing and produces the noise. You can simulate it by rubbing your fingernail against the ridge of a wing. By the way, all Empusids have teeth along their forewings and some other species, too. They do not show the threat pose often, though. The noise isn't as loud in any other species as it is in _Idolomantis_, due to the fact that the teeth on the wings are rather large in this species.When I first saw and heard the threat pose 3 years ago, a childhood dream was fullfilled at last.


iv still not gont mine on camara doing threat pose..there sub and pre sub adult,.it sucks,..


----------



## yen_saw

Christian said:


> :huh: Does anyone ever read what I'm writing? If not, tell me and I will spare my time next time...


Gez Christian, with all respect, chill out man! You don't want the thread to be deleted and you know what our moderators are capable of right  

And i did read your post, just added that besides the sound made by what you have mentioned, its legs rubbing against the net does help making the sound louder. Your response didn't go unnoticed see  thanks really!

Also, the males as usual get agitated easily when you move you face towards them in quick motion. Yeah, that will piss many mantis too


----------



## Christian

They don't rub the legs against the net, as all legs usually rest on the surface. It's the body that is moved by flexing the joints. If the tips of the wings or some other part rubs against the net, this is not intentional. The noise made by the wings is much louder than any unintentional one.


----------



## Kruszakus

Christian, your reply impressed me, and puzzeled as well - the language was clear and concise, but I didn't know if it was the appropriate metalanguage for this forum - it was just so sophisticated and I had to look up certain words in the dictionary - I can speak only for myself, as a simple farmboy, who likes bugs - I'm not a scientist :lol:


----------



## Christian

> I didn't know if it was the appropriate metalanguage for this forum


 :huh: Now come on, I'm writing in a foreign language (you, too, by the way). If someone is to understand it than all the native speekers here... :lol: 

I think "femur" should be an acceptable word for mantid guys. However, I admit that "caudal" is somewhat more difficult, I didn't find another short word for it, though. If you have a leg the femur of which being hold to the side, perpendicular from the body axis, and that femur has four ridges, you have one facing to the head ("cranial" or "craniad", depending on the parameters used), one on the upper side ("dorsal"), one on the underside ("ventral") and one facing to the rear ("caudal"). The dorsal and the ventral ridge expand to the lobes at the end of the femur. The ridge between them, actually facing upwards in a pinned specimen due to the arrangement of the legs, is in fact the "rear", say, caudal one. That ridge rubs against the wing and produces the noise.

:blink: Hm, while re-reading it I doubt it made things clearer... I propose that those guys who have this species better observe it for themselves... :lol:


----------



## yen_saw

huh? English please Christian  Thanks for the detailed explaination. Is it about the same as how grasshopper making their sound? rubbing the ridge againts the wing? I will take a better look at the next time male "dance" for me, it is just amazing, i must have really annoyed that male. Can female make this hissing sound too just like the male? Being larger i would assume she could make even louder noise :blink:


----------



## Christian

Yes, females are even louder. This species startles rather easily. Just form a claw with your hand and try to grab them. Young adults display more often than older ones.

The noise is produced in a way resembling grasshoppers, but there are some differences. The stridulation apparatus of grasshoppers is more elaborate.


----------



## Matthewtinnion

Good reading this is, as my Male Idolos tend to staartle very easily, they threat pose when i walk in the room, if i look up form the computer, put flies in their tank, yet I have never heard them make a noise while doing it....

I will keep my ears open.

Mat.


----------



## idolomantis

LOL do you guys also realixe that this topic is the most viewed (i,m 4000,st view) and the most pages !?!


----------



## Christian

> my Male Idolos tend to staartle very easily, they threat pose when i walk in the room, if i look up form the computer, put flies in their tank, yet I have never heard them make a noise while doing it


The noise isn't produced every time, just when they are really agitated.


----------



## macro junkie

idolomantis said:


> LOL do you guys also realixe that this topic is the most viewed (i,m 4000,st view) and the most pages !?!


thats because this spcies rules..one day when u have stoped killing yours u can get some. :lol: :lol: im only winding u up.just kidding..how are your mantids by the way?


----------



## idolomantis

macro junkie said:


> thats because this spcies rules..one day when u have stoped killing yours u can get some. :lol: :lol: im only winding u up.just kidding..how are your mantids by the way?


...trade lives?!?! ther fine now well the most are in the forever hunting fields -.-


----------



## macro junkie

idolomantis said:


> ...trade lives?!?! ther fine now well the most are in the forever hunting fields -.-


what species do u have right now..and are u still going on holiday


----------



## idolomantis

macro junkie said:


> what species do u have right now..and are u still going on holiday


g asian. in the summer dohh maybe to australia


----------



## macro junkie

my subadult male


----------



## Kruszakus

Great Scott! Raprorial arms are almost as big as the mantis itself!


----------



## macro junkie

Kruszakus said:


> Great Scott! Raprorial arms are almost as big as the mantis itself!


yer there so cool..i know i keep saying it but im just hoping it sheds fine to adult..yen had about 50% loss from sub - adult so it can go either way.put it this way.il probably only have 1 shot at it..because sub adult,adults heck even nympths are impossible to get of this species..u dont want to know what i paid for a 4th instar pair.  Price is £40 for the pair inc postage..thats 80$ for a breeding pair which where L4..i got ripped off..but i have them now..and i wanted them that much i was willing to pay over the odds..i really hope all goes to plan..i would love to work with this species in the future,,i have a few big net cages spare just incase i pull it off..im a long way off yet tho so heres hoping.


----------



## Christian

The species is not always available, as there are at most 2 generations per year and so they are offered just two times a year. I offer them actually, but this doesn't help anyone here as they have to be picked up personally. I don't ship them in winter. As it is not clear how many ooths will hatch, noone who breeds this species can foresay how much surplus there will be. I have to say that one breeding pair isn't sufficient in this species.


----------



## macro junkie

Christian said:


> The species is not always available, as there are at most 2 generations per year and so they are offered just two times a year. I offer them actually, but this doesn't help anyone here as they have to be picked up personally. I don't ship them in winter. As it is not clear how many ooths will hatch, noone who breeds this species can foresay how much surplus there will be. I have to say that one breeding pair isn't sufficient in this species.


so if they both become adult and i mate them they wont be any good?


----------



## Kruszakus

macro junkie said:


> yer there so cool..i know i keep saying it but im just hoping it sheds fine to adult..yen had about 50% loss from sub - adult so it can go either way.put it this way.il probably only have 1 shot at it..because sub adult,adults heck even nympths are impossible to get of this species..u dont want to know what i paid for a 4th instar pair.  Price is £40 for the pair inc postage..thats 80$ for a breeding pair which where L4..i got ripped off..but i have them now..and i wanted them that much i was willing to pay over the odds..i really hope all goes to plan..i would love to work with this species in the future,,i have a few big net cages spare just incase i pull it off..im a long way off yet tho so heres hoping.


Yeah - being ripped off on mantids seems to be a problem, so I hope that one day I'll be able to breed this species as well. Man, some charge 80$ for Gongylus ooths, that's insane.

Back to the topic - you have a very low chance to hit the mother lode, sorry - I'm currently breeding I. lateralis and some females seem to be infertile and unable to breed, some are unapproachable, and only a couple seems to be okay. With this species this may be even harder - it's just like with P. paradoxa or H. coronatus - you might have a pair, but that does not warrant the next generation.

You just have to have a lot of them to make sure that there are willing to mate, and fertile - it's best to buy a tent, two heating lamps and a truckload of fly pupae and then purchase an ooth - with a whole batch you will be safer.


----------



## macro junkie

well u never know.i might just be lucky..


----------



## yen_saw

Christian, how many ooth can we expect from a female? It has been a while since the female produce her first ooth. My guess is probably only 5-6 ooth, unless she can live much longer. Here are the ooth being incubated.











MJ, you can do it!! i am looking forward to see your idolomantis threat pose pics  best of luck.


----------



## Christian

One pair may be sufficient, if all goes fine, but the chance that this may not be the case is rather high.

Given that all there are no losses at the adult molt, and that he is not too old when she is ready, the males are often the dumb ones in this species. Some of them are just losers, others really good copulators. In subsequent generations, you need of course more than one male. In my stock most males perform well, but if you have just a bad one, you cannot switch to another.


----------



## Christian

@Yen: yeah, about 4 to 7 ooths is a realistic assumption. Later ooths may not be fertilized anymore, though.


----------



## Matthewtinnion

Hey macro

Did you get your idolos form Martin, because I bought 4 from him at the same time as you acording to the forum, and the 2 that survived were both male and adult from 2 weeks ago.

think i payed 33 quid posted for the 4.

Mat.


----------



## Matthewtinnion

I thought ide add...

I posted my two adult males to spain from the uk, they arrived alive and well 3 days later.

Just if anyone was wondering about sending this sp around.


----------



## macro junkie

Matthewtinnion said:


> Hey macroDid you get your idolos form Martin, because I bought 4 from him at the same time as you acording to the forum, and the 2 that survived were both male and adult from 2 weeks ago.
> 
> think i payed 33 quid posted for the 4.
> 
> Mat.


no i didnt..i got them from reptile forum and paid 4x what u paid.ripped off but i have a pair so fingers crossed..i


----------



## macro junkie

ok my male is about to shed to adult..WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO check out its wing buds.


----------



## macro junkie

my male has just started sheddding to adult..i hope to be back later with good news..fingers crossed.


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## macro junkie

wooooo so far so good..every thing fine..he just has to get his abdermen out and woooo i got 1 to adult  now i need to get the female to adult...shes about 1-2 weeks behind him..oh how long do idol males last as adult in 90f?


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## Morpheus uk

WOOHOO!!!!!!!

Congrats Scott :lol: 

Bloody lucky so and so :blink: 

Cant wait for your macro pics of an adult


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## macro junkie

u never know..The mantid god might be looking over me willing this to work.  :lol: just the female to go now.  and your right i have been very lucky,So far


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## macro junkie

adult male.


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## macro junkie

i got 1 yen..its not the best but i got one none the less..  ~Your right they do threat poses alot more when they hit adult..


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## Kruszakus

Thank God for your addiction!


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## macro junkie

Kruszakus said:


> Thank God for your addiction!


If i cant breed these 2 for some reson i would love to buy an ooth from somewhere..i could really have a crack at breeding them then..hint hint yen how are your ooths doing :lol:


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## yen_saw

Way to go MJ!!  Lucky you to get a great shot of him showing threat pose. You must have sleep with your camera all the time  It took me a good month after they matured before i got that shot!  My first ooth is 4 week old (29days) so hopefully another 2 weeks to go. All the best to your idolo female.


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## macro junkie

yen_saw said:


> Way to go MJ!!  Lucky you to get a great shot of him showing threat pose. You must have sleep with your camera all the time  It took me a good month after they matured before i got that shot!  My first ooth is 4 week old (29days) so hopefully another 2 weeks to go. All the best to your idolo female.


good luck with your 1st ooth hatching..


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## yen_saw

Well for those managed to join in the chatting group with me couple of weeks ago knew my first hatch was a disaster, many nymphs stuck on the ooth and only two managed to squeeze it out of the shed alivve  











Today finally I have a better "living" hatching rate, although only about 20 nymphs, i feel like i can really retire now  











Thanks for following this long and sometimes out of topic thread (wrong topic to begin with). Best of luck to other idolomantis breeders in this forum. If i can do it, you can too!!


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## macro junkie

well 20 per ooth just sucks big time..the size of the ooth and only 20 nymphs..i can see why there so much money now..still waiting for my female to shed..any day now..im worried that the male will die before shes ready..only time Will tell..thanks for posting all this great info..its been a great thread..


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## Christian

20 larvae is really not much. My last ooth had 55, the one before 76. On the other hand, not every female got paired. This species remains a tricky one.


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## macro junkie

Christian said:


> 20 larvae is really not much. My last ooth had 55, the one before 76. On the other hand, not every female got paired. This species remains a tricky one.


yer..i need alot of luck to pull this one off.


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## Andrew

Congrats on the hatch. Hopefully the other ooths will do better.


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## Malnra

I cant think of the last time I saw and idolo ooth for sale .. maybe i just dont google well enough ;- )

Once i go thru the adult giant aisan to ooth to adult to ooth I will feel more comfortable giving it a shot with another species of mantis ....

My babies are doing well from the first ooth .. the second ooth is doing ok .. the thrid has not hatched (giant asians here)

so it will be some time until i am ready to try the idolos, though if i had the chance sooner i might give it a go ...

I have the basement space picked out and have the support of my wife ;-)


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## MantidLord

To think, all of this started with an unexpected hatching during shipment. Then those survivors now have children. I know I wasn't here to "talk" with you guys during this journey,  but I sure had fun reading the thread.  I hope your pair produces a couple of fine ooths MJ.


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## MantidLord

I don't mean to double post, but yen, are your adults still alive? And aren't the adults usually dead when nymphs hatch? :huh: Just a quick question.


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## yen_saw

MantidLord said:


> I don't mean to double post, but yen, are your adults still alive? And aren't the adults usually dead when nymphs hatch? :huh: Just a quick question.


Yes some adults are still alive. Once reach adult, females are pretty hardy eventhough i didn't feed them often sometimes, and i haven't witness any cannibalism, but male starting to drop like flies for me recently. i didn't really check but i think they are down to only 3 adult male which has been alive for at least 3 months. This batch of idolomantis has been very special for me. To have had hatched during transit and proceed to survive the incredible journey, and lastly manged to molt out of last molt and eventually breed successfully is really something, and certainly a wonderful experience for me although i might not be keeping them again. I hope many more breeders manage to breed them too.

Today, the same ooth hatched another 35 nymphs?!?! :blink: i wonder if this is common. Now i feel stupid cos i actually cut open the first ooth the same day after many nymphs get stucked on the ooth and only couple survived. I did find many "unborn" nymphs inside the eggs. Oh well, never too late to learn  

Edit: Final count - 41 nymphs hatched today for a total of 61 nymphs.


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## Christian

Yeah, this is much better. Sometimes the larvae hatch in two batches. I rarely had it in the last generations, but several times in this one. I have no clue what might be responsible.


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## MantidLord

So, if yen isn't gonna breed them anymore, who else on this forum breeds them? I want the species to become successful, but I know raising this species is way out of my league. But, the female mantids would eat their own children right? (I never knew they would survive to see them hatch, so I figured it was a mute question). Anyways, good luck with your ooths yen  Oh, are any females laying any more ooths yen?


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## Mantida

Congratulations Yen!


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## yen_saw

MantidLord said:


> Oh, are any females laying any more ooths yen?


Yes i have about 5-6 adult idolomantis female still depositing oothecae almost everytime after some heavy meals. I haven't had much time checking them nowadays, believed some idolomantis female are in her 3rd ooth, and the ooth size is slightly smaller than before but with good shape.

One more ooth hatched earlytoday, so far they preferred to hatch early in the morning.







This one stays on the ooth a long time but climbed up my hand as soon as i remove the ooth


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## macro junkie

wow..this species is so cool..well done.


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## Malnra

sounds like you may end with some ooth to share ;- )

i would be interested if one became available


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## Ian

Nice work Yen! You made it the whole way  

I'd also be interested in an ooth if you have one available at any time.


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## MantidLord

So are u gonna sale those nymphs yen, or keep breeding them? For their sake, I hope u keep breeding them.


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## macro junkie

yen_saw said:


> , this batch seems to prefer molting at night, so a night and day cycle is required.


i have 2 idols shed from L4 -to adult and sub adult with the light on 24/7.,


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## macro junkie

Ian said:


> Nice work Yen! You made it the whole way  I'd also be interested in an ooth if you have one available at any time.


wouldnt we all :lol:


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## yen_saw

Ian said:


> Nice work Yen! You made it the whole way


Thanks Ian, it was quite a "journey" and am glad to be able to share it here with everyone.



MantidLord said:


> So are u gonna sale those nymphs yen, or keep breeding them? For their sake, I hope u keep breeding them.


I received many requests to keep them for another generation, but i am not sure if i have the time to do it. I have decided to let the museum here keeping some of them as they have some entomologists there with mantis breeding experiences. But i will do my part to help the rest of you as much as possible. So far they are at least 20+ people with order of idolomantis (may be more if the rest of my oothecae hatch), most have ordered 10 idolomantis each (there is one person received 50 idolomantis nymphs in single order!). So we now have a nice size of "American Idol" keepers and i would like this community to stay in touch with each other. Some of you may need either a male or female in the future so by staying in touch to each other we might be able to breed idolomantis here for another generation. I will e-mail this "American Idol" group before my trip so the current idols breeder knows where to look for help.

So i shall retire here now with this last pics of my first generation L2 groups. Enjoy!


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## MantidLord

I hope these people have the same success as you did yen, and the museum. It's been fun reading (then joining) this thead. Good Luck in the future yen!!


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## asdsdf

Wow Yen, amazing accomplishment. Too bad you have to leave....We need you. *hint *hint


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## Ghozt

Hey Yen, I still have the 2 you gave me. They are sub-adults now... B)


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