# Autocannibalism?



## PowerHobo (Nov 20, 2018)

I had a dud batch of houseflies, so it's been about 10 days since my ghosts have had a _good_ meal. They've eaten, but it's the last of my fruit fly culture, and it's not enough to really bulk them up (their abdomens still look mostly flat). They're so finicky that they will not even attempt to eat even tiny roaches yet, and while I've fed them chunks of superworm in the past, it's extremely difficult to get them to take it on a good day, and none of the 3 will this past week.

I just noticed that one of my males is missing a leg, and he definitely wasn't missing it the day before yesterday, and he hasn't molted or anything. They're all kept individually housed, so it wasn't one of his broodmates.

Will mantids autocannibalize if hungry?

I've got more houseflies due to arrive on Wednesday (with some hatched included so I have immediate feeders), but I'm still curious. I'm also a bit worried because as we all know an open wound on a mantis is never good, plus my last mantis to chew off one of its own legs (mismolt situation) ended up dead pretty quickly.


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## ohaple (Nov 20, 2018)

I haven't read of such autocannibalism in mantids. From my understanding, autocannibalism is very rare in nature since it defeats the purpose of self preservation. A mantis leg is not much sustenance to risk a major injury and lifelong (if adult) handicap. It is more likely the result of an accident. Is the ghost old? I have read that older mantises get more brittle and are more prone to such accidents. Do you leave them in with crickets? Some people have reported injuries from crickets that are left in the enclosure.

Some people suggest putting out fish or other items to attract flies overnight when food is in short supply. We have had a couple times where flies aren't hatching properly and we have had to cut up mealworms or catch wild flies. The worm trick  has worked for us as a last ditch effort. Usually the mantis sees it as a threat, but if we approach slowly we can always get it to touch their mouthparts, at which time they start munching and eventually grab onto the prey.


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 20, 2018)

Interesting topic. Mantids can autocannibalize if under a lot of stress, such as not having enough food, or a communal situation where its siblings are bothering it too much, or if it is being handled WAY too much, but that last one is not normally a factor.

- MantisGirl13


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## Prayingmantisqueen (Nov 20, 2018)

Wow. Poor thing. I hope the flies get in soon! Could you try some bannana? Thats my emergency food for mantids. Also mine ha e no trouble eating dead insects of a tooth pick and I have those in the fridge (Can O' Crickets from Zoo Med)


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## PowerHobo (Nov 21, 2018)

ohaple said:


> ... Is the ghost old? ... Do you leave them in with crickets?
> 
> Some people suggest putting out fish or other items to attract flies overnight when food is in short supply... The worm trick  has worked for us as a last ditch effort. Usually the mantis sees it as a threat, but if we approach slowly we can always get it to touch their mouthparts, at which time they start munching and eventually grab onto the prey.


L5 or L6 (can't remember at the moment). I don't feed crickets at all because they die too quickly and there's enough speculation about their safety that it's more comfortable to just do flies and dubias, plus I honestly don't think my ghosts would even take pinhead crickets. I've got some _extremely _small dubia roaches, and they won't even try to catch them. I've attempted raw fish and raw shrimp traps, and we've never caught a single fly that way. In the summer the fish or shrimp just cooks or dries out within a day (even in shallow water or apple cider vinegar, which all just evaporates... perils of being hot as heck and the driest city in the country), and right now I don't know if it's too cold or what. I've even tried skipping our scheduled back yard dog poo cleanups in hopes of attracting some, but no dice.

The mealworm trick is my normal goto for this, done exactly as you said, just creeping up on them until I can smush some goopy innards against their mouthparts, but like I said, they're all refusing that entirely this time around. It's almost like they're extra skittish due to being hungry. They would rather jump from cup to floor than let me near them with a tiny chunk of mealworm. That said there was no death-leap from the one missing a leg.



MantisGirl13 said:


> Interesting topic. Mantids can autocannibalize if under a lot of stress, such as not having enough food, or a communal situation where its siblings are bothering it too much, or if it is being handled WAY too much, but that last one is not normally a factor.


This was my thought (which was poorly articulated); not that it was autocannibalism for sustenance, but rather due to stress. Sort of like how a dog will lick itself raw/bloody with enough stress.


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## PowerHobo (Nov 21, 2018)

Prayingmantisqueen said:


> ... Could you try some bannana? Thats my emergency food﻿ for mantids. Also mine ha e no trouble eating dead insects of a tooth pick and I have those in the fridge (Can O' Crickets from Zoo Med)


I've never heard of banana for mantids, but I'm willing to give it a shot; I'm just not sure how to get them to take it.

I'm sure I could get probably any other species I'm keeping to take dead insects (they're all decent enough with mealworm chunks), but the ghosts are a special breed of jerks, lol.


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## Prayingmantisqueen (Nov 21, 2018)

PowerHobo said:


> but﻿ the ghosts are a special breed of jerks, lol.﻿﻿


Ha ha.. I feed very small amounts of banana on a tooth pick.


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## ohaple (Nov 21, 2018)

If its l5 or l6, it may be able to grow back.

I would move them to a different area of the house. I'm not saying this is the case, but maybe where you have them gets too many disruptions, too much cold air, too dry, carbon monoxide leak, or some other external factor. Move them to a bedroom or something. It may not make a difference, but probably worth a shot just to get a good baseline.

I went through a similar panic with our peacock. He wouldn't take any food for a couple weeks, even the worm trick. The only thing we could get him to take is a little honeywater. Finally we just persevered  until he took it, and he spent hours nibbling on a worm. He would do the same death jump behavior right away, so we were careful to put him in the center of the table where he was safe. He has continued to be picky, but we have been able to get him to eat flies, worm pieces, and most recently a small horned worm that filled him up well.


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 21, 2018)

The ghosts will not catch dubias on their own. Pull one apart and put the gooey white part up to the mantids' mouthparts with tweezers and they should take it from you.

- MantisGirl13


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## Mantis Lady (Nov 24, 2018)

I have seen in my mantids, they like the white goo that is in dubias. I hope when they get bigger that the bigger mantids will hunt them and eat them whole, that will feed then good. But the smaller ones get the goo on a tooth pick or a piece of dubia abdomen


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## Darth Mantis (Dec 1, 2018)

It seems like it would be unlikely he would eat himself for food because he would get much less from eating himself than he would lose by eating himself. But I have heard of Mantises eating themselves if a limb becomes damaged or infected or something like that to in order to prevent death or further damage and a broken or infected limb is a lot of times a useless limb that just cost energy with no benefit. Also I think someone also said they might do it from stress not sure why that would be but stress can also lower the immune system causing infections to occur easier.


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