# Orchid mantis enclosure



## KevinsWither (Oct 30, 2016)

I am considering orchid mantids in the near future. Any enclosures that work good for orchid mantids?


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## hibiscusmile (Oct 31, 2016)

Any container is fine as long as they have molting room and room to walk around.


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## KevinsWither (Nov 6, 2016)

Yea I heard about something with humidity or something with that particular mantis species. What makes it difficult to care for?


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## CosbyArt (Nov 7, 2016)

KevinsWither said:


> Yea I heard about something with humidity or something with that particular mantis species. What makes it difficult to care for?


Beyond the required humidity and temperatures needed, most species that are not recommended for beginners is also due to the species not being able to cope with inadequate care. Lapses in proper care will often lead to their deaths, sometimes even a single time, and similar issues a more hardy "beginners" species can withstand and show no health issues from.

For the humidity needs, a Hymenopus coronatus needs 60-80% humidity, but also requires plenty of ventilation. Typically to increase humidity less ventilation is used (or covered up) to hold in more humidity; however, as the Orchid needs plenty of ventilation it is much more difficult to provide the higher 80% humidity needed for older instar Orchids.

The care sheets recommend the 60% humidity for young instar nymphs, but as they grow more humidity is required. See the caresheet here, and another here.

Humidity is compounded currently by the fact it's nearly winter and many homes will have low room humidity percentages (RH%), due to the heat/furnaces being turned on in homes. I know once our furnace starts staying on more often my humidity here drops to 25% RH, and 15% RH in January/February.


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## KevinsWither (Nov 7, 2016)

Ah I see. Now with the orchid mantis is it possible to have coco fiber in a portion cup in the nymph's enclosure to control humidity? Anything with ventilation?


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## CosbyArt (Nov 7, 2016)

KevinsWither said:


> Ah I see. Now with the orchid mantis is it possible to have coco fiber in a portion cup in the nymph's enclosure to control humidity? Anything with ventilation?


Sure the coco fiber will help release humidity slowly. Perhaps some of the Orchid keepers will respond with their methods.

Indeed anything with a cross ventilation should be adequate, such as a mesh lid and at least one side with a mesh covered opening as well. I've read stories where they can literately fall over dead without cross ventilation, how common that is though I have no idea.

Some of the more serious keepers/breeders use net cages (or here) though, but unless you have the space and are interested in them I wouldn't worry about that.


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## KevinsWither (Nov 7, 2016)

I am interested in net cages for the adult female orchid mantids and probably for larger ones. Now anything with the part on getting the female to lay eggs or to synchronize the orchid mantis nymphs development so I can have a male and a female at almost the same time as adults? I also heard that they are picky and they prefer flying insects.


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## CosbyArt (Nov 8, 2016)

KevinsWither said:


> I am interested in net cages for the adult female orchid mantids and probably for larger ones. Now anything with the part on getting the female to lay eggs or to synchronize the orchid mantis nymphs development so I can have a male and a female at almost the same time as adults? I also heard that they are picky and they prefer flying insects.


Not sure I'd call them picky eaters, but indeed they prefer flying prey almost exclusively.  Some mantid species are active hunters, others are ambush hunters, or ground hunters, and such - so they need to be offered the prey they would naturally eat to fit their abilities/mentalities.

The easiest method to get them at breeding age together, is to buy and raise a female or two. Then when your female molts to an adult, get a male or two then for breeding. It's the best method, but if males are not available when your female(s) reach breeding age then it can be disastrous. However, as a new Orchid potential keeper, it is recommended as the methods to stagger their growth appropriately depends on your knowledge of their proper care already to adjust their care/environment accordingly and safely.

If possible another solution is to buy older instar females, and younger males, so the timing for breeding is already done. It will also avoid the whole inbreeding issue that is a problem with Orchids (Hymenopus coronatus) as they would be from different stock/parents.

If though you want to try staggering their growth as nymphs to get males and females to breeding age, it can take some work. Males have shorter lives, so you want to slow their growth - and speed up the females to match the timing.

One of the methods is to give the males less food, enough to keep them alive but not enough for them to thrive, and it will slow their growth - while feeding the female as much as she wants. Another method is to keep the female warmer to make her grow faster, and as such she will eat more too - again for the male gender, keep your male cooler on the other end of the temperature range. Most who try staggering growth will do a bit of both methods off and on as needed, and keep adjusting their care as they grow.

Staggering their growth may not even be necessary, as some species seem to do fine naturally, but if Orchids are such a species is unknown to me. Perhaps one of the Orchid keepers will respond about the species specifically.


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## KevinsWither (Nov 8, 2016)

Yea the only prey I have access to are wild moths, crickets, mealworms, and hornworms. Would those work?


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## CosbyArt (Nov 8, 2016)

KevinsWither said:


> Yea the only prey I have access to are wild moths, crickets, mealworms, and hornworms. Would those work?


The wild moths will work, assuming they are free from any pesticides or other potential dangers; however, the rest on your list not so much.

Again they prefer flying prey, and as mentioned in this care sheet crickets can be used sparingly and not as a main feeder. Most keepers though will not feed their Orchids crickets or any other crawling insect, as shown in this care sheet.

In reality your best option is to order the appropriate sized fly pupae, starting with Melanogaster fruit flies, Hydei fruit flies, stable flies, houseflies, and then bottle flies - depending on the mantids instar stage. For that Rebecca at MantisPlace carries all the fly varieties.


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## Ebichua (Nov 8, 2016)

I got my first mantids, which are orchids, a little over a week ago on Oct 30th. I'm new still so I'm still figuring things out. But at the moment, I'm keeping em in bare 32oz cups with mesh lids, I spray water in each at least once a day. Started feeding them houseflies, as soon as I got em too. 

The thing with feeding houseflies though, they rarely finish the whole thing so I rinse their container out everyday. 

I got all my containers and food from: http://www.mantisplace.com


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## KevinsWither (Nov 8, 2016)

Hmm, sounds good. Now the stable flies I searched those up and the biting part scares me.  Now any way to culture flies or moths for mantis food?


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## KevinsWither (Nov 12, 2016)

Now it to keep an orchid mantis with a live orchid plant?


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## CosbyArt (Nov 12, 2016)

KevinsWither said:


> Hmm, sounds good. Now the stable flies I searched those up and the biting part scares me.  Now any way to culture flies or moths for mantis food?


Culturing houseflies or bottle flies is a large extremely smelly mess that usually ends in failure (and not recommended), see this topic for several posts about it and those of us who tried and a video of the process too.

Culturing moths from waxworms is easy enough read my guide, but they are not meant as a main/primarily food source (too high in fat and are a treat/junk food). Other moths can be done as well but that is another hobby itself and you have to research that one yourself.



KevinsWither said:


> Now it to keep an orchid mantis with a live orchid plant?


Some keepers do for the fun of it; however, in the wild/nature they are not found on orchid plants or flowers generally but just green plant vegetation. They use their flower camouflage to attract flying insects (ie pollinating insects), and do so better being the only "flower" that the insects would be attracted to. Read more about them in nature from these articles, National Geographic, Discover Magazine, - or the original scientific research journal here and the other journal here.


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## KevinsWither (Dec 7, 2016)

Would deli containers work for baby orchid mantids? Polyfiber lids?


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## CosbyArt (Dec 7, 2016)

KevinsWither said:


> Would deli containers work for baby orchid mantids? Polyfiber lids?


Yes and yes.  Just be sure the nymph has plenty of ventilation and your be fine.


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## KevinsWither (Dec 7, 2016)

I am getting quite confused by ventilation. Does that mean like just the deli container poly fiber lid is fine or will I have to have another area with mesh in the side of the container?


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## CosbyArt (Dec 7, 2016)

KevinsWither said:


> I am getting quite confused by ventilation. Does that mean like just the deli container poly fiber lid is fine or will I have to have another area with mesh in the side of the container?


Another area of mesh, or simply small needle sized holes along a side - see a past members deli cup home for a Orchid with cross ventilation.

Regarding ventilation the Orchid species is said to be very picky on ventilation, in that it needs plenty of air flow (some have been known to fall over dead from bad ventilation). Here is one comment about Orchids from yen_saw, although there are many others if you search...


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## KevinsWither (Dec 7, 2016)

Also would orchids be able to subside on dubia roaches or banana roaches? Any decor in the enclosure? Is room temperature fine for orchids? Springtails and pill bugs in the enclosure?


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## CosbyArt (Dec 8, 2016)

KevinsWither said:


> Also would orchids be able to subside on dubia roaches or banana roaches? Any decor in the enclosure? Is room temperature fine for orchids? Springtails and pill bugs in the enclosure?


Not sure what's going on, but you have asked several of these questions about Orchids already - in the above posts and your other Orchid topics...



So I'll keep the responses to your questions quick and simple.

No, Orchids need flying feeders. Decor is your own preference but in a small 32oz deli cup there is little that can be added. No, they have to be heated as the ideal Orchid temperature is 82F. Springtails are fine, pill bugs I would avoid with small nymphs (as it can stress small nymphs).

You really should read the Orchid care sheet.


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## Ebichua (Dec 8, 2016)

Just give Hydei at L1 and you can switch to regular houseflies by L2. That's what I'm doing with mine! They are surprisingly strong at L2 and will tackle down a housefly the same size, if not slightly larger, with no real problem.


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## KevinsWither (Dec 8, 2016)

Yea I just realized that until I manage to obtain the species and get first hand experience I can only speculate. So if I have repeated some questions it is just that I can question and doubt certain aspects or  the simple fact that I am trying to prepare myself for it.


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## ZIV (Dec 11, 2016)

Yea were do you plan to get your orchid from?


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## ZIV (Dec 11, 2016)

Because the only website that still has one is http://capecodroaches.com/products/orchid-mantis but they mainly only do Roaches and this is there last week and of 2016


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## crabbypatty (Dec 11, 2016)

@ZIV I know Mantis Monarch has a waiting list for orchids, and you can keep an eye out in classifieds to see if anyone is selling them. I'm going to get a few when they hatch.


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## ZIV (Dec 11, 2016)

@crabbypatty thanks but i did not manage to find his page where he sells them all I got was http://mantismonarch.tumblr.com so please send me the website but yea I'm really searching for somone you will sell me like 2 l4s one male one female supposed to be a Christmas gift for my sister so yea please send me his page


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## KevinsWither (Dec 11, 2016)

ZIV said:


> Yea were do you plan to get your orchid from?


I do plan to get them from either mantismonarch, get an ooth from another seller who has them via facebook or instagram classifieds, or just look on the classfieds on the forum. For the enclosure, I am trying to get the supplies along with get a larger shelving rack so I can house orchid mantids along with more mantids, a 20 gallon (high) aquarium and have space for a 40 gallon breeder. Now along with that, I do plan on using shelving linear and will that work for orchids?


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## ZIV (Dec 11, 2016)

I imagine it would but I find it easier to just use 32oz dairy cup it also increases the chance of survival because  it's a lot easier to keep proper humidity and temp which is highly important that it stays right temp and humidity because they often have a hard time molting @KevinsWither


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## KevinsWither (Dec 11, 2016)

I do plan on making a diy incubator for exotic invert keeping with a heating pad meant for plant germination and some other things.


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## CosbyArt (Dec 11, 2016)

ZIV said:


> @crabbypatty thanks but i did not manage to find his page where he sells them all I got was http://mantismonarch.tumblr.com so please send me the website but yea I'm really searching for somone you will sell me like 2 l4s one male one female supposed to be a Christmas gift for my sister so yea please send me his page


He lists them in the classifieds and of course can be contacted in PM (private message), few breeders bother with a website as they don't offer that many species to make it worth while.


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## crabbypatty (Dec 11, 2016)

@ZIV He can be found if you google Mantis Monarch Shop, he's on facebook if you have one https://www.facebook.com/mantismonarchshop/?fref=ts


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## crabbypatty (Dec 11, 2016)

@ZIV They won't be available now though, his orchid just recently made an ooth, perhaps your sister would like a different mantis, I haven't seen anyone selling orchids right now. Keep an eye out in the classifieds but it might not be soon enough for Christmas. I'm really enjoying my Giant Asian, he's super sweet, and giant, lol. Idk if your sister would like a small mantis or a big one, but there are many available now that you can get and have something set up and ready to gift.


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## CosbyArt (Dec 11, 2016)

@ZIV Rebecca at MantisPlace has them listed as in-stock right now, here is the Orchid mantis page.


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## KevinsWither (Dec 11, 2016)

I do hear of kritter keepers being used for orchids. Would they work? With modification?


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## ZIV (Dec 11, 2016)

Yea I have a bunch of giant Asians but I'm gonna keep looking for an orchid but let me know if anyone sees one


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## Davedood (Dec 12, 2016)

I have some available.


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