# Milkweed bug (Oncopeltus fasciatus) as feeders?



## CosbyArt (Aug 26, 2015)

I've read that Milkweed bug's (Oncopeltus fasciatus) make good feeders for chameleons and dart frogs. I was curious if they could be used as a feeder for mantids too?

They have a quick 1 month life cycle at proper temperatures of 84 F (29 C) and can be feed cracked raw seeds of sunflower, watermelon, squash, cashew, and almonds. Seems like a ideal feeder besides the typical crickets or such during winter; however, in the wild they eat milkweed plants so they are toxic - but I figured after collecting adults and culturing a generation or two in captivity it will make them much safer in that regard.


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## Salmonsaladsandwich (Aug 26, 2015)

I imagine they're great! They're very soft bodied, active but not too fast, and they have a tendency to climb upwards. They look tasty.


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## patrickfraser (Aug 26, 2015)

Good luck


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## Introvertebrate (Aug 27, 2015)

In captivity, milkweed bugs can be raised on shelled sunflower seeds. I understand that renders them nontoxic.


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## dmina (Aug 27, 2015)

Interesting... Picture please... Thanks for sharing...


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## CosbyArt (Aug 28, 2015)

Salmonsaladsandwich said:


> I imagine they're great! They're very soft bodied, active but not too fast, and they have a tendency to climb upwards. They look tasty.


Sounds like a good feeder, now if I can get my picky mantids to eat them I'll be set - although I doubt it'll be a problem as they look like their typical food.  I cultured mealworms and my mantids refused to eat them.



patrickfraser said:


> Good luck


Thanks



Introvertebrate said:


> In captivity, milkweed bugs can be raised on shelled sunflower seeds. I understand that renders them nontoxic.


Indeed, thanks. After more searching about them I found that wild caught Milkweed bugs will need to go through at least 2 generations to render them 100% nontoxic. So if I start culturing them now, they will be ready when the flies and other feeders I catch die off - good timing.  



dmina said:


> Interesting... Picture please... Thanks for sharing...


Sure, I got busy today and rounded up 6 adults and about 10 nymphs of the Milkweed bugs, in 30 minutes before my dinner - photos below. Amazing the insect and bug populations around here, especially in the wild/overgrown car port area that I refuse to mow. I also found a Chinese mantid while collecting the Milkweed bugs, two feet from the car.  

I threw in some alternative seeds for tonight (squash) as I had those, after I raided our garden seeds lol. I will have to move them to a container with a finer mesh for the newly hatched, but they will do fine for tonight in my catching container. I hope to catch some more tomorrow and get them set with raw (uncooked and unsalted) sunflower seeds too.

The first photo is two of the bugs I caught from their undersides, a nymph and a adult - I labeled them as the nymph is hard to see through the mesh. The other shows some of their seeds for tonight, and two of them breeding. Some of the adults actually started mating as I was adding them to the container, seems me catching them didn't bother them at all.


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## dmina (Aug 29, 2015)

Cool... thanks Thomas... it is nice to have a picture of something you are talking about... for us, not to other insect knowledgeable


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## Ranitomeya (Aug 29, 2015)

I've raised them in the past as feeders. They're pretty easy to care for, but you must used shelled seeds as they cannot pierce the hardened, dried seed coat--especially with young nymphs.


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## CosbyArt (Aug 29, 2015)

Ranitomeya said:


> I've raised them in the past as feeders. They're pretty easy to care for, but you must used shelled seeds as they cannot pierce the hardened, dried seed coat--especially with young nymphs.


Thanks for the tip. I realized I forgot to do that and have since already replaced the food with cracked raw sunflower seeds. I'm curious as you raised them, is there anything you could share in regards to culturing them or such? I am basing my culturing efforts from the care guide found here.


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## Ranitomeya (Aug 29, 2015)

The guide looks good. The guide doesn't mention it, but the shelled seeds do need to be raw or else they will not feed on it.

I recommend you use a decent-sized container that is then lined with something absorbant such as paper towel since their excrement comes out as a fluid. You will need to make sure that the excrement dries quickly or the inside of the container will quickly become gummy and nymphs will start to get stuck and die, so you need to have good ventilation using a fine screen. They're quite prolific, so you should soon have a sizeable colony going unless something disastrous happens.

The milkweed bugs will not be able to move seeds around, so make sure you spread seeds in a dish so that there's just a one seed thick layer to avoid wasting seeds and to make sure they can access all the seeds. You will need to change the seeds frequently so they have fresh seeds or else they'll stop feeding on the seeds and will begin to cannibalize each other and die.


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## CosbyArt (Aug 29, 2015)

Ranitomeya said:


> The guide looks good. The guide doesn't mention it, but the shelled seeds do need to be raw or else they will not feed on it.
> 
> I recommend you use a decent-sized container that is then lined with something absorbant such as paper towel since their excrement comes out as a fluid. You will need to make sure that the excrement dries quickly or the inside of the container will quickly become gummy and nymphs will start to get stuck and die, so you need to have good ventilation using a fine screen. They're quite prolific, so you should soon have a sizeable colony going unless something disastrous happens.
> 
> The milkweed bugs will not be able to move seeds around, so make sure you spread seeds in a dish so that there's just a one seed thick layer to avoid wasting seeds and to make sure they can access all the seeds. You will need to change the seeds frequently so they have fresh seeds or else they'll stop feeding on the seeds and will begin to cannibalize each other and die.


Many thanks for looking over the guide and making recommendations - it's much appreciated. I will make the changes you suggested in my culture too. I'm curious though why you gave up culturing them now. Are they too much of a pain, or you found something better?

I do know the adult bugs make a noise similar to crickets but a longer sound - so I have them out in the hallway with the crickets so I don't hear them much either.


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## Ranitomeya (Aug 29, 2015)

I found them to require more maintenance than I'd prefer for feeders, so I stopped keeping them and now use fruitflies and roaches instead.

I've never noticed any sounds when I kept milkweed bugs.


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## CosbyArt (Aug 30, 2015)

Ranitomeya said:


> I found them to require more maintenance than I'd prefer for feeders, so I stopped keeping them and now use fruitflies and roaches instead.
> 
> I've never noticed any sounds when I kept milkweed bugs.


Makes sense, I'd do roaches but have been told I'd loose all my "bugs" then.

I can't find a clip of the sound online, but here it is talked about. I'll have to see about capturing their sounds (without crickets joining in) sometime.


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## CosbyArt (Aug 30, 2015)

Finally got a shot of one of my adult Milkweed bugs (above). It was photographed through the plastic tub though so the colors/photo looks a bit off.

Anyway I got my culture built using a 28oz utz Chesseball container I had (Wal-mart/Sam's Club, etc.). It measures in at 12" tall and 9" wide. Right now there are about 30+ Milkweed bugs of various sizes in it, and hope to add more soon. Once I get these cultured and start feeding my mantids I'll start another topic about it all.


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## CosbyArt (Sep 14, 2015)

Update - So far so good with the culture. I've had to add more cracked sunflower seeds, and refilled their water too. Most of the original nymphs are adults now and started laying eggs too.


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## dmina (Sep 17, 2015)

wow congrats Thomas... Looks like you are doing well with them.. I guess the milkweed plant is not needed for them? I hope it works though the winter..


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## CosbyArt (Sep 17, 2015)

dmina said:


> wow congrats Thomas... Looks like you are doing well with them.. I guess the milkweed plant is not needed for them? I hope it works though the winter..


Thanks, apparently they have been hiding their eggs as well as I've seen many new nymphs in there too. In the wild milkweed is their food source, and gives them the toxic protection from predators - but in captivity they seem to like the sunflower.

I hope so too as I like to give my mantids a variety of food (I do have plenty of crickets and wax moths in cultures for the winter too). If the Milkweed bugs don't work out I'll just have to order more BB pupae this winter for a variety.


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## sschind (Sep 25, 2015)

Have you noticed any peculiar odors from your colony. I set mine up on Tuesday and I have noticed a slight chemical smell that has been getting stronger. Its not unpleasant but if I leave my door open it fills the entire apartment pretty quickly.

I can't be sure it's coming from them because I also just got a new FF cultures from someone who has been using a different medium and it may be from them. A quick sniff of the bug tank and the ff deli leads me to think its the FFs. If so I can't wait to get my own cultures going so I can ditch this one.

here are a few pictures of my bugs. I went natural to see if I could use them for my bug shows plus I had an empty 2.5 gallon curved front tank just sitting around.


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## CosbyArt (Sep 25, 2015)

sschind said:


> Have you noticed any peculiar odors from your colony. I set mine up on Tuesday and I have noticed a slight chemical smell that has been getting stronger. Its not unpleasant but if I leave my door open it fills the entire apartment pretty quickly.
> 
> I can't be sure it's coming from them because I also just got a new FF cultures from someone who has been using a different medium and it may be from them. A quick sniff of the bug tank and the ff deli leads me to think its the FFs. If so I can't wait to get my own cultures going so I can ditch this one.
> 
> here are a few pictures of my bugs. I went natural to see if I could use them for my bug shows plus I had an empty 2.5 gallon curved front tank just sitting around.


I don't smell anything from mine, unless I am inside/over refilling the water bottle or such, and then it is very low smell. Very likely could be the FF culture, as I know I got one from Josh's Frogs lately and it has a smell all it's own.  

Looks like a good natural setup, although I'm not seeing a water "bottle" or food. I will tell you though the Milkweed bugs do quickly cover everything inside the culture with their liquid frass/droppings that looks like mantid vomit. It can be a bit unsightly and seems to stain everything.

Best of luck on your culture of Milkweed bugs. My original bug nymphs are all adults now, and there are many new 2nd generation pin dot nymphs inside. I haven't noticed any real population growth, but the numbers seem to be stable now as they made the switch to the sunflower seeds.


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## sschind (Sep 25, 2015)

Thanks for the tips. That probably explains the smell the guy I got the FF culture from gets his media from Josh's frogs.

I took the pictures before I put in the food and water. They are already messing it up so I doubt I'll keep them set up this way. I was more or less just testing it out. I have access to several species of large grasses and I've always wanted to see how they would look in a setup. I'll just keep the stuff around so when I do my bug shows I can make a quick display and add the bugs.

I'm seeing lots of molts on the ground so mine are maturing nicely as well. I did also set up a half a dozen or so in a 32 OZ deli just to see if they reproduce in there but I will probably end up going to a setup like yours.


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## CosbyArt (Sep 25, 2015)

sschind said:


> Thanks for the tips. That probably explains the smell the guy I got the FF culture from gets his media from Josh's frogs.
> 
> I took the pictures before I put in the food and water. They are already messing it up so I doubt I'll keep them set up this way. I was more or less just testing it out. I have access to several species of large grasses and I've always wanted to see how they would look in a setup. I'll just keep the stuff around so when I do my bug shows I can make a quick display and add the bugs.
> 
> I'm seeing lots of molts on the ground so mine are maturing nicely as well. I did also set up a half a dozen or so in a 32 OZ deli just to see if they reproduce in there but I will probably end up going to a setup like yours.


Ha, that is funny. Not sure what it is but the culture medium/media of the FF's I got sure has a unique and strong odor. Almost as powerful as the experiment I did with just potato flakes, water, and yeast  

Yeah the Milkweed bugs will start to dirty their culture pretty quickly, and is why paper towels are recommended. Sounds like a good idea, nothing better to show off a invert like a terrarium setup.






As you just started to culture them I'd recommend if you can find more Milkweed bugs add them to your culture, as not of them will make the transition to sunflower seeds. After several trips/collecting them I started off with 346 Milkweed bugs (according to my record log, and yeah I counted them when I found them lol). Right now a quick count reveled just over 80 visible, and likely another 50 or so hiding in the paper and seeds (lots of tiny nymphs), but not counting the eggs.

So put simply about half will die in the change from their natural food to the new food source, from old age, or unknown reasons. I figure anyway the more you can start off with to culture the more you can feed off once they loose their toxicity.


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## CosbyArt (Mar 4, 2016)

Update - The milkweed bugs were doing fine, the 2nd generation of captive bugs give birth to the 3rd generation; however, in that timeframe they all seemed to die relativity about the same time of in about a week. Not sure if the black sunflower seeds were not a good enough food source, or if they simply went without water for too long (as they use a lot of water, and it was dry for a bit).

I will try again this spring when I can capture more. Strangely, I seen a small group of them living on dried out seed pods on the fence row in early January - I guess with the mild winter and little snow, from the El Nino weather, many insects lived much longer this year.


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