# Ohaple's Vivarium Setups



## ohaple (Oct 23, 2018)

I have posted about these setups in other threads but thought I would compile them into one place in case anyone can learn from our experience making small mantis vivariums.

We are using the NEHERP Vivarium Construction 101 as our guide: http://www.neherpetoculture.com/vivariumconstruction101

We will need to modify their requirements to make the smaller enclosures work. Their guide assumes a 10gallon tank or larger. The smaller enclosures pose a challenge since fluctuations in temperature or humidity can be a problem as can overcrowding. Budget is also a concern. It is nearly free to keep a ghost mantis in a deli cup with some paper towel and sticks, but a bioactive setup requires drainage, a larger enclosure, better substrate, the live plants, proper heat, and adequate methods to measure heat and humidity. We are trying to get this done for as cheap as possible. I would guess $100 each including the enclosure, electronics, microfauna, plants, etc. We also will not be allowing the vivarium to cycle 4-6 weeks like is recommended, because we are impatient.

*Version 1.0*

We started by building custom enclosures using the 3x height 2x width ratio that I see posted almost everywhere. The species that will go in the vivariums are giant rainforest (gets about 4") and peacock mantis (gets about 3.5") with those numbers in mind we built the enclosures. I had originally thought that the rainforest would only get 3.5" so I made the enclosures about 11" tall. We will have to move him out when he is full grown, but the vivarium will still be suitable for our ghosts.







We made our first attempt at the vivarium using lucky bamboo and a vining plant. Gravel for the drainage layer, a mix of ZooMed Creature Soil and sphagnum moss for the substrate. Microfauna includes springtails and dwarf white isopods.






This setup has been fine for the last couple of weeks, but the light pictured is not sufficient for plant growth. The lucky bamboo started having problems until we switched to a more powerful light. As time went, we also found the NEHERP resource and realized we made a few other mistakes. That said, Carl, our giant rainforest mantis has enjoyed the variety and readily moves around the enclosure, top to bottom. He uses the wood and the bamboo to climb on and hangs out less on his lid, which I take as a good sign. We used a stick-on thermometer/hygrometer to keep our eye on those, and a stick-on heater for the back of the enclosure rather than trying to heat through the substrate. Heating through the substrate is not a great idea because it will not adequately heat the enclosure unless you use a lot of heat, in which case the humidity spikes. Heating on the back has been much better and allows him a nice temperature gradient to choose where he is comfortable.

*Version 2.0*

So, now knowing our mistakes, we are working on version 2.0. We took Carl out and put him in a larger enclosure while we do construction on his primary enclosure. We learned that you should keep some standing water in the drainage layer and that the mesh separating the drainage layer and soil should be large enough for springtails to pass through. In order to allow standing water, we needed to seal the enclosure better.

Our initial construction was almost watertight, but had a couple leaks. So we took out the substrate and plants etc, and cleaned out the enclosure. Then we used silicone to seal the bottom seams and 3" up the side seams, so you won't see the silicone above the substrate but it will be watertight in the places it is important.

We were also unhappy with the dwarf white isopods. Not in their performance, but in their visual appearance. They seem to clean well and reproduce quickly, but we can never seem to see them. Part of the enjoyment is seeing the bioactive processes at work. We can see the springtails in the drainage layer. We ordered several giant canyon isopods, which should also be suitable and much easier to see due to the larger size. We will still use the dwarf whites as well.

We were not happy with the luck bamboo or the little vine we got. The bamboo requires too much water and will grow too quickly. We ordered a variety of other plants from Josh'sFrogs to allow us to try out new types


Syngonium podophyllum 'Mini Pixie' - Super Dwarf Butterfly PlantPLANT5471$4.49

Neoregelia 'Zoe'PLANT1701$6.99

Fresh Mood Moss (1 Quart)PLANT5501$6.99

Selaginella martensii 'Jori Spikemoss'PLANT2801$4.49

Philodendron 'Wend-imbe'PLANT4111$7.99

Neoregelia 'Tiger Cub'PLANT0741$6.99

We also got a more powerful light. The light is hooked to a timer, and the heat is hooker to a thermostat to keep a nice even temperature and day/night cycle.

The plants and isopods will be delivered tomorrow. We will need to use more substrate and drainage this time around since we didn't use enough last time. I am hopeful that we can get the setup balanced and healthy so we can enjoy the live plants, microfauna, and mantids in a more natural setup. This whole thing will be duplicated, one for Carl and one for our peacock mantis. They will have different plants for variety.


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## Graceface (Oct 23, 2018)

Really nice setups! I have too many mantises currently to do this, I keep mine in deli cups with paper towels due to cost and ease of care. Looking at these definitely makes me peanut butter and JEALOUS! Wish I could afford like 20 of these, lol.

Keep us posted on how the new additions to the vivariums work out for you!


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## ohaple (Oct 23, 2018)

Graceface said:


> Really nice setups! I have too many mantises currently to do this, I keep mine in deli cups with paper towels due to cost and ease of care. Looking at these definitely makes me peanut butter and JEALOUS! Wish I could afford like 20 of these, lol.
> 
> Keep us posted on how the new additions to the vivariums work out for you!


Thanks, I totally understand that its not for everyone. It is more expensive and more work to setup. We are going with more standard enclosures for our ghosts, with just some substrate and cork and sticks and fake plants, because we don't want the effort or cost associated with doing all of them bioactive. I can't remember who it is on here, but someone has a great shelf with cheese ball containers and deli cups (something to do with heat cable?) that looks awesome and I would assume is pretty affordable and easy to maintain. EDIT: It is @Synapze

This is what we are doing for the non-bioactive setups:


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## Synapze (Oct 23, 2018)

ohaple said:


> I can't﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿ remember who it is on here, but someone has a great shelf with ﻿cheese ball containers and deli cups (something to do with hea﻿﻿﻿﻿t﻿ cable?) that looks awesome and I would assume is pretty﻿﻿ affordable and easy to maintain. ﻿﻿


Thanks, yes they are very easy to maintain. If I had to guess, each large container cost about $6.00. That's with gravel, vent insert, and humidity meter... and of course the container. I don't like cheese balls, so my friends love it when I make a new enclosure. ? I didn't want to invest much until I made sure I would enjoy the hobby and I stuck with them simply because they worked. Eventually, I plan to decrease my collection and only keep two or three at a time. That's when I'm going to copy your ideas, so please keep sharing! ?


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## ohaple (Oct 23, 2018)

Synapze said:


> Thanks, yes they are very easy to maintain. If I had to guess, each large container cost about $6.00. That's with gravel, vent insert, and humidity meter... and of course the container. I don't like cheese balls, so my friends love it when I make a new enclosure. ? I didn't want to invest much until I made sure I would enjoy the hobby and I stuck with them simply because they worked. Eventually, I plan to decrease my collection and only keep two or three at a time. That's when I'm going to copy your ideas, so please keep sharing! ?


I will be sure to share as we learn. Your setup looks very nice and clean, among the best I have seen, especially for keeping so many specimens.


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## ohaple (Oct 26, 2018)

We got the plants and isopods in the mail today. The plants all look great, but the isopods delivered were powder orange and not giant canyon.

We put down a new layer of gravel deeper than the first time. Then mesh. Then the substrate. We then put five or ten dwarf white isopods in each container. Then we poured many springtails in.

Then we got to planting. We decided to put one bromeliad in each, a wood feature in each, and leafy plants in each. After arranging them, we crushed a few leaves on top of the substrate and placed a couple more. Both have heat pads on back and lights for the top. We put the powder orange isopods in the enclosure for the peacock, since they are faster moving.

Here they are. They need a few days to sit and acclimate. We are looking forward to putting the mantids in.

*Giant rainforest mantis enclosure (springtails, dwarf white isopods, mood moss, zoe bromeliad, jori spikemoss)*










 

*Peacock mantis enclosure (springtails, dwarf white isopods, powder orange isopods, mood moss, tiger cub bromeliad, philodendron, dwarf butterfly plant)*


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## MantisGirl13 (Oct 26, 2018)

Those are some beautiful enclosures! I am jealous! ?

- MantisGirl13


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## ohaple (Oct 26, 2018)

After seeing how much more active above the surface the powder orange isopods are compared to the dwarf whites, I am somewhat concerned that they will become expensive dinner for the mantids. The peacock is a picky and doesnt actively hunt much, but our giant rainforest mantis, Carl, is a very active hunter and often will come down to the lower third of his enclosure. If he sees them running around I am certain he will be on the hunt. I am hoping that the giant canyon isopods are slower moving and less appetizing to him. At about $2 each plus the expensive shipping, I would rather he not eat them all. We might hold back most of them to start a culture so that we can breed more. At their size, 3 should be plenty, especially when coupled with the dwarf whites and isopods.

Some of the plants are from temperate deciduous forests, while others are from tropical rainforests, which is a little disjointed. If I were to do this again, I would probably spend more time researching the plants in the region the mantis is from to create a more authentic display.

My wife is excited by the powder orange isopods and thinks they are pretty cute. Hopefully we are able to establish a healthy population of them and keep all the plants alive. Fingers crossed.

Also, I forgot to post overview photos and construction photos last night.

Here are the plants when they arrived:






Here are the powder orange isopods in the shipping container:






We set the drainage layer and mesh and substrate in with the bottom silicone sealed now. Both the substrate and drainage layer are shallower than most vivariums since we are working with limited space.






Then we started setting up plants






And finally, here is how they look from a distance:


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## MantisGirl13 (Oct 26, 2018)

Very nice! 

- MantisGirl13


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## Pun1sh3R (Oct 27, 2018)

Can you tell us what lights you are using in the last picture?  They look nice.


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## ohaple (Oct 28, 2018)

Of course. They are the smallest of the Nicrew lights on amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0191EWII2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;psc=1

They are low heat, pretty bright, seem to be doing well with the plants, and are a neutral white color. Also they are cheap at only $17. The downside is that the moonlight mode requires you to flip the switch manually, so if you are like me and have the lights on a timer you will just get on and off without any sunrise or sunset.

We decided to continue to wait before adding the mantids back. I believe that both of the larger ones are close to molting (L5 peacock hasnt molted since at least Oct. 1, and L6 giant rainforest hasn't molted since October 2). I don't want them to get into this new experimental setup while a molt is imminent.

Josh's Frogs said they would send the isopods we ordered on Monday, so we will end up with a different variety in each enclosure. 

Not more than 24 hours after we set it up and planted it, the grapewood started to mold in a few places. I have read about this happening with some other people's terrariums as well. But then, another day later, the area was swarming with springtails. Another day, and half the mold is gone. The microfauna really seems to be doing its job.

Here it is when to springtails first showed up. the mold is on the wood in the bottom left.






Here is the next day. They really are making short work of it.






The plants seem to be getting a little less wilted after the shipping process as well. We got the electronics bought and hooked up so that the lights and heaters will all be automated. To save money we are only using one timer for both lights, and one thermostat for the two heating pads. It has been pretty consistently 78 degrees and 60% humidity.


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## ohaple (Oct 30, 2018)

A little update, the cycling is going great. The springtails have been breeding like crazy and took care of all of the mold. Since Carl just molted last night, we are planning to put him in soon! I have been doing more research and it sounds like this mold cycle is beneficial and sometimes you even will get mushrooms that pop up from time to time.






I am somewhat disappointed in the dwarf white isopods so far. While we only seeded about 10-15 into each enclosure, we haven't seen a single one helping with mold or other waste. They might be doing their jobs inside the soil, but we have no real way to know.


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## MantisGirl13 (Oct 30, 2018)

Congratulations on the molt! I hope your dwarf white isopods will do what you want them to!

- MantisGirl13


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## ohaple (Oct 30, 2018)

MantisGirl13 said:


> Congratulations on the molt! I hope your dwarf white isopods will do what you want them to!
> 
> - MantisGirl13


Thanks, I swear he gets more beautiful every molt. The green is brighter and since he is larger each feature is more pronounced. I am hoping his red coloration starts to brighten up some too.


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## Patty (Oct 30, 2018)

Wow! Very impressive. Beautiful! Those Mantises sure are lucky!

Im just putting together my 1st bio active set up. I'll send you pics.I'm planning to host an adult female Truncata in it! So fun!


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## Patty (Oct 30, 2018)




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## ohaple (Oct 30, 2018)

Patty said:


> View attachment 11671


That looks awesome. It looks like you went all out with expanding foam backdrop etc. like the frog guys do. Is that in a 20 gallon? Some of our biggest challenges have been trying to get the needs of a bioactive setup in a more typical-size mantis enclosure. Are you using isopods? Do you have concerns that the mantis will eat them up? Its probably less of an issue in a large enclosure like you have.


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## Synapze (Oct 30, 2018)

@Patty Beautiful!


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## MantisGirl13 (Oct 30, 2018)

Patty said:


> View attachment 11671


That is beautiful, @Patty (Btw, can you please reply to my pm? I have been wanting to talk to you for a while!   )

- MantisGirl13


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## ohaple (Nov 1, 2018)

We added Carl to his vivarium and reorganized everything. The peacock will go in his enclosure soon as well, we just wanted to give him a couple days after his molt. I have been happy to see that the powder orange isopods hide on the stalks of the philodendron and mini pixie, so they are at fairly low risk for getting munched on by the peacock that spends 100% of his time on the lid.

The other isopods and feeders come today, so we will be able to keep improving the setup. Here are some photos we took during the transition.







Here are his raptors






Getting acclimated:
















I like how his colors match the bromeliad. Excited to add in some isopods today and continue working on the setup. We plan to move the peacock tomorrow.


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 1, 2018)

Beautiful! I am glad he likes his new home!

- MantisGirl13


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## ohaple (Nov 2, 2018)

We got the new feeders and isopods last night.

The giant canyon isopods are great. Being a little larger, you can usually spot one or two trying to hide. We added 5 of them to Carl's enclosure just in case he decides to start snacking on them, we have 5 extras that will hopefully be breeding some.
















This one seems oblivious that a predator is lurking. We made sure to feed Carl well before adding them so he hopefully won't go after them right away.






We also added the peacock mantis to his enclosure. He seems like he is doing well. The powder orange isopods are all good enough at hiding that I'm not worried about them getting eaten.
















Now the only problem we are having is balancing humidity and heat. If we add moisture and heat, the humidity spikes into the 90s. Then it settles out in the 40s or 50s, but I figure the humidity getting so high is not good for them. Its primarily a problem on the ghost enclosures where there is a less ventilation. The others with full mesh lids we are about to keep at 50-70% fairly easily.


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 2, 2018)

Cool! 

- MantisGirl13


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## Synapze (Nov 2, 2018)

ohaple said:


> If we add moisture and heat, the humidity spikes into the 90s. Then﻿﻿ it settles out in the 40s or 50s, but I figure the humidity getting so high is﻿ not good f﻿﻿or them﻿﻿.﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿


How long does it take for the humidity to stabilize to your target level? If we're talking hours and not days, I don't think there is a problem. RH zone for Ghosts ranges from 60-90 according to my reading. 

Sources:

https://www.keepinginsects.com/praying-mantis/species/phyllocrania-paradoxa/

? This dedicated forum caresheet sets target zone between 40-70%.


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## ohaple (Nov 2, 2018)

Synapze said:


> How long does it take for the humidity to stabilize to your target level? If we're talking hours and not days, I don't think there is a problem. RH zone for Ghosts ranges from 60-90 according to my reading.


It takes a few hours usually. If we see it over 90% we take the lid off to allow it to come down more quickly. Our screen-top vivariums stabilize in less than a half hour due to the significant ventilation. We usually mist twice per day, spraying on the substrate and walls of the enclosure. With the vivariums we mist and also pour in water as needed to keep a little standing water in the drainage layer.


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## ohaple (Nov 5, 2018)

We finally got around to rearranging furniture. Now they are kept on a box-style organizer, which does a much better job at hiding the cables and giving us storage for the accessories and feeders. I also found an extra thermostat and some better lighting for the ghosts, so the whole setup is looking much more clean, organized, and well-lit.


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 5, 2018)

ohaple said:


> We finally got around to rearranging furniture. Now they are kept on a box-style organizer, which does a much better job at hiding the cables and giving us storage for the accessories and feeders. I also found an extra thermostat and some better lighting for the ghosts, so the whole setup is looking much more clean, organized, and well-lit.


That is a beautiful setup! I am envious of your enclosures, and they look amazing on that organizer shelf!

- MantisGirl13


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## Cole 78 (Nov 24, 2018)

Wow, these are gorgeous setups and mantids! I wouldnt worry about Carl eating the isopods, not sure why but most predators show no interest in isopods.


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## ohaple (Nov 26, 2018)

Cole 78 said:


> Wow, these are gorgeous setups and mantids! I wouldnt worry about Carl eating the isopods, not sure why but most predators show no interest in isopods.


He ate all of the isopods that we seeded the tank with. Now we find that he hangs out within striking distance of the substrate, likely because he learned there is food there. I think the problem was choosing such a large variety to house him with. We used giant canyon isopods, which are somewhat similar in shape, size, and behavior to mid-sized dubias. A faster and smaller isopod variety would probably not be an issue. Dwarf whites are almost certainly a safe bet (but are boring). We might introduce powder orange or another mid-sized type. Our peacock Courage hasn't touched any of his powder oranges as far as I know.

I had read this advice and ignored it, so for anyone else: establish a culture with your isopods prior to adding them to the vivarium. It keeps you from spending too much on reseeding the vivarium if needed and allows you to turn a small isopod investment into animals for many vivaria.


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 26, 2018)

Maybe you should use smaller isopods XD 

I am glad Courage has not eaten his isopods!

- MantisGirl13


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## ohaple (Nov 26, 2018)

MantisGirl13 said:


> Maybe you should use smaller isopods XD
> 
> I am glad Courage has not eaten his isopods!
> 
> - MantisGirl13


Yeah, since he is a picky eater I'm not too worried. Hoping to get dwarf whites, powder orange, and giant canyon all established cultures so we can use them moving forward. My hope is to have dwarf whites and springtails in every bioactive setup and then one larger species in each. It will take a little time though for our giant canyon colony to get established since I only held back 5 and they haven't bred yet.

Also, the landscape on the table has changed. We added a 7 gallon aquarium that will house freshwater isopods, shrimp, a snail, and maybe a couple guppies. Its the invertebrate corner.


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 26, 2018)

Cool! It sounds like you are really into creating neat vivarium and aquarium setups!

- MantisGirl13


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## ohaple (Nov 26, 2018)

MantisGirl13 said:


> Cool! It sounds like you are really into creating neat vivarium and aquarium setups!
> 
> - MantisGirl13


Hope so. The aquarium is sort of the same theme as the vivariums. Lots of live plants and microfauna to make a little ecosystem. We still have a lot of work to do on the aquarium though.


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## Patty (Nov 26, 2018)

Oh thank you so much!

Yes. I believe it's a 20 gallon. At this time I only have a large mature colony of Orange isopods added and an adult female Truncata. I'm currently culturing white* *Pruinosus isopods with spring tails to eventually add as well. I got those this last weekend at an exotic animal show that I  (Mantids Galore!) was a vendor. I ended up trading Orchid Mantises for Everything that I used to put it together... Other than the Truncata.

The isopods are pretty prolific so, it's  ok if some are eaten. I cultured them for several weeks before putting them in.   I'm currently culturing springtails to eventually add. It's not as hard as I thought it would be... So glad that I've done it.... 

Here's a pic of my spring tail &amp; white Pruinosus isopods culture.View attachment 11672


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 27, 2018)

@Patty That is great that you are setting up a vivarium! Please post pictures! 

- MantisGirl13


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## Patty (Nov 27, 2018)

I will I saw your message about your Budwings.... You'll just need to keep trying and keep a close eye  on her...  One trick that works for me, is to smear honey all over her raptors just as you introduce them ...best if she doesn't see him...

She'll get preoccupied cleaning off the honey, 

she shouldn't do anything to him


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 28, 2018)

Patty said:


> I will I saw your message about your Budwings.... You'll just need to keep trying and keep a close eye  on her...  One trick that works for me, is to smear honey all over her raptors just as you introduce them ...best if she doesn't see him...
> 
> She'll get preoccupied cleaning off the honey,
> 
> she shouldn't do anything to him


Thanks!

- MantisGirl13


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## Mystymantis (Nov 30, 2018)

I absolutely love your setups! They are so lively and beautiful. Is it hard to maintain them?


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## Patty (Dec 1, 2018)

Well thank you.... They're super easy! The isopods and spring tails break down any animal waste, decaying plant material, mold...etc. which in return creates ideal soil for the plants. The concept is to not need to clean the enclosure. So, once it's set up.... incredibly easy to care for. I'm currently culturing several isopod species and spring tails to offer on my site in the near future. Im really enjoying raising isopods. Highly recommended!


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## Mantis Lady (Dec 3, 2018)

ohaple said:


> We finally got around to rearranging furniture. Now they are kept on a box-style organizer, which does a much better job at hiding the cables and giving us storage for the accessories and feeders. I also found an extra thermostat and some better lighting for the ghosts, so the whole setup is looking much more clean, organized, and well-lit.


this looks so cool. I like this set up


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## ohaple (Dec 3, 2018)

Not so much an update to the mantises, but to the setup as a whole. We have reorganized it so that the mantids are closer together and now we also have a planted aquarium to match our vivariums. The planted aquarium will be for aquatic inverts (neocaridina shrimp and snails). It currently has a few fish for cycling the water. The roaches were moved to better gasket containers. We haven't been using our banana roaches as feeders yet, waiting for them to start breeding some, it looks like they have started breeding. Our dubias are not mature yet so no breeding there, but they also got a new nicer home. The isopods are now getting heat to hopefully make them happier and possibly speed up breeding.

We are struggling with our mood moss in both vivariums, but the bromeliads and philodendron are growing nicely. We are starting to get into the swing of keeping them so it isn't taking up very much time and we can just mist, feed, and enjoy. Carl must think there are more isopods to munch on because we see him standing on the ground hunting from time to time.

Now that the enclosures are closer, the mantids can see each other. Carl sometimes looks like he is hunting his neighbor when she does her leaf dance. Is that stressful on either mantis? I don't want Carl to have problems from being in hunt mode too often and don't want Casper to be stressed from being hunted. Obviously they are both safe since there is two layers of acrylic between them, but they don't seem to understand that.

I don't have a picture of the whole thing, but we slid the mantids to the right and the aqaurium is on the far left now:







The springtails are a great vivarium cleaner, but also make good live food for small fish, so that has been positive too.


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 3, 2018)

What a beautiful setup, as usual! 

- MantisGirl13


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## kwright (Dec 22, 2018)

These enclosures are so beautiful. If we didn't move so much I would definitely be looking into live vivariums and a cleaning crew. But we move every 2.5 years and with small chances of being moved over seas I can't get crazy with my enclosures. I have to be able to tear them apart with minimal cost.


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## ohaple (Dec 27, 2018)

kwright said:


> These enclosures are so beautiful. If we didn't move so much I would definitely be looking into live vivariums and a cleaning crew. But we move every 2.5 years and with small chances of being moved over seas I can't get crazy with my enclosures. I have to be able to tear them apart with minimal cost.


Thank you! These move pretty well. Honestly my major concern would be for the mantis since they are the most picky thing in the entire setup. You basically forget all about the plants and cleanup crew as long as you are misting and have decent lighting.

A small update. Carl ate every last one of the giant canyon isopods in his enclosure. We held back five, but they haven't begun breeding yet. The mood moss and spikemoss in the enclosures is doing poorly. I think the moisture and light requirements must be contrary to how we keep our vivariums. Our bromeliads and philodendron are growing great. Surprisingly, the mood moss in our banana roach colony, which gets no light, is doing very well. Carl and Courage have both molted to adulthood and are doing well. We don't see many of the powder orange isopods, anymore, but I doubt Courage is eating them since we can hardly get him to eat anything. Hopefully they are continuing to thrive under the surface and in the cover of the plants. We are planning to install new, better, lighting so that we don't have as many wires to contend with.


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## hysteresis (Dec 27, 2018)

These are nice. Ive been out shopping nice enclosures. I think I value a uniform appearance to them. Maybe three nano talls for the bigger bugs.


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## ohaple (Dec 27, 2018)

hysteresis said:


> These are nice. Ive been out shopping nice enclosures. I think I value a uniform appearance to them. Maybe three nano talls for the bigger bugs.


Yeah, to me symmetry was most important. I didn't want to give the L4 ghosts the same enclosure as the sub adult giant rainforest. So I compromised with two sizes and set them up to be symmetrical in appearance. Now that we have added the shrimp tank, things are off balance. While I really like all of our mantises, I only really want to keep two long-term. I would like two mantises and our shrimp tank. Plus our guinea pigs and the soon to come dog, and our cleaner/feeder cultures, thats plenty of animals for me.


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## hysteresis (Dec 27, 2018)

ohaple said:


> Plus our guinea pigs ...


Oooh we have piggies too. LoL.

We love em.

I have an L6 golden I want to house properly. The L4 shields will need the same as the goldens once they come along a bit. I was thinking those exo terras would do.

As beautiful as yours are, I'm not sure about a true vivarium setup like y'all have though. That's more work than the animals themselves.


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## ohaple (Dec 28, 2018)

hysteresis said:


> Oooh we have piggies too. LoL.
> 
> We love em.
> 
> ...


Our household spends lots of time on the guinea pigs. My wife actually runs a business part time making guinea pig supplies. They aren't my favorite, but she sure loves them.

Yeah. Our ghosts are in more typical non-bioactive setups with just a little sphagnum moss at the bottom and fake plants and sticks to climb on. It is for sure less maintenance and is cheaper to setup. For us, the vivarium setup was the primary draw. We wanted to keep a little ecosystem. Now we have transferred that to the aquatic setups as well. Some day it would be cool to do a split aquatic/terrestrial vivarium to keep both in the same enclosure. I have seen some great setups at the local fish store where they are heavily planted with bromeliads etc that would be great for mantids and then have some water with micro fish and shrimp.


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## hysteresis (Dec 28, 2018)

ohaple said:


> Our household spends lots of time on the guinea pigs. My wife actually runs a business part time making guinea pig supplies. They aren't my favorite, but she sure loves them.


Cool. We keep ours right in our main living room. We handle ours a lot and feed them fresh veggies daily. We got them for our young boys, but I think we love the guinea pigs as much or more than they do. 

What kinds of GP supplies?


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## ohaple (Dec 28, 2018)

hysteresis said:


> Cool. We keep ours right in our main living room. We handle ours a lot and feed them fresh veggies daily. We got them for our young boys, but I think we love the guinea pigs as much or more than they do.
> 
> What kinds of GP supplies?


She makes mostly cage liners and beds, but also does some chew toys and things for the owners like guinea pig calendars and keychains.

People are always surprised about the size of our cage since it is a CNC cage, 5x2 grids with a 2x2 loft. I swear they eat better than we do. I preferred rats when we had them in the past. While they have a stigma, they are super smart and loving. I always feel like the guinea pigs don't care about us as long as they are fed.

I don't know the rules about self promotion here, but if you are interested in looking at it I can DM you a link. She does it a full 20 hours a week and has had pretty good success.


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## hysteresis (Dec 28, 2018)

Sure DM the link please.

Y'all have your own CNC?

That's how you're cutting your plastics for your vivariums. 

And the bases and tops too!


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## ohaple (Jan 3, 2019)

hysteresis said:


> Sure DM the link please.
> 
> Y'all have your own CNC?
> 
> ...


We have a small (20"x30") CNC and a Glowforge laser cutter. We made these enclosures using the laser. Acrylic cuts so nice with a laser. We use it to make lots of accessories. I dm'd you the link to her store if interested.


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## hysteresis (Jan 3, 2019)

Cool ty.

Who'd think you can laser plastics!

Amazing. You design the enclosures in CAD?


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## ohaple (Jan 3, 2019)

hysteresis said:


> Cool ty.
> 
> Who'd think you can laser plastics!
> 
> Amazing. You design the enclosures in CAD?


We usually only operate in 2.5d since it is easier to work with vectors instead of 3d models. I will often design in sketchup just to visualize the product, then I use Vcarve (a 2.5d CNC software suite) to make the final design. The nice thing is Vcarve easily exports to the laser or CNC so we can use whichever tool works best for the job. The glowforge also allows 3d engraving so we sometimes will make 2.5d parts on the laser as well, it just takes longer.

Many plastics are toxic, but acrylic is safe to cut on a laser. For these enclosures we also cut wood and felt. It is really fun to have tools to make precise parts on the fly.


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## hysteresis (Jan 3, 2019)

ohaple said:


> It is really fun to have tools to make precise parts on the fly.


You're blessed to have these tools available to you.

As a mechanical engineering technologist, I use Solidworks to design machines in 3D.

At work, we have a large CNC 2.5 axis machines used to profile and pocket plastics and wood composites. I can probably sneak a piece or two on there from time to time. But that's further down in my journey.


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## ohaple (Jan 4, 2019)

hysteresis said:


> You're blessed to have these tools available to you.
> 
> As a mechanical engineering technologist, I use Solidworks to design machines in 3D.
> 
> At work, we have a large CNC 2.5 axis machines used to profile and pocket pla﻿stics and wood composites. I can probably sneak a piece or two on there from time to time. But that's further down in my journey.


I do feel very fortunate. I have the best of both worlds. They are my father's machines, but I can come over whenever I want on weekends to use them. Laser cutters and CNC machines aren't as expensive as many people think. We use them to make custom knife scales to sell, custom gifts for family, custom speakers and headphones, fish tank accessories, etc.


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## ohaple (Mar 4, 2019)

Upgraded to now have an overkill vivarium for one of my mantises.

Long story long... I am wanting to start a small A. Vulgare (isopod) breeding project. That got me to thinking I really wish I had a good display for my  isopods. For isopods, floor space is the name of the game. You only really need 1" of substrate and then only enough headroom to allow them to not escape. So I was thinking about building them custom vivariums. But also one mantis already died and another only has maybe 1 month left. We want to keep fewer mantises to help the time it takes to feed, so we were going to be tearing down the vivariums. With all of the animals, our house has become a zoo and we have to spend about 1/2 of our free time caring for the animals. I want 1 good display vivarium, 1 good display aquarium, the cat, the guinea pigs, and supplemental isopod and springtail cultures (the wife has her eyes on a dog in the next year as well as chickens......). No more roaches, and not 5 mantises in display-style containers. I really love the vivarium plants though, and want to keep them. We have never had success keeping houseplants, and vivarium plants add an extra little bit of flair.

So, I decided to get a larger vivarium to put all of the plants in, and also to keep one colony of isopods. Side benefit for Courage, our peacock mantis, he gets a huge new home. Finally, I thought it was wiser to spend $60 on a vivarium that I could use for millipedes, stick bugs, mantids, frogs, etc rather than spend a weekend of time and $30 in acrylic to build custom isopod enclosures. More than being mantis-lovers we are animal lovers so it will be nice to have some flexibility.

Here it is. I am happy with it so far. It is a 12x12x18" Exo-terra. Luckily, the old LED light fixtures fit it ok, but I also got lucky and found the hood for it for $3 at a thrift store so I have options.

As always, started with a drainage layer. This keeps the substrate from getting soaked if I over water. I had an acrylic frame and mesh that fit perfectly to keep the soil and drainage layer from mixing too much. I used aquarium gravel, which is not ideal for this due to weight.











Then the substrate. Mixed some Josh's Frogs isopod substrate with some coconut fiber, sphagnum moss, crumbled leaves, and charcoal. This is important for the isopods since it is their home and thier food. If it doesn't have enough leaf matter to eat, they won't produce well. If it stays too moist or dries out too fast, same thing. It also needed to be decent for the plants, but the rooting plants had some invertebrate-safe potting soil stuck to the roots and I left that alone. Sorry for the blurry photo.






Then the plants.






Finally I put in the isopods. I would guess 7 adult giant canyon isopods and some 100+ small juveniles. They took a few months to begin producing, but now are birthing huge sets of young. I kept about 1/2 of the juveniles in a separate culture just in case something goes wrong. These guys grow sooooo slowly. I originally thought the young were dwarf whites that got into the culture because they were similar color or size. It has taken 1-2 months for any real color to show up on the young. I believe it will be another 3-6 months until they are sexually mature. But once that happens, I will have a nice big colony so I can start selling/sharing. Giant canyons are not the most attractive, but I have a fondness for them.






We put Courage in this enclosure since he is too cowardly to hunt down the isopods. Carl, our h. majuscula, ate most of the giant canyons in his vivarium within 1 month. Courage on the other hand, he won't eat a cricket 2 inches from his face. I doubt he will actively hunt them. One concern is that I would like to pin him once he passes. The isopods may start in on him if we don't catch it soon enough. I may make a net to catch him to prevent that. No springtails in this setup unless some managed to sneak in. They are only helpful and we have a culture on hand, but I want to see if the isopods do well enough on their own.


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## MantisGirl13 (Mar 5, 2019)

Wow! You've been busy, ohaple!

- MantisGirl13


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## ohaple (Mar 5, 2019)

MantisGirl13 said:


> Wow! You've been busy, ohaple!
> 
> - MantisGirl13


Yeah between this change and setting up our new aquarium we have been awfully busy. Here is a quick shot of the aquarium just for fun. This is where we keep our shrimp, a couple snails, and some small fish.


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## MantisGirl13 (Mar 5, 2019)

That's an awesome aquarium! 

- MantisGirl13


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## ohaple (Mar 6, 2019)

MantisGirl13 said:


> That's an awesome aquarium!
> 
> - MantisGirl13


Thanks. It will hopefully look even better once the plants grow in. The little bits of green in the front left should eventually be a carpet. And the moss in the "tree" should fill out to look more like a canopy.


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## Teamonger (Mar 14, 2019)

I'm a bit late to the party but I am so jealous of your glowforge. Its a dream of mine to get one but it´s likely going to be a few years as a bigger house is far more important (so i can fill it with insects!). There is a FabLab here that has all the fun protoyping tools that you can pay to use but its only open one day a week and is a hassle to get to. 

Your terrariums are so well designed, pretty AND functional! I have only managed functional with the few I created using a 3D printer we had at my previous workplace. I have been using and cleaning those few for almost 2 years now however so they have withstood the test of time. The one try I made using a laser cutter was with wood due to price and did not go the best  

Since the topic has been brought up I would like to mention my favorite 3D modeling program
https://www.tinkercad.com/
its not the the best tool for sure but its online, simple, and has a reasonable learning curve unlike many 3D programs. I have used it to design furniture, simple greenhouses, mantis cages, and objects to 3D print. If you want to get your feet wet with 3D modeling is a good alternative to googlesketchup.


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## hysteresis (Mar 14, 2019)

Id like to try. I am fluent in Solidworks Professional. I should be able to design anything.


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## ohaple (Mar 14, 2019)

Teamonger said:


> I'm a bit late to the party but I am so jealous of your glowforge. Its a dream of mine to get one but it´s likely going to be a few years as a bigger house is far more important (so i can fill it with insects!). There is a FabLab here that has all the fun protoyping tools that you can pay to use but its only open one day a week and is a hassle to get to.
> 
> Your terrariums are so well designed, pretty AND functional! I have only managed functional with the few I created using a 3D printer we had at my previous workplace. I have been using and cleaning those few for almost 2 years now however so they have withstood the test of time. The one try I made using a laser cutter was with wood due to price and did not go the best
> 
> ...


Glowforge is a mixed bag. While I really like using it, it was overhyped and the company is terribly managed. Dan Shapiro, the CEO, is far more interested in success at any price rather than being honest with customers. We ordered September of 2016 when the website said "deliveries beginning December 2016." We didn't receive our unit for nearly two years. He would push the delivery dates by six months each time, claiming unexpected problems. Come to find out, they hadn't even contracted with a manufacturer at the point they had delayed and lied to customers twice. I feel bad for the engineers because they made a really nice project, it was just tainted by the management.

Now that we have our unit, it is missing many of the software features promised in the original advertising, but does everything we need it to do. It is reasonably fast and quiet for hobby use. You will need to vent it outside, and I would not count on the air filter they are working on ever working as advertised. The software is pretty nice to deal with, but the camera alignment has a lot of issues.

Thanks for the compliments, the CNC and laser cutter make this sort of project rather fun.


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## Teamonger (Mar 15, 2019)

@ohaple I believe it, I have been watching Glowforge since it first kickstarted and the delays have been unreasonable. I did a bunch of googling on alternatives and the Muse seems to be the top contender in the sameish price range/niche. I believe the biggest pro vs the Glowforge is that it does not require internet access to work which is a rather terrifying requirement of the Glowforge given how chaotic the company is.

https://fslaser.com/muse


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## ohaple (Mar 15, 2019)

Teamonger said:


> @ohaple I believe it, I have been watching Glowforge since it first kickstarted and the delays have been unreasonable. I did a bunch of googling on alternatives and the Muse seems to be the top contender in the sameish price range/niche. I believe the biggest pro vs the Glowforge is that it does not require internet access to work which is a rather terrifying requirement of the Glowforge given how chaotic the company is.
> 
> https://fslaser.com/muse


When all was said and done, I still think the glowforge (especially at the early order price) is the best value for an all in one solution. The software does a good job and we are able to go from idea to product with almost no prototyping or messed up cuts. The choice chamber I built last week was about 4 hours from conception, design, cutting, and assembling. We like our machine and the build quality and the software. Muse is about 2-3x the price of the Glowforge we got since we got the early pricing. I am sure muse is great too, but have no experience with it.


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## Coyote (Apr 29, 2019)

nice aquarium and mantids set ups, i also own a small aquarium and i really like to create a nice natural looking environment for both aquariums and vivariums.

But for vivariums i struggle to find good plants, where do you buy yours ?


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## ohaple (May 6, 2019)

Coyote said:


> nice aquarium and mantids set ups, i also own a small aquarium and i really like to create a nice natural looking environment for both aquariums and vivariums.
> 
> But for vivariums i struggle to find good plants, where do you buy yours ?


I bought all of my aquarium plants at the local fish store. Always be careful of introducing pests though. I buy tissue cultures when I can.

For terrariums I have always bought my plants from josh's frogs since it has had the selection I wanted and I can usually also combine shipping with feeders.


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