# Spiny flower color changes



## Katie (Sep 11, 2005)

Hey all, I'm back (kinda sorta).  I've had my spiny flower mantids in red, yellow, and green-decorated cups to see if it affects them, and it's starting to at L3. Here's one from the yellow cup:







The red and green cup ones haven't molted yet... I'll post them up when they do.


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## Reeves (Sep 11, 2005)

It's nice to see a fellow hobbyist in my area!


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## Ian (Sep 11, 2005)

wow, nice katie, great contrast between the grren legs, and black/brown body.

Cheers,

Ian


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## Executor of Fruit Flies (Sep 11, 2005)

This probably belongs in my mantis color variation thread, but since this is more specific, I'll post it here.

Ok, so I've been keeping 2 spiny flower mantids with colored flowers. One with rose petals glued to the side of it's container, and 1 with a bunch of pink flowers from some tree.

Before I begin, forgive me for being anal, Katie, but I believe that is at L4. L1 hatchlings are all black, L2 get their first white spots, L3 is when their abdominal spines are first visible, and L4 nymphs' spines and coloration become more prominent.

I've noticed that nymphs will only change color at L4(like you have), but it happens over a span of time, like say a week of color exposure, not between molts. Someone else described this keeping a spiny flower on a rose in the sun. Also, the nymph I was keeping with pink flowers turned VERY pink in it's face, sides of the abdomen, and 2 of the 3 foreleg segments. YAY! No change on the one with rose petals, but to be fair, it's still at L3 and the petals are old.

Also, some nymphs will be more colorful than others, in a plain environment.

Keep us updated on this, because it will verify a theory I have that mantises eat bits of flower and store the pigment in themselves to change color. I came up with this because of a pic I saw of an orchid mantis eating the side of a petal. I also removed the pink mantid from the flowers to see if it will change back to normal. And I plan to buy some yellow, red, and blue flowers to see if they can turn those colors


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## ibanez_freak (Sep 14, 2005)

Hi,

hopefully you don't mind but gonna try this as well. I got yellow, red,purple and blue containers. I think I'm gonna put in a flower beside each of them to see what difference it makes.

Cheers and nice idea Katie!

Cameron.


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## ibanez_freak (Oct 16, 2005)

Hi,

Well, so far, a coloured container hasn't worked.

I think they do need flowers so will tell if I get a better result. The one in the yellow container maybe yellow? Or just white. can't tell. bad eye sight.

Cheers, Cameron.


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## PseudoDave (Oct 17, 2005)

With such variation in the individuals anyway, how can anyone be sure if it is environmental aspects affecting their colour? I think many people have tried this, even if it was only a half-hearted attempt, like dropping a single flower of a particular colour in the enclosure. I personally have never seen anything that may suggest its the environment, but obviously if somebody has a large scale experiment going, even if it were only with three factors and 5 nymphs per factor, then it would give a better result than only with a few nymphs. You could then be sure just by looking at those groups whether or not different stimulus are in play, or if the variation is just the same as the variation in humans and pretty much every other animal on the planet. If you keep an amount of nymphs in the exact same conditions and colours etc, then you will still see much diversity in the colouring of the mantids.


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## Joe (Oct 17, 2005)

All i use is red fake flowers and they turn red almost in one day-one molt, but when they do turn red in one day they only have a light shade of it and can only do this right after a molt. they do not need humidity to change colors. just use the color of your chioce objects for the mantis to perch on. however if you remove all the colors after it changed colors, it will go back to its regular color form( green, white, and pinkish)

Joe


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## ellroy (Oct 18, 2005)

This is a really interesting area and definitely worthy of study. I think a lot more variables need to be considered if the findings are going to be of any value such as temperature, light levels and humidity. Personally I have my doubts about an environmental influence on colour and I'm almost certain colour cannot be injested (sorry executor) and then reproduced following digestion.

I'm planning a mantis research project for my zoology degree and may well look into this,

Good luck with your experiments!

Alan


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## hortus (Oct 18, 2005)

theres alot of weird creatures that do alot of weird stuff so i wouldnt rule anything out . theres more animals than you would think that can change their color due to enviroment

humans even do it to an exstent (tanning) but instead of camoflauge we do it to add protection against the sun in accordance to how much we recieve


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## PseudoDave (Oct 18, 2005)

The pigmentation to avoid uv damage is a different thing to adopting colours from your surroundings. We get tanned and people are different shades because of the sun exposure and because brown's better at protecting us than white. Changing a colour to suit environment would in my view require the animal to 'conciously' (for want of a better word) change to that colour. Cuttle fish, Various Octopus, various lizards etc can do this, but i'm not aware of any mammal that can do it, would be nice though, i'd get one :-D


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## chun (Oct 18, 2005)

don't forget about genetics. Humans are different colour is mainly due to genetics. I would have guessed it would have been the same for mantids.

PS I've even tried blaming my genetics for leaving my homework at home


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## Samzo (Oct 18, 2005)

> PS I've even tried blaming my genetics for leaving my homework at home


lol makes sence


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## hortus (Oct 18, 2005)

lol i was just saying theres alot of weird things out there that do even weirder things.


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