# What do I do if my pupae aren't hatching?



## callisto9 (Nov 30, 2017)

I have a couple of nymphs. I put 3-4 fly pupae in each of their containers, but the pupae still haven't hatched. It's been about 48 hours now and I'm worried 'cause they haven't eaten anything in a few days. Advice?


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## Mystymantis (Nov 30, 2017)

Fly pupa can take different amounts of time to hatch depending on the temperature. I had this problem last winter too with my fly pupa, many of them didn't hatch for a while or didn't ever hatch. But if you raise the temperature you will probably have higher success. You could also try hatching the pupa in a different container, maybe that is warmer, and then transfer them to the mantis cages, though carefully as flies are master escape artists!

How warm are the containers? Are the fly pupa being kept in the refrigerator until they need to be used?


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## callisto9 (Nov 30, 2017)

Mystymantis said:


> Fly pupa can take different amounts of time to hatch depending on the temperature. I had this problem last winter too with my fly pupa, many of them didn't hatch for a while or didn't ever hatch. But if you raise the temperature you will probably have higher success. You could also try hatching the pupa in a different container, maybe that is warmer, and then transfer them to the mantis cages, though carefully as flies are master escape artists!
> 
> How warm are the containers? Are the fly pupa being kept in the refrigerator until they need to be used?


Well, I put 3-4 pupae in each mantid container. The house is at 70 degrees all the time.

I took a bunch more and put them in a separate container tonight and I can put that wherever. The rest of them are in the fridge. 

I'm just so worried, as they haven't had anything to eat for 48 hours now. Should I go and try and get them some tiny crickets?


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## Mystymantis (Dec 1, 2017)

callisto9 said:


> Well, I put 3-4 pupae in each mantid container. The house is at 70 degrees all the time.
> 
> I took a bunch more and put them in a separate container tonight and I can put that wherever. The rest of them are in the fridge.
> 
> I'm just so worried, as they haven't had anything to eat for 48 hours now. Should I go and try and get them some tiny crickets?


Your mantises should be fine, they can go a few days without eating. In the wild they don't eat every day either. At 70 degrees the pupa should hatch in a few days. Though I find house fly pupa sometimes don't hatch at all or take longer then you would think.

What size are the mantises? If they are small enough you could try Hydei flies which are easy to culture. They are essentially larger fruit flies. But they won't work if your mantises are too large.

Also I would get some tiny crickets (also called pinhead crickets) just in case your fly pupa don't hatch.

Have any of the fly pupa hatched yet?

Good luck!


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## callisto9 (Dec 1, 2017)

No pupae have hatched yet. It will be 72 hours tonight. I'm going to go in search of mini crickets this evening. There's no other live prey I can buy anywhere here except crickets.

The mantids are about the size of a dime. Not sure of instar, but they are young and small.


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## Connor (Dec 1, 2017)

cricket hatchlings should work for food. If worst comes to worst you can always keep them sustained on banana and honey until you get new feeders.


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## callisto9 (Dec 1, 2017)

I got five tiny crickets this evening, but I lost one and two of them appear... near death? I don't. I did put one moving tiny cricket in each of the mantid's cups. They haven't chased it down yet. But, I did see one of them drink from a water droplet and it was freaking CUTE.  

No hatched fly pupae yet. 

Connor, how would I feed them banana and honey? On a tiny toothpick or something?


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## Connor (Dec 1, 2017)

Yeah You can take a piece of banana or a dip of honey, put it on the end of a toothpick and put it up to the mantis's mouth.


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## callisto9 (Dec 1, 2017)

Well, one of the mantids got his cricket! Woot!


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## callisto9 (Dec 2, 2017)

Just cleaned out the mantid cups. And no hatched pupae. Put everything back together and put the 3-4 pupae back in each of the containers. I look over 20 mins. later and there are two flies on the top! Finally! And Thing 1 just caught one.

*whew* I was getting worried!


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## Mystymantis (Dec 3, 2017)

Awesome! Glad the flies hatched finally. and it looks like that one nymph is enjoying that cricket!


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## callisto9 (Dec 4, 2017)

It's taking about 4-5 days for the pupae to hatch, for anyone else who might have this problem. I did put them in the freezer for 60 seconds and everyone got flies tonight. Bruce (our adult Chinese female) already ate all hers.


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## Connor (Dec 4, 2017)

Glad to hear they are all getting fed!


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## callisto9 (Dec 5, 2017)

I've come to realize that feeding flies is really annoying. I can't take my mantids out and handle them while there are live flies in there....because flies *fly*.

First world mantis owner problems, I know.


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## Krissim Klaw (Dec 7, 2017)

callisto9 said:


> I've come to realize that feeding flies is really annoying. I can't take my mantids out and handle them while there are live flies in there....because flies *fly*.
> 
> First world mantis owner problems, I know.


Since I like to feed my flies before feeding anyways I find it is helpful just to hatch the flies in a separate cage and put a fly or two in when I want to feed. If you shine a light where the mantis is sitting, the flies usually fly there and the mantises tend to catch them within minutes. Then you don't have to worry about having a bunch of loose flies puttering around when you want to take your mantises out later.


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## Ocelotbren (Dec 10, 2017)

As far as hatch time, I started recording the number of days for my flies to hatch so I have a good reference in the future.  House flies do seem to take longer than blue bottles.  The time of year is also relevant because in the summer they get close to hatching while in transit so sometimes they hatch within a day, or worse, while in transit.  In winter, they take more time to hatch after arrival.  I hatch a bunch at once in a container and use my estimated hatch times to know when to start another container.

House fly pupae don't last as long in the fridge either.  Blue bottles are just easier all around - last longer in the fridge, seem to be hardier, have a better hatch rate and live longer once hatched.

I like numbers though and enjoy keeping track of this stuff; you probably don't have to go into this much detail to have success.


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## callisto9 (Dec 11, 2017)

This is great info to have - not too much info at all! Thank you. I'm going to need to keep track of this as well, as I don't want my mantids to starve  

Thanks for the tips on the blue bottle flies - that's what I'll get next time around.


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## Ocelotbren (Dec 11, 2017)

No problem!  I've come to learn that using blue bottles as soon as the nymphs are big enough to handle them is easier than stepping them up through stable flies and house flies, if possible.


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## callisto9 (Dec 14, 2017)

I'm on batch two of the houseflies and they take at least four days to hatch once out of the fridge.


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## Ocelotbren (Dec 14, 2017)

Yeah, sounds similar to my experience.  Always a couple days longer than the blue bottles.


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## Connor (Dec 14, 2017)

Yeah my houseflies lately have been taking FOREVER.


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## callisto9 (Jan 3, 2018)

So batch two (from the same original container) never hatched. I had about 50 pupae in there. Any idea why this might have happened?


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## CosbyArt (Jan 3, 2018)

callisto9 said:


> So batch two (from the same original container) never hatched. I had about 50 pupae in there. Any idea why this might have happened?


Pupae are only good for 2-3 weeks typically even if stored properly in a refrigerator, before their hatch/emergence rate quickly drops to zero. If the pupae were older stock, then they have even less time left.


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## callisto9 (Jan 4, 2018)

Well that explains it! Thanks for the info Cosby.


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## CosbyArt (Jan 5, 2018)

@callisto9 Your welcome, I thought it would make things simpler. That is the downside of pupae for sure though, pupae can not be stockpiled for long.


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## callisto9 (Jan 5, 2018)

It was my first time ordering them, so I was definitely disappointed. I can't get anything here in winter to feed the mantids besides crickets.


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## Ocelotbren (Jan 5, 2018)

Yeah, I order pupae through the winter and I don't have issues with shipping them in the cold, but I do have issues with how expensive it is to ship a couple dollars worth of pupae!  But unfortunately it's my best option.  I only have a few mantids so I don't buy bulk feeders or anything, so the shipping cost always exceeds the cost of the actual pupae.  I supplement with crickets sometimes, especially for larger species, but not consistently.  In the summer, I used wild feeders when possible and bought pupae online occasionally as a backup.


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## callisto9 (Jan 5, 2018)

I had two very small mantids and the crickets were too big for them. There is nothing I can get locally that's any smaller. We will use wild feeders when the temps get warmer, but that's several months off.


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