# NO MORE CRICKETS!



## Psychobunny (Feb 1, 2012)

In the past week, I have had 3 unusual deaths of subadult mantids (not just one species).

I find them laying on the floor, they a black almost all over, including black eyes.

Also suspect, there is always brown vomit stains on the walls.

This is always after being feed crickets which looked perfectly healthy at the time.

I usually find a whole dead cricket in the container along with the dead mantis.

Every day when I check my crick tub, I see dozens of dead ones, which I quickly remove.

I bought 500 cricks from Ghan's only 3 days ago, and now they are almost all dead!!!

I have also tried cricks from other farms, same thing!!

When they say it has been proven that the cricket virus does not effect your pets, do they

include mantids in that list?

I KNOW it HAS to be the cricks that is killing my mantids!

There is simply no other explaination.

I have a dubia colony started (not there yet) and also use flies.

Never any problems with those.

All 3 mantids had crickets the day before they simply dropped dead and turned black!!

So, I am discontinuing crickets, completely!!!

I am really upset over this. One of the dead was a really nice and healthy female shield.

Yesterday, she was healty and climbing around on me.

Today, I find her dead, turned black, and on the floor (obviously just dropped dead on the spot).

I dont want to alarm anyone, but if you read my posts, you know how well I care for my mantids.

But there is something very wrong here.

Is anyone at all noticing a high mortality in subadults fed on crickets?

P.S. to be more clear, 2 of the 3 dead were shields and the other a lineola.

Other species are doing fine on the cricks.

I am wondering if certain species of mantids are suseptible to the cricket virus and other's are not!!!


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## agent A (Feb 1, 2012)

Thanx for telling me this

All my subadult hierodula and my adult popa ate crix last night

I get crix from petsmart and have no problem

I find feeding crix fish flakes makes them healthier for my toads so I assume it applies to mantises but I could be wrong

I think if u can start a breeding colony of crix in a sterile environment u will be safe from the virus, but I am getting ready to start a lobster roach colony just in case.. Thanx for sharing


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## Bryce08 (Feb 1, 2012)

I noticed alot of the crickets I was getting were dying...I stopped and switched to flies only...my mantids have been fine...2 seperate friends, have had 3 mantids die recently, this week...out of nowhere...perfect everything...but they were feeding using crickets, so im glad i stopped using them. I dont know if its coincidence or not but yes i would be leery.


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## massaman (Feb 1, 2012)

I would never buy that many crickets at one time online or anywhere period as being there is pet stores in my area that sell them in two sizes and they are cheap so if you can get them cheaper in a pet store it would help but i did get them in bulk before and the smell was also as bad as them dying in mass numbers so getting smaller numbers and working like that is the key!I have no problem feeding crickets to mine and have not had many deaths from eating them either!


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## sinensispsyched (Feb 1, 2012)

A lot of my crickets have been dying: 15 in 2 days, however, I believe it's my fault for improper care. I fed my chinese from L3 to adult on crix, as well as feeding my blue flash and buds from L3 to present without any problems.


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## Precarious (Feb 1, 2012)

I generally buy only 50 at a time from the local pet store at $.10 each. Way overpriced, I know, but they do tend to die off really fast. Probably because I keep groups in deli cups which isn't enough space. I don't like crickets but there is no viable replacement in my opinion. Roaches are too big for what I keep and a pain to maintain.

There are some species more susceptible to parasites carried by crickets, Orchids for instance. But that is a slow process. Your sudden deaths are not likely caused by crickets. At least I've never experienced that. I have had some vomit and die over weeks or months that others tell me was caused by crickets, but then I've also had that happen to some that never ate a cricket.

There is a lot of speculation but very little solid information.

What I can tell you for sure is that if by "shield" you mean "Rhombodra" dropping dead out of the blue is not uncommon. It happens.


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## hibiscusmile (Feb 1, 2012)

I buy mine from .... well u guys know, I find ghanns die fast sometimes, but a problem with a lot of crickets are people feed them carrots, this seems to be a bad thing, whenever I get mine, I ask for taters in with them, no carrots.


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## agent A (Feb 1, 2012)

I have no probs using carrots


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## meaganelise9 (Feb 1, 2012)

Aw.. I'm sorry to hear that, Stanley. That really sucks. Certainly good to know. I'm very fortunate to have a small, locally owned reptile store nearby that does a wonderful job of caring for their animals, invertebrates included. I quickly learned to buy from them over the big chain pet stores because their crickets aren't half dead and starving when I get them home. I should find out where he gets his.


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## Newflvr (Feb 1, 2012)

I go thru about 2 thousands crickets a month, I've found that 72-74 degrees has worked best for me. I feed them Idaho potatoes,fish flakes and use water crystals. Cleaning out shed skins, dead bodies and food waste is a must. I do have some die before being food but a small amount.


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## meaganelise9 (Feb 1, 2012)

Jeez, that's a lot. I buy maybe 20 at a time..


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## Newflvr (Feb 1, 2012)

I feed about 500 tarantulas and 40 or so mantids, Also have to add the fruit flies , house flies and BB. Add some chocolate to the mix and it sounds like a party


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## sporeworld (Feb 1, 2012)

Yeah - I had problems that SEEMED to be related to carrots. The vomit is a big warning sign (IMO). And you need to clean that up pronto. I quaranteen any seen acting wierd or vomitting, and usually put them on a water-only fast for a day or so.


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## sporeworld (Feb 1, 2012)

Newflvr said:


> I feed about 500 tarantulas and 40 or so mantids, Also have to add the fruit flies , house flies and BB. Add some chocolate to the mix and it sounds like a party


Fascinating. I've watched crickets eat dead flies in the mantid enclosures, and thought about feeding excess flies (frozen alive) to crickets intentionally. Nice to hear someone else already doing it.


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## meaganelise9 (Feb 1, 2012)

Have you been feeding the crickets anything different than usual?


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## hibiscusmile (Feb 1, 2012)

carrots is a no no, and I will tell you all again, buy your crickets from www.rainbowmealworm.com They do not die, I rarely ever had a dead cricket even in shiping box, unless you guys don't want to believe me.... go head, buy your nasty old crickets that die and stink, mine do not!!!!!!!!! really, go ck my post!


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## Precarious (Feb 1, 2012)

hibiscusmile said:


> carrots is a no no, and I will tell you all again, buy your crickets from www.rainbowmealworm.com They do not die, I rarely ever had a dead cricket even in shiping box, unless you guys don't want to believe me.... go head, buy your nasty old crickets that die and stink, mine do not!!!!!!!!! really, go ck my post!


Rebecca is lying! It's a trick. Go ahead and try to go to "www.rainbowmealworm.com"...

It doesn't exist!

Try this instead:

http://www.rainbowmealworms.net/ :lol:


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## massaman (Feb 1, 2012)

I dont buy online no more I use my credit cart to buy my crickets and I can choose how many dozens I want to buy and get them right there at the store counted and bagged and once I get them I use them and put the rest in their enclosures till its time to give them their coupe de grace!


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## massaman (Feb 1, 2012)

well besides that site I think only deals with mealworms and not crickets from what I seen!


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## sporeworld (Feb 2, 2012)

Does anyone refridgerate crickets...?


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## Rick (Feb 2, 2012)

I've had maybe two issues over the years involving crickets. Look at your cricket husbandry techniques and you will likely find your problem.


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## Psychobunny (Feb 2, 2012)

Rick,

I keep my cricks in a large tub with lots of egg cartons, I use Premium cricket chow and Repasey gel water stuff.

I give them potatoes and washed lettuse. They have a automatic waterer with a spong in it so they dont drown.

Their tub is on UTH regulated to 75F.

I keep their tub clean.

Now tell me, what is wrong with any of that!

I have had lots of mantids die on me for no apparent reason, but they do not go from healthy to dead and black

in a matter of hours.

This, with the brown vomit, black eyes, etc., indicates to me that they ingested something toxic to them!!

What do you see in my technique that would make my cricks toxic?

I have been keeping cricks for many years, back to the 70's when I had a reptile collection and the only problem

I ever had was that they stink!!!


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## Psychobunny (Feb 2, 2012)

Precarious said:


> I generally buy only 50 at a time from the local pet store at $.10 each. Way overpriced, I know, but they do tend to die off really fast. Probably because I keep groups in deli cups which isn't enough space. I don't like crickets but there is no viable replacement in my opinion. Roaches are too big for what I keep and a pain to maintain.
> 
> There are some species more susceptible to parasites carried by crickets, Orchids for instance. But that is a slow process. Your sudden deaths are not likely caused by crickets. At least I've never experienced that. I have had some vomit and die over weeks or months that others tell me was caused by crickets, but then I've also had that happen to some that never ate a cricket.
> 
> ...


Yes, I'm sorry, I ment Rhombo's.

When you say, it happens, do you mean they can simply turn black and drop dead (dont forget the brown vomit)?


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## Psychobunny (Feb 2, 2012)

meaganelise9 said:


> Aw.. I'm sorry to hear that, Stanley. That really sucks. Certainly good to know. I'm very fortunate to have a small, locally owned reptile store nearby that does a wonderful job of caring for their animals, invertebrates included. I quickly learned to buy from them over the big chain pet stores because their crickets aren't half dead and starving when I get them home. I should find out where he gets his.


Thanks  

I am not so lucky. The only pet store we have is Petstupid, and they are less then worthless.

They seldom have cricks. And their mealies are alway dried up and turning into beatles :\

I have no choice but to buy them online, and I have tried all the big breeders.


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## Psychobunny (Feb 2, 2012)

Newflvr said:


> I go thru about 2 thousands crickets a month, I've found that 72-74 degrees has worked best for me. I feed them Idaho potatoes,fish flakes and use water crystals. Cleaning out shed skins, dead bodies and food waste is a must. I do have some die before being food but a small amount.


I do the same.

I have my crick tub on a heater at 75F, which seems to work for them.

My dubia's will survive at 75F, but 90F is the magic number for them, they breed like crazy at that temp.

When I turn the temp down, they stop breeding. I can control the colony that way.


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## hibiscusmile (Feb 2, 2012)

I dont heat my tub, when I got crics at grubco and ghanns and fluker, they all had die offs and weekly they would just drop dead, all sizes, these crickets do not die off, been purchasing them for about a year, In that time I have had maybe 2 or 3 just die, they are in my Bugatorium with the mantis and they do not smell, due to no die offs, the others I kept in my small feeder room, they always stank. So go head, buy your dead smelly ol cricks but save yourself the trouble and head ache, just send me the money instead.... :tt2:


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## Psychobunny (Feb 2, 2012)

hibiscusmile said:


> I buy mine from .... well u guys know, I find ghanns die fast sometimes, but a problem with a lot of crickets are people feed them carrots, this seems to be a bad thing, whenever I get mine, I ask for taters in with them, no carrots.


I have not had a problem with carrots, but I very seldom use them. I mostly go with potato slices and lettuce.

I wash the lettuse because they often spray them.


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## Psychobunny (Feb 2, 2012)

hibiscusmile said:


> I dont heat my tub, when I got crics at grubco and ghanns and fluker, they all had die offs and weekly they would just drop dead, all sizes, these crickets do not die off, been purchasing them for about a year, In that time I have had maybe 2 or 3 just die, they are in my Bugatorium with the mantis and they do not smell, due to no die offs, the others I kept in my small feeder room, they always stank. So go head, buy your dead smelly ol cricks but save yourself the trouble and head ache, just send me the money instead.... :tt2:


Hmmm! I dont understand your post at all!! Is it just me? I read it 3 times and still dont know what you are trying to say!! :huh:


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## Precarious (Feb 2, 2012)

Psychobunny said:


> Yes, I'm sorry, I ment Rhombo's.
> 
> When you say, it happens, do you mean they can simply turn black and drop dead (dont forget the brown vomit)?


I've only kept one generation of Rhombodera cf. valida so I am by no means an expert on Rhombodera species, but from what I've been told by experienced keepers they are very fragile and prone to looking great one day and being dead the next. I don't know that vomiting is necessarily always a part of that since it can happen very fast.



Psychobunny said:


> In the past week, I have had 3 unusual deaths of subadult mantids (not just one species).
> 
> I find them laying on the floor, they a black almost all over, including black eyes.
> 
> ...


Based on what you wrote in the original post you suggest it happens fast. That's why I pointed this out. If you are talking about gut rot, which takes weeks or months, then we're talking about something else. It didn't seem so based on the above statements. When a mantis has that sickness they vomit everything they eat. You know they have it because it really smells. You didn't mention anything about stinky vomit, just suspected brown spots, and gut rot is mainly the illness others blame on crickets.

I can't say anything about your source for these crickets but I have never had a mantis eat a cricket and then just die. I have had a mantis just up and die for no identifiable reason. I'm not saying it wasn't crickets in your case. I'm just relaying my experience.


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## meaganelise9 (Feb 2, 2012)

Are you feeding them nonorganic produce? Just a thought. I always feed my mantids only organic bananas, just in case.


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## Psychobunny (Feb 2, 2012)

Precarious said:


> I've only kept one generation of Rhombodera cf. valida so I am by no means an expert on Rhombodera species, but from what I've been told by experienced keepers they are very fragile and prone to looking great one day and being dead the next. I don't know that vomiting is necessarily always a part of that since it can happen very fast.
> 
> Based on what you wrote in the original post you suggest it happens fast. That's why I pointed this out. If you are talking about gut rot, which takes weeks or months, then we're talking about something else. It didn't seem so based on the above statements. When a mantis has that sickness they vomit everything they eat. You know they have it because it really smells. You didn't mention anything about stinky vomit, just suspected brown spots, and gut rot is mainly the illness others blame on crickets.
> 
> I can't say anything about your source for these crickets but I have never had a mantis eat a cricket and then just die. I have had a mantis just up and die for no identifiable reason. I'm not saying it wasn't crickets in your case. I'm just relaying my experience.


Maybe I am jumping the gun on blaming the cricks, after all, I was really upset when I posted, so it's easy to let your emotions

take control. No, I have no direct evidence it was the crick that did it, and I did not know this specices was so fragile.

No, there was no odor with the vomit, it was dark brown, and smeared all over the inside wall and lid.

I had put 2 cricks in his cage for dinner yesterday. Then I found him dead the next morning. One crick was also

dead, and the other was gone and must have been eaten.

I know you have way more experience and know this species much better then I do, so what you posted is very inlightening.

Grant you, the whole thing may just be a coincidence!!

But I can tell you the cricks I have been getting lately have an abnormal mortality rate, and it does not matter with of the top

crick farms I buy from.

On the other hand, I have to date seen no evidence or scientific data showing that infected cricks are harmless to your pets.

Those vendors who insist this is true, do not provide links to scientific studies to support their claims.


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## gripen (Feb 2, 2012)

Psychobunny said:


> Rick,
> 
> I keep my cricks in a large tub with lots of egg cartons, I use Premium cricket chow and Repasey gel water stuff.
> 
> ...


i have had this happen with mantids as well. it means the humidity is WAY to high.


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## bobericc (Feb 2, 2012)

Personally the ” black death” or mad cricket disease seems to be carried and contracted through crickets that have been exposed themselves or poorly kept. I had a couple rhombodera and male creo die off from what seem to be the usual case, total discoloration, and horrid smell in a day. if they are close to, molting time, or freshly molted, its a bad idea to use crix as your choice of feeder as that is when I recognize the difference in behavior the most. I do believe some hardy species are just resilient to the disease though (hierodula, heterochaeta, phyllocrania) that I have never witnessed it with..


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## hibiscusmile (Feb 2, 2012)

humm, what did u not understand? I dont understand either? :1eye:


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## dragon (Feb 2, 2012)

Sporeworld said:


> Does anyone refridgerate crickets...?


IME, the brown house crickets have very little cold tolerance. being refrigerated is enough to kill them.


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## Psychobunny (Feb 2, 2012)

hibiscusmile said:


> humm, what did u not understand? I dont understand either? :1eye:


LOL!! that's okay, it doesnt matter now that I have consumed almost a whole bottle of merlot, none

of these posts make any sense, including my own! inch:


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## patrickfraser (Feb 2, 2012)

Salut! I have a vodka/cran waiting for me when I get out of work. Once that's down everything will start making more sense. I don't use crickets...PERIOD! I heard way too many things about them. That made my mind up on Dubias. Crickets??? Just say no!


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## sinensispsyched (Feb 2, 2012)

Maybe the crix died from one bottle of merlot too much? Then the shields got tipsy and didn't wake up!(jk)


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## Psychobunny (Feb 2, 2012)

Ha! LOL!! maybe merlot will cure the virus!!??

I know it makes me feel better!!


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## sporeworld (Feb 2, 2012)

I posted quite a while back about splatter on the back wall behind my enclosures. Thought it might be spray from flies being violently snapped out of the air (which it MAY have been). But a few months back, I started watching my Idolos more carefully, and I saw them occassionally spritz fluid from their backsides - presumably some kind of waste. But it looked just like when big cats spray urine to mark their territory. Maybe all mantids do this (God knows I'm no entomologist). But it did explain a few things. And since I've never SEEN one of my mantids puke personally, for all I know, it could have been coming out the other end! Euchk! Anyone elese experience this..?


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## warpdrive (Feb 2, 2012)

Sporeworld said:


> Does anyone refridgerate crickets...?


OMFingG...I'll be back late tonight to solve her problem.

Oh, and no, do not keep them in the fridge.

Harry


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## hibiscusmile (Feb 2, 2012)

I never seen it either, we must be special!


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## Precarious (Feb 2, 2012)

Sporeworld said:


> I posted quite a while back about splatter on the back wall behind my enclosures. Thought it might be spray from flies being violently snapped out of the air (which it MAY have been). But a few months back, I started watching my Idolos more carefully, and I saw them occassionally spritz fluid from their backsides - presumably some kind of waste. But it looked just like when big cats spray urine to mark their territory. Maybe all mantids do this (God knows I'm no entomologist). But it did explain a few things. And since I've never SEEN one of my mantids puke personally, for all I know, it could have been coming out the other end! Euchk! Anyone elese experience this..?


Yup, I've seen the Hershey squirts. Mainly after I feed them Mexican food. But seriously, yes. Some other species do it too, but not all.


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## warpdrive (Feb 3, 2012)

Precarious said:


> Yup, I've seen the Hershey squirts. Mainly after I feed them Mexican food. But seriously, yes. Some other species do it too, but not all.


LOL-I've seen both too.

But the real issue is diet or you are not washing you're veggies enough and the pesticide is killing your crickets.

Carrots are a no no for mantids, and Ghann's and almost every other place feeds carrots.

I don't think ghanns ever had the cricket virus issue, but did do a major clean up and had another feeder place ship that week or two during that time.

I really want to know more about the care and diet first but poor cleaning and diet...and poor keepers or containers with too little ventilation is what i bet.

I've seen it before on other forums....

500 crickets...check.

Small tub/fish tank/garbage can....check

Minimal or no ventilation....check

Decaying food and way too much stinky poop on bottom...check

Forget to wash greens....ooops

What could go wrong?

On the UK forum, some people won't even sell to you if you are going to feed crickets. But it is all about the care you are giving them.

I've fed crickets to almost every leaf and many flower mantids with out issue. I've even posted photos here of almost everything I've had and all lived long lives.

Harry


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## sporeworld (Feb 3, 2012)

That's kinda what I thought. I'm almost certain that Gongy's must do it, too. I first discovered the... ahem.. "results" of this squirting action when I only had Gongy's.

As for the crickets, I was just curious. So many other insects can be extended by keeping them cold - thought maybe someone had done it with crix.


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## warpdrive (Feb 3, 2012)

I'm sorry I missed how you took care of your crickets.

I'm not saying It's your fault. All farms have had issues and I'm sure i must be mistaken about ghanns too. Yet I've never had an issue.

This cricket virus is an old issue that could be redirecting again. I just bounce around and buy from anyone with a good deal, ghanns included, and have been lucky to never been hit yet.

But I also never feed off anything until two days to always make sure they are healthy and full of my food.


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## Psychobunny (Feb 3, 2012)

gripen said:


> i have had this happen with mantids as well. it means the humidity is WAY to high.


I am in process of checking into this and have been doing tons of research.

I have 4 of those plastic hygrometers that are highly rated and cheap.

However, I have seen that these devices, and all the other inexpensive plastic

ones are not accurate. In fact, when compaired to a NIST certified and expensive

hygrometer, they are WAY off!! sometimes more then 100% off!!

In other words, they are all worthless unless they can be calibrated and annualy

NIST certified!!!!

If you want a hygrometer that is accurate, you will need to bite the bullet and spend

the money.

After doing some study, I finally decided to buy one of these;

*http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NI7C0A/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details*

You can calibrate it yourself, of sign up for the annual calibration program, send it back

every year, and have it professionaly calibrated with a NIST certificate.

You get what you pay for, and at least you will know FOR SURE which hygrometer in the house

is reading the CORRECT RH!!


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## patrickfraser (Feb 3, 2012)

That's a pricey piece of equipment. I just rely on the readout on my humidifier and have no probs. Good luck on getting your humidity under control.


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## Psychobunny (Feb 3, 2012)

patrickfraser said:


> That's a pricey piece of equipment. I just rely on the readout on my humidifier and have no probs. Good luck on getting your humidity under control.


Thanks.

You dont have to spend this much to get a good calibratible, certified hygrometer. I just happen to like the looks of this one


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## Introvertebrate (Feb 3, 2012)

Ghann's should be switching to Gryllus assimilis soon:



> When will Ghann's have the "new cricket" (Gryllus assimilis)?
> 
> UPDATED 9/14/11 - Our Gryllus assimilis are thriving just fine, but building up the colony to commercial sales numbers is a slow process. We are now estimating that we will be able to begin shipping Gryllus assimilis sometime shortly after the first the year (*maybe Feb 2012*). Watch closely - we will make an announcement when we have quantities ready to ship!
> 
> 7/13/11 - We're happy to announce that we have just been granted permits by the USDA to LEGALLY produce the new VIRUS RESISTANT cricket that everyone is talking about, and TODAY we received our initial breeding stock - our "Adams &amp; Eves"! The species is Gryllus assimilis (commonly called the Jamaican Field Cricket), and it's VERY similar to the standard Acheta domesticus that we all know &amp; love. The adults get a little larger and are a little darker in color, but the MAJOR difference is... the deadly cricket virus that kills Achetas does NOT affect Gryllus assimilis!


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## gripen (Feb 3, 2012)

Psychobunny said:


> I am in process of checking into this and have been doing tons of research.
> 
> I have 4 of those plastic hygrometers that are highly rated and cheap.
> 
> ...


yeah i know where to get a good hydrometer  all im saying is 50% or less humidity is fine for ever species i have ever had. if it gets above that problems start to happen.


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## sinensispsyched (Feb 3, 2012)

About the squirting: I had my young chinese on the edge of my laptop while I was on this website, and he did it right across the screen!

As for puking, I was allowing my chinese to drink when he puked on my finger. YYYUUUCCCKKK! It smelled terrible!


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## GreenOasis (Feb 3, 2012)

It's "hygrometer" when you're checking humidity on it, btw.  

I had serious aversions to using crickets back when I first got into mantids, too...and heard about the "no-no" faux pas of feeding carrots to feeders (such as mealworms), but I am here to tell you that the fault with feeders lies in the diet/care of them, but has NOTHING to do with carrots, per se...it also has to do with where you are getting them from (i.e. the diet they were getting prior to arriving to YOU). Getting crickets from a source that only feeds them potatoes is a guaranteed death sentence....both for the cricket involved and the mantid being fed to. Often crickets will ARRIVE with potatoes, but this is usually just for transit, temporarily, it is NOT meant to be their daily diet all the time!

Look into the data and you will find that potatoes are usually the suspect item when "potato salad goes bad", and hubby kindly advised me as to why, since he had his food-handlers permit &amp; they are required to take a test for that: Potatoes can harbor all kinds of bacteria in them, including botulism, whether fresh or cooked, if they are allowed to sit &amp; rot for any period of time. The skin protects them somewhat...until they are cut open &amp; exposed.

As soon as I get my crickets, I remove the potato from them, and if I can't give them "Bug Burger", water gel, or roach chow right away, I give them carrot until I can get to them. My "homegrown" mealworms always get carrots &amp; lay in a nice bed of organic wheat bran/organic oat meal to feed on. They don't turn black &amp; die. The crickets only die off a bit when I initially get them (because they are weak from the temporary potato diet &amp; stress of being bounced around in a truck for a day and a half.) After the initial die off of a few dozen crickets (out of a box of 1000), rarely any more deaths occur.

Rebecca, I'm sorry, but I find it very hard to believe that when you get your crickets shipped to you, that there are NO dead crickets in the box...it just doesn't happen.

So, folks, in my humble opinion, carrots have NOTHING to do with the quality of your feeder...Potatoes are worse...cut up old, rotten potatoes = death.

Whenever I can get my stupid hosting service software to cooperate, I will be listing pre-gutloaded crickets for sale, as I no longer believe that crickets are the devil's playthings.  They will be fed roach chow, bug burger, water crystals/hydroload, carrots and honey.

BTW, brown stains on the wall are usually ejected waste water. (Rather like in the human world....eww.) I've heard that some species will do this if they are being kept too moist. I know that H. multispina does this ALL the time, no matter the humidity. And it does get rather stinky if you don't keep them clean. Be more concerned if you see black "goo".

Creobroters are particularly susceptible to "black rot" of the exo, often starting around their mouths...from too high of humidity. This usually happens with older adults, but sometimes with nymphs that have been kept too moist for too long. Stating this from experience.

Sorry, I haven't got much time to be thorough in my explanations...time to start dinner!...but just thought I would share my thoughts/experiences!


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## Newflvr (Feb 3, 2012)

Psychobunny said:


> I do the same.
> 
> I have my crick tub on a heater at 75F, which seems to work for them.
> 
> ...


In my opinion temp sounds good, large tub with good ventilation- good. I would play with the food variable = no lettuce, see what changes etc. Just change 1 thing at a time to see if that's it or not. Fingers crossed Good Luck


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## agent A (Feb 3, 2012)

My crix do fine, a few stiff dead bodies once in a while but most of my crix deaths r from predation and mismolts


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## sporeworld (Feb 3, 2012)

Concerning humidity and temp gauges, once I got past 15 tanks, I reorganized. I found $7 Taylor brand gauges and bought them in bulk. Once a month or so, I collect them all and put them in the same enclosure for a day or so, and make sure they read abooooooout the same (seldom _exactly_ the same). Close enough to trust their relative accuracy.


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## Psychobunny (Feb 4, 2012)

gripen said:


> yeah i know where to get a good hydrometer  all im saying is 50% or less humidity is fine for ever species i have ever had. if it gets above that problems start to happen.


I agree. I keep my rooms at 50% all the time


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## Psychobunny (Feb 4, 2012)

agent A said:


> My crix do fine, a few stiff dead bodies once in a while but most of my crix deaths r from predation and mismolts


Where are you getting your cricks from?


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## Psychobunny (Feb 4, 2012)

Newflvr said:


> In my opinion temp sounds good, large tub with good ventilation- good. I would play with the food variable = no lettuce, see what changes etc. Just change 1 thing at a time to see if that's it or not. Fingers crossed Good Luck


Thanks, I am doing just that.

I am expecting a new batch of 200 cricks from Premium Crickets and also bought a pound of their crick chow.

I am washing my tub out with hot soapy water with a little bleach.

I have also disscontinued the lettuse, it is not organicly grown, and may be loaded with chemicals which may be

bad for cricks but harmless to humans.

I also change the egg cartons regularly because they get pretty nasty!!


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## Psychobunny (Feb 4, 2012)

GreenOasis said:


> It's "hygrometer" when you're checking humidity on it, btw.
> 
> I had serious aversions to using crickets back when I first got into mantids, too...and heard about the "no-no" faux pas of feeding carrots to feeders (such as mealworms), but I am here to tell you that the fault with feeders lies in the diet/care of them, but has NOTHING to do with carrots, per se...it also has to do with where you are getting them from (i.e. the diet they were getting prior to arriving to YOU). Getting crickets from a source that only feeds them potatoes is a guaranteed death sentence....both for the cricket involved and the mantid being fed to. Often crickets will ARRIVE with potatoes, but this is usually just for transit, temporarily, it is NOT meant to be their daily diet all the time!
> 
> ...


I agree with you, NO dead cricks on arrival is a little far fetched (crick farm must be next door, right!!)

Premium Crickets says they feed their cricks with the same chow I am buying for them.

I have had mixed luck with all the big crick farms, but there are always dead ones in the box regardless of weather

or shipping method.


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## twolfe (Feb 4, 2012)

Since my last two red-eyed tree frogs died prematurely, I haven't bought any crickets. When I did buy them, I often ordered them in large quantities (500 - 1000) and kept them alive for a long time. I fed them lettuce, carrots, potatoes and sometimes commercial cricket food. Usually the food was all eaten before it got moldy, but if not, I would replace it. The crickets that were in the terrarium and placed in their for food, always had access to the water that the frogs used. Some of them would drown in the water container. Others were eaten by the frogs. But many that started (first as 1/8" and then 1/4" would grow to adults and have to be removed.

I rarely feed my mantids crickets. So, I have limited experiences to share. I bought some "small crickets" from a local pet store in the fall, and some of the "small" crickets were over an inch long, and too big for my frogs. I gave a couple to my adult female Blue Flash and Orchid. About 3 - 4 days later, my Orchid developed a black spot on one of her front raptorial legs. It probably wasn't related. My Blue Flash lived a long life and just died this morning. She must have been about a year old.

I read from a couple of sources to never feed crickets to b. Mendicas. One site even said that it would make them infertile. But there was no explanation or scientific data to back it up. I never fed crickets to my b. Mendicas. And I've been fortunate that the 11th ooth laid by one female (the 9th to hatch as two didn't hatch) hatched for me yesterday. Another female that was raised under identical conditions and mated with two different males produced infertile ooths. She was never fed crickets.



GreenOasis said:


> Rebecca, I'm sorry, but I find it very hard to believe that when you get your crickets shipped to you, that there are NO dead crickets in the box...it just doesn't happen.


Carey, I raised red-eyed tree frogs for the past three years. I often ordered crickets from lll.reptile. Their price on their website includes FedEx overnight shipping. I ordered the 1/4" size for my frogs. Since they were shipped overnight, I never found any dead ones from their cricket farm. If any died in transit, then the others had to eat them (including all the parts). I always had dead ones from other places that shipped them 2 - 3 days.


Sporeworld said:


> I posted quite a while back about splatter on the back wall behind my enclosures. Thought it might be spray from flies being violently snapped out of the air (which it MAY have been). But a few months back, I started watching my Idolos more carefully, and I saw them occassionally spritz fluid from their backsides - presumably some kind of waste. But it looked just like when big cats spray urine to mark their territory. Maybe all mantids do this (God knows I'm no entomologist). But it did explain a few things. And since I've never SEEN one of my mantids puke personally, for all I know, it could have been coming out the other end! Euchk! Anyone elese experience this..?


I have only noticed the black spatter with my Idolos and Orchids, and it doesn't happen that often. Even if I feed flies from the same container, usually only one of my Orchids might end up with the black splatter. I sometimes wonder if they have a tendency to overeat. I travel a lot and have a system to feed them while I'm away. It seems to happen more often when I'm away, and that might be because they get more flies. When I do see the black splatter, I clean the enclosure and reduce the amount of food for a couple of days until I don't see any new splatter.


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## agent A (Feb 4, 2012)

Tammy, my crix eat carrots and fish flakes, good carotene for my fbts, and 120 crix eat a whole baby carrot overnight

They r fat!!! Lol


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## massaman (Feb 4, 2012)

well cant hurt go give local pet stores some business as well if they sell feeder crickets as I get extra crickets when I buy a few dozen because I go to this pet store all the time and got one of the stores clerks into mantids in the process!


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## sporeworld (Feb 4, 2012)

RE: Splatter.

Yeah - the only reason I noticed it at all was becuase (at the time) I had fully screened enclosures. So I would routinely wash the bottoms, but left the cage in place. It was months before I removed the cage and saw the splattter.

With all glass (and screened top) enclosures, I see it immediately - and clean the entire enclosure _much_ more often.


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## Introvertebrate (Feb 14, 2012)

According to the Ghann's website, they've switched to the virus resistant cricket.

*New VIRUS RESISTANT*

_*Gryllus assimilis *_

*Crickets are here! *


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## bobericc (Feb 14, 2012)

^ interesting mind if ask the source of that?


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## Precarious (Feb 14, 2012)

bobericc said:


> ^ interesting mind if ask the source of that?


Here's a working link:

http://www.ghann.com/gryllus_info.cfm


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## Psychobunny (Feb 15, 2012)

Precarious said:


> Here's a working link:
> 
> http://www.ghann.com/gryllus_info.cfm


Looks like they only have them in 1'' size.

Fine for my bigger adults only.


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## mmmantis (Feb 15, 2012)

Haven't gotten to read the whole topic yet but I think personally it can be where you get your crix from what it's been fed , conditions etc.

I got a few orchid mantises a few months ago . I heard on all breeding diaries , care sheet and everything that to not feed crix , I always try to feed flies unless I don't have any. I had raised orchids before almost solely on a diet of crix but this time within 3 hours to a day for the few that I got over the period of a week they had died


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## Psychobunny (Mar 9, 2012)

Now that Ghann's crick farm has changed species, I went ahead and ordered 500 of the "virus free"

cricks.

So far, I have noticed they do not die off like the others.

I used to remove bunches of dead ones from my crick tub every other day.

Not having that problem with these.

I have gone back to feeding them to my mantids and so far, no problems.

I reserve judgement until I have used them for a while!


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## Psychobunny (Mar 14, 2012)

Okay, maybe I should take back what I said!

Have noticed the same crick death rate. A dozen or so every day found dead!!

Also, I had a adult cilnia die a day after eating one, and the other cilnia would only eat the

head off and throw the juicy body away.

I fed her 3 BB's instead and she was hungry! so there was something about the crick she

didnt like!

Noticed that Ghann's is mixing both species together so they still must have a large inventory

of the "virus" cricks and trying to get rid of them.

All coincedence???


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## Introvertebrate (Mar 14, 2012)

Did you specifically ask Ghann's for the newer Gryllus assimilis? They're darker in color than the old Acheta Domesticus.


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## Krissim Klaw (Mar 14, 2012)

Does anyone know if there is a way to specify you want the Gryllus assimilis from Ghann's? I've been wanting to try them out, but the site still has it listed as they are only shipping them out in limited quantities. If I wanted the old crickets I could just dig in my current stock so not looking to buy until I am assured I will get the new species.


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## Psychobunny (Mar 15, 2012)

They will not fill your order with 100% gryllus because they are still building the colony

for distribution, so you get a mix only, and in my batch of 500, only about 10% were gryllus!!

So no, you can not get only them, they need to depleat stock of the other, virus ridden species

first so they are still selling them to us!!!!!

They stick by their assertion that the cricks are not harmful to your pets, but do they include other

insects like mantids? They say ONLY that species of crick can get the virus, but I have not seen any

official scientific comfirmation of that.


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## Krissim Klaw (Mar 15, 2012)

Psychobunny said:


> They will not fill your order with 100% gryllus because they are still building the colony
> 
> for distribution, so you get a mix only, and in my batch of 500, only about 10% were gryllus!!
> 
> ...


Thank you for verifying that for me. I was tempted to try their new size listing of 1inch sub adults that they claim are possible due to the gryllus. In theory you should only get gryllus if you order that size since they are claiming it is the gryllus's larger size that makes that new category possible. I rather not risk it though so I will wait till they confirm they are completely switched over.I have not had any problems with the virus prone crickets. I am trying the new species mostly out of curiosity to see if I prefer them. If I like them I'll start up my own breeder tank. Crickets aren't pricy, but I find it gets annoying to constantly have to order or go out to a store to purchase more.

As for our virus prone crickets, it is not transmition of the virus that concerns me. I am more worried to know how the cricket's body handles the virus. Are parts of the cricket's body potentially starting to die off pre death? Could I then unwittingly feed one of these crickets that might have died the next day and thus subject my critters to eatting an already half rotting cricket. So far what I have read on them only alludes to a vague they flip over and die of parallisis explaination. What I want to know is how are the crickets bodies effected before they arrive at death.


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## Introvertebrate (Mar 15, 2012)

Even the healthest crickets don't live very long. I would think that Ghann's remaining Acheta Domesticus would have died off by now, unless they're still trying to breed them.


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## Psychobunny (Mar 16, 2012)

Krissim Klaw said:


> Thank you for verifying that for me. I was tempted to try their new size listing of 1inch sub adults that they claim are possible due to the gryllus. In theory you should only get gryllus if you order that size since they are claiming it is the gryllus's larger size that makes that new category possible. I rather not risk it though so I will wait till they confirm they are completely switched over.
> 
> I have not had any problems with the virus prone crickets. I am trying the new species mostly out of curiosity to see if I prefer them. If I like them I'll start up my own breeder tank. Crickets aren't pricy, but I find it gets annoying to constantly have to order or go out to a store to purchase more.
> 
> As for our virus prone crickets, it is not transmition of the virus that concerns me. I am more worried to know how the cricket's body handles the virus. Are parts of the cricket's body potentially starting to die off pre death? Could I then unwittingly feed one of these crickets that might have died the next day and thus subject my critters to eatting an already half rotting cricket. So far what I have read on them only alludes to a vague they flip over and die of parallisis explaination. What I want to know is how are the crickets bodies effected before they arrive at death.


Yes, but read the "small print" on their website that says they are currently mixing both species together with every

order until they get rid of the stock of the domesticus.

Healthy cricks may also eat (or partly eat) an infected dead and nasty crick. It would not be something I would want

to feed any pet, regardles of what they say, would you?

Problem is, you would not know!!


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## Psychobunny (Mar 16, 2012)

Introvertebrate said:


> Even the healthest crickets don't live very long. I would think that Ghann's remaining Acheta Domesticus would have died off by now, unless they're still trying to breed them.


LOL!! I have been wondering the same thing!!??


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## Psychobunny (Mar 24, 2012)

*NEWS FLASH UPDATE:*

Drop what your doing and READ this!!

I received my latest stock of cricks from Ghann's, 500 1/2'' ones.

I had ordered them next day.

When I opened the box and put them into the crick tub, there was not even ONE DEAD CRICKET!!

Also, this time *ALL THE CRICKS WERE gryllus !! NO DOMESTICUS!!!*

After having them for 4 days now, there are *NO DEAD CRICKS in the tub to remove, not even one!!!!!!!*

I have been feeding these to everybody (except my idolo's and orchids) and have not had ANY problems

at all!!!!

If this good luck continues for a few more days, I will call it "case closed".

So far, this is VERY GOOD NEWS indeed


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## Psychobunny (Apr 1, 2012)

Okay, here is an update on the batch I got on the 23rd of March.

I cleaned their tub out today, removing egg cartons, feeding dishes, etc.

There were NO DEAD CRICKETS!! if U dont believe me, too bad, it's true and I am not exagerating.

I want to report this accuratly for every ones benefit.

Something else I noticed, the egg cartons were much cleaner then I have ever seen!!

These guys get BIG but they are quiet.

They also do not smell nearly as bad as domesticus.

Had I ordered the usual domesticus, I would be re-ordering by now due to the high mortality, but I still

have almost half of my original order amount!!

Asside from a few I squashed by accedent (oops, sorry about that little cricket!!), I have not seen a SINGLE

DEAD cricket in my tub!!!

I am VERY pleased and happy with this, and have not had a single sick mantis while feeding these.

I believe I can safely recommend Ghann's Cricket farm to everyone


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## Introvertebrate (Apr 1, 2012)

It just keeps getting better. They're bigger, hardier, healthier, cleaner, quieter, and they don't smell as bad.


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## Myrmecologist2 (Apr 1, 2012)

Wow, this is encouraging. After discovering roaches I've never planned to EVER go back to horrible disgusting crickets, but now that these guys are out. Seems like I wouldn't mind having them around, even just to supplement a roach diet.


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## sinensispsyched (Apr 2, 2012)

Do large chain pet stores (petsmart) have the new crickets yet?


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## Psychobunny (Apr 2, 2012)

Introvertebrate said:


> It just keeps getting better. They're bigger, hardier, healthier, cleaner, quieter, and they don't smell as bad.


Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes and yes


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## Psychobunny (Apr 2, 2012)

sinensispsyched said:


> Do large chain pet stores (petsmart) have the new crickets yet?


I would call them and ask to speak with someone in the reptile department and ask that person

before going all the way there only to be dissapointed.


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## Psychobunny (Apr 2, 2012)

Myrmecologist2 said:


> Wow, this is encouraging. After discovering roaches I've never planned to EVER go back to horrible disgusting crickets, but now that these guys are out. Seems like I wouldn't mind having them around, even just to supplement a roach diet.


Me too !! LOL

I have just gotten used to handling roaches and it doesnt bother me anymore, it fact, they can be fun to

play with  

I raised them for the same reasons as you, but now that these cricks are so different, it's almost a moot point.

If the good cricket fortune continues with my next order, I will feed off the roaches and just use the new species

of cricks from Ghann's (or whoever!!).

NOTE:

Be careful of unscupulas dealers pawning off the wrong, or even illegal species for "cheap"!!


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## Introvertebrate (Apr 2, 2012)

They both have their pros and cons. Roaches live longer, but that also means that it takes longer to get a culture up and running.


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## patrickfraser (Apr 2, 2012)

Crickets stink! I've never used them,and I am trying to avoid them at all costs.


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## Myrmecologist2 (Apr 2, 2012)

patrickfraser said:


> Crickets stink! I've never used them,and I am trying to avoid them at all costs.


Correction, DEAD crickets STINK.  They do seem to stink in general, but it's not as terrible. As soon as you get a dead body in the hidden corner, it starts to stink within the hour and stays around. Hopefully since these new crickets are much hardier and less prone to random die-offs, they simply won't stink as bad.

If I ever get a large mantis which would be better off with larger crawling prey, these guys are the answer for me. I have dubia, but they always play dead. Other roaches are off limits for me.


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## Psychobunny (Apr 4, 2012)

patrickfraser said:


> Crickets stink! I've never used them,and I am trying to avoid them at all costs.


I know it, but trust me, these dont smell rearly as foul as the domesticus.

Likely because they are healthier and more robust.

P.S. I stuck my head in the tub of 400 and took a big whiff!!

I could smell NOTHING!

Had they been the usual domesticus, I would have gaged and fallen over backwards!!


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## Psychobunny (Apr 4, 2012)

Myrmecologist2 said:


> Correction, DEAD crickets STINK.  They do seem to stink in general, but it's not as terrible. As soon as you get a dead body in the hidden corner, it starts to stink within the hour and stays around. Hopefully since these new crickets are much hardier and less prone to random die-offs, they simply won't stink as bad.
> 
> If I ever get a large mantis which would be better off with larger crawling prey, these guys are the answer for me. I have dubia, but they always play dead. Other roaches are off limits for me.


I hate it when the roach hides or plays dead!! They can stay that way for days, and I have found them still

hiding when I clean the cage, after weeks.

If my mantis does not actualy see the roach as soon as I stick it in and go after it, the roach is free!!

Same with my tarantula, there is a adult male roach in there now, behind Kiwi's water dish, he has been

there at least 3 weeks, hidding!!


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## Introvertebrate (Apr 4, 2012)

I understand B. lateralis's run around like raving lunatics.


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## Psychobunny (Apr 5, 2012)

LOL!! I call them Rusty Red's!

I use Dubia because they are slow and lame, nearly helpless little creatures!!

Roll one over on it's back, they are so lame they cant get back up!!


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## Krissim Klaw (Apr 5, 2012)

Psychobunny said:


> LOL!! I call them Rusty Red's!
> 
> I use Dubia because they are slow and lame, nearly helpless little creatures!!
> 
> Roll one over on it's back, they are so lame they cant get back up!!


That makes me just want to tickle roach bellies. I've always wanted to get some hissers, but I am worried about breeding. I don't want to kill adorable roach babies and don't keep enough mantises to eat them all off so overpopulation would occur if they started breeding all willy nilly. XP


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## Precarious (Apr 5, 2012)

Krissim Klaw said:


> That makes me just want to tickle roach bellies. I've always wanted to get some hissers, but I am worried about breeding. I don't want to kill adorable roach babies and don't keep enough mantises to eat them all off so overpopulation would occur if they started breeding all willy nilly. XP


Roaches will actually maintain a population appropriate to the space you give them. I kept hissers for 10 years and the population remained essentially the same. They lived comfortably in their 10 gallon tank with little maintenance. So long as you don't raise them in a big tub you won't get overrun. Way more fun to watch in a small tank anyway. Males will play king of the hill and make a lot of noise to impress the ladies.


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## Krissim Klaw (Apr 5, 2012)

Precarious said:


> Roaches will actually maintain a population appropriate to the space you give them. I kept hissers for 10 years and the population remained essentially the same. They lived comfortably in their 10 gallon tank with little maintenance. So long as you don't raise them in a big tub you won't get overrun. Way more fun to watch in a small tank anyway. Males will play king of the hill and make a lot of noise to impress the ladies.


Wow now you are really makeing me want them. I would have most likely set up a 10-20gallon tank for them and it would very much be for my viewing pleasure. Unfortunatly my location is another reason I have forced myself to avoid picking them up.


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## patrickfraser (Apr 5, 2012)

I have hissers and dubias living together and doing well. Not too many hissers yet, but they are producing young and are easy to tell apart from the dubias. They get big pretty quick. I can't wait to get some more adults. I only have 1 male and 3 female adults. I have no idea how many babies are around in there. I'm hoping to get them separated into their own bin, but it's easier to leave them where they are. If it ain't broke.... :lol:


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## Mvalenz (Apr 8, 2012)

I could never keep roaches in my place. i had a friend whose place was infested with them. I'm afraid I would misplace one and before you know it my place would be infested too. I'll stick with crix from the pet store.


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## Psychobunny (Apr 8, 2012)

Mvalenz said:


> I could never keep roaches in my place. i had a friend whose place was infested with them. I'm afraid I would misplace one and before you know it my place would be infested too. I'll stick with crix from the pet store.


LOL!!

I know exactly what you mean.

I have had enough roach infested appartments in my life.

It took me a long time to get used to having Dubia in the house.

What eased my mind about getting them was the fact that they can not climb smooth

surfaces, they require heat to live, and they do not fly.

If they escapted the tub, they would die within a few days unless your home is always

in the high 70's or low 80's F.

I had a few of them in a plastic critter keeper and forgot they were there.

Removed for the heat sorce and put on a shelf, they were dead after 3 or 4 days.

Also, they will not eat anything (soap, glue from bags, etc.) like pest roaches.


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## Myrmecologist2 (Apr 8, 2012)

Psychobunny said:


> LOL!!
> 
> I know exactly what you mean.
> 
> ...


I've had my dubias fare fine without a heat source at room temp. (76 degrees) However, they did not breed well, and any lower I would expect no breeding at all. I also did a few tests over the winter last year, their mortality rate SIGNIFICANTLY increased at 70 and below. Any of the gravid females at that point had ejected their oothecae. Coupled with their inability to climb smooth surfaces, slow movements, and humidity needs, the chances of dubias infesting the average household is close to nill. You might have them survive for several days, or even weeks, but actually prolificating and thriving is just not possible really. That is, unless you live in an extremely cluttered house such as one of a hoader, live in a very warm climate, and keep random food out and buckets of water in the middle of your living room. lol.

These guys are the perfect feeders, and a great roach for someone looking to start their first roach colony. Their only downside is the fact that they love to play dead, and usually only take a few short steps at a time when active. Not the best atributes when you have a predator that relies on lots of movement.

Course, I've gone off topic a little. I'm hopefully looking to purchase some of these new and improved crickets pretty soon. I'm hoping they're not as cannibilistic.


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## Krissim Klaw (Apr 8, 2012)

Lol I guess that is why they don't want them in FL. Our house is usually 77-80 degrees and humidity usually 40-50%. I still don't think however they would be much a of a house pest problem.


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## Myrmecologist2 (Apr 8, 2012)

Krissim Klaw said:


> Lol I guess that is why they don't want them in FL. Our house is usually 77-80 degrees and humidity usually 40-50%. I still don't think however they would be much a of a house pest problem.


Mine is the same, still doubt they would do much at all. I live in Florida too, was pretty dang hard finding roaches here.


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