# Fruit Fly Medium as House Fly Food



## sporeworld (Jun 12, 2011)

So, in another thread recently, Phil mentioned that Fruit Fly medium could be used for House Flies - and he was right. They love it!

This leads in to my idea, that I'm hoping some of you clever folks will add to...

I want to solidify my Fruit Fly medium into something closer to Play-Doh. Then feed it through one of my port holes at the top of the enclosure. What I'm thinking is, I can put a scrim or whatever it's called (imagine the top of a salt shaker), that I can press the "Fly-Doh" through. Here's a picture of one of the many Play-Doh devices that would produce the same results...







I'm thinking I can just give it either a push or a squeeze (depending on the delivery device) and the half-eatten, spitty parts will call to a cup below, and fresh "Fly-Doh" will be available.

The delivery method could be a bakers bag (whatever that thing is they use for icing), or syringe, or maybe I just spoon it in, and cap it off. Dunno.

I'm off for a week without my bugs, so I have time to think, but not to build. So any thoughts would be appreciated...


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## Rick (Jun 12, 2011)

I think it will be difficult to get the medium to that consistancy. Do you plan to use it like that or add more water?


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## angelofdeathzz (Jun 12, 2011)

Very good point to bring up, as I'll guess many people didn't know they could feed their flies ff medium, you can get it to them any way you want but I simply make some up a little more wet than for ff's and put it in a lid of a solo cup and drop it in the hatch deli before they hatch, and if it starts to dry up I change my mister to stream and give it a quick blast.

BTW powdered milk and powdered sugar in a 50/50 mix is a good one also, I add some honey for nutrition and as a preservative.


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## sporeworld (Jun 12, 2011)

Rick said:


> I think it will be difficult to get the medium to that consistancy. Do you plan to use it like that or add more water?


Yer probably right. It will still be fun to experiment...


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## sporeworld (Jun 12, 2011)

angelofdeathzz said:


> Very good point to bring up, as I'll guess many people didn't know they could feed their flies ff medium, you can get it to them any way you want but I simply make some up a little more wet than for ff's and put it in a lid of a solo cup and drop it in the hatch deli before they hatch, and if it starts to dry up I change my mister to stream and give it a quick blast.
> 
> BTW powdered milk and powdered sugar in a 50/50 mix is a good one also, I add some honey for nutrition and as a preservative.


Yeah. I'm pretty much doing both, but they seem more interested (and for longer) with the FF medium than the sugar stuff. It DOES smell like vinegar, so maybe it's proof that the old cliche is off the mark!


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## sporeworld (Jun 12, 2011)

So, if I take my Fruit Fly medium, and spread it oout on wax paper, will it dry solid? If so, could I then take the new Fly-Wafer and put it my enclosure? Do we think the flies will be able to do their spit thing on it and get nutrients?


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 12, 2011)

kova

I am currently experimenting with the "house fly food of the stars". Take 5ozs of water, two packs of Knox's gelatine (and gelatine will work of course but the packet sizes may be different), and 2Tbs of sugar and heat it until everything is dissolved. Remove it from the heat, and as it cools add some brewers' yeast, buttermilk powder or anything else that the flies have told you they like. It will cool to a nice stable mass which will not dry up in the enclosure.The flies love it!

This is not my invention. The idea came from The Lord of the Flies, Chuck at SpiderPharm


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## sporeworld (Jun 12, 2011)

Perfecto!~


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## angelofdeathzz (Jun 12, 2011)

That does sound very try worthy! But I just know Sporeworld is gunna try stacking different color's of jello for effect!


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 12, 2011)

angelofdeathzz said:


> That does sound very try worthy! But I just know Sporeworld is gunna try stacking different color's of jello for effect!


With sprinkles!


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## sporeworld (Jun 12, 2011)

Ha! And double HA!

I WILL do the layer thing, and the sprinkles - well, maybe Yen's Blend, huh...?


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 13, 2011)

kova

OK. Phil's Philched Phly Phood. I made some larger batches, did a little research and a quick cost analysis.

I guess that most folk know that that nice strawberry Jello that you give yr kids is based on gelatin which is made from boiling cow, sheep, and pig carcases, skin and all.. This is the same nice jelly that you get if you slow-roast (5 hrs at 25)F) a chicken or when you put a pork hock in yr beef stew to thicken it. Yum. It is sold in two forms, gelatin, as made by Knox, -- very expensive at about $11 something for 8ozs or "beef gelatin" perhaps slightly less refined, --less expensive for about $45 for 5lbs.I suggest that you buy the smaller sample first to see if you like it, and then buy the larger, cheaper package after that.

Jello, is much cheaper per oz, because it contains more sugar and flavoring than it does gelatin, but it might be fun to experiment with.

Making Jello (probably a copyright infringement there) with the Knox gelatin uses about 21/2 cups juice to one 1/4 oz pack of gelatin, so that's 28.3Gm (1oz) gelatin to 2400 cc (80 fl ozs) water. I use a much higher ratio, 28,3Gm (4 packets) to only 300 cc water. The reason for this is that it will not melt into a soggy mess in yr enclosure and drown the flies as Jello made in the regular proportions might, and it is much more nutritious, but you may want to do yr own experimentation with the concentration.

The gelatin is mostly protein and trapped water (it's a colloidal solution). Add sugar and you have a nice, nutritious food and safe form of water. I add brewers' yeast, which the flies can dissolve with their spit, and Yen's mix or whatever else suits yr fancy can be added. I prepare the food in a Teflon frying pan so that the layer of gelatine is not too thick and peels off nice and easily (yr SO nee never know!). The solids, like the brewers' yeast, tend to sink to the bottom during cooling (one hour in the refrigerator), so I just turn it upside down and place it in a shallow dish for the flies.

Alas Sporeworld! Yr colored layers of gelatin, with or without sprinkles, will simply become a black mass of flies as soon as you put it in the enclosure. I guess that you can't get any more praise than that.

I think that this is the best fly food that I have ever heard of, but tomorrow, I'll set up two identical cages with about 50 flies in each and provide one with my ff food and a wet sponge and the other with the gelatine food. I shall see if the flies in one live longer than those in the other and let you know!


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## sporeworld (Jun 13, 2011)

That is awesome! Can't wait to try it!

Can't wait til Petco starts marketing "Phil-o" for consumer use!!!

Or would it be "Fly-Oh"? Or for copyright reasons "Dr. _F_il's Fly-Oh - Gelatin Nutrition for all your Winged Feeders".


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## PeterF (Jun 29, 2011)

Sorry I have not been around. Just popping in.

Wanted to say that in the past months I have had great success with a maggot diet of 2:2:1 water, potato flakes, whey powder. I get the flies to lay eggs on paper towels soaked in milk. Move the towel and eggs to a jar and add the maggot food. I rehydrate it sometimes, and add more food as needed. One of the tricks to keeping the stink down has been only giving them 1 table spoon or so at a time.

I had literally 1k flies in a mason jar. Good results most of the time. Some failures, some occasions of undersized flies.

I hope you are well, I will be back when I can.


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## Colorcham427 (Jun 30, 2011)

sorry don't have time to read through this all but your idea sounds awesome. I will advise you to look into different agar solutions for making your medium at a more play-do-ie lol consistency.

Use boiling water when making the medium or else agar doesn't work as well. I use agar in my artificial horn worm diet. If you need some, let me know.


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## hibiscusmile (Jun 30, 2011)

who knew! wonders never cease!  

But what worries me is the pic on top of the play doh toy, Sporeworld, how many kids do you pay to buy toys for you so the storekeepers dont see you? :lol: 

and instead of gelatin, how bout the water gel cubes? needs no boiling, just hot water to puff them up in a hurry. :huh:


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## sporeworld (Jun 30, 2011)

Water gel cubes? Can you elaborate?


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## angelofdeathzz (Jun 30, 2011)

Sporeworld said:


> Water gel cubes? Can you elaborate?


I think she means water crystals, that adsorb 30x there weight(size) in water(or other liquid), great for feeders...


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## Litleape (Jul 19, 2011)

angelofdeathzz said:


> I think she means water crystals, that adsorb 30x there weight(size) in water(or other liquid), great for feeders...


Where do you get these things? I want to go to there.


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## PhilinYuma (Jul 19, 2011)

Oh dear, Rebecca and Brian, it's detention for you, i'm afraid.

I want you to stay behind after school and write a short essay on why to *NEVER* change someone else's formula_ until you've tried it first_.

Water gel is great, but all it provides is water. The gelatine mixture that I describe is a colloid (like Play Dough) which is rich in protein, and carbs when you dissolve some sugar in it. When you make jello for your grand kids, Rebecca, surely you don't boil it? You just sprinkle the gelatine in cold water, so that it doesn't clump, and then stir it over low heat until it dissolves. It doesn't need boiling. There seems to be no point in using agar for such large quantities, since it is very much more expensive.

O.K.. I'll see you after the last bell, but you won't get yr cell phones back until the assignment is completed. You will also be expected to memorize the following sad poem:

Here lies the form of Willy Brown.

Alas he is no more.

The handout said, "Use H20".

Not H2SO4.


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## angelofdeathzz (Jul 19, 2011)

Litleape said:


> Where do you get these things? I want to go to there.


Not sure if Rebecca carries them, but Joshsfrogs.com has it in several different amounts/sizes.


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## Malti (Jul 21, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> kova
> 
> OK. Phil's Philched Phly Phood. I made some larger batches, did a little research and a quick cost analysis.
> 
> ...


could you simplify this?

I get you need 4 packets jello (do flies have a favourite?)

yeast (a pinch or an abundant pinch?)

gelatin 2 1/2 cups

water 300ml

am I missing something? and do the flies lay in it? or next to it? (ie can I cover all the base of the container?)

and do flies or maggots need anything else apart from it?

thx


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## sporeworld (Jul 22, 2011)

OK, so I REALLY wanted to do this tonight, but didn't get out shopping, so I made due with what I had. Off the shelf (blueberry) Jello® Brand Gelatin, water and Brewers Yeast. Actually smelled pretty good.

Obviously, I'll stick to Phil's version after tonight, but as a proof-of-concept, I was pretty happy. Mine was a little runny, but flies didn't seem to mind. They didn't swarm all over it, but they also didn't DROWN in it, so THAT's an improvement!

I had my usual Frit Fly medium in a parallel container, and interest was roughly the same. Of course, they were a (wait for it) "captive audience"... :lol: 

I kill me...


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## Malti (Jul 22, 2011)

Sporeworld said:


> I had my usual Frit Fly medium in a parallel container, and interest was roughly the same. Of course, they were a (wait for it) "captive audience"... :lol:
> 
> I kill me...


 :lol: :lol:


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## PhilinYuma (Jul 22, 2011)

Sporeworld said:


> OK, so I REALLY wanted to do this tonight, but didn't get out shopping, so I made due with what I had. Off the shelf (blueberry) Jello® Brand Gelatin, water and Brewers Yeast. Actually smelled pretty good.
> 
> Obviously, I'll stick to Phil's version after tonight, but as a proof-of-concept, I was pretty happy. Mine was a little runny, but flies didn't seem to mind. They didn't swarm all over it, but they also didn't DROWN in it, so THAT's an improvement!
> 
> ...


Yeah, the reason that I use plain gelatine instead of Jello is because the plain gelatine is much cheaper. A packet of gelatine is 100% gelatine; a packet of Jello contains substantially less than 50% gelatine.

The big advantage of this stuff over the fruit fly medium is that it is an excellent source of water and doesn't dry out.

@Malti: No. No jello. 4, 7.2Gm envelopes of pure gelatine

400ccs water (up from 300ccs)

4Tbs sugar

2tbs brewer's yeast.

When I looked at the packet again, I saw that it claims 8Gm protein per packet. Not much for a human, but pretty good for a fly!


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## Malti (Jul 22, 2011)

what is 7.2Gm envelopes of pure gelatine? here we have gelatine in stuff like this







damn I feel so stupid...is Gm grams?


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## PhilinYuma (Jul 22, 2011)

Malti said:


> what is 7.2Gm envelopes of pure gelatine? here we have gelatine in stuff like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah,. I don't think that this brand is sold in the US, but it is commom in Australia, where a tub like that holds 100 grams. Fortunately, 7.2 is almost exactly 1/14 of 1000, so pour the entire contents into a cc measuring cup and divide the volume by 14 and you will come up with about the same weight as the 7.2 gram packet or measure it directly on a gram scale. The flies proably won't notice the difference!


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## Malti (Jul 23, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> Yeah,. I don't think that this brand is sold in the US, but it is commom in Australia, where a tub like that holds 100 grams. Fortunately, 7.2 is almost exactly 1/14 of 1000, so pour the entire contents into a cc measuring cup and divide the volume by 14 and you will come up with about the same weight as the 7.2 gram packet or measure it directly on a gram scale. The flies proably won't notice the difference!


I'm in neither  thanks mate!


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## Malti (Jul 24, 2011)

I cooked a batch - 35g gelatine, 500ml water, 5tbs sugars, 2 1/2 tbs yeast...looking good


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## hibiscusmile (Jul 30, 2011)

I bad girl!


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## Malti (Jul 30, 2011)

Malti said:


> I cooked a batch - 35g gelatine, 500ml water, 5tbs sugars, 2 1/2 tbs yeast...looking good


this batch is liquifiying for me after some hours outside - does that happen to yours to Phil? room temp here is about 86F (30C) top - 69.8F (21C) least heat


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## PhilinYuma (Aug 2, 2011)

Malti said:


> this batch is liquifiying for me after some hours outside - does that happen to yours to Phil? room temp here is about 86F (30C) top - 69.8F (21C) least heat


sorry missed this earlier. My bug room temp was 30C today and the gelatine didn'tliquify. Your mis is exactly the same as mine, so "i guess that there is something different about the gelatine. Try 50ccs less (450ccs) and see what happens. :mellow:


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## PeterF (Aug 3, 2011)

Could humidity make a difference? You're not exactly in the jungle Phil.


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