# Giant Spiny Stick-Insect



## Griever (Mar 25, 2009)

I found a local breeder of these creepy crawlies and he is selling them for quite a good deal, and I just can't pass up a good deal. To those who have experience with these phasmids are they easy to rear? What is the ideal size enclosure? Are they nippy? Do they have any defensive secretions?

Personally I think a nice vegetarian insect would be a nice change from all the carnivores


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## superfreak (Mar 25, 2009)

herbivores can be quite boring.... and no, they wont bite, or do very much at all for that matter..... its like going from keeping tigers to keeping cows.


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## Katnapper (Mar 25, 2009)

superfreak said:


> its like going from keeping tigers to keeping cows.


 :lol: !


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## Morpheus uk (Mar 26, 2009)

Their not quite boring at all, not even one bit, they look just as good as mantids, if you think their boring just cause of their diet then the only reason you have an interest in mantids is cause you find pleasure in having them kill things :angry: 

I keep both mantids and phasmids.

Giant spiny stick insect is like saying, green mantis, it could descrive hundreds of species, do you know the actual scientific name of these giant spiny`s?

If you cant then describe them the best you can. _Eurycantha calcarata_ are generally refered to as Giant spiny`s, but then again so are _Extatosoma tiaratum_.

Heres a couple of pics of both.

Eurycantha calcarata












Eurycantha love a humid set up, they need deep substrate, something like cocofibre, around 2 inches deep for the females to lay her ova in. They can be aggressive, defending them selves with the thorns on their hind legs, the males have a very large hook like thorn. The males are most agressive, even mroe so when there are more males to females, so generally have a one male to 2 female ratio. They feed happily on bramble and i think they can take guarva. Eggs take about 6 or so months i think. I house mine in a large (soon to be replaced by a bigger) clear plastic box with lid. The only ventilation they get is through the small space between the lid. I say they love humidity but ive also had them doing fine in dryer habitats. I also place several bits of bark for the nymphs and adults to hide under.

Extatosoma tiaratum











Extatosoma prefer dryer conditions, and should be fed on eucalyptus but they can take bramble, bramble being the equivilent to junk food for this species. Spray around once a week, when i had them they were on sand. They can use their back legs just like eurycantha but they VERY rarely do and it can cause no damage what so ever. Ova take generally 9 months to hatch from a sexual stock and 12 months from a parthenogenetic one i think. They prefer airy housing with plenty of ventilation.


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## Morpheus uk (Mar 26, 2009)

Griever said:


> I found a local breeder of these creepy crawlies and he is selling them for quite a good deal, and I just can't pass up a good deal. To those who have experience with these phasmids are they easy to rear? What is the ideal size enclosure? Are they nippy? Do they have any defensive secretions?Personally I think a nice vegetarian insect would be a nice change from all the carnivores


To answer your these questions yes they are fairly easy and enjoyable to keep, the ideal enclosure is at least 4-6 times the length of the phasmid for hieght, and not all species have defensive secreations.


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## hibiscusmile (Mar 26, 2009)

:blink: They are so scary looking, the first one I would be afraid of, and the second is so cool looking, really would like one of those.Thanks for the info, always wondered about how to keep the second one, and some people make it seem so hard.


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## Griever (Mar 26, 2009)

Yup Extatosoma tiaratum is the species he's got, really cool looking imo, although its all parthenogenetic stock. I think that phasmids are just as interesting to keep as mantids some even gettng to be quite huge, bigger than any mantis. Plus it will give me a reason to clear out the bramble out in the backyard!


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## hibiscusmile (Mar 26, 2009)

Good idea, why didn't I think of that!


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## PhilinYuma (Mar 26, 2009)

Griever said:


> Yup Extatosoma tiaratum is the species he's got, really cool looking imo, although its all parthenogenetic stock. I think that phasmids are just as interesting to keep as mantids some even gettng to be quite huge, bigger than any mantis. Plus it will give me a reason to clear out the bramble out in the backyard!


I'm with Superfreak on this one, but friend Mija has a colony and has recently introduced a male. Their natural food is eucalyptus (abundant in the SW U.S), and you might want to vary their diet a bit if you are feeding brambles. Your main problem, though, is that these are parthenogenic stock and they will grow smaller and more prone to "sudden infant death syndrome" with each generation (perhaps that's why your dealer is prepared to make a good deal!). Check out US phasmid forums and try to find a male if you can!


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## Morpheus uk (Mar 27, 2009)

You could always try http://www.insectstore.com/phasmid/

We have a few US members on there who keep extatosoma`s and others. Or if they cant set you up you can always ask if anyone can send you some ova


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## Peter Clausen (Mar 29, 2009)

I'd really advise against anybody in the US attempting to receive even eggs of phasmids from overseas. Customs will find and not hesitate to confiscate your material and show up your door. I'm not exaggerating.

Extatosoma tiaratum is better referred to as the giant prickly. They eat Photinia glabra (Red-tipped Photinia) too. It's in landscaping all over W. Washington state.

Both are amazing animals. Phasmids are like the moon...slowly and continuously making their way across the night sky. Mantids are like shooting stars, invisible until they decide to do something and then it's quite a show! The sky isn't perfect without both of them in it as far as I'm concerned.


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## Katnapper (Mar 29, 2009)

Peter said:


> Both are amazing animals. Phasmids are like the moon...slowly and continuously making their way across the night sky. Mantids are like shooting stars, invisible until they decide to do something and then it's quite a show! The sky isn't perfect without both of them in it as far as I'm concerned.


Lovely comparison!


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## superfreak (Apr 5, 2009)

Morpheus, i keep phasmids too. Coincidentally, exactly the ones on discussion (plus Goliaths)! I do enjoy watching my mantids kill things, and i think you'd be hard pressed to find an amature mantid enthusiast who doesn't enjoy feeding time! but the comparison i made in relation to diet was somewhat more subtle than that. Herbivores, because of a number of factors, are simply not as behaviorally complex as carnivores or omnivores. This is because of a combination of dietary factors (including ratios concerning the nutritive payoff per unit of energy spent grazing) and behavioral factors (as they dont hunt for their food there is little environmental pressure to drive adaptation and evolution of complex behavior. i.e. unless they start planting and growing their own food...well, theres little for them to do but move from leaf to leaf....grazing.).

Humans didnt begin to reach for cerebral complexity until they started eating meat and hunting. Added proteins = building blocks for the brain!, hunting = creates a necessity for planning, opens up the possibility for continual improvement of hunting strategies (tools etc). Everything is centered around decreasing expenditure of energy and increasing input. And not starving means you can focus on procreation! Yay!  

Im not saying mantids are THAT much more complex. They are still insects. Though i dream that one day i will be able to converse with them...and ride them around town...and sick them on people i dont care for...  

Saying all that - phasmids definitely have the mantids beat on the size and looks front. Hence why i have a bunch in my room (and bunch it is! i think of them as my special moving, pooping flowers :lol: )! But to me, personally, they seem to lack some of the personality of mantids.

Oh and my parthenogenic eggs hatched after a bit less than nine months. A friend's hatched 7 months after laying. Fertilized eggs should hatch within 5 months, usually 3 to 4.  

Tschuss!


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## superfreak (Apr 5, 2009)

oh and down here in oz the Extatosoma tiaratum is called macleay's spectre or spiny leaf insect (i know theyre not really a leaf insect - what i wouldnt give for a specimen!!)


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## Griever (Apr 5, 2009)

-On another note- How does one incubate and care for eggs once their laid? Do they need to be kept moist, or at a certain temp?


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## revmdn (Apr 5, 2009)

procreation, yay!


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## Katnapper (Apr 5, 2009)

revmdn said:


> procreation, yay!


  :lol:


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## revmdn (Apr 5, 2009)

Yeah, I read that whole post and that's all I took away from it. Sorry.


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## superfreak (Apr 5, 2009)

haha. i jus kept mine in a giant pile in a deli cup. i have a bit of microwaved sand in there (de-germification!) to keep in the moisture. i spray every month or so, when i remember to. at one point they got all mouldy so i washed them and let them dry out. i keep them on my computer so theyre a little bit warmer than rooom temp but i dont think even that is reall needed. just dump them somewhere and forget about them


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## PhilinYuma (Apr 15, 2009)

revmdn said:


> Yeah, I read that whole post and that's all I took away from it. Sorry.


Ouch! I missed the end of this thread altogether!

revmdn: What Superfreak is saying here is not revolutionary or original, but she brings up two fundamental issues that are not only basic tenets of biology and anthropology, but are just plain "beautiful ideas."

The first is that obligate herbivores, whether they be gazelles on the African plains or stick insects, are eating machines.

Many ungulates in Africa , for example, eat for up to 20 hrs a day! They live on "second class (plant) protein," which is difficult for mammals to digest, hence such anatomical strategies as the rumen and the vermiform appendix, but is abundantly available. They don't have to think about obtaining food, they just eat.

Obligate carnivores, like lions and mantises, on the other hand, though they live on first class (animal) protein, have to make decisions about their food. They tend to follow the rule that a potential meal must provide a greater caloric intake than the caloric expenditure involved in capturing the prey, which is why you will see lions, say (on Animal Planet) or mantises (in real life) abandoning a potential prey if it's capture is likely to use up more energy than will be gained from capturing it.

The posited increase in intelligence in humans when they became omnivores is due not primarily due to the fact that first class protein is in itself "superior" (though the fact that it is more readily metabolized is a contribtory factor) but because of the need to evolve intelligent strategies to capture it.

Personally, I think that Superfreak posited both positions more succinctly than I, so if you have waded through this, I suggest that you go back to her post and learn.


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## Katnapper (Apr 16, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> Ouch! I missed the end of this thread altogether!revmdn: What Superfreak is saying here is not revolutionary or original, but she brings up two fundamental issues that are not only basic tenets of biology and anthropology, but are just plain "beautiful ideas."
> 
> The first is that obligate herbivores, whether they be gazelles on the African plains or stick insects, are eating machines.
> 
> ...


Hmm... I think he understands the points, Phil.  He's just displaying thought behavior typical to the male of our species who is within breeding age... "one track mind" syndrome. One brief mention of procreation, and all other points go out the window, replaced by titillating fantasies and visions of when the next procreational opportunity will present itself. Men!!!  :lol: Come on, Phil, surely you understand, can relate, and take pity on his sad and unfortunate condition ... you're not THAT old!


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## superfreak (Apr 17, 2009)

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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