# Idolomantis diabolica



## macro junkie

i got 2.Im not hoping to breed them just use them for pics.












4:1


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## macro junkie

thought i would update this thread..


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## macro junkie

Female


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## macro junkie

*Male Subadult*


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## macro junkie

*sub adult female*


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## macro junkie

*Adult male48 hours after shedding*


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## macro junkie

adult male


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## idolomantis

thats one heck of a defense pose :blink:


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## macro junkie




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## macro junkie




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## Kruszakus

Just, just... great! Man, you're the man when it comes to pictures.


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## macro junkie

Kruszakus said:


> Just, just... great! Man, you're the man when it comes to pictures.


buying a good camera is really good..i enjoy looking after my mantids and taking pics as they progress over time..its cool to go back and look at nymphs that are now adult.thanks for your comments.but im not the man,,.igor is..


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## Tunedbeat

I don't know why but these always remind me of that monster from the movie "Jeepers Creepers". And, wonderful pictures by the way. Igor is more of an artist really, plus that full frame camera really helps him bring in alot of details.


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## macro junkie

Tunedbeat said:


> I don't know why but these always remind me of that monster from the movie "Jeepers Creepers". And, wonderful pictures by the way. Igor is more of an artist really, plus that full frame camera really helps him bring in alot of details.


iv been told by some of the best macro photographers on thew canon forum that full frame sensors wont make your macro pics any better,,iv been told there good for landscape shots..hes got good detail because hes defusing his lights and using a good lens..


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## macro junkie

Tunedbeat said:


> Igor is more of an artist really, plus that full frame camera really helps him bring in alot of details.


a 1.6 crop sensor gives you an effective higher magnification,For a Ful Frame camera to have better resolution and the ability to maybe crop it to a 1.6X crop equivalent with the same pixel level then it would need somewhere around 20mp sensor,canon do make a Full Frame camera like that but it costs about £6000..


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## Malnra

Very nice shots MJ .. thanks for sharing the images


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## macro junkie

Geoff_K said:


> Very nice shots MJ .. thanks for sharing the images


more to come..just editing them now..his eyes have gone red now..This is the best species i have..


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## Tunedbeat

macro junkie said:


> iv been told by some of the best macro photographers on thew canon forum that full frame sensors wont make your macro pics any better,,iv been told there good for landscape shots..hes got good detail because hes defusing his lights and using a good lens..


It's the combination of both, lens and camera. No denying that under the right conditions, a full frame camera will always beat out those with a smaller sensor. And, just diffusing the lights will not help you bring in more detail.


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## macro junkie

Tunedbeat said:


> It's the combination of both, lens and camera. No denying that under the right conditions, a full frame camera will always beat out those with a smaller sensor. And, just diffusing the lights will not help you bring in more detail.


yer hes good at what he does,


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## macro junkie




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## macro junkie




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## joossa

Nice ocelli!


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## macro junkie

joossa said:


> Nice ocelli!


thanks joossa


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## Tunedbeat

Wow, I like their antennas!

Though, they still look creepy but I want one.


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## macro junkie




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## Precious

Your photos are breathtaking, as usual. I'd never get anything done if I had equipment and skills like that. Maybe I could send you my mantids for portraiture? The diabolica has never given me the willies before, but some of your photos are chilling. Beautiful, but in an, "I'd eat you if I could." sort of way. Is it hard to get them to strike that defense posture? Nice work!


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## macro junkie

Precious said:


> Your photos are breathtaking, as usual. I'd never get anything done if I had equipment and skills like that. Maybe I could send you my mantids for portraiture? The diabolica has never given me the willies before, but some of your photos are chilling. Beautiful, but in an, "I'd eat you if I could." sort of way. Is it hard to get them to strike that defense posture? Nice work!


thanks..im lucky im in the postion where i dont have to work..so i just look after my mantids all day and take pics..i enjoy it..  the defense pose i have to make sure i have the right lens on,,once or twice hes pulled one and by he time i put my other lens on he stoped it..thats why im getting another body(40D) this way i have 60m for body shots and threat pose but the closer stuff i can use mpe-65..but yer it depends what mode hes in.


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## macro junkie

still waiting for my female to shed..so for now another pic of the male..side shot..


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## macro junkie




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## Tunedbeat

If I remember correctly, you have a 400D? Upgrading to a 40D would be a waste of money. I'm selling my 40D, so I can get the new Rebel XSi. Reason being, I like the feel of the small rebel. Unless, you require the 6.5fps and like a big bulky camera, there's no need to upgrade. Just buy a Canon 100mm macro lens, it will allow you to do both body shots and close-up. MPE-65 is good for really small subjects and you should consider yourself lucking for owning that lens! The price it's going for is out of my range. Maybe, I'll get it in a few yrs.


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## macro junkie

Tunedbeat said:


> If I remember correctly, you have a 400D? Upgrading to a 40D would be a waste of money. I'm selling my 40D, so I can get the new Rebel XSi. Reason being, I like the feel of the small rebel. Unless, you require the 6.5fps and like a big bulky camera, there's no need to upgrade. Just buy a Canon 100mm macro lens, it will allow you to do both body shots and close-up. MPE-65 is good for really small subjects and you should consider yourself lucking for owning that lens! The price it's going for is out of my range. Maybe, I'll get it in a few yrs.


no need to buy 100mm..my 60mm does what the 100mm does.the reason i choose the 60mm over the 100mm is working distance..i dont need alot so i was happy to get the 6omm,,im probably going to get the 450d when it comes out next month,,im about to order set of tubes..this way il have 2 set ups then

400d with 60m and tubes and 430ex on bracket

450d with mpe and mt-24ex..this way i dont have to keep changing lens..


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## macro junkie

I only shoot in raw now..

male


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## macro junkie

adult male waiting to mate.any day now the female will shedd to adult


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## MantidLord

So you do plan on mating them? Great pics BTW.


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## macro junkie

MantidLord said:


> So you do plan on mating them? Great pics BTW.


yes..i was planning on mating them from the start.i just didnt say any thing.didnt want to jinx it..iv read how hard this species is to keep..yen had a 50% loss from shedding from sub adult - adult..im not out the woods yet..the female is about to shed any day now..if she does with no problems "touch wood" i have a chance i think..fingers crossed init..


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## macro junkie

male adult


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## MantidLord

Man. Now I can't wait till she molts. This species is awesome. Though I'll never try to rear them, even if I did obtain some ooths. I know my limitations. I really hope she sheds soon. Are you going to keep breeding them? just wondering.


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## macro junkie

MantidLord said:


> . Are you going to keep breeding them? just wondering.


if all works out yes..


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## macro junkie




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## Morpheus uk

Amazing photo!


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## macro junkie

Morpheus uk said:


> Amazing photo!


not the sharpest but his hole hole body was shaking so fast im gueesing he was warming up his wing muscle as 1 min after me taking the pic he flew off..these are amazing mantids..when its sat on your hand flapping its wings it feals strange.


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## macro junkie

male - adult


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## macro junkie

seems like i been waiting a life time for this female to shedd. :angry: hopfully any day now.


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## macro junkie

stewmcfew's from flickr told me its about 4 weeks away from shedding..majour bummer.oh well leaste i got the nymphs..cause i cant see my male living another 2 months no way.I bet hes got another 4 weeks in him max, :angry:


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## MantidLord

Dang :angry: Hopefully the female will shed real soon. Things taking forever.


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## Morpheus uk

Bung the lazy mantid by a radiator, that should speed things along :lol: 

Will yens superior super feeding work?


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## macro junkie

Morpheus uk said:


> Bung the lazy mantid by a radiator, that should speed things along :lol: Will yens superior super feeding work?


lol.theres nothing more i can do..they have an endles amount of flys as i throw 3 or 4 in there cage every day.yesterday i saw her eat 5 massive flys in 20 mins..she was dam hungry,the cage is heated to 93f 24hous a day.its just a waiting game now.


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## Christian

> the cage is heated to 93f 24hous a day


 :blink: That's pretty bad! They need cooling down by night.


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## macro junkie

Christian said:


> :blink: That's pretty bad! They need cooling down by night.


they dont get a night..sinse they been L3/L4 they have had light for 24/7...why is it bad?i got them to adult and sub adult from L3/L4 so i cant see why its bad?

im in a proceess of sorting out a room just for mantids..i can then set all the lighting on a timer,18hours on 6 hoursoff and a heated room when the light goes off..il only do that tho cause they do it in the wild..im giving them 24hours now and it dont seem to bother them..imo there at peake health..same goes for the L1 nymphs..there all now L2 and they have had 24hours of light also.in a few weeks tho that will change when i get the shed up and running.i got big plans for my shed..its massive..


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## Christian

Are you joking? You cannot keep an animal that is used to a cyrcadian rhythm at constant light and temp regimes. The species is difficult enough to breed even without such silly experiments. But, regardless what I say, it seems that noone is ever listening. From now on, I will not give any advices regarding this species again. If you think you're right, ok. Everyone gets what he deserves.


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## asdsdf

What do you expect will happen? What about if he keeps the temperature the same night and day, but the light is turned off during the night. I keep all of my heated mantises like that... :blink: They have a heatpack, and during the day, the light is on. But when it's nighttime, I turn it off, but they continue to receive heat throughout the night.


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## Andrew

Christian...I'm listening.


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## darkspeed

Christian said:


> Are you joking? You cannot keep an animal that is used to a cyrcadian rhythm at constant light and temp regimes. The species is difficult enough to breed even without such silly experiments. But, regardless what I say, it seems that noone is ever listening. From now on, I will not give any advices regarding this species again. If you think you're right, ok. Everyone gets what he deserves.


Please dont be like that Christian. You are the #1 mantis expert on this board, and for most of us when you speak we listen.


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## macro junkie

Christian said:


> , it seems that noone is ever listening. From now on, I will not give any advices regarding this species again.


ok.thats fine with me.


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## macro junkie

by the time i start breeding them the room will be sorted.this will be in 1 or 2 weeks..i know u are right.thats why im changing it..but for the time iv had them on 24/7 iv grown them up from nympth to adult so i cant see what the problem is.theres always yen any way..he will help me.


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## spawn

Scott -- buying a bunch of mantids with some loose change doesn't make you qualified to tell people to essentially piss off because what you've done is working...so far. Christian has enough stuff in literature that I'd be happy he posts anything at all on the forum. Not to mention the complete lack of tact and lack of knowledge about the mantids in general. It leaves a bitter taste in people's mouths when someone with a pretty camera photographs a bunch of pretty-sought after mantids, and has the experience of an amateur with those mantids. Fancy but no subtance. There are plenty of people on here who are/were trying to work UP to the I. diabolica from prior collections but haven't gotten the chance to buy them or don't have the money that you seem to have. There's nothing wrong with having excess money for it, but to blow it up in people's faces like Christian's and actually give advice on your lack of experience is pointless.

So now you've burnt your bridge with Christian, and Yen's next? What about when Yen moves to Malaysia? Who to turn to? But I guess having more than one opinion on the subject isn't necessary.

Just remember one thing: there are people left in the trade who genuinely like the animals and find keeping them interesting, and are NOT looking to make a living off selling these. Since your "buy everything rare and wanted" tirade started late last year, it seems like you're after the exact opposite. Don't know, but that's how it's portrayed. Tell everyone to F off until you've got enough mantids to sell that people want. It's tactless and I don't like it. Oh and for what's it worth -- the circadian rythm is followed by most living organisms, because you know -- it's that thing that governs how life began and continues to thrive on this thing we call Earth. If your mantids were truly exposed to the same degree of light for 24 hours, it'll catch up to them sooner or later. Maybe not in the current molt, but maybe when it comes time to lay an ooth that comes out like glue instead of foam. I don't know. But why risk the health of the animals (if you don't care that's fine, but why think that people on a site called the MANTID FORUM weren't going to worry about that) on getting them to grow faster by a month's time?


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## Villosa

I agree with Spawn. If there's evidence to suggest that certain environmental conditions must be followed then I'd follow them. Shortening time may even burn out such animals, it happens to plants, why not a mantis. That's why people don't live forever, our hearts eventually get old, tired, and give out. A mantis, or a plant, over prolong amount of nonstop growth may die before reaching maturity. I, myself, am getting 10 idolomantis from Yen because I am about to start a journal all about I. diabolica where I will basically document every right and every wrong, down to even the diameter of a twig one molted from. That's why I'm majoring in entomology! Hopefully with that I can gain some knowledge about how they work and share those with the world. True I was once the person who wanted the most exotic species ever, but after a bit, learning about them seems a lot more fulfilling. Granted I am breeding p. walhbergii and paradoxa right now to fund such things, but that's a long ways away to paying off, I've been using hard earned money so far. Whoa I've rambled, not too sure why I'm here anymore, I guess I like to share about one of my favorite hobbies...


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## macro junkie

spawn said:


> Scott -- buying a bunch of mantids with some loose change doesn't make you qualified to tell people to essentially piss off because what you've done is working...so far. Christian has enough stuff in literature that I'd be happy he posts anything at all on the forum. Not to mention the complete lack of tact and lack of knowledge about the mantids in general. It leaves a bitter taste in people's mouths when someone with a pretty camera photographs a bunch of pretty-sought after mantids, and has the experience of an amateur with those mantids. Fancy but no subtance. There are plenty of people on here who are/were trying to work UP to the I. diabolica from prior collections but haven't gotten the chance to buy them or don't have the money that you seem to have. There's nothing wrong with having excess money for it, but to blow it up in people's faces like Christian's and actually give advice on your lack of experience is pointless.So now you've burnt your bridge with Christian, and Yen's next? What about when Yen moves to Malaysia? Who to turn to? But I guess having more than one opinion on the subject isn't necessary.
> 
> Just remember one thing: there are people left in the trade who genuinely like the animals and find keeping them interesting, and are NOT looking to make a living off selling these. Since your "buy everything rare and wanted" tirade started late last year, it seems like you're after the exact opposite. Don't know, but that's how it's portrayed. Tell everyone to F off until you've got enough mantids to sell that people want. It's tactless and I don't like it. Oh and for what's it worth -- the circadian rythm is followed by most living organisms, because you know -- it's that thing that governs how life began and continues to thrive on this thing we call Earth. If your mantids were truly exposed to the same degree of light for 24 hours, it'll catch up to them sooner or later. Maybe not in the current molt, but maybe when it comes time to lay an ooth that comes out like glue instead of foam. I don't know. But why risk the health of the animals (if you don't care that's fine, but why think that people on a site called the MANTID FORUM weren't going to worry about that) on getting them to grow faster by a month's time?


what ever


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## Rob Byatt

spawn said:


> So now you've burnt your bridge with Christian, and Yen's next? What about when Yen moves to Malaysia? Who to turn to? But I guess having more than one opinion on the subject isn't necessary.


And me  I'm annoying apparently  



Christian said:


> But, regardless what I say, it seems that noone is ever listening. From now on, I will not give any advices regarding this species again. If you think you're right, ok. Everyone gets what he deserves.


Deja voi  You know I feel the same Christian, but nevermind, those that choose to bury their pride and listen are the ones that will still be here in 12 months time.


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## ThorEH

macro junkie said:


> what ever


are you really this arrogant ??

You really surprise me now Scott ! But if that's the way you want to go, so be it..


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## darkspeed

Isnt this getting blown just a bit out of porportion?

Regardless of who is right here, human nature is to dislike being disagreed with , much less being wrong.

Both Christian and Scott handled their discussion more aggressively than was necessary, but that is not any reason for people to get angry or start taking sides.

Now lets try to keep this discussion on topic... Idolomantis diabolica


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## darkspeed

My findings on the subject at hand...

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?sh...&amp;st=0

More importantly:

My investigations have led me to some worthwhile information. It was found that most insects, when subjected to constant periods of whatever light cycle produced the most activity (light for day active insects, and dark for nocturnal insects) ther level of activty remained almost constant with the level of light, and for some insects abnormal periods of light or dark resulted in dramatically shortened mating periods. Furthermore, in some insects, when the ocelli were destroyed or covered up the test subjects resulted in gradual loss of natural rythim, whereas covering the compound eyes and leaving the ocelli intact had little effect. In other insects the results were exactly opposite. Meanwhile if test subjects had both compound eyes and the ocelli covered or destroyed, their rhytihm stabilized at 12/12 active / inactive, unaffected by light conditions in the subjects environment.


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## bugzilla

DARKSPEED said:


> Isnt this getting blown just a bit out of porportion?Regardless of who is right here, human nature is to dislike being disagreed with , much less being wrong.
> 
> Both Christian and Scott handled their discussion more aggressively than was necessary, but that is not any reason for people to get angry or start taking sides.
> 
> Now lets try to keep this discussion on topic... Idolomantis diabolica


Well said that man  . There are many different ways that people keep their pets and none are natural. Provided they are in good health that's all that matters!

As for the diabolicas, why are they regarded as so difficult? Is it just a temperature thing? They are on my wanted list so I need all the info I can get.


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## mrblue

bugzilla said:


> Provided they are in good health that's all that matters!


i'm sure we would all agree with this, but thats what the whole disagreement is about, whether or not certain conditions are good and healthy for mantids.

anyway, those are some interesting links, thanks.


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## darkspeed

mrblue said:


> i'm sure we would all agree with this, but thats what the whole disagreement is about, whether or not certain conditions are good and healthy for mantids.anyway, those are some interesting links, thanks.


That is where the mantis specific information becomes very important. We already know that temperature alone can lengthen or shorten a mantids lifespan, but that is because it affects them all the way down to the metabolic level. However physical activity and metabolic rate are entirely different.

As I stated earlier, with some insects (for example nocturnal cockroaches) when light was never apparent in their environment, they stayed in a constant level of activity. While this didnt have a negative effect on their health, it should be noted that this is a natural condition in the wild, as cockroaches tend to dwell in dark places and some rarely see high levels of light intensity anyway. Other species of insects are able to maintain their own rhythim regardless of changes in light intensity. Mantids on the other hand, especially the ambush type are a little more complex. Regardless of light, their level of "activity" is still amost none until another outside variable comes into play... motion detection. Some mantids will sit in one place otherwise totally inactive until they sense movement that catches their attention, either in the form of prey or predator/danger of some sort. Even though they are on a circadian rhythim, their activity level does not seem to be affected much by light.

I have however inadvertantly discovered the consequenses of keeping a mantid in near constant activity. It is rather embarrasing, and I had not planned on sharing this, but because it is so relevant it seems I have no choice...

Some time ago I had ordered a cup full of houseflys from Rebecca. The houseflies were intended to feed two male ghosts, one of which was an adult and the other a sub.

Since none of my other mantids were big enough to eat them I made the mistake of placing the whole cup of housefly casters in the large ghost inclosure. They all hatched out and before I knew it the ghosts were swarmed with flies. They ate their fill at first and seemed happy, but soon the flies became unthreatened by the mantids and were literally crawling all over them. This seemed to annoy the mantids to no end, and before I realized what was happening the constant level of activity maintained by the annoying flys caused the health of the two ghosts to diminish rapidly. Within just two days the ghosts had gone from healthy to dying... Neither of them recovered  

It is my conclusion then, that while light levels may or may not disrupt some mantids natural rhythim, and therefore have an effect on their health, constant activity definitely does have an impact. Granted this will vary from species to species, but I believe that in regards to I. Diabolica, which is also an ambush type, any more than intermittant activity caused by over frequent feeding may be exhausting for them as well.


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## Villosa

I hope that was what I was trying to get across earlier too, though not as well put. Good stuff Darkspeed! Photoperiod may not have that large of an impact but there is no such thing as a non-heat producing light and I think that's where the problem was that Christian was trying to get across. It's like a car, keeping the engine idle (ex: keeping the mantis' photoperiod constant) certainly allows the engine to last longer than if it was running on the freeway nonstop with constant refueling (constant activity from heat). Eventually it catches up and the engine breaks down (the mantis dies). It's all speculation but stories of exhaustion from over activity isn't new, it's always been there


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## chun

a constant light level may not be very significant in influencing the mantids' activities but it is a NECESSITY in some species, in this case _Idolomantis_. to encourage sexual interests between adults. Even though the mantid may moult to adult with no obvius defects, denying adults of a circadian rhythm will most definitely result in a sexually uninterested male. Field and lab studies have shown that most matings in _Mantis reliogisa _ (i think) occured during dusk when the light level was the same intensity as 2 candles (although, i'll need to confirm this). It has aslo been noted that the highest frequency of female calling activity occurred after dusk in _Hierodula paterllifera_. Furthermore, Wild males were found on the cages of calling females at night, suggesting that male _H. patellifera _ search for mates preferably at night. It is clear that mantids mating behaviour is dictated by the circadian rhythm, and refusing to accept potential indirect fitness effects inflicted on the mantid being denied the natural circadian rhythm is somewhat naive and ignorant.


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## darkspeed

Extremely good info Chun.

Thank you!!


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## chun

Villosa said:


> I hope that was what I was trying to get across earlier too, though not as well put. Good stuff Darkspeed! Photoperiod may not have that large of an impact but there is no such thing as a non-heat producing light and I think that's where the problem was that Christian was trying to get across. It's like a car, keeping the engine idle (ex: keeping the mantis' photoperiod constant) certainly allows the engine to last longer than if it was running on the freeway nonstop with constant refueling (constant activity from heat). Eventually it catches up and the engine breaks down (the mantis dies). It's all speculation but stories of exhaustion from over activity isn't new, it's always been there


I dont think Christian was trying to get across the effect of a constant light source on growth and 'exhaustion from over activity' but rather the effect of the constant diurnal rhythm on the sexual behaviour of _Idolomantis diabolicum_.

One final thing, rasiing a mantid form nymph to adult is easy; the difficulties lie in stimulating sexual interests in the adults, which is why there are only a handful of breeders that have been able to maintain this species in culture for several generations whilst many have failed. I for one would listen and note down very carefully the conditions these breeders created for their Idolomantis and to simulate this.

Although, everyone is different


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## Villosa

Yes! That is the other good point. Are we disrupting their activities significantly if we deny them of a rotating, natural, photoperiod? I'd like to agree that since nature is thriving with a dark and light photoperiod, then what's the harm with not keeping that same photoperiod while in captivity? If it works, why fix it right? Plus now we might even have issues with photoperiod with mating/calling, maybe even frquency of oothecea being deposited, production of eggs etc etc. Good stuff.

EDIT: Oh yes Chun, you are right it seems, I had to go back a bit to read more, I forgot what was said in the many pages here and there


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## MantidLord

...I know this may not be good for exotic species, but why not just let the mantids live in your setup wthout any special lightings? I have mine just stay in my room, and when it's dark here, it's dark for the mantids, and vice versa. Although I only have native species. But MJ will find out if he is doing the right thing or not, so there's nothing we can really do about it. I never want to get an I. Diabolica, cause I'm satisfied with my (somewhat plain) I. oratoria. Though I do hope breeders will be successful in bringing back the idolomantis. See ya.

BTW, I love reading the info you post christian (even if I need a dictionary), and I take the info to heart, so if I ever get a "complex" sp, I'd know something. So please don't feel ignored. And I also love looking at MJ's photos, so as long as he takes care of the Mantids, and breeds them, It's okay, so don't diss his work. Thanks guys, and remember, lets not get mad at each other, as long as we are here for the same reasons.


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## Christian

I did never say anything about any photos of anyone. I am just finished with this species here. This decision is for good. Everything important was said about this species, the ones who are really interested should find the information. Repeating the stuff over and over again and getting such answers just doesn't fit together. There are enough other topics left.


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## Rob Byatt

MantidLord said:


> BTW, I love reading the info you post christian (even if I need a dictionary), and I take the info to heart, so if I ever get a "complex" sp, I'd know something. So please don't feel ignored.


It is good that you take the advice given, but the reason Christian is not giving advice anymore doesn't have much to do with being ignored (it's not a personal emotion), but simply because it gets annoying typing the same thing over and over, yet people keep making the same mistakes.  

Good advice is given at the expense of often very busy people; it should be listened to


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## macro junkie

http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/m...ngsidolmale.flv


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## darkspeed

macro junkie said:


> http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/m...ngsidolmale.flv


Damn :blink: 

Thats Friggan Awesome!


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## bugzilla

That video is so cool  . How'd you get him to do that without flying away?


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## macro junkie

bugzilla said:


> That video is so cool  . How'd you get him to do that without flying away?


1 min after that he did..he does that alot tho..il get him out the cage..put him on my hand..and he will flap his wings like u saw in the video for about 1 min..then he flew off..i had all windows and doors shut..


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## Birdfly

Heres my old female from last year doing a similar thing, she flew too but only about a metre and a half and more or less downwards :mellow: 

http://s124.photobucket.com/albums/p17/Bir...ightmuscles.flv


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## macro junkie

Birdfly said:


> Heres my old female from last year doing a similar thing, she flew too but only about a metre and a half and more or less downwards :mellow: http://s124.photobucket.com/albums/p17/Bir...ightmuscles.flv


i saw that vid ages ago..i rember thinking "i hope mine does that"  great vidoe..love there cage..are u still breeding these?


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## Birdfly

Never bred this species, i failed last year, didnt really have enough to fall back on if/when some thing went wrong.

I have ten nymphs at the moment but i will have many more before the year is out.

Hopefully 2008 is the year for me and _Idolomantis_


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## macro junkie

Birdfly said:


> Never bred this species, i failed last year, didnt really have enough to fall back on if/when some thing went wrong.I have ten nymphs at the moment but i will have many more before the year is out.
> 
> Hopefully 2008 is the year for me and _Idolomantis_


ok..well,good luck with them.


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