# How I make fruit fly medium!



## MikhailsDinos

I'm very happy with the results I get from this stuff. I've tried adding more MASA &amp; the mix was to dry, I tried adding more apple sauce &amp; it was to moist.. Only use 6oz of apple sauce &amp; 2oz of MASA.. I just put it in the microwave for 30 seconds &amp; that makes it a little easier to mix the medium.  

I will be selling the MASA with a new fungicide added to it. So all you have to do is add the apple sauce &amp; yeast. You dont have to add vinegar.

First you start with a clean 32 oz container.







All the things you will need.






White vinegar.






Apple sauce.






You will need 6 oz of apple sauce &amp; do not add more than this. Otherwise you will have to much moisture in the medium.






Put the 6 oz of apple sauce in the cup.






MASA, This stuff the flies love!






Add 2oz of MASA to the cup with apple sauce.






Add 1 TBS of white vinegar as a fungicide, It really works well for me!






Honey is a great fungicide too. Plus it makes it a little bit sweeter.






Add a TBS of honey to the cup of medium.

Add 4 drops of dye &amp; dont add more than this... otherwise your maggots will not do so well! I have done lots of tests :lol: The dye is used for seeing the maggots.

A little 2oz cup i'm using.

Put the medium in the 32oz cup.

Add yeast.

Add some coffee filters, So that the maggots have somewhere dry &amp; for the flies to hang out.  

One week later &amp; check all the flies.

I started this culture with just 5 flies... Now look at it!  

Close up...


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## robo mantis

Whats that powder stuff? It has spanish on it i can't read it :lol:


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## MikhailsDinos

lol It's in the mexican food area of your food store..

It's called MASA, It's something like flower for bread.



> Whats that powder stuff? It has spanish on it i can't read it :lol:


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## OGIGA

What's the dye for? Just so it doesn't look so gross?


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## MikhailsDinos

Dye is so that you can see the maggots a little bit better.  



> What's the dye for? Just so it doesn't look so gross?


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## Precious

Thanks for the instruction. Looks like your medium is a good thick consistency - doesn't run when tapping out flies. I cultured tons of d. hydei and d. melanogaster on nothing but mashed potatoe flakes with yeast on top and it worked very well. However, it did go bad (like SUPER-FUNK bad :shock: ) just once. I will incorporate the vinegar/honey and see how it goes.


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## MikhailsDinos

Thank you!  I like this medium becuase they dont get stuck &amp; die. This medium does not go bad if you do the things I have said on here, The only thing it smells like vinegar... I don't mind this smell. The medium I make stays fresh until the maggots have eaten all of it.  Definitely add the vinegar &amp; honey...



> Thanks for the instruction. Looks like your medium is a good thick consistency - doesn't run when tapping out flies. I cultured tons of d. hydei and d. melanogaster on nothing but mashed potatoe flakes with yeast on top and it worked very well. However, it did go bad (like SUPER-FUNK bad :shock: ) just once. I will incorporate the vinegar/honey and see how it goes.


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## asdsdf

Can you replace that masa thingie with flour or cornmeal?


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## joossa

Awesome! All those ingredients are available at Wal-Mart, even the Maseca Masa.

This thread should be a sticky; it’s really helpful!!!! Thank you for sharing your secret with us!


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## OGIGA

I totally need to make some of this. I just added some potato flakes to my runny media and I wonder what will happen.


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## asdsdf

> Awesome! All those ingredients are available at Wal-Mart' date=' even the Maseca Masa. quote']
> 
> Not mine...  So what could I replace it with? Cornmeal? Flour?


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## joossa

> Awesome! All those ingredients are available at Wal-Mart' date=' even the Maseca Masa. quote']
> 
> Not mine...  So what could I replace it with? Cornmeal? Flour?
> 
> 
> 
> I just went to go check my mom’s Maseca Masa. Under ingredients it reads: “Specially ground and dehydrated whole kernel corn and lime. No preservatives added.”
> 
> I do not know if corn meal is the same. I know that in Southern California there are supermarkets called Vallarta; they sell it there.
Click to expand...


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## Djoul

Thank you very much ! I will try that !


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## Rick

Think I will just stick to buying a big bag of the commercial stuff. It's inexpensive.


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## Ben.M

MASA in english is Maise, people often sell maggots for fishing in maise


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## MikhailsDinos

Thank you!  Yep, all the ingredients are at wal-mart &amp; King supers. I can get everything under $20 &amp; it lasts me a long time!

Edit:

You can get the apple sauce for only $3 or $4 for a half a gallon.



> Awesome! All those ingredients are available at Wal-Mart, even the Maseca Masa. This thread should be a sticky; it’s really helpful!!!! Thank you for sharing your secret with us!


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## MikhailsDinos

Give it a try!  I think it would work as well..



> Awesome! All those ingredients are available at Wal-Mart' date=' even the Maseca Masa. quote']
> 
> Not mine...  So what could I replace it with? Cornmeal? Flour?
Click to expand...


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## MikhailsDinos

Yes, Give it a try!  



> Thank you very much ! I will try that !


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## MikhailsDinos

Doing this you save time. But whats the fun in that...  



> Think I will just stick to buying a big bag of the commercial stuff. It's inexpensive.


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## OGIGA

> Think I will just stick to buying a big bag of the commercial stuff. It's inexpensive.


What's this stuff you're talking about?


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## sufistic

This thread is very very useful. The honey tip is fantastic!! Thanks Bro!


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## MikhailsDinos

It's the stuff you buy ready made, All you have to do is add water &amp; yeast.



> Think I will just stick to buying a big bag of the commercial stuff. It's inexpensive.
> 
> 
> 
> What's this stuff you're talking about?
Click to expand...


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## MikhailsDinos

You are welcome! 8)

The Egyptians used honey for their wounds, They found out that if they used honey, That infection would not set in.... Hmm..



> This thread is very very useful. The honey tip is fantastic!! Thanks Bro!


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## OGIGA

> It's the stuff you buy ready made, All you have to do is add water &amp; yeast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Think I will just stick to buying a big bag of the commercial stuff. It's inexpensive.
> 
> 
> 
> What's this stuff you're talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Does it have a name?


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## Ben.M

I will try this soon, thanx for the recipy


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## MikhailsDinos

Nick, has this stuff.  It's just called fruit fly medium.



> Does it have a name?


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## MikhailsDinos

Anytime! 8)



> I will try this soon, thanx for the recipy


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## OGIGA

> Nick, has this stuff.  It's just called fruit fly medium.
> 
> 
> 
> Does it have a name?
Click to expand...

Okay... so mash potato flakes with stuff that smells like peanuts...


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## Ben.M

Right, i've made the medium and put a couple of flys in so i will update on any success


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## mantidDecapitator

Mikhail, thanks so much for this pictorial post! This really seems a foolproof and refined way of growing MASSIVE amounts of fruit flies. I am following your recipe now!


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## MikhailsDinos

Great!  You should see tiny maggots all over the container soon... How did you find putting everything together?



> Right, i've made the medium and put a couple of flys in so i will update on any success


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## MikhailsDinos

Thank you!  I love pictorial posts, It helps a lot when you have the pictures in your mind.  Let me know how it works for you?



> Mikhail, thanks so much for this pictorial post! This really seems a foolproof and refined way of growing MASSIVE amounts of fruit flies. I am following your recipe now!


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## Ben.M

> Great!  You should see tiny maggots all over the container soon... How did you find putting everything together?
> 
> 
> 
> Right, i've made the medium and put a couple of flys in so i will update on any success
Click to expand...

Very easy and plus it doesnt stink like most mediums


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## MikhailsDinos

Yes &amp; I have found that when it's time to clean, All you have to do is rinse the 32 oz container under warm water &amp; the container cleans up nicely.  



> Very easy and plus it doesnt stink like most mediums


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## Rick

> Great!  You should see tiny maggots all over the container soon... How did you find putting everything together?
> 
> 
> 
> Right, i've made the medium and put a couple of flys in so i will update on any success
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very easy and plus it doesnt stink like most mediums
Click to expand...

Never had one stink. If it stink you're doing it wrong. I buy the big bag of commercially made stuff from www.carolina.com


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## Ben.M

It normaly stinks for me but doesnt giv me problems at all, culture last a while and creats loads of flys, that all i need 8)


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## Red

how many filter paper do you use in each culture?

thanks


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## hibiscusmile

I really like the instructional post you did. Very Pro. I have the ff culture from the stores, but you still have to add the yeast and water, so whats the point, the only extra to making it yourself is the honey or sugar and vinegar. That's why I rather make my own, I never run out and have to order and pay shipping, I just set it up and make it. I really did not save any time by trying to use the commercial mix. But as I always say, DSFDF!


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## MikhailsDinos

About 30 or more, Give or take.  



> how many filter paper do you use in each culture?thanks


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## Sparky

How about regular fly mediums?


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## MikhailsDinos

Thank you!  

I agree....  



> I really like the instructional post you did. Very Pro. I have the ff culture from the stores, but you still have to add the yeast and water, so whats the point, the only extra to making it yourself is the honey or sugar and vinegar. That's why I rather make my own, I never run out and have to order and pay shipping, I just set it up and make it. I really did not save any time by trying to use the commercial mix. But as I always say, DSFDF!


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## MikhailsDinos

Are you talking about house flies? If so, Then I would say that you could add the vinegar &amp; honey to the dog food. Then add some water.... I'll have to give this a try.



> How about regular fly mediums?


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## Djoul

> But as I always say, DSFDF!


Sorry I don´t understand that "DSFDF"

Teach me to improve my knowledge :lol:


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## hibiscusmile

Sorry too! different strokes for different folks


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## Dave_B

> honey or sugar and vinegar


If I'm understanding this correctly, the honey does add sweetness but it's primary use is as a fungicide, that is, to help keep the medium from molding; the vinegar also does that. The sugar would feed mold spores.

Thanks to the OP, very comprehensive instructions. I was looking for something like this. The specialty corn flour is likely going to be more commonly available in areas where many Latinos have settled. I'm going to try using a corn flour or meal that is available locally.


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## Sparky

How about for Green Bottle Flies?


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## MikhailsDinos

Thank you!

Yes, you are correct. I only add honey &amp; vinegar to the medium, I cannot say what the sugar will do? I know that the apple sauce in it's self has a lot of sweetness to it. I use the honey as a sweetener / Fungicide, Two in one deal...  ! The Corn flour &amp; meal should work as well. Let me know what happens?

Thanks Mikhail



> honey or sugar and vinegar
> 
> 
> 
> If I'm understanding this correctly, the honey does add sweetness but it's primary use is as a fungicide, that is, to help keep the medium from molding; the vinegar also does that. The sugar would feed mold spores.
> 
> Thanks to the OP, very comprehensive instructions. I was looking for something like this. The specialty corn flour is likely going to be more commonly available in areas where many Latinos have settled. I'm going to try using a corn flour or meal that is available locally.
Click to expand...


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## OGIGA

I add sugar to my stuff to feed the yeast and haven't had mold problems.


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## Manti-Rich

Mikhail: I am now giving your fly culture technique a try. It is interesting to see how the initial flies find the medium, if there is not a clear path to the "good stuff".


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## MikhailsDinos

It looks like sugar works then!  The Yeast feeds off the apple sauce &amp; honey, In the medium I use.



> I add sugar to my stuff to feed the yeast and haven't had mold problems.


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## MikhailsDinos

Very true! Hopefully this will do it for your flies  ..... I know my flies think so...

Let me know how it goes?  



> Mikhail: I am now giving your fly culture technique a try. It is interesting to see how the initial flies find the medium, if there is not a clear path to the "good stuff".


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## Manti-Rich

Mikhail: I am experiencing this: After making up the medium as you say, then introduce the flies. my flies are dying after just a few hours in the container. What are you seeing as far as the activity of the flies after they have found the medium? Are they living for days? What am I doing wrong. I tried a second set of five or six flies and the same thing is observed.

Yours truly,

Rich Sekerman in

Carson, CA


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## Ben.M

Mine hav been in for a couple days and they are all fine, another thing i like about this is that when the flies walk on the medium they dont get stuck at all and it stays gooey


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## MikhailsDinos

Hmm? Are you adding the right stuff? Maybe you should add just a little less of the apple sauce, Or more coffee filters? The flies live for many days on this medium.... It must look &amp; be a little thick when mixing the medium. Add some more flies too.

Edit:

I just made some medium today &amp; had no problem with the medium. Add no more or less of what I have said to use.  



> Mikhail: I am experiencing this: After making up the medium as you say, then introduce the flies. my flies are dying after just a few hours in the container. What are you seeing as far as the activity of the flies after they have found the medium? Are they living for days? What am I doing wrong. I tried a second set of five or six flies and the same thing is observed. Yours truly,
> 
> Rich Sekerman in
> 
> Carson, CA


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## MikhailsDinos

Great! I agree, This is one reason I love this medium... Sounds like you mixed it right.  



> Mine hav been in for a couple days and they are all fine, another thing i like about this is that when the flies walk on the medium they dont get stuck at all and it stays gooey


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## joossa

I have a question: How much yeast do you use? The picture you posted has the small, 7g packet… is this how much you use per culture? Also, do you just sprinkle the yeast on top of the medium?

Thanks. =)


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## MikhailsDinos

Yes, Add the dry yeast strait to the medium. Cover the top with a light sprinkle of yeast, So that the little granules are all over the top, But still you should see the medium through the yeast. I hope this helps?



> I have a question: How much yeast do you use? The picture you posted has the small, 7g packet… is this how much you use per culture? Also, do you just sprinkle the yeast on top of the medium?Thanks. =)


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## Ben.M

> Great! I agree, This is one reason I love this medium... Sounds like you mixed it right.
> 
> 
> 
> Mine hav been in for a couple days and they are all fine, another thing i like about this is that when the flies walk on the medium they dont get stuck at all and it stays gooey
Click to expand...

GD GD  8)


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## buddhistsoldier88

im sure this has been asked but ill do it anyway... could this work for house/ bottle flies? have you tried it and how was your success?


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## Ben.M

This medium wont work for normal flys :roll:


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## Ben.M

Oh and when i checked the culture yesturday there is maggots!!!  , and all the flys are still alive


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## OGIGA

I made 5 cultures on Monday and now maggots are all over the melanogaster cultures. The hydei cultures have just a few small maggots crawling around.


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## MikhailsDinos

Great to hear that it's working for you! I love using this medium, I get really good results form it.



> Oh and when i checked the culture yesturday there is maggots!!!  , and all the flys are still alive


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## MikhailsDinos

Your hydei culture should start growing fast. I use this medium for both my melanogaster &amp; hydei. Both species of flies do very well with this medium. I too made some medium on Monday.  



> I made 5 cultures on Monday and now maggots are all over the melanogaster cultures. The hydei cultures have just a few small maggots crawling around.


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## Asa

Somehow I missed this post, how embarrasing...

I think I'll try it, though I don't even culture my own yet. We need to get you to research some easy housefly breeding stuff.


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## buddhistsoldier88

> Somehow I missed this post, how embarrasing...I think I'll try it, though I don't even culture my own yet. We need to get you to research some easy housefly breeding stuff.


thatd be great!!!!!!


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## Nick Barta

To raise house flies, go to spiderpharm.com, Chuck has a net system he sells to customers. His flies are for the smaller housefly, not the bigger blue bottle fly.

CHEERS!!!

Nick Barta\

Mantisplace.com


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## OGIGA

The melanogaster cultures' larvae have already pupated but the hydei cultures' larvae are still tiny.


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## Red

i used your recipe.... in less than a week loads of maggots but REALLY lots....

THANKS


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## buddhistsoldier88

> To raise house flies, go to spiderpharm.com, Chuck has a net system he sells to customers. His flies are for the smaller housefly, not the bigger blue bottle fly.CHEERS!!!
> 
> Nick Barta\
> 
> Mantisplace.com


What about your cup-o-mantis Nick? Can that be used for blues?


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## MikhailsDinos

Great to hear! It does take hydei culture a little more time to breed. But they have been doing well in this medium for me. I Get hundreds of flies out of it.



> The melanogaster cultures' larvae have already pupated but the hydei cultures' larvae are still tiny.


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## MikhailsDinos

Good stuff!!  



> i used your recipe.... in less than a week loads of maggots but REALLY lots....THANKS


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## MikhailsDinos

I now sell the medium ready made. So anybody that does not want to make it can just get some from my website &amp; I'll make it for you.


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## Asa

> I now sell the medium ready made. So anybody that does not want to make it can just get some from my website &amp; I'll make it for you.


I might just do that.

A word of advice: don't try flour.


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## Ben.M

> I now sell the medium ready made. So anybody that does not want to make it can just get some from my website &amp; I'll make it for you.
> 
> 
> 
> I might just do that.
> 
> A word of advice: don't try flour.
Click to expand...

Seconded :? , i tried that a while ago


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## MikhailsDinos

I've been doing research on Masa &amp; the difference is that flour does don't have Lime. The lime acts like a fungicide as well.

quote="Ben.M"]



> I now sell the medium ready made. So anybody that does not want to make it can just get some from my website &amp; I'll make it for you.
> 
> 
> 
> I might just do that.
> 
> A word of advice: don't try flour.
Click to expand...

Seconded :? ' date=' i tried that a while ago[/quote']


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## asdsdf

What happens? Lol, does it explode with mold?


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## OGIGA

> What happens? Lol, does it explode with mold?


I second this question!


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## Ben.M

Well mine went all gooey and really smelt bad, it wend a bit like a runny bread dough mixture :shock:


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## OGIGA

My melanogaster cultures are doing terrific but my hydei cultures are dying out. Now I'm not even sure if those little things inside are maggots because they haven't grown.


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## Red

i'm pretty sure that it is Acars.

little aracnids which are culture's parasit.

Regards


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## OGIGA

> My melanogaster cultures are doing terrific but my hydei cultures are dying out. Now I'm not even sure if those little things inside are maggots because they haven't grown.


I finally see larvae and pupae but very very few.


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## Gurd

Great tutorial for FF medium B) 

All I have tried so far is an old bruised pear with a few bits of mould growing on it. put in a clean pot with a sprinkle of ready brek on the bottom to absorb water &amp; goo.

Flies I put in there are doing great but I ain't seen any ickle maggies yet, it's been over a wk since I put the flies in  

The 32oz cups you use look about the size of a pint glass, I've got a load of plastic 1's that I'm going to use. I will cover the top with a bit of net curtain and a laccy band.

I will try and get maze powder, if not I'll ask for a bait box full from my local fishing shop when I next get maggies, pinkies &amp; squatts.

Before I start I am going to melt a hole or 2 in the sides with a soildering iorn and stuff a big chunk of sponge in the holes. The I can take flies from the culture without opening the lid and reduce escapees

I use a length of filter tube with a filter on the end (another small bit of net curtain) and stick it into a larger diameter bit of tube to stick in the hole and catch several flies


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## asdsdf

Gurd said:


> Great tutorial for FF medium B) All I have tried so far is an old bruised pear with a few bits of mould growing on it. put in a clean pot with a sprinkle of ready brek on the bottom to absorb water &amp; goo.
> 
> Flies I put in there are doing great but I ain't seen any ickle maggies yet, it's been over a wk since I put the flies in
> 
> The 32oz cups you use look about the size of a pint glass, I've got a load of plastic 1's that I'm going to use. I will cover the top with a bit of net curtain and a laccy band.
> 
> I will try and get maze powder, if not I'll ask for a bait box full from my local fishing shop when I next get maggies, pinkies &amp; squatts.
> 
> Before I start I am going to melt a hole or 2 in the sides with a soildering iorn and stuff a big chunk of sponge in the holes. The I can take flies from the culture without opening the lid and reduce escapees
> 
> I use a length of filter tube with a filter on the end (another small bit of net curtain) and stick it into a larger diameter bit of tube to stick in the hole and catch several flies


Is it a Hydei culture? They don't produce maggots until a while. I know from exp. Put like 10 inside there, and a while later, it totally explodes with maggots. The whole things is practically a writhing mass of maggots.


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## OGIGA

I might as well tell you guys what I do. I use empty plastic water bottles and add shredded Styrofoam plates/trays/boxes instead of coffee filters. For the lid, I cut a hole through the top and hot-glue some sort of screen to it. I just say, this has worked very well for me; very few escapes.


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## darkspeed

Followed the directions to the letter... here is my setup:

















Now the waiting period &lt;_&lt; yay!


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## MikhailsDinos

When you add the vinegar, Add two TBS to the mix. This works better at keeping the Fungus from growing.


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## keelan

newbie question but were do you get you fruit flys from to start your culture? :blink:


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## joossa

DARKSPEED, make sure to keep us updated on how it goes.


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## OGIGA

keelan said:


> newbie question but were do you get you fruit flys from to start your culture? :blink:


I buy them. For the small ones (drosophilia melanogaster), I go to PetCo. I got my larger ones (drosophilia hydei) from Nick, but you can also get them at PetSmart. By the way, these are stores in the US so sorry to everyone outside USA...


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## darkspeed

So far so good... no larvae yet, but its only day 3 since I put around 10 melanogaster's in it. But at least they are all still alive. I got mine from Mr. Clausen @ bugsincyberspace.com, who referred me to this board. His culture was basically just instant mashed potatoes and yeast, and I think I added too much water, as it was really runny... Once the larvae hatched and pupated even though i ended up with 200 or so flies, 150 drowned in the potato soup. I cut my losses, fed 40 or so to our 2 L-4 Giant Asian nymphs, and invested the other 10 into the fresh culture. I like this one alot better, as it is not runny.

I am a bit confused though, because the potato soup media was very specific about using no more than 4 granules of yeast, stating that any more would lead to sterile flies. But this media basically calls for dozens of granules. Im gonna take Mikhails' word, as there has obviously been alot of success with this recipe, but I am still curious as to the scientific explanation of why the two medias call for such drastically different amounts of yeast.

I'll maintain updates and photos of this batch's progress. After this one Ill probably move up to house flies, as these Giant Asian babies grow really frickin fast.


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## Ben.M

I hav the exact same problem with the potato mix, so i just use that mix to get a load for this culture.

And the culture im using at the moment (the same way Mikhails does it) is absolutly exploding with flies so this recipe deffinatly works if mixed right, in fact im gonna make another culture later 2day  

Ben.M

P.s i was told to put 70 grains of yeast in the potato mix and that didnt make them sterile :huh:


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## keelan

i will try to obtain some and start a new culture using this recipe


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## Ben.M

Kenza from BN???


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## keelan

yeap thats me ben hehe


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## MikhailsDinos

Yes,

Adding less yeast helps prevent the flies from getting stuck. But I have not noticed them becoming sterile. I now add less yeast to my cultures, Just two pinches of yeast.


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## darkspeed

Well the first couple of larvae have emerged from the media and begun exploring the inside of the cup. I knew some had hatched earlier when i noticed little tunnels bored through sections of the media. They are still nearly impossible to see within the media, even with the food coloring. I'll post pics when more emerge.


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## darkspeed

Not exactly an explosion of maggots, but definitely not a bad turnout from 10 flies. Certainly enough to continue producing future generations.


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## Ben.M

Giv it time and there will be loads of flies


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## nympho

this mixture is brilliant. i made 3 jam jars full two weeks ago following your measures exactly, and have thousands of maggots in each and lots of pupae from about 20 parent flies in each. it doesnt smell at all yet, apart from being a bit vinegerany. you can get that 'masa' stuff in sainsbury's amazingly; couldnt find apple sauce so i liquidized some apples instead.

one problem; how do you stop the maggots crawling up the sides and either drying up or getting out. i came home and picked one jar to look at how they were doing before realising maggots were all over the lid and sides. nice! :angry: i think its because i put some water in as the mixture looked very dry and crusty on top &lt;_&lt;


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## Ben.M

I've found that u do need to put some water in every now and again as i does dry up(sainsburys sells masa...well thats gonna save me long trips to the garden center, sainsburys is just around the corner from me  )


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## macro junkie

hows every ones culture doing./.im thinking about doing one..all tho i been buying them latley and none of them beats grahams one and his dont smell of vinerger?im going to ask him what he puts in it tomorow


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## nympho

macro junkie said:


> hows every ones culture doing./.im thinking about doing one..all tho i been buying them latley and none of them beats grahams one and his dont smell of vinerger?im going to ask him what he puts in it tomorow


mine are still not smelling bad which is pretty amazing as i made them ages ago. bit of mold growing on top not much tho. the new flies seem to keeping alive for along time in there too


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## macro junkie

nympho said:


> mine are still not smelling bad which is pretty amazing as i made them ages ago. bit of mold growing on top not much tho. the new flies seem to keeping alive for along time in there too


how long does culture last?i had new one sent to me last week,..after about 1 week i had sudden burst of them..i used them up now its died donw..how long do they last ?


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## nympho

macro junkie said:


> how long does culture last?i had new one sent to me last week,..after about 1 week i had sudden burst of them..i used them up now its died donw..how long do they last ?


too many variables to predict, but mainly it depends how long the adults were laying eggs for and how much medium there is for them to eat. if they layed eggs for three weeks before they died then the new flies will hatch out over three weeks not accounting for competition for lower quality food or other issues like dryness which will slow the later ones down. the new flies may possibly lay another generation to prolong the culture


----------



## Matthewtinnion

I started loads of cultures last week using a (power mix - Apple sauce, banana, brewers yeast, potatoe flakes, molasses, water and vineger)

For one of the mediums I put in some old flies from another culture which was already productive, and from the rest I used flies from a culture from Ricks live food, (The flies were newly hatched mainly from Rick)

The difference was amazing after 3 days the older flies culture has a writhing mess of tini maggots and the others have none, after a week there are hundereds of ful sized maggots on the older container walls and a "moving/wriggling medium" where as the newer flies have only one or two tini maggots so far, Needless to say im a bit gutted I only started one culture with the old flies and 6 with the new flies  

I will put some pics up, and a linc to the medium I used in a minute, I would recommend it.


----------



## nympho

Matthewtinnion said:


> I started loads of cultures last week using a (power mix - Apple sauce, banana, brewers yeast, potatoe flakes, molasses, water and vineger)For one of the mediums I put in some old flies from another culture which was already productive, and from the rest I used flies from a culture from Ricks live food, (The flies were newly hatched mainly from Rick)
> 
> The difference was amazing after 3 days the older flies culture has a writhing mess of tini maggots and the others have none, after a week there are hundereds of ful sized maggots on the older container walls and a "moving/wriggling medium" where as the newer flies have only one or two tini maggots so far, Needless to say im a bit gutted I only started one culture with the old flies and 6 with the new flies
> 
> I will put some pics up, and a linc to the medium I used in a minute, I would recommend it.


hi, what temp do you keep them at may i ask. development is quite slow at room temp, i definitely dont see maggots in 3 days. see them after 2 weeks more like. they get there eventually though


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## hibiscusmile

The reason why one gave you maggots is easy. Look closely at the flies crawling around the containers, notice that the older ones have fat white bellys! They are full of eggs and ready to lay, the others (newbies) are not. The only reason you have more maggots in the one is because the older flies have been breeding and the younger ones haven't. It is not the medium that made the difference.


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## macro junkie

Rick said:


> Think I will just stick to buying a big bag of the commercial stuff. It's inexpensive.


no its not...in the uk there 2.50£ per culture,,the amount of mantids i have i need lots of cultures,,makes sense making it my self.i just need a place that sells loads of masa in the uk..


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## asdsdf

Rebecca, for some reason, now the culture I make are stinky(With the mdeium you gave me.)(The first one sent, so it sin't the medium.(Because I've made culture with it.))....They like stink in a day....No mold, no nothing. I even took the liberty of using alcohol to clean my cntainers first...Still smells horrible. That happen to anyone?


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## Sparky

asdsdf said:


> Rebecca, for some reason, now the culture I make are stinky(With the mdeium you gave me.)(The first one sent, so it sin't the medium.(Because I've made culture with it.))....They like stink in a day....No mold, no nothing. I even took the liberty of using alcohol to clean my cntainers first...Still smells horrible. That happen to anyone?


If its in an opened aerated jar or container it will probably smell due to the amount of space its in. The chemical reactions between 2 or more things mixed together can cause things to happen. For example a confined oddly shapend container is less likely to smell than a wide 32 oz container.


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## asdsdf

But then I've always made my culture with the same type of container... :mellow:


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## Sparky

What kind?


----------



## OGIGA

Are you guys talking about D. Hydei or D. Melanogaster to start your cultures? I find that D. melanogasters are pretty fast and D. Hydei take freaking forever.

Also, are you guys washing and reusing old containers? Opening an old container is already kind of scary... I just get a new container. My containers are quite cheap... water bottles.


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## Mantida

The medium I make for my fruit flies with my own stuff always smells like vinegar.

Maybe something got into your medium?


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## macro junkie

Matthewtinnion said:


> I started loads of cultures last week using a (power mix - Apple sauce, banana, brewers yeast, potatoe flakes, molasses, water and vineger)


can i use

Apple sauce, banana, brewers yeast, potatoe flakes, water,vinerger and honey..would that work?i notice u dont use honey?how comes?how is your medium/culture doing?


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## asdsdf

I've always used the 32 ounce thingies. :mellow:


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## Sparky

hey guys, I left my V8 bottle outside and i burned a little hole in it. I guess some fruit flies found they're way in and they multiplied. I don't want to touch it though. Once that bottle is budged. "VOOSH"


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## hibiscusmile

A lot of cultures smell but not all of them, they smell like vinegar or sometimes just moldy. I dont know what causes it, maybe sometimes to much yeast will make them smell too.


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## Moosashi

so, that's an easy way to start a wild flying fruit fly culture, to leave a juice bottle outside with a small hole in it? Could be useful if anyone's fruit fly cultures begin to run low.


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## Gruby626

So can you add flour instead of masa? - I can't buy it here :/


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## OGIGA

Moosashi said:


> so, that's an easy way to start a wild flying fruit fly culture, to leave a juice bottle outside with a small hole in it? Could be useful if anyone's fruit fly cultures begin to run low.


When I was away, I realized that wild fruit flies are in some place and aren't in others. All my fruits can get rotten here and I still have no FFs. But in other regions of this world, when fruits are going bad, FFs are all over it!


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## macro junkie

GRuBaZzZ said:


> So can you add flour instead of masa? - I can't buy it here :/


do what the rest of us do.. order it from http://www.mantisplace.com/


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## mr. mantis

asdsdf said:


> Is it a Hydei culture? They don't produce maggots until a while. I know from exp. Put like 10 inside there, and a while later, it totally explodes with maggots. The whole things is practically a writhing mass of maggots.


I know this post goes back a ways, but it still answers questions. It's been 6 days and still no Hydei maggots.

Waiting impatiently.


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## darkspeed

After three complete failures with the masa mix I decided to try some instant mashed potato cultures. Ive had one complete failure with that, while all the rest have done wonderfully. Apparently there are unseen factors that cause their failure, but I am not sure what, as I always follow the recipes to the letter each and every time.

Due to their slow reproduction, the trick with hydeis is to keep as many cultures as possible going all the time. It is much better to have a surplus of flies than to run out, because if you are depending on just one or two cultures, and one fails you can easily end up with starving mantises. In fact, having a surplus just means you have extras to use to create new cultures with. Once created, its not like a new culture needs alot of attention. They just sit there and mature while you feed out of your cultures that are in production. Then by the time your older cultures are exhausted you have fresh new producers to feed from, and a surplus from them to replace your old cultures with.


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## Mantida

Rob said:


> I know this post goes back a ways, but it still answers questions. It's been 6 days and still no Hydei maggots. Waiting impatiently.


Yes, you are waiting impatiently.  Hydei reproduces slow - it takes at least 2 weeks for you to see maggots.


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## Moosashi

I found the maseca masa at the local Super Walmart, but it seems not all Walmarts carry it? I found it on the baking supplies aisle I think and it wasn't right next to flour or anything, it was kind of between some products that were totally different.


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## OGIGA

I found mine next to the Mexican food stuff.


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## macro junkie

i found mine in canada,. :lol: having it shipped by the master him self MikhailsDinos


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## macro junkie

i made my 1st ever cultures last week..i made 2..potato flakes and water and pinch of yeast...i put about 50 flys in each deli cup.i now have loads of maggots..i wont be buying cultures again.

oh 1 thing..i was reading about wingless or flightless being able to fly after u used them for such a long time..how long until;l this will happen to me?


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## albedoa

I said I would report back on my masa, vinegar, applesauce, and yeast culture. I made it on the 17th and first saw larvae yesterday.  Looking good, and smelling fine.



macro junkie said:


> oh 1 thing..i was reading about wingless or flightless being able to fly after u used them for such a long time..how long until;l this will happen to me?


If this is true, how do places that sell wingless fly culture keep them wingless? Only breed the wingless/flightless ones?


----------



## darkspeed

Im not sure about that one... from what I have read the way you end up with the flying variant is to mix melanogaster and hydei. The combined offspring will have the ability to fly.


----------



## Mantida

Yeah, eventually (we're talking after many generations), they'll regain their ability to fly.


----------



## Moosashi

I think they (industrial producers) keep their flies from flying/developing wings by irradiating them in some way, but I'm not sure. Somehow they are interrupting the protein sequences that code for development of wings in melanogaster and the development of the neural connections to the wing control muscles in hydei. Guess they do something similar to houseflies to produce the curly wing variant? Some mutation that alters the wing tip shape.


----------



## Mantida

I read somewhere they paralyze the wing muscles, and I guess they slowly regain functioning muscles over time.


----------



## OGIGA

Oh... I didn't know that if you mix them two kinds, you'd get a kind that flies. I've been wondering where to get the flying kind because they'd be easier for the mantises to get.


----------



## macro junkie

makes me laugh..thats its inposiball to order flying frute flys in the uk,lol..is that silly or what..i guess theres no market for it..but i want them so bad..i would like to use them on my net cages when i house nymphs in there.like yen pointed out before the wingless and flightless group up in the corners,,it annoys me and my mantids.


----------



## Mantida

Yeah, they'd be nice to use as food, but the only thing is that I'm having trouble with containing/escaping houseflies - I can't imagine how it'd be like if I accidently released an entire culture of FLYING ff's... :blink: :wacko:


----------



## macro junkie

Mantida said:


> Yeah, they'd be nice to use as food, but the only thing is that I'm having trouble with containing/escaping houseflies - I can't imagine how it'd be like if I accidently released an entire culture of FLYING ff's... :blink: :wacko:


yer there a pain..what i do sometimes is have small hole in side and take them out with long tweezers.


----------



## darkspeed

macro junkie said:


> It makes me laugh that its impossible to order flying fruit flies in the UK lol..Is that silly or what?


Well then why dont you just mix them and make your own Scott? then you can just stick a viable culture in your mantis tent and as they hatch out of pupation... viola... never ending all you can eat buffet for your mantis.


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## macro junkie

DARKSPEED said:


> Well then why dont you just mix them and make your own Scott?


u have lost me?make what?


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## MikhailsDinos

Hi everyone!

I'm busy working on a new &amp; approved MASA medium, I'm trying to take the vinegar out. So far the new tests are going well &amp; I have noticed no mildew. But at the moment I still use my original medium with vinegar.


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## Mantida

MikhailsDinos said:


> Hi everyone!I'm busy working on a new &amp; approved MASA medium, I'm trying to take the vinegar out. So far the new tests are going well &amp; I have noticed no mildew. But at the moment I still use my original medium with vinegar.


How come you are trying to take your vinegar out?

The only drawback to this recipe is it seems like the medium dries out pretty fast. I put less masa in this time, so it's kind of runny, but it hasn't started drying out in the first week it was made. So far so good.


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## MikhailsDinos

I would say I'm doing more so for the fun than anything. The vinegar works very well &amp; I still use it. But you are right about the medium drying out to fast, I too add less masa &amp; I add just a little bit more apple sauces. It has been working wonderfully with the two species.

I have not needed to buy a new culture in 6 months now &amp; the flies are still producing like crazy.  



Mantida said:


> How come you are trying to take your vinegar out?The only drawback to this recipe is it seems like the medium dries out pretty fast. I put less masa in this time, so it's kind of runny, but it hasn't started drying out in the first week it was made. So far so good.


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## albedoa

I'd like a vinegar-less recipe.  I walked by my cup yesterday, got a whiff of the mix, and couldn't immediately tell where the odor was coming from. It gets bad.


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## darkspeed

macro junkie said:


> u have lost me?make what?


Mix Melanogaster and Hydei and make your own flying fruit flies.


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## MikhailsDinos

I have found a new fungicide. I will be adding this strait to the MASA, so all you have to do is add the applesauce &amp; the yeast. No vinegar needed.



albedoa said:


> I'd like a vinegar-less recipe.  I walked by my cup yesterday, got a whiff of the mix, and couldn't immediately tell where the odor was coming from. It gets bad.


----------



## MikhailsDinos

Yes, i've tried this &amp; I did get flying fruit flies. It does take two or three generations through.



DARKSPEED said:


> Mix Melanogaster and Hydei and make your own flying fruit flies.


----------



## Mantida

I added a bit less masa and the culture seems to runny this time. I can't seem to get it right... oh well, only one fly has drowned at the moment. Hopefully the maggots will be alright in this media.


----------



## OGIGA

MikhailsDinos said:


> Yes, i've tried this &amp; I did get flying fruit flies. It does take two or three generations through.


So are the new flight-capable flies small like melanogaster or big like hydei? Or somewhere in between?


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## albedoa

MikhailsDinos said:


> I have found a new fungicide. I will be adding this strait to the MASA, so all you have to do is add the applesauce &amp; the yeast. No vinegar needed.


Want to give us a hint as to what the new fungicide is?  I wouldn't mind experimenting, myself.


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## macro junkie

My culture is crammed with magots and casters..I mean really cramed..its gone nuts.i started with about 40 flys and theres so many maggots in there im amazed,trouble is i can see half the food is gone allready.its been about 12 days mayby sinse i made it..i guees next time i need to make one with more food.


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## Moosashi

I fill the 32 ounce deli cups about 1/3 of the way full--Maybe between 1/4 and 1/3 full. I think these cultures last longer but don't produce exactly as fast as the ones the commercial providers sell. Like I orderd one from Josh's frogs and it smelled like cinnamon and was real dark. It produced like crazy but contained less media than I usually put in them so it's running out faster. Also, it's beginning to smell strongly like dirt so I guess they know how long you'll be able to keep it according to smell and only fill it accordingly, lol.


----------



## macro junkie

Moosashi said:


> I fill the 32 ounce deli cups about 1/3 of the way full--Maybe between 1/4 and 1/3 full. I think these cultures last longer but don't produce exactly as fast as the ones the commercial providers sell. Like I orderd one from Josh's frogs and it smelled like cinnamon and was real dark. It produced like crazy but contained less media than I usually put in them so it's running out faster. Also, it's beginning to smell strongly like dirt so I guess they know how long you'll be able to keep it according to smell and only fill it accordingly, lol.


yer i filled up the deli cup 1/8 of the way :lol: il make sure i put more in next time :lol: :blink:


----------



## Gruby626

Can i add just regular mashed apples instead of apple souce? Or there is something more in the apple souce, so I have to buy it?

And I think I will try it with corn flour instead of Masa


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## albedoa

GRuBaZzZ said:


> Can i add just regular mashed apples instead of apple souce? Or there is something more in the apple souce, so I have to buy it?And I think I will try it with corn flour instead of Masa


Apple sauce has sugar added.


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## Moosashi

the masa also has lime added to it though, as far as I can tell from the bag.


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## OGIGA

When I bought my apple sauce, there was a kind that's "regular" and a kind with no sugar added. I got the kind with no sugar added. I don't know if there's anything else added,


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## macro junkie

im getting such good results with potato and yeast i cant see any mix being better than this one.the maggots and casters i have is incredible.Theres so many.iv never bought a culture as packed as this one i made,i will try the masa mix tho soon as it arives in the post.any day now.


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## macro junkie

iv just received 3 cultures from livefoods for good..all the mixture has fallen out its a right mess..the mixture is that runnie soon as the package has been turned upside down by the postmen its all come out the inner tub so theres just a mixture of water caters and maggots..Theres a few maggots in there but no flys..that cause they all drowned because there mixutre is to runnie..these are the 1st ones i have had from them that are this poorly made..im about to email them i expect a refund or replacement or i wont be using them again http://www.livefoodsdirect.co.uk/products.asp?dept=1009


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## macro junkie

its ok there sending me out some replacement cultures..there going to make sure in future the cultures they sale are not as runnie..


----------



## Gruby626

albedoa said:


> Apple sauce has sugar added.


How much sugar per how much apples does it have? It should be written on the box  

thanks


----------



## albedoa

GRuBaZzZ said:


> How much sugar per how much apples does it have? It should be written on the box  thanks


My jar says 25g of sugar per 1/2 cup of apple sauce, but it doesn't say how much of that is natural and how much is the added corn syrup that my particular brand contains. I wasn't thinking about it when I bought the apple sauce, so you might want to check with others to see if they use the all-natural kind. I don't know how much it matters.


----------



## darkspeed

I am doubtful that it matters at all... I always add honey to my mix as an antibacterial agent, and here lately I have been using orange juice as the wettener for the potato mix and replacing vinegar with lemon juice. The key is for sugars and starches to be broken down by the yeast through fermentation, providing uber simple carbohydrates for the maggots to eat. Micromanaging the ingredients down to the grain of sugar doesnt seem worthwhile considering all the other variables at play in determining whether the culture is successful.


----------



## OGIGA

macro junkie said:


> iv just received 3 cultures from livefoods for good..all the mixture has fallen out its a right mess..the mixture is that runnie soon as the package has been turned upside down by the postmen its all come out the inner tub so theres just a mixture of water caters and maggots..Theres a few maggots in there but no flys..that cause they all drowned because there mixutre is to runnie..these are the 1st ones i have had from them that are this poorly made..im about to email them i expect a refund or replacement or i wont be using them again http://www.livefoodsdirect.co.uk/products.asp?dept=1009


If you still want these flies, you can take the maggots and put them into another culture or just another container. By the time you read this, they're probably already taken care of...


----------



## macro junkie

OGIGA said:


> If you still want these flies, you can take the maggots and put them into another culture or just another container. By the time you read this, they're probably already taken care of...


well i have few cultures on the go..the ones i made my self are thriving..i wont be buying them again now i have 2 bags of masa.  i didnt want to mess around with messy cultures full with maggots..i just left the culttures in a room 75f..hoping they sort them selfs out.if not il bin them..thanks for the info tho..


----------



## Gruby626

So i made mine, but i used mashed apple and corn flour - I hope it will work  

Anyway I've put like 10-12 flies in there.

The only thing that wories me is that the coffee filters drained some moisture out of the medium, and they are all wet now - is that normal?

And the yeast has grown since yesterday - is that normal too?


----------



## darkspeed

I have been very pleased with the last batch I whipped up. I used potato flakes, strawberry sunny delight, lemon juice and yeast. I ended up making it a little too wet, and once fermintation set in, I guess the alcohol and water produced rose to the surface. I remedied that by sprinkling potatoe flakes on top. The flies didnt seem to mind, and actually seemed to enjoy the dry surface. After a day or so the new flakes had absorbed the moisture and were a perfect breeding / laying area. So far no sign of fungus has been seen and none of the flies have died. Funny, the culture itself actually smells like dunny d and vodka


----------



## joossa

GRuBaZzZ said:


> The only thing that wories me is that the coffee filters drained some moisture out of the medium, and they are all wet now - is that normal?


Should be normal. One adds the filiters to increase surface area for the flies and to keep the medium from getting to wet (runny).

Tell us how it goes....


----------



## Gruby626

By now it's ok it has 3 days only  the flies are mostly at the top of the container - hope it will work


----------



## darkspeed

This seemed relevant for search purposes...



DARKSPEED said:


> I have some interesting news about my findings from my recent test involving a hydei culture made with milk solids as an ingredient. While it is rather easy to come up with powdered milk, the majority is of a powdered skim variety wheras my experiment was conducted using powdered whole milk. 7 fruit fly cultures were established using potato flakes as the main ingredient during a period of about two weeks. Five of cultures were created first using water and fruit juice as the wetting agent. All cultures were loaded with a warm water / yeast solution and allowed to incubate for several hours before the addition of fruit flies. The last two of the five were made using one tablespoon of powdered milk to one cup of warm water and 1/8 teaspoon of bakers yeast. The solution was allowed to sit for 30 minutes before being split between the two cultures. Beforehand, however the potato medium was made not by mixing potato flakes with warm water, but rather by adding the dry flakes to the container and then slowly adding warm water until the entire meduim had become moist. Then, once the solution was absorbed by the potato meduim, a thin layer of dry potato flakes was added to the surface of the medium to promote a dry surface for the flies to lay in. I would like to point out again that the milk cultures were the last to be made, and they are also the first to hatch. The cultures were all made from the same flies, and have been kept in identical conditions, consisting of high humidity and a steady 85F within a small disconnected refrigerator.Fresh air is constantly pumped into the minifridge via an aquarium air pump, and a single 15 watt light bulb provides all the heat. All of the cultures have large numbers of parent flies, and all are surviving within the cultures with very low mortality rates. Nevertheless, the milk cultures have exploded with maggots, and have already begun to pupate, whereas the five cultures made with either plain water and yeast solutions or water/fruit juice/yeast solutions have yet to even show signs of maggots.
> 
> Not only is this data tremendously promising in the search for a decent smelling housefly culture (They kinda smell like sourdough bread now) but the production rate for D. Hydei is phenominal in the milk cultures. I think I just found my new standby recipe for fruit fly medium. I would greatly appreciate it if some of you other breeders who make your own culture medium would follow these directions with a culture of your own to see if the same results can be reached under the conditions that you typivally keep your cultures in. I'd like to know that this isnt just a fluke.


----------



## hibiscusmile

I will try it in the twilight hours ... I made some this weekend with a mix of potatoes and masa, it has risen like bread :lol: , not real sure what is gonna happen with them, but sure makes me wanna take some butter in the Bugatorium with me  . So I was thinkin that I will leave those cultures alone and just use the flies in the one u suggested. If the maggots show up it was successful and it does not need the flies if they laid in it any way, so I will give em a new culture to breed in and will let u all know what happens.


----------



## bugzilla

I made some culture from the apple sauce/maize mix and put a load of FFs in about 2 weeks ago. Still no sign of maggots though.

How long should it take for them to start to show?

The flies have been mating and are constantly full looking having fed on the yeast &lt;_&lt;


----------



## nympho

bugzilla said:


> I made some culture from the apple sauce/maize mix and put a load of FFs in about 2 weeks ago. Still no sign of maggots though. How long should it take for them to start to show?
> 
> The flies have been mating and are constantly full looking having fed on the yeast &lt;_&lt;


should see small maggots in a few days at a decent temp, say 25 -30c. try raising the temp.


----------



## darkspeed

Both of my milk powder cultures with hydei were a success. The one with Melanogaster was a failure.... my fault tho &lt;_&lt; ... we had a hot day and consequently the temp inside the garage and minifridge I keep the cultures in rose above 100. The high temp killed all the parent flies in the hydei cultures and the melanogaster, as well as the maggots and pupae in the melanogaster culture. The hydei maggots and pupae survived though and now I got loads of new flies. I never had any mold in the three cultures and I have already started three more milk cultures.

One strange thing I observed... We had run out of our heavy duty kitchen paper towels, but we had a whole pkg of those square dinner table napkins, and I used them in the hydei cultures for the maggots to pupate on. After I added them to the containers, the napkins soaked up alot of the moisture that was within the medium... The maggots then decided to eat the napkins :blink: ... I actually had to add another to each container because the maggots completely devoured the first napkins I put in. Wierd little things. :huh:


----------



## OGIGA

bugzilla said:


> I made some culture from the apple sauce/maize mix and put a load of FFs in about 2 weeks ago. Still no sign of maggots though. How long should it take for them to start to show?
> 
> The flies have been mating and are constantly full looking having fed on the yeast &lt;_&lt;


I see maggots after 2 weeks. If not, it's probably not good anymore.


----------



## hibiscusmile

bugzilla said:


> I made some culture from the apple sauce/maize mix and put a load of FFs in about 2 weeks ago. Still no sign of maggots though. How long should it take for them to start to show?
> 
> The flies have been mating and are constantly full looking having fed on the yeast &lt;_&lt;


I have been timing mine, and the mel take seven days to see maggots and the hy's 10!!!


----------



## albedoa

DARKSPEED: How much lemon juice do you use (as a ratio to the other ingredients)? The vinegar is the only thing that bothers me about my mediums because it stinks up my closet, so I'd like to remove that if I could. I enjoy the smell of lemon juice, on the other hand.  

Also, I have to use a 1:1 MASA to apple sauce ratio in order to prevent it from drying out within the first few days. I might even have to start putting in more apple sauce than MASA.


----------



## Ben.M

Lemon juice and vinegar both have about the same ph so i would use the same amount


----------



## OGIGA

MikhailsDinos said:


> Yes, i've tried this &amp; I did get flying fruit flies. It does take two or three generations through.


Okay, well, 1 generation has just passed. I have lots of hydei but very few melanogaster in the container. They don't fly yet. Should I add more melanogaster or should I just leave it?


----------



## darkspeed

albedoa said:


> DARKSPEED: How much lemon juice do you use (as a ratio to the other ingredients)? The vinegar is the only thing that bothers me about my mediums because it stinks up my closet, so I'd like to remove that if I could. I enjoy the smell of lemon juice, on the other hand.  Also, I have to use a 1:1 MASA to apple sauce ratio in order to prevent it from drying out within the first few days. I might even have to start putting in more apple sauce than MASA.


One or two ounces max... like half a shot glass... but it really isnt necessary if you use a warm water / yeast solution and pour it in top of the culture after you mix it up and add it to the container. It will absorb from the top and establish itself before any mold has a chance to.

I'd also like to reiterate that the recipe posted recently still doesnt have any fungus, and is already into its second generation.


----------



## nympho

ive just to experimented with a few milk powder dm ff cultures. the mixture i made was basically rhubarb /apple heated in a pan with skimmed milk powder and a bit of sugar. lots of yeasty water was sprinkled on top. i only used a very thin 5mm layer in a jam jar as they dont seem to go down v deep into it. about 40 adult flies and kept at about 30c. some blue mold formed but basically theyve exploded up the sides like ive never seen before and the molds gone (eaten?). they are the biggest ff maggots ive seen too.  

maybe the protein in the milk is a boost to growth


----------



## macro junkie

not sure why people would want to experiment with culture medium when mash potato yeast and water is all u need to make amazing cultures.


----------



## Ben.M

macro junkie said:


> not sure why people would want to experiment with culture medium when mash potato yeast and water is all u need to make amazing cultures.


Yup, out of the things i've tried thats ones triumphed over all


----------



## nympho

macro junkie said:


> not sure why people would want to experiment with culture medium when mash potato yeast and water is all u need to make amazing cultures.


i'll give it a try. with a bit of milk powder :lol:


----------



## OGIGA

My mash potato cultures have a much higher chance of getting moldy or failing than Mikhails' recipe.


----------



## Ben.M

Not if they have good ventilation


----------



## mrblue

the fact of the matter is everyone swears by their own recipes, yet when followed "to the letter" by someone else, they can fail miserably. i too use mash potato sugar and yeast and it works great for me, but before settling on it i tried plenty of "guaranteed" recipes which all failed. so ig euss what i am saying is it is sometimes necessary to experiment a little to find one that works well for you (regardless of how well it works for other people).


----------



## OGIGA

I'll swear by Mikhails' recipe! :lol:


----------



## hibiscusmile

I have tried the milk in my cultures,and they seem to be doing good, do not know if it is anything extra yet, and I just made some new turkish gliders today, so I will see how these go.


----------



## albedoa

I'm still experimenting, trying to get it right. My latest culture is:

8 tbps apple sauce

6 tbsp masa

2 tbsp lemon juice

2 pinches yeast

My last culture had only one tbsp of lemon juice, and mold is forming pretty rapidly after just four days. Think the extra tbsp will fix that? Also, it _still_ seems to dry a bit fast, even using 4:3 sauce to mesa. What proportions do you guys use?


----------



## albedoa

Sorry to bump this thread, but I have problems no matter what recipe I use. I just switched to a potato flake recipe:

1/2 cup potato

1/2 cup water

2 tbsp. vinegar

pinch of yeast

I've tried this recipe with varying amounts of vinegar, but mold grows _rapidly_ on the surface and kills all of the flies. I haven't heard of anyone else having that problem with potato flakes, and some people said they don't even use vinegar. What could be causing this? I like the potato flakes better than the mesa because it doesn't dry out as fast, but this mold is a real issue.

Edit: Hmm, it looks like the extra tbsp on vinegar is doing the trick. I was only putting 1 tbsp in before.


----------



## Dwaink

Hi,

Can you use apple cider vinegar instead of white vinegar. And how much yeast?

Regards


----------



## OGIGA

Happy Mantis said:


> Hi,Can you use apple cider vinegar instead of white vinegar. And how much yeast?
> 
> Regards


Yeah, you can use that kind of vinegar. And umm, I really don't know how much yeast I put in. It's less than a gram... Umm, I sprinkle until each piece of yeast is about 1mm away from each other, average.


----------



## MikhailsDinos

Hi everyone,

I have been using a new medium. I found it online and it works very well and without the smell.

But I have found you have to use 1 tablespoon of agar and not 1 teaspoon, otherwise it's to runny.

RECIPE #2

"Raising Fruit Flies", Nancy Nehring

Reptiles Magazine, October 1995, pp. 26-28, 30

1 cup water

1 tablespoon cornmeal

1 teaspoon powdered agar

1 tablespoon molasses

1/8 teaspoon calcium proprionate (optional)

1 package bakers yeast

Mix all ingredients except yeast, then heat until boiling. Quickly pour mixture into clean culture jars. Cap and let cool to room temperature. This mixture can be stored in the refridgerator with a tightly capped lid until ready for use. When ready to use, sprinkle a couple granules of baker's yeast on the surface and add fruit flys. Calcium proprionate is a mold inhibitor used in bread.


----------



## Dwaink

MikhailsDinos said:


> Hi everyone,I have been using a new medium. I found it online and it works very well and without the smell.
> 
> But I have found you have to use 1 tablespoon of agar and not 1 teaspoon, otherwise it's to runny.
> 
> RECIPE #2
> 
> "Raising Fruit Flies", Nancy Nehring
> 
> Reptiles Magazine, October 1995, pp. 26-28, 30
> 
> 1 cup water
> 
> 1 tablespoon cornmeal
> 
> 1 teaspoon powdered agar
> 
> 1 tablespoon molasses
> 
> 1/8 teaspoon calcium proprionate (optional)
> 
> 1 package bakers yeast
> 
> Mix all ingredients except yeast, then heat until boiling. Quickly pour mixture into clean culture jars. Cap and let cool to room temperature. This mixture can be stored in the refridgerator with a tightly capped lid until ready for use. When ready to use, sprinkle a couple granules of baker's yeast on the surface and add fruit flys. Calcium proprionate is a mold inhibitor used in bread.


Hi,

Here is my favorite off the web from: Fruitfly culture @ Petfish.

Home Made Culture Recipe:

½ Cup Instant Mashed Potato flakes.

4 tsp. Cornflower.

2 tsp. Active yeast.

½ tsp. Sugar.

Apple Cider Vinegar.

I mix all the dry in a larger portion and when needed add in the Apple Cider Vinegar before I use this. The Apple Cider Vinegar has 2 uses, first it is a good mold inhibitor, and second it helps bind the items together. When ready to mix the dry with the Vinegar you will want to mix it in a 1:1 ratio, it will be the consistency of a dry paste. You don't want it to be too wet, or it will foul your culture.

Regards


----------



## hibiscusmile

All the recipes are good, I started using the calcium proprionate in my cultures because no one here other than me could stand the vinegar smell, I am going to offer on my site to, because if your family is not into feeder bugs, they will whinnnnn every time you use vinegar! &lt;_&lt;


----------



## darkspeed

Ive been using mashed potatoes yeast and Sunny D. There was a thread around here where one of the elite original members of the board was talking about how to add the yeast to warm water to "jump start" it into growing quickly and out competing any chance of mold. I have searched for that thread for hours using every keyword in the thread to no avail, But I suspect that allot of threads on this board become victims of the delete button for one reason or another. Nevertheless, I went one step further and heated the sunny d in the microwave, providing the yeast with moisture, heat and an instant sugar source to grow like crazy. It works well and so far no mold without vinegar. Since I am currently also using wild fruit flies I had several escapees recently and found them hovering around a glass of koolaid a while later. So I decided to get the lil buggers to work for me and set up an open culture using a empty 20 oz bottle. There are now maggots in the culture, so at least the fugitives weren't a total loss.


----------



## OGIGA

I found that mash potatoes, masa, honey, vinegar, and yeast with melanogaster works way too well and doesn't mold. The hydei didn't so well with this though. :mellow:


----------



## hibiscusmile

DARKSPEED said:


> Ive been using mashed potatoes yeast and Sunny D. There was a thread around here where one of the elite original members of the board was talking about how to add the yeast to warm water to "jump start" it into growing quickly and out competing any chance of mold. I have searched for that thread for hours using every keyword in the thread to no avail, But I suspect that allot of threads on this board become victims of the delete button for one reason or another. Nevertheless, I went one step further and heated the sunny d in the microwave, providing the yeast with moisture, heat and an instant sugar source to grow like crazy. It works well and so far no mold without vinegar. Since I am currently also using wild fruit flies I had several escapees recently and found them hovering around a glass of koolaid a while later. So I decided to get the lil buggers to work for me and set up an open culture using a empty 20 oz bottle. There are now maggots in the culture, so at least the fugitives weren't a total loss.


Good idea, I like the flying ones for the gong's cause they like the flying food better.


----------



## OGIGA

Haha, more and more people like flying FFs


----------



## yeatzee

and im trying to find where to get non flying ones &lt;_&lt;


----------



## darkspeed

In July there was literally an outbreak of fruit flies here. They were in everyones face and causing a major nuisance, so much to the point of them making the local paper. They even would pester you if you had insect repellent on, which actually killed them, and you ended up with dead ff's all over you :angry: That is when I figured it was as good a time as any to start a wild culture and not only did I get one heck of a culture, but there is actually two or three different sp. of ff's in my culture. some are very large, larger than golden hydei, and some are as small as melanogaster. They are in varying stages of development now, with big maggots, small maggots, casters, and new flies emerging daily. the main trouble with them is you usually lose a few during transfer to the mantids. I usually transfer 5-10 at a time from the fly bottle to a small vial that just barely fits onside the mouth of the bottle. Moving quickly is the key to keep them from escaping, but they are crafty and will take any opportunity you give them to escape. I actually dropped the vial once and released 15+ at one time.  Nevertheless, there are wild ff's that come in the house from outside as well, so even if I dont lose any there are still cantseeums buzzing about the house. Now that my open culture has been proven, I'll just use them to my advantage untill winter kills them.


----------



## darkspeed

yeatzee said:


> and im trying to find where to get non flying ones &lt;_&lt;


[SIZE=18pt]*Mantisplace*[/SIZE]


----------



## OGIGA

yeatzee said:


> and im trying to find where to get non flying ones &lt;_&lt;


PetCo, PetSmart, lots of places have them.



DARKSPEED said:


> In July there was literally an outbreak of fruit flies here. They were in everyones face and causing a major nuisance, so much to the point of them making the local paper. They even would pester you if you had insect repellent on, which actually killed them, and you ended up with dead ff's all over you :angry: That is when I figured it was as good a time as any to start a wild culture and not only did I get one heck of a culture, but there is actually two or three different sp. of ff's in my culture. some are very large, larger than golden hydei, and some are as small as melanogaster. They are in varying stages of development now, with big maggots, small maggots, casters, and new flies emerging daily. the main trouble with them is you usually lose a few during transfer to the mantids. I usually transfer 5-10 at a time from the fly bottle to a small vial that just barely fits onside the mouth of the bottle. Moving quickly is the key to keep them from escaping, but they are crafty and will take any opportunity you give them to escape. I actually dropped the vial once and released 15+ at one time.  Nevertheless, there are wild ff's that come in the house from outside as well, so even if I dont lose any there are still cantseeums buzzing about the house. Now that my open culture has been proven, I'll just use them to my advantage untill winter kills them.


If you still have the large ones, I'm interested in getting some.


----------



## darkspeed

OGIGA said:


> PetCo, PetSmart, lots of places have them. If you still have the large ones, I'm interested in getting some.


Yes, but I dont really have a way of separating the big ones from the little ones.


----------



## Dwaink

DARKSPEED said:


> Yes, but I dont really have a way of separating the big ones from the little ones.


Hi,

If they are in a vial, jar, etc, cool them down in the fridge. Then separate them. I am currently culturing 4 different types of flies including Golden hydei and have experimented with 10 different formulas so far. I have seen some pet stores sell them for $21.00 when you can usualy get them off Ebay for $4.00. Look around.

Regards


----------



## hibiscusmile

My son was cooking today and took an onion and cut into it and it had little maggots in it. I didn't tell him it was probably from the wild fruit flies in the kitchen, cause right away he will be wanting me to get rid of my flies  . I know that is what it is cause I have been bringing in pears for outside and leaving them on the counter to ripen and they have had a lot of flies in here and I just cleaned it all out and they didn't have nothing else to eat.!!!


----------



## nasty bugger

It shouldn't take much to find a reptile store in or near temecula that carries ff's, that's where I get mine from.

A large, 32 oz, jar is ten bucks. With that and the right culture medium you can fill several of the same size jars, or so I would assume, and will see.


----------



## hibiscusmile

That should be good for quite a few cultures, put about 50 flies in each and wait!


----------



## nasty bugger

hibiscusmile said:


> That should be good for quite a few cultures, put about 50 flies in each and wait!


In the Phoenix area I get ff's from the Arizona Reptile Center. The sell the large 32 oz cups full of them. The petco and petsmart only have small tubes of the flies.

I started the masa applesauce culture on dec 23 and no maggots are visible, but the flies seem to be thriving well.

I put several coffee filters in, maybe too many, and am curious how many filters that successful breeders have used in the 32 oz cups?


----------



## hibiscusmile

I use about 6, but some use a dozen or so, u will see maggots soon.


----------



## nasty bugger

a local brew pub should have some good yeast in the mash they toss. I may look into trying this, mash included, in a culturing medium.

I am proofing a batch of bakers yeast right now, before I add it to the medium culture. Proofing is getting water to around 100 degrees farenheit, and adding yeast. A temperature over 115 degrees will kill the yeast. I'd rather have it too cool and take longer to proof than too hot and kill the yeast outright.

I watched a cooking show that taught how to do this, and they added a pinch of sugar for the yeast to feast on. They said the sugar sped up the proofing.

The yeast is 'proofed' when bubbles start rising from the yeast/water mixture, thus 'proving' it's a viable batch of yeast.


----------



## asylum23

I am very excited about the Masa mix, I whipped up 6 of the 32-oz. containers the other night. We can easily find it here in Las Vegas. I used the Masa, apple sauce, lemon juice, yeast, honey and coffee filters. Actually I figured out everything but the Masa I can buy at the Dollar Tree from now on!

Has anyone tried to add a slice of fruit in with the mix? I always add some fruit to my flies, before I did the mix, they tend to lay their eggs on it. I've had success with apples, peach slices I dried in the sun and bread. They laid their eggs on all of them.

I'm going to try to whip up another batch today because right now I have a lot of adult flies. And it's fun! They have their own room, 2 light sources, filtered water mist, containers, etc. And I'm raising 3 types of mantids, so hopefully this makes them happy. I tried crickets and they really were not too interested in them, surprisingly.

Thanks for all the advice on here!


----------



## revmdn

I think on my next batch I will use Rebecca's cardboard and some protein powder in the mix.


----------



## hibiscusmile

REMIND ME ON YOUR NEXT ORDER TO SEND U some.


----------



## asylum23

Thanks for the Masa recipe!

After about 9 days, 5 of the 6 cultures have maggots laid in them. Many are on the sides of the containers, is that ok or will they dry out?

I also added small apple slices with honey in them, it was right after that the egg laying started. I also have them under a heat lamp, not too hot tho.


----------



## PhilinYuma

asylum23 said:


> Thanks for the Masa recipe!After about 9 days, 5 of the 6 cultures have maggots laid in them. Many are on the sides of the containers, is that ok or will they dry out?
> 
> I also added small apple slices with honey in them, it was right after that the egg laying started. I also have them under a heat lamp, not too hot tho.


That's the place for the maggots to be! You can gauge whether your medium has the right moisture content from where they pupate. If it is too wet, the maggots will climb onto the lid so that they can pupate away from the moisture. If they start to pupate on the medium in an old culture or one that was just made without sufficient liquid, I give the pot a couple of jolts from the mister.

What is all the excitement about masa flour (masa de harina)? It is very common here, of course, so close to the border, but I checked out its nutritional value on Google and wasn't impressed. I think that soy bean flour (thanks for the idea Yen!) has about three times as much second class protein as masa flour. If you are really hot for the stuff, you should probably try to find some masa nixtamalera, which has more niacin and more calcium for the ffs' tiny bones.

Wasn't it Rick who said that making ff media is a simple process? These flies are so successful partly because they can eat almost anything, so unless someone can show me a substantially larger hatch, longer culture life and/or sturdier mantis nymphs as a result of some of these epicurean delights, I shall stick with a nice simple recipe like that in the sticky on this subject. I should add, though, if ever it is late at bight and you know that you have to make some cultures but are felling too lazy, try adding a little whiskey to each pot. Not only does it speed up fermentation, but it is necessary to sample the whiskey before adding it to each pot as quality control. Think I'll make up a few pots tonight...


----------



## lectricblueyes

Just made my first culture using your recipe.  Thanks! I added 30-40 flies, let's see how it goes  

Will report the results!


----------



## PhilinYuma

I've got to tread a bit cautiously on this one. I used to think that the absurd concoctions that so many people come up with, more ingredients than I use in a three course meal, were due to Americans' firm conviction that food = love, but Mija uses even more ingredients, vinegar molasses and rotting bananas in addition to the those mentioned above. I've probably forgotten a few. O.K., Mija, if it works for you, it's got to be fine. But for everyone else, you have to be out of your minds!

As I've said before, I like the Carolina prepared mix, partly because it is simple and partly because the instructions begin: "Dump equal volumes..." Use that, a little yeast (they supply a package) and a thin slice of apple as a bacterial substrate, and you're set.

Reading through this thread, I was struck by the fact, Asylum 23, that "after about 9 days, 5 of the 6 cultures have maggots laid in them."

Did you start off with five flies? If not, then your culture is way, way late or your ambient temperature is way too low. Recently I have been trying a culture medium that I discovered by accident when I was making something else. I semi-crushed a cup of dog food pellets, added two cups of boiling water, and left the soggy mass outside in a bowl covered with cling wrap to cool. And forgot it. Two days later it was cool, moldy and smelled like a brewery, and willd ff's were lined up by batallion, trying to get at it. I keep a small but thriving culture of wild ffs in my kitchen, so I scooped out some of this gunk, put it in a 32oz pot and added a little white wine to attract the flies. I also added a small slice of apple and the usual few grains of yeast, though that was probably redundant. I left it out overnight so the flies could enter the pot, and in the mormning, tossed in a little excelsior and closed the lid and dated it 040109. Right now (040309), the ffs are flying around, having sex and smiling a lot, and I have maggots already climbing up the side of the pot. How much easier, cheaper and effective than that can you get? Huh?

O.K. its's a bit subjective and I'm going to be seriously busy this weekend in the bug room. Next week, I'll set up six cultures, two with the Carolina mix, two with the masa harina concoctoion described in this thread and two with the "funky dog food special." I'll introduse 50 newly purchased wingless mels into each pot (any idea how much work that involves?) and set up six more identical pots, with the addition of vinegar as Christian has suggested, for an equal number of hydei. After the F2 generation ecloses, I'll stun the flies (probably end up killing most of them) and do a body count. And I just hope, Peter, that I get a Special Prize for this! :lol:


----------



## lectricblueyes

Hmm... my new culture doesn't seem to be doing too great. I used this medium and followed your instructions closely.

The medium seems to be developing air pockets. 2/3 of the maybe.. 40 or so fruit flies I added to the container have died. I don't know exactly what is killing them.

I do admit, the culture I am getting these fruit flies from is almost a month old and is dying out itself. Is it simply from this?


----------



## kamakiri

LectricBlueyes said:


> Hmm... my new culture doesn't seem to be doing too great. I used this medium and followed your instructions closely.The medium seems to be developing air pockets. 2/3 of the maybe.. 40 or so fruit flies I added to the container have died. I don't know exactly what is killing them.
> 
> I do admit, the culture I am getting these fruit flies from is almost a month old and is dying out itself. Is it simply from this?


Lots of air pockets generally means too much yeast added. I did that with some of my first batches. I add only a very small pinch now on top. No yeast gets mixed in.

The flies could have drowned if the mix was too wet. I doubt they would have all been too old, but that is also an unlikely possibility.


----------



## lectricblueyes

kamakiri said:


> Lots of air pockets generally means too much yeast added. I did that with some of my first batches. I add only a very small pinch now on top. No yeast gets mixed in.The flies could have drowned if the mix was too wet. I doubt they would have all been too old, but that is also an unlikely possibility.


These instructions say nothing about a "pinch" of yeast or not to mix it in? or am I wrong? I used a whole packet of yeast and DID mix it in. I'll have to re-make it.


----------



## kamakiri

LectricBlueyes said:


> These instructions say nothing about a "pinch" of yeast or not to mix it in? or am I wrong? I used a whole packet of yeast and DID mix it in. I'll have to re-make it.


Eesh. :blink: Yeah, I guess those directions aren't that clear! But I do know now why your flies are ALL dead. That much yeast will use all the oxygen and make a CO2 rich environment. Your flies suffocated to death.  

Some do mix in a bit of yeast, but I don't anymore.

Good luck on your next batch.


----------



## PhilinYuma

kamakiri said:


> Eesh. :blink: Yeah, I guess those directions aren't that clear! But I do know now why your flies are ALL dead. That much yeast will use all the oxygen and make a CO2 rich environment. Your flies suffocated to death.  Some do mix in a bit of yeast, but I don't anymore.
> 
> Good luck on your next batch.


Yes and yes. That's the reason that you have "air pockets" in your medium, David, CO2.

My Funky Dog Food Special fermented so actively, without any yeast, that the magots from one culture started on 040190 are already "climbing the walls" and a few have pupated, but every single adult mel has died. The maggots in the second pot made on the same day are also climbing but none has pupated yet and all or most of the flies are still alive. Why? Because I made a mistake. I recycle my ff pots (yucky, but necessary) and the cloth lid of the first one had become so conaminated that it no longer allows air to pass. Better for the hungry maggots, worse for the flies.

Regardless of all the cute ingredients we use, the bacteria on which the mel larvae feed need plenty of fermenting material.

I doubt that the food microbes are obligate anaerobes (anyone know?) but they would certainly die in an oxygen rich atmosphere, so raising ff's also involves an atmospheric dance where the needs of the food bacteria have to be ballanced against those of the flies. What fun! :lol:


----------



## lectricblueyes

PhilinYuma said:


> Yes and yes. That's the reason that you have "air pockets" in your medium, David, CO2.My Funky Dog Food Special fermented so actively, without any yeast, that the magots from one culture started on 040190 are already "climbing the walls" and a few have pupated, but every single adult mel has died. The maggots in the second pot made on the same day are also climbing but none has pupated yet and all or most of the flies are still alive. Why? Because I made a mistake. I recycle my ff pots (yucky, but necessary) and the cloth lid of the first one had become so conaminated that it no longer allows air to pass. Better for the hungry maggots, worse for the flies.
> 
> Regardless of all the cute ingredients we use, the bacteria on which the mel larvae feed need plenty of fermenting material.
> 
> I doubt that the food microbes are obligate anaerobes (anyone know?) but they would certainly die in an oxygen rich atmosphere, so raising ff's also involves an atmospheric dance where the needs of the food bacteria have to be ballanced against those of the flies. What fun! :lol:


Quite the read. I'm learning  slowly but sure. Thanks.


----------



## lectricblueyes

kamakiri said:


> Eesh. :blink: Yeah, I guess those directions aren't that clear! But I do know now why your flies are ALL dead. That much yeast will use all the oxygen and make a CO2 rich environment. Your flies suffocated to death.  Some do mix in a bit of yeast, but I don't anymore.
> 
> Good luck on your next batch.


k, same ingredients, no yeast this time.


----------



## Rick

:lol:


----------



## lectricblueyes

Rick said:


> :lol:


  I know I know.. if this doesn't work I'll buy the pre-made ooookaaaayyy?


----------



## Rick

LectricBlueyes said:


> I know I know.. if this doesn't work I'll buy the pre-made ooookaaaayyy?


Didn't say a word.


----------



## Katnapper

Rick said:


> Didn't say a word.


Didn't have to. :lol:


----------



## PhilinYuma

Wow, this fruit fly culture stuff must be Very Important and Very Difficult! I think that this is page 12 of this thread.

I have a question.

Up until yesterday, I was adding a little Chardonnay from the carton that I keep in my kitchen to every new pot. I like to add a little of this to my culture medium, and the ffs seem to love it. I also find that it keeps them very happy and peaceful and less likely to attack. Yesterday, though, I ran out (I drank the last four or five glasses [who's counting?] just to make sure that the box was MT) and bought a box of Chablis because it was on sale. Now I am wondering, though. Californian Chablis is a nasty little, characterless wine, and I'm not sure that the ffs will like it. What do you think?

P.S. There is no vintage date on the box, for some reason. Is that a Bad Sign?

Worried in Yuma


----------



## jacksun

PhilinYuma said:


> Wow, this fruit fly culture stuff must be Very Important and Very Difficult! I think that this is page 12 of this thread.I have a question.
> 
> Up until yesterday, I was adding a little Chardonnay from the carton that I keep in my kitchen to every new pot. I like to add a little of this to my culture medium, and the ffs seem to love it. I also find that it keeps them very happy and peaceful and less likely to attack. Yesterday, though, I ran out (I drank the last four or five glasses [who's counting?] just to make sure that the box was MT) and bought a box of Chablis because it was on sale. Now I am wondering, though. Californian Chablis is a nasty little, characterless wine, and I'm not sure that the ffs will like it. What do you think?
> 
> P.S. There is no vintage date on the box, for some reason. Is that a Bad Sign?
> 
> Worried in Yuma


Do you mean is the box a bad sign or the no vintage


----------



## Katnapper

Jacksun said:


> Do you mean is the box a bad sign or the no vintage


I believe Phil is making a joke about the boxed wine being of decent quality with which to make ff cultures... like the fruit flies respond to, and/or care, about the difference!


----------



## jacksun

Katnapper said:


> I believe Phil is making a joke about the boxed wine being of decent quality with which to make ff cultures... like the fruit flies respond to, and/or care, about the difference!


Hmmm....I see, but what threw me off was him saying "I drank the last 4 or 5 glasses....." but I guess that just keeps Phil very happy and peaceful and less likely to attack!

:wub: :lol: :blink:


----------



## PhilinYuma

Jacksun said:


> Hmmm....I see, but what threw me off was him saying "I drank the last 4 or 5 glasses....." but I guess that just keeps Phil very happy and peaceful and less likely to attack! :wub: :lol: :blink:


You guys have waaay too much time on yr hands! It might be spent more fruitfully  in wondering about how fruitflies calculate vintages and what qualities they find desirable:

FF.1 Oh! I see that they've put out their new Chablis!

FF.2 Yes, it was laid up at 12.17p.m. and released thirty seconds ago.

FF.1 (eagerly) So whatdya think?

FF.2 (contemplatively). Nice color. A little agressive on the palate, perhaps a little naive, but feisty, and I like the hint of Brettanomyces; always good. The aftertaste is redolent with strawberries, rotthing cabage and a subtext of CO2. I'm going to put up a couple of cases of this and give it time to mature, maybe as long as 10 minutes.

FF.1 (enthusiasticaly) Wow, you sure know your wines! But it always goes to my head. Think we can go and copulate now?

FF.2(confusedly) Burp?


----------



## jacksun

PhilinYuma said:


> You guys have waaay too much time on yr hands! It might be spent more fruitfully  in wondering about how fruitflies calculate vintages and what qualities they find desirable:FF.1 Oh! I see that they've put out their new Chablis!
> 
> FF.2 Yes, it was laid up at 12.17p.m. and released thirty seconds ago.
> 
> FF.1 (eagerly) So whatdya think?
> 
> FF.2 (contemplatively). Nice color. A little agressive on the palate, perhaps a little naive, but feisty, and I like the hint of Brettanomyces; always good. The aftertaste is redolent with strawberries, rotthing cabage and a subtext of CO2. I'm going to put up a couple of cases of this and give it time to mature, maybe as long as 10 minutes.
> 
> FF.1 (enthusiasticaly) Wow, you sure know your wines! But it always goes to my head. Think we can go and copulate now?
> 
> FF.2(confusedly) Burp?


ROFLMAO!!! :lol:


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## drolkp

i'm trying this method out for the 1st time... today. but i divided into 2 seasoning containers since my openings are smaller &amp; loosing flys sucks!!!! we'll see in a week how they turn out.


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## PhilinYuma

Since we're at post 239 on this topic, drolkp, would you mind telling us which method you are using? The one with masa flour and "dye"?  Some of our younger members were still not born when the first entry was posted!


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## hibiscusmile

:lol: that would be me!


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## PhilinYuma

Some while ago, Christian mentioned using vinegar in his hydei cultures. Mija and I have used this routinely with no spectacular results and last month when the issue of "vinegar flies" came up, we wondered if he was using "old fashioned" vinegar, so recently, I bought a bottle of "cloudy" vinegar from a health food store with the "mother of vinegar," which contains the microbial culture that converts alcoholic apple cyder to vinegar. Nowadays, cyder vinegar is filtered and pasteurized before being bottled for supermarket stores. I got a pint (~1/2 liter) for about $6.00 and titrated the top fluid off and used the gunk at the bottom. The medium consisted of potato flakes, brown sugar and two mushed bananas to make eight cultures. I added about 1 tablespoonful (15ccs) of the vinegar to the top of the medium and let it soak in. Each culture also got a thin slice of apple and a sprinkle of dried yeast.

I prepared eight pots, four of "pure" mels and four "pure" hydei from bought stock. Three of each species had the vinegar added and one did not. The flies were introduced on the third of this month.

The hatch was a huge success, one of the best I remember, but the mels in the vinegar-free pot did as well as those that had it!

The situation was different in the hydei series. Here, the hydei in the three pots with vinegar had all eclosed yesterday, after only eight days, while those in the control pot are all still in the larval/pupal stage with a preponderance of the former. This, too will yield a good number of flies, but the vinegar seems to cut down substantially on the life cycle of this species, at least in culture.

I'll repeat the process today with a variation. I shall set up another eight pots as before and introduce the flies tonight (so as to prevent the chances of conmtamination). Last time, though, I let the pots stand for two days while awaiting a shipment of fresh flies, so I shall set up another eight pots and let them stand for two days before introducing the flies. It may well be that I have accidentally discovered a method of speeding up the flies' (particularly hydei) life cycle!  

Incidentally, Christian, if you read this, can you tell us what type of vinegar you are using and what success you are having with your hydei cultures??


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## OGIGA

With hydei, I discovered that the potato flakes made all the difference. I always got the cheap kind, but not all cheap kinds are the same. There was this one kind that was giving me huge success. When it ran out, I used another kind and didn't work at all.

With that going on with the hydei, my melanogaster cultures experienced no difference.


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## PhilinYuma

OGIGA said:


> With hydei, I discovered that the potato flakes made all the difference. I always got the cheap kind, but not all cheap kinds are the same. There was this one kind that was giving me huge success. When it ran out, I used another kind and didn't work at all.With that going on with the hydei, my melanogaster cultures experienced no difference.


Interesting. I plan on making my own mashed potatoes soon and trying them instead of the flakes. They should be cheaper and provide more consistency. I wonder if anyone has ever given up raising mantids so that they could just concentrate on raising fruit flies?


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## lectricblueyes

PhilinYuma said:


> Interesting. I plan on making my own mashed potatoes soon and trying them instead of the flakes. They should be cheaper and provide more consistency. I wonder if anyone has ever given up raising mantids so that they could just concentrate on raising fruit flies?


When I started this hobby roughly 3 months ago I got my first FF culture from a reptile shop down the street. They charged me $14.95 for a 32oz FF Culture. I still have it and it's still going. No, not as strong as it was originally going and actually.. it doesn't smell bad at all. It was producing a not-so-great number of fruit flies and the lid and the sides of the cup were so dirty, I could barely see inside. So, I pulled out my foam plug and used my misting bottle to spray inside of the fruit fly culture to get some of the gunk off. It actually worked OK. No, it wasn't perfectly clean but... it did clear it up quite a bit. More interestingly, the water caused the fruit fly culture to re-explode with life. I found a few days later that the culture was filled with baby fruit flies! It's never been back to Day #1's population count but it's still alive and I like to use it first before I hit up my new culture.

Now, I have tried the mix here in this forum thread and it was terrible. Since the instructions are missing some specifics which are crucial to manti-noobs like me, I poured a whole packet of yeast into 1 batch of the mix. This caused the mixture to produce too much gas, killing off the 40-something fruit flies I had added. Then, I re-made the mixture and found that after a week it smelled like nasty old wine even though I simply sprinkled a pinch of yeast on the top surface.

After two failures, I've given up on this recipe. The one I bought for $15 that's lasted me 3 months is only mashed potatoes with a bit of blue methane? added to it. I'll ask the guy at the reptile house again... I can't remember the name but it was something like Methane or Methynal 5? anyone know?

Well, I might go out and buy a box of powder mashed potatoes and try to figure out what this anti-mold chemical is.

I just got off the phone with the guy from the reptile house and he said it's a "secret recipe". lol what a dork, his boss told me it was those 2 things.

Anyhow, I'll just buy the pre-made stuff. I'm getting tired of puttering around with something so inconsequential.


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## lectricblueyes

Update: Just got off the phone with the OWNER of the Chicago Reptile House and this is what is in the mix:

1. Mash Potatoes (dry mix)

2. Water

3. Vinegar

4. Methylene Blue

You all know where to get the top 3 ingredients, here is where you get #4 http://www.shop.edsflymeat.com/product.sc;...mp;productId=73.

He says that 2-3 drops of the methylene blue is enough for a 32oz cup and misting the culture once every week is enough to keep it alive. He claims to have seen cultures dwindle down but survive for 6 months. The key is to use the powder instant mashed potato mix because it contains preserves in it that will also help fight mold.


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## PhilinYuma

Hey, "Lectric! You really have been working hard! I think that methylene blue is the "dye" mentioned at the beginning of this thread. A similar dye is available in one of the commercial mixes, and is Heavily Used in the Petco vials. It seems to be possible to get good cultures with or without it though, and I wonderif the extra trouble/expense is worth it. Also, in addition to limiting mold growth, it is mildly bacteriacidal and I wonder if it doesn't retard the fermentation of the yeast. Mija will almost certainly know, so I'll get back to you on that.

Down here, the air is so dry that mold is not much of a problem. Have you had trouble up there in Chi?

Boy, my dog food house fly cultures, which I keep much moister, get really grungy, though!

Keep us updated!


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## Katnapper

Mold inhibitor: Methyl Paraben or vinegar!


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## PhilinYuma

Katnapper said:


> Mold inhibitor: Methyl Paraben or vinegar!


Yeah! But Methyl Paraben is pretty expensive! Don't know how well the vinegar works. I'll try it with (real) mashed poatoes and see!


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## OGIGA

Don't be afraid of vinegar. My flies actually seem happier with vinegar in the mix. Just don't overdo the vinegar because that might not turn out so well. I've simplified my recipe a lot (to save time) and it still works:

Masa + potato flakes + honey + vinegar + water + yeast + flies

I do this all in a water bottle with a modified cap. I used to put substrate in but got lazy and skipped it. Still works fine!


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## [email protected]

OK I thought that Mela's breed faster, but my Hydei are the faster of the 2 it's freaky how many they are makeing . The mela's I have are the yellow wingless ones, the hydei I have are the black with rusty eyes with wings, so I dont know why the mela's aren't wining the race.

A note to get my hydei to take off faster, I take maggots from a older culture, and I sill put ff in the new culture, it take off fast, so if you are ever in need of a fast culyure there you go.

Danny

Ps with my mela's and hydei's I did start them @ the same time no quick start.


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## sbugir

Hey, can you buy Masa at king soopers or safeway...never looked  ?


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## hibiscusmile

Well, I use a little of everything anymore, my cultures scare me cause of the amount of flies in them, not sure, but I think it is the brewers yeast. I use Calcium Propionate for mold control. I am going to sell on my site, ....someday along with the water crystals and the brewers yeast...yea someday when I get the new site done


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## PhilinYuma

lemmiwinks said:


> Hey, can you buy Masa at king soopers or safeway...never looked  ?


You can get it at just about any supermarket that sells regular flour.


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## [email protected]

PhilinYuma said:


> Some while ago, Christian mentioned using vinegar in his hydei cultures. Mija and I have used this routinely with no spectacular results and last month when the issue of "vinegar flies" came up, we wondered if he was using "old fashioned" vinegar, so recently, I bought a bottle of "cloudy" vinegar from a health food store with the "mother of vinegar," which contains the microbial culture that converts alcoholic apple cyder to vinegar. Nowadays, cyder vinegar is filtered and pasteurized before being bottled for supermarket stores. I got a pint (~1/2 liter) for about $6.00 and titrated the top fluid off and used the gunk at the bottom. The medium consisted of potato flakes, brown sugar and two mushed bananas to make eight cultures. I added about 1 tablespoonful (15ccs) of the vinegar to the top of the medium and let it soak in. Each culture also got a thin slice of apple and a sprinkle of dried yeast. I prepared eight pots, four of "pure" mels and four "pure" hydei from bought stock. Three of each species had the vinegar added and one did not. The flies were introduced on the third of this month.
> 
> The hatch was a huge success, one of the best I remember, but the mels in the vinegar-free pot did as well as those that had it!
> 
> The situation was different in the hydei series. Here, the hydei in the three pots with vinegar had all eclosed yesterday, after only eight days, while those in the control pot are all still in the larval/pupal stage with a preponderance of the former. This, too will yield a good number of flies, but the vinegar seems to cut down substantially on the life cycle of this species, at least in culture.
> 
> I'll repeat the process today with a variation. I shall set up another eight pots as before and introduce the flies tonight (so as to prevent the chances of conmtamination). Last time, though, I let the pots stand for two days while awaiting a shipment of fresh flies, so I shall set up another eight pots and let them stand for two days before introducing the flies. It may well be that I have accidentally discovered a method of speeding up the flies' (particularly hydei) life cycle!
> 
> Incidentally, Christian, if you read this, can you tell us what type of vinegar you are using and what success you are having with your hydei cultures??


[SIZE=14pt]Hey Phil did you every find anything out about the vinegar, also are you still useing this same way of makeing culture?[/SIZE]


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## sbugir

Hey,

If i grind cornmeal into a fine powder, will that essentially be masa?


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## PhilinYuma

lemmiwinks said:


> Hey,If i grind cornmeal into a fine powder, will that essentially be masa?


No. Masa can be made from a variety of cereals, corn, wheat and maize, but it has to be treated with slaked lime. Don't even try it!  

If you keep a number of nymphs, you will be making up pots of ff formula every week, at least. You want the process to be as simple as possible and the materials to be easily available. I still think that it is hard to beat Orin's formula in the sticky at the beginning of this section, though you can make the procedure even simpler -- at a price -- by buying a prepared medium like that sold by Carolina Biological. One item that might be useful and is only mentioned by Hibiscusmile, is brewer's yeast (not to be confused with active yeast that is always used). This has been used by labs that need ffs for nearly 100 years.


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## AmandaLynn

lemmiwinks said:


> Hey,If i grind cornmeal into a fine powder, will that essentially be masa?


I've used plain cornmeal and it worked fine.


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## sbugir

PhilinYuma said:


> No. Masa can be made from a variety of cereals, corn, wheat and maize, but it has to be treated with slaked lime. Don't even try it!  If you keep a number of nymphs, you will be making up pots of ff formula every week, at least. You want the process to be as simple as possible and the materials to be easily available. I still think that it is hard to beat Orin's formula in the sticky at the beginning of this section, though you can make the procedure even simpler -- at a price -- by buying a prepared medium like that sold by Carolina Biological. One item that might be useful and is only mentioned by Hibiscusmile, is brewer's yeast (not to be confused with active yeast that is always used). This has been used by labs that need ffs for nearly 100 years.


Thanks Phil for the very informative answer  , way to be educational! I've been using Orin's staple recipe and it seems to be doing well. I'll just stick to that for now. I've only got 7 nymphs whom i feed every other day so it ain't too bad. Anyway, Thank you very much Philinyuma, very much appreciated


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## sbugir

AmandaLynn said:


> I've used plain cornmeal and it worked fine.


Alright, Thank you berry much Amanda


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## agent A

I'm gonna try this medium!


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## PhilinYuma

ArkBlue said:


> [SIZE=14pt]Hey Phil did you every find anything out about the vinegar, also are you still useing this same way of makeing culture?[/SIZE]


Sorry. I missed this. Yes, I still use vinegar, but I found that there was no particular advantage in using cider vinegar with "mother of vinegar" in it. Recently, though, I have been afflicted by a really nasty mould that can start turning a culture medium black within 24 hrs, so currently, I am using the mix sold by Carolina, because it is more mold resistant. I did not find that any changes that I made significantly improved ff yield (mine has always been pretty good) and certainly it didn't "speed up" the hydei life cycle. If you make a hydei culture in which the pupae eclose earlier than usual, you have almost certainly got a culture contaminataed with mels!


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## SGcvn69

Did anyone try oatmeal? I am going out of town in two days and am running low on time on what I can and can't do! My culture has consumed about half of what it came with already. I don't know if it will last till next week?


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## MantidLord

I use baby oatmeal.


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## SGcvn69

Did anyone try oatmeal? I am going out of town in two days and am running low on time on what I can and can't do! My culture has consumed about half of what it came with already. I don't know if it will last till next week?


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## SGcvn69

Oops don't know why that posted again! Sorry!

Baby oatmeal eh? I just got the potato flakes...hopefully it works! I gave them a slice of browning banana too


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## MantidLord

Yeah, the baby oatmeal mainly seems to act so that they don't drown and have something dry to walk on. My basic setup includes: microwaved apple slices and strawberry preserves, red wine vinegar, baby oatmeal, coffee filters, and if I can, a bit of the "original" medium that I bought the flies in. My oldest culture is nearly a month old, and it's doing great.


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## SGcvn69

Has anyone tried beer? I know the fungus gnats I get from my plants love the stuff! If my fiancé doesn't rinse out his beer cans and we have a few in the house that's where they will all be the next day!


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## angelofdeathzz

wow, nice and easy I will try this and post my findings( trying 3 types of medium)


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## Mr.Mantid

I use something similiar for my fruit flys.... I pretty much guestimate applesauce vinegar and oatmeal with a pinch of bakers yeast. works great.


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## lion

Will it be of any benefit if I add my pollen to the mix?


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## massaman

I use vinegar/water with some sugar and yeast and mix this with a few cups of potato flakes and this works pretty good!


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## Arquer053

That MASA thing from maseca is the "flour" used to make tortillas, it is grinded corn with a little salt and lime or quicklime, however you call it. It won't harm your mantis or you, of course. Well, now I've found in this post how to feed both flies (and so my mantises) and me with the same stuff :nuke: :chef: :nuke: 

At least for making tortillas!


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## PhilinYuma

SGcvn69 said:


> Has anyone tried beer? I know the fungus gnats I get from my plants love the stuff! If my fiancé doesn't rinse out his beer cans and we have a few in the house that's where they will all be the next day!


It seems like a terrible waste of good beer! A better substitute is brewers' yeast used in making beer.

Edit: Oops! I should have said "a by-product of making beer."


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## young1

are my flies the only one not eating any of this?

i'm using the medium bought from mantisplace.com and followed the instructions to the tee...all my flies just get caught and die in there =/


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## yoshi9

I don't understand the coffee filter and how you move the maggots or if you move them?


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## packer43064

yoshi9 said:


> I don't understand the coffee filter and how you move the maggots or if you move them?


The coffee filters are just there for the flies to crawl around. You can also use excelsior. You don't need to move maggots or anything.


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## dianaclarke

Hi, I'm new to Mantid Forum. I have one question. Should I leave the yeast on top of the medium or is it ok to mix it in? Also, how much baker's active dry yeast should I use?


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## PhilinYuma

sombrilla said:


> Hi, I'm new to Mantid Forum. I have one question. Should I leave the yeast on top of the medium or is it ok to mix it in? Also, how much baker's active dry yeast should I use?


Most people just sprinkle a pinch on the surface, and since this is yr first time at making the stuff,I suggest that this is the way to go, though an equal amount of sugar will help the yeast to grow, and it is the yeast that the maggots eat. I put 1/2 cup yeast with 1/2 cup of sugar in with 51/2 cups of potato flakes and one cup of brewer's yeast, but that much yeast will make yr mixture 'rise' and that can cause problems.


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## azn567

Can someone differentiate the two types of yeast for me? When they say "yeast" that is mixed into the medium is it brewer's yeast? And the yeast grains that are sprinkled on top of the mixture and NOT mixed in is the active dry yeast for the flies to eat?


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## hibiscusmile

The regular packets one gets to make pizza dough or bread is a brand like Red Star or Reddi yeast, thats the one that u use a few grains for, and as Phil said, either sprinkle on top or most mix in with the liquid. The brewers yeast is used for quick growth in animals and I think some weightlifters and is used for the same reason.


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## angelofdeathzz

hibiscusmile said:


> The regular packets one gets to make pizza dough or bread is a brand like Red Star or Reddi yeast, thats the one that u use a few grains for, and as Phil said, either sprinkle on top or most mix in with the liquid. The brewers yeast is used for quick growth in animals and I think some weightlifters and is used for the same reason.


Now that's a answer to a old question for me as well, I just gave up after a few not so good batches and bought the stuff ready made from Joshsfrogs. Thank's Rebecca!  

The more I know, the more I know there's more I need to know !


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## hibiscusmile

And that for certain is what you know!


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## sporeworld

Becuase it's hard for me to do 10 of the same thing and not change at LEAST ONE of them, here's an alternative to excelsior that I'm testing out. The material has a strage smell to it, but there are nylon versions out there as well... I'll let you know how it goes (at least it won't come out and clog the funnel.


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## hibiscusmile

I used this too, only in white, but problem is if it gets to wet , it collaspes on the maggots, flies and they smother, at least I think they do as you will not get as many as should be there. I havent seen it in brown, where is it from?


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## d17oug18

and that looks like WAY to much lol


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## RevWillie

Made my first hydei culture over the weekend using masa, applesauce, honey, Yen's blend, vinegar, and yeast, with coffee filters and a bit of excelsior on top.

It ended up fairly thick, like stiff mashed potatoes - should I have added water or will it still work?


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## minomantis

I made a fruit fly culture by using oats, blended banana and strawberries, and a 2 tablespoons of vinegar, and then sprinkled yeast after i mixed it all together!! I put my flies in and put the container in my dresser, checked on it in a week and a half and there were TONS of flies in there!


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## Malakyoma

Just started my own experiment today. Didn't have any flightless flies in a culture already so I trapped some standard flying kitchen fruit flies. Mix includes flour, peach juice, oats, vinegar, honey, and a grape for good measure. Looks like I caught about 10 or so when I put the coffee filter over the top. Will see how many I have in a week or so

edit: forgot to say I added a pinch of yeast on top. The mixture ended up being too runny though so I mixed in more oats and therefore mixed the yeast in as well


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## hibiscusmile

only prob with flour is it rises and has air bubbles, which may hold gas, not sure I like that, doesn't work that well, but u bettcha we will be awaiting your answer.


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## Malakyoma

Its certainly a mess. The stuff stuck to the side of the container when I mixed it and Im having a hard time seeing inside now! but I know its attractive to fruit flies because two of them that I didnt manage to catch were actually hanging out on top of it


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## Malakyoma

So I found something with the Hydei cultures I whipped up a few weeks ago. I made 3, each in the same type of container, with the same ratio of oats to juice, but I varied the amount of vinegar I added for mold control. One of them is booming, the other 2 have some very tiny maggots but thats it. The one thats doing really well is the one that I added the least vinegar to. It smells the worst too, but not bad enough to stink up the whole room.


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## hibiscusmile

see how it does keeping the mold down.


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## sinensispsyched

Being a cheapskate, I followed a recipe online which uses oatmeal, applesauce, and vinegar. I've only had it like that since Saturday, so I'm not expecting many flies right now, but does that recipe sound OK?


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## Malakyoma

sinensispsyched said:


> Being a cheapskate, I followed a recipe online which uses oatmeal, applesauce, and vinegar. I've only had it like that since Saturday, so I'm not expecting many flies right now, but does that recipe sound OK?


Similar to mine. I use rolled oats, fruit juice, and vinegar. Like I said above, The culture I used very little vinegar in is doing much better than the others. I followed the advice on the UKmantis forum and added crushed banana/sugar to the 2 that aren't booming. we'll see.

So far my melano's could care less how much vinegar I use. Only the hydei that are picky.


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