# Hunger Strike =(



## Krissim Klaw (Feb 21, 2010)

I come to you, lovely mantis folk, with all your buggy wisdom because my female Euchomonella macrops, Hocus Pocus, hasn't wanted to eat since her last shedding, which occurred on the 15th. She is still a young girl with either 2-3 sheds left to reach adulthood. From what I could tell she emerged perfectly and there were no outward signs I could see of there being a problem. As usual I waited well over 24 hours before introducing some prey. When she didn't show any interest I removed the cricket and didn't think anything off it since I've had mantises in the past who will take a couple days after a shedding for their desire to eat to kick in.

On the third day after her shedding I finally got her interested enough to catch a cricket, but she only took a couple bites before tossing the cricket. This really worried me because I knew she wasn't doing it because she was full. I was hoping it was a fluke, but the next day she did the same thing to another cricket before completely loosing interest in going after other bugs. I tried offering moths and then a small butterfly to see if that would trigger her into wanting to chow down, but she ignored them. I also tried crickets of varying sizes.

Finally yesterday I was getting so worried because she was looking so skinny that I crushed a cricket and held the gooey part up to her mouth. She started to eat and took the cricket from my tweezers, but she only ate part of it before once again tossing it. Right now I'm really at a loss for what is up. On the bright side I haven't seen any attempts at vomiting, and after hand feeding bits of little crickets on 3 seperate occasions I finally saw some mantis poop so things seem to be passing through her system. She also seems to have more than enough energy but she still isn't showing any interest in hunting or a proper appetite when eating. Prior to this she has always had a healthy appetite.

Really if anyone has any suggestions I'm more more than willing to listen to them? This is my first time raising up this species so maybe I'm doing something wrong? Thanks in advance for any insight or advice.

Here's a picture of the pretty girl in question.


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## hibiscusmile (Feb 21, 2010)

When they do this, it is a sign of thirst, give her good squirt of very warm water and if she drinks make sure she has plenty. ps, this species likes water all the time.


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## revmdn (Feb 21, 2010)

The only thing I can think of is, make sure she's hydrated and try and give her a little honey.


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## Krissim Klaw (Feb 21, 2010)

hibiscusmile said:


> When they do this, it is a sign of thirst, give her good squirt of very warm water and if she drinks make sure she has plenty. ps, this species likes water all the time.


I offer them water each day but neither of mine ever show any interest in bending down to drink. Thus, I always mist them and make sure water droplets end up all over all their claws so they will lick it off. With her I have also been offering water via eye dropper several times a day at which she always gives me the stink eye and tries to flick me away. XP


revmdn said:


> The only thing I can think of is, make sure she's hydrated and try and give her a little honey.


Yep, I've been trying my best to make sure she stays nice and hydrated, I also forgot to mention I did initially try a touch of honey to see if that would perk her up.Thank you both for your snippets of info, at least I feel like I have been covering some of the basics. =3


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## hibiscusmile (Feb 21, 2010)

Is she out an about? let her roam for awhile and see if she picks up interest, she should want to drink, I feel this is not a good sign.


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## Krissim Klaw (Feb 21, 2010)

hibiscusmile said:


> Is she out an about? let her roam for awhile and see if she picks up interest, she should want to drink, I feel this is not a good sign.


Well the thing is neither of mine have ever shown any interest in drinking. I've only had one bend down to drink one time and that was her when I first offered water after she arrived in the mail. She has remained highly active and perky. If it weren't for the fact she wasn't eating on her own I would never know there was something wrong with her.


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## Ntsees (Feb 22, 2010)

Krissim Klaw said:


> Well the thing is neither of mine have ever shown any interest in drinking. I've only had one bend down to drink one time and that was her when I first offered water after she arrived in the mail. She has remained highly active and perky. If it weren't for the fact she wasn't eating on her own I would never know there was something wrong with her.


In my experience, when a mantid does bend down to drink, then it probably means it's too thirsty. In any case, you can try to force her to drink by spraying some dew/dropping droplets of water onto the fore-arms and head (between the eyes). They like to keep themselves clean and so dew on their fore-arms/head will make them "drink". I always try to keep my mantids hydrated up to the point where they just shake off the droplet on their fore-arm. And if they do try to clean it, they move their head away with opening mouths as if to give the expression of "yuck, I've had enough water".


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## Krissim Klaw (Feb 22, 2010)

Ntsees said:


> In my experience, when a mantid does bend down to drink, then it probably means it's too thirsty. In any case, you can try to force her to drink by spraying some dew/dropping droplets of water onto the fore-arms and head (between the eyes). They like to keep themselves clean and so dew on their fore-arms/head will make them "drink". I always try to keep my mantids hydrated up to the point where they just shake off the droplet on their fore-arm. And if they do try to clean it, they move their head away with opening mouths as if to give the expression of "yuck, I've had enough water".


A good portion of the time when I spray them that is exactly what they do, flick their claws and look at me in disgust. If they do lick it of the droplets on their claws I tend to spray them again when they are done to make sure they had their fill. Perhaps they never bend down then because I never let them feel thirsty enough to do so. I've had both of my Euchomonella macrops since a few weeks before Christmas and neither of them ever show any interest in bending down to drink. I thought it was odd initially since all other species of mantises I have kept would drink on a regular basis but also still bend down on occasion to drink that way. Since they have gone all this time without issue however I figured they must be getting what they want and need water wise.


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## hibiscusmile (Feb 22, 2010)

Still is strange, mine always go for water, maybe really they are ducks!


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## Krissim Klaw (Feb 22, 2010)

hibiscusmile said:


> Still is strange, mine always go for water, maybe really they are ducks!


Lol meanwhile I've always said mine must have their heads too high up in the clouds to drink.


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## Krissim Klaw (Feb 22, 2010)

Well she finally felt up enough to strike and grab a cricket but once again she only held it for a couple seconds before flicking it away. It's the sort of behavior I would expect form a mantis getting ready to shed or full but she is neither. I'm at a complete loss. I guess the only thing I can do is continue to hand-feed her and see if that is enough to keep her going.


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## Krissim Klaw (Feb 22, 2010)

And I think I may have finally figured it out, I think something is wrong with her mouth/mandibles. After taking her out after she tried for the cricket I noticed that there seemed to be a deformity with the way she was holding her mandibles on the left side. This stood out because I noticed the same thing when she tried to eat a cricket a few days back.

Initially I thought something was wrong, but then after giving her a bit of water and honey all of a sudden her mandibles looked normal again so I thought she was probably just holding them funny for a moment. Seeing it happen again though I think there is a definite problem. That would also explain while she will lap up the gooey parts of food I've been hand feeding her but as soon as she gets to any hard parts tosses the food. I don't know whether the injury could have been a shedding problem either during the actual shedding or with the drying process. That, or perhaps the original cricket she was fed managed to injure her mouth.

On the bright side this would mean that her internal body is functioning fine and I could potentially keep her alive by hand feeding soft food. On the down side however I have no idea what this will mean for her next shedding. Don't know if this is something that will be exacerbated or potentially fixed. There is also a chance depending on how the injury is situated whether it is leaking or open causing problems with some sort of infection to spread or something along that line.

I gave her a bit more water and her mandibles have returned to a normal position again on the left side. For now I plan to keep up with the hand feeding and from there will see what happens.


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## JoeCapricorn (Feb 22, 2010)

Good luck with her! I'm sure by the next molt, or maybe even the molt after, her mandibles will be healed back to normal. Hand feeding isn't always a bad thing, I've always seen as it developing more of a bond between human and mantis :3 and I like to hand feed mantises even if they are healthy.


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## hibiscusmile (Feb 22, 2010)

Good eye, good eye






keep feeding her goo, she will recover in next molt!


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## Krissim Klaw (Feb 22, 2010)

JoeCapricorn said:


> Good luck with her! I'm sure by the next molt, or maybe even the molt after, her mandibles will be healed back to normal. Hand feeding isn't always a bad thing, I've always seen as it developing more of a bond between human and mantis :3 and I like to hand feed mantises even if they are healthy.


Occasionally I find it fun to hand feed them while they are sitting on my hand. Fun to watch them eat. I also really enjoy their company. I have a pretty fake plant I got from Eco Terra that sits on the corner of my desk and I often have one of them perched there while I work at my comp. Thanks for the positive thoughts, I'm feeling more hopeful she will beat this an end up recovering. =3


hibiscusmile said:


> Good eye, good eye
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Will do. As long as it takes I'm more than willing to hand feed her if that will keep her happy, healthy, and give me more time with her. :wub:


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## PhilinYuma (Feb 23, 2010)

This really is a most excellent thread KK! I think that you may have discovered a not uncommon form of post molting dysfunction. A number of members have reported that their mantis has not eaten since molting , and though it will take a little of a killed prey's juices will not eat anything solid. Certainly the mandibles are in a very vulnerable position. There is a central line, the coronal seam that runs from the back to the front of the head as far forward as the center of the eyes dividing it into right and left hemispheres. This seems to act as a "fault line" (a friend pointed out to me that there is actually a split down the line in Phylocrania paradoxa during the molt, though in most mantids, the actual break occors on the dorsum of the thorax), but the labrium and mandible are at the farthest point from this line and most susceptible, apparently, to injury if they get "stuck". With several more molts to go, I hope that yr specimen recovers. A little more humidity might help.

Thanks again for an excellent observation and helpful insight.

Anyone who has trouble with my ungainly description of the position of the coronal seam (suture) might want to look at p.256 of Prete's book.


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## Krissim Klaw (Feb 23, 2010)

PhilinYuma said:


> This really is a most excellent thread KK! I think that you may have discovered a not uncommon form of post molting dysfunction. A number of members have reported that their mantis has not eaten since molting , and though it will take a little of a killed prey's juices will not eat anything solid. Certainly the mandibles are in a very vulnerable position. There is a central line, the coronal seam that runs from the back to the front of the head as far forward as the center of the eyes dividing it into right and left hemispheres. This seems to act as a "fault line" (a friend pointed out to me that there is actually a split down the line in Phylocrania paradoxa during the molt, though in most mantids, the actual break occors on the dorsum of the thorax), but the labrium and mandible are at the farthest point from this line and most susceptible, apparently, to injury if they get "stuck". With several more molts to go, I hope that yr specimen recovers. A little more humidity might help.
> 
> Thanks again for an excellent observation and helpful insight.
> 
> Anyone who has trouble with my ungainly description of the position of the coronal seam (suture) might want to look at p.256 of Prete's book.


Thanks for the info and I will be keeping a close eye on the humidity though I have a sneaking suspicion she may have messed it up while drying. She shed in a nice location, but moved unusually soon after finishing. Usually they hang around for a while right under the skin but she moved to the bottom of the cage with her head literally only millimeters from the floor. At the time I remember even saying to her, you better not mess up her face, eyes, or antennae hanging like that. Now I'm wondering if she did indeed rub her lower mandibles at one point and cause a slight malformation... Oh my silly girl, maybe she just wanted to see if she could be spoiled rotten. :innocent:


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## hibiscusmile (Feb 23, 2010)

haha, thats it, nothing like hurting yourself so u can be hand fed and drugged....humm, drugged!


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## Krissim Klaw (Feb 24, 2010)

Unfortunately things look like they may be getting worse. Initially the malformation in her mouth was only noticeable after she tried eating some hard food. When resting however everything would settle in a fairly normal position. Sadly it seems the continued use of her mouth, even when eating soft food has been slowly worsening the injury. Now even when at rest you can plainly see her mouth is malformed. It looks as if the top portion of her upper lip, the labrum I believe is the technical term, on the left side has been ripped off and you can see the mandibles below. I took some photos so as soon as I have the time I'll upload them.


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## JoeCapricorn (Apr 18, 2010)

One of my mantises is having a hunger strike issue as well.

Baphomet, the one that molted and ended up looking like Igor, but is otherwise "perfect", suddenly stopped eating. I've given him water, but he absolutely will not eat. I even tried honey, but all that did was get him a bit angry because it got on his antennae. He does not look like he is close to molting and it's only been about 2 weeks since his last molt - he is also sub-adult and his wing buds are not bulged. His abdomen is absolutely pancake flat and he hasn't defecated. I gave him water today and he would vomit a bit before sucking that back up. He also vomited when I gave him honey. What does this mean? Is there a way to cure this, or could this be it?


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 19, 2010)

Dont know, doesnt sound good.


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## Schloaty (Apr 19, 2010)

Hey Krissen,

Had your macrops molted out of his/her deformity? I sure hope it made it!


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## massaman (Apr 19, 2010)

I think at this point the mantis may or may not recover and if it is not going to then probably best to give it a descend end that would be best for the mantis either by fridge or by watery burial or by other means!


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## JoeCapricorn (Apr 20, 2010)

While today has been a rough day, there has been what I can only call a mantis miracle today...

Baphomet, who has been ill for the past five days, his abdomen flat as a pancake... suddenly seems to be cured overnight. He eats voraciously, ate five crickets today. The issues of vomiting have not occurred (but those happened when he drank water, not on a regular basis). He still seemed a bit weak, but not as sluggish as a couple nights ago. He almost seems completely back to normal, and each cricket he ate he ate with more enthusiasm. He had five mostly small ones (but the last one was a nice juicy one! :3)


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## Chief Tom (May 12, 2010)

hmmmmmmm....


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