# Dry Heat Subtrate



## spawn (Oct 24, 2007)

I have some Violin Mantids, and I need a more feasible way of creating heat in the tank other than a lamp over head. Right now I have a 100 W Halogen bulb over the tank, but I feel it'll burn out, as bulbs have burnt out in the past, so something more feasible needs to happen. I was thinking about substrate, and how obviously a darker substrate will absorb the heat from the lamp better. Wood chips? Cork bark? I was thinking black sand might work. You know, I'm obviously going for the 30-35 C range here. What have other people used to retain heat, other than a heat mat/rock (not feasible for this terrarium) and strong bulbs. I have considered using a red bulb, but I actually think this will be too hot (it's about 30 cm from the cage top). So, I think substrate is the way to go.

Any and all suggestions appreciated


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## keelan (Oct 24, 2007)

there are heating cables that goes under your substrate i have some by Terra Zone and to regulate the rite temp i use a habistat, but atm im using the cables in the brooder for my quails . hope that helps a bit


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## hibiscusmile (Oct 24, 2007)

Yea heating cable is a good way to go, I use them for my seedlings. But a lot of people who need to keep something warm especially when they are going to be away for a day, will place their containers on top of a refrigerator or freezer or tv, or radio, anything that puts off some heat. In my boudoir our tv sits inside a cubboard with closed doors, even when the tv is off there seems to be a lot of heat inside there, of course the satelite and vcr are in there too, but you get the idea


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## Rick (Oct 24, 2007)

Why do you need extra heat? Is your place cold? Room temps are fine for most mantids.


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## spawn (Oct 25, 2007)

Room temps are not fine for Violin Mantids, as indicated in my first post. I have been using lights for the times I kept Violins in the past for heat, but that only makes the top of the cage so warm. I want to essentially equalize the ambient temperature in there, instead of a hot spot gradient at the top. Female has trouble getting up there anyways because she is so bulky. This is why I was wondering if anyone had experience using *dark* substrates to use for this issue.

And yes, my place is cold. Ambient room temperature does not get above 22 degrees C. Heat is the biggest issue for my husbandry with G. gongyloides.


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## Peter Clausen (Oct 25, 2007)

the Wandering Violin- _Gongylus gongylodes_

I think Rick was trying to point out that heating your cage IS optional. I kept this species back in 2000-2001 and they did okay in my cold basement (slow growing, of course).

Peter


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## spawn (Oct 25, 2007)

Did they lay ooth? What temps are you talking here?


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## Peter Clausen (Oct 25, 2007)

I thought this was a post about the "necessity" of keeping them warm and just wanted to let the community know that it isn't a requirement to keeping them alive or their growth. The previous posts in this thread seemed to indicate that it was a necessity and I wanted to add another member's experience with this species.

However, if this is a post about getting the oothecae to hatch, then you definitely need some heat!

Peter



spawn said:


> Did they lay ooth? What temps are you talking here?


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## hibiscusmile (Oct 25, 2007)

I know I said this above, but I will irritate, you should try the tv in a cubboard idea, if you only use a 13" tv it will put off a lot of heat, the black substrate will only really retain heat if it is spotlighted, as in with sun, a hot light bulb or similar source. Aluminum holds heat very well, heats up fast also, I am not talking about foil, but aluminum sheet, you could line a cubboard with aluminum and put a tv in there with the containers, with doors closed, you should be able to maintain an even temp inside the cubboard. Of course you would want glass in the doors so you could see what was going on. A bookcase, china cabinet, a stand up dresser, almost anything can be used to make this area warm. I have a dresser in my bedroom that has 3 drawers on the bottom and a 2 shelf cubboard w/doors on top. We have a 13" tv in there, a vcr and cable box, even with none of them on they radiate heat, someone even mentioned a computer that throws off heat, of course you would not want to use it for this. Also if you are using bulbs, the thing to do is to make sure one is fairly new, so if one burns out the other is still on. Long ago when my boys were little, we lived on a farm, I made an incubator out of a picnic cooler. It was a large one, like you see today, at least 30" length and 18" wide and 20 " or so deep. I drilled holes one in each side by the handles and hooked up the porceline lighting fixtures one on each side. I put a wire shelf in the bottom and used a plexiglass lid instead of the cooler lid. With this set up, water stayed in the very bottom (small amount, not enough to cover bottom) but enough to keep the eggs in moist air, and I put the eggs in there and kept them at 102 F. and with this setup I hatched turkey, geese, ducks in this incubator. If it got to hot I cracked the lid a little. This took up a couple feet of room, but I kept it for 30 years and it always worked. the babies stayed in there till dry then I would move them, this was with 40 watt bulbs, the temp could be adjusted with lower watt bulbs and some air holes drilled in top of plexiglass. That's 2 of the things I would do. _Hush up Yen  . ((The idol are to large for a set up like this )). I would need a refrigerator sized cooler to do that! He knows what I mean. _

But the cubboard idea would probably work and you could always heat it with a lamp too along with or without the tv, cause the heat as long as the doors stayed closed would heat the whole enclosure.


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## darkspeed (Oct 25, 2007)

alot of pet supply stores keep special little heat pads that you place underneath the enclosure, which allows heat to radiate up through the substrate. This usually leads to a warm dry substrate mimicking the hot desert sands that some reptile species are accustomed to. Im sure as long as you monitor the humidity in your enclosure, your mantid would do fine with one of those... another option is a red glass heat bulb in combo with a regular white light bulb. I also help maintain an emperor scorpion, which is actually from jungle regions as opposed to desert regions as most people assume. They require a steady temperature between 80 and 90 f and a high humitity as well.

We use a red glass / clear glass combo to maintain this. We have discovered that doing this in combo with regular spraying and a combination of both spagnum moss and sand substrate that the humidity is easily maintained, as sand will actually retain moisture for quite some time in a glass enclosure. Hope this helps


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## spawn (Oct 25, 2007)

*What have other people used to retain heat, [SIZE=12pt]other than [/SIZE]a heat mat/rock (not feasible for this terrarium) and [SIZE=12pt]strong bulbs[/SIZE]*

Peter, I don't understand your post: did they lay ooths or not?

I should have made this clearer now in the first post -- I am only looking for suggestions from members with experiences in substrates, NOTHING else. I got posts about cupboards and light bulbs like I don't know anything about common physics and energy transfer. I made the thread to seek out practical substrate use because I am running dry on ideas (no pun intended). I am avoiding jacking up power in other sources (heat mats/bulbs) for other reasons not relevant to the thread. I have become particularly frustrated with this thread's responses considering the first post to my question(s) (which defined that I do not want a "heat mat [or cable]" or information about bulbs) listed a heating cable, but I guess I wasn't specific enough. I keep _several_ other animals and realize the importance of light bulbs and heating utilities. But I do appreciate the effort set forth.


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## Andrew (Oct 26, 2007)

Sounds like you're pretty much asking for the impossible. Other than the sun(lol), bulbs, wires, mats, I don't see what else there is thats practical.

Have you considered the ceramic "bulbs" for herps? That may create a more even distribution of heat.

If you want something to absorb heat, black sand would be the way to go. Its doubtful anything else would work as well.


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## spawn (Oct 26, 2007)

I am buying a ceramic bulb this weekend to try it out. As for black sand, is there a particular blend or brand to look for that you know of? I do think I have seen it in petstores before, but I can't remember if I was looking at gravel either haha, so I'm lost on that.


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## Andrew (Oct 26, 2007)

I've definately seen black sand in pet stores before, I think it may have been T-Rex, so it was intended for reptiles. Now that I think about it, it may have been that calci-sand stuff. I don't remember well because I generally make a habit to try and avoid the stuff.


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## Rob Byatt (Oct 26, 2007)

Spawn,

we've discussed this on another forum but I'll just recap here  

You really need to stop worrying about trying to get the heat uniform throughout the height of the enclosure. One 40W bulb will be more than enough to heat a well ventilated enclosure to 35-40C.

Creating a hot spot (nearer to the bulb obviously) will give the mantids the opportunity to regulate what temperature they want.

Don't waste your time and money buying a ceramic bulb, nor waste anymore time trying to heat the base of the enclosure by radiating heat.

It's always best to listen to those that have reared and bred this species.......now where is Sheldon and Martin.........


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## Sheldon Johnson (Oct 26, 2007)

Rob is right, dont worry about heating from the ground up, use a lamp.

Gongylus always go to the highest/most stable point they can find within a temperature range which is suitable to them. So just give them a heat lamp and a well vented tank. If you find that all of the gongy are bunching near the lamp, put in a higher watt bulb to make the gradient wider and more diverse, thus allowing them to spread out more. Be warned, bunching will cause problems for each other when moulting.

You will generally find that in a colony, some will prefer it cooler, whilst others will spend 90% of their life as close to a heat source as they can be.

Got to make it quick im at work. Yay for non filtered internet!


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## Malnra (Oct 29, 2007)

When mulch decomposes it generates heat. Occasionally mulch piles will actually catch fire. You might look up when needs to be done (if anything) to mulch to make it do that AND how deep you would have to have it.

I realize this is not a finished answer, but it hopefully gives you a starting point with the mulch self heating.

If you strike out finding anything on this, shoot a note and I will also take a peek. Sometimes 4 eyes ARE better than 2 .. hehe


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