# Excelsior substitue?



## JTHMfreak (Apr 5, 2013)

So I did my first attempt at a culture of ffs. I did not have any proper excelsior so I used some uncooked fettucini noodle that were really wavy and curly. Anyone think I will run into any problems with this? It looks like there is more than enough area for breeding and larvae.


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## fleurdejoo (Apr 5, 2013)

Use coffee filters instead.


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## TheOtherSpecies (Apr 5, 2013)

or tall dead grass!


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 5, 2013)

I was going to do that but could not find any good how to's on it. Unfornately my account on this site was not approved in time and I had to do something With the last bit of my ffs to start a new culture.


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## Introvertebrate (Apr 5, 2013)

TheOtherSpecies said:


> or tall dead grass!


What, and not spend money?  I like that idea.


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## angelofdeathzz (Apr 5, 2013)

Coffee filters gets the nod. Heavy cardbroard strips is a good 2nd, anything non-toxic that will hold up to moisture and gives a multi climbing surface.


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 5, 2013)

How do you do the coffee filters? Any certain way to scrunch them up?


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## angelofdeathzz (Apr 5, 2013)

_fold in half then again (quartered) stick the point in the media, use 2 or 3 and it will mosty fill a 32oz deli._


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 5, 2013)

You can also use tolit paper roll that holds the paper. Even an orange peel will work, also use some mashed potatoes with a spoon of vinegar for the medium with a spoon of sugar or honey if you have it, a noodle wont' do.


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 5, 2013)

angelofdeathzz said:


> _fold in half then again (quartered) stick the point in the media, use 2 or 3 and it will mosty fill a 32oz deli._


How many do I put in a stack to fold?


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 5, 2013)

use 3 or 4, or some of them dried up noodles :tt2:


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 5, 2013)

hibiscusmile said:


> You can also use tolit paper roll that holds the paper. Even an orange peel will work, also use some mashed potatoes with a spoon of vinegar for the medium with a spoon of sugar or honey if you have it, a noodle wont' do.


Even though there is an huge area for mating/egg laying/whatever it is that they do?


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 5, 2013)

Have you cked out my post on making the fruit fly cultures? You would use about 1/2 cup mashed potatoes, (instant is fine) and add the other items to it, also will need a few grains of regular yeast to add to mixture. Then add the flies and u will have plenty.


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 5, 2013)

Here is the link, took forever to find it.

OH dear God, it didn't copy it! :taz:


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 5, 2013)

What the heck! still didn't well it is on page 21 under the Bugatorium post. have to put that in search bar and look for Bugatorium then go to page 21. must rest now.... :sleeping:


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 5, 2013)

hibiscusmile said:


> Have you cked out my post on making the fruit fly cultures? You would use about 1/2 cup mashed potatoes, (instant is fine) and add the other items to it, also will need a few grains of regular yeast to add to mixture. Then add the flies and u will have plenty.


I have the culture media, I was just trying to find out if using uncooked noodles would be fine for the flies to walk on and such.


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 5, 2013)

oh! I thought u were using the noodle as culture, I read to fast!


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## Tony C (Apr 5, 2013)

JTHMfreak said:


> I have the culture media, I was just trying to find out if using uncooked noodles would be fine for the flies to walk on and such.


It shouldn't hurt anything on its own, but keep an eye out for mold.


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## angelofdeathzz (Apr 5, 2013)

Put the filters one at a time spread out, the filters should look pie shaped with a point to stick in.


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## Qwiggalo (Apr 7, 2013)

My flies do fine with just culture.


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## Mvalenz (Apr 7, 2013)

I use coffee filters. I have used thinly shredded tamale corn husks before. They work well for ff cultures. Not so much for nymph enclosures though. They seem to mold from the daily misting of nymphs.


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## nursejohio (Dec 29, 2014)

I've just started culturing my own ffs, and was oddly grossed out by the coffee filters after a few days. I bought a package of plastic canvas mesh (the stuff my grandma made tissue box covers with, lol) and cut pieces to fit inside my deli containers. I hot glued them together to form a larvae jungle gym, and just started a third generation culture from the adults. Seems to be working well, and doesn't make me squirm when I look at them. :shifty:


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## dmina (Dec 29, 2014)

got pictures? sounds interesting...


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## CosbyArt (Dec 30, 2014)

I've been using Spanish moss myself in new cultures, and the fly cultures have been doing fine (recently gotten eggs, larva, and now more adults in them).

I just buy it in craft/hobby section of the dollar stores in bags for $1. Mine are free of and scents/fragrance and such, just dried moss. The bags are big enough to do about 12 new cultures. Only problem I have with it, is when I tear it to size many small pieces will crumble off. So I simply tear them over the trash can and shake my bundle to ensure it is lose piece free.


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## CosbyArt (Dec 30, 2014)

Thought I'd better show mine as well before someone asked for a photo. The photo was taken shortly after starting the culture so it isn't brimming with flies like they are now.  

I buy my 32 ounce deli cups from Dollar Tree (they sell them 3 for $1). I cut a round hole out of the lid and hot glue a coffee filter on the lid. I then mix-up some of my own custom fruit fly food recipe and put into the cup. I tear off a handful of dried Spanish moss and put in the cup, along with about 50 of whatever species of fruit fly I am making a culture for. Wait about 2 weeks and they are ready to use as feeders.


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## nursejohio (Dec 31, 2014)

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n175/phriedom/Our%20pack/E6791E7C-A26B-405C-8DCE-F2FC67BBACE1_zpsizljejkj.jpg http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n175/phriedom/Our%20pack/4664126B-E418-4E2D-8C15-AD6A87FBB5FE_zpsvnok8mja.jpg

Well, those were supposed to be the actual pictures. I'm obviously not as computer literate as I thought :-/


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## CosbyArt (Dec 31, 2014)

Very nice idea with the plastic canvas mesh - no mess and don't have to buy more when restarting the cup.  



nursejohio said:


> http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n175/phriedom/Our%20pack/E6791E7C-A26B-405C-8DCE-F2FC67BBACE1_zpsizljejkj.jpg http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n175/phriedom/Our%20pack/4664126B-E418-4E2D-8C15-AD6A87FBB5FE_zpsvnok8mja.jpg
> 
> Well, those were supposed to be the actual pictures. I'm obviously not as computer literate as I thought :-/


Here I wrote this up for you, and took some screenshots too, to explain how to add a photo to your message post.


To post a image copy the Direct photo link from your Photobucket image.
Click the photo icon in the forum reply below the red A and Smiley icons (hover over to verify description).
Then paste your image link in the pop-up URL and click the OK.
Your finished!
Click the image to expand to fullsize


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## Darkrai283 (Dec 31, 2014)

I use cotton balls. Hella cheap and easy to find in most supermarkets.

It works well as you can see in a video of one of my cultures which I started with 25-30 flies...


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## CosbyArt (Dec 31, 2014)

Darkrai283 said:


> I use cotton balls. Hella cheap and easy to find in most supermarkets.
> 
> It works well as you can see in a video of one of my cultures which I started with 25-30 flies...


That is an *insane* amount of flies! What are you using for food?!



Would love for my cultures to look like that, would only have to have a couple on hand then. Also no worries of a crash with that many.


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## dmina (Jan 2, 2015)

Darkrai283 said:


> I use cotton balls. Hella cheap and easy to find in most supermarkets.
> 
> It works well as you can see in a video of one of my cultures which I started with 25-30 flies...


Wow... You are good! and fast! What is your Fruit fly culture mixture? if you do not mind me asking...


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## dmina (Jan 2, 2015)

I also like your little containers... How long does that last? and can you post a pic of the container setup? that video was very fast... Thanks


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## Darkrai283 (Jan 3, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> That is an *insane* amount of flies! What are you using for food?!
> 
> 
> 
> Would love for my cultures to look like that, would only have to have a couple on hand then. Also no worries of a crash with that many.





dmina said:


> Wow... You are good! and fast! What is your Fruit fly culture mixture? if you do not mind me asking...


Cheap instant mashed potato flakes, caster/brown sugar and white sugar in the ratio of 4:1:1.

After the mixture cools, I also sprinkle a bit of active yeast and the yeast inhibits the growth of nasty bacteria and fungi until the larvae hatch.



dmina said:


> I also like your little containers... How long does that last? and can you post a pic of the container setup? that video was very fast... Thanks


I'm re-using containers which I get my mantids and other inverts in and that container in the video is what I got some mantids in from a French guy... so I'm guessing that the containers are from a French catering company. The one in the video has lasted a good 5 or 6 generations of Drosophila hydei.


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## dmina (Jan 3, 2015)

Great... thank you... sounds easy enough... Yeah... I got a container like that from someone in Germany... Must be a Euro thing...


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## CosbyArt (Jan 3, 2015)

Darkrai283 said:


> Cheap instant mashed potato flakes, caster/brown sugar and white sugar in the ratio of 4:1:1.
> 
> After the mixture cools, I also sprinkle a bit of active yeast and the yeast inhibits the growth of nasty bacteria and fungi until the larvae hatch.


Many thanks for sharing your recipe, I appreciate it.





I just mixed-up a batch yesterday using yet another recipe, as my original batch of fly cultures died off (out of food). I keep two generations going of all my species - a group just started and another about 3 weeks along. I'll be sure to give yours a try next round. I did however try out cotton balls in couple though yesterday. to compare the two


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## CosbyArt (Jan 21, 2015)

Darkrai283 said:


> I use cotton balls. Hella cheap and easy to find in most supermarkets.





CosbyArt said:


> I just mixed-up a batch yesterday using yet another recipe, as my original batch of fly cultures died off (out of food). I keep two generations going of all my species - a group just started and another about 3 weeks along. I'll be sure to give yours a try next round. I did however try out cotton balls in couple though yesterday. to compare the two


As mentioned I used cotton balls in three of my fruit fly cups, and my standard Spanish moss in the other three awhile back - one of each type and species. I kept everything else the same - the amount of food mix, same food used, amount of flies to start the culture, kept at the same location side-by-side, etc.

Well there was a definite result to be seen now 18 days later, just a few days beyond the typical recommended 2 week culture start-up period.

The cultures with the cotton balls, in all three species (Melanogaster, Turkish Glider, and Hydei), has five times more flies than the others with the Spanish moss, if not more. The pictures don't do it justice but there is a major difference, the flies just won't hold still for the photos.

If I didn't have mantis nymphs that will soon be fed from the cultures I would freeze the flies and weigh them for definite results - perhaps in the future I will do that for solid results.

So many thanks to Darkrai283 for the idea of the cotton balls as the flies do better with them (and yes the cultures have more flies than my original excelsior wood cultures too).

Here are a few photos of the results. The Spanish moss culture is on the left, and cotton balls on the right of the photos. I shook all the flies in both to the lids for comparison.


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## dmina (Jan 21, 2015)

Wow that is interesting... I think I am switching to cotton balls! Thanks for your effort Thomas..


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## CosbyArt (Jan 22, 2015)

dmina said:


> Wow that is interesting... I think I am switching to cotton balls! Thanks for your effort Thomas..


At least try it for yourself as you should have the same results. I remembered this thread and took the photos as I was making another batch of cultures today, and all 9 of my new cultures are using cotton balls.


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## mrskatix (Jan 22, 2015)

I've been hunting for tips on cultures, I struggle to keep Hydeis in high numbers. No idea why I didnt start here...shame on me for wasting my own time. Thanks everyone for the info.  Any advice thou on mites? I've lost way to many cultures to them, i use that insect paper, but it seems to be not as effective as it used to be. Maybe just buy more and start fresh???


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## dmina (Jan 22, 2015)

I had a mite infestation.. I did a good sanitizing... started over... and got mites again.. I think it just happens... now I keep them in a separate area... and they are doing fine so far...


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## Darkrai283 (Jan 22, 2015)

Great to hear that the cotton balls are working well CosbyArt.


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## idologrl (Jan 25, 2015)

Hey if your looking for cheap 32 oz and 16 oz deli cups with lids go to a store that has a deli shop. I get 10 32. oz cups with lids for $3.50.. They are high quality because they have to be able to store food.. Just a thought


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## LAME (Jan 30, 2015)

I'm also switching over to the cottonball method, made a fresh culture lastnight. Eager to see the results =D


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## LAME (Feb 14, 2015)

So... I used the cottonball method with the medium posted on the forum and also the one provided by CosbyArt. I gotta say... MASSIVELY increased numbers.

I'll never buy a culture again! Lol... But seriously, I'm impressed.. Beyond.. I'm mind blown!


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## Darkrai283 (Feb 14, 2015)

Glad to see that more and more are having success with my method and I told ya guys and gals that the cotton ball works wonders.  

I actually read the cotton ball substitute thing from somebody on the UK mantis forum so the credit goes to him/her (I can't remember Who exactly it was). However, the yield of flies was still pretty small with the substrate he/she had written down... So I tried the cotton balls with my own personal mix and found out that it was waaay better.  

BTW, has anybody tried to substitute the mashed potato for porridge oats or something similar?

*I also typed in the wrong ratio of the components of the substrate in one of my previous posts here. I made a new batch today and something didn't match up lol. It's a ratio of 6:1:1 and not 4:1:1.*


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## LAME (Feb 15, 2015)

I have not, though I have been adding additional ingredients such as applesauce, mashed bananas, pears,etc... And am able to get a "fruit purée" from my job that I'm currently using now to see how it works (made today.)

Honestly it seems if you add applesauce or something equivalent to the medium you get better results.... Well, at least that's what "I" have noticed.

I tried a culture with the same mix before, but without the cotton balls... It worked but not a lot of flies produced. Hopefully this time around it'll provide better results.


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## dmina (Feb 15, 2015)

Darkrai283 said:


> Glad to see that more and more are having success with my method and I told ya guys and gals that the cotton ball works wonders.
> 
> I actually read the cotton ball substitute thing from somebody on the UK mantis forum so the credit goes to him/her (I can't remember Who exactly it was). However, the yield of flies was still pretty small with the substrate he/she had written down... So I tried the cotton balls with my own personal mix and found out that it was waaay better.
> 
> ...


How much water, do you add?...


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## MantidBro (Feb 16, 2015)

Darkrai283 said:


> I use cotton balls. Hella cheap and easy to find in most supermarkets.
> 
> It works well as you can see in a video of one of my cultures which I started with 25-30 flies...


Hoooly


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## LAME (Feb 16, 2015)

@Dmina,

usually I mix the oatmeal and potato flakes with hot water until its just a tad runnier than regular mashed potatoes. You don't want it so thin its like water,yet not so thick (clumpy)... I add applesauce brown sugar and regular sugar to mine, then yeast to finish it.

I usually allow mine to sit and "proof" before adding my flies into the feeder container. Maybe just me... But I've noticed alot of deaths if I add the flies in right away, so I wait a few hours before adding them.

Edit: Water usage really depends on how much medium you're actually making. I only make small batches at a time when/if need be.


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## CosbyArt (Feb 16, 2015)

LAME said:


> I usually allow mine to sit and "proof" before adding my flies into the feeder container. Maybe just me... But I've noticed alot of deaths if I add the flies in right away, so I wait a few hours before adding them.


I actually do this as well. The mix seems to solidify a bit more, and the outer layer seems to "crust" up a bit. It definitely saves many fly lives - even when I used commercial FF food.


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## Darkrai283 (Feb 17, 2015)

dmina said:


> How much water, do you add?...


A little more than what I would add to make mashed potato using those flakes so that it's a little runnier. Instead of boiling water in the kettle then adding it to the dry mix (the potato + brown sug + white sug), I microwave it for 30-60 seconds until the mixture 'feels right'.

Right after I take it out of the microwave, I pour the hot mixture into the containers and wait half an hour for the mixture to cool as anything you put on it will sink right down (it solidifies a little once cooled down) . After it cools, I sprinkle a little active, dry yeast on the top to prevent fungal outbreaks before the larvae can produce the anti-fungal substance themselves... then in goes the cotton balls then the flies.

By the time the first few of the larvae have started pupating, the cotton balls on the bottom will have sunk down a little and the volume would have been lost so it's advisable to top the culture up with a few more to give the late-comers a place to pupate in.




LAME said:


> *Currently owning:*
> 
> - Tenodera Sinensis. [ X ]
> 
> ...


BTW, you've got the binoms a tiny bit wrong.  

In all bionomial nomenclatures, only the genus is capitalised while the species name, subspecies, etc are all lower case.
So it should be (you can C+P it):

- Tenodera sinensis. [ X ]
- Parasphendale agrionina. [ X ]
- Stagmomantis carolina. [ X ]
- Phyllocrania paradoxa.
- Sphodromantis viridis.
- Hierodula xishaensis.
- Acromantis japonica.

Here's a quote from Wiki:"In modern usage, the first letter of the first part of the name, the genus, is always capitalized in writing, while that of the second part is not, even when derived from a proper noun such as the name of a person or place." - wikipedia


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## LAME (Feb 17, 2015)

Indeed, I've been aware of that lol just forgot about fixing it... Well good thing I've got a few new ones on the way. Definitely will fix it when they arrive =)

Also, I didn't think about microwaving. Could also set it outside to speed up the cooling process.(assuming you're in a colder zone...)


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