# Housefly culturing in 12" net cubes



## PhilinYuma (Mar 26, 2010)

At the beginning of this month I put a rectangular clearplastic container with three cups of housefly breeding medium in a 12"net cubewith 10G of housefly pupae in an inverted lid.. The medium consisted of onepart cat food steeped in two parts simmering water and rendered into mud with afood processor. I also added wood chips( ) in sufficient quantity that theycould be seen throughout the mixture but not enough to form clumps. I didn't add anything else except for a smallquantity of active baker's yeast on the top.

Winter is still with us in Yuma and the temp was about 75F at night and80ish during the day so this slowed down development time compared with summer.

There are several advantages to this method over using a 32oz cup as a breeding enclosure. The mostimportant is that the danger of an anaerobic (oxygen free) environment is muchless likely to occur than in a pot where oxygen intake can be blocked by afouled lid. . Another problem is that when the adults eclose (emerge), severalhundred flies greatly overcrowd a 32oz pot, and it is hard to feed them.

The procedure is easy. Remove the container when it is fullof maggots, transfer it to another cube and leave the pupae, which will formeventually, in the pot to eclose.

If you have set up the right amount of food – about 3 cupsfor 250 flies (5G pupae) you do not need to add water, which will force themaggots out or put wood chips on top for the pupae, which will block access tooxygen (I learned the hard way!).

After about three weeks, I now have 2,053 flies and they arestill eclosing. This is not too impressive when you remember that I used 500flies – approximately 250 females – and each female can lay up to 300 eggs.These things breed like, well, flies! I keep the flies in the cube and feedthem a sugar/powdered mil mix in an inverted lid. I also smear honey on the topof the netting and mist the cube two to three times daily. Fouled cubes can besoaked in 10% bleach solution (one part of commercial bleach in nine partswater)

I now consider this method a success. The flies wereproduced with little effort and, aside from one error, the medium is virtuallyodor free and never unpleasant.

After doing the post on fly larva nutrition and hearing ofHibiscusmile's success with adding brewers yeast and casein (milk protein), Iset up two pots in an enclosure with 500 flies. One contained three cups of theregular mix as used before, the second contained two cups of the mix and half acup each of the brewer's yeast and casein.

I started on 031610 and removed them both today. Alreadythere is a visible difference. The medium has been turned over by the maggotsin both pots and a lot of the wood shavings brought to the surface, though theyare not blocking out air. Immediately under this layer in the "regular" pot isa layer of large maggots with smaller ones lower down. In the second pot, thereis a layer of smaller larvae below, but on top, pupae waiting to eclose, somealready quite dark (nearly ready to emerge). This means that either the maggotsgrow faster in the protein enriched medium, or the flies laid in it first. Fromthe similar numbers, though, the former is more likely the case.

As soon as the two pots give up flies, I shall give you acount to see if the enriched medium gives a better enough yield to justify theextra cost. The micellar casein that I used (for body builders  ) costs about$6/pound, but you have to buy six pounds. The brewer's yeast, generously givento me by Rebecca, costs about $5/pound. I have used a variety of dog/cat foods.

Edit: I wrote this as a Word doc and pasted it here. Unaccountably, a lot of words ran together and I am afraid that I am too lazy to separate them all!


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## Colorcham427 (Mar 26, 2010)

Very nice man, thanks a lot for putting this up. One question, when you said "mud" did you mean "mud-like consistency" or "mud... mud" lol.. as in real mud?

I'm giving this a go starting this week, I'll post some news as soon as things start to appear.

Thanks again bro.


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## PhilinYuma (Mar 26, 2010)

Brian Aschenbach said:


> Very nice man, thanks a lot for putting this up. One question, when you said "mud" did you mean "mud-like consistency" or "mud... mud" lol.. as in real mud?
> 
> I'm giving this a go starting this week, I'll post some news as soon as things start to appear.
> 
> Thanks again bro.


Yes, Brian, it was the consistency and color of mud, but it was just the brown cat food and water. Since you have a coffee grinder, you might want to use that and avoid the food processor It worked for me, but I now use a food mill which grinds a little more coarsely but is much quicker.

Are you going to try it with just the dog/cat food and baker's yeast first? I shall be very interested to hear the result!


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## hibiscusmile (Mar 26, 2010)




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## sufistic (Mar 26, 2010)

This is great Phil. Perhaps you could show us some photos?


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## Mex_Ghost (Mar 26, 2010)

Phil you should told me that before..... :lol: I agree with the photos.....

saludos


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## cloud jaguar (Mar 26, 2010)

interesting Phil - please post some photos so i can grasp it better - and what is an inverted lid?


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## PhilinYuma (Mar 26, 2010)

Arkanis said:


> interesting Phil - please post some photos so i can grasp it better - and what is an inverted lid?


Good to hear from you! It's been a few weeks, hasn't it? O.K. I took some pix today and I'll post them tomorrow morning, An inverted lid is just a screw-cap lid tuned upside down to make a shallow dish.

Boy, those maggots are shy little guys!


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## PhilinYuma (Mar 28, 2010)

Well isn't this fun? I had to relearn how to do this downloading stuff again. Very confusing!

Top pic shows all the stuff that went into the mix: Paraben (2tsps-5cups mix) to prevent mold, some ground cat mix, Rebecca's brewer's yeast, casein in the big bag (5lbs) and a packet of baker's yeast. Also a bag of sugar/powdered milk mix for the adult flies and an "inverted lid" (it has a snazzy petri dish inside that fulfills the same purpose) for Roland  

Second pic (I got 'em back to front) is the plain cat food mix yesterday. The maggots are very shy. I had to clear the wood chips (damn! I should have included them in the top pic!) with my left hand and photograph with my right. You can see a few of the babies though.

Next the mixture with casein and brewer's yeast added (4:1:1) showing the pupae which started to eclose today,

Next the cube set up looking rather grungy after nearly two weeks in use. You can see the container.

Finally, the container (included by mistake!) to show how the wood chips get pushed to the surface to form a protective covering.

I hope this helps. Meanwhile I just heard from my lovely and favorite great niece who is wandering around Bangkok airport flat broke! She had no problem with the riots, which are a national pastime in the city, with potential rioters being bussed in by the rival factions (right Shaik?), but she is now headed for Seoul which I would most definitely avoid right now (everyone has heard the rumor that the warship that was sunk in the Yellow Sea was torpedoed by N. Korea, right?), so I shall PayPal her some Bhat (worth about 3c, I believe!) and say a prayer to the Great Mantis Goddess (BbHN) for her. Please pray to your gods as well, Her name is Laura. Thank you.


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## PhilinYuma (Mar 28, 2010)

My God! I guess that houseflies are as competitive was humans! I just went into the bug room, and instead of hearing a buzz as the house flies took off, I heard a roar! I had hoped that it was the new, protein enriched pot , but it was the old one from the beginning of the month that I had left in case a few more flies eclosed. There have to be 2,000 in there. I shall probably freeze them to death tomorrow and count the corpses. I just don't have enough mantids to eat that many! BTW, try chilling and counting a thousand imobilized flies. They remobilize before you've counted 200. What a mess!


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## hibiscusmile (Mar 29, 2010)

Just be careful Phil, they don't fly away with you


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## Mex_Ghost (Jun 7, 2010)

what if I don´t use wood chips?, and if my mix starts to get dry... do I add some water?? mist it? I did it this weekend (something like this but with dog food cause I don´t have cats), now I have to wait and see.

saludos


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm really glad that someone is trying this! Way to go! The wood chips serve three purpose. First they help oxygenate the substrate mechanically. Second, they are a source of cellulose. Not sure why they need that. Maybe it provides fiber and prevents diarrhea! Thirdly, as the maggots turn over the substrate, the wood chips float to the top and help prevent evaporation, as you can see in the pic above.

Despite all that, I have raised flies without wood chips. What you want is a dry surface and moisture (not too much or you'll cause the maggots to migrate) underneath.

And just for you, Espectro, here's another tip that I learned recently. Use two bowls of the same size, I use rectangular plastic ones by Rubber Maid, so that you can stack one inside the other with a small space between the bottom of the top one and the bottom of the lower one. Bore holes in the bottom of the top container, which will hold the medium, so that there is still enough plastic to prevent the bottom from falling out. Place a sheet of #7 plasticmesh over the bottom of the bowl, add the medium and stack it over the second bowl. You can leave a little dry sand in the bottom bowl if you wish. When the maggots are ready to pupate, they will migrate through the mesh and pupate in the sand. This makes harvesting the pupae much easier, since if placed in water, the sand will sink and the pupae float. Of course, some will pupate on the surface, and you will have to remove them manually or let them eclose in the cube. I buy #7 mesh at Michael's, a chain of craft stores in the U.S. , but you can also buy it at MantisPlace:

http://www.mantisplace.com/mantisgeneralsupplies.html#plasgrid

Good luck and let us know how it goes!


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## swords (Jun 8, 2010)

Awesome info Phil thanks a lot for posting this! I think I will try it too. You claim the maggots _don't_ stink? I've read that fly cultures/maggots have an ammonia smell, perhaps it's only due to what they're cultured on? I have lots of powdered cat food cos I feed it to the crickets and roaches. Is caesin the same as "Whey Protein" for weight lifters? I've been thinking of getting that to mix in for the roaches, some people say the roaches like it, the chocolate in particular for some reason.

How do you catch the flies /work in the enclosure? If you unzip the cube to feed or get at the the pupae/flies they take off right? I can put the bug cups in the freezer to knock 'em out but I can't fit a 12" cube in there.

Are you able to keep the fly cultures going enough to rely solely on your own production from 1 or 2 cubes as your only source of feeders?


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 8, 2010)

swords said:


> Awesome info Phil thanks a lot for posting this! I think I will try it too. You claim the maggots _don't_ stink? I've read that fly cultures/maggots have an ammonia smell, perhaps it's only due to what they're cultured on? I have lots of powdered cat food cos I feed it to the crickets and roaches. Is caesin the same as "Whey Protein" for weight lifters? I've been thinking of getting that to mix in for the roaches, some people say the roaches like it, the chocolate in particular for some reason.
> 
> How do you catch the flies /work in the enclosure? If you unzip the cube to feed or get at the the pupae/flies they take off right? I can put the bug cups in the freezer to knock 'em out but I can't fit a 12" cube in there.
> 
> Are you able to keep the fly cultures going enough to rely solely on your own production from 1 or 2 cubes as your only source of feeders?


The maggot medium only stinks and emits ammonia when anaerobic bacteria (that don't use oxygen for metabolism) are present. This can happen, I found, in a 32oz pot if the lid becomes fouled, but not in a shallow (longer/wider than deep), open container.

Casein and whey protein aren't identical, but the flies won't notice.

I once posted a thread on how to connect a contraption to a vacuum cleaner to suck the flies into a jar for stunning in the freezer: http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=14933&amp;st=0&amp;p=102540&amp;hl="vacuum%20cleaner"

I still use it on a daily basis and can snag a day's supply of flies in ten seconds, but I doubt if anyone will ever make another. The standard way to remove flies is to cover the flap end of the net cube with black cloth, like a sweater and shine a light on the far end to attract the flies. You then introduce a net or large jar to snag as many as you want. That's the theory, anyway. I remember Katnapper saying that it worked for her.

Yes, in theory at least the culture is self sustaining. You would need to expose one container with at least four cups of mix in a cage with 250+ flies for a week and make sure that you always have one container for laying, a second with growing maggots for another week, and a third with eclosing flies. For reasons that I don't understand, although the egg laying is continuous, apparently, most of the flies eclose in two days.

Again, let us know how it works out!


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## cloud jaguar (Jun 8, 2010)

Thanks Phil - i should try that - especially now that i have a bunch of baby toads.


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## swords (Jun 8, 2010)

Thanks Phil, I love these DIY sort of projects so if you don't mind me asking you a bit more about this:

What kind of wood/mulch do you use in your culture mud? It looks finer than the shredded cypress much I use for drainage/aeration in terrarium soil mixes instead of perlite. How long do you leave the mud pots in the enclosure before they're "used up" - how many crops of pupae can you get out of them? Are shallow and wider (more surface area exposed to air) better than deep maggot containers?

I bought dry milk today and it's shaped more like Splenda granules (fake sugar), is this normal? I thought it would be actual "powder" like the powdered sugar I bought. I've ordered a pound of bee pollen and honey powder supposedly this is a good thing to add to the fly diet and/or dust the flies with before feeding. Will dusting the flies keep them from being able to fly or can they shake it off their wings?


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## hibiscusmile (Jun 10, 2010)

Do u have a post for the fruit fly medium Phil? I am afraid t o try the house fly one!

Only beccause I know it will work and then I will have to take care of it too.


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 10, 2010)

hibiscusmile said:


> Do u have a post for the fruit fly medium Phil? I am afraid t o try the house fly one!
> 
> Only beccause I know it will work and then I will have to take care of it too.


For the fruit fly mix:

4 cups potato flakes

1 cup active granular yeast (if you like the mix, buy at least 2lbs Red Star brand -- cheaper).

1/2 cup casein or milk whey (Buy 5lbs from a body builder place. To get their discount, you have to send a pic of your quads or lats. I sent them a pic and they charged me an extra $15).

1/2 cup sugar (any kind)

1 tbs Paraben (Joe's Frog has a good deal).

NO vinegar!

I mix the ingredients using a stand mixer. If you don't have one use whatever you (or yr SO) use for cooking. You need to distribute that Paraben through 6 cups of mix.

Put a cupful of dry mix in a 32oz cup and add a cup of water. Let the flakes absorb the water and then add enough more to give it an oatmeal consistency. It will give off carbon dioxide, so wait an hour or so before adding flies.

OMG! Now I've given away the secret recipe and I won't be able to make my fortune!





P.S. If anyone uses this mix (exactly as described here!) would you please report on the result on this thread?


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## hibiscusmile (Jun 11, 2010)

Phil, haha, they charged u cause they wanted to make sure u didn't advertise the product for them....







too funny!

I did use the mix u sent me, I ment was there a post started.... but anyways, here are my results.

The mix was all u said it would be, there were maggots everywhere, they really liked it and I have a new favorite!


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## Mex_Ghost (Jun 11, 2010)

I have House Flies maggots now with only the dog food, the smell is better than meat as a medium :lol: . Now I´m not sure if I should add some Flies again, or just wait with those maggots.

saludos


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 11, 2010)

¡Salud!

The flies don't care. They just want to produce the next generation of flies and will lay on anything whose smell tells them that it will nourish the maggots. Also, according to experiments that I have read about, if you continue to feed the flies on dog food alone, you will get an improved yield in later generations. The idea of adding all the things that i have mentioned, like brewer's yeast and casein is to maximize the size and yield of the flies.

I would suggest that you put in a new pot of food if your flies are still active. That way, the pupae in the first pot will all eclose within one-two days and you can clean it out and start again.

¡Buena suerta!

P.S. Can you explain your avatar? It reminds me of an old episode of Dr Who, but I doubt that it is that!


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## Mex_Ghost (Jun 12, 2010)

My avatar says in the bottom "I love DF" (Mexico City), and it´s like a duality, like the ying and yang :lol: .

It has some buildings from Mexico City, the "I love DF" and the girl with the gas mask cause of the pollution. So it´s like... yeah DF Rocks but We have pollution.

I made some other with the same topic "I love DF", but with Drugs, prostitution, insecurity.

But the one I like the most is the one showed on my Avatar  






saludos


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## swords (Jun 13, 2010)

What is paraben?


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 13, 2010)

swords said:


> What is paraben?


Parabens are esters of para-hydroxybenzoic acid. It's a bit late for me (how's that for a cop out?  ) but that should mean an aromatic ring with a hydroxy group at one end and the ester group , with an oxo component and usually some kind of alcohol as the radical, at the other. The variety that you get from Joe's frogs is of that kind, I believe, probably methyl paraben.

In small amounts, 1 tsp to 5 cups of mix, it will kill mold but not yeast. Pretty cool, huh? I've tested it against vinegar and found that though both will kill active yeast in large enough doses, the paraben is much safer than vinegar. The worst strategy when using vinegar and yeast is to to pour the vinegar on top of the substrate and then sprinkle the yeast directly on top of that.

See, I said it was late. You won't have to worry about killing the brewer's yeast that I recommend for the house fly mix, because it is already dead.





@Ghost. Thanks for the explanation of your avatar. Very cool!


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