# any forseeable problems with this housing arrangement?



## nasty bugger (Dec 29, 2008)

Stayed up and fixed 6 new jars for housing last night, along with some ff cultures, and am wondering if you forsee any negative affects with my set up-

I'm currently using a commercial garden mix for a substrate, that I thought was peat but isn't, that has coir fiber, perlite, earthworm castings, compost, seaweed extract and meal, and leonardite ore, that is designed for outdoor gardening and to retain moisture evenly.

I put about a half inch of this in the bottom of a mason jar, with some twigs with leaves off the tree outside, not sure what kind of tree, and sometimes some calcified sand for reptiles.

I cover the jar with a square of washed t shirt and rubber bands.

I mist at least once a day, and spray the t shirt top several times a day to maintain moisture.

I live in Phoenix, where it's not very humid, so I try to maintain a good moisture level in the jars.

I just started this hobby earlier this month so I am curious about the wholesomeness of this situation, but I figure if they live in the wild they should do fine with this, since it's all organic.

My dudes seem to be doing fine with this in my other jars, when they were housed alot more to a jar. I am singling them out to live alone right now, though I'd rather house them together I am concerned about canabalism. I thought I heard an ooga booga the other day...  

Can anyone think of any potential, or future problems with using this substrate or total housing situation.


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## Rick (Dec 29, 2008)

It will work but it is overkill and there are simpler ways of doing this. I prefer 32 oz plastic deli cups with a hole cut in the side. Through the hole I can feed and water without having to remove the lid which is what you will have to do. Mantids spend most of their time on the lid so this is going to make things harder when you have to remove the lid. Also I use just a bit of moist moss in the bottom. I would advise against any sticks as they can interfere with molting.

Here is a pic of what I use for small mantid species and for nymphs until they outgrow them.


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## nasty bugger (Dec 29, 2008)

I have noted alot of hanging out on the lid. I delayed misting and feeding after I came back from holiday visits cause my largest mantis was hanging from the lid molting. I did mist the t shirt top to help moisten the skeleton for easier molt release.

What are you making the hole in the side of the container with, scissors or how do you keep it more symetrical?

Thanks for the advise


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## Katnapper (Dec 29, 2008)

nasty bugger said:


> What are you making the hole in the side of the container with, scissors or how do you keep it more symetrical?


I'm not sure how Rick does it, but I've heard several people say they use an old soldering iron to burn holes in them. I don't have a soldering iron, and the hole saw just ripped and cracked the plastic into a jagged mess... so I went with the heat idea and used the only thing I could think of that I had... one of those long plastic grill or fireplace lighters that look kind of like a gun. You squeeze the trigger and it provides a nice little flame at the end. I just held that under the plastic on the side and it worked great! I did learn that holding it closer and burning it hotter and faster worked better than holding the flame farther away and burning the hole more slowly. When you do it farther away, it makes a smoke film mess around the hole (doesn't happen with holding it close).


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## nasty bugger (Dec 29, 2008)

I suppose for plastic enclosures I could use a pipe heated and pressed to the plastic to form the hole, but I have glass jars, and like them, well some of them. I am concerned with the plastic collapsing, and I like the feel of glass. It cleans easy enough also.

I suppose I could turn the jar sideways and put something to hang from at the new top of the jar, and a large sponge on the hole on the side, that was the top opening. I could also buy a glass cutting rotary bit from harbor freight, but have broken glass with those before.

Maybe have a glass blower adapt the current jars, or make new one's and market them...

Any other idea's are welcome


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## Rick (Dec 30, 2008)

The holes are actually square and are made with a razor blade. The foam plugs expand and fill the hole. Nothing fancy. You could just ditch the jars and get some of these or some other plastic containers.


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## nasty bugger (Dec 30, 2008)

I just like the ease of cleaning with glass. I've always liked glass.

I think it also has something to do with my rebellious attitude against a throw away society. Rant: even relationships are throw away nowadays, and I don't care for the throwaway way  

I will say that some of my jars are a bit difficult to see through at the threads and the images can skew and deform a bends in the glass, but I like glass. A little bit of lye, *or* orange oil and they clean up pretty good, pretty fast.

I will look into some other arrangement. One of the reasons I don't use the deli containers for mantis' is the one's I have are the thinner 'throw away' &lt;_&lt; one's, for ff's.

Funny, but I just turned on a glass show on pbs Create channel  Working glass with a torch and such.


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## Peter Clausen (Dec 31, 2008)

Not sure if this might be a problem with that substrate or not, but largely organic substrates often have more mold issues with the frass that drops into the moistened substrate. Just something to be aware of as you hone your substrate-selection skills. Adult mantises don't need as much humidity and so I rarely spray them (and rarely have any substrate/frass-mold issues.

I appreciate your orientation toward natural/sustainable ways.


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## Rick (Dec 31, 2008)

nasty bugger said:


> I just like the ease of cleaning with glass. I've always liked glass. I think it also has something to do with my rebellious attitude against a throw away society. Rant: even relationships are throw away nowadays, and I don't care for the throwaway way
> 
> I will say that some of my jars are a bit difficult to see through at the threads and the images can skew and deform a bends in the glass, but I like glass. A little bit of lye, *or* orange oil and they clean up pretty good, pretty fast.
> 
> ...


That's what recycling is for and I have never thrown one of these containers away. They are pretty heavy duty and not throw away at all. They also clean up in seconds. Like Peter said you have to find the balance of humidity with the moss to ensure you don't get mold. I used to but not anymore.


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## Orin (Jan 2, 2009)

It's not really that important but why are the feeding holes so high up on the container? Nymphs like to sit on the foam if it's high up and sometimes nymphs can be damaged or lost during feeding.


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## Dinora (Jan 2, 2009)

nasty bugger said:


> I suppose for plastic enclosures I could use a pipe heated and pressed to the plastic to form the hole, but I have glass jars, and like them, well some of them. I am concerned with the plastic collapsing, and I like the feel of glass. It cleans easy enough also.I suppose I could turn the jar sideways and put something to hang from at the new top of the jar, and a large sponge on the hole on the side, that was the top opening. I could also buy a glass cutting rotary bit from harbor freight, but have broken glass with those before.
> 
> Maybe have a glass blower adapt the current jars, or make new one's and market them...
> 
> Any other idea's are welcome


I'm using plastic, too, but since you seem very happy with your glass containers, you can do either of the following:

1. Contact your local Stained Glass shop asking them for a quote to drill a hole in your jars. They have glass grinders with diamond bits embedded in them so while it's a messy, tedious job, it can be done. Depending on the shop they will charge about $2 to $10 a hole, so I'd shop around. (I used to make and repair stained glass windows as well as teach classes professionally. We've had lots of people ask the same thing, my favorite was a guy who had 12 SKYY Vodka bottles and wanted holes drilled in the bottom so he could wire them to make lamps.)

2. Contact hardware stores looking for a drill bit that has diamond bits in it for either a Dremel or traditional electric drill. If you don't already have the tool this will be the more expensive way to go.

While I'm still very much a newbie, my concern is blocking good airflow if the t-shirt squares are completely wet on top. Just a thought.


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## Rick (Jan 3, 2009)

Orin said:


> It's not really that important but why are the feeding holes so high up on the container? Nymphs like to sit on the foam if it's high up and sometimes nymphs can be damaged or lost during feeding.


Not too often do they sit on the foam but usually on the lid. The holes are about halfway up. Never been an issue of them getting damaged or lost. If on the foam I just make them move before pulling it out. It works and works well.


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## robelgado (Feb 3, 2009)

I also use glass jars.

you can buy them at your local walmart.

three different sizes!

I usually buy the small jars for my 1st-4th instar

Then I move them into the larger jars according to their size.

The jars are fairly inexpensive, easy to clean, and reusable!


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## nasty bugger (Feb 4, 2009)

I like glass cause it's easy to clean, but more than that, the reason I use them is cause I had them when I needed the enclosures.

I used them for germinating garden seed, and when that was done the got used for the manitis houses  

I don't like the distortion of the curves in the jars, but hey, they were practically free...

Thanks all for the input. wouldn't be much of a forum for me if nobody shared info.


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