# Molting in a very "dangerous" position



## PlayingMantis (Feb 27, 2014)

I decided to check on my mantids, and I saw one of my shields halfway up the wall of his cup. I was about to look away when I noticed he was squirming slowly, and upon closer inspection, he was actually molting - his head was barely out of his old skin! Molting on a vertical surface! I was so puzzled that he didn't climb to the top of his enclosure like all the other mantids. I always make sure I add mesh just for that purpose.

In that split second, I was deciding whether to take him out and to risk him falling, or to see how he would do. I had a bad feeling he would fall, because the wall of his cup is smooth plastic. Too bad, I didn't have much time to think - in a few seconds, he fell and he lay at the bottom, curled in that famous S-shape. I quickly took him out and taped him, and I held the tape so he could molt upside down. At first he didn't move, and I was so scared he would be frozen in his old exuviae. But the little guy had strength and determination - he squirmed his way out and he molted perfectly.

I was so stressed out...if I had checked just a few minutes too late, I probably would've lost the poor guy.

Have any of your mantids molted in such bizarre positions? Also, I really hope all this extra stress from falling and getting taped up wouldn't have any lasting health complications.


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## Extrememantid (Feb 28, 2014)

Haven't experienced it with my shields yet, I always watch carefully when they are gonna, then 5-15 mins before I move them to a good position


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## HungryGhost (Feb 28, 2014)

Nice save!


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## sally (Feb 28, 2014)

Glad you checked him


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## PlayingMantis (Mar 6, 2014)

And the same thing happened again, except this time it was a male creo. I noticed him molting halfway up the vertical surface of his cup, and within a minute, he fell, with his head barely out of his old skin. I ended up taping him:





I had to be really careful though...when he started wiggling his legs in order to free himself, I had to make sure his legs wouldn't come in contact with the tape. He is now happily chilling on a piece of mesh.

I don't know why this keeps happening! I am afraid the next time I won't be there to save the mantis in time.


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## sally (Mar 7, 2014)

I am glad you were able to save him.


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## [email protected] (May 6, 2014)

Awesome save!

I saved two by having them molt on my fingers. There was no time to think so I just held them for about half hour each time. One molted to L3 to and the other to L7! They are perfect! But last night I decided to let one molt hanging just from her back legs to L7 and the weight of her body made her legs straight and useless! I was just scared that I might have scared her and if she fell. . . she wouldn't make it. Now she is crippled. I am sooo sad!

I actually did have one fall about an inch and she got up and finished drying on a different branch. She is actually fine, (just a little slow).


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## furrymanmarbles (Jun 28, 2014)

One of my shields molted on the ground the other day and I thought it was a freak ocurance. Maybe its something with the breed.I have plenty of sticks and fake foliage too before someone asks and I double sided taped window screen up the side for climbing.


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## PlayingMantis (Jun 29, 2014)

Yeah, I wonder what could've caused this. Since my last post in this thread, it happened a 2-3 more times, and I was unable to save them.

Even if a mantis molts on a vertical surface, and do not fall (i.e., if the said surface is covered in mesh), there's still a high chance of mismolt. My guess is that when a mantis molts normally - upside down - the mantis hangs at a slight angle at the beginning of the molt, with the head/raptorials positioned a little more "forward" than the body. Plus, there is plenty of space for the mantis to stretch out afterwards. Too bad even though a mantis still does this from time to time, even though it is pretty much a death sentence.


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## Krissim Klaw (Jun 30, 2014)

PlayingMantis said:


> Yeah, I wonder what could've caused this. Since my last post in this thread, it happened a 2-3 more times, and I was unable to save them.
> 
> *Even if a mantis molts on a vertical surface, and do not fall (i.e., if the said surface is covered in mesh), there's still a high chance of mismolt*. My guess is that when a mantis molts normally - upside down - the mantis hangs at a slight angle at the beginning of the molt, with the head/raptorials positioned a little more "forward" than the body. Plus, there is plenty of space for the mantis to stretch out afterwards. Too bad even though a mantis still does this from time to time, even though it is pretty much a death sentence.


I'm not sure where you are getting your data. I use net cages for my mantises so the walls and ceilings of the cages are as easy to cling to as the ceiling. My mantises almost exclusively use the sides. I do think a slight inward angle of 75-95 degrees is probably optimal when they are shedding from netting since I catch so many enjoying the slight angle of the corners, but I've only had one or two mantises that chose the horizontal plain of the ceiling when offered easy to grip to sides. In this same line, I've noticed when offered easy to cling to sides many of my mantises prefer hanging out on the sides versus the ceiling. At leas when they aren't otherwise entertained with twigs/other cage decor.


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## PlayingMantis (Jul 1, 2014)

Interesting...anyways, I should've added that I wasn't stating a fact, just throwing ideas out there based on what I've observed. Subsequently I had a shield, ghost, and creo that tried to molt on a vertical surface. I was not there to "interfere," and when I got back, they were still hanging there, but had fatally mismolted (raptorials stuck, thorax extremely bent, or something like that). Anyways, as you pointed out, we can't really say vertical surfaces definitely caused the mismolt. It is interesting to hear about everyone's experiences.


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## ct.pro (Jul 1, 2014)

Krissim Klaw said:


> I'm not sure where you are getting your data. I use net cages for my mantises so the walls and ceilings of the cages are as easy to cling to as the ceiling. My mantises almost exclusively use the sides. I do think a slight inward angle of 75-95 degrees is probably optimal when they are shedding from netting since I catch so many enjoying the slight angle of the corners, but I've only had one or two mantises that chose the horizontal plain of the ceiling when offered easy to grip to sides. In this same line, I've noticed when offered easy to cling to sides many of my mantises prefer hanging out on the sides versus the ceiling. At leas when they aren't otherwise entertained with twigs/other cage decor.


Every single mantis I've raised so far has wanted to use the sides as well. No idea why.


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## Digger (Jul 2, 2014)

Is it possible that the mesh on the top surface, irritates them or otherwise makes it uncomfortable for them to use? I've never had a "side wall" molt (thankfully). The material I use for smaller nymph cages is women's hose. The mesh is ultra fine and mantid tarsi attach to it with incredible ease.


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## Aryia (Jul 8, 2014)

They can successfully molt off the sides if the surface is a more natural one. I've actually had a chinese nymph molt off the side of a plastic cup wall (I watched the entire process and he managed without any help and flawless) and I also noticed a couple molts left back on my wall from my free-roamers. I imagine that mantises can and will molt off vertical surfaces like a tree trunk in the wild, and aren't familiar with materials that don't occur in their natural habitat such as plastic and therefore don't know that they can't molt off it.

I can actually see an advantage to molting off the side walls. Instead of hanging free and risking falling with the molt when they finish molting, they can grab on to the vertical surface instead. (This being if the vertical surface isn't slippery)


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