# floppy abdomen?



## Norlin (Jul 25, 2012)

Two of my L5 Chinese mantis have a floppy abdomen. Basically, when they hang upside down, there is a crease right behind where their back legs meet their bodies. The abdomen hang straight down, and if they're facing face down towards the ground, the abdomen flops towards their head. Anyone see this before? I figured they wouldn't make it long, but they're eating fine and seem to be getting by.


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## agent A (Jul 25, 2012)

seen it and the area behind the fold fattened but not in front and the thing died


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## womantis (Jul 29, 2012)

had this happen to one of my mantids who died a few weeks later...(it was a chinese subadult)


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## angelofdeathzz (Jul 29, 2012)

Back when I was breeding Chinese I kept 15 in their own deli's and about half of them did the same thing once they reached L3-4 or so, one or two corrected it on their own, not all of them that had it died but a few did, and when it was discussed we found it was happening to a few people not just me? Never put a finger on what it was though, but it seems to be common in captive bred/raised Chinese.


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## Rick (Jul 30, 2012)

I've seen this but only with that species. Not sure what causes it.


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## Norlin (Jul 30, 2012)

I've seen it in about 5 of them now, none of them have died yet, though none have molted yet either. With about half of them, when I really plump them up with food, it seems to not flop any more, but the rest are still all floppy. I'll see if it goes away with the molt, assuming they make it past that.


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## sueb4653 (Jul 30, 2012)

one of my chinese was doing this this morning but seems healthy enough and is eating


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## massaman (Jul 30, 2012)

I think this could be a problem when they are adults if it becomes a female but not sure on how it would effect a male being when the female gets heavy with eggs this could cause the female to eggbound I think!


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## eyes (Jul 30, 2012)

I had one that did this for a few days but then stopped doing it. I think it is a camouflage technique they can use (ie. I think they do it on purpose; like playing dead).

However, I had another one that did it and kept doing it all the time. She was eating and fine but eventually her exoskeleton cracked at the crease. I believe she started doing it because her enclosure was too small when she was younger. Later, in a larger enclosure she didn't stop doing it but maybe the enclosure was still too small. The crack wasn't bad enough to kill her and I let her go hoping she would do better outside.

So my theory is if they do it once in a while it's fine because they're just acting normal but if they do it _all_ the time then it's because their cage is or was too small.


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## gripen (Jul 30, 2012)

I have seen this in wild mantids to. It has nothing to do with captivity.


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## Norlin (Jul 31, 2012)

I have seen them curl their abdomen intentionally, such as when doing a threat pose as a nymph, however this is a definite crease and is there all the time when they're hanging upside down or facing the ground. It flops down like on a hinge. They're still eating fine but I want to see if it goes away with a molt. I think there may be something to be said about small enclosure as the ones that are in smaller containers seem to have it more frequently than those in larger containers.


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## sueb4653 (Jul 31, 2012)

Is this what you talking about with the chinese floppy abd. mine has been doing this for a few days


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## massaman (Jul 31, 2012)

I had one do that the other day and it molted fine and few days later it develloped this condition and was kept in a 24x24 net cube cage!


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## Norlin (Jul 31, 2012)

sue, that picture is exactly what they look like, I have several like that, none have molted yet since becoming like that, but none of them seem to be behaving differently (eating etc.)


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## sueb4653 (Jul 31, 2012)

yea mine is eating also -strange


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## Krissim Klaw (Jul 31, 2012)

I have had this happen only once with one of mine and it was a nymph that moved too soon to the ceiling after shedding. I feel it could be a shedding problem that can occur where the mantis moves too quickly to the ceiling of the enclosure and gravity takes effect. This is one of the reasons I think it is super important to let a mantis shed and rest undisturbed till it is properly hardened. With my boy the problem was fixed in future sheddings where he properly rested instead of running around like a twit. I like using triangle net cages for my Chinese mantises since they seem to create such an ideal shedding position.


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## JackTopus (Aug 9, 2012)

hi, sorry to bring an old thread back, but this currently just happened to my mantis. it molted 2 days ago, leaving a bad leg however. i fed him today and now has this floppy abdomen too.

if i keep feeding it till completly stuff, would that fix the floppiness since it may make it completly swollen? or is that just a bad idea and just adding more weight.


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## Rick (Aug 10, 2012)

I read an interesting bit on this condition on another site. What was suggested was to remove the option of hanging. Change up the enclosure so the mantis can only sit on top of a surface or at a slight angle so the abdomen cannot bend down. Feed well to help stiffen the abdomen. The author stated that occasionally this will fix the issue.


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## Norlin (Aug 10, 2012)

I stuff mine fully and with about half of the ones with the issue (6 have it currently) the abdomen puffed out straight. None of them have molted yet, so I'm still not sure if it'll fix, but I'll update as soon as one molts or dies.


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## sueb4653 (Aug 11, 2012)

Well another of my chinese has a floppy abd. found it today in its enclosure

The first one is refusing to eat so I think its doomed very skinny already even tried honey yesterday to no avail

sucks cause both are at sub adult


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## mutrok4040 (Aug 11, 2012)

I saw this with my Texicorn a couple days ago, however he was thin instead of fat like the pic. He is subadult too, he's about to molt, huge swollen wings. I will post if he sucessfully molts.


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## JackTopus (Aug 12, 2012)

Rick said:


> I read an interesting bit on this condition on another site. What was suggested was to remove the option of hanging. Change up the enclosure so the mantis can only sit on top of a surface or at a slight angle so the abdomen cannot bend down. Feed well to help stiffen the abdomen. The author stated that occasionally this will fix the issue.


that totally makes sense to keep it stiff. when i took my photo i already fed em like 4 or 5 green flies. geeze i wonder how much it would take to get truely plump to not be floppy lol


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## Saebjorn9 (Aug 15, 2012)

just went to go check on my mantis and he has floppy abdomen disease. hanging at a 90 degree angle. I think I may just keep him over night and if it corrects itself great. I was expecting him to molt today but he didn't. If he survives the night though yet it doesn't correct itself, I'll just let him go.  

EDIT: Just molted, abdomen seems to have corrected itself. To anyone who has this issue, have no fear. There is hope!


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## Norlin (Aug 24, 2012)

Well two days ago the first of my floppy abdomen Chinese molted into an adult and turned out beautiful. However last night another floppy abdomen one tried to molt to adult and failed to pull out any of his abdomen. I found him this morning on the ground so don't know if he failed to pull out his abdomen and ran out of strength, or fell during the molt before he got his abdomen out.


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## TySAAAN (Aug 24, 2012)

My Ghost is doing the same thing  I'm a little bit worried, as her favorite thing to do is hanging upside down all day.


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## Krissim Klaw (Aug 25, 2012)

TySAAAN said:


> My Ghost is doing the same thing  I'm a little bit worried, as her favorite thing to do is hanging upside down all day.


Are you sure it is floppy and not just positioning its abdomen where it feels comfortable? Ghost mantids prior to adulthood often hold their rumps perked up. They will even do so sometimes when they are sitting on the ground. The difference is unlike say the Chinese species that gets a crease in that area, the ghosts are able to move it and the position is perfectly natural.


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## Norlin (Aug 27, 2012)

My ghosts all sit upside-down with their abdomen next to their head. Like Krissim said, while the Chinese can curl their abdomen, this is more of an unnatural crease.


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## JackTopus (Aug 28, 2012)

when my floppy mantis finally reach adult hood she straighten out. as long as they they eat like they normally did, they'll be fine. i was so nervous and scared when it happened too.


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