# Idolo Ooth from Villosa



## [email protected] (Sep 6, 2009)

[SIZE=18pt]I got a Ooth from him he pmed me well and the Ooth came it looks good every thing went well so far now let see if thay hatch  .[/SIZE]

So I was looking @ this Ooth in the light and it looks like it was cut opened or dose Idolos lay down the foam 1st then center ooth ( the part with the eggs inside) then the outer foam?, also it looks like there isn't anything inside IDK about this. And all the pic are to big to post trying to get them to size down.


----------



## hibiscusmile (Sep 6, 2009)

The ooth pics look fine to me, the mantis make the ooth and lay the eggs inside an u cannot see them just by looking thru the ooth.


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 8, 2009)

ArkBlue said:


> [SIZE=18pt]I got a Ooth from him he pmed me well and the Ooth came it looks good every thing went well so far now let see if thay hatch  .[/SIZE] So I was looking @ this Ooth in the light and it looks like it was cut opened or dose Idolos lay down the foam 1st then center ooth ( the part with the eggs inside) then the outer foam?, also it looks like there isn't anything inside IDK about this. And all the pic are to big to post trying to get them to size down.














[SIZE=14pt]Now I was looking @ this Ooth "ha I say ha 2 it being a Ooth" ya I was looking @ it this morning and, you know the egg test shining light through it just looking then it was clear there isnt anything in side "yes there isnt anything inside I say" so I cut a little bit off nothing there just a line, then I cut a bit more then, a little more then, A little bit more till there are 6 pices of foam yes just foam wow I fill odd.[/SIZE]


----------



## Rick (Sep 8, 2009)

You can't candle a mantis ooth like you can some bird and reptile eggs.


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 8, 2009)

Rick said:


> You can't candle a mantis ooth like you can some bird and reptile eggs.


[SIZE=14pt]Well if there is a large mass of foam for the outer Ooth you do see the differnt, there is a darker mass in there the iner Ooth, mind you you cant see any eggs or ever know if its going to hatch but if the light shins clear through the Ooth there is somthing worng "it was just like looking through some paper held up to a light, A real Ooth I'v seen light through parts of the outer Ooth and it wasnt @ all as clear as this fake ok.[/SIZE]


----------



## massaman (Sep 8, 2009)

Well your the one who bought it so just deal with it and be done with it and maybe you wont make that same mistake twice by ordering that species ever again!


----------



## Emile.Wilson (Sep 8, 2009)

massaman said:


> Well your the one who bought it so just deal with it and be done with it and maybe you wont make that same mistake twice by ordering that species ever again!


Just because someone has a bad experience with a species of mantis doesn't mean all should be given up!


----------



## ismart (Sep 8, 2009)

Just leave the ooths be. They do not look fake to me. Just continue to incubate them and see what happens before you start accusing him of scamming you. How long have they been in incubation?


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 8, 2009)

Rick said:


> There will be eggs inside no matter what so I don't see the point.


[SIZE=14pt]Dosent any one read I cut it open there isnt anything inside there its all foam I think "Insulation foam" that is what it looks like I am going to take pics I need to find my cable to hook up my cam so I can post them. There is a line all the way through each of the 6 slices, no eggs no iner Ooth at all that is my point.[/SIZE]

By the way I also posted this in Villosa breeders feed back so I thought I had put in this post that I think it is "Insulation foam" by the way I dont know who had made this fake Ooth.



[SIZE=14pt]Maybe this will help[/SIZE] [SIZE=14pt]now look for the line its lighter then the rest of the ooth its almost white it starts in the mid left of the pic to below the mid right. If our photo shop was on this computter I would point it out better but its not sorry.[/SIZE]



Ok now on this pic look @ the left 1/4 of the way up from the bottom to the right mid theres is the line, anyone see it?


----------



## hibiscusmile (Sep 8, 2009)

Ark Blue, u sent me the pictures and I told you the ooth is fine, there is no one that can make a fake ooth, if you really doubt it, send it to me and I will tell u for sure, but really it is fine, and a mantis will not be able to lay an ooth without eggs. The ooth may of hatched or may not be fertile, but it will have eggs and as Rick said and I have said before, candleing an ooth is not like candleing an egg, an egg that is fertile will have a spider looking lines running around it, an ooth will not. Plus you have not had it long enough for it to hatch.


----------



## kamakiri (Sep 8, 2009)

ArkBlue said:


> Dosent any one read I cut it open there isnt anything inside there its all foam I think "Insulation foam" that is what it looks like I am going to take pics I need to find my cable to hook up my cam so I can post them. There is a line all the way through each of the 6 slices, no eggs no iner Ooth at all that is my point.By the way I also posted this in Villosa breeders feed back so I thought I had put in this post that I think it is "Insulation foam" by the way I dont know who had made this fake Ooth.


I've read what you're typing from the feedback thread, but I think we'd all understand better if you put up the pictures of the cut-up ooth.


----------



## Rick (Sep 8, 2009)

ArkBlue said:


> [SIZE=14pt]Dosent any one read I cut it open there isnt anything inside there its all foam I think "Insulation foam" that is what it looks like I am going to take pics I need to find my cable to hook up my cam so I can post them. There is a line all the way through each of the 6 slices, no eggs no iner Ooth at all that is my point.[/SIZE]By the way I also posted this in Villosa breeders feed back so I thought I had put in this post that I think it is "Insulation foam" by the way I dont know who had made this fake Ooth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I do read. I read it more than once. It isn't easy to read. So you think someone made a fake ooth? That would be a new one. . Some species make ooths that have a lot of foam. I have seen some that are almost all foam.


----------



## kamakiri (Sep 8, 2009)

Rick said:


> Yes I do read. I read it more than once. It isn't easy to read. So you think someone made a fake ooth? That would be a new one. . Some species make ooths that have a lot of foam. I have seen some that are almost all foam.


What he's saying is that it's a real ooth, surgically cut in half with the 'core' of eggs removed. Right?


----------



## Rick (Sep 8, 2009)

kamakiri said:


> What he's saying is that it's a real ooth, surgically cut in half with the 'core' of eggs removed. Right?


I really don't know. I was thinking he thought it was just insulation foam made to look like an ooth.


----------



## hibiscusmile (Sep 8, 2009)

That's what I thought Rick.


----------



## Christian (Sep 8, 2009)

Ah, good that you explained. I ceased to read his stuff, as it was either blue, or without any grammar rules, or both.


----------



## superfreak (Sep 8, 2009)

so can anyone confirm that its an idolo ooth or not? does it look like an idolo ooth? honestly it looks like it could be a piece of insulation foam squirted onto a twig. i dont know why you think that would be impossible to do, bec. he prob got scammed. just gotta learn from it.


----------



## massaman (Sep 8, 2009)

well if its fake then he will prob have to try not to deal with that dealer any more and just dont worry bout obtaining that species unless he knows the person or persons who raise them and know exactly what their doing and how to do it!


----------



## Christian (Sep 8, 2009)

After having seen over hundredandfifty or so _Idolomantis_ ooths (I started collecting them a while ago, one day I can use them as isolation in a parcel instead of corn chips.... :lol: ) I have to admit that that one looks strange. However, that doesn't have to mean nothing, as some females tend to produce bizarre ooths. What makes me scratching my head is the lack of a hatching zone, at least it isn't obvious from the pics.

It would be a whole new quality of fraud if fake ooths are produced; on the other hand maybe it will diminish the collecting of WC ones, so it's ok for me. I don't think, though, that the ooth was cut in half to remove the eggs; this would be rather obvious, particularly since you can kill the eggs with other methods which don't show up immediately.

By the way, _Idolomantis_ ooths are rather foamy, with a thick outer layer.


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 9, 2009)

kamakiri said:


> What he's saying is that it's a real ooth, surgically cut in half with the 'core' of eggs removed. Right?


The ooth may of hatched or may not be fertile, but it will have eggs and as Rick said and I have said before, candleing an ooth is not like candleing an egg, an egg that is fertile will have a spider looking lines running around it, an ooth will not. Plus you have not had it long enough for it to hatch.

[SIZE=14pt]Yes @ 1st I was thinking that kamakiri, but after I cut it 6 times 6 slices all without any eggs in the core, but with the same line runing through each and every slice. Also I know if you a rep or brid eggs up you will see the veins and later you can see a babys shape takeing place, but like I keep saying is holding this Ooth up to a desk light not our light for candleing our rep eggs I could see right throught it there wasn't anything in there all there was was foam through and through foam. [/SIZE]

Now why cant you all belive this that its all just foam &lt;_&lt; .

[SIZE=10pt][/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt][/SIZE]I really don't know. I was thinking he thought it was just insulation foam made to look like an ooth.

[SIZE=14pt]Now I am thinking it is "Insulation foam" only after I cut it open, and as I have worked with insulation foam befor and if any of you have you can use a paint or rust stripper to shape it into things we did head stones once, you can also shape it to be flat like your walls, so think if you have done anything with if you haven't worked with it then I cant help you there.[/SIZE]


----------



## cloud jaguar (Sep 9, 2009)

Perhaps someone on this forum has access to a gas chromatograph mass spectrometer and can determine once and for all what the heck that ooth-looking thing is made of. The way i see it here are the obvious choices:

1. insulation foam

2. meringue

3. a scalded packing peanut

4. a turd

5. burnt and sanded craft styrofoam.

6. real ooth now destroyed due to being cut into 6 pieces

7. real eggless ooth

8. freeze dried marshmallow

My vote goes to 3. Anyways, it would be nice to know if it were actually an elaborate hoax complete with fake oothecae or just a weird, eggless ooth.


----------



## mythal (Sep 9, 2009)

Aye, if there is doubt about the ootheca, it might be best to come to some sort of conclusion. If someone proficient could take a look at it, or maybe do some testing, the results should be well worth the trouble.


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 9, 2009)

[SIZE=14pt]Ok I got the pics, also I did a small test to see what it is made of now Phil may like this. I got out a lighter and very small peace of a peace and and lite it on fire for a sec then "now are siting down right" it smelt like melting plastic so it is man made, oh and I did the same to a small peace of hatched Chinese mantis Ooth and it wasn't a plastic smell idk what the smell was I'll think on it. So it a fake in my book; the smell of plastic, seeing throught the ooth wil a light, the line all the way around it, and then the inside. Now here you go look  .[/SIZE]























Now how about that


----------



## hibiscusmile (Sep 9, 2009)

I give up ... send it to me.


----------



## Christian (Sep 9, 2009)

Holy S***!! :lol: 

Indeed a fake ooth! I have never seen something like this before. Who sold this ooth? Did it come directly from Africa or via some European country?

That I got to see stuff like this in my old days...


----------



## bassist (Sep 9, 2009)

[SIZE=36pt]ಠ_ಠ[/SIZE]


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 9, 2009)

Christian said:


> Holy S***!! :lol: Indeed a fake ooth! I have never seen something like this before. Who sold this ooth? Did it come directly from Africa or via some European country?
> 
> That I got to see stuff like this in my old days...


[SIZE=14pt]You see I wasnt just be a well but the kicker was the burning of the little pease  , Hibiscusmile &amp; I got it for Villosa who said he gets them from his guy in Tanzania, but who know who made them I dont.[/SIZE]

Hibiscusmile I would go look @ yours again the tops look just like mine try the desk light befor anything eles  .


----------



## ismart (Sep 9, 2009)

Wow! You were absolutley right. They are fake. No eggs or even any trace of the chamber they sit in. I'm so sorry!


----------



## Rick (Sep 9, 2009)

ArkBlue said:


> [SIZE=14pt]You see I wasnt just be a well but the kicker was the burning of the little pease  , Hibiscusmile &amp; I got it for Villosa who said he gets them from his guy in Tanzania, but who know who made them I dont.[/SIZE]Hibiscusmile I would go look @ yours again the tops look just like mine try the desk light befor anything eles  .


Wow. Unreal. I see what you mean now! Didn't others buy these?


----------



## Katnapper (Sep 9, 2009)

Omg... I can't believe someone would stoop so low! I couldn't imagine someone making a "fake" ooth... but now from the pics I believe!  :angry:


----------



## massaman (Sep 9, 2009)

I guess the person who sold this to you needs to drop his sellers or dealers he is dealing from and try to make new contacts with more reputable sellers and dealers then or do some other line of work like flipping burgers or something! Or go find the guy in Tanzania and tell him hes a fraud and a charlatin and needs to get a new hobby or a life and stop ripping people off and almost as bad as the 419 nigeria or dakar,senegal schemes done via email!


----------



## idolomantis (Sep 9, 2009)

Seriously.. who the heck is that lifeless and sinks that low to make fake ooths and sell them?

Wow.. just wow..


----------



## massaman (Sep 9, 2009)

low life con artists like that guy in Tanzania and people need to stop dealing with people from Tanzania and find a different species to work with that is from more well known breeders and or sellers who know what their doing and who wont try to cheat people out of money but if people like Arkblue are gullable or stupid enough to at first pay people from places like that for ooths then they probably deserve what their getting in a sense but I may be wrong or little cruel but this is not a fair world we live in and for what its worth just take the good and the bad and maybe the ugly every now and then to learn what mistakes are made and how not to repeat them in the future!


----------



## Christian (Sep 9, 2009)

> Omg... I can't believe someone would stoop so low! I couldn't imagine someone making a "fake" ooth... but now from the pics I believe!


Well, it's even worse: now, in hindsight, after looking at the ooths *you *have bought, those seem to be artificial, too. I can help myself but LOL!! Sorry for the money that you all lost, this is not funny, but the idea as such is so mind-boggling that I still laugh all the time. It is interesting what people learn to do to scam other people.

As a side effect, I hope that senseless imports of WC Idolo ooths will somewhat diminish now.

By the way, it isn't clear yet if the Tanzanians or Villosa faked the ooths!


----------



## ABbuggin (Sep 9, 2009)

Wow, can't believe it! :blink: It is a pretty darn good counterfeit! I wounder how many of there were sold.........


----------



## massaman (Sep 9, 2009)

I would say maybe half or all of them could be faked perhaps

I would just avoid the entire country of Africa for the case of that species but wonder if the other species taken from africa would also be faked?


----------



## massaman (Sep 9, 2009)

Would be interesting if there could be a piece of paper saying how authentic the ooth is or something like when you purchase maybe coins or something and you get a certificate of authenticity. So in knowing that it is in fact the real deal and not some cheap imitation made by some two bit hoodlums trying to scam people so they can have the nicest clothes and the biggest house and the most expensive cars or watches!


----------



## Kruszakus (Sep 9, 2009)

No way... this is just riddiculous...

What the buck is going on here? I know that lately this forum has been pestered by a bunch of scammers, but this one takes the cake...


----------



## kamakiri (Sep 9, 2009)

ArkBlue said:


> Now how about that


Well, I am a little disappointed. While I like being 'right' and being the lone person who understood and believed you...my ghost ooths from villosa are still 'in the mail'.


----------



## mythal (Sep 9, 2009)

Oh, bugger it. :angry: Well, someone was bound to do that eventually, as there is quite a lot of money to be had with some species.

Wonder how long this has been going on without people noticing it.


----------



## Kruszakus (Sep 9, 2009)

This is just another lesson for those who want to pay less, instead of dealing with renowned breeders - who charge more, but who don't do you in the backseat of a Volkswagen.


----------



## massaman (Sep 9, 2009)

true but not everyone has that kind of money to buy those kind of ooths sadly and not alot of people want to spend alot of money on something that could be a dud or having a mantis being dead on arrival!


----------



## Christian (Sep 9, 2009)

Oh no, this is not true. Everyone should be able to afford them if establishing an own stock was the only purpose. That you are not allowed to breed this species over there is not the fault of the breeders here. But the problem is that most persons involved want more than they actually need, in order to sell the surplus ooths for more than one has spent buying them. This may be ok with Chinese mantids, but not with a species which is already overexploited. So, sorry if my sense of pity isn't much expressed here.


----------



## massaman (Sep 9, 2009)

well as my mom says some people are in it only because they want to see how much money they can make off of the ooth or mantis that average joe is buying and since its not regulated and so people can charge way more then what it should be worth!

I am in it just for the fun and experience in learning but not really in it for the desire to make a quick buck off someone elses expense!


----------



## tier (Sep 9, 2009)

Hi

In his offer, Villosa wrote that the ooth are "checked for parasites and quality". So he is a scammer. Point.


----------



## Christian (Sep 9, 2009)

Wait a minute.. Why?

The quality of the stuff is undisputably rather high, otherwise they would not have gone unrecognized for so long. And, of course, they're free of parasites! :lol:  Noone has asked if they're also free of eggs, so why complaining now? :lol:


----------



## tier (Sep 9, 2009)

You got me, mate


----------



## ismart (Sep 9, 2009)

I take my hat off to the person that actully thought to make fake idolo ooths! Absolutley brilliant! He probally made close to 1,000 dollars selling foam.  I do feel sorry all those who lost there money.  Well just another reason not to buy from people with questionable feedback.


----------



## Christian (Sep 9, 2009)

He should have enough for pens and books now...


----------



## massaman (Sep 9, 2009)

but then again he prob dont care bout what kind of feedback he gets as their are those who dont care one way or another on what kind of feedback they get as long as they get paid!


----------



## planetq (Sep 9, 2009)

Wow..

...just....

...wow..

Wellp, seems like this Villosa guy isn't responding at all with all this hullabaloo yet,

and to me, it's just so obvious that he IS a scammer, and probably not the Tanzanian sellers.

I'm sure we will see him on the forum again, although we will not know that it's him because perhaps he will have a new name.

But still, the fact that he said 'checked for quality and parasites...' wow.. I haven't really witnessed a real scam like this before.

Maybe he is trying to find a way to make fake eggs and insert them in the fake foam right now.

Now THAT, I would be impressed by.


----------



## massaman (Sep 9, 2009)

there is no possible way to make fake mantis eggs or anything like that its one thing to fake a ooth but its impossible to make something to look like eggs in a fake ooth since a real ooth has chambers and all that!


----------



## tier (Sep 9, 2009)

foam with rice = ooth with eggs


----------



## ismart (Sep 9, 2009)

tier said:


> foam with rice = ooth with eggs


+1 :lol:


----------



## Kruszakus (Sep 9, 2009)

I know I'm not gonna get any love for saying this, but I don't care.

If Villosa indeed scammed all those people, then I wonder who is to blame - the gullible users of this community, or the lenient mods. I got warned not to do deals with that user over a year ago, from several members, and I listened. Despite all those signs people still bought from this user, and the account was still active - and now lookey here, what a nice mess we got.

I don't want to rain on your parade, but I think it's time to start thinking a bit more before making a purchase, or allowing someone to "make amends", because it's obviously not working.

If I were you, I'd stick to buying from people that are trustworthy, not those who appeal to my stinginess. And as for mods - rather than giving warning points and banning for harmless innuendos, try to be a bit more decisive about alleged scammers, cuz from what I've seen, they don't take you too seriously.


----------



## planetq (Sep 9, 2009)

Yeah, I don't wanna give any one ideas...but..


----------



## PhilinYuma (Sep 9, 2009)

Older members may remember the 1975 cartoon "Really Rosie" by Maurice Sendak, whose best remembered song was "Thickened Ooths with Rice," or something similar. I don't make this stuff up, you know: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQMmmTK9ibw...feature=related


----------



## revmdn (Sep 9, 2009)

I do remember that Phil.


----------



## agent A (Sep 9, 2009)

who would be shallow enough to send someone a fake ooth, arkblue doesn't deserve that and neither does anyone else.


----------



## revmdn (Sep 9, 2009)

Kruszakus, for the most part I agree with what you're saying. People need to protect themselves and stay away from people with a poor reputation. But however, I know Peter is a very kind, and fair person. I know some people will see this as a weakness and will take advantage of it. Peter gave this member a chance to redeem himself, in this case he was very wrong. If a mistake was made, and I'm not saying one was, I don't feel it was Peter's. All of this seller's info and feedback is out there for buyers to read. Peter should not ever let this person on the forum again going forward. This person should make things right, they won't but should. Again, I totally understand what you're saying.



Kruszakus said:


> I know I'm not gonna get any love for saying this, but I don't care.If Villosa indeed scammed all those people, then I wonder who is to blame - the gullible users of this community, or the lenient mods. I got warned not to do deals with that user over a year ago, from several members, and I listened. Despite all those signs people still bought from this user, and the account was still active - and now lookey here, what a nice mess we got.
> 
> I don't want to rain on your parade, but I think it's time to start thinking a bit more before making a purchase, or allowing someone to "make amends", because it's obviously not working.
> 
> If I were you, I'd stick to buying from people that are trustworthy, not those who appeal to my stinginess. And as for mods - rather than giving warning points and banning for harmless innuendos, try to be a bit more decisive about alleged scammers, cuz from what I've seen, they don't take you too seriously.


----------



## mantisfart2 (Sep 9, 2009)

Why don't you buy an ooth from one of the German breeders or one from here in the UK or Europe? You may have to pay a little more for it but chances are you wont be getting a piece of foam, also this will come from captive bread mantis stock that are more likely to survive than wild caught mantis. If a few of you clubbed together and just bought one or two ooths then divided the resulting hatch between you and established your own breeding stock would this not be a better option? I know we have to initially start with a wild collected ooth to get a species in culture and i have no problem with an individual taking the odd ooth that they find on holiday or getting a friend to send you one, but when money becomes a factor in it and someone realizes there is big money to be made things like this happen or even worse the wild ooths will be collected to extinction. I am not having a go at any individual here this is just my opinion.


----------



## agent A (Sep 9, 2009)

I don't get why idolomantids are so expensive.


----------



## massaman (Sep 9, 2009)

I am sure this would be a good idea to try to establish a culture or two in the U.S and try to do a respectable business with them but you have to first put the bad dealers and sellers out of work first or at least take away their cliental and try to sell them within ones means and not some insane price that it drives away some people who want the species but cant afford to pay alot for them!


----------



## massaman (Sep 9, 2009)

arkblue doesn't deserve it but he should of kept this fake ooth thing to himself or at least not make a big big issue out of it that it is stirring up all kinds of things as it is doing and kept to private emails or something at least so this dont spiral out of control!


----------



## Christian (Sep 9, 2009)

_Idolomantis_ and _Gongylus_ will never be cheap, as they are high energy species, require lots of space and consume plenty of food. Like it or not, but not every species is meant to be for everyone, particularly not for you! I hope you got your answers now.


----------



## Kruszakus (Sep 10, 2009)

agent A said:


> I don't get why idolomantids are so expensive.


Because it's arguably the most impressive species in culture? Besides, I think that all hard to keep species should be expensive to repell amateurs who don't know anything else apart from collecting WC mantids in their gardens and occasionally rearing Tenodera or Hierodula type thing.


----------



## bassist (Sep 10, 2009)

Kruszakus said:


> Because it's arguably the most impressive species in culture?


That's a bad reason for them being so expensive &lt;_&lt; the cost of keeping them and the rest of what you said is understandable though.


----------



## Kruszakus (Sep 10, 2009)

bassist said:


> That's a bad reason for them being so expensive &lt;_&lt; the cost of keeping them and the rest of what you said is understandable though.


That ain't a bad reason - they are huge, beautiful, and their threat display is unparalleled among mantids - they are the Ferrari of the mantis world, they should not be sold at the same prices as Sphodromantis. If Ferrari was as cheap as Wolksvagen Beetle, then it would lose all it's luster - don't you agree?


----------



## Christian (Sep 10, 2009)

On the one hand, the reason that only very few people actually breed this species may also influence the price to a certain extent; it's like everywhere.

It should be emphasized, though, that it demands high financial costs on the side of the breeder, and you have to get these costs back.

Nowadays people think that they have the right to get everything just because you see it on the net. You have to make some experiences before trying to breed such species. Most forget that _Idolomantis _is still much more available than it should be! This is only due to imported ooths, as there are not many breeders, by which I mean breeding over years and offering them regularly. So, if only a few of the experienced breeders are capable or willing (remember the costs and space requirements?) to breed it, why do certain people think they are fit enough for such a challenge just because they raised a Chinese? And, worse, undermining breeding efforts of others by importing cheap ooths?

So, comforting someone like ArkBlue because he got fake ooths? No way. Imagine he had got good ones... But I feel sorry for Becky, this is the second time in a few weeks she got scammed.


----------



## idolomantis (Sep 10, 2009)

^ i agree.

It's like thinking you can drive a car after you learned to bike

But okay something else, this doesn't have anything to do with the scams but, i would, no matter what sort of species it was, buy an ooth for 100$

Sure they're pretty but yet again, one ooth for that price is a bit odd.


----------



## Christian (Sep 10, 2009)

That's why I don't sell ooths of this species: regardless what price you make, one of the parties is always the loser.


----------



## Ian (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm clearing up this thread - please keep arguments to yourselves people, no matter how irritating you may find other members.

Krus, RE the fact that the mods could be to blame for this mishap, I think is probably a fairly foolish thing to say. (Regardless, I still have love you.)

Back to the topic - a false ooth? That is so laugable. Looks to me like it's some kind of expanding foam.


----------



## Avantis (Sep 10, 2009)

Well I read villosa's feedback, there was plenty of negative comments, but some that were giving him the benefit of the doubt after what he had wrote.

I was one who was not fully satisfied with his replies but being someone who will always give someone the benefit of the doubt I ordered a couple of ooths from him.

Luckily, I told him I would only pay half up front, just in case my spider sense was not up to scratch.

I can see from this thread and the images from Arkblue I was right to do so.

I think it's a terrible shame that people will stoop this low to rip people off.

It makes it even more difficult to trust people now. Where will it end? We have to trust someone at some point.

Whenever someone new starts up wanting to sell anything - it will be very hard for anyone to trust them without any feedback. The only way I guess will be for them to ship the goods out and receive payment on receipt of goods.

Oh well....


----------



## massaman (Sep 10, 2009)

The only way I guess will be for them to ship the goods out and receive payment on receipt of goods and only if those goods are real and not fabricated or manufactured !


----------



## cloud jaguar (Sep 10, 2009)

massaman said:


> The only way I guess will be for them to ship the goods out and receive payment on receipt of goods and only if those goods are real and not fabricated or manufactured !


good luck with that


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 11, 2009)

agent A said:


> who would be shallow enough to send someone a fake ooth, arkblue doesn't deserve that and neither does anyone else.


[SIZE=14pt]Thanks little dude B) [/SIZE]



massaman said:


> arkblue doesn't deserve it but he should of kept this fake ooth thing to himself or at least not make a big big issue out of it that it is stirring up all kinds of things as it is doing and kept to private emails or something at least so this dont spiral out of control!


[SIZE=14pt]If I wouldn't of made this post then no one eles would know of the fake Ooths that are out there I know you didnt buy 1 and I hope you never do, but if I help one of our members and friends they it was worth the stuff going on in this post.[/SIZE]

By the way rice would take up little to much time to make, but with this kind of Ooth (the foamy kind) I would get some a.b.c. gum a stick and the foam ;1st start with the stick stuck into a foam block with some paper on it, then you could spray some foam and as it is wet and poping up put in the gum then spray a little more foam , them wait after it is dry you take a tool to shape it into your fake ooth and clean it up. Now why I am saying this is if we think of ways someone could make a fake Ooth then we can think of ways to check them, like Christian said Idolo's Ooth have a vaining and vints on them, also the foam that mantids make is differnt then Man made foams, and the desk lamp test, then the kicker the lighter test takeing a little bit of the foam from the Ooth and burning it to see if its a plastic smell when burned. Anything eles can you all can think of ways to find out if your Ooth is fake?


----------



## Ian (Sep 11, 2009)

http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en-GB...xpanding%20foam

Is my bet.


----------



## Kruszakus (Sep 11, 2009)

Ian, I stand by what I said - I still think that mods should put a heat on scammers, rather than trying to come off as bozos by banning users for innocent jokes.


----------



## Ian (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm sorry, but when two or more parties are involved, one cannot simply point the finger and call someone a scammer. A bad experience is not enough to ban someone, and there are always two sides to a story.

What's more, nothing stops such scammers either signing up a new account, contacting members directly, or advertising elsewhere. I think a bit of common sense and thought from buyers would help. New member, no feedback, cheap prices, good deals, seem to good to be true? Then it probably is. Of course, I'm not saying this is anyones fault. Of course I feel for those who have lost money, as a situation like this frankly could not be avoided. (Imo).

Villosa for example has shown no signs of being a "scammer" before this.

It's very easy for you to say, "put heat on scammers, and ban users for innocent jokes". Firstly, there is a difference between keeping consistancy on a family based hobbyists forum, and "banning users for innocent jokes". If you want to be posting on a forum littered with swearing, inappropriate jokes and spam, then Digital Gangster forums have a place you  Secondly, out right suspending someone and labelling them as a scammer, is a fairly big deal. Not an idea that should be tossed around at the next failing reputation of a seller.

Will Villosa be suspended? Of course he will. It's clear to see that this guy is no good. Regardless, we will still let him have his say on the situation.

Do sellers need to be more closely auited? Quite possibly, and it's something that no doubt we'll be discussing.

But please do not think that we sit back and watch over such situations, without taking any action. Because that's simply not true.


----------



## idolomantis (Sep 11, 2009)

@ Ian:

I think "innocent jokes" was a reference to this:



> 2 wat?


(and no this isn't meant to trigger another discussion on that one)

Although some jokes are indeed a bit obscure, some aren't.



> nothing stops such scammers either signing up a new account


An IP ban does, as long as that person doesn't know how to get a new one.


----------



## bassist (Sep 11, 2009)

I agree with Ian that it's not the admins faults I trust they have gone over things like this amongst themselves there's only so much they can do about people who scam.



idolomantis said:


> An IP ban does, as long as that person doesn't know how to get a new one.


No it doesn't there are a few ways around an IP ban you can't permanently ban someone it's impossible unless you make some really strict registration even then they could probably get through at some point.


----------



## Ian (Sep 11, 2009)

bassist said:


> No it doesn't there are a few ways around an IP ban you can't permanently ban someone it's impossible unless you make some really strict registration even then they could probably get through at some point.


Exactly. A simple unplug and replug of your router will change your IP - and someone thats experienced with scamming will certainly know this. Then there are proxy sites, etc...

Anyway, let's hope people will be slightly more clued up when it comes to buying, now this kind of thing has surfaced. Spending 5 minutes asking for past sales and references could probably save a few select people a lot of money.


----------



## bassist (Sep 11, 2009)

And maybe not buying WC oothecae of _Idolomantis _and other difficult species

;o


----------



## idolomantis (Sep 11, 2009)

bassist said:


> And maybe not buying WC oothecae of _Idolomantis _and other difficult species;o


How about not buying WC oothecae at all?

CB is much more reliable


----------



## kamakiri (Sep 11, 2009)

idolomantis said:


> How about not buying WC oothecae at all?*CB is much more reliable*


Well, I got 'caught' with the CB ghost ooth thread...

Ian is right. Admins are not responsible for policing the transactions.

I know the risk of doing business on the 'net. That's the main reason I use Paypal. I have a case open with them and will not close it until I get what appear to be real, viable ooths.

For those blaming ArkBlue for this situation: Shame on you. If you've never been scammed, you're just lucky, or are not much of a consumer. I am glad he shared the experience...we all should be.

I knew it was a risk based on the feedback. I take risks. Criticize ME for that openly and I'll honestly rip you a new one.


----------



## idolomantis (Sep 11, 2009)

kamakiri said:


> Well, I got 'caught' with the CB ghost ooth thread...Ian is right. Admins are not responsible for policing the transactions.
> 
> I know the risk of doing business on the 'net. That's the main reason I use Paypal. I have a case open with them and will not close it until I get what appear to be real, viable ooths.
> 
> ...


I never said it was completely reliable.

Besides i was talking about the condition of the ooth itself.


----------



## PhilinYuma (Sep 11, 2009)

I agree with Kamakiri on this one, and a good thing too, since my old one has been serving me well for many years and I don't want to change it.

When Villosa offered wild-caught ooths for sale, he wasn't scamming anyone. There has been more than enough information on this thread for anyone to know the risk. He promised to replace any ooth that didn't hatch, but it is obvious that by having one dead ooth replaced by another is not much of a "guarantee."

When you buy stock from your broker who promises that it is "seriously undervalued" and the company folds two weeks later, you don't go around saying that your broker is a scammer, though he might be; you know that you were gambling and this time you lost. I am quite sure that there were experienced breeders who knew that the odds were against them but bought one or two anyway, "just on the off chance." It is not a coincidence, though, that sellers of these ooths never offer nymphs from the ooths that they have hatched themselves.

I am amused to see that the most vituperative critics of the practice of buying WC ooths are those who breed the species themselves. What a coincidence! To extend that, though, to a celebration of a member like ArkBlue being scammed shows a degree of contumely that says more about the speaker than the object of such remarks. It also has the unfortunate effect of discouraging others who either bought an infertile ooth or were outright scammed with a fake one from reporting the fact in this forum. Well done, ArkBlue.

To hold the admins responsible for such sales/dealers is too ridiculous to bear discussion except to point out that Frey was recently deemed a scammer with hands of the wrong sex before his/her fertile ooths arrived in the U.S.

If I had bought a WC ooth, it would still be sitting quietly in its hatching chamber, but no, I had to get some ooths from Hibiscusmile and now I have to go and put a bunch of tiny boxer nymphs into their new home, and set up more ff pots. Work, work, grumble, grumble.


----------

