# copulation questions



## AxolotlsAreCoolToo (Mar 2, 2014)

can a female mantis still be fertile even if the spermatophore was rejected after copulation? other words can the gametes still be received. Also if females are laying ooths readily after copulation and the ones that havnt been mated are not is this a sure sign of fertility?


----------



## Rick (Mar 2, 2014)

What do you mean by "rejected?" I think that is one of those terms thrown around that shouldn't be. The remains of the spermatophore are commonly found some time after the mating so one shouldn't assume the mating was unsuccessful because you see it.

For your other question, the time to lay an ooth is likely based more on age of the female since the final molt as opposed to when she was mated. It is generally safe to assume a wild caught adult female has been mated but you cannot know this based on when she lays ooths. Only way to know for sure is to witness the mating itself.


----------



## AxolotlsAreCoolToo (Mar 2, 2014)

Rick said:


> What do you mean by "rejected?" I think that is one of those terms thrown around that shouldn't be. The remains of the spermatophore are commonly found some time after the mating so one shouldn't assume the mating was unsuccessful because you see it.
> 
> For your other question, the time to lay an ooth is likely based more on age of the female since the final molt as opposed to when she was mated. It is generally safe to assume a while caught adult female has been mated but you cannot know this based on when she lays ooths. Only way to know for sure is to witness the mating itself.


what i mean by reject is after mating when the male disconnects ive seen the female wiggling the sperm package out her end, i assume it is empty and has been received properly i just dont notice this behavior everytime i breed.

How about a group of captive raised females same species that all molt the same week, if the ones that have been mated are already on their third ooth and the unmated ones havnt laid one. how strong of a sign is that of fertility?

thanks for quick response


----------



## Rick (Mar 3, 2014)

AxolotlsAreCoolToo said:


> what i mean by reject is after mating when the male disconnects ive seen the female wiggling the sperm package out her end, i assume it is empty and has been received properly i just dont notice this behavior everytime i breed.
> 
> How about a group of captive raised females same species that all molt the same week, if the ones that have been mated are already on their third ooth and the unmated ones havnt laid one. how strong of a sign is that of fertility?
> 
> thanks for quick response


I would assume she has been fertilized. I've observed that too but still had good matings. If in doubt mate them again.

I'm not really sure about your second question. There will be variability among females in when they lay their ooths. Unmated females lay ooths whether mated or not. Is this something you observed or just something you are wondering about?


----------



## AxolotlsAreCoolToo (Mar 3, 2014)

Rick said:


> I would assume she has been fertilized. I've observed that too but still had good matings. If in doubt mate them again.
> 
> I'm not really sure about your second question. There will be variability among females in when they lay their ooths. Unmated females lay ooths whether
> 
> mated or not. Is this something you observed or just something you are wondering about?


In my own hobby i have noticed most unmated females lay extremly delayed small ugy ooth where as the mated specimens lay quick and uniform ones. This is somthing ill keeep my eye on. Maybe a minor sign of fertility in few species but it know the truth signs are witnessing a lengthy connection or hatch.


----------



## Rick (Mar 3, 2014)

AxolotlsAreCoolToo said:


> In my own hobby i have noticed most unmated females lay extremly delayed small ugy ooth where as the mated specimens lay quick and uniform ones. This is somthing ill keeep my eye on. Maybe a minor sign of fertility in few species but it know the truth signs are witnessing a lengthy connection or hatch.


I personally have never noticed that. I find that ooth characteristics are more a function of nutrition, food abundance, and temperature.


----------



## AxolotlsAreCoolToo (Mar 3, 2014)

Yes that is most likly what it is cause ill tend to feed ooths bearers more and keep the higher on the rack. But good sign to the least that the mated ones are laying good looking oothecae


----------



## hibiscusmile (Mar 3, 2014)

I haven't noticed it either, my walli has mated and her ooths stink! So It is something else I think. I have two bud girls, both mated and both ooths stink! So I don't think that has anything to do with it. As Rick said, mantis and a lot of creatures, birds a good example, lay eggs as they are made that way, to lay I mean. They do not have to be fertile at all.

I also think that just because you see the sperm.... does not mean it did not work. It just may be to much and some escapes or is ejected.


----------



## Precarious (Mar 4, 2014)

No solid answers to most of these questions. I have found unmated females hold off as long as possible before laying. But sometimes mated females hold off for other reasons, such as an unsatisfactory environment to lay on, or lack of food. Mated females can also become egg bound.

Personally, I have never seen a male connect and the female not become fertile. Only in species that tend to die out in culture, like boxers.


----------



## DinehCaveman (Mar 4, 2014)

Was the spermataphore transparent or did it have color to it,light teal or blue or green? If it was clear I'd say the spermataphore was spent. As for ooth laying it depends on many factors. One of my ghosts was mated 3 times and laid ooths after 53 days of adulthood, another was mated 3 times as well and laid ooths after 31 days. They are kept in identical situations, food, temp, and housing. The 2nd girl matured a week after the 1st one and has laid 4 more ooths than the older girl, out her fisrt 3 ooths only 2 nymphs have hatched. The older girls 1st ooth hatched 21 nymphs. So it depends on the particular mantid.


----------

