# P. chlorophaea, O. distinctus, and Rhombodera spp.



## Andrew

I took some mantids out today for some pics.

L4 Phyllovates chlorophaea "light" phase.







"Dark" phase






Comparison






Oxypilus distinctus - L2

Its hard to get a good pic of these guys, they never stop running around!






Rhombodera spp. - L3











And a nice pic of my chaco goldenknee after a molt.


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## hibiscusmile

I don't like the babies dissapearing when the spider showed up :blink:


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## yen_saw

NIce Andrew  Glad to know your mantis are doing great!! and you are going into bugs big time


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## Precious

GASP! Cute little babies and them....OMGosh!


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## Andrew

Sorry to freak you guys out with the tarantula, lol  I've been raising that T since it was a tiny hairless thing, and just look at him now. *cries*



yen_saw said:


> NIce Andrew  Glad to know your mantis are doing great!! and you are going into bugs big time


Thanks.

And are you talking about the mantids or just bugs in general? :lol:


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## Kruszakus

Compared to mantids, the spider is just hideous!

By the way - how long do you wait after the final molt, before you mate O. Distinctus? Mine moulted five days ago...


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## yen_saw

Andrew said:


> And are you talking about the mantids or just bugs in general? :lol:


Either one  you are definately the comeback bug guy of the yr. :lol: We need more people like you making a comeback, together with all the new hobbyist to keep this hobby alive B)


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## Andrew

Kruszakus said:


> By the way - how long do you wait after the final molt, before you mate O. Distinctus? Mine moulted five days ago...


I actually started with ootheca, so I couldn't tell you. Sorry.  



yen_saw said:


> Either one  you are definately the comeback bug guy of the yr. :lol: We need more people like you making a comeback, together with all the new hobbyist to keep this hobby alive B)


Haha, thanks.

Yeah, we definately need more people back. Whatever happened to Jesse(and Stephan too)? At least we got Eros back but he never posts anyways, lol.


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## andy hood

stunning mantids indeed !!


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## Andrew

Some more pics!

_O. distinctus_ L3

I've got about 10 L3's and 25 L1. This species is pretty hardy, very few casualties so far and still communal. Terrible picture, I know.






_Rhombodera spp._ L4

These guys are getting big! Another hardy species, of the 8 L1 nymphs I received still no casualties.






_P. Wahlbergii_

Female has been mature for a couple weeks, male should be molting any time now...


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## yen_saw

Andrew said:


> Yeah, we definately need more people back. Whatever happened to Jesse(and Stephan too)? At least we got Eros back but he never posts anyways, lol.


The last time PM from Jesse mentioned that he has gone to a university in Cali for his Phs in entomology. Stephen went back to Berlin after quitting mantis.


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## andy hood

lovely mantids and spider, great photos too


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## Andrew

After a long vacation to the dark abyss of lost items, my macro lens finally decided it was time to return.

Its nothing real special, but it does seem to help.

Subadult male _D. lobata_






(female, anyone?)

And the usual
















_P. virescens_






_P. wahlbergii_, subadult male

Not a great pic but it shows the coloration coming in on the wings pretty well. This little guy is gonna be molting soon.


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## Andrew

He molted last night around midnight.  






I found him hanging around midnight, he hadn't started to dry his wings yet. I think he finished ~1:30AM.

When my female molted, it was at night too.


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## Andrew

More pics.  

L5






L4(?) - Haven't been keeping track well.






L4(?) - Again, haven't been keeping track well enough.  






First _S. limbata_ ooth hatched.


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## Pelle

Nice pics

Your _O. distinctus_ is a male and needs 2 more times to shed before he becomes an adult.


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## Andrew

Whuuuuhhh? :blink: Two more molts? He's still so tiny...wow, I guess I need to sex them and slow the males down? Do the females not have wingbuds at all?


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## yen_saw

Nice pics. The shield is developing there. should be more apparent after another molt. great job Andrew


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## asdsdf

Pelle said:


> Nice picsYour _O. distinctus_ is a male and needs 2 more times to shed before he becomes an adult.


Wow, how can you tell?


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## Mantida

asdsdf said:


> Wow, how can you tell?


That's what I was about to ask. :blink: The abdomen isn't at a clear view at all. Maybe the antennae?


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## Pelle

Well..

You can see the wingbuds:







And because females don't have wings when they are adult, it's a male.

Here is a pic of a male at the same stage:






And here is a pic of an subadult male:






And that's why i know it needs two more sheds


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## Andrew

Pelle said:


> Nice picsYour _O. distinctus_ is a male and needs 2 more times to shed before he becomes an adult.


Would you reccommend I slow the males down? How many more molts do the females have than the males?



yen_saw said:


> Nice pics. The shield is developing there. should be more apparent after another molt. great job Andrew


Thanks! Really looking forward to the next molt.


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## Pelle

If the males and females are in the same stage i would slow the males down.

I don't have any adult yet, but I suppose the female need one shed more.

Can anyone confirm that ?


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## Mantida

Pelle said:


> If the males and females are in the same stage i would slow the males down.I don't have any adult yet, but I suppose the female need one shed more.
> 
> Can anyone confirm that ?


Yes, females shed one more time than males do.


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## asdsdf

Pelle said:


> Well..You can see the wingbuds:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And because females don't have wings when they are adult, it's a male.
> 
> Here is a pic of a male at the same stage:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here is a pic of an subadult male:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's why i know it needs two more sheds


Wow, sharp eyes. Do you tell if a female's adult when the abdomen is horizontalish?


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## Mantida

Haha, Andrew, they're adorable!  

I can't wait until mine grow up.


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## Pelle

asdsdf said:


> Wow, sharp eyes. Do you tell if a female's adult when the abdomen is horizontalish?


I dont know because I don't have adult females yet, but I read this on the forum a while ago from Christian: 'subadult females have a white dot on each side of the abdomen. Adult ones have an additional smaller black spot behind the white one.'


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## Kruszakus

I'd slow down the males, their lifespan was surprisingly short, I barely made it with mating (the female had one more moult to go, so she had to catch up to the males). One male died after about four weeks, when the female was only ten days after the last molt, and she seemed agressive toward the male. Few days later, out of desperation I put the other male in her container, as she was reluctant to eat - they mated, and on the same day she laid an ooth - but the male died shortly after mating! So - better watch out, otherwise you'll end up with no males.


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## Andrew

Couple pics for now, will get more tomorrow when there's some light outside...

_Idolomorpha sp._ ootheca

Can't wait for it to hatch!  The ooth is actually white, but I took the photo using a heat lamp for light, so it looks kinda orangey.











And another offtopic one. One of my venus flytraps heading into winter dormancy.


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## Morpheus uk

winter dormancy?!

I never kenw they did that, when i had one i threw it out when it went like that


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## Andrew

@ Morpheus - Yep! Most people think they are tropical plants, but they arent.  

Nothin much to report today...

L6 P. chlorophaea





S. limbata...L3 methinks


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## Andrew

Tried (emphasis on tried) to take a few pics of one of my female Oxypilus today. Can anyone tell how many molts she has left? She's around 1cm long.


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## Andrew

Just wanted to share a couple pics I just took for a friend. Horrible pics(especially the lighting in that first pic...eww) but you can see just how small the female is here.

Both are subadult.


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## Kruszakus

Hi!

Could you tell me which instar of Terax Unicorn can take down a fouse fly? I do not know how bug this species gets throughout the molts - but I kinda have to prepare for supplying food for around 28-30 of them.

By the way - how's you I. lateralis ooth doing?


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## Andrew

Crud! So sorry for not positing here sooner!

Looking at my log (hey, guess it did come in handy) I started them on houseflies at L3.

And the I. lateralis ooth never hatched.   

Maybe I will get some more when the weather warms up, but for now, it looks like I'll have to wait.

Photo of one of my subadult Rhombodera.


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## macro junkie

Andrew said:


> Horrible pics(especially the lighting in that first pic...eww)


if u use phototshop u can ajust your lighting before u post your pics..


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## Andrew

Yeah, I'm familiar with photoshop, just don't think I had it installed on my comp at the time.


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## Andrew

One of my _Oxypilus_ molted today! I'm thinking she is probably subadult, but I'm not sure. Can anyone tell me? Adult or subadult?


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## Kruszakus

That's an adult femafe right there, you can tell by the shape of the abdomen.

Small, isn't it?


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## Andrew

WOW! Thats awesome. My males are subadult/subsubadult too, what good timing. Thanks!! :lol:


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## Kruszakus

Remember that the male will be useful for just about 2-3 weeks. I'd introduce him to the female 6-8 days after the final moult - plus, the female has to be really well fed, or she will backlash at the male.

By the way - anything hatched out of I. lateralis ooth?


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## Mantida

Congrats Andrew! I think my female is still subadult, though she's so tiny I can't be sure. :huh: 

Kruszakus, how long does the female typically live? My males are at least 2 molts behind!


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## Andrew

Thanks for the tips.

Nothing from the _I. lateralis_ ooth.  I think I messed up with not enough humidity and keeping it too close to the heat lamp. I'm going to try and get some more in spring/summer.



Mantida said:


> Congrats Andrew! I think my female is still subadult, though she's so tiny I can't be sure. :huh:


Thanks. Its hard to tell exactly what stage they are if you lose track of the molts. They stay so tiny throughout their lives. &gt;_&lt;


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## Kruszakus

Well, if I don't screw up, then I might have some I. lateralis ooths sometime soon (four females are adult, two males are sub-adult).

Well - my female lived for three months, but I think that was because I was keeping her at 35C - she was popping ooths every three days - usually containing about 16-20 eggs, but there were only 14-16 ooths from her - and they can deposit up to 25, so I think that her death might have been premature.


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## Morpheus uk

Brilliant pic, they do look interesting but way to diddy lol,

Id say adult because of the shape of the end of the abdomen

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Sry didnt relise that was already answered


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## Gruby626

double post - delete please :/


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## Gruby626

Kruszakus said:


> she was popping ooths every three days - usually containing about 16-20 eggs, but there were only 14-16 ooths from her - and they can deposit up to 25.


You mean that 14-16 came out from the eggs, not that she layed 14-16 ooths  ?

PS how many molts does Oxypilus needs to become adult? I mean in which L is it adult? I know only its the same for male and female.


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## Kruszakus

Yeah, she popped about 12 ooths which carried around 16-20 eggs - then she started laying really small enes, only 2-6 eggs per each - I knew that something bad was going on with her. The very first ooth was just huge! about 14-16 milimeters long - a really large number had emerged from it - first it was about 16, a couple of days later it was 12, if my memory serves me right.

I dont really know how many moults they need to become adult - some people say that it's 8 moults, but I believe that it's rather 5-6 instead - I really could not count all of them, since I was busy with some other species I was trying to breed at that time.


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## Gruby626

WoW I didn't know that they can lay so many ooths


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## Kruszakus

If you power feed them, they should lay one ooth every three, four days - quite stunning, isn't it?

One tip - strangely, they seem to enjoy crickets more than flys - I'd put on a little bee pollen coating on the cricket, they are rich in proteins, but the rest is not so great. An adult female may have only about 1.5 cm, but she will take on 2 cm cricket and tear it apart - they are extremely ferocious feeders.


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## Andrew

The other female molted







And I expect this male should be molting any time now!


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## Mantida

Probably in the next 24 hours - those wingbuds are so fat!


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## Gurd

Great pics  

Good luck with them


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## yen_saw

Andrew, glad to see you are doing well with the _O. distinctus_. Great work!


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## Andrew

Thanks guys. The male molted last night, and while it was a successful molt, his wings did not dry properly! That could be my fault for using a heat lamp as a light source when trying to take video of the whole thing. I think the extra heat on his wings messed them up. &gt;.&lt;






Anyways, here are a few more photos. Seven of the _Rhombodera_ are still alive and well, and I think five of them are subadult, and the other two are a molt behind still.

Male:






I think he will be molting soon!

And the female chowing down on a cricket:


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## yen_saw

Great job Andrew, so you only lost one from the L2 shield mantis batch from me


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## Andrew

Thanks Yen. Lost one to mismolt around L4/5. *facepalm*

First adult male today.  How long do the males of this species live?


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## Andrew

The first texicorn molted to adult last night.  

If only I had some males! Hopefully I'll be able to get some from Orin in the next week or two.
















Also made an attempt at breeding the _Oxypilus_ today. The female was given a large cricket, which she feasted on until there was virtually nothing left. The male tried to make a move, but waited until she had finished the cricket. There was a whole lot of boxing going on as the male tried to make his way to her, but she turned aggressive and he totally flipped. Fluttered up to the top of the cup(his wings don't look messed up anymore :blink: ) and ran a few laps. So I tried again, and moved him behind her more. She noticed him though, and the second she looked at him, he flipped out again.

Oh well. Will keep trying throughout the weekend.


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## yen_saw

Andrew said:


> Thanks Yen. Lost one to mismolt around L4/5. *facepalm*First adult male today.  How long do the males of this species live?


The male will live for about 3-4 months, if not eaten by the female. HOw far behind is your female? I am sure you have plenty of time left. HOw many males do you have? Again, great job on rearing 7 out of the 8 survive this far. Moulting into adult is not as big of a hurdle compare to mating so you should get all adults aright, best of luck Andrew.



Andrew said:


> The first texicorn molted to adult last night.  If only I had some males! Hopefully I'll be able to get some from Orin in the next week or two.
> 
> Also made an attempt at breeding the _Oxypilus_ today. The female was given a large cricket, which she feasted on until there was virtually nothing left. The male tried to make a move, but waited until she had finished the cricket. There was a whole lot of boxing going on as the male tried to make his way to her, but she turned aggressive and he totally flipped. Fluttered up to the top of the cup(his wings don't look messed up anymore :blink: ) and ran a few laps. So I tried again, and moved him behind her more. She noticed him though, and the second she looked at him, he flipped out again.
> 
> Oh well. Will keep trying throughout the weekend.


THe female isn't ready yet by the souns of it, he may be hurt if the female beat him trying to mate so remove the male at once. Probably give the female a few good days before sending her into his cage again. Good luck!


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## yen_saw

Andrew said:


> Thanks Yen. Lost one to mismolt around L4/5. *facepalm*First adult male today.  How long do the males of this species live?


The male will live for about 3-4 months, if not eaten by the female. HOw far behind is your female? I am sure you have plenty of time left. HOw many males do you have? Again, great job on rearing 7 out of the 8 survive this far. Moulting into adult is not as big of a hurdle compare to mating so you should get all adults aright, best of luck Andrew.



Andrew said:


> The first texicorn molted to adult last night.  If only I had some males! Hopefully I'll be able to get some from Orin in the next week or two.
> 
> Also made an attempt at breeding the _Oxypilus_ today. The female was given a large cricket, which she feasted on until there was virtually nothing left. The male tried to make a move, but waited until she had finished the cricket. There was a whole lot of boxing going on as the male tried to make his way to her, but she turned aggressive and he totally flipped. Fluttered up to the top of the cup(his wings don't look messed up anymore :blink: ) and ran a few laps. So I tried again, and moved him behind her more. She noticed him though, and the second she looked at him, he flipped out again.
> 
> Oh well. Will keep trying throughout the weekend.


THe female isn't ready yet by the souns of it, he may be hurt if the female beat him trying to mate so remove the male at once. Probably give the female a few good days before sending her into his cage again. Good luck!


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## Andrew

Thanks for the advice Yen. Despite what you said I put him in with the female this morning.  He made his move almost immediately this time. She wasn't as aggressive as last time, but still no success. I've been told that this species should be ready after only a week, but I guess mine need more time!.  

There was one more mismolt with the Rhombodera yesterday. A female molting to subadult. Bad luck or low humidity, maybe both. But I have three or four more subadult females, and the rest are male. I don't keep track of the sexes very well.  

Took some more pics today.












And the queen _P. dominula_ that got away from me while I was taking pics. T_T


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## yen_saw

That's alright, looks like you have a well balanced ratio of male vs female. I mated the female after she is 2 week old, and then for some female i remated her after the 3-4 ooth but it is not necessary really. Strangely, I lost most of my males (cannibalism) when remating the females whereas the first time they went alright. One week seems to short, you might wanna try again this weekend.

Very nice pic of your _O. distinctus _and_ P. virescens_.


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## Andrew

Ahh, I worded that badly. They should have been ready after only a week; the females are both 14-15 days, and the male is 8. I'm going to wait a couple days before putting them together again though.

Thanks a bunch for the tips, sounds like the _Rhombodera_ won't be much of a hassle.  

Will keep things updated here as well as my blog as they go along.


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## Andrew

Last night I saw the female tucked away into the _Tillandsia_, and found her making this!






I bought a night time heat lamp, moved the oldest pair into a larger enclosure with live tillandsia and some green moss for substrate, and then set it all up in my closet, where it's pitch black after I turn the lights out. Never saw them mate myself. She laid this after two or three days of these conditions. Hopefully it's fertile.


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## Andrew

Well, left the heat lamp on for a couple hours, then it was lights out. I think they liked the lingering warmth in the pitch black. This is the youngest pair.  

This gives me more hope that the ootheca from the other female is fertile.






My apologies for triple-posting. x_x


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## Kruszakus

So it worked out? Well, congrats!


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## macro junkie

looks like the eggs havent got any foam on..will it still hatch?


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## Kruszakus

Actually, this is what O. distinctus ooth should look like.

Nice thing with them is that after about two weeks eyes should be visible.


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## Andrew

Thanks Kruszakus! Looks like I might be able to tell if that ooth is fertile before it ever hatches.


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## Kruszakus

By the way - my Texicorns turned L6 - man, they are sub-adult already?


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## Andrew

Congrats on the texicorns. I didn't keep track of the later molts very well for my _Phyllovates_, so I don't really know if thats subadult or not. It should be really easy to tell from the budwings.





Two of the _Rhombodera_ females matured sometime during the night.


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## Kruszakus

How tiny... :lol: 

What a beast!


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## Andrew

I thought they would be bigger.


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## Andrew

First adult _P. virescens_.


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## Andrew

First _Rhombodera_ pair is mating.  

But I see a droplet of blood on her abdomen. I hope this isn't serious. She ate something like 9 1/2 adult crickets before this  .






Edit - Pair #2


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## Andrew

It took all this time, but finally I've got my first Rhombodera ooth.  






The texicorns have been like this since late afternoon yesterday. I don't know if they have actually mated or not yet, so I'm just going to leave them like that until he jumps off.


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## Kruszakus

Look at my Texicorns  
















They are so sweet


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## Andrew

Nice mantids! I've got one male paired up with the fourth female, only one more to go after this.  

This girl is enjoying one of the first treats of spring.


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## darkspeed

Andrew said:


>


HA!!! Your dragon style kung fu is no match for my praying mantis style!!!


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## Andrew

My _Idolomantis_ arrived today!


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## MantidLord

congratulations!  How many do you have?


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## mrblue

nice. looks like a female. i bet £1 on it


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## Andrew

MantidLord said:


> congratulations!  How many do you have?


Ten.  



mrblue said:


> nice. looks like a female. i bet £1 on it


Let's hope you're right.  

I looked in today and saw the first one molting to L3. These guys sure do grow fast! I'm keeping them inside this, in the greenhouse.

I may add more branches. &lt;_&lt; 
















Some bad pictures, I know, but I didn't want to open the cage too much because I didn't want to disturb the molting one, and I don't want all those flies flying out. You can really see just how big the L2 are in that last pic, though. An L2 Idolo is about the same size as a subadult female _P. virescens_


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## mrblue

they arent bad pictures at all! thanks for sharing.


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## Andrew

Another photo of the L3


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## Ben.M

Amazing pics, luv the size comparison 1  , must say i do have soft spot for the _P.virecens_


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## asdsdf

Oh, wow. They are huge... :blink: Adults aren't really that big compared to Giant Asians or something.


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## collinchang635

Yeah really nice pics! And really cool mantids!


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