# L4 Ghost has a bubble on her back



## kamakiri (May 17, 2009)

I don't have any pictures of it yet, because the communal tub that she's in is not easy to see through and is also full of feeder flies.

The mantis is about 5/8" or 3/4" and the bubble is over 1/8". It looks to be filled with air, because it's clear and it's probably larger than the volume of hemolymph for the mantis.


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## PhilinYuma (May 17, 2009)

kamakiri said:


> I don't have any pictures of it yet, because the communal tub that she's in is not easy to see through and is also full of feeder flies.The mantis is about 5/8" or 3/4" and the bubble is over 1/8". It looks to be filled with air, because it's clear and it's probably larger than the volume of hemolymph for the mantis.


Oh dear. It sounds fatal, I'm afraid. :huh:


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## jameslongo (May 17, 2009)

How's it holding out?


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## Rick (May 17, 2009)

Why do people tell us this but never post pics? Want to see that.


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## kamakiri (May 17, 2009)

Rick said:


> Why do people tell us this but never post pics? Want to see that.


Whine and ye shall receive!

Apologies for the cell phone-loupe macro!


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## Rick (May 17, 2009)

Can't see a bubble.


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## Katnapper (May 17, 2009)

Can't see hardly anything!  :mellow: Where's your good camera?  :lol:


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## PhilinYuma (May 17, 2009)

Whatever is causing that bubble (I can't really see it either, guess you have to know just where to look!) and whether it is fatal, or reabsorbs ot whatever, I think that it would be a really good idea to get it out of the group enclosure and into isolation. If that bubble bursts in the group enclosure, you won't know what you've contaminated it with, and OSHA will probably get on yr case!


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## kamakiri (May 20, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> Oh dear. It sounds fatal, I'm afraid. :huh:


Phil was right. She was alive this morning but the bubble appeared to have been punctured, and a little crumpled. She was dead when I got home this evening. She wasn't eaten or apparently damaged, so I'll take some pictures when the feeders are done. But as I said earlier, the container that these ghosts are in is not easy to see through...in other words not clear as glass, but rather opaque or frosted. An SLR picture wouldn't have done much better IMO, and I was leaving for the bug fair.


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## jameslongo (May 20, 2009)

I may have missed this. Did the bubble appear over night or did it mismoult? Chances are it was bacterial infection &amp; from the looks of your enclosure in the photo, there is strong evidence for this. How often do you clean it out?


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## kamakiri (May 20, 2009)

jameslongo said:


> I may have missed this. Did the bubble appear over night or did it mismoult? Chances are it was bacterial infection &amp; from the looks of your enclosure in the photo, there is strong evidence for this. How often do you clean it out?


I saw it post molt, so I'm assuming it was during or a result of the molt. Chances are not that it was not a bacterial infection...since there's a LOT of MOLD at the bottom. Seriously, I think if it were a problem, the feeder flies wouldn't survive in the container as long as they do. The very high humidity is a much more likely cause, because they are kept at near sauna conditions. When I don't keep them with moisture or condensation on the container sides, I've had mis-molts. So I've kept the humidity as high as I can.


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## PhilinYuma (May 20, 2009)

So what do you reckon, Kamkiri? Do you think that the cuticle tore during the molt and the the high hemolymph pressure caused a part of the epidermis to pop through the tear and herniate? The trapped epidermis would then become necrotic and pop. Or perhaps you angered the Great Mantis Goddess (Blessed be Her Name)!


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## kamakiri (May 20, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> So what do you reckon, Kamkiri? Do you think that the cuticle tore during the molt and the the high hemolymph pressure caused a part of the epidermis to pop through the tear and herniate? The trapped epidermis would then become necrotic and pop. Or perhaps you angered the Great Mantis Goddess (Blessed be Her Name)!


That's close to what I think, but remeber our discussion on the hemolymph system working in conjunction with the sinuses? I'm thinking there was a tear or puncture linked to one of the sinuses that caused the bubble. There was no fluid in it like in a typical wing bubble.

Here's the same picture with a contrast mask on the area of the bubble:







Perhaps I did just anger the Goddess...for my Mantis Slum Lord conditions!


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## jameslongo (May 20, 2009)

So that white patch was the bubble? That's quite big :blink:


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## agent A (May 31, 2009)

Sorry to hear that she died. May she rest in peace. You said she was L4? Dang namit that's the only instar that ever gets these weird health problems!


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## agent A (May 31, 2009)

Sorry to hear that she died. May she rest in peace. You said she was L4? Dang namit that's the only instar that ever gets these weird health problems!


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## kamakiri (May 31, 2009)

Yeah, L4...just after molting. My guess is that it was from one of the wing buds.


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## agent A (Jun 2, 2009)

Maybe


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## agent A (Jun 2, 2009)

Maybe


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