# P. paradoxa - instar identification



## Mantida (Feb 27, 2008)

Can anyone help me with these two's instars please? I think they are pre-subsubadult, but I'm not 100% sure if that's right or if they are even on the same instar.

Male:







Female:






Both on the same instar?






Any help would be appreciated.


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## Andrew (Feb 27, 2008)

One or two more molts, methinks.


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## darkspeed (Feb 27, 2008)

I believe they get wing buds at sub sub adult. If they just got them then thats where they are, if you havent been keeping up with it it could be sub adult, as the two instars look almost the same.


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## Andrew (Feb 27, 2008)

If they just molted, then I'd probably go with subadult also.


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## Mantida (Feb 28, 2008)

@Darkspeed, I posted a question about wingbuds a long time ago, and Rick said that wingbuds were present on mantids the minute they hatched from the oothecae, they are just too tiny to see. He also said it's just that at subadult when the wingbuds become very, very apparent.

The male just molted recently, the female has been at this stage for a while now. Trying to figure out who I should speed up and slow down at the moment!

Anyone else got any ideas?


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## Mantida (Feb 28, 2008)

I just looked on mantisonline for a picture of a subadult phyllocrania. It seems like my male may be at subadult, but I am not sure about my female since the website didn't show a female subadult paradoxa's wingbuds in clear view.

Need advice from the experts!


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## Tunedbeat (Feb 28, 2008)

So, does color determine the sex with this specie?


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## Andrew (Feb 28, 2008)

Mantida said:


> The male just molted recently, the female has been at this stage for a while now. Trying to figure out who I should speed up and slow down at the moment!


I'ma conclude that the male is now a subadult, and the female is a subsub.

@Tunedbeat - No.


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## Morpheus uk (Feb 28, 2008)

The males 100% sub adult, and the females at the very least pre sub adult


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## macro junkie (Feb 28, 2008)

looks like mine..my male it brown and my female is green..and both are 1 shed away//would u agree they take forever to shed?seems they been sub for ages


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## Rob Byatt (Feb 28, 2008)

They are both subadult.


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## Kruszakus (Feb 28, 2008)

Rob is 100% right - these are both sub-adults - trust me, I have some sub-adults right now and they look the same as yours.


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## macro junkie (Feb 28, 2008)

Kruszakus said:


> Rob is 100% right - these are both sub-adults - trust me, I have some sub-adults right now and they look the same as yours.


mine to.//we all have subs :lol:


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## Mantida (Feb 28, 2008)

Thanks everyone, what perfect timing!  Now to wait out the molt to adult.


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## Morpheus uk (Feb 28, 2008)

I was 50 % right :angry: 

Btw must say im not sure ive ever seen such a beautifully colours ghost mantis!


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## obregon562 (Feb 28, 2008)

Yep look the same as my subs!

By the way the female has the most gorgeous green on a ghost i have ever seen! Amazing!


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## Kruszakus (Feb 28, 2008)

Yeah - about the timing - you may be surprised, they may be sub-adult for a couple of weeks, or a couple of months - so you just never know.

One of my females was really green as well, but after the final moult her wings turned brown - but it still looks cool.


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## albedoa (Feb 28, 2008)

When did the female begin to show her color?


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## Mantida (Feb 28, 2008)

Thanks everyone for the comments on my greenie!



albedoa said:


> When did the female begin to show her color?


She began to green around L3 I think, perhaps L4. By L5 she was about that color in the pic.


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## macro junkie (Feb 29, 2008)

albedoa said:


> When did the female begin to show her color?


mine did at about L5


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## albedoa (Feb 29, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> mine did at about L5


Ooooh, I still have hope for some pretty colors then. Mine are L4, two light brown females and one dark brown male. They already look great, but diversity would be nice.


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## macro junkie (Feb 29, 2008)

albedoa said:


> Ooooh, I still have hope for some pretty colors then. Mine are L4, two light brown females and one dark brown male. They already look great, but diversity would be nice.


oh yes..green is the new brown  heres mine,,not as green as mantida but she cheats..uses make-up on them and none toxic spray paint.  soon as she takes the pics she washes the paint off


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## Mantida (Mar 6, 2008)

Alright, another one guys.

Subadult?











Subsub or sub?


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## macro junkie (Mar 7, 2008)

i would say sub to..its wings have swelled up.

the last pic is sub adult for sure imo.


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