# URGENT!!!Mantis is crippled after molt



## smittys (Sep 4, 2009)

My Praying Mantis was in the middle of a molt the other day but something went wrong. He seemed to be stuck and his body was all bent out of shape. I tried to mist him and I also gave him water but it didn't help. He was still alive later in the day and my husband decided to try to peel some of the dead skin away to see if the little guy would be able to recover. He started moving his legs but he is still bent (almost curled up in a ball) I've been feeding him wet dog food and water which he takes eagerly but he can't move. I see him trying but its almost like he has no control of his limbs. That was yesterday, and this morning he is still alive but in the same position. What should I do? Will he recover or should I end his misery


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## Rick (Sep 4, 2009)

smittys said:


> My Praying Mantis was in the middle of a molt the other day but something went wrong. He seemed to be stuck and his body was all bent out of shape. I tried to mist him and I also gave him water but it didn't help. He was still alive later in the day and my husband decided to try to peel some of the dead skin away to see if the little guy would be able to recover. He started moving his legs but he is still bent (almost curled up in a ball) I've been feeding him wet dog food and water which he takes eagerly but he can't move. I see him trying but its almost like he has no control of his limbs. That was yesterday, and this morning he is still alive but in the same position. What should I do? Will he recover or should I end his misery


Hello. Welcome to the site. Once they get into that position there is nothing you can do. If it can't catch its own food or walk I will usually stick them in the freezer or feed them to something else. He will not recover from that.


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## smittys (Sep 4, 2009)

Rick said:


> Hello. Welcome to the site. Once they get into that position there is nothing you can do. If it can't catch its own food or walk I will usually stick them in the freezer or feed them to something else. He will not recover from that.


Oh that really sucks. He is such a cool little guy. I guess putting him in the freezer is the most humane thing to do. I was just hoping he would be able to recover. Could you tell me what went wrong? Was he too dry to finish the molt or do some of them injure themselves during molts? I just wish I knew what happened because I have another Mantis and I don't want the same thing to happen to him.


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## hibiscusmile (Sep 4, 2009)

Sometimes they hit something under them and when this happens they have no control to move away from it and they start to curl in order to finish the molt, but that doesn't help and they end up badly. Sorry, do u have others? Try to make sure they have enough room to molt without touching anything under them and sometimes more moisture does help right before a molt, what kind was it?


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## Rick (Sep 4, 2009)

It just happens. There is no way to know exactly why. It happens to all of us from time to time.


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## ismart (Sep 4, 2009)

The freezer is your best option now. There probally was not enough humidity for him moult properly.


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## smittys (Sep 4, 2009)

I just gave him his last supper and now off to the freezer he goes. That isn't painful is it? Do they just go to sleep? I'm not sure what kind they are but they are the grayish color. I got them through one of those mail order science projects.


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## ismart (Sep 4, 2009)

smittys said:


> I just gave him his last supper and now off to the freezer he goes. That isn't painful is it? Do they just go to sleep? I'm not sure what kind they are but they are the grayish color. I got them through one of those mail order science projects.


It's quick and hopefully painless.

Can you post a pic of one? They usally sell chinese ooths for the science projects and such. I just don't ever recall seeing a chinese that was is a grayish color.


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## smittys (Sep 5, 2009)

Actually after taking a closer look he is more of just a brownish color. Didn't mean to get anyone excited over a possible new species of manti out there. LOL

Put him in the freezer last night to end his suffering. I was hoping he would show some signs of improvement but he didn't. Sad day at the Smith house


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## vera_renczi (Sep 5, 2009)

insects detect sensations, like they know when they're being touched or if something is wrong with them because they can't fully function properly but they don't feel pain. I think it has something to do with the fact that they lack nociceptors?

yeah hopefully that doesn't strike up some kind of crazy argument, haha


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## PhilinYuma (Sep 5, 2009)

vera_renczi said:


> insects detect sensations, like they know when they're being touched or if something is wrong with them because they can't fully function properly but they don't feel pain. I think it has something to do with the fact that they lack nociceptors? yeah hopefully that doesn't strike up some kind of crazy argument, haha


Oh yeah, I rushed to my copy of R.Chapman, _The Insect_s, knowing that it has a chapter on insect neurology, lots of which I don't understand, in the hope of starting a crazy argument on nociceptors, but no mention of them, nor in another basic text on insects. But yes, insects have 'em, and there are a number of scholarly articles since around 2000. Here's a good one: http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/reprint/204/3/457.pdf. When I was a kid in England, we used to do just this sort of "experiment" on hawk moth caterpillars  . That said, I know that it is a mistake to portray a critter's turning away from a noxious stimulus as "pain." When we smell something unpleasant, we are likely to be repelled by it, but our action is not accompanied by the emotional component that is present when we experience pain. It is fashionable to put down articles in Wikipedia, but its article on nociceptors makes a valuable point (i.e. one that I strongly agree with): "Due to historical understandings of pain, nociceptors are also called pain receptors. This usage is not consistent with the modern definition of pain as a subjective experience."

So I'm afraid that someone else will have to initiate the crazy argument, but I did find a reasonably priced copy of Blum, M. S. (1985). _Fundamentals of Insect Physiology_. which I ought to have, even if I don't understand it, either.


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## vera_renczi (Sep 5, 2009)

I'm so confused now hahah! all I know is that a few years ago I read up on whether or not insects can feel pain in order to put myself at ease after my cat jumped on the millipede's cage lid juuust right and cut one in half. he lived for about four days after that, just moving around a little awkwardly, eating and drinking as normal until he finally kicked the bucked. RIP Cable :mellow:


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## smittys (Sep 5, 2009)

Oh no, now I feel bad about freezing my little guy. My husband said "Just step on him" NO WAY!!!!! I couldn't do that and then I read that freezing them just puts them into an unconscious state and then they just kinda fall asleep and die. Please, please tell me thats true. I feel so awful now.


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## PhilinYuma (Sep 5, 2009)

smittys said:


> Oh no, now I feel bad about freezing my little guy. My husband said "Just step on him" NO WAY!!!!! I couldn't do that and then I read that freezing them just puts them into an unconscious state and then they just kinda fall asleep and die. Please, please tell me thats true. I feel so awful now.


With the exception of mantids in Ohio (see Rebecca? I remember), insects do not feel pain in the sense that we understand and experience it. If they did, we would be deliberately inflicting agony on every insect that we feed to our mantids and that are eaten alive. Ever see an agonized fruit fly?


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## vera_renczi (Sep 5, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> With the exception of mantids in Ohio (see Rebecca? I remember), insects do not feel pain in the sense that we understand and experience it. If they did, we would be deliberately inflicting agony on every insect that we feed to our mantids and that are eaten alive. Ever see an agonized fruit fly?


agreed! I was thinking about this not too long ago while mine ate crickets! I supposed that's how insects lose limbs and such just keep on keepin' on after the unfortunate events. :lol: they just stay concerned with going about their business.



smittys said:


> Oh no, now I feel bad about freezing my little guy. My husband said "Just step on him" NO WAY!!!!! I couldn't do that and then I read that freezing them just puts them into an unconscious state and then they just kinda fall asleep and die. Please, please tell me thats true. I feel so awful now.


I think that by putting the mantis in the freezer you just ended its struggling. don't feel bad!!

whenever my 'pede was dying, and not knowing about the freezer method, a friend suggested stomping him :blink: but the freezer is so much better and waaay less noisy and messy  I just let him go on because I didn't know about freezing but I wish I did, four days past dying giant millipedes smell awful!!!


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## massaman (Sep 5, 2009)

I just flush the dead or dying mantis down the toilet and give them a watery burial and pull the handle and its quicker then waiting for them to die or whatever in the fridge and its quick and painless and nothing to worry about once the deed is done!


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## vera_renczi (Sep 6, 2009)

massaman said:


> I just flush the dead or dying mantis down the toilet and give them a watery burial and pull the handle and its quicker then waiting for them to die or whatever in the fridge and its quick and painless and nothing to worry about once the deed is done!


viking funeral :lol:


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## smittys (Sep 6, 2009)

Do you think that goes for fish too?


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## superfreak (Sep 7, 2009)

quick and painless down the toilet? HAHA youve got to be kidding. seriously, you think that just because you cant see it any more means its dead? they can survive without oxygen for a while. freezing is definitely quicker and far less stressful. plus it wont plug up your toilet.


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## smittys (Sep 7, 2009)

" quick and painless down the toilet? HAHA youve got to be kidding. seriously, you think that just because you cant see it any more means its dead? they can survive without oxygen for a while. freezing is definitely quicker and far less stressful. plus it wont plug up your toilet."

Are you talking Mantis or fish?


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## Rick (Sep 7, 2009)

I used to freeze but now all are eaten by my reptiles. My uromastyx won't touch most insects but he loves mantids. One time a small male flew down into his tank and was gobbled up in a split second. It was an orchid male too.


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## smittys (Sep 10, 2009)

ismart said:


> It's quick and hopefully painless. Can you post a pic of one? They usally sell chinese ooths for the science projects and such. I just don't ever recall seeing a chinese that was is a grayish color.


By looking at some pics on line it looks like a Ground Mantis (Litaneutria minor). I'm trying to post pics but I have a mental block when it comes to computers.

These are pics (not good ones sorry) of my guy a few days before he died mid molt.

http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq219/h...ys/100_2322.jpg

http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq219/h...ys/100_2321.jpg


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## spicey (Sep 10, 2009)

smittys said:


> By looking at some pics on line it looks like a Ground Mantis (Litaneutria minor). I'm trying to post pics but I have a mental block when it comes to computers.These are pics (not good ones sorry) of my guy a few days before he died mid molt.
> 
> http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq219/h...ys/100_2322.jpg
> 
> http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq219/h...ys/100_2321.jpg


Aw, cute little bugger it was. I'm guessing probably Chinese though as they are very common from those kit suppliers. Being that it was still quite a young nymph, it's hard to tell for sure what kind. I had a mix up with some ooths earlier this summer and I'm still waiting on some of the babies to grow big enough to sort out which is which.


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## superfreak (Sep 11, 2009)

i was talking about mantids. The fish would take a long time to die too though.


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