# Violin COMMUNAL?



## CoolMantid (Feb 20, 2012)

My male violin just struck the female in a threat display they both fell from the roof of the cage and started fighting! I seperated them quickly no each has there own cage! I guess the mantid's cannibalistic instict will always be within them! But still I thought it was kind of interesting. But I will still call this species communal. No pictures sorry. I was freaking out when they were fighting and didnt think about taking one


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## CoolMantid (Feb 20, 2012)

They are all ok! No inguries, just a little shaken up!


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## agent A (Feb 20, 2012)

Mine were very cannabalistic when I had them, they can be very mean

Id say keep them separate especially since u only have 2 of them...


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## gripen (Feb 20, 2012)

yup they arnt always nice to neighbors. my ghosts and idolos knock each other down every once in a while.


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## dlemmings (Feb 20, 2012)

I have not done the communal thing yet, the the concensus seems to be Ghost &amp; Gongys are "more" communal than other species.

if one is raising one or two ooths worth they can be kept together IF well fed AND some losses can be tolerated. However prudence dictates seperation if just rearing a handfull the the intent to reach adulthood &amp; breed.

Additionally seperating males &amp; females as sub adults or even pre-sub will reduce mortality in large colonies to better preserve breeding stock.


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## Termite48 (Feb 20, 2012)

I know as soon as I write this there are going to be a score of members who will concur with Alex and others who have written before me in this thread. I am just going to say that I had some beautiful adult Gongy females together in a medium sized Monarch net cage and they got along beautifully. I did not keep males in with females, nor were there other species with these. I have seen with my own eyes one of the most experienced breeders on the Forum, especially with this species raising them communally. If you loose one or two in the effort you will always think that this species should be kept solo. I am convinced that if you can... do that.


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## CoolMantid (Feb 20, 2012)

i only have 2 so I cant offord to lose any


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## frogparty (Feb 20, 2012)

Never say always. Someone will prove you wrong soon enough

With "communal" species I think same sex groups are a safer bet than mixed gender


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## Rick (Feb 20, 2012)

Were these adults?

I never had any issues keeping this species together but adults are not kept together. I am also a firm believer that no mantis is truly communal. They're opportunistic carnivores.


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## CoolMantid (Feb 20, 2012)

I think they are L5 or L6


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## angelofdeathzz (Feb 20, 2012)

When I had Gongy they did not do well as adults together unless they were separated by sex even then it was no cake walk, L1-L7 were fine in the same enclosure, adult males were passive also but the females were aggressive even with each other. But Idolo's on the other hand may grab a molting sibling from L3-L8 once in a blue moon, but once adult they never touched one another ever(not once did I lose a male as a snack) which is the polar opposite, kind of strange?


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## sporeworld (Feb 21, 2012)

Rick said:


> Were these adults?
> 
> I never had any issues keeping this species together but adults are not kept together. I am also a firm believer that no mantis is truly communal. They're opportunistic carnivores.


+1. I love, love, love communal setups! And Gongy's were a great choice FOR a communal setup (and ghosts). I thought the rare care of friendly fire was considered an acceptable loss for the greater prize of a beautiful display (no modesty here). 

As mentioned by others, adult females are the worst offenders. But keeping them well fed will seriously minimize your risks


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## CoolMantid (Feb 21, 2012)

Good to know. Once they molt to adult you got to split them up


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## Termite48 (Feb 21, 2012)

If the adult females are kept together and there is an abundance of space for each and BBs flying and walking around to pick off, they have been fine in my limited experience. As Rick said they are "opportunistic carnivores". I used to have to shoot a few ground squirrels when building a rural road and they are each other at times. Not that that has a lot to do with mantids, but the idea here is that we think we know the habits of an species and they will defy our knowledge at times.


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## sporeworld (Feb 21, 2012)

For me, when I have a big colony of adult females, I can afford the risks of occasional losses. I think the average for my creos was something like 4 full ooths per female. So it wasn't like I wouldn't get a new generation. And with a good size colony, you can't even GIVE them away fast enough! Of course, if you DO get too many, please consider donating them to the Forum Support incentives, before putting them in the freezer (contact one of the administrators).

A relatively small colony of Creos created all these when I wasn't looking. Seriously - when you get the elements right, it's truly explosive growth!


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## agent A (Feb 21, 2012)

And that's why I love creos

If they weren't so awesome they'd make a great feeder insect...


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## sporeworld (Feb 21, 2012)

Hahahah!

I don't know if I posted this before, but they are SOOOO going to fight that classification!

(Not for the squeamish).

Here's a pic of a female Creo EATING and ADULT Idolo!!! No kidding!

She got the Idolo as it was drying it's wings. C-c-c-crazy!! Now that's bad*ss!


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## agent A (Feb 21, 2012)

All the more reason to get a creo

I had a loose subadult creo and a loose adult male hierodula membranacea in my room and the creo ate the hierodulas left eye before I found them fighting and split them up  

Btw wat is a creo doing in an idolo cage???


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## sporeworld (Feb 21, 2012)

Hahah! I'm a sucker for a challenge.

I put all my non-mated Creos in with my Idolos to (A) eat off all the extra flies, ( B) save shelf space for more Idolo cages and © prove that Idolos wouldn't attack the creo females, since it was unlikely they'd flap their wings (males on the other hand DO make decent Idolo feeders - take the air and kiss it good bye!). I was pretty sure I didn't need to worry about them taking out an adult Idolo. Iiiiiiiiiiiiiii know better noooooooow.....!

I've done similar "stunts" for years. Gongy's and Ghosts and Boxers all peacefully co-existed without incident (or significant incident). Hetercheros (sp?) and Brunners did fairly well with the Idolos, but menaced anything smaller (or, with brunners, other brunners - they are SO not communal). I even had adult female Orchids in with the Idolos - without friendly fire.

Even local boys (stagmantis?) in with the big ladies. On that front, there were... ahem... the odd incidents.... 






Two Notes:

One, this is an old photo. The screen at the top in ALL my enclosures has been enhanced with mesh. Screen breaks tarsus. It's weird for me to even look at this photo now.

Two, almost all the local boys mounted the Gongys' (about 6 or 7 that year). But, the ladies won in the end. When the boys fluttered their wings, or dared to fly, they got CHOMPED!!! Every one of them ended up as scraps in the bottom of the cage!


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## gripen (Feb 21, 2012)

Sporeworld said:


> Hahah! I'm a sucker for a challenge.
> 
> I put all my non-mated Creos in with my Idolos to (A) eat off all the extra flies, ( B) save shelf space for more Idolo cages and © prove that Idolos wouldn't attack the creo females, since it was unlikely they'd flap their wings (males on the other hand DO make decent Idolo feeders - take the air and kiss it good bye!). I was pretty sure I didn't need to worry about them taking out an adult Idolo. Iiiiiiiiiiiiiii know better noooooooow.....!
> 
> I've done similar "stunts" for years. Gongy's and Ghosts and Boxers all peacefully co-existed without incident (or significant incident). Hetercheros (sp?) and Brunners did fairly well with the Idolos, but menaced anything smaller (or, with brunners, other brunners - they are SO not communal). I even had adult female Orchids in with the Idolos - without friendly fire.


You a crazzzzzy man!


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## sporeworld (Feb 21, 2012)

Hahaha! Never a dull moment!


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## CoolMantid (Feb 21, 2012)

Did she lay even with mating with the wrong species? I had a dream about a cage with one third colorful with flowers (Orchids), one with lush green plants (Leaf mantis), and one with dead leaves (Ghost or dead leaf)! No seperators they lived together. Wish that could happen


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## sporeworld (Feb 22, 2012)

Some of them laid fine (I happened more than once), but no - no bizzaro babies.

As for your dream - You'd need to plan out THAT tank properly, while have separate tanks to lead up to that one. I think your Orchids will eat everything less than, or equal to, their own size. Same with the Dead Leaf's. Of course, you could always have three DIFFERENT cages - right next to each other - sort of like the seasons (although, I'm not convinced yet that the Orchid Commune will work).

Also, once you get them all setup, don't surprised if you switch the environments around. While the Dead Leaf will blend IN better to the drab environment, I suspect you'll prefer a more colorful backdrop, so you can actually SEE them. That was MY experience, anyway.


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## CoolMantid (Feb 22, 2012)

Ya. That was only a dream. If wish I could do that. I could do that. If I had alot of foilage and used plants as sperators. Like have a thick bush to block the mantids.

A season cage would be amazing. Orchid (Spring) Brunners (Summer) Dead Leaf (Fall) Heterocheta (Winter) Maybe so....


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