# All you out there that sell mantis!



## d17oug18 (May 8, 2009)

i would like to conversate with you!

how would i be able to make something like that successful? does all your sales come from online or partial is personal? i dont know really know how to kick a business off when your dealing with live products! if your uncomfortable talking about it here just pm me =) thank you!


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## hibiscusmile (May 11, 2009)

Any business you go into has to have your all in all, if u half step it, then in this era u will fail. Each business is different. One person may have a lot of outside sales while another has a lot of inside sales, each is different even if it sells the same thing, only because of the different people operating them. So the question is never easily answered.


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## jacksun (May 12, 2009)

d17oug18 said:


> i would like to conversate with you! how would i be able to make something like that successful? does all your sales come from online or partial is personal? i dont know really know how to kick a business off when your dealing with live products! if your uncomfortable talking about it here just pm me =) thank you!


d17oug18, to make anything successful you need 1) a plan, 2) commitment, 3) execution. First you need to define you motivations behind your initial idea. Do you want to do it full time, and can you reasonably do it full time at this point? As a hobbyist, we really enjoy what we do, and often that love can motivate us to exceed and succeed in a business related to our hobby. So now we need to forget about our hobby, and become the business person.

What is a reasonable gross figure for sales for the first 6 months?

What are expenses for the first 6 months including initial inventory, website, gas to visit pet stores, schools, and garden centers to talk sales?

What products are in demand?

What inventory do I need to carry to ensure I can ship in a reasonable time, and provide customers what they need?

Some inventory items only sell in case lots, and often ship times from suppliers can be a couple of weeks. I need to know these logistics to appropriately plan.

What are care and breeding costs on an ongoing basis (flies, crickets, space, shipping supplies, electricity, lamps)?

How am I going to ship?

What do I need to ship?

How much will I have to invest in startup costs?

Do I have competition? Who are they? What do they offer? How do I differentiate myself and my products?

You need to do research, form a plan, make a decision on starting small or medium, or large, commit to it, and then execute. If you don't execute, all your planning and research will be for naught,

Initially I would do some research in your area, drop into pet stores and garden centers and ask if they have Mantids, are they interested in a local supply? Find out what they sell them for before you talk to anyone who can make a buying decision, and offer yours at a price about 50% off retail.

Talk to local science teachers in grade schools, often they want Ooths and a complete habitat kit, along with feeders especially if they are delivered. Teachers are so busy that will help them enormously and word will get around.

Once you get a good feel for your market make your decisions. Be prepared to take orders on these visits, but don't over commit, only promise what you can absolutely deliver. If someone says they get their stock from so and so, find out who so and so is, what they charge, they are your competition.

Sorry I've been so long winded....hope it helps.

I'm sure I've missed lots and others will chime in with more help.


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## Katnapper (May 12, 2009)

Jacksun said:


> d17oug18, to make anything successful you need 1) a plan, 2) commitment, 3) execution. First you need to define you motivations behind your initial idea. Do you want to do it full time, and can you reasonably do it full time at this point? As a hobbyist, we really enjoy what we do, and often that love can motivate us to exceed and succeed in a business related to our hobby. So now we need to forget about our hobby, and become the business person.What is a reasonable gross figure for sales for the first 6 months?
> 
> What are expenses for the first 6 months including initial inventory, website, gas to visit pet stores, schools, and garden centers to talk sales?
> 
> ...


Very nice, Wayne!


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## OGIGA (May 12, 2009)

I'd like to add that you should expect this to be more of a hobby rather than a business. Also, you might want to consider holding off until we're not in a recession any more.


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## PhilinYuma (May 13, 2009)

OGIGA said:


> I'd like to add that you should expect this to be more of a hobby rather than a business. Also, you might want to consider holding off until we're not in a recession any more.


I can't argue with anything said above. The largest and most successful breeder of mantids in the US, that's right, Yen Saw, and all the other experienced breeders out there, like Don L, Ismart, Katnapper and many others, have, in most cases, years of experience (and you have to wait years for that!) and a love of keeping mantids as a hobby. If you set up a mantis business, with say, around ten species of mantis regularly available and run your operation as a business, They Will Undersell You! If you diversify to sell mantid "hardware," like Peter or Hibiscusmile, you will be competing with folks who have years of experience, carefully nurtured contacts, and the loyalty of Forum members, the largest mantis market in the US, they will Outsell You!

So no, I won't offer you encouragement in such an endeavor. Most people don't last more than a year in the hobby, let alone become breeders. I'd suggest that you spend a year or two learning how to keep mantids and selling second instar nymphs on the forum when you have a good hatch. By that time, you will start becoming known and maybe the economy will have improved and you can start thinking about slowly starting a business.


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## kamakiri (May 13, 2009)

...could be a good tax write off for you. Do your homework and come up with a plan first. Odds are if you're asking this question in a forum like this, you are not ready.


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## Katnapper (May 13, 2009)

In my experience of selling extra mantids/ooths... I'd definitely advise you not to quit your day job! I love keeping and raising mantids, but it's definitely just a hobby, and not a worthwhile endeavor for a money-making business (at least for me). With what I spend on everything just to keep and maintain them, LOTS more goes out than will ever come in.

Selling mantids and ooths takes more time and hassle than many people realize too. There's the advertising, getting all the shipping supplies, actually packing up the mantids/ooths, printing out shipping labels and postage and/or going to the post office, dealing with the money exchange (and taking loss of PayPal fees every time someone pays with PayPal), worrying if live mantids will make it to their destination alive, worrying if ooths will hatch, and the time and effort it takes to do all of this..... it's A LOT! Sometimes I think it's a wonder anyone sells and ships mantids/ooths at all!

Unless you really go all out, resesarch and set up a good business model... and then have the goods, ambition, and commitment to make it happen, selling mantids is likely to be just a sideline to maybe make a little money back on the much more significant amount you spend in the hobby.


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## jarek (May 13, 2009)

well I asked in the petshop in Leeds "how the business is going, now that we have the recession" and the guy said that the pet industry doesn't suffer that much, although they had to rise some of their prices, but they're still doing fine, so maybe recession isn't that much of a problem.

I tried to make business of it. I was fourteen at that time, I bought my self a pair of Plistospilota guineensis because they were new species in captivity in Poland so I thought they would sell preety nice if I breed these. I raised them to adulthood and they mated successfully, soon my female laid her first ooth, I incubated it carefully, and I had lots of nymphs. When I tried to sell them it turned out that lots of other people also been selling these and I was unable to compete. I have sold few of them but, I gave away more so I was at loss. I was a dumb kid . Now that I have the experience i may give it another try someday...  

Now I also try to breed mantids but I think more about continuation of my mantids bloodline than profits


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## hibiscusmile (May 13, 2009)

Lot of good advice here, especially Phils! Listen to him.


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## rensallar (May 13, 2009)

I'd imagine it would be pretty hard to earn enough money by selling mantises / ooths to make a living off of.

I would agree with keeping it a hobby, enjoying it, and maybe just selling some of your extra nymphs on craigslist or locally. It must be especially hard to ship them now, with the weather heating up (been reading the thread about summer shipping). I've been giving away lots of my recently hatched nymphs to family members and friends who are all enjoying them.

When I tell friends or people at work about my new hobby, they're very interested in them. When I offer to give them some, almost all of them offer to pay me. But since I got my ooths pretty cheap, I've just been giving them away so I can spread the joy. I could have been making a little bit of a profit just from doing this if I accepted their money though.


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## OGIGA (May 13, 2009)

kamakiri said:


> ...could be a good tax write off for you. Do your homework and come up with a plan first. Odds are if you're asking this question in a forum like this, you are not ready.


Oh you are a genius! I'm not exactly sure how these tax laws work, but do you get to deduct your personal income if you end up with a loss?

The other question is... is it legal to do this kind of business?


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## rensallar (May 14, 2009)

OGIGA said:


> Oh you are a genius! I'm not exactly sure how these tax laws work, but do you get to deduct your personal income if you end up with a loss?The other question is... is it legal to do this kind of business?


I would think that you would need to start a corporation in order to write off the losses. I have an S-corporation, and the fees to start/maintain it, and the payroll taxes and the quarterly minutes statements, etc.. paperwork are costly and a pain. The good thing is, you can write off your gas / auto / a % of your home and utilities as a home office.


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## d17oug18 (May 14, 2009)

wow nice feed back, nice comments, well im making a site from scratch and i dont have any extra nymphs except to breed, and im pretty sure if i do start it up it wont be till i have another successful hatch, ive already heard from most of you that i should not make this full time, which i wont lol, and one thing i need to do is start making cultures, which is another thing i havent been able to do(had time to do it). One thing i know for sure is that WHEN i start this up, i wont be for another year at least! and the way things are going economy wise, it may not happen anywaz lol! oh well, ill put up my site without the options to sell you guys can give me some pointers. Thanks guys youve all been really helpful!


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## sk8erkho (May 24, 2009)

The reasons stated above by Phil, Katnapper and others are the reasons there are not a lot of returns when you do a "mantids for sale" search on the net. the basic sites like, USA Mantids, Mantis Place, Bugs in Cyberspace, Ken the Bug guy and maybe Mantidkingdom and Live mantids ( to some extent) are the top of the charts, so to speak, here in the US. I can't say what they make selling via their sites but I'm sure they all have other sources of income .So, these guys have put in their time, blood sweat and tears and the rest is history. It's not to say you won't be successful at it but the odds are stacked dude. These guys _Are_ the "mantid business in the US.", the other breeders who sell via the forum are mostly hobbyists as well. So, as they have said, it takes a lot of time research, trust on the part of your buyers as well as getting or developing decent suppliers both here and abroad you have to have those contacts and they are not in the yellow pages nor are they going to turn up in a net search either!! So, good luck with you future venture!!! heck, if you are successful in say a few years time it wold be cool having new breeders in the pool!!


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## hibiscusmile (May 24, 2009)

As far as write offs go, a dba is able to use them too, and u can write off a percentage of your elec, water, rent for the room u use, or a portion of it. lots of benefits to not being a corp.


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## PhilinYuma (May 24, 2009)

hibiscusmile said:


> As far as write offs go, a dba is able to use them too, and u can write off a percentage of your elec, water, rent for the room u use, or a portion of it. lots of benefits to not being a corp.


Yes, Doug, that's a good point. And if the name of your DBA doesn't include your legal name, you'll need to advertize when you file the DBA (I'm not sure whether that is true for all states, but it is for CA and IL).

The SBA has given free advice over the phone on all aspects of small business start up and management for decades,

and can be reached here: http://www.sba.gov/contactus/index.html. It helps to write out yr questions first!


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## d17oug18 (May 24, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> Yes, Doug, that's a good point. And if the name of your DBA doesn't include your legal name, you'll need to advertize when you file the DBA (I'm not sure whether that is true for all states, but it is for CA and IL).The SBA has given free advice over the phone on all aspects of small business start up and management for decades,
> 
> and can be reached here: http://www.sba.gov/contactus/index.html. It helps to write out yr questions first!


you want me to write my questions here? lol or on that site you gave me =P


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## d17oug18 (May 24, 2009)

By the way, the site is up only 2 pages work, contacts and about(ps. all writing is goobily gook just to see wat it looks like) goto the contacts page and submit some stuff so i know it works www.d-place.host22.com


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