# Limbata ooth?



## agent A (Feb 5, 2012)

hello all, I was sent an ooth labeled as stagmomantis californica, but i am not convinced it is californica

i think it's limbata

here is how the following pics go:

the 2 compared to each other, my new ooth, and yen's old californica ooth,


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## CoolMantid (Feb 5, 2012)

If you are unsure. YOu can look at some google images. Remeber S. Limbata and S. Californica are almost idenctical species.


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## happy1892 (Feb 5, 2012)

Maybe you can ask on bugguide.net.


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## happy1892 (Feb 5, 2012)

Those are good pictures agent A.


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## CoolMantid (Feb 5, 2012)

Happy1892 helped me out to idnetify the species. S. Limbata are completely brown with a light brown zipper.


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## happy1892 (Feb 5, 2012)

So that is Stagmomantis limbata right?


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## CoolMantid (Feb 5, 2012)

No the other picture I showed you was a Stagmomantis Limbata. This is a S. Californica. Agent A- I have 2 more fo these strung in my backyard.


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## happy1892 (Feb 5, 2012)

You wrote "S. Limbata are completely brown with a light brown zipper." The one in the picture is completely brown with a light brown zipper.


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## happy1892 (Feb 5, 2012)

Which one is yen's old californica ooth?


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## happy1892 (Feb 5, 2012)

The lighter colored one or the dark one?


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## CoolMantid (Feb 5, 2012)

The one I sent Agent A is the darker one

S. Limbata are completely brown

S. Californica are Dark Brown with a white zipper like in the picture


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## CoolMantid (Feb 5, 2012)

This is my S. Limbata. See the difference


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## CoolMantid (Feb 5, 2012)

Sorry its so blury. Its the only picture I have


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## agent A (Feb 5, 2012)

The lighter, fatter one is yens and the long thin one is yours

Personally I don't care which it is

I did have problems with californica before so maybe limbata is something better

U said it yourself, they r almost identical, so it doesn't really matter, though I'd still like to know wat it is definitively


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## CoolMantid (Feb 5, 2012)

I sent the S. Limbata ooth in the picture to Carey and the S. Californica to you. I saw the female laying it.


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## agent A (Feb 5, 2012)

then i'm thinkin that there is some variation in californica, since yen's ooth is from an arizona female and yours is from california, the structure of the ooths may vary

just a guess though, rick will probably read this and go "the ooths of the same species will not have that much variation" or something but i'm not sure what it is

i'm stumped


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## ismart (Feb 5, 2012)

The lighter colored one is a californica ooth. The darker one is a limbata ooth.


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## agent A (Feb 5, 2012)

i thought so!!!


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## CoolMantid (Feb 5, 2012)

No I have to disagree.

The adult females of both species are nearly identical except for a small difference in coloration in there hindrwings. I sent an *S. Limbata to Carey*

Personally, I think that S. Limbatas are very rare to find in CA but I have found an S. Limbata at the basketball court at my school. I did check the hindwings (yellow and discovered it was and S. Limbata) (Maybe not as rare as I thought) There is also a very distinct difference in their ootheca. S. Limbata is shorter and more wide compared to s. Californcia which is Longer,.

In adults S. Limbata show more Molted Colors in brown while S. Californica are more of a solid green. To tell a complete difference look at the top of the abdomen near prothorax, S. calilfornica has 3 dark color stripes while S. limbata has none. S. californica has black hind wings with reddish color on coastal vein region and purplish at the base. *The adult mantis who laid and ootheca (Its the one is sent you) had a red hindwing*. So you have to look at color,wing difference, and ootheca to tell the difference in this species.


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## agent A (Feb 6, 2012)

I have an easy way of solving this

When carey gets the ooth, she posts pics of it, maybe u mixed the ooth up or something

And when the ooth hatches we'll see wat the nymphs grow into


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## CoolMantid (Feb 6, 2012)

She got the ooth the same time as you. Also I told you, I couldnt garentee fertility of the ooth because I found the female. But you still wanted the ooth. So it might not hatch.

My blurry picture I posted is the one Carey Requested. Thats the one she has now.See the major difference. Also ask Yen how she got that ooth she gave you. if she found a female. She couldv'e mixed up the nearly identical species. I really hope I didnt get confused and sent you the S. Limbata!* *I know the ooths are from different species* *Why dont you talk to Carey and see what she thinks?!


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## CoolMantid (Feb 6, 2012)

If it hatches I think the ones that start as dark brown hatchlings are the _S. californica_, and _S. limbata_, which looks similar, but is larger, and the nymphs hatch out bigger and pale cream color.

I've been doing research to show you the difference. But I found out S. Carolina live in CA too!!! They are also incredilby simmilar! So it could be one of those!


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## CoolMantid (Feb 6, 2012)

So I found this picture.* ITS NOT MINE *

This is a Stagmomantis Limbata hindwing


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## CoolMantid (Feb 6, 2012)

This is Yen Saws picture

Its a Stagmomantis Californica

Do you see the difference!?


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## CoolMantid (Feb 6, 2012)

Also Stagmomantis Carolina is extremly rare in CA!


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## happy1892 (Feb 6, 2012)

They are very different. I have read that Stagmomantis carolina only lives in the southern part of California.


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## CoolMantid (Feb 6, 2012)

I am in Sourthern CA


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## happy1892 (Feb 6, 2012)

I caught a female Carolina Mantis in Wake Forest, North Carolina. They are small and cute! She laid a fertile ootheca.


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## agent A (Feb 6, 2012)

first off, yen is a guy, and i see the difference

i know the differences between the two, but I dont know what YOUR female looks like

only you do, but i dont have any view of her

anyways i think u may have mixed up our ooths but it doesn't matter to me

if carey got the californica and i got the limbata, and if she wants the limbata really badly, carey and i could easily swap ooths

if u accidentally switched the ooths it's perfectly ok, peeps make mistakes, not the end of the world


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## GreenOasis (Feb 6, 2012)

S. carolina are widespread throughout the US, while the S. californica are only in certain areas (primarily California). I am waiting for my pictures to transfer, but suffice to say the the ooth I received doesn't look much like the Limbata ooths I had previously at all.

The fact that I can't even FIND pics of an S. californica ooth through Googling suggests that the species is more rare than anyone thinks. It would be nice if this is an S. californica ooth, if that is the case.  

Well, I will drop off my orders at the PO while I am waiting for my pics to arrive in my email...and come back to this thread a little later. TTFN!


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## agent A (Feb 6, 2012)

i think u may have the cali ooth

i raised some from yen once, it was a disaster!

out of 50 nymphs, 8 came out alive

they died soon afterward

then 12 more hatched 3 weeks later

6 made it to L5 then one by one died off


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## GreenOasis (Feb 6, 2012)

Must be why they are so rare!


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## agent A (Feb 6, 2012)

GreenOasis said:


> Must be why they are so rare!


i had a messed up summer for many reasons which may have contributed to all this as well

also the ooth was incubated cool and mayve been diapaused too cold


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## CoolMantid (Feb 6, 2012)

Stagmomantis Californica are in my backyard. (Might be casue I released an ooth there) So there are not that rare and Stagmomantis Limbata are all over my school.

Carey I am 100% sure yours is a Stagmomantis Limbata. (She was nice solid green) (She glided to the floor, showing her yellow hindwings)* But some kids were messing around with her while she was laying so I can not garentee fertility. *

*As for you Agent A, I am 90% sure it is a Stagmomantis Californica. (She was mottled brown) (She laid it in my captivity, 4 days after I found her) So I also can not garentee fertility *


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## agent A (Feb 6, 2012)

the messing of her will not affect fertility

whether or not she mated will be the deciding factor  

we'll see wat happens when they hatch


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## CoolMantid (Feb 6, 2012)

If you want to swap ooths. That is fine by me.

If the molt to adult please PM me or email me and tell me what their hindwing color is or look at the other ways I told you to tell the difference.


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## CoolMantid (Feb 6, 2012)

agent A said:


> the messing of her will not affect fertility
> 
> whether or not she mated will be the deciding factor
> 
> we'll see wat happens when they hatch


No, Agent A you dont get it. She could've been fertile but as she was laying never got the chance to lay the eggs in the foam becasue of the kids poking her.


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## agent A (Feb 6, 2012)

u shoulda beat the living daylights outa those kids lol!!!    they shouldnt poke a mantis laying an ooth?

wat were they thinking? that it was gonna lay FASTER if they poked the eggs out of it?


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## CoolMantid (Feb 6, 2012)

I started to yell at them and then my P.E. Coach joined in. We were both yelling at them.

Poor female. I let her go and kept the ooth after shcool.


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## agent A (Feb 6, 2012)

i can imagine that lol


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## CoolMantid (Feb 6, 2012)

It was fun. I think he animals. He picked up a giant spider with his bare hands


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## agent A (Feb 6, 2012)

i do a lot of crazy stuff with animals as well


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## CoolMantid (Feb 6, 2012)

Like what?


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## agent A (Feb 6, 2012)

brought my pseudoharpax to school and walked around with her on my face for a while


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## CoolMantid (Feb 6, 2012)

That must be fun!


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## agent A (Feb 6, 2012)

it was  

then my Latin teacher got pissed off at me lol


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## CoolMantid (Feb 6, 2012)

My friend brought his toad to school.; The science teacher took it a way and killed it because he forogt to give it any air.


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## agent A (Feb 6, 2012)

wat kinda toad? if my science teacher killed one of my toads i'd put the dead toad in his salad then i'd sue him lol


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## CoolMantid (Feb 6, 2012)

It was a toad he foudn a week in advance. My friend wasnt sad thoguh


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## GreenOasis (Feb 6, 2012)

Okay, guys...verdict is in...I do not believe that this is an S. limbata ooth. Possibly S. carolina or S. californica, but definitely not S. limbata.

Below you can see the differences between the one that Alex sent to me and the Limbatas that my girls laid last year. (One large "first" ooth and a smaller "subsequent" ooth.)

The ooth that was sent me is not the right color or shape. It is not nearly round enough to be a Limbata. The fact that the "zipper" is already open worries me.

Alex, you said that you had been keeping it "cool" before shipping it, and it IS normal for those "fins" to open up as they are incubating &amp; getting misted, but...it seems a bit early for them to be THAT open...it usually looks like this right before hatching, not a month or so earlier. And I looked at it under a 10x loupe with a flashlight &amp; saw actual openings (into the ooth) in the fins (indicating nymphs have already emerged.) I will continue to incubate as if it is fertile &amp; such, but as of right now, it doesn't look very promising. :no: 







If nymphs do emerge, I will keep you guys updated.


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## CoolMantid (Feb 6, 2012)

Carey. I saw the mantis laying that ooth in Early November. So they have not hatched yet.

I did some more information. S. Carolina also have yellow hindwings. So it might be S. Carolina.

It is definetly not S. Californica or S. Limbata.

No that means that yours (Agent A) Is most likely S. Californica.

Carey and Agent A I feel really bad about messing up your order.

I will PM you with some discounts for my website.


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## agent A (Feb 6, 2012)

My californica ooths fins flaked upward during diapause so dont worry Carey

We r reasonable peeps who can help each other out if need be (hey, I'd I get a good mated female I can send u many ooths)

Mishaps happen even with the best peeps, don't feel bad


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## happy1892 (Feb 7, 2012)

It looks very different from the two Stagmomantis carolina oothecae I have now. That ootheca looks strange.


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## happy1892 (Feb 7, 2012)

Maybe the picture makes it look different.


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## CoolMantid (Feb 7, 2012)

I am very curious what its is. (It can only be a Stagmomantis species) Casue of the adult female that I saw. Uggh why do they have to be so identical

Maybe you could sell it as an unknown species on your website. kinda stupid though


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## happy1892 (Feb 7, 2012)

Here are two pictures of one of my Stagmomantis carolina oothecae, Link, Link.


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## CoolMantid (Feb 7, 2012)

I dont know what it is then?


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