# My Mantis is a mess... I really need advice.



## FleshOdium (Jun 11, 2014)

I have had nothing but a terrible experience with my mantis. This is my first time ever owning one, and probably my last. It's been nothing but a struggle and bad experience unfortunately. If it wasn't due to fly supply places being shady and leaving me foodless and forcing me to open up paypal disputes for my mantis on a few occasions, it was him getting hurt. I think I'm just not cut out to be a mantis owner as much as I adore them. It's saddening and stressful for me, not to mention my poor Ghost Mantis. I love him so damn much. And all I do is cry when ever I see him rather than feel happiness now...I just feel like such a mother.

I have owned this Ghost Mantis since about November/Oct 2013. So he's a bit older now and fully into his wings. It was a little before his big wing molt that things started going downhill for him. First was his back left foot. It got injured due to me closing the lid on it slightly. I panicked, came here and found out that he'd be ok. WHich seemed to be the case. Things seemed to be going well, but then after his first big wing molt another issue arose, he fell! He survived the fall even though it was so soon after his molt. And everything seemed somewhat normal. However a while later (weeks?) I wake up to find him there with his wings extended. (first pair) and they have been extended ever since. He's not flown since either as he just keeps them up, other than that he seemed ok and ate normally, so I left him be. Then a few weeks later during one of my many misadventures with fly pupae (not having any due to mail mess ups and AZ weather) I had to feed him crickets. And I guess when I was letting him do his thing one day yet another terrible thing happened. I returned to find his back leg GONE. Like.. it was now on the ground. I believe it was the injured one, and now also the other one on the same side now seemed injured. It was a mess. It's been a week or so since the loosing of the legs happened and it's been a nightmare. He also hasn't molted since.

This leg loss has effected his climbing (when he tries he usually falls down after a while, either because he tried to attack something while on his stick or where ever and it put him off balance, or he's let go with almost every foot but one and he falls), and it has effected his catching of prey (he still can and does it, but it takes a loooot longer. But it's harder for him to see the prey when he's more concerned about holding himself on whatever he climbed, or when he's face first in the substrate that I added for softer falls, his tilt puts him at a terrible angle for seeing the flies). 

I have done everything I can for him to make things easier for him, including the substrate for softer falls and also a small but wide ramp covered in mesh for him to hook into and climb. I have also moved him when he needed and made sure to usher whatever food I can to him. But it's just a really sad state to see him in and doesn't seem to be getting any better. Not to mention he seems less and less inclined to move or even climb anymore. I would really love some advice for my poor baby... Thank you.


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## Domanating (Jun 11, 2014)

Well, first things first. If you lack a closeby grassy place to find insects and you're unwilling to spend money for their food, there's no point in keeping them but kudos for trying hard.

As for the wings, if they are extended up or frilled, it means the molt has gone bad and they didn't develop properly. However badly developed wings are common to happen in captivity and it's harmless. Also female mantids rarely or never fly. The best they can do is glide in most species. Once they get their wings, they never molt again. I deduce yours a female due to its lifespan.

As for the limb loss and lack of coordination, it's caused by old age. While it's not common for an old mantis to have a whole limb just break off, it's perfectly possible. It's rare to have old mantids without at least partial limb loss.

As time goes by your mantis will become more and more sluggish as she ages and will eventually die as her organism slowly shuts down. Most old mantids die from infections, whose weakened immune system can no longer fight against.

What you are experiencing is perfectly normal and if you intend to continue keeping these insects, you'll see a lot of this. But don't expect it to be so linear. There are plenty of cases where an active and apparently healthy old adult can suddenly fall dead the next day.

Edit: You can help your mantis catch food either by hand feeding her or intentionally crippling her prey. (Ex: cut the wings off flying insects, disable the jumping legs of crickets/grasshoppers)


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## Sticky (Jun 11, 2014)

It sounds like he is elderly now. He needs to be in a different more protective setup. I make little blankets for my oldsters to lay on when they cant climb either at all or its unsafe for them. Several people here have tried them and like them. Some use a wash cloth or other soft material so they can cling to it and stay safe. Sometimes it takes awhile for the mantis to realize it cannot climb anymore.

Try feeding him by hand, I catch moths here in Maine and hold the moth by the wings with tweezers. Same with flies. Its easier for the mantis when you are helping him catch it right in thier face. Dont forget the water. I use a baby spoon, others here like droppers.

I know this is hard and you feel bad but it sounds to me like you have done a very good job caring for your little man. I hope you dont give up and try more mantids. There are members here who can add to what I said about caring for elderlies. Good luck and dont give up yet!


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## FleshOdium (Jun 11, 2014)

Domanating said:


> Well, first things first. If you lack a closeby grassy place to find insects and you're unwilling to spend money for their food, there's no point in keeping them but kudos for trying hard.
> 
> As for the wings, if they are extended up or frilled, it means the molt has gone bad and they didn't develop properly. However badly developed wings are common to happen in captivity and it's harmless. Also female mantids rarely or never fly. The best they can do is glide in most species. Once they get their wings, they never molt again. I deduce yours a female due to its lifespan.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for the advice, that makes sense too as he is quite sluggish. Although I would like to clarify that I'm not unwilling to pay for food. I've spent tons on him happily and bought the appropriate food supply since I got him, however getting flies here to AZ has been heck. The one place I bought from had a really terrible business owner who left me without flies on a few occasions by sending me bad/unviable pupae and rather than sending me new ones argued with me every time leaving it past a few weeks of me not having pupae and forcing me to get crickets while I waited on the fly fiasco to clear up.



Sticky said:


> It sounds like he is elderly now. He needs to be in a different more protective setup. I make little blankets for my oldsters to lay on when they cant climb either at all or its unsafe for them. Several people here have tried them and like them. Some use a wash cloth or other soft material so they can cling to it and stay safe. Sometimes it takes awhile for the mantis to realize it cannot climb anymore.
> 
> Try feeding him by hand, I catch moths here in Maine and hold the moth by the wings with tweezers. Same with flies. Its easier for the mantis when you are helping him catch it right in thier face. Dont forget the water. I use a baby spoon, others here like droppers.
> 
> I know this is hard and you feel bad but it sounds to me like you have done a very good job caring for your little man. I hope you dont give up and try more mantids. There are members here who can add to what I said about caring for elderlies. Good luck and dont give up yet!


I did just that last night. I moved him into a smaller enclosure where he could get around and put in a big soft paper towel. He really seems weak though. His fly catching ability seems hindered now even. He's just slow and mopy.

Thank you very much for the kind words. It really makes me feel alot better. I may try mantis' again. We shall see. Someone here offered to give me an easier breed. So who knows!


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## sally (Jun 11, 2014)

It sounds like you really did do a nice job raising your ghost. It is just older now.. Ghosts are supposed to be easy but they are one if the breeds I had no luck with mating so far :S


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## Domanating (Jun 11, 2014)

Sticky said:


> Dont forget the water.


That's something I completely forgot about and I'm here to enforce it. Old mantids usually drink a lot of water. Your ghost will be ready to drink a good amount every day.


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## Acro (Jun 11, 2014)

I agree, water will help keep a mantis going.

Spray Spray Spray, or drip drip drip, we are not talking water bowls.


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## MantidBro (Jun 11, 2014)

when mine lost a leg and a few feet, she was old as well, i took a piece of cardboard and used a hole punch to put a bunch of holes in it. i had to bend it in half a few times so itd get the whole piece. but they can hook their claws in the holes. and if you put it at an angle, not straight up, but slanted, then your mantid could do some climbing.


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## FleshOdium (Jun 11, 2014)

sally said:


> It sounds like you really did do a nice job raising your ghost. It is just older now.. Ghosts are supposed to be easy but they are one if the breeds I had no luck with mating so far :S


I feel alot better after hearing about this being the norm and age rather than me just being a terrible owner. ; - ; Thank you. Also yeah he's one picky, easily scared eater. It's been tough.



Domanating said:


> That's something I completely forgot about and I'm here to enforce it. Old mantids usually drink a lot of water. Your ghost will be ready to drink a good amount every day.


Thank you. Yeah I make sure he gets enough now. I think I noticed how voraciously thirsty he was a little bit ago and began spraying more frequently.



Acro said:


> I agree, water will help keep a mantis going.
> 
> Spray Spray Spray, or drip drip drip, we are not talking water bowls.


Thank you. Yeah I have a small eye dropper for him now that I hand water him with.



MantidBro said:


> when mine lost a leg and a few feet, she was old as well, i took a piece of cardboard and used a hole punch to put a bunch of holes in it. i had to bend it in half a few times so itd get the whole piece. but they can hook their claws in the holes. and if you put it at an angle, not straight up, but slanted, then your mantid could do some climbing.


That's a perfect idea! Thank you.


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## FleshOdium (Jun 13, 2014)

Small update but I finally decided to put my boy in the freezer. He wasn't eating or even moving anymore. And refused to hand feed. I did not wish to see him starve to death. It's was a bitter sweet day today. I plan to frame his body though to keep him with me for years to come...

RIP Frost. And thank you for everyone's help.


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## MantidBro (Jun 13, 2014)

im sorry about how things went, i think it was the right choice to freeze him rather than let him starve and suffer. its never fun to do it but sometimes its the right thing to do.


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## FleshOdium (Jun 15, 2014)

MantidBro said:


> im sorry about how things went, i think it was the right choice to freeze him rather than let him starve and suffer. its never fun to do it but sometimes its the right thing to do.


Thank you for the words. It's just something I need to get used to is all if I want to own them as "Domanating" said. I never experienced a pet ageing before so it really through me for a loop. But now that I know I'll be more prepared for the next one.


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## MantidBro (Jun 16, 2014)

FleshOdium said:


> Thank you for the words. It's just something I need to get used to is all if I want to own them as "Domanating" said. I never experienced a pet ageing before so it really through me for a loop. But now that I know I'll be more prepared for the next one.


youre welcomeyes there are a lot of deaths when it comes to owning mantids unfortunately. they just dont live long, even when perfectly healthy. its the hardest when youve got one thats a year old then dies. kent-lok, my phyllocrania paradoxa, lived 11 months. when she died it was pretty sad, id really gotten used to having her around. some mantids are aggressive and can be brats lol, kent-lok was such a doll, so innocent and gentle and sweet. always wanted to crawl on me, even when id take her outside, she wanted to be on me instead. she was the only mantid id owned who ever preferred me over a branch. i think she was so used to being on me that it was the only place she really felt comfortable. i mean if you think about it, it makes sense, every day for 11 months i held her, insects may not be as intelligent as mammals, but they get used to certain things.


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## FleshOdium (Jun 18, 2014)

MantidBro said:


> youre welcome
> 
> yes there are a lot of deaths when it comes to owning mantids unfortunately. they just dont live long, even when perfectly healthy. its the hardest when youve got one thats a year old then dies. kent-lok, my phyllocrania paradoxa, lived 11 months. when she died it was pretty sad, id really gotten used to having her around. some mantids are aggressive and can be brats lol, kent-lok was such a doll, so innocent and gentle and sweet. always wanted to crawl on me, even when id take her outside, she wanted to be on me instead. she was the only mantid id owned who ever preferred me over a branch. i think she was so used to being on me that it was the only place she really felt comfortable. i mean if you think about it, it makes sense, every day for 11 months i held her, insects may not be as intelligent as mammals, but they get used to certain things.


This is such a wonderful story. Really warms my heart. Thank you for sharing, and my condolences for your own loss.


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## MantidBro (Jun 24, 2014)

FleshOdium said:


> This is such a wonderful story. Really warms my heart. Thank you for sharing, and my condolences for your own loss.


thank you


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## [email protected] (Jun 25, 2014)

I live in AZ too! Phoenix! I know some good places in Tempe to get food. Also, I have some Iris Oratoria that I could give to you for free. I want them to have a good home. I am not willing to ship, but let me know I you are close to Phoenix and want a couple. I feel the same way you do. These bugs are so beautiful and it is devastating to watch them age. So, let me know if you are willing to try again.


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