# nymphs dying. Dry red substance left on lid of enclosure.



## Darth Mantis (May 28, 2018)

Two of the nymphs I have been raising from birth have died suddenly with no warning. I didn't see them doing anything odd or excreting anything but once I found them dead there was also this red substance that had dried on the top of the enclosure and I was wondering if anyone knew what it was or if it might tell why they died. They both died after the first molt so I thought maybe it was a mismolt thing but I dont know. They are to small for me too really tell if they mismolted. Anyone got any idea what maybe happened to them?


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## MantisGirl13 (May 28, 2018)

@Darth MantisCan you give a bit more info? What species are they? What instar? Can you post pictures?

- MantisGirl13


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## MantisGirl13 (May 28, 2018)

Also, what did you feed them last?

- MantisGirl13


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## Darth Mantis (May 28, 2018)

They were after the first molt so I guess second instar they are Chinese mantises  and they are eating fruit flys.


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## MantisGirl13 (May 28, 2018)

Ok. I am sorry that they died. Are they your only two? If not, I would get a new fruit fly culture ASAP, and check your current one for mold or fungus. The red substance suggests that whatever they last ate that was sick. 

- MantisGirl13


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## River Dane (May 28, 2018)

@Darth Mantis did the substance look similar to this?


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## Predatorhousepet (May 28, 2018)

Darth Mantis said:


> They both died after the first molt so I thought maybe it was a mismolt thing but I dont know. They are to small for me too really tell if they mismolted.


How long did they die after molting and did you see their discarded exoskeleton in a separate place from them? This was their first molt to L2?  Did they die at the exact same time?


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## Darth Mantis (May 31, 2018)

yeah it did look similar to that


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## Darth Mantis (May 31, 2018)

A third one has popped up with the red stuff on his lid but he has not died yet in fact he looks fine im going to try feeding him from the other culture and see what happens. The fly's im using seem fine they look clean and the culture is doing well but its worth a shot.


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## Darth Mantis (May 31, 2018)

Of the around 15 nymphs I have only two have died after having this problem and only three total have had the problem at all. but the problem keeping popping up randomly in different enclosures. So the food would make sense but its odd that they dont all have the problem.


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## Darth Mantis (May 31, 2018)

Could they have been over fed? and that made it throw up? my mom has been feeding them because ive been in Honduras and its hard to keep track of how much each eats so It would make sense if she or me accidentally gave them more than they needed. But im not sure if they would have killed them but it would explain why only a few have the problem.


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## River Dane (May 31, 2018)

My Spiny Flower mantis was sold to me at a bug fair along with a European mantis. Supposedly they’d been fed the same FF’s. The Spiny already had this substance in his habitat at the time I purchased him, and continued to produce it until the day he died. My European never produced this substance. Even under my care, they ate the same bugs. Sounds like you did the same, so I think we can rule out bad feeders (for now). 

My mantis also died very suddenly. I moved a new mantis into the same habitat he was in, and so far, the mantis has not started producing this substance, so I think we can also rule out some kind of contagious disease.

The Spiny only ate 3 times during the 8 days I had him, so it’s probably not overfeeding either.

how long did your mantids produce this substance before death?


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## MantisGirl13 (May 31, 2018)

I wonder if it is some kind of infection, or something like that?

- MantisGirl13


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## Darth Mantis (Jun 1, 2018)

Im not sure because when I looked at them and they where fine and the next time I looked at them they where dead and the substance was there so I would have to guess they didn't do it for very long before death. One that I found today had the substance on his lid but he hasn't died and he seems to be doing good and I haven't found anymore of the substance with him.


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## Darth Mantis (Jun 1, 2018)

Maybe it is some sort of infection but it has been popping up in unrelated cages so that makes me think that its may not be that and its only happened to three total.


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## MantisGirl13 (Jun 1, 2018)

Hmm, I wonder what else it could be? Try feeding your sick babies honey, BTW. It will help them fight off whatever they are fighting, and it will give them more energy. 

- MantisGirl13


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## Mantis Lady (Jun 1, 2018)

I hope the others get well again and not getting what the died ones had.


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## Darth Mantis (Jun 2, 2018)

The other one who had the substance in his cage died after several days of appearing to be completely fine


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## MantisGirl13 (Jun 2, 2018)

Hmm, like I said before, try honey next time. I hope we can get to the bottom of this!

- MantisGirl13


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## Bathory (Jun 3, 2018)

Mantids can throw up if they overeat but it shouldn't be bad enough to kill them. Keep in mind that many nymphs in the wild die, it's the reason why some species hatch so many nymphs from one ooth. Some of them just aren't healthy from the start and they tend to die during the earlier instars. Sorry for your loss, it always sucks when they die too early.


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## MantisGirl13 (Jun 4, 2018)

@Bathory It is true that most chinese nymphs don't survive their first few instars, but they don't usually die from an infection or sickness, just weakness. In this case,  I think something is wrong with his mantids.

- MantisGirl13


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## Darth Mantis (Jul 7, 2018)

Two more had the same problem as the others and I gave them both honey and water one of two died the next day and was acting very odd so I wasn't suprised by that. The other one ate the honey/water and the fly just fine and acted totally normal he threw up a little the next but after that he stopped and eating fine and I took him out of quarantine recently and he molted pretty soon after and now hes seems to be the most active of all the ones I have. So of all the 4 mantises that came down with this condition only one has survived but now he seems to be thriving and hes doing great. I decided to dissect the one who died (would not recommend doing that on a pet it was not fun but I thought for the other ones sake I should to see if i could learn anything useful to save the other sick one) and when I did his intestine where full of nothing but air which to me seems very not normal but idk insect anatomy that well. So from the autopsy it seems that when this happened it very important to make sure they get something in them to eat so they arent empty from throwing up. The one who died was not very willing to eat the honey water or fly's and the one who lived was very willing to eat which seems to have saved his life.


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 7, 2018)

The will to live tells a lot. Maybe the one that died had already given up.

Good one got better and is very active?


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 7, 2018)

Mantids have a digestive system that basically consists of a single tube going down the length of their body. If that was full of air then I'd say to watch your mantids when feeding to make sure they are actually eating. As stated before mantids can throw up from overeating but this isn't usually fatal, they will usually stop eating before they seriously damage themselves (...although I have heard of one case of an _S. aureus_ mantis eating itself to death by having way too much in one sitting.)

They also have a system of tubes throughout their abdomen called trachae that serves as it's respiratory system, these are supposed to be full of air, it's how they breathe.


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