# cold mantids



## skinnylegs (Apr 7, 2007)

witch species can survive the coldest temp?


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## yen_saw (Apr 7, 2007)

Mantis can handle brief freezing temperature but most perish in lengthy cold winter. Most tropical species stand no chance in cold weather, but I have seen species like Thesprotia Graminis (grass mantis) and Carolina mantis managed to handle a day or two near freezing weather here in Houston. I have also heard that Empusa Penata surviving trough the winter in France without food.


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## Rob Byatt (Apr 7, 2007)

yes Yen it is true, _E. pennata_ over winters as a nymph in the south of France and matures the following year.


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## Rick (Apr 7, 2007)

Thats very interesting. Wonder how they do it?


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## Rob Byatt (Apr 7, 2007)

Woolly jumpers ? :wink:


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## robo mantis (Apr 7, 2007)

> Woolly jumpers ? :wink:


 lol rob


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## Orin (Apr 7, 2007)

Isn't the south of France warmer than northern Florida?


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## Christian (Apr 7, 2007)

No. It can get rather cold there. The larvae undergo a diapause, in which food intake is minimized and the physiology slowed down. They can survive rather long like this. I try this species at moment and I initiated the diapause (short-day and low temp conditions) in November and stopped it yesterday. They were subadult most of the time.

Regards,

Christian


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## skinnylegs (Apr 8, 2007)

so do you think i could relese them in ireland and get them to survive?


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## Christian (Apr 8, 2007)

Not really. They may be adapted to moderately cold winters, but they are as well adapted to hot summers. _Empusa_ is a dweller of hot habitats and needs long and hot summers. Ireland may have a mild climate, but I do not think the summer there is hot enough.

Regards,

Christian


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## wuwu (Apr 8, 2007)

> Not really. They may be adapted to moderately cold winters, but they are as well adapted to hot summers. _Empusa_ is a dweller of hot habitats and needs long and hot summers. Ireland may have a mild climate, but I do not think the summer there is hot enough.Regards,
> 
> Christian


not only that, but you should NEVER release a non-native species into the ecosystem. the results could be disastrous.


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## Christian (Apr 8, 2007)

Hi.

Oh, I misunderstood the post. I thought of releasing your stock in the garden over the summer or something.

Wuwu is completely right, you should never introduce a species into a new region.

Christian


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## Horatio (Apr 8, 2007)

So, does this mean that the two species my sister and I have from Pennsylvania and Maryland should not be put in our backyards in Alberta and Ontario? Horatio.


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## Peekaboo (Apr 9, 2007)

> So, does this mean that the two species my sister and I have from Pennsylvania and Maryland should not be put in our backyards in Alberta and Ontario? Horatio.


Correct, do not release non-native species into a new region. You cannot predict the ecological impact it may have to the local ecology.


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## Orin (Apr 9, 2007)

> No. It can get rather cold there.


I looked up the temps in southern France on search engines and the temps *are *similar to Northern Florida, actually a little warmer than Northern Florida. Northern Florida can get below 0 celsius but the temps are normally above 11 C during the coldest month. Did you look up the temps? Southern France is cold compared to the tropics but extremely warm compared to where most of us live.


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## Christian (Apr 10, 2007)

> Northern Florida can get below 0 celsius but the temps are normally above 11 C during the coldest month.


Southern France ist usually colder. You should not look at the mininum and maximum temperatures, but rather at the average day and night temp per month. Is Southern France comparable to N Florida? Maybe. All in all the winter is harder in most parts of Southern France, though. It is of course warmer than in the temperate zone, otherwise _Empusa_ could not overwinter as a larva. But the winter winds in S France (called Mistral) may cool down the effective temp considerably. There is a similar wind in Florida, too, but, as far as I am aware, it is more short-term-like. The terminus "Southern France" as such is in fact hardly comparable, as the region comprises several climatical gradients. You can hardly compare it to any part of SE USA, as there are completely different climatic influences and different biogeographic histories. Most French species would survive in Florida (given other factors are sufficient), but not vice versa. I doubt _Gonatista_ to survive in France. Maybe in parts of Spain, but not in France.

Please keep into mind that this is a theoretical brainstorming - do not start this kind of experiments! :wink:

Regards,

Christian


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## Orin (Apr 10, 2007)

You misunderstand. I wasn't talking about where it could live. I was simply explaining that southern France is subtropical so it's not strange some mantids can overwinter as nymphs there (Pseudovates overwinter in AZ as nymphs which is a much harsher envrironment than S. France or N. Florida). The original subject is 'cold mantids' and S. France isnt' very cold. Gonatista nymphs overwinter as well and apparently can survive the very rare nights below freezing.


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## Christian (Apr 10, 2007)

Ah, ok.

Well, the species which go farthest north or south are _Mantis religiosa_ and _Empusa pennicornis_ in Eurasia (the first one introduced in N-America where it also has spread into the S and SE of Canada) and _Orthodera novaezealandiae_ on the S Island of New Zealand. All overwinter as oothecae at those latitudes. Overwintering as larva is only possible south and north, respectively, of the 10°C January isothermic line.

Greets,

Christian


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 11, 2007)

I have had low 40 an high 30's here in Ohio and my Chinese, Carolinas &amp; European seemed to have withstood it, the last ones I saw laying eggs were on ...hold on must look it up...Oh yeah on October 31 was my last entry. Snow flakes fell on the 12th the 18th 23 of October and 24th. So they can evidently take a couple of weeks of it. I know the Carolina or the European lay close to the ground, about 6" is the height I have found the eggs. So I am assuming the closeness to the ground and them hiding in the taller grass sheilds them from the worst of the weather. Hope this helps.


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