# Rhombodera basalis throwing up often?



## Renzi (Jul 9, 2020)

Hello, I have a 6th instar Rhombodera basalis (Malaysian Shield Mantis), and since it's 3rd instar it has been throwing up off and on, and it's pretty worrying. It started out eating fruit flies at instar 2 when i got it, and then house flies at instar 3, and it has been on primarily blue bottle flies since it's 4th instar. I have fed a few dubia roaches, crickets or a meal worm here and there when I was waiting on more flies to arrive, but flies have always been it's staple feeder. It had several flies from a new batch yesterday, and now shes throwing up again  

The consistency is dark brownish and watery with some little particles and smells awful. The other four mantises (2 ghosts, 1 banded flower and one orchid) that consume the same feeders have never had any issues, so i'm wondering if this is a thing with this specific species since it's my first time with one, or if this mantis is just unfortunately sickly. This must be the 5th time it's happened now since I've had her, so at this point I'm really asking for some advice if anyone has any, only reason I haven't asked sooner is because she's always just been fine the next day, but i'm just worried 5 times seems like too many, even more than once is probably too many. 

Her enclosure is sprayed semi daily and the room is relatively humid in general, between 50-60%. This room is around 77-79F regularly, is it possibly just too cold in here for proper digestion for her? Her enclosure is cleaned very regularly, I use paper towel substrate, and no new objects have been put in it recently.

Photo of enclosure shows the barf on the glass to the right as well as on the mesh at the top.

Thanks for reading


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## FabioFabiatic (Jul 9, 2020)

1. Make sure to keep her hydrated, that's a lot of liquids she's losing. 

2. Did she barf like this with other feeders, if with other feeders this happens then it is something wrong with her, if she digests the other feeders normally then it's probably just some strange reaction to the flies. If it is her then maybe try increasing the temperature, or maybe trying some raw honey just in case it's bacterial. Both are harmless and worth a try. 

I'm no expert so I don't really know what else to say, but good luck and hopefully the experts have a better idea of what this could be.


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## Renzi (Jul 9, 2020)

Thank you for your tips, I got some honey water in her so hopefully that helps with hydration and if it is some bacterial thing like you mentioned. She has barfed with fruit flies and crickets. I stopped feeding crickets and switched to dubias whenever I was temporarily out of flies when she was L5 because I was worried the crickets were causing it and she would finally accept them as food. It's the first time she has barfed from a blue bottle  

I'll look into heating options for her enclosure too. I don't think her temps are supposed to be too much higher than 80 based on what I have found, but there aren't very many care sheets on her specific species unfortunately so raising it a tiny bit may be worth a shot. 

Idk if it's notable but she also did somehow manage to get blue bottle's compound eyes stuck in her mandibles a few days ago, I had to help her remove them with tweezers.


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## Flanker (Jul 9, 2020)

I think one of my 3 R. basalis has started doing the same thing. A bunch of rust colored stains have been appearing on their lid mesh. It most recently started after the last couple times I gave them fruit flies. Thought it might have something to do with them since they’re also kinda reddish when squashed.


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## hysteresis (Jul 9, 2020)

Renzi said:


> Her enclosure is sprayed semi daily and the room is relatively humid in general, between 50-60%. This room is around 77-79F regularly, is it possibly just too cold in here for proper digestion for her?


Humidity at 50% - 60% is perfect. 77-79 is perfect for nymphs and adults. Hotter isn't good for shields. Stop the crickets altogether, feed more dubia, and see how it goes.

I'd love to see more pics, plus something for scaling size. This mantis doesn't look like 6th instar. Kinda looks subadult. See how the wingbud tips cross?


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## Renzi (Jul 9, 2020)

Flanker said:


> I think one of my 3 R. basalis has started doing the same thing. A bunch of rust colored stains have been appearing on their lid mesh. It most recently started after the last couple times I gave them fruit flies. Thought it might have something to do with them since they’re also kinda reddish when squashed.


Yeah mine threw up some fruit flies as well once when she was small.. I hope yours doesn't have the same continued issue


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## Renzi (Jul 9, 2020)

hysteresis said:


> Humidity at 50% - 60% is perfect. 77-79 is perfect for nymphs and adults. Hotter isn't good for shields. Stop the crickets altogether, feed more dubia, and see how it goes.
> 
> I'd love to see more pics, plus something for scaling size. This mantis doesn't look like 6th instar. Kinda looks subadult. See how the wingbud tips cross?


Good to know that hotter is not good for them thank you. That rules out temp and humidity errors I suppose. I have stopped crickets since her last instar and definitely will not feed them to her again. Will dubias be okay for a staple instead of flies for a bit in your opinion?

she might be older than I thought, if you have experience with the species you would know better than me since it's my first time with one. I could have received her older than the seller told me she was (they said 2nd instar). 

Here are some more pics, I tried to get multiple angles. Going to feed her a roach in a sec, she looks like she is starving  

Thanks so much for your advice, please let me know if you see something wrong with her from the photos, I really appreciate it.


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## hysteresis (Jul 9, 2020)

Renzi said:


> Will dubias be okay for a staple instead of flies for a bit in your opinion?


Dubia are the very best staple for a large mantis like Rhombodera sp.



Renzi said:


> she might be older than I thought


She looks presub - 8th instar.

Here was one of mine at subadult (9th) ... was fed dubia and superworms by then because it took too many blue bottles to fill them up.

( almost positive  )

These are 32oz cup and lid for scale.













Renzi said:


> ... please let me know if you see something wrong with her from the photos, I really appreciate it.


I think off hand, she needs to eat more. Looks thin but healthy!.


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## Renzi (Jul 9, 2020)

hysteresis said:


> Dubia are the very best staple for a large mantis like Rhombodera sp.


That is good to know, I've just been feeding a lot of blue bottles, the amount they seemed to fill her up was like if I were to eat a cracker every hour to fill up my stomach lol. I still have a lot to learn about mantis keeping, since I've only been at it for almost a year.



hysteresis said:


> She looks presub - 8th instar.﻿
> 
> Here was one of mine at subadult (9th) ... was fed dubia and superworms by then because it took too many blue bottles to fill them up.


Okay yeah your little dude looks like it's the same instar as mine, thank you for letting me know, I totally thought she still had several instars left haha!



hysteresis said:


> I think off hand, she needs to eat more. Looks thin but healthy!.


Yes she def needs to eat more, I think she barfed up everything she had in there yesterday, but it's most likely also due to the flies just not filling her up enough in general if dubias are a better staple.  I'm going to work on filling her up slowly over the next couple days, hoping she won't throw up again. I'm glad she looks healthy to you otherwise though, thank you


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