# D. Melanogaster VS D. Hydei



## Griever (Mar 16, 2009)

Which fruit fly would breeders reccomend for baby mantids, are Hydei too big or does it really matter? Is one easier to culture through generations than the other?


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## kamakiri (Mar 17, 2009)

Depends what species of mantis...


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## Griever (Mar 17, 2009)

Chinese, european, carolina :mellow:


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## PhilinYuma (Mar 17, 2009)

Griever said:


> Chinese, european, carolina :mellow:


D. melanogaster.


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## Rick (Mar 17, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> D. melanogaster.


I agree. The other ones always reproduced pretty slow too. For awhile I kept both. That way when they outgrow the small ones I can move up.


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## hibiscusmile (Mar 17, 2009)

Most Hydei are to big for newbies! Best to go with the Mels!


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## kamakiri (Mar 19, 2009)

Griever said:


> Which fruit fly would breeders reccomend for baby mantids, are Hydei too big or does it really matter? Is one easier to culture through generations than the other?


_Hydei_ are not too big for those species and will feed them through a later instar.

That aside, if you have no experience with _hydei_, then _melanogaster_ are way easier to start cultures.


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## Christian (Mar 19, 2009)

Both are good. _D. melanogaster_ is smaller and easier to breed, and their generation cycle is shorter. _D. hydei_ is larger and survives longer in the mantid enclosure, but requires a different culture medium for the maggots and takes much longer to complete the cycle. They are as productive as _melanogaster_, once you have some experience.

At moment, I even try another species, probably _D. funebris_. They are slightly larger than _hydei_ and fly well., These ones need still another culture medium. I am still trying to find out what is best for them, they are not as simple as the other ones. But should be a bummer for medium sized nymphs and small empusids.


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## PhilinYuma (Mar 19, 2009)

Christian said:


> Both are good. _D. melanogaster_ is smaller and easier to breed, and their generation cycle is shorter. _D. hydei_ is larger and survives longer in the mantid enclosure, but requires a different culture medium for the maggots and takes much longer to complete the cycle. They are as productive as _melanogaster_, once you have some experience.


I never heard of using different culture media for D. melanogaster and D. hydei. Can you share your secrets with us Christian? Have you ever tried D. virilis (great name!)?


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## Christian (Mar 19, 2009)

I don't know this species (_D. virilis_). Is it a North American one?

Concerning the culture media:

_D. melanogaster_ can be bred on almost everything, as most of you know. However, the larvae don't feed on the medium, but on the yeast becteria that decompose the saccharides. Yeast is a fungus, and fungal spores are everywhere, they quickly settle on every kind of rotting fruit.

_D. hydei_ needs other yeast bacteria species, so I use a mixture of oat flakes and vinegar, adding sometimes pieces of apple. If you use artificial fruit fly medium for _melanogaster_, you can use it for _hydei_ as well by adding vinegar. Some guys don't use vinegar and breed successfully as well, but in my opinion it works better with. In contrast to _melanogaster_, which tolerates rather viscous material, the medium has to be more liquid for _hydei_, otherwise they get stuck in.

The new species I try (it is a native one, caught from the outside), which due to its size should be _D. funebris_, needs a medium similar to that of _hydei_ except that you need beer instead of vinegar. At least this is was I was told. I don't have much experience with these ones yet, but they are promising. And, if my stock runs out I can get them in summer de novo. I tried it some time ago and melon parts proved best as bait (other baits attract mainly _melanogaster_), although my actual stock comes from another source. These one are not traded.


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## PhilinYuma (Mar 19, 2009)

Christian said:


> I don't know this species (_D. virilis_). Is it a North American one?Concerning the culture media:
> 
> _D. melanogaster_ can be bred on almost everything, as most of you know. However, the larvae don't feed on the medium, but on the yeast becteria that decompose the saccharides. Yeast is a fungus, and fungal spores are everywhere, they quickly settle on every kind of rotting fruit.
> 
> ...


In addition to our fruit fly sticky, this is the best discussion of fruit fly culturing that I have seen and supports and amplifies my own meager experience. I recently got a D. hydei culture in the mail, and about 200 of the flies had been trapped in the viscous medium in transit, so I shall start watering mine down. It is also most useful to know that our medium is only a culture for the bacteria for the bacterial fruit fly culture, a point that is usually missed.

D. virilis is primarily used in genome projects, I think, and is closely related to D. mojavensis which occurs, literally, in my back yard. De Paul University in Chicago uses (or used) it for rearing mantis nymphs and it is available from both the San Diego and Tucson stock centers, but I would think that obtaining it would not serve any practical purpose for you.

I was familiar with D. funebris as a kid in England, but I understand that it has been introduced, probably accidentally,into the U.S. and deliberately (for research) in New Zealand. If you run out of melons, try fungi, they love 'em!

Addendum:

Inspired by this thread and a couple of hundred Giant Asian nymphs, I went to make up some pots of ff cultures. I use the same Carolina Biological Supply source that Rick and a few others use, and as usual, saw the yeast warning on the bag. I've read posts on this forum about folks who proof their yeast or put it in by the spoonful (bigger is better, right?  ). That is not just unnecessary, it can kill your flies. Activated yeast gives off carbon dioxide (it makes bread rise) which is heavier than air. It will fill the lower part of the pot and suffocate the flies if you use too much yeast.

O.K. I've done my good deed, so back to work.


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