# 1st attempt at FF culture



## Mvalenz (Jan 26, 2012)

I had a FF culture that I placed on my dresser about three weeks ago. When I placed on there it had nothing in it. I thought it was done for. But when I recently looked at it it had a ton of FF in it. Those little guys can get expensive and I plan on making a purchase soon, so I decided to try my hand at making a FF culture. I was going to use MikhailsDinos recipe because I had access to most of the ingredients. 

I had to substitute some of the ingredients though:

Masa was already mixed and in the fridge. My mom said she had some. When I got there it was already mixed with salt, flour and water and was in a soggy clump. She just made tortillas.

Instead of apple sauce I used squished banana.

Instead of vinegar I used honey.

Instead of yeast I used bread.

I guess I didn't have access to any of the ingredients after all.

I will let you guys know how it goes.






 I put more FF in it than you can see. They are all hiding in the coffee filters


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## patrickfraser (Jan 26, 2012)

Good luck and may your culture bloom like the fields in Spring.


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## Chivalry (Jan 26, 2012)

I just did my first ones too, only I used the potato flake method. Fingers crossed for both of us!


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## Mvalenz (Jan 27, 2012)

Nice. Let me know how it works out. I'm also crossing toes for both of us.


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## Bryce08 (Jan 27, 2012)

Chivalry said:


> I just did my first ones too, only I used the potato flake method. Fingers crossed for both of us!


should work fine...flakes, vinager and apple sauce...works for me


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## PhilinYuma (Jan 27, 2012)

Mvalenz: Those substitutions will get you every time!

Vinegar doesn't really do anything -- it's useless as a mold inhibitor and does little to stimulate egg laying, especially since you had a rotting banana in there. Honey, though, unless well mixed in, where it will do neither harm nor good, will trap and kill the FFs in all likelihood.

Humans eat bread; FFs eat yeast and other microorganisms, so it is essential. If you are lucky, though, yeast and other microorganisms in the air will grow on the medium.

There is an old joke among the editors of _Cook's Illustrated _in the form of a letter from a dissatisfied reader:

"Dear Sir: I am just writing to tell you that your recipe for [whatever] is a total failure. I followed the recipe exactly except that i had to make the following substitutions...."


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## Mvalenz (Jan 27, 2012)

Thats a funny letter. Sounds like my post. LOL.

There is yeast in the air? Didn't know that. I will most likely just buy the kit online in the end.


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## Chivalry (Jan 27, 2012)

xxFaultxx said:


> should work fine...flakes, vinager and apple sauce...works for me


Heh, the recipe I'd found didn't call for applesauce but I added it at sort of random. Stuff seems to be happening.


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 27, 2012)

My flies Phil, insist on vinegar! I use calcium proportionate, or however u spell it, but they dont' care, they want the vinegar, so I give it to them and I find it really does help hold off mold, when I forget it, I get some mold. Also I don't know about the bread, but guess it cant hurt, I made cultures monday and the bloody flies that were in the used containers hatched again, it is distressing as I can't keep up with that many fruit flies and I hate to see them die, but die they must. I made a new potion of mashed taters and oats and I must of made 50 hydei cultures and there were so many flies in just one container I could of made prob a dozen decent cultures from it, and today when I looked at the ones I used to make them with they were overrun, I just don't know what I do wrong..................................... :taz:


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 27, 2012)

OH! on top of that, I had fuzzy today! he has learned how to shake his head from side to side and it makes him dizzy! what a baby! I made meatload, taters, brocolli and califlower w/cheese sauce, french bread, and a pineapple nut upside down cake w/cream cheese frosting, but did not get to make butter, but bread was good nonethe less!


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## Mvalenz (Jan 27, 2012)

Wow! Sounds like a great meal. Fuzzy is your grandbaby, right? My grandma never cooked for me like that. She just stole my piggy bank money for beer and told me the tooth fairy needed her money back for some bad teeth she got from me. Then the teeth she gave back to me weren't even mine. I think they were from her old dentures. Just kidding. She was great. Fuzzy is very lucky.

After reading the whole MikhailsDinos thread in its entirety, and it was long, I have decided to just use orins recipe. It sounds simple. And why fix something that isn’t broke? I will not be surprised if my current culture does nothing but make my room smell like banana bread. Tomorrow I'm going shopping for ingredients. But out of curiosity what are you using for media?


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 27, 2012)

me? I use potatoes, oats, yeast, brewers yeast, vinegar, water, cal pro (mold inhibtor), real fruit or juice when I have it and powered sugar and thats about it I think, so automatic, if I made one, I made thousands :[.

yea, fuzzy cant eat all that, I made for gramdpa and self and to send some home with fuzzys parents, they both work, so I try to send food when they come, long week for new parents. ps I did make him some smashed peas and gave him yogurt and juice, he is so sweet, I love how they open their mouth for another bite, can't feed theirselves, but their little beaks open right up! :kiss:


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## Mvalenz (Jan 27, 2012)

That mental picture made me smile.

You use regular yeast and brewers yeast? And where do you find Cal Pro?


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## PhilinYuma (Jan 27, 2012)

hibiscusmile said:


> My flies Phil, insist on vinegar! I use calcium proportionate, or however u spell it, but they dont' care, they want the vinegar, so I give it to them and I find it really does help hold off mold, when I forget it, I get some mold. Also I don't know about the bread, but guess it cant hurt, I made cultures monday and the bloody flies that were in the used containers hatched again, it is distressing as I can't keep up with that many fruit flies and I hate to see them die, but die they must. I made a new potion of mashed taters and oats and I must of made 50 hydei cultures and there were so many flies in just one container I could of made prob a dozen decent cultures from it, and today when I looked at the ones I used to make them with they were overrun, I just don't know what I do wrong..................................... :taz:


I wouldn't think of debating the merits or demerits of vinegar with such an experienced young woman as yourself, Rebecca! I did spend some time in a university FF lab (a paid worker making less than the janitor!) and nobody even thought of using vinegar and y more than they do in contemporary FF labs, but if it aint broken, don't fix it!


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## Chivalry (Jan 28, 2012)

hibiscusmile said:


> me? I use potatoes, oats, yeast, brewers yeast, vinegar, water, cal pro (mold inhibtor), real fruit or juice when I have it and powered sugar and thats about it I think, so automatic, if I made one, I made thousands :[.
> 
> yea, fuzzy cant eat all that, I made for gramdpa and self and to send some home with fuzzys parents, they both work, so I try to send food when they come, long week for new parents. ps I did make him some smashed peas and gave him yogurt and juice, he is so sweet, I love how they open their mouth for another bite, can't feed theirselves, but their little beaks open right up! :kiss:


I taught my son when he was little to open up when I asked what's in his mouth, in case he ever was choking on something... But it made for good entertainment when he was eating un-smashed peas and they all started to roll out. Off topic but a good memory.

Maybe you need more mantids to take care of all those flies, Rebecca


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 28, 2012)

That's a good saying Phil! but my son has a better one,..... I cant fix it , it's broke :donatello: 

yea, more mantis, thats the answer!

peas rolling out, I can see it now!


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## Mvalenz (Jan 28, 2012)

UPDATE:

Nothin yet. My room smells like a banana bread factory though. Yummy


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## Psychobunny (Feb 3, 2012)

I'm lazy, so I just buy this stuff;

http://www.store.repashy.com/superfly-32-oz-bag-two-pounds.html

It's cheap, has everything already in it. Just add hot water and stir.

It smells good too


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## Mvalenz (Feb 3, 2012)

Definitely looking for something like that. Thanks. I made a culture with the potato flakes, applesauce, yeast, and vinegar. After about a week it is full of mold. Flies are still alive though. My first "Banana" culture is doing better with the mold. Flies are still alive in "Banana" culture as well. No sight of maggots.


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## patrickfraser (Feb 4, 2012)

Here is a culture I started on Jan 19. So this is the 2 week mark. Doing well and starting to pupate.


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## Mvalenz (Feb 6, 2012)

Those look great. What do you use and how many flies do you put in each culture to start out with?


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## patrickfraser (Feb 6, 2012)

Super simple. 

1/4 cup instant potatoes, 1/4 cup HOT water, 1/4 cup vinegar, 1 Tablespoon powdered sugar, 1 Tablespoon brewer's yeast "plus" from health food store (it has added "healthy" stuff). 

Combine dry ingredients well and add the hot water and vinegar (I just heat them both together in the microwave). Mix well and tap media down on the counter. Let it stand to cool and absorb the liquid. When it cools down to "warm" just a pinch of active yeast on the top and add excelsior. When completely cool add fruit flies and wait. I have never counted how many flies I put in the new culture, but just not too many. I think it is recommended 40-50. Also I have heard you get better results if using the flies from the first "bloom", as the females will mature faster and be more plentiful to add to the new culture. This is what works for me and I have only purchased fruit flies 2 times in one year. The only reason I bought another culture was because I slacked off in my making of new cultures and needed a bump for new nymphs. Just don't let yourself run out and you're good. In my opinion, it's better to have too many ff than not enough. If you find you have too many ff to feed off, make an emergency culture or 2 with the excess flies. You might end up needing them if a culture crashes unexpectedly which can and does happen occasionally.


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## Mvalenz (Feb 6, 2012)

My potato culture is full of mold. According to your recipe I didn't add enough vinegar. And I only placed about 8-10 FF in each. I just ordered some new cultures that should be loaded with FF, so I am going to start from scratch again with your recipe and more FF. Hopefully my new mantids will outgrow them soon. Two already molted since they arrived.


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## patrickfraser (Feb 6, 2012)

Good luck.


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## itzjustjeff (Feb 6, 2012)

patrickfraser said:


> Super simple.
> 
> 1/4 cup instant potatoes, 1/4 cup HOT water, 1/4 cup vinegar, 1 Tablespoon powdered sugar, 1 Tablespoon brewer's yeast "plus" from health food store (it has added "healthy" stuff).
> 
> Combine dry ingredients well and add the hot water and vinegar (I just heat them both together in the microwave). Mix well and tap media down on the counter. Let it stand to cool and absorb the liquid. When it cools down to "warm" just a pinch of active yeast on the top and add excelsior. When completely cool add fruit flies and wait. I have never counted how many flies I put in the new culture, but just not too many. I think it is recommended 40-50. Also I have heard you get better results if using the flies from the first "bloom", as the females will mature faster and be more plentiful to add to the new culture. This is what works for me and I have only purchased fruit flies 2 times in one year. The only reason I bought another culture was because I slacked off in my making of new cultures and needed a bump for new nymphs. Just don't let yourself run out and you're good. In my opinion, it's better to have too many ff than not enough. If you find you have too many ff to feed off, make an emergency culture or 2 with the excess flies. You might end up needing them if a culture crashes unexpectedly which can and does happen occasionally.


Good to know. Thanks for the warning; maybe I should start another as a precaution


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## Mvalenz (Feb 12, 2012)

Had to feed the remaining D. Hydeis from my first banana culture to my mantis. My potato culture is still filled with mold but there are some huge maggots in it and only one FF still alive. Does anyone know if i should scrape the mold off of the top or leave it for maggots to eat? it's about a quarter inch of mold covering most of the top of the media.


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## patrickfraser (Feb 12, 2012)

I'd say just leave the mold. You may do more disruption to the culture trying to remove it. If you see maggots, it's a good thing and I would let it sit and see how it goes.


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## Mvalenz (Feb 19, 2012)

I left the mold in my potato culture and I think the maggots ate most of it. I noticed today that there were about 30 D. Hydeis in it. These guys are BIG. I mean they are 1.5 times the size of any FF I purchased in the store or online. Not sure if it was the steady diet of mold or what, but the mold definitely did not hurt it. So why is mold so bad? Obviously the maggots like to eat it.

So from start to finish it took about a month to see any FF. I started with about 8-10 FF. Is this how long it takes usually?

And I can see the lone FF that stayed alive through all of this. I can tell which one it is because it is so much smaller than the other ones. Didn’t know these guys lived that long.


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## ZenViouS (Feb 20, 2012)

Not all mold is bad. I havn't had any bad mold in any of my cultures (mostly because I use a commercial brand  ) but I have seen tons of different "good" molds... with different colors too!

How long it takes all depends on what temp you kept them at and how old the FFs were that you used to start it. I think the young of older flies take longer to mature.


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## Mvalenz (Feb 23, 2012)

patrickfraser said:


> Super simple.
> 
> 1/4 cup instant potatoes, 1/4 cup HOT water, 1/4 cup vinegar, 1 Tablespoon powdered sugar, 1 Tablespoon brewer's yeast "plus" from health food store (it has added "healthy" stuff).
> 
> Combine dry ingredients well and add the hot water and vinegar (I just heat them both together in the microwave). Mix well and tap media down on the counter. Let it stand to cool and absorb the liquid. When it cools down to "warm" just a pinch of active yeast on the top and add excelsior. When completely cool add fruit flies and wait. I have never counted how many flies I put in the new culture, but just not too many. I think it is recommended 40-50. Also I have heard you get better results if using the flies from the first "bloom", as the females will mature faster and be more plentiful to add to the new culture. This is what works for me and I have only purchased fruit flies 2 times in one year. The only reason I bought another culture was because I slacked off in my making of new cultures and needed a bump for new nymphs. Just don't let yourself run out and you're good. In my opinion, it's better to have too many ff than not enough. If you find you have too many ff to feed off, make an emergency culture or 2 with the excess flies. You might end up needing them if a culture crashes unexpectedly which can and does happen occasionally.


Can i use regular sugar instead of the powdered variety?


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## patrickfraser (Feb 23, 2012)

I just powder my own using a spice/coffee grinder. I don't know if there is a difference, but this is the recipe I found when I started and have never strayed, as it works fine.


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## Mvalenz (Mar 28, 2012)

Just wanted to update you on my cultures. Patrickfraser, great recipe. I noticed that there was no mold in this culture at all. right amount of vinegar. Another thing i notice is that my FFs are much smaller. The culture bloomed like crazy. However, the FFs were much smaller. Not sure if is because it is a later generation? I have a ton of FFs though. I am going to make two cultures with it. One with less vinegar. I want to creat some mold in it for the maggots to feed on and see if they grow larger. I'll keep you guys updated.


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## patrickfraser (Mar 28, 2012)

I recently ran out of vinegar and ended up making one culture out of 3 without vinegar. That thing got very moldy and very quick. The culture was doing ok, but the mold took over and crashed it. I will not be doing that again. Also, for no apparent reason(obviously _something_) one group of 4 cultures never even produced maggots. Just kind of dried up. It was very strange, as I made them just the same as always. :huh: The cultures made before,after, and ever since have been fine. I have noticed, also, the size of the ff differing. I believe it has to do with the how many there are in there. In a slow producing culture with fewer flies they have more to eat and develop fully(and FAT). Whereas in a swarming culture the food is not as readily available and they may pupate earlier due to lack of food and the adults are competing for food, as well. You either get fewer and fatter or more and smaller.


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## Mvalenz (Mar 28, 2012)

Yes. I was afraid that that was the ratio. More smaller vs less fatter. I want to produce a ton of fatties. I will add a little vinegar to the other one as to not overwhelm the culture with mold. Maybe just enough mold to feed em. I'll let you all know how it goes. Otherwise, your recipe worked very well, Patrickfraser. My culture produced a ton of FFs; more than enough to sustain a colony of young mantids.


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## petoly (Apr 14, 2012)

I figured i would post how i do my cultures for people that need it on a much smaller scale as to not waste as many flies or if you just have 2 or 3 nymphs. I just use washed out medicine bottles, size of the container will help define how many ffs u will get. In these containers i just smoosh a bit of banana and throw in a couple of drops of vinegar, as a growing surface throw in a strip of unprinted cardboard and the flies ( usually between 5 and 15 depending on container size). Sure production may not be as big as the setups mentioned in this thread, but its sufficent enough for me, you just have to make more cultures more frequently, but its easy enough since its just banana. I definitely get plenty of ffs for 4 nymphs. I have been going steady this way for 6 months now without having to buy a new culture. This works for hidey and melanogaster


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## MantidLord (Apr 19, 2012)

I started two cultures of my own using very cheap ingredients (I call it the college man's culture). Banana, vinegar, and applesauce. And for the first culture, a little bit of apple. I dumped maybe 20 mels in this culture and so far in less than a week, I'm seeing maggots of good size eating away at the stuff. I make sure to put napkins and tissue in the culture to soak up a lot of the liquid and make it to where the ffs don't drown, and so far so good. I've always used vinegar for my homemade cultures and have never had a problem with mold. So either the vinegar works, or something else is keeping me from getting mold. I used to add oatmeal flakes and baby cereal (I knew I was forgetting something last week when I made the cultures) into my cultures, but since the cultures appear to be doing well, I guess yeast is forming on its on.


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## Mvalenz (Apr 19, 2012)

Mantidlord, did they let you keep mantids in college. I'm back in school and was wondering if I can take my guys with me when I transfer?

I should probably update you guys on my cultures. The mold culture grew a lot of mold. The flies all died before they could reproduce. The cultures I added vinegar to had no mold at all and did fine. FF are still small, maybe smaller because I noticed some of them got through the screen and running out of the enclosure after feeding time. Another strange thing is I noticed some flying around the room after feeding. Not sure if it was a wild one or not. There was a bin of old beer cans close by. My friend said you can breed the flightless out of them after a few cultures. Has anyone heard of or experienced this?


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## MantidLord (Apr 19, 2012)

Hey,

I live in a program house that allows pets, I didn't choose to live there for the mantids though, but for my tarantula. Honestly my college is pretty lax on pets, and thank goodness most people see mantids as merely bugs rather than "pets" so next year I'll be able to get away with it since I have a cool roommate and the mantids don't take up much space. I don't know how it would be if i had exotic species that require large net cages, humdifiers, heating lights, etc. probably be a lot less conspicuous.

Another thing you may be able to look into, depending on your major, is get together with a professor or researcher or something and get a corner of a room (not even a lab room) to yourself and your bugs. That way you can keep them there and not worry about school policy. Obviously you can't check up on them as much but they'd be fairly safe until break.


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## Mvalenz (Apr 19, 2012)

I didn't realize you were so young mantidlord. That's cool that you like all the classic grung toons that I see on the "music behind the username" thread. If I transfer to florida I will most likely get my own place. Southern Illinois I will live on campus. In that case I will definitely get in touch with the entomology department. Never thought of that. Thanks.


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