# Empusa pennata Mating Attempt #1



## glock34girl (May 23, 2013)

5/22/2013
Empusa Pennata mating Attempt #1
Female: nine days since adult molt. Final molt slight mismolt causing "puffy wings".
Male: seven days since adult molt.

*Female has been fed to the point of refusing food prior to introduction.

* Male kept under heat lamp for 90minutes prior to mating attempt.

*Male and female were housed side by side since attaining the species. Approx 2 weeks.

No aggressiveness noted from the female. Male quickly mounted within five minutes.


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## sally (May 23, 2013)

I guess he liked her pretty puffy wings


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## Paradoxica (May 23, 2013)

Is this species really ready to mate after only a few days?! and I thought my M. Binotatas were fast after 10 days.


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## glock34girl (May 23, 2013)

I have been reading some of the Spanish material printed on them and they appear to be ready to mate a week after molting. She was calling and he took the mount. Only time will tell I suppose.


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## Mime454 (May 23, 2013)

Did he connect?


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## Mime454 (May 23, 2013)

Paradoxica said:


> Is this species really ready to mate after only a few days?! and I thought my M. Binotatas were fast after 10 days.


The guy who had them here says that they are ready and lay their ooths really quickly.

Glock, that male is a beautiful mantis. Love the antennae.


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## glock34girl (May 23, 2013)

Not just yet. He's trying but her puffy wings are in the way. I think Iam going to wait until they seperate and remove him and then brainstorm what to do with these wings.


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## glock34girl (May 23, 2013)

Yeah his antennae are amazing! He reminds me of a cartoon character from a distance lol


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## Mime454 (May 23, 2013)

I'm hoping that my female will molt tonight or tomorrow.


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## agent A (May 23, 2013)

maybe a small paper clip to hold the wings together??


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## glock34girl (May 23, 2013)

He's still on her this morning lol persistent little dude.


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## glock34girl (May 23, 2013)

Successful dismount. Smart boy took cover. I have separated him into a different room with my other males. She is eating. Try again next week.


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## aychen222 (May 23, 2013)

It's like she is wearing a dress. A pretty dress for a ball.


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## glock34girl (May 23, 2013)

Hey just FYI I edited the ages of the mantids. The male is actually at seven days and the female is at nine.

@aychen222 it does look like a dress, doesn't it? lol


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## Danny. (May 25, 2013)

GG- Any updates?


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## glock34girl (May 25, 2013)

Not really. Female and male are seperated in different rooms. Male isn't a big eater like he was as a sub. Female eats to her hearts content. Lol I will do another attempt on Wed.


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## glock34girl (May 26, 2013)

Two oothecas have been laid! I have no idea as to fertility, or how Iam gonna get them off the vermiculite but we have two!!!!! They are small!


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## Mime454 (May 26, 2013)

2 ooths in one day?


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## glock34girl (May 26, 2013)

That is what it seems. It's possible I missed them yesterday since they blend pretty well. They looked hardened already. I guess we will see if they are fertile in about a month.


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## Mime454 (May 26, 2013)

Crazy.


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## Danny. (May 26, 2013)

glock34girl said:


> That is what it seems. It's possible I missed them yesterday since they blend pretty well. They looked hardened already. I guess we will see if they are fertile in about a month.


A month? I read it only takes two weeks to hatch.


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## glock34girl (May 26, 2013)

Really? I was reading a month. I thought Yens journal said two weeks too. So, I guess we will know in two-four weeks lol


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## Danny. (May 27, 2013)

glock34girl said:


> Really? I was reading a month. I thought Yens journal said two weeks too. So, I guess we will know in two-four weeks lol


Yup two weeks...


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## glock34girl (May 28, 2013)

Woke up to her having finished a third ooth! This is nuts!


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## Mime454 (May 28, 2013)

Really crazy.


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## glock34girl (May 28, 2013)

Iam wondering if I should reintroduce today instead if waiting tomorrow for the full week.


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## Mime454 (May 28, 2013)

I would mate as soon as possible given all the infertile ooths she's laying.


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## glock34girl (May 28, 2013)

Haha don't be cursin my ooths with infertility!


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## brancsikia339 (May 28, 2013)

Empusa lay ooths crazy fast for some reason


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## mantid_mike (May 28, 2013)

Is it possible that they connected while you slept? I hope those ooths are fertile.


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## glock34girl (May 28, 2013)

mantid_mike said:


> Is it possible that they connected while you slept? I hope those ooths are fertile.


It's what Iam hoping but Iam not getting my hope too far up, her wings made it tough for him. Lol


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## aNisip (May 28, 2013)

Yens info on fasciata covers a lot of the events that occur in the mating and laying and hatching regions for this sp...like mate after five days lay an ooth the next and it hatched after a two weeks or something...

↓

http://www.usamantis.com/Efasciata_log.html


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## glock34girl (May 28, 2013)

Yeah! Thanks! I found that and have been reading up on it. Basically keeping fingers, toes and eyes crossed they are fertile.

@andrew any thoughts in how to remove from vermeculite? Lol


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## agent A (May 29, 2013)

glock34girl said:


> Yeah! Thanks! I found that and have been reading up on it. Basically keeping fingers, toes and eyes crossed they are fertile.
> 
> @andrew any thoughts in how to remove from vermeculite? Lol


i personally would use a brush and brush it away from the bottom of the ooth


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## glock34girl (May 29, 2013)

agent A said:


> i personally would use a brush and brush it away from the bottom of the ooth


The vermeculite is pressed into silicone to hold the screen kit in place within the aquarium.


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## aNisip (May 29, 2013)

Mist it with warm water and from the flat part of it (it looks like a triangle, so the flat part would be the base (or the flat side where she began laying it)) gently see if it will pop off... (don't be afraid to soak it with the warm water spray)...


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## aNisip (May 29, 2013)

Also, you can snip the tips of her wings that are near her abdomen if next time you try mating and he doesn't connect....but I wouldn't wait a full week, put her in the enclosure with all the adult males and let them mount (how many ever want to) and it'll increase your chances of a successful connection...


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## ladygigi (May 29, 2013)

Even though she has laid 3 oothecae, you're going to mate her again? :blink: That isn't gonna be like really hard on her? I mean, doesn't it take a lot out of them to lay ooths?  Gotta remember, I'm a newbie around here and I don't really know anything, so I might ask some really stupid questions, but that's like the only way I'm gonna learn and find out. :smarty:


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## glock34girl (May 29, 2013)

AndrewNisip said:


> Also, you can snip the tips of her wings that are near her abdomen if next time you try mating and he doesn't connect....but I wouldn't wait a full week, put her in the enclosure with all the adult males and let them mount (how many ever want to) and it'll increase your chances of a successful connection...


Thanks Andrew! I don't know if I am gonna remove it or just is it as the hatching container. Lol also, regarding clipping, if read somewhere that if you snip the wings you run the chance of them loosing in their hemoglobin. Do you snip yours?


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## aNisip (May 29, 2013)

I have never snipped the wings of mantids, but I wouldn't cut the whole wing off...just the tip/part in the way...from the pictures...it looks like the bottom 1/3 of her wing curls under and sorta blocks her abdomen...maybe just cut that part off? And she might lose some but not a whole lot...if u try mating again aand he still has problems, then see if u can get in there and move her wings and let him connect...or you can snip the wings in the way when she's alone and cool her down so she looses the least amount of hemolymph...


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## glock34girl (May 30, 2013)

Ah! Cool beans! Thanks!


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## Paradoxica (May 30, 2013)

You don't necessarily have to remove the ooth. You could build an incubator around it. I made this one out of a styrofoam cup...


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## aNisip (May 30, 2013)

Paradoxica said:


> You don't necessarily have to remove the ooth. You could build an incubator around it. I made this one out of a styrofoam cup...


This was some ingenious thinking back when I first saw it in your Crypic thread....BarretaKhar, you could do this for the ooths

But bc of the placement of some of the ooths it might be difficult to put a cup around it...


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## glock34girl (Jun 2, 2013)

Well we are at five ooths and three breeding attempts and today was bad news. I keep the breeder enclosures in the front room since I spend most of my time there and can watch them. I heard a ruckus from the enclosure, went to see what going on and found my male seemingly stuck between the screen and spline. He'd somehow wedged one side of himself there and was struggling to free himself. Before I could help him he sort of kicked out and ripped both right legs off just below the knee. He totally went mafia on himself. He gets around okay but is a bit clumsy and adjusting to his new strut... If you want to call it that. I have been leaving them together since Tuesday night and the female is fine with him. I separated them today as the female was restless and wanted to lay an ooth and apparently this guy was all don't leave me or I'll rip my legs off.

So five ooths, lots of mounts but still never actually witnessing a connection or results such as an "open female" or sperm sac. ( I always forget the proper term).

Henry, Danny, tony: any success?


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## glock34girl (Jun 3, 2013)

Well, it seems my male is in a bad way. The two injured legs had made him terribly clumsy such that he wasn't hanging well. He would seem to get tired and just fall. He seems to have broken a raptorial on the same side so he essentially only has his left side. He is of course not interested in breeding at all and I don't blame him. I placed him in a smaller enclosure with some softer substrate and he seems to just go nuts and is restless. Hate to say it but this may be the end of the road for this guy. :-( its a very very delicate species indeed. Despite as many precautions as possible he seemed to find a way to injure himself and then just get worse. Will see how he's doing tomorrow. Any ideas? I think his breeding is over since he won't be able to hold onto her. But, if he can be made comfortable I'm up for ideas. Not a fan of the freezer but not a fan of seeing something suffer, either.


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## ScienceGirl (Jun 4, 2013)

She looks like she's wearing a tutu!


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## aNisip (Jun 4, 2013)

If you have the patience and willingness...try pairing them up and hold her on her back...wait till he connects and then gently/loosely wrap a bread tie around him to her and then leave them be...but if he is on his way out in the next few days...you could decapitate him and his abdomen might begin "searching" for a female...I have done this with a male tenodera and male popa spurca....its up to you...

All the best and hope he recovers,

Andrew


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## glock34girl (Jun 5, 2013)

Well, the poor guy is no longer. :-(


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## Reptiliatus (Jun 5, 2013)

Sorry to hear that... I hope your ooths are fertile  .


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## glock34girl (Jun 5, 2013)

Me too. She had a 6th one this morning. So either gonna have a lot of nymphs OR a lot of ooths available for pinning lol


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## aNisip (Jun 5, 2013)

Sad face  ....I hope they're all fertile...I guess you'll kno in a couple of days...


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## glock34girl (Jun 5, 2013)

Yeah. We've all been looking at Yen's journals, I think to determine when they are supposed to hatch. Some of the literature in Spanish says they hatch "in summer" or "fall" but not a duration, at least that I didn't see. So, yen's log on his fassicata have been right this far. If they are, nymphs should be here this weekend but Iam not too sure.


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## ScienceGirl (Jun 7, 2013)

Where did you find Yen's journal?


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## glock34girl (Jun 8, 2013)

@science girl.... USAmantis.com I think it was.

For the rest of ya's.... Ladies and gentleman, I present to you.... Empusa Pennata L1!


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## gripen (Jun 8, 2013)

Now the tank is self feeding  

Be sure not to sell to many of these. You should keep some for yourself to guarantee the next generation!


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## glock34girl (Jun 8, 2013)

gripen said:


> Now the tank is self feeding
> 
> Be sure not to sell to many of these. You should keep some for yourself to guarantee the next generation!


Haha! I took the lady out. She looks to be at the end of her life span. Very sweet personality. Yeah, I have to keep these guys so we can start a strong foundation of them. You guys will all enjoy them when I am able to sell but there is still a lot to figure out and document so they stay strong in culture!


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## gripen (Jun 8, 2013)

You might want to diapause this generation if it is true there is two gens a season. The adults may last longer if you do that.


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## glock34girl (Jun 8, 2013)

Yeah Iam researching the ins and outs of that.


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## ScienceGirl (Jun 9, 2013)

Very cool!


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## glock34girl (Jun 10, 2013)

Murdering D. Hydei.... Sorry for bad surveillance picture. Budget cuts.


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## Danny. (Jun 10, 2013)

Hahaha... Think they can take down bigger flies?


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## glock34girl (Jun 10, 2013)

Probably but I wanted to make sure they weren't overwhelmed and scared of the prey.


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## glock34girl (Jun 10, 2013)

¡Número seis compadres!

I initially thought she was on her way out and she laid the biggest one yet.


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## agent A (Jun 11, 2013)

Yay!!!


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## Danny. (Jun 25, 2013)

GG: First ooth hatched yesterday. 23 total none stuck. Male was eaten 6-26-13


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## Paradoxica (Jun 25, 2013)

Danny. said:


> GG: First ooth hatched yesterday. 22 total with both parents still alive.


Wow, good work.

It looks like these guys have a really good shot at becoming common in culture


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## glock34girl (Jun 25, 2013)

Paradoxica said:


> Wow, good work.
> 
> It looks like these guys have a really good shot at becoming common in culture


They cannabalize like crazy. Essentially, I lost a hatch and a half over night and then ooth 6-8 had extremely low numbers, like 08 per. Lol I already have an l3 so I guess if diapause is at L4 I better thing fast since its 107 here.


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## gripen (Jun 25, 2013)

glock34girl said:


> They cannabalize like crazy. Essentially, I lost a hatch and a half over night and then ooth 6-8 had extremely low numbers, like 08 per. Lol I already have an l3 so I guess if diapause is at L4 I better thing fast since its 107 here.


Diapuase is at sub or presub not L4!


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## Danny. (Jun 25, 2013)

Paradoxica said:


> Wow, good work.
> 
> It looks like these guys have a really good shot at becoming common in culture


That's the plan. One ooth down, five more to go.


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## glock34girl (Jun 25, 2013)

gripen said:


> Diapuase is at sub or presub not L4!


Hey Gripen:

Can you show me where you got your info please? Thanks!


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## gripen (Jun 25, 2013)

Third post in the thread. http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=14921&amp;hl=%2Bempusa+%2Bpennata


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## glock34girl (Jun 26, 2013)

Awesome! Thanks Gripen.


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## Danny. (Jun 28, 2013)

GG: Sorry to hijack your thread! Haha

Update: Second ooth hatched today. 21 total one stuck.


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## glock34girl (Jun 28, 2013)

Hijack away, you'll find Iam not an overly sensitive person that cares about stuff like that. At this point you can have my nymphs.


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## Danny. (Jul 1, 2013)

Update: Third ooth hatched today. Number unknown, my net cube cages are swarming with pennata!


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## Danny. (Jul 1, 2013)

glock34girl said:


> They cannabalize like crazy. Essentially, I lost a hatch and a half over night and then ooth 6-8 had extremely low numbers, like 08 per. Lol I already have an l3 so I guess if diapause is at L4 I better thing fast since its 107 here.


Mine are well fed and still cannibalize like crazy! Starting to debate if I should sell to a few select people or buy more net cages!


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## mantid_mike (Jul 1, 2013)

Danny. said:


> Mine are well fed and still cannibalize like crazy! Starting to debate if I should sell to a few select people or buy more net cages!


yeah, you live in LA. sell me some! haha


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## Mime454 (Jul 1, 2013)

Danny. said:


> Mine are well fed and still cannibalize like crazy! Starting to debate if I should sell to a few select people or buy more net cages!


Me me me!


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## glock34girl (Jul 7, 2013)

Update Señor Danny! Update!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Danny. (Jul 7, 2013)

Update: Fourth ooth hatched yesterday. 17 total none stuck.


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## glock34girl (Jul 7, 2013)

What's final count on four?


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## Danny. (Jul 8, 2013)

Total count on four is 17 none stuck.


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