# Chinese abdomen kink!



## Kermit (Jun 28, 2016)

Whoa, what is going on with this one's abdomen having a kink in it!

My other 3 don't look like this.

It's eating a cricket right now and isn't acting abnormal?!?

Bizarre!


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## hibiscusmile (Jun 28, 2016)

I have one that looks just like that, maybe it is the species, I don't think I have seen it in others, but my Chinese look s just like that.


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## Kermit (Jun 28, 2016)

Yeah it's like in a pair of pants


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## Kermit (Jun 28, 2016)

Like a fold in a pair of pants!?


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## Jgod (Jun 28, 2016)

Kermit said:


> Whoa, what is going on with this one's abdomen having a kink in it!
> 
> My other 3 don't look like this.
> 
> ...


I had this same exact problem with my T. Sinensis. What I read you can do is try to encourage the mantis to be on the sides of the container so that its abdomen does not bend like that. Another thing to research is crickets and their negative potential on mantis health. A lot of keepers refuse to use crickets as a feeder, especially types purchased from retail pet stores which often do not care properly for them. (cannibalizing, sick, dying, crickets) I found a local pet store that sells dubia roaches in all sizes and i haven't had any problems with those. 

Best wishes.


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## Digger (Jun 28, 2016)

I've raised a lot of Tenodera sinensis.  Many of them demonstrated this folded abdomen and most got through it just fine.  If it really bothers you (as it did me in the beginning), you can turn the container to let gravity pull the ab to the "unfolded" position.  However, your mantid will most likely re-position himself upside down again, in short order.  I have fed gut-loaded, store-bought crix for years and never had a problem.  Do mix the diet as much as you can with fresh yummies from the field (ooooooo how we does like chasing moffs !! )


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## Kermit (Jun 28, 2016)

Thx for All the responses. It is peculiar as their abdomen will even sag to the side if they hang on the side of the enclosure. As his thorax filled, he eventually straightened his abdomen so the food could pass.

I too have experienced "bad crickets" and years ago lost an anole colony and bearded dragon colony from a bad bacteria ladened cricket batch. I have had in-depth conversations with cricket breeders at the annual reptile shows and they say crickets will get that way when allowed to feed on dead crickets left in the cricket enclosure and also if kept too cold. Basically they get sick and bad bacteria establishes in their gut.

I struggle with the whole "fly management" (short shelf life; transfer into enclosure, etc.) So unless the sp. Is known not to tolerate crickets (Idolos, B. Mendica, other flower Mantis and many grass Mantis), crickets are just "easier".

 I also feed some medium sized species my special fruit fly cultures (fat and nutritious) throughout their entire life cycle... just many more... no issues. ff's are easier to manage with the squeeze bottles!

For store bought, or breeder bought crickets, I agree with immediate administration of good diet ( I use Crick Crack™), and haven't had any problems.

My wife is extremely tolerant when it comes to my Mantis obsession, but draws the line at roaches! 

Chinese, Stagmos, Dead Leaf's, Giant Africans, etc are ok with crickets, not to mention have incredible appetites! Occasional super worms too!??

Wish the bb flies were longer lived.

This is my first go at the Chinese... cool personalities!

Want to look into bushes that attract bees so I can naturally harvest them as a staple diet!

Sorry really got off topic here?


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## hibiscusmile (Jun 29, 2016)

Your bbs should live for a long time if fed. How are u keeping them?


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## Kermit (Jun 29, 2016)

Keep in refrigerator, sprinkle out the pupae needed for 2-3 feedings (~4 days worth), after a few days they hatch either in the Mantis enclosure (can't do this with the high heat sp.) or in 32oz dedicated fly cup, place in freezer for 35 seconds and then distribute into the PM enclosure... 

I've heard of feeding the flies but seems difficult with opening and closing the container to do so and what do you feed? What is the life expectancy if hatched, then feed? 

My technique mentioned above causes the pupae to fail in about 1-2 weeks in the refrigerator.

I'd there a better way???!?

Thx!


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## Summerbug (Jun 29, 2016)

Regarding the kinked abdomen, if possible, it would be best to discourage them from always hanging from the ceiling (in my experience).  I've raised numerous batches of Chinese mantises, and may of those that I did not remedy the kink for ended up dying.  Eventually, the gut gets a blockage and they can't pass food anymore.  If you could put mesh or even tissue on the sides, that may help.  Maybe some stuff to climb (in the enclosure) will encourage them to not hang upside down from the top so much.    I even got to the point where I would turn the enclosure on its' side (if that is at all possible) to encourage them to spend some time at some other angle.  Even tilting the enclosure so he has a lesser angle should help. I am not so sure about the cricket issue.  I use crickets but I only use nymph crickets and they go through lengthy (1-2 week) quarantine with high quality feeding before I feed mantis with them.


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## Kermit (Jun 29, 2016)

Wow invaluable council on the abdomen and the quarantine of crickets 

It just occurred to me that if they are more frequently feed there is less chance of the abdomen being empty vs full. When full they have less tenancy for the kink to happen.

I will work at limiting the hanging upside down orientation. Thanks for that!


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## Beejay (Jul 17, 2016)

I've had the folded abdomen on a couple of Chinese mantids. Both were males and I noticed it right after they molted(L6ish). In both cases the abdomens stayed floppy until the next molt and were normal after that. I think it may be caused by them hanging at the wrong angle when they're still soft. They harden with that fold and it leaves that spot weak until the next molt.


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## Kermit (Sep 16, 2016)

Update: 

The Mantis continued to move into his preferred position where the abdomen would fold, despite my efforts to change his orientation.

Beejay... Mine turned out to be a male too!

As as soon as he molted to adult his wings kept his abdomen straight! He is a heathy and strong man even to this day!

Wonder if it is just makes of this species that are prone to this strange abnormality.

Thanks for everyone's help here

Kermit


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## Kermit (Sep 16, 2016)

*Males of this species


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## CosbyArt (Sep 17, 2016)

Glad to see your male is doing fine, especially with his wings holding him straight.  

I haven't had the abdomen issues in Chinese mantids, but I did with male Egyptian pygmy nymphs (Miomantis paykullii) I hatched from ooths. It seems it was primarily a male problem, and likely due to them eating much less compared to the females. I tried to rectify the problem by feeding them more prey, but that only stressed them out. Sadly many nymphs that had the abdomen problem did not survive to adulthood.


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## Precious (Sep 18, 2016)

The best source I've found for healthy crix is "Fluker Farms."  I've had sick mantids that I believed originated with pet store crix.  I have a large plastic bin filled with a substrate of oatmeal and egg crate for my crix from Fluker.  They live long, molt in the substrate and I actually weed out the dead frequently.  I feed them Fluker food cubes with calcium and use Fluker water.  The oatmeal is an excellent absorbent material and keeps them odor free. I change out the substrate every couple of months as other feeder worms sometimes find their way in and will breed, ewwwI I use various flies almost exclusively with nymphs but crix are great for big species (adults). I hate crix but they are convenient and I'm a total girl about roaches. I know they're better but can't quite yet bring myself to do it!  Bent mantids of mine have quickly straightened when forced to hang correctly, but they manage either way!


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## Kermit (Sep 19, 2016)

Thanks for the cricket lead!

The water by Fuller I have heard good things as well. 

I recently developed a technique for catching house and bottle flies with a net, then with the use of a small shop vacuum I transfer them to a cup. 1 minute in the freezer and I sprinkle them into each of my PM enclosures. 

I make new ff cultures every 2 weeks, but my ff yield technique is still being protected, so I find myself short sometimes. 

Expecting a ghost ootheca to hatch out shortly so ff will stay in demand but my others are in need of a larger food source. The outdoor fly technique produces more flies then they can eat for 2-3 days.

I'm with you on the roaches.?


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## Mystymantis (Sep 23, 2016)

I have had this hanging abdomen problem in several Chinese mantises, and have always wondered why it happens. And still wonder, though this post was very informative! I have had mantises with this condition molt to adults and be fine. Although I think some have died from it do to blockage as stated above. It is a very strange health problem.


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