# Floppy abdomen issue, Please Help!



## amonofrio1 (May 16, 2014)

Recently 8 of my 10 mantis have developed this weird problem where their abdomen is bent back and kind of floppy. When they hang upside down their abdomen flops back almost to their head (See Picture). I think it looks bad but the mantis act relatively normal otherwise, they eat when I put food in the cage and drink up when I spray them. I wonder if they don't have enough room to move around or they fell and bent their abdomen back. Most of them are in mason jars and are 2-3 months old. A couple have randomly died recently and I am worried that more will follow. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## TheBeesKnees (May 16, 2014)

I have never experienced this problem myself, but it seems relatively common in the Tenodera genus. The best suggestion I've read was to reorient the enclosure so that they can hang vertically, but cannot hang completely upside-down from a horizontal surface. Given their condition, I have a feeling that they'd have a higher chance at molting successfully from a more vertical position that allows their abdomen to sit normally than they would in an upside-down horizontal position that causes their abdomen to sag as they do in your photos.
Usually, the mantis will outgrow the floppy abdomen with little problem, but it can prove fatal if the abdomen remains kinked most of the time. It may have been what caused the death of your deceased nymphs (but it can't be said for sure). 

I'm sure someone else with proper experience with this issue will swing by and give you a more detail prognosis based on their personal observations though!


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## Digger (May 16, 2014)

Amon,

I've had this problem with a fair number of Tenodera sinensis over the years. I've experimented with various attempted solutions, but none worked. Research is mixed on this anomaly being dangerous or not. My experience is that you can't control it (you know they're going to hang upside down come heck or high water) and I have no recollection that it causes irreparable harm. So....just relax and treat them normally. The majority should "straighten out" after a molt or two.


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## Summerbug (May 16, 2014)

I have had this problem before with my Tenodera species. Digger is right in that it is very difficult to correct. However, if you can try to avoid them hanging upside down from the ceiling of the cage, that would be best. I had several who had that problem. They all died because they developed a stricture that obstructed movement of food down the gut. Not to mention, they can't molt like that. The next time I had a batch like that, I free ranged them so that they had no ceilings to climb. The strictures didn't get as severe. Surprisingly, the flopping corrected itself and they (most) survived to adulthood. I think the only ones that flopped were the males. Their abdominal muscles must be weaker. If you can't free range, make the ceilings of the cage difficult to reach (I have put lose mesh (or tulle) up top. Also, make sure they have sticks (I use soft pipecleaners) and other places to hang out so they don't spend all their time on the ceiling. Yours are pretty big so maybe instead of pipecleaners you can use silk fake plants or real plants. I hope that helps.


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## JP77 (May 16, 2014)

One of my Chinese mantis had this problem right after a molt. I rotated the enclosure so he couldn't hang upside down and then made sure he had enough food and water. He threw up food and water for a while due to the kink in his abdomen, but after about a week the abdomen was much stronger, and no longer kinked when he's upside down. He's doing well now and I've rotated his enclosure upright again. That's what I would try for your mantids.


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## amonofrio1 (May 16, 2014)

Thank you so much everyone for your input, this site is great I dont know why I took so long to become a part of it. I am happy to hear that my mantis will have a chance. I have been wanting to set up a new enclsoure(s) because most of them are starting to out grow their mason jars but Im just not sure where to start. I will probably scan the enclosures and housing section and see if I can get any ideas.

@summerbug - how does free range work? I like the sound of that, Im just not sure my girlfriend would be too happy about it.

@JP77 - It does seem like this started happening to my Chinese mantids right after they molted. I am going to setup a rotated encoluse real quick and post the picture. I would appreciate it if you check it out and see if it is what you were talking about.


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## JP77 (May 16, 2014)

amonofrio1 said:


> Thank you so much everyone for your input, this site is great I dont know why I took so long to become a part of it. I am happy to hear that my mantis will have a chance. I have been wanting to set up a new enclsoure(s) because most of them are starting to out grow their mason jars but Im just not sure where to start. I will probably scan the enclosures and housing section and see if I can get any ideas.
> 
> @summerbug - how does free range work? I like the sound of that, Im just not sure my girlfriend would be too happy about it.
> 
> @JP77 - It does seem like this started happening to my Chinese mantids right after they molted. I am going to setup a rotated encoluse real quick and post the picture. I would appreciate it if you check it out and see if it is what you were talking about.


Sure thing!


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## amonofrio1 (May 16, 2014)

I rotated the enclosure and I think it helped but I have a feeling he is still going to find a way to hang upsidedown. Can you think of any improvements I could make to help with my issue?

Rotated Enclosure:





But it is probably better then their original elcosure which they have been in for a while, what do you think?:


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## JP77 (May 17, 2014)

I had mine in a smooth cylindrical container, about the size of your mason jar, and I just turned it on its side. If they just molted, you can put them in a more sparse container since they won't mold again for a while. I would set your mason jar on its side, just make sure it can't roll off anything, and then maybe put the other one in mason jar if it still insists on hanging from the ceiling.

Other than that, just make sure they eat and drink, and keep their abdomens relatively straight. After a few days they'll hopefully be better. When their abdomens are stronger and won't kink, you can set the containers upright again.


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