# Cameron Highlands/Tapah Hills



## sufistic

Mantis hunting trip with khabirun (my brother) and bonjot (wife).

*1st Day*

Butterfly Farm &amp; Butterfly Garden (Cameron Highlands)

Deroplatys truncata







Deroplatys desiccata











Deroplatys lobata and Hierodula sp. making out lol






Hymenopus coronatus






Tapah Hills (found in the wild 1000-2000 ft elevation)

Possibly Creobroter sp? (please help ID)











Unknown sp. (please help ID)
















...


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## sufistic

CONTINUED

Tapah Hills (found in the wild 1000-2000 ft elevation)

Unknown sp. (please help ID)
















Last but not least, Toxodera sp.


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## Kruszakus

Wow! This is some good stuff!


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## tier

Ya, not too bad


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## Rick

First and the last one seriously need to get into the hobby.


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## chun

good find!! thanks for sharing the photos!


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## tier

Rick said:


> First and the last one seriously need to get into the hobby.


First one is in the hobby already. Thank to france in this case


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## Rick

tier said:


> First one is in the hobby already. Thank to france in this case


Then it needs to get over here.


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## mantidsaresweet

Yeah send some to the US!


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## massaman

to bad you need to be a real experienced breeder to even attempt to raise those Toxodera sp. and doubt anyone has even succeeded in raising a generation of them but would love to have them in culture but highly unlikely!


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## revmdn

Rick said:


> First and the last one seriously need to get into the hobby.


Big +1. I also really like your "unknown" mantid.


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## Katnapper

Great finds. Did you find males and females of some of the species, and are you going to try to breed them and get them into culture?


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## C.way

wow, nice one you found, love the dead leaf mantis and the unknown sp., those place are so near to my home town, yet I don't have the time to go there...sigh


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## MantisNation

Great photos! that unknown mantis resembles b. mendica to me with coloring and patterns


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## PhilinYuma

MantisNation said:


> Great photos! that unknown mantis resembles b. mendica to me with coloring and patterns


It really does! The pronotum looks like that of the thistle mantis, too. It's a long swim from N. Africa, to Pahang, though! So what is the word, Tier?


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## cloud jaguar

Toxodera is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!


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## yeatzee

Arkanis said:


> Toxodera is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!


+1


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## tier

> So what is the word, Tier?


I don't know  Well, I don't know the species. I know it is no _Blepharopsis mendica mendica_.


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## bassist

Really great finds.


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## PhilinYuma

tier said:


> I don't know  Well, I don't know the species. I know it is no _Blepharopsis mendica mendica_.


Can't argue with that!


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## Mantibama

Wow I want to fly out to Malaysia now. Great pictures all around, but that unknown species has to be my favorite. So cool!


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## khabirun

Morning Guys, thanks for the comments. So todays the second day, we're on our way for our mantis hunting, probably with the aboriginals, wish us luck. Thanks for your replies, we will try to culture what we can but for now...mantis first.


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## Christian

The mantids were bought from the natives, isn't it? You should not tell us you have found them if you didn't.

Anyway:

1. _Creobroter_ sp.

2. _Majangella_ sp.

3. _Stenotoxodera porioni_. Looks like a male.


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## Emile.Wilson

massaman said:


> to bad you need to be a real experienced breeder to even attempt to raise those Toxodera sp. and doubt anyone has even succeeded in raising a generation of them but would love to have them in culture but highly unlikely!


Lol


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## C.way

sell me some extra pair of dead leafs or the unknown sp. if u people got extra from the trip


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## khabirun

Christian said:


> The mantids were bought from the natives, isn't it? You should not tell us you have found them if you didn't.Anyway:
> 
> 1. _Creobroter_ sp.
> 
> 2. _Majangella_ sp.
> 
> 3. _Stenotoxodera porioni_. Looks like a male.


That's a blatant accusation, and coming from you Christian, that's kind of a low blow. We went hunting and we found the mantids. We made contact with the aboriginals and they told us all the spots to look out for the mantids. So I'm going to tell you again, we found the mantids in the wild. More photos coming.

My brother cannot log on at the moment. he'll try again later


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## khabirun

C.way said:


> sell me some extra pair of dead leafs or the unknown sp. if u people got extra from the trip


Hey bro, the dead leaf mantids in the photos are from the Butterfly Garden/Farm. Although they were for sale, we didn't buy them because we've made good friends with the Aboriginals and they showed us the spots where to find different species of mantids, different species can usually be found on certain trees/plants/flowers. We just came back from a 5 hours hunting trip deep in the rainforests and we found a couple of D.desiccata and D.lobata and many more. We're lucky to be in the best season to find the mantids.

If you know Malay, you have a great advantage with the Aboriginals. They treated us well and even babysitted my baby nephew when we went deep into the rainforests!


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## khabirun

massaman said:


> to bad you need to be a real experienced breeder to even attempt to raise those Toxodera sp. and doubt anyone has even succeeded in raising a generation of them but would love to have them in culture but highly unlikely!


True, but just being able to see them in the wild and being able to hold them is satisfying enough. Also, we don't seem to find it skittish from the comments we hear from some. Seems that they're alright with being handled although we try not to do that much!


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## sufistic

Christian said:


> The mantids were bought from the natives, isn't it? You should not tell us you have found them if you didn't.Anyway:
> 
> 1. _Creobroter_ sp.
> 
> 2. _Majangella_ sp.
> 
> 3. _Stenotoxodera porioni_. Looks like a male.


So I can finally log in, that was wierd.

Yes it is possible to buy from the natives, only if they have mantids already stocked. Usually they don't because no one buys mantids, people usually buy butterflies and beetles so that's what the natives will usually hunt for because hunting mantids, for them, is a waste of valuable time.

So we met the Aboriginals, made really good friends with them and they taught us what we needed to know on hunting mantids. And no one can beat them when it comes to the hunt, not even entomologists living far away from the rainforests. Heck, these Aboriginals wore slippers into the rainforests and used little to no equipment at all when hunting.

And boy, we found so many mantids. This is the best season to go mantis hunting in Malaysia.


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## mantidian

Hey when are you going again? I wanna tag along=)


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## sufistic

mantidian said:


> Hey when are you going again? I wanna tag along=)


Hey, we still have two days here and I'm not sure when we're coming again. Probably next year, same season. If we're successful in culturing what we have, you won't have to go far to get some rare mantids!


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## mantidian

LOL

any luck so far?


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## sufistic

mantidian said:


> LOLany luck so far?


We're currently feeding our mantids and making them really comfortable first. What we have (males &amp; females) so far, H.coronatus, D.desiccata, D.lobata, T.elegans and some unknown ones.


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## Christian

Unfortunately, the real interesting stuff (_Majangella_ &amp; _Stenotoxodera_) seem to be only males - at least what I can guess from the pics. Do you have more specimens and/or pics of the underside of the abdomen?


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## sufistic

Christian said:


> Unfortunately, the real interesting stuff (_Majangella_ &amp; _Stenotoxodera_) seem to be only males - at least what I can guess from the pics. Do you have more specimens and/or pics of the underside of the abdomen?


As you probably know, males are much easier to find as they're easily attracted to light. We found a different Toxodera sp. and it also seems to be a male. We won't stop trying though as we still have two days left. We'll try and take some photos of the underside of their abdomen.


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## mantidian

T.elegans pair? be sure to tell me when you have ooths=D

and you're hunting at night?


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## yen_saw

WOW Shaik!! Congrate on the find. Great job spotting them in the wild, you have done well contacting the orang asli (Aboriginal). When i was there in June I couldn't find any orang asli for help, i think most of them went to collect durian instead :lol: during the month of May/June as it seems more profitable for them than collecting bugs. Yeah as I told you in PM it is the best time of the season for bug hunting now in that area the only problem is rain. Did you use the new Simpang Pulai way or the old Tapah route? Please show us more pics and we look forward to it. Have a great hunting trip and stay safe and stay away from 'babi hutan' (wild boar)


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## sufistic

yen_saw said:


> WOW Shaik!! Congrate on the find. Great job spotting them in the wild, you have done well contacting the orang asli (Aboriginal). When i was there in June I couldn't find any orang asli for help, i think most of them went to collect durian instead :lol: during the month of May/June as it seems more profitable for them than collecting bugs. Yeah as I told you in PM it is the best time of the season for bug hunting now in that area the only problem is rain. Did you use the new Simpang Pulai way or the old Tapah route? Please show us more pics and we look forward to it. Have a great hunting trip and stay safe and stay away from 'babi hutan' (wild boar)


Hey Yen, We just woke up, lol, too tired cause yesterday we got around 13 or so mantis.

2 adult male D.lobata, 1 female sub-adult D.lobata, 1 male sub-adult D.lobata

1 L5 female D.desiccata, 1 sub-adult male D.desiccata,

1 pair Acromantis sp (possibly) (oh and they're mating right now lol)

1 male sub-adult T.elegans, 2 female sub-adult T.elegans (WOOO!)

1 pair H.coronatus (WOOO!!!)

1 male Toxodera (different one than we caught the other day)

Pictures will be posted tonight or tomorrow morning, cause we're going food hunting for the mantids.

Anyways, Yen, we used the new Simpang Pulai route, and if not for you my friend, we wouldn't have gotten so many mantids. The information you gave us are all exact. We found mantids on every spot that you stated plus the ones the Aboriginals showed. Thanks very much, more will come soon i hope, wish us luck.

By the way this is khabirun posting, lazy to log out.


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## sufistic

yen_saw said:


> WOW Shaik!! Congrate on the find. Great job spotting them in the wild, you have done well contacting the orang asli (Aboriginal). When i was there in June I couldn't find any orang asli for help, i think most of them went to collect durian instead :lol: during the month of May/June as it seems more profitable for them than collecting bugs. Yeah as I told you in PM it is the best time of the season for bug hunting now in that area the only problem is rain. Did you use the new Simpang Pulai way or the old Tapah route? Please show us more pics and we look forward to it. Have a great hunting trip and stay safe and stay away from 'babi hutan' (wild boar)


Many thanks Yen. You're right about the Orang Asli collecting durians haha. Along the old Tapah route heading to Cameron, there are many villages and at this one area, you can find the bug-hunting Orang Asli. They all seem to be located in that particular village. If you're heading there again, we can give you the exact location. We gave them tips for helping us hunt the mantids because after all it's their main income. You were actually really lucky to have found an Orchid not too deep in the rainforests. We found one female Orchid really deep in the forests about 15 ft above the ground, perching on a particular flower. According to the Orang Asli, T.elegans and H.coronatus will usually be found among these flowers. I'm not sure about the type of the flower but I'll try and find out when I can.


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## Christian

Are the Toxos still living and if yes: what have you fed to them?


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## massaman

OK OK OK I am sorry for what I posted and taken it off!

felt like just wanting to end it all over this but feel much better now!


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## PhilinYuma

massaman said:


> Toxodera denticulata (15 with 20cm of body)but there exists another so large and rare species, paratoxodera cornicollis


"Wow, massaman, did you copy this from a post on phasmes.com: "Toxodera denticulata (*15* à 20cm de corps).....seul une poignée d'exemplaires(3 ou 4?) sont capturés chaque année......




.....mais il existe une autre espèce aussi grande et rare,Speudotoxodera sp.?"

If so, the binomial at the end is changed (his is a typo for Pseudotoxodera) and the translation makes more sense if you render "15 a 20cm" as "15 to 20cm" and "mais il existe une autre espece aussi grande et rare" as "but there is another species, equally large and rare..."

I have hit the report button on yr plagiarism in the past. My reports have not always been acted upon, and I have no complaint, since it isn't my call, but this goes beyond theft of other people's ideas and work (and theft is an entirely apropriate term for this kind of behaviour; it is not tolerated even at the H.S. level in the US) and is an outright misrepresentation of the plagiarized writer's words.

In this case, we don't know if you stole from the French phasmid site and botched the translation or whether someone else made this sad attempt without acknowledgment and you ripped that off.

Think about it, massaman, we are all aware of your unique literary style and know that if you write anything with any kind of punctuation aside from an exclamation point at the end, you plagiarized it. Why do you do this?

Oh, and please don't edit yr original post and pretend that there was a URL there all the time, as you have in the past.


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## sbugir

lol @ Phil.

"Think about it, massaman, we are all aware of your unique literary style and know that if you write anything with any kind of punctuation aside from an exclamation point at the end, you plagiarized it. Why do you do this?

Oh, and please don't edit yr original post and pretend that there was a URL there all the time, as you have in the past."

Oh, and:

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?sh...40&amp;start=40 (PhilinYuma 3)

Just in case someone wants the source


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## massaman

maybe I am too lazy to do the right thing and have been told that many times that I am real smart but choose to be lazy to get by I guess!


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## sufistic

Christian said:


> Are the Toxos still living and if yes: what have you fed to them?


Yeah, we've been feeding them wild-caught butterflies and honey. They're definitely sit-and-wait, not aggressive at all. What's interesting is their method of catching prey is similar to the mantidfly and quite unlike other mantids.


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## [email protected]

:blink: :lol: Amazing bugs!!! Good luck with them.


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## yen_saw

Howdy Shaik, glad to know the tips help, and thanks for the info on Tapah route. The Orang Asli residing along Simpang pulai way appear to be more interested with commercial works like strawberry, tea, and vegi plantations and setting road side stalls selling durian and honey rather than bugs, i must have been there at the wrong season  . The old route has lot of stomach churning winding road full of dangerous blind spots and landslide issue but the scenery is majestic, did you snap any pic at Iskandar Falls?

Have a safe trip driving back to Singapore (believed you have arrived by this time), and i hope you enjoy Teh Boh from this trip  



sufistic said:


> Hey Yen, We just woke up, lol, too tired cause yesterday we got around 13 or so mantis.2 adult male D.lobata, 1 female sub-adult D.lobata, 1 male sub-adult D.lobata
> 
> 1 L5 female D.desiccata, 1 sub-adult male D.desiccata,
> 
> 1 pair Acromantis sp (possibly) (oh and they're mating right now lol)
> 
> 1 male sub-adult T.elegans, 2 female sub-adult T.elegans (WOOO!)
> 
> 1 pair H.coronatus (WOOO!!!)
> 
> 1 male Toxodera (different one than we caught the other day)
> 
> Pictures will be posted tonight or tomorrow morning, cause we're going food hunting for the mantids.
> 
> Anyways, Yen, we used the new Simpang Pulai route, and if not for you my friend, we wouldn't have gotten so many mantids. The information you gave us are all exact. We found mantids on every spot that you stated plus the ones the Aboriginals showed. Thanks very much, more will come soon i hope, wish us luck.
> 
> By the way this is khabirun posting, lazy to log out.





sufistic said:


> Many thanks Yen. You're right about the Orang Asli collecting durians haha. Along the old Tapah route heading to Cameron, there are many villages and at this one area, you can find the bug-hunting Orang Asli. They all seem to be located in that particular village. If you're heading there again, we can give you the exact location. We gave them tips for helping us hunt the mantids because after all it's their main income. You were actually really lucky to have found an Orchid not too deep in the rainforests. We found one female Orchid really deep in the forests about 15 ft above the ground, perching on a particular flower. According to the Orang Asli, T.elegans and H.coronatus will usually be found among these flowers. I'm not sure about the type of the flower but I'll try and find out when I can.


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## khabirun

Waddup, we're back in Singapore.

Time for some pics...

*2nd Day*

A trip to the middle of the rain forest with aboriginals.

oh BTW I'm in the Adidas jacket, sufistic's the one in grey, the other 2 are the aborigines and bonjot (sufistic's wife) is the one taking pictures.



















































tbc...


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## khabirun

cont'd



















































tbc..


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## khabirun

cont'd..





















And our camera battery died....

Toxos





















D.desiccata eating











tbc..


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## khabirun

cont'd

D.desiccata eating






D.lobata camo pose while bee in forelegs...






Not sure what species this is, looks similar to Citharomantis falcata.

Female











Pair































tbc...


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## khabirun

cont'd






T.elegans




































That's it for Cameron Highlands pictures.

Next reply is pictures taken few hours ago in Singapore.


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## ismart

Wow! Great pic's! Awsome finds!


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## khabirun

These are the total number mantids we got while at Cameron Highlands/Tapah Hills.

H.coronatus

3 adult females

1 adult male

D.lobata

3 adult females

1 sub-adult female

2 adult males

1 sub-adult male

D.desiccata

1 L5 or L6 female (not sure lol)

1 sub-adult male

T.elegans

5 adult females

3 sub-adult females

2 sub-adult males (puny!!)

Mantis that looks like Citharomantis falcata

1 female

1 male

Toxoderas

2 different species of male

1 very cool looking green and goddayum beautiful toxo (probably female) and its probably a nymph, not very sure about this species at all lol.

Oh and the male creobroter and male majangella too, we let them go since we couldn't find their female. but the toxos however we couldn't let it go, cause its just pure gold  .

So here are the pics



















































tbc...


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## khabirun

cont'd

last but not least
















enjoying the mealworm




































*[SIZE=18pt]Sorry for the bad pictures, but please enjoy it, thanks.[/SIZE]*


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## khabirun

ismart said:


> Wow! Great pic's! Awsome finds!


Thanks Bro, wish us luck on breeding these beauties.


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## Katnapper

Grand photos and best of luck with the breeding! Too bad you couldn't find the mates to the Toxodera sp. Thanks for sharing the pics with us!


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## ismart

khabirun said:


> Thanks Bro, wish us luck on breeding these beauties.


I will!  

Those _Toxodera sp._ are insane looking! :blink: It's almost hard to imagine such a mantis even exist!


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## massaman

just hope you can get some of these into the U.S so they can be put into circulation and enjoyed and raised!


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## Christian

The "Citharomantis" ones are _Acromantis_.

The Toxos are:

_Stenotoxodera porioni_

Toxodera fimbriata

Toxodera beieri (the nymph).

Do you have habitat pics of those?


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## revmdn

Amazing!


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## gadunka888

sufistic said:


> Many thanks Yen. You're right about the Orang Asli collecting durians haha. Along the old Tapah route heading to Cameron, there are many villages and at this one area, you can find the bug-hunting Orang Asli. They all seem to be located in that particular village. If you're heading there again, we can give you the exact location. We gave them tips for helping us hunt the mantids because after all it's their main income. You were actually really lucky to have found an Orchid not too deep in the rainforests. We found one female Orchid really deep in the forests about 15 ft above the ground, perching on a particular flower. According to the Orang Asli, T.elegans and H.coronatus will usually be found among these flowers. I'm not sure about the type of the flower but I'll try and find out when I can.


do you have pics of the flower? i can help you ID them.

Are the t. elegans still surviving? what do you feed them?


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## Teaspoons

Those photos are just amazing, it is great to see so

may beautiful and unusual species!


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## sufistic

Christian said:


> The "Citharomantis" ones are _Acromantis_.The Toxos are:
> 
> _Stenotoxodera porioni_
> 
> Toxodera fimbriata
> 
> Toxodera beieri (the nymph).
> 
> Do you have habitat pics of those?


Thanks for the ID. As you noticed, we didn't take much photos in the wild because it's the rainy season here in South East Asia. As for the Toxos, what we've learnt from the Aboriginals is that they're usually found at the understory level where it's not too thick as they need a lot of space. Toxos in captivity usually don't do well because of space. If plants and ample space are not provided, they'd start eating their limbs due to stress and eventually kill themselves.


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## sufistic

tropid0_mAntis said:


> do you have pics of the flower? i can help you ID them. Are the t. elegans still surviving? what do you feed them?


You can see the flower on the photos of the Orchid mantis we found. That's just one kind of flower though. The Aboriginals call those 'Bunga Bakol'. Other than flowers, they can be found on frangipanis, papaya trees, etc.

All of our T.elegans are doing well. We've been feeding them butterflies and mealworms. The butterflies we have are too big though (we got some from the Aboriginals) and they're a bit clueless when it comes to catching the mealworms. So what we do is, cut the butterflies' and mealworms' heads (we feed the heads to smaller species), dip the punctured thorax in pure honey and let them have a taste of the honey. Once the honey is consumed, they will start chewing on the thorax and hold the food themselves.


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## sufistic

yen_saw said:


> Howdy Shaik, glad to know the tips help, and thanks for the info on Tapah route. The Orang Asli residing along Simpang pulai way appear to be more interested with commercial works like strawberry, tea, and vegi plantations and setting road side stalls selling durian and honey rather than bugs, i must have been there at the wrong season  . The old route has lot of stomach churning winding road full of dangerous blind spots and landslide issue but the scenery is majestic, did you snap any pic at Iskandar Falls? Have a safe trip driving back to Singapore (believed you have arrived by this time), and i hope you enjoy Teh Boh from this trip


Thanks again Yen. Yeah the old route is dangerous but well worth it. Thank God my wife's an excellent driver (7-8 hrs drive to and from Singapore plus the winding road!) We didn't snap any photos of the Iskandar Falls. We didn't get to use the camera much because of the rainy season.


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## sufistic

Katnapper said:


> Grand photos and best of luck with the breeding! Too bad you couldn't find the mates to the Toxodera sp. Thanks for sharing the pics with us!


Many thanks. Yeah too bad we couldn't find the Toxo mates. They're really tough to spot. Oh well, we'll definitely make a few more trips there. The prime location for hunting mantids there is not in Cameron Highlands itself. Many people get confused because people like to say they found this and that in Cameron Highlands. The mantids to be found in Cameron Highlands itself are usually the smaller species. There is no chance of finding H.coronatus, Deroplatys sp., T.elegans and Toxodera sp. in Cameron Highlands.

Best location to look for larger mantids is between Tapah and Cameron Highlands at an elevation of 1000-2000 ft. This region is usually called 'Tapah Hills'.


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## sufistic

ismart said:


> I will!   Those _Toxodera sp._ are insane looking! :blink: It's almost hard to imagine such a mantis even exist!


Thanks ismart. Yeah we couldn't believe our eyes when we first saw the Toxos, especially the nymph. They're so out of this world. The photos we took don't do justice to their beauty and awesomeness. In terms of camouflage, I think no other mantis beats the Toxos. This is why they're hard to spot. According to the Aboriginals, the Toxodera sp in Tapah Hills are abundant. They've seen like 4-5 different species of Toxodera. This is good news because even though they're not in culture yet, they're all still out there and doing well.


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## Christian

Thanks for the info!


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## sufistic

Short video clip of the Toxodera beieri nymph here.


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## revmdn

Wow! So cool.


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## cloud jaguar

Awesome video! Thanks for posting that. What an incredibly cool little beast that nymph is!


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## sufistic

Arkanis said:


> Awesome video! Thanks for posting that. What an incredibly cool little beast that nymph is!


Many thanks. Sorry for the terribly quality though, it was taken using a crappy iPhone. This little beast can easily be handled just like any mantis. Too bad we couldn't find a pair. Once it reaches adulthood, I might make another trip to find its mate or just release it back into the wild. I'd rather let this beautiful species live free than let it die all alone in Singapore.


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## yen_saw

Wonderful collection guys! Thanks a bunch for sharing the pics with us. The Toxodera mantis looks like from out of this world! :blink: Your collection definitely dwarfs the one i did back in June. All the best in finding more cool species on your next trip.


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## ABbuggin

Great video! The Toxo wiggles a lot like gongylus do.


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## Rick

Absolutely incredible.


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## ismart

Great video! Love the way he sways!


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## C.way

addictive movement, I'm eager to head to tapah hill now consider that I can reach there in 15 minutes drive...but with no time...argh...addictive


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## massaman

Just wonder if those yellow flower mantids (Parymenopus Davisoni) would reside in that area or more near borneo or someplace!


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## ismart

C.way said:


> addictive movement, I'm eager to head to tapah hill now consider that I can reach there in 15 minutes drive...but with no time...argh...addictive


Dude! Seriously? 15 minutes away from mantis mecca! I so hate you right now! :lol: You got to make some time!


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## sufistic

ABbuggin said:


> Great video! The Toxo wiggles a lot like gongylus do.


That's interesting, I've never seen a Gongy move before.


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## sufistic

yen_saw said:


> Wonderful collection guys! Thanks a bunch for sharing the pics with us. The Toxodera mantis looks like from out of this world! :blink: Your collection definitely dwarfs the one i did back in June. All the best in finding more cool species on your next trip.


Many thanks Yen. I guess we're just in the right season. Best month according to the Orang Asli is in December.


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## sufistic

Rick said:


> Absolutely incredible.


Yeah Rick, too bad we don't have a pair. If we did, we'd send some nymphs your way.


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## sufistic

ismart said:


> Great video! Love the way he sways!


Yeah funny how it thinks we can't see it there by moving around like that.


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## sufistic

C.way said:


> addictive movement, I'm eager to head to tapah hill now consider that I can reach there in 15 minutes drive...but with no time...argh...addictive


Bro, if you plan to go there, do tell me. I need some favors  .


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## sufistic

massaman said:


> Just wonder if those yellow flower mantids (Parymenopus Davisoni) would reside in that area or more near borneo or someplace!


They're there. We showed some photos to the Orang Asli and they said P.davisoni is there but it's even more difficult to find than the Toxodera. Most probably because they can only be found in the canopy rainforest layer.


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## ismart

sufistic said:


> They're there. We showed some photos to the Orang Asli and they said P.davisoni is there but it's even more difficult to find than the Toxodera. Most probably because they can only be found in the canopy rainforest layer.


Get your tree climbing equipment ready! :lol:


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## Rick

sufistic said:


> Yeah Rick, too bad we don't have a pair. If we did, we'd send some nymphs your way.


Did you find a female of each one? You live there right?


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## sufistic

ismart said:


> Get your tree climbing equipment ready! :lol:


Haha yeah. If we're lucky, they'd move to the lower layers to find food if they can't get any from the upper layers.


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## sufistic

Rick said:


> Did you find a female of each one? You live there right?


The Toxodera beieri nymph's a female. The other two are adult males. If only they could interbreed! Tapah Hills is in Malaysia, Singapore's neighbouring country. Takes about 7-8 hours to drive from Singapore to Tapah Hills.

There are middleman insect dealers based in Tapah and they can send mantids to anywhere (moreso Singapore because we're not that far) but they'd get their stock from the Aboriginals and sell at ridiculous prices. I already have first-hand contact with the Aboriginals and I can get their help to get more Toxos for me but they have no clue how to ship livestock safely to Singapore.

So it looks like I might have to head to Tapah Hills again if wifey permits because she's the one driving lol.


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## massaman

find any ooths or do they ever find any?


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## sufistic

massaman said:


> find any ooths or do they ever find any?


Actually my brother did spot one ooth. We're not sure what sp. though. Although the Aboriginals are good at finding mantids, they have no clue what an ooth looks like. We showed what we found and they thought it was a butterfly cocoon!

Photos of the ooth. Perhaps someone can help ID?


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## ABbuggin

It's hard to identify ooths. Often, you will have to wait until the nymphs hatch and grow up.  

BTW, here's one of my videos of a gongylus:


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## brancsikia

Where did you find the ootheca? Forest? Plantation?

I looks similar to Statilia ootheca.

It does not look like hatched and most wasps make very distinct holes when they leave the eggcase.

regards


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## gadunka888

the ooth looks like tropidomantis sp.


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## ABbuggin

tropid0_mAntis said:


> the ooth looks like tropidomantis sp.


Pretty sure its not one of those. (I've had them before)


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## massaman

The tropidomantis ooths are very tiny if I remember correctly!


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## yen_saw

The ootheca looks similar to Statilia sp. as Brancsikia stated. Is the ootheca about 1-1.5 inch long?

Following is the hatched Statilia sp. ootheca found in Hong Kong this Summer.






Another fresh Statilia sp. found in Hong Kong, the ootheca hatched out and was later identified as S. nemoralis.






This is the Statilia maculata oothecae I am incubating right now.






As you can see the shape is about the same as the one you have collected there. Not sure what species but we can always till it hatches and the nymphs grow bigger. The ooth looks fresh. If it indeed is Statilia sp. expect to see about 60-100 ever-thirsty nymphs. Good luck!


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## khabirun

Sorry guys, but i think i have to post more of the Toxodera beieri pictures, i just can't get enough of her lol and sorry bout the bad pictures, she moves too much and its hard for me to take pictures

here it goes...


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## Katnapper

Even with bad pictures, she's still astounding!  :lol:


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## sufistic

ABbuggin said:


> BTW, here's one of my videos of a gongylus:


Thanks for sharing the videos Andrew. I've never kept Gongylus before.


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## sufistic

brancsikia said:


> Where did you find the ootheca? Forest? Plantation?I looks similar to Statilia ootheca.
> 
> It does not look like hatched and most wasps make very distinct holes when they leave the eggcase.
> 
> regards


Hey brancsikia, we found the ooth on a long grass on the outskirts of a rainforest.


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## sufistic

yen_saw said:


> The ootheca looks similar to Statilia sp. as Brancsikia stated. Is the ootheca about 1-1.5 inch long?


Yeah Yen! It does look very similar. 99% similar so it should most probably be Statilia sp. Photos will come once they hatch. Thanks.


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## sufistic

Katnapper said:


> Even with bad pictures, she's still astounding!  :lol:


Yeah Rebecca, she's just awesome. She's doing great.


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## gadunka888

u should use the pics of the toxo for the 2010 calender contest lol


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## sufistic

tropid0_mAntis said:


> u should use the pics of the toxo for the 2010 calender contest lol


Quality of our photos suck.


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## sufistic

Bumping up this thread because we just came back from Malaysia and acquired more mantids from our Aboriginal friends. We've got loads of &lt;i&gt;H. coronatus&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;T. elegans&lt;/i&gt; nymphs, 1 &lt;i&gt;D. truncata&lt;/i&gt; female and 2 males, 2 female &lt;i&gt;Creobroter sp.&lt;/i&gt; and 1 male, etc.

Photos of the &lt;i&gt;Creobroter sp.&lt;/i&gt; Anyone know which &lt;i&gt;Creobroter&lt;/i&gt; this is?


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## C.way

wow...so many you got


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## revmdn

Wow, very cool.


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## Rick

Very cool.


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## ismart

You guys are so lucky! &lt;_&lt; :lol:


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## sufistic

C.way said:


> wow...so many you got





revmdn said:


> Wow, very cool.





Rick said:


> Very cool.


Thanks guys. Hopefully we can culture the _Creobroter sp._ and _D. truncata_.



ismart said:


> You guys are so lucky! &lt;_&lt; :lol:


We've got great Aboriginal friends. If we had the time, we'd stay with them for like a month for daily hunting trips. They did tell us that between December and April, mantids appear everywhere in the forest they live in.


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## Katnapper

Congratulations, Shaik, on finding more species.  Sounds like you found some good ones. And I don't think I've ever seen a Creobroter with quite that pattern. It will be interesting to hopefully find out a reliable species identification. Best of luck with all your new mantids!


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## khabirun

Rick, we have a good one for you, I'm sure you're gonna love it, Sufistic's gonna upload some pictures in a few.

Edit: Sorry wrong thread, what a noob


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## yen_saw

sufistic said:


> Bumping up this thread because we just came back from Malaysia and acquired more mantids from our Aboriginal friends. We've got loads of _H. coronatus_ and _T. elegans_ nymphs, 1 _D. truncata_ female and 2 males, 2 female _Creobroter sp._ and 1 male, etc.Photos of the _Creobroter sp._ Anyone know which _Creobroter_ this is?


 Nice haul Shaik!! Males are difficult to spot during day time and the small size doesn't help. Have you asked the Orang asli to set up light trap at night? You will be able to find flying adult males for your adult females.Edit: there are several species of Creobroter in Malaysia. _Creobroter urbana_, Fabricius, 1775 could be one.



khabirun said:


> Rick, we have a good one for you, I'm sure you're gonna love it, Sufistic's gonna upload some pictures in a few. Edit: Sorry wrong thread, what a noob


 Haha... i did the wrong thread thing too sometimes. You are not alone.


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## sufistic

yen_saw said:


> Nice haul Shaik!! Males are difficult to spot during day time and the small size doesn't help. Have you asked the Orang asli to set up light trap at night? You will be able to find flying adult males for your adult females.Edit: there are several species of Creobroter in Malaysia. _Creobroter urbana_, Fabricius, 1775 could be one.


Thanks bro! Yeah actually the Orang Asli would usually look for mantids near lamp posts during night time! They'd get only males though. There's been a couple of instances they caught _Toxodera sp_ males just hanging out at lamp posts! If they setup a light trap just like yours, I'm pretty sure they'll catch more interesting mantids!

We've successfully mated 2 of our female _Creobroter sp._ we acquired from Tapah Hills. One of the females ate our only male and it was too late for me to rescue him. Luckily he already mated with the both of them. It'll be interesting to find out more about this particular _Creobroter sp._ The 'smiley face' markings on them are quite similar to _T. elegans._


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## yen_saw

sufistic said:


> Thanks bro! Yeah actually the Orang Asli would usually look for mantids near lamp posts during night time! They'd get only males though. There's been a couple of instances they caught _Toxodera sp_ males just hanging out at lamp posts! If they setup a light trap just like yours, I'm pretty sure they'll catch more interesting mantids!


 oh yeah that's right i forgotten you mentioned about you found those adult male mantis at night too. Do the Aboriginals use black light or just the regular flourescent? How I wish we can find such species with light trap here


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## revmdn

This sounds like so much fun. I have to try this summer.


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## sufistic

yen_saw said:


> oh yeah that's right i forgotten you mentioned about you found those adult male mantis at night too. Do the Aboriginals use black light or just the regular flourescent? How I wish we can find such species with light trap here


Yeah bro, they'd usually just keep a lookout at normal road lights, I'm not sure if they're fluorescent though, but we have the same kind here in Singapore. Move back to Malaysia Yen, it'll be easier for me to visit you then and we can go mantis hunting like every month or so.


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## yen_saw

sufistic said:


> Yeah bro, they'd usually just keep a lookout at normal road lights, I'm not sure if they're fluorescent though, but we have the same kind here in Singapore. Move back to Malaysia Yen, it'll be easier for me to visit you then and we can go mantis hunting like every month or so.


 hmmm.... need to ask my boss if the Malaysia branch has any long term project assignment for me


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## sufistic

Went for a short trip over the weekend.

Highest point at Cameron Highlands approx. 6561ft:












Found lots of this _Amantis sp._ at approx. 4000ft above sea level.






Gonna be breeding them:






Went collecting at our usual spot 2000ft above sea level at Tapah Hills.






Resting area deep in the forest:






My wife found this at the resting area:











Continued below...


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## sufistic

Continuation of above post...

Give me the rainforests over the Singapore concrete jungle anytime!






Orang Asli:






_Caliris elegans_:











My wife spotted two _Deroplatys sp._ mantids:






My brother (khabirun):






And me:


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## Katnapper

Enjoyed the photos! Do you know what species it is that mantis your wife found at the resting spot? Gorgeous!!


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## khabirun

That's _Deroplatys trigonodera_, of all the _Deroplatys_ species, she just had to spot that one lol...


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## sufistic

Yeah Becky, it's a female subadult _D. trigonodera_. One of the rarer _Deroplatys sp._. I still don't get how she spotted it.


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## mantisfart2

Great pics mate, first time i have seen a D trigonodera thanks for posting them.


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## Christian

Hi.

The first green ones is not _Amantis_, but some Iridopteryginae, _Hapalopeza_ or something related. The _D. trigonodera_ has an interesting color pattern. I wish the captive ones would be like this, too...


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## revmdn

Great photos. Your brother looks like he's not having fun. :yawn:


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## sufistic

Christian said:


> Hi.
> 
> The first green ones is not _Amantis_, but some Iridopteryginae, _Hapalopeza_ or something related. The _D. trigonodera_ has an interesting color pattern. I wish the captive ones would be like this, too...


Interesting Christian. I'm actually not really sure what species this is but the structure of the head looks similar to _Amantis sp._ Also an ooth one of the females just laid looks very similar to _Amantis sp._ ootheca. Here's a photo of the ooth:








revmdn said:


> Great photos. Your brother looks like he's not having fun. :yawn:


LOL yeah, he was very tired and irritated by the fact that he spotted more stick insects than mantids.


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