# Cross breeding? Reopened with new ideas?



## PrayingMantisPets (Jun 18, 2015)

Hello, I am very sorry for re posting another cross breeding post. 

(I wanted to bring this post back.)


Today my adult female sphodromantis viridis passed away. (Last of my females.) I have one sub adult male left. I was wondering if it is a good idea for a cross breeding? 

A cross breed from a sphodromantis viridis (male) and a sphodromantis gastrica (Female). 

I honestly dont know if it is a good idea to disrupt nature. But, in the wild, does anyone think that a mantis could cross breed by Genus? 



If I do mate the two mantises, I would not sell the nymphs for money. I would sell them for free and try my best to have the lowest cost of shipping there could possibly be. 
(NOT FOR SALE POST! just to let you know)(nymphs will be for learning purposes to understand cross breeding or something like that.)


↓↓↓who knows, I could cross breed a species to this↓↓↓


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## Krissim Klaw (Jun 18, 2015)

I wouldn't do it. I just don't see what the potential gain would be. Even if it works offspring tend to be weaker/sterile. If you feel bad about not letting your adults have a chance to breed you could always try the sales section to see if you can track down what you need or someone hoping to breed but in need of what you have.


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## Domanating (Jun 18, 2015)




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## Alikaren (Jun 18, 2015)

Cross-breeding by genus is impossible. The farthest any animal can go is interspecies, and even then it's very rare.

EDIT: Nevermind, you meant species. There's a strong chance that the offspring will be riddled with genetic impairments, but some could also attain hybrid vigor. I don't really recommend creating these hybrids, but if you choose to, then breed the subsequent offspring for around 5 generations, if they aren't sterile and weak. Selectively pick the hardiest offspring if there will be any. It's a bad idea to circulate the first generation hybrids without any experimentation and in-depth observations beforehand.


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## Hellemose (Jun 20, 2015)

in my eyes crossbreeding is a big no no, sure it sux to be left with a male and no female for it, but heck its not like its an ultra rare hard to get species, besides the problem it can cause with offspring from a crossbreeding, you will also stand with a bunch of nymphs that you cant sell as S. viridis or S. gastrica, and personally i think even if they are closely related, its ruining 2 in their self beautiful species, i see it very very often within the reptile community, especially with certain snakes, sure some the hybrids/crossbreeds are stunning and awesome to look at, but i still find it wrong, and unless they are exceptionally beautiful or contain some powergenes of some sort, they are usually quite hard to sell, i dont see any benefit at all from crossbreeding, only the scary scenario of someone selling Sphrodomantis sp. "crossbreed" wich ends up in a couple of years to be sold as either funny looking S. viridis or gastrica, and then suddenly down the line due to asshats and retarded anti-pet societies like PETA and HSUS, banning all import and cross-border trades, the only Sphrodomantis left in the hobby are some funny looking ones whos ancestors where 2 different species.

So no im against crossbreeding, keep them clean and pure, no need to ruin them by mixing them.


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## LAME (Jun 20, 2015)

Question: Aside from evolution, how did all these different species of mantid come to exist? Somewhere down the line "cross-breeding" had to have happened.

...not saying I support the idea, just pointing out that even in nature it does happen.

However if you DO go through with it... I'd like to see how it goes, regardless of the controversy.


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## Bugmankeith (Jun 24, 2015)

I don't think insects suffer from hybrids, they can mate with siblings without ill effects, it's not like mammals where inbreeding is dangerous and genetic defects can kill.

I hybridized hissing cockroaches and the offspring ended up being healthy and larger than both parents, and not sterile.


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## Hellemose (Jun 24, 2015)

Bugmankeith said:


> I don't think insects suffer from hybrids, they can mate with siblings without ill effects, it's not like mammals where inbreeding is dangerous and genetic defects can kill.
> 
> I hybridized hissing cockroaches and the offspring ended up being healthy and larger than both parents, and not sterile.


Thats true, but my problem with it is when people start selling hybrid/crossbreeds as something they arent, maybe not the one doing the F1, but what about the possible new owners of a bunch of crossbred mantids, then they breed them and sell them as what? down the line you buy something that looks like either 1 or 2 but are a bit off from each, but thinking its either 1 or 2 because thats what you bought it as, if people want to experiment with crossbreeding species, sure, let them some actually turn out to be quite stunning looking individuals, but make sure its not sold as something it isnt down the line.


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## minard734 (Jun 25, 2015)

I bet Stagmomantis floridensis and Stagmomantis carolina are able to mix. Why? Because there is another type of Stagmomantis in FL that people have not mentioned. It is equidistant from S Carolina and S floridensis in features and size both. Don't believe me? PM me. I have pictures. I believe this is one of few NATURALLY occurring hybrids in the wild. I bet it occurs from range expansion, maybe due to climate change.


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## DETHCHEEZ (Jun 26, 2015)

LOL

Not to open up a whole new can of worms

I know everyone was all over my @$$ the last time I brought up the subject

But I'm *ALL FOR IT*

I say if you can get them to breed *Go For It*

What's The Worst Thing That Could Happen???

*THE WORLD ISN'T GOING TO END*

I honestly don't see what the big deal is or why everyone is so against it ???

Personally I Would Love To Have Or To Be The Person To Have Bred a Whole New Sp. Of Mantid That No One Has Ever Seen Before Or Didn't Even Exist Till I Took The Chance To Try &amp; Cross Breed

If you're against cross breeding

Do your research &amp; look up how all the different breeds of pet dogs we have came to exist

Technology cell phones smart phones flat screen TVs pretty much everything wouldn't exist if Some One didn't take a chance or try something new or different or think outside of the "Box"

I'm 100% On Your Side

If You Give It a Shot

&amp;

Are successful please keep me in mind

I Would LOVE To Raise Some Of Your MUTANT Offspring

Just My 2 Cents

PEACE...


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## LAME (Jun 28, 2015)

DETHCHEEZ said:


> LOL
> 
> Not to open up a whole new can of worms
> 
> ...


Lol, see there... Now you have TWO followers ^_^


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## Sticky (Jun 28, 2015)

The Cecropia and Columbia of the Hyalophera family can cross breed. They share some of the same territory in Maine and the northern parts of the US. Sometimes hybrids are found in the wild and had nothing to do with people.


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## mantiseater (Jul 1, 2015)

doooooooo it


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## Mantis Man13 (Jul 4, 2015)

Just my opinion, but cross breed them. You can eventually stabilize the new species and introduce it into the mantis hobby.


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## PrayingMantisPets (Jul 4, 2015)

Mantis Man13 said:


> Just my opinion, but cross breed them. You can eventually stabilize the new species and introduce it into the mantis hobby.


Hmm i will think about that... might be a little too much.


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## PrayingMantisPets (Jul 4, 2015)

*Reminder

This was not to introduce a new species into the hobby just so we have a new species to own. I wanted to learn more about cross breeding and see how successful it is. Also to see if the nymphs will become stronger or weaker with different species. I am still willing to share the species to others who are as interested as I am. (I have no idea to explain it, but i hope everyone understand me) 


First Attempt Cross breeding (7/1/15): 
I have tried to mate them but the male seems to attack the female. My female has two holes in her wing. I placed the female in front of the male and he showed full interest. HE mad a fast walk to her and grabbed her abdomen and it was a big fight! Now when the female sees the male she threatens him.


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## Darkrai283 (Jul 6, 2015)

I will copy and paste my reply on facebook to somebody who asked if cross-breeding was possible:

"Yes, cross breeding is possible within some species of the same genus.


Even when it is successful, the resulting offspring will most often be sterile like the Ligers and Zonkeys, LUCKILY. (more about this at the bottom of my comment)

However, there will be physical barriers such as the shape of the male genitalia not being able to lock onto the female's, males not responding to the female's pheromones, etc.

The obvious problem is genetic incompatibility with one example (out of many, many) being the chromosome numbers. Even if the fertilisation is successful, the embryos can just all die halfway through their development when it reaches a point where a defect kills them.

WITH ALL THIS BEING SAID, we should, as hobbyists of these wonderful insects, promote to preserve 'pure' species like the ones we all breed today and discourage anybody from foolishly hybridising everything. *There have already been disasters before with one example being in Germany where some idiot thought it would be a good idea to cross breed Pseudocreobotra wahlbergii with ocellata... which subsequently messed up most people's stocks when the idiot though it would be a good idea to distribute them to beginners who sold them on as pure species! *

Therefore, for the sake of our hobby, please don't try to attempt hybridisations at all cost!!!"


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## Mantis Man13 (Jul 6, 2015)

Thanks for the info in that case you should still cross breed just don't give them to people. Also, show us some pics if successful.


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## MantidLord (Jul 6, 2015)

Cross breed. Just don't sell them and DON'T RELEASE. Chances are they won't be sterile or survive anyway. But it is possible, apparently, given the above example. I'm a hobbyist but I'm less concerned about what's in culture than what's screwing up the ecosystem.


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## mantisman 230 (Jul 7, 2015)

I would be interested to see if they are capable of crossbreeding. I have always wondered if three particular species in the Hierodula genus could hybridize. The three are membranacea, grandis, and keralensis. All three are very similar in appearance. And they might be subspecies of each other in the first place.


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## Alikaren (Jul 11, 2015)

Could you sedate both mantids, somehow extract a spermatophore from the male by gently massaging and depressing its abdomen, and put that on the female's tip and pray that it'll accept it?


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## Mantis Man13 (Jul 11, 2015)

That would be very dangerous and could result to damage in genitalia. This guy does not have access to professional lab equipment to do that safely Alikaren.


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## PrayingMantisPets (Jul 15, 2015)

Second attempt Breeding will begin today. I will post more updates.


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## Mantis Man13 (Jul 16, 2015)

Ok good luck!


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## PrayingMantisPets (Jul 18, 2015)

Strange behavior of the male. I honestly do not think these two species can mate.

First I place the male on my bed, and then I wait about 5 min until the male is calm and not roaming around. Then I place the female in front of him ( about 8 in. away). The male shows strong interest into her.I get a paint brush and I carefully touch the females abdomen so she walks forward. The male begins to follow her. Then he grabs her abdomen and everything goes crazy. He hangs on to her wings by grabbing them with his raptorial arms.. I waited just a little bit to see if he will make another move to position himself. Instead he tries to nibble on her. I immediately separate them. ??????


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## Alikaren (Jul 19, 2015)

Sounds a little like an attempt at cannibalism. Is your male still a subadult and does it ever 'stalk' prey instead of waiting stationary for it to come into distance?


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## mantisman 230 (Jul 20, 2015)

um, he is trying to breed TWO ADULTS, he knows what he is doing, so perhaps the species just aren't compatible mate


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## PrayingMantisPets (Jul 21, 2015)

They are adults. 

When when a put a moth in his container, its a mixture of buth. sometimes he waits for the moth, sometimes he chases it.


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## Rick (Jul 21, 2015)

PrayingMantisPets said:


> Strange behavior of the male. I honestly do not think these two species can mate.
> 
> First I place the male on my bed, and then I wait about 5 min until the male is calm and not roaming around. Then I place the female in front of him ( about 8 in. away). The male shows strong interest into her.I get a paint brush and I carefully touch the females abdomen so she walks forward. The male begins to follow her. Then he grabs her abdomen and everything goes crazy. He hangs on to her wings by grabbing them with his raptorial arms.. I waited just a little bit to see if he will make another move to position himself. Instead he tries to nibble on her. I immediately separate them. ??????


I've seen that same behavior with countless pairs of the same species. Your female isn't ready. Males will mount and attempt to mate with females of a different species. I've seen Tenodera mount Heirodula, S. carolina males on female Tenodera, and T. sinensis and T. angustipennis mating.


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## mantisman 230 (Jul 21, 2015)

Interesting


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## mantiseater (Jul 22, 2015)

a few years ago I saw male t sinesis with mantis religiosa before in the wild. i collected the female but it got realy fat in captive and my little sister thought it would be a good idea to take it out when i was in school and play with it. She ended up droping it and its abdomen burst.


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## mantisman 230 (Jul 22, 2015)




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## DETHCHEEZ (Jul 24, 2015)

This is why you shouldn't cross breed or mess with Mother Nature

'Cause something like this might happen

LOL

"Mantis X Centipede"


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## Mantis Man13 (Jul 24, 2015)

Lol


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## DETHCHEEZ (Jul 25, 2015)

Mantis Man13 said:


> Lol


It Tried To Eat My Face Off...


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## DETHCHEEZ (Jul 25, 2015)

Alikaren said:


> Could you sedate both mantids, somehow extract a spermatophore from the male by gently massaging and depressing its abdomen, and put that on the female's tip and pray that it'll accept it?


SORRY I'll Just Go Ahead &amp; Apologize For My Comment Right Off The Bat

But if you Roofie a mantid &amp; jerk it off

You HAVE TO Post a Vid

LOL


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## Sticky (Jul 26, 2015)

That picture must be photoshopped!


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## DETHCHEEZ (Jul 26, 2015)

Sticky said:


> That picture must be photoshopped!


No NOT Photoshopped

"Super Glued"

LOL

https://www.facebook.com/gaff.enstein


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