# Praying Mantids Keeping Aliens



## admin

Go to Elytra and Antenna for Invertebrates-Magazine and books on inverts including Praying Mantids Keeping Aliens.

http://www.elytraandantenna.com


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## Rick

If you don't have this book yet I recommend picking up a copy.


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## captainmerkin

ahh found it... took a while but ordered for less than a tenner  

http://www.nhbs.com/praying_mantids_keepin...fno_134548.html


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## jfmantis

I just bought a copy of this book (thanks to this topic), and it is great. Although it is only 40 pages, it is very informative. I could go on forever about how good it is, but I won't. I reccomend this book to everybody.


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## anjeanette

FYI...I found a copy of this book on Ebay for super cheap...The seller copies &amp; laminates them (probably totally illegal, but I'm not going to tell), so if you want a cheap paperback version, might try there!


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## Malnra

Ento Girl said:


> FYI...I found a copy of this book on Ebay for super cheap...The seller copies &amp; laminates them (probably totally illegal, but I'm not going to tell), so if you want a cheap paperback version, might try there!


says the person who sells them .. LOL


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## collinchang635

Anyone know if you can get this in Malaysia from a book shop or something? :huh:


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## MANTIS DUDE

sounds like a good book B)


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## CockroachYet

- Hello Orin, this new edition have updates in their information added to the past edited book? actually i have the another first edition of this book.

- Thanks, regards. Roberto.


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## Orin

CockroachYet said:


> - Hello Orin, this new edition have updates in their information added to the past edited book? actually i have the another first edition of this book.- Thanks, regards. Roberto.


Hi Roberto,

The new edition includes more species, four more pages including two color plates, and some minor edits but the general information on keeping mantids hasn't changed.

Thanks,

Orin


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## cloud jaguar

My wife received this book from bugsincyberspace.com and we have both read it. It is great! This is a fairly small book but packed with info. There is much information about all aspects of keeping mantids.

~Arkanis


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## PhilinYuma

Rick:

Did something happen to this thread? Did a couple of hundred entries get lost or something? You made the first post recommending the book 3 years and one month ago and there are only three posts from people who actually bought the book, including one person who said that it is GREAT, while one person advertised a bootleg (ripped off, stolen, Feloniously Fabricated) copy on Ebay. Someone beat me to reporting that.

I am not suggesting that experienced members of this forum buy the book; obviously you already have. What you have saved by successfully raising your mantids and producing large hatches will have more than paid for the book by now. Not only does it tell you all that you need to know about basic maintenance, it also gives advanced tips. Is your male reluctant to mate? This book will solve your problem (Orin: I am thinking of renting a second apartment as a "bachelor pad"). Want to know the best way to store ooths? You will find the "no maintenance, tested and copyright" method only in this book. Perhaps, though, you might want to buy a second copy for a friend.

To newbies like me: Buy this book now. It will provide the groundwork on which the questions on this forum are based and save you from asking questions that have been answered a dozen times already. I have bought all of the small number of "hobbyist" books on mantises, and this is far and away the best out there.

One final thought. Those of us who enjoy this forum for free often forget that its existence depends on the hard work and financial investment of a very few. Buy the book at www.bugsincyberspace.com so that your purchase provides most benefit to the forum, tell everyone how great it is on this thread and go to amazon.com and write a glowing review there.

The Great Mantis Goddess will bless you and your charges.


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## revmdn

Does anyone have the ISBN # for this book? I don't see it anywhere.


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## PhilinYuma

revmdn said:


> Does anyone have the ISBN # for this book? I don't see it anywhere.


ISBN 978-0-9802401-1-5


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## revmdn

Thank you.


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## nasty bugger

Planning on getting this book, along with a mantis, but have to wait till I'm sure I'll be around to recieve it and get the bugger in where it's warm.

I have some fairly recently hatchlings that I'd like to read up on and know what to and not to do, but I don't want the two seperate shipments, so I'm going to have to let nature take it's course, for now.

I'm wondering all sorts of stuff that come from raising fish a while back, like seems not long ago, but was around sixteen years or so back, how time flies... :huh: 

For now I'll have to settle for watching them 'train' at pouncing and sparring with each other  

Was thinking about giving some to family for Christmas, but nobody seems to love the little mantis'  

My week and a halfers have already molted, and seem to have a 'kick rocks pops' attitude, while they were so 'daddy' when they were younger. I'm gonna miss the babies...


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## jacksun

Just received this book from Peter at bugsincyberspace.com and this is definitely a solid reference book to keep handy, I'm on my second read through. This is one of those books you buy "for the content, not just the pictures", but having said that the pictures are very impressive.

Wherever you are in the world, order this from Peter and he will get it to you ASAP, but if you are outside the US, you'll have to email him requesting the book and he'll send you an email Paypal invoice, their site doesn't handle international orders automagically


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## agent A

I gotta get my hands on a copy!


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## Mr.Mantid

Great reference book!


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## Chief Tom

Gotta get this, thanks!


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## alephhat

I paid about $15.00 for this book and was dissappointed. It is nice book to look through and has a few nice pictures and some nice fairly common info, but I found that there was a distinct lack of good data. Plenty of information that most hobbyists (esp. breeders) would already know. I'm not sure of the timeline, as this book may have defined the hobby for its time, but as stands there is far more up to date information online. What really needs to be written is the specifics and data: specifics of sexing by species and instar, temperatures and humidity for enclosures, identification of species and ooths, seive sizes and materials for enclosures and raising feeder insects, chemistry and pro's and con's of substrate materials and molding potential of building materials, incubation temperatures, gestation times, life expectancy, etc etc etc.... Some of this is lightly touched on, but most of it is clearly absent.


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## Orin

alephhat said:


> Plenty of information that most hobbyists (esp. breeders) would already know.


 I imagine people who already know everything and have been breeding mantids wouldn't learn a lot from a small guide book, it is only 44 pages. Unfortunately all the proprietary information in the book has been turned into common banter on the internet as source info is rarely, if ever, credited. Still most people appreciate the book for what it is, a hobbyist guide written by mantis breeders for mantis hobbyists who don't already know everything and prefer not to spend hours and hours wading through conflicting message board posts or caresheets most often written by people who've never bred the species they list. The cost of the book (I imagine you're including shipping since the book doesn't retail for as much as you say you paid) is for the cover, color plates, and assembly in the USA. Praying Mantids Keeping Aliens is also the only thing that paid to keep mantidforum running till a few years ago.


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## weathmatth

Just bought a copy, hurry up delivery man lool


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## ninjaboy1988

I don't get an allowance. Only birthday money and odd jobs. I need to know if this book is worth it before I spend half my money. I need other peoples reviews and opinions.


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## Aussiemantislover

You know, i don't really like the title of this book. 'Keeping Aliens' Why are they the Aliens? On the Evolutionary scale WE'RE the newcomers, they've been on planet Earth longer than us so compared to us this is THEIR land.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to hopefully getting this book and reading it :lol:


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## kmsgameboy

I recieved this book in the mail today. I really wasnt expecting to learn anything new from it but thought it would be nice to have mantid rearing information that was easy to access and didnt require taking the time to search the internet. Part of me also felt that since this is _the_ book on keeping mantids I should own it just to show my love and suport for the hobby. I have to say I was suprised to find this little book packed with lots of little useful tips and facts that I did not know. Keeping Aliens truely is a must have for anyone who wants to raise mantids. I only wish more people would follow in Orins foot steps and write more books on these wonderful creatures!


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## fleurdejoo

I just ordered this book. Can't wait to get it.


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## Orin

Aussiemantislover said:


> 'Keeping Aliens' Why are they the Aliens? On the Evolutionary scale WE'RE the newcomers, they've been on planet Earth longer than us so compared to us this is THEIR land.


 It's all about perspective. You're arguing the point of view of a mantis but you're probably a human. Besides, assuming anything existing at the same time can be older or newer on the evolutionary scale is a fallacy. If you believe in the evolutionary scale all life has the same beginnings and is just as ancient. Also, most or all modern mantis species would be younger than the human species since their reproductive method results in much faster speciation.


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## Martzilla

I bought this book and read it cover to cover and was very pleased by the amount of great info in it. It basically has a lot of the info available on this forum (plus a few extras) in one place. This should not be underestimated! It's nice to have a reference physically in front of you.


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## Joe2137

Haven't got one yet but they look interesting so I might get one.


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## zack4211

does this book refer to any of the more exotic species like I. Diabolica or G. Gongylodes cause that would be a little more useful- and does it have care sheets for most mantids?


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## angelofdeathzz

Yes it does, Great book it dabbles in a little of everything and all different species. I mean if your a expert you'll know most of it already but if not, buy it and learn a few things.


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## zack4211

angelofdeathzz said:


> Yes it does, Great book it dabbles in a little of everything and all different species. I mean if your a expert you'll know most of it already but if not, buy it and learn a few things.


good cause i need to read up a little before your ooth hatches hoping it will soon


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## angelofdeathzz

Orin's book I think is intended for the basics plus a little more, if you want a in depth read on Idolo then this link is probably the best on the planet, Sporeworld, myself, and many other spent some time writing down what we learned...(but yes it's a long read, lol)

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=21061&amp;st=0


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## Mantiskid

CockroachYet said:


> - Hello Orin, this new edition have updates in their information added to the past edited book? actually i have the another first edition of this book.
> 
> - Thanks, regards. Roberto.


OMG you and I have the same name!!!


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## Mantiskid

I have this book and it's awesome, with a lot of nice pics too. Only thing I would suggest is a little more info on housing options (the book only really talks about deli cups as housing; nothing on planted terrariums, net cages, etc., etc.,), and a little more on Ooth sizes of different species, and how many Ooths females of each species typically lay. It is a good book though, and I've added it to my list of "books essential to mantidkeeping."


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## Meadow98684

Amazon has the book too I think.


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## Chaos_Warrior

Hi, can anyone let me know what species this is please ? and whether it's a pregnant female. Was found in Idaho.


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## Peter Clausen

Totally in the wrong topic, but that's Mantis religiosa. I'll wait to delete this message so that the author of the book (and forum moderator "Orin") gets another bit of publicity.

She's looking pretty pregnant to me, and 'tis the season.


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## Orin

I'm working on a new version of the book which will be completely rewritten and have a different title. The old keeping aliens book format is limited due to its construction and production so it could never be truly expanded or revised even if the font were smaller (people complain sometimes about the tiny font in the keeping aliens book but the other option was to cut out large sections of the text). Due to some very recent changes this one should not only be in large format and full-color, but also hardcover. Most of the text had to be deleted and most photos can't be reused because they are too small (the original files were okay but I only have the small file used in the text for many of them, which is far too small). Of course it will be an entirely different book but there may be a few familiar sentences or photos. I'm hoping to involve mantidforum members who may be interested in adding to the book in the way of photos or short info on some species I've never kept or species I have not so great photos of. I'll be posting particulars when I get far enough, maybe a few weeks or months. I've always wanted to put together a large format book on mantids but simple economic realities (including my wife and daughters requirement of food and housing being a higher priority than sinking all my paychecks from work into a big mantis book shaped hole) previously made it unrealistic.


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## Elo500

Just getting started with mantids and was going to buy the alien book when I read Orin's post about working on a new book. Any updates on availability for the new version?


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## Orin

The new book will be hardcover, full-color, 202 pages and probably available for preorder on Amazon in 2 weeks.


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## Orin

This should be what the final cover looks like.


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## Paradoxica

Count me in!


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## Sticky

Yes me too. It looks good.


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## Orin

Most of the information and 2/3rds of the photos are mine but there's input and images from a ton of different forum members so the new book is officially the unofficial mantidforum book. I'd list everyone but I'd hate to miss someone or make a list that seems to be in the wrong order. However, all contributions are labeled clearly so it's easy to see every source.


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## Digger

Orin; enjoyed your book immensly. Cursory overview but enough useful detail for relative newcomers. It's on my bed table now!

Digger


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## glock34girl

Orin said:


> Most of the information and 2/3rds of the photos are mine but there's input and images from a ton of different forum members so the new book is officially the unofficial mantidforum book. I'd list everyone but I'd hate to miss someone or make a list that seems to be in the wrong order. However, all contributions are labeled clearly so it's easy to see every source.


Hi -

I was just going to buy this.... are the updates large enough that i should wait to buy the new one?


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## Orin

glock34girl- the new book is large format 8 x 10, almost a coffee table book and the updates are extensive, it is 98% new and 10 times as long. The old booklet is 5 x 8.5 and mostly black and white. Since this version is full color and relatively huge the price will be a bit more so it depends if you're looking for a quick guide or more extensive resource.


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## sally

i can't wait !


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## angelofdeathzz

I purchased the soft cover copy from Peter(bugsincyberspace.com)well over a year ago and it was full of very useful info, so I'm looking forward to this one!

When you asked me about my photos I thought you meant for this forum, but you wanted them for the book? Just curious, did any make it in?


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## glock34girl

Well there is only one reasonable thing to do when you can't decide on a single item... buy them both. :gunsmilie:


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## glock34girl

Will there be a Kindle Version?


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## Orin

glock34girl said:


> Will there be a Kindle Version?


I think there's a lot of soft copy mantis info presently available so a kindle version wasn't in the original plans. There actually will be two hardcopy versions, a more expensive softcover that employs a premium color print process and a less expensive hardcover that is also in color but uses a more recent tech that's less expensive but of standard quality.


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## Sticky

Look at it this way, Paper books are good. They dont require battery power!


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## glock34girl

Darn! I was looking for an excuse to buy an iPad.


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## Elo500

Any plans on updating ghosts of the trees from 2002?


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## Orin

Elo500 said:


> Any plans on updating ghosts of the trees from 2002?


No, just whipspiders.


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## angelofdeathzz

Here's to wishing you all the best on the new book, don't forget to let us know when we can get our hands on a copy.


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## yen_saw

Orin said:


> This should be what the final cover looks like.


Sweet! Looking forward to it.

Could you share the table of content too?


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## Orin

INTRODUCTION

MAN AND THE PRAYING MANTIS

MANTIDS AND THEIR RELATIVES

MANTIS BIOLOGY

MANTIS BEHAVIOR

HABITAT CONSIDERATIONS

HEALTH ISSUES

MATING

OOTHECAE

THE PREYING MANTIS 101

USA MANTIDS

EXOTIC MANTIDS

GLOSSARY

BIBLIOGRAPHY


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## sally

Digger said:


> Orin; enjoyed your book immensly. Cursory overview but enough useful detail for relative newcomers. It's on my bed table now!
> 
> Digger


haha thats where my mantid books are


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## glock34girl

Just ordered the softcover to get a leg up and will be ordering the hard cover as soon as we know when it's available! My new ghosts are so cool but I am already wondering about so many things! Lol


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## jamurfjr

I still have and value my first edition of "Keeping Aliens". I'm also excited to hear about the new, more comprehensive book and intend to pre-order.


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## Orin

I got my copy. I grabbed the softcover for my collection since the photo quality is better and paper thicker though the hardcover is less expensive. Hopefully it will be up for preorder on amazon in the next few days.


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## Sticky

It looks great! I am watching amazon for it like a hawk.


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## Orin

Sticky said:


> It looks great! I am watching amazon for it like a hawk.


BE CAREFUL. The version up right now is the premium print paperback, the hardcover should be $10 cheaper and is probably the one you'd want. When the listing for both is complete the paperback and hardcover will be options on the same listing.

http://www.amazon.com/Keeping-Praying-Mantis-Mantodean-Reproduction/dp/1616461659/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1361028740&amp;sr=8-2&amp;keywords=keeping+the+praying+mantis


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## Sticky

I believe you get what you pay for. The paperback is the better book, I will buy that even tho it cost more. I am glad there is a new mantis book out. It is needed very much. There are a afew really tarantula but not many mantid books.


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## Mantiskid

Is there a difference between the hardbound and paperback version of keeping aliens?


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## Orin

Mantiskid said:


> Is there a difference between the hardbound and paperback version of keeping aliens?


*Keeping Aliens* is the old, small book. There were two versions, both small paperbacks. one from 2001, the other 2008. It is very small and mostly black and white.

*Keeping the Praying Mantis* is a new book, related and with a few shared photos and lines but almost entirely different. This is a relatively monstrous book which will come in hardcover or paperback. The paperback is ready to ship from Amazon and costs 49.95, the hardcover should be up as an option in a few days. It should be 39.95. Both versions are the same book and both are in color but the paperback version is more expensive because the color process is higher quality and the paper thicker.


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## glock34girl

Ordered! Yeah! Now... How do I get the autograph?


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## TheOtherSpecies

glock34girl said:


> Ordered! Yeah! Now... How do I get the autograph?


Groupie! lol Jokes!


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## glock34girl

TheOtherSpecies said:


> Groupie! lol Jokes!


 you know it!


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## Orin

glock34girl said:


> Ordered! Yeah! Now... How do I get the autograph?


I'll be at some sort of bug conference in Michigan in a few weeks. Otherwise you could put some ink on the forelegs of a mantis and put a pastic fly on the cover page?


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## Orin

The hardcover is now listed.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1616461667


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## glock34girl

Got it! Woo hoo! Looks amazing! Can't wait to scribble all in it and put post-it's and highlight


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## jamurfjr

Received my copy today—an early b'day present. Only had a short time to sit down with it. Initial impressions were very good. Enjoyed the first chapter and the photos viewed.

Edited to add: Should have specified that I received the new book, _Keeping the Praying Mantis_. Already owned _Keeping Aliens_.


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## angelofdeathzz

Where in Michigan, and when, I would like to meet you and yeah maybe have you sign one for me bud.  

PM me if you would rather.


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## Orin

The conference was in Ypsilanti but it was a month ago now.


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## angelofdeathzz

Well thats what I get for being a late reader...


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## Coneja

Just received a copy of this latest book, hardcover edition. Very excited to delve further into the depths of mantis husbandry! So many pictures and so much more detail than was able to fit in _Keeping Aliens _(which was a great book to start with). Thank you very much for the time you put into your books, Orin!


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## ladygigi

Orin said:


> INTRODUCTION
> 
> MAN AND THE PRAYING MANTIS
> 
> MANTIDS AND THEIR RELATIVES
> 
> MANTIS BIOLOGY
> 
> MANTIS BEHAVIOR
> 
> HABITAT CONSIDERATIONS
> 
> HEALTH ISSUES
> 
> MATING
> 
> OOTHECAE
> 
> THE PREYING MANTIS 101
> 
> USA MANTIDS
> 
> EXOTIC MANTIDS
> 
> GLOSSARY
> 
> BIBLIOGRAPHY


Well, this book sounded interesting, but I was rather nonchalant about it :mellow: until I saw this Table of Contents of yours at which point I realized I have to get this book!!  It was like once I read the Table of Contents I said to myself 'Wow, this looks like a really good book. It's got a lot of really neat stuff in it.' :tt1: I no longer felt very nonchalant about it, but rather excited and enthused! I will definitely be getting this asap! Don't know when that will be, but I'm gonna get one! (Since I've been disabled, my income doesn't even allow me to buy groceries. I live off the food bank and churches, so extra money is really hard to come by.) I'm going to be selling some of my Iris Oratorias, maybe I'll be able to get the money that way. (If I don't need feeders or something else of higher priority.) Anyway, on a last note, it looks terrific, like you did a bang up job! :clap: :rockon:


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## Orin

ladygigi said:


> I'm going to be selling some of my Iris Oratorias, maybe I'll be able to get the money that way. (If I don't need feeders or something else of higher priority.)


I'd be interested in trading a book for a pair or two of _Phileurus truncatus _(maybe even illatus) which aren't too rare a find in Arizona. They come to lights at night.

Coneja Thanks!


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## ScienceGirl

Orin, what is the difference between the two books? Does the latest released one have updated and better information? Would someone lose information if they bought the newly released book, but not the one published a while ago?


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## Orin

Keeping Aliens was originally published in 2001 while Keeping the Praying Mantis came out a few months ago. The new, big book is much longer and has far more species. It is more detailed, current, and full color. The two are very different but I'd certainly suggest the new text book over the old booklet.


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## thalassarche

Orin, I just got my copy of Keeping the Praying Mantis, and I'm really enjoying it as an accessible and informative read.


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## ScienceGirl

Orin said:


> Keeping Aliens was originally published in 2001 while Keeping the Praying Mantis came out a few months ago. The new, big book is much longer and has far more species. It is more detailed, current, and full color. The two are very different but I'd certainly suggest the new text book over the old booklet.


Okay, thank you.

Do you have a date for when the cheaper copy will come out? And maybe a tentative price?


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## Orin

Thanks thelassarche!



ScienceGirl said:


> Okay, thank you.
> 
> Do you have a date for when the cheaper copy will come out? And maybe a tentative price?


The big book is already available in a less expensive hardcover or a slightly more expensive premium softcover with premium print and heavy paper stock. These have been available since February, 2013 (Amazon, BIC, Barnes &amp; Noble, etc.).


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## ScienceGirl

I want it so badly, but it is almost $40! *sigh* . . . maybe for Christmas. Hoping that it will go on sale later...

I have honey bees to support.


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## ScienceGirl

Orin said:


> Thanks thelassarche!
> 
> The big book is already available in a less expensive hardcover or a slightly more expensive premium softcover with premium print and heavy paper stock. These have been available since February, 2013 (Amazon, BIC, Barnes &amp; Noble, etc.).


BIC? What is that? I've never seen or heard of one. . .


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## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> BIC? What is that? I've never seen or heard of one. . .


I think it's an acronym for Bugs in Cyberspace.


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## sschind

Orin said:


> BE CAREFUL. The version up right now is the premium print paperback, the hardcover should be $10 cheaper and is probably the one you'd want. When the listing for both is complete the paperback and hardcover will be options on the same listing.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Keeping-Praying-Mantis-Mantodean-Reproduction/dp/1616461659/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1361028740&amp;sr=8-2&amp;keywords=keeping+the+praying+mantis


I think this is one of the greatest posts I have ever read. I'm not sure if Orin makes more on the softcover book, heck, he may even make more on the hardcover one for all I know but when was the last time you ever heard of anyone promoting the cheaper version of what they are selling.

I know I have his Invertebrates for exhibition book on my want list but I see he has given the whipscorpions, millipedes and beetles (along with the mantids) the supersize treatments. I'm going to need a lot more holidays to ask for presents. I'll probablu go with the mantids first.


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## Pizzaparlor45

Orin said:


> This should be what the final cover looks like.


I have that new Keeping the Praying Mantis book and it is excellent reading, I recommend picking up a copy if you can. Wonderful Pictures and very informative. Although there is no information about my favorite species of mantis: Griffin Mantis.  That is just minor nit-picking, I love the book Great job Orin.


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## Synapze

Keeping Aliens is a must read for those new to the hobby! I read it in one sitting and plan to read it again and reference often.


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## Mantid-Tim

I purchased Orin's second book and couldn't be happier with it. It was so informative and packed to the brim with great and useful information. I would recommend to anyone looking for a great source of knowledge on all things praying mantis!


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