# Seizures?



## agent A (Jul 8, 2009)

My european mantis died today, but last night he looked like he was having a seizure. I don't know what happened there.


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## idolomantis (Jul 8, 2009)

HUH what? i never heard of a mantis having a seizure..

What happened to him, go in the details .. what did you see?


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## agent A (Jul 8, 2009)

idol0mantis said:


> HUH what? i never heard of a mantis having a seizure..What happened to him, go in the details .. what did you see?


He was on the floor of the cage, and he was quivering like he was kissing the floor of the cage rapidly.


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## ABbuggin (Jul 8, 2009)

It was just dieing.


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## agent A (Jul 8, 2009)

why does this happen to a random L4 or L5 male mantis nymph I have every once in a while?! I was planning on giving that mantis away!!!


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## d17oug18 (Jul 8, 2009)

agent A said:


> why does this happen to a random L4 or L5 male mantis nymph I have every once in a while?! I was planning on giving that mantis away!!!


i dont know if you remember this but mantis have 2 brains, what your seeing is the second brain dieing(the bodies brain). Or it could just be ramdom movements lol.


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## kakistos (Jul 8, 2009)

d17oug18 said:


> i dont know if you remember this but mantis have 2 brains, what your seeing is the second brain dieing(the bodies brain). Or it could just be ramdom movements lol.


They do not have two brains, that's just nonsense.

It was just dying... unsynchronized firing of dying neurons resulting in involuntairy movements without direction. It happens a lot when mantids die.


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## agent A (Jul 9, 2009)

kakistos said:


> They do not have two brains, that's just nonsense.It was just dying... unsynchronized firing of dying neurons resulting in involuntairy movements without direction. It happens a lot when mantids die.


They have 2 brains. How can a male mate with a female if he looses his head? He can't unless he has another brain to keep him alive! Without a brain the body can't function.


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## jameslongo (Jul 9, 2009)

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Gosh! Some people talk out of their arse! &lt;_&lt; Insects have brains in their heads but they also have neuronal clumps in each segment of their body called ganglia. Ganglia are like pseudo-brains, in layman's terms. Thus, although decapitation essentially means the insect will die, they still have electrochemical signals being conducted within the body, as Kakistos mentioned earlier. In fact, some research states that decapitating a mating male abolishes its inhibitory signals, thus making it a dedicated lover.  Also, I had a case where a female ate a male &amp; the tip of the male's abdomen was still squirming even though that was the only thing remaining of him :blink: So, pish-posh to the '2 brain theory.'

Ever seen an allegedy dead fish skip around on the barbie? Electrochemical signalling. It's very dead


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## agent A (Jul 9, 2009)

A second brain keeps the body functioning long enough for the male to transfer a few spermetaphores (sacks full of sperm, dissection reveals egg like things inside the male's abdomen) into the female. The second brain begins to function when the other brain shuts down (in the case of the female eating it) and can keep the male going for over 16 hours.


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## jameslongo (Jul 9, 2009)

agent A said:


> A second brain keeps the body functioning long enough for the male to transfer a few spermetaphores (sacks full of sperm, dissection reveals egg like things inside the male's abdomen) into the female. The second brain begins to function when the other brain shuts down (in the case of the female eating it) and can keep the male going for over 16 hours.


YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!

What sources you are using? Not your arse I hope?


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## Katnapper (Jul 9, 2009)

Alex, it's true. You do not know what you are talking about. And furthermore, most of the statements and advice I have seen you give are not only incorrect, they are dreadfully incorrect. But you insist on thinking you know it all. Your unsound statements are not just annoying; I think they mar the credibility of this forum. I wish you would take your unsubstantiated advice and pretentious attitude to your own forum, not here.


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## superfreak (Jul 9, 2009)

agent a, before this turns any more heated, i recommend you read james' first post again, else find an entomology book not aimed at primary-schoolers. if youre going to make statements like that i recommend referencing them.


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## jameslongo (Jul 9, 2009)

Katnapper said:


> Alex, it's true. You do not know what you are talking about. And furthermore, most of the statements and advice I have seen you give are not only incorrect, they are dreadfully incorrect. But you insist on thinking you know it all. Your unsound statements are not just annoying; I think they mar the credibility of this forum. I wish you would take your unsubstantiated advice and pretentious attitude to your own forum, not here.


*standing ovation*


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## ABbuggin (Jul 10, 2009)

Katnapper said:


> Alex, it's true. You do not know what you are talking about. And furthermore, most of the statements and advice I have seen you give are not only incorrect, they are dreadfully incorrect. But you insist on thinking you know it all. Your unsound statements are not just annoying; I think they mar the credibility of this forum. I wish you would take your unsubstantiated advice and pretentious attitude to your own forum, not here.


I've been wanting to say the same thing, but didn't know how to say it. Don't think it could of been said better than how Kat did. B)


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## Katnapper (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm sorry if I've hurt your feelings, Alex... that is not my intention. But I have tried to be nice, supportive, and give you direction for learning here. And you've been asked to research your information before posting things as fact. But you continue to keep posting off-the-wall and downright bad "information," and I've had enough. :angry:


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## bassist (Jul 10, 2009)

Katnapper said:


> I'm sorry if I've hurt your feelings, Alex... that is not my intention. But I have tried to be nice, supportive, and give you direction for learning here. And you've been asked to research your information before posting things as fact. But you continue to keep posting off-the-wall and downright bad "information," and I've had enough. :angry:


Let's just hope your post isn't deleted :&gt;


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## ABbuggin (Jul 10, 2009)

bassist said:


> Let's just hope your post isn't deleted :&gt;


I doubt it will, this forum isn't like a few other ones that I frequent where it seems that Nazis run the place. &lt;_&lt;


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## d17oug18 (Jul 10, 2009)

i would like it to be known that i just repeated what i heard on TV lol i have no research at all and thank you for correcting my ignorance. I understood what jameslongo said and glad to hear it. I know what i say is new born advice lol and ill try to keep my mouth shut when i dont know something from personal expierence, i just like being active in the forum ^_^


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## agent A (Jul 14, 2009)

I just think that that is a logical explination for a second brain.


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## idolomantis (Jul 14, 2009)

If i were you i'd ask for the reality.


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## superfreak (Jul 15, 2009)

idol0mantis said:


> If i were you i'd ask for the reality.


*claps*

it does seem like alex is living in his dream world, where bullies are shamed on internet forums and things with bilateral symmetry and a directional sensory cluster have two brains.... do the unicorns there eat rainbows and poop butterflies?


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## d17oug18 (Jul 15, 2009)

superfreak said:


> *claps*it does seem like alex is living in his dream world, where bullies are shamed on internet forums and things with bilateral symmetry and a directional sensory cluster have two brains.... do the unicorns there eat rainbows and poop butterflies?


Im the one that started on the "2 brain" idea, which i thought was true becuase thats what all TV shows and insect books say(not the mantis book), i repeated only what was published lol oh well, i realize you guys arent talking about me just sayin its easy to confuse the 2 brain idea, thats what i thought until this thread.


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## PhilinYuma (Jul 16, 2009)

Well, that'll teach me to go on vacation. Look at the fun I've been missing!

Insects have a nerve cord that stretches from the front of the head capsule (tentorium) to close to the tip of the abdomen. They don't have a "brain" in the sense that mamals, or any other vertebrates, have one, but at intervals along the cord are a series of nerve centers or ganglia. At the front tip of the chord are three fused ganglia called the brain, solely by analogy to the brain of a vertebrate.

The head consists of six (or seven according to some sources) fused segments, and the brain serves the first three of these, which include the eyes and the antennae. The nerve cord then passes round the tubular esophagus and broadens into three more fused ganglia, called the subesophageal ganglion, still in the tentorium, which serve the other three segments. Since both fused sets of ganglia occupy the tentorium and each serves three segments of the head, I can see, Doug, how someone on TV might have called the subesophogeal ganglion a "second brain."

Alas, though, Alex, when a male loses its head, it loses both "brains," so your theory is stillborn. Also, as Superfreak as pointed out in the past, loss of the brain "disinhibits" (cf) the male's copulatory urge, and he can remain in copulation for hours after losing his head. As you grow older, you will learn that even the human brain can inhibit the act of insemination and is part of something called "stamina."

I rooted around and found a nice little article on the nervous sytem for you. When you click on a word printed in blue in the text, the apropriate part of the nervous system lights up. Is that cool or what?

http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/course/ent425/tut...l/nerves.html#2

Look particularly at the last paragraph, on the stomodaeal nervous system.


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## revmdn (Jul 16, 2009)

Good to have ya back Phil, I needed that.


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## Ghozt (Jan 28, 2010)

Most Insects do have 2 brains ! Do some reading on google. its interesting... A good example are roaches... I seen it on discovery channle 1ce !


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## PhilinYuma (Jan 28, 2010)

Ghozt said:


> Most Insects do have 2 brains ! Do some reading on google. its interesting... A good example are roaches... I seen it on discovery channle 1ce !


Personally, I'm more inclined to go with the nice old guy who wrote that brilliant post #24. He even gives a URL for a website written in Grownup that identifies the "second brain" as the subesophageal ganglion. Perhaps, in yr eagerness to tell us about the discovery channel program, you missed it. Warmly recommended.


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## Ghozt (Jan 28, 2010)

agent A said:


> My european mantis died today, but last night he looked like he was having a seizure. I don't know what happened there.


My budwing did this wierd headbanging thing for like 1 min the other day.. then was weak when it woke up out of that trance....

been fine ever since


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## Opivy (Jan 29, 2010)

agent A said:


> I just think that that is a logical explination for a second brain.


Alex dude... Take the advice! It will do you good to just listen for once instead of trying to give your posts credibility. It seems like you always have to come back with a rebuttal of some sort.


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## PhilinYuma (Jan 29, 2010)

Opivy said:


> Alex dude... Take the advice! It will do you good to just listen for once instead of trying to give your posts credibility. It seems like you always have to come back with a rebuttal of some sort.


Guess I should point out, Opivy -- before Alex does! -- that like a number of us, you overlooked the fact that new member Ghozt "resurrected" a number of old posts, today. Alex's comment was, in fact made last July.

Yes, I know


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## Opivy (Jan 29, 2010)

Ohh! My apologies. I noticed that he's been better with what I mentioned - I thought it started again.

BAD GHOZT!!!


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## Katnapper (Jan 29, 2010)

Opivy said:


> Ohh! My apologies. I noticed that he's been better with what I mentioned - I thought it started again.BAD GHOZT!!!


It's the Ghost of Alex Past.


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 29, 2010)

Hey Phil, thanks for the help, don't know what I would do without you!


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## massaman (Jan 29, 2010)

I do believe agent a does need a mentor to help him but thats beyond my expertise!


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## Opivy (Jan 29, 2010)

LMAO! @Katnapper


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## agent A (Jan 29, 2010)

massaman said:


> I do believe agent a does need a mentor to help him


I have a group therapist I see every Friday, that's where I've been since my post in the topic aabout that grass mantis.


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## Rick (Jan 30, 2010)

massaman said:


> I do believe agent a does need a mentor to help him but thats beyond my expertise!


I would say it is.


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## Katnapper (Jan 30, 2010)

Rick said:


> I would say it is.


Double +1


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