# Bent abdomen post molt



## Qualia (Apr 23, 2011)

Hi I've not posted before but read/lurk and have had mantids as pets in another life(early 90's).

I have what I suspect are 3 Chinese mantids that hatched Dec 16th 2010(wasn't expecting that long story). They are now on their 8th or 9th instar. Well one shed while I was out of town this past Wednsday and its abdomen is creased in the back.In other words when hanging the abdomen does a sharp bend as if wounded, not a natural curl that is by their control. When upside down it flops.

I will take a photo of this as soon as I upload my too full camera(am out of space to take another pic).

He/She ate despite this disturbing affliction. I suspect while I was gone my dh put a too thick(wrong!) foam in *her* enclosure causing her to shed incorrectly but he's not sure.

My question is has anyone else has had this happen and were they able to heal next instar? The periods between sheds seems to be increasing, so she/he could be in this state for awhile and I'm worried sick as I'm very attached to them and have named them all.

Is it a good sign that she/he ate?

Any thoughts appreciated.

Fingers crossed for my Audax.


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## PhilinYuma (Apr 23, 2011)

Any mantis named Audax deserves to do well! This is a very common problem with Chinese mantids, and I don't think that "dh"(lol!) is to blame. If he/she is eating -- does the abdomen straighten out fro a while after the meal? -- OK it doesn't sound as though the problem is too severe and may go away with the molt to adult. Keep us posted, and give dh a hug!


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 23, 2011)

Not to hard though.


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## kbfprivate (Jul 10, 2011)

Qualia said:


> Hi I've not posted before but read/lurk and have had mantids as pets in another life(early 90's).
> 
> I have what I suspect are 3 Chinese mantids that hatched Dec 16th 2010(wasn't expecting that long story). They are now on their 8th or 9th instar. Well one shed while I was out of town this past Wednsday and its abdomen is creased in the back.In other words when hanging the abdomen does a sharp bend as if wounded, not a natural curl that is by their control. When upside down it flops.
> 
> ...


Any updates on your mantis? Did s/he survive the bent abdomen? Mine has that issue now and I'm slightly concerned. I took him out of his cage and he was just as active as normal, so it seems he doesn't mind it at all but it looks bad to me.


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## Krissim Klaw (Jul 10, 2011)

This is a somewhat common problem in Chinese mantids, at least in the hobby, not sure about wild mantises. I have a theory it has something to do with them moving too early after molts. This species is known to skitter about. I had it happen to one of my boys.

None of my Chinese have ever shed straight from the top of their cages, they all chosen the walls. I've only once had a mantis with this problem and noticed he had climbed up on the ceiling of his cage shortly after molting to hang. I caught his next few molts, and did not let him hang in a position that caused his abdomen to flop until he was completely hardened after shedding. With each shedding afterwards the support in back increased lessening the flop. By the time he reached adulthood, which was three molts later, his wings were plenty strong enough to hold what little give was left.

After him, I started to take special care to partially cover any of my mantises cages with little blankets when I know they are getting ready to shed. Since I don't have a separate mantis room it is the only way to ensure privacy when shedding. It seems to me mantises are most likely to get themselves into trouble when shedding and drying when they are over stimulated/stressed by outside movements. I don't want to give them any reasons to hurry or try to move away before they are fully done.

I am by no means suggesting anyone has to follow my method, I just wanted to share my experiences. I've heard of the mantises living perfectly normal lives if left alone with their floppy rears.


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## kbfprivate (Jul 10, 2011)

Krissim Klaw said:


> This is a somewhat common problem in Chinese mantids, at least in the hobby, not sure about wild mantises. I have a theory it has something to do with them moving too early after molts. This species is known to skitter about. I had it happen to one of my boys.
> 
> None of my Chinese have ever shed straight from the top of their cages, they all chosen the walls. I've only once had a mantis with this problem and noticed he had climbed up on the ceiling of his cage shortly after molting to hang. I caught his next few molts, and did not let him hang in a position that caused his abdomen to flop until he was completely hardened after shedding. With each shedding afterwards the support in back increased lessening the flop. By the time he reached adulthood, which was three molts later, his wings were plenty strong enough to hold what little give was left.
> 
> ...


All very interesting. Thanks for sharing. I did notice that he molted in the last few days. I also noticed small wings sprouting


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## Malti (Jul 10, 2011)

DH = dirty harry, deathly gallows, desperate housewife? :blink:


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## Krissim Klaw (Jul 10, 2011)

Malti said:


> DH = dirty harry, deathly gallows, desperate housewife? :blink:


I think a lot of people use it as an abbreviation for dear husband or darling husband, but it could just as easily mean dumb husband or damn husband depending on ones mood. =p


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## PhilinYuma (Jul 11, 2011)

Krissim Klaw said:


> I think a lot of people use it as an abbreviation for dear husband or darling husband, but it could just as easily mean dumb husband or damn husband depending on ones mood. =p


Or Dichoptera hyalinata, though that seems unlikely in this context.

I think that your idea about a kinked abdomen being due to the mantis molting in a vertical position, KK. is the only feasible one that I have heard, and while I have not yet started placing blankies on the cages of molting mantids, I am sure that the "loving attention" that many keepers inflict on their mantids on a daily basis is a cause of unnecessary and potentially harmful stress. We have all seen mantids spending their time clinging to the top of an enclosure and I know for sure that this is not natural. Fill a 12" cube with raffia, and you will see that both nymphs and adults prefer to spend their time there, hiding from birds and caretakers. "How do I make my mantis display?" I dunno, but anything that would make you scream should work.

Perhaps I should take one more glass of wine before I go to bed.


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## kmsgameboy (Jul 11, 2011)

Krissim Klaw said:


> I think a lot of people use it as an abbreviation for dear husband or darling husband, but it could just as easily mean dumb husband or damn husband depending on ones mood. =p


  You said a bad word! Im telling teacher!!!


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## Krissim Klaw (Jul 13, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> Or Dichoptera hyalinata, though that seems unlikely in this context.
> 
> I think that your idea about a kinked abdomen being due to the mantis molting in a vertical position, KK. is the only feasible one that I have heard, and while I have not yet started placing blankies on the cages of molting mantids, I am sure that the "loving attention" that many keepers inflict on their mantids on a daily basis is a cause of unnecessary and potentially harmful stress. We have all seen mantids spending their time clinging to the top of an enclosure and I know for sure that this is not natural. Fill a 12" cube with raffia, and you will see that both nymphs and adults prefer to spend their time there, hiding from birds and caretakers. "How do I make my mantis display?" I dunno, but anything that would make you scream should work.
> 
> Perhaps I should take one more glass of wine before I go to bed.


Oops almost missed this post. It means a lot to hear you think my idea is feasible. I feel less like the crazy mantis lady now. I know the bent abdomen is common in Chinese captive mantises and I can't help but wonder if that is because tanks and other slick containers are also rather popular for use on separating the more highly aggressive species. Seems like people are less willing to splurge the space of pop up screen cages for the non communal species.Some species seem to do really good if you offer them plenty of sticks, but the Chinese is a species that tends to give the claw to cage decorations. They don't have that same drive to hide like some species and tend to move up looking for the easiest hold. They love screen because it is so easy for their clumsy selves to hang on to. That however means if the only screen in the cage is on the ceiling, than that is where so many gravitate despite any lovely cage decorations added.

I've noticed that a lot of other species however are far more excited by cage decorations. I remember when I got my first non Chinese species, a young ghost nymph. I got him late at night and was so tired I released him in one of my pop out cages and crashed before adding any decor. I woke up and he was gone. I looked everywhere. Where did I finally find him? He was hiding behind the little fabric tag that this particular cage had on the inside. Out of all that space, he had found the one object he could hide behind and went there. Needless to say he was an absolute joy to watch when I got him home to my huge custom made cage. Every day it was game to find what leaf, stick, or even ground decoration he was hiding on. So much fun.

As for the, "How to make your praying mantis display," I have been trying to resist posting in such threads. I know I am a contradiction with how much I handle my mantises, but seriously after seeing what some people like to do, I now know why some people think their mantises get stressed at being handled...


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## SntaCruz83 (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm currently raising 7 Chinese Mantises and I've seen this on three of them so far. I did notice that the bend looked slightly less severe after feeding them, but it was still noticeable. At first I kept inverting the enclosure on one of them because it just looked painful, but it was stubborn and simply climbed up to the new ceiling over and over again to show off it's lovely reverse ab crunch. It's been about a week since the abdominal bend was an issue for two of the three, though. They have since changed their habits of hanging directly from the top of the enclosure to having only their back legs on the ceiling with the rest of their body parallel to the sides. Only the third mantis (who was also the last to show this trait) still needs to straighten up.

Oh, and hello! My first post! =)


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## Macrossjs (Aug 1, 2011)

Hey I got a question about my male L4 chinese. I got him Saturday at noon. I fed him twice that day on meal worms and one on Sunday morning. I tried feeding him at noon on Sunday, and he wasn't interested, and around six he didnt care so no go. So I decided to place a couple of fruit flies in 32 ounce cup and left him in there for a couple hours. He was basically chilling at the ceiling most of the time.

Then at some point he went down and caught a fruit fly, then went back up the ceiling.. Then he started to move around the cup looking at the fruit flies and started batting his front claws in a forward motion. I tried feeding him around 9:30pm last night, I took a pair of tweezers to show it to him and he just jumped away!!! O_O  So I figured that he might be molting; so I transferred him to my 10 gallon tank. He likes to chill the ceiling screen and most of the night he stayed there.

I got up this morning and found him on the screen as usual. I noticed he moved a couple inches to a different spot, but he's not moving.. Every time I move my hands around him he reacts, like he wants to crawl on to my fingers, but now he's not reacting.

Right now he's at the same spot. He's still alive, I can see his tip of his abdomen moving slowly up and down, and I noticed his abdomen is kinda bent down while he's up on the screen. So is he in a molting stage?? Im kinda concerned cuz he was jumping away from his food when I showed it to him. I'm planning on getting small crickets today at the pet store. I'll provide pics as soon as the battery are charged. Thanks for your help guys.


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## Precarious (Aug 1, 2011)

MacrossJS said:


> Hey I got a question about my male L4 chinese...


He may just be preparing to molt. They will hang with their claws before them and flex their abdomen. When you see that jut let them be. You can damage them if they are handled or forced to move too close to molt. Sometimes they will refuse food for days before a molt and they usually won't eat for at least a day after.

He may just be full. If the abdomen is plump they generally won't eat for a day or two. Most people only feed their mantis a couple time a week depending on the size of the food. If yours is small enough to still eat fruit flies then the meal worms you've fed it are probably a big meal.

If you think he's preparing for molt make sure you keep humidity up and remove any crickets or other insects that might damage him during molt. People have lost mantids to hungry crickets that take advantage of the vulnerability of a soft, freshly molted mantis, so always be wary of crickets.


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## Macrossjs (Aug 1, 2011)

I just got back from the petstore w/ some tiny crickets. Looks like he moved to a different section of the screen. I took some water and misted him and he started drinking the water off the screen. I placed a droplet of water on top of the screen and he started drinking from it. I gave him a tiny cricket and he ate half of it.. looks like hes somewhat full from last Saturday.. I'll refrain from feeding him again until Wensday.. Thanks Pre!


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