# caught my first mantids! please help IDing them, phoenix AZ.



## HepCatMoe (Sep 2, 2007)

ok first i caught two of them. after spending some time looking around the web i think they are either iris oratoria or stagmomantis californica.

anybody know how i can tell?

they are both about the same length (just under 3 inches) and i assume the same species. they both have the same colors (green) and patterns (a white stripe running down their side) and i found them about a foot apart in a bush in my front yard. i think one is a male, his wings go all the way down his abdomen and he is definately more "petite". also, i know his wings are functional as ive seen him try to fly out of his jar several times. the females wings go about half way down her abdoman, and she has eaten everything ive fed to her so far, i dont think her wings are functional.

one more question: how do i handle the male? is there any trick to keeping him from flying away?

thanks in advance!


----------



## Hypoponera (Sep 2, 2007)

Look on the UNDERSIDE of the abdomen. Does either of your mantids have a reddish-orange spot visible? If so, you have _Iris oratoria_. If a mantid lacks the spot, it is probably _Stegmomantis limbata_. While _S. californica_ is found in Arizona, _S. limbata_ is far more common.

The only advice I can offer regarding your male is to be ready when you open his container!


----------



## HepCatMoe (Sep 2, 2007)

well the female definately has the spot. i remember seeing it.

i dont think the male does though (im at school right now and cant check).

perhaps its not the same species!! bummer if it is not, i really wanted to breed them.

i looked at pictures of s.limbata and i dont think its that species, as the abdoman is much more robust/thicker than on mine.

now with s.californica in many pictures the abdoman seems to point up. in a few ive seen though, the abdoman sticks straight out behind (wich is how mine are).

are maybe some of those pictures mislabled?

so far im hoping i have a pair of iris oratoria.

thanks for the info though


----------



## OGIGA (Sep 2, 2007)

I guess you can try. If you don't mate them, they'll never reproduce so the odds are in your favor.


----------



## Hypoponera (Sep 2, 2007)

You can also check and see if the hind wings have a dark eye spot. That may be very dificult to see on a live mantid though. You could try to get them to "flash" you!

In the photos of the California mantid, were they adults? All _Stegmomantis _ adults I have seen have abdomens that point straight back, not curled up. The nymphs do point the end of the abdomen up on occasion.

_S. limbata and S. californica_ can be hard to tell apart. The shape of the abdomaen of both species are identically shaped. The male Californian has brown stripes on the upper surface of the abdomen. The male of the Bordered mantis lacks these strips. The stripes are hidden under the wings and so can be hard to see.


----------



## xenuwantsyou (Sep 2, 2007)

Hey Hypo, I just thought it was interesting that you live in Rancho. Do you ever go to Gardunos? My grandparents live in Corrales so I've spent a bunch of time in tha area.


----------



## Hypoponera (Sep 2, 2007)

Been there many times. I liked "On the Border" better. But it closed and was turned into another Gordunos.

When are you coming out this way again?


----------



## joossa (Sep 2, 2007)

Definitely check for the red-orange spot on the second to last segment for females and fourth to last for males. This is the best way to ID. The spot is much noticeable on females than it is on males, so look carefully. I. oratoria also has an eye spot on their hind wings that is violet to black in color. I believe that S. californica also has an eyespot on their hind wings, so this method of ID won’t be so reliable in distinguishing between the two species.

As for handling the male… I would give him time (a couple days) so he can get used to his new home. Usually, newly caught mantids will be restless, trying to find a way out, but after a couple of days they tend to relax and become more tame. I have had one of my adult males since L3 and he seldom flies off when I handle him, and when he does he only goes a shot distance. Make sure you let him “walk onto” your hand whenever you want to pick him up instead of “pinching” his thorax--- doing this will make him freak out.

Hope this helps! Good luck!


----------



## xenuwantsyou (Sep 3, 2007)

Maybe next year. I'm a senior in high school this year and am thinking of going to UNM. Otherwise it might not be for a while since I live all the way here in nothern VA.


----------



## Hypoponera (Sep 4, 2007)

Cool! I spent 3 years at UNM. I picked up my 2nd degree there. Its a much better school then it gets credit for!


----------



## HepCatMoe (Sep 21, 2007)

she laid an ooth!!

its been a while so to get you up to date, they both have the spot on the underside of the abdoman and ive seen the dark spots on the males hind wings, so im pretty sure they are both i. oratoria.

she laid an ooth a couple weeks ago so i got a couple more questions. will she lay another? how long should i chill the ooth for?

also, how much longer will she live?


----------



## Xenomantis (Sep 21, 2007)

Congratulations on the new ooth!


----------



## Hypoponera (Sep 21, 2007)

You do not need to chill _I. oritoria_ ooths. This species doen't need a diapause. You can chill the ooth if you want to delay hatching though.

Your female may well deposit another ooth if you feed her well. Fatten her up and see what happens!


----------



## joossa (Sep 21, 2007)

> will she lay another?


Most likely, yes. Their ooths and ooth characteristics are similar to the Gambian Spotted Eye Mantis (_Pseudoharpax Virescen_).



> how long should i chill the ooth for?


The species experiences cold winters in my area for about 4 months, so I like to give them a cold period. A little over a month is fine. I will be leaving my new batch in for 2-3 months this year so they can hatch in spring (they need high temperatures to hatch, so it helps to wait).



> also, how much longer will she live?


It depends on how old she is. My adult females usually last from mid September until mid November/early December (I keep them seasonally) under ideal conditions.


----------

