# Nymphs too large for fruit flies, trying to choose next feeder.



## avn (Jun 10, 2016)

Hey!

so my 15  Chinese Nymphs are L3/L4 now, about 1 - 1.5 inches long.

They're a little big for fruit flies (and all my fruit fly cultures died) so I've decided to move on too another feeder.  

I came home with waxworms, mealworms and small crickets, and tried them out.

It seems like they like to take a waxworm, even if it's about as big as them. They do a few flips trying to get a good hold of it as it wriggles around but then they eat their fill.

I didn't see any eat crickets but I put them in right before I had to go, so maybe they'd do it given enough time.

I saw a few take pot-shots at a mealworm but they all let go almost immediately upon grabbing it.  I'm wondering if mantises this size can't pierce a mealworms armor? It's a shame because a mealworm seems like the appropriate size food for these guys.  Even they seem kinda big, but smaller than the massive waxworms which look like manatees next to human swimmers. 

Questions:

1. since it seems like my mantises mostly like waxworms, is there any harm using them as a primary feeder? I've seen people on the forums express some wariness about this but does anyone know for sure?

2. Are my mantises too small for mealworms? 

Chris


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## Sarah K (Jun 10, 2016)

avn said:


> Hey!
> 
> so my 15  Chinese Nymphs are L3/L4 now, about 1 - 1.5 inches long.
> 
> ...


I am not really sure if waxworms and mealworms should be used as a main feeder, as I believe they are probably too fatty, and should be treated more like a treat than a staple. Crickets should be fine for Chinese, and a lot of us (including me) use house flies and blue bottle flies for our staples. You can buy them in the pupae state from members on here, or from other online retailers that specialize in mantises. Pupae are really convenient, because you pop them in the mantis enclosures in their pupae state, then they hatch in the enclosure (a day or so later), and the mantises can grab them from within their enclosure, and you will not have to worry about flying escape artists in your house that way! Some people use roaches, and some people use homemade traps for wild flies, and Thomas has a great tutorial for creating a homemade fly trap:


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## CosbyArt (Jun 10, 2016)

Once mantids outgrow fruit flies the next step is stable flies or house flies. The bottle flies are likely too big (they are the next step after stable and house flies), although T. sinensis are aggressive eaters and might be fine.

Waxworms are really high in fat and are more of a treat than a staple food source (I personally let them grow out to moths as my mantids much prefer that). In nature a mantid would likely never come across a single waxworm let along it's only feeder source, so I wouldn't recommend it.

I have never had any mantids (of any size) that would eat mealworms, but if you are having luck they would be alright. If they are not able to bite into the mealworm you can cut the mealworms in half and offer them that way. Just keep an eye on them as they can quickly disappear into any substrate and will no longer be of value as feeders. Of course their adult form, a beetle, is too hard for a mantid to eat as well.

The ideal feeders are flying insects and common crawling insect varieties like crickets, cockroaches, grasshoppers, etc. Here is a quick guide on feeders moving up in size..

Melanogaster FF, Hydei FF, stable flies, houseflies, bottle flies (blue or green), horseflies, soldier flies, crickets, cockroaches, etc. Of course depending on the size of the prey they can be used sooner, such as pinhead crickets.


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## hibiscusmile (Jun 11, 2016)

I agree, some of mine will eat mealworms, but u usually have to wiggle it and I dont have time for all that wiggling.


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## avn (Jun 11, 2016)

I put more crickets in their enclosures and now the crickets and waxworms are crawling around the bottom having a party while the mantises huddle in fear at the top.

they're seriously scared of the crickets! I though these were supposed to be ferocious predators! 

I looked up stable flies... They suck human blood! 

Sigh mantises are on a mission to give me agita


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## hibiscusmile (Jun 12, 2016)

Take out all those insects, The flies we are talking about are just false stable flies. You are stressing out the mantis.


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## Descartes (Jun 12, 2016)

Another option: leave a porch light on. Come out after dark, and take your pick of moth sizes. 

Some folks don't recommend moths for long term health, and some moths could be poisonous (usually brightly colored). That said, I have never had an issue and my mantis love them. I feed a varied diet, but moths are easy and delicious. Also, research studies suggest that "bad" moths will be rejected by the mantis, so I don't worry too much. 

Then, you can work toward a fly trap or other long term solution.


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## Jgod (Jun 12, 2016)

avn said:


> I put more crickets in their enclosures and now the crickets and waxworms are crawling around the bottom having a party while the mantises huddle in fear at the top.
> 
> they're seriously scared of the crickets! I though these were supposed to be ferocious predators!
> 
> ...


Overcrowding the mantis stresses it out. Crickets can harm your mantis and should not be left in the enclosure. If the animal you're feeding the mantis can bite or sting it should not be left in the enclosure unattended as it may harm or kill the mantis especially during a molt.

The only feeders I'll leave in an enclosure are flies and usually only a couple at a time. 



hibiscusmile said:


> Take out all those insects, The flies we are talking about are just false stable flies. You are stressing out the mantis.


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## Mantidaddicted (Jun 13, 2016)

Yes, only keep two or three feeders in at a time, they will definitely get stressed and scared and won't go even close to them. And like humans stress does a lot of harm to the body. So imagine being that little, you can definitely stress it to death! You should consider ordering some house fly pupae from MantisPlace(Rebecca is really awesome).


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## avn (Jun 17, 2016)

I left the mantises overnight with the crickets for a few days and most of the crickets got eaten. No harm to the mantises is visible, despite y'alls doom and gloom.

i think they had to get used to this strange new creature!

However they were definitely too big for some of the mantises, so I looked for a size smaller. 

I managed to find a place that sells crickets that are about as big as Abraham Lincolns face on the penny.   the mantises pounce on them really fast.

a cricket is a tough food! It's jumping everywhere and trying to get away. I like that it's a challenge for them. Otherwise they're just sittin in that cage doing nothing. Lazy!


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