# Indian Flower death - red regurgitation



## iamkeir (Oct 31, 2010)

Hi there,

My adult male Indian Flower mantis died the other day and he was only about 7/8 months old - I believe they're meant to live to be more like 10/12 months?

I kept finding red stains on the mesh lid which, after research, I deduced was either regurgitation or faecal and, although he carried on feeding to begin with, he soon stopped feeding altogether after a week or so of these intermittent stains appearing.

He also became somewhat lethargic so I let him hang out on my bonsai tree every day as I had a feeling he was on his way out so just wanted him to be comfortable.

I noticed a very small, dark brown/black mass on the tip of his abdomen and he's occasionally seem to push out a lighter green part of his abdomen - my guess is he had constipation, or a blood clot. This mass disappeared at one point and he seemed to perk up a bit but went downhill again.

This all probably led to dying of starvation, poor fellah.

Does anyone have any insight into what could have blighted him?

I mainly fed him on fruit flies, occasionally small brown crickets (a dietary choice which I've seen has caused great debatable on the forum). I kept his enclosure fairly humid and the average temp of my room was about 20 degrees C.

My adult ghost has just passed away too (starting a separate thread for this) - I'm concerned that perhaps it could be an infection that has spread?


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## hibiscusmile (Oct 31, 2010)

I doubt the infection, and the flower mantis could easily handle blue bottle flies, fruit flies are to small for him and he can't possibly get enough nourisment from them, a lot of people feed fruit flies even for adult 3" mantis, and thats a starvation diet, sorry, better luck next time.


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## tier (Oct 31, 2010)

Hi

If the temperatures are too low, an insect like a mantis can not digest its food. This can cause deadly "infections". So you shouldn"t wonder too much. Both of these Indian resp. African species need around 30degree C for daytime and 20degree C for the nighttime. Thus, you are keeping them completely wrong and its very sure it caused the deaths.

regards


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## angelofdeathzz (Oct 31, 2010)

You will need a heat source, most of the people here choose a light of some kind, a shop light(clamp type) are only $6-7 with a 40-50 watt bulb is still less than $10 total and it is essential for your desert or African mantis species. also walmart has digital temp/humidity gauge for $6, also important!

a adult mantis eating a fruit fly is like you eating a grape, it would take 150+ a day to get full. if a mantis was 5 ft. tall it would eat 10-15 cheeseburgers for dinner.  30+ in a day.( I know it's a weird analogy)

Mantisplace.com has basic care sheets for many mantis to get you started, check hibiscusmile's post 2 spots up, and sells any feeders you may need, and much more.


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## GreenOasis (Oct 31, 2010)

The red stains could've been "blood" from the fruit flies. I've noticed that sometimes they splatter a bit when the mantises bite into them. Just a thought.

-Carey Kurtz-


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## sporeworld (Oct 31, 2010)

I experienced the red regurgitation when I had my mantids on crickets, but not since. I also switched to better ventilated cages about the same time, but I don't knwo if that played into it.


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## iamkeir (Nov 5, 2010)

Going to check out the caresheet and aim for higher temps next time. Better ventilation may be in order too for my habitat.

@Tier - 'completely wrong' is a little harsh don't you think? &lt;_&lt; 

Thanks all for feedback


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## sporeworld (Nov 5, 2010)

BTW, love the look on your(?) face in your avatar. Intense! I'm sure I've seen my mantis make that very same face...


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## PhilinYuma (Nov 5, 2010)

Hi! Somehow I missed both your threads until today. It looks as though you got the usual good advice from the forum, and it would be better to raise your environmental temps and feed larger prey,but I'd like to add a couple of things.

The red vomit, like human emesis, can stem from a variety of causes, the most common in my experience being overeating. Since I do not feed my mantids crix and have still experienced this, they are obviously not a significant cause.

Also, your mantis did not die of starvation from lack of food. If it were starving, it should have died long ago unless you obtained it a short while ago and started a new dietary regime.

Tier's confident assertion that the low temperature slowed its digestion causing infection is interesting but not supported by any study that I have seen. Again, if it were true, it should have become manifest sooner rather than later. Some studies, e.g. those of Inoue _et al_, show that the opposite is true, though. If a mantis overfeeds, the food is forced through the gut too quickly for complete digestion.

Finally, the forum is filled with sad accounts of the deaths of much younger mantids than yours for no known reason. At least in your case, you have had some pointers that will improve your husbandry..

I should add, though, that I was deeply hurt and offended by the last line of your ghost thread. As an old man myself, I want you to know that my antennae are vibrant and not in the least crumbly. Such generalizations are very hurtful to the Geritol set.


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## sporeworld (Nov 6, 2010)

Ha, ha, ha! Brilliant! Science and humor all in one!

BTW, on the subject of infections... coming from another hobby, I keep looking for similarities. With silkmoth larvae, it's very delicate. If ONE little cat behaves even a little odd, it must be immedieatly removed. Whole colonies (we're talking 100-300 little cats) can get wiped out in a day or two. But these mantids seem ALOT hardier. I've lost a few to unexplained phenomena, but I haven't got the sense that it was ever infection. I also don't recall the red regurgitation followed by death, although I would remove the mantis from the habitat and clean the cage thoroughly (and immediately). Plus, let it air dry completely.


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## Rick (Nov 6, 2010)

The symptoms you describe are all very common. Most of us have had red regurgitation at one time or another. Usually that is not fatal. I've also seen many mantids with a bit of feces stuck to the abdomen. It may be possible your guy was just old. My only suggestion is to take a close look at what he was eating.


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## iamkeir (Nov 30, 2010)

Hi all - I apologise for the lateness in replying, but wanted to say thank you all again for all the pointers/advice.

@PhilinYuma: Brilliant! Some wonderful advice (thank you) and I do apologise for the slight against your antennae!

I've a few more c.gemmatus nymphs so will be taking on board the advice given.


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