# Mantis hybrid



## MantisD (Oct 22, 2007)

Has anyone thought about trying to make a mantis hybrid? For example, crossing _Deroplatys desiccata _ with _Deroplatys lobata _.


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## OGIGA (Oct 22, 2007)

Rick has with other species. If the ootheca hatches, you'll probably get a new sterile hybrid species.


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## Rick (Oct 22, 2007)

OGIGA said:


> Rick has with other species. If the ootheca hatches, you'll probably get a new sterile hybrid species.


No I haven't yet. I crossed S. Limbata with S. Carolina. I am waiting on the ooth to hatch.


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## hibiscusmile (Oct 22, 2007)

Hollar at me when it does, I gotta see this


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## yen_saw (Oct 23, 2007)

Rick said:


> No I haven't yet. I crossed S. Limbata with S. Carolina. I am waiting on the ooth to hatch.


Rick, hope you are not putting too much of a hope for the ooth to hatch. B)


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## Hypoponera (Oct 23, 2007)

It might work! Some ants here in NM are known to hybridize readily in the wild. _Pogonomyrmex rugosus_ and _P. barbatus_ produce viable hybrids! But then again, both species produce quite a few male/female "hybrids" as well.


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## Rick (Oct 23, 2007)

yen_saw said:


> Rick, hope you are not putting too much of a hope for the ooth to hatch. B)


I know that most hybrid matings will not produce viable oothecas. For instance I have mated a s. lineola with a chinese but I knew beforehand it would not be fertile. I don't know why this would not work. Both are stagmomantis. For the most part they're the same.


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## MantisD (Oct 24, 2007)

The viability largely depends on having complimentary genetic components. Chromosome count is key. Something with 20 chromosomes might produce anything viable when mated to a species with 24. That is why for animals it is best to start by making hybrids within the same genus. For example, you can cross a lion with a tiger because their genes match up and they both happen to be in the same genus. It takes several tries to produce a viable hybrid. The result may or may not be fertile. Needless to sayit takes some considerable trial and effort to produce a robust and fertile hybrid.

I'm not sure how much is known about mantis genetics, but it seems that many available genera are monotypic. When multiple species occur they often resemble each other so much one might question if they all deserve to be considered separate species. They could be varieties or subspecies. Even so, some mantids come in different color forms and part of this is genetics in addition to other factors. You might be able to "fix" a certain color variety or at least produce ones that are more likely to be a certain color. You want bigger mantis, breed the largest male and female. Sure environment plays a role, but genes make it happen. How do you think they got flightless fruit flies?


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## Ben.M (Oct 24, 2007)

I am sure u can cross P.whailberg x P.ocelleta, there are pics here on Terra typica


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## yen_saw (Oct 24, 2007)

Sure Ben, as if it is not confusing enough for identification, right Morpheus?


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## Ben.M (Oct 24, 2007)

:lol: Well it gives u a challenge then


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## asdsdf (Oct 24, 2007)

Ben.M said:


> I am sure u can cross P.whailberg x P.ocelleta, there are pics here on Terra typica


I knew it!!! They were chastising me.....They said why would I want to alter mother nature? (Hey, what are dogs??? :angry: )


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## Rob Byatt (Oct 26, 2007)

asdsdf said:


> I knew it!!! They were chastising me.....They said why would I want to alter mother nature? (Hey, what are dogs??? :angry: )


Dogs are all the same species; that is not crossbreeding. They would not produce viable offspring if they were different species, that is the whole definition of a 'species'.


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## Hypoponera (Oct 26, 2007)

True, domestic dogs are all the same species. Wolves are a different species though. But we do cross dogs with timber wolves to produce "wolf hybrids". These hybrids are viable and can mate and reproduce with members of either species.

As Rick mentioned, we may need to re-evaluate the defintion of species. Some very closely related "species" may only be geographic variations of the same thing.


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## Morpheus uk (Oct 26, 2007)

yen_saw said:


> Sure Ben, as if it is not confusing enough for identification, right Morpheus?


Uhhhh! :wacko:


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## OGIGA (Oct 26, 2007)

Hypoponera said:


> True, domestic dogs are all the same species. Wolves are a different species though. But we do cross dogs with timber wolves to produce "wolf hybrids". These hybrids are viable and can mate and reproduce with members of either species. As Rick mentioned, we may need to re-evaluate the defintion of species. Some very closely related "species" may only be geographic variations of the same thing.


Oh yeah, that's true. Taxonomy has big problems too... everything keeps getting revised endlessly.


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## Hypoponera (Oct 29, 2007)

Hey Rick,

I just got a copy of a paper where someone tried the cross that you have done. They did get nymphs, but they had to incubate the ooths for an average of 175 days!!!


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## yen_saw (Oct 30, 2007)

Wow!! that sounds like waiting for a phasmid ova to hatch. Takes a lot of patience man....

I have Carolina ooth that took a year to hatch because i didn't overwinter it.


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