# i want this mantis..Idolomantis diabolica?



## macro junkie (Nov 12, 2007)

i saw it on his web site..heres pic and heres link..any idears of name?i want a pair..  

THIS ISNT MY PIC! Idolomantis diabolica? IS SO WHERE DO I BUY THESE?&gt;


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## Morpheus uk (Nov 12, 2007)

Giant devils orchid mantis, also know as a pain in the ###### to mantid keepers,

Real hard to keep supoosidly, wherever you get them from get a lot ###### they can have moulting problems and have numerous cases of unknown insta-death, they are real dear as well, at least £30 for an adult female


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## acerbity (Nov 12, 2007)

Last one locally went for 65$

Not sure how much they run in UK


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## Morpheus uk (Nov 12, 2007)

About £30 onwards, £25 cheap


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## ThorEH (Nov 12, 2007)

As Morpheus says, this isn't a beginners mantis.. so my advice is to wait till spring again befor you try this one out. And try out other and easier species during the winter..

The picture you posted is by the way Igor Siwanowicz's


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## Morpheus uk (Nov 12, 2007)

About £30 onwards, £25 cheap, for an adult female


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## yen_saw (Nov 12, 2007)

This is the species I was hoping to breed two yrs ago but decided to wait till it became more common. Unfortunately, it was hardly spread out. No doubt the availability has improved since then but still very limited. There must be a reason why after so many years, it is still not common, so i don't recommend anyone without experience rearing insects/herps, also not suitable for anyone couldn't provide heat, space, and proper food to the mantis.


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## Kruszakus (Nov 12, 2007)

What exactly do they need to eat?

BTW - Is it really so important to keep them in a cage surrounded with a net?


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## Morpheus uk (Nov 12, 2007)

No idea why my edited post turned into another post, TOUCHWOOD mines done find without any additional heating and lighting, btw Kruszakus they strickt eat flies


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## macro junkie (Nov 12, 2007)

Morpheus uk said:


> No idea why my edited post turned into another post, TOUCHWOOD mines done find without any additional heating and lighting, btw Kruszakus they strickt eat flies


my rooms 80 day 70 night -80 night..humiderty is 60% aways min! i feed them flys ahnd crickts which i have a big serply..i dont think i can do any thing eloes to make the mantis be better,,i think i could look after one..but i doubt there in the uk,.


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## ThorEH (Nov 12, 2007)

U can't feed them crickets


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## Red (Nov 12, 2007)

i only feed them with blue bottle and moths of galleria mellonera (honey worm) mine dont eat crickets or crokoaches...

i think that its the best.

Regards!


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## macro junkie (Nov 12, 2007)

so they only eat flys?why?do u know what..in uk theres no where that sells big flys only frite ones..


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## yen_saw (Nov 12, 2007)

Kruszakus said:


> What exactly do they need to eat?BTW - Is it really so important to keep them in a cage surrounded with a net?


Mine been doing fine feeding mainly on blue bottles, moths, butterfly, and bees(limited). I don't use cricket at all.

Net cage provide 100% moulting surface, but found out that about 50% of the time idolomantis preferred moulting on branches. So provide plenty of branches in the cage. Idolomantis don't hang on too well on plastic or glass surface, they have bulky/huge body but very fragile looking legs/grips that don't seem to support their body weight very well, i even suspected they don't hang on too well on fake branches made of plastic (which is smooth and appear "slippery"), so i use real oak branches. idolomantis with missing leg(s) might have lower chance of surviving next moult unless a proper footing is provided.


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## ThorEH (Nov 12, 2007)

Yen :

The reason for this Yen, is that they don't have the "suction cups" under their feet as most other mantids have (none of the Empusidae has these ? )

Junkie :

Yes, this is something that is known as a fact. As the Idolomantis jaws isn't made for eating hardshelled insects as cockroaches and crickets.

And its NO PROBLEM to get flies for them.. just go to you're local tackleshop and buy maggots, or even better, ask them if the got casters to give away, and hatch them to flies. As simple as that.

And again, do not try the Idolomantis before you're more experienced. Use the winter to try out the easier species..


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## macro junkie (Nov 12, 2007)

ThorEH said:


> Yen :The reason for this Yen, is that they don't have the "suction cups" under their feet as most other mantids have (none of the Empusidae has these ? )
> 
> Junkie :
> 
> ...


yer im going to wait till summer..i have a few to be breeding for now.


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## Rick (Nov 12, 2007)

ThorEH said:


> Yen :The reason for this Yen, is that they don't have the "suction cups" under their feet as most other mantids have (none of the Empusidae has these ? )
> 
> Junkie :
> 
> ...


The ends of their legs look just like any other mantis. They must be heavier. Their mouthparts also look the same as all other mantids. They probably just prefer flies.


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## macro junkie (Nov 12, 2007)

ThorEH said:


> As Morpheus says, this isn't a beginners mantis.. so my advice is to wait till spring again befor you try this one out. And try out other and easier species during the winter..The picture you posted is by the way Igor Siwanowicz's


yes thats him..what a photographer he is..really good at it he is..i guees hes shooting at about 2:1 at full zoom...super sharp pics and amazing composition.i love how he has his indoor studio set up..makes for some great pics...his gallery is 2nd to none.


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## tier (Nov 12, 2007)

Hi

Well, In germany there are about 4 or 5 breeders maximum. Luckily these guyes know what they are doing.

I have pretty lot experience in breeding Empusidae like Gongylus or Idolomorpha (Yes, no Empusidae can climb on glass, but not every mantid looking like a Empusidae is one. For example Zoolea or the different kinds os Vates, Pseudo- and Phyllovates or Sibylla are no Empusidae. Some of them can climb glass).

I spend about 300,-Euro in Idolomantis (about 15 animals approx. L5) and I was not lucky with them. They made my hair become gray! I got two pairs adult at the same time. The males even tried to mate but they just did not do it correct!

Now there are two tribes in captivity. Whan I was keepin Idolomantis, I was even keeping the one tribe which is more easy to keep than the other!!! And I failed.I cannot tell from where they are because there are eough people destroying the african nature. But two tribes are in captivity for some generations while all other imports failed!!! Do not export wildcaughts, you are waisting money. By them from the breeders, and maybe with big experience and luck you are not waisting money.

You need exactly 30C°daytime and 20°Cnighttime. You must use only butterflies, moth and flies. You must alsways feed the food with honey or catch the food in the wild. Most "fly-nets" as you use them for windows to keep out the flies are good for them. But not for instar7 and older instars. You must offer thin twigs to them. You can keep them together very easy because they are not agressive, but because of their size you need boxes about 60x60x60cm for about two adults.

Yes, the most easy way ist getting casters from fisherman-bait-shops and feed the flies with honey.

There is a magazin in Germany with two articles with ALL information on Idolomantis. Christian and the other breeders wrote it. But, I'm sorry, the text is written in german language.

Best regards, tier

PS: Here are 84 nice pics of them:

http://ttwebbase.dyndns.org/mantid/view/78.html


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## yen_saw (Nov 13, 2007)

ThorEH said:


> Yen :The reason for this Yen, is that they don't have the "suction cups" under their feet as most other mantids have (none of the Empusidae has these ? )


That's interesting Thoer. I was not aware that mantis has "suction cups" foot like those in gecko/lizard.








tier said:


> HiWell, In germany there are about 4 or 5 breeders maximum. Luckily these guyes know what they are doing.
> 
> I have pretty lot experience in breeding Empusidae like Gongylus or Idolomorpha (Yes, no Empusidae can climb on glass, but not every mantid looking like a Empusidae is one. For example Zoolea or the different kinds os Vates, Pseudo- and Phyllovates or Sibylla are no Empusidae. Some of them can climb glass).
> 
> ...


Thanks Tier for the info. Your story is making me nervous



, although i am doing everything according to advice given here. Also noticed that they like thin branches, and they will also move close to light/heat source.

So 2'x2'x2' for only 2 adult. hmmm... i was planning to put about 30+ adults (if they all moult alright for me) in a large net cages as follow. (My son is about 4'10")


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## ThorEH (Nov 13, 2007)

Rick said:


> The ends of their legs look just like any other mantis. They must be heavier. Their mouthparts also look the same as all other mantids. They probably just prefer flies.


U can't see these things with the naked eye.

As for the legs, It's got nothing to do with weight, a L1 idolomantis isn't any heavier than another L1 nymph. And a adult Idolomantis isn't any heavier than, say a adult Chinese, still none of the Idolomantis (or any other Empusidae) can climb glass - because their feet is built up in another way

Yes the mouthparts look the same, but they are "made" for another purpose.. All that has tried to feed their Idolomantis with other insects than "soft" ones has ended up with dead Idolomantis.


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## joossa (Nov 13, 2007)

Has anyone ever read up on what the species eats in it's natural environment? This may lead to a conclusion on why they prefer and do better with flies.

Lot of good info in this topic!


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## joossa (Nov 13, 2007)

ThorEH said:


> Yen :The reason for this Yen, is that they don't have the "suction cups" under their feet as most other mantids have (none of the Empusidae has these ? )


No mantids have suction cups.... they have hooks just like other insects and spiders. &lt;_&lt;


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## ThorEH (Nov 13, 2007)

They eat flying insect, such as flies, butterflies and moths  

Was hoping Christian could get into this post and clearify things..


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## ThorEH (Nov 13, 2007)

> No mantids have suction cups.... they have hooks just like other insects and spiders.


hence the " "


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## AFK (Nov 14, 2007)

it should not be a surprise whatsoever that only some mantises have arolias (suction cup pads found at the tarsal base between the tarsal claws). it's quite common that only certain members of any given insect group possess arolias while others in the group do not. in the wild, arolias allow insects to climb the smooth surfaces of leaves; in captivity, arolias allow insects to climb glass. for example, not all ants have arolias.


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## tier (Nov 14, 2007)

Hi

I have had a discussion with Christian.

It's Arolii (plural) or Arolium (single), all mantids have them.

But members of the Empusidae do just have Arolii which do not allow them to walk on glass. They have a special kind of Arolii because they live in twigs but not in leaves.

Now Christian an I are not 100% sure that Blepharopsis cannot climb glass. Both of us used to keep them, but it was years ago. Christian told me that Blepharopsis are very original (~not very specialised) Empusidae. Maybe they can climb glass???

Can anyone help? Is your Blopsis able to climb glass???

And yes, in nature they capture bies and bumble-bies, butterflies, wasps, flies and maybe moth.

Regards


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## joossa (Nov 14, 2007)

From my understanding, the Arolium is not a suction cup at all. It is a pad-like projection of the leg that allows for more surface area to come in contact with whatever the individual is grasping onto. Thus, allowing ease of locomotion on difficult surfaces.

I guess we shouldn't use simple terms such as "suction cups" in order to avoid confusion.


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## yen_saw (Nov 14, 2007)

tier said:


> Can anyone help? Is your Blopsis able to climb glass???Regards


my Bleph. mendica can climb plastic wall no problem. Even Empusa sp. in my culture can climb crystal clear plastic wall better than any of the ground mantis (L. minor) here in Texas which is really terrible in climbing smooth surface. What i noticed on my idolomantis however is that they only use the very last tip of their feet - basically two little hook-like toes - to hang on if you provide only mesh screen netting. Unlike other mantis species like Parasphendale, Hierodula, Rhombodera or Sphodromantis sp. which used the entire foot when climbing smooth surface. So thin branches with rough surface probably work the best for idolomantis when it comes to moulting. Although half of my idolomantis moulting alright from mesh screen. Anyway, thanks for the info Tier.


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## tier (Nov 14, 2007)

> Although half of my idolomantis moulting alright from mesh screen. Anyway, thanks for the info Tier.


Hi

And this is the problem: They will moult on the mesh-screen if you offer the chance to reach one.

50% will fall down while moulting from mesh-screen (the older, the more).

And 100% of adults moulted adult on mesh screen will have spread-up wings fur sure.



> So 2'x2'x2' for only 2 adult. hmmm... i was planning to put about 30+ adults (if they all moult alright for me) in a large net cages as follow. (My son is about 4'10")


In fact the enclosure is not perfect for Idolomatis, but German breeders use similar ones or even small tents.

You must make sure twigs are reachable everywhere.

The other Problem is that they do not only catch flying flies but also walking flies. If they catch the walking fly while walking on these window-flie-mesh-nets, the mantids' claws will become destroyed the more the older the mantid becomes. It depends on the corralation between size of feet of the different instars and the wide of the wire-netting:

A special size of wire-netting can be wonderfull for instar 1-3 while instar 4 is destroying it's feet on it.

But you can use these enclosures, I guess. I would use two of them. I would lay them down on the floor and put 2 x 40W lamps directly above each of them. You should can keep about maximum 15 males in one and maximum 15 females in the other one. But remember: I'm not a breeder of this species 

Regards,


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## Mantida (Nov 14, 2007)

tier said:


> HiAnd this is the problem: They will moult on the mesh-screen if you offer the chance to reach one.
> 
> 50% will fall down while moulting from mesh-screen (the older, the more).
> 
> ...


Oh my. This species sounds like a killer 24/7-care-watching-or-it'll-die species.


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## asdsdf (Nov 14, 2007)

I know. :blink:


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## macro junkie (Nov 15, 2007)

mayby in a few years but for now this one isnt for me..to picky.


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## tier (Nov 15, 2007)

Hi

I was talking of "feet" but I wrote "feed" in my last contibution. I edited it but it is still wrong in the quote above.

Sorry for confusion.


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## spawn (Nov 15, 2007)

I have to say, the last time I read one of Christian's comments regarding Idolomantis, he pointed out that people point-blank just put them in wrong conditions which is why they have such high mortality rates in captivity. He said they should be just as successful as any other species (like Hierodula) if given the proper husbandry.


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## Christian (Nov 15, 2007)

spawn said:


> I have to say, the last time I read one of Christian's comments regarding Idolomantis, he pointed out that people point-blank just put them in wrong conditions which is why they have such high mortality rates in captivity. He said they should be just as successful as any other species (like Hierodula) if given the proper husbandry.


This is exactly the point. They survive short-term anomalous conditions, but react on wrong middle- and long-term conditions very thoroughly. However, I do not have much problems with wrong meshes. I just avoid metal fabric.

The food issue has nothing to do with their mandibles. They are typical mantid mandibles, and _Idolomantis_ also can eat hard-tissued insects. They just prefer airborne prey, usually large hymenopterans and butterflies/moths. As such food is badly available in captivity, one uses flies most of the time. For larvae they are best, but adults need something more... substantial from time to time. Once my females fed preferably on conspecific males, just because they were flying around in the cage...

Crickets should be avoided, there were some unexplainable deaths after the consumption of them. But I feed sometimes male roaches from a pincer. You have to make them fluttering around before.

However, after a few generations, there aren't many breeders left. And the ones who left never know if this generation isn't their last. Definitely not a beginner species.

Regards,

Christian


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## yen_saw (Nov 16, 2007)

Lost my first idolomantis through mismoulting (subadult female) today. What a bummer!



This is the one traded from Germany, appear to lose grip while moulting. I am moving the other surviving idolomantis from Germany to another taller cage so the branches wouldn't reach the top, they are now all hanging on the branches instead, will see if that helps. Luckily, the other batch reared from hatchling are moulting alright, finger crossed.






I put her into freezer, and later on had time to "manually" put a threat post


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## macro junkie (Nov 16, 2007)

sorry to here that yen..i want these so bad..so they live toghther&gt;?if i where to get a big tent like yours..a big plant with lots of wooden branches..a heat light and make sure there hot all the time and lots of flys..am i missing any thing out?i want to get a ooth in summer time and give them a go...do u ship to uk? do u think if i put an order in now for an ooth u could have 1 for me just before the summer time next year.great pic by the way.


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## macro junkie (Nov 16, 2007)

sorry to here that yen..i want these so bad..so they live toghther&gt;?if i where to get a big tent like yours..a big plant with lots of wooden branches..a heat light and make sure there hot all the time and lots of flys..am i missing any thing out?i want to get a ooth in summer time and give them a go...do u ship to uk? do u think if i put an order in now for an ooth u could have 1 for me just before the summer time next year.great pic by the way.


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## Morpheus uk (Nov 16, 2007)

They are even worse at lower instars, yes you can keep them together but its not worth it with a low amount as in they often have a go at each other here and there if food drops down a little


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## Mantida (Nov 16, 2007)

Aw, I'm sorry Yen.  Was she almost dead when you found her on the floor?

Geez. That threat posture is beautiful.

I really want to try rearing this species... but a little voice inside my head tells me I'm going to fail miserably.


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## yen_saw (Nov 16, 2007)

macro junkie said:


> sorry to here that yen..i want these so bad..so they live toghther&gt;?if i where to get a big tent like yours..a big plant with lots of wooden branches..a heat light and make sure there hot all the time and lots of flys..am i missing any thing out?i want to get a ooth in summer time and give them a go...do u ship to uk? do u think if i put an order in now for an ooth u could have 1 for me just before the summer time next year.great pic by the way.


Yea no problem, i expect casualty, just trying to bring it down as much as possible and share the experience here.

I have about 30 nymphs together, have one 60W right outside the cage and another 40 W bulb inside the cage. i let them cool down to about 65-70F at night to simulate the actual condition in the wild. But hot during daytime and plenty of flies yeah. You will also need to find out where the stock originally from. As for getting the ooth, there has been a whole lot of discussion on this before.



mantida said:


> Aw, I'm sorry Yen.  Was she almost dead when you found her on the floor?Geez. That threat posture is beautiful.
> 
> I really want to try rearing this species... but a little voice inside my head tells me I'm going to fail miserably.


She wasn't dead yet when i found her lying on the bottom. But end her misery in freezer.

Well i wasn't quick enough to take those threat post from live ones so guess i can only do it with the dead one :lol: 

You can give it a try after keeping few other species. We need more breeders to share the experience here. I have no shame at all if they fail to breed for me, my aim is to share the sucess or failure regardless, and enjoy the process of growing and hopefully breeding too.


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## nympho (Nov 21, 2007)

i tried keeping idolomantis once but both eventually failed as subs due to lost grip of the hind leg claws. they missed prey and impaled the front legs on the mesh, and must have pulled forward and strained the hind claws so they stopped gripping. i did see this happen a few times. i was using steel mesh which is generally bad [even asians got stuck sometimes]. how about using a glass vivarium filled with twigs but turned sideways so it has a glass 'ceiling'. this would force the idolos to only use twigs as perches when they move up to the top [as they do] and also trap more heat. apart from the grip prob i thoght they were easy to keep. but they seem to take ages between moults which gives plenty of time for any issues. i just fed em wild bluebottles - easy to catch on sunny days even in winter .


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## yen_saw (Nov 21, 2007)

This losing grips issue is worrying me, i am trying different methods here and see if that works. I have one group in live monarch net cages, another group in net cage with modified top screen using pantyhose, and another one with about three subadult females in coconut fiber top. Will keep the update here.

nympho, i agree metal screen is not a good ideal for idolomantis.

Below are few pics of the coconut fibers sheet and the setup i did few days ago.







hot glue to the top of the net cage






Pic below is not the final setup, i added a pot with branches reaching to the top of fiber sheet, just in case the glue fail and sheet fall down.


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## Matthewtinnion (Dec 1, 2007)

Hey Yen, any updates on your setup? Its been great following this thread..

I was thinking about these mesh containers that your using and the worry about the mantids shedding from the mesh roof... would it not be possible to turn the net cage so that the clear plastic side became the roof, therby stopping the mantids from being able to climb there in the first place? (you would then substitue with sticks) Im thinking about buying some of these cages as one of my Idolos fell from the mesh without even trying to shed yesterday(it was fine btw).

What are your thoughts about that?

Mat.


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## macro junkie (Dec 1, 2007)

dam it i want one of them tents.,,yen//how about when you open the door..have u got 20 flys flying round your house?lol


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## yen_saw (Dec 1, 2007)

Matthewtinnion said:


> Hey Yen, any updates on your setup? Its been great following this thread..I was thinking about these mesh containers that your using and the worry about the mantids shedding from the mesh roof... would it not be possible to turn the net cage so that the clear plastic side became the roof, therby stopping the mantids from being able to climb there in the first place? (you would then substitue with sticks) Im thinking about buying some of these cages as one of my Idolos fell from the mesh without even trying to shed yesterday(it was fine btw).
> 
> What are your thoughts about that?
> 
> Mat.


Yeah been busy and only have time to throw in the flies. Yesterday i decided to clean up the cage and finally but took a few pics. Here is one of them.






The idolo group in the pic are kept in the regular net cages, they are some subadult and pre-subadult, most of the male are subadult stage while only couple of female are subadult as other females still 2 molts away. My guess is female need one extra molt to mature. So far i only have 2 casualty from this batch that hatched during shipment, one from mismoulting and the second one just drop dead. and all the specimen molted out alright into subadult from either the net cages or pantyhose, But i am not taking a risk assuming that the net cage will work perfectly for the last stage of molting. Thanks for the suggestion on using the plastic side as roofing. What i did was clipped some branches on the roof of net cages after cleaning up the cage, it appear to be alright so far as the diolomantis doesn't ming hanging on the branches as long as they are upside down (man their world must be upside down :lol: )



macro junkie said:


> dam it i want one of them tents.,,yen//how about when you open the door..have u got 20 flys flying round your house?lol


Yeah it is annoying MJ!! care to help me swat some flies while i am feeding hte mantis?


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## Kruszakus (Dec 1, 2007)

Man - I have this problem all the times - If I use a container which can be altered (glass tank won't do the trick) - then I just cut out a hole in its side, and then I drop "sleepy" flies through the hole - I seal it afterwards, and there seem to be no problem whatsoever with flies escaping from their impending death.


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## tier (Dec 1, 2007)

Hi

Yen, keeping your subadult males dry should make them stay subadult for about two month. This could be a way to make sure you will get some pairs ready to mate at the same time, which is always a big problem with Idolomantis. Most of my adult males were already dead when the females started to offer pheromones. Females need 3-6 weeks after the adult molting till they become ready to mate.

Best regards,

tier


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## AFK (Dec 1, 2007)

yen_saw said:


>


crazy pic. it's like all the world's entomological awesome stuffed into one tiny box. concentrated badassness!


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## AFK (Dec 1, 2007)

also, that's pretty ungrateful of them to ignore all the time and energy you spent in setting up that elaborate set up of branches and just hang right above them.

would removing all the branches somehow affect the mantises even though they seem to completely ignore them?


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## tier (Dec 1, 2007)

Yes.

While molting adult on the mesh screen, they wont' fall down 10cm till they reach branches, but they will fall down 80cm to the bottom of the enclosure ;-)


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## yen_saw (Dec 1, 2007)

tier said:


> HiYen, keeping your subadult males dry should make them stay subadult for about two month. This could be a way to make sure you will get some pairs ready to mate at the same time, which is always a big problem with Idolomantis. Most of my adult males were already dead when the females started to offer pheromones. Females need 3-6 weeks after the adult molting till they become ready to mate.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> tier


Thanks for the info. Does all adult male live a short live? i thought male is supposed to live for about 3-5 months as adult?



AFK said:


> also, that's pretty ungrateful of them to ignore all the time and energy you spent in setting up that elaborate set up of branches and just hang right above them.would removing all the branches somehow affect the mantises even though they seem to completely ignore them?


Actually there are some left in the branches too, but most of them prefer the roof. I clipped some branches from the top yesterday after cleaning up and they are hanging on the branches alright. and 4 female and 1 male molted into subadult alright the same night, i saw 2 molts hung up on the net and three on the floor. So this netting seems to do alright for moulting up to subadult for this species. WIll see if this net capable of producing successful adult molt.


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## tier (Dec 1, 2007)

Hi

Well, I think 3-5 month is correct. The 4 males which reached adulthood over here lived for about 3 month.

They molted adult 2 month earlier than the females and were already adult for about 3-3,5 month when the ladies started the calling-behaviour.

They very very activly searching for females to pair with with an age of 4-6 weeks (males tryed to mate with other males or subadult larvae!!!), but tryed to mate with an age of 8 weeks either.

My big luck was that I had the chace to buy 1 other, younger male. In effect I had the chance to mate him with two females. He tryed it a lot: 5 hours on the back of one female, trying to mate. Than he climbed down the female and run straight towards the next female, climbing her back and trying to mate the next 5 hours. But he was a stupid one and just didn't do it correct!!! :-(

The lights in my enclosures used to switch on at 8.00AM and the males started searching for females at 05.00PM every day. But maybe this was going hand in hand with the raising temperature?!?!

I think you are doing great with them and you have a big chance to breed another generation, I hope so


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## yen_saw (Dec 1, 2007)

wow 2 months earlier!! now i understand your concern. Hopefully the female here will mature sooner for me. Thanks for the encouraging word tier!


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## Juergen (Dec 2, 2007)

Hello Yen,

for the last molt it would be better to reduce the number of Idolos per cage.

Best regards,

Juergen


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## Juergen (Dec 2, 2007)

I will try to upload some of my photos...


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## Juergen (Dec 2, 2007)

It works!!!  

A female some time after her last molt...

After some more days they become their green color, 3 - 5 weeks later (depending on the quantity of food) they start "calling" if no male did his work before...


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## macro junkie (Dec 2, 2007)

Juergen said:


> It works!!!  A female some time after her last molt...
> 
> After some more days they become their green color, 3 - 5 weeks later (depending on the quantity of food) they start "calling" if no male did his work before...


thet pic is so small i cant see it


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## Juergen (Dec 2, 2007)

...some oothecas...


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## Juergen (Dec 2, 2007)

... L1 ... some of them have no "respect"...


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## Juergen (Dec 2, 2007)

macro junkie said:


> thet pic is so small i cant see it


try to click on...

Regards,

Juergen


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## macro junkie (Dec 2, 2007)

are u taking it with a camara phone..cause the pic is so small im just wondering?it would be great to see your pics at 800x600..i see a pretty pink mantis but its hard for me to see it at its best cause its so small.


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## Juergen (Dec 2, 2007)

macro junkie said:


> are u taking it with a camara phone..cause the pic is so small im just wondering?it would be great to see your pics at 800x600..i see a pretty pink mantis but its hard for me to see it at its best cause its so small.


well, I only have a camcorder and these screenshots, sorry for that... I`m good at breeding mantids, but not in making photos...  

Regards,

Juergen


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## spawn (Dec 2, 2007)

Not everyone has SLR's like us Macro... &lt;_&lt; You think it's small for you? My desktop resolution is 1900x1200...imagine what I'm looking at. I did see the L1 nymph on the adult female though, so thanks for sharing Juergen. How long have you worked with Idolomantis?

*I put her into freezer, and later on had time to "manually" put a threat post *

HAHAHA, oh Yen. That's so depressing and pathetic.  I did however LOVE, LOVE your group shot of the L6 (sub-sub adults?) on the mesh top. Something very surreal about that picture.


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## Juergen (Dec 2, 2007)

sorry for the low "quality" of the pics...

I`m keeping Idolomantis for a long time now, I believe since 2004...

Regards,

Juergen


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## Gurd (Dec 2, 2007)

Great pics Juergen even if they are a bit small  

Will keep this species in several years or more when I've got more experience.


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## yen_saw (Dec 3, 2007)

Juergen said:


> Hello Yen,for the last molt it would be better to reduce the number of Idolos per cage.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Juergen


Thanks Juergen. Agreed! it is just getting crowded in there, i am planning to remove some subadult male to another cage.

Shocking to see so many idolomantis ooth in your cage. :blink: HOw many ooth can an adult female lay during her life time? Also i see ooth of other species in your cage :blink: do you have empusa sp together with idolomantis?



spawn said:


> *I put her into freezer, and later on had time to "manually" put a threat post *HAHAHA, oh Yen. That's so depressing and pathetic.  I did however LOVE, LOVE your group shot of the L6 (sub-sub adults?) on the mesh top. Something very surreal about that picture.


  it is pathetic i know. despite seeing the threat pose several times, i can never capture it with my camera. I know they are teasing me


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## Juergen (Dec 3, 2007)

They lay 3 - 7 oothecas. The oothecas in the cage stem from more than one generation... Yes, I`ve kept Idolomantis together with Gongylus gongylodes, Ambivia spec. and some other species like these...

Regards,

Juergen


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## macro junkie (Dec 3, 2007)

Juergen said:


> They lay 3 - 7 oothecas. The oothecas in the cage stem from more than one generation... Yes, I`ve kept Idolomantis together with Gongylus gongylodes, Ambivia spec. and some other species like these...Regards,
> 
> Juergen


how comes some are pink and that one is dark ?that pink one is amazing!


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## yen_saw (Dec 3, 2007)

MJ, the last pic from Juergen is a ghost mantis. If you are refering to the small idolomantis, all L1 idolomantis nymphs are black, but they turn into pinkish color after first molt.


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## Guest_yen_saw_* (Apr 11, 2008)

yen_saw said:


> This losing grips issue is worrying me, i am trying different methods here and see if that works. I have one group in live monarch net cages, another group in net cage with modified top screen using pantyhose, and another one with about three subadult females in coconut fiber top. Will keep the update here.nympho, i agree metal screen is not a good ideal for idolomantis.
> 
> Below are few pics of the coconut fibers sheet and the setup i did few days ago.
> 
> ...





yen_saw said:


> Yeah been busy and only have time to throw in the flies. Yesterday i decided to clean up the cage and finally but took a few pics. Here is one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





yen_saw said:


> Thanks for the info. Does all adult male live a short live? i thought male is supposed to live for about 3-5 months as adult? Actually there are some left in the branches too, but most of them prefer the roof. I clipped some branches from the top yesterday after cleaning up and they are hanging on the branches alright. and 4 female and 1 male molted into subadult alright the same night, i saw 2 molts hung up on the net and three on the floor. So this netting seems to do alright for moulting up to subadult for this species. WIll see if this net capable of producing successful adult molt.


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## Guest_yen_saw_* (Apr 11, 2008)

I have few buyers asking me about caging for this species, so here is an old thread of several pics for info....



yen_saw said:


> Below are few pics of the coconut fibers sheet and the setup i did few days ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





yen_saw said:


> Yeah been busy and only have time to throw in the flies. Yesterday i decided to clean up the cage and finally but took a few pics. Here is one of them.





yen_saw said:


>


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