# Mantis Diet - fish lizards birds and mice



## Ricardo (May 21, 2011)

So I was watching some videos on youtube of mantids snacking on goldfish, anole's, mice and even a hummingbird.

Is this harmful? I don't plan on feeding my chinese anything of that magnitude but it looks like it can be done.

Are goldfish or mice harmful to the mantis if digested or can the mantis pretty much digest most creatures?


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## massaman (May 21, 2011)

well besides being kind of cruel feeding mammals or other vertebrates to insects unless they are doing it in the wild a mantis can handle mice and such but most would prob be at odds with feeding vert animals to inverts!


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## hibiscusmile (May 21, 2011)

I give mine rosie reds when I get some


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## patrickfraser (May 21, 2011)

Just a lot of yuck factor




. Interesting to know, but not something I'd practice.


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## MantidLord (May 21, 2011)

What are rosie reds? A google search turned up nothing for me.


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## PhilinYuma (May 21, 2011)

No, it's not harmul to the mantis, though it probably is to the prey. Most critters are smarter than humans in that respect and seldom eat what is not good for them and when they do, avoid it in the future.

@Mantidlord: Ha, ha! You didn't compensate for Hibiscusmile's improved spelling. Rosy reds are reddish minnows!


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## lancaster1313 (May 21, 2011)

I have never fed a vertebrate to any of my mantids, but as long as the size of the prey is small enough for the insect, I don't have a problem with it.

Take into account, the mess and the smell you will have to deal with, and possibly different bacteria that comes with raw meat (it could be unhealthy for humans, but probably not harm the mantids).

I don't worry about getting salmonella or other illness from my "bugs", one of the reasons for that is their diet.


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## jackdhammer (May 22, 2011)

Other than my daughter never speaking to me again, I would worry about a mammal or bird harming my mantis. Bones and teeth tend to be tough.

Fish I think would be cool though. Have an enclosure with a shallow water dish and drop some minnows or feeder fish in there. That would be cool to see I think.


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## Rick (May 22, 2011)

No pics or vids. This topic has not went over well in the past so don't be surprised if it disappears.


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## [email protected] (May 22, 2011)

Rosy Reds are feeder fish


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## Ricardo (May 22, 2011)

Anyone know if pinky mice would be okay? But how does the mantis cope with bones?


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## lancaster1313 (May 22, 2011)

Ricardo said:


> Anyone know if pinky mice would be okay? But how does the mantis cope with bones?


A mantis will eat around any parts that they don't want, and toss the parts away.

Before you feed a pinky to a mantis, take into account how a mantis eats:

They don't always eat their prey head first (If it is not pre killed, the prey item is likely to be alive during most of the feeding process, most likely crying out in pain).

It is not likely that it will finish the prey (leaving a bloody stinking mess).

If the prey has teeth yet, it can give your mantis a nasty bite.


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## massaman (May 22, 2011)

To me it just sounds cruel feeding pinkies and such to a insect and though most feed them to their reptiles and I had a ball python at one time and fed them pinkies without worrying about it at the time.The smell and mess would prob be a job to clean up and the blood could stain any enclosure or such as well leaving behind a stench if any flesh is left behind and let go to rot without cleaning it up!


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## Ricardo (May 22, 2011)

Alright thanks all! And yes I'm still only feeding them crickets/ff's.

I was just curious about how they manage to eat such large bony prey and if they are at alright after.


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## Rick (May 23, 2011)

Pinkies are sold pre killed and frozen for the purpose of being food. I feed them on occasion to my turtles. Vertebrates don't make good mantis food for the most part.


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## psychoknot (Aug 15, 2011)

it seems this strikes an ethical chord with some. i dont see why. i know i personally get all excited to see my mantis eat a cricket or moth, would i be demented to want to see it eat a mouse or fish? i dont think so,well no more demented than taking joy in it eating an insect. life is life, and we are giving life to one thing while taking the life of another. in the big scheme of things a crickets life is no less important than a goldfish or mouse, or any mammal for that matter.


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## PhilinYuma (Aug 15, 2011)

Most of us don't live in the "big scheme of things", though; we consult our interest. That is why a lot of folks who enjoy seeing a mantis eat a cricket would be somewhat disturbed to see the same mantis take a no more or less important life by eating a baby girl. B)


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## giesle (Sep 2, 2011)

I've had the idea of feeding my Budwing a feeder goldfish for awhile, but wasn't sure if it would hurt it. Thanks for starting this post and thanks to Rebecca for saying you feed yours Rosy Reds. I wouldn't have shot this yesterday if you hadn't. The Rosies were too small and too pale looking, so I went with the Comet Goldfish for the photo shoot.


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## FendersRule (Sep 2, 2011)

Awesome


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## PhilinYuma (Sep 3, 2011)

That is a seriosly prize winning pic! Congratuations!


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## Peter Clausen (Sep 3, 2011)

I'll leave the deletion of Giesle's photo to Rick's discretion. He did, rather blatantly, mention no photos or videos in his post above. I'm on record for being quite okay with the feeding of feeder fish to mantises, though I try not to intentionally rub anybody's over-sensitive, _rosie red_ nose in it.


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## PhilinYuma (Sep 3, 2011)

I guess that it's worth noting that this pic, in terms of technique and artistry is certainly the best that I have ever seen since I've been here, and possibly the best ever. Let's hear comments from the "serious" photographers! I think that it would be a serious shame to delete this. I shall copy it now, though, just in case!


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## massaman (Sep 3, 2011)

Have had a chinese sub adult devour a baby snake before it became a adult and it ate the entire thing!


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## lancaster1313 (Sep 3, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> I guess that it's worth noting that this pic, in terms of technique and artistry is certainly the best that I have ever seen since I've been here, and possibly the best ever. Let's hear comments from the "serious" photographers! I think that it would be a serious shame to delete this. I shall copy it now, though, just in case!


Not that I still do any serious photography(I used to enjoy it, before I started working in film developing).

I haven't fed any vertabrates to my mantids, only because I don't like the idea of the mess and smells that may come with it.  

I think it is a great photo.


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## twolfe (Sep 3, 2011)

Giesle, what a great image. It's one of the more creative images I've seen. The gold fish left behind looks sad to lose his buddy. Can you share your lighting technique with us?

If this image gets removed, you should re-post it in the mantis photo section.

Tammy


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## twolfe (Sep 3, 2011)

Scott (Giesle), I looked at your insect images on Smugmug. You have a few whimsical mantis images. You should create a post with your "Newly hatched mantises," "Cowboys and Aliens" and "Old Clothes." I think others would enjoy seeing them.


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## RevWillie (Sep 3, 2011)

Fantastic photo giesle!!!


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## giesle (Sep 3, 2011)

Eeek. Sorry about posting a pic here, Rick. I wouldn't have done it if I had read your comment. I was just about to upload the video I took about an hour ago of the same situation too.  I had to place a dock across the top of the bowl though. I couldn't get her to stand on the edge. Thanks all for the encouragement. I'm glad you have enjoyed it. Tammy, my lighting was a camera mounted hotshoe with a diffuser aimed right at it and another off camera flash sitting next to the bowl pointing straight up and bouncing off the ceiling. It worked great...didn't have to clone out a single light reflection. I might also later do what you suggested and post a link of other pics. Thanks.


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## LLCoolJew (Sep 3, 2011)

Oy! That's quite a photo! The second goldfish appears a tad concerned by what it's witnessing.


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## guapoalto049 (Sep 3, 2011)

Peter Clausen said:


> I try not to intentionally rub anybody's over-sensitive, _rosie red_ nose in it.


hahaha


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## giesle (Sep 3, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> I guess that it's worth noting that this pic, in terms of technique and artistry is certainly the best that I have ever seen since I've been here, and possibly the best ever. Let's hear comments from the "serious" photographers! I think that it would be a serious shame to delete this. I shall copy it now, though, just in case!


I have this pic up on a couple of critique sites and it is doing very well, but your comment literally just made my day. Thank you, Phil. I basically don't make anything off my pictures, so people enjoying my work is what keeps me going. Although, a couple pics of the same mantis and my dog made it in a few UK papers a couple of weeks ago, so that paid for my mantis hobby.  That sort of thing isn't all that common for me though.


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## angelofdeathzz (Sep 3, 2011)

A budwing will eat anything and I mean ANYTHING, but I'm not sure what the point is, is there a point? I don't think it's that cruel but it's unneeded, if you want to see a good fight feed it a grasshopper almost the same size, get your camera, but be ready for a mantis down in a clean brawl. But maybe hand feeding a tiny fish is more exciting to some?

I don't mean to sound negitive or anything but I just don't see the thrill in it, all I see is a bacteria problem.

But by all means "to each his/her own" is my thinking. (It is a great photo though  )


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## massaman (Sep 3, 2011)

probably be more interesting if it was a pirahna or a oscar or something eating the fish or even a boku!


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## giesle (Sep 4, 2011)

angelofdeathzz said:


> A budwing will eat anything and I mean ANYTHING, but I'm not sure what the point is, is there a point? I don't think it's that cruel but it's unneeded, if you want to see a good fight feed it a grasshopper almost the same size, get your camera, but be ready for a mantis down in a clean brawl. But maybe hand feeding a tiny fish is more exciting to some?
> 
> I don't mean to sound negitive or anything but I just don't see the thrill in it, all I see is a bacteria problem.
> 
> But by all means "to each his/her own" is my thinking. (It is a great photo though  )


The point, at least for me, the photographer, is art that is different from the norm. If I was taking snapshots documenting mantises eating different prey, then I possibly would have chosen another subject, but nobody but me would ever see them because it wouldn't be art and I just don't do nonart.....at least that's my goal, not necessarily always the outcome. It might be possible, but I can't think of a way to take a picture of a grasshopper getting eaten by a mantis and make it more aesthetically pleasing than the picture I posted. Nor would it be as unusual. I do totally understand your view though, coming from someone that's big into mantises and someone who might enjoy looking at documented photos more than artsy photos.


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## Gill (Sep 4, 2011)

Was the fish killed before being fed to the mantis?


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## Rick (Sep 4, 2011)

Peter Clausen said:


> I'll leave the deletion of Giesle's photo to Rick's discretion. He did, rather blatantly, mention no photos or videos in his post above. I'm on record for being quite okay with the feeding of feeder fish to mantises, though I try not to intentionally rub anybody's over-sensitive, _rosie red_ nose in it.


Guess that wasn't clear enough. I personally don't care, but some people here do.


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## giesle (Sep 4, 2011)

Gill said:


> Was the fish killed before being fed to the mantis?


I've never fed my mantises anything that wasn't kicking. Although, I figure you could feed a budwing a rock and it would be happy.  I also tried to get a video of it catching one out of the bowl, but it didn't work, because she just hung upside and stayed there after her attempt and miss. That really surprised me. She acted like she could breathe underwater. I think if I had less water in the bowl it might work. If you're interested in seeing the video click on "my flickr" in my signature and it's currently the first thing. I don't plan on keeping it on my Flickr page for too much longer though.


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## patrickfraser (Sep 4, 2011)

That miss sure put a quick end to that video.


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## angelofdeathzz (Sep 4, 2011)

giesle said:


> I've never fed my mantises anything that wasn't kicking. Although, I figure you could feed a budwing a rock and it would be happy.  I also tried to get a video of it catching one out of the bowl, but it didn't work, because she just hung upside and stayed there after her attempt and miss. That really surprised me. She acted like she could breathe underwater. I think if I had less water in the bowl it might work. If you're interested in seeing the video click on "my flickr" in my signature and it's currently the first thing. I don't plan on keeping it on my Flickr page for too much longer though.


Your new here so I'll give you that you don't know the fact that mantis don't breathe through their head area, they have a simple lung in their abdominal cavity and most have a mono ear down there also.  

They don't have teeth either, but if you could get a shot of one holding a toothbrush in one raptor and a blow drier in the other, now that would be artsy. :tooth:


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## giesle (Sep 4, 2011)

angelofdeathzz said:


> Your new here so I'll give you that you don't know the fact that mantis don't breathe through their head area, they have a simple lung in their abdominal cavity and most have a mono ear down there also.
> 
> They don't have teeth either, but if you could get a shot of one holding a toothbrush in one raptor and a blow drier in the other, now that would be artsy. :tooth:


That's awesome. Although, I feel stupid for not knowing that, since I've been into insects for so long. Maybe now I will shoot the video again. That would be super cool if it was hanging upside down under water and caught a fish.


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## Gill (Sep 4, 2011)

That is a no no in the UK, we have the animal welfare act. Here we can not feed live verterbrates to inverterbrates but we can the other way round. I believe it is all to do with the central nervous system and not causing unnecessary suffering. Verterbrates must be killed by a prescribed method.


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## PhilinYuma (Sep 4, 2011)

Gill said:


> That is a no no in the UK, we have the animal welfare act. Here we can not feed live verterbrates to inverterbrates but we can the other way round. I believe it is all to do with the central nervous system and not causing unnecessary suffering. Verterbrates must be killed by a prescribed method.


Fascinating. Are live mice allowed to be fed to snakes? Can a cat owner be prosecuted if his cat catches a mouse and plays with it before killing it? Is a hunter fined if he merely wounds a rabbit or partridge, causing it to suffer until he can reach it? Is there a specified time in which a caught fish is allowed to gasp out of water before being killed? England is the country of my birth; has the RSPCA gone barmy?


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## Gill (Sep 5, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> Fascinating. Are live mice allowed to be fed to snakes? Can a cat owner be prosecuted if his cat catches a mouse and plays with it before killing it? Is a hunter fined if he merely wounds a rabbit or partridge, causing it to suffer until he can reach it? Is there a specified time in which a caught fish is allowed to gasp out of water before being killed? England is the country of my birth; has the RSPCA gone barmy?


No live foods can be fed to snakes legally in the UK. You can be prosecuted. Pitting verterbrates against each other in enclosed spaces is spelt out as causing suffering, we use frozen mice, rats etc. This is a law. I am not up on how it applies to fishing and hunting but if someone saw you cause unnecsesary suffering with thses activities you could be prosecuted. Certainly fox hunting has come under these bans. I personally believe the protection of animals to prevent unnecessary suffering in the UK is a sign of a civilised society not barminess.

I have not watched this video. Similarly I did not open the mantis zombie video. There are a lot of videos of animals being pitted against each other in confined spaces for entertainment on the web and they are not for me.


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## massaman (Sep 5, 2011)

its a shame some people put animals ahead of humans in the scheme of things but who is to argue with the so called progress!


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## Gill (Sep 5, 2011)

massaman said:


> its a shame some people put animals ahead of humans in the scheme of things but who is to argue with the so called progress!


Who does that? Preventing unnecessary animal suffering is not putting animals ahead of humans.


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## mykey14 (Oct 3, 2011)

Every now and again i'll feed mine a small lizard because he eats the whole thing, bones and all.

I personally see nothing wrong with it.


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## meaganelise9 (Oct 20, 2011)

Gill said:


> No live foods can be fed to snakes legally in the UK. You can be prosecuted. Pitting verterbrates against each other in enclosed spaces is spelt out as causing suffering, we use frozen mice, rats etc. This is a law. I am not up on how it applies to fishing and hunting but if someone saw you cause unnecsesary suffering with thses activities you could be prosecuted. Certainly fox hunting has come under these bans. I personally believe the protection of animals to prevent unnecessary suffering in the UK is a sign of a civilised society not barminess.
> 
> I have not watched this video. Similarly I did not open the mantis zombie video. There are a lot of videos of animals being pitted against each other in confined spaces for entertainment on the web and they are not for me.


That is interesting, though I'm surprised the snakes don't want live prey the way mantids want live prey.


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