# Idolo update



## guapoalto049 (Nov 1, 2010)

Two Idolos molted to L6 last night/this morning. Unfortunately I fell asleep before I wet the paper towel. Humidity was only around 35% when I woke up.

Mantid #1 molted from the metal screen top. I found it in a mangled mess on the floor of the cage. The skin was completely off and on the floor near the mantid. It was still alive but badly bent. He became _Rhombodera basalis_ food.

Mantid #2 molted on the sticks/leaves of the cage. It was still on its way out when I woke up, came out perfect. Good lord these are getting big! Her forelegs are bigger than my adult male _R. basalis_.

Here is their cage:







There is a bamboo frame with sticks, thorn bushes, and coconut husk fiber woven into the frame I made. There are only a few small spots where the mantids can actually hang from the metal screen top...of course mantid #1 chooses one of them.

My take is that the mantid got out clean, then tried to climb back up its old skin and it broke. The other one didn't have a problem with it though. We'll see what happens to mantid #3...


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## Colorcham427 (Nov 1, 2010)

Wrong pic? That's a female Gongy.

I believe Idolos do best in their natural habitat during the rainy season. This species does so much better in humid conditions.


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## guapoalto049 (Nov 1, 2010)

Brian Aschenbach said:


> Wrong pic? That's a female Gongy.
> 
> I believe Idolos do best in their natural habitat during the rainy season. This species does so much better in humid conditions.


No its correct, I just had the Gongylus in there for better heat. Once they bred I switched them with the Idolos. According to that chart I posted a few weeks ago, it should be around 60% with an increase to ~70% during the rainy season (into adulthood). Great luck that the night they molt is the night I forget to spray.

The mantid got out fine, I checked the skin and it was normal with no breaks, bends, or limbs still in there.

Could have been a sabotage of some sort by a disgruntled cage mate...


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## sporeworld (Nov 1, 2010)

It seems, from my experiences, that the higher humdidity helps, but none of my mismolts were still IN their skins when I found them. They all seemed to suffer mishaps during repositioning. Two of them had completely extended wings, just not perfectly folded. Even the one I watched molt into adult on the side of the enclosure got out fine, and crumpled afterwards.

I think tons of very soft, spongy material on the bottom might have saved some of mine. I've seen ghosts (obviously less massive) fall about 2 feet and then just crawl back up, right as rain and finish drying. I think the Idols are "breaking" during their fall, and hardening their skin in a mangled heap. And I'm not sure screen or twig make a difference...


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## naeff002 (Nov 1, 2010)

I had a mis mold to last night. Sub adult Idolo to Adult. She came out her old skin, but her front legs where bent en 2 other legs to. She can't stand. I have changed there inclosure today, with more branches and on the sides of the inclosure I placed gauze.


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## guapoalto049 (Nov 3, 2010)

Idolo #3 molted perfectly some time last night from the twigs and leaves. The humidity was ~50% when I woke up. They are 2/2 molting from the twigs and leaves, 0/1 from the metal screen. Just an observation.

On a side note, apparently I didn't get the memo that it was mantis activities night. My runt armless violin molted to a nice 3.5" adult, 2 female shields molted nicely to adulthood, obviously the Idolo, two budwings molted, and a Chinese ooviposited again. Yesssssssss


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## naeff002 (Nov 3, 2010)

Would it be better when I place a musquito screen over the metal screen. Or doesn't make that any different.


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## yen_saw (Nov 3, 2010)

guapoalto049 said:


> Idolo #3 molted perfectly some time last night from the twigs and leaves. The humidity was ~50% when I woke up. They are 2/2 molting from the twigs and leaves, 0/1 from the metal screen. Just an observation.
> 
> On a side note, apparently I didn't get the memo that it was mantis activities night. My runt armless violin molted to a nice 3.5" adult, 2 female shields molted nicely to adulthood, obviously the Idolo, two budwings molted, and a Chinese ooviposited again. Yesssssssss


Congrate guapoalto049! Similar to you I have better molting rate on twigs than mesh screen.


naeff002 said:


> Would it be better when I place a musquito screen over the metal screen. Or doesn't make that any different.


 It would be better than metal screen. You can use pantyhose or just add more twigs, but keep the cage warm and humidity high. Good luck.


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## Precarious (Nov 3, 2010)

Sorry about the fall.


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## paddythemic (Nov 4, 2010)

what if you changed your "flooring" to a fine net with a bit of sag in it?

by the way:

at 80f and 60% with house fly, moth or soldier fly - 3x's a week

my idolos are -

L3 to L4 20 day span

L4 to L5 20 day span

***can i expect another 20 day span to L6 ?


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## guapoalto049 (Nov 7, 2010)

paddythemic said:


> what if you changed your "flooring" to a fine net with a bit of sag in it?
> 
> by the way:
> 
> ...


I haven't kept track of their days between sheds, though I didn't notice a longer period for L6 than L5. The change of flooring may be something that could help!


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## kitkat39 (Nov 8, 2010)

How big is that tank you are keeping it in? A 10 gallon tank or more of a 20 gallon tank?


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## guapoalto049 (Nov 10, 2010)

kitkat39 said:


> How big is that tank you are keeping it in? A 10 gallon tank or more of a 20 gallon tank?


10 gallon @ 12" high x 10" deep x 20" long


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## sporeworld (Dec 2, 2010)

Just to illustrate my point about how the Idols seem to at least PREFER the heat, if not actually NEEEDING it. They would huddle under the warmest possible spots, until I decided to just increase the heat throughout and let them climb don't if they had an issue with it (which they didn't). As I mentioned in an earlier post, it was 100 degrees where their feet were, which had me concerned, but they didn't seem bothered at all.


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## naeff002 (Dec 2, 2010)

that's a very nice group you have there.


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## sporeworld (Dec 2, 2010)

"Had", sadly. Just incubating ooths and my lazy slurm queen now. An-ti-ci-pa-tion!


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## guapoalto049 (Dec 2, 2010)

Sporeworld said:


> "Had", sadly. Just incubating ooths and my lazy slurm queen now. An-ti-ci-pa-tion!


Incubating ooths? You thinking about selling any when they hatch?


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## sporeworld (Dec 2, 2010)

Not planning on it - not for this generation, anyway. I'm hoping to do a number of enclosures and very different environments, and track the success. I got 3 out of 20 to adult last time, so I need numbers to do MUCH better than that.

I'll keep everyone posted.


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## guapoalto049 (Dec 2, 2010)

Sporeworld said:


> Not planning on it - not for this generation, anyway. I'm hoping to do a number of enclosures and very different environments, and track the success. I got 3 out of 20 to adult last time, so I need numbers to do MUCH better than that.
> 
> I'll keep everyone posted.


Nice! Hopefully you can find a method that keeps them more consistently in culture.


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## sporeworld (Dec 2, 2010)

That's the idea. I think I've got Ghosts and Gongy's down pat! And no real challeges to the other species I've had - just these darn Idols! They vex me!

I think we're really close. I think an empty, wide-mesh nylon cage, sprayed or fogged would work just fine. Even temp doesn't seem to be a factor here - just the gripping surface.

I think next week I'll start doing designs on my round or hex cage idea. I may make it like a wheel, with the "hub" ALSO made of nylon. Does that make any sense...? Does anyone here use Google Sketchup...? So hard to describe - I may just need to design it and post the rendering. Grr...


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## paddythemic (Dec 2, 2010)

why nylon?

do you ever try fabric netting? mosquito type.


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## sporeworld (Dec 3, 2010)

Actually, I'm just assuming it's nylon - my bad. Looks synthetic.

I've got a few gauges of mesh (or netting) that can all hold in Blue Bottles - some that can hold houseflies. I've got one cage now that has very, very thin screen on it - I'd be shocked if it was actually metal (cuts like butter).

I've also got a number of sample vines that are plenty thin enough, but i think I'm going to stick with the mesh. Unlike other enclosures I've used, I don't think I'm going to put any effort whatsoever into making it resemble their natural habitat. Like I said, I'll post more as I get a little closer and look for everyone's feedback...


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## guapoalto049 (Dec 8, 2010)

Update: female is almost completely out of her skin and is a fresh L7! She molted from the twigs and guess what? She's fine! I actually removed the metal screen top a few days ago and they don't leave the cage.

Temp: 73 Humidity: 30% (yikes!)

I really think the fact that I put sticks _under_ her made it a clean molt. She molted from a set of sticks and there were more branches about 2" under her feet so it was easy to grab something else (other than the weak old skin). I literally just watched her go from hanging from the abdomen to grabbing the slightly lower sticks with her feet. Very easy and clean, even at sub-optimal conditions.

I'll try and take a pic to better explain.


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## sporeworld (Dec 8, 2010)

That makes PERFECT sense to me.

Congratulations! One more to go!


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## guapoalto049 (Dec 8, 2010)

Another update:

I kept my violins in here to mate because it keeps temp well. Never witnessed a mating, just him getting munched. Now my Idolos are in there, one of which molted last night. Now they've got roomates...an "unfertilized" violin ooth left in there hatched this morning!

I almost crapped when I saw babies!

That female has ooviposited three times so far, so I'll be selling those too.


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## naeff002 (Dec 8, 2010)

I have a few gongs and one copple have already mated 3 times. But still no ooths


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## hibiscusmile (Dec 8, 2010)

My male Idol is still going strong.


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## sporeworld (Dec 8, 2010)

The same one from a few months ago...!?!


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## guapoalto049 (Dec 9, 2010)

I counted a total of 24 kiddies for Ms. Violin.

Female Idolo #2 is currently wrapping up the molting process. She started from the branches, then grabbed branches on the lower layer just like female #1. I'm digging this setup for Idolos.

The sub-subadult (L7) female is around 6.2 cm now. The longest I've kept are Chinese and they're typically around 7 cm at subadult. Can't wait to see these girls full-grown


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## sporeworld (Dec 9, 2010)

I'm rooting for you, mon ami!

And greedily awaiting any pics, vids, fingerpaints - whatever!! Keep us posted...


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## GreenOasis (Dec 9, 2010)

OMG! I just notied your username! "Guapo Alto" ..."the most handsomest one"? LOL! :lol: Now the picture makes sense!

Good luck with those Idolos...maybe you can post a pic of the enclosure how you have it set up now?

Thanks!


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## guapoalto049 (Dec 9, 2010)

@ sporeworld:

Thanks man! I haven't had much time to take any pics, anatomy lab practicals/finals are killing me this semester. Exactly why my updates are all at 3 am haha.

@GreenOasis:

Haha thanks for the kind words! The name started as my screen name during the "instant messaging" days of middle school and stuck ever since. I'll take some pictures tomorrow when I have a little lull in studying. The setup I have isn't anything fancy, its more the arrangement of the twigs that I believe helps them 100%.


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## sporeworld (Dec 9, 2010)

Yup! Thin twigs DO seem to be the secret ingredient here...


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## Entomo-logic (Dec 9, 2010)

You all have inspired me i just cut a ton of corkscrew willow and packed my Idolomantis enclosures. I am at 9 (6.3) individuals down from 15 and I am beginning to get a little worried but you all have inspired me like I said. As much as Idolomantids are talked about on this forum I think the Administrators should have an entire section for them!


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## hibiscusmile (Dec 9, 2010)

Sporeworld said:


> The same one from a few months ago...!?!


Yes! same one, he eats really good too, never seen a boy so hungry!


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## sporeworld (Dec 9, 2010)

Amazing.

My boy was healthy, hungry and aggressive for about 6 weeks tops, then faded and died. Nothing unsusaul or suspicious - I figured the boys just had a short life-span.

Now, I'm suspicious. His last meal (if memory recals) was a local-caught, very large katydid (and a local honey bee the day before). I wonder if they brought something in with THEM...? Poison or insecticide, maybe...?


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## guapoalto049 (Feb 6, 2011)

Some sad news tonight: Both females molted well to subadulthood. The first last week some time and the second two days ago. I waited two days to let the last one to harden, then put her in with her sister who was pretty plump with flies. I came home today to one Idolo and a foreleg, two antennae, and a leg hanging out of the Idolo's mouth  

They've literally grown up together with absolutely no signs of aggression. Then today kobayashi decides to fatten up her already fat abdomen. I was so exited to see both healthy and active...


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## sporeworld (Feb 6, 2011)

Very sad. My only Adult Female was isolated, so she never had a chance to be cannibalistic. Reports from others I've read (and seen pics of) had them cohabitating even as adults.

Sorry for your loss...


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## Termite48 (Feb 6, 2011)

Sporeworld said:


> Very sad. My only Adult Female was isolated, so she never had a chance to be cannibalistic. Reports from others I've read (and seen pics of) had them cohabitating even as adults.
> 
> Sorry for your loss...


I am sorry to read about the cannibalistic event taking one of your precious Indolos. That is something one cannot sometimes anticipate I guess, especially is there were no postings on the forum to indicate such behavior and that especially from one so well fed. I will take note and learn from your experience as I am rearing some ooth-mates, I presume who just molted together two nights ago. In my case, I stayed up with them and sprayed their habitat regularly throught the night as my source of heat is a 150 watt infra-red heat lamp. One Ghost molted and the other did not yet. The other that did molt was a Boxer, also from Rebecca. They did great. I had just purchased a coco mat from Lowes Garden Center. That is the coconut fiber made into a cuttable-into-desired shape for the floor of my 1/2 screen, and 1/2 glass reptile habitat that I have converted to Mantid use. I am sorry again for your loss.


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## guapoalto049 (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks for the kind words guys. The biggest thing that bothered me is that I could have prevented it. If she had mismolted like every other Idolo, I would have been half-expecting it.

The remaining female better molt into a monster, she owes it to me! She's nearly 8 cm now so hopefully...


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## sporeworld (Feb 6, 2011)

Yeah, you might need to look seriously at keeping them apart as adults, just in case. A shame, considering how nice the setup looks, but maybe prudent...


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## hibiscusmile (Feb 7, 2011)

Oh!  lot of pressure on her, don't tell her she is dinner if she does not preform....


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## guapoalto049 (Feb 7, 2011)

Lol I've only got one left so that won't be a problem. And I also put the adult violins in something else just in case she got greedy again.


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## animalexplorer (Feb 10, 2011)

How is your female doing?


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## JoeCapricorn (Feb 23, 2011)

Last Friday my Violin molted to adult and it was the most nervewracking experience I ever had. At one point, she was only held on the stick by one foot and a piece of tape. She had slipped earlier with only two feet clinging onto the stick and I was ready with tape. I had a gut feeling she would fall. The entire molt was me holding her on the stick by her rear two feet.

Eventually, she was out of her skin. I was able to let her hang and give my hands a break. I was sitting there for an hour! Her wings didn't expand fully and they look a bit funky. However, she is otherwise quite fine and is actually following the text on this screen as I type. It is really funny to watch.

Violins are closely related to Idolomantis, both being Empusidae, but are Violins about the same difficulty or easier than Idolomantis in terms of raising them?


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## sporeworld (Feb 23, 2011)

Idolos are WAY harder (IMO). I had the same nerve-wracking experience with an Idolo - they're all fragile legs and bulky frame. But a few of the guys here really seems to have the molting enclosure thing down, so take heart!


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## guapoalto049 (Feb 24, 2011)

@ Animal Explorer: I don't know how I missed your post! She is doing well, gobbling up pollen-coated bb's and lobster roaches like its her job. I can't imagine how much food she'll eat as a gravid adult!

@Joe: I've never had any mismolt problems with violins, not to say they don't happen...I just haven't experienced any problems.

As for the Idolos, I learned from my mistake at L5 and the two remaining females continued to molt perfectly in my setup. They are very clumsy, kinda the opposite of a ghost. I feel Idolos are weak mantids for their size, where ghosts have great grip and are strong+compact.

Idolos are even clumsier than violins, which takes away from their appeal. Just give them space and good grip and they aren't any worse than Gongylus.


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## guapoalto049 (Mar 14, 2011)

My female has some super swollen wing buds. Humidity is way up and I'm anxiously awaiting her molt. Its been about a week of swollen-ness, hopefully she'll start soon!


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## sporeworld (Mar 14, 2011)

Keep us posted!


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## guapoalto049 (Mar 16, 2011)

C'MON LADY YOUR WINGBUDS HAVE BEEN SWOLLEN FOR A REALLY REALLY LONG TIME AND YOUR REPRODUCTIVE ORGAN LOOKS WEIRD AND SPLIT AND YOU'RE GETTING SKINNY AND I JUST WANT A BIG BEAUTIFUL ELEGANT IDOLO FEMALE


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## sporeworld (Mar 16, 2011)

My gal was a really long time - more than 2 weeks for sure.

Can you send us some pics...?


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## guapoalto049 (Mar 17, 2011)

Ask and you shall receive:

















In her cool custom stick cage:


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## sporeworld (Mar 17, 2011)

Wow. Yeah, she looks ready to pop!

I noticed mine felt a little spongy the day she molted, and pretty much ignored me toughing her. I thought that meant she was sick for sure, but nope! She was good to go!

Do you know when she stopped eatting...?

Is that your private molting chamber...? If so, why such a tall enclosure...?

Anyhoo, Keep us all posted... I'm giddy with anticipation... still... ;-)


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## guapoalto049 (Mar 17, 2011)

I built it specifically for Idolo molting. I like the height for aesthetic purposes, plus it allows a little more breathing room if I have more than one in there. It may be a little deceiving though as its only 18" high.

She seems super clumsy tonight so I'm hoping its time. Did you happen to notice the tip of the abdomen like that? I never have in other species but I really think its a sign (GASP!)

She stopped eating about a week and a half ago, maybe 2 weeks. I have an 8 am class but I can't get to bed with such important things happening!!


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## guapoalto049 (Mar 17, 2011)

Btw she's 8 cm now, my prediction is a little over 11 cm as an adult. Of course 'praying' wouldn't hurt until then :lol:


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## sporeworld (Mar 17, 2011)

Ha, ha! Yeah, I think it was about 2 weeks with her, so you're about right. Sorry, didn't notice the abdomen - plenty of things to note for next round.

I have a lot of techie people in my circle of friends, and I'm considering a motion-detector for my next setup (presuming I do a molting chamber like you have). Mine are almost always with me, but not always in my line of sight. A little motion detector that I could ignore when necessary might be comforting - like new mommies and thier nursery room setups. Maybe... I DO tend to over-think these things.


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## guapoalto049 (Mar 17, 2011)

Welp no molt last night, hopefully tonight.

I'm pretty sure you'll be the first person to have a motion sensor in your terrarium lol


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## animalexplorer (Mar 17, 2011)

Ours must be from the same batch, as mine are synched up to your diabolica molting schedual. They tend to get a bit clumsy and they stop eating for a longer period of time than the previous molts. I had to laugh when I saw your recent photo, it looks like a 3 alarm fire in there with all that mist looking like smoke. I'm thinking "Backdraft" with Kurt Russel. "You molt, we molt!" That's funny you mentioned motion detector, I was thinking infrared beam sensors so when the mantid hung past a certain point it would break the beams and trigger the alarm.


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## guapoalto049 (Mar 18, 2011)

Lol if I had a way to take a video I could make the adult come out of the 'smoke' and make it all dramatic!

She shed last night is about 11 cm now, terrifying! I am so happy, she made it through the entire thing (molt, flip, and all) without my help and is in perfect condition. The old skin is still clinging there, so obviously she had a good grip.

One observation I thought was neat was the extension of her sexual organs the day before the molt. Her wingbuds had been swollen for over a week also.

I don't have a national geographic-quality camera like Precarious, but I'll take a few snapshots today and when she colors up.


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