# Intestinal Collapse



## Horatio (Jul 16, 2007)

L7 male appears to have about 5mm of intestine hanging out his butt. Clear and see through (reminds me of when I saw an operation on a snake intestine). I have searched the engine and not seen any topics on this, a whole lot of fungal/constipation/rott stuff, but not specifically on this topic. He is perky, but bothered (who wouldn't be...). I am keeping him clean and comfortable. Anyone seen this and if so, is he palliative? I am thinking of my turtle years ago who use to eviscerate when he was ticked off at me...and what about those sea cucumbers... :?


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## Rick (Jul 16, 2007)

I doubt that's what it is. Got a pic?


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## Asa (Jul 16, 2007)

Great opener! :lol: 

I'd need a pic.


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## babynik14 (Jul 16, 2007)

yes!! post a pic!!!!


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## Horatio (Jul 16, 2007)

I have taken pictures, I just need to get it in the right format, right after I go out for my anniversary with my mantis loving husband. I have dissected quite a few "things" in my years, and I swear it looks like a prolapsed rectum. It is a lightly green transparent tubule that has poop travel through it looking like little kiwi seeds. I spray water to wash it off of him and keep the area "clean." Differential diagnosis??? I know, the picture! It is coming. Maybe I can find someone to email it to who could post it for me...my email is listed if I have any takers...Horatio.


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## Horatio (Jul 16, 2007)

I have sent the picture to Ian via email as a hope to post the picture. H.


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## robo mantis (Jul 16, 2007)

Email it to me


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## OGIGA (Jul 17, 2007)

That makes me think of fish poop... at least goldfish poop. How is the mantis acting, by the way?


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## Horatio (Jul 17, 2007)

28th of June was his last molt...I have been "playing" with him tonight and he exhibits no behaviour that is any different than any other walk about etc. He nibbles at his legs, cleaning. He does all of the normal mantid things (watch him be a girl and make me a fool). He is drinking and nibbling honey. He doesn't seem to want to eat, this is new today - he ate two crickets last night. He is still passing his poop. I have a thought. What happens if it is a premature splitting of his exoskeleton at his butt and what I am seeing is his next self, with the membrane and lysis fluid not yet sloughed off...He doesn't pick at it and it appears to be in good shape for a thing hanging out of his butt. I have gentley moved it and it appears to be him and thus non-removable. He was getting a bit annoyed, I think, although I was extremely gentle. I hope my picture arrives, I sent it to Robo. I also need to follow those steps to do the pics myself, but I think I am pooped for the night, so to speak (sorry, Larry the Mantis)! :wink:


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## Horatio (Jul 17, 2007)

Horray, I think I actually did something technical today! It must be because my kids are still sleeping and the cats are not crawling on me and the dog is under the blanket and the fish are quiet and the ferret is running away with an icecream cone and happy and the mantids are just being themselves AND I just finished my first cup of coffee. Manic mania - I better try other things today!

Okay, so here is Larry and he is doing fine this morning, drinking water and still passing his poop through the tube like structure.

A special thanks to OGIGA who walked me through my difficult brain fuzz and showed me how to post pictures. What a teacher!  H.

Soooooooooo, what do you think is happening to Larry, mantid gang?


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## Rick (Jul 17, 2007)

Can't say I've ever seen that before. He is to molt soon though.


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## Asa (Jul 17, 2007)

Maybe the molt will clear it up.


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## Horatio (Jul 21, 2007)

Well, he continues to drink a lot of water but no molt yet. Absolutely not change in his condition. His "sister" molted today and is doing fine. The molting wait... He use to molt one day before Loretta, but the last molt he was a day after. I suspect since he is a male that things will be different. For some reason, I don't think he'll make the molt...prove me wrong, Larry! H.


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## OGIGA (Jul 21, 2007)

You're welcome, Horatio. A lot of people have been asking how to post pictures so maybe we can make a sticky post with instructions on picture posting! :wink:


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## Horatio (Jul 21, 2007)

That would be a good idea  . I sure like Rick's on gendering.

I looked in my old text on insect anatomy/physiology and I am how convinced that Larry has a prolapsed rectum (no kidding, right...). It states that the rectum does the reabsorption of some of the water/K+ and Na+ (of course, not all). What I am still seeing is massive drinking behaviour. He seems otherwise unaffected (I am wondering how much of the K+ reabsorption it is actually responsible for and its relationship with how it functions in an insect (those electrolyte balances are very important in humans, of course). For the record, also, I have to make sure I mist his hind end or else his poop/tissue dries out - which could potentially be very dangerous. In this text it talks about the cuticle lining the rectum, so I am also wondering what "connection," if any, there is to the molting exoskeleton... And, I always think of infection taking his life as that dirty old poop etc...If I saw Larry in the garden, I'd just think - there goes a squished bug. Yet here I am today, studying him...


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## Horatio (Jul 22, 2007)

Larry is molting! I can see he left his tail end behind - I still don't know if it will be back to normal post molt. Here is hoping! Time lapse...He got stuck in his molt...I'll see how he is in the morning...


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## Horatio (Jul 23, 2007)

Well, Larry died half way through his molt. He basically had no energy left in him, plus a few extra problems. I did a bit of dissecting post mortem and found that his rectal area was stuck to his exoskeleton. With a bit of a tug, his intestinal tract just kept coming out. He also looked dehydrated (which, of course, makes sense even though he drank alot prior to his molt and had a misted environment for his molt). His body proper was all intact and well formed (except for his butt end). The exoskeleton, which normally peels off like a banana skin or a sock was glued to the hindgut and therefore had an major infolding. Not only did he need the energy to molt, but to overcome a stuck exoskeleton. I did gentley help him, which really didn't help him. From being stuck, his head was permanently bent forward and his front legs stiffened into an outstretched position (it was really hard to figure out when to help and when not to...). I did make the freezer decision when enough was enough. Poor little Larry... And that is what Larry's condition has taught us. Thank-you Larry for your little life, little friend! Be at peace...   :roll:   :roll:


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## OGIGA (Jul 23, 2007)

Aww, sorry to hear about Larry. I guess he doesn't have to worry about his health anymore.


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## Asa (Jul 23, 2007)

Poor larry


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## buddhistsoldier88 (Jul 25, 2007)

though this is an old post it does sadden me to read the loss of life. But as was stated his life was not in vain. We learned of a new condition which could happen to any of us (mantis wise)


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## Horatio (Jul 25, 2007)

Very true and thank-you all for your kind words. I find it very useful to go over other cases as well. There have been alot of emotional ups and downs for many a mantis keeper, so I am finding out. H.


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