# I want to do a science fair



## ABbuggin (Jun 27, 2009)

Well since I'm in my last year of highschool I want to do a science fair. I did one when I was 12 or so about mantid behavior when in the presence of others and won the fair (my subjects were chinese mantid nymphs).  I want to participate again, but I want it to be about mantids like before. Any suggestions?

Thanks!


----------



## revmdn (Jun 27, 2009)

Why not debunk the common misinformation about laws and mating rituals of the mantid, to start.


----------



## ABbuggin (Jun 27, 2009)

I was thinking of a more long term project, like over a mantid's span from ooth to adult. I have G. gongylodes ooths due to hatch in 1-2 weeks so they should be perfect subjects (depending on the project of course). B) 

The fair isn't until December/January so I have about 5-6 months. I would love to start as soon as possible though.


----------



## revmdn (Jun 27, 2009)

Well, take lots of pictures and take daily notes on any changes, temp. humidity, feeding, hatch rate, gender ratio(when known) mortality rate, general info on the species. Then figure out something with the data you've collected.


----------



## ABbuggin (Jun 27, 2009)

revmdn said:


> Well, take lots of pictures and take daily notes on any changes, temp. humidity, feeding, hatch rate, gender ratio(when known) mortality rate, general info on the species. Then figure out something with the data you've collected.


That's true, but I would like to make a hypothesis, collect data and either prove or disprove it when done with the experiment. That's what I did with my last one, and I liked that approach.


----------



## gadunka888 (Jun 27, 2009)

maybe you could design an experiment to tell whether mantids will eat fruit( I read it in a book once and i don't believe it. It said that mantids will eat fruit when theres nothing else to eat.)


----------



## PhilinYuma (Jun 27, 2009)

Does the idea of researching prey recognition interest you?


----------



## ABbuggin (Jun 27, 2009)

Darthmantis......Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm wanting to do something more in depth/intriguing.


----------



## PhilinYuma (Jun 27, 2009)

ABbuggin said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm wanting to do something more in depth/intriguing.


O.K. Prey recognition is pretty much "in depth" and not a lot, so far as I know, has been done on a mantis's ability to distinguish one kind of prey from another,and demonstrate a preference based on past experience, but tell us what you consider "intriguing," and let's go from there! Remember, if you use gongies exclusively, your research will tend to be about them, not mantids in general.


----------



## ABbuggin (Jun 27, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> Does the idea of researching prey recognition interest you?


Hmmmm, interesting idea.


----------



## ABbuggin (Jun 27, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> O.K. Prey recognition is pretty much "in depth" and not a lot, so far as I know, has been done on a mantis's ability to distinguish one kind of prey from another,and demonstrate a preference based on past experience, but tell us what you consider "intriguing," and let's go from there!


I was talking to darthmantis in my last reply.  

I was thinking of using the gongys to perform the experiments, but I would focus on "can a mantis.......", not "does the G. gongylodes......". Not sure if I said that very clearly, but do you understand what I trying to say?


----------



## PhilinYuma (Jun 27, 2009)

ABbuggin said:


> I was talking to darthmantis in my last reply.


LOL!  Do you have Prete's book (don't worry if you don't, that prob is easily solved)? There are several chapters in there on the neurology of prey recognition using black targets of various sizes and shapes, etc.

Because of your substantaial knowledge in raising a variety of insects, you could perform a series of experiments that would demonstrate or refute a hypothesis that mantids, though they will eat most moving prey of the right size, might come to show a "preference" for one kind or another, based either on experience or "hard wiring." You could raise different mantids on different foods (maybe three or four types) time the time from introduction to capture of the prey, wait until you get an optimal (shortest) reponse and then swap foods for the different groups and see if there is a different response time (you'd need a stop watch and lots of time, of course!). A variation of the same experiment would be to introduce the type of prey to which a particular mantis is accustomed and one of a type that it doesn't know and see if there is a consistent pattern of taking the former first. The question of recognition of toxic insects, and I can only think of the milkweed bug right off, might also be interesting. I'm sure that you've read about Batesian mimicry.

Wadjathink?


----------



## jacksun (Jun 27, 2009)

How about proving/disproving the outcomes of different environments (heat/humidity/size/feeding schedules).


----------



## ABbuggin (Jun 27, 2009)

Phil--

I do have Prete's book, I actually got it for Christmas last year. I have been reading it (while trying to understand certain parts at the same time LOL) but its VERY in depth. I like you suggestion of prey recognition a lot. I like the idea of comparing whether a mantis likes a certain type of insect more than another, and whether it can tell which are poisonous/venomous. Of course, just as you mentioned before, this type of experiment would be best performed on more than one species...preferably 3-4. Do you think this kind of experiment be best performed once mantids can eat things other than fruitflies? Young nymphs can't eat much other than ff's...... Do you think this is a good idea?


----------



## ABbuggin (Jun 27, 2009)

Jacksun said:


> How about proving/disproving the outcomes of different environments (heat/humidity/size/feeding schedules).


That's a good idea, but doing an experiment like that would result in a loss of many mantids. I'm not sure if I feel like loosing my gongys! :blink:


----------



## PhilinYuma (Jun 27, 2009)

Yeah. I haven't checked Ebay lately, but we're just about at the end of the Chinese and European ooth season. Do you think that you could still get an ooth or two? RThe reason that I mention it is that they are expendable ond the gongies are not. You can legitimately extrapolate (I can go over that with you later) but several species, especially very agressive ones like the Chinese, would strengthen your findings. Perhaps you could talk with paul or one of the Beckies. Hey! You're going to win this Science Fair!

Edit: If you come up with a really good hypothesis, it might even be possible to find you a Real Live Entomologist to check out yr idea!


----------



## Katnapper (Jun 27, 2009)

Hey AB... if you want a T. sinensis ooth for expendible mantids for whatever study you decide on, let me know... like soon, lol. I think I only have a couple left. The rest of what I'd had have been hatching left and right (several outside of enclosures in the bug room, lol). I've been kicking them out outside in the bushes around my house. I also threw 3 ooths into the bushes last week, just to empty 3 net cages for other things. But they're about at the end.  (thankfully, in a way, lol!!).

Best of luck to you on your Science Fair project. I don't have any ideas for you right now. If I think of any, I'll let you know.


----------



## ABbuggin (Jun 28, 2009)

Phil---Good idea about using chinese since they are expendable. But I dont don't see how this experiment could be a "mantis killer". (an experiment concerning the effects of change in humidity and temp could be) Only problem with using them is I will need more room that I dont have.  All my insects and animals (aside from the caterpillars, they are outside) by law of the parents have to be in my room. I also share my room with my brother so space isn't of an abundance...... I will find a place for them though. :lol: I do work at a museum alongside with the lead entomologist, so I will also be able to ask for ideas/suggestions etc.  I'm entertaining the idea of doing a comparison of chinese vs. gongylus concerning prey recognition. One species likes what ever it sees, and the other seems to prefer flying insects. I should have an abundance of gongys, at least 30-50. Since they can be kept together, this saves a lot of precious room.

How many mantids do you think would be enough for test subjects? I was thinking 10 of each species, 5 male and 5 female. Not only could I compare species, but I could compare genders. I don't personally think that there will be much of a difference among different genders, but you never know. I would of course keep extras on hand (don't plan on selling many gongys ATM anyways) in case one mis-shed or something....chinese are pretty good at this lol.  

Kat---Thanks for you offer, a chinese ooth would be great. You can just send it with the other mantids and I'll make sure to send a little something extra on my end.


----------



## Katnapper (Jun 28, 2009)

ABbuggin said:


> Phil---Good idea about using chinese since they are expendable. But I dont don't see how this experiment could be a "mantis killer". (an experiment concerning the effects of change in humidity and temp could be) Only problem with using them is I will need more room that I dont have.  All my insects and animals (aside from the caterpillars, they are outside) by law of the parents have to be in my room. I also share my room with my brother so space isn't of an abundance...... I will find a place for them though. :lol: I do work at a museum alongside with the lead entomologist, so I will also be able to ask for ideas/suggestions etc.  How many mantids do you think would be enough for test subjects? I'm entertaining the idea of doing a comparison of chinese vs. gongylus concerning prey recognition. One species likes what ever it sees, and the other seems to prefer flying insects. I should have an abundance of gongys, at least 30-50. Since they can be kept together, this saves a lot of precious room.Kat---Thanks for you offer, a chinese ooth would be great. You can just send it with the other mantids and I'll make sure to send a little something extra on my end.


Got ya covered.


----------



## ABbuggin (Jun 28, 2009)

Katnapper said:


> Got ya covered.


Thanks! Since it gets warm in NC a lot sooner than up north, my chinese ooths hatched long ago......


----------



## Katnapper (Jun 28, 2009)

ABbuggin said:


> Thanks! Since it gets warm in NC a lot sooner than up north, my chinese ooths hatched long ago......


I had some off-season adult females still laying up until relatively recently. Only have 1 left now... and she's getting pretty old.  

Edit: I just went up and checked on the female. I knew she had one ooth in her net cage she'd laid. It's a small one, but will probably still give you plenty of babies for your project. It's definitely her last one though... she was on the bottom of her cage, and could hardly even move a leg when I picked her up. She's in the freezer now.

I went and looked through the other cages to see if there were any _T. sinensis_ ooths I'd missed. Weren't any others. I might go outside and look in the bushes where I threw those 3 last week... and see if I can find them for you too. No guarantees that they haven't hatched already though! (if I can even find and reach them... that one bush is huge, lol).


----------



## PhilinYuma (Jun 28, 2009)

Yes, I agree, "no mantis will be harmed in this experiment!" I was thinking more of replacement though. I am sure that you will raise hundreds of gongies, the sale of whose ooths will probably pay your way through college, but you will notice that they are never used in the experiments in the Prete book because labs prefer mantids that are relatively easy to keep in large numbers, like the Chinese I just checked E bay, and you can still by a few outright ("buy now") at a "closeout" price.

Learn from my experience, though. A while back, I said here that I was going to take nine ooths (three each of Carolina, Chinese and European), purchased on Ebay, and set them up in three batches under different conditions of humidity to see if this affected hatching time/rate.. They arrived after having been refrigerated for quite a while. I set them up, and next day eight of the nine ooths hatched, completely ruining my experiment, so if you buy 'em, be ready for a prompt hatch!  

I think that using several different species, though, will strengthen your experimental proof.

Good luck!


----------



## OGIGA (Jun 29, 2009)

Maybe you can do something like "Do female mantises always eat the male after/when mating?" It'll "bust" people's myths.


----------



## robo mantis (Jun 29, 2009)

I won my science fair with my mantid experiment! The experiment was "At what tempurature will a mantis egg case hatch faster?" I had one in the fridge, one in my basement, and one under a heat lamp upstairs. I already knew the outcome but i still did it! hahaha! I hope it helps. Anyone who wants to use my idea PM me!


----------



## ABbuggin (Jun 29, 2009)

So far I've received a lot of help from everybody, but I like Phil's idea of prey recognition the best.  I am searching for the rules before I go any farther, I want to make sure it wont violate any rules before I really start working on it. (don't see how it would though) I'll make sure to start a thread once I begin, and I'll make sure to keep it updated also.  

I've been "churning" a few ideas of what I want to do, once I get everything sorted I'll post my plans.  

Thanks all!


----------

