# Abdomen flopping backward when hanging upside down



## wetterdew (Jun 25, 2017)

Hey, a few of my Carolina Mantises have recently molted to L6 or so, and now when they hang upside down, their butts flop down, bent like paper right behind their rear legs.  Basically, their body shape looks like this:

^

Aren't their bodies supposed to be erect?  I wouldn't be worrying if they were curving gradually, but the fact that it is bent so sharply seems like it could be a problem.  For one of them, I tried to get him to move into a position so his body would not be so bent.  It worked yesterady, but now I see he's flopping down again.  I saw that the one who molted last night is also having the same thing.  I don't think they had this problem when smaller, because their booties weren't as heavy.  I thought it was just because they were still hardening after the molt, but it's been over a day for one of them and he's still doing this.


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## CosbyArt (Jun 26, 2017)

@wetterdew Yes their abdomens are not suppose to be "floppy" or bent at a 90 degree angle; however, it is a common issue that can occur but isn't typically life threatening and can be cleared up in another molt. It seems some species are more prone to the issue, such as the Chinese mantis (Tenodera sinensis), but it happens in many species.

See other topics of the issue below or from the search function...


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## Krissim Klaw (Jun 27, 2017)

wetterdew said:


> Hey, a few of my Carolina Mantises have recently molted to L6 or so, and now when they hang upside down, their butts flop down, bent like paper right behind their rear legs.  Basically, their body shape looks like this:
> 
> ^


I didn't have a floppy problem with this species, but Carolina mantises definitely are a species that will over indulge in food if they are allowed too. I got some serious chunky monkey butts out of these nymphs when I had them in a communal set up in the earlier instars. Where your nymphs really fat prior to their molt? As you noted, weight issues tend to be compounded the larger the mantis gets.


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## Digger (Jun 27, 2017)

Jet - one of my Tenodera sinensis who molted 36 hours ago to L6 has the Flop.  It occasionally can prove serious, even fatal.  Only thing you can do is turn the housing upside-down (if it's small enough) and hope the mantis doesn't re-orient itself again to the "bat hang" position.  So far Jet is staying in the "down" position - but it probably won't last too long that way.  I found from several Flop experiences there's not a whole lot you can do.


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## Mystymantis (Jun 30, 2017)

I have had several Chinese mantises that have had this issue. But I don't think any of them died from it. And it can go away with the next molt.


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## MuscleMantis (Jul 2, 2017)

My Red Arm mantises did this when they became old women about a year and 3 months. Then soon after perished. 

If its right after a molt don't worry to much about it, but if they are on there last instar and do this then its about time for them to go.


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## wetterdew (Jul 5, 2017)

I've turned their cups over to deter that bad posture for the past week, but now they should be ready to molt any day now.  So I turned their cups right side up again, allowing them to flop back again but also giving them room to hang.  I fear that the bent body will make molting difficult or even impossible, but I don't think I have any alternative.  I'll post an update.  I really don't want them to die--the male is a nice bright green, and the female is red with pearly blue-green eyes.


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## Ocelotbren (Jul 5, 2017)

It sounds like you've done everything you can; I wish them the best of luck during their molts!  Keep us updated for sure.


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## wetterdew (Jul 31, 2017)

Update: When molting time neared, I put their cages up again so they could hang upside down, and they flopped again, but were able to molt nonetheless.

After the molt, Jebediah wasn't flopping any more, but Eve was.  Both had one molt left, so I turned Eve on her side again until her next molt.  Earlier this week, they both molted again and are now adults.  No more flopping at all, thanks to their wings acting as a backbrace!  They all survived


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## CosbyArt (Jul 31, 2017)

@wetterdew Great, glad to hear the issue wasn't life-threatening for your pets.  A few mantids I've kept were alieved of the problem by their wings too, as you found out.


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## Serle (Jul 31, 2017)

The reversed ''V'' is quite impressive when you first see it.  I haven't had one adversely effected by it tho , have you ......  S


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