# wasps



## gripen (Sep 1, 2011)

does any one feed there mantises wasps? i have never done it because they have large mandibles and can sting as many times as they please. i do feed my mantises bees because they are a great source of nutrition. what do you think?


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## lunarstorm (Sep 1, 2011)

I'm new to owning mantids, so please take my answer with that in mind.  

Personally, I wouldn't encourage wasps as mantis food. I'm sure the encounters happen in the wild, but as a pet owner I don't think it would be worthwhile to facilitate that confrontation. Higher risk/low reward factor (not much meat to a wasp) and there are of ton of alternatives that are better and easier for both you and the mantis.


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## gripen (Sep 1, 2011)

i totally agree not worth the risk.


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## lancaster1313 (Sep 1, 2011)

I have never done it, because of the risk. I also really like wasps and bees and I would like to be able to raise both one day. :mellow:


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## massaman (Sep 1, 2011)

have fed mine bees and wasps in the past and still do with little or no problems whatsoever and also fed them bumblebees since they are in abundance till the cold weather hits!


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## PhilinYuma (Sep 2, 2011)

No serious risk. I think that folks are afraid of wasps themselves. As I've mentioed several times before, the French naturalist Farbre gives a great account of a wasp making a captured bee regurgitate honey and eating the honey while a mantis was eating her. Watch how a mantis holds a wasp or bee. It doesn't give the wasp a chance to bite and rarely to sting.I am absolutely sure that more captive mantids have been killed by crix than by wasps!


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## Ntsees (Sep 2, 2011)

I do feed my mantids wasps. I don't like risking my mantids getting stung and so I remove the stinger first (bees and wasps).


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## xxdreamchas3r913 (Sep 2, 2011)

not an expert on this but i would also think its not worth the risk. like phil said its probably incredibly unlikely that any harm will come to your mantid but i would rather not risk it. and i'm pretty sure more mantids have been killed by crickets than wasps but thats probably due to the fact that crickets are a pretty popular choice of feeders as opposed to wasps...and people tend to underestimate how much damage crickets can do compared to wasps. bees would be safer tho honestly i wouldn't recommend you use those too often either. they are definitely a good source of food and many mantids naturally prey on them, but i personally probably won't be using those too often in the future. i used to feed my mantids bees whenever i could since they were everywhere and are easily caught. the mantids seemed to really enjoy them too. i stopped using them after a bee had somehow bitten my mantid in the mouth and drew "blood". after the incident, some liquid would well up on the side of her mouth. after it stopped bleeding, it turned black and i noticed that she was missing some mouthparts although her mandibles were still there. i guess she either couldnt use them tho or didn't want to since she stopped eating anything after that and refused any food until she died. it was very stupid of me to have allowed my mantids to eat something that could bite hard enough to hurt them. i think i read somewhere on this forum about removing the mandibles of biting insects before using them as feeders and i suppose if you did that, there would be no risk. i considered it for awhile but never tried it since it seemed kinda sad to purposefully mutilate something when i was already condemning it to be eaten. although i would think it rather unlikely for a bee to actually hurt, or kill a mantid, i decided not to risk it at all anymore. wasps are even riskier in my opinion since they obviously bite harder than bees, are often larger and stronger, and can sting multiple times. although you probably shouldnt worry about the stinging as much as the biting. again it's very unlikely that anything will go wrong, so you can label me as overly paranoid, but i would suggest not to risk it unless there's no better options. i would compare it similarly to using ants as feeders for nymphs, which works for the most part but really isn't worth the risk or effort. not much meat in either but they can definitely hurt a mantid if the mantid happens to be careless enough. its really up to you tho! good luck and let us know how it goes!


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## xxdreamchas3r913 (Sep 2, 2011)

not an expert on this but i would also think its not worth the risk. like phil said its probably incredibly unlikely that any harm will come to your mantid but i would rather not risk it. and i'm pretty sure more mantids have been killed by crickets than wasps but thats probably due to the fact that crickets are a pretty popular choice of feeders as opposed to wasps...and people tend to underestimate how much damage crickets can do compared to wasps. bees would be safer tho honestly i wouldn't recommend you use those too often either. they are definitely a good source of food and many mantids naturally prey on them, but i personally probably won't be using those too often in the future. i used to feed my mantids bees whenever i could since they were everywhere and are easily caught. the mantids seemed to really enjoy them too. i stopped using them after a bee had somehow bitten my mantid in the mouth and drew "blood". after the incident, some liquid would well up on the side of her mouth. after it stopped bleeding, it turned black and i noticed that she was missing some mouthparts although her mandibles were still there. i guess she either couldnt use them tho or didn't want to since she stopped eating anything after that and refused any food until she died. it was very stupid of me to have allowed my mantids to eat something that could bite hard enough to hurt them. i think i read somewhere on this forum about removing the mandibles of biting insects before using them as feeders and i suppose if you did that, there would be no risk. i considered it for awhile but never tried it since it seemed kinda sad to purposefully mutilate something when i was already condemning it to be eaten. although i would think it rather unlikely for a bee to actually hurt, or kill a mantid, i decided not to risk it at all anymore. wasps are even riskier in my opinion since they obviously bite harder than bees, are often larger and stronger, and can sting multiple times. although you probably shouldnt worry about the stinging as much as the biting. again it's very unlikely that anything will go wrong, so you can label me as overly paranoid, but i would suggest not to risk it unless there's no better options. i would compare it similarly to using ants as feeders for nymphs, which works for the most part but really isn't worth the risk or effort. not much meat in either but they can definitely hurt a mantid if the mantid happens to be careless enough. its really up to you tho! good luck and let us know how it goes!


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## guapoalto049 (Sep 2, 2011)

Paper wasps are all over my house, so I feed big species once in awhile. They are nasty but I've never seen anything bad happen. Idolos are pros with them.

Bald faced hornets are big and nasty, I've only fed these to my shields and Chinese.


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## gripen (Sep 2, 2011)

another reason i don't feed them wasps is because i am not an expert on wasps. i don't want to accidentally feed them a parasitic wasp that could harm them or my ooths.


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## ismart (Sep 2, 2011)

I feed wasps, and bees to my mantids all the time. I have never had an issue. Just use common sense when feeding them. like for example. You would not try and feed an L3 nymph a paper wasp. Most of my adult females love them. And i only think it's fair the roles should be reversed at some point. When mantids are small paper wasps do hunt them down and kill them to feed there brood.


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## nebrakacinese (Sep 2, 2011)

I one's fed a black dauber to a adult chinese female,about a half hour later she laid a very deformed ooth right on the substrate.As for honey bees,They're disapearing,and no one knows why.We depend on them for some of our food supply.I remember this being on the forum last year.I do think mantid deaths from wasp are few and far between.


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## Krissim Klaw (Sep 3, 2011)

Wasps and I have an understanding. I don't feed them to my mantis, and they don't sting me. However if one should ever break our sacred oath, you can count on me to stalk down its nest and feed the entire colony to my mantids. The wasps and I pray this day will never come. The mantises however have been trying to egg on war by insisting that the wasps have weapons of mass destruction and are plotting world take over.


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## sporeworld (Sep 4, 2011)

Only reason I don't feed them wasps, is that they freak me out. If I could get past that, I'd feed them, just out of revenge! 

I think honey bees last slightly longer in my cages than plump, fluttering moths... but not by much.

I catch bees on the wall, that (as some have suggested) aren't going to live much longer anyway. Sometimes I chill them first, but lately, i just toss em in. Yum!


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## PhilinYuma (Sep 4, 2011)

Krissim Klaw said:


> Wasps and I have an understanding. I don't feed them to my mantis, and they don't sting me. However if one should ever break our sacred oath, you can count on me to stalk down its nest and feed the entire colony to my mantids. The wasps and I pray this day will never come. The mantises however have been trying to egg on war by insisting that the wasps have weapons of mass destruction and are plotting world take over.


In this case, I'm afraid, the mantises may be right. Look at the universal yellow and black radiation sign:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Radiation_warning_symbol.svg/80px-Radiation_warning_symbol.svg.png , and compare it with this pic of a european wasp's face: BLXZ9LFLBLIZOL7Z0HGRDLMZKH5R1LMZOL2RLH8RLH0ZVLKZOLXZSH7R3Z6RFZSRFZKR2LMRJZIR9L

A bit too close to be a coincidence, don't you think?


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## gripen (Sep 4, 2011)

oh my god Phil your right, run!


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## Domanating (Sep 4, 2011)

Believe it or not, i've been keeping a wasp nest in one of my enclosures for about a month and a half. They're quite fascinating creatures to observe too. Watching them take care of their larvae, getting construction materials, hunting and so on. Since then i see wasps as a completely different creature. Like praying-mantis they get used to their owner. I can completely expose myself to them, hand feed them on their nest and they won't react in an aggressive manner. They almost pretend i'm not there. They learn way faster than mantids do.

Besides, wasps aren't as aggressive as many people think they are, you can get very close to a nest and the first thing the wasps will do is look at you. If it seems like a threat they will raise their wings. If the threat persists then they'll strike, however they prefer biting, not stinging.

ATTETION: For people that don't know, don't ever breathe or blow over a wasp, specially on a nest. Wasps detect the CO2 and will become extremely aggressive. if you find a wasp in an unpleasant place don't blow on them, push them out or swat them.

Fortunately i didn't learn this when the wasp enclosure was open, lol.

Ok so now back to topic, in my opinion you can give wasps as food to your mantids when they are fully grown and/or when they are at least 3 times larger than the wasp itself. Wasps are one of the least dangerous foods i gave to my mantids. I already gave mine giant grasshoppers with the size of a fully grown Mantis Religiosa with mandibles that could easily cut a mantis in half in one bite. I even gave them lizards. Am i risking my praying-mantis life? I doubt it. In my opinion mantids aren't stupid, they know which creature could be a risky business for them, and even if they manage to hunt them they know how to avoid possible injuries.

If you stil don't want to risk your mantis life, give them a good sized stick bug. They are harmless but strong. I've seen one dragging one of my fully grown pregnant female Mantis Religiosa all over the place while being eaten. It's a fierce fight but the stick bug has no chance.


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## Ntsees (Sep 4, 2011)

Domanating said:


> ...Wasps are one of the least dangerous foods i gave to my mantids....


I don't know if I can agree with you on that since wasps have their stingers. I've had cases when wasps stung my mantids when I was too lazy to remove their stingers.


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## Domanating (Sep 4, 2011)

Ntsees said:


> I don't know if I can agree with you on that since wasps have their stingers. I've had cases when wasps stung my mantids when I was too lazy to remove their stingers.


As i said, mantids need to be at least 3 times bigger than the wasp to be safe. Even so your wasp might have been a sniper because the only weak spot of a mantis when it grabs its meal is its neck since it's the only soft tissue in that body area. Even if it stings the venom will only paralyze the mantis for a few hours before it recovers. smaller mantids however, might die.

Btw, what i mentioned about "wasps being the least dangerous food i gave" i mean from my experience. I don't know what species you have. I know some are very small and wont do very well hunting wasps. The species i keep measure about 3 inches (7cm) in length when fully grown. So for them a wasp or a bee isn't a threat at all.


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## massaman (Sep 4, 2011)

Have given mine the large paper wasps and ground bees and did not phase the mantis at all in eating it and they just love the bumblebees even if they are somewhat small. I have fed them the smaller males and the larger bees as well and of course parasitic wasps are not a threat being they only after the ooths. They may pose little threat if they are allowed to roam and fly freely of course but they are othwerwise harmless


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## Krissim Klaw (Sep 5, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> In this case, I'm afraid, the mantises may be right. Look at the universal yellow and black radiation sign:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Radiation_warning_symbol.svg/80px-Radiation_warning_symbol.svg.png , and compare it with this pic of a european wasp's face: BLXZ9LFLBLIZOL7Z0HGRDLMZKH5R1LMZOL2RLH8RLH0ZVLKZOLXZSH7R3Z6RFZSRFZKR2LMRJZIR9L
> 
> A bit too close to be a coincidence, don't you think?


Have you submitted that to the government yet? That is the greatest proof of weapons of mass destruction I have seen yet. I fear war between us and the wasps is now inevitable. All subadult and adult mantises between the ages of 1-4 months please think about enlisting. Your country needs you. :tank:


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## massaman (Sep 5, 2011)

the parasitic flies should be the enemy combatants but even a mantis needs back up!


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