# Un-Living Food Options



## sporeworld (Oct 27, 2010)

So, I'm looking at possibly hand-feeding a damaged, large adult mantis (Idol) for an extended length of time, and I'm wondering what non-living or non-animated food I might be able to get away with (understanding that I'll have to re-animate it). I understand the thought won't sit pretty with a natural-is-best view point. But I'm curious if there's been any work on the subject...

Could frozen (and thawed) former live food work? Crickets, flies, moths, bees, etc? Commercial pet foods...? Turtle pellets? What about earthworms or even gold fish? I saw the you tube video with the mantid and the mouse, so would dead vertibrate be a possibility? They eat hummingbirds, so does that mean chicken could be on the menu...? They lap up honey and banana, so could babyfood be introduced...?

I realize there are potential problems with toxins, digestion, nutrional content, etc. And I don't want to turn hobbyists away from live food, But any insights...?


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## Rick (Oct 27, 2010)

If you have frozen or former live foods of the correct type, sure they will work. Earthworms are very messy. I can't see something like pellets working. Even if they did they are comprised of things mantids don't eat. I suggest not bringing up the mouse or fish idea though. Some here get all riled up over that topic. I maintain that sticking to insects is best.


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## sporeworld (Oct 27, 2010)

Thanks. Now I remember that thread about eating vertebrates. So, I'll sloooowly step away from the topic.... No sudden moves..... See...? E-everything's chill.... Nobody gets hurt....

;-)

Thanks.


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## LauraMG (Oct 27, 2010)

I have seen several pictures of mantids eating vertebrates, whether birds or lizard variety. It's pretty gruesome, but it happens. I don't wanna start a debate, I'm just sayin'....

If I were to pick a frozen and no longer living food, I would probably go with meal worms or super worms. They're pretty easy to "force" feed because of their shape. You can just skip the claws and feed it right into their mandibles without much of a fight usually. Meal worms you can do that easily and they're still live, but super worms are a bit more frisky and require some major sedation! The creep me out quite a bit too :blink:


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## PeterF (Oct 27, 2010)

I guess there is always the option of the crickets that randomly die in the tank (if you keep crickets for more than a day, maybe you don't) and are' suitable as feeders to your other mantids.

Though, I guess there's concern over what the cricket died of.

What about raw or cooked meat? I thought someone did hamburger?


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## LauraMG (Oct 27, 2010)

Peter J F said:


> What about raw or cooked meat? I thought someone did hamburger?


http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=19277


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## sporeworld (Nov 2, 2010)

Just a follow-up.

I've recently been hand-feeding newly-deceased flies to my adult Idol, and she's not only "into it" she's started to refuse other food in favor of it. I trained her on Blue Bottles, but when I ran out, I started hand feeding her House Flies (not an easy task). She eats them like hotdogs, rarely using her claws. They are almost exactly the width of her mouth. I killed them by putting them in the freezer, then I them in some water (which she seems to like) or dab them with some honey.

She lost 2 of her legs, so she sort of reclines on a bed of rags (I put a twig above her and sometime she pretends to be hanging from it). She's essentially the slurm queen from Futurama...


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## LauraMG (Nov 2, 2010)

HA! Nice Futurama reference! That put a whole new mental picture of her in my head! :lol:


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## Rick (Nov 3, 2010)

They also sell those canned crickets. But they look nasty and are probably full of preservatives.


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## PeterF (Nov 3, 2010)

Ya, there's a whole bunch of stuff at your local bait shop. Mantids get a lot of moisture from their food, so avoid the freeze dried things.

But, recently killed feeders might be the way to go.


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## ismart (Nov 3, 2010)

Mantids should only be feed live insects. They do not scavenge in the wild, nor they they eat freshly killed insects. They are active hunters. Only feed them what nature feeds them, and how.


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## PeterF (Nov 3, 2010)

ismart said:


> Mantids should only be feed live insects. They do not scavenge in the wild, nor they they eat freshly killed insects. They are active hunters. Only feed them what nature feeds them, and how.


Doesn't that leave Sporeworld only the options of letting the mantid starve, or some type of euthanasia?


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## sporeworld (Nov 3, 2010)

And it pretty much rules out the philosophy behind pet foods in general. I'm certain there is no scientific difference between eating flies Alive, or 5 seconds after I squish em. Several posts mention cutting dead or dying mantids and feeding them to other mantids. So I know the animated part isn't the issue. Also, I'm concerned about ooth production, so I'm sticking to winged insects. If not, I'm sure I could do the bug equivalent of a Boca Buger and she'd live comfortably.


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## sporeworld (Nov 4, 2010)

I have decided that "Sheila", the Slurm Queen is THE laziest eater I've ever encountered. Now, because I had to give her house flies, she's rejecting BB's, Honey Bees and even moths! She just wants food she can slurp down and not mess with. And if I don't soak them in water first, she swats them back at me! Next she's going to demand dipping sauce! She's a trip...


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## ismart (Nov 4, 2010)

Peter J F said:


> Doesn't that leave Sporeworld only the options of letting the mantid starve, or some type of euthanasia?


The mantis does not need to starve, or be euthanized. I have hand fed plenty of disabled mantids with live food, even if they cant grasp them. The only problem with this is it's quite time consuming.  I was to hasty in saying freshly killed is no good. &lt;_&lt; If you smush a fly and immediately feed it to your mantis, that is fine. I just don't beleive in freezing, and then thawing out feeder insects. That just seems like it cant be healthy for them. Most people seem to be having a hard enough time keeping there mantids healthy with live feeders as it is!


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## sporeworld (Nov 17, 2010)

Another follow-up - it's been several weeks now, and Sheila the Slurm Queen Idol is doing great! She's almost exclusively fed on freshly frozen (but gutloaded) Blue Bottles and houseflies, either soaked in water or dipped in honey/water/Yen'sBlend mix. This method has kept her healthy, agressive (if not active) and producing ooths twice (well, they aren't really shaped properly cuz she'd bed-ridden, but I think they're fine).

I'll probably stick to this, but she DID enjoy a small peice of boiled chicken (about the size of a BB), with no ill effects.

I also walked the isles at Petco and saw a number of canned foods for reptiles - grasshoppers and crickets, as well as dried superworms. They were all far more expensive than just using BB's, but in a pinch, I think they might be viable alternative to starvation.

PS: She also loves to eat Blue Bottle spikes dipped in honey. Nauseating.


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## mantisboy (Nov 17, 2010)

Sporeworld said:


> Another follow-up - it's been several weeks now, and Sheila the Slurm Queen Idol is doing great! She's almost exclusively fed on freshly frozen (but gutloaded) Blue Bottles and houseflies, either soaked in water or dipped in honey/water/Yen'sBlend mix. This method has kept her healthy, agressive (if not active) and producing ooths twice (well, they aren't really shaped properly cuz she'd bed-ridden, but I think they're fine).
> 
> I'll probably stick to this, but she DID enjoy a small peice of boiled chicken (about the size of a BB), with no ill effects.
> 
> ...


I went through this with my last male in hopes of keeping him alive long enough to mate with a late bloomer. What a pain! It worked and extended his life by 3 weeks but it meant tearing the abdomen off a live hopper (no big deal) and using tweezers to entice him to eat. I literally had to shove it in his mouth, once he knew it was food it was okay outside of sitting and holding it for him. He wouldn't grab it, instead he would hold onto to the tweezers. In his last days I decided to see if he would eat raw meat and much to my surprise he chowed it down. The key was tear off a piece the size of a rice grain. I also made a solution of honey and water which he seemed to enjoy, but I wouldn't give him more than a drop. Why not just tear off the abdomen of a cricket?

If it wasn't for the fact that I really wanted to breed the female, I would have released the male.


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## sporeworld (Nov 18, 2010)

Yup.

The only reason I'm not straying from flies, is the myth(?) about non-winged food affecting the ooth. And, at this point in my little hobby, I've no shortage of extra flies from time to time. Now I'm putting a breeder/feeder cup with about 50 flies aside to plump up, and just freeze the lot. That way, in a real famine, I can hand feed any other adults until flies arrive.

The two of us are really kind of CO-munnicating pretty well. She poses in a certain way when she's hungry (curious and searching), and differently when she's full (kind of angy looking pose - poised to strike). Took me a while to tell the difference. I've also figured out where and how to hold the fly so she gets a grip on it and doesn't have to fiddle around. 6 flies in a sitting seems to be about right.


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## novaz (Nov 18, 2010)

This is interesting as i recently ran out of live crickets and feed all my Carolina females on some dead crickets that were lying in the tote i just picked them up with tweezers and jiggled them in front of them and they all grabbed and eat what was offered I have tried small pieces of ground meat but after an inital investigation most of the Mantis did not carry on eating it .

Royz


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