# Argh, any advice?



## Mantis_Whisper (May 23, 2008)

Okay, I've had these ghosts for forever, and I really want some baby ghosts from them. However none of them what so ever want to comply.

My female has been an adult for almost a month, her mates about anywhere from two weeks- four weeks.

However this is my third time trying to pair up my female, and I've tried with all three males! I've done everything I've read about, feed the female and male till they refused food, put them together a bit before dusk, kept them warm, but nothing! The female attacks the male, bats him away, goes into threat poses when she sees him, and the male just runs away (even the ones she doens't threaten!). I even kept them in the same cage for a good four hours, but the males refuse to be near her, and she refuses to let them near....

Does anyone have any advice or have been in this sitiution before? I really want to get her mated before she lays and I'm just so frustrated. :angry:


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## Rob Byatt (May 24, 2008)

It sounds like you are putting the male into the females enclosure - it won't woork this way. The male need to be settled and then introduce the female infront of him.

Another thing - leave them another two weeks before you try again.

rob.


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## Mantis_Whisper (May 24, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


> It sounds like you are putting the male into the females enclosure - it won't woork this way. The male need to be settled and then introduce the female infront of him.Another thing - leave them another two weeks before you try again.
> 
> rob.


Nope, all in the males' enclourse, and I guess I'll try again in two weeks, thanks.


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## Rob Byatt (May 24, 2008)

Mantis_Whisper said:


> Nope, all in the males' enclourse, and I guess I'll try again in two weeks, thanks.


It still sounds odd. If you are doing it correctly the female won't know about the male until he's on her back  Make sure that when you introduce the female, she is facing away from the male and directly infront of him.


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## macro junkie (May 24, 2008)

i had my male and female living together from 3rd instar to adult..after the female was adult for 19 days and the male adult for 3 weeks he jumped on her,they mated fine,not sure why you female is attacking your male as mine never do that..Are your feeding them enough?i make sure theres food in the cage 24/7


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## Mantis_Whisper (May 24, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


> It still sounds odd. If you are doing it correctly the female won't know about the male until he's on her back  Make sure that when you introduce the female, she is facing away from the male and directly infront of him.


I did that, but the males just ran away. I mean one did look as her for a good minute, but then he ran away.  



macro junkie said:


> i had my male and female living together from 3rd instar to adult..after the female was adult for 19 days and the male adult for 3 weeks he jumped on her,they mated fine,not sure why you female is attacking your male as mine never do that..Are your feeding them enough?i make sure theres food in the cage 24/7


I had mine living together since L2, all five of them. I moved them when they hit adulthood.

I'm pretty sure they've been eating enough, my female is as fat as can be, and there's quite a few flies in each cage.


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## asdsdf (May 24, 2008)

Never posted this before, but I have a "manual" method that I used the last two times I mated my P. ocellata. Simply put, the female is peacefully eating, and the male is minding his own bussiness, when I pick the male up and gently make him walk onto the female when lightly prodding his but. The male slowly but surely walks on, and the female freezes, and looks back while shaking.(That wierd "wind shaking leaf dance") The male by then is freaked out, and stop moving. After a while, the female resumes eating, and the male just sits there. For me, it was around 5 minutes when the male started inching his bits towards hers, and then mating commenced. B) 

I have no idea if it would work with other species, but it sure worked with PO, when the male was one of the flying nervous ones. When the female MOVED, he used to just take off. &lt;_&lt; So, I used my made-up manual method.  And it worked! Currently raising my 2nd gen. nymphs. I would try it if all was lost.


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## Mantis_Whisper (May 24, 2008)

asdsdf said:


> Never posted this before, but I have a "manual" method that I used the last two times I mated my P. ocellata. Simply put, the female is peacefully eating, and the male is minding his own bussiness, when I pick the male up and gently make him walk onto the female when lightly prodding his but. The male slowly but surely walks on, and the female freezes, and looks back while shaking.(That wierd "wind shaking leaf dance") The male by then is freaked out, and stop moving. After a while, the female resumes eating, and the male just sits there. For me, it was around 5 minutes when the male started inching his bits towards hers, and then mating commenced. B) I have no idea if it would work with other species, but it sure worked with PO, when the male was one of the flying nervous ones. When the female MOVED, he used to just take off. &lt;_&lt; So, I used my made-up manual method.  And it worked! Currently raising my 2nd gen. nymphs. I would try it if all was lost.


Sounds pretty useful... but I'd have to wait to use that method, my female refuses any food I give her. &gt;.&lt;;

Thanks for the advice!


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## ABbuggin (May 24, 2008)

Hope you get things sorted out.  I've never had ghosts, so I can't help that much. If you think your having a nightmare trying to mate them, Tarachodes, sp. are a REAL pain in the **** to mate lol.


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## Isis (May 26, 2008)

Ghosts can be a real pain in the neck sometimes. I've had 3 generations of these and always the same story: the male just won't do it in a hurry. I succeded by leaving them alone in a big container at dusk. The male can be interested but can sit some distance away from the female for days. Then he jumps. You may need to try all of your males, because some are more courageous than others. And feed them good, they are more willing to cooperate and.. theY don't eat the female that way (I had a situation like that once!)


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## mrblue (May 26, 2008)

Isis said:


> And feed them good, they are more willing to cooperate and.. theY don't eat the female that way (I had a situation like that once!)


 :blink: :blink:  

every adult male paradoxa i've come across has always been a complete wuss, the idea of one eating a female is just... :mellow: :blink: :lol: i would love to have seen that!


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## Isis (May 27, 2008)

I also thought they are all wimps and I couldn't believe my own eyes when I saw a male munching the thorax of his bride ;/


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## Mantis_Whisper (May 27, 2008)

ABbuggin said:


> Hope you get things sorted out.  I've never had ghosts, so I can't help that much. If you think your having a nightmare trying to mate them, Tarachodes, sp. are a REAL pain in the **** to mate lol.


Oh wow... I'll be sure to stay away from them then.... though they are pretty cool.

Thanks though. I'll try agian later this week, hopefully it'll work.



Isis said:


> Ghosts can be a real pain in the neck sometimes. I've had 3 generations of these and always the same story: the male just won't do it in a hurry. I succeded by leaving them alone in a big container at dusk. The male can be interested but can sit some distance away from the female for days. Then he jumps. You may need to try all of your males, because some are more courageous than others. And feed them good, they are more willing to cooperate and.. theY don't eat the female that way (I had a situation like that once!)


Alright. Would leaving the female in a cage with two of the males work, or is that a bad move?

My males seem like wimps too.... but you can never be sure.


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## Giosan (May 28, 2008)

Not real advice, but my story:

Had 2 couples (2 females, 2 males) in the same enclosure since subadult I think. Both males were on top of the females almost all the time once they were adult lol. Also have some babys from them, but I think 1 female wasn't fertile.

Both males are dead though. One eaten after a female laid her 4th ooth so she was thin/hungry. Then at night, I only saw wings. Other male was almost eaten but I saved him, but he got a bit weak after that and after a while I had to freeze him.

They lived together for like 2 or 3 months peacefully I think  Females are still alive.


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## Birdfly (May 28, 2008)

Im wondering if they are being kept to close together and the males have become desensatized to the females pheromones [SIZE=14pt]?[/SIZE]


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## titus (May 28, 2008)

Birdfly said:


> Im wondering if they are being kept to close together and the males have become desensatized to the females pheromones [SIZE=14pt]?[/SIZE]


It could be, I know my group of 2,1 has been living together for the last 3 weeks and the males still attempt to mate every 3-5 days. I don't know if or how many connections have been made. But their still going strong.


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## macro junkie (May 28, 2008)

Birdfly said:


> Im wondering if they are being kept to close together and the males have become desensatized to the females pheromones [SIZE=14pt]?[/SIZE]


i dont get it?mine where living toghther all the time from nympth to adult and mated after 19 days of being adult? what does desensatized to the females pheromones mean?


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## ABbuggin (May 29, 2008)

Mantis_Whisper said:


> Oh wow... I'll be sure to stay away from them then.... though they are pretty cool.


Even though they can be a pain to mate, they are such a cool sp. (and their personality is just crazy awesome) that they make up for it. B) Plus, they can be kept together.


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## bugzilla (May 30, 2008)

I followed MJs method and put the pair to live together after an unsuccessful mating and they are fine atm. He's been on her twice over the last week or 2 and she laid her first ooth this week  

I also keep enough flies in there to keep them occupied, there's always at leas 2 running wild in their enclosure.


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## Mantis_Whisper (Jun 10, 2008)

I'm trying to mate them again tonight.

I've thrown about five bluebottles in there, spritz the mantises and kept it hot. (My room is boiling!  )

It's near nighttime, but I guess I'll be keeping them together for the next week to see how it goes. It's really depressing though, she already laid her first ooth, completely infertile.

I'll keep you updated, and I will provide pictures too!


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## mrblue (Jun 12, 2008)

Mantis_Whisper said:


> I'm trying to mate them again tonight. I've thrown about five bluebottles in there, spritz the mantises and kept it hot. (My room is boiling!  )
> 
> It's near nighttime, but I guess I'll be keeping them together for the next week to see how it goes. It's really depressing though, she already laid her first ooth, completely infertile.
> 
> I'll keep you updated, and I will provide pictures too!


sounds like youre doing it right. don't worry about the infertile ooth though. if you check my blog, i had an adult female ready and willing to go for quite a while, but the male was subadult and taking f-o-r-e-v-e-r to moult to adult. he moulted to adult finally on the 24th april. however he had taken so long that she just went ahead and layed her first infertile ootheca two days after (like yours, she was slightly older than a month as adult).

it was slightly mis-shapen, and the long bit this species has on their oothecae was barely there, just a little stump. she also started calling after laying the ootheca. however, i gave the male about a week or so to get ready, and the following week they mated. she has since gone on to lay 6 fertile oothecae (her most recent this morning) of fine size, and the 2 that have hatched so far have hatched around 30 nymphs each. so don't let it get you down that she has dropped her first dud, if they mate ok she can still produce a sizeable new generation for you!

GOOD LUCK!


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## Mantis_Whisper (Jul 3, 2008)

Well. It's been ages since I put up this query, and well... I have no idea what so ever if my ghosts mated. (Incubating ooths anyway.)

So far I've seen a mounting with one male, but no connection, that fellow died while I was away for a week.

However during that time period my subadult molted . I decided to throw him in with the female so they get used to eachother. (The cage she lives in used to be home to all five; they were only separated when they hit adulthood.) I came back later and the male had mounted the female. He's only nine days into adulthood and already rearing to go; I would guess. He's been mounted on her for three hours, no connection so far, but I will be checking in on them every hour or so. They're roaming my room, just in case my female feels hungry after he takes off.

I'll post some pictures when my camrea decides not to die on me again.

-Andrea


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