# My First Mismolt



## Ocelotbren (Mar 27, 2017)

I have a male and a female Chinese mantis and the male successfully molted to what I think may be L7 last week.  He has fairly prominent wing buds but being new to this, I don't know if they are prominent enough for him to molt to adult next time or not.

Anyway, the female molted to the same instar last night, but it appears that she fell.  In the morning, I saw her exuvia hanging from the lid where she apparently molted, and saw her clinging to a stick below it, almost touching the ground.  Uh oh.

Her forearms seem to be okay and her front two back legs seem to be normal and functioning, but her back two back legs not so much.  One of them she almost seems like she wants to use, because she can put it as a fairly normal angle and put her foot on the stick, but I'm not positive it's actually gripping it.  The other one is quite messed up and unless she actively holds it up while hanging from the stick, it dangles at a very awkward angle.  Lastly, her body SEEMS okay although I'm not convinced yet.  She may have a slight kink at the joint between the abdomen and the thorax, if that's possible, but I am not positive it isn't just how she's sitting right now.  However, I assume only time will tell if she has any internal damage.

I will post a picture perhaps tomorrow when she's ready to be handled unless she moves to a better position tonight that would show her issues better in a picture.

I know that it is possible to molt successfully from two feet although probably riskier, so if she doesn't have any internal damage, is it recommended to let her try it?

Also, this was her first molt in her new, much larger (12"x12"18") enclosure.  She chose a spot on the lid nowhere near anything that she could grab onto after completing the molt.  Is this normal?  I admit there aren't a lot of things to grab onto when hanging from the lid, but there are a few obvious choices and it didn't even occur to me that she might not pick them.  There's quite a bit of open space - should I add more sticks and objects to create more gripping surfaces to move to after molting from the lid, to prevent this from happening again?

Feeling a bit upset about this since it is my first time experiencing a mismolt.  Seeing her struggle with her mangled back legs is pretty hard on me and I'm feeling guilty for not having provided more molting options.  I was watching her all day yesterday, knowing she was going to molt soon, and she spent a lot of time hanging next to a vertical stick, which I considered one of the obvious molting locations.  And yet, this morning the exuvia was dangling nowhere near that spot, or any other gripping surface for her to transition to.  

Thanks in advance for your opinions everyone.  I'll post a picture as soon as I can get a good one.


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## Serle (Mar 27, 2017)

I have seen all instars moult from the top of enclosures  , they could grab with the hind legs in all cases.  I f they are going to fall they will fall from any thing/ height..... S


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## Ocelotbren (Mar 28, 2017)

Thanks Serle.

I took a few pictures this morning which I've attached.  Any opinions on her chances of survival based on how she looks?  She can't really hold her abdomen up when standing but when hanging she looks almost normal.  She can get one of the damaged legs to grab surfaces too I think if she manages to find the right angle to put it at.  I'm worried she'll have a hard time hunting though because she'll have to let go with her forearms to catch prey and she seems tentative.


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## Teamonger (Mar 28, 2017)

I'd let her try. I have one mantis that completely lost the back half of both back legs and she molted fine and has weird half stubby leg/feet now. They seem fine with hanging using those two front back legs.


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## Ocelotbren (Mar 28, 2017)

Teamonger said:


> I'd let her try. I have one mantis that completely lost the back half of both back legs and she molted fine and has weird half stubby leg/feet now. They seem fine with hanging using those two front back legs.


That is good to hear.  Out of curiosity, did the new stubs actually have the feet/tarsi for gripping?


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## Serle (Mar 28, 2017)

They are really  creative here is my one armed Jack . She clamps every thing to the ground if it is too big to hold up .... S


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## crabbypatty (Mar 29, 2017)

The missmolt doesn't look too bad. I've had mine missmolt with two mangled raptors, I had to cut her free. She lost her antenna and her front claws, she regrew everything, they're a bit small but they'll get bigger on the next molt. Yours looks great compared to what mine looked like, haha.


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## Teamonger (Mar 29, 2017)

Yup I meant to take pics of mine for you last night but got distracted failing for the millionth time to build nice custom mantis houses lol. 

Regardless yes the tarsi seem to be the first things to grow back. Both of her nub legs end in a freaky little mantis foot that can grip fine.


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## Ocelotbren (Mar 29, 2017)

Teamonger said:


> Regardless yes the tarsi seem to be the first things to grow back. Both of her nub legs end in a freaky little mantis foot that can grip fine.


Oh that is cool.

Thanks guys, that makes me feel better.

My main concern right now is that she hasn't shown any interest in food and it's been two days since she molted.  Up until now, her and the male have both eaten the food I provide one day after molting, including when the male molted to this same instar.  Yesterday I put her in a smaller enclosure with house flies but she showed no interest, and in fact they even landed on her and she didn't react.  That seemed weird to me.

She took some water yesterday morning and honey water last night though at least.  Hoping she just needs more time still before she's ready to eat.  Is it possible she doesn't feel comfortable enough to eat yet because of her legs?  I'm still a bit worried there's an internal issue but I'll give her more time.


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## izbiggs (Mar 29, 2017)

@Ocelotbren Have you tried feeding her with tweezers or using the thumbtack method (where you basically impale the fly on a thumbtack and put the thumbtack in clay so the mantis can just eat without using their raptors)? Maybe she's feeling a little insecure. You can also squish the guts out of a feeder and put it up to her mouth. I hope she gets better soon!


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## Ocelotbren (Mar 30, 2017)

@izbiggs I have offered her prey with tweezers a few times but she's never been one to grab things from tweezers before.  I also tried sticking a fly in honey on the end of a toothpick and same thing, she isn't interested.  With her I've always had to either put the prey in her enclosure, or set it on the table in front of her until she notices it.

This morning, I had her and a fly with messed up wings on the table with a small container over them and she tracked the fly and attempted to catch it many times but always missed, even easy shots.  Really frustrating to watch!  I have three theories as to why she keeps missing...

1. It's her first time hunting with her newly larger forearms after molting and she's clumsy

2. She's still uncomfortable with her back legs and it's making her unnecessarily tentative when hunting

3. There is a slight issue with her forearms - she does seem to hold them at a slight angle instead of perfectly straight when they're in front of her so it is possible they're a bit askew and it affects her aim?

I think my next step will be to try the thumb tack method so that the prey doesn't keep walking away when she misses.

The good news is that she has shown interest in food anyway!  Now if only she could catch it...


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## Ocelotbren (Mar 30, 2017)

SHE ATE!  

I embedded a thumb tack in a glob of hot glue since that's all I had and stuck a small cricket on it.  And she grabbed it first try!  I don't know what it is, but having it on the ground in front of her instead of dangling from unsteady tweezers makes the difference apparently.

I gave her two more small crickets after that and she missed the second two on the first try but got them on the second try.  I did notice that when she missed, she fell forward on her forearms as if she had lost her balance while reaching, and it took her a bit to sit back up and be ready to try again.  Once the cricket was in her arms though, she was good to go.

Thank you @izbiggs for the thumb tack suggestion.  I had read about the method on here but didn't think to try it since it was originally meant for mantids with damaged or missing forearms.  But it ended up being the perfect way to present easy-to-grab prey in front of her too.


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## Zeppy44 (Mar 30, 2017)

Woot!!! So glad that worked for you!       :clap:


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## Teamonger (Mar 30, 2017)

Yay! Its always such a relief when you finally get them to eat after such trauma.


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## izbiggs (Mar 30, 2017)

@Ocelotbren Yayyyy!! So happy for both of you!  :clap:


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## Ocelotbren (Mar 31, 2017)

Thank you everyone!  I had a harder time getting her to eat this morning but I tried again after a while and she is eating right now.  I have decided it was harder today because with her energy, she's back to her old self, only able to think of exploring and climbing when she's out of her enclosure.  Sometimes I will stick wiggling prey right in front of her and she'll step on it on her way to her ultimate goal - the top of the enclosure.

Looks like she is feeling much better.     Thanks again for the support.


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