# Paypal advice...anyone? (Those USING paypal may want a look)



## Ian

Okay, I have struck somewhat of a...predicament with paypal that I am hoping some of you might be able to reassure me about, or give me some idea of what to expect?

Anyway, I purchased some goods from a guy in the UK (Mr Moen, living in Oxford, so he said) who was supposedly part of a company selling electrical goods. I found this guy on a wholesale website, so just assumed he was a reputable dealer. I looked at his registered business number, etc, and saw his credit reports on UKdata.com, and came to a conclusion that he was a legitimate guy, despite the fact his prices were VERY low.

So, I went ahead and purchased the products I wanted, which came to £250. ($450). Anyway, I was a little suspicious about him, as he kept sending me these typical lovely, I want to have a relationship with you "business partner" emails. So, the day after I sent the $455 to him, I filed a claim with paypal, just in case I did not recieve my items. The paypal buyer protection claim insures you up to £1000 for any transaction made via paypal (there are obviously some other terms with paypal on the buyer protection claim, but none that are appropriate for the transaction.)

Anyway, 3 days passed and he said my items were on the way. I believed him. However, I recieved another email from him, 5 days passed, and he said:

"How are you and business today? I know you are kind of wondering and worried over your ipod nano but not to worry because we just conluded your shipping arrangement right now. Infact, as a result of high demand, our Uk office became short of stock hence, my cEO adviced that we ship from our Florida office and because we know you will order more as result of our last chatting, we had to ship 20 units."

My arse! Anyway I went along with this, and said yes I will send you the payment ASAP via Western Union (obviosuly I wasn't going to, but was waiting until my claim had finished on paypal.) Anyway there were 4 days left until the claim I escalated with paypal (for the $450 I sent) was over, and if this man (Mr Moen) did not make any replies to the claim as to why he should keep the money, I would recieve a full refund.

So I waited.

No replies were made by Mr Doen for the transaction.

And the 3rd July came (today) and I was getting rather excited about recieving my £250 back that I was almost now certain I had been scammed out of. However, come 16:32, I recieved this email from paypal:

"Dear Ian Batten,

We have concluded our investigation into your Buyer Claim.

We have decided in your favour and have recovered funds from the seller."

I was thinking at this point....bingo, I have my money back. But it was followed by this:

"We were able to recover $14.81 USD, and this amount has been credited to you."

At this point, I am thinking, oh my god...is this a joke? I soon realised that no, it wasnt a joke, but decided not to go off and cry in a dark corner, as that would not resolve anything. So, what the heck has happened to the rest of my money?

Well apparently there wasn't sufficient funds in his paypal account to refund me the full amount...so what happens now? I have read some terribly distressing stories online of this happening to people over amounts in the thousands...and them not recieving a full refund.

Has this ever happend to anyone? If not, anyone got any idea if I WILL recieve the rest of my money back? Its really hacked me off. But I guess if you don't take risks as such, then you will never blank out the fake sellers in this market.


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## Johnald Chaffinch

there must be some contact details or something? expain that you'd get the police involved if you dont get your money back. i dunno :?


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## Rick

Some people wonder why I won't use paypal.


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## Ian

Yea, its pretty dam dodgey when dealing with large sums of money!


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## julian camilo

its not paypal with the problem, its untrustworthy people.

EDIT: forgot to say, very sorry this has happened to you ian, its a terrible situation to be in i imagine. good luck.


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## wuwu

i'm very sorry that that happened to you ian. hopefully you'll get the rest of your money back.

paypal should have some sort of buyer/seller rating system like ebay. i don't buy stuff from people who have a rating of less than 98% on ebay and they have to have a good number of feedbacks.


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## Rick

> its not paypal with the problem, its untrustworthy people.EDIT: forgot to say, very sorry this has happened to you ian, its a terrible situation to be in i imagine. good luck.


I've seen many things like this when paypal was the method of payment. Paypal paid him a whole $14. So people expect paypal to get them their money back in these situations and as you see it didn't happen. The whole thing sounded like a scam straight from the beginning. Seen it before. You have to be careful when buying/selling online especially when using paypal. This is why I will not use paypal to buy or sell anything. Good luck.


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## Lukony

I am going out on a limb and guessing here Ian but, paypal probably credited his account with the money that you sent. Immediatly he spent a good chunk of the money and only had that $14.00 left on the account from the transaction. That is a total guess though. Since paypal isn't going to just have a stock pile of money to hand out. They take that money back from the account that you sent it too and all they could get was what was left on that account.


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## julian camilo

> its not paypal with the problem, its untrustworthy people.EDIT: forgot to say, very sorry this has happened to you ian, its a terrible situation to be in i imagine. good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen many things like this when paypal was the method of payment. Paypal paid him a whole $14. So people expect paypal to get them their money back in these situations and as you see it didn't happen. The whole thing sounded like a scam straight from the beginning. Seen it before. You have to be careful when buying/selling online especially when using paypal. This is why I will not use paypal to buy or sell anything. Good luck.
Click to expand...

it did sound like a scam, but i guess we say this with hindsight. what i mean is i dont think paypal should be expected to pay you back what somebody else has scammed you out of. in a perfect world they would understand your plight, and refund you from their millions and millions. but this a big company with a neglible moral concience. ive heard many bad stories with paypal too, and also people complaining at their complete lack of helpfulness with problems that arise, such as this situation. but what i am trying to say is if both parties trust each other absolutely, then there is nothing wrong with using paypal. however, with large amounts of money sent to someone who you might not trust 100%, then yes paypal is not the best option. i just think it is wrong to completely refuse to use it ever, even when you fully trust the other person.

actually, i think refusing to use paypal is a reasonable stance to take.


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## rlechols

My question is, when this guy gets $$ deposited in his Paypal acct next time, will Paypal confiscate the funds and send you the rest of the money? It only seems reasonable that they should do so. Good luck!


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## Ian

Thanks guys. Although, the thing that threw me, is that it clearly states, i a buyer has buyer protection, they are insured up to £1000. I have buyer protection, and am UK varified...but still did not recieve the full amount I lost.

But yes, apparently what happens is his paypal account has been frozen, and any payments he recieves will be immediately forwarded to me. But, it is almost certain he will scrap that paypal account!


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## bruty2fruity

if i were you id email them, or even phone them and tell them the exact amount. get a bank balanace with the paypal transaction amount and tell them that yo have been short changed. i had a similar thing. once you prove what you payed they usually deliver the goods. either way thats why i hooked up a credit card to paypal...if gets bad, i have fraud protection - i know ur only young but maybe food for thought when ur older


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## Ian

Well that is what I don't understand...I do have fraud protection as I am varified up to 46 members!

Oh well, screw that man, I don't think paypal will give it back to me, but hey, its only £250


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## bruty2fruity

i should slap you...£250 could do your business even more money. its like being robbed and letting it happen. get the money back u earned it! dont just be a victim or lethargy


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## 13ollox

Bad Luck Ian !!! Take it they didnt arrive then ! when you was telling me about it it seemed pretty real untill the florida BullS**T cropped up . Don't let your money go though . think of the amount of gigs you could go too with that !!! heck you could probaly fly to the states and back for that price !


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## Ian

Haha, I know...it does annoy me the thought that it has taken me AGES to earn that. But literally, there is no way I can get it back. Paypal can't (unless this guy recieves more funds into his paypal account which will automatically be sent back to me...until I have received the full £250), and I don't have his email adress, now he has closed down that account, I don't have his real adress, as he told me that was a cover just for the wholesale website, and for all I know, this guy lives in Nigeria!


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## jandl2204

What i find quite funny about paypal's offer (that they will send funds to you from his account if any arrive) is that if the person who sent the funds was also conned then just how will they get there funds back?

Seems backward to me.

Lee


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## bruty2fruity

yeah just gotta be carefull i spose. the more u back urself up, the better it will be. but ur right sitting in the corner crying wont help. im sure ull get some karma back for that one day


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## DeShawn

I used to hate paypal for something similar. People would send me money, get the product, and then claim their account was "hacked", someone else used their account without their permission, or they never received what they paid for. Being I was selling digital goods at the time, there was no tracking number I could use to prove they got what they paid for. Paypal would give them their money back and I would be screwed, sometimes in the hundreds.

I don't want to jinx myself, but its been quite a few years since I have had any problems like that. Just have to be more cautious, and heck... it would have been sweet if that deal turned out to be legit right? Just a chance you gotta take sometimes.

Anyway, sux that happened to you man. Your pretty crafty though. I am sure you'll find SOME way to make the money back :wink:


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## Ian

Yea, I am thinking now of withdrawing all money I recieve, so thee is no way I can loose LARGE amounts of money.

Making the money back...that has already been done, thanks to paypals partner, ebay.. :roll:


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## yen_saw

Sorry to hear about that Ian. THat's a hard way to learn a lesson. I'm glad that nothing bad happened to me so far through Paypal, is still a great way for me to deal with buyers, eventhough Paypal charged me %3-%5 for every deal and i don't charge that to buyers. Actually, most of the cheaters i have dealed with try to cheat using methods such as fake travelling cheque, check without signature or sending cash (but without cash in the letter) instead of Paypal.


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## joseofsa

on another site i go to this happened as well. Paypal is going to keep takeing funds from his account untill you are fully paid back. Can you drive to his buisness? or his house? I have been scamed by people who are stupid enough to give me their info and only live 3-4 hours away form me so i drive on down :twisted: and give them a talk always resulting in a full refund and many apologies and excuses about money problems.

hope he puts a huge sum of money in his account so he can pay you back.


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## lorriekay56

Ian

Sorry to hear about your loss. I have ben using Paypal a long time without any troubles. Recently though I had realized I had an item I had paid for on ebay that did not get sent to me after payment through paypal. It worked out ok because, I sent the seller an email explaining I did not recieve the item. The item was sent out the next day and it did arrive. Hope you can recover your money.

Lorrie


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## Ian

Another small potentially money loosing event happened today.

Sell Ipods on ebay...usually have no toruble. Sold one yesterday was getting ready to post it off tomorrow, but received an email from ebay today saying they have deducted the £138 I had received from the guy for the Ipod, becuase the money that had been sent was previously involved in a fraudulent case.

Well, glad I didn't send it off!

I have come to the conclusion...I will no longer be keeping money in my paypal account...  

At least no money lost this time.


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## timp

I notice no ones replied to this for a long time, I hope you managed to get your money back but if paypal weren't playing fair and you funded your paypal account with your credit card then I /think/ you can contact your bank and have them reverse it directly back to you although I understand that this takes a while but is usually successfull from what I've heard although every situation is different, cant hurt to try.


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## Shelbycsx

> either way thats why i hooked up a credit card to paypal...if no gets bad, i have fraud protection


Um... I wouldn't bet on that...

"According to PayPal accepting their ToS (Terms of Service) in effect means you waive your rights to credit card consumer protection laws if you want to use their service, and that you may not issue a chargeback for unauthorized use of your credit card and PayPal account, or if you do, then they have the right to limit your account. Is this legal? We don't know. But it's how Paypal operates."

I hope you all think twice about using paypal as your main mode of paying. Read more at http://www.paypalsucks.com/


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## Ian

Roll on Gpay


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## mantisman07

whats GPAY?


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## Ian

I believe it is Google's form of Paypal, or a payment processing method which is very similar. We only have to know that if it is from Google, service will be good, if it is from eBay, we will have large bills to pay.

Makes me sick to think how much paypal have made from me in the time I have been using them!


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## awesomebillfromdawsonvill

This makes me..... blind ....wtih .....rage... :evil:

ill never get a paypall account. cant encourege biz like that.


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## Ian

Yes, it makes me feel even worse when I think about it...so I just try and forget about it!

Oh well, I still use it as my primary payment method just for its pure convenience.


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## padkison

Not sure I follow.

If I send something to someone with tracking, they can't claim it never got there. Is there another way one loses money in their Paypal account?

Also, if you pay with a check or money order, do you have any method of getting you money back?


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## OGIGA

I used eBay and PayPal before. Nobody has been too evil to me, just some stolen accounts people used to send me money. Anyway, I can't think of any way you can get money back when you use money order. I read that people lose a lot of money on Western Union transfers.


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