# What's killing my orchids?



## MantisGirl13 (Apr 17, 2020)

Two days ago, I had two perfectly healthy L5 orchids, one male, one female. The male was eating fruit flies, the female was eating mealworms. Both were well-fed, prey was healthy and clean as well. Today, I noticed the male had turned black (his entire thorax, on the inside. The rest of him looked fine) and his abdomen was super skinny. He had been fat the day before. I looked at the female, who wasn't even kept in the same are as the male, and she has the same look to her and is acting a little strange. I gave her honey, water, and a bit of roach. She's acting even more lethargic now and I can't seem to get rid of the black stuff in her thorax, no matter how much she eats. Her abdomen isn't filling up either, and she ate a fair amount. I'm baffled, because none of my other mantids are showing symptoms, and they all eat the same prey and share the same space in my closet. 

Does anyone have a clue as to what is going on? I don't think I'm going to be able to save my female, but I'm curious as to what this is, why it's only affecting my orchids, and if anyone has had a similar experience. 

- MantisGirl13


----------



## minomantis (Apr 18, 2020)

Wow, that’s strange. I have a couple thoughts.

Do you think the orchids are reacting to whatever the mealworm has eaten that maybe another mantis has no problem digesting? My other thought is, maybe the genetics of that strain just have a defect and it’s just showing now especially if you haven’t changed anything. A very mild example is like people developing allergies later in their life ya know? 
It’s easy to say mantids just sometimes die, but those are the thoughts I have. I hope your other mantids stay fine! Best!


----------



## MantisGirl13 (Apr 18, 2020)

It could be that, but the male never had a mealworm in his life and he died the same way as the female. 

I suppose it could be genetic, but I've never heard of this occurring before.

- MantisGirl13


----------



## hysteresis (Apr 18, 2020)

MantisGirl13 said:


> Two days ago, I had two perfectly healthy L5 orchids, one male, one female. The male was eating fruit flies, the female was eating mealworms. Both were well-fed, prey was healthy and clean as well. Today, I noticed the male had turned black (his entire thorax, on the inside. The rest of him looked fine) and his abdomen was super skinny. He had been fat the day before. I looked at the female, who wasn't even kept in the same are as the male, and she has the same look to her and is acting a little strange. I gave her honey, water, and a bit of roach. She's acting even more lethargic now and I can't seem to get rid of the black stuff in her thorax, no matter how much she eats. Her abdomen isn't filling up either, and she ate a fair amount. I'm baffled, because none of my other mantids are showing symptoms, and they all eat the same prey and share the same space in my closet.
> 
> Does anyone have a clue as to what is going on? I don't think I'm going to be able to save my female, but I'm curious as to what this is, why it's only affecting my orchids, and if anyone has had a similar experience.
> 
> - MantisGirl13




*Exactly this!* I lost a presub female yesterday _*exactly*_ like this.Im presuming they were 'bad' BBFs.

(luckily I still have my 3 subadults, prob fed later w fresher flies)












In addition, I had 3 adult male orchids kick it, but no observed darkening.

I also lost 2 violins some days earlier, no observed darkening.


----------



## minomantis (Apr 18, 2020)

Do you feed your blue bottle flies?


----------



## hysteresis (Apr 18, 2020)

minomantis said:


> Do you feed your blue bottle flies?


Depends on how many eclosed. If I can feed a batch off in 2 days, then no.

When I hatch many more, such that I want to keep them around for a few days or so, ill throw an apple slice in.


----------



## minomantis (Apr 18, 2020)

hysteresis said:


> Depends on how many eclosed. If I can feed a batch off in 2 days, then no.
> 
> When I hatch many more, such that I want to keep them around for a few days or so, ill throw an apple slice in.


Gotya! When I had BBF I would feed them honey water and let them sit for about 8-15 mins to let them poop and then feed them. Figured my mantis would appreciate it.


----------



## Mantis Lady (Apr 21, 2020)

I am not sure what to think.... Maybe the feeders werent healthy.  How are they at the moment?


----------



## MantisGirl13 (Apr 21, 2020)

The feeders seemed pretty healthy to me, but I guess it's possible. It's just weird because the male was still on fruit flies while the female was eating roaches and mealworms. Both mantids died by the end of the day when I posted this thread. 

- MantisGirl13


----------



## hysteresis (Apr 21, 2020)

MantisGirl13 said:


> Both mantids died by the end of the day when I posted this thread.
> 
> - MantisGirl13


Im sorry to hear.


----------



## Mantis Lady (Apr 21, 2020)

Sorry for your losses


----------



## FabioFabiatic (May 10, 2020)

hysteresis said:


> *Exactly this!* I lost a presub female yesterday _*exactly*_ like this.Im presuming they were 'bad' BBFs.


I my orchid has the same condition. What specifically do you mean by "bad BBFs"


----------



## MrGhostMantis (May 10, 2020)

Bad blue bottle flies.


----------



## Jenphilly (May 10, 2020)

Has anything changed in the house with sprays, cleaning supplies used, pest spray for the season? With having the same issue with mantis on entirely different feed, I would consider environmental impact.... I am so sorry for your loss, I know you were looking forward to pairing them


----------



## MantisGirl13 (May 10, 2020)

Jenphilly said:


> Has anything changed in the house with sprays, cleaning supplies used, pest spray for the season? With having the same issue with mantis on entirely different feed, I would consider environmental impact.... I am so sorry for your loss, I know you were looking forward to pairing them


Nope, no changes at all. We don't use pest spray, and our windows are closed anyway. 

- MantisGirl13


----------



## mantis_monk (May 12, 2020)

If the black food in mantis belly smells undigested, it might be protein over load and or if the room temp falls below 75F. Try feeding less and sometimes coat food with honey ans pollen powder.


----------



## hibiscusmile (May 12, 2020)

I am wondering about the water you used. Is it possible you used tap water? Other wise I would say the mealworm but you said he did not have it.


----------



## MantisGirl13 (May 12, 2020)

No, I always use bottled spring water. Filtered, but no additives. 

- MantisGirl13


----------

