# mis molt question



## Schloaty (Nov 5, 2009)

Hey All,

Quick question: One of my (now l3) shield nymphs had a minor mishap with molting. It looks like the old skin never came off of one of the claws - and it can't use that claw right now.

So the otherwise healthy little tyke is hunting one handed.

At any rate, should I snip off the dammaged limb so it can grow back? Will the extra skin that didn't come off this time cause future problems? Or should I just leave it alone and see what happens on the next molt?


----------



## massaman (Nov 5, 2009)

leave it alone and the mantis may chew its arm off and it might regrow in 3-4 molts but wont be as big at first! I know their legs will regrow when they lose them but not 100 positive on if their rapture arms can regrow at all!


----------



## sbugir (Nov 5, 2009)

If it's still attached, it may be able to molt out of the old skin. My budwing went through the same problem and seems to be alright. Unless my eyes deceive me, it could well be possible.


----------



## Katnapper (Nov 6, 2009)

I'd leave it alone, unless the extra old skin hampers his movement or catching food. You can try misting him and gently pulling the old skin off if it seems like it's bothering him.


----------



## Ntsees (Nov 6, 2009)

I'd leave it alone. Like above, I also have the thought that the mantid will molt out of that mismolt. If the fore-arm was cut off, the new arm will be very small and it might not aid with capturing food. In that case, the mantid will have to molt a few times before that fore-arm is useful again. Also, I'm thinking that the mantid might remove the mismolt itself when the fore-arm hardens enough. It's like cleaning itself and if it senses something that's not supposed to be there (the mismolt), it'll just chew it off.


----------



## Schloaty (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I'll have to look and see if it has "cleaned" off the old, mis-molted skin.

Either way, the arm is currently not useable....just sort of sits there.

It sure doesn't seem to have trouble catching stuff one handed, though.

I am keeping it in a fairly small container, which helps keep the prey close by, too....so a miss isn't a troublesome....but it hasn't MISSED yet!

I guess I will leave it and see what happens with the next molt.


----------



## charleyandbecky (Nov 9, 2009)

I found a male Chinese mantid out in the yard many months ago (probably L3 or L4) and his front claw was injured. He had learned to hunt with one claw. By the time he reached adult, the claw had for the most part repaired itself, although he still favors the other one. He's been hunting with one claw now for several months and is just fine. Good luck!

Rebecca


----------



## superfreak (Nov 9, 2009)

i have yet to see a mantid regrow a raptorial limb.


----------



## Ntsees (Nov 9, 2009)

superfreak said:


> i have yet to see a mantid regrow a raptorial limb.


You can try it out if you want, although it's something that I wouldn't do because I can't "hurt" mantids even though I don't mind mantid eating mantid. If you do do it, make sure you start at the lower instar stages (way before it molts) because a full-sized raptorial leg will not emerge in the next molt. It takes consecutive molts before both are the same size.


----------



## sbugir (Nov 9, 2009)




----------



## charleyandbecky (Nov 10, 2009)

superfreak said:


> i have yet to see a mantid regrow a raptorial limb.


Me either...it wasn't mssing the raptorial limb, it was just folded funny and he didn't use it through a couple of molts. By the time he molted to adult he was able to use it again, although he still prefers the other one.


----------



## Ntsees (Nov 10, 2009)

Hmm...I should have taken a series of molt pictures of the one I had earlier this year. Unfortunately it died before it got to become an adult due to an accident. I found it when one of it's forelegs was growing back (the part that was growing back was the tibia and so forth).


----------



## ismart (Nov 11, 2009)

Leave the arm be. It will hopefully fix itself in the next moult. I had at the beginning of the year a L2 mismoulted shield nymph with both raptorial claws stuck in the old skin. Both claws were useless. I fed it with a tooth pick untill it's next moult. It moulted out just fine. I now am raising her offspring!


----------



## kamakiri (Nov 11, 2009)

I've seen partial raptorial regeneration...just the tibial segment for one that repaired to a semifunctional state in two molts, One that was missing the femoral section partly grew back just a stub in a few molts.

Full walking legs lost at the coxae have been fully regenerated in two molts with young nymphs...


----------



## PhilinYuma (Nov 11, 2009)

Ntsees said:


> You can try it out if you want, although it's something that I wouldn't do because I can't "hurt" mantids even though I don't mind mantid eating mantid. If you do do it, make sure you start at the lower instar stages (way before it molts) because a full-sized raptorial leg will not emerge in the next molt. It takes consecutive molts before both are the same size.


Ha, ha, Ntsees! I don't think that Superfreak is saying that in her experience as both a mantid and phasmid breeder, she has never seen a mantis with a damaged forelimb but rather that, of the many she has seen, none fully regenerated, regardless of the instar in which the injury occurred. I agree, but I can find no discussion of this phenomen in orthopteroids in any text at hand or on the Internet.

I think that one or both of us has remarked in the past, Superfreak, that the hind limbs are most easily lost, and in the case of some grasshoppers shed as a defense mechanism and I would not be surprised if the two phenomena were related, though I have no concrete evidence. What I shall do later today is amputate half of the left fore, mid and hind limb of three young crix and see what happens as they go through their weekly molts


----------



## Schloaty (Nov 20, 2009)

Well, the nymph is still eating greedily, and one of it's brothers or sister (haven't sexed either one yet...still way small) just shed....So I should know shortly!

For those wondering, it's not the whole limb that's messed up...just the part below the "elbow."

But (s)he still can't use it.

I remain hopefull that this next molt will solve the problem!


----------



## sbugir (Nov 20, 2009)

Oh, if it's just the elbow, I am sure it will recover in the next molt.


----------



## Ntsees (Nov 21, 2009)

Here's a mantid that I just found outside. One of the arms is smaller than the other and may be due to mismolt or regeneration.

(sorry for the small size, not enough space)


----------

