# Vomiting Problem



## Machinar94 (Apr 20, 2015)

My female Hierodula Majuscula is continuing to vomit a portion of her meal up every time I feed her. I have been attributing this to the 45 degree bend in her thorax, which I thought would be preventing her from digesting the food properly. She does manage to keep most of the food down, which is what keeps her going. She is now 6 weeks into adulthood and does not get sick when she is not eating.

I have been feeding her wildcaught roaches, which don't seem to affect my male so I'm assuming that they are healthy enough to use.

So far I've also tried, but with no success:

- Feeding her honey with her meal

- Alternating to grasshoppers

- Feeding her dog food

- Hanging her upside down and standing upright while feeding

- Feeding her small portions at a time or not feeding her for 24 hours

- Wetting the food for her to eat

Does anyone have any better ideas on what the cause may be, or what methods I could use to prevent the vomiting?


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## jrh3 (Apr 20, 2015)

Maybe try to feed her less. The bend could be sqeezing her stomach,(kinda like the over weight people get the stomach band). She may be over eating or having trouble digesting. I would try to offer smaller meals for a week or so and see if it helps.


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## jrh3 (Apr 20, 2015)

Do you have house flies or bb flies? That would be a good portion to start with.


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## Machinar94 (Apr 20, 2015)

I do have house flies, should I be feeding her a few each day? I figure she needs to keep eating a lot so she can lay an ootheca in the next few weeks.


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## jrh3 (Apr 20, 2015)

I wouldnt worry to much about the ooth, she will lay when ready, i would try to feed about 5 blue bottle flies a day for 2 days just to see. But not all at once spread out the feeding times. Then you will know its a over eating issue


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## jrh3 (Apr 20, 2015)

For house flies about 10 or 15


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## Machinar94 (Apr 20, 2015)

Ok thanks, I'll try feeding her small amounts throughout the day to see if that helps.


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## jrh3 (Apr 20, 2015)

Keep us posted on updates.


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## Machinar94 (Apr 20, 2015)

Will do, thanks for the advice


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## LAME (Apr 20, 2015)

Have you tried tea?

I gave my elderly delta some tea today and she loved it. I don't make it strong, just one or two tea bags to just give the water a tinted look. No sugar

I wouldn't recommend giving her ALOT as tea can Dehydrate in large portions. I gave my Delta a good few drops.

Really my personal opinion, keep trying honey and water, or a mixture of the two together works well too. Ween her from the honey/water to honey/prey as you've tried, then onto real foods.

This was the method I had suggested to mantidbro when his Texas unicorn had fallen ill due to consuming a sickly cricket.

Keep us all updated.


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## MantidBro (Apr 20, 2015)

LAME said:


> Have you tried tea?
> 
> I gave my elderly delta some tea today and she loved it. I don't make it strong, just one or two tea bags to just give the water a tinted look. No sugar
> 
> ...


I agree with everything said here, the tea and honey have healing properties, but like he said tea can dehydrate so be sure to provide water as wellAnd going from honey, to honey on prey, worked really well, vates (texas unicorn) became better... Which is really quite a rare thing when a mantid starts vomiting

Its good not to bother them and over stimulate them too... Keep her in the shade if shes really bad, she may just need a moment, to relax and heal

If she cant keep down honey or water, try again later, dont force her

Does it seem like an illness? Or is it more like, shes just over eating?


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## LAME (Apr 20, 2015)

Another idea...

You could try a meat type of cheap organic baby food. Ive never personally used the baby food on my mantids. However, if you scout the feeding threads I'm sure you'll come across it.


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## Machinar94 (Apr 20, 2015)

Thanks for the ideas guys, so how exactly should I be using these ideas into a daily schedule? I don't want to overuse all these good ideas and make things worse.


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## LAME (Apr 20, 2015)

I would only use it to see if she can ingest without it coming back up. I wouldn't make it a daily diet. More like a medicine... In small doses.  

I do hope she gets better, losing a favorite is the worst.

Do we have a photo of this mantis?


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## MantidBro (Apr 20, 2015)

LAME said:


> I would only use it to see if she can ingest without it coming back up. I wouldn't make it a daily diet. More like a medicine... In small doses.
> 
> I do hope she gets better, losing a favorite is the worst.
> 
> Do we have a photo of this mantis?


Agreed

Id like to see her too!


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## Machinar94 (Apr 20, 2015)

I just posted a picture in the gallery so you can check her out.


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## Krissim Klaw (Apr 20, 2015)

Is the puke dark and smelly or are we talking about a little spit up immediatly after eating?


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## Machinar94 (Apr 20, 2015)

It's kinda light brown/clear with black specks in it, and a little bit smelly. Sometimes its just a little spit up but most of the time she'll puke a fair bit up for at least 5-10 minutes.


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## MantisMatt14 (Apr 20, 2015)

Sorry to hear I hope she gets better! I would try tea and flies. I would stay away from roaches. Also it is a good sign that she is at least going for food. Maybe try a bumble bee (Bombus sp ). Bees are a pretty good meal for a majuscula that is what I fed my girl yesterday and she loved it. Keep us posted and good luck with her!


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## Krissim Klaw (Apr 20, 2015)

Machinar94 said:


> It's kinda light brown/clear with black specks in it, and a little bit smelly. Sometimes its just a little spit up but most of the time she'll puke a fair bit up for at least 5-10 minutes.


How much food/size of the prey item do you tend to feed her in one sitting and how often do you normally feed her?



MantisMatt14 said:


> Sorry to hear I hope she gets better! I would try tea and flies.


Why on earth are you suggesting tea?


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## LAME (Apr 20, 2015)

Because tea contains antioxidants and can help, despite what others may claim. Ive used it several times now myself and have never had any issues. Same with honey or honey water mix.

I know how some members feel about foreign foods/drinks. However sometimes you've got to do what you can to either help your pet back to health or put it down.


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## MantidBro (Apr 20, 2015)

LAME said:


> Because tea contains antioxidants and can help, despite what others may claim. Ive used it several times now myself and have never had any issues. Same with honey or honey water mix.
> 
> I know how some members feel about foreign foods/drinks. However sometimes you've got to do what you can to either help your pet back to health or put it down.


Exactly

Ive given all of mine tea for years, they drink it as if its water, theres are no negative side effects, if anything there are positive ones


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## Krissim Klaw (Apr 20, 2015)

LAME said:


> Because tea contains antioxidants and can help, despite what others may claim. Ive used it several times now myself and have never had any issues. Same with honey or honey water mix.
> 
> I know how some members feel about foreign foods/drinks. However sometimes you've got to do what you can to either help your pet back to health or put it down.


And many teas also contain plants that are touted as being natural insect repellents . . .

Dark chocolate in moderation is good for people. It is also a good treat for your pet rat that can help with a couple of health issues. On the other hand, it is toxic to and can kill your dog.

It sounds risky offering an unatuarl food source as a healthy remedy to someone else without some sort of proof or validity of its safety. Have there been any studies done on tea with mantises? Has there been a topic on its usage in the mantis hobby? This is the first time I've even seen people suggesting it.

I'm not even sure what would be the big draw to using it in this case when things are pointing to a deformity issue not some sort of bacterial infection or such.


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## LAME (Apr 20, 2015)

That's why you study the boxes before going to purchase, just as honey. The thread is directed towards vomiting, judging by the photo uploaded id doubt its deformity related.

As far as proof.. Well, the only proof I can personally provide is proof that my mantids still live and long after multi tea feeds.

My Childs fed my dog chocolate many times, both dark and regular. The only effect at most was an upset stomach. Completely off topic, but I do not believe that.

Edit: I'm not telling him to do it, I simply implied them as options that I personally have used (except the baby food...) and also friends have used without having an issue.


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## MantidBro (Apr 20, 2015)

Krissim Klaw said:


> And many teas also contain plants that are touted as being natural insect repellents . . .
> 
> Dark chocolate in moderation is good for people. It is also a good treat for your pet rat that can help with a couple of health issues. On the other hand, it is toxic to and can kill your dog.
> 
> ...


I have been giving mine tea for years, ive had mantids living 11, 12, 13 months. Its not detrimental.


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## MantidBro (Apr 20, 2015)

LAME said:


> That's why you study the boxes before going to purchase, just as honey. The thread is directed towards vomiting, judging by the photo uploaded id doubt its deformity related.
> 
> As far as proof.. Well, the only proof I can personally provide is proof that my mantids still live and long after multi tea feeds.
> 
> ...


I was told chocolate can kill cats too, mine had diarrhea, thats it, then was better.


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## Krissim Klaw (Apr 20, 2015)

LAME said:


> My Childs fed my dog chocolate many times, both dark and regular. The only effect at most was an upset stomach. Completely off topic, but I do not believe that.


That's actually the danger of solely going off of personal stories. Your dog seemed okay so you deem it as safe. It's not, its toxic to dogs. There have been actual studies on this. It's not good for them, and can and does kill.

You didn't state any particular type of tea so very vague instructions when encouraging someone to try it. Perhaps it would be interesting to start a topic on this since it seems others have used tea.

As for the photo, I'm not sure what you see, but to me the female looks very deformed. Her body is twisted from the bad molt. The fact she is puking shortly after eating and it is light, not dark and rancid, implies to me it is far more likely a problem with the track sinching somewhere along the line making a normal meal back up and causing her body to react as if something is wrong.


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## Machinar94 (Apr 20, 2015)

Krissim Klaw, I normally give her a full size roach (which she normally only eats half of) each morning and night.


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## Krissim Klaw (Apr 20, 2015)

Machinar94 said:


> Krissim Klaw, I normally give her a full size roach (which she normally only eats half of) each morning and night.


Do you know the species? Full size can mean different things depending on what species it is.

My advice would be to see if decreasing the feeder size helps. The fact she drops her meals part way is a sign she is getting more than her body can handle in one sitting. First I would give her a day or two off with just water, to clear out her system. Then start small. You mentioned having house flies so you could try one house fly. See if she vomits any that day. If not, the next day you could try upping it to 2 house flies in one sitting. Slowly up the amount until you hit her threshold and vomit appears again.


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## Machinar94 (Apr 20, 2015)

Sorry, the cockroach species is Periplaneta Australasiae (Australian Cockroach).

Thanks for the advice, I'll start with small amounts of food and see how she goes.


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## LAME (Apr 20, 2015)

I'm sorry, the veterinary must not know much about dogs then... And apparently some of us seem to know it all.

Like ive stated krissim, these are optional choices given by those whom have used them without issue. Why your sitting there and trying to instigate some sort of altercation is beyond me and really not worth the time of feeding into it.

What I seen in the photo is yes, a mismolted mantid. However judging by the view provided you cannot positively id the puking being linked to a deformation in the stomach region. Sorry if ive offended you in some way... Not that it matters.

Its his mantis, I gave my opinion with those that have helped me or friends.

"I know how some members feel about foreign foods/drinks. However sometimes you've got to do what you can to either help your pet back to health or put it down..."


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## MantidBro (Apr 20, 2015)

LAME said:


> I'm sorry, the veterinary must not know much about dogs then... And apparently some of us seem to know it all.
> 
> Like ive stated krissim, these are optional choices given by those whom have used them without issue. Why your sitting there and trying to instigate some sort of altercation is beyond me and really not worth the time of feeding into it.
> 
> ...


Agreed


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## Krissim Klaw (Apr 23, 2015)

Machinar94 said:


> Sorry, the cockroach species is Periplaneta Australasiae (Australian Cockroach).
> 
> Thanks for the advice, I'll start with small amounts of food and see how she goes.


Oh wow, two adult roaches a day would be a lot for any mantis. Female mantises will try to take in whatever they can in a meal, because in the wild they could very well go days before their next meal. Sometimes I think this backfires for our captive mantises because there is no shortage of food. I know you are worried about ootheca production, but there is no need to feed that much every day.

Roaches do make for great feeders though. Since you don't seem to have a problem with them you might want to consider starting up your own breeder colony. There are a lot of easy species to culture and this will provide you with multple sizes of nymphs to adults so you can adjust the size depending on the the individual needs of your mantises.

I hope the smaller meal sizes end up helping your girl out.


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## Machinar94 (Apr 23, 2015)

Thanks guys, I've been feeding her smaller meals and so far she has had no problems keeping it down. I'll keep you updated with her progress.


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## MantidBro (Apr 23, 2015)

Machinar94 said:


> Thanks guys, I've been feeding her smaller meals and so far she has had no problems keeping it down. I'll keep you updated with her progress.


Thats good news!


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## Krissim Klaw (Apr 23, 2015)

Machinar94 said:


> Thanks guys, I've been feeding her smaller meals and so far she has had no problems keeping it down. I'll keep you updated with her progress.


Yay, glad to hear she is doing better. Please do keep us all updated.


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## LAME (Apr 23, 2015)

Krissim Klaw said:


> Oh wow, two adult roaches a day would be a lot for any mantis. Female mantises will try to take in whatever they can in a meal, because in the wild they could very well go days before their next meal. Sometimes I think this backfires for our captive mantises because there is no shortage of food. I know you are worried about ootheca production, but there is no need to feed that much every day.
> 
> Roaches do make for great feeders though. Since you don't seem to have a problem with them you might want to consider starting up your own breeder colony. There are a lot of easy species to culture and this will provide you with multple sizes of nymphs to adults so you can adjust the size depending on the the individual needs of your mantises.
> 
> I hope the smaller meal sizes end up helping your girl out.


Agreed and double agreed. If you have access to roaches you should consider starting a colony. Come cold months or food shortages you'll be thankful you had.

Glad she's turn for the better, keep us updated.


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## Krissim Klaw (Apr 24, 2015)

LAME said:


> Agreed and double agreed. If you have access to roaches you should consider starting a colony. Come cold months or food shortages you'll be thankful you had.
> 
> Glad she's turn for the better, keep us updated.


Yes, there is a certain satisfaction in having a breeder tank brimming with feeders and knowing you don't have to try to catch anything or buy food if you don't feel like it. The feeders can also be rather fun to watch and keep as pets in their own right.


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