# How to erm... end it if something goes wrong...



## infinity

I gather from the way a lot of you are speaking that you're as passionate about mantids as I am... I don't mean as a scientific/ career based thing, I mean emotionally. So I was wondering, we've all have bad moults or diseases, obvious problems with mantids so how would you/ should you make it as quick/ kind as possible?

I guess I'm just asking because two of my chinese have just undergone their first moult unsuccessfully and I know will be incapable of achieving a second and it's really got me all worked up!  Obviously you get the "cot death" for the youngsters and you wake up to find one dead at the bottom, but when you know they'll die eventually and there's nothing you can do to help... then what?!

I guess there are 3 obvious options...

quick/ painful/ painless?! (I really wouldn't know) - like treading on them which i REALLY CAN'T DO

or

slow but probably painless - freezing

or

*nature's way* - feed it to a pet lizard, scorpion, tarantula etc...

Any advice?


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## Ian

I would persoanlly freeze it, as it is will just slow right down, and then eventually die. I belive this is totally pain free.

Cheers,

Ian


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## Rick

Freezer. They die within minutes. I don't get emotionally attached to them because I know from the start that they won't be around long.


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## ellroy

I definitely agree with the freezer but I would leave them in over night. During my enotmology field course we had to catch and pin a range of insects. We killed them either by freezing or by putting them in a jar with ethyl acetate fumes. Some people had insects that came back to life after being frozen for an hour or 2......particularly with the larger specimens like the bumblebee flying round the lab with a mounting pin sticking out of its torso and a large ground beetle which had also been impaled. They appeared dead and did not even move when pinned but eventually came round and managed to wrench themselves free of the polystyrene (styrofoam) board and go about their business!!

Last week I put a housefly in the freezer for 5 minutes to slow it down for feeding, when I took it out it appeared stone cold dead....I put it in the mantis enclosure anyway and with in 5 mins it was buzzing away in the jaws of my hungry mantis.

I would personally find it quite distressing to find an impaled zombie mantis crawling around after I'd laid him to rest!

Thats my ewxperiences anyway,

Alan


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## PseudoDave

Bees in particular have a natural defense against freezing and have been known to 'come back to life' even after days of freezing.

I'm not sure I agree with the whole 'it's painless' thing, but it is certainly the best method of disposal that i know of, especially since it's not like we can be-head the poor buggas, they just walk around wondering what's happened.

Dave


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## Rick

Mantids don't come back to life after freezing. It does them in quickly.


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## Ian

I have heard that is slows their metabolism right down, until they eventually die, making it a pain free death, but, I could be worng...

Cheers,

Ian


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## PseudoDave

Rick, I have no question that it kills them, my dispute is that it is not painless. It depends how fast you're freezing them. In actual fact, a rapid freeze would be the most PAINFUL method over a slow freeze, reason you ask? If the temperature is reduced slowly over a period of time, then yes, it would slow their metabolism (in the same way orchid mantis breeders often keep their males cooler) and eventually once it gets low enough, the animal will die, painlessly due to their metabolism slowing to the point of no return. A rapid freeze in any home freezer is achieved and does indeed seem to quickly work on mantids, but ice crystals 'can' form (im not saying they always would, im only offering an opinion here so i dont need anyone crying at me) in the animals blood and cells before the final moment actually happens, i cannot see this as being painless, ever had frostbite? And no, it's not different...

There is no question that it kills them quickly, which is a good thing, but to say it's definately painless is wrong seeing as the only ones who know this for sure are the little guys in the freezer.

Dave


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## Rick

Let me clarify then. What I mean't to say was that there is no possibility of a mantis coming back to life after being frozen as in some insects. I'd rather freeze them because you know they die slowly over a few weeks.


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## Orin

I keep a decent culture of orange head roaches in a 10-gallon and keep them a little bit hungry. When a molt occurs that means death (or endless agony otherwise) I toss it in and look the other way as a tear drops from the corner of my eye. I turn around in 5 seconds and all I see is a pile of frenzied, happy orange heads and I don't feel so bad anymore. The circle of life seems a little more natural than a toilet.


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## Leah

I feed them to something else, size permitting. Is it painless? Probably not, but dying isnt supposed to be fun.... I honestly dont think dying in any form is painless (excluding being so morphined up you dont know who you are), ever see what happens when the vet euthanizes something? It isnt pretty.


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## infinity

Follow up sort of question... if the ooth is capable of overwintering, does that mean the mantid itself is capable of surviving sub-zero temperatures?

so what about an economical feeding of those individuals to other mantids in your stock? - i guess the bigger the better as similarly sized mantids will take longer to *bite off* bits... a larger one could eat in a few bites (hence less painful?!)

similar question... we all know that spiders paralyse and then *suck out the juices* so to speak, but when they paralyse, is it a neurotoxin that would render the prey pain-free?!

I don't know, i think i'd prefer something quicker than freezing... boiling water? fire? I've never does these things, but I'm just trying to think of quick, 'sure-fire' ways of ending it that I wouldn't be directly a part of (like treading on them)


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## Rick

Freezing IMO is the best way. They are dead within a couple minutes.


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## Andrew

Most of the time I feed my dead/dying/mismolts to my bearded dragon. He loves them..lol.  

Thanks,

Andrew


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## PseudoDave

Yeah beardies do tend to like them, like a giant locust, yum yum...


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## Macano

Add me to the "Feed it to something else" column.


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## divnig

C'mon guys, we're interested in painless death. Feeding them to something.......

Using the "gas chamber" (chemicals in a sealed container) causes extreme discomfort as they frantically try to escape (regardless of their condition). Try placing them in the fridge, and after a while, move to the freezer. It's a bit like re-creating fall and winter, which eventually slows down and kills the ones outside.

Feeding to another? Haven't you guys watched the male idlely preen himself while the females start at one end and work to the head? Hours of fun!! (Kinda like watching ten bucks eat twenty bucks)

To conclude: Buh.


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## divnig

That's it!! We cook them on the stove!!!!

A little cheese, a little tomato, make a sauce, and voila!

 Ohhh, just kidding.


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## worldofmantis

couldnt we just smash it? painless and ends quick.beat the outta microwaving it lol. Its the only quickest way.


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## infinity

may be the quickest but who actually has the heart to tread on something they love (well i get attacked to them anyway...)

just a thought, i know it may probablybe illegal but if it is certain that they'll die, what's the harm in putting them outside to experience true freedom etc? - it's not like they'll go on to reproduce and damage the ecosystem...


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## Rick

Best way is to freeze them like I said. Feeding them to another animal is also a good way however if you're looking for a painless/quick way thats not it.


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## worldofmantis

Well if you dont have the heart to end it painlessly then there is no way. Smashing it is the best answer but I also get attached to it . Letting it outside is the same as jsut letting it die by itself.(mantises dont move much) It wont really experince freedom i dont think. Actually i dont think they know the diference. There is no way to kill your loved pet without heart break but it is best for your pet.


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## Leah

> Feeding them to another animal is also a good way however if you're looking for a painless/quick way thats not it.


I dont think one swift bite is any more painful than anything else.


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## PseudoDave

I reckon when something like a beardie eats the mantis it is over pretty damn quick. Haven't seen a mantis arm sticking out of beardie bum-hole yet pulling itself out anyway  :shock: :twisted:


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## Rick

Well depends on what you feed it too. Only thing I have I could feed them to would be a small turtle or another mantis. Either way would be a slow death.


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## yen_saw

I pinned/positioned the dying one :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: and preserved them, especially if they are adult ....


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## Andrew

When you feed it to something like a bearded dragon, its all over in a matter of seconds.

Thanks,

Andrew


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## Peekaboo

> just a thought, i know it may probablybe illegal but if it is certain that they'll die, what's the harm in putting them outside to experience true freedom etc? - it's not like they'll go on to reproduce and damage the ecosystem...


In your case, there would be no detriment to the environment, since Chinese mantids can be found all over the US.

However, in case non-domestic species, though minimal, there is the potential for damage to the ecosystem. Depending upon whether or not the mantid was imported from its native area, the mantid could be carrying parasites or diseases from that area.


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## Jwonni

used to have lizards and it certainly looked like the crickets were destroyed very quickly, but obviously i dont now and others may not have anything to feed it to.

the whole fridge and then freezer sounds good but to be fair (not sure what feelings they have) i dont like being cold and its uncomfortable and when really cold can hurt

for instant putting it on the floor and jumping onto it sounds like it would be 100% instant and therefore kindest way kinda like a bullet to the head sounds like it would in most cases (people have survived bullets to the head) be instant

I dont own a mantid yet so i am just going on how a see it


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## lorriekay56

I'm not trying to be insensitive.. but can mantids feel pain?


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## Samzo

yep, coz once one of my mantis got a cricket arm stuck under her arm (dont ask how) and i tryed pulling it and it looked at me and kinda jumped lol after several trys i got it out but was deffinatly destressed


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## Jwonni

i'd say most things would be able to feel pain although scientist beleive fish have not developed that part of the brain so ?


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## infinity

I thought i heard within the last year that they had... could be wrong though, but I would assume anything with a CNS would be able to feel pain

wow, who'd have thought that a topic on how to kill them would be this popular... :shock:


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## Jwonni

> wow, who'd have thought that a topic on how to kill them would be this popular


yeah i wouldn't have expected this topic but i suppose you cant really take em to the vet to be put down like a damaged dog


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## summerland

YES... I think a poll is in order... Freeze... Feed... Or a swift smack with a book? LOL... I think as long as you have a morphined mantid like Leah suggested it really..... heh... wouldn't... matter...


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## DMJ

I say just put it on the floor and stomp the outta it and drag your foot over it...its gonna be FAST.


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## PseudoDave

LOL, amen Dave... :lol: 

Dave


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## Brandon

Rick is who I agree with. Just freeze it. All goes well.


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## hortus

id figure being smashed with a rubber mallet would be pretty much pain free because they would be geletin before they could feel much of anything

especially nymphs


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## Ian

yeah...but I cant say id fancy standaing there whacking the heck outa it...just me  

Cheers,

Ian


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## Samzo

Stress releif? :lol: I think if they are small I can kill them but if it's big, freeze it like Rick said.


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## micheleinvirginia

I'm a smasher.

Hundreds of babies hopping up to the rim and I closed one in the cover. Thought I killed it but it was still moving. So I stepped on it. It was tiny. No idea what I would do with a big one.


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## Ian

oh michelle, what a "smashing" idea  ....(sorry).

Cheers,

Ian


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## infinity

*slaps ian for that pun*

Right now, I think i'd put mine outside... they get to see the real world, catch a few things they might not have before... and at night, the temperature drops (this is england, it always drops  ) - so out of sight, out of mind


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## PseudoDave

out of sight, out of mind... and into prison


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## Rib

They wouldnt survive outside here. I put my last one that died outside


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