# how smart( or dumb) is a mantis



## gadunka888 (Jan 28, 2010)

Given a scale from 1-10, with 10 being the most intelligent and 1 being the least, where would you rate a mantis?

I would put it at 6, with octopus and guppy.


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## gadunka888 (Jan 28, 2010)

sorry I posted twice, computer been acting strange recentely.


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## Radek (Jan 28, 2010)

0.

Mantis is perfect working "automatic machine", with no manifestation of intelligence. They don't think, don't have self-knowledge and if they have any memory, it is irreducible. They only have instinct, what motivates their reactions in very simple way. Insects are very good example, that life don't need any intelligence to being perfect. They were here since hundreds of millions years and will survive long after we disappear.

And octopus is much smarter than guppies. Guppies have only memory and primitive capability to learn simple things. Octopus is very inteligent animal and only mammals bigger than rabbit are smarter than it.


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## Davis.Nguyen22 (Jan 29, 2010)

Radek said:


> 0.Mantis is perfect working "automatic machine", with no manifestation of intelligence. They don't think, don't have self-knowledge and if they have any memory, it is irreducible. They only have instinct, what motivates their reactions in very simple way. Insects are very good example, that life don't need any intelligence to being perfect. They were here since hundreds of millions years and will survive long after we disappear.
> 
> And octopus is much smarter than guppies. Guppies have only memory and primitive capability to learn simple things. Octopus is very inteligent animal and only mammals bigger than rabbit are smarter than it.


An octopus can open a jar with it's tentacles o-o


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## Emile.Wilson (Jan 29, 2010)

totally depends, like Empusa's are seriously stupid, but other ones are..... "smarter"?


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## PhilinYuma (Jan 29, 2010)

PrayingMantis said:


> An octopus can open a jar with it's tentacles o-o


This is also true of mantids. Most captive bred mantids have had their tentacles surgically removed, but in the jungle, the natives will often lure the Octomantis with a tethered jar of goldfish. Strangely, though, the mantis can only open a jar with a counter clockwise thread, so instead of "righty tighty, lefty loosy", its "lefty tighty, righty goldfish", which is much harder to learn, and proves that the Octomantis sp., at least, is smarter than humans..


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## ZoeRipper (Jan 29, 2010)

PhilinYuma said:


> This is also true of mantids. Most captive bred mantids have had their tentacles surgically removed, but in the jungle, the natives will often lure the Octomantis with a tethered jar of goldfish. Strangely, though, the mantis can only open a jar with a counter clockwise thread, so instead of "righty tighty, lefty loosy", its "lefty tighty, righty goldfish", which is much harder to learn, and proves that the Octomantis sp., at least, is smarter than humans..


Phil, I don't know what it is about you, but god you make me laugh at least 5x a day!


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## Schloaty (Jan 29, 2010)

> Phil, I don't know what it is about you, but god you make me laugh at least 5x a day!


Ditto!


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## sufistic (Jan 29, 2010)

Radek said:


> 0.Mantis is perfect working "automatic machine", with no manifestation of intelligence. They don't think, don't have self-knowledge and if they have any memory, it is irreducible. They only have instinct, what motivates their reactions in very simple way. Insects are very good example, that life don't need any intelligence to being perfect. They were here since hundreds of millions years and will survive long after we disappear.
> 
> And octopus is much smarter than guppies. Guppies have only memory and primitive capability to learn simple things. Octopus is very inteligent animal and only mammals bigger than rabbit are smarter than it.


+1. Fantastic explanation right there.



ZoeRipper said:


> Phil, I don't know what it is about you, but god you make me laugh at least 5x a day!


And another +1 lol.


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## idolomantis (Jan 31, 2010)

Emile said:


> totally depends, like Empusa's are seriously stupid, but other ones are..... "smarter"?


THIS.

Empusids are really retarded for some reason.

Hymenopids for example seem to be much more "intelligent".


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## massaman (Feb 1, 2010)

I think the shields are pretty smart as well as the giant asians and creobroters when it comes to getting their prey and knowing where to hang out but most of the mantids I raised were all pretty smart and just that few occasions they must suffer from a little brain damage in some of their choices of where to molt sometimes and it ends up a mess!


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## jarek (Feb 4, 2010)

As for me, I want to believe that there is some intelligence in mantids, yeah we got all the technology, science and theories to indicate that there isn't but non of them can realy be equivalent of actual mantis perspective.


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## gadunka888 (Feb 5, 2010)

jarek said:


> As for me, I want to believe that there is some intelligence in mantids, yeah we got all the technology, science and theories to indicate that there isn't but non of them can realy be equivalent of actual mantis perspective.


+1


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## ismart (Feb 5, 2010)

Hate to say this, but mantids are pretty stupid! They look intelligent, but thats as far as it goes. I would say most of what dictates there actions is based on instinct, not intelligence.


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## massaman (Feb 5, 2010)

true they have a basic nervous system and rely on chemicals in their systems and are driven by instinct not intelligence or such but they fake it so well!


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## Eoullis (Feb 5, 2010)

Intelligent and dumb. Hmmm? We must keep in mind that every thing we know about our world is filtered through the human perspective. Is one animal smarter than another because a human can teach it tricks?? I've always held the thought that the animal that is the least cooperative with humans may well be the smarter. Example, the donkey and the zebra. Donkey's were somewhat cooperative with people so we kept them, bred them, and worked them to death. The zebra has never co-operated with man. The Zebra is pretty smart if you ask me.

Humans easily impress themselves. The "dumbest" mantid has more innate understanding of the world than does the smartest human. What we as humans call intelligence means nothing to the world. It only has value to us.

We have only one thing that seperates us from them and its not memory, using tools, opposable thumbs or any of the physical stuff. Its a humans ability to manifest thought into the physical world. Our whole existence is based on that ability.

I don't know where I'm going..lol.... Basically, we havn't been around that long. So I'm guessing time will tell if all the thinking we do is so superior.

So, is one mantis smarter than another. I'm too dumb to tell but, Mamma always said, "Stupid is as stupid does".


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## kookamonga (Feb 5, 2010)

Eoullis said:


> Intelligent and dumb. Hmmm? We must keep in mind that every thing we know about our world is filtered through the human perspective. Is one animal smarter than another because a human can teach it tricks?? I've always held the thought that the animal that is the least cooperative with humans may well be the smarter. Example, the donkey and the zebra. Donkey's were somewhat cooperative with people so we kept them, bred them, and worked them to death. The zebra has never co-operated with man. The Zebra is pretty smart if you ask me.Humans easily impress themselves. The "dumbest" mantid has more innate understanding of the world than does the smartest human. What we as humans call intelligence means nothing to the world. It only has value to us.
> 
> We have only one thing that seperates us from them and its not memory, using tools, opposable thumbs or any of the physical stuff. Its a humans ability to manifest thought into the physical world. Our whole existence is based on that ability.
> 
> ...


+1 :&gt;


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## sk8erkho (Feb 7, 2010)

Been away from the forum for a minute but, IIIIIIIIIIIII"""MMMMMMMMMMMM Baaaaaaaaaack!!

Hey guys!!!! Missed you all!!! Anyway, I guess I would have to go with wishing there was some form of intelligent action going on with our little pets of choice!! But, in the end it may all just be instinct and survival mechanisms as some of our other more wise members have pointed out even as this question has been posted in times past!!! So, while I'm sitting there watching my adult female Texas Unicorn who incidentally, has been with me since Jan. 2009, watching television from her perch high up on my living room curtains, as she"seems' to love to do. Whether or not she really is "watching" the tele or just responding to movement across the screen maybe we may never know!! When i first came to rear mantids back in 2006, I had a wide arm for first time. I took her outside with me and my boys and this teenager ran up to us wondering what we had in the kritter keeper. When she saw it she screamed out to her friends who were following her up the street' Oh Sh**! Guys, She has an alien in that tank!" When the other girls arrived ooohing and ahhhing they all responded the same, "Oh sh**! It _IS_ an alien!!!!" Of course I stood there with the dumb face wondering whether to bust their bubbles or not.... chose Not to say a word. So, intelligence of species................. ............. ............. ............!


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## JoeCapricorn (Feb 7, 2010)

Mantises are so playful, funny and cute that it doesn't matter... although sometimes Angel tries to catch and eat the little dots rolling around in his cage that turn out to be his own poo.


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