# Idolomantis Ootheca - Holes? normal?



## lectricblueyes (Jun 13, 2009)

Hey all! I received an Ooth from my good friend whom you all probably know, DonL. I absolutely know that Don would **NEVER** send me an Ooth that's already hatched and if it does not hatch, he ALWAYS replaces ooths which goes ABOVE and BEYOND what most would do as far as a "guarantee". Just wanted to get that out of the way. This thread is purely for my own curiosity  

The ooth has holes in it. Small holes. The whole ooth is a very light color, almost white/cream colored. The holes appear slighly darker though this could simply be due to the lack of light in the holes.

The question is, do holes typically indicate that an ooth has hatched?

I don't see the little silky string. The ooth has a good "weight" feel to it and it does look very clean/fresh. Coming from the wild, which this one has... it's hard to know for sure. I've personally have actually seen ooths hatch that already had "holes" in them. Though they were smaller holes.

Here is a picture:

(Note: The orange tint is NOT the color of the ooth, but is caused by the lighting in the room)


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## Rick (Jun 13, 2009)

Looks hatched to me but your pic isn't very good. Those little strings dont' last every long so that is not a good indicator. Is this the ooth you spent a lot of money on?


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## lectricblueyes (Jun 13, 2009)

Rick said:


> Looks hatched to me but your pic isn't very good. Those little strings dont' last every long so that is not a good indicator. Is this the ooth you spent a lot of money on?


Yes, bad picture. Yes, expensive Ooth. Holes in this species ooth is a hatched? Better photo to come tonight. Have you worked with these before Rick?


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## Rick (Jun 13, 2009)

LectricBlueyes said:


> Yes, bad picture. Yes, expensive Ooth. Holes in this species ooth is a hatched? Better photo to come tonight. Have you worked with these before Rick?


Nope. However on others the holes can mean it has hatched. Either way I wouldn't accept that.


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## agent A (Jun 13, 2009)

The holes might be from parasitic wasps or just a way for the nymphs to escape when they hatch.


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 13, 2009)

I'd wondered about parasitic wasps, too, Dave. If that's what the holes are, and there aren'y many more in there, you might still get a good hatch. I've never hatched this ooth, so I dont know whether the nymphs come out threough the "zipper" as they do in S. limbata or from one end, as they do in an Asian or Chinese ooth. There has to be someone here with experience who can tell you.


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## MingMing (Jun 13, 2009)

I got YOUR ooths like 2-3 weeks ago and the ones that were meant to be the musonia surinamas were in fact the peruvian mantis... and the ooth looked like it hatched... just like that, with small tiny holes that seemed to be broken fron the inside to out. But well, even though it looked like that, 20 peruvianas came out. And I guess it depends on the size of the ooth, both the pseudovates peruviana and the sphodromantis lineola came out from the sides, not from the "zipper" line.


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## Katnapper (Jun 14, 2009)

I have never had an Idolo ooth, so have absolutely no experience with them. But I do know that holes like that do not always indicate evidence of an ooth already having hatched. Some ooths have "holes" like that normally in the process of being made. Also, is the view in the pic even of the "zipper" side? It's not a very good pic, but it appears to be a view of the underside (flat or concave side on which it was laid), rather than the side where the nymphs would normally emerge. Is this correct? If so, those shouldn't be holes from nymphs hatching. At most, they might be wasp holes. As I said, I really don't know. But I would rather wager these are normal pockets in the ooth that occurred naturally when constructed by the female.

Check out this Parasphendale agrionina ooth. This pic was taken shortly after it was laid. It was indeed fertile and has recently hatched. But it had a big hole in the bottom side of it, and another little one in the zipper area. Obviously, it wasn't because it had already hatched, nor did it make a difference. I'm not saying your ooth has not hatched... I'm saying it's entirely possible it hasn't.






Curiously, I will add that I received some Ephestiasula pictipes ooths several months ago from Don that didn't hatch. And they did have similar holes in them. When I'd asked a couple of other forum members about the holes, they advised it was entirely possible the ooths hadn't hatched yet. But of course they could not be sure.


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## Rick (Jun 14, 2009)

Holes in ooths are common but a line of holes down the center like that generally isn't.


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## Christian (Jun 14, 2009)

Looks hatched to me, but a better pic is desireable. Parasites usually emerge through the side of the ooth, not through the hatching zone as nymphs do.


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 14, 2009)

ming ming said:


> I got YOUR ooths like 2-3 weeks ago and the ones that were meant to be the musonia surinamas were in fact the peruvian mantis... and the ooth looked like it hatched... just like that, with small tiny holes that seemed to be broken fron the inside to out. But well, even though it looked like that, 20 peruvianas came out. And I guess it depends on the size of the ooth, both the pseudovates peruviana and the sphodromantis lineola came out from the sides, not from the "zipper" line.


I'm easily confused, Ming Ming! Does the YOUR refer to "Lectric? I thought that you got yrs from a different source, but I guess that they could have travelled north and then south again!

And PLEASE tell us how your nymphs are getting on and how you are feeding them (new thread?). I have been lighting a candle for them every night in front of the shrine, but I am running out of candles!


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## lectricblueyes (Jun 14, 2009)

Okay, so I only have the iPhone camera available at my disposal. Can't find the charger for normal camera. Anyway.... hope this helps you guys... help me  lol

Of all the sides, the side with holes appears most likely to be the "zipper" side of the ooth. Also, pohchunyee bought an Idol Ooth as well and his hatched. He said my ooth looks exactly like his AFTER his hatched. Here are the pictures of mine:

Side 1:






Side 2:






Side 3:






Side 4:






Side 5:






Side 6:






Holes 1:






Holes 2:






Holes 3:






Holes 4:


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 14, 2009)

Post #12? Everyone likes you Dave and no one wants to come out and tell you the sad truth directly. My duoble sawbuck says that you have an empty ooth.


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## hibiscusmile (Jun 14, 2009)

Here is pic of hatched ooths, the idol do come from center.


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## hibiscusmile (Jun 14, 2009)

I would of replied sooner, but it took all day to get to the end of the posts!


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## hibiscusmile (Jun 14, 2009)

Kat the third ooth in your pic is hatched, and wasp holes are generally round and u will have no doubt that, that is what it is, as Christian said, they are not interested in holes already there, and generally they would know a fresh ooth compared to a already old hatched ooth, they live off the eggs inside, so they would be soon extinct if they were not programed to lay in fresh unhatched ooths.


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## hibiscusmile (Jun 14, 2009)

Ok, just finished reading the post Lectric, and Everyone must remember these are W C caught ooths, wild caught for those unfamilar with the jargon here. So some will hatch and some will not, also we do not know how much the picker (whoever is collecting them) know about hatched looking ooths, as to this I have sent Don a pic of the ooth so he can tell how to know what is hatched and what is not.


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## hibiscusmile (Jun 14, 2009)

The reason I said the picker may not know, is just because someone collects something to make money on, does not mean they have raised them or have that kind of experience with the item.


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## hibiscusmile (Jun 14, 2009)

ok, one more thing, I just noticed I was now a Ghost mantis,,,,, i was just a dead leaf,.... makes me wonder where this is leading me


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## MingMing (Jun 14, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> I'm easily confused, Ming Ming! Does the YOUR refer to "Lectric? I thought that you got yrs from a different source, but I guess that they could have travelled north and then south again!And PLEASE tell us how your nymphs are getting on and how you are feeding them (new thread?). I have been lighting a candle for them every night in front of the shrine, but I am running out of candles!


LOL Ok ok... the thing is, I was going to get the ooths for Dave. I never meant to start this breeding mantis thing, But well I got the ooths froom the southamerican human being -that cant be named- 3 weeks AFTER the date he settled (blaming the swine flu) but well, I finally ended up getting them. Then Dave was inda bussy with the moving and I wasnt quite sure about what to do with them (when I tried to get rid off the ooths it was too late) Soooo here I am spending 4 hours of my day to feed the lil bastards... :S The peruvians ignore me... they hate me they just turn around and look at me like saying "now what?" and the lineolas are hyperactive, they just start running and jumping.

And well, probably the ooth hatched half its way? because the peruviana ooth I got had the same holes along the "zipper line" but 20 fat black nymphs came out.


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## [email protected] (Jun 14, 2009)

[SIZE=14pt]1 of my Ooths had about 8 wasp hatch out of the sides, but my W C Ooths are a round kind that came from Don also. So by this post I take it that if that the wasp hatched there was food for them, so this Ooth was fresh and fertile, but how meny eggs do the wasp eat? 1 each or more?.[/SIZE]


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## Christian (Jun 14, 2009)

The color of your posts is really annoying...  

Usually, the wasps larvae eat one egg each.


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## pohchunyee (Jun 15, 2009)

Agree......it hurt my eyes to see all these blue !!! But here is a picture of my hatched Idolomantis ooth, My ooth is slightly over an inch... it hatch last week with 26 nymphs.


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## lectricblueyes (Jun 15, 2009)

pohchunyee said:


> Agree......it hurt my eyes to see all these blue !!! But here is a picture of my hatched Idolomantis ooth, My ooth is slightly over an inch... it hatch last week with 26 nymphs.


Yep, yours is *slightly* darker than mine and you have 8-12 holes along the center at the "zipper/seam" . For me, that's the nail in the coffin.

Based on this ooth having a that many holes in a line, down the middle of the ooth... I think it's easy to assume that this is a hatched ooth. Especially if you consider it's wild.

Thanks for everyone's input. I appreciate your time.


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## agent A (Jun 15, 2009)

Don't I. diabolica eggs take like 5 months to hatch?


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## Christian (Jun 15, 2009)

No, just about 6-8 weeks.


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## agent A (Jun 15, 2009)

Oh.


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## Orin (Jun 17, 2009)

How long will you wait to cut it open and see if it already hatched?


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## pohchunyee (Jun 17, 2009)

Here are a few more pictures of my hatched ooth. Hope this will help!! DON"T CUT OPEN IT YET!!!!


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## Rick (Jun 17, 2009)

Please keep it on topic so the whole thread doesn't have to go bye bye.


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## Rick (Jun 17, 2009)

Based off the newest pics from Blue I would say that has hatched.


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