# Eye problems



## MooSmoo (Jul 14, 2008)

One of my NZ mantids recently suffered a weird condition on his compound eyes.

At first his eyes were obviously fine, the little "pupils" were visable and everything.

Over time he developed dark patches on the upper part of each eye, which slowly blackened. I though he may recover after shed and he was still catching prey, so I guess he could still see.

How ever after the shed it seemed as if his eyes had popped, they were black and deflated rather than normal large, round mantid eyes.

By this point it was obvious that he was blind, but was still able to catch prey if it brushed his antennae.

However his next shed proved fatal as he became entangled for too long.

Anyone else experienced this eye problem?


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## idolomantis (Jul 14, 2008)

i had, but just at one eye... still can catch pray as it has 3 small eyes on the forehead.







sorry for the bad quality.


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## MooSmoo (Jul 14, 2008)

Yeah thats exactly what happened to ours, but both eyes.


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## idolomantis (Jul 14, 2008)

MooSmoo said:


> Yeah thats exactly what happened to ours, but both eyes.


an infection can come trough the eyes easely now, keep it very clean and ventilated or else you get this...


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## Rick (Jul 14, 2008)

They often get small black spots which are normal and do not harm them. I can say I have never had the above happen though.


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## JennMantis (Aug 6, 2008)

My Chinese mantis now has a black spot on both eyes and it doesn't look like he can see very well. I fed him a moth over the weekend which he caught and ate, but I think it was because it flew into his arms. The fly I put in there later, he never caught. I put a crane fly in there this morning and it would brush past him, but he wouldn't take it. I gave him water, which he drank, but I am concerned that he cannot see. He has been an adult for over a month now, I'm wondering if he is going to survive much longer or if he is nearing the end?


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## idolomantis (Aug 6, 2008)

not if you just handfeed him, hold a prey right in from og him and he wil get it, altough mantids has 3 small weird eye like things on the forehead, and ofcourse the antennea.


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## Birdfly (Aug 6, 2008)

I've had this happen in the past and all i could put it down too was the mantid constantly trying to push through the glass/plastic walls of its cage, eyes first and rubbing &amp; damaging them, they later got infected or just degraded?

Another cause could be spraying them directly and drops of water magnifying light (tungsten/flourescent/natural ? ?) onto the eye and burning them? but this is pure speculation though


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## collinchang635 (Aug 7, 2008)

Birdfly said:


> I've had this happen in the past and all i could put it down too was the mantid constantly trying to push through the glass/plastic walls of its cage, eyes first and rubbing &amp; damaging them, they later got infected or just degraded?Another cause could be spraying them directly and drops of water magnifying light (tungsten/flourescent/natural ? ?) onto the eye and burning them? but this is pure speculation though


So should I spray my mantids directly?


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## idolomantis (Aug 7, 2008)

I Like Mantis said:


> So should I spray my mantids directly?


no. spray the enclosure


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## collinchang635 (Aug 7, 2008)

idolomantis said:


> no. spray the enclosure


Oh, I have been spraying my mantids directly for one week. What are the chances that my mantid will become like the one in the pic? :huh:


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## idolomantis (Aug 7, 2008)

I Like Mantis said:


> Oh, I have been spraying my mantids directly for one week. What are the chances that my mantid will become like the one in the pic? :huh:


slim if you ventilate enough.


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## mrblue (Aug 7, 2008)

I Like Mantis said:


> Oh, I have been spraying my mantids directly for one week. What are the chances that my mantid will become like the one in the pic? :huh:


like birdfly said, that was pure speculation. i have no idea what the cause may be, but ive never had this problem with the eyes and i always spray the mantids directly (not exclusively).


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## chun (Aug 7, 2008)

i've only seen this phenomenon in larger mantids such as Tenodera, Pseudempusa, Sphodromantis, Hierodula etc. I think the main cause of it is, like what Birdfly said, is physical damage of the eye when the mantis collides with transparent glass/plastic (caused by stress for example) which is made worse by small enclosures.

The water one is interesting, i'm not too hot on my insect physiology (in particular the compound eyes), but how come other parts of the mantis do not get 'burnt'?

Not being argumentative, but just some food for thoughts.


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## Birdfly (Aug 7, 2008)

idolomantis said:


>


I have never seen any thing as bad as this, my own experiences with "similar damage" has been what could be very early stages of my photos of a _Rhombodera_ sp:











She was constantly trying to walk through her viv walls, glass and plastic, no others.

I have seen this progress, in other peoples mantids that were affected, into a crust that has broken through the eye surface causing it to scab and catch/damage/worsen on the next molt.

Ofcoarse a bad/dry molting experience might also start it to begin with but mostly it seems to me this is caused by rubbing them, trying to walk to a more desirable spot, sunlight patch? through a hard transparent wall that it cant comprehend.

It might also be a sign in some instances of to small a holding cage?

 

Thank you Mrblue, thats interesting, i spray both on and away from depending on circumstances, species, mood   

Good point Chun, my original thought was the eye lenses being lenses and with the water drops also being a lens of sort there might be more magnification??


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## mrblue (Aug 7, 2008)

i can go along with the "walking into things too much/rubbing" one, sounds the most plausible of the two. just thought i would throw this picture into the thread, seems relevant:






(photo by marco junkie, im sure he doesnt mind me posting as it is already on the forum)

in the case above i think i remember macro junkie saying he he had received the mantis like that at L4 and it never went away but didnt get worse either. and that the mantid seemed otherwise unaffected. the damage above seems like a different kind to the others in this thread though.


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## MantidLord (Aug 8, 2008)

idolomantis said:


> not if you just handfeed him, hold a prey right in from og him and he wil get it, altough mantids has 3 small weird eye like things on the forehead, and ofcourse the antennea.


Those are simple eyes, and they are not believed to be used for vision. Simply for detecting changes in light.


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## JennMantis (Aug 9, 2008)

The past week or so since I've noticed the black spots on my Chinese mantis' eyes haven't gotten worse, but he doesn't catch his prey during the day. All the flies I put in there during the day are gone by the next morning. Perhaps his night vision is still ok and can easily catch prey at nighttime?


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## muleyyy (Aug 18, 2008)

i had the exact same problem with my first african mantis, i second third and fourth the idea that its caused by contact with the holding container, as when i bought my african mantis it was in a pet shop, and in retrospect i remember that the mantids were in a darkish corner and would peer out towards the light, could it possibly be exacerbated by dry conditions? i was lucky that mine didnt burst until it had its final shed and it only lost one eye so it was still able to hunt

i have a chinese mantis at the moment that has dark patches on its eyes, it doesnt seem to be very severe at the moment, but i will try and keep it a bit humid and we'll just have to see what happens! the enclosure it is in is quite large, but i noticed it seems to be in its nature to peer out from the lid at anyone passing by


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## collinchang635 (Aug 18, 2008)

Is there any way to treat or to prevent this from happening?


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## idolomantis (Aug 18, 2008)

plenty of ventilation and humidity.


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## collinchang635 (Aug 18, 2008)

idolomantis said:


> plenty of ventilation and humidity.


I'll keep that in mind. Thanks for the help!


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## Mantidmaniac95 (Sep 18, 2008)

I think mine is ging through that right now


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## cloud jaguar (Oct 17, 2008)

My 3" S. Limbata female laid an ooth 10/5/08 and on 10/8/08 I noticed that one of the compound eyes had a smallish black spot on it. Her other eye already had a damaged lens from her battles in nature against yellowjackets. Anyways, she is plump and healthy seeming 9 days later. I keep her in a 12" butterfly cube with fake plants.

My theory about that black spot is that it is an area where her compound eyes came away from the outer lens and just look black. Who knows, perhaps i'm wrong  She does not rub against any part of her enclosure from what I have seen so I doubt that it is from that.

Despite the eye damage and late age, she is still a serious threat to flies and hoppers!

~Arkanis


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## superfreak (Oct 19, 2008)

My new zealand adult gets black eyes from time to time. I feed her a generous portion of fresh honey and it goes away by the next day.


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