# Veiled Chameleons



## ddvw123abc

THere is veiled chameleons at petco and im wondering what i need and if an enclosure that is 36lx18wx17h is big enough


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## Rick

Google is your friend. I googled veiled chameleon care sheet and got all this. Pretty sure you can find your answer there somewhere.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;rls...eet&amp;spell=1


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## Orin

ddvw123abc said:


> THere is veiled chameleons at petco and im wondering what i need and if an enclosure that is 36lx18wx17h is big enough


That enclosure is plenty big enough. Massive enclosures may be suggested by some but many have had no trouble rearing them in cages less than half that size. I've reared a number from hatchlings and have bred that species also. I think the most significant aspect of care is they should be fed and misted every day. Missing every so often is okay. If it's little you'll certainly require calcium with vitamin D and a full spectrum incandescent bulb (avoid fluorescent unless supplemented with incandescent).


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## pohchunyee

I have been breeding Veiled Chameleons for 4 years now. Here is the link that will help you the most

http://www.chameleonnews.com/


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## Peter Clausen

I didn't read the links, but I have two veiled chameleons. Orin taught me most everything I know about chameleons and they seem to be thriving.

Couple things experience has taught me:

1. Good to have a large self-sustaining feeder roach culture. It is so much cheaper in the long run than buying crickets from the pet store (I just bought another $150 worth of feeder roaches for our reptiles and bugs because I wasn't keeping my feeder roaches warm enough to reproduce quickly enough. Believe me when I say this is WAY cheaper than a regular cricket bill.).

2. A plant that fills most of the enclosure makes for a happy chameleon. The stems should be strong enough to support the weight of your chameleon. Umbrella plants are available at most stores and seem to be a pretty common choice.

3. Dust those feeder insects with the powder, just as Orin recommended. I'm surprised how many people I talk to do actually have problems with their veiled chameleons by not providing that mineral and lighting combination.


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## harryallard

surely you need a much more aboreal enclosure?

like one of those 4-foot tall mesh ones?

they're not very expensive


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## Orin

This young guy is sleeping. My adult female is a baby of my babies but I picked him up at 3" (he's 14" total now) since inbreeding is harmful to chameleons. He's big enough to mate now, and recently has. You can see the spotlight (off since it's nighttime). The cage is similar dimensions to a 10 gallon but 4" taller. He won't get too many inches longer but should get at least twice the bulk. I've only kept Veileds and Panthers, I'm always worried the other chameleons would pick up some strange disease if I brought home a wild-caught Senegal, montium, pygmy, etc. It probably doesn't happen much but I know someone who had that issue (it was caused by a wild Senegal I gave them as a gift a long time ago).


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## shorty

Orin said:


> That enclosure is plenty big enough. Massive enclosures may be suggested by some but many have had no trouble rearing them in cages less than half that size. I've reared a number from hatchlings and have bred that species also. I think the most significant aspect of care is they should be fed and misted every day. Missing every so often is okay. If it's little you'll certainly require calcium with vitamin D and a full spectrum incandescent bulb (avoid fluorescent unless supplemented with incandescent).


Don't they need some kind of ultraviolet light? I know incandescent lights don't produce this, so what would they be used for, heat? Or doesn't it matter to reptiles if they get UV or not?


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## Orin

Veiled chameleons need UV for their bones to grow properly while montium chameleons don't, it depends on the environment or/and the type of reptile. I don't know of a single gecko that needs UV (maybe some day gecko somewhere). According to various manufacturers of "full spectrum" incandescents, these provide UVA while "full spectrum" fluorescents can provide UVA &amp; UVB or UVC (usually only those made for c). There is some debate, UVA causes sunburn though longer wave UVB may be more dangerous and even longer wave UVC is certainly considered so. In my experience UVA is important for growing veileds and if you use only a regular incandescent you will see your babies get rickets. Most keepers suggest both an incandescent and fluoresecent 'full spectrum' that way you cover your bases. It's good advice since it avoids chances of being wrong. Nevertheless, the only time I had bad rickets on a batch of babies was when I went out and bought a $40 UVA &amp;UVB flourescent since I read it was such a big break through and swapped out my "full spectrum" incandescent (didn't use both). Previously I had raised baby panthers to adults with only "full spectrum" incandescent and not a sign of MBD because I believed what the bulbs said on the boxes but later heard about the better "full spectrum" fluorescents. At all times I was using a vitamin D calcium dusting for the feeders. I do not manufacture, test or sell bulbs so I can only comment on how they affect growing my chameleons.


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## Orin

Here is the same male angry during the day. His colors are brown for a veiled but I knew that when I bought him (he's the only male I've ever seen that stayed brown till it was almost sexually mature, males usually color up at a few inches and he was pure brown at 3"). The female's father was absolutely stunning so I'm hoping the babies end up more like the mother's side.


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## Katnapper

Orin said:


> Here is the same male angry during the day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Orin! :angry: What did you do to make him angry?
> 
> Neat creature... I don't know anything about them, so it's interesting peeking in to your discussion. Thanks for including the pics. I was jk above... but I do wonder what makes them angry or change color?
Click to expand...


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## ABbuggin

I find these guys VERY interesting, and have wanted them for a very long time. I'm working on getting to cages set up for the 2 veilds I going to get. B)


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## Orin

Make a Veiled angry? Get too near it or touch it.

The male actually has some color but he's always turning himself brown to hide, other males I've had just sit out with half to full color much of the time. Here he is hiding and then in full angry color. Most pictures you see of chameleons are when they're mad.

This is the female when she sees the male colored up (she doesn't normally look like that).


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## Katnapper

Orin, that first pic of him (in your last post) makes him look like he's got stilts for back legs! :lol: 

So they don't really like being handled? And are they noisy? The male and female look like they're screaming at each other, lol.

Sorry about all the questions... I'm just curious.


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## acerbity

That guy's chin reminds me of this:






Anyways, I've only kept pygmy chams and they are a whole different mess  

I would suggest checking craigslist or a reptile show as these will cost you a third of what you'd pay at a store and in some cases may already have an enclosure.


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## shorty

acerbity said:


> I would suggest checking craigslist or a reptile show as these will cost you a third of what you'd pay at a store and in some cases may already have an enclosure.


I was in a pet store in Erie today and they had veiled chameleons for $109.99. Is that overly expensive in comparison to a reptile show?


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## Orin

One thing I forgot to mention is none of these indoor bulbs even compare to a few hours outside in the sun. It's too cold here most of the year but during the ~5 months it's warm enough they spend a few hours out in the sun each week inside a screen cage. If you rear veileds you can see the difference from using various lights in how they grow, they almost seem like plants. One bulb I really like is the 'daylight' halogen spot, it seems far better than the standard 'full spectrum' incandescent.



shorty said:


> I was in a pet store in Erie today and they had veiled chameleons for $109.99. Is that overly expensive in comparison to a reptile show?


It depends on how big it was and what sex, babies usually run $20-$45, females are cheaper than males and a nice adult male can be $150 or more at a show (or cheaper).


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## Orin

Katnapper said:


> So they don't really like being handled? And are they noisy?


Some people handle them all the time and they become used to it, otherwise NO.

They hiss when really mad but otherwise are silent.


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## Katnapper

Orin said:


> Some people handle them all the time and they become used to it, otherwise NO. They hiss when really mad but otherwise are silent.


Thank you.


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## Orin

The female laid some eggs but I won't dig up and count them until she's done and buries them. This is the same setup (exactly) where she was laid as an egg.


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## ABbuggin

I've got a 6 month old male veiled coming my way this Tuesday! I got a 2'x2'x3' cage, all the supplements, basking light, UV light with hood, the chameleon and a few other things for $100. :blink: 

I can't wait until Tuesday! :wub:


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## Peter Clausen

Here's a personality pic. of my young male from a few months ago. The people at the pet show told us he was the red morph or red form (a reference, I think, to the the ridges on his head) of veiled chameleon. We have a female that is not quite adult yet. I hope to be calling Orin for egg-laying tips sometime in the middle of the new year!

(eating green grapes)


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## Orin

Is that how big he was when you first got him?


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## Peter Clausen

When we first got him, we put him in the large enclosure with the female (as he is in that photo). She reacted immediately and badly, with all the dark display colors that we'd (now) expect. She was pretty upset for the following week and would not come down from her favorite perch to eat.

Yes, that was his size when we got him. The female was twice as big. I think we paid around $40 for him and were happy to find him at the local reptile show. The males seem to sell out pretty quickly, and the young females still sell fairly well at $30. Since he was the "red stripe phase" or whatever, we pounced on him. I'm still not sure that's not normal coloration, but a friend that accompanied us to the show seemed to have heard of it. We also bought the bearded dragon that day (also red phase). We ended up putting up a large piece of cardboard over the side of our female veiled's cage since she continued to express moody colors at being about 5 line-of-sight ft. from our beardie's cage. She shortly resumed normal behavior and feeding and is just waiting for the male to catch up to her in size.


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## Orin

I was asking if you got him that way because it looks very much like he was sold to you with MBD (the sides of the legs shouldn't have those bumps). With good feeding and lighting you could still get him to grow and recover almost completely --depending on the severity and age. You might not even be able to see it now. It's a bigger issue for females because of egg laying.


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## Peter Clausen

I'll take a current photo of him soon and post it so you can judge his status/progress.

Thanks!


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## Dinora

I had one of these little guys a few years ago. It was beautiful!  

Then one day it's "dinner" bit his tongue (at least that's what the vet thinks) and it got swollen and infected. The vet tried some sort of medication, but it didn't work and the little guy passed away less than 4 days after I noticed his tongue looked funny.  

Stupid crickets!!! :angry: 

I got all emotional and didn't get another lizard until about 2 years later: the coolest bearded dragon in the world named Mushu! B) 

Then he got all uppity and got attached to a close friend of mine. Every time she came over she wanted to be the one to feed him then held him afterwards for hours. After a while he wouldn't let me pick him up but always went willingly to her! This made bath days difficult.

I hate seeing poo on his legs so I used to move him into the bathtub filled with about an inch or so of warm water while I cleaned out his home. After a while I had to wear gloves when transferring him to the tub because he would fight me so much!

After several months of this I eventually just let her take him home, aquarium, lights, and even the little aquarium I was raising crickets in. They are both still very bonded to each other. Those traitors!!! :angry: 

I don't care! Cuz I have my new little mantis to keep me company! Yay!!!


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## Katnapper

Dinora, I hope you still get visiting rights at least!


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## Dinora

Katnapper said:


> Dinora, I hope you still get visiting rights at least!


I do, but he doesn't let me touch him anymore. So I just look. He was a sandy color when I got him but lately he's becoming more orange.

Last time I tried to pick him up he expanded his chest and became very dark - I'm guessing he's through with me! LOL

Sheesh! No accounting for taste!


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## kakistos

I also have a veiled chameleon. I really love her! My first reptile.

She was like this when I got her:











Now she is like this:






more pictures of her feeding, last week:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/maartenj/3189...57612404141897/

I thought that when I would handle her every day she would not get upset when handled. it went fine, untill I went on holliday for one week and left her at the petshop to look after her. When I got her back she was hissing at me and she still does almost all of the time. I don't know if they scared her at the reptile shop? Or is it just her age? She is from august 2008.


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## Orin

If you handle them regularly they usually get used to it but it doesn't take them many days to forget. Also, they become less enamored with handling as they get older.


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## Peter Clausen

somewhat recent photos of our younger male...


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## robelgado

Those chameleons are great.

Any luck with the eggs yet Orin? any hatch?

Good luck with them!


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## Katnapper

Peter said:


> somewhat recent photos of our younger male...


He doesn't look too thrilled with having his picture taken, lol.  But I think he's *much *cuter than the spiders!  

PS... Hmmm.... posting this almost feels like déjà vu  :lol:


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## Orin

Peter said:


> somewhat recent photos of our younger male...


His legs look good in that photo.



robelgado said:


> Those chameleons are great.Any luck with the eggs yet Orin? any hatch?
> 
> Good luck with them!


I hatched the female maybe more than a year ago and her first ova won't be ready for 4-5 months.


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## Peter Clausen

Thanks for the confirmation, Orin. They did seem a little odd looking in that older photo.

Yes, Katnapper, he had gone pale as a ghost (not the mantis) that day. By day our female is brown, black and yellow (blending into the plant we have and screened cage and sticks she likes to rest on). At night she goes to a paler green.

Awesome pets! My son is doing a project on panther chameleons for school this week. I suspect I'll eventually be manipulated into getting him one sooner than later. Oh twist my arm!


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## DeadInTheBasement

chameleons are awesome lizards.

mine veiled would change to a darker color when basking(maybe to absord more rays?) and back to pale green when it was in the cooler area of his cage. he never tried to blend in to his suroundings much as far as colors go.


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## nasty bugger

I wanted to get a veiled this weekend, but misting them 5 times a day didn't sound to great at this time in my life.

I could set up a misting system for it, but that would mean letting him go till the system was set up and that would seem cruel to me, so I passed on it.

The Panthers were really cool looking, but that much for a first time go at it was a bit more of a chance than I wanted to take. Some days I'm out from morning till night running back and forth across town doing service calls, with no one to mist the creatures, so I had to pass on the chameleon thing, for now. Them and the dart frogs really caught my eye this weekend.

Nice. A jungle in my house


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## Orin

nasty bugger said:


> I wanted to get a veiled this weekend, but misting them 5 times a day didn't sound to great at this time in my life.


Once a day is good.


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