# Line of mantis Deaths



## Maikip (Jan 22, 2009)

Hi everyone. I think a sickness is going around my house. 

My first Chinese mantis died, but shortly after the second one passed away too.

What convinced me is that, my last mantis is showing the same symptoms.

It all started when black dots formed on his eyes. Also, the mantis before had something similiar.

Right now he's hunched over gripping a stick in his cage. I can't get him off either, his holding onto it with his pincer things.

His abdomen seems smaller than usual, in fact tiny compared to the rest of his body. It seems almost as if he's contracting it. I don't think it's because he is hungry, since i fed him a grasshopper yesterday.

Another thing is that his head jerks when he moves it from side to side. Almost as if he was a glitching robot.

All these symptoms are similar to my mantis which had died previously.

I caught him in the wild, should I leave him outside or try to nurse him back to health? I doubt I'll do any good.

I'm in need of advice. What should I do to prevent this next time? Is it safe to bring in anymore mantids into my house, or will they catch the same thing.

Is there still hope for my mantis?

I must have made a mistake somewhere, please tell me so i won't do the same thing again.


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## Katnapper (Jan 22, 2009)

Egads... strange symptoms. :mellow: I really don't have an answer for you. But have you (or anyone else) been using pesticides in the house, or on the lawn or areas where you catch the prey food?


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## DeadInTheBasement (Jan 22, 2009)

maybe just a case of old age?


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## Rick (Jan 22, 2009)

Old age. If somebody posts bacterial infection I am going to delete it.


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## ismart (Jan 22, 2009)

Rick said:


> Old age. If somebody posts bacterial infection I am going to delete it.


It does sound like your mantis is dieing of old age. Were they all adults when they died?


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## Hypoponera (Jan 22, 2009)

You mentioned "jerking" motion of the head. Possibly a the results of pesticide exposure. Do they do fogging for mosquitoes in your area? The jerking movements are very common symptoms of permethrin-type pesticide exposure.


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## PhilinYuma (Jan 22, 2009)

Hypoponera said:


> You mentioned "jerking" motion of the head. Possibly a the results of pesticide exposure. Do they do fogging for mosquitoes in your area? The jerking movements are very common symptoms of permethrin-type pesticide exposure.


What an interesting comment! Permethrin based insecticides like Raid, will zap any critter that you spray them on and you aren't likely to see the signs of impending death mentioned here, but I have seen them with small doses of ground pyrethrum petals, of which permethrin is is a synthetic and more deadly form. The head jerking, due to nervous system excitation, and the"death grip", as the insect becomes paralyzed are particularly characteristic.

Broadcast insect spray blown into the house is certainly a possibility, as is the use of insect spray in the house that got carried into the enclosure. Do you have any other insects in the house, Maikip? My guess is that you don't, or at least not in the same area as the mantis enclosure. Do you keep windows or patio doors open with just a screen covering? And no, your last mantis doesn't stand a chance.

As an aside, when I was Saving the Queen in Kenya, there were huge fields of scarlet pyrethrum blossoms at the foot of Mt Kenya and you could hear the sound of buzzing insects as you approached. In their natural state, of course, they have no effect on insects at all, so don't go and root up your pyrethrum daisies!


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## Maikip (Jan 23, 2009)

Katnapper said:


> Egads... strange symptoms. :mellow: I really don't have an answer for you. But have you (or anyone else) been using pesticides in the house, or on the lawn or areas where you catch the prey food?


I catch my grasshoppers from an empty lot close to my house. I could be pesticides, but the other grasshoppers i caught seem alert and show no signs of sickness.


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## Maikip (Jan 23, 2009)

ismart said:


> It does sound like your mantis is dieing of old age. Were they all adults when they died?


Yes I caught all of them as adults.


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## ismart (Jan 23, 2009)

maikip said:


> I catch my grasshoppers from an empty lot close to my house. I could be pesticides, but the other grasshoppers i caught seem alert and show no signs of sickness.


I would deffinetly look into wheather or not pesticides are being used in your area. If there not fogging the area to kill mosquitoes then i dought they would use pesticides to kill insects in an abandoned lot by your house. Are you close to any farm land where they might use pesticides on there crops? They spray for mosquitoes by me every year. I have not seen any adverse affects on wild caught mantids in my area. More damage is done to ooths by rodents and birds here.


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## nasty bugger (Jan 23, 2009)

I wonder if mantis' can be attacked by mites that may have some form of poison on them, like the pesticides or such.

The jerking is the strange symptom that makes me think poison, or maybe he's just practicing head butting for those occaisional bouts with other mantis' ...  

The tensed muscles is a sign of something awry.

Did you handle anything that may be affecting him/them?


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## kamakiri (Jan 24, 2009)

I doubt it's any spray/fog insecticide. I believe that would be illegal in Hawaii. Many pesticides are controlled due to the groundwater system there.

Most likely it's old age. I had one Chinese male that appeared to go crazy before he died. Ripped his own antennae off, was clawing at his head and walking legs. Found him dead with an ejected spermatophore. He was perfectly healthy before that.


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## Maikip (Jan 26, 2009)

kamakiri said:


> I doubt it's any spray/fog insecticide. I believe that would be illegal in Hawaii. Many pesticides are controlled due to the groundwater system there.Most likely it's old age. I had one Chinese male that appeared to go crazy before he died. Ripped his own antennae off, was clawing at his head and walking legs. Found him dead with an ejected spermatophore. He was perfectly healthy before that.


!!!!!!

My mantis before this one acted the same way. I was wondering what was that white thing attached to his butt when i found him dead. It could have been a

spermatophore.

It makes sense now. It's true that pesticides aren't used in hawaii.

My mantis now is still surviving. I gave him some honey and hand fed him and he's doing all right.

But he's nibbling the ends of his legs off.


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## PhilinYuma (Jan 27, 2009)

maikip said:


> !!!!!!It makes sense now. It's true that pesticides aren't used in hawaii.


No, it's not true.


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## Maikip (Jan 27, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> No, it's not true.


well i mean, they don't spray bushes for mosquito control


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## PhilinYuma (Jan 27, 2009)

maikip said:


> well i mean, they don't spray bushes for mosquito control


Fair enough. I checked out your state aggie permits and saw that the license for Permethrin spraying has been withdrawn, so there goes my bright idea &lt;_&lt; 

I used to stay with family on Oahu and heard that the hotels in Honolulu, because they couldn't use insecticides, used those high-frequency emitters that you plug into a light socket to keep guests safe from the Giant Insects.

Have you noticed that people on the mainland tend to know nothing about Hawaii? I brought a couple of my sons back, once, and registered them in a Chicago public school. Someone in the office asked what was the last school that they had attended, and I said "Princess Ka’iulani Elementary School in Honolulu, Hawaii." "No," she said, "I mean, what was the last school that they attended in the _United States_?"


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## kamakiri (Jan 27, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> Fair enough. I checked out your state aggie permits and saw that the license for Permethrin spraying has been withdrawn, so there goes my bright idea &lt;_&lt; I used to stay with family on Oahu and heard that the hotels in Honolulu, because they couldn't use insecticides, used those high-frequency emitters that you plug into a light socket to keep guests safe from the Giant Insects.
> 
> Have you noticed that people on the mainland tend to know nothing about Hawaii? I brought a couple of my sons back, once, and registered them in a Chicago public school. Someone in the office asked what was the last school that they had attended, and I said "Princess Ka’iulani Elementary School in Honolulu, Hawaii." "No," she said, "I mean, what was the last school that they attended in the _United States_?"


Just to be clear, typical household pesticides are legal. Most systemic agricultural pesticides are not legal. I believe anything large-scale airborne is not.

But don't get me started about comments from visitors containing "...back in the states..." or anything implying that Hawaii is not the 50th state! It's not Puerto Rico or Guam! The worst offenders were my friends in the military.

And now that I'm on the mainland, the first question everyone here always asks is, "what island did you live on?". Not a stupid question, just annoying and often the precursor to discussing their last vacation to whatever island.

So your kids went to PK? I guess you lived in Waikiki or Kapahulu/Waialae?


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## Hypoponera (Jan 28, 2009)

Hey PhilinYuma,

I get that same response from quite a few sellers on ebay! Seems New Mexico isn't in the US any more. I often wonder if we were given back to Mexico and I just had not heard yet. Maybe the other 49 states decided to sell us for a quick buck!

The reason I had suggested permethrin poisoning is that I saw the same symptoms on a daily basis. I used to be a pest control specialist in the Air Force and spent another 7 years working here for Terminix. Products like Tempo contain synthetic pyrethroids that are meant to be very slow acting so ants don't notice them. This leads to roaches doing the "funky chicken" for a few days after a treatment. Most home use products are designed for very quick killing so house wifes can kill those roaches fast.


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## Dinora (Feb 4, 2009)

Rick said:


> Old age. If somebody posts bacterial infection I am going to delete it.


LOL omg I was drinking something when I read this and soda almost came up my nose!

You are the coolest, Rick!!!


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## Dinora (Feb 4, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> Have you noticed that people on the mainland tend to know nothing about Hawaii? I brought a couple of my sons back, once, and registered them in a Chicago public school. Someone in the office asked what was the last school that they had attended, and I said "Princess Ka’iulani Elementary School in Honolulu, Hawaii." "No," she said, "I mean, what was the last school that they attended in the _United States_?"


LOL! I'll admit it, I'm ignorant of the ways of Hawaii - the only thing I know about the state is from movies like "Race the Sun" and "50 1st Dates" - as you can see I know nothing &lt;_&lt; 

Then again... I don't need to, I don't live in the states... I live in the country of Texas!!!  

LOL


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## Maikip (Feb 5, 2009)

Dinora said:


> LOL! I'll admit it, I'm ignorant of the ways of Hawaii - the only thing I know about the state is from movies like "Race the Sun" and "50 1st Dates" - as you can see I know nothing &lt;_&lt; Then again... I don't need to, I don't live in the states... I live in the country of Texas!!!
> 
> LOL


lol :]

It's OK. People from the mainland always think we still live in grass hut villages. ^^;

A little update-

Sam just died a few days ago. :[ But he did live a week and a half more than I expected. During his last week he was doing well; climbing around the top of his cage and eating well, until the last couple of days where he didn't drink or eat.

My boyfriend's mantis's egg sack hatched yesterday. There is a total of 8 nymphs. Were so excited to raise the second generation of mantids.


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