# Needs to be read



## hibiscusmile (Dec 19, 2012)

COLUMBINE STUDENT'S FATHER 12 YEARS LATER !!

Guess our national leaders didn't expect this. On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee. What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful.

They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness.. The following is a portion of the transcript: "Since the dawn of creation there has been both good &amp; evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.

"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart. "In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent

I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy -- it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best. Your laws ignore our deepest needs,

Your words are empty air.

You've stripped away our heritage,

You've outlawed simple prayer.

Now gunshots fill our classrooms,

And precious children die.

You seek for answers everywhere,

And ask the question "Why?"

You regulate restrictive laws,

Through legislative creed.

And yet you fail to understand,

That God is what we need!

"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. "As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA -- I give to you a sincere challenge.. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone!

My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!"

- Darrell Scott


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## Mvalenz (Dec 19, 2012)

I agree. I went to a Catholic school for grade school and public school for junior high up. Big difference.


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## Paradoxica (Dec 19, 2012)

As heartfelt and eloquently worded as that was, this is a very dangerous sentiment. It is human nature to have a knee jerk reaction to such a awful tragedy, but the separation of church and state is there for a good reason. These innocent children did not die because of an act of god, keep in mind that the shooter in Newtown was a church goer.

People will always use tragedy to further their religious/political agenda, but we cannot let our feelings of outrage and sorrow allow us to go against what this country stands for (I am reminded of the swift invasion of Iraq after 9/11).

I do not mean to offend anyone but times like these it is more important than ever to proceed with caution.


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## Precarious (Dec 19, 2012)

Let a kid play Call of Duty every day for hours on end where all you do is shoot people and see what happens. Bring a child up in a culture that glorifies the military in propaganda films and TV shows and see what happens. Killing people is cool!

http://www.businessinsider.com/adam-lanza-played-call-of-duty-2012-12

The political reaction isn't really to scapegoat the NRA. That's just part of the ploy to get the people behind nullifying the 2nd Amendment. You know, the one where the Forefathers pointed out that the people should always remain armed to protect themselves should the government become tyrannical? We are not supposed to depend on the police to protect us. The US was founded as a group of individuals. And if anyone had been armed and able to confront the shooters the story would be completely different. Happens all the time and you don't hear about it. So like guns or hate them, they protect you from other people with guns, and gun laws obviously don't work because Connecticut has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation.

http://www.naturalnews.com/038404_massacres_gun_owners_defense.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/12/17/connecticut-gun-laws-among-the-nations-strictest/

In addition, psychiatric drugs have been repeatedly shown to, in some cases, cause the opposite effect they are supposed to. They cause depression, suicidal thoughts and violent outbursts. Check out what drugs the latest shooters have been on. Because they were ALL on antidepressants.

http://www.businessinsider.com/adam-lanza-taking-antipsychotic-fanapt-2012-12

http://www.prisonplanet.com/court-awards-family-for-antidepressants-leading-to-man%E2%80%99s-suicide.html


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## Malakyoma (Dec 19, 2012)

On violence in video games: They have been shown to not increase any violent behaviour in studies already. More often than not they actually calm them down because they have an outlet for their instinctual and primal urges.

On politics: You're right here. There was a shooting at Pearl River MS that you're probably never going to hear about on the news. A 16 year old was stopped by the assistant principal who had a gun retrieved from his car. Gun Free Zone Law didn't and wouldn't stop anybody in that situation, but an armed citizen did. and you won't hear about it on the news because it goes against the beliefs they want you to have.

On antidepressants: So you're saying since I'm on antidepressants I'm more inclined to go shoot up a school? antidepressants have those side effects because they make major changes to your brain and those side effects have only been shown to surface in the first week or so while your body gets used to them. Trying to balance dopamine levels is no small task, and sometimes a certain drug does it differently than others.

And Rebecca: I'm sorry but I disagree. One thing you should know is bibles and prayers are allowed in school. many schools have religious clubs and such who meet every day to pray and read the bible at school. Are you saying we should force students to read the bible? Then we take away their freedom of religion. Being religious does not make you any less inclined to become depressed or do something violent like these people have done, and believing in god should not and can not be the only reason people have for doing the same thing. Personally I am an atheist, I don't believe, but I haven't shot up any schools. Thats because I have morals. Believing in god doesn't give you morals you wouldn't have otherwise.

Something else on religion: I said above im atheist, but I don't say that often. I don't say it often because I believe what I believe and you believe what you believe and I respect that. If you want to pray and bring a bible and bring god wherever you go then by all means I respect that choice. I will never ever try to convince you that he doesn't exist just because its what I believe. Some atheists do, and they make me just as angry as people who try to force religion on others as well. If everyone just respected what each other believed, in stead of trying to force their beliefs on others there wouldn't be so much religious tension. I won't try and convince you that god isn't real, so please don't keep telling me the only way to stop these things is to believe in god.

Sorry for the rant. I'm not a fan of these conversations.

P.S. if you want my opinion on the best way to stop these tragic events... its the media. every time this happens the killer becomes famous. The story is updated every 5 minutes, analysts are brought in to try and find out what he was thinking, you're shown nothing but the killer for days. People see this and think that instead of committing suicide in their basement and being that one depressed guy, they can go commit suicide in a school, or mall, or wherever, and be famous. They can be remembered and known, and every time this happens, people who were going to commit suicide quietly at home see the news, and they think the same thing. I can be a nobody, or I can do what he did and be famous. The way to stop these events isnt gun laws, its not religion, its to turn off the news. Stop making these people famous. Ignore them entirely and focus on the victims.


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## fleurdejoo (Dec 19, 2012)

Malakyoma I love your post and agree with most all of it!

But those antidepressants are being handed out like they're chocolates!

So how would someone's brain react who didn't truly need those drugs?


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## Mime454 (Dec 19, 2012)

Precarious, if the government decided to become tyrannical, we couldn't defend ourselves even if every citizen had guns. The government has missiles, tanks, and naval vessels that couldn't be imagined in the founding father's time.

Should Joe Schmo down the street be able to have his own missile silo? Why not? The amendment doesn't say "guns" it says "arms" which by all means should include missiles. The founding fathers almost certainly wouldn't allow this because of how easily it would be for a person to take away the right to life of others. They also couldn't forsee assault rifles which have similar capability to end life on a massive scale.

All that being said, legislative prohibition never has worked and probably never will. In my ideal world, people wouldn't own assault rifles, but I realize that this is impractical because it would just create the same dangerous black market that we saw for alchohol in the 1920's and drugs today.


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## agent A (Dec 19, 2012)

Social injustices are the real problem here

No perfectly fine person is going to consider taking a gun and shooting people unless they are going to war

With the exception of the newtown shooting, many of the school shootings that happened did not kill innocent people

A lot of the victims of columbine and virginia tech were known bullies of the shooters, and while i dont think every bully should be shot dead for bullying since they r usually more damaged than their victims, some of the victims of these shootings were asking for it by bullying

It just takes 1 to bully the wrong person at the wrong time, particularly a mentally insane person, to trigger a problem

This is why social injustices are bad, someone feels left out or hurt by society, their first reaction is to fight back, and when someone cant restrain themself, they go out and hurt people

Now im not sitting here saying EVERY victim of a school shooting bullied the shooter, but certainly the bullies were the targets and innocent bystanders became victims

I also dont think we need to kill bullies to stop the issue, since the bullies used to be innocent before another injustice, such as poverty or illness on the part of a parent caused them to be brought up in an inadequate, possibly abusive setting

If we can prevent this from happening to kids and preserve peoples loving and tolerant nature, perhaps we could all get along and not feel the need to hurt people

Every story has 2 sides, and while a school shooting has the victims brutally killed, you also have the shooter, a troubled child whos life is ruined and possibly over and whos reputation has become that of a horrible murderer


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## Precarious (Dec 19, 2012)

Malakyoma said:


> On antidepressants: So you're saying since I'm on antidepressants I'm more inclined to go shoot up a school? antidepressants have those side effects because they make major changes to your brain and those side effects have only been shown to surface in the first week or so while your body gets used to them. Trying to balance dopamine levels is no small task, and sometimes a certain drug does it differently than others.


I'm saying the studies done even by the companies that make and sell them have shown they can increase everything they claim to fix. Roll the dice, my friend. And EVERY shooter has been on them in one form or another.

*Another School Shooting, Another Psychiatric Drug? Federal Investigation Long Overdue*

Fact: Despite 22 international drug regulatory warnings on psychiatric drugs citing effects of mania, hostility, violence and even homicidal ideation, and dozens of high profile shootings/killings tied to psychiatric drug use, there has yet to be a federal investigation on the link between psychiatric drugs and acts of senseless violence.

Fact: At least fourteen recent school shootings were committed by those taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs resulting in 109 wounded and 58 killed (in other school shootings, information about their drug use was never made public—neither confirming or refuting if they were under the influence of prescribed drugs.)

Fact: Between 2004 and 2011, there have been over 11,000 reports to the U.S. FDA’s MedWatch system of psychiatric drug side effects related to violence. These include 300 cases of homicide, nearly 3,000 cases of mania and over 7,000 cases of aggression. Note: By the FDA’s own admission, only 1-10% of side effects are ever reported to the FDA, so the actual number of side effects occurring are most certainly higher.

More here:

http://www.cchrint.org/2012/07/20/the-aurora-colorado-tragedy-another-senseless-shooting-another-psychotropic-drug/

What I would also say on the subject is that chemical imbalances are a very rare thing that doctors throw around to justify pushing bad drugs. Depression and anxiety issues cannot be fixed with drugs. They do nothing to address the underlying cause. They only work to mask the symptoms by separating your awareness from deeper levels of your consciousness. This in itself helps to separate users from their humanity, their empathy, and potentially lose touch with morality/reality.

There is no quick fix for a lifetime of bad mental habits; obsessive thought, impulsive behavior, hiding from who we are, refusing to accept reality, refusing to face past traumas. No pill will ever fix these things but the doctors and the pharmaceutical companies they work for would love for you to buy their drugs for the rest of your life and further damage your health in the process so they can make even more money.

Do you think human evolution has led to a species of depressed, anxious people? Or do you think modern culture, diet, and bad information about how to live our lives and handle stress might have something to do with it? The bottom line is most people will gladly offset blame for their own life when an authority figure offers them excuses and drugs instead of taking control of it for ourselves. I used to fall into that category so I'm not pointing fingers at you. I'm speaking from experience.

Do the research on ANY medication a doctor recommends. Search it's name plus "side effects" And "withdrawal" because they are engineering horrible withdrawal symptoms to prevent losing customers. Nearly all of them cause liver damage because they are toxic and your living works very hard to remove them from your body.


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## Mime454 (Dec 19, 2012)

And I find the original post to be entirely laughable. The Bath School disaster happened in a time where public, forced prayer was the rule. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

There is no correlation between irreligiosity and violence. If there were, Anerica would be one of the least violent countries and Japan and Scandinavian countries would have the highest murder rates. The opposite is true.

Prayer is not outlawed in schools, forced, school-sanctioned prayer is. The solution to this problem isn't to force students to pray to the Christian god despite their beliefs. We need to change the culture and our regulations about mental health care.







Relevant image.

The antidepressant issue isn't one that uneducated laymen should make judgement on. Who are we to say that people should or should not be medicated. That is the job of psychiatrists, and our over zealousness towards saying that people are over medicated is part of the problem which creates a stigma about being medicated.


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## Mime454 (Dec 19, 2012)

The killers were on antidepressants because killers are mentally disturbed people. It would be like saying that's most of those who died from cancer were receiving a drug for it.


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## agent A (Dec 19, 2012)

Henry, if i may, while i think you bring up a great point with your recent post on modern culture causing peoples problems, and i do think that maybe these tragedies are a message to society on how hard it makes life for people sometimes (cause getting by for humans is much harder than for other species even when we provide ourselves the basics), if thats really the answer, why doesnt it happen more often? We r all human, the same species

Why do only a few individuals lash out like this? Sure thousands of people are murdered each year, but if modern society is the only problem, why doesnt this reflect more on our behavior? Not that i want more world issues, but if its society and not just a few of its members, will it be easier of an issue to address and wouldnt it be more prevalent?


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## Precarious (Dec 19, 2012)

Mime454 said:


> Precarious, if the government decided to become tyrannical, we couldn't defend ourselves even if every citizen had guns. The government has missiles, tanks, and naval vessels that couldn't be imagined in the founding father's time.
> 
> Should Joe Schmo down the street be able to have his own missile silo? Why not? The amendment doesn't say "guns" it says "arms" which by all means should include missiles. The founding fathers almost certainly wouldn't allow this because of how easily it would be for a person to take away the right to life of others. They also couldn't forsee assault rifles which have similar capability to end life on a massive scale.
> 
> All that being said, legislative prohibition never has worked and probably never will. In my ideal world, people wouldn't own assault rifles, but I realize that this is impractical because it would just create the same dangerous black market that we saw for alchohol in the 1920's and drugs today.


Ask the troops in Afghanistan how all that superior weaponry is working out for them. Eventually you've got to step out of that tank. The fact of the matter is you cannot put a boot on every throat, and if the owners of those throats have guns the bullies paid to exert control will think twice before kicking down your door.


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## Mime454 (Dec 19, 2012)

Precarious said:


> Ask the troops in Afghanistan how all that superior weaponry is working out for them. Eventually you've got to step out of that tank. The fact of the matter is you cannot put a boot on every throat, and if the owners of those throats have guns the bullies paid to exert control will think twice before kicking down your door.


We are nation building in Afghanistan, not really warring. If the government ever encountered an armed mob, a simple chemical weapon could take an entire mob out. We have no chance to take out the power of the US military, and we shrink our chances every time we give them more money for new weapons that they don't currently need.


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## Mëluzynn (Dec 19, 2012)

This conversation is really frightening...


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## agent A (Dec 19, 2012)

Mëluzynn said:


> This conversation is really frightening...


Its getting there

But if we dont address a serious issue how r we gonna resolve it? Nobody asked to be mentally crazy, or to be damaged in a way that makes them hurt others

And when we separate the ill or damaged from society rather than allow them into society and teach them not to hurt people, we send the message that "oh you have to be perfect and blah blah" rather than the message we all should give/get and that is "its ok to be who you are as long as you dont cause harm to others"


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## Precarious (Dec 19, 2012)

agent A said:


> Henry, if i may, while i think you bring up a great point with your recent post on modern culture causing peoples problems, and i do think that maybe these tragedies are a message to society on how hard it makes life for people sometimes (cause getting by for humans is much harder than for other species even when we provide ourselves the basics), if thats really the answer, why doesnt it happen more often? We r all human, the same species
> 
> Why do only a few individuals lash out like this? Sure thousands of people are murdered each year, but if modern society is the only problem, why doesnt this reflect more on our behavior? Not that i want more world issues, but if its society and not just a few of its members, will it be easier of an issue to address and wouldnt it be more prevalent?


I couldn't get into this without veering into "conspiracy theory". All I will say is there is currently a push to disarm Americans. Those seeking control failed to implement their Globalist sentiments which would have allowed easier control of legislation through forfeiture of national sovereignty in favor of a global model of government. The UN, in fact, recently failed to gain popularity for their Arms Trade Treaty, which is a thinly veiled attempt to regulate not "arms trade" but private ownership. The simplest way to override constitutional power is through international treaties. That's how drugs became illegal nationally, instead of state by state regulation through taxation as the founding fathers intended it. That's what gives the Feds the excuse to override state decisions and illegally raid dispensaries in states that decriminalized pot.

The end game involves every increasing consolidation of power. They don't want states owning their constitutional power. And they sure as heII don't want individuals claiming their constitutional powers. That's what all of this comes down to.

I can't tell you beyond reasonable doubt that these shooting were orchestrated, but nor can you prove to me they were not.

“What we need to do is change the way in which people think about guns, especially young people….We have to be repetitive about this….We need to do this every day of the week, and just really brainwash people into thinking about guns in a vastly different way.”

*Attorney General Eric Holder*

“We must get rid of all the guns.”

*Sarah Brady*

“The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing.”

*Adolph Hitler, Edict of March 18, 1938*

Meanwhile, our own government arranges illegal gun trafficking into Mexico to increase the killing and reinforce their stance. Too bad they got caught. But Attorney General Eric Holder knew nothing about it. Yeah, right...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/19/eric-holder-exoneration-fastandfurious-report


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## Mëluzynn (Dec 19, 2012)

Can I give my "external vision" of this problem ? It's not a judgment against someone or agains your country, it's just the point of view of a non US resident that speaks a weird English so I hope I won't be misunderstood ^^

Your (general sense) problem is that possessing guns is in your constitution. Second amendment. So if someone want to regulate guns it will be said that he (or she) is against constitution and so against United States of America.

That's a fact. That's the problem.

Having a gun for your own protection is a thing. Having guns for sport or for collection is an other thing. Having military/assault guns is the problem. Why do you need a gun sending 100 bullets in a minute for your protection ? Those guns are only an open door for massacres.

I saw something in the newspaper today, a frightening statistic about US death by guns : 31'513 death in 2010. 11'051 homicides, 600 accidents and 19'308 suicides.

And the percentage of gun owner for 100 people : 88,8 in USA and 45,7 in Switzerland. That's huge, for both countries except the fact that in Switzerland almost every home have his army riffle (FAS90), army is an obligation here and each soldier keeps his gun at home.

And I don't remember who told me I don't have to speak about this because we have no similar cases here. We had one in 2001 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zug_massacre

And I found an old one, happens in 1932 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanshorn_shooting


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## agent A (Dec 19, 2012)

Wow this is very informative!! What we all need to keep in mind is that gun control isnt the answer

ANYTHING good and legitimate can be abused and used for bad

Guns were originally designed to shoot animals for food, a reasonable and legitimate reason to invent something for practical use

Then some idiot said "hey! You can also shoot people with these!"

Same thing with drugs

Originally used to help with legitimate medical problems, someone had to find out "hey take too much of these, you get high! Mix this and that u get high! Life not worth living? Use these to kill yourself"

So we banned certain drugs

People will still find ways of getting them, and if we just take away something because its been abused, people are just going to find something else to abuse

So regulations like this dont help in the end, because the problem will just affect something different


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## Precarious (Dec 19, 2012)

Mime454 said:


> We are nation building in Afghanistan, not really warring.


Tell that to all the people killed in drone attacks. Tell that to the people pulled from their homes during the night by our troops kicking down their doors. Tell that to the innocent people shot up by Blackwater (Xi) for fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jLO2e2Uozg

So do you think the people would be dumb enough to attack as an armed mod to present an easy target? Or would they safeguard their own families and property? That's why our military has such a hard time in the middle east. They aren't fighting against an army. They're fighting against everyday people protecting the little they have in this world.

As for the rest of your comment I suggest you tape a white flag to your forehead and practice licking boots.


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## hibiscusmile (Dec 19, 2012)

This was a post that was needed, we all need to see more than what the news shows up, as someone said in above post, "we only see what they want us to see". Malakyoma, I never told you or anyone that they needed to believe in _*God*_ , you said that, not_ *I*_ . And while I am on the subject of* I* you wrote my name with a capital, and weather you like it or not, God is to me a person, and as such His name is God, so I would appreaciate it if you would also use capitals when writing it to me. thanks and no offence ment. I do not get into these discussions, I just posted something I saw that I thought was interesting from someone who lost a child that way.


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## gripen (Dec 19, 2012)

I do not want to come across to strong on this one so bare with me  

I do not understand why people worship documents. Whether it be the constitution or the bible the are just pieces of writing that guide thoughts and ideas. They are not the supreme rules of the universe they are just ways of thought.

It is naive to worship them for the simple reason that they were written down. Because of this they never change. Unlike ideas which are constantly growing and changing. When something does not change it becomes out of date. A perfect example of this is the second amendment.

The trouble with the second amendment is our founding fathers would have never predicted the devastating weapons there sons and daughters would create 300 years the future. The second amendment needs to be updated to face the weapons of today, not the weapons of the eighteenth century. We need to be progressive with our laws not regressive or complacent. If that means taking away some of our prior freedoms so be it.


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## Precarious (Dec 19, 2012)

gripen said:


> I do not want to come across to strong on this one so bare with me
> 
> I do not understand why people worship documents. Whether it be the constitution or the bible the are just pieces of writing that guide thoughts and ideas. They are not the supreme rules of the universe they are just ways of thought.
> 
> ...


To say anybody worships the Constitution is an insult. And to say it's just a piece of paper puts you on the intellectual level of George W. Bush. Take that piece of paper away and you have no rights. Then you get stepped on with impunity. It's might against might and you are the little guy. The fact that you so easily dismiss it suggests you know nothing about history. And that is a big problem with where we are headed. Education keeps people ignorant of the important things and this is a prime example. Then you have FEMA giving lectures calling the Founding Fathers Terrorists and just nod.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPg9MdN9Gio


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## Precarious (Dec 19, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHmIB03xJBg


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## Mëluzynn (Dec 19, 2012)

Precarious said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHmIB03xJBg


Seriously ????? Please, tell me it's a fake...


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## Precarious (Dec 19, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGFZDhCjvj0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjXJBpV9YRI


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## Precarious (Dec 19, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6j6lSCfJAY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiiQQP4-Ijw


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## Mëluzynn (Dec 19, 2012)

Gosh...


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## Precarious (Dec 19, 2012)

Mëluzynn said:


> Seriously ????? Please, tell me it's a fake...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtmq0wyk8dQ


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## Mëluzynn (Dec 19, 2012)

Precarious said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtmq0wyk8dQ


Ok...Well, I know why I don't want children... Don't want them to grow in a world like this...


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## gripen (Dec 19, 2012)

Precarious said:


> To say anybody worships the Constitution is an insult. And to say it's just a piece of paper puts you on the intellectual level of George W. Bush. Take that piece of paper away and you have no rights. Then you get stepped on with impunity. It's might against might and you are the little guy. The fact that you so easily dismiss it suggests you know nothing about history. And that is a big problem with where we are headed. Education keeps people ignorant of the important things and this is a prime example. Then you have FEMA giving lectures calling the Founding Fathers Terrorists and just nod.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPg9MdN9Gio[/media]


Please I am not an idiot.

And never talk down to education like that. You should be ashamed. Education is the driving force of the human race. Without knowledge we are nothing. Without education we have no knowledge.


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## Precarious (Dec 19, 2012)

gripen said:


> Please I am not an idiot.
> 
> And never talk down to education like that. You should be ashamed. Education is the driving force of the human race. Without knowledge we are nothing. Without education we have no knowledge.


I didn't say you were an idiot. :shifty: I said you have opinions in common with GW. That's a fact, not an accusation. You used nearly the exact words.

Don't confuse knowledge with education. Knowledge is something you can find for yourself, for the most part. And it seems the really important knowledge, other than technical, are no longer taught. If they do they are so watered down and twisted by agendas they are worthless.

Modern education is GARBAGE. The college system is a scam to start people's lives off drowning in debt unless they come from a rich family. At least 60%of college grads can't find work in their field of study. And 40% of college grads end up taking jobs that don't require a degree. That's what modern education is worth.

Lots of people have seen the system for what it is, dropped out and done very well for themselves - Einstein and Tesla to name two of my heroes.

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-carney-ten-people-who-make-dropping-out-of-college-look-weirdly-smart-2009-9?op=1


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## gripen (Dec 19, 2012)

Precarious said:


> I didn't say you were an idiot. :shifty: I said you have opinions in common with GW. That's a fact, not an accusation. You used nearly the exact words.
> 
> Don't confuse knowledge with education. Knowledge is something you can find for yourself, for the most part. And it seems the really important knowledge, other than technical, are no longer taught. If they do they are so watered down and twisted by agendas they are worthless.
> 
> ...


You named two brilliant people. It worked for them but for the thousands of other kids who drop out every year it does not work. They go into a life of crime or the like.

I will restate again education is one of the best things of the modern world.

And lastly do not confuse my opinions with those of George Bush.


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## Precarious (Dec 19, 2012)

*Here's what Mahatma Gandhi had to say about gun control...*

Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest … if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity.
http://books.google.com/books?id=rN...nation of arms, as the blackest."&amp;f=false

_An Autobiography_
http://books.google.com/books?id=rN...nation of arms, as the blackest."&amp;f=false (page 446
http://books.google.com/books?id=rN...nation of arms, as the blackest."&amp;f=false)
He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honour by non-violently facing death may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden. He has no business to be the head of a family. He must either hide himself, or must rest content to live for ever in helplessness and be prepared to crawl like a worm at the
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/#bidding
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/#of a bully …
[When violence] is offered in self-defence or for the defence of the defenceless, it is an act of bravery far better than cowardly submission.
***
A man who, when faced by danger, behaves like a mouse, is rightly called a coward.
Not knowing the stuff of which nonviolence is made, many have honestly believed that running away from danger every time was a virtue compared to offering resistance, especially when it was fraught with danger to one’s life. As a teacher of
http://www.naturalnews.com/nonviolence.htmlnonviolence
http://www.naturalnews.com/nonviolence.htmlI must, so far as it is possible for me, guard against such an unmanly belief.
Self-defence … is the only honourable course where there is unreadiness for self-immolation.
_http://www.mkgandhi.org/nonviolence/phil8.htm_

_Between Cowardice And Violence_
_http://www.mkgandhi.org/nonviolence/phil8.htm_
I do believe that where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence I would advise violence.

***

When my eldest son asked me what he should have done, had he been present when I was almost fatally assaulted in 1908, whether he should have run away and seen me killed or whether he should have used his physical force which he could and wanted to use, and defended me, I told him that *it was his duty to defend me even by using violence*.

***

Hence also do I advocate training in arms for those who believe in the method of violence. I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honor than that she should in a cowardly manner become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonor.

_Doctrine of the Sword_

If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. Not at the head, where a fatal wound might result. But at some other body part, such as a leg.
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20010515&amp;slug=dalai15m0

Seattle Times, May 15, 2001
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20010515&amp;slug=dalai15m0
*Here's what the Founding Fathers had to say...*

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms, disarm only those who are neither inclined, nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants. They serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
– Thomas Jefferson, 1764

What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.
– Thomas Jefferson

Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who didn’t.
– Ben Franklin

Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property… Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.
–Thomas Paine

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
– George Washington

Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.
–Patrick Henry.

Are we at last brought to such an humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms under our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?
– Patrick Henry, 3 Elliot, Debates at 386.

The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.
–Samuel Adams, debates &amp; Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 86-87.

The right of the people to keep and bear…arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country…
–James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).

(The Constitution preserves) the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation…(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.
–James Madison.

If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government…
– Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist (#28) .

The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.
–Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-B.

To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them.
– George Mason

The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States.
–Noah Webster, “An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (1787) in Pamplets on the Constitution of

the United States (P.Ford, 1888)


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## Precarious (Dec 19, 2012)

gripen said:


> And lastly do not confuse my opinions with those of George Bush.


There is no confusion. On this subject you are of the same opinion.

Now excuse me while I go clear some brush...


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## Digger (Dec 19, 2012)

I want to hide in the basement with Nikki.


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## Malakyoma (Dec 19, 2012)




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## fleurdejoo (Dec 19, 2012)

fleurdejoo said:


> It worked for them but for the thousands of other kids who drop out every year it does not work. They go into a life of crime or the like.
> 
> Just because you drop out does not mean you "go into a life of crime or the like."
> 
> ...


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## Precarious (Dec 19, 2012)

fleurdejoo said:


> fleurdejoo said:
> 
> 
> > Most of the 16 year olds on here are smarter then me BUT can they give a perm?!?!?!
> ...


She does give a wicked perm. So good it should be illegal. That almost qualifies as a life of crime.


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## fleurdejoo (Dec 19, 2012)

Criminally good baby!!!!!!! :gunsmilie:


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## hibiscusmile (Dec 20, 2012)

I thought this was neat!

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=386856791405352&amp;set=a.352591788165186.82463.352587308165634&amp;type=1&amp;ref=nf


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## Mëluzynn (Dec 20, 2012)

hibiscusmile said:


> I thought this was neat!
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=386856791405352&amp;set=a.352591788165186.82463.352587308165634&amp;type=1&amp;ref=nf


Well... I must admit I agree...


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## hibiscusmile (Dec 20, 2012)

hhHa ha, yea me too!


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## Mëluzynn (Dec 20, 2012)

hibiscusmile said:


> hhHa ha, yea me too!


But it's a pain in my *** to admit it...lol


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## hibiscusmile (Dec 20, 2012)

I know, but thats what happens when we are scared or in trouble! :tt2:


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## Mëluzynn (Dec 20, 2012)

hibiscusmile said:


> I know, but thats what happens when we are scared or in trouble! :tt2:


Sure it is. I'm lucky to live in a really quiet place.


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## Precarious (Dec 20, 2012)

hibiscusmile said:


> I thought this was neat!
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=386856791405352&amp;set=a.352591788165186.82463.352587308165634&amp;type=1&amp;ref=nf


Hahaha! That's a good one.


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## Sticky (Dec 20, 2012)

I was glad to have my rifle when a bear tried to get into my house! Scary stuff!


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## Peter Clausen (Dec 21, 2012)

I don't consider myself an atheist because being labeled for NOT believing in something is silly. I've gone on record over this before. But I will say that if somebody is pointing a gun at me, I'm saying a prayer. I won't be praying to God, per se, but I'll be going through the motions of praying because it has only been a few hundred years since our country was founded on principles that separate church and state and I'm a product of that. I can't deny the church is a part of our history, but neither can anyone deny the separation. Neither can I deny that I would do what I have been taught to do in the midst of a life or death situation. We'll take help from anywhere we get it and we have been taught to "pray to God" in a moment of crisis, even if we don't know or care what it means. I say Bless you when somebody sneezes and I decorate my house for Christmas, but this doesn't mean that I think religion has any place in US schools. I respect the traditions of this country, and holidays are wonderful times for families. But JUST because some kid said a prayer in a moment of tragedy, doesn't mean prayer is back in schools or should be.

I'm extremely glad that I had the freedom to grow up in this country with childhood best friends of the following religions: a Hindu friend, a Chinese Christian, A Mennonite and a Presbyterian. Mostly, I'm glad that my parents weren't religious and that I was exposed to these friends AND the science of evolution for (a pathetic) 15 minutes in high school because science is based on facts, not faith. You can't grow up in the American West anymore and not have a respect for all religions (unless you're in Utah, maybe) and you can't grow up in America and think for a second that Christianity is going to make it back into schools for any reason. There are just too many religions out there. It's not fair to give priority to one. This country has been headed in the right direction for a LONG time! Freedom is a two way street though, and sometimes people in other countries do fail to understand why the Christian segment of our population is so strong. Diversity and Freedom make this country great!

My daughter asked me to wake her up at midnight, just in case that silly Mayan calendar stuff was true and this is the last day of the world. I've got just a few minutes left before I head up there and say, "see, everything is going to be okay for us and all that prophecy is ridiculous". And I'll kiss her goodnight and we won't thank ANY God for anything and we'll wake up in the morning to another beautiful day in the American West and I'll feed my mantises and she'll go back to school after the winter break and the world will keep moving forward with mostly good things happening, unless you judge by what is going on in the "news".


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