# Tiny mantid in large enclosure?



## tonyi (Mar 18, 2009)

Hi folks,

I'm new here but I've been doing some lurking to research mantids before getting one. Today I bought an orchid mantis. I tried to pick a female but it was very hard to count the segments. She (if it's a she) is about 15 mm right now. She's quite active, moving around in a manner that seems cautious but curious. I managed to feed her a little banana by holding it in front of her but she hasn't shown any interest in the springtails I offered so tomorrow I'm getting a culture of fruit flies (I thought I'd have that by today but things outside of my control put a stop to that).

The thing is that I already have a 18x18x24 Exo Terra set up as a tropical forest vivarium. It maintains temperatures around 26-28 deg. C during the day and about 23 during the nights. It has a sprawling but not too dense vegetation and a rather diverse established microfauna (at least one tiny spider, a number of woodlice, springtails and various other tiny bugs).

Right now I've put my mantis in a deli cup with a mesh lid inside of the vivarium so that she can benfit from the warmth and humidity inside it. I've read advice stating that small mantids should not be kept in large enclosures because it might make it difficult for them to find food. But in my vivarium there's a rich microfauna living on the floor and I plan on releasing a number of fruit flies into it when she's due to feed. With all those potential prey around, shouldn't she be able to find more than enough food despite the size? Also, I usually have a couple of tiny flies in there (none right now though), they usually buzz around all day long so if she's patient she should be able to catch them by taking up station on the vegetation (I have a large decorative hollow log she could climb and hang from to hunt flies).

I know I'm not supposed to leave an abundance of food with her but these are not crickets and cannot pose any conceivable threat. I'm well familiar with all the organisms presently inside the vivarium, the only predator I know of is the tiny spider and I know that 2-3 mm is its maximum size since I've had those in my previous viv for almost a year.

So, what do you experts think? Keep the orchid mantis inside the deli cup in the vivarium or let her loose to explore the rich world available for her?


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## robelgado (Mar 18, 2009)

Tony said:


> Hi folks,I'm new here but I've been doing some lurking to research mantids before getting one. Today I bought an orchid mantis. I tried to pick a female but it was very hard to count the segments. She (if it's a she) is about 15 mm right now. She's quite active, moving around in a manner that seems cautious but curious. I managed to feed her a little banana by holding it in front of her but she hasn't shown any interest in the springtails I offered so tomorrow I'm getting a culture of fruit flies (I thought I'd have that by today but things outside of my control put a stop to that).
> 
> The thing is that I already have a 18x18x24 Exo Terra set up as a tropical forest vivarium. It maintains temperatures around 26-28 deg. C during the day and about 23 during the nights. It has a sprawling but not too dense vegetation and a rather diverse established microfauna (at least one tiny spider, a number of woodlice, springtails and various other tiny bugs).
> 
> ...


I say as long as you mantain a steady flow of fruitflies in the tank, you can let her out of the deli cup.

You can release the fruit flies and make sure that the orchid mantis is catching some of them to eat.

If he/she seems to have a hard time catching the fruit flies, then you may have a problem until the mantis

gets a little bigger. But as long as the mantis is eating fine, let it run wild


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## robelgado (Mar 18, 2009)

Lol @ the dry piece of poop.


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## Rick (Mar 18, 2009)

Smaller containers are best. In a large container the food has plenty of places to hide and you will have to use much more food insects to ensure she catches them. I would suggest moving into the large one you have once the mantis is adult.


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## Griever (Mar 18, 2009)

Why would you want your nice vivarium setup to be teaming with fruit flies, it just boggles my mind


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## tonyi (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm not particularly worried about the fruit fly situation. I was planning on releasing 10 or so at a time. The ones my mantis fail to catch will probably end up getting stuck in the spiderwebs and then hauled off to the spider's "cave". I usually have a couple of fruit flies buzzing around in there and they tend to disappear mysteriously without a trace on a regular basis. Anyway, I'll make sure she eats regularly in her current small container before I do anything.


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## Katnapper (Mar 19, 2009)

Tony said:


> I'm not particularly worried about the fruit fly situation. I was planning on releasing 10 or so at a time. The ones my mantis fail to catch will probably end up getting stuck in the spiderwebs and then hauled off to the spider's "cave". I usually have a couple of fruit flies buzzing around in there and they tend to disappear mysteriously without a trace on a regular basis. Anyway, I'll make sure she eats regularly in her current small container before I do anything.


I might be concerned about the mantis getting stuck in the spiderwebs, if there are many.


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## tonyi (Mar 19, 2009)

Katnapper said:


> I might be concerned about the mantis getting stuck in the spiderwebs, if there are many.


I've been thinking of the same scenario. However, the spiderwebs are highly localized, for some reason the spider prefers to choose a few spots and then stick to them. The webs are quite weak, usually little more than a few small patches of crossing threads, I've seen bugs far smaller than my mantis break free from them. Although the mantis could possibly get stuck she should be able to free herself easily. I've removed all traces of web except those located at the glass top, which I assume the mantis would not be able to reach. If she indeed gets caught and can't free herself, I'll naturally help her get loose. In the unlikely scenario that the spider comes to investigate the webs and the mantis is caught, he should back off. I've seen him and his predecessors back away before as soon as the creature in the webs is bigger than a melanogaster fly. If he doesn't, he's quite likely to become a snack since he himself is no bigger than a melanogaster fly.


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## bassist (Mar 19, 2009)

If the mantis becomes entangled (which she probably would since mantis' usually hang around on the lids) she may damage her raptoral arms or walking legs while struggling to break free I wouldn't risk it.


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## tonyi (Mar 19, 2009)

bassist said:


> If the mantis becomes entangled (which she probably would since mantis' usually hang around on the lids) she may damage her raptoral arms or walking legs while struggling to break free I wouldn't risk it.


Good point. I can always remove all the spiderwebs. Can mantids climb glass?


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## bassist (Mar 19, 2009)

Most can yes you'd want the top to have some kind of grip to it though for molting purposes.


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## Rick (Mar 19, 2009)

This has bad idea written all over it. The mantis will most likely get caught in a web especially if it is small. Ten fruit flies is nothing in a large enclosure. I put more than ten in a 32 oz deli cup for a single small nymph. You would need to dump much more than that in there. I understand wanting a nice big enclosure that looks nice but sadly they just are not good for single mantids. There are a few species that can be kept together with some success you may want to try.


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## tonyi (Mar 19, 2009)

Points taken, I'll keep the mantis in the small enclosure until it grows bigger. Thanks for all the input!


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