# Female Mantis is afraid of something?



## Mantis Lady (Jul 26, 2018)

where should I start.

It is a bit vague. somehow my Sphodromantis gastrica female (Flash) has hurt herself at her middle leg at the knee. I had put her in the exo terra for her molt. But she is panicking in there. When I took her out she was running if she is affraid of something. But sitting in my hand calms her down a bit gladly. I feel she has less good grip on stuff (her "feet" are normal) She fell a few times. She was used to her cup. There she had no problems.

I moved her to another home, a bit smaller. Maybe that calms her down. I hate to see her like this and she still needs to molt... Where is she afraid from in there? I am not sure what is going on.

Maybe some of you have ideas?


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 26, 2018)

Sometimes changing to a different enclosure can stress them out a bit. She is used to feeling safe in a smaller container or when you handle her. The bigger unfamiliar enclosure may have just overwhelmed her. She is also not used to glass walls and that may be another thing freaking her out, they show reflections easier, perhaps she saw a moving reflection of herself and got scared. You can reduce the reflections by keeping lights away from shining on the walls and blocking off all but the front side with a blanket, cardboard, or posterboard.


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 26, 2018)

I think it is something worse. She was sitting normally in her new home this afternon and then she just fell  and in panic: I took her out and I am holding her to calm her down. I Her  wounded leg in strange position, her "foot" I mean. butshe is moving like crazy.

I am afraid she is is dying, she cant grab anything....

I added a vid then you can see how she is behaving...poor flash I have her since she was L2.


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## Synapze (Jul 26, 2018)

Have you tried putting her in a quiet, dimly lit room, and leaving her alone for awhile? There's nothing to lose since there's not much you can do for her while she's so agitated.


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## River Dane (Jul 26, 2018)

Odd behavior. It’s interesting that you can see how heavily she’s breathing towards the end. Also, What is that black stuff on her leg?

Also, you mentioned that she just fell in her habitat. Are her spasms sort of spontaneous?

As for fixing her, for now I think it’s best to leave her alone. Maybe try giving her honey and water and letting her relax in her new habitat. I’ve found my Mantids to get very agitated when moved into a new habitat, and it seems to work when I just leave them in there undisturbed for a day or so. Don’t take her out or go to close to her enclosure until she’s settled. 

If she hasn’t calmed down by tomorrow, it could be something else, though. Keep us updated!


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 26, 2018)

Thanks for your replies: @River Dane @Predatorhousepet@Synapze



> The bigger unfamiliar enclosure may have just overwhelmed her﻿﻿


I really hope it is just that



River Dane said:


> . Maybe try giving her honey and water and letting her relax in her new habitat.






Synapze said:


> Have you tried putting her in a quiet, dimly lit room, and leaving her alone for awhile?﻿


This is what I did: I gave her indeed some honey/water for some energy.. She drank a litte bit and I moved her to her plastic box and put a cloth over it. No distraction. Don't hear any movements at the moment. I really hope it calms her down. It is sad to see her like this and I never seen it before.



River Dane said:


> Odd behavior. It’s interesting that you can see how heavily she’s breathing towards the end. Also, What is that black stuff on her leg?


That is why I made this vid to let you see what is happening to the poor thing. A vid tells more then I can tell in words. About the black stuff on her leg:  I think she wounded her leg somehow, (maybe with falling down) didn't see it happening. She have that since yesterday. I think it is a crust or something.

I really hope she will make it and grow up to adult an her leg heals with molt.  I really hope she doesn't die.


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 26, 2018)

> 4 hours ago, Little Mantis said:
> 
> I think it is something worse. She was sitting normally in her new home this afternon and then she just fell  and in panic: I took her out and I am holding her to calm her down. I Her  wounded leg in strange position, her "foot" I mean. butshe is moving like crazy.
> 
> ...



She is definitely agitated and extremely stressed out in the video. The injury probably isn't helping either. I agree, put her in a quiet dimly lit place and leave her undisturbed for a day to give her a chance to calm down. Since you've already given her honey water there isn't much else you can do directly. However, you might also want to give her something that's easier to grip onto than the plastic flower since she seemed to be mostly relying on her raptorials to climb it and can't seem to grab it with her feet. Maybe a wide branch or something else with a lot of rough surface area like a piece of bark? But don't disturb her to change it out, just wait till tomorrow after she's had a chance to settle down.


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 26, 2018)

There are some stuff Flash can climb on. For now she is sitting on the ground, last time I saw her. I hope she gets control over her legs again. The injured leg was looking strange, when I put her in her home. I don't know she will be able to use that one but that will I see tomorrow. I leave her be for now.

I hope she has tomorrow enough engergy to climb again and not falling off like she did a couple of hours ago.


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 26, 2018)

Hopefully it's not something serious and just extreme agitation from moving to a new environment. Hoping she will feel better tomorrow.


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 26, 2018)

She was laying on her back, I couln't let her be that way there for the night. I made a stick that she can hold onto. I hope she can grab it with her raptorials..



Predatorhousepet said:


> Hopefully it's not something serious and just extreme agitation from moving to a new environment. Hoping she will feel better tomorrow.


I really hope so. She is in really bad shape


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 26, 2018)

She was on her back? Sounds like she might have fallen and didn't have the energy to flip over. That is a really bad sign but still hoping she can turn things around and get better.

Is there anything else you did differently in the last couple days besides the new enclosure? Anything in the enclosure that she could have hurt herself on or is potentially toxic like live plants?

Is there any possible way she could have been exposed to insecticide, repellant or some other chemical? Do you wash your hands before handling your mantises? Hands can have all sorts of potentially harmful things on them such as bacteria, chemical residue from touching pesticides or cleaners like bleach or detergent. One example, boric acid is extremely harmful to insects and is often used to kill roaches in kitchens. Boric acid can be found in many household items such as laundry detergent &amp; stain removers (Borax), Silly Putty or other kid's slime, contact lens solution, and plant fertilizer among other things. Hands should be washed regularly anyway as they collect bacteria easily.

Or maybe her leg injury is a lot more serious than it looks. Sometimes even a small injury can eventually be fatal to a mantis due to dehydration, shock or infection. Maybe try offering some plain water just in case she is dehydrated? If you do try not to disturb her too much in the process.


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 27, 2018)

Predatorhousepet said:


> She was on her back? Sounds like she might have fallen and didn't have the energy to flip over.


I found her this morning on  her back again. Not able to grab anything with backlegs and raptorials. She  still moves her limbs but it is all cramped.



Predatorhousepet said:


> Is there any possible way she could have been exposed to insecticide, repellant or some other chemical﻿?


I don't think so she got chemicals inside her. When I clean stuff i wash my hands afterwards to not have strange stuff on my hand.



Predatorhousepet said:


> Or maybe her leg injury is a lot more serious than it looks. Sometimes even a small injury can eventually be fatal to a mantis due to dehydration, shock or infection.


I am thinking about the leg injury. I think it causing an infection. I told that to my hubby last night if it is more than rehouse fear. (I am still wondering how she got that injury) Could it be the heat in combination with the injury? It is 29C in my living room. We are having a heat wave and the tempertures are like crazy: 32C outside.

I gave just her honey/water to drink again and put her back. I am feeling sad about this


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## john57 (Jul 27, 2018)

One idea I have but not a expert. Could she had been bitten? That is a very hardy mantis and I have the same mantis. She does have a infection or toxin, no question in my mind.  She is in a lot of pain at the same time trying to get ready for the next molt may not end well. I had a red armed mantis which did display many of the signs yours did but was due to a bad cricket she ate. I put her in a bigger terrarium in order to have more room for her final molt and she did not like to be moved at all.


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 27, 2018)

It is really bad with Flash... she doesn't move at all, only her mandibles....I feel so helpless...



john57 said:


> Could she had been bitten?


I don't know. What could have bit her?


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 27, 2018)

I'm so sorry she has taken a turn for the worse. Her leg injury is probably the cause of this, even very small injuries can be fatal to a mantis. A break in their exoskeleton can let in bacteria or cause dehydration.

You tried your best to help her but sometimes things are beyond your control and there isn't anything you can do to fix the problem. At this point you may want to consider euthanizing her as she is unlikely to recover. I'm really sorry, I know how much it sucks to lose a nymph and how helpless you feel that you can't do much to help them.


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 27, 2018)

Predatorhousepet said:


> Her leg injury is probably the cause of this, even very small injuries can be fatal to a mantis. A break in their exoskeleton can let in bacteria or cause dehydration.


I am thinking this too. I even told my hubby yesterday that I was thinking that it could be an infection, because i saw no improvement sadly enough. I would have seen her molt and mate with Diego.. but nope..



Predatorhousepet said:


> At this point you may want to consider euthanizing her as she is unlikely to recover.


I did...  I even smelled her. She smelled bad. Then I knew I had to let her go. It was hard to do. But her suffering needed to end. I put her in the freezer...??


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## MantisGirl13 (Jul 28, 2018)

I am so sorry for your loss.

- MantisGirl13


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## Synapze (Jul 28, 2018)

Sorry you lost her. You did everything you could have. ?


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 28, 2018)

I will miss Flash. I burried her in my garden. Like I always do with the pets I had. She has no more pain.....


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 29, 2018)

I am going get crazy here, This morning Neyteri dropped down and it looks now like she has the same sickness Flash had!!! But ney has no injuries ! only thing what they had the same they were close to molting. Could it be the heat of the last week? I am giving her honey /water. she is drinking.

I am going to loose ney too, and dont know what is going on??


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## MantisGirl13 (Jul 29, 2018)

Oh no!!!!! Give her lots of honey water to start. Keep us posted!

- MantisGirl13


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## MantisGirl13 (Jul 29, 2018)

Also, move her to a different room from your other mantids to keep it from spreading. Or move the other mantids in case anything is in the air. Give everyone honey water to keep them healthy. Show us some pics of her!

- MantisGirl13


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 29, 2018)

What room should i put her in?, maybe putting in kitchen or so. The others are ok for now


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## MantisGirl13 (Jul 29, 2018)

Kitchen might not be the best idea, because there would be more things in the air.

- MantisGirl13


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 29, 2018)

Hmm but where then? Maybe in the place where we put other stuffs, that is far away enough I hope... if it is something airborne. I hope not. I am going to get crazy if I loose them all







Her she lays, she moves her raptorials a bit. that is all. As you see her wing buds she was so close to molting


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 29, 2018)

Oh no. It could be something the feeders have. Maybe quarantine your current stock and a new batch of feeders until you can verify the old ones aren't sick.


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 29, 2018)

the last thing she ate was a grasshopper I think....


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 29, 2018)

But all the grashoppers looks healthy most of them molted to adulthood.

But all the big mantids ate them :S ugh.....I bought them last week


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 29, 2018)

It's hard to tell what could be making them sick but since its not isolated to one mantis it has to be something either in their environment or something they are eating. Go through everything they are exposed to, clean out their enclosures, quarantine the sick ones and get new feededers. You said the heat may be a problem. Is there a cooler place you can put them?


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 29, 2018)

No, every place is hot, now a bit cooler since weather is cooler. 30C inside my house was crazy. it is still warm, but nicer temp: 25C

But cleaning all homes and get new feeders is something I can do. The roaches are not eaten, yet those I can keep. Keep those for in need. strong insects.

 I bought my feeders (grasshoppers and crickets) last week on a day when petshop get fresh ones.

---------------------------

What i was just thinking what Ney and Flash had in common is that they both were close to molting.


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## cwebster (Jul 29, 2018)

Am sorry for the loss of Flash. Hope Ney gets better.


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## john57 (Jul 30, 2018)

What I do when the enclosures﻿ temps start to get over 83°F is to put a very damp towel folded not to reach the bottom of the tank on the outside with a weight on top and run a little fan on as a emergency AC when the needs arise and can lower temps as much as 10°F. This works well in drier environments like Colorado. Also the black towel in good for the mantis in their final molt and gives them peace and quiet.  I hope that you get to the bottom on what is happening in your situation.


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 30, 2018)

Ney can't molt. She cant hold anything, she just lays in her "bed". I want to know what is going on, the big ones ate all grasshoppers, the creoboters not that i know of, they look fine.

I dont know what farenheid temp is, I know only celsius. The extreme heat is gone


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 30, 2018)

83°F = 28.3°C

10°F difference in temperature = 5.6°C difference in temperature 

He is saying that when temps get above 28.3°C he adds the damp towel and fan and it cools them by as much as 5.6°C

Hopefully, now that the heat has gone down and you've replaced the grasshoppers no more mantises will get sick.


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## MantisGirl13 (Jul 30, 2018)

I really hope Ney gets better. Is there a way that you can prop her up into a hanging position? Maybe hook her feet into some mesh on the top of a cage?

- MantisGirl13


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 30, 2018)

@PredatorhousepetThanks for the explanation.

No improvement in Ney. She is all cramped if she is slowly dying... I don't know a good way to hang a mantis up with feet with no grabbing power...


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 30, 2018)

Cochises and Neyteris suffering is over...?I have let them go..


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## River Dane (Jul 30, 2018)

I’m so sorry for your losses. They were both beautiful mantises, and you had them for so long. I know it probably doesn’t make it much easier, but it sounds like you did the right thing for them.


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## Synapze (Jul 30, 2018)

Thank you for sharing them with us.


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 30, 2018)

It hurt to let them go...3 mantids gone in 1 weekend is too much. But I had to do it. ??

Have to get used to not seeing Cochise on my desk. She was always there.


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## MantisGirl13 (Jul 31, 2018)

??????? I am so sorry! We will miss Cochise and Ney so much. 

- MantisGirl13


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## cwebster (Aug 9, 2018)

We keep our mantises in the bathroom so we can try to control the temperature and humidity there. Dont know if that is whipy the ghosts do well but the chinese do not. Hope your mantis continues to do well. It makes me crazy whenever we lose one and each year, i dread losing them eventually to old age because they are such intelligent sweet creatures.


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 16, 2018)

lost Yoda and Bob too on first 2 days of my vaciation trip. They were acting the same like the others did. 2 survived: Hunter and Ashoka. They are doing fine and could enjoy the Norwegian air. But no mates for them..


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## MantisGirl13 (Aug 16, 2018)

I am so sorry that you lost them!l

- MantisGirl13


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 16, 2018)

I am still missing them all. no new mantis will replace them. They were all unique creatures. I am happy i have lots of pics of them. I will never forget them and how they learned me to have respect for the insect world.

I don't know yet what new mantids I should buy next.


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## MantisGirl13 (Aug 16, 2018)

You should get ghosts! 

- MantisGirl13


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 17, 2018)

MantisGirl13 said:


> You should get ghosts!


I was already thinking about that. But the breeder I buy my mantids don't have them at the moment. I want other species now to take care for. Taking the same species as as the ones I lost I don't think that is good now. I need more time to give it a place.

I found a breeder in England who has them and the cute panthers too. But i am afraid the  shipping trip will be too long for the nymphs.


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## MantisGirl13 (Aug 19, 2018)

Ghost nymphs are very hardy and can survive long shipping trips as long as they are not too long. I think you'd be fine with getting them. How long do you expect shipping time to be?

- MantisGirl13


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 19, 2018)

I think that it will be longer than a shipping trip from Germany: that is 4 days, maybe i should ask the breeder how long it will take. In the mean time I have ordered other species that german breeder has too. I have to think about names: bud wing female L6 (males were out of stock) 2 unsexed L4 Hierodula patellifera. I hope they are male and female. Never seen mantids mate real life. If you have sugestions of cool names you can post them.?


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## ausar318 (Aug 19, 2018)

I got my mantids from England, a man by the name of Andrew Mitchell, his website is here:

http://theprayingmantis.co.uk/

shipping is pretty expensive, if you go for the express (5-6 days), but the normal (which works out to be about $20) takes an average of 9 days, which is a pretty long time, but he is a master at packing them. I ordered my orchids from him, and they were delayed by the post office ?, and ended up taking SIXTEEN DAYS!!! Still, after all that time, they were alive, albeit very hungry, but alive nonetheless. They took a couple of days, but they both ended up perfectly healthy. He was very good with communication, and is a very respectable businessman (Not to mention very confident in his shipping) 

Out of curiosity, who are you ordering from in Germany?


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 20, 2018)

I have ordered my new new mantids here: https://www.mantidsandmore.com/ They are whitin 4 days at my place if it goes ok during shipping.

Oh,  the site you mentioned was the site where I saw the Ghosts and Panthers.

16 days whitout food, poor orchids  There can much wrong during shipping...


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