# Hello



## gare58 (Dec 2, 2018)

I came here to learn from others with experience and share my own.  I have always loved praying mantids since I was a kid and this year was the my first time adopting one from the wild for the winter.  I found her on the back porch railing, very slow moving, the cold was already getting to her and she was very exposed.  I think desperate for food.  

Got an old aquarium for her to live in but I let her out whenever I'm home.  There's a pretty big vine plant on my book shelf she likes to climb in.  See if you can spot her  

She also likes it on top of my lamp.  I lay a hand cloth across it so she's got a warm place to rest. 

Cool tip: So I use a spray bottle for misting her habitat as I'm sure most of you do.  If you unscrew the spray top section, the long straw that runs inside the bottle is an excellent dropper.  If you press gently on the sprayer you can produce little droplets of water from the tip.  She seems to slurp up the droplets much easier than from a q-tip.  Quite greedily.

I try to diversify her diet.  Regularly she has crickets, once in a while a fish and an occasional fat juicy hornworm.  Also managed to score a house fly and some lantern flies one time.

I hope I'm doing a good job and spoiling her.


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## Synapze (Dec 2, 2018)

Welcome! You'll like it here. BTW, great photos. 

Thanks for the water bottle tip... I would have never thought of that.


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## hysteresis (Dec 2, 2018)

Welcome @gare58!

She sure is a beauty. She's lucky to have found you.

The water bottle trick IS a great idea.

I'm new to this hobby. You feed her fish? Wow.

Thanks for joining us!


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## gare58 (Dec 2, 2018)

I had read about mantids being observed eating fish in the wild.  And although I'd like to give her more house flies and moths there aren't many around to catch and my local pet stores don't sell them.  I want to diversify her diet so it's more natural.  She's eaten two small zebra fish and then more recently a feeder gold fish.  I wait till she's perched in hunting mode then slowly manuever a small dish under her with the fish in.

She mostly eats crickets and the occasional hornworm that is = 5-8 crickets.  I know fish protein isn't as high as crickets that's why I only rarely give her the fish but maybe the fish has more of some other nutrient that's good?  I dunno I tried googling nutritional value of fish for mantids but couldn't find anything haha.


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## hysteresis (Dec 2, 2018)

Isn't that something?!

I mean, we read about it, so why not! ☺

Where do you live? There are folk online that will ship blue bottle flies and such.

Excellent start in this forum! 

And, you've kinda made my day, to be honest.


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## Prayingmantisqueen (Dec 2, 2018)

I found her in the vine!! He he

Welcome to the forum!


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## Mantis Lady (Dec 2, 2018)

Welcome  You saved that mantis from  the cold. Did you give her a name?


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 2, 2018)

Welcome to the forum! Most of us started in the hobby by finding a wild mantis!

- MantisGirl1


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## Graceface (Dec 2, 2018)

Welcome!

So cool that she hunts fish! I can't get my Orchids to eat anything but flies. I tried a superworm yesterday and they were so offended by it, lol. It's nice that you provide a varied diet for your girl. What is her name?


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## gare58 (Dec 2, 2018)

I named her Honeydew.

We're in Pennsylvania.  So I'm thinking she's Chinese or European?

I've had her a month now.  At around 2.5 weeks she laid an ooth, then another a week and a half later.  Any chance they're fertile?

I thought of ordering flies but I think her current diet is enough for now.  A hornworm seems to gives her loads of energy and fatten her up.


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## Graceface (Dec 2, 2018)

gare58 said:


> I've had her a month now.  At around 2.5 weeks she laid an ooth, then another a week and a half later.  Any chance they're fertile?


They may be, but there's no way to be sure other than incubate them and see what happens!


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## hysteresis (Dec 2, 2018)

@gare58 M. religiosa (Europeans) always have a 'bull's eye' marking in their 'armpit'.

Being brand new at this hobby, that's all we've kept so far. 

Photo of our first mantis, named Mantissy. You can see what I mean regarding the markings.


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## gare58 (Dec 2, 2018)

@hysteresis Thanks! I guess that eliminates her being European.  Must be Chinese.


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## hysteresis (Dec 2, 2018)

I read, if she has a small dot on each forewing, she's Carolina.


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## Mantis Lady (Dec 2, 2018)

gare58 said:


> Any chance they're fertile?


We don't know for sure she has mated, just keep the ooths and try to hatch them.


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## hysteresis (Dec 2, 2018)

Hey @gare58

Hope I'm not being too intrusive, but what is your profession?

You mentioned undergrad studies in another post, but now you have my curiosity piqued!


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## gare58 (Dec 2, 2018)

@hysteresis I'm a software engineer.  But I started out in psychology so I have a degree in that too.

I'm planning to refrigerate the ooths through the winter.  I might try hatching one after Honeydew passes.  Otherwise the plan is to hatch them next spring and then disperse them around gardens at my parents house if they're fertile.


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## hysteresis (Dec 2, 2018)

Our last mantis produced one ooth. 

I hope it's fertile too. 

Peter Clausen (owner of this forum, and bugsincyberspace.com) pinned a nice post about oothecae. Good tips. Breeding section. 

I keep mine on its twig. I fashioned a 'collar' out of cardboard that prevents the ooth from coming into contact with anything. I lined a glass tumbler with paper towel which I mist regularly. I prop the twig in there and top it with a piece of paper towel held on with an elastic. 

I keep the cup in a paper bag. In Toronto, temps are 25s to 40s °F and humid this time of year. 

I keep the rig out on the porch.


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## gare58 (Dec 2, 2018)

Cool, looks like a good way to do it!  Mine has laid her two in my house plant so I've had to clip out the leaves they're on.  I don't have them suspended at the moment but I'll keeping them in hybernation.  I'll probably use thread to tie them to a an branch when ready to incubate.


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## hysteresis (Dec 2, 2018)

@gare58 it's best not to rest it on any other surface if possible. Kinda "gimbal" it, so as not to touch surfaces. Mould is what you want to avoid, I think.

Plant stem is likely to get soft and decomp. I see that as a complication maybe. Maybe someone with experience should suggest something. I've heard folk use hot glue, even use CA adhesive, to suspend it. Even through diapause. And, especially when you set up shop to hatch nymphs. 

When you do set up, make sure that up side is facing up. They hatch one way is what I understand.

Take this with a grain of salt as I've never done this before.


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## gare58 (Dec 3, 2018)

Oops, I've had them laying down, but I've been very gentle.  I'll try adhering them to some chopsticks tonight.  I'll need to do something like that anyway when I decide to incubate them.


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 3, 2018)

@gare58 Where in PA are you? I live in Coatesville.

- MantisGirl13


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## gare58 (Dec 3, 2018)

@MantisGirl13 Whoa no way!  We're practically neighbors.

I grew up in Thorndale/Downingtown, my family still lives in Thorndale.  I live in Ambler.


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 3, 2018)

gare58 said:


> @MantisGirl13 Whoa no way!  We're practically neighbors.
> 
> I grew up in Thorndale/Downingtown, my family still lives in Thorndale.  I live in Ambler.


That's awesome! I have never heard of Ambler before, but we are pretty close to Thorndale!

- MantisGirl13


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## gare58 (Dec 3, 2018)

@MantisGirl13 It's further East.  Just above, outside the North Philly area.


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## Rick (Dec 3, 2018)

Welcome


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## gare58 (Dec 3, 2018)

So today I got her a hornworm.  Had it on a chopstick while she was still in her cage.  I was just waiting for her to wake up and wander out then I was going to give it to her under a more controlled environment.  Nope.  She climbed out then dove off her cage and spear tackled the worm.  Rolled around with it across my bureau for a few seconds before sinking her mandibles in and spraying a geyser of hornworm juice on my wall.  I know it's in their nature but I've never seen a praying mantis be so savage and hangry.


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## hysteresis (Dec 3, 2018)

Gotta love bugs!

SaVaGe!


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## Mantis Lady (Dec 3, 2018)

gare58 said:


> sinking her mandibles in and spraying a geyser of hornworm juice on my wall.


I hope you could clean the hornworm juice  They are walking stomachs on 6 legs


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## Cole 78 (Dec 3, 2018)

Welcome to the forum!


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## gare58 (Dec 3, 2018)

@Little Mantis I did!  Then had to clean a trail and puddle of it haha.


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 4, 2018)

gare58 said:


> @MantisGirl13 It's further East.  Just above, outside the North Philly area.


Oh, ok. 

- MantisGrl13


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## gare58 (Feb 8, 2019)

Update:

Sad to say Honeydew passed away 2 weeks ago.  Seemed to be from natural causes.  She was well fed as you all know.  Went peacefully laying down.

I thought my mantis days were over...

Came home from work today to find one of the ooths she laid on my plant hatched.  It was the third one she had laid since I found her.  First two were on leaves so I put them in fridge.  Third was at the base of two prominent vines so I didn't want to cut them and didn't want to destroy the ooths just in case... But it seemed so unlikely to be fertile.  I was wrong.  There's now at least 80 hanging out in my bookshelf corner.  

Advice?


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## hysteresis (Feb 8, 2019)

Hey there @gare58. Long time!

Sad to hear you lost your lady, but she lives on in her brood!

How do they feed? Are you setting hydei out to roam as well?


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## Mantis Lady (Feb 9, 2019)

sorry you lost Honeydew. but she left you fertile ooths.

Lol, the nymphs are roaming free in your room  I think that will work against mosquitos. But are you keeping them out and free? They eat fruitflies, but let you the fruitflies roam free too?


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## MantisGirl13 (Feb 9, 2019)

I am sorry for your loss. Have fun rounding up all those nymphs!

- MantisGirl13


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## gare58 (Feb 9, 2019)

Hey @hysteresis!  Yeah been a while.  Just preoccupied with work stuff.  

So yeah they're roaming free but I've managed to keep most isolated by the bookshelf/plant and have been rounding up the adventurers, putting them in random clear containers with paper towel taped on the top as a lid.

Going to hopefully get some fruit flies today.  No idea how I'm going to make this work.  I suppose drop a few in each container then maybe some in the plant.


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## hysteresis (Feb 9, 2019)

Super cool! Enjoy the new mantises!


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## gare58 (Feb 10, 2019)

@hysteresis  Thanks!


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## RebelleSinner (Feb 10, 2019)

gare58 said:


> So today I got her a hornworm.  Had it on a chopstick while she was still in her cage.  I was just waiting for her to wake up and wander out then I was going to give it to her under a more controlled environment.  Nope.  She climbed out then dove off her cage and spear tackled the worm.  Rolled around with it across my bureau for a few seconds before sinking her mandibles in and spraying a geyser of hornworm juice on my wall.  I know it's in their nature but I've never seen a praying mantis be so savage and hangry.


 this is great lol


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## MantisGirl13 (Feb 10, 2019)

RebelleSinner said:


> this is great lol


Welcome to life with mantids!   

- MantisGirl13


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## hysteresis (Feb 10, 2019)

Funny that. In Orin's book, he mentions larger species on their backs happily chomping up their prey.

Yesterday, my adult venosa literally dove at her nice-sized dubia, and somehow ended up on her back wrasslin' it. She lay that way for a bit eating, and I was amazed.

Eventually, she righted herself up and continued. She ate all but a wee bit of guts that ended up on the table.


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## MantisGirl13 (Feb 11, 2019)

hysteresis said:


> Funny that. In Orin's book, he mentions larger species on their backs happily chomping up their prey.
> 
> Yesterday, my adult venosa literally dove at her nice-sized dubia, and somehow ended up on her back wrasslin' it. She lay that way for a bit eating, and I was amazed.
> 
> Eventually, she righted herself up and continued. She ate all but a wee bit of guts that ended up on the table.


Lol ☺ sounds like she put on a show for you!

- MantisGirl13


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## hysteresis (Feb 11, 2019)

MantisGirl13 said:


> Lol ☺ sounds like she put on a show for you!


She did


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## Graceface (Feb 11, 2019)

Wowzers! Talk about unexpected, lol

Feeding may be a big issue letting them free range. You may end up with quite a lot of cannibalism, due to food availability, if you let them continue to free range. It's really your prerogative, whether you want to try to keep every nymph alive in a cup, or let nature take its course. I imagine feeding FF like this will be a challenge. 

If it were me, I would round them up into deli cups and maybe release them to be free range when they are larger and off FF as feeders

Either way, congrats on the surprise hatch!


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## gare58 (Feb 19, 2019)

@Graceface thanks for the tip!

Update: Midway through their second week.  Their numbers have dwindled to 19 by my count last night. 

There's 3 on the big free range plant and the rest are in habit containers.  Most sharing the space.

I tried to keep as many fed as I could but food became an issue early on with so many as well as proper housing space and time as well.  I've literally put in a few hours a day just trying to make sure some of them are eating.  I bought up all the fruit fly vials at my local petstore so I feel there's finally a good ratio for the mantids still alive to all eat.

I have seen a few instances of cannibalism, which are sad but welcomed.  At least I know the victim's death means nourishment for it's sibling. 

Although I'm sad for all the ones that didn't make it I am trying to allow nature to take it's course.  Survival of the fittest.  In nature how many from an egg survive to adulthood?  

Two examples of this:

Dropped a fruit fly on a leaf for one nymph on it.  Struck at it four times, kept missing/knocking it away.  FF climbed over the edge of the leaf to the underside.  Damn, I thought.  I didn't want to lose it.  Looked underneath the leaf.  Another nymph was already under there waiting.  Not only did it grab the FF on the first try but it lost it's footing, flipped through the air and landed on a lower leaf.  Still hung on to the FF.  Impressive, I thought.  That one earned it's meal.

Tried feeding another nymph on a vertical standing leaf.  Had FF hanging onto the surface of a business card.  Nymph was eyeing it up, taking it's good ole time to get positioned right.  All of a sudden, little head and shoulders appeared behind it poking over edge of the leaf.  Another nymph that was on that backside and took notice.  Sneak attack.  Stole the meal.  First nymph looked at the other like "bro... You just stole my dinner." Then walked away in disappointment.

One thing that's tough is I like to have substrate in the habitats so it feels more natural, but it gives more places for the FF to hide.  I'm doing things to circumvent this though.  One thing I have that's really effective I call my feeding jar.  Drop a nymph and fruit fly in it and it's a small jar so very easy for the nymph to get it's meal quickly.  When it's done eating I swap it out for another.


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## Mantis Lady (Feb 20, 2019)

gare58 said:


> One thing I have that's really effective I call my feeding jar.


no free roaming FF is a good idea. so you can keep an eye on your mantids too when they eat.


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## hibiscusmile (Mar 6, 2019)

Welcome!


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## Kittennyx (Mar 6, 2019)

gare58 said:


> Tried feeding another nymph on a vertical standing leaf.  Had FF hanging onto the surface of a business card.  Nymph was eyeing it up, taking it's good ole time to get positioned right.  All of a sudden, little head and shoulders appeared behind it poking over edge of the leaf.  Another nymph that was on that backside and took notice.  Sneak attack.  Stole the meal.  First nymph looked at the other like "bro... You just stole my dinner." Then walked away in disappointment.


awwww lol


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