# Breeding tragedy



## Synapze (Feb 20, 2020)

I've been beating myself up for the last couple of days over losing a male to a female H. majuscula. I feel terrible about it and would like feedback as I can't stop thinking about it. 

I power-fed the female during the day and gave her a large decapitated superworm to keep her occupied since it takes her quite a while to finish one. I had kept the male in a net enclosure for a few days with extra heat to get him acclimated. He was very interested in the female and I was certain he was going to mount at any moment. I looked away for literally a couple of seconds to get another superworm ready, when I looked back, she had dropped the superworm and grabbed the male. I tried to break the two up, but had to make the split decision to either try saving the the male or risk hurting the female... the male wouldn't have survived if I had been successful separating them. Long story short... she ate him. 

Any ideas what I did wrong and what I can do to avoid this in the future? My method was:

1- Isolated the male in a large net enclosure and gave him extra heat for a few days. 

2- Made sure the female was well fed for several days and provided her with food before the attempt. 

3- I placed the female, making sure she didn't see the male, and placed him about 12" behind her. He was interested and about was very slowly moving into position with antennae pointed straight at her. 

4- Looked away for a no more than a couple of seconds. Bam... she had him. 

Where did I go wrong? I've never had this happen before even though I followed the same method and have been successful. To make matters worse, he was my last male. 

Thanks for any tips.


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## hibiscusmile (Feb 20, 2020)

Happens a lot. Nothing you can do usually. You did all the right things. I keep my 12" forceps so I can block her from catching the male. It has helped many times. She grabs the forceps instead of him. He will usually run away but at least he is alive. See as soon as she starts to grab him I put the forceps in between them and she always grabs them instead. Sometimes it fails, but mostly it works.


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## Synapze (Feb 20, 2020)

@hibiscusmile I feel better knowing that it does happen prior to mating and wasn't entirely due to my negligence.

I use chopsticks instead of my forceps and they work great as well. I wish I had the time to separate them. It seemed to be going so well, I let my guard down I guess... even if just for a couple of seconds. Lesson learned. 

Thanks for the encouragement.


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## hysteresis (Feb 20, 2020)

@Synapze All of the above with one thing to add: 

I've been told to situate the male first, then place the female before him. 

She may still have seen / caught him on his way in though, but it requires one less interaction of your hand arms in their 'theater'.

My greedy rhombos often drop food if theyre content with what theyve eaten. sometimes its prudent to let them finish.

Once, Yen postulated its better shes done eating if you suspect hunger is the aggravating factor.

How old was the female? I love waiting a bit with more aggressive sp. The females temper down quite a bit.


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## Synapze (Feb 20, 2020)

hysteresis said:


> I've been told﻿﻿ to situate the male first, then place the female before him.


Same here. That's why I situated him first by placing him in the net cage for a few days with extra heat. He seemed relatively calm when I introduced the female about 12" in front of him. I follow Rick's guide and have had good success... until now. 



hysteresis said:


> How old﻿ was the female?﻿﻿ I ﻿love waiting a bit with ﻿more aggressive sp. The females temper down quite a ﻿bit.﻿﻿﻿


She is as about 4 weeks an adult. The male was about 3 weeks older.


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## hysteresis (Feb 20, 2020)

Synapze said:


> She is as about 4 weeks an adult. The male was about 3 weeks older.


You did well, in spite of the outcome.

It happens, right? I had one lobata female that ate all my males. Luckily, one male got a date with a less severe female earlier, and she gave us babies.


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## MantisGirl13 (Feb 20, 2020)

I like to place the male directly onto the female's back, and have a chopstick or pencil ready in my other hand just in case. I also distract the female with prey.

Sorry you lost your male!

- MantisGirl13


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## FeistyMcGrudle (Feb 23, 2020)

My female orchid was a man eater--she ate two males and almost ate a third. I was able to save the third by spraying the female with water. She literally had his body in her raptorial and I was quick enough to douse her with my spray bottle and he was able to escape. I don't typically hose down my mantises, but I wanted to make sure I didn't completely strike out (even though my female never did become fertile ). He eventually perished of old age because I was too afraid to introduce them again.


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## Synapze (Feb 23, 2020)

MantisGirl13 said:


> I like to place the male directly onto the female's back, and have a chopstick﻿ ﻿or pencil ready in my other hand just in case﻿. ﻿


I did that with a Creobroter male last year and I was shocked that it worked.


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## Synapze (Feb 23, 2020)

FeistyMcGrudle said:


> She literally had his body in her raptorial and﻿ I was quick enough to douse her with my spray bottle and he was﻿ able to escape.


That was my first panic reflex, but it didn't work. I didn't know how hard I could spray without harming her. She did get a pretty good hose down. I'm definitely going to keep the bottle handy in the future. I meant to video the session for reference, but it would have been much too embarrassing to share. There was a little screaming involved. I'm such an amateur.  

Thanks for the info everyone. I'm breeding some P. walbergii pairs today. From what I've read, the females of this species are vicious when it comes to mating.


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## tgrimes (Feb 24, 2020)

Synapze said:


> Thanks for the info everyone. I'm breeding some P. walbergii pairs today. From what I've read, the females of this species are vicious when it comes to mating.


Yes they can be, but I have found that the older they are the more they settle down.  Those girls are very perceptive of their surroundings even with food.  I have found that if she is eating and sees the male but doesn't reposition herself to face him, then you may not have aggression.  Even better if she simply goes back to eating.  However if she does turn around and face an approaching male from behind, then I remove him and try another day.


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## Synapze (Feb 24, 2020)

@tgrimes Thanks for the advice. You may have saved a life.  Luckily I have a good ratio of males and females if things go wrong.


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## hysteresis (Feb 24, 2020)

tgrimes said:


> However if she does turn around and face an approaching male from behind, then I remove him and try another day.




This is one of the scariest things I've observed in the mantis world!

ESPECIALLY when the female turns to him, flicks away the food item (like hockey gloves for a fight), and starts to quiver.


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## mantis_monk (Feb 26, 2020)

This sounds cruel and I could be arrested for even suggesting this. But, has anyone ever tried temporarily binding her fronts with thread (after dinner and a movie, of course)? Please realize I'm just trying to make a joke here, but this just might actually work.


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## hysteresis (Feb 26, 2020)

mantis_monk said:


> This sounds cruel and I could be arrested for even suggesting this. But, has anyone ever tried temporarily binding her fronts with thread (after dinner and a movie, of course)? Please realize I'm just trying to make a joke here, but this just might actually work.


Id doubt shed be receptive to anything in that condition.


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## MantisGirl13 (Feb 26, 2020)

mantis_monk said:


> This sounds cruel and I could be arrested for even suggesting this. But, has anyone ever tried temporarily binding her fronts with thread (after dinner and a movie, of course)? Please realize I'm just trying to make a joke here, but this just might actually work.


When I was a super novice in the hobby and before I found the forum, I tried this with a female Chinese when I tried to mate her (failed). She did not like it and I did not try again.

- MantisGirl13


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## mantisfan101 (Feb 28, 2020)

I prefer to literally stuff the female until she cannot eat or just place a bunch of live feeders in front of her


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## MantisGirl13 (Feb 28, 2020)

mantisfan101 said:


> I prefer to literally stuff the female until she cannot eat or just place a bunch of live feeders in front of her


That's my method too, but I always make sure she has prey in her arms to distract her as the male mounts.

- MantisGirl13


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## Tonypace2009 (Mar 15, 2020)

Hierodula majuscula is well known as aggressive species when breeding. So don't beat yourself up on losing a male.

Female 5 weeks mature watch for her to call and male close to 3 weeks just watch for male to be intrested.

Breeding them  I personally like large mesh enclosure 24x13 feed female up well you want her on the plump side.this way she is likely to kill male for food. Female is still agresive even full so two things need to happen one she needs to be in a best outcome position. I like females up on the high side of enclosure and staged facing away from male. I want my male to be able to approach female from slightly higher if possible position .the males are more likely to mount this way. It's much more efficient for male to jump and fly few inches level or downward toward female this way if she turns or he misses he can simply drop away from female. Second thing the female is best bred when she is in eating mode best to have decent size feeder. I use a paint stir stick it's about 1/14 wide and over 12" long and a bamboo skewer for site blocker and skewer is for moving and testing female. These two tools don't bother or stress mantid at all. Length  of tools keep your hand far enough away as to not imtimadate the mantids. While female is eating use skewer to see if she is absorbed into eating by lightly  touching a back leg if she doesn't notice it then I lightly touch the side of her thorax and apply light pressure if she doesn't respond that's a great sighn she is right where you want her. 

Now for the male I place male in a smaller enclosures day or two before putting female in the male should be watching female if he is ready. Now let male out in area you pre determined behind the female and watch if he moves toward her the movement may be as simple as slowly stepping one foot toward female but his antenna should be pointing her direction. 

Now we are waiting  for the female to finish her feeder and have another larger feeder ready you want her to be eating on this feeder awhile.

Watch the female if she turns or looks back toward male while he is still further back no worries as long as she doesn't reposition her body back toward him. If she does use the wide stick and put it a inch or so in front of her so she can no longer see the male and use skewer to lightly applied pressure on side of thorax you are just pushing her off kilter enough for her to respond by turning slightly. This doesn't stress her it's simply a branch to her that is touching her and she will naturally navigate around. After site blocking she will go back to eating because if she didn't see him then he is no longer there. Lol

When male sees her going after second feeder he should deffitnly be watching her his approach may be realy slow in that case may need to give female another feeder and watch her if she suddenly stops eating most likely she sees him and use side blocker so she can no longer see him she will go right back to eating. Once male gets close enough he will jump slash short fly to her back he will be turned back wards at this point his wings are his shield in case she tries to grab him once either female doesn't respond or she grabs for his wings he will flip around and tuck down low this happens quickly some times with some fluttering. The female at this time will usually just sort of go into a trance like state at least that what I've noticed she will then go back to eating or stay in previous  state the male should try to connect shortly. 

Once connected and female still receptive now main concern is the dismount. If for some reason female travels and gets down to ground level I will start rotating enclosure to get her back at or close to top so at time of dismount male can simply drop away. This is the most dangerous time for the male especiely older males.

I am linking to a video of me breeding the h. Majuscula two videos one of actual breeding and the dismount. 

Wanted get video showing position and a few other pointers but this pairing went about perfect smooth. Only had to use site blocker once when she stoped eating cause she saw the male.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1019869845034848&amp;amp;id=719735221714980&amp;amp;sfnsn=mo

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1020494008305765&amp;amp;id=719735221714980&amp;amp;sfnsn=mo&amp;amp;d=n&amp;amp;vh=e

Not the best video but hope this helps people out I use these techniques for my other large agresive species once you learn what to watch for great success rate.


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