# gambian mantids not mating properly



## nympho (Mar 17, 2008)

hi, i have 1 adult female gambian mantis (a very tiny but beautiful mantis with pointy alien eyes and red hind wings and abdomen as adult) and ive tried mating her with 2 males now. the problem is that both males didnt seem to actually link up, they just search around with the end of their abdomen, but missing completely or sliding off without doing anything. they eventually just sit on top of her not doing anything like theyve given up or something. one in fact has now been eaten by the female, unfortunately, but it took alot of provocation by the males fumbling attempts. the female was fat before the mating (doesnt take much feeding as a big bluebottle is nearly her size) and looked like she was ready to mate, it certainly didnt try to stop them mating. whats up, did i miss them mating or have i just got incompetent rubbish males. is this a normal occurance with this type. im hoping i just missed the mating but dont think so as they stay joined dont they? bit annoyed i never have any success


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## Mantida (Mar 17, 2008)

nympho said:


> hi, i have 1 adult female gambian mantis (a very tiny but beautiful mantis with pointy alien eyes and red hind wings and abdomen as adult) and ive tried mating her with 2 males now. the problem is that both males didnt seem to actually link up, they just search around with the end of their abdomen, but missing completely or sliding off without doing anything. they eventually just sit on top of her not doing anything like theyve given up or something. one in fact has now been eaten by the female, unfortunately, but it took alot of provocation by the males fumbling attempts. the female was fat before the mating (doesnt take much feeding as a big bluebottle is nearly her size) and looked like she was ready to mate, it certainly didnt try to stop them mating. whats up, did i miss them mating or have i just got incompetent rubbish males. is this a normal occurance with this type. im hoping i just missed the mating but dont think so as they stay joined dont they? bit annoyed i never have any success


I mated this species. How long did you leave them to work?

Believe it or not, my male stayed 11 hours on top of my female before he actually connected with the female properly.

Just give it some time and it should work out okay. Also, if your male was eaten by her, you should probably feed her more until she totally rejects food or drops it. This "powerfeeding" ensures not only that your males won't be eaten, but that she'll produce a nice, fat ootheca for you the next day.


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## nympho (Mar 18, 2008)

"I mated this species. How long did you leave them to work?"

thanks for your reply, the males were mostly only on top for about half an hour before giving up. the one still alive was on top for a few hours last time, but i never witnessed mating.

"Believe it or not, my male stayed 11 hours on top of my female before he actually connected with the female properly."

i wonder why they take so long to get on with it. funny things mantids

"Just give it some time and it should work out okay. Also, if your male was eaten by her, you should probably feed her more until she totally rejects food or drops it. This "powerfeeding" ensures not only that your males won't be eaten, but that she'll produce a nice, fat ootheca for you the next day."

yeah she was probably hungry that time but shes grown to 'full inflation' since- ab looks like a balloon. still no success with the mating, the male is watching and creeping closer to her again to hav another go but i think ive just got duff mantids, as they'd have managed by now. they were not even close to aligning the ends of their ab with hers so dont think they will be better next time either. do u think placing cage in the sun (if we ever get some) would help things ?

cheers


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## Gurd (Mar 18, 2008)

I used a cricket tub with a netting lid for a mating tub for mine

Put the male in for a couple of days, meanwhile giving the females 2 greenbottles a day :blink: 

Then put the female in the tub of love and left them to it, saw multiple copulations over the couple of days they were in there.


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## nympho (Mar 20, 2008)

Gurd said:


> I used a cricket tub with a netting lid for a mating tub for minePut the male in for a couple of days, meanwhile giving the females 2 greenbottles a day :blink:
> 
> Then put the female in the tub of love and left them to it, saw multiple copulations over the couple of days they were in there.


he tried again today. thought he might succeed this time as she was doing an opening and closing movement with her private part things (whatever they are called) which she wasnt doing before. but still he couldnt manage to 'get jiggy' so to speak. the male appears to have a hook like structure which looks like its meant to open those two halves of her anatomy, but to no avail. again he gave up after about an hour of mostly not doing much. maybe shes still not ready. the stress is really getting to me lol! &lt;_&lt; for tiny mantids their a right pain in the ..


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## Mantida (Mar 20, 2008)

nympho said:


> he tried again today. thought he might succeed this time as she was doing an opening and closing movement with her private part things (whatever they are called) which she wasnt doing before. but still he couldnt manage to 'get jiggy' so to speak. the male appears to have a hook like structure which looks like its meant to open those two halves of her anatomy, but to no avail. again he gave up after about an hour of mostly not doing much. maybe shes still not ready. the stress is really getting to me lol! &lt;_&lt; for tiny mantids their a right pain in the ..


Perhaps. If it's the male that's poking around a lot, then it's the female's "fault".

How long has each been adult?


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## nympho (Mar 21, 2008)

Mantida said:


> Perhaps. If it's the male that's poking around a lot, then it's the female's "fault".How long has each been adult?


maybe, the tip of her ab does sort of contract away from him and she stops opening those structures when he tries to connect. maybe they stay open when shes ready and hes just testing. age wise, i never made a note, but the female is abit older than male. she'd be getting well over a month as adult now. male probably 3 weeks. doubt they live very long, being so small but perhaps im assuming wrongly , and they just need ages to mature inspite of their size

edit heres a pic of her today

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/macuser/2-3.jpg


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## MantidLord (Mar 21, 2008)

nympho said:


> maybe, the tip of her ab does sort of contract away from him and she stops opening those structures when he tries to connect. maybe they stay open when shes ready and hes just testing. age wise, i never made a note, but the female is abit older than male. she'd be getting well over a month as adult now. male probably 3 weeks. doubt they live very long, being so small but perhaps im assuming wrongly , and they just need ages to mature inspite of their sizeedit heres a pic of her today
> 
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/macuser/2-3.jpg


Well, don't give up  Just wait maybe a day, and stuff the female with food. The male should eventually get it right.


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## Mantida (Mar 21, 2008)

If they are both 3 weeks then they should be ready. The male lives about 2 months, the female 3-4, so you should be alright for a while.


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## nympho (Mar 21, 2008)

Mantida said:


> If they are both 3 weeks then they should be ready. The male lives about 2 months, the female 3-4, so you should be alright for a while.


good, i have another subadult male nearly ready. she bit the pointy bit of his eye off in a fight but he;s doing fine and still eating



MantidLord said:


> Well, don't give up  Just wait maybe a day, and stuff the female with food. The male should eventually get it right.


hope so . i rather like these miniture mantids


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## nympho (Mar 23, 2008)

now im confused. the female has laid a couple of gobs of stuff. this was strait after one of the 'non mating' events today. trouble is they dont look big enough for ooths really -about 3mm and look like random blobs of ooth gunk and not like the ooth i bought. could it be an ooth, do they lay em straight after mating and could mating be so quick i missed it. maybe these are aborted failed ooths . cheers and thanks for help so far. you can just about see it in the pic above. i'll try to get a good pic later


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## Mantida (Mar 23, 2008)

nympho said:


> now im confused. the female has laid a couple of gobs of stuff. this was strait after one of the 'non mating' events today. trouble is they dont look big enough for ooths really -about 3mm and look like random blobs of ooth gunk and not like the ooth i bought. could it be an ooth, do they lay em straight after mating and could mating be so quick i missed it. maybe these are aborted failed ooths . cheers and thanks for help so far. you can just about see it in the pic above. i'll try to get a good pic later


No, they are most likely fertile. My females always lay oothecae a day after being mated. Also, if your female is infertile, she usually only lays 1 ooth during her lifetime, not several.

Pics would help a lot. Sounds like the mating should've been successful though.


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## MantidLord (Mar 23, 2008)

I agree with Mantida, but I have heared of mantids laying eggs (yes eggs) without covering them with an ooth. They don't survive, obviously, cause of the cold weather. But yes, send some pics.


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## Mantida (Mar 23, 2008)

MantidLord said:


> I agree with Mantida, but I have heared of mantids laying eggs (yes eggs) without covering them with an ooth. They don't survive, obviously, cause of the cold weather. But yes, send some pics.


Actually, they don't survive because they dry up without the foam keeping the moisture inside.


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## nympho (Mar 25, 2008)

righty, heres a pic of those 'ooths'; what do you think? dont know whats gone wrong there at all.  






and a pic of a female pre subadult gambian nymph in its 'you cant see me cos ive stretched out my front legs mode'. the cameras an olympus c-740 ultra zoom.


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## asdsdf (Mar 25, 2008)

Ew...They look like bloody boogers.  Hmm...I'm pretty sure that's not a normal ooth.  

I have no idea why it's like that.


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## MantidLord (Mar 25, 2008)

:blink: I...wish I could help you buddy. I've never seen that in my life. I would like to throw my "bare eggs" idea back on the table. Any ideas Mantida? Did you try to mate them again nympho?


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## Pelle (Mar 25, 2008)

That looks pretty creepy..

A normal ootheca looks like this


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## nympho (Mar 25, 2008)

asdsdf said:


> Ew...They look like bloody boogers.  Hmm...I'm pretty sure that's not a normal ooth.  I have no idea why it's like that.


i said they were fooked up :lol:


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## nympho (Mar 25, 2008)

Pelle said:


> That looks pretty creepy..A normal ootheca looks like this


i think theres a big difference. thanks for posting


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## nympho (Mar 25, 2008)

MantidLord said:


> :blink: I...wish I could help you buddy. I've never seen that in my life. I would like to throw my "bare eggs" idea back on the table. Any ideas Mantida? Did you try to mate them again nympho?


im giving them a rest for a bit. theres no point flogging a dead horse


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## Mantida (Mar 26, 2008)

:blink: I've never seen anything like it. They look like organs.

I don't think you'll get a hatch from that, but keep us updated if anything happens with them. Hopefully your female will start laying ooths correctly.


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## nympho (Apr 22, 2008)

well, sort of had good news. my other (younger) female gambian laid what looks like a proper ooth today (although hasnt quite got the structure on pelles photo). it does look normal though. she was with the male for a time a while back; they may have mated but i didnt see them 'do it', just him mounted and trying like with the other female. she was not very old and not that actually that bloated looking before she laid the ooth , so it was a suprise when i noticed it. so maybe i'll get a new generation of these mantids.

edit. i suspect its infertile as ive just tried mating them and he cant connect as before


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## MantidLord (Apr 22, 2008)

congratulations  Good luck hatching them, and I hope you get some more ooths.


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