# Hello from Toronto!



## Anaxi (May 29, 2016)

Hi Guys!

I'm an Aussie living in Canada. When I was back at home I had a mantis crawl onto a beer bottle I was drinking. I thought he was badass so I put him in a container and found random bugs around the house to feed him and it was great fun. After a few weeks he started eating less and I thought I might be killing him so I let him go but I loved the experience. 

I just got my order of a Chinese Mantis Egg since I had great fun with my other bro and wanted to keep one as a pet more seriously this time. I got it set up in a jar wedged in between a forked twig. I plan to release all but one of them into my garden, or maybe release them all into my garden and go find one to keep as a pet in a few weeks once they have grown, what do you guys think is better for a new owner?

Here's my setup, I read that you are supposed to have the egg in a certain direction but I really couldn't find any pictures of which way people had it whilst other people said it doesn't matter so I thought you guys might be able to help me out here - have I done it right? Anything I could improve on?







I just put it outside in some shade with some mesh over the top to cover it but let air in, if I need to do anything else to get it to hatch or if there's anything better I could do I would appreciate the advice. Looking forward to learning about Mantids with you guys and thanks in advance!


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## CosbyArt (May 29, 2016)

Hello and welcome to the forum





The ooth (ootheca, that you call egg) you will want the hatch area to be facing toward the bottom of the container. I have attached a photo of some of my hatched ooths, the one you are interested in is the top-right one and the hatch area is the band in the middle.

Ideally you want to use hot glue to attach it to a dowel rod or stick completely horizontal across the incubation container. Wedging the ooth onto something it can fall when the nymphs hatch, and tape is a death sentence - nymph (baby mantids) can not be removed from tape and will be ripped apart if you try to remove them and they will die. To hot glue a ooth, spread a large bead of hot glue on the dowel rod/stick and let it cool like 5 seconds, you want it still sticky but cool to the touch. Then gently press the ooth into the hot glue, with the hatch area away from the glue on the other-side. With the ooth glued you want to glue the dowel rod/stick horizontal (from top edge to top edge) so the ooth hatching area faces straight down towards the container bottom. See this video of the a hatching Chinese (Tenodera sinensis) ooth to see what to expect.

The container should be plastic as mantids like many insects have problems with climbing glass. I find for the larger hatching Chinese (Tenodera sinensis) ooths (100-300+ nymphs hatch)  a 1 or 2 quart container a good size. You want one with a screw on lid, and cut-out the middle section of the lid and hot glue in a coffee filter, organza fabric, or other material that will provide air-exchange but will keep the nymphs inside. For instructions on making containers read here.  

View attachment 7375


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## Anaxi (May 29, 2016)

Hey Thomas!

Thanks for the quick reply and the advice. I'll have a look at the ooth again tomorrow as it is outside right now and change it up. Can you see that band where they hatch from in any of the pictures? I can't which means I probably have it up against the stick haha oops. I should be able to find some hot glue so I'll work on that tomorrow and I'll change up the container to a plastic one.

Thanks for all the advice mate mucho appreciated. I'll upload another pic when I get it all done and ask for your opinion again if you don't mind!

Take it easy,

- Max


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## Descartes (May 29, 2016)

I am attaching a picture of a T. Sinensis ooth. I position mine just as they are on the bush. If you look at it, it has a kind of point on it which is best to face down. 

And +1 to tape being a bad idea. I use some tape sometimes, but you have to be sure NO sticky is exposed at all. Best to avoid altogether.

Thirdly, I suggest making sure there is NO place for water to pool up while hatching. It helps to mist the ooth every so often, but you want it dry in there when they hatch. I like to stick some scrap tulle or paper towel in the bottom to cushion the fall after they hatch too, though they usually are fine without that.


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## Anaxi (May 29, 2016)

Hi Descartes,

I do remember a definite point on the ooth when I was setting it up. That makes it easy to figure out what angle the put it on as that had me stumped before.

Thanks for the picture and diagram, I'll have another look at it tomorrow see if I can feel the "rough" area where they are going to come out from and make sure to put the pointed area facing downwards.

Cheers!


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## hibiscusmile (May 30, 2016)

haha, yes take it out of those sticks so it can hatch and welcome!


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## Rick (May 30, 2016)

Welcome.

Looks like ooth placement has already been covered!


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## Anaxi (May 30, 2016)

Does anyone know of any videos I can look at where they use the hot glue gun to glue the ooth to the top of the habitat? When I searched on YouTube I only found the stick method that I used which you all have said isn't good haha but I can't find videos of them doing it any other way.

Or perhaps recommend any decent mantid care YouTube channels would be great too. I'm a visual learner more than anything.


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## hibiscusmile (May 31, 2016)

the ooth can be glued easily on the back where the stick is or was. That ridge is ok to glue to and you only need a drop on top and bottom of that

stick channel.


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## CosbyArt (Jun 7, 2016)

Anaxi said:


> Hey Thomas!
> 
> Thanks for the quick reply and the advice. I'll have a look at the ooth again tomorrow as it is outside right now and change it up. Can you see that band where they hatch from in any of the pictures? I can't which means I probably have it up against the stick haha oops. I should be able to find some hot glue so I'll work on that tomorrow and I'll change up the container to a plastic one.
> 
> ...


Sure, did you get your ooth fixed up Max? Any new pics?


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## Anaxi (Jun 8, 2016)

CosbyArt said:


> Sure, did you get your ooth fixed up Max? Any new pics?


Hey thanks for following up!

So here is how I got it now. I have it just in a plastic container with air holes in the top. My plan is to wait until they hatch and then put a few into cups like this: 



and once they're in there set up a proper container for when they grow larger. What do you think? Also I know I have to keep it humid so I should spray it, but my room is a little cold (around 15 degrees usually) and I hear Chinese Mantis are better in around 25 degree temperature. Should I leave it outside? Or in the sun in a window maybe? What do you think, and let me know if there is anything else I should to to them.

Thanks again!

- Max


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## CosbyArt (Jun 8, 2016)

Anaxi said:


> Hey thanks for following up!
> 
> So here is how I got it now. I have it just in a plastic container with air holes in the top. My plan is to wait until they hatch and then put a few into cups like this:
> 
> ...


Sure, more than happy to help.  Looks much better now and is setup for the nymphs to hatch. The only issue I see is the holes appear too large for the tiny hatching nymphs, as they can likely walk right out - their feeders Melanogaster fruit flies will definitely get right out. I'd recommend you cover them with a layer or paper towel, coffee filters, or a tiny mesh like organza fabric.

The nymph cups are fine and what I use myself. Depending on the cup size it will work till they reach L3-L4, before you should put them into larger habitats to avoid mismolts.

Once they hatch and molt the first time, to L2 in about a week, it would be a good time to separate them. The T. sinensis species is highly cannibalistic and if you wait too long even if well fed their numbers will drop drastically. If you separate them too soon it is just time consuming as many will not successfully molt to L2 anyway (birthing deficits and problems).

Of course though unless you plan on keeping hundreds of them, letting their numbers dwindle down to a smaller amount before separating them is a common option. Strangely enough too the nymphs will be much stronger and hardier stock afterwards.

If your room is 15 degrees C you have to provide a heat source, otherwise the ooth will not hatch in such low temperatures. The nymphs too will need warmer temps when they do hatch, as it will affect them. A easy heat source is a adjustable desk lamp and just adjust how close it is to the habitat to get the proper temperature. If you do put it outside do not put them in direct sunlight as it will likely just dry out your ooth, a partial or shady area is ideal. Just be sure the container doesn't get filled with water from rain or anything.


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## Anaxi (Jun 9, 2016)

Thanks again for the tips!

So this is how I got the Ooth now. 
To keep it warm I have put it under a light. Should it be kept warm 24/7 or should I turn it off at night?

Also I bought a spray bottle to keep it humid since I have it inside now however I'm not sure how much I should spray. If you can see the whole container is pretty damp but there's no pools at the bottom or anything. Did u overdo it on the spraying? I also sprayed onto the actual Ooth too which I hope is what you're supposed to do.

Oh and yes, considering they're coming out of that tiny egg I should have realized they could slip out of those holes haha I'll put my mesh over the top for sure.

Thanks again!

- Max


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## Descartes (Jun 10, 2016)

I would shoot for just a tad less moisture on the sides. When they hatch, they will be soft and flexible and small enough that water will "glue" them to the sides. One solution might be a damp paper towel in the bottom to keep humidity high.


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## Anaxi (Jun 10, 2016)

Descartes said:


> I would shoot for just a tad less moisture on the sides. When they hatch, they will be soft and flexible and small enough that water will "glue" them to the sides. One solution might be a damp paper towel in the bottom to keep humidity high.


Yeah I thought so, and good thinking I'll do that, thanks for the tip!


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## Anaxi (Jun 10, 2016)

Alright, latest update with the paper towels added.




Feeling pretty good about it now. Still need to put some mesh over the lid but other than that I think I'm solid. Geez lucky I signed up to this site instead of just using YouTube like I was before otherwise I would of failed miserably haha!

Last 2 questions, should I spray the paper towel every couple of days? And also my GF voiced a concern over flipping the lid over (and thereby flipping the egg upsidedown) when I open it since I'm doing that a bit. Will this potentially hurt the eggs inside at all or are they pretty safe in there?

Cheers again guys, you're the best.

- Max


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## CosbyArt (Jun 10, 2016)

I mist my incubation containers a bit daily, but just try not to soak the ooth itself as mold can be a issue if it stays overly wet. As long as the ooth isn't handled rough it should be fine, but you may want to add a feeding hole anyway. That way you can mist through that and do not have to remove the lid, and will give you a way to feed the hatched nymphs as they will all run out of a opened lid like a swarm.


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## Anaxi (Jun 24, 2016)

*IT'S HAPPENING!!!*




They're hatching! *IT'S SO EXCITING!!!*

Wow thanks for all the help guys looks like it turned out great!

So my plan is to keep maybe 3-5 of them and release the rest.



CosbyArt said:


> Once they hatch and molt the first time, to L2 in about a week, it would be a good time to separate them. The T. sinensis species is highly cannibalistic and if you wait too long even if well fed their numbers will drop drastically. If you separate them too soon it is just time consuming as many will not successfully molt to L2 anyway (birthing deficits and problems).


You mentioned that I should keep them together in there until they first molt right? What is my next step now. Do I need to feed them or do will they just be cannibalistic and then the "strongest will survive" type thing so I can keep the healthiest ones as pets after they first molt? Anything else I should be doing now that they have hatched other than keeping it misted? I had a look at the care guide 



but it didn't seem to have anything on taking care of Nymphs, if you could point me in the right direction for a good resource for that too it would be much appreciated.

This is too cool. Thanks again guys!


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## Mantidaddicted (Jun 24, 2016)

Aw, that's awesome! Congratulations on your new babies, LOL! If you dump some melanogasters in there with them and add some sticks(molting) they may just leave each other alone for a little while until they molt, gives them enough to crawl on and feed on without wanting to eat each other! I've had nymphs shipped to me three in one tiny container and they never attacked each other because there were flies in there to keep them busy instead of each other.


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## Anaxi (Jun 24, 2016)

Mantidaddicted said:


> Aw, that's awesome! Congratulations on your new babies, LOL! If you dump some melanogasters in there with them and add some sticks(molting) they may just leave each other alone for a little while until they molt, gives them enough to crawl on and feed on without wanting to eat each other! I've had nymphs shipped to me three in one tiny container and they never attacked each other because there were flies in there to keep them busy instead of each other.


Great I'll pick some fruit flies up today. Damn they're just so cool! and I'll find a nice stick for em to crawl on. I was getting a little worried that I'd done something wrong but they hatched as soon as I turned on their light this morning and I couldn't be happier, I just hope I can keep them happy n healthy!


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## Mantidaddicted (Jun 24, 2016)

Anaxi said:


> Great I'll pick some fruit flies up today. Damn they're just so cool! and I'll find a nice stick for em to crawl on. I was getting a little worried that I'd done something wrong but they hatched as soon as I turned on their light this morning and I couldn't be happier, I just hope I can keep them happy n healthy!


Oh I'm sure you'll be a great parent! Lol, just keep posting any questions you have on here and they will grow to be happy healthy mantids! Good luck!


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## Anaxi (Jul 7, 2016)

Hi Guys!

Thought I would check in as I have a question. So it has been almost 2 weeks since my babies hatched and I'm a little worried about them at the moment. I know they are supposed to be malting soon but today they started going pretty crazy in their cages, both of them (decided to keep 2). They are both just sprinting around and keep falling off the roof onto the ground and I'm worried they are going to hurt themselves. I took their food out of the cage, they ate last 2 days ago so I put some fruit flies in there today but they weren't really interested in them and were more running around going crazy. Are they just really hungry, thirsty or trying to get a safe spot to malt away from bugs? I misted their enclosure to make sure there is enough humidity in there. Anyone got any ideas why both mantids would be zooming around almost like they're panicking?

Other than that it's been great recently but I thought they were supposed to malt after a week and I'm getting pretty anxious because I know it is a really delicate time for them and I just want them to be healthy!


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## spider_creations (Jul 7, 2016)

Anaxi said:


> Hi Guys!
> 
> Thought I would check in as I have a question. So it has been almost 2 weeks since my babies hatched and I'm a little worried about them at the moment. I know they are supposed to be malting soon but today they started going pretty crazy in their cages, both of them (decided to keep 2). They are both just sprinting around and keep falling off the roof onto the ground and I'm worried they are going to hurt themselves. I took their food out of the cage, they ate last 2 days ago so I put some fruit flies in there today but they weren't really interested in them and were more running around going crazy. Are they just really hungry, thirsty or trying to get a safe spot to malt away from bugs? I misted their enclosure to make sure there is enough humidity in there. Anyone got any ideas why both mantids would be zooming around almost like they're panicking?
> 
> Other than that it's been great recently but I thought they were supposed to malt after a week and I'm getting pretty anxious because I know it is a really delicate time for them and I just want them to be healthy!


I would give them some time but I think since they are about to molt they are trying to get away from each other I would separate them and see if that stops them from acting like little maniacs


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## Anaxi (Jul 7, 2016)

spider_creations said:


> I would give them some time but I think since they are about to molt they are trying to get away from each other I would separate them and see if that stops them from acting like little maniacs


Thanks for the relpy, yeah I'm thinking that will be best. I have them in two separate plastic cup nymph enclosures but they are right next to each other. How long can they go without food? I read somewhere 2 weeks is that true do I need to worry about that? And how long does it usually take for the first Chinese Mantis nymph molt do you have any idea?


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## spider_creations (Jul 7, 2016)

The reason they arnt eating is a good indicater that they are about to molt so I would give them a few days if they molt great. I had mantids that would not expect food before and after molt but they did just fine the key is just be patient.


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