# Manid raptor arms stuck in the upright position



## lectricblueyes (Apr 18, 2009)

I have 2 Malaysian Giant Shield mantids who's arms are stuck up next to their heads. I believe they recently molted. I try hand feeding and they try to grab the cricket but can't, and they don't eat. One looks very skinny and the other is getting there. What gives?

Can I help? Is this normal? Will they get un-stuck?

If this won't right itself, would it help if I put one in the freezer to slow it down, then used rubber-tip tweazers to pull the raptor arms down? Maybe I could unlock the join? The arms aren't dead, and have a short range of motion but they do work. They just can't catch food.

Also, I'm getting paranoid about the crickets I started using yesterday. How bad are they? Do they kill mantids? What feeder can I give them that's bigger than Fruit Flies but will be harmless to the mantid, especially when molting?

I like how readily available the crickets are here locally... is it really bad? I even have a tank setup to breed crickets.. ground up dog food... black dirt from the store..

I tried to take a picture of the mantids arms but it didn't come out good and I'm new with this macro feature on my camera. It doesn't help that I'm highly caffeinated and only using 1 hand to take the picture.


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## PhilinYuma (Apr 18, 2009)

LectricBlueyes said:


> I have 2 Malaysian Giant Shield mantids who's arms are stuck up next to their heads. I believe they recently molted. I try hand feeding and they try to grab the cricket but can't, and they don't eat. One looks very skinny and the other is getting there. What gives?Can I help? Is this normal? Will they get un-stuck?
> 
> If this won't right itself, would it help if I put one in the freezer to slow it down, then used rubber-tip tweazers to pull the raptor arms down? Maybe I could unlock the join? The arms aren't dead, and have a short range of motion but they do work. They just can't catch food.
> 
> ...


The only good thing about your giant shields is that they will die for sure if you can't help them, so you can't do them any worse harm.

MAYBE you can unstick the arms with a pair of tweezers afer wetting the area thoroughly with a wet cue tip/paintbrush. Use water, and if that doesn't work, try alcohol. It's certainly worth a try. I've always been chicken about slowing down a mantis in the freezer, though it should work. Maybe someone else has experience...

A safe method, usually used in labs, is to knock it out with carbon dioxide. I doubt that you have a CO2 cyllinder handy, but here's an old trick, though I haven't seen it on this forum. Put yr mantis in a small deli cup with a mesh lid. Use a 32 oz cup with some warm water in it (not to the top, you'll see why!) drop four Alka Seltzer tabs in the warm water, and as it begins to fizz (CO2, of course) invert the mantis pot over it. You can put a mesh lid on the big pot, too if you wish. This should knock the mantis out long enough for you to operate (have everything ready ion advance!).

Good luck! Let us know how it works out.

Are you keeping your nymphs in the 32 oz pots or the little ones? They need the big ones!

Crickets are fine (Rick is standing over my shoulder as I write this, ROS!), but my Asian nymphs get a lot of house flies.

Cheers!


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## lectricblueyes (Apr 18, 2009)

lmao how embarrassing that was the wrong picture lmao! please delete Phil


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## Emile.Wilson (Apr 18, 2009)

LectricBlueyes said:


> lmao how embarrassing that was the wrong picture lmao! please delete Phil


haha


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## lectricblueyes (Apr 18, 2009)

lol cmon wake up and delete your post haha

::::RED IN THE FACE::::

!!!!!!! cmon! lol


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## lectricblueyes (Apr 18, 2009)

Emile said:


> haha


Send him a PM please


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## Emile.Wilson (Apr 18, 2009)

LectricBlueyes said:


> Send him a PM please


i find it rather funny


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## PhilinYuma (Apr 18, 2009)

LectricBlueyes said:


> lmao how embarrassing that was the wrong picture lmao! please delete Phil


People have tried to delete Phil in the past! I dance on their graves! h34r: :lol: :lol:

P.S. I have saved the pic to disc for anyone who missed it. Will trade for ooths or feather mantids.


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## Katnapper (Apr 18, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> P.S. I have saved the pic to disc for anyone who missed it. Will trade for ooths or feather mantids.


Gosh darnit, I missed it!!! :angry: What was it?!! I wanna seeeeee!!!!!  LOL

Lectric, I'm not sure what is going on with your nymphs...  but it does sound like it could a bad molt issue. Are their arms actually stuck to their heads, or are they just holding them up in a "zombie-like" pose close to their heads? (I'm guessing the latter)

If it were me, I wouldn't put them in the freezer, Phil's alka seltzer gas, or anything, lol. You might end up doing more harm than good if you try surgery... but it's hard to say without seeing them. Do you have a medical license to perform that kind of thing? h34r: 

I have a P. chlorophaea who had a bad molt (my fault for not getting her into a larger container in time) when she was a nymph. Her head/neck was bent over and she couldn't use her raptorial forearms. She would walk around holding them up on either side of her head, like doing a zombie walk. I hand fed her through 3 more molts. With each molt she got just a little bit better. When she molted for the second to last time, her neck was totally straight and she could finally catch flies on her own! She's a normal adult now... but does have some minor "ruffling" of her wings. It doesn't affect her in the least however.

I don't know what to tell you, but I guess to use your own judgement. To hand feed, stick ff's with a straight pin and hold them up to their mouths. They should get the idea and hang of it pretty quickly. They should be able to hold a ff with their mouths while eating it. Sometimes they'll accidentally drop it, and you'll have to re-stick and re-offer it. And they may be able to use the sides of their arms to "prop" the ff up against their mouths.

Don't give up on them, and best of luck with whatever you decide to do! Keep up informed...  

PS.... I have ooths, Phil!!


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## PhilinYuma (Apr 18, 2009)

Yeah, Dave. If you can save the day by hand feeding, try that first!! The only problem is that you are going to have to train a whole squad of GFs how to hand feed them while you're on your trip!

How many ooths, Katt? :lol:


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## kamakiri (Apr 18, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> People have tried to delete Phil in the past! I dance on their graves! h34r: :lol: :lol.S. I have saved the pic to disc for anyone who missed it. Will trade for ooths or feather mantids.


You know it hurts when you talk about me that way! :lol:


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## lectricblueyes (Apr 18, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> People have tried to delete Phil in the past! I dance on their graves! h34r: :lol: :lol.S. I have saved the pic to disc for anyone who missed it. Will trade for ooths or feather mantids.


lol you bastard! I uploaded the mantis photo and another photo my friend took last night at the same time. I linked the wrong file and Phil had quoted it so that even when I edited my post.. Phil's quote still had the picture. It's not a big deal... I mean... it's not a nudy picture. I had a friend over for movie night (we do that on Fridays) and she's a photographer. She LOVES my brick wall and my couch and she's always wanted to take a picture of it (with me). I finally caved in and let her snap a shot of me and my setup here at my apartment. Anyway... she wanted it to look more "urban" and dark. So she had me put on a wifebeater and some dark jeans. (we watch movies in PJ's). I kept smiling when she took the pictures because it felt odd so she made me look down at the ground and run my hands through my hair. Her words were "pretend you just found out you have cancer". Yea.. well if you really wanna see the artsy fartsy picture of me in my apartment...

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/oce...79/IMG_1027.jpg


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## Emile.Wilson (Apr 18, 2009)

LectricBlueyes said:


> lol you bastard! I uploaded the mantis photo and another photo my friend took last night at the same time. I linked the wrong file and Phil had quoted it so that even when I edited my post.. Phil's quote still had the picture. It's not a big deal... I mean... it's not a nudy picture. I had a friend over for movie night (we do that on Fridays) and she's a photographer. She LOVES my brick wall and my couch and she's always wanted to take a picture of it (with me). I finally caved in and let her snap a shot of me and my setup here at my apartment. Anyway... she wanted it to look more "urban" and dark. So she had me put on a wifebeater and some dark jeans. (we watch movies in PJ's). I kept smiling when she took the pictures because it felt odd so she made me look down at the ground and run my hands through my hair. Her words were "pretend you just found out you have cancer". Yea.. well if you really wanna see the artsy fartsy picture of me in my apartment...http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l230/oce...79/IMG_1027.jpg


HAHa nice photo you took


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## Rick (Apr 18, 2009)

Not really sure what is going on here?


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## Katnapper (Apr 18, 2009)

I like the artsy fartsy pic! Nice living room...  

Confused bananna... and confused Rick! :huh:


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## lectricblueyes (Apr 18, 2009)

Katnapper said:


> Gosh darnit, I missed it!!! :angry: What was it?!! I wanna seeeeee!!!!!  LOLLectric, I'm not sure what is going on with your nymphs...  but it does sound like it could a bad molt issue. Are their arms actually stuck to their heads, or are they just holding them up in a "zombie-like" pose close to their heads? (I'm guessing the latter)
> 
> If it were me, I wouldn't put them in the freezer, Phil's alka seltzer gas, or anything, lol. You might end up doing more harm than good if you try surgery... but it's hard to say without seeing them. Do you have a medical license to perform that kind of thing? h34r:
> 
> ...


Phil and Kat, thank you so much for sitting down and typing out all of your lovely advice. When I wrote this thread I felt panicky because I just adore these little dudes (and dudettes). It's so funny because I squash fruit flies and crickets like I was the evil jolly green giant of my apartment but when it comes to the mantids I am very gentle, patient and caring.

I have 7 giant shield mantids and 2 of them have that "hands up, this is the police!" problem. One more has a missing leg but his chances are very good. I orginally bought.. I think 5 from Katnapper. But, being the incredibly nice and wonderful person that she is.. she sent me 7 (and 2 ooths of another species). (I think, or more maybe). Anyway.. the point is... these two guys are probably going to just die. They are much smaller than the others and hand feeding them every 48 hours is something I can do but not something I will ask my parents to do for my 21 day trip (23 if you count flight days). Four of them look GREAT and are very active, MUCH bigger than the others, and are doing very very well. They are tackling crickets that are 2/3 their size and nearly eating all of it! Amazing! Honestly, I only ever wanted 1-2 to survive ultimately. I have to cut this hobby off somewhere because I am so incredibly limited on space in my 1-bedroom apartment. That's why I made that cabinet.. to utilize vertical space. I'd rather have a few of a great number of variety than a great number of a few variety.

Every time I have made a purchase from a member of this board I am shocked at how generous everyone has been. I bought 5 Acromantis and got 14 from iSmart. I bought some containers and supplies from Hibiscus and ended up with 2 free Ooths (Gambian spotted eye and S. Parva). The list goes on and nobody is a slacker around here! So helpful! What a quality group we have here! I'm very lucky and grateful... okay enough sunshine...

Freezer is the best way to put them to sleep? Most humane? Is that why it's constantly suggested?

I've got them all in containers, 16oz. See photo and the two on death row want to say "bye!".

......30 minutes later!

Darn you Katnapper!! Why did you tell me that you can hand feed them with fruit flies and they can use the little grabbers by the mouth! I had them ready for death and all that good stuff! Then I went to snap a "good-bye" pic so they could say goodbye to you... and he's looking at the camera all cute and unknowing and now I gotta freaking keep them alive... I just can't bring myself to kill them....

Well... I tried cricket hand feeding.. that was an epic failure.. then I moved to fruit flies but they just... they don't get it... and the movement scares them when the wings brush their face.. they turn the other way and flee.. so I smashed one nice and good... he wasn't moving so much.. then I just.. slooowwwlly pushed it up by the mouth and I think he got that taste and was like "YUMMMMYYY!" and he ate it like a fat kid loves cake!

The only thing is, they are pretty big.. ready for crickets.. it's going to take 5-6 FF's every other day to keep them filled up. This is a pain... I found that having all the dead fruit flies ready to go was very helpful... if you have the next one near their mouths before they finish the one they are working on, they go right to the next one and start eating with no break. If they get too much time in between, you have to re-earn their trust and they won't go right for the food.

Well, I have 3 weeks before I leave, maybe he'll molt again and can hold food. If not, i'll kill one of my "wavers" and show my dad how to hand feed the other.

Check the custom vid I made for you guys  

*[SIZE=14pt]****BE SURE TO HIT THE "HD" BUTTON AT THE BOTTOM OF THE VIDEO AND GO TO FULL SCREEN  ******[/SIZE]


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## Katnapper (Apr 18, 2009)

Lol! I'm glad you're giving them a chance.  Loved the video! And cut that cricket in half!! A whole one that size is just too big for him to handle and hold right now with just his mouth and the backs of his arms. Gently poke it right on his mouth, so he gets a taste of some of the juicy stuff... and he should eventually take it. This will greatly reduce the time and effort it takes to hand feed. Hehe... did I tell you I loved the video?!! :lol:


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 18, 2009)

Hey Lectric, u can take the crick and cut off his head and put the goo to their mouth and they will take it that way, I usually use a toothpick and stick it in some foam after they have tasted it and even if it is a little bit lower than them even sometimes on the foam they will follow it down if u go slowly! I have a cripple mantis and they always become the mascot!


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 18, 2009)

hey Kat, I just told him that, copycat :lol: and dont try to wezsel out of it, I was first.


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## [email protected] (Apr 18, 2009)

When one of mine had a arm issue i got a tooth pick dip the tip in honey put a fruit fly on the honey touched it to his mouth and he would eat like there was no tomorrow.


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## lectricblueyes (Apr 18, 2009)

Katnapper said:


> Lol! I'm glad you're giving them a chance.  Loved the video! And cut that cricket in half!! A whole one that size is just too big for him to handle and hold right now with just his mouth and the backs of his arms. Gently poke it right on his mouth, so he gets a taste of some of the juicy stuff... and he should eventually take it. This will greatly reduce the time and effort it takes to hand feed. Hehe... did I tell you I loved the video?!! :lol:


Yes, I'm learning more and more as I go. For example, I started with a needle.. like.. sewing needle and that was too short, too sharp, and too hard/straight. So, I grabbed one of those twist ties you use to close up a garbage bag, stripped some of the plastic off of it but left 1/2 of the plastic on there. This was SO much better. I could bend the tip just a little bit, it wasn't so sharp it would instantly go into the mantis, and the flat/plastic part is MUCH easier to grip and hold steady compared to needles. I also found that after I dipped the fruit fly in water, I was able to get the "flavor" close to his mouth and wipe that water/blood/guts on his mandibles.  

Glad you liked the video. I have a tripod, I should have used it


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## lectricblueyes (Apr 18, 2009)

Emile said:


> HAHa nice photo you took


lol forgot about that picture. I uploaded that to send to one of my friends whom was politically "in denial'. He got a good kick out of it.


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## Katnapper (Apr 19, 2009)

LectricBlueyes said:


> Yes, I'm learning more and more as I go. For example, I started with a needle.. like.. sewing needle and that was too short, too sharp, and too hard/straight. So, I grabbed one of those twist ties you use to close up a garbage bag, stripped some of the plastic off of it but left 1/2 of the plastic on there. This was SO much better. I could bend the tip just a little bit, it wasn't so sharp it would instantly go into the mantis, and the flat/plastic party is MUCH easier to grip and hold steady compared to needles. I also found that after I dipped the fruit fly in water, I was able to get the "flavor" close to his mouth and wipe that water/blood/guts on his mandibles.  Glad you liked the video. I have a tripod, I should have used it


I was wondering (and was going to ask, but you beat me to it!) what that was you were using to feed him with! :lol: Good idea!  I'll have to remember that and try it next time I have to hand feed.  Many thanks for the tip!!!  Holding a short straight pin does get tedious! Gives me cramps in my hands too (carpal tunnel... still, although I've had surgeries on both wrists).


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## Katnapper (Apr 19, 2009)

hibiscusmile said:


> hey Kat, I just told him that, copycat :lol: and dont try to wezsel out of it, I was first.


No, I was first!  Na na na na naaaa.... :lol: 

You're not my secret long-lost evil twin sister are you?  Surely not... you already have one twin!


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## lectricblueyes (Apr 19, 2009)

Katnapper said:


> No, I was first!  Na na na na naaaa.... :lol: You're not my secret long-lost evil twin sister are you?  Surely not... you already have one twin!


Now girls girls girls.... calm down. Plenty of.. advice... to go around


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## Katnapper (Apr 19, 2009)

LectricBlueyes said:


> Now girls girls girls.... calm down. Plenty of.. advice... to go around


  :lol: !!!


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## lectricblueyes (Apr 20, 2009)

Chase said:


> When one of mine had a arm issue i got a tooth pick dip the tip in honey put a fruit fly on the honey touched it to his mouth and he would eat like there was no tomorrow.


AWESOME tip. It only takes a single drop of honey and you can use that drop like 20 times since you need almost nothing to make the tip stick to a fruit fly. This was very helpful, thank you! Another great tip!


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## kamakiri (Apr 22, 2009)

LectricBlueyes said:


> AWESOME tip. It only takes a single drop of honey and you can use that drop like 20 times since you need almost nothing to make the tip stick to a fruit fly. This was very helpful, thank you! Another great tip!


Ah yes, honey *is* the best edible glue!

It's also great for sticking pollen to crix!


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## PhilinYuma (May 6, 2009)

kamakiri said:


> Ah yes, honey *is* the best edible glue!It's also great for sticking pollen to crix!


A plague on you Forum members! A plague in particular, on folks like the two Rebeccas, 'Lectric, Superfreak and a few more of you soft hearted folks! I received a mismolted S.limbata nymph today, with its hindlegs still emeshed in its cast skin. I really don't expect it to survive, and it is obviously a candidate for the brick/freezer treatment. But instead of doing the obvious, I found myself using a head magnifier and dissecting out the hind legs, so far as was possible, with a mounted needle and dissecting scissors. I did a fair but less than perfect job and then found myself feeding it honey on a stick. It lapped it up, and looked pathetically grateful (how do mantids get to do that?) and I suppose that I shall now feed it mutilated things until it finally kicks the bucket!

But at least I didn't name it! :lol: 

Invocation:

Great Mantis Goddess, take it now,

And heal its wounds and wipe its brow

And set its little spirit free.

You'll do a better job than me!


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## Katnapper (May 7, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> A plague on you Forum members! A plague in particular, on folks like the two Rebeccas, 'Lectric, Superfreak and a few more of you soft hearted folks! I received a mismolted S.limbata nymph today, with its hindlegs still emeshed in its cast skin. I really don't expect it to survive, and it is obviously a candidate for the brick/freezer treatment. But instead of doing the obvious, I found myself using a head magnifier and dissecting out the hind legs, so far as was possible, with a mounted needle and dissecting scissors. I did a fair but less than perfect job and then found myself feeding it honey on a stick. It lapped it up, and looked pathetically grateful (how do mantids get to do that?) and I suppose that I shall now feed it mutilated things until it finally kicks the bucket! But at least I didn't name it! :lol:
> 
> Invocation:
> 
> ...


 :lol: :lol:  !

I really like your invocation too!


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