# Hey hey!



## Rotsuoy (Aug 27, 2020)

I'm a mother, digital illustrator, web developer and part time zoo keeper. Not literally on the last one though. My house and life is just full of critters and that's how I love it. I have four cats, one dog, three aquariums, lots of invertebrates, and too many plants. I've got critters running out of my ears, and I always want more. 

I probably won't post much here, but I really wanted to make an account to lurk and understand more about mantids. 

A few weeks ago I took in a mantis from my garden who was quite small and frail looking. We were going to have a huge storm for the next several days so it was like a kick in the guts seeing her out there, knowing she'd probably die. I don't condone catching and keeping wild animals, but since mantids aren't native to my area, at all, I felt like it wouldn't be much harm to my garden ecosystem. I'm very, very protective of all the critters in my garden. While most of my neighbors have one species lawns or artificial turf, I prefer biodiversity in my yard, and that includes the fauna as well as the flora. It's my rehabber instincts. I was a registered wildlife rehabilitator back in my last home state, and I'd like to get registered up here too, but, you know, life finds a way, for better or worse!

My Grammostola rosea, named Woof, passed about a week before I took in the mantis. She was 18 years old! I got her right before college when she was 3-4 years old. I even kind of expected her to go soon, because she was doing the geriatric tarantula walk. Just because you're expecting it doesn't mean it hurts any less though. I had her through so many other pets, and she even moved literally across country with me just a few years ago.

Soooo, of course I had plenty of means to care for the mantis. I brought her in, fed her a cricket nymph (I still had some after Woof passed), and got to work identifying her. I believed she was a young Tenodera aridifolia, and as she's grown in my care, I'm more and more confident with that identification, but I would love to know if I'm mistaken! (I'll add pictures to the post!) She's huge now! A little over three inches, and she keeps growing.

As the few of days of storm passed, I debated every day if I would let her go to be wild again, or if I would keep her longer. She's definitely flourished. She was very weak when I caught her (didn't look parasitic, just a very skinny abdomen), and she's very strong and much larger now. She's shed twice! I even caught her shedding once and took pictures of the process. Since covid is keeping us indoors and I've been homeschooling my daughter, the mantis has become a sort of class pet, and we love feeding her meal worms with tongs or watching her hunt on her own. I've almost debated getting a male and breeding her, but alas I have other projects I want to do. OTL

After my dear tarantula, my beloved pet rock, passed away, I've decided to start up breeding spadefoot toads. My current stage is tending my vivarium and setting up my dubia roach colony, because frankly, I'm done with crickets forever. I just can't stand their stink and I have to be on top of taking out their dead and dying or the nasty bastards will eat each other. YUCK. I can't stand it. 10 years of raising crickets and I just can't do it any more! I'm so done! I don't even want to clean out the tubs for the dubia colonies, because I don't think I'll ever be rid of the stink. Besides, I don't want to risk potentially contaminating the dubias. That would just devastate me. I also adore roaches! I've been tempted to keep roaches as just pets for a while now, but I kept going back and forth about what I'd do if they started breeding. One tarantula wouldn't be enough to keep up with the colony. She barely kept up with the crickets, but thankfully I have an absolutely gluttonous oscar fish, and I think he'll gladly help me keep my dubias in check if they become too much for the toads.

So let me shut up my rambling and get to the main reason for coming to the forum, as you'll see in the second picture, is that this mantis has droopy butt and it's given her a crease on her abdomen that concerns me.
I've read about people having success with the following and tried them all with no results:


I fed her less each meal to keep her abdomen from being too heavy.

I gave her a break on feeding for three days.

I fed her big meals to fill out her abdomen.

I added more fake plants so she has more to sit on that's not hanging upside down.

I lowered the fake plants to keep her from reaching the top.

I fed her small and frequent meals to keep her from going into hunt mode, so she'd sit still right-side up.

I misted her more often.

I misted her less often.

As you can see I've read a WIDE range of things people claimed helped with no success- many of which were so impractical or downright dangerous. So what I've been doing now is just sitting her upright on my desk, let her eat and sit and clean, watch her abdomen to make sure the food is moving all the way down and not getting stuck at the crease, and then trying to sit her as low as possible back in her enclosure after she's done eating. I guess all I can do now is wait until she has her adult wings and hope they stabilize her abdomen? I don't want to put anything physical on her body to support her abdomen, because I worry that anything I use would mess up her next shed.

I'm very experienced with many different kinds of invertebrates (mostly tarantulas, beetles, meal worms and of course crickets), but I've never cared for a mantis before. This is definitely out of my realm of knowledge. Practical advice would be much appreciated, and I don't doubt I'll get some here! You all seem very knowledgeable and experienced!

Unrelated question, but do you think isopods would eat mantis shed? I've been saving her sheds and the sheds from meal worms to toss in my vivarium when I get isopods. I know they love reptile shed, but I've never heard of them eating the shed of other invertebrates. I feel like the answer is yes, but I had to ask!

Attached images:
Mantis-01.png (the first one) is little while after her second shed with me. I was excited to see wing buds!
Mantis-02.png (the second one) is from tonight, just a few minutes ago. You can see the crease at the base of her abdomen. Is it just me or does she look ready to shed? Gosh I hope so!

(Sorry for the text wall! I'm just excited to be here!)


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## MrGhostMantis (Aug 28, 2020)

Dang this is quite the introduction! It is a Tendora sinensis, and by its size, probably male  

Welcome though! I have a tarantula right now and another on the way, sadly my current and first one is a male. The next is an unsexed C. versicolor.  Nice to meet you!


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## Rotsuoy (Aug 28, 2020)

MrGhostMantis said:


> Dang this is quite the introduction! It is a Tendora sinensis, and by its size, probably male
> 
> Welcome though! I have a tarantula right now and another on the way, sadly my current and first one is a male. The next is an unsexed C. versicolor.  Nice to meet you!


Are you sure about the T. sinensis? I don't mean to sound like I'm arguing or meaning disrespect! I just don't know the difference between T. sinensis and T. aridifolia, and when I looked through my handbooks on local wildlife (like I said, I was going to re-register as a rehabber here!) I only saw Mantis religiosa and T. aridifolia as documented. I also counted only 6 abdominal segments, so I assumed female! I just took a measurement of 3.4 inches (86.36mm) from the top of her head to the tip of her cerci. I promise I'm not being ornery! I just felt really confident in my assessment and wanted to let you know how I drew that conclusion!


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## MrGhostMantis (Aug 28, 2020)

The full scientific name of T. Sinensis is Tendora Aridifolia Sinensis. Big hands   seems I was wrong there, we all make mistakes!


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## Rotsuoy (Aug 28, 2020)

MrGhostMantis said:


> The full scientific name of T. Sinensis is Tendora Aridifolia Sinensis. Big hands   seems I was wrong there, we all make mistakes!


Then why do so many articles say not to confused T. sinensis with T. aridifolia? Are they different? Are they the same? I'm even more confused now! 

I have a love-hate relationship with taxonomy!

And yeah, I have big hands! It's a choctaw trait. I try to grow out my nails to make them look more slender but that just means I have extra nail to pack garden soil in! It's fine though. All the more hand to dig in the dirt!


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## MrGhostMantis (Aug 28, 2020)

They are the same!   

Lol, I’m the exact opposite. My hands are tiny with short nails!!


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## MantisMart (Aug 28, 2020)

I still have the biggest hands @MrGhostMantis

Oh yea and welcome!


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## Rotsuoy (Aug 28, 2020)

MantisMart said:


> I still have the biggest hands @MrGhostMantis
> 
> Oh yea and welcome!


Big hand club unite!


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## MantisGirl13 (Aug 28, 2020)

Welcome!

I agree with everything @MrGhostMantissaid.  

- MantisGirl13


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## Rotsuoy (Aug 28, 2020)

MantisGirl13 said:


> Welcome!
> 
> I agree with everything @MrGhostMantissaid.
> 
> - MantisGirl13


You agree I have big hands too?! No big hand respect on this site. None at all.


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## MantisGirl13 (Aug 28, 2020)

Rotsuoy said:


> You agree I have big hands too?! No big hand respect on this site. None at all.


Lol 

I have big hands too.

- MantisGirl13


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## MantisGirl13 (Aug 28, 2020)

...


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## MrGhostMantis (Aug 28, 2020)




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## hysteresis (Aug 30, 2020)

Welcome, @Rotsuoy!


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## Rotsuoy (Aug 30, 2020)

@hysteresisMmm yes, a fellow King fan. I recently got The Institute but I've been working so much lately that I keep getting distracted from reading it. I'm one of those people that if I set a book down too long I completely forget what was happening and have to start over. OTL

It's been really good so far though! It kind of reminds me of the facility in the His Dark Materials series with Stranger Things vibes mixed in.


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## hibiscusmile (Aug 31, 2020)

Welcome, no matter the size of your hands.


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 31, 2020)

welcome


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## hysteresis (Aug 31, 2020)

Rotsuoy said:


> @hysteresisMmm yes, a fellow King fan. I recently got The Institute but I've been working so much lately that I keep getting distracted from reading it. I'm one of those people that if I set a book down too long I completely forget what was happening and have to start over. OTL
> 
> It's been really good so far though! It kind of reminds me of the facility in the His Dark Materials series with Stranger Things vibes mixed in.


I have yet to listen to The Institute. I listen, because I have no time to read, really. My favourite work is Wizard and Glass from The Dark Tower series. I also really enjoyed Duma Key.

But yes, time to give The Institute a first 'read'. LOL.


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## Mantis Man13 (Sep 2, 2020)

_Tenodera sinensis_often is erroneously referred to as _Tenodera aridifolia sinensis_ because it was at first describedas a subspecies of _Tenodera aridifolia_, but _Tenodera sinensis_ is now established as a full species.
 

I got this from a website. Looks like you were wrong about the name MrGhostMantis.


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## MrGhostMantis (Sep 2, 2020)

Syn: _Tenodera aridifolia sinensis_ (Saussure, 1871)

https://bugguide.net/node/view/12409

Looks like I wasn’t, @Mantis Man13 Tendora aridifolia Sinensis is a synonym of Tendora sinensis.


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## Mantis Man13 (Sep 2, 2020)

BUTTTTTT I GOT IT FROM WIKIPEDIA. That might be the issue?


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## Mantis Man13 (Sep 2, 2020)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_mantis

heres the link tell me if its trustworthy or not.


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## MrGhostMantis (Sep 2, 2020)

Wikipedia is not trustworthy. Bug guide is.


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## MrGhostMantis (Sep 2, 2020)

It says that Tendora aridifolia sinensis is a synonym of Tendora sinensis on the same page...


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## Mantis Man13 (Sep 2, 2020)

Lol so I got schooled by a person when I first joined this forum in my introduction page about this same topic when I said that it was the full name you mention and not just tenorada sinensis like 8 years ago and this person said that i wasnt right and now I find that I actually was right all along well this is funny.


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## Mantis Man13 (Sep 2, 2020)

This is the reason why I thought u were wrong because when I said the same thing you said to another person 8 years ago they told me I was wrong.


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## MrGhostMantis (Sep 2, 2020)

Don’t trust anyone unless they give you reliable sources.


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## hysteresis (Sep 22, 2020)

Rotsuoy said:


> @hysteresisMmm yes, a fellow King fan. I recently got The Institute but I've been working so much lately that I keep getting distracted from reading it. I'm one of those people that if I set a book down too long I completely forget what was happening and have to start over. OTL
> 
> It's been really good so far though! It kind of reminds me of the facility in the His Dark Materials series with Stranger Things vibes mixed in.


JUST.... WOOOOOW!


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