# Random chinese death



## MantidLord (Oct 2, 2010)

Hi guys, I have a dozen or so chinese nymphs. Most have gotten pretty large. Long story short I have four that were pretty large, possibly sub adult, but all male. On the flip side my only known female had just molted to subadult the other day. Her molt was scary because she had molted so close to the ground, that I had to pick her stick up so she could finish. Once she got out, she seemed alright. She even ate something the next day, as her abdomen was full. However something caused her to go down hill. She died today after hanging on a twig. I don't understand what could have caused this as I haven't had any deaths since the L3 stage. She's possibly my only female and she literally up and died. So much promise, wasted. I took pictures of her and her next to an Iris oratoria adult female for size comparison. Man this really sucks...


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## hibiscusmile (Oct 2, 2010)

Did u see her eat? thats too bad, but they die just like we do. now all u got is boys? :blink:


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## MantidLord (Oct 2, 2010)

I did not see her eat. So I assumed she did it when I was at school. Her abdomen was large as if she had eaten a large cricket. She had moved around quite a lot, being on top of the container after her molt (where I placed her) and being on a stick on the far side of the container. She had appeared to be stalking another prey item today. I noticed one of her legs was in the air, then the second was in the air. Then her breathing was irregular, moving her thorax and the back of her abdomen in exaggerated pulsations. That's when I tried to pick her up. She fell, and I was able to pick her up by her leg, not a good sign. And now I have 6 boys that I know of. I have four other mantids that I can't id the sex because they are too small.


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## MantidLord (Oct 2, 2010)

Here are the pictures:

Yesterday, seemed normal







Today's position, I thought she was stalking the mantis on the right.






Poor thing, taken out the container






Size comparison to an adult female I. oratoria. Note that the iris is closer to the camera, making her look larger.






Anyone have an idea how far away she was from an adult? And obviously, I'm in need for another female of similar instar.


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## dgerndt (Nov 11, 2010)

I was told that Chinese nymphs die for no reason all the time. I got five nymphs and one died on the 10 minute drive home. But this isn't a small nymph, so I'm not so sure. I see some dark spots on her forearms, though. That could be a sign that there's too much humidity and she could have died from bacteria or mold growing on her.


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## MantidLord (Nov 25, 2010)

Hi, usually the random deaths stop before they reach that stage, usually. The dark spots you see are characteristic of chinese mantids, though that doesn't rule out possible too much humidity. But the fact that 6 male nymphs were in the same container and had no problem, I doubt it was due to problems with husbandry.


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## lancaster1313 (Nov 28, 2010)

If they are all in one container, try separating them, I have seen a couple of my younger chinese mantids die frim a bite or two from another mantis. If there is a foul smell then it can be an illness, some of my mantids had hard abdominal pulsations with vomiting and foul smelling frass, after eating poorly cared for crickets. Most of my ill mantids died, but I had a couple of survivors when I kept their enclosures as sterile as possible.


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## nebrakacinese (Jan 7, 2011)

I can certainly relate none of mine had died since L2 ,last week I lost several.I have 2 males and 2 females L4 some possible L5,frustrating,my other species are doing well.


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## nebrakacinese (Jan 8, 2011)

Well now I'm the proud owner of two chinese sub-adults.I thoght I'd got better at this.But like every one says they do die random deaths.They were all perfectly healty 2 weeks ago.Well i'll try again.


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## lancaster1313 (Jan 8, 2011)

chinese ne said:


> Well now I'm the proud owner of two chinese sub-adults.I thoght I'd got better at this.But like every one says they do die random deaths.They were all perfectly healty 2 weeks ago.Well i'll try again.


I'm sorry to read that.  I also had a problem when my Chinese were subadults. It was illness with foul smelling frass and vomiting. One of them died with no symptoms, so I am a little confused about that.


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## nebrakacinese (Jan 8, 2011)

No smell,maybe some smears on the side of enclosure.Considered putting another ooth on to cook,I just don't like the cannabalism ,and a large amount of nymphs to care for is alot of work,anyone for chinese ?


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## lancaster1313 (Jan 8, 2011)

If there are smears then you may need better ventilation. The only way that I kept a couple of my sick mantids alive was to clean up after them every time they frassed or vomited,(smears usually meant vomiting in my case)If you have the humidity up in the room I would suggest that you keep those 2 loose in the room, preferrably on plants or even false plants, until they recover. Don't feed them until they recover. ismart wrote a post in one of my topics about the vomiting problem. If I were better with computers I would have made a link.


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## nebrakacinese (Jan 8, 2011)

Sir,I'm working with your solution right now.Thanks


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## Krissim Klaw (Jan 9, 2011)

Something looks a little off about her in your pictures to me. Maybe it is just the lighting but her abdomen looks strange to me with how angular the ridges are. I'm afraid I don't really have any diagnoses, though I personally like to wait longer before feeding a freshly shed mantis.


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## nebrakacinese (Jan 9, 2011)

`Mine look the same way same size.The abodomen flattens out creating this strange pattern around it.Is frass when they smear on the sides.I increased the temp of my last two and they look good today.they are a temperate specei used to living in high temps.(it get hot in Nebraska too)Your female look L5 to me ,but i'm a rookie.


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## lancaster1313 (Jan 9, 2011)

Frass is feces, normal frass should be in the form of pellets. I don't know what the smears could be, but it could be vomit or diarrhea. Probably vomit. Whatever it is, it is not good to have smears.


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