# Both front legs deformed after molt



## jayheatherbishop (Apr 23, 2018)

Hi everyone, hoping for some advice...

This is my first time hatching out a Chinese ootheca. I have 15 that survived to the L4-L5 stage. Guess I'm not that great at it. Anyway, I have one that just went thru another molt and so I left her alone for a day so I wouldn't disturb her cage. When I came back to check on her she still had old skin stuck to her front claws. I previously had more than a handful that had issues molting and I'd give them a few days, then I'd carefully separate the old skin and they were fine. Since it is her front claws, I gave her half a day before I gently removed the skin. Idk how long it takes for them to become permanently disfigured but she is. I was able to get the skin off but now her legs are permanently bent/warped under her and I don't think she has feeling in them. She somehow manages to get around her cage and she eats when I feed her with tweezers. 

I guess my question is: should I let her live out her life like this? Is she miserable? Is she in pain? I just feel so bad for her and want to make sure she's comfortable. 

Thanks in advance!


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## River Dane (Apr 23, 2018)

Don’t worry so much about the high death rates, Chinese mantises tend to die a lot in the first few instars. Probably why they have so many eggs in one ooth.

As for your injured mantis, I think she should be able to survive. Her limbs will fix themselves with the next molt, but you have to hand feed her until then. I’ve had best success cutting the prey in half and using tongs or re-wired paperclips to grasp the prey, and hold the gooey cut-end up to their faces. After the initial shock, they gently start nibbling, and soon, she should be used to eating like that.

The other trouble would be making sure she’s able to get a firm grip during molting without her front limbs. She might be able to do it, but definitely makes sure to provide extremely coarse material near the top as molting time approaches, with very soft cushions at the bottom, and few places for her to smash into during her descent. Further than that, it’s up to her.

Good luck with your girl, I hope it all works out!


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## Predatorhousepet (Apr 23, 2018)

If a mantis is mismolting and you have already decided you are going to intervene and help remove stuck exoskeleton, waiting past 30 minutes (to give them a chance to get out on their own) isn't going to help them any. Once a mantis dries out that is it, they are stuck like that until their next molt. You have to work fast and help them before they completely dry out so that any twisted limbs can be straightened out. Mismolts are difficult to know when you should help or not...sometimes it looks like it's going wrong only for them to pull it off in the end.


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## jayheatherbishop (Apr 26, 2018)

Thanks for the replies! 

She is doing great and thriving. Gave her some honey on day 2 after moult and she loved it. Since then shes been eating out of my hand and eating until she's full. She's cruising around her enclosure easily as well. 

I have noticed her eyes go from cloudy white, to blackish, and today they were lime green. Is that normal? Sometimes when I put food in front of her she just stands there and I have to put it against her mandibles before she'll start eating. Other times I just hold it in front of her and she comes to it... Thought she was blind for a second but I think she can see...


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## River Dane (Apr 26, 2018)

Good to know she’s doing great!

I’ve heard that eye color sometimes changes based on light. If it’s dark, they turn a darker color, and when it’s bright, they go to lime green/the color of the mantis. Not sure about cloudy white, but as long as she seems healthy, it most likely isn’t any indication of disease.

Sometimes mantises just don’t feel like eating. They might be slightly stressed, surprised, or they might just not notice the food. They need to see movement.

But overall, she sounds pretty healthy!


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## MantisGirl13 (Apr 27, 2018)

I had an adult female Chinese last fall, and her raptor arms and thorax were severely deformed after her last molt. She survived, and lived longer than any of her siblings. I let her live on my window screen when I had the window open, and I fed her a mash of mashed insect (usually skipper), honey, oatmeal, water, and peanut butter in a bottlecap. She loved it, and she even got to the point where she could trip over to the food dish on her own! just because they are deformed does not mean that they won't live!

- MantisGirl13


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## jayheatherbishop (Apr 29, 2018)

Like I said, she's alive, well and thriving! At first she was in bad shape (hence the reason I asked about  her dying), but with a little TLC, she is totally fine. Thanks for your reply!


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## jayheatherbishop (Apr 30, 2018)

Sorry for the poor quality, but there she is in the flesh... My little deformed mantis, enjoying a honey treat.


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## MantisGirl13 (Apr 30, 2018)

Great! What instar is she? She is really cute!

- MantisGirl


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## jayheatherbishop (May 3, 2018)

It is with great sadness that I inform you, my beautiful deformed mantis passed away this evening.

She went from being perfectly fine, to not accepting food and barely moving. I figured it was probably time for molt, so I set her up a nice, fancy cage. She hadn't yet started her molt so I will never know for sure.   

My heart is heavy...


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## River Dane (May 4, 2018)

I’m so sorry for your loss. It really seemed like she would make it. But I guess even the healthiest nymphs drop dead for no apparent reason. I’m sad to hear that she’s passed, but your efforts to keep her alive will not have gone unappreciated. She had a very good caregiver, it’s nice to see how hard you worked to keep her healthy.

Hope you feel better soon.


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## jayheatherbishop (May 4, 2018)

That's very kind of you River Dane. Thank you.


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## MantisGirl13 (May 4, 2018)

I'm sorry she died! The signs of the best mantis keepers are when they do all that they can to make their mantids comfortable and alive, even when they are sick. 

- MantisGirl13


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