# Orchid mantis care?



## pedro92 (Jul 21, 2008)

I have received a lot of info on raising these, but the main problem is I dont wanna screw up. Any advice. They are L1 hatched about 4 days ago.

I know one of the big problems is that the male is one instar behind the female so they die before the female is ready to mate. Yen said he heats the females up faster. Any other ideas. Also any advice on sexing them. I have one source but as always more is better.

What temp should i keep the males at?

What temp for the females?

What are some major problems?

How many times a day do i spray them at each instar?

Stupid question but what is the easiest way to measure humidity. I dont wanna buy a bulk quantity of those hygrometers or whatever there called.

What is the best food for the orchids. Is bee pollen good for there flies?

BTW i have 15 L1 orchids is it ok to seperate them 1 per container?


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## pedro92 (Jul 21, 2008)

Chameleonare said:


> I have received a lot of info on raising these, but the main problem is I dont wanna screw up. Any advice. They are L1 hatched about 4 days ago. I know one of the big problems is that the male is one instar behind the female so they die before the female is ready to mate. Yen said he heats the females up faster. Any other ideas. Also any advice on sexing them. I have one source but as always more is better.
> 
> What temp should i keep the males at?
> 
> ...


Also forgot to ask how long do these take to reach adult at the reccommended temps.


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## darkspeed (Jul 21, 2008)

As Scott pointed out recently a new foolproof way of sexing them is to look for the unicorn on the females. This does not show up on the males and it shows up earlier than adult stage as my girls are still presub and all have them. Once you determine the sex an alternative to heat is simply to feed the females daily and the males weekly. It worked well with my P.O. female which was several instars behind my males, and by doing so was able to catch up and mate in time before they all died.


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## hibiscusmile (Jul 21, 2008)

I do not seperate them till 3 or 4. There is no need unless u r not feeding them. They seem to do much better, and this goes for all mantis if they are together for a while. It seems to help them eat better, because they have to claim their food, many babies of species I have seperated due to one reason or another and before two weeks are out, they usually die. This is at 1 and 2 instar. I figure they contend better with other living things around them, this may or may not be true, but it is my observation and I use it.

I feed once a day until the 3rd instar and then the boys every other day. They all get misted twice a day when under 3instar.

Mine live a long time and I always have males until the females eat them, so they live a long time and I have never hurried up the females. One reason is because at first I did not know it should or could be done. I am by means no expert, but this is how I do it.


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## AikoAiko (Jul 22, 2008)

My orchid mantises are kept at 80F (the temp of my house in the summer). I mist twice a day for instars L1 - L3 (like Rebecca said) and once a day for the older instars. I feed them D. hydei fruit flies when they start to look thin or hungry, usually every day or every other day. If the mantis looks ready to pop because it's so full of food, I wait until the abdomen looks a little thinner before feeding again. If I have time, I shake the flies around in a bag of Yen's Honey and Bee Pollen Mix before offering them to the mantises.

I do not keep the males and females at different temperatures for several reasons. Number 1, there is nowhere in my house that is cooler than 80 degrees during the day (as I have no air conditioning!). Number 2, I bought several younger nymphs so that I can breed my older females with younger males. However, I do feed the females twice as often as the males.

I worried a lot about the humidity question at first. I just make sure I mist the sides of their containers well and check that their spaghnum moss is nice and moist. To prevent mold or bacteria problems, I change the substrate at least once or twice a week and rinse out their cups. Really, there is no good way for measuring humidity in each individual container if you have lots of little nymphs in plastic cups. So far so good for me, no mismoults or deaths, and the climate here in Colorado is extremely dry.

Mantida posted a link a while back to pictures for sexing orchid mantises. The original post was titled "Hymenopus coronatus (Orchid mantis), Sexing nymph" in the Breeding and Nymph Care section. The females have a "V" shaped notch at the tip of the abdomen, you can see it in the pictures.

http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/orchid-mantis/a...p;l=f&amp;fid=6 

This is my first time keeping orchid mantises, but so far all six of mine have done well through 4 different sets of molts.


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## macro junkie (Jul 22, 2008)

also the way robb does it..the females legs at the end are longer than the males.you know the white bits..dam it i forgot the name now.hopfully rob will explain this more..

oh this cooling down thing every one keeps saying..i was sent 10 2nd instar nymphs from tapi.I housed them all in the same temps.(80f) any way a few months down the line i have the males shedding to adult and the females presubadult..Soon as the males hit adult i started power feeding the females.i think it took about 6 weeks to get the females to adult(im not to sure of dates i would have to have a look at my thread) any way what im trying to say is the males shed to adult 2 sheds infront....3 months on the females have shed to adult and the males are still living and healthy.my males are about 2 months old at present and there still healthy..so from my personal experience theres no need to slow down the males if the nymphs are from the same ooth.

I always thought this was silly..i mean if the males die that fast how can they mate in the wild?


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## pedro92 (Jul 22, 2008)

What should i avoid doing with orchid mantids. What should i be aware of.


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## Rob Byatt (Jul 23, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> I always thought this was silly..i mean if the males die that fast how can they mate in the wild?


This suggests that ALL oothecae hatch at the same time in the wild :lol: 



Chameleonare said:


> What should i avoid doing with orchid mantids. What should i be aware of.


*Don't* spray then twice a day. *Don't* feed them crickets. *Do* listen to the advice I have already given you  

_Hymenopus_ was rare in the UK until 2005. I firmly believe there was one reason nobody was able rear them - EVERYONE assumed they needed massively high humidity so sprayed them 2/3 times a day. I don't mean to sound big-headed, but it took me about 2 years to convince people on the internet/at fairs/on the phone etc. that do NOT need this much water.........and now more people are rearing them.

Now if people don't listen to what I have to say, I'll stop wasting my time writing on here and throw my dummy out of the pram again


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## pedro92 (Jul 23, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


> This suggests that ALL oothecae hatch at the same time in the wild :lol: *Don't* spray then twice a day. *Don't* feed them crickets. *Do* listen to the advice I have already given you
> 
> _Hymenopus_ was rare in the UK until 2005. I firmly believe there was one reason nobody was able rear them - EVERYONE assumed they needed massively high humidity so sprayed them 2/3 times a day. I don't mean to sound big-headed, but it took me about 2 years to convince people on the internet/at fairs/on the phone etc. that do NOT need this much water.........and now more people are rearing them.
> 
> Now if people don't listen to what I have to say, I'll stop wasting my time writing on here and throw my dummy out of the pram again


Thank you. So should i keep the spangum moss on the bottom damp and then along with 1 spray per day.


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## macro junkie (Jul 23, 2008)

Chameleonare said:


> Thank you. So should i keep the spangum moss on the bottom damp and then along with 1 spray per day.


i have damp tissue and mist once - where there biger i mist 2 times a week.when there nympths i mist lightly every 2 days.


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## AikoAiko (Jul 23, 2008)

I spray the young instars twice a day because I live in Colorado. Colorado has an extremely DRY climate. I don't know if you have ever been here, Robb (you live in the UK, right?) but since I have good ventilation in the containers, all the water from misting evaporates in a matter of hours. I mist when I notice the spaghnum moss is drying out and there are no water droplets in the container.

I imagine how often you need to spray depends on how long moisture lingers in your mantis enclosures, so yes, it would make sense not to mist as much if you live in a climate with normal humidity levels.


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## hibiscusmile (Jul 23, 2008)

:blink: Just wondering why u have a dummy in the pram? Or do u mean "throwing the baby away with the bath water"?


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## OGIGA (Jul 23, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


> *Don't* spray then twice a day. *Don't* feed them crickets. *Do* listen to the advice I have already given you


Why not crickets? Yeah, I know that they have a reputation for poisoning mantises, but I want to know why you say this. I used to feed mine crickets and she was just fine. Wait until Rick comes here and testifies about his cricket usage.


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## pedro92 (Jul 27, 2008)

The orchids are doing good. I have lost 1 so far it would not eat thin belly almost thin as paper others are chowwing down on hydeis ATM. They are still L1 but will soon molt hopefully. How long does it take for them to reach adult at the temps ove 82-87F

I cant get the temp to drop to 75F at night it stays around 81-84 at night is this ok.


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## OGIGA (Jul 27, 2008)

Males: Maybe 2 months

Females: Maybe 3-4 months


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## AikoAiko (Jul 28, 2008)

I agree with OGIGA's estimate of 2 months for males and 3-4 months for the females. Mine were L2 when I recieved them mid-June and the two males are one shed away from adult. If they shed in the next two weeks, that would make them a little over two months old.


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## chun (Jul 29, 2008)

OGIGA said:


> Why not crickets? Yeah, I know that they have a reputation for poisoning mantises, but I want to know why you say this. I used to feed mine crickets and she was just fine. Wait until Rick comes here and testifies about his cricket usage.


there is no problem feeding crickets to Hymenopus, but the reputation for poisoning mantids is associated with infected crickets causing diseases and infections which could lead to premature death. These risks can be minimized or eliminated if you breed your own crickets or avoid using them.

I think one breeder suggested that crickets' exoskeleton could cause problems to the fragile mandibles of 'flower mantis' when used as the only feeder. Also another ecologist called Roy/Nrsthestah back in the days suggested the possible effects of Ni (nitrate) poisoning to certain arachnids and mantids, although i have not read any actual scientific or credible references for these claims.


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## pedro92 (Jul 29, 2008)

3 of my 12 orchids have molted to L2. At what stage do you think it is easiest or soonest i can sex them?


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## Rob Byatt (Jul 29, 2008)

chun said:


> there is no problem feeding crickets to Hymenopus, but the reputation for poisoning mantids is associated with infected crickets causing diseases and infections which could lead to premature death. These risks can be minimized or eliminated if you breed your own crickets or avoid using them.


It is better to avoid them all together, it really isn't worth it.



chun said:


> I think one breeder suggested that crickets' exoskeleton could cause problems to the fragile mandibles of 'flower mantis' when used as the only feeder.


Utter rubbish; this person obviously doesn't have much understanding of mantids' mandibles  



chun said:


> Also another ecologist called Roy/Nrsthestah back in the days suggested the possible effects of Ni (nitrate) poisoning to certain arachnids and mantids, although i have not read any actual scientific or credible references for these claims.


Not heard of this one before, it would be interesting to see any articles relating to it.


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## OGIGA (Jul 29, 2008)

chun said:


> there is no problem feeding crickets to Hymenopus, but the reputation for poisoning mantids is associated with infected crickets causing diseases and infections which could lead to premature death. These risks can be minimized or eliminated if you breed your own crickets or avoid using them.


I see. At least I have a reason and not a stupid "Just don't do it." THanks.


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## Rob Byatt (Jul 30, 2008)

OGIGA said:


> I see. At least I have a reason and not a stupid "Just don't do it." THanks.


Is this aimed at me ? Do you have any idea how many times I have typed the reason for not feeding crickets ? :blink: The reason I don't type anymore is because I simply can't e bothered; there are only so many times you can repeat yourself.


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## Christian (Jul 30, 2008)

I have to agree with Rob: we explained many, many times what's the problem with crickets. We won't explain it again. It was never just a "stupid "Just don't do it.""


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## Birdfly (Jul 30, 2008)

Hey Rob, they've moved up to 2nd:


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## pedro92 (Aug 6, 2008)

One of mine have molted to L3 today.

@ Birdfly What type of camera and lense are you using.


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## pedro92 (Aug 6, 2008)

Christian said:


> I have to agree with Rob: we explained many, many times what's the problem with crickets. We won't explain it again. It was never just a "stupid "Just don't do it.""


Yah i agree. Its not hard to order flies and feed those instead


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## Birdfly (Aug 6, 2008)

Chameleonare said:


> One of mine have molted to L3 today. @ Birdfly What type of camera and lense are you using.


 :lol: Chameleonaire its a canon eos 30d with a sigma 105mm lens, it does the job even if i cant some times.


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## idolomantis (Aug 6, 2008)

sweetness.. the l1 looks like a little demon :lol:


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## darkspeed (Aug 6, 2008)

Beautiful shots Birdfly!


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## The_Asa (Aug 7, 2008)

Very nice "portraits"  !


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