# Does inbreeding matter for insects and mantids?



## Mike (May 18, 2006)

I wanted to know if it matterd if u kept breeding the same line of insects ? After a while would you need to introduce new genes in there or it doesnt matter? 0_O? Does this also apply for leaf insects and stick insects?


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## Sexi-lexi (May 18, 2006)

as far as my knowledge takes me inbreeding becomes less and less of a problem the fewer genes an organism posses, so for a human inbreeding occurs quickly whereas for reptiles like cresties it takes about 50 generations (or so im told) so for insects i would assume that inbreeding would become less of a problem in respect to genetic mutation. Saying this however mantids that are nominally brothers and sisters tend to produce very similar pheromonal signatures making them less likely to mate and more likely to chew eat other... someone please correct me if im wrong...


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## Christian (May 18, 2006)

Hi.

Well, it isn't that easy...

The similarity of pheromones seems to be one important reason for vanishing stocks. Real degenerations need several to multiple generations to break through. However, every stock is inbred to some extent. The problems arise only when you're breeding with just one of two pairs in every generation. Then you work almost with "clones" (that should mean a low allele diversity). In order to avoid problems, one should breed with at least 6 to 12 pairs in every generation.

Regards,

Christian


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## bruty2fruity (May 19, 2006)

is it possible to cross breed mantids?


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## yen_saw (May 19, 2006)

Is rare but possible, and the offsprings will also be sterile like mule.


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## bruty2fruity (May 19, 2006)

yeah but theyd be massive due to lack of protein needed to mate. and live slightly longer


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## Christian (May 19, 2006)

Hi.

No successful hybridisation is known to date. There was once a degenerated hybrid between _Pseudocreobotra ocellata_ x _P. wahlbergii_. Statements about every kinds of hybrid are still highly hypothetical, as long as almost noones were observed yet.

Regards,

Christian


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## Lukony (May 19, 2006)

Once I make some more money, I am going to just concentrate on crossbreeding.


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## Peekaboo (May 19, 2006)

Is cross breeding really a good idea though? Chances are, from the comments I have seen, that breeding wouldn't provide successful offspring, but suppose you were successful?

So long as you kept the hybrids to yourself it wouldn't be so bad. But would others be as responsible as you? I'm somewhat worried about hobbyist stocks losing pure breeds, due to irresponsible hobbyists selling hybrids as something other than a hybrid.


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## Lukony (May 19, 2006)

That is a good point, I would probably have to find a new breed that would have definant markings. Atleast that way no one can pass them off.


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## bruty2fruity (May 20, 2006)

imagine it though, having the characteristics of two sets of mantids in one...it could be really beautiful or turn out like that guy in the film the fly after a teleport accident


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## Mike (May 20, 2006)

I think it could be done, but to a point. Lets say interbreeding flower mantids together i would think u could, but not interbreeding a flower to lets say a dead leaf or a popa spurca or something like that?


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## bruty2fruity (May 20, 2006)

yeah course. similar varieties and sizes n all that. nothing crazy


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