# Roaches



## The_Asa (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm getting ready to start my roach colony. This is my first time trying to breed or use roaches so any advice would be appreciated, especially suggestions in regards to the species I should use. I'd like ones that would climb and that can't breed in the home. Thanks in advance.


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## idolomantis (Aug 31, 2008)

lobster, dubia are good. turkish roaches are wuite big.

even with minimum care those thing breeds like heck.


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## The_Asa (Aug 31, 2008)

About how many lobster roaches do you think could fit into a 12 gallon container?


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## SteelSmith04 (Oct 9, 2008)

What size do these roaches grow to? how big are they when they should be fed to the mantids? i have mostly chinese mantids. Thanks.

also where can i pick some of these roaches up in ohio?


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## Birdfly (Oct 9, 2008)

Dubia are the biggest, females are about 4cm.

Lobsters next at about 3 cm.

Turkistans are about the 2.5 to 3 cm but a lot lighter built.

Feed them as you would a cricket, a sensible size for your mantis to dispatch and eat safely.

An adult female _T sinensis_ could manage an adult dubia roach if v hungry but safer to give more smaller ones


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## sidewinder (Oct 9, 2008)

Birdfly,

If an adult female _Tenodera sinensis_ can't easily handle an adult _Blaptica dubia_, there is something wrong with the adult female _T. sinensis_.

S-


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## etb99 (Oct 10, 2008)

I breed dubia's and deathshead for my lizards. I think dubia's would be best for mantids. My adult D.desiccata can eat adult male dubia's.

I didn't get lobster roaches because I heard they can infest houses and they do climb glass (so more likely to escape). Not sure what people mean by turkish roaches? Blatta lateralis? I haven't had those. I'd first like to be sure they cannot infest the house. There is another roach, Shelfordella tartara, that has become very popular, but has by now been shown to be able to infest houses and could become a serious pest species.

I would stick to dubia's, breed like mad in a very simple setup and I have never heard of them reproducing in the house.


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## Birdfly (Oct 10, 2008)

sidewinder said:


> Birdfly,If an adult female _Tenodera sinensis_ can't easily handle an adult _Blaptica dubia_, there is something wrong with the adult female _T. sinensis_.
> 
> S-


[SIZE=36pt]?[/SIZE] did i say they couldnt...


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## Rob Byatt (Oct 10, 2008)

Birdfly said:


> [SIZE=36pt]?[/SIZE] did i say they couldnt...


I think he just likes to nit pick mate


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## sidewinder (Oct 10, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


> I think he just likes to nit pick mate


This has nothing to do with nit picking.

Birdfly wrote:

"An adult female T sinensis could manage an adult dubia roach if v hungry but safer to give more smaller ones."

That implies that an adult female _Tenodera sinensis_ might not be able to safely manage an adult _Blaptica dubia_. Is that not what you meant to imply?

Years ago I used to feed adult _B. dubia_ to sub adult _T. sinensis_ with no issues. What is the safety factor?

S-


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## Birdfly (Oct 10, 2008)

If full/ half full it might not want it or it might waste 2/3 of it ??

Decades ago, when i was a kid i used to feed adult_B craniferer_ to adult _D dessicata_ females, although the dead leaf can kill &amp; eat it, if it hasnt got a good perch the cockroach can and did drag it all around the viv, This could cause the mantid damage so i erred on the safe side. If it saves some ones mantis unnessasary damage then all well and good.

You dont have to feed your mantids one huge bulky food item, even though we all know mantids can deal with prey larger than them selves. Predators will look for the largest food items with the least energy expendature but more often than not come across many smaller items in the hunt.

Lions eat buffalo but buffalo can still kill/injure lions.


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## sidewinder (Oct 10, 2008)

Birdfly,

There is a bigger risk feeding an adult female _Tenodera sinensis_ grasshopers and locust than adult _Blaptica dubia_. I don't get it. _B. dubia_ are 1.5" long and are relatively docile, even when being eaten alive. I'd rather feed adult _B. dubia_ than house crickets.

S-


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## Birdfly (Oct 10, 2008)

I've made my reasons clear enough, i'm not going to be drawn into it any more.

Edit: you have small ###### roaches as mine are much bigger..


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## Rob Byatt (Oct 10, 2008)

This is silly. Birdfly DID NOT say _T. sinensis_ cannot tackle the adult roach.

Is black white ?   



sidewinder said:


> Years ago I used to feed adult _B. dubia_ to sub adult _T. sinensis_ with no issues. What is the safety factor?


Was this in high school as well ?


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## sidewinder (Oct 10, 2008)

Rob,

This *is* silly. Adult _Blaptica dubia_ are a perfectly safe food for an adult female _Tenodera sinensis_.

Suggesting otherwise *is* silly.

S-


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## Birdfly (Oct 10, 2008)

My personel preferances may seem silly to you, and i dont expect you to understand even though i have made it clear, you seem more interested in seeing how big an insect a mantid can capture and kill (not to mention small discrepancies in members posts and playing on them) where as i mostly prefer to just keep mantids cause i like them, this is why i feed and recommend feeding them smaller food items and because of what i mentioned in post no 11.

Why feed them a large roach, risking potential eye damage or what ever, when 3 smaller ones will do. Does that seem silly to you ? I expect it still does but when you have as many years mantid keeping as i have you might have a different perspective on it.

Keep up the high school studies, you'll get there in the end


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## sidewinder (Oct 10, 2008)

Birdfly,

No, what is silly is arguing that _Blaptica dubia_ are not good feeder insects for larger mantids and that feeding adult _B. dubia_ to adult female _Tenodera sinensis_ is fraught with danger for the mantid. I don't care one bit what your feed your mantids. That's up to you. If you wanted to feed only _Calliphora sp._, that would be no skin off my nose.

I have no interest in seeing how big an insect a mantid can capture and kill. You Brits seem to think that is all we care about over here in the Colonies. The only reason I commented on your post is because what you said made little sense to me. As much sense to me as saying a 5th instar _Hierodula membranacea_ couldn't safely handle a _Calliphora sp._.

S-


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## etb99 (Oct 10, 2008)

Birdfly, don't bother, this guy prefers to argue in stead of just to listen and learn  . Extremely tiring, so best just ignored. I see your point, despite just having started with mantids  Even from my limited experience I prefer smaller prey that is eaten completely to large prey that is often discarded half eaten.


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## Birdfly (Oct 10, 2008)

*No, what is silly is arguing that *_Blaptica dubia_ *are not good feeder insects for larger mantids and that feeding adult* _B. dubia_ *to adult female* _Tenodera sinensis_ *is fraught with danger for the mantid.*

Who said they are not good feeders for larger mantids ? i use them loads, but there is a time and a place when larger prey items are not acceptable (some thing some one new to mantids might not understand)

Like i said before with some years mantid breeding and husbandry experience you might come to understand this :lol: your just looking for an argument were there is none, again, like you do.

*Fraught with danger.*

Now you are trying to put words in my mouth :lol: Those are your words, not mine.

*I don't care one bit what your feed your mantids. That's up to you.*

Well you obviously do care or why would you be arguing with me? and yes it is up to me just the same as my opinion is.

*If you wanted to feed only Calliphora sp., that would be no skin off my nose.*

Irrelavent! try to stick to the point

*I have no interest in seeing how big an insect a mantid can capture and kill. You Brits seem to think that is all we care about over here in the Colonies.*

Paranoia :blink: 

I said "you" get your facts right and you do make it seem that way to me and a few others it seems on other threads.

*The only reason I commented on your post is because what you said made little sense to me.*

I understand that now, i'll try to explain in greater detail for you from now on.

*As much sense to me as saying a 5th instar Hierodula membranacea couldn't safely handle a* _Calliphora sp._.

Now why would you say that? flies are absolutely no threat what so ever to a mantis, oh unless one knocked a moulting mantis to the floor, so even a fly can be a threat to a mantis in the wrong circumstances wouldn't you agree?


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## The_Asa (Oct 10, 2008)

Geez you guys...does it matter that much to any of you??


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## Birdfly (Oct 10, 2008)

Thanks Etb, i know, but you try  and sorry Asa for going so far of topic.

Back on topic:

I believe these might be useful for you in helping find your perfect feeder roach:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bandung/roaches/dubiacare.html

http://www.nyworms.com/lobsroachcare.htm

http://www.nyworms.com/turkistancare.htm


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## The_Asa (Oct 10, 2008)

Thanks


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## sidewinder (Oct 10, 2008)

Birdfly,

This is out of control!

I wholeheartedly agree that there is a time and a place when larger prey items are not acceptable. For example, I would not feed an adult _Blaptica dubia_ to a _Pseudocreobotra wahlbergii_. I just don't see a problem feeding adult _Blaptica dubia_ to adult female _Tenodera sinensis_. That's all I am saying here. An adult house cricket is more of a danger to an adult female _T. sinensis_.

And no, I really don't care what you feed your mantids. That's all up to you. My whole point is that is that your suggestion to someone else that an adult _B. dubia_ was a risk to an adult female _T. sinensis_ is what I questioned. There are lots of people out there feeding adult _B. dubia_ to mantids less capable than an adult female _T. sinensis_. _B. dubia_ is a relatively harmless roach to invertebrates of appropriate size.

I would never leave live food of any type in with a mantis that was about to molt or that was molting.

S-


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## idolomantis (Oct 10, 2008)

ASA:

you have wide arms and shields right?

i would say lobster roaches.

but:

there are some american roach spieces, which grow 3 cm and breed harder than any other sp.

going to look up their names for ya  

EDIT: one of em is _euryotis floridiana_

get them here


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## The_Asa (Oct 11, 2008)

Thanks again, idolo. I was gonna spring for the lobsters, because of there size and because they can climb the insides of the enclosure instead of burrowing down into the substrate.


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## Ian (Oct 12, 2008)

Why do so many threads these days turn into some kind of argument?


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