# New Setup



## DefyTheNorms (Jan 22, 2018)

Mantisville in progress... Still in need of another larger terrarium, bottom storage, and under shelf lighting.


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## Bathory (Jan 22, 2018)

Ohhh nice! I wanna get a shelf going on, right now all my mantids are spread out on and around my desk in my bedroom lol


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## DefyTheNorms (Jan 22, 2018)

Bathory said:


> Ohhh nice! I wanna get a shelf going on, right now all my mantids are spread out on and around my desk in my bedroom lol


That's the problem I had... 2 on the kitchen counter, 1 on the table, 2 on the entrance console, empty tanks on the floor, feeders hidden here and there lol


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## CosbyArt (Jan 22, 2018)

@DefyTheNorms Looks like your about to fill that shelving unit already.  I currently have four myself, two large units for pets and two smaller ones for feeders. One is exclusively for fruit flies, and I keep it as far away as I can from anything else in case of mites.

For lighting I use single 24" fluorescent light fixtures ($12-$15 locally for the bulb and fixture together), I have at least half a dozen right now. They are only about 3" tall and easily attach to the bottom of wire/metal shelves with quick/zip ties. I use "grow" aka "day" bulbs for color corrected lighting for photos, and plants like spider plants/lily (Chlorophytum comosum) does well with them as there is no sunlight where the shelves are.

A alternative lighting I've seen is the LED strip lights, usually on reptile setups, but look good too.

For storage nothing beats two plastic storage tubs on the bottom shelf, with smaller ones like the plastic "shoe boxes" ($1 each locally) inside for storage. To keep a clean look use a solid color (opaque) tubs to keep the contents hidden.


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## Teamonger (Jan 23, 2018)

Very sweet setup! Terrariums always look so posh especially when you manage to collect a fair number of them


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## DefyTheNorms (Jan 23, 2018)

@Teamonger Thank you! I really like the look of terrariums.


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## DefyTheNorms (Jan 23, 2018)

CosbyArt said:


> @DefyTheNorms Looks like your about to fill that shelving unit already.  I currently have four myself, two large units for pets and two smaller ones for feeders. One is exclusively for fruit flies, and I keep it as far away as I can from anything else in case of mites.
> 
> For lighting I use single 24" fluorescent light fixtures ($12-$15 locally for the bulb and fixture together), I have at least half a dozen right now. They are only about 3" tall and easily attach to the bottom of wire/metal shelves with quick/zip ties. I use "grow" aka "day" bulbs for color corrected lighting for photos, and plants like spider plants/lily (Chlorophytum comosum) does well with them as there is no sunlight where the shelves are.
> 
> ...


I've told myself that this shelf is my MAX - lets see if I stick to that limit   

I just order a 2nd large terrarium. I plan to use those for larger mantis species. I'd also like to eventually use one to keep a group of ghosts. I almost ordered a few, but I'm nervous about housing mantids together; even the communal species.

For lights I think I'm going with LED strips since I don't plan to plant the terrariums and they do get some natural light from the nearby window. I'd love to plant them but I'm terrible at keeping plants alive lol.  I'm off today to try to find some plastic storage containers. I'm so excited about my new project it makes me want to get a few more mantids! LOL


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## CosbyArt (Jan 24, 2018)

DefyTheNorms said:


> I've told myself that this shelf is my MAX - lets see if I stick to that limit
> 
> I just order a 2nd large terrarium. I plan to use those for larger mantis species. I'd also like to eventually use one to keep a group of ghosts. I almost ordered a few, but I'm nervous about housing mantids together; even the communal species.
> 
> For lights I think I'm going with LED strips since I don't plan to plant the terrariums and they do get some natural light from the nearby window. I'd love to plant them but I'm terrible at keeping plants alive lol.  I'm off today to try to find some plastic storage containers. I'm so excited about my new project it makes me want to get a few more mantids! LOL


Best of luck sticking to one shelf.  

I don't blame you, it seems most who keep "communal" species housed together have a instance of cannibalism sooner or later. Although depending on your budget and husbandry skill besides the typically Ghosts (Phyllocrania paradoxa), a couple great communal species are the Wandering Violin mantis (Gongylus gongylodes) and Giant African Stick mantis (Heterochaeta sp.).

Nice, but be careful or your outgrow your one shelving unit before you get it done.  One major advantage of the LED strips is the ability to cut them to length (good reference with many tutorials and a video, even if they are pushing their product, the information relates to other brands too). Or if your into electronics you could get fancy with a Arduino and add all sorts of options.

Be sure to take some photos when you get your lighting done.


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## DefyTheNorms (Jan 24, 2018)

CosbyArt said:


> Best of luck sticking to one shelf.
> 
> I don't blame you, it seems most who keep "communal" species housed together have a instance of cannibalism sooner or later. Although depending on your budget and husbandry skill besides the typically Ghosts (Phyllocrania paradoxa), a couple great communal species are the Wandering Violin mantis (Gongylus gongylodes) and Giant African Stick mantis (Heterochaeta sp.).
> 
> ...


LOL thanks   

I went with LED!  I think Arduino is over my head, but I went all fancy with the option to change light color via a remote control... That's as electronic as I get LOL

The lights are supposed be here tomorrow. I'll definitely post photos when I get it set up!


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## DefyTheNorms (Jan 26, 2018)

So now it looks like I may  have to cover the right side of each terrarium with a background of some sort to block view between mantids. Neighbors just keep having stare-offs that last hours! LOL ... Or maybe they think the other if food.  Is this stressful for them, or should I cover one side with coconut husk mat or something?


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## CosbyArt (Jan 26, 2018)

DefyTheNorms said:


> So now it looks like I may  have to cover the right side of each terrarium with a background of some sort to block view between mantids. Neighbors just keep having stare-offs that last hours! LOL ... Or maybe they think the other if food.  Is this stressful for them, or should I cover one side with coconut husk mat or something?


A common problem to be sure for older nymphs and especially adults.  

I've used various things as a blinds between habitats, my favorite being a thick aquarium background showing plants. The only thing you want to ensure is that the blind material does not show a mantids outline/shadow through it - you need a thick and opaque material. For example printer paper does not work even in a pinch. Even though they can not see each other through it clearly, they can however easily see shadows of one another and has the same results as nothing at all.

For some mantid individuals it is very stressful to point they eat very little or not at all, unable to sleep or relax, it keeps them a in fight or flight response, and makes them completely obsessed with watching to ensure they are not attacked. Due to the stress and not properly eating it can lead to illness and even death.


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## DefyTheNorms (Jan 26, 2018)

CosbyArt said:


> A common problem to be sure for older nymphs and especially adults.
> 
> I've used various things as a blinds between habitats, my favorite being a thick aquarium background showing plants. The only thing you want to ensure is that the blind material does not show a mantids outline/shadow through it - you need a thick and opaque material. For example printer paper does not work even in a pinch. Even though they can not see each other through it clearly, they can however easily see shadows of one another and has the same results as nothing at all.
> 
> For some mantid individuals it is very stressful to point they eat very little or not at all, unable to sleep or relax, it keeps them a in fight or flight response, and makes them completely obsessed with watching to ensure they are not attacked. Due to the stress and not properly eating it can lead to illness and even death.


Ok! Exactly what I was concerned about. I have cardboard between each the terrariums at the moment, but I"m going to order some thin styrofoam to make a side background, or even hot glue some coconut fiber mat to the side. The bonus with that is it will also give them a nice climbing surface as well.


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## cwebster (Jan 26, 2018)

Great setup. We always end up with five or six mesh mantis mantis mansion all over our bathroom counters. Not as elegant as your setup.


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## DefyTheNorms (Jan 27, 2018)

cwebster said:


> Great setup. We always end up with five or six mesh mantis mantis mansion all over our bathroom counters. Not as elegant as your setup.


Haha... I was thinking about mesh, but the cats would mess with them so we decided glass was safer for us


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## DefyTheNorms (Jan 27, 2018)

Pretty much finished! Got color change/dimmable LED lights, and bottom storage. I'm pretty pleased. Now I just need to work on the terrariums themselves.


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## CosbyArt (Jan 27, 2018)

@DefyTheNorms Very nice! The LED lighting really keeps it clean looking and offers plenty of light in the habitats.  

If you have them set on a light timer you'd be all set. In that regard I find 14 hours of light (late spring/summer) optimum, and is the recommended time in many scientific articles for best results in breeding/egg laying in various species (particularly the cricket ones I have been reading lately).


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## DefyTheNorms (Jan 27, 2018)

CosbyArt said:


> @DefyTheNorms Very nice! The LED lighting really keeps it clean looking and offers plenty of light in the habitats.
> 
> If you have them set on a light timer you'd be all set. In that regard I find 14 hours of light (late spring/summer) optimum, and is the recommended time in many scientific articles for best results in breeding/egg laying in various species (particularly the cricket ones I have been reading lately).


Thanks!   I was wondering how long the would be best left on. Right now the LEDS are on about 12 hours, but they still get light from the lamp for another 2-3 hours, depending how late I stay up. I'm not sure why I got color change LEDS LOL. I don't like any of the other colors on the mantids expect the orange on it's dimmest setting. It's a beautiful amber color, and reminds me of moonlight for some reason. I've been tempted to leave it on at night (since it's the only time I could use it), but I'm worried it would still be too bright for them since I assume they should have darkness at some point. I don't even turn the white LED lights to their max because the mantids are facing them when they hang from the screen and I worry about their eyes from looking into the lights all day lol


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## CosbyArt (Jan 28, 2018)

@DefyTheNorms It sounds like you have a proper amount of lighting as the lamp lighting would simulate the dimming light at sunset with the LEDs switched off. I know some keepers, especially aquatic keepers, buy very expensive lighting kits to do sunrise/set and phases of the moon even.  

I use a very dim 0.1 watt LED round nightlight (orange in color, I bought them in a three-pack years ago branded Intermatic) for simulated moonlight on my shelves. I simply leave it on 24hours (for 3 1/2 years now), and when the timer turns off the other lights it becomes visible. I've seen my various pets use the low light to capture prey (mantids, arachnids, etc), but otherwise are unaffected by it.

I wish light meters were affordable then I could tell you what mine outputs, and to have a reference for others to check for their own. About all I can tell you is that it takes my eyes several minutes to adjust with all lights off in the area in order to see a little light in the habitats - I would say it outputs the amount of light from a half-moon overhead on a clear sky in a area away from light pollution. I am a amateur stargazer, but it is the only way to give a example of the light amount.


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## DefyTheNorms (Jan 28, 2018)

CosbyArt said:


> I would say it outputs the amount of light from a half-moon overhead on a clear sky in a area away from light pollution. I am a amateur stargazer, but it is the only way to give a example of the light amount.


That's what I would say mine is similar to.  I'm going to go ahead and try leaving the dim orange light on at night


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## CosbyArt (Jan 29, 2018)

DefyTheNorms said:


> That's what I would say mine is similar to.  I'm going to go ahead and try leaving the dim orange light on at night


Great, try it out and see if any of their behavior changes with it on versus off; however, if it is that dim it should be just fine.


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## DefyTheNorms (Jan 29, 2018)

So far so good with the light... I think. 

Question... Is it normal for mantids to get antsy/restless. Sometimes I'll have one that gets really active and just keeps crawling round the top of their enclosure, looking for a way out. It happens especially with my first 2 - Budwing and Malaysian shield. They used to do it around the rim of their cups, but now they know the front door of the terrarium opens and that's mostly where they try to test for an opening, tho they do check the circumference. I feel bad for them. Reason I mentioned is it is happening at night now too, so I'm thinking maybe the orange light is too bright after all. I'm  not sure if they are normally that active at night.


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## CosbyArt (Jan 29, 2018)

DefyTheNorms said:


> So far so good with the light... I think.
> 
> Question... Is it normal for mantids to get antsy/restless. Sometimes I'll have one that gets really active and just keeps crawling round the top of their enclosure, looking for a way out. It happens especially with my first 2 - Budwing and Malaysian shield. They used to do it around the rim of their cups, but now they know the front door of the terrarium opens and that's mostly where they try to test for an opening, tho they do check the circumference. I feel bad for them. Reason I mentioned is it is happening at night now too, so I'm thinking maybe the orange light is too bright after all. I'm  not sure if they are normally that active at night.


Some mantids are like that especially wild caught individuals that are new to habitats, they usually tend to stop the behavior after a few days to a week. Some individuals if handled a lot will get to the point they would rather be loose too though.

As your not sure if it is their normal behavior or not I would suggest leaving the light off tomorrow, and check on them a few times with a flashlight and see if they are still doing it. Also it should happen during the daylight hours some as well, if it is their normal behavior. Keep an eye on them and see what you notice.


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## DefyTheNorms (Jan 29, 2018)

CosbyArt said:


> Some mantids are like that especially wild caught individuals that are new to habitats, they usually tend to stop the behavior after a few days to a week. Some individuals if handled a lot will get to the point they would rather be loose too though.
> 
> As your not sure if it is their normal behavior or not I would suggest leaving the light off tomorrow, and check on them a few times with a flashlight and see if they are still doing it. Also it should happen during the daylight hours some as well, if it is their normal behavior. Keep an eye on them and see what you notice.


Yeah, now that you mentioned it, the 2 that do it the most often are the 2 that I handle the most, since they are the calmest. So I guess they just want to come out. It's funny because sometimes I'll open the door for them and they will immediately come out, perch on my hand and start cleaning their feet   .

I'll def turn the "night light" off and check tonight.


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## CosbyArt (Jan 29, 2018)

DefyTheNorms said:


> Yeah, now that you mentioned it, the 2 that do it the most often are the 2 that I handle the most, since they are the calmest. So I guess they just want to come out. It's funny because sometimes I'll open the door for them and they will immediately come out, perch on my hand and start cleaning their feet   .
> 
> I'll def turn the "night light" off and check tonight.


So you do have a couple spoiled babies then. :lol: Much like human babies crying and reaching out to be held, some mantids will search for a exit until they get exhausted or get let out. It is one of the "trained"/learned behaviors that can be found in pet mantids.

Cleaning is just a sign they are content, and they can be worse than cats with their constant grooming.  

Best of luck then. Likely they will not do it tonight, but will for a few days of nightlight use as they can now see at night. Just like a parent you will likely have to let them sit there for a few nights "crying to be held" until they calm down.


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## DefyTheNorms (Jan 29, 2018)

CosbyArt said:


> Just like a parent you will likely have to let them sit there for a few nights "crying to be held" until they calm down.


 :lol:


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