# Ocellata breeding



## doomgerbs (Jul 31, 2008)

I know there are topics but I'm having trouble finding them so any links or advice please.

I have 3 females getting nice and chubby now and 2 young males on loan. So far we've had to rescue one male 3 times from my oldest female (who ate my original male). Tried him and the other male with the other two females and they've just ignored them. All are very well fed!!


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## mrblue (Jul 31, 2008)

if she keeps trying to snatch a male maybe she is not well fed enough? just an idea. here are a few links you may find useful:

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9023

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=10247

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9973 (re: pwahlbergii but the same things apply)

good luck.


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## doomgerbs (Jul 31, 2008)

thanks hun, that's what I needed  

Wish me luck!!


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## hibiscusmile (Jul 31, 2008)

Sometimes this species is hard to breed. I wait until she has laid the first ooth sometimes and then try it after she is well fed. Dosent always work


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## jplelito (Jul 31, 2008)

In my care, this species prefers to pair up in the afternoon/evening. It is important to let them see each other becuase arm-waving often occurs when they focus on one another, especially on the part of the female. The male will often remain immobile until he can see that she is aware of him by this arm-waving. It doesn't always occur though. Eventually he will try to mount - sometimes this occurs overnight.

Even if they pair up they will not actually mate until after lights out - the male will just wait on the female's back. I use black colored paper in the bottom of the cage, because then I can see the ejected spermatophore the next morning (it will be hard to find on white towels) as the proof of mating - usually the male will separate from the female before I come to check on them.

Even then, the oothecae seem to be infertile about half the time or more, even to females mated twice. *shrug*

As Rebecca says, letting her lay an ooth first can't hurt - this does seem to up the chances provided she is well-fed again to recover from laying. Usually two-four days of continuous feeding (to the point where she leaves live prey in the cage and is stuffed full) will get her ready. And keep a couple of flies in the container with them while they mate - but not more than 2-3, this will freak the male out.

I hope that helps!

~Jon


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## darkspeed (Jul 31, 2008)

My female was mated... I think. I put them together twice for 24 hours and both times he spent the whole night on her back. She has now laid 5 ooths, and is probably going to lay more. How do I know if they are infertile, and how long do they take to hatch if they are fertile.


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## mrblue (Jul 31, 2008)

at average temps of around 30C, around 30-35 days. i have never experienced what jplelito said about oothecae being infertile "about half the time or more" with this or any other species. there is no way to tell with this species that i know of, the only surefire way is when the first one laid hatches then you know the mating was a success and that the rest will hatch out fine too. however infertile oothecae tend to be smaller and sometimes mis-shapen. i have also found they tend to be laid less frequently than if the female was fertile, though another way of looking at it may be that i have fed females less when i know they are not mated, hence the infrequence of oothecae laid.

you say both times he spent the whole night on her back, does this mean when you went to sleep he was on her back and when you woke up he was still on her back? if so, i reckon there was no mating, as everytime i have mated this species, the male will get off after mating and move away, i have never seen them mate and then stay on the females back. however just because i have not experienced it doesnt mean it never happens of course! i do remember you posted a photo of the first laid oothecae after the "mating" and it was a little on the small side, have the others been any bigger?


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## darkspeed (Aug 2, 2008)

Here is a shot of four out of five of them... #5 is still in the enclosure with momma.


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## darkspeed (Aug 12, 2008)

WOOT and DOUBLE WOOT!!!

Despite the small size and questionable mating a little baby PO nymph magically appeared in the ooth container, so I assume they are fertile. :lol: He has already eaten a FF and now he is just wandering around waiting for his brothers and sisters to come out and play.


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## idolomantis (Aug 12, 2008)

lol i hope for him that he,ll make. qhwn the other ones hatch lol

--only the strongest will survive--


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## mrblue (Aug 12, 2008)

congratulations! i have not had experience with this species hatching out periodically, but still i hope you get some more from that ootheca (and the others!), let us know if you do.


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## Meiji (Aug 13, 2008)

mrblue said:


> congratulations! i have not had experience with this species hatching out periodically, but still i hope you get some more from that ootheca (and the others!), let us know if you do.


Some oooths (not necessarily from this species) are capable of hatching out nymphs a year later. This, along with parthenogensis, is an area of mantis studies that needs more research.


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## darkspeed (Aug 13, 2008)

Well there is still just one.  But he is happy.  

What are the chances of her first ooth only having one egg in it??


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## mrblue (Aug 13, 2008)

it did look pretty small for a first ooth like i said before...  

how old was she as adult when you mated her? what were you/have you been feeding her? the mother of the generation i have now was about 6 months as adult when i mated her, and had already layed quite a few oothecae. she laid 4 after mating and before dying. the first hatched five nymphs, the second hatched 5 nymphs, the other two were imperfect/mishapen and tiny and didnt hatch.

so what are the chances? i dont know but the first ooth is not necessarily the one with the largest hatch rate, theres hope yet.

EDIT: not that size of ooth = hatch rate or anything.


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## darkspeed (Aug 17, 2008)

Well after carefull examination I found that it wasnt her first ooth that hatched out the lonely boy, but rather her third. Her first has yet to hatch out. that makes ssense, because she was mated, and then she laid two ootheca, and then one of my males died, and in a panic I mated her again with my other male before he died as well. Apparently the second mating was successfull. Furthermore, the third ooth, which had a tiny hole in it after the first emerged, hatched out another 15 this morning. Now I got two more in that container that she laid afterwards, as well as one in her container with her that she laid yesterday, and one still on a flower that is now in the inclosure with my adult female orchid. I guess I better get them out before they start popping out breakfast like a toaster.


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