# What To Do After Mantids Have Mated



## MantidBro (Aug 29, 2015)

Figured I'd make a thread about this, as a member here brought to my attention that there's not much information on it.

After the mantids have mated, keep the female well-fed. This will help her lay a bigger ootheca, and the bigger the ootheca, the more nymphs there will be. Don't over-feed her, just give her enough so that she's looking fat, but not like she will explode. It will take a couple weeks for a Tenodera to lay the ootheca, though other species can take up to a month. She will lay it right in the sunlight, or under the heat lamp if she is in an enclosure. Before laying the ootheca, she may become frantic, and be crawling around a lot. She is just looking for a good spot to lay the ootheca. Once laid it should take about 6 weeks to hatch. Treat the ootheca the same way you'd treat the mantid. Give it sunlight during the day, darkness during the night, and mist it once or more times a day.


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## Deacon (Sep 15, 2015)

My T. sinensis mated five days ago. Since then, she has oozed a few droplets of stuff that looks like very pale green, clear rubber cement. Is this spermatophore? She's had this droplet all day. It is coming from the area between the cerci, but on top the end of the abdomen. I was very only inches from them during the mating (I wanted him to have his head afterwards) and this seems to be where the male atttached. Is this oozing normal? I have looked all over for a diagram that is female specific about the"parts" at the tip of the abdomen, to no avail so I'm at a loss. I raised her from an ootheca and purchased him as an L5. It's a miracle they made it to adulthood but I'm learning. Any ideas about this substance coming out of her?


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## MantidBro (Sep 15, 2015)

Deacon said:


> My T. sinensis mated five days ago. Since then, she has oozed a few droplets of stuff that looks like very pale green, clear rubber cement. Is this spermatophore? She's had this droplet all day. It is coming from the area between the cerci, but on top the end of the abdomen. I was very only inches from them during the mating (I wanted him to have his head afterwards) and this seems to be where the male atttached. Is this oozing normal? I have looked all over for a diagram that is female specific about the"parts" at the tip of the abdomen, to no avail so I'm at a loss. I raised her from an ootheca and purchased him as an L5. It's a miracle they made it to adulthood but I'm learning. Any ideas about this substance coming out of her?


Ive honestly never witnessed any ooze coming out of the female after mating, but i did once read about males who left a string of seminal fluid once removing from the female and it may just be that. My only other thought is that she may have an injury and that is blood. Mantid blood is green for a lot of species.


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## Deacon (Sep 16, 2015)

Thank you for replying. I hope it's not blood. Three days ago, I actually removed the first droplet that appeared and it was sort of sticky. I was afraid that whatever it was would harden and she would be blocked. Because she has continued a slow ooze, I have left it alone but the drop has doubled in size since last night. And, she ignored her moths last night!

Just to clarify: Frass comes out the very tip of the abdomen from under that tail-like flap, right? And her female part is on top the last segment between the cerci? The latter is where this glob is growing.

The pair are back in their corners (own cages) staring at each other again, but there will not be another mating as he is now 9 1/2 weeks old and I want him to die with his head intact. These are my first mantids and after reading the sp. care sheet last night, I don't know how they survived to adulthood considering my ignorance. I am so nervous for her!


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## Deacon (Sep 27, 2015)

Now that I've got her body parts identified correctly, and know that the greenish blob is her prolapsed anus (thanks to all of you for educating me), I'm wondering about her laying an ootheca. Do all female mantids lay an ooth, whether they have mated or not? She was mated 16 days ago, but with her assumingly aching anus in the mix, will she even want to lay an ooth or will Mother Nature force her to do it? I understand the cerci come in to play (whipping up the ooth matter) and they are right next to the prolapsed anus.

Could she just refuse to lay an ooth under the circumstances? She's crabby and not eating as much at a time when I thought she should be ravenous...


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## MantidBro (Sep 27, 2015)

Deacon said:


> Thank you for replying. I hope it's not blood. Three days ago, I actually removed the first droplet that appeared and it was sort of sticky. I was afraid that whatever it was would harden and she would be blocked. Because she has continued a slow ooze, I have left it alone but the drop has doubled in size since last night. And, she ignored her moths last night!
> 
> Just to clarify: Frass comes out the very tip of the abdomen from under that tail-like flap, right? And her female part is on top the last segment between the cerci? The latter is where this glob is growing.
> 
> The pair are back in their corners (own cages) staring at each other again, but there will not be another mating as he is now 9 1/2 weeks old and I want him to die with his head intact. These are my first mantids and after reading the sp. care sheet last night, I don't know how they survived to adulthood considering my ignorance. I am so nervous for her!


Are you able to post a photo at all?


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## MantidBro (Sep 27, 2015)

Deacon said:


> Now that I've got her body parts identified correctly, and know that the greenish blob is her prolapsed anus (thanks to all of you for educating me), I'm wondering about her laying an ootheca. Do all female mantids lay an ooth, whether they have mated or not? She was mated 16 days ago, but with her assumingly aching anus in the mix, will she even want to lay an ooth or will Mother Nature force her to do it? I understand the cerci come in to play (whipping up the ooth matter) and they are right next to the prolapsed anus.
> 
> Could she just refuse to lay an ooth under the circumstances? She's crabby and not eating as much at a time when I thought she should be ravenous...


Ive had mantids with prolapsed anuses before. With the first one, it never hewled, but she lived around 9 months none the less. The second time, it ended up going back in on its own. I think its related to eating too much. I would think she will stay lay an ootheca. And yes they do lay infertile oothecae if they haven't mated. LAME and I came to the realization that our females would become crabby before laying an ootheca. Maybe she is just not hungry. Does she look fat?


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## Deacon (Sep 28, 2015)

There is a photo of her abdomen a few topics down from this one, titled "Help what is my mated girl oozing?" It's because of the educated souls on this forum that I now know it is her anus. It seems slightly smaller now and "dryer" looking. She is able to pass frass.

Not sure how fat is too fat as she is my first mantid. I've looked through the photos on the forum but every specie is so different.. Her abdomen looks like a washboard and she is getting clumsy enough to have fallen. My mistake, as she climbed 3' up the wall a few days ago while I was cleaning her cage and she dropped to the floor! I expected her to be a big splat. I've been checking on her since then and she ate six BB flies last night. Just won't touch a roach except she got mad at me for sticking one in her face and ripped a leg off and ate it. That was it. And, yeah, she doesn't get to roam anymore after that scare!

I wish I could figure out how to keep her warmer. Our house is 69 degrees. Our summer heat is over so no help there. Her cage is on a heat pad with a thermostat that is set at 80 but her plastic critter cage won't climb above 75 degrees. I do have a small space heater I could use but then there is a humidity problem. How do you keep yours warm and humid? I realize this doesn't belong in this category, but I think her environment is more important now that she has mated, right?


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## MantidBro (Sep 29, 2015)

Deacon said:


> There is a photo of her abdomen a few topics down from this one, titled "Help what is my mated girl oozing?" It's because of the educated souls on this forum that I now know it is her anus. It seems slightly smaller now and "dryer" looking. She is able to pass frass.
> 
> Not sure how fat is too fat as she is my first mantid. I've looked through the photos on the forum but every specie is so different.. Her abdomen looks like a washboard and she is getting clumsy enough to have fallen. My mistake, as she climbed 3' up the wall a few days ago while I was cleaning her cage and she dropped to the floor! I expected her to be a big splat. I've been checking on her since then and she ate six BB flies last night. Just won't touch a roach except she got mad at me for sticking one in her face and ripped a leg off and ate it. That was it. And, yeah, she doesn't get to roam anymore after that scare!
> 
> I wish I could figure out how to keep her warmer. Our house is 69 degrees. Our summer heat is over so no help there. Her cage is on a heat pad with a thermostat that is set at 80 but her plastic critter cage won't climb above 75 degrees. I do have a small space heater I could use but then there is a humidity problem. How do you keep yours warm and humid? I realize this doesn't belong in this category, but I think her environment is more important now that she has mated, right?


Just saw the photo, thats exactly what it is, a prolapsed anus, glad you were able to get help! if you could show a photo of her whole body then i could help ya. If she ate flies she should be okay, maybe she just wasnt hungry anymore. Id say 75 degrees is pretty good for a sinensis. Meaning she wont pass away from it reaching that temp, if thats what youre worried about? i use heat lamps for my mantids, and use dirt and/or moss for humidity. She should lay under the conditions shes currently in. Humidity is really only for the molting, now that shes an adult she doesnt need humidity so much. She just needs water to drink, thats it. For the ootheca though, you should keep it humid, but not too humid. I let my oothecae dry up for a bit before misting them again. Ventilation is also important.


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## Deacon (Sep 29, 2015)

MantidBro, here she is from the side and from the top (her cage is so full of flies I didn't want to open it so we're looking through plastic with an IPhone.) Thanks for your help!


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## MantidBro (Sep 29, 2015)

Deacon said:


> MantidBro, here she is from the side and from the top (her cage is so full of flies I didn't want to open it so we're looking through plastic with an IPhone.) Thanks for your help!


Oh man, to be honest, that doesnt look good. Her abdomen shouldnt be hanging like that, it should be level with her thorax. She looks to be very swollen. Don't feed her for a few days. Mantids will eat more than they can handle. Just because she eats, doesn't mean she is hungry, or needs to eat.


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## CosbyArt (Sep 29, 2015)

Indeed it looks like she has a bent abdomen, and if the bend creases too much it will block her ability to eat/digest food and she will die. I've had a 3 or 4 mantids that developed that health issue, and they didn't last more than a few weeks once it occurred. Some keepers have managed to rescue/save mantids with that condition (from molting), so best of luck. Here are a few threads about the condition and their care, Deflated?! and Floppy abdomen?.

She also looks obese, and likely the cause of the bent abdomen from the excessive weight, not sure if she has been eating way too much or if it's caused by her prolapse (or the other way around). In her current state though if she falls or hits her abdomen on anything sharp it can easily puncture her or cause it to rupture. Adding a several inch thick layer of excelsior (like found in fruit fly cultures), Spanish moss, or even the party crimped paper (natural/kraft style) will cushion her if she fell.

Hopefully cutting back on feeding will help clear up her obese size and will alleviate her bent abdomen as well. Is she showing any signs of distress or pain from it all? If so you may want to consider if her condition will only deteriorate and if something should be humanely done. Try reducing her food and see if it helps her.


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## MantidBro (Sep 29, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> Indeed it looks like she has a bent abdomen, and if the bend creases too much it will block her ability to eat/digest food and she will die. I've had a 3 or 4 mantids that developed that health issue, and they didn't last more than a few weeks once it occurred. Some keepers have managed to rescue/save mantids with that condition (from molting), so best of luck. Here are a few threads about the condition and their care, Deflated?! and Floppy abdomen?.
> 
> She also looks obese, and likely the cause of the bent abdomen from the excessive weight, not sure if she has been eating way too much or if it's caused by her prolapse (or the other way around). In her current state though if she falls or hits her abdomen on anything sharp it can easily puncture her or cause it to rupture. Adding a several inch thick layer of excelsior (like found in fruit fly cultures), Spanish moss, or even the party crimped paper (natural/kraft style) will cushion her if she fell.
> 
> Hopefully cutting back on feeding will help clear up her obese size and will alleviate her bent abdomen as well. Is she showing any signs of distress or pain from it all? If so you may want to consider if her condition will only deteriorate and if something should be humanely done. Try reducing her food and see if it helps her.


Good advice


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## Deacon (Sep 30, 2015)

When she had her final molt, two months ago, she fell with her old skin. I found both of them on her cage floor. I thought she would die as her back? looked broken and she never got her wings expanded--she really looks like a turkey. But, she lives, eats much lighter than the 15 BB flies you give yours, was mated 19 days ago even though her anus had begun to prolapse, and I just thought she was gravid (I think that's the word for full of eggs.) So, not full of eggs, just fat??

Okay, I just read what you suggested. I am going to take another cage, set it on its long side (so the lid will be a side, and glue shelf liner to what will be the other three sides and leave the top bare of any climbing cover. That would mean she could only hang vertically and the cage will only be 8" tall . I will put something soft for her to fall on. (When she is on a flat surface, she flattens out (the male had no trouble mating with her even with the wing situation.) Hopefully she won't try walking across the bare ceiling!

And, I'll give her a couple of days without food. Then I'll try to reassess what's happening (if she's alive.) Even with her problems, she seems calm and likes to walk around when loose.

Thank you so much!


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## CosbyArt (Sep 30, 2015)

Deacon said:


> When she had her final molt, two months ago, she fell with her old skin. I found both of them on her cage floor. I thought she would die as her back? looked broken and she never got her wings expanded--she really looks like a turkey. But, she lives, eats much lighter than the 15 BB flies you give yours, was mated 19 days ago even though her anus had begun to prolapse, and I just thought she was gravid (I think that's the word for full of eggs.) So, not full of eggs, just fat??
> 
> Okay, I just read what you suggested. I am going to take another cage, set it on its long side (so the lid will be a side, and glue shelf liner to what will be the other three sides and leave the top bare of any climbing cover. That would mean she could only hang vertically and the cage will only be 8" tall . I will put something soft for her to fall on. (When she is on a flat surface, she flattens out (the male had no trouble mating with her even with the wing situation.) Hopefully she won't try walking across the bare ceiling!
> 
> ...


If she is still going strong I'd just add the cushioning to her habitat and keep her the best you can, seems like she is a trooper determined to live.  

That habitat build would help some, and one thing to do as suggested for the bent abdomen is have inclined places for her to perch on. Such as sticks angled about 45 degrees or less, that way she is happy but the weight isn't pulling on her abdomen so much from her hanging completely horizontal upside down.

The ideal container would be a pyramid as suggest by Precious, that way there is no ceiling for her to get on. Not sure of a way to do that in a kritter keeper, but you could put it on it's side (like you suggested) and cover it with 4 pieces of cut plastic to form a pyramid shape inside it; however, it would have be angled to come to a sharp point on top for best results, and the bottom ends glued flat so she can't get behind it.

She likely is gravid, but even so she is overly rounded. Below I attached a photo from online, not mine, of a gravid Chinese mantis. Although mine looked like that one just before she laid her ooth. Likely your girls appearance is even more pronounced though, as typically their large wings do hide a lot of their abdomen.


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## Deacon (Sep 30, 2015)

Pretty Chinese mantis. Looking at her, I don't think mine is any bigger. Since mine, in the photo, was hanging upside down (and in her cage) I think maybe it was distorted. I'll try to get her out for a photo when she walking.

I did get four sides of a critter cage covered, leaving the ceiling bare plastic. I put dampened peat moss on the bottom side with some soft shredded paper over it (like Easter basket grass but more cottony.) Good thing as she plopped down on it after failing to get a grip on the bare ceiling. She finally calmed down and is hanging on the side vertically (her only choice.) Glad she got a good drink before all these exertions! I'll take out the cushioning tomorrow if she has settled in as I think it will suck up the moisture in the peat moss.

If I put a stick in with her at a 45 degree angle, wouldn't she just walk up the bottom side of it and again hang upside down?

Oh, and sorry for double posting on the photos above and having them duplicate. Any way to delete them?


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## CosbyArt (Sep 30, 2015)

Deacon said:


> Pretty Chinese mantis. Looking at her, I don't think mine is any bigger. Since mine, in the photo, was hanging upside down (and in her cage) I think maybe it was distorted. I'll try to get her out for a photo when she walking.
> 
> I did get four sides of a critter cage covered, leaving the ceiling bare plastic. I put dampened peat moss on the bottom side with some soft shredded paper over it (like Easter basket grass but more cottony.) Good thing as she plopped down on it after failing to get a grip on the bare ceiling. She finally calmed down and is hanging on the side vertically (her only choice.) Glad she got a good drink before all these exertions! I'll take out the cushioning tomorrow if she has settled in as I think it will suck up the moisture in the peat moss.
> 
> ...


The double post wasn't you. It was MantidBro, he likes to click the quote button and always leaves the photos intact.  

Sounds like you made some improvements, and glad to hear the padding has already helped her. I wouldn't worry about the padding drawing moisture, if you are, just mist a bit more if needed - as it will likely be needed again by your girl until her problems subside.

Regarding the sticks - the thing is your mantid will not be able to hang completely upside down, as she would a vertical surface (like the top/ceiling), even on the back of the stick so it will help as the strain will not be as great.


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## Deacon (Oct 2, 2015)

Oh, of course, I get it now. This girl---she has slept on the vertical side head first! That didn't help her floppy abdomen. She's doing better in there after 48 hours of staying straight up but she sure wants out the clear top. I hear her scraping on it all the time.

Considering that she has been mal-formed since becoming an adult, isn't it too late at 8 wks to reverse the damage? I can see where it could relieve her digestion, etc. but she'll always be floppy, right?

Have you ever had a mantis that didn't like climbing sticks? She has a branch, about an inch in diameter, smooth-ish from being scrubbed often and she doesn't touch it. Maybe if I wrap some fake flowers around it (like in one of your tutorials) she might use it. She loves climbing in my orchids anyway.

Anyway, thanks for your help, once again.


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## CosbyArt (Oct 2, 2015)

Deacon said:


> Oh, of course, I get it now. This girl---she has slept on the vertical side head first! That didn't help her floppy abdomen. She's doing better in there after 48 hours of staying straight up but she sure wants out the clear top. I hear her scraping on it all the time.
> 
> Considering that she has been mal-formed since becoming an adult, isn't it too late at 8 wks to reverse the damage? I can see where it could relieve her digestion, etc. but she'll always be floppy, right?
> 
> ...


Sounds like she is exploring the new setup, she should stop clawing at it within a few days.

Indeed without being able to molt, the bent abdomen will likely not get better sadly. It is a more of a stop gab measure to ensure it doesn't get worse, and to help her with her remaining time). Most likely it will always be floppy, but given time it may not be so pronounced if her exoskeleton/muscles have a chance to rebuilt some.

Can't say I haven't. Perhaps she is having problems with feet gripping the surface properly. A fake ivy or flower stems may very well help her climb it though. It may very be that is likes the other stick better too.  

No problem, your welcome to whatever I can offer in help.


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