# Guess What?!!!!!



## Katnapper (Jul 14, 2009)

Omg.... I still can't believe it. We are going to be gone for 2 days (mini vacation in Chicago, Six Flags, Museum of Science &amp; Industry), tomorrow and Wednesday. Actually I am supposed to get up in less than 3 hours to get ready to go! Ughhh...!!!!!

Anyways.... I was feeding, misting, etc. getting bugs all taken care of to hopefully be OK for 2 days. I was misting my net cages with ooths inside waiting to hatch... I've got 2 "columns" of them stacked 4 high; and I dutifully misted down to the bottom ones. The ones on the bottom are the C. humeralis ooths I'm incubating, but didn't have much faith in... as I didn't think any of my girls mated when I had a couple of guys (short lived and deadly relationships!). But just as I was about to put the next cage back on top of one of the bottom ones.... I saw something real quick.... looked like a newborn nymph! I got the cage up, looked... and lo and behold, there was 1 little C. humeralis nymph that just hatched in there!!!! The ooth had several black things on it... looked like 2 or 3 nymphs got stuck trying to get out. I'm soooooo hoping it hatches more... and here I am going away for 2 days! I didn't really think the ooths would hatch, so I haven't really been misting them as regularly as I should have been. I'm afraid I might have caused them to dry out now!  Well.... I misted thoroughly and will just hope for the best, I guess. But I had to tell you my great news!  

See you all Thursday... won't be back till then.


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## Falchion (Jul 14, 2009)

Congratulations, great news


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## Rob Byatt (Jul 14, 2009)

Good to hear, though this may not be all good  

I have witnessed parthenogenesis on a few occasions with this species and it usually ends in tears. The hatch rate is typically very low and the nymphs are week.

lets hope this is not the case here.....


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## Giosan (Jul 14, 2009)

I have had that Rob, very sad when you actually think there will be more  

Oh but have a great time Becky!!!! We'll hear more when you get back


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## [email protected] (Jul 14, 2009)

[SIZE=14pt]Good luck, and have fun Becky :lol: [/SIZE]


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## beckyl92 (Jul 14, 2009)

have fun


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## nasty bugger (Jul 14, 2009)

Well, I don't think the newborn mantis' will be able to get on the rides cause they won't make the 'this tall' requirement to ride, but they should be there when you get back  Enjoy, the two days, then the new guys.

Fruitflies in with the ooths.


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## Lizard (Jul 14, 2009)

Good luck with the little ones.

And have fun.


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## ismart (Jul 14, 2009)

Rob Byatt said:


> Good to hear, though this may not be all good  I have witnessed parthenogenesis on a few occasions with this species and it usually ends in tears. The hatch rate is typically very low and the nymphs are week.
> 
> lets hope this is not the case here.....


Darn! I had no idear they could be parthenogenic. I would have loved to whitness this myself. Hopefully this is not the case, and at least one of the males got the job done. Good luck Becky, and enjoy your trip!


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## Katnapper (Jul 17, 2009)

Rob Byatt said:


> Good to hear, though this may not be all good  I have witnessed parthenogenesis on a few occasions with this species and it usually ends in tears. The hatch rate is typically very low and the nymphs are week.
> 
> lets hope this is not the case here.....


Hmmm.... thank you very much for the input, Rob. I didn't know this species ever reproduced parthenogenically either. Each of the 4 adult females I had were "exposed" and caged with males for several days before the males were eventually eaten. But although I had witnessed mounting, I did not actually see physical connection. Two of the females ended up dying, and the other 2 laid ooths. I have 7 ooths currently from the two females, that I am now misting generously.

Out of four nymphs that eventually emerged from this ooth, three are living. One got caught underneath the paper towel substrate, and I think I smashed/drowned him when I saturated the paper towel before leaving for Chicago. I did not notice him until I returned. Tonight upon taking pics of the nymphs and ooths, I also discovered one of 5 of the nymphs who appear to have gotten "stuck" exiting the ooth, is still alive. I've misted the ooth in hopes he may be able to emerge the rest of the way, but I'm not hopeful. Will post further background and pics soon, along with any updates.

One of the live C. humeralis nymphs (L1 - Three days after hatching)







Close-up of previous pic (he/she has water droplets all over from being misted)






Same nymph


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## [email protected] (Jul 17, 2009)

Any pictures of the adults i have no idea what they are?? :blink: :lol:


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## revmdn (Jul 17, 2009)

Very cool. Keep us posted.


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## Katnapper (Jul 17, 2009)

Chase said:


> Any pictures of the adults i have no idea what they are?? :blink: :lol:


Here you go, Chase!  

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?sh...amp;#entry99862


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## Katnapper (Jul 23, 2009)

Well... so far, so good.  The three nymphs are still alive and seem to be doing fine! ^_^ They are very tiny, almost as small as the _D. melanogaster_ they are eating. I have to really look and search amongst the fruit flies every time to find each of them in the 12x12 net cage which is their home!  

Here are a couple more pics of one of the nymphs.











The other day I was amazed to find the nymph who was still alive, but partially stuck in the ooth for several days, unbelievably made it the rest of the way out!  But he was obviously crippled where his back legs had been stuck. And though still alive when the pic was taken, he had no hope of surviving. You can see the dried exuvia still attached to the back legs.






Here was the ooth before he managed to free himself. I almost hated looking at it, as I could see he was still alive and struggling. I'm guessing the frequent mistings finally helped soften the exuvia and allowed him to exit. I wish I would have misted frequently* before* the hatching!  






Close-up






It remains to be seen if this low hatch rate was a case of the ooth being too dry (as I had little faith in their fertility, and did not mist as frequently as I should have), or an unusual, but apparently not totally unknown, case of parthenogenesis of this species.


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## Katnapper (Jul 23, 2009)

I have 6 other ooths, laid by two females. Some appear deformed, and some appear fairly normal. The one remaining living female just laid another ooth 2 days ago. It appears normal in shape like some of the others; and I hope this means she just may be the only one of the four to successfully mate and produce fertile ooths.

Here are pics of each of the other ooths (all but the most recent one mentioned). I still don't have much faith in the deformed looking ones. A couple of the ooths have what almost appears to be holes with the head of a nymph just starting to peek through. I'm hoping these weren't too dry and prevented hatching already.

This one is another one that was laid in the same net cage as the one which hatched the few nymphs. You can see the fruit flies are checking it out.






Here is a close-up of the fruit fly (flying _D. melanogaster_)
















I think this one and the next pic are of the same ooth at different angles.











Fairly deformed






Pretty badly deformed, I think.


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## ismart (Jul 23, 2009)

Even the deformed ooths could still yeild you some nymphs. Keep misting regularly. Great pic's!


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## revmdn (Jul 23, 2009)

I have an adult female, who any day now, will lay an ooth. I have no male in which to mate her with. Should I keep the ooths in case of parthenogenesis?


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## ismart (Jul 23, 2009)

revmdn said:


> I have an adult female, who any day now, will lay an ooth. I have no male in which to mate her with. Should I keep the ooths in case of parthenogenesis?


It probally would not hurt to hold on to it for a few months. Just don't get your hopes up to high.


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## revmdn (Jul 23, 2009)

I just don't want to trash them if there is a chance something could happen.


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## Katnapper (Jul 23, 2009)

Thanks, Paul! Yes, *now *I am misting generously and regularly.




How ironic that there have been other ooths I've misted regularly for months on end that I thought would hatch, but never did. You just can't be sure with ooths, unfortunately.



ismart said:


> It probally would not hurt to hold on to it for a few months. Just don't get your hopes up to high.


+1 - I agree, Martin. From what Rob said about this species being capable of parthenogenesis, I'd mist and treat it as fertile for a couple of months. It's unlikely to yield anything, but apparently possible.

Why also when you give an update on something that's doing well, it sometimes seems you speak too soon? One of the three nymphs has died.  It doesn't appear to be a case of mis-molt; but one of the other two surviving nymphs has just molted to L2 fine. No indication of any of the other ooths hatching yet.... but you know I'm misting and watching!


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## Rick (Jul 23, 2009)

Those are great pics. Interesting post too.


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## Katnapper (Jul 26, 2009)

Rick said:


> Those are great pics. Interesting post too.


Thanks, Rick.  

The second of the three nymphs has died... leaving only one (the one who has molted to L2).


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## Katnapper (Aug 25, 2009)

The one lonely nymph died yesterday. None of the other ooths has produced anything yet. Maybe it was a case of parthenogenesis. Definitely interesting, but disappointing nonetheless.


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## ismart (Aug 25, 2009)

So sorry!


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## Ntsees (Aug 25, 2009)

Katnapper said:


> The one lonely nymph died yesterday. None of the other ooths has produced anything yet. Maybe it was a case of parthenogenesis. Definitely interesting, but disappointing nonetheless.


Woah, that's a tough species to keep. It reminds me of my experience with Europeans in the past. I'm going have to get my hands on some in the future. I feel the challenge.


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## ismart (Aug 25, 2009)

_Cilinia humeralis_ is my most favorite species! :wub: I really enjoyed them alot. I failed at breeding them for a 6th generation. I did not put as much effort into them as i did previous years. I was kinda more focused on other species.  I find myself really regreting that. I do hope there is someone in the US breeding them. I would love to have them again sometime.


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## planetq (Aug 26, 2009)

ismart said:


> _Cilinia humeralis_ is my most favorite species!


That's cool that they are your most favorite species! Why is that for you? I'm curious!

Hopefully someone in the U.S still has them.

Hello U.S forum members! Any one keeping some C.humeralises?

Minkyu


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## Giosan (Aug 26, 2009)

Very tough species..

Like them too though, I have some females still living laying ugly unfertile ooths!

Why I like them:

They look cute but agressive as heck

But don't be disappointed - they get aggresive the older they are. As a nymph they are just like any other mantis. The bigger their arms - the more ego they get. It seems!


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## bassist (Aug 26, 2009)

calarts_security said:


> That's cool that they are your most favorite species! Why is that for you? I'm curious!Hopefully someone in the U.S still has them.
> 
> Hello U.S forum members! Any one keeping some C.humeralises?
> 
> Minkyu


I have a pair at L6 atm wish me luck =\


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## Katnapper (Aug 26, 2009)

bassist said:


> I have a pair at L6 atm wish me luck =\


Best of luck with them, Tommy!!!!


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## ismart (Aug 26, 2009)

calarts_security said:


> That's cool that they are your most favorite species! Why is that for you? I'm curious!Minkyu


I like there stocky build. They look more like aliens to me than most other mantis species. I know that sounds weird, but just take a good look at there face. I think what really made them my fav was when i feed my first adult female a wild caught locust. She hit it so hard it almost seemed like it exploded on impact! :lol: There was so much blood and goo that fell out. On closer inspection i realized her grasp was so tight it looked like her claws were just folded normally.  Overall there aggresive behavor is just fun to whatch.


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## revmdn (Aug 26, 2009)

My adult female is just so aggressive during feeding. Very solid bug. She really likes to explore also.


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## planetq (Aug 26, 2009)

bassist said:


> I have a pair at L6 atm wish me luck =\


Wow! Good luck! Carry on the blood line!



ismart said:


> I like there stocky build. They look more like aliens to me than most other mantis species. I know that sounds weird, but just take a good look at there face. I think what really made them my fav was when i feed my first adult female a wild caught locust. She hit it so hard it almost seemed like it exploded on impact! :lol: There was so much blood and goo that fell out. On closer inspection i realized her grasp was so tight it looked like her claws were just folded normally.  Overall there aggresive behavor is just fun to whatch.


Cool! Man... now I'm getting all excited for these guys!


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## vera_renczi (Aug 26, 2009)

I would love to try some wide armed mantids after my budwings run their course.

Rebecca, your photography is amazingly good!!!!


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## Katnapper (Aug 26, 2009)

vera_renczi said:


> I would love to try some wide armed mantids after my budwings run their course. Rebecca, your photography is amazingly good!!!!


Thank you!  I hope there will be some in culture that you (and others) will be able to try!


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