# What in the world happened?!



## OGIGA

What in the world happened to my mantis?!

It was fine a few hours ago. I just checked it and it was on the bottom. One of its legs broke off and the abdomen looks completely messed up. It looks like the abdomen exploded without the skin breaking. I don't know if those white strands of things are worms, but they don't move when I poke it. Maybe they're some kind of vessels or intestines. I just want to know what could have happened to the poor thing.

Here are the pictures:









Oh, yesterday, I fed it a little bit of fly juice... umm, I poked a hole in a fly pupae with a toothpick and it ate a bit of the juices inside. It didn't eat very much of it.


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## Rick

I've said it before and I will say it again, sometimes they just die. It's happened to all of us at one point or another.


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## robo mantis

That is what mine looked like when they exploded.


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## ABbuggin

I dot kkow what happened to your mantis but the white lines are beathing tubes. You can see them hanging out of a matid's shed skin.

AB


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## wuwu

i've had this happen a few times before. i'm not 100% sure but i think it was trying to shed but the skin never slit open. so the new bigger body is suffocated in the smaller, older skin, causing it to die.


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## jplelito

Your dead mantid began the process of ecdysis (molting), but failed to complete it for some reason - humidity, falling, disturbance by a prey item, etc.

The white scrunchy tubes seen on its sides are the tracheal system of the insect (how it breathes) that began to pull out of the old cuticle (the outside 'exoskeleton' of the mantid), but the mantid never managed to free itself completely. It may have fallen, or it may have had some other defect not obvious externally. Sometimes messed up hormones and things can be responsible for this, and since its chemistry... you would have no idea your mantid was not quite right (as compared to obvious things like, say, a missing leg).

You can also see the molting process in that the wing buds of this nymph are all swollen and raised up - the poor little thing was definitely in the beginning of a molt when he/she died.

It is sad but it is good - the ones that are not perfect at molting don't get to pass on their bad genes to the next batch of your pets


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## OGIGA

> Your dead mantid began the process of ecdysis (molting), but failed to complete it for some reason - humidity, falling, disturbance by a prey item, etc. The white scrunchy tubes seen on its sides are the tracheal system of the insect (how it breathes) that began to pull out of the old cuticle (the outside 'exoskeleton' of the mantid), but the mantid never managed to free itself completely. It may have fallen, or it may have had some other defect not obvious externally. Sometimes messed up hormones and things can be responsible for this, and since its chemistry... you would have no idea your mantid was not quite right (as compared to obvious things like, say, a missing leg).
> 
> You can also see the molting process in that the wing buds of this nymph are all swollen and raised up - the poor little thing was definitely in the beginning of a molt when he/she died.
> 
> It is sad but it is good - the ones that are not perfect at molting don't get to pass on their bad genes to the next batch of your pets


Oh I see. That was pretty helpful. I keep the humidity pretty high so I don't know if it was a little too humid. Maybe it just fell. Oh well. Life goes on.


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## Ian

> Oh well. Life goes on.


Not for the mantis ^_^ 

Sorry to hear about that...but interest photo and follow up there.


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## OGIGA

Sad. Yet another mantis had to be frozen after an unsuccessful molt.


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## OGIGA

And another. Now I have two mantises left.


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## robo mantis

dude  that stinks. so are they all dieing the same way?? maybe we can help.


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## OGIGA

They're dying due to molting. Last night, one didn't make it out of its old skin. When I came home today, one fell while molting. It was already having problems stabilizing itself though so I didn't expect it to make it.


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## robo mantis

I too had a molting problem but my mantis is pulling through


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## OGIGA

That's nice. I just got back from class and it looks like my last L4 is molting to L5. I don't know how long it has been like that, but everything seems to be out except for 1/3 of each of its 4 legs.


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## OGIGA

It's been long enough now for me to know that there's a problem. I don't know what I can do with this one. (it didn't molt like this, I just somehow got it into this position)







One front leg is already broken and the two rear legs don't look so good. If it makes it, it's going to have just one leg and two arms.


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## OGIGA

With lots of care, I managed to help get one leg out, the bent one.


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## robo mantis

I think i know your problem. I think the humidity is to low. you may have to amputat that back leg. but first does the mantis go on like nothing is wrong? or does it struggle to walk with that leg? if it has a hard time clip the leg. but give it a few days to see if the legs grows in properly.


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## OGIGA

Okay, it was an extremely rough operation, but I got the other leg out. It's straight, but doesn't seem exactly functional. Hope it'll work properly when it dries.


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## Peekaboo

What apparatus is your mantis molting from? And what are the humidty levels?


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## OGIGA

I don't think the humidity is too low. I keep the humidity really high, infact maybe too high. Anyway, here's how it ended up.


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## OGIGA

> What apparatus is your mantis molting from? And what are the humidty levels?


It wasn't molting like that. I just somehow got it like that so I can do something about it, and it turns out that it's great for taking pictures too.

Anyway, my apparatus is as follows. I keep them in a modified water bottle shaped like a cup with a mesh attached to the inside. Then, with the mantis in there, I turn the cup upsidedown onto a pan with a wet napkin and put it an inch above a coffee mug warmer. Within minutes, the cup fogs up because of the humidity.


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## Peekaboo

Your decription boggles my mind! :lol: Do you have a photo you can post of what it looks like?

It sounds like it is too moist for them, especially since there doesn't seem to be any ventilation from the description you gave. You might be steaming them to death. But that's just speculation without being able to see what the set up actually looks like.


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## robo mantis

lol no it is fine the air holes are big enough. Ok it is simple to cut the leg it takes a lot of courage but if i can do it anyone can. just get a scissors reach in and quickly cut at the knee join. the mantis will freak out for a few seconds then will be fine. can rick please give him more details.


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## OGIGA

> You might be steaming them to death.


That's incredibly funny! I never thought of it like that.

Anyway, it doesn't get higher than 100'F in there so it just feels tropical. They're native to here and it gets really dry in the summer so maybe tropical doesn't work best for them.

I'm going to wait a bit before cutting off its leg. I've seen legs straighten out before.


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## Peekaboo

Hmmm well I'm from the South Bay, which I'm guessing is similar in climate to you. My suggestion would be to ease up a bit on the humidity and heat. They'll be comfy in 80 degree weather. I've raised plenty of mantids with success at room temperature (70-80 degrees).


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## OGIGA

> Hmmm well I'm from the South Bay, which I'm guessing is similar in climate to you. My suggestion would be to ease up a bit on the humidity and heat. They'll be comfy in 80 degree weather. I've raised plenty of mantids with success at room temperature (70-80 degrees).


Oh awesome! Well, I'm in Davis being a terrible student for studying mantises too much and not for school. I'll agree that the bay is nice and humid. I don't have that much control over the temperature or humidity, but I don't think summer temperature should harm them. Maybe I can give them a bit less water. Makes me able to see them better.


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## Peekaboo

Ironically enough, the air is actually fairly dry in the Bay Area. Which makes humidity a challenge, since mantids need to be well ventilated too.

When it comes to humidity, I mist them well twice a day. I usually do it once in the mornings and again at night or evening. You want the water to be able to dry off between mistings -- helps prevent mold and fungus.

And about once a week, I like to remoisturize their substrate. I'll soak their moss, squeeze off the excess, and put it back inside their enclosure.

This method has worked well for me so far.


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## OGIGA

> You want the water to be able to dry off between mistings -- helps prevent mold and fungus.


Good point. I didn't think of that.


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## xenuwantsyou

I only spray every two days for my H. Grandis and they do just fine. And I feel your pain. There was a stretch where about 1 in every two of my mantids wouldn't make it out of their skins. It's a terrible feeling. Actually, there's a small dent in the wall of the bug room right now. :evil:

I hope your mantid comes out alright.

On a side note, that first pic is one of the more disturbing things I ever seen.


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