# Availabilty of Idolomantis diabolica in USA



## pohchunyee (Aug 4, 2009)

I was wondering, since there are at least 30 Idolomantis diabolica ooth (from DonL. and Villosa) being shipped from Tanzania into the states (and sold among us), are there anyone in USA who have a breeding colony? I know a few of individual are sad purchasing hatched/dead ooth. Some ooth had been incubated for 2 months with no hatching. Anyone out there (USA) who had their ooth hatched and have a colony, please post or contact me. I would love to have different bloodlines for my colony.

(Please _DO NOT_ message me asking to me to sell mine out!!! I am only interested in trading mine with a different bloodlines of Idolomantis diabolica in USA right now)


----------



## Christian (Aug 4, 2009)

I don't recommend mixing up stocks. Again, inbreeding is a myth in insects and if you work with a large own colony you will not have any problems. I breed mine for 5 years now and did not include any new specimen. On the contrary, I don't know of anyone who has combined different bloodlines to have bred this species successfully for longer periods.


----------



## Kruszakus (Aug 4, 2009)

Christian said:


> I don't recommend mixing up stocks. Again, inbreeding is a myth in insects and if you work with a large own colony you will not have any problems. I breed mine for 5 years now and did not include any new specimen. On the contrary, I don't know of anyone who has combined different bloodlines to have bred this species successfully for longer periods.


Hmmm, what might be the problem? I always thought that mixing them bloodlines... "freshens up" a colony a bit. Can it be because of the fact, that this species lives in different regions, and thus creates its own "strains"?

Pardon my crude interpretation...


----------



## pohchunyee (Aug 4, 2009)

Christian said:


> I don't recommend mixing up stocks. Again, inbreeding is a myth in insects and if you work with a large own colony you will not have any problems. I breed mine for 5 years now and did not include any new specimen. On the contrary, I don't know of anyone who has combined different bloodlines to have bred this species successfully for longer periods.


Hmm...... quite interesting! Thanks for the information Christian!


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 4, 2009)

[SIZE=14pt]I seen some on Manits place but I dont know if there up 4 sell yet.[/SIZE]


----------



## Christian (Aug 4, 2009)

> Hmmm, what might be the problem? I always thought that mixing them bloodlines... "freshens up" a colony a bit. Can it be because of the fact, that this species lives in different regions, and thus creates its own "strains"?


Sincerily, we don't know. But this may well be the explanation, only adding that the different strains/stocks also require different conditions. It cartainly has also something to do with the distance between different collecting locations. Only 2 stocks actually in culture have a somewhat traceable origin, that is the Mwanza stock and the new Kenya stock. The first (now extinct) Kenya stock and also the extinct Moshi stock were incompatible with Mwanza specimens. We didn't try crossings again, as keeping our functioning stock healthy had priority.


----------



## Kruszakus (Aug 4, 2009)

Seems like my assumption proved to be somewhat accurate. Man, I'm scho schmart!


----------



## jarek (Aug 4, 2009)

is it somehow similar to Empusa case where you have the same species, but the european one would require period of diapause and the other would not even though they're the same species?


----------



## pohchunyee (Aug 4, 2009)

Kinda steer off topic now... please stick to the topic.....

I was wondering, since there are at least 30 Idolomantis diabolica ooth (from DonL. and Villosa) being shipped from Tanzania into the states (and sold among us), are there anyone in USA who have a breeding colony? I know a few of individual are sad purchasing hatched/dead ooth. Some ooth had been incubated for 2 months with no hatching. Anyone out there (USA) who had their ooth hatched and have a colony, please post or contact me. I would love to have different bloodlines for my colony.

(Please DO NOT message me asking to me to sell mine out!!! I am only interested in trading mine with a different bloodlines of Idolomantis diabolica in USA right now)


----------



## francisco (Aug 4, 2009)

pohchunyee said:


> Kinda steer off topic now... please stick to the topic.....I was wondering, since there are at least 30 Idolomantis diabolica ooth (from DonL. and Villosa) being shipped from Tanzania into the states (and sold among us), are there anyone in USA who have a breeding colony? I know a few of individual are sad purchasing hatched/dead ooth. Some ooth had been incubated for 2 months with no hatching. Anyone out there (USA) who had their ooth hatched and have a colony, please post or contact me. I would love to have different bloodlines for my colony.
> 
> (Please DO NOT message me asking to me to sell mine out!!! I am only interested in trading mine with a different bloodlines of Idolomantis diabolica in USA right now)


Seems like you are the only one.

Good luck to you my friend.

francisco


----------



## hibiscusmile (Aug 5, 2009)

Yea, it seems that way, I havent heard of any hatchings either.


----------



## Katnapper (Aug 5, 2009)

Dave (Lectric) didn't get a hatch from his that he purchased from Don L. It was all holey and appeared to have already hatched before he received it (and not in the post). Don promised him a replacement ooth. At the time, Dave decided to get out of the hobby (not completely, but for the most part right now) because of time constraints. So he asked Don to just send the replacement Idolo ooth to me (as Dave and I had come to an agreement with me acquiring almost all of his mantids and supplies, including the Idolomantis ooth that was supposed to be coming from Don L.). The ooth never arrived. Don was quick to say it must have gotten lost in the post...... but I agree with Dave; I grew up on a farm and I know bullsh!t! when I smell it. Obviously no hatching of Idolomantids here!

I think you got extremely lucky, Chun Poh.  I'm really glad you at least got some hatchlings!


----------



## pohchunyee (Aug 6, 2009)

Well, I guess I am the only one! Thanks for the update everyone. ALSO THANKS FOR THOSE WHO FLOODED MY MESSAGE INBOX ASKING ME TO SELL MY IDOLOMANTIS DIABOLICA (You know who you are)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Christian (Aug 6, 2009)

I am always warning from buying WC ooths of this species. Besides of conservation issues, you don't know the origin in the meanwhile, and in most cases you get hatched ooths. It's like the good old gold-rush: someone gets a good one and subsequently, everyone wants one, but most don't get good ones. In the end, you have spent more bucks on dead ooths than you would have spent if you bought some captive bred nymphs, besides of the fact that you get the necessary information then. One may ask why people still engage in trading ooths from Africa, when considering that the only one who makes his deal, laughing at you, is the African dealer. The problem may be that people are less interested in just adding this species to their culture than making money of them. So, if you ask me, this is nature exploitation and all you guys don't deserve it better! Don't take me wrong, I am also selling this species, making some bucks, which helps me sustain my hobby - but it is the result of my own work, of my own 5-year long efforts. What all these traders do is just trying to make money from WC animals, and this is not what the hobby should be. Particularly those who fail due to a lack of experience should better "consume" captive bred specimens than WC ones. But, as I said, getting this species to one's collection isn't the only aspect, otherwise this market with African dealers/frauders would not persist. The sense of importing WC aninals is to get them into culture - once there are in culture it isn't necessary to import more! Some people should think about this. What happened to all those successful Idolomantis hatches? What happened to _Heterochaeta_? Some species should be restricted to people who know what they're doing until they were "cracked" and are availeble to the public and should be not exploited from nature by persons who have one _paradoxa_ and one _wahlbergii _at home. I know that this lines will not be liked by the guys I mean, but it's equal to me if someone likes it or not. It had to be said. Sometimes I am really disgusted by the trend that the hobby is following today. And all this in times when some radical politicians think of prohibiting any exotic animal at home. I think it's already reality in the US and hanging as a Damocles sword in Europe already.


----------



## Kruszakus (Aug 6, 2009)

pohchunyee said:


> Well, I guess I am the only one! Thanks for the update everyone. ALSO THANKS FOR THOSE WHO FLOODED MY MESSAGE INBOX ASKING ME TO SELL MY IDOLOMANTIS DIABOLICA (You know who you are)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'm not even gonna post pictures of mine then - but good to know the demand is still very high


----------



## Katnapper (Aug 6, 2009)

Christian said:


> I am always warning from buying WC ooths of this species. Besides of conservation issues, you don't know the origin in the meanwhile, and in most cases you get hatched ooths. It's like the good old gold-rush: someone gets a good one and subsequently, everyone wants one, but most don't get good ones. In the end, you have spent more bucks on dead ooths than you would have spent if you bought some captive bred nymphs, besides of the fact that you get the necessary information then. One may ask why people still engage in trading ooths from Africa, when considering that the only one who makes his deal, laughing at you, is the African dealer. The problem may be that people are less interested in just adding this species to their culture than making money of them. So, if you ask me, this is nature exploitation and all you guys don't deserve it better! Don't take me wrong, I am also selling this species, making some bucks, which helps me sustain my hobby - but it is the result of my own work, of my own 5-year long efforts. What all these traders do is just trying to make money from WC animals, and this is not what the hobby should be. Particularly those who fail due to a lack of experience should better "consume" captive bred specimens than WC ones. But, as I said, getting this species to one's collection isn't the only aspect, otherwise this market with African dealers/frauders would not persist. The sense of importing WC aninals is to get them into culture - once there are in culture it isn't necessary to import more! Some people should think about this. What happened to all those successful Idolomantis hatches? What happened to _Heterochaeta_? Some species should be restricted to people who know what they're doing until they were "cracked" and are availeble to the public and should be not exploited from nature by persons who have one _paradoxa_ and one _wahlbergii _at home. I know that this lines will not be liked by the guys I mean, but it's equal to me if someone likes it or not. It had to be said. Sometimes I am really disgusted by the trend that the hobby is following today. And all this in times when some radical politicians think of prohibiting any exotic animal at home. I think it's already reality in the US and hanging as a Damocles sword in Europe already.


A big +1


----------



## revmdn (Aug 6, 2009)

I personally don't see the big deal over this species other than the hype of it being hard to get. When you're told you can't have it, you want it more. There are so many great mantids in the hobby already. If the species is being threatened because the ooths are being over harvested, maybe people in the hobby should back off it. Or maybe they will after being ripped off enough by these dealers.


----------



## bassist (Aug 6, 2009)

revmdn said:


> I personally don't see the big deal over this species other than the hype of it being hard to get.


I agree with this I've even been told _Idolomantis _are stupid and don't deserve life LO


----------



## Christian (Aug 6, 2009)

They're not stupid, they're specialized!


----------



## PhilinYuma (Aug 6, 2009)

Christian said:


> I am always warning from buying WC ooths of this species. Besides of conservation issues, you don't know the origin in the meanwhile, and in most cases you get hatched ooths. It's like the good old gold-rush: someone gets a good one and subsequently, everyone wants one, but most don't get good ones. In the end, you have spent more bucks on dead ooths than you would have spent if you bought some captive bred nymphs, besides of the fact that you get the necessary information then. One may ask why people still engage in trading ooths from Africa, when considering that the only one who makes his deal, laughing at you, is the African dealer. The problem may be that people are less interested in just adding this species to their culture than making money of them. So, if you ask me, this is nature exploitation and all you guys don't deserve it better! Don't take me wrong, I am also selling this species, making some bucks, which helps me sustain my hobby - but it is the result of my own work, of my own 5-year long efforts. What all these traders do is just trying to make money from WC animals, and this is not what the hobby should be. Particularly those who fail due to a lack of experience should better "consume" captive bred specimens than WC ones. But, as I said, getting this species to one's collection isn't the only aspect, otherwise this market with African dealers/frauders would not persist. The sense of importing WC aninals is to get them into culture - once there are in culture it isn't necessary to import more! Some people should think about this. What happened to all those successful Idolomantis hatches? What happened to _Heterochaeta_? Some species should be restricted to people who know what they're doing until they were "cracked" and are availeble to the public and should be not exploited from nature by persons who have one _paradoxa_ and one _wahlbergii _at home. I know that this lines will not be liked by the guys I mean, but it's equal to me if someone likes it or not. It had to be said. Sometimes I am really disgusted by the trend that the hobby is following today. And all this in times when some radical politicians think of prohibiting any exotic animal at home. I think it's already reality in the US and hanging as a Damocles sword in Europe already.


+2!


----------



## Kruszakus (Aug 6, 2009)

revmdn said:


> I personally don't see the big deal over this species other than the hype of it being hard to get. When you're told you can't have it, you want it more. There are so many great mantids in the hobby already. If the species is being threatened because the ooths are being over harvested, maybe people in the hobby should back off it. Or maybe they will after being ripped off enough by these dealers.


You ever had this species? Like, for a longer period of time, that would allow you to see how they grow and so on?


----------



## hibiscusmile (Aug 6, 2009)

I dont think really any insect is stupid, they do what God designed for them to do, when we interfere, the enviorment cannot really be duplicated, so they have to adjust to us, and that does not always work. So when it doesn't happen we consider that they are stupid, hummmm ^_^


----------



## Christian (Aug 6, 2009)

I'd rather prefer to say "what evolution designed for them to do"... But, ok, this isn't an issue to be discussed here.


----------



## jarek (Aug 6, 2009)

Christian said:


> I'd rather prefer to say "what evolution designed for them to do"... But, ok, this isn't an issue to be discussed here.


any religious issues should be a taboo topic


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 6, 2009)

jarek said:


> any religious issues should be a taboo topic


[SIZE=14pt]Why be sides being off topic.[/SIZE]

Now my Ooths didn't hatch but besides they arn't Idolomantis they where the Giant flower he had, but you think out of all of the Ooth sold more would of hatched.

Oh I had A thought Cristian what are the differentences in the 2 kinds of Idolomantis that you had talked about earlyer in this topic and are there any different with these that are from Tazania,

keep in mine I am asking this to see if cross breeding is a bad thing?


----------



## Christian (Aug 6, 2009)

Seriously, ArkBlue, your gibberish is hard to read and hard to understand.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 6, 2009)

Christian said:


> Sincerily, we don't know. But this may well be the explanation, only adding that the different strains/stocks also require different conditions. It cartainly has also something to do with the distance between different collecting locations. Only 2 stocks actually in culture have a somewhat traceable origin, that is the Mwanza stock and the new Kenya stock. The first (now extinct) Kenya stock and also the extinct Moshi stock were incompatible with Mwanza specimens. We didn't try crossings again, as keeping our functioning stock healthy had priority.


[SIZE=14pt]Ok let me try it this way now what is the differentences of the Kenya, Mwanza, and Tanzania?[/SIZE]



Christian said:


> Seriously, ArkBlue, your gibberish is hard to read and hard to understand.


[SIZE=14pt]I sorry my Dyflexia pops up more some time then others[/SIZE]


----------



## hibiscusmile (Aug 6, 2009)

You can say evolution for your posts and I can say God for mine, its all in the dsfdfs! And that has nothing to do with religion Jarek.


----------



## ABbuggin (Aug 6, 2009)

In case you didn't know what dsfdfs means: Different Strokes For Different Folks


----------



## Katnapper (Aug 6, 2009)

ABbuggin said:


> In case you didn't know what dsfdfs means: Different Strokes For Different Folks


Thank you, AB...  I was among that group!


----------



## PhilinYuma (Aug 6, 2009)

hibiscusmile said:


> You can say evolution for your posts and I can say God for mine, its all in the dsfdfs! And that has nothing to do with religion Jarek.


Oh good! So can I still invoke the Great Mantis Goddess (Blessed be Her Name)?


----------



## Opivy (Aug 6, 2009)

Christian,

I think that comment was completely unnecessary. Doesn't relate to the topic at all - not to mention you know it will only start some kind of argument.


----------



## yen_saw (Aug 6, 2009)

Chun. all the best to you. Lets hope you could breed them like I did last year. Let me know if you need any help.


----------



## Christian (Aug 7, 2009)

There aren't any obvious differences between the stocks, at least not morphological ones. That's the problem: it is not known why some stocks seem to be incompatible, as they look similar. Crossbreeding should be avoided anyway, becaue it diminishes the local pecularities of certain stocks (e. g. size, ethology). All you get is a very boring, "globalized" mantid, as seen in most _Ps. wahlbergii_ and _Ph. paradoxa_.


----------



## Kruszakus (Aug 7, 2009)

hibiscusmile said:


> I dont think really any insect is stupid, they do what God designed for them to do, when we interfere, the enviorment cannot really be duplicated, so they have to adjust to us, and that does not always work. So when it doesn't happen we consider that they are stupid, hummmm ^_^


I always thought that the name indicated, that I. diabolica were satan's unholy minions.


----------



## Andrew (Aug 7, 2009)

Before we all get completely off topic here, Christian brings up a really good point (outside of the importance of captive breeding) that shouldn't be ignored.



Christian said:


> Sometimes I am really disgusted by the trend that the hobby is following today. And all this in times when some radical politicians think of prohibiting any exotic animal at home. I think it's already reality in the US and hanging as a Damocles sword in Europe already.


The US just dodged HR669 only to have it come back again as HR2811, and it's going to keep coming back. Special interest groups like the HSUS and the Nature Conservancy take in a combined 1.3 billion dollars a year, they don't want you keeping any pets, and they're doing everything they can to put that into action. Anyone keeping an exotic pet (doesn't matter which side of the pond you're on) should look up what kind of legislation is going on and find out what they can do to help stop it. We don't have enough of a voice.



revmdn said:


> I personally don't see the big deal over this species other than the hype of it being hard to get.


You've clearly never seen this species up close and personal, or you wouldn't be saying something like that.


----------



## pohchunyee (Aug 9, 2009)

I am going to end this thread!!!! It is getting way too off topic. Maybe you guys can start another thread on "Differences in Idolomantis diabolica stock", "Insects are stupid" and "ArkBlue's Gibblish"??


----------



## massaman (Aug 10, 2009)

how about a campain to force or a vote to have arkblue to change his text color or something?


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 10, 2009)

massaman said:


> how about a campain to force or a vote to have arkblue to change his text color or something?


[SIZE=14pt]Now that is off topic, and beside then what if I want you to change your name or something on your post then you would have to, and then if John or Joe, and Tammy asked for you to wright in bold pink, that would suck and just be dumb it would rewright freedom!  isnt that right Rick.[/SIZE]


----------



## ismart (Aug 10, 2009)

I had one Idolo ooth that never hatched.


----------



## jarek (Aug 10, 2009)

ArkBlue said:


> [SIZE=14pt]Now that is off topic, and beside then what if I want you to change your name or something on your post then you would have to, and then if John or Joe, and Tammy asked for you to wright in bold pink, that would suck and just be dumb it would rewright freedom!  isnt that right Rick.[/SIZE]


Off topic indeed, but I always go blind when reading your post


----------



## Christian (Aug 10, 2009)

He killed my blue sensivity... It's rather ignorant to use this color despite of everyone disliking it.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 10, 2009)

jarek said:


> Off topic indeed, but I always go blind when reading your post





Christian said:


> He killed my blue sensivity... It's rather ignorant to use this color despite of everyone disliking it.


[SIZE=24pt]Wow so who Going to only use bold in pink ya so agian this is off topic thanks again for the info but black &amp; white hurts my eyes[/SIZE]


----------



## pohchunyee (Aug 13, 2009)

As I though....... this thread turns into an all out spout! Rick...please shut this topic off...no more posting~~


----------

