# Broken limbs and black mouth?



## Monty (Mar 21, 2015)

So I signed up for this site a while back to ask about my pet Monty's injuries and whatnot, but she passed away shortly after. A month before she died she broke her...mantis fingers (I think they're called Tarsi?), but I'm not sure how. One day I found one of the fingers stiff at a 90 degree angle and she would pull away if anyone tried to get near them, and it eventually fell off. Same thing happened to the other tarsi.

I kept her in a cheap terrarrium, but noticed she would often get her tibia jammed in the plastic holes, so I put some mesh/netting all along the roof and sides for her to hang from. Also, she had a tendency to try grabbing at walls and instead fell down. Was it the netting that caused her to break her tarsi, or just the falling?

Also, around the time she broke her tarsi, her mouth turned black. I tried to clean her face with some water but it never went away. Can anyone here tell me what that is?

The diet was purely crickets of varied sizes. She refused to eat superworms.


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## Mantis Man13 (Mar 21, 2015)

Looks like some kind of disease gotten from either the prey or too much humidity. If she got the tarsi stuck badly enough she might have self amputated.


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## Mantis Man13 (Mar 21, 2015)

Or maybe she fell hard on her head and it was damaged?


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## PlayingMantis (Mar 22, 2015)

How old was she at that point? I noticed that some of my T. sinensis would start losing tarsi and bits and pieces of their feet and wings as they aged. Old mantises are more likely to lose their grip and fall. I think it was a good idea for you to place extra netting on the top and sides so she can grip better. From my experience, it's best to use netting that is not so fine that tarsi can easily get stuck. I once had a sub idolo that somehow got her raptorial stuck in the fabric of her net cage and the tarsi that was connected to her raptorial was completely bent out of shape.

I found a rubbery mesh-like material called a "shelf-liner" from the dollar store that really serves its purpose well. I think a similar product would be "carpet liner."

I'm not completely sure about the black mouth. It could be an infection, or maybe dried vomit? If since it's not going away with cleaning, I'm afraid it may be something more serious, like tissue necrosis from injury or infection or maybe just old age (deteriorating immune system)? Just putting some guesses out there. Is she still able to eat or use her mandibles at all?


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## CosbyArt (Mar 22, 2015)

Sorry to hear about your experience, and it was too late to help after joining.

It sounds like Monty lived a long life and it was simply it's time, old age. In some species or cases, the mantis will literately fall apart as you described, often with black discoloration appearing.

Usually damage to the legs is caused by them getting caught in openings (especially very fine mesh, or overly large holes too). By you adding the mesh it should prevent any problems for future mantises (is it by chance a cricket keeper style enclosure with the large slotted openings near the top? If so it is a common problem with that enclosure.)

Eyes that are permanently black are often caused by damage from the enclosure where the mantis has rubbed it's eyes on something in the tank; however, there are other instances where there are unknown factors that cause it too. It can affect vision making the mantis nearly blind, or it is merely cosmetic.

Here are a few other threads with similar issues http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=32836 http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=30975



PlayingMantis said:


> Just putting some guesses out there. Is she still able to eat or use her mandibles at all?


Read the first sentence...

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Monty said:


> So I signed up for this site a while back to ask about my pet Monty's injuries and whatnot, *but she passed away* shortly after.


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## Monty (Mar 22, 2015)

Thanks a lot for the input, guys. I'm glad to know it's likely her problems came naturally and not from improper care or anything like that. She's dead now but she was able to eat. And yeah the plastic roof has the rectangular grid in it. Monty's eyes always shifted between black to brownish-beige or whatever color her body is supposed to be. I read somewhere that this could be like dilating pupils in humans or dehydration, but I soaked the tank constantly because I didn't know how much water mantises needed, so I would annoy her with a spray bottle until she sucked water droplets off the bend in her arm.

Also, since I plan to get another mantis in a while, can mantids be taught to fly more often? She's only flown twice, once when she suddenly decided to be brave and leap onto my laptop, and another time when prompted to climb a hand that was just barely out of arm's reach. It'd be pretty cool if I could see the wings in action.


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## Domanating (Mar 22, 2015)

Yup, as CosbyArt says, those are all clear signs of aging.

The black spot on the mouth is probably what we call "the black death", which is basically some kind of necrosis that sets in due to a weakened immune system.

Personally I never seen it happen in the mouth but once it sets in, death is usually near. You can extend their lifetime a bit if the black death gets a limb and you amputate it but generally speaking, if the immune system starts failing, probably all organs will fail soon as well.

Don't expect this to be the rule for old age, though. I've had many old mantids that never loss any bit of a limb and never showed any clear signs of problems, simply dying of old age.


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## Sticky (Mar 22, 2015)

One of my old girls lost the use of her mouth. The joints of her mandables froze up. And another had a very painful mouth, she would pull away if I tried to get her to eat or drink. It was different than the "I dont want any more water" pulling away. Her mouth was turning dark.

Yes I know, there is a ton of disagreements about them feeling pain, but the way she moved made it clear to me that her mouth was very sore. I put both of them in the freezer.


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## [email protected] (Mar 26, 2015)

With my first mantis, I thought giving her exercise was a good idea. I did try to get her to fly by throwing her up in the air on to the bed. (before she was pregnant). She ended up loosing her legs. I did not realize how sensitive their little bodies are. I wouldn't recommend trying to make the females fly. In my experience, the females will fly if they want to! (of course the males will always fly).


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## PlayingMantis (Apr 2, 2015)

oops! I misread. Somehow I thought the mantis that died was another mantis and the one in the picture was your current mantis, haha.

Anyways, sounds like she lived a good long life and you took good care of her. It's always sad when mantises pass.


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