# Mantid identification



## Rex Sumner (Sep 23, 2005)

In Southern France the text books i have checked show two species - the common mantis and another wonderful species that looks like an alien.

We have found both these plus a third, a grass mantid that is without the black armpit marks of the common mantis and a fraction of the size. They are fully mature at 1.5", and apart from the size they are identical to the large mantis and share the same habitat - all three can be found in the same area, though the mini ones tend to be in the grass and the other two in the bushes.

Can anyone identify or tell me anything about these mini mantids?

Thanks


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## DMJ (Sep 23, 2005)

Do you have pictures of them? its pretty hard to tell by just words. Welcome to the forum! I'm David.


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## Rex Sumner (Sep 23, 2005)

Hi David,

No pics i am afraid, though i may be able to get some - I just have trouble getting them on the web!

However these are IDENTICAL to the common mantid, just missing the black patch on the high upper arm, but they dont go green and stay the colour of dead grass - and they dont reach more than 1.5". I cannot find any reference to small mantids in France - as I said I can only find the two species listed, so I am wondering if these are an example of dwarfism (which would seem strange as there are plenty reaching full size) or a separate sub-species.

We have seen them mate and actually have an ootheca - whether or not it is fertile is another matter.


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## Jwonni (Sep 23, 2005)

> No pics i am afraid, though i may be able to get some - I just have trouble getting them on the web!


if ya wanna e-mail me a picture and i'll see if i can host it for ya

[email protected]


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## Christian (Sep 23, 2005)

Hi.

In fact, there are several mantid species in France:

_Mantis religiosa_: European mantid, well known

_Iris oratoria_: smaller, in hot habitats, hindwings colored, wings of female shorter than abdomen

_Empusa pennata_: the "alien" one, nice guys

_Ameles decolor_: probably the one you found, females with short wings, usually brown and about 2,5-3 cm long

_Ameles spallanziana_: rarer, somewhat similar to _decolor_, females stouter, carrying their abdomen like a larva over the pronotum; this one may be green or brown

_Geomantis larvoides_: of the size of _Ameles_, grey, on the ground, both sexes wingless as adults; rare

_Perlamantis alliberti_: forget this one: very, very rare, resembles a stonefly, belongs to a more basal mantid taxon.

Regards,

Christian


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## DMJ (Sep 23, 2005)

Christian rocks in all his posts lol


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## Ian (Sep 23, 2005)

I know...hes to good, lol If in doubt....ask chrisitan  

Cheers,

Ian


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## Jesse (Sep 23, 2005)

Check this site out for some pics of a few of the above mentioned species

http://www.isopoda.net


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## LGMS (Sep 23, 2005)

> However these are IDENTICAL to the common mantid, just missing the black patch on the high upper arm


Hi Rex, I read your post earlier today before I happened to find a mantid that has one black patch on each front leg about where they join to the thorax area. The mantid measures 2 3/8".

This one is rather docile &amp; easy to handle and stays put, he rarely moves around and will sit in my hand all day - nothing like my Chinese mantids. Have yet to see or be able to make him fly.

Is this typical European mantid temperament? Anyone have info on how common they might be in NJ? Also, anyone have a good pic posted somewhere and a pic of the ooth's so I have a better idea of what to look for.

I don't want to keep him if he won't be able to mate in captivity, rather let him go back to the environment I found him in where he'll have a chance of finding a female.

Rgds,

Louis


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