# How does a mantis know where the head of an insect is?



## AFK

Does it also know where the head of a fish or a mouse is? I saw a video of a mantis killing a live mouse and it went for the head/neck area. Then there was Rick's pic of a mantis eating a fish, but if the fish was already dead, it may be because the prey needs to be alive for the mantis to know where the head is. But still, how does it KNOW where the head is? This is an instinctive creature of low intelligence...how does it know?


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## Ian

Yes, I have noticed this. What I have read is that they prey on the neck first, so to paralyze whatever they are eating, which really does make sense. But I am not sure how they know.


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## Rib

There alot to be said for instinct. Did you know what when a woman is pregnant she can get cravings for coal or chalk even though she's never eaten the stuff before (obviously) if they are lacking minerals. weird.


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## nympho

hi.

I've never seen it, at least in the ones i've kept.

From what i've seen, at least half the time, they just start eating whichever part 'comes to hand' first, so can end up devouring the abdomen end first and the head end last, or the upperside or underside first, with the poor creature remaining alive and kicking the whole time. This could be bad in that it may attract a bird or other predator, but if it did try to find the head it may take longer anyway, counteracting any potential advantage.

On the other hand, messing around trying to find the head end may give the prey a chance to wriggle free or sting, so on balance it probably makes sense overall just start eating as fast a possible; the results the same for the mantis! Unless you saw the mantis turn the prey and search for the head end it was probably just how the mantis grabbed the prey that time.

I've have however read they do this, but it was probably only in a general sort insect book and the author had probably not actually observed it himself. I guess its just one of those myths about mantises, like flower mantises sitting around on flowers specifically (which would imply they have the ability to keep searching selectively to find new flowers which by their nature only last a short time). but thats another issue.


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## Lukony

Half the time my mantids catch something and will just start gnawing wherever. I say that because sometimes they will catch coconut husk along with the cricket and start eating the husk. I think the only way they know is by the insect biting on the mantid.


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## julian camilo

if you watch them as they catch a fly for example, they dont just snap forwards, grab, and snap back, often theres a lot of flapping about before they settle and start eating. this only takes like half a second but it always ends in the mantis starting eating the thorax or head of the fly. ive NEVER seen a mantis catch a fly of its own accord and start eating the abdomen first (and if it was random, youd think theyd start with this part first at least sometimes as its the largest overall part, so has more of a chance in a random situation). but i dont think its random, i do think there is some repositioning involved during that split second capture. as for how they know which bit is which, i have no idea, im quite interested.

edit: i dont mean to so0und like i know for a fact, its just what ive seen.


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## Rick

I also usually see them just start munching on whatever part of the food is closest to their mouth. I don't think they go for the neck or anything like that.


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## Ian

From http://www.insecta-inspecta.com/mantids/praying/



> The prey probably won't escape because the forelegs are so strong and armed with overlapping spines. The mantid bites the neck of its prey to paralyze it and begins to devour it. The mantis almost always starts eating the insect while it's still alive, and almost always starts eating from the insect's neck. This way, the mantis makes sure that the insect's struggle stops quickly.


From http://www.thebigzoo.com/Animals/Praying_Mantis.asp



> Once they grab hold of it they bite the prey’s neck to paralyze it.


From http://www.hedonistica.com/archives/2005/0...ying_mantis.php



> The mantid bites the neck of its prey to paralyze it and begins to devour it.


These are just a few of articles from the many online, that describe this tactic used by most mantids.


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## Rick

> From http://www.insecta-inspecta.com/mantids/praying/
> 
> 
> 
> The prey probably won't escape because the forelegs are so strong and armed with overlapping spines. The mantid bites the neck of its prey to paralyze it and begins to devour it. The mantis almost always starts eating the insect while it's still alive, and almost always starts eating from the insect's neck. This way, the mantis makes sure that the insect's struggle stops quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> From http://www.thebigzoo.com/Animals/Praying_Mantis.asp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once they grab hold of it they bite the prey’s neck to paralyze it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From http://www.hedonistica.com/archives/2005/0...ying_mantis.php
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The mantid bites the neck of its prey to paralyze it and begins to devour it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These are just a few of articles from the many online, that describe this tactic used by most mantids.
Click to expand...

What does that prove? I can pull up a quote off the internet saying the earth is flat too. Most of what I have read is not accurate regarding mantids. In my observations they start eating whatever part is closest to them without ever starting off by biting the neck. You should know that biting an insects "neck" or even removing it's head does not paralyze it. With mantids we're talking about an insect here, not a lion. I also just threw a cricket to my african and guess what part she starting eating first? The knee joint of the back leg! No neck biting.


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## Ian

Well if you have a look how many articles online discuss this, one can automatically think that it is infact true. The way this "idea" is spread, is not like some deceased tale like your example of the earth being flat. Maybe this is not the instinct they use every time when eating prey...but I will try and take a video next time I see mine feeding from the neck.


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## AFK

good stuff, guys. good points on both sides. i haven't had a mantis for a long time, but want to get back into it (main issue is scaring away my girlfriends lol), but some points to consider:

1. if the mantis just starts eating at whatever positions is most convenient (randomly), how does it consistently avoid getting stung by bees and wasps? or how does it consistently avoid getting bitten by spiders?

2. if the mantis does deliberately start eating at a specific location, how does it know where? e.g. the head, the fangs, the stinger, etc.


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## AFK

regarding finding sites that claim that mantids go for the neck...

it sounds like something that should be taken with a grain of salt. it's one of those things that "make sense" and so is EASILY passed around as fact when in fact it could just be a myth. sorta like how tons of sites say to add vinegar when washing clothes to preserve the color...on a very very few websites will tell you that this is a myth. so yeah, you gotta love the net. whenever i read something like that, i need footnotes or something that tell me where they got that information from in the first place or if it's just something they read on another site and assumed it was true.


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## jandl2204

In terms of online communities and care sheets, etc. they are often composed using observations academic text and information which someone/people have collected over time. This should not be dismissed as some of the information you come across is inaccurate or often just incoherent babble for some misguided teenager.

My observation has been that when a mantis nymph to adult strikes prey that is relatively not dangerous to the mantis then it will devour whatever part it has caught without any 'thought' as to what part it is eating. However this is not typical behaviour, i have seen even fruit fly and housefly delicately moved around positioned so that the mantid is able to bit into the creature neck.

I have noticed that when prey which could be considered harmful such as a cricket, locust and/or a stinging creature, that the mantis will strike at it and quickly position themselves in such a was as to enable them to chew thought its neck.

These are personal observations and i do spent a un healthy amount of time admiring there behaviour. In terms of evolution an innate set of behaviours are like to have developed to enhance the mantids survival. Having the instinct to bit though prey's necks to disable them (cutting the cns ~central nervous system~) not only means less energy is expanded in capturing and eating prey but the likelihood of the mantis being injured is also reduced. Though off point buy honey bees make use of a distinctive dance as to alert other hive members as to where some abundant nectar may be this is another example of an innate behaviour. Such examples and the reasoning behind this can be applied to this area.

Though this is my opinion i have not read enough academic text to back this up though i am sure if you look hard enough and observe such behaviour my opinion and the limited biological point i made seem to apply quite nicely.

Regards.

Lee


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## Lukony

I think the mantis just goes and attacks the most active parts of the body. Like Rick was saying, his mantid would go for the crickets legs. Mine do the same thing because they might lose the food if the cricket kept using it's hind legs. Other times I have seen crickets start biting on my mantids and instantly the mantid will go for the head. I have no idea about bees or spiders. The only thing I can think of is that they just go for the most active parts that they see.


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## jandl2204

But that would be the point i what i was trying to get across, the mantis would have an innate drive which would make it bit into the crickets neck so paralysing it. Biting off the animals legs does not prevent the mantid from being bitten. Rather it would be counter productive, removing part of the prey which could be fed upon, as i am assuming that the mantid would discard some parts of the prey in order to prevent it from getting away.

Lee


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## Rib

I think this answers any questions


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## Ian

Cheers Rob


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## 13ollox

i just observed my mantis catch a cric and eat it ! it just chowed down on its abdomen 1st , then the cric kicked its face and things but she just bit its leg off after about the 5th time and carried on eating the abdomen after that , the head was the very last piece that got eaten ! maybe different species do different capture techniques ? this was a female membranacea sub adult !

Edit 1: just fed her another and exactly the same thing . i remember my polyspilota used to actually bite the neck and things before chowing down on anything else .

Edit 2 : just fed my male membrancea a cric also and he went straight for the neck untill he had chewed its head off ! so a variety of results !

Neil


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## PlasticMonkey

I just fed my chinese mantis a caterpiller, and she started by munching on what was closest... until the 'piller decided to chomp on her forearm! She took care of that problem (chewed on the 'piller's head for a bit), then went back to the part she had been eating.

I guess it just depends on where they can bite first, or whatever.


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## Rick

Several examples here from our members of my point. Some people just think too much into this type of stuff. It's kinda like how many sources say the female always eats the male which we all know is not true. I don't care what anybody says, they don't instictively go for the neck in order to paralyze their prey. They just eat it alive. Sometimes they just might start eating at the neck first but it doesn't mean they are trying to paralyze the food.


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## jandl2204

I thinks it is reasonable to assume that this should come to an end concluding we have our opinions.

I would be happy to discuss such a point even if my view was in the minority.

Lee


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## AFK

thanks guys. this answers my question. i also rewatched techuser's hilarious video and it showed various mantises eating different parts of the different insects. but 13ollox's post really confirmed it by observing the mantis eating the same kind of prey (NOT pray lol).

i think it's also safe to assume that mantids don't have a special method of catching and subduing dangerous prey, e.g. bees, wasps, spiders. what probably ends up happening is that the mantis usually has such a tight and vast grip of the prey that it can't sting or bite. i'm sure accidents happen though...just not often observed.


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## Christian

Hi.

The tactics used by the mantid depends to a certain extent on prey size. Larger prey which defends itself strongly, is usually eaten first by the neck. Smaller prey which causes no problems, is randomly eaten. How the mantis knows where the head is: they have a variety of instinctive "pictures" in their "brain" of how prey should look and move like. Certain forms elicit a stronger prey capture response as others. How can an empusid, e.g., distinguish between so-called "flying insects" and others, catching only the first, even when they do not fly?

There are not as simple creatures as one may think!

Christian


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## Rick

I still maintain that it is totally random. Here is a pic of large mantis eating equally large prey in the form of another mantis. So by your theory this mantis should consider this prey large and dangerous and eat it by the neck. However as you see it started eating it down near the end of the thorax near the base of the wings. This was not done intentionally either in case anyone asks. They were both out of cages for cleaning and the chinese decided to roam around and got caught.


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## Johnald Chaffinch

i reckon if they see an insect moving and can position themselves right that SOME mantids will attempt to eat the head and neck area first.

they definitely arent going at random


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## julian camilo

i was watching my wahlbergii L1 as i was worried if they would be able to handle the d.hydei i gave them, and when i saw them catch one, they kind of just pinned it to the floor and began eating anywhere, it looked like the end of the thorax/beginning of abdomen (pretty much halfway). i dont think it had the capability to reposition it or start by eating the neck/head, the hydei is almost the same size as it. ive seen this also with older wahlbergii. they are known for attacking and eating prey their size or even bigger. when ive seen them do this, they havent gone for the head or neck i dont think, they just seem to start eating halfway between their forearms ie. directly in front of them, as the prey is so big.

however, watching my gongylus, whenever they catch a fly (very small compared to the gongs size), they never simply snap forward, grab, and snap back, there always seems to be (what LOOKS to me) as some repositioning. however this could be due to the fly struggling and the mantis trying to get a better grip on it too. but with gongs and flies, they always start eating the head or thorax, i have seen. maybe its because they can afford to, in terms of size of prey compared to their size and the size of their forearms. i think if a mantis were to attack another mantis of a similar size, itd be pretty difficult for it to go to all the trouble of repositioning, or reaching round to eat the head first, so they just eat whats there in front of them.

this is just what ive seen.


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## Rick

They do reposition a lot of times. But I haven't seen them reposition just to get at the neck.


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## Christian

Hi.

The term "neck" must not be taken categorically. Usually, they try to chew on the first third of the body first, what should be sufficient to immobilize the prey soon. Mantids are often eaten first by the prothorax-mesothorax junction to keep the forelegs of the prey out of reach. Of course this does not happen everytime, but often enough to be of a likelihood of more than 50%.

Drosophila are not a really dangerous prey for a mantis.

Regards,

Christian


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## yen_saw

Based on my observation, most of the time mantis will go for the thorax because they have a good grip of a large prey holding the head and abdomen part, but it is not necessary going to one specific part of body once the prey is secured, sometimes they will for legs, wings, or even abdomen first.


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## bruty2fruity

all my mantises eat from anywhere. never always one space. i spose it depends on how stron the prey is to them. ie if it struggles kill it quick if it dont do as u please


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## Orin

It is random.

The reason some prey is eaten from different directions sometimes at higher percentates has to do with the direction a type of prey moves in relation to the mantis rather than some idea that the mantis decides where it would like to take a bite. Keep in mind prey moving towards a mantis is more likely to be going head first than running backwards. Matching up unrelated results is a dangerous pitfall of logic.



> Hi.The term "neck" must not be taken categorically. Usually, they try to chew on the first third of the body first, what should be sufficient to immobilize the prey soon. Mantids are often eaten first by the prothorax-mesothorax junction to keep the forelegs of the prey out of reach. Of course this does not happen everytime, but often enough to be of a likelihood of more than 50%.
> 
> Drosophila are not a really dangerous prey for a mantis.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Christian


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## AFK

also, i think mantids may be repositioning their food just to get a spot on its prey where there aren't busy moving parts that would block the mantis's way. hence if legs are sticking up and kicking into the mantid's face, the mantis would reposition the prey so the legs are no longer kicking in its way.


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## Johnald Chaffinch

it's kind of similar to when a big cat goes for the neck to suffocate it's prey, it's the easiest way to immobilize the whole animal. i suppose they've evolved to instinctively go for that area, more often than not, because the ones that have were more successful.

i find it surpising how many people think it's random. it shouldnt be too hard to do a test on this (and trying different species)...

Christian do you know if some species do this more than others?


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## Rick

> it's kind of similar to when a big cat goes for the neck to suffocate it's prey, it's the easiest way to immobilize the whole animal. i suppose they've evolved to instinctively go for that area, more often than not, because the ones that have were more successful. i find it surpising how many people think it's random. it shouldnt be too hard to do a test on this (and trying different species)...
> 
> Christian do you know if some species do this more than others?


Thats the thing. You're talking about a highly evolved animal (cat) who does go for the neck. When you feed your mantids just take note of what they do.


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## Christian

Hi.

Obviously we do not achieve a consense on this.  

I made enough observations to rely on my opinion that prey is reajusted more often than in half of all cases when prey is big. I cannot accept the argument that



> the reason some prey is eaten from different directions sometimes at higher percentates has to do with the direction a type of prey moves in relation to the mantis rather than some idea that the mantis decides where it would like to take a bite. Keep in mind prey moving towards a mantis is more likely to be going head first than running backwards


, as prey is reajusted *after* the strike, regardless of which direction it aprroached or was grabbed. I did not observe any differences between species egarding this issue, what does not mean, however, that there may not be such differences.So, everyone of us has made several good observations to underline his arguments. Only a study including statistical analysis could clarify this point satifactorily.

Regards,

Christian


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## Rick

I recognize mantids readjust their prey for various reasons however I argue the point that they go for the "neck" in order to paralyze prey. There may be many things we do not agree on but debating it in a friendly discussion is always good.


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## Johnald Chaffinch

also, dont mantids snip the wings off butterflies and moths, in the same kind of instinctive way?


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## Rick

> also, dont mantids snip the wings off butterflies and moths, in the same kind of instinctive way?


No.


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## rickyc666

my mantids just catch and eat prey any way it comes. the same applies to my orchids except for bees. every time i give them bees, they seem to catch them sideways or turn them sideways instantly as if to avoid being stung. maybe it has something to do with the black and yellow colouring that warns other animals the bee is poisonous.

but this is just a personal observation, it would be good to know for sure.


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## 13ollox

mine just eat away till they eat through the bit that holds the wings on then the wings just fall to the ground . they dont " Snip " them off . they dont eat them because they have no nutritinal value compared to the rest of the meal ! well thats what ive observed for 4 months !

Neil


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## rickyc666

I know this slightly veers from the point but one of you guys mentioned statistical analysis and it reminded me of something i read in a book (grasshoppers and mantids of the world).

A study was mentioned where mantids were fed bad tasting milkweed bugs (if i remember correctly) in which the mantis would disgard the bug after a few bites. Then, non bad-tasting beetles of similar size were painted with the same colouration as the milkweed bugs and the mantis ignored them.

Obviously this is only from someone elses studies and documentation but it would suggest that they have a basic capacity to learn.


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## rickyc666

p.s. thats a cool article in the link ian posted where the mantid ate the hummingbird.

It makes you realise how strong insects are for their size.

Poor bird though. :shock: thats life...


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## nympho

i think i may have sussed why some people have observed them targeting the head area. The mantis presumably has sensors on its legs that can tell when the prey is not gripped properly, ie when the bigger part of it is flapping around and not properly secured. It would just have to compare signals from each leg to know the direction of this movement. The motion thus analized, if too large, simply stimulates a change of grip to grap the part that's moving too much, which of course will likely be the thorax/head end rather than the abdomen. It may then start feeding there.

This may explain why it may APPEAR like the mantis can recognise the head end by it BEING the head end and not simply it being the part struggling most. In large dangerous victims, when the mantis is likely to start off grabbing hold with both legs of one half or the other, if it grips the abdomen end first it may need to shift its grip to the front later. On small victims, its original grip will most likely control its whole body, so there is no loose part that needs to be 'captured', hence the observations that they start feeding anywhere in some instances.

sorry if ive duplicated anyones idea, i have not gone through every post yet. cheers


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