# *Red Alert for all exotic pet keepers in us*



## Griever (Apr 6, 2009)

There is a Congressional Hearing on April 23 that could result in the banning of ALL non-native species (exotic pets)

We can thank all those Animal rights exteremists for this bill :angry: I just learned of this bill today.....did anyone else know about this? This is going to be devastating for those small business owners! Does H.R. 669 even have a chance of passing?

I think i might hold off on that purchase of that new baby day gecko &lt;_&lt; 

heres a youtube video with more information*warning it has music*


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## lectricblueyes (Apr 6, 2009)

Griever said:


> There is a Congressional Hearing on April 23 that could result in the banning of ALL non-native species (exotic pets)We can thank all those Animal rights exteremists for this bill :angry: I just learned of this bill today.....did anyone else know about this? This is going to be devastating for those small business owners! Does H.R. 669 even have a chance of passing?
> 
> I think i might hold off on that purchase of that new baby day gecko &lt;_&lt;
> 
> heres a youtube video with more information*warning it has music*


We need to find the person ultimately in charge of writing this bill and/or getting it passed. We need to get to that persons home and drop as many mantid's, spiders, and roaches into their home!


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## bassist (Apr 6, 2009)

Orin told me about this a while ago I really hope it does not pass.


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## PhilinYuma (Apr 6, 2009)

Griever said:


> There is a Congressional Hearing on April 23 that could result in the banning of ALL non-native species (exotic pets)
> 
> We can thank all those Animal rights exteremists for this bill :angry: I just learned of this bill today.....did anyone else know about this? This is going to be devastating for those small business owners! Does H.R. 669 even have a chance of passing?
> 
> ...


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## PhilinYuma (Apr 6, 2009)

LectricBlueyes said:


> We need to find the person ultimately in charge of writing this bill and/or getting it passed. We need to get to that persons home and drop as many mantid's, spiders, and roaches into their home!


It's a long walk to Guam! And if this issue is so important to you, why don't you know her name already? The poor dear does not even represent a state, but a congressional district! She's still trying to get revenge on the brown tree snakes brought to Guam sixty years ago! She is not our most influentiial congressperson.

I'm sorry if I sound seriously irritated by all this, but I am a Resident Alien, and if I have an idea of what's going on, why don't citizens who hold the power of their vote?


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## Christian (Apr 6, 2009)

While there are some instances of released pets leading to established populations (see the pythons in Florida...), most so-called "dangerous", i. e. invasive species of North America were introduced either incidentally or purposely by 1. agroforestry companies and instititions, 2. ballast waters of ships, 3. hunters or, as in case of the brown snake, the 4. US army. Of course it's much simpler to blame the hobbyists...  Feed the masses, and you'll win elections...

We have a similar discussion over here, mostly set in place by radical animal rights activists. Unfortunately, some politicians are stupid enough to follow their advices. Some regional laws already exist which restrict the keeping and breeding of "dangerous" (in this case to humans) species. Their list is somewhat ridiculous. It's in fact just a combination of stupidity, idioty and "feeding the masses". By the way, such oh so cool stupid youtube videos showing animals fighting against each other also helped those parties very much. At least in this case the hobbyists should look in a mirror and admit that it was partially their own fault. This applies also very much to all those releasing turtles, snakes or bull-frogs where they don't belong to!


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## Rob Byatt (Apr 6, 2009)

Christian said:


> By the way, such oh so cool stupid youtube videos showing animals fighting against each other also helped those parties very much. At least in this case the hobbyists should look in a mirror and admit that it was partially their own fault.


I couldn't have said it better myself Christian. I've always said this will be the biggest threat to this hobby, particularly when it involves invertebrates eating vertebrates.


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## Morpheus uk (Apr 6, 2009)

Damn right, solfugids eating lizards, orchid mantids eating fish for example &lt;_&lt;


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## Rick (Apr 6, 2009)

This is no good. While I agree that we shouldn't be collecting certain species from the wild to become pets I do not agree with the rest. However there is a problem in FL with non native species.


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## Orin (Apr 6, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> [... both are using "scare tactics" to get people like yourself, Griever to panic. ...gecko would be exempt, so enjoy. In fact, buy a pair, and make a fortune when the ban goes into effect!


PIJAC is understating the frightening aspects of the proposed bill. Every animal not on the 'good list' shipped across state lines or *bred *would incur a prison term of up to five years per animal using the Lacey Act. Definitive evidence would be required to prove the gecko was purchased prior. This would include most aquarium fish and many other pets as each species would require a large fee to be considered for listing.

PIJAC says the main organizations pushing the bill are the Humane Society and The Nature Conservancy. I imagine a lot of animal lovers who donate to these organizations don't realize what they're giving to.


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## cloud jaguar (Apr 6, 2009)

This sounds like more unenforceable bs to me. Yeah, lets fire all the border patrol and homeland security and make them all Pet Police! That's should be our REAL priority in these challenging times (not) - i hope a brown snake bites that legislator from Guam right on her big butt! Also, why is the Humane Society working on passing this? Shouldnt they be busy euthenizing dogs or something?


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## PhilinYuma (Apr 6, 2009)

I know that this is a mantis forum, and not primarily concerned with reptiles, but doesn't anyone want to do anything about this except complain? Everyone knows (should know, they told you in High School!) that most bills that are introduced are never passed, particularly one like this, from a minor committee (five Democratic members are not even state congresspersons, but represent various American colonies! :lol: ) that is opposed by a biggish industry. Also, they will find it hard to offer telling evidence to the hearing. That doesn't mean that you should sit on your hands, though. If you really care, do something!

Start by going here: http://www.arbreptiles.com/lastword/legislation.shtml !

One thing that I don't think is mentioned on the site. At the moment, it is not a good idea to send Emails to Washington. Write, fax or phone, instead.

Actually, Arkanis, illegal importation of reptiles (more common than you might think, right, Orin?) already falls under the jurisdiction of ICE, even if the contraband is discovered by F&amp;W. This law would close down reptile dealers but would be next to impossible to enforce on a one-to-one basis except that without dealer support the hobby would eventually dty up.


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## Emile.Wilson (Apr 6, 2009)

That sounds bad, i am not sure about canada but i know mantids and roaches are banned. Even though i have both  shhhhhhhhhhhh


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## Orin (Apr 7, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> I know that this is a mantis forum, and not primarily concerned with reptiles


The law includes all animals: tropical fish, mantids, reptiles, etc. It doesn't have to be 'enforceable' if they toss a few people in jail for twenty years as examples.


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## cloud jaguar (Apr 7, 2009)

This is what happens when non-lawyers write legislation. I expect this law would have the unintended consequence of encouraging mass release of exotic pets into suburbs and city parks! brilliant...


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## PhilinYuma (Apr 7, 2009)

Orin said:


> The law includes all animals: tropical fish, mantids, reptiles, etc. It doesn't have to be 'enforceable' if they toss a few people in jail for twenty years as examples.


We're on the same side on this one, Orin!


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## Christian (Apr 7, 2009)

C'mon guys, if someone is sent to jail for 20 years because he had 4 mantids you will certainly have more serious problems over there than pet keeping...


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## ABbuggin (Apr 7, 2009)

Christian said:


> C'mon guys, if someone is sent to jail for 20 years because he had 4 mantids you will certainly have more serious problems over there than pet keeping...


LOL very true. :lol:


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## nasty bugger (Apr 7, 2009)

C'mon, that legislator just wants and expenses paid trip to 'research ' these animals in their native habitat, of course.

Wouldn't you like a paid vacation to some island or somewhere that still has native wildlife [SIZE=18pt]?[/SIZE]


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## Rick (Apr 7, 2009)

Christian said:


> C'mon guys, if someone is sent to jail for 20 years because he had 4 mantids you will certainly have more serious problems over there than pet keeping...


I could see that taking place. Can't worry about the real criminals.


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## PhilinYuma (Apr 7, 2009)

Christian said:


> C'mon guys, if someone is sent to jail for 20 years because he had 4 mantids you will certainly have more serious problems over there than pet keeping...


No one mentioned "four mantids," Christian. Probably closer to five or six.

You are apparently unfamiliar with the capriciosness of American justice. This from the (Texas) Herald Banner last year:

"Whittaker was found guilty in the 196th District Court in April 2007 of possession of between one and four grams of cocaine in a Drug Free Zone. The next day the same jury sentenced Whittaker to 85 years in the Texas Department of Criminal Justice-Institutional Division."

The sentence doesn't really get stiff until you are caught with 5+ grams, and charged as a dealer! :angry: 

In California, under the "three strikes" law, Leandro Andrade, recieved two successive sentences for shoplifting nine DVDs from two stores. He recieved 50 yrs to life. The ruling was appealed to the Supreme Court, who upheld it in 2003.

On second thoughts, 20 years for four mantids doesn't seem unlikely at all!


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## Christian (Apr 7, 2009)

:blink: Ok, you *have* more serious problems than pet-keeping...

Some people should be taught what commensurability means. Incredible.


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## Morpheus uk (Apr 10, 2009)

I reckon we should have your death sentence over here but those sentences are a little tight :lol:


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 10, 2009)

:blink: I gotta say it... kill someone and u get maybe 3 years, jaywalk and u r put away for life! &lt;_&lt;


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## rayg (Apr 11, 2009)

Arkanis said:


> - i hope a brown snake bites that legislator from Guam right on her big butt! Also, why is the Humane Society working on passing this? Shouldnt they be busy euthenizing dogs or something?


Just for the record the brown snakes have pretty much wiped out the bird life on Guam(extinction is not funny), that is until they get the European house sparrows out there. There are thousands of non-native species here in North America and most fall into some kind of balance, and it's only a few that wreak havock, but man is it bad when they do. Most of the really bad ones sneak over in wood pallets and boxes or ballast water right under homeland security's nose. We need those cheap Asian imports. Us white folk may be the worst of the invasive species though.

I agree that this kind of generalized uneducated reactionary legislation is bad, it wittles away at the already diminishing rights that we have in this county, but at the end of the day we are the ones responsible for what happens in this county. Like Phil said it is not hard to get in touch your Congressman/woman.

Ray


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