# Sudden Adult Death Syndrome



## Curiosity (Dec 27, 2021)

Seems like it's a new thing every year. Last year, I lost most of my nymphs to the same disease. This year, only one nymph died that way, but I kept finding my adults (all European) dead at random. No sign that anything had been wrong with them. I just woke up in the morning and they were dead without any sign of injury, infection or parasite after being perfectly healthy the night before. What was going on?


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## The Wolven (Jan 5, 2022)

Could it possibly be due to the genetic line? Are all of European mantises from the same line? What are you feeding them? It's also possible a disease from your feeders could be passing on to them.


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## Curiosity (Jan 5, 2022)

It can't be the genetic line. Those mantises were all caught in the wild as adults. (That might actually be the problem. Maybe there was some sort of parasite infesting our backyard this year.) And I was feeding them from the same stash of mealworms I was feeding the nymphs, none of whom died this way. But thanks anyway


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## guapoalto049 (Jan 10, 2022)

Europeans do very poorly in captivity, and they are surprisingly hard to breed despite being a native species. 
 

Its impossible to diagnose cause of death in mantises, but I have never had good results with mealworms as feeders. 

Could it be the feeders were tainted when you start losing the mantises? For example, last year you lost nymphs because the feeders at that time were bad and this year the adults got the bad batch?


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## agent A (Jan 11, 2022)

guapoalto049 said:


> Europeans do very poorly in captivity, and they are surprisingly hard to breed despite being a native species.
> 
> 
> Its impossible to diagnose cause of death in mantises, but I have never had good results with mealworms as feeders.
> ...


THANK YOU! I find very high i1 mortality, even in cages with live plants and an LED light over them. I wonder if they need (either or both) UV light or day/night temperature shift. I'm not really sure. When we (my lab and I) had to mass-produce ooths, we would catch presub/sub nymphs in the field because by then, they were easy enough to keep alive

I should also tell the OP, I on occasion get adults molt to adult and then die a few days to a week later. I suspect that something internally went wrong with the molt (remember that inner linings are also shed and there are expansions in there that need to happen) and that caused the death. It doesn't happen all that frequently (maybe 1 out of every 200 final molts that appear otherwise normal, and usually affecting females), but it is something to keep in mind


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## Curiosity (Jan 13, 2022)

@guapoalto049Thanks. In particular, thanks for reminding me of just how tricky Europeans are. But no, it couldn't have been the food. I was feeding them all out of the same batch. Eh. What you said about Europeans being hard to keep in captivity is quite helpful though


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## The Wolven (Jan 14, 2022)

@Curiosity I would still switch feeders since mealworms are not the most nutritious. It might help increase their survival chances. Flies and roaches are one of the much better feeders to use. You can easily breed your own roach colony as well.


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## agent A (Jan 15, 2022)

The Wolven said:


> @Curiosity I would still switch feeders since mealworms are not the most nutritious. It might help increase their survival chances. Flies and roaches are one of the much better feeders to use. You can easily breed your own roach colony as well.


not to mention that the larval stage of any holometabolous insect has a pretty low protein:fat ratio compared to the adult, and mantises primarily need protein. they aren't bad if not used as a staple, but they aren't a good staple


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## Curiosity (Jan 15, 2022)

OK Thanks


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## Krissim Klaw (Jan 20, 2022)

If you caught them from the wild as adults, are you sure they aren't passing from old age? I would agree though that mealworms don't make for a good main food choice.


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## Curiosity (Jan 27, 2022)

@Krissim Klaw It's totally possible.


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