# Being a Mantis Breeder...



## blitzmantis (Feb 17, 2008)

To all the Mantid Breeders out there, is breeding mantids:

1. Interesting?

2. Profitable if you sell some of the nymphs?

3. Hard work?

I'm considering breeding and selling but I'm not sure it's all worth it.


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## Andrew (Feb 17, 2008)

Certainly not profitable. You might just make enough to break even. Can be hard work depending on how many you are raising.


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## blitzmantis (Feb 17, 2008)

So why do so many breed them?


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## Andrew (Feb 17, 2008)

Because its fun.


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## obregon562 (Feb 17, 2008)

You can make a profit with enough time, but i dont know of anyone whose entire income depends soley on mantids alone.

Im just starting to breed, and it's because:

a) it's fun

B) you can pocket a few dollars (i think my mantids can pay for a nice dinner every now and again)

c) i enjoy helping out other people and making them happy


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## macro junkie (Feb 17, 2008)

to earn alot of money of it u would have to breed mantids like idols,orhids,,and to make enough money u would have to breed alot..and to breed that much is a full time job..seriously..to breed enough mantids to make a tidy living from it u would be at it all day...im aiming for this..i have a 8ft x 8ft shed thats empty waitingf for me to move in to it..i dont work..so i have alot of time to do it..im just slowly building up my stock..it takes time.my guees is by next year i should have enough breeding that i constantly have nympths and ooths for sale.For me im concentrating on all the flowermantid species..this is what interests me..

so answer to your Q for me is

1.Yes

2.Yes

3.Yes

to breed it takes time and dedication..if your not willing to put 110% in to it i wouldn't bother doing it.if u have a full time job 9-5 mon-fri then u could get away with a few and only breeding for enjoyment but to make money from it u would have to concentrate all your time on it.its alot of work..


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## king_frog (Feb 17, 2008)

Well, breeding, would become your hobby, something you enjoy. And i know for a fact you enjoy mantids  .


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## Gurd (Feb 17, 2008)

1. Yes very interesting, I doubt it's something that you can ever know everything about so you are always learning.

2. No it's more of an odd bonus from your hobby

3. The more you put in the more you get out


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## yen_saw (Feb 17, 2008)

For me it is lot of fun rearing/breeding mantis. I can make more money if i spend the free time working as oil&amp;gas consultant so money making is definately not my priority. It takes lot of effort and time definately. I have seen some people quiting mantis for other less time consuming bugs like tarantula, phasmid, beetles, etc so brace yourself for it if you plan to keep more than 5 species and thrive with them. Nevertheless, this hobby has grown tremendously since this forum started and has definately been promoted well here.

So my answer would be

1. Very

2. Gain some and lose some to people who i have shipped or paid in advance

3. Definately

Just wanna take this opportunity to say that i am not making a living from selling mantis as i have received some PM asking me this question. My full time job from 7:30am to 5:30pm is the one that really put food on the table.


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## blitzmantis (Feb 17, 2008)

Well since I've got no job, 1/4 of the year I'm not going school and I have a lot of free time on my hands, I don't see why I should not breed mantids. I'll start off with something simple (any ideas?) and then try and at least get my money back from all the stuff I buy for my mantids. I'll just try it but it won't ever become a living, just a hobby. Oh, and yes King Frog, if I want a site for selling mantids, you will be the one to make it


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## macro junkie (Feb 17, 2008)

yen_saw said:


> Just wanna take this opportunity to say that i am not making a living from selling mantis as i have received some PM asking me this question. My full time job from 7:30am to 5:30pm is the one that really put food on the table.


omg..u work 7.30-5.30 then u come home and deal with all your mantids..erm..do u ever sleep?lol :lol:


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## macro junkie (Feb 17, 2008)

blitzmantis said:


> Well since I've got no job, 1/4 of the year I'm not going school and I have a lot of free time on my hands, I don't see why I should not breed mantids. I'll start off with something simple (any ideas?) and then try and at least get my money back from all the stuff I buy for my mantids. I'll just try it but it won't ever become a living, just a hobby. Oh, and yes King Frog, if I want a site for selling mantids, you will be the one to make it


well for me i breed them for macro photography..but if i can make a bit of money along the way its all good..if the mantids wasnt worth 1 penny i would still do it..i love the Hobbie so much.


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## Rick (Feb 17, 2008)

I've only made enough money to buy supplies and feeder insects.


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## Hypoponera (Feb 17, 2008)

I am with Rick. The little money I have made is usually spent on the mantids. I use it to buy feeders, supplies and other mantids! I have yet to make enough to cover even the costs of feeders alone. I don't EVER expect to "turn a profit".


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## joossa (Feb 18, 2008)

^Ditto! You need to be a prolific breeder of rare species in order to get what would be considered a decent profit. Even then it still might be difficult. It is important to distinguish hobby from job in this case.

The hobby can be fun and exciting, but it can also be tiresome and time consuming. I grow carnivorous and succulent plants, keep mantids, work, and am a full time university undergrad. Balancing time (and money for that matter) is essential. Overall, I do it because of my love for the bugs!


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## yen_saw (Feb 18, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> omg..u work 7.30-5.30 then u come home and deal with all your mantids..erm..do u ever sleep?lol :lol:


Hardly MJ  Wish there are 48hrs in a day :lol: actually i do get 6-7 hr sleep a day, but the rest of the time pretty occupied.



joossa said:


> Balancing time (and money for that matter) is essential.


THat's it Joossa!! and you are doing one heck of a job yourself too. Keep it up and stay healthy.


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## Mantida (Feb 18, 2008)

Yen, I'm sure you've made TONS in the past four years you've been in mantis.  

It is enjoyable to breed mantids so you don't have to keep buying them. But, sometimes it is hard to sell particular species that seem to have "exhausted" out their popularity. If you don't sell them off quick enough you'll find yourself overrun (which is my situation right now).


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## obregon562 (Feb 18, 2008)

it is all about managment and timing, as previously stated. Like any other money hobby. And making friends doesn't hur either.  

Mantida, what are these "exhausted" species in your opinion? Be interesting to hear from everyone too...


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## Mantida (Feb 18, 2008)

obregon562 said:


> it is all about managment and timing, as previously stated. Like any other money hobby. And making friends doesn't hur either.  Mantida, what are these "exhausted" species in your opinion? Be interesting to hear from everyone too...


I agree, timing is almost everything in this hobby - if you can get a species to reproduce that's in a big boom at the time, you'll make quite a bit.

Right now for me it's P. virescens. Trying to sell them for a month and no luck even at fair prices and lots of advertising at various places.


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## Andrew (Feb 18, 2008)

obregon562 said:


> what are these "exhausted" species in your opinion? Be interesting to hear from everyone too...


Basically any species that Yen was successful with and decided to drop.


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## Mantida (Feb 18, 2008)

Andrew said:


> Basically any species that Yen was successful with and decided to drop.


That's basically almost every species that exists in captivity. :lol:


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## yen_saw (Feb 20, 2008)

Andrew said:


> Basically any species that Yen was successful with and decided to drop.





Mantida said:


> That's basically almost every species that exists in captivity. :lol:


Ok guilty as charged  !!


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## OGIGA (Feb 20, 2008)

Dang it, Yen!! Just kidding.

Maybe Macrojunkie can get the popularity of a species up by taking really good pictures of them. :lol:


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## Morpheus uk (Feb 21, 2008)

I absolutly hate it to be honest

I really like mantids and mantid keeping but trying endlessly to track down mates kinda pisses me off, taht and the fact i can NEVER find and b4&amp;t*rd mates, no female whalbergii, no male indian flower, no male twig, no female wide arm, no female bud wing, no male ghost. Keep getting stuck with @@@@@@ same sex breeding stock :angry: :angry: :angry: 

They ONLY breeding succses ive had is my dead leaves, ghosts, and euchos

Yes, a touchy subject &lt;_&lt;


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## Morpheus uk (Feb 21, 2008)

BTW the reason i breed my inverts is that i think its a shame to have such an incredible and weird pet but then when it dies thats it you`ll never see one again, so i reckon its great breeding cause then you always have some and plus you can make money to get more :lol:


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## macro junkie (Feb 21, 2008)

Morpheus uk said:


> I absolutly hate it to be honestI really like mantids and mantid keeping but trying endlessly to track down mates kinda pisses me off, taht and the fact i can NEVER find and b4&amp;t*rd mates, no female whalbergii, no male indian flower, no male twig, no female wide arm, no female bud wing, no male ghost. Keep getting stuck with @@@@@@ same sex breeding stock :angry: :angry: :angry:
> 
> They ONLY breeding succses ive had is my dead leaves, ghosts, and euchos
> 
> Yes, a touchy subject &lt;_&lt;


i take it u didnt get the popa male from graham like i didnt get the orhid male from him.he said he would after hes used it but that was weeks ago.it dont look very good for me..im gutted..i have a female orhid ready to mate and no male..breeding sucks somtimes!


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## Morpheus uk (Feb 21, 2008)

Ditto

My male popa kicked it 11 days before they were perfectly matable


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## hibiscusmile (Feb 21, 2008)

To all the Mantid Breeders out there, is breeding mantids:

1. Interesting?

2. Profitable if you sell some of the nymphs?

3. Hard work?

I'm considering breeding and selling but I'm not sure it's all worth it.

:blink: [SIZE=12pt]I almost completely missed this post![/SIZE]

Wanna know why?

Cause of #3! I never worked so hard in all me life! Thanks Nick, good thing your are 1000s of miles away! Cause if you were near me I would kick your :angry: . Yea u know.

I have raised two boys, ran a farm alone, worked &amp; still doing the books  alongside my hubby in our Glass business, had a sideline of Resilvering Antique mirrors for 10 years, built our 64 x 40' barn and I don't even remember the rest and I have never worked this hard before in all my life. If I go to bed by 2am I feel lucky :lol: .

# 1, It is very interesting, I am always amazed at what I can do whenever I put my mind to it. I cannot believe I keep these bugs alive for over a year most times and the feeder insects has been a learning experience all in itself!

#1 Again, cause it deserved a full answer, I have loved learning all of this and the best part is the people I meet due to being involved with them. I have always wanted to talk to people all over the world, cause I think the different races and cultures are so interesting ( I think God does too, that is 1 reason why he seperated us at the Tower of Babel) and this has fulfilled that desire. I am meeting people online that I would of never met otherwise.

#2, Don't know yet. But if you divide the hours I put into it by the funds, I probably make 10 cents an hour!  

ps, gotta go, hubby coming up for his Invoices I was supposed to be making while I whiled away my office time here  pss don't tell him!


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## Krissim Klaw (Feb 21, 2008)

Well I'm only into mantises cause their oogly googly bug eyes make me smile. I keep them strictly as pets, and can't imagine where some members on here find the time to raise and keep all the mantises they do at once. I would seriously love to visit some members bug rooms one day and squee at all the tiny clawed mantis goodness.  

Although I know little of trying to profit off of mantises, I would say no to expecting to make a good deal of cash off of them. Of course then again I don't think anyone should get into breeding any kind of animal solely for profit. Things like that are why their so many other genetic riddled animals being put down each year after being popped out of some byb or mill.

I'm curious to those who breed mantises, have any of you worked with developing healthy lines of mantises? Do you cull off lines who die younger or have a higher numbers of ill young? Or do you breed for certain size, temperament, color, ect? Guess I'm kind of curious if there is any planning behind the breedings you choose to do?


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## Christian (Feb 22, 2008)

There were too many posts to answer to all the topics.

So, some general stuff:

If you have to search for mates you do something wrong. It may happen once every few years, but usually a stock should be self-sustaining. Most people don't raise enough numbers. If you are owning one female of this and one male of that species you are not a breeder. Breeders have 10 pairs of this species and, say, 8 of another. This is the most widespread beginner fault. If you want to breed, raise high numbers. If you don't have the space, concentrate on just a few species. If you want more species and you have not enough space, you simply cannot breed regularly. This would lead to an "yes" as answer to question 3.

Be patient! There aren't species which are not popular. The most popular species is always the one which recently vanished from the stock! If you have a species which anyone has, quit selling larvae. Keep enough for your own stock and feed the others to larger mantids. Or kill them otherwise. This sounds cruel, but this is truly breeding reality. What to do with surplus stuff if noone wants it? They just consume space and ressources. I, for instance, will have to kill about 35 adult _Deroplatys_ soon. If you can't manage high numbers, you should better choose another hobby. The point is that the species in stock undergo popularity cycles. What isn't appreciated at moment may be in a year. That's why one has to be patient. Or alternatively, if a species doesn't interest you at all, quit it in favour of another. If you were the last to breed it, hey, who cares? You offered it and noone wanted it. So the answer to question 2 is: not much profitable as such, but sometimes enough to sustain other species.

Question one hasn't really to be answered.


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## tier (Feb 22, 2008)

Hi

I'm sorry Christian, but I cannot help you with your 35 Deroplatys. You know it: I have no place for nothing because of my huge breeding groups. I can only take 2 per week for my geckos  

best regards,

tier

edit:

1:yes

2:no

3:yes, very, but I love it for let's say 50%.


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## Rob Byatt (Feb 22, 2008)

tier said:


> HiI'm sorry Christian, but I cannot help you with your 35 Deroplatys. You know it: I have no place for nothing because of my huge breeding groups. I can only take 2 per week for my geckos
> 
> best regards,
> 
> ...


I have some _Plistospilota guineensis_ with a big appetite


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## Mantida (Feb 23, 2008)

Christian said:


> I, for instance, will have to kill about 35 adult _Deroplatys_ soon.


 :blink: 

That's an awful lot... how many do you have total ?


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## Christian (Feb 23, 2008)

I will retain just the paired ones - not many this time. As I said before, it is the most difficult species I had for years. The unpaired ones are just needless feeders. Well, this species is rather rarely found in collections, so I have a destination for them.


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## macro junkie (Feb 23, 2008)

give them away if u have to many..


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## Christian (Feb 23, 2008)

Noone pays for unfertilized females. And, sincerely, gifts are for friends at Christmas...


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## macro junkie (Feb 23, 2008)

Christian said:


> Noone pays for unfertilized females. And, sincerely, gifts are for friends at Christmas...


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## Kruszakus (Feb 23, 2008)

I thought it would be fun - but I became obsessive about it - I've been spending too much time with them - I stopped shaving, I curtailed my training, I gained 20 lbs, I stopped going out - just closed myself in my own little world. Soon after that my girlfriend broke up with me. She said the other day: "Get out of my house you worthless bum! You gave up on life didn't you?!"

I've hit the rock bottom, you better take a lesson from what I have to say - don't throw your life away for those mantids, just don't.


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## macro junkie (Feb 23, 2008)

Kruszakus said:


> I thought it would be fun - but I became obsessive about it - I've been spending too much time with them - I stopped shaving, I curtailed my training, I gained 20 lbs, I stopped going out - just in closed myself in my own little world. Soon after that my girlfriend broke up with me. She said the other day: "Get out of my house you worthless bum! You gave up on life didn't you?!"I've hit the rock bottom, you better take a lesson from what you read here - don't throw your life away for those mantids, just don't.


are u still breeding.?


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## Christian (Feb 23, 2008)

He's just kidding


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## macro junkie (Feb 23, 2008)

Christian said:


> He's just kidding


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## Kruszakus (Feb 23, 2008)

Yeah, just a joke - it was inspired by one of the scenes from Team America... "Get out of the street you f**** bum!" That's my favorite line, hehehe.

In fact I find it a very interesting and satysfying hobby - but it developed a tendency to go only for the exotic species... I just cannot have any pleasure from having something that everyone has - so no Hierodula or Sphodromantis for me, as in Monty Python: I'm off to play the grand piano :lol: 

As for profits - did I mention that now I can go to the cinema and watch Alien vs Predator 2 and not beat up te box office guy for selling me ticket for this rubbish?


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## tier (Feb 24, 2008)

Hi

Yes, that is a new point of that discussion:

A breeder is breeding 8 pairs of this and 12 pairs of that,

but a good breeder is breeding 12 pairs D. trigonodera, 25 pairs of G. gongylodes, 14 pairs of Th. servillei, 35 pairs of G. amoena, 9 pais of Tarachodes and stuff like this (Yes, of course your mantids, too, Juergen  ).

Like Christian said before: Stop breeding mantids everyone has got if you want to be a breeder. I - for myself- only try to breed mantids nobody else is breeding. And I'm doing fine  

I am not even triing to dissect/groom/prepare a dead D. desiccata or P. paradoxa. Why should I? I think there is no need to do it. Enough people did it before. It is an easy species so there is no need for me to breed them or prepare them.. Luckily other people like to bread them IN A SPECIAL SPAN OF TIME (Like Christina pointed out above) so some easy speacies like D. desiccata or P. paradoxa won't never vanish. And for me there is no need to breed them.

Of course there is no need to breed Toxodera either, but it is another level of quality to breed something everybody is waiting for. There are some species only 5 people breeding them worldwide (Do not forget: Some of them are in stock for 20 years now but every year 200 people are failing with special species and only 5 secure a second generation, so my first aim is to secure these species for all -more or less explained- breeders )  

To point it out again: I failed with Idolomantis!

gest regards,

tier


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## Christian (Feb 24, 2008)

> Like Christina pointed out above


 :blink:


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## blitzmantis (Feb 24, 2008)

Christian said:


> :blink:


 :lol:


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## tier (Feb 24, 2008)

> The point is that the species in stock undergo popularity cycles.


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## Kruszakus (Feb 24, 2008)

Yeah, now a guy with Ceratomantis would be swarmed with clients.

The same goes for Gongylus - people dropped it, or were not smart enough to buy enough and now only a couple of breeders have them and the demand is great - not a great thing for us clients, hehehe.


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## Mantida (Feb 24, 2008)

Christian said:


> :blink:


LOL.


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## tier (Feb 24, 2008)

Ok, one more time:

Cristian said:



> The point is that the species in stock undergo popularity cycles. What isn't appreciated at moment may be in a year.


I said:



> Luckily other people like to bread them IN A SPECIAL SPAN OF TIME (Like Christina pointed out above)


Everybody understood? :huh: 

regards


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## Christian (Feb 24, 2008)

The joke was about what you did of my name! However, I really have no clue what you wanted to say with this:



> Luckily other people like to bread them IN A SPECIAL SPAN OF TIME


Did you mean that not everybody wants to wait until "his" species has become popular again? :huh:


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## Kruszakus (Feb 24, 2008)

Man, now I think we should also piont out that being a mantis breeder can be a bit confusing.

Guys - when can I call mysel a mantis mogul?


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## Christian (Feb 24, 2008)

If you ask when you aren't one. :lol:


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## Kruszakus (Feb 24, 2008)

Okay. Am I a mantis mogul then? :lol:


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## blitzmantis (Feb 24, 2008)

If you wanna be  

So what you guys are saying is that there will be times in a year where a certain species is the most wanted mantis around but once everyone has got one they become at the bottom of the list of wanted mantids. But when that generation of mantids die then they become wanted again.


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## Kruszakus (Feb 24, 2008)

Yup, that's how things go - but there are species which are always wanted - Goglylus, Hymenopus, Idolomantis, Phyllocrania and so on - it's good to have one or two of those and have a constant supply of cash, not that it's all about it - but if you are runnig a bugatorium with multiple heating gizmos and you have to buy horseloads of fly pupae, then you better have money for that.


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## tier (Feb 24, 2008)

Oh my god! Christian, I am so sorry! Now I realised what I wrote! Please excuse me!



> Did you mean that not everybody wants to wait until "his" species has become popular again?


Yes, for example if somebody sees a picture of Deroplatys desiccata for the first time, he will love it and he won't care if there are enough other breeders of this species. He will buy some and so there will always be some. For sure this is just working with easy species.

regards,

Stefan


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## Kruszakus (Feb 24, 2008)

By the way - how long did it take for you guys before people started... you know... respecting your authoritah?


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## Christian (Feb 24, 2008)

Maybe this happened the day I became a mantis mogul... :lol:


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## Kruszakus (Feb 24, 2008)

Man, it's almost like a talk talk loop :lol: 

I hope none will pick it up from here or it will be like the relay!


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