# About to buy a dozen orchid nymphs. What equipment do I need for them?



## Viceroy (Oct 12, 2021)

I will want to rear them with high survival rate and breed them later. I will need some means of regulating temperature and staggering growth so that the same breeding group can be used to make more.


----------



## MantisMart (Oct 12, 2021)

If you are new to keeping orchids or mantids in general please dont start with a large breeding group. Orchids by themselves can be challenging without experience.


----------



## agent A (Oct 12, 2021)

I wrap a heat rope around a big bin and put the females' cups into said bin

I feed them several times a week, many many flies, and the males stay about 10 degrees cooler and are fed a fly a week

usually they molt within 2 weeks of each other (i have an adult male who is 2 weeks old, 3 fresh adult females, and a few sub males with swelling wing buds)

the other thing you will want to do is buy about 10 i2/3 nymphs and then in about 3 weeks buy 10 more i2/3 nymphs to really stagger your development

females from the later batch can be paired to males from ooths produced by older females ideally


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 12, 2021)

MantisMart said:


> If you are new to keeping orchids or mantids in general please dont start with a large breeding group. Orchids by themselves can be challenging without experience.


being new to orchids is precisely why i am starting with a large group and asking for help here

i began keeping mantises a few months ago. got 1 paradoxa left from my initial purchase of 15. got 2 ooth hatches of elmantis, i think half of them drowned or starved so far, we'll see if usps gets me my fly culture or if its gonna be DOA (again) lol



mantisloverguy6000 said:


> I wrap a heat rope around a big bin and put the females' cups into said bin


any idea what your power consumption is from this? i'm looking to do this as economically as possible.



mantisloverguy6000 said:


> the other thing you will want to do is buy about 10 i2/3 nymphs and then in about 3 weeks buy 10 more i2/3 nymphs to really stagger your development


wouldnt simply staggering development be sufficient? i'm already spending quite a bit amount of money on this.


----------



## MantisMart (Oct 12, 2021)

With all due respect, if you are already struggling with ghosts and elmantis you shouldn't be trying orchids until you get those right first. These are living creatures and its putting them at risk.


----------



## agent A (Oct 14, 2021)

Viceroy said:


> being new to orchids is precisely why i am starting with a large group and asking for help here
> 
> i began keeping mantises a few months ago. got 1 paradoxa left from my initial purchase of 15. got 2 ooth hatches of elmantis, i think half of them drowned or starved so far, we'll see if usps gets me my fly culture or if its gonna be DOA (again) lol
> 
> ...


how on earth do you lose 14 of 15 _Phyllocrania_? also, what * are you doing to accidentally * drown or starve (not going to even ask how you can't * tell the difference between something * drowning and something * starving?) an African ground mantis species?

Why * are you buying * fruitfly cultures AFTER your stuff has hatched and not starting a rotation of cultures?

the * denotes where I would insert the f word but that isn't allowed here

the heat rope isn't high power, they make wattage ratings on these things...

I am suggesting you hedge your bets by A: chilling males and heating females and B: having differently aged groups because guess * what? Sh!t will hit the fan

also I am alarmed about your attitude towards this project. if you're not willing to go all-out for it you really shouldn't be doing it

I'm not trying to come across as crass (and I think we need to make these activities more accessible to everyone) but at a certain point we can't have people who half-heartedly attempt something that has been proven to be a challenge


----------



## hibiscusmile (Oct 17, 2021)

Staggering development really is a chance, that the males will make it till they are adult and that is why he said to get another batch. Experienced breeders have trouble breeding orchids and I don't think new owners realize the work and care involved. Also are you into to this just to sell?  There are a lot of orchids on the market today and you really won't make much money off of them when you figure feeders and heat cost and distilled water. along with proper containers for their growth.


----------



## agent A (Oct 17, 2021)

hibiscusmile said:


> Staggering development really is a chance, that the males will make it till they are adult and that is why he said to get another batch. Experienced breeders have trouble breeding orchids and I don't think new owners realize the work and care involved. Also are you into to this just to sell?  There are a lot of orchids on the market today and you really won't make much money off of them when you figure feeders and heat cost and distilled water. along with proper containers for their growth.


I'm starting to see why we charge for some of these things

I'm not hurting for money and so it makes no difference to me if i get anything back from breeding these insects

but sh!t like this makes me realize that someone is going to take better care of an animal they paid for than something they get for free (on average)

it's one thing to buy a_ Hymenopus _nymph or 2 for rearing purposes but if you want to breed them you really shouldn't be playing the "how many corners can I get away with cutting" game

and I'm sorry if I sound a bit harsh or irritable here, all week it has felt like my efforts to do right by people I don't even know (just for the sake of being a decent human being) have been in vain


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 17, 2021)

> how on earth do you lose 14 of 15 _Phyllocrania_?


had 11 remaining on delivery. the rest died im guessing from exposure to mold because i didn't ventilate their containers, and from ants that i tried to feed them.

 



> what * are you doing to accidentally * drown or starve


elmantis hatched from an ooth into a container with a pool of water at the bottom. some drowned. i learned to use substrate and cut a drain hole.

some (probably) starved because i dont have small enough things to feed them. the few i have remaining will probably starve also.

 



> Why * are you buying * fruitfly cultures AFTER your stuff has hatched and not starting a rotation of cultures?


i didnt. i've bought excelsior, containers, rapashy, and fly cultures before my first shipment of paradoxa arrived. the fly culture was DOA. i bought a second one. it was also doa.



> also I am alarmed about your attitude towards this project


why


----------



## agent A (Oct 17, 2021)

Viceroy said:


> had 11 remaining on delivery. the rest died im guessing from exposure to mold because i didn't ventilate their containers, and from ants that i tried to feed them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jesus Christ you don't get it

why do you have mold anywhere near arboreal insects? I really wish people who have never reared something before would at least look at someone else's setup before getting the animal

You really should have a steady supply of food before even buying the animal

I really get mad when people are wreckless and innocent animals suffer because of it

as for your attitude towards the project, if you're not going to go all-out and follow the advice of people who actually get this species to pair, you're just setting yourself up for failure


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 18, 2021)

what advice have i not followed


----------



## agent A (Oct 19, 2021)

Viceroy said:


> what advice have i not followed


i did not say you haven't followed advice I said if you DON'T follow the advice you might as well not bother


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 19, 2021)

do you have reason to suspect i wouldnt follow advice i asked for


----------



## Synapze (Oct 19, 2021)

Perhaps you should consider another group of ghosts just to get a little more experience before moving to orchids. P. paradoxa temperature &amp; humidity requirements are so much easier to maintain... you may not need any additional heating. It will also give you a while to do additional research and gather all of the equipment/supplies you will need.  

It's also very important that you build a network of fellow keepers. Not only to learn from but also to increase your chances of finding homes for the offspring. The last thing you want is a boat load of nymphs and no way to move them. Otherwise, you'll run the chance of turning your hobby into a daily chore that you might dread. If that happens it can suck all of the joy out of the hobby for you. 

Whatever you choose to do, I wish you good luck.


----------



## agent A (Oct 19, 2021)

Viceroy said:


> do you have reason to suspect i wouldnt follow advice i asked for


yes...

I also forgot to mention: your question about power consumption is a bit of a mute point because the cost (in money) of the power usage is going to depend on where you live. in Fort Collins, utilities are expensive

but yes let me get a reading on my house's power meter before and after unplugging that heat rope so I can determine what it is doing 



Viceroy said:


> being new to orchids is precisely why i am starting with a large group and asking for help here
> 
> i began keeping mantises a few months ago. got 1 paradoxa left from my initial purchase of 15. got 2 ooth hatches of elmantis, i think half of them drowned or starved so far, we'll see if usps gets me my fly culture or if its gonna be DOA (again) lol
> 
> ...


----------



## Synapze (Oct 19, 2021)

Viceroy said:


> any idea what your power consumption is from this? i'm looking to do this as economically as possible.


Find the wattage of the heat source (cable, bulb, whatever) you will be using. 

Multiply wattage by hours used each day.

Divide the result by 1,000. 

Multiply by the number of days you're measuring.

Multiply by the amount your power company charges you per kWh... the amount will be listed on your electric bill or you can find it on their website.


----------



## agent A (Oct 19, 2021)

Synapze said:


> Find the wattage of the heat source (cable, bulb, whatever) you will be using.
> 
> Multiply wattage by hours used each day.
> 
> ...


may I also add that if you're so strapped for cash you have to worry about how much a heat cable will cost to run, how in tf will you buy enough food and such to maintain the kids?


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 19, 2021)

i think you should have a glass of water


----------



## agent A (Oct 25, 2021)

Viceroy said:


> i think you should have a glass of water


yes  

i often forget to hydrate!


----------



## Orin (Oct 25, 2021)

Viceroy said:


> i think you should have a glass of water


I find it interesting hobbyists sometimes pick on others for admitting not all their mantids live. Were they to all survive, a single pair of most species in 12-15 generations would exceed the mass of the earth.


----------



## KevinsWither (Oct 27, 2021)

Not that I keep orchid mantises anymore and don't plan to do so for the foreseeable, but I kept them before and I have to say, they aren't as bad to keep as other mantises despite popular belief. 

The most important thing is giving orchid mantises side vents on the containers. If you don't do that, the stagnant air will induce mold/bacteria that can be fatal for orchid mantises. Orchid mantises will eat red runner cockroaches just fine too, but its ideal to give them flies, butterflies and moths, as well as the occasional honeybee. 

Keeping the humidity up is important but not as important as having side vents on the container. They can be kept at room temperature just fine unless you want to stagger males or increase growth for females. I have kept many orchid mantises this way. Your biggest problem is getting fertile ooths. Because orchid mantises aren't actually too bad to breed, infact I would say it is easier to breed orchid mantises than other praying mantis species based off of breeding process only. Simply when the male and female are old enough, distract the female with food and gently nudge the male from a stick or your finger onto the back of the female mantis. If successful, the male will mount and will start drumming.


----------



## Viceroy (Oct 28, 2021)

KevinsWither said:


> The most important thing is giving orchid mantises side vents on the containers. If you don't do that, the stagnant air will induce mold/bacteria that can be fatal for orchid mantises. Orchid mantises will eat red runner cockroaches just fine too, but its ideal to give them flies, butterflies and moths, as well as the occasional honeybee.


so do you keep all of these? never looked into keeping feeders, just fruit flies


----------



## MrGhostMantis (Nov 2, 2021)

Viceroy said:


> so do you keep all of these? never looked into keeping feeders, just fruit flies


If your ghosts were anywhere past L4 this is why they died! You can’t feed a mantis fruit flies all their life!


----------



## MrGhostMantis (Nov 2, 2021)

To add on, I have a ton of Elmantis right now and they take fruit flies just fine, so that excuse doesn’t help you here.


----------



## Viceroy (Nov 3, 2021)

what else are you supposed to feed them


----------



## Synapze (Nov 3, 2021)

Viceroy said:


> what else are you supposed to feed them


Blue bottle flies seem to be one of the best options.


----------



## agent A (Nov 3, 2021)

Jesus c#ck gobbling Christ!

1: you want to give any mantis a varied diet

2: you want APPROPRIATELY sized prey items

I generally keep on hand a number of things. 2 species of fruitflies, 4 roach species, a cricket species, waxworms, _Trichoplusia ni _or _Spodoptera exigua_, houseflies, blue bottleflies, and black soldier flies

most species start off with 1 of 2 fruitfly species. if they start on the bigger guys, they shift over to houseflies in an instar or 2. if they start on the smaller guys, they go to the bigger fruitfly species first

certain species I will also then give really tiny crickets to. Every 6 weeks or so I order (from Ghann's Cricket Farm) a bunch of crickets, 1000 of the 1/16", 1000 of the 1/4", 1000 of the 1/2", and 1000 of the 3/4". I have a lot of hungry mouths to feed. I offer small roaches and then bottleflies to nymphs as they keep getting bigger

_Hymenopus _shouldn't be fed black soldier flies or crickets, but the other species (to be clear, the 3 moth species I listed I allow to morph into adults before using as food, but my frogs will eat the larval stages) I listed (moths, roaches, flies) are fine

_Creobroter _can eat all of the above, _Otomantis _won't really recognize the crickets or roaches as food. I don't recommend non-flying prey for anything in the Empusidae. _Odontomantis _don't like crickets. But please do better research before impulse buying a LIVING CREATURE!


----------



## Introvertebrate (Nov 7, 2021)

Not to hijack the thread, but back on the first page there was some discussion about staggering development.  I realize that male orchids reach maturity a lot quicker.  Is this only an issue with orchids, or does it need to be considered with other mantis species as well?  If I were raising some Pseudocreobotra from birth, would I need to keep the males at a lower temperature, in order to ultimately breed ooth-mates?


----------



## agent A (Nov 8, 2021)

Introvertebrate said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but back on the first page there was some discussion about staggering development.  I realize that male orchids reach maturity a lot quicker.  Is this only an issue with orchids, or does it need to be considered with other mantis species as well?  If I were raising some Pseudocreobotra from birth, would I need to keep the males at a lower temperature, in order to ultimately breed ooth-mates?


_Theopropus, Pseudoxyops, _and most acanthopids need to have staggered development

as for _Pseudocreobotra_, you will want to feed the females a little more, but drastic measures to speed females up and slow males down aren't necessary


----------



## Introvertebrate (Nov 9, 2021)

Thanks Alex.  Very informative as usual.


----------



## Jessie (Nov 9, 2021)

While I do agree agree that maybe orchids wouldn't be the best thing for them.

I do think there is a nice way to say it than some of the comments are coming across.

Everybody makes mistakes and everybody needs to learn and that there is that there is nicer ways to say it too.


----------



## agent A (Nov 10, 2021)

Jessie said:


> While I do agree agree that maybe orchids wouldn't be the best thing for them.
> 
> I do think there is a nice way to say it than some of the comments are coming across.
> 
> Everybody makes mistakes and everybody needs to learn and that there is that there is nicer ways to say it too.


sorry, my vegan bias is making me feel bad for the animals


----------



## KevinsWither (Dec 12, 2021)

Viceroy said:


> so do you keep all of these? never looked into keeping feeders, just fruit flies


The red runners I used to cultivate. As for the flies they can be ordered online. Banana roaches can be cultivated. As for the rest, while it's not advised to give mantises wild caught prey, some people do and those mantises are fine. The other option is to cultivate those butterflies/moths and those can become quite expensive. In that case look into painted lady butterflies/cabbage butterflies/silk moths.


----------

