# Haania sp. (Moss Mantis)



## Precarious (Apr 15, 2014)

OK, this is the new breeding project. Wish me luck...

I apologize the video is not quite up to my usual standard. For some reason my camcorder lost all the settings I'd honed in over the past 2 years and I didn't notice until half the footage had been shot. You may not see any difference but the depth of field is not what it should be. I'm sure I'll get more footage as they mature.

*Male*












*Female*


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## Precarious (Apr 15, 2014)




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## Vlodek (Apr 15, 2014)

Those pictures are amazing as usual. Really breath taking. Good luck breeding your pair!


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## agent A (Apr 15, 2014)

wow! how many banks did u have to rob to afford those things? :tt2: lol jk


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## Mime454 (Apr 15, 2014)

Wow! I'm so glad that you have them. Thanks for sharing the great photos.

Are they hard to care for?


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## Digger (Apr 15, 2014)

Dance mantis, dance !! Remarkable images, as always. I wonder if you use a separate device for video? Or DSLR for both. Am taking an intro-to-video class next week, sponsored by PBS. Maybe in 20 years I can reach your skill sets.


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## Precarious (Apr 15, 2014)

Vlodek said:


> Those pictures are amazing as usual. Really breath taking. Good luck breeding your pair!


Thanks! I'll do my best.



agent A said:


> wow! how many banks did u have to rob to afford those things? :tt2: lol jk


I've been sworn to secrecy by the supplier but the price was not an obstacle.



Mime454 said:


> Wow! I'm so glad that you have them. Thanks for sharing the great photos.
> 
> Are they hard to care for?


Thanks, man! They seem very easy. Zero issues so far. The male molted a few days ago (photos are pre-molt, video post-molt) and everything went smoothly. Unfortunately I missed watching by only 15 minutes! Grrr!



Digger said:


> Dance mantis, dance !! Remarkable images, as always. I wonder if you use a separate device for video? Or DSLR for both. Am taking an intro-to-video class next week, sponsored by PBS. Maybe in 20 years I can reach your skill sets.


I use a Canon HFS200 camcorder for video. I haven't experimented very much using the T2i for video, but from all I've read it overheats very quickly. I also suspect the camcorder is a little more forgiving when it comes to lighting. I could be wrong though and really should take the time to find out for sure. One thing I do know for sure is the camcorder captures better depth of field than my DSLR macro lenses so in that regard it may be the better choice. Would be nice to have a larger sensor but those camcorders are way too pricey.


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## Aryia (Apr 15, 2014)

Wow nice! What instar are they in the pictures?


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## Paradoxica (Apr 15, 2014)

I've never seen a mantis make that "Drumming" motion quite that way, very interesting.

Glad to see these are finally in the US and even more glad they landed in your capable hands.


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## sally (Apr 16, 2014)

Incredible!! Good luck with them


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## kitkat39 (Apr 16, 2014)

AWESOME!


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## Precarious (Apr 16, 2014)

Aryia said:


> Wow nice! What instar are they in the pictures?


I don't know for sure but the wing buds suggest to me they are still a few molts from adult.



sally said:


> Incredible!! Good luck with them


Thank you!



Paradoxica said:


> I've never seen a mantis make that "Drumming" motion quite that way, very interesting.
> 
> Glad to see these are finally in the US and even more glad they landed in your capable hands.


Thanks! I hope I can live up to the challenge. It's unknown territory.

They remind me of Sibylla pretiosa with their long-legged build, movement and behavior. And that's immediately what I thought of when I saw the arm movements. Looking back at old footage of S.pretiosa theirs is more a whole body motion. They're more wobbly in the legs as they do it. So, yeah, it is pretty unique and they do it quite a lot.


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## Bartek (Apr 16, 2014)

^^

As i said before

Perfect documentary  

next would be few sub sp from this family


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## Shadow (Apr 16, 2014)

What temp did you keep them and humidity


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## reptilia5 (Apr 16, 2014)

Awesome! Very beautiful mantis.


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## reptilia5 (Apr 16, 2014)

What is required for their care? What is their adult size?


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## HungryGhost (Apr 16, 2014)

Time to clean the drool out of my keyboard. WOW!


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## JP77 (Apr 16, 2014)

Wow, they are amazing! Good luck to you


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## Precarious (Apr 16, 2014)

Bartek said:


> Perfect documentary
> next would be few sub sp from this family


Yeah, Haania confusa! Then maybe Pogonogaster tristani, Majangella moultoni (or is this just an alternate name for Haania sp.?)...

*Pogonogaster tristani*

It's premature for me to offer any advice on care. Hopefully by the time they are in culture I'll have a better idea of what works and what doesn't. I'd rather not make recommendations that later turn out to be bad advice and since no one has them at this point it doesn't really matter anyway. I'm not trying to be mysterious. I just have a pet peeve about giving advice when you don't have the experience to back it up and I haven't had them long enough to speak with any authority.

I've yet to see an adult. In another few weeks I may have access to a few.


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## Shadow (Apr 16, 2014)

I call dibs on babies


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## Falconerguy (Apr 16, 2014)

You have just lit a spark of jealosy in me that I didn't know existed. I wish you the very best of luck in breeding this species so you can spread the love to the rest of us.


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## mantiseater (Apr 16, 2014)

It would be amazing if we can get them into culture.


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## aesculpius (Apr 16, 2014)

I hope you do well. Images and videos look good as always. It would be amazing to see these come into the hobby here in the US


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## mantiseater (Apr 16, 2014)

dibs on the first one you sell!


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## Shadow (Apr 16, 2014)

mantiseater said:


> dibs on the first one you sell!


 I already dibs in the first page


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## Precarious (Apr 16, 2014)

Falconerguy said:


> I wish you the very best of luck in breeding this species so you can spread the love to the rest of us.





mantiseater said:


> It would be amazing if we can get them into culture.





aesculpius said:


> It would be amazing to see these come into the hobby here in the US


That's the plan!



mantiseater said:


> dibs on the first one you sell!





Shadow said:


> I already dibs in the first page


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## Shadow (Apr 16, 2014)

Lol precarrious then I say reservation


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## Precarious (Apr 16, 2014)

Shadow said:


> Lol precarrious then I say reservation


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## Shadow (Apr 17, 2014)

Were do u find everything


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## bobericc (Apr 17, 2014)

Congrats I wish you the best with moss mantis, would be interesting to see what the ooths look like, where they lay and what the l1 look like/hatch rates.


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## Precarious (Apr 17, 2014)

Shadow said:


> Were do u find everything


Sometimes I just stumble onto things. Other times people find me through my videos and photography and offer me things. That's the case here. There's a big advantage to producing content others around the world can enjoy. My YouTube channel got over 200,000 views from Taiwan alone last month. It feels good to catch the eye of that many people and opens the door to potential opportunities. If I had an insect species I really liked I wouldn't think twice about sending some to a guy that will take detailed photos and video of them to share with the world. It's a no-brainer.

So it's good to keep that in mind. When you give back to the world people are more likely to give to you.


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## jsorigami (Apr 17, 2014)

Best of luck!


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## TheBeesKnees (Apr 21, 2014)

wow!! Brilliant photos, this species is especially beautiful!! Thank you for sharing these with us! I really look forward to seeing how the breeding and hatching goes!!


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## Bartek (Apr 21, 2014)

I was just wondering how much ppl are gonna pay for such a specimen lol  

guys, dont be so shy and put some offers for , let say sub adult couple sexed of course


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## elake (Apr 21, 2014)

Wow I want some!


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## Shadow (Apr 21, 2014)

Bartek said:


> I was just wondering how much ppl are gonna pay for such a specimen lol
> 
> guys, dont be so shy and put some offers for , let say sub adult couple sexed of course


 30-40$


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## Precarious (May 4, 2014)

All is well so far. Female molted a few days ago.

Video update...


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## sally (May 4, 2014)

Incredible! I love the habitat you set up, what I could see of it. Good luck with these


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## gripen (May 4, 2014)

Can you post pics of the vivarium you have set up for them? I would love to know how you grow such nice moss...


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## Precarious (May 5, 2014)

sally said:


> Incredible! I love the habitat you set up, what I could see of it. Good luck with these


Thanks. Details below...



gripen said:


> Can you post pics of the vivarium you have set up for them? I would love to know how you grow such nice moss...


I initially had a larger enclosure prepared but when I found out I was only getting a single pair I decided to try out a modified 80 oz cup. It's a pain but I like to cut a big window on each side of my large cups and glue in fine screen. It's especially important in this instance due to the necessity of high humidity. I also cover the entire underside of the lid with screen to expand the area they can hang from as well as allowing for better gripping.







First there is a substrate of Zoo Med Eco Earth that I try to keep moist at all times. (I'd just added water before taking this photo which is why it looks too wet.) The cup itself sits on layers of paper towel on top of an Exo Terra Heatwave Rainforest substrate heater. It only adds a little heat (holding at 78-85) but it's enough to keep a steady humidity of 75-85 even with the cross breeze from the large windows. I've learned from experience that it's very easy to grow mold in small-medium enclosures with high humidity unless you allow for ample venting. Even then mold can form which is why I added springtails to the substrate. Springtails help to control mold, or so I believe. Anyone know for sure?

Over the substrate is a layer of live sheet moss I picked up at a reptile show. Then there is a piece of cork bark and two T-Rex Terra Accents Lichen Sticks. And that's it other than the temp/humidity guage.






This is plenty of space for them. You can see the female in the moss munching a Hydei and the male on a lichen stick. Both molted once so far and in both cases they hung from the underside of a lichen stick. They work really well because there's so much to grip. I'm really happy I found them at the pet store. As they mature I may secure lichen sticks to the underside of the lid to encourage them to molt from a higher perch if needed.

So there you have it. Nothing too extravagant or glamorous but it does the trick. I keep a square of moss on paper tower and extra lichen sticks to use for the videos. That allows me to rotate the 'stage' as needed.


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## kllinke (May 5, 2014)

what a beautiful species. Pictures are spectacular. Good Luck and keep us all posted on their progress!


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## pohchunyee (May 5, 2014)

Great setup. Thanks for sharing


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## mantiseater (May 6, 2014)

How are they doing?


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## Precarious (May 6, 2014)

mantiseater said:


> How are they doing?


Same as 2 days ago when I gave the last update. :clown:


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## Shadow (May 6, 2014)

How much did u get them for and what do they eat?


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## gripen (May 6, 2014)

Shadow said:


> How much did u get them for and what do they eat?


Those are two questions that do not go well together.


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## Precarious (May 6, 2014)

Shadow said:


> How much did u get them for and what do they eat?


I didn't buy them. So far, as can be seen in the first video, they eat hydei fruit flies.


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## Paradoxica (May 6, 2014)

Not to get too far ahead of ourselves, but if you are successful please only sell these to the _most_ experienced breeders. At least until they are established in culture.

(In other words no matter how much money I offer you, don't sell them to me :tt2: )


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## Precarious (May 7, 2014)

Paradoxica said:


> Not to get too far ahead of ourselves, but if you are successful please only sell these to the _most_ experienced breeders. At least until they are established in culture.
> 
> (In other words no matter how much money I offer you, don't sell them to me :tt2: )


Hmmm... I will consider this but I was planning on selling them for a nickle a piece to be used as feeders. :sorcerer: 

I figure that's only about half the price of crickets so I'll get a lot of customer$ and make my first million in no time! :euro:


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## TheBeesKnees (May 7, 2014)

A++ would feed to my Hierodu--WHY WOULD YOU EVEN JOKE ABOUT THAT???

[GROSS SOBBING]


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## TheBeesKnees (May 7, 2014)

in all seriousness, these mantids are so beautiful! I really hope they can be bred succesfully!
I have no faith in my own ability to raise such tiny mantids (nor do I have any faith in the Thai postal service, for that matter), and so I have no interest in acquiring any myself, but I hope they can become established in culture so that there might be more photographs and documentation of these little beauties!! Your photos are always such a treat.


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## Precarious (May 11, 2014)

TheBeesKnees said:


> in all seriousness, these mantids are so beautiful! I really hope they can be bred succesfully!
> 
> I have no faith in my own ability to raise such tiny mantids (nor do I have any faith in the Thai postal service, for that matter), and so I have no interest in acquiring any myself, but I hope they can become established in culture so that there might be more photographs and documentation of these little beauties!! Your photos are always such a treat.


Yeah, you may have trouble getting fruit fly cultures. I'm pretty sure the nymphs will be so small they need springtails.


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## Precarious (May 11, 2014)

The male molted again. I knew he was getting ready so I kept an eye on him all day but these guys molt so fast I turned my head and he was done! Son of a...


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## mantiseater (May 12, 2014)

wow! at this rate you can have both of them at adult by two weeks


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## mantiseater (May 13, 2014)

The male looks like it could be sub.


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## Precarious (May 13, 2014)

mantiseater said:


> The male looks like it could be sub.


Yeah, the wing buds are pretty pronounced. He may be a week or two ahead of the female which shouldn't be a problem. Keep your fingers crossed.


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## sally (May 13, 2014)

They are wonderful!


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## mantiseater (May 19, 2014)

Has the female molted?


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## Precarious (May 19, 2014)

mantiseater said:


> Has the female molted?


Not yet. She's been eating like a pig. If her molts are spaced the same as the male's she will molt around the first of June.


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## ShieldMantid1997 (May 20, 2014)

Real cool


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## Christian (May 21, 2014)

Hi.

The species people are dealing here with is very likely _Haania confusa_ Saussure, 1871. The specimens are from W Malaysia and the pictures fit well to what I know from Borneo. I am currently working on a revision of the genus, and it turned out that there are several undescribed species, so there is still some incertainty left to the ID, but I don't think that it will change in this case. As a coincidence, I wrote down my wildlife observations on two other species I did over the past three years; they will soon be published in a German journal.

The setup is wrong. The species live on big tree trunks, so they need vertical and rather flat bark covered by short (!) mosses. If the moss is too long, it precludes proper walking. So the twigs offered are way too thin and the moss on the ground is useless, except to the human eye. Of course one may argue that they are hardy so far so it can't be that bad, but my experiences on place on the Philippines showed me that they are not so easy to take care of. I don't say that you won't succeed, I just wanted to point out that they need more attention than it seems after keeping some nymphs alive for some weeks or months. Adult molts still have to suceed, and copulations to take place, both things that may go wrong if there were unseen problems with nymphal care. Also important is that first instars are about 3,5 mm long and you need a culture of springtails and firebrats to properly feed them - and noone knows yet if they will accept this food.

So, I really hope these few hints may help to bring them into culture. As for now, all that people have are a few wild-caught nymphs that seem to fare well in captivity. It should maybe be noted that populations are scattered in the natural habitat and far too many nymphs were removed by the collector than can be safely advised. If I would collect so many in my place, I would wipe out an entire micropopulation. As disgusted as I may be because of inproper behavior and over-exploitation during collection, the more I hope that people will succeed with the specimens that survived the trip and value them as the rare species they are.


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## Precarious (May 21, 2014)

Christian said:


> Hi.
> 
> The species people are dealing here with is very likely _Haania confusa_ Saussure, 1871. The specimens are from W Malaysia and the pictures fit well to what I know from Borneo...


Thanks for your input!

Yes, I was sure to get a detailed description of their natural environment. They do spend most of their time vertical but I also spoke to someone who was lucky enough to witness more than a few molt and they always seek a horizontal (or nearly horizontal) perch for that. That's what I've witnessed so far as well. The enclosure is more geared toward those dangerous moments. They seem very content in there. They really don't move much.

The moss is mainly to hold humidity without mold growth. In the wild they stay to dryer rocks and trees with only light moss, as you said.

I agree that we're all safer if a species exists in the wild and in culture - just in case. I can't speak for what volume of nymphs have been removed from the wild since I have no direct knowledge, but once they are cultured there will be less necessity for that. I can say for sure that some in captivity have reached adulthood, bred and have laid. So it is absolutely possible. Just a matter of time now till we see how the nymphs fare in captivity.


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## GhostStealth7889 (May 25, 2014)

Wow Really Nice So there no way you would sell the nymphs?


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## Precarious (May 25, 2014)

GhostStealth7889 said:


> Wow Really Nice So there no way you would sell the nymphs?


What I said is no reservations, and that we, as a community, would prefer nymph get to those with a record of breeding success until additional cultures are established.


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## Digger (May 26, 2014)

Henry,

I feel like Dorothy facing the Wizard of Oz when reading your entries and viewing your mantid media. Here I get so excited over rearing the common, backstreet Tenodera sinensis. I feel so pedestrian :mellow: I recently bought a starter camcorder - the Canon Vixia HFR 500 inspired by your terrific vids. You are truly the Wizard of Mantids.


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## MantisSFB (May 28, 2014)

That is one marvelous mantis! These insects never cease to amaze me.


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## Precarious (Jun 2, 2014)

Digger said:


> Henry,
> 
> I feel like Dorothy facing the Wizard of Oz when reading your entries and viewing your mantid media. Here I get so excited over rearing the common, backstreet Tenodera sinensis. I feel so pedestrian :mellow: I recently bought a starter camcorder - the Canon Vixia HFR 500 inspired by your terrific vids. You are truly the Wizard of Mantids.


Yay! Glad you got a camcorder. Hope you enjoy it. The 2 I've owner are also Canon Vixia so you're in good company. Now what you need to do is find out the thread size on the lens and buy an Opteka 10x Macro to add on. And if the f number is adjustable set it the highest setting.


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## Precarious (Jun 2, 2014)

OK, people. Female is now adult! She molted this afternoon which is pretty funny because I predicted it would happen early this month. I didn't take any chances and allowed her to molt undisturbed. I'll get photos of the process next generation (I hope). She had been roaming around upside down for days so I knew she was preparing. She chose the top of the cup and all went well. Male is due to molt within a month so we should be right on schedule.

Here are a few quick pics...


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## sally (Jun 2, 2014)

That is so exciting! great job with them


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## Aryia (Jun 3, 2014)

Amazing! First time seeing adult pictures and they are soooo cute ^^ What's her size? She looks tiny in the pictures!


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## ShieldMantid1997 (Jun 3, 2014)

They look incredibly tiny, how long is she?


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## Precarious (Jun 18, 2014)

sally said:


> That is so exciting! great job with them


Thank you!



Aryia said:


> Amazing! First time seeing adult pictures and they are soooo cute ^^ What's her size? She looks tiny in the pictures!





ShieldMantid1997 said:


> They look incredibly tiny, how long is she?


Yes, she is tiny. Here she is on my thumb...


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## TheBeesKnees (Jun 19, 2014)

oooh I get so excited every time I see that you've updated this thread!
Congrats on the adult female, she's simply a stunning little beastie!


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## bobericc (Jun 19, 2014)

Amazing, congrats on a healthy adult


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## mantiseater (Jun 20, 2014)

When are you mating them?


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## PlayingMantis (Jun 21, 2014)

This is truly amazing, kudos to all the work you've put into bringing this species into culture. Wish you best of luck with breeding them!


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## twolfe (Jul 2, 2014)

Wow! Amazing photos and such a cool mantis. I can't believe I missed this thread until you sent me the link.

Wishing you success in breeding them.


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## Bug Trader (Jul 8, 2014)

Congrats on the success with this species.


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## aNisip (Jul 8, 2014)

I know I've been out of the hobby for awhile now, but major congrats and wish you luck with this species! :clap: 

All the best,

Andrew


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## Precarious (Jul 18, 2014)

Thanks everyone!

Well the male molted perfectly. I didn't witness a connection until this morning and the female has already laid 4 ooths. They may be duds or it could be I just missed an earlier connection. Time will tell.


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## twolfe (Jul 18, 2014)

Did the connection last a long time? I'm hoping you missed a connection and that ALL of your ooths turn out to be fertile!

That's one the cutest nymphs.

Thanks for the update on this species. I'm sure we are all hoping you have success.


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## Precarious (Jul 18, 2014)

Tammy Wolfe said:


> Did the connection last a long time? I'm hoping you missed a connection and that ALL of your ooths turn out to be fertile!
> 
> That's one the cutest nymphs.
> 
> Thanks for the update on this species. I'm sure we are all hoping you have success.


Not very long. Maybe an hour or less that I saw so there is a good chance I just missed it before. I hope they're all fertile because some are pretty big by Haania standards. One looks like about 12-14 nymphs. 6-8 seems to be the average.

The nymphs are so tiny I have to really search for them. I usually don't spot them unless they move. And the ooths are so small they're nearly impossible to find. It's a good thing I've witnessed every time she lays so far. When they're in the moss you can't even see them. They're blue at first but quickly turn dark brown. I watcher her lay one, knew exactly where she laid but still had a very hard time locating it. I can see why no one finds ooths in the wild.


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## -db- (Jul 20, 2014)

Every single picture and video in this thread are stunning. I feel like these pics should be published in a magazine. Great work! Thank you for sharing.


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## Precarious (Jul 20, 2014)

-db- said:


> Every single picture and video in this thread are stunning. I feel like these pics should be published in a magazine. Great work! Thank you for sharing.


I'll make you a deal. If you can get a publisher to back this magazine I'll supply all the photos...


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## aesculpius (Jul 20, 2014)

You generate enough buzz around your own mantises that if you grouped a few people together you could probably make a quarterly ezine about mantises. I doubt there's enough of a market to do just mantises though :&lt;


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## Precarious (Jul 20, 2014)

aesculpius said:


> You generate enough buzz around your own mantises that if you grouped a few people together you could probably make a quarterly ezine about mantises. I doubt there's enough of a market to do just mantises though :&lt;


Oh, I know. That was just a little joke. It's not worth the trouble to produce a periodical geared towards mantids. Not a big enough audience. I'll stick to videos and photography where I can at least make a little money.


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## Sticky (Jul 20, 2014)

Too bad you won't create this magazine!! Id love to subscribe to it! It would be wonderful.


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## -db- (Jul 21, 2014)

Precarious said:


> I'll make you a deal. If you can get a publisher to back this magazine I'll supply all the photos...


Ok, let me check my connections.  I wish I could get backing for that magazine. I would buy the first copy!!


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## Precarious (Jul 21, 2014)

In case anyone is curious, this is how Haania prefer to deposit ooths. I mounted this branch vertically across the top of their enclosure with the lichen hanging down. The female hangs from the tip of the lichen to deposit the ova. I have white circles over the ova in the last frame of the closeups to show where each nymph will emerge. As you can see, ova count is low (9 and 12) as is common for small species, but the female lays an ooth about every 4 days. I would guess the reason for this is that in order for such a tiny female to carry more ova at once the nymphs would have to be too small. As it is they require sprintails.


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## bobericc (Jul 21, 2014)

Wow nice cam to get an ova count on the ooth, but as the saying goes don't count your chickens lol hope you get better numbers


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## Precarious (Jul 21, 2014)

bobericc said:


> Wow nice cam to get an ova count on the ooth, but as the saying goes don't count your chickens lol hope you get better numbers


Haha! 12 is actually a high number for this species. I received an ooth from someone and it only had 3 ova! Of those 3 one nymph got stuck. So I collected 5 ooths so far from this female and they are all a decent size. Should be a good haul.

I saw your ad so you must be doing great with the Heterochaetas. That's awesome! Keep up the good work.


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## Precarious (Jul 30, 2014)

So far so good. Adults still going strong. Nymphs doing well and now L2.

Here is a video of one of the nymphs hunting springtails.


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## sally (Jul 30, 2014)

Fantastic video


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## Precarious (Jul 30, 2014)

sally said:


> Fantastic video


Thanks! I'd never seen springtails in that much detail other than in stills. Pretty interesting to see how they bob their heads as they run around. They look like little alien bunnies!


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## jsorigami (Jul 30, 2014)

Very nice video!  how big is the L2 mantis?


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## Crazy4mantis (Jul 30, 2014)

WOW. we need to get these established asap


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## Precarious (Jul 30, 2014)

jsorigami said:


> Very nice video!  how big is the L2 mantis?


Just barely larger than L1. Watch the end of the L1 video to see it on my hand. It's about half the size of a grain of rice or about 1.5x the size of a hydei fruit fly. If you know how small springtails are you can judge by that.


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## dmina (Aug 7, 2014)

I Want 1... I want 1

Beautiful... all the photo's

The whole story..

thanks for sharing...

NOW... Where do I place my order????


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## Krissim Klaw (Aug 7, 2014)

Precarious said:


> Thanks! I'd never seen springtails in that much detail other than in stills. Pretty interesting to see how they bob their heads as they run around. They look like little alien bunnies!


I get way more amusement out of watching springtails run around than I should probably admit. I stare at the ones in my my roach tank all the time. I love the way their little antennae vibrate. It was fun seeing them so up close in your video, even if they were being made into a meal.


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## prslaughter (Aug 7, 2014)

Stunning photos. Really amazing!


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## twolfe (Aug 9, 2014)

Interesting species and nice video.


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## Veganbrian (Aug 9, 2014)

Amazing photos! Beautiful mantis!


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## mantiseater (Oct 14, 2014)

how are they?


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## Precarious (Oct 20, 2014)

mantiseater said:


> how are they?


Male is dead. Witnessed 2 connections before he passed but none of the ooths have hatched. Discovered they dry out very easily and though I've taken precautions still no hatch. This species may be a bust but I have a different moss species in the works.


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## Aryia (Oct 21, 2014)

I've seen people in the reptile hobby use boxes where they put a mesh divider in the middle and fill the bottom with water. No airholes for the box, and the box will stay at 99% humidity. Might help in cases like these?


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## Precarious (Oct 21, 2014)

Aryia said:


> I've seen people in the reptile hobby use boxes where they put a mesh divider in the middle and fill the bottom with water. No airholes for the box, and the box will stay at 99% humidity. Might help in cases like these?


That's a possibility but not sure it's really necessary. At this point it must be that she's sterile. So far the other species I have is looking a little more ornate so I'll keep my fingers crossed I can get more of those and get a culture going.


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## dmina (Oct 21, 2014)

Sorry to hear your trouble with the moss mantis..

Care to share info &amp; pictures of the new ones?


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## Rick (Oct 21, 2014)

Just read the entire thread. Despite the issues with the ooths you should make a care sheet in the care sheet forum. The ooth placement is really interesting.


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## Precarious (Oct 21, 2014)

Rick said:


> Just read the entire thread. Despite the issues with the ooths you should make a care sheet in the care sheet forum. The ooth placement is really interesting.


If I had succeeded I would have but as things turned out I may have done something wrong that caused the failure. I'd hate to put bad info out there. Plus no one else has these so it's kind of pointless. If I do manage to get a culture going I'd feel more confident in my technique and maybe other could benefit from a care sheet.

I agree about the ooths! It's very cool. I tried so hard to catch it on video.



dmina said:


> Sorry to hear your trouble with the moss mantis..
> 
> Care to share info &amp; pictures of the new ones?


The new sp. has more elongated, almost pointed eyes and larger flanges on the head. They are a few molts younger than the other in the photo below but I doubt the eye shape could be only due to immaturity.

Sp. documented in this thread so far:







New sp.:


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## mantiseater (Oct 21, 2014)

wow!


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## twolfe (Oct 21, 2014)

That new species is so cool. I love that face.


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## Precarious (Oct 21, 2014)

Tammy Wolfe said:


> That new species is so cool. I love that face.


Me too! I'm hoping those shapes hold out into adulthood. So far the body plates look about the same as the other species but maybe we'll get lucky and they'll get a bit more exaggerated as they mature. If we're even luckier the 2 nymphs will turn out to be a pair. Haven't sexed them yet but I probably should just to get it over with.

I should also point out just how small these are. The larger of the two is only about .75" and approximately L5.


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## jsorigami (Oct 21, 2014)

I'm loving the new species (I loves the old one too but still). Really hope that they are a pair. Best of luck.


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## Crazy4mantis (Oct 21, 2014)

It's not fair, you have awesome mantises _and_ awesome photos.


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## dmina (Oct 21, 2014)

Awesome.. those look really cool also... I also have fingers crossed for a pair for you...

I know Sally is working with Moss mantis... I wonder which ones she has?


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## Precarious (Oct 22, 2014)

Crazy4mantis said:


> It's not fair, you have awesome mantises _and_ awesome photos.


Just throw thousands of dollars at equipment and software then become a monk that commits all your time into learning how to use it and you too can take awesome photos. :lol:


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## dmina (Oct 22, 2014)

Precarious said:


> Just throw thousands of dollars at equipment and software then become a monk that commits all your time into learning how to use it and you too can take awesome photos. :lol:


I am sure (at least hope) you enjoyed every step of the way.. hopefully you got a lot of enjoyment and satisfaction out of it. I know I appreciate all you have done in this hobby. If you are feeling like a monk and lonely... I will except an invite... I will come visit and observe with your mantis... Heck I will even bring dinner! Maybe you could even help me with my photography... hehe


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## sally (Oct 22, 2014)

Rick said:


> Just read the entire thread. Despite the issues with the ooths you should make a care sheet in the care sheet forum. The ooth placement is really interesting.


I have them and for one would love some input or a caresheet. I am just winging it with hardly any info. I am having a really hard time finding any care tips anywhere( except from the person I received them from and there is a language barrier).


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## Precarious (Oct 22, 2014)

dmina said:


> I am sure (at least hope) you enjoyed every step of the way.. hopefully you got a lot of enjoyment and satisfaction out of it. I know I appreciate all you have done in this hobby. If you are feeling like a monk and lonely... I will except an invite... I will come visit and observe with your mantis... Heck I will even bring dinner! Maybe you could even help me with my photography... hehe


That would be quite drive! Rest assured, I absolutely LOVE working with these insects and feel it's been my honor to observe and document every possible aspect of their life cycle. I've gotten more from my interactions with them than any previous pets (and most humans), and if not for them I would never have ventured into photography and video. They directly influenced who I have become over these past 4 years. I really owe them quite a bit which is just one more reason to love and respect them. I also really appreciate that others get something from what I do. It mean a lot to me. And without that I wouldn't be making money from my YouTube videos.

I'm always happy to help anyone with photography so feel free to ask questions.



sally said:


> I have them and for one would love some input or a caresheet. I am just winging it with hardly any info. I am having a really hard time finding any care tips anywhere( except from the person I received them from and there is a language barrier).


You won't find any info. To my knowledge no one has bred them in captivity. I could be wrong about that. I sent you a PM.


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## mantisman 230 (Oct 22, 2014)

Adrian over in Germany seems to have had progress with these, I have seen him selling Haania confusa nymphs. He must have bred them and had them a bit to sell them in the first place. I like the newer sp. better though, those eyes are WICKED.


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## Digger (Oct 22, 2014)

Henry ---------- Equipment? BAH !! You have the soul of a master. You could do this with a pinhole camera. Thousands of $$ of equipment? More like thousands of hours of trial and error and tenacity and perseverance and sweat and tears.

Studying your work is a joy.


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## Precarious (Oct 22, 2014)

Digger said:


> Henry ---------- Equipment? BAH !! You have the soul of a master. You could do this with a pinhole camera. Thousands of $$ of equipment? More like thousands of hours of trial and error and tenacity and perseverance and sweat and tears.
> 
> Studying your work is a joy.


Thanks! I appreciate that.


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## Precarious (Oct 22, 2014)

And with amazing timing I am hit with horrible new developments. One of the two nymphs was dead in the cup this morning. The second, the one in the photo, molted and had rear legs stuck. I don't expect it to survive next molt.  Does anyone still think I am able to write a meaningful care sheet? I think not.


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## Precarious (Oct 22, 2014)

mantisman 230 said:


> Adrian over in Germany seems to have had progress with these, I have seen him selling Haania confusa nymphs. He must have bred them and had them a bit to sell them in the first place. I like the newer sp. better though, those eyes are WICKED.


Glad to hear someone is having some success!


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## Precarious (Oct 22, 2014)

Worse news. I just sexed them and they were a pair! The female is now dead.


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## dmina (Oct 22, 2014)

So sorry to hear that... oh man... bummer... so sorry...


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## sally (Oct 22, 2014)

Precarious said:


> Worse news. I just sexed them and they were a pair! The female is now dead.


That is really bad news  Sorry.


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## sally (Oct 22, 2014)

Precarious said:


> Glad to hear someone is having some success!


Adian gets them from a supplier pretty sure, I don't know if he has actually bred them.


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## Precarious (Oct 23, 2014)

dmina said:


> So sorry to hear that... oh man... bummer... so sorry...





sally said:


> That is really bad news  Sorry.


Thanks. It is a huge bummer. Was really looking forward to seeing how they look as adults. Hopefully I can get more in the spring.


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## jsorigami (Oct 25, 2014)

I think Adrian gets his from "Tanzania Reptiles" on FB. Not entirely sure, but that person had them too. They come from somewhere..


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## Orin (Oct 25, 2014)

Precarious said:


> I'll make you a deal. If you can get a publisher to back this magazine I'll supply all the photos...


You could always write me a nice article on your moss mantis experience and I could put it in inverterbrates magazine with a moss mantis cover.


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## mantisman 230 (Oct 25, 2014)

There's is a MAGAZINE FOR THAT!!!!!! sweet! Perhaps Adrian did receive his form them, but it seems he has been keeping them, Sally how are your nymphs?


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## Precarious (Oct 25, 2014)

Orin said:


> You could always write me a nice article on your moss mantis experience and I could put it in inverterbrates magazine with a moss mantis cover.


I'd be up for that. Happy to share photos and my limited experience. I just don't feel I have any solid stats on care. Would hate to lead anyone down the wrong path and they end up with infertile ooths like me.


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## Mireillevdw (Oct 26, 2014)

wow, great pictures!


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## bobericc (Nov 20, 2014)

Hey i just seen this video too

Is this Majangella sp?

Looks to be a bigger moss mantis


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## Precarious (Nov 20, 2014)

bobericc said:


> Is this Majangella sp?
> 
> Looks to be a bigger moss mantis


That would be my guess. Another species we may soon have in the hobby.


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## dmina (Nov 20, 2014)

... How exciting!... Anyone know someone in Ecuador? To hooked up with these ones..

I think the moss mantis is one of my favorites..I think they look so unique, but I think the reason(OCD) it stays on my mind (OCD)... is the "can't" have factor...

Damn Obsessive Compulsive Disorder!


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## mantiseater (Nov 20, 2014)

Definitely not majangela. That is from south America. majangela live in Asia. that is pogonogaster sp.


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## Precarious (Nov 20, 2014)

dmina said:


> ... How exciting!... Anyone know someone in Ecuador? To hooked up with these ones..
> 
> I think the moss mantis is one of my favorites..I think they look so unique, but I think the reason(OCD) it stays on my mind (OCD)... is the "can't" have factor...
> 
> Damn Obsessive Compulsive Disorder!


I know it's in the works. We'll see how soon it pans out.



mantiseater said:


> Definitely not majangela. That is from south America. majangela live in Asia. that is pogonogaster sp.


Tomato, potato? Me want!


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## mantiseater (Nov 20, 2014)

Precarious said:


> Tomato, potato? Me want!


haha


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## Precarious (Nov 20, 2014)

mantiseater said:


> haha


I don't say that to belittle your knowledge. I definitely appreciate your ID.  Just havin' some fun.


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## dmina (Nov 20, 2014)

Isn't that what we are here for? To be there in good and bad times, for each other... sometimes just to give a hard time.. just for fun!


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