# Lost my L4/5 Chinese....don't understand it!!



## squidlinus (Sep 21, 2007)

My chinese male just died and I can't figure out how it happened. He has been fine over the last couple of days, moving around and eating.

I have been feeding him moths and grasshoppers from outside for a couple of weeks and he didn't seem to have any problems tackling them. I had recently put two grasshoppers in there and they were gone quite quickly.

I checked on him last night and he was just hanging by his forearms from the top of his enclosure, so I helped him get a better grip and he seemed a bit lethargic. Then when i saw him later he was lying lifeless on the floor. I picked him up and he had some movement but was in a bad way, then I noticed one of his rear legs was missing up to the joint and he had a small hole at the top of his abdomen! he smelt a bit funny aswell.

I can't figure out why his leg was gone although it was slightly bent after his last molt and they sometimes remove them themselves I believe, but i dont know how this hole had appeared as it was not there a few days ago, his eyes had become blacker than they were before aswell.

They only feeders that were in his enclosure were a moth and a few mealworms?

Does anyone know of any infections/diseases that could cause the wound on his abdomen?

Any input would help as i don't want this to happen again, the humidity was quite high (75%) maybe i have misted too much and caused fungus etc.?

I am a bit upset to be honest, shouldn't get so attached i suppose....


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## Rick (Sep 21, 2007)

Could of been a million reasons why he died. I am sure somebody here will tell you there was a fungus or an infection but nobody really knows what causes these things. The humidity was too high IMO but it may or may not have had anything to do with it.


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## mrblue (Sep 21, 2007)

i hear chinese mantids are very prone to popping their clogs for not much reason, dont worry about it too much. maybe try a hardier species.

edit: high humidity and an open wound sound like a bad combination. well actually, any open wound on a mantis sounds pretty bad.


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## Rick (Sep 21, 2007)

> i hear chinese mantids are very prone to popping their clogs for not much reason, dont worry about it too much. maybe try a hardier species.edit: high humidity and an open wound sound like a bad combination. well actually, any open wound on a mantis sounds pretty bad.


What is 'popping their clogs'?


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## squidlinus (Sep 21, 2007)

'popping their clogs means dying'.

Thanks for the input guys... the open wound is still a bit of a mystery?

Hopefully will have better luck next time.


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## hibiscusmile (Sep 21, 2007)

I thought Poppin their clogs ment losing a leg?


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## Rick (Sep 21, 2007)

Well whatever it is I don't think they have a tendency to do it. You just were unlucky with this one.


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## OGIGA (Sep 21, 2007)

Parasite coming out of the abdomen? I really don't know...


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## Mantida (Sep 22, 2007)

Sounds kinda like a parasite to me.

Grasshoppers are big carriers and usually the targets for wasp larvae (in my experience at least). I would avoid them in the future.

I'm sorry for your lost. Seems like we all get a little too attached to our mantids.


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## Rick (Sep 22, 2007)

> Sounds kinda like a parasite to me.Grasshoppers are big carriers and usually the targets for wasp larvae (in my experience at least). I would avoid them in the future.
> 
> I'm sorry for your lost. Seems like we all get a little too attached to our mantids.


Based on what? I feed grasshoppers all summer and never have had anything like this happen. Yes, some of you do get way too attached to your insects.


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## Mantida (Sep 22, 2007)

> Based on what? I feed grasshoppers all summer and never have had anything like this happen. Yes, some of you do get way too attached to your insects.


Every mantis I've fed a grasshopper has either almost died or did die. An example of this was when my chinese ate a grasshopper and became completely and totally lethargic half an hour later (but recovered in a few days). And no, it wasn't a premolt, he was an adult. Also I've had several deaths that occured within an hour of eating the grasshopper.

Maybe a stroke of coincedence I guess, I've just had bad experiences with grasshoppers. I've also seen parasites come out of grasshoppers when my mantids were eating. :?


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## Andrew (Sep 22, 2007)

Kinda reminds me of the time I fed a superworm to one of my _I. oratoria _females and walked away for a few minutes. When I came back, I had a headless mantis. :shock:

Never again...


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## Precious (Sep 24, 2007)

> > Sounds kinda like a parasite to me.Grasshoppers are big carriers and usually the targets for wasp larvae (in my experience at least). I would avoid them in the future.
> >
> > I'm sorry for your lost. Seems like we all get a little too attached to our mantids.
> 
> ...


Grasshoppers quite commonly carry hairworms and mantids get them too. Their eggs are water born and carried usually insect to insect. Humans are not carriers. I don't think you have a hairworm, that drives the insect to water where the hairworm comes out and waits to lay eggs.

And what is too attached? If we didn't love our bugs, what's the point? I'm sorry about your troubles but I think Rick is right. It could be anything, who knows?


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## Mantida (Sep 24, 2007)

> Grasshoppers quite commonly carry hairworms and mantids get them too. Their eggs are water born and carried usually insect to insect. Humans are not carriers. I don't think you have a hairworm, that drives the insect to water where the hairworm comes out and waits to lay eggs.And what is too attached? If we didn't love our bugs, what's the point? I'm sorry about your troubles but I think Rick is right. It could be anything, who knows?


What she said!  

The definition of 'too attached to mantids' probably defines me. I often get EXTREMELY attached to my mantids, they are usually my first priority when I get home and they are my babies. 8)

I get really upset when one of them dies.


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## Asa (Sep 24, 2007)

Ya, doesn't sound like an infection simply because of the quickness. My infections progress slowly.


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## squidlinus (Sep 25, 2007)

Maybe it was an infection, as I had been feeding him grasshoppers for quite a while during the summer...it was probably just one bad one perhaps?.

Anyway you live and learn, I was trying to give him gut loaded food to beef him up a bit...quite ironic that it had the reverse effect.

You live and learn i suppose..


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## Precious (Sep 25, 2007)

I would not sweat the "answer" as to why your Chinese died. Bugs die. I was merely pointing out that while grasshoppers commonly carry a particular parasite (I don't know about others). That doesn't mean they killed him. They are a typical food source for the wild mantid and I don't think you should avoid them, I don't think there's any evidence to suggest your guy had a parasite. It's just nature, don't overthink it just remember him fondly. I'm sure he loved every bite of those hoppers! I'm sorry you lost him.  I feel your pain.


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