# Arm Injury



## marsha (Nov 11, 2018)

Hi, I'm new here and looking for advice on what to do about a PM that looks to have it's arm broken.

I have been interested in capturing some PM before winter comes, so this year I did. I have seven, which is quite enough, so I stopped looking.  Set up living quarters in an aquarium with dividers, and made a unit. They're all doing really good, eating crickets and drinking sprayed water, and laying nests. But this morning I saw one on the bottom looking weak.  I also noticed it must've started a nest but it doesn't look completed.  I got her out to observe and notice it's her left front leg seems lifeless.  Did she fall while making a nest? I used screen material on the homemade unit.  Is this ok? Was thinking/wondering if the legs get stuck? Maybe she was hanging upside down making a nest, fell over and one arm got stuck and broke it. I have no idea, just guessing. The three others in this unit are fine. They are all separated by dividers.  

So wondering what may have happened, obviously happened during nest making, and is there any way to try to save it? Was reading they eat ground wet cat food? She cannot hold prey (crickets) now. She seems weak, but if I hold her she does expend some energy. I suppose I will wake up tomorrow and she's gone, but if not, any ideas on the arm? 

Thank you.


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## Mantis Lady (Nov 12, 2018)

Give no cat food, Mantids don't eat that. Cut the cricket and half and hand feed her. Hold abdomen of crickets in tweezers before her mouth and she will eat, if she is hungry. Give her honey-water too.

.Can we see a picture of your wounded mantis?


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## Synapze (Nov 12, 2018)

Oh no. Is the mantis an adult? If not, could it have fallen during a molt?

Also, what do you mean by "nest making"?


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## marsha (Nov 12, 2018)

Synapze said:


> Oh no. Is the mantis an adult? If not, could it have fallen during a molt?
> 
> Also, what do you mean by "nest making"?


She apparently went to make an egg sac but it doesn't look complete, or not very big. She is an adult. They're all adults with wings that were on my bushes, living there all summer.  They do this every year. So I wondered, since they die off in late fall (if not sooner) what would be like to bring them indoors.  Finally did it this year.  So far, she's the only one who hasn't faired well. The 6 others are just hanging around (literally! LOL) and eating crickets. I have a humidifier in their area. I'm also spraying water through the screens which leave water droplets for them to drink.  If I wasn't a home-body, I'd not be doing this!


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## marsha (Nov 12, 2018)

Little Mantis said:


> Give no cat food, Mantids don't eat that. Cut the cricket and half and hand feed her. Hold abdomen of crickets in tweezers before her mouth and she will eat, if she is hungry. Give her honey-water too.
> 
> .Can we see a picture of your wounded mantis?


Thank you for the advice of no cat food.  A particular website of a woman who keeps them (or kept them, was not recent) said she did this.  I've not given any, so glad I didn't. I did put a cricket on tweezers in front of her yesterday but she didn't want it. After I read on here about honey, I did get up early this morning, checked on her, she's still alive, so I offered some unfiltered honey on the end of a stick.  She didn't really seem to want it though.  Not sure if I offended her by putting it onto her mouth anyway.  She did start licking her face. 

Could you tell me how to give her honey water? Like what's the ratio? Do I put it in a spoon under her mouth? Thank you.  Will send a pic.


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## Synapze (Nov 12, 2018)

marsha said:


> She is an adult﻿﻿﻿. They're all adults with wings that w﻿ere on my﻿ bushes﻿﻿﻿, living there all summer﻿.﻿﻿


Since it's impossible to know when she hatched, it's very possible that she could be near end of life. 

If I were you, I would go ahead and keep the ooth and delay hatching by keeping in the fridge. You can then hatch it out to release next spring. Even an incomplete ooth may still hatch if she's mated.


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## marsha (Nov 12, 2018)

Synapze said:


> Since it's impossible to know when she hatched, it's very possible that she could be near end of life. ðŸ˜•
> 
> If I were you, I would go ahead and keep the ooth and delay hatching by keeping in the fridge. You can then hatch it out to release next spring. Even an incomplete ooth may still hatch if she's mated.Â


So that's what it's called? Ooth?Â Thank you! All these years we'veÂ just called them egg sacs or nests.Â Yes, I have already scraped off 3 of them put them in a nettedÂ garlic bag and put it in the garageÂ because it stays cold in there. We've done this for manyÂ years, and theÂ following spring we put them out in areas that are away from where we mow.Â Â  We've never had one hatch early in there. Â Sometimes we keep one to see them hatch. Yes, I'm going to guessÂ all the first ooths are fertile. Â Don't know how long they remain fertile after they mate. Do you? Like how many fertile ooths can they make after mating? None of the ones we brought in areÂ males. Â So pretty sure they mated and were devoured, and females were the only ones left behind.Â Â All of them probably hatchedÂ in mid to late April.Â 

Could you please explain how to feed it honey water? Thank you so much.Â


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## marsha (Nov 12, 2018)

View attachment IMG_1119.mov


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## marsha (Nov 12, 2018)




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## marsha (Nov 12, 2018)

View attachment IMG_1121.mov


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## Graceface (Nov 12, 2018)

I disolve about one drop of honey into a tablespoon or so of water. Dip a Q-tip into the honey water, then hold the Q-tip up to her mandibles (aka mouth). I usually wet the other end of the Q-tip with filtered water and offer the water end after they drink the honey water mixture in case they are thirsty or need to clean any sticky residue from their mandibles. 

Hope that helps!


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## marsha (Nov 12, 2018)

Graceface said:


> I disolve about one drop of honey into a tablespoon or so of water. Dip a Q-tip into the honey water, then hold the Q-tip up to her mandibles (aka mouth). I usually wet the other end of the Q-tip with filtered water and offer the water end after they drink the honey water mixture in case they are thirsty or need to clean any sticky residue from their mandibles.
> 
> Hope that helps!


Yes, that def helps.  So it's a very diluted mixture.  OK, great.  Will give it a try.  Thank you.


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## Synapze (Nov 12, 2018)

marsha said:


> Don't﻿ know how long they remain fertile after they mate. ﻿D﻿﻿o﻿ you﻿?


If she's mated, most likely all of her ooths will be fertile.


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## Mantis Lady (Nov 12, 2018)

These are handy when giving honey water: hold it onder her mouth, so she can drink from it.


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## marsha (Nov 12, 2018)

Little Mantis said:


> These are handy when giving honey water: hold it onder her mouth, so she can drink from it.


Should it be overly saturated, like dripping? I only have Q-tips presently.  Is honey water a staple item when housing PM? 

Thank you.


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## Prayingmantisqueen (Nov 12, 2018)

Honey water is definitely a staple for sick mantids or even as a precaution measure. You could do it a little stronger if you would like. I would say I do it relatively strong 1 tsp to 2 tsp water or maybe a little more water... 

And also she could be near end of life too. Both my "caught outside" mantids have died this week. It must be an instinctive clock that tells them when its over...?!


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## Mantis Lady (Nov 12, 2018)

Honey water can be given to sick mantids, it can help mantids get well and for energy. I had one mantis that was vomiting and honey water helped to get better. I have only honey at home for my mantids.

I put the tip in the honey/water and if i think there is enough, I let the mantis drink.


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 12, 2018)

I had a ghost mantis a while back that overheated in the spring sunshine and lost use of her four back legs. I fed her honey water and within a month she had fully recovered. She now has laid me five ooths and is still going strong!

- MantisGirl13


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## Graceface (Nov 12, 2018)

Prayingmantisqueen said:


> Honey water is definitely a staple for sick mantids or even as a precaution measure. You could do it a little stronger if you would like. I would say I do it relatively strong 1 tsp to 2 tsp water or maybe a little more water...


I go lower on the honey just to be safe that I don't get my mantis sticky, as i made that mistake before, lol! I could probably up the honey ratio on mine 

Qtips should be fine. I saturate mine until they are really wet, then tap them lightly with a finger to get any excess off (just so that I don't drip it on my mantis and make them sticky)


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## marsha (Nov 12, 2018)

Prayingmantisqueen said:


> Honey water is definitely a staple for sick mantids or even as a precaution measure. You could do it a little stronger if you would like. I would say I do it relatively strong 1 tsp to 2 tsp water or maybe a little more water...
> 
> And also she could be near end of life too. Both my "caught outside" mantids have died this week. It must be an instinctive clock that tells them when its over...?!


Thing is, there are 6 more caught within days apart. They all seem fine.  Hungry for the crickets are I put them in.  This one here, she was the first to lay an ooth.  She was doing perfectly fine as the others.  Then Sat or Sun morning there she was laying on the dirt. In the corner up higher, was her 2nd ooth. But it was small as if she fell in the middle of making it.  Or maybe it just took the life out of her and she dropped.  First thing noted was her left are was limp. She held on to my hand very tightly with her other 'claw'. Later on, and def yesterday, neither of her 'praying arms' were in working order, but her right arm is better than the left and still moves, just not as strong.  Yes, perhaps like Charlotte in Charlottes web, they just lay their last ooth and say goodbye to the world. I imagine in the wild, they might do just that, lay their last ooth and then spitter and sputter till the cold temperatures end their life. Perhaps they lay lifeless like this on the ground.  We have so many praying mantis here but I've never seen a dead one in the fall. I've often wondered where they go. I usually rake out from under the barberry bush, this is one of their favorite places to live the entire summer, but I never see a dead one in the debris. 

OK, so I can make the honey water a big stronger.  Will do.  I have Manuka Honey in two levels, 12 and 20+ and also Raw Unfiltered Organic. Which would you use? 

Also wondering about nighttime. How imperative is it that they stay in the dark after sunset? We do have the lights on and I wonder if it's not good. 

Thank you.


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 12, 2018)

I would go with the organic. It is much less likely to have chemicals or artificial things. 

I don't think that lights would be a problem.

- MantisGirl13


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## Prayingmantisqueen (Nov 12, 2018)

marsha said:


> and also Raw Unfiltered Organic. Which would you use?


Either or are fine. I personally use our honey from my Dads bees. So it is Raw and probably organic too.



marsha said:


> We do have the lights on and I wonder if it's not good. ﻿﻿﻿


I have been turning off my lights around the normal summer sunset time... 9pm ish... I dont know that it matters much...?


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## Prayingmantisqueen (Nov 12, 2018)

Graceface said:


> don't﻿ get my mantis sticky, as i made that mistake be﻿fore, ﻿lol! I could probably up the honey ratio on mine﻿


I do it less honey more water for nymphs tho.


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 12, 2018)

Prayingmantisqueen said:


> I do it less honey more water for nymphs tho.


Ya, me too because the honey can be too sticky for the little guys.

- MantisGirl13


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## marsha (Nov 12, 2018)

MantisGirl13 said:


> I had a ghost mantis a while back that overheated in the spring sunshine and lost use of her four back legs. I fed her honey water and within a month she had fully recovered. She now has laid me five ooths and is still going strong!
> 
> - MantisGirl13


That is amazing! Congratulations!


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 12, 2018)

marsha said:


> That is amazing! Congratulations!


Thanks! I was amazed that she pulled through, but here she is! 

- MantisGirl13


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## Mantis Lady (Nov 12, 2018)

MantisGirl13 said:


> I had a ghost mantis a while back that overheated in the spring sunshine and lost use of her four back legs. I fed her honey water and within a month she had fully recovered. She now has laid me five ooths and is still going strong!
> 
> - MantisGirl13


good to hear.


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## marsha (Nov 12, 2018)

MantisGirl13 said:


> I would go with the organic. It is much less likely to have chemicals or artificial things.
> 
> I don't think that lights would be a problem.
> 
> - MantisGirl13


OK, the organic it is. That is what I used earlier.  I just got through using a Qtip, and it was much easier and I could tell she was getting some.  She is not interested in halved crickets though. Pushed herself away from it. How long can they go without food? 

Thank you all for the great advice.


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## marsha (Nov 12, 2018)

Little Mantis said:


> These are handy when giving honey water: hold it onder her mouth, so she can drink from it.


Just tried the Qtips.  Works great. I could see she was taking some in.  Thank you!


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## marsha (Nov 12, 2018)

Graceface said:


> I go lower on the honey just to be safe that I don't get my mantis sticky, as i made that mistake before, lol! I could probably up the honey ratio on mine
> 
> Qtips should be fine. I saturate mine until they are really wet, then tap them lightly with a finger to get any excess off (just so that I don't drip it on my mantis and make them sticky)


Yes, that is just what I did.  Very good application the Qtip is. I basically went 40/60. Little more water than honey. When I was done I wet the other end with water and kinda wipe around her face, dipped in water again, and let her drink if she wanted it.  She seemed to like it. After a moment she just stopped being interested. Will repeat all this in the morning.


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 12, 2018)

marsha said:


> Just tried the Qtips.  Works great. I could see she was taking some in.  Thank you!


Good! I am glad it worked!

- MantisGirl13


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## marsha (Nov 12, 2018)

Prayingmantisqueen said:


> Either or are fine. I personally use our honey from my Dads bees. So it is Raw and probably organic too.
> 
> I have been turning off my lights around the normal summer sunset time... 9pm ish... I dont know that it matters much...?


Nice having your own source of honey  Def must be all the good things in it.  Well, they have been operating under our conditions and so far they're ok.  Maybe they think think it's cool?  I know sometimes they would be on the wall of the porch at night hanging around the light where bugs were.  So maybe it is fine.


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## marsha (Nov 12, 2018)

I would just like to take a moment to say thank you to all of you contributing to my post.  Has been very helpful!  

I tried to like your replies but it say I cannot like any more posts, so I just thought I'd let you all know. Really appreciate it so much!

Have a nice evening all.


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 12, 2018)

We all love to help anytime!

- MantisGirl13


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## Prayingmantisqueen (Nov 12, 2018)

MantisGirl13 said:


> We all love to help anytime!
> 
> - MantisGirl13


Yep!


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## Graceface (Nov 12, 2018)

marsha said:


> When I was done I wet the other end with water and kinda wipe around her face, dipped in water again, and let her drink if she wanted it.  She seemed to like it. After a moment she just stopped being interested. Will repeat all this in the morning.


Sounds like you did it right! It's really helped some of my mantids. Hope your girl pulls through


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## Mantis Lady (Nov 13, 2018)

Just tried the Qtips.  Works great. I could see she was taking some in.  Thank you! ﻿

Good she was drinking, it will give her more energy and fluids I hope she will will make it. Keep us updated


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## marsha (Nov 24, 2018)

Hi Folks,

Update, she died a couple of days later. Very slow death, as since then another died, and it was very quick. One day she was clinging to the wall rather than the top. I noticed she was in the same position the next morning, and it was dead. 

I doubt these older, and 'wild' mantises will live much longer.  All of them seem to be not as green as they were at first. There are 5 out of 7 left.  The last two days I've noticed they don't seem as enthusiastic about catching a crickets, and seem to not move around as much.  I'm enjoying the experience though. None of them have plants in there cages. I think I will buy a few and see if it makes a difference.


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## Mantis Lady (Nov 25, 2018)

Sorry for your losses  



marsha said:


> I'm enjoying the experience though.


Enjoy them while they are still with you. They are warm at your home and being fed.


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