# Roaches



## DefyTheNorms (Dec 19, 2017)

I probably should have thought of this before getting into mantids, but can they thrive on flies, meal/max worms, and a few crickets? I have an irrational fear of roaches, so I don't know if it's something I'll be able to "keep" let alone handle - even with 10" feeding tongs!


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## Connor (Dec 19, 2017)

No mantis don’t necessarily need roaches. But it’s a lot easier and healthier to feed adult females with them


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## DefyTheNorms (Dec 19, 2017)

Connor said:


> No mantis don’t necessarily need roaches. But it’s a lot easier and healthier to feed adult females with them


Maybe I'll start with trying a few of the smaller species. I did see one of the mantis sites selling Banana roaches (green ones), for some reason they don't trigger my phobia like the brown ones. Maybe I could try those, but not sure how big they are (ideal size for large adult mantids).


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## Connor (Dec 19, 2017)

I use dubias.... I’m not a fan of roaches but it’s not like I try and look at them... I just take one out with tweezers and try and get the mantis to eat it!


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## Aristalochia (Dec 19, 2017)

Banana roaches aka Panchlora nivea are cute ones and adults are under an inch. Theres also a species being called 'giant banana roach' that gets over an inch. They are fast and move erraticly, plus they like to fly, so they are great feeders for mantids.


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## CosbyArt (Dec 20, 2017)

@DefyTheNorms You have reached the cricket or roach feeder stage, and it seems people are one or the other.  

Just so you know even the Green Banana Roach (Panchlora nivea ) looks like a typical roach, only the adult roaches are green but they are also strong fliers. Their nymphs look nothing like the adults in color and look (without the wings), see here.

For other common roach species that are considered good feeders, see smaller species and larger species. As you are in Florida though your roach options are much more limited, from Florida state laws on roaches. One of which seems you are not allowed to own are the Dubia (the most common of all feeder roaches). See here for a starting point on roaches and Florida with links. Also sellers will usually list the species are not available to Florida residents, like the Dubia here.

I've seen several claim roaches breed faster than crickets, but I'm guessing they never have successfully kept crickets. From hatching crickets take 5 weeks to start laying eggs, Dubia and others take 10 weeks - both take longer if kept below 80F+ temperatures.

Other things such as smell (caused by dead crickets, remove dead ones part of their husbandry care anyway), nutrition (really only useful in reptiles that require calcium, then dusting crickets defeats that argument), and more are given reasons for why roaches are "better". It boils down to what you feel more comfortable with and prefer (and can legally keep in Florida), as nearly all reasons are not valid or have a solution why one feeder is better than the other.

See here for a list of reasons why Dubia are "better" than crickets from a biased Dubia seller, but again it is a species you can not have in Florida legally. If you are interested in keeping roaches, I'd suggest you check out our sister forum AllPet Roaches Forum for tips, help, and more. If you want to know more about crickets, breeding them, etc. take a look here, and feel free to ask (as I have self-sustaining colonies of feeder crickets with little effort).


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## DefyTheNorms (Dec 20, 2017)

@CosbyArt  Ugh roaches  :wacko:    I tired to convince myself that the green ones would be better lol. Thanks for the heads up on roaches &amp; the FL law. I didn't even think of that. As always you are wealth of information. I can do crickets, but I thought I read that feeding crickets too often can problems with the mantids?


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## CosbyArt (Dec 20, 2017)

DefyTheNorms said:


> @CosbyArt  Ugh roaches  :wacko:    I tired to convince myself that the green ones would be better lol. Thanks for the heads up on roaches &amp; the FL law. I didn't even think of that. As always you are wealth of information. I can do crickets, but I thought I was read that feeding crickets too often can problems with the mantids?


I did too with the Banana roaches, thinking I could sneak them into my house without my wife knowing (she will not have roaches in the house). After I looked more into them I quickly realized it was a bad idea.  

Roaches in Florida is likely the only time I have seen firsthand evidence of someone being arrested for insects, and the person was given two felony charges and a first-degree misdemeanor . See here for the news article.

Crickets get a bad rap as they are so commonly available, and usually not properly cared for as it is cheaper to replace dead crickets than to care for them. Crickets usually cost $0.01-$0.12 each depending on seller/quantity, with larger stores able to buy stock at prices of several for a single penny. Due to crickets *much* larger use (and mistreatment) than roaches, more "horror" stories are found online. I know the dozen or so pet stores (local and chain stores) I've visited not a single one sold roaches, but all sold crickets. I mention that merely as the amount of people feeding crickets vs roaches must be ridiculously huge.

One issue to the bad cricket stories, is no mantids or crickets are expertly examined or tested (bacteria culture, autopsy, etc.) to reveal the cause of any death/illness, with the most obvious blame placed on the cricket feeder. In most instances it can safely be assumed husbandry care with the mantid, or the cricket itself, was the actual cause with the cricket stories. I say that because even if the cricket was the means of death/illness that is likely due to the husbandry care the cricket received to develop the issue.

Crickets are also farm-raised for human consumption (roaches are not, which says something), and toted by many as the food that may end world food shortage and hunger, see NewYorkPost, CBC (Canada), and the DailyMail.UK for just a few aspects. I mention that as many people and stories online claim crickets are dirtier than roaches with bacteria, disease, and other concerns.

In feeding mantids many keepers have used crickets for years without incident (or possibly few, as will happen with anything). I have used them myself for over three years now to feed hundreds of mantids I've kept (not counting the many thousands of mantids I've raised then released or sold) with only one instance did I blame a cricket, and honestly I highly doubt it was the cause.

Most keepers in the exotic pet hobby have used crickets for many years as well without issue, as I have heard and read from several; however, finding a forum post is nearly impossible it seems after 30+ minutes. I did though find this one...


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## DefyTheNorms (Dec 20, 2017)

CosbyArt said:


> Roaches in Florida is likely the only time I have seen firsthand evidence of someone being arrested for insects, and the person was given two felony charges and a first-degree misdemeanor


Wow! Definitely won't risk it     

I'm not too keen on having roaches in the house anyhow. Being in Florida, there are so many bugs and we occasionally get HUGE roaches in the house and that's more than enough for me! So with that being said, it's settled - no feeder roaches! I will find a good source to purchase crickets and maybe learn to raise my own (as long as I don't start thinking of them as pets LOL)... I'm looking at the stable flies that just hatched out and as I'm watching them eat &amp; drink, I see them sit on the side of the dish washing their faces and I'm thinking "N'aww they're kinda cute!"... then I feel bad for them when I feed the mantids. LOL I'm weird like that.


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## CosbyArt (Dec 20, 2017)

DefyTheNorms said:


> Wow! Definitely won't risk it


There is more to the story than just roaches. That is he forged a permit and such as explained in the news article; however, the state actively searches for such things that get shipped for good reason.



DefyTheNorms said:


> I'm not too keen on having roaches in the house anyhow. Being in Florida, there are so many bugs and we occasionally get HUGE roaches in the house and that's more than enough for me! So with that being said, it's settled - no feeder roaches! I will find a good source to purchase crickets and maybe learn to raise my own (as long as I don't start thinking of them as pets LOL)... I'm already looking at the stable flies that just hatched out and as I'm watching them eat &amp; drink, I see them sit on the side of the dish washing their faces and i'm thinking "N'aww they're kinda cute! - then I feel bad for them when I feed the mantids. LOL I'm weird.


It is your decision. I just provided the counter-point as such much data online is pro roach, and honestly I couldn't find a worthwhile article pro cricket to link to. Just weight the options of each and make your decision, but it seems the ick factor is a good one by itself for many.  Of course, if you change your mind you could always try roaches later on too.

A great seller for crickets I deal with is Ghann's cricket farm. For most things though, properly caring for crickets bought at pet stores can be fine too. If the crickets are allowed to drink/eat/live in your care for at least 2-3 days (to flush their systems).

Incidentally my local pet store claims the cricket farm they buy from tests some crickets from each batch to ensure they are disease, parasite, bacterial, etc free. I honestly find that hard to believe, or that it has any bearing after their transport, store care, etc when I get and use them.

Yes, I look at my crickets as pets anymore, and even listed them awhile back as you may remember. Even with feeding my other pets their fill, I'd guess 90% or more of my crickets live a long normal life-cycle and die from old age. There is just no way I could have enough pets to use that many.

If you have any questions on proper care, breeding, or whatever on crickets just ask. I haven't had a chance to put together a cricket tutorial yet to give you a link to.


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## DefyTheNorms (Dec 20, 2017)

CosbyArt said:


> Yes, I look at my crickets as pets anymore, and even listed them awhile back as you may remember.


Yes, I remember that - I thought it sounded like something I'd do     - I kinda have a fondness for crickets.  

Thanks for the link, and I'll definitely hit you up for more cricket "how tos" when the time comes.


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## CosbyArt (Dec 20, 2017)

@DefyTheNorms Yes it happens, and so far the only feeder I would call a pet - that is besides my springtails and isopods which are primarily for cleaning duties beyond pets.  Keeping exotic pets to start with gives a new perspective on other insects too.  

There are other crickets you can also get often sold as pets, or locally often labelled as "pests". Such as the Jerusalem cricket, mole cricket, and camel cricket to name a few.

Your welcome, and sounds good - I'm always ready to type too much, which I blame on my enthusiasm.


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## DefyTheNorms (Dec 20, 2017)

CosbyArt said:


> besides my springtails and isopods which are primarily for cleaning duties beyond pets.


Oh! That's something else I wanna do - add springtails to the terrariums. I've been reading up on it, and had a bit of a discussion about it on one of my previous posts. I'm totally looking at all insects in a totally different light now lol. 

BTW, I like to reading so enthusiastically type as much as you want


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## CosbyArt (Dec 20, 2017)

@DefyTheNorms Springtails are easy enough, see here. The main things are they need substrate, a bit of dampness, and will eat seemingly about anything dead or inanimate.  

Always good to see there is someone else who loves to read topics of interest.


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## DefyTheNorms (Jan 30, 2018)

CosbyArt said:


> If you have any questions on proper care, breeding, or whatever on crickets just ask.


So, I've been feeding crickets to my mantids... I've decided not to raise them, because I just don't have enough mantids to make it worth my while. I just pick up what I need for a couple of weeks from the local pet shop. I'm just unsure on what is best way to keep them (as far as housing &amp; food)? Right now I put them in a small container with a water soaked sponge and bits of apple. The only issue is how the heck do you serve them up? I lose more than are given to the mantids!  As soon as I open the container they all start jumping out lol. I gave up on trying to catch them with forceps/tweezers. It's not only hard, but I end up losing them on the way to transfer them to the enclosure, so now I just catch them with my hand! I usually get so frustrated with them that I let them go outside (set some free today) I'm about to call it quits with them lol. 

Then getting my mantids to eat them, is the other issue. only 2 of my 5 will chase them down. The others totally ignore them. I tried hand feeding the crickets to them, but the mantids freak out :/ They seem to prefer flying things. I just don't know if blue bottle flies &amp; the occasional meal worm can sustain them their entire lives.


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## Serle (Jan 30, 2018)

I just buy my crickets 50 at a time , my mantid population doesn't warrant raising them .


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## DefyTheNorms (Jan 30, 2018)

Serle said:


> I just buy my crickets 50 at a time , my mantid population doesn't warrant raising them .


That's what I've been doing, buying a few at a time. I'd buy more  at once, but I wasn't sure the best way to keep them fed &amp; healthy. How do you get them from their container to the mantis without them getting away? If I collected all the crickets I lost in the house I'd have enough to feed 5 mantis for a year, I swear!  :lol:


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## Serle (Jan 30, 2018)

Give me some time , I will show how to handle crickets with minimal loss........ S


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## Krissim Klaw (Jan 31, 2018)

DefyTheNorms said:


> So, I've been feeding crickets to my mantids... I've decided not to raise them, because I just don't have enough mantids to make it worth my while. I just pick up what I need for a couple of weeks from the local pet shop. I'm just unsure on what is best way to keep them (as far as housing &amp; food)? Right now I put them in a small container with a water soaked sponge and bits of apple. The only issue is how the heck do you serve them up? I lose more than are given to the mantids!  As soon as I open the container they all start jumping out lol. I gave up on trying to catch them with forceps/tweezers. It's not only hard, but I end up losing them on the way to transfer them to the enclosure, so now I just catch them with my hand! I usually get so frustrated with them that I let them go outside (set some free today) I'm about to call it quits with them lol.


The first thing I would suggest is getting a larger cage. Either something like a ten/five gallon tank with proper wall height or you can cheaply modify a sterilite container. Having something with enough height makes it so much easier to reach in and do stuff because you don't have to worry about the crickets hoping out in mass. As for catching if you are trying to transfer to another cage I find something like a little Dixie cup can work wonders. Just scoop the cricket up, hold your hand over the top so it can't jump out and then dump it into the cage. With a little patience you can even teach your mantises to snag their food right out of the cups. I have large mantis cages so I drop my feeders in the cups and hold them up to my mantises. Typically reach down and snatch the prey up with little fuss.


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## DefyTheNorms (Jan 31, 2018)

Krissim Klaw said:


> The first thing I would suggest is getting a larger cage. Either something like a ten/five gallon tank with proper wall height or you can cheaply modify a sterilite container. Having something with enough height makes it so much easier to reach in and do stuff because you don't have to worry about the crickets hoping out in mass. As for catching if you are trying to transfer to another cage I find something like a little Dixie cup can work wonders. Just scoop the cricket up, hold your hand over the top so it can't jump out and then dump it into the cage. With a little patience you can even teach your mantises to snag their food right out of the cups. I have large mantis cages so I drop my feeders in the cups and hold them up to my mantises. Typically reach down and snatch the prey up with little fuss.


Brilliant feeding tip! I'm going to try the cup... and I'll definitely try a deeper container.


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## CosbyArt (Jan 31, 2018)

@DefyTheNorms Yes, a taller wall container is needed. Personally I use the $5 Sterilite 56 quart containers modified for crickets. If you have like a ready made option the large Kricket Keeper and such exist (but I'm not a fan).

To capture crickets the easiest method is to use empty cardboard tubes for the cricket housing (paper towel, wrapping paper, toilet paper, etc tubes). The crickets crawl inside then all you have to do is cover the ends with your hands, and once over a habitat uncover the bottom and shake a few into the mantid habitat. The Kricket Keeper has reusable tubes built in for the same purpose.

If you use a larger container like I do the 56 quart one, another method is to simply remove the lid and shake egg crates/tubes into a tall container. I use empty 12" narrow cotton candy tubs I get from Walmart. Then I can either shake a few crickets into habitats, or much more easily grab them with tongs when the cup is angled (making running around the bottom of the cup impossible).

As you are using a sponge for water all I can say is to change it regularly. Sponges are infamous for quickly breeding bacteria, and not recommended. Cut potatoes are great for a water source, and besides food and water, can last several days before more is needed.

The crystals in your box will solve the cricket water problem the best. However there are other methods too for water. Such as you can easily put together a self waterer (see my below diagram), but I would recommend replacing the cotton with plastic mesh (sold as craft/needle mesh) as in my cricket tank below - or replace with small pebbles to the top of the water.

Indeed some mantids prefer flying prey and will only eat bottle flies, moths, etc. and in those cases it is best to give them what they want.  

Here is a photo of a old cricket tank of mine - I do not recommend placing any material in the bottom as seen in it. In the end moisture would build in it, and it developed a bad case of grain mites. I anymore use a very thin layer of vermiculite (bought from stores in the plant sections for about $7 for a large bag) is inert, give crickets a substance to move on, they do not dig/eat/or lay eggs in, and actually absorbs any smells.

If I missed anything just say something.


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## CosbyArt (Jan 31, 2018)

@DefyTheNorms Okay, well I went and got some new photos to show a cricket setup better - and to avoid things that I had to say not to use.  






Here is one of the three tubs of my cricket breeding tanks. The tank itself is a Sterilite 56 quart storage tub available from many retailers, I get mine from Walmart locally for $5. The only modification I do for my tanks is to cut out a large portion of the middle of the lid for ventilation, and so my heater does not affect it. In the opening I hot glue in aluminum screen mesh, I use it as crickets can not eat through it, and heat will not melt it.

The heat is only needed for breeding purposes, and as you are not doing that is of no concern - room temps are fine for non-breeding (45F or better, some put them in the basement to keep cool and prolong their life cycle as they molt much slower when cold). Although I use a 250W red heater bulb with a thermometer relay (on/off) that keeps it within two degrees for the optimum cricket temperature of 86F.

Besides the tank one the outside the small shelving unit I bought just for crickets I modify it due to my cats. My new kitten Salem, decided one day to climb on top and lay beside the heat, and when he got down knocked the tank into the floor. The easy fix was to attach dowel rods to the shelving unit, and run nylon string along the tops with metal eye/hoop screws. On the right-side there is a simple metal hook/loop which allows me to remove it by unhooking it.






Inside the tank you can see a thin layer of vermiculite substrate (available in plant areas of stores in bags), again it is inert and crickets do not dig/eat/lay eggs in it and it gives them traction and absorbs odors. If smells get to you I highly recommend it as it makes such a difference for my wife Melinda, she thinks it's awesome.

The egg crates are nothing fancy just the paper/cardboard kind and I buy them from a local farm store (Rural King or Tractor Supply) for about $0.40 each. Besides that I place a layer of paper tubes underneath those in case I need to use them to get crickets out easier.

In the corners are the 8oz deli cups one for food, and another for the cricket water gel. I do add 1" wide and 4" long strips of fiberglass mesh to the empty cups and cover with food/gel and let overhang for the smaller crickets can easily access them.






Here is the container I use to gather crickets, besides using the tube method described in my last post. It is a 4oz empty cotton candy container that is about 12" tall - which the crickets can not jump out of. I have used smaller cups/containers in the past but crickets can escape too easily that way.

I simply put the cup in the bottom and shake/smack egg crates or tubes over the container opening to gather crickets.






Looking into the cup after one shake I got about a dozen crickets in it. At which point I hold the cup at a angle (so the crickets no longer can run around the bottom of it) and use tongs to pick them out to feed my pets. Or the top of the container can be squeezed to nearly close it, and then can be used to shake a few into pet habitats too.


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## DefyTheNorms (Jan 31, 2018)

@CosbyArt Wow! That's quite a set-up you have there!     

I'll take the time to better look over all your information and make a smaller version based on your method. I had to order some blue bottle flies yesterday because, as I mentioned, I'm having issues getting most of mine to eat crickets, and even mealworms. Can the giant species be kept on just blue bottle flies and things like mealworms their entire life, or is that unhealthy for them? My giant species will eat the crickets, but just curious.


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## Serle (Jan 31, 2018)

I do like the sanitary look of your set up . Do you feed crickets exclusively after smaller feeders (drosophila) ?  No major prob's ?


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## Serle (Jan 31, 2018)

I very much want to stay from flying feeders .therefore mealworms and crickets work for me .


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## CosbyArt (Jan 31, 2018)

DefyTheNorms said:


> @CosbyArt Wow! That's quite a set-up you have there!
> 
> I'll take the time to better look over all your information and make a smaller version based on your method. I had to order some blue bottle flies yesterday because, as I mentioned, I'm having issues getting most of mine to eat crickets, and even mealworms. Can the giant species be kept on just blue bottle flies and things like mealworms their entire life, or is that unhealthy for them? My giant species will eat the crickets, but just curious.


Well thanks, but that is just a small part of it. The shelving unit has three tanks total (different instar sizes being eggs/pinheads, medium, and adults laying eggs (at least typically)) but are setup nearly the same - however getting a clear photo of them all in one is about impossible due to the location.  

Yes, you can feed them the same feeder their entire life (if appropriate sized) but is not ideal, but likely the most common option for many keepers even if they don't admit it.

That is I've raised many mantids on primarily one feeder for their instar size, when nothing else was available due to weather or lack of options. Ideally mantids should be fed a mixture of various feeders to ensure their nutritional needs are met, and keeps them more engaged in feeding/hunting skills. Of course some mantid species only eat flying prey, others will eat only crawling prey, but thankfully many species happily take both types.

Being winter feeder options especially for flying prey hunters is limited (online pupae for most keepers), so feed them what you have found that works.



Serle said:


> I do like the sanitary look of your set up . Do you feed crickets exclusively after smaller feeders (drosophila) ?  No major prob's ?


Thanks. It does do well this way and my wife Melinda does not complain (she fusses over smells), and anyone who does not know about the tanks do not realize anything is alive inside (or smell them) until I show them.  

For mantids at least half of the year yes I do feed only crickets, and no problems of any kind. Only once since I started in the hobby did I blame crickets for a mantid issue, but honestly I really doubt that was the cause even then. Many senior keepers are the same (I'm still a newbie), with no or very limited issues from feeding crickets, I know Rick is one. DeShawn has written a article about the cricket hate/misconception and went as far as to feed them to a flying prey mantid species with great results.

I offer my pets as much feeder choices as possible (depending on weather and options) to ensure their nutritional needs are met (as described below), but indeed any of the mantid species I've kept so far did well on just crickets. I haven't though kept any of the "flying prey only mantid species", as with the large amount of species available I've found no need for such a picky species or typical huge price.

I use my fly traps to offer houseflies and bottle flies to my pets in warmer moths, and occasion wild moths and other things as well, but even then crickets are a common feeder. Mealworms can be great if the mantids eat them (I've never had any luck with a individual of any species no matter how I've tried though) but I know my tarantulas enjoy them. A easy to culture feeder is waxworms for the adult wax moths, and they are like junk food to mantids.  If you have luck with mealworms with mantids, then the waxworms themselves are a option even before they change to moths.

I feed my mantids Springtails/Melanogaster FF, move up to Hydei FF, then appropriate sized crickets. When the mantid size is appropriate and a feeder is available I add them in when possible - but have not found it truly necessary; however, besides possible nutritional needs aside, who would want to eat the same thing everyday of their life?


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## Serle (Jan 31, 2018)

The only species that I had problems with were Blepharopsis m. they achieved L6 and would not eat any thing but fliers.. what a heart breaker ..  The one species that I haven't hatched yet is Creobroters , two tries and missed both ooths . (unknown reasons )... s


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## CosbyArt (Feb 1, 2018)

Serle said:


> The only species that I had problems with were Blepharopsis m. they achieved L6 and would not eat any thing but fliers.. what a heart breaker ..  The one species that I haven't hatched yet is Creobroters , two tries and missed both ooths . (unknown reasons )... s


From the two you mentioned I've kept Creobroter pictipennis (L2 to adult) and it did fine on crickets; although, it seemed to prefer flies when available it wasn't a deal breaker. They are said to however be a candidate that can eat Hydei FF their whole life as they are so small, caresheet here. I know like the Creobroter, and similarly small species (Acromantis japonica is another one I had that would be great) that can be kept with easy to culture Hydei FF.

I'm curious though are you looking for mantid species as you do not want to order fly pupae/or can't get them in Canada?


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## DefyTheNorms (Feb 1, 2018)

CosbyArt said:


> They are said to however be a candidate that can eat Hydei FF their whole life as they are so small,


My itty bitty Creobroter is eating blue bottle flies!   I'm still in shock. A fly is almost as big as her!


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## Serle (Feb 1, 2018)

CosbyArt said:


> From the two you mentioned I've kept Creobroter pictipennis (L2 to adult) and it did fine on crickets; although, it seemed to prefer flies when available it wasn't a deal breaker. They are said to however be a candidate that can eat Hydei FF their whole life as they are so small, caresheet here. I know like the Creobroter, and similarly small species (Acromantis japonica is another one I had that would be great) that can be kept with easy to culture Hydei FF.
> 
> I'm curious though are you looking for mantid species as you do not want to order fly pupae/or can't get them in Canada?


I would love to hatch a Creobroter , as I wrote earlier twice I have had ooth not produce . One did have a single nymph emerge halfway then die .  When the weather warms up I will try again.......  I really don't want fliers in my office , I have enough escapees in crickets.............  S


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## DefyTheNorms (Feb 1, 2018)

Serle said:


> I would love to hatch a Creobroter


Hope you get to hatch some! Finger crossed for your next attempt


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## CosbyArt (Feb 2, 2018)

DefyTheNorms said:


> My itty bitty Creobroter is eating blue bottle flies!   I'm still in shock. A fly is almost as big as her!


They do well with them as feeders, even if it is comical.  The only time I worried was when they caught the flies, as some flies would buzz their wings so fast my mantids nearly got pulled off their perches.



Serle said:


> I would love to hatch a Creobroter , as I wrote earlier twice I have had ooth not produce . One did have a single nymph emerge halfway then die .  When the weather warms up I will try again.......  I really don't want fliers in my office , I have enough escapees in crickets.............  S


Sorry to hear that, and indeed emerging nymphs that become stuck is heartbreaking. I've had it happen a few times with other species, and no matter how I tried to intervene it never helped. I hope the 3rd time is the charm for you, best of luck.

Okay that makes sense, any feeder can be inadvertently released. Well flightless flies are as advertised, but it seems all too common for various reasons (as you likely have read too) they can revert to their normal flying behavior. Besides contamination of other fruit flies into the culture (by laying eggs through the lid mesh), seems the more common problem is the flies being kept too warm causing them to loose the flightless mutation.


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## DefyTheNorms (Feb 2, 2018)

CosbyArt said:


> They do well with them as feeders, even if it is comical.  The only time I worried was when they caught the flies, as some flies would buzz their wings so fast my mantids nearly got pulled off their perches.


Yes! They almost fly off with her! But she's a tough &amp; feisty little girl. Apparently she doesn't like to eat fly wings, lol... I find them stuck to the sides of her enclosure


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## CosbyArt (Feb 2, 2018)

DefyTheNorms said:


> Yes! They almost fly off with her! But she's a tough &amp; feisty little girl. Apparently she doesn't like to eat fly wings, lol... I find them stuck to the sides of her enclosure


Hopefully they don't fly too far in your large habitats.  

I've only had one mantid that would go out of it's way to ensure the proximal end of wings was picked clean, but would not eat the wings either. The mantid would sit there and spin each wing end around in it's mouth before dropping it. At least wings make for great cleaning crew chow.


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## DefyTheNorms (Feb 3, 2018)

CosbyArt said:


> At least wings make for great cleaning crew chow.


True! My budwing doesn't eat fly wings or legs! lol..


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## CosbyArt (Feb 3, 2018)

DefyTheNorms said:


> True! My budwing doesn't eat fly wings or legs! lol..


Must be a slow eater, seems the faster they eat the more likely they are to shove about everything in their mouth (well except wings).


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