# WARNING: Nursery plants killed 24 of my 30 mantis



## bob4bugs (Aug 17, 2011)

I am posting this as a standalone warning so that others can avoid what we have gone through.

This is a follow-up on my previous posting under “Tank &amp; Herbs/plants?” as posting #6

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=22053&amp;st=0&amp;gopid=166500&amp;

A basic review is that we replaced our sponge world type of habitat with nursery plants for our 30 Tenodera sinensis. All mantis were a month old and had just completed their 3rd molt. We did this habitat change on August 14. On August 15, less than 18 hours later, 7 were dead. We immediately re-housed all, but they have continued to die, until, today, August 17, only 6 are still alive.

We appreciate all the replies that I received from that previous posting. The consensus was that the nursery had sprayed the plants with some chemical. (The nursery is a high end nursery.)

We have yet to contact the nursery to get the details, but it is obvious that the plants are causing the deaths of the mantis. And we did not want to waste any more time before getting this information onto the forum to alert others.

We will update this posting as conditions change.

Attached is a picture of the six potted plants involved.


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## Malti (Aug 17, 2011)

sorry for your loss...but did you ask if they were sprayed beforehand?


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## mkayum (Aug 17, 2011)

you should have asked them before you placed plants in their habitat, its preventable. Im sorry to hear that. it happens. Twigs or sticks, fake plants or bamboo skewers make excellent safe climbing objects.:]


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## hibiscusmile (Aug 17, 2011)

I don't think most people would think to ask about spraying in a nursery, we just don't expect that to be going on, we probably should, but I know I would not of thought about it.


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## Malti (Aug 17, 2011)

hibiscusmile said:


> I don't think most people would think to ask about spraying in a nursery, we just don't expect that to be going on, we probably should, but I know I would not of thought about it.


actually in a nursery its more of a chance that pesticides/fungicides are used as they want to keep stock healthy to sell.


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## twolfe (Aug 18, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your mantis dying. Thanks for sharing your story. Most of the plants I've placed in my terrariums are ones that I've had for a long time. But I did recently place a newer one in with my Idolos. Luckily nothing happened.


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## bob4bugs (Aug 20, 2011)

UPDATE ON OUR 24 out of 30 mantis deaths from posting #1

Today is August 20, and there has been no additional deaths since August 17. We hope that the problem is now solved. The remaining 6 seem to be doing well.

The following are the nursery comments:

1)	If and when we spray indoor plants, we take them outside for spraying and leave them there for 2 days before bringing them back in.

2)	We put some plants directly on the shelf from suppliers, and we have no way of knowing what they have done to the plants before they arrive at our nursery.

3)	The large plant in your photo was one that was placed directly into our indoor nursery.

4)	The pot that you purchased from us with the moss on the outside could have been the issue. Who knows how the moss was attached.

5)	The plant in your photo which has the yellow banding, may be toxic to mantis.

My thoughts

1)	If either the “moss” pot or the yellow banded plant were toxic, AND required direct contact, rather than air born, it would not seem to be reasonable that 24 of the 30 mantis made such contact within the 18 overnight hours that they were there.

2)	If the toxin was airborne, it would seem reasonable that all would have died.

3)	Therefore, the most reasonable alternative to me is that the large plant (their comment #3 above) contained toxic material. And that plant, there were two of them, was by far the largest volume in the habitat.

We hope that this information will be of help to others.


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## XANTHOMAN (Aug 21, 2011)

im no plant person and i have no idea what kind of plant that was, but maybe, its not spraying at issue, it very well could have been the plant itself.

i know for chameleons, there is a "safe plant list" of about 80 (guess) plants, known to be safe for chameleons,

and most plants not on the list should be avoided, as many will cause problems or even death, and its not always related eating of the plant either. many plants have natural defenses or are in some way coated with substances, or give off fumes , unfriendly to one type of critter or another. many pharmacuticals, (and insecticides) are made from plants.

not faulting you, im sure most of us have made avoidable mistakes. but, with thousands of plants out there, its reasonable to assume that there are many that arent bug / more specifically, mantis friendly.

also there may be plants that a mantis would have no problem with in a natural setting, but may when placed in a terrarium (because of fumes or whatever). even if it was a fumes issue, its seems unlikely that they all would have died at the exact same time, maybe your others were on there way to dying, but just hadnt been in there long enough? good thing you removed them!

i was actually sort of suprized not to see a "safe plant list" as it relates to mantid keeping. (if anyone knows of any, please send me the link). maybe that would be a worthwhile endeavor for the mantid community to work on.

also, if that was ever accomplished, it would be interesting to see how it compares to the cham "safe plant list"?

i lost 7 nearly adult orchids about 2 years back, everything was going great, an emergency matter made me unavailable to them for about 4 days, when i got back they were all dead. unexpected losses really suck, have only raised one chinese ooth since.

would like to try orchids again , or maybe idolos, but would rather start with an ooth. jmo


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## RevWillie (Aug 21, 2011)

I am in the plant nursery business (orchids). Sorry to repeat something that I posted in the other thread about this:

When you mass-culture a large group of plants, it is like a huge buffet line for plant pests, both insect and fungal.

Most consumers expect to buy 100% perfect looking plants, fruits, and vegetables.

(organic foods are expensive and sometimes blemished because it is hard to produce quantity without chemicals)

The only way to mass-produce what the public expects is to use fungicides and insecticides. Lots of them.

Many of these insecticides are on the surface only (oils, wettable powders) and others have a systemic effect to poison insects feeding on the plant itself.

I recommend that people either start their own plants from seeds or cuttings, or buy what you want from wherever BUT - grow them on for a month or more with frequent washing/rinsing of the leaves of anything not seed grown.

"Be careful out there"


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## Krissim Klaw (Aug 22, 2011)

First off, I am very sorry for your loss.

I must admit I have passed up on several occasions picking up a live plant I thought would be a perfect jungle gym for my crew, because I was worried about potential pesticides. I figure most of what is for sale is probably coated in stuff because the objective is to get the live plant to the consumer without it being infested by bugs in the process. I don't even really trust the staff in nurseries or stores because I figure they can't even say for sure what their suppliers might put on them beforehand. Such a shame really.


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## catfish (Aug 23, 2011)

Thank you for putting this thread up. I have removed my plants from the home my mantid was about to go in - though as it turned out my new mantid is so small I'm keeping him in a smaller container anyway. By the time he's big enough for the 5 gal. I figure the plants should be safe.


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## Psychobunny (Sep 4, 2011)

I am reserecting this thread.

The OP brings up an important point about adding plants to your terrarium.

Personaly, I have never used live plants, more because I am too lazy to care for them then

any worry of toxicity, and I only use silk or fabric fake plants and I wash them off before

use.

That is just a horrible thing to have happen, and I know I would be very upset.

I know a fellow who works for a large nursery near me. They do spray some of the plants to keep

them looking their best to attract buyers who will only pick the healthies looking plants.

Bottom line, dont use store bought or nursery plants.

Store checkout employees probably do not know much about how the plants are being treated, and many

plants come from other large comercial nurseries who probably do spray them before shipment to the vendor.

Just use fake plants, or ones you raised yourself


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