# Violins - When To Mate?



## MantisGirl13 (Nov 11, 2018)

I have an adult male (as of today) and a subadult female with fat wingbuds. When the female molts, how long should I wait to mate them? 

Thanks!!

- MantisGirl13


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## Kermit (Nov 12, 2018)

Recommended 3 weeks...

Keep them a separate as possible. (Separate rooms)

You will notice when she starts calling as she dips her abdomen.

Warm and lightly mist both just before pairing.

Good luck!


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 12, 2018)

Kermit said:


> Recommended 3 weeks...
> 
> Keep them a separate as possible. (Separate rooms)
> 
> ...


Ok, thanks! I will not be able to keep them separate, as I only have one heat source for them and there is no other spot in the house where I am allowed to keep them, will that be a big problem?

- MantisGirl13


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## Kermit (Nov 12, 2018)

The female puts off pheromones that the male is attracted to. often times if they're kept in the same space the male becomes ambivalent to the scent.


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## Kermit (Nov 12, 2018)

Male


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 12, 2018)

Ok, Good to know. I will see what I can do.

- MantisGirl13


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 19, 2018)

Ok, she has been adult for three days now and is already calling?!? She is wandering around her cage constantly, pumping her abdomen up and down and fluttering her wings. And my male definitely notices! I will move them into separate rooms tomorrow, but I am confused as to why she is already calling! 

- MantisGirl13


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## Kermit (Nov 19, 2018)

If the male is more than 3 weeks as an adult, warm them up, mist them, feed them, and then put them together.

She is ready.

The male can even be 2 weeks as an adult.

LMK


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## Kermit (Nov 19, 2018)

Wait... She is only 3 DAYS old...

Never mind the last post.

She could just be getting some energy out but also she could be reacting to some things that she doesn't like.

Just keep her warm and mist her and keep an eye on her for a couple days


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 20, 2018)

Yes, she is only four days old now. I will keep an eye on her, thanks! 

- MantisGirl13


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 1, 2018)

@Kermit After settling into her new cage, she stopped calling for nearly two weeks. Now she is fluttering her wings and dipping her abdomen. She is about two weeks adult. Is she mature? The male is mature by now, as he molted earlier than her.

- MantisGirl13


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## hysteresis (Dec 1, 2018)

LoVe iS iN tHe AiR


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## Kermit (Dec 1, 2018)

Yes she is ready! It's really the males that need to wait the full two to three weeks for maturity. The females don't take as long. Once she show signs of dipping her abdomen and you have a couple weeks post adult molt you should be good to go. Be sure to feed her up warm the enclosure and mist them both before adding them together in one enclosure. I usually will try to just put the male on the female.

Good luck!


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 2, 2018)

Kermit said:


> Yes she is ready! It's really the males that need to wait the full two to three weeks for maturity. The females don't take as long. Once she show signs of dipping her abdomen and you have a couple weeks post adult molt you should be good to go. Be sure to feed her up warm the enclosure and mist them both before adding them together in one enclosure. I usually will try to just put the male on the female.
> 
> Good luck!


Yay!!! Thank you! I will try first thing tomorrow then! 

- MantisGirl13


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 3, 2018)

The male just mounted, and the female is not too happy  

- MantisGirl13


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## Kermit (Dec 3, 2018)

Congratulations! Have they connected?


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 3, 2018)

Kermit said:


> Congratulations! Have they connected?


Not yet, the male just got comfortable and the female is not bothered too much by him anymore. I will post when something happens! 





- MantisGirl13


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## Kermit (Dec 3, 2018)

So close! Don't forget to warm up and mist them too. That sometimes helps to trigger copulation.


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 3, 2018)

@Kermit Ok, thanks! They have connected a few times, but short connections. I will keep then warm. Do I mist them directly?

- MantisGirl13


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## Kermit (Dec 3, 2018)

Yes a fine light mist. Or drips where they can access it.


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 4, 2018)

Kermit said:


> Yes a fine light mist. Or drips where they can access it.


Ok, thanks! The mating went very well, and they connected several times over about six hours. I will try again on Friday to make sure the female is fertile, but I am very happy with them! Now if only my budwings would cooperate.....

- MntisGirl13


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 6, 2018)

@Kermit

Alright, now I'm confused. She obviously was mated a few days ago, but she is still calling? I tried to mate them again today and the male would have none of it! He was flying away and when I did get him to mount, he got on sideways and would not turn around! 

Does this calling behavior mean the previous mating was not successful? Why is my male so crazy now when he was so docile earlier?

- MantisGirl13


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## Kermit (Dec 6, 2018)

the male needs to recuperate and rebuild his reproductive stuff LOL. I always separate them after a mating so that the female does not add him to her diet which is natural for her to ingest the nutrients she needs to produce a healthy egg sack. I always separate the male and hydrate and feed him as much as he wants. Keep him warm, but not hot. He will be ready to reintroduce in about 1 week. Separate them as far away as possible otherwise the male becomes accustomed to the pheromones that the female is producing as she pulsates in heat AKA calling! The female should also eat as much as you she can. She needs the nutrients to lay as big of an ootheca as possible.

Remember that the female will live far longer than the male so the male needs to be taken extra care of. Leaving him in with the female can cause undue stress. That is perhaps why he is flying around and resisting the mating.

The female will continue to call because she is in heat. just because she mated it does not mean she is not still in heat... if you had a different male and introduced him to her than they would again successfully copulate.

Bottom line is he is done and she is not! LOL.

She will be back in heat on and off over 2 or so months. Maybe longer.

The pressure is really off now that they have successfully connected. Now the female should be fed and kept safe. She will lay an ootheca in two to three weeks. 

The male will live only about an average of one month after turning adult. Unless he is extra strong and kept well-fed and hydrated he could live a few more weeks.

I love this species! It is sad however how long the females last and live yet they become very debilitated and they have a difficulty eating in there later part of their life. They are incredible but as they age they become very clumsy and require special netting for them to hang and suspend themself from the top of the enclosure.

Glad to hear that you have made it to this point with one of my favorites! Please keep me posted!


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 7, 2018)

@Kermit Thanks so much! I do not keep this species communally (Due to a cannibalism accident at L4) so the only time the female and the male are even in the same room is for mating purposes. I have been keeping them in separate rooms. I guess I will try to mate them again next week. 

I got confused because I have only bred ghosts before this and the male was back and ready to mate after just a few days.

I will keep feeding both of them and give the male some extra attention. 

I don't think I could have had a successful mating without your support, so thanks so much! Violins are definitely one of my favorite species too.

- MantisGirl13


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## Kermit (Dec 7, 2018)




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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 7, 2018)

The female is happy and fat in her enclosure with lots of appropriately sized twigs. The male is warm in his cage under the heat lamp. They both seem happy, and I think Valentine (the female) has stopped calling.

- MantisGirl13


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## Kermit (Dec 9, 2018)

She will mate even when she is not calling. It's the male that needs to be ready. He will be after he eats and drinks for a few days. Like I said before the pressure's off! Sounds like you successfully got the job done. Congrats


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 9, 2018)

Kermit said:


> She won't mate even when she is not calling. It's the male that needs to be ready. He will be after he eats and drinks for a few days. Like I said before the pressure's off! Sounds like you successfully got the job done. Congrats


Ok! Thanks! She is REALLY fat now, so I am hoping for an ooth soon!

- MantisGirl13


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## Aristalochia (Dec 9, 2018)

Oh very nice, congrats! I hope she gives you many ooths


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## hysteresis (Dec 9, 2018)

Amazing! Good luck, @MantisGirl13!


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 10, 2018)

Aristalochia said:


> Oh very nice, congrats! I hope she gives you many ooths


Me too! 



hysteresis said:


> Amazing! Good luck, @MantisGirl13!


Thanks!

- MantisGirl13


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## Cole 78 (Dec 10, 2018)

Congrats on the mating! Hope she delivers some healthy nymphs!


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 11, 2018)

Cole 78 said:


> Congrats on the mating! Hope she delivers some healthy nymphs!


Thanks! I hope so too!

- MantisGirl13


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 18, 2018)

@Kermit

Um, it has been over two weeks since she was mated and she still has not laid. Is this normal? 

- MantisGirl13


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## Kermit (Dec 18, 2018)

Totally normal. a lot of times they can become egg bound if they are not properly hydrated. Make sure that she has plenty of drip water available. Not just spray rather drip.

Just because she went two weeks does not mean she is egg bound but you should make sure to continue to properly hydrate her so that doesn't happen. Overfeeding and not too much water is my leading theory for why they experience egg binding.

I have to check my records but I think they lay around four to five weeks after turning adult.


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 19, 2018)

Kermit said:


> Totally normal. a lot of times they can become egg bound if they are not properly hydrated. Make sure that she has plenty of drip water available. Not just spray rather drip.
> 
> Just because she went two weeks does not mean she is egg bound but you should make sure to continue to properly hydrate her so that doesn't happen. Overfeeding and not too much water is my leading theory for why they experience egg binding.
> 
> I have to check my records but I think they lay around four to five weeks after turning adult.


Ok, thanks. I will give her more water. 

- MantisGirl13


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