# New Idolo Tank



## Precarious (Oct 29, 2010)

Since there are Ghost Mantis squatters in the twig-filled tank I originally made for the Idolos, I evicted my adult Violins to a net cage so I could remodel and move the Idolos in.

I started with a 12x12x12 Exo-Terra terrarium, which I love since they open in the front. Great if you plan of taking pics or shooting video.

The roof is covered in thin twigs for delicate Idolo feets. Just cut twigs to size, lay 2 bamboo skewers long enough to hang over the lip of the tank spaced so they'll span the roof, then hot glue the twigs in place. Very simple to do and very effective. Just make sure your screen will seat properly with the skewers underneath.

I did something very similar to the right side of the tank to give them vertical hang space. Horizontal branches glued to 2 bamboo skewers, and the skewers glued to the glass.

I have various branches, a vine and leaves lower but within reach of the roof as convenient step off points for molting Idolos. That way they won't have to climb up the old skin when they need to flip to inflate their wings. The reports indicate this is when most fall during their final molt.

Plenty of moss for humidity and a shallow dish with extra moist moss. The dish makes it easy to take it out to clean and I can dump water into the dish without it soaking the whole floor of the tank. If mold ever developed it would be in this dish which I can easily replace without disturbing the rest of the tank.

I'll probably mount the white temp/humidity gauge near the roof and keep the black one on the floor. You'd be surprised how it can vary over that short distance. I blocked off the front half of the screen to help hold humidity. Still plenty of air flow between the grill in front and the open back half of the roof.



























They seem to like it so far!


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## Precarious (Oct 29, 2010)




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## myzticalboi (Oct 29, 2010)

Great setup for the Idolos! I wish I had space to set up a nice display enclosure. But the 32oz containers will have to do for now.


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## ismart (Oct 29, 2010)

Great set-up you got going there.


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## sporeworld (Oct 29, 2010)

Beautiful.

I'm still unsure about the side "walks". What's to keep them from molting there instead of the top...?

Another thing that I DIDN'T have, that I think you got right, is LOTS of springy moss to break a fall.

I have a tenative plan to put a 24/7 security cam on my next adults to see where it's going wrong...


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## LauraMG (Oct 29, 2010)

You just had to remodel cuz I ripped off your setup &lt;_&lt; :lol: Looks great! Are all the shots still screen shots from your camcorder? They look a lot different


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## Precarious (Oct 29, 2010)

Sporeworld said:


> Beautiful.
> 
> I'm still unsure about the side "walks". What's to keep them from molting there instead of the top...?
> 
> ...


I'm confident that given the choice they will pick the right spot to molt. I'm pretty sure they want to succeed even more than I want them to. They've got more at stake and they've got instinct to point them in the right direction.  

I've been lucky enough to watch nearly all my mantis molts. I see what the different species have in common and what special needs their different shapes present.

I watched all of my Violins pick the very same spot in their enclosure for their final molt. Only one picked a different spot and she fell when she tried to climb up the old skin. All the others stepped onto a plant then flipped. It's even dangerous for smaller species as can be seen in the Ghost molt I posted yesterday. It's risky business.

Check

 to see that my male Violin stepped forward onto a plant before flipping. You'll see his old skin up top.I have unedited footage of an adult female Violin transitioning from old skin to that same leaf. I'll try to get that edited and posted before too long. I am so backlogged... :helpsmilie: 

All we can do is try to give them what they need to have a healthy molt. If they don't we've got to be willing to accept at least part of the blame since they have no choice in designing their environment. That's how I look at it, anyway.


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## Precarious (Oct 29, 2010)

Laura G said:


> You just had to remodel cuz I ripped off your setup
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: Looks great! Are all the shots still screen shots from your camcorder? They look a lot different


Well I can't just sit by and allow you to drink in ALL the glory. :angry: 

Yeah, those are frame grabs from HD video. If they look better it's just that I'm getting better at setting up lighting and adjusting them in Photoshop. You can see I put an extra light on top of the tank to help. That's why that cord is just hanging there.

I may invest in a cheap white and 18% gray card for setting white and color balance. That would help my camcorder capture more accurate color and contrast to begin with. Less work in post.


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## Seattle79 (Oct 29, 2010)

Beautiful settup


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## sporeworld (Oct 29, 2010)

Hmmm...

Well, please keep us posted. Thay are really spectacular as adults, but really bulky (especially the females). I think that flip is tough enough to pull off as a dainty little Gongy, but a real challenge for Idols with that much mass and those loooong thin legs.

_(By the way, am I supposed to put the "o" at the end...? I've just called them "Idols" - as in "American"...)_


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## Precarious (Oct 30, 2010)

Sporeworld said:


> _By the way, am I supposed to put the "o" at the end...? I've just called them "Idols" - as in "American"..._


Haha! Call them whatever you like. I just throw the "o" on so there is no doubt I'm talking about a mantis. :lol: 

I'll be sure to fill everyone in on the result of my experiments.

I could be completely wrong. If I fail, just lump me in with everyone else who's tried and failed.  

But if I'm right and I get Idolos all the way to adult and breeding on my first try, starting with only 5 nymphs, and after only dealing with mantids since May, everyone should chip in to get me a trophy or something! :blush:


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## LauraMG (Oct 30, 2010)

Precarious said:


> But if I'm right and I get Idolos all the way to adult and breeding on my first try, starting with only 5 nymphs, and after only dealing with mantids since May, everyone should chip in to get me a trophy or something! :blush:


I'll totally be the first person to go buy you a trophy Precarious! Heck, I'll even arrange a parade for you! :lol:


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## Ricardo (Oct 30, 2010)

great set up!! how old are all those guys?

Do you plan on seperating them?

Are there any mantis species that can coexist?


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## Precarious (Oct 30, 2010)

Ricardo said:


> great set up!! how old are all those guys?
> 
> Do you plan on seperating them?
> 
> Are there any mantis species that can coexist?


Two L6, two L5 and a little L4 kept separately. It's an undersized runt so I'm afraid it may get eaten. Once it molts to L5 I'll bring it in with the others.

I'm going to continue keeping them together. I haven't seen any indications of cannibalistic tendencies so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Communal species that I'm aware of are:

Gongylus gongylodes

Phyllocrania paradoxa (separate females from younger nymphs once they become sub-adult)

Gambian Spotted-Eye Flower Mantis

Heterochaeta occidentalis

Sibylla pretiosa

Phyllovates chlorophaea

There may be more but these are the communal species I keep. I prefer communal mantids because it's much easier to care for them as a group and you can set up nice terrariums rather than keeping them in deli cups. That's just my personal preference.


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## Precarious (Oct 30, 2010)

Laura G said:


> I'll totally be the first person to go buy you a trophy Precarious! Heck, I'll even arrange a parade for you! :lol:


I knew I could count on you.


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## Ricardo (Oct 30, 2010)

Precarious said:


> Two L6, two L5 and a little L4 kept separately. It's an undersized runt so I'm afraid it may get eaten. Once it molts to L5 I'll bring it in with the others.
> 
> I'm going to continue keeping them together. I haven't seen any indications of cannibalistic tendencies so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
> 
> ...


do you recommend any stores for communal mantids?

Petland seems to only carry miomantis paykullii and Rhombodera basalis .


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## Precarious (Oct 30, 2010)

Ricardo said:


> do you recommend any stores for communal mantids?
> 
> Petland seems to only carry miomantis paykullii and Rhombodera basalis .


It's not really legal for pet stores to carry mantids because ownership falls into a bit of a gray area. That's why you don't often see them for sale.

I suggest you keep an eye on the 'for sale' forum here. That's where all my mantids came from. I'll have Gambian Spotted-Eye Flower Mantis L2 nymphs for sale very soon, and likely Ghost mantis nymphs soon after. And I don't know what you paid at Petland but nymphs average about $5 each through the forum, but you also have to factor in shipping.


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## Ricardo (Oct 30, 2010)

Precarious said:


> It's not really legal for pet stores to carry mantids because ownership falls into a bit of a gray area. That's why you don't often see them for sale.
> 
> I suggest you keep an eye on the 'for sale' forum here. That's where all my mantids came from. I'll have Gambian Spotted-Eye Flower Mantis L2 nymphs for sale very soon, and likely Ghost mantis nymphs soon after. And I don't know what you paid at Petland but nymphs average about $5 each through the forum, but you also have to factor in shipping.


Here it's 13 dollars for a miomantis paykulli and 20 dollars for a Rhombodera basalis.

And why would ownership be a legal issue? The mantis is almost native to north america so it's not like they could cause eco mishaps. I'm from Canada, live in Vancouver. What communal species do you recommend? What's your favorite species over all ?

Also I don't have a paypal account. is cash purchase applicable on this forum?


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## Precarious (Oct 30, 2010)

Ricardo said:


> Here it's 13 dollars for a miomantis paykulli and 20 dollars for a Rhombodera basalis.
> 
> And why would ownership be a legal issue? The mantis is almost native to north america so it's not like they could cause eco mishaps. I'm from Canada, live in Vancouver. What communal species do you recommend? What's your favorite species over all ?
> 
> Also I don't have a paypal account. is cash purchase applicable on this forum?


From what I've been told, in the US it is technically only legal to own species native to your area.

In my experience, Gambians are the easiest to keep. I bought 2 nymphs, they both made it to adults, mated and are now laying ooths. They're spunky little things.

After them I would say Heterochaeta occidentalis. Very cool looking - long bodies and pointy eyes, but they are not easy to find.

Those two species are very easy to keep as are Phyllovates chlorophaea.

My favorites are probably the Idolos though. I think they are well worth the trouble.

Whether cash or PayPal would depend on the seller, as would shipping to Canada. I don't think I would sell outside the US.


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## angelofdeathzz (Oct 30, 2010)

Very nice setup! there looking great  

I wish you the best of luck mating them in the near future.


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## Ricardo (Oct 31, 2010)

Precarious said:


> From what I've been told, in the US it is technically only legal to own species native to your area.
> 
> In my experience, Gambians are the easiest to keep. I bought 2 nymphs, they both made it to adults, mated and are now laying ooths. They're spunky little things.
> 
> ...


I don't think I would buy from the Us. Even if the seller were from seattle ( A short drive away from my current location )

I'd need a 100 dollar permit to be able to purchase pets or organisms from other countries.


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## Colorcham427 (Oct 31, 2010)

Seattle79 said:


> Beautiful settup


I see you put the "rolling eyes" face on a lot of posts where it doesn't even make sense.. you do realize you look like an a-hole doing that, right?


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## kitkat39 (Oct 31, 2010)

Awesome looking setup! Let me know how it goes! I might have to bite your setup :lol:


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## Precarious (Oct 31, 2010)

Brian Aschenbach said:


> I see you put the "rolling eyes" face on a lot of posts where it doesn't even make sense.. you do realize you look like an a-hole doing that, right?


Wow, relax.  Maybe the eyes were rolling up to the pictures...

Seattle79 is one of the good guys. He didn't even mention 'God'. :lol:


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## Precarious (Oct 31, 2010)

UPDATE:

I noticed they like hanging at the front left corner, especially when the heat light is on, so I added vertical branches and a bridge between the left and right side of the tank. I was afraid it would be too much but they still have plenty of space for molts.


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## angelofdeathzz (Oct 31, 2010)

man, your going to make me break down an buy one or two of those cage's!!! they just look so user freindly and cool at the same time.  

and please don't get Brian started on the God thing, but with him. what's the %#&amp;*  for??? - I guess he would do better?


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## Precarious (Oct 31, 2010)

angelofdeathzz said:


> man, your going to make me break down an buy one or two of those cage's!!! they just look so user freindly and cool at the same time.


You really should pick one up. They're so useful and versatile. Well worth the $50. They are ideal for communal mantids.

I have three Exo-Terra 12x12x12. One is dedicated to my whipscorpion. I have 4 sub-adult Heterochaeta occidentalis in another. And I raised my Violins in this one.

Then I have the Zoo Med 18x12x12 I'm keeping the Ghosts in. That one has a single door and I've gotta say I prefer the double doors on the other tanks. Much easier to use without letting flies loose.

I know some people are down on the idea of using glass enclosures but I love them. The only way to really control humidity and much better viewing than net cages. It's simple enough to add twigs and plants to create whatever kind of environment you want for your species. You can even add a cork bark backdrop if you feel the need to have walls they can cling to, but a rack of twigs works really well and looks even cooler.

There is even room on the floor to hatch fly larvae right in the tank if you want! Put in a portion cup with the larvae and a lid of food. I've done that and it is convenient as h3ll.


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## guapoalto049 (Nov 10, 2010)

Nicely done!


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## sporeworld (Nov 20, 2010)

Hey, Precarious!

Can we get a photo update...? I'm very curious....


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## The Gex Files (Nov 25, 2010)

Do you only keep females together or do you also have males in the group?

I ask because i just finished setting up a viv for ours and want to put them in it.

We have 1.1 L4 and an unsexed L4, can i put them together?


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## Precarious (Nov 25, 2010)

The Gex Files said:


> DO you only keep females together or do you also have males in the group?
> 
> I ask because i just finished setting up a viv for ours and want to put them in it.
> 
> We have 1.1 L4 and an unsexed L4, can i put them together?


I haven't sexed mine yet, but I've kept them together the whole time with no incident. I keep one separate because it's behind the others and very small. It's a runt (or a male?).

I now have two L7s, which is only sub-adult for Idolos, two L6s, and the runty L5.

By the way, what's the "1.1" for in your description? I'm wondering if there may be an Idolo Operating System update that I missed.


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## The Gex Files (Nov 25, 2010)

Thanks! We will put them together this evening.

We keep reptiles, but didn't realize that 1.1 is not used when keeping insects.

this is to tell the gender of the animals.

For example male.female.unsexed.

So 1.1 is 1 male and 1 female.


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## Precarious (Nov 25, 2010)

The Gex Files said:


> Thanks! We will put them together this evening.
> 
> We keep reptiles, but didn't realize that 1.1 is not used when keeping insects.
> 
> ...


Ah, interesting. I learned something new. Thank you.

I wish you the best of luck with the Idolos.


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## sporeworld (Nov 25, 2010)

From everything I've read and experienced myself, Idolos seem to be the MOST communal. Personally, I didn't have ANY agression - just a lot of threat displays in the early instars as everyone got situated. After that, they'd crawl all over each other with only minor annoyance. I also had adult Ghosts, Gongy's, Boxers and even an adult orchid crawling around with them at one point or another (all smaller). No issues. In fact, once they were L5 or so, no more threat displays unless I accidentally freaked them out by banging the drawer or something.

I will say, that if you have low numbers, maybe it's not worth ANY risk, and you should just keep them seperated.

Be warned, the females DO have an extra molt, and the males don't seem to live very long. So some strategy for delay seems to be in order.


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## Precarious (Nov 25, 2010)

Sporeworld said:


> I also had adult Ghosts, Gongy's, Boxers and even an adult orchid crawling around with them at one point or another (all smaller). No issues.


Now that is just straight up bad @ss! B)


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## sporeworld (Nov 25, 2010)

Ha, ha! I had something else in there too, but I can't remember what it was. I know I had some psuedocreos. I remember NOT putting in adult MALE ghosts, becuase if they started flying, I think they would have gotten munched.


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## bravado (Nov 29, 2010)

Precarious,

I'm interested to know what kind of light source you are using, and the sorts of temperatures you have throughout a tank like this. It sounds like you've had a good amount of success with them, would you say they have good circulation?


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## naeff002 (Nov 29, 2010)

they look great and a real nice tank you got for them


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## Precarious (Nov 29, 2010)

Bravado said:


> Precarious,
> 
> I'm interested to know what kind of light source you are using, and the sorts of temperatures you have throughout a tank like this. It sounds like you've had a good amount of success with them, would you say they have good circulation?


Only one bad molt so far, but no deaths. I caught a female molting to L7 (sub-adult for females) on video. It was a perfect molt. She made use of the vines to the right side of the tank. I'll edit and post that later today.

I'm just using a normal florescent light. I have a 100 watt bulb I turn on about 6 hours each day for extra heat.

Average temp is mid to high 70's, 100 watt bulb takes that into the 80's, up to about 88. At night it goes down to 70, sometimes as low at 68.

The tank has an air vent in the front below the doors, and of course the roof is screen. I blocked off the front portion of the screen with plastic to help hold humidity, but there is plenty of flow between the lower and upper rear venting.

I keep humidity 60% and above. When the light is on it goes much lower. But I always make sure they have enough humidity at night and in the morning.


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