# What do you use for substrate?



## Rick

Trying to get ideas here. Currentely I am using moistened sphagnum moss about a 1/2 deep in the bottom. Misting every day due to low humidity in the house this time of year. I mist the glass every day but every other day I rewet the moss. It is working great because I have no mismolts or anything. However when the mantis drops bits of food the food wil mold due to spores in the moss probably. I am looking to get ideas for substrate. So post up what you use. Thanks!


----------



## Jesse

I don't use any substrate, because they smell it up too fast. However I have started using coconut fiber as a substrate for the D. desiccata, so that humidity will stay high(especially while I'm on vacation and can't mist).


----------



## Rick

Well the moss works well but dropped food will mold. I am experimenting with wet sponges. The kind that won't mold. So far it is looking promising.


----------



## Andrew

Id be careful with sponges though, they breed bacteria like mad. But then again the mantid probably wont drink water from the sponge...


----------



## Rick

Can't be no worse than this moss. These sponges are anitbacterial.


----------



## Orin

I only use substrate in L1-3 communal rearing cages. Coconut fiber, it's easy to tell when it dries out since it changes color greatly. The biggest problem with trying to increase humidity is mantids become accustomed to high humidity (a lot like plants) and loose internal fluids rapidly if you let the substrate become dry at any time. Increased humidity can set your mantids up for a serious fall. The coconut fiber is helpful because it shows you when it is dry.

Dampness + mantis feces = mold As long as your ventilation is adequate mold is insignificant.


----------



## Jesse

Are you sure the antibacterial agent is safe for the mantis? I suppose it doesn't matter if you are just using it for humidity and not a source of drinking water.


----------



## Rick

> I only use substrate in L1-3 communal rearing cages. Coconut fiber, it's easy to tell when it dries out since it changes color greatly. The biggest problem with trying to increase humidity is mantids become accustomed to high humidity (a lot like plants) and loose internal fluids rapidly if you let the substrate become dry at any time. Increased humidity can set your mantids up for a serious fall. The coconut fiber is helpful because it shows you when it is dry. Dampness + mantis feces = mold As long as your ventilation is adequate mold is insignificant.


What is your ambient humidity since you don't use any substrate except for the little ones? Do you just mist the tank? I currentely use the cocounut fiber for my box turtle and I think it is too messy for a mantis cage. If no substrate works fine than I am willing to give it a try since it would make cleaning the cages much easier. Thanks again.


----------



## Orin

My bugroom humidity is seasonal, 70-80 spring and fall, 40-50 in summer and 10 in midwinter.


----------



## Rick

> My bugroom humidity is seasonal, 70-80 spring and fall, 40-50 in summer and 10 in midwinter.


So you must mist a lot to keep the humidity up during the winter? The tests I did with the sponges is keeping it right where I want it.


----------



## myopicvisions

If I use a substrate, I usualy make a naturalistic vivarium. If it's to be planted, I put at least an inch of pea gravel in the bottom to act as a resevoir for water, and promote drainage. Then, I put a mix of potting soil (without pearlite), often mixing in a little orchid bark to change the texture. Then, I cover about a third with carpet moss. I have used this method for frogs a lot, and it keeps the humidity high, while giving adequate drainage.

Mold means you have a high humidity with very poor airflow. Mold is oportunistic, and wont appear if you do two things:

1) let the water evaporate, just replenish the level in the gravel by watering the tank (some old timers used cheesecloth between layers, but I find it limits root penetration)

2) Air it out - if you have a perfecto lid, break out the rear parts where they are scored, and replace with screen. Or, better yet, use a screen lid and partialy cover a portion of it to reduce airflow - only if needed!

Watering your plants from above helps break down the waste, while the soil holds the bacteria needed to break it down.

That's how I do it.

[SIZE=8pt]_*Paper products - and some plants - contain compounds that mimic the juvenile hormone, part of the biochemical pathway to the molting process, and have - in some insects - been shown to delay development. It's called the "Scott Towell" effect. I swear that I am not making this up...*_[/SIZE]

http://www.agsci.ubc.ca/courses/agro/327/A....lecture.05.pdf


----------



## Rick

Thanks for the replies. I am going to go ahead with these sponges as it looks like they are going to work well now. I could probably get away with nothing with the africans since my ambient humidity is above 50% but I put half a sponge in there with them.


----------



## chun

vermiculite can be quite potent if the mantid does happen to consume some. I have been told by a couple of people how they unfortunately lost their wahlbergii because they managed to consume a piece of vermiculite whilst consuming a cricket (which happened to have a piece of vermiculite stuck to it). That's the only disadvantage i can think of for using vermiculite.

Sponge when dirty is a haven for bacteria. When your mantid egests onto the sponge, which would be constantly damp further encouraging the growth of moulds and bacteria. Arachnid hobbyists are strongly against the use of sponge to keep humidity up.

Hope this helps

Chun


----------



## Rick

So does anyone think it is recommended to just use nothing and mist everyday?


----------



## chun

If you use nothing you'll end up with a pool of water when misting. When this mixes with faeces and uneaten food items, it's pretty disgusting (and could be dangerous for the mantid). Tissues are quite good, as they are cheap and can be easily replaced on a regular basis. They also hold water quite well.


----------



## Jesse

There are at least two kinds of vermiculite sold, one of them is/was used as an insulation, and may contain asbestos and other harmful compounds, while another is used for plants and is much different from that used as insulation (but same origin, volcanic rock of some sort). The one used for plants should not be toxic, and I've used it for a long time without any visible problems.


----------



## chun

Well i never did say not to use vermiculite, i was just raising one possible disadvantage of using vermiculite. When you say your mantid drank from it, that is different from eating it. It's abit like drinking from a straw and eating it, quite a difference. I'm not doubting your experience with wahlbergii, as i've been keeping them for many years too, but death via consumption of vermiculite has been experienced by a very experienced breeder. It's quite a coincidence if you have been keeping several generations of wahlbergii with great success and losing a wahlbergii as soon as it consumed a piece of vermiculite. Again there is no proof or evidence to suggest this is so, but it's quite a BIG coincidence!! Also if i remember rightly i've been told by a biologist that vermiculite can be poisonous when consumed (it's something to do with their chemistry). But like you said, it could be different variety of vermiculite.

Again, congratulation on your success with this specie, but i didn't say do not use vermiculite ( iknow alot of people have had great success with vermiculite). But i just want people to be aware of that one case. I've had many success with tissues, but if a mantid decided to eat tissue then it might end up dying.

I hope i don't sound like i want an argument, but i was only trying to state the disadvantage of using vermiculite. But i want to make it clear that i did not say anywhere in my original post to avoid vermiculite at all cost.

Best regards

Chun


----------



## myopicvisions

I think it depends on how much work you want to do. I have kept mine in empty jars, critter keepers, and fully planted, naturalistic vivaria - the only difference was in asthetics, and the amount of work that I had to do in order to maintain it.

Insects require less maintinence in barren cages, but don't look as nice. I haven't noticed any difference in longevity or health when using a jar as opposed to a naturalistic tank.

Just remember! You must give them somewher to perch, air, food, and it would be good if you gave them some-where to hide (very visual, keep them out of a high traffic area). That's my advice - for what it's worth.


----------



## DeShawn

I do not use anything for any species. Just cups with mesh lid. For species that supposedly require higher humidy, I mist more often (once, maybe twice a day). I do not mist enough to where any water collects at the bottom. Feces and uneaten food items are dumped out every other day (feeding time). The humidity in my bug room stays about 50%.

Here are a few pics of my old setup.


----------

