# Can anyone confirm this mantis as S. Californica?



## cloud jaguar (Dec 11, 2008)

I am 99% sure this is a S. Californica but have not seen any pics of them with this color scheme and heard this one may have an odd color scheme for S. Californica. Here are a couple of pics of the mantis - if you know S. Californica, please confirm that this is or is not one. It was found on Mexican Sage in Pasadena, So Cal. Also, it has dark brown inner wings. Thanks.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff60/12...ikan/IMG015.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff60/12...ikan/IMG011.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff60/12...ikan/IMG008.jpg

Thanks!

~Arkanis


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## PhilinYuma (Dec 11, 2008)

Arkanis said:


> I am 99% sure this is a S. Californica but have not seen any pics of them with this color scheme and heard this one may have an odd color scheme for S. Californica. Here are a couple of pics of the mantis - if you know S. Californica, please confirm that this is or is not one. It was found on Mexican Sage in Pasadena, So Cal. Also, it has dark brown inner wings. Thanks.~Arkanis


Without a doubt, Arkanis! Here it is: http://livemantis.com/carolinamantis.html

I think that it is a recessive variety and apparently partially environmentally mediated, but our climates are fairly similar, so I would be very interested in any offspring or other extra adults that you might find.

Thanks for the pix.


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## Katnapper (Dec 11, 2008)

PhilinYuma said:


> Without a doubt, Arkanis! Here it is: http://livemantis.com/carolinamantis.html


Aren't those S. carolina not S. californica?


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## Rick (Dec 11, 2008)

Looks exactly like S. Carolina that is found here. They come in a few different colors.


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## hibiscusmile (Dec 11, 2008)

Yea thats what I was thinking, it did not look like the calif I've seen, but what do I know? Ok, enough  I heard that!


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## cloud jaguar (Dec 12, 2008)

All of the stagmomantids look pretty similar from what I have seen on UA's tree of life website pictures section. However, i think it is very doubtful that there would be some S. Carolinas over here in so cal unless on vacation. So, i was thinking that it was either S. Californica, or S. Gracileps, or S. Nahua, actually. But who knows - perhaps she is an immigrant. Anywho, what color wings do S. Carolinas have? bluish i think, is that right? These are definitely blackish brown - no red or orange i think.

I would love to have a pic of her wings - once i scared her with a superworm and she kept the tegmina and inner wings up for quite some time thereafter. Not ever since though - too bad.

So, what is she?


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## Katnapper (Dec 12, 2008)

I Googled for where S. carolina is found, and came up with a few sites that do list California.



> This bug has been reportedly found in the following regions:Tolleson, Arizona
> 
> Deer, Arkansas
> 
> ...


 http://books.google.com/books?id=qyr5NHDaW...result#PPA56,M1

(bottom of page 55, top of page 56)

Here are some pics of my S. carolina girls to compare...

(note: the red and green in the wings aren't readily apparent with the naked eye. They do look a dull brownish grey just looking at them. It wasn't until I took close-up photos that I saw the colors and detail in the wings.)

















So maybe it is a S. carolina? I've never seen a S. californica though.


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## cloud jaguar (Dec 12, 2008)

Nice pics Katnapper. Thanks. Those seem to have very plump abdomens like limbatas, whereas the one I have seems very thin bodied. Your seem to have speckles whereas this one seems to have rayed lines. They do look remarkably similar though. I wonder if the ooths look different. The ooth of this one is much more papery and light than S. Limbata ooth. What are the ooths like of those - like Limbata? What color are the wings of yours?


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## Katnapper (Dec 12, 2008)

Thanks, Arkanis! Yes, I don't see the spotting like is evident on mine, on yours. But the green S. carolinas I've had didn't have spotting either, and they were definitely S. carolinas.

Pic of green S. carolina






Here are their ooths. The first one on the left is one I found in the wild locally... and I just noticed after I looked at the pic, that I think it's got wasp holes in it. :angry: All of the others were laid by my girls in captivity after I'd mated them with my males. (I went ahead and put some referencing on the pic for future... well, reference! :lol: )

I don't think I've ever seen the insides of their wings. They never did any threat displays for me, and I didn't think to spread their wings and look or take pics when any of them died. I've only got one S. carolina gal left, and I'm always expecting to find her dead of old age lately, as the others have all died... most of them over a month ago. But she keeps hanging in there! When she does go, I'll have to try to remember to look at her wings. I'll take pics too if I remember.  

S. carolina oothecae






Edit: Forgot to add.... The ooths aren't as spongy as T. sinensis oothecae, but they are very lightweight and kind of papery.


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## Katnapper (Dec 12, 2008)

Was searching for something else and happened to come across these 2 threads that might be useful to you...

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?sh...ic=7892&amp;hl=

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?sh...ic=8157&amp;hl=

PS... After I really looked at my green S. carolina pic, she does have a spotty pattern in that brown part of her thorax.


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## Hypoponera (Dec 12, 2008)

My guess is that you have _S. californica_. The dark hind wings seperate it from _S. limbata_. I have seen both _S. limbata _and _S. californica _that are colored exactly like yours.

Let me know when she dies. Send her to me and I will check the ID.

Is it possibly _S. carolina_? Well...yes. It is possible that some travelled to sunny CA. But the chances are higher that you picked up a native rather then a potentially very rare import. Be careful of sites like have been posted above. "this bug has been REPORTEDLY..." I have not been able to find any solid reports of this species WEST of TX. I have never found it in Albuquerque, NM, which is where I am right now. It is quite possible that the species was introduced and went extinct in a very short time period.


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## PhilinYuma (Dec 12, 2008)

I still stand by my first guess (of course!) Arkanis,

but if you have an ooth(s) you can determine the strain's species for sure. While you are raising the young to adulthood, you can raise some S.californica and acquire some S. carolina.

Breed adult females of your S. sp with males of these two species. Only one set of ooths should be fertile, and they will come from a female mated with the male of her own species. To avoid quibbles about a hybrid race, just cross out adults from the F2 generation with F2 adults of the two known species. If they are hybrids, they will not yield fertile ooths (that's the rule of thumb, anyway) if they are not, they will produce fertile ooths with their own species.

Sounds like a nice project!


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## Katnapper (Dec 12, 2008)

Hypoponera said:


> Be careful of sites like have been posted above. "this bug has been REPORTEDLY..." I have not been able to find any solid reports of this species WEST of TX. I have never found it in Albuquerque, NM, which is where I am right now. It is quite possible that the species was introduced and went extinct in a very short time period.


Thanks for the "reality" check, Hypoponera! I sometimes forget that things like this on the web aren't always substatiated by solid truth of identification.


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## cloud jaguar (Jan 6, 2009)

Well, after she died i put her in resin (our second one) and she came out great! And the best thing is that i was able to spread her tegmina and wings inside of the resin - let me tell you that was a real pain because the wings kept closing on their own for about 45 minutes and i kept having to spread them open with a bamboo skewer over and over and over and over and over again until the resin finally became tacky enough to keep them in place

To confirm, it definitely IS A CALIFORNICA! since it has brown wings. However, i do believe the ootheca from her may be sterile since ours hasen't hatched and was laid Oct 30. The wings got a bit torn up from the skewer but color is still visible. Will take a pic of the resin mantid with open wings to post soon.


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## Katnapper (Jan 6, 2009)

Arkanis said:


> Well, after she died i put her in resin (our second one) and she came out great! And the best thing is that i was able to spread her tegmina and wings inside of the resin - let me tell you that was a real pain because the wings kept closing on their own for about 45 minutes and i kept having to spread them open with a bamboo skewer over and over and over and over and over again until the resin finally became tacky enough to keep them in placeTo confirm, it definitely IS A CALIFORNICA! since it has brown wings. However, i do believe the ootheca from her may be sterile since ours hasen't hatched and was laid Oct 30. The wings got a bit torn up from the skewer but color is still visible. Will take a pic of the resin mantid with open wings to post soon.


Sounds like you had a time with her and the resin. But I'm sure it was worth it... looking forward to seeing the pic/s.


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