# Orhid mantis dying!



## RyoKenzaki (Mar 9, 2010)

I got this orchid mantis around 15hours ago from a friend of mine

She is very active and took a mealworm from me when i got home but this morning i woke up only to find her lying on the tissue paper substrate, lifeless  

The way i kept her was in a tall deli container, damp tissue paper as substate with a fake orchid in it and *no ventilation holes at all*

(I forgot about it!)

Being a invert keeper for 4years+ i always treat all my pets as if they can survive without ventilation for quite sometimes but this is my 1st time owning a mantis

My question is, how long can they survive with no ventilation holes with a damp tissue paper below it???


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## JoeCapricorn (Mar 9, 2010)

Put holes in it immediately! That is my first suggestion. Secondly keep the orchid mantis out in the open for a bit, she could recover but I'm not entirely sure if the ventilation is even the cause.


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## RyoKenzaki (Mar 9, 2010)

I did make cross ventilation and took out the tissue paper this morning and left for my work

I made 5holes at the bottom and another 5 on top at the opposite side

I really hope she can recover, it cost me a lot!


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## PhilinYuma (Mar 9, 2010)

Really sorry to hear that you got off to such a sad start. Mantids are shipped in boxes that are completely sealed and some are in the mail for five days or more, without ill effects, so I don't think that your mantis died from suffocation, though ventilation is a must in the long run. Many of us have experienced the phenomenon of a mantis arriving in the mail looking perfectly fine and then dying the next day. Rick will correct me if I am wrong, but I think that he received a healthy looking bark mantis in the mail that died the next day and it had no problem with ventilation.

Dead mantids usually stay dead I am afraid. Orchids are certainly not in the "easy to raise" category and I suggest, after the fact, that you try a couple of hardier, less expensive mantids, like ghosts or budwings on your next try. Because of unexpected, unexplained deaths, I try to buy as many specimens of any species that interests me as I can afford. This saves me from a lot of disappointments.


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## Rick (Mar 10, 2010)

Phil nailed it. I've seen that before. She shouldn't have died that quick from no ventilation. Some say they need excellent ventilation, but I have kept them successfully in regular 32 oz cups with the cloth lids. Sometimes these things just happen with mantids. Sorry you spent a lot. I hate when such things happen but you have to realize it does.


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## hibiscusmile (Mar 10, 2010)

The others are probably right, but I will say this:

A lot of people put the mantis in a container that has no air, this for a short time, as in a day , should not hurt them, the problem comes from the following..... A sealed container with a lot of moisture, combined with heat, will make a container too moist or how u say, a steam room so to speak, a mantis not used to a steam room even for a short time, will do as yours did, and most usually will not recover. It may not seem to moist to us, but to them it is a death sentence




... Ask me how I learned this


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## sufistic (Mar 10, 2010)

hibiscusmile said:


> The others are probably right, but I will say this:
> 
> A lot of people put the mantis in a container that has no air, this for a short time, as in a day , should not hurt them, the problem comes from the following..... A sealed container with a lot of moisture, combined with heat, will make a container too moist or how u say, a steam room so to speak, a mantis not used to a steam room even for a short time, will do as yours did, and most usually will not recover. It may not seem to moist to us, but to them it is a death sentence
> 
> ...


+1. Ryo lives in Malaysia where it's already humid enough. When there's no ventilation, other than being a 'steam room', the excess moisture will cause Orchids to get sick especially when it's stagnant and mixed with faeces and food remains.


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## davestreasurechest (Mar 10, 2010)

I wonder if it was the meal worm? i have seen many post saying only feed them flys and such and crickets rarely with caution,..has anyone else here fed orchids mealworms?


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## sufistic (Mar 10, 2010)

buginthebox said:


> I wonder if it was the meal worm? i have seen many post saying only feed them flys and such and crickets rarely with caution,..has anyone else here fed orchids mealworms?


Many times and my Orchids turn out fine. I don't think mealworms has anything to do with this. We had an extensive discussion about this issue on my forum. It might be a different story when keeping Orchids in the West. But in S.E. Asia where the ambient humidity is already high, there's no need to do anything extra to increase humidity. If one feels there's a need to do extra for humidity in S.E. Asia, then proper ventilation is a must.


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## Katnapper (Mar 10, 2010)

hibiscusmile said:


> The others are probably right, but I will say this:
> 
> A lot of people put the mantis in a container that has no air, this for a short time, as in a day , should not hurt them, the problem comes from the following..... A sealed container with a lot of moisture, combined with heat, will make a container too moist or how u say, a steam room so to speak, a mantis not used to a steam room even for a short time, will do as yours did, and most usually will not recover. It may not seem to moist to us, but to them it is a death sentence
> 
> ...





sufistic said:


> +1. Ryo lives in Malaysia where it's already humid enough. When there's no ventilation, other than being a 'steam room', the excess moisture will cause Orchids to get sick especially when it's stagnant and mixed with faeces and food remains.


If your deli cup did not have the cloth ventilated type of lid, I suspect lack of ventilation is the problem. Combine the shipping time with little or no ventilation (supposed to be temporary), and then continuing with the moist airless conditions... and I don't think it's a good scenario. If she's still alive, I'd put her out in the open immediately to get the most ventilation possible to hopefully heal. In the meantime, fix an appropriately ventilated enclosure for her. Good luck!!


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## hibiscusmile (Mar 10, 2010)

I feed mealworms too and moth worms and blab , blab.... so what Kat is saying is "mouth to mouth" may be necessary... bad Kat! sorry, just trying to lighten us up a little, we know this is distressing to you.


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## Katnapper (Mar 11, 2010)

hibiscusmile said:


> I feed mealworms too and moth worms and blab , blab.... so what Kat is saying is "mouth to mouth" may be necessary... bad Kat! sorry, just trying to lighten us up a little, we know this is distressing to you.


I do most everything I can think of to keep an apparently sick or mismolted mantis alive; but mouth to mandibles isn't included in the deal. Sorry poor mantis... but no way! You can try it if you like though!


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## RyoKenzaki (Mar 11, 2010)

hibiscusmile said:


> The others are probably right, but I will say this:
> 
> A lot of people put the mantis in a container that has no air, this for a short time, as in a day , should not hurt them, the problem comes from the following..... A sealed container with a lot of moisture, combined with heat, will make a container too moist or how u say, a steam room so to speak, a mantis not used to a steam room even for a short time, will do as yours did, and most usually will not recover. It may not seem to moist to us, but to them it is a death sentence
> 
> ...


No extra heat are present in his container hmm, my laptop is a feet away and the ventilation is facing the opposite side

But the 1st thing i suspect is due to too much humidity+no ventilation that caused it to be dead

However i did not see any water condensation in the container hmm



sufistic said:


> +1. Ryo lives in Malaysia where it's already humid enough. When there's no ventilation, other than being a 'steam room', the excess moisture will cause Orchids to get sick especially when it's stagnant and mixed with faeces and food remains.


Hi, nice to see u here  

Well i do agreed with u...

Anw as i mentioned, i got her less than 12hours so therefore her enclosure are clean with no leftover or poo in it



buginthebox said:


> I wonder if it was the meal worm? i have seen many post saying only feed them flys and such and crickets rarely with caution,..has anyone else here fed orchids mealworms?


As sufistic mentioned, we have no problem feeding mealworm here

The previous owner used to handfeed her with mealworm  

Anw, i got her in a small and slightly taller deli cup along with 3 medium size scorpion, one big size scorpion and a dead leaf mantis adult, each in their container that is slightly bigger than their size all thrown in a plastic bag and i carried it in LRT and bus for around 1hour 30min journey before i reach home

(Off topic but the 3 scorp that i bought was dead too because of poor packaging so that make me really sad yesterday morning  )


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## sufistic (Mar 11, 2010)

Really sorry for your losses.


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## hibiscusmile (Mar 11, 2010)

hummm. You aren't having much luck with bugs, are you!


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## RyoKenzaki (Mar 11, 2010)

Well... It's partly my fault...

I will be getting some asian giant mantis soon, hopefully i will have better luck this time...

I still have a Dead leaf and a Leptomantella sp thou


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## Quake (Jun 19, 2010)

I think your mistake (if human error) may have been the plant. Mantids don't eat many things, but I had a few with a sweet tooth for wax and plastic materials.


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