# Wide Arm Mantis breeding troubles



## Rick

I normally don't have any problems breeding any mantids but these are giving me some problems. The males mount easily but the female will not allow them to connect. She isn't aggressive but does flick them with her back legs. She laid her first ooth today but of course its infertile. Just wondering if anyone has had similiar issues with these? Not looking for mating advice since I know how to breed mantids.


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## wuwu

the caresheet that was forwarded to yen from the gal he got them from only mentioned that the females were really aggressive and ate like 4 of her males before one male finally succeeded.


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## wuwu

i found the email, actually she mentioned more. here's the section on breeding them:

_The only problem was mating._

Luckily I had quite a few adults so I got a few Ootheca's out of them but if I had only had 1 pair then no doubt I would have failed.

The females were really aggressive towards the males. The old trick of feeding the female up and then as she's getting stuck into a tasty cricket or whatever to introduce the male behind her, didn't work with humeralis. Either she would throw away whatever she had in her arms then turn and face the male, he'd usually back off slowly and then leg it or throw himself up into the air and fly away or she would keep hold of her food but still face the male and frighten him away. There was only a couple of times when the female didn't frighten the male away yet it still seemed as if something was holding the male back. Nothing happened!!

In the end I tried the mendica technique and it worked!!!

I put a heat lamp in a 60 liter terrarium that got the interior (focused at a spot in the middle) up to 50 degrees. The edges where around the 37-42 degrees.

After adding a little furniture I introduced the female at one end and the male at the other. Both had been well fed prior to going into the terrarium.

The female had got herself positioned under a branch quite close to the light and the male was on the floor of the terrarium just outside of the hot area. Then for the next many hours nothing happened.

Eventually the male became quite active and was giving the female a lot of antennae action.

Surprisingly the female wasn't doing her usual body builder display, in fact she was looking all together peaceful. Within 10 minutes of the male coming to life he'd jumped/flown onto the females back and pressed himself close to the female (making it harder for her to grab him!).

The next many hours were quite boring with nothing much happening. I got tired and went to bed. When I got up the next morning I rushed in to see what had happened.

The male was still on the females back and they were attached!!

So it seemed as if they needed a hot period to initiate mating. As for the Ootheca's they are green when first laid but darkened up a bit as they hardened.


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## yen_saw

That was Birgitte from Denmark. She has a website at http://www.mantopia.dk/index.htm for those who understand Scandanavian. She was being helpful to translate her caresheet for Cilnia Humeralis into english.


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## Rick

Aggression is not the issue. She is not aggressive at all. She just won't open the end of her abdomen to allow mating.


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## wuwu

were you able to mate them rick?


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## Rob Byatt

Rick, how long has the female been mature ? Also, _C. humeralis_ females will not be interested in mating if they are not REALLY fat.

Rob.


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## Rick

I was able to get them to mate one time. I've tried to mate them again with no luck. This time it seems the male is the problem. He just rides around on her back without doing anything. :roll:


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## Rob Byatt

> She just won't open the end of her abdomen to allow mating.


From the above, it means that she is not ready to mate. That was why I said she needs to be really fat.

How long has she been mature Rick ?

Cheers, Rob.


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## Rick

> She just won't open the end of her abdomen to allow mating.
> 
> 
> 
> From the above, it means that she is not ready to mate. That was why I said she needs to be really fat.
> 
> How long has she been mature Rick ?
> 
> Cheers, Rob.
Click to expand...

Like I said in the above post I was able to get a good mating once.


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## Rob Byatt

Oh, just that the original post said that you couldn't get them to mate.

Just for my personal interest, seen as though you have no problem mating them, how long has the female been mature ? :wink:

The only reason I am posting on this is 'coz I've bred this species for 2 generations and I may be able to offer help.

Rob.


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## wuwu

i'm going to attempt to breed mine in a week or two. please give me some tips!


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## Rick

The female has been adult for awhile. She has already laid three ooths. Thanks.


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## Mantidae

> Aggression is not the issue. She is not aggressive at all. She just won't open the end of her abdomen to allow mating.


Had the same problem this past yr. One particular Chinese female simply refused to mate. On occassion she was aggressive toward the males. (Had that problem a couple of yrs ago and it took numerous tries by 6 different males before that female "allowed" one to mate her.)

But when this particular Chinese female allowed them to mount, nothing happened. The male stayed on her back and tried to mate but she wouldn't open up. It took about 2 weeks and 5 different males but finally she allowed one to mate with her.

Sounds like this may be normal in nature and if you're using garden variety mantids (Chinese, Carolina, etc...) call it quits and let her go back into the wild unless you are patient and want to continue trying.


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## Rick

> Aggression is not the issue. She is not aggressive at all. She just won't open the end of her abdomen to allow mating.
> 
> 
> 
> Had the same problem this past yr. One particular Chinese female simply refused to mate. On occassion she was aggressive toward the males. (Had that problem a couple of yrs ago and it took numerous tries by 6 different males before that female "allowed" one to mate her.)
> 
> But when this particular Chinese female allowed them to mount, nothing happened. The male stayed on her back and tried to mate but she wouldn't open up. It took about 2 weeks and 5 different males but finally she allowed one to mate with her.
> 
> Sounds like this may be normal in nature and if you're using garden variety mantids (Chinese, Carolina, etc...) call it quits and let her go back into the wild unless you are patient and want to continue trying.
Click to expand...

Don't think it's normal since I have never had any mantis species that was difficult to mate. It's always been easy for me until I tried with these.


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## Isis

My paradoxa males were pain in the ***, only 1 out of four was able to mate. Other had many adventures:

-one were doing nothing, had no interest even though sitting in the same terrarium as female. He died without doing a thing.

-the second one was VERY interested in females... he ate one. Then he was eaten himself.

-the third was sitting on female's back for a month or so not doing anything and he just died one day.

These things happen...


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## padkison

My first try with C. hemeralis mating was unsuccesful. Male has been mature since before Xmas. Female 1 mature for 3+ weeks and female 2 for 2+ weeks. Both females fat and fed just prior to mating.

Male jumped on and tried severale times to connect but neither female would accomodate him.

I'll try again next week.

Added a picture


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## Rick

Seems to be the trend with these Perry. I am about to give a go with mine right now. She is getting close to laying ooth number four so it's about time to mate her again.


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