# Long intro, then mating questions.



## LGMS (Aug 30, 2005)

Hello, some quick backgnd info since it's my 1st post. In April I noticed several 1/2" mantids crawling on the vinyl siding of my garage. The siding is beige the mantids were green - obvious to even a blind man &lt;grin&gt;.

I took a few pics and let them crawl onto my hand and then left them alone to do their thing. Over the next few weeks I continued to see mantids everyday (on the vinyl siding no less).

After those weeks they seemed to have dissappeared. Late June and vacation time is here. As I work on the garage I find I have company! Several 2" or so mantids are hanging around and more than once they somehow crawl unto me to say hello  Sooooo, after a lot of research I invite 3 of them to join the family. (Shortly after this I find an egg case attached to a hedge right where I first spotted the mantids.)

Hundreds of fly's caught (and eaten!) later the mantids had moulted 3-4 times and eventually got their full wings. Looks like 7-9 segments on all mantids. I assume that despite the contradicting Web sites; some say that 8 segments are males, some say 6 segments; that I have males. Any comments? Where does one start counting segments? At the last set of legs or the 1st seg after the legs? Do you count the tail end as a segment?

It's late August and I decide to catch some of the huge grasshoppers in my neighbor's well overgrown back yard (tall grasses and plants in a 15'x15' area approx). I immediately spot more of the brood from that egg case, perhaps 7 mantids. Caught 2 today.

This time one I caught looks like it has 6 segments, hard to tell. My tame and spoiled friends are easy to pickup and count segments plus the seg's are easier to see it seems. I picked up one new guy and it started to BITE me, seriously digging in with its' mouth, less then friendly! Any advice on handling them, do they get less jittery once caged for a while?

I did see one that looked a bit "fatter" in the abdomen but could not catch it today. I will be looking much more closely in coming days to add to the collection hoping to find a female.

Now for mating. The matids I had for months got their full wings 2 weeks ago so they are ready for mating. I have 2.5 to 70 gallon fish tanks plus some critter cages and yes, I can leave them in a small room if that is considered better. I used to have three matids in seperate cages. Placed all in one large fish tank while they were only about 2.5" in size, one moulted and another decided that was the time to get rid of the competition! They can't be left in one cage unless they are watched, lesson learned. But if she attacks the male after the fact, I'm not upset. I can allow them time together as I watch to hopefully prevent disaster from striking. But, what type of enviroment would be best? Planted, nothing at all, large or small container, open room? BTW I assume they are Chinese mantids.

When is the best time to try to mate them? Now or wait a while longer? I plan on placing the eggs in the fridge till spring. Storage advice? I've been reading a lot on mantids but sometimes there is conflicting info, one reason I'm asking so many questions.

Your Fav sites for info?

http://www.pbase.com/lejun/mantids_in_macro

http://www.rlephoto.com/bugs/mantis_praying/ The egg case I found looks exactly like the one at this web site

http://home.att.net/~hsk3/chiman.htm

http://www.hiltonpond.org/ThisWeek010522.html

Thanks,

Louis


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## Rick (Aug 30, 2005)

I personaly don't count segments on adult mantids. I can tell the sex as soon as I glance at them. If your mantids have wings they are adults and the females will be much bulkier. Maybe not longer but just bigger overall. The females abdomen will be larger and much wider however the males will be long and thin with a upturned scoop type deal on the end. Males usually have longer antenna (sp?) too. Course we don't know what species you have but this applies to most. Obviously you have to keep them seperate. I personaly will mate large to medium size species loose in the room. That way the male can have all the room he needs to escape. However if you have a large tank you can mate them in there as well. Usually to initiate mating I will put the male somewhere on a flat surface and let him settle down. Then I place the female several inches in front of him and make sure she walks away from him. If he is ready he will jump on her. Sometimes the male jumps on backwards but will usually turn around. Older males initiate much quicker than young males. If the female is ready she won't get to aggressive. If she goes crazy when he jumps on then you should wait a while longer and try again.


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## LGMS (Aug 30, 2005)

Thanks for the reply Rick.

&gt; females abdomen will be larger and much wider

Yes, all the pics I've seen show this but does this visual giveaway occur early on in their growth or later after the full wings develop?

Mine are all slender. I only saw one mantid that looked a bit fuller in the abdomen area and that was via binoculars not up close.

&gt;we don't know what species you have

Feel confident it's a Chinese mantid from all the pics I've seen of them.

I'll keep looking in the same area for the females. Guess I have 8 males now, added 4 more 2day. Clouds instead of sun may have kept the grasshoppers off the tops of the plants, they stayed lower down. All the mantids were found at the same level. Yesterday they all were higher up on the plants, interesting.

Rgds,

Louis


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## Rick (Aug 30, 2005)

Best way to identify sex on nymphs is to count the segments. Six on females and more for males. If they are adults though the females are stockier with wide abdomens. An adult females abdomen will kind of end in a hook shaped point. The adult males is long and slender with an upturned "scoop" on the end. I might take pics of them to show you.


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## LGMS (Sep 1, 2005)

&gt; Best way to identify sex on nymphs is to count the segments. Six on

&gt; females and more for males. If they are adults though the females

&gt; are stockier

I thought I noticed segments easier to see clearly on the small fry but I do notice that some adults are easier to see 8 segs on than others.

&gt; If they are adults though the females are stockier with wide abdomens.

&gt; An adult females abdomen will kind of end in a hook shaped point. The

&gt; adult males is long and slender with an upturned "scoop" on the end.

I've seen photos that clearly show the girth on the female abdomen. I just wondered when this starts to develop, early on or after becoming an adult?

BTW, after 8 males caught (a total of 12 caught by days end) I finally found a female, very "obvious". Jury is still out on one of the suspected males but it is slender compared to the female, but stockier than the other males. May simply have been well feed.

All mantids were around 90mm or 3 1/2 inches in length. It was simply surprising/curious to find so many males and no females until today. Nature says the odds are 50/50, 60/40, or something close to those numbers, not 1 in 12. That's why I wondered when the obvious visual changes start.

&gt; An adult females abdomen will kind of end in a hook shaped point.

And it looks smaller (than the male's), that last part of her abdomen.

Anyway, I'll drop this discussion here and finish the one in the General Discussions forum, "Finding/catching mantids" thread for now. Thanxs for the input Rick.

Rgds,

Louis


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