# More Ghosts hatching (Video)



## Precarious (Nov 21, 2010)

Solo

I'll be posting nymphs and ooths for sale over the next couple days.  

Music by Precarious


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## warpdrive (Nov 21, 2010)

awesome as always

Harry


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## angelofdeathzz (Nov 21, 2010)

who can resist hatching babies,especially when viewed from Precarious's camera?


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## Ricardo (Nov 22, 2010)

Precarious, what is your favorite mantid / mantids so far?

Also how big do the ghosts get?


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## Precarious (Nov 22, 2010)

Ricardo said:


> Precarious, what is your favorite mantid / mantids so far?
> 
> Also how big do the ghosts get?


My favorites so far are Idolomantis diabolica and Heterochaeta occidentalis.

Heterochaeta occidentalis L6 (Video)

Ghosts get about 2.5". Not too big but very cool just the same.


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## Ricardo (Nov 23, 2010)

Precarious said:


> My favorites so far are Idolomantis diabolica and Heterochaeta occidentalis.
> 
> Heterochaeta occidentalis L6 (Video)
> 
> Ghosts get about 2.5". Not too big but very cool just the same.


are the Heterochaeta communal?


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## Precarious (Nov 23, 2010)

Ricardo said:


> are the Heterochaeta communal?


YES! Gotta love 'em...


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## Rvernon (Nov 23, 2010)

Cool video.

I have two ghosts that just made it to adult. Any mating tips?

Thanx

RAV


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## Precarious (Nov 23, 2010)

miomantisguy said:


> Cool video.
> 
> I have two ghosts that just made it to adult. Any mating tips?
> 
> ...


Keep the females separate from the males until you're ready to mate them. I went through 2 males. Both got chomped.

I had pretty good success keeping 2 females and a male on a 4 foot tree I keep in my room. They lived there several weeks and connected. If the male got attacked he could easily fly away, which he did on several occasions. One time he wasn't fast enough.

Eventually I got tired of hand feeding them, so I moved them to an 18"x12"x12" tank. THIS ONE actually. Eventually the second male got chomped in there, but he mounted multiple times with each before that happened.

The bottom line is if you keep them together eventually the male will be eaten. So if you don't want to lose him you'll have to arrange hook ups while keeping them apart in between.

Good luck!


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## Pet Duck Boy (Nov 23, 2010)

So Precarious, are they easy breeders in general? I have 2 sexed pairs...


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## Precarious (Nov 23, 2010)

Myrmecologist said:


> So Precarious, are they easy breeders in general? I have 2 sexed pairs...


It did take a while for mine to hook up, but I wanted to let things run their course naturally. I guess most people sit the female out and giver her something to eat, then place the male behind her. Or they pack her full of food and introduce her to the male's cage.

I liked seeing them hang out by the window climbing around on the tree. They really liked it and knew they were free. That way it was up to them if they wanted to make out.  

They would spend hours and hours staring into each others eyes. I think they kind of need that to get used to each other. And if they didn't want to be bothered they could climb to other side of the tree and be alone.

It was similar once they were in the big tank. The male was smart. He would hide out most of the time. But I'd catch him stalking a female. He'd creep closer and closer. Sometimes they'd stare each other down. And he had enough room to fly away at dismount.

So overall, I really didn't do anything to encourage mating. I didn't increase heat or anything. I just let them do their thing when it made sense to them. Seems to have worked pretty well! Between 2 females I got 11 fertile ooths so far and they're still laying.


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## Pet Duck Boy (Nov 23, 2010)

Wow, sounds nice. How many nymphs do you typically get per ooth? How many matings did you witness? The free range option sounds nice...but I hae finicky parents, a sister who hates bugs, a nosy dog, and a couple pest ant colonies around the house that are known to raid my many captive insects.  How long does each mating last? I'll probably keep males seperate from the females, and stuff the girls. Then like most, I'll place the female infront of the male and hopefully that'll get 'em going.


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## sporeworld (Nov 23, 2010)

I've had no problems mating Ghosts communally. In fact, 3 weeks ago I put about 8 adult ghosts in a small tank (maybe 2 gallons), and watched them swap partners back and forth. They fed &amp; bred and no casualties (and it was pretty cramped). I then took a different group of the same size and set them up identically, except NO ADDED HEAT (so maybe 71 degrees tops). They also fed &amp; bred without incident. I put Blue Bottles in the enclosure about 5 at a time, each day. I kept adding more flies until they seemed disinterested (which usually left 1 or two stragglers).

What I HAVE been doing, is tagging the females that I've witnessed breeding, then tagging thier ooths to confirm that they should be fertile. Unlike Gongy's, I'm experiencing a lot variance in hatching times (my guess is temp related).

With a few exceptions, I think Ghost canibalism is either related to low food supply, or ambush opportunities. By that I mean, most of the foliage I have is delicate and sparse, and doesn't lend itself to hiding - mantids can see each other coming...

Hope that helps...


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## Precarious (Nov 23, 2010)

Myrmecologist said:


> Wow, sounds nice. How many nymphs do you typically get per ooth? How many matings did you witness? The free range option sounds nice...but I hae finicky parents, a sister who hates bugs, a nosy dog, and a couple pest ant colonies around the house that are known to raid my many captive insects.  How long does each mating last? I'll probably keep males seperate from the females, and stuff the girls. Then like most, I'll place the female infront of the male and hopefully that'll get 'em going.


I saw quite a few couplings with both males. Not sure how long they last because I'd usually catch it already in progress, but sometimes the male will hang on for a whole day. The female just walks around with him on her back. I guess it depends on how much the female will tolerate.

Yeah, free range is not for everybody. They do fly off now and then and you have to hunt them down. But it was fun. My Violins are essentially free range now. I keep them in a net cage with the flap open. They stay put most of the time. I like to give adults some extra freedom. Once they earn their wings they get special treatment.  

You're probably better off using the tried and true methods. I just like to experiment.


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## Precarious (Nov 23, 2010)

Sporeworld said:


> What I HAVE been doing, is tagging the females that I've witnessed breeding, then tagging thier ooths to confirm that they should be fertile. Unlike Gongy's, I'm experiencing a lot variance in hatching times (my guess is temp related).


That's great! And you're probably right. My last male was eaten when I was low on food.

You definitely need to keep track of who mated and who laid which ooth when. It was pretty simple with only 2 females and a single male. I'd go nuts trying to track 8 adults! What are you going to do with that many ooths?

Mine have been hatching pretty steadily. About 40 days incubation.

By the way, Idolo update coming soon! Recorded perfect molt to L7 this morning.


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## warpdrive (Nov 24, 2010)

Precarious said:


> By the way, Idolo update coming soon! Recorded perfect molt to L7 this morning.


congrats and thanks again for all the added info. (you too sporeworld)

it's not like I don't know anything, but I've been learning alot from you guys.

for someone new like me, that makes a huge differance then just ridding by the seat of my pants.

btw Sporeworld, what do you use to "tag" the females with? the ooths I can figure out as long as I keep the females apart and label the container that will hold the ooth, but the mantid if kept together with others? maybe I'm just not understanding what you are saying.

ah, it doesn't matter. once mated outside the cage, I'll probably keep the female alone to insure that the ooth is layed in peace. plus it will be easyer on me to be able to watch her closly for any problems.

I know I'm thinking way ahead of where I'm at right now, but I have a habit of preparing myself long before I do anything.

Harry


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## sporeworld (Nov 24, 2010)

We had a thread talking about different ways to tag them. I'm using different colored sharpie markers on their wings for the Gongy's, but sometimes I just take a picture with the Ghosts as they're pretty distinctive (color, size, shape seem to vary more). White out and nail polish might might work if not too toxic...


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## sporeworld (Nov 24, 2010)

Precarious said:


> What are you going to do with that many ooths?


That is a source of much musing around the office. We mantid folk are such a small community, with real reasons to be fearful of expansion - at least until someone can champion legislation to make this hobby Kosher. So what happens when the "market" gets saturated with something like Ghosts, that were previously rare (or seemed so)...? Does the market move on to something else (say Idols) as the big ticket item...? People seem to move from one species to another, so is this true for breeders as well...?

If hobbyists (re: NOT breeders) like me have population explosions, and give them away, am I ruining it for people who want to at least offset their food costs by selling nymphs...? Or does the constant influx of new people mean a stable market...?

Bottom-line: I don't know for sure. I'm pretty certain I'll stop doing ghosts this generation, so maybe I'll find a home for the new colony at a zoo or museum...? Something that keeps them "out of the market" but still serves some noble(ish) purpose...

PS: 40 days!?! I thought it was longer than that! ######!


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## Precarious (Nov 24, 2010)

Sporeworld said:


> PS: 40 days!?! I thought it was longer than that! ######!


That's all. 40 days and you will be drowning in little black ants!  

I was lucky in that one of my females was light green and the other dark. I just keep track of them in my log as light and dark.

I have a beautiful fresh chocolate brown female with streaks of pink in her wings, but no more male so she won't be mated. I should probably sell her to someone with a male. I see her desperately releasing pheromones.  

Actually, this is her. She was very green at molt but totally changed in the following days.

Ghost Female Final Molt (Video)

I'll try to get some pics of her new colors. Very pretty.


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## warpdrive (Nov 26, 2010)

Sporeworld said:


> That is a source of much musing around the office. We mantid folk are such a small community, with real reasons to be fearful of expansion - at least until someone can champion legislation to make this hobby Kosher. So what happens when the "market" gets saturated with something like Ghosts, that were previously rare (or seemed so)...? Does the market move on to something else (say Idols) as the big ticket item...? People seem to move from one species to another, so is this true for breeders as well...?


the thing is this, markets do change and grow for many reasons. they also do decine at times for vastly different reasons. (too many to list and or speak of rigt now)

yet there is always room for more begginer pets such as ghosts because there will always be a new batch of keepers that can't aford high priced and rare at the moment pets in the beginning of their hobbie.

price and ease of care are the main factors that new hobbiests are looking for regardless that they might not be rare. they just want them to be "eye cathing" or pleasing to them selfs and don't care if the breeder or hobbiest that they get them from doesn't make a dime on them.

most newbies are not looking to breed anything. they just want a pet. breeding to maintain their hobbie such as short lived mantids are an after thought of once they get them. on long life animals, they will prob not breed at all and just buy another.

what the new hobbiest dosn't think about in advance is two things:

1) truly how much care is involved to keep them...think about the first time you want to go away on vacation and now you can't find anyone to care for your pets when you go away with the whole family.

2) the hobbie that they are geting into can be addicting. thus, they wind up with plenty of things that can take over the home and wind up on the TV show "horders". not a joke folks.



> If hobbyists (re: NOT breeders) like me have population explosions, and give them away, am I ruining it for people who want to at least offset their food costs by selling nymphs...? Or does the constant influx of new people mean a stable market...?


I do have plans to "give away" some future nymps if I am lucky enough to do so. but only to ultra close friends that give away stuff to me...just like traiding.

but to others, I feel that if I don't charge something reasonible such as an "adoption fee", I know full well that the buyer will not take proper care of the new pet in general. not everyone cares the same about their pets. yet I'm not saying that anyone who is not obsessive about it is doing a bad job...because being too obsessed is bad for the owner as well.

giving away babies of anything hurts breeders/hobbiests from selling their extra stock. yet they wont normaly feel it. the community might be small, but it is not as small as the members of this forum. for every one member that regularly comes here each day, there are 20 that stop by from time to time. then there are the ones who never go online at all, never mind come here for added info.



> Bottom-line: I don't know for sure. I'm pretty certain I'll stop doing ghosts this generation, so maybe I'll find a home for the new colony at a zoo or museum...? Something that keeps them "out of the market" but still serves some noble(ish) purpose...PS: 40 days!?! I thought it was longer than that! ######!


good luck. but I would keep some just incase you have an explotion of wild FF population in your house...adding 1 per delli cup with a piece of orange in it makes a great FF trap to be placed around your home. just add holes in the delli cup for the FF to get in and I'm telling you it works like a charm. yet I'm sure most of you already know that.  

Harry


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## sporeworld (Nov 26, 2010)

Makes sense.


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## nebrakacinese (Nov 28, 2010)

I'm still keeping africans,carolinas,and some chinese i hatched.I dont feel confident enough yet for exotics,but some day...........


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