# Mantid stuck in skin!



## JTHMfreak (Apr 7, 2013)

So my mantis which appears to be an L5 has its arms stuck inits skin while molting. It has been this way for about 5-6 hours. Anything I can do to help?


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## sinensispsyched (Apr 7, 2013)

Not much I'm afraid.


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 7, 2013)

hopefully it has enough out that it can function.


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## brancsikia339 (Apr 7, 2013)

Nothing much, just hope she can figure out a way to escape


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## lancaster1313 (Apr 7, 2013)

Yes you can.

Wet the skin so it softens and try to help it out. For a small mantis, a needle or toothpick can brace the skin so the mantis can pull out on its own. Put the stick in between the forelegs and let the mantis try to pull free when the skin is soft from the water. Be careful and gentle if you try to pull the skin. Sometimes a leg can come off with it if you do it.

I posted in your other topic as well.


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 7, 2013)

I may try wetting the skin since mantis is still stuck


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 7, 2013)

likebugs said:


> Yes you can.
> 
> Wet the skin so it softens and try to help it out. For a small mantis, a needle or toothpick can brace the skin so the mantis can pull out on its own. Put the stick in between the forelegs and let the mantis try to pull free when the skin is soft from the water. Be careful and gentle if you try to pull the skin. Sometimes a leg can come off with it if you do it.
> 
> I posted in your other topic as well.


Thank you. I had to help pull the arms out as well as help detach old head skin off of the antennae. Mantis is doing great now and in capture food mode it seems


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 7, 2013)

Let the flies out, offered one to francis and he/she seemed uninterested. Francis does not seem to be closing arms when walking, or much at all. I hope being stuck in the molt skin did not cause any permanent damage.


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 8, 2013)

So update. Took francis out to crawl on my hand. Very active, using front arms to maneuver. Can extend the arms fully out ward, just does not seem to close them since the molt. Since there is definitely arm flexing and movement does this mean that the joint is not stuck?


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 8, 2013)

This is Francis' current state. Very active on my hand, can fully extend and open arms/claws. Just does not close them. I hope the mantis can be worked with and saved. Edit: If you look at the large size pic you can see that the antennae are also really messed up. I had to do quite a bit of work to help Francis out of the old skin.


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## MantidBro (Apr 8, 2013)

JTHMfreak said:


> This is Francis' current state. Very active on my hand, can fully extend and open arms/claws. Just does not close them. I hope the mantis can be worked with and saved. Edit: If you look at the large size pic you can see that the antennae are also really messed up. I had to do quite a bit of work to help Francis out of the old skin.


Wow, I'm glad he made it. The old skin is still stuck to the claws/raptors. That will be fixed with the next molt. For now you're going to have to hand feed. This happened with my Tenodera sinensis. I just hand fed him until he molted again and the situation was rectified.


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 8, 2013)

MantidBro said:


> Wow, I'm glad he made it. The old skin is still stuck to the claws/raptors. That will be fixed with the next molt. For now you're going to have to hand feed. This happened with my Tenodera sinensis. I just hand fed him until he molted again and the situation was rectified.


Good to know! How should I go about hand feeding fruit flies, they are the flightless ones. All I have on hand, except for few normal sized flies


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## sally (Apr 8, 2013)

Put a little honey on a toothpick and put the ff or ffs the more the better in the honey they will stick there .


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 8, 2013)

That is what I will try. Just so sad that my mantid qualifies for disabled parking. It was doing so well before the molt, and then BAM it became disfigured. I will do hand feeding for as long as it takes, I just hope the mantis can fix itself for its sake. I wish that I had gone with my original instinct of helping it out of the skin. But that is neither here nor there at this point. I just hope that my little one can recover from this mess.


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## sally (Apr 8, 2013)

I hope so. Offer water to drink also . When you get other bugs smush them a little an offer the goey part with tweezers. Hope all goes well.


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## lancaster1313 (Apr 8, 2013)

JTHMfreak said:


> That is what I will try. Just so sad that my mantid qualifies for disabled parking. It was doing so well before the molt, and then BAM it became disfigured. I will do hand feeding for as long as it takes, I just hope the mantis can fix itself for its sake. I wish that I had gone with my original instinct of helping it out of the skin. But that is neither here nor there at this point. I just hope that my little one can recover from this mess.


You did the right thing by asking what to do first. When you said that it looked to be still molting, in the other topic, I should have let you know that it was taking way too long. Anyway, it is probably better that you didn't go in there all pulling on the skin when the mantid was still teneral. One wrong move while they are still soft can tear their legs right off.

The good news is that Francis looks much better than the one I am caring for now.

Perhaps you can get a clear shot of the underside of its abdomen so we can stop referring to it as "it"?


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## MantidBro (Apr 8, 2013)

JTHMfreak said:


> Good to know! How should I go about hand feeding fruit flies, they are the flightless ones. All I have on hand, except for few normal sized flies


I use needles. I squish the fruit fly first so the guts pop out. Then stick it with a needle. Then put the guts against the mantids mouth. They may react defensively at first. But if you keep trying, the mantid will realize its food. You migt have to hold the needle still while it eats since it cant grab the food. Although the mantid may be able to hold onto it with its mouth while eating. So long as it eats, it'll be okay! And I'm quite certain the arms will be fixed with the next molt, like what happened with mine whose arms got stuck in the old skin.


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 8, 2013)

likebugs said:


> You did the right thing by asking what to do first. When you said that it looked to be still molting, in the other topic, I should have let you know that it was taking way too long. Anyway, it is probably better that you didn't go in there all pulling on the skin when the mantid was still teneral. One wrong move while they are still soft can tear their legs right off.
> 
> The good news is that Francis looks much better than the one I am caring for now.
> 
> Perhaps you can get a clear shot of the underside of its abdomen so we can stop referring ti it as "it"?


What should I be looking for underneath the abdomen? I really do hate using the word it


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## lancaster1313 (Apr 8, 2013)

I shall try to form a link with photos. I am horrible with computers so it will take a few minutes IF I can do it. lol

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=7110


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 8, 2013)

likebugs said:


> You did the right thing by asking what to do first. When you said that it looked to be still molting, in the other topic, I should have let you know that it was taking way too long. Anyway, it is probably better that you didn't go in there all pulling on the skin when the mantid was still teneral. One wrong move while they are still soft can tear their legs right off.
> 
> The good news is that Francis looks much better than the one I am caring for now.
> 
> Perhaps you can get a clear shot of the underside of its abdomen so we can stop referring ti it as "it"?


Wide abdomen with 6 segments, a GIRL!


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## MantidBro (Apr 8, 2013)

JTHMfreak said:


> Wide abdomen with 6 segments, a GIRL!


Nice! So Francis is Francina! Lol no jk


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## lancaster1313 (Apr 8, 2013)

With the proper husbandry, Francis the female is going to get big and live longer than a male will.


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 8, 2013)

Well I will attempt feeding her a honeyed fly later, hopefully with good results.


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## lancaster1313 (Apr 8, 2013)

Francis looks pretty good.

Depending on her temperament, it will either be no problem, or a pain in the patoot.


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## MantidBro (Apr 8, 2013)

JTHMfreak said:


> Well I will attempt feeding her a honeyed fly later, hopefully with good results.


Good luck bro.


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 8, 2013)

If francis will not take stick honey flies, how long would she survive on just honey? Til the next molt?

Put some honey on a skewer and stuck 2 ffs on it, lets hope they get eaten.


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 8, 2013)

likebugs said:


> Francis looks pretty good.
> 
> Depending on her temperament, it will either be no problem, or a pain in the patoot.


She just ate some honey and the head of a fruit fly. Wasn't exactly easy, but not too difficult either. But I did have to put her in the palm of my hand to feed her. Would have loved to get a pic but all my hands were busy. About how much should she eat daily or everyother?


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## ScienceGirl (Apr 8, 2013)

Congrats! As with all molting, humidity helps. Way to go by offering her honey (carbohydrate, trace minerals, antibacterial) and the fruit fly (protein and other things).


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 8, 2013)

likebugs said:


> I shall try to form a link with photos. I am horrible with computers so it will take a few minutes IF I can do it. lol
> 
> http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=7110


That was a big help btw, thank you


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## lancaster1313 (Apr 8, 2013)

I wouldn't go with too much honey with your feedings. When I use it as a sweetener, it is just enough so the small creature tastes it, just to get them started on the diet that is more natural for them.

Francis will need to have some good old fashioned insect meals and like them too.

I sometimes use a drop to test for appetite.

If I give it as a treat, it is after I know that the mantis has eaten naturally, and drank enough water.

I use royal jelly infused honey as a medicine for ill acting or injured mantids and roaches. I mix it with the food or water after the initial taste test.

Anytime I use straight honey or royal jelly honey, I will offer water before and after.

Edit:

Oh! How rude of me to write all that and not use manners.  .

You are very welcome for the link posting.

Rick sure made a nice and easy to understand topic on mantid sexing. He is always straight to the point with his advice. :smarty:


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 9, 2013)

Update: She just ate 1.5 fruit flies just now so that is good. Seems the appetite and the will are in place, just have to follow through on my part, which I will. Feeding Francis is at least less of a mes than when I feed my son, but very similar in how it's done. Hey that rhymed.


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## sally (Apr 9, 2013)

Good, I am glad Francis is eating.



JTHMfreak said:


> Update: She just ate 1.5 fruit flies just now so that is good. Seems the appetite and the will are in place, just have to follow through on my part, which I will. Feeding Francis is at least less of a mes than when I feed my son, but very similar in how it's done. Hey that rhymed.


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## glock34girl (Apr 9, 2013)

Eating is always good news!


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 10, 2013)

So tonight I fed Francis again. She surprised me by picking up a ff with her mandibles, tilted her head back and nom nom nommed all that she could before the ff fell out!


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## sally (Apr 10, 2013)

Awww. I am glad she is trying to eat on her own. Hopefully next time she can pick it up, chew and swallow the ff all by herself. It sounds like you are handing the situation like an expert! Cheers for Francis, keep it up


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 10, 2013)

sally said:


> Awww. I am glad she is trying to eat on her own. Hopefully next time she can pick it up, chew and swallow the ff all by herself. It sounds like you are handing the situation like an expert! Cheers for Francis, keep it up


HAHAHA I'm far from an expert, but I am patient. I also have almost 2 years of feeding a child (Aedan who is my son will be 2 on the 13th) so that is where I learned how to feed lol , So I do understand a little about how to feed someone, the mantis is easier and less messy though  

But I do hope that she makes it to the next molt and successfully overcomes this problem. I will say though that hand feeding my little girl has made me feel closer and much more like a parent to her. I hope that a single ff a day is not too much. She can be finnicky, but if put in front of her enough she will eat. I just want her to be healthy enough to molt again.


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## MantidBro (Apr 10, 2013)

JTHMfreak said:


> HAHAHA I'm far from an expert, but I am patient. I also have almost 2 years of feeding a child (Aedan who is my son will be 2 on the 13th) so that is where I learned how to feed lol , So I do understand a little about how to feed someone, the mantis is easier and less messy though
> 
> But I do hope that she makes it to the next molt and successfully overcomes this problem. I will say though that hand feeding my little girl has made me feel closer and much more like a parent to her. I hope that a single ff a day is not too much. She can be finnicky, but if put in front of her enough she will eat. I just want her to be healthy enough to molt again.


It seems like things are definitely heading in the right direction. Good thing you are patient and have experience feeding, lol. I can understand how mantids are less messy. I don't think a fruit fly a day is too much, it might even be too little, honestly, seeing how she's L5. But the fact that she's eating is definitely a good sign. It DOES make you feel closer, too, to hand-feed them... I've noticed that, too.


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 11, 2013)

Francis ate 3, count em, 3 fruit flies tonight. She was also jumping all over the place. So it seems like her strength as well as appetite are both returning.


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 13, 2013)

So, Francis did not eat tonight or last night (unless you count the honey she licked off of the flies), But I am strangely not worried. She seems to have a lot (and by a lot I mean A LOT) of energy. When I take her out to feed and put her on my hand, she runs around like crazy, she also likes to do what I call the "jump of death" which is jumping off of my hand 3-4 feet to the ground, she does this 2-3 times a night.


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## lancaster1313 (Apr 13, 2013)

Have you tried giving her any moths, or anything without honey?

I think they get sick of honey and just have to lick it sometimes because it is sticky, and they need to keep clean. I test to see if they really want honey by putting it to their mouth and taking it about a centimeter in front of them. If they move forward trying to get it, then they actually want it.

Is she able to groom her face with her claws at all?


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 13, 2013)

She seems able to groom her face with claws.


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## lancaster1313 (Apr 13, 2013)

Great!


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 14, 2013)

Here are some pics of her eating a ff with nothing more than her mandibles, just picked up the ff and ate it completely, then she just hung out.


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 17, 2013)

Here are the best ones from late last night early this morning, she ate about 3 of the flies.


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## sally (Apr 17, 2013)

I am so glad she is doing well. You are doing a great job with her


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 17, 2013)

sally said:


> I am so glad she is doing well. You are doing a great job with her


Thank you. I just hope that her next molt goes well enough to be able to capture and eat prey on her own.


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 20, 2013)

Tried to offer a water moth last night but it was a no go and she ended up with fruit flies instead


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## JTHMfreak (Apr 28, 2013)

Hopefully her molt will happen soon, I feel that it should be anyday now, got some cool pics and vid of her eating up close, will upload later when I get a chance


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## JTHMfreak (May 6, 2013)

Well between 1am and 3am Francis died, I checked on her not long ago and found her motionless standing up at the bottom of her enclosure. The odd thing is that she was exhibiting so much energy earlier tonight when I fed her. I wish I knew what caused this so I can avoid it next time. Really bummed out by this.


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## sally (May 6, 2013)

So sorry. You did so well with Francis


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## Tony C (May 6, 2013)

JTHMfreak said:


> Well between 1am and 3am Francis died, I checked on her not long ago and found her motionless standing up at the bottom of her enclosure. The odd thing is that she was exhibiting so much energy earlier tonight when I fed her. I wish I knew what caused this so I can avoid it next time. Really bummed out by this.


Losses are inevitable, species which reproduce _en masse_ do so as a strategy to compensate for a high rate of mortality. You can reduce the rate of loss with good husbandry but it cannot be eliminated, even under the best conditions some just aren't meant to make it.


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## JTHMfreak (May 6, 2013)

Well, it appears I was wrong. I thought maybe I should hang her upside down and check on her later, and there is movement. Has anyone experienced this before? Seven hours ago she was not giving any signs of life at all, even after being picked up. Could this finally be the molt?


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## Sticky (May 6, 2013)

Could be, try to hang her carefully and wait to see what happens.There is always hope!


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## JTHMfreak (May 6, 2013)

I hung her with great care, unfortunately I have to be out for a couple hours later on for a job interview, so I won't be able to help her out if she gets stuck. Why would she have tried to molt standing up though, if that is what was going on.


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## sally (May 6, 2013)

Maybe she didn't have the strength to make it to the top. Or maybe she fell and couldn't get up... Good luck Francis


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## JTHMfreak (May 6, 2013)

Well she is alive, and in the molting position. She is hanging from her back most legs fully outstretched, her middle set extended to the side, and her arms doing her thing. I am going to keep an extremely close watch on her tonight, how long should I expect for this molt to take?


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## sally (May 6, 2013)

I am not sure. I hope she has enough strength to get all the way through the molt. Here's hoping for the best


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## Krissim Klaw (May 7, 2013)

Any updates? I hope your little dear made it.


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## JTHMfreak (May 7, 2013)

She fell a couple of times, two to be exact. I was able to prop her into the molting position, but I am not feeling very optimistic about it. She is currently upside down with absolutely no movement. But I just can't bring myself to the point of giving up, I thought she was dead 24 hrs ago, and then she showed life! But right now she just hangs still, with no movement at all. The worst part is she is my second mantis, the first did not survive, she survived much much longer, but throughout doing all the hand feeding I became attached. I guess if it does not work out I will give it one last try and hope for the best, but my hopes are not very high.


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## sally (May 7, 2013)

you did so well caring for Francis. I know it is very hard to lose a mantis, even harder with the first few.


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## JTHMfreak (May 7, 2013)

Well, she is still hanging, but there is no movement. She has been this way for 12 hours. Time to throw the towel in?


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## JTHMfreak (May 9, 2013)

RIP Francis, you kicked some butt while you lived and will be missed. I just wish I knew what made it to where she could not get through this last molt. I had fed her every 2-3 days, and she had lots of energy.


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## lancaster1313 (May 9, 2013)

So sorry. Sometimes they die without an easy explanation.


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## BugLover (May 9, 2013)

Sorry about your mantis


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