# Carrot Controversy



## [email protected] (Jan 18, 2015)

I have seen many posts and read many different things on the internet about feeder crickets fed carrots and killing the mantids feeding on them.

I was always so scared of hurting my babies that it took a long time before I tried it. I would always first change the cricket guts to kale or lettuce for a couple days first though. I also fed them very moderately. They seemed to do fine for months.

(Now looking back at the ooths that were laid from when I started feeding the crickets, have a little brownish color in them that is different from the ooths that hatched last year. One person told me that was ok).

Anyways, I became more and more lax, until I fed them haphazardly (about a month ago) without changing the cricket guts and not careful about the quantity of crickets fed. All my mantids were effected:

First, my Amazing girl (she laid 14 ooths) was throwing pieces of crickets away and throwing up. I just thought she was old. She died first. Next, a weak outdoor rescued female kept throwing up and died. Last night my indoor old girl died after fighting for a while. Also, I still have another rescue that is still throwing up. The good news is that I have 5 strong mantids that seemed to recover after throwing up and/ or laying dark brownish ooths.

There is no mistake. This happened from just 1 batch of crickets that were fed carrots. However, there are many other variables: my home temperature was decreased by 10 degrees or more. I have no idea what else the crickets were exposed to. Also, I believe that as the mantids get older they just cannot fight bacteria like when they are younger.

I wonder if the carrots provide a sugar medium for mold? Could this just be from some kind of pathogenic bacteria on the crickets?

How can I help my girl that is still throwing up? I am just feeding grasshoppers and fruit flies now.

Sorry so long. I appreciate any input.


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## Sticky (Jan 18, 2015)

I dont feed my mantids crickets, I use dubia roaches or lobster roaches. In summer I catch wild moths and my guys love em! Especially my big females. I give carrot to my pet roaches, I dont feed them off. But I give other yummies to my feeders, apple,orange etc...

One of my mantids came down ill with throwing up brown gunk and brown liquid diarrhea. She died 8 hours later. No crickets, carrot or anything poisonous. Just a big lobster roach. I am still mystified as to the cause.


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## MantidBro (Jan 18, 2015)

i sometimes wonder if mantids are sensitive to certain bits.... Like the spiked legs of crickets. What if the tiny end piece isnt chewed up enough and it impales the mantid internally. It is possible that itd happen with other hard shelled insects. Could be the hooks on some inverts feet. Or maybe its just the hard bits in generally. Maybe its hard to digest, maybe it causes compaction. Idk just a thought. My mantids can eat pinheads no problem. Maybe because they are softer because they are still young? I actually remember feeding them carrots too... but no issues? My male ghost died after i switched from wax worms to superworms, the hard shelled worms... hmm.

I stick with feeding mine maggots, flies and wax worms. All are soft... No deaths by puking since

Might be bad bacteria too. Like maybe healthy crickets chew on one that just died. And eat the bad bacteria so even if you remove the dead cricket as soon as you see it, its already too late cause the bad bacteria had already been passed on. plus if the home isnt cleaned regularly the bad bacteria will add up. I really am not sure. I am also unwilling to do any tests... Since finding out whats wrong, would result in death. Maybe one mantid should be risked... So we can save future owner's mantids... And figure out the issue once and for all. Im not sure i could ever go through with it though. I love my mantids.


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## MantidBro (Jan 18, 2015)

btw... My mantid who was puking made it through. I kept her in the shade. I made sure she wasnt stimulated. And i didnt feed her the first day. Only offered water. She would puke the water up at first but then stopped. So i moved up to honey the next day. She puked from that at first too. But then was able to eat it without puking. I continued with honey and water for another day. Then the fourth day put honey on a fly. I put the honey towards her and she ended up eating the entire fly without puking. Might be worth trying. Honey has antibiotic properties. So if it was caused by bacteria that might help.


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## [email protected] (Jan 19, 2015)

yeah, my one that is puking ate honey yesterday like crazy! Maybe she knows it will help!


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## Krissim Klaw (Jan 20, 2015)

Does anyone have the source/concrete information on why carrots are supposedly bad? I've seen this rumor spread around for years, but I've never seen anyone with any substantial studies or facts backing it up.


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## patrickfraser (Jan 20, 2015)

I feed carrots to my feeder roaches and have never noticed anything problematic. Is it maybe the carrot/cricket combo? Maybe a difference between how carrot is processed in different insects? I have no idea.


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## LAME (Jan 20, 2015)

if one of my ooths hatch soon, id be willing on behalf of the community to sacrifice a nymph towards this topic.

take two specimens and feed one normal raised crickets, and the other feeding off a batch of carrot fed..


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## MantidBro (Jan 20, 2015)

LAME said:


> if one of my ooths hatch soon, id be willing on behalf of the community to sacrifice a nymph towards this topic.
> 
> take two specimens and feed one normal raised crickets, and the other feeding off a batch of carrot fed..


Cool bro! thatd be a help to all mantid owners!


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## Krissim Klaw (Jan 20, 2015)

patrickfraser said:


> I feed carrots to my feeder roaches and have never noticed anything problematic. Is it maybe the carrot/cricket combo? Maybe a difference between how carrot is processed in different insects? I have no idea.


I've never noticed problems with carrots and crickets or carrots with roaches. Admittedly I always feed a wide variety of food so it isn't like that is all they are eating. I sometimes wonder if the carrot rumor merely started because carrots are a popular choice when it comes to the miss-information often spread that all you need to do is stick a slice of carrot or potato in with your crickets and they will get all their water/food from that.

On the other hand I have also heard of a numerous cases of this mystery black vomit where the crickets being offered at the time weren't being fed carrots.


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## [email protected] (Jan 21, 2015)

I have never seen any studies. That experiment sounds great! We appreciate your sacrifice.

I am starting to think that carrots are just the most common thing that stores feed their crickets. I think all strong mantids can fight a little mold and/or they may even have some normally in their guts like we do: candida. Maybe the cause of the black puke is just an overgrowth of candida.

If they don't have candida in their guts normally, and they are exposed to mold, maybe they have a harder time fighting the mold when exposed to any sugar except honey. Fungi/ mold/ yeast feeds on sugar.


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## CosbyArt (Jan 21, 2015)

Interesting read and a great offer by Lame. I've never feed my crickets carrots but doubt that is a likely cause either - as said it is just the most common food so it gets blamed.

Personally I'd just switch to roaches and avoid the issue but there is no way to convince my wife they wouldn't infest the home when there are any escapees.


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## Seal36 (Jan 21, 2015)

I think it mainly depends on the crickets health because crickets and mantids are quite closely related if a cricket has a infection and it gets eaten by the mantis the mantis then inherits that infection because they are so closely related. Although eating one cricket might not kill the mantis if they eat enough of them the infection will build up and finally take over the mantis and kill it. I know from a bad batch of crickets where it took out a lot of my stock and not just mantids from Tom


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## MantidBro (Jan 21, 2015)

Seal36 said:


> I think it mainly depends on the crickets health because crickets and mantids are quite closely related if a cricket has a infection and it gets eaten by the mantis the mantis then inherits that infection because they are so closely related. Although eating one cricket might not kill the mantis if they eat enough of them the infection will build up and finally take over the mantis and kill it. I know from a bad batch of crickets where it took out a lot of my stock and not just mantids from Tom


Interesting theory!


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## Seal36 (Jan 22, 2015)

Yeah a bad batch of crickets killed 9 of my animals in 3 days. I know it was the crickets because the animals dying where the animals that were feeding on crickets. When I realised what it was I changed some of the other animals over to mealworms and they were fine and I had no more deaths thanks from Tom


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## [email protected] (Jan 22, 2015)

Tom,

Sorry for your loss. Yeah, that makes sense. It is as simple as that. I just wonder why the crickets get infections so easily and what kind of infections they are exactly.


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## Seal36 (Jan 23, 2015)

It's a bacteria infection that they get in their stomachs and its usually started by one cricket eating a cricket that has died. Silent and brown crickets are less prone to the infections where as black crickets and your standard crickets are much more likely to contract the infection. From Tom


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## [email protected] (Jan 26, 2015)

Outside I have striped looking "silent" crickets (they don't chirp). are those the silent crickets you are talking about?


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## [email protected] (Jan 26, 2015)

Oh, Tom, what does their hemolymph consist of? I'm sure enzymes and something like HCl. What bacteria do mantids normally have in their gut? Lactobacillius? Bacteriodes? Any candida?


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