# Orchid Breeding



## Mantis_Whisper (Sep 12, 2008)

Okay, I finally got my hands on some orchid males, courtesy of Aiko. (I'm so grateful to him.  )

So the males jumped to it as soon as they saw the females, happy and well horny. The first pair mated three times... took them nine hours to finish. The other pair just started mating. &lt;_&lt; 

So anyway, pictures and a video!

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jl0Q2QovaI The males tap the females back... anyone else have this happen... never heard of it before.

First Pair







Second Pair






First Pair Mating






Second Pair Mating






I can't wait till they start laying!


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## mantidsandgeckos (Sep 12, 2008)

Wow, you must be one of the few people in the US to breed them now! :lol:


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## mantidsandgeckos (Sep 12, 2008)

Wow, the tapping was weird! Won't it scratch the females wings?


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## Mantis_Whisper (Sep 12, 2008)

friendofgeckos said:


> Wow, you must be one of the few people in the US to breed them now! :lol:


Yeah.... It's kinda sad too. The US needs more of this species. It'd help if more people loaned out males.

Yeah it is.... I really don't see any damage, it looks like they use the smooth side of thier claws. They do it constantly too.


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## Mantis_Whisper (Sep 12, 2008)

Oh, and a question for exprienced orchid breeders.

I was wondering if I should remove the male from the female. If he already mated and is just hanging out is it okay to remove? Otherwise I'll keep them on there, I just don't want the males to starve, since they are not mine.


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## pedro92 (Sep 12, 2008)

Mantis_Whisper said:


> Yeah.... It's kinda sad too. The US needs more of this species. It'd help if more people loaned out males.Yeah it is.... I really don't see any damage, it looks like they use the smooth side of thier claws. They do it constantly too.


I have 8 orchids and most or all of them appear to be males i need help sexing them though. I bought mag glass to see abdomen but still wanna double check


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## Mantis_Whisper (Sep 12, 2008)

Chameleonare said:


> I have 8 orchids and most or all of them appear to be males i need help sexing them though. I bought mag glass to see abdomen but still wanna double check


Yeah I have trouble telling thier gender too.

What instar are they?


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## pedro92 (Sep 12, 2008)

Mantis_Whisper said:


> Yeah I have trouble telling thier gender too.What instar are they?


Around L5. looks like sub adult


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## Mantis_Whisper (Sep 12, 2008)

Chameleonare said:


> Around L5. looks like sub adult


I think subadult is around L6 or L7. They confused me too when they were younger. I thought they were both male for the longest time.


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## Pelle (Sep 13, 2008)

I made a movie once of the tapping

Movie


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## collinchang635 (Sep 13, 2008)

Why does the male tap the female? Testing her patience?


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## Mantis_Whisper (Sep 13, 2008)

I made a movie too.... worse quailty though.

Someone said before it's to tell the female that they're there, which judging from their size I think it could be a good reason. With the other species the males are huge, so the females know they're there, but it looked like the female orchids didn't even notice the males, even when they started mating.


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## collinchang635 (Sep 13, 2008)

Mantis_Whisper said:


> I made a movie too.... worse quailty though.Someone said before it's to tell the female that they're there, which judging from their size I think it could be a good reason. With the other species the males are huge, so the females know they're there, but it looked like the female orchids didn't even notice the males, even when they started mating.


Guess it makes sense. The males are really small compared to the females. How big does both genders of this species grow?


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## Mantis_Whisper (Sep 13, 2008)

I Like Mantis said:


> Guess it makes sense. The males are really small compared to the females. How big does both genders of this species grow?


I just measured all four of the mantises. I got 1.5 inches (3.81 cm) for the males, and 3.5 (8.89 cm) inches for the females.

Yeah.... It was kinda funny, the males just walked onto the females' backs and the girls didn't even bat an eye.


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## The_Asa (Sep 13, 2008)

Congratulations! And I love the lighting on the first two pictures.


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## hibiscusmile (Sep 13, 2008)

Mine flap their wings constantly. Haven't seen the tapping. I think he is saying "hey let me in" :lol: .

If anyone is unsure of their s e x , send me pick of back end, even at 2nd instar, I can now tell them apart


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## Mantis_Whisper (Sep 13, 2008)

The_Asa said:


> Congratulations! And I love the lighting on the first two pictures.


Thanks. Yeah, that's coimg from my sandfish tank. It's got an extremely bright light, it gives my pictures a orangish hue.



hibiscusmile said:


> Mine flap their wings constantly. Haven't seen the tapping. I think he is saying "hey let me in" :lol: .If anyone is unsure of their s e x , send me pick of back end, even at 2nd instar, I can now tell them apart


I didn't see the flapping. The odd thing is they still do it, even when they're connected. The male would go a hour straight without doing it and then do it every minute for four hours. It was weird.... I couldn't fall asleep either, they kept doing it. :blink:


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## collinchang635 (Sep 14, 2008)

Mantis_Whisper said:


> I think subadult is around L6 or L7. They confused me too when they were younger. I thought they were both male for the longest time.


Is the problem with counting the segments because it is too small?


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## Mantis_Whisper (Sep 14, 2008)

I Like Mantis said:


> Is the problem with counting the segments because it is too small?


I think so.... though when I s e x my mantises I look at the last segment, it usually works, but orchids always threw me off.... even when older.


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## collinchang635 (Sep 15, 2008)

Mantis_Whisper said:


> I think so.... though when I s e x my mantises I look at the last segment, it usually works, but orchids always threw me off.... even when older.


Maybe you should try to take a picture and enlarge the photo. Thats what I do. It works pretty well. I could tell what gender they were from L2.


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## AikoAiko (Sep 15, 2008)

Mantis_Whisper said:


> Okay, I finally got my hands on some orchid males, courtesy of Aiko. (I'm so grateful to him.  )
> 
> Yeah! That's my boys! So glad things are working out.
> 
> ...


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## Mantis_Whisper (Sep 15, 2008)

AikoAiko said:


> Yeah! That's my boys! So glad things are working out. And, um, I'm a girl, Andrea, not a boy!
> 
> Aiko


............................. Oops, I feel like such a dolt now. I'm gonna go sit in the corner of lost dignity now. :blink: 

Yep, they did really good, they it took them three days to finally leave the female's backs. :mellow:


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## AikoAiko (Sep 15, 2008)

Chameleonare said:


> I have 8 orchids and most or all of them appear to be males i need help sexing them though. I bought mag glass to see abdomen but still wanna double check


I know this isn't anything that hasn't been said before, but there are other ways to sex orchids besides counting segments. Looking for the v-shaped abdomen groove on the females was how I initially sexed mine when I got them at L2 and for me this was easier than segment counting.

The horn also becomes more and more visible in females the older they get and a size difference is noticeable even in the younger instars. My sole female was noticeably larger than the males around L4.

I also think that the lobes on the female's legs are larger, rounder, and more deeply curved than the males. The male's leg lobes have shallower curves to them (or so it seems to me. Anyone else notice this?).


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## Rob Byatt (Sep 16, 2008)

AikoAiko said:


> I also think that the lobes on the female's legs are larger, rounder, and more deeply curved than the males. The male's leg lobes have shallower curves to them (or so it seems to me. Anyone else notice this?).


This is how I normally s e x this species - when you have seen hundreds you can be 90% accurate at 2nd/3rd instar.


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## collinchang635 (Sep 16, 2008)

AikoAiko said:


> I know this isn't anything that hasn't been said before, but there are other ways to sex orchids besides counting segments. Looking for the v-shaped abdomen groove on the females was how I initially sexed mine when I got them at L2 and for me this was easier than segment counting.The horn also becomes more and more visible in females the older they get and a size difference is noticeable even in the younger instars. My sole female was noticeably larger than the males around L4.
> 
> I also think that the lobes on the female's legs are larger, rounder, and more deeply curved than the males. The male's leg lobes have shallower curves to them (or so it seems to me. Anyone else notice this?).


Can you tell the gender of this species using the size of the abdomen?


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## d0rk2dafullest (Sep 16, 2008)

i've been looking at my female and male and comparing.

1 my female is larger than male

2 my female is more aggressive at eating

3 my female does have larger lobes and are more curved vs the males

but then again i am only looking at 2 different orchid mantids =)


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## Mantis_Whisper (Sep 24, 2008)

Well I have some bad news.

My older female died a couple of days ago, producing no ooth before doing so. I don't blame her though, she's over a year old, as is the other one. I'll just have to cross my fingers and hope for the best.


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## AikoAiko (Sep 24, 2008)

Sorry to hear about your female. Maybe the other one will lay soon...

I'm still anxiously waiting for Kerrigan to molt. She's stopped eating, has swollen wingbuds, and is pinker in color, so I think it will be very soon. Hopefully everything will go well with the molt and I will be able to breed her soon.

How are the boys doing?


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## Mantis_Whisper (Sep 25, 2008)

AikoAiko said:


> Sorry to hear about your female. Maybe the other one will lay soon... I'm still anxiously waiting for Kerrigan to molt. She's stopped eating, has swollen wingbuds, and is pinker in color, so I think it will be very soon. Hopefully everything will go well with the molt and I will be able to breed her soon.
> 
> How are the boys doing?


I'm hoping, I really do wnat to raise orchids.

The boys are doing fine, look at me weird whenever I walk into the room, it's quite odd, but cute.

Oh, good luck.


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## Mantis_Whisper (Oct 4, 2008)

REALLY REALLY good news!

I woke up this morning, did my daily checkup and saw my female orchid laying an ooth! Right now it's about two inches long, and she's still laying.

I took a couple pictures, but I can't find my camrea cord. Someone moved it on me. You'll get to see the pictures when I've tracked down the elusive cord.


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## idolomantis (Oct 4, 2008)

Mantis_Whisper said:


> REALLY REALLY good news!I woke up this morning, did my daily checkup and saw my female orchid laying an ooth! Right now it's about two inches long, and she's still laying.
> 
> I took a couple pictures, but I can't find my camrea cord. Someone moved it on me. You'll get to see the pictures when I've tracked down the elusive cord.


    That's wicked!!!!!!


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## The_Asa (Oct 4, 2008)

Hatch the ooth, raise the babies, and please make the price on these guys go down! :lol: Best of lucks


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