# Why is my mantis bleeding?



## rhetoriccamel (Jun 27, 2017)

My oldest mantis, Manty (talked about it in my introduction) has recently began either puking blood, pooping blood, or something else but there are no signs of cuts or anything. I saw an old post from a few years back describing a mantis puking blood looks squiggly due to them wiping their faces of puke/blood. This does not look the same as that. 

I have a paper towel on the top of the cage, and the screen cover over it. I originally had the paper towel there to keep fruit flies from escaping the cage. I then started misting the paper towel to add a bit of humidity and realized that this attracted the fruit flies to it which worked out great since Manty loves to hang out up on top. Basically the food comes to Manty and he/she will eat if hungry. 

Yesterday I woke up to a bloody spot on the paper towel. I assumed it was probably from a firefly I put in the cage since I don't see it in there anymore. Figured it may have been a particularly bloody insect. Not something I would feed my mantis regularly. 

This morning I woke up to multiple spots of blood on the new paper towel I put on the top last night. I'm quite nervous about this issue, and I'm afraid to give Manty anymore fruit flies, or anything to eat in general. 

I have provided a picture of what I woke up to this morning. Aside from the bloody spots, Manty seems to be doing alright. Capable of climbing up and down the glass, and walks around just fine. Does it's little butt wiggle when it sees me looking into the cage up close. Nothing seems out of the ordinary, but I'm worried. I have a soft spot for this mantis since it's my first one I've ever owned. I love all types of creatures and critters, so it would be a bit heartbreaking for him/her to die on me at such a young age. 

Manty was hatched on June 1, first molt June 13, second molt was on June 23. I found the molt laying on the bottom of the cage, but not sure if that is where he/she decided to molt or not since I wasn't home when it happened. I would think that if Manty fell during molt he/she would have possibly died by now since it has been 4 days already and they (from what I've read) typically die within 72 hours of falling. Also no limb issues of the sort, all legs and arms seem perfectly in tact. 

Any help or information would be greatly appreciated!


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## proserpina (Jun 28, 2017)

I had the same issue a few months back. I had finished feeding my mantises and one of them puked on his lid and all over the sides of his cup. However, this happened because he had overeaten and was gorged (he wasn't the only one who had vomited, too--I had two other pukers!).

How much had you fed Manty, or how fat was he/she?


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## rhetoriccamel (Jun 28, 2017)

proserpina said:


> I had the same issue a few months back. I had finished feeding my mantises and one of them puked on his lid and all over the sides of his cup. However, this happened because he had overeaten and was gorged (he wasn't the only one who had vomited, too--I had two other pukers!).
> 
> How much had you fed Manty, or how fat was he/she?


Hey @proserpina, thanks for the reply. I had fed Manty about 10 fruit flies, and also a firefly that came into the house (I did not see Manty eat the firefly but I have not seen it since that night). Before I fed Manty he/she hadn't eaten in a few days due to molting. I waited a day after his/her molt to dump in the fruit flies. Manty ate the fruit flies and then the next two mornings is when I found the blood in his/her cage. 

I did not see any new blood spots in the cage this morning. 

The thing that makes me wonder about it the most is that I fed my other mantis, who just had his/her second molt a couple hours ago today, the same amount of fruit flies, but no signs of vomit although he/she was smaller and looked fatter than Manty. I'm thinking Manty ate that firefly and maybe that was too much food on top of the fruit flies.


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## proserpina (Jun 28, 2017)

rhetoriccamel said:


> Hey @proserpina, thanks for the reply. I had fed Manty about 10 fruit flies, and also a firefly that came into the house (I did not see Manty eat the firefly but I have not seen it since that night). Before I fed Manty he/she hadn't eaten in a few days due to molting. I waited a day after his/her molt to dump in the fruit flies. Manty ate the fruit flies and then the next two mornings is when I found the blood in his/her cage.
> 
> I did not see any new blood spots in the cage this morning.
> 
> The thing that makes me wonder about it the most is that I fed my other mantis, who just had his/her second molt a couple hours ago today, the same amount of fruit flies, but no signs of vomit although he/she was smaller and looked fatter than Manty. I'm thinking Manty ate that firefly and maybe that was too much food on top of the fruit flies.


I can certainly understand why you'd be alarmed. Believe me, when I saw what looked like drops of blood on the sides of my mantis's cup, I panicked too. However, like I said, this was after he had gorged himself so he simply vomited some of what he ate out.

If I'm not mistaken, I really don't believe that Manty _actually_ puked blood--it _looks_ like blood, but it's probably either because he/she ate too much (like mine) or because his/her stomach didn't agree with the firefly. I'm actually not sure if fireflies are safe for mantises to eat or not so I'd avoid giving Manty another one just to be safe, and if Manty still vomits after eating some flies there might be something up with your culture. Take a look at this thread--it'll give you some reassurance.


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## CosbyArt (Jun 28, 2017)

@rhetoriccamel Fireflies, lighting bugs, etc (Lampyridae) are beetles and are toxic to mantids from the chemicals they use to produce the bioluminescence (light flashes). They also have lucibufagins in their blood, that make them taste terrible to predators. Hopefully Manty ate the firefly head, and he is now cleansing his system of the firefly by vomiting.

The stuff seen in the image is vomit, mantids blood is a green/yellow color as they do not have hemoglobin. He should be back to normal tomorrow, and if you are worried give him some real 100% honey as a treat to help sooth his belly.  

The so called "black death" you are worried about is something else entirely, the vomit is a black tar like substance that has a strong odor.


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## rhetoriccamel (Jun 29, 2017)

Thank you very much, @CosbyArt. That makes total sense that they would be a bad thing to eat. I don't think many animals or insects mess with fireflies. It wasn't something I had considered feed my mantis, I had caught it and threw it in the cage. It wasn't until about 20 minutes later I saw it flashing its light. Didn't think much of it at the time. I will definitely be more careful in what I feed my mantises in the future. 

Out of curiosity, are there any good lists of bugs to not feed a mantis?


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## CosbyArt (Jun 30, 2017)

@rhetoriccamel Yes, wild feeder insects are being discussed in this topic.


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## rhetoriccamel (Jul 1, 2017)

Yesterday was the first time feeding both my mantises since Manty had the blood on his/her cage. I fed both my mantises the same amount of fruit flies, but this morning I woke up to more regurgitation from Manty. My other mantis is fine with no signs of regurgitating. Should I be concerned now, or should I stick to only feeding Manty 2 or 3 fruit flies every couple days? 

Edit: the fruit flies I'm using was a culture made by Josh's Frogs, and the type of fruit fly is _Drosophila melanogaster _because I had read they are least likely to have issues with mites. Being a newbie to all of this I didn't want to have a higher chance of mite issues.


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## Kermit (Jul 1, 2017)

Yes fireflies are no good... Certainly the problem.

Try hand feeding honey to help him get through this.

I quit feeding my PMs wild feeders long ago... To many chances for pesticides. Especially flying insets as the cover a lot of ground and might happen across poisons.

Keep us posted ?


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## CosbyArt (Jul 1, 2017)

@rhetoriccamel If Manty is still trying to eat, hanging on his lid, and otherwise responding normal then he is sick, but should recover fine. Being that the fluids from the firefly have upset his digestive tract, the best treatment being to feed Manty 100% real honey as suggested previously, but recommended now as he must have digested some of the firefly before he quit eating it. The honey is like pure energy for mantids (great especially if they can't eat anything), boosts their immune systems, and helps kill infections/bacteria.

The honey is best fed from the end of a toothpick, lightly smeared on to Manty's leg (like a cat he will clean it off), or smearing a tiny amount of the honey near his hanging position in his home (although it can be messy to clean off things later). In addition to honey, you can also offer Manty pollen (I've only ever found it at a Amish supply store locally, but can be found online) and if in granular form smash it to powder first then mix in the honey. The added pollen makes the honey even better, but not necessary as real honey has pollen in it, but is not in the fake grocery store honey.

I know it sounds silly, but the honey has saved many mantids when they were sick or physically unable to eat due to a bad molt (surviving to successfully molt fixing the issue).

Also if you are able to find a appropriate sized tiny moth, 1/3 of the Manty's length or so (porch light at night works great to find them), that will help too. Moths are so full of fats and fluids it will help flush his system.

See Josh's Frogs feedback page on our forum, many customers have had some bad mite issues with them. Hopefully your culture was mite-free, but if it was anything like the one I got from them (and others) it's likely had a mite infestation from the start. Fruit Fly size should have little if anything to do with culture infestation, do you have a link to the article? The mites are only there for the fly food/medium, and infest both Hydei and Melanogaster cultures seemingly the same (and the Turkish Gliders variation too that I had).


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## rhetoriccamel (Jul 4, 2017)

I'm sad to report that Manty has passed away. The other day I took him/her out of the cage for a cleaning and Manty leapt from my fiance arm from about 3.5-4 feet from the ground. I didn't think Manty would suffer from internal injuries since Manty wasn't fresh from a molt. Yesterday Manty was on the top of the cage hanging and was getting very dark in color and wasn't moving. This morning I found Manty nearly lifeless on the bottom of the cage. I attempted honey and water to no success. His/her butt was black, almost looked like there was poop stuck to it and the ends of his/her feet were also black. 

RIP,  Manty, you will be missed and not forgotten. Who would have thought that the loss of a mantis would be so sad? 

(can't upload picture of Manty from the other day on my phone)


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## Teamonger (Jul 4, 2017)

I'm sad to hear that. I have had a similar problem with an adult female surprise jumping from my hand and dying less then two days later. I don't think I'm alone in somehow thinking that insects have some anti gravity induced injury super power but apparently that is not so. I am very careful to take any cages out of the shelf, sit on the floor, and then open them to avoid this in the future.

Again sorry for your loss, they really do tug on your heartstrings.


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## CosbyArt (Jul 6, 2017)

@rhetoriccamel Sorry to hear Manty succumbed to a fall injury.  

A fall onto a hard surface from even 1 foot is enough for some real damage to a mantid (or even shorted falls if onto a sharp object like a stick fork/limb); however, thankfully if it lands on carpet typically a mantid will survive with a broken limb(s) at worse. Sadly the "insect gravity" doesn't apply to them as they have much larger mass/weight than other insects that can fall much higher with no ill-effects. The black coloring you saw was most likely pooled blood as it turns dark when it congeals, and their exoskeleton is semi-translucent too especially with something close to the surface.

The truth for sure on mantid deaths, a pet is still a pet.


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