# Parasites in Iris oratoria



## MantidLord (Oct 21, 2010)

Hello. I found an adult female Iris oratoria today in the morning. I thought she was lethargic but I decided to catch her anyway. So, I put her in a plastic water bottle I keep for wild mantids, and took her to school. During first period, I take her out and see five maggots squirming around the container. Clearly they burst out of her. After a while, they crawled to the top of the container and seemingly pupated. Later at home, another one came out. She's still alive somewhat, obviously about to die, and you can see the bruising on her abdomen. I'm going to attempt to raise this parasite and hopefully infect another mantis to see how this mantis got infected in the first place. Whether it be that she ate an egg, a small instar larvae, was attacked by a large or even small adult fly, or what. I placed the pupae and the maggot in some soil, the maggot immediately began digging in the soil. I'm warming them up just like I warm my ooths. Hopefully they eclose. I took pics of one maggot and the five pupae as well as the mantis. I will post them tomorrow.


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## Seattle79 (Oct 22, 2010)

That happened to me to one of my Stagmomantis limbata's that I captured from Prescott, AZ. I got rid of the parasites. I wished I had kept the parasites to see what it would develop into.

Post pics of the adult parasites. Be nice to see what they look like and how they infect Mantids.

-Kevin


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## LauraMG (Oct 22, 2010)

Very interesting experiment! I'm kinda anxious to see how it turns out!


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## PhilinYuma (Oct 22, 2010)

Here's Rick's mammoth (11pp) thread on this subject: http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=15604&amp;hl=parasitic&amp;st=0

It should answer most of yr questions and, as a bonus, has a post by Superfreak.


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## Ntsees (Oct 22, 2010)

When they come out of the pupae, they might just end up food for the mantids instead (if you put them with a mantid). Also, the female parasites would have to become mated and therefore give them a purpose for finding a host. You're probably going to have to raise the parasites (I'm guessing they are flies) after they come out of their pupae.


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## Rick (Oct 22, 2010)

Thanks for savign me the trouble of finding that thread Phil. I had two cases that were different. One was several maggots while the other was just a single large one.


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## MantidLord (Oct 22, 2010)

I remember Rick's thread. But I don't remember a follow up as to whether anything hatched out or whether or not he kept the pupae. The thread just sorta died. I said it should've been a sticky, so no one would have to find it.

Anyway, I intend on leaving the flies together for a while once or if they eclose, to give them time to mate. There are multiple possibilities as to how the mantis got infected. 1) like I said, ate another organism that had the parasite as either an egg or an early larval stage. 2), a large fly attacked the mantis and laid its eggs on it, 3), A small fly landed unnoticed on a mantis, and laid its eggs, and 4) the mantis caught the fly in somehow the fly laid eggs during the process of being consumed. Either way, I intend on trying all four noted ways of infection in order to replicate what happen. I do hope that the flies do not feed as adults and behave as mayflies do, mating (and infecting hosts) before dying. Time will tell. The maggot is still worming around, while no sign from the pupae.

Also, the host female was found dead today when I got home.

Pupae







Maggot next to pupae (for the record, the maggot was approximately 1 cm in length.











The host






You can see the bruising on her abdomen. The gash is actually one of the segments on the underside of her abdomen.











Will take pics later on with the female. Now that she's dead, it's easier to maneuver to see the gash.

After extensively re-reading the thread, I see that the flies did eclose. What I want to know for sure is how they parasitize the mantids. Even though We have our theories, it would be nice to actually witness... for the sake of science.


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## MantidLord (Oct 22, 2010)

Also phil, because most (if not all) of what was said on that thread was mere speculation, it doesn't really answer my questions.


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## PeterF (Oct 22, 2010)

Diptera, pretty sure of it. Which I guess would make it tachinid?

#3 has my money

"3), A small fly landed unnoticed on a mantis, and laid its eggs,"

I could buy #1 I guess, I don't see 2 or 4 happening.


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## MantidLord (Oct 22, 2010)

I just had another mantis that I caught yesterday afternoon burst with a maggot. When I caught her, she was perfectly normal. Large and jumping away from me as I tried to catch her. This morning. I noticed that she was a little sluggish. And this afternoon, that she had bruising in her abdomen. A couple of hours later, I took her out to take pictures just in case she did have the parasite (as a before pic). As SOON as I put her back into her enclosure, a maggot erupted from her abdomen. It started crawling around her jar, and I immediately grabbed the camera again and began recording in the hopes of catching another maggot escape from her body. I'm in the middle of recording right now. Will post pictures afterwards and then the video if something happens. Right now she is still alive, yet noticeably weak. Before she perished, you could see the maggots moving around in her body, making bulges and discoloration against her already discolored abdomen. Will keep you guys posted.


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## Rick (Oct 23, 2010)

My thread will answer all your questions. I suggest goign back and taking another look. I did keep them and they did hatch. I even made a display out of the dead mantis and the flies. I had two types of fly parasites. The one burst forth with several maggots which turned into small flies. The other from antoher mantis was one large maggot that did not ever hatch.


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## MantidLord (Oct 23, 2010)

I did re-read the post. And if you read my post, I stated that the flies hatched in your thread. HOWEVER. it DOES NOT answer all of my questions, because the methods in which the flies attached to a mantis were mere speculation. You had the flies killed and put on display, but they were never introduced to a mantis to see how the mantis got infected. Flies have multiple ways of infecting different organisms, it would be interesting to see what was used on mantids. Just because the forum may have reached a general consensus on how the fly may have infected the mantis, does not mean that it is fact. No one has proof or evidence to show how a mantis would get infected by parasitoids, therefore there are still questions that were not answered.

In short, all of what was said regarding the flies attaching to the mantids or whatever was like a hypothesis, no experimentation was done whatsoever to prove or disprove those claims. That is what I seek to do. Not merely kill the flies once they eclose.


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## Gill (Oct 24, 2010)

Young, O.P., Parasitism of Stagmomantis carolina (Mantodea: Mantidae) by Masiphya confusa (Diptera: Tachinidae). Annals Entomol. Soc. America 2009,102: 842-846.

Abstract: Field collections and laboratory observations document for the first time nymphal Stagmomantis carolina (Johannson) (Mantodea: Mantidae) as a host of Masiphya confusa Aldrich (Diptera: Tachinidae). In Washington County, MS, field parasitization rates of nymphal mantids in old-field sites exceeded 80% in late summer and were associated with a delay in maturation of parasitized nymphs. Laboratory rearings and dissections indicated that early-stage parasites had entered at the lateral mesothorax and were free-moving in the host thorax, with late-stage larvae attached to the inner wall of the fifth abdominal segment. A sclerotized airhole was present at the attachment site and exit holes for the mature larvae were in the area of the second abdominal segment. When attached, the parasite was encased in a sac and a sclerotized respiratory funnel was formed. After parasite emergence, the host typically died within 24 h, although some host individuals survived for up to 29 d and some individuals fed and partially molted after parasite emergence under ambient conditions. Pupation of parasites under ambient conditions occurred in the soil in September and October, with subsequent emergence in the following May.


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## PhilinYuma (Oct 24, 2010)

Nice first post, Gill! While not demonstrated in Rick's thread, tachinid parasitism of mantids is well known.I suspect that many hobbyists, seeing the ease with which mantids catch flying insects, have trouble visualizing parasitic flies and wasps being able to actually land on a mantis and do their thing. A greater problem seems to be in providing for the helpless eggs of these parasites once they are laid on the mantis. Unlike many insect parasites, like the recently discussed hair worm, whose eggs are laid on plants to be consumed by the host with the plant, their eggs are laid on the outside of the mantis and have to make their way in. The female of at least one parasitic wasp lays her eggs in the oothecal foam before it hardens. The eggs hatch and consume the mantis embryos. Tachinid flies are ovoviviporous and their eggs hatch on being laid so that the larvae can immediately burrow their way into the mantis. I sometimes think that God must have been in a particularly foul mood when he designed such slow forms of death for part of His creation.


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## MantidLord (Oct 24, 2010)

Thank you for the post Gill. If you have any other information, please feel welcome to post it.

Phil, I can imagine a fly landing on a mantis, whether it's an adult, nymph, molting, etc. I would just like to observe and see what happens. Also, I've only seen parasitism in this species (in Nevada) which are extremely invasive and possibly contribute to the lower population of L. minor. I would like to see if the parasites affect _L. minor_ individuals. If not, than this can be seen as a form of biological pest control. I know that native insects such as _Stagmomantis sp_. get parasitized, however the maggots in Rick's thread seemed to be a different species.

Also, does anyone have any information regarding whether or not the flies *need* to diapause for that long? Do they do it because it is cold (like say _Tenodera sp_.) or because it's cold and a requirement (such as the, at least North American, _Mantis religiosa_)?


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## Rick (Oct 25, 2010)

MantidLord said:


> I did re-read the post. And if you read my post, I stated that the flies hatched in your thread. HOWEVER. it DOES NOT answer all of my questions, because the methods in which the flies attached to a mantis were mere speculation. You had the flies killed and put on display, but they were never introduced to a mantis to see how the mantis got infected. Flies have multiple ways of infecting different organisms, it would be interesting to see what was used on mantids. Just because the forum may have reached a general consensus on how the fly may have infected the mantis, does not mean that it is fact. No one has proof or evidence to show how a mantis would get infected by parasitoids, therefore there are still questions that were not answered.
> 
> In short, all of what was said regarding the flies attaching to the mantids or whatever was like a hypothesis, no experimentation was done whatsoever to prove or disprove those claims. That is what I seek to do. Not merely kill the flies once they eclose.


While the question may not have been answered there to your satisfaction, the question of how these mantids become infected is already known. Someone a couple posts up posted up some information on that topic. Yes, I killed the flies because at the time I had no mantids I wanted to try and infect. I'm curious to see how you are going to prevent the mantids from eating the flies in a captive environment.


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## MantidLord (Oct 25, 2010)

Oh I meant no disrespect at all Rick as to what I said, I just am very curious as to documenting how in fact the mantids become infected. As we've already established, there are multiple ways the mantis can get infected. As to your question regarding the feeding, if I am using adult mantids (or mantids at a stage that are larger than the flies, then I will try multiple ways of "preventing" the mantids from eating the flies. One way, which is quite simple, have a well fed mantis. Satiated mantids tend to be less active and less likely to care (in my experience) about annoying little insects. Second, the mantis can be in the middle of laying an ooth. It can be in the middle of molting, or even mating. Even adult mantids are vulnerable at times. Another, more indirect way, is to introduce a fly with a cricket or other mantis food item. See if the cricket gets infected, and feed to the mantis to see if it gets passed on. Also, depending on the size of the flies, they may be too large for L. minor adults. That would indeed be interesting to see if the ground mantids become hosts or not.

Again, I'm not trying to bash anyone, just trying to explain my purpose for doing this. And please, if anyone sees any flaws in my planning, please don't hesitate to ask. Oh, and I was able to film a maggot bursting out of that mantis I spoke of a few posts back. I could see the maggots moving around in side her, and after taking pictures, a maggot burst out of her. I then grabbed the camera again and began recording, then a second maggot burst out. I need some help uploading the video, if anyone has any advice on that, please let me know.

And of course, sexing the flies will be a pain. Thanks.


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## Rick (Oct 26, 2010)

MantidLord said:


> Oh I meant no disrespect at all Rick as to what I said, I just am very curious as to documenting how in fact the mantids become infected. As we've already established, there are multiple ways the mantis can get infected. As to your question regarding the feeding, if I am using adult mantids (or mantids at a stage that are larger than the flies, then I will try multiple ways of "preventing" the mantids from eating the flies. One way, which is quite simple, have a well fed mantis. Satiated mantids tend to be less active and less likely to care (in my experience) about annoying little insects. Second, the mantis can be in the middle of laying an ooth. It can be in the middle of molting, or even mating. Even adult mantids are vulnerable at times. Another, more indirect way, is to introduce a fly with a cricket or other mantis food item. See if the cricket gets infected, and feed to the mantis to see if it gets passed on. Also, depending on the size of the flies, they may be too large for L. minor adults. That would indeed be interesting to see if the ground mantids become hosts or not.
> 
> Again, I'm not trying to bash anyone, just trying to explain my purpose for doing this. And please, if anyone sees any flaws in my planning, please don't hesitate to ask. Oh, and I was able to film a maggot bursting out of that mantis I spoke of a few posts back. I could see the maggots moving around in side her, and after taking pictures, a maggot burst out of her. I then grabbed the camera again and began recording, then a second maggot burst out. I need some help uploading the video, if anyone has any advice on that, please let me know.
> 
> And of course, sexing the flies will be a pain. Thanks.


I say this all the time; well fed mantis is no guarantee that it will not make a meal out of something else. Many assume this when it comes to trying to prevent eating the male during mating. You may have to go as far as tying the front legs together or something. I have only seen nymphs with parasites so that may be a factor too if you're using adults.

I suspect that the host is specific to the parasite though. You should be able to upload the vid to photobucket or one of those other similar sights.


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## Ntsees (Oct 26, 2010)

Rick said:


> ...You may have to go as far as tying the front legs together or something....


Hahaha, I was going to suggest that method too because it's the only method I can think of that'll help prevent the flies from being eaten.


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## mantisboy (Oct 26, 2010)

http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/course/ent425/compendium/streps~1.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strepsiptera


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## Ntsees (Oct 26, 2010)

idahomantid said:


> http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/course/ent425/compendium/streps~1.html
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strepsiptera


It could be possible. The last time I was looking for Strepsiterans (unsuccessful) was when I was doing my insect collection project. I recall they were small, but some could be large too.


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## PhilinYuma (Oct 26, 2010)

Mantidlord: My only objection to your post was that you appeared to believe that tachinid fly parasitism was "hypothetical". I think that it is great that you are prepared to do the experiment and look forward to reading your results. My own guess is that the fly approaches the mantis from behind and is in very little danger of being eaten. I would suggest simply setting up your target mantids and the flies in a 12" cube, which will give the flies plenty of room to maneuver, and let them do their thing. I suspect that they will be able to sex each other quite readily. Good luck!

Idahomantid. I'm not sure that Strepsiptera parasitize mantids, though it is possible. I was thinking of the chalcid wasps (Torymidae) such as Podigrion sp [e.g. mantis].:

http://www.ozanimals.com/Insect/Mantis-Parasitic-Wasp/Podagrion%20/sp.html

and http://www.sel.barc.usda.gov/hym/chalcids/collecting/Tricho_Torym.html

These wasps, of course, parasitize the eggs and not the nymphs. The eggs die inside the ooth.The accidental importation and release of parasites such as these is one of the reasons that the Feds ban the importation of ooths.


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## mantisboy (Oct 26, 2010)

Phil I really don't know much about this other than looking up Mantid Parasites on Google and what I read on Wiki. I generally never use Wiki to reference anything, but it was there so I posted a link.

From what I gathered there 4 families and 109 species of these bugs in North America. If the maggots never pupate (msp?), then perhaps they are actually the adult females of the species. It does note a discolored patch on the female maggot-like body. I was trying to find out how long the female is, but I couldn't find it. It does explain how they enter a mantis and exit which seems to fall within reason of what was described. I guess only time will tell.

http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/course/ent425/compendium/streps~1.html

If you scroll down a little bit it show an illustration....kinda looks like the pic...but then again all maggots kinda look alike.


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## mantisboy (Oct 26, 2010)

delete


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## PhilinYuma (Oct 26, 2010)

Well, I learned something new, Idaho. I am familiar with strepisterans only from reading about them, and I had not heard of them infesting mantids. But if they emerged from the mantis, they are are almost certainly are not rare strepisterans, but common tachinid flies.Male strepisterans pupate while still partially inside the mantis. The females provide the third example of the pharate phase that has come up recently on this forum. A few weeks ago, I mentioned that the female bag moth matures sexually as a pharate pupa, and here we see the same thing, with the female maturing sexually in larval form, partly inside the host.

The triungulin is another interesting critter much loved by entomologists. They have six "true" legs, biting jaws and can move around much like a small adult beetle. They are the larvae of parasites, and this highly motile first instar lets them climb onto and around their host and eat their way through its cuticle. Long ago, I was taught that triungulins without claws like those of strepisterans, are properly called planidia, but now the terms appear to be interchangeable.

Isn't this stuff great!


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## MantidLord (Oct 30, 2010)

Sorry for the long delay. Anyway, here is video of the maggot exiting the mantis. Not for the squeamish. It's kind of low quality, so I apologize for it, and the maggot exits near the end of the video, just so you know.

Note, The mantis is still alive, but barely as a maggot had already burst out of her abdomen a couple of minutes earlier. It may look like I'm squeezing her, but I'm really not, I was just trying to get the maggot to move, as I could see it moving in side of her but it couldn't be captured by camera. Again, I apologize for the low quality. Enjoy.





So far, nothing from the pupae. I'm starting to think that they may require a diapause in order to eclose, as opposed to just hatching into flies with no cold period. Only time will tell I guess. I appreciate all the links and information being provided by the way.

Phil, I do not believe that tachnid fly parasitism is hypothetical, merely the many methods of infection listed on this forum. Though true it could be all or none of them, I just want to test it out to find concrete evidence of (at least) one way a mantis is infected with parasites. I know tachnids will infect other arthropods, so nothing's stopping them from infecting a mantis.

Rick, I'm curious as to why you think the fly is host specific?

If that link doesn't work: http://s679.photobucket.com/albums/vv158/MantidLord/?action=view&amp;current=DSCN1171.mp4


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## Rick (Nov 1, 2010)

The pupae I had did not require a diapause. They eclosed after a few weeks.


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## MantidLord (Nov 25, 2010)

Hello, long time no update. The pupae id eclose from the second mantis infected with parasites, however the ones from the first mantis did not. However, when the flies did hatch, I only had one mantis left, and she was on her way out. So I took pictures of them,to be uploaded soon. The flies are now dead, lasting about 3-4 days, however they didn't have food (I've read somewhere that adults feed on nectar). What's really ironic, is that two days after the flies died, I found a female mantis, and the next day, another one. The first mantis however, was also infected and the maggots burst out of her anus, rather than the side of her abdomen as in the previous cases. The second mantis I caught is still alive and fat. Though I've had her for about a week now and never fed her. She was fat when I caught her, and still fat now, so I'm waiting to see if she slims out or lays an ooth or if she is infected. Earlier this week another mantis was caught, and it too was infected with parasites. So in total, I've personally had four cases of wild mantids having parasites, and have seen two wild mantids exhibiting the same symptoms as my infected ones. Will keep you updated. Oh, and the flies that hatched were a little smaller than house flies, with red markings. But I'll post pics anyway.


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