# So disappointed



## lovemymantisfriends (Jun 29, 2018)

I had posted on Monday that I had finally heard from the breeder I had ordered from on May 29th was shipping and I will receive my order this week.  So everyday, I have watched the clock and waited by the window for the mail to arrive.  I have also obsessively checked my email for any tracking information.   The breeder has it in their policy that they only ship Monday-Wednesday, so I waited until Thursday to ask about tracking information or an update on my order (no response).   Now I am really worried.  Tomorrow's heat index is supposed to be as high as 113 degrees and there is a block party so our street will be blocked off.  I talked to the mailman and he said that if he remembers, he will try to deliver to our street earlier (no guarantees).  Meanwhile, it is super hot today also.  I am fearful they are going to arrive DOA.  The breeder's other policy is that they wont ship if there is excessive heat.  The forecast has shown excessive heat for Friday and Saturday all week.  

Just beyond disappointed they aren't here yet.


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## Synapze (Jun 29, 2018)

30 days since you placed your order?? How many emails have you sent them, and how many times have they responded?


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## Mantis Lady (Jun 29, 2018)

Did they give you track and trace? I would be worried too with extreme heat coming. :S


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jun 29, 2018)

Synapze said:


> 30 days since you placed your order?? How many emails have you sent them, and how many times have they responded?


I have emailed 2x and PM'd facebook 1x a week after placing the order.  I finally received an email back on Monday of this week saying that my order was being processed and I will receive them this week.  I emailed again regarding tracking (since I hadn't received anything other than the initial email stating my order was being processed).  I have not heard back.  

So, I guess all in all probably 3-4 emails and 1 fb private message to them and 1 response from them.


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jun 29, 2018)

Little Mantis said:


> Did they give you track and trace? I would be worried too with extreme heat coming. :S


I emailed yesterday, since I know they only ship Monday-Wednesday, to see if they had tracking information for me.  I have not received a response yet.


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jun 29, 2018)

Dang it!  To make matters worse (if by some miracle they were not shipped this week and arriving DOA), they do not ship on holiday weeks...NEXT WEEK IS A HOLIDAY WEEK... ?


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## Synapze (Jun 29, 2018)

lovemymantisfriends said:


> Dang it!  To make matters worse (if by some miracle they were not shipped this week and arriving DOA), they do not ship on holiday weeks...NEXT WEEK IS A HOLIDAY WEEK... ?


I'm crossing my fingers for you hoping you receive them tomorrow! There could many legitimate reasons for the delay of an order. Give your spam folder a quick check to make sure no messages from the breeder were misidentified as spam... it happens. Failure to communicate, especially when there is a delay for any reason, is a deal breaker for me.  Period. You have a right to be angry!

Hope you get them tomorrow! If you don't and and receive no response by end of business Monday... I'd file a PayPal dispute or contact your credit card company and dispute the charges... if I were you. 

Good luck! ?


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## Mantis Lady (Jun 29, 2018)

Synapze said:


> I'm crossing my fingers for you hoping you receive them tomorrow! There could many legitimate reasons for the delay of an order.


@lovemymantisfriendsI hope your mantids will arrive safely .*Crossing my fingers too.*

If you don't get them and no response, give a feedback in de feedback section about this breeder. Then we know where not to buy mantids


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## PowerHobo (Jun 29, 2018)

Fellow dweller of hellish heats here. If you do manage to get a tracking number from them and they shipped USPS you should be able to stop it at the post office for pickup. It's an extra hassle, but I promise it's a *lot* cooler in the back of the post office than it is on those trucks, and if your delivery worker is anything like mine your mantid may be on that truck for *hours* on delivery day.

I lost one shipment of inverts to the heat here. Since then I stop all deliveries at the post office and haven't lost one in shipping.


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## MantisGirl13 (Jun 30, 2018)

Who did you order from? I am praying that they arrive safely today!

- MantisGirl13


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## Synapze (Jun 30, 2018)

Did your delivery come in?


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## MantisGirl13 (Jul 1, 2018)

Synapze said:


> Did your delivery come in?


Yeah, how did it go?

- MantisGirl13


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jul 1, 2018)

Synapze said:


> Did your delivery come﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿ in?﻿


It did not.  I emailed and they said they are still processing and shipping orders.  I can expect tracking info soon.  Meanwhile, it is still expected to be hot and a holiday week- neither of which conditions they claim to ship during. 

Still waiting


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jul 1, 2018)

In other news, one of my ghosts molted again!


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## MantisGirl13 (Jul 2, 2018)

I am so sorry about your order! I hope it comes soon! I had a ghost molt too! It was a male, and he molted to adult, a couple weeks AHEAD of my females! Hopefully he will stay alive long enough so I can mate my females when they are adult!

- MantisGirl13


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## Synapze (Jul 2, 2018)

lovemymantisfriends said:


> It did not.  I emailed and they said they are still processing and shipping orders.  I can expect tracking info soon.


Please be careful. Don't let them drag out the transaction too long or you'll risk losing any potential refund. This unnamed (that's for the feedback section) breeder has a reputation for being unable/unwilling to ship orders promptly. He prints the mailing label on the day orders are placed, making them show up in USPS tracking, but the  shipment may or may not go out at all. If you're signed up with USPS, you'll be able to see all shipping labels printed with your address. The USPS message you'll receive with this breeder is usually, "Label printed. Awaiting pickup by carrier", or something to that effect. I received the same message for almost a month, before I cancelled and disputed the charges. PayPal refunded my money.

In my opinion, not an accusation just a suspicion, this particular breeder is selling stock before he actually has it in hand.

My suggestion: Cancel this order and immediately file a PayPal claim. But.. that's just me. 

That all being said... it may all work out for you. Good luck!


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 2, 2018)

Very good suggestions @Synapze 

Paypal allows refunds up to 6 months with their buyer protection guarantee but there's no reason to wait that long. Unless the breeder has a specific disclaimer on their website stating that orders may take over a month to process they will likely side with you....that's if you used PayPal. The time a credit card company allows for disputes varies so if you have to go that route to get a refund I would check on the specific policy for your card. 

Before filing the dispute you may want to give them one last chance to fill the order. Sometimes it takes kicking them in the pants to get them moving. Email and explain you will be filing a dispute if you don't get a timely response (3 business days is more than reasonable) with either a refund or a specific shipping date &amp; working tracking number. If they respond and that date comes and goes without receiving the tracking number or if the tracking number doesn't update past "Awaiting pickup by carrier" then go ahead and file the claim.

Or you can just skip all that hassle and file the claim, waiting a month for an order is excessive regardless of their vague promises to ship "soon."


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 2, 2018)

lovemymantisfriends said:


> In other news, one of my ghosts molted again!


Gratz on the molt.

but about your order: I would do like the others sugested. it is taking too long and order your mantis somewhere else  and post about this breeder in the breeder section so we know where NOT to order from.



MantisGirl13 said:


> I had a ghost molt too! It was a male, and he molted to adult, a couple weeks AHEAD of my females!


gratz on the molt too


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jul 2, 2018)

Predatorhousepet said:


> Before filing the dispute you may want to give them one last chance to fill the order. Sometimes it takes kicking them in the pants to get them moving. Email and explain you will be filing a dispute if you don't get a timely response (3 business days is more than reasonable) with either a refund or a specific shipping date &amp; working tracking number. If they respond and that date comes and goes without receiving the tracking number or if the tracking number doesn't update past "Awaiting pickup by carrier" then go ahead and file the claim.


Here is their terms of use:

[SIZE=10.5pt]I need you to agree that you will allow me to do what's best for your insects and trust that I will get them to you alive, without complaint!  If shipping is delayed you will have to bare through it... I'm a reasonable guy and I will do all I can to provide the best service.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]

*Shipping Schedule*

All Orders Ship Monday-Wednesday, to avoid DOA during travel.

[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]

*Shipping Delays may include as follows:*

[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]1.    [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]If an animal is about to molt or shed, it will not leave until it does plus two days to recover.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]2.    [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Some mantids may be presold (back ordered) they will not ship until L2 stage.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]3.    [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Unacceptable weather conditions or temperature in either location[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]4.    [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Large volume of customer orders (first come first serve)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]5.    [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Holidays[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]If you decide you do not want to wait anymore, you will be charged room and board for animals that would have been sold otherwise.  A 20% charge not including shipping or tax will be deducted from your refund.  You will also be banned for life from reorder.  I will add that you will be refunded with the deduction of 20% if you send excessive emails and decide to cause problems for us (We simply don’t have time to waste on impatient and insubordinate people) If by chance you ignore any of these terms and conditions we reserve the right to refuse service at any time.  In this situation money will be refunded within (7) days.  We are not responsible for this hold[/SIZE]


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## Synapze (Jul 2, 2018)

They do make a couple of legit points, but it's the lack of post-sale communication that is the most frustrating.

If they're "pre-selling" goods they need to point out which species they have ready for sale and which will be delayed for legit reasons. It's a simple matter of updating a few lines on a website. That's not too much to ask.

Personally, I believe the last paragraph practically screams, "I don't really care and I don't need your business!" Dump them. There are so many dealers/breeders in this forum alone who value their customers and would be happy to serve you. They may not always have the species you want available at the time, but better wait for a healthy mantis from someone who cares rather than someone who feels they are doing you a favor. 

My opinion and I'm sticking to it. ?


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## crabbypatty (Jul 2, 2018)

I know who this seller is, I would never buy or recommend buying from them. Try to get your money back asap, file a PayPal claim. There are excellent sellers out there, make sure to research very well before buying from anyone. Facebook mantis groups are less restrictive about discussions regarding sellers, you can ask for recommendations. Check the feedback on here too. Good luck ??.


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jul 2, 2018)

Synapze said:


> Personally, I believe the last paragraph practically screams, "I don't really care and I don't need your business!" Dump them. There are far too many dealers/breeders in this forum alone who value their customers and would be happy to serve you. They may not always have the species you want available at the time, but better wait for a healthy mantis from someone who cares rather than someone who feels they are doing you a favor.


Along with not finding this forum until after i purchased them, I also did not read the terms of use until after the purchase.  My fault I suppose.  I am still waiting them out bc I do want the ones I ordered.....hoping he lives up to the "i'm a reasonable guy" and would actually eventually send the order.


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## crabbypatty (Jul 2, 2018)

@lovemymantisfriends Sadly, the mantids I ordered from this person arrived dead ?. I made the same mistake as you, I didn't do my research, I waited almost two months, and I got my package without a tracking number. I did this as a new mantis keeper, I was pretty devastated. I would highly recommend trying to get your money back asap. Reputable sellers contact you right away ?.


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jul 2, 2018)

crabbypatty said:


> Sadly, the mantids I ordered from this person arrived dead ?. I made the same mistake as you, I didn't do my research, I waited almost two months, and I got my package without﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿ a tracking number. I did this as a new mantis keeper, I was pretty devastated. I would highly recommend trying to get your money back asap. Reputable sellers contac﻿t you right away ?. ﻿


Sorry to hear that! What came of it?  Did they replace...respond to you at all?


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 2, 2018)

crabbypatty said:


> @lovemymantisfriends Sadly, the mantids I ordered from this person arrived dead ?. I made the same mistake as you, I didn't do my research, I waited almost two months, and I got my package without a tracking number. I did this as a new mantis keeper, I was pretty devastated. I would highly recommend trying to get your money back asap. Reputable sellers contact you right away ?.


Two months to fill an order? That's nonsense.

If they were preselling they should inform you that your order is going to be delayed for that reason and let you decide if you want to wait or not...not make you wait first until you get worried &amp; when you want a refund charge 20% and make you feel like it's your fault. They could solve the whole issue by simply taking pre-orders advertised as pre-orders, letting the person know well in advance that a particular species won't be shipping until at least X date.



lovemymantisfriends said:


> Along with not finding this forum until after i purchased them, I also did not read the terms of use until after the purchase.  My fault I suppose.  I am still waiting them out bc I do want the ones I ordered.....hoping he lives up to the "i'm a reasonable guy" and would actually eventually send the order.


I know you didn't find the disclaimer right away...how easy is it to find?

I definitely wouldn't buy from someone who had those disclaimers on their website. While I agree that sometimes people who order can have unreasonable expectations, this is NOT the norm. Most people just want to be informed what is happening &amp; when and are usually pretty agreeable. Spelling out terms is fine but there is no reason to address potential customers as if they are all idiots or troublemakers. That disclaimer just sounds so...arrogant. 

I believe PayPal will probably take your side anyway if you explain the lack of communication, vague promises to ship "soon" and basically what is a threat to take 20% off your refund if you "bother" him too much.


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## crabbypatty (Jul 2, 2018)

@Predatorhousepet @lovemymantisfriends I filed a claim with PayPal soon after the arrival but he claimed I had received my items and PayPal sided with him. Later I found tons of angry customers on his Facebook store site but he deleted and blocked people for negative feedback. He's been banned from several mantis groups too. He isn't known to be very kind to his customers. Sadly it's a mistake many new keepers make and it'll keep happening unfortunately. I googled "mantids for sale" and his site came up first.


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## River Dane (Jul 3, 2018)

I personally agree with what everyone else has said, this man doesn’t deserve your business and it might be a good idea to try and for. The first sentence of the terms alone raises many red flags, and the lifelong ban seems redundant since I doubt anyone would buy from him twice anyway.

I’m sorry about your awful experience, but definitely leave your review here and help prevent more people falling for this trap! It might not be a completely lost cause, though. He could come through if you’re lucky.


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 3, 2018)

@crabbypatty Unfortunately when there is a tracking number that shows the package as delivered PayPal will almost always side with the seller even if you didn't get what you ordered. There are some sellers on eBay who have found a way to take advantage of this loophole to scam people. They will take an order for an expensive item but ship literal trash or some other worthless item in it's place so there is a tracking number showing a successful delivery and they get to keep the money. Luckily both eBay &amp; PayPal are now aware of the scam so a seller only gets so many chances to pull this...if it becomes a trend they start to catch on.

In his disclaimer he does promise to get your mantises to you alive so them arriving DOA and not being replaced is a breach of that promise. He shouldn't get to keep your money if you didn't get what you ordered but unfortunately things don't always work out fairly. I'm sorry that happened to you.

@lovemymantisfriends

Maybe you should attempt to get the refund from PayPal before the order is shipped but probably once you do the guy is not going to be cooperative if you have to work something out with him. It's a tough choice but I'm guessing you might eventually get your order if you wait it out...it just may take one or more additional months for that to happen.

It is unfortunate that so many new people come across his site first when looking to buy a mantis. It doesn't look like he paid for that #1 spot in the search so he got there the old fashioned way...with good meta tags and multiple search engine submissions, traffic probably keeps him there. The good news is that it is possible to make a website that could eventually take his website's place, maybe a site that posts reviews of various sellers along with any disclaimers or terms they have and include links to the breeder reviews in this forum. This wouldn't prevent everyone from doing business with him but making that information more accessible would surely help people to at least know what they might be getting into should they decide to. It would also help people find this forum faster.


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jul 5, 2018)

Predatorhousepet said:


> crabbypatty Unfortunately when there is a tracking number that shows the package as delivered PayPal will almost always side with the seller even if you didn't get what you ordered. There are some sellers on eBay who have found a way to take advantage of this loophole to scam people. They will take an order for an expensive item but ship literal trash or some other worthless item in it's place so there is a tracking number showing a successful delivery and they get to keep the money. Luckily both eBay &amp; PayPal are now aware of the scam so a seller only gets so many chances to pull this...if it becomes a trend they start to catch on.


I wonder what would happen if you made a claim with your credit card instead of paypal.


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jul 5, 2018)

Still waiting.  Received an email 4 days ago that I can expect tracking information soon.  Still no tracking information.....


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 5, 2018)

This is really sad that you still don't have your Mantids  Still thiks he is lying to you.


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## MantisGirl13 (Jul 5, 2018)

Little Mantis said:


> This is really sad that you still don't have your Mantids  Still thiks he is lying to you.


I am so sorry that you ha a bad experience. Who is this seller?

- MantisGirl13


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 5, 2018)

MantisGirl13 said:


> I am so sorry that you ha a bad experience. Who is this seller?
> 
> - MantisGirl13


The seller comes up first (after an Amazon ad) if you google "praying mantis for sale"...this is why so many new people stumble across him. His website is professional looking and uses all sorts of little marketing tricks to help reassure people this is a good place to buy from. 

I am seriously considering making that seller review website I talked about earlier. I don't know if I can get it to the #1 spot in the search but I can try.


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## MantisGirl13 (Jul 6, 2018)

What is the site called? I don't know what I'm looking for... I just want to know so I can avoid him in the future.
- MantisGirl13


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 6, 2018)

MantisGirl13 said:


> What is the site called? I don't know what I'm looking for... I just want to know so I can avoid him in the future.
> - MantisGirl13


Me too. I did a search too. I think it is important that we know to avoid this seller.


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## Synapze (Jul 6, 2018)

Predatorhousepet said:


> I am seriously considering making that seller review website I talked about earlier. I don't know if I can get it to the #1 spot in the search but I can try.


I hope you can and I'm willing to help if needed.

I've read so many bad reviews left by people who simply became discouraged and some who just gave up out of frustration. Unfortunately, being #1 in search results gives many the impression that the 1st listing is the best and most relevant to their search.

I really hate seeing people new to mantids have such difficulties in acquiring their first specimen. I refuse to beg anyone for good customer service. I keep getting a little bit angry for what @lovemymantisfriends is being put through. ?


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 6, 2018)

Synapze said:


> I really hate seeing people new to mantids have such difficulties in acquiring their first specimen. I refuse to beg anyone for good customer service. I keep getting a little bit angry for what @lovemymantisfriends is being put through. ?


I feel the same: If you buy something the seller need to send what you bought. period. This is no fun at all. empty promisses and weeks go by and getting nothing.


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## Synapze (Jul 6, 2018)

@Little Mantis Agreed! 

Ugh... I need to leave this thread before I get in trouble with the moderators. ?


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## Kermit (Jul 6, 2018)

The suspected breeder has a long rap sheet of more of the same.

What species are you after?

?


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 7, 2018)

Synapze said:


> I hope you can and I'm willing to help if needed.
> 
> I've read so many bad reviews left by people who simply became discouraged and some who just gave up out of frustration. Unfortunately, being #1 in search results gives many the impression that the 1st listing is the best and most relevant to their search.
> 
> I really hate seeing people new to mantids have such difficulties in acquiring their first specimen. I refuse to beg anyone for good customer service. I keep getting a little bit angry for what @lovemymantisfriends is being put through. ?


Thanks I'll keep that in mind. I'm currently looking at website hosts and review software to see if can be done for free or very little money. You're right, it shouldn't be that hard for a beginner to acquire their first specimen and I hate the thought they might just give up on the hobby entirely because of a bad experience with that seller. Besides people believing that #1 in search is best they also think the most professional and fancy website also equals the best service when this simply isn't the case. People do look at reviews before buying any other thing, and there are review and complaint sites for every other online business....there should be the same for mantis seller websites. But for people that don't think to read reviews first that is why trying to get up there in the search is important.


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## danl82 (Jul 7, 2018)

I hate these kind of poor selling practices, preselling stuff before you actually have it (given these are living creatures and they may not hatch or survive etc). Then basically writing your customers off as trouble makers if they dare to ask where their order is. I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience. 

I'm assuming this is an american seller? Luckily here in the uk I've never had a problem and the few dealers I've come across have been great.


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jul 7, 2018)

danl82 said:


> I'm assuming this is an american seller? Luckily here in the uk I've never had a problem and the few dealers I've come across have been great.


Yes, it is a US seller.  



Predatorhousepet said:


> The seller comes up first (after an Amazon ad) if you google "praying mantis for sale"...this is why so many new people stumble across him. His website is professional looking and uses all sorts of little marketing tricks to help reassure people this is a good place to buy from.


Here are the reviews on this forum:


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jul 7, 2018)

I did wind up ordering a couple mantids from someone who posted on a Facebook page.  She said she would ship them Monday.  It looks like she has good reviews.  I am getting a sub adult giant shield female, a sub adult golden female.  She also said she would throw in a couple Giant rainforest that she said just hatched.


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 7, 2018)

@lovemymantisfriends  I hope that goes well for you and you finally get to enjoy some new mantis friends.


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jul 7, 2018)

Predatorhousepet said:


> I hope that goes well for you and you finally get to enjoy some new mantis friends.


Thanks!

Really hoping they arrive this week, safe and sound!


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 7, 2018)

lovemymantisfriends said:


> Yes, it is a US seller.


He is very active lately on youtube. Don't get it why he is isn't fair to costumers. It was because some of his (and others) vids I decided to buy a mantis.



lovemymantisfriends said:


> I did wind up ordering a couple mantids from someone who posted on a Facebook page.  She said she would ship them Monday.  It looks like she has good reviews.  I am getting a sub adult giant shield female, a sub adult golden female.  She also said she would throw in a couple Giant rainforest that she said just hatched.


I  hope your mantids will arrive soon    keep us updated.


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jul 7, 2018)

Little Mantis said:


> He is very active lately on youtube. Don't get it why he is isn't fair to costumers. It was because some of his (and others) vids I decided to buy a mantis.


same here!  

I will certainly keep everyone updated on my newest order (also still havent cancelled the other order, kinda want to see how it pans out)


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## MantisGirl13 (Jul 7, 2018)

I am glad that you found someone hopefully more trusted. Keep us updated!

- MantisGirl13


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jul 10, 2018)

Well, my newest order is supposed to arrive tomorrow.  Still no word on my original order from May.  The seller states that there is a 20% restocking fee/room and board fee that will be taken from your refund.  Will Paypal honor that policy or refund my whole amount?  Anyone know?


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## Synapze (Jul 10, 2018)

lovemymantisfriends said:


> Will Paypal honor that policy or refund my whole amount?  Anyone know?


PayPal refunded me in full. I stressed the lack of communication in my complaint.

The 20% restocking fee for something that isn't a custom item and hasn't even been shipped is unenforceable and unethical, not to mention ridiculous. I mentioned this policy to PayPal as well. 

After you file your complaint, head over to www.bbb.org and file a complaint. It will only take a couple of minutes and may spare someone else the same frustration you've been put through. 

Anyway, I'm glad you have a mantis on the way. ?


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 10, 2018)

lovemymantisfriends said:


> Well, my newest order is supposed to arrive tomorrow.  Still no word on my original order from May.  The seller states that there is a 20% restocking fee/room and board fee that will be taken from your refund.  Will Paypal honor that policy or refund my whole amount?  Anyone know?


They will refund the entire amount you paid, you didn't get anything in return for your money and the seller hasn't shipped the order. His "restocking fee" doesn't even follow the commonly accepted definition. Typically a "restocking fee" is charged by a seller when they ship you something but you returned it for a reason that is not the fault of the seller. It is to discourage frivolous/repeated returns. It is not supposed to be used to discourage people from seeking a refund when their order is several months late. That is just weird and yes, unethical.

PayPal will not honor whatever weird policies the seller has in their terms, PayPal adheres solely to Paypal's own policies which the seller must agree to in order to use the service. Sometimes PayPal will ask you to try to work something out with the seller first but as @Synapze said just stress the lack of communication and their vague promises to ship that went unfulfilled when they did bother to reply.


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jul 11, 2018)

They arrived!!!


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## MantisGirl13 (Jul 12, 2018)

Ooh! So pretty! Are they Sphodromantis? My S. Gastrica gal molted to adult last night.

- MantisGirl13


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## Synapze (Jul 12, 2018)

? Pretty! What instar?


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 12, 2018)

oh, they are pretty finally you got your mantids you wanted.  have fun with them?


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jul 12, 2018)

MantisGirl13 said:


> Ooh! So pretty! Are they Sphodromantis?


Thanks!  They are Rhombodera Megaera. 



Synapze said:


> Pretty! What instar?


Sub Adult females.   

I also received 1 sub adult Golden Heirodula, 2 L3 Budwings, and 1 L1 Giant Rainforest.


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## MantisGirl13 (Jul 12, 2018)

Nice! They sure are pretty!

- MantisGirl 13


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 12, 2018)

These are from the second breeder or the original one that kept giving you the run around?


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## danl82 (Jul 12, 2018)

Subadult? Think I can see wingbuds. Very nice, glad you finally got them.


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## lovemymantisfriends (Jul 12, 2018)

Predatorhousepet said:


> These are from the second breeder or the original one that kept giving you the run around?


These are from Samantha Sanders.  I ordered these last week.   I have filed a claim with paypal for the first order (from May)


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 12, 2018)

lovemymantisfriends said:


> I have filed a claim with paypal for the first order (from May)


Good you did that? Not giving you your wanted mantids is not getting money.


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 12, 2018)

lovemymantisfriends said:


> These are from Samantha Sanders.  I ordered these last week.   I have filed a claim with paypal for the first order (from May)


Ok, I just wanted to be clear where they came from. I am glad you were finally able to find a reliable breeder to help you out. They are beautiful specimens! 

Good luck with the claim, hopefully PayPal sides with you. I don't see why they wouldn't, you never received the order and the seller has had significant time to fill it but hasn't explained why it's so late. 

Obviously you can see the difference in the time frame a good seller ships vs a bad one. Longer than a week is only acceptable when there is a high level communication with specific valid reasons for the delay. When all you get are a couple of vague unfulfilled promises in two months that's getting into scam territory, you are perfectly justified in asking for your money back.


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## The Dude1 (Jul 14, 2018)

I'm thankful for this post! I was literally minutes away from purchasing my mantids from this person. Wish I could find the person I bought from years ago. Less than $10 each I believe


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## Mantis Lady (Jul 14, 2018)

Then this topic did its job: warning other people.


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 14, 2018)

The Dude1 said:


> I'm thankful for this post! I was literally minutes away from purchasing my mantids from this person. Wish I could find the person I bought from years ago. Less than $10 each I believe


It depends on the species but there are a couple of sellers that have a few praying mantises for $10 or under.  Try MantidKingdom.com and Mantidsgalore.com


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## MantisGirl13 (Jul 15, 2018)

The Dude1 said:


> I'm thankful for this post! I was literally minutes away from purchasing my mantids from this person. Wish I could find the person I bought from years ago. Less than $10 each I believe


I am very glad that you saw this post! DON"T BUY FROM HIM!!!!! I agree with Predatorhousepet when she says that MantidKingdom.com and MantidsGalore.com have great low prices. Let us know who you end up buying from! What species are you looking for?

- MantisGirl13


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## Synapze (Jul 15, 2018)

The Dude1 said:


> I'm thankful for this post! I was literally minutes away from purchasing my mantids from this person. Wish I could find the person I bought from years ago. Less than $10 each I believe


Dude, you were spared from a terrible experience. 

I've seen severally species ranging from 9$-10$ just this morning. Ghosts, Budwings and more on the sites that @Predatorhousepet suggested.

Good luck and many of us would like to know what you get.


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## mantidmomma (Jul 25, 2018)

The Dude1 said:


> I'm thankful for this post! I was literally minutes away from purchasing my mantids from this person. Wish I could find the person I bought from years ago. Less than $10 each I believe


I didn't see this post until AFTER I ordered.     However, I filed with PayPal and now the wait begins.  Here is my story with this seller......

Seller posted in a FB group (he is an admin), that he had a $5 4th of July sale on Twig mantis (Pop spurca) and Golden Red armed mantis (Heirodula venosa).  My youngest loves the look of the Golden Red armed mantis so we ordered 8 of them. I contacted him immediately on FB messenger to make sure he would send an ice pack and did I need to pay extra. I never heard back from him.  I emailed and never got a reply. 12 days after ordering I read every last word on his website. It states that ONLY a signature express delivery is covered by the LAG. I sent an email to let him know I wanted a signature delivery and commented on the original post to let him know I had been trying to contact him. A few days later, I found this post.

I filed with PayPal for many reasons, but the biggest being I will not be available tor receive any packages for a few weeks and was worried they would ship to me during that time frame. When I ordered, I never thought that 3 weeks later I would still be waiting. Not only waiting, but with NO response or contact from the seller.  This is even more aggravating because he has posted videos AND posted AGAIN about the sale on the above mentioned mantids.

Soooo, PayPal sent me an email a week ago telling me my refund would be available on the 23rd. On the 23rd, I received an email stating the sellers bank had declined the eCheck that was to be my refund. So I am again waiting. And have of knowing how long it will take. The seller did reply to PayPal that they were sorry for the delay but they were short handed. Sorry, that is not a viable excuse. If you have had time to post videos and post to gain more sales, you should make sure to stay in contact with those who have already ordered from you.

I am fairly certain I will eventually get my money back. My son is saddened by all of this though. He is HFA and trusts everyone. He has fallen in love with this species and we have had no luck in finding them and were ecstatic when we found them on sale. Now we are left to search again.

Thank you so much for posting about your experience. All of you. Had I not read this, I would likely have waited for a very long time as I try to see the best in people as well. My time to file for a refund could have come and gone and I would have been left with nothing.  

For the record, this is only the 3rd purchase from a "large reputable website" I have made. 2 of those experiences were bad. The 3rd purchase was from Cheryl and our ghost from her are doing amazing!  All but one of our other purchases have been from people we have connected with in this group. And all of those experiences have been good, if not great. I am truly grateful for this group in so many ways!!!


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## River Dane (Jul 25, 2018)

I’m so sorry about your awful experience. There’s no reason the seller could upload content and still leave you hanging about your mantis after waiting weeks. Good luck with getting your money back! I’m sure PayPal will side with you if he still doesn’t ship soon. But I’m glad you were able to read this and take action when you did.

It’s a shame how many unreliable vendors became so large and lied their way into a “reputable” status. But if you’re still looking for _H. venosa, _I think there’s some available at PanTerraPets, and you can check her breeder feedback here.

The MantidForum is indeed probably one of the best and safest places for mantiskeepers to sell and buy from, and overall just get together to talk about mantids!


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## Synapze (Jul 25, 2018)

River Dane said:


> But if you’re still looking for _H. venosa, _I think there’s some available at PanTerraPets, and you can check her breeder feedback here.


My H. venosa is from PanTerra and she's splendidly healthy and beautiful. If you're lucky you might get one from the same bloodline. ?


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## Chemz (Jul 25, 2018)

So glad i saw this post, when I bought my first mantis I almost purchased from this seller.


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## Predatorhousepet (Jul 25, 2018)

I am sorry your son was let down like that. I hope you are able to find his favorite mantis for him soon. Kevin supposedly has unusual colorations so finding a red armed venosa may be difficult. It looks like the most common variety is the golden armed venosa which I believe is what Panterrapets has but I would email her and ask to be sure.

It sounds like PayPal has already sided with you if they've tried to process the refund but his bank refused to process it. I'm guessing it's because the money was already withdrawn from the account so there was nothing to give you. Usually PayPal waits 30 days before releasing payment to the seller for this very reason but his account probably predates this policy. I am surprised that he still has a PayPal account after all these complaints. 

What doesn't make sense is his excuse, if he is so short staffed that he needs extra time to catch up on orders why is he posting sale ads for new orders? The only reason I can think of is that he needs the money so badly he is pulling it out of the bank as soon as it's available then struggles to catch up on the orders as they pile up. Everytime he needs cash he posts a new sale ad, more orders come in and the cycle continues. I can sympathize being hard up for cash but getting it in this way is dishonest and scammy, especially if he completely ignores his customers attempts to contact him or if he does reply he strings them along with vague promises.

I am not saying this is true in his situation but I have seen this type of money seeking behavior and lack of remorse of getting it through dishonest means in drug addicts. They will lie to their own mother to get a fix nevermind a bunch of faceless strangers on the internet. Again I am not saying this is the case just that his behavior is reminiscent of it. He could just be a plain old con artist. I could understand if maybe he had gotten in over his head with too many orders and felt ashamed so he just started ignoring the problem but his posting new sales ads says otherwise as he is actively trying to get more people to send him money, damn the consequences. This has also apparently been going on for years, so the excuse that it's accidental or temporary doesn't hold up.

For anyone that has previously ordered from him and didn't get what you ordered you have up to 6 months to file a claim with PayPal...and even if it's been longer than that PayPal will probably still side with you if the order was never shipped and you explain the circumstances, it's worth a try anyway.


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