# Prize For The RIght Answer.....



## enlightenment (Dec 14, 2006)

As regulars know, I have and do keep a range of different insects and archanids, etc.

Here is a question.

When one of my Mantids dies, I have often placed the body in a tub, and to be honest, it does decompose a little, but essentially keeps it's shape.

I once had a Centipede, and when it died, it literally turned to 'dust', after a short time!

Why was this?

Any scientific reason?

There is a prize on offer, to the first genuine answer...

*A brand new Aston Martin DB9!* :wink:


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## joossa (Dec 14, 2006)

I know that insects have an exoskeleton that is made up of chitin surrounded by a matrix of protein. The outermost layer also contains wax molecules. All these parts combined protect the exoskeleton from decay. You can think of it as our bones, which will not rot or dissolve easily. Or, with the chitin in mind, you can think of Robert Hooke's cork cells, which were dead plant cells that had not decayed because their cell walls contained chitin.

I do not know anything about centipedes, but I would have to guess that they don't have the waxy cell that insects have (which made most insect water proof) or don't have chitin, which allows the exoskeleton to keep its shape, even after death.


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## AFK (Dec 15, 2006)

You said this only happen once with your one-time centipede. If this happens ALL THE TIME with centipedes, then that is puzzling. Until that happens, my best guess is that dermestid beetles and/or other pests got to your dead centipede. When that happens, it will turn to dust, sometimes really fast depending on the environment and amount of pests.


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## enlightenment (Dec 15, 2006)

> You said this only happen once with your one-time centipede. If this happens ALL THE TIME with centipedes, then that is puzzling. Until that happens, my best guess is that dermestid beetles and/or other pests got to your dead centipede. When that happens, it will turn to dust, sometimes really fast depending on the environment and amount of pests.


No, can't be that, it had been kept in an airtight tube, after it died.


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## enlightenment (Dec 15, 2006)

> I know that insects have an exoskeleton that is made up of chitin surrounded by a matrix of protein. The outermost layer also contains wax molecules. All these parts combined protect the exoskeleton from decay. You can think of it as our bones, which will not rot or dissolve easily. Or, with the chitin in mind, you can think of Robert Hooke's cork cells, which were dead plant cells that had not decayed because their cell walls contained chitin.I do not know anything about centipedes, but I would have to guess that they don't have the waxy cell that insects have (which made most insect water proof) or don't have chitin, which allows the exoskeleton to keep its shape, even after death.


_Could_ be that....


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## ABbuggin (Dec 15, 2006)

I have another idea that could be the answer. :wink:

Did you notice any beetle larvae (molts or adults) around the centipede? Was therre anything inside the centipede? If so they are called museum beetles and are famous for turning dead insects into "dust" (trust me I know it!  )

This might be to solution sice this has only happened to oe cetipede and not other ones. :wink:


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## enlightenment (Dec 15, 2006)

> I have another idea that could be the answer. :wink: Did you notice any beetle larvae (molts or adults) around the centipede? Was therre anything inside the centipede? If so they are called museum beetles and are famous for turning dead insects into "dust" (trust me I know it!  )
> 
> This might be to solution sice this has only happened to oe cetipede and not other ones. :wink:


Well, one thing that I forgot to mention, is that when I ran out of tank space, I, being a bit naive, had put two assasin bugs in with the Centipede. I dd not think that it would be a problem, and the Assasins killed it.

Which was a surprise, since the Assasins are about 2 inches and the Pede was HUGE and venomous.

After I removed the body of the dead pede, I placed it in the airtight container, and it was after that that it turned to dust!


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## Rob Byatt (Dec 15, 2006)

> Well, one thing that I forgot to mention, is that when I ran out of tank space, I, being a bit naive, had put two assasin bugs in with the Centipede.


Why did this ever seem like a good idea ? :wink:

Assassin bugs will attack most inverts, especially ones that are long and thin, regardless of size (within reason !).

In the wild, _Platymeris rhadamanthus_ regularly feeds on adult _Orycytes_ beetles.

Maybe best to use another tub next time :wink:

As for the dust, as said before, it sounds like beetle larvae have caused it.

Rob.


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## enlightenment (Dec 15, 2006)

> > Well, one thing that I forgot to mention, is that when I ran out of tank space, I, being a bit naive, had put two assasin bugs in with the Centipede.
> 
> 
> Why did this ever seem like a good idea ? :wink:
> ...


Well, I guess it _wan't _a good idea, in hindsight!

I got the bugs as a present, and I could not get a tank that day, so I thought they would be okay in there, for a time!


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## Rob Byatt (Dec 15, 2006)

Sorry mate, I wasn't having a go at you. I hope you didn't interpret it that way. I was just surprised really; two of the most predatorial invertebrates in the hobby in one tank :shock:

At least you know for next time hey ?!

Rob.


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## enlightenment (Dec 15, 2006)

> Sorry mate, I wasn't having a go at you. I hope you didn't interpret it that way. I ws just surprised really; two of the most predatorial invertebrates in hobby in one tank :shock: At least you know for next time hey ?!
> 
> Rob.


Not at all.

It was early days, and a mistake, in the way that some people keep unsuitable fish together, only to find out the hard way.


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## Ian (Dec 15, 2006)

Steve, the only viable explanation I can think would be mites or larvae in the skin...can't think of anything else it could have been. Not sure that it could have just naturally decomposed. For such an answer, you are offering a fantastic prize


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## Mister Michael (Dec 15, 2006)

Assassins use a chemical to liquify(sp?) the insides of their prey so they can just drink the insides...maybe the chemical was still dissolving and breaking down the pede and that was the result....well thats about the only new answer I got...


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## AFK (Dec 16, 2006)

how well sealed was your container? dermestid beetles are notorious for finding the slightest sliver of a crack that you never knew existed.

how soon did you transfer your centipede to your sealed container after it died? dermestid beetles could have easily latched onto it or laid tiny eggs on it in the short amount of time you waited in between the transfer.


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## enlightenment (Dec 17, 2006)

> Assassins use a chemical to liquify(sp?) the insides of their prey so they can just drink the insides...maybe the chemical was still dissolving and breaking down the pede and that was the result....well thats about the only new answer I got...


I think we have the possible answer.


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## enlightenment (Dec 17, 2006)

> *how well sealed was your container? * dermestid beetles are notorious for finding the slightest sliver of a crack that you never knew existed.*how soon did you transfer your centipede to your sealed container after it died?* dermestid beetles could have easily latched onto it or laid tiny eggs on it in the short amount of time you waited in between the transfer.


Very well sealed, and straight away.


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## AFK (Dec 18, 2006)

you mean you killed the centipede with a quick means of death or you sat there and literally saw him pass away right before your eyes? cuz if dermestid beetles are already nearby or in the tank, it could just take a few minutes for the beetles to latch on.


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## enlightenment (Dec 18, 2006)

> you mean you killed the centipede with a quick means of death or you sat there and literally saw him pass away right before your eyes? cuz if dermestid beetles are already nearby or in the tank, it could just take a few minutes for the beetles to latch on.


No, I did not kill it mate, the AB's did, and did so overnight.

What_ are _dermestid beetles?


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## AFK (Dec 18, 2006)

whoops, my bad. please excuse my horrible memory lol.  

well, if i'm understanding this correctly, you woke up one morning to find your centipede killed by your assassin bugs. it's quite possible that some dermestid beetles got to your centipede in the middle of the night, especially if you already have dermestid beetles nearby or in the tank.

dermestid beetle, a.k.a. "museum beetle" and "carpet beetle,":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermestid_Beetle

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&amp;...sa=N&amp;tab=wi


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