# Idolomantis - almost adult



## tier

Hi

The first larvae start getting big, pumped up wingsheaths. Hopefully soon the first pair is ready 









regards


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## hibiscusmile

I hope you do well with them and knowing you, I am sure you will!


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## tier

hibiscusmile said:


> I hope you do well with them and knowing you, I am sure you will!


Thank you, honey B)


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## Katnapper

Best of luck with them, Tier!


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## tier

Hi

Thanks, Katnapper.

Here are the first adults, one male and two females, all moulted adult within the last 4 days. And, to my surprise, all became perfect adults. Another, third, female moulted adult this night, but was decaputated by the smallest larvae in the enclosure, a presubadult female. Anyway, as some of you know I have a few overplus females. So I am just very very happy. So far that means that all final moultings which were not disturbed by another animal were 100% succesfull. Wow, it's working as good as with Gongylus :lol: 













regards


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## Pelle

Nice! Good luck with them

Cool plants in your enclosure btw..


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## Kruszakus

Is that dill?

By the way - you mantids are lame, as always


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## hibiscusmile

Thats so exciting Tier! Haven't heard of anyone getting this far without a lot of dead, U the Man!


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## Kruszakus

hibiscusmile said:


> Thats so exciting Tier! Haven't heard of anyone getting this far without a lot of dead, U the Man!


Hehehe, then buckle up for da big Krus G in tae house!


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## Christian

Forget it! You're all beginners compared to the ultimate _Atlantoharpax_ daddy!


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## Kruszakus

Christian said:


> Forget it! You're all beginners compared to the ultimate _Atlantoharpax_ daddy!


Really? Because I hear that Mantisdeperu has apparently just bred this species, and introduced it to the world-wide market! Yo, for real.


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## Christian




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## tier

Thanks all.

I dont know the name of these plants, but I am sure its no "Dill". I will make some pictures for you soon. I found these plants outside and thought they are good looking for huge Empusidae. Seems to be correct so far.

But I am not a pro with this species, as I bought all larvae when they where pretty big already, like L6-L7. And I bought captive bread specimens in perfect conditions.

Time will tell if they will mate, if they will lay ooth, if some new babies will hatch and if these babies will become adults. So it will need month until I will maybe have the chance to say "I was succesfull". I know that it even needs two or three generation of breeding a species until you can say you know to handle them.

I will keep you updated, I am excited by myself.


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## spawn

Tier - good to see you're still keeping exotics! I know you did great with the Gongylodes, and I learned a lot from you. What temps/humidity are you keeping these? And are you only feeding flies or maybe some moths too?


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## tier

Hi

I mainly feed flies, all kind of big flies, but mainly bluebottles.

Sometimes I went collecting Syrphidae, especially big species. And sometimes I recieved some hundred bees from my local beekeepers. But now, the summer is gone and autumn starts, so until next spring, only flies will be available and fed. I don't like these waxmoth, never had too good experiences with them. I would love to get some big moth, but I don't know a breeder and I have no traps for big nocturnal moth.

The temperatures are 25-35°C daytime and 18-22°C nighttime, I keep them humid misting almost every day, especially because of the final moultings.

regards


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## Kruszakus

I went on a walk and I found the exact same plant on a field not far away from my house. I also found a drunken bum lying in the grass! When he saw me, he immediatelly started screaming at me and soon he was chasing me! Luckily, my slow paced walk was still faster than his petty attempts at running. Man, that was some creepy stuff...

By the way - my first adult molted with no problems. But I guess it will take like a good week for colors to kick in.

TIER!

I have to reiterate your sentiments about waxmoths! People laugh at me when I say it's a really bad feeder insect, but it is true! Especially with Empusidae. I was doing phenomenal with Idolomorpha, but when I started feeding them with large waxmoths, they suddenly turned infertile. The same went for P. wahlbergii, B. mendica and various other species.


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## spawn

Haha. Thanks for sharing guys. I've never really gotten into waxmoths, but people in the frog trade seem to like them (very few, but no 'weird' stories like yours). Could it have anything to do with the wax worm meal being pretty close to wet cardboard LOL??!

*Edit: by the way, how are you guys attaining such high temps during the day? Just curious because last time I kept something that needed it this warm was Gongylodes, and I used a ceramic lamp, and in the basking areas it got up to 108 Fahrenheit (42C?), but I almost think it was too hot because although the mantids were active, they seemed to be in a 'hot' zone under the lamp and never mated properly. What watt lamps are you using? How close to the top of the enclosure? Or are you heating the room?? I have much to learn from you guys, as I've been out of the mantis art for a year or so now, and I'm rusty.. &lt;_&lt;


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## Kruszakus

I actually use just one lamp (not just the bulb, there's metal funnel thingy around it), usually 60W, for about one square meter. Plus, I place one 9-13W lamp inside the enclosure, just to have more light inside. The other part of the enclosure is darker/colder one - apparently, it's the home of the dark side of the force, and some nymphs like it.


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## Christian

I usually have about 2-3 40 W halogene bulbs combined with a heater cable inside the cage. I use fluorescent lights as well, but only as a light source.


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## wero626

Dang those are some cool mantids wow nice!!!


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## tier

Hi

Yes, I use three 40W spots for each 50x60x90cm enclosure, they are fixed 1cm above the enclosure.









Here is a pic of the plants and a pic of a horrible thread pose









regards


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## Kruszakus

About that threat pose... did you use crayons on it or what?  

By the way - was that female greened-up by you, or is it her natural color?


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## Christian

That's the natural color, some are paler though.


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## Kruszakus

Damn! This species is really the king of all mantids, and if I breed them, I'm gonna be the king of all breeders. Yes that right. Aquinas spoke of the mythical city on the hill, and soon that city may be a reality, and I will be crowned as its king, or better than king... God!


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## tier

YaYaYaYaYa

First get yours green, Krus...


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## Morpheus uk

Who'd of thought a tan sandy brown mantis suddenly exsplodes into colour after reaching adult. Saying that you should see some phasmids, mottled gery/brown colouration turning into bright blue with red and yellow spines h34r:


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## Katnapper

Very colorful threat pose, Tier... beautiful.  

Very colorful dreams, Kruszakus.


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## Kruszakus

It's actually a quote from Deus Ex, I always wanted to use it  

Besides, I don't dream - 15 pairs I keep for myself ain't no dream, it's as real as it gets


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## MantidLord

Kruszakus said:


> Damn! This species is really the king of all mantids, and if I breed them, I'm gonna be the king of all breeders. Yes that right. Aquinas spoke of the mythical city on the hill, and soon that city may be a reality, and I will be crowned as its king, or better than king... God!


Are you trying to take my title as the "Mantid Lord"??

Just realized, I'm a mantis!


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## tier

Ha!

First strike!





regards


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## Katnapper

That's great!


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## tier

Thank you. Yes, this is great. :lol: 

When I realized that they were mating, it was around 1PM. Now, at 4.40PM, the male left the female. So they were connected for at least 3.5hours. But maybe even much longer, I don't know when mating started.

regards


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## Gurd

Congrats mate B) 

I know what you mean about it being great


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## Kruszakus

You lucky bastard!

They are getting to it fast, eh?

Man, wing-buds on my females are getting nicely fat - I cannot wait to see adults!


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## tier

Hi

Thanks Gurd. Wow! Your website is now one of the best I know!

Yes, Krus, you got it. Well, I found out that the female which was mated yesterday molted adult on the 28.9 or on the 31.9.

This means she is at least 4-4.5 weeks adult now. But I have not yet seen a female releasing pheromones. Actually, there is a good chance that she was ready already ;-) The male is adult since the 25.9, so since around 5 weeks.

We will see ;-)

Good luck with the adult moltings of your females. I have now one adult male and 4 adult females. One female was decaputated while the final molting, and one female molted adult almost perfect, but one raptorial foreleg sticked to the old skin and she curled up her whole body so I lost her.

So, taken together, within 7 adult moultings (1 male, 6 females), one male and 4 females molted perfectly, one female was killed by another one while adult molting and one female was lost because she sticked to her old skin with one leg.

regards


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## Gurd

tier said:


> HiThanks Gurd. Wow! Your website is now one of the best I know!


Your way too kind mate, but thanks


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## tier

Wow! Can't believe how great this male is! The next female was mated today 

















regards


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## Kruszakus

I want mine to mature! Now, now, now!!!


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## tier

"Knock Knock"

"Who is there?"

"It's me!"

"Who?"

"Me, the first fertile Idolomantis ooth!"





regards


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## leviatan

WooooW  ooth looks huge !!


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## Christian

That's standard for this stock.


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## leviatan

Christian said:


> That's standard for this stock.


Yup, but for me still huge


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## Kruszakus

Mozoltov on the first ooth!

My Idolomantis started maturing a while ago - I expect a whole lotta adults by the end of the month  Let's hope that as many of them make it.


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## tier

Thanks.

And? How are your adult moltings working? Got some nice adults, or have problems with the last molt?

regards


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## Kruszakus

Nope, no problems at all. But I need to buy some lamps and stuff and distribute nymphs to other enclosures - otherwise it will be too crowded inside those I use now. I don't wanna one nymph walkin' all over another while it's molting.


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## tier

Ahh, good to hear.


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## Gurd

Congrats on the 1st ooth mate, I hope it is the 1st of many.


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## ABbuggin

Congrats!


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## tier

Thanks to all


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## Kruszakus

Christian said:


> That's standard for this stock.


What do you mean by saying "this stock"?


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## tier

Kruszakus said:


> What do you mean by saying "this stock"?


IGM Number 25


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## Kruszakus

I dunno what the heck is IGM 25. Shed a bit of light on it, please.


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## tier

Ever checked the link in Christian's signature?  :angry: &lt;_&lt; 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Kruszakus

No! The last time I visited that link, it re-directed me to a site with Bruce Vilanch's naked pictures!

But hey, my Idolomantis are from Tansania too


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## tier

:lol: 

Well, the stock Number 25 is from Tanzania. But it is from ONE special part in Tanzania, the Mwanza/Mara region. It is in stock since 2004. You can find these informations in the link.

There is a new entry in the list: Number 167. When you focus on number 167 in the list, you will find a lot of question marks. These information are lacking. But the stock's name is "_Craig's stock_". Maybe it's the stock Gurd (= Craig) raised up last year? We do not know from which area in Tanzania it is coming from, so it has a new, special number, the number 167. This helps breeders to distinguish them from each other.

If your mantids are from Tanzania, but from a third location there, they will get a new, individual number as well in the future.

You see why we are always "angry" when people don't even use the scientific name, as that is not enough for us and we continue and give different stocks of the same species different numbers. While some are talking about "dead leaf mantis", and others are talking of the scientific names of all the different species of the genus Deroplatys, we even distinguish between 3 different stocks of D. lobata, or four different stocks of Idolomantis diabolica.

This is the same like all zoos and all breeders do with all kind of animals to provide inbreeding as well as outbreeding. Outbreeding seems to be much more worse than inbreeding when it comes to mantids... That's why I keep the I. diabolica 25 and the I. diabolica I got from you apart from each other. I have two stocks right now and will not mix them if it is not necessary.

Well, if nobody can say where number 167 originates from, and if nobody knows where your "new stock" originates from, both will maybe put together to stock number 167, as 167 will mean: "Mixed stock from different areas in Tanzania". This will have to be discussed later. The same would happen if I mixed up my two stocks in future. The two stocks would become number 167 also, as they were "mixed from different Tanzanian regions" as well.

regards


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## tier

Hah, today the fifth female was mated, I have 8 ooth now, hatching should start at Christmas B)


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## ismart

tier said:


> Hah, today the fifth female was mated, I have 8 ooth now, hatching should start at Christmas B)


Very nice! I hope many hatch!


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## Katnapper

Best of luck with them.


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## tier

Hi

Thanks a lot. Still waiting for the first hatch, and still afraid that nothing could hatch. We will see soon.

The oldest male has died now, he was about almost 3 month adult.

Another female, one of my youngest, has matured adult now. I hope one of the males will live for another 5 weeks. But I still have some males, so I do not have to sell this fresh female. I now have 10 ooth from my 5 mated girls.

regards


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## Kruszakus

Is that "fresh" female the one you got from me?


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## cloud jaguar

cool beans.


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## hibiscusmile

You the Man Tier!


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## tier

Kruszakus said:


> Is that "fresh" female the one you got from me?


Hi

I am not sure, maybe. Thanks a lot again!

Thanks you all for your nice comments  

regards


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## Mantibama

Wow those are some really awesome pics. What a beautiful species.


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## tier

Hi

The first layed ooth hatched out today after an incubating time of 60 days (21-23°C nighttime, 28.5-31.5°C daytime).

This is the first time I can see L1 Idolomantis live. Great. Well, as it is the first layed ooth which hatched out today, and a lot ooth are beiing incubated right now, maybe some more nymphs will hatch out in future.

regards


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## ABbuggin

Congrats! How many nymphs hatched?


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## revmdn

Congrats.


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## Katnapper

Congratulations on the first ooth hatching  , and best of luck the other ones will also hatch handsomely for you.


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## hibiscusmile

I should send u some diapers :lol:


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## tier

Hi

Thanks. Its almost 60:





regards


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## yen_saw

B) congrate!!! bad news for the flies


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## Kruszakus

Congrats! Looks like you are gonna make a mint  

Mine started mating after only 3 weeks since the last molt, kinda early, but it's good to know, that I don't have a bunch of lazy layabouts.


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## ismart

Wow! Congradulations tier! Wish you the best with your new babys!


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## tier

Hi

Thanks to all!

Good to hear your Idolomantis are mating, too, Kruszakus 

regards


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## Kruszakus

Yeah, but there's no ooths - I guess that mating after just 3 weeks is way too early.


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## PhilinYuma

Belated congratulations! I guess that you'll be giving up your day job, now?


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## tier

Thanks a lot, Phil!

You are almost right.

First I have to get back my 1000$+ expenditure for this species (not including my expenditure for my first try with this species several years ago).

But anyway, I have no "dayjob". I have "only" a phd scholarship from the German Academic Exchange Service. And to be honest: I would burn all my mantids instead of giving up this scholarship ;-)

But I know what you mean, I hope I can get back my expenditure plus continue breeding this species plus not giving up my phd scholarship.  

And if it is not working, I still have Gongylus ;-)

:lol: :lol: :lol: 

reggies,

tier


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## tier

Hi

I have the first L3 now, they are almost white, will take a picture soon.

Here is a L2 eating a L1, the L2's sometimes eat each other, too.





regards


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## tier

Hi

The title of the thread starts to make sence again. Here are some pictures of daily feeding 





































regards


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## hibiscusmile

Best of Blessing to your work there Tier, and hope you get that PHD


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## swords

Amazing series of images over all 4 pages!

About the bees, is that necessary for this species? I am more and more allergic to bee stings each time I get stung, never used to be as a kid. But anyway, if these guys MUST have bees to eat I think this species is out for me. If you choose to feed bees instead of flies why?


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## tier

Hi

Thnky you all.

I never got stung by a bee or wasp or anything like that, so I do not know if I am maybe reacting allergic to it.

I am also not sure about the importance of bees as food for _Idolomantis_. Maybe they are not necessary, but I for myself will offer them. I know from experience that _Gongylus_ fed only on flies do fine. But I know a lot of _Idolomantis_ in captivity have big problems, especially with adult moulting. Maybe the bees offer extra-power which may important (or even kind of necessary) for the last and final moultings. Who knows. This species is so expensive and so delicate and susceptible to faults that I decided bees are a must for mine. But I use 95% flies as food for _Idolomantis_, bees are offered once a month or so, in cold winter month there are no bees available here in Germany anyway.

regards,

Stefan


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## spawn

Glad to see you're still maintaning a high standard of living for your mantids tier. I recall from the past you're one of the few keepers who looks out for the mantids in such a way that best matches their natural living quarters. I applaud your great work and experiences with these animals. You raise the bar for all of us. And beautiful pictures


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## tier

Ahh, Come on. You make me feel shy 

Thanks, mate


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## revmdn

Mine are finally big enough to offer bee's. I'll find some today, thanks.


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## Rick

revmdn said:


> Mine are finally big enough to offer bee's. I'll find some today, thanks.


Mine are L4 and could probably take a small bee. However, only small bees I could catch would be honeybees but it is a big no no to kill those. So far they are doing fine on flies. I will catch some moths and things for them though. So far I have had no issues with them.


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## revmdn

How about dusting the flies with the pollen and honey powder mix?


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## Rick

revmdn said:


> How about dusting the flies with the pollen and honey powder mix?


I feed my flies honey and pollen. I used to dust with pollen so maybe I will pick that back up.


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## revmdn

I haven't done that in a while, I should start again.


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## Colorcham427

revmdn said:


> I haven't done that in a while, I should start again.


I have a bunch of Idolomantises now, 16 of them are BIG L3s, possibly heading to L4 already?? And 10 of them are freshly moulted L2s. Still have a trio of sub adults waiting for them to molt!

I love dusting with bee pollen. I keep a container filled with it. I get the finest powder from shaking the container really hard and fast. From doing that, on the sides of the container, the finest powder is there. I simply scoop it off and toss it in with the cup of "sleepy flies" :lol: to shake around and get them covered in it.  

What is this honey powder? Anyplace I can buy it in bulk? I am speaking about ebay or some source such as that! B)


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## Mex_Ghost

Tier:

Your Idolomantis are so beautiful. keeping them at 28 °C at day would be ok with Idolomantis?

About your bees... how do you keep them alive? cause I catch some bees outside.... and if the mantids don´t eat them, the bees tend to stop flying and then in few hours( I think minutes) they die!!!.

When they stop flying I use them for other mantids like Coronatus that they eat almost everything.

saludos


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## hibiscusmile

Try the fridge for the wasps and bees, it really slows them down and they last days, they are good for the orchids.

On another note, I sell the honey powder, this is not the ground that is little balls, this is powder.



No grinding or smashing necessary.

My idols are wondering if they will make it to adult and then who will they be married too? They are going on 3rd and 4th instar and already looking to be betrothed to new bloodlines, any takers wanting to share let me know!


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## tier

hibiscusmile said:


> Try the fridge for the wasps and bees, it really slows them down and they last days, they are good for the orchids.


Hi

My bee keeper/honey producer told me to keep them warm, at around 26°C. They have to be fed with honey or 50:50 water/sugar. Additionally, the need pure water. They will last only a few days. Without this treatment, they will live for one or two days only.

Rick is 100% right when he is mentioning that honey bees should not offered nowadays, because of the colony collapse disorder. But I guess it is fine to offer them if your local bee keeper has no problems with colony collapse disorder, but has a lot of overplus bees. Maybe wasps are a good choice?

Do not go out and collect honey bees in the wild. Right. In Germany, most of the solitair wild living bees are protected by law. Some wasps, like hornets, are protected by law in Germany, too, if I remember it correctly.

Today I read an article when a was sitting in the waiting room at the dentist. It was about the honey bee colony collapse disorder. It said that some people say the Varroa mite is causing this problem, other say big concerns are causing this problem because of new insectizides. The new poison is not sprayed on the plants, but the seeds are contaminated. Thus, with growing, the poison will be present inside the whole plant. Anyway, it may effect the environment...

regards

edit: Mexxico ghost: For IGM 25, 28°C is too cold. They need 30°C. Maybe it will take a while, but you will loose all ii they are IGM 25 and if you not raise temperatures.


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## Mex_Ghost

Once I asked a bee keeper to sell me some bees a week, but he told me that it was going to be more expensive sending me the bees than the bees and that I might try to catch them where I live :blink: , but reading what you say I´ll try to find someone who want to sell bees, cause I catched last week about 30 bees, and I think is the amount I need by week (between 30 and 40). Also I´ll should try to catch better butterflies or moths.

Saludos

Arturo


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## Ghozt

i have 2 idolos that i had since l2 ! They are going to be adult in a few weeks...


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