# Trying to breed Idolomantis diabolica



## macro junkie (Mar 28, 2008)

I have 9 nympths,8 are eating well and getting fat,but theres 1 that has a twisted front claw and he cant catch the fruit flys,hes getting thin,i tryed to hand feed him but it wouldnt take it.so i havent got much hope for that little guy.so 8 healthy nympths,the 1ftx1ft net cage is heated to 92f last time i looked.There feeding on culywings and frute flys..il update the thread soon as they start to shed to 2nd instar,


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## darkspeed (Mar 28, 2008)

Poor little fella...

Keep trying to get it to eat...Fruitfly on the end of a needle stuck up to its mouth might do the trick. If it can just make it to the next shed It more than likely will overcome its handicap.

Best of luck Scott.


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## macro junkie (Apr 1, 2008)

there all still 1st instar.eating lots.Heres some pics


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## macro junkie (Apr 2, 2008)

iv just checked and 2/9 has shed to 2nd instar..il get some pics later.


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## mrblue (Apr 2, 2008)

i wrote down when my four idolos would shed to see how long each instar takes, i thought it might be useful to you to have some guidelines or something to compare to. i stopped counting around christmas though so i only have information on the lower instars.

L2&gt;L3---24/09----29/09----29/09----4/10

________13______14______14_____14

L3&gt;L4---07/10----13/10----13/10----18/10

________16______17______24_____21

L4&gt;L5---23/10----30/10----06/11----08/11

________18______19______14_____18

L5&gt;L6---10/11----18/11----20/11----07/12

________31

L6&gt;L7---11/12-----N/A------N/A-------N/A

second instar took on average 14 days

third instar on average 20 days (had a bit of a fly drought after the first two shed)

fourth instar on average 17 days (one of them was making up for lost time i guess!). averages arent really useful at all, but you get the idea.

if you keep this thread up to date it will become a useful resource, not least for the great macro photos of each instar (i hope!).


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## macro junkie (Apr 2, 2008)

mrblue said:


> L2&gt;L3---24/09----29/09----29/09----4/10 ________13______14______14_____14
> 
> L3&gt;L4---07/10----13/10----13/10----18/10
> 
> ...


thanks for that helpfull info.


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## macro junkie (Apr 3, 2008)

only 2 have shedd so far..every thing went fine and there eating lots.heres a face shot at 2nd instar,i got some body shots il upload them in a bit.


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## macro junkie (Apr 3, 2008)

update..another 1 just shed to 2nd instar...3 shed fine,just 6 to go.


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## MantidLord (Apr 3, 2008)

So little twisty is doing fine? Good to hear


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## macro junkie (Apr 4, 2008)

MantidLord said:


> So little twisty is doing fine? Good to hear


no..hes dead..they all shed now but 1..but the guy your talking about didnt shed right and got all twisted up..so i have 7 shed fine to L2 and 1 thats going to shed any day now,,2 of them have only got 3 legs..but they shed fine so hopfully they wil grow back in a few sheds,.


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## macro junkie (Apr 6, 2008)

i just bought some timers..i have set it up to go off at 12 midnight and come on at 6am..does that sound about right to u guys..6 hours dark?


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## darkspeed (Apr 6, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> i just bought some timers..i have set it up to go off at 12 midnight and come on at 6am..does that sound about right to u guys..6 hours dark?


Because of temp flucuations in my house and outside especially I have mine set up 14/10... but it is backwards in comparison with the sun...The light is off during the day when it warms up in the house, and comes on in the evening and stays on throughout the night to provide warmth when it is cooler in the house. The house is insulated well so the temps are within 65 - 75F degrees inside where temps outside may fluctuate between 40 at night and 80 during the day. We try to not use any heating or cooling during this time of year to save money, and so lighting them that way seemed the most efficient way to keep them warm (80f) all the time. Once it gets hot outside and the AC is being used the inside temp will stay around 75, and I'll give them less "night" as a result. This system also works well because the males that I have in slow motion are simply put in a different location unnaffected by the lamp, thus recieving a cooler life with a seperate day/night cycle.

BTW I am dying to more progression pics of your nymphs. Untill your recent L-1 L-2 pics I had only seen subadult and adult shots of Idols. I am curious to see them as they grow. I am looking forward to keeping them someday, once I am successfull at raising and breeding spinys and orchids.


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## macro junkie (Apr 6, 2008)

thanks for the info darkspeed..i have 7 at 2nd instar now..and 1 thats still 1st instar.2 of them only have 3 legs which they lost during trasnsport.so no pics to update yet..all tho im going to try and get some shots now of 2nd instar just because im board..


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## macro junkie (Apr 12, 2008)

They all shed fine to 3rd instar the last few days,.


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## darkspeed (Apr 13, 2008)

Wow, they are growing fast! All my Acromantid nymphs are still at L-1

Cant wait to see new pics.


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## macro junkie (Apr 13, 2008)

DARKSPEED said:


> Wow, they are growing fast!


Yer thats all the food there eating..there feeding on green bottles now.and there always eating.like yen said in his thread "they got huge appetites"


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## macro junkie (Apr 15, 2008)

7 have shed to 3rd instar...the pink colour has gone now.


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## macro junkie (Apr 17, 2008)

sub adult female still hasnt shed yet.


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## Malnra (Apr 17, 2008)

Nice looking "bugs" there MJ ;- )

Question about the day/night ... they really need the cycle ?

also

The males mature more quickly than the females ? I guess it gives the males more time as an adult before they risk losing their heads.

also

Why slow the males down ? If they are geared to mature faster, then in the wild they would also and surely breed there.


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## macro junkie (Apr 17, 2008)

Geoff_K said:


> Nice looking "bugs" there MJ ;- )Question about the day/night ... they really need the cycle ?
> 
> also
> 
> ...


i now have the lighting on 18 hours on 6 hours off.

u cant slow down the males..it doesnt work with this species..if every thing isnt optimum they wont do well.rember i got these 2 nymphs at 4th and 5th instar so i dont even know if there both from the same ooth?

yen was saying dont worry..he has males that have lived for 4-5months iof i remember correctly


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## Malnra (Apr 17, 2008)

what do you use to maintain the temp when the lights are out ? testing out using a 10 gal fishtank upsidedown i can maintain 85 degrees and 65% humidity as long as the lights are on. i have turned out the lights to see just how cold it will get, but think it would be too cold for idolo's (basement is colder then the rest of the house) ....


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## macro junkie (Apr 17, 2008)

Geoff_K said:


> what do you use to maintain the temp when the lights are out ? testing out using a 10 gal fishtank upsidedown i can maintain 85 degrees and 65% humidity as long as the lights are on. i have turned out the lights to see just how cold it will get, but think it would be too cold for idolo's (basement is colder then the rest of the house) ....


i have a heater set on a thermostat..there in my bedroom and i like to keep my bedroom warm any way.80f when lights out.


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## Malnra (Apr 17, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> i have a heater set on a thermostat..there in my bedroom and i like to keep my bedroom warm any way.80f when lights out.


80 .. ouch it is not that warm during the day at my house .... 73 degrees is about right for me..... i may have to invest in a heating mat to use during the lights out phase ..... i may look for the heating pad my wife used to use .... she wont look down there for it and i can pull the ... heck i never used it, where did you leave it line .. LOL


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## bugzilla (Apr 17, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> i have a heater set on a thermostat..there in my bedroom and i like to keep my bedroom warm any way.80f when lights out.


OMG I'd melt :lol: 

What about those ceramic heater dealies that reptile keepers use, the ones that hang like a light bulb?


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## macro junkie (Apr 24, 2008)

sub adult female. &lt;_&lt; I wish she would hurry up.Shes stoped eating a couple days ago and lights just went out..hopfully shes going to shed in the next 48hours?


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## mrblue (Apr 24, 2008)

still?! you must be having kittens. that's a phrase, right? it is now. i dont know how or where youre keeping her but it might be a good idea to cover her container somehow, to give her a bit of peace? i did this (just taped some pieces of paper to the sides of the containers, on all sides. it was pretty ghetto but it did the trick) when mine were moulting to adult and they all made it fine. i'm not saying thats what made them moult fine or that it's necessary or anything, but it just seemed like a good idea to give them as much peace as possible i thought. no harm in just trying right?


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## macro junkie (Apr 24, 2008)

mrblue said:


> still?! you must be having kittens. that's a phrase, right? it is now. i dont know how or where youre keeping her but it might be a good idea to cover her container somehow, to give her a bit of peace? i did this (just taped some pieces of paper to the sides of the containers, on all sides. it was pretty ghetto but it did the trick) when mine were moulting to adult and they all made it fine. i'm not saying thats what made them moult fine or that it's necessary or anything, but it just seemed like a good idea to give them as much peace as possible i thought. no harm in just trying right?


i dont see there being any point..i rember my male shedding to adult..this was when i had the light on 24/7.they dont need the dark to shed..im sure she will shed when shes ready..last few days they have swallon up alot.shouldnt be long now..Lets hope the male lives long enough..How long did your males last in adult stage?


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## mrblue (Apr 24, 2008)

i'm not saying they need darkness to moult (all my adult moults were done while lamps were still on), i'm saying maybe if there are less visual distractions she will have more peace and less chance of something going wrong, but do what you feel is best.

2 of my adult males died after eating crickets (they were being looked after for me at my parents house, my mum had seen me feed crickets to mantids before). the third male died about 2 weeks ago, i cant remember how old he was, but he was my youngest, so around a month old? not sure what happened to him really, i sent him to someone to attempt mating and they said he just got really weak and died. and my second youngest male is still alive, only one i got left. i guess he must be a month and half as adult? something like that.


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## macro junkie (Apr 25, 2008)

mrblue said:


> i'm not saying they need darkness to moult (all my adult moults were done while lamps were still on), i'm saying maybe if there are less visual distractions she will have more peace and less chance of something going wrong, but do what you feel is best. 2 of my adult males died after eating crickets (they were being looked after for me at my parents house, my mum had seen me feed crickets to mantids before). the third male died about 2 weeks ago, i cant remember how old he was, but he was my youngest, so around a month old? not sure what happened to him really, i sent him to someone to attempt mating and they said he just got really weak and died. and my second youngest male is still alive, only one i got left. i guess he must be a month and half as adult? something like that.


yen was saying he has males that are 4 months adult.


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## macro junkie (Apr 27, 2008)

5/7 have shed to 4th instar..il get pics of a body shot later..for now heres a mug shot.


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## macro junkie (Apr 30, 2008)

my sub adult female died last night..well..its still alive but is almost dead..she cant move..looks weak...if u need my adult male pm me.i dont need it now  .

that wont put me off tho..im even more determined now to breed these.Most of the other idolo nymphs are 4th instar..hopfully i can have more luck with them..Starting with 2 was always going to be a gamble.i have 7 nympths so im sure i got a better chance with these..


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## macro junkie (Apr 30, 2008)

1 of them just shed to 5th instar, pics coming up.Wow are they growing fast.i think its 5th any way?it could be 4th..im starting to loose track of the instars tbh.


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## macro junkie (May 3, 2008)

Check this out then..iv got most at 4th instar but i have 1 at the back that looks like 2nd instar still..lol god knows whats going on with that..thats the one with 1 leg missing..i received it like that.


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## tier (May 3, 2008)

Hi

Mantids with missing legs always need much more time because they regenerate the missing leg and infact need more time to grow.

regrds


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## macro junkie (May 3, 2008)

tier said:


> HiMantids with missing legs always need much more time because they regenerate the missing leg and infact need more time to grow.
> 
> regrds


oh ok.that would explain it


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## macro junkie (Jun 9, 2008)

1 of the 3 just hit sub adult  shed fine

so from the Mar 29 2008 whichwhere 1st instar 1 is now sub adult on June 09 2008any one good at maths?.


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## Rob Byatt (Jun 9, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> 1 of the 3 just hit sub adult  shed fineso from the Mar 29 2008 whichwhere 1st instar 1 is now sub adult on June 09 2008any one good at maths?.


You sure it's subadult ?


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## mrblue (Jun 9, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


> You sure it's subadult ?


i make that 72 days, unless i went wrong somewhere. if we assume the subadult is a male, it will have shed 7 times. (on average) thats a shed every 10 days or so. if its a female it will have shed 8 times, meaning a shed every 9 days. it doesnt really seem to add up, though i guess as you keep them in 24/7 light and heat maybe they have grown superfast?

ps - thats not taking into account the days it spent at first instar before you got them, any idea when they hatched?


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## macro junkie (Jun 9, 2008)

mrblue said:


> i make that 72 days, unless i went wrong somewhere. if we assume the subadult is a male, it will have shed 7 times. (on average) thats a shed every 10 days or so. if its a female it will have shed 8 times, meaning a shed every 9 days. it doesnt really seem to add up, though i guess as you keep them in 24/7 light and heat maybe they have grown superfast?ps - thats not taking into account the days it spent at first instar before you got them, any idea when they hatched?


rob - im 80% sure its sub adult but il get pics for you all in a bit

mr-blue..remember when i bought them at 1st instar.it could of been that they where about to hit 2nd instar when i got them..i might have the info at the beginning of the thread to how long it took to shed to 2nd instar..if u l;ook at the start of the thread check out the dates..il go get a pic of the mantis now..u know what im like with the wingbuds..its probably not even sub..lol..so il get a pic to double check..and yes..lighting is on 24/7.


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## macro junkie (Jun 9, 2008)

i think its pre subadult..so again i look a ######..lol  any way mayby u can tell me which are male or female or i have all males..lol just my luck.  

number 1












number 2











number 3


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## Rob Byatt (Jun 9, 2008)

No.1 is male; look at the antennae in comparisson to no.2 (female)- they are thicker.

No.1 has two moults until imago, as does no.2. Christian will confirm this - it's been a while since I had them at this stage !!!


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## macro junkie (Jun 9, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


> No.1 is male; look at the antennae in comparisson to no.2 (female)- they are thicker.No.1 has two moults until imago, as does no.2. Christian will confirm this - it's been a while since I had them at this stage !!!


cheers rob


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## mrblue (Jun 9, 2008)

i did think 72 days was too short to reach subadult, even by taking into account the week or so they must have spent at first instar before you got them.

have they moulted the same number of times as each other mj?


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## macro junkie (Jun 9, 2008)

mrblue said:


> i did think 72 days was too short to reach subadult, even by taking into account the week or so they must have spent at first instar before you got them.have they moulted the same number of times as each other mj?


not sure..u saw the pics right on the page before?


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## mrblue (Jun 9, 2008)

i did. mine are all L6 and the wing buds on your first male (number 1) look slightly more developed than the ones on my males, so i would guess he is L7 (2 moults from adult). however your female (number 2) looks exactly like mine, so i would say she is L6 (and four moults from adult). here is one of my L6 females, you can decide for yourself:






your other male (number 3) looks like my males so i would guess he is L6 too (3 moults from adult). but these are just guesses judging from the amount of time youve had them and mainly how they look compared to mine.


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## macro junkie (Jun 10, 2008)

mrblue said:


> i did. mine are all L6 and the wing buds on your first male (number 1) look slightly more developed than the ones on my males, so i would guess he is L7 (2 moults from adult). however your female (number 2) looks exactly like mine, so i would say she is L6 (and four moults from adult). here is one of my L6 females, you can decide for yourself:your other male (number 3) looks like my males so i would guess he is L6 too (3 moults from adult). but these are just guesses judging from the amount of time youve had them and mainly how they look compared to mine.


oh ok..so mine are a little bit better than yours? :lol: im joking..  .thanks for the info..lets hope im left with at leaste 1 male and 1 female at the end of this.how many have you got?


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## mrblue (Jun 10, 2008)

when pace made them available i was a very poor student at the end of his loan installment so could only afford to get five. i still have those five, all at L6 (three females, and 2 males).


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## macro junkie (Jun 10, 2008)

mrblue said:


> when pace made them available i was a very poor student at the end of his loan installment so could only afford to get five. i still have those five, all at L6 (three females, and 2 males).


wicked


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## macro junkie (Jun 17, 2008)




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## Isis (Jun 18, 2008)

Beauties  I am keeping my fingers crossed for you guys


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## MikhailsDinos (Jun 18, 2008)

Okay, all 9 are now L6 and I'm waiting for my first L7. My male still is doing very well and is behind the females by one molt.

Thanks again

Mikhail


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## pohchunyee (Jun 18, 2008)

Sorry Mikhail.....my stock died for no reason!!!


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## macro junkie (Jun 19, 2008)

pohchunyee said:


> Sorry Mikhail.....my stock died for no reason!!!


did u have heat lamps?fed them on just flys?why do you think they died?


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## macro junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

1/3 droped dead..what i cant understand is i had a few that died like this a month or 2 back..i find them at the bottom of the net cage..i pick them up and look at there body and it looks like there skin is dry..flaky..very odd?so im praying the 2 i have left is a pair or im screwed


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## mrblue (Jun 20, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> 1/3 droped dead..what i cant understand is i had a few that died like this a month or 2 back..i find them at the bottom of the net cage..i pick them up and look at there body and it looks like there skin is dry..flaky..very odd?so im praying the 2 i have left is a pair or im screwed


if i remember right you had two males and a female. got pics of the dead one?


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## macro junkie (Jun 20, 2008)

mrblue said:


> if i remember right you had two males and a female. got pics of the dead one?


yer and its my luck the dead one will be a female..il get pics for u in a bit.


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## macro junkie (Jun 21, 2008)

R.I.P


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## macro junkie (Jun 21, 2008)

full zoom


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## pohchunyee (Jun 21, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> did u have heat lamps?fed them on just flys?why do you think they died?


Feed them with Houseflies dusted with pollen + gut loaded with honey. Have heat lamp on in the morning and shut at night about 12 hours cycle (about 24 - 28'C ). Mist them 1X a day. They were so active and munching on houseflies, 2 days later they drop dead on the bottom of the cage.


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