# Hygrometers----again



## PhilinYuma (Nov 21, 2008)

Help, help!

Between 7a.m. and 2pm, my local humidity will drop from 36% to 12%. My mantises seem to have no trouble with this fluctuation, but I am having trouble with keeping crickets and fly pupae at the right humidity, and i would like to have a more accurate idea about my ooth pots. I have tried recording when I spray by marking my bathroom mirror with a felt tip pen, but I often forget to make a mark or even what the marks are for :huh: , so I have decided that I must have a hygrometer with a probe.

I can easily buy one on the internet (this one looks likely: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752554 ) but I would like to get a recommendation from an AMERICAN forum member. Most of the recommendations in the past have come from my countrymen, who seem to favor them much more than we U.S. residents do, but I don't want to import one. I checked Radio Shack, but their two least expensive ones got mediocre reviews.

This is not a question about the pros and cons of using a hygrometer, or even of living in the desert (!), simply a request for a specific recommendation from someone who has a good 'un, with probe. which cost, say, under $50.

Many thanx!


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## The_Asa (Nov 21, 2008)

By probe I assume you mean the attachment of a cord with a "probe" attached to the end of it? I bought a digital one for my roaches at Petsmart that is supposed to be accurate to 1.5F...10$... brand name is Zilla. But really this stuff doesn't have to be incredibly accurate unless you're raising some of the more difficult species, and spending more than 20$ on a hygrometer seems to be excessive.


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## Rick (Nov 21, 2008)

All I am going to say is I think it is not necessary. I have never used these and never had a need to. Mist every other day and leave it at that.


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## shorty (Nov 21, 2008)

Rick said:


> All I am going to say is I think it is not necessary. I have never used these and never had a need to. Mist every other day and leave it at that.


Yes, and use a substrate to hold in moisture as well.


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## PhilinYuma (Nov 21, 2008)

Rick and Shorty:

First, thanks for answering, once more, a question that has been asked again and again on this forum. I don't know what the ambient humidity is where you live, in "S.E. U.S", Rick, but I do know that when the humidity is 80% in Pittsburgh, tomorrow, Shorty, my humidity will be less than a fifth of that (the humidity in my apt is the same as that outside). To put it more simply, I keep my crickets in a 16"x12"x7" ventillated sweater box, with a 7"x7"x1" piece of foam for humidity. It becomes bone dry _three times a day _.

I have only three species of mantis at the moment, two of which are AZ residents, but I have no idea how badly I am failing to keep my Ghosts at anything approaching an apropriate humidity. They seem fine, but the only way that I will know whether or not I have done right by my Chinese and European ooths is whether they hatch or not; I would like to have some idea of the actual humidity under which I am keeping them.

That is why I specifically asked, not for the pros and cons of using a hygrometer, but one that an American member could recommend.

Thanx again, though, guys.


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## shorty (Nov 22, 2008)

PhilinYuma said:


> Rick and Shorty:First, thanks for answering, once more, a question that has been asked again and again on this forum. I don't know what the ambient humidity is where you live, in "S.E. U.S", Rick, but I do know that when the humidity is 80% in Pittsburgh, tomorrow, Shorty, my humidity will be less than a fifth of that (the humidity in my apt is the same as that outside). To put it more simply, I keep my crickets in a 16"x12"x7" ventillated sweater box, with a 7"x7"x1" piece of foam for humidity. It becomes bone dry _three times a day _.
> 
> I have only three species of mantis at the moment, two of which are AZ residents, but I have no idea how badly I am failing to keep my Ghosts at anything approaching an apropriate humidity. They seem fine, but the only way that I will know whether or not I have done right by my Chinese and European ooths is whether they hatch or not; I would like to have some idea of the actual humidity under which I am keeping them.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I couldn't recommend one to you as I have no experience using them. I'd just find one with good reviews that's at an affordable price. I looked around a bit and found this one for $16: http://www.freshmarine.com/exo-hygrometer-probe.html

I think it would work fine for what you need it for. I believe it's made by the same company that made the one in your original post. I don't think you really need to spend a ridiculous amount of money on one, but it may be necessary to use one with the humidity levels there. I guess living in Northwestern, PA I take it for granted. Hope this helps!


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## Rick (Nov 22, 2008)

PhilinYuma said:


> Rick and Shorty:First, thanks for answering, once more, a question that has been asked again and again on this forum. I don't know what the ambient humidity is where you live, in "S.E. U.S", Rick, but I do know that when the humidity is 80% in Pittsburgh, tomorrow, Shorty, my humidity will be less than a fifth of that (the humidity in my apt is the same as that outside). To put it more simply, I keep my crickets in a 16"x12"x7" ventillated sweater box, with a 7"x7"x1" piece of foam for humidity. It becomes bone dry _three times a day _.
> 
> I have only three species of mantis at the moment, two of which are AZ residents, but I have no idea how badly I am failing to keep my Ghosts at anything approaching an apropriate humidity. They seem fine, but the only way that I will know whether or not I have done right by my Chinese and European ooths is whether they hatch or not; I would like to have some idea of the actual humidity under which I am keeping them.
> 
> ...


Mist daily then? It is pretty dry indoors for most people. Use a substrate that will hold moisture and then keep it slightly damp. Nothing complicated about it. I think over time you will find what you need to do and won't need a gauge anymore. There are digital ones with a probe and there are little dial types. If you need one for every enclosure then go with the little cheap round ones. Most mantids I don't even use a substrate anymore but instead just mist them every other day. No issues really. In my personal opinion it is waste of money and time stressing over the level of humidity.


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## Orin (Nov 22, 2008)

I used one of the cheap ones from Radio Shack years ago and it seemed to give pretty decent and believable results. Unfortunately humidity results didn't offer any husbandry insight due to airflow and temperature differences. Keep in mind in PA it may be 80% humidity outside but the indoor humidity can be 5-10% due to the furnace.


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## Orin (Nov 22, 2008)

Rick said:


> Most mantids I don't even use a substrate anymore but instead just mist them every other day.


The problem with substrate is you can maintain an unnaturally high, stagnant humidity which the mantis adapts to and then you forget one watering and the mantis dehydrates in hours. If you've ever kept plants in glass covered terraria you'll have an analogy to how mantids and many other arboreal insects adapt to humidity. Constant high humidity without airflow causes weak growth and *extreme* sensitivity to fluctuations.


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## Katnapper (Nov 22, 2008)

Orin said:


> The problem with substrate is you can maintain an unnaturally high, stagnant humidity which the mantis adapts to and then you forget one watering and the mantis dehydrates in hours. If you've ever kept plants in glass covered terraria you'll have an analogy to how mantids and many other arboreal insects adapt to humidity. Constant high humidity without airflow causes weak growth and *extreme* sensitivity to fluctuations.


Thank you, Orin, for adding this. I have been struggling with the question of whether or not to add a substrate (humidity foam) to some of my containers, and this has helped immensely. I think instead of an "all or nothing" approach, I might try a compromise. I've had the idea instead of putting a layer of foam across the entire bottom of the container, just gluing down a smallish square of it so it comes in contact with the bottom and side. It would soak up any puddles that form from accidental overzealous spraying, and hold a little bit of moisture, but not too much. Still haven't made up my mind on it though. May just go with no substrate and mist as needed.


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## The_Asa (Nov 22, 2008)

I put down humidity foam only because it saves me from having to spray too often. I spray about 3 times a week and don't have any problems.


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## obregon562 (Nov 22, 2008)

if your looking for a decent humidifer-measuring unit, try Oregon Electronics or something like that. Thats what i use for my plants. Comes with a "mother unit" and two "probes". ~$50.

I think humidity foam is a god-send. It not only raises humidity, it creates a nice little pad if your babies fall, they can drink off of it, and it is super easy to wash! I highly recommend it!


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## shorty (Nov 22, 2008)

Orin said:


> The problem with substrate is you can maintain an unnaturally high, stagnant humidity which the mantis adapts to and then you forget one watering and the mantis dehydrates in hours. If you've ever kept plants in glass covered terraria you'll have an analogy to how mantids and many other arboreal insects adapt to humidity. Constant high humidity without airflow causes weak growth and *extreme* sensitivity to fluctuations.


I use sphagnum moss and mist every other day. Do you think this is too much? It doesn't seem to be causing problems as I don't see mold, the mantids look fine, and the moss is usually dry every time I mist. I just want to make sure it's not causing any harm or weak growth. Thanks for the information.


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## Orin (Nov 22, 2008)

shorty said:


> I use sphagnum moss and mist every other day. Do you think this is too much? It doesn't seem to be causing problems as I don't see mold, the mantids look fine, and the moss is usually dry every time I mist. I just want to make sure it's not causing any harm or weak growth. Thanks for the information.


If they're doing well I wouldn't change a thing.

If the substrate dries out quickly it's not holding a stagnant high humidity.


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## PhilinYuma (Nov 23, 2008)

Many thanks to all of you who took the time to answer this time worn question.

I don't much like using substrates. When I was breeding fish on a large scale, I used bare tanks, and I don't like frass any more than mulm, nor the fact that crickets and roaches have a habit of hiding under any substrate, including Rebecca's lovely pads, but this is just personal choice, probably influenced by early toilet training.

I am going to try a controlled humidifying system that I last used nearly fifty years ago for phasmids and the like. I shall bore a small hole in the back of the various plastic containers that I use, glue a small pot, like a Crystal Lite Pot below the hole (I have tried this today with no problems), fill it with water. and insert a wick through the hole so that part hangs down in the enclosure and the other end is placed in the water pot. This means that I can easily replenish the water without opening the enclosure, and I can control the humidity by lenthening or shortening the cotton wick inside the enclosure. When it looks worse for wear, I shall simply replace it. I shall still mist every day or two to provide the critters and their prey with small droplets of water. If anyone has tried this ancient sytem and has praise for or caveats about it, I would be very interested to hear your views.

I have even thought of a way of getting a hygrometer without having to buy one. I shall tell all of my family members and close friends on my Xmas shopping list that I am looking for one _with a probe_ (Listen up, Mija!). I shall probably end up with six, but that's got to be better than sox.


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## Katnapper (Nov 23, 2008)

Interesting, Phil. What will you use for cotton wicking?


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## Rick (Nov 23, 2008)

obregon562 said:


> if your looking for a decent humidifer-measuring unit, try Oregon Electronics or something like that. Thats what i use for my plants. Comes with a "mother unit" and two "probes". ~$50. I think humidity foam is a god-send. It not only raises humidity, it creates a nice little pad if your babies fall, they can drink off of it, and it is super easy to wash! I highly recommend it!


Same here for those with substrate. My techniques have worked well for me.


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## PhilinYuma (Nov 23, 2008)

Katnapper said:


> Interesting, Phil. What will you use for cotton wicking?


I went to Michael's, the craft store, and bought a roll of cotton batting designed for babies' cribs. I cut out a strip and tried it today, and can tell you with confidence that IT DOESN'T WORK!! I have since found an internet site that sells something called "fluid wicking," but I want to sulk for a day or two before I buy it. More in our next!


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## Katnapper (Nov 23, 2008)

PhilinYuma said:


> I went to Michael's, the craft store, and bought a roll of cotton batting designed for babies' cribs. I cut out a strip and tried it today, and can tell you with confidence that IT DOESN'T WORK!! I have since found an internet site that sells something called "fluid wicking," but I want to sulk for a day or two before I buy it. More in our next!


Hmmm... what about the lowly shoestring? Or maybe a nice thick boot lace? Already has a nice firm end to poke through the hole with too. Not sure about it's wicking qualities though.


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## PhilinYuma (Nov 24, 2008)

Katnapper said:


> Hmmm... what about the lowly shoestring? Or maybe a nice thick boot lace? Already has a nice firm end to poke through the hole with too. Not sure about it's wicking qualities though.


It works like a faucet, Katnapper. I put one regular-size shoelace in and it has created a small puddle inside the sweet (candy) jar in four hours. I had thought that the humidity gradient would drive the amount of water sucked into the enclosure, but the capillary action is much stronger. One answer is to just add a cc or two of water to the reservoir per day or use a kid's shoelace with multiple wicks per reservoir, but it means that I can't leave the house for a few days and expect a slow influx of water over that time. In that case, I'll probably just use a water pot with wood shavings in it. Again, this idea is not designed to change anyone's already successful practice, but I think that it will work well here in the desert. Are there no other desert dwellers on this forum? Perhaps they're all hanging out at Desert USA!

Does anyone want an almost complete roll of cotton batting, cheap?


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## kamakiri (Jan 12, 2009)

BTW, this hygrometer is now $17.99:

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752554

Living in the desert makes it diffucult to contol the humidity...how's the wicking working? What about using an oil lamp with a cotton wick?


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