# silkworm culture



## D_Hemptress (Apr 10, 2013)

Hello all! I was asked by another member to make a post about how to rear and keep silkworms for fun or as I do, feeders. Silkworms cannot bite or harm your animals because they have no sharp jaws or legs They cannot jump, escape or hide, unlike many other insects. No annoying sounds or odors, which I absolutely hate about crickets. Silkworms are a high source of Calcium, Protein, Iron, Magnesium, Sodium, and Vitamins B1, B2, and B3. Because of their high calcium content, silkworms are excellent for gravid females. Silkworms help gravid females to produce strong healthy eggs. Silkworms are also undemanding, only requiring a dry environment, no special containers or any water… They are so easy it’s almost ridiculous.




Recommendations for obtaining:

I ordered 50 micro worms from silkwormshop.com (I highly recommend them, a lot of the information being provided on this thread was obtained from their website, including several others.) as well as a1/2 lbs. of mulberry paste as recommended by the site. I did end up buying a lot more after the first purchase, so I would recommend purchasing a pound to start off with. I, personally, ended up feeding them a whole pound or more before they started to spin their cocoons.

Housing/Environment:

The worms were received in an 8oz deli cup with mulberry paste spread at the bottom (I was instructed to remove all the old food and replace with fresh paste. Which I did, but I’m not sure it was a necessity.) I believe, I was able to keep them in that 8ozer for a week or two before having to switch to a bigger Tupperware. Later, as they became crowded in the Tupperware moved them into a large cardboard box which I cut a square out of the lid and glued screen in its place. I put wax paper at the bottom of the enclosure so that the mulberry paste would not absorb into the paper. And for cleaning I would just remove the worms, take out the old dirty paper, replace, and put the worms back. Cleaning is only required ever few days at first. But as the silkworms grow larger their poo does as well. They also will poo more often as they are eating more, so you are going to want to do it more frequently, basically once a day.

I keep my box o’ worms in the living room next to my mantids and they do just dandy at room temperature. I’ve read on different sites that they have to be kept at certain temperatures at certain stages in their life. But I call bullshit on that one. When keeping them as a kid and now, I’ve kept them at room temperature with no problems.




Food/Feeding:

Silkworms have a very strict diet and will only eat mulberry leaves or mulberry paste.

I was advised to use a cheese grater to grate the food over the worms, but I don’t see how this would be done as the food is in a deli cup. What I ended up doing was, since the food is kept in the refrigerator it is firm enough for me to turn the cup over and use my feeding tongs to scrape bits evenly over the worms. Same effect, different process! *WINK* Now, on the other hand, when they are first born you cannot put the food directly on the worms. This will kill them. I read a great idea someone had on “thesilkwormshop.com”, saying to put the food into a syringe and make a very controlled line of food where ever I want it to be! This only needs to be done for the first 7-10 days after hatching. After that you can return to the sprinkle method. Be sure you have enough food to last you through their entire life cycle. Silkworms do not require water; all of their H2O are acquired from the leaves/paste. Excessive condensation forming in the container after feeding is the leading cause of failure. If this condensation does form, take the lid off your container and allow the container and old food to completely dry out. You want to wait for the old food to dry completely before adding fresh food. Old damp food is a breeding ground for mold and other problems, dry food is not.

Life Cycle:

Silkworms have three distinct morphological stages; larva, pupa and adult. After hatching from the egg, larvae go through four molts as they grow. During each molt, the old skin is cast off and a new, larger one is produced. The silk worm larval life is divided into five instars, separated by four molts. Under ideal conditions (78° to 88° F and allowed to feed nearly continuously) silkworms can go from egg to 1 inch in length in about 12 days, and 3 inches in under 30 days. The worms will begin to spin cocoons at about 28 - 30 days old or when they are between 2 1/2 and 3 inches long. When they start spinning cocoons they will start eating less, and once they start their cocoon they will never eat again! When you think that you worms are getting close to making their cocoons put toilet paper rolls or what I used was egg carton in with them. Once they are completely done with the cocoon you will be able you shake it and hear them rattling around inside. Silkworm moths emerge from their cocoons after spending about two to three weeks metamorphosing. As moths, they do not eat or fly. They will usually mate, lay eggs and die within a week. Fertile eggs turn from yellow to gray or purple in a week or so. 



Breeding:

Breeding silkworms is actually extremely easy. Pheromones are released by female moths and the males detect the chemicals with olfactory hairs on their antennae. This allows the male to find the female for mating. Before the moths emerged from their cocoons I put each individual cocoon in an egg carton where the egg would usually go. After they had emerged I removed the cocoon from the box. While they were mating (you will see them connect and stay attached for several hours) I made sure to put a mark on their wings to ensure that I didn’t feed one my mantids that hadn’t had a chance to mate. The eggs will be laid on the egg carton. It may take a few days for the eggs to change color. Eggs can be kept in the freezer until you are ready for them to hatch. I haven’t read this anywhere but I used to do this when I was kid, so I know its fine. If kept around 80degrees they should hatch in about a week or two.


----------



## Bug Trader (Apr 10, 2013)

Be carefull when hatching silkworm eggs they are very delicate, temp fluctuations will kill them they are very delicate for a while.


----------



## D_Hemptress (Apr 10, 2013)

Bug Trader said:


> Be carefull when hatching silkworm eggs they are very delicate, temp fluctuations will kill them they are very delicate for a while.


yes i know, i mentioned that in the feeding section, 7 to 10 after hatching they arent as vulnerable


----------



## Bug Trader (Apr 10, 2013)

They are very underappreciated in this hobby, nice write up.


----------



## Introvertebrate (Apr 10, 2013)

Great synopsis. Is the mulberry medium reasonably priced?


----------



## D_Hemptress (Apr 10, 2013)

Introvertebrate said:


> Great synopsis. Is the mulberry medium reasonably priced?


i honestly do not remember how much it was. but its alot cheaper to by a powder and make it yourself. which the website does offer. when it comes to ordering more this time im going to buy it in bulk and just make it myself


----------



## Introvertebrate (Apr 10, 2013)

$169 worth of powder makes 40 lbs of food. I guess that would last a while.


----------



## frogparty (Apr 10, 2013)

Just wish the adults were larger. I'll stick to sphinx moths/hornworms. Get a MUCH larger flying adult.


----------



## D_Hemptress (Apr 10, 2013)

Introvertebrate said:


> $169 worth of powder makes 40 lbs of food. I guess that would last a while.


lol holycrap, ya i dont see myself needing that much unless i plan to do this for the rest of my life lol


----------



## Introvertebrate (Apr 10, 2013)

That caterpillar on her finger looks pretty big.


----------



## Introvertebrate (Apr 10, 2013)

D_Hemptress said:


> lol holycrap, ya i dont see myself needing that much unless i plan to do this for the rest of my life lol


I was thinking in terms of a long-term feeder source for mantids, tarantulas, etc..


----------



## frogparty (Apr 10, 2013)

Nah, I've fed adult caterpillars to Hymenopus and Deroplatys


----------



## aychen222 (Apr 10, 2013)

frogparty said:


> Just wish the adults were larger. I'll stick to sphinx moths/hornworms. Get a MUCH larger flying adult.


Do you culture these???


----------



## Malakyoma (Apr 10, 2013)

So at what point do you feed the moths off? I imagine feeding them too early wouldnt let the female have a chance to lay, unless you only feed males. In that case how do you tell which is male and which is female?

If I wanted to get these on a cycle that I always had moths available to feed, what kind of setup do you think I would need?


----------



## frogparty (Apr 10, 2013)

Hornworms are easy to culture. The sphinx moths I'm working on


----------



## aychen222 (Apr 10, 2013)

How large are the adults? And what is the diet for this sp like?


----------



## frogparty (Apr 10, 2013)

I have pics posted of adult Hymenopus eating one eyed sphinx moths. They are large, fat moths! White lined sphinx moths are smaller, but still nearly 2x as large as adult silk moths


----------



## Malakyoma (Apr 10, 2013)

frogparty said:


> I have pics posted of adult Hymenopus eating one eyed sphinx moths. They are large, fat moths! White lined sphinx moths are smaller, but still nearly 2x as large as adult silk moths


If they're so much better why don't you post a guide on how you're culturing them then? D made this guide for those of use that hadn't raised moths before and all I'm seeing is you talking about how much better sphinx moths are, so prove it, and let those of us interested in silks have D's thread please.


----------



## aNisip (Apr 10, 2013)

frogparty said:


> Hornworms are easy to culture. The sphinx moths I'm working on


Would you mind doing a little write up for how you culture your hornworms?

Hemp, awesome write up! ....however, one question; when u talk abt feeding and such....you say to sprinkle the food on them...but on the bottom you have wax paper, can u just line the paper with paste? (A section of it)


----------



## Bug Trader (Apr 10, 2013)

frogparty said:


> Hornworms are easy to culture. The sphinx moths I'm working on





Malakyoma said:


> If they're so much better why don't you post a guide on how you're culturing them then? D made this guide for those of use that hadn't raised moths before and all I'm seeing is you talking about how much better sphinx moths are, so prove it, and let those of us interested in silks have D's thread please.


They are bigger moths, which means they need less meals and he just said he's working on it. Im sure he wasn't downing the silkworms or their use.........


----------



## sally (Apr 10, 2013)

Thank you for the wonderful information D. I am def going to give the silkworms a try.


----------



## D_Hemptress (Apr 10, 2013)

Malakyoma said:


> So at what point do you feed the moths off? I imagine feeding them too early wouldnt let the female have a chance to lay, unless you only feed males. In that case how do you tell which is male and which is female?
> 
> If I wanted to get these on a cycle that I always had moths available to feed, what kind of setup do you think I would need?


i mark one wing on the moth when it is mating and then i mark the second wing when i see them laying their eggs, the next day i feed them off. i have a hard time telling the difference sometimes. but the males are much more active with smaller wings and larger antennae. as far are getting a culture going... im just starting myself. but i put a picture above of how box i use and when my eggs hatch im probably going to want to have two containers for them to make cleaning easier.


----------



## D_Hemptress (Apr 10, 2013)

Malakyoma said:


> If they're so much better why don't you post a guide on how you're culturing them then? D made this guide for those of use that hadn't raised moths before and all I'm seeing is you talking about how much better sphinx moths are, so prove it, and let those of us interested in silks have D's thread please.


okay now calm down. when it comes to have much larger mantids you may want much larger moths. the nutrition value is the same and the process is basically the same. but silk moths are big and plenty enough for even my Tenedora gal. sh gets one and a couple flies and she is done for the day.


----------



## D_Hemptress (Apr 10, 2013)

AndrewNisip said:


> Would you mind doing a little write up for how you culture your hornworms?
> 
> Hemp, awesome write up! ....however, one question; when u talk abt feeding and such....you say to sprinkle the food on them...but on the bottom you have wax paper, can u just line the paper with paste? (A section of it)


good question, and this i did do at first because thats how i received them. but it goes bad before it has time to dry out and starts to grow mold much quicker.


----------



## D_Hemptress (Apr 10, 2013)

sally said:


> Thank you for the wonderful information D. I am def going to give the silkworms a try.


give your thanks you's to ScienceGirl. it was all her idea she gave me a list of questions that she had so i could write this


----------



## frogparty (Apr 10, 2013)

The hornworms were purchased as a feeder kit from smallpetfeeders.com, and I just bought the food and followed the instructions. These same techniques I am currently trying to augment for white lines sphinx moths and one eyed sphinx moths. White lineds are interesting in that they're hummingbird moths, and the adults drink nectar and live quite a long time.


----------



## D_Hemptress (Apr 10, 2013)

frogparty said:


> The hornworms were purchased as a feeder kit from smallpetfeeders.com, and I just bought the food and followed the instructions. These same techniques I am currently trying to augment for white lines sphinx moths and one eyed sphinx moths. White lineds are interesting in that they're hummingbird moths, and the adults drink nectar and live quite a long time.


that is a serious plus for the spynx moth! silk moths do not eat. they mate, they die!

oh ya, now stop hogging my feed. make your own thread homie! :gun_bandana:


----------



## Malakyoma (Apr 10, 2013)

D_Hemptress said:


> that is a serious plus for the spynx moth! silk moths do not eat. they mate, they die!
> 
> oh ya, now stop hogging my feed. make your own thread homie! :gun_bandana:


thats what I said


----------



## D_Hemptress (Apr 10, 2013)

Malakyoma said:


> thats what I said


 :tt2:


----------



## patrickfraser (Apr 10, 2013)

when i had silkworms turn into moths, I would place mating pairs in 3.5oz cups with paper towel under the lid and flipped it upside down into a mating chamber. Once they "disengage", I remove the male (feed him off if no more females need him) and leave the female to lay her eggs. Once she lays her eggs, she'sremoved, fed off, and the eggs are left out until they turn grey. The "pod" is then placed in the refrigerator for diapause. The little container then makes for a nice incubation and hatching chamber once they've been removed from the refrigerator after about a month or longer(I think?). I don't know how long the eggs can be kept without hatching being affected.

I might want some silkworm eggs if you happen to have any extras. My last batch didn't do well and died off when feeding chow. I don't do well with the chow, but the mulberry trees are getting leaves and I might want to try them again.


----------



## D_Hemptress (Apr 10, 2013)

patrickfraser said:


> when i had silkworms turn into moths, I would place mating pairs in 3.5oz cups with paper towel under the lid and flipped it upside down into a mating chamber. Once they "disengage", I remove the male (feed him off if no more females need him) and leave the female to lay her eggs. Once she lays her eggs, she'sremoved, fed off, and the eggs are left out until they turn grey. The "pod" is then placed in the refrigerator for diapause. The little container then makes for a nice incubation and hatching chamber once they've been removed from the refrigerator after about a month or longer(I think?). I don't know how long the eggs can be kept without hatching being affected.
> 
> I might want some silkworm eggs if you happen to have any extras. My last batch didn't do well and died off when feeding chow. I don't do well with the chow, but the mulberry trees are getting leaves and I might want to try them again.


sorry im just getting my culture started do i dont have any to spare. sorry or i totally would.

the way you were saying you do things sounds like more work than necessary.

when i was a kid we used to keep the eggs in the freezer all year until the leaves started coming in on the trees . then we just took them out


----------



## frogparty (Apr 10, 2013)

When I had mulberry trees in WA it seemed much easier. Hence my desire for sphinx moths that feed on willow, sweet gum, oak, lupin etc all of which grow outside my door

It took me a long time to learn to not over feed the worms. Caused me a lot of issues using the chow.


----------



## ScienceGirl (Apr 10, 2013)

Thank you for posting this! It looks great!

Some other questions that I also had:


How long approximately does each live stage take?
What do the adult moths eat?
Where can we find mulberry leaves? What does the plant look like? Where can we buy them?


----------



## patrickfraser (Apr 10, 2013)

D_Hemptress said:


> sorry im just getting my culture started do i dont have any to spare. sorry or i totally would.
> 
> the way you were saying you do things sounds like more work than necessary.
> 
> when i was a kid we used to keep the eggs in the freezer all year until the leaves started coming in on the trees . then we just took them out


I found it easier to deal with one group of eggs at a time, because if the moths are left together they all lay eggs all over the place. The cups just keep them separate and easier to track. I write dates on the cups of laying date and when putting in the fridge. First in, first out. IIt actually isn't much extra work, but to each his/her own.


----------



## D_Hemptress (Apr 11, 2013)

ScienceGirl said:


> Thank you for posting this! It looks great!
> 
> Some other questions that I also had:
> 
> ...


this is all the info i have. and more will have to be done over time with trial and error.


Under ideal conditions (78° to 88° F and allowed to feed nearly continuously) silkworms can go from egg to 1 inch in length in about 12 days, and 3 inches in under 30 days. The worms will begin to spin cocoons at about 28 - 30 days old or when they are between 2 1/2 and 3 inches long. and they are in the cocoon for about two weeks
moths do not eat! they mate then they die!
the mulberry tree, i have no idea where is the best place to find them, i know of a tree at my elementary school that i went to. but right now there arent any leaves so i ordered the paste via the website


----------



## D_Hemptress (Apr 11, 2013)

patrickfraser said:


> I found it easier to deal with one group of eggs at a time, because if the moths are left together they all lay eggs all over the place. The cups just keep them separate and easier to track. I write dates on the cups of laying date and when putting in the fridge. First in, first out. IIt actually isn't much extra work, but to each his/her own.


that sounds much, much more organized to say the least


----------



## Bug Trader (Apr 11, 2013)

I removed mine to cups for breeding as well. Then when ready to hatch I just layed the lids of eggs into an incubator to hatch, I am about to grab up another 10,000 zebra silkworm eggs Patrick if you need some.


----------



## Sticky (May 6, 2013)

I raised some afew years ago and made silk paper with them. There is a yahoo group for silkworm raisers and the owner showed us how to do it. Sadly the site he had that showed how to do it no longer has the piece about it. It is a blog of some .

He does have a site of his own he started long before that is wonderful. It is www.wormspit.com. There is other info about reeling and cocoon prep.

To get back to feeding them to pets and such, Im sure they must be fun for the mantids. I have not tried it on my girls yet but I will this year. Before I had mantids I had fun giving the moths to my outside birds. Its funny watching chickadees carry them off. They know they found a treasure!


----------



## fleurdejoo (May 12, 2013)

Sold! I just ordered them!

This is a great thread!


----------



## angelofdeathzz (May 12, 2013)

Great info! I just wanna know who's going to make me a silk shirt(44-46 long)


----------



## fleurdejoo (May 17, 2013)

Ok so here they are. Really surprised at how fast they grow! I mean over night you can tell they're bigger.

I need to clean this container out I know.

The grater that comes with this is a joke. I mean the stuff is way too wet to grate. I did what you said except with a fork.

Will have to get the bigger box set up like yours tamale. Thanks so much for the thread! This was way fun and I really like these guys.


----------



## D_Hemptress (May 18, 2013)

fleurdejoo said:


> Ok so here they are. Really surprised at how fast they grow! I mean over night you can tell they're bigger.
> 
> I need to clean this container out I know.
> 
> ...


well done!


----------



## Sticky (May 20, 2013)

I love how gentle they are. They are so innocent. Do yours t a lk to you? Mine did. When they run out of food they do a "feed me" dance. They stand up and wave their body in the air back and forth. They are talking to you!


----------



## fleurdejoo (May 20, 2013)

Agreed, very sweet. I have noticed the feed me dance! Very cute.


----------



## fleurdejoo (May 30, 2013)

So how can you tell if they are getting ready to spin a cocoon?


----------



## D_Hemptress (May 30, 2013)

they will be huge, the one on my hand in the pictures spun its cocoon a day or two after



fleurdejoo said:


> So how can you tell if they are getting ready to spin a cocoon?


----------



## Scruffy Aphid Herder (May 30, 2013)

Cute enough to feed alive to your mantids ?


----------



## D_Hemptress (May 30, 2013)

Scruffy Aphid Herder said:


> Cute enough to feed alive to your mantids ?


its the circle of life! (singing in my best lion king voice with one hand on my chest and the other in the air) lol


----------



## fleurdejoo (May 30, 2013)

Yeah I try to keep the circle in mind.

Should I put an egg carton thingie in there kind of diagonally?

I saw a chick who raises these online and she had one like that.


----------



## D_Hemptress (May 30, 2013)

the only reason i wouldnt use them until they are ready to lay is becasue the food will get it all soggy


----------



## fleurdejoo (May 30, 2013)

Well one of them is starting to spin a cocoon and I didn't realize it and had started to move it.

I feel like they are all so tangled up in there, they're going to be caught on each other.


----------



## Sticky (May 31, 2013)

fleurdejoo said:


> So how can you tell if they are getting ready to spin a cocoon?


They do what is called a "gut dump". It looks like a serious case of diarrhea. I find it more dramatic in the wild ones. It looks scary but they are fine. Of course they stop eating then go "walk-about." Watch them carefully or you will find cocoons in the funniest places!


----------



## fleurdejoo (May 31, 2013)

So it's normal for there to be filaments entangling some of them?

One of them crawled up the side of the box and started spinning stuff.

But this morning there are just one or two places on the sides that are cobwebby.


----------



## D_Hemptress (May 31, 2013)

if they are starting to spin it wnt hurt to put some egg carton in there. otherwise they will use the corners of the box


----------



## fleurdejoo (May 31, 2013)

First cocoon!


----------



## fleurdejoo (Jun 1, 2013)

Question for D.Hemptress, are these guys too crowded?


----------



## D_Hemptress (Jun 1, 2013)

looks like plenty of space to me.....


----------



## Introvertebrate (Jun 8, 2013)

One of my favorite nerdy websites.


----------

