# Beekeeping



## ScienceGirl

Officially a beekeeper!

We picked up the girls last night in a nucleus. The workers are all aurora's (a hawaiian hybrid) and the queen was replaced with one from Carniolan stock. They are currently in a nuc (nucleus hive = small version of a standard langstroth hive, same height and length, width is just smaller) and will be moved into a standard Langstroth hive the weekend after this, if they have adequate numbers.

I'll be posting more and showing pictures, too!

-ScienceGirl


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## MandellaMandy123

Congratulations! I've always kind of wanted to keep bees. I'm not quite brave enough though...


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## ScienceGirl

WolfPuppy said:


> Congratulations! I've always kind of wanted to keep bees. I'm not quite brave enough though...


Haha! I'm sure that you could do it if you're interested!!!

I worked with bees for the first time in August, alongside an experienced beekeeper is a big name in the pollination business (agriculture in the US is a 1.5 billion dollar industry. Farmers want every blossom to produce and to guarentee a bountiful harvest, so pollinating beekeepers are contacted.) I wore a bee-suit then, but was still nervous for the first 10 minutes. Then, even though the bees were flying everywhere, I was pretty calm. I've only been stung once, and that was on perpose so we could be sure I wasn't allergic before I took the nucleus home.

When we picked up the nuc, there were hundreds of hives at the beeyard and it was a sunny day, so there were thousands of bees in the air. He didn't even wear a suit, and I didn't receive mine until later. Now I'm much calmer and I've been sitting 2-ish feet away from the hive, watching their comings and goings and noting the color of pollen in their baskets. :donatello:


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## aNisip

I am so jealous! I have always wanted to be a beekeeper but city restrictions because I could get blamed for stings to ppl. I'm not afraidof them at all and always freak out my ffriends when they seem me almost touching a bee as its pollinating and they're freaking out...

Your going to use wax, right? (Or plastic) for the grids...

Keep us updated with pictures (like u said above↑↑↑!!!) I still am very interested in bees ^-^

All the best beginning beekeeper!

Cheers,

Andrew


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## lancaster1313

I am interested as well. It seems that no one here in Pompano Beach keeps bees. I hope it is not some law, cause I would like to one day.

Andrew, you don't touch the bees?  I pet bees all the time. I have been doing it since I was a child. Mostly they don't care when they are busy on or in a flower. As long as they don't feel trapped, they will put up with the molestation. My daughter was stung a couple of times because she got carried away and grabbed a couple bees. Some like to learn the hard way. lol

The only time I was stung by one was when I accidentally stepped on it when I was barefoot.


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## aNisip

likebugs said:


> I am interested as well. It seems that no one here in Pompano Beach keeps bees. I hope it is not some law, cause I would like to one day.
> 
> Andrew, you don't touch the bees?  I pet bees all the time. I have been doing it since I was a child. Mostly they don't care when they are busy on or in a flower. As long as they don't feel trapped, they will put up with the molestation. My daughter was stung a couple of times because she got carried away and grabbed a couple bees. Some like to learn the hard way. lol
> 
> The only time I was stung by one was when I accidentally stepped on it when I was barefoot.


I will pet them, when my friends aren't there to stop me  I love putting honey on my finger and going up to bees and letting them lap the honey off my finger (I once had 6bees eating the liquid gold)


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## lancaster1313

I like to feed honey to any of the lost bees or wasps that end up wandering onto my porch or driveway. They seem to just walk around aimlessly so I will feed them. Many of them fly away after their treat, even if they were just walking before. Maybe they are just worn out when I find them?


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## ScienceGirl

Yes, I loved petting bumblebees, those plump and fuzzy little flying tanks.  Right now I'm working on being okay with honey bees landing on my face. You can't swat them away (it causes "purple/black" light that they see and attack), so I just wait until they fly off. Since I'm sitting to the side of _their _hive entrence, it's really my fault for blocking them if they land on me. ^_^


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## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> Officially a beekeeper!
> 
> We picked up the girls last night in a nucleus. The workers are all aurora's (a hawaiian hybrid) and the queen was replaced with one from Carniolan stock. They are currently in a nuc (nucleus hive = small version of a standard langstroth hive, same height and length, width is just smaller) and will be moved into a standard Langstroth hive the weekend after this, if they have adequate numbers.
> 
> I'll be posting more and showing pictures, too!
> 
> -ScienceGirl


Good going! My bees should be here in a couple of weeks, but I'm starting from package bees. All the nucs in this area were sold out. You lucky devil  . Post pics if you can. I'd like to see your bees and setup.


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## ScienceGirl

jamurfjr said:


> Good going! My bees should be here in a couple of weeks, but I'm starting from package bees. All the nucs in this area were sold out. You lucky devil  . Post pics if you can. I'd like to see your bees and setup.


Haha! Oh yes, planning on posting pictures, just as soon as I get them uploaded. Lots of things will be changed as my equiptment comes in. We put in a fence around the nucleus today and hacked at the blackberry vines. We reclaimed quite a bit of earth from the brambles today! Hoping that it will be easy to manage the weeds once we put barkdust down.

I'll be posting updates and pictures soon! Keep me updated as well, and I love chatting with you guys!


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## ScienceGirl

Trying to track down supplies and comparing prices from three different companies. One of them has way higher priced items than the others. $47.50 for a screened bottom board!? $41.50 for a 4x10 smoker!?

I wonder how much business they get... :blink:


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## ScienceGirl

jamurfjr said:


> Good going! My bees should be here in a couple of weeks, but I'm starting from package bees. All the nucs in this area were sold out. You lucky devil  . Post pics if you can. I'd like to see your bees and setup.


How did you get the 100 dollars off? Was there a coupon code? Is it over?


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## jamurfjr

My bees (two packages w/ marked queens) are coming through my bee assoc. and cost me $76 a package. I bought my hives and equipment (over 150lbs) from Mann Lake and the order qualified for free shipping which saved a bunch.


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## Rick

Awesome. Really warm here yesterday and my bees were very busy.


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## ScienceGirl

Rick said:


> Awesome. Really warm here yesterday and my bees were very busy.


Mine has been busy ever since we got them, too! The days have been sunny and hot, lately, strange for March/early April... Global warming? Yesterday felt like it reached 90 degrees F! The only thing that I can see in bloom are dandelions, but the foragers are returning with sometimes bulging baskets (uneven lumps the size of a bb gun pellet) of pollen in four distinct colors: light green/yellow, light yellow, bright yellow, and orange. Hmmm... Well, if they're finding protein, I'm more than happy! :clap: 

The best foraging weather includes:


wind less than 15 mph
sunny and warm, no rain
temperatures over 60 degrees F (some breeds of bees forage in lower temps, like Carniolans)
“Bees do have a smell, you know, and if they don’t they should, for their feet are dusted with spices from a million flowers.” Ray Bradbury, _Dandelion Wine _


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## ScienceGirl

Yesterday I saw a drone fly out of the Carniolan nuc. I almost died laughing.

The big tank swaggered out onto the landing board, pushing the workers out of his way. Once he made it to the edge, he flew up a couple inches . . . then fell on his back on the landing board.   After righting himself, he managed to fly up and away, sounding much louder than the foragers when they buzz off.

I heard him before I saw him when he came home. ^_^ Not very stealthy, those drones, but quite necessary! They get a bad rap, but are good for an exclusive job: mating.


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## aNisip

Wished u gotta vid of that! They are so clumsy! Its really funny to watch them!


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## ScienceGirl

AndrewNisip said:


> Wished u gotta vid of that! They are so clumsy! Its really funny to watch them!


Haha, yes!!! And when they come back to land, they don't wait their turn and hover in the air, like the workers. Nope - it somebee's in their way, they can move or be moved, cause they're making a landing! :donatello: 

I took videos on their first day out of the hive, along with some pictures. I'm going to post them once I download the memory card. Planning on taking some footage of them tomorrow, since there is a big difference in the amount of foragers and the busyness between now and their first day.


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## ScienceGirl

I've noticed another survival skill. While hovering and circling above their water source, foragers, if they see another honey bee, may land on top of or almost on top of that honey bee. It makes sense, because there is only so many footholds on or next to the water source, and if you don't land on dry land, you may drown. It's quite comical when the surprised bee that got landed on shoots up a foot in the air in surprise before gliding back down.

Some of them are very good flyers, and can hover right above where they plan to land. Others, though, must circle and circle and come down swooping.

My returning foragers hover in front of the entrance (for the nucleus, it's a single hole a bit larger than a quarter). They prefer shooting straight in to stepping onto the landing board and crawling in. What special flying tricks honey bees have! B)


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## ScienceGirl

Mixed up some sugar syrup for the girls today. You should keep it on them for as long as they'll take it. If there is a honeyflow, they won't need it, and therefore won't take it if they don't need it as they will be gathering nectar with good things for them in it. It should be changed about once a week to keep it fresh and from fermenting or crystalizing, or sooner if you are experiencing very warm weather. Check your feeder to make sure that it doesn't get plugged up by debris or crystalized, so that the syrup is accessable to your bees.

Make syrup:

Ratio I used: Sugar : Water 2:1

Heat up water on the stove, but keep it under boiling. Add sugar as water that you used. Stir until dissolved completely. Feed using the syrup feeder of your choice.

WARNING: If the sugar burns or carmelizes, dispose of it. It will make the bees sick - more on that later.


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## Rick

Why are you feeding 2:1 in spring? Normally that mix is reserved for fall emergency feeding. I do 1:1 which ends up being 2 qts of water to 5 lbs of sugar. Make sure you're using cane sugar and not beet sugar! And are you not adding fresh lemon to invert the sugar? If not you're actually feeding them the wrong type of sugar.

I saw some drones the other day. Can always hear them before I see them. I need to get into my hive and take a look. Haven't looked in there since last fall. I agree that the drones are comical to watch for sure. I probably also need to go ahead and take the mouse guards off the entrances. Getting pretty crowded there now.


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## ScienceGirl

Rick said:


> Why are you feeding 2:1 in spring? Normally that mix is reserved for fall emergency feeding. I do 1:1 which ends up being 2 qts of water to 5 lbs of sugar. Make sure you're using cane sugar and not beet sugar! And are you not adding fresh lemon to invert the sugar? If not you're actually feeding them the wrong type of sugar.
> 
> I saw some drones the other day. Can always hear them before I see them. I need to get into my hive and take a look. Haven't looked in there since last fall. I agree that the drones are comical to watch for sure. I probably also need to go ahead and take the mouse guards off the entrances. Getting pretty crowded there now.


I'm just following what my beekeeper professional connection told me. It is 1:1 if you are measuring water by volume and the sugar by weight; I find it easier to whip up a batch of syrup without a scale to measure the sugars weight. By using volume for both sugar and water, the recipe becomes 2:1 sugar:water, as sugar is denser than water. This is what he feeds his bees. I'll try some other stuff as I become a more experienced beekeeper (if beekeeping were simply a written test, I'd get an A just from reading my many, many books!), but as my girls' days are numbered as they try to build their colony, I'm following his directions for now. My bees are only big enough for a nucleus right now - but their numbers are bound to explode any day now, as a new queen had been put in at the beginning of March.

Lemon?... I've never heard of this. Where did you hear about it, and can you explain what inverted sugar is and what it does?

I'm going to add more to the sugar making instructions later. Yes, I used cane sugar. Granulated white.


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## Rick

ScienceGirl said:


> I'm just following what my beekeeper professional connection told me. It is 1:1 if you are measuring water by volume and the sugar by weight; I find it easier to whip up a batch of syrup without a scale to measure the sugars weight. By using volume for both sugar and water, the recipe becomes 2:1 sugar:water, as sugar is denser than water. This is what he feeds his bees. I'll try some other stuff as I become a more experienced beekeeper (if beekeeping were simply a written test, I'd get an A just from reading my many, many books!), but as my girls' days are numbered as they try to build their colony, I'm following his directions for now. My bees are only big enough for a nucleus right now - but their numbers are bound to explode any day now, as a new queen had been put in at the beginning of March.
> 
> Lemon?... I've never heard of this. Where did you hear about it, and can you explain what inverted sugar is and what it does?
> 
> I'm going to add more to the sugar making instructions later. Yes, I used cane sugar. Granulated white.


Well I am not going to tell you to go against the advice of your mentor, but what I posted seems to be what everybody I know does as well as those over at the natural beekeeping network. I do the 1:1, 1lb sugar to 1 lb water. 2:1 is for fall emergency feeding which would be twice the amount of sugar to water. But then again there may be regional differences.

Here is the wicki page about inverting sugar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_sugar_syrup

Doing a little searching I see some people don't agree with inverting by acid (lemon juice). I never heard of that when I started so just kept doing it. It doesn't seem to matter in my bees. I have very very strong colonies. So I would go with whatever your mentor says. My mentor inverts his sugar and I'll continue doing so.


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## ScienceGirl

My beekeeping order came today, so my part-time apiary weekly to-do list includes: coating the two screened bottom boards, coating a hive body, and after all of that comes moving the colony into the full sized langstroth hive.

Rick, how come you are moving away from topbar?

I saw a foragers trying to fly today. She kept trying to fly and made a few inches before plummeting to the ground many times. Turned out that there were three wax scales stuck on her wings. I gave her a lift to the entrance before I had to go.

__________________________________________

Hobby beekeepers have come to be known as part-time beekeepers or small-scale beekeepers. The government doesn't offer money for hobbies, but it does for the pollinators that our lives depend on. Without pollinators there would be less produce for us and less meat, because livestock consume plants pollinated by bees. Grains must be pollinated and grasses must be pollinated for seeds to grow more grains. All of us small-scale beekeepers should wear our labels proudly! :batman:


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## ScienceGirl

Here is a video of an observation hive that I found while searching for honey bee videos. The footage is clear and easy to see. The things that they captured are INCREDIBLE from an observation hive, because you can see the bees at work doing what they ordinary do. They are not disturbed with smoke for footage, as the walls are glass.

I am not the producer of the film, nor do I suggest their products, as I have never used them and I just wanted to share these amazing candid clips from inside a honey bee colony with you. This is actually a long and well made video, though, and I haven't seen one this good of the actions inside a hive before - NOVA's "Secrets from Inside the Hive" doesn't count, but get that video from Netfilx! It is very cool footage, and shows a mating flight of a virgin queen, too, along with other things.

In the youtube video is: a "bee dance," where returning forager bees do a waggle dance to show where they found nectar, pollen, or water. They will offer other bees "samples" of what they found to entice them, and interested bees will follow them in the dance to get directions.

A queen laying eggs.

Workers sharing nectar and honey.

And more....  

Link:

Or search "A guided tour of a honey bee observation hive" into the YouTube search engine.


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## sally

That was a wonderful video! I can imagine having an observation hive in my house. That would be truly amazing.


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## Rick

ScienceGirl said:


> Rick, how come you are moving away from topbar?


Both have pros and cons. I get tired of trying to correct comb. I think we determined that the plans we used for these initial hives were incorrect as far as bar width goes which contributes to incorrect building of comb. My first hive started off great in the brood area, but the honeycomb often gets jacked up as they build it. I looked into that hive this past weekend and they haven't built anything new yet.


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## ScienceGirl

Rick said:


> Both have pros and cons. I get tired of trying to correct comb. I think we determined that the plans we used for these initial hives were incorrect as far as bar width goes which contributes to incorrect building of comb. My first hive started off great in the brood area, but the honeycomb often gets jacked up as they build it. I looked into that hive this past weekend and they haven't built anything new yet.


Oh. Did you know about beespace when you built them? Do you put foundation bars to start them off in it?


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## ScienceGirl

sally said:


> That was a wonderful video! I can imagine having an observation hive in my house. That would be truly amazing.


Yes, haha! And an interesting conversation piece....  

I have no idea how they inspect them, though, and take it apart to correct problems... Would the bees get all over your house? I tried searching for answers, but nothing came up in Google. Let me know if you end up getting one, or find out more!


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## Rick

ScienceGirl said:


> Oh. Did you know about beespace when you built them? Do you put foundation bars to start them off in it?


My friend had the plans. I knew nothing of bees at the time so I followed his lead. We built several hives and most had the issue. The top bars have a foundation strip but it appears it should be a bit wider.

Here are a few pics and a vid from this past weekend of one hive. My bees are active almost year round. If it hits 40 F they will become active, we have many days in the dead of winter that reach that temperature. It has really warmed up now into the 80's so these girls are very busy. Vid is best with sound on:


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## jamurfjr

Wow, yes, those girls are busy. Thanks for the vid. I'm still waiting on my bees.


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## ScienceGirl

Rick said:


> My friend had the plans. I knew nothing of bees at the time so I followed his lead. We built several hives and most had the issue. The top bars have a foundation strip but it appears it should be a bit wider.
> 
> Here are a few pics and a vid from this past weekend of one hive. My bees are active almost year round. If it hits 40 F they will become active, we have many days in the dead of winter that reach that temperature. It has really warmed up now into the 80's so these girls are very busy. Vid is best with sound on:


Very cool! Thanks for sharing! What a lovely topbar hive, and what a strong looking colony! Those look like Italian bees- do you know their species?



jamurfjr said:


> Wow, yes, those girls are busy. Thanks for the vid. I'm still waiting on my bees.


Nice! What species are you getting? When are they expected to arrive?


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## ScienceGirl

Just came back from painting a screened bottom board and two hive bodies white. We also built a beautiful hivestand. Pictures and instructions to come!


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## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> Very cool! Thanks for sharing! What a lovely topbar hive, and what a strong looking colony! Those look like Italian bees- do you know their species?
> 
> Nice! What species are you getting? When are they expected to arrive?


Italians like-eh half-eh my ancestry.


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## Rick

ScienceGirl said:


> Very cool! Thanks for sharing! What a lovely topbar hive, and what a strong looking colony! Those look like Italian bees- do you know their species?
> 
> Nice! What species are you getting? When are they expected to arrive?


I believe they are. Don't really recall. Wasn't sure you could tell by just looking at them.


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## ScienceGirl

Rick said:


> I believe they are. Don't really recall. Wasn't sure you could tell by just looking at them.


You can't ever be completely sure, as unless you have purchased an expensive inseminated queen, the possibilities of cross-breeding are many. The coloring does look like Italians, though. Gold on the upper abdomen, black on the lower and end... Another species with that coloration is Auroras, but those are a Hawaiin hybrid and they aren't very common.


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## ScienceGirl

jamurfjr said:


> Italians like-eh half-eh my ancestry.


Very cool. Who did you buy your queen from? Local, or Mann Lake?


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## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> Very cool. Who did you buy your queen from? Local, or Mann Lake?


Queen comes as part the package. They're local. Coming from about two hours south of me.


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## ScienceGirl

jamurfjr said:


> Queen comes as part the package. They're local. Coming from about two hours south of me.


Very nice! They'll be accostomed to the climate and ready to make you honey!


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## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> Very nice! They'll be accostomed to the climate and ready to make you honey!


Finger crossed. Chances are, I'll be leaving it all with them—for the first winter anyway. A nuc probably would have yielded enough surplus honey this year. I expect you to share with those less fortunate.


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## ScienceGirl

jamurfjr said:


> Finger crossed. Chances are, I'll be leaving it all with them—for the first winter anyway. A nuc probably would have yielded enough surplus honey this year. I expect you to share with those less fortunate.


Haha! I wish. It only has five frames in it, and won't be at full working capacity for a while. They'll have to draw out comb and gather enough nectar and pollen and water to store for fall and winter, and to eat for spring and summer. True, the queen was introduced sooner than yours will be, so mine will have a bit of a head start.  Still, I wish the best luck to all of the honey bees in the world!!!  We've been painting supers and hive components this week for their full sized transition.


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## jamurfjr

Looks like my package bees are running behind. I won't be able to start until early May. Everything is built and painted. Nothing to do but wait and read up.


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## ScienceGirl

jamurfjr said:


> Looks like my package bees are running behind. I won't be able to start until early May. Everything is built and painted. Nothing to do but wait and read up.


Oh no!

Yes, books are a great pastime... Until you read about 20 of them, including your own inch thick "The Beekeeper's Handbook."  

At least you have your hive furniture painted! We've been waiting for weather to clear up before upgrading the bees housing. It's been a low pressure system lately, and the bees do NOT like that; they get very cranky and go sting-happy on you. Grrr... Rain, rain, go away...


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## ScienceGirl

Finally got those girls into their big hive. 60 degrees, sunny, and low winds. They were NOT very happy afterwords, but it could have been raining.  

More later.


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## jamurfjr

Congrats!

I'm sitting here with my yard a mess waiting to get an update on the bees at Thursday's association meeting. I let everything grow up to provide bees—which I don't yet have— nectar flow from dandelions, henbit, and clover. Looks like a jungle, but I'm sure the mantids and other bugs like it too.


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## Rick

jamurfjr said:


> Congrats!
> 
> I'm sitting here with my yard a mess waiting to get an update on the bees at Thursday's association meeting. I let everything grow up to provide bees—which I don't yet have— nectar flow from dandelions, henbit, and clover. Looks like a jungle, but I'm sure the mantids and other bugs like it too.


Good luck there. My bees couldn't care less about anything in the yard we have planted for them.


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## ScienceGirl

Rick said:


> Good luck there. My bees couldn't care less about anything in the yard we have planted for them.


I, too, have only seen one honey bee foraging on a single dandelion flower. Maybe they like to save the nectar sources closer to home for bad weather or nectar dearths? It's annoying though, because if they don't take it, some other bee will!  



jamurfjr said:


> Congrats!
> 
> I'm sitting here with my yard a mess waiting to get an update on the bees at Thursday's association meeting. I let everything grow up to provide bees—which I don't yet have— nectar flow from dandelions, henbit, and clover. Looks like a jungle, but I'm sure the mantids and other bugs like it too.


Haha, nice! We let the dandelions bloom, too. I've only seen one honey bee on a flower, though... I have no idea where they are foraging, maple tree sap, probably, but they are coming home laden with pollen and their honey stomachs are full, too, I can expect.

Yes, the other bugs will love it... Not always a good thing. Make sure that you keep the weeds trimmed down at least foot around the sides and back of the hive, and maybe three feet in front. They'll need their flying room to gain altitude, and it's much easier to work bees in a trimmed area.

Watch out for ants, too! Ants found my nuc in only 12 hours. I read that normally bees can keep down an ant population, but if they get overrun they will abscond. We treated them by thoroughly shaking cinnamon over the ground, hive cover, and entrance platform. The ants don't like it, but the bees don't seem to mind. Now that the bees are in a Langstroth hive on a high hive stand with four legs, we can make an oil "moat" by putting each leg in a can of motor oil.


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## jamurfjr

Rick said:


> Good luck there. My bees couldn't care less about anything in the yard we have planted for them.


My wife has been talking about buying some bee balm. I mentioned to her that your bees don't bother with it and go elsewhere. You may have saved me money.


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## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> I, too, have only seen one honey bee foraging on a single dandelion flower. Maybe they like to save the nectar sources closer to home for bad weather or nectar dearths? It's annoying though, because if they don't take it, some other bee will!
> 
> Haha, nice! We let the dandelions bloom, too. I've only seen one honey bee on a flower, though... I have no idea where they are foraging, maple tree sap, probably, but they are coming home laden with pollen and their honey stomachs are full, too, I can expect.
> 
> Yes, the other bugs will love it... Not always a good thing. Make sure that you keep the weeds trimmed down at least foot around the sides and back of the hive, and maybe three feet in front. They'll need their flying room to gain altitude, and it's much easier to work bees in a trimmed area.
> 
> Watch out for ants, too! Ants found my nuc in only 12 hours. I read that normally bees can keep down an ant population, but if they get overrun they will abscond. We treated them by thoroughly shaking cinnamon over the ground, hive cover, and entrance platform. The ants don't like it, but the bees don't seem to mind. Now that the bees are in a Langstroth hive on a high hive stand with four legs, we can make an oil "moat" by putting each leg in a can of motor oil.


Fire ants are a concern of mine. They are all over the place.


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## Paradoxica

Sorry, I really couldn't help but post this...

http://i.imgur.com/R1raY.gif

fftopic:


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## jamurfjr

Paradoxica said:


> Sorry, I really couldn't help but post this...
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/R1raY.gif
> 
> fftopic:


Made me laugh.


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## Rick

jamurfjr said:


> My wife has been talking about buying some bee balm. I mentioned to her that your bees don't bother with it and go elsewhere. You may have saved me money.


That was just one thing we tried. The bumble bees love all of this though.


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## jamurfjr

Rick said:


> That was just one thing we tried. The bumble bees love all of this though.


I suppose the other pollinators also deserve to be taken care of. They're are loving the current state of my yard. The bumbles keep to themselves and just do their thing. And I try to be tolerant of the annoying dive bombing of the male carpenter bees, but I have grown tired of caulking and painting over the holes they bore into the deck and siding.


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## ScienceGirl

jamurfjr said:


> Fire ants are a concern of mine. They are all over the place.


Ants love honey, and if they come in large numbers, the colony will abscond. Bad news for a beekeeper, because you can only get honey bees once a year. They aren't a year round supermarket product, and with CCD taking its toll, the prices seem to be going up from some providers.

Some things you can try:


Cat litter box filled with motor oil (old or new) or diesel. Set contrete blocks in the middle and place the hive on that.
Elevated hive stand with four legs: 1) put each leg in a can of motor oil or diesel to create a moat that the ants won't cross. 2) wrap each leg in a rag soaked in diesel.


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## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> Ants love honey, and if they come in large numbers, the colony will abscond. Bad news for a beekeeper, because you can only get honey bees once a year. They aren't a year round supermarket product, and with CCD taking its toll, the prices seem to be going up from some providers.
> 
> Some things you can try:
> 
> 
> Cat litter box filled with motor oil (old or new) or diesel. Set contrete blocks in the middle and place the hive on that.
> Elevated hive stand with four legs: 1) put each leg in a can of motor oil or diesel to create a moat that the ants won't cross. 2) wrap each leg in a rag soaked in diesel.


I'll keep that in mind and use the cat box suggestion if I have to. My hive bodies are already on blocks. Thanks!


----------



## ScienceGirl

jamurfjr said:


> I'll keep that in mind and use the cat box suggestion if I have too. My hive bodies are already on blocks. Thanks!


No problem.  We're using a four legged high hive stand (built ourselves!  ). We are using a screened bottom board from Mann Lake ltd with a removable drawer. The drawer is in right now, with paper covering it until we make a plastic board to cover with vaseline.

I'm waiting to see if the ants come back. Their trails will be very noticable up the four legs as opposed to the all around climbing surfaces of what the nuc was sitting on. I'll use diesel or motor oil if I have to, but I'd rather not.


----------



## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> No problem.  We're using a four legged high hive stand (built ourselves!  ). We are using a screened bottom board from Mann Lake ltd with a removable drawer. The drawer is in right now, with paper covering it until we make a plastic board to cover with vaseline.
> 
> I'm waiting to see if the ants come back. Their trails will be very noticable up the four legs as opposed to the all around climbing surfaces of what the nuc was sitting on. I'll use diesel or motor oil if I have to, but I'd rather not.


I went with the solid bottom board because I'm cheap. Lol! We'll see how that goes. Are small hive beetles a big problem in the Northwest?


----------



## Rick

jamurfjr said:


> I went with the solid bottom board because I'm cheap. Lol! We'll see how that goes. Are small hive beetles a big problem in the Northwest?


I get ants on occasion but the bees keep them in check. Never had any fire ants near the hives though. Can't speak for the Northwest but my hives have small hive beetles. A healthy hive can keep them in check. I see a few every time I open the hives and that disturbance causes them to come into the open where I can crush them or the bees will go after them. My friend lost most of his hives this year already due to shb. In that case the hives were probably weakened which allowed the bees to take over. I personally take a natural approach as much as possible and refuse to treat for the beetles since the bees can keep such things in check.


----------



## ScienceGirl

I heard from a honey bee research facility's online webpage from a nearby, highly esteemed college, that the smalle hive beetle has made an appearance in the NW. Guys, I'm scared. :helpsmilie: :shifty: 

I had a scare when I was switching the honey bees into the big hive... I saw a handful, maybe 6?, small beetles running around. Looking at pictures of small hive beetles, I'm not sure if what I'm seeing are shb. These bees were down in California pollinating though, so.... We'll see. Wish my bees health, as I do for your current and future ones!


----------



## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> I heard from a honey bee research facility's online webpage from a nearby, highly esteemed college, that the smalle hive beetle has made an appearance in the NW. Guys, I'm scared. :helpsmilie: :shifty:
> 
> I had a scare when I was switching the honey bees into the big hive... I saw a handful, maybe 6?, small beetles running around. Looking at pictures of small hive beetles, I'm not sure if what I'm seeing are shb. These bees were down in California pollinating though, so.... We'll see. Wish my bees health, as I do for your current and future ones!


Best wishes to your bees...

The guys here look at the shb as part of beekeeping. Every hive has them, and you'll never be completely rid of them. However, they can be controlled. Aside from colony strength, traps are available. I've also heard of treating the ground around the hive to kill larva, but I'm with Rick on that one. Chemicals and pesticides are a treatment of last resort.


----------



## Rick

As I mentioned a healthy colony can keep the beetles in check. Once you see them you will know, small black beetles.


----------



## ScienceGirl

They are small, and black. Very small... Very, vert, very small... I saw a picture of a small hive beetles compared to a penny. The length of the beetle was about the width of the top of Abraham Lincoln's head. These beetles are the size of... this o. I have seen some inside the hive, and captured some in a ziplock bag yesterday from outside of the hive.


----------



## ScienceGirl

I posted some pictures of the nucleus. These were from March.


----------



## Rick

Mine seem bigger than that for sure. Not much, but definitely larger than the o. I removed my external feeder yesterday and there were several beetles under it and they went scattering at the disturbance. Need to get into my hive for a good look I think.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Would you be able to post a picture of yours on white paper compared to a penny? I'll do the same with mine.


----------



## jamurfjr

The smb shown to me in class was larger than what you describe, ScienceGirl. Wikipedia claims one-half centimeter in length.

Quick thinking on the improvised water source. We have been discussing the issue and will probably set up a bird bath exclusively for bees—sorry no birds allowed.


----------



## Rick

ScienceGirl said:


> Would you be able to post a picture of yours on white paper compared to a penny? I'll do the same with mine.


I can but not sure when I'll be able to. I'll try to get into the hive this week sometime.


----------



## ScienceGirl

jamurfjr said:


> The smb shown to me in class was larger than what you describe, ScienceGirl. Wikipedia claims one-half centimeter in length.
> 
> Quick thinking on the improvised water source. We have been discussing the issue and will probably set up a bird bath exclusively for bees—sorry no birds allowed.


Haha, thank you.  We're going to buy a couple chicken waterers/feeders and fill the base with pebbles. A hive can need as much as 1 liter of water on a hot day, so we want to make sure they'll have enough if we go anywhere for a week or so.



Rick said:


> I can but not sure when I'll be able to. I'll try to get into the hive this week sometime.


All right, and thank you. My bag with the beetles in it must have been thrown away while cleaning... I'm going up to the hives today to make sure the Carniolan colony is queen-right. It was only a permittable day when I moved them into their big hive, so I had to get the brood frames into the box quickly. No inspection time.


----------



## ScienceGirl

So, they're probably not hive beetles.

I have a bigger problem now.

I was examining the frames :detective: to make sure the colony was queen-right. I didn't remember seeing any larva when quickly rehousing them from their nucleus, but it may have just been the lighting. Well, this time I didn't see a queen, and examined almost every frame. I was right in the center frames when I glanced upon . . . _supersedure cells. :huh: _ :no: 

Time for a call to my beekeeper contact. &lt;_&lt; 

Supersedure cells are built around existing larva or eggs, and the selected brood are turned over to the diet of a queen larva. They new virgin queens are carefully raised to replace the old queen, because the workers felt she was failing, not performing up to their standards, or because she got damaged in some way or killed.

*EDIT: Called my beekeeping mentor. We're going to receive another nucleus with a laying queen from him. These bees, brood frames, and queen will be added to the current hive. Any roaming virgin queens will be killed and supersedure cells will be removed.*


----------



## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> So, they're probably not hive beetles.
> 
> I have a bigger problem now.
> 
> I was examining the frames :detective: to make sure the colony was queen-right. I didn't remember seeing any larva when quickly rehousing them from their nucleus, but it may have just been the lighting. Well, this time I didn't see a queen, and examined almost every frame. I was right in the center frames when I glanced upon . . . _supersedure cells. :huh: _ :no:
> 
> Time for a call to my beekeeper contact. &lt;_&lt;
> 
> Supersedure cells are built around existing larva or eggs, and the selected brood are turned over to the diet of a queen larva. They new virgin queens are carefully raised to replace the old queen, because the workers felt she was failing, not performing up to their standards, or because she got damaged in some way or killed.
> 
> *EDIT: Called my beekeeping mentor. We're going to receive another nucleus with a laying queen from him. These bees, brood frames, and queen will be added to the current hive. Any roaming virgin queens will be killed and supersedure cells will be removed.*


Sounds like you've got that taken care of. Good job!

My first inclination would have been to allow the supersedure to take place. Your population growth would take a hit until the new queen is laying, but the colony should bounce back, right? Perhaps not with a nuc? Newbie question here; please correct if I'm wrong. I do understand strengthening the hive through combination and why you would want a laying queen sooner than later.


----------



## ScienceGirl

jamurfjr said:


> Sounds like you've got that taken care of. Good job!
> 
> My first inclination would have been to allow the supersedure to take place. Your population growth would take a hit until the new queen is laying, but the colony should bounce back, right? Perhaps not with a nuc? Newbie question here; please correct if I'm wrong. I do understand strengthening the hive through combination and why you would want a laying queen sooner than later.


Haha, thank you.  

Well, firstly, supersedure is _natural_. Another name for supersedure cells is emergency queen cells, but they are kind of different. Supersedure happens to replace the current queen; emergency queen cells are built to replace a nonexistant queen. If the current queen was killed, wasn't performing well enough, wasn't producing enough pheromones, was injured, or for any reason was felt faulting and isn't dead already, the workers may let her live while they raise new queens, or they may kill her and continue raising new queens.

Supersedure cells are on the top 2/3 of the comb, built over an already present cell.

Firstly, if it is an emergency queen cell, the workers' first choice is to built a queen cell around an egg. If there are no eggs present, they will build around whatever youngest larva stage they can get. So this larva may not be prepped for success. Remember, the longer the larva has been eating a queen diet, the better the outcome and the healthier (normally) the virgin queen will be.

Once a virgin queen emerges, the next step is mating. If you are in an area with not many hives, there will not be many drones, and you don't know the temperment of these drone mother colonies. If the queen doesn't mate with enough drones, she will not have much sperm to fertilize eggs with. If you live in an area with africanized bees, than this can be major trouble. If the weather is not nice enough, the virgin queen may not be able to take her mating flight, and she only has a limited window to mate in. Once you've got a virgin queen that's missed her window and is in charge of a colony, you've got trouble; she can only lay drones, and no more queens can be raised from these. The hive will collapse unless the virgin queen is killed and the hive is requeened by a beekeeper.

Queen producers have queen mother colonies and drone mother colonies that they test for certain traits, such as hygene, gentleness, honey production, propolis production, egg laying rate, etc. They stock the area with preferable drone mother colonies and provide DCA's (drone congregation areas). They often put virgin queens into queen banks or mating nucs, which allow more virgin queens to mate in a smaller area because these types of hives are very small.


----------



## jamurfjr

I see. So you are taking some chances: 1) later stage larva fed royal jelly results/could result in an inferior queen, 2) a possibility of drone scarcity, and 3) many other variables.  Learn something new everyday. Thanks for the explanation!


----------



## ScienceGirl

jamurfjr said:


> I see. So you are taking some chances: 1) later stage larva fed royal jelly results/could result in an inferior queen, 2) a possibility of drone scarcity, and 3) many other variables.  Learn something new everyday. Thanks for the explanation!


Haha, yep. You've got it!  With honey bees, things can turn out multiple ways. For me, supersedure cells were built. Well, that's what keeps us thinking ahead, I guess!


----------



## ScienceGirl

Today we combined the queenless colony with the queen-right nucleus colony. They should combine peacefully at this point in the year, but the colonies would kill each other if combining was attempted in mid and late summer.

Steps:


Lightly smoke and open the full sized queenless hive. Go through, frame by frame, looking for supersedure cells. Pierce them with a toothpick and kill the pupa inside. Set each frame into another hive box resting on the ground. (This box will become the second story.) When finished, your bottom hive body will be empty and should be sitting on the bottom board with or without a hive stand. Take a moment to clean the inside of the box, the frame rests, and the bottom board with your hive tool.
Place your queen-right nucleus Lightly smoke and open the queen-right nucleus hive. Carefully remove each frame, placing it in the center of the empty hive box, with brood frames in the very center. A queen would most likely be found on a frame with young brood and eggs, not capped cells or just honey and nectar. When finished, place extra frames with drawn comb or foundation on the sides of the nucleus' frames.
Feed, if desired. Close the hive and place the hive cover(s) on top.
Lean the nucleus box and the nucleus cover against the hive entrance so remaining bees can enter the hive.
You are finished! Sit back with a glass of iced tea and watch your bees lap up nectar and honey inside the nucleus. The bees inside the hive will also drag out the dead virgin queen pupas.


----------



## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> Today we combined the queenless colony with the queen-right nucleus colony. They should combine peacefully at this point in the year, but the colonies would kill each other if combining was attempted in mid and late summer.
> 
> Steps:
> 
> 
> Lightly smoke and open the full sized queenless hive. Go through, frame by frame, looking for supersedure cells. Pierce them with a toothpick and kill the pupa inside. Set each frame into another hive box resting on the ground. (This box will become the second story.) When finished, your bottom hive body will be empty and should be sitting on the bottom board with or without a hive stand. Take a moment to clean the inside of the box, the frame rests, and the bottom board with your hive tool.
> Place your queen-right nucleus Lightly smoke and open the queen-right nucleus hive. Carefully remove each frame, placing it in the center of the empty hive box, with brood frames in the very center. A queen would most likely be found on a frame with young brood and eggs, not capped cells or just honey and nectar. When finished, place extra frames with drawn comb or foundation on the sides of the nucleus' frames.
> Feed, if desired. Close the hive and place the hive cover(s) on top.
> Lean the nucleus box and the nucleus cover against the hive entrance so remaining bees can enter the hive.
> You are finished! Sit back with a glass of iced tea and watch your bees lap up nectar and honey inside the nucleus. The bees inside the hive will also drag out the dead virgin queen pupas.


Nice write-up! I'm sure I'll be back to consult it in the future.

Also...

Bees. Tomorrow. Anticipation.


----------



## jamurfjr

I only received one of two packages today, but I'm now in business! Installed with zero stings! unk: 






















The only downer was a glimpse of a small hive beetle. When I went back to clean off the landing board, it scurried inside the hive. THEY are here so soon! Must have hitched a ride with the bees. Oh well, I'm not going to sweat it.


----------



## Rick

Congrats on getting at least one of your packages! And you hived it in a t shirt haha. The first time I did it with a friend we hived several hives and he got stung a few times. But generally they are not defensive since they don't have a home. Is that what you're using for a feeder? I would rethink that since it is open to every other insect that likes nectar. My friend had ten hives on his property and used a communal feeder and he lost every one of his hives to what we think was attributed to his feeding style. Somewhat different situation but something to watch out for.

Looking forward to updates.


----------



## jamurfjr

Rick said:


> Congrats on getting at least one of your packages! And you hived it in a t shirt haha. The first time I did it with a friend we hived several hives and he got stung a few times. But generally they are not defensive since they don't have a home. Is that what you're using for a feeder? I would rethink that since it is open to every other insect that likes nectar. My friend had ten hives on his property and used a communal feeder and he lost every one of his hives to what we think was attributed to his feeding style. Somewhat different situation but something to watch out for.
> 
> Looking forward to updates.


Thanks!

I was apprehensive at first—with all the buzzing! I had never even seen it done in person. It was just one of those 'let's get it done' moments, but boy was I sweating bullets! I can assure you of this: the process was not pretty. Despite the warnings in class, I even dropped the queen cage into the mass of workers! Nerves gradually subsided. I became amazed at how easy the bees were to work with. All in all...a very positive initial experience.

I'm temporarily feeding with a punctured can under the telescoping cover. As of now, there should be good nectar flow; so it won't be for long...giving the bees a chance to get situated. I'm using the chick water dispenser as an improvised water source. That too will be taken up in time.


----------



## ScienceGirl

jamurfjr said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I was apprehensive at first—with all the buzzing! I had never even seen it done in person. It was just one of those 'let's get it done' moments, but boy was I sweating bullets! I can assure you of this: the process was not pretty. Despite the warnings in class, I even dropped the queen cage into the mass of workers! Nerves gradually subsided. I became amazed at how easy the bees were to work with. All in all...a very positive initial experience.
> 
> I'm temporarily feeding with a punctured can under the telescoping cover. As of now, there should be good nectar flow; so it won't be for long...giving the bees a chance to get situated. I'm using the chick water dispenser as an improvised water source. That too will be taken up in time.


If you want a feeding source that will lay flat, try pouring sugar syrup into a plastic ziplock bag. Cut an X into it, or slits, which ever you prefer. Place this on top of the frames or inner cover and close the hive.


----------



## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> If you want a feeding source that will lay flat, try pouring sugar syrup into a plastic ziplock bag. Cut an X into it, or slits, which ever you prefer. Place this on top of the frames or inner cover and close the hive.


Yeah, we plan to switch over to ziplock bags for winter feeding. The can came with the bees. Figured the bees should use up its contents, and too lazy to transfer to a baggie.

SG, I did find something for you today. It was in the queen cage(vacated) of all places. Meet my new little friend. Enjoy the glamour shot I took of s/he.  







Yeah, so today, I prematurely checked the queen cage inside the hive(can't leave things alone). After I determined she had made her escape(she's marked and I saw her out and about on a frame), the queen cage was removed, and I filled the space it was occupying with the last two frames. I'm going to try to leave them alone for a week or so.

Their orientation flights are mesmerizing. It's akin to staring into a campfire. Primitive TV.


----------



## Rick

jamurfjr said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I was apprehensive at first—with all the buzzing! I had never even seen it done in person. It was just one of those 'let's get it done' moments, but boy was I sweating bullets! I can assure you of this: the process was not pretty. Despite the warnings in class, I even dropped the queen cage into the mass of workers! Nerves gradually subsided. I became amazed at how easy the bees were to work with. All in all...a very positive initial experience.
> 
> I'm temporarily feeding with a punctured can under the telescoping cover. As of now, there should be good nectar flow; so it won't be for long...giving the bees a chance to get situated. I'm using the chick water dispenser as an improvised water source. That too will be taken up in time.


Oh ok that was water. I personally am a big fan of the entrance feeders. The types where the opening is inside the hive.

And I agree on what you said about watching them. I watched for a long time when I first got into this.


----------



## ScienceGirl

jamurfjr said:


> Yeah, we plan to switch over to ziplock bags for winter feeding. The can came with the bees. Figured the bees should use up its contents, and too lazy to transfer to a baggie.
> 
> SG, I did find something for you today. It was in the queen cage(vacated) of all places. Meet my new little friend. Enjoy the glamour shot I took of s/he.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, so today, I prematurely checked the queen cage inside the hive(can't leave things alone). After I determined she had made her escape(she's marked and I saw her out and about on a frame), the queen cage was removed, and I filled the space it was occupying with the last two frames. I'm going to try to leave them alone for a week or so.
> 
> Their orientation flights are mesmerizing. It's akin to staring into a campfire. Primitive TV.


Thank you for the picture!  

And yes, their orientation flights are very cool to watch. Especially when you try it follow just one bee with your eyes!


----------



## Rick

So some guy had a massive hive in his attic. Called a beekeeper and three hours before the guy arrived the comb collapsed and fell through his ceiling. What a mess:

http://imgur.com/a/SPr4k


----------



## jamurfjr

Rick said:


> So some guy had a massive hive in his attic. Called a beekeeper and three hours before the guy arrived the comb collapsed and fell through his ceiling. What a mess:
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/SPr4k


Whoa! I like bees but not that much. Repairs won't be cheap. Feel sorry for the guy.

I received my second package, yesterday. Like the first, I put them into the hive without a hitch. I still have to check on the queen tomorrow.

First hive seems to be doing well. They are drawing comb...


----------



## Rick

Honeybees being used to detect land mines:

http://www.stripes.com/news/europe/honeybees-trained-in-croatia-to-find-land-mines-1.221537


----------



## ScienceGirl

Did he get the honey?  

A family member told me about research being done saying that taking honey away from the bees and leaving them with sugar syrup causing them to be unhealthy... More on that, and a posting of the source, later.


----------



## jamurfjr

Well, one of my bees decided to sting the hand that feeds. I was retrieving an empty ziplock bag(feeder) from the "new colony". A worker landed on the inside of the middle finger of my right hand, at the knuckle. In an attempt to fling her off, I shook my hand...and bam! She got me! It was more shocking than anything...really didn't hurt as bad as I remember.


----------



## Rick

jamurfjr said:


> Well, one of my bees decided to sting the hand that feeds. I was retrieving an empty ziplock bag(feeder) from the "new colony". A worker landed on the inside of the middle finger of my right hand, at the knuckle. In an attempt to fling her off, I shook my hand...and bam! She got me! It was more shocking than anything...really didn't hurt as bad as I remember.


Get used to it. I never work in the hive without gloves and a veil. I've been stung in the face once and numerous times in the hands. I have no idea how people work a hive without protection.


----------



## Rick

Here is one of my hive beetles on a penny. Opened my hive and there were more than normal. They hang out between the bars. Bees are fine though:


----------



## jamurfjr

Perhaps we can sell our shb's on the beetle forums?! I'm not serious...


----------



## ScienceGirl

Thanks Rick!

That sounds like inviting trouble for beekeepers everywhere, Jamufjr.  

HIVE UPDATE: So... I have no idea if the queen that had been put in with the nucleus was accepted. Weather has been rainy and cold, and when it's sunny, my family and I, of course, have somewhere else to be. I'm pretty sure it's time for a third hive body, though, and hope to inspect the hive ASAP...

I fed the bees today, and the sugar feeder is dripping... :angry: Ants are all over the hive and I saw my first robbing today. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!


----------



## Rick

ScienceGirl said:


> Thanks Rick!
> 
> That sounds like inviting trouble for beekeepers everywhere, Jamufjr.
> 
> HIVE UPDATE: So... I have no idea if the queen that had been put in with the nucleus was accepted. Weather has been rainy and cold, and when it's sunny, my family and I, of course, have somewhere else to be. I'm pretty sure it's time for a third hive body, though, and hope to inspect the hive ASAP...
> 
> I fed the bees today, and the sugar feeder is dripping... :angry: Ants are all over the hive and I saw my first robbing today. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!


Are you using a bag of feed inside the hive? Maybe try an entrance feeder. The food jar is on the outside but the entrance to it is inside the hive. Sorry to hear of problems like those.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Rick said:


> Are you using a bag of feed inside the hive? Maybe try an entrance feeder. The food jar is on the outside but the entrance to it is inside the hive. Sorry to hear of problems like those.


No, I'm not. I'm feeding with a black container wit a hole poked in the lid. This gets flipped over and the lid fits in a hole on the hive cover. Sometimes it drips too much - then I'll plug the hole a bit with some wax.

It spilled over the cover when I was putting it on yesterday. I diluted it by liberally dumping water over the cover and then dried with paper towels. It must be dripping too much because it appears to be running down the hive, through the screened bottom board, down the insert, and down the leg of the hive stand ... which is where honey bees and ants (ignoring the cinnamon that I piled at the bases of all the legs) gather en mass. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Well, we need to cut the hive stand legs so it's lower - at two bodies, it is up to my chest. Then we'll put the legs in cans of oil. That will solve the ant problem, but I'll just have to be super careful to prevent winged robbers w/ stingers. AKA sneaky bees from other hives.  

Anyway, I just feel bad because my bees weren't the ones luring robbers to their hive. Guilt.  

I've heard that entrance feeders are only safe for giving water during hot periods. Syrup = major robbing.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Here it is Memorial Day ... and we've got a queen to replace.  

Inspected the hive today. In the whole two bodies, we only found one frame of brood, and 3 supersedure cells.

Maybe they want a democracy?  

Next step from here will probably be ordering a queen and introducing her over a week.


----------



## Rick

That stinks. I can say I have never had issues with ants. I do see them sometimes but they never seem to be a problem. Mine are on bricks so if I ever have ant issues it will be a real pain. This reminds me that I need to get into the hive. There is a nice big comb of honey I have my eye on.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Sounds yummy! Comb honey, or for extraction?


----------



## ScienceGirl

Talked to my beekeeper friend. He's sold around 80 nucs this spring (2 of which were to me: the first one, and then the one to provide a queen when we removed supersedure cells), and none of them have had the problems that I've had.  Maybe it's the bees? I've left them alone for a while after we combined the nucleus'. I don't see why this is happening... But...

I'm going to give our current hive back to him, and buy a full sized hive that has been running smoothly for a while. He'll inspect the hive I'm returning with me to see if he notices what the problem was.


----------



## Rick

ScienceGirl said:


> Sounds yummy! Comb honey, or for extraction?


Both. Most of it will be removed and just jarred.


----------



## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> Talked to my beekeeper friend. He's sold around 80 nucs this spring (2 of which were to me: the first one, and then the one to provide a queen when we removed supersedure cells), and none of them have had the problems that I've had.  Maybe it's the bees? I've left them alone for a while after we combined the nucleus'. I don't see why this is happening... But...
> 
> I'm going to give our current hive back to him, and buy a full sized hive that has been running smoothly for a while. He'll inspect the hive I'm returning with me to see if he notices what the problem was.


SG, sorry to hear of the trouble you're having. Hope you get it resolved. Let us know when the full-size hive gets there.


----------



## Rick

Was able to harvest a little honey the other day. More to get though. My bees decided to store honey in the front of the hive too, in previous years that was all brood.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Rick said:


> Was able to harvest a little honey the other day. More to get though. My bees decided to store honey in the front of the hive too, in previous years that was all brood.


Interesting... The front of the hive is the cooler spot, what with the entrance there and breezes coming in. Queens tend to not lay there. And honey is a good insulator!  Maybe we'll start using it for housing! (lol, yummy!)


----------



## Rick

ScienceGirl said:


> Interesting... The front of the hive is the cooler spot, what with the entrance there and breezes coming in. Queens tend to not lay there. And honey is a good insulator!  Maybe we'll start using it for housing! (lol, yummy!)


Guess it depends on the hive. Mine are open on the bottom. I never really bother to look towards the front these days but just decided to on a whim.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Okay, here's the update.

We'll pick up a new hive. Beekeeping mentor and I will inspect it to be sure it is queenright and productive before I purchase it and bring it home.

As for the "Hooray for (whatever gov. they're fixed on). Down with the queen!" hive . . . mentor says to either let them die out so I'll have their equiptment, or to insert a frame of brood from the colony I'll buy. He said that once they've made the queen cells, they'll want to kill whatever queen I introduce, and that the supersedure cells they made were probably not fertilized correctly. By putting in a fresh frame of properly fertilized female eggs and larva, the colony can try to raise a queen to mate with local drones. (Crossing my fingers on this one. I paid for the hive, so I don't want it to die out. C'mon bees, please??? I'm feeding you syrup and everything!)


----------



## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> Okay, here's the update.
> 
> We'll pick up a new hive. Beekeeping mentor and I will inspect it to be sure it is queenright and productive before I purchase it and bring it home.
> 
> As for the "Hooray for (whatever gov. they're fixed on). Down with the queen!" hive . . . mentor says to either let them die out so I'll have their equiptment, or to insert a frame of brood from the colony I'll buy. He said that once they've made the queen cells, they'll want to kill whatever queen I introduce, and that the supersedure cells they made were probably not fertilized correctly. By putting in a fresh frame of properly fertilized female eggs and larva, the colony can try to raise a queen to mate with local drones. (Crossing my fingers on this one. I paid for the hive, so I don't want it to die out. C'mon bees, please??? I'm feeding you syrup and everything!)


Keeping my fingers crossed for you.


----------



## Rick

Hope everything works out. Guess I got lucky with my hives.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Rick said:


> Hope everything works out. Guess I got lucky with my hives.





jamurfjr said:


> Keeping my fingers crossed for you.


Thank you both.  

Note to Self: Tell the new hive of bees the expectations BEFORE purchasing. Post a sign for everybee to see that reads: "*Assassination of Queen Punishable by the Removal of Sugar Syrup."*

(I just hope that they prefer syrup to the blackberry nectar. The acres of blackberry vines have begun to flowered, and I've seen some very happy bees.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Beekeeping mentor is wondering if the two colonies that were combined from nucs killed the queen...


----------



## Rick

Seems I have wax moths in mine. My hives are strong so it shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Rick said:


> Seems I have wax moths in mine. My hives are strong so it shouldn't be an issue.


That's good. A pest prevention part of one of the many beekeeping books I've read said that the moths don't lay if there is light inside the hive. You can hook up a lighting system on the inside that doesn't bother the bees.

OR you could rear wax moths to sell to fishermen and stuff. Apparently it can be quite profitable. There is a section in the back of my fav. beekeeping book, "The Beekeeper's Handbook" on that.


----------



## Rick

ScienceGirl said:


> That's good. A pest prevention part of one of the many beekeeping books I've read said that the moths don't lay if there is light inside the hive. You can hook up a lighting system on the inside that doesn't bother the bees.
> 
> OR you could rear wax moths to sell to fishermen and stuff. Apparently it can be quite profitable. There is a section in the back of my fav. beekeeping book, "The Beekeeper's Handbook" on that.


Only found a few that were between the bars encased in their silk cocoons. I removed the few I found.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Purchased and have unloaded the full sized, queen-right hive into the field. Beekeeping mentor said to let the queenless hive die out so that I could use the equiptment on the running hive. Nighttime travel = hot, crabby bees.

We'll see how they look tomorrow. The honey-flow is on, so this is when they'll make it or break it. Let's hope this hive flourishes!


----------



## sally

Here's hoping everything goes well


----------



## ScienceGirl

sally said:


> Here's hoping everything goes well


Thank you.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Orientation flights commenced this morning.

I also got to see an up close view of the back legs of a honeybee - more specifically, the pollen basket structure, which is composed of a slight indent into the bees' leg and hairs that all point downwards. The other legs of a bee also have similar comb hairs covering them. These are used to comb pollen from various parts of a foraging bee and to deposit in on the hairs of the back leg.


----------



## mtolosa

This is so cool! Do you mind if I ask how much the total start up cost? I've been thinking about getting bees for some time now, and would be interested in knowing how much I should save up. Thanks for your great post!


----------



## ScienceGirl

mtolosa said:


> This is so cool! Do you mind if I ask how much the total start up cost? I've been thinking about getting bees for some time now, and would be interested in knowing how much I should save up. Thanks for your great post!


Well, there are four ways:


Collect a swarm (free!)
Buy a full-size, up and running colony
Buy a nucleus hive (a small hive with only five frames)
Buy a queen (typically $25) and package bees (sold by pounds, typically want to get three lbs or more) and install them into hive bodies.
You can check around with various suppliers, and get in touch with some local beekeepers. If you purchase from a local beekeeper, you'll have a mentor and someone to ask questions who knows the bees and climate in the area. Some suppliers are: beecommerce.com, mannlakeltd (my favorite), and Dadant. You can request a free catalog from Mann lake and from Dadant.

I also highly recommend these two books: "The Beekeeper's Handbook" and "Beekeeping For Dummies".

Purchasing all of your equiptment new will be around $300. You'll need a suit, a smoker, a hive tool, at least two hive bodies, frames, and the bees.


----------



## Rick

ScienceGirl said:


> Well, there are four ways:
> 
> 
> Collect a swarm (free!)
> Buy a full-size, up and running colony
> Buy a nucleus hive (a small hive with only five frames)
> Buy a queen (typically $25) and package bees (sold by pounds, typically want to get three lbs or more) and install them into hive bodies.
> You can check around with various suppliers, and get in touch with some local beekeepers. If you purchase from a local beekeeper, you'll have a mentor and someone to ask questions who knows the bees and climate in the area. Some suppliers are: beecommerce.com, mannlakeltd (my favorite), and Dadant. You can request a free catalog from Mann lake and from Dadant.
> 
> I also highly recommend these two books: "The Beekeeper's Handbook" and "Beekeeping For Dummies".
> 
> Purchasing all of your equiptment new will be around $300. You'll need a suit, a smoker, a hive tool, at least two hive bodies, frames, and the bees.


I much prefer and have had great success with a package. There are many suppliers, for example I prefer Brushy Mountain Bee Farm. There a lot of choices and options when it comes to hives and the components of hives. There are even different kinds of hives. I use top bar hives. All types have their pros and cons. Most areas have bee clubs or ag extensions that can help you. There are also plenty of beekeeping forums online too. Keep in mind some locales don't allow the keeping of bees or require permits. That is of course not a worry if you live in the country.


----------



## mtolosa

Thanks, guys! I know we have a Northern Virginia Apiary society, so I'll probably contact them for all of their suppliers. They also have meetings for beginners, which should be helpful


----------



## ScienceGirl

mtolosa said:


> Thanks, guys! I know we have a Northern Virginia Apiary society, so I'll probably contact them for all of their suppliers. They also have meetings for beginners, which should be helpful


Great! You're off to a good start already!

Perhaps you could buy some bees or used equiptment from them.

Another thing about bees - you'll want to get started as close to spring or, hesitantly, early summer as possible. The bees will need time to draw out comb, forage, and for the queen (if you introduce her) to be released and have the first egg emerge as a worker in 21 days.

If you have any more questions, or just want to talk bees with us, please do ask/join us!  

OH! And I can't stress the importance of reading, reading, reading. Libraries are a great source for taking a look at hobbies before you jump into them. (I myself checked out 10+ books on beekeeping during the past year.) Once you find a book that you really like, buy it! Then you'll have a bunch of information to help you as you're working your hives and identifying problems.


----------



## Rick

Speaking of getting started, depending on your location it is getting a bit late in my experience.


----------



## mtolosa

ScienceGirl said:


> Great! You're off to a good start already!
> 
> Perhaps you could buy some bees or used equiptment from them.
> 
> Another thing about bees - you'll want to get started as close to spring or, hesitantly, early summer as possible. The bees will need time to draw out comb, forage, and for the queen (if you introduce her) to be released and have the first egg emerge as a worker in 21 days.
> 
> If you have any more questions, or just want to talk bees with us, please do ask/join us!
> 
> OH! And I can't stress the importance of reading, reading, reading. Libraries are a great source for taking a look at hobbies before you jump into them. (I myself checked out 10+ books on beekeeping during the past year.) Once you find a book that you really like, buy it! Then you'll have a bunch of information to help you as you're working your hives and identifying problems.


Sounds perfect! I'll try to spend the next year researching and maybe save up to start next Spring. I'll definately keep in touch!

M


----------



## ScienceGirl

mtolosa said:


> Sounds perfect! I'll try to spend the next year researching and maybe save up to start next Spring. I'll definately keep in touch!
> 
> M


You can also talk to the local beekeepers and see if you could go out and help them work their hives during the summer.


----------



## jamurfjr

Checking in. My bees(both colonies) seem to be doing well. I'm up to five stings now; three occurred simultaneously—one just above my right eye.


----------



## Rick

jamurfjr said:


> Checking in. My bees(both colonies) seem to be doing well. I'm up to five stings now; three occurred simultaneously—one just above my right eye.


Yeah I got hit in the eye last year just walking through the yard. Bee got caught under my sunglasses. Then I had a time where two bees got into my veil somehow. No stings there but not a good thing. My friend was over taking some macro mantis shots and wanted to get some bee pics. He got stung on the forehead. But lucky him he has zero reaction, I swell bad.


----------



## ScienceGirl

I have a bad reaction, too. When I first got stung to see if I was allergic (wouldn't it be fun to find out you're allergic with a trunkful of angry bees in your car? :clap: ) the back of my hand swelled up largely for a week. When it finally went down, I, happy to again see the bones of my hand, gently traced them. Within the hour, it had begun swelling again. It reached full size and remained this way for a week. (NOT fun when you're traveling with a large ensemble and having to play flute and solos on piccolo with your abnormally large left hand.)

Were you wearing a veil, jamurfjr?

I observed my bees doing a behavior called washboarding in front of the entrance yesterday. It's this cute little dance where they quickly bob forwards, backwards, and side to side in small increments, all while furiously rubbing with their forelegs and mouth. The purpose of washboarding is probably to clean, says my go-to bee book. I enjoyed watching their immense concentration as they scrubbed.


----------



## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> I have a bad reaction, too. When I first got stung to see if I was allergic (wouldn't it be fun to find out you're allergic with a trunkful of angry bees in your car? :clap: ) the back of my hand swelled up largely for a week. When it finally went down, I, happy to again see the bones of my hand, gently traced them. Within the hour, it had begun swelling again. It reached full size and remained this way for a week. (NOT fun when you're traveling with a large ensemble and having to play flute and solos on piccolo with your abnormally large left hand.)
> 
> Were you wearing a veil, jamurfjr?
> 
> I observed my bees doing a behavior called washboarding in front of the entrance yesterday. It's this cute little dance where they quickly bob forwards, backwards, and side to side in small increments, all while furiously rubbing with their forelegs and mouth. The purpose of washboarding is probably to clean, says my go-to bee book. I enjoyed watching their immense concentration as they scrubbed.


Veil...umm no :blush: ...but I have been wearing one ever since.  Think I learned my lesson after walking around with what looked like a shiner for a couple of days.

I love to watch them orienting and washboarding. That's part of the problem; I'm always then compelled to take a peek inside and don't feel like "gearing" up.


----------



## ScienceGirl

jamurfjr said:


> Veil...umm no :blush: ...but I have been wearing one ever since.  Think I learned my lesson after walking around with what looked like a shiner for a couple of days.
> 
> I love to watch them orienting and washboarding. That's part of the problem; I'm always then compelled to take a peek inside and don't feel like "gearing" up.


Haha, you sneaky jamurfjr!!! (lol, idk if you've seen the Jimmy Kimmel Halloween candy on youtube... My aunt showed it to me.  ) Yes, I love, Love, LOVE watching the girls flit around. While I have yet to decide whether or not I like the smell of curing nectar that greets me whenever I come near the apiary, I do enjoy hearing their buzz of protest when I open the lid. Still, I'm not comfortable opening them without a lid, and keep my distance to two feet from the entrance, at the least.

After supering the new colony, I checked queen-killer hive. . . And found frames of BROOD!!!!!!!! So happy!


----------



## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> Haha, you sneaky jamurfjr!!! (lol, idk if you've seen the Jimmy Kimmel Halloween candy on youtube... My aunt showed it to me.  ) Yes, I love, Love, LOVE watching the girls flit around. While I have yet to decide whether or not I like the smell of curing nectar that greets me whenever I come near the apiary, I do enjoy hearing their buzz of protest when I open the lid. Still, I'm not comfortable opening them without a lid, and keep my distance to two feet from the entrance, at the least.
> 
> After supering the new colony, I checked queen-killer hive. . . And found frames of BROOD!!!!!!!! So happy!


Haven't seen it(Kimmel skit), but will check it out.

Congrats on your brood!


----------



## jamurfjr

Counted and crushed five small hive beetles on the top cover alone. Beetle blasters(traps)on the way!


----------



## Rick

jamurfjr said:


> Counted and crushed five small hive beetles on the top cover alone. Beetle blasters(traps)on the way!


The bees in my hives keep the beetles under control without the use of traps. Those traps don't use chemicals so not a big deal I don't think.

Speaking of bees, I need to get into the hives.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Rick said:


> The bees in my hives keep the beetles under control without the use of traps. Those traps don't use chemicals so not a big deal I don't think.
> 
> Speaking of bees, I need to get into the hives.


Me too.  Haven't opened them up in while... One of the hives may have swarmed, but until I open it up, I can't be sure. I used to be able to see masses of bees clustered on the bottoms of the frames (most likely for brood care and comfort...). However, it has stayed around 80-90 degrees F, so another very real possibility is that they aren't needed on the frames for warmth, but must forage and move around to keep the hive cool.


----------



## Rick

ScienceGirl said:


> Me too.  Haven't opened them up in while... One of the hives may have swarmed, but until I open it up, I can't be sure. I used to be able to see masses of bees clustered on the bottoms of the frames (most likely for brood care and comfort...). However, it has stayed around 80-90 degrees F, so another very real possibility is that they aren't needed on the frames for warmth, but must forage and move around to keep the hive cool.


Aren't your hives new? I doubt they would have swarmed already. Mine have been up and running for three years and I haven't had one swarm yet.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Rick said:


> Aren't your hives new? I doubt they would have swarmed already. Mine have been up and running for three years and I haven't had one swarm yet.


I bet they've just relocated the bees keeping the frames warm to AC duty.

Hives being new hasn't done anything for me yet. I've lost 2 queens in one colony in the first few months. The newer hive seems to be doing fine, though.


----------



## Rick

ScienceGirl said:


> I bet they've just relocated the bees keeping the frames warm to AC duty.
> 
> Hives being new hasn't done anything for me yet. I've lost 2 queens in one colony in the first few months. The newer hive seems to be doing fine, though.


Not sure what you mean about hives being new not doing anything for you yet. I am still a newbie at this even after three years and have no problem admitting to it. I could easily be wrong about the swarming.

I went into one of my hives today to find a mess from my perspective. Bees built plenty of nice new comb full of new honey but they have cross combed really bad. I broke a few combs trying to inspect. If there is one bad thing about top bar hives that right there is it.

On a lighter note here is a pic. I admit I laughed:


----------



## ScienceGirl

Rick - I meant that being new hasn't guaranteed an easy path without lots of calls to my mentor yet.  

Did you know that wax is a valuable by-product? Especially white, fresh wax. When I opened my hive, the comb they built between the frames and top board broke, spilling honey and nectar. I removed this white wax and set it down for them to clean... I just realized I haven't retrieved it yet.


----------



## jamurfjr

Good one, Rick! I laughed too. Reminds me how things work around here.

An observation made today: I never EVER thought I'd be weed eating with a smoker, but this I now do.


----------



## Rick

ScienceGirl said:


> Rick - I meant that being new hasn't guaranteed an easy path without lots of calls to my mentor yet.
> 
> Did you know that wax is a valuable by-product? Especially white, fresh wax. When I opened my hive, the comb they built between the frames and top board broke, spilling honey and nectar. I removed this white wax and set it down for them to clean... I just realized I haven't retrieved it yet.


Yep. I save it and my wife makes hand lotion out of it. I'm just going to wait for all that honey to be capped and then I'm going to remove all of that comb.

jamurfjr, do they give you problems? I mow and weed-eat around mine with no issues. They don't even seem to know the mower is there.


----------



## jamurfjr

Rick said:


> Yep. I save it and my wife makes hand lotion out of it. I'm just going to wait for all that honey to be capped and then I'm going to remove all of that comb.
> 
> jamurfjr, do they give you problems? I mow and weed-eat around mine with no issues. They don't even seem to know the mower is there.


One hive—the weaker of the two—is particularly testy. There may be other issues going on. Guess I need to take another look inside. I don't have any issues when I mow, because I launch kamikaze runs past the hives at a high rate of speed.


----------



## Rick

jamurfjr said:


> One hive—the weaker of the two—is particularly testy. There may be other issues going on. Guess I need to take another look inside. I don't have any issues when I mow, because I launch kamikaze runs past the hives at a high rate of speed.


I do the opposite. I go slow. I've been hit by bees when I move too fast. If I move slow they tend not to run into me. One ran into me and got caught under my sunglasses one day when I was walking fast through the yard. Got stung in the face so I try to avoid that now.


----------



## ScienceGirl

We can guess that bees don't enjoy smacking into objects. If you go slower, they'll see you and can change their flight path accordingly. Also, when you move, you create a black/purple light that they see. This tells them what is moving and where you are, and they are encouraged to sting where this light is.


----------



## jamurfjr

And here I was this whole time thinking I was being "sneaky"—saw the Kimmel skit, btw. Funny.


----------



## ScienceGirl

jamurfjr said:


> And here I was this whole time thinking I was being "sneaky"—saw the Kimmel skit, btw. Funny.


Haha!


----------



## jamurfjr

Beetle traps in place—the kind that fit between frames. Solid bottom boards may be hindering the hives' ability to keep the beetles in check.


----------



## Rick

jamurfjr said:


> Beetle traps in place—the kind that fit between frames. Solid bottom boards may be hindering the hives' ability to keep the beetles in check.


I've always heard it was more the case for mites. I use a bottom board in winter and none in summer and I don't see any difference in the number of beetles.


----------



## jamurfjr

Yeah, you're right...for mites. I was thinking more along the lines of a bottom board/beetle trap combo like the one shown here: http://www.greenbeehives.com/abgrbe.html . The guy who came up with these is local and brought one to class.


----------



## ScienceGirl

I use a screened bottom board for my hives. Allows for better air flow, less mites (though I haven't seen a single one :clap: ), and a cooler hive. There is a removable piece that can be inserted under the screen from the back. Vaseline or a sticky board can be placed on it, to allow a reading for mite populations. During the cooler months it can be put back in to control mites and keep the colony warmer. I've heard that you can keep it out all winter long since the bees only heat the box they're in, but it seems to me that it would cool down the hive... :huh: Thoughts?


----------



## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> I use a screened bottom board for my hives. Allows for better air flow, less mites (though I haven't seen a single one :clap: ), and a cooler hive. There is a removable piece that can be inserted under the screen from the back. Vaseline or a sticky board can be placed on it, to allow a reading for mite populations. During the cooler months it can be put back in to control mites and keep the colony warmer. I've heard that you can keep it out all winter long since the bees only heat the box they're in, but it seems to me that it would cool down the hive... :huh: Thoughts?


The one I was thinking of has mesh with holes large enough for beetles to also fall through—into a tray of cooking oil.


----------



## ScienceGirl

jamurfjr said:


> The one I was thinking of has mesh with holes large enough for beetles to also fall through—into a tray of cooking oil.


Do you insert it _on top _of your bottom board?


----------



## jamurfjr

ScienceGirl said:


> Do you insert it _on top _of your bottom board?


More like into your bottom board. Click the above link. If I weren't so cheap, I'd have one by now.


----------



## ScienceGirl

jamurfjr said:


> More like into your bottom board. Click the above link. If I weren't so cheap, I'd have one by now.


Saw it!

There are instructions listed, so you can DIY!


----------



## ScienceGirl

I want to make comb honey... But the super filled with comb rounds is expensive!!!

I got three bee catalogs: Mann Lake ltd; Dadant; and Brushy Mountain Bee Farm. Now I can compare prices easier then trying to track things down online. Also I can fold over the corners. ^_^ 

Speaking of bee-chores... I need to get into my hive and remove that sugar/syrup feeder insert. No doubt they've already had loads of fun filling it up with comb. I also need to make a caution sign to go around their fence. And to unscrew the entrance reducer in the newer hive without being stung.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Got stung on the inside of my left foot this morning by an unknown insect in the field today... Went up there in flip-flops and thought I got stabbed by a thin piece of dried plant... I pulled it out, and knew it was a sting when it began to hurt more... So I've iced it and it doesn't hurt anymore, but it's swollen and I have a muscle on the side of my foot that's either cramped up or tight or something. And we're backpacking for two days soon. Fun stuff. :stuart: 

EDIT: It was probably a honey bee, seeing as my foot is very swollen. Well, at least it's just a bad reaction - not an allergy.


----------



## MandellaMandy123

Thanks for sending me the link to this thread, ScienceGirl! There is a lot of really good information on here that I will have to remember for someday when I want to start beekeeping. I'm going to follow this thread so I can stay up to date.


----------



## Rick

WolfPuppy said:


> Thanks for sending me the link to this thread, ScienceGirl! There is a lot of really good information on here that I will have to remember for someday when I want to start beekeeping. I'm going to follow this thread so I can stay up to date.


Well we're pretty much all amateurs so keep that in mind. There are many good beekeeping forums.


----------



## ScienceGirl

WolfPuppy said:


> Thanks for sending me the link to this thread, ScienceGirl! There is a lot of really good information on here that I will have to remember for someday when I want to start beekeeping. I'm going to follow this thread so I can stay up to date.


Glad you're here!

What Rick said is true. Also, one of the best things you can do is try to "shadow" or work with a beekeeper to see if you enjoy it. Reading beekeeping books is also very good and your public library probably has some.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Just did a hive-inspection. Everything looks good. Lots of bees, TONS of bur comb (filled a large Mason jar, quart I think, with all of it!). Oh, and... AAH! AAAAH! AHHH!!!! :blink: inch: I think I found a wax moth... I wasn't sure, but I crushed it, and it looks like the pictures of wax moths that are online... It flew to the outside of the supers. Now I'm going to have to check on wax moth distribution... At least I haven't seen *one* varroa mite!


----------



## Rick

Earlier this year I saw evidence of wax moths. So far no issues. I try to be mostly hands off with my bees.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Rick said:


> Earlier this year I saw evidence of wax moths. So far no issues. I try to be mostly hands off with my bees.


I like to let them do their thing, too. I haven't inspected in over a month, maybe two or three? I'll have to check my last post. This thread is pretty much my beekeeping journal... I really need to get it down on a hard copy, though, for my beekeeping binder...

Inspections (AKA clean-up) can help keep working the bees easier for next time if you remove any burr comb from the frames and cover and scrape propolis off of the rims of the hive bodies. Also, you get some lovely wax!


----------



## ScienceGirl

It's that time of year, soon! MEDICATION TIME!!!  :clap: Well, ordering comes after finding out exactly what I need...


----------



## Rick

ScienceGirl said:


> It's that time of year, soon! MEDICATION TIME!!!  :clap: Well, ordering comes after finding out exactly what I need...


What medications? Is it typical to medicate the hives during the year when you only have a couple? I have never used anything on mine and it has been over three years.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Rick said:


> What medications? Is it typical to medicate the hives during the year when you only have a couple? I have never used anything on mine and it has been over three years.


Well, what beekeeping mentor says, goes. lol

Some people medicate a TON, others don't do very much. Depends on personal views and preferences.


----------



## jamurfjr

Rick said:


> What medications? Is it typical to medicate the hives during the year when you only have a couple? I have never used anything on mine and it has been over three years.


Unless absolutely necessary, i.e. treatment of an existing condition, I plan on avoiding medications as well, but like SG stated, the beekeepers in my association are also all over the board on the issue.


----------



## Rick

jamurfjr said:


> Unless absolutely necessary, i.e. treatment of an existing condition, I plan on avoiding medications as well, but like SG stated, the beekeepers in my association are also all over the board on the issue.


Yeah nothing goes in mine unless absolutely needed and so far there has been zero need. I tend to listen to mentors and then follow up with my own research. I would look deeper into it before just blindly following someone else's lead.


----------



## ScienceGirl

Rick said:


> Yeah nothing goes in mine unless absolutely needed and so far there has been zero need. I tend to listen to mentors and then follow up with my own research. I would look deeper into it before just blindly following someone else's lead.


He recommended Apivar for varroa treatment, and to put dry sugar in the feeders since there is no nectar flow on.


----------



## Rick

ScienceGirl said:


> He recommended Apivar for varroa treatment, and to put dry sugar in the feeders since there is no nectar flow on.


Do you have varroa? Maybe it is the difference between West and East coasts but I've always heard dry sugar was a big no no. If he is successful I guess he can't be totally wrong!


----------



## ScienceGirl

Rick said:


> Do you have varroa? Maybe it is the difference between West and East coasts but I've always heard dry sugar was a big no no. If he is successful I guess he can't be totally wrong!


Apparently the bees add moisture to the sugar, then cure it and turn it into "honey" for their stores. He does this with his hundreds of commercial hives for pollination, and I have sugar, so it's worth a shot! If it makes my bees happy, then yay! Haha! (The sugar isn't for use against varroa mites, just as a food source for the bees.)


----------



## Rick

Honey harvest complete. The large jar is a half gallon. Not bad for one hive.


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## jamurfjr

Wow, you're all set(with honey) for awhile. Since my hives are new, I don't plan on harvesting this year. However, I do believe my bees have/will have accumulated enough stores to last the winter without the need to feed them.


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## sally

That is wonderful, Rick!


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## Rick

jamurfjr said:


> Wow, you're all set(with honey) for awhile. Since my hives are new, I don't plan on harvesting this year. However, I do believe my bees have/will have accumulated enough stores to last the winter without the need to feed them.


It is a bit late to harvest but I haven't all year. I actually meant to leave one big comb of this in there but it fell off the bar when working in the hive (disadvantage of top bar hives) and I had to remove it. I'll have to start feeding them now.


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## devetaki9

Wow.... I really want to start keeping bees in the spring, reading this thread only makes me want to do it more, WOW. I am very jealous of you all  Nice job to everyone for their endeavors!


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## Rick

devetaki9 said:


> Wow.... I really want to start keeping bees in the spring, reading this thread only makes me want to do it more, WOW. I am very jealous of you all  Nice job to everyone for their endeavors!


Start doing your research now if you really want to get into this.


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## devetaki9

I am lol, it keeps me awake on my overnights at the hospital (mainly lol).


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## jamurfjr

devetaki9 said:


> Wow.... I really want to start keeping bees in the spring, reading this thread only makes me want to do it more, WOW. I am very jealous of you all  Nice job to everyone for their endeavors!


You won't regret it. Honey aside, for me, it's very rewarding. Everyday, I walk over to the hives, stop, and watch the bees go about their business. They are an entertaining addition to the yard.


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## Peter Clausen

If anybody has a pile of (dead) bees in decent condition from seasonal die-off, I'd be interested in chatting with you.

I've got a local friend with a few hives so I'll have to hit him up too. He gave me my first jar of honey with actual honeycomb in it a few years back. I'd never actually seen honeycomb up until that point so it was an experience to see...and eat! I mixed some into my oatmeal with blueberries and bananas for ~breakfast yesterday.


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## Rick

Well Peter I can't say I've ever had a seasonal die off occur. That is something that should not happen.


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## sally

You all prob saw this today but I posted anyway to show the benefits of having your own honey supply. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-honey-launderers--uncovering-the-largest-food-fraud-in-u-s--history-171454285.html


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## Rick

Yep. I don't touch store bought honey. I am fortunate to have my own and before that I got it from a local keeper so I knew the origins.


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## Peter Clausen

Yeah, I asked my friend at work tonight and he gave me a look that pretty much reflected what you said in words. He did say he sees dead drones, but his other question was effectively, "even if there were a bunch of dead ones in there, how are you going to get them out?". I suspect he has a protective suit but doesn't want to unnecessarily disturb his bees. He also runs a pretty big organic farm and runs a booth at a farmer's market.

I used to have a contact who was a biology teacher. He had a neat set up in his classroom. Clear plastic tubes let the bees go through the wall to the outdoors. He always had a pile of dead bees for me, but I guess they must have just been accumulation over months, rather than the die-off I had suspected. So, where do all the bees go in the winter (naturally...i.e. wild bees)? I see queen ants and yellowjackets and bumble bee queens in the spring, each year. I figured queens overwintered and honey bee queens would too. So, does that mean that honey bees in human-built hives have a more stable (non-seasonal) life cycle, or is this one of those situations where all the workers are females under the control of the queen and mostly stick around as long as she's around?


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## Rick

Peter Clausen said:


> Yeah, I asked my friend at work tonight and he gave me a look that pretty much reflected what you said in words. He did say he sees dead drones, but his other question was effectively, "even if there were a bunch of dead ones in there, how are you going to get them out?". I suspect he has a protective suit but doesn't want to unnecessarily disturb his bees. He also runs a pretty big organic farm and runs a booth at a farmer's market.
> 
> I used to have a contact who was a biology teacher. He had a neat set up in his classroom. Clear plastic tubes let the bees go through the wall to the outdoors. He always had a pile of dead bees for me, but I guess they must have just been accumulation over months, rather than the die-off I had suspected. So, where do all the bees go in the winter (naturally...i.e. wild bees)? I see queen ants and yellowjackets and bumble bee queens in the spring, each year. I figured queens overwintered and honey bee queens would too. So, does that mean that honey bees in human-built hives have a more stable (non-seasonal) life cycle, or is this one of those situations where all the workers are females under the control of the queen and mostly stick around as long as she's around?


I get dead bees, especially after heavy rains. The other bees remove them from the hive. Drones are kicked out at the end of summer to die since they do no work in the hive. With the exception of the drones, honeybees remain alive inside the hive all winter by eating their stored honey. Our climate here is pretty mild so it is not unusual to see the bees foraging in the middle of winter. 40 degrees F seems to be about the minimum temperature for the bees to be active. They cluster within the hive during cold weather and create heat.


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## ScienceGirl

Sorry I haven't posted. Mantids have all been released and school keeps me very busy. Hope you, your bees, and your mantids are all doing well.  



devetaki9 said:


> I am lol, it keeps me awake on my overnights at the hospital (mainly lol).


Honey bees require fairly low maintenance. They care for themselves. Beekeepers mainly just have to collect honey, monitor the hives and prevent problems from occurring (disease, colony collapse due to loss of queen, etc).

If you're interested in beekeeping, you're on the right track! I read A TON of books before I got my hives. See if you can maybe accompany a local beekeeper on their next visit to the bee yard. Also, if you're planning on starting up hives in the spring, you should plan on placing your order for your bees and equipment the fall or winter before so that you can assemble equipment.



Peter Clausen said:


> If anybody has a pile of (dead) bees in decent condition from seasonal die-off, I'd be interested in chatting with you.
> 
> I've got a local friend with a few hives so I'll have to hit him up too. He gave me my first jar of honey with actual honeycomb in it a few years back. I'd never actually seen honeycomb up until that point so it was an experience to see...and eat! I mixed some into my oatmeal with blueberries and bananas for ~breakfast yesterday.





Peter Clausen said:


> Yeah, I asked my friend at work tonight and he gave me a look that pretty much reflected what you said in words. He did say he sees dead drones, but his other question was effectively, "even if there were a bunch of dead ones in there, how are you going to get them out?". I suspect he has a protective suit but doesn't want to unnecessarily disturb his bees. He also runs a pretty big organic farm and runs a booth at a farmer's market.
> 
> I used to have a contact who was a biology teacher. He had a neat set up in his classroom. Clear plastic tubes let the bees go through the wall to the outdoors. He always had a pile of dead bees for me, but I guess they must have just been accumulation over months, rather than the die-off I had suspected. So, where do all the bees go in the winter (naturally...i.e. wild bees)? I see queen ants and yellowjackets and bumble bee queens in the spring, each year. I figured queens overwintered and honey bee queens would too. So, does that mean that honey bees in human-built hives have a more stable (non-seasonal) life cycle, or is this one of those situations where all the workers are females under the control of the queen and mostly stick around as long as she's around?


What do you do with the dead bees?

In the winter, honey bees stay in their hive. They form a cluster, with the queen in the middle, and take turns being on the outside and being in the inside of the cluster. They'll flex muscles that are similar to pectoralis major (pecs) in humans. This creates heat that will warm the area that they're in - not the whole hive. Throughout the winter, they'll continue moving upwards and uncapping and eating the honey that they've stored.


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## devetaki9

Sounds good sciencegirl, thank you for the input, I will locate a local bee keeper and see if I can apprentice with them this spring. Gonna start ordering some gear, I know Rick mentioned kits were just fine to start with


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## Rick

Just tucked the bees in for the winter. We're finally getting a cold enough night this week. Of course later next week back into the 70's. This involved installing the bottom board and the mouse guard.


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## Rick

Lost an entire hive!


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## sally

Oh no...What happened?


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## Rick

sally said:


> Oh no...What happened?


Hard to say really. I went out last Friday to change the syrup jar and noticed there were only a couple bees around despite it being 55 degrees. I tapped on the hive and was met with silence. Finding this odd I opened it up even though I had to leave in a few minutes. No bees inside. I noticed some yellow jackets just causally walking into the hive. So I sealed the opening to protect any honey.

Next day I took it all apart. There were some dead bees but not that many so I think they just left. They didn't starve because I extracted a gallon and a half of honey that day which is more than they need around here for the winter. There was some evidence of American foulbrood so I sent some brood samples off to the USDA. They do free tests in case you didn't know.

I also did a mite count and the mite load was very high. I believe the varroa got them this time of year which isn't uncommon. Even though this hive was nearly four years old and never had a problem for whatever reason it took them down this fall. Sad because I had a lot of bees just days before this. I'll be getting a new hive this spring.


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## sally

Sorry you lost the hive.


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## jamurfjr

Sorry, Rick.


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## Rick

Got my results back from the USDA bee lab. No evidence of AFB but they detected Varroa which I already knew. Somewhat good news.


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## ScienceGirl

Rick said:


> Got my results back from the USDA bee lab. No evidence of AFB but they detected Varroa which I already knew. Somewhat good news.


That's very interesting. I knew that you could send in samples, but I didn't know it was free. There're also state inspectors, but I'm not sure about whether there are charges for those...

Both hives are doing well here. I thought I was going to lose one because the bee count was low last time I inspected, but there were more bees flying out of that one today than the other hive. Since Thanksgiving, the weather has cooperated enough twice to allow the girls out for their cleansing flights. They went out today and Friday. Everyone seems to be doing well.

The weirdest part about going into fall was not seeing all the hive activity out the kitchen window. Being able to listen to the side of the hive and hearing their buzzing was so reassuring. I had been pretty worried about whether they'd winter over well or not.

We also had a 50 mph windstorm yesterday, but it didn't knock the hives over (thank goodness).


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## ScienceGirl

Thought I'd share a bit of my favorite pieces of honey bee poetry and quotes... ^_^ 

“Bees do have a smell, you know, and if they don't they should, for their feet are dusted with spices from a million flowers.”

― Ray Bradbury, _Dandelion Wine_

“I like pulling on a baggy bee suit, forgetting myself and getting as close to the bees' lives as they will let me, remembering in the process that there is more to life than the merely human.” 

― Sue Hubbell, _A Book of Bees: And How to Keep Them_

“The bee is domesticated but not tamed.” 
― William Longgood

“Unrealistic? I think not, that bee was about to murder me.” 
― Devyn Dawson, _The Light Tamer_

_^though it wasn't a pretty piece of poetry, that one made me laugh  _


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## ScienceGirl

56 f and sunny today. This is the third day this winter that's been warm enough (lower than about 48 is where mine draw the line) to permit cleansing flights and water and pollen gathering. There were definitely very happy girls flying about.

I'm not sure what plant they're harvesting from, but they're bringing home green pollen. They seemed to be much preferring the water in my dormant flytrap's dish on the deck to any other avaliable source.

Still have 2/2 hives. Super happy about that since the "trouble hive" appears to be problem free right now.


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## ScienceGirl

Drones and dandelions, oh my!


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## jamurfjr

This spring, both of our original hives swarmed. We were able to capture two swarms, bringing us up to four hives. The bees have been testy(fluctuating weather, I think), so I've gotten my share of stings. How is everyone else doing with their bees?


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