# Creobroter



## twolfe (Sep 18, 2011)

Last February I got 6 Creobroter nymphs from a trusted breeder on this forum. She wasn't sure what Creobroter species they were. I had 2 females and 1 male that made it to adults. Only one of my females laid ooths. For some reason, only the first ooth hatched, but mama is still with me and continues to lay ooths. I raised 9 of her babies communally, and 7 of them made it to adults. I'm just wondering if anyone can positively identify this species.

This is a female that molted to an adult about 10 days ago. This was shortly after she inflated her wings:







Here are a couple from today. I don't know if this is the same female. A couple of these have more red on the face than their mama does.


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## angelofdeathzz (Sep 18, 2011)

Beautiful !!! I love that first shot the most, all the colors.


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## twolfe (Sep 18, 2011)

Yeah, I wish she would have stayed that way. Still, some of these are more colorful than their mom.


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## sporeworld (Sep 19, 2011)

I'm terrible with ID's, but I think it's Creo P. eye spots on the wings are really close.


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## psyconiko (Sep 19, 2011)

Not Creo pictipennis for sure but maybe gemmatus.


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## Termite48 (Sep 19, 2011)

The wing spots are very close to being exactly like my C. pictipennis. These are very nice pics, but I suppose that is to be expected from someone who photos swans from a kayac. I did not appreciate how pretty these ubiquitous little creatures can be. I will try to think of someone who could use these.


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## lunarstorm (Sep 19, 2011)

They look a lot like my c. pictipennis, I should post some pics of my adult male for comparison.


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## Precarious (Sep 19, 2011)

Cute, I like the red face.


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## Precarious (Sep 19, 2011)

I don't know if this helps but...


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## psyconiko (Sep 19, 2011)

I am also terrible at identifying species,but C. pictipennis has a uniform green pronotum so I still believe this is not a C pictipennis. :helpsmilie:


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## Gill (Sep 20, 2011)

In this newsletter on page 3 there is a piece called Creo confusion that discusses some of the _Creobroter_

http://www.ukmantisforums.co.uk/newsletters/Feb2011.pdf


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## psyconiko (Sep 20, 2011)

Gill said:


> In this newsletter on page 3 there is a piece called Creo confusion that discusses some of the _Creobroter_
> 
> http://www.ukmantisf...ers/Feb2011.pdf


There are pictures of every Creo species except C. pictipennis,.. :helpsmilie:


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## RevWillie (Sep 20, 2011)

Nikkko said:


> I am also terrible at identifying species,but C. pictipennis has a *uniform green pronotum* so I still believe this is not a C pictipennis. :helpsmilie:


Well... these are supposed to be C. pictipennis and they have a mottled pronotum, so... I say pictipennis


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## psyconiko (Sep 21, 2011)

Well... these are supposed to be C. pictipennis and they have a green pronotum, so... I say not pictipennis....ahahaha I think some of us are color blind!!

I hope I am right because I have been selling my Creo as pictipennis.


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## twolfe (Sep 21, 2011)

Well, I think that title in that article Gill sent sums it up: Creobroter confusion


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## psyconiko (Sep 25, 2011)

Ok I checked to be sure and C. pictipennis has a green pronotum with a thin yellow binding so My Creos are pictipennis and yours are not.

I think they are probably C.gemmatus.


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## Termite48 (Sep 25, 2011)

Perhaps someone has succeeded at a mating of Creo. pictipennis and gemmatus and produced a new look. Of course the proof is if they can in turn reproduce this same colored pronatum. My Creobroters, which I have originally purchased from another member as C.pictipennis and in the 1st generation bred by me, have the brown pronatum. There are often color variations within a species, that do not make it another species within the Genus. This is a general rule in all of the Animal Kingdom. The true test is to see of the twenty or so known species of Creobroter vary in only the color of the _pronatum_. In fact, as I recall, one of my own Creobroter pictipennis males was bred to Tammy's female. Is that true, Tammy? The fact is that there are clear differences on the wing spots which make some ID easy. It will be a good project for someone. Maybe I can in the winter months when other now more pressing tasks take a back seat to the search of _truth of this matter_.


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## gripen (Sep 25, 2011)

wasn't some one doing a cross breed of creos a couple weeks back? they got an ooth that is all i can remember.


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## psyconiko (Sep 25, 2011)

Yes I did some crossbreed between pictipennis and elongatus but I have been clearly warned not to confuse them if succeeding because we could then lost the original bloodline if mixed up and sold(that makes sense).

I bred gemmatus,pictipennis,elongatus,apicalis and meleagris.As I told before I am terrible at identifying species...BUT I am sorry to insist, pictipennis has only a green pronotum,I mean it is my 3rd generation and I have never seen any color variation with pictipennis pronotum when adult.

Maybe I have been misinformed when buying my pictipennis?

We should really clear this out! :helpsmilie:


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## mantiscraze (Sep 26, 2011)

I think these, along with mine (Rich's), are Creobroter apicalis. Yen would probably know.


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## mantiscraze (Sep 26, 2011)

Here are some evidence to clear this once and for all. This is from http://igm.mantisonline.info Creo apicalis and ooth.







More pics of Creobroter apicalis from others


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## mantiscraze (Sep 27, 2011)

Scientific Name Creobroter pictipennis Reference M. Beier. 1934. Mantodea. Fam. Mantidae. Subfam. Hymenopodinae. Genera Insectorum de P. Wytsman 196:1-37 Sex Male

What do you think about the pronotum on this sketch?


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## mantiscraze (Sep 27, 2011)

For color comparison, here is a sketch for

Scientific Name Creobroter urbanus  Reference M. Beier. 1934. Mantodea. Fam. Mantidae. Subfam. Hymenopodinae. Genera Insectorum de P. Wytsman 196:1-37 Sex Female


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## RevWillie (Sep 28, 2011)

I don't know what to think anymore.  Those C. apicalis look right... but conformation seems chunkier and with bigger heads?

Is there a taxonomic Key anywhere for the Creobroter species that we can check?

Can we track the 'Forum Donation' Creos back to their source (before Mark)?


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## artemiswins (Sep 28, 2011)

hmm so I ordered a 'pictipennis' L3 nymph and it hasn't come yet. i wonder what it will _actually_ be...


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## RevWillie (Sep 28, 2011)

artemiswins said:


> hmm so I ordered a 'pictipennis' L3 nymph and it hasn't come yet. i wonder what it will _actually_ be...


Or if we'll even be able to tell! :lol: 'Creo Confusion' indeed.


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## mantiscraze (Sep 28, 2011)

I bet that it will look just like the ones Tammy posted. The only different looking, or non-apicalis looking pictipennis that I've seen are those Nikkko posted. Anyways, they are very difficult to ID, but all great looking nonetheless.



artemiswins said:


> hmm so I ordered a 'pictipennis' L3 nymph and it hasn't come yet. i wonder what it will _actually_ be...


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## animalexplorer (Oct 19, 2011)

Great shots! The secocond picture from the top looks as though it's sticking a tongue out at the viewer.


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## psyconiko (Oct 23, 2011)

Ok for apicalis!


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