# One big question



## Mantis Lady (Aug 23, 2018)

I had 8 mantids of 3 different species before  I went on vacation. I mean 8 in the week before  we left.  In that week I lost 6 of the 7 mantids to something what I call the "sickness" The day before they seemed fine and the next day they getting restless  (stress?) and they end all with their limbs cramped. I replaced feeders, cleaned their homes. but in  short I had to let the 6 go with pain in my heart. and the 2 survivers  were doing fine.

we had all 2 good weeks with no problems.

we came home and normal life started till this morning: Hunter seemed spooked of something. I saw later a fly. Maybe the fly spooked her. She was doing threat pose and looked very stressed. I decided to cover her home in the hope to calm her down and gave her honey-water  But i was worried if it could be the sickness. I sepparated her home from the others. After my afternoon nap I saw her getting worse. Like the 6 were a few weeks ago.

I found her like this this afternoon:







I gave her some honey-water. She drank it.






Here you can see how the is pose of her legs . Not good.What is going on? I fear I will loose her too. But just gave her honey water and hope she will recover,....

I saved this girl 2x her life, but fear this time I can't save her...


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## Synapze (Aug 23, 2018)

Oh no. ? How old is Hunter?


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 24, 2018)

Think she is 2 months old as adult now. not Old.

I found her in the same position like in pic 2. I am really worried... has someone seen this before with the symtomes I have described?


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 25, 2018)

It is affecting feeders too: found a few crickets behaving like Hunter and the old ones. I made a video of to so you can see the symptones:



The grasshoppers seem unaffected. Sad thing is, I see Ashoka behaving differently too. Think I should remove the crickets, maybe the others are infected too but not visible yet.

I don't get it.... I hate this. had to let hunter go, honey gave no improvement...

Feeling bad right now.


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 25, 2018)

I will add this vid again: Flash was the first who got it. At first they stop eating. Think that is first. Then they acting spooked. and in the end they cramps....



I do'n't know what it is, still the big qestion. But I will leave here as much information as i can...


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## Synapze (Aug 25, 2018)

Is it possible that some type of toxin has entered your home?

If you have the option it would probably be best to dispose of all crickets. They are obviouly sick and/or poisoned.


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 25, 2018)

> If you have the option it woul﻿d probably be best to dispose of all crickets.


I have put the crickets in the freezer. Ashoka is gone too. She was barely alive when I found her  This afternoon she was standing on her legs but spooked. and now she in in freezer too.

I fear for the 3 little ones  If I new the "sickness" was still in my home, i would't have bought the new ones.



> Is it possible that some type of toxin has entered your home? ﻿


Like what? Do you have an idea? I have no clue. Thinking about a virus that came into my home that effects insects. (grasshoppers seems all fine and they were bought on the same day as the crickets.) Hubby has no clue either.

I won't buy any mantids till I know the "sickness" is out of my home. it is terrible to loose your pets to this. Dying of old age is ok, but not this.


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## Synapze (Aug 26, 2018)

Have any pest control products (or disinfectant sprays, room deodorizers, aerosol sprays) been used in or near your home recently? Any neighbors having pest control performed or lawns sprayed? I ask because where I live a county truck drives through the neighborhood on a routine basis spraying a cloud of pesticide to control the mosquito population... unfortunately it kills much more than just the mosquitoes and I get worried every time I hear the truck. Have you used any types of real plants in the enclosures recently? Especially chrysanthemums as they can be deadly to invertebrates. Have you started using any new cleaning products recently? Perhaps the crickets were exposed to some type of chemical toxin? I've seen what toxic exposure does to the central nervous system of invertebrates and it looks very similar. As far as viral possibilities, I have no knowledge.

It's sooo easy to tell from your posts that you take good care of your mantids, so there has to be another factor involved. In my opinion, those crickets look very suspect. It seems I read a cricket horror story every week, but I can't speak from experience on that because I'm too paranoid to bring them in my house.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. ? 

Hopefully, someone more knowledgeable will pop in soon and respond with something helpful.


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## kwright (Aug 26, 2018)

Did you clean their cages with something different? What kind of water or food are they getting? If it's tap water is there a boil water warning in your area?


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 26, 2018)

> Have any pest control products (or disinfectant sprays, room deodorizers, aerosol sprays) been used in or near your home recently?


Nope I never used that stuff in my home.



Synapze said:


> In my opinion, those crickets look very suspect.


that is why I took them out. what i don't trust i don't give my pets.



Synapze said:


> Have you used any types of real plants in the enclosures recently?


Nope. I have used always fake plants. Easier to clean



kwright said:


> Did you clean their cages with something different﻿?﻿﻿


I use plain tap water to clean their cages. (I heard cleaning materials are not safe) and paper cloths to dry them. and  it is drink water I use.



kwright said:


> What kind of water or food are they getting?


The feeder  dubias grasshoppers, crickets) insects are getting cricket food and water gel that I clean every day. If i have salad leaves they get some too.



Synapze said:


> I'm so sorry this is happening to you. ?


I am really sick of this. Those 8 mantids brought me happiness. I am thinking of something to make in their remenberence. I will not forget them.


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 26, 2018)

Synapze said:


> Hopefully, someone more knowledgeable will pop in soon and respond with something helpful.


I hope it too. I want to enjoy mantids around me in my own home. I am so careful with the 3 nymphs, and I want to see them grow up and getting wings and not die of the sickness..


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## Synapze (Aug 26, 2018)

Little Mantis said:


> Those 8 mantids brought me happiness. I am thinking of something﻿ ﻿to make in their remenberence. I will not forget them.


I understand what you mean. ? 

Google has a service where you can upload your favorite photos and they will create a book of photos for $9.99. I've been saving up my favorite shots to have one made. I think it would be great to have a nice memory book for the coffee table.


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 26, 2018)

Yeah. I was think doing that too: to creating a photobook. I have tons of pics of them


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## River Dane (Aug 26, 2018)

The video of Flash kind of reminds me of this old YouTube video of an ant that got sprayed with Raid. Of course, the ant was sprayed directly, and so died in a matter of minutes. No idea if pesticides played a role, as most aren’t very harmful to mantids, but it’s possible.


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 27, 2018)

I think indeed the "sickness" is infecting the nervouss stystem. But with me it is way slower. In my home we don't use pesticides because no need for it. I don't know if a virus excists that killes insects by messing up their nervous systems.


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## MantisGirl13 (Aug 27, 2018)

I am so sorry that you are having trouble with your mantids again. It is so sad! I hope that we can get to the bottom of this!

- MantisGirl13


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 27, 2018)

MantisGirl13 said:


> I am so sorry that you are having trouble with your mantids again. It is so sad! I hope that we can get to the bottom of this! ﻿


yeah, I hope it too.. I have still no clue what is going on here.

Saw a grasshopper making strange movements too. Removed them i dont wanna take risk, Bah. Only the dubias seem not affected by this.. ( have them a long time) I fed the little ones yesterday dubia goo. Those flies are too slow with coming out of their cocons. But the L4s are hard to handfeed. Everything looks so big in their eyes. Cleopatra enjoyed a piece of a dubia.

The dubia female I wanted to give Chochise for distraction during mating is still alive and healthy.

I thinking what to buy, would it be safe to buy some fruitflies so the little ones can eat that, or staying with dubia goo? the flies ares low. I have even a box with fly pupea standing on my comp to fasten the transformation  with heat that comes from comp and they will come so I can feed them to the nymphs.

It is so hard to think what is safe for them to eat.


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## MantisGirl13 (Aug 28, 2018)

Fruit flies can be good food for nymphs like that. I have my budwings trained, so if I hold a piece of dubia goo, or moth about an inch in front of their faces, they will come up and take it from me right away, without even tasting it first!

- MantisGirl13


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## kwright (Aug 28, 2018)

I heard somewhere that water gel may have chemicals in it that, given too frequently could be bad for the feeder bugs. I wonder also if maybe there is mold in your water gel? Or in the feeder food?


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 28, 2018)

MantisGirl13 said:


> Fruit flies can be good food for nymphs like that.


Yeah, mantis 2 ate directly the fruitflies. Mantis1 not yet I hope. They molted last night. Mantis1 abdomen is very flat, it needs to eat. hope hunger feeling

will come and dinner is ready.



kwright said:


> I heard somewhere that water gel may have chemicals in it that, given too frequently could be bad for the feeder bugs. I wonder also if maybe there is mold in your water gel? Or in the feeder food?﻿ ﻿


oh? thought that was safe to give to feeders?. so they don't drown in water? It looks clear, The food i opend a few weeks ago in vacation. Looks normal too..


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## Prayingmantisqueen (Aug 28, 2018)

Little Mantis said:


> oh﻿? th﻿ought that was safe to give to feeders?. so they don't drown in water? It looks clear, The food i opend a few weeks ago in vacation. Looks normal too..﻿


I have heard, although have not experienced as I don't use the water gel that it can expand in the mantids digestive track and cause death. 

I just mist the cricket cage lightly or would use a sponge with water.


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## MantisGirl13 (Aug 29, 2018)

That is interesting. I think you should try to not use the water gel and see what happens. Hopefully that is the problem! I am glad #2 is eating, and I hope that #1 eats soon!

- MantisGirl13


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 29, 2018)

@Prayingmantisqueen @MantisGirl13

I saw #1 eating  1 fruittfly.. It got at least something inside it's belly. hope it eats more fruitfflies. But seems not a big eater..

I removed the watergel and gave a piece of sponge with water in it. I don't have crickets at the moment I have bought baby grasshoppers for Cleopatra. it is weird i have ben been using water gel for feeders at least a half year. But i am still wondering if the blue bottle flies will still hatch. There is more meat on them.


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## Prayingmantisqueen (Aug 29, 2018)

I hope that it works better for you! I hope they keep eating good


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## kwright (Aug 29, 2018)

Little Mantis said:


> I removed the watergel and gave a piece of sponge with water in it.


I would change the sponge out regularly. Not clean, but change. And is it a regular kitchen sponge or a sea sponge? Kitchen sponges can have dyes that will make your insects sick and sponges themselves are notorious for holding bacteria and mold when left wet.


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## Prayingmantisqueen (Aug 29, 2018)

Prayingmantisqueen said:


> I have heard, although have not experienced as I don't use the water gel that it can expand in the mantids digestive track and cause death.
> 
> I just mist the cricket cage lightly or would use a sponge with water.


It would need to be a sponge that is natural or has no dyes in it. Replace frequently like kwright mentioned.


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## Jessie (Aug 30, 2018)

Im sorry hugs.


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## Mantis Lady (Aug 31, 2018)

*me hugs back*


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## Mantis Lady (Sep 4, 2018)

I feel bad?, I lost Cleo to this sickness. Cleo ignored the fruitflies, they were too small for her. Somehow the other 2 seems not affected. I am happy for that but I still fear for them too. Could it be the feeders like cickets and grasshopper disease what infects the mantids too? or maybe their food, but he feeders were eating it since i have them.

The little ones are only eating fruitflies and they are fine. My bluebottle flies didnt hatch, don't know how long that takes. Maybe my fridge is too cold. I bought that for them to start with.... even the little L4s ate them with ease.

*sighs*


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## Prayingmantisqueen (Sep 4, 2018)

Not Cleo!!! Oh No! She was so cute! I feel like crying ? and their not even mine!


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## Mantis Lady (Sep 4, 2018)

She was .I wanted her to grow up and getting her wings....I loved her looks, her purple eyes and her patterns on her body. she was great.


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## MantisGirl13 (Sep 4, 2018)

I am so sorry, @Little Mantis! Cleo was a cute little mantis, and she will be missed. We have to figure out what this sickness is and how to prevent it!!!!

- MantisGirl13


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## Mantis Lady (Sep 5, 2018)

Yeah, I hope I can find out whitout losing more mantis lives.

update:

For now the little hierodulas are fine. they are eating fine. I saw them eating fruitflies. (That makes me happy.) It is not something airborn, I think. It has to do with feeders, or the food/drink they were given. I stopped with water gel. Think i need to trow it everthing away and start with fresh food for the feeders.  I still have baby grasshoppers, they seem doing fine. no deaths the last couple of days.


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## MantisGirl13 (Sep 6, 2018)

Good. The hierodulas sure are cute!

- MantisGirl13


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## Mantis Lady (Sep 6, 2018)

oh yeah they are, it is a smaller hierdoula species. I didnt want the H. membranaceas yet because of Cochise and Bob. I am very happy they are doing fine.  I hope that with trowing old stuff away and buying everything new: (feeders, food for them) will stop the sickness.

Leyra likes to explore too like Cochise. Running out of her cup when I open it to feed her?. She is too small to roam around my desk like Cochise did. Atyeo is calm. He stayed on his fakeflower. new pics of them in their topic


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## MantisGirl13 (Sep 6, 2018)

Yeah.   Leyra sounds a lot like Cochise, except for the species of course.

- MantisGirl13


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