# Idolomorpha cf lateralis - rainbow? (look out - many photos)



## nepenti (Jul 26, 2007)

While most of you are sleeping now in USA, I prepared some more photos of another beauty. Hope those colours fascinate you as me. Here is a sub and adult male:


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## Morpheus uk (Jul 27, 2007)

woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow

Amaizing! i would love to see a adult threat display


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## nepenti (Jul 27, 2007)

I will make it for sure Now I'm waiting for hatching cause I have one ootheca. Will seeeee...


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## Fisherman_Brazil (Jul 27, 2007)

beautiful creature, and wonderful photography they are.

way to go! brilliant!


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## Ian (Jul 27, 2007)

Fantastic photos! And what a beautiful specimens. Thanks for sharing


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## Lee Slikkers (Jul 27, 2007)

Stunning pics, the close-ups of the head &amp; antennae are my favorite...

Lee


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## robo mantis (Jul 27, 2007)

WOW :shock: It looks like Idolomantis but in grassmantis form


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## yen_saw (Jul 27, 2007)

Lukasz, your pics really woke me up this morning :shock: great pics man.....!!


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## Asa (Jul 27, 2007)

Yeah we're lazy bums, great work!!!


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## nepenti (Jul 27, 2007)

Nymphs from your ootheca (Texas unicorn) woke me up Yen  Thanks for your comments


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## yen_saw (Jul 27, 2007)

They hatched??!! hooray


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## OGIGA (Jul 27, 2007)

Definitely a great looking species!


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## nepenti (Jul 27, 2007)

> They hatched??!! hooray


Yep, almost 50 babies! hooray!


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## Sparky (Jul 27, 2007)

wow so long! :shock:


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## bubforever (Jul 27, 2007)

i want one


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## bubforever (Jul 27, 2007)

i want one


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## hibiscusmile (Jul 27, 2007)

They almost look like the head of a bird! How beautiful it is :!:


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## RodG (Jul 27, 2007)

Outstanding photos of a very cool mantid!!!


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## yen_saw (Jul 29, 2007)

> > They hatched??!! hooray
> 
> 
> Yep, almost 50 babies! hooray!


WOW sweet!! looking forward to your Texas Unicorn pics.


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## MikhailsDinos (Aug 25, 2007)

This species looks very much the same as the ones I found at my birthplace in Namibia Africa.


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## Kruszakus (Jan 8, 2008)

I have some questions...

How many molts for this mantis to become adult?

And how do you incubate the ooth?

By the way - I bought mine as L1/L2 and after only one month they are already L5! Talk about growth!


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## Birdfly (Jan 11, 2008)

Stunning and nice to see some great shots of them too


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## Kruszakus (Jan 27, 2008)

Today I took a picture of my freshly moulted adult female - sweet, isn't she?


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## Mantida (Jan 27, 2008)

Kruszakus said:


> Today I took a picture of my freshly moulted adult female - sweet, isn't she?


Woah, nice. B) 

Like I. diabolica, do they get color a few days later or once they harden up?


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## Kruszakus (Jan 27, 2008)

Yeah - I have another female, which moulted on Friday night - her wings are purple in the middle, and have green/yellow lateral parts - sweet.

But I was mislead with this mantis - they used Empusa pennata picture for the auction, so I was hoping for some lobes on the abdomen, and a colorful thorax - but this mantis has nothing like that, hehehe.

I'm pretty satisfied, although they were not worth the amount of money I had to pay for them - I was expecting something more extraordinary.


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## Gurd (Jan 28, 2008)

Stunning mantis

Good luck with breeding them


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## Kruszakus (Jan 28, 2008)

I hope I will breed them - they may not be as exotic as Empusa pennata or Gongylus gongylodes, but I have a lot of fun with them. Plus, they are the fastest growing species I've ever seen - I purchased them on 09.12.2007 as L1/L2 and they are already adult!

Well, anyway - with ten females, and only three males I'm in for a difficult task.


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## yen_saw (Jan 29, 2008)

That female looks hot Kruszakus!!  Best of luck in breeding.

Had one ooth hatched out for me recently, looks very much like a baby Empusa mantis.


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## Kruszakus (Jan 29, 2008)

Wow! I did not know that you were keeping this mantis! You must tell me at what temperature you were keeping those ooths, how often you were spraying them and what was the hatching rate - I'm really curious!

I must say, that after five days I took a good look at my first adult female - and I changed my mind about this species. It really is like a rainbow! The colors are mindblowing! Even the thorax or legs are not in one, solid color - just awesome! And the rate at which they are growing is just shocking - I counted only six moults for both sexes!

How nice, I was kinds worried that about 180$ for fourteen nymphs was too much, but so far it seems like well spent money.

One advice - don't use wingless fruitflies (but I guess you figured that out long time ago), they were totaly not working with this species.


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## yen_saw (Jan 29, 2008)

I don't have the adult specimen, these are oothecae traded, i kept them at 90-95F, mist once every other day. Hatching rate is about 10-15 nymphs normally, this one i have here hatch 6 the first day and another 4 later in the evening. I use turkish glider, not wingless fruti flies, the turkish glider jumps like a flea and that is good enough to get their attention. Wild fruit fly is good too, especially for species that prefer flying insects.


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## Kruszakus (Jan 29, 2008)

You'll find this species surprisingly easy to rear, but I guess you already know how to keep them, after all you ain't a fluke, hehehe.

Be ready to provide them with a lot of space - if you decide to keep them around 35C daytime, they will probably become adult in about 8-9 weeks.

I hope you will do well with other of your Empusidae as well - man, what a beautiful family they are!


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## Christian (Jan 29, 2008)

Most Empusids have to be kept warm to hot, generally not below 30°C.

Once I bred _Hypsicorypha gracilis_ (similar to _Idolomorpha_, but even more slender, light brown in color and with a very long horn) and they got 35-40° every day, on summer days even up to almost 50°C. The tropical species (e.g. _Idolomorpha, Idolomantis, Hemiempusa_, some _Empusa_ species) are the species with the "coolest" conditions required (30-35°). Palearctic _Empusa_ (during summer), _Hypsicorypha, Gongylus_ and _Blepharopsis_ do better with 35-40°.


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## Christian (Jan 29, 2008)

@ Yen: what are turkish gliders? :huh:


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## Kruszakus (Jan 29, 2008)

You can get _Hypsicorypha gracilis_ anywhere now? I have not heard of anyone keeping this species.


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## Christian (Jan 29, 2008)

It's out of stock now. As far as I remember I was the last person breeding them. I gave them away as we got _Idolomantis_, but obviously noone was successful with _Hypsicorypha_ again.


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## Mantida (Jan 29, 2008)

Christian said:


> @ Yen: what are turkish gliders? :huh:


Turkish gliders are fruit flies that are capable of gliding short distances. At least, that is what I have heard.


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## yen_saw (Jan 29, 2008)

Christian said:


> @ Yen: what are turkish gliders? :huh:


It is _D. melanogaster_ with a specific strain. This particulat strain jump and glide a lot. I received a culture from Merek a year ago. THey are many different mutation (strains) like wingless, golden eyes, curly, etc as stated in this link from Merek

http://www.atlfrog.com/turkishgliders.html



Kruszakus said:


> You can get _Hypsicorypha gracilis_ anywhere now? I have not heard of anyone keeping this species.


This species actually came to USA once and i had an ooth from Stephan, it only hatched out 4 nymphs unfortunately and i reared all 4 of them up to L5 before selling them to a breeder in New Jersey. This was probably 2 yrs ago so i don't think the breeder in New Jersey make it either. Here are some pics while i have them.


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## Christian (Jan 29, 2008)

> It is D. melanogaster with a specific strain. This particulat strain jump and glide a lot.


So they are half-flying _melanogaster_.... :lol:


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## Kruszakus (Jan 29, 2008)

Wow! I knew this species, but I did not know that people were rearig them - what a shame they are out of stock, they would make nice addition to my collection.

What is happening in Germany? I can't buy Gongylus at the moment, and Ceratomantis are impossible to get as of late - just what is going on?


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## Christian (Jan 29, 2008)

Some of the people who mass-bred _Gongylus_ had to get rid of this species because of some kind of allergic reaction to the whitish foam of the ooths. At last, it was almost impossible to open the cage without getting teary eyes and an outburst of sneezing. In fact, there were only a handful of breeders of this species which fed the market. As most of them did not continue it, the huge amount of larvae ceased to exist. The species is still in stock, but the large amount of offered larvae as seen previosly has not been achieved again. It's similar with _Ceratomantis_, except that this species was given away by the people who found and bred it due to a shortage of space - say new species require getting rid of old ones. I know of one person who has it over here, but I doubt he is very successful. If this species vanishes over here, it is clearly due to a lack of broad interest combined with a lack of skilled breeders. In ecology, this phenomenon is known as "stochastic extinction" :lol: 

It's the same problem with many species: there are a few people who are very successful and offer regularly offspring they bred. If all or most of those people quit that particular species from various reasons, it soon will become very rare and even dissappear, except it is one of the easy to breed all-time classics as _Hierodula membranacea, Sphodromantis lineola, Phyllocrania paradoxa_ or _Pseudocreobotra wahlbergii_. Even _Ps. ocellata_ regularly vanishes, as the "public" prefers _wahlbergii_ due to its larger size. Since I am active, there were at least 3 different stocks of _ocellata_ (one brought into stock by myself), which all dissappeared after a while due to the omnipresence of _wahlbergii_. We regularly bring new species into stock, but we are only a handful of people and we are no Ark. When new species appear and are at moment of interest to someone, and space or time is a problem, some of the older species have invariably to leave. But once the responsability is on others, you have lost the control over it - and sometimes you realize after a while that the stock has died out. Some examples: _Acanthops falcata, Decimiana bolivari, Angela championi, Hestiasula brunneriana_ (available again), several _Acromantis_ species, _Galinthias amoena_ (available again), several _Tarachodes_ species, _Pseudocreobotra ocellata_ (available again) and so on.


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## Kruszakus (Jan 30, 2008)

Hehehehehe - a nice term for the stock depletion, hehehe :lol: 

As for Acromantis - I have the A. formosana strain. As of this moment, I'm pretty close to a successful breeding of this species in Poland - but I cannot be sure, since I have only one male.

In Poland the "stochastic extincion" of the whole species may have its roots in the fact that the market here is just awful! Basically it's just a bunch of parsimonious teens interested only with S. gastrica, and if they get a bigger allowance, they are interested only in "popular" species - C. elongata, P. paradoxa, H. membrancea - people like to play it safe here, no ambition at all! So, the only hope is to trade ooths and save hatchling of more exotic species for faires held in Germany, where you can meet people with the guts to tackle something more challenging.

The only thing that can keep bussiness alive here is going for "must have" species like Gongylus gongylodes, Hymenopus coronatus or Idolomantis diabolica - I quess I have to add at least one of them to my own stock.

BTW - has onyone kept gravid I. lateralis females communaly?


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## Christian (Jan 30, 2008)

I also still have another _Acromantis_ species in stock (_A. _cf. _montana_), but there were earlier some other species available, as seen in the TT database.

Regarding the situation you described: it's pretty much the same over here, regarding the pure amount of people. That's why I said that the minority of people who breed more "exotic" species are mostly the same who also introduce new species. The recources for accumulating an indefinite amount of mantid species are restricted, though, so the older ones are quit in favor of the new ones. Not all of the new species can establish, and not all of the established ones make it for a long time. The situation gets better, as there is more interest arising in breeding new species. However, let's see how the situation will be in several years.


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## jarek (Jan 30, 2008)

but you can't except a teenager to keep and breed most exotic mantids because that takes expirience and knowledge in keeping harder species and many of the teenagers are just beginers, also most teenagers are not able to get and indroduce new species.


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## Christian (Jan 30, 2008)

Of course not - but then there is no reason to complain about species vanishing from the stock: it's just the way they go. Unfortunately, most such species are appreciated only *after* they are no longer available.


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## Kruszakus (Jan 30, 2008)

I've been rearing mantids for just four months. It really is not that hard, and most of the talk about the difficulty of certain species is just legendry. That's why I have a different concept of rearing mantids. Why stick to your usual bread and butter, when you can actually have something a bit more exotic?

And money is not a problem - I'm left with more or less 75$ each month - and the number of mantids I managed to obtain can be mindblowing to some.

You don't understand - it's just annoying, I as a breeder, would like to have more and more exotic species - but there is just no place to get them, since the demant is low and no one wants to keep certain types of mantids. I don't want every species apart from Sphordomantids and Hierodula sp. to be a rare delicacy - it's time to establish something more unique, a new quality - you know what I'm getting at.

It's just that there's much more to mantids than just one or two species, but by the time that certain people will appreciate it, the things that they wanted to have will be long gone. It's just like Marillion's "Season's End": "You never miss it, till it's gone" :lol:


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## Christian (Jan 30, 2008)

Well, first of all: some species *are* indeed difficult to breed, particularly highland species and some barkies. However, I observed that most people just fail to raise mantids properly. I just want to give an example: small boxes are not adequate for some species. It's better to use larger containers and keep them communally, even at risk of some losses, than putting them one by one in boxes and risk low humidity, mismolds etc. I often propagated and explained communal rearing, with the result that several people insisted on why they are not keeping mantids communally. This leads to the second problem: most people just keep insufficient numbers, mostly due to the boxing technique. However, I don't want to go into further detail here, as this was discussed many times.

There are a lot of mantid species available (at least in Europe - and chéz Yen :lol: ), but not every species is available at any time (see the link in my signature for a list of currently bred species). I think you are just badly informed. As always, it depends on several factors, as number of fairies, time of the year, numbers of offspring etc.. Just because you didn't find what you search for this doesn't mean that they are not in stock. Differing on the difficulty a certain species poses, there may be more or less offspring offered.

At last, some species are not in stock yet, and have never been. We're working on it.  

However, don't take me wrong, but I don't think you may be into all the problems of raising mantids after just four months of experience.


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## jarek (Jan 30, 2008)

Christian said:


> However, don't take me wrong, but I don't think you may be into all the problems of raising mantids after just four months of experience.


well there can be only 2 options he may have lied or he is just that clever however on polish forum they say he's good;D


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## Christian (Jan 30, 2008)

I am far from saying he has no clue. I just pointed out that 4 months of experience isn't sufficient to have been faced yet with all the problems that may arise. That's less than the duration of one generation in most species. As most problems arise after a couple of generations, I just can't take anyone too serious who hasn't at least some years of experience. Without a drawback you can't know where the specific problems are. Just for comparison: on average, just every third to second new species is successfully bred. The success rate is higher in savanna than in rainforest species and much lower in highland ones.


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 30, 2008)

Wow I missed a lot of good discussions here, I have about 15 Idolmorphia's just hatched. You say I need to keep them at 90F or better? What kind of moisture do they need? I love this species, they are so colorful and dainty. I can hardly wait to see them grow.  

Also Christian, you say you like to keep the species together, would this species be good for that? and also would moss be ok in the enclosure or no?


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## Christian (Jan 31, 2008)

Idolomorpha, as all Empusids, ist perfectly suited for communal raising. They are not aggressive and prefer airborne prey. Ensure the temperature to be 35° by day and spray every or every second day in the evening. Larger cages are better. However, this species is also somewhat tricky, so it's better to keep higher numbers, as not every copulation is successful.

Moss is not very adequate, as it will soon dry out. Typical for the habitat are ramified twigs, tall dry grasses and dry tall herbs from the last year.


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## Kruszakus (Jan 31, 2008)

Oh - I've been looking for a couple of species since September - there was no way I could get them, and still I cannot - in some cases I have to wait until April, then maybe they will have them - in others, it's stochastic extinction... Ceratomantids, where art thou? :lol: 

Well, I actually lied - this is my fifth month already :lol: 

I know that I cannot have too much of a clue about the difficulty of some species, but I've been adviced to stick to easier ones. Regardless of that, I moved on to something, which supposedly should be a challenge - and it wasn't! So, I really would like something with a narrow tolorance for mistakes. I know I may be throwing myself into the deep water, but that's how I like it.

Plus, it really does not take that much experience - I know certain breeders, who failed miserably with species, which in my case are thriving.

As for Idolomorpha - I kept mine at 30-38C daytime, and about 20-25C during the night (two different groups - the 38C/25C group matured within just two months!). I was spraying them every five days, but after the third mould I dropped it down - no mismoults, even though humidity was extra low.

They love wax moths, blue bottle and house flys and - gut loaded, pollen coated - both ways work out fine. L3 should have no problems with catching small wax moths and blue bottle flys, from L4 blue bottle and house flys can be the base of their diet.

Keep them communaly - they are cannibalistic only is they are low on airborne prey. And have a large number - I have 13 of them, and I still don't feel on like I'm on the safe side, hehehe.

Net cages adviced - with a lot of twigs, some colorful flowers will compliment the rainbow-like appearance of the adult ones.

My opinion? One of the nicest species there is, they don't do much, but their looks make up for it.


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## Rob Byatt (Jan 31, 2008)

Kruszakus said:


> Plus, it really does not take that much experience - I know certain breeders, who failed miserably with species, which in my case are thriving.


With all due respect, this means nothing. It took me 10 years to be able to breed hissing cochroaches :blink: 

Like Christian said, you have only been *rearing* mantids for 5 months - have you even produced your first generation yet ?  

Different species are adapted to different conditions, it is more than likely that you were just lucky with species the experienced breeder failed with, ie. the conditons alraedy present in your house were optimum.

With experience comes the knowledge and abilty to adjust these conditions to suit the species in hand.

Rob.


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## Kruszakus (Jan 31, 2008)

But without a bit of empathy rearing becomes just mechanic, sometimes small adjustments done on a hunch can improve, or even save some species (if you see that something wrong is hapening). Actually, sometimes experience can cause you to be less flexible - it's just like with separation vs communal keeping - I'm in favor of the latter, and I really see that it works with some species, but some people won't budge and will keep them separately, despite the fact, that it makes things easier, and some species are actually thriving on that.

You know what? I will give a sweet example: one guy here in Poland got ahold of a snake, which feeds mostly on frogs - but a mouse or a rat did not interest it, and it was on the egde of starvation. You know what the guy did? He poured water into a small tank, took it out to his garden, and he let the water turn green. Then he dipped the rat in the greenish water and fed it to the snake, hehehe - and that's how a bit of fantasy saved the poor snake  

Besides - to me it don't matter if you are experienced or not, if you take care of your animals, if you give them all the attention they require, and if it gives great results - sweet. We don't want any mantid to perish at the hands of ineptitude, don't we?  

Bred two species, and I'm currently waiting for A. formosana ooths to hatch. But I have five females and only one male. But my system of introducing the male to the female worked out perfectly even with this ferocious species. The male is a bit of a loverboy, so I'm hoping that he has done his job well - I should find out soon.

I know I'm not experienced with mantids, but when I was about seven, I took a great interest in insects and spiders (it lasted for about six years) - I've spent coundless hours by the pond, in the fields and in the woods; observing wild life, interacting with it (still gettig heebie-jibbies when I see antlion's funnel in the sand) - can this count as an experience of some sort? If that, maybe you are right, and I'm using my experience from back there...

Come to think of it - I'm just pursuing a childhood dream - I was fascinated with mantids, but I could not find them anywhere in Poland - now I have a bit o what I dreamed of in my own house, heh - sweet


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## jarek (Jan 31, 2008)

Kruszakus said:


> But without a bit of empathy rearing becomes just mechanic, sometimes small adjustments done on a hunch can improve, or even save some species (if you see that something wrong is hapening). Actually, sometimes experience can cause you to be less flexible - it's just like with separation vs communal keeping - I'm in favor of the latter, and I really see that it works with some species, but some people won't budge and will keep them separately, despite the fact, that it makes things easier, and some species are actually thriving on that.You know what? I will give a sweet example: one guy here in Poland got ahold of a snake, which feeds mostly on frogs - but a mouse or a rat did not interest it, and it was on the egde of starvation. You know what the guy did? He poured water into a small tank, took it out to his garden, and he let the water turn green. Then he dipped the rat in the greenish water and fed it to the snake, hehehe - and that's how a bit of fantasy saved the poor snake
> 
> Besides - to me it don't matter if you are experienced or not, if you take care of your animals, if you give them all the attention they require, and if it gives great results - sweet. We don't want any mantid to perish at the hands of ineptitude, don't we?
> 
> ...


with snake it's nothing new, on tv I've seen people were trying to feed dead aligator to to small python and the python wouldn't eat aligator until they put rat skin on it so nothing unusual.

I was also watching insects and spider and everything else in the meadows and fields but I don't think Polish fields and meadows would give me or you and anyone else Idea how to keep and breed exotic mantids but might be wrong. When I was trying to breed mantids it took me about 10 times of trying and incubating the ooths but finaly I managed to breed Plistospilota guinesiss soon after laying ooth female died but I had great hatching.


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## Kruszakus (Jan 31, 2008)

It's rather about general understanding - or maybe just empathy, maybe spending time in the wild created a bond with nature, that allows some people to guess the needs of their animals - you know, just the general understanding of how things work in nature :lol: 

But seriously? It's about knowledge and knowing how to use it, but knowledge does not always come just with the experience, you have to be open to new ideas. I must say, that I found most interesting ones here, and they certainly made my colenies thriving. I mean - communal species, flys gut loaded with honey or coated with bee pollen, recreating the natural habitat, by providing mantids with a lot of space in huge cages, as opposed to keeping them separately in small boxes, and so on and so on.

Well, everyone has some rough experiences with mantids - I still cannot figure out what went wrong with P. wahlbergii - I had eleven nymphs, and only one was alive after two months - that was rather sad too.


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