# Garden Center Mantids?



## AndrewFromSoCal (Mar 13, 2008)

Alright, i'll start by saying i'm no bug guy; I keep reptiles. I have bred mealworms, superworms, and B. Lateralis roaches. I'm also working on Hissers and Dubias. Anywho, to make a short story shorter, I wouldn't mind trying some Praying Mantis.

Now, I figure the best way for me to go, being a newb and all, is to get some egg cases from the local garden store. They sell 2 for 10$ here in Southern California. What I was wondering, is the following:

1. I've read a bit on how to hatch the eggs. I was thinking of placing the stick with egg attached inside an aquarium, and waiting for them to hatch out in there and grab the ones that compete the best to keep. Good/Bad?

2. What do you guys keep them in when they're grown? Would a 10g tank work?

3. Is there anything else you can tell me? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## pedro92 (Mar 13, 2008)

AndrewFromSoCal said:


> Alright, i'll start by saying i'm no bug guy; I keep reptiles. I have bred mealworms, superworms, and B. Lateralis roaches. I'm also working on Hissers and Dubias. Anywho, to make a short story shorter, I wouldn't mind trying some Praying Mantis. Now, I figure the best way for me to go, being a newb and all, is to get some egg cases from the local garden store. They sell 2 for 10$ here in Southern California. What I was wondering, is the following:
> 
> 1. I've read a bit on how to hatch the eggs. I was thinking of placing the stick with egg attached inside an aquarium, and waiting for them to hatch out in there and grab the ones that compete the best to keep. Good/Bad?
> 
> ...


I have dubias and they work great! Keep them in a gal clear container. 10 gal is to big. you need to feed the nymphs fruit flies. Im guessing the garden center is selling Chinese ootheca. Ootheca=egg case which will hatch 50 -400 nymphs. They need a 70 degree temp. Spray every other day. Do a google search. I just bought 5 ooths for 6$ on Ebay. So i would try there first. If interested in some dubias PM me.


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## Rick (Mar 13, 2008)

Welcome! This has been discussed a million times but here goes.

Likely any ooths you purchase there would be chinese mantids. You need to hatch the ooth in a fairly large enclosure. A 10 gal works well and so does a five gallon. You will need to get some thin fabric or netting with very tiny holes to put over the top. I like to use double sided tape to hold it down all around the edge except on one corner. Then I put the screen lid over that.

Put a bunch of sticks or something in there for them to climb on. Use some type of substrate on the bottom to hold some humidity and put the ooth in there. At room temps it will hatch within 6 weeks or so. It will hatch hundreds of nymphs. Do not even try to sort them out into individual containers yet. Most of them will die regardless of what you do and many will be eaten by the others. Your goal is to be left with about 10 or so that you can manage taking care of.

You will need good cultures of fruit flies going long before they hatch to ensure you have enough to feed them once they arrive. A day after they hatch use a small funnel and dump some flies into there through the corner of the netting you didn't tape down. Every other day mist the inside lightly with a water bottle.

After awhile you will have about 10 or so left and you will need to get them out and put them into smaller containers because smaller containers work better for individual mantids so they can find their food easier. I recommend the 32 oz deli cups most people use. Keep them in there until they outgrow them and then put them into something a bit bigger.


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## joossa (Mar 13, 2008)

If you don't mind me asking, where are they available? I haven't seen any here in long time.


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## darkspeed (Mar 13, 2008)

I saw them last year at Home Depot... I thought about getting an ooth, but didnt, and then when I went back the ooth had already hatched and there were chinese nymphs crawling all over the display, the counter and most of the potted plants they had there lol.


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## AndrewFromSoCal (Mar 13, 2008)

They have them at my Armstrong Garden Ctr.

So, do I keep the container with the egg case inside, or let it hang outside in the elements?


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## darkspeed (Mar 13, 2008)

AndrewFromSoCal said:


> They have them at my Armstrong Garden Ctr.So, do I keep the container with the egg case inside, or let it hang outside in the elements?


If you plan on keeping any, keep them inside. Mother Nature is an unforgiving and unpredictable old witch who will kill your mantids first chance she gets. Keep them inside someplace warm, and mist them regularly to keep the humidity up. Feed them fruitflys till they are about twice the size of a housefly, and then feed them houseflies. Chinese eventually get big enough to eat crickets or bluebottle flies. Try not to overfeed them, and once they have shed once or twice, seperate them immediately or they WILL eat each other.


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## AndrewFromSoCal (Mar 13, 2008)

DARKSPEED said:


> If you plan on keeping any, keep them inside. Mother Nature is an unforgiving and unpredictable old witch who will kill your mantids first chance she gets. Keep them inside someplace warm, and mist them regularly to keep the humidity up. Feed them fruitflys till they are about twice the size of a housefly, and then feed them houseflies. Chinese eventually get big enough to eat crickets or bluebottle flies. Try not to overfeed them, and once they have shed once or twice, seperate them immediately or they WILL eat each other.


I am okay with fruit flies/house flies because I think I can order cultures of both, but are there alternate food choices? I saw Aphids somewhere. What about pinhead crickets?

Also, could the fruit flies be flightless?


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## darkspeed (Mar 13, 2008)

AndrewFromSoCal said:


> I am okay with fruit flies/house flies because I think I can order cultures of both, but are there alternate food choices? I saw Aphids somewhere. What about pinhead crickets?Also, could the fruit flies be flightless?


In 99% of cases the fruitflies are flightless. There are several vendors of them online. If you need links pm me.

I think aphids are a bit small for the application, as Chinese will quickly outgrow them... A good culture of Hydei flys will do just fine. Pinheads are good too, and if you can successfully raise them they will grow along with your mantids. What you feed your crickets is very important, as what is in their belly goes in your mantid's belly.


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## AndrewFromSoCal (Mar 13, 2008)

DARKSPEED said:


> In 99% of cases the fruitflies are flightless. There are several vendors of them online. If you need links pm me.I think aphids are a bit small for the application, as Chinese will quickly outgrow them... A good culture of Hydei flys will do just fine. Pinheads are good too, and if you can successfully raise them they will grow along with your mantids. What you feed your crickets is very important, as what is in their belly goes in your mantid's belly.


Wicked, I think i'm set, then. Have you got pictures of any of your set-ups?


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## Rick (Mar 13, 2008)

AndrewFromSoCal said:


> They have them at my Armstrong Garden Ctr.So, do I keep the container with the egg case inside, or let it hang outside in the elements?


What are your intentions with them? Do you want them to release into your yard/garden or do you want to try your hand at raising them? Do as I described and indoors they will hatch pretty soon. There are a couple good threads in the feeding section about fruit flies which are very easy to rear.


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## darkspeed (Mar 13, 2008)

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?sh...pid=58720


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## Precious (Mar 13, 2008)

You need a bug tent or a mesh clothing hamper. They moult off of the sides, no sticks needed. Out of 279 nymphs (the one time I counted) I had less than a dozen adults. You can get the hampers at discount stores - just make sure there are no openings large enough for a fruit fly. Those online bug stores sell them as butterfly enclosures. They're perfect. I don't even use a substrate, just mist them.


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## hibiscusmile (Mar 13, 2008)

Yea I raise them year round, they are great mantis, my last bundh is at l3 and still eating all the Hydei I throw at them, but soon onto house flies! yum


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## AndrewFromSoCal (Mar 13, 2008)

I'd like to try my hand at raising them. I've always found them to be pretty awesome little critters, so I decided it was time to try them out.

The fruit fly thing shouldn't be an issue. I practiced raising them when I was going to get dart frogs. How many cultures do you think a person would need?

I've no idea what cloth hampers you're talking about, but i'll have a look for them. I do have some spent chameleon cages laying around, but from what i've read, those would be too big for a mantis. Can more than one inhabit the same enclosure?


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## pedro92 (Mar 13, 2008)

AndrewFromSoCal said:


> I'd like to try my hand at raising them. I've always found them to be pretty awesome little critters, so I decided it was time to try them out.The fruit fly thing shouldn't be an issue. I practiced raising them when I was going to get dart frogs. How many cultures do you think a person would need?
> 
> I've no idea what cloth hampers you're talking about, but i'll have a look for them. I do have some spent chameleon cages laying around, but from what i've read, those would be too big for a mantis. Can more than one inhabit the same enclosure?


The FF depend on how many mantids you actually want to keep. They are cannibalistic so they will kill each other so if well fed then seperate aroun L2 -L3 which means after there 1st or second molt seperate them. Ijust buy some screen off of mantisplace.com they have everything you need.


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## AndrewFromSoCal (Mar 14, 2008)

Alright, so. Put the egg cases in a 10g tank with a tight mesh over it, and leave on corner at a larger mesh. Put twigs in the container and a substrate that can absorb moisture. Leave the mantis in there with fruit flies, let them canibalize/eat fruit flies until I have about 10 left, and separate them. Scale prey with Mantis.

Am I missing much?


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## macro junkie (Mar 14, 2008)

AndrewFromSoCal said:


> Alright, so. Put the egg cases in a 10g tank with a tight mesh over it, and leave on corner at a larger mesh. Put twigs in the container and a substrate that can absorb moisture. Leave the mantis in there with fruit flies, let them canibalize/eat fruit flies until I have about 10 left, and separate them. Scale prey with Mantis.Am I missing much?


sounds ok to me.


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## Rick (Mar 14, 2008)

AndrewFromSoCal said:


> Alright, so. Put the egg cases in a 10g tank with a tight mesh over it, and leave on corner at a larger mesh. Put twigs in the container and a substrate that can absorb moisture. Leave the mantis in there with fruit flies, let them canibalize/eat fruit flies until I have about 10 left, and separate them. Scale prey with Mantis.Am I missing much?


That is one method I use for a large ooth like that. Or you can do a large net cage like precious said. Keep them together until they are about L3 and then seperate what is left. They cannot live together after that or they will eat each other.


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## AndrewFromSoCal (Mar 14, 2008)

Do butterfly cages = net cages? Also, how many "ooths" can be hatched in each screen cage or 10 gallon?

When you say L3, is that after the 2nd molt? I've been reading some other posts trying to glean information, but apparently i'm not doing terribly well.


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## Mantida (Mar 14, 2008)

AndrewFromSoCal said:


> Do butterfly cages = net cages? Also, how many "ooths" can be hatched in each screen cage or 10 gallon?When you say L3, is that after the 2nd molt? I've been reading some other posts trying to glean information, but apparently i'm not doing terribly well.


Butterfly cages are basically net cages. I'd say about 3-4 can be hatched in a 10 gallon. I don't usually let them cannibalize down to ten, but keep the "toughies" that are active, hunting, and vigorous at L3.

Yes, L3 is after the second molt. I think you're doing pretty good.


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## Rick (Mar 14, 2008)

AndrewFromSoCal said:


> Do butterfly cages = net cages? Also, how many "ooths" can be hatched in each screen cage or 10 gallon?When you say L3, is that after the 2nd molt? I've been reading some other posts trying to glean information, but apparently i'm not doing terribly well.


You can hatch as many as you want in whatever cage you want. I prefer one at a time. I don't think you realize how many nymphs come from one good sized ooth. As far as the stages go, when they molt for the first time that is L2 and so on. You just need to get some ideas and then figure out what works for you.


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## AndrewFromSoCal (Mar 15, 2008)

Rick said:


> You can hatch as many as you want in whatever cage you want. I prefer one at a time. I don't think you realize how many nymphs come from one good sized ooth. As far as the stages go, when they molt for the first time that is L2 and so on. You just need to get some ideas and then figure out what works for you.


I read 50-200 nymphs can come from one ooth, but it seems the most cost effective way to get these egg cases is 6 for 10$. I'll have to figure out some caging methods. Thanks for the help guys, i'll try to think up some more questions.


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## Rick (Mar 15, 2008)

AndrewFromSoCal said:


> I read 50-200 nymphs can come from one ooth, but it seems the most cost effective way to get these egg cases is 6 for 10$. I'll have to figure out some caging methods. Thanks for the help guys, i'll try to think up some more questions.


May be cost effective however they're so cheap anyways. You will be wasting your time even attempting to hatch and raise six ooths. One is more than enough unless you want to put the rest of them in your garden.


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## AndrewFromSoCal (Mar 15, 2008)

Rick said:


> May be cost effective however they're so cheap anyways. You will be wasting your time even attempting to hatch and raise six ooths. One is more than enough unless you want to put the rest of them in your garden.


I figured as much, I was going to stick with two and give the rest away to my friends.

Maybe i'll just stick with the two from Armstrong.


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## pedro92 (Mar 15, 2008)

If you live in a warm place get extra and put in a small garden, let them hatch, and after awhile you might have adults and more ooths. And a pest free garden.


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## Rick (Mar 15, 2008)

AndrewFromSoCal said:


> I figured as much, I was going to stick with two and give the rest away to my friends.Maybe i'll just stick with the two from Armstrong.


Keep in mind many will die. You will be lucky to end up with even 10 adults when it is all said and done. Do not let that discourage you from the hobby. It is normal.


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## asdsdf (Mar 15, 2008)

Yep, that is sometimes the case. However, it seems like if the ootheca doesn't hatch much nymphs(Species-wise, not bad hatch.), most of the nymphs will survive to adult hood. Mantises that hatch out in the hundreds(Such as the Chinese) seem to die off at a rapid pace.


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## pedro92 (Mar 16, 2008)

asdsdf said:


> Yep, that is sometimes the case. However, it seems like if the ootheca doesn't hatch much nymphs(Species-wise, not bad hatch.), most of the nymphs will survive to adult hood. Mantises that hatch out in the hundreds(Such as the Chinese) seem to die off at a rapid pace.


I think that is because we take advantage of the many and i seem to let them kill because i dont have room for over 200 containers. LOL that would be a disaster. But when a more exotic ooth will hatch far less than that and they are more expensive


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## Precious (Mar 17, 2008)

I always have Chinese. They're fun and you learn a lot from them. No substrate, little effort. Use the butterfly cage/bug tent. You will lose many and it won't be your fault. If it is your fault, you'll learn what not to do. This is the perfect way to start. As I said, I still keep them. They are fierce and funny and I thoroughly enjoy them. Keep the six ooths until one hatches and toss the rest outside.


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## asdsdf (Mar 17, 2008)

Chameleonare said:


> I think that is because we take advantage of the many and i seem to let them kill because i dont have room for over 200 containers. LOL that would be a disaster. But when a more exotic ooth will hatch far less than that and they are more expensive


Nah...  For ones like flower mantises, etc, where the hatch is around 20, have you ever heard of mass "die-offs" like you hear with Chinese or European? They seem to just die without any reason. Also, I have kept all my flower mantises despite the higher cost compared to the common species, and many of them survive. Whereas all my Europeans are dead. -.-" They were my first species.


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## Precious (Mar 17, 2008)

I have learned to appreciate the flower mantids. I have to use a magnifying glass to see the hatchlings clearly. That's ok so long as I have other mantids that are taking down giant moths and watching the tele. The "common" mantids don't always die for no reason. Sometimes it's something you've done or failed to do and you learn from that experience. When you have 200 experiences in a matter of weeks, it amounts to crash course in keeping mantids. That's why I think their good beginners. Now I keep them just because I've become fond of them. A couple of months ago I saw an L3 nymph eating his sibling who was shedding. Just when you think you've seen it all...


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## asdsdf (Mar 18, 2008)

I was simply just stating that mantises that have a lower average hatch per ooth seem to have a higher survival rate.

Of course not all of them die off, but if you notice, more live out of the 20 than out of the 200, it seems.Those nymphs seem to have "die-off"athons, so very few actually seem to make it to adult-hood.


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## Precious (Mar 18, 2008)

No, you're absolutely right. They have a high mortality rate. I'm just saying it provides for a fat learning curve.


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