# Idolomantis diabolica



## Rick (Sep 10, 2010)

Any tips on breeding?


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## angelofdeathzz (Sep 10, 2010)

Rick said:


> Any tips on breeding?


I would start with a male and a female put on some romantic music, turn the lights down low, and make sure he doesn't wear a condom. :lol: :clown: ing around


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## Colorcham427 (Sep 10, 2010)

Rick said:


> Any tips on breeding?


Maybe we could actually respect a member with a serious question and answer with something useful.

This is a species that I would love to see more of in culture, and Rick has been doing well with them.

First off, how long have they been adult bro?

Are you keeping them a lone with a visible barrier? These mantids seem to get more and more territorial by the age, which makes sense to me.

Temp.? I have been told that 105 degrees is good for a breeding temp.

Has your female been acting differently? Walking around more, been more active as usual?

I'd love to see Chris and Yen come on this thread. They have bred this species before, not sure who else has in the US that is active on this forum?

If you have a nice camera take a video clip of them behaving prior to copulation please!


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## Rick (Sep 10, 2010)

They are seperate and in the low 90's temp wise. I can crank up their temps no problem. My male is very quick to strike a threat pose when he sees the female, not sure if that is a good thing with these or not.


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## angelofdeathzz (Sep 10, 2010)

Sorry just trying to make Rick laugh, not sure if he laughs enough? can't bug talk have some humor? anyway I have some L1-L2 Idolo nymphs myself and I could use the breeding info also.


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## Rick (Sep 11, 2010)

angelofdeathzz said:


> Sorry just trying to make Rick laugh, not sure if he laughs enough? can't bug talk have some humor? anyway I have some L1-L2 Idolo nymphs myself and I could use the breeding info also.


Don't worry. I thought it was funny.


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## mantisboy (Sep 12, 2010)

Rick said:


> Don't worry. I thought it was funny.


Lighten up Brian, there is nothing wrong with a little innocent light hearted humor.


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## Rick (Sep 19, 2010)

So far nothing. I've had em together for awhile today and the male keeps going into threat posture....


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## angelofdeathzz (Sep 19, 2010)

are you puting the female into the male cage, I think that is the best way he has the advantage to jump down on her.


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## Rick (Sep 19, 2010)

angelofdeathzz said:


> are you puting the female into the male cage, I think that is the best way he has the advantage to jump down on her.


Yes of course.


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## Colorcham427 (Sep 20, 2010)

sorry I should lighten up.  

How are things going Rick? Are you trying more than once a day?


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## Ntsees (Sep 20, 2010)

What about just manually placing the male on the female's back and having their abdomens touch? Are they too sensitive/vulnerable that that method shouldn't be used?


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## Rick (Sep 20, 2010)

Ntsees said:


> What about just manually placing the male on the female's back and having their abdomens touch? Are they too sensitive/vulnerable that that method shouldn't be used?


I will try that eventually if they don't get together on their own. I have done that on many other mantids. The only problem may be that these go into threat posture at the slightest provocation.


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## Schloaty (Sep 20, 2010)

Are you sure the female is ready?

Doesn't it take while before the start emitting pheremones?

I would think if she "smelled good," he would jump right on.

 

I have VERY little experience breeding, but my ONE success was when I took them both out of their cages, and put them on a houseplant. I put the male behind the female - couple of inches.

He just looked at her for a few minutes, "smelling" with his antenea, then he pounced (and I mean POUNCED).


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## Entomo-logic (Sep 20, 2010)

I have not worked with Idolomantis long and in fact only have 15 L3-L4s that I received from Yen a few weeks ago. However I have worked with Gongylus for almost 3 years now and have made many observations on breeding habits of these very closely related Empusids. When my females are ready ie well fed, big abdomens, the heat is just right {101-105 degrees Fahrenheit}, and the male has been away from her for 1-3 days)I place the male in with the female. If she is ready she lifts her wings slightly and starts pumping her abdomen at which point i can see a small lining around her genitalia kind of pulsate, this i believe is some pheromone being emitted to call over a good looking guy. When the male senses this pheromone he will SLOWLY stalk her and then at just the right time hop on her back and hold on for dear life but she is usually very receptive and in a kind of trance at this point.

I Disagree with the method of introducing the female to the male's enclosure because if you look at the Empusidae family of mantids (and several other mantid families) you notice a trend that males often have well developed wings and are flighted where as females have greatly reduced wings. This is the case because the females sit and call for the male and the male comes searching for the female, so I think introducing the female into the males enclosure may just be freaking the poor guy out thinking she is coming to eat him or something but placing the male in the females enclosure and letting him go to her is MUCH more natural.

Good Luck!


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## Colorcham427 (Sep 20, 2010)

Very interesting. The ability for some males to take flight does make sense to me now.


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## Mex_Ghost (Sep 20, 2010)

As Brian asked before... How old are they? When I had mine, the female was adult before the male so I had to wait as some say, 3 weeks after the male was adult, but I saw the male not ready so I put them apart, later I had to travel out becuse my work for a period of 3 weeks aprox, after I came back I put them togheter for one night long and the male was very active, unfurtunately when I woke up the male was on the floor and the female was hanging from the top of the lid fo the enclousure.

I could suggest to wait a week more and try again.

saludos


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## Mex_Ghost (Sep 20, 2010)

As Brian asked before... How old are they? When I had mine, the female was adult before the male so I had to wait as some say, 3 weeks after the male was adult, but I saw the male not ready so I put them apart, later I had to travel out becuse my work for a period of 3 weeks aprox, after I came back I put them togheter for one night long and the male was very active, unfurtunately when I woke up the male was on the floor and the female was hanging from the top of the lid fo the enclousure.

I could suggest to wait a week more and try again.

saludos


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## Ntsees (Sep 20, 2010)

Entomo-logic said:


> I Disagree with the method of introducing the female to the male's enclosure because if you look at the Empusidae family of mantids (and several other mantid families) you notice a trend that males often have well developed wings and are flighted where as females have greatly reduced wings. This is the case because the females sit and call for the male and the male comes searching for the female, so I think introducing the female into the males enclosure may just be freaking the poor guy out thinking she is coming to eat him or something but placing the male in the females enclosure and letting him go to her is MUCH more natural.
> 
> Good Luck!


It just depends what works for you. The reason why I would introduce the female to the male and not the other way around is so that the male will notice the female first (for mating purposes). If it was the other way around and the female noticed the male first, the male will not be able to stalk or sneak up without the female noticing. When that happens, he stands a good chance of becoming a meal (whether or not he actually does get his job done). Because of that, I always never let my females notice the male, but when she does, I make her focus on something else.

Yes, it's true that the majority of the time, males fly to females in nature via pheromones. When that happens though, there is nothing that distracts the male and it is focused on finding the female. In the case of manually introducing a male to a female, the male may be distracted by the person putting him into the female's enclosure and it's not focused on trying to find a female (it doesn't know that you are trying to put him with a female). I'm not saying that introducing a male to a female will not allow for successful mating, it's just that that method puts the male at risk.


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## Rick (Sep 20, 2010)

No luck. Earlier the male was facing the female and his abdomen was pointing up away from his wings. I thought that was going to be it but next time I looked he was just acting normal and grooming. They had been together for a few hours and I noticed the female was missing a back leg. No idea what happened and I can't find the leg. I can't work around them because even the slightest movement triggers a threat posture. I'm just going to leave them together tonight.

*Edit: Found her leg. Looks like she got it stuck in the crook of a twig and couldn't get it out. I thought the male was going to go for a mount a minute ago but instead he just struck at her a couple times &lt;_&lt;


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## hibiscusmile (Sep 20, 2010)

pour us both a brandy Rick! gonna be a bumpy ride! :lol:


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## guapoalto049 (Sep 20, 2010)

Rick said:


> No luck. Earlier the male was facing the female and his abdomen was pointing up away from his wings. I thought that was going to be it but next time I looked he was just acting normal and grooming. They had been together for a few hours and I noticed the female was missing a back leg. No idea what happened and I can't find the leg. I can't work around them because even the slightest movement triggers a threat posture. I'm just going to leave them together tonight.
> 
> *Edit: Found her leg. Looks like she got it stuck in the crook of a twig and couldn't get it out. I thought the male was going to go for a mount a minute ago but instead he just struck at her a couple times &lt;_&lt;


You probably have already done this, but maybe a heavy dose of humidity could help. If Tier is correct in what he said, Idolos should be kept tropical when adult. If they become adult during the rainy season this could be what you're looking for. Just a suggestion since I'll be in the same boat in a few months (if they make it that long!).


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## Rick (Sep 21, 2010)

guapoalto049 said:


> You probably have already done this, but maybe a heavy dose of humidity could help. If Tier is correct in what he said, Idolos should be kept tropical when adult. If they become adult during the rainy season this could be what you're looking for. Just a suggestion since I'll be in the same boat in a few months (if they make it that long!).


They are already being kept hot and humid.


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## Rick (Sep 23, 2010)

Right now she is on the side of the cage and he is on the top. His head is about level with her thorax. It would be very easy for him to mount the female. But he's too busy tracking flies to do that. &lt;_&lt;


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## hibiscusmile (Sep 23, 2010)

haha Rick that is funny, mine did the same thing today, wanted to eat, maybe just playing it cool! B)


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## Rick (Sep 24, 2010)

I read yours paired right up. Can't believe that my male shows little to no interest. What are you doing different with your male?


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## hibiscusmile (Sep 24, 2010)

Nothing as I know of, he is old enough and there hasn't been an adult species around and this may account for it, but it was extremely hot here and they need to be hot, so I put them in the laundry room after arrival yesterday and I had the other male in there too, so maybe it was a territory thing concerning her. Other than that, I don't have a clue. :mellow:


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## Rick (Sep 24, 2010)

My guy is being kept at 100 degrees or so and humid. He just acts like she isn't there. He has been adult for awhile now.


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## hibiscusmile (Sep 24, 2010)

I hope he wakes up! Maybe soak his next fly in coffee :huh: . I wish I knew what was up with them, but I don't, I can't even pretend I do.


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## Rick (Sep 25, 2010)

Well........my male just dropped dead today.


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## MantidLord (Sep 25, 2010)

Dang that sucks. Sorry Rick. I'm never dealing with these.


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## hibiscusmile (Sep 25, 2010)

I still have two Rick, don't know how long they will last, so If your gonna, send her monday, unless u got more boys!!!


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## Rick (Sep 26, 2010)

He wasn't actually dead when I posted this but he is now! He was the only male I had.


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## angelofdeathzz (Sep 26, 2010)

Man that sucks, sorry to hear that Rick. are you sure he didn't sneek in a quicky?

maybe someone can lend you a male.

Who's got a male they can lend out .


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## Rick (Sep 26, 2010)

angelofdeathzz said:


> Man that sucks, sorry to hear that Rick. are you sure he didn't sneek in a quicky?
> 
> maybe someone can lend you a male.
> 
> Who's got a male they can lend out .


Not sure. The other morning the end of her abdomen was moving a lot like they sometimes do after mating.


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## hibiscusmile (Sep 27, 2010)

I notice it is usually open for aday afterwards if they did.


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## Rick (Sep 27, 2010)

hibiscusmile said:


> I notice it is usually open for aday afterwards if they did.


Yeah. In this case it was not. Doesn't much matter though. If I didn't see it it didn't happen. Anyone got a male?


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## ismart (Sep 27, 2010)

So sorry Rick!


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## Rick (Sep 27, 2010)

ismart said:


> So sorry Rick!


Sorry man. Guess they don't last as long as adults as other species do.


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## hibiscusmile (Oct 8, 2010)

Well got the first ooth! gonna have to wait FOREVER to see hatching:lol: ! This one is not Pauls lady, but the second lady that was sent, she was mated after his, but she eats better to as her claws are good, but Pauls is getting fat, so hopefully in next few days, she will lay one too!


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## hibiscusmile (Oct 8, 2010)

I was also thinking, that were these idol ladies from Yen? Because mine came right from someone else, so this way there is no inbreeding right now, so that makes it nice.


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## Colorcham427 (Oct 11, 2010)

hibiscusmile said:


> I was also thinking, that were these idol ladies from Yen? Because mine came right from someone else, so this way there is no inbreeding right now, so that makes it nice.


lol incest is always a no no. lol at least with our species!! :lol: 

I am down to one sexed sub adult pairs that are about to molt any day now. Probably in 1-7 days.

They are both in a large mesh hamper. Blue bottle flies just don't cut it with these big guys, I need some moths!!!

I might get into other species of caterpillars just for the moths as feeders for mantids and my panther chameleons.

Manduca Sexta AKA hawk moths are too big for mantids.


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## hibiscusmile (Oct 24, 2010)

Well we have another ooth! this one is Pauls lady! It is a bit smaller than the other but nonetheless, looking good! :lol: Oh, ps I forgot to write the date, but I think it was the 9/16!


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## sporeworld (Nov 25, 2010)

After 2 hours of reading on forums and caresheets from overseas, here are some notes I'd like to put out there to see if it matches our experiences:

IDOLOMANTIS

Notes from research:

People are keeping them hot - up to 100f, but success has been noted much lower.

Several reports of them gathering at the hotspots.

High Humidity reported to be irrelevant to health, besides (maybe) molting.

12 days per instar for the first five instars,

17 days each for the next two instars

17-19 days at sub adult

20-39 days to adult

97 - 120 days to reach adult after hatching

Females DO have an extra 8th molt.

Males live about 3 months (mine was shorter).

Females as much as 6 months

Females start to call in about 3/4 wks

23-31 days between mating and 1st ooth

25 days between new ooths.

3-6 ooths in a lifetime.

51-54 days to hatch (presumably under some kind of heat and humditiy)

24 nymphs in a hatch, 45-50 nymphs in another report.

Other notes:

Spraying / Humidity MIGHT encourage breeding.

Small twigs MIGHT help save falling adults during molting.

Exo-terra flexi seems to be the preferred cage/hanging material.

Thoughts and additions....?


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## Rick (Nov 25, 2010)

Looks like a great list. I never could get mine interested in mating despite high temps and all that. Beautiful mantis, but far too much hassle for me.


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## The Gex Files (Nov 25, 2010)

Thanks for sharing! This way we know what to expect!

Although we have out L3 and L4 for 14 days now... and it took them 5 days to get here, so that makes 19 days, and som still need to molt. They are refusing food, so it should not take long then.


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## hibiscusmile (Nov 25, 2010)

I would add this:

I have read that the way to keep males till females molt, is to feed them less and keep them cooler.

I did this with two of my males and both died within a month. The third male is being kept the same as the females, and he is going on his third month, eating every day and drinking everyday. I really think that keeping them cooler and feeding them less is what makes them die. Take it for what it is worth, but he is still here eating and he is not a TURKEY!


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## angelofdeathzz (Nov 25, 2010)

from what I've learned 100 degree's is to hot, 85-88 is all they want or need untill mating time. I'm not as a advanced as some here but my L5 and L6 Idolo's have done very well at 85-88, with a half inch of wet moss in the bottom of there 80oz deli cups for high RH. they are very active and run all over when I bring them out, and not one molting issue so far, each in its own cup with only 2 sticks in each. but I keep them seperate because I had a L4 eat a L3 a while back even though they were very well feed(my bad luck I guess) so 3 went to 2 and I'm not taking any chances with them.

that's my 2 cents for what it's worth.


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## tier (Nov 25, 2010)

Hi

Ha, today the first larvae of me second self bred generation hatched out 

Very happy, now I know at least one female was mated correctly. This time it took around 2.5 month until the ooth hatched.

regards


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## angelofdeathzz (Nov 25, 2010)

Thats great Tier :clap: ! so how do you keep them, what conditions?


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## sporeworld (Nov 25, 2010)

Yeah, 8 weeks incubation seems to be the concensus.

And temps, as Rebecca mentioned, also seem to hover in the mid 80's. But mine were hotter, as were many of the others who got them to adult. And Rebecca's the only one I've heard report of deaths that didn't have the work "molt" right next to them. They seem really hardy - especailly if they can have a 20 some degree variance from breeder to breeder - not to mention the absolute extremes of humidity! And the gauge of the mesh seems to be the real magic bullet.


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## Precarious (Nov 25, 2010)

Here is my timetable of molts:

L2

(12 days)

L3

(18 days)

L4

(16 days)

L5

(20 days)

L6

(27-30 days)

L7

Waiting for L8 so at least 2 of them must be females.

I keep mine at room temp. Use a lamp for extra heat about 6 hours per day which takes it to 85-88.

Humidity 60-70% (as low at 45% with heat light on). And I mist them daily.

I've keep mine in a glass enclosure with a roof of twigs and have none of the gripping problems others report.

One bad molt to L7 but alive and well. Second L7 is perfect.

What we need to track is at what point a molt went bad. At what point in the molt did they fall? Did they make it all the way out of the old skin, then fall? Or were they stuck? If they get stuck in the skin we can assume low humidity was the cause.

My only bad molt, the L7, was one that chose a spot with nothing to grip around it. I wasn't present to watch the molt but found complete skin and mantis in the moss. It had obviously made it completely out of the old skin, then fell.

The perfect L7 molt I witnessed (and recorder) was next to the vines and twigs I have mounted to one wall. The mantis did not step onto the leaves as I had anticipated, but rather twisted to grip them in addition to the skin. So had the skin dropped it may have held to the leaves. It then reached past the old skin to grip the twig roof. It's pretty crazy how long their legs get. I can understand how the lose them so easily.

My observations suggest that an ideal enclosure would have narrow (3" to 4") isles with foliage or twigs to each side. That way no matter where they choose to molt they would have the opportunity to grip additional surfaces after extraction from the skin. An open square of roof leaves the possibility of choosing a bad location to molt. I may construct a permeable wall of twigs down the center of my tank to test this out.

I will try to edit and post the L7 molt footage this week yet. I'll come back here and post the link.


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## sporeworld (Nov 25, 2010)

I've only heard one report of an Idol mismolting (stuck in it's skin). Even with no added humidity. The losses all seem to be from the "switch" - the start of inflating the wings. Most report fully extended, but wrinkled wings (that was true for all of my adults but two). My female, who came out perfect, made it by only ONE LEG! We watched in horror as the other three legs (from the old skin) came unhooked one at a time - from a really solid looking grip on a thin plastic branch.

I'm thinking one of those collapsable laundy baskets (cylindrical) turned on it's side might be perfect. No sides and easy access to climb back up. Also, if it's suspended, and not on a surface, it might even provide some bounce if they DO fall. I'll let you know in about 4 months... 

Also, when you DO get adults, don't panic about the color - takes 3 or 4 days to get really vivid.


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## Precarious (Nov 25, 2010)

Sporeworld said:


> I've only heard one report of an Idol mismolting (stuck in it's skin). Even with no added humidity. The losses all seem to be from the "switch" - the start of inflating the wings. Most report fully extended, but wrinkled wings (that was true for all of my adults but two). My female, who came out perfect, made it by only ONE LEG! We watched in horror as the other three legs (from the old skin) came unhooked one at a time - from a really solid looking grip on a thin plastic branch.
> 
> I'm thinking one of those collapsable laundy baskets (cylindrical) turned on it's side might be perfect. No sides and easy access to climb back up. Also, if it's suspended, and not on a surface, it might even provide some bounce if they DO fall. I'll let you know in about 4 months...


Well, that's what I suspected. The flip is the dangerous part.

And that sounds like a really unique solution! You've gotta try that and see how well it works.


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## sporeworld (Nov 25, 2010)

I have an old hexagon mesh cage that I'm not using. I may see if THAT will work if I tip in on it's side as well. Eventually, when I think I have something down, I'll have a professional build me one for real. I'll post it when I get there...


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## guapoalto049 (Nov 28, 2010)

Precarious said:


> What we need to track is at what point a molt went bad. At what point in the molt did they fall? Did they make it all the way out of the old skin, then fall? Or were they stuck? If they get stuck in the skin we can assume low humidity was the cause.
> 
> My only bad molt, the L7, was one that chose a spot with nothing to grip around it. I wasn't present to watch the molt but found complete skin and mantis in the moss. It had obviously made it completely out of the old skin, then fell.
> 
> The perfect L7 molt I witnessed (and recorder) was next to the vines and twigs I have mounted to one wall. The mantis did not step onto the leaves as I had anticipated, but rather twisted to grip them in addition to the skin. So had the skin dropped it may have held to the leaves. It then reached past the old skin to grip the twig roof. It's pretty crazy how long their legs get. I can understand how the lose them so easily.


My one mismolt was a similar situation. I did not witness it, but found the mantis in a heap at the bottom on the paper towel. None of its limbs were stuck in the old skin, which was complete and a few inches away from the mantis.

One thing I noted was that the mismolter did it from the metal screen, while the two that were ok molted from the leaves and sticks.


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## sporeworld (Nov 28, 2010)

Yup. The metal mesh vs. large tarsus seems to be the culprit. Also, the inability to climb back up after the fall.


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## Precarious (Nov 28, 2010)

Sporeworld said:


> Yup. The metal mesh vs. large tarsus seems to be the culprit. Also, the inability to climb back up after the fall.


Those are the main factors for sure, but there is a little more to it. Mine was hanging from twigs and still fell, I believe, because there was nothing to either side to grab onto in addition to the skin. I think the skin can only hold the full weight for so long. I could be completely wrong, but I don't see any other explanation.

Let's keep this conversation going. This is good for all of us. Eventually we'll crack the code!


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## guapoalto049 (Nov 28, 2010)

I'd say listen to what Tier said awhile back in an Idolo post. He's had much success with packing glass terrariums full of thin twigs.

The twigs I have are all thin, strong, and rough. I'd stay away from anything that has a smooth surface, like bamboo or metal screen.

I have a loofa that I could cut up and use over the metal areas, would this be similar to the mesh some of you have been using?


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## sporeworld (Nov 29, 2010)

I'm mulling around the idea of skipping the twigs entirely and making a tree-shaped peice of "art" in the middle entirely out of mess. Kinda like a nylong chicken wire tree. I KNOW they can grip it, it won't rot, and I might even be able to make it look decent. I'm always a little put off by giving them their "natural" habitat, and then not being able to see them! Like hiding a new car in the garage. Have to give it some thought...


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## lion (Dec 19, 2010)

Sorry for the late post.

Look at this cool chart. It shows that rainfall is highest in the first and last molts. This is when people have problems with their sheds.


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## sporeworld (Apr 26, 2011)

This is old, but reviewing our posts (and especially Lion's weather chart), it seems like going with Mother Nature's example, we should be:

TEMP: 75-90f

HUMIIDITY: 50-60%

DAYLIGHT: 10 hours

Anyone want to challenge those stats...?


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## PhilinYuma (Apr 26, 2011)

Yeah, I guess so, though I should make it quite clear that I have never raised this mantis myself. Are you planning on getting some, Sporeworld?

Orin's _Invertebrates Magazine_, Vol 8:2-3 contain the two part article on this species by Christian Schwarz and friends, and you might consider getting these two back copies by contacting Orin and, of course, becoming a subscriber. It gives T and RH parameters which cover your daytime figures but also mentions the importance of allowing the temp to drop to about 80Fand the RH to rise to 80-90% at night to facilitate molting. They suggest that this can be achieved by spraying, but an easier answer would be to use an ultrasonic humidifier and turn it up during the evening and down during the day, though the rise in diurnal temp will lower the RH to an extent.

Lion's graph is great, but hard to apply to the I. diabolica life cycle since this species in the wild is probably bivoltine, at least in part of its range. Also, to quote the article, "even slight latitudinal changes are linked to shifts in the rain[sic] and dry seasons resulting from the Intertropical Convergence Zone. Thus specimens from different geographic regions may show divergent phenologies [how the seasons affect animal life cycles], which was indeed confirmed by our data."

Thus if the enclosure is too warm and dry, above 94F and low humidity, a subadult nymph wil not molt while awaiting the "rainy season" and may live for up to 14 weeks in the subadult instar, though lowering the temp to about 85F and raising the humidity to about 90% can stimulate ecdysis.

Since there have been marked differences in the response of different cultures of this species to captive care -- some never produced viable offspring -- I would suggest that anyonwe who purchases these expensive beasts with the purpose of raising them would do well to get detailed rearing instructions from the breeder if they are captive raised. Also, anything that Yen says is directly endorsed by the Great Mantis Goddess (BbHN).

I hope that this helps.


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## sporeworld (Apr 28, 2011)

Sent in my request to become a subscriber.

In the meantime, the important plot points in your seem to be:

(1) "Temps drop to about 80Fand the RH to rise to 80-90% at night to facilitate molting".

Yeah - I have several humidifiers, and light on day/night timers. Curently set to 10 hour daylight cycles, but my bizzare work hours kind of mess with that.

(2) "I. diabolica is probably bivoltine"

Fascinating! Luna and Polyphemus moths are the same. 18 hours of sunlight in the 5th(?) instar will cause the change and they won't need to diapause. Zero change if you try that in any other instar, or more or less daylight. And try as I might, I couldn't get my other silkmoth species to do the same. Wonder where the trigger is for Idolos? And do the OOTHS need to diapause as well..?

(3) "If the enclosure is too warm and dry, above 94F and low humidity, a subadult nymph wil not molt while awaiting the "rainy season" and may live for up to 14 weeks in the subadult instar, though lowering the temp to about 85F and raising the humidity to about 90% can stimulate ecdysis."

Ha! That explpains SO much! My adult female spent 2 weeks without eatting, just hanging motionless. Then molted into a beautiful adult! I'll bet that was when my first humdifier was broke, and spraying the mesh cages just wasn't enough.

(4) "...anything that Yen says is directly endorsed by the Great Mantis Goddess (BbHN)."

For sure! I have a rudimentary Care Sheet mocked up, and nearly every statistic is noted with "Yen Sez" - which contradicts or challenges what everyone else said. And he's probably right!


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## PhilinYuma (Apr 28, 2011)

I haven't been in idolomants country, so far as I know, but I was in Kenya. The masai mara has two rainy seasons, one about now and one in November. I imagine that it is two rainy seasons and how far they apart that determines whether they breed once or twice a year. I sent heart broken Sparkle off to the mara at the begiining of the month, hoping that accommodation would be less costly than at the height of the -dry -- season.

No tropical mantids need diapause, though some orthopteran nymphs may diapause in the middle of the dry season when the grass is sere. They do that here in the Sonoran, by the way, which is good for the mantids, because it delays the time when the crix/grasshoppers will grow too big for the mantids to catch. Boy, it's an interesting world, isn't it?


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## Precarious (Apr 28, 2011)

I'm not knocking strict control of environment, but I played by pretty loose rules and had perfect results. Just kept humidity up and moderate temp (no higher than about 88) and I didn't even add heat regularly. Most days were only around 80 and as low as 68 at night. Maybe I got lucky, or maybe it's not the rocket science some think it is.

But here are a few things that cannot be overlooked.

When they molt they must have branches to grip or they will damage their feet. I've heard so many horror stories of Idolos that can't grip and everyone seems to think they just can't deal with mesh or screens beyond a certain stage of development. I don't think that's it at all. I now have 3 adults that can grip anything without problem. But if, directly after molt, they had tried to grip screen they would have damaged their grasping hooks. I saw it happen to a Heterochaeta. I believe the tiny hooks are still too soft so they tear off and the mantis falls. After they are dried out they can grip those same surfaces without issue. They also seem to do OK with loose mesh right after molt because they can wrap their feet around the fibers. Tightly knit mess, like that used for net cages, forces them to use the hooks.

The only other issue is you really need to pay attention and prepare a good space when they are ready to molt. They do not choose wisely and they need something directly in front to hang onto in addition to the old skin. I'd say that is the second reason so many report falls during molt. I either keep a separate enclosure just for molts or remove all but one or two to prevent accidental bumping. Using that mesh curtain has been a big help too but you have to be there when it happens for it to make a difference.

In my opinion if you address those two very important issues they are no more difficult than any other species. I can't comment on the complexities of breeding because I only have females, but I started with six L1 nymphs and now have 3 adults and one sub. One died early on during L2 molt which is pretty normal. The other made it all the way to sub and probably died due to the fall she had the previous molt. Thankfully, that was the only fall I experienced, and I used the lesson to prevent any more from falling.

Anyway, them's my two cents. :whistling:


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## sporeworld (Apr 28, 2011)

Yeah. More and more the contradictory reports just seem to suggest that they are heat and humditiy tollerant. But the thin branches and non-metal mesh cages seem to be the biggest factors.

we'll have to compare notes on just what a sub-to-adult molting chamber should look like...


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## sporeworld (Apr 28, 2011)

I started a new thread to try and wrangle all this info into something like a CareSheet. Love to get your collective help on it.

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=21061&amp;pid=157201&amp;st=0entry157201

Thanks.


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## animalexplorer (Apr 29, 2011)

I'm with precarious on the temps 80-85°F. Humidity 60-70% daytime worked out fine for me. The humidity was a little hard to maintain in the daytime as the heat from the bulbs were constantly bringing it down. I was misting 2 times a day one around 12 afternoon and one in the evening about an hour before turning the lights out. Humidity levels varied between 70-80 at night, it wasn't exact but pretty close. I use a enclosed glass terrarium to help stablize the variables. The top has a screen mesh but that was covered with a piece of cardboard with a small hole, to fit a hockey puck halogen light. The light hood houses a repti glo 5.0 UVB bulb which covers the other half but allows air circulation. It worked but I was not always there to mist at the exact time so I'm investing in a ultrasonic humidifier which will be activated by a timer switch.


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