# Florida mantids



## MANTIS DUDE (Jun 30, 2008)

I live in the state of Florida and I was wondering if anyone knew of any kind of mantis that lives here? If you know of this spiecies please tell me and also say how big they get.


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## Guest_Steve_* (Jun 30, 2008)

Hey, I also live in Florida, I have seen one hanging out on my house and I have no clue what it was because I just recently (today) found an interest in praying mantises. I would describe the size using L# but I don't know what that means yet but I would say it was between 2-4 inches long and green in color, I hope that helps atleast a little


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## ABbuggin (Jun 30, 2008)

Probably the most famous sp. of mantid in Florida is the Grizzled mantid. They basically look like a piece of bark and live on tree trunks.


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## ExoticOddities (Jul 1, 2008)

I live in the state of FL also (just moved here 4 months ago), and according to a 2003 .pdf report I read from the University of Florida College of Entomology, the following species can be found in Florida:

*Brunner’s Mantid* (_Brunneria borealis_)

*Carolina Mantid* (_Stagmomantis carolina_)

*Chinese Mantid* (_Tenodera aridifolia_)

*European Mantid* (_Mantis religiosa_)

*Grass-Like Mantid* (_Thesprotia graminis_)

*Grizzled Mantid* (_Gonatista grisea_)

*Larger Florida Mantid* (_Stagmomantis floridensis_)

*Minor Ground Mantid* (_Litaneutria minor_)

*Narrow-Winged Mantid* (_Tenodera angustipennis_)

*Scudder’s Mantid* (_Oligonicella scudderi_)

*Texas Unicorn Mantid* (_Phyllovates chlorophaea_)

Some of these species were introduced, but all of them are considered endemic to FL at this time. Florida is a big state, so naturally where you live will determine what species you might run into. I live just to the south of the Panhandle, west coast, and I have captured the following species thus far:



















Hope this helps,

Jack

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## Peter Clausen (Jul 1, 2008)

Excellent photos and information, Jack. Really neat to see you burst on the scene and represent some of Florida's great mantis species! It would be neat to see S. floridensis in the hobby. Anybody else ever see them offered? I can't recall ever seeing them.

Thanks for sharing.


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## Christian (Jul 1, 2008)

The correct name of the Chinese Mantid is _Tenodera sinensis_._ T. aridifolia_ never occurred in N-America.

_Phyllovates chlorophaea_ probably does not occur in Florida as well. At least there is no proven record mentioned. That pdf mentioned it for the case it should be found one day.


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## ExoticOddities (Jul 1, 2008)

Christian said:


> The correct name of the Chinese Mantid is _Tenodera sinensis_._ T. aridifolia_ never occurred in N-America._Phyllovates chlorophaea_ probably does not occur in Florida as well. At least there is no proven record mentioned. That pdf mentioned it for the case it should be found one day.


I don't know, as I have only gotten into this hobby recently. I have checked the references to both _Tenodera aridifolia_ and _Tenodera sinensis_, and what I find interesting is about 75% of the time the Chinese mantid is referred to as _Tenodera aridifolia sinensis_, combining the two names.

I don't know if there is confusion in species identification, if this is one and the same species, or if the American Universities of Florida, Berkeley, and Arkansas have got it all wrong, while you over there in Germany have it right.

But that is what the report said.

Jack


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## ExoticOddities (Jul 1, 2008)

Peter said:


> Excellent photos and information, Jack. Really neat to see you burst on the scene and represent some of Florida's great mantis species! It would be neat to see S. floridensis in the hobby. Anybody else ever see them offered? I can't recall ever seeing them.Thanks for sharing.


My pleasure.

It really is a good thing that Florida has so many different and interesting species, because the State of Florida absolutely forbids the importation of any exotic mantids. I recently obtained my permit to buy/sell/exhibit arthropods in this state, and while I may legally import exotic tarantulas, scorpions, and wolf spiders (must keep the latter under lock &amp; key) ... it is absolutely forbidden to bring-in any exotic mantid species.

I have already had several members of this forum be kind enough to offer trades of the fine species in their collections for some of the grizzleds I have offered, but I simply cannot legally bring-in any non-native Florida species, and so I had to decline.

Therefore, the good news is Florida offers such a bountiful fauna that it has enough interesting species of its own to keep me occupied  

There was another thread (in the Regulations section) about this subject, and some people found it hard to get through to the FL Department of Agriculture, but I had no problems at all, and their turn-around time to issue my arthropod permit was less than a week. Here is that thread:

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?sh...amp;#entry67079

So there is no ambiguity about the law at all, my own personal permit says "NO" to the importation of any non-native Florida species, and I followed-up by telephone to confirm the fact that I may export-out to others the mantids I find here, but I may not bring-in any non-native species.

Jack

PS: Peter: I intend to try to raise individuals of each species that I catch, so if I am successful I will offer examples up her from time-to-time.

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## Christian (Jul 1, 2008)

_T. sinensis_ was described as a subspecies of _T. aridifolia_ and treated like this for a long time. However, when comparing the two taxa, you see at once that they don't belong to the same species. Even though _T. sinensis_ was later consequently erected to species level, many researchers weren't aware of this change. Ecologists or physiologists aren't taxonomists and usually somewhat behind the respective actual taxonomic status. In such a case it is important to know that any work done on the N-American species has to be referred to _T. sinensis_, not _aridifolia_.

According to this, yes, we have it right.


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## ExoticOddities (Jul 1, 2008)

Christian said:


> _T. sinensis_ was described as a subspecies of _T. aridifolia_ and treated like this for a long time. However, when comparing the two taxa, you see at once that they don't belong to the same species. Even though _T. sinensis_ was later consequently erected to species level, many researchers weren't aware of this change. Ecologists or physiologists aren't taxonomists and usually somewhat behind the respective actual taxonomic status. In such a case it is important to know that any work done on the N-American species has to be referred to _T. sinensis_, not _aridifolia_. According to this, yes, we have it right.


Thanks for the clarification.

I am still curious to learn how you can be sure that every instance of a "Chinese" mantid ever brought-in to the United States is a _sinensis_, without exception.

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## Christian (Jul 1, 2008)

It is not important which species is introduced, but which on of those can build up a population. In fact, worldwide trade causes multiple introductions, only a few of which can establish a population. Concerning _Tenodera_, only _T. sinensis_ and _T. angustipennis_ could establish populations in N-America so far, as they originate from a comparable climate. The exact orogin seems to be unknown (for _T. angustipennis_ probably Japan), but they clearly appeared for the first time around Philadelphia and New York. As the ooths are sold in markets, they are still spreading today, at least the wrong idea of using them in pest management clearly contributed to the initial spread.

_T. aridifolia_ is a tropical to subtropical species and wouldn't be able to adapt ad hoc to a colder climate. This holds also for other species of the genus.

_M. religiosa_ and _Iris oratoria_ have spread without intentional human help.


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## ExoticOddities (Jul 1, 2008)

And what you said undoubtedly ties-in with why exotic mantid importation is forbidden in the State of Florida, precisely because it is a very hot, humid, sub-tropical climate here ... and many species probably could survive and populate here, where they could not in a colder climate.

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## Christian (Jul 1, 2008)

I will not comment very much on the sense or nonsense of such laws, as we have enough of such stuff over here I should care for. Just for clarifying:

Clearly, the history of alien invasions in the USA has driven the caution which is applied today to any potentially risky species. Biological invasions are to be taken seriously today. Particularly Florida has become home of almost any important invader.

Mantids, however, would cause no harm if some new alien species should establish. In this case, the caution is useless. N-America is depauperate regarding mantid diversity and the fact that 4 new species could establish without any problems in the last 100 years shows that there are several unexpoited niches. Comparable latitudes in other parts of the world have a much greater mantid diversity. But, as laws have to be applied on a broader scale, mantids may be regarded as unintentional victims.

It has also to be said that if hobbyists haven't released all their surplus stuff into the wild in the past, many of the problems would not exist today - as well as some laws intended to solve them. As usual, the problems are man-made.


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## Hypoponera (Jul 3, 2008)

Brunner’s Mantid (Brunneria borealis)

Carolina Mantid (Stagmomantis carolina)

Chinese Mantid (Tenodera aridifolia)

European Mantid (Mantis religiosa)

Grass-Like Mantid (Thesprotia graminis)

Grizzled Mantid (Gonatista grisea)

Larger Florida Mantid (Stagmomantis floridensis)

Minor Ground Mantid (Litaneutria minor)

Narrow-Winged Mantid (Tenodera angustipennis)

Scudder’s Mantid (Oligonicella scudderi)

Texas Unicorn Mantid (Phyllovates chlorophaea)

Nice list, but not entirely accurate I'm afraid.

Does any area of Florida get freezing weather continuously for a month or more on an annual basis? If not, European mantids will not be able to establish a long term population. Our _M. religiosa _population requires a period of cold exposure in order for the eggs to develop. So while a stray individual may get imported, I don't think the species will survive in Florida.

The minor ground mantid, (_Litaneutria minor_), is a Western species. Its range extends East only through Texas. I can find no reference to the species getting an farther east. Again, a stray individual may hitch a ride, but no population is established. The species doesn't do real well in very humid conditions.

The narrow-wing mantid, (_Tenodera angustipennis_), has a very restricted range. Currently the species is reliably found in parts of NY and Western most PA. Old range data suggests Virginia as the Southern extent of its range. But That may be due to misidentified specimens or extinct populations. Again, I found no reference to the species in Florida.

Christian already pointed out that the Texas Unicorn is not found in Florida.

Also, the list is missing a species that is found in Florida, the Little Yucatan mantid, _Mantoida maya_. It is an invasive species that is established in Southern Florida and oddly enough, the Santa Rita mountains of Arizona. It is possible that the Florida population has gone extinct though. Its a rather tiny species and rarely spotted.

But if that is the list Florida uses, that should allow you to "import" some species you won't find in the state!! Texas Unicorns are readily available in the hobby as are European mantids. I have some Narrow-wings that I hope to breed and would be happy to send you an ooth should I prove successful. If you need it, I can send you a key that covers all the species found in the US.


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## Christian (Jul 3, 2008)

@Hypoponera: nice comment, but some things aren't right:

1. _Mantoida maya_ is not an invasive species! It naturally occurs in Florida. It isn't extinct, but just difficult to spot, and only found in certain habitats. I didn't know of the Arizona population. Would you please give me the reference (via PM, if you want)? I would like to read about it. This is very interesting.

2. _Mantis religiosa_ could well establish populations in Florida. The initial N-American population originates from France, but the species is distributed throughout most of the southern parts of Eurasia, in Africa, Madagascar, Japan, SE Asia and the Sunda Ilses. There are deveral described subspecies, some of which are tropical. Even the European populations need a certain combination of photoperiodicy and temperature to induce diapause, otherwise some ooths hatch in fall. So, there aren't many adaptations required to build up a "Florida ecotype".

You are probably right, though, that the species hasn't reached Florida yet.


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## ExoticOddities (Jul 3, 2008)

Hypoponera said:


> Brunner’s Mantid (Brunneria borealis)Carolina Mantid (Stagmomantis carolina)
> 
> Chinese Mantid (Tenodera aridifolia)
> 
> ...


It's not my list; it came from the University of FL Dept. of Entomology I believe.



Hypoponera said:


> Does any area of Florida get freezing weather continuously for a month or more on an annual basis? If not, European mantids will not be able to establish a long term population. Our _M. religiosa _population requires a period of cold exposure in order for the eggs to develop. So while a stray individual may get imported, I don't think the species will survive in Florida.


Parts of north Florida get pretty cold, yes, but I am not sure any part of Florida actually freezes for a full month in a row.



Hypoponera said:


> The minor ground mantid, (_Litaneutria minor_), is a Western species. Its range extends East only through Texas. I can find no reference to the species getting an farther east. Again, a stray individual may hitch a ride, but no population is established. The species doesn't do real well in very humid conditions.


That's funny; I have found these mantids myself in both Tennessee and in Florida  

I have not seen any where I am living now, but 10 years ago (just outside of St. Augustine) I would find them rather frequently.



Hypoponera said:


> The narrow-wing mantid, (_Tenodera angustipennis_), has a very restricted range. Currently the species is reliably found in parts of NY and Western most PA. Old range data suggests Virginia as the Southern extent of its range. But That may be due to misidentified specimens or extinct populations. Again, I found no reference to the species in Florida.


Hmm, well, all I did was Google "Florida Mantids" a month or so ago, and right at the top of the list was a .pdf from the UFL that listed them as native. Click and see for yourself:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navc...florida+mantids



Hypoponera said:


> Christian already pointed out that the Texas Unicorn is not found in Florida.


I don't know, it was just on that list and so I included it trying to help answer the original question. Since you also claim that the ground mantid "is not found here," and since I personally have found several myself, I question your source of information on the matter.



Hypoponera said:


> Also, the list is missing a species that is found in Florida, the Little Yucatan mantid, _Mantoida maya_. It is an invasive species that is established in Southern Florida and oddly enough, the Santa Rita mountains of Arizona. It is possible that the Florida population has gone extinct though. Its a rather tiny species and rarely spotted.


You are quite right, and thank you for pointing this out. In fact, they are also listed on that .pdf, I just neglected to add them, and I likewise neglected to add _Callimantis floridana_, the *Smaller Florida Mantid*.



Hypoponera said:


> But if that is the list Florida uses, that should allow you to "import" some species you won't find in the state!! Texas Unicorns are readily available in the hobby as are European mantids. I have some Narrow-wings that I hope to breed and would be happy to send you an ooth should I prove successful. If you need it, I can send you a key that covers all the species found in the US.


I would be very grateful for that key, thank you. But like all such keys they are incomplete.

What is interesting is, for the world of butterflies, they have a website called www.butterfliesandmoths.org where you can get range maps, down to the county, of where each species has been located and identified. They even let interested laymen help and participate, and refer you to a "designated lepidopterist" in your area who will confirm IDs on the species you find. As more and more people gather to report, photograph, and document the species they find in their particular county, the more and more full and complete the range map for species becomes. And the more accurate.

Just as an example, when I lived in Tennessee for 7 years, only in my last year did I become active in participating with this website ... and I identified 12 species of butterfly that had never before been ID'd in my county (Cheatham county) in one summer alone, 2 of which had never (or seldom) been ID'd in my state.

It would be interesting if someone would build such a database for mantids and mantid-lovers, where people from all over the country could participate and report-in, although I would imagine that mantids will never enjoy the massive volume of fanciers that butterflies have.

Jack

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## mrblue (Jul 3, 2008)

interesting thread, i had no idea there were so many species established in usa. though it is a pretty big place with varied climates so i guess it was to be expected.


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## ExoticOddities (Jul 3, 2008)

mrblue said:


> interesting thread, i had no idea there were so many species established in usa. though it is a pretty big place with varied climates so i guess it was to be expected.


Florida in particular has such a different climate from nearly all the other states that it is little wonder it would be home to an over-abundance of insects and spiders. I remember when I was heavy into documenting butterflies that the southern tip of Florida in particular had species there that no other area of the USA enjoyed (the Malachite being but one example).

What really blew me away, however, was the fact that the southern tip of Texas had an equally-diverse, or an even more diverse, butterfly population as did the southern tip of Florida, regularly enjoying the strays from Mexico and Central America into its gardens and flowers. This same truth holds for various reptile species, and I would imagine that the same truth would apply to various mantid species as well.

Jack

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## Christian (Jul 3, 2008)

_Callimantis floridana_ isn't a valid name. It is a synonym of _Stagmomantis vicina_, which should occur in Florida. However, it may well be that _St. vicina_ is also a synonym of some other _Stagmomantis_ species. This genus lacks a revision, as often...

_Callimantis_ is actually a somewhat strange, monotypic genus from the Greater Antilles.

Both SE Texas and Florida are subtropical, but their fauna is slightly different due to biogeographic constrictions. While Florida has more affinities to the Antilles and the Yucatan Peninsula, SE Texas is reached by some primary tropical taxa from mainland Mesoamerica. Very good examples are found in mantids: _Gonatista_ is primarily a Carribean genus; _Mantoida maya_ originates from the Yucatan Peninsula. _Phyllovates chlorophaea_ ("forest" species) and _Pseudovates arizonae_ ("arid" species) both belong to genera with their highest diversity in South and Central America. _Oligonicella _, _Thesprotia_ and _Stagmomantis_ are also Meso- and South American, but have protruded farther into the Nearktis.


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## MANTIS DUDE (Jul 3, 2008)

Christian said:


> _Callimantis floridana_ isn't a valid name. It is a synonym of _Stagmomantis vicina_, which should occur in Florida. However, it may well be that _St. vicina_ is also a synonym of some other _Stagmomantis_ species. This genus lacks a revision, as often..._Callimantis_ is actually a somewhat strange, monotypic genus from the Greater Antilles.
> 
> Both SE Texas and Florida are subtropical, but their fauna is slightly different due to biogeographic constrictions. While Florida has more affinities to the Antilles and the Yucatan Peninsula, SE Texas is reached by some primary tropical taxa from mainland Mesoamerica. Very good examples are found in mantids: _Gonatista_ is primarily a Carribean genus; _Mantoida maya_ originates from the Yucatan Peninsula. _Phyllovates chlorophaea_ ("forest" species) and _Pseudovates arizonae_ ("arid" species) both belong to genera with their highest diversity in South and Central America. _Oligonicella _, _Thesprotia_ and _Stagmomantis_ are also Meso- and South American, but have protruded farther into the Nearktis.


I have been hearing all these sientifec name and I have no idea what they mean. :huh: Is there a specsiel meaning for each one in latin?


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## MANTIS DUDE (Jul 3, 2008)

ExoticOddities said:


> I live in the state of FL also (just moved here 4 months ago), and according to a 2003 .pdf report I read from the University of Florida College of Entomology, the following species can be found in Florida:*Brunner’s Mantid* (_Brunneria borealis_)
> 
> *Carolina Mantid* (_Stagmomantis carolina_)
> 
> ...


That was very helpfull and that was very consderate of you! I happen to live in southern florida and I was wondering if you knew of any spieses that primaraly live down here, do you know of any such mantids?


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## ExoticOddities (Jul 3, 2008)

I really don't, sorry.

You might want to plug-in each scientific name into Google and add +range and see what you come up with.

For instance, Gonatista grisea+range, and if you read through a few you can usually get an idea if the species is in your area or not. Or you can try "south florida+mantids" and see what you come up with ...

Jack

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