# need help iidentifying



## craigonator (Mar 6, 2007)

hey all,

just got a mantid ootheca and I have no idea what sp it is. the ootheca itself looks similar to the egyptian mantid ootheca, but the nymphs look like ants, anyone know what sp this is? It's native to Costa Rica.

thanks much,

Craig Condon


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## Isis (Mar 6, 2007)

Wow, a mantis in a shrimp form  

I have no idea but it looks like a primitive species, sometking like Mantoida, but it is of course a different species...


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## Rick (Mar 6, 2007)

No idea Craig. Welcome to the site. Be sure to check out the introductions forum.


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## robo mantis (Mar 6, 2007)

Don't know i guess you either ask the seller or just wait and see until they grow some more.


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## OGIGA (Mar 6, 2007)

That definately looks like a shrimp! I wouldn't have guessed that it's a mantis.


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## Peekaboo (Mar 6, 2007)

I'm not even sure that is a mantis.


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## Jay (Mar 7, 2007)

Hi Craig,

Your name sounds familiar. Were you into mantises in 2002?


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## craigonator (Mar 7, 2007)

yeah around that time, I'm just starting to get back into them.

but about the sp I found, it _is_ a mantid.

-craig


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## francisco (Mar 7, 2007)

Hello Craig,

Perhaps what you found is a Mantoida sp ooth.

they are very small mantids and feed on the ground, so look for springtails or baby pillbugs

I would love to raise some in case you need help or if you want to trade.

regards

FT


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## francisco (Mar 7, 2007)

Hello All,

Craig I did some research and I found out, that the only Mantoida sp that is from that locality is:

Mantoida schadreri from Costa Rica and Panama

regards

FT


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## Isis (Mar 7, 2007)

So actually I guessed correctly  

I'm looking forward to seeing more pics while they are growing up!


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## Rob Byatt (Mar 7, 2007)

That is a wierd looking mantis nymph !

I would go with the ID by Isis and Fransisco - _Mantoida_ sp. - the antennae are aften very long in this genus.

It is most definately a mantis though - only mantids have an apical hook.

Good luck with these Craig.

Rob.


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## ABbuggin (Mar 7, 2007)

Hello,

Do you happen to have any extra Mantoida sp. for sale or trade? I am very interesteed!

Thanks,

AB


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## Christian (Mar 7, 2007)

Hi.

I would await the next molt - if they survive as long. Primitive mantids are rather difficult. If the pronotum is still as short, it could well be _Mantoida_. If it becomes somewhat longer, it may turn out to be _Liturgusa_. At moment, it looks more like _Mantoida_ to me. In both cases very interesting. I would be interested in those.

Regards,

Christian


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## francisco (Mar 7, 2007)

Hello ALl,

I agree with Christian, as I told you on the IM it might also be Liturgosa.

One thing that really puzzle me is the Cerci,it is so long on the pics you showed us.

Try to get them to eat the springtails,small raoches,small pillbus and sowbugs, try everything.

A few years back I received an ooth from Mexico, it was for sure a Liturgosa sp, they were so tiny that even D melanogaster were bigger, I was able to raise only two of them to L2, then I lost them.

Good luck Craig.

FT


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## yen_saw (Mar 7, 2007)

Oh nice! thought i was looking at a termite on the first pic, and then firebrate on the second pic. Very tiny!! How many hatched out from the ooth? Do you still have the ootheca?? My guess is Liturgusa sp.


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## francisco (Mar 8, 2007)

HEllo Craig,

How is the mantid doing? I hope is doing good.

It seems like also Liturgusa sp could be another posibility.

Here is a list of Liturgusa sp from Costa Rica

L annulipes

L atricoxata

L charpenteri

L cursor

L maya

I am also including a pic of a Liturgusa ooth and some pics from a Liturgusa sp from French Guyana.





















REgards to all.

FT


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## OGIGA (Mar 8, 2007)

> I am also including a pic of a Liturgusa ooth and some pics from a Liturgusa sp from French Guyana.


Hmm, looks like nothing I'm familiar with. Is this really an ooth? How big is it?


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## francisco (Mar 8, 2007)

Hello,

I am asuming the ooth is about 1 cm more or less

FT


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## craigonator (Mar 11, 2007)

great,

first off, So far I only have one mantid, secondly, the mantid ooth is about 1 cm, and it does resemble an egyptian mantid ootheca, I will post photos soon.

-Craig Condon


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## robo mantis (Mar 11, 2007)

Ok


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## AFK (Mar 14, 2007)

whoa. definitely have never seen any mantis like that!!! world's longest cerci ever lol! :lol: 

definitely looks primitive though.


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## mantisdeperu (Mar 20, 2007)

Here the opinion of Julio Rivera. He is an Specialist in Neotropical Mantids Taxonomy.

_Hello there: Very interesting specimen. What you have there is either Mantoida or Chaeteessa, the two most "primitive" Mantodea genera. I believe that it is actually Chaeteessa. This genus is the only mantid that lack the apical spur in the fore tibiae, therefore the tarsi inserts apically instead of laterally as in all other mantids. The tibiae are a little bended outwardly so that the distal most internal spine acts as an apical pur...some authors believe this represents a primitive condition based on comparisions to the fossil record where earlier species lacked this apical spur, but I think this is a secondary condition in Chaeteessa (i.e. they lost the apical spur...). Look for the apical spur...if absent then it is a chaeteessa...the very long cerci and the characteristic banded limbs are also a good indication that this is the case._

Anyways...this genus is extremely rare. Very little is known about it and only 5 species are known. The genus seems to be widely distributed in tropical areas of S. America and C. America but it is seldom collected...it

has not been "oficially" recorded for central america but I have seen specimens from Nicaragua as well, probably the same species. I have never seen the egg cases. The taxonomy of this genus is very chaotic too,

so it is very unlikely that this species can be linked with any existing name in the literature with confidence.

It would be great if you can add pictures of the egg cases.

Good luck with the mantid. Their behaviour and biology is very different than all other mantids...it will be a challenge for sure, and if you get adults you would be the first Homo sapiens in succesfully breading this

species in captivity.


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## Rob Byatt (Mar 24, 2007)

Have we any news on these Craig ?


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