# Communal Mantis Shedding



## Rib (Nov 26, 2005)

Hi, I've kept mantids for a fair while myself but never communally before. I have 4 nymph ghosts on the way from mr French and I intend to keep them all together. The only prroblem I have is that I was wondering how they shed they're skins safely. I know it may sound silly, but even mantids from the same batch shed they're skins at different times, sometimes very different. For example I have two Dead Leaf females from the same batch who are shedding 2 weeks apart from each other. During and after shedding they're skin, a mantis is obviously very vulnerable. With regards to mantids widely regarded as communal, has anyone here ever run into trouble when it comes to shedding, especially during the more mature end of the cycle?


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## Andrew (Nov 26, 2005)

> Hi, I've kept mantids for a fair while myself but never communally before. I have 4 nymph ghosts on the way from mr French and I intend to keep them all together.


They are most likely going to cannibalize each other. Since you are only getting four, why not just keep them separately?

Thanks,

Andrew


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## Rib (Nov 27, 2005)

Space is a big issue for me. Alot of people have successfully kept these together without even having to seperate male and females though. I was just wondering if any special care was required when shedding. i.e. when you think they're about to shed do you have to seperate them and then regroup them afterwards?


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## Andrew (Nov 27, 2005)

Alright man, just dont be shocked when/if you start finding their remains on the bottom of the cage.



> when you think they're about to shed do you have to seperate them and then regroup them afterwards?


That would probably be the best thing to do. You dont want any of its cagemates disturbing it while its molting.

Thanks,

Andrew


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## Rick (Nov 27, 2005)

Really should keep them seperate. Losing a ghost is not a good thing. I keep most mantids together until about L3 and they don't seem to bother any that are molting.


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## Isis (Nov 27, 2005)

I know that most of species are not getting on very well with other from their species, but e.g. C. saussuri, which I keep are a.... kind of social creatures, if they're fed that is. They have funny gesture when communicating with each other  

But keeping ghosts... I think it is a risk.

As to my experience in shedding Ceratomantis saussuri together: they have no problems. They keep a distance over 1-3 cm from sheddin creature. Or maybe it is just a ecxeption because of their lack of arrgesivity?


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## Sheldon Johnson (Nov 28, 2005)

Here is the deal; dont bother. Breed them, then when you've got higher numbers try it out, but until then, just don't bother, its a waste of time, a waste of money and a waste of a perfectly good mantis and you dont have the numbers to tolerate any screw ups.

Also i dont see how you can say you dont have the space, I have 4 ghosts in 4 seperate containers, stacked ontop of each other, taking up a space of 3"x5"x15", which isnt much bigger than a tank you'd need for a ghost colony anyway.

However if you are going to do it, i would sugest from my experience with gongylus that yes, unless you give them enough space there will be trouble, and there always can be regardless. On the other hand, gongylus are a very active mantis, whilst ghosts are from from it in comparison, so i guess the chance of a disturbed moult are lower. regardless colonies are alot of work to start with, but when you get a stable setup, they are more than worth it.

One last thing, if you do choose to colonise your ghosts, i would advise on a verticle tank over a horizontal one, but this might be a litle expensive for only 4 ghosts, so a wilco tank may do the trick (i was keeping 10 L4/5 gongy's in these at a time, which is about the size of an adult adult female ghost).


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## Rib (Nov 28, 2005)

> Here is the deal; dont bother. Breed them, then when you've got higher numbers try it out, but until then, just don't bother, its a waste of time, a waste of money and a waste of a perfectly good mantis and you dont have the numbers to tolerate any screw ups.Also i dont see how you can say you dont have the space, I have 4 ghosts in 4 seperate containers, stacked ontop of each other, taking up a space of 3"x5"x15", which isnt much bigger than a tank you'd need for a ghost colony anyway.
> 
> However if you are going to do it, i would sugest from my experience with gongylus that yes, unless you give them enough space there will be trouble, and there always can be regardless. On the other hand, gongylus are a very active mantis, whilst ghosts are from from it in comparison, so i guess the chance of a disturbed moult are lower. regardless colonies are alot of work to start with, but when you get a stable setup, they are more than worth it.
> 
> One last thing, if you do choose to colonise your ghosts, i would advise on a verticle tank over a horizontal one, but this might be a litle expensive for only 4 ghosts, so a wilco tank may do the trick (i was keeping 10 L4/5 gongy's in these at a time, which is about the size of an adult adult female ghost).


Space wouldnt usually be an issue for me but I am currently at university and needless to say halls are never very big on shelf space, or any type of space for that matter. Out of curiosity, why use a vertical one rather than a horizntal one? I would have assumed the opposite, in fact this evening i was planning on buying a longer tank as i assumed the more room on the ceiling there is the better. I'll put off buying it until i hear from you again though.


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## Sheldon Johnson (Nov 28, 2005)

My reasoning looks something like this... (please excuse the somewhat terible sturcture of my explanation - im very tired!)

Assuming you get a reasonable sized tank, I find that a verticle tank with either a heat lamp on top or heat mat down the side gives a greater temperature varriable.

In my violin colony i find that they move freely to where best suits them and often his will be to cooler tmeperatures for various reasons, so the greater the varriable the happier they are.

In both my colony setups 1 measuring 6'x2'x3' the other measuring 2'x2'x5' (LxWxH) i found that the mantids would always distance themselves from the floor by about a minimum of 10", thus making roughly 1/3 of the horizontal tank useless.

You had a problem with floor space right, not ceiling space? up is the way to go!


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## Rib (Nov 28, 2005)

the space thing is a fair point. I've been looking into it some more and decided to keep them together until I can accurately distinguish the sex's and then seperate them into two smaller tanks. I think upwards is defaintely the way to go in this case  Cheers


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