# How to determine gender for L3/L4 Idolomantis diabolica



## yen_saw

I apologize for not posting this sooner as there are quite a few members been asking me the same question. I have the same problem sexing younger stage Idolomantis too so I decided to put some time observing the differences between male and female. After confirming the finding with a friend I think the appearance is quite consistent.

Lets start with male. At L3, there is a small protruding pointy 'spike' sticking out from the 6th segment. From the side view below (see circle on pic) you can see the additional spike.







For female, that spike is non-existence.






The additional spike can actually be seen as early as L2 for Idolomantis male, but probably need a magnifying glass to spot it.

Now from top view. At L3, there is a 'V' notch for the female on 6th segment (See circle)






As for male, there is no notch, but a small extended lobe instead (See circle), although not very obvious from top view.






Hope this help everyone in sexing Idolomantis.

Now lets get a little practice here and see if you can sex the Idolomantis correctly at younger stage. (Scrolll down for answer)

A






B






C






D






A,C - Male

B,D - Female

Easy right?


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## agent A

I thought a was the only male lol

Yen, in blephs the female's last spike is large and the rest of the end of the abdomen is smooth, the males have a lobe that breaks up the end of the abdomen (I'll post pics if need be)

Does this apply to idolos as well???


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## yen_saw

agent A said:


> I thought a was the only male lol
> 
> Yen, in blephs the female's last spike is large and the rest of the end of the abdomen is smooth, the males have a lobe that breaks up the end of the abdomen (I'll post pics if need be)
> 
> Does this apply to idolos as well???


Well C is also a male.... see the additional spike in circle





Well your observation might apply to Idolo as well i didn't check on that one. Did you see that difference when your blephs were at L3?


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## patrickfraser

That's easy. From early instars, I use a loupe and look for notch or no notch.


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## Mvalenz

Sweet! 4 out of 4 correct. Im gonna go see what I have.


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## angelofdeathzz

Thanks Yen for posting this, and I had them all correct! Maybe I can use my camera macro to see this since I lack a magnifying glass.


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## jcal

Pimp


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## Bryce08

1+1 might have been a little harder, nice yen and thanks for the info, actualy helps me sex some of mine, now lets see if i do it right


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## sporeworld

Amazing!


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## Precarious

Yen comes through AGAIN! :clap: 

Where would we be without this guy???

And nice photos too.


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## Chivalry

Thank you so much for this info and excellent clear pics!!


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## patrickfraser

Precarious said:


> Yen comes through AGAIN! :clap:
> 
> Where would we be without this guy???
> 
> And nice photos too.


I'd probably have a lot less mantids. :lol:


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## Rick

I pinned this. Thanks Yen.


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## agent A

yen_saw said:


> Well C is also a male.... see the additional spike in circle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well your observation might apply to Idolo as well i didn't check on that one. Did you see that difference when your blephs were at L3?


Yes but I find I have better accuracy with blephies at L4 since they r a bit bigger  

I'll start a topic on it


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## warpdrive

thanks Yen. you did a fantastic job with your pictures. keep up the great work.

since I was already going to split up some of your Idolos today into 2 exoteras from the net cage they are in, NOW I'll probably just transfer the females and keep the males in the net cage for another molt.

WHY? well my net cage doesn't have any extra heat from a light bulb. the temps in my bedroom (aka:bug room) can be between 78F-84F durring the day, and 74F-78F at night. temps might be a bit low in the room, but my guys are eating well and don't seem to be effected.

the males growth should be a bit slower as compared to the girls in an exoterra with a 40W or 60W bulb.

I'll still move my males to an exoterra in a week (or slightly less). I may also move them back to a net cage after molting for a week or so, again to help slow the males groth down.

what is so great about us silly people who can now sex their Idlos sooner is the fact that you now don't have to start slowing down the males at L6 or above. as this can sometimes weaken them before they molt.

in other words, we can now slow down the growth of the males even slower and safer. I like that.

Harry

oh and Yen, you did such a great job that the death threats should now stop. have a great day.


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## gripen

Very nice yen! I was only able to notice those things at L5. Unfortunately now I have a long day trying to sex my young idolos ahead of me. sigh.


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## agent A

gripen said:


> Very nice yen! I was only able to notice those things at L5. Unfortunately now I have a long day trying to sex my young idolos ahead of me. sigh.


I'll help u


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## gripen

agent A said:


> I'll help u


Darn you and your friendly offers


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## agent A

gripen said:


> Darn you and your friendly offers


Just post or pm me good pics of the side of the abdomen gripen buddy


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## brancsikia339

Yen, I sexed 2 of my idolos (one is male, other is female) but the male (even though i mist him constantly) bites the top of the cage with his arms wide open, and then sways violently back and forth. What's wrong? What should I do?


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## agent A

brancsikia339 said:


> Yen, I sexed 2 of my idolos (one is male, other is female) but the male (even though i mist him constantly) bites the top of the cage with his arms wide open, and then sways violently back and forth. What's wrong? What should I do?


Do his claws get stuck in the lid mesh? That's the only reason my gongies did that


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## gripen

agent A said:


> Do his claws get stuck in the lid mesh? That's the only reason my gongies did that


+1


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## brancsikia339

agent A said:


> Do his claws get stuck in the lid mesh? That's the only reason my gongies did that


I don't know. All I know is that I mist idolos accordingly and even when he wasn't wet and nothing around him was wet he did that.


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## gripen

Sounds like he is getting stuck.


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## brancsikia339

gripen said:


> Sounds like he is getting stuck.


Yeah. Two of them like to hang out up on the netting and the other 2 hang out on tree branches.


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## warpdrive

while your guys might be getting stuck, I have not noticed this at all in my screen cage and I watch them a lot.

what I do notice is that they do drink from the net if wet.

while I hope that yours are not getting stuck, I would watch more closely to make sure that is the reason.

also, let's try to create a new post to talk about problems. this thread should be used for questions about the topic at hand and maybe to post some photos to ask for help with the sex.

Harry


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## SilentDeviL

Nice yen ~~~!!!


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## agent A

This is a great thread

I'm gonna put a link to it on my signature and have it say "yen saw is awesome"

If he doesn't mind...


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## brancsikia339

brancsikia339 said:


> Yeah. Two of them like to hang out up on the netting and the other 2 hang out on tree branches.


Problem solved! He moulted to L4!! He was just goin' spazzy :tt2: :blink: :stuart:


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## MX83Drifter

Thanks again Yen for all the information! I'm sure you helped a lot of people by posting this.


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## GreenOasis

I have always just looked for the extra segment in the male. Seems easy enough...but now I know how to double-check on those "iffy" ones. Thanks!


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## yen_saw

Glad the information help  



GreenOasis said:


> I have always just looked for the extra segment in the male. Seems easy enough...but now I know how to double-check on those "iffy" ones. Thanks!


 All the younger stage Idolomantis show 8 segments. The female 6th segment will cover the last two segments as they aged while the male's 7th and 8th segment continue to grow which make it easy to sex when they are larger.


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## sporeworld

Thanks again, Yen - for all your help on this and about a jazillion other topics (and for getting be started with my first batch of these beasts!).

If there are no other comments (and with your blessings), I'd like to add this to the Consolidated thread's first page, and eventually to the final compiled Caresheet.


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## yen_saw

Hey no problem. PM you.


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## sporeworld

Thanks!!! Got it!


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## Psychobunny

Yen, I am so glad you posted this because I was trying to sex my 4 idolo's yesterday and found

that the usual method does not apply to these guys, so I was clueless! until now, thank you Yen  

Another contribution to the forum, you are a true asset


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## Emckenzie24

Wow! Excellent!!! I'm fairly new and I got them all right  

Also, I found I have two males!!! I lost one today unfortunately (devastatingly) so before I bury him/her I will check this.  

Now hopefully I'll get myself a female!

Thank you so much!


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## brancsikia339

I started off with two females and two males


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## fleurdejoo

Omg! That was easy!

I'm surprised.


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