# Cricket dilemma and feeding advice *URGENT*



## Mantidkid (Jul 27, 2017)

hello I got some small crickets today for my l5 mantis. I fed her one house fly and two crickets after that and I'm thinking of doing that every day. Is that a good idea? Also after I'd fed my mantis the crickets straight away after getting them I read that they should be put on a diet before feeding. That stressed me out a bit. Also I'm feeding them bug grub and bug gel to drink (water turned into jelly so they can't drown) there it was a nightmare getting them from the store tub into the cricket keeper then I read that all dead ones should be removed and there are quite a few dead ones in there. How do I get them out?? Since I got them (about 5 hours ago there numbers seemed to have thinned out a bit too, also they are all crowding round the bug gel like they are desperately thirsty they are pretty much all on top of each other in it. I don't know what to do? Please help!!!!!!


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## Mantidkid (Jul 27, 2017)




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## izbiggs (Jul 27, 2017)

@Mantidkid Two crickets and a fly a day is a lot of food for a mantis! That sounds good for every other day or every two days. You don't have to have a strict regimen on feeding, either; you can rely on looking at how full your mantis is. 

About the crickets: Pet store crickets are notorious for being bad for your mantis, as they eat the dead carcasses of each other and as a result ingest harmful bacteria that will kill your mantis. Don't panic! If your mantis just ate two crickets, she'll probably be alright. I would suggest feeding her some organic honey to be safe and hopefully help prevent that cricket bacteria from infecting her.

It's very important to remove dead cricket carcasses from the cricket container. The crickets will eat the dead carcasses and give themselves bad bacteria that your mantis will then ingest. Just like you wouldn't feed your mantis crickets that have been dead for days, you shouldn't let your crickets eat that either. Also, a cheaper and more healthy alternative than cricket food that you buy at the pet store would be to feed your crickets fruits, veggies, and greens. Healthy cricket salad! It's good for crickets to eat that for a few days at least before feeding them to your mantis. Your mantis will be fine for a few days, especially if she already ate. I would suggest having your own cricket container that you have nice and clean and pick out dead crickets every day. With all of these things in place, it is quite unlikely that your mantis will die from infected crickets! A good principle is whatever your mantid's food eats, your mantid eats! 

There are tons of good threads about keeping crickets for your mantis to eat on this forum. I just covered the basic principles of all of them! You should also ask @CosbyArt about his cricket setup, because I know he has a great one. Best of luck on your cricket adventures!


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## Mantidkid (Jul 28, 2017)

@izbiggs ok I'll remove all the dead crickets today and I was recommended to put in a substrate of oat meal but I have none so until I get some what should be the substrate?


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## Teamonger (Jul 28, 2017)

@Mantidkid As for getting in and out of your cricket bin. The cricket keepers they sell at the stores are horrible for that! The issue is that they are not deep enough, to ensure you can safely get into your bin without half of them escaping you need a deeper bin to keep them in. Many people use the big Rubbermaid tubs and I have done that myself with no issues.

Another trick to helping you get them out is to remove the egg crate and replace it with toilet paper rolls. This way they all hide in the rolls and when its time to get a few out you can pick up one roll slowly and then shake them into another container with one end covered. I personally use a tennis ball tube bottle (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Penn-Championship-Extra-Duty-Tennis-Ball/9906177) to get the crickets I want. Its deep enough they can't jump out (unless they manage to jump to your hand as you are shaking) and its the perfect size to slowly lower a toilet paper tube into then shake like mad.


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## dubia4life (Jul 28, 2017)

izbiggs said:


> I would suggest feeding her some organic honey to be safe and hopefully help prevent that cricket bacteria from infecting her.


Sorry to change the subject, but I had no idea mantids could eat honey? What are its benefits? Can they eat other non-prey items, for example: fresh fruit?


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## Mantidkid (Jul 28, 2017)

dubia4life said:


> Sorry to change the subject, but I had no idea mantids could eat honey? What are its benefits? Can they eat other non-prey items, for example: fresh fruit?


I'm not sure about all kinds of fruit but I do know that they will eat banana and I know from experience that they love it! However they won't be able to survive on a diet of only fruit and/or honey. I'm pretty sure that honey is like a medicine for mantids BUT ONLY ORGANIC honey. The normal stuff you get in the shops has bad chemicals in it.


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## dubia4life (Jul 28, 2017)

Mantidkid said:


> I'm not sure about all kinds of fruit but I do know that they will eat banana and I know from experience that they love it! However they won't be able to survive on a diet of only fruit and/or honey. I'm pretty sure that honey is like a medicine for mantids BUT ONLY ORGANIC honey. The normal stuff you get in the shops has bad chemicals in it.


Ah okay, I didn't know mantids had such a sweet tooth... er... mandible? Lol, anyways I kind of figured that about non-organic honey, my pet and feeder bugs always get organic fruits/veggies seeing as how I don't want to risk pesticides. Thanks!


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## CosbyArt (Jul 29, 2017)

@Mantidkid Sadly most crickets straight from the pet store are malnourished, and hungry to the point they are highly aggressive and turn on each other and possibly mantids or other pets too. Indeed already dead or dying crickets make easier prey for the living, so it can lead to bacteria and other nastiness.

Thankfully not all pet stores are so bad, but most tend not to spend money feeding crickets until they are sold. With few stores only giving them water or water gel crystals when the crickets are sold. To combat the issue, the crickets should be well feed and watered at least 24-48 hours before using them as feeders. Not only does it increase their potential use as a feeder with good nutrients, it makes the crickets much less aggressive.

If though if the mantid has been without feeders, or the keeper does not know of the potential danger, a few cricket feeders usually does not affect a healthy mantid.

Depending on the amount of crickets you may need several feeding and watering containers for them all to have access. In the photos above it appears you do not have enough space for the crickets to access food/water. I personally use two 5" containers for water, and another for food, but then again I use 56 quart or larger storage containers for cricket tanks.

To remove dead crickets using tongs/tweezers works great and keeps your fingers clean.  Although I imagine you are asking how to get the crickets from the container to the  mantid habitat easier.

Regarding from the pet store to your cricket container, all pets stores I've bought from, put crickets in plastic bags that easily shake into my containers (or a funnel can be used too if needed). If you get crickets in boxes or other materials, you best option is to put them into the cricket tank inside a large container to prevent escapes - a decent sized bathtub works in most cases. Now how to easily get crickets out of their container to use as feeders depends on a few things.

For example if you bought the Kricket Keeper type containers to house the crickets, they have removable tubes that the crickets hide in. To use those just pull out the tube, blocking the bottom of the tube and pour out a few into your mantid habitat. For other cricket containers you can simply use tongs/tweezers to capture crickets, being careful not to crush and killing the crickets. After some experience it can be a rather easy task, I do that myself with my 10" tongs when I have only a few hungry mouths.

A much easier way is to use a small holding container, I find the empty Walmart cotton candy tubs work great. Those tubs are about 4" round base and about a 12" tall preventing crickets from escaping. With the holding container simply shake the cricket egg crates, cardboard tubes, etc into the container while held over the cricket tank. Then you can now easily grab the crickets from the holding container with tongs/tweezers, fingers (not recommended as you can easily crush the crickets and they can bite), or shake a few crickets into a funnel in your mantids feeding hole.

If you have any questions just ask, I've used them for years and mine successfully breed in large numbers keeping their colony/culture self-sustaining. The subject is one that I have started for another guide, but will be awhile until it is posted.


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## CosbyArt (Jul 29, 2017)

@Mantidkid I forgot to mention for substrate you can use any grain type material (cheap and recycles in compost bin) to help absorb cricket urine/frass keeping smell down, and providing them traction to move around the plastic bottom easier with oats (steam rolled human grade oats) being the more common option. I would recommend keeping it very thin in depth, as they rarely eat it and it will quickly loose it value as food anyway. It can also lead to mold or pests as well if it gets wet, comes in contact with water dishes, or kept warm (grain mites).

The other common alternative is using vermiculite, found at hardware/garden centers like Lowe's. No value as food, but helps absorb cricket odors much better, and still allows crickets to move freely. It's claimed to be inert if a few crazy crickets decide to eat it, and will not hurt them or whatever they are fed to.

Lastly if you use a natural substrate material like sphagnum peat moss, dirt/soil, or such they will dig tunnels in it making it much harder to use them as feeders - not to mention much more difficult to clean.

Speaking of cleaning - dead crickets should be removed weekly or sooner, substrate changed out every 2-4 weeks (will keep the smell/odor down too), and other cleaning as needed. For example some keepers will transplant the crickets to another container and completely clean out the cricket tank every 1-2 months with soapy water, but if other cleaning duties are preformed I haven't found a need for a complete cleaning usually.


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## Mantidkid (Jul 29, 2017)

CosbyArt said:


> @Mantidkid I forgot to mention for substrate you can use any grain type material (cheap and recycles in compost bin) to help absorb cricket urine/frass keeping smell down, and providing them traction to move around the plastic bottom easier with oats (steam rolled human grade oats) being the more common option. I would recommend keeping it very thin in depth, as they rarely eat it and it will quickly loose it value as food anyway. It can also lead to mold or pests as well if it gets wet, comes in contact with water dishes, or kept warm (grain mites).
> 
> The other common alternative is using vermiculite, found at hardware/garden centers like Lowe's. No value as food, but helps absorb cricket odors much better, and still allows crickets to move freely. It's claimed to be inert if a few crazy crickets decide to eat it, and will not hurt them or whatever they are fed to.
> 
> ...


Wow thanks


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## CosbyArt (Jul 29, 2017)

Mantidkid said:


> Wow thanks


Your welcome, I hope it helps.  

If you have any other questions or want to see a photo of something just let me know. I have thousands of photos I haven't shared online (and even more just for my use), as I have too many projects and work, to write guides to go with some of those photos at the moment.

I'm hoping when things calm down this fall I can update my previous ones, and post *many *new guides.


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## Mantidkid (Jul 29, 2017)

CosbyArt said:


> Your welcome, I hope it helps.
> 
> If you have any other questions or want to see a photo of something just let me know. I have thousands of photos I haven't shared online (and even more just for my use), as I have too many projects and work, to write guides to go with some of those photos at the moment.
> 
> I'm hoping when things calm down this fall I can update my previous ones, and post *many *new guides.


something's wrong with my mantis, the eyes are a murky red colour and appears to have black liquid in her mouth, also this morning she wouldn't take food and went crazy and started jumping and running around. I think it might be the Black Death please help!???


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## Mantidkid (Jul 29, 2017)

Mantidkid said:


> something's wrong with my mantis, the eyes are a murky red colour and appears to have black liquid in her mouth, also this morning she wouldn't take food and went crazy and started jumping and running around. I think it might be the Black Death please help!???


No other symptoms


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## Mantidkid (Jul 29, 2017)




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## izbiggs (Jul 29, 2017)

@Mantidkid Some Mantid's eyes turn different colors at night or in the dark, like that reddish color in your photos! Maybe that could be it? I know my mantises' eyes are still sometimes a different color when I check on them in the morning. 

Is she vomiting? If you don't see actual vomit, just maybe liquid in her mouth, I would say that is good. Also, maybe she's not hungry! Energy is always a good sign in a mantis! Black Death usually includes very foul smelling black vomit and a very lethargic mantis.

I really hope that she's okay!! Keep posting updates!


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## CosbyArt (Jul 30, 2017)

@Mantidkid A eye color change has nothing to do with feeders, water, etc they do it naturally at night (or in any low light as well). For the reason behind the natural change in color read this post. Of course though sometimes it isn't just that, and no longer seems to change color. See other related posts below (or search the forum for lots more)...  



The liquid in her mouth could be a few things, but "black death" it likely is not.

The "black death" is evident by parts of the exoskeleton turning black (as their insides liquefy from the high bacteria build-up (similar to how a dead mantid decomposes), not due to the translucent/semi-transparent nature of their exoskeleton) with signs of black vomit in their habitat that is thick and tar like, and have a very strong smell. Normal vomit does not have the odor, is not thick and tar like, and is a reddish brown in light; although, is sometimes commonly mistaken for the condition due to fear of the keeper.

In all likelihood your girl had a reaction to the malnourished cricket (explained in my previous post) and is vomiting it up. However, you did not mention if there is recent vomit inside the habitat or not. In which case she may simply be vomiting such small amounts at a time it is nearly impossible to discover.

If your have raw/real honey give her some to sooth her digestive tract, but she should be fine. I would just recommend ensuring the crickets have been eating well before using them as a feeder.


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## Mantidkid (Jul 30, 2017)

CosbyArt said:


> @Mantidkid A eye color change has nothing to do with feeders, water, etc they do it naturally at night (or in any low light as well). For the reason behind the natural change in color read this post. Of course though sometimes it isn't just that, and no longer seems to change color. See other related posts below (or search the forum for lots more)...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi the eyes have gone back to normal now and there is no vomit in the enclosure, I'm not sure if she ate the food I put in yesterday because I couldn't find it and she looks plump, I'll try her on a (well fed) cricket today and see how it goes I'm feeling quite reassured now thankyou very much


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## CosbyArt (Jul 30, 2017)

Mantidkid said:


> Hi the eyes have gone back to normal now and there is no vomit in the enclosure, I'm not sure if she ate the food I put in yesterday because I couldn't find it and she looks plump, I'll try her on a (well fed) cricket today and see how it goes I'm feeling quite reassured now thankyou very much


Great to hear about the eyes, and it is a bit unnerving the first time it is seen though.  Alright good, if there is no visible vomit then it isn't a concern (if there was a problem she would have vomit in many places that would be seen). Your welcome and hopefully your girl is ready for a much better feeder (now that the cricket has been properly fed and watered).


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