# Can mantids be vegetarians?



## brancsikia339 (Feb 9, 2012)

My friend wants a mantis, but he is not comfortable feeding live. Is there any way they can have a staple diet of vegetarian food like fruits or vegetables? I've seen videos but i don't think that that was a staple diet.


----------



## CoolMantid (Feb 9, 2012)

No. They will not get enough protien for ooth laying.  

Maybe mantids arent the best pet for him. Tell him about millipedes. They are vegetarians


----------



## brancsikia339 (Feb 9, 2012)

He's right here. I will let him write. This is him writing: what about if they hatch and the first thing that they eat is dead flies or fruit?????????


----------



## CoolMantid (Feb 9, 2012)

Plus. They might even refuse eating bannas, apples etc. and die from starvation


----------



## brancsikia339 (Feb 9, 2012)

Would they eat prekilled it i moved them with a tong?


----------



## CoolMantid (Feb 9, 2012)

Hertarem45 said:


> Plus. They might even refuse eating bannas, apples etc. and die from starvation


They hunt. They wont crawl up to food and start eating it. They are born natural hunters they go after live, moving prey.


----------



## CoolMantid (Feb 9, 2012)

brancsikia339 said:


> Would they eat prekilled it i moved them with a tong?


I've tried that. Its not the same


----------



## brancsikia339 (Feb 9, 2012)

so they absolutely have to eat LIVE not dead not dying or anything


----------



## CoolMantid (Feb 9, 2012)

They need LIVE prey.


----------



## brancsikia339 (Feb 9, 2012)

OK thanks


----------



## CoolMantid (Feb 9, 2012)

Stag Beetles, Caterpillars, Millipedes, and Isopods are the only insects/crustacean? That are vegetarians


----------



## Bryce08 (Feb 9, 2012)

they do enjoy some treats like bannanas, but they wont make it with a full diet of no living food, just wont work.


----------



## hibiscusmile (Feb 9, 2012)

If you are willing to kill and hand feed, then that will work, if you start missing feeding them, they wont survive unless u put in live food, they typically will not eat dead food that is not moving, but I have seen them do it, rare, but happens as they are smart enough not to starve to death if something is available.


----------



## Mantiskid (Feb 9, 2012)

You could (OK this is a little gruesome) impale the prey item with a toothpick and put it in front of the mantis...I do this with my Creos, and there hasn't been one thime where they haven't grabbed the insect.


----------



## rs4guy (Feb 9, 2012)

Hertarem45 said:


> I've tried that. Its not the same


Not totally true, I have sucessfully fed freeze-dried crickets soaked in water with no isses when I was low on food. Just stimuate them with movement. Still, live is the way to go, and I would NOT suggest owning one if you are not into live prey. They NEED it.


----------



## psyconiko (Feb 9, 2012)

They would eat dead preys if very hungry,I thought mantis would only be interested in moving preys but I was wrong.When starving they will "hunt" dead remains.I witnessed my mantids eating ooths or even dead old crix on the ground and none of these uncommon preys were moving.So it does not mean it is proper food but some mantis may survive by eating dead remains/fruits/honey/catfood/human blood?(I will try that last option soon)¨. :cowboy:


----------



## Psychobunny (Feb 9, 2012)

I have seen nymphs pick cricket legs up off the floor and eat them!!

Very rare though.


----------



## itzjustjeff (Feb 9, 2012)

Psychobunny said:


> I have seen nymphs pick cricket legs up off the floor and eat them!!
> 
> Very rare though.


My Creo gorges himself on Dubias and drops what he cant finish only to go down and pick it up for seconds sometimes.


----------



## Chivalry (Feb 9, 2012)

Okay, I'm terribly curious... I have the impression from "he is not comfortable feeding live" that this is a kind of moral objection to feeding live food to pets. What is the difference, on this basis, whether you are doing the killing or the mantis is? Or is it just the logistical difficulty of keeping live food around?

I disagree with people who are vegans and refuse to feed their cats (true carnivores, unlike dogs) food containing animal protein. If someone isn't comfortable giving a pet food items that it needs, perhaps another pet would be better. It's the reason I've never kept snakes, actually.


----------



## ismart (Feb 9, 2012)

Maybe your friend should invest in some phasmids? Mantids are predators. If your friend is squeamish on feeding them live prey, then a praying mantis is not for them.


----------



## gripen (Feb 9, 2012)

ismart said:


> Maybe your friend should invest in some phasmids? Mantids are predators. If your friend is squeamish on feeding them live prey, then a praying mantis is not for them.


good luck getting phasmids...


----------



## Rick (Feb 9, 2012)

No.


----------



## brancsikia339 (Feb 9, 2012)

Chivalry said:


> Okay, I'm terribly curious... I have the impression from "he is not comfortable feeding live" that this is a kind of moral objection to feeding live food to pets. What is the difference, on this basis, whether you are doing the killing or the mantis is? Or is it just the logistical difficulty of keeping live food around?
> 
> I disagree with people who are vegans and refuse to feed their cats (true carnivores, unlike dogs) food containing animal protein. If someone isn't comfortable giving a pet food items that it needs, perhaps another pet would be better. It's the reason I've never kept snakes, actually.


The thing is, he doesn't like the feel of killing something, even insects. He can watch me feed my mantids live, but he wouldn't do that. He wouldn't have difficulty keeping live around, he just feels like (even though the mantis is killing the insects) he's killing the insects.


----------



## brancsikia339 (Feb 9, 2012)

do you think if he hand fed the mantids grocery store meat, fish or poultry, they would eat? I have extra mantids for him so if he decides then I'll give him them


----------



## gripen (Feb 9, 2012)

brancsikia339 said:


> do you think if he hand fed the mantids grocery store meat, fish or poultry, they would eat? I have extra mantids for him so if he decides then I'll give him them


that is not sanitary.


----------



## brancsikia339 (Feb 9, 2012)

Well he won't steer to live, so I won't be giving him a mantis


----------



## CoolMantid (Feb 9, 2012)

Oh well. No new member


----------



## happy1892 (Feb 9, 2012)

brancsikia339 said:


> do you think if he hand fed the mantids grocery store meat, fish or poultry, they would eat? I have extra mantids for him so if he decides then I'll give him them


It would be very hard! It would take a lot of time! If you raise a mantis from an L1 nymph by hand feeding it I think the mantis would probably die because the mantis probably would not eat. If you got a mantis when it is older, like L5 or older the mantis would probably eat if you hand fed it. But it would be very hard and take a lot of time! I do not know if a mantis would do alright eating just meat that is not from an insect. How about if you feed them flies? There are many kinds of cockroaches that are pretty. Do you not like cockroaches? I think some or a lot of cockroaches need meat too. But I think cockroaches would do alright if you fed them grocery store meat. You can see some pretty cockroaches here.


----------



## brancsikia339 (Feb 9, 2012)

happy1892 said:


> It would be very hard! It would take a lot of time! If you raise a mantis from an L1 nymph by hand feeding it I think the mantis would probably die because the mantis probably would not eat. If you got a mantis when it is older, like L5 or older the mantis would probably eat if you hand fed it. But it would be very hard and take a lot of time! I do not know if a mantis would do alright eating just meat that is not from an insect. How about if you feed them flies? There are many kinds of cockroaches that are pretty. Do you not like cockroaches? I think some or a lot of cockroaches need meat too. But I think cockroaches would do alright if you fed them grocery store meat. You can see some pretty cockroaches here.


It's not me who is having the problem, it's my friend. No he is not comfortable feeding live, so he isn't going to get the mantis.


----------



## happy1892 (Feb 9, 2012)

brancsikia339 said:


> Well he won't steer to live, so I won't be giving him a mantis


What does that mean? Does that mean the mantis would not eat?


----------



## frogparty (Feb 9, 2012)

Mantis are killers plain and simple. Tell your friend to get a hamster. Or buck up and execute a few bugs


----------



## happy1892 (Feb 9, 2012)

frogparty said:


> Mantis are killers plain and simple. Tell your friend to get a hamster. Or buck up and execute a few bugs


Sometimes hamsters kill each others! It happened many times to me when I was young.


----------



## happy1892 (Feb 9, 2012)

Rabbits are smart.

.


----------



## CoolMantid (Feb 9, 2012)

Tell him to find a new pet. like a nice goldifish


----------



## frogparty (Feb 9, 2012)

You weren't giving them enough food or water. I used to breed gerbils for my pythons, and they'd eat each other when I forgot to fill their water bottle


----------



## happy1892 (Feb 9, 2012)

frogparty said:


> You weren't giving them enough food or water. I used to breed gerbils for my pythons, and they'd eat each other when I forgot to fill their water bottle


They had water most of the time. There was a lot of room. We did not give them any live foods. They ate each other!


----------



## frogparty (Feb 9, 2012)

Water MOST OF THE TIME isn't good enough. Cannibalism in rodents is often driven by lack of water


----------



## Krissim Klaw (Feb 9, 2012)

Rick said:


> No.


Lol straight to the point as always Rick.  It wouldn't be fair to the mantis in this situation. You can kill insects before serving them to the mantis, but since your friend is against killing period that won't work either.


----------



## meaganelise9 (Feb 9, 2012)

Yeah, that's like asking a cat or dog to go vegetarian. Sorry


----------



## patrickfraser (Feb 10, 2012)

CouId I be a vegetarian? Not if given a choice. I'm strictly meat and potatoes. I might eat a salad if I was starving, but it is not what I want. Praying mantis eat live insects. _Someone _needs to get over it if they want to have a chance at successfully rearing and breeding mantids. It just isn't feasible. Try as they might.......it's not plausible.


----------



## ismart (Feb 10, 2012)

gripen said:


> good luck getting phasmids...


This does not mean they have to be exotic phasmids. There are plenty of native US species that can be found. I figured phasmids would be the closest looking to a praying mantis if he likes the way they look? Mantis raptorial claws are not ment to hold celery sticks. Even though i'm sure they could. :lol:


----------



## gripen (Feb 10, 2012)

ismart said:


> This does not mean they have to be exotic phasmids. There are plenty of native US species that can be found. I figured phasmids would be the closest looking to a praying mantis if he likes the way they look? Mantis raptorial claws are not ment to hold celery sticks. Even thoght i'm sure they could. :lol:


oh understood.


----------



## brancsikia339 (Feb 10, 2012)

happy1892 said:


> What does that mean? Does that mean the mantis would not eat?


No. You're confused. He doesn't have a mantis yet. I have an extra blue flash. I'm keeping it for him. The mantis is eating fine with my live food. My friend, who wants to keep the mantis doesn't like feeding live.


----------



## brancsikia339 (Feb 10, 2012)

happy1892 said:


> Sometimes hamsters kill each others! It happened many times to me when I was young.


Yeah... He's had MANY experiences with THAT. Along with a full dish of food in the cage. Let's just say he's not gonna keep hamsters EVER again


----------



## brancsikia339 (Feb 10, 2012)

Hertarem45 said:


> Tell him to find a new pet. like a nice goldifish


He's had vicious experiences with those, too. I wouldn't recommend any house common pet to him because of bad experiences. He does have a crested gecko, but he feeds it repashy, which is a gecko food mix


----------



## brancsikia339 (Feb 10, 2012)

patrickfraser said:


> CouId I be a vegetarian? Not if given a choice. I'm strictly meat and potatoes. I might eat a salad if I was starving, but it is not what I want. Praying mantis eat live insects. _Someone _needs to get over it if they want to have a chance at successfully rearing and breeding mantids. It just isn't feasible. Try as they might.......it's not plausible.


OK he doesn't rear mantids. I have mantids and he thinks they're cool. I rear all sorts of species cuz I'm comfortable feeding live. He isn't. So last night I emailed him a list of possible pets.


----------



## happy1892 (Feb 10, 2012)

frogparty said:


> Water MOST OF THE TIME isn't good enough. Cannibalism in rodents is often driven by lack of water


I meant almost the whole time they were living.


----------



## LLCoolJew (Feb 10, 2012)

Hertarem45 said:


> They need LIVE prey.


I beg to differ, actually. I have a couple of physically disabled Idolos, and I squish/kill flies in some plastic wrap first and hand feed it to them with small tweezers. And when I am feeding mantids that are hanging out on a plant, I kill the fly first, too, so it doesn't fly away. Never had a problem with this method.

That said, it's a moot point. Dude's not getting a mantis. Thankfully.


----------



## hibiscusmile (Feb 10, 2012)

hey, it was something to talk about anyway.


----------



## agent A (Feb 10, 2012)

They do eat plant material technically

Not really in nature but they will eat banana in culture and also honey, derived from flowers  

Though they can't survive on it at all, they don't object to it as a treat B)


----------



## CoolMantid (Feb 10, 2012)

LLCoolJew said:


> I beg to differ, actually. I have a couple of physically disabled Idolos, and I squish/kill flies in some plastic wrap first and hand feed it to them with small tweezers. And when I am feeding mantids that are hanging out on a plant, I kill the fly first, too, so it doesn't fly away. Never had a problem with this method.
> 
> That said, it's a moot point. Dude's not getting a mantis. Thankfully.


Yes I do believe that but his friend doesnt want to squish/kill bugs. So he would not go for that. But on a nutrion/full diet up to adult. It would be hard to do that. Not impossible but hard, esspecially because the mantis will usually fight it. Or refuse to eat it.


----------



## happy1892 (Feb 11, 2012)

agent A said:


> They do eat plant material technically
> 
> Not really in nature but they will eat banana in culture and also honey, derived from flowers
> 
> Though they can't survive on it at all, they don't object to it as a treat B)


Some mantids eat bee pollen in nature.


----------



## patrickfraser (Feb 11, 2012)

Bee pollen is an "animal derivative", making it "non" vegetarian.


----------



## happy1892 (Feb 11, 2012)

What is "animal derivative"? It comes from a plant. Do bees change the pollen?


----------



## angelofdeathzz (Feb 11, 2012)

LLCoolJew said:


> I beg to differ, actually. I have a couple of physically disabled Idolos, and I squish/kill flies in some plastic wrap first and hand feed it to them with small tweezers. And when I am feeding mantids that are hanging out on a plant, I kill the fly first, too, so it doesn't fly away. Never had a problem with this method.
> 
> That said, it's a moot point. Dude's not getting a mantis. Thankfully.


You don't need to do all the fly smashing :hammer: just toss a few in the fridge and tweezer out the cold non moving fly by the wings or legs, they stay stunned for several minutes, way long enough to have there head eaten off, and then hand feed to Roy and company(no fly squishy mess), it should save some time?


----------



## angelofdeathzz (Feb 11, 2012)

brancsikia339 said:


> OK he doesn't rear mantids. I have mantids and he thinks they're cool. I rear all sorts of species cuz I'm comfortable feeding live. He isn't. So last night I emailed him a list of possible pets.


Yeah, if he can't watch a fly go down for the cause, he can't have mantis.

Maybe some "SHOCK THERAPY" is in order to snap him out of it? Try getting a piranha and feed it a gold fish while he's tied to a chair watching, that should do the trick!  inch: :lol: (just a joke, well kind of) :devil2:


----------



## patrickfraser (Feb 11, 2012)

happy1892 said:


> What is "animal derivative"? It comes from a plant. Do bees change the pollen?


You are correct. There is a distinct difference between bee pollen and flower pollen.


----------



## kenyawiggin (Mar 22, 2012)

patrickfraser said:


> Bee pollen is an "animal derivative", making it "non" vegetarian.


To be technical, bee pollen is not a vegan option, but is a vegetarian option. Vegetarians (myself included) tend to eat animal products if it is honey, eggs, milk, etc. I personally only get butter, milk, cheese, eggs, etc, from farms that pasture raise their animals and don't use the growth hormones and chemical additives. Vegetarians don't eat the flesh of animals. Vegans won't eat or use any product that has anything to do with harvesting any animal products.

On that note, I feed my dogs and cats and fish animal meat. Though it's generally fish based instead of chicken [mass produced, lower quality meat] or pork/beef [red meat just isn't a healthy daily option], they are still either obligate carnivores or omnivores with a need for meat based protein, and I will provide that for them.

And not to disrespect any life form, but, it's flies and crickets we're talking about. Raised and harvested for this specific purpose. Generally fed live, or pre-killed in a relatively quick and painless way. Live a little c;

I know my reply is late but it's the principle. Working at a pet store this was a constant battle with many customers. "Can't I just feed my cat lots of vegetables? Or like, tofu?" No, you may not, and if that is not okay with you, get a hamster.


----------



## happy1892 (May 28, 2012)

Rick said:


> No.


Rick! That is the perfect answer!



kenyawiggin said:


> To be technical, bee pollen is not a vegan option, but is a vegetarian option. Vegetarians (myself included) tend to eat animal products if it is honey, eggs, milk, etc. I personally only get butter, milk, cheese, eggs, etc, from farms that pasture raise their animals and don't use the growth hormones and chemical additives. Vegetarians don't eat the flesh of animals. Vegans won't eat or use any product that has anything to do with harvesting any animal products.
> 
> On that note, I feed my dogs and cats and fish animal meat. Though it's generally fish based instead of chicken [mass produced, lower quality meat] or pork/beef [red meat just isn't a healthy daily option], they are still either obligate carnivores or omnivores with a need for meat based protein, and I will provide that for them.
> 
> ...


"Vegans won't eat or use any product that has anything to do with harvesting any animal products." you just said they did LOL! "And not to disrespect any life form, but, it's flies and crickets we're talking about. Raised and harvested for this specific purpose. Generally fed live, or pre-killed in a relatively quick and painless way. Live a little c;" lots of mantids do not often bite the head off of the animal after grabbing it. I guess that Flies, Mantids, Roaches and certainly other insects do not feel pain but they know when they are getting damaged (pinched hard). People have fead mice to large mantids and mice do feel pain. I do not care about things like this. I do not seem to get sad when my friends die, strange? I get sad because of little things a lot. I hope you know this. Eggs and milk are good!

http://www.nytimes.c...n/21planck.html

I used to think that vegetarians were not supposed to eat anything from an animal. Vegans do not eat anything from an animal!

Why are you a vegetarian?


----------



## Mr.Mantid (May 28, 2012)

I lol'd when I read this post.


----------



## happy1892 (May 29, 2012)

Mr.Mantid said:


> I lol'd when I read this post.


Mine? Okay.


----------



## Mr.Mantid (May 29, 2012)

happy1892 said:


> Mine? Okay.


No no, @ #1 post.


----------



## mykey14 (May 30, 2012)

someone necroed this thread. &lt;_&lt;


----------



## Mvalenz (May 30, 2012)

This a long thread. Never the less I read it. I have fed my mantids dead bugs before by tipping the enclosure upside down and manipulating them to strike at the dead bug by making it look like it is crawling down the side of the container. I just did this the other day with my friends blue flash and a uncooperative waxworm. I would imagine if your friend can find a protein source maybe they can try this technique.


----------



## patrickfraser (May 30, 2012)

Tofu treats. :chef:


----------



## Mvalenz (May 30, 2012)

Sure tofu or chicken breast or cheese. Hmm, I wonder if we can make a super mantis with a high concentration protein diet. Wonder what the protein content of a cricket is so we can use it as a control. Maybe we can improve mortality rate with offspring. Who knows maybe they will start using primitive tools and cooking with fire.


----------



## Orin (May 31, 2012)

mykey14 said:


> someone necroed this thread. &lt;_&lt;


 That makes sense then as I imagine zombie mantids would eat vegetables instead of flesh.


----------

