# Male Mantis. Chinese? Stagmantis?



## sporeworld (Dec 9, 2010)

So, I continue to have difficulty differentiating between males of my local species - Chinese an Stagmantis (probably Californica).

Can anyone correctly identify this male, and if so HOW...? (And, yes, he is drowning that cricket - so aggressive!).


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## Ntsees (Dec 9, 2010)

Looks like Stagmomantis. If you're in Los Angeles, then it could be limbata.


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## Rick (Dec 9, 2010)

That is Stagmomantis. Could be one of a few species. He isn't drowning the cricket intentionally either. Should be easy to tell these apart from chinese. Chinese are much much larger.


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## LauraMG (Dec 9, 2010)

Rick said:


> That is Stagmomantis. Could be one of a few species.


+1! Chinese are much more hearty than that Stagmomantis genus. They are more stout and their wings have a green stripe down the outside edge, which is harder to see if you have a green one....


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## sporeworld (Dec 9, 2010)

Thanks!

You can see a green strip down the side of the wing, like all the Chinese. And I've heard the stout body thing. But isn't it bizarre that the Stagmantis MALES have the same stripe, and NOT the females...? Anyone else have a guess...?

(And, yeah, I know he wasn't ACTUALLY drowning the cricket on purpose, but it sure looked like it when he was doing it! I should have worded that differently. Sigh.)


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## LauraMG (Dec 9, 2010)

Sporeworld said:


> You can see a green strip down the side of the wing, like all the Chinese. And I've heard the stout body thing. But isn't it bizarre that the Stagmantis MALES have the same stripe, and NOT the females...?


It's a much more noticeable stripe on the Chinese.

http://mantidforum.n...=1

These are females, but it's pretty similar in the males too. It's a good comparison if you want to see the difference in the way they look too.


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## sporeworld (Dec 9, 2010)

Yeah, I've had hundreds (probably thousands at this point) of Chinese, and yeah - the females are way easy to pick out of a lineup. And the males looked similar, but scrawnier.

I'd love to find a comparrison of males from Stagmantis and Chinese. If they both have the green stripe, then I've been really lucky randomly breeding wild caught males with females.


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## LauraMG (Dec 9, 2010)

Oh! Never mind then!


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## hibiscusmile (Dec 9, 2010)

He is beautiful, no matter what he is. And everyone knows you should wash off your food before u eat it. :tt2:


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## sporeworld (Dec 9, 2010)

Nice, motherly advice.

And I took that pic ages ago (before I found this forum). Had to find out the hard way that crickets love to spontaneously drown themselves. Amazing. How, oh HOW does THAT help perpetuate the species...!?!

"Hey, Joe! How's the water...?"

"Oh, man - it's GREAT! You should try this..."

Splash, sputter, gulp, die.

(pause)

"Sweet! Make room for meeeeee.... Wooo!"

(Repeat to extinction).

Baffling.


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## Ntsees (Dec 10, 2010)

Sporeworld said:


> ...Had to find out the hard way that crickets love to spontaneously drown themselves. Amazing. How, oh HOW does THAT help perpetuate the species...!?!
> 
> "Hey, Joe! How's the water...?"
> 
> ...


By looking at it and depending on the amount of water there, the sides of that water holder are a little steep and could be too smooth for crickets to get a hold of and get out.


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## blind_angel16 (Aug 24, 2011)

Sporeworld said:


> Nice, motherly advice.
> 
> And I took that pic ages ago (before I found this forum). Had to find out the hard way that crickets love to spontaneously drown themselves. Amazing. How, oh HOW does THAT help perpetuate the species...!?!
> 
> ...


This is why between using a Gatorade cap or misting for a water source for my cricket stock container, I chose misting. :lol: Not that I've had any of them drown before, but just in case.


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## PhilinYuma (Aug 24, 2011)

Yeah, unless Yen says otherwise, this is Stagmomantis calfornica, so you were right all along, Sporeworld!

1) It is half the size of Tenodera sinensis, about 45-50mm.

2( The wings have that cross hatch look.

3) It can't be S. carolina because ithat species doesn't occur in the L.A. area.

4) It isn't robust enough to be S. limbata, and I've never seen one that exact color in life or pix.

Also, as Rick mentioned, it isn't trying to drown the cricket. It is teaching it how to swim.

Jacques Helfer's _How to Know the Grasshoppers, Crickets, Cockroaches and Their Allies, _Dover Books, is kinda old, but a useful and inexpensive guide to identifying U.S. mantids.

Are you finding a lot of these?


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## Idolofreak (Aug 24, 2011)

Laura G said:


> +1! Chinese are much more hearty than that Stagmomantis genus. They are more stout and their wings have a green stripe down the outside edge, which is harder to see if you have a green one....


EXACTLY what I was gonna say! My Chinese male is like 4.25" long, whereas the largest Stagmomantis male I've ever had was between 2.5" and 2.75" long.


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## ismart (Aug 24, 2011)

That male is 100% _Stagmomantis limbata_ I have kept both species.


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## yen_saw (Aug 24, 2011)

ismart said:


> That male is 100% _Stagmomantis limbata_ I have kept both species.


+1


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## PhilinYuma (Aug 24, 2011)

Well that was my second guess, Paul!  I've never kept Stagmomantis californica, so how do you tell the brown morphs apart, aside from the "chunky factor? S. californica would be much more slender? Anything else?


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## ismart (Aug 24, 2011)

The green stripe down the side of the male limbata's wings is non existent with californica males. Not to mention californica's have dark bands on the top side of there abdomens. I would say at a glance. californica males look more like carolina males.


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