# Rhombodera Basalis female sick



## crabbypatty (Mar 19, 2017)

I've run into my first problem with my basalis. My mated female has been vomiting and today I found her crawling at the bottom of her enclosure. I'm not sure what I did wrong, she's on the same diet as all my other mantids. I've been especially careful with her since she will be producing nymphs. I've been giving her honey and water but today she's refusing everything. I'm hoping for a miracle, but so far it doesn't look good. The thing that makes me more sad is that she has begun to look gravid. Not sure what to do at this point.


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## Zeppy44 (Mar 19, 2017)

Sorry to hear this. Have no idea here to help. Could it have been too much honey? Could the water have been bad? If you used a eye-dropper, was it contaminated?

Recently had first surprise death of female ghost I was getting ready to mate. Found belly up with only minute (very minute) raptor movement. 2 days later gone.  But no vomiting.


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## crabbypatty (Mar 19, 2017)

@Zeppy44 I'm giving her honey with water for energy, but I hadn't given her any before she got sick. I dilute it cuz I noticed that some mantids don't like undiluted honey, and she's one of them. I think maybe her enclosure didn't have enough air flow, but I have the same setup for all of them, and hers is the biggest. I did notice a few black spots on wings, not sure what that could mean though. I checked her a couple of minutes ago and she took water, and I've switched her to an all net cage for now. Sorry to hear about your ghost, I guess sometimes, no matter what you do, they get sick and die


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## Zeppy44 (Mar 19, 2017)

Aye. Sometimes it just happens. No matter what you do.


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## Zuzu (Mar 19, 2017)

Sounds like an isolated incident. Can mantises become sick from being gravid?


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## crabbypatty (Mar 19, 2017)

@Zuzu They can die if they refuse to lay. She only just mated though so I don't think that's it. I may never know. It could've been one bad feeder, who knows. She's got really bad eye rub, but I don't know if that can cause sickness. She's been constantly rubbing her eyes.


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## crabbypatty (Mar 19, 2017)

@Zeppy44 I know, I just feel terrible about it.


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## KevinsWither (Mar 19, 2017)

Hmmm in the future, I would recommend giving gravid mantises plants (houseplants) so that they can lay ooths on them.


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## crabbypatty (Mar 19, 2017)

@KevinsWither She's been throwing up, and she was only recently mated, I don't think that was the problem. I think maybe she ate something bad, but I'm not positive.


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## KevinsWither (Mar 19, 2017)

Did you feed her crickets? If you didn't, then did you feed your feeders any foods from a grocery store? Could of been that.


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## crabbypatty (Mar 19, 2017)

@KevinsWither no crickets, and I feed gutted mealworms/ superworms. I feed them oatmeal, potato, or apples. Maybe she just got a bad one.


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## KevinsWither (Mar 19, 2017)

As for mantids, I would feed roaches. Or flies and moths. Mealworms and superworms (crickets too) are really like fast food for mantids, good for a pinch but bad in general. This is due to the conditions they are kept in at pet stores.


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## crabbypatty (Mar 20, 2017)

@KevinsWither I try and feed flies when available. I can get roaches but I know myself and if one crawled on me I would freak. I tried getting waxworms to pupate but they just ended up dying. Flies are so short lived, I will check out bait and tackle shops close to me and see if they have maggots. I've wanted to see if I can get them to pupate, that would be amazing, plus cost effective. If I can do that then for sure that'd be my primary feeder. Thanks for your input, I'll have to try that now.


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## Sarah K (Mar 20, 2017)

I am so sorry to hear about your mantis, did she pull through? I have had mantises vomit like that before, and after a day or so they seem fine. Iam hoping this is how it goes for you. **Fingers Crossed***


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## crabbypatty (Mar 20, 2017)

@Sarah K Unfortunately I came home and found her twitching and unable to hang. Not sure what happened to her, but she kept clawing at her eye spots. Perhaps it was a combination of several things. I had to put her in the freezer, it was obvious that she was in pain at that point. ?


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## Zuzu (Mar 20, 2017)

I'm sorry


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## crabbypatty (Mar 20, 2017)

@Zuzu thank you, it never gets easier.


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## Mantis_M (Mar 20, 2017)

crabbypatty said:


> @Zuzu thank you, it never gets easier.


I am sorry that happened to you . She could have had internal parasites, a bug illness, or just got bad luck of the draw with genetics. I believe bugs have random illnesses aswell.

Hopefully you feel better soon, and remember the good memories because that's what the hobbies about  

Have a blessed week, pal

~Michael


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## Sarah K (Mar 20, 2017)

I am so sorry for your loss.


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## crabbypatty (Mar 20, 2017)

@Mantis_M @Sarah K thanks guys, I appreciate your kind words.


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## izbiggs (Mar 20, 2017)

@crabbypatty I'm so sorry for your loss   you did everything you could, and I'm sure she was very happy in your care.


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## crabbypatty (Mar 20, 2017)

@izbiggs thank you.


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## Kermit (Mar 21, 2017)

@crabbypatty the only thing not mentioned in this thread is MOLD!

Poor ventilation, water and moderate to low heat and mold can show up fast.

Hard to see but definitely leathal.

Sorry for your lose CP! I've read how fond you were of these ?


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## crabbypatty (Mar 21, 2017)

@Kermit Hmm, perhaps it was. I was going to check her body later for signs of mold. I had her in a ten gallon aquarium turned on its side with no lid, misting once a day, maybe she needed a net cage or plastic cage to begin with. Thank you, I'll investigate and adjust for the future. Yes I love my Rhombodera! At least I have my males to keep me company for now. Thanks ?


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## KevinsWither (Mar 21, 2017)

Kermit said:


> @crabbypatty the only thing not mentioned in this thread is MOLD!
> 
> Poor ventilation, water and moderate to low heat and mold can show up fast.
> 
> ...


Doesn't heat increase mold?


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## Kermit (Mar 21, 2017)

If done properly heat leads to evaporation before mold can start.


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## crabbypatty (Mar 21, 2017)

@Kermit thanks, I appreciate all the feedback, I hope to be a successful breeder and all the advice helps. ?


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## Kermit (Mar 21, 2017)

@crabbypatty I have been reading a lot of your posts and it looks like you're well on your way!


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## crabbypatty (Mar 21, 2017)

Kermit said:


> @crabbypatty I have been reading a lot of your posts and it looks like you're well on your way!


Thank you! ❤


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## spotsy99 (Mar 24, 2017)

I am so sorry for your loss. I know you loved her and was so excited about mating her.


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## crabbypatty (Mar 24, 2017)

@spotsy99 thank you, hopefully I succeed next time.


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## spotsy99 (Mar 25, 2017)

I very much hope so.


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## Ranitomeya (Mar 25, 2017)

Decreased temperatures can influence the effectiveness of their limited immune response and make them more susceptible to infection. Low ventilation is a possible culprit. With low ventilation, atmospheric spore loads can build up within an enclosure and overwhelm their immune response. The black spots are the result of their immune response taking action. Insects have a simple way of dealing with infections--cells in their blood clot around the invaders and can be seen as black spots. What you are describing sounds a lot like a bacterial infection.

Keep in mind that mealworms and superworms literally eat anything they can get nutrition from--including the dead, rotting bodies of their own kind--this is something crickets also do and it's one of the reasons they are also very poor prey if their dead are not constantly being removed. Mantises really do not do well if provided with bacteria-filled prey. Gutting is not very effective since the gut will tear as you try to remove it, releasing its contents into the body of the prey. It's connected to the exoskeleton at the anus and the mouth and there's no way to remove it without tearing and flooding the internal cavity of an insect unless you're cutting the head and the end of the abdomen off without tearing the gut and then cutting from one end to the other and lifting the intact gut out.


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## crabbypatty (Mar 25, 2017)

@Ranitomeya yeah I'm trying to keep my worms very clean, removing any dead, and replacing media often. I did buy some bb flies though, and I'll be getting dubia tomorrow. I threw away my remaining feeders and just started with some new ones just in case.


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## Sticky (Mar 25, 2017)

You mentioned apples but not if they were organic. I give my feeders organic everything. Apples really absorb poisons and that might have contributed to her illness.

If you can find some in someone's property and they dont spray anything, your feeders would be much better for your mantids. Doesn't mean that your pets will never get sick, but it could make a difference. Apple trees are everywhere here in Maine.

Try growing other things, greens, your own potatoes in pots. Those are fun!


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## crabbypatty (Mar 25, 2017)

@Sticky thanks for the suggestion, I'll take that into account as well ?


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