# can u help me identify the sex of 9 orchid mantids



## macro junkie (Apr 25, 2008)

1/9 has just shed to 3rd instar..can u help me identify a few of them so i can house the males in a cooler room.il go take pic of #1 which shed to 3rd instar today.


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## Rick (Apr 25, 2008)

Sure but where are the pics? You really don't have to seperate the males into a cooler area. Yes, they will mature faster but live long enough to mate with your females. I've hever encountered a problem with this.


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## mrblue (Apr 25, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> 1/9 has just shed to 3rd instar..can u help me identify a few of them so i can house the males in a cooler room.il go take pic of #1 which shed to 3rd instar today.


with your macro lens they should be fairly easy to identify. try to get a shot of the underside of the tip of the abdomen, the last few segments at the tip.


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## tier (Apr 25, 2008)

Hi

There is this beautiful chinise page mantida posted once. I think mantida can help you with this excellent page. Otherwise I will search it for you.

regards


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## acerbity (Apr 25, 2008)

I've got it bookmarked

here

also here


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## mrblue (Apr 25, 2008)

maybe tier meant this?:

http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/orchid-mantis/a...p;l=f&amp;fid=6

also same method here:

http://mantisphotos.com/sexinghymenopus.htm

EDIT: beat me to it!


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## macro junkie (Apr 25, 2008)

Rick said:


> Sure but where are the pics? You really don't have to seperate the males into a cooler area. Yes, they will mature faster but live long enough to mate with your females. I've hever encountered a problem with this.


i was told if u leave both males and females in same room the male will die before the female is adult.il get the pics now just uploading.


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## mrblue (Apr 25, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> i was told if u leave both males and females in same room the male will die before the female is adult.il get the pics now just uploading.


i'm not sure that the situation is quite that critical, but then i have never bred this species. bear in mind temperature is not the only way to change growth rate. if youre dead set on having them grow at different speeds then you could just alter the amount of food you offer. tbis would work just as well i reckon.


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## tier (Apr 25, 2008)

The situation is as critical. Haven't you seen Marius Pohl's and my pictures??? The male is adult several larval stages before the female. I think 3 or 4??? You should keep the males at 22-24°C daytime and feed as less as you can. Just make sure they stay alive, not more!

And keep the females at 26-28°C daytime. And overfeed her any time!

I would light them 12 hours, as they are located directely at the Äuqutor and have 12h lights per day at natural circumstances.

Feed only fliey and feed the flies with honey.

Good luck MJ

edit:

I think again Rick is rhight, too: If you are able to offer a lot of food, maybe the female will eat much more food at the same time the male will eat less food. That means they will become adult maybe at the same time more or less. But you are on the secured side if you slow down the males. Remember: Summer is comming and adult males kept at 30°C+ will day quickly.

Regards,


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## tier (Apr 25, 2008)




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## Malnra (Apr 25, 2008)

tier said:


> The situation is as critical. Haven't you seen Marius Pohl's and my pictures??? The male is adult several larval stages before the female. I think 3 or 4??? You should keep the males at 22-24°C daytime and feed as less as you can. Just make sure they stay alive, not more!And keep the females at 26-28°C daytime. And overfeed her any time!
> 
> I would light them 12 hours, as they are located directely at the Äuqutor and have 12h lights per day at natural circumstances.
> 
> ...


if it is so critical, how do they breed in the wild ? seems to me nature works so why would one have to alter temps and food intake ?


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## macro junkie (Apr 25, 2008)

Heres #1

it shed to 3rd instar today before all the rest.sorry for the crappy pics..hopfully u can tell from the pics..if not i can get more.


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## macro junkie (Apr 25, 2008)

tier said:


>


show off


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## mrblue (Apr 25, 2008)

first one looks male to me.


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## tier (Apr 25, 2008)

You do not really think that nature allowes a male and a female *out of the same ootheca *to mate?!?! that's why they have different sizes: Mechanism agains imbreeding. Sorry, no good question -_-

Yes, show off, you got me  

&lt;_&lt;


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## Rob Byatt (Apr 25, 2008)

Geoff_K said:


> if it is so critical, how do they breed in the wild ? seems to me nature works so why would one have to alter temps and food intake ?


This suggests that all ootheca hatch at the same time in the wild, which is obviously daft  

One point to make here, how many people here can actually say that they are qualified to comment on the breeding of this species, ie. they have bred it for successive generations ?

Cool the males down.

That is a male in the picture - sexing by segments is not necessary at this age, just compare leg lobes.


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## mrblue (Apr 25, 2008)

EDIT:


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## macro junkie (Apr 25, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


> This suggests that all ootheca hatch at the same time in the wild, which is obviously daft  One point to make here, how many people here can actually say that they are qualified to comment on the breeding of this species, ie. they have bred it for successive generations ?
> 
> Cool the males down.
> 
> That is a male in the picture - sexing by segments is not necessary at this age, just compare leg lobes.


1 down 8 to go..  ..what is best temp to cool the males at?


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## Malnra (Apr 25, 2008)

is it safe to say that we dont have to worry about dropping an ooth in a place where that species does not exist because they cant mate with each other ? no ecosystem damage after the first generation ?

Has anyone here mated mantis out of the same ooth without using cooling/slow feeding techniques ?


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## Rick (Apr 25, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> i was told if u leave both males and females in same room the male will die before the female is adult.il get the pics now just uploading.


No they won't.


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## tier (Apr 25, 2008)

Here they die. I have only 4 males for my females now - 6 are already dead. And I cooled them down!!!

However, it is as critical. That is the only reason why Hymenopus is so difficult. To raise them up is as easy as other easy mantids. You can keep them as a beginner, but even most pros have difficulties to make sure to have a fitting male for the females.

However, that is the only problem in this species and it is only a bigger problem with Theopropus elegans, like Christian said once.

As far as I know, all breeders are cooling down the males. Why not, Rick? Isn't it much safer???

regrds,

tier


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## OGIGA (Apr 25, 2008)

I think my strategy would be to divide all the hatchlings into 2 groups from birth. One group is fast growth and the other is slow growth. When I figure out which are male and which are female, I can transfer them to the appropriate group.

Another strategy would be to hatch one ootheca and cross your fingers that you'll get another ootheca a month down the road.

I don't know who the successful orchid breeders are but I know that breeders like Yen had orchids of all ages. I think that's the only way to "solve" the problem.

Rick, just wondering, are you still keeping orchids? How long have you kept orchids?


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## macro junkie (Apr 26, 2008)

im going to cool down the males..im not going to risk it..its took me 8 months to get these 9 nymphs and i dont want to get them to adult and the males are allready dead..

rick says they wont..rob says they will..a little confusing. :huh:


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## OGIGA (Apr 26, 2008)

You can cool half the males, I guess...

I don't remember where I read this, but someone said that cooling the male and giving them less food may render them infertile. Yeah, I don't know where I read that, could be on this forum or on someone else's website.


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## Rob Byatt (Apr 26, 2008)

Rick said:


> No they won't.


Maybe they won't, maybe they will, but the fact remains that male _H. coronatus_ do mature more quickly than females. I see no sense in leaving it to chance.


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## macro junkie (Apr 26, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


> Maybe they won't, maybe they will, but the fact remains that male _H. coronatus_ do mature more quickly than females. I see no sense in leaving it to chance.


me to..when its taken 8 months to get 10 nymphs im not willing to risk it.1 died from 2nd - 3rd shed so i have 9 now.

what temps do i keep the males at?


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## bugzilla (Apr 26, 2008)

You could always use the fail safe method I used and buy 2 sexed pairs at different ages  . It'll set you back £120 though h34r:


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## macro junkie (Apr 26, 2008)

bugzilla said:


> You could always use the fail safe method I used and buy 2 sexed pairs at different ages  . It'll set you back £120 though h34r:


lmao..no thanks. :lol:  120£..lol.there having a laugh. :lol:  bloody rip off..


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## bugzilla (Apr 26, 2008)

Hehe my overdrft is bigger than my sense :lol: :lol: :lol: 

I'd pay it again though, they're stunning but atm I'm waiting to see how these 2 pairs do. If they breed I won't need to buy any in for a while


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## macro junkie (Apr 26, 2008)

bugzilla said:


> Hehe my overdrft is bigger than my sense :lol: :lol: :lol: I'd pay it again though, they're stunning but atm I'm waiting to see how these 2 pairs do. If they breed I won't need to buy any in for a while


if u have a adult pair let me know..il send u my adult female..im not using it..i cant find a male.


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## asdsdf (Apr 26, 2008)

bugzilla said:


> You could always use the fail safe method I used and buy 2 sexed pairs at different ages  . It'll set you back £120 though h34r:


That's a lot of money. &gt;.&lt; For 4 mantises. You must really like them.


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## bugzilla (Apr 27, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> if u have a adult pair let me know..il send u my adult female..im not using it..i cant find a male.


S

Thanks for the offer, they're still maturing atm. My oldest female shed to sub-adult (I think) 3 days ago :huh:and the male is due to shed in the next few days, possibly to adult but not sure :huh:


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## macro junkie (Apr 27, 2008)

asdsdf said:


> That's a lot of money. &gt;.&lt; For 4 mantises. You must really like them.


hes probably rich..got more money than sense :lol:


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## bugzilla (Apr 27, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> hes probably rich..got more money than sense :lol:


I wish, I've just got a nice bank manager  



bugzilla said:


> Hehe my overdrft is bigger than my sense :lol: :lol: :lol:


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