# bee culturing advise



## AxolotlsAreCoolToo (Jan 23, 2013)

hello my local farm has some bee box's that they no longer use and my friends and I wanted to get into bee culturing for the purpose of making our own fresh honey and bees wax to sell at the farm stand. was wondering if anyone on the forum has any experence with this line of work and could give me helpful strategies, techniques, and tools. where do i get the bees? what kind of location should i keep them and when is an appropriate time to harvest? any advise will be appreciated thank you.


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 23, 2013)

Check your local extension agent as they can direct you to some local bee people, who gather bees that are in homes and the owners want them removed without hurting the bees, these are then given free to someone wanting to culture them. Also I believe Rick has experience with them and he will prob answer later when he has time.


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## agent A (Jan 23, 2013)

My latin teacher is a beekeeper

Also u can use bees as feeders


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## patrickfraser (Jan 23, 2013)

I guess it's ok to feed bees if you raise them yourself? I think Rick will probably disagree. :no:


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## Mvalenz (Jan 23, 2013)

I've thought about bee keeping too. What is an extension agent?


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## aNisip (Jan 23, 2013)

I was going to keep bees but too busy with school and such. I did a lot of research and reading on how to keep bees and raise them...if you want to learn, you'll have to do your research and such. It requires A LOT of info gathering either through books or internet websites. You have to kno your stuff, and to gather honey from the colony, you'll need more and diff supplies. It will cost a bit of $ at first, but once you get your beebox and all the diff wax or plastic hive slates and honey catchers ...etc then they will basically take care of themselves but really think if you are sure you want to do this, a lot of time and energy...just google how to start beekeeping or beekeeping 101 to start. And check with local beekeepers in your area (if there are any) and you usually have to order queens workers, or you could get those from other beekpers locally too (if avialable)

All the best,

Andrew


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## jamurfjr (Jan 23, 2013)

I signed up to attend a beginner's class put on by a local beekeper's association next month. Besides covering procedure, the class grants the students easy access to bees and supplies. At the end of the 8 session class, student receive their bees. With any luck, there is a group in your area that does the same.


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## Montana (Jan 24, 2013)

Just thought it'd be pertinent to post this here....

...

Bees are awesome. :detective:


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## Rick (Jan 24, 2013)

I keep bees.

With that being said I highly suggest you find a good bee keeping forum and start reading. I like this one but they cater more towards top bar hives. They do have a lang section though: http://www.biobees.com/forum/ Ask them what are the best books for a beginner. You will want to browse the bee forums and read a few of the best books on the subject.

This is not something you just want to jump right into by getting a hive. There is quite a bit to know. I started with top bar hives and while I like many things about them I feel next time I need to get some lang hives.

Hive location depends on many factors. During your research you will learn more about that. Bees can be bought as packages from suppliers. I recommend you look at your states cooperative extension website. Find out if there is a local/state chapter of a beekeeping organization you can get involved in. Most locales have them. Also research local laws and ordinances. For example, I live in town and have to have a permit to keep bees. It's very easy and free, but worth noting.


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## Termite48 (Jan 24, 2013)

Where I used to live in the Central Coastal area of CA there was a real demand for bee hives to be placed in orchards of all kinds. Not only is this a free source of blossoms for the bees, but actually they paid the bee keeper to do it. The by product of this needed pollination service, was the honey, of course, and there is a real demand for that. I understand that in the US, there is only about 60 or so percent of the honey we need, produced domestically. That means that countries like China and India are getting illegal honey into the US. Whatever you can do to increase the cuilturing of bees is something that deserves encouragement and reward. Good luck, take Rick's advise. There is a lot to learn first before you acquire bees.


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## Bug Trader (Jan 24, 2013)

Its a bit more work than you probably think. And its not cheap to get started. There is always a risk of pathogens spreading through your hive and killing it so make sure your select the right location to keep them.


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 24, 2013)

extension agent is someone who does work in argriculture and such free usually to the public, try googling "county extension agent" for Ct.


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## Rick (Jan 25, 2013)

Bug Trader said:


> Its a bit more work than you probably think. And its not cheap to get started. There is always a risk of pathogens spreading through your hive and killing it so make sure your select the right location to keep them.


True, but much more to that than just hive location. I prefer to not use any meds in my hives and so far I have not had a problem. A strong hive can for the most part take care of the issue. For example, I have small hive beetles in my hives. The bees keep them in check since my hives have proven to be strong and resilient.

And it is not cheap to get started. But if he can get free hives that is a big savings right there. But then again there are many other supplies needed. Also check out brushy mountain bee supply. I get most of my stuff from there but my bees came from a local guy though some places will ship them.


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## Bug Trader (Jan 25, 2013)

Rick said:


> True, but much more to that than just hive location. I prefer to not use any meds in my hives and so far I have not had a problem. A strong hive can for the most part take care of the issue. For example, I have small hive beetles in my hives. The bees keep them in check since my hives have proven to be strong and resilient.
> 
> And it is not cheap to get started. But if he can get free hives that is a big savings right there. But then again there are many other supplies needed. Also check out brushy mountain bee supply. I get most of my stuff from there but my bees came from a local guy though some places will ship them.


I only suggested the location scouting due to the amount or pesticides and fertilizers used these days. Ours were kept on a blueberry farm in South GA just shouth of the swamplands so we had no issues there. Keeping them under a shady location or under a tree can cause leaves and depree to collect on them even mold to spread through the boxes as well as rot them, pests almost always end up with them but watch out for ant issues we also never pushed meds on the hives I believe in weathering them for all pathogens and such while a small hive it will keep them stronger as they grow and bees to control most of their own issues cullling off those that come in sick, injured or from another hive most of the time.

Id also be a bit investigative when aquiring your hives, try and get them wild or from a place that has a bit of knowledge on keeping genetically strong populations. Some keepers are known for having to replace their hives frequently for numerous reasons I wouldnt go buying from them.


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## AxolotlsAreCoolToo (Jan 25, 2013)

thanks for the input i will defiantly look at all the sources before making any commitments


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 25, 2013)

lots of good advice here, including mine................... tee hee, had to add that!


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## ScienceGirl (Feb 1, 2013)

Are you buying a nucleus (nuc) hive (A mini-scale hive, you transfer frames from it to a real hive), packaged bees (what it sounds like - a screened box filled only with bees), or a full-sized hive?

If you are doing the nucleus or packaged bees, your first year will not turn any profit. Wax is very energy consuming for the bees (8 lbs of honey eaten = 1 lb beeswax). They will also need their honey that they produce for surviving the winter. Year 2, they will already have their beeswax for storing nectar and pollen and honey stores.

I HIGHLY recommend:

*The Beekeeper's Hanbook Fourth Edition*

*By: Diana Sammataro and Alphonse Avitable*

This book tell you everything you need, and then some. It is the most scientific book that I have found, with diagrams to help you and clear, easy instructions. It can be found on Amazon.com and other bookstores.


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## ScienceGirl (Feb 1, 2013)

If you are doing honey extraction, go with the Langstroth Hive.

Topbar hives do not have comb that is strong enough to withstand a honey extractor - you would have to crush the comb and strain the honey through a cheesecloth/strainer. May be more time consuming if you have a bigger quantity of hives than with using an extractor.

Also, if you are planning on selling the honey for human consumption, you will need some sort of food license.

Good luck, and be sure to check out that book!  

Oh, and try to find a "bee mentor" close to where you live who you can ask questions and work with.

(I'm getting bees in the spring. I have worked with a beekeeper and have read TONS of beekeeping books.)


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## ScienceGirl (Feb 1, 2013)

But really, the most important thing you can do is read (or at least skim) *The Beekeeper's Handbook*.

If you have time, it would also be good for you to look through some honeybee keeping books to decide what would work well for you.

There are basically three kinds of books:


Commerical beekeeping (bigscale beekeepers with many acres/big scale honey producers/ queen producers/ big scale pollinators that travel with the inseason blooms)
Beginner (how to set up, obtain bees, etc)
Standard book, covers but isn't all about cus a ton on a beginners course. This would be what you would use once you get started.
*The Beekeeper's Handbook* tell's you:


location
types of honey to produce
pollination
how to work w/ the neighbors  
where to get bees
trouble shooting
bee diseases
How to test for bee diseases
Breeds of bees (Yes, there are. You can't just ask for 'Honey Bees'. It would be the same as asking for a 'Mantis'.  ) I, personally, would advise getting *Italians* or *(New World) Carniolans. *See if you can work with different beekeepers in your area that keep different breeds of bees. Make sure that you actually get your hands down in there.
And SO, SO, SO much more
There are helpful hints and there is so much useful information.

Basically, if I was to name one tool you need, it would be this book. It will help you and make everything simple.


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## robo mantis (Feb 2, 2013)

I keep every sort of bee (honey bee, bumble bee and solitary) haha so any questions, send me a pm and i'll be glad to help!


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## Rick (Feb 3, 2013)

ScienceGirl said:


> If you are doing honey extraction, go with the Langstroth Hive.
> 
> Topbar hives do not have comb that is strong enough to withstand a honey extractor - you would have to crush the comb and strain the honey through a cheesecloth. A VERY time consuming process.
> 
> ...


Extracting honey from a top bar is not a time consuming process. I do the crush strain method and strain it through kitchen strainers. I never saw a need for cheesecloth. I can do a whole seasons batch in under an hour.


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## ScienceGirl (Feb 3, 2013)

Rick said:


> Extracting honey from a top bar is not a time consuming process. I do the crush strain method and strain it through kitchen strainers. I never saw a need for cheesecloth. I can do a whole seasons batch in under an hour.


Edited.  

It really depends on your preference.

Another big difference between Langstroth and Top-Bar hives:


On Langstroth's you can use Queen Excluders to keep the queen from going into and laying eggs in the honey supers. Some beekeepers use this technique for Langstroth, others say just take off the exluder once the honey super is full - they say that Queens rarely will cross a full super. (You can ask Rick if he's able to keep larva out of the comb he's extracting with his TopBar hives.)
With Langstroth you can add and remove supers as needed to give more/less room to the colony and prevent swarming.
You can make your own Top-Bar hives and Langstroth hives. If you want to order more parts for Langstroth and not make everything yourself, you'll have to match the sizes of normal hive parts that you'd order. Honeybees have a bee space of about 1 cm. If there are gaps bigger than that, they fill it with burr comb. If there are gaps smaller than that, they fill it with propolis.
Rick - Have you ever had problems with larva in the comb you're extracting?

How many Top-Bars do you keep?


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## ScienceGirl (Feb 3, 2013)

It sounds like you would be doing Langstroth hives, though, by the sound of the "box's" at your local farm.


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## Rick (Feb 4, 2013)

I've never had brood in the honey comb. There are advantages to both styles. I recommend the original poster research both and decide then. But there is a reason I am going away from top bars. Langs are the standard so most people will lean that way out of tradition.


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## ScienceGirl (Mar 14, 2013)

Rick said:


> I've never had brood in the honey comb. There are advantages to both styles. I recommend the original poster research both and decide then. But there is a reason I am going away from top bars. Langs are the standard so most people will lean that way out of tradition.


I'm doing Langstroths for two reasons:


they seem easier to me.
a beekeeper is giving them to me for free!
The whole free thing is a no-brainer, what with a whole setup costing around $300+ (not including bees, which are around $100+).

Did you build your own top bars?


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## jamurfjr (Mar 16, 2013)

I'm also going with Langstroth hives. That is what I'm being taught. A top-bar hive will come later though.

Over the last few days, I've been constructing three unassembled hives, an array of supers, and numerous frames. A nail gun would speed the process, but instead of my black and blue thumb, I'd probably have a thumb with a hole in it. In any case, frame assembly can grow quite tedious—and painful.


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## jamurfjr (Mar 16, 2013)

Oh, and not to tout one company's products over another, but I ordered from Mann Lake Ltd, and my 150lb order shipped free! Most orders over $100 are eligible for free shipping.


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## ScienceGirl (Mar 19, 2013)

jamurfjr said:


> Oh, and not to tout one company's products over another, but I ordered from Mann Lake Ltd, and my 150lb order shipped free! Most orders over $100 are eligible for free shipping.


Oh my, that is a lot of stuff!  What all did you get?

What breed of bees are you going to be doing?

I'm getting most everything from my super nice beekeeper connection. Everything except for gloves... He uses those thin, plastic, disposable gloves that doctors wear, but I'm wanting some nice, thick ones, just while I'm getting more into my comfort zone. I used the blue plastic ones when working with him and I didn't get stung once, but still, when the bees are mine and at my house, it's going to be my hands down into the hives. I want to just use thick gloves as a sort of training wheel for comfort. Then I'll "graduate" to plastic, or no gloves at all!


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## jamurfjr (Mar 19, 2013)

I pretty much acquired everything to get started: 3 unassembled hives, four additional supers, frames and foundation(included), veil, smoker, canvas gloves(cheap $7-$8), hive tool, etc.. Everything except the bees. They are coming from a group buy through the association. I'm told they'll be Italian.

Many of the experienced beekeepers use no gloves at all. Claim that dexterity is adversely effected. I intend to start with gloves and maybe go gloveless if and when my confidence increases.


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## Rick (Mar 19, 2013)

jamurfjr said:


> I pretty much acquired everything to get started: 3 unassembled hives, four additional supers, frames and foundation(included), veil, smoker, canvas gloves(cheap $7-$8), hive tool, etc.. Everything except the bees. They are coming from a group buy through the association. I'm told they'll be Italian.
> 
> Many of the experienced beekeepers use no gloves at all. Claim that dexterity is adversely effected. I intend to start with gloves and maybe go gloveless if and when my confidence increases.


Yep and to this day I cannot understand how they go gloveless. I have sheepskin bee keepers gloves from Brushy Mountain and they can and will sting through them.


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## ScienceGirl (Mar 20, 2013)

jamurfjr said:


> I pretty much acquired everything to get started: 3 unassembled hives, four additional supers, frames and foundation(included), veil, smoker, canvas gloves(cheap $7-$8), hive tool, etc.. Everything except the bees. They are coming from a group buy through the association. I'm told they'll be Italian.
> 
> Many of the experienced beekeepers use no gloves at all. Claim that dexterity is adversely effected. I intend to start with gloves and maybe go gloveless if and when my confidence increases.





Rick said:


> Yep and to this day I cannot understand how they go gloveless. I have sheepskin bee keepers gloves from Brushy Mountain and they can and will sting through them.


Well, the idea is that better dexterity causes less bee deaths causing less alert pheromones to be ("Bee"  ) released. Using plastic doctor gloves is even better, though, because it keeps propolis, honey, and other sticky stuff off of your fingers.

What I can't understand is why some people, calling themselves "experts" go beekeeping mass number of hives... WITHOUT a VEIL!!!! Agh!!!! This seems unresponsible to me. I understand if you want to flaunt your "bee-whispering" skills, and take a risk, but really, there are other ways! Getting stung on your face is really painful, and bees naturally want to explore dark crevices. Personally, I don't think I'd be a fan of letting bees explore my ear and nose holes....


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## Rick (Mar 21, 2013)

ScienceGirl said:


> Well, the idea is that better dexterity causes less bee deaths causing less alert pheromones to be ("Bee"  ) released. Using plastic doctor gloves is even better, though, because it keeps propolis, honey, and other sticky stuff off of your fingers.
> 
> What I can't understand is why some people, calling themselves "experts" go beekeeping mass number of hives... WITHOUT a VEIL!!!! Agh!!!! This seems unresponsible to me. I understand if you want to flaunt your "bee-whispering" skills, and take a risk, but really, there are other ways! Getting stung on your face is really painful, and bees naturally want to explore dark crevices. Personally, I don't think I'd be a fan of letting bees explore my ear and nose holes....


Oh I understand why they do it and I have killed my fair share of bees just working the hive. But at times my bees are so aggressive I won't even consider not wearing gloves. It amazes me it can even be done. And no veil? Yeah right. I had two bees get into my veil last year and I gotta tell you I was really worried there for a bit. I have hives in my yard and one time a flying bee hit me in the face and got caught up under my sunglasses and stung me right under the eye!


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## jamurfjr (Mar 21, 2013)

Rick said:


> Oh I understand why they do it and I have killed my fair share of bees just working the hive. But at times my bees are so aggressive I won't even consider not wearing gloves. It amazes me it can even be done. And no veil? Yeah right. I had two bees get into my veil last year and I gotta tell you I was really worried there for a bit. I have hives in my yard and one time a flying bee hit me in the face and got caught up under my sunglasses and stung me right under the eye!


Ouch!

As an ACO, in an attempt to retrieve a litter of kittens birthed in old, broken-down car, I opened the door and disturbed a wasp nest. I got stung multple times on the face and on my arms. It left a lasting impression.


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## ScienceGirl (Mar 21, 2013)

Rick said:


> Oh I understand why they do it and I have killed my fair share of bees just working the hive. But at times my bees are so aggressive I won't even consider not wearing gloves. It amazes me it can even be done. And no veil? Yeah right. I had two bees get into my veil last year and I gotta tell you I was really worried there for a bit. I have hives in my yard and one time a flying bee hit me in the face and got caught up under my sunglasses and stung me right under the eye!


Yes, honey season and nectar dearths are not good times to be w/o protection.

Speaking of bees... UPDATE time!!!  I'll be picking my first colony up with equiptment the Wednesday of next week. They will be Carniolans. I'll pick up a second nucleus later on, and they'll be Italians. Very excited.

And now, for a little bee humor that I saw in a book!  

"My wife always wanted daughters.... Just not thousands and thousands of them." (In case you don't get it, the person is referring to how they bought a honey bee hive. All the workers bees are girls.  )


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## Rick (Mar 22, 2013)

ScienceGirl said:


> Yes, honey season and nectar dearths are not good times to be w/o protection.
> 
> Speaking of bees... UPDATE time!!!  I'll be picking my first colony up with equiptment the Wednesday of next week. They will be Carniolans. I'll pick up a second nucleus later on, and they'll be Italians. Very excited.
> 
> ...


lol. Here is one I like. Hopefully the "bad" word doesn't offend anyone. For the non bee people the bee pictured is a drone. His job is to mate and eat and basically do no work.


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## jamurfjr (Mar 22, 2013)

"Laid back— with my mind on my [honey] and my [honeys] on my mind." Word.


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## Rick (Mar 23, 2013)

jamurfjr said:


> "Laid back— with my mind on my [honey] and my [honeys] on my mind." Word.


hahaha


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## ScienceGirl (Mar 23, 2013)

Haha! Oh, I do love a good bee quote....

Honestly, the thing that I'm excited for the most is to see my vivacious honey bees bobbing around on the flowers on our deck. The joy of being able to say, "Those are mine!"


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## Rick (Mar 24, 2013)

We planted stuff for the bees and they couldn't care less. The stuff in the yard is rarely visited by my bees. They fly out of the hives and up and away.


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## jamurfjr (Mar 24, 2013)

I don't expect any honey this first year with package bees. Nonetheless, I'd like some tips on extracting without an extractor. It may be some time—if ever—before I invest in such a costly piece of equipment. My foundation is plastic covered with wax—not the best, but free with the kits I purchased. Mind you, I also do not have access to a uncapping knife. I've seen some gravity methods and heard of cutting of the caps with a hot kitchen knife or just an uncapping fork. What's your method? Thanks in advance!


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## ScienceGirl (Mar 24, 2013)

Rick said:


> We planted stuff for the bees and they couldn't care less. The stuff in the yard is rarely visited by my bees. They fly out of the hives and up and away.


Haha! I've read (oh my goodness, I've read all the way through, and skimmed a couple, of more than 15 bee books!) that honey bees tend to fly farther away from their hives, saving the nearby plants for bad weather, emergencies, or nectar dearths. Seriously though, my darling lady bees, if you don't harvest the nectar from those painstakingly planted flowers, some other bee will!!!!!

I've also read that each bee has a preference to where they forage, and which plant they forage. Honey bees have a remarkable "culture."



jamurfjr said:


> I don't expect any honey this first year with package bees. Nonetheless, I'd like some tips on extracting without an extractor. It may be some time—if ever—before I invest in such a costly piece of equipment. My foundation is plastic covered with wax—not the best, but free with the kits I purchased. Mind you, I also do not have access to a uncapping knife. I've seen some gravity methods and heard of cutting of the caps with a hot kitchen knife or just a uncapping fork. What's your method? Thanks in advance!


If you are using plastic comb, I think that your only option will be extracting. Look around and use your search engine. Some bee clubs have extractors that you can share or rent. Some bee equiptment companies sell 2nd hand extractors, or let you rent theirs. My favorite bee books are very informational, informative, and offer solutions to many problems. My two favorites are:


*The Beekeeper's Handbook *by Diana Sammataro and Alphonse Avitabile
*Beekeeping for Dummies*


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## jamurfjr (Mar 24, 2013)

The association to which I belong has an extractor for member use, but so many compete for it.

Here's the gravity extractor I mentioned: http://www.greenbeehives.com/gravityextractor.html. Draw back on this appears to be time or waiting as well.

I may just have to bite the bullet. There is a member selling his extractor relatively cheap. He's going with a bigger model.

The books on beekeeping that I own focus only on the use of a conventional extractor.


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## Rick (Mar 25, 2013)

I don't know Science Girl, my bees never visit the bee friendly things we have planted.


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## ScienceGirl (Mar 26, 2013)

Rick said:


> I don't know Science Girl, my bees never visit the bee friendly things we have planted.


What did you plant? Lavender probably works well, I'm guessing. The neighbors have large lavender bushes - the bees (not ours, idk whose they are or whether they are wild), butterflies, and mantids love it.  



jamurfjr said:


> The association to which I belong has an extractor for member use, but so many compete for it.
> 
> Here's the gravity extractor I mentioned: http://www.greenbeehives.com/gravityextractor.html. Draw back on this appears to be time or waiting as well.
> 
> ...


If you can afford it, that's great!!! The other thing with sharing equiptment is that foulbrood spores and other disease spores can last about 80 years. This honey is FINE to feed to people and sell, but if you feed it to your bees, they have a good chance of getting the diseases.


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## Rick (Mar 27, 2013)

We planted lavender, bee balm, and a few other things I can't recall. The bees NEVER visited any of it.


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## ScienceGirl (Mar 28, 2013)

jamurfjr said:


> The association to which I belong has an extractor for member use, but so many compete for it.
> 
> Here's the gravity extractor I mentioned: http://www.greenbeehives.com/gravityextractor.html. Draw back on this appears to be time or waiting as well.
> 
> ...





Rick said:


> I don't know Science Girl, my bees never visit the bee friendly things we have planted.


Officially a beekeeper! I'll be posting a new thread soon with pictures and everything, so we can continue our lengthy bee related conversations in a more suitable place.


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## ScienceGirl (Mar 28, 2013)

Rick said:


> We planted lavender, bee balm, and a few other things I can't recall. The bees NEVER visited any of it.


That is strange. Lavender always seems to have bees en mass foraging on it, no matter where I go... I've never tried bee balm - maybe it attracts customers, rather than bees? :huh: I've heard of it before, though. Hopefully we'll get a big garden crop this year!!!


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## Rick (Mar 28, 2013)

But the bumblebees love all this stuff. No, bee balm is a bee friendly plant. I actually did some research and didn't just buy what I thought looked good.


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## jamurfjr (Mar 28, 2013)

Rick said:


> But the bumblebees love all this stuff. No, bee balm is a bee friendly plant. I actually did some research and didn't just buy what I thought looked good.


Yeah, bee balm was recommended in the last class...


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## ScienceGirl (Mar 28, 2013)

Rick said:


> But the bumblebees love all this stuff. No, bee balm is a bee friendly plant. I actually did some research and didn't just buy what I thought looked good.





jamurfjr said:


> Yeah, bee balm was recommended in the last class...


Hmmmm.... That's strange... How many bee balms did you plant? If you just planted a couple, maybe the variety was different, or the genes from it's parent plants affected the amount of nectar produced.


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## ScienceGirl (Mar 28, 2013)

Rick said:


> I don't know Science Girl, my bees never visit the bee friendly things we have planted.





jamurfjr said:


> The association to which I belong has an extractor for member use, but so many compete for it.
> 
> Here's the gravity extractor I mentioned: http://www.greenbeehives.com/gravityextractor.html. Draw back on this appears to be time or waiting as well.
> 
> ...


Okay, guys! I started a new post!

"Beekeeping"

posted by ScienceGirl

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=29424


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## jamurfjr (Mar 29, 2013)

Okay...as long as I'm allowed to post in it.


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## ScienceGirl (Mar 31, 2013)

jamurfjr said:


> Okay...as long as I'm allowed to post in it.


Oh, yes!!! POST AS MUCH AS YOU LIKE!!! ... Actually, post more than you want to. I'm very happy to talk bees. :stuart:


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