# Bunch of lazy layabouts!



## Kruszakus (Jan 24, 2010)

I have 5 adult Gongylus females, and 20 adult Gongylus males - I keep them warm, I keep them well fed, and so on - yet none of them even attempted mating... this is really starting to annoy me. I keep them in a net-cage, with three 40W lamps per enclosure.

Anyone has had a situation like that? I get many things, but 20 males... and none of them wanted to mate in like 2 months? Seriously...

Oh, and some females are about 3 months old, and only 2 of them laid just one ooth per each.

I'm baffled by this whole thing, and I seriously don't know what to do.


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## agent A (Jan 24, 2010)

Kruszakus said:


> I have 5 adult Gongylus females, and 20 adult Gongylus males - I keep them warm, I keep them well fed, and so on - yet none of them even attempted mating... this is really starting to annoy me. I keep them in a net-cage, with three 40W lamps per enclosure.Anyone has had a situation like that? I get many things, but 20 males... and none of them wanted to mate in like 2 months? Seriously...
> 
> Oh, and some females are about 3 months old, and only 2 of them laid just one ooth per each.
> 
> I'm baffled by this whole thing, and I seriously don't know what to do.


I this problem with my egyptian mantids. They were adults for over a month and they wouldn't mate. The female already layed an infertile ooth. They were in the same room, so I took the male's cage and put it on a whole different level of the house for 2 days and then I brought the female's cage to that room with the male's cage. I intoduced them in the female's cage and a few hours later, they mated. The female's first 2 ooths after that mating have hatched and after 2 ooths, they remated and my male did weeks later but my female just layed her 7th ooth. So my suggestion is have the males and females in separate parts of the house for a few days and then re introduce them. Works like a charm!


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## revmdn (Jan 24, 2010)

As you know I'm no expert, but have you tried seperating a pair? Also I'd ask Yen or Abuggin as I know they have both done a lot with this species. Mine are not adult, so I have no personal knowledge about mating them. I'm very interested in hearing how this turns out. I want to mate mine as well.


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## Rick (Jan 24, 2010)

Andrew has had great success with them. He may know something you can do.


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## Kruszakus (Jan 24, 2010)

All I know, is that I had success with them this summer. Everything was going fine back then, but now? I dunno, maybe it's because the temperatures outside are like -20C? This year's winter in Europe is really severe, maybe that's what's affecting those mantids. I mean, I'm trying to keep them warm, but there's just so much you can do.


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## agent A (Jan 24, 2010)

I recommend 4 daylight basking blubs 100 watt and 4 infared 100 watt, keep infared on all the time


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## sbugir (Jan 24, 2010)

agent A said:


> I recommend 4 daylight basking blubs 100 watt and 4 infared 100 watt, keep infared on all the time


8 Bulbs??? 100 watts each? Are you trying to cook your mantids...? or 100 watts total...?


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## Kruszakus (Jan 24, 2010)

agent A said:


> I recommend 4 daylight basking blubs 100 watt and 4 infared 100 watt, keep infared on all the time


Eight 100 watt bulbs for one enclosure? I might as well throw them Gongylus in a furnace.

Dude, why are you trying to give advice on a species you have no idea about? Seriously, why are you doing that? If you are looking for acknowledgement, then get it by doing something relevant. Stop wasting everyone's time by posting senseless threads.


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## Rick (Jan 24, 2010)

agent A said:


> I recommend 4 daylight basking blubs 100 watt and 4 infared 100 watt, keep infared on all the time


Huh? Mine are under one 25 w halogen and the temps are 105 degrees. Also you would want a day/night cycle. As was mentioned, if you haven't kept the species you should not be giving any care advice.


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## massaman (Jan 24, 2010)

maybe he should get a few of these and actually learn how to raise them before he makes advice or opinions on a species he never owned!


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## ZoeRipper (Jan 24, 2010)

agent A said:


> I recommend 4 daylight basking blubs 100 watt and 4 infared 100 watt, keep infared on all the time


Well I've never kept this species but my recommendation is to build a fire next to the mantis enclosures to ensure that they're warm and then dump water on them to made sure they're getting enough humidity--

Dude! Alex, I used to think you were a cool kid but seriously, man! Do you read what you type?!


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## keri (Jan 24, 2010)

I agree with Zoe... just be sure not to burn cedar as it's not good for the mantids  (j/k)


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## Peter Clausen (Jan 25, 2010)

Have you attempted physical placement of a male on a female's back? Maybe hanging out looking at a bunch of pretty ladies is just frustrating them.


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## Rick (Jan 25, 2010)

Peter said:


> Have you attempted physical placement of a male on a female's back? Maybe hanging out looking at a bunch of pretty ladies is just frustrating them.


That's what I do for almost every speices lately.


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## Kruszakus (Jan 25, 2010)

Nah, they come off of females instantly.


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## ismart (Jan 25, 2010)

Just seperate a few pairs for a week and then put them back together, and see what happens? I have yet to breed this species, but i do know when some species are kept in large groups they lose interest. Not mention you kinda have a sausage party going on over there. The males are probally trying to jump each others bones in confusion.


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## sufistic (Jan 25, 2010)

ismart said:


> Just seperate a few pairs for a week and then put them back together, and see what happens? I have yet to breed this species, but i do know when some species are kept in large groups they lose interest. Not mention you kinda have a sausage party going on over there. The males are probally trying to jump each others bones in confusion.


Actually Paul, some breeders I know will also place more males than females in a single enclosure. They do this so that the males will sort of compete with one another and arouse the interest of other males to mount the females. I think this is what Krus is trying to do. Right Krus?


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## Kruszakus (Jan 25, 2010)

Yeah, that what's I've been trying to achieve. I wanted to surround those females with ample partners, to ensure that at least one or two males would be persistent enough to actually mate. But so far... nothing, just nothing. And those females don't seem fine eighter - out of those five, only 2 laid ooths so far - and it was like 2 months ago! The previous generation did not give me such problems - males were willing to mate, and females would lay at least 2 ooths each month... this really has my flustered.


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## ismart (Jan 25, 2010)

sufistic said:


> Actually Paul, some breeders I know will also place more males than females in a single enclosure. They do this so that the males will sort of compete with one another and arouse the interest of other males to mount the females. I think this is what Krus is trying to do. Right Krus?


I think your giving them to much credit. On a visual cue they will try and mount whom ever is in there until they get it right. I once put 5 adult chinese males in a net cage and whatched to see what they would do. Needless to say it was extremely gay! :lol:


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## sufistic (Jan 25, 2010)

ismart said:


> I think your giving them to much credit. On a visual cue they will try and mount whom ever is in there until they get it right. I once put 5 adult chinese males in a net cage and whatched to see what they would do. Needless to say it was extremely gay! :lol:


LOL. Here's an interesting T. elegans photo by a Japanese breeder.


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## Kruszakus (Jan 25, 2010)

About separation... should I move males to a totally different room or something? Of can I keep them in the same room, just in different enclosures?


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## ismart (Jan 25, 2010)

Kruszakus said:


> About separation... should I move males to a totally different room or something? Of can I keep them in the same room, just in different enclosures?


I would keep them in the same room, but in different enclosures. Make sure they can not see each other. Wait a week and hope for the best!


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## ABbuggin (Jan 25, 2010)

As ismart said, try separating them. When my gongylus reached L4-5 I separated the males from the females. I have kept them this way ever since, and only put them together when its time to mate. The male usually doesn't care about the female for about 24hrs. By the next day, he is busy doing what he is supposed to do. B)


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## Kruszakus (Jan 25, 2010)

ABbuggin said:


> The male usually doesn't care about the female for about 24hrs. By the next day, he is busy doing what he is supposed to do. B)


Tell it to my males.


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## agent A (Jan 25, 2010)

okay I exagerated about the bulbs. I am not really good with how much heat a bulb emits. I was kidding about the 8 bulbs, but I do recommend separating males and females for a few days.


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## PhilinYuma (Jan 25, 2010)

agent A said:


> okay I exagerated about the bulbs. I am not really good with how much heat a bulb emits. I was kidding about the 8 bulbs, but I do recommend separating males and females for a few days.


Have we ever chatted about collecting tie pins, Alex? They can be tasteful without being expensive.


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## ismart (Jan 25, 2010)

PhilinYuma said:


> Have we ever chatted about collecting tie pins, Alex? They can be tasteful without being expensive.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Kruszakus (Jan 25, 2010)

What? Is that an idiom of sorts?


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## yen_saw (Jan 25, 2010)

Kruszakus said:


> I have 5 adult Gongylus females, and 20 adult Gongylus males - I keep them warm, I keep them well fed, and so on - yet none of them even attempted mating... this is really starting to annoy me. I keep them in a net-cage, with three 40W lamps per enclosure.Anyone has had a situation like that? I get many things, but 20 males... and none of them wanted to mate in like 2 months? Seriously...
> 
> Oh, and some females are about 3 months old, and only 2 of them laid just one ooth per each.
> 
> I'm baffled by this whole thing, and I seriously don't know what to do.


If the female is not producing ootheca, the condition is not optimum for her to deposit ooth, such as the temp is too low. If the condition is right, you will see the female calling, have you seen any of the adult females from this batch calling so far? Gongylus males usually don't get the kick to mate if the temp is below 100F (eventhough female is receptive at any warm temperature). Try to put about 5-7 males in a large cage (a meter cube or more) in 80-85F for couple of days, then heat the cage up to 100F with extra heat lamp, the male Gongylus will think the hot summer has arrived and become active, then you place _single _female into the cage. That might work.

This is my cage (2 ft x 2 ft x 4 ft). I have only one light bulb for a week with the male, then increased to three 60W bulb before introducing the female. Temp gets to about 100-105F during the day. I have about 5-7 males and one female in the cage all the time.







The pair will 'dance' to each other (seems like a mating ritual) and mate. As soon as i see a mating pair, i will take the pair out and put them in a separate cage so other male won't disturb the mating pair. At the same time, i will place another female in the large cage with the rest of the males.






Transferring a mating pair to foot cube cage.


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## kamakiri (Jan 26, 2010)

Kruszakus said:


> What? Is that an idiom of sorts?


Naw. You just missed the Oliver episode. He should be gone now.


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## Kruszakus (Jan 26, 2010)

It might be too cold, who knows - this year's winter is really giving everyone a hard time. I the warmer spot of the enclosure, it's like about 35C - maybe I should try, and go even higher?


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## revmdn (Jan 26, 2010)

Yen, that dosen't disturb them when you move them likr that? That's wild.


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## Kruszakus (Jan 26, 2010)

I moved more lamps to one spot - all females imediatelly moved their butts there (it's about 40C there), males did the same - I'm gon add one more lamp there, but I need to go to Castorama to buy some 40W spot-lights and stuff.


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## sufistic (Jan 26, 2010)

That's a good sign Krus. I wish you the best. I just got an ooth hatched, so I'm trying to learn this sp. and this thread has been particularly useful.


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## yen_saw (Jan 26, 2010)

Kruszakus said:


> It might be too cold, who knows - this year's winter is really giving everyone a hard time. I the warmer spot of the enclosure, it's like about 35C - maybe I should try, and go even higher?


 What is the ambient temp in your bug room? If the room is cold, the temperature could vary quite a bit between the area near light bulb and the area not far from the light source. To conserve heat in the cage you could reduce the ventilation (like wrapping up somet part of the cage with plastic), instead of adding more light bulb. It is hard to tell without seeing the cage.


revmdn said:


> Yen, that dosen't disturb them when you move them likr that? That's wild.


There is actually an easy way to move violin mantis to your palm, without touching the male at all, especially if the female is hanging upside down. Their long leg allows enough space for my hand to get in between the footing and the body, gently tap the female leg with your finger and she would put her foot on your hand, then go on with the rest of the legs. Sorry not sure if that make any sense or not it is kind of hard to explain by word.  


Kruszakus said:


> I moved more lamps to one spot - all females imediatelly moved their butts there (it's about 40C there), males did the same - I'm gon add one more lamp there, but I need to go to Castorama to buy some 40W spot-lights and stuff.


 becareful with extra light bulb, it may need more light bulbs to heat up the entire cage but tere is always the fire hazard with extra heat. Or you could try to block the heat loss by reducing ventilation as mentioned earlier, save you $$ for electric and lightbulb, and also reduce the risk of fire hazard.


sufistic said:


> That's a good sign Krus. I wish you the best. I just got an ooth hatched, so I'm trying to learn this sp. and this thread has been particularly useful.


 Congrate Shaik, aren't they cool!!


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## Kruszakus (Jan 26, 2010)

It ain't so good with the mean temperatures in my room, it's usually 20C. But I turned the radiator on to the full, and it gives some additional heat.

I know about the fire hazard, but I've got lamps placed in places where it's safe to use them - I even have my own system of preventing mantids from burns (with the bulbs placed inside the enclosure).

It's a net-cage, so I kinda had to experiment a little bit. I covered the "ceiling" with a piece of glass, which I snatched from a cupboard  I also covered some of the walls with aluminum foil... this will actually come handy, as my mantids are "peeing" on my walls constantly.

I dunno, it has been only a couple of hours since I started increasing the temperatures through all means possible, but Gongylus already seem to be more active - I think, that one of the females is actually looking for a spot to deposit an ooth.

I'll keep you posted.


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