# Gongylus gongylodes



## ThorEH

Finally they arrived a couple of days ago.. After some minor problems with Norwegian customs












Even looks as 2 different sexe's. (counting segments)

These two should be 2.instar


----------



## spawn

Beautiful pictures! What are you feeding them, and what temps? Also, where did you get them?


----------



## ThorEH

Mine are from Martin French in England...

Are currently giving them _D.hydeii_, and keeping them at 30 C, planning to raise the temperature to about 35 C after a moult and two..


----------



## asdsdf

Ooh, wow. Nice pic!

What happened with the Norwegian customs?


----------



## ThorEH

For some reason they wanted me to show a license from the Norwegian Departement of Nature that I was allowed to take them in to the country... even though there is no Norwegian laws saying you can't take tropical insects in to Norway. But as the laws is as they are, it wasn't a problem to get such a license  But the mantids got stuck in transi twice the time as they should.


----------



## Sparky

that is just, WOW!


----------



## OGIGA

They look really cool with that skinny neck!


----------



## Kruszakus

You should see how an adult Gongylus looks like... man those mantids can impress!


----------



## joossa

Impressive!


----------



## empusapennata

Hi ThorEH,

Beautiful pictures!

Regards


----------



## ThorEH

A couple of new pics yesterday.. One of them shedded to L3 to yesterday. I'll se if I can get som new pics of it later today.


----------



## macro junkie

nice shots


----------



## Malnra

the more of them i see, the more i think that is the species i want to have. Asians are going to be my test subjects to see just how much of a pain it is going to be to keep raising flies for them to eat as little ones. Feeding crickets has GOT to be a whole lot easier.

But I do like the look of those .....


----------



## macro junkie

Geoff_K said:


> the more of them i see, the more i think that is the species i want to have. Asians are going to be my test subjects to see just how much of a pain it is going to be to keep raising flies for them to eat as little ones. Feeding crickets has GOT to be a whole lot easier.But I do like the look of those .....


yes..im not sure how big there going to be cause iv never bought any this wil be 1st time..they should be here tomrow..i have ordered crikct hachlings?u think they be ok for baby thats shed 2 times..its this big


----------



## Malnra

macro junkie said:


> yes..im not sure how big there going to be cause iv never bought any this wil be 1st time..they should be here tomrow..i have ordered crikct hachlings?u think they be ok for baby thats shed 2 times..its this big


Well ..... I did read somewhere that feeding them crickets may make them lay bad OOTH ..... now I take that with a grain of salt, but I think I saw it on more than 1 site. Best to check with someone or has them and breeds them. I am also curious if crickets would be acceptable, I would not gamble on a breeding pair though.


----------



## Mantida

ThorEH said:


> A couple of new pics yesterday.. One of them shedded to L3 to yesterday. I'll se if I can get som new pics of it later today.


I am jeehh lus! Such a gorgeous mantis. @[email protected]


----------



## king_frog

Now that's a wierd looking mantis :blink: .

But beutiful nontheless. Very beutiful.


----------



## spawn

I believe the negativity rumored by the crickets is caused by crickets' general disposition to eating whatever garbage that is around them, instead of people gutloading them with fruits or proteins. Deshawn recently updated his website in regards to "healthy" crickets on this very subject.


----------



## Red

really nice pics. how many nynphs you have?

i have traded some with martin, very good breeder  

Regards


----------



## Andrew

Great pics and great mantids!

As for the talk about the ootheca, a cricket-only diet supposedly messes up how the foam on the ooth forms, or something along those lines.


----------



## robo mantis

Anyone culturing them in America? By the way Beautiful mantids!


----------



## tier

"I need more food!"

Hi everyone, especially Hi ThorE.

Well, some people do fine with them over here in Germany. But unfortuanetly the good-father of Gongylus, Sören, who was breeding them for much more than 10 years (yes, much more than 10 years!!!) over here, is not able to breed them any longer. The genpool should be pretty good, thanks to Sören 

Again I bartered some nymphs with other breeders to keep the geenpool, but I hope it is not only a question of time that this species will dissapear. While the last of mine oothecas are hatching, the next subadult should molt adult the next days and a friend of mine was lucky and she's got some paired females which already started oohteca-production.



 "We need more food!"



 here comes the new food ;-)

Best regards,

tier


----------



## spawn

Correct me, but it appears as though you are feeding one Violin Mantis another Violin Mantis in those pictures? The first one looks like the bigger one already ripped part of the body off of the smaller one and has the chunk in his left claw?


----------



## ThorEH

Blow the pic up, and you will see that the big one has got a flie in his claws


----------



## Mantida

ThorEH said:


> Blow the pic up, and you will see that the big one has got a flie in his claws


All I see is another violin mantis with a smaller one's body and head in its claws.


----------



## Mantida

tier said:


> "I need more food!"Hi everyone, especially Hi ThorE.
> 
> Well, some people do fine with them over here in Germany. But unfortuanetly the good-father of Gongylus, Sören, who was breeding them for much more than 10 years (yes, much more than 10 years!!!) over here, is not able to breed them any longer. The genpool should be pretty good, thanks to Sören
> 
> Again I bartered some nymphs with other breeders to keep the geenpool, but I hope it is not only a question of time that this species will dissapear. While the last of mine oothecas are hatching, the next subadult should molt adult the next days and a friend of mine was lucky and she's got some paired females which already started oohteca-production.
> 
> 
> 
> "We need more food!"
> 
> 
> 
> here comes the new food ;-)
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> tier


I hope you aren't referring to that you're feeding the newly hatched violin nymphs to the bigger ones... :mellow:


----------



## ThorEH

mantida said:


> All I see is another violin mantis with a smaller one's body and head in its claws.


Sorry, I was lookin at the picture underneath. Off course you're right


----------



## tier

Hi

Yes, I do feed all my animals with Gongylus.









 

No man! Of course I do not use Gongylus as food!!!

For sure not!  

The pictures are showing special situations I wanted to share with you. Please let me explain the photos:

I keep nymphs of several instars together in enclosures. This is no problem because they are not agressive towards each other, but of course there are very few accidents sometimes. Instar 1 is very active and moving around. Even if there are enough flies in the enclosure, sometimes they are captured by older nymphs. In the picture you can see that the older ("killer-") nymph is very fat and should not be hungry. But accidents happen.

The second picture is showing two animals who have captured the same fly. This is happenig pretty often but is not necessaryly a problem.

The third picture is showing some hatchlings. The title "here comes new food" was just a little joke  

And the newly posted pictures are showing a very old "three-legged" male. He was already fighting with his death and so he became the food of Rhacodactylus chahoua.

Best regards again,

tier


----------



## ThorEH

Very interesting pics Tier, but please find another host for your pictures... it's so annoying with all the commercial on you host

Would recommend Flickr.com


----------



## tier

Hi

Yes, I hate the commercials, either. I wil try to use the host you pointed out. Thank you.

Regards,

tier


----------



## Mantida

tier said:


> HiYes, I do feed all my animals with Gongylus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No man! Of course I do not use Gongylus as food!!!
> 
> For sure not!
> 
> The pictures are showing special situations I wanted to share with you. Please let me explain the photos:
> 
> I keep nymphs of several instars together in enclosures. This is no problem because they are not agressive towards each other, but of course there are very few accidents sometimes. Instar 1 is very active and moving around. Even if there are enough flies in the enclosure, sometimes they are captured by older nymphs. In the picture you can see that the older ("killer-") nymph is very fat and should not be hungry. But accidents happen.
> 
> The second picture is showing two animals who have captured the same fly. This is happenig pretty often but is not necessaryly a problem.
> 
> The third picture is showing some hatchlings. The title "here comes new food" was just a little joke
> 
> And the newly posted pictures are showing a very old "three-legged" male. He was already fighting with his death and so he became the food of Rhacodactylus chahoua.
> 
> Best regards again,
> 
> tier


Haha. Alright. 'Cuz I was beginning to think you were a bit crazy to feed gongylodes to gongylodes and other animals. :blink: :lol:  

Are you currently breeding this species?


----------



## spawn

Haha, just making sure. Nothing was more blatantly stupid to me than someone coming on saying he was afraid the species was dwindling in captivity, and then showing us pictures of Violins being killed by their own kind. But yeah, I totally understand the situation and the pictures are very cool and justified. Thank for sharing.

Where are you located Tier?


----------



## tier

Hi

@mantida: Yes, I do breed them in the moment. I have about 100 nymphs left. It is a mix of every instar and both sexes.

The other nymphs from this generation are already sold, but I still have about 10 oothecas left which should hatch the next days.

@spawn: I'm located in Duisburg, Germany.

By the way: It is not possible to send oothecas or nymphs, I am sorry. I will start selling again in spring because of the temperatures which are too low till spring.

Best regards,

tier


----------



## Mantida

tier said:


> [email protected]: Yes, I do breed them in the moment. I have about 100 nymphs left. It is a mix of every instar and both sexes.
> 
> The other nymphs from this generation are already sold, but I still have about 10 oothecas left which should hatch the next days.
> 
> @spawn: I'm located in Duisburg, Germany.
> 
> By the way: It is not possible to send oothecas or nymphs, I am sorry. I will start selling again in spring because of the temperatures which are too low till spring.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> tier


Yes, I can imagine it's pretty chilly in Germany now.  In the spring will you ship to the US?


----------



## tier

Hi

Thank you for you interest. But I don't know yet.

If have no expirience in sending mantids for so far distances. One time I sold 20 Idolomorpha to Poland, which is not so far from Germany, and all died.

I've heard that some friends of mine have good experience with trading oothecas, but for various reasons I HATE selling or buying oothecas.

Well, if I will get enough nymphs, We can try to let them travel or there is another possibility:

I will sell some nymphs to Lars. I know some of you guys already know him. He's a number one breeder and seller in Germany and he has big experience with sending mantids for far distances. I will give him some animals and he will be able to send them worldwide. His page is www.mantisanddragons.com , but I guess in the moment he has no Gongylus left, I'm sorry. But hes got al lot of cheap mantids of different kinds in perfect conditions. H always offers Gongylus in between.

By the way: You should keep them at at least 26°C at night and 40°C at daytime. Light for 12 hours. In nighttime I use heating-cables underneath the enclosures. Diet: Mine have never seeing something else than flies, any kinds of flies. Feeding crickets to Gongylus is killing the Gongylus! And they need big areas for air-circulation. Keeping them in closed boxes with less fresh air is also killing them. If You follow these three points, they do well: Very hot, very lot fresh air, only flies.

And like every Empusidae they are not able to climb glass. Infact you need lot of thin twigs.

Regards,

tier


----------



## Mantida

tier said:


> HiThank you for you interest. But I don't know yet.
> 
> If have no expirience in sending mantids for so far distances. One time I sold 20 Idolomorpha to Poland, which is not so far from Germany, and all died.
> 
> I've heard that some friends of mine have good experience with trading oothecas, but for various reasons I HATE selling or buying oothecas.
> 
> Well, if I will get enough nymphs, We can try to let them travel or there is another possibility:
> 
> I will sell some nymphs to Lars. I know some of you guys already know him. He's a number one breeder and seller in Germany and he has big experience with sending mantids for far distances. I will give him some animals and he will be able to send them worldwide. His page is www.mantisanddragons.com , but I guess in the moment he has no Gongylus left, I'm sorry. But hes got al lot of cheap mantids of different kinds in perfect conditions. H always offers Gongylus in between.
> 
> By the way: You should keep them at at least 26°C at night and 40°C at daytime. Light for 12 hours. In nighttime I use heating-cables underneath the enclosures. Diet: Mine have never seeing something else than flies, any kinds of flies. Feeding crickets to Gongylus is killing the Gongylus! And they need big areas for air-circulation. Keeping them in closed boxes with less fresh air is also killing them. If You follow these three points, they do well: Very hot, very lot fresh air, only flies.
> 
> And like every Empusidae they are not able to climb glass. Infact you need lot of thin twigs.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> tier


I understand perfectly. I've never sent mantids long distance, yet alone even sold them before.

I don't think I'm at the level to take on Gongylodes also, as I am not a super mantid breeder and Idols are a challenge. So, probably whenever you are ready to send out mantids long distance or send them to Lars I will be ready for Idols.


----------



## ThorEH

Now at L4.. just gettin more and more fascinating !


----------



## ThorEH




----------



## Kruszakus

tier said:


> HiThank you for you interest. But I don't know yet.
> 
> If have no expirience in sending mantids for so far distances. One time I sold 20 Idolomorpha to Poland, which is not so far from Germany, and all died.


Well, obviously they all died because you did not give them anything to eat.


----------



## asdsdf

> Well, obviously they all died because you did not give them anything to eat


Lol, not sure if that's the only reason though. There could be other factors.

Wait, did you get them from him?


----------



## tier

Hi

In the moment I keep some L4-instars in an enclosure with mainly L1-L3, so I have to offer big house-flies and smaller flies.

Well, I already saw some L1-instars catching krull-flies= terfly= Musca spec., but today a L1 nymph caught a fat house-fly. It was a nice fight 







> Well, obviously they all died because you did not give them anything to eat.


No, I never feed them, that's way they develop such fine ;-)


----------



## ThorEH

Cool.. still just giving my L4 D.hydeii. Seems sufficient.

ut Tier : www.flickr.com - please


----------



## tier

Uuups, sorry again, ThorEH, I forgot again.

I will use this sunday to create my flick-account, I promise 

Your pictures are as great as all your pictures,

regards,

tier


----------



## tier

And here it is, one picture with my nex flickr account which I already like a lot.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2040/204367...e6adc9e9c_o.jpg

Regards


----------



## ThorEH

And here's a new pic from today...


----------



## Kruszakus

tier said:


> No, I never feed them, that's way they develop such fine ;-)


This sentence does not make sense.

If you do not feed hatchlings, and you send them in a package, then it's quite obvious that they will be dead at the arrival.


----------



## ThorEH

It's a joke... he's beeing sarcastic with you, even ironic ! Offcourse he feeds the !


----------



## asdsdf

Kruszakus said:


> This sentence does not make sense.If you do not feed hatchlings, and you send them in a package, then it's quite obvious that they will be dead at the arrival.


Were you the one who got 20 of them dead? Nymphs can live for a while without other food types, especially with all of those tasty sibling around them.  It could be the weather, or dehydration.

I second ThorEH. :lol:


----------



## Mantida

asdsdf said:


> Were you the one who got 20 of them dead? Nymphs can live for a while without other food types, especially with all of those tasty sibling around them.  It could be the weather, or dehydration.I second ThorEH. :lol:


Yup!

And the first time he said that they needed more food, he was kidding also.


----------



## Kruszakus

Nah, I was not the one - but I was told about a german guy who sent someone 20 Idolomorphs that were badly malnutritioned and died during the transport or shortly after being delivered.


----------



## asdsdf

Kruszakus said:


> As a matter of fact, I know who got those dead nymphs.


Awww....That's too bad. What happened afterwards?


----------



## Kruszakus

I don't know, never asked if that person got a refund - I hope so.

But the thing is, it's sad - 20 nymphs dead just like that... what a waste... :mellow:


----------



## asdsdf

I was Pmd, so now I know.


----------



## spawn

Have you noted any cannibalism with the L1's? I know as they grow older they won't touch each other.


----------



## tier

No, Idolomorpha is a little more aggressive than Gongylus or Idolomantis.

Unfortuanatly one of my subadult females of Idolomorpha was eaten by another. This has not occured at Gongylus or Idolomantis yet, but at Idolomorpha. It seems that if you are unlucky you can loose them at every instar.

Adult males always live a very dangerous life because they are attaced when they flutter with their wings.

Regards


----------



## Mantida

tier said:


> No, Idolomorpha is a little more aggressive than Gongylus or Idolomantis.Unfortuanatly one of my subadult females of Idolomorpha was eaten by another. This has not occured at Gongylus or Idolomantis yet, but at Idolomorpha. It seems that if you are unlucky you can loose them at every instar.
> 
> Adult males always live a very dangerous life because they are attaced when they flutter with their wings.
> 
> Regards


What is the main difference between 'Idolomorpha' and 'Idolomantis'? Are they both supposedly communal?


----------



## macro junkie

tier said:


> HiIn the moment I keep some L4-instars in an enclosure with mainly L1-L3, so I have to offer big house-flies and smaller flies.
> 
> Well, I already saw some L1-instars catching krull-flies= terfly= Musca spec., but today a L1 nymph caught a fat house-fly. It was a nice fight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I never feed them, that's way they develop such fine ;-)


i clicked on your pic and got spam..great pic tho


----------



## spawn

*i clicked on your pic and got spam..great pic tho *

AHAHAHAHAAHAH.

When did we get on the subject of Idolomorpha by the way? Idolomorpha is not the same as Idolomantis.

Tier, what do you feed your Idolomorpha? Temps? Humidity?


----------



## tier

Only flies (of course fed with honey), but if available moth and butterflies, too.

28-35°C daytime, 20°C nighttime

Spraying water every 3-6 days.

Very lot of fresh air.

They CAN EASY molt adult on meshscreen without getting spread up wings, BUT ONLY if the Tarsae of them are in good conditions. Like Gongylus they just hang with their 2 Tarsae of the first pair of the legs (the pair which is used for catching the flys, not the other two pairs which are used just for walking and climbing) right after the adult-moulting, so that the wings can enlarge downwards their body with the natural gravity.

By the way, mine are Idolomorpha cf. lateralis, but some I. madagascariensis were seen in germany also. I think there are 5 different Idolomorpha described yet.

It is one of the very quick growing ones, makes it to adult in approx. 2 month after hatching. For example they are subadult for only 2 weeks 



> i clicked on your pic and got spam..


yeah, that's what ThorEh already pointed out. You can close the commercial-window like you close all other windows: The cross in the upper right corner. Actually I use flichr.com now. But it seems if I don't pay for the account, I only can post links but no direct pic?

regards,

tier


----------



## ThorEH

It's no problem to link direct to the link Tier..

press "all sizes" above the pic, and then use the url given under the picture


----------



## tier

Hi

Thak you.

But I already tryed the URL.

Well, try again:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2317/204805...a5540cb9f_o.jpg

regards and thanx,

tier

edit: No, it is just a link, but I used the URL?!?!


----------



## ThorEH

Yes, that is the correct url... but you need to use the




button...

Beatiful Idolomorpha... But, do not post Idolomorpha pictures in my Gongylus thread  Make a new one on Idolomorpha


----------



## tier

Sorry, but it was just for mantida. Won't post another. Or should I delete it here?

Thank you again for your big support!

tier


----------



## macro junkie




----------



## spawn

Thor -- have you been to mantisuniverse.net yet? You might notice some _key_ pictures


----------



## ThorEH

Off course... where do you think Carlito and Eliseo got the pictures from


----------



## ThorEH

And here are the pics of the Gongylus, both have now moulted - and are at L5 (or is it L6..?!?)


----------



## Kruszakus

Man, I must say that you are a splendid photographer! Awesome pictures!

I have a question - just how many of them you are currently keeping?


----------



## ThorEH

I only got two - haven't got to counting segments yet, but I'm hoping. Will get more of these in the spring - when it's safe to send


----------



## Kruszakus

From whom were these bought from? I have my eyes on this species for a long time, but I haven't heard about anything else but failure with breening them on my own turf - so no Gongylus from my homies...


----------



## tier

Hi

Your post No. 67 is showing (a) famale larvae for sure. Both pictures are females, so let's hope both pictures are showing the same, one animal?!?!

Regards,

tier

edit: Yes. Now I can see it is the same picture/ the same animal. This one is a female! Take pictures of the other one next time


----------



## ThorEH

Will take some pics of the other one tomorrow Tier - Thanks !


----------



## Gurd

Here are a few pics of 1 of mine


----------



## tier

Hi

A very few of mine:

Larvae-Mix, medium-old






males, subsub-sub






females, subsub-sub






regards, tier

PS: I won't sell none of them, please DO NOT ASK!!!


----------



## macro junkie

dude..can u sale me some?lol..im joking..hey i see u house these together..u do this all the way to adult?


----------



## tier

macro junkie said:


> dude..can u sale me some?lol..im joking..hey i see u house these together..u do this all the way to adult?


Yes, I keep them together all time, but seperate the males from the females. And I seperate very youg larvae from very old larvae.

regards


----------



## Kruszakus

Why keep both sexes apart?


----------



## tier

Hi

Because I have enough space 

It makes it easier to control them growing ;-)

regards


----------



## Kruszakus

Right... now another issue - people were complaining about ooth fertility. I mean, all of the females were after mating - so they were fertile, but the number of nymphs delivered from the ooths was like hitting a big number at a lottery - sometimes dwenty, sometimes two, sometimes none... have you encountered a similar problem?


----------



## tier

Hi

Well, not really.

The first Ootheca is always lottery, sometimes nothing will hatch, sometimes 35 will hatch.

But all the following oothecas are always more or less the same, depending on the female who layed them.

Some females just lay oothecas with always 12 eggs in each, other females build oothecas with always 30 eggs in each. In general every female builds approx 10-12 oothecas.

In general all larvae in one ootheca hatch out the same time, but in very few cases some hatch out (maybe three or four) and the rest of them will hatch out the next day or two days later.

regards


----------



## Kruszakus

Ok.

Sorry for the off-topic but I really would like to know something about Gongylus cousin - Idolomorpha lateralis. I have thirteen of them - L4/L5 - and one L6. I still cannot make out which ones are males and which ones are females - is sexing them so hard?

Plus - I hear that males live a short life, and it is a good idea to slow down their growth - is that true too?

Oh! And one thing - it's the fifth week of rearing this mantis - they seem to molt every 8-10 days - wow!


----------



## tier

Hi

Yes, they are quickest growing I know.

No, sexing them is as easy as sexing every mantid, at least for some of us  

You shouldn't slow down their groth via temperature but via food. Offer more food to the females!

regards


----------



## Kruszakus

Well, each time I count their segments it's always six of them - I hope I have some males, the pure thought of having females only freaks me out...







Sorry for the bad angle and quality - I would upload a bigged picture, but imageshack rejects my email.

L5 - is that a female?


----------



## tier

Hi

useless picture!

If you want me to guess, I guess male.

The both important parts (end of abdomen and antaenna) are not showen clearly enough, sorry.

PS: ThorEh doesn't like it if you post Idolomorpha here. And as you pointed out, it is OT. Please make a new thread.

regards

edit:


----------



## Kruszakus

What is that greenish, leafy thing attached to the abdomen of this Gongylus?

If you have any pictures of Idolomorpha - you can post them one thread below


----------



## Mantida

tier said:


>


Is that a leaf insect?


----------



## tier

Hi

This is a phasmid (no mantid &lt;_&lt; ), Phyllium siccifolium, female, L4, and a female Gongylus, subadult.

regards


----------



## Kruszakus

Well, that's a very nice phasmid... only, why is it perching on such a perilous spot?


----------



## Gurd

Another of mine

This 1 is darker in colour than the others


----------



## tier

Hi



> Well, that's a very nice phasmid... only, why is it perching on such a perilous spot?


As long as it is not adult and has no wings it won't flutter, in fact it won't be eaten.

But I just put them together for this photo  

Phyllium needs much cooler temperature than Gongylus.

regards


----------



## Kruszakus

Yeah - and judging by the color, it also needs higher humidity.

Well - is there any possibility that a phasmid could take lobes on the abdomen and legs of Gongylus and start munching on them? :lol: 

Oh, and man - stop showing me those photos - It breaks my heart that I do not have this mantis - since I got Idolomorpha I just fell in love with big, twiggy, leafy, otherwordly looking mantids.


----------



## Morpheus uk

YES NICE PHOTOS THOR AS USUAL :huh: 

Havent seen a dark morph like that one before


----------



## ThorEH

These are my two Gongylus - as you can see, the color is rather different on them..


----------



## tier

HI

Very nice, but - sorry to say - both are females :-(

Don't worry: You got wonderfull Gongylus 

regards


----------



## macro junkie

thorEH really like that 1st pic.


----------



## yen_saw

tier said:


> edit:


Nice pic tier! mantid vs phasmid


----------



## tier

Hi

Got some pics to distinguish sexes:

male, sub, abdomen and wings:






male, sub, portrait with big antenna:






female, sub, portrait with very thin antenna:






...the lady moulted subadult some hours ago

regards


----------



## Kruszakus

Hmmm - when do the males get longer, thicker antennae? At subadult, pre-subadult?


----------



## tier

Mhh, good question. I think it starts with L5/6, but it is not expressed as articulately as in older instars.

The older, the more articulate.

The abdomens are distinguishable with an age of L3, with L4 you cant't fail. L4 means one month after hatching if kept hot and fed well.

regards


----------



## Kruszakus

Well, it's not about Gongylus, but the mantis we all know but we don't want to discuss here. Yesterday my male moulted into 6th instar and thick antennae and large wing buds are visible - I'm just shocked, because I thought that it would happen at the sub-adult stage, and this is just seventh week since I got those mantids...

It would be quite shocking if they matured this month. Regardless of that - the speed at which they are growing is astonishing!


----------



## tier

Hi

I've forgotten how many instars I. lateralis has got, but I think L6 could already be sub??? :mellow: 

However: Congratulation you finally got a male  

regards

edit: PS: Happy birthday


----------



## Kruszakus

Well, I got three males and ten females - poor guys will be busy as heck, hehehe.

To my surprise - females L6 are about 6 cm long! Males are 5c So I give them two more molts more before they mature. Besides - six molts for a big mantis like that would be strange...

Well, thank you for your wishes  

Man, those Gongylus look just insane - I do not know why this mantis is not as much a coveted prize as Idolomantis...


----------



## tier

Hi

Yes, but Gongylus is so much easier than Idolomantis.  If somebody is not able to breed Gongys, he should better not try Idolomantis :blink:


----------



## Kruszakus

That's one of the reasons that gives Gongylus the edge over Idolomantis. I know that people like challenges - but to buy 30 Idolomantis nymphs you have to spend a horseload of money - and you are never certain whether this is a good investment.

I mean - sizewise they are similar, both species look insane - only that Gongylus looks great at every instar, whereas Idolomantis blossom after the final moult.

Plus, Gongylus is a bit cheaper and it's not a nerve wrecking species - I mean, you are having fun rearing it, don't you? They don't insta-die every day or have mismoults, now do they?


----------



## Giosan

ThorEH said:


> And here's a new pic from today...


Dude, where did you get those cool branches with thorns? Any chance you can send some to me? I wanna have those, can't get them here I fear..


----------



## macro junkie

Giosan said:


> Dude, where did you get those cool branches with thorns? Any chance you can send some to me? I wanna have those, can't get them here I fear..


lol.looks like rose bush.


----------



## Giosan

macro junkie said:


> lol.looks like rose bush.


They don't even sell that here &gt;.&lt; They do sell roses of course but they're cheap roses which totally rot when tried.. And won't be brown either...


----------



## idolomantis

Giosan said:


> They don't even sell that here &gt;.&lt; They do sell roses of course but they're cheap roses which totally rot when tried.. And won't be brown either...


nope here is no chanse to get brances like that here &gt;.&lt;


----------



## ThorEH

no, it's not rosebush. It's (trying to find the scientific name)....

Found it, Fructus cynosbati - I've got a large bush in my garden.


----------



## tier

Hi

Got some adults


----------



## mrblue

i miss g.gongylodes


----------



## Gurd

How are you doing with yours Thor??

3 out of my 4 ladies are adults now, they eat a lot of flies now :blink: 

edit:

1st matured has just finished laying an ooth


----------



## hibiscusmile

The pics are great!


----------



## Gurd

Stange looking ooth ain't it :blink:


----------



## tier

Hi

A little small, not looking great, but not looking really odd either. You gotta spray the foam away with water after it is dry.

regards


----------



## Gurd

tier said:


> HiA little small, not looking great, but not looking really odd either. You gotta spray the foam away with water after it is dry.
> 
> regards


thanks mate, quick spray with the mister and it now looks like an empty sweetcorn cob :lol:


----------



## tier

Hi

Here are 2 adult males and 2 adult females:






regards


----------



## ThorEH

> How are you doing with yours Thor??


They're doing OK - not growing to fast thought. But thats ok, as long as they survive  

Actually took a couple of pics of one of them today. I'll try to post later..


----------



## ThorEH




----------



## mrblue

pretty.


----------



## tier

Hi

Just a bad quality quick soht of a mating pair:







regards


----------



## Gurd

Good work mate  

How long before you put the female into males house?


----------



## tier

Hi

The female is about 3.5 weeks adult, the male is adult for about 2 weeks. I put them together about a week ago. They did not mate so today I put the whole group in a different cage. That worked.

Thanks and regards,

Stefan


----------



## tier

Hi






regards


----------



## Gurd

That screen has seen a few ooths hasn't it :blink: 

Well done mate


----------



## macro junkie

send 1 this way


----------



## tier

Hi

Some more mating:











And here is a subadult male (and a subadult female Rhombodera cf. basalis):





















best regards,

tier


----------



## bugzilla

All these pictures of these guys is driving me nuts. Where can I get a pair from, age doesn't matter provided they are M/F. The only ones I've come across so far are too small to sex :angry:


----------



## ABbuggin

What conditions (temp, humidity) are best for ooth incubations? Is it a god idea to have a lot of ventilation for the ooths also?

Oh by the way, I've almost completed the cage set up for when my G. gongylodes hatch.  Lots of thin twigs, space, ventilation, and heat. B) 

P.S. Are butterflies/moths good the gongylodes? I hope so because over here in this part of the US there are a LOT of them.


----------



## MikhailsDinos

Outstanding stuff guy's! I love reading post with such success, this forum brings me such joy to be on. Great people, wonderful mantis, plus some good laughs.  

Thanks again

Mikhail


----------



## ABbuggin

Just finished setting up the enlcosure I'll be using for the g. gongylodes. They temperatures are just right, but I'm using so much light to heat it up that when ever I look at the enclosure I'm like this: B) 

lol :lol:


----------



## tier

Hi

You incubate the ooths like most other: 30°C daytime, 24°C nighttime, good ventilation and humid substrate. Do not incubate the ooth as hot as you keep the adults. They never lay the ooths in the hottest spots, but in cooler areas.

There is no food as good as wild caught butterflies, but please make sure you only feed common butterflies but no forbidden ones. Are there any butterflies which are secured by the US laws? I guess so!

Best regards


----------



## Gurd

Here is 1 of my pairings






I will have to get out with a white sheet in the garden after dark and collect some moths.


----------



## ABbuggin

tier said:


> HiYou incubate the ooths like most other: 30°C daytime, 24°C nighttime, good ventilation and humid substrate. Do not incubate the ooth as hot as you keep the adults. They never lay the ooths in the hottest spots, but in cooler areas.
> 
> There is no food as good as wild caught butterflies, but please make sure you only feed common butterflies but no forbidden ones. Are there any butterflies which are secured by the US laws? I guess so!
> 
> Best regards


Ok, thanks for the ooth incubation info. Do I lightly mist the ooth? I normally do this for my other ooths but the gongylus are different!  

Trust me, I wont feed them protected sp. of butterfly! There are a few common species that frequent the butterfly bush I have that would be perfect for the G. gongylodes.  

I know crickets are bad for the gongylus, but what about grasshoppers and locusts? My yard is full of them and it would be great if I could use them for feeders for the gongylus too.


----------



## spawn

Don't spray the ooth directly.


----------



## Gurd

ABbuggin said:


> I know crickets are bad for the gongylus, but what about grasshoppers and locusts? My yard is full of them and it would be great if I could use them for feeders for the gongylus too.


Mine haven't seen food that doesn't fly since I've had them

I think the foam production is effected by a non-flying diet, I'm sure somebody will be 100% on it. Stefan ??


----------



## tier

Hi

In general Gongylus will not attack roaches, locusts and other matids. You need something that flutters. Fluttering insects like flies and bees, butterflies and moths etc. is fine.

Feeding crickets will kill the Gongylus and if it will not kill the Gongylus it will effect females ootheca production: No more ooths and a quick death of the female.

I spray the ooths directyl. The first misting sprays away the soft foam around the ooth. I clean the fresh ooth and spray away all soft foam.

regards

By the way: If an adult female has eaten some adult males, she will do fine. Males are no problem.

edit:

OMG, GURD! - I did not see the picture before! That is so great!!! I'm so happy with you. That looks like 300 more Gongylus in some weeks  That is so great!

regards


----------



## spawn

*I spray the ooths directyl. The first misting sprays away the soft foam around the ooth. I clean the fresh ooth and spray away all soft foam.*

Do you mean RIGHT after the ooth is laid? Because I thought if you spray an old ooth with water you run the risk of developing fungal growth and decay?


----------



## tier

spawn said:


> *I spray the ooths directyl. The first misting sprays away the soft foam around the ooth. I clean the fresh ooth and spray away all soft foam.*
> Do you mean RIGHT after the ooth is laid? Because I thought if you spray an old ooth with water you run the risk of developing fungal growth and decay?


Hi

No, not right after laying. Some days after laying up to ten days later. There will only be fungal growth if you do not ventilate the ooth. If you use a well ventilated box, there never will be fungi on an ooth. You have to make sure the ooth becomes dry again after spraying. If the ooth stays humid some days, there will be mold soon.

regards


----------



## ubb

one of my pairings


----------



## tier

OMG!

Looks my males doing great all over the world ;-)

I'm happy with you and love the picture.

Have fun with the new generation



regards and have a nice weekend,

tier


----------



## ubb

The female is yours no male  

thanks!

how much time I have to wait for the ooth?


----------



## tier

Hi

If the female is older than 14 days, you will get the first ooth tomorrow, I guarantee.

If she is younger, you have to wait till the 14th day of beeing adult.

Of course that is just working with high temperature and lot of food.

Regards


----------



## ubb

14th day just TODAY!

I have a little problem with the food I have no blue bottle fly I´ll have tomorrow I hope, but can I feed the female with a silkworm? or that's not a good idea?

best regards tier and thank you!!


----------



## tier

Hi

I never tryed that food for Gongylus and I never will try.

But there is no problem. Maybe you will have to wait 2-3 more days. No problem at all.

regards


----------



## ubb

OK thank you!


----------



## spawn

> QUOTE (spawn @ Apr 25 2008, 04:28 AM) I spray the ooths directyl. The first misting sprays away the soft foam around the ooth. I clean the fresh ooth and spray away all soft foam.
> 
> Do you mean RIGHT after the ooth is laid? Because I thought if you spray an old ooth with water you run the risk of developing fungal growth and decay?
> 
> Hi
> 
> No, not right after laying. Some days after laying up to ten days later. There will only be fungal growth if you do not ventilate the ooth. If you use a well ventilated box, there never will be fungi on an ooth. You have to make sure the ooth becomes dry again after spraying. If the ooth stays humid some days, there will be mold soon.
> 
> regards


Thanks for the clarification. Now I don't look like _as much_ of an idiot :wub:


----------



## ubb

another adult female.

Freshly molted


----------



## asdsdf

Congrats! Do you have an adult male ready?


----------



## ubb

yes I have some males ready.

regards!


----------



## Mantodeenforum

Here are 3 pics of my subadult female:
















Greetings Nico


----------



## tier

Hi Nico

As I told you on the windows messenger today, I just love these raptorial forelegs in your last picture.

I'm thinking of getting a similar teleconverter 

regards,

Stefan


----------



## Gurd

Nice pics, cool greeny tint to her


----------



## Mantodeenforum

Hey,

Thanks for the praise.

sorry Stefan, but this photos was taked without the teleconverter  

regards,

Nico


----------



## Gurd

Got home from my exam to find











Chuffed is an understatement


----------



## ABbuggin

Congrats Gurd! Didn't seem like they were to hard to breed.  

I cant wait to start breeding these guys, just as soon as I get an ooth that should arrive sometime soon. B)


----------



## bugzilla

Gurd said:


> Got home from my exam to find
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chuffed is an understatement


Congratulations   

What exams are you doing?


----------



## ABbuggin

I have a few ooths coming my way now.  I cant wait! :wub:


----------



## Kashmir79

i thoroughly enjoyed looking through this thread

i cant wait to get my 2 Violin mantids on tuesday  

what size do they get to roughly

Cheers

Ryan


----------



## Kruszakus

You guys have a picture of an adult female next to a ruler or something?


----------



## mrblue

when the females are alive and well fed, the abdomen extends out from under the wings for another 10mm or so.


----------



## Kruszakus

I was expecting them to be a bit bigger - 10 cm at least. Some claim their females were even up to 11 cm - well, I shall see how big mine will get.


----------



## The_Asa

It has come to my attention that they can reach 10 cm.


----------



## Kruszakus

Well, we have a lot of people who keep Gongy - maybe they could shed some light on this case.

By the way - what is the number of moltings with this species?


----------



## mrblue

Kruszakus said:


> Well, we have a lot of people who keep Gongy - maybe they could shed some light on this case.By the way - what is the number of moltings with this species?


the female next to the ruler is really old, i will see if any of my current batch are any bigger tomorrow. if they are it will probably be marginal.

as for moults, females moult 7 times, males moult 6 times.


----------



## ABbuggin

mrblue said:


> the female next to the ruler is really old, i will see if any of my current batch are any bigger tomorrow. if they are it will probably be marginal.as for moults, females moult 7 times, males moult 6 times.


That means I will have some sub-sub adults in just a few days!


----------



## ABbuggin

Kruszakus said:


> I was expecting them to be a bit bigger - 10 cm at least. Some claim their females were even up to 11 cm - well, I shall see how big mine will get.


It's always been to my knowledge that they reach 10 cm. I guess I'll find out soon enough.


----------



## Kruszakus

I already have L6 - they don't even look as big as I would expectthem to be.


----------



## tnienhaus

from what I've read (but i'm still a newbie) they're usually bigger....still beautiful though...good luck


----------



## Kruszakus

Guys - do you know how can I get my Gongylus to be dark-brown?


----------



## ABbuggin

Kruszakus said:


> Guys - do you know how can I get my Gongylus to be dark-brown?


I have a dark chocolate brown one.  I did this by keeping her is a darker colored environment with less light (but the same amount of heat as others)


----------



## Gurd

I have various colour morphs all except green for some reason  

I've not kept them any differently, 1 cage has a very very dark brown female that grew up with a very very light sandy coloured female  

I just hope I get a green morph from my 2nd generation


----------



## Kruszakus

I have 30 L1 nymphs I will keep for myself to have mating pairs around March - I hope to get some nice morphs too.

Come to think of it, the guy I visited lately had all of his females dark brown, almost black by keeping them in a darker side of the room, with a brown net inside the cage...

The only thing is that I have those 30 hungry nymphs, and my fruit fly colonies are basically done, I have to resort to a more specific approach... hard to believe how strong those little nymphs are


----------



## tier

Hi

I have all colours again this generation. In some weeks my 7th generation will hatch. This time I had no problems with mating them, so luckyly I have 9 mated females now, and I look forward to mate the 7 females who are not yet mated, too. This shouldn't be a problem because alot of males are still alive and I have some subadult males, too.

I am really happy, I never had as much mated females in my last 6 generations 

In the same enclosure I have light and dark beige, light, dark and red-brown, almost black, and light- and dark green 

The most rare colour over here is the dark brown/ black colour. A lot of the females are green.

Best regards,

Gongylus breeding group


----------



## Kruszakus

Well, then get a good camera and take soe pics for us  

I exchanged what little pairs I had for 30 nymphs to restart the colony for the next warm season - I will experiment with the brightness of light and the color of the setting in the enclosure, maybe I will get some new colors.

I had tremendous troubles in the previous attemt, and this time I started off bad - 30 L1 nymphs and no fruit flies since last Sunday... kinda spooky what a hungry L1 can do.


----------



## tier

Hi

I have an interesting coloured male. Its very dark, but the neck and especially upper parts of legs are white-green.






regards


----------



## Katnapper

Wow... extremely beautiful and interesting, Tier! Is there just the one with this coloration?


----------



## tier

Katnapper said:


> Wow... extremely beautiful and interesting, Tier! Is there just the one with this coloration?


Hi

Yes, there is just this one and only. In some years breedings this species, I have seen thousands of Gongylus, but never one like this.

regards


----------



## Gurd

Very neat colour morph mate B) 

I would say I've seen 100's and not seen 1 that colour morph. Saying that I ain't had a green morph yet either  , guess its a humidity level thing


----------

