# Pretty upset over this



## brancsikia339 (Mar 18, 2012)

http://www.chameleonforums.com/praying-mantis-4713/

I can't believe people do this. Unbelievable.


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## Bryce08 (Mar 18, 2012)

Interesting...I mean it does suck with all of us loving mantids so much....but it is the circle of life, then again I only feed them not to waste when they are about to die...I wouldnt buy to feed....plus expensive feeders I would think
 
.....mantisplace is rebeccas site


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## agent A (Mar 18, 2012)

it's not like that doesnt happen in the wild

if i have a bad mismolt it goes either to another mantis or a toad, and if eaten by a toad, the digestive enzymes work fast and it doesnt suffer


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## gripen (Mar 18, 2012)

brancsikia339 said:


> http://www.chameleonforums.com/praying-mantis-4713/
> 
> I can't believe people do this. Unbelievable.


Trust me there is more where that came from on that forum. I think it is wrong for people to hatch mantids as feeders to feed off at L1.


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## Ruaumoko (Mar 18, 2012)

4years late but oh well


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## hibiscusmile (Mar 18, 2012)

I just had a close call with someone who wanted to hatch mantis to feed off, she has been nothing but trouble from day one.


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## gripen (Mar 18, 2012)

Ruaumoko said:


> 4years late but oh well


It's the thought that counts...


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## CoolMantid (Mar 18, 2012)

I just hate this. I found a guy at a pet shop with a mantis ooth in a cup labeled Feeders for sale when they hatch. Of course I bought the ooth but he seemed like he had more in the back.


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## azn567 (Mar 18, 2012)

Many of us here raise and breed roaches for the purpose of feeding to our mantids, but there are also plenty of people who raise those same roaches as pets. How are we any different than the chameleon people you are upset about?


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## angelofdeathzz (Mar 18, 2012)

The way I see it: "Everything Eats and Everything Dies" if you think about it everything is born dieing, some people love crickets but their food, some people love roaches but their food also, not that I like the Idea of feeding mantis to charms but they are higher up on the scale of life.

And posts like this are why the people on the chameleon forum think we're soft and wimpy bug keepers, lol. :lol: 

That said, I see your concern, but thats life like it or not...


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## brancsikia339 (Mar 18, 2012)

gripen said:


> It's the thought that counts...


Thanks gripen. Just really upset that someone would feed baby mantids to their lizard


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## bobericc (Mar 18, 2012)

Mantis are rewarding to raise so I really wouldn't see the sense in feeding off something you fed to a feedable size..

Hatching ooth to feed off l1 is REALLY	wasteful and distasteful..

I know a couple adult mantids that wouldn't mind eating baby cham either lol

and the world turns


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## lunarstorm (Mar 18, 2012)

Getting concerned over a thread on a different messageboard from 2007 seems a bit strange, but maybe that's just me.


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## hibiscusmile (Mar 18, 2012)

wordy! just reading it makes it seem like today though!


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## brancsikia339 (Mar 18, 2012)

lunarstorm said:


> Getting concerned over a thread on a different messageboard from 2007 seems a bit strange, but maybe that's just me.


Well I found it today. If I find a more recent one I'll post it here


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## Bryce08 (Mar 18, 2012)

bobericc said:


> I know a couple adult mantids that wouldn't mind eating baby cham either lol
> 
> and the world turns


I LIKE THAT


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## Myrmecologist2 (Apr 10, 2012)

I don't see what the problem is here. Hatching ooths and feeding off at L1 would seem fine to do for baby chams, as an occasional treat, variety is the key with many pets. There's not a lot of labor involed with it considering you keep the ooth in a container at room temp and mist is twice a week or so. Course, if you're actually going to raise the mantids, and if they're anything besides chinese mantids, it's just not worth it and you'd be better of raising them as pets. Opinions vary and when one of these cham hobbyists finds a wild mantis which one of us would consider a great find, it's just another possible feeder to them. It's the way of life I guess. Kinda like when I raised my chickens, I love them dearly but everyone always asks why I don't just eat them. Some things are just food.


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## gripen (Apr 10, 2012)

Myrmecologist2 said:


> I don't see what the problem is here. Hatching ooths and feeding off at L1 would seem fine to do for baby chams, as an occasional treat, variety is the key with many pets. There's not a lot of labor involed with it considering you keep the ooth in a container at room temp and mist is twice a week or so. Course, if you're actually going to raise the mantids, and if they're anything besides chinese mantids, it's just not worth it and you'd be better of raising them as pets. Opinions vary and when one of these cham hobbyists finds a wild mantis which one of us would consider a great find, it's just another possible feeder to them. It's the way of life I guess. Kinda like when I raised my chickens, I love them dearly but everyone always asks why I don't just eat them. Some things are just food.


still not worth it for me. Pin heads are so much easier. Besides feeding off mantids would not vary the chams diet. Think about it.


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## Myrmecologist2 (Apr 10, 2012)

gripen said:


> still not worth it for me. Pin heads are so much easier. Besides feeding off mantids would not vary the chams diet. Think about it.


They would, why wouldn't they? Chams can get bored with certain foods so it can at least help with that. I've been around chameleons but I don't own one, I don't see why I would ever raise mantids for my own chams considering I had any, I'd more than likely raise them for me alone just like I would any other mantis, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. They are just insects after all, and they are often prey for wild chameleons.


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## gripen (Apr 10, 2012)

Well for variety my cat loves chams. He just cant get enough of pygmys. He gets bored of mice and cat food. I thought I would vary his diet a bit.


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## agent A (Apr 10, 2012)

gripen said:


> Well for variety my cat loves chams. He just cant get enough of pygmys. He gets bored of mice and cat food. I thought I would vary his diet a bit.


U have a cat??  

Thing is, how nutritious is a thin, newly hatched tenodera that hasn't even eaten yet?


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## Myrmecologist2 (Apr 10, 2012)

gripen said:


> Well for variety my cat loves chams. He just cant get enough of pygmys. He gets bored of mice and cat food. I thought I would vary his diet a bit.


If only pygmy chams were as common as the brown anoles around here, I'm sure that would be fine. I feed anoles to my chickens all the time.

But do you see the problem in your logic here? A single pygmy - 30$+ OR A couple hundred mantids 4$-5$ from the local hardware store, or free if you can find them. Feeding mantids to chams is not bad at all, it's just comes down to personal opinions and whether it is financially logical.


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## Myrmecologist2 (Apr 10, 2012)

agent A said:


> U have a cat??
> 
> Thing is, how nutritious is a thin, newly hatched tenodera that hasn't even eaten yet?


Probably not very, but there's definately some nutrition in there or else the mantid wouldn't be walking. It's crazy if you actually want them to make up more than 1% of a chameleons diet, but a single brood of nymphs is just fine for the sake of variety, personal enjoyment, something different, or just the random oppurtinity presneting itself in the form of you happening upon a cheap ooth at your local hardware store with a spare 5$ bill you wouldn't mind sacrificing.


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## gripen (Apr 10, 2012)

Myrmecologist2 said:


> If only pygmy chams were as common as the brown anoles around here, I'm sure that would be fine. I feed anoles to my chickens all the time.
> 
> But do you see the problem in your logic here? A single pygmy - 30$+ OR A couple hundred mantids 4$-5$ from the local hardware store, or free if you can find them. Feeding mantids to chams is not bad at all, it's just comes down to personal opinions and whether it is financially logical.


Really I import my chams real cheap. 1 buck an egg. My cat especially loves watching them hatch then gobbling them up.But lets get really here. Newly hatched tenodera have about as much nutritional value as a glass of water and whose to say a cham can tell the difference between a mantis and a cricket. All it comes down to is weather or not a cham breeder likes to see a cham tackle a mantis or not.


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## Myrmecologist2 (Apr 10, 2012)

gripen said:


> Really I import my chams real cheap. 1 buck an egg. My cat especially loves watching them hatch then gobbling them up.
> 
> But lets get really here. Newly hatched tenodera have about as much nutritional value as a glass of water and whose to say a cham can tell the difference between a mantis and a cricket. All it comes down to is weather or not a cham breeder likes to see a cham tackle a mantis or not.


Until a study is actually done on newly hatched tenodera nutrition (Like that'll happen) you really can't say much, but you do have a point. You really can't compare using T. sinesis nymphs as feeders to using chams as feeders. As far as you importing pygmies goes, I'd like to buy some eggs off you!


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## gripen (Apr 10, 2012)

Myrmecologist2 said:


> Until a study is actually done on newly hatched tenodera nutrition (Like that'll happen)


(cracks knuckles) I better get to work than...


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## patrickfraser (Apr 10, 2012)

I started with mantids and then got a pair of veiled chams. They are excellent mantis disposers. Sometimes there are mismolts or numbers need thinning. My goal with mantis is to keep each species for as many generations as I can. It's not like I raise them for the chams, but i have them, so why not? Did you happen to catch my post of feeding an orchid mantis to my chameleon? http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=24492&amp;st=0&amp;p=190564&amp;hl=+chameleon%20+orchid&amp;fromsearch=1entry190564


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## massaman (Apr 11, 2012)

could be worse where I had seen in the past posts of people feeding pinkies to a mantis but its a different subject but thought I would just mention it!


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## rs4guy (Apr 11, 2012)

I feed freshly hatched chams to my mantids, is that wrong?


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## massaman (Apr 11, 2012)

Maybe you should of sold the chams maybe instead of wasting them like that but thats just my opinion and to each their own and it is what it is!


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## Myrmecologist2 (Apr 11, 2012)

rs4guy said:


> I feed freshly hatched chams to my mantids, is that wrong?


Nope, it's only wrong because you're wasting your own money lol. Not our problem though.


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## rs4guy (Apr 11, 2012)

Haha i was only kidding, love the reactions though!


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## Myrmecologist2 (Apr 11, 2012)

rs4guy said:


> Haha i was only kidding, love the reactions though!


I know, sarcasim is hard to notice over the internet.


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## massaman (Apr 11, 2012)

you know you may be kidding but some people such as myself do not like sarcasm as it is almost like the boy crying wolf and no one believed him once the wolf really was seen and alot of people get pissed off when being put into sarcasm situations and I am one of those!


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## gripen (Apr 11, 2012)

massaman said:


> you know you may be kidding but some people such as myself do not like sarcasm as it is almost like the boy crying wolf and no one believed him once the wolf really was seen and alot of people get pissed off when being put into sarcasm situations and I am one of those!


Live a little (just kidding).I know what you mean though it can be annoying at times but it usually helps diffuse the situation in my opinion.


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## Orin (Apr 12, 2012)

I found out millions of tiny animals are killed every time a person swallows. :teardrop:


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## rs4guy (Apr 12, 2012)

massaman said:


> you know you may be kidding but some people such as myself do not like sarcasm as it is almost like the boy crying wolf and no one believed him once the wolf really was seen and alot of people get pissed off when being put into sarcasm situations and I am one of those!


 :sweatdrop:


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## Orin (Apr 12, 2012)

I was out mowing today and I hit a small snake. I see snakes when I mow but that's the first time I ever hit one in a patch of grass, though I did take out a frog last summer. I'm not a huge fan of snakes but I was pretty sad for a spot. I've seen a lot of dead snakes in my neighbor's yard as he doesn't like them and kills them whenever he sees them (we are allowed to kill snakes in my state and detroy their habitat, it's only illegal to keep them as pets without permits) but it's a whole different story when I'm the accidental culprit.


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## warpdrive (Apr 12, 2012)

Wow, I'm glad i was at work today.

Harry


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