# My new babies ;)



## sbugir

I went to my local Reptile store, and they buy and trade animals, cages, accessories, etc. So I decided to call up and bring in some nymphs. I traded in 50 Chinese and 25 Egyptian nymphs for these fellas. Pretty good considering I didn't have to pay a cent, and the mantids needed a home. He also gave me 100 crix for free and a 10lb bag of sand.

Anyway here's what I'm talking about  

This is "Nullah":







This is her after snacking on a cricket. She's also on Leopold (yes another South Park reference  )






Showdown:






Mmm, collars greens, mustard greens, carrots, peppers, and apples!






Love my beardies


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## sbugir

They're sitting under 75 watt UVA and a 23 watt UVB. I'm eventually going to switch the substrate, as sand can cause impaction. Still, sand is a better insulator then newspaper -.-, plus it was free  .


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## Rick

lemmiwinks said:


> They're sitting under 75 watt UVA and a 23 watt UVB. I'm eventually going to switch the substrate, as sand can cause impaction. Still, sand is a better insulator then newspaper -.-, plus it was free  .


Use play sand or pool sand. Are they beardies?


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## sbugir

Rick said:


> Use play sand or pool sand. Are they beardies?


Yes sir. $60 ea here in CO, gave 75 nymphs, good trade if you ask me  . Yeah I'll eventually switch to something else. I'm not too worried about impaction due to the UVB lighting. Obviously they'll eat some sand when they eat crix, but either way they eat sand.


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## Rick

lemmiwinks said:


> Yes sir. $60 ea here in CO, gave 75 nymphs, good trade if you ask me  . Yeah I'll eventually switch to something else. I'm not too worried about impaction due to the UVB lighting. Obviously they'll eat some sand when they eat crix, but either way they eat sand.


Lighting would have nothing to do with impaction. Not sure what kind of sand you have there but I use play sand for my uromastyx. The way it is made prevents it from causing impaction. What kind of lights are you using? I have a 160 w Powersun mercury vapor and a regular halogen for some extra heat.

Here is a site I think you will like: http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html


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## sbugir

Rick said:


> Lighting would have nothing to do with impaction. Not sure what kind of sand you have there but I use play sand for my uromastyx. The way it is made prevents it from causing impaction. What kind of lights are you using? I have a 160 w Powersun mercury vapor and a regular halogen for some extra heat. Here is a site I think you will like: http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html


I've been using that site  .

I though UVB would have something to do w/ impaction. Typically lizards get Vitamin D(3?) from the Sun, in this case UVB. Vitamin D(3?) I believe helps calcium absorption and bone development? The majority of lizards get "impacted" by eating sand because they need, and sand typically has a high amount of, calcium. Lizards don't digest calcium well, therefore they get impacted from the amount they eat. So the UVB helps them in receiving the calcium they need, and this would prevent them eating sand for no apparent reason. That's what I thought anyway. Either way, I'll be changing the substrate eventually.

If I do catch the little buggers eating sand for no apparent reason, I'll put newspaper on it faster then they can catch a cricket. :lol: 

BTW, my lights are:

75 watt Halogen

and something like a 23-5 watt fluorescent UVB. It's ######, and I'll eventually switch it. But it gets the job done. I used it for previous lizards, but I think it's time to upgrade when I get a bit more mullah. Or maybe I'll trade some nymphs for a new lamp when my nebulosas and virescens hatch


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## Katnapper

Good deal...


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## sbugir

Katnapper said:


> Good deal...


Yeah I thought so too. My sister was so happy to see them. Perked her up from when our corn snake died.


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## Rick

lemmiwinks said:


> I've been using that site  . I though UVB would have something to do w/ impaction. Typically lizards get Vitamin D(3?) from the Sun, in this case UVB. Vitamin D(3?) I believe helps calcium absorption and bone development? The majority of lizards get "impacted" by eating sand because they need, and sand typically has a high amount of, calcium. Lizards don't digest calcium well, therefore they get impacted from the amount they eat. So the UVB helps them in receiving the calcium they need, and this would prevent them eating sand for no apparent reason. That's what I thought anyway. Either way, I'll be changing the substrate eventually.
> 
> If I do catch the little buggers eating sand for no apparent reason, I'll put newspaper on it faster then they can catch a cricket. :lol:
> 
> BTW, my lights are:
> 
> 75 watt Halogen
> 
> and something like a 23-5 watt fluorescent UVB. It's ######, and I'll eventually switch it. But it gets the job done. I used it for previous lizards, but I think it's time to upgrade when I get a bit more mullah. Or maybe I'll trade some nymphs for a new lamp when my nebulosas and virescens hatch


I've never heard that. They generally ingest the sand while eating their food. You're right on the light being needed. Many people get lighting wrong and it is important for many reptiles.


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## sbugir

Rick said:


> I've never heard that. They generally ingest the sand while eating their food. You're right on the light being needed. Many people get lighting wrong and it is important for many reptiles.


Yeah, I don't know, it sounded a lot better in my head then writing. But it does somewhat make sense I suppose.

Yeah, lighing is very important, unfortunately though, between my mantids heat lamp and now my beardies it's about 100+ degrees in my room  . Thank god the beardies or mantids don't need the light at night


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## Rick

lemmiwinks said:


> Yeah, I don't know, it sounded a lot better in my head then writing. But it does somewhat make sense I suppose. Yeah, lighing is very important, unfortunately though, between my mantids heat lamp and now my beardies it's about 100+ degrees in my room  . Thank god the beardies or mantids don't need the light at night


My uro sits on the bottom of the wire sheving unit with the mantids above him. All of the excess heat rises which warms the mantids. I like the arrangement for that reason alone.


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## sbugir

Rick said:


> My uro sits on the bottom of the wire sheving unit with the mantids above him. All of the excess heat rises which warms the mantids. I like the arrangement for that reason alone.


Smart. I have barely any space in my room. I'll hopefully be buying some of those buildable shelves, so I can place my mantids there. Hopefully I'll clear up some of my desk haha.

Btw, how old is your uro?


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## Rick

lemmiwinks said:


> Smart. I have barely any space in my room. I'll hopefully be buying some of those buildable shelves, so I can place my mantids there. Hopefully I'll clear up some of my desk haha.Btw, how old is your uro?


I've had him about four years so he is about five or so. He was juvenile when I got him.


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## sbugir

Rick said:


> I've had him about four years so he is about five or so. He was juvenile when I got him.


Very cool. They're bloody expensive. At least here anyway.


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## hibiscusmile

Sweet Deal!


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## Rick

lemmiwinks said:


> Very cool. They're bloody expensive. At least here anyway.


Got mine from Deer Fern Farms. I did pay about $100.


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## sbugir

Rick said:


> Got mine from Deer Fern Farms. I did pay about $100.


Good deal, I won't say how much they are here.


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## Rick

lemmiwinks said:


> Good deal, I won't say how much they are here.


Local pet store or something? I am curious. I see them pretty cheap at reptile expos.


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## sbugir

Rick said:


> Local pet store or something? I am curious. I see them pretty cheap at reptile expos.


Yeah, at the rep store where I got these beardies, the uros were around the $200 mark.

I'd like to go to a rep expo someday. Do they sell inverts there as well?


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## Rick

lemmiwinks said:


> Yeah, at the rep store where I got these beardies, the uros were around the $200 mark. I'd like to go to a rep expo someday. Do they sell inverts there as well?


Wow. I haven't really seen any around here at the shows. I was surprised to hear you were able to trade mantids for those beardies.


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## sbugir

Rick said:


> Wow. I haven't really seen any around here at the shows. I was surprised to hear you were able to trade mantids for those beardies.


So was I. He seemed very interested. I'm just glad I gave those mantids a home lol.


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## wero626

Wow they look great and wow thats a great deal 75 nymohs for 2 dragons  wish they would trade over in pet stores but nopey....Those are some cool bearded dragons though i remember when mine was that small know hes a giant but i wanted to let you know that sands really not good for them my pet store guy told me that they cant digest the sand if they accidentaly eat it just thought you should know...I use the pellets like they use for turtles and it works great hes like in a 50 or 60 gallon tank and thats good you got a 75 watt lamp thats excatly what i have so your on a great start i hope they get big and healty =]


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## Rick

reptileman said:


> Wow they look great and wow thats a great deal 75 nymohs for 2 dragons  wish they would trade over in pet stores but nopey....Those are some cool bearded dragons though i remember when mine was that small know hes a giant but i wanted to let you know that sands really not good for them my pet store guy told me that they cant digest the sand if they accidentaly eat it just thought you should know...I use the pellets like they use for turtles and it works great hes like in a 50 or 60 gallon tank and thats good you got a 75 watt lamp thats excatly what i have so your on a great start i hope they get big and healty =]


Sand isn't the issue. It is the kind of sand that is the issue. Sand like play sand cannot interlock like regular sand can. That is where the danger lies. What are these pellets you speak of? I specialize in turtles and I am not sure what pellets you're talking about. I can't think of any that I would recommend for any turtle.


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## sbugir

Rick said:


> Sand isn't the issue. It is the kind of sand that is the issue. Sand like play sand cannot interlock like regular sand can. That is where the danger lies. What are these pellets you speak of? I specialize in turtles and I am not sure what pellets you're talking about. I can't think of any that I would recommend for any turtle.


I think Reptileman is talking about rabbit pellets (the bedding). I've seen rabbit pellets used for reptiles. I will be switching the sand. I need a place to buy some sand, Hardware stores typically sell play send no?


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## wero626

lemmiwinks said:


> I think Reptileman is talking about rabbit pellets (the bedding). I've seen rabbit pellets used for reptiles. I will be switching the sand. I need a place to buy some sand, Hardware stores typically sell play send no?


Yeah your hundred percent right thats what i meant about the pellets and its worked out great so far hes getting huge feeding on big mice trying to get him to eat rats but the sand is something i heard about from various pet stores..They could be wrong but i dont want to take no chance with spike...Man Lemmiwinks you must be so happy about those two beautties =] was the pet store guy happy with the mantids?...And does he sell them or just as pets?


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## sbugir

reptileman said:


> Yeah your hundred percent right thats what i meant about the pellets and its worked out great so far hes getting huge feeding on big mice trying to get him to eat rats but the sand is something i heard about from various pet stores..They could be wrong but i dont want to take no chance with spike...Man Lemmiwinks you must be so happy about those two beautties =] was the pet store guy happy with the mantids?...And does he sell them or just as pets?


Yeah, aren't mice too fatty for them? Yeah, I'm so happy haha! He sells the mantids, it's where I got my first chinese nymph...for $5... still I never knew there were sites like this lol. I miss that nymph  . But yeah, I'll be switching the substrate soon. I'm not too worried as I typically feed them in a different container.


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## Rick

lemmiwinks said:


> Yeah, aren't mice too fatty for them? Yeah, I'm so happy haha! He sells the mantids, it's where I got my first chinese nymph...for $5... still I never knew there were sites like this lol. I miss that nymph  . But yeah, I'll be switching the substrate soon. I'm not too worried as I typically feed them in a different container.


Neither of you should get care advice from a pet store. Vast majority of them have no clue. You can get the play sand at lowes or home depot. Make sure it says play sand. That will not cause impaction. Pool sand also works and has an attractive color to it. Avoid any pet store sand or calci sand.

Not sure what he mean't about the mice. I wouldn't feed them as a staple to either a beardy or a turtle.


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## sbugir

Rick said:


> Neither of you should get care advice from a pet store. Vast majority of them have no clue. You can get the play sand at lowes or home depot. Make sure it says play sand. That will not cause impaction. Pool sand also works and has an attractive color to it. Avoid any pet store sand or calci sand. Not sure what he mean't about the mice. I wouldn't feed them as a staple to either a beardy or a turtle.


Yeah, pet store advice does suck. Although my Rep Specialist store manager is actually decent in terms of advice. Obviously he has no clue in terms of trading though    . I'll be getting play sand soon. I've been feeding them separately out of the sand tank to avoid impaction. Greens however are still fed in the tank on a paper towel or plate not touching the sand.

Rick, typically how much is play sand? And I'll pick some up tomorrow after I get Rep Vitamins/Calcium. Any suggestions which brand? They say a 100:10:1 Vitamin ratio is good for beardies. That being D:E:A I believe. Apparently ZooMed Vitamins have a 600:1:1 ratio which is pretty dangerous according to the Beardie forum.


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## Rick

lemmiwinks said:


> Yeah, pet store advice does suck. Although my Rep Specialist store manager is actually decent in terms of advice. Obviously he has no clue in terms of trading though    . I'll be getting play sand soon. I've been feeding them separately out of the sand tank to avoid impaction. Greens however are still fed in the tank on a paper towel or plate not touching the sand. Rick, typically how much is play sand? And I'll pick some up tomorrow after I get Rep Vitamins/Calcium. Any suggestions which brand? They say a 100:10:1 Vitamin ratio is good for beardies. That being D:E:A I believe. Apparently ZooMed Vitamins have a 600:1:1 ratio which is pretty dangerous according to the Beardie forum.


Play sand is cheap. Few dollars for a fifty pound bag is what I recall. I use Minerall mixed 50/50 with bee pollen and reptivite. A mixture of rep cal and reptivite is also ok. Be sure to get a formula with D3 unless they will be exposed to sunlight. Sometimes it is called an indoor formula. I only dust my uros food once a week with the mixture but that is mainly because I have the good light that probably gives him most of what he needs. I still wouldn't dust it more than three times a week though.

Here is a good site for lighting: http://www.uvguide.co.uk/index.htm


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## sbugir

Rick said:


> Play sand is cheap. Few dollars for a fifty pound bag is what I recall. I use Minerall mixed 50/50 with bee pollen and reptivite. A mixture of rep cal and reptivite is also ok. Be sure to get a formula with D3 unless they will be exposed to sunlight. Sometimes it is called an indoor formula. I only dust my uros food once a week with the mixture but that is mainly because I have the good light that probably gives him most of what he needs. I still wouldn't dust it more than three times a week though.Here is a good site for lighting: http://www.uvguide.co.uk/index.htm


Thanks, the lighting I have down I think. Previous page I believe you asked me what lights I have lol. Good to hear about the sand and vitamins. Gotta find a place to keep 50lbs of sound lol  

I might just purchase some non-adhesive shelf liner as well. We'll see


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## Rick

lemmiwinks said:


> Thanks, the lighting I have down I think. Previous page I believe you asked me what lights I have lol. Good to hear about the sand and vitamins. Gotta find a place to keep 50lbs of sound lol  I might just purchase some non-adhesive shelf liner as well. We'll see


When I had leopard geckos I had slate tile cut to fit the bottom of the tank. That works well too. I use sand for my uro because they like to dig.


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## sbugir

Rick said:


> When I had leopard geckos I had slate tile cut to fit the bottom of the tank. That works well too. I use sand for my uro because they like to dig.


Wouldn't the slate be way too hot? (W/ a heat lamp of course  )


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## Rick

lemmiwinks said:


> Wouldn't the slate be way too hot? (W/ a heat lamp of course  )


It wasn't. Depends on the animal. The basking spot for my uro is 130+ degrees. They love it very hot. Not sure what temps for beardies are though off the top of my head.


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## sbugir

Rick said:


> It wasn't. Depends on the animal. The basking spot for my uro is 130+ degrees. They love it very hot. Not sure what temps for beardies are though off the top of my head.


Ahh, beardies are about 115 max.


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## Davedood

lemmiwinks said:


> Ahh, beardies are about 115 max.


I have about 30 Red/Orange/Yellow baby bearded dragon babbies. I got about 100 deg for the basking spot while they are very small, when older and larger I got about 115-120. I have used sand however, I highly recomend using Wheat Bran. It's very cheap and clumps up well when they poop. It has no impaction risks at all. (Also great with keeping superworms in). In the long run the best bulb you can get for them is Mercury Vapor. I'd wait till they get a little bigger. They have 100 watt mercury vapor bulbs but you need abit larger cage when using them, so the whole cage doesn't get too hot. should have the oposite end of the cage in the 80's for thermal regulation. I feed mine collard greens and yellow squash (shredded). I also keep Frilled dragons, Green Basilisks, water dragons, Crested gecko's and tree frogs.

Dave


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## Davedood

Forgot to say that Mercury Vapor bulbs provide the best amount of UVB/UVA and heat all in 1 bulb. It's nice cause it eliminates having to use two bulbs for UVA and UVB.


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## sbugir

Davedood said:


> I have about 30 Red/Orange/Yellow baby bearded dragon babbies. I got about 100 deg for the basking spot while they are very small, when older and larger I got about 115-120. I have used sand however, I highly recomend using Wheat Bran. It's very cheap and clumps up well when they poop. It has no impaction risks at all. (Also great with keeping superworms in). In the long run the best bulb you can get for them is Mercury Vapor. I'd wait till they get a little bigger. They have 100 watt mercury vapor bulbs but you need abit larger cage when using them, so the whole cage doesn't get too hot. should have the oposite end of the cage in the 80's for thermal regulation. I feed mine collard greens and yellow squash (shredded). I also keep Frilled dragons, Green Basilisks, water dragons, Crested gecko's and tree frogs.Dave


Hey Dave,

I spoke to you about your frilleds  . (Very nice Youtube vids btw)

Wheat bran is actually a great idea, except doesn't it have a high fiber and phosphorus content? I'll be getting a new bulb eventually, but I think they'll be alright for now.


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## sbugir

Well I switched to play sand sifted 3 times... hard work lol. Will see how it goes. I'm worried about one of them. He hasn't eaten for over 5 days hopefully it's still just stress :S


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## Rick

lemmiwinks said:


> Well I switched to play sand sifted 3 times... hard work lol. Will see how it goes. I'm worried about one of them. He hasn't eaten for over 5 days hopefully it's still just stress :S


You didn't need to sift it silly. :lol: He is right on the mv bulb. I have powersun but really wanted the Mega Ray but nobody had them. They are pricey but good, and they last a long time.


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## sbugir

Rick said:


> You didn't need to sift it silly. :lol: He is right on the mv bulb. I have powersun but really wanted the Mega Ray but nobody had them. They are pricey but good, and they last a long time.


Oh...there were huge chunks so I sifted as much as I could lol.

Unfortunately one died, or looks to be dead  . Either stress or just lack of appetite. Fortunately I called up the guy who I traded, and he said "we can work something out". So we'll see.

Overall the over beardie seems much happier, I'm assuming its because of the new subtrate and not her dead friend &lt;_&lt; .


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## MantidLord

Wow, you got those for a steal! I wish I had a store around here to trade with (especially mantids for herps). Sorry about the dead/dying beardie. I hope you can get another one and that they are okay. Congrats too.


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## sbugir

Great steal? I thought so myself  I went in today and they gave me a new beardie without hesitation.


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## MikhailsDinos

Nice trade!

I do trades like this with my local reptile store too and get all types of great stuff for trading my mantis and geckos.


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## sbugir

MikhailsDinos said:


> Nice trade!I do trades like this with my local reptile store too and get all types of great stuff for trading my mantis and geckos.


Thanks! I plan on doing it again when my flower mantids hatch -.-


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## myles

great deal  cute lil beardies B)


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