# not looking good



## macro junkie (Jun 3, 2008)

all 5 males have shed to adult..and my females shed to pre subadult last week..not looking good   

i remember rick saying you dont need to slow down the males.well i didnt.now look.2 sheds in front..Does any one know if i can get the females shed to adult with in 1 month if i power feed them "yen style"


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## macro junkie (Jun 3, 2008)

what do u think rob..sub or pre subadult..im gueesing presubadult?


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## macro junkie (Jun 3, 2008)




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## mantidsandgeckos (Jun 4, 2008)

looks subadult to me! :lol: .But not so sure...


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## Pelle (Jun 4, 2008)

The wingbuds of my subadult female looks a little bit bigger.

So I think one more shed to subadult ?


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## Rick (Jun 4, 2008)

It will be fine! Feed the males only a few times a week but feed your females heavily daily. The males live a long time.


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## bugzilla (Jun 4, 2008)

Looks like sub-adult to me. How big are they? If they're about half the size of an adult then they are sub.


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## macro junkie (Jun 4, 2008)

Rick said:


> It will be fine! Feed the males only a few times a week but feed your females heavily daily. The males live a long time.


ok rick..il let u know how i get on in a few weeks


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## macro junkie (Jun 4, 2008)

bugzilla said:


> Looks like sub-adult to me. How big are they? If they're about half the size of an adult then they are sub.


i think there pre sub.hows the female u have..did u mate them again?i think u should!


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## idolomantis (Jun 4, 2008)

it sorta comes down on: overfeed female, underfeed male. :lol:


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## Morpheus uk (Jun 5, 2008)

Everywhere ive read about them the number one rule with these is to cool the male and they have short lifespans


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## macro junkie (Jun 5, 2008)

Morpheus uk said:


> Everywhere ive read about them the number one rule with these is to cool the male and they have short lifespans


yer i was being slack..by the time i separated the males there where all sub adult.


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## OGIGA (Jun 6, 2008)

I vote for subsubadult.


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## Rob Byatt (Jun 6, 2008)

The female pictured has two moults left before it matures.

It is possible to get the femles ready for mating at this VERY late stage, but you will have to cool the males down (I'm sure we talked about this  ).

Regardless of what anyone else says, if you want to breed _Hymenopus_ then you must pick out the males at 3rd-4th instar to be sure of getting them adult within an acceptable time frame.

Scott - you need to cool the males down to 65-70F and feed only once a week.

Expect to get 3-4 months out of the males, so not a long lived adult.

Rob


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## macro junkie (Jun 6, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


> The female pictured has two moults left before it matures. It is possible to get the femles ready for mating at this VERY late stage, but you will have to cool the males down (I'm sure we talked about this  ).
> 
> Regardless of what anyone else says, if you want to breed _Hymenopus_ then you must pick out the males at 3rd-4th instar to be sure of getting them adult within an acceptable time frame.
> 
> ...


im cooling the males off now..when u said to cool them off i did it rob..but by that time it was to late but yer im stil cooling them off and feeding them like you said.im over feeding the females..look like there going to pop..update coming soon.


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## OGIGA (Jun 7, 2008)

I guess if you want to warm up the females, that would get them to mature faster. Just try not to cook them, you know?


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## darkspeed (Jun 7, 2008)

Since I am down to only three and still unable to properly determine their sex, my chances of breeding are pretty slim... but it is strange. they all started out the same size being from the same clutch and all, and have been kept under identical conditions. However the three that remain are all at different instars, one being quite a bit larger than the other two and one being tiny in comparison. Otherwise they are all three identical in every way. Are these size differences normal, and possibly a way of telling whether or not one of them differ sexually from the others?


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## OGIGA (Jun 7, 2008)

They all look female to me. Not sure why some are so far behind and some are ahead...


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## Rick (Jun 8, 2008)

For nymphs just look at the segments on the abdomen. It is posisble the smaller ones are males.


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## macro junkie (Jun 8, 2008)

a pic i took last week before the male shed to adult


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## darkspeed (Jun 9, 2008)

Did the male always have the brown shoulder strap or was it green at some point?


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## macro junkie (Jun 9, 2008)

DARKSPEED said:


> Did the male always have the brown shoulder strap or was it green at some point?


not sure..its pink not brown.


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## darkspeed (Jun 9, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> not sure..its pink not brown.


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## macro junkie (Jun 9, 2008)

DARKSPEED said:


>


maybe it was brown..from the edges on the pic it looks pink..i cant check now as there adult and i forgot what colour it was when it was sub :lol:


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## macro junkie (Jun 10, 2008)

good news..1 of the females shed to sub adult today


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## Rick (Jun 10, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> good news..1 of the females shed to sub adult today


Like I said you're good to go. The males live a long time.


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## macro junkie (Jun 10, 2008)

Rick said:


> Like I said you're good to go. The males live a long time.


 B)


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## macro junkie (Jun 11, 2008)

another female shed to subadult today.just 1 more to go now.


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## Rob Byatt (Jun 11, 2008)

Rick said:


> Like I said you're good to go. The males live a long time.


Rick, I'm interested to know how old the males you have had live to on average ?


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## Rick (Jun 11, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


> Rick, I'm interested to know how old the males you have had live to on average ?


You know Rob I wish I had kept track. I never really keep track of life spans. I have also not had these in awhile. I do know that the males would mature much sooner than the females but the males would still be very active when it came time to mate with the females. I would say if memory serves my correctly that the males would go at LEAST six months.


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## macro junkie (Jun 13, 2008)

i received my adult female today from bugzilla.its mine which i reared from a nymph..i sent it to him but because he only has 1 male and i now has 5 adult males it was safer for me to try with it.i put her in front of my male soon as he saw her he mounted here...for the last 4 hours hes been mounted on the back of her but she keeps on flapping her wings to try and get him off..but hes not giving up that easy.hes locked on there like glue.its so funny watching him hanging on for dear life while flapping her wings as fast as she can..lol..Shes calmed down for now and as i look to my left i see the male trying to connect..so fingers crossed..Shes very egg bound..been adult for about 5 months and hasnt laid 1 ooth so i havent got much hope but im sure its worth a try.


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## hibiscusmile (Jun 13, 2008)

I have put my male on the female and he is so tickled, and a dummy too. He keeps flapping his wings, if she did not know he was there, she does now. ha ha ha, seems like it is working, pray for ooths now! The other female won't have it, she has a bad wing and for some reason they are not mating with her. Has anyone experienced this before?


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## Rob Byatt (Jun 13, 2008)

Scott,

if they copulate, feed her until she'll eat no more and then put her on a plant that you've sprayed with water. Do this in the evning and you may have an ootheca by morning  I want a tenner for that


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## Rick (Jun 13, 2008)

I've had the male sit there for hours before actually attempting to connect with her.


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## macro junkie (Jun 14, 2008)

it took about 11 hours before they connected..there still at it now..


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## bugzilla (Jun 14, 2008)

Good to see them at it  

My male is still on the female 6 days on, connected probably 5 times a day but still no ooth &lt;_&lt; . And she's eating like a horse :huh:


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## macro junkie (Jun 14, 2008)

bugzilla said:


> Good to see them at it  My male is still on the female 6 days on, connected probably 5 times a day but still no ooth &lt;_&lt; . And she's eating like a horse :huh:


sorted..my male connected for about 4 or 5hours..they disconnected about 4 hous ago and hes still on her..  ..soon as he getsoff il feed her a bit more then do what rob suggested..i havent got a 10er for him tho..im poor


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## Rick (Jun 14, 2008)

You can just pull him off. Otherwise he may just sit there until he dies.


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## macro junkie (Jun 14, 2008)

Rick said:


> You can just pull him off. Otherwise he may just sit there until he dies.


but wont they mate again?


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## Morpheus uk (Jun 14, 2008)

Ive always read that males get off when their ready


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## OGIGA (Jun 14, 2008)

Hmm, Rick bred orchids before so maybe he knows that the female has already been fertilized.


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## Pelle (Jun 15, 2008)

I wonder if she will lay an ootheca after so long, but I hope it for you  

I had another hatch this morning


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## macro junkie (Jun 15, 2008)

Pelle said:


> I wonder if she will lay an ootheca after so long, but I hope it for you  I had another hatch this morning


show off


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## macro junkie (Jun 15, 2008)

i managed to set up a better shot.hope you like.


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## macro junkie (Jun 15, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> show off


wow u got loads from 1 ooth..looks like over 60?


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## Pelle (Jun 16, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> show off


Haha  



macro junkie said:


> wow u got loads from 1 ooth..looks like over 60?


I counted them yesterday, between 100 and 110

And the next ootheca is 1 cm bigger


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## macro junkie (Jun 16, 2008)

Pelle said:


> Haha  I counted them yesterday, between 100 and 110
> 
> And the next ootheca is 1 cm bigger


dam your good


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## Pelle (Jun 16, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> dam your good


Hehe, I didn't make the ootheca


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## macro junkie (Jun 25, 2008)

subadult female mayby 10-14 days to go to adult?


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## idolomantis (Jun 25, 2008)

Pelle said:


> Hehe, I didn't make the ootheca


haha rofl :lol:


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## macro junkie (Jul 1, 2008)

UPDATE

1 of the females shed to adult..3 hours before she shed her back legs wouldnt grip..any way i just woke up to find the female shed to adult but al the wings and her arms are twisted.GUTTED!!! Im just glad i have 2 more which are 1 or 2 days away from shedding.fingers corssed they both make it ok.

all 5 adult males are still healthy

and adult female i mated and has been egg bound for months stil hasnt laid an ooth..


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## macro junkie (Jul 1, 2008)

1 of my females just shed to adult..every thing went fine..WOOOOOOOOOOOO just 3 weeks then i mate her..  just 1 more female to go


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## darkspeed (Jul 1, 2008)

Congratulations Scott!! Maybe you should change the title of this thread to "looking great"


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## Rob Byatt (Jul 2, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> just 3 weeks then i mate her..


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## macro junkie (Jul 6, 2008)

5:1 life size-uncropped


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## macro junkie (Jul 6, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


>


4-5 weeks then :lol: B)


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## Rob Byatt (Jul 7, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> 4-5 weeks then :lol: B)


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## macro junkie (Jul 8, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


>


hows your orchids getting on..?haven't heard any news fir ages.how many you got..what size are they?


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## Rick (Jul 8, 2008)

Told ya. Your males will likely still be alive long after you mate them assuming they do not become lunch.


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## macro junkie (Jul 8, 2008)

Rick said:


> Told ya. Your males will likely still be alive long after you mate them assuming they do not become lunch.


yer you where right/ when is it best to mate them..is 4 weeks from the final shed ok?


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## Rick (Jul 8, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> yer you where right/ when is it best to mate them..is 4 weeks from the final shed ok?


I don't remember how long I waited. I probably tried after two weeks.


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## Rob Byatt (Jul 9, 2008)

Rick said:


> Told ya. Your males will likely still be alive long after you mate them assuming they do not become lunch.





macro junkie said:


> yer you where right/ when is it best to mate them..is 4 weeks from the final shed ok?


It's a shame this has to be about who is right or wrong.



Rick said:


> I don't remember how long I waited. I probably tried after two weeks.


Scott, I have said many times when it is safe to try to pair up this species, I am not saying I am right and everyone is wrong; this is just my experience of breeding this species since 2005 for 4 generations   

I am not going to give my opinion on this subject anymore  



macro junkie said:


> hows your orchids getting on..?haven't heard any news fir ages.how many you got..what size are they?


7 mated females (3 fertilised and laying), 2 subadult females, 12 subadult males, 20 4th-6th instar females, 10 3rd instar males, 60+ 2nd instar nymphs and 10 oothecae waiting to hatch.


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## macro junkie (Jul 9, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


> It's a shame this has to be about who is right or wrong. Scott, I have said many times when it is safe to try to pair up this species, I am not saying I am right and everyone is wrong; this is just my experience of breeding this species since 2005 for 4 generations
> 
> I am not going to give my opinion on this subject anymore
> 
> 7 mated females (3 fertilised and laying), 2 subadult females, 12 subadult males, 20 4th-6th instar females, 10 3rd instar males, 60+ 2nd instar nymphs and 10 oothecae waiting to hatch.


thats alot of orchids :blink:


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## Morpheus uk (Jul 9, 2008)

So by that it kinda makes Rob the Pro on orchids


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## macro junkie (Jul 9, 2008)

Morpheus uk said:


> So by that it kinda makes Rob the Pro on orchids


wonder why we never see them for sale?he likes them that much he wants to keep them all :lol:


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## Rob Byatt (Jul 9, 2008)

Morpheus uk said:


> So by that it kinda makes Rob the Pro on orchids


You're just after freebies  



macro junkie said:


> wonder why we never see them for sale?he likes them that much he wants to keep them all :lol:


Because I'd rather be skint and have enough for breeding, than rich and Hymenopus-less  

And there will be plenty to go around soon.


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## Morpheus uk (Jul 9, 2008)

Lol, i`ll already have them Rob


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## Rob Byatt (Jul 9, 2008)

Morpheus uk said:


> Lol, i`ll already have them Rob


Shhh, they'll all be wanting them


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## Morpheus uk (Jul 9, 2008)

OH! ummm, hey whats that thing in my avatar?

Never seen it before


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## macro junkie (Jul 9, 2008)

my old female thats been egg bound for 6.5 months.i think shes about to die..shes not eaten and not moving.


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## idolomantis (Jul 9, 2008)

Morpheus uk said:


> OH! ummm, hey whats that thing in my avatar?Never seen it before


lmfao what orchid mantis never heard them :huh:


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## macro junkie (Jul 9, 2008)

Morpheus uk said:


> OH! ummm, hey whats that thing in my avatar?Never seen it before


u got a pair? if you have you can join our club .LOL


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## OGIGA (Jul 9, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


> 7 mated females (3 fertilised and laying), 2 subadult females, 12 subadult males, 20 4th-6th instar females, 10 3rd instar males, 60+ 2nd instar nymphs and 10 oothecae waiting to hatch.


 :blink: :blink: :blink: Are you going to share?


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## macro junkie (Jul 10, 2008)

- - - -


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## The_Asa (Jul 10, 2008)

It appears you U.K. people will have no problems with Rob around


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## Rob Byatt (Jul 10, 2008)

The_Asa said:


> It appears you U.K. people will have no problems with Rob around


I wouldn't go that far - I've been keeping them waiting since september :lol:


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## macro junkie (Jul 12, 2008)




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## Morpheus uk (Jul 12, 2008)

Uh wow lol

Spectacular photo MJ


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## idolomantis (Jul 12, 2008)

wow.... thats cool


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## OGIGA (Jul 12, 2008)

Haha! Too much water!


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## darkspeed (Jul 13, 2008)

Damn that is a great shot Scott!!


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## macro junkie (Jul 13, 2008)

DARKSPEED said:


> Damn that is a great shot Scott!!


Thanks


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## macro junkie (Jul 13, 2008)

left is an adult male

right is an adult female


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## idolomantis (Jul 13, 2008)

red eye and pink eye :lol:


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## OGIGA (Jul 13, 2008)

idolomantis said:


> red eye and pink eye :lol:


Brown eyes and purple eyes?


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## idolomantis (Jul 13, 2008)

i see red n pink... maybe i,m colorblind  

ok last one indeed purple... but the male has red eyes to me...


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## macro junkie (Jul 14, 2008)

OGIGA said:


> Brown eyes and purple eyes?


there more like deep orange but definitely not brown.i think the tips of the eyes are brown tho


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## idolomantis (Jul 14, 2008)

i make a new color :broredrange :lol: :lol:


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## idolomantis (Aug 25, 2008)

insteed of making a new one, i continue this one.

i,ve managed to sex this L3 as a female:






now i have them on a heath mat of 26 degrees celciuc(is that ok or do i need to warm that up?)

i,m powerfeeding her with one curly wing and 2 ff each 10 hours.

i keep the substrate 70% and mist every 24 hours.

at what nymph stadia can you people see gender?

nom nom nom


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## Giosan (Aug 25, 2008)

"one curly wing and 2 ff each 10 hours."

I don't think that's powerfeeding but just... feeding?


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## idolomantis (Aug 25, 2008)

Giosan said:


> "one curly wing and 2 ff each 10 hours."I don't think that's powerfeeding but just... feeding?


but with 4 MM abdomen that,s the maximum they can take.


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## The_Asa (Aug 25, 2008)

To me that's powerfeeding. I only feed them every other day, not that much either.


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## harryallard (Aug 25, 2008)

a bit off topic but can you feed them curly wings all their life?

and can you keep female orchids together?

or male orchids together?

 

i have many questions


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## The_Asa (Aug 25, 2008)

You can't keep orchids together and they (females at least) will outgrow the curly wings.


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## idolomantis (Aug 25, 2008)

harryallard said:


> a bit off topic but can you feed them curly wings all their life?and can you keep female orchids together?
> 
> or male orchids together?
> 
> ...


the only mantids you can keep together are cryptic spp becouse they are wusses.


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## mrblue (Aug 25, 2008)

idolomantis said:


> the only mantids you can keep together are cryptic spp becouse they are wusses.


so idolomantis is a wuss?


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## idolomantis (Aug 26, 2008)

mrblue said:


> so idolomantis is a wuss?


*slam* i,m not... if you mean the spieces.. well i don,t know i heard they only eat flies while they are 12 cm or so..

atleast the ghosts are.


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## The_Asa (Aug 26, 2008)

Yeah, Ghosts are wusses


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## nympho (Aug 26, 2008)

The_Asa said:


> Yeah, Ghosts are wusses


wusses? too right. they are giving the mantis a terrible reputation  

must get some orchids or some other nasty mantis that will actually eat something more ambitious than 1 teeny weeny ff a day !! i miss my giant asian mantids (or whatever they were called). they had balls !! :lol:


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## The_Asa (Aug 26, 2008)

nympho said:


> wusses? too right. they are giving the mantis a terrible reputation  must get some orchids or some other nasty mantis that will actually eat something more ambitious than 1 teeny weeny ff a day !! i miss my giant asian mantids (or whatever they were called). they had balls !! :lol:


You just made my day :mellow:


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## idolomantis (Aug 26, 2008)

nympho said:


> wusses? too right. they are giving the mantis a terrible reputation  must get some orchids or some other nasty mantis that will actually eat something more ambitious than 1 teeny weeny ff a day !! i miss my giant asian mantids (or whatever they were called). they had balls !! :lol:


yeah lol they take on hummingbirds and mice!

dam i,m happy to have tenodera,s now.. however they are no that happy with me...


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## The_Asa (Aug 27, 2008)

Darn...you got the 100th reply &lt;_&lt;  

The Chinese go into the threat pose so easily :lol:


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## hibiscusmile (Aug 27, 2008)

Ghost aren't wusses! Mine eat worms and crickets, and I better hurry with them or they will take me tweezers!


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## idolomantis (Aug 27, 2008)

hibiscusmile said:


> Ghost aren't wusses! Mine eat worms and crickets, and I better hurry with them or they will take me tweezers!


than you probaly have poltergheists  

mine are more like casper the friendly ghosts &lt;_&lt;


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## Giosan (Aug 27, 2008)

Look at her, little angry baby :lol:


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## idolomantis (Aug 27, 2008)

Giosan said:


> Look at her, little angry baby :lol:


you knew that didn,t you


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## Giosan (Aug 28, 2008)

idolomantis said:


> you knew that didn,t you


I do have a few that get defensive extremely fast! :lol: but this one was quite calme actually. She just needs to get used to a new home


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## idolomantis (Aug 28, 2008)

Giosan said:


> I do have a few that get defensive extremely fast! :lol: but this one was quite calme actually. She just needs to get used to a new home


oh uhm yeah is sub or presub.. lol what L is it


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## Rob Byatt (Aug 28, 2008)

idolomantis said:


> oh uhm yeah is sub or presub.. lol what L is it


I think he means what 'instar' is it ?


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## Giosan (Aug 28, 2008)

What? :blink: 

She's subadult, if that is what you ask. No clue what instar  i always lose count.


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## idolomantis (Aug 28, 2008)

that,s was the question ye.


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