# Molting



## Scary larry 21 (Dec 31, 2021)

Hi guys...I am kinda new to the manthis world. My daughter got her ghost manthis at the end of august. So far it has only molted once and that was at the end of September.  Is this normal?


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## agent A (Jan 15, 2022)

Scary larry 21 said:


> Hi guys...I am kinda new to the manthis world. My daughter got her ghost manthis at the end of august. So far it has only molted once and that was at the end of September.  Is this normal?


that depends...

ghosts are slow to mature, and so if your ghost molted to the subadult stage, it's probably another few weeks away from a molt. if it molted to an adult (with wings), it will NEVER molt again

also, what are your parameters? cooler temps will make molts less frequent. ghosts are a madagascan species that probably grow best at about 80F. While temps in the 60s will suffice for them, the development time to maturity will certainly be a LOT longer. I suspect that the species that grow at a decent pace at room temperature have enzymes that have wider thermal optima. This would be confirmed by rearing a number of species at different temps and seeing how much an increase in temperature decreases development time for each. my suspicion is that some species, while their growth rate still increases with an increase in temp, increase by a smaller factor (so perhaps 1.5 times instead of 2 times)

also, @Rick please move this thread to the general discussions


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## themantisguyanthony (Jan 15, 2022)

I agree with mantislover it has to do the with temps but don’t worry the mantis will molt when it’s ready


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## agent A (Jan 16, 2022)

themantisguyanthony said:


> I agree with mantislover it has to do the with temps but don’t worry the mantis will molt when it’s ready


unless it's an adult


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## themantisguyanthony (Jan 16, 2022)

mantisloverguy6000 said:


> correct hopefully he can tell the difference. does she have wings?


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## agent A (Jan 16, 2022)

I think you accidentally misused the quote function! lol no worries though

I hope our friend Larry is still following the forum!


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## themantisguyanthony (Jan 16, 2022)

Oops that happens when “you’re” new


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## agent A (Jan 16, 2022)

themantisguyanthony said:


> Oops that happens when your new


*you're


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## themantisguyanthony (Jan 16, 2022)

Ok teacher calm down.


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## Scary larry 21 (Jan 18, 2022)

Hi guys...yes Larry is still following the forum. I appreciate the info but that went way over our heads. Larry lives at room tempature in san diego. So probably about 70-75 but has a small light kept on him. For sure Larry in not a adult. He's the size of a nickel give or take


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## The Wolven (Jan 19, 2022)

Scary larry 21 said:


> Hi guys...yes Larry is still following the forum. I appreciate the info but that went way over our heads. Larry lives at room tempature in san diego. So probably about 70-75 but has a small light kept on him. For sure Larry in not a adult. He's the size of a nickel give or take


It sounds like your ghost is somewhere between L4-5 (maybe a tad younger, never owned a ghost). This is when their molting starts to slow down and take a bit long.


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## agent A (Jan 19, 2022)

The Wolven said:


> It sounds like your ghost is somewhere between L4-5 (maybe a tad younger, never owned a ghost). This is when their molting starts to slow down and take a bit long.


This photo is a bit misleading

males of this species have only 7 molts/6 instars


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## The Wolven (Jan 19, 2022)

mantisloverguy6000 said:


> This photo is a bit misleading
> 
> males of this species have only 7 molts/6 instars


Ah thanks. I just nabbed it offline assuming it was accurate since ghosts are a more widely owned species and information is more readily available.


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## Scary larry 21 (Jan 20, 2022)

Thanks for the info.. honestly not sure if Larry is male or female. Here is a pic of him


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## agent A (Jan 20, 2022)

definitely male! I'd say he's i4


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## Scary larry 21 (Jan 21, 2022)

Ok thanks. That was what I was guessing. Now I it normal that he hasn't molted since September. And when it says the day on the chart does that mean how many days since last molt or a continuation of days. For example going from L4 to L5 does that mean it should be roughly 30 days or another 63 days from the L4 molt


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## agent A (Jan 22, 2022)

Scary larry 21 said:


> Ok thanks. That was what I was guessing. Now I it normal that he hasn't molted since September. And when it says the day on the chart does that mean how many days since last molt or a continuation of days. For example going from L4 to L5 does that mean it should be roughly 30 days or another 63 days from the L4 molt


no it is not normal that he hasn't molted since September! Even the subadult stage isn't that long

I wonder how much he is fed or what the temperatures are in

the chart means 63 days from hatching.

sometimes I see mantises that just fail to grow. They get stuck at an instar and eventually die. I am not sure if that's what you're dealing with


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## Scary larry 21 (Jan 24, 2022)

Yes that is very interesting and kinda confirmed what I was thinking. As far as what he eats, he eats flightless fruit flies. We haven't moved to up to something bigger since he is so small. She feeds him about about 2-3 a day. But he really seems to have no interest in food or water


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## agent A (Jan 24, 2022)

Scary larry 21 said:


> Yes that is very interesting and kinda confirmed what I was thinking. As far as what he eats, he eats flightless fruit flies. We haven't moved to up to something bigger since he is so small. She feeds him about about 2-3 a day. But he really seems to have no interest in food or water


I would be using houseflies or bottleflies at i4. that is likely your issue

these hatch out large enough to handle _Drosophila hydei_, by i4 these are way too small!

I'd warm him up a bit and spritz, see if that helps


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## Scary larry 21 (Jan 24, 2022)

mantisloverguy6000 said:


> I would be using houseflies or bottleflies at i4. that is likely your issue
> 
> these hatch out large enough to handle _Drosophila hydei_, by i4 these are way too small!
> 
> I'd warm him up a bit and spritz, see if that helps


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## Scary larry 21 (Jan 24, 2022)

Thank you for that info. I would have never guessed he was ready for real flies. I just ordered some. Hopefully he shows some interest in them because he didn't care for the fruit flies.  Another question...what kind of container do you keep yours in? He's in the same container he shipped in. Don't know what else to put him in that isn't way to big.


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## The Wolven (Jan 24, 2022)

Scary larry 21 said:


> Thank you for that info. I would have never guessed he was ready for real flies. I just ordered some. Hopefully he shows some interest in them because he didn't care for the fruit flies.  Another question...what kind of container do you keep yours in? He's in the same container he shipped in. Don't know what else to put him in that isn't way to big.


If I am guessing correct, he's sitting on the lid of the container of which he was shipped in. That is a 32 oz deli cup lid and it's a good size for when ghost mantises grow into adults. For Larry's current size though you can use a 2 oz deli cup. I personally just ran to the dollar store and bought some 2.5 oz plastic "shot" cups with lids. Pokes some small holes in them and they worked just fine. These kinds of cups are a tad too small for substrate so I just use a piece of paper towel. Even then they don't really need that and it's probably better not to put anything in the bottom so the feeders don't have anyplace to hide.


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## Scary larry 21 (Jan 25, 2022)

Haha..you couldn't have been more correct. Thats exactly what he does. I do have the 2 Oz deli container. I'll transfer him and see how it goes. My daughter just wanted him to have a better view of things in the big one. But he doesn't really move anyway.


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## The Wolven (Jan 25, 2022)

Scary larry 21 said:


> Haha..you couldn't have been more correct. Thats exactly what he does. I do have the 2 Oz deli container. I'll transfer him and see how it goes. My daughter just wanted him to have a better view of things in the big one. But he doesn't really move anyway.


https://spiderpharm.com/store/#!/Housefly-pupae/p/43549165/category=11139736

You can get some cheap housefly pupae from here or try ordering them from @mantisloverguy6000. I believe their cultures may have enough pupae by now but you'd have to talk to them about it. The mantisplace (@hibiscusmile) also has them (and feeding materials for when the flies hatch) although they're a tad pricier. Especially with shipping but I've had good service when I've ordered from her.


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## agent A (Jan 25, 2022)

The Wolven said:


> https://spiderpharm.com/store/#!/Housefly-pupae/p/43549165/category=11139736
> 
> You can get some cheap housefly pupae from here or try ordering them from @mantisloverguy6000. I believe their cultures may have enough pupae by now but you'd have to talk to them about it. The mantisplace (@hibiscusmile) also has them (and feeding materials for when the flies hatch) although they're a tad pricier. Especially with shipping but I've had good service when I've ordered from her.


my flies laid eggs, so in a week I'll have pupae


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