# Help Me ID WC Mantis



## DETHCHEEZ (Dec 19, 2013)

Ran across this little guy (Actually think it's a female} on top of a trash can on my way to the bus stop today / In Long Beach CA

Know it's not a Chinese Carolina or European
Thinking "S. Californica" or don't think so but possibly a Border???
IDK

What Thinks You???

Thanx
&amp;
Happy Holidays


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## agent A (Dec 19, 2013)

i would say M.religiosa


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## Extrememantid (Dec 19, 2013)

agent A said:


> i would say M.religiosa


Lol your kidding right? Defo not a European.. Iris oratoria?


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## xiaoyu (Dec 19, 2013)

looks like Miomantis caffra


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## Extrememantid (Dec 19, 2013)

xiaoyu said:


> looks like Miomantis caffra


In California.. Are those found in the u.s?


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## Ntsees (Dec 20, 2013)

This is neither californica, iris, limbata, european, or chinese. It's some exotic mantid. I hope it's someones lost pet and not a soon-to-be-naturalized species.


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## Extrememantid (Dec 20, 2013)

Ntsees said:


> This is neither californica, iris, limbata, european, or chinese. It's some exotic mantid. I hope it's someones lost pet and not a soon-to-be-naturalized species.


Yeah it does look small.. Any idea to what species?


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## HungryGhost (Dec 20, 2013)

Oxyopsis gracilis?


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## DETHCHEEZ (Dec 20, 2013)

I'm at a loss

It doesn't look like any of the common sp. you'd see around here

???


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## Ntsees (Dec 20, 2013)

Extrememantid said:


> Yeah it does look small.. Any idea to what species?


I have no idea what species it is since I'm more specialized in the common mantids found in the U.S. The mantid looks like it's a species from the tropics or some other place in the world.


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## Extrememantid (Dec 20, 2013)

Ntsees said:


> I have no idea what species it is since I'm more specialized in the common mantids found in the U.S. The mantid looks like it's a species from the tropics or some other place in the world.


Oh ok.. So no chance it's a runt iris or stagmomantis?


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## Rick (Dec 21, 2013)

Where was it found? I assume the location under your name but you didn't mention it. Looks like Stagmomantis spp. Put up some more pictures of it from all angles including the flying wings.


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## Orin (Dec 21, 2013)

Ntsees said:


> This is neither californica, iris, limbata, european, or chinese. It's some exotic mantid. I hope it's someones lost pet and not a soon-to-be-naturalized species.


There is no reason for you to make such harmful claims with zero evidence. It does look rather strange for a Stagmomantis because of the large wings but wings are variable and there are no real identifiable features seen here. Wait till there is more evidence instead of jumping to conclusions and trying to start a harmful urban legend.


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## Extrememantid (Dec 21, 2013)

Rick said:


> Where was it found? I assume the location under your name but you didn't mention it. Looks like Stagmomantis spp. Put up some more pictures of it from all angles including the flying wings.


He said in long beach CA.. On a garbage can..


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## DETHCHEEZ (Dec 21, 2013)

Here be some more pics

Couldn't get her to flare her wings for the camera / It is a female right??? / 5 Segments
But didn't notice any tell tail wing markings

The only markings that I see that may possibly help with ID
Is the *Yellow Strip* between the eye &amp; mouth???

Maybe I'll get lucky &amp; she got some &amp; will lay me a good ooth


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## Ntsees (Dec 21, 2013)

Orin said:


> There is no reason for you to make such harmful claims with zero evidence. It does look rather strange for a Stagmomantis because of the large wings but wings are variable and there are no real identifiable features seen here. Wait till there is more evidence instead of jumping to conclusions and trying to start a harmful urban legend.


My comments are based on what I observe. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. I'm more familiar with the common native/naturalized U.S. mantids and so it would be a delight if it was a rare/un-noticed Stagmomantis native to the U.S. (assuming DETHCHEEZ is from Long Beach) that I've not seen. As for the "harmful urban legend" thing, I really do hope it's not an exotic species, but IF it is, we can't close a blind eye and ignore it. Of course we might not be able to do anything about it, but at least we can encourage best management practices for mantid hobbyists to prevent such a thing from happening.


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## MandellaMandy123 (Dec 22, 2013)

Yes, that's a female. And to me, it appears to be some sort of stagmomantis. Could you gently lift her wings to get a picture of her underwing? That would help a lot.


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## DETHCHEEZ (Dec 22, 2013)

Ntsees said:


> (assuming DETHCHEEZ is from Long Beach)


Why would I lie about where I was from???

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Getting ready to go out of town for a week
So probably wont be posting any more pics till I get back
Unless I can get a quick wing shot in the next few

Was thinking Not at 1st 'cause I'm coastal
But now pretty much thinking Stagmomantis Limbata / Bordered Mantis now
Going by the small White Marks on the outer wings ???

Thanx For Helping Out
&amp;
Happy Holidays


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## Ntsees (Dec 22, 2013)

I was getting excited that this could be another U.S. Stagmomantis spp., so I had to find out the best I could. Here goes nothing. (sorry, I'm horrible at uploading pictures)

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?app=galleryℑ=5084

The wing veination above resembles the below picture found from the site (http://www.treknature.com/gallery/Oceania/New_Zealand/photo44449.htm). The only thing is that in the below picture, the spots on the forelegs is black.

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?app=galleryℑ=5085

In DETHCHEEZ picture, the spots are brownish/goldenish (below).

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?app=galleryℑ=5086

But in this other link (http://everygenusofmantid.deviantart.com/gallery/39992856), the spots are also brownish/goldenish.

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?app=galleryℑ=5087

Based on what I can gather, the sources lead to the possible species _Miomantis 'johannesburg' caffra_. I'm no expert, but perhaps this finding will lead to the true identity of DETHCHEEZ's mantid. What do you guys think?

(edit: if it is caffra, credit goes to xiaoyu for getting it first)


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## Extrememantid (Dec 22, 2013)

Ntsees said:


> I was getting excited that this could be another U.S. Stagmomantis spp., so I had to find out the best I could. Here goes nothing. (sorry, I'm horrible at uploading pictures)
> 
> http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?app=galleryℑ=5084
> 
> ...


You got it.. That's almost a perfect match.. Who lost their mio though???


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## xiaoyu (Dec 22, 2013)

I keep Miomantis caffra from New Zealand.


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## Rick (Dec 22, 2013)

You can easily lift the wings to see the wings underneath.


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## agent A (Dec 22, 2013)

does the lip have a torquise stripe? if so its a limbata


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## Dracus (Dec 22, 2013)

Definitely _M. caffra_ female. Given that it is widespead in culture, I think this is just someone's pet.


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## happy1892 (Dec 22, 2013)

Dracus said:


> Definitely _M. caffra_ female. Given that it is widespead in culture, I think this is just someone's pet.


Why do you think that? Is it because if they were breeding it would be a different season?


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## happy1892 (Dec 24, 2013)

Can you get more pictures of the side and the face of the mantis? Who has Miomantis caffra here in the US?

Edit: Oh, there are people in California with Miomantis caffra.


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## Dracus (Dec 25, 2013)

happy1892 said:


> Why do you think that? Is it because if they were breeding it would be a different season?


No, it's just more parsimonious to assume that this is just one escapee rather than an established species. The latter option is somewhat worrisome given that M. caffra belong to the more aggressive introduced species (after introduction to New Zealand it began to pressing the only native species, Orthodera novaezealandiae, out of its habitats). And we already have three introduced species in US, though it does not seem (yet) that they represent clear competitors to the native species.


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## Paradoxica (Dec 26, 2013)

Can't M. Caffra reproduce through parthenogenesis? Or was that a different Mio species?


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## mantiseater (Dec 29, 2013)

Dracus said:


> No, it's just more parsimonious to assume that this is just one escapee rather than an established species. The latter option is somewhat worrisome given that M. caffra belong to the more aggressive introduced species (after introduction to New Zealand it began to pressing the only native species, Orthodera novaezealandiae, out of its habitats). And we already have three introduced species in US, though it does not seem (yet) that they represent clear competitors to the native species.


We have introduced two species, Chinese,and European.


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## Paradoxica (Dec 29, 2013)

mantiseater said:


> We have introduced two species, Chinese,and European.


Also the Mediterranean mantis ( Iris oratoria)


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## nirotorin (Dec 30, 2013)

Haha! I doubt anybody lost it. Long beach is pretty much just a port that they decided to call a city. Probably came in with some fruit, or something.


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## happy1892 (Dec 30, 2013)

Paradoxica said:


> Also the Mediterranean mantis ( Iris oratoria)


Also Tenodera angustipennis.


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## Extrememantid (Dec 30, 2013)

happy1892 said:


> Also Tenodera angustipennis.


That's really similar to a Chinese right?


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## Dracus (Dec 30, 2013)

Extrememantid said:


> That's really similar to a Chinese right?


Still a different species. I forgot about it, indeed that makes four.


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## mantiseater (Dec 31, 2013)

Extrememantid said:


> That's really similar to a Chinese right?


They a smaller than Chinese.


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## Orin (Jan 1, 2014)

DETHCHEEZ said:


> I'm at a loss
> 
> It doesn't look like any of the common sp. you'd see around here
> 
> ???


What about the pictures of the flying wings??


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## DETHCHEEZ (Jan 11, 2014)

Hey

Hope everyone survived the holidays / LOL

Sorry I've been lagging on my own post
Just getting caught up on things
But have been keeping an eye on it

Anyways~

Can't get a good open wing pic

As "nirotorin" said Port City
There's a gang of shipping contain storage &amp; truck yards all around where she was found
So she could have easily come in with a shipment

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So is it safe to say *M. Caffra* is the proper ID
Looks right to me
&amp;
The ooth she just laid seems to match the pics of other M. Caffra ooths I look up
Let Hope It's a Good One...

Will be looking it up
But if anyone has any good advice on ooth incubating for this Sp. that they'd like to share
I'm all ears

*Thanx For Helping ID*
*Appreciate All The Input*


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## DETHCHEEZ (Jan 11, 2014)

nirotorin said:


> Haha! I doubt anybody lost it. Long beach is pretty much just a port that they decided to call a city. Probably came in with some fruit, or something.


*Say what you will about the LBC*

*But You Can't Beat The Weather *{Same as where you're at}

My winter garden doesn't know what's up

&amp;

I have to force my plants {that need to} to go dormant

A Shout Out To All The Peps On The East Cost

*A SUNNY 91 ON WEDNESDAY*

Sorry

I Know I'm a / Fill In The "__BLANK___"

But Can't Help Myself

LOL

PEACE...


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## DETHCHEEZ (Jan 11, 2014)

DETHCHEEZ said:


> *Say what you will about the LBC*
> 
> *But You Can't Beat The Weather *{Same as where you're at}
> 
> ...


Although it is going to be a cloudy 79 on Friday &amp; a cloudy chilly 77 on Saturday

Might have to unpack a long sleeve shirt

LOL

*SORRY I'LL STOP NOW*


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## Ntsees (Jan 12, 2014)

Since you've found your answer, I've deleted my images since they were aimed to assist in the identification and they were not mines to begin with. 91 degrees on Wednesday? That's crazy. Up north a little, we could use some of that extra water the central and east U.S. has been getting.


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## DETHCHEEZ (Jan 12, 2014)

Ntsees said:


> Since you've found your answer, I've deleted my images since they were aimed to assist in the identification and they were not mines to begin with. 91 degrees on Wednesday? That's crazy. Up north a little, we could use some of that extra water the central and east U.S. has been getting.


Was just messing

It's really got to s*ck to be on the east coast

Can't even imagine it being like 20 below out

Not Complaining

But it is crazy

70s &amp; 80s in mid Jan.

*Global Warming / Love It / LOL*

I have plants that should be dormant that are still flowering

_*SoCal......................................*_


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