# the orchid mantis color experiment



## thehelepolis (Apr 23, 2020)

I've seen some posts that tell about how an orchid mantis will change color based on the flowers it lives with. this seems to be a pretty debated topic on the forum, so im doing an experiment with my 2 orchid mantises. chris has been placed in a cage with blue flowers (im assuming he will just turn out white) while cross, my other orchid has been placed in a cage with pink and yellow colored flowers.

at the start of the experiment 3 days ago, Chris and cross had nearly the same baby coloration with cross being only slightly pinker


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## thehelepolis (Apr 23, 2020)

Chris’s cage


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## thehelepolis (Apr 23, 2020)

Crosses cage


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## hysteresis (Apr 23, 2020)

Very cool! Let us know!

For your_ next_ experiment, I recommend you vary sunlight and humidity instead.  

Also, be very wary of direct sunlight onto deli cups. They can get very warm and cook your baby inside.


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## minomantis (Apr 23, 2020)

hysteresis said:


> Also, be very wary of direct sunlight onto deli cups. They can get very warm and cook your baby inside.


I am excited to see the outcome of this experiment! I agree with hysteresis, keep an eye on the sun! I’m excited for you!

I think humidity plays an important role. But I am curious to see if flower color plays more of a role than we think. Who knows Chris might start to express some blues or purples in his/her color. 
 

I also feel like the mantids have to be female for this to work maybe? I feel like males are almost always brown and white. Idk.


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## hysteresis (Apr 23, 2020)

minomantis said:


> I also feel like the mantids have to be female for this to work maybe? I feel like males are almost always brown and white. Idk.




I think maybe a male. Hard to tell, other than by the lobstering of the sternites right at the tip of the abdomen.

@minomantis, I have found my males have deeper colours right up to subadult. than females. Especially on the lobes of its legs. I have 3 male nymphs, all with nice pink.. Of three females, only one with some pink.

Im sure observations would vary, though.


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## Ax55 (Apr 23, 2020)

The other day I put a Succulent in my Orchid mantis' cage and started increasing the humidity a little more by making water droplets in the cage using a syringe (I use a humidifier for humidity). After two days her legs are now almost fully pink. I heard that when you mimic the wild conditions they'll look more pink.


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## thehelepolis (Apr 23, 2020)

minomantis said:


> I am excited to see the outcome of this experiment! I agree with hysteresis, keep an eye on the sun! I’m excited for you!
> 
> I think humidity plays an important role. But I am curious to see if flower color plays more of a role than we think. Who knows Chris might start to express some blues or purples in his/her color.
> 
> ...


the males will eventually end up white and brown as adults but they can be quite colorful as nymphs! my first orchid was a little male and as a nymph he was a colorful pink and yellow


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## thehelepolis (Apr 23, 2020)

Update: There has already been noticeable color change from 3 days ago when the experiment began. 
 

first off, Chris.

chris has lost nearly all his pink coloration, now nearly white except for the pinkish brown between has back 2 legs


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## thehelepolis (Apr 23, 2020)

cross has also gone through slight change but not to the degree of Chris. She has gained a darker pink on her back legs.

i have a feeling that once they molt into L5 is when the colors will really come to effect.


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## MantisGirl13 (Apr 23, 2020)

Good luck with this experiment! I've done similar experience with no visible results, so I'm interested in the outcome of yours!

- MantisGirl13


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## minomantis (Apr 24, 2020)

I would be curious with high humidity and temperature variety and then humidity with light and use a fish light, leds preferably because the ones these days you can customize a ramp up and now and such and don’t have to do it manually.

one thing I know is humidity is important. I can tell you (at least I think with orchids and my experience) that there is a direct correlation with some pink on the legs and humidity. I tested it out so many times. My mantids would molt, pure white. Couple days and would feed them, still white. Would spray (a good spray)  the next day and over night they would turn pink. Legs and back of thorax, not deep pink or anything, but they would start to express more color.

im curious how to get those deep deep pinks almost purples.


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## thehelepolis (Apr 24, 2020)

minomantis said:


> I would be curious with high humidity and temperature variety and then humidity with light and use a fish light, leds preferably because the ones these days you can customize a ramp up and now and such and don’t have to do it manually.
> 
> one thing I know is humidity is important. I can tell you (at least I think with orchids and my experience) that there is a direct correlation with some pink on the legs and humidity. I tested it out so many times. My mantids would molt, pure white. Couple days and would feed them, still white. Would spray (a good spray)  the next day and over night they would turn pink. Legs and back of thorax, not deep pink or anything, but they would start to express more color.
> 
> im curious how to get those deep deep pinks almost purples.


Not only that but there are a ton of cases where they are a real deep yellow as well. I wonder if they can express both colors at once to be orange.


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## hysteresis (Apr 24, 2020)

thehelepolis said:


> Not only that but there are a ton of cases where they are a real deep yellow as well. I wonder if they can express both colors at once to be orange.


The deep yellow is a different species: Helvia cardinalis (formerly Parymenopus davisoni)

Although, Hymenopus coronatus can take on some yellow on the wings.


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## thehelepolis (Apr 24, 2020)

hysteresis said:


> The deep yellow is a different species: Helvia cardinalis (formerly Parymenopus davisoni)
> 
> Although, Hymenopus coronatus can take on some yellow on the wings.


no I already know about helvia but there are some pretty yellow hymenopus aswell. some are even both yellow and pink


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## MantisGirl13 (Apr 24, 2020)

hysteresis said:


> The deep yellow is a different species: Helvia cardinalis (formerly Parymenopus davisoni)﻿


I didn't realize that the name changed... when did that happen?

- MantisGirl13


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## hysteresis (Apr 24, 2020)

@MantisGirl13 looks like just synonyms.

" ... After a brief outline of their taxonomic history, Parymenopus davisoni Wood-Mason, 1890 (Hymenopodidae, Hymenopodini) is revealed to be a junior synonym of Helvia cardinalis Stål, 1877. ..."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/296331817_Parymenopus_davisoni_Wood-Mason_synonym_of_Helvia_cardinalis_Stal_Insecta_Mantodea_Hymenopodidae


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## hysteresis (Apr 25, 2020)

So ill put my chips on April 2015.


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## minomantis (Apr 25, 2020)

thehelepolis said:


> no I already know about helvia but there are some pretty yellow hymenopus aswell. some are even both yellow and pink


I just did a quick google search and I saw some pretty yellow orchid mantids! Very cool! (I hope it was the mantis and not editing lol) I guess they can express quite the range of color. But one thing that I think should remain constant is high humidity. I feel like orchids, really most mantids respond to high humidity.


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## thehelepolis (May 3, 2020)

Update: chris has lost even more of his pink color along his back legs. Even the darkest spot among his back legs is comparatively light


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## thehelepolis (May 3, 2020)

Now for cross: cross seems to have lost some of the pink along the lobes of her legs, however the very beginning stubs of her back legs have kept their pink and grown darker. Cross also has a slight pink/orange tinge along the lobes, but it is not very noticeable. Note they they have not molted since the last update, but they are getting due for a molt and I will have another update then.


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## MantisGirl13 (May 3, 2020)

Thanks for the updates!

- MantisGirl13


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## Orin (May 10, 2020)

MantisGirl13 said:


> Good luck with this experiment! I've done similar experience with no visible results, so I'm interested in the outcome of yours!
> 
> - MantisGirl13


I think people who do not notice results have substrate or other materials in or as part of the cage that throw off the experiment. The colored item has to be essentially the only color in the cage that the animal sees. Extra background colors throw it off and confuse the results. You can determine whether a female ghost becomes a green or brown adult in the same manner.


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## thehelepolis (May 12, 2020)

Hi everyone! I’m back with another update! First off, both Chris and cross have molted! Chris has seen no change in color so I think that blue is a color that they can’t replicate.


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## thehelepolis (May 12, 2020)

Next up cross! Cross has became more pink, however it is not as much as I was expecting. I also don’t see a hint of yellow on him. Finally, I was wondering if you all could tell me who’s male or female. Right now my best guess is that their both male.


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## thehelepolis (Jun 2, 2020)

Hi everyone! It’s been a while but both Chris and cross have molted into subadulthood. Both turned out to be males. As always, Chris is up first!

chris has gained 2 brown markings on his legs, something I’m guessing is his adult coloring beginning to form. Other than that, no observable change.


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## thehelepolis (Jun 2, 2020)

For cross, his colors are rather dull but they seem to have somewhat adapted to match his pink and yellow flowers with his legs having both slight pink and yellow. One thing I have found out though is that an orchids colors are brightest around a molt, so when that comes, I will post some more pictures of the 2 so we can observe the colors at their brightest. I gotta say, I was hoping at least one would be a female but I still love the little guys


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## thehelepolis (Jun 20, 2020)

I guess this will be the final major update. I will post adult cross and hopefully Chris but these next pictures are the final ones that will hold any relevance to the experiment. First off, Chris. Chrises brown markings have gotten more intense even though he hasn’t shown any sign of molting soon. Chris also seems to be sick, with an abdomen that never really flattens out I see black material in his lower thorax and abdomen. While I’m afraid about his chances of getting his wings, he’s handling the so called Black Death like a champ. 2 weeks and no sign of slowing down.


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## thehelepolis (Jun 20, 2020)

Now on a more hopeful note, cross! Cross is definitely about to molt, and these pictures are from when his colors are at there most intense. While they aren’t as intense as I was hoping, cross ended up color matching his yellow and pink flowers... well on his back legs anyway.


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## gravewurm88 (Feb 26, 2021)

Do you know what's happening?  Really simple and logical when you think on it. I'ma blow your mind. The white of the mantis acts like a mirror of sorts and reflect back the colors it on to a slight degree. You could put a orchid on am orange sheet of paper and it'd look orange. Ever notice that painters always wear all white? Same reason reflection onto the surfaces can screw with the eye so painter wear all white to keep have a neutral "reflection." Does make sense? Simply put it's light absorption, wear black and get hotter quicker, absorbs more light. What makes animals change color is chromatophores mantids don't have these I think stick insects are the closest relatives that do


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