# Mantis religiosa hatching... Sort of...



## Domanating (May 31, 2011)

About time my ooths started to hatch. Am I happy? Not very much.

i got 5 ooths laid from a single mantis religiosa on November 2010, the 1st laid was a big one then 2 medium sized ones then 2 small ooths. 1 and 1/4 of the medium sized ooths hatched, the others are still very quiet. about 15 nymphs successfully hatched. The next day, for no apparent reason 12 died. from the the lasting 3, 1 was almost death, the other had its thorax a little twisted, and the other seamed very healthy and active. The day after the twisted mantis was dead and the dying one has been eaten. Only the legs and head were left. I enjoyed having the apparently healthy mantis for 2 days and today i found it dead. I have no clue of what could have happened to see such a massive loss in mantids in such a short time.

Weather in Portugal is a bit strange right now, last week it was very hot (28-33ºC), and that made the ooths hatch, well almost all of them. in last weekend "cold" weather (about 22-25ºC) settled again. The air isnt very cold, the wind is.

Im not sure but the quick weather change might have stopped the complete hatching of all ooths. About the nymph deaths i don't think heat is responsible, 1st because they were safe at home with a reasonably good temperature and 2nd this species can take drastic temperature changes from 45ºC to 10ºC or even less.

If the rest hatches, i just hope this doesnt happen again... :blink: 

Here's a glimpse of how my tiny tiny mantids look like. In case you ask, that tiny bug next to it is a flee


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## Mr.Mantid (May 31, 2011)

I dont think religiosa do too well in captivity...


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## Domanating (May 31, 2011)

You think wrong. All the mantids i took care of the last 12 or 11 years were mantis religiosa, they behaved perfectly. 3 years ago i had the pure luck to find in a large abandoned jar in my garden 9 nymphs, 5 survived to adulthood and died old age, this is one year, the next ones were also some pretty successful years in mantis caring. I got experience with this species. It's the only species i ever had, you don't buy or buy food, you find them in the wild and find food in the wild. The only experience i need left is ooth care and recently born nymphs care, nothing more.

Mantis religiosa is far less demanding in terms of heat and humidity. They can take great variations.


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## MantidLord (May 31, 2011)

I've raised M. religiosa from nymph (not L1) to adulthood and mated them. The ooths never hatched though I think that's my fault in too much heat in the desert sun. But I have heard that they are hard to raise and breed for some reason.


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## Arwen9 (May 31, 2011)

I've raised and bred lots of reliogiosa before and never had an issue with them.

However, I've always started with L3 nymphs and taken care of them--breeding and all--up until I got ooths. Then I released the adults back into my garden and--once the ooths hatched--put them into the garden too. since the mortality rate is so high for any mantis freshly-hatched nymphs, it was easier to stick them into the garden and let nature weed out the weak.

Then I just collected the L3 nymphs and started over again. lol.  

Liz


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## Rick (Jun 1, 2011)

I have had nothing but issues raising that species from the ooth. I don't think they're too hardy.


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## alicenwnderlnd (Jun 1, 2011)

i tried an ooth this year of these guys and had terrible results. at day 2 most all had died. had about 10 nymphs left so i put them in separate cups to be extra careful... slowly they have all died here and there, i only have two left.


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## ismart (Jun 1, 2011)

My hatch rates are superb! This year alone i have hatched about a thousand european nymphs from half a dozen ooths. Do you want to know how? Well i will tell you.  Last falls ooths were put in my unheated garage, in 32oz deli cups for the winter. They have never been misted the whole time they have been in the garage. They were removed from my garage in mid april. They were then exposed to very high humidity for the next three weeks. They were also kept at room temp. This is the second year i have incubated them this way. The reason for the increased humidity is to help while they exit the ooth. These guys are notorious for getting stuck mid way.


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## Domanating (Jun 1, 2011)

I got a special room in my house which was badly designed, the floor is just made of really old wood boards and just below dirt. It's like natural ventilation and usually the temperature and humidity outside or inside that room is practically the same all year. It's the perfect place to put the ooths during winter, cold and a lot of humidity. When summer approaches, however, i lose all moisture and i don't have any place with enough humidity but the bathroom after a hot bath lol. The 15 or 20 nymphs that hatched were probably just luck because they were born during a week full of thunderstorms, providing a good temperature and humidity to the special room, but now after 3 cold days, heat is coming back and there are no signs of rain so far. I'm pretty much dependent of the weather.


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## ismart (Jun 1, 2011)

Heat is not the underline factor for european ooths to begin to hatch. I have witnessed wild ooths hatching in 13C with 80% humidity. This always occurred early morning when the humidity was at it's highest! Try putting the ooths in a container with humidity holding substrate. Mist once a day, and they should hatch with no problem.


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## Domanating (Jun 2, 2011)

All i could do for now was putting wet paper towels inside and on the enclosure (but not in direct contact with the ooths) to insure some moisture.

Thanks for the info, i thought they needed high temperatures to hatch so they would know when summer arrives.

Anyway i was curious and worried that my ooths have dried out and there's no more nymphs coming out since last week so i tried to gently open the ooth which already hatched to avoid killing fully healthy unhatched ones. I was pleased to see the little shiny and hydrated eggs there. They seemed fine but there's a big difference in development between eggs, some are yellow others are yellow and white, others just white and some already brown with the fully formed mantis religiosa. I removed that sponge like protection but i still let some of the eggs inside their casings. Can they still hatch?


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## mantisboy (Jun 6, 2011)

ismart I am so glad to read your reply. I have read many opinions to mist or not mist during diapause...I did not. I kept my Ooths in the garage which in Idaho gets pretty cold and brought half inside then starting misting in the early morning. I also hung a papertowel in the enclosure which I saturated with water to up the humidity. After 10 days 1 Ooth starting to bare nymphs. The first got stuck and died, the 2nd was mal-formed, and the 3rd was perfect. The mal-formed one and the perfect both died by day 3, not the biggest of deals. However I have kept misting regularly but.........no more nymph..it's been about a week now.

Just wondering...have you ever had that happen where you get a few...then nothing for a while. I totally agree on the humidity, it seems like the 2nd and 3rd one had problems with their back legs getting stuck to the Ooth casing. In both cases I soaked a toothpick, dabbed it just above the stuck legs, waited about 20 minutes and got their back legs separated even though a small piece of ooth material was still sticking to a one back leg.


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## Domanating (Jun 6, 2011)

Happened exactly as me, still no new nymphs...


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 6, 2011)

ismart said:


> Heat is not the underline factor for european ooths to begin to hatch. I have witnessed wild ooths hatching in 13C with 80% humidity. This always occurred early morning when the humidity was at it's highest! Try putting the ooths in a container with humidity holding substrate. Mist once a day, and they should hatch with no problem.


This is not just a useful post, it is a Golden Rule! Post this in yr bug room folks and remember that it applies twofold to tropical mantids. Wander around your neighbohood at dawn and you will see butterflies and, if you're lucky and in the right place, dragonflies, eclosing at the same time to take advantage of the high humidity and later, the sunlight to dry their wings and chitinous bodies.


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## ismart (Jun 7, 2011)

Domanating said:


> All i could do for now was putting wet paper towels inside and on the enclosure (but not in direct contact with the ooths) to insure some moisture.
> 
> Thanks for the info, i thought they needed high temperatures to hatch so they would know when summer arrives.
> 
> Anyway i was curious and worried that my ooths have dried out and there's no more nymphs coming out since last week so i tried to gently open the ooth which already hatched to avoid killing fully healthy unhatched ones. I was pleased to see the little shiny and hydrated eggs there. They seemed fine but there's a big difference in development between eggs, some are yellow others are yellow and white, others just white and some already brown with the fully formed mantis religiosa. I removed that sponge like protection but i still let some of the eggs inside their casings. Can they still hatch?


Don't misunderstand me. The ooths do require 4 weeks of warm weather for incubation. It's just that they don't need it to trigger them to hatch. I hate to say this, but if your ooth has hatched some nymphs already, then if no more hatch within the next few days. No more will hatch out.  These guys are more of a burst type hatching species. I have only witnessed a few ooths hatching within a few days time. After that nothing else!


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## Domanating (Jun 7, 2011)

But the ooth i opened has some fully formed mantids and they seem healthy, they aren't dry... Can they just die inside the ooth for no reason?

Plus the main ooth, the first one that was laid, which is the biggest, still didn't show any hatching signs. Could there be hope for that one?


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## Mr.Mantid (Jun 7, 2011)

You just have to play the waiting game. I've had ooths that took as long as 3 mos to hatch and some from the same sp. only a month. Can't really know for sure whats goin on in there.


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## mantisboy (Jun 8, 2011)

Well if that's the case ismart...I won't waste my time trying to breed the adults I catch this year..why bother?


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## sporeworld (Jun 8, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> This is not just a useful post, it is a Golden Rule! Post this in yr bug room folks and remember that it applies twofold to tropical mantids. Wander around your neighbohood at dawn and you will see butterflies and, if you're lucky and in the right place, dragonflies, eclosing at the same time to take advantage of the high humidity and later, the sunlight to dry their wings and chitinous bodies.


Yeah, I've been seeing that more and more. I keep my mantids at work, with no exposure to natural sunlight (or reasonable day cycles). I started taking my ooths home in view of the skylight. All my hatches have been in the early morning light. No idea if this is confirmation bias, or there's something to it. Temperature with these ooths have been constant, and humidity nearly the same (although I am now leaning towards a soak/dry regimine, instead of constant humidity).


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## Ntsees (Jun 9, 2011)

European mantids are tough when they have hatched (I remember an old discussion on this). I've had my share of experience with them dying at the first instar. They might live a few days, but most won't last more than that. However, if they can get to the ~3rd instar or beyond, they are no problem raising.


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## ismart (Jun 9, 2011)

idahomantid said:


> Well if that's the case ismart...I won't waste my time trying to breed the adults I catch this year..why bother?


What!!! Of course you should still bother! I was not trying to discorage you.  I can tell you what i think the problem might have been? You took them out of your garage to late to start to incubate them properly. If they started to hatch only 10 days after you took them out of the garage, then something is wrong there. I personally think they started to incubate in your garage, but without misting at that crucial time. It might have disrupted there developement? This of course is just a theory.


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## mantisboy (Jun 9, 2011)

Nope....I read what you said, don't start back tracking on me now ismart!  

Well, we'll see what happens...summer has yet to show itself this year in Boise. I took the Ooths out of the garage the last week of April (temp highs 50 degrees), just days before our last snow. I use a beta fish aquarium for housing the Ooths along with 1.5 inches of sand for substrate. I am going to give them until the end of month but if they don't hatch..oh well. I know I will catch some adults towards the end of summer and this time I won't have to deal with males...less mouths to feed and housings to clean.

I use a heavy misting (wetted paper towel)and drying out regiment..seems more natural..and every nymph that has popped did so between 9am and 12noon while the housing was in a drying out mode. Although they don't receive any direct sunlight...the ambient light must have some effect on them...so I absolutely concur with your theory.

As always, thanks for your reply ismart....


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## ismart (Jun 10, 2011)

Well... timing to incubate the ooths seems about right. Next year you should take the ooths out a bit more earlier. I normally take mine out of the garage the first week in april to incubate indoors. They hatch the first week in May for me indoors. The ooths that are kept out naturally hatch in the second, or third week in may. Usually 2-3 weeks earlier than wild chinese ooths. I know you are in a different state, but i don't think our temps are to far off from each other? Continue to incubate your ooths. Hopefully i am wrong? Good luck!


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