# Know any tricks to get a mantis to eat?



## Precarious (Jan 5, 2012)

My Rhombodera female has been ill since laying her ooth. For about a month she was vomiting nasty smelling puke. She ate through most of the illness. Now that she's recovered from that she won't eat and she's getting weak. She hasn't vomited now for a week but hasn't eaten either.

The male had the same illness as a sub but he recovered and is a healthy adult so I know they can survive this but not if she won't eat.

I've tried all the usual tactics: honey, wounded feeders held to mouth. She just pushes everything away.

Any suggestions?


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## lunarstorm (Jan 5, 2012)

Smash a fly or the guts of a cricket into a pulp, place it on the end of a toothpick and gently place it against her mandibles. If she refuses that, I suspect her time is very limited.


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## guapoalto049 (Jan 5, 2012)

Nothing new from me, just a question. What feeders do you use?


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## Precarious (Jan 5, 2012)

guapoalto049 said:


> Nothing new from me, just a question. What feeders do you use?


Crickets. I know where this is going. I don't have space to raise roaches. I had a dubia colony and got rid of it because none of my mantids would even eat them. There is always a chance of parasites when using crickets. I've used them to raise many species with no problems, but by all accounts this is a fragile species. Can't say for sure crickets are the reason because everyone in Europe had problems even getting adult pairs. So I can't blame crickets for the illness but I can credit them with helping her produce the ooth that hatched 358 nymphs.  

I just want her to live. I hate when one dies before its time. I know she'd fully recover if she would only eat.


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## lunarstorm (Jan 5, 2012)

Another thought: how does she respond to water? Not just misting, but if you pour a small amount of water into your palm or offer her a wet sponge? My thinking is that if she's not eating, ensuring she's drinking water might give her some time to gather her strength and find her appetite.

Just brainstorming some ideas in case something helps.


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## psyconiko (Jan 5, 2012)

lunarstorm said:


> Another thought: how does she respond to water? Not just misting, but if you pour a small amount of water into your palm or offer her a wet sponge? My thinking is that if she's not eating, ensuring she's drinking water might give her some time to gather her strength and find her appetite.
> 
> Just brainstorming some ideas in case something helps.


+1

I would add a micro amount of salt to the water.


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## Psychobunny (Jan 5, 2012)

The smashed cricket guts on the tooth pick always works for me, but you have to be

insistant and keep trying because they will often back off.

You have to get it into their mouth by force, then they will know it's food.

I have saved a few of mine from sure death using this method, I mean, I was just about

ready to put them in the freezer!!

If they refuse it (they always do at first) just stick it right into their mouth.

They will taste it, and realize it's food, and they dont have to do any work to eat it!!


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## ismart (Jan 5, 2012)

It sounds like it may be already to late? My only advice at this point would be to mist her often. They usually become dehydrated from puking so much. Not mention this might help her to puke even more. If any of the decomposing undigested food is still in her gut, and she can't expel it. She will only grow weaker and die.

Also for future reference. Should you notice any of your mantids starting to puke. Do not continue to feed them. give them about three days before trying to feed them again if they have not puked since. Continuing to feed while they are still puking is a death sentence. Honey is no help either. It will only make it that much more harder for them to vomit.


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## Krissim Klaw (Jan 5, 2012)

Do you know if she was passing waste at the time so stuff was still going all the way through? Not vomiting at this point isn't a sign to me at all she is recovering if she isn't eating either. I would offer some water. If she flails and refuses the water or bends to rub it off her mouth, than that has always been a sign to me the the mantis is past saving. Whenever I have had a what should be hungry/dehydrated mantis violently refuse water they are getting ready to pass and my guess is there bodies have already started to shut down. With these mantises you almost always see a instant negative reaction. It isn't let me sip a little, it is an instant flail.


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## lancaster1313 (Jan 5, 2012)

Krissim Klaw said:


> Do you know if she was passing waste at the time so stuff was still going all the way through? Not vomiting at this point isn't a sign to me at all she is recovering if she isn't eating either. I would offer some water. If she flails and refuses the water or bends to rub it off her mouth, than that has always been a sign to me the the mantis is past saving. Whenever I have had a what should be hungry/dehydrated mantis violently refuse water they are getting ready to pass and my guess is there bodies have already started to shut down. With these mantises you almost always see a instant negative reaction. It isn't let me sip a little, it is an instant flail.


I agree with this.

Is the mantis able to pass waste from the rear?

I have had a couple mantids that died from foul smelling vomit and diarrhea(most likely due to some sick crickets that I fed them), but the ones that died from the illness, died in days, not weeks (I was still pushing food on them).

The ones that made it were the ones that I stopped feeding. I pretty much saved them with the advice that ismart gave me at the time: No food, plenty of water, and lots of ventilation. I kept them out of their enclosures as much as possible and remodified their original enclosures for more ventilation. Also, I kept them as clean as possible and cleaned up the vomitus and diarrhea every time I saw/smelled any of it (sometimes every 2 hours at least). I am glad that I was able to be at home with them.


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## ismart (Jan 5, 2012)

Whoops! I also forgot about the whole defecating thing. another sign is not taking a  

If there is a blockage then there is nowhere else for it to go but out the other end? No, i really have no proof of that's whats happening? :lol: It just at least seems that way? My Prete book is in storage, so i cant remember exactly how the digestive system works exactly? Phil where are you?

Also good ventilation helps with vomiting mantids. I forgot to mention that too!  My brain is hurty! :lol:


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## Psychobunny (Jan 5, 2012)

likebugs said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> Is the mantis able to pass waste from the rear?
> 
> ...


This is very useful advise. If any of my mantids have this problem, I will know how to treat them.

Everyone knows the potential hazards of crickets, so I always make sure my crick tub is clean and free

of dead ones and waste.

I also only pick the perkiest cricks to use as feeders. I take the lame and sick looking ones out.

Of course, the problem your mantis had may not have anything to do with cricks, but it does sound like

it ingested something very bad!!

There is no 100% with any feeder! Only my largest mantids will even touch a roach. Most of the time, the

roach is still in the mantis cage for days because either the mantis does not see it, or the roach slips out

of their grasp.


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## Precarious (Jan 5, 2012)

Yeah, I've forced food into the mouth, even honey, and all she does to spit it out. She definitely knows it's food. She is just resisting. I've been putting her on a solid surface each day and giving her puddles of water to drink from and she always does. I always make sure she gets plenty and she is always receptive to water.

I'm learning a lot here so I'm glad I posed this. I didn't know I should stop feeding when they vomit. Most other times they just get past it so I had no idea. And I thought honey would be good since it is fast energy.

I wasn't keeping track of whether or not she was pooping. That is a very good point. Wish I could think back and see, but I really lost track of that. I'm fairly certain she was while she was eating but hasn't since she stopped eating. If this ever comes up again I'll be sure to keep track of that.

She'd actually stopped vomiting while she was still eating but then refused food. Early on the vomit was dark and extremely nasty. Stank up my whole room. Then it was more liquid and didn't smell so much. All of that was while she was eating and this was over the course of a month so I guess she had to have been pooping or it never would have gone clear-ish.

But today I see a little brownish liquid on the the net cage and it is by her rear. Now I'm wondering if the lighter colored "vomit" was not vomit at all.

She is very weak. If I can't get her to eat today I think it's pretty much done. I'll do what I can.

Thanks to everyone for the advice.


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## guapoalto049 (Jan 5, 2012)

Yeah good points everyone, I'll try that next time it happens to me.

I brought up the food part because the only time I've ever had this happen was when mine were fed with crickets. My lobster adults were running thin so I bought crickets to bulk up some adult budwings and Chinese. I waited a few weeks before I fed any to the mantids, and three of the four mantids I fed crickets to ended up puking.

One of the budwings is still alive, her vomit still stinks. Makes me want to vomit myself :wacko:


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## Precarious (Jan 5, 2012)

guapoalto049 said:


> Yeah good points everyone, I'll try that next time it happens to me.
> 
> I brought up the food part because the only time I've ever had this happen was when mine were fed with crickets. My lobster adults were running thin so I bought crickets to bulk up some adult budwings and Chinese. I waited a few weeks before I fed any to the mantids, and three of the four mantids I fed crickets to ended up puking.
> 
> One of the budwings is still alive, her vomit still stinks. Makes me want to vomit myself :wacko:


That's crazy. I buy crickets every week, feed them for a day or two then use them. I've been doing this for over a year now and only had the vomiting with 4 or 5 mantids of different species over that time. I've even fed my Idolo crickets with no negative results. I don't doubt there is some risk but you most definitely had a very bad run of luck. Sorry to hear it.

I recall I had a young Ghost and Violin die after vomiting and neither had ever had a cricket.

Just out of curiosity, what is a roach species that only gets about the size of an adult cricket? Are there any that size good to use as feeders? I really hated having the dubias just because I didn't pay them enough attention and cleaning the bin was a nightmare with so many tiny babies hiding in the substrate. And I have no use for anything bigger than a cricket.


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## lancaster1313 (Jan 5, 2012)

_Pynoscelus surinamensis_(a burrowing and climbing species) and _Phoetalia pallida( they can climb)_ are the first that come to mind, as far as cricket sized roaches. The _P. pallida _are a bit smaller than crickets, but their activity level and the fact that I haven't seen much burrowing with them, would make them a good mantis feeder.


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## sporeworld (Jan 5, 2012)

Mine used to vomit from (what I suspected was) over-eatting. To rule out bad food, I fed the crickets in their own enclosure, removed them after feeding, and kept them in a container without food for a day (thinking it may have to do with internal feces or undigested food in the gut). Then, I tossed them in a big jar of water before feeding them to my mantid with the tongs (to wash them, and make sure some water got into their system). All this SEEMED to help, but there are so many other factors in play. But REFUSING food if not nearing a molt or egg laying, has always seemed to be a death warrant.

I've noticed that cranking up the heat seems to help with a lot of issues, including appetite.

Someone above mentioned adding salts to the water. That's an interesting approach.

Love to hear that SOMETHING worked for you. Good luck!


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