# Did I rip off Precarious? Maybe....



## LauraMG (Oct 23, 2010)

Here's my new enclosure for my gongys! They seemed very happy with it and the moss is great with the humidity!

Now, if you study this picture carefully, you can see several interesting things like the Chinese food on the table next to it, Beauty and the Beast on the TV, my spray bottle, and my sloppy nature on Friday nights :lol: 












Making themselves at home immediately!











That's a fake grapevine wreath from WalMart that I slashed up and hot glued in, along with the front opening enclosure with a screen top and of coarse the moss in the bottom with the $6.50 digital thermometer and humidity gauge from WalMart. This is probably my prettiest enclosure, but also my most expensive. I think it will be worth the trouble for a few different mantids :clap:


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## Seattle79 (Oct 23, 2010)

Nice enclosure


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## myzticalboi (Oct 23, 2010)

Wooooooooooohooooooooo! I love the new house for your gongys. Im not sure about the high humidity though. I thought they were a desert species.


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## LauraMG (Oct 23, 2010)

Well, they're native to southern India and Sri Lanka, which are both fairly tropical environments. India famous for it's rain forests. Although, right now the moss is holding it at around 91%, and I don't think that's their native level! :lol:


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## sporeworld (Oct 23, 2010)

Very nice! I have one of those glass cages, too, that I don't use, because the flies kept finding leaks (it's pretty old, though, and they may have improved the design). I also found it kind of difficult to clean, compared to just spraying down the screen cage (although the glass does look much better).

I also dug out an old lazy susan and plopped it underneath, so I could just spin it to open, and then spin it back (to the all glass side) for better viewing.

But now, they're all in screen enclosures with daily (sometimes multiple daily) sprays and they were fine.


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## Rick (Oct 23, 2010)

Gongy like it HOT. The temps look like they are room temps. Do you have a heat lamp or something that just ins't in the pic?


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## LauraMG (Oct 23, 2010)

Rick said:


> Gongy like it HOT. The temps look like they are room temps. Do you have a heat lamp or something that just ins't in the pic?


Not yet. I'm going to grab one today or tomorrow. I just didn't have enough hands at the pet store to get everything! The company that makes these enclosures makes those hooded lights that fit perfectly. Of coarse, I could always go the cheap route with the 100 watt bulb and a shop light from WalMart, but that wouldn't look as pretty!


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## GreenOasis (Oct 23, 2010)

Pretty awesome! Wish I had the space for something like that! Maybe once I get a few teenagers to move out in a couple of years. &lt;_&lt; 

(Yep, I'm that old!)  

-Carey Kurtz-


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## angelofdeathzz (Oct 23, 2010)

very nice Laura,I use two separate smaller size 45 watt halogen flood bulbs in in the chrome shop light holder ($9-10 each with bulbs) to distribute the heat more evenly,as they will burn there feet on one big bulb. and don't be fooled the females will eat the males after L-6 or so,if you see wing buds take the males out of there ( me and Precarious learned the hard way :hang: ). try to keep the temps at 85-95,humidity only about 60-65 % for molting only, once adult no extra humidity is needed or wanted, as they thrive hot and dry.  they will never drink so don't freak out, just make sure your flies are hydrated. they don't like being misted directly either.if they are happy with your environment they will eat like crazy(4-6 flies each a day  ) so be ready for there large appetite. they love it hot and dry the humidity is only to help them molt I can't stress that enough. doing all this has made my females 4 inch+ giants. but hey to each his(or her) own.

Good luck and enjoy your litlle Zen dancers!


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## Precarious (Oct 23, 2010)

First off, looks beautiful! They will love their new home!

Second, you'll be hearing from my lawyer! :angry: 

I hate to disagree with everyone but...

I raised mine all together with no cannibalism until an adult female chomped my adult male because I'd been low on food for a few days. That is a risk with every species. Given enough space and food they live well together. This is probably the least aggressive breed I've dealt with.

They do fine at room temp (70-80). From what I've read you may need to boost that to get them to mate. I never used a light until they became adults.

I always maintained humidity above 60 with no negative effect. Why chance catching it just when you think they will molt? That's just asking for trouble.

And mine always drink when I mist (several times a week) and don't even mind direct misting.

Hey, to each his own. These methods worked great for me.


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## LauraMG (Oct 23, 2010)

Precarious said:


> Second, you'll be hearing from my lawyer! :angry:


I openly admit I ripped off your general design. I actually had the pic of yours pulled up while I was gluing it all together! :lol: Maybe, just maybe it was a good idea...


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## Precarious (Oct 23, 2010)

Laura G said:


> I openly admit I ripped off your general design. I actually had the pic of yours pulled up while I was gluing it all together! :lol: Maybe, just maybe it was a good idea...


No, no, no! I meant he will contact you to congratulate you on doing such a good job. ^_^ 

It really does look nice and will be 100% functional for this species. I think you'll be hooked on having visually pleasing terrariums for communal species. They're the only ones they make sense for.

One suggestion I would make is to put the majority of the moss into a shallow dish so you can better contain the moisture. I've found that makes cleaning easier as well as controlling any mold if it developes. For species that require a lot of humidity it really helps to be able to pour some water into the dish without getting everything on the terrarium floor too wet.


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## angelofdeathzz (Oct 23, 2010)

well what do i know I'm just a rookie here, carry on.


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## Precarious (Oct 23, 2010)

angelofdeathzz said:


> well what do i know I'm just a rookie here, carry on.


My too!  

I'm just sayin', the generally accepted methods are apparently not the only ones that work. I took some liberties with the rules and it payed off. We're at the same place with our Violins so both methods seem to work equally well. Maybe mine matured more slowly due to lower temp? I don't know, but we both ended up with adults and that's what matters to me.  

Now if only I have an adult male to seal the deal...


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## LauraMG (Oct 23, 2010)

Precarious said:


> Now if only I have an adult male to seal the deal...


That is the trick, isn't it! It's a miracle how any of these species make it in the wild when in *ideal* conditions they have so much trouble, ie. Idolos, violins, etc


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## Precarious (Oct 24, 2010)

Laura G said:


> That is the trick, isn't it! It's a miracle how any of these species make it in the wild when in *ideal* conditions they have so much trouble, ie. Idolos, violins, etc


I think their instincts get a little twisted up when they are confined to a small space. When you're hungry and your hunting grounds have been reduced to a 1 foot square cannibalism seems a more attractive prospect. In the wild they are seldom in close proximity unless they are preparing to mate. And I'd guess less males get eaten because they have room to fly off at dismount.

And bad molts generally happen because of low humidity or poor gripping surfaces. Those are HUMAN errors. In the wild they can count on the humidity to rise at night and in the morning, and they have a nearly limitless area to find the right molting perch.  

I have no proof of any of that, but it seems logical to me.


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## sporeworld (Oct 24, 2010)

I'm with Precarious - no canibalism (unless I slacked off on food), and mine crawl (wander) all over each other without incident (kind of funny). I'm deducing that since we've had sucess with low and high temps, AND low and high humidities, that we're really just indicating what a hearty species it really is.  And I can't say as I remember any pattern to them drinking when misting, or being bothered by it. I worry more about disease from poor ventilation, or the moss material won't get cleaned properly. Hundreds of tiny little Blue Bottle body parts get lodged in there (yuck).

I think the Violins were my biggest payoff in terms of trouble vs. pleasure. And they're just so docile - even my skitish teenage staff will let them crawl around on em!


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## angelofdeathzz (Oct 24, 2010)

Precarious said:


> My too!
> 
> I'm just sayin', the generally accepted methods are apparently not the only ones that work. I took some liberties with the rules and it payed off. We're at the same place with our Violins so both methods seem to work equally well. Maybe mine matured more slowly due to lower temp? I don't know, but we both ended up with adults and that's what matters to me.
> 
> Now if only I have an adult male to seal the deal...


Sorry for the grumpy comment Precarious, my Father-in-law is dying so my stress level are through the roof  but it's no reason for me to be a smart azz. I'm far from my happy go lucky self right now.

and yeah when it comes to raising mantis "theres more than one way to skin a cat" for sure!


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## Precarious (Oct 24, 2010)

angelofdeathzz said:


> Sorry for the grumpy comment Precarious, my Father-in-law is dying so my stress level are through the roof  but it's no reason for me to be a smart azz. I'm far from my happy go lucky self right now.
> 
> and yeah when it comes to raising mantis "theres more than one way to skin a cat" for sure!


I didn't think you were being grumpy. Just clarifying my position.  

Sorry to hear about your situation.


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## LauraMG (Oct 24, 2010)

angelofdeathzz said:


> my Father-in-law is dying so my stress level are through the roof


I'm really sorry to hear that man. I hope you can find some peace in the middle of the storm.



Precarious said:


>


I LOVE that you busted out the Trek on me! I understand what your point is, completely. Once it's clarified like that, kinda makes more sense.


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## Precarious (Oct 24, 2010)

Laura G said:


> I LOVE that you busted out the Trek on me! I understand what your point is, completely. Once it's clarified like that, kinda makes more sense.


Every now and then I just need to Spock you upside the head. :wacko: :hammer: 

:tt2:


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## LauraMG (Oct 25, 2010)

Precarious said:


> Every now and then I just need to Spock you upside the head. :wacko: :hammer:
> 
> :tt2:


 :lol: Awwwwww.....


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## LauraMG (Oct 27, 2010)

Just a poor quality iPhone pic, sorry. But, I wanted to relay my experience with the behavior of my gongys when I put this light up. They didn't have any more of the fancy hood lights at PetSmart, so I used this rig which is for Arthur the bearded dragon. It keeps his 10 gallons a toasty 90 degrees on average with just a 100 watt bulb. I rotated off to see what kind of temp I could get with this enclosure and noticed immediate behavior changes. First, they all backed off into the shade which tells me I need a less intense bulb. Good to know since I'm ordering a hood light. Second, they started dancing around. I haven't seen much of this constant movement that I hear people talk about, and I always assumed it was because I still had them at room temp. There was butt wiggling and swaying and head bobbing galore! It's obvious to me they seem to "feel better" with the extra heat. I may just rotate off the light at night until I can get the hood light in and set up. Arthur doesn't like it at night. It interrupts his slumber :lol:


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## Precarious (Oct 27, 2010)

They won't mind a temp drop at night and they need darkness to set their circadian rhythm like every other living thing.

Please make sure the light isn't so close it heats up the screen or you may damage their feet. Looks too close in the pic. I have my light clipped on the shelf above my tank shining into it from about 8" away and I still get a temp increase. I try not to have it on too long. Just from like noon till 4 or 5. That's when the sun is hottest.

Looks like a nice home for them!  

I made up a new terrarium for the Idolos today. I'll have to create a thread and post some pics.


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## sporeworld (Oct 27, 2010)

Anyone have experince with the ceramic bulbs (heat no light)?


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## LauraMG (Oct 27, 2010)

Precarious said:


> Please make sure the light isn't so close it heats up the screen or you may damage their feet. Looks too close in the pic. I have my light clipped on the shelf above my tank shining into it from about 8" away and I still get a temp increase. I try not to have it on too long. Just from like noon till 4 or 5. That's when the sun is hottest.


Mos def! I used it as a very temporary experiment to see what their reaction would be. I killed the light after about 30 minutes and left them to rest in darkness and cold. :lol:


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## Precarious (Oct 27, 2010)

Laura G said:


> I killed the light after about 30 minutes and left them to rest in darkness and cold. :lol:


Awesome!

This is an arctic species so keep them in the freezer at night. They prefer extended periods of light and dark. You'll have to built an igloo for them to lay their ooths in. And have seals on hand for them to hunt because they cover the ooths in seal skins.

You'll have to trust me on this... :wacko:


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## Ricardo (Oct 27, 2010)

I often hear the terms " L5 " Or L4. Does this reffer to the molts? Like " molt 4 ".

How many months does the usual mantis go for without wings?

Btw great enclosure. Once you get the substrate in there how often do you have to replace it?


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## LauraMG (Oct 27, 2010)

Ricardo said:


> I often hear the terms " L5 " Or L4. Does this reffer to the molts? Like " molt 4 ".
> 
> How many months does the usual mantis go for without wings?
> 
> Btw great enclosure. Once you get the substrate in there how often do you have to replace it?


L4 or L5 refers to what instar the mantis is, or it's age if you'd prefer. L1 hasn't molted (first instar), L2 has molted once (second instar), etc. all the way until they are an adult. Most species go through 7 or 8 molts (I think) but it depends on what species. As for the substrate, that just depends too. It usually takes a long time before I'll replace it, but I do clean out the droppings and mix it up to avoid molding and perpetually bad smells!


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## LauraMG (Oct 27, 2010)

Well, here's the hood and light. It's an compact fluorescent hood and I got a "tropical" bulb for it, which I know I paid too much for but I wanted it to be setup and done! The gongys are gathering around the bulb and dancing like crazy again! It doesn't overheat the screen either, it remains cool to the touch. Pretty nifty, and the gongys are happy! Now, I think I'm done and I've spent enough on this enclosure..... :lol:


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## Precarious (Oct 27, 2010)

Damn, you went all out! Looks great!


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## sporeworld (Oct 27, 2010)

Very nice work


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## LauraMG (Oct 27, 2010)

Spanks guys!  :tt2:


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## Ricardo (Oct 27, 2010)

Laura G said:


> Spanks guys!  :tt2:


hey laura how many mantids you you have? / enclosures


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## LauraMG (Oct 27, 2010)

Ricardo said:


> hey laura how many mantids you you have? / enclosures


I currently have 33 mantids in 10 species contained in 17 enclosures, mostly 32oz deli cups. I have 2 big terrariums, one for the gongys as pictured here and a 5.5 gallon tank turned vertically. I have one critter keeper, one converted beta fish tank, 4 one gallon dry goods containers from WalMart converted with screen holes and drilled ports in the tops, and all the others are small enough for deli cups. (that ended up being a longer answer than I thought!)


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## Ricardo (Oct 28, 2010)

Laura G said:


> I currently have 33 mantids in 10 species contained in 17 enclosures, mostly 32oz deli cups. I have 2 big terrariums, one for the gongys as pictured here and a 5.5 gallon tank turned vertically. I have one critter keeper, one converted beta fish tank, 4 one gallon dry goods containers from WalMart converted with screen holes and drilled ports in the tops, and all the others are small enough for deli cups. (that ended up being a longer answer than I thought!)


how do you manage to have some coexisting? OR do you divide up the enclosures?


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## LauraMG (Oct 28, 2010)

It depends on the species and their age. The beta tanks I have are split in 2 and I raised several Creobroter nebulosus in them just fine because they're such a tiny species. The gongys can live communally for a while, but I'll have to separate out the boys eventually. I also have a bunch of babies that I'm just starting to put into their own enclosures, so somewhere around 7 of those guys are still in only 2 enclosures.


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## angelofdeathzz (Oct 28, 2010)

you did it ! you got the thing to look better than Precarious's rig ..two thumbs up  

ladies touch I guess???


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## LauraMG (Oct 28, 2010)

angelofdeathzz said:


> you did it ! you got the thing to look better than Precarious's rig ..two thumbs up
> 
> ladies touch I guess???


My ego would like to say it's just me, but you're probably right about the ladies touch....


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