# butterfly cage



## masonperillo (Jul 2, 2011)

I have 2 livemonarch butterfly cages 12x12x12 and 18x18x24, they would be perfect for mantids but wont a heat lamp burn through the mesh?


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## The_American (Jul 2, 2011)

If it is to close and to hot.


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## hibiscusmile (Jul 2, 2011)

Keep it about 6" away and feel it offten when setting up, but should be ok!


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## masonperillo (Jul 2, 2011)

im not sure if i would but if i were to keep violins i would need high heat. alot of things ive read say violins do great in those cages. that confuses me because i know violins need 90-105 degrees


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## sporeworld (Jul 3, 2011)

I think the confusion is that people say what THEY prefer, not what the mantids prefer. In my experience, Violins are very tolerant and will do well from 72 to 110. Of course, I suggest they're healthier at those temperatures, but that's completely debatable.

Side note: The screen may be so small that frass (droppings) can fall through the bottom, so keep an eye out.


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## PhilinYuma (Jul 3, 2011)

allanimal21 said:


> I have 2 livemonarch butterfly cages 12x12x12 and 18x18x24, they would be perfect for mantids but wont a heat lamp burn through the mesh?


Some good answers already, but that won't stop me. Lots of variables here, including yr ambient RG and temp, but the good old inverse square law will save the day. Have a good digital thermometer and decide on yr target temp. Set up yr heat lamp a foot away from the net and measure the temp INSIDE the cage. If it is too low, move the lamp closer remembering that if you halve the distance, you will quadruple the heat. And know that even a hair dryer, used in moderation, will not melt the netting. If I get a hole in the netting (beware crix!) I repair it with tacky glue (buy it at Michaels) and dry it with a hair dryer so that it becomes transparent. How much heat will melt -- make it run like a nylon stocking -- the netting? A manly heat gun at two feet. Don't bother to try this, I already have.

You'll read a lot of good advice on this forum, but we don't usually score very high on wisdom. Sporeworld's comment is an exception. Well fed mantids will thrive through a wide range of temps and RH, though the latter, if too low will cause mismolts and possibly egg binding, and it varies inversely with the rise in temp unless more moisture is added either passively, by saturating a paper or other substrate or actively, with a humidifier. It is generally at breeding time that these two paramaters become critical, and any records of RH and temp during a successful mating are a real help to the hobby.

As a side note, I should point out that I am on vacation with my son Dave and his beloved, Jean Anne. On Tuesday, Dave will be playing in his regular APA league and JA and I will follow our time honored practice of trying to drink each other under the table (JD for her, CC for me). She is a formidable opponent and I am already in training, so if I missed a comma or misspelled a word in the above, see if I care.


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## sporeworld (Jul 3, 2011)

Well said.

On the thermometer part; Phil suggested, and I love, the Caliber 3. Very small, digital, seems really accurate (4 next to each other only varied about 2 degrees, and less than 5% RH). Google Shopping will find you plenty.

Here's just one link:

CALIBER 3


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## Termite48 (Jul 4, 2011)

I use the net cages in their various shapes and sizes and they are great. I was shown these by Kiet in the great O.C. CA and then I used his account and bought mine on the www.livemonarch.com web site. They do not allow small droppings through as far as I can see. They are good even with a high wattage heat lamp. Right now being that the ambient temp is about 80 degrees F, I have lowered the wattage to 65 watts at about 8 inches from each of the smaller cages. Then Violins and the other mantids I keep can select their own temperature and apparently they also knopw the inverse square rule, because when they are too warm, they just move a little more distant from their sun. When you want to mate the mantids and you need them to heat up a bit, just give them fewer ways to get too cool and you can get them in the mood for mating with the additional humidity factor entering into the equation.


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## Rick (Jul 5, 2011)

Depending on the species you probably don't need a lamp.


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