# Interbreeding



## Wes (Sep 20, 2012)

I'm not looking to make any ungodly island-of-dr.-monroe creatures, BUT PURELY OUT OF CURIOSITY, is it possible to breed different (or similar) species of mantids? For instance, say, a deroplatys lobata, with a truncata? I've read up a little bit on it (not sure if it was a thread here, or somewhere else), and i've gathered some info that points to the possibility, but I'd like to hear what yall got to say about it.


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## ShieldMantid1997 (Sep 20, 2012)

I know someone here said they bred two Creobroter species, don't remember who though :/


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## hierodula (Sep 20, 2012)

It wont work... People have tried to breed Wahlbergiis and occelatas and nothing happened. Same with hierodulas. Its just a waste of time.


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## aNisip (Sep 20, 2012)

No...biologically speaking maybe; I'm not sure of the genetics between the species lIke the egg and sperm composition ...it's been awhile since AP Biology  ...but a male truncata will not be attracted to a dessicata female's pheromones...the only way you can try it would 've tricking the male to mount her and maybe he might connect...I doubt it though...but from the question you are talking about hybridization where as the title is inbreeding (mating amongst the same specie)--am I right in this statement?

All the best,

Andrew


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## hierodula (Sep 20, 2012)

AndrewNisip said:


> No...biologically speaking maybe; I'm not sure of the genetics between the species lIke the egg and sperm composition ...it's been awhile since AP Biology  ...but a male truncata will not be attracted to a dessicata female's pheromones...the only way you can try it would 've tricking the male to mount her and maybe he might connect...I doubt it though...but from the question you are talking about hybridization where as the title is inbreeding (mating amongst the same specie)--am I right in this statement?
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Andrew


Well he said interbreeding not inbreeding....


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## angelofdeathzz (Sep 20, 2012)

When a mantis meets another mantis of a different species the main thing you'll note in a majority of the situations is it was dinner time for one of them. ^_^


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## Bug Trader (Sep 20, 2012)

As for the genetics, when you cross two subspecies its known as outcrossing, hybridization is the crossing of unrelated species and is much rarer. As for outcrossing truncata and lobata what would it even be for? Each species has its own unique traits and trying to play god never advances anything. Without the proper tracking of the offspring it would lead to misidentfications that would further genetic issues within the hobby not to mention take the natural beauty out of the insect. Mother nature for the most part keeps things in order with natural barriers and other things like the production of pheromones not to mention size differences that keep this from being an issue.


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## aNisip (Sep 20, 2012)

Bug Trader said:


> As for the genetics, when you cross two subspecies its known as outcrossing, hybridization is the crossing of unrelated species and is much rarer. As for outcrossing truncata and lobata what would it even be for? Each species has its own unique traits and trying to play god never advances anything. Without the proper tracking of the offspring it would lead to misidentfications that would further genetic issues within the hobby not to mention take the natural beauty out of the insect. Mother nature for the most part keeps things in order with natural barriers and other things like the production of pheromones not to mention size differences that keep this from being an issue.


+1 Well said...thank you for the informative knowledge


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## gripen (Sep 20, 2012)

Bug Trader said:


> As for the genetics, when you cross two subspecies its known as outcrossing, hybridization is the crossing of unrelated species and is much rarer. As for outcrossing truncata and lobata what would it even be for? Each species has its own unique traits and trying to play god never advances anything. Without the proper tracking of the offspring it would lead to misidentfications that would further genetic issues within the hobby not to mention take the natural beauty out of the insect. Mother nature for the most part keeps things in order with natural barriers and other things like the production of pheromones not to mention size differences that keep this from being an issue.


Yeah what he said. Also keeping different stocks isolated is always a good practice.


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## ShieldMantid1997 (Sep 20, 2012)

Someone a while back said they had a interbred female creobroter lay an ooth, which hatched.


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 20, 2012)

But hybrids happen naturally in nature. It isn't impossible, but i doubt it. Each species has its own pheromones


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## hibiscusmile (Sep 20, 2012)

I think the closely related creos do intermate, but not sure, and certainly cannot prove it, but I have a pic and post in the Bugatorium post somewhere where my chinese male mated with a religiosa female, nothing came of it, but they did mate.


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## ShieldMantid1997 (Sep 20, 2012)

hibiscusmile said:


> I think the closely related creos do intermate, but not sure, and certainly cannot prove it, but I have a pic and post in the Bugatorium post somewhere where my chinese male mated with a religiosa female, nothing came of it, but they did mate.


Interesting, and such a different species


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## ShieldMantid1997 (Sep 20, 2012)

Someone should try and document this experiment with Creos, i would be willing to if anyone has an adult female creobroter pictipeniss and adult male gemmatus


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## Mime454 (Sep 20, 2012)

hibiscusmile said:


> I think the closely related creos do intermate, but not sure, and certainly cannot prove it, but I have a pic and post in the Bugatorium post somewhere where my chinese male mated with a religiosa female, nothing came of it, but they did mate.


Gross


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## psyconiko (Sep 20, 2012)

ShieldMantid1997 said:


> I know someone here said they bred two Creobroter species, don't remember who though :/


I did :cowboy: .

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=22049&amp;hl=interbreeding&amp;fromsearch=1


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## ShieldMantid1997 (Sep 20, 2012)

What happened to the nymphs?


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 20, 2012)

Nikkko said:


> I did :cowboy: .
> 
> http://mantidforum.n...ng&amp;fromsearch=1


did the 1st gen ever breed? Were they true hybrids?


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## Wes (Sep 20, 2012)

Bug Trader said:


> As for the genetics, when you cross two subspecies its known as outcrossing, hybridization is the crossing of unrelated species and is much rarer. As for outcrossing truncata and lobata what would it even be for? Each species has its own unique traits and trying to play god never advances anything. Without the proper tracking of the offspring it would lead to misidentfications that would further genetic issues within the hobby not to mention take the natural beauty out of the insect. Mother nature for the most part keeps things in order with natural barriers and other things like the production of pheromones not to mention size differences that keep this from being an issue.


My topic post was purely hypothetical. You're saying in nature there has never been one species of mantis that has successfully bred with another?


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## ShieldMantid1997 (Sep 20, 2012)

Wes said:


> This is purely a hypothetical question. You're saying in nature there has never been one species of mantis that has successfully bred with another?


It seems impossible for that to have never happened.


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 20, 2012)

ShieldMantid1997 said:


> It seems impossible for that to have never happened.


yeah it has. Nikkko bred Creobroter elongatus and Creobroter pictipennis.


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## ShieldMantid1997 (Sep 20, 2012)

i said "It seems impossible for that to have never happened."

Meaning that it had to have happened at some point in time.


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## massaman (Sep 20, 2012)

breeding species in the same sub gender species works I did remember once I bred a nebulosa with a gemmatus but none of the nymphs lived though!


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## ShieldMantid1997 (Sep 20, 2012)

I want to try with Sphodromantis, but will keep all the nymphs to myself, no way would i give them to anyone though, don't want to mess with the gene pool.


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## Wes (Sep 21, 2012)

that's my point.


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## Bug Trader (Sep 21, 2012)

Wes said:


> My topic post was purely hypothetical. You're saying in nature there has never been one species of mantis that has successfully bred with another?


You know this topic in my experience is always meant to stir up the pot some way or another but I will firther dive into it. I never said there has never been a natural hybridization of two species, nor am I claiming there hasnt been an outcrossed population but few seem to understand the points I make.

Natural hybridiations and outcrossed populations do occur, and believe it or not it can be as simple as a person releasing something they have or caught in a place it doesnt belong.......It can also occur due to natural disasters, dams breaking, deforestation or even man just simply leveling land that was acting as a natural barrier between to species or populations. Even a predator dropping live prey in a new area it happens and we all know this, but you can also toss in the act of evolution as a factor in this discussion.

Another factor, in many cases a hybridization will leave offspring sterile or with a natural defect, this is mother natures way of controlling these situations, Even in a sub population of a species you can get genetic material that has established itself just enough to not be successfully compatible in order to make the next generation. But when it does happen on its on, evolution takes over and a new population or species comes of it.

Just because it happens on its on doesnt mean we need to help it or play around with the bugs in our collection. If there arent enough colors, shapes and sizes in the mantid world already that you have to create something perhalps this hobby isnt meant for you anyways. What is needed is a proper managment of whats here, you never know when the gene pool gets cut to what we have, species become endangered, fads change and species here that were once around dissapear and theres the fact one day getting new stuff in may become much more difficult if laws were inforced. Keep what you have managed, and look at these exotic species as a blood line you may not get back or get to replace. Its that simple.


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## Rick (Sep 21, 2012)

Do a search. This has been discussed many many times......


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