# Best species for a mantisnoob?



## dubias (Oct 18, 2009)

I have no experience with mantis but I might be willing to buy only 1 (I am more of a frog freak!)

I am looking for these caracteristics for my mantis, so if you have any advice or suggestions, I would be grateful!

-cheap price, able to get in canada

-big ###### mantis, flashy and colorful, I like bright colors or weird shapes/statures

-MUST be able to eat dubias roach as staple diet!

-easy to care for as I have no experience with mantis, note that I have several frogs and treefrogs so I do have experience with terrariums.

-fun to watch hunt

Am I better off catching a local mantis?

Thanks a lot in advance!

Charlotte


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## DeadInTheBasement (Oct 18, 2009)

probably a chinese they are large but not very weird and flashy...the sell very cheap but you would have to hand feed it dubia since most mantids wont go to the bottom of there enclosure and chase after food...instead wait for it to come to them


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## dubias (Oct 18, 2009)

DeadInTheBasement said:


> probably a chinese they are large but not very weird and flashy...the sell very cheap but you would have to hand feed it dubia since most mantids wont go to the bottom of there enclosure and chase after food...instead wait for it to come to them


Yeah Chinese mantis was the one I thought of, after browsing a little bit through the forum! Would I be able to get one in Canada?

I have no problem with hand feeding, I even enjoy it! But are there any kind of mantis that wouldn't just hide on the ceiling? :x

I know the one we get in Canada can get pretty big too... around 4-5in I'd say ...

Hmm I really want a mantis but I need to figure which one would be the best for me

Thanks!


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## DeadInTheBasement (Oct 18, 2009)

the one you get in canada is chinese  they are an introduced species that have done very well for them self....

also most people start with mantid nymphs considering how short the life span is and in that case you would have to use fruit flies to feed the nymphs and some mantid species actually prefer to only eat larger flies as the grow into adults.....so with dubia as your only feeder your very limited in the age and species of mantid you get...


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## Rick (Oct 18, 2009)

Dubias4Canadians said:


> Yeah Chinese mantis was the one I thought of, after browsing a little bit through the forum! Would I be able to get one in Canada?I have no problem with hand feeding, I even enjoy it! But are there any kind of mantis that wouldn't just hide on the ceiling? :x
> 
> I know the one we get in Canada can get pretty big too... around 4-5in I'd say ...
> 
> ...


First of all, you don't have to hand feed a chinese. They are very aggressive. Most likely your wild chinese mantids have already died due to the cold. Most mantids hang from the top of their cages, it is just what they do. You need to figure out if you want a nymph or an adult. Nymphs will of course need smaller food.

Also you need to introduce yourself in the intro forum.


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## massaman (Oct 18, 2009)

some species to consider being easy to take care of and not that expensive depending on the breeder

giant asian

creobroter nebulosa

creobroter gemmatus

gambian spotted eye flower mantis

acromantis

chinese mantis

european mantis

nigerian flower mantis

stagmomantis species


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## Rick (Oct 18, 2009)

massaman said:


> some species to consider being easy to take care of and not that expensive depending on the breedergiant asian
> 
> creobroter nebulosa
> 
> ...


Many of those don't meet his criteria.


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## Katnapper (Oct 18, 2009)

Another good beginner species is the Budwing mantis. Easy to care for, no special requirements, very aggressive towards their food, fun to watch scope out and stalk food, eats most anything (roaches good), fairly inexpensive comparitavely. Very hardy mantis. The females have beautiful markings on their "saddle" type wings. Often overlooked species.

And like Rick said, you need to consider what size or age, and if you want either an ooth or live mantids. It's risky sending live mantids to Canada from the US because of the increased transit time. It's dicey... could be 6 days... could be 18 days.

Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## beckyl92 (Oct 18, 2009)

i think ghosts are the easiest in my opinion


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## Rick (Oct 18, 2009)

BeckyL said:


> i think ghosts are the easiest in my opinion


Seems he wants a large species.


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## massaman (Oct 18, 2009)

Best to find a ooth of a species you want to try out from perhaps from a breeder or such in canada or in the us and have them ship the ooth instead of any nymphs or adults that could die in the process of being shipped and ooths tend to be alot less of a hassle to send at times!


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## dubias (Oct 18, 2009)

I don't wanna be an ######, buy you guys win a medal when it's time to post empty answers!!!!!!!!

tell me why? give me examples! be more precise!!!

I will try to be more precise myself too, so here are my 4 criteria, in order of importance!

First of all, what I really need is a mantis that is affordable and that is available in Canada

secondo, I need a mantis that I can feed dubias to (so I guess I need a big one right?)

troisiemement, I guess I also need an easy to care for mantis as I don't have specific experience with mantis... I can't tell their feeling and how healthy they are by just looking at them, like I do with frogs for example (I am a frog freak!)

but from what I have been reading, mantis are very very easy to care for, right? I have seen that you don't even need to clean leaves or whatever you pick up outside before putting it in the tank! do that with a frog, and you have 50% chance of having a dead frog tomorow!

lastly, of course I would like a beautiful, fun to watch while hunting mantis, but the 3 first(specially the 2first) criteria are a lot more important !

Other than that, what is the average life span of a mantis?

Should I get a male of a female? What are the differences?

Am I not better off picking one in the wild? I do not know what type of mantis there is in eastern Canada though.

Thanks a lot for the information!!

Charlotte


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## massaman (Oct 18, 2009)

first off there is prob no real species of mantis in east canada or any that reside in canada other then the ones that were introduced there!

So the idea of finding a species that lives in canada and thats a large species is not going to happen!

getting a ooth is alot easier then just jumping into the mantis game because you need to learn how to raise them from the ground up and as they say you dont learn how to fly unless you learn how to land first!


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## dubias (Oct 18, 2009)

Are you saying there is no native mantis in eastern Canada??? So all those mantis I found, were mantis that ran away? I found a 4-5inches brown one once, and a 3-4inches bright green one too...

Correct me if I am wrong but do I really need to be able to raise a mantis from its oothhood to adult in order to be able to care for them? I mean, i NEVER had a tadpole, and all my frogs are doing great &gt;_&gt; I thought it would have been the same with mantis.


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## massaman (Oct 18, 2009)

by raising them from the ooth first then gives you first hand experience and then you can learn how to raise each instar as they grow by asking questions in this forum and raising them from a ooth is one good way to learn the hobby from the ground up as you learn what to feed them from nymphs all the way to sub adults and then adults and then learning the process of them molting and breeding also as part of the experience!Well if you want to breed them then you would need to have both a male and female and there is plenty of info on here and the internet on how to sex a mantis and how to breed them effectively and depending on the species as well!! Those you found might of been introduced in canada years ago but dont know for sure as never had seen any when i was in canada long time ago!


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## AmandaLynn (Oct 18, 2009)

Dubias4Canadians said:


> Are you saying there is no native mantis in eastern Canada??? So all those mantis I found, were mantis that ran away? I found a 4-5inches brown one once, and a 3-4inches bright green one too...Correct me if I am wrong but do I really need to be able to raise a mantis from its oothhood to adult in order to be able to care for them? I mean, i NEVER had a tadpole, and all my frogs are doing great &gt;_&gt; I thought it would have been the same with mantis.


I think what he is saying is that Chinese and European mantis have been introduced to Canada just like in the US, they didn't originate there. You don't need to start from an ooth either. If you raise dubias then I would think that you have various sizes available to feed to various sized mantids. An ooth is not a good idea unless you have fruitflies to feed the nymphs for the first few instars, but there are a lot of species that could eat small dubias at L4. My favorite is the ghost mantis. They're somewhat small, but very easy to care for and have a very striking appearance. Any wild mantis that you find at this time of year will be on it's last leg and not have much longer to live so, my suggestion would be to get a nymph that is at least in it's fourth instar.


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## dubias (Oct 18, 2009)

Oh I guess I should have told you guys that I just want 1 mantis... as my goal is to increase my frog collection, I do not want to invest too much in mantis! But I do really like those bugs, but am far from going nuts. I guess I am just a casual lover! So that's why I don't want it to be too complicated! I wish I had time to invest on everything I like, but it is just impossible!


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## dubias (Oct 18, 2009)

Oh I definately can't find a living mantis where I live right now!!!! I would be looking for these next spring.

Are you saying they live only 1 year? so buying mantis unless you want to breed them, is pretty much useless?


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## massaman (Oct 18, 2009)

yes it is pretty much useless?

most of them live only till winter and thats the native species and they dont live anywhere passed the end of fall or beginning of winter and there are few species of mantis that can live a year or a little longer but those are not native and those would lay alot of ooths in their lifetimes and just raising one mantis I guess is ok but this forum is for the mantis hobby and since all you want is one then its not much of a hobby for you then since your more into frogs!


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## Rick (Oct 18, 2009)

Dubias4Canadians said:


> Oh I definately can't find a living mantis where I live right now!!!! I would be looking for these next spring.Are you saying they live only 1 year? so buying mantis unless you want to breed them, is pretty much useless?


There are some comments you need to just skip over. Some exotic species can live a year but most will just give you several months at best. You say you will be looking next spring. Do you want to find your own or buy one? It is not useless to buy a mantis if you don't want to breed. Like I said, some people you can just ignore. Over time you will know which ones.

You want us to be precise? Well I don't know what else to tell you. You say you want something affordable? Well what is affordable to you? What is affordable to one person may not be to another. Most of the more common species can be had for not much money. Shipping will be your biggest issue. I told you in my first reply to check the classifieds here, many of the members also have websites.


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## Rick (Oct 18, 2009)

massaman said:


> first off there is prob no real species of mantis in east canada or any that reside in canada other then the ones that were introduced there!So the idea of finding a species that lives in canada and thats a large species is not going to happen!
> 
> getting a ooth is alot easier then just jumping into the mantis game because you need to learn how to raise them from the ground up and as they say you dont learn how to fly unless you learn how to land first!


Please. Stop.


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## dubias (Oct 18, 2009)

Rick said:


> There are some comments you need to just skip over. Some exotic species can live a year but most will just give you several months at best. You say you will be looking next spring. Do you want to find your own or buy one? It is not useless to buy a mantis if you don't want to breed. Like I said, some people you can just ignore. Over time you will know which ones.


ok gotcha!..

If I am to get a WC myself, I will obviously hunt it next spring, else I can buy/ship pretty much any time... When I know if there is a specific specie that I would be interested into, and that would be worth buying, then the other option of catching one will be mostly dead



Rick said:


> You want us to be precise? Well I don't know what else to tell you. You say you want something affordable? Well what is affordable to you? What is affordable to one person may not be to another. Most of the more common species can be had for not much money. Shipping will be your biggest issue. I told you in my first reply to check the classifieds here, many of the members also have websites.


When I say be more precise, I mean those kind of replies!



Rick said:


> Many of those don't meet his criteria.


which ones? why?



BeckyL said:


> i think ghosts are the easiest in my opinion


why dude?? why!!;p

as for afordable, I guess I could check the classified, but then again, I don't even know a single of these species, xept the chinese one!

as in any hobby, I guess there are some ultra expensive, ultra rare mantis out there, and then there is also that basic, easy to breed,cheap , usual starter mantis, am I right? the second one, is the type of mantis that would enter my "afordable" I guess!

I checked the classified, and it seems that even the rarest don't go for high prices, but I still have to consider that it will die within a year!



massaman said:


> this forum is for the mantis hobby and since all you want is one then its not much of a hobby for you then since your more into frogs!


that's what YOU think buddy, I am pretty sure the mods here are happy to see someone who's looking for good advice at the right place even if its for the good of only one single mantis, correct me if I am wrong


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## Rick (Oct 18, 2009)

Dubias4Canadians said:


> ok gotcha!..If I am to get a WC myself, I will obviously hunt it next spring, else I can buy/ship pretty much any time... When I know if there is a specific specie that I would be interested into, and that would be worth buying, then the other option of catching one will be mostly dead
> 
> which ones? why?
> 
> that's what YOU think buddy, I am pretty sure the mods here are happy to see someone who's looking for good advice at the right place even if its for the good of only one single mantis, correct me if I am wrong


Spring would be the hardest time to find a mantis. They are very tiny in the spring. Also tiny nymphs eat fruit flies, if you already have those for your other animals it may not be a concern.

I said they don't meet your criteria because you said you want a large species which most of those are not.

Most mantids are pretty easy to keep. Most can live under the same basic conditions. There are really only a few to avoid as a new person to the hobby.

Some of my favorites and some easy ones are:

giant asian mantis: large species, easy to keep

budwing mantis:small to medium species

chinese mantis:most people know about his one. L1 nymphs can be difficult

african mantis:medium mantis, very aggressive

any of the stagmomantis species:small mantids

texas unicorn mantis:interesting mantis native to the southwest (texas)

wide arm mantis: a medium mantis, pretty interesting. Also very aggressive.

There are so many......


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## dubias (Oct 18, 2009)

but about spring.. those tiny babies come from 2 mantis that mated during spring? right? or do they lay egg during fall, and then die, and the eggs hatches in spring?

if that is the case, well god, mantis are complicated hhaha!!!

thanks for all the answers


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## Rick (Oct 18, 2009)

Dubias4Canadians said:


> but about spring.. those tiny babies come from 2 mantis that mated during spring? right? or do they lay egg during fall, and then die, and the eggs hatches in spring?if that is the case, well god, mantis are complicated hhaha!!!
> 
> thanks for all the answers


Mating takes place in late summer/fall. Ooths are laid around the same time. First frost usually kills the adults. Eggs hatch in spring. Newly hatched nymphs are 1 cm or less in size which is why I said they are hard to find.


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## ismart (Oct 18, 2009)

I'm a little confused!  Are you looking to buy an adult mantis? Or a nymph that you plan on raising to adulthood?


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## Emile.Wilson (Oct 18, 2009)

massaman said:


> first off there is prob no real species of mantis in east canada or any that reside in canada other then the ones that were introduced there!So the idea of finding a species that lives in canada and thats a large species is not going to happen!
> 
> getting a ooth is alot easier then just jumping into the mantis game because you need to learn how to raise them from the ground up and as they say you dont learn how to fly unless you learn how to land first!


This is why I say that having tones of posts does not make you smarter in any way.


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## Emile.Wilson (Oct 18, 2009)

massaman said:


> yes it is pretty much useless?most of them live only till winter and thats the native species and they dont live anywhere passed the end of fall or beginning of winter and there are few species of mantis that can live a year or a little longer but those are not native and those would lay alot of ooths in their lifetimes and just raising one mantis I guess is ok but this forum is for the mantis hobby and since all you want is one then its not much of a hobby for you then since your more into frogs!


Katnapper do you have a smiley that shoots himself in the head "




"


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## Katnapper (Oct 18, 2009)

Emile said:


> Katnapper do you have a smiley that shoots himself in the head "insert here"


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## dubias (Oct 19, 2009)

ismart said:


> I'm a little confused!  Are you looking to buy an adult mantis? Or a nymph that you plan on raising to adulthood?


Well I did want an adult, but I didn't know about mantis... now I understand that having a mantis as an ooth is pretty much just not even an option, it's how you can have a mantis! I'll have to think about all this a bit more... I guess if I find one in the wild, I might try it out but I doubt I'll pay for mantis as I do not plan to breed them ;X


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## Katnapper (Oct 19, 2009)

You don't have to breed them; keeping one or two as pets can be very rewarding!


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## ismart (Oct 19, 2009)

May i suggest that you look into maybe buying a sub-adult chinese or giant asian. The reason a say this is because if you don't want to raise one up from a small nymph then at least you will have a little more time with a sub-adult mantis. Mantids do not live a very long time. So if you purchase one as an adult you may only live for a short time. Also these species at sub-adult should have no problem tackling dubia's if i'm not mistaken. A female mantis would also be best. They are more aggressive and usally a bit larger, of course depending on the species that is. Really the best thing you could probally do is just browse through the forum. There is such a wealth of knowledge here. I hope this helps a bit!


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## Emile.Wilson (Oct 19, 2009)

Katnapper said:


>


Wow Your rule!!!


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## DeadInTheBasement (Oct 19, 2009)

there is always the tip that venomous snake owners tell newbies when they ask "whats the best beginner species"

its a simple answer....a DEAD one...dont have to feed it or nothing they are very easy to keep i swear


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## JoeCapricorn (Nov 5, 2009)

What I would suggest if you are unable to find a wild mantis in your area, but you don't quite want to raise a mantis from a tiny nymph stage is to get one that is L4, L5 or so (still a few molts behind adult hood, but still reasonably large) or even sub-adult or adult (Don't just restrict yourself to adults, since they aren't always available).

I have 5 mantises - one adult Chinese, 3 L2 African and 1 L1 African (Or it could be 3 L3 or 1 L2, I just know that Meek is one molt behind the rest). Patience is key, and I suggest an older nymph or adult mantis because at first, you will make mistakes (I have) and you will learn from them. I also don't intend on breeding my African mantises, for the most part they'll be separate from each other. I simply do not have the time or resources to tackle having 50-200 baby mantises in my house, nor do I have the experience on shipping those babies to others if I want to get rid of them but not kill them.

Also, you probably do have a pet store that sells crickets in your area, so if you get a mantis that is decent sized and an older nymph, you can probably start off with small to medium crickets right off the bat. If you have an adult mantis, perhaps even large crickets.

As for specific mantises... there have already been many good suggestions. My favorite are Chinese mantises, I also like European mantises, which are smaller. I am loving my baby African mantises as well, they are also a hardy species and if you were to get baby African mantises, I recommend bugsincyberspace.com. Ordering from the internet can be intimidating because there are those that will rip you off and send you oothecas that are made of foam (Personally, I'll never order an ooth)


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## PhilinYuma (Nov 6, 2009)

DeadInTheBasement said:


> there is always the tip that venomous snake owners tell newbies when they ask "whats the best beginner species"its a simple answer....a DEAD one...dont have to feed it or nothing they are very easy to keep i swear


Yeah. Just be sure to keep it in the freezer.


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## hierodula (Nov 6, 2009)

hierodula,sphodromantis, and rhomberda are all great and hardy species.


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## PhilinYuma (Nov 7, 2009)

Dubias4Canadians said:


> I don't wanna be an ######, buy you guys win a medal when it's time to post empty answers!!!!!!!!tell me why? give me examples! be more precise!!!
> 
> I will try to be more precise myself too, so here are my 4 criteria, in order of importance!
> 
> ...


Precise answers.

There are three species of mantis in the wild in Canada, two introduced species and one that only occurs in B.C. (I think that Emile is from there) and would be too small to interest you.. Try Googling &lt;mantids eastern Canada&gt; for more info, and you might want to p.m. Emile for expert advice, though when last heard from, I think that he was contemplating shooting himself in the head. You will certainly not be able to catch any mantids in the wild until next year -- early summer probably.From yr time zone, I imagine that you are from Ontario. If so, you might be able to get mantids shipped from the N.Y. (as in Bronx!) or from those nice midwestern states, like Illinois or Ohio.

Mantids are not "very, very easy to care for." Read through some of the threads here for the real skinny! "My mantis wont eat/sleep/molt." My mantis has developed a crick in its abdomen/black eyes/ fungus spots/creeping crud," etc. Also, not cleaning off stuff from outside before putting it in an enclosure is to invite trouble, as several members have reported. Most of us use twigs and artificial flowers.

You can feed dubias to any of the large mantids that you are likely to come across. All insects like some variety, though. I have fed dubias to _S. limbata_, the Arizona bordered mantis, which tends to be somewhat small. Just feed the right sized roach! An adullt female Chinese or peacock mantis will take adult dubias with ease.

Get a female. They are larger and fiercer than males for the most part and some give a very nice display of outspread wings when alarmed. Females have plumper abdomens and usually have shorter wings than the males.

If you have already had a deep frost this year, all of the adult mantids will be dead and the nymphs will not hatch from their ootheca until late next spring. In the wild, they will live from the time that they hatch in the spring until the first frost, if they don't get eaten or parastized or stepped on in the meatime. If you want an adult Chinese, say, don't expect it to live for more than a few months.

As Rick suggested, terms like "affordable" and "beautiful" are pretty subjective, but yes, all mantids are beautiful, and I have never bought one yet that I couldn't afford.

Finalment, I would suggest that you spend the winter learning more about mantids and the strange people who keep them, and perhaps catch one (mantis, that is, not strange person) in the wild next summer or buy one from a forum member.

Hope that helps.


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