# 'nother new guy... with questions!



## PaulSan2112 (Oct 28, 2007)

Hello... allow me to introduce myself with this small book:

OK, so I wild-caught what I'm assuming is a Carolina (I don't pretend to know a whole lot... specifically when it comes to sci names) considering it's Georgia that I caught him (actually her... more on that later [i don't pretend to know a whole lot about sexing either]). After a few days at work (at the fire dept... couldn't go home) with which I all I had was a polystyrene cup and clear plastic wrap... it only ate one standard black fly. I kept the plastic wrap beaded with water, and I'm almost sure it partook... No interest in a small house-roach or a lacewing (which the roach ate I believe). Oh yes, it did eat a mosquito-hawk which left a mess of legs in the cup... no interest in a cricket as well (can you tell we had nothing to do at work?)...

Anywho... I finally got home and readied a better container I had from some random invert long ago. Almost cliche'd environment: Rocks on the bottom, about an 1'' of sandy dirt, and a few leaves and humus on the top (mainly for the 8-10 'rolly-pollys' [again, don't know names too well... land-lobsters? lol] which I'm hoping will get eaten... no interest thus far). Of course, the standard small dead branched twigs for climbing. I feel like the environment is sufficient, but very elementary, to say it nicely of myself, haha.

I put him (her) in and went to get the best I could do on such short notice as far as food. I usually have a good local supply of cave crickets (that I used to feed my emperor) in my separated garage (right next to a huge old pear tree... I'm sure that's what keeps that microsystem going haha... plenty of food)... but it's getting cold and the bastards are often hard to catch so there weren't many to even attempt.

So, on to less standard foods, I guess. The easiest this time of year (it was particularly cold today for this location) were of course the aforementioned rolly-pollys. I lucked a (hissing?) beetle grub, fairly plump under some rotting wood. More than a few more minutes only turned up an earwig. Man, it took forever. Again, I'm guessing it's the time of year that most of the more visible insects are either dead or up for the winter. Score last minute a lone bee eating a bit of a now rotting half-pear. I was glad about this too because so far I've had the best luck with flying insects.

Sooooooooooo... no interest in any food that I put in. A small fight with the bee resulted in an injury to the mantis. Now the last 'joint' of the right arm oozes, but it's only a small amount and it keeps cleaning it. I've seen it use it since then, but it seems more guarded (almost as it's limping... which is really hard to tell/explain because the forelimbs are usually kept close anyways). It's already got an injury on the same limb in which the, and I'm going to do my best describing this now, last micro-foot that comes off the end of the largest distal spike... is missing (the one with the two hooks at the very end.... *what's that called?*). Poo. I was angry at myself for even putting the bee (it was only about .5'' in size... the mantis is about 1.75'' in length) in there, but I justified it with the many of pictures I've seen of wild mantis' eating bees. Now, I know that's not standard food, but I was worried about further bites, let alone the single sting, so after a great deal of hassle I separated the bee from the mantis.

I really thought he (she) was going to die. It didn't have interest in any food and just seemed to sit around too much. Now, I don't expect a lot, but it was plenty more active the first few days of its capture. I kept it moist in the cage since I didn't know what else to do. I didn't know if it was the cold approaching (which is stupid considering I keep it indoors now), the natural age of the mantis, the injuries or a combination of, but I was sure it was down for the count. I've seen lethargic animals like this just... well, die.

Then, a random check on it yielded an explanation: it (she!) was in the first few minutes of laying it's eggs... ootheca I guess as I've seen it written many times on these forums. I've been aware of the finished product before, even had one birth (only to have no idea what to do with the nymphs when I was very young), but never seen one laid. I left the room to keep from bothering because I didn't want it cut short due to my interference. I gave it a few hours and come back to a standard sized and shaped ootheca with her guarding over it. Nice surprise. Maybe she'll live yet.

--------------------------------

So at some point in time, I came across these forums. I've read a lot, almost too much to retain, so I have a few questions (I hope I didn't overlook the answers on the forums... they may yet be there, but I didn't see them yet). I hope no one is perturbed to this many questions in my first post, but in my defense, I _DID_ read up in most threads such as captivity, breeding/raising, feeding, etc. *No, I don't have a digital camera* (that works... yet) and I'm aware that pictures would perhaps help the answering of some of my questions. So, if you're feeling froggy enough to help answer any, it will have to be on my descriptions alone.

BTW, a little aside her, but these forums are where I got a few ideas. Most notably; I fed the mantis pure clove honey from a Q-tip several times not long after she laid ('laid' being the correct term?) the ootheca. This was the first sign she actually wanted to keep living and was presumably very famished after such a feat (another aside, the ootheca was HUGE comparatively [to her abdomen which didn't seem unusually swollen]... it must be expanding foam, haha.). I then got a little brave and stuffed the beetle larva into a large straw head-first and offered the tail-end to her face since she wasn't leaving the eggs to hunt at all. She acted a little pissy at first but eventually started eating the end of it live like I was hoping she would. She eat up about halfway and then pulled the rest out of the straw! I was glad because my hand was getting tired holding it in position for her, but I also thought that must have been a horrible death because I felt the larva frantically clawing/pulling on the inside of the straw as if it were trying to get up the straw to safety... to no avail. I was reminded of the movie 'alien' as I watched the mantis eat the grub with mandibles/legs that were still moving even once she made her way to the head... leaving a sack of intestine-wrapped black and brown wood pulp stretching almost the the flooring... it really is quite horrifying if you think about it outside the insect realm and in more human terms. But, that's neither here nor there...

??????????????????????????????'s

1. Are mantis' typically diurnal or nocturnal? I'm assuming it's maybe species-specific? I don't have an exotic type, so how about a standard American mantis (again, Carolina?)?

2. The bee... good food idea or not? Should I "remove" the stinger beforehand? I'm aware it will die not long after that, however. Should I just let nature take its course and assume the greater predator will prevail? This is more of a curiosity on my part; I'm not saying that it's down to only the bee for food (I plan a next-week trip to get feeder crickets and perhaps even start a colony)... I'm just more curious to know if anyone chances feeding bees to their mantis. Obviously, it's already resulted in failure... but maybe that's just a fluke or a low risk that just happened to end against my favor.

3. The rolly-pollys. First, what is the appropriate name? More importantly... does anybody use, in the past even, them as feed? Will the mantis even notice? (ironically, I've always thought of them as leaf-clutter bugs, and thus ground-living exclusively , but these seem to climb the sticks I put in... why, I have no idea... no idea either why I thought they wouldn't/don't climb...).

4. The dirt, humus, leaves, etc. All au naturale. Obviously, an artificial bedding/substrate would be better (perhaps none at all?), but what I'm wondering is; should there be a problem with mites or other type parasites in the short term?

5. *The injuries*. Should I assume if she's eating that she'll just molt away the problem. What to do if the 'bleeding' aka leakage doesn't stop? (wait for death, lol?) How does everyone else fare with injuries? I imagine that nature has a way to heal, but will it happen pre-molt? I could see me trying to bandage the lil' bugger... Also, anyone know what that part of the forelimb I mentioned earlier in this post is called?

6. Lifespan. From what I've read thus far, typically in the better conditions they last from 6-18 months depending on species. Assuming I'm doing everything right, how to tell how much time I have left in her (in other words, how do I tell the age at present)? For these standard mantids (also, is it 'mantis' or 'mantid' and what's the correct pluralization, lol?), what is the typical observed lifespan? Do they die not long after laying eggs, or can I hope for a few more months?

7. Water. What's the best way to water? A small dish? Misting the sides (or her even)? &lt;--and, at what frequency? Will she get enough from live prey so that it's not even need?

8. The ootheca. Now, what to do with it? It's in her enclosure on the biggest branch. Not that I couldn't remove it, but, is there any point at this time? She's guarding it pretty good, so I don't want to bother her. I've heard of cannibalism, but I thought they were lay-and-go type deals? How long until it's pushing it and I need to remove it or risk a birth turning into a feeding? I really haven't seen anything about a female seeing it to hatch, much less rearing young, so I wonder why she's guarding it except out of some sort of pride? Will direct moisture or lack of moisture damage it? I'm pretty sure I'll have plenty of reading a little down the road on what to do with it, and more questions, but I'm just basically wondering if I can ignore it and leave it be for a while. Also, after laying eggs, is that it, or can I expect more from the same fertilization in the future (like a queen ant or something)?

Oh, and I almost forgot to ask: the bee. I know this is a mantis forum, but does anyone know a little bit about what I think is just a typical black/yellow honey bee? The reason I ask is, after separating them, and feeding the mantis honey via a Q-tip, I fed the bee some too (contemplating to let it go or keep it for food, but either way I figured it might be hungry). I had it in a smaller, clear plastic container and watched it feed. It's important to note that it was on *dry* dirt and I hadn't moistened the cage and no water was in any position to fall from the top or my hand as I fed onto the ground near it. Then, when it had its fill, it walked about a inch away, and I swear I saw it do this, position itself such as a urinating dog and *squirt* a few cm away from it's body, out of the tail-end. We're talking high pressure, not just oozed. Now, I guess insects urinate, but I always thought it was mixed in the defecation too (and low-pressure at that, haha). I know bees are communal, so maybe this was pheremonic (not even sure that's a word)? Maybe marking the food source for reference? Again, it was a singular bee. But it was enough to discolor/darken the dirt as to show moisture (it was right on the plastic so it was easy to see the difference in the dry and _soiled_ (&lt;punny) dirt for reference), and after a double-take, sure enough I verified to myself it had indeed squirted something into the dirt. Surely I didn't see an overfeed bee... pee? Any ideas?

Thanks for any and all guidance/help. Don't expect all my posts to be this long... whew.

In the future, I plan to cut my teeth for future mantises by raising this one and maybe the babies if they even survive to hatch.

Then, it's on to more exotics for me (amongst other inverts I'm now researching again), no doubt, haha...

Paul


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## Andrew (Oct 28, 2007)

:blink: 

*passes out*

1. Are mantis' typically diurnal or nocturnal? I'm assuming it's maybe species-specific? I don't have an exotic type, so how about a standard American mantis (again, Carolina?)?

*Both, I don't think they actually sleep. Males are often attracted to lights at night.*

2. The bee... good food idea or not? Should I "remove" the stinger beforehand? I'm aware it will die not long after that, however. Should I just let nature take its course and assume the greater predator will prevail? This is more of a curiosity on my part; I'm not saying that it's down to only the bee for food (I plan a next-week trip to get feeder crickets and perhaps even start a colony)... I'm just more curious to know if anyone chances feeding bees to their mantis. Obviously, it's already resulted in failure... but maybe that's just a fluke or a low risk that just happened to end against my favor.



A lot of people feed bees to their mantids without problems. I would imagine bees make up a large part of their diet in the wild anyways.

It can be difficult and time consuming to culture crickets. If you want something you can culture, try blatta lateralis roaches which I think are a lot like crickets.

3. The rolly-pollys. First, what is the appropriate name? More importantly... does anybody use, in the past even, them as feed? Will the mantis even notice? (ironically, I've always thought of them as leaf-clutter bugs, and thus ground-living exclusively , but these seem to climb the sticks I put in... why, I have no idea... no idea either why I thought they wouldn't/don't climb...).

*Isopods. They arent very practical for feeders. Some hobbyists(not mantid) use them as cleanup crews in their enclosures because they eat pretty much any decomposing material.*

4. The dirt, humus, leaves, etc. All au naturale. Obviously, an artificial bedding/substrate would be better (perhaps none at all?), but what I'm wondering is; should there be a problem with mites or other type parasites in the short term?

*No problem with a more natural substrate. I usually just use paper towel, or if the species needs/likes more humidity, I use moss. They sell moss dried in bags at most garden centers.*

5. *The injuries*. Should I assume if she's eating that she'll just molt away the problem. What to do if the 'bleeding' aka leakage doesn't stop? (wait for death, lol?) How does everyone else fare with injuries? I imagine that nature has a way to heal, but will it happen pre-molt? I could see me trying to bandage the lil' bugger... Also, anyone know what that part of the forelimb I mentioned earlier in this post is called?

*I didn't really read anything but what I am posting here, but if your mantis has wings it is an adult and will not molt again. Nymphs can regenerate limbs and heal injuries after molting, but an adult injured mantis pretty much lives or it doesn't, there isn't anything you can do. It is late in the year so it could be ready to kick the bucket anyways.*

6. Lifespan. From what I've read thus far, typically in the better conditions they last from 6-18 months depending on species. Assuming I'm doing everything right, how to tell how much time I have left in her (in other words, how do I tell the age at present)? For these standard mantids (also, is it 'mantis' or 'mantid' and what's the correct pluralization, lol?), what is the typical observed lifespan? Do they die not long after laying eggs, or can I hope for a few more months?

*Can't really tell the age of an adult mantid. Different species have different lifespans, so what you said is probably pretty accurate. Both mantis and mantid are correct. Mantises and mantids both work I think. Females will continue to lay ootheca(egg cases) at fairly even intervals for as long as they live.*

7. Water. What's the best way to water? A small dish? Misting the sides (or her even)? &lt;--and, at what frequency? Will she get enough from live prey so that it's not even need?

*Depends on the species, but most all mantids enjoy a daily misting. Just point the spray bottle over the lid and spray everything, they don't mind getting wet. Make sure there's plenty of ventilation so the enclosure doesn't get overly humid. They will not drink from a dish.*

8. The ootheca. Now, what to do with it? It's in her enclosure on the biggest branch. Not that I couldn't remove it, but, is there any point at this time? She's guarding it pretty good, so I don't want to bother her. I've heard of cannibalism, but I thought they were lay-and-go type deals? How long until it's pushing it and I need to remove it or risk a birth turning into a feeding? I really haven't seen anything about a female seeing it to hatch, much less rearing young, so I wonder why she's guarding it except out of some sort of pride? Will direct moisture or lack of moisture damage it? I'm pretty sure I'll have plenty of reading a little down the road on what to do with it, and more questions, but I'm just basically wondering if I can ignore it and leave it be for a while. Also, after laying eggs, is that it, or can I expect more from the same fertilization in the future (like a queen ant or something)?

*A female can store sperm so no need to mate more than once, she'll keep laying fertile ootheca but the more she lays, the less nymphs will hatch from each one. Thats generally how it works. They aren't smart enough really to care that someone takes the ootheca, I'm surprised she's guarding it in the first place. Take it, put it in a warm and humid container. lightly mist everything occasionally(maybe once a week), and keep damp paper towel in the bottom to help keep humidity up.*


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## PaulSan2112 (Oct 28, 2007)

Andrew said:


> :blink: *passes out*


sry. yeah. had alot to say?


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## asdsdf (Oct 28, 2007)

Andrew said:


> :blink: *passes out*


I have to second that... :blink: Anyways, *sigh* :lol: 

1. Are mantis' typically diurnal or nocturnal? I'm assuming it's maybe species-specific? I don't have an exotic type, so how about a standard American mantis (again, Carolina?)?

They are almost always diurnal, since they need light to hunt. However, they can eat with artificial light.

2. The bee... good food idea or not? Should I "remove" the stinger beforehand? I'm aware it will die not long after that, however. Should I just let nature take its course and assume the greater predator will prevail? This is more of a curiosity on my part; I'm not saying that it's down to only the bee for food (I plan a next-week trip to get feeder crickets and perhaps even start a colony)... I'm just more curious to know if anyone chances feeding bees to their mantis. Obviously, it's already resulted in failure... but maybe that's just a fluke or a low risk that just happened to end against my favor.

I used to feed my European bees, and no injury. For my flower mantises, I freeze them a little and remove the stingers, then use forceps(large tweezers) to move it enticingly in fron of the mantises.

3. The rolly-pollys. First, what is the appropriate name? More importantly... does anybody use, in the past even, them as feed? Will the mantis even notice? (ironically, I've always thought of them as leaf-clutter bugs, and thus ground-living exclusively , but these seem to climb the sticks I put in... why, I have no idea... no idea either why I thought they wouldn't/don't climb...).

They have been known to be called pill bugs or woodlice. They could be food, but I don't think anyone has used them as a staple diet. (Or even called just isopods)

4. The dirt, humus, leaves, etc. All au naturale. Obviously, an artificial bedding/substrate would be better (perhaps none at all?), but what I'm wondering is; should there be a problem with mites or other type parasites in the short term?

I don't think mantises have any mites, but you could microwave or heat the soil/etc. to kill off any foreign bodies.(don't heat wet rocks, or it'll explode.) It's an option to have an substrate.

5. *The injuries*. Should I assume if she's eating that she'll just molt away the problem. What to do if the 'bleeding' aka leakage doesn't stop? (wait for death, lol?) How does everyone else fare with injuries? I imagine that nature has a way to heal, but will it happen pre-molt? I could see me trying to bandage the lil' bugger... Also, anyone know what that part of the forelimb I mentioned earlier in this post is called?

If an adult, they don't molt anymore. Yours is an adult because of the ootheca it laid. Nymphs can regenerate limbs.

6. Lifespan. From what I've read thus far, typically in the better conditions they last from 6-18 months depending on species. Assuming I'm doing everything right, how to tell how much time I have left in her (in other words, how do I tell the age at present)? For these standard mantids (also, is it 'mantis' or 'mantid' and what's the correct pluralization, lol?), what is the typical observed lifespan? Do they die not long after laying eggs, or can I hope for a few more months?

Yep, your right about the lifespan, but there are, of course, exceptions. I don't think you can tell when it will die unless it's health starts to deteriorate. Females also, usually lay more than one ootheca. Mantises or mantids are the same thing.

7. Water. What's the best way to water? A small dish? Misting the sides (or her even)? &lt;--and, at what frequency? Will she get enough from live prey so that it's not even need?

Just spray the container once in a while. Never use a dish, since they might drown in it. They also get some of their water from their food.

8. The ootheca. Now, what to do with it? It's in her enclosure on the biggest branch. Not that I couldn't remove it, but, is there any point at this time? She's guarding it pretty good, so I don't want to bother her. I've heard of cannibalism, but I thought they were lay-and-go type deals? How long until it's pushing it and I need to remove it or risk a birth turning into a feeding? I really haven't seen anything about a female seeing it to hatch, much less rearing young, so I wonder why she's guarding it except out of some sort of pride? Will direct moisture or lack of moisture damage it? I'm pretty sure I'll have plenty of reading a little down the road on what to do with it, and more questions, but I'm just basically wondering if I can ignore it and leave it be for a while. Also, after laying eggs, is that it, or can I expect more from the same fertilization in the future (like a queen ant or something)?

You don't need to remove the ootheca(some people don't), but I would. Just take it out and put it into a different container and spray once in a while. It doesn't really matter if you spray the ooth directly, unless it doesn't dry off eventually. If she was mated, the ooth should be fertile and so should the ones in the future, until about the 4th I guess.

Whew. Correct me if I'm wrong!


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## asdsdf (Oct 28, 2007)

Anyways, welcome!


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## Andrew (Oct 28, 2007)

For ID purposes.

_Stagmomantis carolina_ - Carolina mantis. They come in various color morphs.







_Tenodera sinensis_ - Chinese mantis. They vary in color a bit too.






_Mantis religiosa _ - European mantis. They come in a few different colors also.






Does it look like any of these? They are the most common mantids in the US, but there are others.

BTW, none of these photos are mine. Stole them from pics that showed up on google images.  

Also, the correct way to write a scientific name. Italic. First letter of first word capitalized, second is lowercase.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.


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## PaulSan2112 (Oct 28, 2007)

asdsdf said:


> Anyways, welcome!


Thanks!



asdsdf said:


> I have to second that... :blink: Anyways, *sigh* :lol: Well, you took your time to reply... thanks!
> 
> 1. Are mantis' typically diurnal or nocturnal? I'm assuming it's maybe species-specific? I don't have an exotic type, so how about a standard American mantis (again, Carolina?)?
> 
> ...


Thanks again! Any idea about the bee? It's still bugging me... too punny, too punny.


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## PaulSan2112 (Oct 28, 2007)

Andrew said:


> For ID purposes._Stagmomantis carolina_ - Carolina mantis. They come in various color morphs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks... I would say it's very much like the first one, only browner and not as speckled (it's rather bland comparatively haha)

I just took the laptop to compare it (can't trust my brain haha) and should I be worried:

She's hanging below the ootheca by only two feet on one side??

Her antennae moving tells me she's still alive/alert?

Also, in my naivety, I would have thought a Chinese, even a European, would be an exotic! learn something new everyday...


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## asdsdf (Oct 28, 2007)

Lol.

Oops, sorry, I meant the 4th ooth.



> If she was mated, the ooth should be fertile and *so should the ones in the future, until about the 4th I guess.*


About the bee, I'm not quite sure it was a bee. I thought bees only drank nectar, and other things such as wasps and hornets will eat fruit. Your's is probably a yellow jacket. Does it look thin? I have no idea that bees/etc. shot stuff out...


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## PaulSan2112 (Oct 28, 2007)

asdsdf said:


> Lol.Oops, sorry, I meant the 4th ooth.
> 
> About the bee, I'm not quite sure it was a bee. I thought bees only drank nectar, and other things such as wasps and hornets will eat fruit. Your's is probably a yellow jacket. Does it look thin? I have no idea that bees/etc. shot stuff out...


LOLOLOL.... ok, about the ooth. I thought you were telling me how long I had until I needed to remove it, or risk her eating them...

About the bee...

Yup. A bee no doubt. Type I dunno what. Typical yellow and black hair. I'm familiar enough to know bees from wasp, even 'cow ants' from ants! lol (I know most people not in this hobby have no idea they are wasp). I know to look for the thin waist etc, diff wings, antennae blah blah blah...

I thought bees drank nectar as well, and believe me, there are plenty of wasps and yellow jackets, hornets even (amongst other creatures around the dead fruit)... but I have seen quite a few bees on them as well. They are usually on the open fruit, so I'm guessing the moisture from the fruit is what they are after... when I fed it honey, it was the tubular mouthpiece, not chewing parts that it used to drink.

yeah, so it was def a bee. I didn't think they shot stuff out either, that's why I was surprised... I guess I need to call Ripley's!


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## Rick (Oct 28, 2007)

Welcome. I feed bees often but just throw them in there. No need to remove the stinger. I find most of my mantids ignore wasps and simiilar insects but wil take bees quickly


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