# my ghost ooth. whens it gonna hatch?



## nympho (May 20, 2008)

hi. i bought a ghost ooth about five weeks ago. it was expensive. i asked seller care instructions but they didnt send any so i kept at 25c and humid. so far no sign of life. getting worried and a bit pissed off to be honest. how long do they take to hatch -i read about a month? what would you do if it didnt hatch ie would u expect/demand a refund or replacement from seller. when should i really start to worry about this ooth, assuming its 6 weeks old at the least? :angry:


----------



## macro junkie (May 20, 2008)

about 4-5weeks give or take a few days...it might still hatch so dont give up hope yet..  

When i sale ooths i sale them with guaranty..if they dont hatch i give them there money back..depends who u got it off..if the guy is only out for money then i very much doubt he will refund u..probably blame u for not havig it i right conditions..

When mine was neallery going to hatch a thin dark line run down the middle of the ooth.


----------



## bugzilla (May 20, 2008)

That's the problem with buying ooths IMO. You can't really get a guarantee of it being fertile in the first place then there are so many variables that could go wrong. I wouldn't have thought too many people would guarantee one will hatch I'm afraid.

Also, if you go it from the likes of E-bay then it's possible the seller knew it was a dud already and the ooth is way older than they told you :angry:


----------



## nympho (May 20, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> When mine was neallery going to hatch a thin dark line run down the middle of the ooth.


nooooo! its had a line since i got it and hasnt changed. maybe it hatched already. heres a pic.







bad feeling about this one. seller says its guaranteed fertile (which means nothing as they cant know), but dont say its guaranteed to hatch (which is a guarentee of buyer satisfaction). i'll see what they say about it. but if it dont hatch soon, im getting my money back even if i have to go round their house lol. &lt;_&lt;


----------



## macro junkie (May 20, 2008)

nympho said:


> nooooo! its had a line since i got it and hasnt changed. maybe it hatched already. heres a pic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


just make sure in future u only buy ooths from respcterball mantis breeders..then if it dont hatch u can work something out..bloody ebay ooth sellers..money making scum bags that dont give a shite if it hatches or not as long as they get there money.any one selling stuff mantids or ooths on ebay is only out for 1 thing..getting as much money as they can. :angry:


----------



## nympho (May 20, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> just make sure in future u only buy ooths from respcterball mantis breeders..then if it dont hatch u can work something out..bloody ebay ooth sellers..money making scum bags that dont give a shite if it hatches or not as long as they get there money.any one selling stuff mantids or ooths on ebay is only out for 1 thing..getting as much money as they can. :angry:


i know what u mean- you do come across the occasional complete w****r! but most are ok in my experience. - so far! we'll see. maybe it'll hatch tomorrow anyway - cos its my birthday! :lol: 

so have u had a bad experience with ebay stuff then?


----------



## Rick (May 20, 2008)

The ooth looks fine. Most ooths take 4-6 weeks. I wouldn't start worrying until after 8 weeks.


----------



## Malnra (May 20, 2008)

got 3 chinese mantis ooths off ebay for 5$ plus 5$ shipping .. all 3 hatched .... considering the price difference between ebay chinese ooths and non ebay, who is trying to make money ;-)


----------



## nympho (May 21, 2008)

Rick said:


> The ooth looks fine. Most ooths take 4-6 weeks. I wouldn't start worrying until after 8 weeks.


ok, cheers for reasuring words. ill keep checking it (lol every five minutes!). what happens before it hatches- any thing to watch out for?


----------



## nympho (May 30, 2008)

this f***ing ghost ooth still hasnt hatched looks like ive been scammed. i think its at least 8 weeks old - probably more like 9 months!

this is the item and seller. now hes not replying to my polite and detailed explanation why he must refund, so now its war.

i ve got the gist of the character of this seller (he makes mistakes before, seems very casual and slow communicator- and hes had plenty of time to apologise and say he will reimburse my money because of his possible mistake). i can forgive him for the unhatched ooth - we all make mistakes but to not offer compensation and run away with money is unforgivable. watch out if you are from the uk thats all i can say.

if i sold something for that amount id be rushing around trying to put things right. the problem with ebay is sellers are often children. they just arnt old enough to know the rules of commerce and moral behaviour.

but hes being quite clever as the hatching time is around the time u get to leave feedback ie just 60 days. i guess he's hoping by the time ppl realize its not going to hatch, its too late to neg.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...N:IT&amp;ih=009

i outlined to him why the glib excuse 'its my fault for not looking after it' is a bad argument. ie its as unwarented as me accusing him of selling a duff ooth with no evidence. the benifit of doubt is always given to the purchaser for his protection unless specific evidence is known.

i had faith in him in sending alot of cash for his word on a fertile ooth, but he's not having the same faith in me. thats just unfair.

also he cannot know its fertile, as many innocent mistakes and problems could occur.

also he packed it badly with no instructions. even though i asked.

and did not state and warn he did not give refunds. wouldnt buy from him if id have known

he says its guaranteed fertile - which means something in trading law

im very cynical so i can think of a specific reason a total git might wanna sell off duff ooths. ie making the cash but no chance of future competition to spoil his little earner.

time to kick some butt with trading standards- he said it was guaranteed and he could definitely be seen as a trader so i can hold him to it :angry:


----------



## bugzilla (May 30, 2008)

Not too sure I like your chances with trading standards, this usually deals with shops rather than hobbyists selling spares.

As I said in my previous post, you always take a risk when buying ooths. I'd take guaranteed fertile to mean a male got jiggy with a female and eggs/babies/ooths have been produced. There's loads of things that can go wrong in the time from laying to hatching.

I've bought most of my mantids from E-bay and haven't had many problems. Only one DOA, but these are living creatures being put through the rigours of Royal mail :blink: . Live arrival of things is easy to offer but hatching eggs can never be guaranteed. Sometimes things are at the buyers risk.

S**t happens


----------



## nympho (May 30, 2008)

bugzilla said:


> Not too sure I like your chances with trading standards, this usually deals with shops rather than hobbyists selling spares.As I said in my previous post, you always take a risk when buying ooths. I'd take guaranteed fertile to mean a male got jiggy with a female and eggs/babies/ooths have been produced. There's loads of things that can go wrong in the time from laying to hatching.
> 
> I've bought most of my mantids from E-bay and haven't had many problems. Only one DOA, but these are living creatures being put through the rigours of Royal mail :blink: . Live arrival of things is easy to offer but hatching eggs can never be guaranteed. Sometimes things are at the buyers risk.
> 
> S**t happens


i disagree. if s**t happens' the person who originated the item and took money in exchange should be responsible -all things being equal; which they are as nobody can know its 'viability' and nobody but me can know the care it was put under. they are both assumptions. again the onus is on the seller to prove his product was sound if it fails to live up to his promise.

that is enough.

but a guarantee is something extra

if you bought a car that was guaranteed of working properly and it broke down on the way home, would the salesmans pleas of ignorance of a fault absolve him of responsibility.

youd be entitled to get him to refund or mend the car, as the guarantee was the reason you bought the car in the first place.

well, he did guarantee (promise) a form of certain success entirely due to its fertility if proper care was given -(which cannot be shown so is totally irrelevent). in writing! but if it had another inherent fault i still want compensation- any other fault is still his responsibility even if he doesnt mention or know it!! remember, no fault from my care can be proven and hense it is an irrelevent plea. guarantee doesnt mean 'i think its ok'. it means 'if s**t happens i will compensate you'. its too bad if he didnt mean that. it leads the buyer to think that and thats what matters.

ive looked at trading standards pages. it depends on whether he is seen as a trader. as he is making lucrative business out of selling on ebay, he could be defined as a trader (there is no hard and fast definition), and therefore normal protection to his customers will apply. and ebay auctions do apply as well.


----------



## mrblue (May 30, 2008)

it's hard to tell from that photo but the eggs (which are layed sllanted to the twig) look very light. it looks empty. either already hatched or infertile. you could cut a section of it open to check?

i just don't see why people would choose to buy mantids/ootheca from ebay. the very fact the seller made the decision to put them on ebay and not on the many forums/listings available suggests they care about one thing above others: getting the most money for the mantids/ootheca as possible. the whole ebay debate has been had here in another thread, so i'll try not to carry it on here.

regardless of the outcome of your quest for compensation (good luck by the way), next time i would recommend buying from a known and reputable breeder on (for example) here. and that's not just 20/20 hindsight talking. being swindled on ebay is way too easy (especially considering the time limit on disputes and the time it takes an ootheca to hatch).


----------



## nympho (May 30, 2008)

mrblue said:


> it's hard to tell from that photo but the eggs (which are layed sllanted to the twig) look very light. it looks empty. either already hatched or infertile. you could cut a section of it open to check?i just don't see why people would choose to buy mantids/ootheca from ebay. the very fact the seller made the decision to put them on ebay and not on the many forums/listings available suggests they care about one thing above others: getting the most money for the mantids/ootheca as possible. the whole ebay debate has been had here in another thread, so i'll try not to carry it on here.
> 
> regardless of the outcome of your quest for compensation (good luck by the way), next time i would recommend buying from a known and reputable breeder on (for example) here. and that's not just 20/20 hindsight talking. being swindled on ebay is way too easy (especially considering the time limit on disputes and the time it takes an ootheca to hatch).


thanks, yeah the zig zag line looks like an exit point, ie it looks like a split has occured down the middle, or they were coming out but they died before i got it. but ive never seen one before so i dont know. maybe someone could confirm if they have that line. the seller has definitely confused things before (fact)so wouldnt be surprised hes just sent the wrong one. his logic is so poor on the 'fertile' argument i just dont trust this fella one bit to do anything right.

also hes just promised a 100% fertile (arrrgg) replacement under duress with an angry accusation failure was my fault on top and no way he'll compensate after that. why not just refund and be done with it. has he got a collection of duff /hatched ooths or something. makes u wonder what the game is. i know its lucrative to sell ghost ooths- and every motivation to stop future competition by sending dead ooths so im v wary.

about ebay - not sure why id automatically know sellers here were more reputable than ebay as at least eba has a feedback system which is some protection. theres nothing for sale on here most of the time anyway if there is its the usa not uk. so not much choice than go with ebay.


----------



## mrblue (May 31, 2008)

nympho said:


> thanks, yeah the zig zag line looks like an exit point, ie it looks like a split has occured down the middle, or they were coming out but they died before i got it. but ive never seen one before so i dont know. maybe someone could confirm if they have that line.


i have five _P.paradoxa_ oothecae incubating at the moment, i'm waiting for the first one layed to hatch, so i know for sure whether they are all fertile or not. mine have a little ridge running along the centre, but it is the same colour as the rest of the oothecae and not a dark line. maybe the line turns dark once hatched? that the oothecae has already hatched seems plausible to me.



> about ebay - not sure why id automatically know sellers here were more reputable than ebay as at least ebay has a feedback system which is some protection.


there is a feedback section both here (the only two mantid forums i go on, but im sure other places must have some kind of feedback system too). the feedback system on ebay is easy to fake and bump up, not to mention that it is for the whole of ebay (so they may have sold a pair of shoes [for arguements sake] in good condition and promptly sent blah blah blah. this gets them +1 feedback, but what does that mean to you? how much of their positive feedback is for selling fertile hatching oothecae for example?). how much positive feedback does this seller have? enough, i bet.



nympho said:


> theres nothing for sale on here most of the time anyway if there is its the usa not uk. so not much choice than go with ebay.


 &lt;_&lt;  

good luck.


----------



## mrblue (Jun 2, 2008)

just thought i would update with a photo of a freshly hatched one






unless you can smooth down the little flaps, it looks like yours was infertile as opposed to already hatched.


----------



## nympho (Jun 2, 2008)

mrblue said:


> just thought i would update with a photo of a freshly hatched one
> 
> 
> 
> ...


no its not like that one. thanks for posting - very interesting. its got little inbuilt doors for them to pop out of. awww lol. so mines definately not hatched then.

anyway he's agreed a refund so thats that

maybe i'll get some nymps or another ooth soon from somewhere.


----------

