# Loops Collection Thread



## Loops117 (May 2, 2016)

Well. I've been slow at acquiring mantids. I started building my enclosure for the group of ghosts, and got carried away with my ant colonies.

Yesterday i bought my first Phyllocrania Paradoxa Ghost Mantis at L4.

First off, these guys are sooooo much cooler in person, and even cooler when they're yours. I built a small enclosure with a plant, moss and rocks yesterday and released him/her (ill need help with this). First off, EVERYTHING is new to him. I let him crawl on my arm and he boxed and attacked a random hair in his path until he finally went around it. He then did that same thing when i introduced him to his new enclosure. Small strand of moss was in his way and he was soooo curious to why it was standing in his path. Pretty sure he's never seen anything other then a hand. and the inside of his container. At first he wanted nothing to do with the plants, dirt, or rocks. The glass only. Sorry if im rambling, but this is friggen awesome.

Anyway, meet Khal Drogo. Or Khaleesi if it's a female.


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## LAME (May 2, 2016)

Its a little male.


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## Loops117 (May 2, 2016)

Thank you. And thats ok!

 don't have plans to mate him unless i can find him a female. Right now his specific duty is to watch the ant colonies. He'll stay out with me while im working on them, and he'll be allowed to take any ant that escape. Which brings me to a new question. The basic mantis care sheet that was made states that termites are good. Does this apply to ants as well? I feed them nectar and other organic foods.


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## LAME (May 2, 2016)

I've never used either, so I can't answer that one. With my ghosts I usually stick with the normal foods (flies,roaches,moths,etc..) and occasionally a bit of honey.


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## Loops117 (May 2, 2016)

I'm picking up a fly and roach culture tmrw. My local shop was out yesterday. My ants will also eat the flies and roaches, so it'll work out.


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## mantisman 230 (May 2, 2016)

Presub male, so he has two sheds till adult


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## Loops117 (May 2, 2016)

I figured. He was sold as an L4, but he also had a molt in his container with him.


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## LAME (May 2, 2016)

I wish I had a lady old enough for him, all I've got at the moment is all L1/2 nymphs and two L4 males.


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## Loops117 (May 2, 2016)

I'm sure i can find someone for him.


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## mantisman 230 (May 2, 2016)

I'm good here xD, I have an adult pair


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## Loops117 (May 4, 2016)

Ok, so the LPS only had Fruit Fly cultures. Until im able to find larger prey, how many and how often should i be feeding him fruit flies?


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## mantisman 230 (May 4, 2016)

You can leave about five or so in with him at a time. And simply add more when those go away


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## Loops117 (May 4, 2016)

He ate 5 in a feeding cup last night. I didnt add any to his habitat, cuz well i didn't know if it would be bothersome to him. Although, it looked like he was searching around for food on the bottom of his enclosure before i fed him.

So, you think 5 at a time should be sufficient and won't bother him?


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## LAME (May 4, 2016)

5 at a time is fine..

If possible, try to look outside during day hours around any dog scat or garbage cans/dumpsters. You can find easy food (blue bottle flies) there.

Night time hours use your outside lights to attract moths and other random smaller flying bugs. Also easy food.

Just use a deli cup or something to catch them in, with moths I usually just hand catch.

Not sure of your local areas weather, but just a few ideas.


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## mantisman 230 (May 4, 2016)

I let a banana go royally bad and put it in the hot sun xD there is a swarm of greenbottles within ten minutes xD


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## CosbyArt (May 5, 2016)

Glad to see you got your first mantid.  

Speaking of your ant's did you get anywhere on your build?


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## Loops117 (May 5, 2016)

Awesome! It's good to know i can use wild caught prey. I was
n't too sure on it since i read a couple horror stories on here. What about house spiders? Can he have fun with those?

And with my ant's, i have not gotten as far as i was planning on. I'm in the process of building a 5"x7" formicarium and outworld for a colony of Yellow Meadow Ants that are currently living in a panera cup. I put the big project on hold for now until i'm comfortable with both hobbies being together. Not to mention, i want to design it for a specific species of ants, and i have not found that specific species of ants yet.

Here's a video of Khal eating. I know you've all seen them catch food, but this is awesome to me


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## Loops117 (Jun 16, 2016)

Update!

Pretty sure both my mantids are at adult stage, which is exciting for me. I let them walk around my ant formis when i'm working on them. 

Here's a short video of my collection.


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## JoeWilliamson (Jun 16, 2016)

Really interested in starting an ant farm, would be great to see more in the Other Insects and Invertebrates page of the forum!


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## Loops117 (Jun 16, 2016)

I can teach you how to start your first.... It's a very captivating hobby. And about 10x cheaper then my mantids. For instance, every container and nest you see for my ants added up still doesnt touch the cost of my male ghost, let alone my female. Right now, i'm waiting on my ghost pair to mate. Then i'll be colonizing them in a large communal tank.


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## JoeWilliamson (Jun 16, 2016)

Really? On all of the UK sites they seem to be considerably more expensive what with equipment and everthing? http://antsuk.com/


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## Loops117 (Jun 16, 2016)

All my ants i found for free, and i'm more then happy to give pointers, and point you to a good forum for anting.

Also, i don't buy any pre-made stuff. I make all my nests myself, which cuts down on cost considerably. The smaller nests and outworlds you see in the video cost me approx $4 to make. $1 for the clear container, $2.50 for the lexan, which i cut myself, and the screws. You could honestly make a huge nest for even cheaper with clear Tupperware and some tubing. Feeding is also cheaper considering they'll eat whatever you eat, just much smaller portions. I'd say if you're looking to get into it, start checking out ants around your house and see what's common. Flights happen throughout the warmer months, which is good for beginners. Queens and Drones will be flying/mating/swarming, and that's usually how you find your start.


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## dmina (Jun 20, 2016)

Congrats on your Ghosts making it to adult! and the success of your ant farms..


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## Loops117 (Jun 20, 2016)

dmina said:


> Congrats on your Ghosts making it to adult! and the success of your ant farms..


Thank you. And, isn't one of my mantids supposed to have wings, or some form? The male i think? He doesn't have anything that i've noticed. And they look smaller then theye supposed to. Both my male and female were bought at L5, and they've both had two successful molts. Plenty of food, and high humidity all the time. Any clue?


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## dmina (Jun 20, 2016)

Oh I thought you said they made it to adult... Yes, both should have wings that is when they are adult... In the one video I seen their bud wings...so more likely the next molt will bring them into adulthood... Ghosts have nice wings... so you will know when the wings come in...


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## Loops117 (Jun 20, 2016)

Yes, both had reached L7, or what i believe to be L7 before this video was shot. Both bought at L5, and both had two molts since purchase. Did i not feed these guys enough?


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## Loops117 (Jun 20, 2016)

Wait, dedicated care sheet says 7 molts....That means they stop at L8 and not L7? If so, i am sorry.


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## Sarah K (Jun 20, 2016)

Loops117 said:


> Wait, dedicated care sheet says 7 molts....That means they stop at L8 and not L7? If so, i am sorry.


yes.....you did not do anything wrong yet....you have one more molt left!


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## Loops117 (Jun 20, 2016)

Sarah K said:


> yes.....you did not do anything wrong yet....you have one more molt left!


Thank you!

Should i separate them after they molt for a couple of weeks? They've never been separated since purchase.


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## Sarah K (Jun 20, 2016)

Loops117 said:


> Thank you!
> 
> Should i separate them after they molt for a couple of weeks? They've never been separated since purchase.


I would. Not sure if it really matters, but I have seen that my males (several different species) seem more interested in mating with the females after a separation period. Once they both molt to adulthood, I would separate them for two or three weeks, and when you reintroduce the female to him, he should be much more excited to see her, and it should spur him into action.


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## Loops117 (Jun 20, 2016)

Sarah K said:


> I would. Not sure if it really matters, but I have seen that my males (several different species) seem more interested in mating with the females after a separation period. Once they both molt to adulthood, I would separate them for two or three weeks, and when you reintroduce the female to him, he should be much more excited to see her, and it should spur him into action.


Thank you very much. I'll be doing this.


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## Sticky (Jun 20, 2016)

Loops117 said:


> I'm picking up a fly and roach culture tmrw. My local shop was out yesterday. My ants will also eat the flies and roaches, so it'll work out.


Ants can kill your mantids so I would avoid feeding them to your mantids.


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## Loops117 (Jun 21, 2016)

Sticky said:


> Ants can kill your mantids so I would avoid feeding them to your mantids.


Oh yes, i am fully aware of the capabilities of an ant. They stay completely separate. But i can't speak for the 1 or 2 that get out on occasion while feeding.... =D


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## Loops117 (Jul 22, 2016)

This time it's true. My pokemon have finally hit their last evolution.

Khal and Khaleesi are are adults now. I've split them up since night 1 of adulthood. Since then, i've noticed some strange behavior. The first full day of adulthood, both Khal and Khaleesi's heads were fixated on one another, and would re position if i put anything between them. Also, not once have they hung from the top of their vivarium, or tried to escape. Well, since i removed my female, my male has been hanging from the top screen and starring intently out the door, his face practically pressed up against the glass. I think he misses his mate. This is the first time they've been apart since i bought Khaleesi. Which btw, she threw a fit when she realized she was being separated.


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## Loops117 (Jul 22, 2016)

Ooops, forgot this.


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## Sarah K (Jul 22, 2016)

Loops117 said:


> This time it's true. My pokemon have finally hit their last evolution.
> 
> Khal and Khaleesi are are adults now. I've split them up since night 1 of adulthood. Since then, i've noticed some strange behavior. The first full day of adulthood, both Khal and Khaleesi's heads were fixated on one another, and would re position if i put anything between them. Also, not once have they hung from the top of their vivarium, or tried to escape. Well, since i removed my female, my male has been hanging from the top screen and starring intently out the door, his face practically pressed up against the glass. I think he misses his mate. This is the first time they've been apart since i bought Khaleesi. Which btw, she threw a fit when she realized she was being separated.


There you go! Now they have the wings they are supposed to have.   They both look really good! Sounds like they will be super excited to reconnect when you finally put them together again! Over the last month or so, my ghosts have finally started molting to adulthood too. I need to update my collection thread with pics again.


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## Loops117 (Jul 22, 2016)

Sarah K said:


> There you go! Now they have the wings they are supposed to have.   They both look really good! Sounds like they will be super excited to reconnect when you finally put them together again! Over the last month or so, my ghosts have finally started molting to adulthood too. I need to update my collection thread with pics again.


ty ty. I've been super excited for this day to come. Do mantids have feelings? Cuz i think Khal is missing his girl.


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## Sarah K (Jul 22, 2016)

Loops117 said:


> ty ty. I've been super excited for this day to come. Do mantids have feelings? Cuz i think Khal is missing his girl.


Perhaps!? They definitely seem much more intelligent than a lot of other insects, if you ask me!


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## Loops117 (Jul 22, 2016)

Lol, my mantids have separation anxiety.


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## Sticky (Jul 27, 2016)

Loops117 said:


> ty ty. I've been super excited for this day to come. Do mantids have feelings? Cuz i think Khal is missing his girl.


Of course they do!

They feel enjoyment, anger, fear, curiosity, hate.....

Their feelings are simpler than ours, but also are definitely there.


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## Loops117 (Aug 25, 2016)

Hey guys. It finally happened. I added the two together the other night and they mated. I put the female back in her cup cuz i didnt want her to lay her eggs on the screen top. Should i have waited longer?


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## CosbyArt (Aug 26, 2016)

For most species you only want them together long enough to mate; however, with Ghosts there is no hurry. Other than that it's up to you when to separate them.


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## Sarah K (Aug 26, 2016)

Loops117 said:


> Hey guys. It finally happened. I added the two together the other night and they mated. I put the female back in her cup cuz i didnt want her to lay her eggs on the screen top. Should i have waited longer?


Congrats on a successful mating! As long as you seen the connection, no problem with separating them as soon as he is off her back. Even with ghosts there is still a risk of the female going after the male. I mated all my ghost girls with the same male. No one was aggressive towards him before they mated with him, but when he tried to get on one of my girls backs again a week later, she grabbed him and nearly ate him! Luckily, I was watching them at the time, and was able to intervene before it was too late for him!


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## Loops117 (Aug 26, 2016)

Oh, it happened. I added them together at about 10PM. It was 4am when i checked them again, and he was going at it again. So i let him stay until i woke up for work and they were finally separated. Male connected about 6 times that i counted.


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## LazarusMantid (Aug 26, 2016)

Ahhh baby ghosts are coming! So excited for you!


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## Loops117 (Aug 26, 2016)

How long am i to wait between mating, and laying. Then laying and hatching?


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## Loops117 (Aug 27, 2016)

Welp, first question was asked. Her first ootheca has been laid. Shoot, i havent read this far yet.

Edit: Ok, so i read that i have to suspend the ootheca in a container at room temp ...etc... Well, she laid her ootheca on theunderside of her 32oz cup screen lid. Do i just put her in a new container and leave the ootheca container in the bug cupboard for a while?


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## CosbyArt (Aug 27, 2016)

Loops117 said:


> Welp, first question was asked. Her first ootheca has been laid. Shoot, i havent read this far yet.
> 
> Edit: Ok, so i read that i have to suspend the ootheca in a container at room temp ...etc... Well, she laid her ootheca on theunderside of her 32oz cup screen lid. Do i just put her in a new container and leave the ootheca container in the bug cupboard for a while?


If her first ooth was laid that soon after mating the ooth is most likely infertile - a dud.

Currently the ooth is a soft marshmallow type mess for at least 24 hours, so let it harden before you do anything. The female will be protective of it and will only cause her more stress if you do anything so soon as well. It's easier to remove as well once it hardens, and you risk damaging the eggs much less.

In reality you can leave the ooths with her until they are about ready to hatch, or you sell them, as it hurts nothing leaving them in there unless it is a tiny container as it could be covered in ooths in a few months (my ghost female laid 14 ooths before she died). Also the ooths will be in optimal temperature and humidity in their mother's habitat, so why move until you have to.

Ideally though you should leave the mantid mother in her own habitat, as many mantids will get upset if moved to a new home.

If changing out the lid with another habitat with the same size lid is a option just do that to collect the ooth, and place it on the other habitat if possible. Otherwise the easiest method is once the ooth has dried (I prefer to let mine dry multiple days) carefully pry one corner of the ooth up (I use a small knife tip or flat/slotted screwdriver blade) and usually they will come loose completely - if not a little rocking side-to-side will make it come loose (much easier than it sounds, I did it with my Ghost female ooths without issue).


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## Loops117 (Aug 27, 2016)

Ithink it was 4 days in between mating and laying. So, we'll find out. As for changing out the lid,, i'm gonna just put it on another cup and her witha  new lid.

Thank you guys for the help!


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## dmina (Oct 11, 2016)

Congrats Loops!  they look great! Any babies yet?


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## Loops117 (Oct 12, 2016)

No babies yet. 2 Othecas, and kaleesi is still alive. My male died though =(

Am i supposed to have babies yet?


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## Sarah K (Oct 12, 2016)

Loops117 said:


> No babies yet. 2 Othecas, and kaleesi is still alive. My male died though =(
> 
> Am i supposed to have babies yet?


My fist two ghost ooths hatched exactly 37 days after being laid, and were  incubated between 75 and 77 degrees F. I think it can take longer if the ooths are kept colder. Also, did she only lay one ooth, or are there multiple ooths you are waiting on to hatch?


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## Loops117 (Oct 12, 2016)

She laid two. I'll take some photos later tonight.


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## dmina (Nov 16, 2016)

How are thing going? any updates?


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## KevinsWither (Nov 17, 2016)

So cool with the ant farms and everything. I love it! Anyways how did you find those ants?


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## Loops117 (Nov 17, 2016)

KevinsWither said:


> So cool with the ant farms and everything. I love it! Anyways how did you find those ants?


Thank you. And i collected my ants in the wild. Not too hard to find your first queen. Then it's addicting after that.

I started a website for my ant projects. I am selling ant items and formicaria that i create myself.

http://117colonies.com/



dmina said:


> How are thing going? any updates?


Unfortunately none. She's still alive, but her two oothecas didn't hatch. I thought i did everything right. Perhaps she wasnt ever fertilized? My Khal was shooting blanks.


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## Loops117 (Jul 11, 2017)

Hey guys, it's been one heck of a long time since my last update. Since then, my two P.paradoxa mantids have passed away. The oothecas left behind were also infertile so i was unable to continue to with species. BUT! I have recently captured an L3 Tenodera sinensis??? Not sure, but he/she has been moved to the community. So far she's taken a couple ants from inside the community, but that's it. The species of ants that live in the community are known as Coconut ants, or _T.sessile. _This species does not prey on living insects, and will only scavenge on dead/dying insects. So far they've been in the setup for over a month and i've had zero issues.

May eventually switch out the green mantis for a small colony of Ghost mantids. I wanna buy an ootheca.

Here's a video, hope you guys like it.





Loops


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## Sticky (Jul 12, 2017)

I love it!!!  This setup is wonderful! You really care about your creatures. The music is perfect for it too. Who made the music?


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## CosbyArt (Jul 13, 2017)

@Loops117 Lots of various creatures for sure in there, glad you found something that is working for you. Although it appears you went bigger and did a whole bio-dome setup with at least seven species.  

I've been keeping local millipedes and snails in with my isopods anymore that I collect, and they seem to flourish too.


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## Loops117 (Jul 13, 2017)

Sticky said:


> I love it!!!  This setup is wonderful! You really care about your creatures. The music is perfect for it too. Who made the music?


I pulled the song from a random nature music search. And thank you! I've always been a fan of multi-species habitats. I sit and stare at their setup for long periods of time and each time it's like there's something new. i know every species of insect in the setup, and yet it's like i'm seeing them for the first time when they're all out and about.



CosbyArt said:


> @Loops117 Lots of various creatures for sure in there, glad you found something that is working for you. Although it appears you went bigger and did a whole bio-dome setup with at least seven species.
> 
> I've been keeping local millipedes and snails in with my isopods anymore that I collect, and they seem to flourish too.


It's such an awarding feeling when you have multiple species co-existing. This community started off in the tank i had originally planned to use for this entire build a year ago, and had out grown it. I also had to rethink how i was going to create a habitat that would also house ants without looking like a bunch of plastic within the habitat. I gave up on that.

I just found a bunch of larva and pupae from my darkling beetles. I wild collected about 10 back in march during my trip to Arizona and the Sonoran Desert. Since then I’ve been finding their larva throughout the entire setups substrate. The ants were an accident tho, lol.







One of my hoppers had jumped and smacked the lid of their setup which startled my dog. He ran downstairs and stopped himself on a formicarium with a 20+ queen colony of Tapinoma sessile, also known as the Coconut ant. He snapped one of their connectors off, and I hadn’t realized it until it was too late (5 hours later). I was missing about 5 queens and 600 workers. 3 days later, I find them all in the community tank. Luckily this species doesn’t prey on living insects, and they like fruits and veggies. Decided to let them stay, and now they’re flourishing. They’re also able to leave the setup and find a new home considering my screen lid cannot contain them at all. (part of the reason I moved the community outside). I’m also hoping that the T.sessile help keep Camponotus pennsylvanicus (carpenter ant) at bay, and from attacking the community. Daily I find carpenter ants trying to break into my formicaria and other insect holding containers.

Also, now I have a new insect that had moved in on the 2nd day of the community being outside in the garage. Yesterday as I was planting some carrot in the setup, I found about 4 adult north American earwigs. Luckily these guys are scavengers, so I’m not worried about them messing with the other inhabitants. If anything, I’m happy to have them in the community as they will help keep the tank clean.

Soon I will be adding giant orange, powder blue, and purple isopods to help aid my clean-up crew with the new load of inhabitants.


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## CosbyArt (Jul 15, 2017)

@Loops117 Interesting to hear how the ants were added, a scared dog.  With the new additions it sounds more like a full fledged ecosystem than communal tank, with only flies missing at this point. I'm curious as you keep it outdoors now, do you house it in a shed/garage? Being in Michigan will you be heating it over winter or bringing it back in? Just curious to hear about your plans to keep it going.  

Great you were able to collect the beetles yourself, I know it makes things more special for me when I can do that. Amazing they are thriving so well too, seems the communal setup is agreeing with them.


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## Loops117 (Jul 16, 2017)

Yes, i keep my community in the garage with the rest of my insects and ant collections. It's also were i do most of my work, so i figured i should put something relaxing out there as well. I have flies trying to get in, and i'll see something small buzzing around on occasion, but that's about it. The little mantis has also molted into an L4. Pretty happy about that.

Right now the community is being heated 24/7 by a heat mat adhered to the bottom of the tank. But for over winter, i will be bringing them into the house.


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## CosbyArt (Jul 17, 2017)

@Loops117 Amazing the mantis molted without issue with so many others around, seems he is fine in the setup for sure. It really is a accomplishment to have a setup with mantids and ants that you wanted, and even more with them too.  

Enjoy your setup, and keep us updated.


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## Loops117 (Jul 17, 2017)

Im pretty happy about it. I am a little upset he'll need to be taken out though. He's getting big enough to start picking at my smaller insects. He has another molt to go until he's moved into his own setup. With that being said, i'll be looking for a Phyllocrania paradoxa ootheca soon. Wouldnt mind hatching some of those guys and leaving a few in there. 



CosbyArt said:


> @Loops117 Amazing the mantis molted without issue with so many others around, seems he is fine in the setup for sure. It really is a accomplishment to have a setup with mantids and ants that you wanted, and even more with them too.
> 
> Enjoy your setup, and keep us updated.


Thank you. So far everyone seems to be happy and well fed. The mantis has been eating the random small flies that get attracted to the light.


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## hymenopus (Jul 21, 2017)

If you want ghosts I have an L5 and I would be happy to give you an oothecae when she gets mated to a male I'll buy soon!


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## Loops117 (Jul 21, 2017)

I would be more then happy. I havent started looking for one yet, but should.

Thank you.


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## hymenopus (Jul 21, 2017)

Do you know mantisplace.com I bought a giant asian adult and got ghost L5 free!


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## hymenopus (Jul 21, 2017)

Rebecca is very nice and includes free ghosts! The Hierodula Membranacea  adult is very nice would reccomend alot!


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## Loops117 (Jul 21, 2017)

I'll have to check them out. I might go with a squad of violin mantids instead depending on her rates.


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