# Easy feeders to culture?



## patrickfraser (Nov 10, 2012)

I just bought some mealworms and I am going to try to culture them. They seem to need minimal care and space. They seem pretty easy to culture after reading about them a little. I raise my own hydei fruitflies, BBs, and dubia and hisser roaches. I thought I'd add a "wormy" item into the mix. I don't do well with silkworms and have never tried hornworms, as they seem like too much work. Does anybody culture any other feeder that is easy?


----------



## petoly (Nov 10, 2012)

doesn't get any easier than mealworms. you can pretty much forget to feed them for weeks and they just don't die, not saying you should but just know they are super tough. not sure if there's anything as easy if not easier than them. other than roaches. If you know what you're doing which you do, then most feeders are easier. Crickets are super easy. They just take separate bins and smell bad, not to mention the constant chirping. springtails and isopods maybe? same thing if you have them setup right they are super easy.


----------



## Golden State Vivs (Nov 10, 2012)

I agree, it doesn't get much easier than mealworms.

Most species of roaches are very easy to culture, as are isopods, bean beetles, and springtails.


----------



## drolkp84 (Nov 13, 2012)

If ur looking for a cricket that's silent go for the camel cricket... they're pretty cool looking and I use to feed them to my scorpions.


----------



## patrickfraser (Nov 13, 2012)

I just ordered some superworms and gonna give them a try.


----------



## petoly (Nov 13, 2012)

I never did superworms because I don't like the idea of having a buttload of individual cups for each individual worm. Let me know how you do with them =)


----------



## patrickfraser (Nov 13, 2012)

They only need to be separated when you want them to pupate to get beetles to breed more larva. They will not pupate, supposedly, when in a colony setting, so I think it will be easy. I'd say 25 individual cups would be plenty. Once pupated, you can keep all the pupae together to hatch into beetles. If I remove a pupae, I'll replace it with another worm. Should be simple. You'll know when I start selling my excess.


----------



## Malakyoma (Nov 28, 2012)

I don't keep pupae together in case the first beetle to hatch decides the others look tasty. I have about 20 pupae right now, one just hatched today. The others should be hatching slowly over the month and I have more worms separated pupating every day.

As for isopods, I'm having a hard time finding a good place to order from. Bugs in cyberspace doesn't ship to canada and Double Ds doesn't sell substrate for them. No substrate and I cant raise the isopods. Anyone know what I should do? maybe give me a recipe to mix my own substrate? Maybe a good substrate from the pet store? how do I get the isopods? and whats the best way to gurantee alive arrival?


----------



## Reptiliatus (Nov 29, 2012)

Malakyoma said:


> I don't keep pupae together in case the first beetle to hatch decides the others look tasty. I have about 20 pupae right now, one just hatched today. The others should be hatching slowly over the month and I have more worms separated pupating every day.
> 
> As for isopods, I'm having a hard time finding a good place to order from. Bugs in cyberspace doesn't ship to canada and Double Ds doesn't sell substrate for them. No substrate and I cant raise the isopods. Anyone know what I should do? maybe give me a recipe to mix my own substrate? Maybe a good substrate from the pet store? how do I get the isopods? and whats the best way to gurantee alive arrival?


I have isopods living in some of my enclosures. I just collected wild ones and they have been breeding and thriving in my planted enclosures, consuming waste and moist leaf litter and compost substrate.


----------



## Malakyoma (Nov 29, 2012)

Reptiliatus said:


> I have isopods living in some of my enclosures. I just collected wild ones and they have been breeding and thriving in my planted enclosures, consuming waste and moist leaf litter and compost substrate.


I was thinking of trying that too, but I was hoping on getting some metalyticus nymphs in the spring, and I dont think there would be enough time for them to start breeding in the culture If I started collecting when the snow melted. I wont be finding any right now lol. I was also going to order some different species, was looking at the Orange, Dwarf white, and large Spring tails.


----------



## garin33 (Dec 7, 2012)

Patrick have you tried waxworms? I have read that they are pretty easy to culture and they do turn into moths so you can also feed the moths. I have not tried them yet but plan to soon. I like the idea of culturing moths or butterflies.

I think Mime454 is breeding them? How's that going Mime?

I have grain moths that have been breeding in my Lateralis roach colony and I have been feeding them to my creos and ghosts and they seem to really like them. However, I'm not sure how long that is going to last.


----------



## Mime454 (Dec 7, 2012)

garin33 said:


> Patrick have you tried waxworms? I have read that they are pretty easy to culture and they do turn into moths so you can also feed the moths. I have not tried them yet but plan to soon. I like the idea of culturing moths or butterflies.
> 
> I think Mime454 is breeding them? How's that going Mime?
> 
> I have grain moths that have been breeding in my Lateralis roach colony and I have been feeding them to my creos and ghosts and they seem to really like them. However, I'm not sure how long that is going to last.


I fed them off at the first generation. They were puny and not worth the time. I don't even know how you go about breeding them. They weren't for me.

For the record, I'm pretty sure that mine were inferior stock. I got them from Petsmart and they were pretty lifeless. Had about a 1% pupation rate. I was very dissatisfied, but Rebecca or others might have better stock.


----------



## garin33 (Dec 7, 2012)

Hi Mime and thanks for the report.

It's too bad it didn't work out. I was hoping it would be easy but it doesn't sound that way. I'm hoping maybe there is another moth species that is easy to breed.

What do you think Rebecca? Do you have the same pupation issue with your stock?

Patrick, how's the superworms coming along?


----------



## patrickfraser (Dec 7, 2012)

I think the superworms are still growing and not ready to pupate. I remove a group and they do nothing in a week, so I throw them back in the bin. They are still molting, as I find white ones in there. I just don't know how to tell when they are full grown and ready to pupate. One of the ones I had out to pupate actually molted, so I know it wasn't ready to pupate. I have only found one dead worm, so they are keeping well.

I have found another feeder that is also a helper. When I received my superworms there were a couple dermestid beetles and larva. I hucked them into my roach bin, as they are sold as "cleaning crews" and I thought, "Why not?". They have been cleaning up a storm. They have also been reproducing well and are becoming quite numerous. The larva are tiny to about 1/2" and perfect for smaller mantids.


----------



## Mime454 (Dec 7, 2012)

garin33 said:


> Hi Mime and thanks for the report.
> 
> It's too bad it didn't work out. I was hoping it would be easy but it doesn't sound that way. I'm hoping maybe there is another moth species that is easy to breed.
> 
> ...


I think that he issue was that they came from the refrigerator at the store. No telling how long they had been in there, I can't imagine they're very popular.


----------



## Malakyoma (Dec 7, 2012)

patrickfraser said:


> I think the superworms are still growing and not ready to pupate. I remove a group and they do nothing in a week, so I throw them back in the bin. They are still molting, as I find white ones in there. I just don't know how to tell when they are full grown and ready to pupate. One of the ones I had out to pupate actually molted, so I know it wasn't ready to pupate. I have only found one dead worm, so they are keeping well.
> 
> I have found another feeder that is also a helper. When I received my superworms there were a couple dermestid beetles and larva. I hucked them into my roach bin, as they are sold as "cleaning crews" and I thought, "Why not?". They have been cleaning up a storm. They have also been reproducing well and are becoming quite numerous. The larva are tiny to about 1/2" and perfect for smaller mantids.


My superbeetles number at 7 unless more eclosed today. it takes a week or two for them to pupate, and I found worms that molted after I separated them would still pupate. Seems some of the worms I bought a month and a bit ago are dying off though, so that seems their lifespan.


----------



## patrickfraser (Dec 9, 2012)

I picked out some of the largest dermestid larva to photograph. They are like little "fuzzy wuzzies"







My mealworms have also become beetles. Now I wait for baby worms.


----------



## Malakyoma (Dec 9, 2012)

Just when I think I have no more mealworm pupa about to hatch, I pull open the drawer and there's maybe 200 beetles. Already transfered them once, waiting on worms too. I have about 13 Superworm beetles now too.


----------



## patrickfraser (Dec 9, 2012)

I think mealworms may be too easy. I just wish they were bigger. I will take out some superworms to pupate and cross my fingers.


----------



## petoly (Dec 9, 2012)

Patrick, be careful with the dermestid beetles in the roach bins. I also have them in mine, however you have to watch their population, and control it. Otherwise they will take over and eat everything. The beetles grow and reproduce much faster than the roaches, and when there's no carcases for them to eat they will eat the roach food. wouldn't want to be feeding dermestid beetles instead of roaches.


----------



## patrickfraser (Dec 9, 2012)

As long as they don't start to eat the live roaches. :lol: I actually found a female dubia not dead, but the abdomen and contents eaten out. I think it was probably one that prolapsed and became susceptible to the "cleaning crew".


----------



## garin33 (Dec 9, 2012)

Nice Patrick. Nothing better than free feeders and a clean up crew and you didn't have to do anything. Too bad everything in life was as easy as that!

That's how I felt when I saw all those grain moths emerging in my roach bin. However, I fed them all off so they are gone now  . However, it was fun while it lasted.

Be nice if they just kept reappearing every month. I never even saw the larvae or pupae.


----------



## patrickfraser (Dec 10, 2012)

Mealworm beetles work, too.


----------



## Malakyoma (Dec 10, 2012)

patrickfraser said:


> Mealworm beetles work, too.


Ever tried feeding one that was fully black and hard?


----------



## patrickfraser (Dec 10, 2012)

I haven't tried the fully hardened ones. I leave them to breed and lay eggs. I have lots of beetles hatching.


----------



## Malakyoma (Dec 10, 2012)

patrickfraser said:


> I haven't tried the fully hardened ones. I leave them to breed and lay eggs. I have lots of beetles hatching.


Same. there's probably 200 in my drawer now. more pupae as well. The thing I love about superworm beetles is the glossy raven-black they become. Its actually really pretty.


----------



## Malakyoma (Dec 11, 2012)

Something I discovered in my Superworm drawer today: A Little while ago I put the top half of a sub sandwhich bun in there because I heard it gives them extra nutrition. Well today when I cracked open the old sub bun and put in a new one, pupae fell out. I think they burrowed their way inside, made their own rooms, and pupated inside the bread. But I've found 3 pupae now which pupated in the culture with the rest of the superworms (Not many left. Most pupated)


----------



## patrickfraser (Dec 11, 2012)

Maybe I'll buy some rolls and throw them in. I also tried a fully hardened and black beetle with my stalli and it ate it right up. They are not really that hard.


----------



## Malakyoma (Dec 11, 2012)

My adult female marbled ate a nearly hardened superworm beetle today. thought it might be a little big but guess not.


----------



## patrickfraser (Dec 18, 2012)

I bought some pill sorters yesterday and have separated about 40 superworms. How long does it take for them to pupate? If these do pupate, it indicates that the rest of the colony will do so, as well. I have a lot of superworms and was wondering how long they will live before just dying off. Since they will not pupate in a colony, I am assuming they'd just die off if unable to pupate.


----------



## Malakyoma (Dec 18, 2012)

patrickfraser said:


> I bought some pill sorters yesterday and have separated about 40 superworms. How long does it take for them to pupate? If these do pupate, it indicates that the rest of the colony will do so, as well. I have a lot of superworms and was wondering how long they will live before just dying off. Since they will not pupate in a colony, I am assuming they'd just die off if unable to pupate.


about a week or two. And they can pupate at almost any stage. I actually have a pupa waiting to hatch about half the size of other pupa. Mine live about a month to a month and a half so far, but some of them actually pupated in culture before dying as well.


----------



## Malakyoma (Dec 24, 2012)

My Superworm beetles actually drink from a water dish... how about that.


----------



## Malakyoma (Dec 26, 2012)

P.S... I don't recommend the water dish idea. made a little bit of a mess with the oats...

I was just wondering if anyone knew the differences in nutrition value between worm/pupa/beetle. I imagine pupa has the most readily accessible nutrition since its all goo on the inside that needs to rebuild itself. I also imagine the beetle has more complex sugars which I BELIEVE is what makes up the shell. Could be wrong though. Basically if you want to get the max nutrition from a meal/super, what stage should you feed it to your mantids? I fed pupae for the first time today. My Popa has a messy face now lol.

One of my griffins molted to L7 today too. Very big. I think tomorrow night I'm going to give her a super pupa and see how she likes it.


----------



## patrickfraser (Dec 30, 2012)

*I GOT PUPAE!*​*



*​


----------



## Malakyoma (Dec 30, 2012)

that looks really fresh. My second batch of pupae are almost ready. Got another 40 in the drawer, once they all turn I'll put them in the beetle drawer and throw another 40 worms in the drawer.


----------



## patrickfraser (Dec 30, 2012)

It is poppin fresh. First one found today. I am just glad to know it's going right. First timer's syndrome, you know? :lol:


----------



## Malakyoma (Dec 30, 2012)

I basically forget about mine for days. Woke up this morning and thought "Oh I haven't checked the supers in a while"... Theres one dead and ten pupae or so.


----------



## sinensispsyched (Dec 30, 2012)

It doesn't get any easier than fruit flies IMO.


----------



## patrickfraser (Dec 30, 2012)

sinensispsyched said:


> It doesn't get any easier than fruit flies IMO.


Yeah, i got that one down pat.


----------



## sinensispsyched (Dec 30, 2012)

Oh sorry, I believe I read what you said before, but, since I'm rather inexperienced, not much is easy for me in terms of feeder insects.

As others have said, mealworms are also pretty forgiving. I left my culture at home during the summer, and, when I came back, I found another generation.


----------



## Malakyoma (Jan 3, 2013)

sinensispsyched said:


> Oh sorry, I believe I read what you said before, but, since I'm rather inexperienced, not much is easy for me in terms of feeder insects.
> 
> As others have said, mealworms are also pretty forgiving. I left my culture at home during the summer, and, when I came back, I found another generation.


Yeah I dont see the problem with having a big tank with tons of mealworms in it and just let them pupate, eclose, breed all right there. Its just a matter of the adult beetles potentially eating the eggs/worms. I separate mine to maximize the amount of individuals in a new generation.

In other news I pulled 30 pupae out of the drawer today, also 6 dead worms  . Replaced all of them. Still maybe 150 supers in their bucket.


----------



## patrickfraser (Jan 3, 2013)

My process has begun and pupae are being removed and replaced with new worms. I am using three "7-day" pill sorters. I have A LOT of superworms still. I don't know if I'd need to pupate them all, but I guess if I start to see die off I will begin mass pupation. I'll see how long they can hold out. Do superworms have a set number of molts like mantids, or will they just continually molt until being provided the "proper" conditions to pupate? How long can they live as worms?


----------



## Bug Trader (Jan 3, 2013)

The last order of 1500 superworms I received were already 1.5-2'' and Ive had them thriving for 6 weeks.


----------



## Malakyoma (Jan 3, 2013)

When I get mine they're already adult, ready to pupate after a couple days of feeding and drinking. Some of them have started dying off that I got a month and a half ago.


----------



## patrickfraser (Mar 14, 2013)

I now have beetles of both superworm and mealworm...AND tiny superworms and mealworms. It looks like a success. :detective:


----------



## Malakyoma (Mar 14, 2013)

Same here. The second generation of meelworms are turning into beetles, and the second gen of supers are about the size of mealworms.


----------



## Reptiliatus (Mar 14, 2013)

garin33 said:


> Patrick have you tried waxworms? I have read that they are pretty easy to culture and they do turn into moths so you can also feed the moths. I have not tried them yet but plan to soon. I like the idea of culturing moths or butterflies.
> 
> I think Mime454 is breeding them? How's that going Mime?
> 
> I have grain moths that have been breeding in my Lateralis roach colony and I have been feeding them to my creos and ghosts and they seem to really like them. However, I'm not sure how long that is going to last.


I breed and culture wax worms with great success. I think I am going to have to make a thread about it. It's quite easy and pays off incredibly.


----------



## Malakyoma (Mar 14, 2013)

Reptiliatus said:


> I breed and culture wax worms with great success. I think I am going to have to make a thread about it. It's quite easy and pays off incredibly.


None of mine pupated and hatched for me. The reptile place I got them from they had never been able to do it either. They thought the guy they got them from did something so they couldnt.


----------



## ScienceGirl (Mar 14, 2013)

patrickfraser said:


> I bought some pill sorters yesterday and have separated about 40 superworms. How long does it take for them to pupate? If these do pupate, it indicates that the rest of the colony will do so, as well. I have a lot of superworms and was wondering how long they will live before just dying off. Since they will not pupate in a colony, I am assuming they'd just die off if unable to pupate.


Great idea!



patrickfraser said:


> I now have beetles of both superworm and mealworm...AND tiny superworms and mealworms. It looks like a success. :detective:


Very cool! I'd like to see a zoomed out picture of your setup. I'm really interested in breeding mealworms, since they seem like a very easy feeder to maintain populations from.



Reptiliatus said:


> I breed and culture wax worms with great success. I think I am going to have to make a thread about it. It's quite easy and pays off incredibly.


Oh, please do make a thread! I'd love to read about it. Are they like mealworms?


----------



## patrickfraser (Mar 15, 2013)

Check out youtube. Lots of instructionals and set ups to see. They are super easy. For both superworms and mealworms it is just oats and carrots (some people use potato) for moisture. The only odd step for superworms is separating them to pupate, but basically the same once they turn into beetles. Just let them do their thing.


----------

