# Beware of "caresheets"



## Precarious (Jul 22, 2013)

Just a heads up.

I'm not about to read all of them, or even one in its entirety. I just don't have the time. But what I read in the Orchid caresheet was completely WRONG.

I'm not pointing this out to complain. I'm not doing it to single anyone out.

I'm pointing this out to let everyone know that section is going to lead to more bad info so long as people who don't know what they're talking about are allowed to write them. Follow those instructions and get back to me on how many viable ooths you get. If you see one written by someone you have never seen selling nymphs of that species that they bred themselves then read on at your own risk.

That is my message to you.

Don't shoot the messenger.


----------



## azn567 (Jul 22, 2013)

Is it the part about not feeding the males for several weeks if kept cool, and that puking is okay?

(I barely skimmed over the orchid caresheet)


----------



## happy1892 (Jul 22, 2013)

Parts of the caresheet that do not seem good

"males don't mind being handled, and like to sit flat on a finger

a good method is to, in the late afternoon idealy, put the male on your finger then gently nudge him onto the tip of the females wings"

Mantises do seem to get stressed by handling. If the male is scared by being handled (moved around) and then put on a female like that he might not know that he is on the female.

"the ooths of this species should not be kept higher than 80 degrees"

Is this true? Why?


----------



## Precarious (Jul 22, 2013)

Trans-Am said:


> Is it the part about not feeding the males for several weeks if kept cool, and that puking is okay?
> 
> (I barely skimmed over the orchid caresheet)





happy1892 said:


> Parts of the caresheet that do not seem good


Take your pick. I was more concerned about keeping the males "60-65 degrees". That will kill them. Or saying females only need 5 flies a day, and can't eat meal worms or roaches. Complete BUNK! Avoid crickets. That's it. And good luck keeping a female fed well enough to produce fertile ooths. That's the real challenge. You certainly can't do it on the diet suggested. Yet the caresheet says not to overfeed the females. What a joke.

I'm not going to dissect all the misinformation. Anyone that knows anything about Orchids will know it was written by someone who doesn't, but enjoys pretending they do.

That's enough out of me.


----------



## scytheclaw (Jul 22, 2013)

i think instead of one set care sheet why not dedicate a thread in the care section to certain desirable spieces where different keepers opinions and keeping experiences can form the thread so the viewer can dictate the information they want to take from it to keep their own animals instead of just one standard approach(i remember the idolomantis consolidation thread that a number of keepers took part in and i thought that was really helpful and informative as it was not one opinion regurgitated all over again)

ive seen large numbers of species going out of culture,i can't help thinking to myself if certain information was shared in such settings it would beneficial to everyone in the long run instead of relying on certain breeders keeping the cultures alive solely


----------



## Precarious (Jul 22, 2013)

scytheclaw said:


> i think instead of one set care sheet why not dedicate a thread in the care section to certain desirable spieces where different keepers opinions and keeping experiences can form the thread so the viewer can dictate the information they want to take from it to keep their own animals instead of just one standard approach(i remember the idolomantis consolidation thread that a number of keepers took part in and i thought that was really helpful and informative as it was not one opinion regurgitated all over again)
> 
> 
> ive seen large numbers of species going out of culture,i can't help thinking to myself if certain information was shared in such settings it would beneficial to everyone in the long run instead of relying on certain breeders keeping the cultures alive solely


From what I gather, the caresheet section should be people that really know their stuff sharing information that is accepted fact. That's how Idolo Consolidated started. Then you could add your specific info in the comments. That seems reasonable. But members then used it as a platform to say "hey, look at these 10 pictures of mine", etc.

I too am concerned about species falling out of culture. I'm keeping several species going just because no one else seems capable. I think the biggest issue is bad advice given by people pretending to be an authority. Drives me nuts.

You people know who you are! You are ruining the hobby!


----------



## jamurfjr (Jul 22, 2013)

I do appreciate the concern. The care sheets are and will always be a work in progress. Albeit, the purpose is not to misinform. Feel free to private message agent A or myself with your constructive criticisms and/or contributions, and we'll do our best to remedy the wrongs.


----------



## jamurfjr (Jul 22, 2013)

All forum members are welcome—encouraged, actually—to contribute to the CS forum. Mods are only a PM away and will incorporate your thoughts.

Forum description and rules: http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=30114 .


----------



## Precarious (Jul 22, 2013)

jamurfjr said:


> I do appreciate the concern. The care sheets are and will always be a work in progress. Albeit, the purpose is not to misinform. Feel free to private message agent A or myself with your constructive criticisms and/or contributions, and we'll do our best to remedy the wrongs.


The best way to remedy the wrongs is to only allow someone with experience to write them. No caresheet at all is better than that mess of bad advice.

I already contribute with my photos and videos, and by breeding and selling to the community. I don't have the time to clean up that mess. Just delete it and start over.


----------



## hibiscusmile (Jul 22, 2013)

I cant take the time to read them either, I do agree someone should write them with the knowledge of keeping them for awhile. But I thought that the instructions stated that?


----------



## jamurfjr (Jul 22, 2013)

hibiscusmile said:


> I cant take the time to read them either, I do agree someone should write them with the knowledge of keeping them for awhile. But I thought that the instructions stated that?


They do. The instructions also state to air grievances via pm. Oh well...


----------



## patrickfraser (Jul 22, 2013)

I won't read them, either. I can't believe people took the time to write them, seeing as there are so many online. Go to Yen's website for good information or I like http://www.mantisonline.eu/index.php?lan=en&amp;show=species&amp;anchor=&amp;time=1374546174&amp;content=a:2:{s:7:%22subshow%22;s:15:%22species_mantids%22;s:10:%22level_left%22;s:3:%22all%22;}


----------



## ScienceGirl (Jul 22, 2013)

:hammer: 

Well... I can at least say that more info has been added than was listed before... The care sheets that _really _irritate me are the ones where the poster inserts what should be included, and then only takes the time to cover a handful of them. :blink: 

Precarious, perhaps you could contact the admins about posting another orchid care sheet, written by you.

I agree. How are we supposed to learn how to care for a specific species of mantis if the care sheet was written by someone who doesn't even _know _what they're talking about? Please everyone, leave it to the pro's. &lt;_&lt;


----------



## ScienceGirl (Jul 22, 2013)

I also appreciate it when people use capitals, punctuation, proper spelling, and correct grammar. If you're going to take the time to post a "scientific" document, please make it professional.  (Spellcheck wants to be your bff! :batman: ) *

** This isn't an attempt to target anyone - I appreciate and love you all!  Let's hear it for the mantid keepers! :clap: *


----------



## Precarious (Jul 22, 2013)

ScienceGirl said:


> Precarious, perhaps you could contact the admins about posting another orchid care sheet, written by you.


I appreciate the request but as I stated I have limited time. As it is I barely have time to care for my pets. I put my free time into what I see as a potential career in photography. I had intended to do a few tutorials on macro photography and haven't even gotten around to that yet.

Besides, it sounds like I broke the rules by warning people not to kill their Orchids. Didn't know I had to read the rules on creating a care sheet just to skim over one.

:ban:


----------



## jamurfjr (Jul 22, 2013)

Okay, pending review by experienced keepers, the orchid care sheet has been taken down. Can we now all return to standard operating procedure as described in the rules post(linked above for your convenience)? Thanks.


----------



## ScienceGirl (Jul 22, 2013)

Look what I found! That takes care of two of the major issues I've seen, maybe three...


Only those who have kept a species through *one generation may post a care sheet*.

Only those able to provide the *majority of information listed in the template *may post a care sheet.

Care sheets containing major grammatical, spelling, *punctuation, and capitalization *errors will be edited.


----------



## Precarious (Jul 22, 2013)

ScienceGirl said:


> Look what I found! That takes care of two of the major issues I've seen, maybe three...
> 
> 
> Only those who have kept a species through *one generation may post a care sheet*.
> ...


And I'm not qualified to write one because I don't know all the other details about regional origins, etc. I guess I could just make that part up and hope some jerk doesn't point out I'm talking out my butt.


----------



## ScienceGirl (Jul 22, 2013)

Precarious said:


> And I'm not qualified to write one because I don't know all the other details about regional origins, etc. I guess I could just make that part up and hope some jerk doesn't point out I'm talking out my butt.


XD


----------



## angelofdeathzz (Jul 23, 2013)

Care sheets are all fine and nice, but as Precarious pointed out people shouldn't even attempt to write one until they've raised said species for 2 or more generations, from self bred ooths to adult and then do it all at least once again.

Mis-information and just plain bad advice is what I had to weed through years ago when I started with the Idolo, alot of research and on the fly learning got me to completely understand what I was dealing with and how best to raise/breed them, and have had 100's of Pm's from all across the globe with people wanting info on them which made me quite proud and I always did my best to humbly answer all the many questions.

What I'm getting at is maybe it's best to just ask someone how knows what the heck they're talking about, as a care sheet(for now) won't answer you if you have a question that wasn't covered,{hint} flatter them a little first then ask away! Ha-ha...


----------



## glock34girl (Jul 23, 2013)

.


----------



## hibiscusmile (Jul 23, 2013)

Well I agree, lets get back down to foreming haha, new word! Those who took the time to write did their best and surely ment no hard, kudos to them as the rest of us are to busy to do so, now that we have been warned, lets all MOVE ON! see u around another post guys!!!! :scooter:


----------

