# Assistance in sexing two Giant Rainforest Mantids



## CollinR (Sep 12, 2017)

Hey everybody! Back again with another sexing question. I've had two Giant Rainforest Mantids since midway in the Summer. They're from the same ooth so they've been aging at pretty much the same rate. The eldest is L6 and the sibling is L5 going on L6 any day now. I noticed recently that their segments are a tad different but they have virtually the same shape and size. Here are some pictures attached. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The First set of four photos is the L6 Giant Rainforest. I suspect this one to likely be a female. Both of them almost always keep their abdomens bent far upward no matter what position they're in.

The next set of four photos is of the slightly younger Rainforest Mantis who I noticed had what appeared to be a smaller extra segment but still a very round abdomen shape. See below:


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## Connor (Sep 12, 2017)

It's a little hard to tell from the photos, you can't see the very bottom segment. But to me it looks like you were right. Top is a female and bottom is a male. Though I'm not sure. In my pairs the male is always ahead in maturity than the females. Though this is doesn't work as a sexing factor.


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## Pseudoharpax (Sep 12, 2017)

Top Female, bottom Male


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## hierodula (Sep 12, 2017)

top presub female, bottom sub adult male


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## CollinR (Sep 12, 2017)

Connor said:


> It's a little hard to tell from the photos, you can't see the very bottom segment. But to me it looks like you were right. Top is a female and bottom is a male. Though I'm not sure. In my pairs the male is always ahead in maturity than the females. Though this is doesn't work as a sexing factor.


You say that you're new to the sexing thing but I'd say you're close to an expert! Thank you for all the comments on my Mantids! I really appreciate it.


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## CollinR (Sep 12, 2017)

hierodula said:


> top presub female, bottom sub adult male


Got it I really appreciate it. I'll have to research on how to mate them when they reach their last Instars at some point


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## hierodula (Sep 12, 2017)

Best way to mate mantids is have the male on a surface, put then put the female in front of him. You'll want to do this 2-3 weeks after they are adult, so that they both are ready to mate.


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## Connor (Sep 12, 2017)

CollinR said:


> You say that you're new to the sexing thing but I'd say you're close to an expert! Thank you for all the comments on my Mantids! I really appreciate it.


Haha thanks. Looks like I got the hang of it. Looks like I have a couple pairs then if I have been right about these. I can wait till I can breed for the first time! And good luck with your breeding!


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## CollinR (Sep 12, 2017)

hierodula said:


> Best way to mate mantids is have the male on a surface, put then put the female in front of him. You'll want to do this 2-3 weeks after they are adult, so that they both are ready to mate.


Thank you for the tip. I'll make sure to do that. I successfully mated two different Carolinas by putting the male behind the female so he could watch her walk around. Both times worked thankfully.


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## mantisfan101 (Sep 12, 2017)

Presub female- you can tell because of the shrinking segment.


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## CollinR (Oct 22, 2017)

Update! My Male (Cleff) has reached his last molt and now has beautiful long wings! The Female (Piper) is now Sub Adult and has one molt left! They both had healthy molts.

1st: Piper
2nd: Cleff
3rd &amp; 4th: Piper

5th: Cleff getting ready for Halloween.


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## Connor (Oct 22, 2017)

Wow they are both so pretty! Love the wings on this species. For some reason I'm fascinated by the way the subadult wingbuds look... they are like the exact wing but in a miniature form. Good luck with them! You plan on breeding?


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## CollinR (Oct 22, 2017)

Connor said:


> Wow they are both so pretty! Love the wings on this species. For some reason I'm fascinated by the way the subadult wingbuds look... they are like the exact wing but in a miniature form. Good luck with them! You plan on breeding?


Thanks! Me too. I have to say though the wings on Vance, my Adult Rhombodera may be my favorite for now. But yeah I'd love to breed them. She's about a month behind him though molt wise so He'll be a little older by the time she's ready. They're both healthy and active though! Aggressively catch roaches and moths when they're offered and don't pass up a drink from the mister. I'll get some pictures of Piper's wing buds. I noticed that right before Cleff's final molt, his wing buds enlarged more and were raised while he was hanging upside down. Before he slid out of his old skin. These two have lived most of their lives on fake tomato plants sitting in different rooms. I only had them in a terrarium when they were L1-L3. They've never left the plants so I think it means I've been doing okay raising them! Most of my L4+ Mantids live outside of a terrarium and this has gone very successfully now and in the past with other generations I've had. The only ones I keep in a tweaked environment are the Idolos in a big heated Exo Terra.


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## Connor (Oct 22, 2017)

Yeah Rhombodera have nice wings as well. I'm sure he will still be around by the time she's ready. 

Wow you've kept them out of enclosures for that long! That's amazing. Surprised the males havent run away. Wanting to try some free roamers so I have some more confidence after hearing about that. Though now that your male is an adult I would recommend putting him away. He will start to move around looking for a mate as soon as he reaches sexual maturity so you don't want to lose him!

You've got some idolos too! How old are they? Had any major trouble with them? I've been keeping them now too and the only problem I've had is getting is getting my female to eat in a big aquarium. Other than that I just hot glued a bunch of birch sticks to the top for them to molt on.


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## CollinR (Oct 22, 2017)

Connor said:


> Yeah Rhombodera have nice wings as well. I'm sure he will still be around by the time she's ready.
> 
> Wow you've kept them out of enclosures for that long! That's amazing. Surprised the males havent run away. Wanting to try some free roamers so I have some more confidence after hearing about that. Though now that your male is an adult I would recommend putting him away. He will start to move around looking for a mate as soon as he reaches sexual maturity so you don't want to lose him!
> 
> You've got some idolos too! How old are they? Had any major trouble with them? I've been keeping them now too and the only problem I've had is getting is getting my female to eat in a big aquarium. Other than that I just hot glued a bunch of birch sticks to the top for them to molt on.


Yeah that's something I tried a while back with my young Giant Asian Females when they were little. They never left their plants as long as I fed them and misted them on those plants. It has worked mostly the same for all of my other older Mantids. Vance has been kept on a couple different house plants since he was L5 but never left any of them. I transferred him to a large one after he got his wings. He will spread them and flap them when I walk by him occasionally but I've never seen him leave the plant. For safety reasons though I keep them all in different rooms on plants. None of them are close to each other.

Currently I have the Two Rainforests, Two Adult Giant Asians, one L8 Ghost, one L8 Brunner, 3 L3 Venosas, 1 L3 Giant Asian and one L3 Megaera living on individual house plants. None of them have left thankfully! I noticed the younger I place them on plants, the better chance they stay on them and recognize them as their homes when they get older. I did have one issue with Noelle where if the plant was too close to a curtain she would wander up to the very top but ever since I got her a tall grass plant she hasn't done that. (I think because she feels like she's much more at home on a tall grass plant)

The L2 and L3 Nymphs I mostly like to keep in mid size terrariums until they're old enough for the outside test. Sometimes the Nymphs will roam off of the plant and I have to put them back on them and sometimes they just never leave them. One of the reasons I want to keep most of them out is because the Nymphs will rub their faces against their terrariums and I really want to avoid them damaging their eyes so this is one of my solutions that seems to be working with most of my Mantids! All Mantids are different though so one thing I need to stress is supervising them like crazy if you're going to put them on a plant alone for the first time.
 

But yes! I have two L1/L2 Idolos with another couple on the way! We need to trade notes on them  because I still need to tweak their Terra for them. It has screen for them to hang onto and sticks and long straw to climb. I should add more though. I keep it at about 79-84 F with Humidity between 60 and 70% depending on where they are in the cage. The two I have right now tend to spend most of their time in the vicinity of the Ceramic Heater and eat exclusively Fruit Flies. I'll give them BBs after they reach L3 most likely.. if they make it to L3 god willing.


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## Connor (Oct 22, 2017)

Sounds like you got a lot of free roamers! Didn't know a ghost could go to L8 without being an adult? I will have to try at least one free roamer as my family has cats so I will most likely only keep one out in my bedroom. Hopefully your adult male doesn't leave!

Last time I checked(I'm away from home atm) I had 3 L3 males and 1 L4 male and then 2 L3 females. Though I expect for most of them to have molted to L4(really hoping they molted all right!). As far as their conditions I would recommend higher temps and for you to hot glue grippy sticks(birch or lilac) to the screen for molting. I keep half of my aquarium at around 90 degrees and the other half just above room temp. Your humidity is perfect though(although I've heard 40% from the breeder I got them from). Feeding them bb flies now.


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## CollinR (Oct 22, 2017)

Connor said:


> Sounds like you got a lot of free roamers! Didn't know a ghost could go to L8 without being an adult? I will have to try at least one free roamer as my family has cats so I will most likely only keep one out in my bedroom. Hopefully your adult male doesn't leave!
> 
> Last time I checked(I'm away from home atm) I had 3 L3 males and 1 L4 male and then 2 L3 females. Though I expect for most of them to have molted to L4(really hoping they molted all right!). As far as their conditions I would recommend higher temps and for you to hot glue grippy sticks(birch or lilac) to the screen for molting. I keep half of my aquarium at around 90 degrees and the other half just above room temp. Your humidity is perfect though(although I've heard 40% from the breeder I got them from). Feeding them bb flies now.


Nice! Sounds like you could teach me much better on how to care for them. The gauge levels out at about 80/82 during the day but the gauge is placed on the far side of the Terrarium and not close to the Lamp. When I put my hand inside I notice it's much warmer in the area of the lamp where the Devils perch and a little cooler out by the Temp and humidity gauge. It's a big Terra so I think they have plenty of space for now. It also has the rocky and textured foam backdrop which might help them for later molting. Best of luck on your Devils! I really want to hear how they grow and how you care for them. It'll help me a lot. I did quite a bit of reading and research before I got my Devils but there is always room for improvement!



 was my main point of reference in preparing for and during my Devil keeping.


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## Connor (Oct 22, 2017)

Oh ok if the gauge is far from the lamp I can see how it would be cooler. Then I would say you're all good on temperature. A foam backdrop would probably not help for molting as mantis molt completely upside down.


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## CollinR (Oct 22, 2017)

Connor said:


> Oh ok if the gauge is far from the lamp I can see how it would be cooler. Then I would say you're all good on temperature. A foam backdrop would probably not help for molting as mantis molt completely upside down.


True! I was reading that having side screening one one or two sides may help them in later stages because sometimes they will molt upside down and use the side for part of their molt. I may be wrong on that. It also helps them in that they can climb up to the top easier. I would like to get some fake vines to run along one or two sides for them. I do know they have plenty of sticks and straw for now to crawl and hang along and hunt as well as molt from.


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## Connor (Oct 22, 2017)

Yeah they may use it to grip onto and pull themselves out of their skin. I will probably end up building a molting box with a ton of drawer fabric(the layer you put on the bottom of a kitchen drawer to keep things in one spot because of the grippiness)


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## CollinR (Oct 22, 2017)

Connor said:


> Yeah they may use it to grip onto and pull themselves out of their skin. I will probably end up building a molting box with a ton of drawer fabric(the layer you put on the bottom of a kitchen drawer to keep things in one spot because of the grippiness)


Thank you for the pointers. I've been trying to get everything to a tee on their care. They seem to be doing fine together because they have plenty of FFs roaming at the bottom and the sides. I also am using the Coco Fiber substrate to help up some humidity for them. I need to do the ceiling twigs for them though. It seems that the mesh top is okay for them for now because of how small their feet are, allowing them to hook around a little easier. If needed they have rigid thin sticks to climb onto in order to molt. I read from Precarious though that sometimes they just molt wherever and don't scout an appropriate spot so I've been trying to watch for that. They've been eating quite a bit though so I don't really think they'll molt in the next day or so. On the bright side they're both very plump and ignoring each other! I asked Kevin Young from MoonlightMantids how an Exo-Terra would work for them to which he said it should be suitable for them to thrive in with the right heat and humidity conditions. He's the main person I get my Nymphs from. Great service from him in the past!


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## Connor (Oct 22, 2017)

Well you sound set! Yeah I try and keep away from low branches for the simple fact that they may try and molt too low. Hopefully they will molt well! These guys don't seem too interested in eating each other because even when mine get into fights,  they just raise up their arms(the coolest coloration and stature ever) and very rarely will hit each other. Only hit though... never grab.

Oh and I read the same topic as you... the idolomantis consolidated. Very helpful


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## CollinR (Oct 22, 2017)

Connor said:


> Well you sound set! Yeah I try and keep away from low branches for the simple fact that they may try and molt too low. Hopefully they will molt well! These guys don't seem too interested in eating each other because even when mine get into fights,  they just raise up their arms(the coolest coloration and stature ever) and very rarely will hit each other. Only hit though... never grab.


Yeah. Thank you and I'll try to keep them away from those too. I'll send some photos soon! Keep me updated on your Idolos and I can always use some pointers on how to better care for my own. I'll note the suggestions that you raised!


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## CollinR (Oct 22, 2017)

Also! Here are some additional photos of Cleff and Piper. Tried to get her wing buds.


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## Connor (Oct 22, 2017)

Yeah I'll let you know how mine do molting! Some pics of your idolos would be amazing too! I have some pics on my collection page. 

Those wing buds are beautiful lol! Never thought I'd say that in my life haha. Cliff is looking amazing with those brown accents!


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## T.C. (Oct 24, 2017)

Really cool pictures. Yours are a lot brighter than mine used to be.


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## CollinR (Oct 25, 2017)

T.C. said:


> Really cool pictures. Yours are a lot brighter than mine used to be.


Thanks! Hopefully now that I have a M/F I'll continue those pretty green colors along in the next generation! I think them living on those green tomato plants most of their lives helped color them more.


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## CollinR (Oct 25, 2017)

Piper eating Dinner and eying a roach that stepped onto her foot.


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## CollinR (Oct 25, 2017)

Cleff with his Dinner.


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## CollinR (Oct 25, 2017)

Piper hanging while I work.


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## Connor (Oct 25, 2017)

Wow they really are pretty. You got lucky with such nice colors! That's sweet that they just chill with you. Only a few species of mine will do that. A lot of others though love to run up and down my arm lol.


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