# New Enclosure



## DefyTheNorms (Dec 16, 2017)

I recently purchased 7 exo terras (3 different sizes)... I moved my Malaysian Shield mantis to the small 8x8x8 since she's the largest and was outgrowing her cup. Eventually she'll move to the 12x12x18 and this will become home to my Jeweled flower mantis - but until then I was wondering if this was a good setup? It's my first actual terrarium and not sure if it's sufficient for molting, needs more branches? etc.


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## CosbyArt (Dec 16, 2017)

@DefyTheNorms It really depends. The reptile tanks look great, but are not ideal for mantids, and is the main reason few use them besides the costs.

That is the screen mesh, and ventilation at front, are problems when feeding nymphs fruit flies (and pinhead crickets or such) as they can escape through the mesh. Another factor is the large size can make feeding difficult, as mantids will be less likely to see or capture their prey. The feeding problems can be remedied by feeding the mantids in separate smaller containers.

The aluminum metal screen mesh at the top can also lead to problems. As the screen is weaved, the strands can move, and can lead to pinched/crushed/amputated antennas, tarsi, or even legs. It tends to be more of a problem for adult mantids though, likely as they weigh more which moves the strands easier, and due to age when their exoskeleton become more brittle. A easy solution is to cover the metal mesh with fiberglass mesh, or a fabric like tulle or organza.

About the sticks/twigs/branches, many keepers do not use any in their habitats. While more natural looking, and not as bland, in nature mantids are high enough up where molting close to the ground is never a concern - but is not the same of course in in a habitat.

That is nymphs will often molt from a stick and have a mismolt from the small space underneath (or strange angle). I've had it happen in the past several times from sticks when I first started in the hobby (and seen it happen on the forum much too often). I've even had one nymph that chose a spot on a stick where it could barely hang from normally as it was near the bottom, and of course mismolted.  If you use sticks any area where a mantis can hang from needs at least two times the mantis length for clearance in case the mantis molts there.

Anymore in nymph habitats I use only one stick hot glued vertically (nearly straight up and down) and do not have mismolts that way. In adult habitats they can be done without fear of molts, so I tend to give them much more sticks and decorations; however, mantids typically only sit near or on the top mesh anyway so is only eye candy.


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## Bathory (Dec 17, 2017)

Like @CosbyArt said, they generally aren't too clever about choosing spots to molt (I learned that the hard way). I'd hot glue some mesh of another material to the ceiling of the enclosure and maybe remove some of the decorations if your mantis has any molts left. Maybe loop some thinner sticks across the ceiling in an arched shape or attack them with glue   I've also noticed that it's hard to maintain humidity in the exo terras unless you cover up at least half of the screen lid.


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## DefyTheNorms (Dec 17, 2017)

@CosbyArt I bought the Exo Terras because, based on comments &amp; photos I seen here, it seemed like they were ideal. I'm new to mantids and I guess perhaps I read it all wrong     but I did have had plans to address a few of the issues...

The nymphs will stay in their 32oz cups until they are are quite big and taking larger prey. The screen on top of the exo terra is actually smaller than the screen on their cups. so something the size of hydei wouldn't be able to escape - but I had plans to put fiberglass mesh over the front vet, and to change the top screen to something more suitable since I was told the metal mesh can injure their feet. I know what you mean about size making it more difficult to find food. Even in their cups, I'm always worried they aren't eating, so I tend to make sure they eat at each feeding - even if it means handing it to them. A lot of times I take them out to feed. The little ones love hydei dipped in honey  

I'll rearrange the terrarium for molting clearance, and add a vertical stick or 2. I just got the Exo Terra's yesterday so its still a work in progress. I put my Shield mantis in this one because she's close to outgrowing her cup, but I may put her back in her cup until at least one more molt and work on bettering the terrarium.

Thanks for all your help. I'm feeling like maybe I wasted my money on all these Exo Terras    ... My question is, what is the ideal mantis enclosure?

@Bathory She's still has quite a few molts left. I wonder if something like wide weaved burlap would be good to cover the top? I had planned to hot glue a few thinner sticks across the top so may still do that, and I'll remove some of the decor. As for humidity, I made plexiglass covers with holes (similar to the cup lids) that sits over the mesh. I am waiting on my thermometer/hydrometer to arrive then I can adjust the covers as needed. The house itself is always a good humidity (around 60%) so hopefully that helps maintain it


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## Connor (Dec 17, 2017)

The perfect set ups, in my opinion, are deli cups and net cages. This is all I use except for a few terrariums. 32 oz can hold small sp their entire lives. There are 80 oz deli cups that will House the medium adult sp. Or get net cages(butterfly cages) and they work amazingly for the bigger sp.


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## CosbyArt (Dec 17, 2017)

@DefyTheNorms Your right some have bought the tanks, and is how I pointed out the problem areas and ways to get around it. Like anything if are able to address the issues the tanks work fine, are extremely durable, and look so much better than a hot glued plastic setup.  

Once the mantids get a bit bigger the only issue really is feeding, again can be done by hand/tweezers/or in another container solves that. Depending on some mantid species, that isn't a problem anyway as they are such fanatic hunters. Also feeding flying prey to larger mantids (stable/house/bottle flies/moths) may completely eliminate the issue as well as they fly to the top where the mantis is waiting.  

I didn't mean to rain on your parade, again a few keepers have the Exo-terra tanks and really like them. Just be aware of the issues with them.



DefyTheNorms said:


> My question is, what is the ideal mantis enclosure?


A ideal habitat is based on the mantid size, ability to prevent issues/or lack of them, easily cleanable, and such. For that it means for most having a collection of plastic and/or net mesh containers - see links below.

Starting off with small 8oz cups or 16oz deli cups for nymphs, followed by 32oz deli cups, then a larger plastic container or mesh net home. Overall the size depends on the species and instar. I've once had tiny Japanese boxer mantids (Acromantis japonica) that only grew to about 1" in size, so the 8oz cup habitat was huge for them even as adults. See my post here about the small 8oz cups, and basic builds.

Some of the nicest ready to nearly go habitats I've seen were a small (nano?) fish tank with a solid top lid and even came with a light. The keeper added mesh to the lid, and a ventilation opening, and it looked great.

The container needs to be a minimum of 3 times their length for tank height, and 2 times their length for tank width/length. A bit bigger is always better for substrate, to prevent mismolts due to cramped space, and plus who likes to live in a tiny home.

You can see what is usually sold for habitats visiting these direct habitat links at BugsInCyberspace, PanTerra Pets, MantidKingdom, and MantisPlace. I say sold as many reuse plastic containers (such as and food plastic tubs), or what they can buy at Walmart or a dollar store; however, this does require diy crafting.

Rebecca I know sells plastic cookie jars ready to go that have a nice clean look. Incidentally if you notice a mantis is having a molting issue, rotating the jar (without substrate) can give the mantis more room to molt properly in some cases. I've never had that myself but read of a few doing that and saved the nymph, and seems she did too and has it on the description.


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## Bathory (Dec 17, 2017)

I used jute weave/burlap for my exo terra and it worked perfectly! The fibers are very grippy but Ripley didn't seem to get her feet stuck


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## Ocelotbren (Dec 17, 2017)

I have kept Chinese nymphs in the 8"x8"x12" Exo Terra and Chinese adults in the 12"x12"x18" Exo Terra and I like them.  As mentioned, they do look really nice.  I've never had an issue with them finding their feeders even when the size of the enclosure was quite big relative to their size at the time.  It might be because Chinese mantids seem to be quite aggressive and active though and will go towards their prey if they see it out of reach.  You could remove less aggressive nymphs at feeding time or you could also raise them in deli cups until large enough to fit in the Exo Terras appropriately.

I replaced the mesh with fiberglass mesh also.  I did feed D. hydei in the smaller enclosure and did have occasional escapees but not through the mesh.  I had to block off the bottom front corners where the door meets the walls because there were holes big enough for fruit flies to get out.  There may have been a couple other spots that weren't as obvious too but it didn't cause me much grief so I left it at that.

Other than that you just have to try your best to decorate in a way that will minimize mismolt risk, as always.  And ideally still look nice!  As long as you take the limitations that CosbyArt mentioned into consideration, I think the terrariums can work just fine and of course I do like how they look.


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## DefyTheNorms (Dec 18, 2017)

Thanks all! I had thought of the mesh enclosures, but I was worried with all the animals I have. Even my 32oz cups are inside of a mini greenhouse to prevent the cats from knocking them off the shelf. I also wasn't sure how I'd adjust humidity. I probably should of had this conversation BEFORE buying the Exo Terras. I'll address the issues and make them work. I do like how they look tho. And all 7 (plus the cup greenhouse) fit on one shelf in my living room. That's a bonus since I'm short on space. Some of my species may live in cups their entire lives, but at least I have the terrariums to grow. And with 3 different sizes, I can graduate them as needed.  

 



CosbyArt said:


> I didn't mean to rain on your parade


And no worry... I didn't take it that way at all. You've been very helpful


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## CosbyArt (Dec 18, 2017)

DefyTheNorms said:


> Thanks all! I had thought of the mesh enclosures, but I was worried with all the animals I have. Even my 32oz cups are inside of a mini greenhouse to prevent the cats from knocking them off the shelf. I also wasn't sure how I'd adjust humidity. I probably should of had this conversation BEFORE buying the Exo Terras. I'll address the issues and make them work. I do like how they look tho. And all 7 (plus the cup greenhouse) fit on one shelf in my living room. That's a bonus since I'm short on space. Some of my species may live in cups their entire lives, but at least I have the terrariums to grow. And with 3 different sizes, I can graduate them as needed.
> 
> 
> 
> And no worry... I didn't take it that way at all. You've been very helpful


I know the feeling I have three cats myself and they can be troublemakers.  It sounds good and I'd like to see a photo of them when you get them setup.

That's a relief, as I was worried you thought the worse of your tanks. That is one thing of our community, with a bit of material and hot glue they can use anything. Hot glue is the duct tape of the insect world.


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## DefyTheNorms (Dec 18, 2017)

CosbyArt said:


> Hot glue is the duct tape of the insect world.


LOL I'm starting to realize that - says the girl who HATES hot glue


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## Nanodot (Dec 18, 2017)

Your tanks look lovely and practical. 

For me, terrariums are part of my mantid hobby.  I have mantids in cups and in terrariums, and the ones in terrariums are a lot more active.  I think I get to see more of the mantids natural behaviors in a terrarium, and being able to behave naturally lowers a mantids stress.  

I use cups for nymphs and extra breeding adults, but my favorite mantids live in my ten gallon vertical terrariums.  They have no trouble finding food, but I can also tweezer-feed them which is fun. 

I especially love communal mantids in my terrariums, such as Ghosts and Violins.  

Even a 16 oz cup can be greatly improved with a little substrate and a couple of climbing sticks.  A 64 oz cup can be a bioactive vivarium with substrate, a plant, and springtails.


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## DefyTheNorms (Dec 19, 2017)

Nanodot said:


> I have mantids in cups and in terrariums, and the ones in terrariums are a lot more active.  I think I get to see more of the mantids natural behaviors in a terrarium, and being able to behave naturally lowers a mantids stress.
> 
> I use cups for nymphs and extra breeding adults, but my favorite mantids live in my ten gallon vertical terrariums.  They have no trouble finding food
> 
> I especially love communal mantids in my terrariums, such as Ghosts and Violins.


So far the Shield in the 8x8x8 is working out well. She's very aggressive and will chase her prey down, so since the stable flies go to the top and it's where she hangs out she's catching her food no problem.  I have noticed that she's more active in the exo terra. In her 32 oz cup she basically stayed laying on a stick or hanging from the top of the lid. Now she runs laps around the top the terrarium and down the sides. She hasn't went to the bottom yet tho, and is kinda avoiding the stick and plants lol (I took some out).  I'd love a communal tank and plan to get ghosts one day! How many do you think could live in a 12x12x18 terrarium?



Nanodot said:


> A 64 oz cup can be a bioactive vivarium with substrate, a plant, and springtails.


I was wondering about springtails. I was thinking about adding a few, but have no idea of what's required. I just use exo earth on the bottom and no live plants. Can I still add springtails and are there any care tips I need to know?


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## rantology (Dec 19, 2017)

DefyTheNorms said:


> I was wondering about springtails. I was thinking about adding a few, but have no idea of what's required. I just use exo earth on the bottom and no live plants. Can I still add springtails and are there any care tips I need to know?


Super easy, just keep the substrate slightly damp for them and maybe add a couple of dead leaf litter for them to eat (or you can use some pieces cooked rice or dry dog/cat food). They will eat discarded mantis food and most importantly they keep mold in check. Isopods also fill the same role and are a little larger (there are some cool varieties you can find too)


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## DefyTheNorms (Dec 19, 2017)

@rantology Very cool! Thank you! Where would I purchase deal leaf litter?  And would I just put it on top of the eco earth, or mix it in?


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## rantology (Dec 19, 2017)

You can do either or both, whatever you like more aesthetically... You can buy leaf litter on most sites that sell substrate, bugincyberspace, josh's frogs, etc. you can also sterilize your own if you happen to have hardwood trees around but be careful that they wouldn't be near a place where they might have been sprayed with pesticides. If you put a layer on top it will help hold moisture in the substrate.


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## DefyTheNorms (Dec 19, 2017)

@rantology  Awesome. Thank you  

I know they can extend how often you have to change the substrate, but I was wondering how you know when it's time to change it?


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## Nanodot (Dec 19, 2017)

DefyTheNorms said:


> How many do you think could live in a 12x12x18 terrarium?


18 tall?  Probably 4-6 adults.     I had four in a ten gallon vertical aquarium which is a similar size, and they each had plenty of room to hang out in the plants.


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## DefyTheNorms (Dec 19, 2017)

Nanodot said:


> 18 tall?  Probably 4-6 adults.


Yup, 18 tall - Good to know!


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