# what is the difference limbata and carolina?



## davestreasurechest (Sep 7, 2009)

what is the difference limbata and carolina?


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## Ntsees (Sep 8, 2009)

Although I've never seen carolina's (except in pictures on the web), I'm going to take a guess that the main difference is the the limbata's have their abdomen curved upwards and the carolina's don't. Also, from the top view, the abdomen of limbatas appear wide/fat whereas the carolina's abdomen is more slimmer. Other than that, they share the banded tibia and short wings in the female.


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## d17oug18 (Sep 8, 2009)

limbatas inner wings are clear, but have yellow looking like veins. Limbatas are normally solid in color and look like leaves. Carolinas have black inner wings with white edges. They look more like bark and have a chamo look with different variations of blacks browns and greys.


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## Rick (Sep 8, 2009)

d17oug18 said:


> limbatas inner wings are clear, but have yellow looking like veins. Limbatas are normally solid in color and look like leaves. Carolinas have black inner wings with white edges. They look more like bark and have a chamo look with different variations of blacks browns and greys.


That really isn't accurate. I am sitting here looking at a green carolina so they don't all look like bark. Right now I have a light colored one, a very dark one, and a green one. I have a black male and a greenish male too. To the layperson I would say the main difference is color.


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## kamakiri (Sep 8, 2009)

Limbata females have the yellow-clear hind wings. I think the rest of the differences can be subtle, since both vary outwardly in available colors and patterns. The female hind wings are the only positive factor I know of.


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## Rick (Sep 8, 2009)

kamakiri said:


> Limbata females have the yellow-clear hind wings. I think the rest of the differences can be subtle, since both vary outwardly in available colors and patterns. The female hind wings are the only positive factor I know of.


Green s. carolinas also have yellow wings underneath.


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## davestreasurechest (Sep 9, 2009)

thanks for the replies ! looks like i asked a good question


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## kamakiri (Sep 9, 2009)

Rick said:


> Green s. carolinas also have yellow wings underneath.


Well, so much for that theory! Regardless of color, so far all my limbata have had yellow hind wings...I guess that's not a very large sample, but others reported the same. Thanks for clearing that up.


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## PhilinYuma (Sep 9, 2009)

kamakiri said:


> Well, so much for that theory! Regardless of color, so far all my limbata have had yellow hind wings...I guess that's not a very large sample, but others reported the same. Thanks for clearing that up.


I've never kept S. carolina, but all the hind wings on S. limbata that I have looked at appear to have "clear yellow" spots on them. Is that true of S. carolina? Also, S.carolina appear to have a pale spot on each forewing, not found in S. limbata. Is that a characteristic of Carolinas?


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## Rick (Sep 9, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> I've never kept S. carolina, but all the hind wings on S. limbata that I have looked at appear to have "clear yellow" spots on them. Is that true of S. carolina? Also, S.carolina appear to have a pale spot on each forewing, not found in S. limbata. Is that a characteristic of Carolinas?


If anyone wants I can post up some pics later today. I have pics of both and right now I have adult s. carolina in three different colors.


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## kamakiri (Sep 9, 2009)

Rick said:


> If anyone wants I can post up some pics later today. I have pics of both and right now I have adult s. carolina in three different colors.


Of course! Please post the pics. :lol: Did you have to ask?


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## charleyandbecky (Sep 9, 2009)

My youngest carolina went from bright leaf green to bark-like gray/brown in one molt. It looks like a completely different mantis.


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## Rick (Sep 9, 2009)

Thought I had some wing pictures of limbata but I don't see em. The eyespots on the wings are more pronounced in s. carolina. Also s. carolina has a speckled thorax that I don't see in limbata.

Limbata:

















Carolina:


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## PhilinYuma (Sep 9, 2009)

Thanks, Rick. It really does look as though the eyespot on the forewings in S. carolina is the most obvious distinction between the two species for those of us who can't tell much from the male genitalia! I had though that the forewings of S. limbata females extend further down the abdomen than do those of S. carolina, but I now think that this is probably just a peculiarity of my local species (wow, say I don't have S. limbata at all, but something New To Science!  ).


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## kamakiri (Sep 9, 2009)

Yeah the forewing eye-spot is perhaps most definitive. It's tough to describe or quantify the differences in proportion... Top of the thorax does seem to be a different shape with the limbata being wider/rounder. Even without the labels, I *think* I could pick out the shapes. The first pics are definitely limbata.


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## PhilinYuma (Sep 9, 2009)

Rick, Kamakiri,

With so many "maybe," "IMHO" answers to questions on the forum (can't be avoided), it is great that between you, you have come up with a definitive

method to distinguish between these two Stagmomantis species. Even I could see the eyespots, but I went back and checked out the anterior border of the pronotum (prothorax) both on the pix and on my tiny female, and there is no mistaking the difference. Personally, although I'll use a distinctive marking like the black and with spot on Iris oratorio, to confirm a species, I can't really say that if the mark is absent it is not that species.


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## Rick (Sep 9, 2009)

I have nymphs of both species that are about the same size. I may compare those as well.


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## ismart (Sep 10, 2009)

I have noticed when side by side the female carolina's pronotum is longer in proportion from the head to the abdomin than the female limbata's.


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## Ntsees (Sep 15, 2009)

(...in continuation from the topic: All of a sudden...) Rick, unless you were talking about another picture, I think that is supposed to be the spot on the wing (if my eyes don't fail me)? It's color is quite concealing but the capture was alright. Unfortunately, the 2 following pictures had the spot covered by the other wing.

(err...gotta click to enlarge)


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## Rick (Sep 15, 2009)

Yeah I went back and looked and it is very faint. A member here is looking at doing a taxonomy of stagmomantis. Maybe once he is done it will help clear up some confusion.


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## kamakiri (Sep 15, 2009)

...There are lots of sublte differences to add too. The limbata wins seem more 'boxy' with a sharper trundown on the sides. The tips of the limbata wings seem rounder/broader.

EDIT:

I also think limbata has a sharper corner where the wing covers the lower 'eye spot':


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## Ntsees (Sep 15, 2009)

kamakiri said:


> ...There are lots of sublte differences to add too. The limbata wins seem more 'boxy' with a sharper trundown on the sides. The tips of the limbata wings seem rounder/broader.


+1

Yes, I remember seeing those too on the limbatas. Thanks for reminding me.


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## kamakiri (Sep 17, 2009)

Finally got the gray _limbata _ (Gwyn) irritated enough to take some wing pics last night:

Click for Large Pic






Click for Large Pic






Click for Large Pic






EDIT:

fixed the large photo links


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## Rick (Sep 17, 2009)

kamakiri said:


> Finally got the gray _limbata _ (Gwyn) irritated enough to take some wing pics last night:


The wings look just like carolina and this one has the dark spot on the wings. Are you sure that one is limbata?


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## kamakiri (Sep 17, 2009)

Rick said:


> The wings look just like carolina and this one has the dark spot on the wings. Are you sure that one is limbata?


I'm pretty sure. Take a look at the first large pic. The spot, while not yellow, doesn't have a blackish dark spot but is in fact lighter in the center. She was also wild caught here, and the rest of the identifying features we've all discussed in this thread and others are all pointing towards limbata.


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## Rick (Sep 17, 2009)

The spot looks darker in the first pic in the last post you made with pics. Need to get them side by side.


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