# abdomen collapse



## Alimama (Aug 2, 2020)

Hi fellow mantid lovers! I need some advice.

Not sure if this is abdomen collapse, but  i am raising 8 preying mantises this year , and have seen a number of them get this problem. Despite this, they  remain active and eating. The abdomen seems loosely attached and is sometimes raised at an extreme angle  and other times lowered at a weird angle in the same animal. Sometimes the angle is severe (like the tail is bent backwards toward the head creating a 40 degrees angle)One animal is pictured below.

I am not sure I am feeding them correctly. I have been giving them 1 "medium" size cricket every third day. Do you think its because of what I feed them? Is it too much? [ raised them similarly last year but did not have this problem.]

Could it be something genetic, as they all hatched from the same egg case? Or how they are fed?

Any other advice?


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## MrGhostMantis (Aug 2, 2020)

Thats called floppy abdomen syndrome and it usually caused by being overfed.


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## MantisGirl13 (Aug 2, 2020)

Yep, definitely floppy abdomen syndrome. I haven't seen this in any species other than Tenodera, and I'm not sure what causes it since I've had skinny and fat mantids get it. There's not much you can do for it, the mantis probably won't live long with its abdomen like that. Sorry.

- MantisGirl13


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## MantisMart (Aug 2, 2020)

Maybe the cricket is too big for the mantis. I can't tell the mantids size compared to the cricket, but I only like to use feeders no more than 1/3 the mantids size. This way I feel more in control of the food intake. Also, make sure to spot check and stop feeding if the membrane in between the bottom and top part of the abdomen becomes too apparent. Also, I personally wouldn't feed crickets, but it shouldn't be much of a problem.


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## MrGhostMantis (Aug 3, 2020)

They can get better sometimes, it's just these mantids aren't meant to always hang, they need to be upright too.


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## Alimama (Aug 3, 2020)

Good for you, MantisGirl, that you are still active and giving great advice. Thank you, too Mr. GhostMantis and MantisMart for your helpful replies!


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## FabioFabiatic (Aug 3, 2020)

MantisGirl13 said:


> I haven't seen this in any species other than Tenodera


I believe I have also seen it with Cat Eye mantises. 

Also @Alimama how often were they upside down? I imagine a possible cause for this condition is a combination of overfeeding and lack of are to stand upright.

You are more experienced than me, what do you think @MantisGirl13 ?


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## MantisGirl13 (Aug 4, 2020)

As I stated earlier, I'm not positive what causes it, but I'm fairly sure that it can be prevented by having the hanging area at the top of the cage on a bit of an angle, and by providing plenty of other sticks at different angles, not necessarily level. 

There's not much of a way to save a mantis with this syndrome (although as MrGhostMantis pointed out it can resolve its self, but this is rarely the case) but there are possible ways to prevent it.

- MantisGirl13


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## Alimama (Aug 4, 2020)

Good for you, MantisGirl, that you are still active and giving great advice. Thank you, too Mr. GhostMantis and MantisMart for your helpful replies! Thanks


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## Alimama (Aug 4, 2020)

Thanks for the advice about the sticks. I will try that. I was also thinking of putting the cage at an angle. That might help. It is still very active and eating, etc. Actually I believe it was this way before its last molt.


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## hysteresis (Aug 4, 2020)

I still recommend free-ranging until next molt, @Alimama.

They still have a hard time staying off the top, steepled or not!  

-c


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## Alimama (Aug 16, 2020)

Just FYI, the 2 with the floppy abdomens molted into their adult instar and seem to be doing fine. One of them, the abdomen is seen swinging slightly t to the left or right, depending on position, but not flopping anymore. Also seems a little small. They are spending more time lower in their cage. We'll see...


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## kynsylph (Aug 18, 2020)

I had this issue with one of my tenoderas, very severe like in your photos where his abdomen sagged in both directions. I was able to fix it by moving him to a fishbowl where he couldn't really hang upside down. I would adjust the bowl's position now and then to make sure he was always at an angle where his abdomen remained in its "normal" position. I then fed him every day with both BB's and mealworms, and a little bit of banana on the first day too.

After three days, his abdomen was no longer floppy although there was still a clear crease/distortion where it used to fold over. I returned him to his usual enclosure/feeding schedule and he moulted last night just fine! So if you (or anyone else with a mantis with this syndrome) want to be on the safe side, it seems like this method works well. Of course, maybe he would have been fine either way and this rigmarole was just a way to make myself feel better


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## Krissim Klaw (Aug 31, 2020)

It isn't so much hanging upside down but hanging from a flat horizontal service directly after a shedding that tends to cause this problem. _Tenderas _are an extremely active species and a lot of times they move pretty quickly after shedding. I usually keep these guys in net cubes and I found simply putting the cage at an angle so it has around a 45 degree angles at the tops tends to completely eliminate this issue.


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