# question about strange lifecycle of a Meditarranean Mantis



## [email protected] (Feb 27, 2014)

I'm finally a mom!

The 7th egg sac of my late beloved Mandy finally hatched!- kinda. . . .

Yes, the key is sun!

Every morning before I leave I take the aquarium out in the sun for a couple hours. It gets about 100 degrees in there and is nice and sunny. They do not like it over 20% humidity.

Two days ago, I got 2 new nymphs, yesterday I got 3, and this morning I got 4. I only see 6 now. But I never heard of the same egg sac hatching daily at the same time like clock work. Is that normal?

Other questions:

1. Are ants OK? They sting real bad when they bite.

I am trying to feed them aphids, fruit flies, and they can't seem to catch anything and a couple are not even trying.

2. How long can they go without food?

3. Should I take them out one by one and feed them? Or Do they need to learn on their own?

4. I'm assuming they won't molt unless they eat. I have moss for them to molt. Is that ok? When should I put in in the tank?

5. My Mandy only mated once, I think that the nymphs are all clones because they are all the same yellow color and not too smart like the mom. Very lovable though!

Thanks! I could write about these beautiful creatures all day. Sorry so long. But I appreciate any advice!


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## happy1892 (Feb 27, 2014)

Many mantises hatch a few each day for a period of several days, but I do not know about the Iris oratoria. Wait one day after they hatch before trying to feed them. It might be good to wait two days before putting some fruit flies or aphids in their containers. Separate the nymphs, like put two or three nymphs of similar age in a 32oz container (a small container is good, a tank is a little hard to feed them when the mantises are so young). Put some sticks in their containers and if they are moving around the container too much you might need to put a substrate or some bark for them to grip on to. I would not use ants. Do not handle them much. Be very careful around them when you are feeding them because they probably get scared easily and so they will not eat (it might be good to leave them alone for a little time, but I would not want to miss watching them catch and eat. lol).


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## [email protected] (Feb 27, 2014)

Thank you! That helps a lot.


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## PlayingMantis (Feb 28, 2014)

Please avoid feeding them ants, especially the ones that sting badly. The ants can seriously damage or kill your baby mantids. I even wouldn't feed ants to adults...ants are hard to grasp and are all skin and legs.

If you don't have aphids, you can start off with fruit flies. D. melanogaster for the smallest nymphs and D. hydei for the larger ones. You can order your cultures online, but if you're in a pinch, you can check your local petstore.


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## [email protected] (Feb 28, 2014)

Thank you. I do have aphids, but they are not catching them. I guess they are just too clumsy now. A couple actually run from the aphids. I'm worried that they will starve.

How long can they go without eating?


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## Shadow (Feb 28, 2014)

I don't know for sure but my GHOST mantis nymphs survived 2 weeks when I suddenly ran out of food


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## happy1892 (Feb 28, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Thank you. I do have aphids, but they are not catching them. I guess they are just too clumsy now. A couple actually run from the aphids. I'm worried that they will starve.
> 
> How long can they go without eating?


That is the thing. If you put food in too early then they just get stressed out.



Shadow said:


> I don't know for sure but my GHOST mantis nymphs survived 2 weeks when I suddenly ran out of food


Are you talking about L1nymphs? I had Stagmomantis carolina L1 nymphs that did not last very long without food at 68F.


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## Shadow (Feb 28, 2014)

L3


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## Shadow (Feb 28, 2014)

75f


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2014)

Uggh! I tried separating a couple in a smaller container for a day and they did worse. They either freak out and try to get out, or they just sit there and don't move. I put them back and they seem happier in the big aquarium.

I did see one eat and one drink water. That's it. Every time they try to catch food, they just knock it down. I got 7 new babies this morning, and now I can't tell them apart.

I'm worried about the 4 day old babies!

I guess I'll try to put them in the small containers again. If they won't eat, I might just let them go. I don't want them to die. They are so adorable!

They do like crawling on my hands. Why is it bad to handle them too much?


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## Extrememantid (Mar 1, 2014)

It's not a bad thing of they sit there and don't move, that's what mantids do! Lol. Put a few in a smaller enclosure. They might be having a hard time finding food. And they freak out because they are scared they are getting attacked or eaten, they don't realize what your doing.


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## happy1892 (Mar 1, 2014)

Can you show pictures of all your containers? If they are moving around then that probably means they are not alright and the container is not good. They can die if they are kept stressed out without good places to stay still on. As Extrememantid said if the mantises are sitting still in one spot then they probably alright. That is great that one is eating. Are you able to tell which nymph has eaten and which nymph has not? The nymphs that ate are fat and the ones that did not are skinny. When they are crawling on your hand they are probably running away because they are scared lol. Handling them carefully might not be too bad, but leave them alone or be so that they do not see you when you feed them or they might not eat. You need a lot of sticks in their containers. If you have nothing in their containers to hold onto they might die. I do not know about Iris oratoria, they might be alright living on the ground, but probably they would be better off hanging on sticks.


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## Ntsees (Mar 1, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> I'm finally a mom!
> 
> The 7th egg sac of my late beloved Mandy finally hatched!- kinda. . . .


Congrats!



[email protected] said:


> Yes, the key is sun!


I guess it could apply for ooths as warmth is needed. When I say the sun is the key, I mean that with the aid of sunlight, after each successive molt, they will try to match the color of the vegetation they are on.

1) I don't know of any ant small enough for newly hatched nymphs. I used to feed my mantids the California grey field ant (_Formica aerata_) when they are abundant around my house. I don't anymore because they've been push out by the invasive Argentine ants.

2) It depends. I wouldn't wait over a week. I usually give mines wingless friut flies (the small kinds).

3) Whatever you prefer.

4) Moss might be ok. If it's too compact, it's not too good.

5) They all hatch out the same color. One mating is good for many ooths (the species can go parthenogenic, but more hatch from fertilization).


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2014)

7 more babies today! The second I put them in the sun, they hatch. We only had sun here for about half hour today, and they hatched then!

Thank you! Lots of good information! Yes, they are all yellow, like the color of the stick they were hatched out of. They are the same color as their mom, and since she only mated once, and the 7th egg case was laid a long time after she mated, so I thought they might be clones. . . She also called for a male (2 actually came through my open window!), and I could not bear to see them get eaten; I saved them. I guess I thought since she called, she needed more fertilization?

Anyway, if they were clones, how could she have males?

But more importantly, I am having problems feeding them still!

Maybe the fruit flies are too big? The babies HATE being in a small container! It is glass, with a wet paper towel on the bottom, and lots of sticks and fruit flies. The aphids don't last too long, but that is all I've seen them eat (twice now). -and only the small ones.

Their tummy turns darker after they eat.

So, they need to be on a stick, or they won't survive?

If they are trying to get out of the container, it means it is not good for them?

How much do they have to eat before they molt? Should I put the moss in yet?

This is real tough! Thanks everyone!


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## Extrememantid (Mar 1, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> 7 more babies today! The second I put them in the sun, they hatch. We only had sun here for about half hour today, and they hatched then!
> 
> Thank you! Lots of good information! Yes, they are all yellow, like the color of the stick they were hatched out of. They are the same color as their mom, and since she only mated once, and the 7th egg case was laid a long time after she mated, so I thought they might be clones. . . She also called for a male (2 actually came through my open window!), and I could not bear to see them get eaten; I saved them. I guess I thought since she called, she needed more fertilization?
> 
> ...


I think your over thinking all this, no they won't die if they aren't on a stick.. There isn't as certain amount of food they need to eat before they molt, just enough to grow. They are bugs.. So obviously they will try to get out, you. Just need to let them settle down.. And you don't need wet paper towel, or moss. Just mist every day or every second day they will be fine. I think their gender developes after they start growing.. but if she was mated they most likely aren't a result of parthenogenesis. And calling doesn't mean she needs to be fertilized.


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2014)

Ha Ha! Yeah, I over- analyze everything.

Yeah, I need to chill.

Thank you!


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## Ntsees (Mar 2, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> 7 more babies today! The second I put them in the sun, they hatch. We only had sun here for about half hour today, and they hatched then!
> 
> Thank you! Lots of good information! Yes, they are all yellow, like the color of the stick they were hatched out of. They are the same color as their mom, and since she only mated once, and the 7th egg case was laid a long time after she mated, so I thought they might be clones. . . She also called for a male (2 actually came through my open window!), and I could not bear to see them get eaten; I saved them. I guess I thought since she called, she needed more fertilization?
> 
> ...


My females also call again after they've laid their second or third ooth. Although one mating is good, my guess would be that the female might want to add a little more to what she has or that she might want genes from another male for genetic diversity.

As far as parthenogenesis, she won't have any males. Males will have to come from mating.


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## happy1892 (Mar 2, 2014)

happy1892 said:


> You need a lot of sticks in their containers. If you have nothing in their containers to hold onto they might die. I do not know about Iris oratoria, they might be alright living on the ground, but probably they would be better off hanging on sticks.


Sorry. Correction: They need something rough to hold on to, if they just have slippery plastic they keep running around the container and falling, but Iris oratoria might be different from Chinese Mantids and Carolina Mantids. At our house my siblings run around and sometimes nock over my things so it might just be a problem at my house and not anyone else's.


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## [email protected] (Mar 8, 2014)

Wow! that is interesting about the parthenogenesis!

and yes, I almost lost a couple babies on the glass when I was cleaning from a drop of water. They are better on sticks.

Also, I have only seen one drink water. If they are clones, that is why. Their mom HATED water and lost her legs because of it. She still laid eggs dehydrated and they are ALL healthy except 3 out of 26. Now I have other questions. I guess I should start a new post?


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## Extrememantid (Mar 8, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Wow! that is interesting about the parthenogenesis!
> 
> and yes, I almost lost a couple babies on the glass when I was cleaning from a drop of water. They are better on sticks.
> 
> Also, I have only seen one drink water. If they are clones, that is why. Their mom HATED water and lost her legs because of it. She still laid eggs dehydrated and they are ALL healthy except 3 out of 26. Now I have other questions. I guess I should start a new post?


They won't copy her personality.. It's all different, you just probably haven't seen the others drink and they get water from food.


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## [email protected] (Mar 9, 2014)

I am getting worried now because I keep seeing posts where humidity is needed for a good molt. While I was keeping the bottom of the cage 40-50% humidity at night. The top is 0%, where 7 are hanging, and during the day if I give them the UV bulb, or put them next to the door for fresh air, the humidity goes down to 0% even with constantly wetting paper towels and/ or trying to mist. I live in the desert and though they are acclimated, their mom lost her legs from never drinking water. It was my mistake not misting her. I only took her in once it got too cold out... I still don't know so much.

I tried moss that is not compact, and after it dried, it is now soaking the humidity right out of the air, it won't go over 30% at night. I am afraid to try to get the moss out of there now in case any started to molt.

Do I just keep them out of the light to leave some humidity?

I know sun is key!


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