# President Obama



## MantidLord (Nov 4, 2008)

Well, for all of you americans and american "watchers", Barrack Obama unofficially was elected president of the United States of America. Depending on wether or not McCain does a recount. (which I wouldn't considering the margin of victory). The first bi-racial president, let's see what, if anything, unfolds throughout his presidency. Much respect to both candidates, but I'm just glad it's over.(sick of the commercials, although it did give me a day off of school  )


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## Rick (Nov 5, 2008)

Sick of it as well. Glad it is over but not happy with the results.


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## PhilinYuma (Nov 5, 2008)

Rick said:


> Sick of it as well. Glad it is over but not happy with the results.


On the bright side, though, I had worried that Gov. Palin's opposition to funding for fruit fly research would block my application for photoperiod funding. Those daylight bulbs cost nearly $5.00......


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## Ian (Nov 5, 2008)

PhilinYuma said:


> On the bright side, though, I had worried that Gov. Palin's opposition to funding for fruit fly research would block my application for photoperiod funding. Those daylight bulbs cost nearly $5.00......


LOL, now that WOULD have been something to worry about


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## ABbuggin (Nov 5, 2008)

Rick said:


> Sick of it as well. Glad it is over but not happy with the results.


+1


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## MantisNation (Nov 5, 2008)

I'm also glad its over. Happy with the results aswell. This is was my first year able to vote and it couldn't have gone any better


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## The_Asa (Nov 5, 2008)

Glad it's over...but like Rick, definitely not happy at all with the results. &lt;_&lt;


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## sidewinder (Nov 5, 2008)

I too am glad the election is over. The results are not what I wanted either but I am hopeful that Obama will not be all bad. If he follows through on his campaign promise of change, maybe the changes won't be all bad. I do think that his election is an important historic milestone that I did not think would happen in my lifetime.

I am optimistic...

Scott


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## Andrew (Nov 5, 2008)

Rick said:


> Sick of it as well. Glad it is over but not happy with the results.


+2


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## hibiscusmile (Nov 5, 2008)

Don't get me started


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## cloud jaguar (Nov 5, 2008)

I am excited about the new president and hopeful for the future of my kids and a rebuilt US economy

 

I just hope we can all unite and work toward a better future for our kids and grandkids.


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## Peter Clausen (Nov 6, 2008)

I thought Obama's speech was the most moving moment I've ever seen on live TV.

(Here's a link to the fruit fly story that Phil was referring to...for those of you that didn't hear about it http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/261583 )


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## Kruszakus (Nov 6, 2008)

Thanks to your sodding little elections I could not watch re-runs of Happy Days - damn you!

Aaay!


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## mrblue (Nov 6, 2008)

very happy with the results!

i really can't imagine it having gone any other way. though after the 2000 debacle i half-expected the worst.


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## myles (May 25, 2011)




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## more_rayne (May 25, 2011)

Guiness is the worst beer I've ever tasted.


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## lancaster1313 (May 25, 2011)

I really like Guinness, but it is not for everyone.  Most people I know won't even drink the Guinness extra stout, but that is what I usually buy. More for me. :lol:


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## myles (May 27, 2011)

guinness is gorgeous , obama and his wife couldnt get enough of it , you yanks dont get the real guinness i had a pint in new york and it was awful


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## patrickfraser (May 27, 2011)

Who cares that "your's" tastes better "over there" than the swill here.




is



.

Probably the reason the president was telling jokes was to avoid letting it pass his lips. Always so PC.


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## lancaster1313 (May 27, 2011)

I have unfortunately never been able to try "native Guinness", but if the stuff here is awful then I will definitely have to try the real Guinness. I still like it better than most of the other beer available to me. :mellow:


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## kamakiri (May 28, 2011)

didn't notice a difference between guinness in the states...but hey, this is a freakin' old thread!! :lol:


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## Mr.Mantid (May 28, 2011)

I am not a fan of guiness or our president.


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## PhilinYuma (May 28, 2011)

Mr.Mantid said:


> I am not a fan of guiness or our president.


Duly noted, Mr. Mantid! What are your views on abortion, same-sex marriage and Medicare?


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## patrickfraser (May 28, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> Duly noted, Mr. Mantid! What are your views on abortion, same-sex marriage and Medicare?


LOL...ALL of the above...


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## myles (May 28, 2011)

patrickfraser said:


> Who cares that "your's" tastes better "over there" than the swill here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


what age are you PATRICK 16? that was an extremely childish reply so childish it made me laugh out loud , your irish name also added extra humour to your comment paddy :lol: 

ilikebugs luckily i can try it when ever i want  and it is YUMMMMMMMMMMMM , im on about pints of guinness , the cans/bottles are identical in taste really


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## jrh3 (May 28, 2011)

mylo said:


> guinness is gorgeous , obama and his wife couldnt get enough of it , you yanks dont get the real guinness i had a pint in new york and it was awful


Thats why we have homemade Muscadine wine, and apple pie moonshine. We had to perfect something B) . I do love real guinness BTW.


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## myles (May 28, 2011)

its not a contest of who has the best beer/drink lol i was just saying guinness doesnt travel well :clover: thats all


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## patrickfraser (May 28, 2011)

"what age are you PATRICK 16? that was an extremely childish reply so childish it made me laugh out loud , your irish name also added extra humour to your comment paddy :lol: "

Glad I could make you laugh. But age has nothing to do with discerning taste. ...&amp; NO, I'm not 16 (a quick check of my profile would tell you I am 40. I am a bit older, but have tasted lots of stuff to know that I'd rather enjoy a fragrant durian than put this swill down my gullet. I also don't see that being Irish should make it funnier, but enjoy yourself and have another.


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## lancaster1313 (May 28, 2011)

I guess everyone has their opinions.  I have found that not many people like Guinness at all around here, but the ones that do like it, like it alot. :lol: I will have to add that I would never intentionally drink  , and it is amusing how some of us can feel so strongly about the quality and taste of beers. :lol:


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## jrh3 (May 28, 2011)

likebugs said:


> I guess everyone has their opinions.  I have found that not many people like Guinness at all around here, but the ones that do like it, like it alot. :lol: I will have to add that I would never intentionally drink  , and it is amusing how some of us can feel so strongly about the quality and taste of beers. :lol:


 :lol: :lol: :lol: i like guinness mixed to make a black and tan. h34r: h34r: h34r:


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## lancaster1313 (May 30, 2011)

jrh3 said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: i like guinness mixed to make a black and tan. h34r: h34r: h34r:


What is it usually mixed with? I have heard of the drink, but I haven't tried it.


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## lancaster1313 (May 30, 2011)

I just realized how off topic this thread has become.  But I like discussing beer, and couldn't help myself. :devil2:


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## kamakiri (Jun 1, 2011)

likebugs said:


> What is it usually mixed with? I have heard of the drink, but I haven't tried it.


Bass pale ale...and too much of that this holiday weekend.


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## Mr.Mantid (Jun 1, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> Duly noted, Mr. Mantid! What are your views on abortion, same-sex marriage and Medicare?


Howdy Phil,

Sorry Phil, I did not see this post until tonight. I believe abortion is wrong, because it is murder. I believe same-sex marriage is also wrong because marriage is between a man and a wife. I do not know too much about Medicare so I can not give an honest opinion about it.

Cheers,

Mr.Mantid


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 1, 2011)

Mr.Mantid said:


> Howdy Phil,
> 
> Sorry Phil, I did not see this post until tonight. I believe abortion is wrong, because it is murder. I believe same-sex marriage is also wrong because marriage is between a man and a wife. I do not know too much about Medicare so I can not give an honest opinion about it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply, Mr. M! It never does any harm to testify about your convictions and I am sure that you will have ample opportunity to do so in college where you will meet committed gay couples and women who have chosen to have an abortion. You don't support your beliefs here, and I never asked you to, but if you have not done so already, I suggest that in addition to your science texts (did yoou get any of the ones I suggested?) you con up on your fundamentalist (I think that that is a fair term?) views.

You will be attacked from many quarters and required by Christians who oppose your views to support them with chapter and verse. One form of attack will demand to know why you so strongly attack abortion and homosexual marriage while overlooking the strictures on divorce in, say Matthew 9:19 Surveys show that there is little or no difference in the divorce rates of protestants than in the general population. Non Christians will ask the same question except that they will ask about Christianity's long acceptance of slavery when it was in fashion, from the Old and New Testaments until the abolition of slavery and about the tradition of "attainder of blood" long since discarded by modern society but at the very heart of Jesus's sacrifice on the cross.

I have long since lost much interest in such arguments; they never seem to make the opposition change sides, but I am a lover of language, and when you call abortion "murder" then in my book, you are committing a mortal sin. Abortion and birth control -- and you know how those little pills work, right? -- are not illegal in the US, and "murder" is by definition is the "unlawful taking of human life, usually with malicious premeditation." Your dictionary may differ in the exact wording but "unlawful" is the key adjective. Murder does not mean "a kind of killing that I really, really dislike." Call such killing "wanton", "heinous" or "clearly contrary to God's Divine Will", and I'll smile indulgently, but don't try to enforce your private opinions by giving them a legal force that they do not have and distorting a perfectly good word to serve your own ends.

Go get 'em Mr. Mantid!


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## Ricardo (Jun 3, 2011)

Marriage is about two people who love each other who want to commit to a lifetime together.

That's how I've been raised to understand it and still how I understand it today.

Gender should have nothing to do with marriage. Two people who want to be married should. End of story. There is no reason marriage should be exclusive to a straight couple if their aims are identical to those of a gay couple.

Abortion is as murderous as not using every single one of your sperm cells if you ask me.

Some are born some are not. Stopping one from being born whilst trillions of possible souls will be denied birth by things other then abortion is very minor. Life is about chance , and chances are out of the huge amounts of possible children that a couple could have only a few will succeed in living. Millions will perish into non existence. abortion is just adding one more of those denied souls to millions of others who because of fate could not be born. Not a big deal. Just life carrying on. And it's not even like they are souls that rival ours. We're talking about fetuses.

And if someone is raped why would they want to keep the child? I have no hard feelings for people getting abortions in such scenarios.


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## GreenOasis (Jun 3, 2011)

Looks like we're getting into ALL those topics that shouldn't be discussed if one wants to maintain a sense of civility!


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## Mr.Mantid (Jun 3, 2011)

Ricardo said:


> Marriage is about two people who love each other who want to commit to a lifetime together.
> 
> That's how I've been raised to understand it and still how I understand it today.
> 
> ...


I disagree.

Gender has everything to do with marriage.

mar·riage/ˈmarij/Noun

1. The formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.

Notice that it does not say a "man and a man" or "woman and a woman" Will two Hyrdogen atoms form an Oxide ion? No, Oxide contains a Hydrogen atom and an Oxygen atom. You cannot form an Oxide atom out of 2 hydrogen atoms joining or 2 oxygen atoms joining. Likewise two men or two woman cannot form a marriage. Marriage is defined as one man and one woman, as Oxide is defined as an Oxygen atom with a Hydrogen atom.

Individual sperm and egg cells are only alive in the same sense that any other human cell is "alive". A fetus differs than an individual sperm or egg cell as it is a LIVE HUMAN BEING with rights and a soul just like the rest of us.

Life isn't about chance, it's about purpose among other things. We began to exist for a reason, a purpose, not by some lucky dice throw that we began with that is continually going on.

Why should a rape victim keep their child? You recognise the unborn baby, (zygote, blastocyst, embryo, fetus) as a child. A child is a human being. The unlawful killing of a human being is murder. Therefore abortion is wrong. Rape is a tragic thing, but that tragedy shouldn't be compounded by another crime: Murdering the baby.


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## Mr.Mantid (Jun 3, 2011)

GreenOasis said:


> Looks like we're getting into ALL those topics that shouldn't be discussed if one wants to maintain a sense of civility!


If peoples cannot maintain a sense of civility I will not debate them. Likewise if I cannot maintain a sense of civility it's better for me to end the discussion in silence. So far everyone has been playing nice


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 4, 2011)

*Folks! don't read this if you are easily bored!*

Yeah, for a young man who has had very little practice in debate ( did you belong to a club at schoo?l), you do very well indeed, Mr Mantid. Your sincerity is very apparent and praiseworthy, but of course, sincerity doesn't bring us to "truth" whatever that may be, it merely affirms that we are saying what we believe in. Hitler was sincere in believing that the Jews should be exterminated, but what he and perhaps millions of tyhose who supported him is to us, an abomination. Start looking at technique. you must have noticed by now that I never say a rude word to anyone, but that can just make an insult even more infuriating.

After that discussion, we hadn't changed each other's beliefs one whit, and won't have after this, so, surely, we can make the debate one of skill rather than slamming opposing beliefs at each other, however sincere. WhatIi think I'll do now is to accuse you of holding beliefs that could destroy the fabric of our society, and though i am not American, I have lived here longer than most members of this forum! I shall do it without "raising my voice."

I notice that though you advance arguments that are typical of conservative American Christians, you never mention God the Father or Jesus Christ in your discourse. Why don't you testify to your faith? I know that Behe and his "intelligent design" as a substitute for "creation" -- demonstrated convincingly in open court when the prosecution revealed a first draft of the book -- was to get around Godless governmental laws so that our children could be taught God's truth rather than socialistic, dehumanizing, evolution,. but why do you hide your light under a bushel? (When arguing with Christians, I have found it a good idea to know plenty of biblical allusions and texts.)

By doing so and propounding articles of faith --your particular brand of faith -- you seem to be announcing them as part of the natural scheme of things, a view, surely at variance with the vast majority of the world's population including many Christians.

What you are surely trying to do, is impose your rather narrow Christian tenets on all Americans by having them made into the law of the land. Abortion is _not_ murder because it does not contravene the law of the land. Indeed, some Christian sects would regard despair as much more serious since it cuts us off from prevenient grace.

My mantids won't let me drag this on any longer, but you should have enough to get the idea. But I would like to know, if you have a moment why, if you are a Christian, you do not profess you faith.

Hang in there Mr. Mantid!  

.


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## jrh3 (Jun 4, 2011)

Ricardo said:


> Marriage is about two people who love each other who want to commit to a lifetime together.
> 
> That's how I've been raised to understand it and still how I understand it today.
> 
> ...


Marriage is not just about love, it is about commitment, and many other things. It is not just 2 people who love each other. There is a difference between brotherly love. It is also where 2 opposites of sex combine to make 1. If you can sho me where a gay marriage can continue life by creating children, I will show you a dwarf purple flying elephant that eats french fries. Gay marriage was not ment to be if it was one would be able to carry a child. Look at every animal on earth, how many gay animals do you see reproducing to continue the population, zip, nada, nill. Point made. :tank: Better yet how many animals do you see trying to woo the same sex, but yet you do see 2 males that fight over 1 female just to mate to REPRODUCE. There is a purpose of life dont get me started on abortion.


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## patrickfraser (Jun 4, 2011)

So, infertile straight people shouldn't marry either, right? Heaven forbid the infertility is due to a botched abortion.


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## jrh3 (Jun 4, 2011)

patrickfraser said:


> So, infertile straight people shouldn't marry either, right? Heaven forbid the infertility is due to a botched abortion.


i knew this was coming  . thats just a part of lifes purpose, some are not ment to concieve. please if you will show me where same sex is correct. What part of the life cycle or any cycle does 2 of the same connect, ever heard of sodom and gomorrah :chef:


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## patrickfraser (Jun 4, 2011)

I've heard of that place. I thought my friends were joking when they sent me a postcard last summer. Looks like a fun place with lots of "connections" and "hooking up". "Wish I were there".


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## Ricardo (Jun 4, 2011)

Mr.Mantid said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Gender has everything to do with marriage.
> 
> ...


Like I said before. Life is an endeavor of chance and if billions of potential babies cannot possibly be given the gift of life , then one fetus barely makes any difference. Plus why pass down the rapist genes?  kidding. Still though, I suppose we both understand where we stand about abortion. nothing more to really argue about that , it's now merely who agrees on what since we've already established why.

Also regardless of your definition of marriage , the concept of marriage at least, should be available to gay people.

Do you believe they do not have a right to commit to each other through ceremony? If we called gays getting married something else would you be okay or are you just against same sex relationships all together? This I'm rather curious to know. :huh:


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## Ricardo (Jun 4, 2011)

jrh3 said:


> Marriage is not just about love, it is about commitment, and many other things. It is not just 2 people who love each other. There is a difference between brotherly love. It is also where 2 opposites of sex combine to make 1. If you can sho me where a gay marriage can continue life by creating children, I will show you a dwarf purple flying elephant that eats french fries. Gay marriage was not ment to be if it was one would be able to carry a child. Look at every animal on earth, how many gay animals do you see reproducing to continue the population, zip, nada, nill. Point made. :tank: Better yet how many animals do you see trying to woo the same sex, but yet you do see 2 males that fight over 1 female just to mate to REPRODUCE. There is a purpose of life dont get me started on abortion.


You act as if we're animals who only get married to reproduce. I personally disagree.

Two gay men may love each other just as much and be just as committed as two straight people.

What exactly does continuing the human race have to do with marriage? I fail to see the relevance in your argument.

IF gay marriage wasn't meant to be because it doesn't continue the human race , then there's a lot of other things you probably love that " aren't meant to be "


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## kamakiri (Jun 4, 2011)

This thread was better when it was about beer.  

I used to do wedding photography on the side when the economy was better...and I have to admit that one of the most beautiful ceremonies I attended was a gay wedding. Weddings often have so much tension between the couple or their families that the day often just gets 'ugly'. There's a reason why wedding professionals coined the term 'bridezilla'.

And I have five nephews...two were conceived via IVF...and you CAN'T make me believe that they weren't 'meant to be'. Fabu (say fah-boo), if you think otherwise. :lol:


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## patrickfraser (Jun 4, 2011)

I'd rather have a child raised by a gay couple than the trash that spits them out annually and UNWED for a raise from their favorite uncle.


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 4, 2011)

A couple of observations.

First, I notice that many of the opinions above appeal to some kind of universal law without naming it.

Nobody mentions God although many arguments are based on Christian doctirne.

The appeal to tradition is selective.

"Gender" is .used where "sex" is traditional and appropriate.Is there something against the word "sex"? And yes, I know about the argument citing parental controls. Perhaps the filters should be changed rather than the word. "Sex' traditionally -- tradition advocates -- refers to male and female, gender to the grammatical forms masculine, feminine and neuter. Why confuse them?

If we look on heterosexual marriage as a tradition that dates back to Adam (whoever he was) we might want to look at the tradition that allowed Solomon to be polygamous, the tradition of slavery, the tradition of animal sacrifice, the ban on divorce, or the more recent European traditions of monarchy, feudalism, marriage of girls at twelve or younger or the disenfranchisement of women.

The biggest question, though, hinted at, but unaddressed, is whether our moral or ethical opinions should be enforced on those who don't believe in them, by law. A tradition- bound society, obviously, cannot evolve.

And let's not forget the Urrrgh factor. No one, of course, who opposes homosexual (or in New Speak, "same sex", probably soon to become "same gender") marriage says that they find the idea of "queers doing it" together, disgusting, no one says that "killing a baby" ( can anyone remember when they were called "fetuses"?) is shockingly abhorrent. But remarriage, there's nothing viscerally repulsive about that. A couple simply vows to their god that they will stay together for ever, breaks the vow and makes a new one. God is busy; he's probably forgotten the old vow already. Besides, isn't he all forgiving?

I hope that some of the debaters on this seriously hijacked and ancient thread will address some of these issues, but I am not holding my breath.


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## kamakiri (Jun 4, 2011)

patrickfraser said:


> I'd rather have a child raised by a gay couple than the trash that spits them out annually and UNWED for a raise from their favorite uncle.


Funny, I know of an actual example of this...and I have to agree. The gay couple has provided a loving and stable environment, when the unwed bioparents, uh, just couldn't.


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## kamakiri (Jun 4, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> ...but I am not holding my breath.


 :lol: Phil, I wouldn't want you to!  

I'm fiscally conservative...and I hate that being a Republican means being associated with the right-wing nutjobs.


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## patrickfraser (Jun 4, 2011)

It's funny that "Christianity" will be the ultimate destructor of this world. I look at it this way. God is a part of all of us. The spirit, or energy, that gives us life. God WILL destroy this world using his favorite children's hands. "lambs to the slaughter"??? At least they sound happy when singing their "praises. "

I didn't know their was so much HATE in religion!

WWBD (What would Buddha do?) I think he would just leave the blind followers to their madness and follow his own bliss.


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## massaman (Jun 5, 2011)

I am a christian and well wont get into any arguements but abortion is murder as its the taking of the life that god has created even before it was a single cell and what not and my only other statement is god made adam and eve and not adam and steve!

I have spoken!

 

Well I am going to speak again but this is all that will be said so I dont get tongue lashed to the slave stick!

these two passages explain the theory that life begins with conception.

The first is Psalm 139:13-15: "For thou didst form my inward parts, thou didst knit me together in my mother's womb... My frame was not hidden from thee when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth."

The second is Jeremiah 1:5, "Before I formed you in the belly I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb, I sanctified you, and I ordained you a prophet unto the nations." This verse simply refers to the concept of God's foreknowledge, and his divine plan for certain individuals, in this case, the prophet Jeremiah.


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## patrickfraser (Jun 5, 2011)

I read a book where if you get bit by a vampire you turn into one. Is that true, too?


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## massaman (Jun 5, 2011)

vampires made up characters!


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## Ricardo (Jun 5, 2011)

massaman said:


> I am a christian and well wont get into any arguements but abortion is murder as its the taking of the life that god has created even before it was a single cell and what not and my only other statement is god made adam and eve and not adam and steve!
> 
> I have spoken!
> 
> ...


This is only relevant if the bible is correct.

Seeing as the bible is full of flawed arcaic beliefs I have no reason to believe in it or the characters it describes.

Just another book among millions. Contrary to others , I find the older the book the more cautious we must be. Evil was apparent in the old days. The values were twisted but okay for the time. Not okay for this time though.


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## patrickfraser (Jun 5, 2011)

massaman said:


> vampires made up characters!


Well there was a cast of 1000's of characters in the movie titled "the Greatest STORY Ever Told". I hear they made it as close to "THE BOOK" as possible.


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 5, 2011)

patrickfraser said:


> I read a book where if you get bit by a vampire you turn into one. Is that true, too?


Of course it's true! Just tell me of _one_ person who was bitten by a vampire and didn't turn into one! In modern times, Buffy Sainte Marie (cf) has revealed how she had sex (sorry, gender) with a vampire and became one herself. Why would she lie about something like that? As a vampire, she holds her childhood crucifix and says "you are farther from me now than the two ends of eternity". Fine song, that!

Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBYq5Hieh_A


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## massaman (Jun 5, 2011)

be weary of the vampire obsession

vampire obsession


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## patrickfraser (Jun 5, 2011)

It's not an obsession. It's a lifestyle. And quite glamorous, I might add. Have you ever seen one really shimmer in the moonlight? You don't know what you're missing.


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## MantidLord (Jun 5, 2011)

:blink: I had no idea my thread would turn into the political debate arena. :lol: That's it, not going to add my 2 cents or anything.


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## PragmaticHominid (Jun 14, 2011)

jrh3 said:


> Look at every animal on earth, how many gay animals do you see reproducing to continue the population, zip, nada, nill. Point made. :tank: Better yet how many animals do you see trying to woo the same sex, but yet you do see 2 males that fight over 1 female just to mate to REPRODUCE. There is a purpose of life dont get me started on abortion.


I'm popping in here to say that anyone who thinks non-human animals don't engage in same-gender sexual behaviors... hasn't been around very many animals. Why, just yesterday my 8-month old Sheltie attempted to have carnal relations with my male cat. Indeed, my male cats frequently mount each other, despite the fact that they have access to females. It should be noted that all my pets and spayed or neutered. Anyone who's kept groups of parrots can also attest to the formation of same-gender pair bounds. And if you REALLY want to heard some stories, you can talk to just about anyone who has experience with keeping goats or other livestock. OR you could go visit the bonobo exhibit at your local zoo, though I'd advice you not to bring small children along, unless you're ready to answer some awkward questions about the birds and bees.

But you really don't have to take my word any of this.Wikipedia has a list of all the mammals that have been witness by researches engaging in same-gender sexual activity. There are similar lists that include birds, fish, reptiles and insects.

Limiting myself to the species with names that begin with "G", the following species have been witnessed engaging in "homosexual activities:"

- Gazelle

- Gelada Baboon

- Giraffe

- Goat (Domestic)

- Golden Monkey

- Gorilla

- Grant's Gazelle

- Grey-headed Flying Fox

- Grey Seal

- Grey squirrel

- Grey Whale

- Grey Wolf

- Grizzly Bear

- Guinea Pig (Domestic)

- Galah

- Gentoo Penguin

- Golden Bishop Bird

- Golden Plover

- Gray-breasted Jay

- Gray-capped Social Weaver

- Gray Heron

- Great Cormorant

- Greater Bird of Paradise

- Greater Flamingo

- Greater Rhea

- Green Sandpiper

- Greenshank

- Greylag Goose

- Griffon Vulture

- Guianan ######-of-the-Rock

- Guillemot

- Grayling (fish)

- Green swordtail

- Guiana leaffish

- Gopher Snake

- Green Anole

- Glasswing Butterfly

- Grape Berry Moth

- Grape Borer

- Green Lacewing


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## patrickfraser (Jun 14, 2011)

OOOOH! GORILLA!


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## PragmaticHominid (Jun 14, 2011)

BTW, the species that the forum censored is called "Guianan C0ck-of-the-Rock."


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## patrickfraser (Jun 14, 2011)

OOOOOOOOOOOH!


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 14, 2011)

Wiki missed out dolphins among whom male homosexuality has been observed in several species --including at the naval research center in Hawaii (don't ask, don't tell):

UNFAIR TO DOLPHINS!!!  

And fundamental Christians might remember this. Procreation wasn't God's original plan for nature in the Garden of Eden. If it had been "Adam and Bruce" or Eve and Ella, we might not have had the cOckup (sorry, couldn't help it) that the heterosexual (hetergender?) couple made of things. "And Bruce did offer him the apple, and Adam said unto him. 'No, let's try this saucy little Beaujolais I've just bottled. And they both did drink of the saucy Beaujolais, and it was good'".


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## patrickfraser (Jun 14, 2011)

Great vintage. So I've heard.


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## Ricardo (Jun 16, 2011)

jrh3 got pwned


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## AmandaLynn (Jun 17, 2011)

MantidLord said:


> :blink: I had no idea my thread would turn into the political debate arena. :lol: That's it, not going to add my 2 cents or anything.


Whoa! Is this what a political debate arena sounds like?


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## AmandaLynn (Jun 17, 2011)

MantidLord said:


> :blink: I had no idea my thread would turn into the political debate arena. :lol: That's it, not going to add my 2 cents or anything.


Whoa! Is this what a political debate arena sounds like?


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## AmandaLynn (Jun 17, 2011)

Ricardo said:


> Marriage is about two people who love each other who want to commit to a lifetime together.
> 
> That's how I've been raised to understand it and still how I understand it today.
> 
> ...


I agree that gender should have no restrictions against two adults making a life long commitment and agreement with each another. I support same sex marriage.

I totally disagree on your view of abortion though. Should every girl or woman repent or feel guilty for her unused egg when she gets her period? Sorry for the language but whatever  .

The difference to me is when a sperm and ova actually meet and make a new human, that is conception. A major biological change. That's how I started and every other human and mammal, it could have been under planned, but once we begin I think we should have the same rights as anyone else that can't speak for themselves.


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## Ricardo (Jun 17, 2011)

AmandaLynn said:


> I agree that gender should have no restrictions against two adults making a life long commitment and agreement with each another. I support same sex marriage.
> 
> I totally disagree on your view of abortion though. Should every girl or woman repent or feel guilty for her unused egg when she gets her period? Sorry for the language but whatever  .
> 
> The difference to me is when a sperm and ova actually meet and make a new human, that is conception. A major biological change. That's how I started and every other human and mammal, it could have been under planned, but once we begin I think we should have the same rights as anyone else that can't speak for themselves.


I understand, you make fair points. I support abortion but understand those who don't. Sometimes in arguments like gay rights, I totally dont get the opposing side and just naturally lose some respect, but when it comes to abortion Im totally cool with opposing veiwpoints. My view on abortion will change greatly as Im still just a kid, but I will still probably believe people should have the right to it if they want . . . Like I said life's all chance. . . In my opinion


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 17, 2011)

AmandaLynn said:


> Whoa! Is this what a political debate arena sounds like?


No. In a political arena, people stop saying "in my opinion", and start looking for action.

For example, a politician eager to win the votes of all of those who consider planned abortion as murder, might propose a law that would make it so. Perhaps he would win.

!.2 million women had abortions in the united states in 2008, and while the doctor who performed the abortion would automatically be found guilty, the woman who had the abortion and arranged for it with the doctor would be considered a co conspirators at the fetus's death.

So since we have seen that death penalty states like Texas still bring a steady stream of prisoners to execution, we can be sure that there will be say, half the current number, of women who are given life imprisonment or the death sentence annually, and when all the doctors who perform abortions in a sterile field have been killed, imprisoned or frightened off, we shall be back to good old Aunty Jane to do the dirty deed with a knitting needle.

So my question to those who have called abortion murder is, is this the kind of law that you would like to see passed in the US?

Hey! Here's an idea! To avoid charges of sexism, let's find the dads guilty of "carnal knowledge before the fact"! And if they say they didn't know that they had gotten the girl pregnant, there's always "depraved indifference".

Don't be shy, folks! Let's hear from you!


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## MantidLord (Jun 18, 2011)

I am going to say this. In regards to same sex marriage (no such thing as a gay marriage), I support their right to get married. You won't see me rallying or anything, but if someone wants to get married, let them. As a Christian, I stand firm by the belief of "who are we to judge?" Therefore, let them take it up with God and stop trying to police others' lives. Besides, it's this controlling behavior that makes others veer away from religion (specifically Christianity) in the first place. Now in terms of abortion, I do not think it should be used as a form of birth control or if someone makes an "accident". However, rape victims I have no problem with.

Now, in terms of the same sex animals. That can not equally be compared to humans. For one reason, those same specimens that exhibited same sex behavior ALSO mated with members of the opposite sex. Furthermore, in some social animals, this behavior seems to strengthen the bond of the whole group (clan, pride, or whatever it's called for that animal). And as stated, not all animals show this type of behavior. True many animals engage in homosexual behavior, compared to the TOTAL number of animals showing this behavior, it is definitely not many. In fact, the list of animals engaging in this behavior is in the MINORITY compared to the rest of the animals. And finally, homosexual behavior in animals has not been studied to a sufficient degree to use it to support either side of mankind's debate. So it's kind of useless to include this in the argument.


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## patrickfraser (Jun 18, 2011)

MantidLord said:


> I am going to say this. In regards to same sex marriage (no such thing as a gay marriage), I support their right to get married. You won't see me rallying or anything, but if someone wants to get married, let them. As a Christian, I stand firm by the belief of "who are we to judge?" Therefore, let them take it up with God and stop trying to police others' lives. Besides, it's this controlling behavior that makes others veer away from religion (specifically Christianity) in the first place. Now in terms of abortion, I do not think it should be used as a form of birth control or if someone makes an "accident". However, rape victims I have no problem with.
> 
> Now, in terms of the same sex animals.* That can not equally be compared to humans. For one reason, those same specimens that exhibited same sex behavior ALSO mated with members of the opposite sex. Furthermore, in some social animals, this behavior seems to strengthen the bond of the whole group (clan, pride, or whatever it's called for that animal). And as stated, not all animals show this type of behavior. *True many animals engage in homosexual behavior, compared to the TOTAL number of animals showing this behavior, it is definitely not many. In fact, the list of animals engaging in this behavior is in the MINORITY compared to the rest of the animals. And finally, homosexual behavior in animals has not been studied to a sufficient degree to use it to support either side of mankind's debate. So it's kind of useless to include this in the argument.


So if all gays would just say they are "bi", they might get a better status within our society and receive less hate? We are, after all, the most advanced "social animal" on the planet, right? But then again, animals don't know religion.


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## MantidLord (Jun 18, 2011)

I try to stray away from comparing humans to animals. If you consider humans the most "advanced social animal" then I would assume humans wouldn't engage in such tasks such as rape, brutal murder, genocide, and overall destruction of the planet (what other animal does all of this?). Now, you seem to misunderstand my remark about the strengthening bonds. In these animals, the engaging of sexual acts is not as..."significant" as we humans see it, or at least in the reproductive stand point. It's like a group of monkeys that groom each others' hair. It builds social bonds, so do these sexual acts. Furthermore, it may establish dominance in a social group. Look at prisons. Male rape isn't going on for the sole purpose of sexual gratification, it's DOMINANCE. A social behavior. And in the prison society, those that are "bi" do have the highest status. Now, you can't possibly compare animal society to human society in terms of building relationships, our behavior is far more complex. There are ways other than sex to establish and build upon relationships. However in other animals, a giraffe can't go buy another one a car or give them a birthday present to build a relationship. In short, you're comparing human social behavior to animal social behavior (which is broad in itself) in order to seek answers (or critique my previous post) about human behavior. Unfortunately, that won't work. The only reason I compared it to prison societies is because in prison, life isn't "normal". In fact many sociologists will argue that it is very _primitive_. Hence the ease it is to compare to animals.

Now, I don't know (nor do I care) if your last sentence was a satirical remark about religion. If it was, obviously you didn't fully read my post. If it wasn't, and I'm just reading into things, I'll say that religion, as well as race, gender, and other physical attributes and philosophical beliefs have been used to divide and fragment mankind since the creation of this world. It's entirely human nature but it will continue until mankind's destruction. So you won't see a dolphin beating up another dolphin because it's greyer than the other one.


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 18, 2011)

MantidLord said:


> I try to stray away from comparing humans to animals. If you consider humans the most "advanced social animal" then I would assume humans wouldn't engage in such tasks such as rape, brutal murder, genocide, and overall destruction of the planet (what other animal does all of this?). Now, you seem to misunderstand my remark about the strengthening bonds. In these animals, the engaging of sexual acts is not as..."significant" as we humans see it, or at least in the reproductive stand point. It's like a group of monkeys that groom each others' hair. It builds social bonds, so do these sexual acts. Furthermore, it may establish dominance in a social group. Look at prisons. Male rape isn't going on for the sole purpose of sexual gratification, it's DOMINANCE. A social behavior. *And in the prison society, those that are "bi" do have the highest status. *


You are diluting the force of yr argument, MantidLord, to a point where it is difficult to see your point, probably because you are being reactive rather than proactive.

Egregious errors like this don't help your case, either. There is no reason that you should know much about prison society, but if you don't, don't make statements like this without careful research.

Still, I continue to enjoy your posts! I can't remember if you are one of those who consider abortion murder. If so, could you reply to my earlier post about suitable punishments for the murderers who carry it out?


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## patrickfraser (Jun 18, 2011)

Humans ARE animals. Whatever. You've obviously spent more time in prison than I, so I can't argue anything there.


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## massaman (Jun 18, 2011)

well according to the bible people are not animals but made in gods image and if thats the case I doubt god would be called a animal and dont believe in we evolved but wont make any arguments because it is a no win situation and not into confrontations and turn the other way if any are forged!


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## lancaster1313 (Jun 18, 2011)

Many of the animals that mount the same sex, also will mount other species and even inanimate objects. But humans have been known to do that too. :lol:


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## MantidLord (Jun 19, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> You are diluting the force of yr argument, MantidLord, to a point where it is difficult to see your point, probably because you are being reactive rather than proactive.
> 
> Egregious errors like this don't help your case, either. There is no reason that you should know much about prison society, but if you don't, don't make statements like this without careful research.
> 
> Still, I continue to enjoy your posts! I can't remember if you are one of those who consider abortion murder. If so, could you reply to my earlier post about suitable punishments for the murderers who carry it out?


Phil, I don't remember saying abortion was murder, so if you would like to do the laborious task of finding the post where I said that, it would be greatly appreciated. In the meantime, I know I've always believed in what I said above, that abortion should not be used as birth control, but those who get an abortion should not be attacked and ridiculed as animals. Humans aren't the ones to judge. Phil, you making a statement about what I should or should not know is rather unlike you. There are many subjects I know about, yet have absolutely no experience or probably should "not" know about. In relation to the prison system, it was a multicultural class I've taken where a whole unit was devoted to the prison society. Also, listening and reading lectures form prison inmates regarding prison life can change ones perspective. Perhaps you should do the same. In other words, this "careful research" has already been done.

Now, if you can't see my point, I'll highlight it for you:

-Humans consider themselves the most advanced, social, and smartest creatures on Earth. However even the "dumbest" organisms on the planet don't go about murdering each other and committing heinous crimes against one another. Is this because we are not the smartest creatures, or is it a result of mankind being too advanced? You decide. I was simply pointing out the flaws of mankind being the most "advanced social animal" as Patrick put it.

-In terms of the sexual acts of animals, I simply stated that in animals it's not always for reproduction. Just how we humans and a few other animals engage in sex for gratification and not always reproduction, animals use sex for other means as well. Mainly, in the case of social animals and homosexual behaviors, that purpose is for strengthening bonds within the group and/or establishing dominance.

-Therefore, because of the differences that exist between human social behavior and animal social behavior, the two should not be compared. People should not look to animals to support or oppose the acts of mankind. Because with animals, it is different, their intentions and goals are different.

-As I stated in my previous post, the ease it is to compare animals to prison societies is due to how primitive those societies are. In prison, inmates basically live like animals so it's fascinating to see more similarities between the too societies. However in real life, modern society, people don't live primitive lifestyles; meaning you can't make the comparison to animals.

Does that help you?  



patrickfraser said:


> Humans ARE animals. Whatever. You've obviously spent more time in prison than I, so I can't argue anything there.


For a 40 year old, you obviously are immature. Rather than attack my argument, you go ahead and attack me. In a debate, that's called ad hominem. Whatever the case, I'll stoop down to your level in order to answer you. I've never spent time in prison in my life, never been arrested. Never committed a crime. Never had any family in prison. As such, never drank alcohol, never stole, never smoke, never illegally driven a car. Just because I READ BOOKS about various subjects, you want to assume I've experienced those things? Pathetic. Obviously someone as uncultured as you can't relate to other people or other cultures, so it's best that you don't argue anything, because you know your brain can't handle coming back with a valid response. So I accept you stepping out of the "argument".  



massaman said:


> well according to the bible people are not animals but made in gods image and if thats the case I doubt god would be called a animal and dont believe in we evolved but wont make any arguments because it is a no win situation and not into confrontations and turn the other way if any are forged!


Thank you Massaman, this I believe in. And you're right, no point in arguing. Obviously Patrick is too single minded to understand these views or at least understand that this is what others believe in.

P.S Happy Father Day!


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## patrickfraser (Jun 19, 2011)

I guess my small mind just can't comprehend your notions that humans are not animals. I will give you credit for saying so little by writing so much.


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## Rick (Jun 19, 2011)

This thread...............hmmmm.


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## MantidLord (Jun 19, 2011)

patrickfraser said:


> I guess my small mind just can't comprehend your notions that humans are not animals.


I guess so. It's unfortunate but don't be too hard on yourself.


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## patrickfraser (Jun 19, 2011)

I won't let it get me down



. I did here somewhere, maybe in an old book, that the meek shall inherit the Earth. I guess i'll just wait for my inheritance. Oh, and thanks for the "personal" slamming. REALLY mature.


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## MantidLord (Jun 19, 2011)

Patrick, perhaps you should do some research on that passage to understand what it's really saying. Your words and behavior don't qualify as "meek". So you'll be waiting for eternity. Not to mention the prison statement you made instead of coming up with a logical and well-balanced response, you made a sarcastic (and rather ignorant) remark. But it's okay, I'm more interested in what people who can post without attacking other members can say.

And I really hope my "slamming" didn't offend you too much. But that's what I gathered from you from your post.


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## kamakiri (Jun 19, 2011)

PragmaticHominid said:


> - Guinea Pig (Domestic)


Yeah, witnessed this first hand at PetSmart! :lol: 

And Happy Father's Day!


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 19, 2011)

Rick said:


> This thread...............hmmmm.


Yes, very hmmmm, and I'm out of here after this.

OK, Manridlord:

If you pursue a degree in biology and affirm that humans are not mammals,let alone "animals" you will have problems. Surely you know this?

I spent six months as a medic at Cook County Jail (good old "31st and California" for you Chicagoans) and my son spent years as a CO in both state (AZ) and Federal Prisons before joining ICE. I called him for his opinion on this topic and it agreed exactly with mine (surprise!).. Referring to the 2,000,000 or so prisoners in the US as "like animals" and therefore less, in some way, than those in the general population, does not do you or your argument much good.

Prisoners who are in for any length of time, though, do tend to join "gangs" for protection and this may be as high as 85% among long timers. In many ways, these simple organizations, call them "tribes" if you will, have many advantages over what you call the "real world"; they have no lawyers senators or representatives , for a start. Enforcement is often brutal, but the "real world" that threw them in jail to be "like animals" is pretty brutal, too. It's just that most of the brutality is hidden from the general public.

Sexual intercourse among male prisoners usually occurs between two heterosexual men and is based on domination, usually by threats. The prison population usually regards the dominant partner as "straight" and the submissive partner as "a queer". Simple as that.

I notice that you say that you never stated that abortion is murder and I believe you, but as a matter of interest can you state your view on whether it is or is not?

Cheers!


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## massaman (Jun 19, 2011)

Abortion Is Murder

Enough said!


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## MantidLord (Jun 19, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> Yes, very hmmmm, and I'm out of here after this.
> 
> OK, Manridlord:
> 
> ...


Phil, I don't appreciate you putting words into my mouth, I never said humans weren't mammals. I can pursue a degree in a biological science and maintain my beliefs. Obviously, there are Christian biologists who don't believe in evolution nor the idea that humans are animals. Surely you know this? Regardless, when people call humans animals, they tend to (at least in my experience) blame everything that humans do as natural. Humans are natural so they're only doing what they should naturally do. That's the main reason why I refrain from using the term. That and what Massaman posted.

Your time spent at a county jail doesn't really fit into this situation, jail is not the same as prison, so I'll only acknowledge your son's statement. You said his statement agreed with yours, however you NEVER stated anything. What's "yours"? Again, reread my post. I compared the society in which they live in as primitive. Do you not agree? I never said they were animals or less than, it really irritates me when the basis of someone's argument is nothing but fallacies and manipulation of another's words. Please read what I say Phil and don't add what you believe I feel or what you think I meant to say. Now, you went on to say how they don't have representatives, senators, etc. Does that not qualify as "primitive"? Is that the "advanced" society that humans associate with now? The "gangs" that you spoke up strongly resemble tribes, prides, or clans that you see social animals use in order to survive. I have no doubt that the "real world" is any less brutal than prison life. And I agree with you that the majority of the injustices of modern society is hidden from us. That is why a large majority of inmates find themselves back in prison after being released, they can't adjust back to the complicated (over complicated) modern life. Let me go off on a mini tangent by saying that prison is not a rehabilitation center. So Phil, I guess I can agree with what your son said, keep in mind that his perspective is from a correction officer and though he may have more insight than the average citizen, I would rather get my information from someone who's experienced prison life first hand from the prisoner's standpoint, that is, an ex inmate.

Now, didn't I say that sexual intercourse was also used as a form of dominance in the prison system? Apparently you really didn't read any of my posts Phil, because I said it twice. I even went as to say the dominant one is held high in the prison society. However I labelled the dominant one as "bi" in response to Patrick's first response to my post.

Phil, the majority of your post (save for the first part about biology and animals) does nothing but support my earlier statements. So although I admit in the beginning of replying I was kind of irritated. I thank you now for supporting me and bringing your son in to give me some back up. But seriously though, I don't have to believe everything regarding the "non-creationism" aspect of biology in order to become a successful biologist.

You want to know what I think my view on abortion is in a rather simple context. Is it murder or not. Well unfortunately I can't give you a single response. I believe it's circumstantial. Getting an abortion because you're "not ready" for a kid or because it was an "accident" is murder. Getting an abortion because having the baby maybe detrimental to your own life or due to the pregnancy being the result of rape (regardless of the child being hers, a mother can never forget how that child came to be) is not murder.

Oh! Speaking of which. I remember on another thread you and other forum members were suggesting I major in Biology because my entomology classes would leave out a lot of "core" subjects I would learn in bio. Well after visiting Cornell and talking to one of the entomology professors, he showed me all of the classes I would take if I were to major in Bio vs Ento. And the differences are major. They realize what you guys had said and designed the department in order to counter the missing of information. I still take my organic chem and other classes that Bio kids take.


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## patrickfraser (Jun 19, 2011)

I'm with you, Phil. I'm out, too.


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## PragmaticHominid (Jun 20, 2011)

MantidLord said:


> Phil, I don't appreciate you putting words into my mouth, I never said humans weren't mammals. I can pursue a degree in a biological science and maintain my beliefs. Obviously, there are Christian biologists who don't believe in evolution nor the idea that humans are animals.


Humans are mammals but they aren't animals? Lol, how do you figure that? Last time I checked, all mammals are animals.

Well, no need to answer. Like the clever fellows above me, I am swearing off this nonsensical thread.


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## Emile.Wilson (Jun 20, 2011)




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## MantidLord (Jun 20, 2011)

Haha I love the US Office.


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## lancaster1313 (Jun 20, 2011)

:lol: I was loving the debate as well!


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## angelofdeathzz (Jun 20, 2011)

Wow! I just skimmed through some of this for the first time, and I must say this is "ONE MESSED UP THREAD"!!!


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## Ricardo (Jun 22, 2011)

lolreligion

We are not animals people! Despite the fact that we breed like them, we eat for energy, dispose of our waste ... ( the list goes on ) We are in fact gods elite chosen . . . Yes so holy.

All sarcasm aside I think we are everything BUT holy , and we are only special because of our intelligence, but other species have intelligence, making us, again not at all as special as people often go on about.

Yes we are animals, as is observable through science, or my method which seems to often do wonders " common sense ".

Are humans animals? Yes . . . Yes I believe we are.

wait what the heck, am I ACTUALLY arguing on the topic of " Are humans animals " ? This is ridiculous. I feel embarrassed for getting engaged in this loooooooool


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## PragmaticHominid (Jun 22, 2011)

I share your astonishment and annoyance that this subject is even up for discussion, Ricadro.

Saying humans are mammals but not animals is like saying that beef steak is meat but not food. It's completely senseless.


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## AmandaLynn (Jun 26, 2011)

Animal, vegetable, mineral, um... gas?

Anyway here's a link to watch,My link


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## lancaster1313 (Jun 26, 2011)

AmandaLynn said:


> Animal, vegetable, mineral, um... gas?
> 
> Anyway here's a link to watch,My link


I bought that movie many years ago. That reminds me to watch it again. :lol:


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## angelofdeathzz (Jun 26, 2011)

Here's the low down:

The word "animal" comes from the Latin word _animalis_, meaning "having breath". In everyday colloquial usage, the word usually refers to non-human animals.Sometimes, only closer relatives of humans such as mammals and other vertebrates are meant in colloquial use. The biological definition of the word refers to all members of the kingdom Animalia, encompassing creatures as diverse as sponges, jellyfish, insects and humans.

Animals have several characteristics that set them apart from other living things. Animals are eukaryotic and mostly multicellular, which separates them from bacteria and most protists. They are heterotrophic, generally digesting food in an internal chamber, which separates them from plants and algae. They are also distinguished from plants, algae, and fungi by lacking rigid cell walls.All animals are motile,if only at certain life stages. In most animals, embryos pass through a blastula stage, which is a characteristic exclusive to animals.

Who hasn't seen a person drink way too much and watched the Animal come out? :lol: I just had too stick my nose in.


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## MantidLord (Jun 27, 2011)

Um, why are you losers still worried about this thread? And the fact that some people like Ricardo can't respect other's beliefs proves how immature he is. If you actually understood Christianity, you'd know how man is truly depicted and how they aren't glorified as holy, anything but. I suggest you do research before you make yourself sound any more stupid. And pragmatic, thanks for never replying, apparently you don't have the ability to reply back to message but you'd want to keep a thread going that you yourself said you'd leave. Hypocrite. I'm outta this thread.

And if you have the ability to READ, you'd see that the discussion wasn't initially about whether humans are animals. It stemmed from homosexuality observed in animals. READ morons before you post. Because from where I'm standing, no one came up with a valid counter argument to my statement.


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## patrickfraser (Jun 27, 2011)

MantidLord said:


> Um, why are you losers still worried about this thread? And the fact that some people like Ricardo can't respect other's beliefs proves how immature he is. If you actually understood Christianity, you'd know how man is truly depicted and how they aren't glorified as holy, anything but. I suggest you do research before you make yourself sound any more stupid. And pragmatic, thanks for never replying, apparently you don't have the ability to reply back to message but you'd want to keep a thread going that you yourself said you'd leave. Hypocrite. I'm outta this thread.
> 
> And if you have the ability to READ, you'd see that the discussion wasn't initially about whether humans are animals. It stemmed from homosexuality observed in animals. READ morons before you post. Because from where I'm standing, no one came up with a valid counter argument to my statement.










*JK!*


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## angelofdeathzz (Jun 27, 2011)

MantidLord said:


> Um, why are you losers still worried about this thread? And the fact that some people like Ricardo can't respect other's beliefs proves how immature he is. If you actually understood Christianity, you'd know how man is truly depicted and how they aren't glorified as holy, anything but. I suggest you do research before you make yourself sound any more stupid. And pragmatic, thanks for never replying, apparently you don't have the ability to reply back to message but you'd want to keep a thread going that you yourself said you'd leave. Hypocrite. I'm outta this thread.
> 
> And if you have the ability to READ, you'd see that the discussion wasn't initially about whether humans are animals. It stemmed from homosexuality observed in animals. READ morons before you post. Because from where I'm standing, no one came up with a valid counter argument to my statement.


I thought the anger was directed at me, but It wasn't, the reason I edited here. my bad... :blush:


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## PragmaticHominid (Jun 27, 2011)

Goodness. Someone seems to be projecting.


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