# Heating and Thermoregulation?



## TisRayMan (Dec 12, 2019)

I have seen on the forum setups (posted by Synapze - please let me know if I should cite the post) for the individual mantis in 32oz. plastic specimen cups arrayed and stacked.  What I’m wondering is, what is the method for heating a setup like this, with individual containers?  I get that you can  use a thermostat/hygrometer with the sensor in an empty cup top and center in the stack.

Do you heat a setup like this with heat tape, a heat pad underneath, or under a heat lamp?  Or is there another method? Should all the cups be kept, for instance, within a large terrarium?   How do you keep temperatures consistent and even across the colony, especially from one level of the stack to the other?  If that isn’t easy, Is it why you rotate the cups, to spread the variation equally between specimens?  I am guessing the mantis needs to be able to thermoregulate, so how does that work?

I guess keeping a communal species would be easier in this respect, so I’m just wondering about the less-communal ones.  My apologies for asking so many questions lol… and thanks in advance!


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## Synapze (Dec 12, 2019)

TisRayMan said:


> I get that you can  use a thermostat/hygrometer with the sensor in an empty cup top and center in the stack.


That's how I do it with my 32 oz specimen containers. That's my control cup and I use 25 watt heat bulbs in shop light fixtures to regulate heat for each grouping; the aluminum shade seems to help with hest distribution. One cup of each species has a sensor which make the cups easier to arrange. Specimens which need higher temps are closer to the control cup; lower temp requiring specimens farthest from the control cup. It actually works like a charm for me since I only need to boost the temps from the average night-time temp of 68 degrees in my home. I can heat each grouping of cups (approximately 4 groups of 25-30 32oz cups) with one 25 watt heat bulb for each group. I started my method with a 75 watt bulb, but that was too much heat. The 25 watt worked best with my configuration. I try to use as little electric as possible... I'm cheap so I can afford more mantids.  I rotate the cups every day or so,  more for light exposure than heating. My entire collection uses approximately 200 watts during the coldest of days/nights in my area. My large enclosures are heated by one long dual heating cable running in two rows under each one. I also use a control enclosure for the thermostat on the large enclosures. A little primitive, and I been chuckled at more than once, but as long as I can maintain recommended temps a few laughs don't bother me.  One important note: this really only works well in a draft free area and I increase the temp during the day to help with digestion.  



TisRayMan said:


> Should all the cups be kept, for instance, within a large terrarium?


I've seen tall standing clear plastic "cabinets" (used mainly for plants) which I bet would also work great.  

A terrarium/aquarium would certainly be more energy effective since it could probably be heated using a low watt bulb or heat mat. High temp requiring specimens obviously need a little more sophisticated setup. 

This works for me, but I can't speak for others.


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## TisRayMan (Dec 13, 2019)

Ty for all the important details!  I would chuckle back at those folks . Your methods sound ingenious and efficient.  Using a gentle heat source makes sense for a somewhat delicate creature like a mantid!   Is it a DIY project to hook heating cables to a control enclosure? 



Synapze said:


> Specimens which need higher temps are closer to the control cup; lower temp requiring specimens farthest from the control cup.


As you mentioned you have four large groups of 25-30, are the specimens which don’t need as much heat of the same species as the ones stacked atop them, which for whatever reason you’d like differing growth rates, or do you mix species within each group, placing the lower temp species beneath?



Synapze said:


> I increase the temp during the day to help with digestion.﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿


What is an effective temp differential from night to day?  Out of curiosity, do mantids require the option to thermoregulate very much?  I have raised ball pythons which thrive at up to a range of 16 degrees or so; what works for mantids?

TY again 4 your time!


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## Synapze (Dec 13, 2019)

TisRayMan said:


> Is it﻿﻿﻿ ﻿a DIY project﻿ to hook heating cables to a control enclosure?


Absolutely. I run 2 tracks on each shelf. The enclosures are all identical, including the control enclosure which has the thermostat probe. Every enclosure on that track reads the same approximate temperature. My enclosures have a 1/2 inch layer of small aquarium gravel in the bottom under a layer of thin substrate. I've found with the layer of gravel, the thermostat cycles on and off less frequently. 



TisRayMan said:


> you mentioned﻿﻿﻿ ﻿you have four large groups of 25-30, are the specimens which﻿﻿ don’t﻿ need as much heat of the same species as the ones stacked atop them, which for whatever reason you’d like differing growth rates, or do you mix species ﻿within each group, placing the lower temp species ﻿beneath?


I just started stacking 3 levels and I had to put a little more thought into arrangement... but still working fine. Depending on the recommended temp levels, the hardier species are level one, intermediate level two, high temp species level three. I only mix species on levels if their recommended heat requirements are approximately the same. Since the heat lamp is above the stack, adjustments can also be made by moving cups to the outer perimeter. It just takes a little experimenting and lots of temperature probes.  I don't use this method if I'm trying to control growth rates for breeding; those specimens get separated by sex into warmer areas of the house to prevent pheromone saturation... not sure if that's the proper term. 



TisRayMan said:


> What﻿ is an effective temp differential from night to day?  Out of curiosity, do mantids require the option to thermoregulate very much?  I have raised ball pythons which thrive at up to a range of 16 degrees or so; what﻿ works for mantids﻿?
> 
> TY again 4 your time!


Most mantids can take a 68° dip at night, but I jack it up to 75-80 during the day. Since they need heat for proper digestion, they need a warmer period during the day. The room gets lots of sun exposure and of course the boost in overall house temp helps. I usually unstack them during the day depending on feeding and misting schedules. 

This works well for me. I only have to use this stacking heat setup for the really cold nights (occasionally a few cold days) for a couple of months. I disassemble my entire heat setup as soon as the weather begins to warm up. I just recently acquired a species that needs high temps (85+) but I was able to maintain their temp last night until I have time to finish up a better heated enclosure today. I might invest $30 for one of the portable houseplant greenhouses next year depending on how many nymphs I plan on keeping. 

Anytime... no problem! I hope you're able to glean some useful information.


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## Tonypace2009 (Dec 14, 2019)

My setup is small room with oill filled electric heater keeps temp 78  to 80 with slightly higher daytime temps. I have at one shelf wich is a wire shelf a che ceramic heat emmiter bulb that heats my hot species violins and above the heat emitter right now keep redrunners and firebrats but can run temps up to 85 to even 92 degrees depending on how close I put enclosure also using large mesh enclosure allowed mantids to move around to some what self regulate temp. As for added humidity my favorite is shallow containers with 1/4 to 1/2 inch of vermiculite with a layer of moss to hold moisture also keep moss in a closed container with springtails in the moss that will help keep mold at bay. The shallow moss  vermiculite container I put into large gasket tubs that have ventalation I keep smaller nymphs and even 12 x 12 mesh enclosures in these large tubs. Have simular setup for my orchid nymphs works great.


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## TisRayMan (Dec 14, 2019)

@Synapze &amp; @Tonypace2009 yeah I definitely gathered from you guys some valuable concepts I can base my own setups on! It sounds like it takes some improvisation to get it right.  Thanks again for sharing your expertise


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## hysteresis (Dec 16, 2019)

I irradiate areas with CHEs. These are ceramic lightless lamps, or IR emitters.

I can wash a lamp along a shelf and warm the entire area. I put a species where it should be in the wash, according to how much heat it needs.


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## TisRayMan (Dec 26, 2019)

hysteresis said:


> I irradiate areas with CHEs. These are ceramic lightless lamps, or IR emitters.
> 
> I can wash a lamp along a shelf and warm the entire area. I put a species where it should be in the wash, according to how much heat it needs.


Thanks for that!  So is there an advantage to ceramic heat emitters over light bulbs?  And, forgive me, but what does it mean to 'wash a lamp'?  (and in this case you use light bulbs, correct? when do you use light bulbs vs IR emitters?)


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## hysteresis (Dec 26, 2019)

TisRayMan said:


> Thanks for that!  So is there an advantage to ceramic heat emitters over light bulbs?


They're lightless. Heat only.



TisRayMan said:


> And, forgive me, but what does it mean to 'wash a lamp'?


Imagine walking down a road w a flashlight. Everywhere the light shines is 'in the wash' of the light.


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## TisRayMan (Dec 26, 2019)

hysteresis said:


> They're lightless. Heat only.


Right, I get that.  I'm just wondering, why is it better not to have light?  Is it more energy efficient, or is it better for the mantids' well-being?  Sorry if I'm missing something obvious!



hysteresis said:


> Imagine walking down a road w a flashlight. Everywhere the light shines is 'in the wash' of the light


Ahh, I see... learn something new every day!


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 27, 2019)

I prefer heat lamps since it's easier to tell how far the heat is reaching, since you can see the light wash as @hysteresis mentioned.

- MantisGirl13


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## Synapze (Dec 27, 2019)

.


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## TisRayMan (Dec 28, 2019)

MantisGirl13 said:


> I prefer heat lamps since it's easier to tell how far the heat is reaching, since you can see the light wash as @hysteresis mentioned.
> 
> - MantisGirl13


Interesting... so you have to use some intuition there.  Does one use a thermometer and hygrometer at both the center and the outermost part of the wash, to establish a range of conditions?


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## MantisGirl13 (Dec 28, 2019)

TisRayMan said:


> Interesting... so you have to use some intuition there.  Does one use a thermometer and hygrometer at both the center and the outermost part of the wash, to establish a range of conditions?


I pretty much eyeball it, spray a few times a day, depending on what species, and call it good. If I have a sensitive species, I use a thermometer and hygrometer, but I don't usually. 

- MantisGirl13


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