# Strange Spots On Orchid Abdomen



## FabioFabiatic (Jul 9, 2020)

This isn't mine, but I am personally interested to see what happened to the mantis.

According to the person she was fed 2 wild-caught flies recently which is my best guess of what caused this, but I'm still unsure. I really hope one of you experts can figure out what caused this because nobody on Reddit could and for some reason the person wouldn't post it here. 










And this is her current condition.


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## MantisGirl13 (Jul 9, 2020)

That doesn't look good. From the second photo it looks like bad constipation, an infection, something. 

- MantisGirl13


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## hysteresis (Jul 9, 2020)

FabioFabiatic said:


> This isn't mine, but I am personally interested to see what happened to the mantis.


Did this mantis perish? Infection (in my experience) has always looked darker, but I suppose that could be early stage of infection.


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## FabioFabiatic (Jul 9, 2020)

No from what I know its still alive. 

But whatever is happening is unlike anything I've seen before. I'll ask them is she is defecating properly. 

Some people are throwing around the idea of a gut impaction, but I've never heard of it before.


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## Orchid1983 (Jul 10, 2020)

That's my orchid!! Thanks for posting this.  She has faired a bit better with honey water only, I'll do a picture for you this morning.  She is very much still alive, alert if I bend down to her level to view her she still whips round like I could be the next meal, but at present I daren't feed her.


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## Orchid1983 (Jul 10, 2020)

She looks slightly less impacted today, she has been oozing out the back end so things are definitely moving.  She has however developed these strange 'outlines' of dots on all her leg petal lobes - is this just sign of a molt soon? She literally went from a flattish abdomen to hugely swollen overnight, it's been such a worry!


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## hysteresis (Jul 10, 2020)

Orchid1983 said:


> She has however developed these strange 'outlines' of dots on all her leg petal lobes - is this just sign of a molt soon?


Ive heard of changes to the lobes preceding a molt. Ive not observed it though. 

Good luck with the abdomen. Not seen this either. Doesn't look right, though.


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## FabioFabiatic (Jul 10, 2020)

hysteresis said:


> Not seen this either. Doesn't look right, though﻿.﻿


Exactly, never have I seen something like this. I don't know but it might seem to be getting worse seen as the abdomen spots are darkening, making me think it might be bacterial or possibly fungal. 

But it could it possibly be some type of chemical she was in contact with that would cause this? She has those marks on the legs, and I don't think they look like marks they get before molts.

How is she acting though? Lethargic and weak or is she energetic? Does she have an appetite? Will she take water? Is moving around abnormally? What does this strange oozing substance look like? 

If it was possibly a parasite, which is unlikely, but still a possibility because of the wild flies how could that be treated? 

Also @hysteresis your more experienced than me, do you think it might be a good idea to move her to a paper towel bottom deli cup? Just in case its something in her enclosure that caused this. Plus, she could be better observed for new symptoms. 

I really hope this beautiful girl will be ok and that we can figure out what caused this so this doesn't happen to any more mantises.


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## Orchid1983 (Jul 10, 2020)

She is happily lapping at honey water, I daren't give her a fly incase she is impacted and cannot fit it in. She is alert, eyes still look healthy, it's all very very strange. The ooze was more like a slightly more liquid poop as that was the first day she had a huge drink of honey after the picture that shows a really dark end of the abdomen. 

Would anybody feed her or not? This is day 3 of onset of symptoms so day 3 of no meal except honey water. It was so strange how suddenly she completely swelled in her abdomen.


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## MantisGirl13 (Jul 10, 2020)

I'd keep her on the honey water, maybe mix in some prey guts if she'll take them. Keep her on a liquid diet for now. Keep us updated! 

- MantisGirl13


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## Orchid1983 (Jul 11, 2020)

This morning - still transluscent patches, but alert and alive as ever, we have risked a soldier fly and she took it with gusto. Abdomen possibly decreasing in size which is good, I'm just worried that what could have happened is an internal rupture, hence her meals and honey water are just pooling round her insides, resulting in the swelling and the translucent and black patches?  She seems very lively so surely if that was the case she wouldn't be?


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## FabioFabiatic (Jul 11, 2020)

Orchid1983 said:


> I'm just worried that what could have happened is an internal rupture, hence her meals and honey water are just pooling round her insides, resulting in the swelling and the translucent and black patches?  She seems very lively so surely if that was the case she wouldn't be?﻿


If this was the case I highly doubt she would be alive now, not to mention having a healthy appetite. I also don't understand how this internal rupture could have happened and how it could have caused her abdomen to swell to this size overnight. Still a mystery what caused this. 

By the way, do you know what instar she is? the more molts she has left the more likely she would probably be able to be a normal/semi-normal looking adult, assuming she doesn't go downhill and perish. Things look good now, but I'm just wondering how this could affect her next molt.


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## Orchid1983 (Jul 11, 2020)

http://imgur.com/gallery/6xXM5ke


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## Orchid1983 (Jul 11, 2020)

She is most likely L6, she wasn't a nymph when we got her but she could have only had 1 molt before us, and has had 4 very easy/successful molts with us. We can see definite wing buds now.


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## MrGhostMantis (Jul 11, 2020)

She looks L7.

Possibly bloated would be my guess. Also, you could be seeing the honey water in her intestines. No idea about the clear spots though. Could she have rubbed up against something?


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## hysteresis (Jul 11, 2020)

Getting darker. That one really dark spot. Yikes.

Good luck.


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## MantisMart (Jul 11, 2020)

Sorry that happened. Im new to Mantids so I have no idea. Ill pray for her though.


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## FabioFabiatic (Jul 12, 2020)

@Orchid1983 

How is she doing? Anything new?


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## Orchid1983 (Jul 13, 2020)

This is right now. She is alert, walking around, interested in food, she seems completely normal apart from the translucent spots and dark spots! As you can see in this video she was finally in the right position for me to video, that as she pulsate her abdomen at times, you can see the black marks move as though they are suspended in her abdomen and not actual discolouration of her exoskeleton. This is why I wondered if it was some sort of internal rupture due to over eating or an impaction but like people say, she would be dead by now! Other than her appearance she hasn't changed temperament at all! 

View attachment 20200713_171722.mp4


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## MantisMart (Jul 13, 2020)

I hope she will be ok.


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## MantisGirl13 (Jul 13, 2020)

That is really strange. I'm glad she's acting normal. I'm interested to see what she's like after a molt.

- MantisGirl13


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## FabioFabiatic (Jul 13, 2020)

MantisGirl13 said:


> That is really strange. I'm glad she's acting normal. I'm interested to see what she's like after a molt.


I know right!!


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## Orchid1983 (Jul 14, 2020)

I can't wait for the molt either, I'm just not sure when it will be!


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## FabioFabiatic (Jul 18, 2020)

@Orchid1983 and updates? Has her abdomen shrunk in size at all?


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## Orchid1983 (Jul 19, 2020)

I'll post a photo later when I get out of bed  She continues to stay alert, seems more mobile lately, definitely pooping fine, still hungry too.

In case it was over feeding, how much should a female L6 orchid eat? We have gone down to one soldier fly every other day at the moment with honey water in between but is this too little now? I don't want to overfeeding her again if that was the case so any advice?


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## Orchid1983 (Jul 19, 2020)




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## MrGhostMantis (Jul 19, 2020)

Swap that mesh metal mesh is really bad for their feet. It's good she is still alive and kicking!


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## hysteresis (Jul 19, 2020)

@hierodula 

Have you seen anything like this before?


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## FabioFabiatic (Jul 19, 2020)

Its hard to tell, but I believe she looks better, still, her abdomen is huge. Keep us updated and good luck with her!


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## FabioFabiatic (Jul 27, 2020)

Has she molted yet? I have a similar sized Orchid at the same instar and what looked like at the same level of development as yours and she just molted.


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## Orchid1983 (Jul 29, 2020)

Not yet, but still hanging in there!


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## FabioFabiatic (Aug 9, 2020)

Has she molted yet?


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