# Calling All Mantid Injury Diagnosticians - Report At Once



## Digger (Mar 15, 2013)

This male Hierodula membranacea arrived today, via Fed Ex, from a long journey. It appears he sustained two abdominal breeches as shown in the two photos. The droplets are a honey water mix I applied to the wounds. Anyone had experience with this type of problem. If so, did the mantis survive? Thanks for any feedback! -- Digger


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## Bug Trader (Mar 15, 2013)

I have had injuried like this show up when receiving larger mantids. Thee have been debated on superglue to you name it but if your looking to seal the wounds just be aware it can harden the area and make it difficult or impossible for the male to bend around to mate.


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## sinensispsyched (Mar 15, 2013)

Are you talking about the red marks on the abdomen?

If so, they're just stretch marks on a very fat mantis. No harm to it at all.


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## brancsikia339 (Mar 15, 2013)

I agree, if that is what you're referring to


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## psyconiko (Mar 15, 2013)

A bit too fat though,just like it was fed with a big worm....


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## Malakyoma (Mar 15, 2013)

Nikkko said:


> A bit too fat though,just like it was fed with a big worm....


He actually ate his brother before leaving, and he was already fat beforehand. I had a couple of them together in a big space and well fed but they still grabbed each other.


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## psyconiko (Mar 15, 2013)

It does not look good.It is going to die I am afraid.


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## angelofdeathzz (Mar 15, 2013)

One more note, thats where they breathe from, kind of like a simple lung so sealing it could be detrimental to its health.


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## Paradoxica (Mar 15, 2013)

Are we looking at the same thing here? When I had a H. Membranacea the red marks between segments would show after every large meal. And he made it to adult just fine.


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## agent A (Mar 15, 2013)

Normal coloration


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## patrickfraser (Mar 15, 2013)

Stretch marks and nothing to worry about, except if wearing a bating suit. :lol: Vitamin E is better than honey for stretch marks


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## Digger (Mar 15, 2013)

Thanks for the info. I'm unfamiliar with this sp. and, on close inspection this just didn't look good. As of this hour, he's hanging upside down and is contracting his raptors. Good sign. The digestive tract is functioning as he has pooped out what we assume is some of his brother. Angel, the mantis spiracles are higher up, on the sides. No breathing trouble where the honey solution was placed.


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## gripen (Mar 15, 2013)

Forgive me for saying this but I think that the honey is more important to ou than it is to the mantis. Honey is not the end all be all in mantis care. While yes it is good to feed them honey as a treat every once in a while it is not a medicine. I strongly question the benefits of honey in any non treat situation.


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## Digger (Mar 15, 2013)

Honey is a mild antibacterial. Believing this was an abdominal breech, it was a better than nothing.


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## Mime454 (Mar 16, 2013)

This is normal. The red marks underneath they extend when threatening to make them look scarier. This is just a fat mantis, don't feed so much and he should be fine.


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## Malakyoma (Mar 16, 2013)

Mime454 said:


> This is normal. The red marks underneath they extend when threatening to make them look scarier. This is just a fat mantis, don't feed so much and he should be fine.


Was my fault. I fed him the morning of shipping then he grabbed another mantis he was sharing a room with.


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## Mime454 (Mar 16, 2013)

Malakyoma said:


> Was my fault. I fed him the morning of shipping then he grabbed another mantis he was sharing a room with.


Do you have any adult males of this species? Or late subs?


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## Malakyoma (Mar 16, 2013)

Mime454 said:


> Do you have any adult males of this species? Or late subs?


yeah I have one adult male and 1 sub. my other male is slow developing for some reason. both females are sub. I didnt know you were looking for Membranacea.


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## Mime454 (Mar 16, 2013)

Malakyoma said:


> yeah I have one adult male and 1 sub. my other male is slow developing for some reason. both females are sub. I didnt know you were looking for Membranacea.


I have an adult female that mated with a decapitated male for less than an hour. Not sure if it was successful. I'm not sure if I want to try again. Might just let this species fall out of my culture, might buy an ooth later.


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## gripen (Mar 16, 2013)

Digger said:


> Honey is a mild antibacterial. Believing this was an abdominal breech, it was a better than nothing.


ok maybe so. But you are not a trained insect physician. I would say more often than not you would be doing more harm than good.


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## Malakyoma (Mar 16, 2013)

gripen said:


> ok maybe so. But you are not a trained insect physician. I would say more often than not you would be doing more harm than good.


Leave him alone Gripen its not like he's doing surgery. If you go back through the health issues threads where there has been an infection or rupture people sy to use honey.


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## gripen (Mar 16, 2013)

Malakyoma said:


> Leave him alone Gripen its not like he's doing surgery. If you go back through the health issues threads where there has been an infection or rupture people sy to use honey.


All I am saying is it is probably doing more harm than good. let the mantis deal with the wound by itself. It will most likely do a better job than you will.


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## Malakyoma (Mar 16, 2013)

gripen said:


> All I am saying is it is probably doing more harm than good. let the mantis deal with the wound by itself. It will most likely do a better job than you will.


Or it wont be able to do anything about it and die of infection, when just a little honey would have prevented that. You're allowed to help your bugs.


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## gripen (Mar 16, 2013)

Malakyoma said:


> Or it wont be able to do anything about it and die of infection, when just a little honey would have prevented that. You're allowed to help your bugs.


All I am saying is honey is probably detrimental unless eaten. I was not trying to make a complaint about Digger's willingness to help his mantids.


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## Malakyoma (Mar 16, 2013)

gripen said:


> All I am saying is honey is probably detrimental unless eaten. I was not trying to make a complaint about Digger's willingness to help his mantids.


Then go back through the Health Issues section about ruptures and infections. There are numerous suggestions to spread honey on it because its a natural disinfectant that holds back infection. spreading honey on a wound is the right thing to do.


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## Digger (Mar 16, 2013)

Gripen: Charlie Molan's article and research may help you understand the sensibility and sound clinical pathology of utilizing honey for wound healing. That goes for inverts as well.

http://www.worldwidewounds.com/2001/november/Molan/honey-as-topical-agent.html

Cheers,

Digger


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## patrickfraser (Mar 16, 2013)

gripen said:


> All I am saying is honey is probably detrimental unless eaten. I was not trying to make a complaint about Digger's willingness to help his mantids.


And you come to this with what evidence/proof? Or is it just you are right and others are wrong?


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## gripen (Mar 16, 2013)

Digger said:


> Gripen: Charlie Molan's article and research may help you understand the sensibility and sound clinical pathology of utilizing honey for wound healing. That goes for inverts as well.
> 
> http://www.worldwidewounds.com/2001/november/Molan/honey-as-topical-agent.html
> 
> ...


Thank you Digger that was very enlightening.


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## gripen (Mar 16, 2013)

patrickfraser said:


> And you come to this with what evidence/proof? Or is it just you are right and others are wrong?


That is generally how I operate.


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## angelofdeathzz (Mar 16, 2013)

Gripen means well, he deals in fact not maybes or hopeful wishes which sometimes can upset people, no harm no fowl.

But if I really thought infection was going to be an issue I would use hydrogen peroxide on a q-tip twice a day not honey, its gentle and safe plus if you see alot of foam you know there is an infection to begin with, not just a guess or "I wonder if".

But on the other hand I never get sick/infected mantis they're either alive and healthy, mismolted or dead of old age, well plus the few that get their head eaten off for the greater good, Haha...

Now don't hate! just my two cents, take it or leave it. :whistling:


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## Sticky (Mar 17, 2013)

I have a female who was slightly injured by a male. She now has black growing where he had gripped her too hard I am guessing.

Would peroxide really be ok to use on her? It would not kill her? I remember someone told us how when he did not know better because he was new to bugs that he put alcohol on his mantis. It died some days later.


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## glock34girl (Mar 17, 2013)

Peroxide? Okay, this is just me brainstorming because I am not sure how it works with bugs but it makes dogs vomit. Myself, it does sting, but I know I am a wuss. My horse, she would freak when we cleaned her wound with it. I'am not sure if it was because it stung, though she did try to kick out, or if it is just quite cold. In any rate, I'd be curious to know if anyone has actually put peroxide on a manits before and if so, were you concerned at all with them injesting it? I know they don't experience pain and such the way humans do... hmm. Just me asking friendly questions though. Ironically, we did wrap a horse injury with honey once. It was a nicely healed wound. At any rate, I am glad your mantis is just fat with stretchmarks, like me.


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## ScienceGirl (Mar 17, 2013)

If you do re-apply the honey, try not deluting it with water first. My reasons:


Honey is antibacterial, but diluting may cause it to be less powerful.
The bees concentrate it from nectar for a reason: honey collects extra moisture, and if it has above a certain percentage, it will ferment!


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## Reptiliatus (Mar 17, 2013)

I have experienced this. You may call me a fool but in the same way a man would apply a tiny cut of tissue to a shaving cut, do the same to the wounds. The will form a "scap". Just make sure to keep the mantis dry (don't mist it directly) to avoid infection. Judging by the photo, the specimen isn't an adult so when it is read to molt it will do so without a problem shedding away the tissue that was stuck to the old exo skeleton. Trust me, this works.

Do this if the wounds are still bleeding.


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## angelofdeathzz (Mar 17, 2013)

glock34girl said:


> Peroxide?


Peroxide will foam up extensively if there is a infection and not so much if there's none. If it makes you feel any better I use rubbing alcohol on any larger cuts I get just to make sure, I smashed my thumb with a hammer pretty bad one time and the skin peeled back like a grape skin, and yep I soaked it every day in alcohol, never did get infected but of coarse I don't suggest you do it for a mantis or yourself for that mater unless you have a very high pain threshold. :1eye:


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## agent A (Mar 18, 2013)

angelofdeathzz said:


> Peroxide will foam up extensively if there is a infection and not so much if there's none. If it makes you feel any better I use rubbing alcohol on any larger cuts I get just to make sure, I smashed my thumb with a hammer pretty bad one time and the skin peeled back like a grape skin, and yep I soaked it every day in alcohol, never did get infected but of coarse I don't suggest you do it for a mantis or yourself for that mater unless you have a very high pain threshold. :1eye:


And i might lose my breakfast now  

Anyways the reason H2O2 foams is its breaking down via the following reaction:

2H2O2-&gt;2H2O + O2


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## MantidBro (Mar 19, 2013)

Those markings are not wounds, they're the design of the species.

Here's a photo as proof: http://www.reptipic.de/data/media/10/mantiden042.jpg


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## glock34girl (Mar 27, 2013)

angelofdeathzz said:


> Peroxide will foam up extensively if there is a infection and not so much if there's none. If it makes you feel any better I use rubbing alcohol on any larger cuts I get just to make sure, I smashed my thumb with a hammer pretty bad one time and the skin peeled back like a grape skin, and yep I soaked it every day in alcohol, never did get infected but of coarse I don't suggest you do it for a mantis or yourself for that mater unless you have a very high pain threshold. :1eye:


Good gravy! That reminds me of a horse trainer I worked with that tricked her boyfriend into putting alcohol on his saddle sores!!!!!!! Lol


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## glock34girl (Mar 27, 2013)

angelofdeathzz said:


> Peroxide will foam up extensively if there is a infection and not so much if there's none. If it makes you feel any better I use rubbing alcohol on any larger cuts I get just to make sure, I smashed my thumb with a hammer pretty bad one time and the skin peeled back like a grape skin, and yep I soaked it every day in alcohol, never did get infected but of coarse I don't suggest you do it for a mantis or yourself for that mater unless you have a very high pain threshold. :1eye:


Good gravy! That reminds me of a horse trainer I worked with that tricked her boyfriend into putting alcohol on his saddle sores!!!!!!! Lol


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## glock34girl (Mar 27, 2013)

.


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## psyconiko (Apr 5, 2013)

Hey Digger,is the nymph dead or what?


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## psyconiko (Apr 14, 2013)

Dead?


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## Digger (Apr 14, 2013)

Nikkko,

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=29476&amp;hl=perseus


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## psyconiko (Apr 14, 2013)

Nikkko said:


> It does not look good.It is going to die I am afraid.


Sorry for that,but expected.


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