# female and male chinese cont...



## womantis (Sep 23, 2015)

here's the pic of the mating pair. the size differential (he is bigger) is creating an issue with contact.


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## MantidBro (Sep 23, 2015)

womantis said:


> here's the pic of the mating pair. the size differential (he is bigger) is creating an issue with contact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes i can see how that will be difficult for him! i guess we will see how it goes? good luck!


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## LAME (Sep 24, 2015)

Ha!.. Welll..... I don't know... I think it could go, you've gotta keep in mind the male's can curve their rears...

Maybe if she takes a chomp out of his face? Lol... I'm kidding.


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## CosbyArt (Sep 24, 2015)

LAME said:


> Ha!.. Welll..... I don't know... I think it could go, you've gotta keep in mind the male's can curve their rears...
> 
> Maybe if she takes a chomp out of his face? Lol... I'm kidding.


There is one solution. It seems male mantids love your hand (or your leg - your crazy past male mantids), perhaps take one for the team and then transfer the spermatophore with a skewer to the female.





Seriously though it will be tough for the male to bend and move that far - but it could happen.

Does make me curious if artificial insemination would be possible/worth while venture for mantids - as it is done in all sorts of vertebrates (fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals) in various settings (zoos, farms, hospitals, and such), so it might be possible with invertebrates too.


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## Rick (Sep 24, 2015)

Is the female exceptionally short or something? Every now and then I find one that is far below average in size. Either way I doubt it will be an issue.


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## womantis (Sep 24, 2015)

rick, this is the female that we were discussing on the previous thread. she is the average size of the females i have found here (maybe a tad shorter, but not significantly he is the largest tenodera i have seen, but per lame, a normal size male. maybe illinois vs california regional differences?

she was incredibly patient and compliant and continues to call. he just wasn't that flexible to make up for the differential in size after hours of trying. she is still calling.

anybody have a small male?


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## MantidBro (Sep 24, 2015)

womantis said:


> rick, this is the female that we were discussing on the previous thread. she is the average size of the females i have found here (maybe a tad shorter, but not significantly he is the largest tenodera i have seen, but per lame, a normal size male. maybe illinois vs california regional differences?
> 
> she was incredibly patient and compliant and continues to call. he just wasn't that flexible to make up for the differential in size after hours of trying. she is still calling.
> 
> anybody have a small male?


Sorry it didnt work out, good luck finding a smaller male


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## womantis (Sep 25, 2015)

lame, he is such a healthy and beautiful mantis. i am doing a classroom presentation for elementary kids on mantids and he will surely get all the "oohs and aahs" - i will make sure to tell them he traveled from illinois to visit us!


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## CosbyArt (Sep 25, 2015)

womantis said:


> rick, this is the female that we were discussing on the previous thread. she is the average size of the females i have found here (maybe a tad shorter, but not significantly he is the largest tenodera i have seen, but per lame, a normal size male. maybe illinois vs california regional differences?
> 
> she was incredibly patient and compliant and continues to call. he just wasn't that flexible to make up for the differential in size after hours of trying. she is still calling.
> 
> anybody have a small male?


Sorry to hear it didn't work.  I measured my last Chinese male (wild caught here in Indiana), but he comes in at 3.75" (head to abdomen) so that isn't going to help. You should place a ad in the classifieds listing your females length so someone know what to offer if they have one size wise for you.


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## Krissim Klaw (Sep 25, 2015)

womantis said:


> rick, this is the female that we were discussing on the previous thread. she is the average size of the females i have found here (maybe a tad shorter, but not significantly he is the largest tenodera i have seen, but per lame, a normal size male. maybe illinois vs california regional differences?


Are you sure there are is no way are you are confusing them with _Tenodera angustipennis_? The size would fit so well for that species. Has she produced any oothecae yet? I would be curious to see what it looks like.


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## LAME (Sep 25, 2015)

I doubt it's a angustipennis, I also have one female of that species. The female in the photos is to large compared to mine..

But an ooth would be a sure fire way to identify.

The male was wild caught. The area I spotted him is incredibly over grown. It gets hot and extremely humid here in central Illinois. Summer here is like.... Going outside on a hot summer day, wrapped up in a soggy wet blanket...

Also the area is over ran with grasshoppers,spiders,wasps, and many...MANY other creatures. So food is no issue over there.

Ive sent you a pm womantis.


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## Krissim Klaw (Sep 25, 2015)

LAME said:


> I doubt it's a angustipennis, I also have one female of that species. The female in the photos is to large compared to mine..
> 
> But an ooth would be a sure fire way to identify.


I have a girl too and the photo looks just like her. I am curious because Womantis mentions this seems to be the common size of them over there, and it makes me wonder if it is a different speices altogether or infact a rather stark regional difference in size, which I would find far more interesting. The Chinese mantids I'm used to seeing are on par with the male's size.


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## MantidBro (Sep 25, 2015)

LAME said:


> I doubt it's a angustipennis, I also have one female of that species. The female in the photos is to large compared to mine..
> 
> But an ooth would be a sure fire way to identify.
> 
> ...


I think its sinensis too, ive had quite a few females that were 3 inches. Over where i live, the larger ones seem to be more rare than the small ones.

And over where all the religiosa roam... some females are 2 inches while others are 3. Most of them are 2 inches but ive spotted a couple that were 3.

Question is, what does it depend on? I wanna say food?


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## womantis (Sep 26, 2015)

i am confident there are both the same species- tenodera sinensis - the markings, wing patterns, coloration and general morphology are all the same. they did try to mate, which i "guess" means they are same species, but not sure if that is true.

for size reference, she is definitely much bigger than the religiosa that i find or have received. lame's male is much bigger than any tenodera (male or female) i have found wild caught or raised from captive ooth. i feed mostly wild caught flies and a few crickets.

in stark contrast to lame's weather - it has been hot and desert dry here (we are in a drought as well) and you don't see a lot of bugs. there is lots of vegetation, tall grasses, trees. folks have stopped watering lawns - "brown is the new green" is campaign for saving water. if i leave a light on outside at night these days, you are lucky to see a moth or two.


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## womantis (Sep 26, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> Sorry to hear it didn't work.  I measured my last Chinese male (wild caught here in Indiana), but he comes in at 3.75" (head to abdomen) so that isn't going to help. You should place a ad in the classifieds listing your females length so someone know what to offer if they have one size wise for you.


here's the female for size reference. will try to get a pic of the larger male

http://imgur.com/RHzkj6S


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## CosbyArt (Sep 26, 2015)

womantis said:


> here's the female for size reference. will try to get a pic of the larger male
> 
> http://imgur.com/RHzkj6S


Wow she is a tiny one at about 2.75" long at best. I will keep my eyes out for her a mate, but I haven't seen any that small in the wild around here.


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## womantis (Sep 26, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> Sorry to hear it didn't work.  I measured my last Chinese male (wild caught here in Indiana), but he comes in at 3.75" (head to abdomen) so that isn't going to help. You should place a ad in the classifieds listing your females length so someone know what to offer if they have one size wise for you.


here's a pic to show their size differential http://imgur.com/a/7LtEX


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## womantis (Sep 26, 2015)

thanks cosbyart. yes she is about 2.75 and he's closer to 4 (ruler was slightly angled)... i think any male just a bit smaller would work.

she has been calling for weeks.

will female tenodera lay infertile oothecas if they haven't mated?


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## MantidBro (Sep 26, 2015)

womantis said:


> thanks cosbyart. yes she is about 2.75 and he's closer to 4 (ruler was slightly angled)... i think any male just a bit smaller would work.
> 
> she has been calling for weeks.
> 
> will female tenodera lay infertile oothecas if they haven't mated?


Yes they will lay infertile oothecae if they havent mated


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