# Look What I Found :)



## DETHCHEEZ (Jan 24, 2015)

Was pulling Spanish Moss out of my Plumeria tree before trimming it

&amp;

Look what I found attached to a clump of moss

By the shape I'm guessing Miomantis Caffra

Well shape &amp; the fact that I found one a few blocks from here last year

&amp;

The ooth she laid looked the same

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=32003&amp;hl=dethcheez&amp;page=2

{Last Pic}

It's starting to get dark now

But you can bet I'll be taking a closer look for more in the morning

Just thought I'd Share

PEACE...


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## DETHCHEEZ (Jan 24, 2015)

*PS*: Has anyone else in the SoCal area noticed any Mio mantids hanging around 

Have seen 2

​The one I caught &amp; another one the was hanging out on a fence

But couldn't to that one / It was in some ones yard

&amp;

Now the ooth

Just wondering if they're starting to get established around here


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## dmina (Jan 24, 2015)

Cool find... lucky! Guess you are going to keep it... keep us updated...


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## MantidBro (Jan 25, 2015)

awesome! hah its so tiny.


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## CosbyArt (Jan 25, 2015)

Sure is a tiny one - Nice find, a free ooth.  Looking at photos it seems you identified it correctly though.


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## Rick (Jan 25, 2015)

You are finding these in the wild?


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## Bill Myers (Jan 25, 2015)

Yup. Looks like a Miomantis caffra ootheca to me. Very interesting. It seems a colony has been established in your area...


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## agent A (Jan 25, 2015)

could also be a stagmomantis californica ooth

pardon my skepticism but it would not be good for the mantis hobby if word got out that ANOTHER nonnative mantis became naturalized in this country


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## Rick (Jan 25, 2015)

agent A said:


> could also be a stagmomantis californica ooth
> 
> pardon my skepticism but it would not be good for the mantis hobby if word got out that ANOTHER nonnative mantis became naturalized in this country


That is what I was thinking as well. Introduced species would be nothing but bad for the hobby. I am not familiar with the species and it looks very similar to Stagmomantis in pictures I found online.


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## agent A (Jan 25, 2015)

Rick said:


> That is what I was thinking as well. Introduced species would be nothing but bad for the hobby. I am not familiar with the species and it looks very similar to Stagmomantis in pictures I found online.


skeptic club swag  but seriously we should establish that its not stagmo cali before we say its mio caffra


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## DETHCHEEZ (Jan 25, 2015)

Let's see if I can answer a few questions at once

Yes to finding them locally

Found the ooth in my front yard

What I'm going by on ID is

I found a mantid on a trash by a bus stop about a year ago &amp; posted pics for an ID since I wasn't sure what it was &amp; it didn't look like any locals that I've seen

Also saw another live one but it was in some ones fenced in yard &amp; I couldn't get to it

Here's the link to that post / With pics

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=32003&amp;hl=dethcheez

There's a pic of one of the two ooths she laid before she died on the 2nd page

From the replies I went with it being M. Caffra

Not every one agreed but it was the most popular reply &amp; seemed to fit

&amp;

That's what I'm going by / The fact that the ooths looked the same

I sold one of the ooths on here / Can't remember to who now but I know they said it hatched

Something *Ate *the ooth I kept

It was weird the only thing that was left of it was just a thin layer where it was attached to the lid

So I didn't get any nymphs so no possibility of any escaping

My zip's 90810 if that helps pinpoint the area I'm finding them in

I'm Open On Suggestions / Possible Different ID

Will post a better ooth pic a little later

PEACE...


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## Rick (Jan 25, 2015)

DETHCHEEZ said:


> Let's see if I can answer a few questions at once
> 
> Yes to finding them locally
> 
> ...


I wasn't doubting your ID. I don't know anything about that species. I just find it concerning if it is a non-native and it is breeding. It reminds me of that other species a member found in FL that is non-native. You might consider reaching out to a local university and their entomology department. I see that I replied to your other post about these but forgot about it.


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## mantiseater (Jan 25, 2015)

Rick said:


> I wasn't doubting your ID. I don't know anything about that species. I just find it concerning if it is a non-native and it is breeding. It reminds me of that other species a member found in FL that is non-native. You might consider reaching out to a local university and their entomology department. I see that I replied to your other post about these but forgot about it.


What other species was it?


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## DETHCHEEZ (Jan 25, 2015)

Rick said:


> I wasn't doubting your ID. I don't know anything about that species. I just find it concerning if it is a non-native and it is breeding. It reminds me of that other species a member found in FL that is non-native. You might consider reaching out to a local university and their entomology department. I see that I replied to your other post about these but forgot about it.


Didn't think you were

Sorry if I sounded like I was

Didn't mean to

Just trying to provide as much info. as I can

'Cause honestly I'm not 100% sure

I was guessing / basing everything on the ID post from last year

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As cool as it is to find an ooth / Specially one from a non native Sp.

I know it raises several concerns

Why I was asking if any one else (locally) had noticed any hanging around lately

My only two guesses *If It Is a Mio* is

1. It was an escaped pet or some one did something stupid &amp; let theirs go in their garden

2. It / They came in on a shipment of ??? from NZ

Kind of thinking #2

I'm just a few miles inland from San Pedro / Port of LA

Which is a *"Major"* port from cargo ships

&amp;

There's a lot of container storage yards &amp; warehouses in my area

The female I found last year was at a bus stop in front of a warehouse / That whole street is nothing but warehouses

&amp;

There's a huge container / truck loading / distribution center right behind that street

&amp;

It was (ironically) right across the street from a customs inspection facility

So it does seem very possible that it / they may have came in on a shipment???

&amp;

Got established???

If that is the case

It's one of the last thing We need

*More Regulations*

Which I kind of say tongue in cheek

But if you live in CA you know what I mean

If you don't

It's [email protected] near impossible to get anything in CA as it is / At least legally / Compared to other state

We'll be lucky to able to own cats &amp; dogs in a few years

Like they're trying (have been for a while) to ban pit bulls

*The USDA would have a field day*


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## DETHCHEEZ (Jan 25, 2015)

Here's a better pic of the ooth

Hoping maybe it'll help with getting a proper ID

&amp;

Thanx For The Input

*Appreciate It*


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## SSimsswiSS (Jan 25, 2015)

M. Caffra or pinstripe mantis would be a little bigger than your thumb nail as adult. And ooths are about the of a candy dot, or paper dot/ punch out, like in a three ring binder. This is I. oratoria. and if you showed us a cured ooth, and not the fresh ones just laid it would clear up the confusion.

This species was introduced in the central valley, mostly around the Fresno area for the vinyards. And slowly has made its way down here to southern California over the last decade.


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## agent A (Jan 25, 2015)

wat is concerning is the fact that m. caffra r naturalized in new zealand, suggesting they r very adaptable


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## Bill Myers (Jan 26, 2015)

SSimsswiSS said:


> M. Caffra or pinstripe mantis would be a little bigger than your thumb nail as adult. And ooths are about the of a candy dot, or paper dot/ punch out, like in a three ring binder. This is I. oratoria. and if you showed us a cured ooth, and not the fresh ones just laid it would clear up the confusion.
> 
> This species was introduced in the central valley, mostly around the Fresno area for the vinyards. And slowly has made its way down here to southern California over the last decade.


Hmm... I'm not convinced it's_ Iris oratoria_.

If it is _Iris oratoria_, then why is there no red-orange spot on the ventral side on the fourth (second to last) abdominal segment? Here's the photo Dethcheez took of an adult last year:






Also, an adult _Miomantis caffra_ can range in size from 32 to 60 millimeters. I'd say that is well within the size range of the mantis shown in the photo.

Now, I'm not saying I'm 100 percent convinced it's a _Miomantis caffra_, (mainly because the coloring is darker than I would have expected), however, I'm also not convinced it's an _Iris oratoria_ either.

Just my two-cents worth.

Cheers


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## Rick (Jan 26, 2015)

I don't believe it is I. oratoria based on the lack of the abdominal spot and the wings that reach the end of the abdomen. I. oratoria also have a large dark spot on the flying wings with a partial red border. What do the flying wings look like on this one? I suppose individual variation could account for some of these if it is I. oratoria but I doubt it would account for all of them.


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## SSimsswiSS (Jan 26, 2015)

I have to apologize for my mix up on species. My last day off from work was Christmas day, and next day off will be the 31st, so 14 hour days have begun to affect mental sharpness. So throw out the *Miomantis Binotata *comments. I have worked with *Miomantis caffra *and they were much more of a verdi, or true green color in captivity. But could see how our desert envvironment could make them lighter in color.


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## DETHCHEEZ (Jan 28, 2015)

*It's The Mystery Mantis*​*LOL*​


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## dmina (Jan 28, 2015)

Yep... so keep it quiet... so no one get in trouble...


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## dmina (Jan 28, 2015)

Did you find any more ooths in the tree, in the daylight?


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## DETHCHEEZ (Jan 30, 2015)

dmina said:


> Did you find any more ooths in the tree, in the daylight?


No

Combed through the moss really good &amp; checked around the branches

But no luck finding any other ones


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## MantidLord (Jan 31, 2015)

I have no experience with that species...but I really hope this is just one big misidentification.


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## DETHCHEEZ (Feb 15, 2015)

MantidLord said:


> I have no experience with that species...but I really hope this is just one big misidentification.


??? Still Have No Clue On a 100% For Sure ID ???

~~~~~~~~~~~&lt;*&gt;~~~~~~~~~~~

Have the ooth set up the way it was / Attached to the moss

In a plastic container with some moist soil on bottom to help keep the humidity up

Not cooling or heating it

Just leaving it on a window sill

We've been in the 80s +

_****SoCal****_

So who knows maybe they'll be hatching soon

PEACE...


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## dmina (Feb 15, 2015)

Temps 80+ how sweet... today here it is -7.. with the wind chill -20...this is Michigan.. not Alaska or the Antarctic... Really, really bad cold snap here... kind of praying for 30's... Really scared for anything outside the next couple days...

Looking forward to your hatch... Keep us updated!


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## DETHCHEEZ (Feb 16, 2015)

dmina said:


> Temps 80+ how sweet... today here it is -7.. with the wind chill -20...this is Michigan.. not Alaska or the Antarctic... Really, really bad cold snap here... kind of praying for 30's... Really scared for anything outside the next couple days...
> 
> Looking forward to your hatch... Keep us updated!


-7 I don't even know what that is / LOL

My parents live about an hour &amp; a half from me in the high desert

&amp;

They'll get below freezing every now &amp; again at night

But coastal SoCal

We voted against Winter

So now we just skip it altogether &amp; have 3 4 month long seasons instead of 4 3 month long ones

LOL

I know I like to talk [email protected] on the East coast

But I honestly do feel for you guys

'Cause I Know It's Gotta Suck

Can't even imagine temps that cold let alone what it must be like to have to deal with / live in them

****SoCal &amp; Global Warming*** *

Will keep the post up dated &amp; will post pics of the nymphs when / if it hatches

Hopefully I'll get lucky &amp; get a positive ID by then

*Stay Warm*


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## dmina (Feb 17, 2015)

Blah..blah...blah...



Just kidding.. thanks for they sympathy...I really do love Michigan... Just wish I had enough money to spend the winters in warmth... maybe someday..



But for now we just have to make the best of it...


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## DETHCHEEZ (Feb 28, 2015)

*~IT'S STARTING TO HATCH~*​I see at least 4 small nymphs cruising around in the container

Will post some nymph pics a little later on

&amp;

Will keep thingz updated

_*Still Looking For Help On a Positive ID*_

PEACE...


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## dmina (Mar 1, 2015)

Looking forward to finding out what exactly you have there... and seeing the pics also


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## DETHCHEEZ (Mar 1, 2015)

Not the best pic
But they're small &amp; fast
&amp;
Don't want to loose any
LOL


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## mantiseater (Mar 1, 2015)

yay!


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## Orin (Mar 1, 2015)

There are new species introduced every day by agriculture and importation. Even if this is a new introduction, it's not a species that is common (possibly never seen) in the hobby.


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## dmina (Mar 1, 2015)

DETHCHEEZ said:


> Not the best pic
> But they're small &amp; fast
> &amp;
> Don't want to loose any
> ...






And so tiny... keep feeding it, so it grows faster..LOL


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## Jay (Mar 3, 2015)

Wow. Interesting leg stripes. Could be any mantis - really. Keep us updated with pics as time progresses.


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## DETHCHEEZ (Mar 6, 2015)

Hey

Well it was a Good hatch

Got a lot of nymphs

No exact count yet but a lot

Will probably wait till next weekend to start separating them

&amp;

Already know I have more than I'll be keeping to work with

So if any one's interested in some PM me

I'll have some available for sale or trade I about a week or so

Still no 100% for sure ID

Even thought it would be an odd find in this area

I'm kind of going with the Miomantis Caffra ID

???

Attached a few M. Caffra pics from Wiki / http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miomantis_caffra#Ootheca

The ooth shape / look seems to match

???


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## DETHCHEEZ (Mar 8, 2015)

Just a pic a took before adding more moss

They seem to like hanging out in the moss

Which is cooler then them just hanging upside down on the lid

PEACE...


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## dmina (Mar 9, 2015)

OMG... so cute.. Look at them in there...I love it when they all seem to be facing the same direction... LOL


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## sgtkeens (Mar 10, 2015)

DETHCHEEZ said:


> *PS*: Has anyone else in the SoCal area noticed any Mio mantids hanging around
> 
> Have seen 2
> 
> ...


Saw one at school today.


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## mantiseater (Mar 10, 2015)

sgtkeens said:


> Saw one at school today.


A miomantis?


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## DETHCHEEZ (Mar 10, 2015)

Offering a few for sale

Please See ~ http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34965


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## sgtkeens (Mar 10, 2015)

mantiseater said:


> A miomantis?


Yup. I'm guessing it was around L3.


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## Aryia (Mar 10, 2015)

It would be easy for M. caffra to establish itself in most States. They've become established in New Zealand already and are outcompeting native mantids there. M. caffra is very interesting since they're different than most mantis species. Their hatching is un-synchronized occasionally, so if there were a predator near the ootheca while they hatched, only a couple would get eaten at a time. Females can and do reproduce by parthenogenesis, I've witnessed it in my own collection. Their ootheca survive temperatures of low 40s at least, I haven't particularly tested this but an ootheca sent to me with very light insulation and no heatpack during the winter months made it through just fine.

I do hope that this wasn't the result of the hobby but the hobby will always be the first to take blame. So please make sure people know these are exotics and should be rehomed or euthanized instead of released into the wild. It is cruel, but it's also necessary for very hardy species such as these. With 99% of exotic species, release into the wild is a cruel and slow death sentence to begin with.


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## MantidLord (Mar 12, 2015)

So basically, M. caffra is like I. oratoria (which has already been established in a sizable part of the country. It has post-annum hatching as Aryia described and parthenogenesis as well as sexual reproduction. If I. oratoria can spread, I would imagine that M. caffra could as well.


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## DETHCHEEZ (Mar 12, 2015)

I think there's a lot of Sp. that could easily get established here given our weather conditions {at least in my general area}

LBC SoCal


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## DETHCHEEZ (Mar 13, 2015)

*~Find Waldo~*​​​
​


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## mantiseater (Mar 14, 2015)

Aye I see him it is l2 now?


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