# Taumantis sigiana, are these parthenogenic?



## fleurdejoo (Nov 16, 2012)

So Mime found an article online somewhere by some dude, who says his female was not bred and she laid an ooth which hatched.

I am hoping Mime will put a link to that article here.

So do any of you guys know about them?

Aaaand do any of you guys know who this dude is who wrote it ?

Here is a picture of little sista's ooth, she was not bred, although we tried!!


----------



## Mime454 (Nov 16, 2012)

http://thesmallermajority.com/2012/10/04/nine-months-and-counting/ here's that article. He's quite sure that they never were bred.

Your ooth looks jagged. Not sure why. The pics of the ooth on that article and my own ooth are smooth.


----------



## Mime454 (Nov 16, 2012)

Oh, and I love that picture. She looks so exhausted after finishing that huge thing!


----------



## twolfe (Nov 16, 2012)

Very cool Jude. You'll have to incubate your ooth to see what happens. 

Mime, I checked out Piotr's blog. I love his photo of mother and daughter Taumantis, and he has some nice images showing the different instars. His technique for photographing mantids using white plastic is also interesting, though the white background on some of the photos is very bright on my display. Thanks for sharing that link!


----------



## fleurdejoo (Nov 16, 2012)

Thank you Michael!

She is whipped fer sure but feasting all night.

I came home and she had crawled down onto the floor to a fly box and was sitting on top of them staring longingly!!!

Probably had a little mantis drool!


----------



## Mime454 (Nov 17, 2012)

Tammy Wolfe said:


> Very cool Jude. You'll have to incubate your ooth to see what happens.
> 
> Mime, I checked out Piotr's blog. I love his photo of mother and daughter Taumantis, and he has some nice images showing the different instars. His technique for photographing mantids using white plastic is also interesting, though the white background on some of the photos is very bright on my display. Thanks for sharing that link!


I've been checking out his other stuff since I made that post. His pictures are amazing! I wonder how he gets the money to go to all these places and take the photographs.


----------



## twolfe (Nov 17, 2012)

Mime454 said:


> I've been checking out his other stuff since I made that post. His pictures are amazing! I wonder how he gets the money to go to all these places and take the photographs.


Mike, I checked more of his blog and photos. Amazing. I signed up to follow his blog and get his new entries emailed to me. This guy is not only a talented photographer, but he's also a great writer...especially for someone who must speak and write English as a second language. I checked out his about page, and he has been published in a couple of magazines that still pay well for photos (not many of them do nowadays), and he's also represented by Minden Pictures stock agency. I have a subscription to _Ranger Rick_ magazine. I'll be watching for his photos from now on. Hey, did you see his photo of an engorged dog tick (aka wood tick)?Jude, you often make me smile when I read your posts. I'm glad you are here.


----------



## Mime454 (Nov 17, 2012)

Yes. I saw them. If I had photography skills, that would be a dream job. To travel around the world and take photos of wildlife and get paid handsomely.

Looking again, his Taumantis isn't the same species as Jude's and mine. Taumantis cephalotes I think.


----------



## Gill (Nov 17, 2012)

_Taumantis_ are very closely related to _Miomantis _and there is literrature that_ Miomantis _can reproduce by parthenogenisis.


----------



## Rick (Nov 17, 2012)

It is probably more common than we think. Obviously in this case there was a loss of fitness since all but one nymph died. I wouldn't be surprised if the ooth from the survivor does not hatch.


----------



## Orin (Nov 17, 2012)

That guy is from the US right? He said he buys crickets at Petco.


----------



## twolfe (Nov 17, 2012)

Orin said:


> That guy is from the US right? He said he buys crickets at Petco.


He lives in the US now. His bio on his about page says that he got a degree in Poland and then his PhD in entomology from the University of Connecticut. I copied the first part of his bio below from his page.****************************************************************************

Piotr (Peter) Naskrecki is an entomologist, photographer and author, based at the Museum of Comparative Zoology, Harvard University (Cambridge, MA, USA.). He received his M. Sc. degree in Zoology from the A. Mickiewicz University in Poznan, Poland;, and a Ph.D. in Entomology from the University of Connecticut, Storrs, CT. Between 2002 and 2009 Piotr served as Director of the Invertebrate Diversity Initiative at the Center for Applied Biodiversity Science at Conservation International, Washington, D.C. His research focuses on the evolution of katydids and related insects, and the theory and practice of nature conservation.

As a photographer, Piotr strives to promote appreciation and conservation of invertebrate animals – insects, arachnids, and their kin – by capturing both their beauty and roles as vital, often critically important members of the Earth’s ecosystems. He is one of the founding members of the International League of Conservation Photographers (ILCP).


----------



## fleurdejoo (Nov 17, 2012)

Tammy how good of you to do that!!! I am ashamed at my laziness!!!


----------



## agent A (Nov 18, 2012)

Connecticut!!! Interesting, I will hunt him down


----------



## Mime454 (Nov 18, 2012)

agent A said:


> Connecticut!!! Interesting, I will hunt him down


Make him take pictures of your mantids for you. Also, recruit him to the forum!


----------



## patrickfraser (Nov 18, 2012)

agent A said:


> Connecticut!!! Interesting, I will hunt him down


LOOKOUT! agent A is on the case. :detective: :lol:


----------



## fleurdejoo (Nov 18, 2012)

Go Agent A, go!


----------



## fleurdejoo (Nov 21, 2012)

Ok here is the ooth she laid. She's so thoughtful! Always thinking of me.






And here it is mounted. I'm really interested to see if anything happens.


----------



## angelofdeathzz (Nov 21, 2012)

Sweet, but girlfriend you have way to much aspen in there, cut it in half or more, they'll get trapped in the dence a mix, be more sparse in how close it's bunched, and leave a few inches up top for the hatchlings to drop down around the ooth.


----------



## fleurdejoo (Nov 22, 2012)

I'm on it!!

Thanks Nick! How is this?


----------



## angelofdeathzz (Nov 22, 2012)

Perfecto!!!

Now lets talk about to NO feeding/misting hole up top, I use a foam stopper that can be removed to add FF's and to mist through when the nymphs hatch, removing the lid entirely can be a big hassle when the babies run all over the place, or even a few deaths when you try to snap the lid back down and find a few got trapped on the lip of the deli.

At best only one nymph might get out this way, which is easy to deal with.


----------



## fleurdejoo (Nov 22, 2012)

Thanks Nick!

Done!


----------



## Assault Ferret (Nov 26, 2012)

Oh my goodness!!! I'm so excited! I thought my female Tau. looked gravid over the last week or so, but was thinking, "how is that possible, I know for a fact that she's never been mated?!?!" But lo and behold she was almost done laying an ooth when I left for class this morning! I'm definitely gonna have to see if I can get it mounted and incubate it!  

I'll put up a picture of the ooth, soon, if I can..

Thanks for all the info, too, everyone!


----------



## Mime454 (Nov 26, 2012)

Assault Ferret said:


> Oh my goodness!!! I'm so excited! I thought my female Tau. looked gravid over the last week or so, but was thinking, "how is that possible, I know for a fact that she's never been mated?!?!" But lo and behold she was almost done laying an ooth when I left for class this morning! I'm definitely gonna have to see if I can get it mounted and incubate it!
> 
> I'll put up a picture of the ooth, soon, if I can..
> 
> Thanks for all the info, too, everyone!


They will lay oothecae even if they are not fertilized. Some (most) species won't hatch if you don't mate them.


----------



## Paradoxica (Dec 15, 2012)

Well, i know this doesn't prove anything one way or another, but last night I cut open my two unfertilized ooths. Both had nothing but rotting eggs in them. So my female is not parthenogenic.


----------



## fleurdejoo (Dec 15, 2012)

Awww! Dern!


----------



## Glitch (Dec 19, 2012)

Taumantis are my bread and butter, love the lil critters. I'd say your ooth wont be fertile due to its shape. Had 6 mated females until recently and only some of them ended up fertile. The fertile ooths always looked more rounded and plump, the non fertile looked more..angular i guess?

Be awesome if I'm prooved wrong though, the nymps are so cute!

(and they are egg laying machines, Mimsy, my first female has pumped out about 8 ooths so far!)


----------



## Mime454 (Dec 19, 2012)

Glitch said:


> Taumantis are my bread and butter, love the lil critters. I'd say your ooth wont be fertile due to its shape. Had 6 mated females until recently and only some of them ended up fertile. The fertile ooths always looked more rounded and plump, the non fertile looked more..angular i guess?
> 
> Be awesome if I'm prooved wrong though, the nymps are so cute!
> 
> (and they are egg laying machines, Mimsy, my first female has pumped out about 8 ooths so far!)


My first one was plump, the second like Jude's. third in the middle. I don't think that that has a bearing on the fertility.


----------



## Glitch (Dec 19, 2012)

Mime454 said:


> My first one was plump, the second like Jude's. third in the middle. I don't think that that has a bearing on the fertility.


Aye, i'm keeping hold of all the ooths and trying to incubate them just incase, but so far, it's only the plump or rounded ones that've hatched. Got 4 on the go at the moment, so be interesting to see.


----------



## Paradoxica (Jan 19, 2013)

I just cut open 2 more unfertilized ooths: nothing.

However one of the two was only laid a couple days ago, so I thought why waste it...











yum


----------



## Mime454 (Jan 19, 2013)

They eat oothecae?


----------



## Mime454 (Jan 19, 2013)

Glitch said:


> Aye, i'm keeping hold of all the ooths and trying to incubate them just incase, but so far, it's only the plump or rounded ones that've hatched. Got 4 on the go at the moment, so be interesting to see.


I the second one that hatched was a jagged one, but it did take 2 more weeks to hatch than the plump one. Similar hatch rate for both.


----------



## Paradoxica (Jan 19, 2013)

Mime454 said:


> They eat oothecae?


Yeah, weird right?This girl's been eating it for the last 2 hours!


----------



## Mime454 (Jan 19, 2013)

Paradoxica said:


> Yeah, weird right?
> 
> This girl's been eating it for the last 2 hours!


I bet that there are a lot if calories in them. Enough to sustain those little mantids for weeks. Crazy.


----------

