# L1 Empusa pennata



## glock34girl (Jun 8, 2013)

Ladies and gentleman, I present to you the first hatch of Empusa Pennata. Looks to be six with one more coming out of the ooth. They are amazing and I can't wait until Henry's hatch so we can get some macros. They have their little spots like thier parents, they are a soft white just out of th ooth and faster than one can imagine. A tad large in my opinion. Size of perhaps an L2 H. majuscula? You can clearly see their cones and feathered antennae.


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## aNisip (Jun 8, 2013)

:clap: :clap: :clap: woot! Congratz on the hatch! It looks like the male did do his job afterall  are they communal or do you have to worry about the female snapping them up?


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## jrh3 (Jun 8, 2013)

wow they look like a violin mantis first instar. same color also. keep them all so they can become a cultured species.


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## brancsikia339 (Jun 8, 2013)

INCREDIBLE!!! Hatched already!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


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## agent A (Jun 8, 2013)

Well done :clap:


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## Bug Trader (Jun 8, 2013)

Really glad to see you pull this off, I knew you could do it and it go's to show all that paranoia you hit me with hour after hour, day after day was all just my headache to deal with not yours. Great success for the hobby now deny the hoard and be sure you have stock to raise and trade the others so we can mix up the bloodlines and continue the species.

Michael


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## glock34girl (Jun 8, 2013)

They do remind me of violins the mimicry is similar as well however the adults seem to have more color than the gongy. The female seemed to watch the hatch which I thought was odd. But she never showed aggression. Yens journal suggested that he kept them together with the parent without problem in regards to the faccicata but I didn't want to risk it since the hatch is so limited and I really want these to get established so you guys can have them they are VERY enjoyable!


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## twolfe (Jun 8, 2013)

Nice job. congratulations. that is amazing how fast that ooth hatched.


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## glock34girl (Jun 8, 2013)

Bug Trader said:


> Really glad to see you pull this off, I knew you could do it and it go's to show all that paranoia you hit me with hour after hour, day after day was all just my headache to deal with not yours. Great success for the hobby now deny the hoard and be sure you have stock to raise and trade the others so we can mix up the bloodlines and continue the species.
> 
> Michael


Hahahahahah! Your head musta been pounding!


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## gripen (Jun 8, 2013)

Congratz! Great job, really. Not many people can claim to have breed this species. How many ooths has she laid thus far?


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## glock34girl (Jun 8, 2013)

Tammy Wolfe said:


> Nice job. congratulations. that is amazing how fast that ooth hatched.


They hatched literally within hours of the exact two week mark! How insane!


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## brancsikia339 (Jun 8, 2013)

glock34girl said:


> They hatched literally within hours of the exact two week mark! How insane!


That's crazy! Such fast breeders


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## Bug Trader (Jun 8, 2013)

These will easily stay as wanted as Gongy and Idolos are. They are beautifull displays as adult. They will make for a new challenge for most we just have to get them to the next Generation now.


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## Mime454 (Jun 8, 2013)

I wonder if they'll be all female and this might be a parthenogenetic species.


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## jrh3 (Jun 8, 2013)

Mime454 said:


> I wonder if they'll be all female and this might be a parthenogenetic species.


why? they have been bred by uk members.


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## Mime454 (Jun 8, 2013)

jrh3 said:


> why? they have been bred by uk members.


She never witnessed the male connect, so it's a possibility.


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## Bug Trader (Jun 8, 2013)

They also connect fast, as in everyone who witnessed it said it was a very fast connection so I wouldn't go parthenogenetic talk yet as I know for a fact her male tried for hrs. Its a big success don't cast doubt until we have proof otherwise.


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## jrh3 (Jun 8, 2013)

Bug Trader said:


> They also connect fast, as in everyone who witnessed it said it was a very fast connection so I wouldn't go parthenogenetic talk yet as I know for a fact her male tried for hrs. Its a big success don't cast doubt until we have proof otherwise.


agreed i think its funny when people talk oohh maybe parthogenic... good luck with yall getting a culture going.


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## Danny. (Jun 8, 2013)

Congrats GG. Now take more pics!


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## glock34girl (Jun 8, 2013)

gripen said:


> Congratz! Great job, really. Not many people can claim to have breed this species. How many ooths has she laid thus far?


Hey Gripen-

She has laid five. I think that will be it. She seems to be at the end of her span. But you never know I suppose.


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## Bug Trader (Jun 8, 2013)

I expect them to have maybe a 5-6 week adult life,


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## glock34girl (Jun 8, 2013)

Mime454 said:


> I wonder if they'll be all female and this might be a parthenogenetic species.


I don't think they are. I may not have witnessed the actual connection but he stayed with her through the night several times and there were clear attempts that I did witness. Also, if that were the case as you suggests then your female should have produced an ooth already. Has she? If not, I think we can safely assume this species is not as you suggest. Also, how can one explain the clear sexual differences between the two if they are to be one sex? Your suggestion seems implausible to me but I have been wrong before.

Also, we are up to 13 now.


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## glock34girl (Jun 8, 2013)

Bug Trader said:


> I expect them to have maybe a 5-6 week adult life,


Wow, super short. Perhaps a tad longer though? Fasciata had at least 6-8 week on the male according to Yen but maybe this species is t comparable to fassicata in all areas, huh?


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## Bug Trader (Jun 8, 2013)

Maybe, but based on these pennata, and experience they matured at a fast pase, bred at an extremely young adult age and lay multiple ooths with a fast incubation time. Makes sense they are a short lived species. Didn't Yen breed his at 5-6 weeks mature as well?


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## glock34girl (Jun 8, 2013)

Bug Trader said:


> Maybe, but based on these pennata, and experience they matured at a fast pase, bred at an extremely young adult age and lay multiple ooths with a fast incubation time. Makes sense they are a short lived species. Didn't Yen breed his at 5-6 weeks mature as well?


I'd have to look at his journal again but I think he had a six week old male that he bred then it died shortly after. Ill look for it and Link it


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## Bug Trader (Jun 8, 2013)

All Im saying is your female is already showing a loss in color and she has stopped laying, maybe a break but we don't know being no ones been successful with them here. Its just my guess but I doubt they live 6-8 weeks mature.


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## glock34girl (Jun 8, 2013)

Bug Trader said:


> All Im saying is your female is already showing a loss in color and she has stopped laying, maybe a break but we don't know being no ones been successful with them here. Its just my guess but I doubt they live 6-8 weeks mature.


I do agree. I think she is in her way out. We are at almost 4 weeks as an adult so you are prob right.


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## Danny. (Jun 8, 2013)

GG- How many times did you pair them up?


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## Precarious (Jun 8, 2013)

Woohoo! See, I told you to hold off and wait to see if they hatch. It was worth the wait! Congrats!

Now I'm excited to catch a hatch. They look adorable like gongy nymphs. I can't wait.


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## glock34girl (Jun 8, 2013)

Danny. said:


> GG- How many times did you pair them up?


Hey Danny:

I paired them twice then after never observing aggression from the feme I left him in with her in a 12x12 with lots of hides but mostly they hung around right next to one another. Was pretty weird really. Lol


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## thalassarche (Jun 8, 2013)

Wow, they look incredible! I'd love to have this species once they become more [email protected]


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## glock34girl (Jun 8, 2013)

Precarious said:


> Woohoo! See, I told you to hold off and wait to see if they hatch. It was worth the wait! Congrats!
> 
> Now I'm excited to catch a hatch. They look adorable like gongy nymphs. I can't wait.


Yes! They are adorable and psycho! Quite the little kamakazis. I think they will slow up a bit in the next few days but man they are like toddlers jacked up on MT. Dew. Also, Henry- they hatched at exactly two weeks. Just FYI!


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## glock34girl (Jun 8, 2013)

thalassarche said:


> Wow, they look incredible! I'd love to have this species once they become more [email protected]


They really are neat to watch. They are a shy species but when they don't think you are watching they waggle their butts.... But then again maybe thy kno Iam watching and they are mooning me lol


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## Danny. (Jun 9, 2013)

glock34girl said:


> Hey Danny:
> 
> I paired them twice then after never observing aggression from the feme I left him in with her in a 12x12 with lots of hides but mostly they hung around right next to one another. Was pretty weird really. Lol


No aggression from my female either, just a threat pose is enough to scare the out of him. Lol


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## OctoberRainne (Jun 9, 2013)

Awesome,these are on my must have list,glad to see they are being bred and hatched lately


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## glock34girl (Jun 9, 2013)

Danny. said:


> No aggression from my female either, just a threat pose is enough to scare the ###### out of him. Lol


Hahahahaha! They are a bit shy aren't they? Lol maybe cut the lights out? I found he never attempted much of anything with lights on or me watching. Lol


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## bobericc (Jun 9, 2013)

Congrats on your success with empusa, very crazy how fast they lay and hatch its just too bad its limited, take care of the little ones.


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## Danny. (Jun 9, 2013)

Have you tried feeding them yet?


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## glock34girl (Jun 9, 2013)

Yes, a few hours ago. It was quite funny. Only one seemed to know what to do with they Hydei. Nomnimnimnomnom then the others were looking at the nymph like.... Well, I want one! And he took off screaming obscenities at them and then suddenly everyone was stalking hydei. They all shake their bom-boms when they eat. It's quite funny.


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## agent A (Jun 10, 2013)

bobericc said:


> Congrats on your success with empusa, very crazy how fast they lay and hatch its just too bad its limited, take care of the little ones.


i read their mortality is zero so it's ok to only have a few babies


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## jrh3 (Jun 10, 2013)

i think the real test is when you have to cool them. did you ever get a wine cooler.? i can show pics of mine if needed. it would work perfect.


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## Bug Trader (Jun 10, 2013)

Wine cooler is a good idea, I have been talking to Tony about this because at the age they are supposed to Diapause there is not way it will be cool enough in the south.

I also want to remind everyone about the ootheca up for sale, These guys only have a 2 week incubation at room temp. SO if you buy you best confirm they are fresh or you will have a hatched ooth and lots of dead. I promised an ooth to a friend in Taiwan, we basicly have to have it shipped day after it laid to guarantee safe arrival.


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## aNisip (Jun 10, 2013)

What instar are they supposed to be diapaused? Subadult?


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## glock34girl (Jun 10, 2013)

jrh3 said:


> i think the real test is when you have to cool them. did you ever get a wine cooler.? i can show pics of mine if needed. it would work perfect.


You know, all heck broke loose last time we mentioned the wine cooler but I have been in a few reptile stores that use them. What's the temp range on those,


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## glock34girl (Jun 10, 2013)

Bug Trader said:


> Wine cooler is a good idea, I have been talking to Tony about this because at the age they are supposed to Diapause there is not way it will be cool enough in the south.
> 
> I also want to remind everyone about the ootheca up for sale, These guys only have a 2 week incubation at room temp. SO if you buy you best confirm they are fresh or you will have a hatched ooth and lots of dead. I promised an ooth to a friend in Taiwan, we basicly have to have it shipped day after it laid to guarantee safe arrival.


Or here either. Iol


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## Danny. (Jun 10, 2013)

GG: What about just keeping them outdoors?


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## agent A (Jun 10, 2013)

what about the microclimates in your own homes? my closet and attic and a few other spots in my house get cool starting in November but they never drop below freezing


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## Bug Trader (Jun 10, 2013)

You guys realize theses will be at L4L5 well before fall right? It will still be in the 70's and 80's in November where most of us are with Empusa.


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## Tony C (Jun 10, 2013)

Danny. said:


> GG: What about just keeping them outdoors?


That is my plan, I intend to keep them in my greenhouse. I suspect we may see a slower growth rate in the younger instars, followed by a major increase after diapause. I have been to the Mediterranean area in the fall and it is still warm, much like the southeastern US. I am not sure how they would be able to diapause in nature if they maintain the same growth rate that we have seen so far, they would simply grow up and burn out before the weather had a chance to cool off.


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## jrh3 (Jun 11, 2013)

glock34girl said:


> You know, all heck broke loose last time we mentioned the wine cooler but I have been in a few reptile stores that use them. What's the temp range on those,


i think mine goes from 45 to 65, i will check today and see. mine has led lights in it and a clear glass door. i think it was 60 bucks at target.


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## glock34girl (Jun 12, 2013)

I have seen some at Targhetto for decent prices that will get to 50. We can be December and in the 60s and we don't have basements and such here. Attic is like a million and two degrees so for my locale I am just not entirely sure yet but research never killed anyone. Lol


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## glock34girl (Jun 15, 2013)

L2s today. Just writing for my own reference but feel free to add comments if you'd like.


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## Paradoxica (Jun 15, 2013)

So there's no L1 mortality?


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## glock34girl (Jun 15, 2013)

Paradoxica said:


> So there's no L1 mortality?


Not that I have observed. The count is still the same but they haven't all gone through their molts yet. Also, they seem to like to molt from the sides. Jerks lol


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## agent A (Jun 18, 2013)

i read the mortality is almost zero with these


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## glock34girl (Jun 18, 2013)

All present and accounted for except one that jumped off my hand while transferring him. He is... MIA but so far no cannabalism or deaths.


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