# Almost tae longest playa in da traencaes...



## Kruszakus (Feb 9, 2010)

Here are some lousy pics of my Heterochaeta pre-sub female. She is about 9.5-10 cm long.

















This way to the grocery store...






Once it's sunny again, I'm gonna try and take more - my camera does not work well with dim light.


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## Ricky Ortiz (Feb 9, 2010)

Wow thats amazing looks just like a stick I'm really starting to like mantids more and more


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## ismart (Feb 9, 2010)

Wow!  How much bigger do the females get as adult?


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## Kruszakus (Feb 9, 2010)

I have no idea. From what vague imput I've gathered so far, I'd say about 13 cm long. They aren't that hard to keep eighter.


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## ismart (Feb 9, 2010)

Impressive!  Thats a long mantid!  Do you have any males?


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## Kruszakus (Feb 9, 2010)

ismart said:


> Impressive!  Thats a long mantid!  Do you have any males?


I've got at least 6 pairs of those, 22 nymphs in total. It's kinda difficult to sex them in their enclosure, they blend very well with their surroundings. They have little appendages on the upper side of their abdomen, which they appear to be able to "inflate", and which look like little buds on a twig. Quite an amazing type of camo, I haven't seen anything like it before.


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## ismart (Feb 9, 2010)

That is different. Maybe the inflatable buds will inflate into leaves as adult. :lol: Are all 22 in the same enclosure?


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## Katnapper (Feb 9, 2010)

"WOW" is definitely the first thing that comes to mind upon seeing these pics, Krusz! Great stick camouflage! Sending you the best of luck with raising and breeding them. I can think of one person, at least, who would like to try them someday (me!).  :lol:


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## hibiscusmile (Feb 9, 2010)

Those are so neat looking, Almost like some of the hair clips for sale here, wonder if it would hold back me locks! haha,


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## Rick (Feb 9, 2010)

Very cool mantis.


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## Kruszakus (Feb 9, 2010)

I've been keeping them together since L1, they seem to tolerate each other pretty well. They spend most of their time sitting in the same spot, with their arms spread. Sometimes, they kinda stumble around and bump into each other, but nothing ever happens then - no boxing, no fighting, no nothing.

I hope I can breed them, because I'm kinda fed up with Empusidse due to all the stress and expenses involved, and I'd like to switch to something a little more pleasant. So far, Heterochaeta have never mismolted or died on me - they don't need high temperatures, special types of sut-up, nor do they need vast amounts of flies. You just keep them at 24-28C, 60-70% humidity, and they do fine just fine


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## sufistic (Feb 9, 2010)

That's a beautiful mantis right there. Kinda reminds me of Toxos but they look much more sturdier and not as fragile.


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## tier (Feb 9, 2010)

Hi mate,

very nice! I like the forelegs a lot.

The female adults of _H. occidentalis_ IGM No. 173 which are in stock in Germany right now reach sizes of 14cm (with Cerci) I was told.

regards


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## Opivy (Feb 9, 2010)

those are awesome! Looks like they have horns =0


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## Kruszakus (Feb 9, 2010)

Opivy said:


> those are awesome! Looks like they have horns =0


This might be actually kinda accurate, I don't think that the spiky ends of their eyes are nothing else but spikes. Just look at this picture of Heterochaeta orientalis:






Pic taken from: http://ttwebbase.dyndns.org/mantid/view/167.html

I thought, that I had H orientalis, but now I don't know - the colors don't seem to match with mine. Maybe Christian will help, once mine are adult.


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## sufistic (Feb 9, 2010)

From what I know, there are 11 known _Heterochaeta_ species. Identifying the exact one based on photos could prove difficult.


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## tier (Feb 9, 2010)

_H. orientalis_ or _H. occidentalis_ ? ;-)

edit: I do not want to ID them, but maybe you have the same we have here in Germany which is _H. occidentalis_. The colours fit better. The pictures of _H. orientalis_ from Sören you linked are some years old. So maybe you mixed up the names, but you have the same we have in Germany RIGHT NOW:_H. occidentalis_. The size would also fit, as your subadult is 10cm and an adult of _H. occidentalis_ is 14cm, which would fit.

regards


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## Kruszakus (Feb 9, 2010)

I would not be surprised if it were correct. I don't remember which three strains of Heterochaeta inhabit Tansania, but I remember H. orientalis being one of them. I just assumed, that mine could be H. orientalis, but it seems like it's something different. Too bad I ain't got any pics od H. occidentalis to compare with mine.


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## Christian (Feb 9, 2010)

Kruszakus has another species. I cannot confirm yet that it is _H. orientalis_, but it is not _H. occidentalis_; the color is not important in this case. Mines are both grey and brown. _H. occidentalis_ doesn't occur in Tansania either.

@Sufistic: _Heterochaeta_ is somewhat related to the Toxoderids; morphological and genetical data are still somewhat contradictory though.


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## tier (Feb 9, 2010)

I do not remember, too. But I can have a look at the miracle-book: Ehrmann 2002 "MANTODEA Gottesanbeterinnen der Welt" will help us again:

It says, just like surfistic already pointed out, that out of the eleven "valid" species (normally, Christian knows much better what is still valid and what is questionable nowadays than what was known back in 2002), the species originated in Tanzania are:

_H. orinetalis_

H. reticulata

H. zavattarii

In contrast,_ H. occidentalis_ is located in Botswana, Kenia, Namibia and the "Cape-?rovince" while I am not sure these names of the states are correct "or still valid"  I will check where IGM No 173 is from, but it seems it cannot be from Tanzania.

Also, I am pretty sure that if some scientists would investigate the surrounding neighbour-contries of the countries known as a habitat for a special _Heterochaeta_ species, some new locality records would maybe be established very soon.

edit: Christian was quicker, I was too lazy writing this post. So now it is off-topic.

regards


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## Christian (Feb 9, 2010)

The locality "Kenya" for _H. occidentalis_ is probably erroneous. This species occurs only in SW-Africa. There were no taxonomic changes since 2002. In fact, most of the info in Ehrmann originates from an exhaustive 1977 paper by Roy. No other species was described since then, which is not really a surprise considering the quality of the paper and the size and the vast distribution of the mantids of this genus. Some species are still known by one sex only though.


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## tier (Feb 9, 2010)

Great! 5 Mins past 12AM here and already learned something 

regards


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## sufistic (Feb 10, 2010)

Christian said:


> @Sufistic: _Heterochaeta_ is somewhat related to the Toxoderids; morphological and genetical data are still somewhat contradictory though.


I see, very interesting. They do look very similar especially with regards to the head and raptorial legs.


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## brancsikia (Feb 10, 2010)

Hi,

I compiled the numbers for these species for the IGM list: IGM numbers

There are two stocks of _Heterochaeta_ in the list:

*IGM 173 from Namibia* identified as _Heterochaeta occidentalis_ (the one Christian and others have) and

*IGM 180 from Tanzania* at the moment just identified as _Heterochaeta_ sp. (the one Kruszakus and others have).

The *use of the numbers might be helpful and could prevent from mixing the two stocks*... especially if one is occidentalis and the other will be identified as orientalis...

Often the scientific names are not read and spelled accurately and a mixing is predicable.


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## Pelle (Feb 10, 2010)

Cool pics, they look funny


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## revmdn (Feb 10, 2010)

Nice.


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## Kruszakus (Feb 10, 2010)

Then how do we mark this stock? I would not want people to mix up those two completely different strains of Heterochaeta. Who knows what would have happened - I would not want to see a new species burst onto the scene, and disappear just as fast, because of the inbreeding type thing.


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## yen_saw (Feb 11, 2010)

Great looking mantis Krus. Best of luck in breeding these... sorry to hear you are giving up on Empusa.


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## Kruszakus (Feb 11, 2010)

yen_saw said:


> sorry to hear you are giving up on Empusa.


It's just too annoying, when you provide all the right conditions, and all you see is a bunch of sexually shy males, and hard to get females. I'm done with Empusidae, screw that.


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## Kruszakus (Feb 27, 2010)

Wanted to add some pics of a sub-adult Heterochaeta, but this new, improved software made it so "easy", that I gave up. Not my loss.


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## sbugir (Feb 27, 2010)

@ Krusz, it's the same way to do it as before...?


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## Kruszakus (Jun 23, 2010)

lemmiwinks said:


> @ Krusz, it's the same way to do it as before...?


I have adult Heterochaeta now - almost 6 inches long, huge beasts... but to insert the pictures from the site I've been using to upload my photos is a no-can-do. I dunno what the heck is going on. Apparently, that site is being blocked by some filter.

Gimme a clue what do do, 'cause I ain't got none.


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