# Spring...M. religiosa



## sbugir (Apr 12, 2010)

Well, it's spring, and that means babies of all sorts.

Yesterday my M. religiosa ooth began to hatch in just 3 weeks after incubation  . I was hoping to release them in the next month when I thought they would hatch... Nonetheless they are very cute, and are by far the most awesome looking nymph I have ever seen. The heads are crazy, they literally look like the typical cartoon alien-types.

Anyway, I've heard that these are very difficult to take care of due to them being a rather weak species. So, I figured I would try to start a blog/breeding diary thingy to see what makes these guys seem so difficult.

Half of these mantids will go back to where I found them, and the other half will be mine to raise and keep up with this log.

To begin with an update I figured I would show some pics with some babies on the ooth... (these are poor pictures, sorry).

















The hatching began on April 11th, approximately only 20 nymphs hatched.

April 12th hatched about 50... and only half of the ootheca is hatched with another ready to go.

Diapause began on November 1st, and they were taken out March 21st to begin incubation.


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## MantidLord (Apr 12, 2010)

Awe they look so cute. Congratulations and please keep a breeding blog. I have mine outside for incubation and am waiting for them to hatch. I'll try to contribute to give information on the species as well. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## sbugir (Apr 12, 2010)

MantidLord said:


> Awe they look so cute. Congratulations and please keep a breeding blog. I have mine outside for incubation and am waiting for them to hatch. I'll try to contribute to give information on the species as well. Good luck and keep us posted.


Thanks man! I'd definitely love to hear your contributions and experiences with this species.


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 12, 2010)

Heres mine, I have hatched about 3 of these this year, currently three are alive at 4th Instar. actually two, one was dinner.


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## plant (Apr 12, 2010)

Good luck on them!

They aren't hard to take care of, I have some L3's, if you can get them past their first molt they are pretty hardy mantids. Mine turn out yellow after their first shed  

At L1 they can take on D. Hydeis, let us know if you need any info on raising this species.


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## sbugir (Apr 12, 2010)

plant said:


> Good luck on them!
> 
> They aren't hard to take care of, I have some L3's, if you can get them past their first molt they are pretty hardy mantids. Mine turn out yellow after their first shed
> 
> At L1 they can take on D. Hydeis, let us know if you need any info on raising this species.


Thanks, but it's not so much the care I'm after (I have a few more difficult species  ). I just want to discover what makes them "so" difficult for other people... Perhaps in your experience there is not much difficulty. It'd be pretty neat to maybe compare humidity levels and temperature and maybe find out what makes them "tick".


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## MantidLord (Apr 12, 2010)

Good idea, especially considering they're so wide spread. I wonder why they're considered hard by some, yet beginners by others. What were the conditions (in terms of temp and humidity) that you incubated them in? I'm trying for the "natural" approach, so I imagine they'll hatch much later. Another factor is how your nymphs will behave having hatched "earlier". Again, I'll do some observations and comparisons of my own and let you know.


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## sbugir (Apr 12, 2010)

The conditions kept for diapause was an average of 45 degrees Fahrenheit. They were then moved to a 70+ degree room (mine) where they hatched in three weeks. The ambient humidity is 40% which does surprise me as there were no stragglers. It intrigues me to see how many nymphs can come out of one ooth without one straggler, however this could be proven wrong in the next few days as the ooth will most likely continue to hatch.

I have noticed that the fresh exoskeleton is not the typical white/yellow color seen in most mantids. It seems to be pale orange, very cool.

Tomorrow will be the feeding day, as well as a movement to a new enclosure where hopefully stress levels will be reduced to ensure fewest causalities.


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## MantidLord (Apr 12, 2010)

Thanks for the info. Mine were laid in October. Diapaused outside in with an average winter temperature of 52-55 Fahrenheit. It started to heat up about two weeks ago up to the 80s. And it's been fluctuating between high 60s and low 80s. I've misted a couple of times, but haven't really monitored humidity. Let me know what you think of these conditions. I might have to start spraying more though or bring them inside where it's a stable room temp.

I think separating them is a good idea. I think one reason why nymphs die in bulk is do to stress from constantly being next to each other. When mine hatch, I want to separate one ooth and keep the others together to see a difference.


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## plant (Apr 12, 2010)

None of my 3 oothecas went through a diapause but they all hatched out normally. I keep them at 77 degrees and mist them when the substrate is dry, which seems fine for them


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## MantidLord (Apr 12, 2010)

Yeah, I've moved one of my ooths inside with the other outside so it can hatch out there. Let's see what happens.


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## sbugir (Apr 13, 2010)

plant said:


> None of my 3 oothecas went through a diapause but they all hatched out normally. I keep them at 77 degrees and mist them when the substrate is dry, which seems fine for them


Very interesting, they hatched w/o a diapause? I will definitely try that the next time I get an ooth. Humph, I always thought they needed a diapause, guess not  .


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## MantidLord (Apr 13, 2010)

I could've sworn that there was a thread a while back talking about this species and diapause. It was a couple pages long too.


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## sbugir (Apr 14, 2010)

UPDATE

4/13

Second ooth began to hatch... only 4 nymphs as of today came out.

The first ooth hatched another 20 nymphs, there is about another one-third of the ooth to go. I finally saw my first straggler today  .

I am already seeing causalities most likely due to stress due to the proximity of the mantids, and I totally neglected them today... I will do my best to move them into a far larger container tomorrow to see how things progress. I am impressed how both ooths hatched at a relatively close timing for some reason. I don't know why, but I just am, perhaps it's silly...? Thus said about tomorrow, tomorrow will most likely begin the cannibalistic nature of mantids as it has been about three days. Time will only tell.


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## sbugir (Apr 14, 2010)

UPDATE 4/14

Second ooth hatched approximately 30 nymphs at 4:44 PM... I found it rather unusual hatching this late in the day.

First ooth had no signs of activity today. It still has 1/3rd of a zipper untouched... Who knows if there are eggs there?

Approximately 30 nymphs died most likely due to stress, I can begin to see why it is slightly difficult to raise these to adult, nonetheless I still have plenty


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## MantidLord (Apr 15, 2010)

Great to hear that they're hatching, and sorry about the early losses. I bet (like someone else said) once they molt a little bit, they'll be easier. How big is the container that you were keeping them in together? I'd imagine stress is the factor, besides just the weak ones.


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## sbugir (Apr 15, 2010)

They are separated into 8 32 oz containers. I have noticed this species does not climb plastic well at such a low instar... Aspen fiber or a climbing surface is definitely needed. When on their backs they flail ridiculously, far more dramatic than any other mantis I have seen.


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## plant (Apr 16, 2010)

I've noticed the same with my nymphs, they fall on their backs and thrash around crazily. seems to wear off after a few days though.


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## MantidLord (Apr 16, 2010)

Interesting, man I can't wait for mine to hatch.


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## sbugir (Apr 16, 2010)

Yeah I had about 300 total hatched, now we're down to 100... and the numbers continue to thin. It's very interesting to see how nature plays its role.


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## plant (Apr 17, 2010)

what I did was randomly choose out the nymphs I'm going keep (6) and put each one in their own little container with a few fruit flies, then I released the rest outside since obviously I can't raise all of them.

If you leave them all in one container none will survive for long, all the ones that I put in their own cup are still doing well and are at L3  

Btw I've noticed that this species can be fairly canabalistic as I've witnessed it several times


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## MantidLord (Apr 17, 2010)

But he did separate them. So he should be able to raise a fairly large number. It is interesting how nature takes its toll though. I think a lot of those that died for no reason would've gotten eaten by some other predator.


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## MantidLord (Apr 21, 2010)

Any updates on them?


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## sbugir (Apr 21, 2010)

Yep, I'm left w/ 25...

They have begun to molt to L2. They seem very weak as nymphs which most likely accounts for the high causalities. Nonetheless the remainder I do have left seem to be going strong. I did release approximately 50 into my backyard and where they were collected. I have yet to see one I have released.The ooths seem done, we'll see how it goes though.


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## MantidLord (Apr 24, 2010)

Great to hear. I guess 25 is still a large number for breeding them. Are you able to feed them something other than fruit flies yet? And have you noticed any cannibalism?


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## sbugir (Apr 24, 2010)

Cannibalism doesn't really seem to be an issue. They just drop dead like flies which I find is interesting.

They are still on FFs


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## sbugir (Apr 24, 2010)

Wow, mold is very susceptible to killing these fellas. This is ridiculous.

The molt to second instar is pretty cool. They start to show different colors. Very cool.


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## sbugir (Apr 26, 2010)

UPDATE:

This species is bloody strage. I tested different humidity levels amongst each mantid, and I have concluded that humidity above 60% seems almost lethal for these fellas.

I'm only left with 13, however I will check outside to see if I can find a few I let free. If not, I'll have to wait til September to continue these diary again. Time will tell.


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## Ntsees (Apr 27, 2010)

lemmiwinks said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> This species is bloody strage. I tested different humidity levels amongst each mantid, and I have concluded that humidity above 60% seems almost lethal for these fellas.
> 
> I'm only left with 13, however I will check outside to see if I can find a few I let free. If not, I'll have to wait til September to continue these diary again. Time will tell.


In a matter of about 2 weeks, you're down to 13? You're reminding me of my past experience with these mantids. Nonetheless, it's good that you are keeping track of what's happening. Hopefully you can find what the deal is with this species. The next time I deal with this species, I'm going to keep them dry, and at the same time, keep them hydrated.


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## sbugir (Apr 30, 2010)

UPDATE:

Molting to third instar  . Starting to outgrow the 12oz containers.

I have kept the humidity low, and I have only lost 1, I'm down to 12.

They still prefer D. mels over D. hydei for some reason, easier to catch?


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## MantidLord (Apr 30, 2010)

Wow, down to twelve. Ntsees, do you have this species as well? Unfortunately, none I mine have hatched yet. Does anyone know have any input on the chances of mine hatching? Lemminweeks, did you test to see how they fair in low humidity?


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## sbugir (Apr 30, 2010)

MantidLord said:


> Wow, down to twelve. Ntsees, do you have this species as well? Unfortunately, none I mine have hatched yet. Does anyone know have any input on the chances of mine hatching? Lemminweeks, did you test to see how they fair in low humidity?


Yep, read the update above  .

The chances of hatching are high provided that you gave them a diapause. How long has it been?


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## MantidLord (May 1, 2010)

They were layed in October and September, and I put them outside for a diapuse. Outside temps were about 50 degrees in the winter. Btw, do you have any pics?


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## sbugir (May 1, 2010)

MantidLord said:


> They were layed in October and September, and I put them outside for a diapuse. Outside temps were about 50 degrees in the winter. Btw, do you have any pics?


I'll try to take some when my sis lets me use her camera...

Yeatzee, don't say anything if you look  .


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## Ntsees (May 2, 2010)

MantidLord said:


> Wow, down to twelve. Ntsees, do you have this species as well? Unfortunately, none I mine have hatched yet. Does anyone know have any input on the chances of mine hatching? Lemminweeks, did you test to see how they fair in low humidity?


They do occur in my area, although I haven't seen them for a while now. In regards to me having oothecae, nope. I'm focusing on _Iris oratoria _since they seem easier. Still waiting for them to hatch. If your oothecae has been incubating naturally (meaning it was left outside since last year), it should have hatched by now I think (according to my local _M. religiosa_). But, give it another month or two.


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## sbugir (May 3, 2010)

Ntsees said:


> They do occur in my area, although I haven't seen them for a while now. In regards to me having oothecae, nope. I'm focusing on _Iris oratoria _since they seem easier. Still waiting for them to hatch. If your oothecae has been incubating naturally (meaning it was left outside since last year), it should have hatched by now I think (according to my local _M. religiosa_). But, give it another month or two.


Ntsees, if you manage to catch some adults in the near future, I'd love to get my hands on few to see how size and girth vary amongst each regional species.


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## MantidLord (May 3, 2010)

As far as I. oraoria goes, mine haven't hatched either. I actually caught the religiosa specimens from sonoma, in northern california (4 hours from fresno). I'll give them another month to hatch. I'll be going back to CA in the summer, where I should be able to find some mature mantids. BTW, what conditions do you have your I. oratoria in? I've never seenany in CA, but I'd heard they're well established there.


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## sbugir (May 10, 2010)

Figured Id do an update...

I had an incident with fruit flies... err, they died...?

I have 7 nymphs left, the rest died due to starvation.

They are L3 and they have began to turn green.


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## sbugir (May 25, 2010)

Molted to L4... took a while. Pics coming soon.


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