# Dark Spots on Eyes



## GreenOasis (Dec 4, 2010)

My adult female shield has developed dark spots on the lenses of both her eyes and I am just wondering if anyone knows what they are or how to prevent/cure them? She was a very calm girl before and enjoyed being held (as much as a bug could), but now she is very skittish and leaps off our hands from sudden movements, so I'm pretty sure these dark spots are affecting her sight.

Also, she is not very old...just molted to adult a couple/few weeks ago, so I don't think this could be age related. Humidity perhaps?

Any help or comments would be appreciated!


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## guapoalto049 (Dec 4, 2010)

Is she in a cage with hard sides?


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## LauraMG (Dec 4, 2010)

It's pretty common. I've had several species do that as nymphs and adults. My Chinese female was the worst though.


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## GreenOasis (Dec 4, 2010)

She is in a plastic tub-style container with the lid cut out &amp; a screen glued in. She spends most of her time hanging from the screen at the top.

I keep her in the house, which stays about 74 degrees and has been pretty dry lately. I've been misting her more, but...I don't think this condition is reversible. Just hoping someone can tell me what causes it &amp; how to prevent it in the future.


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## Ntsees (Dec 4, 2010)

It usually means that the eyes were damaged. Maybe something poked it or something. Like all damages, molting would heal it but since it's already an adult, it's going to stay that way. Prevention? Well I can only think of a few things. (1) Don't feed it something that has the ability to hurt the mantid and (2) when a mantid is going to molt, try to make sure it can molt safely - meaning that as it molts, make sure there isn't any spikey things on bottom when it is sliding down out of it's molt.


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## guapoalto049 (Dec 5, 2010)

I really think its from the mantids walking into the sides of the clear enclosure. I've had this problem with so many Chinese that I keep in glass or plastic. I though it was just them but I kept a few shields in a critter keeper and what happened? Black eye spots! However, the shields in the net cages are fine.

When its warm the mantids get more active and end up trying to walk through the glass.


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## PhilinYuma (Dec 5, 2010)

guapoalto049 said:


> I really think its from the mantids walking into the sides of the clear enclosure. I've had this problem with so many Chinese that I keep in glass or plastic. I though it was just them but I kept a few shields in a critter keeper and what happened? Black eye spots! However, the shields in the net cages are fine.
> 
> When its warm the mantids get more active and end up trying to walk through the glass.


Yep, that's the standard explanation, though I'm not sure that anyone has proved it.


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## sporeworld (Dec 5, 2010)

I did that once. Walked right into a glass door and, sure enough, I ended up with a black eye. (Well, it's not exactly the same thing, but...)

;-)


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## Rick (Dec 5, 2010)

It generally isnot a problem. I have had mantids that had this issue so bad their entire eye was black, but it still didn't affect their vision from what I could tell. Most people will tell you the spots are from banging into the cage sides. I don't believe that is the cause since I also find it on wild mantids too. There is nothing you can do about it and as I said they are generally not a problem.


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## GreenOasis (Dec 5, 2010)

Perhaps once I get some net enclosures, I will keep some nymphs from the same hatch group in them (and some in plastic cups) to see if they ever develop "black eye". I know that no prey item has damaged her eyes. She hasn't had crickets since L5 and I feed her roaches by hand. (Flies I let her get on her own, but it takes her several tries now, where before the black spots, it only took one.)

I will have to get on here later and post a pic, if I can get a good one...that way, everyone will know what we're talking about!


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## dgerndt (Dec 5, 2010)

My adult Chinese mantis had black spots on both her eyes. She had a little trouble seeing, so I just helped her by hand feeding and pulling off a few legs from the crickets I gave her. It slowed them down and it was easier for her to catch them. She still lived a good life, and the black spots never covered her whole eyes. Your mantis should be fine.


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## lancaster1313 (Dec 5, 2010)

My female Stagmomantis _carolina_ developed black spots on her eyes. It didn't seem to stop her from catching prey at all. I have had several Tenodera _sinensis_ with the spots, and they could still see ok. I just don't like the way it looks.


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## PhilinYuma (Dec 5, 2010)

Rick said:


> It generally isnot a problem. I have had mantids that had this issue so bad their entire eye was black, but it still didn't affect their vision from what I could tell. Most people will tell you the spots are from banging into the cage sides. I don't believe that is the cause since I also find it on wild mantids too. There is nothing you can do about it and as I said they are generally not a problem.


Very interesting answer, Rick. It doesn't mean that captive mantids are not banging their eyes against their plastic enclosure, but it does show that it is not the only possible cause. Does this always yhappen to both eyes? If so, i would think it to be due to a pathological/deteriorative cause, akin to human cataracts,though cataracts sometimes develop in just one eye.


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## Krissim Klaw (Dec 5, 2010)

I do believe one of the way these spots can be caused is by repetitive rubbing along their eyes which they are prone to do when trying to get out of cage. Soft net cages in my experience seem to be the best to prevent this. Not because they don't still do it, but because the soft netting doesn't seem to cause the same damage a rougher surface could. Wouldn't surprise me to see this same issue on wild mantises because wild mantises are out in a rough and tumble world and mantises tend to go head or should I say eye first through their world when moving about.


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## lancaster1313 (Dec 5, 2010)

I thought that it had something to do with age, but I have an L4 Stagmomantis _carolina_ male with spots now. I also have one old Tenodera _sinensis _that I notice has been rubbing her face on her plastic container almost every day. I find it strange that she doesn't have a mark on her eyes, or anywhere. :blink:


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## GreenOasis (Dec 6, 2010)

I, too, have an ancient female Carolina, who rubs along the plastic cage ALL the time, yet has perfect eyes. The Shield with the dark spots has never rubbed from what I've seen. (She tends to actually reach forward with her raptor claws first...not head first.)

Here's a few pics I managed to get while she was eating a roach:


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## GreenOasis (Dec 6, 2010)

Oh, and as I was alluding to before...I think it may be a humidity issue. If she is not directly dehydrated, I think the "damage" may be from her rubbing her own eyes with her claws out of irritation from them being dry. I have noticed very slight improvement by misting her more...so I will be sure to keep the Shield nymphs at a higher humidity and see if that helps.

I've talked with Precarious before and he's mentioned that he mists stuff a lot...Precarious, have you ever noticed black spots on your mantids' eyes?


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## sporeworld (Dec 6, 2010)

That face is priceless! Looks like it's right out of a cartoon! Big, puppy dog eyes. Sooooo sweeeet...


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## lancaster1313 (Dec 6, 2010)

I mist my mantids alot, (I am hoping not too much)  , twice a day most of the time. Sometimes I will do it more often if the paper towel seems dry, a few of my mantids like to drink alot. :lol: Some of my mantids get the spots and some of them don't. It would be nice to figure out how to prevent the spots, if they can be prevented.


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## GreenOasis (Dec 6, 2010)

Sporeworld said:


> That face is priceless! Looks like it's right out of a cartoon! Big, puppy dog eyes. Sooooo sweeeet...


Well, *I* think she's adorable, but I may be a bit partial.


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## Rick (Dec 7, 2010)

PhilinYuma said:


> Very interesting answer, Rick. It doesn't mean that captive mantids are not banging their eyes against their plastic enclosure, but it does show that it is not the only possible cause. Does this always yhappen to both eyes? If so, i would think it to be due to a pathological/deteriorative cause, akin to human cataracts,though cataracts sometimes develop in just one eye.


It is not always on both eyes. I've had it develop on mantids in net cages too, so that should throw a twist into the banging on the glass theory.


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## dgerndt (Dec 7, 2010)

GreenOasis said:


> Well, *I* think she's adorable, but I may be a bit partial.


She IS really cute! She has such huge bright eyes... so adorable!


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## Robs (Dec 15, 2010)

A friend of mine has a mantis that seems to be developing the same problem. He caught it in the wild here in California, three or four months ago, as an adult. I've attached some pictures of it that I took earlier today.

Also, does this mantis look too fat?? It used to be pretty thin, but it laid a couple of eggs in the past month and ever since then it's gained a lot of weight. Is that normal?


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## Rick (Dec 15, 2010)

Robs said:


> A friend of mine has a mantis that seems to be developing the same problem. He caught it in the wild here in California, three or four months ago, as an adult. I've attached some pictures of it that I took earlier today.
> 
> Also, does this mantis look too fat?? It used to be pretty thin, but it laid a couple of eggs in the past month and ever since then it's gained a lot of weight. Is that normal?


It happens. Especially on older mantids. The spots won't hurt anything. Looks like she is getting readyt to lay an ooth any day now.


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## Litleape (Sep 4, 2011)

I have noticed this a lot with mine. Strangely, it is usually after feeding. My limbatas' entire eyes will turn black but then the next day they are green again. I am not sure what it is from. I thought maybe a bacteria from the feeder insects. It happens to my orchids too, except their eyes completely turn a dark purple. Then the next days they are baby blue again. None of them seem to have trouble seeing or catching prey, and I have never had any die so I tend to not worry about it too much.


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## lancaster1313 (Sep 5, 2011)

Litleape said:


> I have noticed this a lot with mine. Strangely, it is usually after feeding. My limbatas' entire eyes will turn black but then the next day they are green again. I am not sure what it is from. I thought maybe a bacteria from the feeder insects. It happens to my orchids too, except their eyes completely turn a dark purple. Then the next days they are baby blue again. None of them seem to have trouble seeing or catching prey, and I have never had any die so I tend to not worry about it too much.


This sounds more like the temporary darkening of mantids' eyes when they are in low light conditions. It is normal, and pretty cool. It should have nothing to do with feeding. Do you, by chance, mostly feed at night?


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## Litleape (Sep 5, 2011)

likebugs said:


> This sounds more like the temporary darkening of mantids' eyes when they are in low light conditions. It is normal, and pretty cool. It should have nothing to do with feeding. Do you, by chance, mostly feed at night?


Well, no I don't only feed at night but when i feed them it's usually when I pay most attention to them. Maybe it happens more but I am just not around to see it except for feeding time.


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## lancaster1313 (Sep 5, 2011)

Litleape said:


> Well, no I don't only feed at night but when i feed them it's usually when I pay most attention to them. Maybe it happens more but I am just not around to see it except for feeding time.


All of my mantid's eyes go dark, when they are in the dark. I will see dark eyes when I turn on the light in their room at night.

I love how they can get black, grey, red, or purple, depending on the mantis.


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