# Gonatista grisea



## aNisip (Nov 25, 2012)

Hello again,

(you dont have to read the story if you dont want, just skip to bottom  I was at a Nature Center today hunting some _Gonatista grisea_ with my father and pointed to the first oak tree I came across and said "here, these oak trees are loved by _Gonatista_s, perfect bark and cryptic coloration..." and as I looked up the tree a little bit, examining closely, saw a _Gonatista_ ootheca! Granted there were openings in it and therefore am assuming it has already hatched, but took that as a great sign! Now I wanted to find more ooths or nymphs, but didn't have any collecting cups with me bc I was told the park doesn't like ppl taking wildlife...so just kept on and went on the trail along the river scouring every tree and the tree bark up and down for mantids and ooths...here is where it gets good!  

I RANDOMLY glance over to a thin tree and see this lichen like protrusion sticking out near the top 15ft away (I have really good vision :detective: ), abt 6' up...but went in for a closer inspection bc it didn't quite look like all the other protusions and more flat, then went in abt a foot away to see its full detail...it was indeed a gonatista grisea nymph! And asked my dad to look on that tree for mantis, he said there was nothing on it..then I happily pointed the mantis out and he was in awe...so I then proceeded to reach for the little bugger, and it shot up the tree even further with lightning speed :taz: ...so my dad reached up to the top and pulled it down like an arch so I could catch it...but then it snapped  and he was projected to the grass with great velocity  . ...so I immediately began blowing in the grass to get him to move, and grazing my fingers to find him...but eventually before getting ready to move on bc the park was closing in 5 min...I saw him propped up on a leaf looking at me like "what in tarnations are you doing?" :sweatdrop: 

So I got him home safely and set him up in this, temps are between 75-85 during day and 70-75 @ night. He is being fed fruit flies (turks) currently and will try baby lateralis soon...

Thanks for looking and any input!  

Cheers,

Andrew

..please excuse the bluriness on some of the photos, taken with my Samsung Galaxy S III...enjoy.


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## hierodula (Nov 25, 2012)

lol, in half the pics, i couldnt see the mantis!!


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## Mime454 (Nov 25, 2012)

My most wanted species. Really crazy that they're not in culture considering that they're native to the states.


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## aNisip (Nov 25, 2012)

hierodula said:


> lol, in half the pics, i couldnt see the mantis!!


the mantis IS NOT present in only one...  



Mime454 said:


> My most wanted species. Really crazy that they're not in culture considering that they're native to the states.


they are difficult to raise, or so I have been told/researched...I will try my best to find some more and get them going...


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## brancsikia339 (Nov 25, 2012)

Omg amazing!!!!


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## Malakyoma (Nov 25, 2012)

Wait its NOT present in only one? I couldnt see it in most of them.


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## lancaster1313 (Nov 25, 2012)

Wow! I can't believe that you saw that!!!  

I need to get out to that park, but can I borrow those peepers of yours? I am sure that I won't be able to see anything but bark and lichen with mine. nline2long:


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## CoolMantid (Nov 25, 2012)

Congrats on the find! I really wanna shot at these species. AS said before couldnt even find the mantis in some of the pics


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## aNisip (Nov 25, 2012)

_Gonatista grisea_ IS in 4 of the 5 pictures, he/she is NOT in the one where the ooth is glued to the bark(4th pic)The first pic is easy  ,second pic still kinda easy, last pic a little difficult, but I can see why the third pic is difficult......my eyes are very good, better than 20/20 :smarty: says my eye doctor... :detective: 

I hope I can keep this little bugger alive!  fingers crossed :sailor: :clover: 

Edit: Thanks Nick!  I plan on going hunting again next Sunday, same place, but earlier...Adrienne, you want to come along? (or anybody, if you can make it  )


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## angelofdeathzz (Nov 25, 2012)

Nice Find, your eyes must be good to spot that outside and if theres one you may be able to find a mate or two? Happy hunting.  

You keep most and release some back in the wild, a win win!


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## Rick (Nov 26, 2012)

A nymph this time of year? They must have more than one generation per year. I kept them for quite awhile back when they were in culture, they are not hard to keep at all. I really want to get my hands on some of them.


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## aNisip (Nov 28, 2012)

My friend just informed me that he too caught some; one adult female and two female nymphs (L3/L4)....like most species we need some males....and Rick I'm assuming one gen made it to adult in late summer and had offspring, these guys are apart of that offspring. ..I'll try to get some more...


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## Rick (Nov 28, 2012)

If you can get a few let me know. I had a lead on some a few months ago but the deal fell through. Been on my list to get back into culture for awhile now.


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## lancaster1313 (Nov 28, 2012)

Rick said:


> A nymph this time of year? They must have more than one generation per year. I kept them for quite awhile back when they were in culture, they are not hard to keep at all. I really want to get my hands on some of them.


Many people ask the same thing, lol.

It seems to be normal to find young adult mantids and nymphs around this time of year in South Florida. I am not sure how many of them, if any, will make it past some of the short cold spells that will be coming soon.


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## Rick (Nov 28, 2012)

likebugs said:


> Many people ask the same thing, lol.
> 
> It seems to be normal to find young adult mantids and nymphs around this time of year in South Florida. I am not sure how many of them, if any, will make it past some of the short cold spells that will be coming soon.


I would find it interesting if there are multiple generations per year.


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## Malakyoma (Nov 28, 2012)

Probably only possible where its warm enough year round to support them. Like here in Canada ooths hatch in march or so, and adult mantids can be found in august/september. You dont see any in December because not much could really survive out there at that time of year. But in Southern florida, if the ooth ends up being late and hatches in August then there probably isnt much difference to the mantid and it could be laying ooths in november. Still interesting though.


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## Rick (Nov 29, 2012)

Malakyoma said:


> Probably only possible where its warm enough year round to support them. Like here in Canada ooths hatch in march or so, and adult mantids can be found in august/september. You dont see any in December because not much could really survive out there at that time of year. But in Southern florida, if the ooth ends up being late and hatches in August then there probably isnt much difference to the mantid and it could be laying ooths in november. Still interesting though.


I'm familiar with the process. I haven't seen anything in the literature or any reliable reports of it is what I was saying.


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## aNisip (Nov 29, 2012)

Theses individuals like Adrienne said, won't be able to survive the short cold periods we get during the winter...like all mantids living in areas where it does get cold rely on ooths for thr upcoming generation in the Spring...I don't think they would be able to survive the few cold nights that get in the low 40's...


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## Rick (Nov 29, 2012)

AndrewNisip said:


> Theses individuals like Adrienne said, won't be able to survive the short cold periods we get during the winter...like all mantids living in areas where it does get cold rely on ooths for thr upcoming generation in the Spring...I don't think they would be able to survive the few cold nights that get in the low 40's...


Yes, I know how it works haha. Been doing this for awhile. I'm simply saying that if nymphs are frequently found late in the year the species may be multigenerational, even if most or all of that second generation doesn't survive.


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## lancaster1313 (Nov 29, 2012)

I will go a little fftopic: with this and say that I think that it is possible for some mantids to survive a couple of our mild cold snaps. I can't be sure about the _Gonatista grisea_, but I have seen _Tenodera sinensis _and _Stagmomantis carolina _that had obviously survived a few cool nights (low50s/possible high 40s) in the mountains of TN. I also heard from a reliable source that a male _S. carolina_ was found alive after some snow in NY.

Around here, it rarely goes down to the 30s. It also warms up quite a bit in the day and can actually get hot.

If we were to have a very mild winter, I think it could be possible to have multiple generations.

I am very tempted to go mantis hunting after a good cold snap! B) :lol:


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## Rick (Nov 29, 2012)

40's is not going to kill them off. It takes a hard freeze.


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## Mvalenz (Nov 29, 2012)

I think that's cool that you can go hunting and find any mantis let alone one so camouflaged. Every time I've gone mantis hunting I came up empty handed. Nice find.


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## lancaster1313 (Nov 29, 2012)

Rick said:


> 40's is not going to kill them off. It takes a hard freeze.


I will definitely have to look for survivors.  

We get the occasional morning frost around here, but no hard freeze. In the coastal areas especially, it doesn't get cold enough for that. :tt2: 

Only cold enough to kill some iguanas.


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## aNisip (Nov 29, 2012)

This calls for catching some g grisea and keeping them on the screened porch and seeing how they do during the "winter"...and Rick I knew you knew what it meant....just stating the obvious  mah bad!  ...hopefully we can shed some light on this specie. ..and Adrienne would you want to join me?


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## lancaster1313 (Nov 29, 2012)

I would love to catch some G. grisea, but I don't yet know if I can make it on Sunday. I will send you a message when I know.


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## Malakyoma (Nov 29, 2012)

On the topic of hunting for mantids... Tenodera sinensis and Mantis religiosa are native to my area. Now that there's snow on the ground I imagine they're all quite dead, but their ooths have to be out there. There's a nice little forest nearby, was wondering if maybe I should scout it out. Where do you guys typically look when hunting ooths? Any particular height or thickness of branch or something?


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## aNisip (Nov 29, 2012)

During the winter, ooth searching is great! Look at about a little below eye lever to mid thigh (about the height of bushes) ....everything else will be dead and brown and you can easily spot a big ooth...it will look different from the rest of the bush or small tree...


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## gripen (Nov 29, 2012)

Good luck with these Andrew! They are really a beautiful sp. Can the L1s eat mells ok?


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## aNisip (Nov 29, 2012)

gripen said:


> Good luck with these Andrew! They are really a beautiful sp. Can the L1s eat mells ok?


I would assume so! But flightless melanos are probably the perfect size, anything bigger might be too big and scare them away; I am not speaking from experience when I say this, but the hatchlings (_Gonatista grisea _hatchlings) are pretty small so thats why I would recommend flightless melanos...



likebugs said:


> I would love to catch some G. grisea, but I don't yet know if I can make it on Sunday. I will send you a message when I know.


Alright Adrienne, sounds good!


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## angelofdeathzz (Nov 29, 2012)

People often talk about FF size, but I've only kept Turkish gliders (a form of D hydei) for over 2 years now, and all my nymphs eat them including L1 ant mantis, L1 Orchids, L1 P davisoni, and many many more, I think people have more fear of them eating a larger ff than the mantis do, even at L1 they know they're the predator and the ff is pray. Also I can't count how many times a young mantis caught and ate a BB bigger than itself, forget the fact that the BB was pulling it along at first till it said "fine I'll eat your head, that should slow you down". Were not re-inventing how or what they eat all to much, they've been doing it for millions of years without our help, I think?

Do you know how small a L1 ant mantis is...hydei size, and they ate them no problem.  

Sorry if I'm off topic Andrew.


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## Malakyoma (Nov 29, 2012)

angelofdeathzz said:


> People often talk about FF size, but I've only kept Turkish gliders (a form of D hydei) for over 2 years now, and all my nymphs eat them including L1 ant mantis, L1 Orchids, L1 P davisoni, and many many more, I think people have more fear of them eating a larger ff than the mantis do, even at L1 they know they're the predator and the ff is pray. Also I can't count how many times a young mantis caught and ate a BB bigger than itself, forget the fact that the BB was pulling it along at first till it said "fine I'll eat your head, that should slow you down". Were not re-inventing how or what they eat all to much, they've been doing it for millions of years without our help, I think?
> 
> Do you know how small a L1 ant mantis is...hydei size, and they ate them no problem.
> 
> Sorry if I'm off topic Andrew.


L1 boxers are about the size of the melanos  Maybe a hydei is too big.


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## Rick (Nov 30, 2012)

Malakyoma said:


> On the topic of hunting for mantids... Tenodera sinensis and Mantis religiosa are native to my area. Now that there's snow on the ground I imagine they're all quite dead, but their ooths have to be out there. There's a nice little forest nearby, was wondering if maybe I should scout it out. Where do you guys typically look when hunting ooths? Any particular height or thickness of branch or something?


Not in a forest. You want to look in areas that are full of weeds. Places that have goldenrod seem to be a good choice usually.

If you guys find G. grisea please consider grabbing a few extra. They are on my most wanted list.


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## Malakyoma (Nov 30, 2012)

Rick said:


> Not in a forest. You want to look in areas that are full of weeds. Places that have goldenrod seem to be a good choice usually.
> 
> If you guys find G. grisea please consider grabbing a few extra. They are on my most wanted list.


There's already a half foot of snow on the ground, any soft stemmed weeds are dead and gone. I can look where they usually grow, but I dont see why a mantis would lay on those. Will keep in mind when I go out though.

Theres a stretch of sidewalk near my home where Nightshade grows all along the chainlink fence. think thats a good place to look?


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## Rick (Dec 1, 2012)

Malakyoma said:


> There's already a half foot of snow on the ground, any soft stemmed weeds are dead and gone. I can look where they usually grow, but I dont see why a mantis would lay on those. Will keep in mind when I go out though.
> 
> Theres a stretch of sidewalk near my home where Nightshade grows all along the chainlink fence. think thats a good place to look?


That's why I mentioned goldenrod as they have stiff stems. Not sure if you have them there though. You can look all you want in a forested environment but if you want to really find ooths you need to look in overgrown fields, lots, and yes, fencelines. Those places are often full of feeder insects in the summer as well as mantids that feed on them. When I want to find mantids I don't even think twice about a forested environment, I go straight to the places that are full of thick weeds. And yes they will lay ooths on soft stemmed plants. I have an ooth in my yard right now that I found on a plant that has stems that don't even last until spring, but with snow you will have trouble finding those. Try the fence.


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## Malakyoma (Dec 1, 2012)

Rick said:


> That's why I mentioned goldenrod as they have stiff stems. Not sure if you have them there though. You can look all you want in a forested environment but if you want to really find ooths you need to look in overgrown fields, lots, and yes, fencelines. Those places are often full of feeder insects in the summer as well as mantids that feed on them. When I want to find mantids I don't even think twice about a forested environment, I go straight to the places that are full of thick weeds. And yes they will lay ooths on soft stemmed plants. I have an ooth in my yard right now that I found on a plant that has stems that don't even last until spring, but with snow you will have trouble finding those. Try the fence.


That I will thanks  I'll update if I find any. Might have to be tomorrow with all the molts today though lol


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## brancsikia339 (Dec 1, 2012)

Where i live we already had snow so hunting mantids is out. I went searching a few weeks ago and found 5 tenodera ooths (most look infertile) and a religiosa ooth.


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## Rick (Dec 2, 2012)

brancsikia339 said:


> Where i live we already had snow so hunting mantids is out. I went searching a few weeks ago and found 5 tenodera ooths (most look infertile) and a religiosa ooth.


How does an ooth look infertile?


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## Malakyoma (Dec 2, 2012)

Rick said:


> How does an ooth look infertile?


Maybe its in bad condition. If I found an ooth that looked deflated, flat, maybe a little damp/squishy I would assume it was no good. I'd still incubate but I'd assume the worst.


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## lancaster1313 (Dec 2, 2012)

My daughter once found a _Tenodera sinensis _ootheca that was partially chewed with some algae or moss growing on one side. The thing was semi transparent... but, it hatched!


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## brancsikia339 (Dec 2, 2012)

Rick said:


> How does an ooth look infertile?


Torn to pieces, looks rotted and hatched



likebugs said:


> My daughter once found a _Tenodera sinensis _ootheca that was partially chewed with some algae or moss growing on one side. The thing was semi transparent... but, it hatched!


That's how mine look, so i guess i'll keep 'em!


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## Rick (Dec 2, 2012)

brancsikia339 said:


> Torn to pieces, looks rotted and hatched


Well those describe vastly different conditions than infertile. Infertile ooths look just like fertile ooths. What you are describing are old ooths left over from past seasons.


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## Termite48 (Dec 3, 2012)

One member, months ago, sent me some wild caught oothecae, that he found in a fence. So mantids apparently like fences of what ever construction as long as it provides a place of attachment and freedom of movement. So a chain link type is perfect.


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## aNisip (Dec 5, 2012)

To get back on topic, my hunt was very successful and managed to find and collect 3 nymphs, one nymph which I thought was L2 (which just molted and now leads me to believe it was an L1) and a male L4(?) and female L4(?), then stopped by a friend's work (thank you so much!) who had previously collected some ( an adult female, and an L4(?) female). So now my total is up to* 5* _Gonatista grisea_ and *2* ooths (all wild caught) . Enjoy the pictures! (I only have some uploaded now because imgur isnt working, will add the rest when that is fixed)


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## aNisip (Dec 5, 2012)

Can you spot all 5? ( its not a good photo of their true color, they are all pretty easy to spot)






Thanks for looking!


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## CoolMantid (Dec 6, 2012)

Whoa nice!!!! Please keep us updated. Please put me on the list for nymphs when they breed! Thanks


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## Danny. (Dec 6, 2012)

Lucky ...


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## Ranitomeya (Dec 6, 2012)

Those are some spectacular pieces of carnivorous lichens!


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## Malakyoma (Dec 6, 2012)

I really like them. Very cool looking. Keep us updated with the ooths and such


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## Rick (Dec 6, 2012)

Nice! I've always loved em.


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## AxolotlsAreCoolToo (Dec 6, 2012)

wow great find! is the ootheca fertile and unhatched?


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## sally (Dec 6, 2012)

I found my tenodera sinesis oothe here in northern IL in Nov. In the high dead grasses next to a building. It was in the all day sun section, and the building was like a windbreak


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## Reptiliatus (Dec 6, 2012)

Wonderful! They are exceptionally beautiful specimens!


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## Mime454 (Dec 6, 2012)

I'll pay for shipping both ways if you send me one of these ooths instead of a lobata one.

Worth a try, right?


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## aNisip (Dec 6, 2012)

Hertarem45 said:


> Whoa nice!!!! Please keep us updated. Please put me on the list for nymphs when they breed! Thanks





Ranitomeya said:


> Those are some spectacular pieces of carnivorous lichens!





Malakyoma said:


> I really like them. Very cool looking. Keep us updated with the ooths and such





Rick said:


> Nice! I've always loved em.





Danny. said:


> Lucky ...





Reptiliatus said:


> Wonderful! They are exceptionally beautiful specimens!





Mime454 said:


> I'll pay for shipping both ways if you send me one of these ooths instead of a lobata one.
> 
> Worth a try, right?


 we'll see, lolLol thanks everybody and I will keep it updated! and I hope the ooth is fertile and un-hatched. They really are beautiful creatures!  

-Andrew


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## kunturman (Dec 6, 2012)

This is a good subject for lab work. Someone out there with an entomology mayor and Gonatista grisea ooths ready to hatch?

Speculation is not a valid science.


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## gripen (Dec 6, 2012)

amamantodea said:


> This is a good subject for lab work. Someone out there with an entomology mayor and Gonatista grisea ooths ready to hatch?
> 
> Speculation is not a valid science.


Neither is this forum valid science


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## aNisip (Dec 13, 2012)

Update: The male has molted and one of the females (the L4s) the separate caught, first grisea caught molted and is showing more grey, along with the male...and the adult female has laid another ooth, but I opened up the wild caught/found ooth, and it has already hatched...all 6 are still alive and doing well!


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## D_Hemptress (Dec 13, 2012)

AndrewNisip said:


>


i can find the nymph in all the pictures except this one... i feel like im playing wheres waldo so i have to know?


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## Mime454 (Dec 13, 2012)

D_Hemptress said:


> i can find the nymph in all the pictures except this one... i feel like im playing wheres waldo so i have to know?


It is not in that one.


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## D_Hemptress (Dec 13, 2012)

unk: sweet what do i win?!

i felt like i was playing a game


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## aNisip (Dec 13, 2012)

You win the sheer joy of locating g grisea? Lol, they aee super hard to find in the wild, I just need to get the right shots of them and then it will be a challenge


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## D_Hemptress (Dec 13, 2012)

AndrewNisip said:


> You win the sheer joy of locating g grisea? Lol, they aee super hard to find in the wild, I just need to get the right shots of them and then it will be a challenge


im ready! :shifty:


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## aNisip (Dec 13, 2012)

Give me some time, finals are next week, ill have time after that...


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## aNisip (Dec 18, 2012)

I was feeding ninja tonight and she was just wolfing down roaches :chef: like it was nobody's business, but then an L4 carolina male whom I let free range, saw the action and went in to investigate...then he stole one of her roaches and she was less then pleased...her reaction...


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## hierodula (Dec 18, 2012)

hahahaha


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## Malakyoma (Dec 18, 2012)

er mah gerd thats the cutest thing I've ever seen


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## lancaster1313 (Dec 18, 2012)

Impressive!


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## Mime454 (Dec 18, 2012)

AndrewNisip said:


> I was feeding ninja tonight and she was just wolfing down roaches :chef: like it was nobody's business, but then an L4 carolina male whom I let free range, saw the action and went in to investigate...then he stole one of her roaches and she was less then pleased...her reaction...[img=[URL="http://i.imgur.com/0oYDB.jpg%5D"]http://i.imgur.com/0oYDB.jpg][/URL]


That's seriously awesome! I how that you get a big hatch, so big that it forces you to sell them!


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## aNisip (Dec 18, 2012)

I hope I get a big hatch too!  and thanks you guys, I thought it was cute, yet unexpected...


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## aNisip (Dec 21, 2012)

I realize that these guys spend most of their time in the wild resting on a tree vertically, with their head facing down...so i constructed a new prototype for the _grisea_'s to live in. After I released the female in it, she took to the "tree" almost as if she was in the wild, she flattened herself out and chilled...same with the male, but for his tree i added an airplant and spanish moss...He loves it also...all it is is an oak tree branch, hot glued evenly to the bottom, and a moat of sphagnum moss surrounding it so it doesn't get soggy and rotten...and pieces of bark to the tops....(first top as a bare spot in the middle bc the branch that I used was taller and barely fit with the top on, so i didnt glue any bark there...the second top is full bc the branch is shorter) Enjoy!


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## Danny. (Dec 21, 2012)

Lucky ...


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## lancaster1313 (Dec 21, 2012)

Very nice, Andrew! Please keep updating on how the insects are doing.


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## Rick (Dec 22, 2012)

Pretty slick Andrew. I stripped large pieces of thin bark from dead trees and glued it flush to the sides of the enclosure.


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## yen_saw (Dec 22, 2012)

Nice set up Andrew! I have done the same before and found out that the mantis hang on the lid most of the time. Their eyes could get damage if hitting the side of the container too often, especially the skittish one (most of the males). You can glue damp cotton around the edge of the container near the lid to protect the mantis eye and keep the humidity as well. Otherwise keep the mantis in large enclosure. All th best!


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