# Good food vs. Bad food



## Digger (Feb 25, 2013)

I read so many opposing views regarding diet for our pets. Some say crix are great, others say they're killers. Some think mealworms work, others insist they're poison.

Here in the cold Northeast, it's really challenging to get food for your mantis. It's particularly tough if you only have one or two mouths to feed.

Nikki Mantis lived very healthily on gut-loaded crix. My L5 Parashendale affinis is now a very picky eater (I read they're supposed to be voracious) - she doesn't like crix, eats a little gut goo from mealworms (in her earlier instars she loved fruit flies). What's a parent to do?? Incidentally, as an experiment, I'm allowing the mealworms to mature at room temp. I'm also gut loading them simultaneously with banana apple and orange. I'm seeing that the larve, just prior to going to pupae stage are fat with pure while liquid. Since the pupae are pure white when formed - I'm assuming this goo is all the pupae makings just prior to solidifying to the pupal stage. I'm further assuming that this white goo should be loaded with fats and proteins (for chitin formation). I've given one of these massive ice cream cones to Ponder Mantis and she did eat some of the fluid. Just wonder if it's ok for her??

Ordered my first batch of HFs from Rebecca. We'll see how Ponder takes to those. By the way ---- how do you gut load the flies??


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## Mime454 (Feb 25, 2013)

My L5 takes blue bottles easily. That might be a better choice.


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## Sticky (Feb 25, 2013)

I dont care for dealing with houseflies. If they get away from you they are hard to catch. BBs go to windows and so are eay to catch.

House flies dont and have fun teasing you while reminding you they are loose!

I spread a thin layer of honey on a part of the fly container. It does not last long with my bbs. I sprinkled some ground beepollen on it too. I would like to hear what others do too.


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## Malakyoma (Feb 25, 2013)

I feed my mantids mealworm pupae often. my male griffin is eating one right now. I don't think there's any nutritional advantage of pupae over worm, but its easier to eat.


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## Birdman (Feb 25, 2013)

We hatch our BB flies in standard quart deli. containers with screen tops. Just place a drop of honey on several of the screen covered hole areas and the flies will eat it up quickly. We do this two or three times a day for a couple of days to gut load the flies. BB flies are much easier to deal with than the house flies and seem to hatch at a better rate. Hope this helps......


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## aNisip (Feb 25, 2013)

If I don't have to take the risk with crix I won't....that's just me...now if I am desperate I will make sure they are very well gutloaded...I use mealies and supers too; gutloaded of course. And bbs, I hatch them out in a collapseable butterfly cage and fill a bottle cap with 1/2 water 1/2 honey...and mix well, then add some mesh so the flies don't drown...


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## twolfe (Feb 25, 2013)

I don't like to use crickets for flower mantids or small to medium species. But I found I had no choice once my Deroplatys desiccata became adults. The female will not eat bb flies. I also give crickets to my other large species about once a week.

I raise my own darkling beetles (mealworms) and feed all stages (larvae, pupae and adults) to various mantids, but it's never their main diet. Some like them better than others. Only some species will eat them in the adult stage, and they are best used as feeders right after they become adults and before their wings darken and harden.

Houseflies and blue bottle flies are my main food for most mantids after they grow out of the fruit fly stage. I just feed the houseflies right after they hatch without gut loading them. I do sometimes gut load bb flies or dip them in honey and pollen.


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## Orin (Feb 25, 2013)

There are a lot of things to consider when it comes to live foods and many rumors probably are only rumors. Crickets have long been the most useful and most popular but others like large flies that can be easier to deal with have become available recently at a decent price. Crickets are certainly more nutritious but they can kill a molting mantis and may not be eaten if they hide. Also, supposedly, a cricket disease that killed off a lot of feeders is thought to be able to affect some predators but chances are if you have living crickets they have never seen that disease since it kills them. Mealworms may be nutritious but it is really difficult to get most mantids to eat them because they aren't a very active or high profile prey.


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## sally (Feb 25, 2013)

i have honey and bee pollen i feed to the bbflys. :gun_bandana: blue bottle flys uuuugggghhh. what a pain in the . but the mantids love them. i am going through the forums to reaquaint myself on the propper way to distribute them (without them FLYING EVERYWHERE ) but yes the do like the windows and they are slow sooo, just a pain in the !!!! i like the ice bucket idea and also the stopper idea. anyway good luck! i finally got on a delivery schedule which will help my timing. now if i could just master the art of hydei hatching lol


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## Digger (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks for all the information, ideas and feedback. Orin - can't wait for your new book! Also, since I don't breed and keep only one or two (or three) mantids, custom (hand) feeding is not a problem. Thus, for mealies, I'll cut off the head and bring the ooze to the mantid's mouth. Once tasted (if they like it), they'll generally take it from there. I've relied heavily on crix since, again, I need a very limited count. But, as I found with Nikki Mantis (T. sinensis), crix were pretty much ignored unless introduced by hand. Most of you guys don't have that luxury.

Flies: I've avoided them like the plague (oh, wait, that's fleas) since there is a zero tolerance in this household for escapees. I just ordered house flies, but reading your responses - I guess I should have gone with BBs. I can see how flies are better for feeders in that they keep the mantid's attention and will often be up at the roof where the pet is hanging.


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## D_Hemptress (Feb 25, 2013)

......oops i posted on the wrong thread


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## angelofdeathzz (Feb 25, 2013)

Everything will eat BB's and I never once heard of a single incident of a mantis going sick from them, some eat one a day others may need 10, it's just easy to raise/feed(honey) blue-bottles as well as safe for your mantis...it's a no brainer!


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## Introvertebrate (Feb 25, 2013)

You're in Michigan, which means you've got to bring your breeding efforts indoors this time of year. Aren't blue-bottle larvae a little smelly for that?


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## Mvalenz (Feb 25, 2013)

I feed my flies honey and water. crix get potato and some lettuce. Never had a problem and they do very well on these diets. The mantids gobble em up too. No need for all the fancy additives.

My budwing nymphs are able to eat medium sized red runner roaches. They go gaga over them. But i only have a limited supply. Otherwise they will easily eat 4 small crix in a sitting. What temp and humidity do you have Ponder at?


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## sally (Feb 25, 2013)

i feed my crickets(if i use them) hungry jack potato flakes and oats with bee pollen and sometimes apple


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## angelofdeathzz (Feb 25, 2013)

Introvertebrate said:


> You're in Michigan, which means you've got to bring your breeding efforts indoors this time of year. Aren't blue-bottle larvae a little smelly for that?


I buy spikes by the 1000 and keep them in a small fridge, hatch some out as needed, keep in wide shallow deli, feed honey, and that lasts 3-4 weeks. simplistico...


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## Mr. Hyde (Feb 25, 2013)

AndrewNisip said:


> If I don't have to take the risk with crix I won't....that's just me...now if I am desperate I will make sure they are very well gutloaded..


This

Also, on the HF vs BBs discussion, as mentioned, they can both get away from you, but I find that BBs are dumb and slow. Whereas HFs are difficult to wrangle if they get away. Plus they are a little bigger but not very aggressive, so most of the small guys can still eat them I have a pic of our little Wahli eating one easily bigger than he was. Crix will also tend to be more aggressive during our pets sensitive times such as molting or dying. So to lower the risk and also not need to remove them, flies make a good feeder.


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## Rick (Feb 26, 2013)

There is nothing wrong with crickets. A few people had issues due to either their improper care of the crickets or they acquired them from some place that didn't care for them properly. If you care for them properly they make an excellent food source. And I also believe crickets being a danger to mantids is overblown. I never had that issue. If you use common sense and don't put food in with molting mantids you won't have an issue. That goes for crickets, flies, or anything else.

Mealworms are fine as a food but I don't believe they should be the primary food source. For one they are not really something most mantids will go after since they don't really move much and stay down at the bottom. I also believe nutritionally they are lacking.


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## yen_saw (Feb 26, 2013)

Mantis will feed on any kind of insects in the wild so the only bad insects are those parasitic/pesticide infected insects. Diversify is the key. It is better to use a variety of feeder insects instead of one type of (good) insect.


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## Digger (Feb 26, 2013)

Mvalenz said:


> I feed my flies honey and water. crix get potato and some lettuce. Never had a problem and they do very well on these diets. The mantids gobble em up too. No need for all the fancy additives.
> 
> My budwing nymphs are able to eat medium sized red runner roaches. They go gaga over them. But i only have a limited supply. Otherwise they will easily eat 4 small crix in a sitting. What temp and humidity do you have Ponder at?


good question Mike. Temp and humidity are not optimum. Temp is fine during the day, about 80 deg F. At night (and for about 7 hours) the temp slowly drops to ~65 deg F. Then brought back to 75 - 80 in the a.m. Humidity (during these winter months) is very low. I do keep a bowl of water on a supplementary heater in the room (my home office) and also mist Ponder's condo twice daily (a little more than usual). It's a challenge for many of use in the northern winter climates.


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## Mvalenz (Feb 26, 2013)

Digger said:


> good question Mike. Temp and humidity are not optimum. Temp is fine during the day, about 80 deg F. At night (and for about 7 hours) the temp slowly drops to ~65 deg F. Then brought back to 75 - 80 in the a.m. Humidity (during these winter months) is very low. I do keep a bowl of water on a supplementary heater in the room (my home office) and also mist Ponder's condo twice daily (a little more than usual). It's a challenge for many of use in the northern winter climates.


Raise the temp 5 degrees to 85 during the day. You'd be surprised how different they act from a small change in the temp. 65 seems a little low for night time. try 75. This may be why he is not eating so much. Low metabolism. I keep mine at about 85 day 80 night.


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## Digger (Feb 26, 2013)

Mike -

Unfortunately I don't have zone heating in the house. So 85 in the den would be 85 throughout the house. No can do. Any suggestions for temperature control just for Ponder's small apartment? Do'nt want to keep a heat lamp on at night because of possible fire hazard.


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## Introvertebrate (Feb 26, 2013)

angelofdeathzz said:


> I buy spikes by the 1000 and keep them in a small fridge, hatch some out as needed, keep in wide shallow deli, feed honey, and that lasts 3-4 weeks. simplistico...


Got it. Thanks.


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## lancaster1313 (Feb 27, 2013)

Digger said:


> Mike -
> 
> Unfortunately I don't have zone heating in the house. So 85 in the den would be 85 throughout the house. No can do. Any suggestions for temperature control just for Ponder's small apartment? Do'nt want to keep a heat lamp on at night because of possible fire hazard.


You can place the apartment on top of a warm electrical appliance. Maybe on a satellite receiver which is always warm even when it is off?


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## sally (Feb 27, 2013)

likebugs said:


> You can place the apartment on top of a warm electrical appliance. Maybe on a satellite receiver which is always warm even when it is off?


I use a small reptile pad heater. You do have to plug it in but I don't think there is many issues with leaving the plugged in. I stuck mine on the ouside of the container, on the bottom.


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## Digger (Feb 27, 2013)

sally said:


> I use a small reptile pad heater. You do have to plug it in but I don't think there is many issues with leaving the plugged in. I stuck mine on the ouside of the container, on the bottom.


Last night on chat, a seedling heater pad was suggested. Maybe I can find a reptile heater pad locally, perhaps @ Pet Smart.


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## sally (Feb 27, 2013)

Digger said:


> Last night on chat, a seedling heater pad was suggested. Maybe I can find a reptile heater pad locally, perhaps @ Pet Smart.


Yes. I went to Petco. I use a gauge for temp. and humidity and the pad keeps the heat regulated nicely.


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## Krissim Klaw (Feb 27, 2013)

I've had a lot of luck with crickets as my core feeder. I have a breeder tank of crickets and at any time can pull freshly hatched nymphs to adults to feed. There is no need to order anything or run to the store and since I am raising them I can be assured of what sort of living conditions they are coming from. I've been curious to try the banded crickets Ghann's cricket farm has recently switched over too to see how they do.

In addition to crickets I also try to feed a variety of other feeders. I do wild caught. I also have used house flies and blue bottle flies. I enjoy the flies but I'm not keen on having to order them so often. can you extend the shelf life of them by ordering spikes versus pupae? My main problem is I only have a handful of mantises at any time and every time I have gotten pupae a huge portion goes bad before I have time to feed it. It seems they only last a month or so in the fridge before they start to perish if you don't hatch them out.


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