# About the vivarium



## MingMing (Jun 18, 2009)

Ok, as I stole Tonys post to discuss the idea of making a larger one for several mantis....

So far I only got some prices:

Tank- 90 usd homemade by a guy my dad knows

Special light bulb - 50 usd from any aquarium

Special lamp - 40 usd from any aquarium

The thing that makes mist 30 usd from the tarantula breeder

The thing that purifies the water and is used for turtles and is also gonna work as the rain - 30 usd from the tarantula breeder

The clock that turns the mist and the rain on and off every 10 mins for 30 seconds - 15 usd in radioshack or steren

And I still gotta find ALOT of prices... I need to check how much is gonna be for the good quality plastic flowers, the rocks o the lower bart, I need to check how im going to decorate it... design the landscape, everything.... sounds fun though... and well I got nothing else to do, so why not



PhilinYuma said:


> Hold on, fellas!! I don't know how you've been calculating but as far as I know, a 100x40x60 cm tank would contain 240 liters and a 100x50x60 cm tank would contain 450 liters. So while it's big, it's not 2400 liters, which is enormous. You're quite right, of course, Tony. Orin is always supposed to check my math, but I guess that this time, he was too busy. Good news for Ming Ming!
> 
> The advice about marriage ceremonies getting easier with practice, is quite true though.


LOL Its still wrong, a tank of 100x40x60 would have 240 liters and for the tank of 100x50x60, 300 liters. We all need some math classes hu?


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## MingMing (Jun 18, 2009)

Oh about the rain... there is this thing that can just be left all day long on, it works for 15 minutes everytime you want, you can set it however you can... so I might maye it work for 15 mins every 2 hours or maybe for 10 seconds every 10 mins not sure yes (that would be for the rain and the mist)

Im gonna take a pic of it once I get it to explain how all the buttoms work


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## tonyi (Jun 18, 2009)

ming ming said:


> Oh about the rain... there is this thing that can just be left all day long on, it works for 15 minutes everytime you want, you can set it however you can... so I might maye it work for 15 mins every 2 hours or maybe for 10 seconds every 10 mins not sure yes (that would be for the rain and the mist)Im gonna take a pic of it once I get it to explain how all the buttoms work


Again, a 15 minute timer will completely soak your vivarium. You have to have substrate that drains really, really well or it will make a mess of everything. Having rain every 2 hours, plus mist, is too much for any plant, except the semi-aquatic ones (i.e., Anubias, Java Moss, etc.). A few seconds per day is what most vivariums have and it's more than enough to sustain most tropical plants.


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 18, 2009)

Tony said:


> Again, a 15 minute timer will completely soak your vivarium. You have to have substrate that drains really, really well or it will make a mess of everything. Having rain every 2 hours, plus mist, is too much for any plant, except the semi-aquatic ones (i.e., Anubias, Java Moss, etc.). A few seconds per day is what most vivariums have and it's more than enough to sustain most tropical plants.


See, Ming Ming? Toldyaso!  It might be a good idea to get one of those little cigar humidor humidity meters and check what's going on inside the enclosure. What humidity are they in now? With all that spraying, you'd be at 100%RH all the time and start growing mold on the fake plants and walls.


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## tonyi (Jun 18, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> See, Ming Ming? Toldyaso!  It might be a good idea to get one of those little cigar humidor humidity meters and check what's going on inside the enclosure. What humidity are they in now? With all that spraying, you'd be at 100%RH all the time and start growing mold on the fake plants and walls.


Actually, the RH is not linked to mold. Humidity is not main problem with excessive misting. Saturation, on the other hand... A vivarium may develop some mold during its early stages but as the biological balance improves, this will disappear. Good ventilation is crucial, in my experience. I have a steady 85-99% humidity in my vivariums but I've never encountered mold. If you want a nice healthy viv, I recommend getting the full biological setup; live plants and introduce good numbers of beneficial invertebrates (woodlice and springtails). Then, after a month or so, a miniature ecosystem will have developed. That creates a buffer of a sorts. Springtails and woodlice deal with decaying plant matter and will eat any small patches of mold before you even notice them.


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## d17oug18 (Jun 18, 2009)

daaaaaaaaaaaamn if i ever make a viv im asking tony what needs to be done lol, haha. the knowledge around the world amazes me sometimes


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## MingMing (Jun 18, 2009)

d17oug18 said:


> daaaaaaaaaaaamn if i ever make a viv im asking tony what needs to be done lol, haha. the knowledge around the world amazes me sometimes


lol I know... I want Tony to be my guru lol...

I know... but isnt it too hard to make a whole ecosystem in there? I mean I was thinking about the fake plants lol, but ur right, maybe real plants, real insects and real stuff in there would be awesome  I need to get informed about it... Ill see if I can find the insects... I want to make a micro jungle  wouldnt that be awesome?


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## hierodula (Jun 23, 2009)

Im also want to do what Tony is did,so I got a terrarium on craigslist ( its 2ft by 2ft by 4ft tall) Im going to use it to house I ooths worth of Rhomberda Sp. I got a lamp for heat, and a light that gives of those natural proteins, and those huge sticks. For substate, I was going to put soil ,plant live plants, and cover the rest with moss(open ground with moss). Im stuck on the misting system. Someone told me maybe I should use a humidifier and attach a hose nozzle to the end. of course id have to extend the pipe. I have a couple q's. Do you think the tank will be big enough? and what organism should be my decomposer? :huh:


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## MingMing (Jun 23, 2009)

hierodula said:


> Im also want to do what Tony is did,so I got a terrarium on craigslist ( its 2ft by 2ft by 4ft tall) Im going to use it to house I ooths worth of Rhomberda Sp. I got a lamp for heat, and a light that gives of those natural proteins, and those huge sticks. For substate, I was going to put soil ,plant live plants, and cover the rest with moss(open ground with moss). Im stuck on the misting system. Someone told me maybe I should use a humidifier and attach a hose nozzle to the end. of course id have to extend the pipe. I have a couple q's. Do you think the tank will be big enough? and what organism should be my decomposer? :huh:


Actually you can get the lil mist machine in almost every pet store. I live in a place where noone is interested in reptiles, BUT I found the mist maker in an aquarium and the guy told me it was pretty common, mostly for people that have iguanas or just turtles


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 23, 2009)

hierodula said:


> Im also want to do what Tony is did,so I got a terrarium on craigslist ( its 2ft by 2ft by 4ft tall) Im going to use it to house I ooths worth of Rhomberda Sp. I got a lamp for heat, and a light that gives of those natural proteins, and those huge sticks. For substate, I was going to put soil ,plant live plants, and cover the rest with moss(open ground with moss). Im stuck on the misting system. Someone told me maybe I should use a humidifier and attach a hose nozzle to the end. of course id have to extend the pipe. I have a couple q's. Do you think the tank will be big enough? and what organism should be my decomposer? :huh:


O.K.

You can't raise mantids in an emvironment like Tony's; he doesn't. The terrarium is in ballance and self sustaining, with one mantis as top predator and introduced flies. It looks as though you want to make a "natural" looking mantis cage.

Your enclosure is about 16 times the size of the 12" (30cm) cube that most people that I know, including me, use until we place the nymphs in individual pots

Early this year, MacroJunkie, a member here and administrator of his own forum, placed two Rhombodera basalis (is that the species you are going to raise?) ooths in a 12" cube and hatched about 400 nymphs. After a calender month he was down to 40 nymphs, which is par for the course. You are likely to have twenty or less. Certainly they will have plenty of room, but I'm not sure how they will find their food without a GPS.

It looks as though you plan on raising them together as a community. I couldn't find the thread, but recently, Katnapper was asked by Schloaty if the species is a good community mantis. Her answer was "no," same as mine. They eat anything that moves, and if that happens to be a brother or sister, that's the way it goes.

I suggest that you read up as much as you can on raising this species. They are very impressive and easily raised in individual pots. Good luck.


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## hierodula (Jun 24, 2009)

thanks Phil  but i dont have enough cages for individual housing. Ill wait until there are fewer and after they molt and then seperate them


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## tonyi (Jun 24, 2009)

hierodula said:


> Im also want to do what Tony is did,so I got a terrarium on craigslist ( its 2ft by 2ft by 4ft tall) Im going to use it to house I ooths worth of Rhomberda Sp. I got a lamp for heat, and a light that gives of those natural proteins, and those huge sticks. For substate, I was going to put soil ,plant live plants, and cover the rest with moss(open ground with moss). Im stuck on the misting system. Someone told me maybe I should use a humidifier and attach a hose nozzle to the end. of course id have to extend the pipe. I have a couple q's. Do you think the tank will be big enough? and what organism should be my decomposer? :huh:


Raising mantids from the ooth stage in a vivarium like mine presents a few pretty steep challenges. First of all you'll have a predator overload when the nymphs have hatched. I think they'll probably eradicate the microfauna used to maintain the balance. Second, you'll have a waste overload. The natural processes in the vivarium won't be able to cope with hundreds of bodies and body parts from half-eaten flies and mantids. There's a risk these body parts will start to mold.

As for the light "that gives proteins", the only light that does that is UV light. And as far as I know, mantids cannot make use of that light. It will however, create a LOT of difficulties since you'll either have to put it inside the vivarium where it will most likely burn dozens of nymhps to death or you'll have to have an opening in the cover glass that will disrupt the humidity and dry out the viv. UV light is not worth the effort if you don't have creatures that really need it (i.e. reptiles in most cases).

As for decomposer organisms, a combination of woodlice and springtails are the most common solution. You can probably find both of these in your surroundings. But whereas woodlice are easy to gather, springtails can be a bit more difficult to collect, depending on the circumstances. They are often available on mail order, check websites in your country/area that cater to vivarium keepers.


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## hierodula (Jun 30, 2009)

Tony said:


> As for decomposer organisms, a combination of woodlice and springtails are the most common solution. You can probably find both of these in your surroundings. But whereas woodlice are easy to gather, springtails can be a bit more difficult to collect, depending on the circumstances. They are often available on mail order, check websites in your country/area that cater to vivarium keepers.


yeah, i was searching on the web and i thought id order from bugs in cyber space.com. they have this decomposer kit.


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## broderickgil (Sep 19, 2009)

I'm wanting to build a tropical vivarium for a Hymenopus coronatus,do you guys have any idea of what kind of plants, substrate,light source,water source, decomposers, filtration,and ventilation I should use please help me


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