# Assistance with Nymphs and Buying Mantds



## Gongylus (Oct 2, 2017)

Hello, I'm rather new to keeping mantids and actually got into the hobby through four assorted _Hierodula _nymphs that were gifted to me.

However, two of these recently died, and I'm trying to figure out why. I kept these two in separate enclosures that were kept fairly humid  and had live plant growth. I suspect that these two (L5 and L4 nymphs) were _Hierodula venosa_ or a similar species, based on the striped pattern of their legs. I fed them regularly fruit flies (_Drosphilia melanogaster_) which were bought from PetCo. Can somebody help me figure out what happened to them, so that I may prevent my two other mantids from dying? My remaining two are most likely _H. membranacea _and are kept in similar habitats. They are both     L2-3 nymphs.  

As for the buying part of this topic, what would be a good species to buy, and where from? I was looking at _Blepharopsis mendica_, but am sort of afraid of keeping them, as they require a specific humidity level. Are there any other species that may be better to keep? I'm looking to avoid invasives such as _Tenodera sinensis_ and _Mantis religiosa_.

Thanks, 

Gongylus


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## Connor (Oct 2, 2017)

Welcome to the forum. Some good starters are the giant African mantis, ghosts and giant Asian mantis. As far as B. Mendica they aren't that difficult to keep and are really awesome! I keep mine at around 95 degrees F and give a very slight mist every other week.

Im not sure why your 2 nymphs died... I would need some more detail to try and figure that out.


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## Gongylus (Oct 2, 2017)

Thank you for the reply! I may be able to take pictures of their habitats and perhaps a corpse if that would help. My room usually hovers at ~75 F but gets to around 85 sometimes.


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## Connor (Oct 2, 2017)

Temperatures seem fine. Pics would help


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## Gongylus (Oct 2, 2017)

Here's some pictures of the L5:

















Here's some of its habitat. Sorry about the quality on these:


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## Connor (Oct 2, 2017)

Are those little white chunks fertilizer? That probably didnt do the mantis any good. Did you notice any odd behaviors before they died? Does the enclosure have any holes for oxygen to get in and out? My best guess for their death would be the fertilizer if that's in there or a bacterial infection(are common with low ventilation and high humidity)


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## Gongylus (Oct 2, 2017)

Those little white chunks are just bits of small bits of minerals, but those green balls are fertilizer. It seems harmless, as I doubt that they were eating them.

As for ventilation, yes, I had stabbed/poked several holes throughout the lids of both containers.  

Also, are those pics good enough to confirm/deny the _Hierodula _ID, if not the species? It was ~15-18mm long.


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## Connor (Oct 2, 2017)

Well the fertilizer could probably muck up the air... hmm looks like some high humidity in one of the pics so it could have just been a common bacterial infection or if there were any parasites/bacteria in the dirt which looks like it's from outside. I have never kept Hierodula so I wouldn't know sorry.


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## Gongylus (Oct 2, 2017)

Thanks anyways! The dirt is actually just from some garden soil I had laying around.  I was worried about humidity, too.


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## hibiscusmile (Oct 3, 2017)

I did not read all the answers, the food was not enough to warrant them living to long, as they needed bigger food. hydei is good

for new nymphs but after 2nd instar they need house flies or small crickets. feeding ff all their lives is not good. I would

also not use a lot of moisture, this species does not need it. the mendica do not need high moisture either, as they are

a desert species. Any dirt with chemicals should be avoided, using dirt from outside is sure steps to poisoning them.


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## Sarah K (Oct 3, 2017)

I agree with @hibiscusmile. That mantis is WAY TOO BIG for just melanogaster fruit flies. It probably starved to death.   

Also from the pictures , the habitat does not look like it has a lot of space between the lid and the substrate....Also, can you add a picture of the lid? I question how much ventilation the enclosure has.


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## Rick (Oct 3, 2017)

How tall is that container?


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## Kermit (Oct 3, 2017)

As mentioned... Time to change everything...

Bigger flies: house flies, blue bottle, particularly after L3 not a problem with this larger species. Agree with Sarah the bigger species struggle to catch smaller prey and if they manage it's not nearly enough. Melanogaster flies are good for most species for their first or second feeding, or much smaller species. They should be moved up to Hydei fruit flies thereafter, then house flies, and many need more substance available from green and  a blue bottle flies as they grow... all very dependant on the species again. You generally can tell if a mantis is eating enough by the size and shape of the abdomen. Flat = hungry to starving; all the way up to bulging and round which means full and or building an ootheca (egg sack).

Ventilation is WAY more important than " constant" humidity. You can mist a couple times a week and be fine, but a couple of holes poked in the top can cause a few issues. Specifically mold, Bacteria and lack of fresh air. Appropriate lid surface for "gripping" to safely Molt is also extremely important.

Your container is DEFINITELY not tall enough. Taller, vs wider is the key. Otherwise later instars will experience high Mis-molts instances.  Container hight = 3x mantis length. Again glue sticks, or add net or fabric to lid for safer molting results.

Ditch the dirt! Who knows what's in there... Correct they won't eat fertilizer but it will affect pH and air quality.

Opinions vary on preferred substrate, but I'm 100% for the simple, basic, easy to clean and replace PAPERTOWL.

Temps- high 70's to low 90's are typical safe ranges, however also very species dependant. Your species should be fine in the range mentioned.

Make these changes and save your remaining PM's ??

Kermit ?


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## Gongylus (Oct 3, 2017)

I realize I said _D. melanogaster_ -- they were _D. hydei_. Whoops.


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## Kermit (Oct 3, 2017)

Your L5 needs green or Blue Bottle flies


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## Gongylus (Oct 3, 2017)

I do have some pictures of the lid,  although they aren't the best quality. I didn't have an opportunity to really set up something for them until they arrived, so these were just something I made quickly. As for the space between the lid and dirt, it was only around two or so inches.


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## Gongylus (Oct 3, 2017)

Kermit said:


> Opinions vary on preferred substrate, but I'm 100% for the simple, basic, easy to clean and replace PAPERTOWL.


I have some coconut fiber substrate, will this work?


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## Gongylus (Oct 3, 2017)

Sarah K said:


> That mantis is WAY TOO BIG for just melanogaster fruit flies. It probably starved to death.


Really? A few days prior I'd actually fed it around 15-20 that basically jumped out.


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## Connor (Oct 3, 2017)

Lid doesn't seem like it has enough ventilation. I would poke holes in the side of the box itself. 2 inches of space it TINY. You need a lot of vertical space for mantis. Rule of thumb is 3 times the length of the mantis. You could possibly turn the container so it sits vertically... you also need something for them to molt on. So like some sort of fabric or netting. Coco fiber would work perfect but the fact is you had way too much humidity. If the nymphs were L3-4  then hydei are fine. Anything older than that and you want to move up to BB flies.


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## Gongylus (Oct 3, 2017)

Thank you so much for your assistance. I'm trying to get my hands on some deli cups, and will definitely ventilate more.

I also have a small cricket keeper, may this work?


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## Connor (Oct 3, 2017)

Yeah I've heard of people using cricket keepers. But you still need something for them to molt on.


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## Kermit (Oct 3, 2017)

Gongylus said:


> I have some coconut fiber substrate, will this work?


Yes


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