# When you pay for something and the good never show...



## themann42 (Apr 14, 2006)

i was just in the breeder feedback section, and have read a lot of bad things about some people. things like accepting money, never shipping goods, and then cutting off contact. isn't there something you could do legally if you were the person that was ripped off to get your money back?

i've been in the poison dart frog for a little while now, and you almost always have to find people online to buy from, much like mantids. but with pdf's, i've never seen so much bad feedback, every body seems to do really good business. all this bad feedback makes me wonder about ordering my mantids online. i'd like to place an order somewhere, but i'd like to know if things don't work out that i could get my money back.


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## Mantis Keeper (Apr 14, 2006)

There really isn't that much bad feedback, just for some reason those get posted more than when things go well. Trades and sales take place frequently and most of them go off without a problem.


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## infinity (Apr 14, 2006)

Honestly, that's what these forums are for... I personally could recommend many people- as I'm sure many of the people in here could... But as a general rule, the more positive feedbacks the person has, the better. Obviously people are going to make mistakes- might forget to post the order, pack a little badly resulting in deaths or maybe even send out the wrong species- but these things are easily rectified...

That's the problem with the *specialist* market- since there are few people who trade commercially in them, you tend to have to go for individual breeders- and of course you want some kind of 'insurance' - but honestly, with a small field such as the mantid field, a bad feedback could destroy a reputation - like ebay... so it's in their best interests to supply good service (hence why people often give *extras*.

As for specifics as to what can be done, obviously try to make contact, if they don't reply or worse, tell you tough luck, then leave bad feedback. As for legal/ bank problems - not much can really be done as these are individual people and generally not businesses and 'technically' sending bugs through the post isn't exactly legal, so few people would press the issue here. This is a problem that ebay has... they technically can't force the person to give back the money but they can ruin their reputation and prevent other sales. But no, legally, there's not much that can be done

However, if you're really worried, ask around for references or even send/ request a *tester* - i.e. ask for a cheaper species, send the money and see how prompt/ good condition the package arrives. If you get it and it's what you wanted, then consider that as an indication of the character/ reliability of that person.


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## Rick (Apr 14, 2006)

There isn't a lot of bad feedback posted here. Sometimes you get burned but that doesn't mean the majority of people here are gonna burn you. If you think you're going to have a bad experience everytime you try to buy a mantis from somebody here then find a different hobby. I bet your buying experience will be fine if you buy from somebody on this board. Or you could only buy from people with positive feedback.


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## themann42 (Apr 14, 2006)

thanks for the replies. well the person i wanted to order from is deshawn. i came across his website it looked like he runs a really nice business. nice website, lots of good feedback. then i came here and i read about people sending money and then never receiving anything. one person lost over $500! he'd cut off contact, and delete their negative feedback off his site. it just stinks because he has the mantids i want. maybe i just won't order. i'm in college so every dollar counts so i can't afford blowing money. thanks.


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## Rick (Apr 14, 2006)

> thanks for the replies. well the person i wanted to order from is deshawn. i came across his website it looked like he runs a really nice business. nice website, lots of good feedback. then i came here and i read about people sending money and then never receiving anything. one person lost over $500! he'd cut off contact, and delete their negative feedback off his site. it just stinks because he has the mantids i want. maybe i just won't order. i'm in college so every dollar counts so i can't afford blowing money. thanks.


Well then just don't order from him. Simple as that. Somebody else has or will have what you want. If they don't have it now they will. Sometimes in this hobby you have to wait awhile to get the one you want.


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## Ian (Apr 14, 2006)

I am going to say now, that this thread should not be made into a public discussion on what people think about other breeders. Keep all opinions to PM. However, contradicting myself slightly here, I would just like to add that Deshawn did go through a rough patch last year, where a few orders were passed, however, I believe now, that all have been sorted out. I have done many trades/purchases with Deshawn, and vice versa, problem free. Not only that, he is a nice guy. But, I will leave you to make your own decision on the matter.

It is no problem asking what people do when a deal turns bad, but any more personal comments, and this topic will be locked.


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## themann42 (Apr 14, 2006)

fair enough. i wouldn't want this thread to turn into just a bunch of opinions on breeders either. i haven't decided what i am going to do yet. it did seem like most of the non arrivals were older news. i've read recently of somebody ordering from deshawn and the order went fine. i'd like to take this as a hint to good business again, and i'd like it myself if i ordered some mantids and was able to post a good review. thanks guys.


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## Ian (Apr 15, 2006)

No problem. As stated above, you will find pretty much all the guys on this forum great to deal with


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