# Decimiana bolivari IGM No 162



## tier

Hi

Again, a friend of mine gave a very rare and great looking species to me.

It's from Paraguay.

_Decimiana bolivari_





regards


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## leviatan

Wow, really nice species! You have more than this 2, wright?


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## ismart

Very nice indeed!


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## ABbuggin

Very cool.  How many do you have?


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## hibiscusmile

Hi Tier, a type of boxer? :blink:


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## tier

Hi

Thanks all.

No, it's no boxing species. They are one of the famous Acanthopidae, resp. Acanthopinae. They look similar like _Acanthops_ or _Metilia_, the adult females are overwhelming, one of my "must have" mantids.

They are in stock pretty new. There are also _Acanthops_ sp. in stock in germany right now, looking similar. But for all who have the _Acanthops_ sp.: You have somethinmg else, you don't have to call your _Acanthops_ sp. _Decimiana bolivari _now. The _Acanthops _sp. from Venezuela are IGM No. 151 and not No. 162.

Yes, I have more than these two. It should be enough to breed another generation, time will tell.

regards


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## revmdn

Very cool.


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## chrisnoahdana

revmdn said:


> Very cool.


 hey I think frey sent me a pic of these he said he had for sale???


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## massaman

wonder what the adults would look like!


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## tier

Chrisp said:


> hey I think frey sent me a pic of these he said he had for sale???


Yes, he has everything. _Metalliticus splendidus, Decimiana bolivari _and so on. But there is no chance he really has them. I know all people keeping them, and all people offering or selling them.

He is only selling the rarest, most expensive species. But he has never seen one of them for real.

He is selling the most expensive species for the cheapest price.

But he has never seen one of this species in his life.

I will post something to his (two) breeder feedback(s) tomorrow I guess.

Do not discuss about this subject in my photo thread. But be sure: Frey is not keeping the species Decimiana bolivari. No chance. I believe he is telling you such bullshit, as he seems to be way to smart to post all his lies public, he swithced to fooling you all via pm. Be aware and send all messages from Frey to Peter. Peter will check it seriously. I already warned you, but again: Don't let him fool you!!!

edit: The pic he sent you must be stolen, too!


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## Katnapper

Best of luck to you, Tier, to breed this species.


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## massaman

they look very good!


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## tier

Katnapper said:


> Best of luck to you, Tier, to breed this species.


Don't think this will be a problem ;-)

The nymphs have an age where it is possible to detect the sex. I have enough pairs...

But thanks, honey.


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## ismart

Tier, what instar are yours currently?


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## tier

I don't know ecactly. Something like L4-presub I guess. The oldest nymphs are femlales, I guess they are presub, around 2.2cm or something like that. I have heard they have a size of 4cm when adult, so it should be presub.


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## ismart

Wow! Yours are big already! Very cool!  Cant wait to see them with there wings. Good luck in mating them!


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## brancsikia

ismart said:


> Wow! Yours are big already! Very cool!  Cant wait to see them with there wings. Good luck in mating them!  --------------------
> 
> Current collection:
> 
> Hymenopus coronatus, Pseudocreobotra wahlbergii, Rhombodera sp., Phyllocrania paradoxa, Acromantis formosana, Phyllovates chlorophea, Stagmomantis limbata, Pseudoharpax virescen, Tenodera sinensis, Tenodera angustipennis, Gongylus gongylodes, Deroplatys desiccata, Parasphendale agrionina, Miomantis paykullii, *Decimiana bolivari* Other critters: Parcoblatta lata, Brachypelma smithi, Grammostola rosea


hi ismart,

you mention D. bolivari in your current collection. Are you sure it is this species? I cannot believe because they were imported just recently and the first generation was available just a few weeks ago.

You might have IGM Nr. 151 that is Acanthops sp., completely different genus, maybe at a first glance similar appearance.

Numbers are useful and might avoid to mate different genera in the future... without success.

Cheers,

brancsikia


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## ismart

brancsikia said:


> hi ismart,you mention D. bolivari in your current collection. Are you sure it is this species? I cannot believe because they were imported just recently and the first generation was available just a few weeks ago.
> 
> You might have IGM Nr. 151 that is Acanthops sp., completely different genus, maybe at a first glance similar appearance.
> 
> Numbers are useful and might avoid to mate different genera in the future... without success.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> brancsikia


Hey brancsikia,

I don't think mine are a Acanthops sp. I don't think anybody in the US has Acanthops sp. yet? Here are some pic's. Sorry about the horrible quality.


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## brancsikia

ismart said:


> Hey brancsikia,I don't think mine are a Acanthops sp. I don't think anybody in the US has Acanthops sp. yet? Here are some pic's. Sorry about the horrible quality.


Hi ismart,

of course you are right. You have _Decimiana bolivari_ IGM No. 162

Good luck!

Brancsikia







_D. bolivari_ just after hatching


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## ismart

Nice pic!


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## tier

Hi

First girl matured, a dark one:

















regards


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## ismart

Cool!  So that is what the females look like as adults. Have any of your males reached adulthood yet? And if so do you have any pic's?


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## yen_saw

Congrate on the adult female! I have problem sexing this species too even at L5/L6 i will take some pics and ask for your help tier.


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## ismart

yen_saw said:


> Congrate on the adult female! I have problem sexing this species too even at L5/L6 i will take some pics and ask for your help tier.


+1 I think i have all females?


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## tier

Hi

No, the males are (pre)sub now. Terra-Typica has some nice pictures.

I will help with sexing. Don't worry, I will take pictures of mediums sized boys and girls tonight or tomorrow.

regards


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## ismart

tier said:


> HiNo, the males are (pre)sub now. Terra-Typica has some nice pictures.
> 
> I will help with sexing. Don't worry, I will take pictures of mediums sized boys and girls tonight or tomorrow.
> 
> regards


Great! Cant wait! Thanks tier!


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## sufistic

This species is beautiful. Good luck with them tier!


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## revmdn

Very nice, congrats.


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## Katnapper

revmdn said:


> Very nice, congrats.


+1


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## tier

Hi

Here are your pics, Yen.









Please note the ratio from the 6th to the 7th segment of the male: Both have the same size.

Now note the ratio from the 6th female's segment to the "nothing real" structure of the female: The 6th segment is much bigger than this "nothing real" structure. So both sexes do look like males.

regards,

tier


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## revmdn

Good eye. Very subtle diffs.


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## ismart

Great comparison pic's tier!  I'm going to take another look at mine, when i get home today!


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## hibiscusmile

They are really handsome mantis, thanks for all the pics Tier!


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## yen_saw

tier said:


> HiHere are your pics, Yen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please note the ratio from the 6th to the 7th segment of the male: Both have the same size.
> 
> Now note the ratio from the 6th female's segment to the "nothing real" structure of the female: The 6th segment is much bigger than this "nothing real" structure. So both sexes do look like males.
> 
> regards,
> 
> tier


Cool! Thanks tier for showing the pics it would be great help. The 'nothing real' section is interesting


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## Chien_Ming Lee

They are special mantids!


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## brancsikia

tier said:


> HiHere are your pics, Yen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please note the ratio from the 6th to the 7th segment of the male: Both have the same size.
> 
> Now note the ratio from the 6th female's segment to the "nothing real" structure of the female: The 6th segment is much bigger than this "nothing real" structure. So both sexes do look like males.
> 
> regards,
> 
> tier


Tier you missed the first segment (maybe too much beer when you numbered the picture?)

Subadult male before final mould (see wing pads):







Cheers


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## tier

Oh, really. Thanks. Yes, beer, sure. But the end of the abdomen is the important area. Anyway, your picture is much better and more precise, your arrows too 

regards


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## yen_saw

brancsikia said:


> Tier you missed the first segment (maybe too much beer when you numbered the picture?)Subadult male before final mould (see wing pads):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers


Thanks brancsikia for the details i can see the differences in my stock now.


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## ismart

yen_saw said:


> Thanks brancsikia for the details i can see the differences in my stock now.


Yep! I have all females! :lol: Help Yen! :lol:


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## yen_saw

ismart said:


> Yep! I have all females! :lol: Help Yen! :lol:


 Aww bummer!! i have 2 males.... i think


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## sufistic

This species is beautiful. It looks like a dead leaf Orchid mantis.


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## ismart

yen_saw said:


> Aww bummer!! i have 2 males.... i think


Some how i'm not surprised! :lol: No worries, i'm sure we can manage something!


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## yen_saw

ismart said:


> Some how i'm not surprised! :lol: No worries, i'm sure we can manage something!


they are adult now Paul  , when your female martured let me know.


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## ismart

You got it! Thanks yen!


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## [email protected]

So cool!!! B)


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## hibiscusmile

They are so neat looking, the last pic looks like the D. desiccata back end.


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## yen_saw

Thanks Rebecca, yea, which is why they are also called South American dead leaf mantis.


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## tier

Next to 50 other south american species, like _Brancsikia_ spp..


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## Christian

_Brancsikia_ is a Madagascan genus...


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## tier

Ooops. Good to know 

Thanks


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## yen_saw

tier said:


> Next to 50 other south american species, like _Brancsikia_ spp..


you mean _Acanthops spp. _right


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## tier

To be honest, I really thought of _Brancsikia_ beeing a South American genus. Stupid me ;-)

But I am sure there are still 49 ather "South American dead leaf species" left over there  Ok, _Choeradodis_ is more a "alive" leaf


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## tier

Hi

Here is the 2,3 breeding group. The first female is subadult since yesterday, the oldest male is presub. The two younger females are also presub, and the youngest male is one instar younger. In this special case, the males are the bright ones while the females are the dark ones.









regards


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## ismart

Nice tomatoes! :lol:


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## Ricky Ortiz

Wow these guys are very cool looking..... How do I get my hands on a pair :lol:


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## yen_saw

tier said:


> Hi
> 
> Here is the 2,3 breeding group. The first female is subadult since yesterday, the oldest male is presub. The two younger females are also presub, and the youngest male is one instar younger. In this special case, the males are the bright ones while the females are the dark ones.


Nice pics! For some reason my females are always darker while males are lighter in color.

Pair them up recently, male is really rough trying to get on the female. I was terrified!! thought the female will fight back but on both occasion the female didn't attack. But once connected everything is alright and they even let me take a few pics


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## [email protected]

Great job!!! Just had barks do the same thing yesterday.


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## ismart

Very nice work yen!  I'll be sending you a couple of girlies this week.


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## yen_saw

Thanks guys. Paul, as agreed i will send you the adult male instead. One of the females finally laid an ooth that looks like a bean string :blink: pretty neat.


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## ismart

yen_saw said:


> Thanks guys. Paul, as agreed i will send you the adult male instead. One of the females finally laid an ooth that looks like a bean string :blink: pretty neat.


Sweet! B) Thanks yen!  His services will be greatly appreciated.


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## yen_saw

About 18 nymphs hatched from the first ooth.......





Bean string shaoe ooth





This male is not so happy when i took him out of the cage. He wants to stay with the female. but i am sure he is now happy as Paul has some cool females for him


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## ismart

Those are some great pics yen!  Stud-muffin has already mated 3 out of 4 females and is still going strong! My first string bean was laid a few days ago! :lol:


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## tier

Hi

That is very very great to hear! Congrats to both of you! That means soon people in USA can choose between _Acanthops_ sp. and _Decimiana bolivari_ 

Great!

have a good time,

Stefan


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## yen_saw

ismart said:


> Those are some great pics yen!  Stud-muffin has already mated 3 out of 4 females and is still going strong! My first string bean was laid a few days ago! :lol:


Congrate Paul!!  one more to go! The first ooth from my second female hatched about 22 nymphs so both females are bred 


tier said:


> Hi
> 
> That is very very great to hear! Congrats to both of you! That means soon people in USA can choose between _Acanthops_ sp. and _Decimiana bolivari_
> 
> Great!
> 
> have a good time,
> 
> Stefan


 Thanks Stephen. Best of luck to you too i am sure you have no problem with this species.


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## ismart

tier said:


> Hi
> 
> That is very very great to hear! Congrats to both of you! That means soon people in USA can choose between _Acanthops_ sp. and _Decimiana bolivari_
> 
> Great!
> 
> have a good time,
> 
> Stefan


Thanks Stefan! Things are looking good for this species.



yen_saw said:


> Congrate Paul!!  one more to go! The first ooth from my second female hatched about 22 nymphs so both females are bred


This is great news yen! This means stud muffin is not sterile :lol: I have now just one more female to breed!


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## tier

Hi





regards


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## Pelle

Ouch! :lol:


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## revmdn

Ouch is right.


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## tier

Ouchy Ouchy Ouch Ouch


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## yen_saw

Why the sacrifice?


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## tier

Hi Yen

The _Decimiana_ nymph was bit by another _Decimiana_ nymph. The bitten one was thrown on the ground afterwards, with a deadly wound in the neck. So I gave it to a very tiny _Idolomantis_ although this food may be dangerous for _Idolomantis_.

regards,

Stefan


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## marianne13

The photo shows us that Idolomantis can eat the other thing than the flying preys.

You he in given in force-feeding or she(it) him in caught only?


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## yeatzee

You use a ring flash?


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## tier

Hi

I used foreceps to hand-feed, Marianna13. How about your Deciomiana? How they are doing in Belgium?

No, yeatzee, I have no ring-flash, only the small included flash of the EOS400. Well, I have taken the picture inside the glass-enclosure with lamps above it, maybe these lights cause the impression.

regards,

Stefan


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## marianne13

Hello stefan, my Decimiana are well and are together since you sent them to me.

I have not seen mating(coupling), not still a heavyweight(laying,eggs) yet either

He(It) not it in more than to wait and to hope


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## tier

Hi

Here is a dark male and a brighter female:





regards,

Stefa


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## naeff002

those are great pics, beautiful animals


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## hibiscusmile

I believe I have this species, I will try to take pic tomorrow for confirmation from you guys. Right now it is looking like I have only one male and too many girls, just all turning adult, anyone got some males for trade if it is same species?


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## hibiscusmile

Hummm, after checking the other photos again, I am sure it is same, but will post pic, hope there are males around.


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## ismart

There are three different species in culture here in the US. Decimiana bolivari, Acanthops sp. And Acanthops parafalcata. All three of these species look very similar in appearance. Rebecaa, do you know who you got them from. Posting a picture may prove to be futile!


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## hibiscusmile

yes took pic today, to tired to post though, tomorrow,,,, from poland or germany, I have to look.


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## Christian

Hi.

_Acanthops_ sp. and "_A. parafalcata"_ are the same species. Despite of my apply to the respective persons not to use_ parafalcata_ as a specific name, the species with the IGM number 151 is continuously sold under that name.

Greets,

C.


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## ismart

Christian said:


> Hi.
> 
> _Acanthops_ sp. and "_A. parafalcata"_ are the same species. Despite of my apply to the respective persons not to use_ parafalcata_ as a specific name, the species with the IGM number 151 is continuously sold under that name.
> 
> Greets,
> 
> C.


Thanks for clearing that up!  And here i thought there were 3 different species here. I would have felt pretty stupid buying _A. parafalcata_ when i already have _Acanthops sp._ :lol: What i don't understand is why people choose to change names around, when the species has yet to be properly identified? For the record. I own both _Decimiana bolivari_ IGM number 162, and _Acanthops sp._ IGM number 151. So for all of those that i sold _D. bolivari_ to. If i had not mentioned the IGM number? That is what they are. I don't want anyone to get confused.


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## Christian

That species was preliminarily IDed as _parafalcata_, but there are still some inconsistencies when compared to the original description, so that name shouldn't be used until this is cleared up. Personally, after seeing a lot of specimens and doing several genitalia preparations, I don't think this is _parafalcata_. Even taxonomists sometimes don't agree.


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## ismart

Well, if no agreement, or proper ID can be made at this time. Then _Acanthops sp._ IGM number 151 sounds good to me! :lol:  

Christian, please keep us informed if any new developments/agreements are made?


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## Christian

Well, I am little bit off the (western) world for the next years, but if I will get news on this I will post them.


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## ismart

Christian said:


> Well, I am little bit off the (western) world for the next years, but if I will get news on this I will post them.


Thanks!


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## hibiscusmile

Well here are mine, what are they?
































Can't stand the suspence, going to bed!


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## hibiscusmile

I gotta tell you, really doesn't matter what they are, I love em! quickly becoming my fav and all along they were really spectacular looking and I could hardly wait to see the finished product :tt2:


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## hibiscusmile

Oh thanks! they look like Yens, only I like his color of his female,,,,, lets see where did I put that pay slip....yaw, yaw... Germany


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## tier

Hi

These are the _Acanthops_ sp., not the _Decimiana bolivari_.

regards


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## ismart

tier said:


> Hi
> 
> These are the _Acanthops_ sp., not the _Decimiana bolivari_.
> 
> regards


+1!


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## yen_saw

+2

Left IGM 162, right IGM 151

Edit: Both adult male


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## naeff002

are they the same sex


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## ismart

naeff002 said:


> are they the same sex


Yes!


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## hibiscusmile

Well good to know, I love the looks of them anyways! especialy the girls, with their little wings running up the upright butts! gotta love em! thanks guys!


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