# Empusa...



## Kruszakus (Nov 12, 2008)

Hi!

I have Empusa sp. and all nymphs are pre-sub. I heard from Christian that European species (E. fasciata, E. pennata) should be overwintered when they are sub-adult. But from many other sources the imput was that they could easily be ready for overwintering one molt earlier than sub-adult...

Well, how should I proceed?


----------



## Borya (Nov 12, 2008)

Good evening.

I have two _E.fasciata_ from WC ootheca and it looks like they don't need a cold period. They grow just like any other species. Now they are L4 and L5. I feed them only on flying insects, mostly on different species of Drosophila. When it was warm, caught small leafhoppers and midges. Also I use Sera Terra UV lamp.


----------



## kakistos (Nov 12, 2008)

I heard and think they do need a cold period when sub-adult. But I think you are already to late, because they are already subadult with you, but they did not get the apropriate cues to tell them it's almost winter. That would be decreasing duration of daylight and decreasing temperature.

They will survive without a cold period, but I think it will do them no real good. They are evolved to have the cold resting period.


----------



## Kruszakus (Nov 12, 2008)

kakistos said:


> I heard and think they do need a cold period when sub-adult. But I think you are already to late, because they are already subadult with you, but they did not get the apropriate cues to tell them it's almost winter. That would be decreasing duration of daylight and decreasing temperature.They will survive without a cold period, but I think it will do them no real good. They are evolved to have the cold resting period.


Are you reffering to me?

Because I received mine yesterday - and they are already two weeks deep into diapause.

They are pre-sub, but I think that this species faces colder period when one, two molts before adult, so I'm comnfident nothing bad will happen (I even recall Yen keeping his at pre-sub for just one moth and still doing fine). They were kept without lamps - only daylight, and now in Poland it means about 9 hours of bright light and 14-16C, as opposed to 15-16 hours during summer time and temperarures reaching 28C.

This is what it looks like.







By the way - I do not think that L5 is not too late for a diapause with Empusa.


----------



## kakistos (Nov 13, 2008)

Ok I am sorry, I assumed the wrong things! My apologies.

But then I do not get why you ask " How should I proceed?". Because it seems to me that everything is right, the nymphs got the apropriate cues and are now in diapause. So keep the temperature low, keep same short day light-dark cycle and feed only a little bit of food now and then.

I should say I never had Empusa sp.


----------



## Kruszakus (Nov 13, 2008)

kakistos said:


> Ok I am sorry, I assumed the wrong things! My apologies.But then I do not get why you ask " How should I proceed?". Because it seems to me that everything is right, the nymphs got the apropriate cues and are now in diapause. So keep the temperature low, keep same short day light-dark cycle and feed only a little bit of food now and then.
> 
> I should say I never had Empusa sp.


Ater taking a close look at their coxa I've come to the conclusion that this is most likely E. fasciata  

The guy did not mention anything about short "light period" - if I haven't asked about how should I proceed, then I possibly would not have discovered this little tip  

I'll short down the light perion to 6-7 hours and keep on doing that for the next 6-7 weeks, maybe 8-9 for the males.


----------



## Morpheus uk (Nov 17, 2008)

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?sh...=7950&amp;st=20


----------



## Borya (Nov 17, 2008)

I tried to keep four of L2-3 at about +15*C in october and after two of them died put them back to room temperature with about 2 hours of UV per day and plenty of food, mostly Drosophilas. They molted and now they are L4 and L5.


----------



## Borya (Apr 16, 2009)

...and at the present moment they both are on last instar, eating voraciously up to 3 blue or green flies a day instead of at least one fly in 2-3 days during wintertime.


----------



## Borya (Apr 22, 2009)

Male molted to imago, but the wings aren't spread well. Being spread lengthwise completely, wings didn't fold on back and protrude aside.

Looks like this (friend's photo, same problem).





Similar thing happened to the winter generation of Hierodula grandis, who didn't get neither sunlight/UV-lamps nor wild-caught insects.

Maybe, 'Sera Terra UV' (which equals 'Repti-Glo 5') is not enough for this species.


----------



## yen_saw (Apr 22, 2009)

aww bummer. I fed Empusa almost exclusively flies and flying insect. Did you feed them cricket? They also need lot of heat a molt before adult, and more frequent misting too.


----------



## Kruszakus (Apr 22, 2009)

It can actually be helped - the trick is to watch them dry their wings on the lid, and then take the lid and place it so the mantid has its wings hanging in an almost vertical position. It worked well with my Empusa, but I had no fertile ooths - even though I fed them only flying insects...


----------



## Borya (Apr 24, 2009)

*yen_saw*, I feed them on 3 species of flies: Calliphora vomitoria, Eudasyphora cyanicolor, Lucilia sp. Before L4-5 they ate mostly drosophilas (D.virilis, D.melanogaster). I never give them crickets or any other non-flying insects.

*Kruszakus*, hmm...seems strange, other species molted on the lid many times and have their wings spread normally... He hung on a stick about 50* rake and his wings were quite vertically.

Hind leg's tibias are curved. I think this happen when the mantis is getting off his skin too slow, therefore having his legs in half-drawn bent position for long enough to harden. So, if he moves slow because of low temperature, then lack of heat may be the reason indeed.

I wonder why comparatively northern species like Empusa needs more heat than southern species like Hierodula, Sphodromantis etc.

Do Idolomantis and Zoolea, both Empusids, have their wings crumpled when lack of heat?


----------



## yen_saw (Apr 24, 2009)

Usually bad molting is resulted from lack of food and proper nutrition. blood failed to pump through the wing veins and strecth out the wings. Cold temperature slow down their system. Sorry i have no idea Borya you are feeding them right. I kept my Empusa at about 100-110F and they molted out alright.


----------



## Borya (Apr 28, 2009)

*yen_saw*, thank you for the information!

I have good news - female molted and spread perfectly. About one week before the final molt I put her to the greenhouse on the window-sill. Because of about 4 hours of sunlight a day, temperature was 85-100F at daytime, ~ 68F at night. Also, first 2-3 days she hung on the most sunny spot, and then moved to the leaves.


----------

