# I found one.... rather three!



## yeatzee (Jul 23, 2010)

This is an insect I've wanted to find all of my life... so needless to say im stoked. I plan on keeping them, and hopefully taking pictures soon. What fascinating creatures! I was under the impression they did not exist here, but I guess thats not true  

Anyone know info about them I could use, and how to sex em?


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## LauraMG (Jul 23, 2010)

I can't wait to see the pictures!


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## massaman (Jul 24, 2010)

there is a problem they need spiders to lay their eggs on when they mate if I am not mistaken and they dont lay ooths like mantids do as they lay eggs on a spider and they become a maggot and hatch out of a double coccoon.

here is a link to some info on it

Mantis Fly


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## Tomato (Jul 24, 2010)

Hey yeatzee, I've got a [i think] _Dicromantispa sayi_ that matured in captivity without me realizing it. Check out some of my posts, I named him Sensei. That's pretty amazing that you found three of them, they're supposedly pretty rare. How/where did you find them? Do you know any way to sex them? I have been watching mine carefully, been feeding him mostly long legged flies, but also leafhoppers and small moths. I don't know if I have a male or a female though. I have noticed that he will eat pretty much any live moving prey except for hymenopterans. No idea why. I tried to feed him an ant, tried feeding him a small bee, he always backs off defensively and bats at it with his claws. Maybe he smells the formic acid or something? He has killed a bluebottle which was bigger than him, though he could only eat about half of it. He'll drink water droplets like a mantis would. If you have three of them, I'd be concerned about keeping them together. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to eat each other.

Still, hopefully you have at least one male and one female. After they mate, you will need to provide a female spider for the larva to board. Probably best to keep the spider in a separate enclosure, as you don't want it to get eaten by the mantidflies. FEED THE SPIDER WELL, as you want her to lay nice juicy eggs, because these eggs will be food for the larva. Wow I can't believe you got three of them, lucky! You must fully document with as many pictures as possible any attempt you make at breeding them!

I'd say, be prepared to wing this one because I have looked online and have not found much.

-Tomato


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## Peter Clausen (Jul 24, 2010)

These will come readily to blacklight set-ups (at night), in areas where they occur. I've seen dozens of them on the sheet while blacklighting in parts of Arizona, and sometimes multiple species.


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## yeatzee (Jul 24, 2010)

Tomato said:


> Hey yeatzee, I've got a [i think] _Dicromantispa sayi_ that matured in captivity without me realizing it. Check out some of my posts, I named him Sensei. That's pretty amazing that you found three of them, they're supposedly pretty rare. How/where did you find them? Do you know any way to sex them? I have been watching mine carefully, been feeding him mostly long legged flies, but also leafhoppers and small moths. I don't know if I have a male or a female though. I have noticed that he will eat pretty much any live moving prey except for hymenopterans. No idea why. I tried to feed him an ant, tried feeding him a small bee, he always backs off defensively and bats at it with his claws. Maybe he smells the formic acid or something? He has killed a bluebottle which was bigger than him, though he could only eat about half of it. He'll drink water droplets like a mantis would. If you have three of them, I'd be concerned about keeping them together. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to eat each other.
> 
> Still, hopefully you have at least one male and one female. After they mate, you will need to provide a female spider for the larva to board. Probably best to keep the spider in a separate enclosure, as you don't want it to get eaten by the mantidflies. FEED THE SPIDER WELL, as you want her to lay nice juicy eggs, because these eggs will be food for the larva. Wow I can't believe you got three of them, lucky! You must fully document with as many pictures as possible any attempt you make at breeding them!
> 
> ...


I was staying at a friends house in essentially the middle of no where. We were playing some midnight basketball and I noticed some odd looking insects on the side of his house. Sure enough one was a mantidfly. I looked around and found three more, and quickly caught them together in one jam jar. One escaped when I tried to show my friends little nephew  

The trip home was apparently to much for the smaller one, and is showing signs that it is dieing  

They have all been moved to their own 32oz. containers.... I need to figure out what to put in there with them still. Twigs?

I am shocked by the lack of info on these creatures! Hopefully me and you can help change that. Im editing photo's right now, and will post them here soon


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## yeatzee (Jul 24, 2010)

Id say mine are definitely nocturnal. As for feeding, they have small caterpillars and a medium sized fly in their cages. So far they have not shown any interest so im hoping tonight they will be eaten.


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## yeatzee (Jul 24, 2010)

The smallest of the three:





mantidfly by yeatzee, on Flickr


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## Ghostie (Jul 24, 2010)

Killer photo!


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## massaman (Jul 24, 2010)

the most info is found in wikipedia or something like that or use the link I posted it has as much info on this insect as available!


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## yeatzee (Jul 24, 2010)

I was at such a high magnification that getting a full body shot was out of the question... unless I did a pano. This was by far the hardest shot I've ever attempted:





mantidfly pano (3 images) by yeatzee, on Flickr

3 images put together, side by side.


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## LauraMG (Jul 24, 2010)

Wow. Amazing job Yeatzee! You are a master with that camera!


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## yeatzee (Jul 24, 2010)

Thanks!


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## MantidLord (Jul 24, 2010)

Great find, and please keep us updated.


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## yeatzee (Jul 24, 2010)

Will do. Hopefully they will eat tonight  

closeup of its head





Mantidfly - closeup of the head by yeatzee, on Flickr

4 images stacked I think...


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## Tomato (Jul 24, 2010)

yeatzee-

Looks like your mantidfly needs a shave! What an interesting species. I can tell you that my mantidfly lives in a jar that is 3" tall and 2-3/4" diameter and he seems alright in there. I feed him 1-2 times a day but he won't eat if he's not hungry. I caught him a small leafhopper last night, for instance. After not eating for about 24 hrs, he ignored it. By the morning there was a pair of beige colored wings and couple of legs on the tissue paper substrate though, heh. If I'm lucky, he's hungry when I feed him and I get to watch him nab the prey. I have never fed him a caterpillar, but I believe he'd eat that too. As I said, the only thing he seems to reject are hypenopterids of any kind.

As for twigs, I put a couple of small twigs in his jar, but the truth is, he rarely hangs out on them. He seems to prefer the glass or the wire screen in the lid, the latter being where he most frequently hangs out. I find that the twigs are a good thing to throw in there because feed insects like them. Moths and leafhoppers think they are camouflaged or something when they sit on the twig (lol). Sensei typically eats long legged flies, but that's only because they are abundant (in my mint patch, looking for nectar), really easy to catch, and they are an appropriate size (substantial meal, but small enough to be taken easily). I find that the easiest way to do it is: catch the long legged fly in a small vial, put the vial in the freezer for no more than 45-60 seconds to knock the fly out, drop the fly in Sensei's jar, then give it a minute or two to wake up and meet its new room mate.

For substrate, I use layered tissue paper soaked in tap water. I change this substrate once a week and clean out the jar. A week of feeding = a lot of wings, legs, decapitated flies.

I've had Sensei for about a month or two now and he is kicking just fine, so I must not be screwing up too badly. A word of advice, if you ever catch your mantidflies mating, you must find them a female spider!

So, yeah, you watch yours and I'll watch mine and we'll see if we can't add anything to the info out there!

-Tomato


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## MantidLord (Jul 24, 2010)

Apparently this is how they mate: http://www.uniquedaily.com/flying-praying-mantis/ Not sure which is male or female.


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## lancaster1313 (Jul 25, 2010)

MantidLord said:


> Apparently this is how they mate: http://www.uniquedaily.com/flying-praying-mantis/ Not sure which is male or female.


Wow, that pair looks awesome. They look just like the paper wasps that I see every time I step out the door here. Maybe I should look a bit closer, I might find a mantispid! :lol: I am a sissy when it comes to those wasps, they like to get right up in my face, and I always back off.


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## yeatzee (Jul 25, 2010)

Check this out!

http://bugguide.net/node/view/89521

Shows part of their life cycle  

As an update for mine, they still have not eaten anything. They have appropriately sized hoverflies to feed on, so im not sure why. One seems sluggish all of a sudden also


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## yeatzee (Jul 25, 2010)

I discovered that mine is a Plega Sp.

Not sure which one exactly though


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## Peter Clausen (Jul 26, 2010)

Surprising to see those small hairs on the wings. Really great photos!


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## yeatzee (Jul 27, 2010)

Thanks Peter!

Update: Good news - Both of my still living mantidflies have eaten. They were given a wide variety of insects to choose from, including blue bottle flies, small hoverflies, moths, etc. One skipped the hoverflies and other small flies and eventually went straight for the BB fly. The carcass had its feet scattered across the ground and very little of its abdomen left. The rest was still intact. The other mantidfly skipped everything and went for the small moth. Only wings were left  

Maybe next time I will get to witness them hunting


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## Tomato (Jul 27, 2010)

yeatzee said:


> Thanks Peter!
> 
> Update: Good news - Both of my still living mantidflies have eaten. They were given a wide variety of insects to choose from, including blue bottle flies, small hoverflies, moths, etc. One skipped the hoverflies and other small flies and eventually went straight for the BB fly. The carcass had its feet scattered across the ground and very little of its abdomen left. The rest was still intact. The other mantidfly skipped everything and went for the small moth. Only wings were left
> 
> Maybe next time I will get to witness them hunting


If they're hungry they'll go for any bug you put in there as soon as you put it in. It's hilarous, Sensei swivels his head around, then his whole body, and his antennae start wiggling back and forth. I guess it's a bug's way of twiddling its fingers and licking its lips. The other day, I tried to feed him a long legged fly, but the fly lost a leg, so it couldn't fly and wasn't moving much. I knew Sensei would not eat it like that so I grabbed it by one of its legs with tweezers (which got it buzzing and flailing) and hand fed it to Sensei! He went straight for it. So much fun to watch!

BTW, what are you keeping them in? I'd love to see some photos of your enclosure.

-Tomato


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## yeatzee (Jul 28, 2010)

Tomato said:


> If they're hungry they'll go for any bug you put in there as soon as you put it in. It's hilarous, Sensei swivels his head around, then his whole body, and his antennae start wiggling back and forth. I guess it's a bug's way of twiddling its fingers and licking its lips. The other day, I tried to feed him a long legged fly, but the fly lost a leg, so it couldn't fly and wasn't moving much. I knew Sensei would not eat it like that so I grabbed it by one of its legs with tweezers (which got it buzzing and flailing) and hand fed it to Sensei! He went straight for it. So much fun to watch!
> 
> BTW, what are you keeping them in? I'd love to see some photos of your enclosure.
> 
> -Tomato


I just moved them into those plastic 32 oz containers so I can clean and setup another enclosure for them. Nothing picture worthy.... yet.


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## yeatzee (Jul 30, 2010)

Damn! Well all of them are dead, and I have no clue what I did wrong.  

The species I have, rather had, is insanely fragile I guess


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## LauraMG (Jul 30, 2010)

yeatzee said:


> Damn! Well all of them are dead, and I have no clue what I did wrong.
> 
> The species I have, rather had, is insanely fragile I guess


Sorry to hear that! What a bummer!




At least you got some great pics of them


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## Tomato (Jul 30, 2010)

no! Have you examined them? Any signs of anything?

At least now you can mount them or something.

-Tomato


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## yeatzee (Jul 30, 2010)

Tomato said:


> no! Have you examined them? Any signs of anything?
> 
> At least now you can mount them or something.
> 
> -Tomato


No signs of anything wrong with them.... one day they were fine and the next morning they were on the bottom of the cage dead (both died at different days). They just ate too! &lt;_&lt; 

Im going to set aside a day to go over to where I caught them and see if I can give it another shot. Maybe they were old ?


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## robo mantis (Sep 6, 2010)

I see a decent amount of those. They are attracted to a spearmint my neighbors have. I've seen them mating on those and stuff. I kept one once and it at a fruit fly lol! I didn't know the spider thing!


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## JoeCapricorn (Sep 25, 2010)

Today my mom yelled at me to come over and look at this bug. At first it looked just like any ordinary lacewing, but upon closer inspection it was clear this was a Zeugomantispa minuta! Beautiful green mantisfly and absolutely the most fascinating insect I've come across.


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## JoeCapricorn (Sep 25, 2010)

.... And she just laid a bunch of eggs. So... now what?


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## massaman (Sep 27, 2010)

they wont hatch unless they were put on a spiders egg sac or they need to be on their eggs or on a spider maybe to hatch out they develop in a spiders egg sac and the larvae eat the eggs of the spiders if I am not mistaken!


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