# crickets and gonglyus



## dlemmings (Jan 27, 2012)

Just Got a Violin nymph and have been reading various care sheets and posts on this site....it appears if I read correctly that an occasional cricket (like if no BBF or moths are available) would not be harmfull to the Gongys.

While prolonged cricket dies could cause infertility, but not death as I have read on some care sheets.

does this sound correct?

I know they prefer flying foods like My ghost does, but it is a plus to offer something to eat when pupa are between hatches and wild caught food is scarce....what are your experiences?


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## gripen (Jan 27, 2012)

if you have a gongy get more flies. its as simple as that.


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## Bryce08 (Jan 27, 2012)

yeah honestly will just be easier to get flies, you will have to work hard at getting them to eat a cricket...plus flys are cheaper

use rebecca(mantisplace.com) she has spikes and pupae....really realy easy to deal with if you use a fridge to slow them down, and also make them live longer.


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## gripen (Jan 27, 2012)

what im saying is if you cant have a constant supply of flies dont get a gongy. just like if you only have cat food dont get a dog.


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## dlemmings (Jan 27, 2012)

I have HF, HF pupa and BBF pupa plus spikes so I have prepared, just wondered as "just in case" no one plans to fail, only "fails to plan"

An emergency back up plan so to speak

The real pont to my question was that I have read conflicting things on this subject and was curious is someone had an answer from experience...I promise not to feed my gongy cat-food!


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## gripen (Jan 27, 2012)

lol! it wont kill her but it defiantly is not good.


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## Precarious (Jan 27, 2012)

There are always meal worms to fall back on. You have to hand feed but the same goes for crickets.


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## dlemmings (Jan 27, 2012)

gripen said:


> lol! it wont kill her but it defiantly is not good.


which, crickets or cat food??????



Precarious said:


> There are always meal worms to fall back on. You have to hand feed but the same goes for crickets.


ah I had not thought of that, I think my local reptile shop carries those and wax worms...I think wax worms would be more here size (I think she is L-6)


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## gripen (Jan 27, 2012)

mantiscurious said:


> which, crickets or cat food??????
> 
> ah I had not thought of that, I think my local reptile shop carries those and wax worms...I think wax worms would be more here size (I think she is L-6)


cat food lol!


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## lunarstorm (Jan 27, 2012)

I agree with the general advice to stick with flies. I use crickets as a semi-regular feeder for many mantid species but not for Violins. In my experience, crickets are ignored and left alone, thus serve little value as food and even poses a health risk to the violin nymph(s).


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## jcal (Jan 27, 2012)

Take a look at page 26&amp;27.

http://www.ukmantisforums.co.uk/newsletters/may2011.pdf


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## dlemmings (Jan 27, 2012)

I think the mealworm or wax worn (in an emergency) is gonna be the way to go...If I find myself in a jam.

it would be great to fing a reptile store that sells gut loaded flys plus spikes and pupa!

Carey or Rebecca...the weather is so much nicer here in socal lol


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## sporeworld (Jan 27, 2012)

I've had plenty of lean times, where flies were absent and I got nervous. A cricket on tongs has worked for most of my Gongy's, if I wiggle and tease enough. The same technique can be used with fly grubs, and other protein sources. But, as mentioned here, and in nearly every other care sheet, flying foods (flies, moths, bees) seem to be the best diet. But I've seen no ill effects from the occassional cricket - and I've had pretty close to a thousand Gongy's.

I think you'll have better luck with them taking, holding and eatting a cricket than you will with any hard-shelled worms.

Let us know how it goes.


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## dlemmings (Jan 27, 2012)

Well if my timing holds up I will not have a lapse in fly hatches and will feed flys to Gongys &amp; creos (also cant take crix right) if I am running low and feed crickets, worms etc. to my ghost &amp; sp. lineloa

and hopefully the warm weather will provide more wild food.

i have not tried the shine a spotlight on a white sheet at night ting...any so cal locals every try this in colder weather weather with success?

i get home after dark most of the time and that may be an option (neighbors may wonder what I am doing...lol they do already with my fly net


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## sporeworld (Jan 28, 2012)

Weather's been GORGEOUS in SoCal this week, and I've seen plenty of bees, wasps and bubblebees. Strangely, I haven't seen any moths... yet. Must be flies, as well. So, you can always use one of the smelly baits (feces, or cat food - just about the same stench!), or hunt among the flowers by day, and back walls by night.


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## frogparty (Jan 28, 2012)

There have been a ton of honeybees out. I use my apartments pool skimmer net to catch them. Good times


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## gripen (Jan 28, 2012)

frogparty said:


> There have been a ton of honeybees out. I use my apartments pool skimmer net to catch them. Good times


lol! catching is not the hard part. the hard part is getting them in the mantis cage!


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## dlemmings (Jan 28, 2012)

wish I didnt have to be at work today, would have a good chance of catching something. by the time I get home at 5:30 or 6:00 my window will be narrow.

I do want to try the white sheet at night with a spotlight (gotta get a spot light) cause the moths dont seem to come around my proch light or the light posts


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## d17oug18 (Jan 28, 2012)

It seems like everyone is trying to give advice rather than answer your question, so heres the answer: They can be RAISED on crickets, be healthy and die old, only draw back is gauranteed infertile ooths, many MANY breeders will feed crickets all the way till adulthood, once reached to the last molt start um on flies and theyll STILL produce nice fertile ooths =)

Hope that helped.


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## lunarstorm (Jan 28, 2012)

d17oug18 said:


> It seems like everyone is trying to give advice rather than answer your question, so heres the answer:	They can be RAISED on crickets, be healthy and die old, only draw back is gauranteed infertile ooths, many MANY breeders will feed crickets all the way till adulthood, once reached to the last molt start um on flies and theyll STILL produce nice fertile ooths =)
> 
> Hope that helped.


What? How is your answer not "advice"?

I've never read about infertile Violin ooths due to a cricket diet. Could you cite your source? And have you raised Violins on crickets as a primary diet? This is considerably different from Sporeworld's mention of using crickets as an occasional supplement via hand-feeding.

Please know that I respect your opinion and hope I can learn something here but my experience doesn't line up with your statement. I'm not the only one, the link and pages Jcal cited of the May 2011 UKMF newsletter demonstrates that others also consider crickets an unacceptable primary food source for this species, too.


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## d17oug18 (Jan 29, 2012)

I have 5th gen violins captive, with outside sources getting new females and males every now and again to keep the species strong. ALL 100% fed on crickets until there adults, once adults fed flies 100% all grew large healthy and long lived. I no longer have the cite but breeders about 4-5 years back tried this with violins, orchids, idolos, and P. walbierghie(spell check? lol). And all those species survived cricket feed all through adulthood, only thing they noticed was infertile ooths... Sorry i dont have proper citings or proof for you, but i do have personal expierence.


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## gripen (Jan 29, 2012)

d17oug18 said:


> I have 5th gen violins captive, with outside sources getting new females and males every now and again to keep the species strong. ALL 100% fed on crickets until there adults, once adults fed flies 100% all grew large healthy and long lived. I no longer have the cite but breeders about 4-5 years back tried this with violins, orchids, idolos, and P. walbierghie(spell check? lol). And all those species survived cricket feed all through adulthood, only thing they noticed was infertile ooths... Sorry i dont have proper citings or proof for you, but i do have personal expierence.


that is very interesting. please share more. maybe a gongy consolidated?


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## d17oug18 (Feb 1, 2012)

Well people in europe are, in my opinion, ages ahead of us on mantis care! And when i first started this hobby plenty were expiermenting with alot of foods and care and housing! Its already been proven many many times that a tropical mantis can live a full term just on crickets, kept cold... AND kept together with 1% casualty(not counting unknown deaths). Ive tried it myself, with gongys... Fed only crickets, kept under 80*F, and together. And they would rather starve to death then eat a brotheren... lol, Really... the only down side to cricket fed TROPICAL species is unfertile ooths and a few starving to death sense crickets hide downward, not climb upwords. Keeping them cold with make them shed VERY slowly, only being able to be adult for a few months instead of the normal 4-6 ish months.

To all the doubters - I no longer have any proof of the cites, posts, or threads which USE to include pictures. This was many years ago and i aint lookin it up lol =P


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## sporeworld (Feb 1, 2012)

A lot of the thrust behind "Idolomantis Consolidated" was to challenge some of what we were hearing from the other side of the pond, as well as to document our OWN experiences here in the States.

Christian and many others in Europe had spent ENORMOUS time and energy on the subject, and published a wealth of information. I collected what I could from multiple sources, and added some notes from American breeders. This left areas that, in my (limited) research, seemed as-yet unverified.

There also seemed to be a great deal of improvements and innovations left to be made on the subject. Enclosures and molting surfaces in particular were real make-or-break issues in rearing this species. But generally, their observations and reporting seemed to be right on the mark (kudos, ladies and gents).

In any case, I think Americans now have a MUCH better chance of keeping these critters in culture, now that we've made it easier for a newbie to the species to avoid the big drama(s).

The Europeans DO seem to be "ages ahead of us" in this hobby, and we may not be able to close that distance. But is that really anyone's goal...? I'd like to hold a more global view, and I hope we've at least contributed a few morsels to the subject.

I never really got any feedback. I wonder if we got noticed.


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## sporeworld (Feb 1, 2012)

d17oug18 said:


> Keeping them cold with make them shed VERY slowly, only being able to be adult for a few months instead of the normal 4-6 ish months.


Was it your experience that keeping them cold in LOWER instars _SHORTENED_ their OVERALL lifespan...?


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## d17oug18 (Feb 1, 2012)

Naw, same span about a year, but they shed at 3-4 months at a time(instead of weeks) and getting to adulthood was really difficult for them to reach, BUT! keeping them colder also ment the humidity could be nill and they can still shed without any problems, for me at least, #1 holding surface was bamboo, they never ever fall when shedding 100% success rate(only with me). Not saying that there werent deaths, but non from mismolts or mid-shed falling. ALSO, keeping them cold ment there food intake went down dramaticly, one cricket per MONTH! talk about a recession proof way to raise your lil buggers lol. I never went past a month personally just wanted to see if they could handle not eating, but for me... They still lived around 12-14 months, as well, this was only for gongys... imagine the possibilties with S limbatas or Brunners.... i bet with proper care they can live 2 years easy keepin um cold =P


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## sporeworld (Feb 1, 2012)

Hmmm. I'm skeptical, but then, it's a nice change from the usual - when people are skeptical of MY ideas! 

Keep us posted.....


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