# Gongylus gongylodes



## ABbuggin

My 2nd attempt with this species. I had terrible luck with the males last time. &lt;_&lt; Got some ooths in from Gurd and the 1st of my two ooths hatched a handsome 29 nymphs.  

Here's some pics:

















hatched ooth, look close and you can see the holes  






sitting pretty






Weeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!






size comparison to L3 _Phyllocrania, paradoxa_






size comparison to pre-sub _Hestiasula, brunneriana_


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## [email protected]

[SIZE=14pt]Cool man nice pics, now what are you going to do with all of them? :huh: [/SIZE]


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## Kruszakus

Well, normally I'd say I'm jealous, but once again - I just don't have to feel this way anymore


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## Katnapper

Congrats on the hatching, AB.!  Nice pics of a really cool species too.  I love the one with the caption "Wheeeee!!" :lol: They sure are big for L1 nymphs! :huh:  



Kruszakus said:


> Well, normally I'd say I'm jealous, but once again - I just don't have to feel this way anymore


Just as long as you don't start commenting.... "Been there, done that!" :mellow:  :lol:


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## hibiscusmile

Love these babies, must orriginally be from Russia, notice the muffs!


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## Pelle

Cool and nice pics


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## agent A

cool mantis


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## Rick

Nice. Let me know if you are going to get rid of any.


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## Kruszakus

I'm actually there and doing it right now


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## ABbuggin

Rick said:


> Nice. Let me know if you are going to get rid of any.


I want to keep 20-30 3rd-4th instars for myself. It all depends on how many hatch from the 2nd ooth.  (should be about 15 or so) Lol @ Kruzakus. :lol:


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## revmdn

Very cool.


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## Kruszakus

It's spelled Kruszakus, not Kruzakus


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## ABbuggin

Kruszakus said:


> It's spelled Kruszakus, not Kruzakus


It's not my fault that your name is hard to spell.


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## pohchunyee

Nice for you to have this specie going again!!


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## d17oug18

id have to say that i think my ooth is dead lol

i have one too and it never hatched =( im so jealous


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## ABbuggin

d17oug18 said:


> id have to say that i think my ooth is dead loli have one too and it never hatched =( im so jealous


Sorry to hear. I will probably be selling some nymphs in the near future (as L3 or L4). I want at least 20-30, but I also dont want to be swamped. :lol: 

My 2nd ooth should be hatching in 1-2 weeks. B)


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## ABbuggin

One ate a house fly today.


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## Katnapper

ABbuggin said:


> One ate a house fly today.


Wow... :mellow:


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## ABbuggin

Katnapper said:


> Wow... :mellow:


I tossed in about a dozen of the HS, and there are only a few left. They like their flies.  I actually have a strand of flying fruit flies going and they *really *love those.


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## Kruszakus

They can eat Achroia grisella (small wax moth) and Plodia Interpunctella (Indianmeal moth) at L1 too  

Hmmm, where did you get HS pupae? In Poland I can only get pretty big green bottles and huge flies from white maggots.


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## bassist

Kruszakus said:


> They can eat Achroia grisella (small wax moth) and Plodia Interpunctella (Indianmeal moth) at L1 too  Hmmm, where did you get HS pupae? In Poland I can only get pretty big green bottles and huge flies from white maggots.


There are a few vendors in the US :&gt;


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## ABbuggin

bassist said:


> There are a few vendors in the US :&gt;


And their dirt cheap too.


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## Katnapper

Kruszakus said:


> They can eat Achroia grisella (small wax moth) and Plodia Interpunctella (Indianmeal moth) at L1 too  Hmmm, where did you get HS pupae? In Poland I can only get pretty big green bottles and huge flies from white maggots.


If "HS" means housefly, there is a breeder/vendor who sells and ships housefly pupae here in the US... SpiderPharm.


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## kmsgameboy

So awesome! I want to try keeping some of those some time! They have always been my faves!


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## ABbuggin

Took a few more pics today.  







Sharing food.






Now they are fighting over it. :lol: 






They do their best to escape when I take pics.  






When they eat a house fly, they get really fat. :lol: 






Cute.


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## Katnapper

Little boogers!! :wub:


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## hibiscusmile

What stage are they buggy? I just had another hatching tonight, just at about 8:something!

Also we may need to exchange some for new blood lines! Right now I have two different litters.


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## ABbuggin

hibiscusmile said:


> What stage are they buggy? I just had another hatching tonight, just at about 8:something!Also we may need to exchange some for new blood lines! Right now I have two different litters.


Good idea Becky, where did you get yours from? Mine are from Gurd who told me that when he got them, they were from wild stock so the ones I have are fairly "fresh".

They are L1 at the moment. I have 29. I have another ooth which should hatch in the 15-20 range that is incubating also.


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## beckyl92

i have a violin ooth :lol: 

its pretty small so dunno if it'll hatch but finger crossed.

they're pretty big nymphs!


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## Gurd

ABbuggin said:


> Good idea Becky, where did you get yours from? Mine are from Gurd who I believe got them from Teir a few generations ago (I think three). Gurd also told me that when he got them, they were from wild stock so the ones I have are fairly "fresh".
> 
> /quote]
> 
> No I didn't get them from Teir mate, I got them from a breeder/trader in the UK with an Indian contact.
> 
> Glad they are doing well mate
> 
> They can get over zelous when sharing flies tho


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## ABbuggin

oops, sorry about that. :huh:


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## yen_saw

ABbuggin said:


> They do their best to escape when I take pics.


You can try to turn the cage upright and have the "door" open on the side instead of top. Much easier to handle that way.


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## ABbuggin

yen_saw said:


> You can try to turn the cage upright and have the "door" open on the side instead of top. Much easier to handle that way.


Good idea, but the sides are rounded.  As soon as they hit L2-L3 I will move them to a larger screen cage.


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## ABbuggin

I just had 20 of the 29 shed to L2 in about 2 hours! That's one mantis shedding apprx. every 6 minutes.  I've never seen this kind of "burst shedding" before! Usually, shedding is spread over 3 days or so for a group. So far, 100% success. B) 











L2 next to L1. It is blurry because I had to use auto focus since I had to take the pic with just one hand. Auto focus sucks with macro pics. :angry: 






L2 next to a 2nd generation pre-sub sybilla, big ain't they.  (sorry for the blurry-ness again, the two would not sit still at all lol)


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## Gurd

Good job mate


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## ABbuggin

Gurd said:


> Good job mate


Thanks. I have one that shed to 2nd instar and is almost as dark as chocolate. I have never seen one so dark at L2 before. :blink: Not a one of the 29 mis-shed to L2. B)


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## Kruszakus

I hope you don't mind me showing these pics here. Just to prove how BAD those mantids can be.

WC fly - larger than a house fly, but a bit less bulky that a green bottle. My L2 are already pawning green bottles though.






Small waxmoth - L1 don't even seem to struggle with those. Pardon the bad quality.


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## ABbuggin

That's exactly what I've been feeding mine, and things a bit larger.


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## ABbuggin

They have been shedding to L3 over the past 3-4 days. B) 

Here's a couple:











Sorry, they are a bit pale, these just shed today and haven't darkened up yet.


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## revmdn

Very nice.


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## hibiscusmile

I got mine from Poland, not same breeder as you, I just had a new hatching, my Goodness, so many towheads...hahah


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## ismart

Very nice AB! keep up the great work!


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## ABbuggin

Made a short video today. B)


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## [email protected]

Wow they can really move!!!


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## ABbuggin

Had some shed to 4th instar while I was away.  












I also have a male that is oddly colored. Look at how light colored the 1st half of his legs are compared to the rest of his body. :blink:


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## Katnapper

ABbuggin said:


> Had some shed to 4th instar while I was away.  I also have a male that is oddly colored. Look at how light colored the 1st half of his legs are compared to the rest of his body. :blink:


Looks like your brother did well! But then again, maybe he painted those legs just to have you on when you got back! :lol:


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## ABbuggin

Got some 5th instars today.


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## hibiscusmile

They are looking really good Abuggin!


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## ABbuggin

They also shed to 5th instar about 4-5 days ago......... (forgot I took these lol)






Female






Male






Male

They are very hard to take pics of because they can't stop running around and when they do, they wiggle in and out of focus! :lol:


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## ismart

Yet again, Great looking specimens. Keep up the great work!


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## ABbuggin

Thanks again.  I have 11.5 pairs (one extra male). B) B)


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## ismart

ABbuggin said:


> Thanks again.  I have 11.5 pairs (one extra male). B) B)


Thats an impressive amount!


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## ABbuggin

ismart said:


> Thats an impressive amount!


Thanks.

Out of an original 29, its not bad. I've only lost 3 to bad sheds (shedding to L2 and L3), the other 3 got eaten when things got too crowded. h34r: I've moved them to a much larger cage (I split males/females up) and crowding will no longer be an issue, even with adults.


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## mantidsaresweet

Those guys look great. I will get this species one day, it's my favorite. Good luck in breeding them!


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## ABbuggin

As of 3 days ago, they have begun to shed to 6th instar.  Only females at the moment, I'll post pics after a male sheds and hardens up a bit (I will have 3-4 shed tomorrow).
















Getting big. B) 






Comparison with a 6th instar _Empusa, pennata_. Other than size, note how similar they appear. The _Empusa _looks a bit small compared to the _Gongylus_, but _Gongylus _are pretty big.  _Empusa _are a small, medium size, while _Gongylus _are a rather large species.


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## ismart

:blink: Your gongy's are getting big! I never realized just how similar they are to one another.  

Yet again great pics!


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## ABbuggin

ismart said:


> :blink: Your gongy's are getting big! I never realized just how similar they are to one another.  Yet again great pics!


Thanks. They do get big. The females aren't even sub adult!  Since they are both from the same family, they do have a lot of similarities (but they act *completely *different).


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## ABbuggin

Some pics of a freshly shed 6th instar (pre-sub) male...











Check out the antenna.






Notice the wing buds. When he sheds to subadult (next shed) they will extend past his body a bit.






A pair. (male on right, female on left)


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## ABbuggin

They have been shedding to 7th instar.  






female






male
















Something a bit odd. This is what the normal 7th instar female wing buds look like.........






but this is not the case with this one. She looks like a sub adult, and......






is even a lot bigger than the others! (the bigger on is one the left). Anybody know what's up? I know they were all the same instar prior to shedding just now. :wacko:


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## 4upakabra

ooou! very interesting mantis!


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## Katnapper

You're obviously doing great with them, Andrew! Keep it up!


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## ABbuggin

Katnapper said:


> You're obviously doing great with them, Andrew! Keep it up!


Thank you. They sure do eat a lot. About 2,000 flies a month. :blink:


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## Katnapper

ABbuggin said:


> Thank you. They sure do eat a lot. About 2,000 flies a month. :blink:


 :lol:


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## ABbuggin

I have had adults for a few weeks now!  












I also have a few VERY dark females!






Beautiful!!






Adult male






The males' wings are beautiful! They remind me of an old, wrinkled and yellowed treasure map! :lol: 






The males have funny antenna! :lol:


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## ismart

Wow! they look fantastic!  Great job! How many did you end up with?


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## ABbuggin

ismart said:


> Wow! they look fantastic!  Great job! How many did you end up with?


I still have a fair amount of sub-adults, but I still have 11 pairs.


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## ismart

ABbuggin said:


> I still have a fair amount of sub-adults, but I still have 11 pairs.


 :blink: That is a nice amount!


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## MikhailsDinos

Congratulations!! I'll have to give this species a try sometime.


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## ABbuggin

Well, today for a good day for me! I introduced a male with the oldest female last night and woke up to him mounting her. He seemed a bit lost on what to do and kept on trying to mate with her leg?! :blink: After a few hours, he finally got it right! They were connected for at least 7 hours.  






Sorry for the blurry pic, it was taken through plastic.  

About 4 hours later, I walked in my room to see the female laying an ooth! She laid it right on the zipper!!  :blink: 






I'm so happy right now. :wub: :wub:


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## ismart

Thats awsome andrew! Just don't forget not to by accidently zip open the net cage in the next few days! :lol:


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## ABbuggin

Lol, at least she laid it halfway down so I can remove it without having to slide the zipper over it.


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## tier

> I'm so happy right now.


Nice feeling, he? Congratulations, man! I cross my thumbs that this female will lay you a nice number of fertile ooth.

Congratulations! I think you feel about the same like I felt some days ago when I found my Idolomantis mating 

Really great to hear you are doing fine with Gongylus in USA now!

Wow, AB, you seem to breed a lot of difficult species. Not bad! ;-)

Keep on breeding ;-)

regards


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## ABbuggin

tier said:


> Nice feeling, he? Congratulations, man! I cross my thumbs that this female will lay you a nice number of fertile ooth.Congratulations! I think you feel about the same like I felt some days ago when I found my Idolomantis mating
> 
> Really great to hear you are doing fine with Gongylus in USA now!
> 
> Wow, AB, you seem to breed a lot of difficult species. Not bad! ;-)
> 
> Keep on breeding ;-)
> 
> regards


I do feel great. Just can't wait until the other 9 females mate.  

Thanks for the kind words.  Insects are my passion so I like to breed the coolest/hardest ones as a fun challenge.


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## Gurd

Glad to see that you are doing well with these


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## ABbuggin

Wooooooo!!!!!!! They hatched!  

They incubated for 31 days.

From when the original batch hatched up to the next generation hatching was 150 days. :blink: About 30 nymphs from 1st ooth.  






The nymphs on just a *few *of my ooths.  






L1






Largest female (95mm!)






BIG size difference.  This will soon become a weekly occurrence. :wub:


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## Emile.Wilson

omygosh, so jealous, hopefully i get some pretty adutls soon


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## revmdn

Awesome.


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## ZoeRipper

They're so CUUUTE!


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## f.wattiez

Hello!

Good job!

I hope to also make a success of this superb species!

Best regards, François!


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## Katnapper

Congrats on the hatching! And I love the pic with the big female and the nymph together!


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## ABbuggin

Thought you all would be interested in something that we really don't see. Egg development!







Recently laid ooth.






Another ooth, a little further along. See the nymphs eyes.  






Even further along. The eggs turn completely dark. This one will hatch in less than a week.


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## sufistic

Awesome photos. Hope those ooths have a good hatch rate.


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## Katnapper

Interesting succession of photos, Andrew! Nice.


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## chrisnoahdana

AMAZZZZING PICS Andrew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ABbuggin

Finally caught one hatching this morning!  About 20-30 nymphs. Anything near 30 is considered a large hatching.


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## Katnapper

ABbuggin said:


> Finally caught one hatching this morning!  About 20-30 nymphs. Anything near 30 is considered a large hatching.


Nice catch and pic!


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## Rick

Very nice!


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## revmdn

Sweet.


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## yen_saw

Great timing!! good job for the nice hatch.


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## ABbuggin

I've had about a dozen ooths hatch and yet, somehow, I've missed all of them (but this one) hatching. I always catch them just after hatching.


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## ABbuggin

Had a few requests regarding how I keep these.  






Separate cage for my remaining males.






BIGGGGGGG cage for my girls.  I know its dirty inside. I havn't cleaned it in a while.  

The cages on top have about 60 nymphs inside. B) 






My personal stock. They get a special cage lol.  






The ooths incubating next to my Empusa.


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## ismart

Nice set ups!  I have had similar ones as well.


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## Rick

In the last pic is that a ff culture? How well does that work? Mine are set up identical.


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## ABbuggin

It is a fruit fly culture inside (with the Empusa). It works amazingly well and feeds them for weeks. Keep in mind, I use the flying type for this. Not sure how well flightless would work. They may just hang out in the culture.


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## sbugir

Holy God, that's the Gongylus heaven...


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## mantidsaresweet

Cool dude. Those pics help me out a lot!


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## ABbuggin

Glad they could help.


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## yeatzee

Very similar setup:






(moved the cage a bit so you can see the inside)

The net wall closest to the lamp is approx. 96 degrees and the back wall is approx. 86 degrees with this setup. As they get older I'll move them closer to the light.






edit: like my signiture? Gongylus rule all!


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## ismart

ABbuggin said:


> It is a fruit fly culture inside (with the Empusa). It works amazingly well and feeds them for weeks. Keep in mind, I use the flying type for this. Not sure how well flightless would work. They may just hang out in the culture.


Flightless work well, if you tap the culture every now and then. They all run up the sides to the top.


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## massaman

is there not a problem that the nymphs could fall in the open container of fruit flies and maybe die or get stuck the medium?


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## ABbuggin

massaman said:


> is there not a problem that the nymphs could fall in the open container of fruit flies and maybe die or get stuck the medium?


Nope. I made sure to put a lot of grass inside of the culture. If the mantids are hungry enough, they actually go hunting inside the grass. :lol: 

I have never had one mantis get stuck and I've been using this method for almost a year.


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## ABbuggin

Got board today, so I took a few pics while taking care of my gongies for the day. B) Can't wait until its warm enough outside to get some shots with some natural light in them instead of a flash.  







Some of my first off spring are 4th instar.  






When they are about to lay an ooth, they get VERY fat. :lol: 






Laying fertile ooth #27






Notice the little dot on her leg lobe? I do this so that I can tell which ones have been mated.


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## yeatzee

what do you mark her with?


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## ABbuggin

I just made a little dot with a sharpie on the inside section of the lobe. You can't see it unless you look for it and it keeps me from mating a fertile female before an infertile one.


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## yeatzee

thats actually pretty brilliant! :lol:


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## ABbuggin

Well considering they basically all look the same, I didn't want to try and "remember"' which ones were already fertile! :lol:


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## yen_saw

You keep all the adult female (mated or not) together Andrew? Once adult i separate each female in each large container but keep group of male together. I let each female in with the cage and once mated i set the female in individual net cage instead of marking her cos i need to preserve her in the future  . But i can see why you keep them together you have WAY too many. I hope you're aware that each mated female is capable of laying an ooth every 3-4 days!! :blink: My guess is you have loads of net cages right now


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## ABbuggin

I keep all the females in one cage, and the males in another.

Lol, I'd love to do it that way Yen, but when your bedroom that you share with your brother is your bug room, well space isn't of an abundance.  They do lay ooths frequently, in fact, I've had 5 laid between today and yesterday. :blink:


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## Rick

That culture of flies doesn't dry up?


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## yen_saw

ABbuggin said:


> I keep all the females in one cage, and the males in another. Lol, I'd love to do it that way Yen, but when your bedroom that you share with your brother is your bug room, well space isn't of an abundance.  They do lay ooths frequently, in fact, I've had 5 laid between today and yesterday. :blink:


 yeah i understand the space issue this species is huge, thank god they can be kept together. That's lot of ooth in a day!! watch out for 100 nymphs hatching out a month later :lol: I have only 2 mated female on my first batch a month or two ago and i was overwhelm with the ooth production, now my second batch have grown into adult and starting to mate too this time there are 6 females. Craig must have created a mass-produced violin trait  I have never seen that many violin here in the USA before :blink: .


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## ABbuggin

Rick said:


> That culture of flies doesn't dry up?


It does dry up a little sooner than a normal culture, but I put it in the coolest spot.  



yen_saw said:


> yeah i understand the space issue this species is huge, thank god they can be kept together. That's lot of ooth in a day!! watch out for 100 nymphs hatching out a month later :lol: I have only 2 mated female on my first batch a month or two ago and i was overwhelm with the ooth production, now my second batch have grown into adult and starting to mate too this time there are 6 females. Craig must have created a mass-produced violin trait  I have never seen that many violin here in the USA before :blink: .


I agree, they are big. I have one female that is over 95mm (nearly 4")! What's scary is I still have 3-4 females that are infertile. :blink: I've just been waiting for a few males to mature. This is for sure the most violin "populus" year for the USA that I've seen so far. So many people have them now!


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## yen_saw

ABbuggin said:


> I agree, they are big. I have one female that is over 95mm (nearly 4")! What's scary is I still have 3-4 females that are infertile. :blink: I've just been waiting for a few males to mature. This is for sure the most violin "populus" year for the USA that I've seen so far. So many people have them now!


wow you have a monster! 9 cm is the biggest for me. She will be preserved. If you don't keep her when she passed please let me know  I also have couple of subadult males and some adult males, but now i know where to look for if i ran out of male  likewise if you need any let me know.


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## massaman

the two I got from yen are neat to look at at have molted to l3 but if they make it to sub adult will look around for males I think both are females!


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## yeatzee

ABbuggin said:


> This is for sure the most violin "populus" year for the USA that I've seen so far. So many people have them now!


Glad to be part of this years violin keepers


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## ABbuggin

yen_saw said:


> wow you have a monster! 9 cm is the biggest for me. She will be preserved. If you don't keep her when she passed please let me know  I also have couple of subadult males and some adult males, but now i know where to look for if i ran out of male  likewise if you need any let me know.


Thanks for the heads up. I'll be fine though, I just had a male mature, and three more will soon shed. I'm all set for males and females.  I certainly don't need anymore females right now! :lol: I will be preserving the biggest female for sure! She is a big very dark brownie.  I need to properly measure her when she is fully fat to really see how long she truly is. She measured 95mm right after shedding, she wasn't even fat then! :blink: 

Here's an old pic of here on my hand:






Yen have you noticed how gongys like to nibble on a sibling's legs when they shed? I've had this happen a few times when I ran low on flies. This resulted in a few 4 legged mantids (both on the same side!). :lol: Shockingly, this never held them up and they continued to shed like normal and eventually grew them both back! :blink:


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## yen_saw

ABbuggin said:


> Yen have you noticed how gongys like to nibble on a sibling's legs when they shed? I've had this happen a few times when I ran low on flies. This resulted in a few 4 legged mantids (both on the same side!). :lol: Shockingly, this never held them up and they continued to shed like normal and eventually grew them both back! :blink:


wow that's huge! Glad to know you will preserve her, she's a beauty!  I haven't noticed the leg nibbling yet so far there is only one female lost one of her legs but i think it happened during a mismolt. Maybe your violin was thirsty and try to take a sip on moisture from the freshly molt violin but ends up taking a piece of it instead. I would mist them more often if that happen. This species consumes lot of flies so i have never let the fly quantity stay low in the cage.


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## ABbuggin

yen_saw said:


> wow that's huge! Glad to know you will preserve her, she's a beauty!  I haven't noticed the leg nibbling yet so far there is only one female lost one of her legs but i think it happened during a mismolt. Maybe your violin was thirsty and try to take a sip on moisture from the freshly molt violin but ends up taking a piece of it instead. I would mist them more often if that happen. This species consumes lot of flies so i have never let the fly quantity stay low in the cage.


Good idea, I'll give that a shot and see what happens. I've only noticed it though when my flies wouldn't hatch and I was waiting on a late shipment to show up.  It's only happened a few times so who knows what really happened.

If you want, I can send you my specimens when they are dead. I'm only going to be preserving a few.  (I still have the specimens from my last failed attempt from 2009)


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## yen_saw

ABbuggin said:


> Good idea, I'll give that a shot and see what happens. I've only noticed it though when my flies wouldn't hatch and I was waiting on a late shipment to show up.  It's only happened a few times so who knows what really happened. If you want, I can send you my specimens when they are dead. I'm only going to be preserving a few.  (I still have the specimens from my last failed attempt from 2009)


Thank for the offer Andrew i have enough for the dead collection right now i am likely to stop breeding after this batch hope you and the rest will carry on the flag  Glad to know you did it this time my last attempt back in 2006 only produced few nymphs.


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## ABbuggin

Haha, Yen you were right. I have had 6 ooths (one hatched each day in a row) hatch with apprx 30 nymphs out of each. I have a lot of babies right now, with plenty other ooths still incubating. :blink:


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