# What do you do with them all?



## Valeyard (Jan 15, 2012)

I hate to sound like a complete moron, but I have a question, and I haven't really been able to find a clear answer. As I understand it when one breeds two mantes, the resulting ootheca can render many.... many...... maaaaaaaany little mantes. What do you do with them then? I could handle several mantes, but I don't have the infrastructure for a colony in the double digits. This is especially worrisome in the case of a mantis species that cannot be released in a certain area. Again, I hate to sound dense, but I'd like to pin all the basics down before I adopt this new venture.


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## sporeworld (Jan 15, 2012)

Share the wealth. 

My favorite option is to trade. Just post in the classified section on this forum. Worst case, you offer them for free (plus shipping). Someone almost always takes them.

Some people use them as feeders for their reptiles and other critters. Horrifying to me, but you know... circle of life and all.

Finally, if all else fails, put them respectfully in the freezer, bid them adeiu, and reconsider letting the ooths hatch at all in the future.

Also, if you add your location to your profile, you'll probably find people in your area that can just swing by and pick them up.


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## patrickfraser (Jan 15, 2012)

I just bought a pair of chameleons.  :lol:


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## meaganelise9 (Jan 15, 2012)

I don't think it's a dumb question. I've wondered that myself. I have about 14, and some days I feel overwhelmed feeding them all and their feeders.


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## agent A (Jan 15, 2012)

I just keep them all together when young until a reasonable amount r left alive

Depending on the species, some or many of the young nymphs die fairly early and in the end I'm usually not left with a terribly overwhelming number of nymphs


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## Psychobunny (Jan 15, 2012)

Sell them, trade them!

Many die anyway, so by L3 you only have about 1/3 or less then when they hatched because they

will eat each other.

I only have about 6 lineola left now after a hatch of about 200, and that was only a few months ago!!

I dont even seperate them untill they are about L4 or L5.

Obviously, I am not concerned with who eats who.

It saves me from having to feed them every day


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## Termite48 (Jan 15, 2012)

At least you can help out a newbie by providing him with nymphs for starting out. Just ask for the mailing charge.


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## warpdrive (Jan 15, 2012)

here are a few of my thoughts on the matter...

first off, not every mantid has 100 or more babies from just a single ooth.

the Ghost mantid for example, is an easy to rear, and awesome beginer mantis. expect no more then 25 babies per ooth. my avg (in the limited time that I had them) was 15 babies per ooth. there are plenty of mantids that have just a small and limited number of babies, so just don't buy something crazy like a chinese and you'll be fine.

I was also smart in that when I first got into this hobbie I "showed off" a lot of what I had to friends. they in turn asked how easy it was to care for, and thus learned at least a little bit about thier care. then when I got realy sick and had to give almost everything up, they were able to take in a lot of my pets and babies. it was a sad day to give away a lot of my mantids. but it had to be done. the good news is that they all went to caring people who at least could give them the time they needed and care for them in the way that they needed.

please also understand something. you don't have to breed your mantids.

sure it's fun, but with many here breeding almost everything, why do you have to?

like many here, I've had plenty of extra babies at times.

I prefer to sell or trade the extras when I can. I too have been free to say here that I do feed my Chameleons mantids from time to time. they are a natural food item in the wild for many of my animals. just don't expect me to feed one of my pets or feed off one of my favorites.

oh, I just got a Creo Pictipenis ooth from a member here the other day. I'm told that the ooth should have between 50-60 babies (nymphs). as a starter to get back into the hobbie, I am already thinking of just how crazy it is going to be feeding all of them. but it's not as hard as it seems. the nymphs will be kept together in a fine net cage for the first molt or two. then once I can do so they will be placed in their own deli cup and I might just sell or trade a few off to not overwelm myself with too many creos.

I'm glad you have given much thought on this topic before you started. but we are here to help in any way we can, so you'll never be all alone when a real problem happens.

good luck in what ever you do.

Harry


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## angelofdeathzz (Jan 15, 2012)

A simple ad " Free to good home" with paid shipping should do the trick.


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## CoolMantid (Jan 15, 2012)

Cannibalism! Let them eat eachother! It sounds bad but it happens in nature. It can really help lower the large number of babies!!


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## Introvertebrate (Jan 15, 2012)

Let's say that you want to eventually mate some of them, and start the cycle all over again. How many should you try to raise to adulthood? Maybe 3 males and 3 females?


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## sporeworld (Jan 15, 2012)

I've always subscribed to the "20 or more" phiolosophy with new species. Unless you enjoy the challenge or the anxiety. You can always post the extra adults in the classifieds, as well.

Somewhere, there's a really good thread about the numbers behind the thinking. Can't remember where.


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## warpdrive (Jan 15, 2012)

Sporeworld said:


> I've always subscribed to the "20 or more" phiolosophy with new species. Unless you enjoy the challenge or the anxiety. You can always post the extra adults in the classifieds, as well.
> 
> Somewhere, there's a really good thread about the numbers behind the thinking. Can't remember where.


I agree alot. yet at the same time 6 males and 3 or 4 females is a great start. yet it clearly depends on what you want to mate. I think that people think that it's always going to be easy with a few pairs and then wind up with problems down the road that could include everything from mismolts to cannabilism.

some types have few males per ooth. some females like to munch on males before he's attached. some are way too friendly to each other and are a breaze to mate. some want to make you want to pull your hair out. some will have a high rate of mismolts, while others are a snap.

20 (L2 or L3) nymphs just make the problems not that big of a deal when you want to breed. but that doesn't mean that with good habbits that you can't get some ooths from a sub adult pair or two of Ghosts. just don't expect that from some Idolo pairs.

Harry


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## Introvertebrate (Jan 15, 2012)

I thought you could keep the remaining 6-10 in separate enclosures. That would eliminate any further cannibalism, at least until you pair them up for mating attempts.


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## warpdrive (Jan 15, 2012)

Introvertebrate said:


> I thought you could keep the remaining 6-10 in separate enclosures. That would eliminate any further cannibalism, at least until you pair them up for mating attempts.


even with 20, you might have to do this. it all depends on what type you want.

6 to 10 ghosts will be fine in a large net or glass cage with plenty of food. but with most creos, you better start putting them into their own deli cup by L3 or L4 the latest.

I did keep 11 deroplatys that I got from kitkat all in a 12x12 net cage until L5 with no issues. yet still lost all 3 males due to them turning into lunch once I tried to breed them.

if I just had 2 or 3 more males, I would have had no problem getting some fertal ooths.

my ghosts on the other hand were frisky little guys. the girls never minded and the boys had their fun with ease. yet I did have one boy who had bad wings once adulthood was reached and he KILLED two of my breeder females.

in other words, things can and do go wrong. so you want to have plenty to start out with if you do deside to breed them.

Harry


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## Introvertebrate (Jan 15, 2012)

Thanks Harry. I understand the appeal of mantids, but they may very well be the most high-maintenance pet. Especially if you want to keep a colony going indefinitely.


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## sporeworld (Jan 15, 2012)

Creos in particular are WAY easy. Check out the "Too Hot For Creos" thread. And communal (IMO) is fine until adult or subadult to be safe. And even then, the enclosure has so much to do with it. They'll deal with a threat they can see coming. Keep em fed and enjoy. Just look at how many times "free" and "Creo" appear together (especially Creo p), and you'll get a sense of their explosive growth potential.

That said, once you get an adult female, all bets are off. I had a female Creo kill and eat an adult female Idolo as she was drying her wings. Well, she only ate the top half, but still. Crazy!

I'm a big fan of the communal setup, and Ghosts were one of THE easiest. I honestly couldn't count how many I had at one time - just from an original 20. Just keep em fed with flying prey, and enjoy the scenery.


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## ShieldMantid1997 (Jan 16, 2012)

Creos are great, i'm pretty much repeating what Spore said but i can't express it enough. The adult females, or at least mine, can have a hunger for males  I had a female that ate two males in one day..... But the ooth you have now should give you a large amount of nymphs, and don't stress it if your fruit fly culture gets a little weak. Just let the culture repair itself and in the meantime some of the nymphs will munch and some won't. I had 40 and ran out of flies, by the time i had a culture, i had 28 nymphs. Its the natural way and in a way kind of a solution.


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## gripen (Jan 16, 2012)

i eat them but that may be just me...


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## patrickfraser (Jan 16, 2012)

I let them "self feed" among themselves from time to time. I think the worst that could happen is that your population, _at the most_, will be diminished by 50%. I figure if they're about the same size as what they're eating it should sate them for a bit. They have to be really hungry to tackle and eat a sibling. Survival of the fittest. It leaves you with the fiercest and strongest ones which will most likely breed and produce better.


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## yen_saw (Jan 17, 2012)

Or you can send it to me  

Seriously, if you are worry about it and don't want to pack/ship mantis, keep only species that you can release.


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## crucis (Jan 17, 2012)

agree with mr yen. IMO it can also be very rewarding to do some (responsibly light!) collecting from the wild, provided the mantids acquired are young nymphs. That way u stand to improve their chances of survival. When they are adults it would be great to breed them and release both parents and offspring in the same general area where you found them.


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## SilentDeviL (Jan 17, 2012)

Hertarem45 said:


> Cannibalism! Let them eat eachother! It sounds bad but it happens in nature. It can really help lower the large number of babies!!


 I think that's what I'm ganna have to do ... not sure how this happened I had 120-150 Chinese hatch out ... this is the 3rd week ,..... I still have more then 100+ left.... and I have over 30+ 24oz and 32oz cup with them in it .... I'm trying to keep them all alive and happy but is way too much work takes more then 1 hr just to feed them...... i have 3-5 per cup.... so i guess i'll just let them go out till king on the CUP..... is cray keep over 100+ unless u got a big tank...


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## Introvertebrate (Jan 17, 2012)

yen_saw said:


> Seriously, if you are worry about it and don't want to pack/ship mantis, keep only species that you can release.


The tropical species seem more interesting and they're such aggressive eaters.


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## CoolMantid (Jan 17, 2012)

SilentDeviL said:


> I think that's what I'm ganna have to do ... not sure how this happened I had 120-150 Chinese hatch out ... this is the 3rd week ,..... I still have more then 100+ left.... and I have over 30+ 24oz and 32oz cup with them in it .... I'm trying to keep them all alive and happy but is way too much work takes more then 1 hr just to feed them...... i have 3-5 per cup.... so i guess i'll just let them go out till king on the CUP..... is cray keep over 100+ unless u got a big tank...


They will cannibalize until there is one left then you might want to lower the amount again- Place the remainder "King of the cup champians" in new cups with 3-5 nymphs in a cup. Once they cannibalize until there is one left standing (in each cup) keep those. Its a perfect amount!


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## ismart (Jan 17, 2012)

Introvertebrate said:


> The tropical species seem more interesting and they're such aggressive eaters.


Yes, tropical species might seem more interesting. Temperate species are aggressive eaters too!


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## ismart (Jan 17, 2012)

Hertarem45 said:


> They will cannibalize until there is one left then you might want to lower the amount again- Place the remainder "King of the cup champians" in new cups with 3-5 nymphs in a cup. Once they cannibalize until there is one left standing (in each cup) keep those. Its a perfect amount!


L3 would be a good time to separate the males from the females, or you will end up with all females.


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## Ntsees (Jan 17, 2012)

I do what some have already said - cannabalism. Strangely enough, the ones that cannabalized molted earlier than the ones that just ate fruit flies (not enough fruitflies to go around for so many nymphs). I guess by eating a food item as large as itself, it gained the nutrients to start preparing for the next molt.


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## SilentDeviL (Jan 17, 2012)

ismart said:


> L3 would be a good time to separate the males from the females, or you will end up with all females.


 they are only 1 inch long .. how can u tell sex ??? lol I might need glass to see that ..


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## ismart (Jan 18, 2012)

SilentDeviL said:


> they are only 1 inch long .. how can u tell sex ??? lol I might need glass to see that ..


It can be difficult at times, but if you really have a hard time counting segments, or just looking at the last few. A magnifying glass will come in handy.


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## SilentDeviL (Jan 18, 2012)

ismart said:


> It can be difficult at times, but if you really have a hard time counting segments, or just looking at the last few. A magnifying glass will come in handy.


Thank for the tip Ismart


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## angelofdeathzz (Jan 18, 2012)

Males are the ones with five-o-clock shadow :euro:  

But really, the males should appear thinner and long, the females will be fatter and bigger as a rule. a magnifying glass is great if you can get them to hold still long enough.


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## Introvertebrate (Jan 18, 2012)

ismart said:


> Yes, tropical species might seem more interesting. Temperate species are aggressive eaters too!


Well then, Chinese Mantis it is.


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## SilentDeviL (Jan 18, 2012)

angelofdeathzz said:


> Males are the ones with five-o-clock shadow :euro:
> 
> But really, the males should appear thinner and long, the females will be fatter and bigger as a rule. a magnifying glass is great if you can get them to hold still long enough.


 they all look the same @@". is only L3... can't see much different ..


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## meaganelise9 (Jan 18, 2012)

yen_saw said:


> Or you can send it to me
> 
> Seriously, if you are worry about it and don't want to pack/ship mantis, keep only species that you can release.


Agreed. Or if you don't want hundreds, find a species that has small ooths. Some have very small hatches. My only ooth that will bear a lot is religiosa, which have been found nearby, so if I get overwhelmed, I know some good spots where they could thrive.


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