# Too Hot for Creos?



## sporeworld (Apr 5, 2011)

EDIT 1-2012:

_This is a good thread for new Creo owners to read through. Plenty of opinions and viewpoints to help you make good decisions)._

I have several Creo pictipennis in a glass enclosure, and all is well. Except... This enclosure is much taller than my previous one, and temps at the hot spots are almost 120f! I'm a little concerned that (a) they won't have the sense to hang elsewhere and (




they could burn their little tarsus.

Any advice out there in bugland?


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## animalexplorer (Apr 5, 2011)

Lower wattage bulb or pull the light/heat source back.


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## PhilinYuma (Apr 5, 2011)

120F is too hot. What is your RH? A temp like that is going to drive it way down. As you know, though, doubling the distance of yr heat source from the tank will reduce the heat by 75% according to some well known law or other, so the problem is easily solved.

I would imagine that the flies that you are providing don't like it much either!

Let us know how this batch does. As you know, I shall be getting some myself by the end of the week. Meanwhile, good luck!


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## sporeworld (Apr 5, 2011)

Yeah, I pulled it back a few inches before posting, and it's down to 100. All the reading I've done suggests about 72-85 f, so that's the target. Just wanted to know if anyone thought they would ajust themselves naturally, or just hang out get crispy. The coolest spot is stil about 95f. I'm curious to see if they will gather in a particular area, and if so, which one. My Idolos always went to the hottest spot and got as close as they could tollerate.

Also, anyone notice the Creos tendency to hang out on TOP of flowers...? My Orchids did that too. When I moved them to a bamboo enclosure without flowers, they seems a little frustrated with hanging upside-down. I'm rethinking a screened top...


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## sporeworld (Apr 5, 2011)

BTW, I love experiments. Not sure how the forum feels about links to other people's stuff, but this is a cool experiment that could have some interesting outcomes.

http://www.freewebs.com/gurdersmantis/ocellatagallery.htm


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## Termite48 (Apr 5, 2011)

I am raising some C. pictipennis also currently. I have provided for them a small net cube for their habitat. The problem with any glass enclosure is that it is the least like nature to the mantis. It is great for us, the viewer and caretaker, but for them, the net cube provides the much needed air circulation or ventilation that they so much need to cope with higher temps. Just think of it as Arizona temps with low humidity and much circulation vs. New Orleans with lower than 100 degree temps but with much humidity. Which one is more comfortable. If you cannot avoid the glass enclosure, do as Phil suggests and remove the heat source to a comfortable temp, using the formula that Phil aluded to in his comment and you can add some shade like a plant (imitation) which the mantid can use to get out of the direct artificial "sun". This is just the observation of a Mantid newbie, but Biology graduate.


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 5, 2011)

That is to hot as they said, and when not used to something new, they can get heat stroke and pass away, so be careful with extreme temp exchanges. And yes they like to sit!  

ps... it is 4/5 and is snowing herre!


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## sporeworld (Apr 5, 2011)

Brrrrrr....

Yeah, I'll keep bringing down the temps. I'll have them in screened enclosures once they're completely off fruit flies.


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## sporeworld (Apr 8, 2011)

I rotate the enclosure so there's a range of about 100 to 80 degress at the top, and no discernable pattern the wear they like to stay. They certainly don't AVOID the hot spots. They DO seems to avoid molting at the top, but that might be species spedific.

These (very) well fed pudge-pots are showing no signs of cannibalism or overt agrression. No losses, either. So far, so good.


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## sporeworld (Apr 15, 2011)

Updating as I go along...

Rotated glass enclosures with mesh top only to give varying heat. Drenching the bedding at the bottom about once every 3 days. But much drier on average than probably recomended on this forum. Temps are still 100+ on the high end, and maybe 75 at the bottom (they're tall enclosures - 17" top to bottom, with 8" clearance to heat lights). No obvious avoidance of, or attractions to, any of the hotspots; although most have apparently staked out their favorite patch of tank.

No cannibalism, and very few overt acts of aggression - just "back off" lunges - then scurrying away. No tussles, no ijuries, no deaths.

Curiously (with exception), they only seem to hang upside-down when they're getting ready to molt.

Note: Even though they have plenty of house flies (they COULD handle BB's at this point), I still dump excess Hyedi (fruit flies) in their enclosure and they seem to enjoy snacking on them. Curiously, one ambitious fellow noticed how the FF's congregate at the fly-mix cup (bottom), and has taken to stalking the ground floor for FF's. I wouldn't say he PREFERS it, but he's certainly making FF's "an important part of this nutriotous breakfast"!


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## hibiscusmile (Apr 15, 2011)

:blink: Well as does a goldfish with what they say is little brains, they do tend to figure out where the food comes from! Smart little fella I say! He's a keeper!


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## sporeworld (Apr 15, 2011)

Ha, ha!

Something else I was wondering with these guys... They can walk on vertical glass, but are there some materials they can't or won't climb...? I can see ringing an enclosure with whatever material that might be, to keep them from just hanging from the top.


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## sporeworld (Apr 16, 2011)

Monkey See, Monkey Do - I now have THREE Creos poised around the "watering hole" (dish). Pretty funny. They look like they're ice fishing (well, except that it's crazy hot).


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## sporeworld (Apr 17, 2011)

Creo's... Meet Blue Bottles.

My Creo's have essentially binged on BB's, laid back in their sofas, unbuckled their belts, and took naps!

Almost positive I saw one wink and me and give me a high-five.


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## sporeworld (Apr 19, 2011)

All's well in Creo land. No cannibalism yet, all transitioned to Blue Bottles, and high temps (103 at top) seem to suit them. Still no pattern to where they prefer to perch (unlike Idolos, Gongy's and now Mio's, that all congregate in the warmest place).

Humidity has been inconsistent, but relatively low (30% and under at times) with no apparent ill effects. Cage bottom got littered with Blue Bottle wings faster that I imagined. I wonder if I started powdering the flies, if the wings would be any more tempting.

These guys are probably the fastest buggers I've had to deal with - and agile. I had two escapees and man-o-man where they hard to catch! And fearless - no hesitation in diving off my hand for a nearby chair!


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## warpdrive (Apr 19, 2011)

even dusted, my creos never ate the wings.

Harry


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## sporeworld (Apr 19, 2011)

Hurumph! Sloppy little buggers...


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## warpdrive (Apr 19, 2011)

Sporeworld said:


> Hurumph! Sloppy little buggers...


yeah, I gata add my adult to a clean deli tub as she makes a huge mess and is just not that clear to see through anymore.

my sub adults are the same way. total slobs.  

Harry


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## angelofdeathzz (Apr 19, 2011)

My Gongy are the same way, they maul the wings tips around in their mouth and then spit it out, only my budwings and Idolo's ever eat any wings and yeah it's a wing filled mess on the bottom in no time.

My guess is they taste like the poo or cold coffee. inch: :lol:


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## sporeworld (Apr 21, 2011)

Ok - so first girl to get wings today. She was shipped to me 3/23/2011 as an L2 (I think). So, what... 6 weeks or so to adult?

She's healthy and ready for action (one hopes)! I've separated her from the others for now, just in case. I'll make sure she's well fed before reintroducing her. I don't have a lens to do the little lady any justice, but here she is, for the record. Colors still seem a little dull/light, but we'll see if that changes after a day or two.


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## sporeworld (Apr 22, 2011)

BTW, both groups of my Creos are in the same style tall-glass-vented-top type enclosure (pictured below, before I tweaked it out). One has bright white flowers, which makes them really easy to see, and the other has fake bamboo branches (very cheap at Micheal's). At first, I didn't like the bamboo, as it cast too much shade. But in hindsight, I really like it (still not a fan of it, visually). The long, stong leaves provide good varied-angle roosts for the Creos, but high visibility to ambushers. Easy to grip and they swing &amp; jump around like monkeys on em! Just FYI.


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## sporeworld (Apr 24, 2011)

Just wanted to post this pic of my over-heated, over-EATED Creos. So greeedy...


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## alicenwnderlnd (Apr 24, 2011)

Gotta Love those creo's !!!!!! you kept them together? nice pics...


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## sporeworld (Apr 24, 2011)

Yup! Kept together - super hot, pretty dry and well, well fed. Some aggression, but no injuries or cannibalism. I took out the first female that molted, but have since reintroduced her. No issues.

All on Blue Bottles now, for adult and sub adult.

They have certainly moved up on my list of recommended starter species.


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## sporeworld (Apr 28, 2011)

Almost everyone has wings now, and the first mating is taking place now. Still plenty of food, super high temps, and no cannibalism.

Life is good.


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## PhilinYuma (Apr 28, 2011)

Mine are a bit behind yours, but I did get an older one, tossed in out of generosity (thanks, Dave!). He eclosed to a seriously good looking male three days ago. I kept him in his own pot so that he didn't eat his younger brothern and sistern in the cage, and when I opened it up to give him his first adult meal, he flew away! I guess that I'll find him soon.

So what are your actual temp and --particularly -- RH for breeding?


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## sporeworld (Apr 28, 2011)

I put the adults in mesh cages a few days ago, with the humdifier NEAR them (but aimed directly AT them). Only about 18% when the A/C is running, and 27% when it's back and forth. Probably like 60% when i leave for the "night", but I didn't record it. It's very inconsistent if i don't aim it at the cage directly (which I didn't do today, and that's when the started breeding). I have a hose that attaches and let's it pur down from the roof, but I haven't used it on these guys (yet). This species is one of the hardiest I've ever raised.


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## psyconiko (Apr 29, 2011)

Hi everyone!I received 12 of them and 11 turned adult.To me it is a very easy species.

I raised them separatly when they are young, 70% humidity 28 to 30 C° degree neon light(but not directly).

Once adult I put them 5 by 5 in 2 glass terrarium with UV light(it is hot!).lots of flies.I keep only 1 female with many males per terra and I removed the pregnant ones so they can lay their ooth in peace(I then lower a bit the temperature,lower humidity,they lay,and I put them back with males for a second mating(just to be sure it is fertilized).


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## sporeworld (Apr 29, 2011)

Nice.

Do you think the lower temps are necessary for her to lay the ooths?


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## psyconiko (Apr 29, 2011)

In fact I use a well ventilated enclosure for laying so the temps goes down a little...I am not sure it is necessary but I noticed they were more agitated,looking for food and willing to mate under hot temps.But they like it I believe as they always go as close as possible to the heat of the UV light(and it is very hot!).

At night it is 24C° 60% humidity.

I forgot to say that in the wild,when about to lay the flower mantis would hide more often in dark places(it it more vulnerable) and therefore "load" less light(=lower temps)


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## sporeworld (Apr 29, 2011)

What kind of UV light...? Do you have a model number of picture...?


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## sporeworld (Apr 29, 2011)

Probably my _favorite_ thing about Creo's is their habit of posturing in front of each other. They strut DIRECTLY toward a sibling, doing their arm waving thing. And there's no apparent reason for it. Just wandering from sibling to sibling being obnoxious. Doesn't matter if they're bigger or smaller. Makes no difference. I used to fear it was a predator gesture (as in "you look like food"). Nope. Just being a punk.

Cracks me up. My older brother used to do the exact same thing...

:angry:


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## sporeworld (Apr 29, 2011)

Here's a picture of my new favorite foliage (found it at a silk plant shop). No idea what it's called (some kind of fern?), but they love crawling on it (and under it).


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## PhilinYuma (Apr 29, 2011)

Sporeworld said:


> Probably my _favorite_ thing about Creo's is their habit of posturing in front of each other. They strut DIRECTLY toward a sibling, doing their arm waving thing. And there's no apparent reason for it. Just wandering from sibling to sibling being obnoxious. Doesn't matter if they're bigger or smaller. Makes no difference. I used to fear it was a predator gesture (as in "you look like food"). Nope. Just being a punk.
> 
> Cracks me up. My older brother used to do the exact same thing...
> 
> :angry:


The experts say that this is a territorial display and that the posturing is a form of mutual identification to prevent attacks. Boxers (boxer mantids, that is!) do the same thing.It seems to occur in gregarious species.


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## sporeworld (Apr 29, 2011)

Makes sense. I certainly saw that in the boxers (I called it "rowing the boat").

Now I'm wondering if I ever saw a male do it...?


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## psyconiko (Apr 29, 2011)

Sporeworld said:


> What kind of UV light...? Do you have a model number of picture...?


It is a ReptiGlo Exoterra 10.0 UVB


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## sporeworld (May 3, 2011)

Update. I moved the Creos from "The Bakery" (Hot &amp; Dry), to a lovely little aquarium with a screened top, sliding front doors, soaked substrate and a heating pad on the bottom. Temp and humdity both in the 75-80 range.

Since the move, there has been ZERO mating. None. Nada. This is with about 5 females and 7 males.

I'll keep you all posted...


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## psyconiko (May 3, 2011)

It seems perfect.But no mating?How old are your Creos?


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## PhilinYuma (May 3, 2011)

Sporeworld said:


> Update. I moved the Creos from "The Bakery" (Hot &amp; Dry), to a lovely little aquarium with a screened top, sliding front doors, soaked substrate and a heating pad on the bottom. Temp and humdity both in the 75-80 range.
> 
> Since the move, there has been ZERO mating. None. Nada. This is with about 5 females and 7 males.
> 
> I'll keep you all posted...


Very interesting. Nikko seems to be getting copulation at 82 -86F (30C) and 70RH and you are getting "nada' at 70-80F and 70-80%RH. I assume that you would do better with 10F+ temp. Very interesting and again shows that suggestions for mating techniques that ignore temp and RH risk failure to copulate or cannibalism. This kind of close observation with accurate recording of the environment is a great help to the hobby (says Phil whose own C. pictipennis will be adult soon).


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## sporeworld (May 3, 2011)

Yeah, that's why I did it. I clearly got immediate mounting in the high temps, and ZERO in low, even from the same mantids.

Still struggling with managing temps in the new setup - it's not under heat lamps, just dual flouros, and a heat pad (and my heat rock hasn't arrived yet). But I DID do some experiments with Exo Terra Heat Cables, that I'm pretty happy with. Hope to put it into these enclosures in a day or two. That, or it's back under the heat lamps for YOU, Mr and Ms Creo!


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## sporeworld (May 3, 2011)

Get this: About 15 minutes after I put the heat lamp on them (up to 88F, but only 25% RH), I turned around and saw this:


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## psyconiko (May 3, 2011)

Excellent!Congratulations!It was worth the effort.25% RH,very interesting.My Creos are always mating in the upper part of my terrarium(a vertical one).It seems that when they rest and are not mating they spend most of their time in the lower part of the terra(lower temp but higher RH),especially the males.But when mating(or wiiling to) they are ALWAYS in the upper part looking for heat,I have never seen them mating down the ground.So I think you did the right thing by decreasing RH.I will try not to spray mine for a while,see what is happening then!


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## sporeworld (May 5, 2011)

WARNING: Image of a Graphic Nature Below!

Love's first casualty.

This little boy went in over his head. Plenty of food, so I think he just got on her nerves.

Poor thing.

He'll be missed. Once he stops walking around...


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## lancaster1313 (May 5, 2011)

Aww, he is bleeding.  I get annoyed when that happens, and the attacker doesn't even finish their prey. &lt;_&lt; I would feed him to something.


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## psyconiko (May 5, 2011)

If he is still walking around,he may still be able to mate.

I had a beheaded S. viridis that stayed "alive" for a whole week.And I have heard of a chicken called Mike....


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## angelofdeathzz (May 5, 2011)

Well I do hope he got to finish before the Queen said "Off With His Head"...


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## sporeworld (May 5, 2011)

Yeah, he did. Not even sure the girl in question did the munching - just a realable assumption. All the gals are bloated on BB's, so it wasn't out of hunger.


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## sporeworld (May 6, 2011)

Got a quick video of a failed attempt at courtship. It shows a bit of the male's maneuvers, and the dissapointment as she RUNS away!

http://s1085.photobucket.com/albums/j439/Sporeworld1/?action=view&amp;current=CreoMaleMatingDance024.mp4


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## PhilinYuma (May 6, 2011)

She'll be back! How long have the M and F been adults? Have you seen her calling? Temp and RH?

My interest has nothing to do with the fact that mine are 2 molts behind yours!


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## sporeworld (May 6, 2011)

Ha, ha, ha!

I've got a ceramic heat bulb (or whatever they're called) trained dead-center and they all kind of huddle near it (all the flies do). It's 85f/40rh in the cold spots, but probably 95 in the center (I only have the one meter in there, and I'm terrified to open the enclosure - there's like 20 winged creos seeking revenge! I've cooked them into killing machines!!!

I didn't see her calling in particular, but I think she was the one that just mated (you can see her abdomen pulsing and her back side looks like it's... recovering... from mating very recently. Not sure how to phrase that. I keep the camera handy, so I'll snap pics of what I can.

Haven't seen an ooth yet (any day now), and who knows if they'll be fertile, bt barring that, I'd say project way-too-hot was a success.


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## sporeworld (May 10, 2011)

Fairly consistent temps and humidity in the tank now (80F/60rh) seems to produce at least 2 females mating at any given moment (out of 6). I honestly can't tell them apart, and haven't marked them, so it could be just two really popular young ladies. Heating pad plus small flouros above. I had a ceramic heat lamp on them for a few days which seemed to stimulate the breeding. It's off now, but there's still plenty of "action".

One more act of cannibalism (male on male). Both were lurking on the bottom for several days, which seemed odd. I suspect one or both were getting too old. Maybe.


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## psyconiko (May 10, 2011)

I have tried to lower humidity recently,and I thought females were more agressive.But they keep laying.I had 3 more oothes today!


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## sporeworld (May 11, 2011)

Here's a video of an interested male trying to seduce a WAY NOT interested female.

http://s1085.photobucket.com/albums/j439/Sporeworld1/?action=view&amp;current=Creo-BestMaleattemptatmatingdance013.mp4


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## sporeworld (May 18, 2011)

So, first mating coming up on a month ago (I think around April 27th) and no ooths yet. Once they drop the first one, we'll have a good timeline here of nymph to ooth. I'll probably let that go full circle then we can have a nice new caresheet.


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## sporeworld (May 18, 2011)

BTW, there are ALWAYS stragglers. My LAST little male FINALLY molted to adult today. No idea why some in identical conditions can take so much longer....


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## Termite48 (May 26, 2011)

I am also rearing some Creo. pictipennis. I tried breeding one female to my only male and he was a little hesitant to say the least. He took flight and after catching him in my skylight well, he repeatedly escaped and finally after abot five times repeating this catch and escapre routine, I left him in the skylight well to teach him or me a lesson. I think we both learned something because when I finally rescued him an hour or so later, he was "dazed and confused". he actually fained death or was actually stunned perhaps from the severely strong light up in the skylight well. I placed him gently in the net cage, where he gradually came around. Now he is happily riding the back of the same female with whom I tried him yesterday. She, by the way, as he was mounted, gladly ate two BB's and at one point had one land right on her head. All is well in Creoville.


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## Zeebweeny (May 26, 2011)

Finnally read this thread and I'm glad to see that my lil babies are doing great! And don't worry ooths will come and lots of them. I had a batch with only 3 females, and I had 20+ ooths.


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## sporeworld (May 30, 2011)

Zeeb said:


> Finnally read this thread and I'm glad to see that my lil babies are doing great! And don't worry ooths will come and lots of them. I had a batch with only 3 females, and I had 20+ ooths.


Thanks, Zeeb.

You know, I read your post and thought, "Yeah... Where are all my zillion ooths...?"

So I pulled out my Creos (only females - all the males got munched), and cleaned out the cage. Could NOT find a single ooth. UNTIL... Until I turned over the heavily shaded, leaf covered back of my grapevine stumps. And what did I find...? Ten various sized ooths cleverly hidden from view! Those little sneaks!


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## sporeworld (May 30, 2011)

And ONE of those little gals was lookin' mighty suspicious... Less than an hour later, and looking a little shameful, I caught her laying yet another ooth...


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## psyconiko (May 30, 2011)

This is just a beginning....


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## sporeworld (Jul 8, 2011)

UPDATE:

Every one... EVERY ONE of those ooths was fertile. I found them late, gave them almost no attention, left town, and STILL they hatched!

As I close the book on this little thread, I'd highly recomend this species for new arrivals to our hobby. Great colors, plenty of wow factor, communal (within reason), tollerant of hot and cold, needs only modest humidity, and is a healty eatter, on easily available prey (ff's to bb's). A little bit of research and you'll be fine.

Thanks to everyone for their participation and suggestions!


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## sporeworld (Jul 18, 2011)

BTW, while supplies last, these are the Creos being offered as a "Thank You" for supporting this forum. Just click the bringht yellow and orange banner at the bottom of this page for details (again, while supplies last).

Cheers!


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## Merc (Jul 18, 2011)

Sporeworld said:


> BTW, while supplies last, these are the Creos being offered as a "Thank You" for supporting this forum. Just click the bringht yellow and orange banner at the bottom of this page for details (again, while supplies last).
> 
> Cheers!


I'm so getting in on this.  This is the post that inspired me to jump in on trying these guys communally and thus, my enclosure overhaul. &lt;3 Thank you for this thread.


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## sporeworld (Aug 17, 2011)

Note: Today I got my first 2nd Generation baby to adulthood. I had given nearly all of them away, so I lost track of which ooth he popped out of, but close enough for general records.

Good luck everyone, and enjoy!


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## Psychobunny (Sep 26, 2011)

I know this is an old thread, but the way I keep my Creo pictipennis happy is to put about 1/2 cup

of damp sphagnum moss with some branches and fake leaves in 8 X 6'' plastic clear container with

screen lid (I cut the top out and hot glue the screen).

I use a under tank heater from Bean Farm with a dimmer and thermometer with probe taped to the

heating pad, and keep it at 85F (I keep my house at about 72F, and they do not like it that cold!!)

This keeps them eating, molting and happy. They usualy can be found perched on the moss, which

should be replaced every other week.

You need that heat and added humidity for creo's, just dont over do it


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## psyconiko (Sep 26, 2011)

I found they can be raised at room temp,60 to 70% humidity,No water,no substrate,not even a twig needed.They almost never mismolt,if this occurs they will be fixed by next molt.

It is to me one of the easiest available flower mantis(pictipennis).

Plus they can be communal provided there is enough food.

Also they can tolerate extreme temp(100°F) and extreme moist(90%) even if kept in a confined glass terra.

What else?so nice and easy!


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## frogparty (Jan 16, 2012)

I love this thread! Goin to set up a nice 12x12x18 for my little group of Creo pictipennis nymphs


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## Chivalry (Jan 16, 2012)

Thanks for bumping this thread frogparty, I enjoyed it too. I have 3 C. gemmatus (currently L2-3ish), I'm wondering if they'll be ok together? I seem to recall something about bunches of semi-communal being better than a few.

And 1 pictipennis... and I was thinking about that provision 'if there's enough food'. Ha! There does not ever seem to be enough food for these guys. Kali (L4) is FAT FAT FAT and seems like she will always take more food. I liked the bit about the hydei snacks, I may have to do that for her. And maybe ease up on the bottle flies.


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## frogparty (Jan 16, 2012)

I currently have 10 L3 nymphs in an 8x12x6 tupperware tub set up with sphagnum and lots of twigs. I see the "swagger" a lot, but no casualties yet. I figure if I give them enough plants and twigs to make them all happy it shouldnt be a big deal.


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## sporeworld (Jan 26, 2012)

I made a brief edit to the beginning of this thread, to try and bring the new Creo owners in for a look-around. I've seen several Creo care sheets floating around, but I really enjoyed some of the discussions and disagreements in this thread. Thanks again for all the contributions.

PS: If anyone has any video or photos to add, please post them, or their links.


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## Chivalry (Jan 26, 2012)

Perhaps a creobroter consolidated? The idolo thread has been SO helpful to me and I don't think we should exclude other species just because they're "easy" to keep. In fact a section of the forum for Consolidated threads would be amazing. This thread is already beginning to look like one.

I've discovered that mine want it HOT, both pictipennis and gemmatus. Pictipennis is lethargic and boring unless I've kept her warm. And the new gemmatus colony is on the same shelf with the idolo, which of course is freaking hot, and you know where they all hang out? Wherever it's closest to the lamp, yesterday nearly 100 degrees.

I am thinking of doing a separate setup for males and one for females... or I could maybe put them all in the 12" net cube. I have 8 and I am wondering if that is too many for the 80 oz deli cup the 5 new ones are in. Does crowding seem to be a factor in cannibalism?

God they are pigs. I am stuffing as many fruit flies in their container of 5, as the one with 80 sinensis babies. Granted, they are older, but not that much bigger.


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## sporeworld (Jan 26, 2012)

I had my Idolos in a test cage with a big metal lamp actually TOUCHING the top screen. They wouldn't sit UNDER the lamp, but riiiiiight next to it - maybe 3cm away, and gather around it like it was a fireplace. And it probably wasn't far from it. Easily 120 degrees at the edge.

As for crowding, I found that as long as they're kept WELL fed (big, healthy looking, almost bulging bellies), the next best thing you can do is have an uncluttered habitat. They run away, stare down, or just snap at each other, if they can see the threat coming. Leaving molting as the biggest remaining threat (they love chomping that soft, fresh flesh). So, the final judge of crowding seems to be - do they have enough space to molt in relative safety, without appearing TOO tempting to their peers.

And remember - once you have adult females, all bets are off.


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## itzjustjeff (Apr 26, 2012)

I noticed you mentioned that you didn't do much with the ooths after they were laid. Does that mean they do not have to go through diapause?


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## agent A (Apr 26, 2012)

creo ooths never need diapause


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## dlemmings (Apr 26, 2012)

COOL! my creo P. laid an ooth, soon as she lays a second I will ship it to Pragmatichominid as per our trade agreement.

i guess in 6-8 weeks I may be offering some of these guys on the forum...


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## itzjustjeff (Apr 26, 2012)

me too  7-9 weeks though! I'm having trouble with one of my males though. He seems to completely ignore the female as if there were something over the horizon. He gets uncomfortably close to her raptorials. Would it be possible to have one of my older males continue mating with my females? Can he run out?


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## agent A (Apr 26, 2012)

I find real old males have problems keepin it in there if u know wat I'm saying...


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## dlemmings (Apr 26, 2012)

cant hurt to try...well maybe it could if she get pissy...lol


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## sporeworld (May 2, 2012)

Didn't know where else to put this, but here's a picture of one of my sub Creo's, taken by an actual photographer friend of mine. I love that you can see the patterns of the wings, even though it's not adult yet....


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## agent A (May 2, 2012)

Sporeworld said:


> Didn't know where else to put this, but here's a picture of one of my sub Creo's, taken by an actual photographer friend of mine. I love that you can see the patterns of the wings, even though it's not adult yet....


that's a pseudocreobotra


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## sporeworld (May 2, 2012)

Well, sure - go ahead and use your stoopid FACTS on me!! Of COURSE, I know what it (ahem) is. I mean, it's got... um... "creo" right there in the, uh... middle of the name. I-I was just saving k-keystrokes. A-and, how do YOU know it's not an ALBINO Creo, huh? Maybe, just kinda,,, "hornier"?

So... you know... um, Lady Gaga and stuff...

Hurmph.

(Where's that durn blushing emoticon when you need it)

:shifty:


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## agent A (May 2, 2012)

lol too funny

u could post it in the photo section though


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## gripen (May 2, 2012)

Sporeworld said:


> Didn't know where else to put this, but here's a picture of one of my sub Creo's, taken by an actual photographer friend of mine. I love that you can see the patterns of the wings, even though it's not adult yet....


Gee send me some of your creos... I have never seen anything like em... LOL they are psuedocreos!


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## sporeworld (May 2, 2012)

Har DEE har ha!


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## Assault Ferret (Jul 8, 2012)

Sporeworld said:


> I made a brief edit to the beginning of this thread, to try and bring the new Creo owners in for a look-around. I've seen several Creo care sheets floating around, but I really enjoyed some of the discussions and disagreements in this thread. Thanks again for all the contributions.
> 
> PS: If anyone has any video or photos to add, please post them, or their links.


Any way someone could point me in the right direction for one of those care sheets? My research (including this thread) has given me considerable confidence that my little creo nymph will be just fine..but I wanna make sure he/she grows up to be a happy healthy adult  

Also, care sheet or no..what is a good enclosure size guideline for a single creo nymph?


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## Sneaky123 (Jul 9, 2012)

Well, this thread is going to prove helpful for me, as I am getting my first creos from Jeff


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## agent A (Jul 9, 2012)

Sneaky123 said:


> Well, this thread is going to prove helpful for me, as I am getting my first creos from Jeff


creos r great

they like it between 70 and 90 degrees


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## Sneaky123 (Jul 12, 2012)

Okay I'll keep that in mind. I like that little dance they do lol


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## drolkp84 (Nov 7, 2012)

Waiting impatiently for my creo ooth to hatch... LOVE THIS THREAD!!!!!! Sporeworld thanks.


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## drolkp84 (Nov 7, 2012)

Ur logs really gave me more confidence


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