# How in the world?.....



## yeatzee (Jan 31, 2010)

Ok so on my way out of my house I checked on the gongylus to see if the HF's have hatched yet. Sadly none have, but I still saw one eating something. Upon closer examination i discovered something rather shocking. It was eating an L1 stagmomantis limbata!! Now I have a bunch of them in a cage about a foot away, so I thought nothing of it..... just a lone escapee. Than I looked closer and realized the whole net cage was crawling with L1 nymphs!!!

Confused, I searched for a hole in either the net cage or Stagmomantis nymph cage and there was none! Than I discovered something shocking.

When I "decorated" my gongylus' cage I placed a random stick inside for good measure. I chose one that had two infertile ooths on the end and placed them on the clear plastic wall so i could show visitors what ooths look like easily while showing them the gongies. Now I joined this forum originally because I had a surplus of S. Limbata's in my yard and I wanted to mate a few. Well After trying a few times my females laid several ooths. The first of which was laid in the beginning of November and hatched on Dec. 16th 2008..... This ooth was one of the last laid by this female so it was laid somewhere in between November and December 08.







This ooth, I discovered, had hatched! With 50+ nymphs! Could someone explain to me how this is possible?

(Side note: this stick with the ooths on it was kept in an extra critter keeper since it was laid.... kept side by side with my mantids.)


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## massaman (Jan 31, 2010)

was it laid outside then maybe it was in diapause or something and brought in then it was incubating and eventually hatched!


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## yeatzee (Jan 31, 2010)

massaman said:


> was it laid outside then maybe it was in diapause or something and brought in then it was incubating and eventually hatched!


No, it was laid on a branch in the female's enclosure, than the branch was moved to a seperate critter keeper for hatching. It never did hatch so I assumed it was infertile. Its been kept above 70 degrees since it was laid.


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## Rick (Jan 31, 2010)

No idea why but that is cool.


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## yeatzee (Jan 31, 2010)

Rick said:


> No idea why but that is cool.


Ha, well as if I dont have enough limbata's already thanks to kamakiri   

The gongylus are loving them though


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## Katnapper (Jan 31, 2010)

Wow... :lol: what an strange event, lol.  So are you just going to let the Gongys have them, or are you going to try to take any out and raise in a seperate enclosure/s?


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## yeatzee (Jan 31, 2010)

Katnapper said:


> Wow... :lol: what an strange event, lol.  So are you just going to let the Gongys have them, or are you going to try to take any out and raise in a seperate enclosure/s?


Im letting the gongies thin the numbers a bit as there are just to many currently.

If anyone has an idea on how this is possible please fill me in!


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## Katnapper (Jan 31, 2010)

yeatzee said:


> Im letting the gongies thin the numbers a bit as there are just to many currently.If anyone has an idea on how this is possible please fill me in!


Transfer one by one using chopstick or skewer. Circus leader/coordinator skills required. Nymph wrangling... gotta love it!  :lol:


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## kamakiri (Feb 1, 2010)

Katnapper said:


> Transfer one by one using chopstick or skewer. Circus leader/coordinator skills required. Nymph wrangling... gotta love it!  :lol:


+1

I'd do it regardless. How upset would you be if one of those nymphs damaged one of the gongys?

If the ooth is still hatching another 50...it could become a problem.

It is a bit surprising that this is possible. Some other insects employ an 'every other year' strategy to avoid getting wiped out by a bad year. For all we know, it may be more common than we think...and maybe some of those ooths that we think are done for the year will still hatch some out the following year. Thanks for posting about this. Very, very interesting.


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## sufistic (Feb 1, 2010)

It's good that you still kept those ooths though! So they actually hatched after more than a year. Very interesting!


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## yeatzee (Feb 1, 2010)

kamakiri said:


> +1I'd do it regardless. How upset would you be if one of those nymphs damaged one of the gongys?
> 
> If the ooth is still hatching another 50...it could become a problem.
> 
> .


All the gongies have molted, and the limbata's are about the size of a gongylus's head currently. I dont see how they could damage one, but they've thinned out a huge number of them so when I get home from school they are getting transfered.  



kamakiri said:


> It is a bit surprising that this is possible. Some other insects employ an 'every other year' strategy to avoid getting wiped out by a bad year. For all we know, it may be more common than we think...and maybe some of those ooths that we think are done for the year will still hatch some out the following year. Thanks for posting about this. Very, very interesting


 Definite food for thought. I've never been one to throw away ooths, but for you guys I'd say think twice about it.  Its really interesting because this was the only one that didn't hatch out of all the others.


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## yeatzee (Feb 1, 2010)

sufistic said:


> It's good that you still kept those ooths though! So they actually hatched after more than a year. Very interesting!


Yes, I've kept every ooth ever laid from any of my mantids.... I have the room so why throw them out?  

And yes, they hatched over a year later.... astonishing to me personally. I mean you can imagine my look of confusion when I found out what ooth had hatched!


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## idolomantis (Feb 1, 2010)

Makes wme wonder if this could also happen with ooths of different sp.


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## sufistic (Feb 1, 2010)

idolomantis said:


> Makes wme wonder if this could also happen with ooths of different sp.


Exactly idolo, I'm definitely not gonna throw away any ooths now!


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## yen_saw (Feb 1, 2010)

This is possible for Stagmomantis carolina, especially if the ootheca does not go through cold period. The ootheca could hold on without hatching for entire year and but if the ootheca is left to cold weather again it will still hatch the following year. Happen to me before, and also to someone else i sent the S. carolina ooth to, can't remember who (raise your hand please  ) in the forum, but he told me the S. carolina ooth was left in the garage (cold in winter) and hatch out the following Spring (more than a year since the ooth was laid). I have no experience with S. limbata, but maybe it is the same for all Stagmomantis spp in cold winter region.


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## PhilinYuma (Feb 1, 2010)

I ama little surprized that experienced S. limbata breeders find this puzzling. I can only imagine that you are much better organized than I. Ooths of this species certainly lie doormant during the mild Sonoran winters. The region's first rainy season (the second is the summer monsoon) which we are experiencing now, with its increase in humidity, and warmer weather around March, may be the triggers for eclosion in this species, rather than the lengthening photoperiod. Indoors, photoperiod and temperature are both somewhat stable and it may be that an increase in humidity, where there is no regular misting,may trigger eclosure.

Guesswork aside, I have seen several S. limbata ooths, abandoned in the belief that they were infertile, eclose after a prolonged dry spell -- which they would certainly experience in the desert -- after being moistened. I suspect, Tanner, that your ooth "revived' after being exposed to frequent mistings in the gongy enclosure.

My mantis raising goals will be modest this year, but this is one of the things that I shall be looking at.


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## yeatzee (Feb 3, 2010)

Well I did not realize that there were more than just one ooth that did not hatch when the others did.... until I found my bug room crawling with limbata nymphs. Sure enough i found the ooth that had hatched, which was laid the same time as the one this thread originated from. As was the first, I did not remove the at the time unhatched ooth from its stick which was also kept.  

So now I've "accidently" let loose some FF's because I don't have the time to round all of them up


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## Katnapper (Feb 4, 2010)

yeatzee said:


> Well I did not realize that there were more than just one ooth that did not hatch when the others did.... until I found my bug room crawling with limbata nymphs. Sure enough i found the ooth that had hatched, which was laid the same time as the one this thread originated from. As was the first, I did not remove the at the time unhatched ooth from its stick which was also kept.  So now I've "accidently" let loose some FF's because I don't have the time to round all of them up


My first 2 _Hierodula membranacea _"renegades" from a loose hatching molted to adult recently.  I've got 2 different "generations" (from different ooths laid at different times) growing up loose in the bug room, lol. Maybe yours could be a "_limbata_" room! :lol:


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## yeatzee (Feb 4, 2010)

Katnapper said:


> My first 2 _Hierodula membranacea _"renegades" from a loose hatching molted to adult recently.  I've got 2 different "generations" (from different ooths laid at different times) growing up loose in the bug room, lol. Maybe yours could be a "_limbata_" room! :lol:


Ha! I would actually love that, but I am very good about keeping feeders where they should be sadly.  

Than again I could let it slide every once in a while


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