# Are All These Mantids Good for Begginers?



## Cole 78 (Nov 12, 2018)

Hello everyone!

I recently stumbled across this hobby, and wanted to partake in it. It all started when I was young. I used to sit in my backyard staring at the "Green and Brown Mantids" that lived in my yard. This was way back when I was around 8. Fast forward to today. I was walking out school campus and saw a large "Brown" mantis molting. I the surfed the web to see how I could get into the hobby. I found this forum, and did some reaserch. I am going to buy a few mantids and wanted to see if they are interesting to keep/ good for beginners. Here is everything I am buying and wanted to make sure that's also all I need.

From @MantisGirl13

x2  32 oz Deli cups w/ screen lid

x5 Ghost Nymphs

x1 Mister

x1 FF Culture

From a different seller:

x1 Hierodula Blue L3

x1 Hymenopus Coronatus (Orchid) L1-L2

x1 Mystery Box with either Ooth or Mantis and Accesories

x1 Rhombodera sp. (Red Devil) L1-L2

x5 32 oz Deli Cups w/ Screen Lid

x100 Waxworms

X11 Mystery Mantis

Peat Moss (For Bottom of Enclosure)

From PetCo:

Eco Earth

Decor (Sticks, Flowers, etc)

One problem, I am broke. I spend unwisely. I make big purchases, and then have nothing left. Like my camera, or clothes, or something. I have like $4. And this all is going to cost more that $4 hehe. My Dad said he can give me a loan though. 

-Cole


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## ohaple (Nov 12, 2018)

Looks like a good list generally but here are a few things I learned when starting that you might find helpful:


This hobby is stupid cheap if you stay with deli containers and cheese puff containers, but can get expensive fast when you start to do upgrades. Lighting, timers, heaters, different containers, fake plants, hygrometers, etc. can quickly add up to many hundreds of dollars. If money is a concern, and since you are a new keeper, I would stick to fewer mantises.

You do not list enough containers to house all of the mantises. If I am reading right, you plan to order 20 mantises. You then need 20 containers. Remember the 3x/2x rule for container sizes.

I would not get a large quantity of mystery mantises. Some species are harder to keep, have different enclosure requirements, and you might be setting yourself up for failure by possibly getting 10 different species all at once.

I have read very mixed reviews on waxworms, but not tried them myself. I find that our mantises will not strike at most worms. You will probably be better off with flies or dubias. Get housefly or blue bottle fly pupae to keep in the fridge. Flies are the favorite food of ours.

L1/L2 mantises are likely to be less satisfying since they are so dang small and have so many molts to go. I would start with L3-5 on all of mine. Make sure you have appropriate fruit flies. There are different varieties and L1/2 orchids may not be able to eat the larger varieties.

Looks like you are probably ordering from USMantis or Mantisplace. I haven't worked with them, but have read mixed reviews of USMantis. Make sure to check out the breeder review section on here before ordering from anyone. I am sure @MantisGirl13 will do a good job for you, and I have used MantidsGalore with great success.

I have found that tweezers or forceps are very useful for feeding. We also use a little ladle for feeding to get the food into position below the mantis without having to take it out. This is important for non-climbing prey like roaches that tend to burrow.

You will want at least one or two hygrometer/thermometers.

You will probably need a large heat mat or heat lamp for some of the species you listed.

We have discussed lighting on here before, and the idea that light cycles might be important for mantises. I would recommend some sort of lighting and a timer to set day/night cycle.

Order water crystals for your feeders. It makes their care much easier. This does not include FF, which already have their moisture built into the food.

Winter shipping will likely require expedited shipping with special considerations. Do not be surprised when shipping costs as much as the products you are ordering.

Best of luck, I am sure other more experienced people will chine in to help as well.


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## Cole 78 (Nov 12, 2018)

Wow @ohaple that was really helpful! I plan on housing my ghosts communally. I also have a couple containers myself. Thank you!


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## Mystymantis (Nov 12, 2018)

As a beginner, I would recommend staying with easy to keep species such as Ghosts, Chinese mantises, Carolina mantises, Giant Asian mantids and such. There are a few other easy to keep mantises as well.  I would not recommend Orchid mantises until you have kept a few easier to keep ones. They have special requirements that might be difficult to start out as, and they are expensive.  Mystery mantises also might not be the best idea since you will not know what type you are getting.

You also might not want to keep so many if this is your first time having mantises. Mantises are easy to care for, well for the most part that is, but having a lot makes it harder. And species that need heating, specific humidity and such are more difficult. Maybe wait on the more exotic species until you have been successful with easier ones and then get them later.

These are just my recommendations, feel free to do as you feel your skill levels are at. And of course good luck and have fun with your mantises whatever ones you get. 

Blue bottle flies and crickets and or roaches are the best feeders in my opinion. And fruit flies and hydei flies for smaller mantises. Wax worms aren't really eaten by mantises in my experiences with them.

And if you have specific questions just ask! Lots of knowledgeable people here.

Good luck.


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## Cole 78 (Nov 12, 2018)

Thank you!


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## Synapze (Nov 12, 2018)

All you need to get started is a cup, a stick, a paper towel, a mist bottle, fruit flies, and a hardy species of mantis. Creativity will take care of the rest. 

Cheapest hobby I've ever had.


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## Cole 78 (Nov 12, 2018)

Is 1 stick fine? Or do I need multiple for 1 mantis?

@Synapze

what at about my setup that will have 5 ghost nymphs, that should have multiple, right? Also, is it all right to get sticks from outside?


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## ohaple (Nov 12, 2018)

Major said:


> Is 1 stick fine? Or do I need multiple for 1 mantis?
> 
> @Synapze
> 
> what at about my setup that will have 5 ghost nymphs, that should have multiple, right? Also, is it all right to get sticks from outside?


1 stick per is fine for most species. They usually use the lid anyways. For outside sticks some people recommend sterilizing in the oven. Other people just risk it and use sticks from outside. We sterilized ours for peace of mind.


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## Cole 78 (Nov 12, 2018)

@ohaple how long should I put them in the oven for, and at what temp?


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## ohaple (Nov 12, 2018)

Major said:


> @ohaple how long should I put them in the oven for, and at what temp?


Here is a good guide.  https://animals.mom.me/disinfect-stick-lizard-2187.html


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## Cole 78 (Nov 12, 2018)

I read it. I will do that. Thank you all for the help!


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## ausar318 (Nov 12, 2018)

I agree with Synapze, but definitely see the merit in the very descriptive reply from ohaple. Mantids, in my opinion, are what you make them, cost-wise. 

For example, my first exotic mantids (God bless my ignorance ) were a L5 orchid female and a L3 orchid male. (As a side note, from someone who started with orchids, I would definitely not suggest it. They do require some special attention that makes them significantly harder than other species). Anyway, I did all my research, bought all the right equipment, collected some springtails from my garden, and got a decent size Dubia colony going. In the end, I had $45 invested in the orchids. Meanwhile, all the equipment cost me well over $100. I didn’t realize how much was required if you want to keep a mantis in optimal conditions, to emulate its natural environment. Anyway, those two mantids cost me close to $150 when it was all said and done. 

So what I’m saying now, is more slanted towards Synapze’s reply. All you really need is what he listed. But it works better with certain species. Orchids, frankly, aren’t really one of those species. Not saying that it can’t be done, because it certainly has (and is).

there are certainly a few things that are VERY important. The first is just a fly culture. A simple Hydei or Melo culture. I’d actually suggest having at least 3: one for feeding, one for seeding new cultures, and a backup seeder that you keep in another room (in case the one becomes infected with MITES! lol). I turned a $7 vial of 50 flies into the 10 bursting cultures I have now, but it has taken almost four months. I’m set for the rest of my life  (jokingly of course)

next up, I’d suggest having another food source, for when the nymph is a bit larger. I have a Dubia colony going, and I just bought $500 red runners, so I’m hoping to get a colony of those also. The red runners are perfect for small to medium nymphs, and the dubias are perfect for medium to large nymphs, as well as adults. I’ve been reading into getting a moth culture going, but I’m still on the fence about that. But I just got 350 beemoth grubs today, so I’ve got to decide quick 

theres a lot of other things to factor in, but I think the others have done an excellent job covering them. So I’ll just finish on one last note. Or rather, a warning! Since mantids are relatively easy to keep, and not that expensive once you get some of the big costs out of the way, you can be tempted to get TOO many nymphs. I tell you this because it’s what’s happening to me right now. I’ve recently come into some money (extra scholarships!), and I’ve gone way overboard with my purchasing. I now have over 50 assorted nymphs, all ranging from L3 to adult. And that’s not even counting the 50+ L1-2 Creobroter nymphs that i just hatched recently. I’ve got 20 breeding pairs, all presub or subadult, except for my orchids, which are adults. And I’ve got 8 ooths in the figurative oven, all of which should hopefully hatch in the next few weeks. I think I’ve listed enough to get the point across, that it’s easy to spend a lot of money. Just be careful, unlike me . But the way I see it, as long as you can handle them all, get as many as you want! I’ve only had 4 deaths in my bug corner, three of which were unavoidable mismolts. The last one was a panther mantis nymph that only made it two days after I got him. The shipping was just too much for the little fella. 

Anyway, there’s my two cents


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## Connor (Nov 12, 2018)

Well most of the others covered everything pretty well but I have a few things to chime in about. 

Orchids. Orchids are wayyyy easier than everyone makes them out to be. Don’t make it more expensive and give yourself more work to do. Stick to the basics. 32 oz container with a paper towel at the bottom and maybe throw in some sticks or fake flowers. Lasts males their entire lives and lasts females up until adulthood. My first mantis more than a year ago were a orchid and a E. Musarum(I was ignorant at the time and bought two not common species XD). But they both made it to adulthood easily! Just the simple deli cup setup makes everything easier. Just be sure to mist like 2-3 times a week. 

Just don’t overwhelm yourself! That’s the way to kill the drive for this hobby. I had filled up my entire bedroom of Mantids at one point and it was way too stressful and killed my love for the hobby. I’m back now and not gonna make the same mistake.

Also as far as I’m aware Exo is the only one with these “Red Devils”. I know a couple in the US have ooths but I haven’t heard about them hatching. Did you get them from exo? He’s a pretty reliable seller but the problem is he is shipping from Poland and it takes a little while and the shipping ain’t cheap lol. And most likely you’ll end up with a lot of casualties coming from him just because of the long shipping. And with the recent temps in my area... that’s a huge risk man.


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## ausar318 (Nov 12, 2018)

I agree with Connor, especially about the shipping from Poland. I had a friend who ordered around $100 worth of nymphs from Exo, and he only had one nymph survive the trip, and it died soon after it arrive. The box spent about two weeks in shipping, if I remember correctly. And with the weather getting colder (at least here in the Midwest), there’s just no way to safely import nymphs from another country safely.


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## Cole 78 (Nov 12, 2018)

Ah, OK. I guess I will try a US seller.


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## Graceface (Nov 12, 2018)

I agree with everyone about staying modest to start. It is very easy to overwhelm yourself! Stick to easy species at first (Ghosts are an excellent starter species, and Mantisgirl13 is a great person to buy from!). 

I only keep Orchids and Ghosts currently and just having a large number of 2 species is enough to keep me quite busy!

I echo what everyone else has said about Orchids: While they may not be 'hard' to care for, they do require special conditions which are likely different than your home is normally. To keep them appropriately, you need humidifiers, heating, thermostats and hygrometers, etc to ensure your habitat is kept within range, and as Ausar318 said, this can get spendy very quickly. Orchid nymphs aren't cheap, either.

I highly recommend starting with a species that won't require this kind of equipment and working your way up from there. Ghosts, a sprayer, some cheap plastic 32oz containers with lids, and climbing surfaces are all you need to get going. As a young guy with a limited budget, this is a fun and affordable way to get into the hobby

Also, I use plastic canvas as a climbing surface instead of sticks. It is around .70 per sheet at Hobby Lobby or any craft store. You can trim it to whatever size you need and it can be sterilized and reused. You can get it in a variety of colors, too. 

Good luck!


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## Cole 78 (Nov 12, 2018)

I've decided just to get what I am buying from MantisGirl13 and this https://usmantis.com/products/hierodula-majuscula-giant-rainforest-mantis?variant=41319564756 and Accesories and stuff.


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## Connor (Nov 12, 2018)

@Graceface Lol I have always kept my orchids in a 32oz, paper towel on bottom, some sticks, and kept them at room temp while spraying the enclosure every other day. Never lost one keeping them that way. And I spent only a couple bucks on the setup, not even that much XD. But the nymphs are expensive. Idrk if it’s because they are uncommon or just because people see them in such a special light


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## Connor (Nov 12, 2018)

@Major I’d be careful with USmantis. He’s been unreliable in the past and I’ve always found his stuff way overpriced. @DeShawnand his website mantidkingdom.com literally always has the BEST deals and he has the best customer service. Never had anything less than perfection with him


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## Graceface (Nov 12, 2018)

@Connor You are a lucky guy! Im jealous  Glad you've had success with a low cost Orchid setup. Not everyone can make that work for a tropical species. 

 Temperatures and humidity can vary widely, depending on where you live. In my area, ambient indoor RH is 30% (or lower with heat on). Even daily misting isn't enough to maintain high humidity inside my enclosures. I couldnt imagine keeping my orchids humid enough without a humidifier and controller!

 Temps here can fall well below Orchid range if left at 'room' temp. Even the warmest spot in my house wouldn't stay the right temp in the winter without added heat sources. 

There is more than one way to get things done, true, but the best (and safest) way to be sure you provide the specific conditions a tropical mantis needs is to use climate control.


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## ausar318 (Nov 12, 2018)

@Major

Check here for some H. Majuscula: 

http://mantidsgalore.com/product/herodula-majuscula-giant-rainforest-mantis/

She’s got a handful of presubs for a decent price. And I’ve worked with Patty before, and she is pretty consistently awesome!


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## ohaple (Nov 12, 2018)

ausar318 said:


> @Major
> 
> Check here for some H. Majuscula:
> 
> ...


THIS!! My H. Majuscula was probably from the same ooth as her current stock. He is sub adult. He is the most interesting and dynamic of all of our mantids. He readily takes food, and is happy to be handled. Patty has been great to work with. We also get our feeders from her and her pricing seems very competitive. She was one of the only ones with banana roaches when we were looking. We have ordered dubias, banana roaches, fruit flies, house fly pupae, and blue bottle spikes from her. Its always been well packed and healthy.

How can you say no to this face...


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## Mantis Lady (Nov 12, 2018)

Ghosts and hierodula masjasculas are a good beginner species. Mine are in deli cups, the ghosts are in a bit smaller cups. With paper towel on bottom with a fake plant to climb one. Keep in mind you should rehouse the Hierodulas in future because they are getting big and need space to have a good molt.

But I advise you to sepparate the ghosts, they are communual, but they can be cannabalistic too. With me, my ghosts have their own cups.



Connor said:


> Lol I have always kept my orchids in a 32oz, paper towel on bottom, some sticks, and kept them at room temp while spraying the enclosure every other day.


I thought they needed a lot of heat and stuff. That is why I am not trying to keep a orchid (but I like them)


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## Mantis Lady (Nov 12, 2018)

I can't say no to his face and that is why I have a couple of them


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## Cole 78 (Nov 12, 2018)

As the most indecisive person on this forum, I decided on something else. Orchid, Tarachodula pantherina, and Thistle. Also, Ghost.


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## ohaple (Nov 12, 2018)

Major said:


> As the most indecisive person on this forum, I decided on something else. Orchid, Tarachodula pantherina﻿, and Thistle﻿. Also, Ghost.


Thats a cool variety of species. I only have experience with ghosts out of that list. Remember to include heating supplies to your shopping list if you are going to get thistle mantises. Most care sheets I have seen require mid 80s. The other ones you are getting would benefit from being kept above room temp also.


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 12, 2018)

Major said:


> As the most indecisive person on this forum, I decided on something else. Orchid, Tarachodula pantherina, and Thistle. Also, Ghost.


Thistles are tricky because of their need for high heat. I made the mistake of having some as my first exotics and I regret it now because they all died.

Patty is THE BEST, btw. She and DeShawn got me into exotic mantids and I have made countless purchases from them, and Patty is one of my friends. 

- MantisGirl13


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## Graceface (Nov 12, 2018)

Little Mantis said:


> I thought they needed a lot of heat and stuff. That is why I am not trying to keep a orchid (but I like them)


Temp range for Orchids is around 21c/70f to 32c/90f. I keep my females around 28 or 29 c (85ish f) and my males around 23c (72 or 73 f). I couldn't provide this temp personally without heat mats on controllers, or something comparable.


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 12, 2018)

Graceface said:


> Temp range for Orchids is around 21c/70f to 32c/90f. I keep my females around 28 or 29 c (85ish f) and my males around 23c (72 or 73 f). I couldn't provide this temp personally without heat mats on controllers, or something comparable.


I am keeping all of my L2s and my L3 around 75-80 f and they are doing well. When I can tell genders I will heat the females a bit more and cool the males a bit more. They are definitely easier than I thought! 

- MantisGirl13


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## Graceface (Nov 12, 2018)

MantisGirl13 said:


> I am keeping all of my L2s and my L3 around 75-80 f and they are doing well. When I can tell genders I will heat the females a bit more and cool the males a bit more. They are definitely easier than I thought!
> 
> - MantisGirl13


Yes, outside of the environmental conditions required, they are pretty easy. I've found that keeping them cooler makes them unhappy and lethargic. My males have done well in the low 70s, like 72 or 73.


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 12, 2018)

Ok, Thanks! I will keep that in mind. I was not planning to go lower than 70 anyway.

- MantisGirl13


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## Mantis Lady (Nov 12, 2018)

Graceface said:


> Temp range for Orchids is around 21c/70f to 32c/90f. I keep my females around 28 or 29 c (85ish f) and my males around 23c (72 or 73 f). I couldn't provide this temp personally without heat mats on controllers, or something comparable.


I can keep an orchid at 21C? My room temp is around that,( in the night it will be 17C.)


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## Connor (Nov 12, 2018)

I don’t think I’d recommend thistles. They are definitely more difficult then most. You need high temps and sometimes they can just be picky. Last batch I got they all went to presub and just stopped eating. Lost them all and still don’t know why. My new batch are at the presub range and eating a ton so fingerss crossed I can get them to adult


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 12, 2018)

Connor said:


> I don’t think I’d recommend thistles. They are definitely more difficult then most. You need high temps and sometimes they can just be picky. Last batch I got they all went to presub and just stopped eating. Lost them all and still don’t know why. My new batch are at the presub range and eating a ton so fingerss crossed I can get them to adult


I hope you get them all to adult! I got one to adult, but she mismolted over final molt and only lived a few days.

- MantisGirl13


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## Cole 78 (Nov 12, 2018)

I ordered the the three mantids! Can't wait till the ghosts are ready so I can get  those too!


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## Graceface (Nov 12, 2018)

Little Mantis said:


> I can keep an orchid at 21C? My room temp is around that,( in the night it will be 17C.)


21 c is the bottom end of the range. They do better 23 to 29


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## Mantis Lady (Nov 13, 2018)

Graceface said:


> 21 c is the bottom end of the range. They do better 23 to 29


Then i keep only the ones, i can keep on room temperature.


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 13, 2018)

Major said:


> I ordered the the three mantids! Can't wait till the ghosts are ready so I can get  those too!


Great! I will definitely let you know when the ghosts are ready! 

- MantisGirl13


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## Mystymantis (Nov 13, 2018)

Major said:


> I ordered the the three mantids! Can't wait till the ghosts are ready so I can get  those too!


Awesome good luck with your mantises! Ghosts are a lot of fun with their cool looks and interesting behaviors.


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## Foxhill (Nov 16, 2018)

Dont Run Before you can Walk..   Good Luck !


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## Jaywo (Nov 16, 2018)

I agree that Thistles are picky. I would also highly recommend you keeping them apart. I tried communal living just when they were under L3 and one of them lost 1/4 of her face (yes she is still alive and somehow eating, albeit always partial foods; readying for a molt). If you do the Thistles, low humidity, high heat and feed them often. Good Luck!


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## Connor (Nov 16, 2018)

@Jaywo dang... that’s a interesting communal story. I am currently keeping presub/sub female thistles together and presub/sub males together. So far so good. Keeping my fingers crossed


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## Jaywo (Nov 16, 2018)

Connor said:


> @Jaywo dang... that’s a interesting communal story. I am currently keeping presub/sub female thistles together and presub/sub males together. So far so good. Keeping my fingers crossed


I may have just had a very very mean girl in the mist. Hearing your good luck, I may try again to put them all in the same environment today.


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## MantisGirl13 (Nov 16, 2018)

What an interesting story, Jaywo! I hope she heals next molt!

- MantisGirl13


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