# Corn Sakes?



## AmandaLynn (May 26, 2011)

Well I've never really been into snakes but my kids like them. So for my daughters 10th B-day I got her a baby corn snake and sadly it died  So instead of getting another baby I got her a full grown corn snake as a replacement and, it's really big :blink: . I think maybe exceptionally big :huh: for a corn, but I try to pretend like it doesn't scare me  even though it does a little. So, if you have an adult or juvie corn snake please share your pictures I would really like to see them.

Thanks~

P.S. I will upload pics w/in the next day or two.


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## Rick (May 26, 2011)

I'll have to see if I have any pics of the one I had. I gave him away to another keeper becuase the snake only came out at night which I found a bit boring.


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## GreenOasis (May 26, 2011)

Pictured below, Jin is our oldest &amp; largest cornsnake. (We are primarily breeders of cornsnakes, et al...mantids are a hobby that snowballed!)  

Anywho, he started out the same size as any other cornsnake, but I think because he was one of our first, he got a little more care &amp; attention...and FOOD!  It's difficult to tell by the pics because I don't have anything in there to scale it to (and I can't find my pic of me holding him), but we measured him the other day and he's 4.5 feet long &amp; over 1000 grams! :blink: 

I posted a pic of me holding him once on a cornsnake forum and I got MANY replies from experienced keepers/breeders on how big he was! On average, they grow to be 3-4 ft long and rarely go above 500 grams.

Good news is that, since yours is already tamed nicely, you'll never have to worry about it "going wild" on you! There have been times when I have gotten so busy with other things that I haven't been able to get Jin out for a month and he was still fine &amp; puppy dog tame! (Oh, and then there's the "long sleep" in winter, where he doesn't get ANY interaction, not even food for two months!) He is the one snake I would trust ANYONE to hold! Even my daughter when she was two-years old!

Just keep interacting with yours and you should have no problems trusting it even if it gets HUGE like our Jin.  







Here he is more recently, in shed:


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## AmandaLynn (May 28, 2011)

Wow 4.5 feet is pretty big! He's a pretty snake, thanks for sharing your photos  

My daughter's is over 4 feet but I don't think it's quite 4.5. It's 2 1/2 years old and "her" name is Ginger. We don't really know if it's male or female so my daughter just decided to call it a girl  Anyway, here's a couple pics.


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## GreenOasis (May 31, 2011)

"She" looks about the right size for a corn, not overly large, not too little.

You can tell the sex easiest by looking at the tail. Long tail = male, short tail = female. Not always 100% accurate, but good enough for a pet. Of course, it helps if you have another few corns to compare it to!  

If you can get a good pic of it from above next to something of standard measure (like a dollar bill, ruler, or sharpie), I have a program that can accurately measure it for you. And if you can get a pic of the underside of it the same way, I could probably use the same program to measure the tail &amp; give you a guess. But...not going to matter much if you guys are already set on it being a girl.


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## AmandaLynn (Jun 2, 2011)

Well, by comparing pics with your male just judging by the tail I'm gonna guess that Ginger is actually a male. But like you mentioned it's really not important since it's already been decided to name "her" Ginger. We won't be breeding "her", she's strictly a pet and I doubt she cares whether or not we refer to her by the correct gender, LOL.

She's usually pretty friendly, but a couple of times after removing the hide she was in, to take her out, she rattled her tail like a rattlesnake, which scared my daughter. So I would hold her climbing branches near her head just in case she got defensive and felt like she needed to strike but, it ended up serving as more of a distraction than barrier. She just smells it, like, "where did that come from?" and not really notice's that she was being taken from her safe place. That only happened a couple of times though, once she's out she's fine and just hangs out or looks for ways to get in the pockets or up or down into the shirt of whoever's holding her.

If I happen to get some good pictures of her tail I will post them. Thanks for all your input GreenOasis!  

~Amanda~


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## GreenOasis (Jun 2, 2011)

The rattling of the tail is just a startle defense, meaning that your snake was just startled by the sudden removal of her hiding place. Explain to your girls that it would be like a giant suddenly ripping the roof off of your house &amp; reaching in at you. Even though your snake knows &amp; remembers that you won't hurt it, it still scares the living daylights out of them!

The only time you'd need to worry is if she coils back to strike, even after giving her a moment to realize that it's you. Hubby will put his hand down in front of them (slowly) after he removes their hide and lets them sniff that it's him before removing them from their enclosure (I'm a bit more unceremonious about it, since I know that their teeth don't hurt, even if they do bite.) Admittedly, his technique makes for a calmer snake, but when I have a hundred cages to clean in just a couple of hours, I have to kind of ignore their feelings for a few minutes. (I'm so mean...just ask my kids!)  I'm only more cautious when I know I have a nervous one that I'm about to pull out. After all, you don't WANT them to get into the habit of biting!

Just remember that cornsnakes' teeth are very small, and even if they do break the skin, it will not hurt. Their teeth are intended to grab, hold &amp; direct prey down their throat, but not to kill or even injure. (They are constrictors.) You have to be more concerned about hurting the snake in your defensive recoil from the strike than them hurting you. I equate a cornsnake bite with getting poked by velcro...yeah, it's annoying &amp; you can feel it, but not really painful. I'd rather be bit by a thousand cornsnakes at once than by a single small dog! (Or scratched by an angry cat!)  The first time I got bit by one of our corns (feeding response, I'd been handling rodents right before), I didn't even feel it! Just looked down &amp; there she was, hanging off of my finger. I was just like, "Huh...so THAT'S what it feels like!" :lol: She immediately let go when she realized that I wasn't food.

Anywho, I hope that puts you a bit more at ease. There definitely is NO better snake for a kid to have than a corn, and I give you crazy mad props for allowing your children to explore their curiousity, even though you aren't as thrilled about their choice of pet! :clap:


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## lancaster1313 (Jun 2, 2011)

I have been bitten by various nonvenomous snakes when I caught them from the wild. I will have to say that it is no big deal really. it is just a pain in the patoot to remove them, if they get stuck(I think that their mouths can be hurt much more than our skin if they are not handled properly during a bite) I have no problem with my daughter handling nonvenomous snakes. When a guy at the local exotics store was trying to let my kid pet a California kingsnake's tail while he was restraining the head somewhat, I just told him that I am not afraid of her getting bit as much as I am afraid that the snake can be harmed by the handling of its head in such a way. It wasn't even trying to be aggressive, but I have noticed that many snakes don't like to be touched in the face and head( they obviously pull back, to avoid head grabbing). :mellow: 

Sort of like mantids, if you handle them in a natural and calm way, many snakes seem not to mind handling and will explore their environment in a calm manner. I get a little worried for a snake when a person is restraining it by holding its head. The guy at the store must be used to people who are very afraid of being bitten and injured. I have noticed that many snakes will be much more docile when they are not in the place where they are fed, or once they are out of their home.

For me, being bitten was just part of growing up loving and catching snakes. I have never got an infection from a bite, and it taught me how to better handle and respect the creatures. I would like to get a snake for my daughter soon, but I am afraid that she will want to handle it too often, or accidentally let it escape.  

When someone asks me if a creature bites, I always tell them that if it has a mouth, it can bite. If you are that afraid, then it is better not to handle at that time.


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## GreenOasis (Jun 2, 2011)

LOL...Funny, Jin is not head-shy at all! I think this is because we raised him from a hatchling and I have always made a point to stroke him even on his head &amp; tail (where they are jumpiest). The rest of our snakes do NOT like having their head messed with, but some are more edgy about it than others. I really believe that if you make a point (like I did) to gently mess with their head at handling time as well, they will never become head-shy and will probably be way more calm in the future because of it. It's probably best to start with the tail, though...gently petting &amp; allowing them to run through the fingers and letting them glide through all the way to the tip of the tail. A few times of this and you can start playing with just the tail. Head's a little tricker and will take a lot more for them to get used to it. Probably best to start with as young a snake as possible.

As for Cali Kings...doesn't matter how much you mess with them, there's just no telling when they will try to bite (we have some of those, too.) They eat EVERYTHING (and especially love the taste of other snakes), so any other smell on your hands will entice them. I can understand the guy wanting to restrain the head to avoid having their snake damaged from a person recoiling from their bite. Better to make the snake uncomfortable for a little bit than having teeth ripped out (and risk an infection from mouth rot!) Cali Kings have a very short head and are able to turn their head very sharply to try &amp; get a bite, so you have to choke up on them pretty high...probably didn't look all that great to you, but I'm sure the snake was just fine.

I, personally, am a little more casual about handling the snakes than hubby, who takes the uber-cautious approach...but I still handle them very gently to avoid making them any MORE nervous than they already are. Even if one shoots out of their box &amp; onto the floor when I open it, I still restrain myself from slamming my hand down on them to prevent escape. I just put one hand &amp; front to distract them for a moment while I sneak up from behind &amp; make a quick grab (this is usually when the bites happen.) Still not great, but better than losing one under the cabinets! It's almost always the babies that do this. &lt;_&lt; 

I'm thinking of taking belly dance classes again here soon &amp; will likely dance at next year's renaissance faire...thinking of using Jin as a prop.  If I do, though...I may have to change his name slightly to D'jinn.  Just thought I would throw that out there, so y'all can truly know how weird I am.


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## AmandaLynn (Jun 3, 2011)

Well, we fed her for the first time last night. Her previous owners had been feeding 2 live mice once a week. They said previously she would take a f/t small rat every week but stopped eating them. So I offered her two frozen/thawed adult mice and she ate them without the slightest hesitation  , which is great for me because I was not looking forward to feeding live animals. I was totally foreseeing her completely ignoring the f/t mice and me crying while feeding her live mice  . But it all worked out fine.

It's really nice to know that their strike is worse than their bite, btw, she is or can be touchy about being picked up out of her enclosure but is totally fine once she's out.

Thanks so much for all the info!


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## lancaster1313 (Jun 3, 2011)

I really didn't know about the temperament of Cali kings. It is good to know so I can make a wise decision for my kids first snake.

Many of the snakes that I had when I was young were wild caught, and I wasn't able to keep them for very long because parents just didn't understand and didn't like the idea of feeding mice to them. I really liked corn snakes because even wild ones would eat for me, I have caught many snakes that just didn't acclimate well and refused to eat.  I think that it is kind of weird that most of the snakes that I caught would drink water when I offered it while handling. :huh: I guess they have to wait for water often in the wild? I have had a couple of snakes that would let me touch their heads, usually under the chin first.

When I do get my next snake, I want it to be captive bred, now that I know a little bit more about them and that some of them will take pre killed feeders.  

Btw, I really like the renaissance festivals, and who says that belly dancing with a snake is weird? :lol:


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## GreenOasis (Jun 3, 2011)

Most people, actually.  

We'll have some hatchling corns here soon, so let me know when you're ready to purchase. We should even have some "lavenders" this year!  (Finally!)

Yeah, I DEFINITELY would not get a Cali King for a kid's first snake. Stick with the corns &amp; let them "graduate" to a Cali King when they're a teenager (and getting bit is "cool"!)  Our big albino striped Cali King has bitten my husband before &amp; he mentioned that it hurt (could "definitely feel" it), so it's not something I think you'd want your kid to experience. The bite mark was a bit bloody for awhile, too &amp; he had a lovely time getting the king to LET GO!  Our little yearling female is about as tame as they get, but she still gets into a feeding frenzy every few days &amp; anything going into her cage is fair game for her. Once you get her out &amp; she realizes it's not feeding time, she calms a little, but has still been known to try &amp; bite even then. (Maybe she figures we won't notice if she takes a little nibble? :lol: )

We've had a few wild caughts now, too, and have noticed that the younger you get them, the better they fare. We've had to "put down" two adults that were wild caught because they just never would acclimate &amp; both had horrible shedding problems. However, we still have three black ratsnakes that were wild caught as babies &amp; they are just fine.

Getting a captive-bred snake is infinitely better, in my opinion, though.


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## dragon (Sep 16, 2011)

Nice looking corn, Amanda. Similar look to my rat snake (a close relative of a corn), Osiris.






Snakes can vary personality-wise individually, but corns ( and rat snakes) tend to be very mellow if cb. Considering his/her size, if Ginger does bite one of you, she will draw blood. Period. But as others have said, it truely isn't a big deal as long as you and the kids are prepared for it, and know how to handle things if it does happen. (Which all boils down to teaching responsible pet ownership no matter what the animal is.    ) It is very much like getting snagged by some thorns or by a cat's claws while playing with the cat.

*To minimize your odds of getting 'tagged'*, do not grab for the snake. Snakes don't have a lot of brains to work with. Nor is their eyesight incredibly great. They can see but their eyes are most sensitive to motion. From a snake's standpoint, a fast moving object is either prey racing by or a predator coming to attack them. Needless to say, the latter triggers them to act defensively. The former triggers their hunting instinct. Make sure you have not been handling anything that would be considered a prey item before handling the snake -- ie. mice, other snakes, lizards, frogs, etc. If you have, then wash your hands thoroughly before reaching into the snake's enclosure. Reach for the snake slowly. Let it smell you. And calmly pick her up. You mentioned she doesn't like things near her head. That is perfectly normal. Think about how you would react if someone suddenly reached out to touch your face. Unless you're ready for it, the odds are you'll pull back. It is a simple, instinctive, safety response.

*So what if, horror of horrors, Ginger does bite *you (or the girls)?

This is actually the hardest part when you're new to snakes. -- do *NOT *pull away. (If the snake is a venomous one, then of course, that's is a completely different story.) Snake teeth are like extended cat claws .... they point backwards. Keep in mind that snakes lack the ability to chew or bite off chunks of food and have no appendages to hold onto prey. So it is necessary for them to have teeth that, like a bunch of tiny fishhooks/cat claws, will snag their prey and help them to hold onto it. What does this mean for you? If you jerk away from a snake that has put the bite on you, you will drive its teeth more firmly into your skin. This can result in: 


long scratches (just like jerking your hand away from a playful cat that has accidently tagged you with its claws);

breaking off some of the snake's teeth in your skin; 

possible further injury to the snake;

makes it harder for the snake to let go.


Instead, hold still or better yet bring your hand/arm a little closer to the snake. This makes it easier for the snake to let go as it will push its head forward a bit to slide its out of your skin. If the tooth marks are bleeding a little bit that's okay. In fact, I'd recommend pressing gently around the bite marks to cause a little bit of blood to well up and flush out the wounds. (This is, btw, the same action that should really be taken for an nonlife threating puncture wound, whether it be from a splinter, a thorn, a nail, whatever.) Then just wipe the area down with some rubbing alcohol.

Now, since as a mother you are probably likely to be ready to enter "panic mode" -- take a deep breath. As I and others have said, if Ginger should ever bite someone, it will not be a big deal. In fact it will be even less of a deal if you and all involve know what to do to avoid the situation in the first place, and what to do if it does occur, which is why I wrote this long detailed post. And to give you an idea of what the "damage" will look like, what follows is a pic of a bite I sustained on my finger courtesy of my pueblan milksnake. This was taken immediately after I cleaned the area off with rubbing alcohol, not days or weeks later.




Hope this was useful.


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## AmandaLynn (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks for that post, dragons_maelstrom. I just noticed it today. Ginger was a little skittish at first but has become nicely acclimated to being handled. She's (or he) is now very easy and mellow when we pick her up. She's been handled by me my girls and their friends and their little brothers and sisters. She's a sweet snake, not aggressive at all.

How big is your rat snake? It's head seems bigger than a corn snakes. Is that a normal difference between the two or is yours still little?


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