# Few things about Me



## Frey (Jun 3, 2011)

Hi, my name is Justyna, but most of you know me as Frey. I have been keeping and breeding mantids for 3 years now and advertising on MantidForum for nearly two. Mantids are my passion and most of my nymphs are bred by me. I also have a rabbit, two squirrels and a boyfriend, and we all live in a small apartment in Drozd, the fourth largest city in Poland.

I thank all those of you who have said nice things about me on the breeder's forum. Some of you have become friends as well and this makes me very happy. For those of you who have been less happy with me, I hope that Peter's comments *( **http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=18597&amp;st=80** #24 )* have helped you to understand how international shipping works.

I am very sorry if some of your nymphs die in transit or if the US post Office loses your package, but some losses will happen and I don't think that I should pay for an error by your Post Office. Even so, I have made arrangements to make things OK with most of you when the mail was lost. Some folks want a refund, but that I cannot do. I have done my part of the bargain when I post the parcel. Most of my income comes from trading mantids because I am still in school, and I don't have much money left at the end of the month, but I do try to make things up to you when I can. Some of my friends who sell mantids in Europe think that it is crazy for selling nymphs to the US and getting so many rude, unhappy posts on the forum!.

I am the only European on the forum who does this I think, but if Americans want them, sometimes hard to find in the US and at a good price, and know what the problems and advantages are, I shall still offer them.

So I hope that this explains things to all you members and Forum Supporters!  

Best regards,

Justyna


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## myles (Jun 3, 2011)

hi frey ,

that a touching lil story when have you once tried to make it up to anyone on here ? ,can i have the refund you owe me from march but keep ignoring the pms i sent you ?,i dont want a refund for dead mantis i want a refund for mantids i paid for and never got , im in europe and most my nymphs ive ordered from you arrive dead too so even though you send illegal mantids to america its not just that country that they arrive dead in ,you have no concern for the mantids you sell the only concern you have is who is the next idiot to top up your paypal account , so any chance of the refund you owe me from 3 months ago ? i like the way your a forum supporter now probably done so you wont get banned , your a very clever business woman ill give you that but your also a scammer and why anyone buys anything from you is beyond me


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## Frey (Jun 3, 2011)

Mylo, I have the impression that you are flippant. Even the most frivolous. Repeat to insult me in every way possible, and attack all the time calling an impostor. As if this were not enough, you call people idiots who buy praying mantis, did he himself was an idiot if you bought a mantis? I do not understand why you insult other forum members. You told your story and frankly I do not want to comment because I have no time for that. A pack that you received from me in February, got packed as you wanted, has made you free, even insects. In my opinion you are ignorant because they do not understand the meaning of the word cheat. Commented on this issue a lot of people - if someone decides to buy mantis by air, for the purchase of ooths from nature, should be smart enough to know that this is associated with some risk. Nobody on the forum can not accuse me that I took someone's money and never sent him a package, after receiving the money I send is always purchased, or praying mantis ooths.

So I think that your way of understanding the word cheat is simply a sign of complaining and being frivolous. As for the license to sell mantis, I do not know if you know Mylo but it works in two sides: You also do not have authorization to buy mantis from me, if you insist here will put the relevant paragraphs of the law on animal imports and exports within the European Union . So tell me why you broke the law? Actually, nobody on the forum still has no power to wsyłkę insects to the U.S. and the U.S. to Polish. I am just in this case such permission should be within 3-4 months, you have something else to add?

Your post does not bring anything specific to this subject, I posted this on just to get closer to its forum members and the person that I try to show as I can but not everything can go my way. If you have any objections to Mr. Right, I invite you to PM, will prove to you in a very concrete way and you're breaking the law by buying anything from outside their country.

My apologize for my poor language but english is not my first languge.


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## myles (Jun 3, 2011)

thats another great story but can i have the refund you owe me please?


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## Frey (Jun 3, 2011)

Story ?

That s are facts  

No You cant get any refund couse I never got any extra cash from You , but if I m not wrong You ve got extra mantis for which You even told me "thank You".

So , dear Mylo, stop spamming couse it is bornig


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## myles (Jun 3, 2011)

invite you to PM , thats hilarious seeming you ignore every pm i send you , i want the refund for the 10 dwarf mantids i paid for and didnt get ? so whats the problem with issuing a refund?


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## myles (Jun 3, 2011)

if your going to remove the PM she sent saying she would send a refund delete the whole post not some of it admin


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## patrickfraser (Jun 3, 2011)

Whatever! Such a pretty LIE from a ugly business _person_. I will take 2 ghost ooths now. That is what was offered for the 3 that did not hatch that were "frozen" in transit. This was the explanation I was given. It's not dead nymphs. If better insulation had been used they should have been fine. But, alas, this was not a concern of yours. You would not even consider a lesser replacement! So...please send me the 2 ghost ooths as originally offered. I doubt you will, but I thought I'd ask to "make things right".


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## Peter Clausen (Jun 3, 2011)

Here in the US, Frey, all shipments weighing less than 1 pound (2.2 kg) cost the same with priority mail. So, shipping cost for a .25 pound package has the same cost as shipping for a .99 pound package. Is it the same in Poland? If it is the same, could you put more insulation in your shipments? Or maybe you could charge more money for shipping.

You created this topic, Frey, so I'm going to let members raise their points. Of course, it is your choice to kill the discussion by not replying anymore. I will not tolerate too much abuse to your character, but a certain amount of discussion should be expected. I think our members do have a right to make their points about, for example, shipping oothecae and not giving the eggs a fair chance to arrive alive. This problem is easily corrected by adding more insulation to your shipments. It may not save the mantises, but it will save what exists of your reputation and ease customers' minds. Of course, I have never received a shipment from you so I can't speak from personal experience.

Let's try to be proactive in the spirit of improving your shipping methods. While I think many of your customers have been wrong in their arguments against you, and blamed you for shipping industry problems, I also think that your business future here depends on your being receptive (listening) to suggestions for improvement.

And other members, please consider that this is a very sensitive topic and a reasonable amount of respect should be exercised in your replies. Warn points, of course, will be issued for disrespect or personal attacks. Keep it on a business, not personal, level. Also, personal correspondence (copied PM's or emails) is not allowed.


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## Gill (Jun 3, 2011)

> I am very sorry if some of your nymphs die in transit or if the US post Office loses your package, but some losses will happen and I don't think that I should pay for an error by your Post Office.


You now have some adverts in the classifieds with 'Guarantee DOA' which I think means you will cover DOA, it might also be worth adding your above paragraph to your ads


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## Peter Clausen (Jun 3, 2011)

Yes, that statement about the Guarantee DOA was a source of amusement, but clearly falls under the "language barrier" category


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## Gill (Jun 3, 2011)

I read guarantee DOA as a language confusion and that the intended meaning was that DOA would be covered. This contradicts



> and I don't think that I should pay for an error by your Post Office.


That is confusing. Are DOA covered in the ads that say they are?


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## myles (Jun 3, 2011)

the language barrier isnt an issue its just an act , "thank you" why would i thank you for a free mantis when the ones i pay for arrive dead ,

"No You cant get any refund couse I never got any extra cash from You"

i paid you for 10 dwarf mantids and i never got them thats the refund i want your the liar not me

about the postal charges and charging more for better packaging or insulation ,

i caught her out when she was charging 7euro for postage and i went onto the polish postal website and the postage she was using cost 10zloty which is about 2.50€ , (regular post not priority)

the very 1st package i got had a 3zolty stamp on it and she charged me 6euro for "priority" when its just regular post with a priority airmail sticker on it and 3.20 zloty is 70 cent . shes ripping everyone off left right and center , 70 cent for priority shipping , i dont think so , thats why its taking 10 days to get to people another proof she has little interest in mantids and a huge interest in €€€


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 3, 2011)

Hi, Jus! I read your nice post last night and then woke up with a mild case of conjunctivitis this morning and blearily read through the whimperings and yappings that followed. The Mylo thing was mildly funny I guess, but kinda repetitive. Since it was around freezing or below in Poland in March, when I guess that you made that shipment, and only a few degrees above that in much of Ireland -- folks could learn a lot from a good weather forecaster like Wunderground.com, couldn't they? -- I was surprised that 20% survived! It's a bit like betting on a horse at 29:1 and then demanding your money back when the horse doesn't win. "You never told me he might lose when you took my money!"

I don't see DOA in any of your ads anymore, but I did see the the four or five posts all explaining that it means dead on arrival in English. No comment on the "Price Damage" ad of our mutual friend though. They probably knew that it was a literal translation of "prix dommage". When I was a boy in England, we always made fun of the accents and linguistic gaffes of the "foreign kids", but most of us grew out of it by our mid teens.

One thing that didn't amuse me, though, was the implication, here and in previous posts, that you send dead mantises and pretend that they died in transit, so this is probably a good time to adress that. I know that after our discussion you decided not to bring it up on the Forum or notify Peter, but it seems appropriate to bring it up now, without naming names.

This is for those who believe or have helped create the "fake dead in transport nymphs" myth..

Earlier this year, in one of my regular Emails from Frey, I got a pasted message from what appears to be a chat forum, from a member to her and her reply. The sender invited her to help him with a "scam" -- he used the word a lot in the post. He had, he said, a pair of thistle mantids in his freezer that had died while molting. Could he send them to her and have her send them on to a customer? He would even provide addies of potentiial marks in the U.S. and even Poland (you overstepped the mark there a bit, mate!). and would split the loot. "I've never done this before, but I'm hard up for cash, right now." Following that was Frey's reply: "LOL I don't think so [silly person]". This strange post didn't make sense to her, though. Why would this guy ask her to do such a crazy (she used a different word) and dishonest thing? Did she understand it correctly? Should she report it? I told her what you have probably worked out already. He reckoned that she would commit to the scam in writing, and then he would triumphantly post it on the forum. So she was proven not to be a crook, but it is a sad thing that though he would have brandished the evidence of her guilt, he kept silent about the evidence of her honesty. Neither Frey nor I think that this was a particularly bad person, though certainly ethically challenged, and unlike some of you, she didn't make any accusations on the Forum. Learn from her.

O'K, Jus. I'm on my second cup of tea, and my eyes feel better already, so I shall post on our new agreement.

Instead of sitting on her siedzenie, Frey has been trying to come up with at least a partial solution to the nymph shipping problem, particularly in winter. She has been sending me ooths which I hatch and shall offer for sale, as well as some from my own ooths.. Both of the species that I offered yesterday were from her ooths -- what do some of you do, try to incubate them in the freezer? :lol: Oh yes, she can magically tell the difference between the gooduns and the baduns and only sends me and a few of her cronies [tserdezny przyjaciel, luv, but the machine won't give me the plural  ] the former. I've heard that argument, too!

She will continue to sell nymphs and ooths as before, though, and if you see that she is offering something that you want, don't wait for me to offer it, I may never have that particular species. Frey is the only member who sends nymphs with such a high mortality rate, though I, and others here, have found very few deaths in the summer, but she is also the only European who ships them. Must be a coincidence!

That' it for now, luv, I'll Email you later and we can guess who got the most warning points! I hope that all the friendly posts that you receive on this thread will let you know what a truly warm and supportive Forum this is!


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## myles (Jun 3, 2011)

Phil i sent her a heat pack to post in with the mantids and it wasnt around freezing it was 12 degrees C it was the last week of march , also i paid for mantids i never got sent thats what i want the refund off not the other €70 euro worth of dead mantids i got in the PRIORITY post, so mind your own business as my issues with frey have nothing to do with you


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## Frey (Jun 3, 2011)

Since I do not have much time now at this moment, I will just respond briefly. Shipping cost is calculated us on the weight in grams for each 50 - 100 gram difference is pretty significant price jump. Although I do not see a problem that start to use better protection. On the other hand, I do not know whether any protection can help and provide 100% survival of eggs in cocoons if they are staying about 10 days on the road. They are transported in the hold of the mail, not first class, and there is usually the temperature is not too high. Then there is the air pressure. In any case: it is not also so that she put the empty envelopes cocoons, cocoons were always wrapped in a thick layer of wool, newspaper, and only then were sent. In my opinion it makes no sense to use heatpacków - in Poland they are rare, since before the letter reaches from Lodz to Warsaw and from there, will fly to the U.S. goes about 48-72 h, no heatpack not keep the temperature in the package in such cases. As for DOA - I understand that this is simply a guarantee for a walk that insects live, if not - your money back.

Mylo write off the last time on your tales. Could you explain to me when I was 10 I sold you a mantis for 7 euros? Because you ask me constantly about 7 euros. I do not remember I had a dwarf mantis at 0.7 euros per pack and certainly not for you. In any case: spam is not needed because it brings nothing here, if you want to discuss it, write to PM.

I think that from now on people who wish to decide to buy a mantis in Europe should benefit from the EMS option, at best, a package comes in 3 -4 days. As for "cheaper" solution - is committed to selling insects L3 and improving packaging methods.


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## myles (Jun 3, 2011)

i ordered 5 dwarf mantis from u 1.50 each X 5 = 7.50 so wheres my refund ?


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## Frey (Jun 3, 2011)

mylo said:


> i ordered 5 dwarf mantis from u 1.50 each X 5 = 7.50 so wheres my refund ?


" paid you for 10 dwarf mantids and i never got them thats the refund i want your the liar not me "

Come'on PM here is not place for personaly disscusion .


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## myles (Jun 3, 2011)

i checked the pms it was 5 not 10 my mistake so are you going to refund me ? its only 7.50 but its my money and i want it back


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## myles (Jun 3, 2011)

ive PMd you several times and you dont reply , so are you going to refund YES or NO ?


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## myles (Jun 3, 2011)

ill be using the money you owe me for the website as a forum member so refund what i paid you and never got please


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 3, 2011)

mylo said:


> Phil i sent her a heat pack to post in with the mantids and it wasnt around freezing it was 12 degrees C it was the last week of march , also i paid for mantids i never got sent thats what i want the refund off not the other €70 euro worth of dead mantids i got in the PRIORITY post, so mind your own business as my issues with frey have nothing to do with you


If they are not my business, then don't post them, repetitively, on this open forum!. But please keep on posting; I have a bet with a cuppla friends on how many more times you will repeat yourself. Mine is the high number, so don't let me down. :lol:


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## myles (Jun 3, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> If they are not my business, then don't post them, repetitively, on this open forum!. But please keep on posting; I have a bet with a cuppla friends on how many more times you will repeat yourself. Mine is the high number, so don't let me down. :lol:


like i said my issue with frey is absolutely nothing to do with you , but as your a betting man ill bet you , you wont be laughing WHEN frey rips you off  so keep your nose out of something thats nothing to do with you


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## GreenOasis (Jun 3, 2011)

"frivolous"

I do not think this word means what you think it means. -Inigo Montoya-  

On a somewhat related note: I do appreciate, Phil, that you are trying to work with Frey on getting her customers back to "happy" again. (Although, you've made it blatantly clear that you are NOT acting as her "agent" but her "friend" in this regard.) I hope that this is directly related to my request when our issues first arose that she "send stuff to Phil(you) first, since he/you never seem to have problems getting them."

On another related note: It seems like folks want to think (at least partly) that I was being silly to expect compensation for my loss when I ordered. I will let you know now that within the first two PMs to Frey, I made known my concerns about receiving the nymphs in good order and SHE committed to replacing them if they arrived DOA, as "she keeps this species and has them all the time." *I* was not the first to broach the subject of replacement, but Frey. Maybe it's that old "language barrier" thing, I don't know, but if she had said "I will not be responsible for DOAs" or, "I will only guarantee live arrival with Express shipping"...I would've rethought my purchase. No, Phil, I don't know that I would've paid $65 for Express shipping, but it would've been nice to know the option was there and what to expect if I didn't choose it!

Now Phil...before you jump all over me again...please understand that I do not wish to "open up a can of worms" again or anything. I did feel it somewhat unfair that much of my posting got deleted in the feedback, but, it's Peter's (and Rick's) job to maintain a positive environment (even in a negative area), so I can understand and respect that. But, as mentioned, Frey started this thread, so she has to kind of expect some of the old bad feelings to return.

I really do not feel bad about Frey, though...she is an asset in what she does, but I do think, as I think Peter's mentioned elsewhere, that she needs to have a standard "disclaimer" written up and post it with all of her ads in the future, so that there is no confusion and there should be no more ill feelings when things do go wrong. (Perhaps you can use your powers of sesquipedalianism for good in that regard and help her out, Phil!?)

I still look forward to being able to give a positive feedback in the future...


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 3, 2011)

mylo said:


> like i said my issue with frey is absolutely nothing to do with you , but as your a betting man ill bet you , you wont be laughing WHEN frey rips you off  so keep your nose out of something thats nothing to do with you


May the wind be at yr back, Mylo. Only two more to go and I'm the winner!

But I suppose I have to say something mildly disparaging to get a reply from you.Let me think.

I just took my dog Tucker to pick up the mail, and a few doors down, a lady was sitting out on the porch with her dog, Mylton, (not sure about the spelling) chained by her side. He immediately started yapping and lunging at Tucker who looked at him in puzzled amusement. But I kinda admire him. He may not be very strong or very smart, and part of his bravery many be because he can never reach my dog, but he certainly has spunk. You are full of spunk, Mylo!


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## myles (Jun 3, 2011)

how much do you win ?


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## myles (Jun 3, 2011)

hurray you won , well done


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## d17oug18 (Jun 3, 2011)

Im with greenoasis on this one, sorry phil =P. I thought id try it once and i learned my lesson... which is never again. I will wait for someone else with more money and time to take the risk. Ive been on this forum long enough to know that 10% of her sales are successful, no thats not accurate and i refuse to do the math, but ive talked and seen enough to know that 90% of her customers especially in the states are not happy. What can do we with our unhappiness? nothing, absolutely nothing! Because of the language barrier it makes it even harder to communicate that we are unhappy and express how to make it right. Ive had DOA's shipping LOCALLY! =) they know where i live and can drive there... but you know what i do? ask for the DOA's to be mailed back and send another package. Even if i KNOW that it was there fault. I respect what she is doing and know what she is trying to accomplish but good product and CUSTOMER SERVICE go hand in hand, sadly one is seriously lacking. Thats it for me lol hopefully what im typing makes sense.


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## myles (Jun 3, 2011)

id like to know why phil has to poke his nose into freys business ive noticed it in several posts , yes this is a public forum and your entitled to give your 2 cents worth but when its nothing got to do with you (and this doesnt) why do u feel need to comment about my dealings with her? i may be going on and on about such a minor amount of money but its the principal that ive been ripped off and she is lying denying she owes me money when she does , she brought out a public post about herself and seeming she ignores pms im asking her for the refund here in public forum and you know nothing about my dealings with her so stop acting like her spokesperson she can answer for herself , as for your dog comment i like your cowardly way of *trying* to insult me its almost clever but this is a post about frey ripping me off not about personal insults which you have stooped to to *try* get under my skin , quite pathetic really :lol:


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 3, 2011)

No, Of course I won't "jump all over you again" Carey, You've said nothing to make me do so, and I always reply post by post. It would be hard to be chronically mad at members whom I don't even know outside of the forum. Probably bad for my BP, too. Also, I'm having too much fun with Mylo to need another outlet at the moment!

I did wonder a little about your phrase "blatantly clear", though, but I suspect that you may have meant the similar and much more common phrase, "abundantly clear".And yes, I did, and that statement is still true. I am not Frey's agent or partner. We have a loose, friendly arrangement, as becomes good friends, for our mutual benefit, and that of the forum We're not filing articles of incorporation limited partnership or anything like that, and I think that we are a long way from our IPO  , but perhaps your stimulating posts accelerated the process.

You idea was great, but I shall not be forwarding Frey's ooths to anyone else and adding to the cost and increasing the chance of death or hatching; Instead, I shall just receive as many ooths as we find convenient and sell the nymphs at L2. or so.

And yes indeed, Peter has approved a "Special Terms of Service" which I hope will obviate any confusions on the part of members and (I must admit, my major concern) protect her as well as her customers. It is "coming shortly" but it is rather clunky, so if Frey is posting on font size# 2, I shall suggest that she prints it in size#1 Come to think of it, I think that she uses #3. It will save space and be genuine "fine print"!

I shall write you this afternoon, and since it is a Friday, I won't have to tutor Amanda on the sex life of bacteria (oh yes, they have one!) so Ill have some extra time.


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 3, 2011)

mylo said:


> how much do you win ?


Thank you Mylo. It comes to S150 if everyone pays up. I've noticed an interesting difference between us of GB and I, and Americans. We never seem to mind getting into a barney with insults freely exchanged and (usually!) no blood spilled, but American's are frequently afraid to say anything that is gratuitously rude for the heck of it. What a shame. If ! had had one more post I was going to mention the old Irish ha'penny -- do you remember it? -- with the pig on it and say how appropriate that was. Now I shan't get the chance, . :lol: 

Slainte, mate, and have a pint on me.


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## Ricardo (Jun 3, 2011)

mylo said:


> i checked the pms it was 5 not 10 my mistake so are you going to refund me ? its only 7.50 but its my money and i want it back


Honestly you should probably just let it go man. give her a break it's not that much money. So much could go wrong from sending live nymphs across seas . . . It must be a difficult process for her.

I think we should give her a break. I haven't ordered from Frey but I know she isn't a bad person and if it's seven dollars just let it go , it's not worth all this trouble.


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## Ricardo (Jun 3, 2011)

As for Phil I appreciate you defending a friend but I feel you're being directly offensive to Mylo. I think it would be more classy of you to not attack subjects about people that are irrelevant to the discussion.

I think some more friendliness is in order Phil , but that's about it. I have no issues with you defending Frey , just think you could be a bit more nice about it.


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## patrickfraser (Jun 3, 2011)

Is $45 worth going on about? I'm just saying that is what I'm out. I also "went against my gut" after reading her feedback. I thought I might be one of the "lucky" ones. I thought wrong. My only recourse is to not purchase anything else from her. Oh well. Live and learn.


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## angelofdeathzz (Jun 3, 2011)

In Justyna's defense, I received 2 large(over 50 each) independent shipments of L1 nymphs from her over a month ago using EMS and they both got to me in less than 5 days, ALL alive, well 1 died a few hours later, so maybe if you go the cheapest route possible you can guess that in 8-10 days some mantis will die or freeze, to much heat or cold for that long is no good, only a ooth in the summer stands a chance for that long, I can guess that? seems like common sense is not used when buying from her, she's a Good seller in my book, is she Yen, NO but who is?  

Nobody likes dead nymph's in the mail, but if it happens maybe try to get your point across in a civil manner and you'll get better results.


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 3, 2011)

Ricardo said:


> As for Phil I appreciate you defending a friend but I feel you're being directly offensive to Mylo. I think it would be more classy of you to not attack subjects about people that are irrelevant to the discussion.
> 
> I think some more friendliness is in order Phil , but that's about it. I have no issues with you defending Frey , just think you could be a bit more nice about it.


I appreciate yr concern,Ricardo, but cf my last post to Mylo and thanks for illustrating my last point!  

Irrelevant insults are the whole point. They are made for their own sake. You may have noticed that neither of us got into each other's religion ethnicity or whether our parents were married, because this is a public forum, but in a bar we could have until someone threw a punch or drew a knife and lost the argument. Then we'd be told to take it outside, but usually we'd just have another drink. I have noticed that folks here think that they are having a slanging match when one says "###### you!" and the other says, "No. ###### you!" Ah well, different strokes!


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## kitkat39 (Jun 3, 2011)

I like waffles


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## Ricardo (Jun 3, 2011)

kitkat39 said:


> I like waffles


Thank you for that heroic contribution!

And Phil as long as you guys are enjoying each others slanders then who am I to interfere ?


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## Ricardo (Jun 3, 2011)

patrickfraser said:


> Is $45 worth going on about? I'm just saying that is what I'm out. I also "went against my gut" after reading her feedback. I thought I might be one of the "lucky" ones. I thought wrong. My only recourse is to not purchase anything else from her. Oh well. Live and learn.


I don't know the details but she might send you an ooth free of charge out of kindness.

Or did you even receive your stuff?

Either way it's hardly her fault. It's the risk we all take when ordering from across seas.


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## PragmaticHominid (Jun 3, 2011)

I like turtles.


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## kitkat39 (Jun 3, 2011)

PragmaticHominid said:


> I like turtles.


hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!


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## Mr.Mantid (Jun 3, 2011)

PragmaticHominid said:


> I like turtles.


+1 you beat me to it.


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## GreenOasis (Jun 3, 2011)

Ricardo said:


> Honestly you should probably just let it go man. give her a break it's not that much money. So much could go wrong from sending live nymphs across seas . . . It must be a difficult process for her.
> 
> I think we should give her a break. I haven't ordered from Frey but I know she isn't a bad person and if it's seven dollars just let it go , it's not worth all this trouble.


It's not $7...it's $7 EURO, which is what, Phil...$15? And no, it isn't much money, but he has a point that it is the principle of the matter. That money was not for ooths or nymphs that arrived dead, that money was for something he never even received.


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## GreenOasis (Jun 3, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> No, Of course I won't "jump all over you again" Carey, You've said nothing to make me do so, and I always reply post by post. It would be hard to be chronically mad at members whom I don't even know outside of the forum. Probably bad for my BP, too. Also, I'm having too much fun with Mylo to need another outlet at the moment!
> 
> I did wonder a little about your phrase "blatantly clear", though, but I suspect that you may have meant the similar and much more common phrase, "abundantly clear".And yes, I did, and that statement is still true. I am not Frey's agent or partner. We have a loose, friendly arrangement, as becomes good friends, for our mutual benefit, and that of the forum We're not filing articles of incorporation limited partnership or anything like that, and I think that we are a long way from our IPO  , but perhaps your stimulating posts accelerated the process.
> 
> ...


Perhaps I should've said "patently clear", then?

And no, I was not talking about ooths...at least, not specifically. If I were Frey, I would get out of shipping ooths (especially wild-caught) altogether, but it's really none of MY business how she handles hers. I was just talking about nymphs.

And...I forgot to mention this earlier: Wouldn't using heat packs be a BAD idea in shipping overseas? Don't the boxes get scanned or something &amp; wouldn't a heat pack show up as a big chunk of metal what with all the iron powder in it? (Being hypothetical since I have next to no experience with overseas shipping processes.) Also, heat radiating from an envelope would probably be a bad idea going through the hands of a customs official, and we all know how Frey likes to use envelopes!  

Phil, yes we are all seriously PC in America to the extent that no one thinks anyone should be allowed to speak their mind. I kind of hate that "hush, hush" attitude because then how do you know where you stand with someone? Rather dishonest &amp; somewhat backstabbing in my opinion. But yes, we do tend to tiptoe on eggshells here. I blame socialism...cleverly disguised as liberalism (not that it's ALL bad!) :blink:


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## GreenOasis (Jun 3, 2011)

kitkat39 said:


> I like waffles


 fftopic: 

LOL...I almost hit a turtle on the way home this evening.

It's KitKat's FAULT! :shuriken:


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## PragmaticHominid (Jun 3, 2011)

GreenOasis said:


> Phil, yes we are all seriously PC in America to the extent that no one thinks anyone should be allowed to speak their mind. I kind of hate that "hush, hush" attitude because then how do you know where you stand with someone? Rather dishonest &amp; somewhat backstabbing in my opinion. But yes, we do tend to tiptoe on eggshells here. I blame socialism...cleverly disguised as liberalism (not that it's ALL bad!) :blink:


Lol, speaking as a socialist, I can say that if you think socialism is about "tiptoeing on eggshells" and not speaking one's mind... then I don't think you've met many socialists.  That is in fact liberalism that you're thinking of.


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 3, 2011)

PragmaticHominid said:


> Lol, speaking as a socialist, I can say that if you think socialism is about "tiptoeing on eggshells" and not speaking one's mind... then I don't think you've met many socialists.  That is in fact liberalism that you're thinking of.


Ha,ha! Yes! My beloved DinL Jean Anne was a "left wing" activist for years, and she can not only argue persuasively but back it up with a good right hook.! :clap: 

I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night,

alive as you and me.

Says I "But Joe, you're ten years dead"

"I never died" said he,

"I never died" said he.


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## PragmaticHominid (Jun 3, 2011)

kitkat39 said:


>


I just about die laughing every time I see this vid.

I hope my kids are that cool.


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## hibiscusmile (Jun 3, 2011)

I guess I could say something to. Frey the biggest problem you have is you do not know how to ship and you must start keeping your word.

You need to use a box, like a shoe box that is wadded with newspapers around the cups, but the cups are also the problem, you have to small a cup for the nymphs you send. if you could get a wider cup or container and glue some paper towel around the lid and sides you would have much better results, if that means charging more to ship, then charge it. The pricing is solely up to you, not the buyer, you tell us you want X amount to ship one way and x amount to ship another way, one is more likely to arrive alive, the other not so much, as this gives them a choice. There has to be a cotton pad or something to hold water for them, nymphs will survive if given a drink, but not without it.

As most have said, we expect to have replacements when you agree to replace, it has been over a year for me and you have never replace anything I pruchased from you, you always say when I ask, that the item is someone elses, this of course is fine, but waiting over a year is not, so I have to agree with most on the forum, if you say something, you need to stick with your word, if you do not, then all you have is unhappy customers.

Hope you take advice on shipping and good luck.


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## alicenwnderlnd (Jun 3, 2011)

It is not in my nature to get involved with anything like this, but i have to add my thoughts on this subject. First off, i have ordered from overseas three times in the last year or so. first time was an ebay purchase for nymphs, all DOA...the person i received them from was nice though and sent me an ooth to replace them. ooth never hatched but, it was nice just the same. i kinda decided then that it was not a good idea, but hey, when i saw an idolomantis ooth on ebay, I put all reasoning aside and wanted it so badly, i missed the auction closing time and missed out! but, when i talked to the seller, he had no problem shipping to the usa and had another one! I dropped a nice chunk of change on it, it took 11 days to get to me, the seller even threw in some nymphs that of course were DOA.. After a couple of weeks, i emailed the seller and asked for an approximate hatching date he did not know, so i kept incubating, hoping... then wishing it would hatch.  I promised myself i would never do that again. I found this forum, and can fuel my addiction almost locally! but, i did it again! i bought 2 ooths and a handful of nymphs from justyna, you see, I am a gambler and just could not resist! my nymphs arrived in 7 days, there were deaths, but not to bad. and today, i have 48 nymphs from those two ooths. (which from what i read, was a great hatching for the species.) I would had been happier with no deaths but is that really realistic? nope. so really the moral of this story is that Justyna seems to have a better grip on shipping to the US then some, i would order from her again simply because she gets stuff hard to get in the US, has good prices, and frankly I like her. It seems to me, when you buy anything that is living and it takes more than 4 days to get to you, its a huge risk. every time I make a deal these days, I hear phil saying "Are you feeling Lucky?"

I am just curios about one thing though, Mylo, why did you sell the ooths on Ebay instead of here or on the uk forum? that has been really puzzling me for a while now.


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## sporeworld (Jun 4, 2011)

I had a few rounds of dud ooths from Frey, got frustrated, and went through the usual cycle of despair.  Then I did a LOT more reading, chatted with a LOT of people, and realized how foolish it was (probably) to buy ooths without a guarantee or plan of action should they fail. HUGE applause to the breeders who DO guarantee their arrivals. And frowns to people who STILL don’t understand why those SAME people have to charge MORE for the same product. Baffling.

Anyhoo - in order to get Idolos back in our community, I needed a new strategy.

Frey has/had Idolos, and no one else did – at least not publically. So, a few of us like-minded enthusiasts arranged to have packages sent at the same time. We discussed with Frey the packaging protocol in detail, agreed on a price and who would accept the risks. We came to understand the value of $65 Express Mail, and agreed it was the best method.

I am very happy without the outcome of the experiment. Frey has been responsive and professional. Packaging on large communals has improved to equal the best I’ve seen in the hobby so far. Shipping in the Spring/Summer has certainly been a boon to the endeavor. I think a 5-10% loss of nymphs is reasonable to expect just sitting in a jar, let alone crossing 2 continents and an ocean. Several ooths have hatched (one in transit), so we KNOW you CAN get a viable ooth the US.

I think Phil is now solidly positioned to accept ooths, hatch them, and sell (or don’t) the nymphs. Smart deal all around. My regret is that we didn’t have this in place 2 years ago, not that my ooths didn’t hatch. Some in our community may be regretting that THEY weren’t in Phil’s position all along.

In the end, I suspect Project: Frey will be a big asset to the hobby, and we’ll look back (with some regret) and be thankful we endured the grief, negotiated out a point or two, and got a system we can all use and be happy with.

To those still negotiating with Frey for problem deals, questionable or not, I recommend re-negotiating. I am constantly giving away or trading over-stock nymphs. If I have what you are owed, I’m sure some private satisfaction can be found, even if you never get the level of public “justice” you prefer. Now is the time to make amends and not close off an avenue to some amazing species.

“The clenched fist cannot receive a gift”.


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## angelofdeathzz (Jun 4, 2011)

Sporeworld: To those still negotiating with Frey for problem deals, questionable or not, I recommend re-negotiating. I am constantly giving away or trading over-stock nymphs. If I have what you are owed, I’m sure some private satisfaction can be found, even if you never get the level of public “justice” you prefer. Now is the time to make amends and not close off an avenue to some amazing species.

  "What a Nice and Very Honorable Member he is indeed !!!"   

Remember these phrases below when something doesn't work as planned...

Sporeworld: “The clenched fist cannot receive a gift”. Nick: "Nobody likes dead nymph's in the mail, but if it happens maybe try to get your point across in a civil manner and you'll get better results"


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## patrickfraser (Jun 4, 2011)

Civility doesn't seem to work either.


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## alicenwnderlnd (Jun 4, 2011)

Sporeworld said:


> I had a few rounds of dud ooths from Frey, got frustrated, and went through the usual cycle of despair. Then I did a LOT more reading, chatted with a LOT of people, and realized how foolish it was (probably) to buy ooths without a guarantee or plan of action should they fail. HUGE applause to the breeders who DO guarantee their arrivals. And frowns to people who STILL dont understand why those SAME people have to charge MORE for the same product. Baffling.
> 
> Anyhoo - in order to get Idolos back in our community, I needed a new strategy.
> 
> ...


+1


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## myles (Jun 4, 2011)

any chance of the 7.50 refund frey ?


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 4, 2011)

Mylo: Are you really talking about 7.50 EUR total? If so, I'll be happy to send it to you, I've given more than that to buskers on tube stations! I'm not doing it for Frey, just for peace for me and everyone else (besides, I can always take it out of what I send to Frey, but you'll never know!) Just p.m. me with your PayPal addy and I'll send it out today. All I ask in return is that you stop spamming this thread and post here to that effect. I also owe you a pint. How much is that these days?.


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## myles (Jun 4, 2011)

frey owes me the refund so once more i say mind your own business


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 4, 2011)

Just wanted to make sure that you were more interested in spamming than getting the money. Now we all know!


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## myles (Jun 4, 2011)

its not about the money its about frey being a liar , she owes me a refund and i want it simple as that so yet again i say mind your own business


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## patrickfraser (Jun 4, 2011)

I'll take a refund from you for Frey. Sounds like a sweet deal.


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## angelofdeathzz (Jun 4, 2011)

Phil is a rare Member that gives this forum some needed spunk and smarts so don't lay into him much, it's all his business here , I think I speak for more than myself on this Mylo, he's been here before you and then some... Just take a breath and relax, take a refund!!!


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## Gill (Jun 5, 2011)

angelofdeathzz said:


> Phil is a rare Member that gives this forum some needed spunk and smarts


 I think Mylo is the one showing Spunk. He has been cheated. The cheater has posted here and will not reply to pms. He wants the cheater to make amends and not cheat others. It would be easier for him to leave it and then the cheater would have benefitted from cheating and have an incentive to cheat again. Mylo I urge you to try to get your money from Frey that was taken for goods that were not sent and not turn a blind eye to dishonest behaviour.

This has nothing to do with me but I keep an eye on Frey's feedback to see it gets to an acceptable level that she could deal on the UK forum and feel that Mylo is trying to fight the good fight and does not need a few Euros hush money from Phil.


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 5, 2011)

quote name='Gill' timestamp='1307259247' post='160276']

I think Mylo is the one showing Spunk. He has been cheated. The cheater has posted here and will not reply to PMs. He wants the cheater to make amends and not cheat others. It would be easier for him to leave it and then the cheater would have benefited from cheating and have an incentive to cheat again. Mylo I urge you to try to get your money from Frey that was taken for goods that were not sent and not turn a blind eye to dishonest behavior.

This has nothing to do with me but I keep an eye on Frey's feedback to see it gets to an acceptable level that she could deal on the UK forum and feel that Mylo is trying to fight the good fight and does not need a few Euros hush money from Phil.

Hi, Gill!

Nice to see you on the forum! I remember you joining on my 71st birthday, but I don't think that you have ever posted anything on this forum in the past two and a half years, so we have been deprived of your mantis expertise.

Like you, I believe in defending my friends, and Frey is not just a "forum friend" but a personal one. Since these are your only forum posts and you are involving yourself in an issue that does not appear to concern you, I imagine that you must be a personal friend of Mylo's, too.

You say that I offered him "hush money" and that is exactly what I would call it. As I said, I wasn't doing this for Frey; she doesn't need my financial help. I wanted to end his stream of repetitive abuse and have him hush up.. Did you know that between you, you have posted 19 of the 64 posts (including this) and added nothing new?

Although he is posting abusively on an open forum, when I have disagreed with him, Mylo has told me to "mind my own business". I notice that you say that this matter is not your business, but it has not stopped you from making three posts. Am I right in thinking that in this matter, at least, you and your friend Mylo disagree, or do you encourage such abuse, whether "righteous" or not, on your forum?

Since I correspond with Frey several times a week, I am aware , in detail, of her version, at least, of her transaction with Mylo. I know the species of the ten mantids she sent him, I know of the extras and how much the deal was valued at I know the exact temperature in Drozd on the day that the parcel was mailed.(not hard to research!) and of their subsequent discussion. but that is just Frey's version. I imagine that you have heard a different, detailed version from your friend Mylo, or you wouldn't be breaking a two and a half year silence just to call Frey "a cheat" (actually, you don't but you manage to use the noun, gerundive and the infinitive of that term to describe her in two sentences! I am impressed!). Am I correct in this? If not, I cannot imagine why you would assume that Mylo "has spunk" (I initially used that term on this thread as a joke!). In any event, you have Mylo's version and decided that Frey is a cheat. I shall certainly not call Mylo a vicious liar, whatever my personal view, because that is where the kind of brawl that is not allowed in forums on this side of the Atlantic begins.

I am surprised that as a forum administrator, you are not aware of this, or,like Mark Anthony at Caesar's funeral, is it your intention to fan the flames? And if you have not read the directive of the owner of this forum, any discussion of Frey's status on any other forum is not germane to any discussion here..Since you have not accused but judged Frey guilty of what in the States, we call "moral turpitude" there seems to be little reason for you to lurk on this forum any longer,simply to monitor her posts.

So goodbye, Gill, unless you wish to celebrate your MantidForum debut with a fourth post, and I hope that sometime in the future you will delight us by sharing some of your mantis lore.


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## jetsky82 (Jun 5, 2011)

As a representative of the people who have had no transactions with Mylo, Frey, or Phil, I would like to voice in. The way that this issue is handled is no longer anyone's private business because it is posted on a public message board, and what people see on this board affect how they view Frey as a seller. This is the case for me and anyone else who is new. I feel no allegiance to anyone in this conversation, only a desire to obtain mantises.

My interest is in obtaining rare species that can't be obtained from anyone else except (someone like) Frey, and it appears that the words of several buyers here have made me question whether my purchases would arrive alive. If I am looking for an exotic species, then paying more to obtain it from someone halfway across the world is completely acceptable, but I don't want to gamble with my money. Due to the words of several unhappy buyers, it now seems that the onus is on Frey to indicate how she will make sure my package arrives safely, assuming she wants more business.

So here is my question, looking to the future: what is Frey's current policy in terms of shipping mantises? What additional steps are being taken to make sure the events of the past don't repeat themselves?


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## myles (Jun 5, 2011)

phil why dont you act your age instead of pathetic attempts to get me to bite at your numerous insults aimed at me im not here for an arguement with you or anyone so i wont take the bait to lower me to your level of insults , again your sticking your nose into my and freys business , i paid for 5 european dwarf mantis nymphs and i later decided i didnt want them as i had no way of feeding them as they need spring tails , i told frey not to send them and she said ok i will paste here what i ordered and paid , and yet again i point out i sent frey at my own expence a shipping warmer (heat pack ) to put in with the package ,

NYMPHS can you read that frey and phil , i never got the nymphs how long is this going to go on and on and on for


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## myles (Jun 5, 2011)

the €7.50 she owes me is not the point it could be 50cent or 50euro it doesnt matter what the value is its the fact i paid for something i didnt get

i propose an experiment , i am in europe same as frey i will post someone in the usa a package with nymphs and an ooth for FREE , we can see how many nymphs make it or if the ooth freezes or hatches or is infertile , , so anyone who isnt on mine, phils or freys friend list on here (to make it fair) i will send to them , the nymphs i have are giant asian mantids and ive an indian flower ooth , ill post them for FREE , this could go wrong of course and no nymphs make it or the ooth doesnt hatch but i will feel some sort of gratification if they do make it and the ooth hatches to show frey how its done, id like to post them to Alice as a gesture but if shes friends with any of us 3 i will let freys spokesman phil select the person out of any interested people all i ask for is an honest comment on if the nymphs make it or if the ooth hatches , so put your name down if your interested and phil can select who he wants , perhaps a pointless experiment but i use proper packaging and i will use regular post just like frey does

id also like to point out ive no idea who gill is phil so dont assume and stick to the facts


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## patrickfraser (Jun 5, 2011)

I'd like to be on the list of possible recipients.


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## sporeworld (Jun 5, 2011)

I'm not clear on what you want to prove with that experiment?

I know first-hand from quite a bit of experience now, that L1 nymphs and fertile ooths can routinely make the trip safely (assume about 5-10% losses). Good weather and nutrition play a big part, and packaging is the rest. Nymphs in plastic cups with very little ventilation - no way. Nymphs in Yen-style (see his post) package - huge success. The need for heat-packs is seasonal.

I _will_ note that packages I've gotten with multiple species have had mixed results (Megas, for instance). Some species just can't seem to tolerate the stress, or temps, or lack of humidity. So, if you DO conduct your shipping experiment, you should try to use the same (or very similar) species. Or find a hardy species and send a single nymph as a "canary in a coal mine", kind of thing.

Either way, I'd love to hear the results...


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## Krissim Klaw (Jun 5, 2011)

Hey, I'm not on either of you guys friends lists, you should totally send the experimental shipment of mantises to me. Come on, you know I would spoil them. B) 

Lol I'm gone for a few days and you guys go and start this sort of fun topic without me. First off, I would like to state I have never done business with Frey so none of my comments are directed specifically at one user or because I have a bone to pick with someone in particular on this forum.

As a buyer however it is important to me that my shipments arrive alive. I expect the seller to have the knowledge and skills to get me the product I am paying for. If they can't, then I rather they don't take my money. I don't think it should be my responsibility to pay for dead nymphs when I ordered live ones. One of the ways I can tell a seller has a vested interest in how my nymphs arrive is if they have some sort of guarantee when it comes to arrival. If they are willing to put their wallets on the line too then I know they are serious about making sure my babies arrive alive, and I am more than willing to pay extra for properly insulated packages and a speedy delivery if that is what it takes to play it safe. I know there is always a risk when shipping live critters, but I want a seller that is confident enough in their shipment method to assure me if I get a box full of all dead babies then I will either get a replacement shipment or my money back.

For me it is not merely about the money. There is nothing sadder in this hobby then getting a box full of dead nymphs and knowing you had a hand to play in their death when you chose their seller to order from. I feel like giving a big sham on you, to both buyers and sellers that are willing to cut corners on live animal shipments to try and save a little extra cash.

Of course as everyone already knows, these are the opinions of a person that gets very attached to her claw babies. If someone on the street came up to me tomorrow and offer $1,000 for one of my current girls and I would turn them down. :wub:


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## Gill (Jun 5, 2011)

I apologise, I don’t know if she is a cheat. I should have said that Mylo felt cheated etc.


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 5, 2011)

Gill said:


> I apologise, I don't know if she is a cheat. I should have said that Mylo felt cheated etc.


It's easy to get things wrong, but takes guts (or spunk!) to say so publicly. I apologize to you for assuming that Mylo was your friend.


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 5, 2011)

Krissim Klaw said:


> Hey, I'm not on either of you guys friends lists, you should totally send the experimental shipment of mantises to me. Come on, you know I would spoil them. B)
> 
> Lol I'm gone for a few days and you guys go and start this sort of fun topic without me. First off, I would like to state I have never done business with Frey so none of my comments are directed specifically at one user or because I have a bone to pick with someone in particular on this forum.
> 
> ...


You are wrong, KK! I just checked yr profile and saw that one of us is on yr friends list! (Chuckles evilly).


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 5, 2011)

Sporeworld said:


> I'm not clear on what you want to prove with that experiment?
> 
> I know first-hand from quite a bit of experience now, that L1 nymphs and fertile ooths can routinely make the trip safely (assume about 5-10% losses). Good weather and nutrition play a big part, and packaging is the rest. Nymphs in plastic cups with very little ventilation - no way. Nymphs in Yen-style (see his post) package - huge success. The need for heat-packs is seasonal.
> 
> ...


I agree with this, and would add that Frey's packing could often benefit from improvement. To that end, I have scoured around and importing two batches of nymphs from Europe this week. If they have a high survival rate, I shall pass the packing information on to her.

An important factor that you missed, though, is that summer shipping is infinitely (I say that when I can't think of a number!) safer than when the temperature is at two degrees below freezing. Those insects were probably dead before they got on the plane in Warsaw. Also, the nymphs that Mylo bought, Statilio maculata, as I remember, are a lot less robust than shields.

But if it gets Patrick a few free nymphs, the idea can't be all bad!


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## patrickfraser (Jun 5, 2011)

I think it's a superb idea. Am I the front runner? I really love the flower mantids.


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## Krissim Klaw (Jun 5, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> You are wrong, KK! I just checked yr profile and saw that one of us is on yr friends list! (Chuckles evilly).


I see you there, crushing my dreams for freebie mantises. :detective: :batman: Before this thread, I didn't even realize this forum had friends list options. It shouldn't be surprising though that my list has been empty all this time. Like the Chinese mantises I so adore I have a high rate of cannibalizing those that get too close. :shifty:


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## sporeworld (Jun 5, 2011)

Krissim Klaw said:


> I see you there, crushing my dreams for freebie mantises. :detective: :batman:
> 
> Before this thread, I didn't even realize this forum had friends list options. It shouldn't be surprising though that my list has been empty all this time. Like the Chinese mantises I so adore I have a high rate of cannibalizing those that get too close. :shifty:


Hahah! Brilliant!


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## alicenwnderlnd (Jun 5, 2011)

mylo said:


> the €7.50 she owes me is not the point it could be 50cent or 50euro it doesnt matter what the value is its the fact i paid for something i didnt get
> 
> i propose an experiment , i am in europe same as frey i will post someone in the usa a package with nymphs and an ooth for FREE , we can see how many nymphs make it or if the ooth freezes or hatches or is infertile , , so anyone who isnt on mine, phils or freys friend list on here (to make it fair) i will send to them , the nymphs i have are giant asian mantids and ive an indian flower ooth , ill post them for FREE , this could go wrong of course and no nymphs make it or the ooth doesnt hatch but i will feel some sort of gratification if they do make it and the ooth hatches to show frey how its done, id like to post them to Alice as a gesture but if shes friends with any of us 3 i will let freys spokesman phil select the person out of any interested people all i ask for is an honest comment on if the nymphs make it or if the ooth hatches , so put your name down if your interested and phil can select who he wants , perhaps a pointless experiment but i use proper packaging and i will use regular post just like frey does
> 
> id also like to point out ive no idea who gill is phil so dont assume and stick to the facts


I am not sure either what this would prove.? I really am not "Friends" with any of the three involved here, but... the experiment has been done. I have received from all, and frey's are the only that arrived alive..And FERTILE.

sorry Phil, i didn't mean that i had ordered unfertile things from you! just for the record.


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 5, 2011)

Alice said:


> I am not sure either what this would prove.? I really am not "Friends" with any of the three involved here, but... the experiment has been done. I have received from all, and frey's are the only that arrived alive..And FERTILE.
> 
> *sorry Phil, i didn't mean that i had ordered unfertile things from you! just for the record.*


No, of course not. As I explained at the time, the 25 ooths that I sent you that never hatched were all fertile, but the radioactivity from the Yuma Proving Ground down the road must have sterilized them. I am holding on to your $750, and will send you 25 more ooths, plus "one to grow on" as soon as the radioactivity from the depleted uranium dies down.


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## alicenwnderlnd (Jun 5, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> No, of course not. As I explained at the time, the 25 ooths that I sent you that never hatched were all fertile, but the radioactivity from the Yuma Proving Ground down the road must have sterilized them. I am holding on to your $750, and will send you 25 more ooths, plus "one to grow on" as soon as the radioactivity from the depleted uranium dies down.


 :lol: :lol: now what am i going to put in my spongeworld Tank?


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## d17oug18 (Jun 5, 2011)

i am on there friends list but i never talk to them, i am a professional who would love to accept your proposal mylo. I also have the equipment to incubate and i would gladly take pictures of every step of the way... Let me know, PM me.


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## patrickfraser (Jun 5, 2011)

Hey! I was first and not on any of the lists. Maybe somebody's S...t list, but not many friends' lists.


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## myles (Jun 5, 2011)

whatever, i still want my 7.50 refund from frey


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## patrickfraser (Jun 5, 2011)

OH MY!


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## Ricardo (Jun 5, 2011)

mylo said:


> whatever , if theres no point i wont do it so everyone in here can go an fuuck off especially papa smurf anyway i still want my 7.50 refund from frey


Is the experiment still up? I'm rather new to the hobby and could use a few nymphs.

You'll find that Phil and friends are not on my friends list. I will be a suitable candidate


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## patrickfraser (Jun 5, 2011)

I think the experiment has been cancelled from the sound of Mylo's last post.


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## angelofdeathzz (Jun 5, 2011)

All you guy's really want those nymphs, don't you. Kind of sad what this post has turn into. No compassion but lot's of greed...


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 5, 2011)

d17oug18 said:


> *i am on there friends list but i never talk to them*, i am a professional who would love to accept your proposal mylo. I also have the equipment to incubate and i would gladly take pictures of every step of the way... Let me know, PM me.


This is absolutely true. Not only does he not talk to me on the forum but whenever I'm in Covington and pass him on the street, he pretends not to know me, and mumbles naughty words in Spanish under his breath.


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## patrickfraser (Jun 5, 2011)

Greed??? Or just wanting something free? It wouldn't really be free, as I am out $45. I don't consider it greed, but rather a consolation prize for losing my lottery with Frey. I'm out $45. WHATEV!


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## Peter Clausen (Jun 5, 2011)

Yeah, made an edit up there to Mylo's thread. He's "elected" to take a week off. He was given the right to express himself. He did. Let's get back to the topic, in the forward direction. The point of leaving this thread open the last few days has been to allow the community to vent, together, on an issue. Obviously, some level of respect must be maintained.


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## d17oug18 (Jun 6, 2011)

PhilinYuma said:


> This is absolutely true. Not only does he not talk to me on the forum but whenever I'm in Covington and pass him on the street, he pretends not to know me, and mumbles naughty words in Spanish under his breath.


ment no disrespect PhilinYuma, But what i put there is true. Ive messaged and replied to your posts like 3 times sense ive been on here. =) Mah bad if i hurt you.

So yeah, How about those refunds eh? =)


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 6, 2011)

d17oug18 said:


> ment no disrespect PhilinYuma, But what i put there is true. Ive messaged and replied to your posts like 3 times sense ive been on here. =) Mah bad if i hurt you.
> 
> So yeah, How about those refunds eh? =)


None taken Doug! I thought that you were joking. I certainly was, in my elderly English way. I've never been to Covington in my life, but if I do, I'll look you up! Didn't we discuss breeding bettas. once? The old Styrofoam cup trick?

I _knew_ that I should have used a smiley face!   :lol:


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 6, 2011)

Peter Clausen said:


> Yeah, made an edit up there to Mylo's thread. He's "elected" to take a week off. He was given the right to express himself. He did. Let's get back to the topic, in the forward direction. The point of leaving this thread open the last few days has been to allow the community to vent, together, on an issue. Obviously, some level of respect must be maintained.


Good, except that this never was "Mylo's thread" even if he made nearly a third of the posts on it. It was/is Frey's thread. Someone once said to me that "it is a pity that she doesn't post on the forum". After this, I wouldn't blame her if she never does again, outside of For Sale. She knows details of breeding a number of rare species, with hatch rates, optimal temp and RH, etc. I had urged her to share this information on the forum, even though no other dealer does, and this was a "test' post, but I guess that no one, with a few notable exceptions, wants to hear. Keep on spritzing your ooths once a week guys, and when they don't hatch, blame the dealer.


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## Peter Clausen (Jun 6, 2011)

I meant Mylo's "post", of course...not " Mylo's thread". To be precise, this is "our community's" thread. Frey is still an active member of the community, posting when and where she wants to and clearly able, despite language differences, to speak for herself. She has not contacted me with concerns over this thread, nor posted in it lately. She opened this discussion on a public forum with selfish intentions (selfish not meaning bad or good, but in support of her interests). The community is responding to the opportunity and the thread reflects various experiences (and selfish interests) as we should guess it would. One unexpected revelation has been the general agreement that the shipping methods could be improved. While there may be members that will refuse to do business with Frey in the future, she has many happy customers and potential, future customers. This thread is about the past, the present and the future, and it is Frey's opportunity to be right with it, while illuminating the appropriate expecations for outcomes of international shipping. We've seen some assumptions occur in this thread, some misunderstandings, and some apologies. Maybe we'll see more of the above and more yet!


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## angelofdeathzz (Jun 6, 2011)

Yeah I would have to admit, Ive had some dead mantis arrive from Frey LONG ago(3 alive 15 dead) in two different shipments, but when I talked to her she made it clear that she would make it up to me, so I told her to wait till after winter passed(which is a good Idea unless you want more dead) then Myself and another member teamed up and bought way over 200 nymphs from her to get them going in the USA, We knew it was risky since she is half way around the world, but when the first Big box came and I opened it I was amazed at all the little babies made it alive 50 for 50. Then we both got another bigger shipment from her and my friend/member had a couple dead out of 50+ and I had one more death less box, I was overjoyed!

I've learned alot about Justyna in the last year and 95% is good, but I won't tell you all about that, It's personal and if she wants to share her stuff with the masses that's up to her, but I can tell you she's a busy Girl, that's not sitting by her computer 24/7 to answer you on the spot. She has improved her shipping methods as of late. The bottom line is if your nice to someone maybe you get that back, if you want to raise Helll over problems well you may just get that back. I think thats how it works even if you buy from someone down the street from you, ordering in mid winter from that far away is a big No No, if you want a better chance of survival from 1,000's of miles away use express, if not then just sit there and hope and blame yourself for sending SOME babies to their Doom. It's common sense if you ask me...

That my 2 cent's, and I'm not really defending her as much as just speaking the truth on buying overseas.

So now all the hater's can put in their 2 cent's, but I think I've said all I can say on this thread so I probably won't reply.


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## alicenwnderlnd (Jun 6, 2011)

Again, I have to speak out on this subject. We are all quick to blame somebody When we really have no idea what is really going on, We have no idea of the "deal" that transpired between two people, and that should be left alone. Every person out there has a completely different set of beliefs, morals and ethics. But what should be concentrated on is how we all can help and improve a way to get nymphs or ooths safely to us. Everyone on this forum is here because they like praying mantis, some are serious breeders, some hobby breeders, some just keep a few because they are awesome insects! I personally like the hardest to get it seems. and I know there are a lot of you guys out there like me. For me this means I must find a way to get them and it probably does not include the local breeder down the street. When I ordered from Frey, I found it was Possible!!! And the Boom of idolo and orchid nymphs proves this! With out an overseas resource we would not have them! I commend Frey for this!(AND NICK for helping get those idolo's here!) I would rather work with a breeder that is willing to take the chance on such a risky shipment then condemn for the bad issues that have taken place! When I order from Frey again,(and I will) I will be sending her a box with what i want my nymphs shipped in before hand.(if she agrees of course) and then i think it will take some of the stress off of the situation. I recently had a terrible incident where i shipped an adult mantis(express even) and when it arrived to its destination it was MANGLED. less then 24 hours in the care of the US post office and it looked like it was put in a blender! My point is that bad things happen when we entrust the care to a Post office, whether it be 24 hours or 7 days, and when a person is shipping a ton, there are even more chances of bad things to happen! A little common sense goes a long way! i also have a very high mixed emotion about ooths... I do not think i will ever sell an ooth, the risks are to great even for me. A seller has no control over what is done to that ooth during critical incubation periods, but at the same time if the ooth was never fertile, the buyer can not do a thing to make it hatch. It takes a lot of trust, and until the day when a consistent standard is set, I will stick to the breeders that offer a guarantee on them and thanks to those that do! Better yet, I have learned to make my own!  So, I am a firm believer in getting together with Frey (or any breeder across the seas!)and making things better, and i urge all of you to do the same, the future of a lot of species in US culture depend on it!


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## PhilinYuma (Jun 6, 2011)

Peter Clausen said:


> I meant Mylo's "post", of course...not " Mylo's thread". To be precise, this is "our community's" thread. Frey is still an active member of the community, posting when and where she wants to and clearly able, despite language differences, to speak for herself. She has not contacted me with concerns over this thread, nor posted in it lately. She opened this discussion on a public forum with selfish intentions (selfish not meaning bad or good, but in support of her interests). The community is responding to the opportunity and the thread reflects various experiences (and selfish interests) as we should guess it would. One unexpected revelation has been the general agreement that the shipping methods could be improved. While there may be members that will refuse to do business with Frey in the future, she has many happy customers and potential, future customers. This thread is about the past, the present and the future, and it is Frey's opportunity to be right with it, while illuminating the appropriate expecations for outcomes of international shipping. We've seen some assumptions occur in this thread, some misunderstandings, and some apologies. Maybe we'll see more of the above and more yet!


Well, Peter, I'm going to talk about you instead of to you.

This, folks, is how you conduct a debate, using sound rhetorical devices "I meant Mylo's post, _of course_" and a knowledge of yr opponent's views. As he knows, I disagree with him sharply on how much leeway members have to vent hostile opinions repetitively, and he does so "selfishly" in the sense that he uses above and with which I agree (dang!) to increase participation in what could easily become a "one post a week" forum.

Peter spends his working day saving victims from disaster or minimizing their own screw ups, so he has sharpened his natural rhetorical skills and here, follows the excellent strategy of moving immediately from my contention to address the forum at large So, I'll get you next time mate!  

This is my last post on this thread. I never had much problem with those who are angry at Frey, even though some seriously over-extend their attacks. My disappointment is with those who have a good relationship with her and didn't come forward because they wanted to avoid confrontation. I urged Frey to make her post, (I had suggested that she call it "Yes, I'm a girl!") in the expectation that she would get not just criticism but plenty of support as well. As Peter says, she will get plenty of sales in the future, and I hoped to hear more from her regular customers and hear members support the fact that she is actively trying to make changes.. Alas, I was mistaken, though there are a few shining exceptions to the trend (Hi, Alice!) and shall adjust my thinking accordingly.


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## patrickfraser (Jun 6, 2011)

My only wish was that Frey would at least "try" to make up for my purchase in some way, but it seems not the case then, nor now. I will have to let it go. I just hope she got something nice with the cash. I know I got absolutely nothing from it. Thanks Frey! You're a real peach.


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## d17oug18 (Jun 6, 2011)

Alice said:


> Again, I have to speak out on this subject. We are all quick to blame somebody When we really have no idea what is really going on, We have no idea of the "deal" that transpired between two people, and that should be left alone. Every person out there has a completely different set of beliefs, morals and ethics. But what should be concentrated on is how we all can help and *improve a way to get nymphs or ooths safely to us*. Everyone on this forum is here because they like praying mantis, some are serious breeders, some hobby breeders, some just keep a few because they are awesome insects! I personally like the hardest to get it seems. A* little common sense goes a long way!* i also have a very high mixed emotion about ooths... I do not think i will ever sell an ooth, the risks are to great even for me. A seller has no control over what is done to that ooth during critical incubation periods, but at the same time if the ooth was never fertile, the buyer can not do a thing to make it hatch. It takes a lot of trust, and until the day when a consistent standard is set, *I will stick to the breeders that offer a guarantee on them and thanks to those that do!* Better yet, I have learned to make my own!  So, I am a firm believer in getting together with Frey (or any breeder across the seas!)and making things better, and i urge all of you to do the same, the future of a lot of species in US culture depend on it!


This is by far, an extremely condescending paragraph that you have provided???

""I will stick to the breeders that offer a guarantee on them and thanks to those that do!""

That is all of our(unhappy customers) point! lol, that she does not guarantee anything. Yet you say you will only deal with breeders who do??? are you kidding me? you lost your point here and you seem very hypocritical and confused on what your talking about.(Rereading this makes me sound angry and mad, but im not.)


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## What (Jun 6, 2011)

Just want to say...if I was going to keep mantids again I would order from Frey just for the heck of it b/c of this thread. lol.


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## Colorcham427 (Jun 6, 2011)

kitkat39 said:


>


hahaha to f'ing funny.. my friends on here bust out the funny shytt before i could! and it's even funnier cuz right after i read your post "i like waffles" i thought to myself posting "i like turtles" hahaha priceless.


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## alicenwnderlnd (Jun 7, 2011)

d17oug18 said:


> This is by far, an extremely condescending paragraph that you have provided???
> 
> ""I will stick to the breeders that offer a guarantee on them and thanks to those that do!""
> 
> That is all of our(unhappy customers) point! lol, that she does not guarantee anything. Yet you say you will only deal with breeders who do??? are you kidding me? you lost your point here and you seem very hypocritical and confused on what your talking about.(Rereading this makes me sound angry and mad, but im not.)


I can see where you would think that, let me clear that up for you, if i was going to buy a creo ooth, would i go to an overseas dealer? nooooo, i am going to go to say... mantisplace.com, I know that i am going to pay a couple of bucks more, but it comes with piece of mind, If it doesn't hatch i can send it back! its common sense. what i want from frey, is the stuff that i can not get here. And that, she is providing. I have had great experience with frey's ooths as i have had 100% hatch rate, but i still would not go to her for an ooth that i can get from a local breeder with a guarantee. its just good old fashion common sense.

it still kind of makes me wonder why people would think that frey is going to guarantee something that is in the mail for anywhere between 5-12 days, If i get on the classifieds right now and order 15 nymphs from anybody, get regular shipping are they going to guarantee live delivery? NO, now if i use overnight then that changes things and guarantees are in order. we do not have that option with an overseas package. all we can do is ask ourselves if we are feeling lucky.

so here comes the hypocritical part, if frey posted right now, ooths from Orchids, Idolomantis, or P. wahlbergii half this forum would jump on it, me included. but as a regular practice, i want a guarantee. so hypocritical, yes but truthful.


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## Ruaumoko (Jun 7, 2011)

Frey has just assured me that if my Mantis arrive dead then she will replace them. This is assuming I go with the quicker more expensive shipping option. I for one am willing to m=put my trust in Frey. Although I am away on Holidays for a while so when I get back watch this space


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