# Am I doing something wrong with my nymphs? [Mismolts]



## SansVertigo (Jan 20, 2019)

Hey folks, I'm from Melbourne, Australia and I'm pretty concerned with how my nymphs have been doing. I'll start from the start-

I bought 6 L1 archimantis sp. nymphs from Perth (Western Australia). As far as I know, they're from a wild caught female's ooth and hatched Christmas Eve. They were sent out and arrived Friday 4th of Jan.

*Friday 4th: *Arrived. They were all in seperate pill containers with a bit of wet paper towel at the bottom, so I kept them like that and added some paper towel under the lids for them to hand onto (there wasn't anything for them prior), and replaced the wet paper towel because it was getting dry and dirty. One of the nymphs was completely missing from their container before opening- likely got through the air holes while in transit. Shucks, I'm already down to 5 of 6 nymphs.  All 5 nymphs were fed fruitflies and ate well. I numbered all of them from A1 to A5. 

*Sat 5th: *One nymph (A2) found dead the next morning, probably stress from transit? So only 4/6 nymphs remain.

*Sun 6th:* Hooray, A4 molted to L2 with no drama! All remaining nymphs fed/watered/cleaned. 

*Tue 8th:* All remaining nymphs fed/watered/cleaned. A3 had it's leg caught in the lid (I think I closed the container on it without realising), and unfortunately lost the leg before I realised what happened. 

*Wed 9th: *A1 Molted to L2, one leg had come out wonky but it was not the end of the world- I've had worse repair in the next molt. 

*Thu 10th:* A5 Molted to L2, clean no dramas. All remaining nymphs fed/watered/cleaned. 

*Fri 11th: *A3 Molted, stuck in molt to L2. Was able to hang fine, but seemed to be stuck halfway. Froze the poor thing after 5 hours of waiting and no progress.  Stuck my hand into the container to check, the paper towel was still very wet, missing leg a factor? Now only 3/6 nymphs remain, all L2 now.

*Sat 12th:* All remaining nymphs fed/watered/cleaned. 

*Sun 13th: *All remaining nymphs fed. 

*Tue 15th: *All remaining nymphs fed/watered/cleaned. 

*Thu 17th: *All remaining nymphs fed/watered/cleaned. 

*Fri 18th:* A4 molted to L3, no drama. Moved to a larger cup with more mesh and wet paper towel at the bottom, the pill box seemed too small for L3.

*Sat 19th:* All remaining nymphs fed/watered/cleaned, changed paper towel under lids to cloth- figuring that they would provide better grip. 

*Mon 21st: *A5 molted, stuck in molt to L3. Was found hanging from top by 1 leg, unable to progress and with bent forelimbs. After waiting a while and seeing no progress, it was frozen. Now only 2/6 nymphs remain. 

So I've moved the remaining 2 nymphs (A1 at L2 and A4 at L3), out of the pill boxes and into their own cups, with mesh (tulle) on all sides, in the lid and wet paper towel on the bottom just in case the pill box set ups were the devil to my nymphs. Is there anything that I did particularly wrong? Pill boxes are too small and a no-go? Rotten luck? Are issues common with L1-L3 mantis? In any case, A1 is expected to molt into L3 any day now. Err, I hope this all wasn't too confusing to read. 

I'm pretty worried that I've done something wrong, I have ooths from pseudomantis albofimbriata that are expecting next month or so. I don't want to kill all my nymphs.


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## Synapze (Jan 20, 2019)

Hey back!

What is your temperature &amp; humidity?

What is the height and width of your containers?

Shouldn't involve bad luck.


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## SansVertigo (Jan 20, 2019)

It's summer here the the moment, so things have been hovering around 25C or 77F, there's been some heat waves in the past few weeks with outdoor temps peaking over 100F, though at most indoors my insects get 28C or 82F. 

I can't say too much on humidity though, I don't have anything to measure it. We usually get by, using touch to check humidity- but I'm used to using small aquarium sized containers where I can really tell the difference. We've been having to run air conditioning quite often through the house, which has been drying out my larger enclosures faster. Would saturated wet towel not have been enough? 

Containers are about 4cm tall, and about 3cm wide.

I'd prefer something fixable than luck.


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## Synapze (Jan 21, 2019)

SansVertigo said:


> I can't say﻿ ﻿too much o﻿n humidity though, I don't have anything to measure ﻿it.


You should consider buying a temperature &amp; humidity meter. Humidity and/or temperature spikes can affect molting and A/C and heating can really cause rapid humidity fluctuations. I've found that maintaining consistent humidity and temperature levels (within recommended zones for the species) is the best course.



SansVertigo said:


> Would saturated﻿﻿﻿﻿ wet towel not have been enough? ﻿


Could be too much.



SansVertigo said:


> Containers﻿ are﻿ about 4cm tall, and about ﻿3cm wide.﻿﻿


It wouldn't be a bad idea to get larger containers and use mesh. 

Hope this helps.


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## SansVertigo (Jan 21, 2019)

Ahh thanks, I'll be getting a hygrometer soon then.

The only issue is I have no information on the humidity range needed for this species. It's just "mist daily, don't let it get too dry!" But in any case, I'll probably compare humidity in all my enclosures and use my existing successful enclosures of my other archimantis as a reference. I'll have to do some trial and error and make those numbers myself. This genus tends to come from grassy, temperate to semi-arid places... so maybe I overdid it with the smaller nymphs.

Thanks though, this gives me somewhere to start.


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## hysteresis (Jan 21, 2019)

@SansVertigo

The answer I think, to stabilizing humidity, is more substrate.

I use sterile cotton pads changed out every few days. Think makeup removal pads, but no additives. I spray the down face in-hand to suit, then when I spray the cup, some moistens the up face.

If your environment is bone dry, use two pads. I dunno.

Here are some examples of what I use.

I really recommend the vented lid deli cups. Various sizes. AWESOME. And very effective. 

I use the jars too, meshed or with filter paper.

For larger enclosures and terrariums,  coco fiber (eco earth) is great .. eg. my exoterra.


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## MantisGirl13 (Jan 21, 2019)

Young nymphs often are more vulnerable to heat, humidity, and ventilation than older nymphs. Keep them in containers with plenty of ventilation and space, and mist once daily. That should be ok, but I have never kept this species before, so I don't know the basic requirements.

- MantisGirl13


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## Mantis Lady (Jan 21, 2019)

@SansVertigoToo bad you lost 4 of the 6 nymphsI hope the 2 you have left will make it to adulthood.

I use the biggest cups like in @hysteresis pic.  Instead of cotton pads i use kitchen paper. I clean that every couple of days (mantids poop a lot) They can molt several times in there till they are too big for that.  (You can look for a bigger container later) I mist them 1x a day.


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## SansVertigo (Jan 25, 2019)

Thanks all for responses so far!

I changed my set up recently to use deli cups like in the photo, and I’m waiting on a hygrometer to arrive.

But I think 1 of the 2 is now on its way out... this morning I noticed my L2 nymph throwing up some brown/reddish stuff onto the lid- he last had fruit flies about 48 hours ago. Not long ago I just found him on his back on the ground, alive but very weak. I’m not sure if this is directly to do with the current deli cup set up or my flies, or my changes came too late. I really need to get a handle on rearing the tiny guys. 

We’re in a bit of a heatwave right now and temperatures have been hovering around 86F or 30C indoors even with cooling on full, which is not ideal but tolerable for most archimantis... the other nymph is going strong, so I hope I don’t mess things up for it if it ends up being the last of the group.


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## hysteresis (Jan 25, 2019)

Present a light honey X water solution. It gets them.to drink. At least it gives energy and hydration. Maybe the honey fights infection. 

Afterwards present just water to clean up the mouth.

Hope things improve.


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## MantisGirl13 (Jan 25, 2019)

Sorry he is not looking good! If you can keep them a bit cooler, that may help. They may just be overheating. 

If the vomit smells bad, and is dark, then change out your fruit fly culture right away. There could be mold of another bacteria in it that is affecting your mantids.

- MantisGirl13


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## Hatsuneko (Mar 6, 2019)

It may not help in this case, but I found out the hard way that some small nymphs need distilled water because even the minerals in spring water will kill them.  (We lost some spinys that way).


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## hysteresis (Mar 6, 2019)

Hatsuneko said:


> It may not help in this case, but I found out the hard way that some small nymphs need distilled water because even the minerals in spring water will kill them.  (We lost some spinys that way).


I did switch over a while ago. For health, but also, the water spots were KILLING me!


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## Hatsuneko (Mar 6, 2019)

I didn't even realize the water spots were so bad until we switched over and started cleaning them off!


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