# Green form Phyllocrania paradoxa



## randa4 (Jan 31, 2015)

If a female green phase Ghost is mated with a brown phase male Ghost, will the offspring have a percentage of green forms? Is it genetic, environmental, or neither?


----------



## agent A (Jan 31, 2015)

only female ghosts can be green

so only female offspring will have the gene

if its recessive, both female chromosomes will have the gene and all female offspring will carry it

im assuming mantises follow the same sex determination system as roaches, males being X and females being XX but it isnt fully known how the chromosomes carry

i think it's a combination of both because i have had female ghosts produce all brown daughters and dark red females produce green daughters


----------



## mantisman111 (Jan 31, 2015)

Also depends if it's recessive X-linked or not, as well. A lot of factors go into it and we unfortunately don't have all of the biological info about mantids to tell what the chances will be.


----------



## randa4 (Jan 31, 2015)

Yes, thank you, think I got it. And from my Genetics class many years ago in college, think that recessive genes are not necessarily expressed in the F1 generation, or even F2 or beyond. Guess that means I need to feel grateful for any green female Ghosts that show up!


----------



## randa4 (Jan 31, 2015)

Sorry, thanks to you both.


----------



## LAME (Jan 31, 2015)

agent A said:


> only female ghosts can be green
> 
> so only female offspring will have the gene
> 
> if its recessive, both female chromosomes will have the gene and all female offspring will carry it.


I may have to disagree with this one, I currently own a male that's green/yellowish in coloring. I'll post an untampered photo later on when I get the opportunity.Edit: photo, not the best... Cellphone shot.


----------



## randa4 (Jan 31, 2015)

Still a great pic, wonderful coloring! Would love to see the next photo. Thanks for sharing this. What color were the parents?


----------



## MantidBro (Feb 1, 2015)

yeah i agree with LAME, males can definitely be green


----------



## LAME (Feb 1, 2015)

randa4 said:


> Still a great pic, wonderful coloring! Would love to see the next photo. Thanks for sharing this. What color were the parents?


Now that's a good question! I received him and a brother from Rebecca here at the forum ( freebie for supporting the forum) I can try to msg her and find out, but not sure she'd remember. Worth a shot though...

Honestly I was hoping for a green female myself, but he's a cool little guy too and recently got him a mate for later, she's a very dark one.


----------



## randa4 (Feb 1, 2015)

Sure has me curious. Be great if you could fund out.

Is that Rebecca from Mantis.place? Just ordered two green and three brown Ghosts from her, plus a bunch of feeders. Be interesting to see who's who gender wise. She seems very nice.

Your mixed color male is pretty awesome. Their offspring with the dark female could be really interesting!


----------



## randa4 (Feb 1, 2015)

"find"


----------



## LAME (Feb 1, 2015)

randa4 said:


> Sure has me curious. Be great if you could fund out.
> 
> Is that Rebecca from Mantis.place? Just ordered two green and three brown Ghosts from her, plus a bunch of feeders. Be interesting to see who's who gender wise. She seems very nice.
> 
> Your mixed color male is pretty awesome. Their offspring with the dark female could be really interesting!


Thank you, actually he's my girlfriends favorite of my current collection ( though, she's not much into the mantis hobby...) I'm more pulled towards larger breeds of mantises myself.But yes, that'd be Rebecca... She's real good people and you'll find many of the members in the community are as well. We're all here for each other and in this hobby together.

Though I must admit, even though I'm not so much into the smaller species... The ghost has a unique body build which attracted my eye, I too can't wait to mate mine and see the genetic outcome of the two. =)


----------



## randa4 (Feb 1, 2015)

That's really good to hear- I am a newbie, and knowing there is a strong and supportive mantid community is a great feeling. Especially since I will have a whole lot of questions as I start to learn.

Larger mantids also have my attention as well - my first ones are a herd of 6 Indian Violins, most L3, one molted into L4 today. They are very active and have great personalities.

And, same for me. The Ghosts are structurally cool, and really get my attention. The green ones are the best!

Yes, for sure, please keep me posted on your mating and the offspring, and thanks for a great chat.


----------



## dmina (Feb 3, 2015)

I got a male from LAME that had a green tint to him.. he molted yesterday.. and he was even greener.. but as he hardened he lost a lot of the green,, but does have a definite green tinge to him..









Here are my girls:

Girl 1





Girl 2





Girl 3


----------



## LAME (Feb 3, 2015)

Yes, the male known as "Cyprus", the brother of my Nymbit. He was originally always dark in color in younger instars, but as he grew and hit closer to pre-sub he started to lighten more and more with each molt. He's now officially subadult and clearly more brighter than he originally was.


----------



## randa4 (Feb 3, 2015)

Wow, dmina, the pics of your Ghosts are wonderful! That Nymbit and Cypris are not typical, and have a bit of greenish and LAME's light mottled patterns is very exciting. The green girls are right off the scale.  Love the green form, and having mixed color nymphs would be great. I hope both of you can get your males to breed with brown and green females to see what pops out of the ooths.

Have 2 green females and 3 brown Ghost nymphs coming tomorrow from Rebecca. Also some feeder flies - HF for the Ghosts and BB for the Violins. Got 1K of BB pupae with the Violins, but they are old and have only hatched out three flies so far. Have fed the L3-L4 Violins with some small crickets, and they eat them well, but want to get them back on flies. Also live in Tucson, and the weather has been in the 70's during the day, and not too cold at night - will work on collecting moths from some lights outside to give both mantids some flying treats. There are also butterflies out during the day, and think they would work well also. Hesitated to say this, since you all still have winter. Instead of that we get blazing hot from May-September, and since I do not like cold, it is fine with me. This time of year of SoCal weather, clear blue skies and warm.

It is wonderful to chat mantids with you both, and I am really glad I joined the group. Since I am a newbie, know I will pester you both with questions, and would always like to hear how your mantids are doing. Thanks again.


----------



## randa4 (Feb 3, 2015)

P.S. dMina, left you a post about your orchids, and hope you might try them as houseplants. Not difficult, and would be fun to see them rebloom (also give you a great photo background for your orchid girls.


----------



## dmina (Feb 3, 2015)

Yeah.. I seen the post.. I am going to try and keep them for a while.. looked them up and am trying the 3 ice cube a week method..

I can't wait to see your new nymphs... Rebecca is a sweetheart... Love her...

I put up a few more pics of my ghosts on my collection thread if you are interested...

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34114&amp;page=8

I have had all my ghosts from L2.. so I am praying they make it to adult.. I really want to see what the breeding will bring...

I think the Ghosts are one of my favorites... they are so active.. and love to be held... and they dance!... LOL


----------



## PlayingMantis (Feb 3, 2015)

I've had green pre-sub/sub male ghosts, not as green as the females, more like greenish yellow or greenish brown. However, every time they molted to adult, they would become brown. It would be really interesting to see a green male adult.


----------



## LAME (Feb 3, 2015)

Lol they indeed dance, sometimes a bit more than you'd like while trying to get a good photo lol...

I also had nymbit and cyprus from L2 but traded dmina cyprus in exchange for a female, definitely will attempt to breed when timings right and will let you know the status.

I really wish I could get ahold of a batch of moths and butterflies myself, but Illinois is still locked down with winter weather and don't think anyone here breeds them... Let alone know if they'd even make a 2-3 day trip through the mail.


----------



## dmina (Feb 3, 2015)

I know I keep looking for something different to feed them.. feel like they might get bored.. but I guess what we are feeding is better then nothing... I had some seed moths going a couple months back... man... the mantis loved the larvae... they turned to moths... and bred... but no new larvae as of yet... I will let you know if something shows up again..

Really keeping my fingers crossed that I can breed them.. as they are a favorite!


----------



## dmina (Feb 3, 2015)

randa4 said:


> Also live in Tucson, and the weather has been in the 70's during the day, and not too cold at night - will work on collecting moths from some lights outside to give both mantids some flying treats. There are also butterflies out during the day, and think they would work well also. Hesitated to say this, since you all still have winter. Instead of that we get blazing hot from May-September, and since I do not like cold, it is fine with me. This time of year of SoCal weather, clear blue skies and warm.It is wonderful to chat mantids with you both, and I am really glad I joined the group. Since I am a newbie, know I will pester you both with questions, and would always like to hear how your mantids are doing. Thanks again.


No pestering.. ask away.. love to talk mantids.. and happy to help all I can.. very new to this myself!

And do you happen to have a spare room or 2? I love Arizona.. would move there in a heartbeat!... I have been there 3 times so far.. Just have to find a way to get there permanently!

I am glad you found the group also...So glad you like to talk! now all we need is some pics from you! Looking forward to those babies coming...


----------



## randa4 (Feb 3, 2015)

Can't wait to get my Ghosta ad start taking pics! Denise, your photo album is wonderful, and really liked the Creo female and ooth.

LAME, your comment is also part of my plan. I have reared butterflies and moths for years, and there are some species I might be able to breed and send you guys pupae. It will be a fun experiment. There is also a very common sphinx moth (Hyles lineata) White-Lined Morning Sphinx that is very easy to rear. They do come out big for a mantis, but perhaps not too big for a large adult. If I keep the caterpillars a little hungry, I can stunt them a bit so they'd be smaller. Butterflies might be a little easier - Giant Swallowtails are common, and the adults have big wings, but a nice, smaller body that is definitely mantis size. I will work on it, starting later this month. Be fun to share these and see how they work.


----------



## randa4 (Feb 3, 2015)

P.S. The ones I would rear will pupate and come out in a couple of weeks. Easy to care for.


----------



## randa4 (Feb 3, 2015)

Thanks, Denise

I love Tucson-been coming here since 1971, and knew it was the place I wanted to retire. Been here a year, and it couldn't be better. My house is pretty small, and the second bedroom is now a mantis-poison dart from room, but please come and visit. It is a wonderful place.

Will work on getting some moth and butterfly pupae as it gets warmer here. We'll see.

Pics of Ghosts and Violins coming soon. :shifty:


----------



## LAME (Feb 3, 2015)

Heck yeah, I'd definitely buy some my man =)

Any and all sizes welcome here, I don't discriminate. Every insect gets the equal opportunity to be fed off to one of my Lovelies.

XD


----------



## dmina (Feb 4, 2015)

Good luck with the moths &amp; butterflies... sound interesting...

Also looking forward to photo's of both...


----------



## randa4 (Feb 4, 2015)

Ghosts got here this morning! All are fine. Two green females and three brown guys. They are so cool! Giving them a quiet day with a little misting, since they are probably a little tired from traveling.

Another two of the Violins have molted from L3-L4- amazing to see how much bigger they are after hardening up.

Pics coming soon.


----------



## dmina (Feb 4, 2015)

Glad they made it safely... can't wait for an update..


----------

