# Mantis anatomy



## Red Ryder (Nov 15, 2006)

I am new to the study of these fascinating creatures and am seeking some basic information about their anatomy.

I'm not sure how to distinguish between the sexes of mantis images I have recorded.

I have read about the female ovipositor (sp?), but am not sure what it looks like or if it is even visible.

I have read the female wing is shorter than the male's, but compared to what?

Obviously, I am ignorant about the basics of this subject!

I have uploaded some mantid images that illustrate what I'm confused about. Go to:

http://www.consider-the-lilies.org/Praying...antis%20III.htm

Thank you!


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## robo mantis (Nov 15, 2006)

the one in the pic is male


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## Shelbycsx (Nov 15, 2006)

Disclaimer: I'm still a noob and am learning quite a bit, but I may possibly wrong about something. Let the pro's confirm or correct my errors :wink:



> but compared to what?


Usually the size reference is comparing a male to a female specimen. Obviously you can't compare unless you have multiples, but for example: Notice the size difference of these two and compare the wings of these two on Mantis Kingdom.

As far as sexing them, I believe you count the segments on the thorax. I think the female always has two or three more segments than the male. Typically i've seen the numbers 5 for male 8 for female. But once again, I may be wrong. And it may even be different between species. I'd guess that if you get shots of underneath and post them here, you'd get a difinitive result.

Hope this helps


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## joossa (Nov 15, 2006)

You count the segments on the abdomen, not the thorax. And it's usually 6 for females and 8 for males.


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## Rick (Nov 16, 2006)

> Disclaimer: I'm still a noob and am learning quite a bit, but I may possibly wrong about something. Let the pro's confirm or correct my errors :wink:
> 
> 
> > but compared to what?
> ...


You're wrong. The mantis in the pic is a bit hard to tell since it is not an adult yet. You can't go off the wings of a non adult mantis. Count the segments on the abdomen from underneath. Females will have six and anything more than that is a male. Once they mature into adults sexing is very, very easy. I can tell at just a glance what sex an adult is. Females are typically larger and more heavy bodied than the males. Also with adults the abdomens look completly different. Also, Red Ryder please introduce yourself in the introductions forum.


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## Sheldon Johnson (Nov 16, 2006)

Ive never kept an S.carolina before, but i would venture a guess that its female, since it seems to have female genitalia on its last segment.


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## Rick (Nov 16, 2006)

> Ive never kept an S.carolina before, but i would venture a guess that its female, since it seems to have female genitalia on its last segment.


Its not an adult so the genitalia looks basically the same on both sexes.


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## Rick (Nov 16, 2006)

> > Ive never kept an S.carolina before' date=' but i would venture a guess that its female, since it seems to have female genitalia on its last segment.[/quote']Its not an adult so the genitalia looks basically the same on both sexes. The last segment looks large so it probably is a female.


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## Sheldon Johnson (Nov 16, 2006)

Looks too defined though, take a look at some sub adult nymphs and you can tell no problem. i know its not a great method of sexing and at younger ages it just wont work, but im pretty sure that this IS a female.


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## Red Ryder (Nov 16, 2006)

Thanks for the responses; I've learned from all your inputs.

Another question: Since the second image does display the genitalia of either a male or female, am I right in my understanding that both sexes have these organs?

If so, how do they change between sexes when they are mature?


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## ABbuggin (Nov 16, 2006)

That is a subadult female _Chinese_ mantis. There is no way it is a carolina!!! I am positive.


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## Sheldon Johnson (Nov 16, 2006)

Hello... Im stalking these forums today, since im procrastinating from my work (I hate the writeup stuff, but love the code... guess what im doing?).

Basically gender is static, but mantids tend to look the same up until a certain size, at which point you can begin to sex them. The most reliable way to sex a mantis is to use the 6/8 segment technique. If it has 6 or 8 segments on the underside of the abdomen, its a female/male respectivly. However the smaller the mantis the harder this is to acheive!

There are other methods of sexing, some species have specific "tells" from a young age, one example of this is Gonyglus gongloides, where the male has to develop large "fluffly" antenna for adulthood, but begins at about L3 and can be distinguished by a very think antenna base, every moult up until adulthood, the antenna will become thicker and this will go further up the antenna until adulthood when they are finnaly developed and are released as a fluffy long featherlike antenna (rather beautiful really!). Whilst on the other side of the coin, the female will have very small fine antenna, all the way through its life.

Also when you breed a single species enough you can begin to tell by eye from a reasonably young age what gender this is via even the smallest of attributes. Whilst this isnt a good method to rely on, when you have 100 of so of the same species, its rather useful to determine gender numbers.

Back to the bit you wanted to hear... What i was refering to, was the last segment of the abdomen in the mantis in question. Whilst up until a certain age, males and females (generally) look alike, when the mantis nears adult hood, gender specific attributes begin to show.

However the more i look at the photo, the more certain i am becoming that it is a female.


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## Rick (Nov 16, 2006)

I am also pretty sure its a female. I don't expect somebody new to this to figure sex by looking at genitalia on a nymph. Counting the segments from the underside is the best way in this situation.


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## Rob Byatt (Nov 16, 2006)

> You're wrong. The mantis in the pic is a bit hard to tell since it is not an adult yet. You can't go off the wings of a non adult mantis.


Actually you can with some species, particularly if the females are brachypterous, for example _Euchomenella_ spp. The wing pads will not overlap as they will in the male, so that is a definitive difference.

You can also see differences in the 'overlap' between male and female with other species eg. _Cilnia humeralis_, _Popa_ spp.

However, unless you know that the mantid is subadult, then it is not a very easy way to sex them. Much better to count the visible ventral segments.

Sheldon is correct about specific attributes; I no longer sex orchids mantids by the segment method - it is far easier to look at the proportion of the femoral lobes. But this is only easy when you breed large numbers.

Rob.


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