# Insects Mantises CANNOT eat?



## ArcticMantis (May 21, 2019)

Mantises are super voracious and apparently are not very picky when it comes to what they eat, other than sticking to things that are small enough for them to actually eat (and sometimes not even then; I'm looking at you, mantises that kill and try to eat hummingbirds ). I've come across scientific papers that describe mantises eating non-palatable or even poisonous prey, which the mantises are apparently immune to, when they are hungry. 

so my question is this: are there any prey species that mantises CANNOT eat? Something with poison that WILL kill a mantis, or one with a physical defence that means, even if they're in the mantis' grasp, the predator is unable/ unwilling to eat it? I don't mean things that are too big or are predators targeting the mantises themselves, or thanatosis (i.e. playing dead), which is more about making it so the mantis can't see you than a physical inability to eat the animal. I mean species that have anti-predator defences that ACTUALLY work against the amazing killing machine that is the praying mantis.

thanks in advance


----------



## MintyWood826 (May 27, 2019)

I'm not sure about other insects, but carrot-fed crickets are supposed to be fatal.


----------



## MantisGirl13 (May 27, 2019)

MintyWood826 said:


> I'm not sure about other insects, but carrot-fed crickets are supposed to be fatal.


They aren't always fatal, but if they aren't taken care of with utmost cleanliness, they can carry a bacteria which leads to black death, a disease that causes the mantis to throw up a black smelly substance, then go into convulsions and die.

- MantisGirl13


----------



## MintyWood826 (May 27, 2019)

MantisGirl13 said:


> They aren't always fatal, but if they aren't taken care of with utmost cleanliness, they can carry a bacteria which leads to black death, a disease that causes the mantis to throw up a black smelly substance, then go into convulsions and die.
> 
> - MantisGirl13


Do you have a source or study I can read about the bacteria? I'm interested but can't find much info besides what's on this forum. Disease in arthropods is something that is sadly under studied.

Just a thought--could falcarinol be a culprit, being a pesticide found in carrots?


----------



## hysteresis (May 27, 2019)

I read there's something crickets don't digest well in carrots, and it's that something that hurts mantises. I saw a photo of a mantis eating around carrots on a cricket's gut.

But many feed their dubia carrots and their mantises do fine.



MintyWood826 said:


> Do you have a source or study I can read about the bacteria? I'm interested but can't find much info besides what's on this forum. Disease in arthropods is something that is sadly under studied.
> 
> Just a thought--could falcarinol be a culprit, being a pesticide found in carrots?


I dont know which bacteria, but apparently this virus: Acheta domesticus Densovirus (AdDNV)


----------



## MintyWood826 (Jun 7, 2019)

hysteresis said:


> I dont know﻿﻿﻿ which bacteria, but apparently this virus: Acheta domesticus﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿﻿ Densovirus (AdDNV)


I was under the impression that this disease could only infect crickets.


----------



## hysteresis (Jun 7, 2019)

MintyWood826 said:


> I was under the impression that this disease could only infect crickets.


Arthropods. I don't know. 

https://entomologytoday.org/2014/12/22/cricket-virus-leads-to-illegal-importation-of-foreign-species-for-pet-food/


----------



## hibiscusmile (Jun 9, 2019)

I know that it is said not to feed ants as they can hurt the mantis, I suppose they could craw on the mantis and start eating them where the mantis could not reach? I heard the same you's did on carrot fed crickets.


----------



## MantisGirl13 (Jun 9, 2019)

hibiscusmile said:


> I know that it is said not to feed ants as they can hurt the mantis, I suppose they could craw on the mantis and start eating them where the mantis could not reach? I heard the same you's did on carrot fed crickets.


Ya, ants are not good food for mantids. I think they release a chemical that isn't good for the mantis and makes the ant taste bad.

- MantisGirl13


----------



## MintyWood826 (Jun 9, 2019)

hysteresis said:


> Arthropods. I don't know.
> 
> https://entomologytoday.org/2014/12/22/cricket-virus-leads-to-illegal-importation-of-foreign-species-for-pet-food/


I'll look into this further and reply more eventually because I'm really curious about this black death now.



hibiscusmile said:


> I know that it is said not to feed ants as they can hurt the mantis, I suppose they could craw on the mantis and start eating them where the mantis could not reach? I heard the same you's did on carrot fed crickets.


Ants definitely can kill things much larger than them in swarms. I've seen horror stories on another forum. 



MantisGirl13 said:


> Ya, ants are not good food for mantids. I think they release a chemical that isn't good for the mantis and makes the ant taste bad.
> 
> - MantisGirl13


Formic acid, if anyone wants to know the name.


----------



## hysteresis (Jun 9, 2019)

Funny. I remember a FB post where a top shelf breeder was catching wild ants (with wings, seasonal) and feeding them to mantises.


----------



## ohaple (Jun 10, 2019)

I always avoid carrot due to the discussion above. When other veggies are cheap and plentiful I find that there is no reason to risk it.

I would avoid feeding insects that are known to be venomous, poisonous or aggressive. For instance I would not feed boxelder bugs (which release a nasty substance), wasps, red ants, etc.

I also avoid feeding wild caught insects due to the risk of contamination, but I know others have used wild feeders with success.

It is also beneficial if the feeders are easy to contain and will not scare the mantis. Movement often triggers their prey drive, so I look for prey that move consistently when possible.


----------



## River Dane (Jun 10, 2019)

hysteresis said:


> Funny. I remember a FB post where a top shelf breeder was catching wild ants (with wings, seasonal) and feeding them to mantises.


Ant alates, the queens and kings. Afaik, the males are defenseless.



hibiscusmile said:


> I suppose they could craw on the mantis and start eating them where the mantis could not reach?


That happened to one of my first mantises. Had a friend watch him over vacation, but he had an ant problem and they killed him


----------



## Introvertebrate (Jun 12, 2019)

MintyWood826 said:


> I was under the impression that this disease could only infect crickets.


You’re right, but apparently some mantids have been effected by unhealthy crickets.  Some of what we do is more art than science.  Someone has some bad experiences, and we modify our game plan.


----------



## Acro (Jul 1, 2019)

They can't eat some beetles that are too tough or difficult to grasp.  For example, most darkling beetles give mantids problems.  They either can't bite into them (too hard), or they are so smooth (as some retract their legs and are very round) that they are hard to grasp and chew.


----------



## Rabidjellyfish (Jul 18, 2019)

MantisGirl13 said:


> Ya, ants are not good food for mantids. I think they release a chemical that isn't good for the mantis and makes the ant taste bad.
> 
> - MantisGirl13


Funnily enough a few weeks ago in my backyard a wild mantis ran onto my hand holding an ant. Sat there for a moment considering me and the ant, then ran off leaving the confused ant behind lol.


----------



## hibiscusmile (Jul 22, 2019)

Watching discovery channel I have seen where ants can carry a body away to a nest and eat it, also have seen on crime shows where they thought that (unrelated but interesting all the same)  maggots can remove clothing on a dead body ( I guess by enough pushing on the skin) to make it look like someone was sexually abused but was actually not.


----------



## hibiscusmile (Jul 22, 2019)

hibiscusmile said:


> Watching discovery channel I have seen where ants can carry a body away to a nest and eat it, also have seen on crime shows where they thought that (unrelated but interesting all the same)  maggots can remove clothing on a dead body ( I guess by enough pushing on the skin) to make it look like someone was sexually abused but was actually not).


Which makes u wonder how many have been accussed of that crime when they didn't do it before science caught up with it.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2019)

I fed a horn worm to a mantid and the mantid died a couple days later.  The hornworm was eating mulberry and I think its own feces. 

I just lost 2 mantids to black death.  They ate crickets that were infected with the virus I guess. 

Can mantids eat crickets feeding on potato?


----------



## hysteresis (Jul 29, 2019)

I think its more important that the crix eat fresh vegies and cricket chow. Be well watered down so as to flush away gut bacteria from dirty enclosures at the pet store.

Keep your crix dry with tons of ventilation.

I think they can eat anything feeding on anything. I've seen vids were they eat around carrot in the gut.


----------



## MintyWood826 (Jul 29, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> I fed﻿﻿ a horn worm to a mantid and the mantid died a couple days﻿ later.  The hornworm was eating mulberry and I think its own ﻿feces. ﻿


Was the hornworm wildcaught? If I recall correctly, they eat poisonous plants like tomato leaves.


----------



## hysteresis (Jul 29, 2019)

Okay ill not consider horn worms for large mantids then. Too expensive anyway. At least here in  .


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 30, 2019)

The horn worm I fed to my mantid was store bought.  I was assured it did not eat tomato leaves.  But if the horn worm ate its own feces, maybe the feces had too much bad bacteria?


----------



## melonberries (Nov 25, 2019)

Can the ovipositor on crickets be harmful to a mantid's digestive system if they ingest it? It looks really pointy and sharp like a needle.


----------



## MantisGirl13 (Nov 26, 2019)

melonberries said:


> Can the ovipositor on crickets be harmful to a mantid's digestive system if they ingest it? It looks really pointy and sharp like a needle.


No. They will chew it up when they eat it, and also, its not very sharp, just flexible.

- MantisGirl13


----------



## MrZorak (Dec 23, 2019)

I tried once to feed a firefly to a mantis, who instantly rejected it after taking a bite. I learned that part of firefly self defense is that they taste absolutely terrible, so birds and other predators largely avoid them. Another feeder that did not work out welt was an ant. I once fed a small ant to a spiny flower mantis. The ant bit down on the forearm of the mantis. The mantis was able to eat the ant off of the forearm but I suspect if it were biting in a different spot, or if it was a bigger ant, there would have been a problem (the spiny was an L3 or so nymph at the time).


----------

