# Adult Idolo molting enclosure



## papilio_ (Jan 9, 2015)

My female Idolo has been sub for over three months , so it should be any time now! Partially through reading old posts about the problems Idolos tend to have with their maturing molts, and also with the generous advice of Precarious, I've come up with this enclosure. Largely putting aesthetics aside and designing the housing in such a way that she'll have little option of choosing to hang from a spot too near the ground as they often do, I'm hoping that this will offer the best chance for success.

While browsing at Target this white, foam-covered shelf lining immediately caught my eye, and my observations to this point have been that the material is nearly perfect for the task. In her previous enclosure within which I had tried all sorts of types of twigs on which she might move about, it seemed that no matter how well-textured the branches she would nearly always have a difficult time establishing a firm footing, typically I'd see her taking numerous stabs at the twigs before her tarsal claws found their grip. With this material nearly every step she takes is immediately secure and I've not, since she was much younger and smaller, seen her able to maneuver with such ease. The foam clearly poses no threat of damaging her feet the way wire window screening has been known to do, and it also appears to be far more secure than the surface of the common net style enclosures.

The housing is an acrylic T enclosure, 6x6x12 and set on end. On my first construction which had the foam hot-glued across the ceiling and completely down each side I discovered that the heat lamp was providing little effect with that foam in the way (I've chosen to have it shining from the side so as not to obstruct my view), so this newer version leaves an opening lower down on one side, with only vine branches hot-glued across it should she need to find her way across the gap. There is a 2-inch deep tub on the floor filled with humidity foam and topped with spag moss in order to keep the humidity up, and with the heat lamp turned on during the day at a distance of about a foot the environment remains at about 90F and 60% humidity (with the humidity climbing at night as the lamp is switched off by the timer).

As an indication of her ease in moving about the new housing, I've put 5 or 6 BBs in at a time and found them all gone within about ten minutes. When she had only the twigs on which to maneuver this would typically take far longer, and I had always felt bad for her watching the way she'd had to struggle to get around. Those are _such_ tiny feet for an enormous insect like this.

As I didn't wish to mess up the acrylic by hot-gluing directly onto it, I've used these strips of masking tape as anchors. I'd always thought that hot-glue adhered to pretty much everything! Surprisingly, I found that it adhered securely neither to the tape nor the foam, so on my second re-build I first applied a thin zig-zag of glue to the tape before adding the bead of glue for the foam, and then applied another bead above the foam which drips through the mesh well enough to adhere to the glue beneath. What remains to be added is some type of perch from which she'll be able to find the correct angle at which to expand and dry her wings, but that will need to be something which won't be an attraction for her to hang from while molting.

One thing I've always loved about these T housings is the high quality of the acrylic walls, I'm able to take very sharp photos right through it. And I've moved her from my inverts room up here to my desktop, not only so that I'll have a greater chance of watching the molt when it happens but also so that I'll be able to intervene if possible should she get into any trouble. The earlier maturing molt of my male Idolo would have ended in its death had I not happened to be there right then, it had chosen a spot near enough to the bottom that it would have hit ground before completely exiting its exuvia and I had to reach into the enclosure and lift the branch by a couple of inches, holding it there throughout the second half of the molt.

Any suggestions or comments are most welcome!


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## dmina (Jan 9, 2015)

Well Papilio I am no expert... we are both in the same boat with our idolo's... but I think it is a wonderful en-closer...


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## PIaf94 (Jan 9, 2015)

How old are theses pics? And she's been in pre-sub for 3 months now? I'm in the same boat aswell and I just want to take some notes. Mys girls been in sub for about 2 months


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## papilio_ (Jan 9, 2015)

I just took those last night. Precarious says that Idolo females take forever to mature ... which is why it's rarely if ever possible to pair siblings, the males just don't last long enough. With experience, I'd guess it may be possible to slow down the male and power-feed the female to up the chances. Maybe.

I keep her enclosure at about 90F and 50-60% humidity, feeding about 10-15 BB flies per week. The sibling male matured on Nov. 14.

BTW she's sub-adult, not pre-sub. Sorry if I may have mis-stated this earlier. I'm still such a mantis noob!

The extraordinary male ... RIP


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## CosbyArt (Jan 10, 2015)

Very nice enclosure that will allow for some stunning photos to be taken through it too. If mayonnaise or cheeseballs start to get packed and sold in those I'll be all set.






Looks like you should have solved the molt problem with such a setup - best of luck.

As always amazing photos Papilio! It continues to shock me how much "hair" is found on insects.


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## papilio_ (Jan 10, 2015)

dmina said:


> Well Papilio I am no expert... we are both in the same boat with our idolo's... but I think it is a wonderful en-closer...


My thanks as always dmina! It was quite simple to construct and will, I hope, leave me with a beautiful and properly formed adult.



CosbyArt said:


> Very nice enclosure that will allow for some stunning photos to be taken through it too. If mayonnaise or cheeseballs start to get packed and sold in those I'll be all set.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cheeseball version will be next!  

I hope that you're right and that this does the trick. Precarious shared with me these early posts which makes the likelihood of a successful molt seem a dire prospect to be sure! I would so love to pair her when ready and get my own Idolo ooth.  

Tererrium with lots of twigs

Idolomantis diabolica

Here's one of my favorite pics of the Idolo at L3. I'd brought it to our MinnVerts meet last June 7, it fascinated everyone and was the hit of the party!


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

Hi, I was wondering what exactly is the material that you have used for her to molt to adulthood successfully in? I have 2 males and one female and the female is going to be sub adult soon and I would like to know the name of the white material. Thanks!

-Matt


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

MantisMatt14 said:


> Hi, I was wondering what exactly is the material that you have used for her to molt to adulthood successfully in? I have 2 males and one female and the female is going to be sub adult soon and I would like to know the name of the white material. Thanks!
> 
> -Matt


Hey Matt,

It's a foam-covered mesh sold as shelf-liner at Walmart.

I was encouraged by the ease with which she could get a grip on the surface, however someone later made a comment that in preparing for a molt Idolos wrap their tarsal claws in a more secure way around the twig ... I don't know if this is true, but it caused me to wimp out and add some vine twigs (excellent gripping material I've found) on top of the foam to give her another option. Then another modification, I angled the sticks about 30 degrees instead of having them flat against the ceiling, so this took away the option for her to use the foam.

When the molt occurred she settled in a position perpendicular to the slant of the twigs, so she didn't take advantage of the diagonal placement and I could just as well have left them in the earlier orientation.

I suspect that all would have gone just as well with only the foam as I started with ... unfortunately I don't have more Idolos to allow me to experiment and discover for sure what works and what doesn't, but in any case all went well and it was a great relief when she molt successfully.


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

Awesome! Thanks as always! I will invest in that this weekend. Is it just the moss that kept the humidity up? When my female molts to sub adult will she take over a month till she molts to adult? I have the heat up but the humidity is not that high right now. Is it crucial to be over 40% humidity?

-Matt


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

My girl was sub for nearly four months! :blink: 

The moss is really just for aesthetics, it's covering a pad of humidity foam which sits in a tupperware tub and is kept as wet as I can keep it. I had been using a heat lamp to raise the temps to about 95F as was suggested in a well-regarded caresheet. But Precarious told me that these high temps aren't necessary for the species and only serve to raise their metabolism and dry them out. And I figure that a lower metabolism should extend their lifespan somewhat. With the enclosure at my room temp of about 80-85F (the apartment building keeps it super hot in here and I have no thermostat), the humidity is typically over 70%. Humidity is quite important, and is very much so at molting time. The relatively lower temps help keep the humidity up.


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

Ah very interesting! I will keep that humidity in mind. Lets hope and pray that my female does not stay for sub adult for that period of time. I am hoping to breeding these and I hope my pre sub female molts to sub soon since the males are already sub! Wish me luck! Pictures will be up soon.

-Matt

Hahaha I just realized how similar out profile pics are!


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

Ha! I see what you mean, nice!  

With Idolos, the males mature so much sooner than the females that it's rarely possible to mate siblings, unfortunately. My male matured around Thanksgiving.

But indeed, good luck to us both!!


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

Yes. I may need a male within the coming months if my males mature too early. I really hope the female molts to sub soon. She is super fat and really huge! This species is so stunning and by far my favorite to keep. The temp is probably around 85F right now and the humidity I need to get up to at least 55% its probably around 40% right now. I hope they all successfully molt to adult when that time comes. Can you PM me your email so we can discuss cages for Idolos and photography?

All the best, Matthew


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

She already had all of this color at just three days!


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

Wow! Nice man love those shots!!


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

Thanks a lot!  

She makes a great model.


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

She's so pretty! One of my favs to shoot too because of their intricacy and how they love standing still!


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## dmina (Feb 3, 2015)

I am so confused... heat up?... heat down?... humidity?... and I know I don't have the right stuff for them to hold on to... They are in an enclosure full of fake flowers..in which they have molted fine in the last molts... now I am afraid... I don't have the right stuff... I have no vines in there?.... I know the Idolos have really bad feet... but so far they have done good... but now??? ... I am afraid.. Do I switch out my containers they are in?


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

In my experience the difficulties don't arrive until they get older and heavier, as subs and especially adults it is all too common for their tiny feet to lose their hold under the massive body weight while molting, they fall and die. But both of mine molted to maturity with few problems, so I think that there may be too much emphasis put on how often they fail to make it.

I know it's confusing, especially regarding their maturing molts. The tricky thing is that as adults they need to be able to find a perch after they drop from their old skin from which they can hang at the appropriate angle, about 45 degrees, so that the inflating wings are pulled straight down by gravity, this helps them form properly. But the trick is that, by adding perches lower down which they can reach while hanging upside-down, at the same time you don't want these perches to be locations they'll select to molt from, as Idolos seem to like to select lower perches for the added protection they offer, and sometimes (this nearly happened with my male) they're so low in the enclosure that the new, soft body hits ground.

Neither did I have the slightest trouble raising them from L2 to about L6, I didn't do anything special for them. But when they near maturity they really do get big, which is cool but also complicates things.


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

dmina said:


> I am so confused... heat up?... heat down?... humidity?... and I know I don't have the right stuff for them to hold on to... They are in an enclosure full of fake flowers..in which they have molted fine in the last molts... now I am afraid... I don't have the right stuff... I have no vines in there?.... I know the Idolos have really bad feet... but so far they have done good... but now??? ... I am afraid.. Do I switch out my containers they are in?


If they are in deli cups after L4 I would definitely consider getting them into some kind of enclosure where they have many molting options and are not too crowded. Either netting or cage is fine. Or netting in the cage for better molting success.


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

MantisMatt14 said:


> If they are in deli cups after L4 I would definitely consider getting them into some kind of enclosure where they have many molting options and are not too crowded. Either netting or cage is fine. Or netting in the cage for better molting success.


You may want to take a look through these links. Early on in keeping Idolos, netting and wire screening were found to be unfavorable choices. Neither provides the kind of grip which they require while molting, and it was found to be nearly impossible to keep up the humidity in anything other than a mostly solid enclosure.

Terrarium with lots of twigs

A new Idolo enclosure

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=18234


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## dmina (Feb 3, 2015)

Oh man Papilio... I was so confident before... That I had set them up perfectly, because I have not had a problem yet... Mine are L6ish.. and now I am worried...


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## dmina (Feb 3, 2015)

ok... this is what I have my guys in:





and this is another





and my third





I think I need to add Grape vines?


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## dmina (Feb 3, 2015)

Just saw the links you sent... definitely need more sticks... damn...


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

dmina said:


> Oh man Papilio... I was so confident before... That I had set them up perfectly, because I have not had a problem yet... Mine are L6ish.. and now I am worried...


I know, it was the same with me ... as I mentioned all went well as they grew. But when my male barely succeeded in his maturing molt because I hadn't properly prepared his enclosure, I began my research. The difficulties which come later on are, I guess, the reason that I got so many congratulations when I posted my matured female, and it took me by surprise. That last molt is a tough one for them, sadly, and it's hard to imagine how they've avoided extinction in the wild, as fragile as they are.


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

dmina, I had my Idolos in hex enclosures exactly like that. Unfortunately they just don't provide room for these massive insects as they reach adulthood. If you scroll up to the photo of my female hanging from her exuvia, that soft body was nearly seven inches long!


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

Oh my God these posts are scaring meeeee!!!!!!! I have the right conditions but I really hope my female molts to adulthood successfully! And I should really make a thread for all the USA Idolo owners to come together and talk. Now im thinking the males arent going to be ready in time so I need options on where to get males if any are available when my female matures.

Like Michael said, and I would stress too. Idolos arent good for hex enclosures. They are just such large insects that they need as much space, branches, and molting places as possible! It is crucial in raising Idolos!. Good luck Dmina!



dmina said:


> ok... this is what I have my guys in:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

Matt, if your males are well behind your female, you may be in good shape! The males remain sub for only a couple of months at most. If my experience is typical, the female took four months, and then needs another month before she's ready to mate.


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

Here's my enclosure for the sub males and Pre sub female. Will be renovating it this weekend!


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

Here's my enclosure for the sub males and Pre sub female. Will be renovating it this weekend!


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

Actually my males are ahead of my female which is why I am worried!


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## dmina (Feb 3, 2015)

OK... so the hexes don't work.... What do I get... I have not been able to find net cages... what are the long ones you all are using?

Like I say 2 have just molted L6 .. the other is L6 but now has stopped eating...so very worried.. It is funny how all of our Idolo's are molting close to the same time...


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

MantisMatt14 said:


> Actually my males are ahead of my female which is why I am worried!


Ah, sorry, I misunderstood. That's how mine went too.


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## dmina (Feb 3, 2015)

I mean I see what I get... but what are they called?


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

dmina said:


> OK... so the hexes don't work.... What do I get... I have not been able to find net cages... what are the long ones you all are using?
> 
> Like I say 2 have just molted L6 .. the other is L6 but now has stopped eating...so very worried.. It is funny how all of our Idolo's are molting close to the same time...


These would be my suggestion. Not exactly cheap but not terribly expensive either. The tops are screen, so they should be at least partially covered to keep humidity in. And here's a good thermometer/humidity guage. I know it's a larger investment than you may wish to make, but these sorts of things really are required for this difficult species.

It was funny, on the Facebook Mantis Keepers group there were four of us having our females mature at almost exactly the same time! We kept updating each other via posts on our mantids' progress.


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

Did all four of you have success? I hope my males really slow down or my female speeds up.

-Matt


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

It's also very funny that 2 other people that I know on instagram have them molting at around the exact same time so I know when their idolos are getting ready to molt I know mine are going to do so as well. We keep eachother updated and it is quite funny how it all plays out!


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

MantisMatt14 said:


> Did all four of you have success? I hope my males really slow down or my female speeds up.
> 
> -Matt


All of them survived the molt, though one didn't find a proper angle from which to inflate its wings and they dried looking pretty messed up.

It's generally considered impossible to breed sibling Idolos. I too tried slowing down the male and speeding up the female with power-feeding. Didn't help.


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## dmina (Feb 3, 2015)

Ok.. if the snow stops... I will be shopping tomorrow... And I thought I was already set up.. good foot holds for these guys... plenty of space... the best made plans... huh! go figure


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

papilio_ said:


> All of them survived the molt, though one didn't find a proper angle from which to inflate its wings and they dried looking pretty messed up.
> 
> It's generally considered impossible to breed sibling Idolos. I too tried slowing down the male and speeding up the female with power-feeding. Didn't help.


That's what I thought. I'm definitely going to make a Idolo owners of the US post and see if it catches on. We really need to keep this species in the hobby and we don't want to let down Yen since he started up the US population. I really hope my female at least molts into an adult perfectly.

if she dies that I'll be the happiest guy alive!


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

dmina said:


> Ok.. if the snow stops... I will be shopping tomorrow... And I thought I was already set up.. good foot holds for these guys... plenty of space... the best made plans... huh! go figure


I understand! Besides being a High school student this snow has been really slowing me down. Almost lost all three of my Idolos just for being out in the cold for not even 5 minutes! I shoudbt have been transporting them anyway.

I need to go shopping this weekend cause school and snows gets in the way other wise. Best of luck to you!


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

dmina said:


> Ok.. if the snow stops... I will be shopping tomorrow... And I thought I was already set up.. good foot holds for these guys... plenty of space... the best made plans... huh! go figure


Well after it all, when you at last have your healthy mature Idolos you'll know that you've done something you can be really proud of!


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

Michael whats your best method at keeping flies alive? I fridge the pupaes and they are good for about a month. I take out up to 100 a week to hatch and they last me for about 15 days. I was wondering what you have done?


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

MantisMatt14 said:


> Michael whats your best method at keeping flies alive? I fridge the pupaes and they are good for about a month. I take out up to 100 a week to hatch and they last me for about 15 days. I was wondering what you have done?


Same here ... if I only have to buy new pupae once a month I figure I'm doing well.


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

papilio_ said:


> Same here ... if I only have to buy new pupae once a month I figure I'm doing well.


Yeah I usually get the 500 pack and Use most of it. they really last a while on honey in the fridge. I have had adults last over 2 weeks and still flying! So I need to get the roof lining. Is that what it is called?


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

MantisMatt14 said:


> Yeah I usually get the 500 pack and Use most of it. they really last a while on honey in the fridge. I have had adults last over 2 weeks and still flying! So I need to get the roof lining. Is that what it is called?


It's shelf-liner, comes in a roll.


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

papilio_ said:


> It's shelf-liner, comes in a roll.


Awesome! I will get it by sunday!


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## dmina (Feb 3, 2015)

papilio_ said:


> Well after it all, when you at last have your healthy mature Idolos you'll know that you've done something you can be really proud of!


It's the best feeling! Right?


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## dmina (Feb 3, 2015)

Roof lining? I think it is shelving paper? there are a lot of different kinds??? Did I miss a link?


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

dmina said:


> Roof lining? I think it is shelving paper? there are a lot of different kinds??? Did I miss a link?


Shelf lining I believe. post pics of the enclosure when it is all set up!


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

dmina said:


> Roof lining? I think it is shelving paper? there are a lot of different kinds??? Did I miss a link?


Shelf lining, looks like this,







dmina said:


> It's the best feeling! Right?


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

Awesome! They can really grip that that well? Looks kinda weird texture! Also how did you get a light to her above the acrylic tank?


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

MantisMatt14 said:


> Awesome! They can really grip that that well? Looks kinda weird texture! Also how did you get a light to her above the acrylic tank?


They grip it VERY well!

The light is my studio strobe.


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

Can you show us a pig of the light and how it is set up?


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

MantisMatt14 said:


> Can you show us a pig of the light and how it is set up?


It's my photography strobe, not the lighting for the enclosure, but here it is ...


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

For some reason I can't see that even after clicking on the picture.


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## papilio_ (Feb 3, 2015)

How about now?


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 3, 2015)

Ah yes! That looks like a very expensive light!


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## papilio_ (Feb 4, 2015)

MantisMatt14 said:


> Ah yes! That looks like a very expensive light!


For a studio strobe it's one of the least expensive, about $500 with the beauty dish diffuser.


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## MantisMatt14 (Feb 4, 2015)

Awesome!



papilio_ said:


> For a studio strobe it's one of the least expensive, about $500 with the beauty dish diffuser.


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## Danny. (Feb 4, 2015)

Congrats Papilio, now find a male!


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## papilio_ (Feb 4, 2015)

Danny. said:


> Congrats Papilio, now find a male!


Thanks Danny!

I'd like to, not sure how likely it is though.

Great pic!


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## Danny. (Feb 4, 2015)

papilio_ said:


> Thanks Danny!
> 
> I'd like to, not sure how likely it is though.
> 
> Great pic!


 Someone here has one. Work something out.


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## dmina (Feb 5, 2015)

OK... just finished my art project... I forgot I had this plastic enclosure.. so I decided to practice on it.. So if you could take a look and give me any suggestions...













Also I was wondering... I have had my Idolo's separated, but have noticed other people have them housed together... Would I be able to house them together now?

Could you please help me out with something else??? all three of mine look the same to me... are they all females?

Idolo 1:





Idolo 2:





Idolo 3:





Thanks in advance for all your help...


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## Danny. (Feb 5, 2015)

dmina said:


> OK... just finished my art project... I forgot I had this plastic enclosure.. so I decided to practice on it.. So if you could take a look and give me any suggestions...
> 
> http://s16.photobucket.com/user/dmina/media/Mantid%20Housing/IMG_5108.jpg.html]
> 
> Thanks in advance for all your help...


 You will need a different enclosure for the final molt.


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## papilio_ (Feb 5, 2015)

dmina, as far as I can see, and I'm just a beginner, but yes they all look female to me.

I know that a lot of people keep Idolos together, and cannibalism never happens until it does.  It's always a possibility, and as valuable as these are I wouldn't risk it. Usually the largest danger comes when they are not all of the same instar and the big guys eat the little guys. They've also been known to attack another housemate while it's molting.

Is that second photo the ceiling? If so, then the general idea looks about right. But as Danny said you'll need something quite a bit taller for the maturing molt. My enclosure is 12" vertically, and with a 2" plastic tub at the bottom filled with wet foam to keep humidity up plus the sticks coming down from the ceiling, there's only about 9" of vertical space. Look again at the photo of her hanging from her exuia in my enclosure, first page of this post ... not a lot of room to spare, her soft, bloated body was enormous!!

Anyway, 1000% better than what you had before!  Well done!


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## dmina (Feb 5, 2015)

OK.. So I got the idea down.. this is the largest of the plastic enclosures... it is 10" high

Yes the second pic is the ceiling...

So will go out and get something taller... I mean I need to get 3 things taller... Glad I am on the right track

Thank you both...


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