# Critical damage from crickets?



## BriGuy (Nov 30, 2012)

I apologize ahead of time for the gross pictures, but they stand as clear evidence of what I believe could have been serious injuries inflicted upon my first mantis raised from ooth to adult. The injuries looked very bad and she was bleeding out and was very lethargic. I made the humane but difficult decision to put her down.  

She was about a 6 month old Chinese mantis that had never had any other health issues. I had her in a big cage with probably half a dozen medium sized crickets which I have supplied a few of those food/water orange cubes. Also, there were also a few blue bottle flies which had previously fed on powder fly food. Up until about a week ago she had no external issues other than a partially damaged antenna. Everything you see in the pictures is recent damage (the nibbled wings, the abdomen punctures, and the missing left ovipositor).

Cage: http://i.imgur.com/PyxIM.jpg

Damage (right): http://i.imgur.com/ykrWj.jpg

Damage (left): http://i.imgur.com/du71I.jpg

What (if anything) did I do wrong here? My thinking is that I overloaded her cage with too many crickets that attacked her when she was too full to be interested in eating them. But I'm also not sure how well mantids do when they get this old. Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

RIP Zorak


----------



## Mime454 (Nov 30, 2012)

I would have given the crickets something to eat if you _have _to keep so many in there at one time. Don't want them to be driven by hunger to gang up and attack.

Nice looking enclosure by the way!


----------



## hierodula (Nov 30, 2012)

Poor thing  Crickets are opportunistic, so only at max two at a time.


----------



## Malakyoma (Nov 30, 2012)

I agree with mime. I keep a half dozen crix in with my presub Popa spurca, and I keep a small tray of food in there for them. No problems so far. Starvation can drive animals to do crazy things they wouldn't normally try.


----------



## BriGuy (Nov 30, 2012)

Mime454 said:


> I would have given the crickets something to eat if you _have _to keep so many in there at one time. Don't want them to be driven by hunger to gang up and attack.


The picture wasn't quite up to date for when I put the crickets in. Anytime that I put them in I always threw in a bunch of those food/water orange cubes and spread them out all over the tank (a few on the bottom, and a few more on the branches). I knew crickets were potentially dangerous, but I put in a few more than usual because I was on a vacation for 4 days and wanted her to be able to find enough food while I was away.



hierodula said:


> Poor thing  Crickets are opportunistic, so only at max two at a time.


Damn. You live and you learn I guess...


----------



## Rick (Nov 30, 2012)

I've never had a cricket injure a mantis. I agree too many were put in though.


----------



## Digger (Nov 30, 2012)

Sorry to see the food found her instead, Bri. Like Rick, I've never had a crix prob with my female Chinese mantis. But I never, ever kept more than 2 crix in the terrarium. And made certain the crix had plenty of fresh food in their prison. Horrible way to learn a lesson. Crix are great feeders but they're little monsters. Stupid and (as hier noted) very opportunistic. Next vacation, take your mantis with you :boat:


----------



## sally (Nov 30, 2012)

poor mantis... i only put in 2 or so at a time with apple pieces. when sally got old i just scooted the crickets over to her and she would grab them np.


----------



## Domanating (Nov 30, 2012)

6 crickets are no match for a mantis of that size. If one tried to bite her, she would turn around and strike or grab and squeeze the cricket, killing it just like that. So considering that It won't be long until Winter settles, mantids start to die out around this time. I think that your Chinese finally collapsed due to old age, which made her vulnerable to the crickets. My guess is, crickets or no crickets she would have died anyway


----------



## gripen (Nov 30, 2012)

She may have fallen and punchered her abdomen then the crickets ganged up on her. In the future feed mantids do not need that much food. Especially an older mantis it can really cut down on there quality of life and even kill them.


----------



## RocknessMonster (Dec 1, 2012)

Urgh crickets are little bastards, I've had some experiences of them eating one another, wouldn't be surprised that they'd try to go for a mantis that's weak.

Poor baby :/ looks painful.

Maybe next time leave some flies in there (later down the road I mean) for your mantis when you're out and about. I'd do that when I had to work away from home for a couple days. She still had flies when I came home!

Sorry for your little ladies loss my dear


----------



## Sticky (Dec 1, 2012)

This is why I have started a small roach colony. I hate crickets!!!! They have hurt some of my mantids too.

One girl was even attacked by a superworm! I had shavings on her floor as she was elderly. She was on her back and I found her chewed. I did not have crickets at that time. I had given her a worm but I guess she dropped it. It got its revenge.


----------



## MantidLord (Dec 6, 2012)

I agree with what a couple of people said. I healthy chinese wouldn't be taken by 6 crickets like that. She was either dying before or some how got wounded and the crix took advantage of her. Nevertheless, too many crickets in the enclosure. And if you were gone for 4 days, don't worry about her starving, she would've been find with no food for that long or (if you were really worried) put one cricket in there with her. No way she would've starved to death or got even close to starving in that time frame.


----------



## BriGuy (Dec 6, 2012)

Thank you all very much for your responses. I have learned a lot through raising my first mantis and unfortunately failure is normally a big part of the learning process. We had a great time observing her grow up from ooth to adult but were unfortunately not able to find her a mating partner to keep the cycle going for another generation. I'm planning on taking a short break from raising mantids and will probably try again next year with a more exotic species.

By the way, after her passing I pinned her. When she is done drying out I plan to display her alongside her (mostly) feral sister who I kept alongside her for a few weeks until she got a nasty eye infection and died who I also pinned. They are markedly different in size and body coloration and should prove to be an interesting study on the effects of wild vs captive living. Keep an eye out for that post sometime in Jan.


----------



## Mr. Hyde (Dec 6, 2012)

Never had any luck with those orange cubes. Crickets just didn't seem interested. We ended up making a powdered mixture of their food and sprinkled it all over the tank every couple days. a piece of lettuce in the tank as well... once she started dying and slowing down, they ganged up on her, but until then, they never tried.... i just like to keep them fed is the point I'm trying to make I guess


----------



## ShieldMantid1997 (Dec 17, 2012)

I think the problem was the crickets, or well more specifically the amount.

She lived a happy life i am sure, she had quite the awesome enclosure!


----------



## TheOtherSpecies (Feb 3, 2013)

Crickets are the devil's creation!


----------



## ScienceGirl (Feb 3, 2013)

Beautiful enclosure - I love the "treehouse" setup!

Crickets can be quite the trouble sometimes. Next time you're on vacation, _*flies*_ would be the way to go. Pet stores should have a caution sign with the crickets: "Feed under SUPERVISION only - At your own risk!"

i've heard horror stories about mealworms, too. Basically anything with chomping jaws designed to grind up food is a no-go for feeding while on vacation.

Very sorry about your little girl mantis.


----------



## Domanating (Feb 3, 2013)

ScienceGirl said:


> Beautiful enclosure - I love the "treehouse" setup!
> 
> Crickets can be quite the trouble sometimes. Next time you're on vacation, _*flies*_ would be the way to go. Pet stores should have a caution sign with the crickets: "Feed under SUPERVISION only - At your own risk!"
> 
> ...


Well, I occasionally give mine bugs that can cut a mantis in half with one bite. They know how to deal with different insect species. They know if they should engage, defend or flee. If a mantis decides it's going to hunt a bug down, it will and will know how handle them.

In this particular case the mantis was just too old, too weak. She collapsed and fell. With no defensive response from her, the crickets took advantage of that. They wouldn't face a big healthy mantis.

A somewhat similar thing happened to me in my early mantis days. I had a subadult female that was about to molt. Inside the container was also a small lizard only half her size for her to eat. I figured it wouldn't be dangerous, the mantis is way bigger and stronger. However I underestimated the intelligence of the lizard. When the female started molting I found the lizard chewing her soft thorax. She died obviously.

The 2 stories are different but they are essentially the same in one point. Prey know when a predator is vulnerable and they can turn the tables in their favor.


----------

