# Getting my first oothecae



## packer43064 (Jan 9, 2011)

First of all I want to say this is an incredible site. Lots of information on here. I've been reading up on here the past few days and it has helped alot with information I've been looking for. With that being said I purchased two chinese oothecae recently and they should be here this week. I'm a little ahead of the game because I already have over 240 32 oz. FF containers (vented lids) and 4 different kinds of FF's I'm currently culturing. Hopefully 6 soon enough. I 'm getting dart frogs so I wanted to start early culturing and everything. I saw someone selling these oothecaes on DB (Dendroboard) and had to have one. Me and the GF have always wanted one, I didn't even knew people kept these really and there was such a diverse amount of mantises to even purchase until I found this site.I was amazed to say the least.

After researching quite a bit I just want to make sure I have everything in order for my new critters. Some questions.

1. My plan since I bought two ooths is to use the FF containers and just glue them to the top. One in each until they hatch. I would like to keep 50 per ooth. So were talking about 100 in total. Most would go to local gardens (parents, mine, etc) and I want to keep some females and males to breed so I don't have to buy more ooths. I understand they cannabalize each other after about L2 if kept together or even earlier. I would like to use this as an advantage. Place 5-10 (just depends on how many each ooth gives out) per FF container and let them cannabalize until one per container then proceed with normal feedings. I'll have to ramp up the FF cultures a bit with all the hungry mouths, but I love making the cultures. It's fun. I also have mealworms breeding and can purchase roaches and etc for larger mantis feedings. They can stay in here until L4 right? Sound like a plan or am I crazy?

2. Do the ooths need warmth? I've heard room temp, then again I've heard to leave them on tv's and cable boxes or something to that extent to give the extra warmth.

3. Would an 12x12x18 Exo-Terra be too big for one adult female?

4. L1 is before the first molt right? As in when they hatch out of the ooth they will be L1? So L4 for example would be after the 3rd molt, but before the 4th molt? I want to make sure I'm getting the right before I totally get things all messed up.

Thanks for any help given. Since you all are helping me out I want to help you out. I made a guide to making FF cultures on a separate site with pics of course.  I don't know the rules about posting links to other sites, but would love to post it here to help anyone out. I love to answer questions about these FF cultures or breeding mealworms....it's the least I can do for whoever made this awesome website!


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## PeterF (Jan 9, 2011)

2 3 and 4 are fairly easy.

2: Warmth is good (but not too much). T.v. is better than nothing. Warmer will mean faster hatching. Some people use warm room, or boxes with heat pads or lights. Or they just use the lights. Any attempt to make them warmer must be checked to make sure it's not getting too hot.

3: Not too big. But might be big enough that she may have some trouble finding her food. Especially in a situation where she hangs out on the top and crickets or roaches run around the bottom, But in general it's fine.

4: That is correct. Some people will argue that they should start out at L2 because they "molt" when they hatch. But don't worry about that. Your understanding is the accepted norm.


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## PeterF (Jan 10, 2011)

1: Do you mean hatching them in the same type of container as you use for fruit flies? No problem. Do some research to make sure the glue is ok.

Do you mean in a container that is an active fruit fly colony? I have never heard of experiences with that. I would be doubtful, but someone else may know better.

Breeding isn't especially hard. On the other hand, chinese oothes are cheap. I'd say if you're keen the breeding experience is worth it, but do balance the thought about how much work it is compared to the 5 - 10 bucks for an ooth every year.

Your idea of splitting them into smaller groups would work fine. With two major points:

a: there is a chance one tub might die out all together. No big deal if you take the opportunity to separate a living tub so you still have as many active tubs as you think you want.

b: The nymphs are fast, jumping, and surprisingly determined. The prospect of separating them makes me balk a little. It gets done, but do not underestimate the challenge of tracking all the escapees as they go in different directions. Plan ahead, prepare your work space.

And, as it is a naturalized species, if the escapees do make it to the wild, no big deal.

By L4 they might be a tad big for the FF cups. Maybe not. Whatever your long term plan for housing is should be ready to implement by that time for you to decide what you are dealing with.

You may need a mid range food solution as well. Once they outgrow fruit flies, they can't really live on cannibalism for long. You can buy suitable sized crickets, or house flies.

I breed crickets so that I will have crickets of the size I need when I need them. If you consider this strategy, now is the time to get started.


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## packer43064 (Jan 10, 2011)

Peter J F said:


> 2 3 and 4 are fairly easy.2: Warmth is good (but not too much). T.v. is better than nothing. Warmer will mean faster hatching. Some people use warm room, or boxes with heat pads or lights. Or they just use the lights. Any attempt to make them warmer must be checked to make sure it's not getting too hot.3: Not too big. But might be big enough that she may have some trouble finding her food. Especially in a situation where she hangs out on the top and crickets or roaches run around the bottom, But in general it's fine.4: That is correct. Some people will argue that they should start out at L2 because they "molt" when they hatch. But don't worry about that. Your understanding is the accepted norm.


Thanks. I keep my mealworm tubs on flexwatt and it runs around 80ish. I could keep them close to that for extra warmth.



Peter J F said:


> 1: Do you mean hatching them in the same type of container as you use for fruit flies? No problem. Do some research to make sure the glue is ok.Do you mean in a container that is an active fruit fly colony? I have never heard of experiences with that. I would be doubtful, but someone else may know better.Breeding isn't especially hard. On the other hand, chinese oothes are cheap. I'd say if you're keen the breeding experience is worth it, but do balance the thought about how much work it is compared to the 5 - 10 bucks for an ooth every year.Your idea of splitting them into smaller groups would work fine. With two major points:a: there is a chance one tub might die out all together. No big deal if you take the opportunity to separate a living tub so you still have as many active tubs as you think you want.b: The nymphs are fast, jumping, and surprisingly determined. The prospect of separating them makes me balk a little. It gets done, but do not underestimate the challenge of tracking all the escapees as they go in different directions. Plan ahead, prepare your work space.And, as it is a naturalized species, if the escapees do make it to the wild, no big deal.By L4 they might be a tad big for the FF cups. Maybe not. Whatever your long term plan for housing is should be ready to implement by that time for you to decide what you are dealing with.You may need a mid range food solution as well. Once they outgrow fruit flies, they can't really live on cannibalism for long. You can buy suitable sized crickets, or house flies.I breed crickets so that I will have crickets of the size I need when I need them. If you consider this strategy, now is the time to get started.


No Fruit Fly colony in the container. Just empty ones. I've bred crickets before, good idea. Some containers just straight up dying would be fine with how many I want to have all in all. Can they climb plastic? Throwing them all into a larger plastic tub then scooping and coaxing them into the FF cups would be ideal. Thanks alot. Good info.


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## PeterF (Jan 10, 2011)

Ultimately it depends on the plastic. I have seen them (mantid nymphs) have easier or harder times with different plastics. I have not seen a plastic they are completely unable to climb.

Perhaps doing the top of the tub in a large border of Fluon, or Bugtape, or Vaseline would be suitable?


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 10, 2011)

I wouldnt use any of that for the nymphs, they will die.


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## dgerndt (Jan 10, 2011)

It seems as though everyone else has answered your questions, so let me instead welcome you!

Welcome! Congrats on purchasing your first ooths! Chinese are a wonderful species and they hold a special place in my heart.  I'm sure they'll work their way into yours, as well.


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## GreenOasis (Jan 10, 2011)

Wow...you have your work ahead of you, man!  

My first "large" ooth hatched out here recently and it was an absolute nightmare herding 50 tiny, jumping little bundles of energy into their own deli cups! Then...there were just TOO many cups around (and the ooth was STILL hatching) and I had to go back &amp; put them 3 to a cup! Try keeping track of even just two of those quick little suckers while herding the last one in before the others jump out! :blink: (Then, imagine trying to get tiny jumping fruit flies into there too!) My main tip is for you to have an extra pair of hands handy! If hubby hadn't been around to help me herd them, I'd have had nymphs climbing the walls before I could scream for help!  

Chinese are a large species, so, as has been pointed out, they will quickly outgrow all your fruit flies. Might I suggest learning to LOVE culturing house/blue bottle flies as well?  

Room temp for the ooth is fine. I put my Chinese ooth up on top of my fridge because that tends to be one of the warmer spots in a house.

Honestly, don't stress too much over not knowing a whole lot yet. It's really easy to pick up...just be sure to check out the forum &amp; read a little every day...you'll be an "old hand" in no time! :smarty: 

Good luck &amp; welcome to the forum! I'm sure you'll find no problem in re-homing any nymphs that you don't want or need! :wub:


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## packer43064 (Jan 12, 2011)

Peter J F said:


> Ultimately it depends on the plastic. I have seen them (mantid nymphs) have easier or harder times with different plastics. I have not seen a plastic they are completely unable to climb.Perhaps doing the top of the tub in a large border of Fluon, or Bugtape, or Vaseline would be suitable?


I got vaseline. I'll get the GF to help though. It should be fun. Thanks.



Deby said:


> It seems as though everyone else has answered your questions, so let me instead welcome you!Welcome! Congrats on purchasing your first ooths! Chinese are a wonderful species and they hold a special place in my heart.  I'm sure they'll work their way into yours, as well.


Thanks. I can't wait for them to hatch!



GreenOasis said:


> Wow...you have your work ahead of you, man!  My first "large" ooth hatched out here recently and it was an absolute nightmare herding 50 tiny, jumping little bundles of energy into their own deli cups! Then...there were just TOO many cups around (and the ooth was STILL hatching) and I had to go back &amp; put them 3 to a cup! Try keeping track of even just two of those quick little suckers while herding the last one in before the others jump out! :blink: (Then, imagine trying to get tiny jumping fruit flies into there too!) My main tip is for you to have an extra pair of hands handy! If hubby hadn't been around to help me herd them, I'd have had nymphs climbing the walls before I could scream for help! Chinese are a large species, so, as has been pointed out, they will quickly outgrow all your fruit flies. Might I suggest learning to LOVE culturing house/blue bottle flies as well? Room temp for the ooth is fine. I put my Chinese ooth up on top of my fridge because that tends to be one of the warmer spots in a house. Honestly, don't stress too much over not knowing a whole lot yet. It's really easy to pick up...just be sure to check out the forum &amp; read a little every day...you'll be an "old hand" in no time! :smarty: Good luck &amp; welcome to the forum! I'm sure you'll find no problem in re-homing any nymphs that you don't want or need! :wub:


I'll get my GF to help me capture and put them in the FF cups. It should be interesting to say the least. I'm thinking I'm going to have to start breeding some roaches for when they get larger. I've heard of the blue bottle flies, but don't you just feed the larva to the mantises? Thanks alot for all of the information.


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## packer43064 (Jan 12, 2011)

Well I got them in today! Pretty excited.







Question. Did I glue this on correctly?











A guide to making FF cultures I made. My name is packer43064 over there.

Guide to making FF cultures


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 13, 2011)

Yes they are fine on the lids, and no we hatch the flies and feed them, although some do use the larve, nothing wrong with that.


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## GreenOasis (Jan 13, 2011)

Yeah, like Rebecca said, you hatch out the blue bottle larvae into flies for the mantids to eat. Good idea planning ahead with the roaches, though. Hope you've started your roach colony already!  

Edit: Oh, and that looks fine how you've glued it!


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## packer43064 (Jan 14, 2011)

Thanks. I have some Turkistan roaches on the way. Better late than never right? I'll be ready for next time. Also would these be an effective food for when they get bigger? I specifically got these for the fact that they stay smaller which means smaller nymphs too. If anything it'll be a fun project on the side.

Another question. Should feeders be dusted with anything? Extra calcium or anything special.

I've been misting the ooths and the containers walls every few days, this correct or everyday misting the walls of the container and the ooths every few days better?


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 15, 2011)

what u r doing is fine. and they shouldnt need dusting.


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## packer43064 (Jan 19, 2011)

This is killing me! It has been one week today since I got the oothecaes. How long does it usually take. 4-6 weeks right?


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 19, 2011)

haha, patience my boy, patience!


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## Katnapper (Jan 20, 2011)

Jeff Parker said:


> This is killing me! It has been one week today since I got the oothecaes. How long does it usually take. 4-6 weeks right?


LOL!!!  The excitement of waiting for your first ooths to hatch is incredible, and almost agonizing, I know.  Just be prepared with food and housing, check at least once a day... and wait. And don't hold your breath during this time, hehe!! When you least expect it, or have about given up it seems, you'll look in one day and all the waiting will be worth it. As Rebecca said, just try to be patient. Oh, and intense staring at them for long periods of time does nothing to encourage hatching. Don't ask me how I know this.  

And yes... that's the average time frame of many mantis species.


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## dgerndt (Jan 20, 2011)

A watched ooth never hatches! Okay, it does. But a watched nymph never molts! Okay, that's a lie, too. Just be patient! I'm also waiting for an ooth to hatch. It was due today, but no luck!


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 20, 2011)

I find that if you want an ooth to hatch, no amount of lookin will make it happen,  one day u will go in to ck on things and babies will be everywhere!


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## packer43064 (Jan 22, 2011)

Do you think if I found a laser somehow and bore a whole through it with the spoken laser in hand it'll help those poor mantids stuck in there? :blink:  

They get stared at often, nothing happens of course. My GF decided to put one of those sticky labels that you can make with a sticky label printer machine on the FF cups so everyone knows what they are. It says....little ooth ooth on the label. She often jokes around and calls me little ooth ooth, she get's the evil eye across from the couch as I stop typing on mantidforum....about my "little ooth ooth". She wins that battle for now...within time these "little ooths ooths" though will attack her when she least knows it.


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 22, 2011)

haha, nothing like letting a few sit in her hair when she is not looking, they will stay there, and when she goes out, she will have people staring at her and u can then say " who's the little ooth ooth now"! :tt2:


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## packer43064 (Jan 22, 2011)

It's sooo happening. &lt;_&lt; 

What happens if the ooths hatched when I'm on vacation? We'll be gone for a week in a few weeks time. I guess I could always bring them and bring some FF cups. My brother is staying over, but he won't mess with them besides misting. Scaredy cat.


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 22, 2011)

They will die without some water, At least it will weaken them and then they will die, take baby ooth with you papa


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## packer43064 (Feb 13, 2011)

Well they hatched today. A full week after we got back from vacation. Phew! I just put some new moss in and gave the ooths a good soaking last night before they hatched. I'm sure the other one will hatch in a few days.

Now the fun part...separating them! Would it be ideal to wait till Monday to separate or does it not matter. I'm off today, so if it doesn't matter It's happening!


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## dgerndt (Feb 13, 2011)

Congratulations, new daddy!


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## Entomo-logic (Feb 13, 2011)

you could try a little humidity to get the ooth to pop. Sometimes a little mist is all it takes to get the conditions JUUUUUSt right for things to start happening, or you try the sure fire way of getting the ooth to hatch whish is leave the container slightly open (that is a joke) but really it seems to never fail and tracking down 100s of L1s is quite challenging.


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## packer43064 (Feb 13, 2011)

Thanks!

I forgot here's pics.


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## packer43064 (Feb 15, 2011)

Well I separated them last night. There's between 5-7 per cup. Some a few more, some a few less. There 21 FF cups now filled with mantids! I fed them earlier tonight, they all were trying to catch the wingless mels.

How long until they start to cannabalize?


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## packer43064 (Feb 16, 2011)

Well the second ooth hatched. Of course when I have 200 nymphs to take care of now, the second one hatches out. For some reason only 5 hatched out. It's going on 2 days now, and only 5. Makes it easier for me separate, but kind of a bummer.


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## Schloaty (Feb 18, 2011)

Hey Jeff,

Don't toss that second ooth - I had a similar experience with a wild collected ooth that I kept over the winter. It hatched out 3 numphs...sheesh...but every day 2 or 3 more for about 4 or five days. Not really what I hoped for froma chinese ooth, but at least it's easier to keep track of them. And I only have so many aphids in the greenhouse!

now I'm worried about them other two Chinese ooths and my Carolina ooth (e-bay)..whatever am I going to feed everyone?


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## Katnapper (Feb 19, 2011)

I love imagining the part when you take the lid off that deli cup!


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## packer43064 (Feb 25, 2011)

Schloaty said:


> Hey Jeff,
> 
> Don't toss that second ooth - I had a similar experience with a wild collected ooth that I kept over the winter. It hatched out 3 numphs...sheesh...but every day 2 or 3 more for about 4 or five days. Not really what I hoped for froma chinese ooth, but at least it's easier to keep track of them. And I only have so many aphids in the greenhouse!
> 
> now I'm worried about them other two Chinese ooths and my Carolina ooth (e-bay)..whatever am I going to feed everyone?


No more ever hatched out! :blink: 



Katnapper said:


> I love imagining the part when you take the lid off that deli cup!


I did it in another bin, and they were rather still actually. It's far more trickier to open a FF cup with 5 L2 nymphs then it was to open the FF cup after hatching.

Most are still alive. I lost a few to cannabalism which was to be expected. I now have 40+ FF cups of nymphs. Having 5-6 per cup was too much of a hassle to open and feed.


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