# Spiney flower mantis



## Morpheus uk

Since i joined flickr finally i`ll get posting, enjoy  

Heres a couple of pics with one of my oldest nymphs observing the landscape on a lavender stem












"Oooh a fly!"

Hopefully more to follow


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## Way.Of.The.Mantis

Could do with being _slightly_ closer...but actually that background makes the mantids colouring much more of a contrast..  Well done.


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## Asa

> Could do with being _slightly_ closer...but actually that background makes the mantids colouring much more of a contrast..  Well done.


What, have you decided to be a photo critic? Those are great pictures Morpheus.


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## OGIGA

Awesome pictures! I almost thought the lavender is part of the mantis.


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## Morpheus uk

I tried to get in closer but the darn bugger kept leaping on the camera :lol:


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## jmac27

Great pics. This is one of my favorite species.


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## yen_saw

Nice pics! looks like a male on the second pic. One of my favorite species too.


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## Ian

Lovely photos  The Pseudos are so photogenic.


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## Asa

Heh, heh! Photogenic mantids? Somehow doubt it.


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## yen_saw

one pair mated successfully yesterday.


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## athicks

This is one of my favorite species  They are so beautiful!


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## spawn

GOD that was a crazy angle. I had no idea where one mantid started and the other began! Very cool stuff.


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## Morpheus uk

Got a couple more
















Also my dad wanted to point out he took the last one :roll: :lol:


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## OGIGA

Your dad can take pretty nice pictures. :wink: They're all nice pictures.


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## Asa

Beautiful...existique...wonderful...

Love the pics


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## Morpheus uk

Thx all heres some more

I only have 1 left now, the one on the lavender was the first to go











Heres some my dads photos of his, these were incredibly hard to take bacause i had to hold this big leaf back with tweezers while he took the photo plus the mantis was up side down :lol: 






"AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"






"GIMMIE THAT CAMERA!"

These last 2 are mine, the camera was running out of battery so it wouldnt focus, think this is what you get when you cross 2 handed feeding with a threat display, weight lifting!











"Almost there..."


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## Morpheus uk

Thank god my remaining ones shed, and hes got a pink morph!!!!!!!!1

Woohooo!


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## Ben.M

>


Looks like its been painted


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## Asa

I've never seen a mantis lift up two at the same time!


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## Ben.M

_Cilnia humeralis_ do it the most


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## Lee Slikkers

Stunning photos! How large does this species grow?


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## Ben.M

About 1.5 to 2 inches


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## Lee Slikkers

Wow, fairly small then...great camera, I don't have anything with a quality macro setting.


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## yen_saw

Beautiful pics Morpheus, can't wait till my new generation grow up.


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## Jenn

What beautiful colors! great pictures. Thanks for sharing


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## OGIGA

Wonderful!


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## Morpheus uk

Thx all, i hope i can breed these, i have failed with so many phasmid species, and some mantids through ending up with all males or all females :x


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## Morpheus uk

Well breeding was all most out of the queshton with my lone pinkie, so then i got a sub adult pair of Randyardvark!

Heres a couple of the male












"Hmph!"

Actually cant remember if the last one was the female ah well, oh yeah and as some of you may of noticed, new camera 8)


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## Djoul

The first one is a male for sur, the second one, I am not sur because it is difficult to see the abdomen on the picture. But I am sorry, I think that it is a male  

I am not sur but...


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## Ben.M

Both look male to me :?


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## Asa

he said they were both male.


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## Morpheus uk

Well im in a situration with these 2, first adult male yet no females :evil:

But more photos


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## OGIGA

They're pretty awesome-looking. Great pictures and mantises!


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## Morpheus uk

Ty :mrgreen:


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## Morpheus uk

Well dont think these are whlabergiis anymore, oh well, any way some pics of mine, hes been really grouchy latly, sheeding time me thinks


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## asdsdf

Lucky you, the one you just pictured is PW. ( I think) Did you read my topic on fdifference between #9's? Yen posted a great picture of the differences. Check the end of the abdomen, and if you see it isn't a very pointy triangle, then you are in luck. As you may notice,it is much spikier than PO. I know cause I have PO. (Picutred on right.) Try to get a picture of the back, and I can tell you for sure.


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## Morpheus uk

But i got some other #9 mantids and they looked exactly the same except for the shield bit, on mine the spiky bits on the side are pointier and point outward and on the others its rounded off and tapers up a litte


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## asdsdf

If your male is bigger or the same size of a nickel, then it's PW. check to see the pointy end of the abdomen. Here are pics of oneofmy females. Notice the not really spiky spikes, and the pointed abdomen. (Yes, the male has a pointed abdomen too.) Try to get a picture of the back, and I can determinefor you.


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## Morpheus uk

STAY ONLINE A MINUTE WHILE I LOOK FOR A PHOTO


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## Morpheus uk




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## asdsdf

I have no doubt that it' PW. Spikier, and not pointy abdomen. Congrats. :lol:


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## Morpheus uk

Thx asdsdf!

How does it differ from yours then?

My brains against me, when say something like sexing i count 6 then say oh its a female, then my brain thinks, no wait does that segment count?

Argh headacke!


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## asdsdf

NP :lol: 

As you may notice in my pics, especially the first one, the tip of the abdomen is pointy. On the other pics, it's camoflauged, but if you look very closely, you can see the pointy end. There is a black dot on it. Also, your spikes are way bigger than mine, and PO have little spikes. If you go to my topic about diff. between #9's, yen posted up a picture. The male PW is the same size as a female PO, and the Po has smaller spikes, and a pointier abdomen.


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## Rob Byatt

Please note that size cannot be used to speciate.


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## asdsdf

Rob Byatt said:


> Please note that size cannot be used to speciate.


Why? That's one of the things Yen told me, and I have noticed that it is true. it says so on different sites too, like how an adult female PO looks like a male PW except the Po's sides stick out more. http://www.mantisphotos.com/comparingpseudo.htm (I don't agree with the dot pattern though.)


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## Mantida

I love how there are little heart markings on the back of the abdomen of immature P. Ocellatas and P. Wahlbergiis.


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## Morpheus uk

Missed one


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## asdsdf

*Sigh* I guess you could just ask Rob for a second opinion(Thinking that it's behind my back.). BUT I'M RIGHT!!!! Ask Yen. He taught me all I know. (almost) :lol:


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## Rob Byatt

asdsdf said:


> *Sigh* I guess you could just ask Rob for a second opinion(Thinking that it's behind my back.). BUT I'M RIGHT!!!! Ask Yen. He taught me all I know. (almost) :lol:


What's wrong with Morpheus asking me for my opinion ?


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## asdsdf

Rob Byatt said:


> What's wrong with Morpheus asking me for my opinion ?


Nothing.

Edit: Okay, I couldn't write much cause it was 7 and time for school. Anyways, what I meant was that Morpheus thought he could write anything he wanted about me. You didn't really have anything to do with this.  Or at least nothing against you.


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## Kruszakus

Hey!

Guys, tell me - what is the right level of humidity for this species?


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## Morpheus uk

Dont know baout level but they like it dry contrary to what a lot of people say, they come all the way from sunny Tanzania, i think or sumwhere in africa


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## asdsdf

Kruszakus said:


> Hey! Guys, tell me - what is the right level of humidity for this species?


My P.Ocellata have practically no humidity. I only spray once a while, when I think they may be thirsty, but they never drink. I guess they get their fluid from the bees that I give them. (Stinger removed humanely to prevent casualties, and then use forceps.)


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## Kruszakus

Thanks guys - you just assured me of what I surmised, when my friend had told me, that her mantids had died after she sprayed some water on them - a little mist killed fifteen out of twenty spineys!


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## Christian

Hi.

First of all: do Sören and Jürg know that you use their photo on other websites?

Second: size does *not* matter. It may be true that _Ps. wahlbergii_ is usually larger than _Ps. ocellata_, but there are also smaller ones comparable to _Ps. ocellata_. What then? Maybe one day there will be a stock out of a population with averagely smaller _wahlbergii_ specimens. How can size be a factor in this case? I have seen small _wahlbergiis_ in collections.

Third: color does *not* matter. Neither the color of the body, nor the one of the target mark. Nor the shape of it. You just forget that both species inhabit large parts of Africa and morphological characters may vary considerably between individuals and populations. Maybe the specimens available at the moment may be distinguishable by your characters, but what about other stocks in the future?

Fourth: the only thing that does matter between these two species, say, the only constant parameter, is the shape of the pronotum (if genitalia are excluded): if the width is almost the length it's _ocellata_, if the width slightly exceeds the length, it's _wahlbergii_. It's as simple as this. There are color differences, too, but as I said above, color cannot be used as a reliable character.

Mates, keep on breeding and just forget the ID stuff... It's hard enough even when you're in the matter, talking about this when you're not doesn't help anyone - the very least yourself.

By the way, _wahlbergii_ inhabits drier habitats than _ocellata_. The latter inhabits humid to semihumid savannas, the first one semihumid to dry savannas. _Ocellata_ occurs from W Africa to Tansania, _wahlbergii _inhabits the E and S parts of Africa.

Regards,

Christian


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## Morpheus uk

Thx for the info, im just gonna keep them and then maybe another time just get a load of nymphs off someone so i dont have to ID the remaining one for a mate, and who uses who`s photos?


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## yen_saw

Gez... i was sick for a few days and this spiny flower issue exploded into such confusion! :blink: and got dragged into this by asdsdf comments. See what you have done Morpheus  

I think asdsdf is a little too excited with his _P. Ocellata _ and misunderstood what i told him as "rule" to apply :lol: . If i misled you in anyway Jasper i'm sorry but they are "generally" true especially compare to _P. Wahlbergii _but not the keys for ID.

Here is a link on what I "observed" on differences between PW and PO last week. I am not an entomology so don't expect any fancy terms as i am only sharing with people what i found (is that wrong?) and make it easier for people to see the differences without going through the Coxae and Tarsus  hey, afterall, we are just some mantis hobbyists having fun rearing mantis and not doing it for a living (are you seriously thinking of it?!).

http://www.usamantis.com/PWvsPO.html

I will put the pics here nevertheless.











I don't know what differences can you see, but it is pretty clear to me IN GENERAL. Anyway, like Christian said, keep on breeding and just forget the ID stuff!

Also, any mantis hobbyist here who read chinese (Calvin i know you could  ), there is a new chinese forum on mantis.

http://mantisclubhk.e.forumable.net/tc/index.php

and also a link for this issue.

http://mantisclubhk.e.forumable.net/tc/vie...;extra=page%3D1

By the way, my _P. ocellata _female just laid an ootheca





Oh by the way, those pics are mine


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## Kruszakus

Sweet pictures Yen! I did not expect them to be this big... for a small species.

Mine are small and black as ashes, but soon...  

They are not as agressive as C. Elongata? I reckon they cannot tackle a 20-25 milimeters cricket?


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## Morpheus uk

Well my one has the same warning pattern asur ocealata, and the shield looks similar but not the same but the spikes look like a whlabergii!

Just what is the pooint of people bringing identicle species to culture, oh and entomoly-GIST lol


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## Morpheus uk

Oh wow, just ckecked on my dads recently matured one and it looks 100% like ur whalbergiis, and he has bright blue eyes! its amazing, ive omly ever seen them go purple b4


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## Rob Byatt

Thanks Christain, at least people will listen now.



Morpheus uk said:


> Well my one has the same warning pattern asur ocealata, and the shield looks similar but not the same but the spikes look like a whlabergii!Just what is the pooint of people bringing identicle species to culture, oh and entomoly-GIST lol


Mate, the pattern does not matter. Have you not listened to anything me or Christain have rabbeted on about   

And if they were identical then they wouldn't have different scientific names and we wouldn't be even having this conversation  

Rob.


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## yen_saw

Kruszakus said:


> Sweet pictures Yen! I did not expect them to be this big... for a small species.Mine are small and black as ashes, but soon...
> 
> They are not as agressive as C. Elongata? I reckon they cannot tackle a 20-25 milimeters cricket?


Thanks Kruszakus. yeah a nice small species they are, although small in size, they can handle large prey. Based on what i have seen, _Pseudocreobotra sp. _is as agressive as the _Creoboter sp._



Morpheus uk said:


> Well my one has the same warning pattern asur ocealata, and the shield looks similar but not the same but the spikes look like a whlabergii!Just what is the pooint of people bringing identicle species to culture, oh and entomoly-GIST lol


They look alike but really a different species, although in the same genus. Now if people start to interbreed PW and PO then that will be bad and confusing.


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## Kruszakus

Yeah - I noticed that the first instar was stalking its prey just like grown C. Elongata did the other day - it was fun to watch, now I have to wait a couple of days, they seem to be almost ready for their first molt.

By the way - when do they lose the black color?


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## yen_saw

I can see larger portion of white color rather than black after 5th instar, and by subadult stage almost all black color are gone.


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## asdsdf

yen_saw said:


> Gez... i was sick for a few days and this spiny flower issue exploded into such confusion! :blink: and got dragged into this by asdsdf comments. See what you have done Morpheus  I think asdsdf is a little too excited with his _P. Ocellata _ and misunderstood what i told him as "rule" to apply :lol: . If i misled you in anyway Jasper i'm sorry but they are "generally" true especially compare to _P. Wahlbergii _but not the keys for ID.


Heh heh heh......sorry!


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## yen_saw

No need to apologize. I am telling you what i seen too. and it is from group of hundreds of _P. Ocellata _and _P. Wahlbergii _so i wasn't only picking the extreme specimen on the pics shown above. Those who bought from me will know what i am talking about. Actually, i didn't see ANY of the _P. Ocellata _larger than _P. Wahlbergii _from hundreds of them in my culture, and if the pronotum is not wider than the eye-point, you can pretty sure it is a _P. Ocellata _even they are at subadult stage, and the lobes on the abdomen are just another obvious thing i see, it is my observation from hunderds of both PW and PO and not just couple of them, anyone with half a brain can see that really. Unless the person has none of either specimen at all to compare with.

ID keys are for reference, it is dead and needs to be revised whenever possible. But human are alive, remember that.


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## asdsdf

WOOHOO!!!! I mated my PO, 8 days after she matured!!! I couldn't wait, and thought I could give it a try, since she was ver very fat and well fed. It worked!!! The male had to try many many tmes, but eventually, he got it!!! The problem is, it seems mantids are pervs too. ... :lol:


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## yen_saw

Sweet!!


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## Kruszakus

Em.. guys, I seem to have a problem.

My C. Wahlbergii don't want to eat - they are refusing food for the second day already! And some of them have very flat abdomens! I keep them at 25-28 degrees celcius, with low humidity, all of them in separate containers.

I just don't know what seems to be the matter!


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## yen_saw

Probably they are just not hungry or about to moult.


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## Kruszakus

I don't know - the one with the most swollen abdomen is still up for a D. Hydei from time to time, but the rest just does not want to eat - whitch is strange, very strange - because my friend has twelve mantids from the same ooth, and they still eat... damn it! Why these mantids must be so troublesome?!


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## asdsdf

Kruszakus said:


> I don't know - the one with the most swollen abdomen is still up for a D. Hydei from time to time, but the rest just does not want to eat - whitch is strange, very strange - because my friend has twelve mantids from the same ooth, and they still eat... damn it! Why these mantids must be so troublesome?!


Hmmm....I never had any troubles feeding them. Like Yen said, they seem to be molting. How old are they?


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## Kruszakus

They are about ten days old, maybe even a little bit more.

Four hours ago I took three of them to my friend, who taught me how to feed mantids from a needle.

When I arrived, we found out that one was dead already (it was alive half an hour before). Furthermore, the lids from other containers had reddish stains on them, looks like mantids are vomiting - they took D. Hydei from a needle, but quickly stopped munching and just left their supper... this does not bode well...


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## asdsdf

Kruszakus said:


> They are about ten days old, maybe even a little bit more.


10 year old nymphs may be molting. The usually molt pretty often during their earlier days. I have two Nigerian Flower Mantises, they didn't eat a lot when they were little. Only ate probably one tiny melanogaster fly every two days. However, when I shined a really bright light, (those emergnecy 5 LED lights) on them, they would eat more. Maybe it was like their natural habitat, where it was very bright???? Dunno, just something I noticed. Now, when older, they eat more often. I guess you could give it a try. &lt;_&lt;


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## Kruszakus

But they have a very bright light - my lamp is only 25 cm above their shelf, it's bright as heck.

Guess I should have bought at least ten of them...


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## asdsdf

Kruszakus said:


> But they have a very bright light - my lamp is only 25 cm above their shelf, it's bright as heck.Guess I should have bought at least ten of them...


I used a really bright one. You know, the ones that have warning labels not to shine in the eyes? Anyways, how many do you have? Just dump a whole bunch of melanogaster inside, and if they are hungry, they may eat one. (Just my opinion.)


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## Kruszakus

I use 11V - gives very bright, cold light - each shelf looks very aesthetic this way  

I did it, they did not want to hunt, I gave only one, they did not want to, I tried feeding from a needle - you know the answer to that... what a troublesome little bastards, I knew I should have taken B. Mendica or C. Elongata instead!


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## buddhistsoldier88

Morpheus uk said:


> Oh wow, just ckecked on my dads recently matured one and it looks 100% like ur whalbergiis, and he has bright blue eyes! its amazing, ive omly ever seen them go purple b4


PICTURE PICTURE PICTURE!!!!!! :lol: :lol:


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## asdsdf

Kruszakus said:


> I use 11V - gives very bright, cold light - each shelf looks very aesthetic this way  I did it, they did not want to hunt, I gave only one, they did not want to, I tried feeding from a needle - you know the answer to that... what a troublesome little bastards, I knew I should have taken B. Mendica or C. Elongata instead!


Don't worry! I hated my Nigerians, and now I like them. (Yes, the had skinngy little abdomens) Just dump a whole bunch and let them be. If they are starving, the'll just eat one to keep them alive. You'll like them when they are older.

P.S. (I think almost all flower mantises are extremely nervous when little, so those mentioned may have the same problem.) Plus, if they don't eat and starve to death, think of it as natural selection.


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## Kruszakus

I hope they will be ok - yesterday they managed to tackle some aphids - at least one per each mantid, but now they are ignoring any food - maybe it's time for their first moult.

I like them already - so small and still they can take down D. Hydei - this is a good sign...

But I will buy other flower mantids as well - they are amazing!


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## Morpheus uk

Got some pics, grouchy lil bugger, didnt have his blue eyes much today


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## Kruszakus

I'm now left with only three out of six, two are constantly vomiting and refusing any kind of food, and they look as if they were about to die too...

I wish I never bought this species - I'm very disappointed.


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## asdsdf

Kruszakus said:


> I'm now left with only three out of six, two are constantly vomiting and refusing any kind of food, and they look as if they were about to die too...I wish I never bought this species - I'm very disappointed.


Hmmmmm......have you fed them crickets, or something with/ate/touched/whatever carrots(Some people use carrots as cricket food.)? Carrots make mantids sick, and that usually doesn't happen with nymphs that are fed fruitflies pratically their whole nymph life, unless it involves really bad bacteria you have in the container/culture, or carrots. Maybe you should try to resolve that first, before you get the devil flower mantis, cause they may be a disspointment and a waste of money as well, if they start vomitting too.


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## Kruszakus

No - fruit flies colony is ok - O. Planiceps and P. Paradoxa ate those fruit flies and they were ok. I feed crickets only to mantids after 5-6 molt - and I don't use carrots.

Things were looking up - they stopped vomiting and started eating once again! But today one moulted badly - its legs were stuck in the old carapace - completely deformed! The last pair of legs had to be removed - I fear that it is a goner.

Plus - I lost one when I dropped the lid on which it was sitting - I could not find it - searched everywhere, but to no avail. I removed as many Daddy Long Legs spiders from my room as I could - maybe it will find its way to the ceiling, but the chances are slim...

Mendicas will be after their second molt - I think that they should be just about big enough to tackle the Indianmeal and Wax Moths - I got two colonies of the first species and five of the latter - so plenty of food, and a very good one.


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## asdsdf

WOOOHOOOO!!!! Got my first PO ooth!!! Finally!!! Took 8 days after mating. Pretty small compared to a PW, but around average size for PO.



Doesn't look exactly the same as Yen's, since mine are lightera little(The picture makes it look darker). Maybe has to do with the wood? How many eggs do you think are inside there? How long does it take for them to hatch? So then the overview of hatching a PO ooth is to put it in a container with 60% humidity(Spray every other day), keep it above 70 degrees, and wait? About right? Thanks!


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## yen_saw

asdsdf said:


> WOOOHOOOO!!!! Got my first PO ooth!!! Finally!!! Took 8 days after mating. Pretty small compared to a PW, but around average size for PO.
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't look exactly the same as Yen's, since mine are lightera little(The picture makes it look darker). Maybe has to do with the wood? How many eggs do you think are inside there? How long does it take for them to hatch? So then the overview of hatching a PO ooth is to put it in a container with 60% humidity(Spray every other day), keep it above 70 degrees, and wait? About right? Thanks!


It looks exactly the same as mine, but where/when did i show you pic of my _P. ocellata _ooth? _P. Ocellata _ooth and _P. Wahlbergii _ooth appear similar to me. SOme could be slightly lighter or darker. I keep my ooth at 85F/60%, mist once every other day. Hatching rate is usually around 20-50 nymphs per ooth.


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## asdsdf

I just went to your website, where you had pics. :lol: Your PW ooth looks almost black.

Thanks!


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## yen_saw

Ah ok :lol: the freshly laid ooth can be even pink/red in color but turn darker hours later.


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## Morpheus uk

Yay i finally got them ID`ed as whalbeergii, but [email protected]#t i have absolutly no where to get a female from, honestly mantid breeding is such a ###### hobby, yeah sure witnessing it is amazing and mantids are unuseral but what the bloody heck are you ment to do when you end up with all males?! spend another £30 and wait another few months?! &lt;_&lt; damn there isnt an angry enough smily


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## asdsdf

New ooth from a different female came through. First is wider, and the second is longer.

*Sigh* Poor Morpheus...How many species do you have?


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## Morpheus uk

9, 6 of which have no mates :angry:


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## asdsdf

Morpheus uk said:


> 9, 6 of which have no mates :angry:


I knew it...You *should* get more than two of one species to get mates, even if paired already.


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## asdsdf

Morpheus uk said:


> 9, 6 of which have no mates :angry:


I just *had* to click submit twice because my internet was slow...


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## macro junkie

iv just addad u to my flick acount..great work buddie


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## Kruszakus

I am totally dismayed by this mantis - it's so annoying! Five out of six are dead - luckily there were some mantids still to but, so I bought five.

I'll try to keep them in small groups - they are not hostile towards each other, and maybe keeping them in groups will prompt them to hunt more eagerly.


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## macro junkie

Kruszakus said:


> I am totally dismayed by this mantis - it's so annoying! Five out of six are dead - luckily there were some mantids still to but, so I bought five.I'll try to keep them in small groups - they are not hostile towards each other, and maybe keeping them in groups will prompt them to hunt more eagerly.


i have a male and female sub adult in post any day now..and im planning on putting them in separate tanks until they breed.also when i get the babys i hope to separte them mayby..if i have enough plastic cups...lol


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## Morpheus uk

No way!

Do not keep these together, thier quite aggressive, well all the ones ive seen are, and hi macro junkie


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## Kruszakus

They sit, or rather hang, next to each other - and they totally ignore themselves - besides - containers are quite big (height 9 cm, and 8 cm in diameter), so they have plenty of space and a lot of Melanogaster, Hydei and Aphids provided - they seem comfortable.


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## macro junkie

Morpheus uk said:


> No way!Do not keep these together, thier quite aggressive, well all the ones ive seen are, and hi macro junkie


hey buddie.im getting in to this breeding game..hopefully it goes well for me..with u guys helping me im sure i can do it.


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## asdsdf

macro junkie said:


> hey buddie.im getting in to this breeding game..hopefully it goes well for me..with u guys helping me im sure i can do it.


Don't worry too much about it! (Or at least if you have PO) One of my males has been paired with 4 different females! he is sure some stud...

Also, I keep the together still. (Subadult-to adult) As long as their tummies are full to the max, you should have not problems as adults, as long as you have more than one of each sex. (I have 8 females, 4 males.) As subadult, I didn't have any casualties. They did get into little fights, but no one was caught, and I didn't interfere.

This is what happened to my males: First male mated once, I tried again, but he stupidly flew in fron of a female in fear and then bye bye for him...Another(Number 3) came out deformed, so he was fed(yes, yes cruel me, but he was about to die anyways.) Another(Number 2. He was a beauty, with reddish markings and pink eyes. I managed to mate him with a gorgeous female with pink highlights, so I'm expecting very pretty nymphs.) died of unknown causes, excpet he had a dented eye, and the last is still standing strong.(Mated fourth yesterday night.) So all in all, not canabalism during or after mating. My males seem very confident. Stayed on the females for days after mating, until I had to forcibly remove them for another female.(Hey, the more they mate, the happier they are.) I lost two female adults to cannibalism, cause I didn't feed them for like a couple of days(ran out of natural food) and they had skinny stomachs. Now, when well fed with flies, crickets, etc., no casualties. I have three ooths, and expecting many more. So far, I'm loving this species! :lol: 

Now, it is just my experiences and all may not be the same, so don't blame me if all yours die.  

Kruszakus: I have no idea how hard it is to raise PO nymphs, but my C. Gemmatus(L2-L3) is practically perfect so far!(2 days. :lol: ) They aren't little ###### because they actually try to catch prey!(Even though they look kinda full.)


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## macro junkie

asdsdf said:


> Don't worry too much about it! (Or at least if you have PO) One of my males has been paired with 4 different females! he is sure some stud...Also, I keep the together still. (Subadult-to adult) As long as their tummies are full to the max, you should have not problems as adults, as long as you have more than one of each sex. (I have 8 females, 4 males.) As subadult, I didn't have any casualties. They did get into little fights, but no one was caught, and I didn't interfere.
> 
> This is what happened to my males: First male mated once, I tried again, but he stupidly flew in fron of a female in fear and then bye bye for him...Another(Number 3) came out deformed, so he was fed(yes, yes cruel me, but he was about to die anyways.) Another(Number 2. He was a beauty, with reddish markings and pink eyes. I managed to mate him with a gorgeous female with pink highlights, so I'm expecting very pretty nymphs.) died of unknown causes, excpet he had a dented eye, and the last is still standing strong.(Mated fourth yesterday night.) So all in all, not canabalism during or after mating. My males seem very confident. Stayed on the females for days after mating, until I had to forcibly remove them for another female.(Hey, the more they mate, the happier they are.) I lost two female adults to cannibalism, cause I didn't feed them for like a couple of days(ran out of natural food) and they had skinny stomachs. Now, when well fed with flies, crickets, etc., no casualties. I have three ooths, and expecting many more. So far, I'm loving this species! :lol:
> 
> Now, it is just my experiences and all may not be the same, so don't blame me if all yours die.
> 
> Kruszakus: I have no idea how hard it is to raise PO nymphs, but my C. Gemmatus(L2-L3) is practically perfect so far!(2 days. :lol: ) They aren't little ###### because they actually try to catch prey!(Even though they look kinda full.)


after reading this i cant wait to breed them..thanks for the info i really appreciate it..pitty your not in the uk.i want to find a few contacts that also breed these flower mantis..any way mine are getting sent out on monday..im going to post a thread here so any help will be greatly appreciated


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## Kruszakus

I know just one thing - if all my Wahlbergii die (I had eleven, now left with six) - I'm switching to P. Ocellata, there is no god damn way I'm giving up on flower mantids! The looks, the movements, the size (I don't like big and clumsy mantids) - everything what I want is there.


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## macro junkie

Kruszakus said:


> I know just one thing - if all my Wahlbergii die (I had eleven, now left with six) - I'm switching to P. Ocellata, there is no god damn way I'm giving up on flower mantids! The looks, the movements, the size (I don't like big and clumsy mantids) - everything what I want is there.


well i have a gaint asain mantis female..i wouldnt say there bad mantis..there massive,,!there good looking but i prefer the looks of the flower mantis.


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## Kruszakus

God damn it! 3rd instar just crushed and devoured 2nd instar - I'm down one P. Wahlbergii... well it's still better than seeing them starve to death.


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## asdsdf

&lt;a href="


 title="IMG_0630 by Asdsdf, on Flickr"&gt;&lt;img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2209/1768699050_0c5242fd1c_s.jpg" width="75" height="75" alt="IMG_0630" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;


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## yen_saw

Kruszakus said:


> I know just one thing - if all my Wahlbergii die (I had eleven, now left with six) - I'm switching to P. Ocellata, there is no god damn way I'm giving up on flower mantids! The looks, the movements, the size (I don't like big and clumsy mantids) - everything what I want is there.


Agree both are nice species. P. ocellata is easier to rear to adult and easier to breed (compared to P. wahlbergii) for me. They grow into adult sooner and mate willingly. BUt if you have problem keeping PW, you may see the same problem with PO.


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## macro junkie

yen_saw said:


> Agree both are nice species. P. ocellata is easier to rear to adult and easier to breed (compared to P. wahlbergii) for me. They grow into adult sooner and mate willingly. BUt if you have problem keeping PW, you may see the same problem with PO.


iv been keeping mantis about 3 months ish,,my 2nd ones where pair of P. wahlbergii..very easy to have..room is 75f..there very easy to look after..as easy as the giant Asian imo.


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## macro junkie

i just looked at thread again..nice pics buddie..what camera re u using and why is some flick pics not viewable


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## Morpheus uk

oo?


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## macro junkie

Morpheus uk said:


> oo?


what does oo mean?007?lol your james bond?lol


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## Morpheus uk

Nah, couldnt b bothered to say who lol

Plus i thought it sounded funny :lol:


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## macro junkie

Morpheus uk said:


> Nah, couldnt b bothered to say who lolPlus i thought it sounded funny :lol:


call the funny house. is there a doctour in the house?'Morpheus uk's loosing it :lol:


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## Mantis Keeper

This is one of my male PW's.


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## yen_saw

Nice Kirk. like the antenna color.


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## Mantis Keeper

Thanks, I thought it was interesting too, banding adds some flavor.


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## Morpheus uk

A few more, still a lonely male sub  






Gave him a little treat of a honey dipped waxworm






Dont touch him he knows mantis kung foo!


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## macro junkie

Morpheus uk said:


> A few more, still a lonely male sub
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gave him a little treat of a honey dipped waxworm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont touch him he knows mantis kung foo!


martin has them for sale..sub adults..nympths and adults.


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## Morpheus uk

Some one on BN has just put one up for sale, hasnt replied yet, it would be nice to breed these


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## macro junkie

yer its great fun../waiting for my 1st ooth to hatch..should be another week..  i have 80 nympths allready..2 died so far.


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