# Alien autopsy



## meaganelise9 (Jan 7, 2012)

Let me ask you folks this: do you ever do autopsies on mantids when they don't die of old age?

I ask because I did last night, and I found some unexpected things. My P. aeruginosa was egg bound and died. She'd stopped eating and by yesterday had become relatively motionless, so I put her down. What I noticed when I tried to feed her that night was that the cricket immediately went to a small black spot on her back and started biting. I removed it right away of course. The black spot was under her wings where it wouldn't normally be seen easily. I've seen other people post about a black spot here or there that tends to look pretty superficial. The spot was specifically right under the part of her right wing that was wrinkled. It hadn't inflated right in her last molt (before I had her). My thought was that perhaps that wrinkled end of the wing had been trapping moisture, which could have been a catalyst for a bacterial infection. The spot was small, but when I cut her open after she'd been in the freezer, everything past that point was black inside. I'm curious about other people's experiences with black spots like these. I should really have taken photos of all this, but honestly, I was too much of a mess, all upset over the loss of such a pretty girl (now a calendar girl)!


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## agent A (Jan 7, 2012)

I do a lot of autopsies, I've seen all different colors and once a male pseudoharpax that had wat looked like tons of eggs but I'm pretty sure they were spermetaphores but today's pseudoharpax male I dissected didn't have this


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## CoolMantid (Jan 7, 2012)

That pretty interesting. My matnis had a large grayish black mark under her abdomen. She didnt die of it though. She died in a mismolt.


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## sinensispsyched (Jan 7, 2012)

Strange. My male chinese had a pink/purple area under the abdomen, and it was spreading.


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## Domanating (Jan 7, 2012)

That's an interesting sight the cricket going for the spot. It could be a weak point or smell of wroting flesh? Nasty either way. Crickets can be vicious.

I had countless mantids with black spots that usually cause the deaths. As i learned here it can be anything from healling wounds or infected wounds or even gangrene. I had 2 opportunities for an autopsy when 2 of my females died with some black spots in their abdomens. It was pretty messy though. All i could see was brown fluid and brown smelly mass. Either way i didn't want to damage the mantis because i collect them. I just remove all the guts and try to find something while doing it. In both cases i found some tiny black masses pretty similar to blood clots, can't know for sure if i's normal. One female had a really large and nasty black spot. As i squeezed the guts and fluid out i could feel that below that spot it felt hard, rock solid hard. There was something there but i didn´t know what.


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## agent A (Jan 7, 2012)

Domanating said:


> i could feel that below that spot it felt hard, rock solid hard. There was something there but i didn´t know what.


Could be a tumor, I had a female gongylus develop a hard bump at the top of her thorax and at the bottom was an empty ring and it might have been from too high temps though she lived long and though eggbound wasn't that bad, I'll have to find the pic tomorrow I took of the tumor


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## dlemmings (Jan 7, 2012)

wow this sould be a (somewhat morbid) pinned topic and (viewer be warned) pics posted maybe even a tutorial by one or more of the more knowledgable forum members and on going info exchange


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## meaganelise9 (Jan 7, 2012)

Domanating said:


> That's an interesting sight the cricket going for the spot. It could be a weak point or smell of wroting flesh? Nasty either way.


Yes, this was my thought. A bacterial infection will always give off a strong/bad smell that a cricket may be attracted to. "something is dying. I can eat it."


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## meaganelise9 (Jan 7, 2012)

mantiscurious said:


> wow this sould be a (somewhat morbid) pinned topic and (viewer be warned) pics posted maybe even a tutorial by one or more of the more knowledgable forum members and on going info exchange


Perhaps so. We should take the responsibility to become aware of the ailments that are most common (not that there may be much we can do in many cases).

One a side note, we should also practice caution. After I saw the squishy black guts, finished, and disposed of it, I washed my hands thoroughly. Who knows what sort of bacteria or organisms are inside. I don't want encephalitis or anything..


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## PhilinYuma (Jan 8, 2012)

You are not doing autopsies guys; you are opening up a mantis without having any idea of its internal anatomy (am I correct?) let alone its pathology and are no wiser when you finish than when you started. Blackened tissue is usually necrotic tissue. Necrosis is not necessarily the result of infection. Frost bite is a common cause in humans.


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## meaganelise9 (Jan 8, 2012)

No need to get snippy.


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## Rick (Jan 8, 2012)

When I was a kid I opened up more mantids than I can count. Didnt really know what I was doing, but I still think it can be a learning experience.


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## lancaster1313 (Jan 8, 2012)

If I had the nerve to open up some of my former pets, I would do it. I have had a couple of mysterious premature deaths where I couldn't find any marks on the insects. I still wonder about why they died and it bothers me when I can't pinpoint a reason.  

I just don't think that I would know what to look for if it weren't the obvious injuries or blackened tissues. Also, I have had some insects live for quite a while, even if an injury or discoloration is obvious.


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## agent A (Jan 8, 2012)

here is that tumor i talked about, on the other side it was a dark brown mass, that clear circle was the outline of it

she lived a long time but it's still strange:







oh and those 2 dead males in the background died of old age


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## Krissim Klaw (Jan 8, 2012)

PhilinYuma said:


> You are not doing autopsies guys; you are opening up a mantis without having any idea of its internal anatomy (am I correct?) let alone its pathology and are no wiser when you finish than when you started.


That above is why I have never bothered opening up any of my mantises. I would have no idea what I am looking at to begin with or what is normal much less abnormal. That being said, I wouldn't say they are no wiser for it.


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## PhilinYuma (Jan 8, 2012)

meaganelise9 said:


> No need to get snippy.


Good one!! My point exactly!


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## frogparty (Jan 8, 2012)

I still have my lab atlas from invertebrate zoology that outlines all internal structures of most insect types. It was cheap, and you can get them off amazon.com or whatever. I would reccomend that if you are going to do dissections, at least have the reference material at hand so you can really learn from the experience


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## PhilinYuma (Jan 8, 2012)

frogparty said:


> I still have my lab atlas from invertebrate zoology that outlines all internal structures of most insect types. It was cheap, and you can get them off amazon.com or whatever. I would reccomend that if you are going to do dissections, at least have the reference material at hand so you can really learn from the experience


+1 Some inexpensive tools like fine forceps/tweezers, a scalpel, mounted needle or straight dental probe and other odds and ends will be useful, too. Also a surface where you can pin out the exoskepeton will help.When disecting roaches, crix and mantids, some folk will open them up from the back (dorsal surface) and remove the fat body (c.f.) first. That makes things easier. Good luck to you all!


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## agent A (Jan 8, 2012)

Phil, since u r smart about insect bodily functions, I would like to know your take on the tumor thing that gongy has in my pic I posted, it's a dark circle surrounded by a clear ring, don't know why it formed

Thanx


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## frogparty (Jan 8, 2012)

looks fungal


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## agent A (Jan 8, 2012)

Interesting thought, wat could've caused it? Was it the high heat they were subjected to???


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## Domanating (Jan 8, 2012)

Although it would be interesting to check the internals for cause of death i may say that if we want a comparison we must open a healthy mantis to actually learn and understand the differences. I don't feel capable of killing a strong healthy praying-mantis. Unless i find a drown praying-mantis for whatever reason.


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## Psychobunny (Jan 9, 2012)

Krissim Klaw said:


> That above is why I have never bothered opening up any of my mantises. I would have no idea what I am looking at to begin with or what is normal much less abnormal. That being said, I wouldn't say they are no wiser for it.


If no one had bothered to slice up human cadavers a few hundred years ago, we would

not have modern surgery


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