# How do FF Cultures work?



## blitzmantis (Feb 15, 2008)

I'm getting my 1st culture soon and i am not sure about several things:

1. How come they breed in the culture?

2. How do I keep them breeding?

3. Where should I keep them (temp, environment, light?)

4. How many should I supply to a group of nymphs from an ooth (formula? like: for every one mantid, two flies?)

Please help as I want to make the most out of my culture before they die out.


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## matt020593 (Feb 15, 2008)

blitzmantis said:


> I'm getting my 1st culture soon and i am not sure about several things:1. How come they breed in the culture?
> 
> 2. How do I keep them breeding? *-You have to make new cultures for them and put some of the flies in from your last culture then they lay eggs in the medium. (there is a thread on here some where on how to make the FF medium)*
> 
> ...


Hope this has helped. Some of the experts will probably give you clearer answers.


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## macro junkie (Feb 15, 2008)

1. How come they breed in the culture?

2. How do I keep them breeding?

3. Where should I keep them (temp, environment, light?)

4. How many should I supply to a group of nymphs from an ooth (formula? like: for every one mantid, two flies?)

1.cause they do..lol..its where the flys live..they mate and eat in there.

2.after a month or 2 just make a new culture and throw about 10 flys in the new culture..it wil take week or 2 to get started.

3.between 70-90f..hotter the better..they produce alot more and faster if u keep them hotter.

4.if your housing them in cups dont throw any more than 5 nymphs per cup..it freakes them out.

what i do is i have 1foot x 1foot net cage i bought from mantis place..i dump a lod of fruit flys in the cage every day..cause theres lots of space it doesnt matter if i put to many flys in..by the next day there all eaten any way..lol

also to make a culture all u need is potato mash powder and yeaste..mix the mash up till its just a bit thicker than runnie then sprinkle a small pinch of yeast in it and mix it in..then job done..i hope u have bought wingless or flightless..cause nornall frute flys are a nightmare!!!!!


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## blitzmantis (Feb 15, 2008)

I have read the thread about how to make FF medium, i cannot find MASA and I think it is a complicated and looks pointless to add all this stuff. Is there a simple way to make some medium (mashed up fruit and some cotton?)


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## matt020593 (Feb 15, 2008)

I think you can use mashed banana instead of all the complicated mediums. MASA is maise in the UK I think, you get it with maggots to keep them dry.


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## blitzmantis (Feb 15, 2008)

thanks. I'm gonna used mashed up fruit and honey.


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## Rick (Feb 15, 2008)

If you can, buy the medium. It is much less messier, has mold inhibitor and generally works better.


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## blitzmantis (Feb 15, 2008)

where can I get the medium (i'm in UK)?


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## Mantida (Feb 15, 2008)

Just one question I would like to clear up :

3. Where should I keep them (temp, environment, light?)

MJ, *90* degrees will certainly bake the culture! 85 degrees is the maximum for fruit flies, or the culture will start drying out and the flies will get cooked. Do not put the culture next to a window, as the sunlight will dry up the medium and will shorten the "lifespan" of your culture. Keep it away from windows, but not totally in the dark. Higher temps speed things up, and lower temps speed them down - but both extremes certainly aren't good.

Beware of mold - if it develops, it will kill the eggs, maggots, and adult flies. If you see mold (splotches of colorful patchy things), transfer your adult flies to a new culture so it can start again.

You can order medium online, it's the most common way we all get it. I make my own though. Seems like many people in the UK don't have much access to MASA.


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## blitzmantis (Feb 16, 2008)

I'll probably be making my own as well. But I'll use a simple recipe (potato flakes and yeast).


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## Rick (Feb 16, 2008)

I just keep them at room temperature.


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## macro junkie (Feb 16, 2008)

blitzmantis said:


> i cannot find MASA and I think it is a complicated and looks pointless to add all this stuff. Is there a simple way to make some medium (mashed up fruit and some cotton?)


do u even read my posts?All u need is potato mash/flakes powder and yeaste..mix the mash up till its just a bit thicker than runnie then sprinkle a small pinch of yeast in it and mix it in..frute would go rotten!


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## macro junkie (Feb 16, 2008)

Rick said:


> If you can, buy the medium. It is much less messier, has mold inhibitor and generally works better.


u cant in the uk rick..only buy cultures..this is why i said mash potato as its stocked every where in uk.not sure why he dont want to use mash potato.its what live foods uk use..there cultures rock! http://www.livefoodsdirect.co.uk/products.asp?dept=1009


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## macro junkie (Feb 16, 2008)

me to.i keep them at 75f....just a wild guess but in the summer when its 90f fruit flys are thriving?so why wouldn't they thrive in culture at 90f?..


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## Rick (Feb 16, 2008)

macro junkie said:


> u cant in the uk rick..only buy cultures..this is why i said mash potato as its stocked every where in uk.not sure why he dont want to use mash potato.its what live foods uk use..there cultures rock! http://www.livefoodsdirect.co.uk/products.asp?dept=1009


I've tried it. It molded and smelled.


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## blitzmantis (Feb 16, 2008)

When you have ur potato mash and yeast, do u then add fruit or just leave it?


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## Rick (Feb 16, 2008)

blitzmantis said:


> When you have ur potato mash and yeast, do u then add fruit or just leave it?


Don't add fruit.


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## macro junkie (Feb 16, 2008)

Rick said:


> Don't add fruit.


yer it seems to smell for 3 or 4 days but after that it dont smell at tall..i cant rember the reson its somthing to do with the yeast?i have masa on the way..il use that soon as it comes.


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## macro junkie (Feb 16, 2008)

blitzmantis said:


> When you have ur potato mash and yeast, do u then add fruit or just leave it?


no..just mash pototoe and water and pinch of yeast..hey..i have over 1kg of masa in the post from canada..soon as it turns up if u want il send u some of it for free..  your have to pay postage tho,.


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## blitzmantis (Feb 16, 2008)

what does the masa do?


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## darkspeed (Feb 16, 2008)

blitzmantis said:


> what does the masa do?


Masa is just another form of starch, as are the potatos. The yeast feeds on the starch breaking it down into super simple sugars and the maggots then feed on the sugars. Masa is nothing more than corn flour, the staple ingredient in corn tortillas. I dont know if they eat those in spain, but it seems to be the closest place to look for the stuff over there in Europe. Still if money is no object, just stick with Rebecca's culture mix... it has the antifungal ingredients necessary to provide the optimum conditions for foolproof fly breeding. Noe I havent tried this yet, but the masa recipe called for vinegar and hone to act a mold inhibitors. I dont see why mixing vinegar and honey into the mashed potatoes would do anything but increase likelyhood of success.


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## blitzmantis (Feb 16, 2008)

so why doesn't everyone just use potatoes instead?


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## macro junkie (Feb 16, 2008)

blitzmantis said:


> so why doesn't everyone just use potatoes instead?


because masa works better for some reson


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## blitzmantis (Feb 16, 2008)

...okay. :mellow:


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## chun (Feb 20, 2008)

i've used powdered mash potato flakes + water + sugar + baker's yeast (and a few drops of blue food dye). This has worked a treat. The culture has been very productive and i have never had any significant problems with moulds or fungus.

It's rso easy, i dont really understand how people are struggling to culture them


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## darkspeed (Feb 20, 2008)

chun said:


> i've used powdered mash potato flakes + water + sugar + baker's yeast (and a few drops of blue food dye). This has worked a treat. The culture has been very productive and i have never had any significant problems with moulds or fungus. It's rso easy, i dont really understand how people are struggling to culture them


My struggle is that Hydei eggs take longer to hatch than the lifespan of the breeders... By the time the eggs hatch and maggots abound, the breeders are nearly all dead. The mortality rate of the damn little things is unnerving. I dont really have mold problems, but my cultures are always littered with the dead bodies of short lived breeders. heck, I would be willing to say that more flies die for no reason that in the mouths of my mantids.

Also, the amount of mold issues you have are directly proportional to the clenliness of your air... so it is hard to really say whether or not a certian culture recipe is more or less mold friendly, as every person to try a certain culture recipe has hundreds of different mold spores that could possibly be in the air at their location during any given time of year. The only way to insure that you dont have mold problems with your culture is to take countermeasures against potential mold.


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## OGIGA (Feb 20, 2008)

In my opinion, the mash potato flakes work well. The problem is that it works too well. Everything reproduces too quickly and then it gets really messy. Also, the potato mash gets liquidy after a few weeks so I end up making another culture or adding more potato flakes to the culture.

The potato+Masa mix is good. It's a little slower, but I don't get the over-reproduction problem as much.

The most steady medium I've tried is the one on this forum with apple sauce, honey, vinegar, potato flakes, masa, food coloring, blah blah. It takes longer to get started, but it works really well for D. melanogaster. It doesn't work that well for D. hydei.

Anyway, with the potato and potato+masa media, I get mold, but the mold doesn't seem to be that big of a problem. The culture still produces for quite some time. Also, I don't think it smells but that may be because I got used to it.


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## albedoa (Feb 21, 2008)

Stupid question: What is the purpose of the yeast?

I started a culture a few days ago using the recipe in the original post minus the honey and with only two pinches of yeast. I will report the results.


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## Tunedbeat (Feb 22, 2008)

albedoa said:


> Stupid question: What is the purpose of the yeast?I started a culture a few days ago using the recipe in the original post minus the honey and with only two pinches of yeast. I will report the results.


Yeast helps prevent molds. My mix is one whole banana, half cup of potato flakes, then add some water and vinegar. I've cultured atleast 8 cultures of wingless fruit flies using this simple recipe. And, of course your culture will start to die off after awhile. That is also a good sign that you need to start a new culture.


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## Orin (Feb 22, 2008)

blitzmantis said:


> so why doesn't everyone just use potatoes instead?


Everyone does use potato flakes (check out any normal commercial mix), the masa corn medium idea is a mantidforum fad unkown to the vast majority of fruit fly culturers. It does seem silly to replace an easily acquired, extremely inexpensive medium with something difficult to acquire and relatively expensive. It also seems strange that fermentation would have no smell on a corn medium but there have been no comparative threshold odor number tests performed to date.

You didn't read the sticky at all hugh? Fruit Fly Culturing


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## macro junkie (Feb 22, 2008)

ok its ben about 1 week with the mix i did of potatoe flakes and water and small pinch of yeast..i made 2 cultures..1 with flightless and 1 with wingless..i now see both maggots in both cultures..soon as the masa turns up il be testing his way out but for now looks like all is good..


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## macro junkie (Feb 22, 2008)

aron - just reading your thread..i wish i red it 1st before making my cultures last week..i red

*If ambient humidity is less than 40% add 2 teaspoons water. If 15% or less add 1-2 tablespoon water. There will appear to be way too much water, but in only a short time the flakes expand. If too much water is used the bottom layer will turn back into water by the next day. If there is too much water the flies and maggots can drown, too little and they won't lay eggs or grow well. The upper surface should be fluid when the maggots are approaching full size but only the upper layer and not before that time.*

great advice!!!!


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## macro junkie (Feb 22, 2008)

Mantida said:


> MJ, *90* degrees will certainly bake the culture! 85 degrees is the maximum for fruit flies, or the culture will start drying out and the flies will get cooked. Do not put the culture next to a window, as the sunlight will dry up the medium and will shorten the "lifespan" of your culture. Keep it away from windows, but not totally in the dark. Higher temps speed things up, and lower temps speed them down - but both extremes certainly aren't good.


i got this from Orin - Temperature

D. melanogaster can be reared in temperatures from 65-90F


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