# Watching..



## sueb4653 (Aug 31, 2012)

Who watchs Monster Bug Wars?


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## hierodula (Aug 31, 2012)

Me! although i usually watch on youtube..


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## gripen (Aug 31, 2012)

I sure don't. The show is staged and wastes good specimens on primitive gladiatorial style entertainment with little to non educational value.


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## sueb4653 (Aug 31, 2012)

gripen said:


> I sure don't. The show is staged and wastes good specimens on primitive gladiatorial style entertainment with little to non educational value.


I take you dont think that they film in the wild


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## gripen (Aug 31, 2012)

They do not. I can post an article about the show that proves it.


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## sueb4653 (Aug 31, 2012)

gripen said:


> They do not. I can post an article about the show that proves it.


would be interested to see it please


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## gripen (Aug 31, 2012)

minibeastwildlife.blogspot.com/2011/04/monster-bug-wars.html


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## sueb4653 (Aug 31, 2012)

Good article and I am glad they are foreright in how they do it

but when you think about it we are not much different we feed other bugs to our mantis usually in an enclosed area where the other cannot escape

just my two pennies worth


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## TySAAAN (Aug 31, 2012)

I just watched two episodes and I'm hooked! Thanks for recommending this! You guys should watch the episode on the Praying Mantis, its awesome ^_^ 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcc6mrl8_Y4

The fight starts at 5:06.


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## sueb4653 (Aug 31, 2012)

there are a bunch of episodes with praying mantids


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## TySAAAN (Aug 31, 2012)

gripen said:


> They do not. I can post an article about the show that proves it.


Does it matter? I mean its not like they're going to have a totally split personality if its staged or not.


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## TySAAAN (Aug 31, 2012)

sueb4653 said:


> there are a bunch of episodes with praying mantids


There are?! Do you have a link to the other ones?


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## sueb4653 (Aug 31, 2012)

I watch them though Amazon


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## TySAAAN (Aug 31, 2012)

sueb4653 said:


> I watch them though Amazon


Oh, darn. Maybe I can find them on YouTube or something.


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## gripen (Aug 31, 2012)

sueb4653 said:


> Good article and I am glad they are foreright in how they do it
> 
> but when you think about it we are not much different we feed other bugs to our mantis usually in an enclosed area where the other cannot escape
> 
> just my two pennies worth


I appreciate your insight. You are exactly correct it is like us feeding bugs to our mantids. But that is not how they market it. They market it like they are in the wild and encountering each other in far natural combat. That is far from true though. I would not loath this show so much if they did not kill off valuable specimens in unfair fights with horrible commentary in staged situations.What really put me over the edge was when the killed off a beautiful male Choeradodis (at that point in time we were still trying to get the genus in culture).


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## hierodula (Aug 31, 2012)

Gripen I agree they are staged, but it is educational to a certain degree. But in general, yes, all the insects that die are unessecary, especially when an insect much bigger is pitted against a smaller one.


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## sueb4653 (Aug 31, 2012)

point well taken


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## sueb4653 (Aug 31, 2012)

I found more on you tube but I cannot get a url to post on here

it wont let me cut and paste


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## fleurdejoo (Aug 31, 2012)

Is the Choeradodis in culture now??

Because that is my dream mantis!

I don't think I have seen this show but going to read the article now.


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## gripen (Aug 31, 2012)

fleurdejoo said:


> Is the Choeradodis in culture now??
> 
> Because that is my dream mantis!
> 
> I don't think I have seen this show but going to read the article now.


Yes they are in culture in the UK.


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## fleurdejoo (Aug 31, 2012)

Oh wait...I'm a lying liar! I have watched this show a few times and dug it.

You know the first post on there is someone saying how awful the people making this show are and the writer asks "are you the people who pulled wings off flies as children?!"

Well guys I did that yesterday so....yeaaaah I am that kid and so are you if you're feeding your mantid's!


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## lancaster1313 (Sep 1, 2012)

They use some awful mammalian sound effects that made me laugh at first, but my daughter and I stopped watching it because it was distasteful the way they put same size creatures together.

For example, that mantis probably needed some persuasion to attack such a large phasmid, and it didn't even get close to finishing.  

It does seem like a waste of good arthropoda.


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 1, 2012)

gripen said:


> I sure don't. The show is staged and wastes good specimens on primitive gladiatorial style entertainment with little to non educational value.


I know!!! They wasted a perfectly healthy and beautiful Choeradodis male and killed him in a gruesome way. It's just like that gladiator bugs thing on youtube.

THE ABSOLUTE WORST ONE OF ALL  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFkUhVlOxCE


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 1, 2012)

likebugs said:


> They use some awful mammalian sound effects that made me laugh at first, but my daughter and I stopped watching it because it was distasteful the way they put same size creatures together.
> 
> For example, that mantis probably needed some persuasion to attack such a large phasmid, and it didn't even get close to finishing.
> 
> It does seem like a waste of good arthropoda.


They also put together an owl butterfly caterpillar and a giant carnivorous katydid. Who ya think's gonna win??? caterpillars are plant eater!!!!! It's a terrible waste of life


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## sueb4653 (Sep 1, 2012)

brancsikia339 said:


> They also put together an owl butterfly caterpillar and a giant carnivorous katydid. Who ya think's gonna win??? caterpillars are plant eater!!!!! It's a terrible waste of life


but it is still what we do, we feed all many of other bugs to our mantids that dont stay a chance against the mantis

only difference is they are doing it for educational purposes and of course to make money from the show


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## gripen (Sep 1, 2012)

sueb4653 said:


> but it is still what we do, we feed all many of other bugs to our mantids that dont stay a chance against the mantis
> 
> only difference is they are doing it for educational purposes and of course to make money from the show


But they portray the fight as fair, we do not. I do not see what educational purposes you speak of. All it does is show insects in an evil light (as ruthless killers out for blood). Is that how we want people to think of bugs? they also provide basic and sometimes down right wrong information.


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## sueb4653 (Sep 1, 2012)

gripen said:


> But they portray the fight as fair, we do not. I do not see what educational purposes you speak of. All it does is show insects in an evil light (as ruthless killers out for blood). Is that how we want people to think of bugs? they also provide basic and sometimes down right wrong information.


By educational I mean showing what happens in the bug world, and I guess to an uneducated person on bugs they would know no difference

I would know no difference unless someone like you pointed out the wrongs

I would think the majority of people out there already think of bugs as nasty and I admit that some bugs I still find distasteful

A year ago I would not have thought that I would be sitting here surrounded by a room full of "bugs" and to tell you the truth I dont think of my mantis as "bugs"

the feeders yes but not the mantis

so how is the problem solved? I dont think it will be unless someone puts out some quality education

and I dont think that is gonna happen too soon big big channels like discovery and science channel are gonna do what makes them money and unfortunalty in this day and age it is blood and guts whether it be bug against bug or people againt people

sad but true


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## lancaster1313 (Sep 1, 2012)

I enjoy my feeders as much as my predators. I treat them well and give them food that they like. If I think they are too big for the mantis to eat, they are breeders. I don't enjoy watching my mantids catching huge prey items, possibly getting injured theirselves, and then only being able to take a few bites before discarding the still struggling creatures. It happens sometimes, but it is not intentional on my part. When I feed my pets, it is not to watch a fight and see who wins.


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## sueb4653 (Sep 1, 2012)

likebugs said:


> I enjoy my feeders as much as my predators. I treat them well and give them food that they like. If I think they are too big for the mantis to eat, they are breeders. I don't enjoy watching my mantids catching huge prey items, possibly getting injured theirselves, and then only being able to take a few bites before discarding the still struggling creatures. It happens sometimes, but it is not intentional on my part. When I feed my pets, it is not to watch a fight and see who wins.


I usually throw in the feeders and turn away LOL


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## fleurdejoo (Sep 1, 2012)

I have to say I honestly don't treat my feeders as well as I treat my mantids. For sure. They are disgusting flies and I don't like them. Well I like the smaller ok. But the big gross ones. Gah! Creep shivers!!!


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 1, 2012)

gripen said:


> But they portray the fight as fair, we do not. I do not see what educational purposes you speak of. All it does is show insects in an evil light (as ruthless killers out for blood). Is that how we want people to think of bugs? they also provide basic and sometimes down right wrong information.


The narrator always is yelling things negative about bugs. In the beginning hes always like "in the bug world, you have to be a killer to survive. Blood thirsty and ruthless and stuff" BLAH BLAH BLAH RUTHLESS BLAH BLAH KILLER it really gets annoying. AND most of the show's "educational info" is bull.


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 1, 2012)

sueb4653 said:


> I usually throw in the feeders and turn away LOL


I treat my feeders very well. But i do admit to watching my mantids eat sometimes. It's interesting

But it's different than faking an educational program and putting two insects that could themselves both be pets at risk of imminent death. That's all i'm saying


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## Mime454 (Sep 1, 2012)

Where can I get a cool hooded mantis?


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## gripen (Sep 1, 2012)

Mime454 said:


> Where can I get a cool hooded mantis?


Europe. And you will need a lot of money and experience to match. They are way more difficult than Idolos.


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## Mime454 (Sep 1, 2012)

gripen said:


> Europe. And you will need a lot of money and experience to match. They are way more difficult than Idolos.


More difficult than idolos? What do they need? Gold plated cages?

I haven't found idolos very difficult so far.


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## sueb4653 (Sep 1, 2012)

Mime454 said:


> Where can I get a cool hooded mantis?


costa rico


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## fleurdejoo (Sep 1, 2012)

I guess I have to admit that I love MMA fights and hockey and basically any 2 dudes pounding the ###### out of each other!

I think that's way crappier then insect fights.

But I personally would never waste one of my mantid's by fighting them.

Watch! Soon this whole forum will be the hub for International mantis boxing matches!!!

I call Team mantis as my name!


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 1, 2012)

Mime454 said:


> More difficult than idolos? What do they need? Gold plated cages?
> 
> I haven't found idolos very difficult so far.


No. Proper lighting, height, moisture, food, especially height and moisture. This species has been known to drop dead for no reason. They are apparently prone to infection if oversprayed or undersprayed


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## Mime454 (Sep 1, 2012)

brancsikia339 said:


> No. Proper lighting, height, moisture, food, especially height and moisture. This species has been known to drop dead for no reason. They are apparently prone to infection if oversprayed or undersprayed


I'm going to look for an ooth in the uk forums. Then I can breed and bring them to the U.S.


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## gripen (Sep 1, 2012)

Even if you could find any I would not recommend that someone of your experience level try them.


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## Mime454 (Sep 1, 2012)

gripen said:


> Even if you could find any I would not recommend that someone of your experience level try them.


I've kept a lot of mantises. How many more should I keep?


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## gripen (Sep 1, 2012)

Just get a couple more years of experience. Breeding especially.


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 2, 2012)

gripen said:


> Just get a couple more years of experience. Breeding especially.


Agreed. This species isn't for the "faint of heart" if you know what i mean. One story i read said that the guy didn't feed his choeradodis adult female for one day and the next day she was found dead on the floor with sludge coming out of the abdomen. There are a lot of choeradodis stories and guides.

click on september 2011 newsletter (has choeradodis caresheet): http://www.ukmantisforums.co.uk/misc.php?do=page&amp;template=newsletters

http://www.ukmantisforums.co.uk/general-mantis-pics/10322-choeradodis-rhombicollis-hooded-mantis.html

http://www.ukmantisf...ie-konigin.html


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## aNisip (Sep 2, 2012)

This goes for a lot of ppl in this hobby, I'm not targeting anyone specifically but just because you want a mantis because it looks cool or w/e it doesn't mean you should get it. Like if someone was offering Toxodera sp. I would only want people with experience to get the mantis, because in this hobby it's not about the money but experience... just because it would be cool to have a rare mantis it would be your responsibility to help get it in to culture and take it seriously...we aren't taking about T sinensis here...


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 2, 2012)

AndrewNisip said:


> This goes for a lot of ppl in this hobby, I'm not targeting anyone specifically but just because you want a mantis because it looks cool or w/e it doesn't mean you should get it. Like if someone was offering Toxodera sp. I would only want people with experience to get the mantis, because in this hobby it's not about the money but experience... just because it would be cool to have a rare mantis it would be your responsibility to help get it in to culture and take it seriously...we aren't taking about T sinensis here...


Exactly. It'd be like someone who's only raised popas buying a majangella moultoni. It wouldn't make sense. I think it would be okay to get a choeradodis if you've been raising or breeding mantids for about 5 years. (P.S i have spent 8 years raising mantids. That's more than half my life!)


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## aNisip (Sep 2, 2012)

I'm pushing 12 years into the hobby and I have finally got my hands on some Idolo this year...(because many ppl who have experience have got this specie into culture and I believe I am experienced enough to give this specie a shot) and so far it has been nothing but successful...also the mantis hobby is sort of like a culture...just because u research the caresheet doesn't make you an expert on the specie...this is comparable to a culture much like if u took 3 years of a language like an African aboriginal language won't necessarily grant u a chief position with an aboriginal tribe...u will most likely discover something about the specie that you didn't plan on...u will need experience among that tribe to be given responsibility much like you need experience with a certain specie to be able to give credible advice.

All the best,

Andrew


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## gripen (Sep 2, 2012)

Agreed. This is my 8th year or so in the hobby and I have only just started keeping Idolos. Reading and research is great but nothing beats hands on experience. I would recommend to people who are just starting to try and maintain a breeding group of ghosts or hierodulas before branching out to more difficult sp.

Sorry for all the off topic Sue :blush:


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## sueb4653 (Sep 2, 2012)

gripen said:


> Agreed. This is my 8th year or so in the hobby and I have only just started keeping Idolos. Reading and research is great but nothing beats hands on experience. I would recommend to people who are just starting to try and maintain a breeding group of ghosts or hierodulas before branching out to more difficult sp.
> 
> Sorry for all the off topic Sue :blush:


heck I dont care as long as their is conversation going on


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## Extrememantid (Sep 2, 2012)

In the "Giant rainforest mantis" vid it is a H. Majascula


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## gripen (Sep 2, 2012)

Yes


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## angelofdeathzz (Sep 2, 2012)

At the risk of sounding arrogant (Haha), just get a couple of hooded ooths(Choeradodis) and send them to Henry and I, we'll take care of the rest...  

But then again it pays to have friends on the UK forum, I may have look into these if people have a interest in them and are serious about trying them here in the USA?


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## gripen (Sep 2, 2012)

angelofdeathzz said:


> At the risk of sounding arrogant (Haha), just get a couple of hooded ooths(Choeradodis) and send them to Henry and I, we'll take care of the rest...
> 
> But then again it pays to have friends on the UK forum, I may have look into these if people have a interest in them and are serious about trying them here in the USA?


I think that the only way they will get to the US is in ooth form. All other forms are to fragile (except maybe L5-L6 nymphs.). Convincing them to ship them to the US is a whole other story that I would rather not be a part of.


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## angelofdeathzz (Sep 2, 2012)

gripen said:


> I think that the only way they will get to the US is in ooth form. All other forms are to fragile (except maybe L5-L6 nymphs.). Convincing them to ship them to the US is a whole other story that I would rather not be a part of.


You know it bud! When buying from overseas ooths are the way to go, nymphs get banged around, dry up, and mismolt most of the time. I mean I've had some success with live nymphs from across the pond but it's a big risk and hard on the mantis as well if they do make it, larger instars will most likely lose feet and/or legs on the 5-6 day+ journey.


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## patrickfraser (Sep 2, 2012)

Just think that by the time it takes you to get the experience you need, they may be common in the US. Why the rush to always be first? I guess if it's "rare", it is always the most prized. Like my chameleons. Just basic veileds, nothing special, but stayrt talking about "falys" and other rarities people are all over it. They're like chameleon snobs and I suspect the same has a place in the mantid community.


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## gripen (Sep 2, 2012)

patrickfraser said:


> Just think that by the time it takes you to get the experience you need, they may be common in the US. Why the rush to always be first? I guess if it's "rare", it is always the most prized. Like my chameleons. Just basic veileds, nothing special, but stayrt talking about "falys" and other rarities people are all over it. They're like chameleon snobs and I suspect the same has a place in the mantid community.


A big old +1 to this! Let the experts do there work ( I don't count myself in this group).


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## angelofdeathzz (Sep 2, 2012)

I think some people(myself included) just like the challenge? With any luck and thanks to a friend in the UK, I may be bringing a very rare and non-existent (in the US) species into culture soon, fingers crossed... Rare means fun, excitement, mixed with some headache, lol. Who could ask for more! :lol:


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## aNisip (Sep 2, 2012)

angelofdeathzz said:


> I think some people(myself included) just like the challenge? With any luck and thanks to a friend in the UK, I may be bringing a very rare and non-existent (in the US) species into culture soon, fingers crossed... Rare means fun, excitement, mixed with some headache, lol. Who could ask for more! :lol:


You go Nick!  

-Andrew


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 2, 2012)

angelofdeathzz said:


> I think some people(myself included) just like the challenge? With any luck and thanks to a friend in the UK, I may be bringing a very rare and non-existent (in the US) species into culture soon, fingers crossed... Rare means fun, excitement, mixed with some headache, lol. Who could ask for more! :lol:


I'm up for any challenge! Hit me with your best shot!!


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## Mime454 (Sep 2, 2012)

I didn't even know that it was rare in the US. I just thought that it looks really cool! I too am going to try to get an ooth.


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 3, 2012)

Mime454 said:


> I didn't even know that it was rare in the US. I just thought that it looks really cool! I too am going to try to get an ooth.


Good luck. Currently (as of early summer) only 3 people are breeding them. Be careful when buying this species because it will likely cost over 100 dollars just for the ooth. As for keeping the nymphs alive, you got a lot of work ahead of you. I'm not putting you down, just letting you know the risks. If you succeed, let me know


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## Mime454 (Sep 3, 2012)

brancsikia339 said:


> Good luck. Currently (as of early summer) only 3 people are breeding them. Be careful when buying this species because it will likely cost over 100 dollars just for the ooth. As for keeping the nymphs alive, you got a lot of work ahead of you. I'm not putting you down, just letting you know the risks. If you succeed, let me know


I only spend money from the mantids I sell, so this is going to take awhile.


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 4, 2012)

Mime454 said:


> I only spend money from the mantids I sell, so this is going to take awhile.


Oh, Well in that case, i agree. Good luck on your goal!


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## derryjellybies (Sep 4, 2012)

Why does it sound like a lion roaring and a scream at (6:20)? I am assuming the sounds were added in for dramatic effect, haha.


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 4, 2012)

derryjellybies said:


> Why does it sound like a lion roaring and a scream at (6:20)? I am assuming the sounds were added in for dramatic effect, haha.


yes they add mammalian sound to "enhance" it


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## Mime454 (Sep 4, 2012)

brancsikia339 said:


> yes they add mammalian sound to "enhance" it


I thought that it made it pretty funny. I can't imagine that the people who decided that weren't high.


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