# P. walbergii sexing



## Synapze (Jan 3, 2020)

I have a large batch of spinys and I am having difficulty with determining sex. Does anyone have a picture of a side by side comparison? I'm finding conflicting info and the spines are difficult for me to count. These specimens have had almost no handling and are rather skittish.

I've read that the wings of the male extend beyond the abdomen, but I've seen both male and female specimens with wings that extend beyond the abdomen. I've read that this species can be hard to sex. Any tips would be appreciated before I inadvertently attempt to mate Adam and Steve.


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## MantisGirl13 (Jan 3, 2020)

These are adult?

- MantisGirl13


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## Synapze (Jan 3, 2020)

Adult. There are 12 in total, all with wings that extend beyond the abdomen.


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## MrGhostMantis (Jan 3, 2020)

Pictures?


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## hysteresis (Jan 4, 2020)

Females abdominal spines protrude markedly past the sides of the wings. Males have thicker antennae.


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## tracy (Jan 4, 2020)

I've spent more time than I want to think about staring at wahlbergii nymph butts, but adults are easier without needing to count spines IME. Pictures would help!


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 4, 2020)

Males are much thinner even the first week after they are all dried from the molt. The females look like they have a ruffle

along the wing line on abs. Males don't have that.


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## Synapze (Jan 4, 2020)

tracy said:


> I've spent more time than I want to think about staring at wahlbergii nymph butts, but adults are easier without needing to count spines IME. Pictures would help!


The batch is too large to get individual pictures, and since they've received no handling it would be a big undertaking.  I think I have enough puzzle pieces to figure it out now. If I have any that are questionable I'll post some photos.


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## tracy (Jan 4, 2020)

Synapze said:


> The batch is too large to get individual pictures, and since they've received no handling it would be a big undertaking.  I think I have enough puzzle pieces to figure it out now. If I have any that are questionable I'll post some photos.


If you post one that you think is female and one that you think is male, we could confirm for you and you'd at least know for sure. I didn't mean post 12 LOL.


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## Synapze (Jan 4, 2020)

hibiscusmile said:


> Males are much thinner even the first week after they are all dried from the molt. The females look like they have a ruffle
> 
> along the wing line on abs. Males don't have that.


I'll check for ruffles today. I'm so used to the males wings being longer, this has been a challenge with my limited vision. I've noticed a slight size difference, but don't have enough confidence to risk putting them in the mating cage. I may post a photo when I get the pair out and have one of you confirm.


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## Synapze (Jan 4, 2020)

tracy said:


> If you post﻿ one ﻿that you think is female and one that you think is male, we could confirm for you and you'd at least know for sure. I didn't mean post 12 LOL


Once I pick out the couple I plan to breed this evening, I'll post photos to get confirmation. I breed Creobroters and there's no uncertainty there. Poor tiny little males. 

I had no idea this species could be difficult to sex. Then again... I'm blind as a bat.


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## tracy (Jan 4, 2020)

I had issues with them initially when I got my first nymphs. (Then again, mantids were new to me period.) Somehow I managed to breed those and I'm a lot more confident with gen 2. All of my females had wings past the abdomen. One of my males had pretty short wings for a male. So that particular rule never helped me on these. 



hibiscusmile said:


> Males are much thinner even the first week after they are all dried from the molt. The females look like they have a ruffle
> 
> along the wing line on abs. Males don't have that.


I wouldn't have known how to word that, but yeah, a ruffle.


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## hysteresis (Jan 4, 2020)

See how the abdominal spines are noticably wider on the female?

The males are more slender and a bit shorter in length as well.


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## Synapze (Jan 4, 2020)

hysteresis said:


> See how﻿﻿﻿ ﻿the abdominal spines are noticably wider on the female?﻿
> 
> The males are more slender and a bit shorter in ﻿length﻿ as﻿﻿ ﻿well﻿﻿.
> 
> ﻿


Thanks for sharing the photo!


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