# very limited parthenogenesis abilities



## massaman (Aug 8, 2009)

i just read somewhere the Giant Asian Mantis has very limited parthenogenesis abilities and wonder if anyone else heard of this!


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## [email protected] (Aug 8, 2009)

I hope not i have a lone female i let my little cousins have she has laid 3 ooths and they trashed all three. :blink:


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## jameslongo (Aug 11, 2009)

massaman said:


> i just read somewhere the Giant Asian Mantis has very limited parthenogenesis abilities and wonder if anyone else heard of this!


what's your source?


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## massaman (Aug 11, 2009)

this is where i found it saying the parthenogenetic ability and well not much else it says about it that its very limited on that ability

http://www.phasmania.co.uk/htm/H_membranacea.htm


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## jameslongo (Aug 11, 2009)

massaman said:


> this is where i found it saying the parthenogenetic ability and well not much else it says about it that its very limited on that abilityhttp://www.phasmania.co.uk/htm/H_membranacea.htm


The owners of this site can't even sex mantids properly. I quote, "Females can be identified from males by the fact that they have 8 abdominal segments instead of 6 (male)..." :huh: Females generally have 6 &amp; males have &gt;6 segments.

Plus they themselves do not have any reference for their claim (no articles etc.), so they lack credibility. I don't believe it. &lt;_&lt;


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## bassist (Aug 12, 2009)

What they most likely mean is there is no parthenogenesis in the species.


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## Emile.Wilson (Aug 12, 2009)

Don't trust that website.


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## PhilinYuma (Aug 12, 2009)

massaman said:


> i just read somewhere the Giant Asian Mantis has very limited parthenogenesis abilities and wonder if anyone else heard of this!


About fifty years ago, there was a fuss in the British press about scientists' ability to mechanically induce meiosis in a human ovum, and this was seen by some as "scientific evidence for the virgin birth of Jesus the Nazarene. I mentioned this to a merchant seaman I knew, and he said, "Well, if the scientists say it's true, I'm not gonna argue about it, but my daughter had better not come home in the family way and tell me tell me it's a bleeding virgin birth!"

So, maybe parthenogenesis is possible in Asians, but don't buy a lone female in the hope that you'll get offspring from her ooths.


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## Emile.Wilson (Aug 12, 2009)

The website says the same thing for Parasphendale agriona.


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## Rob Byatt (Aug 12, 2009)

I have never witnessed parthenogenesis in this species and though that doesn't rule it out, it is very unlikely.

By the way, neither male nor female mantids have 6/8 segments  That is why I always say you have to look on the *underside* of the abdomen where you can *SEE* 6 or 8 segments.


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## Rick (Aug 12, 2009)

Don't believe everything you read. Besides, you should get your info here.


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## Katnapper (Aug 12, 2009)

Rick said:


> Don't believe everything you read. Besides, you should get your info here.


+1

But even here, be aware that not every member who posts or gives advice is an experienced keeper or completely knowledgeable expert. Use common sense in figuring out which advice is likely good or bad. Researching the experience level of members who give advice is also prudent.


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## jameslongo (Aug 12, 2009)

Rob Byatt said:


> By the way, neither male nor female mantids have 6/8 segments  That is why I always say you have to look on the *underside* of the abdomen where you can *SEE* 6 or 8 segments.


Good call, Rob. I was just being lazy


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## PhilinYuma (Aug 13, 2009)

Rob Byatt said:


> I have never witnessed parthenogenesis in this species and though that doesn't rule it out, it is very unlikely.By the way, neither male nor female mantids have 6/8 segments  That is why I always say you have to look on the *underside* of the abdomen where you can *SEE* 6 or 8 segments.


Yeah, this is good advice. For anyone still confused about "segment" counts, maybe this will help. All mantids, male and female, have ten segments. When we count "segments," we are really counting the "armor plates" made of heavy duty chitin called sclerites. These plates are found on the top and bottom of each segment and are held in place by a membrane of more flexible chitin. Some of the plates on the underside, though, have fused together to make the external sex organs (genitalia), and the degree of fusion differs between males and females. Like Rob, I always say six and eight segments, but some anatomists, with better eyes than mine, say seven and nine. It doesn't matter which method you use, though, the female will have fewer "segments" on the underside than the male. Rick has a useful sticky, with pix, that shows this very well.

Just for fun, here: http://research.amnh.org/entomology/social...es/1121/096.jpg is a pic of a honeypot ant. Those black rectangles are the sclerites.


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## major vex (Aug 21, 2009)

A friend at work (animal management lecturer in a FE/HE College) bought a giant asian nymph that was female, reared it up to adult and the first ooth it laid hatched aparrantly and it never saw another mantis in its existance. I had never heard of this before though.


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## massaman (Aug 21, 2009)

guess we can say that the giant asian does have parthenogenesis abilities or could be just a rare occurance or something but from this could be said it can happen!


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## jarek (Aug 21, 2009)

massaman said:


> guess we can say that the giant asian does have parthenogenesis abilities or could be just a rare occurance or something but from this could be said it can happen!


yeah, at first when I was starting the hobby I read somewhere that there may be one to four hatchings from infertile ooht, but the nymphs will be so weak that they won't live past fourth instar


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