# Is my ooth fertile?



## LittleBro859 (Oct 26, 2008)

Hey i've had a wildcaught praying mantis female for about 3 weeks now. I never mated it but i was wondering how long after they mate do they generally lay eggs? Is it possible my eggs are fertile? please yes? lol

Also please give me the optimal care for a chinese praying mantis ooth. I'm pretty excited and really hoping it's fertile. Also first mantis and ooth so I'm not sure exactly what I need to put in the ooth's enclosure or anything. Mist it once a week? or get substrate and moisten the substrate.

Thanks loads for the help.

And as excited as I am i'd like the honest news even if it's infertile.


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## Rick (Oct 26, 2008)

Was this mantis an adult when you found her? If so chances are she was mated and the eggs will be fertile. Those don't take very long to hatch when left indoors so you will find out soon. But to be honest there is not way to know for sure.


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## hibiscusmile (Oct 26, 2008)

Mist it 3 or 4 times a week!


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## LittleBro859 (Oct 26, 2008)

Rick said:


> Was this mantis an adult when you found her? If so chances are she was mated and the eggs will be fertile. Those don't take very long to hatch when left indoors so you will find out soon. But to be honest there is not way to know for sure.


Yes she was an adult when I found her. Thing is there's not that many praying mantis' around here, but I hope to help the population a bit, of course with this native species I have no plans of buying any and releasing them here. Yeah I did some research last night and found out there's no way of knowing lol.

I heard misting once a week. Which one is right? I know I don't want it to get to moist and grow mold on it.

Thanks again for your help.


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## Rick (Oct 26, 2008)

LittleBro said:


> Yes she was an adult when I found her. Thing is there's not that many praying mantis' around here, but I hope to help the population a bit, of course with this native species I have no plans of buying any and releasing them here. Yeah I did some research last night and found out there's no way of knowing lol.I heard misting once a week. Which one is right? I know I don't want it to get to moist and grow mold on it.
> 
> Thanks again for your help.


Good chance she is mated. I mist ooths about twice a week or so.


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## phreeze (Oct 26, 2008)

i have very little knowledge of mantis but from all i have read and understood its about keeping the humidity right. don't get water directly on the ooth, keep a high level of humidity in the enclosure with out getting the ooth its self wet and you'll be fine. the ammount you have to mist will depend on where your ooth is, if your in a humid environment you'll have les to worry about, if its dry, you have heating on lots etc then more frequent misting will be needed. If you hear any one contredicting what i say listen to them over me as my experience is minumal to say the least.


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## tier (Oct 26, 2008)

Hi

You can mist once a week up to once a day. Mold will grow if there is too less fresh air. You can spray the ooth directly. Mold will grow if the ooth is wet constantly. You have to offer fresh air. So if you spray every morning for example, the ooth/enclosure must be dry again the next morning. Than you can mist again. If you mist and the ooth/enclosre is still wet or humid the next morning, you must offer a better fresh air circulation. You can use a small plastic box with A LOT of small holes (make the holes with a needle for example). You can use toilet- or kitchen tissue as a substrate and you can mist this substrate without misting the ooth directly. All will work.

Good luck


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## sidewinder (Oct 26, 2008)

My only concern regarding fertility is that you had the mantid in captivity three weeks before the ootheca was laid. I would expect the ootheca to be laid within 10 days of mating. Of course, it could be the second ootheca for this mantid. But that usually takes about 10 days, assuming your mantid is a Chinese mantis (_Tenodera sinensis_).

Can you describe the size, shape, and texture of the ootheca? Can you post a picture?

Scott


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## Rob Byatt (Oct 27, 2008)

salomonis said:


> My only concern regarding fertility is that you had the mantid in captivity three weeks before the ootheca was laid. I would expect the ootheca to be laid within 10 days of mating. Of course, it could be the second ootheca for this mantid. But that usually takes about 10 days, assuming your mantid is a Chinese mantis (_Tenodera sinensis_).Can you describe the size, shape, and texture of the ootheca? Can you post a picture?
> 
> Scott


It would only lay within 10 days if it had eaten sufficient food. If the mantis was mated before you collected it, then all ootheca it produces should be fertile, even 3 months down the line.

Mating does not induce oviposition.


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## Orin (Oct 27, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


> It would only lay within 10 days if it had eaten sufficient food. If the mantis was mated before you collected it, then all ootheca it produces should be fertile, even 3 months down the line. Mating does not induce oviposition.


True, an ootheca from a wild-caught female will always* be fertile. It still will need to be kept properly for the eggs to hatch of course.

In a number of species the female will delay ootheca production till mating and at that time mating does induce oviposition.


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## LittleBro859 (Oct 27, 2008)

Orin said:


> True, an ootheca from a wild-caught female will always* be fertile. It still will need to be kept properly for the eggs to hatch of course. In a number of species the female will delay ootheca production till mating and at that time mating does induce oviposition.


No pictures sorry I can't seem to find the battery charger for my camera, which poses a problem.

But it's a light greenish color all around, no dark colors as far as I can tell.


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## Rob Byatt (Oct 27, 2008)

Orin said:


> In a number of species the female will delay ootheca production till mating and at that time mating does induce oviposition.


Really ? I don't think I've ever kept a species that has done this; which ones are ou refering to ?


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## sidewinder (Oct 27, 2008)

I have caught several adult female _Tenodera sinensis_ and _Stagmomantis californica_ in my day that never laid a fertile ootheca. Did I catch them just after becoming adults? Maybe. Maybe a male didn't find them. Who knows....but they were not mated.

As I recall, all the _T. sinensis_ I was involved with breeding oviposited within a week of mating. Many oviposited after a few days. It would makes sense, from a biological standpoint, to delay oviposition as long as possible if the female was ready to oviposit but had not mated.

Scott


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## sidewinder (Oct 27, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


> It would only lay within 10 days if it had eaten sufficient food.


Sure. But I was assuming that the mantid had been well fed since it was taken into captivity. That may have been a bad assumption.

Scott


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## Orin (Oct 27, 2008)

Rob Byatt said:


> Really ? I don't think I've ever kept a species that has done this; which ones are ou refering to ?


To some extent, all of them. I imagine if you've bred a number of species that you've noticed females that can't be bred right away often delay ootheca formation by a week or longer and when you mate them late they make the ootheca the very next day (of course they'll still form an infertile ootheca if you don't have a male quick enough). _Phyllovates chlorophaea _ tend to wait an extremely long time before producing infertile oothecae. On the more extreme end I have seen multiple females of _Acanthops falcata _and_ Pseudovates arizonae _in which mated females formed oothecae every three weeks while some unmated females did not form oothecae ever (under identical conditions).


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## LittleBro859 (Oct 27, 2008)

I fed her fairly well. Not extremely well but fairly well. When I first got her she got 11 small crickets and a spider. After that she'd have a large cricket or a spider every day, though I missed one day unfortunately.

Also trying to raise some crickets on my own right now, see how it turns out.


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## kamakiri (Oct 28, 2008)

Orin said:


> In a number of species the female will delay ootheca production till mating and at that time mating does induce oviposition.


Just an example to suport the delay...

I have two _M. religiosa_ females this season that are the same age and are just over two months as adults. They've both been on the same feeding schedule of adult crickets. Only one is mated...that was at 10 days after adulthood. The mated female has laid 3 ooths and is nearly on her 4th. The unmated female has laid two 'half-size' ooths, the first of which was a couple days before the mated female made ooth number 3. The second small, infertile ooth was made on the same day as the fertile ooth number 3.

So in a nutshell, the unmated female took about a month longer to lay an ooth. Just my obsevations...very unscientific.


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## Rick (Oct 28, 2008)

It is not 100% for sure it will be fertile but the chances are PRETTY GOOD. I have never seen mating have anything to do with when the ooth is laid. There is not way to tell if an ooth is fertile just by looking at it.


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## sidewinder (Nov 3, 2008)

I found a reference supporting the idea that successful mating can trigger ootheca oviposition. In _The Praying Mantids_ on page 315 in the chapter titled _Rearing and Breeding Mantids_, I found this text:

"Since females often lay unfertilized eggcases, it is impossible to know until long after the fact if a matting attempt has actually been successful. However, eggs laid within two days after a mating attempt usually indicate a completed copulation."

The text doesn't say how common this occurrence is, but the fact that it was mentioned at all indicates it happens at least sometimes. This chapter is by Dr. David Yager and he states later on page 315 that they have raised approximately 70 species in his lab.

Scott


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