# headless mating



## AmandaLynn (Oct 7, 2009)

Last night I attempted to mate my ghosts for the third time. The first attempt at mating they connected, disconnected, then reconnected. They were together for about four hours. The second attempt didn't go so well they were together for about 24 hours before the male jumped off without ever connecting. Last night I put them together again. When I checked on them this morning they were together but not connected, and again this afternoon they hadn't moved, so finally I decided to chop off his head, thinking this would induce the inspiration to mate that he was lacking. He's been headless for over an hour now and still nothing.


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## sbugir (Oct 7, 2009)

, shove it in there?


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## AmandaLynn (Oct 7, 2009)

She's eating him now so, I guess it's not a total waste. This sucks. I wish I hadn't done that. &lt;_&lt;


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## Emile.Wilson (Oct 7, 2009)

Lame  , hopefully you got some more males.


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## sbugir (Oct 7, 2009)

, in your first post you said they connected, dis, connected? My Chinese mantids have done this a few times and all of their ooths so far have been fertile (i cut one open after the incident  ). Obviously Chinese mantids are not even close to the span of a Ghost mantid, but I'm sure it is possible she is fertile. I've heard mating (various breeds) can take from 15 minutes-days. Anyway, I wish the best of luck to you, and sorry for the loss. I've always wanted Ghosties, they're so cute  .


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## Emile.Wilson (Oct 7, 2009)

ooh, yeah she could be fertile, my eyes are not working today


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## hibiscusmile (Oct 7, 2009)

I'm sorry you cut his head off too, that is no guarantee they will mate, the ghost take a long time to do so and now his little life has ended for nothing  you could of just left them alone and if she then ate him, then at least they had a chance.


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## PhilinYuma (Oct 8, 2009)

No good crying over spilled milk though. You did what you thought was best. I do think it quite likely, though, that they mated successfully on the first try. I hope so. Let us know!


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## Rick (Oct 8, 2009)

You screwed that one up. That is no way to get them to mate. I have done it twice but it was when the female had already chewed his head off and he was already in position and I just guided his abdomen to touch hers. In the future this technique shouldn't be used. You said they connected for four hours, well that is probably good enough.


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## Katnapper (Oct 8, 2009)

Egads and yikes!  : I think this technique is best used as a very last resort, if at all. Patience and trying multiple times are the best bets, I believe. As you have seen, this method is not always a success or the answer. And because they had already connected previously for 4 hours, I feel the beheading was overkill (pardon the pun), and totally unnecessary. Having and keeping males alive is a vital strategy for successful mating, so you don't want to intentionally behead them just because they have been known to mate afterward. Keeping them alive to mate is the goal. Hopefully a lesson is learned here.


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## ismart (Oct 8, 2009)

Sometimes a little bit of patience is best.


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## Ntsees (Oct 8, 2009)

Yeap, Katnapper says it all (except I don't use that "last resort"). For me, then mating fails, the male just goes back into his container for more feeding and sunlight warmth before I attempt the mating again a few days later.


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## kamakiri (Oct 8, 2009)

Well, before another person scolds AmandaLynn...I was considering doing the *same thing *for my 2nd female, after the first was already mated. The only thing that really prevented me from doing that was eliminating the possibility to have Liana (1st female) re-mated in the future.

To AmandaLynn: I'm curious if she may be fertile, but not laid yet...or possibly did not have enough to eat?


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## Rick (Oct 8, 2009)

kamakiri said:


> To AmandaLynn: I'm curious if she may be fertile, but not laid yet...or possibly did not have enough to eat?


What are you getting at with the eating part? Is that in reference to laying an ooth? She never mentioned anything about it.


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## kamakiri (Oct 8, 2009)

Rick said:


> What are you getting at with the eating part? Is that in reference to laying an ooth? She never mentioned anything about it.


My understanding is that this pair has been mated already and that the first time was for 4 to 5 hours connected. I don't really see the need to re-mate this pair unless she hasn't laid. And that perhaps she didn't lay due to lack of food, well, aside from the male she ate! :lol:


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## Rick (Oct 8, 2009)

kamakiri said:


> My understanding is that this pair has been mated already and that the first time was for 4 to 5 hours connected. I don't really see the need to re-mate this pair unless she hasn't laid. And that perhaps she didn't lay due to lack of food, well, aside from the male she ate! :lol:


I agree but mating has nothing to do with when they will make an ooth.


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## kamakiri (Oct 8, 2009)

Rick said:


> I agree but mating has nothing to do with when they will make an ooth.


I generally agree, but I suspect it is different for ghosts. I've mentioned earlier that I have only raised two ghost females from ooth to adult, so my experience is limited. Both were well fed and unmated for nearly two months (I think it was more for BatGirl) but there were no ooths between the two. Once mated, Liana laid after 6 days and produced 2nd and 3rd ooths after 5 and 6 day intervals. BatGirl just made her first ooth 5 days after mating. It is my hypothesis that ghosts may use mating or availability of sperm to start oogenesis - required for ooth making. Conversely, I am guessing that they will have run out of sperm once they break the 5 or 6 day cycle. A cycle that they seem to hold because they are also well fed.


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## AmandaLynn (Oct 8, 2009)

She hasn't laid an ooth yet, and she doesn't eat much either. It's not due to lack of food though. I feed her plenty but she just doesn't eat much. She kills everything and eats a little, then tosses it aside. The majority of her diet is bluebottles and crickets. I thought maybe she wasn't getting enough variety, so I've been giving her other things like honey bees, and moths but it doesn't seem to make a difference. Yesterday when she ate the male was the most she's eaten all at once in weeks. She isn't thin, just not bulking up like I would expect a female that is getting ready to lay an ooth would be. I don't know if the first mating was really a success. I'll just have to wait and see. I have one other male so there is still the possibility for some offspring if the first mating didn't work out.


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## kamakiri (Oct 9, 2009)

AmandaLynn said:


> She hasn't laid an ooth yet, and she doesn't eat much either. It's not due to lack of food though. I feed her plenty but she just doesn't eat much. She kills everything and eats a little, then tosses it aside. The majority of her diet is bluebottles and crickets. I thought maybe she wasn't getting enough variety, so I've been giving her other things like honey bees, and moths but it doesn't seem to make a difference. Yesterday when she ate the male was the most she's eaten all at once in weeks. She isn't thin, just not bulking up like I would expect a female that is getting ready to lay an ooth would be. I don't know if the first mating was really a success. I'll just have to wait and see. I have one other male so there is still the possibility for some offspring if the first mating didn't work out.


Strange, but ghosts do seem a little finicky to me. I'm surprised I've raised these two on mainly crickets since they started with fruit flies. Mine did get pretty fat even before mating. Maybe you should try another food?


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## hibiscusmile (Oct 9, 2009)

I would then think she needs more water, that is what most mantis do when looking for a drink, they take food and then do not finish it, give her a couple of drinks a day, ghost seem to need it more.


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## AmandaLynn (Oct 10, 2009)

hibiscusmile said:


> I would then think she needs more water, that is what most mantis do when looking for a drink, they take food and then do not finish it, give her a couple of drinks a day, ghost seem to need it more.


That's interesting, I'd never noticed that. She gets plenty of water though so I don't think that's what it is. I just got a heater today to put in the 'mantis room'. It's usually between 70-75 in my house so hopefully an increase in temp. will boost her metabolism and get her to eat more and lay some ooths. I shall see.


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