# Molting failure



## Greenmanbacchus (Jun 28, 2007)

Hey everyone  

I've got a subadult _Mantis religiosa_ that wandered in a few weeks ago as a tiny nymph. It has molted without incident several times.

Today, when I got home from work, it had molted again...tremendous size increase, and both back legs still encased in the old cuticle for three quarters of their length. it was already pretty dry and the back legs distorted. I soaked its back legs and softend up the cuticle, slid it right off...but those legs are still twisted. I figure it wont be long til another molt, but will it be able to molt successfully with those bent legs?

Now that he's gotten so big, I'll transfer him to a bigger container, so that shouldn't be a molting issue. With tarantulas, deliberately removing a leg or two ( autotomy) is sometimes the drastic step needful to prevent another stuck molt. Is this done with mantises? It is currently

a head and body length of 4.5 cm (1 3/4 inches ) so surely another molt or two is upcoming. It is resting comfortably right now and I'm not seeing the need to do anything but wait for it to harden up. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them please  

Thanks!

GMB


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## Asa (Jun 28, 2007)

To not impede the mantis, it would be a good idea to snip off part of the legs. I'm not quite sure how well it would be able to molt.


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## OGIGA (Jun 28, 2007)

I've seen mantises "fix" their bent legs after another molt. It really works. However, if those bent legs are really keeping the mantis from hanging or feeding, snipping them may be the better choice.


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## Kriss (Jun 29, 2007)

I would not recomend cutting your mantid. :?

Cutting any area of the leg might cause infection and do alot more harm than good.

If you are hoping that your mantids defects will be fixed through consecutive molts then cutting any area of the leg off will not help the situation and only prove to slow the process.

The back legs of the mantid are deffinetly used as part of the molting process and the mantid may find it very difficult to molt now the are disformed. Its ability to hang securly is reduced. Only time will tell, but from my own experience when mismolts occur that disform the back legs to the extent that the mantid can not hang using them they do not survive the next molt.

If your mantid only molted today you have a few weeks to wait until the next molt - maybe two or three. Good luck.


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## Asa (Jun 29, 2007)

If you snip it at the segment of their leg, it will not cause infection. If the legs are deformed, then he would not be able to hang at all.


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## Kriss (Jun 29, 2007)

Interesting.

Why does it make a diff if you cut at the joint? How does that prevent infection? Thanks.


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## Asa (Jun 29, 2007)

The mantids body does not behave like ours, each part behaves as a seperate part, a segment of a arm would not necessarily have anything to do with another segment. One reason you can see a mantid biting off its own body parts is because by biting off a segment, it can stop it from spreading. A human body would not be able to do that. Welcome


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## Kriss (Jun 29, 2007)

Thanks Asa.


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## Greenmanbacchus (Jun 30, 2007)

> To not impede the mantis, it would be a good idea to snip off part of the legs. I'm not quite sure how well it would be able to molt.


 Thanks Asa...The mantis has been snipped. I gave her 36 hours to continue hardening up ( she was still quite pale when I posted) and I've just fed her a small cricket, taken readily. She hangs much better withoutthe deformed legs and appears to be doing well  I wonder how many molts it may take to regain full size legs?


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## Greenmanbacchus (Jun 30, 2007)

> I've seen mantises "fix" their bent legs after another molt. It really works. However, if those bent legs are really keeping the mantis from hanging or feeding, snipping them may be the better choice.


 Snipping was definitely in order I'm afraid, the legs were too deformed to hang properly. Thank you for your feedback! I appreciate all the help I can get


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## Greenmanbacchus (Jun 30, 2007)

> I would not recomend cutting your mantid. :? Cutting any area of the leg might cause infection and do alot more harm than good.
> 
> If you are hoping that your mantids defects will be fixed through consecutive molts then cutting any area of the leg off will not help the situation and only prove to slow the process. Thanks Kriss! I don't think she would have managed another molt with her legs in the condition they were in or I'd have left them as they were. As you say, time will tell and we'll hope for the best. Thank you very much for taking the time to respond for me  I appreciate it.
> 
> ...


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## Asa (Jun 30, 2007)

> > To not impede the mantis, it would be a good idea to snip off part of the legs. I'm not quite sure how well it would be able to molt.
> 
> 
> Thanks Asa...The mantis has been snipped. I gave her 36 hours to continue hardening up ( she was still quite pale when I posted) and I've just fed her a small cricket, taken readily. She hangs much better withoutthe deformed legs and appears to be doing well  I wonder how many molts it may take to regain full size legs?


She will never get full sized legs if she is a subadult. It usually takes about 4-5 molts. She may get 'midget' legs, but that's it.


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## Greenmanbacchus (Jun 30, 2007)

> > > To not impede the mantis, it would be a good idea to snip off part of the legs. I'm not quite sure how well it would be able to molt.
> >
> >
> > Thanks Asa...The mantis has been snipped. I gave her 36 hours to continue hardening up ( she was still quite pale when I posted) and I've just fed her a small cricket, taken readily. She hangs much better withoutthe deformed legs and appears to be doing well  I wonder how many molts it may take to regain full size legs?
> ...


Oh dear...Oh, well, she's not needing to run down prey or outrun predators. 'Subadult' is a term I used rather loosely, considering how little I know. I just had her out and measured her very carefully. Full head and body length is 1.75 inches. ( 4.5 cm ) What do you think? Thanks again for taking the time for me


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## Asa (Jun 30, 2007)

Not sure. Do you know how many molts she went through, when you got her?


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## Greenmanbacchus (Jun 30, 2007)

> Not sure. Do you know how many molts she went through, when you got her?


She was maybe half an inch when I got her and this is her second molt since then. I think earlier I had said 'several' molts, but it's only been one and now this failed one. ( _Everything_ is molting here this month. Just 2 since I've had her. I don't know offhand but I'm gonna say I've had her three weeks. She probably molted a week after she came here and then this failed one two weeks later


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## Asa (Jun 30, 2007)

Does she have wing buds appearing? If not, she's only a sub-sub adult or lower. She may get to nearly her full length after all.


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## Greenmanbacchus (Jun 30, 2007)

> Does she have wing buds appearing? If not, she's only a sub-sub adult or lower. She may get to nearly her full length after all.


 Well...I looked and it looks to me like she does have wing buds  Well...maybe if I feed her a lot......we'll just hope for the best, I guess.

After all, she's not going to have any trouble getting around. She's not having any trouble getting around now, for that matter LOL Thanks Asa


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## Asa (Jun 30, 2007)

Welcome, I hope she gets her legs back!


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## colddigger (Jun 30, 2007)

hehhehh

sub sub adult

sub sub sub adult

and beyond

yeah, isn't it something like with the crab, if a leg is broken at the joint it gets a seal on it? while if you cut it on a segment blood is attempted to continue being pumped to the phantom foot?something like that i think...


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