# Tanzanian Mystery Mantis



## Digger (Sep 5, 2014)

L2 species ostensibly for the Tanzania region. Has anyone seen one of these ? His name is Namiki. Very fierce, indeed. Even though just an L2, he gave the back of my hand a nip yesterday and it felt like a bee sting! And (get this) - he drew blood !


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## hibiscusmile (Sep 6, 2014)

chinese?


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## Rick (Sep 6, 2014)

hibiscusmile said:


> chinese?


Most definitely not, lacks the facial striping.


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## Domanating (Sep 6, 2014)

All bets on Religiosa

Edit:

This old pic is the best comparison I've got. I'm not sure if these are L2 but should be between L2-L4.

White and darker stripes along the edges of the thorax, white stripe along its head and eyes, forearms with small black dots... Yup, I'll go Religiosa. Mine are a little paler, though


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## Digger (Sep 6, 2014)

Definitely not Chinese. Also, compound eye physiology completely different from T. sinensis. Also - although Mantis Religiosa can be found in Africa, it's northern Africa, not sub Saharan (central latitudes).


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## Domanating (Sep 6, 2014)

According to Wiki:

"


_Mantis religiosa eichleri_ found in Ethiopia, Mauritania, Niokolo-Koba, Ghana, Cameroon, Kenya, Congo, Niger, Senegal, Somalia, Sudan, *Tanzania*, Togo, Zimbabwe, Burkina Faso, Zambia and Anatolia"


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## Gill (Sep 6, 2014)

The shield seems the wrong shape for _Mantis religiosa_


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## Digger (Sep 6, 2014)

Thanks Dom. I stand corrected. But Gill, I'm in your camp so far. I will have to get you guys better photographs and physical descriptions to help narrow this mystery down.


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## Domanating (Sep 6, 2014)

Well, let him molt and we'll see what it is after all


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## Digger (Sep 6, 2014)

That takes the mystery out of it Dom. Plus - he's only L2.


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## Mantis Man13 (Sep 6, 2014)

This is a good mystery!


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## Digger (Sep 6, 2014)

The friend from whom I got the nymph said the ootheca was not Mantis religiosa.


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## Crazy4mantis (Sep 7, 2014)

let's see what he grows up to be!


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## MantidLord (Sep 7, 2014)

Can they send a pic of the ooth?


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## Digger (Sep 7, 2014)

Yes, ML. He's sending it over tomorrow. I'll post it then. Should add some clues. This isn't a game - I really do not know the ID of this sp.


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## Vlodek (Sep 9, 2014)

Hello Digger,

It's most likely Ischnomantis fatiloqua. That's what my nymphs look like.


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## Digger (Sep 9, 2014)

That would be terrific, Wlodek. I'll need to rent an aircraft hangar.


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## Carter (Sep 9, 2014)

It is Mantis religiosa, no doubt and yes they are very common in Africa and quite variable in size and body proportions. The religiosa's from Congo are the largest, but only certain populations.


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## MantidLord (Sep 9, 2014)

Carter, would the ooths look different across subspecies or geographic location? Unless the ooth his particular specimen hatched from was "deformed", it should look like a typical euro ooth.


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## Digger (Sep 9, 2014)

Hey guys. My friend sent over a picture of the ootheca from which this nymph was hatched. There is no doubt this is not a Mantis religiosa ooth.


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## MantidLord (Sep 10, 2014)

Really? Looks pretty M. religiosa like to me...


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## Domanating (Sep 10, 2014)

MantidLord said:


> Really? Looks pretty M. religiosa like to me...


I'll have to agree. I had Religiosas laying some very weirdly shaped ooths and that one looks pretty good.


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## soundspawn (Sep 10, 2014)

MantidLord said:


> Really? Looks pretty M. religiosa like to me...


Yea I'm jumping on the bandwagon. I saw the picture and instantly thought "oh M. religiosa" then read you think it's certainly not and realized one of us is very wrong.

I'm sticking to my guns, religiosa all the way. In another instar or so you should be able to see the signature bicep tattoos, if you can't already.


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## mantisman 230 (Sep 10, 2014)

I will have to agree with them, they look to be religiosa, as nymphs, and the ooth.


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## Domanating (Sep 10, 2014)

soundspawn said:


> In another instar or so you should be able to see the signature bicep tattoos, if you can't already.


The black marks under the forearms are only visible once it reaches L5 so it might take a while.


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## soundspawn (Sep 10, 2014)

Domanating said:


> The black marks under the forearms are only visible once it reaches L5 so it might take a while.


I had Europeans as young as L3 with the marks. I can show you an L4 with them today (same guys, they molted over the weekend). I'm pretty sure every Euro I've ever had was L3 when the markings appeared but I didn't pay much attention to it so I'm a little fuzzy on if there were exceptions that young.


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## Domanating (Sep 10, 2014)

soundspawn said:


> I had Europeans as young as L3 with the marks. I can show you an L4 with them today (same guys, they molted over the weekend). I'm pretty sure every Euro I've ever had was L3 when the markings appeared but I didn't pay much attention to it so I'm a little fuzzy on if there were exceptions that young.


Interesting, I never had a Religiosa having their marks prior to L5

Here's my only L5 showing the black marks for the first time


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## Digger (Sep 10, 2014)

Ok guys. I'm putting $1000 of Monopoly money on the table that this is *not* M. religiosa.

Here is an adult female M. religiosa placed next to the Mystery Mantis ootheca. It's a far stretch to believe these girls could produce an ooth of this comparative mass.


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## Domanating (Sep 10, 2014)

Oh wow, geez that's huge!

In the first pic there was no possible way to tell the size. Well then, I have nothing further to say XD


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## SkittishMale (Sep 10, 2014)

The body shape looks like M. religiosa to me. Out of the experience I've had with raising M. religiosa, I am almost certain that this is what it is.

What I see is odd though is that the black eyespot on the inner side of the foreleg appears to be absent in the first photo. It would be unusual for M. religiosa to lack the eyespots because every individual I've seen had an eyespot whether or not it was black with a white center or just solid black.

Mind you that I've only seen them in the wild in Ontario, Canada so I do not know what differences they may have in other parts of their range in different parts of the world.


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## MantidLord (Sep 10, 2014)

Hmm...that ooth size is troubling...unless the African sub species are gigantic...I'm retracting my opinion that it's M religiosa.


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## Domanating (Sep 10, 2014)

SkittishMale said:


> What I see is odd though is that the black eyespot on the inner side of the foreleg appears to be absent in the first photo. It would be unusual for M. religiosa to lack the eyespots because every individual I've seen had an eyespot whether or not it was black with a white center or just solid black.


As Soundspawn and I mentioned above, young Religiosas do not have the black marks yet. I have only seen them getting those when they reach L5 but it appears they can have them at an earlier instar too.

Edit:

I do however failed to acknowledge that the mystery mantis is L2 and if you look at the pic I posted in the 1st page of two L2 Religiosas, the sizes and proportions don't match at all. The difference in head size compared to the elongated thorax is a pretty obvious discrepancy.

The mystery mantis has closer proportions to a L5 or L4 Religiosa. So big ooth, big L2 nymph. So clearly not Religiosa after all.

Even though Digger mentioned again and again that it was a L2 nymph I still failed to realize that for some reason, lol


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## soundspawn (Sep 10, 2014)

Domanating said:


> Interesting, I never had a Religiosa having their marks prior to L5


Here I previously took pictures of four different L4 M. Religiosa, from two different oothecae: http://soundspawn.com/browser.php?p=l4_euro


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## Domanating (Sep 12, 2014)

soundspawn said:


> Here I previously took pictures of four different L4 M. Religiosa, from two different oothecae: http://soundspawn.com/browser.php?p=l4_euro


Would it possible that these early black marks show because they skip molts? I never kept a Religiosa skipping one but some claim it happens.


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## happy1892 (Sep 12, 2014)

Another species in the genus Mantis?


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## soundspawn (Sep 12, 2014)

Domanating said:


> Would it possible that these early black marks show because they skip molts? I never kept a Religiosa skipping one but some claim it happens.


Only if every European I had skipped a molt from different ooths at different times... so I doubt it. Oh and several are adult now so I have the whole molt history with no "missing instar"


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## Carter (Sep 16, 2014)

The size comparison between the ooth and the adult religiosa is indeed raising some eybrows here..

African religiosa's are not always bigger than their European counterpart, some are actually smaller. The variation in size and body proportions is however quite spectacular, I'll see if I can find one of my old pictures again from museum specimen collected in central Africa.

Unless your friend is pranking you that ooth seemed to be laid by something the size of a Plistospilota.


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## happy1892 (Sep 16, 2014)

We need Dracus.



Vlodek said:


> Hello Digger,
> It's most likely Ischnomantis fatiloqua. That's what my nymphs look like.


As Vlodek says, maybe something like a Ischnomantis. Do you have any pictures?

http://mantodea.speciesfile.org/Common/basic/Taxa.aspx?TaxonNameID=1184500

A skinny Solygia (Do not know what Solygia means in Latin or Greek) makes a thick ooth.  agentA posted photos:

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=29198&amp;hl=solygia

But this mantis in the photo does not look colossus maybe because it is one of the smaller species (on bugguide the Ischnomantis gigas is 17cm long. Scientific name = "slender mantis" "giant" I think):

http://www.ispot.org.za/node/192866


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## mantiseater (Oct 25, 2014)

anything new?


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## Digger (Oct 25, 2014)

Nothing in particular. He/she molted flawlessly on October 17. About 2.5 inches long @ L6. Gonna be a growth spurt like a teenager next two molts.


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## MantidLord (Oct 26, 2014)

can you post a pic? I assume it doesn't have the eyespots, right?


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## Digger (Oct 26, 2014)

Lord,

I'll try to do that today. He had an enormous meal last night and is filled out more than usual. Most concur this is an Ischnomantis.sp.

BTW - your avatar never fails to really creep me out !


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## SkittishMale (Oct 27, 2014)

Most M. religiosa i've had sported the eyespots on the inner coxae of the forelegs before L5.

There might be a possibility it could be a different species belonging to that genus.


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## MantidLord (Oct 27, 2014)

Mmm okay. I have no experience with Ischnomantis.sp, just seen lots of pics. But it would make sense if that's what it is. Especially if their ooths look like that. Good job raising him so far. 

And yeah, lol it's a still from Alice in Chains' "Man in the box" music video.


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## mantiseater (Nov 2, 2014)

any pics?


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## dmina (Nov 2, 2014)

Yes... an update please... Inquiring mind need to know...


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## massaman (Nov 10, 2014)

looks like a religiosa eichleri to me as I have 3 that looked like that and now are all adults and they are 2 females and a male!


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## happy1892 (Nov 10, 2014)

massaman said:


> looks like a religiosa eichleri to me as I have 3 that looked like that and now are all adults and they are 2 females and a male!


You have eichleri?


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## massaman (Nov 10, 2014)

yeah two females and a male


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## happy1892 (Nov 11, 2014)

Are your Mantis religiosa eichleri smaller than Mantis religiosa religiosa?


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## massaman (Nov 11, 2014)

could also be a budwing ooth they are big as well


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## massaman (Nov 11, 2014)

they are the same size I think but colors are different though


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## MantidLord (Nov 14, 2014)

Any real difference between the subspecies?


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## massaman (Nov 14, 2014)

not really besides the color difference they are all three tanish and 2 of them act way different then the third as two of them hang out on the bottom of the critter keeper like they are in stalking mode or such and the other one is on some of the branches in the tank and does not act like the other 2


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## happy1892 (Nov 15, 2014)

Can you show pictures massaman?


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## happy1892 (Nov 17, 2014)

Just incase nobody knows this, the pictures of Mantis religiosa from ispot might be the eichleri subspecies unless there is another subspecies of M. religiosa in Africa? Is there another?

http://www.ispot.org.za/search/node/mantis%20religiosa


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## dmina (Nov 18, 2014)

We Want Pics ... Please ... someone ..


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## mantiseater (Dec 8, 2014)

what happened?


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