# Bad molting - Mantis seems crippled



## Marianna (Feb 28, 2011)

I'm new at this, but willing to do what it takes. Mantis look like it fell during 4th molt and antenna, legs, front legs all stuck. Could not move. I tried to separate legs and antennas, and now he moves but looks like front legs can't grab, and back legs are not working right - part of legs seem to be missing. So.... now he can't eat live bugs. What can I do? Is there hope in the next molt if he makes it? What can I feed him? I tried moist dog food which he took last night, but didn't seem too eager this morning. I am lost! Could someone suggest something asap? Thanks so much!


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## Ntsees (Feb 28, 2011)

Other forum members have asked this same question. Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do about it now. If it cannot hang by itself, it won't make it to the next instar stage. You can hand feed it and it will probably survive, but once it's time to molt again, that's where it'll be over. Best to not waste your time on it and start with another mantid.


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## Marianna (Feb 28, 2011)

Ntsees said:


> Other forum members have asked this same question. Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do about it now. If it cannot hang by itself, it won't make it to the next instar stage. You can hand feed it and it will probably survive, but once it's time to molt again, that's where it'll be over. Best to not waste your time on it and start with another mantid.


Thank you so much for getting back to me. First question, what SHOULD I have done in this situation? And the harder question, what is the best way to not make this little guy suffer anymore?


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## Krissim Klaw (Feb 28, 2011)

Sounds like you might want to check your humidity if he got stuck in his skin.

After the fact there isn't much you can do other than trying to help the mantis out, which is what you did. If the skins still soft during when you catch them having problems, sometimes a little moisture via spray bottle can help coax it off but I have a feeling by your description it had already dried too much for that to have helped.

Without seeing the mantis I can't say what the odds are of a successful next molt. Can he hang on the walls of his enclosure at all? As for hand feeding, crickets work well. You will want to rip the cricket slightly open so you get some of the juices and place those near the mantises mandibles. Most will readily eat once they get a bit of the taste.

If he will eat easily for you I might give him a couple days to see if there are any improvements in his mobility as he adjusts to his body. Personally, even if it looked like there was little chance of a proper shedding, if I had a mantis that would easily hand feed and otherwise seemed content I would not consider it a waste of my time to hand feed them. A few more weeks is still a few more weeks.

If you decide however you do want to euthanize him, the preferred method in the hobby seems to be to stick them in the freezer.


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## Marianna (Feb 28, 2011)

Krissim Klaw said:


> Sounds like you might want to check your humidity if he got stuck in his skin.
> 
> After the fact there isn't much you can do other than trying to help the mantis out, which is what you did. If the skins still soft during when you catch them having problems, sometimes a little moisture via spray bottle can help coax it off but I have a feeling by your description it had already dried too much for that to have helped.
> 
> ...


He can't walk, he can't hang. And to think this might be my fault (low humidity) makes me sick to my stomach.  I really appreciate your response.


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## dgerndt (Feb 28, 2011)

Marianna said:


> He can't walk, he can't hang. And to think this might be my fault (low humidity) makes me sick to my stomach.  I really appreciate your response.


It's all right; we've all had this experience at least once. This is the reason mantids have so many babies, and why we purchase more than one nymph.

I have a mantis that had fallen during a molt and one of his back legs popped off, and his other was crippled. He could barely catch food or hang and climb. So every day I poked a fruit fly onto the end of a needle and hand fed him. He was so hard to hand feed because he was so timid, but my love for him kept me going. It took about a month, but he molted perfectly and got his whole leg grew back (it was smaller, but still functional). So don't give up hope on every mantis that has a mismolt. They're tough bugs.

But if he is past your help, the freezer is the most humane method (in my opinion). That's how most mantids pass away in the wild. They go with the first real frost.


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## Rick (Mar 1, 2011)

In that case I normally put the mantis in the freezer for about an hour to put it down. There is nothing you can do to fix it and if the mantis can't molt again it will not survive.


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## Marianna (Mar 1, 2011)

Deby said:


> It's all right; we've all had this experience at least once. This is the reason mantids have so many babies, and why we purchase more than one nymph.
> 
> I have a mantis that had fallen during a molt and one of his back legs popped off, and his other was crippled. He could barely catch food or hang and climb. So every day I poked a fruit fly onto the end of a needle and hand fed him. He was so hard to hand feed because he was so timid, but my love for him kept me going. It took about a month, but he molted perfectly and got his whole leg grew back (it was smaller, but still functional). So don't give up hope on every mantis that has a mismolt. They're tough bugs.
> 
> But if he is past your help, the freezer is the most humane method (in my opinion). That's how most mantids pass away in the wild. They go with the first real frost.


Thanks so much for your response. That a great suggestion re: the fruit flies. At least I know he won't be hungry. Your note gave me hope, but I don't think he can "hang" at all.... I know what I have to do, but I want to prolong it as long as possible. Thanks again!


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## Marianna (Mar 1, 2011)

Krissim Klaw said:


> Sounds like you might want to check your humidity if he got stuck in his skin.
> 
> After the fact there isn't much you can do other than trying to help the mantis out, which is what you did. If the skins still soft during when you catch them having problems, sometimes a little moisture via spray bottle can help coax it off but I have a feeling by your description it had already dried too much for that to have helped.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response.... what a great community of people who really care for this beautiful creatures! And thanks for your insight, it was very useful.


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## dgerndt (Mar 1, 2011)

You're welcome. I love my little mantids. They're my babies.  I do have a few that need a good new home, though. If you're interested, you can have them for free. Just pay about $10 shipping.


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## Marianna (Mar 2, 2011)

Deby said:


> You're welcome. I love my little mantids. They're my babies.  I do have a few that need a good new home, though. If you're interested, you can have them for free. Just pay about $10 shipping.


Deby, Just wanted to let you know my little mantid is still thriving, and slightly improving. I have been feeding him fruit flies anyway I can catch them (not sure how many he should eat in a day, but this morning he ate 3). He still has trouble walking but every once in a while I'll catch him standing up on a little screen in his container. He is not shy about eating from a pinhead or tweezers which helps. I'm taking this day by day. I just have to tell you how much it meant to me that you would even offer me one of your "babies"!!!! What a compliment! Right now, whenever I am not working, doing church activities or sleeping, I am keeping an eye on my little guy. My husband even commented that he's been replaced by a bug! I really thank you for how encouraging your note was that you would trust me with one of yours!!!! Thanks so much!


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## dgerndt (Mar 2, 2011)

It's no problem at all! We're all a big bug-loving family here, and we gotta take care of each other.  I'm glad to hear your little guy is doing well. Humidity in my house is often very low, so it's hard for me to keep my mantids at the proper level. As a result, I've had some mismolts. But with some good old fashioned TLC, they made it through.  

Here are a few pictures of my little crippled guys (and girl):

This is Kyle. He made it to another molt, then got eaten by a kitty.  







This is Romanesco. He's molted perfectly twice after this and he looks like a perfect little guy.






And this is Manny, my first mantis. She lost a foot and part of her back leg and got black spots on her eyes. She lived to lay an ooth for me.


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## Marianna (Mar 3, 2011)

Deby said:


> It's no problem at all! We're all a big bug-loving family here, and we gotta take care of each other.  I'm glad to hear your little guy is doing well. Humidity in my house is often very low, so it's hard for me to keep my mantids at the proper level. As a result, I've had some mismolts. But with some good old fashioned TLC, they made it through.
> 
> Here are a few pictures of my little crippled guys (and girl):
> 
> ...


First of all... I loved your pictures - great camera &amp; amazing little models! Second of all, I'm still learning my way around this forum, so if I don't reply, it's only cause I got lost.  And third, let me ask your opinion - do you think we can help them molt? You've been such a help, thanks!


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## Marianna (Mar 3, 2011)

Deby said:


> It's no problem at all! We're all a big bug-loving family here, and we gotta take care of each other.  I'm glad to hear your little guy is doing well. Humidity in my house is often very low, so it's hard for me to keep my mantids at the proper level. As a result, I've had some mismolts. But with some good old fashioned TLC, they made it through.
> 
> Here are a few pictures of my little crippled guys (and girl):
> 
> ...


First of all... I loved your pictures - great camera &amp; amazing little models! Second of all, I'm still learning my way around this forum, so if I don't reply, it's only cause I got lost.  And third, let me ask your opinion - do you think we can help them molt? You've been such a help, thanks!


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## dgerndt (Mar 4, 2011)

Thank you!  It took a lot of pictures to get a few good ones.

I've had to help a few of my mantids because they've fallen or gotten stuck. What I usually do is get some tweezers and hold onto a back leg until they finish molting. Sometimes it's possible to gently remove the skin, but first you should spray a light mist of warm water on the mantis. Some people will even get a tiny bit of hot glue and stick a leg to it so they don't have to hold them. It sometimes sacrifices a foot or bends a leg, but at least your mantis is alive.

Might I suggest taking a picture of your mantis and uploading it so we can see? We could give better advice if we know exactly what condition your mantis is in.


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## Marianna (Mar 4, 2011)

Deby said:


> Thank you!  It took a lot of pictures to get a few good ones.
> 
> I've had to help a few of my mantids because they've fallen or gotten stuck. What I usually do is get some tweezers and hold onto a back leg until they finish molting. Sometimes it's possible to gently remove the skin, but first you should spray a light mist of warm water on the mantis. Some people will even get a tiny bit of hot glue and stick a leg to it so they don't have to hold them. It sometimes sacrifices a foot or bends a leg, but at least your mantis is alive.
> 
> Might I suggest taking a picture of your mantis and uploading it so we can see? We could give better advice if we know exactly what condition your mantis is in.


I want to keep on top of this and have been reading looking for the "warning" signs of an upcoming molt. I'm going to keep your suggestions right by his container.... cause I'll get nervous as if I'm having a baby or something.  I tried to take a picture, and it seems to have trouble focusing on something so little! Maybe I need to borrow a camera! I just asked someone at work.... and i think they helped me.... so we'll see!


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## Marianna (Mar 5, 2011)

Here are some picts that I took of my little Hans Solo (since he was the only one who survived!). 3 of his backlegs don't work properly and he can not grasp.... but I still have hope. He's dining on a cricket (I truly think they open their mouths &amp; scream when they see me coming with that knife!. UGH. HOpefully the picture come out.

OK.. PICTURE DID NOT MAKE IT. Hmmm.... i'm about as clueless with this as I was a few weeks ago about Mantids.


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## dgerndt (Mar 5, 2011)

Try to look for a "macro" or "flower" setting on your camera. Also, do NOT use the zoom. Usually it just makes the picture blur. Just try to have a lot of light and focus your mantis into the very center of the picture. I had to fiddle around with my camera for a long time before I got the hang of it.


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## Marianna (Mar 5, 2011)

Deby said:


> Try to look for a "macro" or "flower" setting on your camera. Also, do NOT use the zoom. Usually it just makes the picture blur. Just try to have a lot of light and focus your mantis into the very center of the picture. I had to fiddle around with my camera for a long time before I got the hang of it.


The "flower" setting worked.... at least on my end. I have the pictures on My Pictures folder, and have tried about 100x (ok, maybe not 100x) to try to send them, but the system keeps saying no file. I give up. Today I fed him a mealworm.... it wiggled so much, it scared the mantid! My husband cut it in half, and while he was happily eating one end, the other end was crawling around. This has to be where sci-fi was created from!!!


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## dgerndt (Mar 7, 2011)

Have you tried creating a Photobucket.com account and uploading the pictures to that site?


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## Marianna (Mar 7, 2011)

Deby said:


> Have you tried creating a Photobucket.com account and uploading the pictures to that site?


Young lady, what DON'T YOU KNOW?  I'll try it....


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## hibiscusmile (Mar 7, 2011)

:lol: at this rate Deby, it will be easier for me to pick up up in car and drive over to see her! :lol:


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## Marianna (Mar 8, 2011)

hibiscusmile said:


> :lol: at this rate Deby, it will be easier for me to pick up up in car and drive over to see her! :lol:


Hibiscusmile - are you talking about me?! Anytime you're near PA, let me know!!!!!


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## dgerndt (Mar 8, 2011)

@Marianna: Haha! :lol: There's a lot I don't know! I only know the basics.

@Rebbecca: Woooohoooo! Road trip! :lol:


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## hibiscusmile (Mar 8, 2011)

haha, yea you girl!


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## Marianna (Mar 15, 2011)




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## yen_saw (Mar 15, 2011)

As long as the mantis is able to hang upside down there is always a chance for the next molt, you can help with feeding (as shown in your pic -  ) I had a Chinese mantis that look worse


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## Marianna (Mar 16, 2011)

yen_saw said:


> As long as the mantis is able to hang upside down there is always a chance for the next molt, you can help with feeding (as shown in your pic -  ) I had a Chinese mantis that look worse


Yen_saw - Thanks for your reply. That is the determining issue.... I have not seen any encouragement in the last several weeks that he is able to hang upside down. Infact, he seems to be "sleeping" alot now.... maybe getting ready to molt. He at least can stand now, but holds his little head down on the paper towels. I tried to feed him yesterday and he refused (for one of the first times). I didn't push him.... but feel like we're at the crossroads. I know this forum is best thing next to a Mantis Hospital that I can get. How did your Chinese mantis turn out?


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## Marianna (Mar 16, 2011)

Saw on a previous post how people have tried to manually help their mantids molt. Since mine hasn't climbed on anything for weeks (he just walks around), I don't think he can hang, so I think I need to get ready to try to do what I can when he does molt. Ok.... the list i have so far is: warm water, tweezers, ..... ? Anything else? BESIDES NERVE PILLS!


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## patrickfraser (Mar 16, 2011)

Good luck.


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## dgerndt (Mar 16, 2011)

Awww! He's just SO CUTE! :wub: 

Anyway... Since he's only refused food from you this last time, try again tomorrow. Also, watch him closely for a while. If he suddenly starts to shake for a second (it almost looks like a spasm), he is definitely going to molt in the next few days.

From your photo, it looks like his "toes" on all of his back legs are gone. These are what mantids use to cling to branches, leaves, screen lids, etc. Without those, he probably can't hang onto anything. But you could test to see if he can. First, lay down a soft surface, such as a towel or blanket. Next, place him on a lid (or piece of screen), and hold him just a few inches above the soft surface, so he won't get hurt if he falls. Now try to slowly turn the lid upside down. If he falls off the first time, you may want to try it one or two more times. If he can't hang on, he can't molt on his own.

Go ahead and try this, then give us an update. Either way, there still could be hope.


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## Marianna (Mar 17, 2011)

As an update, just wanted to share that my little Chinese Mantid is looking pretty good from his molt this morning .... looks like everything but one leg has improved, but I'm still holding my breath. I think he's used to this special treatment and probably wants me to take him to to McDonald's tonite. Thanks for all your help, encouragement and comments!


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## Marianna (Mar 17, 2011)

patrickfraser said:


> Good luck.


Tis the Luck of the Irish was with us (along with some prayers humbly reminding God since He watches over the sparrows, one little mantis could also use some watching over...)!


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## lancaster1313 (Mar 18, 2011)

Marianna said:


> As an update, just wanted to share that my little Chinese Mantid is looking pretty good from his molt this morning .... looks like everything but one leg has improved, but I'm still holding my breath. I think he's used to this special treatment and probably wants me to take him to to McDonald's tonite. Thanks for all your help, encouragement and comments!


Sounds like good news! :clap:


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## Marianna (Mar 18, 2011)

likebugs said:


> Sounds like good news! :clap:


I am right with you clapping for the good news! I was holding my breath, and still am - this made me realize don't take anything for granted! Thanks for your applause!


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## yen_saw (Mar 18, 2011)

Marianna said:


> Yen_saw - Thanks for your reply. That is the determining issue.... I have not seen any encouragement in the last several weeks that he is able to hang upside down. Infact, he seems to be "sleeping" alot now.... maybe getting ready to molt. He at least can stand now, but holds his little head down on the paper towels. I tried to feed him yesterday and he refused (for one of the first times). I didn't push him.... but feel like we're at the crossroads. I know this forum is best thing next to a Mantis Hospital that I can get. How did your Chinese mantis turn out?


Sorry for the late reply. He mismoltedduring the last molt. Usually mismolt during the early stage is easier to rectify (with subsequent molt) than mismolting during the later stage. Unfortunately mine suffered mismolt at subadult stage, so don't give up on yours.


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## Marianna (Mar 18, 2011)

yen_saw said:


> Sorry for the late reply. He mismoltedduring the last molt. Usually mismolt during the early stage is easier to rectify (with subsequent molt) than mismolting during the later stage. Unfortunately mine suffered mismolt at subadult stage, so don't give up on yours.


I was actually astonished yesterday to see my mantid having survived his molt... i honestly don't know how he did it. He was laying on the bottom with his "casing" laying next to him.. he was still for most of the day, but ate a little last night. I handfed him yesterday cause now I'm paranoid that he has fotten how to catch his food! Maybe I'll introduce him to fruitflies to see if he can tackle them. I'm so sorry to hear about yours mismolting at the subadult stage... it astounds me that they survive at all! Do you have other mantids? I think I can only handle one at a time!!!! I was thrilled this morning to see him hanging from a paper towel on the side of his enclosure (so he doesn't have far to fall!). I think my next move is quit mothering him so much, and move him to an apt. instead of his little efficiency.


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## dgerndt (Mar 19, 2011)

Woohoo for a successful molt!!  

Fruitflies are probably too small for him at this point. Try feeding him small crickets. You'd be surprised what mantids can catch and eat when they're hungry.


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