# mantis virus?



## jetsky82 (May 10, 2013)

I bought 5 wide armed mantises. For the past 2 weeks one was puking every day and then her eyes turned black even though she was alive and she stopped moving completely and i think she will die. I've been keeping her hydrated, and have tried to feed her flies using tweezers.

Then, overnight, the mantis in the enclosure next to her started leaking two drops of fluid from her butt and turned dark and stopped moving....after being chipper only two days ago!

Anyone else have insight into this? I think i need to let these two pass on and then discard any enclosure they touched.

The other option is that the flies i bought were bad.


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## jrh3 (May 10, 2013)

it sounds like pesticide poison, with the weather warming up everyone is spraying homes and such could have traveled in or maybe you can in contact woth it then touched there cage.


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## Paradoxica (May 10, 2013)

You're not giving them tap water are you?


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## D_Hemptress (May 10, 2013)

it sounds like something they re eating for sure


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## jetsky82 (May 10, 2013)

I am giving them them tap water! Why?


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## dgerndt (May 10, 2013)

Tap water has chlorine, fluoride, and, depending on where you live, heavy minerals. Those can all be very bad for mantids. I buy distilled water in gallons from the store and use that. It's less than a dollar a gallon, and much safer. Plus, no water spots on your containers!


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## Scruffy Aphid Herder (May 10, 2013)

Yeah tap water is bad. I live in Florida so I leave out a 10gallon bucket and collect rain water then just fill my spray bottles.


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## jrh3 (May 10, 2013)

I never had a problem with tap water but i also live in a small town of 500 people and we have like to water towers maybe not too many chemicals in it.


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## ladygigi (May 10, 2013)

Deby said:


> Tap water has chlorine, fluoride, and, depending on where you live, heavy minerals. Those can all be very bad for mantids. I buy distilled water in gallons from the store and use that. It's less than a dollar a gallon, and much safer. Plus, no water spots on your containers!


I boil my own water, let it cool, then pour into a gallon container with a lid. It's the same as buying distilled but cheaper.


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## jetsky82 (May 13, 2013)

I'll get distilled water, i've never had problems with the tap water but I also just moved so the tap water might be different here.


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## sally (May 13, 2013)

I have well water but I still use distilled water only.


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## Orin (May 13, 2013)

jetsky82 said:


> I'll get distilled water, i've never had problems with the tap water but I also just moved so the tap water might be different here.


I don't think using distilled water will help any more than standing on one leg while introducing prey. Black or brown puke is usually pretty rare and seems to relate to developmental insufficiencies. I think all you can do now is feed them well and avoid too much dampness or dryness and hope some make it. Distilled water won't hurt but it won't cure anything either.


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## psyconiko (May 13, 2013)

Thanks Orin for busting that distilled water myth.It is totally useless,unless you are leaving next to Pripyat.


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## Rick (May 13, 2013)

I used tap water for years. I really doubt that is your problem.


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## jrh3 (May 13, 2013)

What was the outcome?


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## Tony C (May 13, 2013)

ladygigi said:


> I boil my own water, let it cool, then pour into a gallon container with a lid. It's the same as buying distilled but cheaper.


Not true unless you are collecting the condensation. Boiling water will drive off dissolved gases like chlorine, but actually concentrates solids like fluoride and other minerals/metals.


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## angelofdeathzz (May 13, 2013)

No, of course tap water is one of the cleanest things on earth, it's not like they dump a bunch of chemicals in it or like they have the water running through 50+ year old pipes and rusted plumbing that you could scrape the sludge out and put on your toast for breakfast, yum! Why would anyone want to use filtered or distilled water when you can't even smell it

Tap water is no more than controlled raw sewage at best in most areas, but hey if you like that sort of thing more power to ya!

Here's one small example of how well they look after our water supplies:

http://youtu.be/U01EK76Sy4A


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## Sticky (May 14, 2013)

WOW! Glad I live where I drink well water that is spring fed. There is no drilling for icky stuff around here. The only additive is bleach and it is very dilute. The water in my old apartment was bleached stronger.


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## Orin (May 14, 2013)

angelofdeathzz said:


> No, of course tap water is one of the cleanest things on earth, it's not like they dump a bunch of chemicals in it ...


I could readily debate water chemistry and water treatment but that is outside the scope of the original poster's question. Many successful mantis keepers have used tap water for years without black tar spitting problems.


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## angelofdeathzz (May 14, 2013)

Orin said:


> I could readily debate water chemistry and water treatment but that is outside the scope of the original poster's question. Many successful mantis keepers have used tap water for years without black tar spitting problems.


You could debate how our water is handled but you would be on the short end of the stick there.  Of course mantis and people can drink it but why when you could be safer? Not sure if tap water caused it or not but properly feed feeders that you raise yourself is always a plus for any carnivorous pet.


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## jrh3 (May 14, 2013)

i never had a problem with any reptiles or insects from tap waterNEVER.


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## fleurdejoo (May 14, 2013)

I think you need to know about the tap water in your area. Some places are really bad!!

I always used distilled water to mist and feed.

However...I honestly have an opinion about the black, stinky vomit.

The only time I have ever had mantid's die from this is when I (Jude Jett) failed to keep my feeders clean!!!

I swear I truly believe that is what it's all about.

You all know of my cricket problem. I do not like them at all.

Sooooo I have neglected them in the past and I got 2 dead valida's to show for it.

Keep your feeders super clean and I bet it won't be an issue.

That's my policy anyway.


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## Precarious (May 14, 2013)

ladygigi said:


> I boil my own water, let it cool, then pour into a gallon container with a lid. It's the same as buying distilled but cheaper.


Boiling will kill bacteria but do nothing about fluoride or other additives. Letting it sit in a wide open container for at least 24 hours will allow the chlorine to escape.



fleurdejoo said:


> I think you need to know about the tap water in your area. Some places are really bad!!
> 
> I always used distilled water to mist and feed.
> 
> ...


I don't know who this chick is but she sounds like she knows what she's talking about.

I would ask if you've been feeding them on crickets. They seem to be the cause in most cases. Certain species are susceptible to the black vomit. R.valida, as mentioned above, are prone to this. But Cilnia, in my experience are very hardy. Although, out of the 4 females I was raising, one died very similarly to what you describe. Her abdomen started to blacken at the end and eventually she died. No way to know for sure why. She was fed crickets regularly but could also have been fungal. No issues with the other 3 females or 4 males. This is only my second generation of Cilnia so I can't say if this is an issue with the species or bad crickets.


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## fleurdejoo (May 14, 2013)

You don't know who I am?!?!!??

5'4", dark hair, baking skills, knitting skills, no nun chuk skills?


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## patrickfraser (May 14, 2013)

I have only used tap water for all my critters and have not noticed any reason not to. My water is "well" water and I don't know if that makes a difference, or not.


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## Precarious (May 14, 2013)

fleurdejoo said:


> You don't know who I am?!?!!??
> 
> 5'4", dark hair, baking skills, knitting skills, no nun chuk skills?


Hmmm... Sounds vaguely familiar. Oh, wait. You're the girl that came over then never folded my laundry like you said you would! In fact, you made my Mayan calendar shirt even wrinklier! I'm calling the Better Business Bureau. Is that still around or do I just give you a bad review on Yelp?



patrickfraser said:


> I have only used tap water for all my critters and have not noticed any reason not to. My water is "well" water and I don't know if that makes a difference, or not.


Well water is untreated and naturally filtered. Unless they are fracking for oil near you it should be good.


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## jrh3 (May 15, 2013)

fleurdejoo said:


> You don't know who I am?!?!!??
> 
> 5'4", dark hair, baking skills, knitting skills, no nun chuk skills?


lol baking is all you neeed haha. too funny.


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## Orin (May 15, 2013)

jrh3 said:


> lol baking is all you neeed haha. too funny.


Let's try to stay on task and relay our personal experiences, or lack of, on the tar spitting problem.


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## fleurdejoo (May 15, 2013)

Orin, I hear you and obey.

I'll try to stay in Other.


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## lancaster1313 (May 15, 2013)

It sounds like something wrong with feeders, or maybe stagnant moisture causing dirty conditions.

How is the ventilation in the mantids containers?

I have used filtered tap water from here in S. Florida and filtered well water in rural TN. The well water, before being filtered, smelled bad.

Still, I have never had a health problem in my invertebrates, on account of the water.


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## sally (May 15, 2013)

My well water is crystal clear. I only use the distilled because I have to buy it anyway for the humidifier in the bug room. The calcium and lime content is to strong and scales up tubing fast.


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## jrh3 (May 15, 2013)

i say pesticide exposure


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## dgerndt (May 17, 2013)

It could also depend on what you're feeding your crickets. I fed my crickets carrots once, and then my ghosts that ate them threw up all over. Lots and lots of vomit. I cleaned their cages, changed the crickets' diet, and both lived to adulthood and died of old age.


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