# Never-changing substrate?



## asdsdf (Oct 7, 2007)

Is there like a bug, that could eat mantis waste? Could woodlice do it 9 I heard they ate plant matreial, but digested foor count?)? How about some type of substrate that hosted beneficial bacteria that broke down waste. (No, not mold or fungus. &lt;_&lt; ) If there was a bug, then you can just put a substrate there and leave some bugs in there. They will clean the mantis waste, and if they become too populated and explore the area, then it's food for a mantis. How convenient. :lol: You wouldn't have to change the substrate.

That would be neat-o.


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## Krissim Klaw (Oct 7, 2007)

Heh, I just go for the easy route of using no substrate in the first place. All I have to do is tip my small cages over every once in a while and the along with uneaten insect parts just rolls out. For my large cages I just use a dust buster.  

A self cleaning substrate would be interesting though.


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## OGIGA (Oct 8, 2007)

I can't think of such a substrate or insect that would do the job. But like Krissim Klaw was saying, I do something similar. My substrate is a flat sheet of paper towel and I just roll it up and put new sheets in when I need to change it. Simple!


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## Precious (Oct 11, 2007)

This is a very good thread. Hibiscusmile also chooses not to do substrate and has no problems, but her weather is humid and she humidifies the air when necessary. I want to try and get rid of it and it is much easier, BUT I apply a low wattage lamp for heat and the enclosures with substrates get warm condensation right away, not so with the one's without. I use cotton cosmetic rounds and squares, very damp and I can see it keeping humidity up. That's my only concern for going no substrate. These cotton things are perfect, but I change them frequently for fear of mold and the like. Still easy, I keep a giant spray bottle of water that I use for everything, use forcepst to remove soiled cotton, spray the interir with wather and paper towel it out (I use a dowel if the enclosure is to tall or narrow. I did use paper towel but found the cotton absorbed more water and stayed moist longer. Easy peasy and it's clean and nice - I don't do dirt. &lt;_&lt;


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## yen_saw (Oct 11, 2007)

Ah no! no more woodlice or some kind of bugs  enough of bugs for me  

I only have towel paper glued to the bottom. No substrate.


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## lionsden112002 (Oct 11, 2007)

I tried to keep my Chinese from casting another oothaca on the lid by putting in willow branches into the keeper. after a few days of misting the leaves where fermenting and smelled bad. I went back to nothing and then back to twigs w/o leaves. I use no substrate but do include sticks from time to time. I think she needs to the sticks to get at the crickets on the bottom of the keeper. W/o sticks she stays clinging to the top. With sticks the crickets climb up to her and get caught.

If I used a substrate I could see it getting nasty and smelly quick.

I am thinking of trying artificial leaves that could be washed in a sink.


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## hibiscusmile (Oct 11, 2007)

Yept! I use the leaves and hot glue them on (with low temp glue gun! BTW, when were you guys gonna tell that secret that I had to pry out of yous?) and whenever I wash out the container and shake it dry and use paper towel to mop up extra I am good to go, takes less than a minute to do the dirty deed!


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## MikhailsDinos (Oct 11, 2007)

I have beetles &amp; their larvae eat the bodies, Plus they eat waste. I use them for my roaches. All I do is feed the roaches &amp; give them water.

I dont use them for mantis through, I just use paper towels. I clean all the cages once a week.


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## rickyc666 (Oct 11, 2007)

Dont worms and microbes do this in the wild?

no substrate is the way forwards though.

I sometimes use small potted tropical plants (types with woody stems), they help with humidity as the leaves constantly release moisture, and they dont mold as long as they stay healthy. but need good light and ventilation. when they get too big you can trim them and make more cuttings.


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## OGIGA (Oct 11, 2007)

Yep, fungi, microbes, worms, and plants do it in the wild.


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## AndyWatt (Oct 13, 2007)

I keep amphibians and I have Dwarf tropical woodlice (Trichorhina tomentosa) in the tank, they hide under the moss, come out every now and again and clean  They do eat waste, I have seen them feast on dead fruit flies and on the amphibians excrement. The frogs will also eat them as well, which is great 

As for mantids, I suppose it could work, but I really don't see the need, like yen I just use paper towel as my substrate. To clean, just remove an replace and tip the waste from the cup straight into the bin and give the cup a wipe.

It is an interesting point though, maybe you could buy some Trichorhina tomentosa and see if it works for you.


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## asdsdf (Oct 13, 2007)

Mold is a fungus, and it does break it down eventually, but no one really likes seeing mold in their tank. It's much cleaner and easier for a bug to eat it. For my cup-like enclosures, I don't use a substrate, and just dump the bodies/waste in the trash. However, this topic is about my tank, and I need a substrate that i don't have to change so often, since it's big. I was thinking of maybe getting shpgumwhatever moss and then put some buggies in there, so my aquarium would look nice, and I woudn't have to do the difficult chore of cleaning it every week. (lazy me) :lol: Thanks for your opinions though, and your willingness to try to help me!

Thank you so much Andy Watt!!!!!!!! Now I need a place where I could by those woodlice thingies. Have you experimented with other woodlice though? (So I could just go to my yard and look under some wood.)


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## calmspeak (Oct 14, 2007)

I use vermiculite as substrate. It seems to obsorb odors and helps hold in a bit of moisture. The only problem is sometimes when mantids are catching crickets off the bottom they will pick up pieces of the substrate. After one or two bites they usually drop it. It's pretty cheap and is also good at disguising half eaten bugs.

Cheers


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## bellerophon (Oct 14, 2007)

I have a Trichorhina tomentosa culture for my frog tanks if anyones interested in giving them a try. super easy to keep


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## asdsdf (Oct 14, 2007)

bellerophon said:


> I have a Trichorhina tomentosa culture for my frog tanks if anyones interested in giving them a try. super easy to keep


OOOhhhh....Pm me price/whatever please.


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## Morpheus uk (Oct 15, 2007)

I just have dry coconut fibre in my mantid tanks


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## Orin (Oct 15, 2007)

asdsdf said:


> Mold is a fungus, and it does break it down eventually, but no one really likes seeing mold in their tank. It's much cleaner and easier for a bug to eat it. For my cup-like enclosures, I don't use a substrate, and just dump the bodies/waste in the trash. However, this topic is about my tank, and I need a substrate that i don't have to change so often, since it's big. I was thinking of maybe getting shpgumwhatever moss and then put some buggies in there, so my aquarium would look nice, and I woudn't have to do the difficult chore of cleaning it every week. (lazy me) :lol: Thanks for your opinions though, and your willingness to try to help me!Thank you so much Andy Watt!!!!!!!! Now I need a place where I could by those woodlice thingies. Have you experimented with other woodlice though? (So I could just go to my yard and look under some wood.)


I'd suggest using potting soil. In a 5-gallon or larger aquarium you'd never have to change the substrate even if you didn't have the terrestrial isopods (known as pillbugs or sowbugs). An alternative is giant springtails (isopods will feed on an ootheca if its' somewhere they can reach it). Giant springtails adults are a little smaller than fruit flies. Of course I have giant springtails (as well as cultures of a few types of normal springtails).


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## ChrisM (Oct 26, 2007)

I also keep dart frogs, and use tropical woodlice, and springtail in my big mantis tanks.

Never have to clean up any poo / dead insects etc, and doesnt smell at all!

Nymphs, small mantids etc get the paper towel option tho.


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## Malnra (Oct 28, 2007)

asdsdf said:


> OOOhhhh....Pm me price/whatever please.


Did you try it ? I was curious about this myself because I had thought about dirt for my first Mantis .....


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## asdsdf (Oct 28, 2007)

Well, I got them, but I am waiting for the little babies to grow up so i can use them as experiments....


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## Malnra (Oct 29, 2007)

asdsdf said:


> Well, I got them, but I am waiting for the little babies to grow up so i can use them as experiments....


AHHH ok ... thought maybe some adult ones might have come and you could see if they were doing what you hoped. I would also want to know for certain that they dont climb as it would NOT be a good thing for them to get out into my house. My wife would have a cow :blink:


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