# Beginner Species



## agent A (Sep 1, 2009)

I have a few reccomendations for a newbie mantis rearer:

Creobroter species

Tenodera

Hierodula

GSEFM

Miomantis


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## idolomantis (Sep 1, 2009)

agent A said:


> GSEFM


What is a GSEFM?

If it is a mantis can you please tell the exact scientific name?

I also suggest _Sphodromantis_ spieces.

I also disrecomend the _Mantis religiosa_, believe me, they sometimes will not eat and the larvae are extremely weak.

And on a side note: it's _Odontomantis_ not _odonomantis_. and this spieces is actually relatively easy.


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## Opivy (Sep 1, 2009)

why is this a poll?


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## Rick (Sep 1, 2009)

idolomantis said:


> I also suggest _Sphodromantis_ spieces.


This


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## agent A (Sep 1, 2009)

Alright I am getting tired of this. GSEFM is Pseudoharpax Virescens! This is a poll because I want other people's opinions on the best beginner species.


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## idolomantis (Sep 1, 2009)

agent A said:


> Alright I am getting tired of this. GSEFM is Pseudoharpax Virescens! This is a poll because I want other people's opinions on the best beginner species.


Why don't you call it a _Pseudoharpax virescens_?

GSEFM is a term that noone really understands.


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## agent A (Sep 1, 2009)

idolomantis said:


> Why don't you call it a _Pseudoharpax virescens_?GSEFM is a term that noone really understands.


well the common name is Gambian Spotted Eye Flower Mantis, which is really long, so I abbreviate it as GSEFM. How many times am I going to say this?!!


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## idolomantis (Sep 1, 2009)

agent A said:


> well the common name is Gambian Spotted Eye Flower Mantis, which is really long, so I abbreviate it as GSEFM. How many times am I going to say this?!!


Actually common names are bad. African mantis can reffer to like 10 spieces.

Just use the scientific names then everybody will know which spieces you mean.


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## agent A (Sep 1, 2009)

idolomantis said:


> Actually common names are bad. African mantis can reffer to like 10 spieces.Just use the scientific names then everybody will know which spieces you mean.


not my mom!


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## idolomantis (Sep 1, 2009)

agent A said:


> not my mom!


ah.


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## agent A (Sep 1, 2009)

mm hmm, now can people just vote now please?!


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## kamakiri (Sep 1, 2009)

idolomantis said:


> Actually common names are bad. African mantis can reffer to like 10 spieces.Just use the scientific names then everybody will know which spieces you mean.


Mixed references are bad...it would have made more sense to use one or the other. At least for a poll to reduce the confusion.

Agreed that _M. religiosa_ shouldn't be on the easy list.

I also can't really vote on this one...

A couple of my easiest aren't on the list: _I. oratoria_ and _S. limbata_


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## PhilinYuma (Sep 1, 2009)

idolomantis said:


> Actually common names are bad. African mantis can reffer to like 10 spieces.Just use the scientific names then everybody will know which spieces you mean.


Christian has already given a much more able defense of your position --on several occasions -- than this, but so far as this forum is concerned, you are in a small minority. I could not search "GSE" on this site owing to the limitations of our engine, but I did find about 80 references to "Gambian" or "Gambian Spotted Eye" since the beginning of this year and only about 10 references to "[Pseudoharpax] viriscens" in the past two years. It is also incuded in the U.K. mantid forum's list of binomial and common names. You will not find that "African mantis can reffer to like 10 spieces," on that list, by the way. Perhaps you were thinking of Dutch names?

What really interests me, though, is why you decided to air your opinion now, rather than in the preceding eighty references to "Gambian spotted-eye."

And on a side note, since correct spelling is apparently important to you, it's "refer," not "reffer" and "species" not "spieces."


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## idolomantis (Sep 1, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> Christian has already given a much more able defense of your position --on several occasions -- than this, but so far as this forum is concerned, you are in a small minority. I could not search "GSE" on this site owing to the limitations of our engine, but I did find about 80 references to "Gambian" or "Gambian Spotted Eye" since the beginning of this year and only about 10 references to "[Pseudoharpax] viriscens" in the past two years. It is also incuded in the U.K. mantid forum's list of binomial and common names. You will not find that "African mantis can reffer to like 10 spieces," on that list, by the way. Perhaps you were thinking of Dutch names? What really interests me, though, is why you decided to air your opinion now, rather than in the preceding eighty references to "Gambian spotted-eye."
> 
> And on a side note, since correct spelling is apparently important to you, it's "refer," not "reffer" and "species" not "spieces."


Thank you Phil for correcting my spelling errors, those are likely typo's. I make those pretty often.

In the case of _pseudoharpax_ the common name is not much trouble since there is one species of that genus in culture(altough i have seen _P. ugandanus_ on a show sometime).

I am more a fan of scientific names and i just stated that. ofcourse there is nothing wrong with some common names like "wandering violin mantis" because we all know _Gongylus gongylodus_ is meant.

I named the african mantis as the example for that is the best: if i am on a show and see smoe one selling african mantis and i ask him to the scientific name but he doesn't know it, i do not know what spieces i am buying. If i happen to lose the males but still have my females and i want to buy males for this spieces i do not know wether to buy males from _S. lineola, S. centralis, S. gastrica, or S.balachowski_, to name a few.

And i need to go trough properl ID first.

That is just one of the many reasons to use scientific names, even if common names are used too.

To come back on the Gambian spotted-eye, I think the term "GSEFM" or "GSE" should not be used at all UNLESS you are with a number of people who do know what you mean.

But if a person here joins up and reads a topic about "GSEFM" he is most likely to ask what that is. And so we get that question about a hundred times more anyway.


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## [email protected] (Sep 1, 2009)

[SIZE=14pt]Idk gse/gsefm but now I do.[/SIZE]

I like Ghost mantids they are cute and just cool or Deroplatys desiccata for some one looking for a little bit biger dead leaf that likes to eat just a little more care on the molts. On the harder Idk realy some of our reptiles would fall into place so Idk realy for now.


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## PhilinYuma (Sep 1, 2009)

I've got to admit it; GSEFM set me back for a moment, and then I thought that it stood for "Great Sex Education Forum Member." Arkanis defined "GSE" a while back, but I agree that a new member would probably not know it, and three-letter words are not accepted by the search engine.

Your reference to a variety of Sphodromantis species is of particular interest to me. S. lineola, is just about always called the African lined mantis in England and was used recently by Becky L (just as S. limbata is called the Arizona bordered mantis over here to distinguish it from some of Arizona's other Magnificent Species). You, of course, can check www.kara-inci.nl/sphodromantis%20soorten.htm, but that doesn't help most of us very much.  

At the other extreme, we have Sphodromantis belachowski, centralis, gastrica, lineola and vidiris all listed asb "African mantis" on the English site, http://www.exotic-pets.co.uk/african-mantis.html. Now here's the problem. I get a bunch of "African mantises" from my brother in England and then try to sell some to you. You say that you must have the binomial, and when I ask my brother, he says, "Well we always called them 'Africans,' but they are probably S. centralis.' I pass the info on to you and you become the proud owner of some S. centralis nymphs, which might in fact, be any of the Sphodromantis mentioned above.

The fact is that people in the English speaking world, at least, tend to call all living critters by their common name. We see a "sparrow" and learn that its binomial is Passer domesticus, but it might well be Melospiza melodia (great name, huh!), so we've gone from the vague but correct term "sparrow" to the precise but incorrect term "P. domesticus." This kind of error can occur even when binomials are used. Christian pointed out in the "Alalomantis muta IGM 132" thread today, that binomials can be deliberately changed for profit, and we have recently had a confusion in the U.S.over Hierodula membranacea and H. grandis and many folks are calling all "giant Asians" Hierolula sp.

So there you have it. I have used binomials, since I was about twelve, but many mantis lovers have no inclination to learn them when they can use a common name which is easier to remember and spell.


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## Katnapper (Sep 1, 2009)

I voted...... but what does "GSEFM" stand for? :huh:   :lol:


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## idolomantis (Sep 1, 2009)

Obviously everybody would know what kind of creature i mean if i say " look, a sparrow!". It's not the same with mantids.

We as breeders and hobbyists are supposed to learn/know the correct scientific name in my opinion.

I listed those _Sphodromantis_ spieces for a mere example(i didn't even got those names from a site).

Now okay, you'd sell me a bunch of africans that are supposed to be _S. centralis_ right? If they end up being _S. gastrica_ it is not my mistake for having those names incorrect.

On the other side 'I' as buyer should first of all look up or ask to a professional what _S. centralis_ looks like and know how to reckognize it.

And if you're uncertain about the species you have you should call them, for example, _Sphodromantis sp._, this indicates that the exact species is still unknown.

That why it is of importance that the seller AND the buyer know how the animal they are going to buy looks like.

As we can see in the case with _A. muta_(but i must say; selling creatures under a diffrent name to get more money out of them is just sad).

This doesn't really matter with _Hymenopus coronatus_ for example, because these are the only _Hymenopus_ sp. in culture.

But to the point now:



> but many mantis lovers have no inclination to learn them when they can use a common name which is easier to remember and spell.


I agree, but you should still take the time to atleast copy their scientific name and write it up somewhere for possible selling or trading.

(that and we use them for brain training).

There's nothing frong with saying orchid, ghost, or wandering violin mantis, because they are the only one of their genus in culteure there eh  

As we already saw lately with _Creobroter spp._ lately proper use of scientific names is important. now we have a few USA breeders with an uncertain species of _creobroter_.



Katnapper said:


> I voted...... but what does "GSEFM" stand for? :huh:   :lol:


  

On a side note, Phil, it amazes me that you took the time to look for a dutch site with scientific names of praying mantis..


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## Opivy (Sep 2, 2009)

this threads got kind of a bad vibe to it... I'm Audi 5000


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## Ntsees (Sep 2, 2009)

kamakiri said:


> Mixed references are bad...it would have made more sense to use one or the other. At least for a poll to reduce the confusion.Agreed that _M. religiosa_ shouldn't be on the easy list.
> 
> I also can't really vote on this one...
> 
> A couple of my easiest aren't on the list: _I. oratoria_ and _S. limbata_


+1


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## ABbuggin (Sep 2, 2009)

I voted. I have also bred _Tarachodes, sp._ for 5 generations and they are not really that hard at all.


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## PhilinYuma (Sep 2, 2009)

idolomantis said:


> Obviously everybody would know what kind of creature i mean if i say " look, a sparrow!". It's not the same with mantids.


Maybe in Holland, but in the U.S. there are many different species of sparrow, each with its own binomial, of course.



> On a side note, Phil, it amazes me that you took the time to look for a dutch site with scientific names of praying mantis..


I'd like to take credit for that, but like yours, my Google takes most European languages, and it just popped up. Kismet!  

In fact, Idolo, we probably agree on more than we disgree on. I might even go one step further and say that if we use latin and greek words in binomials, we should know, whenever possible, what they mean. I usually do, but even though it's excellent brain training, I don't think that many people will follow my example! My point is that saying that folks in the hobby should learn binomials will not make it happen and that we might as well accommodate ourselves to that fact.


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## Kruszakus (Sep 2, 2009)

I think that people naming mantids in the vernicular ought to be banned from this forum. Asian Bark Mantis my sit upon, cause that realy sounds stupid. Besides, it creates a lot of confusion.

I don't get it, you're just too lazy to learn the proper names? What, spelling is difficult and hard to remember? Tough balls, suck it up and do it right.


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## kamakiri (Sep 2, 2009)

Opivy said:


> ... I'm Audi 5000


 :huh: 

...sporting 5 cylinders?

...need a vavle lash adjustment?

...forgot what 'eurosport' really meant?

...was born circa 1980?

...feel all VW inside?

...outta here?   :lol:


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## ismart (Sep 2, 2009)

_Iris oratoria_ has been the most easiest species for me thus far!


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## idolomantis (Sep 2, 2009)

PhilinYuma said:


> In fact, Idolo, we probably agree on more than we disgree on. I might even go one step further and say that if we use latin and greek words in binomials, we should know, whenever possible, what they mean. I usually do, but even though it's excellent brain training, I don't think that many people will follow my example! My point is that saying that folks in the hobby should learn binomials will not make it happen and that we might as well accommodate ourselves to that fact.


Then we have the same point there.

But i think that any breeder/hobbyis who wants to learn more about his pets should atleast learn the scientific name.

Sadly not all people do this. But i will still keep saying it  



> Maybe in Holland, but in the U.S. there are many different species of sparrow, each with its own binomial, of course.


So are here, but they all have their own common name ofcourse. Unless 2 species share the same common name.



> I'd like to take credit for that, but like yours, my Google takes most European languages, and it just popped up. Kismet!


Okay, I never even heard of that site before tho.


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## bassist (Sep 2, 2009)

This list is rather small as you left out a few species such as _Acromantis_, _Rhombodera_, _Stagmomantis_, _Hymenopus_, just to name a few, the list would be too large anyways might as well have had a thread where people listed the species difficulties based on their experiences rather than a poll.


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