# can you put more than one mantid in a n enclosure without them murdering eachother



## D_Hemptress (Dec 11, 2012)

how many mantids can be kept together if the terrarium id big enough?


----------



## Mime454 (Dec 11, 2012)

Highly depends on the species. Ghosts are some of the most friendly.


----------



## hierodula (Dec 11, 2012)

And violins, idolos!


----------



## Mr. Hyde (Dec 11, 2012)

The idea is if it is a "friendly" species _and _well fed, they _should_ be ok. Don't ever be in the situation where two mantids that you care about are in a tank together and hungry, but yes, as mentioned, idolos, violins, ghosts etc. are ok. as for how many, that depends on their adult size. Idolos need a lot of space to molt. I can't speak for any other species, but you don't want them crowding eachother during molting.


----------



## Mvalenz (Dec 11, 2012)

Most mantids will eat each other. sisters and brothers and children. there are a few species that are more communal like ghost. however, for the most part they will eat each other...sisters and brothers!

They are rally nice to people and your relatives though.


----------



## Rick (Dec 11, 2012)

Some can do okay together, but enclosure size presents its own challenges. Very large enclosures make feeding more difficult.


----------



## dlemmings (Dec 11, 2012)

Ghosties...I have two 32oz delicups with 3 pre-sub in them (one set of males and one set of females) who have not munched on each other.

(so far) and a couple more with two each. I did pick out the "big" ones and put them seperately thinking they were the cannibals of the group.

cant tell if I am right or wrong in my reasoning but it has workd so far for months with no further losses.


----------



## sueb4653 (Dec 11, 2012)

Ghosts I have a bunch in an exo terra feed lots of flies everyday

BUT males do not last they become snacks


----------



## D_Hemptress (Dec 11, 2012)

so basically ghosts!!! and that's a species that ide love to have


----------



## fleurdejoo (Dec 11, 2012)

I would agree that's probably your best bet.


----------



## D_Hemptress (Dec 11, 2012)

fleurdejoo said:


> I would agree that's probably your best bet.


i guess im going to have to look into getting some, after my stagmos hatch ill have to seee if i can get someone to trade or something


----------



## Precarious (Dec 11, 2012)

There are no 100% communal species but some are pretty close. The most communal will very rarely cannibalize, and semi-communal should be separated at least by sex as pre- or subadult. Of course always have food available to prevent cannibalism and allow plenty of space. Very easy to inclease surface area by adding branches and fake vines with lots of hiding places.

Here is a list of the species I've kept communally...

*Most Communal Species:*

Gongylus gongylodes (Wandering Violin Mantis)

Heterochaeta orientalis

Humbertiella ceylonica (Indian Bark Mantis)

Idolomantis diabolica

Oxyothespis dumonti (North African Grass Mantis)

Pseudoharpax Virescens (Gambian Spotted-Eye Flower Mantis)

*Semi-Communal Species:*

Ephestiasula pictipes (Purple Boxer Mantis)

Phyllocrania paradoxa (Ghosts Mantis)

Phyllovates chlorophaea (Texas Unicorn Mantis)

Pseudocreobotra wahlbergii (Spiny Flower Mantis)

Oxyopsis gracilis (Paraguayan Mantis)

Sibylla pretiosa (Cryptic Mantis)

Sinomantis denticulata (Glass Mantis)


----------



## D_Hemptress (Dec 11, 2012)

Precarious said:


> There are no 100% communal species but some are pretty close. The most communal will very rarely cannibalize, and semi-communal should be separated at least by sex as pre- or subadult. Of course always have food available to prevent cannibalism and allow plenty of space. Very easy to inclease surface area by adding branches and fake vines with lots of hiding places.
> 
> Here is a list of the species I've kept communally...
> 
> ...


all the semi comunal i want, they look awesome


----------



## Precarious (Dec 11, 2012)

D_Hemptress said:


> all the semi comunal i want, they look awesome


I have available:

Ephestiasula pictipes (Purple Boxer Mantis) ooths and nymphs

Pseudocreobotra wahlbergii (Spiny Flower Mantis) pairs soon

Oxyopsis gracilis (Paraguayan Mantis) pairs and ooths soon

I have a subadult pair of Sinomantis denticulata (Glass Mantis). Keep your fingers crossed!


----------



## D_Hemptress (Dec 11, 2012)

Precarious said:


> I have available:
> 
> Ephestiasula pictipes (Purple Boxer Mantis) ooths and nymphs
> 
> ...


let me know how those glass mantids do, those are adorbs.


----------



## D_Hemptress (Dec 11, 2012)

Precarious said:


> I have available:
> 
> Ephestiasula pictipes (Purple Boxer Mantis) ooths and nymphs
> 
> ...


in fact it was your profile i saw the video of one eating and i fell in love


----------



## Precarious (Dec 11, 2012)

D_Hemptress said:


> let me know how those glass mantids do, those are adorbs.





D_Hemptress said:


> in fact it was your profile i saw the video of one eating and i fell in love


Everyone is waiting on them. Hope I can pull it off this time. Added you to the list.


----------



## D_Hemptress (Dec 11, 2012)

Precarious said:


> Everyone is waiting on them. Hope I can pull it off this time. Added you to the list.


Muchos gracias sir. appreciated!


----------



## Paradoxica (Dec 11, 2012)

Precarious said:


> I have a subadult pair of Sinomantis denticulata (Glass Mantis). Keep your fingers crossed!


Oh yeah I meant to ask you about those, I was talking to you on YouTube about them LONG before I joined the forum.How are they on the communal scale?


----------



## Precarious (Dec 11, 2012)

Paradoxica said:


> Oh yeah I meant to ask you about those, I was talking to you on YouTube about them LONG before I joined the forum.
> 
> How are they on the communal scale?


They are pretty cannibalistic at L1. They seem to prefer each other to feeders, maybe because they're so small and it's hard to get food to them. I had a lot of trouble with them and huge die off over the first few molts. Had never used springtails before and didn't give enough ventilation. I think I have better methods worked out now but Yen is the real master of this species. He was the source of the original ooths I got and had kept them in culture for many years but gave them up because nobody wanted them until I made the videos. By then it was too late.

So because I didn't have many nymphs to work with after around L4-L5 I kept them separately but they would likely have been fine with each other. Tammy kept her together and I don't recall any cannibalism. I did end up keeping adults together without incident. The pair got along really well.


----------



## twolfe (Dec 12, 2012)

I raise a lot of species communally in net enclosures but never rare species (well except the sinomantis). As some said, there is always a risk, and it generally increases with each instar. I have had Rhombodera cannibalize already at L2. And I had an L2 Orchid bite off the head of another L2 Orchid once. (These were from an ooth I hatched and not ones I purchased.)

A few things I do to minimize cannibalism with my Texas Unicorns, wahlbergii, ghosts....


keep them well fed but not so much that they get stressed by too many flies
move out nymphs that either fall behind in molts or get ahead of the others (lessens the risk)
give them silk flowers, branches, etc to hang on or sit on so that they have their own space (wahlbergii often sit upright if given a perch they like)
separate a cannibal if I do happen to catch one in the act of eating another (seems like if there is a cannibal in the bunch it will continue to eat its siblings...especially true with wahlbergii)
never keep different species in the same enclosure (some people do this)
maintain a moderate temperature for most; I noticed that some nymphs raised together (e.g., wahlbergii) become more aggressive when it gets too hot; lost a few to mismolts that got knocked down by siblings during a molt. Hasn't happened again since I reduced the temp.
move them out as they molt to adults (though I have kept adult male Oxys and adult male Orchids together without any issues; just lost an adult male ghost that I kept with two others...despite having at least 3 bb flies in the enclosure)
Hope this makes sense. I'm tired...


----------



## Precarious (Dec 12, 2012)

Tammy Wolfe said:


> Hope this makes sense. I'm tired...


All good advice!

I was also going to say that Ghosts are pretty cannibalistic to even go into the semi-communal category. I've had adult males cannibalize each other even when well fed.


----------



## Mime454 (Dec 12, 2012)

Oh gosh, Pre. I wouldn't have the balls to risk keeping Heterochaeta together!


----------



## Precarious (Dec 12, 2012)

Mime454 said:


> Oh gosh, Pre. I wouldn't have the balls to risk keeping Heterochaeta together!


In all honesty, they are THE most communal species I've ever kept. Never had even one instance of cannibalism and I raised 2 generations from L2 to adult with up to 10 in the same enclosure. That's why you'll see I have videos of them with Idolo. No danger of aggression. I think people that experience cannibalism with them are just not feeding them enough. They can eat way more than people think and it can be difficult to get them to eat large prey which is absolutely necessary in my opinion.


----------



## Krissim Klaw (Dec 12, 2012)

Precarious said:


> In all honesty, they are THE most communal species I've ever kept. Never had even one instance of cannibalism and I raised 2 generations from L2 to adult with up to 10 in the same enclosure. That's why you'll see I have videos of them with Idolo. No danger of aggression. I think people that experience cannibalism with them are just not feeding them enough. They can eat way more than people think and it can be difficult to get them to eat large prey which is absolutely necessary in my opinion.


Your video makes me want a Heterochaeta so bad. They sort of remind me of the Euchomenella macrops with their elongated proportions and the way they have them big old claws but the actual pinching portion is rather small in comparison, hence why they tend to go for the smaller feeders. How long do the Heterochaeta tend to live?


----------



## Precarious (Dec 12, 2012)

Krissim Klaw said:


> How long do the Heterochaeta tend to live?


They're pretty long lived and take a while to mature. I have an adult female right now that hatched the beginning of August, 2011. She became adult in April, 2012. So 8 month alive as adult.

I'm pretty sure their claws are mainly designed to grip the wings of butterflies and moths. They love the white cabbage butterflies when I can catch them. Unfortunately that is a pretty rare event. They mainly subsist on blue bottles (a lot of them) and crickets (mainly hand fed). It's not easy to keep them fed, and healthy, because they are not aggressive hunters. If you don't put the work into getting them to eat you will lose some along the way.

This generation I started with 7 L2 nymphs and ended up with 7 adults (3 male, 4 female). Even with those numbers I failed to get them bred. This is my second failure. I will let the species go after this final female dies. They are one of my favorites but a lot of work (not as much as Idolos) and if I can't breed them I can't justify the investment of effort.

They are a beautiful and gentle species. Very mellow. I will miss them...

Sorry to hijack your thread, D_Hemptress!


----------



## D_Hemptress (Dec 12, 2012)

Precarious said:


> They're pretty long lived and take a while to mature. I have an adult female right now that hatched the beginning of August, 2011. She became adult in April, 2012. So 8 month alive as adult.
> 
> I'm pretty sure their claws are mainly designed to grip the wings of butterflies and moths. They love the white cabbage butterflies when I can catch them. Unfortunately that is a pretty rare event. They mainly subsist on blue bottles (a lot of them) and crickets (mainly hand fed). It's not easy to keep them fed, and healthy, because they are not aggressive hunters. If you don't put the work into getting them to eat you will lose some along the way.
> 
> ...


no worries, the info is still usefull


----------



## Mime454 (Dec 12, 2012)

That threat display is the scariest I've ever seen.


----------



## fleurdejoo (Dec 12, 2012)

So beautiful it's unreal.


----------

