# New-me!



## Flidais (Sep 17, 2016)

Hello!  I am new to mantid keeping and forum, and am already an addict!!


----------



## CubbySetsFire (Sep 17, 2016)

Welcome   and you are not alone, thats for sure! haha


----------



## Sarah K (Sep 17, 2016)

Diane Koch said:


> Hello!  I am new to mantid keeping and forum, and am already an addict!!


Welcome! You are at the beginning of an awesome journey!


----------



## Susan (Sep 17, 2016)

Thanks for adding me!  I was inspired by a facebook friend because of her beautiful pics.  She guided me here.  My name is Susan and I live in SC.


----------



## CosbyArt (Sep 17, 2016)

Hello Diane and welcome to the forum






What species of mantids do you have now? Any photos?


----------



## Rick (Sep 17, 2016)

Welcome


----------



## Flidais (Sep 17, 2016)

Sarah K said:


> Welcome! You are at the beginning of an awesome journey!


Thanks!!  I am already an addict.  Started with them just as a science project to keep the kiddos' brains working and am now a full-blown addict!


----------



## sally (Sep 17, 2016)

Welcome. You have been bitten by the bug haha. My name is Pat and I'm  a mantis addict lol.


----------



## Precious (Sep 18, 2016)

Welcome!!  Cheers from Virginia!  I'm currently raising only t. sinensis and h. membranacea.  Renovating my home and keeping my addiction to a small operation!  What species do you keep?  My girls are all expecting if you need babies!   (My name is   Christine and I keep mantids.  Thanks for letting me share!)


----------



## ashleenicole (Sep 18, 2016)

Welcome!


----------



## guapoalto049 (Sep 18, 2016)

Welcome to the forum


----------



## LazarusMantid (Sep 20, 2016)

Hello! Yes they do become an obsession quickly!


----------



## Flidais (Sep 22, 2016)

I have just the starter Chinese for now... I don't have recent pics but will get some soon, working on updating their little cups.  I had 4 at the beginning of the summer, but 2 died, I am guessing from bacteria... one is pretty crippled, but the last one is growing and thriving.  I recently ordered new juveniles in hopes to get a female I can breed closer to spring for the yard, but I'm not sure if I have a chica yet.  I know my older guy definitely looks boy-ish, but he likes to climb around or hide so I can't see the sections to count them... shape is more of the narrow like boys have, though.  I "think" he's maybe L4 or 5.

I have been using plastic canvas for them in the cups for climbing, but it doesn't let them camoflauge well, so I'm going today to get some paint and décor I can pop in and out easily.

Pics to come soon!


----------



## Flidais (Sep 22, 2016)

Precious said:


> Welcome!!  Cheers from Virginia!  I'm currently raising only t. sinensis and h. membranacea.  Renovating my home and keeping my addiction to a small operation!  What species do you keep?  My girls are all expecting if you need babies!   (My name is   Christine and I keep mantids.  Thanks for letting me share!)


Thanks!  I live in Minnesota, so I can only have ooths in the Spring/Summer when I can release in the yard and gardens... :-(  I really enjoy them, what an interesting creature!  My husband thinks I'm nuts.  My sons find them fascinating in a passing-by-in-a-rush/ADHD type of moment.  I work from home, so I am setting up my office space with some of the habitats for something nice and relaxing to look at when I need a distraction moment.


----------



## Skrout (Sep 22, 2016)

Welcome


----------



## Flidais (Sep 23, 2016)

Here are some before decor pictures.  I tried to help the crippled guy with some tape, seems to work okay, his broken leg and lower body are attached to the tape and he holds the sides with his less-crippled arm and working front leg.  His other two legs work sort of, but he can't hold himself up.  I doubt he'll moult, and I'm trying to decide if I should put him down... But I don't want to... ?  He eats by hand and man, he can pack it in!  

The other is my big-guy, I think


----------



## CosbyArt (Sep 23, 2016)

Not sure what to say really about taping a mantid intentionally, as tape is a death sentence for any insect. It traps anything it touches on a insect, mantids included, and almost always the area touching the tape is ripped off their body in the process of struggling or trying to remove it.

Sadly, even if you leave the tape on and decide not to remove it, there will likely be molting issues caused by it - as the abdomen (and whatever else the tape is on) will not be able to move freely and expand in order for him to molt successfully from the taped exoskeleton.

Injured mantids are often nursed back to health by most keepers, myself included, as long as they survive to molt the issues are usually cleared up in the molt. That said the prey is brought to the mantid, and the mantid is left as is. One of the most common ways is offering prey on tweezers/tongs, or even a thumbtack.


----------



## Flidais (Sep 23, 2016)

?. I read somewhere about tape for a leg so they could hang and that was what I was trying, backfired... Never again.  

I will try a gentle non-toxic remover.  He's so twisted, breaks my heart...

Have you seen them moult if they can't hang?

I use some funky reverse-type tweezers to feed him... I wanted to try horn worms on my bigger guy but he hates them... But the poor guy loves them like crazy, so no loss of money... And super easy to get hold of with the tweezers!


----------



## Flidais (Sep 23, 2016)

I think he's dead, just went to get him to start the super-slow removal and he's not moving and looks pretty done.  I'll leave him and keep an eye just incase, but I think I failed horribly here.

for my future... do they come back from that level of crippling, if I'd just left him laying down and continued to hand-feed him, would he have had a chance?

his condition: 1 front arm twisted off to the side with no visible function, other arm   seemed functional. 1front leg functional, other leg intact but didn't appear functional-he never really moved it at all.  1 back leg moved, but didn't grip anything, the gripper things were there, but more often than not he just waved it around and pulled it away if he brushed against something.  The other leg was missing part of the lower half, not sure what happened, it was like that when I picked him up after the moult.  His twisted arm still had part of the old skin on it and his back was bent forward.  He couldn't move his body at all, just his head, one front leg, and one arm.


----------



## CosbyArt (Sep 23, 2016)

Flidais said:


> ?. I read somewhere about tape for a leg so they could hang and that was what I was trying, backfired... Never again.
> 
> I will try a gentle non-toxic remover.  He's so twisted, breaks my heart...
> 
> ...


Ah, okay your response makes more sense out of the tape. In my previous post I wasn't trying to make you feel worse about the situation (although it likely did by reading your response), I was trying to figure out what was going on, warning you of the danger, and the successful methods keepers use. Either way don't blame yourself, everyone starts somewhere and if you read something trying to help him out, it was only out of kindness. Even with the best care possible there is not always a happy ending, it happens to us all.

No, I have not heard of any success of a mantid molting that was not hanging properly (but have if it was assisted to hang properly). A mantid has to hang in order to pull itself free, allowing gravity to help, and letting the exoskeleton dry before any weight is applied to prevent deformities/problems.

If a mantid is unable to hang by itself many keepers feel the most humane thing to do is place them in the freezer. As you are trying to help him, read on. If however you feel freezing is the only option (freezing is considered the best way to put a mantid down), leave him in there for 24 hours. I say 24 as I've removed some that I had to freeze that were in there for 4-8 hours, and they moved around after thawing out.

I would recommend you do not use any kind of tape/glue remover, as the chemicals (non-toxic to humans or not) will likely do more harm than the tape itself. As the tape is already on, just cut the tape as close as possible (safely) to the abdomen and let it be. And pulling the tape could easily damage the mantid more, no matter how gentle, as mantids are so small compared to us, any force could be enough to do major damage.

For a mantid that is unable to hang itself to molt, tape has been used at that point to secure them to a safe location to molt. I've read where member mantidbro has done it, and actually had success once. He though applied it to the mantids tarsi (across the bottom of the "feet" of the walking legs) to hang it as they normally would, and was careful as possible to ensure no taped edges were reachable by the mantid, and the tape was removed completely as soon as the mantid molted.

Personally for me the only experience with tape I've had was some nymphs that escaped found a roll of tape on my desk. Sadly, I was unable to save any of the five that got stuck.
 



Flidais said:


> I think he's dead, just went to get him to start the super-slow removal and he's not moving and looks pretty done.  I'll leave him and keep an eye just incase, but I think I failed horribly here.
> 
> for my future... do they come back from that level of crippling, if I'd just left him laying down and continued to hand-feed him, would he have had a chance?
> 
> his condition: 1 front arm twisted off to the side with no visible function, other arm   seemed functional. 1front leg functional, other leg intact but didn't appear functional-he never really moved it at all.  1 back leg moved, but didn't grip anything, the gripper things were there, but more often than not he just waved it around and pulled it away if he brushed against something.  The other leg was missing part of the lower half, not sure what happened, it was like that when I picked him up after the moult.  His twisted arm still had part of the old skin on it and his back was bent forward.  He couldn't move his body at all, just his head, one front leg, and one arm.


I'm really sorry to hear he is/may be dead. He may survive, I've had a few trick me before; however, if he crosses his walking legs (like a dead spider) he is dead or in the process of dying.  

Indeed if he was/is able to molt successfully he would survive, and recover. It sounds like you found him after a mis-molt in his current condition to start with though, and would easily explain the problems he has.

When they molt their new exoskeleton is extremely soft/wet and if it touches anything while wet it is easily deformed (as it can not spring back). They have to let the new exoskeleton air harden, usually 15-30 minutes in mid-molt (halfway out of the old exoskeleton), then they will finishing pulling themselves free. Once free they usually hang 1-2 hours near the old exoskeleton to further dry their new exoskeleton before doing anything. It takes 24 hours to get full hardness though, and when feeding is recommended.

If a mantid falls in the molting process the damage can range from completely deformed or dead, to bowed/bent legs. It just depends how long it was able to dry before falling. In your case it sounds like he was able to dry about 20 minutes or so before he fell.

Usually leg issues are partially healed in one molt (if it happens early enough), usually a tiny/short thin leg forms. After a second molt it should be nearly back to normal in size and fully functional.

That said if a walking leg is at a extreme angle, it is best to clip off the affected leg. As such leg issues can cause a molting mantid to become stuck during the molt and kill them. It seems cruel, but saves their life and in 2 molts it is back to normal.

If your boy is still alive, continue to hand feed him and give him a chance to molt - as he was/is eating and trying to make it. When was his last molt? If it is nearing two weeks, I would suggest "mounting" him in a molting position (upside down on the lid) that way he is ready, and hand feed until he does molt.


----------



## Flidais (Sep 24, 2016)

Thanks for all of the info!  He is dead, but I'll save this info for later in case in case one of my others have moulting issues.  ?  I need a magic fix-it wand.


----------



## CosbyArt (Sep 24, 2016)

Flidais said:


> Thanks for all of the info!  He is dead, but I'll save this info for later in case in case one of my others have moulting issues.  ?  I need a magic fix-it wand.


Sorry to hear that he did not make it, you have my condolences. If you experience a problem with a mantid in the future feel free to take photos and make a post for help, after all that is one reason why everyone is here. If help is possible members will outline it in a response, as each individual case can be vastly different or even members methods can be different too. I've received help with some of my mantids, and helped out when I can too.

A magic wand would be great for such problems, as they can happen too frequently, and sadly depending on the problem there is little if anything that can be done to help.


----------



## hibiscusmile (Sep 25, 2016)

welcome


----------

