# my first idolos-any tips?



## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

I stopped by the reptile fair in pomona and picked up 2 baby idolos. They are so cute! :wub: they are L2 and L3 and are being kept together in a 32 oz. deli cup with a screen lid. I have a 60 watt fluorescent bulb (not the best heat source, but my house is very warm at the moment) 4 in. away from the lid. I put in a thin, rough, branched twig for molting and I lightly mist every other day. I'm feeding 2 bbs each every 3 days and I will feed every other day when they are older. I will move them to a large screen chameleon cage after a few molts. any tips or comments on improving this setup?

thanks!


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## frogparty (Aug 11, 2012)

I watched you buy those..... You should take more time to ask the seller about proper care requirements instead of just tossing out your money and taking off


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

they were a killer deal at 12 bucks each. couldn't resist. :lol:


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

frogparty said:


> I watched you buy those..... You should take more time to ask the seller about proper care requirements instead of just tossing out your money and taking off


that wasn't me.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm not stupid enough to do that. :lol:


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## frogparty (Aug 11, 2012)

You said you wanted orchids..... The seller had them too


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## angelofdeathzz (Aug 11, 2012)

Busted!!!


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

I couldn't buy them for 75 bucks!


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

and I read idolos consolidated


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

frogparty said:


> I watched you buy those..... You should take more time to ask the seller about proper care requirements instead of just tossing out your money and taking off


plus the bbs would've hatched


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## agent A (Aug 11, 2012)

frogparty said:


> You said you wanted orchids..... The seller had them too


who was the seller? trans-am??


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

aaaaannnyyyywwwaaayyyy...

still need care tips!

ps. I did ask him I came back to that booth like 4 times!


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## frogparty (Aug 11, 2012)

Ok, you had your dad pay... Same difference. I was at that booth. You were with your dad. Good luck with your idolos. Transam had some really nice bugs too. An cheaper orchids


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

agent A said:


> who was the seller? trans-am??


the trans am I know wouldn't sell orchids 75$ each L2! I think I saw his booth though. There were two mantid sellers.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

frogparty said:


> Ok, you had your dad pay... Same difference. I was at that booth. You were with your dad. Good luck with your idolos. Transam had some really nice bugs too. An cheaper orchids


he didn't have orchids when I checked.


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## frogparty (Aug 11, 2012)

Yes he did....


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## agent A (Aug 11, 2012)

frogparty said:


> Ok, you had your dad pay... Same difference. I was at that booth. You were with your dad. Good luck with your idolos. Transam had some really nice bugs too. An cheaper orchids





Crazy4mantis said:


> the trans am I know wouldn't sell orchids 75$ each L2! I think I saw his booth though. There were two mantid sellers.


i wish i was there to meet the both of u


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

you took them all! jk jk. Maybe had them in the back or something.


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## angelofdeathzz (Aug 11, 2012)

All the care tips you could ever need are already in "Idolomantis consolidated"? It took a while to write...


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## agent A (Aug 11, 2012)

Crazy4mantis said:


> unlesss...  you took them all! jk jk. Maybe had them in the back or something.


well if someone expected me to buy a $75 orchid from them u wouldn't wanna know where they'd end up :tt2:


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## frogparty (Aug 11, 2012)

Trans am's were a bit cheaper than $75!


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

agent A said:


> well if someone expected me to buy a $75 orchid from them u wouldn't wanna know where they'd end up :tt2:


I was talking to frogparty.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

frogparty said:


> Trans am's were a bit cheaper than $75!


74?  

but really I didn't see any orchids and I don't know where he could hide any! :lol: He said all his species were on display. well I should have asked.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

but I'm happy with my idolos and I think they are cooler (not by much though) than orchids.

but any way I can improve my setup? post while I read idolos consolidated. :lol:


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## angelofdeathzz (Aug 11, 2012)

They should have more room than 1 32oz deli to split by L3, you'll wake up with just 1 left soon.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

how bout 10 gal terrarium?


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## Bug Trader (Aug 11, 2012)

Ive seen a bit of cannibalism in a large viv with them at L2/L3, I definitely wouldnt leave them in a ff cup together I have 35 in a 75 gallon doing fine, a ten should do well for 2.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

lol yeah I just found them sparring. :blush: do they really need more bedding than paper towel right now?


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

do they need a hot/cool spot in the tank? I was thinking of putting a lamp on both sides so they can have separate basking areas.


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## Bug Trader (Aug 11, 2012)

Im no expert on this species, I cant help you there but Im going with ambient temp my vivs are 85-95 during the day, I have 4 48'' T8's over each 75 and control the temps by 11'' wide heat tape running under the viv which also brings up humidit due to the damp sphagnum.


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## angelofdeathzz (Aug 11, 2012)

I find 85 to be the sweet spot for temps, in multi enclosure setups higher temps had a shorter life span in general, 95-100 are breeding temps for these contrary to public belief. Much cooler and they don't metabolize food well enough leading to long periods between molts and sometimes (mystery) death. Where they come from has about a 80-85 degree average seasonal temp(Kenya-Tanzania) and is mostly dry till the rainy/monsoon season which is when they are in the final few molts over there, I've done research on this if that helps?


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

what is the night temps?

they were moved to a 2 ft. tall zoomed viv. I covered the mesh lid with paper towel. I have a very good (rough, very branched, thin, doesn't obstruct molting) branch in there.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

do they need a night heater or can they just be at room temps at night? I have a night heater from my old cham that I can use if necessary.


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## angelofdeathzz (Aug 11, 2012)

Room temp (68-72) at night is fine, the cool down will raise the RH and help with molting. Keep in mind they do need ventilation?


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## Krissim Klaw (Aug 11, 2012)

Lol, you know the mantis hobby is a small world when people can tell by a post that they saw the person make the buy in person.  

No advice but good luck.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

angelofdeathzz said:


> Room temp (68-72) at night is fine, the cool down will raise the RH and help with molting. Keep in mind they do need ventilation?


I open the cage several times a day, a little gets trough the lid and around the door, and there is a small ventilation strip near the floor. is this enough for now? when I have extra time I will remove the paper towel and hot glue twigs to the roof.

don't know what I'm going to do in the winter when night temps can drop below 60.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

I may be able to do the gluing tomorrow


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

they can't molt from paper towel, right? not enough footholds.


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## angelofdeathzz (Aug 11, 2012)

L1 and L2 can but no guarantee's after that, and not all paper towel are equally as good, you want the thick-fibered kind, but sticks with bark are the way to go.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

ok a few things caught my mind. the L2 has a small black line/spot on the front of it's eye. is this an infection? also, the L3 keeps looking hungrily at the L2, but it hasn't moved after it yet. are these guys completely communal at this stage? the L3 might just be alarmed.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 11, 2012)

angelofdeathzz said:


> L1 and L2 can but no guarantee's after that, and not all paper towel are equally as good, you want the thick-fibered kind, but sticks with bark are the way to go.


it's bounty.


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## Bug Trader (Aug 11, 2012)

Could be an injury from them being in the FF cup together. Ive seen them get nasty with each other over terrirtories


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## angelofdeathzz (Aug 11, 2012)

If they're kept to close to each other they will try and steal food from the others raptors and that can be it for one of them when they don't stop at the fly. Need pics to see about dots on eyes? Is it the false pupil?


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 12, 2012)

I've seen mantids where the entire front of the eye is black.

It's not the false pupil. I can't take pics bcause it is so tiny. I might need to hire precarious. :lol:


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 12, 2012)

I've seen many mantids with black spots on the eyes and one with the entire eye exploded (yes, that is the right word) off. It was still moving and climbing just fine! I noticed the eyes turn black during night hunting and right b4 death. Also heard that eye infection is fatal. Do these black spots mean something?


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## angelofdeathzz (Aug 12, 2012)

Never had a eye explode, or the black eye people do speak of from time to time(with 600+ mantis of many species) but I also give all my mantis plenty of room, and I think that matters alot in the rubbing on the sides of enclosures to get it in the first place?


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 12, 2012)

I found one in my garden with an exploded eye and black "tar" all over it's head. It was weird...

Ok so this is my final setup for now. Please comment on any flaws

Enclosure

About 2 ft. X 1 ft. Exo terra vivarium (will the glass sides be a problem?) with sticks hot glued all over the mesh top. It has 3 layers of paper towel on the bottem for humidity and a branched thin branch that has many branches on the bottom half and almost none in the top half so it does not interfere with molting. I don't want water stains from misting so I pour in a bit of water on the towels for humidity. It has a 100 watt flourescent bulb very close to the top on one side. Should I raise it?

Feeding

I'm giving 4 bbs every other day (making sure each one gets 2). do refrigerated flies need gutload?

Do I need bedding? For humidity and to help cushion falls. Maybe tropical reptile bedding.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 12, 2012)

Oh and the light is on a timer 6-8 o'clock.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 12, 2012)

I'm going to shorten the hours in the winter.


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## Rick (Aug 12, 2012)

A lamp four inches from a deli cup sounds like it will be too hot. Are you monitoring the temps in the cup?


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 12, 2012)

It is a exoterra vivarium. I just moved them. I'm going to the pet store today for a thermometer. I should have gotten that heat gun at the reptile fair.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 12, 2012)

how long until I need to get a bigger enclosure? I'm thinking maybe L6?


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 12, 2012)

the dot looks like a few cells of his compound eye turned black. it hasn't grown bigger overnight so I'm guessing it's not an infection.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 12, 2012)

the L2 just threat posed the L3!


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## agent A (Aug 12, 2012)

Rick said:


> A lamp four inches from a deli cup sounds like it will be too hot. Are you monitoring the temps in the cup?


that's how hertarem45 set his room on fire...


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 12, 2012)

Ok they stopped fighting. how long until I need to get a bigger enclosure? These vivs are EXPENSIVE! A 12x12x24 cost 60 bucks! Maybe I will just get a fish tank, but then I lose the handy front door!


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 12, 2012)

they seem to be going crazy trying to get between the twigs and to the light. also they keep shoving their heads into the gap between the lid and tank. anyone else have this behavior? and will they calm down as they get older? maybe the light is too close, but it is not too hot.


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## agent A (Aug 12, 2012)

Crazy4mantis said:


> they seem to be going crazy trying to get between the twigs and to the light. also they keep shoving their heads into the gap between the lid and tank. anyone else have this behavior? and will they calm down as they get older? maybe the light is too close, but it is not too hot.


my subadult idolo does this &lt;_&lt;


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## brancsikia339 (Aug 12, 2012)

agent A said:


> my subadult idolo does this &lt;_&lt;


Ditto with my adult female &lt;_&lt;


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## agent A (Aug 12, 2012)

brancsikia339 said:


> Ditto with my adult female &lt;_&lt;


 &lt;_&lt;


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## brancsikia339 (Aug 12, 2012)

My adult male is also quite active. The female is suprisingly more active than the male &lt;_&lt;


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## angelofdeathzz (Aug 12, 2012)

Sometimes they want out more than most species... :taz:


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 12, 2012)

so how long until I need a bigger setup?


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 12, 2012)

idolos are a very &lt;_&lt; species.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 13, 2012)

Will a 55 gal. Work for 2 adults?


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## brancsikia339 (Aug 13, 2012)

I keep my idolos separate, but 55 gallons would be enough.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 13, 2012)

geez, I hope these guys make it to adult! and 2 Idolos in a decorated 55 gallon tank would look epic!


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## frogparty (Aug 13, 2012)

it would definitely be nice for them. I hate seeing mantis, which make awesome display animals, in deli cups their whole lives.


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## angelofdeathzz (Aug 13, 2012)

frogparty said:


> it would definitely be nice for them. I hate seeing mantis, which make awesome display animals, in deli cups their whole lives.


I'm with you on that!


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 13, 2012)

now I need to dig that tank out of the back of my garage.


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## aNisip (Aug 13, 2012)

Okay okay, it was quite amusing reading frogparty's 'call-outs' against you in the beginning  Anyway as far as advice goes you Idolomantis Consolidated which will answer most of your questions/concerns and Nick knows what he is talking about when it comes to Idolos...but just be careful of cooking them; what I mean is if you left them in that plastic container and heated them up with that light for much longer you would have some dead Idolos (ventilation is key)...

All the best,

Andrew


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 14, 2012)

they hang out on the stick covered screen lid, so I think there is enough ventilation for them.

the dot on the L2's eye has not grown any bigger, so it is probably not infected. maybe a scratch or something. hopefully few molts will fix it.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 14, 2012)

in idolos consolidated, it says they can eat bees from L3 and up. I thought it would be healthier with the natural gut load in bees and they are easier to feed. but my L3 looks waaaay too small to catch bees IMO. should I wait till L4?


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 14, 2012)

also does the "females eat more then males" thing start this early? my L2 seems to eat more than my L3


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 14, 2012)

and what instar do the molts get REALLY hard for these guys. I might try precarious's "safety net" and build a "molting enclosure" when the molts get too hard.


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## brancsikia339 (Aug 17, 2012)

my idolos starting eating bees around L5. The hardest molts are the first and the last. As the idolos get past L5-L6, they're heavy so you need to "safety proof" as you say the cage at that point.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 17, 2012)

Is misting required? I just pour water on the paper towels on the bottem for humidity. Is that enough? Misting makes water stains on the walls (glass enclosure) so I try to avoid doing it if possible.


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## Norlin (Aug 21, 2012)

I don't mist mine, but there is a small 2 ounce deli cup inside with some wood chips that I keep water in for the flies. As far as catching larger prey, if you look at them when they stretch out their arms, they're a whole lot bigger than the look when they're just sitting still.


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## brancsikia339 (Aug 21, 2012)

Crazy4mantis said:


> Is misting required? I just pour water on the paper towels on the bottem for humidity. Is that enough? Misting makes water stains on the walls (glass enclosure) so I try to avoid doing it if possible.


Of course they require misting!!!!! Once or twice per day!!! They need the wetness and humidity and they're gonna mismolt if you dont mist it. They're native to the rainforests of Africa


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 21, 2012)

some people say to keep them bone dry.

anyways, I guess I will have to sacrifice my crystal clear enclosure walls and mist them. :lol:


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## brancsikia339 (Aug 21, 2012)

You should really use net cages. They do best in them. I raised two idolos from baby to adult in the same two net cages they started in.

You can get them here: http://www.livemonarch.com/store_enclosures.php


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 22, 2012)

I have several net cages.

I thought someone said that mesh was bad. Or is that just metal mesh? I have a livemonarch jumbo, a small metal mesh cage (prob too small), and a huge metal mesh chameleon cage. I'm going to use the zoomed until about L4 so I can keep track of them.


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## Norlin (Aug 22, 2012)

Crazy4mantis said:


> some people say to keep them bone dry.
> 
> anyways, I guess I will have to sacrifice my crystal clear enclosure walls and mist them. :lol:


You can keep them clear, just use distilled water, that way you don't have the impurities in it that cause droplet stains on the glass.


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## brancsikia339 (Aug 22, 2012)

Crazy4mantis said:


> I have several net cages.
> 
> I thought someone said that mesh was bad. Or is that just metal mesh? I have a livemonarch jumbo, a small metal mesh cage (prob too small), and a huge metal mesh chameleon cage. I'm going to use the zoomed until about L4 so I can keep track of them.


Use the livemonarch jumbo. I used the livemonarch small but that should work even better


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 22, 2012)

It's going to take a lot of money to heat that thing, though.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 23, 2012)

The L2 just molted perfectly.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 23, 2012)

but it's threat posing flies. How long until it can eat?


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## brancsikia339 (Aug 23, 2012)

About 2 - 3 days


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 23, 2012)

ok thanks. I can't use the live monarch jumbo because it won't support a lamp and it's too big. Can I use the bigger cham cage with "modifications" like sticks on the walls etc.?


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 23, 2012)

lol the cham cage is almost the same size. My mom won't like that thing in the living room. :lol: well my living room is already filled with plants and mantids so a huge cage won't really make a difference. :lol:


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## brancsikia339 (Aug 23, 2012)

what i do is i use a stand to hold up the lamp so that it is suspended above the net cage. I guess sticks glued to the top of the cham cage would work? Don't quote me on this.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 25, 2012)

The older L3 may be molting soon.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 26, 2012)

perfect L4 molt. they grow so much in 1 molt! the L4 is so much bigger than the L3!


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 26, 2012)

Can L4 eat bees? I'm out of flies.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 27, 2012)

Will the instar difference be a problem? Can the L4 eat bees? Also is there any other insects they eat? I'm out of flies and I can't catch them. My traps never work. I put a OILY FATTY APPLE SAUSAGE in there and NOTHING,


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## brancsikia339 (Aug 27, 2012)

Crazy4mantis said:


> Will the instar difference be a problem? Can the L4 eat bees? Also is there any other insects they eat? I'm out of flies and I can't catch them. My traps never work. I put a OILY FATTY APPLE SAUSAGE in there and NOTHING,


L4's will be able to eat small bees such as sweat bees


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 27, 2012)

(rick forgive me, I am out of options!) honeybees?


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 27, 2012)

How can you tell between africanized and regular honeybees? I don't want to kill good bugs


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## brancsikia339 (Aug 27, 2012)

Sorry. You probably wont be able to distinguish them, as africanized bees are a result of crossbreeding the european honeybee (our honeybee) and a few other sp.

But after reading this, you may not want to go honey bee hunting: http://www.telegraph...extinction.html

Try yellowjackets, paper wasps, or spider wasps. They don't help our planet in any way


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 30, 2012)

I finally found flies! they sit on the pavement and plants in the morning and I catch them b4 school. don't need bees anymore.


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## brancsikia339 (Aug 31, 2012)

Crazy4mantis said:


> I finally found flies! they sit on the pavement and plants in the morning and I catch them b4 school. don't need bees anymore.


Sorry for going fftopic: but you're in school already? I don't start till Wednesday.


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## Crazy4mantis (Aug 31, 2012)

I started on monday, but I had pretty much no work for the last week.


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## Crazy4mantis (Sep 8, 2012)

Another Perfect L4 molt!


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 8, 2012)

Crazy4mantis said:


> Another Perfect L4 molt!


great!!


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## Crazy4mantis (Sep 8, 2012)

Now's when the "intensive care" starts. :lol:


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## Crazy4mantis (Sep 12, 2012)

they don't seem to like the twigs on the roof. they always hang on the small spots of mesh in between the twigs. will they be able to molt to L5 on the mesh? I think L5s would start hanging on the twigs due to their size but until then?


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## Crazy4mantis (Sep 13, 2012)

Perfect L5 molt! these guys are growing FAST! Maybe I feed too much...


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 13, 2012)

Crazy4mantis said:


> Perfect L5 molt! these guys are growing FAST! Maybe I feed too much...


they grow very fast


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## Crazy4mantis (Sep 15, 2012)

Looks like I have 2 males.


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 15, 2012)

Crazy4mantis said:


> Looks like I have 2 males.


That isn't exactly bad! Males are really rare for this species!!!


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## Crazy4mantis (Sep 15, 2012)

Yeah but they have shorter lifespans and I'm not planning on breeding.


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 15, 2012)

Crazy4mantis said:


> Yeah but they have shorter lifespans and I'm not planning on breeding.


Oh, well in that case


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## lancaster1313 (Sep 15, 2012)

Perhaps you can trade one for a female. It looks as if people are in need of males.


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## Crazy4mantis (Sep 16, 2012)

would a 10 gal fish tank work for 2 adults? it's only 1 foot tall and I'm afraid it might interfere with molting.


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## agent A (Sep 16, 2012)

i could use a male lol


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## Crazy4mantis (Sep 23, 2012)

Can L5 eat bees?


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## brancsikia339 (Sep 23, 2012)

Yes


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## Crazy4mantis (Oct 6, 2012)

another perfect L5 molt.

is a fully screened enclosure ok if I move them to a viv for molting?


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## Crazy4mantis (Oct 15, 2012)

Ones gonna molt to L6 tonight. his front legs are on the twigs and and his rear legs are on mesh. does he have a good enough grip?


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## Crazy4mantis (Oct 17, 2012)

still not molted! been a few days since he started not eating and he had liquid on his raptors yesterday. I have enough heat, support, and RH. is something wrong or does it just take a long time to molt?


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## Crazy4mantis (Oct 18, 2012)

still nothing. still refusing food.

he rotated his body around though. shouldn't he be staying still if he's molting?


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## angelofdeathzz (Oct 18, 2012)

Here's you tip... You should of had a V8. B)


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## Crazy4mantis (Oct 18, 2012)

lol

he keeps moving around the lid instead of finding a molting spot, yet it's been several days since I first saw the signs of molting. does this molt just take a while?


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## angelofdeathzz (Oct 18, 2012)

Older Idolo don't molt well in a deli (lid as you said), you need more space for him.


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## Crazy4mantis (Oct 18, 2012)

he's in a small exoterra viv


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## fleurdejoo (Oct 19, 2012)

If u really think it's gonna molt I would cank te humidity up!


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## Mime454 (Oct 19, 2012)

My idolos are not growing. I have 2 stuck for more than 1.5 months at L5 and 2 stuck for 2 months at L4. I have a heating light on them, and am giving them as many moths as they will take.


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## fleurdejoo (Oct 19, 2012)

I swear Michael, crank up the humidity!

Like 80%, that's when mine that were close went blammo!


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## angelofdeathzz (Oct 19, 2012)

Yep, like Jude said the best thing you can do is raise the RH, one way I keep it high is to soak the substrate(must be fairly clean or it will mold) to where its like a damp sponge with no extra standing water, I've switched from S moss to small pet bedding(paper mulch) as it doesn't break down and turn into a dusty hard to clean mess, plus it resists mold VERY well.


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## mantid_mike (Oct 19, 2012)

One of my Idolos molted to sub-adult a couple days ago. I think I waited about over a month for that molt to happen. :sleeping:


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## gripen (Oct 19, 2012)

Mime454 said:


> My idolos are not growing. I have 2 stuck for more than 1.5 months at L5 and 2 stuck for 2 months at L4. I have a heating light on them, and am giving them as many moths as they will take.


I had one stuck at L6 for 8 months. She just died. I guess I had really bad conditions.


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## Crazy4mantis (Oct 20, 2012)

molt successful!


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## Crazy4mantis (Nov 18, 2012)

another successful molt


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## fleurdejoo (Nov 23, 2012)

Hey Gripen how many Idolo's do you keep?


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## gripen (Nov 23, 2012)

None at the moment.


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