# newbie with problem



## sevenoaks (Jan 9, 2010)

i took a adult female mantis inside on a cold november morning while she clung to my patio chair. she has been inside ever since in a plastic tub 8"X12" with coco noir as substrate. i am new to this so i didnt know how else to set her up.i put some sticks from outside and a twig of a bush she lived in. she is in room temp and i have a paper cup cut down with some water in it for humidity and for her to drink(?) i used to spray the substrate but it got mold on it. i give her one cricket every couple of days and i am feeding the crickets potatoes. the other day i noticed my mantis slowing down. she was on the ground and her wing tip was a bit bent. she had some substrate on her .next thing i know i hear her falling from the top of the cage(she never could get a footing on the plastic top) well she feel once and i looked and she was on the ground sideways hardly moving. i thought she was dying. well i had a cricket in there with her and i immediatley took it out so she could die in peace without the cricket knawing at her. well the next morning i was afraid to look to see if she was dead on the ground but she was on one stick with white foam coming out of her butt. i think she layed eggs! she was there for a while and i let her be. well by afternoon she moved away and i put a cricket in there. i dont know if the cricket will eat the egg sac but i thought shed be hungrey since she hasnt eatten in days. i sprayed her face with spring water and let her be. she ate the cricket and i think wanted another. i left her alone until tomorrow. but my question is , is she going to die now? is the egg sac safe if i put crickets in there. she doesnt seem to like meal worms and they get lost in her tub. can i put the egg sac outside now or wait till spring. will it hatch inside her tub? i am not familiar with any of this so forgive me , i just want some help. thanks


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 9, 2010)

She should be fine if she is not to old, she needs to be misted every day with some water, warm very warm water. she also needs a couple crickets every day to eat, she is not eating enought, make sure she eats them, and take them away after awhile if she doesnt. the ooth will hatch in 6 weeks or so, keep it inside and have fun waiting for them, put it in a mayo jar with some cloth and a rubber band for the lid, glue it to a stick and stick it in there, be careful to not use high heat if u use a glue gun. sorry if I am out of order witht he directions, just trying to type fast. spray the ooth a few times a week and it will hatch.


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## sevenoaks (Jan 9, 2010)

is it ok to give her only crickets? i tried mealworms and she didnt eat/find them in her cage. is it ok to spray her with tap water. ive read it has to be spring water? my mantis has been alone since november as far as i know. is her ooph fertile? how will i know? when do i realease the babies if they hatch ?.why cant i leave them on the stick they are on(stuck on a stick pretty well) and not glue them? i dont understand that.

ive read her belly can burst if i feed to much . that is why i didnt give too many crickets.

i need help . thank you.

p.s. i just ordered stuff from your website, great site! i learned alot. just not sure the ooph is fertile at this point.

she is a Chinese mantis. i live in new york. she is green and brown


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## MantidLord (Jan 10, 2010)

Congratulations. Since you caught her as an adult, she's probably fertile. And yes, take the ooth out of the container. Crix will eat ooths! Determining what species you have could help in advising the best conditions for the ooth. But seeing as how you found the mother outside, it's safe to place the ooth outside where it will hatch later on in the wild. But if you do want to keep some nymphs, follow hibiscumile's advice in hanging the ooths. You can put the ooths in a container outside, place them in the fridge or keep them in your room. Good luck.


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## Rick (Jan 10, 2010)

The mantis is likely at the end of its life and will die from old age before too long. Mist the insides of the enclosure once a day lightly. You don't need a dish of water or even a substrate. Any ooths laid are most likely fertile since it is a wild caught mantis.

Also, please introduce yourself in the introductions forum.


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## sevenoaks (Jan 10, 2010)

ok i just bought a bunch of stuff for the babies but i really dont want to care for them as i dont feel comfortable. i will keep the ooth inside the house and mist it with warm spring water until when? when do i put it outside. will it hatch inside in six weeks as i read? i just feel bad putting it outside in the freezing snow. should i put it outside now. its been three days since she layed it.

she looks really skinny now. she used to have a belly and that is why i didnt feed her lots of crickets. i will feed her a cricket daily from now on. will she make it till spring? thanks.


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## MantidLord (Jan 10, 2010)

sevenoaks said:


> ok i just bought a bunch of stuff for the babies but i really dont want to care for them as i dont feel comfortable. i will keep the ooth inside the house and mist it with warm spring water until when? when do i put it outside. will it hatch inside in six weeks as i read? i just feel bad putting it outside in the freezing snow. should i put it outside now. its been three days since she layed it. she looks really skinny now. she used to have a belly and that is why i didnt feed her lots of crickets. i will feed her a cricket daily from now on. will she make it till spring? thanks.


No, she'll probably pass within the next few weeks. Chances are this isn't the first ooth she's layed. You could put the ooth outside (because that's what would happen naturally), or you can do what everyone else said and keep it indoors or put it in your fridge. Once spring comes you can place it outside like normal or hatch it yourself and release the nymphs. Can you describe how the female looks?


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## hibiscusmile (Jan 10, 2010)

If ooth is on a stick it is fine on it. If u put it outside, don't mist it, it will be ok like it is. ps, it wont hatch until spring if u put it outside, but this is a good chance for you to learn about them first hand if u keep it inside to hatch it.


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## sevenoaks (Jan 10, 2010)

MantidLord said:


> No, she'll probably pass within the next few weeks. Chances are this isn't the first ooth she's layed. You could put the ooth outside (because that's what would happen naturally), or you can do what everyone else said and keep it indoors or put it in your fridge. Once spring comes you can place it outside like normal or hatch it yourself and release the nymphs. Can you describe how the female looks?


she keeps falling off the sides and i hope she isnt hurting herself. she had a huge belly before she layed and now its pretty flat. i put another cricket in the tub today and she hasnt eatten it. i dont know what else to do for her. she is in room temp. should i put a heat light on part of the tub? she lost an anteanea and one of the middle back feet and the end of the stub looks black. she ate a cricket yesterday but not for three days before because i didnt know to feed her daily. how long do you think she has?


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## MantidLord (Jan 10, 2010)

sevenoaks said:


> she keeps falling off the sides and i hope she isnt hurting herself. she had a huge belly before she layed and now its pretty flat. i put another cricket in the tub today and she hasnt eatten it. i dont know what else to do for her. she is in room temp. should i put a heat light on part of the tub? she lost an anteanea and one of the middle back feet and the end of the stub looks black. she ate a cricket yesterday but not for three days before because i didnt know to feed her daily. how long do you think she has?


Yeah, this is typical behavior for aging mantids. They're "feet" seem to deteriorate and/or fall off and they just seem like they're, well, dying. Sorry, but there's nothing you can really do for her. I'd take the cricket out so she can die in piece. You could try to release her so she can die in the wild or even try the "freezer method" that other members (excluding me) use. Considering the time period (January), she's lived a very long life. Hopefully the ooth she layed was fertile and most likely that wasn't her first.

After looking at the pic, I looks like a Chinese. The ooth should hatch anywhere from 50-200 nymphs (correct me someone if I'm wrong). they typically die out at this time, so don't feel bad.


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## Rick (Jan 10, 2010)

She is old. Everything you are describing is normal.


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## sevenoaks (Jan 10, 2010)

thank you so much for all the help / replies for my friend. i think she ate the cricket as i cant find it in the tub with her. i will continue to spray her with warm water daily and keep feeding her and making sure she eats. if she doesnt in one day ill take the cricket out so it wont eat her! i would never put her outside now. its freezing and i would rather her die in her home where its warm and comfy. shes been living in it since novemeber and she hasnt tried to get out like she did in the begining. she must like it in there. i am hoping i can care for the babies that she left me...


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## MantidLord (Jan 10, 2010)

Wait a minute: you've had her since November and she just layed an ooth? That sounds a bit weird, especially now that she's passing away soon afterward. I'm not sure of the intervals between ooth laying for this sp., but that sounds a bit long.


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## sevenoaks (Jan 10, 2010)

MantidLord said:


> Wait a minute: you've had her since November and she just layed an ooth? That sounds a bit weird, especially now that she's passing away soon afterward. I'm not sure of the intervals between ooth laying for this sp., but that sounds a bit long.


i dont know but i know its a Chinese Mantis from what i have been seeing in pictures on the internet. i am new to all of this so i just want to give her the best care. she was found in the wild on a cold november morning and i scooped her up and brought her in. i dont know why she layed an ooth. does anyone know why this sounds weird? thanks


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## Rick (Jan 10, 2010)

All he was saying is that it seemed a long time she was in your care before laying an ooth. Diet has a lot to do with it though.


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## sevenoaks (Jan 10, 2010)

ok. all i gave her every two or three days was crickets from the pet store. i feed them potatoe. i tried mealworms but she didnt see them in her tub. i think she might have eatten one. did i do something wrong?


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## Rick (Jan 10, 2010)

sevenoaks said:


> ok. all i gave her every two or three days was crickets from the pet store. i feed them potatoe. i tried mealworms but she didnt see them in her tub. i think she might have eatten one. did i do something wrong?


No and you don't need to worry about it. New people to this hobby tend to worry far to much. Browse the posts here and learn what you can.


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## sevenoaks (Jan 10, 2010)

ok thanks. i just want to do the best for her in her last days here.

i will try to hatch the ooth . i decided not to put it outside. i bought a tub and stuff made especially for nymphs but i am sure i will be asking tons of questions. sorry. i am trying to read as much as i can. i get mixed messages sometimes. i take what you say to heart.

if it is fertile it will hatch in 6 weeks? i will spray the ooth twice a day with warm water. should i put it in the sun anytime of day as it comes into the windows here.?

when they hatch , i will feed them little fruit flys i can buy in my pet store i saw today. any other car i should know about for nymphs. oh yea, i should spray them once a day with warm water too. will there be dead ones to clean out? how many fruit flies should i put in first? i will have the nymphs in their own container made for them. i want them to survive so i can put them outside (when&gt;???) thanks again. sorry im just very nervous


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## MantidLord (Jan 10, 2010)

Rick said:


> All he was saying is that it seemed a long time she was in your care before laying an ooth. Diet has a lot to do with it though.


Good catch Rick. I didn't see that there was a "dramatic" difference in the amount of food he gave his pregnant mantis (even though he was unaware) and the amount of food most of us give expecting females.

Don't worry sevenoaks, there's still a good chance that it is fertile. And yeah, go ahead and browse some old threads that will give you plenty of info.  As far as *why* she laid an ooth, I'm sure you can imagine the answer


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## MantidLord (Jan 10, 2010)

Oops, double post. Never happened to me before.


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## sevenoaks (Jan 10, 2010)

how much should i have been feeding and how do you know she is pregnant( for future use ) thanks. i hope i didnt harm the ooth or her by not feeding the correct amount.


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## MantidLord (Jan 10, 2010)

sevenoaks said:


> how much should i have been feeding and how do you know she is pregnant( for future use ) thanks. i hope i didnt harm the ooth or her by not feeding the correct amount.


No, you should be fine, after all they don't always get to gorge themselves in the wild. I'm just saying that breeders typically stuff their females once they've been mated (and before actually to avoid cannibalism). You didn't know that she was pregnant obviously and there is no real way of knowing (unless you witnessed mating) besides her girth (which isn't reliable because she could have just ate a large meal. They're are other "signs", but these usually appear right before the egg laying process begins. She and the ooth (assuming it's fertile) should be fine. And to answer a possible future question, I say "assuming it's fertile" because very often a mantis will lay an infertile ooth filled with unfertilized eggs. But since yours was caught outside as an adult, it is possible that she mated before being brought inside. There really isn't a correct amount, it's just breeders feel comfortable making sure their mantids are fully nutritious before they lay. This can possibly increase ooth size and maybe even the strength of the unhatched nymphs.


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## sevenoaks (Jan 10, 2010)

oh thanks. i feel a bit better. what are the signs of a mantis ready to lay if you dont mind me asking. thanks again.


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## MantidLord (Jan 10, 2010)

sevenoaks said:


> oh thanks. i feel a bit better. what are the signs of a mantis ready to lay if you dont mind me asking. thanks again.


No problem. Well in my experience, the female will stop eating for a short period. She can be seen "testing" the structure that she is on to determine whether or not that is where she will lay. "Testing" can be described as the female rubbing the tip of her abdomen on whatever structure she may be on. She'll bend her abdomen down and just rub it along while kind of scraping it. I guess it's testing whether or not the structure can support her ooth (wonder why you never see ooths layed on a blade of grass?). It's kind of hard to describe and I wish I had a pic. And of course, she'll be moving less once she finds a suitable place to lay (from an hour to a day in my experience) before she lays. Of course once you get the hang of it, you can kind of predict when she will lay, as they start to get a pattern if temp, food, and other conditions are constant.


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## sevenoaks (Jan 10, 2010)

i guess i was asking because i thought she was dying the day before she layed. (maybe she still is) strange how nature works. she lays to carry her species on before she dies. she kept falling and she just layed on the ground sideways after one fall and i thought it was it for her. by morning she was laying after i thought id find her dead on the ground where she was laying. maybe this ooth isnt fertile because i think she must have layed before outside before november. dont know how she had this ooth in her becasue she is weak and ready to die. amazing.


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## MantidLord (Jan 10, 2010)

sevenoaks said:


> i guess i was asking because i thought she was dying the day before she layed. (maybe she still is) strange how nature works. she lays to carry her species on before she dies. she kept falling and she just layed on the ground sideways after one fall and i thought it was it for her. by morning she was laying after i thought id find her dead on the ground where she was laying. maybe this ooth isnt fertile because i think she must have layed before outside before november. dont know how she had this ooth in her becasue she is weak and ready to die. amazing.


They can lay ooths countless times after mating once, so you won't know if it's fertile until it does or doesn't hatch. I had a M. religiosa female who got very weak after mating. She still kept her voracious appetite but it was harder for her to climb trees etc. Then she finally laid an ooth and she was halfway back to normal. Then it started up again. She laid her second ooth and then died a couple of days later. Maybe "weakness" does coincide with nearing ooth laying. Just never count them out. But in your case, I doubt she'd lay another ooth so soon plus the fact that it's January points to her not having long to live. Nature is indeed strange my friend. But it's also wonderful, especially when you see all the little nymphs looking just like their mom, scattered everywhere in a container. Good luck. You should read Peter's guide for caring for an ooth.


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## sevenoaks (Jan 11, 2010)

thanks again. how do i find peters guide


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## Katnapper (Jan 11, 2010)

sevenoaks said:


> thanks again. how do i find peters guide


http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9597


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## JoeCapricorn (Jan 11, 2010)

All of my Chinese mantises had died by the end of November, you are blessed to still have one this long!

Emerald was the only one of my Chinese mantises to lay ooths. She laid two, and in both cases they were laid on sticks pretty much away from the reach of any crickets. I put those ooths outside in the garden on the side of my house, she was buried in the same spot not too long after. I hope they hatch!


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## sevenoaks (Jan 11, 2010)

thanks, she actually ate two large crickets today. i feel so bad that i didnt feed her enough while she was pregnant. i didnt know as i read online somewhere to feed her every three days! and it also said her belly could rupture if i fed too much and her belly looked huge(babies) so i thought she was full but it was babies so i didnt offer any food. i also never sprayed her until i read it here. i feel so bad.


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## -MK- (Jan 11, 2010)

Don't feel bad; you saved her from a frosty death by bringing her into your home. You're one of the few people lucky enough to still have a live mantis from last summer. My last one died about a month ago and my gf's last one died last week.


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## charleyandbecky (Jan 12, 2010)

Yes, you are quite lucky. My last summer Chinese male died on Christmas Day. I still have 2 female Carolinas from the summer but every day I fear more for their health.

You have done great with her and given her a comfortable home!

Rebecca


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## sevenoaks (Jan 12, 2010)

thanks guys. i have been giving her lots of crickets now. i hand feed her (hand it to her) because she may be too weak to catch it. she doesnt move much. could it be she was born later in the year (summer)and not in spring and that is why she is still alive?


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## Katnapper (Jan 12, 2010)

sevenoaks said:


> thanks guys. i have been giving her lots of crickets now. i hand feed her (hand it to her) because she may be too weak to catch it. she doesnt move much. could it be she was born later in the year (summer)and not in spring and that is why she is still alive?


Good chance that is true, as they are usually born in the spring or early summer.


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## sevenoaks (Jan 12, 2010)

yea she seems like a summer bug! LOL

i just tried giving her a tiny bit of banana she grabed at it and it fell, but she is now licking her arm barbs(sorry dont know the correct name) i know i should be feeding her more than just crickets but i dont have access to anything but red worms and super and meal worms and she didnt go for them. i should try again. maybe if i hand it to her like i did the cricket. ill get more today.


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## MantidLord (Jan 12, 2010)

sevenoaks said:


> yea she seems like a summer bug! LOL i just tried giving her a tiny bit of banana she grabed at it and it fell, but she is now licking her arm barbs(sorry dont know the correct name) i know i should be feeding her more than just crickets but i dont have access to anything but red worms and super and meal worms and she didnt go for them. i should try again. maybe if i hand it to her like i did the cricket. ill get more today.


You can keep her just on crickets. Or try to coat the crickets in honey or something. They won't take just a plain banana. Lol


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## sevenoaks (Jan 12, 2010)

just gave her a meal worm and she took it. i tried a wax worm and she didnt budge but i think she was sleeping when i was dangling it in front of her face with tweezers . she jumped a bit after a while.

i cant believe now i am caring for her properly when she is gonna die!


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## charleyandbecky (Jan 12, 2010)

sevenoaks said:


> just gave her a meal worm and she took it. i tried a wax worm and she didnt budge but i think she was sleeping when i was dangling it in front of her face with tweezers . she jumped a bit after a while.i cant believe now i am caring for her properly when she is gonna die!


It IS sad when they start to decline, but maybe she will start a love of mantids for you and you can have and enjoy others. I'll always remember my first mantis. He was special.

Rebecca


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## elf run1 (Jan 12, 2010)

lol im sure you will do fine this was my first year and i had some worries...but now i have 6 ooths hatched....lots of little mantises running around and still a lot more to hatch...have fun :lol: 

p.s. my last adult died november 23rd but like i siad im busy with the nymphs now some of wich has molted twice.


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## sevenoaks (Jan 20, 2010)

well its been ten days after i last posted and my mantis is still alive and doing well i might add. she is feeding on crickets everyday! am i giving her too many now?

i spray the ooth every other day or so and place it in the sun by the window. i am hoping it doesnt dry out since the heat is on because of the cold weather. i will do my best with it as ive read and bought items to care for it. i just dont know when to expect it to start hatching?


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## Katnapper (Jan 20, 2010)

sevenoaks said:


> well its been ten days after i last posted and my mantis is still alive and doing well i might add. she is feeding on crickets everyday! am i giving her too many now?i spray the ooth every other day or so and place it in the sun by the window. i am hoping it doesnt dry out since the heat is on because of the cold weather. i will do my best with it as ive read and bought items to care for it. i just dont know when to expect it to start hatching?


About 4-6 weeks (maybe a little longer) from when it was laid.  Patience waiting for them to hatch is hard... I know.


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## sevenoaks (Jan 30, 2010)

OH NO&gt;. she layed another ooth!!!

what is going on? i thought her belly looked big again , but i have been feeding her one large cricket a day because i thought she was going to die soon. i though that is why her belly was so fat. on my. now what? please help.


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## massaman (Jan 30, 2010)

dont be alarmed its suppose to happen and just take out the ooth and put it in its own container and mist it daily and continue feeding the mantis and keep the ooth warm!


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## Rick (Jan 30, 2010)

sevenoaks said:


> OH NO&gt;. she layed another ooth!!!what is going on? i thought her belly looked big again , but i have been feeding her one large cricket a day because i thought she was going to die soon. i though that is why her belly was so fat. on my. now what? please help.


That is normal. T hey keep laying ooths their entire adult lives.


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## sevenoaks (Jan 30, 2010)

well, what should i do with it. i am nursing the other one she layed about three weeks ago. since she was taken out of the wild in novemeber i am thinking it is fertile. dont know about this one since shes been in a tub since then.


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## Katnapper (Jan 30, 2010)

sevenoaks said:


> well, what should i do with it. i am nursing the other one she layed about three weeks ago. since she was taken out of the wild in novemeber i am thinking it is fertile. dont know about this one since shes been in a tub since then.


Just do the same with this ooth as you have done with the last one. If she is fertile, she wouldn't need mating again between ooths for successive ooths to be fertile also.

Note, sometimes breeders do try to mate the female again after she lays a few ooths to increase chances of fertility in later laid ooths. But I wouldn't worry about this with yours.


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## sevenoaks (Jan 30, 2010)

oh thanks. im so new at this and learning as much as i can here. can i put both ooths in the same container together and wait to hatch or keep them separate? i know which is which because this one she layed on the top of her plastic tub not on a branch i had in there like last time.


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## massaman (Jan 30, 2010)

no

You should keep the ooths separate and mist them in their own container!


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## sevenoaks (Jan 30, 2010)

how do i attach the ooth to a stick because it wasnt layed on one. also is room temp ok for the heat or do i need to keep it near a lamp?

how often do i mist and do i mist with warm or water temp water/ thanks so much


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## sevenoaks (Jan 30, 2010)

oops double post. sorry


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## Katnapper (Jan 30, 2010)

Keeping the ooths in separate containers would be better; because if both end up hatching, you'll have one batch significantly older/larger in size than the other batch... and the smaller ones will likely fall prey to the larger ones. Plus you might end up with too many nymphs in the size of container you are hatching them in, and trying to separate the different sized nymphs would be a nightmare.


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## sevenoaks (Jan 30, 2010)

do i attach it 'zipper' side down. the zipper is the unsmooth side right? thanks again.

is room temp ok for the ooth or do i need extra heat?


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## massaman (Jan 30, 2010)

yes face the zipper to the floor when hanging it and use super glue or glue from a glue gun to attach it to a stick or a piece of plastic or something to attach to the underside of the lid of the containers your using to hatch them!

Room Temp is just fine for most ooths but dont let the temp get below 50 or 60 degrees when trying to hatch them and there is methods to help with keeping the ooth warm like using a styrofoam cooler and use one of them light bulbs in a dish and place a hole in the side of the cooler and stick the dish inside the hole made in the cooler and then place your ooth containers in there with some water on the bottom of the cooler and place maybe a sheet of clear glass or plastic on the top of the cooler but only if you want to use a bulb to incubate them but if not room temp is the way to go!


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## Katnapper (Jan 30, 2010)

No extra heat, styrofoam coolers, or lightbulbs required. Room temperature, mist every couple of days. Wait.


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## sevenoaks (Feb 3, 2010)

well. today she is gone..  

thanks for all your help.

is there any special way to dipose of her? should i bury her outside? any special place.?

i will try my best for her babies.

i just bought 15 crickets for her. yesterday i gave her two instead of one. i should have given her more so she would have been happy...


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## massaman (Feb 3, 2010)

well most of the mantids I had that died would just get the royal flush meaning I would just flush them down the toilet or if you got lizards or any reptiles or birds you could feed the deceased mantis to them as well!


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## Rick (Feb 3, 2010)

You can put the ooths outside and they will hatch in spring. If you keep them indoors they are going to hatch. Make sure you have fruit fly cultures ready to go to feed them.


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## sevenoaks (Feb 3, 2010)

Rick said:


> You can put the ooths outside and they will hatch in spring. If you keep them indoors they are going to hatch. Make sure you have fruit fly cultures ready to go to feed them.


i had the ooths inside and have been misting them and keeping them in the window sill for daytime sun. and night time by a radiator in the house. i think its too late to put them outside .. what do you think.

the first was layed january 9, the last one on sunday.


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## Rick (Feb 3, 2010)

sevenoaks said:


> i had the ooths inside and have been misting them and keeping them in the window sill for daytime sun. and night time by a radiator in the house. i think its too late to put them outside .. what do you think.the first was layed january 9, the last one on sunday.


Not too late at all. They don't need sunlight really. Just warm temps. I can't think of an easier ooth to hatch.


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