# Help ID-ing Ooths from Ebay



## Vespertino (Apr 6, 2015)

Hi everyone, I could use some help IDing some ooths I bought from Ebay a few months ago. They were advertized as Carolina mantis ooths, but I had recently read about some cases of mis-identification of Carolina ooths with Narrow Wing ooths (_Tenodera angustipennis_) by amateurs selling on Ebay.

I'd gone out of my way to buy Carolina ooths because they are native to where I live (DFW Texas) I intend to release most of them into my yard to help with the pest problem, and maybe keep a few as pets and perhaps keep a female or two to breed and collect ooths for next year.

The package contained 3 ooths, I tried looking at images on the web but I cannot tell the difference between the narrow wing and the carolina ooths. Here are pictures of ooths 1-3. Any help with IDing these would be much apprecitated, as narrow wings aren't native around here, if that's what I've got I'll be looking for a new home for the ooths.













Just a note, I'm the oe glued these ooth onto sticks as I was preparing them for the terrarium. They shipped clean without the sticks and glue.

Thanks in advance!


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## CosbyArt (Apr 6, 2015)

Vespertino said:


> Hi everyone, I could use some help IDing some ooths I bought from Ebay a few months ago. They were advertized as Carolina mantis ooths, but I had recently read about some cases of mis-identification of Carolina ooths with Narrow Wing ooths (_Tenodera angustipennis_) by amateurs selling on Ebay.


Sorry to say it but those ooths do not look like Carolina's at all - but what you mentioned, they are the Tenodera angustipennis.

Carolina's have a different coloration, the middle hatching line is smaller/ or edges beside it larger, does not have grooves (ridges) beside the hatching line, and the end stops and doesn't trail off so long. Here are some photos link 1, link 2, and some of my various ooths laid by my Stagmomantis carolina below.  

Someone else was trying to sell them on ebay wrong and a forum user corrected them, and those look just like the ones you have too.


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## agent A (Apr 6, 2015)

either narrow wing or limbata


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## Jay (Apr 6, 2015)

agent A said:


> either narrow wing or limbata


Hey there Agent A,

I have a dozen limbata ooths of different colors and sizes and none of them look like that.

I need to go let some more of my limbata L2s go soon (this is their native territory). I'm running out of little FFs for them! There are some good businesses with dense landscaping near more desert areas that are good release points for this next batch.

Vespertino,

I did collect a variety nearby that looked very similar to your pictures this winter (except a little lighter in color). I sent one to Yen Saw and another to Rebecca to see if either one could ID it. Yen Saw was thinking that it may have been Stagmomantis Californica, though we really cannot be sure until they hatch.


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## MantidBro (Apr 6, 2015)

i agree with CosbyArt, they do look like Tenodera angustipennis. I'd gotten them same oothecae off eBay. And the adult female had laid a lot of oothecae, looking like this.


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## Vespertino (Apr 6, 2015)

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the help very much even though the news is that I got duped!

So I've got 3 Tenodera angustipennis ooths, and 2 chinese ooths free to a good home in their naturalized range.

Can anyone recommend a good seller of Carolina ooths or have any tips for finding an ooth in the wild?


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## Rick (Apr 6, 2015)

T. angustipennis.


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## mantiseater (Apr 6, 2015)

I am sure it is tenodera angustipennis


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## Rick (Apr 7, 2015)

Some pics of T. sinensis and T. angustipennis


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## mantisman 230 (Apr 7, 2015)

Indeed T. angustipennis, I HATE, that they don't do their reading before advertising.


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## PlayingMantis (Apr 7, 2015)

The same thing happened to me. Back in late 2013, when I started to seriously raise mantids, I bought pack of 3 ooths from ebay: T. sinensis, S. carolina, and M. religiosa. The so called "carolina" ooth looks exactly like the pictures in the first post. At that time, I had no idea they weren't carolina ooths. A few weeks later, one of the trusted breeders on this forum sent me some real S. carolina ooths, and I was surprised by how different they looked. Also, the M. religiosa ooth turned out to be hatched. That summer, when nothing happened, I cut it open and it was completely empty.


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## Vespertino (Apr 10, 2015)

Those pictures are so helpful, they're very detailed and the differences between the narrow leaf and carolina ooths are very clear to me now.

Thank you everyone, I'm pretty sad that I'd been duped, or if not intentionally duped that amateur sellers on ebay don't do their homework on ooth ID-ing. So far none of my friends want my ootheca for pet use, on two counts because the spouse doesn't want "bugs in the house". Another one asked me to give them to him for garden release but I outright refused as they're not native to Texas. While they're "naturalized" I don't want to release anything to outcompete the native ones (the narrow wing mantids aren't even found around here, but I think the chinese are). He insisted a few times, but he's not the type to understand the impact of releasing non-native species into the wild- he's just interested in instant gratification to remedy his pest insect problem (and yet he loves to kill spiders- and I rescued a couple in the office from him as he was about to stop on them with his foot-, he's my friend and all but he can also be an idiot).

I haven't had any luck finding carolina ooths for sale (I event posted in the wanted section but so far no responses), so I've started looking in some wild grassy areas for ooths (no luck yet), but it's starting to warm up in Texas and if I do find them I'm not sure if the little mantids would have hatched out by now or not. So if anyone has Carolina ooths for sale, please let me know  I'm actually hoping to find a few to try and repopulate my immediate area with carolinas or texas unicorns.


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## CosbyArt (Apr 10, 2015)

Vespertino said:


> Those pictures are so helpful, they're very detailed and the differences between the narrow leaf and carolina ooths are very clear to me now.
> 
> Thank you everyone, I'm pretty sad that I'd been duped, or if not intentionally duped that amateur sellers on ebay don't do their homework on ooth ID-ing. So far none of my friends want my ootheca for pet use, on two counts because the spouse doesn't and "bugs in the house". Another one asked me to give them to him for garden release but I outright refused as they're not native to Texas. While they're "naturalized" I don't want to release anything to outcompete the native ones (the narrow wing mantids aren't even found around here, but I think the chinese are). He insisted a few times, but he's not the type to understand the impact of releasing non-native species into the wild- he's just interested in instant gratification to remedy his pest insect problem (and yet he loves to kill spiders- and I rescued a couple in the office from him as he was about to stop on them with his foot-, he's my friend and all but he can also be an idiot).
> 
> I haven't had any luck finding carolina ooths for sale (I event posted in the wanted section but so far no responses), so I've started looking in some wild grassy areas for ooths (no luck yet), but it's starting to warm up in Texas and if I do find them I'm not sure if the little mantids would have hatched out by now or not. So if anyone has Carolina ooths for sale, please let me know  I'm actually hoping to find a few to try and repopulate my immediate area with carolinas or texas unicorns.


Glad you know the difference now, at least you can tell for future sales. I'd like to help you out but my Carolina ooths should hatch any day and I'm afraid if I sent you some they would likely hatch during shipment.

If you want some mantis nymphs I'd be willing to ship you several when they hatch, let me know I'd send them to you for the cost of shipping or one of your ooths (I don't have that species yet). I keep them as pets or for trading/selling too.


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## PlayingMantis (Apr 11, 2015)

I just checked ebay and it seems like all the "Carolina" ooths look like _Tenodera angustipennis! _Maybe the sellers aren't intentionally duping people, but they surely aren't doing their homework. Unfortunately, last year, I did not keep my S. carolina's going. I just released them or gave them away. However, I'm not sure how they'd fare in the wild because the local mantis population consists solely of T.sinensis (or possibly T. augustipennis), at least, from my personal observations.


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## Bugmankeith (May 11, 2015)

I'm so mad!

I ordered 20, yes 20 last year of those imitation Carolina ootheca and they are attatched to my shrubs outside. First, I hope they are cold Hardy!

Second, I was buying them to naturalize the Carolina mantis which was once more common in New York but is rare. All that money spent and no Carolinas!

I need hundreds of nymphs so when released they have a chance to establish. People are selling them hatched but I can't afford to pay that kind of money for fast shipping.

Mabtids hatch in June here so I wanted to get the real Carolina ootheca sent here soon!


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## jrh3 (May 12, 2015)

I have a few ooths on the sides of my house. Hoping to get a good turnout of carolinas this year. Goal is to have the surrounding area full of them lol. We also have T. Graminis in the area .


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## Vespertino (May 14, 2015)

I bought a lot of Carolina nymphs from Mikhalis recently, while it was more expensive than buying an ooth it was totally worth it. Hubs is relaxing his "no bugs for pets" rule and I'm hoping some will breed by fall, it's not an instant solution by any means, and it will probably be a year before I can establish some in my garden from any ooths I might get. But I don't mind the wait, I need time to fix up my back yard to add more plants for mantid habitat. The previous owner of my home really loved lawn grass and nothing else.


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