# CosbyArt mantid thread



## CosbyArt (Jul 7, 2015)

I figured it was time to get some photos of my current mantids, as I missed many stages of their development with photos (or the complete lives of others I had). I took all these photos today right before feeding time, and snapped a few while they ate.

Budwing mantid (Parasphendale affinis) just finished molting to L5.







Deadleaf mantid Sammy (Deroplatys lobata) L8






Deadleaf mantid Terry (Deroplatys lobata) L8






Indian Flower mantid (Creobroter pictipennis) L7






Ghost mantid Bandit (Phyllocrania paradoxa) L6. Interesting note on this mantid is I got him at L2 and he only had one forearm, and at L6 still only has one arm (no other arm numb, or growth of any kind).






Ghost mantid Bandit (Phyllocrania paradoxa) L6 eating a blue bottle fly. As you can see he keeps the arm near the middle of his body and has no problem catching flies or small crickets now. When he walks he does a hobble to move his forearm, and if he is in a hurry he'll use his head to fill in for his missing forearm.






Ghost mantid (Phyllocrania paradoxa) L6






Ghost mantid (Phyllocrania paradoxa) L6 eating a blue bottle fly


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## CosbyArt (Jul 7, 2015)

Griffin mantid (Polyspilota griffinii) (Nate 2) L6





Griffin mantid (Polyspilota griffinii) (Kat Poly 3) L6





Japanese boxer mantid (Acromantis japonica) (#2) L6





Japanese boxer mantid (Acromantis japonica) (#3) L6





Double Shield mantid (Pnigomantis medioconstricta) (Kat DS 1) L7





Double Shield mantid (Pnigomantis medioconstricta) (Kat DS 3) L5





Egyptian Pygmy mantid (Miomantis paykullii) L5(?) - the camera ham who will usually pose and stare straight at the camera.





Egyptian Pygmy mantid (Miomantis paykullii) eating a green bottle fly. I found my Pygmy mantids enjoy the bottle flies much more than fruit flies, including the Hydei.


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## LAME (Jul 7, 2015)

Wicked start CosbyArt! And some great photos too! ^_^ 

Im looking forward to seeing this thread grow.


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## dmina (Jul 7, 2015)

Great job... So glad you finally jumped in and started your own collection thread... They all look great.. Thanks for sharing! Looking forward to seeing more...


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## PlayingMantis (Jul 7, 2015)

Nice pics! Glad to see new mantis collection threads!


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## MantidBro (Jul 7, 2015)

Awesome mantids dude!  

Are you sure your D. lobata are male?? Females are usually the ones with the extra molt! And their reproductive organs look female if I'm not mistaken? How long are they atm?


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## CosbyArt (Jul 7, 2015)

MantidBro said:


> Awesome mantids dude!
> 
> Are you sure your D. lobata are male?? Females are usually the ones with the extra molt! And their reproductive organs look female if I'm not mistaken? How long are they atm?


Thanks, they were your babies.  

Ha, I gave up on the guessing game - that is why I did not list any sex male/female labels in my photos. They are just shy of 2 1/2" from the top of their head to the end of their abdomens. If you want to give it a try feel free, here are two shots of Sammy's abdomen.


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## MantidBro (Jul 7, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> Thanks, they were your babies.
> 
> Ha, I gave up on the guessing game - that is why I did not list any sex male/female labels in my photos. They are just shy of 2 1/2" from the top of their head to the end of their abdomens. If you want to give it a try feel free, here are two shots of Sammy's abdomen.
> 
> ...


Female after all! Lol i guess i did sex them correctly!  females are exactly 3" as adults.


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## LAME (Jul 7, 2015)

CosbyArt, since the three of us (you,mantidbro,and myself...) lucked out on our pairs and I seem to be the last male owner of our group... I'm willing to donate my male (Gump.) in the name of the "greater cause".

Though he's still young and has alot of catching up to do... He's available if you're interested. I'm open to holding onto him for you, just pm me and let me know.


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## CosbyArt (Jul 8, 2015)

MantidBro said:


> Female after all! Lol i guess i did sex them correctly!  females are exactly 3" as adults.


Well great job, nice to know what they are.  



LAME said:


> CosbyArt, since the three of us (you,mantidbro,and myself...) lucked out on our pairs and I seem to be the last male owner of our group... I'm willing to donate my male (Gump.) in the name of the "greater cause".
> 
> Though he's still young and has alot of catching up to do... He's available if you're interested. I'm open to holding onto him for you, just pm me and let me know.


I appreciate it, but hold onto him for the time being if nothing else to see if they will be able to mate when the time comes closer (in instar age). If it does comes down to it I'll send you a couple ooths, nymphs, or whichever you prefer from their union.


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## MantidBro (Jul 8, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> Well great job, nice to know what they are.
> 
> I appreciate it, but hold onto him for the time being if nothing else to see if they will be able to mate when the time comes closer (in instar age). If it does comes down to it I'll send you a couple ooths, nymphs, or whichever you prefer from their union.


Lol thanks!  

I sent you a message btw, i have an adult male atm, maybe we can see if he will still be in good shape by the time your girls are adults!  if so id be willing to send him over


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## CosbyArt (Jul 8, 2015)

My Japanese boxer mantid (Acromantis japonica) (#2) molted earlier today to adult, and grew some nice wings. It is the first adult I've had in quite awhile.


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## MantidBro (Jul 8, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> My Japanese boxer mantid (Acromantis japonica) (#2) molted earlier today to adult, and grew some nice wings. It is the first adult I've had in quite awhile.
> 
> ...


Awesome!!


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## dmina (Jul 8, 2015)

You did a good job... It looks really good.. love those wings.. Some of mine are now adults... need to breed them this weekend... I have adult A.j's and M. paykulii's to try to breed this weekend both started calling before my vacation..


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## CosbyArt (Jul 9, 2015)

dmina said:


> You did a good job... It looks really good.. love those wings.. Some of mine are now adults... need to breed them this weekend... I have adult A.j's and M. paykulii's to try to breed this weekend both started calling before my vacation..


Thanks I just feed the mantid, it did all the hard work.  

Sounds like you have your weekend planned, best of luck.


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## mantisman 230 (Jul 10, 2015)

Lol you have to really speed up your l5 Pnigomantis, as it is a female, your l7 is a presub male xD. Both lobatas were clearly female from just looking at the shield, the males have a very reduced shield and are really small until adult.


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## CosbyArt (Jul 10, 2015)

mantisman 230 said:


> Lol you have to really speed up your l5 Pnigomantis, as it is a female, your l7 is a presub male xD. Both lobatas were clearly female from just looking at the shield, the males have a very reduced shield and are really small until adult.


Thanks for the IDs, but I don't worry about breeding, as they are primarily pets.  I got the double shields from different keepers so I am amazed they are as close in instar as they are. Although I may see about trading them off when they reach adults though, for they have a chance to breed, as I 10 more mantids inbound that should be here today.


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## LAME (Jul 10, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> "...10 more mantids inbound that should be here today."


LOL!... Well, I see soneones been skipping out on the group meetings again. Shame shaaame... ^_^ 

Whatcha gettin' buddy?


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## CosbyArt (Jul 10, 2015)

LAME said:


> LOL!... Well, I see soneones been skipping out on the group meetings again. Shame shaaame... ^_^
> 
> Whatcha gettin' buddy?


Yeah I "fell off the wagon" lol.  

I was told my package has 4 L2 Ghosts (Phyllocrania paradoxa), 3 L2 African twig mantids (Popa spurca), and 3 L1 Madagascan Marbled mantids (Polyspilota aeruginosa). The tracking number says it is out for delivery so it should be here in a few hours or less.


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## MantidBro (Jul 10, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> Yeah I "fell off the wagon" lol.
> 
> I was told my package has 4 L2 Ghosts (Phyllocrania paradoxa), 3 L2 African twig mantids (Popa spurca), and 3 L1 Madagascan Marbled mantids (Polyspilota aeruginosa). The tracking number says it is out for delivery so it should be here in a few hours or less.


Sweet!


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## LAME (Jul 10, 2015)

Ah man... The marbled mantid? I'm jealous... :|

Lol


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## dmina (Jul 10, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> Yeah I "fell off the wagon" lol.
> 
> I was told my package has 4 L2 Ghosts (Phyllocrania paradoxa), 3 L2 African twig mantids (Popa spurca), and 3 L1 Madagascan Marbled mantids (Polyspilota aeruginosa). The tracking number says it is out for delivery so it should be here in a few hours or less.


I don't know if they are aeruginosa marbled or griffinii – Griffin Mantis


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## CosbyArt (Jul 10, 2015)

dmina said:


> I don't know if they are aeruginosa marbled or griffinii – Griffin Mantis


Not a problem, they'll show themselves after a few molts.  I'll post some pictures after they rest up from their traveling.


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## CosbyArt (Jul 31, 2015)

I posted the final update for my Deadleaf mantids (Deroplatys lobata) in their original thread.

Sadly all the new nymphs I got recently didn't do very well (rough post office work or such didn't help them), I only have two remaining ghost nymphs left. They however recently molted to L3's and seem to be doing good.

Ghost D 2 - L3






Ghost D 3 - L3





My original two Ghosts are still doing great, with Bandit (my one arm Ghost) molting to an adult Wednesday (July 29th). He never did regrow his arm (I got him at L2 February 12th with only one arm).

Bandit my Ghost mantid at L7











Bandit's sibling is at L7 as well (but not an adult), but has really started to show green colors. Originally she was a dark brown too, but lighten to a light brown, but is now going green.











I have more updates to post soon, as many of my other mantids have now molted to adults too.


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## LAME (Jul 31, 2015)

Omg that female ghost is something beautiful!! I seriously can not wait to see her adult look.


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## bobericc (Jul 31, 2015)

Great stuff cosby cant wait to see more


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## MantidBro (Jul 31, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> I posted the final update for my Deadleaf mantids (Deroplatys lobata) in their original thread.
> 
> Sadly all the new nymphs I got recently didn't do very well (rough post office work or such didn't help them), I only have two remaining ghost nymphs left. They however recently molted to L3's and seem to be doing good.
> 
> ...


Awesome! I like Bandit, he's different! Those ghosts are cute, how tiny!


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## dmina (Aug 4, 2015)

Great update... thanks for sharing


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## CosbyArt (Aug 20, 2015)

I just caught a wild Carolina mantid (Stagmomantis carolina) at 8:15 (less than a hour ago), and my first I caught wild since Susanna. 



She is an adult female and is somewhere between 1 3/4" to 2" long, and is really friendly.

I was collecting leaves on a ladder in the oak tree in backyard, about 12 feet up. After I removed a few leaves and put them into the bucket, she was on a nearby branch looking at me and doing a wave with your forearms as I came close. I went inside to get my net to ensure she didn't fall - but didn't need it. She climbed on and was ready to go.  

In case anyone is wondering about the leaves, I got a bucket full to put in my food dehydrator for leaf litter for my new millipede. Fresh litter, and there was none to be found in my backyard amazingly.


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## MantidBro (Aug 21, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> I just caught a wild Carolina mantid (Stagmomantis carolina) at 8:15 (less than a hour ago), and my first I caught wild since Susanna.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hah wow thats awesome!!


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## LAME (Aug 21, 2015)

Aww!.. You found your new Carolina mantis?! Nice man, and she's beautiful. Maybe you'll find yourself a male?


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## CosbyArt (Aug 21, 2015)

LAME said:


> Aww!.. You found your new Carolina mantis?! Nice man, and she's beautiful. Maybe you'll find yourself a male?


Thanks, I'm really excited lol. It was the first time in years I have been on a ladder and I found a mantid while on it, sweet  

Yeah I left the ladder as I plan to collect more leaves tomorrow, and hoping I'll find someone else - although I'm not getting my hopes up. I figure if nothing else I can put her outside in a net tank for a few hours to attract her a male or two.


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## yellowray91 (Aug 21, 2015)

Its always a cool feeling finding a wild mantis when your looking for em but even better when your not expecting them and the show up right in front of you lol. Good luck on finding some males for her.


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## CosbyArt (Aug 21, 2015)

yellowray said:


> Its always a cool feeling finding a wild mantis when your looking for em but even better when your not expecting them and the show up right in front of you lol. Good luck on finding some males for her.


Thanks, it was a great day.  I know if it was someone else in my family they wouldn't have seen the mantid, but to me it would have been like trying to overlook a flashing neon sign





I have high hopes of finding a male on the ivy covered chain link fence that runs around the front of the yard, last year we saw several there about this time of year.


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## CosbyArt (Aug 30, 2015)

LAME said:


> Aww!.. You found your new Carolina mantis?! Nice man, and she's beautiful. Maybe you'll find yourself a male?


I did find a male today!





So far I have four wild Carolina's I caught now lately. One adult female (Apogee above), my new adult male Ecru, one female that looks to be sub-adult and ready to molt soon, and another female that is likely L4 (tiny thing must be from the June hatch I saw, so I did get one after all).  

I had my camera with me as I was getting photos of the Milkweed bugs I was collecting, so here is a shot of Ecru before I captured him  As of now he is happily eating a GB fly in his habitat. The blue tarp in the photo is part of a large dog pen (keeps the area of the house sun and rain free).


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## CosbyArt (Aug 30, 2015)

I should also add my one armed Ghost, Bandit, died earlier today.

I found him hanging from his screen mesh still, but dead, while I was feeding all my mantids. His hind walking legs were not gripping right so I investigated and discovered he was dead. Strange he died still holding on to his mesh lid, never seen that before. I put him in the freezer to ensure he goes painlessly, if he had any life left (he didn't move any as I put him into a small container for the freezer). He aged 6 months and 18 days (199 days) in my care since I got him as a L2.

A bummer for sure, he was a friend.  On a positive note I already moved Ecru into his habitat - odd I found my male Carolina the same day it happened.


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## MantidBro (Aug 30, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> I did find a male today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats great!! ya gonna breed em??


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## MantidBro (Aug 30, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> I should also add my one armed Ghost, Bandit, died earlier today.
> 
> I found him hanging from his screen mesh still, but dead, while I was feeding all my mantids. His hind walking legs were not gripping right so I investigated and discovered he was dead. Strange he died still holding on to his mesh lid, never seen that before. I put him in the freezer to ensure he goes painlessly, if he had any life left (he didn't move any as I put him into a small container for the freezer). He aged 6 months and 18 days (199 days) in my care since I got him as a L2.
> 
> A bummer for sure, he was a friend.  On a positive note I already moved Ecru into his habitat - odd I found my male Carolina the same day it happened.


Aw RIP Bandit!! i had a tenodera die still holdin on once. I thought he was just being lazy til i went to feed him and realized he was deceased.


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## CosbyArt (Aug 30, 2015)

MantidBro said:


> Thats great!! ya gonna breed em??


Indeed I am  He has one girl ready and another that may be soon enough too. The way it's been going lately though I may find him some more girls


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## MantidBro (Aug 30, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> Indeed I am  He has one girl ready and another that may be soon enough too. The way it's been going lately though I may find him some more girls


Awesome!!


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## CosbyArt (Aug 30, 2015)

I figured in the meantime until I get a chance to do individual shots - here are my current mantids (isopods, millipedes, and springtails on the 2nd shelf). Kind of cheating I know  I did take some photos of each mantid in their habitat a minute ago, but the photos required a flash and the habitats are bad at bouncing it back.


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## mantisman 230 (Aug 30, 2015)

nice collection so far


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## MantidBro (Aug 30, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> I figured in the meantime until I get a chance to do individual shots - here are my current mantids (isopods, millipedes, and springtails on the 2nd shelf). Kind of cheating I know  I did take some photos of each mantid in their habitat a minute ago, but the photos required a flash and the habitats are bad at bouncing it back.
> 
> ...


Nice!


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## LAME (Aug 31, 2015)

Aw... I really liked Bandit. I'm sorry bro


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## Sticky (Aug 31, 2015)

Im sorry he's gone. He was neat!


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## CosbyArt (Sep 1, 2015)

I caught five more wild Carolina's today and another Chinese mantid too! I'm up to 9 Carolina's and 15 Chinese mantids (3 of the original Chinese had to be put down as they were damaged by a lawn mower before I got them..).

My new Carolina's - two are gravid females, one adult male, a adult female, and another small L4 female. I'll have to get some photos up to show of my little Carolina family  

The adult male was on the neighbors swing so they told me to come get him - after getting him in my hand he flew off as I started to show him off. I went looking for him but found the L4 girl instead. After more looking an hour later I found him and the two gravid females hiding around the chainlink fence ivy in the front yard. The last girl was hiding in the roses in the backyard (my wife said they were so thorny no mantis would hide in it, so I went looking as a challenge and found one lol). The last girl took four attempts until I caught her in my net, she kept jumping out of my hand as I was struggling to catch her as I was surrounded by thorny limbs, so I grabbed my net to get her.


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## MantidBro (Sep 1, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> I caught five more wild Carolina's today and another Chinese mantid too! I'm up to 9 Carolina's and 15 Chinese mantids (3 of the original Chinese had to be put down as they were damaged by a lawn mower before I got them..).
> 
> My new Carolina's - two are gravid females, one adult male, a adult female, and another small L4 female. I'll have to get some photos up to show of my little Carolina family
> 
> The adult male was on the neighbors swing so they told me to come get him - after getting him in my hand he flew off as I started to show him off. I went looking for him but found the L4 girl instead. After more looking an hour later I found him and the two gravid females hiding around the chainlink fence ivy in the front yard. The last girl was hiding in the roses in the backyard (my wife said they were so thorny no mantis would hide in it, so I went looking as a challenge and found one lol). The last girl took four attempts until I caught her in my net, she kept jumping out of my hand as I was struggling to catch her as I was surrounded by thorny limbs, so I grabbed my net to get her.


Poor ones cut up by the lawn mower!

Thats awesome that you found so many carolinas!

haha i found a female sinensis on a flower by some thorns too once! flowers equals food! sounds like a tough time tryna catch her, its a good idea to have a net around! I bought one last month for the difficult prey. butterflies, flies, moths.


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## CosbyArt (Sep 1, 2015)

MantidBro said:


> Poor ones cut up by the lawn mower!
> 
> Thats awesome that you found so many carolinas!
> 
> haha i found a female sinensis on a flower by some thorns too once! flowers equals food! sounds like a tough time tryna catch her, its a good idea to have a net around! I bought one last month for the difficult prey. butterflies, flies, moths.


Yeah it seems my sister can't run her lawn mower without hitting them, they are so thick out at her place. That's why I originally went out there and got 15 to begin with. She has been slowly taking back some of her wild 10 acre property and they don't show until they are fleeing for their lives and often it's too late sadly. I'd really hate to know how many have been mowed over.

Thanks, I am excited about them can't wait to have some little ones too in the next few months.  I plan on returning several ooths to my yard to keep up the population, and I know of at least one person wanting some for next season if nothing else.

Glad to see I'm not the only one venturing into the thorns to get a mantid.  Nice to hear you got a net. I got a few cheap ones, about worthless, and made a nice one - but the net hoop/ring has to be stronger as I already broke it. I'll have to try again as the $40+ nets I've seen on some sites are too expensive.


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## Sticky (Sep 1, 2015)

I would like a Carolina ooth. Maybe I would have something to trade? If not, I would be happy to pay for one and shipping.


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## CosbyArt (Sep 1, 2015)

Sticky said:


> I would like a Carolina ooth. Maybe I would have something to trade? If not, I would be happy to pay for one and shipping.


Okay I'll add you for a ooth too. Sure I'm up for trades, we'll talk when I get some ooths on hand.


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## mantisman 230 (Sep 1, 2015)

All the Carolinas be had that day xD, I remember that I had 20 mature females once, they ate all my feeders xD.


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## CosbyArt (Sep 23, 2015)

I've had many mantids come and go lately, but thought I should post about my new girl I named TipTop.

I caught another gravid Carolina female from the ladder still in the tree in my backyard (that's at least 3 mantises from there now). She has a very unique color and speckling, I haven't seen on a Carolina (Stagmomantis carolina) like her before; although, another female I caught named Banana is similar.

TipTop was literally barely above the top ladder rung, sitting on the tree itself (the others I got were in the tree leaves). I climbed up looking for a mantid Tuesday and she was right in front of me turning her head and watching me. Here are some photos of her right before I put her in her new habitat. Well actually they were after I tried to put her in, but she climbed off the lid and right on to my arm, so I thought I'd share some photos.

I've also found some new Carolina ooths in the backyard too, which they will stay so I can see more next year


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## Sticky (Sep 23, 2015)

Can I have an ooth? Ive been wanting one for some time.


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## Deacon (Sep 23, 2015)

Grandsons and I just looked at all your mantids! They are so beautiful--I would suggest that your ghost mantid that is eating the blue bottle fly looks like a piece gold jewelry pretty enough to wear in the photo! Thanks for the gorgeous photos!


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## CosbyArt (Sep 23, 2015)

Sticky said:


> Can I have an ooth? Ive been wanting one for some time.


Sorry but as mentioned the ones I have found in the yard are staying where they are (with confirmed parasitic wasps from previous wild ooths I hatched from my yard, the hatching numbers will likely be low next year too).

I do have several gravid females (such as TipTop shown above) that I captured, and I will bred them once they lay their current ooths to ensure they are fertile. If you want I can trade you one of the now gravid female ooths, or you can wait until they lay a new ooth once they are bred to ensure they hatch.

Either way you will be sure to get a Carolina ooth from me as I have 5 adult Carolina females at the moment ready to lay ooths (and I'm not selling/trading any of the girls) - and I will continue to find more until it freezes outside.  



Deacon said:


> Grandsons and I just looked at all your mantids! They are so beautiful--I would suggest that your ghost mantid that is eating the blue bottle fly looks like a piece gold jewelry pretty enough to wear in the photo! Thanks for the gorgeous photos!


Thanks for looking, and the comments, glad you and your grandsons enjoyed them!  The yellow Ghost was a very pretty girl. Sadly though I was unable to breed her before she died, I was hoping some of her offspring would get her unique coloration. I do have some more Ghosts now, and hopefully they will develop the beautiful colors too.  

One of my new Ghosts just molted today and has a pretty color too; however, as it isn't full dry yet it may darken in color. I'll have to post some photos of it tomorrow.


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## MantidBro (Sep 23, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> I've had many mantids come and go lately, but thought I should post about my new girl I named TipTop.
> 
> I caught another gravid Carolina female from the ladder still in the tree in my backyard (that's at least 3 mantises from there now). She has a very unique color and speckling, I haven't seen on a Carolina (Stagmomantis carolina) like her before; although, another female I caught named Banana is similar.
> 
> ...


Shes cool lookin! i read carolinas can blend in with anything, id seen an actual black one on google!


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## CosbyArt (Sep 23, 2015)

MantidBro said:


> Shes cool lookin! i read carolinas can blend in with anything, id seen an actual black one on google!


Thanks, yeah she is not the typical brown or green  I had to look that up and found the black one here, very nice! Depending on how many of the nymphs I think I can keep/feed from my ooths I'll have to play with background decorations and see if I can get some nice color molts.


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## MantidBro (Sep 23, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> Thanks, yeah she is not the typical brown or green  I had to look that up and found the black one here, very nice! Depending on how many of the nymphs I think I can keep/feed from my ooths I'll have to play with background decorations and see if I can get some nice color molts.


Yup, thats it!

Thatd be cool! i did it with the male Nate sent me, i used blue, he did end up having some blue!


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## CosbyArt (Sep 23, 2015)

MantidBro said:


> Yup, thats it!
> 
> Thatd be cool! i did it with the male Nate sent me, i used blue, he did end up having some blue!


That's great, a blue mantid  I'll have to try some purple or fuchsia to see what happens - a toxic looking mantid would be neat.


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## MantidBro (Sep 23, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> That's great, a blue mantid  I'll have to try some purple or fuchsia to see what happens - a toxic looking mantid would be neat.


He wasnt 100% blue but he had blue bits, like his eyes, and the underside of his thorax. He was at L5 i think when Nate sent him over. He was originally brown, i think maybe if you tried with one at L1 and raised him/her to adulthood around that color, that the mantid would have the best chance at becoming that specific color completely!Edit.. That would look cool btw, a toxic mantid!


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## CosbyArt (Sep 24, 2015)

MantidBro said:


> He wasnt 100% blue but he had blue bits, like his eyes, and the underside of his thorax. He was at L5 i think when Nate sent him over. He was originally brown, i think maybe if you tried with one at L1 and raised him/her to adulthood around that color, that the mantid would have the best chance at becoming that specific color completely!
> 
> Edit.. That would look cool btw, a toxic mantid!


I figured that lol, although it would be cool to have a solid colored mantid. Still nice that he had taht much color to him.  

It would, I'll have to see if I can corner the market on them lol. But seriously I think wrapping 30-50% of their cup in colored construction paper would be enough and easy to do. Sounds like another experiment coming up soon.


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## LAME (Sep 24, 2015)

I would like to add in on Alex's post... In regards to the male (Kaz), we must keep in mind that I sent him around... What? Pre-sub/subadult? And still ended up with blue...

Now what do you think he would be looked like if he had grown up in a completely blue set-up from L1-Up?

If you remember... Alex, I DID Apollo in pink. -.-

And he did end up obviously pink hued... But was also found the same in star as kaz.

Thomas... I myself believe you should run the color experiment on a few of your hatchlings  

How about "Hunter Orange" colored mantids! 

Lol


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## CosbyArt (Sep 24, 2015)

Figured I'd better include my batch of Griffin nymphs here too, as I running out of them fast (selling/trading/gifting). They hatched from a ooth September 6, and they molted to L2 September 19th. They are currently 18 days old and love to run amok when I get them out of their communal habitat.  

Here is one that I got to finally pose for me, although he is swaying anyway.  He did the typical nymph thing and jumped off my hand repetitively when I had him out. He did it three times, but luckily I caught him before he hit the carpet all 3 times too. I've found the fall doesn't seem to hurt them being so small, but finding them really can be a task! They measure in at the moment just short of 1/2" and have a tiny girth - although this one has a pot belly from so many FF's.


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## CosbyArt (Sep 24, 2015)

LAME said:


> I would like to add in on Alex's post... In regards to the male (Kaz), we must keep in mind that I sent him around... What? Pre-sub/subadult? And still ended up with blue...
> 
> Now what do you think he would be looked like if he had grown up in a completely blue set-up from L1-Up?
> 
> ...


Nice. Orange is my favorite color, but no so sure about hunter orange; although, it might make for a hunters best friend.  

Try to remind me when I get ready to hatch some ooths after diapause, I'll have to try out some colors. I've added a note in my mantid log too.


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## Sticky (Sep 24, 2015)

I can wait til they lay a new ooth. What would like in return?


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## CosbyArt (Sep 24, 2015)

Sticky said:


> I can wait til they lay a new ooth. What would like in return?


PM sent.


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## MantidBro (Sep 24, 2015)

LAME said:


> I would like to add in on Alex's post... In regards to the male (Kaz), we must keep in mind that I sent him around... What? Pre-sub/subadult? And still ended up with blue...
> 
> Now what do you think he would be looked like if he had grown up in a completely blue set-up from L1-Up?
> 
> ...


He had two molts with me, so you did send him as a presub, yup! and thats what i was thinking, if we started at L1, i imagine he would have been even more blue for sure! Though im impressed even with the amount of blue he had

Yeah, carolinas definitely seem to take on the color theyre surrounded with!

I also think he should try it out, thatd be fun to be able to experiment with a whole bunch of nymphs!


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## Fredstrong (Sep 27, 2015)

Great Pics! Some of those Ghost pics are spectacular!!!


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## CosbyArt (Sep 27, 2015)

Fredstrong said:


> Great Pics! Some of those Ghost pics are spectacular!!!


Thanks  

I do have a soft spot for them, and my current two Ghosts are taking on different colors. One is taking on a green hue, and the other is developing a tan/yellow coloring. Not sure why the changes, I know it is attributed to humidity usually, but both receive the same care and are kept side by side.


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## CosbyArt (Sep 29, 2015)

I went out to see how many fresh ooths were around the front yard area with my mom today. Got to the bottom of the stairs and as soon as I started to walk around the side, this little gravid Carolina was sitting there ready to come in. I went in and got my transport/capture container and brought her in, but she would have likely preferred to ride in my hand.

Here she is on the lid of my capture container, I figured the lid showed off her colors better. I introduced "my new girl" to my wife, and I said it that way, but she only laughed as she figured out what I was talking about. My wife actually oohed and aahed over her a bit, and then she decided she wanted to name her Dotty.


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## Sticky (Sep 29, 2015)

She's a pretty lady. I wish they lived here in Maine.


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## CosbyArt (Sep 29, 2015)

Sticky said:


> She's a pretty lady. I wish they lived here in Maine.


She is, seems the later the season is getting the more beautiful their coloration is. :tt1: 

The Carolina mantis should be in your state naturally, as it has been recorded there (and as far north as cold Alaska). It's also listed as number 50 on this list too. Maybe you just need to introduce a few ooths early in spring in your area to get their population numbers back.


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## Brunneria (Sep 29, 2015)

Wow, that's a one stunning carolina! Never seen one that pretty before. Most of the ones I find in my area are jet green or mottled grayish brown.


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## CosbyArt (Sep 29, 2015)

Brunneria said:


> Wow, that's a one stunning carolina! Never seen one that pretty before. Most of the ones I find in my area are jet green or mottled grayish brown.


Typically so have been mine, but here lately there are some beautiful ones coming out. Perhaps they have been in hiding and are out just to lay ooths, if that is the case makes me wonder where they lived to pick-up such colors.


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## MantidBro (Sep 29, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> I went out to see how many fresh ooths were around the front yard area with my mom today. Got to the bottom of the stairs and as soon as I started to walk around the side, this little gravid Carolina was sitting there ready to come in. I went in and got my transport/capture container and brought her in, but she would have likely preferred to ride in my hand.
> 
> Here she is on the lid of my capture container, I figured the lid showed off her colors better. I introduced "my new girl" to my wife, and I said it that way, but she only laughed as she figured out what I was talking about. My wife actually oohed and aahed over her a bit, and then she decided she wanted to name her Dotty.
> 
> ...


She is a beautiful one!! Haha funny about your wife


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## CosbyArt (Sep 29, 2015)

MantidBro said:


> She is a beautiful one!! Haha funny about your wife


Yeah my wife is strange about my mantids. I asked her why she wanted to name it and she said I tried to make her name the last one, so she thought she should name this one.


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## MantidBro (Sep 29, 2015)

CosbyArt said:


> Yeah my wife is strange about my mantids. I asked her why she wanted to name it and she said I tried to make her name the last one, so she thought she should name this one.


Lol


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## dmina (Oct 1, 2015)

Great updates... I have missed a few... but I am all caught up now... Good job Thomas


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## CosbyArt (Oct 1, 2015)

dmina said:


> Great updates... I have missed a few... but I am all caught up now... Good job Thomas


Thanks Denise. Lots more photos to post, but always find it hard to get them all out for a picture day without escaping feeders. Although I have a 4 species at the moment the vast majority are Carolinas.


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## CosbyArt (Mar 27, 2016)

My first ooths of the year have hatched. So far two Chinese mantis ooths (Tenodera sinensis) started hatching just before midnight, so I've been dealing with them the last few hours (otherwise I'd be in bed as I have to be up in a few hours for Easter dinner and such). It was nice though seeing some tiny baby nymphs  

I didn't bother to count all of them in the container itself - but the last photo (inside the container of the bottom corner) has 46 nymphs, and the entire 5 gallon container is crawling with them.


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## LAME (Mar 27, 2016)

Look at all the babies!


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## CosbyArt (Mar 27, 2016)

LAME said:


> Look at all the babies!


There are a couple of babies, did you want any when they make L2?





I plan to keep them inside till it warms back up (some near freezing nights a few days ago), and they make it through a instar and release them back at my sisters, where I collected all those adult Chinese mantids last fall.

Thankfully my fruit fly cultures are ready for them too.


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## CosbyArt (Mar 30, 2016)

I've just had a few more hatching nymphs; however, this time they are Brunner's mantis (Brunneria borealis) nymphs! I'm really excited about this as I got three wild ooths total, from two trades in early October last year - and these are the first nymphs I've seen from them.

Hopefully I will see more nymphs soon. I've been waiting to try out this native species since I saw photos about them, and their 100% parthenogenesis ooths, shortly after finding out about the mantid hobby.  

Very strange to think that the nymphs are clones, I'll have to name them Dolly and Bonny.


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## Brunneria (Mar 30, 2016)

Woohoo! Congrat.! I'm waiting on my brunners to hatch. They are taking FOREVER! LOL


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## CosbyArt (Mar 31, 2016)

Brunneria said:


> Woohoo! Congrat.! I'm waiting on my brunners to hatch. They are taking FOREVER! LOL


Thanks  

Indeed you are one of the people I did the trade with. They definitely did take a long time for just two nymphs (about 5 months when I got it), hopefully your get some hatching soon as well.


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## Sarah K (Mar 31, 2016)

Congrats Thomas! Looks like you got your hands full with babies!


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## CosbyArt (Mar 31, 2016)

I had another Brunner's mantis hatch this morning, up to three nymphs.  I love their antenna's, they have a very unique look even as nymphs.






I also bought a Olympus FE-4000 camera today at a pawnshop, nothing special like my old DSLR's or anything, but is much better than my HP 5 MP camera. This camera is 12 MP and does amazingly "super-macros" if I can get close enough to them (I got some excellent test shots), but so far this was the best I could get of my new Brunner's nymph. Hopefully with some playing around with it I can get it setup for some decent shots even if they don't cooperate.  



Sarah K said:


> Congrats Thomas! Looks like you got your hands full with babies!


Thanks, yeah they keep hatching. I have many more ooths to go too.


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## Starving Always (Mar 31, 2016)

excited to see your new camera's pics!!


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## CosbyArt (Apr 1, 2016)

Starving Always said:


> excited to see your new camera's pics!!


I am too, especially compared to what I had for awhile.  I fed my adult mantids flies before I thought of getting a photo, so here is one through the top (aluminum mesh is the weird thing in the way).

The camera has some "hot pixels" but definitely not bad for a point-and-shoot camera through mesh. I'll have to post some new photos coming up.


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## Sticky (Apr 1, 2016)

Cosbyart, will you be selling any Brunners?


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## LAME (Apr 1, 2016)

Thats actually not bad considering the photo is shot through mesh.


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## CosbyArt (Apr 1, 2016)

Sticky said:


> Cosbyart, will you be selling any Brunners?


I will sell a few if I get more than a handful to hatch. I'll shoot you a PM if that happens.  



LAME said:


> Thats actually not bad considering the photo is shot through mesh.


Not bad for a $30 used camera.  

So far the only downfall of it seems to be it requires plenty of indoor light for faster shutter speeds to prevent blurring of anything moving, typical of most point-and-shoot cameras. That shouldn't be a issue for mantids though as they like to hold still until they are doing the swaying (or Ghost antennas).


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## Starving Always (Apr 1, 2016)

wow only $30?!?! thats super cheap!!! i was thinking of buying a camera for a low price too. point-and-shoot, nothing special. just macro clear pics.


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## CosbyArt (Apr 1, 2016)

Starving Always said:


> wow only $30?!?! thats super cheap!!! i was thinking of buying a camera for a low price too. point-and-shoot, nothing special. just macro clear pics.


Yeah it was $31.03 with tax, $29 without.  If you do, go with a true camera maker name such as Canon, Nikon, Olympus, or Pentax. The other names are generics and no matter the megapixel size the optics &amp; electronics are so bad they aren't worth getting (that includes avoiding Vivitar and Kodak as they went out of business years ago and the names was auction off).

My model has two macro modes, but requires plenty of light for a decent shutter speed to avoid too much blur. There is a common trick to get much better macro shots too with any camera and that is using a reversed prime camera lens (here is a pretty good article on it). Although you will have to hold the extra lens, or get a adapter tube if you can find one for your camera model. Best of luck finding one local.


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## Starving Always (Apr 1, 2016)

i think i might just stick to one of the simple Canon cameras that wont be so macro, but still be clear. I have no idea how to work cameras and no knowledge on their equipment and their functions.


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## CosbyArt (Apr 3, 2016)

Here is a shot of one of my little Chinese nymphs.  

View attachment 7285


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## Kermit (Apr 3, 2016)

Very cool!


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## Sarah K (Apr 3, 2016)

Awww.....so cute!


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## bobericc (Apr 3, 2016)

Congrats on the brunners ooth hatch. Its been a long while since I've seen any on the forum. Wish you the best with them thomas


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## CosbyArt (Apr 3, 2016)

Kermit said:


> Very cool!


Thanks I am excited at the hatches too.  



Sarah K said:


> Awww.....so cute!


Yeah but they grow up to be large mantids.  I was thinking of my dad responding NO and his phrase about not having another pet dog when I was a kid, as everyone likes the babies.  

I have to agree even my family members that are not keen on my "bugs" enjoy the cute little baby nymphs.  



bobericc said:


> Congrats on the brunners ooth hatch. Its been a long while since I've seen any on the forum. Wish you the best with them thomas


Thanks, they have to be my favorite thing I've done in the hobby so far.  Yeah I don't see much about Brunner's usually either, but I've heard some tend to keep them (although not necessarily post about them). Thanks, I hope to be able to keep them going, and pass some around in the hobby. They would be a great exotic species and is a native alternative.


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## CosbyArt (Apr 4, 2016)

I transferred my three Brunner's mantis (Brunneria borealis) nymphs to their own cups today/tonight - still no new hatches though since 3-31-16. They have been doing fine with the Melanogaster flies, if not a bit afraid of them, as when I add in Melanogaster flies the Brunner's run off the lid to the substrate or limb to hide.

I took the time to handle them a bit and get some photos. As mentioned before I named them Dolly, Bonny, and Sally.  I have uploaded two photos of each Dolly and Bonny, and with Sally I did three as I captured her opening her mouth and then cleaning.  

Here is Dolly...











This is Bonny...










and Sally...


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## Kermit (Apr 4, 2016)

CA

These are cool shots! Thx for sharing.


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## CosbyArt (Apr 4, 2016)

Kermit said:


> CA
> 
> These are cool shots! Thx for sharing.


Thanks. I hope to have more to share, but with the Brunner's mantis ooths taking up to 2 years to fully hatch it may be awhile for more baby shots.


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## Sticky (Apr 5, 2016)

I like the names!


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## CosbyArt (Apr 5, 2016)

Sticky said:


> I like the names!


Thanks. I kinda cheated there didn't I, but I thought it was fitting.  As I just used Dolly's offspring for additional names; although, there are only four more names before I have to come up with something else (maybe the Minion's clone names, but they are all boys and my nymphs are all girls).


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## CosbyArt (Apr 6, 2016)

I had one more Brunner's mantis nymph hatch this morning, which I named Rosie. While transferring the nymph to a habitat I noticed 2 of my 3 ooths have hatch the nymphs so far, which great as I have two good ooths at least.  

Here is the newest little nymph...


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## MantidBro (Apr 6, 2016)

CosbyArt said:


> My first ooths of the year have hatched. So far two Chinese mantis ooths (Tenodera sinensis) started hatching just before midnight, so I've been dealing with them the last few hours (otherwise I'd be in bed as I have to be up in a few hours for Easter dinner and such). It was nice though seeing some tiny baby nymphs
> 
> I didn't bother to count all of them in the container itself - but the last photo (inside the container of the bottom corner) has 46 nymphs, and the entire 5 gallon container is crawling with them.
> 
> ...


Thats awesome! Theyre everywhere!


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## MantidBro (Apr 6, 2016)

CosbyArt said:


> I transferred my three Brunner's mantis (Brunneria borealis) nymphs to their own cups today/tonight - still no new hatches though since 3-31-16. They have been doing fine with the Melanogaster flies, if not a bit afraid of them, as when I add in Melanogaster flies the Brunner's run off the lid to the substrate or limb to hide.
> 
> I took the time to handle them a bit and get some photos. As mentioned before I named them Dolly, Bonny, and Sally.  I have uploaded two photos of each Dolly and Bonny, and with Sally I did three as I captured her opening her mouth and then cleaning.
> 
> ...


Oh they sure are cute! Great pics!


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## MantidBro (Apr 6, 2016)

CosbyArt said:


> Here is a shot of one of my little Chinese nymphs.
> 
> ...


Tiny little one!


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## CosbyArt (Apr 6, 2016)

MantidBro said:


> Thats awesome! Theyre everywhere!






MantidBro said:


> Oh they sure are cute! Great pics!






MantidBro said:


> Tiny little one!


Thanks, yeah there are a lot of little nymphs running around. So far the Brunner's are doing great, and had one more nymph hatch today (they are really slow). The Chinese nymphs have been thinning out and getting larger (not sure if they have started to molt or not, hard to tell as they are so tiny).


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## MantidBro (Apr 7, 2016)

CosbyArt said:


> Thanks, yeah there are a lot of little nymphs running around. So far the Brunner's are doing great, and had one more nymph hatch today (they are really slow). The Chinese nymphs have been thinning out and getting larger (not sure if they have started to molt or not, hard to tell as they are so tiny).


Awesome!

Haha they sure are!


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## CosbyArt (Apr 9, 2016)

Well my nymphs have been making progress.

Sadly though I lost one of my Brunner's nymphs, little Dolly (she aged 10 days). I have been feeding them Melanogaster flies like my other nymphs; however, I never did not witness a Brunner feed on a FF. With her death I begin adding in springtails as well for their prey just in case, and I witnessed one of the Brunner's eat two springtails rather quickly. So it seems springtails are needed with them, so I have been adding them in at feeding time just as I would FF.

Also my Chinese nymphs have molted to L2 as well. Luckily I was able to find one of the old L1 exuviae, and took a close-up of that as well in the photo below.  

View attachment 7342


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## CosbyArt (Apr 11, 2016)

I had one more Brunner's mantis nymphs hatch on Sunday morning. It only took her 186 days (6 months, 4 days) to say hello since I got her ooth delivered.  She is really energetic and was really dancing around, and seemed to be quite happy to get her springtails too.

Here is a shot of her I took, not bad with a cheap point-and-click camera (as you can even see her clawed feet on the end of her tarsus).


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## Sarah K (Apr 11, 2016)

Sorry you lost one of your Brunners.   But at least you seem to have figured out the problem, so hopefully you will not lose anymore!


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## CosbyArt (Apr 14, 2016)

Sarah K said:


> Sorry you lost one of your Brunners.   But at least you seem to have figured out the problem, so hopefully you will not lose anymore!


Thanks - I was too, still not sure what happened (perhaps a birthing defect). Yeah I give them springtails which they eagerly eat (still want to get a photo of that), but I still give them a couple Melanogasters FF each too. They seem to be very skittish nymphs, so the springtails solved the eating issue as they are so small.

Tonight though I got a few photos of my nymph Rosie eating a Melanogaster - it caught me by surprise as it was the first time I saw any of my Brunner's nymphs eat one.  She was near the cup edge so it made for lousy photos, but at least it is clearly a Melanogaster.

Also, I had another Brunner's mantis nymph hatch Tuesday morning, she was named Darcy. So I am up to 5 nymphs, and one great thing is she hatched from my 3rd Brunner's ooth, so all three of my ooths are good and hatching. Hopefully though they will hatch a bit faster, than just one at a time every few days.  

Here is my newest Darcy...





Rosie and her first Melanogaster FF...


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## mantisman 230 (Apr 14, 2016)

Nice stuff mate  The brunners nymphs I hatched a few years back were way more aggressive than yours are. Mine would take hydei surprisingly.


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## CosbyArt (Apr 14, 2016)

mantisman 230 said:


> Nice stuff mate  The brunners nymphs I hatched a few years back were way more aggressive than yours are. Mine would take hydei surprisingly.


Thanks. Yeah they appear to be skittish, and when a Melanogaster flies or lands nearby the Brunner's nymphs they usually jump or fall to their substrate below.  

That is amazing yours took Hydei at L1. Mine in their current rate, I'll be lucky if they take Hydei at L3


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## mantisman 230 (Apr 14, 2016)

I was honestly surprised as well xD


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## Krissim Klaw (Apr 15, 2016)

mantisman 230 said:


> Nice stuff mate  The brunners nymphs I hatched a few years back were way more aggressive than yours are. Mine would take hydei surprisingly.


Woah, the brunners I had were too skittish for hydei as hatchlings. They did take mels though.


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## mantisman 230 (Apr 15, 2016)

I did do the hardest ooth diapause ever xD, kept it at exactly 50 degrees for three months   They all emerged in two weeks


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## Nikkinik (Apr 16, 2016)

Amazing pix! You totally captured the beauty!


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## CosbyArt (Apr 16, 2016)

mantisman 230 said:


> I did do the hardest ooth diapause ever xD, kept it at exactly 50 degrees for three months   They all emerged in two weeks


That would be a much better option for one main hatch. The little I can find on the species tends to say one nymph hatching once a week for several months is typical.

Do you have a egg incubator for something like that? I've seen some before, primarily for reptiles, with the results being mixed with mantid ooths.



Nikkinik said:


> Amazing pix! You totally captured the beauty!


Thank you.  I do take many photos so hopefully at least one is worth sharing.


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## mantisman 230 (Apr 16, 2016)

It was a very picky scenario. I kept em in a 32 oz and put them in a specific location in my house.


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## CosbyArt (Apr 18, 2016)

I was out this morning collecting some specimens, and found a surprise when I got home. Once I sat down at my computer I noticed a tiny mantid nymph staring me down from my PC monitor.

After some searching it turned out one of the ooths I had mixed in with the old ooths I collected was still good. There were a total of 56 Carolina mantis nymphs I caught and quickly put into a container. Luckily they hadn't ran away from their ooth too far yet.  

This is the first main hatch yet from the wild collected Carolina ooths I've heard of, and this was from one I thought already hatched. I put all the old ooths in a container too just in case. As this is the second time this has happened to me; although, the first time was from a ooth I had sitting out for a few days after it arrived in the mail before I put it in a incubating container. Hopefully this is the last time I have the fun task of chasing down so many loose nymphs.  

Here is a photo of the Carolina mantids after they were caught (I didn't bother taking one while I was trying to catch them).


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## Sarah K (Apr 18, 2016)

WOW! I can't believe you keep having such crazy luck with nymphs hatching and getting loose in your house! SO funny! But at least you found 56 of them, so hopefully all will be good....well, other than the fact that you have your hands full with so many nymphs! LOL


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## CosbyArt (Apr 18, 2016)

Sarah K said:


> WOW! I can't believe you keep having such crazy luck with nymphs hatching and getting loose in your house! SO funny! But at least you found 56 of them, so hopefully all will be good....well, other than the fact that you have your hands full with so many nymphs! LOL


I know, perhaps I should just sit my ooths I've been incubating out loose, as they would likely hatch within days then.  

Nah, I imagine that was all of them as I cleared my cluttered desk looking for more and none were beyond the middle area behind my monitor. Also Carolina's tend to hatch 20-40 nymphs per ooth and at 56 nymphs that was a big ooth.  

It's nice seeing the Carolina's again, as the last Carolina I had died in mid-November last year, not to mention it show spring is finally here to stay in my area.


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## mantisman 230 (Apr 18, 2016)

you should really keep an eye on those ooths more often xD


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## CosbyArt (Apr 18, 2016)

mantisman 230 said:


> you should really keep an eye on those ooths more often xD


Yeah the "old ooths" for sure lol. So far the only others to hatch was a few more Brunner's nymphs today. I'd assume it is from the warmer temps, as it was reaching 85 F in here from the sun-room/balcony being open. So we closed that and my wife turned on the air conditioner even, but I thought that was a bit much.


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## mantisman 230 (Apr 18, 2016)

xD definitely warm here, it is 80 degrees upstairs in my home xD. I along with my inverts are in the much more stable downstairs half


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## jseng (Apr 19, 2016)

Congrats on the hatches! I recently hatched several Brunner's ooths after inducing artificial diapause (i.e., placing in an airtight contaner, then popping in my refrigerator) for 2 months, then removing and incubating them at room temp for a month. As mantisman 230 mentioned, this will cause most or all of the nymphs in the ooth to hatch in a relatively small time period--in my case, a few nymphs every few days over the course of 2 weeks. Mine were also super skittish to begin with, so I fed them one or two of the smallest wingless melanogasters in my cultures every day for the first week or two of their lives. After they were given that long to grow, though, they became much more fearless and would chase and easily take down mels of any size, even the winged variety.


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## CosbyArt (Apr 19, 2016)

jseng said:


> Congrats on the hatches! I recently hatched several Brunner's ooths after inducing artificial diapause (i.e., placing in an airtight contaner, then popping in my refrigerator) for 2 months, then removing and incubating them at room temp for a month. As mantisman 230 mentioned, this will cause most or all of the nymphs in the ooth to hatch in a relatively small time period--in my case, a few nymphs every few days over the course of 2 weeks. Mine were also super skittish to begin with, so I fed them one or two of the smallest wingless melanogasters in my cultures every day for the first week or two of their lives. After they were given that long to grow, though, they became much more fearless and would chase and easily take down mels of any size, even the winged variety.


Thanks.  

Glad to hear you were able to raise the Brunner's, so far my nymphs seem to all die a few weeks after hatching (even if I witness them eating). As I offer them both springtails and Melanogasters, they seem to like both, I'm at a loss to the issue. They are getting plenty of water/humidity, and the heat ranges from about 73 - 87 F. The search continues.


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## jseng (Apr 22, 2016)

Sorry, to hear you keep losing nymphs, that really sucks!    How often do they eat and drink? At L1, mine ate pretty much every single day (though only 1-3 fruit flies each time) and I sprayed them with a super fine mist twice daily and they always seemed to drink. They have actually turned out to be quite hardy, as I've only lost 2 out of 20-ish nymphs to random deaths--perhaps you just ended up with weaker stock?


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## CosbyArt (Apr 22, 2016)

jseng said:


> Sorry, to hear you keep losing nymphs, that really sucks!    How often do they eat and drink? At L1, mine ate pretty much every single day (though only 1-3 fruit flies each time) and I sprayed them with a super fine mist twice daily and they always seemed to drink. They have actually turned out to be quite hardy, as I've only lost 2 out of 20-ish nymphs to random deaths--perhaps you just ended up with weaker stock?


They are fed both Melanogaster and springtails daily, and misted twice a day as well (I increased the misting a few days ago). Even the ones I witness eating regularly don't make it beyond 17 days. They range from 6 days to 17 days old before they are found dead in the bottom of their cups, or sitting on their stick as if asleep.

Perhaps the ooths dried out too much after I received the ooths back in October. In all honestly though I am a bit surprised at how badly it is going, as they all keep dying off. At the moment I have 9 nymphs, and they have been hatching more regularly now. My current oldest nymphs hatched the 17th, just five days ago.


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## Krissim Klaw (Apr 26, 2016)

CosbyArt said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Glad to hear you were able to raise the Brunner's, so far my nymphs seem to all die a few weeks after hatching (even if I witness them eating). As I offer them both springtails and Melanogasters, they seem to like both, I'm at a loss to the issue. They are getting plenty of water/humidity, and the heat ranges from about 73 - 87 F. The search continues.


I've only kept the species once but I had some odd deaths with them as nymphs also. I had two that were eating fine then after a shedding suddenly stopped being able to properly pass waste and ended up perishing.  I only kept three so not sure what sort of overall percentage it was out of the oothecae that had the problem. I had heard they were usually fairly robust so found it strange at the time. Meanwhile the third I kept raised up under the same conditions without issue. Sadly she never produced proper ootheca though. She would start to lay a tiny dab of foam and then just drop out the eggs with no covering.


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## mantisman 230 (Apr 26, 2016)

Brunners sure are weird xD


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## CosbyArt (Apr 28, 2016)

Finally I'm having some luck with my Brunner's. The ones I've left in the incubation container are doing fine, and three nymphs so far have molted to L2 now. I can only assume it is due to the thicker plastic container holding in more heat, or prevents large temperature changes too quickly. Either way it works.  

I hope to post some photos of all the new nymphs and molts soon.


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## dmina (May 11, 2016)

Wow Thomas.. Great thread... glad I was able to catch up.. Thanks for sharing


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## CosbyArt (May 11, 2016)

dmina said:


> Wow Thomas.. Great thread... glad I was able to catch up.. Thanks for sharing


Thanks, just lots of little ones. I really should post more photos, as some have gotten much bigger lately.


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## CosbyArt (May 13, 2016)

Still have a occasional Brunner's hatching - I have seven in the incubation container right now and they are doing as well as can be expected. I had one of my Carolina ooths from a wild caught female last fall do a scout hatch last night, so hopefully it will hatch soon.

As a experiment I left my Chinese (Tenodera sinensis) nymphs in the 5 gallon container to see how long they can remain together (as it is a common question and I had no real data on what instar), as I have many Chinese ooths left to hatch anyway and I do not want to release this species back into the wild. Here are some numbers of their progress as they are now L5 and will be separated individually.

March 26, 2016 - L1 - The ooth hatched, and I had about 100 nymphs (a small hatch from a ooth)
April 9, 2016 - L2 - Molted to L2 and have about 40 nymphs (At this point I removed a two nymphs as pets)
April 16, 2016 - L3 - Molted to L3 and 10 nymphs left
April 30, 2016 - L4 - Molted to L4 with 7 nymphs left
May 3, 2016 - L4 - 4 nymphs left
May 5, 2016 - L5 - Molted to L5 with 3 left
May 9, 2016 - L5 - 2 nymphs, and they are often side by side on the lid

As usual the molt to L2 about half the nymphs died off as expected due to birthing defects and molting issues. The nymphs have been feed daily, about two Melanogaster flies each, and at L3 onward I fed Hydei flies until I switched them to small crickets at L5. The container had plenty of room for the nymphs as well to keep cannibalism down. However, though after L2 cannibalism became a issue as only 25% survived to L3.

As of my writing two nymphs are in the communal tank at L5, and only one pet removed on April 9 to it's own habitat is alive (as I original took two). Also as something of note the remaining communal nymphs are larger and molt sooner than the individually housed nymphs from the same ooth that are fed the same. That is something that I have noticed from all my other hatched ooths too, and I tend to put off housing them individually as they turn out better/hardier after some cannibalism.

So it is safe to say after L2 the nymphs need to be housed individually to prevent large-scale cannibalism with this species.

Here is a photo of one of the communal nymphs now ...


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## avn (May 13, 2016)

Thanks for doing the science! 

I'm been keeping some communally and have noticed the communal ones are bigger too.

i've been keeping l2's together and haven't noticed too much cannibolism - most of the recent deaths seem to be from late  molts to l2 that mismolt and get trapped in their skin. Had a couple of those...


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## Krissim Klaw (May 13, 2016)

I wounder if some of it has to do with the communal ones getting more food. I can almost always tell who has cannibalized because they end up fatter than their neighbors. Some also get more food than siblings so you get the more robust looking ones while those that had a slower start loose out. This in turn results in some shedding faster. Mantises that are slightly larger than their siblings have an advantage when it comes to fighting for food or going after other siblings. Even more so when they get a shedding ahead. Thus in a communal setting the naturally larger nymphs probably have a higher rate of survival while in single setups size won't play much of a factor in survival.

I've found advantages either way. In single set ups I tend to have less problems but realistically single set ups eat up a lot of time when you have oothecae worth of nymphs hatching out. The big thing I've found with most of my nymphs is making sure they get water to drink on a daily basis. Usually I do twice a day if I know they are coming up on shedding. I'm not sure how people do it in tanks. With my net cages I soak everything because if it the water isn't where the nymph is standing they probably aren't going to get a drink. Since I use net it dries out quickly so there is no worry for stagnant water. I would be afraid of over spraying if I tried a similar method in a tank/deli cup though.


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## CosbyArt (May 13, 2016)

avn said:


> Thanks for doing the science!
> 
> I'm been keeping some communally and have noticed the communal ones are bigger too.
> 
> i've been keeping l2's together and haven't noticed too much cannibolism - most of the recent deaths seem to be from late  molts to l2 that mismolt and get trapped in their skin. Had a couple of those...


Glad to hear you have the same results of the larger nymphs when kept communal. It is a curious event though, if they are kept separate it can be assured they are fed plenty; however, as the individual housed nymphs are smaller it can't be feeder related. That only leaves the idea that nymphs that cannibalize get something that makes them grow better - Or is related to stress making them grow quicker to get a jump on the others themselves rather than becoming a victim. Either way it is rather interesting what causes it.

It is common for natives species in-particular to only have 15-25% of hatching nymphs to make it to adulthood. If you are fairing better than that then you are doing good.


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## Krissim Klaw (May 13, 2016)

CosbyArt said:


> It is common for natives species in-particular to only have 15-25% of hatching nymphs to make it to adulthood. If you are fairing better than that then you are doing good.


You mean in the wild or are you talking captive raised?


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## CosbyArt (May 13, 2016)

Krissim Klaw said:


> I wounder if some of it has to do with the communal ones getting more food. I can almost always tell who has cannibalized because they end up fatter than their neighbors. Some also get more food than siblings so you get the more robust looking ones while those that had a slower start loose out. This in turn results in some shedding faster. Mantises that are slightly larger than their siblings have an advantage when it comes to fighting for food or going after other siblings. Even more so when they get a shedding ahead. Thus in a communal setting the naturally larger nymphs probably have a higher rate of survival while in single setups size won't play much of a factor in survival.
> 
> I've found advantages either way. In single set ups I tend to have less problems but realistically single set ups eat up a lot of time when you have oothecae worth of nymphs hatching out. The big thing I've found with most of my nymphs is making sure they get water to drink on a daily basis. Usually I do twice a day if I know they are coming up on shedding. I'm not sure how people do it in tanks. With my net cages I soak everything because if it the water isn't where the nymph is standing they probably aren't going to get a drink. Since I use net it dries out quickly so there is no worry for stagnant water. I would be afraid of over spraying if I tried a similar method in a tank/deli cup though.


Thanks for writing. Personally I know my individual nymphs have access to more feeders, so in that theory they should be larger if it is food related. Of course they are actually smaller so it must be one of two things mentioned above (Some nutrient they get from cannibalizing, or stress making them molt quicker to defend themselves).

As long as your smaller habitats have substrate it will soak-up any excess water so there is no problem there. Plus any decent ventilation fixes the problem of over-watering too. Either way as normally recommended just mist/water enough that it evaporates in 30 minutes or less and it won't be a problem, no matter the setup as long as it isn't a airtight container the water amount can be adjusted.


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## CosbyArt (May 13, 2016)

Krissim Klaw said:


> You mean in the wild or are you talking captive raised?


That is captive species. As there is no way to know how many mantids make it in the wild as they can freely move out of the area (and others can move in). Not to mention how many wild ooths are around unknown, that would really be a nightmare to try and get any accurate estimations.  

The 15-25% rating is found on Yen Saw's old website logs, and has been discussed numerous times on various threads on here as well in the last few years (let alone before that).


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## Krissim Klaw (May 13, 2016)

CosbyArt said:


> Thanks for writing. Personally I know my individual nymphs have access to more feeders, so in that theory they should be larger if it is food related. Of course they are actually smaller so it must be one of two things mentioned above (Some nutrient they get from cannibalizing, or stress making them molt quicker to defend themselves).
> 
> As long as your smaller habitats have substrate it will soak-up any excess water so there is no problem there. Plus any decent ventilation fixes the problem of over-watering too. Either way as normally recommended just mist/water enough that it evaporates in 30 minutes or less and it won't be a problem, no matter the setup as long as it isn't a airtight container the water amount can be adjusted.


How do you know the individual mantises are getting more food? In a communal setup mantises always have other mantises so they always have a food source. I suppose an interesting study would be to take a couple dozen nymphs and place them in individual enclosures and feed half of them another mantis in addition to feeders while giving the other group additional feeders in place of the mantis. Outside of this everyone would get the same amount, and then see how everyone turns out size wise.

I've never misted heavily in a tank with only a lid for ventilation. Does it usually dry out pretty quick then?



CosbyArt said:


> That is captive species. As there is no way to know how many mantids make it in the wild as they can freely move out of the area (and others can move in). Not to mention how many wild ooths are around unknown, that would really be a nightmare to try and get any accurate estimations.
> 
> The 15-25% rating is found on Yen Saw's old website logs, and has been discussed numerous times on various threads on here as well in the last few years (let alone before that).


Ahh 15-24% just seems really low to me. I don't tend to raise up all nymphs though from most oothecae hatchings though. I usually end up picking out some and releasing the rest when it comes to natives. When I pick ones out to raise up though the survival rate to adulthood is pretty high, although maybe I'm just good at picking out the robust ones.


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## CosbyArt (May 14, 2016)

Krissim Klaw said:


> How do you know the individual mantises are getting more food? In a communal setup mantises always have other mantises so they always have a food source. I suppose an interesting study would be to take a couple dozen nymphs and place them in individual enclosures and feed half of them another mantis in addition to feeders while giving the other group additional feeders in place of the mantis. Outside of this everyone would get the same amount, and then see how everyone turns out size wise.
> 
> I've never misted heavily in a tank with only a lid for ventilation. Does it usually dry out pretty quick then?
> 
> Ahh 15-24% just seems really low to me. I don't tend to raise up all nymphs though from most oothecae hatchings though. I usually end up picking out some and releasing the rest when it comes to natives. When I pick ones out to raise up though the survival rate to adulthood is pretty high, although maybe I'm just good at picking out the robust ones.


That's easy, as they are housed alone they get a few extra feeders anyway to ensure they find them. So in that aspect the individual nymphs have access to more feeders, and no fighting involved either so it is known they are getting at least their minimum (of course the flies die of natural causes too). That might be a interesting study, but I'm not willing to feed them another mantid species.  

The cups can, but as mentioned the misting amount is altered to ensure it evaporates in 30 minutes (it isn't such a heavy dousing as can be done with net cages, a few times doing it though and the amount to use is learned).

If you are waiting until the L2 stage or later then the nymphs to choose from are the stronger stock already (as the problem nymphs tend to die before L2). Of course, if you are choosing larger or more active nymphs as well that betters your chances too.  Regarding the percentage it depends on the species as some hatch low numbers but stronger nymphs, so some are closer to 75%.

For Chinese nymphs though if every nymph survived from each ooth laid that would give rise to at least a thousand mantids from a single mother's ooths of the previous year. They hatch high numbers (100-200 for Chinese) to ensure the best chances for some to survive, otherwise they would be a nuisance like cockroaches in numbers. Much like sea turtles egg nests hatch 50 to 250 or more turtles - with such high numbers they have a fighting chance against predators as predators can only eat so much.


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## Krissim Klaw (May 14, 2016)

CosbyArt said:


> For Chinese nymphs though if every nymph survived from each ooth laid that would give rise to at least a thousand mantids from a single mother's ooths of the previous year. They hatch high numbers (100-200 for Chinese) to ensure the best chances for some to survive, otherwise they would be a nuisance like cockroaches in numbers. Much like sea turtles egg nests hatch 50 to 250 or more turtles - with such high numbers they have a fighting chance against predators as predators can only eat so much.


In the wild there are predators though and an unpredictable environment to cull numbers. I will agree that some species do have better survival rates in captivity, although I don't think Chinese mantises should be having as low success rates in captivity as I see some people reporting. I feel that has more to do with the fact they aren't the best suited for the way people typically raise mantises in captivity. They are a mantis that likes space, and stresses easy when crowded in communal setups because of how active and voracious they are. Because of the large hatch rates they are often more likely to be overcrowded in communal setups as a lot of people don't upscale enough to account for the higher numbers.

At the same time with the huge oothecae hatch rate individual care quality is probably going to drop for someone attempting to spend time with each mantis in separate set ups. As for the nuisance part, Chinese sort of are like the roach of the mantis world at least in the USA. They have the widest range and can often be found liberally anywhere you find mantises. It's no surprise they are the ones that are most often sold as beneficial insects with as easy as it is to collect oothecae from the wild.

I've run the gambit as far as when picking mantises out from releasable species. When I pick them out of later instars though I am factoring in how many mantises died while getting to those later instars that I am picking out of. I just didn't see the excessive deaths in them that some have reported.

I should note I'm not saying this to knock people that choose to let them wheedle down to on a few robust individuals. We certainly don't need more of them added to the wild and it is cheaper to get an ootheca than pay shipping for a couple live Chinese sold as pets. It just seems like people always point at the abysmally low survival rates in captivity as the species being inferior, when I feel husbandry is often part of it. I'm always sad when I see people knock them as a starter species for the same reasons when this is the species that got me into mantises.


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## avn (May 14, 2016)

Oh CosbyArt, I just realized.  You removed two nymphs early on and raised them individually, right? and now they're smaller than the two remaining communal ones.

That makes sense if we assume cannibolism means that only larger mantises survived, maybe the two remaining ones are the two biggest from the hatch.  Since your control group is just two mantises you raised individually I think this isn't surprising.  I'd expect a random two mantises to

be smaller than the two largest mantises.

i think to do this experiment and figure out if the communal housing does make them bigger, you should hatch and ooth and randomly choose a group for each nymph.  Raise half individually and half communally and see if the maximum sizes are different. 

The communal group will have a higher average size because of cannibolism but maybe the max size is not more...


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## CosbyArt (May 15, 2016)

Krissim Klaw said:


> In the wild there are predators though and an unpredictable environment to cull numbers. I will agree that some species do have better survival rates in captivity, although I don't think Chinese mantises should be having as low success rates in captivity as I see some people reporting. I feel that has more to do with the fact they aren't the best suited for the way people typically raise mantises in captivity. They are a mantis that likes space, and stresses easy when crowded in communal setups because of how active and voracious they are. Because of the large hatch rates they are often more likely to be overcrowded in communal setups as a lot of people don't upscale enough to account for the higher numbers.
> 
> At the same time with the huge oothecae hatch rate individual care quality is probably going to drop for someone attempting to spend time with each mantis in separate set ups. As for the nuisance part, Chinese sort of are like the roach of the mantis world at least in the USA. They have the widest range and can often be found liberally anywhere you find mantises. It's no surprise they are the ones that are most often sold as beneficial insects with as easy as it is to collect oothecae from the wild.
> 
> ...


Some good points, and some do have better numbers with their care. I just used Chinese as they are so hardy and with such a large number of starting ones it was a good one to see the instar level to separate at (and is one that many new members do find at local stores to try first).

Not sure how I knocked the species, and if I did it was unintentional. As mentioned it was a good species to use. I personally have kept them in the past as pets, and still do. I can't say I'm a big a fan of LAME (as he had his member rank changed to Tenodera sinensis... the one and only  ).



avn said:


> Oh CosbyArt, I just realized.  You removed two nymphs early on and raised them individually, right? and now they're smaller than the two remaining communal ones.
> 
> That makes sense if we assume cannibolism means that only larger mantises survived, maybe the two remaining ones are the two biggest from the hatch.  Since your control group is just two mantises you raised individually I think this isn't surprising.  I'd expect a random two mantises to
> 
> ...


Yes I removed some nymphs at L2. Indeed that theory could be correct, I would have to do a larger group of each to see which theory is the right one. Either way it is interesting the communal ones are larger, as it always seems the case from all the ooths I've hatched.


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## Krissim Klaw (May 15, 2016)

CosbyArt said:


> Not sure how I knocked the species, and if I did it was unintentional. As mentioned it was a good species to use. I personally have kept them in the past as pets, and still do. I can't say I'm a big a fan of LAME (as he had his member rank changed to Tenodera sinensis... the one and only  ).


No you didn't knock the species it just seems to happen a lot these days anytime I see anyone asking about good beginner species. I still think they make a great beginner species, especially since you can easily get an entire ootheca for often less than it would be to get a couple nymphs of something else shipped out. Plus they have such great personalities for someone wanting an active mantis they can easily handle.

No fair I'm jealous of LAME's title.

As far as instars, I've found the older the mantises get the more space they need per an individual to keep cannibalization down, which I guess sort of is common sense considering they are getting bigger with each shedding. I usually try to make an effort to keep mantises of a similar shedding rates in cages together. As they shed up in size, I will often remove and start another cage and slowly rotate everyone through the ranks. It generally works well unless you get a night like tonight. After checking on them and tallying who needs to be moved I went to the first cage only to see one had just started to shed while I was thinking on what to do. Not wanting to disturb the little one I was like cool, I'll do the other cage first, and of course another nymph had just started to shed in there. It is fun to look in though and see a bunch of freshly shed skins when they all start to pop at once though.


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## CosbyArt (May 16, 2016)

Yeah I know what you mean it seems the species gets a bad rep as it is naturalized species, and often can be found in areas where other mantids are not. I'm not sure if it is due to their larger size making it easier to wipe out other species, or they can simply cope better in the environment where others can not.

Regarding a beginners species many keepers tend to say the species requires more care than recommended for a beginner. You are right about the price point though as they are by far the most accessible species, and even stocked by many local garden centers.

He is proud of his title too.  There was talk of member ranks and changes a few years ago on the forum, perhaps you can suggest some more stages to the system. Of course you could ask for a custom rank, there is one head mod who could do it.  

Interesting, do you find you can keep the species together longer if they are the same instar? If so what instar do they get housed individually? It is a great sight to see many fresh molts, I know when my nymphs all start to molt to L2 the habitat floor was covered in exuviae.


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## Krissim Klaw (May 16, 2016)

Yep, I find the nymphs being the same instar helps. It's more intimidating to pick on a mantis your own size. Then of course there is keeping them fat, which is one of the things I dislike about communal setups. I usually end up having to keep them heavier than I prefer. With their earlier instars this really isn't an issue but the older/larger they get the higher chance being extra heavy can ad risk to molts. If I have time I will often supervise a bit when I feed as that tends to be when nymphs can be triggered into fights/cannibalization. They both see the same feeder and it is on.

Usually I start to separate once I can reliably sex nymphs by eyesight alone, which can vary some depending on species. This is when I pick out my keepers for pets, although often I will have a couple who have already caught my eye and have been set aside. Since I only keep 2-5 mantises at a time, making sure I get the number of girls/boys I want is important if I have any interest in breeding.

With native species I tend to slowly release as I go. I'll release some after hatching, then keep the rest through the first shedding, then let some more go, and so on until I can sex them. My communal setups tend to be fairly small as it stresses me out looking at mantises and feeling like they are stressed because of overcrowding. At L1 I typically don't keep more than 12 per a net cube. Then when they get to L2 I will knock it down to 6-7 per a net cube. Most of my Carolinas have shed to L3 now and I'll end up releasing some more again so I am down to 4 per a net cube, with 4 separate cages total. By L4 I should be able to sex them without much issue. With the Carolinas I've only had one missmolt and a couple cases of cannibalization up until this point. This species seems very hearty and robust.


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## CosbyArt (May 16, 2016)

Krissim Klaw said:


> Yep, I find the nymphs being the same instar helps. It's more intimidating to pick on a mantis your own size. Then of course there is keeping them fat, which is one of the things I dislike about communal setups. I usually end up having to keep them heavier than I prefer. With their earlier instars this really isn't an issue but the older/larger they get the higher chance being extra heavy can ad risk to molts. If I have time I will often supervise a bit when I feed as that tends to be when nymphs can be triggered into fights/cannibalization. They both see the same feeder and it is on.
> 
> Usually I start to separate once I can reliably sex nymphs by eyesight alone, which can vary some depending on species. This is when I pick out my keepers for pets, although often I will have a couple who have already caught my eye and have been set aside. Since I only keep 2-5 mantises at a time, making sure I get the number of girls/boys I want is important if I have any interest in breeding.
> 
> With native species I tend to slowly release as I go. I'll release some after hatching, then keep the rest through the first shedding, then let some more go, and so on until I can sex them. My communal setups tend to be fairly small as it stresses me out looking at mantises and feeling like they are stressed because of overcrowding. At L1 I typically don't keep more than 12 per a net cube. Then when they get to L2 I will knock it down to 6-7 per a net cube. Most of my Carolinas have shed to L3 now and I'll end up releasing some more again so I am down to 4 per a net cube, with 4 separate cages total. By L4 I should be able to sex them without much issue. With the Carolinas I've only had one missmolt and a couple cases of cannibalization up until this point. This species seems very hearty and robust.


Sounds like the trick you learned is supervising their feeding, which has got to help.  

It definitely helps to have a few of each sex when it comes to breeding.  Do you do it very often? Is it to fulfill their goals, so you can have new offspring, or to help with the hobby expense? I ask as all are valid reasons but seems everyone is drawn to breeding for one reason or another.

Great sounds like you had some good luck with the Carolina ooths. With several released in various instars hopefully they will be a common sight in your backyard.


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## Krissim Klaw (May 17, 2016)

CosbyArt said:


> Sounds like the trick you learned is supervising their feeding, which has got to help.
> 
> It definitely helps to have a few of each sex when it comes to breeding.  Do you do it very often? Is it to fulfill their goals, so you can have new offspring, or to help with the hobby expense? I ask as all are valid reasons but seems everyone is drawn to breeding for one reason or another.
> 
> Great sounds like you had some good luck with the Carolina ooths. With several released in various instars hopefully they will be a common sight in your backyard.


I mostly breed because I end up humanizing them in my mind. It is hard for me to see the girl's calling so plaintively and expending so much energy on oothecae, knowing they are infertile. Then there are the boys that roam/flutter around in there cages in the dark of night, endlessly searching for a lady mantis to romance. I don't really notice hobby expense with as little as I tend to pay out of pocket. I raise my own feeders and typically only buy/trade for mantises about once a year as my old ones age out. Feeding my roach colony probably costs the most on a yearly basis. Sad to say but sometimes I think they get more fruits and veggies in their diet on a daily basis than I do. I really need to start feeding them my junkfood and eat what I am giving them instead. :sweatdrop: 

It would be nice to see a yard full of mantises. Sadly it doesn't seem like I get much around the house even when I release. I think the competition might be too fierce mixed with the fact the grass is regularly cut. I don't get a lot of grasshoppers either and I've noticed mantises tend to like the same places you often find grasshoppers. It is a bummer as I get literally everything else under the sun though.


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## CosbyArt (May 18, 2016)

Krissim Klaw said:


> I mostly breed because I end up humanizing them in my mind. It is hard for me to see the girl's calling so plaintively and expending so much energy on oothecae, knowing they are infertile. Then there are the boys that roam/flutter around in there cages in the dark of night, endlessly searching for a lady mantis to romance. I don't really notice hobby expense with as little as I tend to pay out of pocket. I raise my own feeders and typically only buy/trade for mantises about once a year as my old ones age out. Feeding my roach colony probably costs the most on a yearly basis. Sad to say but sometimes I think they get more fruits and veggies in their diet on a daily basis than I do. I really need to start feeding them my junkfood and eat what I am giving them instead. :sweatdrop:
> 
> It would be nice to see a yard full of mantises. Sadly it doesn't seem like I get much around the house even when I release. I think the competition might be too fierce mixed with the fact the grass is regularly cut. I don't get a lot of grasshoppers either and I've noticed mantises tend to like the same places you often find grasshoppers. It is a bummer as I get literally everything else under the sun though.


I'm in the same boat, I tend to breed them for pets and help them with their goal in life.  Indeed if keeping feeders is done, the hobby can be a small expense.

Expense isn't the point though, as with another hobby of mine music, you wouldn't believe the amount of my money I spend to get some decent vintage equipment then to get it up and running great again - and the records/tapes/cds/etc. One of my favorites is analog tapes (8 tracks, cassettes, and reel to reels - in that order), I like the unique sound and it actually makes me want to listen to music and make new tapes. Sure I have digital music, I do needle drops (recording my vinyl records to preserve them) and other formats to mp3s as well and buying mp3s too, (I currently have 11,163 songs that are 320cbr bitrate on my PC (way better than I can hear so no need for flac)), but I rarely play them on my PC. I record them to tape and listen that way, or play the original formats - I much prefer it than the digital files. Anyway the point is we do things for the love of the hobby and not to recoup money, as that would be a job.  

Long way to make a point lol. I'm glad though you are in it for the enjoyment of the hobby, it makes it more fun.  

A trick I learned to keep mantids around is to leave a area in my yard "wild". I leave my carport area alone, and it let the local weeds and vines flourish around it and over the fence. It is about a foot from the fence on both sides around the area, and it is enough. It gives me plenty of insect life and mantids too, and is worth it.

Besides letting a area run wild you can also plant some flower beds full of larger flowers like lilacs, rose bushes, and have large flowering bushes. I think she has about a dozen species of plants but can't remember them at the moment. We have about 1/2 the backyard covered in a few large flower beds, besides looking nice, it attracts lots of insects and mantids. As a bonus we covered the border around them with geode rocks (6 pickup truck loads full) and I can collect many isopods, centipedes, arachnids, beetles, and other things just from under the rocks - and leads to other insect pets.


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## CosbyArt (May 24, 2016)

Finally some good news with my Brunner's mantis nymphs. Their population has been slowly growing, and I have a few ranging from L1 to L3 now. Here is a photo of some on the incubation container lid (hard to see through the layers, but you can see their sizes). So hopefully several will make it to adulthood.


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## Chrisv8855 (May 31, 2016)

My L3 female giant african mantis.her name is big bertha.ive seen her eat five crickets one after the other.cannot keep crickets around long cause she eats them all,eats everything but the legs lol


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## dmina (Jun 4, 2016)

Wishing you luck with those nymphs Thomas...

Chrisv8855 that sure is a nice looking giant African she looks well fed...


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## CosbyArt (Jun 7, 2016)

Chrisv8855 said:


> My L3 female giant african mantis.her name is big bertha.ive seen her eat five crickets one after the other.cannot keep crickets around long cause she eats them all,eats everything but the legs lol


Your girl Bertha seems to be doing great. You should start your own mantid thread and post pictures, it's always nice to be able to look back at them as time goes on.



dmina said:


> Wishing you luck with those nymphs Thomas...


Thanks Denise. So far the numbers are dwindling however the larger ones are still molting and have gotten much bigger lately.


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## Chrisv8855 (Jun 7, 2016)

O yeah! She is doing great.my male giant African molted a few days ago,an L4 already.decided to name him Bruno.

Tomorrow I'll be receiving a double shield mantis,cant wait! And the next couple days I think I'll be getting a few giant rainforest mantis!


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## CosbyArt (Oct 13, 2016)

I recently got a new species the New Zealand (Orthodera novaezealandiae), and I have three nymphs. I got them from TylerHoorn, here is the post about that. They are a rather inquisitive species, love to do the leaf/wind dance, and for those reasons (and others) reminds me of the Ghost mantises (Phyllocrania paradoxa). They do however have a large thorax shield and I can't wait till they age to see what they look like as adults.







I also rescued a female I named Rosy, a Chinese mantis (Tenodera sinensis) over a month ago. She was injured by September 4th, when I first saw her, I'm not sure how though. I took to feeding her wild crickets I caught and she hung around like that about a week. After the week I decided to just take her inside, where she still demands hand feeding with my tweezers (as she will wait by her feeding hole once I remove the sponge, and wait for prey offered to her, any loose placed inside she ignored until they bother her near the lid).


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## LAME (Oct 16, 2016)

Krissim Klaw said:


> No fair I'm jealous of LAME's title.


Mehehe... Awe, jealous doesn't look good on you.


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## CosbyArt (Nov 7, 2016)

I came home from work today, pulled into my ivy covered carport, and saw several of the Japanese lady bugs swarming around in the upper 60F weather. I took a quick look around hoping to find a ooth or two to hatch out. Well I found a Chinese (Tenodera sinensis) female staring me down.





I went inside to get my net and a habitat for her, and after getting her secured I found a gravid Caroline female (Stagmomantis carolina) just a few feet away. I got her in the net and walked her inside and put her into her own habitat as well. More searching turned up no more mantids, and I'll wait a bit longer before pulling through the ivy to search for ooths (as apparently even in the 30/40 F lows there are still a few females out there laying ooths).


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## CellyBean (Nov 9, 2016)

i would love to have a carolina and a brunners mantis


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## CosbyArt (Nov 9, 2016)

My Carolina mother laid her ooth on a branch, and just recently finished. Here she is just minutes ago, resting.  








CellyBean said:


> i would love to have a carolina and a brunners mantis


I would have agreed about the Brunner's mantis (Brunneria borealis) awhile back but since my ooths (see my previous posts) I take care of any nymphs that may hatch (been a few months since the last one now) and hope at least one will survive - not sure what the issue is, but I know I'm going to try them again anytime soon.

Carolina's (Stagmomantis carolina) is still one of my favorites, and started this hobby with my first mantis I rescued. I don't have any for sale right now, perhaps in a few months I'll have some Carolina nymphs running around.  

You can buy mantids from the classified section (see the feedback section about the sellers too). Of course there are many great sites to buy mantids from online such as BugsInCyberspace, MantisPlace, and MantisPets the most common and recommended for mantis themselves.

Perhaps you may have some luck finding one or more mantids, or their ooths, yourself too - it is rather late for mantids, but the right time for ooths. See my guide here for tips/photos/information on finding them.


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## CosbyArt (Nov 17, 2016)

My Chinese girl laid her first ooth for me late Tuesday (Nov 15th). I was in the process of feeding all my pets when I realized what she was up to and got out my camera.


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## Sarah K (Nov 17, 2016)

CONGRATS on the ooths! Sounds like you will have lots of babies this spring!


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## CosbyArt (Nov 17, 2016)

Sarah K said:


> CONGRATS on the ooths! Sounds like you will have lots of babies this spring!


Thanks.  I plan to hatch a few over the winter, but will keep most diapaused until spring for re-release.  

With the last of the warm temperatures this week I was hoping to find a few more mantids, but it seems the 20F lows last week finished off any still around this late. Even with my beating sheets I didn't find any, or a single crab spider (usually I find about a dozen each time I beat a plant, during spring/summer), and only one tiny jumping spider. Seems the only thing left is some flying insects, at least until we hit the below freeze temps again this weekend and remaining until spring.  

Really makes me wish I lived some place warm year around.


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## Storm&bugfreak (Nov 18, 2016)

Congratulations @CosbyArt! That's awesome you're able to hold a female chinese this late in the season and have it lay it's sack! All of my chinese mantids I've ever kept never would make it past late October for some reason. I.E. the female I had in September went downhill fast after she laid what was her last Ooth.. I think she had laid quite a few in her adulthood before I caught her   But alas that last sack she laid was fertile and as some of you know hatched!

And I know what you mean about this weather changing and all the insects dying off.. I saw a male chinese mantis fly around on campus a couple of weeks ago when it was still warmer. Never made the effort to catch him though as he might have lived a long life already. But that was the very last wild mantis I saw.   

I cannot wait until next summer though. I plan on making a few trips to Lake Monroe then and mantis search! I went there this past summer in late July to look at geodes and I saw tons of mantids there of all sorts, adult, some sub-adult, Carolinas.. Chinese.. And one very mean female chinese mantis that immediately displayed her threat pose when I got within 2 feet of her.  h34r:


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## CosbyArt (Nov 18, 2016)

Storm&amp;bugfreak said:


> Congratulations @CosbyArt! That's awesome you're able to hold a female chinese this late in the season and have it lay it's sack! All of my chinese mantids I've ever kept never would make it past late October for some reason. I.E. the female I had in September went downhill fast after she laid what was her last Ooth.. I think she had laid quite a few in her adulthood before I caught her   But alas that last sack she laid was fertile and as some of you know hatched!
> 
> And I know what you mean about this weather changing and all the insects dying off.. I saw a male chinese mantis fly around on campus a couple of weeks ago when it was still warmer. Never made the effort to catch him though as he might have lived a long life already. But that was the very last wild mantis I saw.
> 
> I cannot wait until next summer though. I plan on making a few trips to Lake Monroe then and mantis search! I went there this past summer in late July to look at geodes and I saw tons of mantids there of all sorts, adult, some sub-adult, Carolinas.. Chinese.. And one very mean female chinese mantis that immediately displayed her threat pose when I got within 2 feet of her.  h34r:


It is a first for me finding any this late in the year.  Usually I collect females in early to mid October and they tend to die off by December, but have had some that make it as long as February.  

Yeah I hear you there, but at least the last male got a chance to find another mate and lived his life free.

Well if you do come up to go to Lake Monroe, send me a PM before hand as you are free to stop by (you pass me here in Bedford to get there lol). If you want I can show you my pets, and we can talk hobby.  Perhaps afterwards would be better, that way you can show off your catches too.

See my next post below.


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## CosbyArt (Nov 18, 2016)

I had a previous Chinese (Tenodera sinensis) female I collected September 27th, and my wife named her Nikki. She laid a tiny messed-up ooth shortly afterwards, and as it was so small and several eggs were exposed I thought it was a dud. Sadly it was her last ooth, and she died a few days after her ooth, living only a little over a week with me. I looked through my photos, but can't see any of her, likely due to the short time I didn't get any either.  

I left her ooth in her original habitat just in case though, and thought nothing more of it. Well it started hatching tonight!  

At the moment I am counting only 7 Chinese nymphs, but even that amazes me from such a tiny/weird ooth and the quick hatching time without any diapause, but perhaps there may be some more in the morning. In the top middle of the photo you can see the tiny ooth Nikki laid, and several of her nymphs running around in there. Tomorrow I'll have to get some better photos when they are done hatching, and as I have only 2 hours until I have to get up for work.


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## Sarah K (Nov 18, 2016)

CosbyArt said:


> I had a previous Chinese (Tenodera sinensis) female I collected September 27th, and my wife named her Nikki. She laid a tiny messed-up ooth shortly afterwards, and as it was so small and several eggs were exposed I thought it was a dud. Sadly it was her last ooth, and she died a few days after her ooth, living only a little over a week with me. I looked through my photos, but can't see any of her, likely due to the short time I didn't get any either.
> 
> I left her ooth in her original habitat just in case though, and thought nothing more of it. Well it started hatching tonight!
> 
> At the moment I am counting only 7 Chinese nymphs, but even that amazes me from such a tiny/weird ooth and the quick hatching time without any diapause, but perhaps there may be some more in the morning. In the top middle of the photo you can see the tiny ooth Nikki laid, and several of her nymphs running around in there. Tomorrow I'll have to get some better photos when they are done hatching, and as I have only 2 hours until I have to get up for work.


That's really crazy! can't believe any hatched, and especially so quickly without a diapause!


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## CosbyArt (Nov 18, 2016)

Sarah K said:


> That's really crazy! can't believe any hatched, and especially so quickly without a diapause!


I agree, it is strange. Typically ooths I've hatched of Tenodera sinensis (and even Stagmomantis carolina) take a average of 90 days to hatch without any diapause. With diapause somewhere between 30-40 days. This ooth hatched in about 50 days, and still just seven nymphs in the container today.

I switched out the habitat lid to one with organza fabric to feed the nymphs fruit flies just now, so I took the opportunity and took some better shots (front and back) of the ooth that Nikki laid. It shows how small and abnormal it really is.  

I placed the lid with the ooth still attached onto another container, just in case any more nymphs decide to hatch later on. At this point I'm not sure what to expect from it.


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## Storm&bugfreak (Nov 21, 2016)

Hey @CosbyArt! Wow, congrats on the hatch!   That is astonishing it hatched so quicky! Come to think about it, my female back in late September laid hers right on the 2nd of October and it hatched on November 7th.. The ooth was real rough looking too, but it was a decent size.. It's just the foam was flaking off everywhere prior to hatching and it looked like it shriveled and dried up. Think the incubation period was just over 30 days! I was very surprised.. Not only did I think it was a dud, if it were to ever hatch, I wasn't expecting anything to happen until January! I really am wondering if their non-diapaused ooths can hatch much sooner than the 90 days that many people think they hatch in. It's such a great feeling when you get a surprise hatch!

As for meeting up with you in the long run during Lake Monroe, I'd love to! I'll for sure PM you around that time regarding that! Maybe we can scout the park together sometime and see what we can collect. That park is absolutely filled with them, especially in Late July! All sorts of them in different stages, and a good variety of Carolinas, Chinese, and I'm sure other species that I have yet to learn about that are naturalized!


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## CosbyArt (Nov 21, 2016)

Storm&amp;bugfreak said:


> Hey @CosbyArt! Wow, congrats on the hatch!    That is astonishing it hatched so quicky! Come to think about it, my female back in late September laid hers right on the 2nd of October and it hatched on November 7th.. The ooth was real rough looking too, but it was a decent size.. It's just the foam was flaking off everywhere prior to hatching and it looked like it shriveled and dried up. Think the incubation period was just over 30 days! I was very surprised.. Not only did I think it was a dud, if it were to ever hatch, I wasn't expecting anything to happen until January! I really am wondering if their non-diapaused ooths can hatch much sooner than the 90 days that many people think they hatch in. It's such a great feeling when you get a surprise hatch!
> 
> As for meeting up with you in the long run during Lake Monroe, I'd love to! I'll for sure PM you around that time regarding that! Maybe we can scout the park together sometime and see what we can collect. That park is absolutely filled with them, especially in Late July! All sorts of them in different stages, and a good variety of Carolinas, Chinese, and I'm sure other species that I have yet to learn about that are naturalized!


Not sure about other members, but I have listed 90 days for undiapaused ooths as that is the average of the dozens of native ooths I hatched and kept records for. Some are quicker of course, and others have taken longer too. I think I should reexamine my logs and see if I can find any variations on length - likely due to the higher temps as with the heat on in the house, upstairs we tend to be much warmer lately.  

Great to hear you had a ooth do the same, it is great to have some nymphs without the long wait.  

Alright sounds good, just let me know when you come this way next year. I've lived in this area my whole life, so I can show you some more accessible areas off the beaten path too, and another nearby lake area if your interested.


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## Storm&bugfreak (Nov 24, 2016)

CosbyArt said:


> Not sure about other members, but I have listed 90 days for undiapaused ooths as that is the average of the dozens of native ooths I hatched and kept records for. Some are quicker of course, and others have taken longer too. I think I should reexamine my logs and see if I can find any variations on length - likely due to the higher temps as with the heat on in the house, upstairs we tend to be much warmer lately.
> 
> Great to hear you had a ooth do the same, it is great to have some nymphs without the long wait.
> 
> Alright sounds good, just let me know when you come this way next year. I've lived in this area my whole life, so I can show you some more accessible areas off the beaten path too, and another nearby lake area if your interested.


@CosbyArt Yeah my room can get pretty toasty with my desktop sometimes.. I can see heat enhancing the hatch time a bit. Ones that have hatched while I was a kid always took two months or longer.. This one I had and your hatched pretty darn quick which is amazing. Since yours only had 7 hatch, I wonder if there will be a round 2!

And right on I'd love to check out some spots out in Indiana! I'm here out in Hebron so I'm right by the border.. Think where you live is under an hour away.. Monroe was always an hour and a half drive max.. Took 2 hours one time as I got lost on the gravel roads south of the park.. Also found two Carolinas during that ordeal! If you want I can show you some nice spots out here in Kentucky as well! Some fields and meadows are filled with them.. every golden rod top will have a mantis of some kind on it, not even kidding. Maybe do a trip down to Cumberland if those wildfires haven't wiped them out south of me.. Also.. My sister's place down in Pendleton county had about an acre of just random weeds, flowers, golden-rods, and a other tall grass, and I kid you not, I saw easily 10 praying mantises in one block and saw two pairs mating. I also believe I saw a Carolina and a Chinese mantis mating too down there which was odd. I don't know if her yard has all the grass/weeds/wild flowers as she might have cut them down for her horses.. But I may ask her to keep an acre far back for me to hunt in next summer    I've also checked out Idlewild, which is a park right up the street from me.. Lots of shrubs and tall plants there to look for them, but could never ever find any (I've noticed some places, they're everywhere, and others they are just non-existent.. I guess construction/urban expansion really is having an effect on them because I have to go pretty far out now to search for them.)


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## CosbyArt (Nov 25, 2016)

Storm&amp;bugfreak said:


> @CosbyArt Yeah my room can get pretty toasty with my desktop sometimes.. I can see heat enhancing the hatch time a bit. Ones that have hatched while I was a kid always took two months or longer.. This one I had and your hatched pretty darn quick which is amazing. Since yours only had 7 hatch, I wonder if there will be a round 2!
> 
> And right on I'd love to check out some spots out in Indiana! I'm here out in Hebron so I'm right by the border.. Think where you live is under an hour away.. Monroe was always an hour and a half drive max.. Took 2 hours one time as I got lost on the gravel roads south of the park.. Also found two Carolinas during that ordeal! If you want I can show you some nice spots out here in Kentucky as well! Some fields and meadows are filled with them.. every golden rod top will have a mantis of some kind on it, not even kidding. Maybe do a trip down to Cumberland if those wildfires haven't wiped them out south of me.. Also.. My sister's place down in Pendleton county had about an acre of just random weeds, flowers, golden-rods, and a other tall grass, and I kid you not, I saw easily 10 praying mantises in one block and saw two pairs mating. I also believe I saw a Carolina and a Chinese mantis mating too down there which was odd. I don't know if her yard has all the grass/weeds/wild flowers as she might have cut them down for her horses.. But I may ask her to keep an acre far back for me to hunt in next summer    I've also checked out Idlewild, which is a park right up the street from me.. Lots of shrubs and tall plants there to look for them, but could never ever find any (I've noticed some places, they're everywhere, and others they are just non-existent.. I guess construction/urban expansion really is having an effect on them because I have to go pretty far out now to search for them.)


Nothing more from the ooth yet, I really doubt I'll see any more hatch from that ooth - of course I didn't expect to see the ones that did hatch.  

I had to look up Hebron, and it seems your straight east of me in the Kentucky tip into Ohio, so with that travel you don't pass by here as I figured you were south.  Sure sounds great, I'm always up for new locations to search. I believe you on the numbers, as I often find 30-60 mantids on my sisters property at one time (I have to quit looking as I get too many).  

Sorry to hear you don't have any locations close by to search. I had many more myself, but the property owners started regularly mowing the areas last year so the mantid havens are fewer. While mantids do find isolated pockets to survive and even thrive in redeveloped property, it is much more difficult to find them in the urban setup.


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## CosbyArt (Dec 8, 2016)

My Chinese female (Tenodera sinensis) I caught/rescued November 7th, produced two ooths for me before she died, with likely many laid outside too. Her last ooth was much smaller and was a sign she was about to die, which she did two days later.

The little Carolina female (Stagmomantis carolina) I caught/rescued November 7th, is still going at it, and has produced three ooths so far and is currently enjoying a cricket.

From the Chinese nymphs that hatched from the "dud ooth" on November 18th, only two successfully molted to L2. Those two nymphs though are doing well and molted to L3 on Tuesday (Dec 6th). Here are some new photos of them, and I just separated them to individual homes for their safety (they seemed to enjoy each others company and never swatted at one another so I left them be until tonight - which I found odd as it tends to be against their nature).

My wife named the two nymphs Frick and Frack, which were the names of some twins in a Fern Michaels book she just finished reading.

I find it rather interesting the wide color variations between the two, especially as they were kept in the same habitat their whole lives until now.


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## CosbyArt (Dec 13, 2016)

The Carolina female (Stagmomantis carolina) I captured/rescued on November 7th died today. She laid three ooths total, and of course her last ooth was tiny compared to her previous ones - as that seems to be common sign from wild captured mantids.

The cycle of life though showed itself today, the death of my last adult female then another ooth hatching later.  

The wild Chinese mantis (Tenodera sinensis) ooth I collected on November 11th, is currently hatching (33 days incubated (just a few weeks of cold temps outside)). The photos are a bit discolored/rougher than usual as all the lights were off already for the night (the "bug" lights on the timer and room lights) as my wife was in bed, so I did the best I could. You can tell though from their nearly white colored bodies they just freshly hatched and haven't hardened yet - I figured it was worth bad lighting to get the shot of the new babies.


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## Sarah K (Dec 13, 2016)

Congrats on the hatch!


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## Kermit (Dec 13, 2016)

Cosby... What's in the cup? Sponge for humidity?

Congrats on the hatch


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## Storm&bugfreak (Dec 13, 2016)

@CosbyArt Congrats on the hatch! I just recently purchased an ooth online from a trusted site and should arrive at my house in the next day or two. I think it's winterized too! I'm definitely going to take another try at this and this time, I'm going to leave them together until they're all around L2/L3.

As for my current hatch, I am down to one T.sinensis... Milo. All the rest have died from improper molting with one that managed to jump onto my space heater and paralyze four of it's back legs with only its raptures working.. I just froze him and put him out of his misery.   Milo however is doing fantastic! He's an L5 now and has been molting nearly every week now! And I bet he'll be molting here soon as he's not eating and he's completely plump and his wing buds are starting to pop out more.. And as always the twitching is going on. Very brilliant fella though! It knows exactly when I'm going to feed him.. He's even been aggressive enough to snag a dead fruit fly that accidentally fell into his cage!

Good luck with your current hatches! If you're willing to sell some when they're older, definitely let me know!   I definitely wouldn't mind getting a hold of a female to mate with my male and get a couple eggs to leave in my yard next spring!


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## CosbyArt (Dec 15, 2016)

Sarah K said:


> Congrats on the hatch!





Kermit said:


> Cosby... What's in the cup? Sponge for humidity?
> 
> Congrats on the hatch


Thank you both.  

The 2oz cup originally held the ooth, and apparently was left behind after I transferred the ooth to the container, oops.  



Storm&amp;bugfreak said:


> @CosbyArt Congrats on the hatch! I just recently purchased an ooth online from a trusted site and should arrive at my house in the next day or two. I think it's winterized too! I'm definitely going to take another try at this and this time, I'm going to leave them together until they're all around L2/L3.
> 
> As for my current hatch, I am down to one T.sinensis... Milo. All the rest have died from improper molting with one that managed to jump onto my space heater and paralyze four of it's back legs with only its raptures working.. I just froze him and put him out of his misery.   Milo however is doing fantastic! He's an L5 now and has been molting nearly every week now! And I bet he'll be molting here soon as he's not eating and he's completely plump and his wing buds are starting to pop out more.. And as always the twitching is going on. Very brilliant fella though! It knows exactly when I'm going to feed him.. He's even been aggressive enough to snag a dead fruit fly that accidentally fell into his cage!
> 
> Good luck with your current hatches! If you're willing to sell some when they're older, definitely let me know!   I definitely wouldn't mind getting a hold of a female to mate with my male and get a couple eggs to leave in my yard next spring!


Thanks, and best of luck to you as well with your ooth.  

Sadly it happens sometimes, perhaps due to the extremely dry humidity due to the heaters, or just a batch of weak nymphs. Great to hear you have one survivor, and sounds like he was one to keep for a pet anyway.  

Sure, if I get some excess nymphs when they reach L3 or L4 I'll post a ad in the classifieds too, but your get first pick. If your male is that old now already I will not have a female of breeding age for your male though, sorry to say. Perhaps if you run a ad you will find him a date that way.


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## CosbyArt (Mar 2, 2018)

Lots of time and pets have come and gone since I started this thread, and few even made it here then. I thought it was a fitting place though to put my newest mantid pets that I have had in awhile.

A Carolina ooth (Stagmomantis carolina) I collected in my backyard January 8th decided to finally hatch earlier today, 54 days later. Being a local wild ooth I was amazed not a single parasitic wasp emerged either which happens too commonly here.

54 days is rather long as freezing temps started here October 29, 2017, which was 72 days before I collected the ooth so it had plenty of diapause. My wife Melinda thought it was a dud about a week ago, but with some captive Carolina ooths I had previously hatched 98 days later (no diapause) I was still waiting patiently. Although, 6-8 weeks is typically the hatch time frame for them and they are just shy of 8 weeks. Speaking of times the longest I've had was the last Brunner's mantis (Brunneria borealis) nymph that hatched 337 days after I got that ooth.

This ooth is a rather large one (likely the first, or very early ooth for the mother) and over 40 nymphs hatched out. I plan to get them housed individually in a week or so, and I'll do a count then and more photos. Still a favorite species of mine, and one I am know for due to their local population here.


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## Ocelotbren (Mar 3, 2018)

337 days, wow!  Your nymphs are very cute though.  I think I can even see one cleaning its antenna already in the second picture.


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## CosbyArt (Mar 3, 2018)

@Ocelotbren  The Brunneria borealis I read can hatch slowly up to two years, Yen_Saw's log shows his was 6 months (180 days). Trying to find the original time source though was unsuccessful, details for the species is vary sparse online besides some sellers.

I see that in the photo now, indeed one on the left side is cleaning it's antenna; A nice added bonus.


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## Mantis Lady (Mar 4, 2018)

Cute little mantis babies, but what are you going to do with so many mantids?


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## CosbyArt (Mar 4, 2018)

Little Mantis said:


> Cute little mantis babies, but what are you going to do with so many mantids?


Thanks, ha if one ooth scares me it is time for me to get out of the hobby though.  

I've hatched nine ooths at one time once, but typically do four ooths or so depending. I also kept about 80 adult mantids before, so numbers isn't a problem. I admit I am in no hurry to keep that many again though, it was a lot of work.

Sadly of course not all nymphs will survive to L2 from birthing defects, molting issues, etc. so the number is never what one see's from a hatch. Personally I plan to keep somewhere around a dozen nymphs, several have also been spoken for by other members, and the rest will be released outdoors where the ooth came from (in a few weeks depending on temps, as it is nearly spring here). The nymphs should be about the same age as my local population too as my area wild ooths will be hatching soon naturally.

Speaking of which if anyone has sent me a post or PM from my previous hatches and want some Carolina nymphs send me a new PM as I will likely have some nymphs left. I can never keep track who is wanting some, as I rarely post classified ads, because everyone sees my hatches and just asks.


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## CosbyArt (Mar 5, 2018)

Of course in feeding them their first Melanogaster FF I couldn't resist taking some photos too. Inspired by the photos of Piotr Naskrecki, I took several photos (like the one above) and hope to put something together of the instars of my Carolina nymphs to scale. A few other nymphs enjoying a meal are shown below.


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## Ocelotbren (Mar 5, 2018)

Cool picture, I look forward to seeing the whole series once they grow up.


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## Serle (Mar 5, 2018)

The first feedings are always a hoot. The little guys aren't sure weather to attack or run .


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## CosbyArt (Mar 5, 2018)

Ocelotbren said:


> Cool picture, I look forward to seeing the whole series once they grow up.


Thanks, and I do as well.  



Serle said:


> The first feedings are always a hoot. The little guys aren't sure weather to attack or run .


That it was, but most grabbed up a Mel as soon as one crawled by. Of course a few nymphs acted like they were under attack and ran, and a few even jumped off the lid to avoid them.


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