# infertile ootheca?



## beckyl92 (Jul 10, 2009)

my Rhombodera Basalis is laying an ootheca and has never mated. is it true that they can hatch out just females? (very few)

its her 3rd, the others i just threw away but recently i was thinking maybe its true they can hatch.

(sorry if its a stupid question)

the ootheca is twice the size of her 2nd. her first was massive.


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## revmdn (Jul 10, 2009)

I don't think that is one of the few species that can do that. But I would wait for a more informed response.


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## Cosmic (Jul 10, 2009)

Sorry Becky but it won't hatch


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## agent A (Jul 10, 2009)

Actually I had an infertile chinese mantis egg case and it hatched a good 40 nymphs.


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## beckyl92 (Jul 10, 2009)

agent A said:


> Actually I had an infertile chinese mantis egg case and it hatched a good 40 nymphs.


did they all turn out to be female?


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## Katnapper (Jul 10, 2009)

Rhombodera species reproduces sexually. There are only very few species that reproduce parthenogenically, Bruneria borealis being one. But it would be extremely, extremely unlikely for a species that normally only reproduces by sexual fertilization, like Rhombodera sp., to suddenly have an ooth hatch without the mother being fertilized by a male. It would likely be akin to a fluke miracle.  

So no, if your Rhombodera sp. mother mantis did not have any contact with a male of the same species, her ooths will be infertile and will definitely not hatch.

If Agent a's Chinese ootheca hatched, it was fertile. It had been laid by a mated female, even if he did not witness the mating when he had her.


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## beckyl92 (Jul 10, 2009)

Katnapper said:


> Rhombodera species reproduces sexually. There are only very few species that reproduce parthenogenically, Bruneria borealis being one. But it would be extremely, extremely unlikely for a species that normally only reproduces by sexual fertilization, like Rhombodera sp., to suddenly have an ooth hatch without the mother being fertilized by a male. It would likely be akin to a fluke miracle.  So no, if your Rhombodera sp. mother mantis did not have any contact with a male of the same species, her ooths will be infertile and will definitely not hatch.
> 
> If Agent a's Chinese ootheca hatched, it was fertile. It had been laid by a mated female, even if he did not witness the mating when he had her.


okay thanks  !


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## agent A (Jul 10, 2009)

Katnapper said:


> If Agent a's Chinese ootheca hatched, it was fertile. It had been laid by a mated female, even if he did not witness the mating when he had her.


she wasn't mated. she could fly when I caught her. she never mated and I know that!


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## Rick (Jul 10, 2009)

agent A said:


> Actually I had an infertile chinese mantis egg case and it hatched a good 40 nymphs.


No you didn't.

Becky, if she wasn't mated it won't hatch.


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## Katnapper (Jul 10, 2009)

agent A said:


> she wasn't mated. she could fly when I caught her. she never mated and I know that!


She had obviously mated before you caught her. Period.


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## idolomantis (Jul 10, 2009)

agent A said:


> she wasn't mated. she could fly when I caught her. she never mated and I know that!


infertile eggs don't hatch  and i never heard of phartenogenetism with tenodera's.

and on a smaller note, females don't fly.


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## Emile.Wilson (Jul 11, 2009)

agent A said:


> she wasn't mated. she could fly when I caught her. she never mated and I know that!


LOL! how can you know if shes not mated if you caught her?


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## Rick (Jul 11, 2009)

idol0mantis said:


> infertile eggs don't hatch  and i never heard of phartenogenetism with tenodera's.and on a smaller note, females don't fly.


More false info. Some can fly. I have found young adult female tenoderas that could fly before they put on any weight.


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## idolomantis (Jul 11, 2009)

Rick said:


> More false info. Some can fly. I have found young adult tenoderas that could fly before they put on any weight.


Okay, thanks for correcting me.


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## Rick (Jul 11, 2009)

idol0mantis said:


> Okay, thanks for correcting me.


  Only seen it twice in my entire life though.


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## agent A (Jul 12, 2009)

Rick said:


> More false info. Some can fly. I have found young adult female tenoderas that could fly before they put on any weight.


thank you. so she couldn't have been pregnant.


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## jameslongo (Jul 12, 2009)

agent A said:


> thank you. so she couldn't have been pregnant.


Penny hasn't dropped yet, eh? If you don't take of heed Katnapper's experienced words &amp; constantly question her every step of the way, by golly gosh you've incurable problems. Time to refer back to your apologetic topic, I think  

I've seen a female _Tenodera australasiae_ fly. She just hadn't produced enough eggs to burden her flight at the time, like Rick suggested. Olga &amp; I caught her in the wild. Unfortunately, she was never mated, which is quite uncommon for a wild female. So, chances are, Alex, your Chinese was fertile. What's even less likely is parthanogenesis (cloning) within this species (is that what you meant, Idolomantis?). I'll ship my severed right arm over to Connecticut &amp; have it delivered to you by a barber shop quartet if you find some hard-hitting evidence that your hatched ooth was begat by an infertile female. Dead serious :mellow:


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## idolomantis (Jul 12, 2009)

jameslongo said:


> Penny hasn't dropped yet, eh? If you don't take of heed Katnapper's experienced words &amp; constantly question her every step of the way, by golly gosh you've incurable problems. Time to refer back to your apologetic topic, I think  I've seen a female _Tenodera australasiae_ fly. She just hadn't produced enough eggs to burden her flight at the time, like Rick suggested. Olga &amp; I caught her in the wild. Unfortunately, she was never mated, which is quite uncommon for a wild female. So, chances are, Alex, your Chinese was fertile. What's even less likely is parthanogenesis (cloning) within this species (is that what you meant, Idolomantis?). I'll ship my severed right arm over to Connecticut &amp; have it delivered to you by a barber shop quartet if you find some hard-hitting evidence that your hatched ooth was begat by an infertile female. Dead serious :mellow:


Yep, parthenogenesis is fairly common under stick insects and some mantis spieces, this doesn't include tenodera.

snd LOL @ the severed arm part.

and agent a, if it's thin, it doesn't mean it ain't mated  

And you shouldn't question everyting we say.

now to make this clear:

Your female was mated. capiche?


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## Katnapper (Jul 12, 2009)

agent A said:


> she wasn't mated. she could fly when I caught her. she never mated and I know that!





Rick said:


> No you didn't.Becky, if she wasn't mated it won't hatch.


I keep having to come back to this. "No you didn't." I crack up every time!!!


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## bassist (Jul 12, 2009)

agent A said:


> she wasn't mated. she could fly when I caught her. she never mated and I know that!


So you monitored her entire life as an adult even prior to catching her?


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## agent A (Jul 14, 2009)

she maybe was mated, we'll never know. but it is possible fr infertile egg cases to hatch a few nymphs, but it's rare. I caught her when the males had died off in the wild.


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## idolomantis (Jul 14, 2009)

agent A said:


> she maybe was mated, we'll never know. but it is possible fr infertile egg cases to hatch a few nymphs, but it's rare. I caught her when the males had died off in the wild.


Please, you did not take my advice to read people's posts more carefully.

she was mated, it wouldn't of hatchet if she wasn't mated. we know that for sure. and when you cought her she could've mated a long time ago.


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## jameslongo (Jul 15, 2009)

agent A said:


> she maybe was mated, we'll never know.


Yes, she was &amp; yes, we do know as a matter of fact. Nymphs = fertile female in _Tenodera sp._



> but it is possible fr infertile egg cases to hatch a few nymphs, but it's rare.


Never never never in _Tenodera sp._ Where did you here about this claim?



> I caught her when the males had died off in the wild.


That is not justification for her alleged infertility. The male(s) mated with her &amp; died before you reached the destination. Females live longer than males anyway.


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## worldofmantis (Jul 15, 2009)

lol maybe all of the males mated with her in the wild and she ate them all thats why they are all dead. (joking btw )


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