Creobroter nebulosa
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Thanks Christian, i was told the C. gemmatus and C. pictipennis respectively. The Creobroter from Thailand is actually quite small, 3 cm. HOw do you tell C. elongatas from C. gemmatus?
They sure do but i throw in hundreds of flies each day to minimize cannibalism. It is also a big cage.
There are barely distinguishable. That's the problem. Maybe the Thailand ones are really gemmatus, I don't know (although elongatus are also from Thailand). I just hope to get enough specimens that I have a large series one day. Maybe this could help clean this genus up a bit. Without seeing the type specimens it's almost not possible to draw any conclusions anyway.
Ok. i just have a chance to read the same key attached earlier (sorry should have done that before asking duh!). it looks like the second one is C. elongata indeed. (See key #4, body larger than 30mm, adult male wing longer than 35mm sounds right!). For body shorter than 30mm and wing shorter than 35mm for male, with hind wing splitting into 3 parts?(what?!) for C. gemmatus. I will need to check it when i get home later.
Man... i have to say the key for Creobroter spp. is indeed complicated. I can only wish the wirtings be easier. But one thing for sure the second group is likely to be C. elongata as you mentioned Christian. As the pronotum is definitely brown, not green which according to you a "trade mark" for C. pictipennis.
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jameslongo
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Thankyou Christian & Yen,
very interesting info there. You've cleared up a lot of things.
Cheers,
James.
very interesting info there. You've cleared up a lot of things.
Cheers,
James.
:lol: :lol:
Ok, let's sum it up: the following morphs are actually in stock
C. elongatus, C. "nebulosa": differences as shown by Yen.
C. pictipennis: hindwings more like "nebulosa", pronotum more slender and always green, wings longer.
C. "gemmatus": smaller than elongatus, similar in appearance, but forecoxae of nymphs not red as in elongatus. Brown pronotum, but overall more "green" than elongatus. Species identity not confirmed so far.
The confusion arises from the fact that Creobroter is confusing. There is no aid at all if hobbyists start to name them by themselves. That's why there are elongatus stocks wrongly named "pictipennis", not talking about the gemmatus/elongatus problem.
Ok, let's sum it up: the following morphs are actually in stock
C. elongatus, C. "nebulosa": differences as shown by Yen.
C. pictipennis: hindwings more like "nebulosa", pronotum more slender and always green, wings longer.
C. "gemmatus": smaller than elongatus, similar in appearance, but forecoxae of nymphs not red as in elongatus. Brown pronotum, but overall more "green" than elongatus. Species identity not confirmed so far.
The confusion arises from the fact that Creobroter is confusing. There is no aid at all if hobbyists start to name them by themselves. That's why there are elongatus stocks wrongly named "pictipennis", not talking about the gemmatus/elongatus problem.
Morpheus uk
Well-known member
They all look pretty similar so why isnt there just one species in culture?
That would sure help in eliminating the problem of inbreeding <_<
That would sure help in eliminating the problem of inbreeding <_<
Thanks Christian. I am going to ask for the translation from some chinese scholars in TAMU entomology dept based on that key and see if that helps (or more confusing!)
The concern here is on intra-species breeding now that we have several different species. Currently i am flooded with Creobroter from inbreeding.
Do you mean inter-species breeding? That should not be a problem, as hybrids, if they should occur, are infertile.
@ Morpheus UK: because it's just boring to have one species per genus in culture. If this argument should apply, you can throw out all Mantinae species and continue to keep Sphodromantis lineola. The other ones are pretty much the same...
@ Morpheus UK: because it's just boring to have one species per genus in culture. If this argument should apply, you can throw out all Mantinae species and continue to keep Sphodromantis lineola. The other ones are pretty much the same...
Not a fact Im afraid, the same number of chromosomes is highly likely amongst species from the Creobroter genus which means non-mule fertile ofspring would be produced in the same way that the Pseudos have been hybridised. besides, its been done <_<
No, it hasn't. The chromosome number is not relevant. Two species would per definition produce infertile offspring. There are some exceptions, but not in mantids. Most fertile "hybrids" are just due to mis-IDs.
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
In fact, it's a lot easier! If you have a large enclosure (as Yen mentionbs above), it is much easier to put a container of flies or fruit flies in and just pop the lid! Much easier than measuring out ten fruit flies for one tiny nymph (oops! eight. Two got away!) or trying to feed twenty pots with forty house flies, two to a pot! The only hard part is to make sure that you have enough feeder insects, day after day!
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
In fact, it's a lot easier! If you have a large enclosure (as Yen mentionbs above), it is much easier to put a container of flies or fruit flies in and just pop the lid! Much easier than measuring out ten fruit flies for one tiny nymph (oops! eight. Two got away!) or trying to feed twenty pots with forty house flies, two to a pot! The only hard part is to make sure that you have enough feeder insects, day after day!
Yes,You are right
I mean that when You feed matis which are in separate enclosure it is easy to control are they all full and if they have enough flie.But when You have them in group it`s harder to check is there enough food for all of them and are they all full. Which dosen`t mean that keeping mantis in groups isn`t better (ofcourse it`s easier to have only one big enclosure then to have about twenty of them )
Best wishes,Wojtak
