Idolomantis Consolidated

Hey, all!

I'm going to (try to) post what I have from all my notes on Idolomantis diabolica. I hope we can put this towards a difinitive Idolomantis diabolica Caresheet. So much is opinion & reports... and debatable... and desperate for citations. Maybe we can yell it out here, add pictures and evidence and structure, and get this to a digestable form (or format) we can be proud to show.

Pound away at it, and collectively, maybe we'll get these critters firmly into culture in the US.

Good luck!

IDOLOMANTIS DIABOLICA CARE SHEET

There is a great deal of Idolomantis husbandry still being hotly debated.

This is an attempt to collect those opinions into a simplified, one-stop shop for those considering this challenging species.

ENCLOSURES:

Glass, plastic or cloth cages are still in debate, but metal mesh cages in later instars seems unadvisable, as the mantids cannot get a reliable grip. A modified Exo-terra's "Flexi" is preferred by several breeders. Lining a glass or screen cage with sticks or nylon webbing is also a viable option.

Edit: Fully screened enclosures should be avoided, unless a constant and reliable mist or drip system is in place. Humidity lower than 30% results in higher instances of mismolts.

Thin branches, or similar structures within the enclosure are CRITICAL for proper molting. Adults in particular, have a great deal of trouble making "the flip" to inflate the wings properly. A soft substrate to cushion any fall is also recommended.

"Precarious" suggests a modified "safety net" to aid in molting.

Proper ventilation and regular cleaning is always prudent. General rules of mantis husbandry apply.

TEMPERATURE:

80-90F, (or higher)

Maximum and minimum temperatures are still under debate. Some breeders, most notably Yen, recommend 90-100F by day, and 67-75F by night.

Christian sez: "Temperature IS an issue: our stock did well with 28-32° C (82°-90°F) on average by day, 18-22° (64°-72°F) at night. Lower temps were bad, higher temps were bad".

Some breeders have kept them MUCH hotter; 100-105F. other breeders reported success and temps of 80-85F (Angelofdeathzz) and 80-85f (Precarious).

It is uncertain whether higher heat has an beneficial effect on overall health.

Several breeders, including Yen, have noted that nymphs stop feeding at temperatures below 70F.

HUMIDITY:

50-60%

Advice on daily and weekly spraying is still under debate. With the exception of molting and mating, humidity above 60% may be irrelevant to overall health.

Christian sez: "60-80% RH by day and 70-100% RH for sub-adults"

FEEDING:

Flying Prey Preferred.

L1 and L2 can get by on large Fruit Flies (hydei) but prefer house flies. The more flutter, the better. L3 to adult prefer Blue Bottles, Moths, Bees and Wasp. If necessary, they have been known to take roaches, crickets, mealworms, grasshoppers, katydids. However, most breeders recommend sticking to flies, bees and wasps.

Edit: L1-L2 may do better on just Hydei, as House Flies and Blue Bottles tend to knock them off their perches, and generally stress them out.

Coating food items with pollen or other possible nutritional supplements is still under debate.

IDOLO TIMETABLE (in days)

Precarious Sporeworld

L1 to L2: 12 12

L2 to L3: 18 12

L3 to L4: 16 17

L4 to L5: 20 17

L5 to L6: 27-30 17-19

L6 to L7: ??? 20-39

L7 to L8: ??? ???

Expect between 97 - 120 days to reach adult after hatching

Females DO have an extra 8th molt.

Males live no more than about 3 months, several reports of less than a month.

Females can reportedly live as much as 6 months.

Females begin calling roughly 3-4 weeks after final molt.

Adults won't get their full colors for another 3 days after molting.

23-31 days between mating and 1st ooth

25 days between subsequent ooth production.

Expect from 3-6 ooths from each female.

Ooths hatch after incubating 51-54 days.

Typically, expect an average of 24 nymphs per ooth, with hatches as high as 50 reported from some breeders.

BREEDING NOTES

Several breeders recommend an increase in temperature, from 100-105F.

Breeders report various signs that a female is receptive, including "lift her wings slightly, and start pumping her abdomen" (Entomo-logic) and "goes ape by flipping the wing" (Yen).

101-105f seems to be the ideal breeding temp.

Removing the male from the female's enclosure for 1-3 days before mating, may help encourage breeding.

A strong argument has been made by "Entomo-logic" to introduce the MALE to the female's enclosure. However, this, the reverse, or even a neutral enclosure are all still under debate.

Other breeders, most notably "Gaupoalto40", recommend boosting the humidity to "tropical" during breeding.

Yen reports that day and night cycles seem to be important, as the adults tend to molt in darkness. He also noted that younger nymphs molted at first light.

Yen reported about 60% successful molting to adult.

(Blushes).

I'm waiting for the sparks to fly...

Round One: "To HEAT or NOT to Heat".

(Can't get the spacing to work on the Timetable. Have to approach that differently).

Temps 80-85°F. Humidity 60-70% daytime worked out fine for me. The humidity was a little hard to maintain in the daytime as the heat from the bulbs were constantly bringing it down. I was misting 2 times a day one around 12 afternoon and one in the evening about an hour before turning the lights out. Humidity levels varied between 70-80 at night, it wasn't exact but pretty close. I use a enclosed glass terrarium to help stablize the variables. The top has a screen mesh but that was covered with a piece of cardboard with a small hole, to fit a hockey puck halogen light. The light hood houses a repti glo 5.0 UVB bulb which covers the other half but allows air circulation. It worked but I was not always there to mist at the exact time so I'm investing in a ultrasonic humidifier which will be activated by a timer switch.

I like Precarious's safety net idea. Somebody else on this forum had a pretty good idea that I ended up using. The terrarium setups that I acquired have these natural looking styrofoam backgrounds. As soon as the mantid started to go through the final molt I selected branches and would poke them into the styrofoam as to create a ladder for the mantids to grab and flip.

Very spot on caresheet Bud! The only thing I would add that I've found to be VERY important is to have straw to pencil size branches mounted to the top of the lid horizontally close together(at least one per inch) running the length of the top, it's a little bit of work but I've had no falls from molting since I adopted this practice. Precarious and I have shared notes on theses guy's for almost a 3/4 of a year now and this one is a MUST if you want them to get to adult in one piece for Both of us. They stick to the real wood twigs(leave the bark on) so well when they molt you will have to almost use a chisel to get the shed skin off the twigs, falling seems to be a big problem for most people that try them, this will help clear that up...

Besides having a lot of humidity (60-90+%) when they molt anything else I would add is minor.

[Edit] I forgot to say, bake the branches in the oven at 175-190 for an hour or two to kill off any fugus or pesties and it will dry to wood up, but I try to start with dead branches.

Nick

That sort of confirms what I suspected. None of the skins from my Idolos stayed in place. Artificial, plastic plants and metal mesh didn't allow them to "dig in". They could only "hook around". Makes sense.

Anyone notice any feeding patterns? For instance, one large food item every other day? Something like that...?

Great idea about the horizontal twigs and one that is completely new to me. Idolomantis, generally imported from Europe, has been around for years in the US but Yen has been the only person here, that I know of, to breed them. He sold nymphs which no one apparently bred. This new push with a bunch of nymphs from captive bred parents and members already experienced in raising them, may be the break through we have needed and promote the new trend towards breeding mantids in large cages with heat, light and humidity that more closely simulate natural conditions.

Have at it!

Certainly appreciate all the contributions.

I think this is what I'm (currently) proposing for an ideal L2-l6 Idolomantis enclosure (below), noting that the last molt may require an isolated (no food, no neighbors) Molting Chamber (still looking for suggestions on that one). Certainly, others (Gurder comes to mind) have done without the need for such intensive care. But I'm over-compensating on this small population, until I have better numbers to work with. Also, the glass enclosures let me control humdity and temps much better.

A very, very big enclosure would be great (essentially a green house). Not an option for me at the moment.

Notes:

CLIMBING SURFACES

I still need to add the sticks to the top screen (as mentioned above), or similar gripping structure.

I've eliminated vertical climbing material to avoid awkward mismolts.

From L4-L6 I'll need to add the thin branches that seem to be so critical (not so much from L1-L3).

HUMIDITY

I have a Repti-Fogger prepared to fog it irregularly. Probably on a timer until I figure out the right settings.

I'm considering a "Big Dripper" as an alternative.

Might have a glass of plastic top to drape over at night, if needed.

HEAT

I have a ZooMed heat pad that I may use for night time temps (if needed).

I will experiment with na "Exo Terra Terrerarium Heater Cable" this weekend.

FEEDING

I've added 2 bung-ports (no idea what to call them) to the top for adding food.

Front doors slide open, or can be completely slid out. Holds in House Flies and larger, but FF's still get out (so not ideal for L1, as i still tend to top them of with Hydei).

SUBSTRATE

Currently using Carfresh Natural Pet Bedding. I can simply pour in huge amounts of water - it's crazy absorbant! Ideally, I can ShopVac out debris every other week, or hand clean, if needed.

Ideally, the bottom would be wide-screened, and i could just lift up the entire enclosure, and the debris woould fall through the cracks. Needs work.

Sporeworld:

L1's yes, L2 I do 1 a day or 2 every other. but as they go on in instars they eat more and more maybe x2 per instar or close to that (talking about flies only).

Phil:

Thanks, I've done it for a while now, I was thinking about something better than any mesh type for the grip to limit the fall but Precarious showed me this Idea long ago, so he gets the credit! I use Lilac branches(many sub branches) vertical and on the top to climb on and the combo works like a charm.

The pic above Is awesome looking but you would run a high risk of molting to low with all the stuff close to the bottom, can't have much on the bottom 8-10 inches or so of the tank, there not all to good at picking the best spot to molt

Here's a shot of my not all the way finished 24x18x18 (can't tell how big yours is, Looks big)Exo-Terra set up.

I like this terrarium's dimensions better than the tall ones I got. It has more realty space on top allowing the mantids more room to walk around if they're up top. What size is this one Nick?

60 x 45 x 45 cm / 24” x 18” x 18” (WxDxH)?

God bless lilacs!

If I'm imagining this right, the ideal molting cage would be a barrel made out of twigs. No vertical surfaces, gentle sloping curves, everything gripable. But nothing in the center to interfere with molting. Maybe stuff the bottom with a few inches of foam, or something to break the fall that they can't get tangled in...?

I want to use a bunch of your Idolo pics and cage ideas for references on this and the caresheet. If you're willing to bless their usage, send me a PM and I'll add you to this post. Not sure how permissions work if the pic is already posted elsewhere. Thanks!

Permissions:

Sporeworld (duh)

animalexplorer said:

I like this terrarium's dimensions better than the tall ones I got. It has more realty space on top allowing the mantids more room to walk around if they're up top. What size is this one Nick?

60 x 45 x 45 cm / 24" x 18" x 18" (WxDxH)?

Click to expand...

Yes this is a 24x18x18 you can pick one up at Joshsfrogs.com for a good price! (w/free shipping was my deal)

Thanks! I'll check them out.

I'm just reinforcing what everyone has mentioned. Space is a concern with the species, more so than we think. They are probably the least-nimble mantid I've ever kept, and this is a problem when combined with their territoriality and size. A greenhouse would be perfect, but that's just not in the cards for most of us.

I got 3 of Yen's L2 Idolos last summer/fall, one mismolted at ~L6 from a small patch of metal screen. It got completely out of its old skin then fell. As well all know, a teneral mantid isn't exactly iron man.

Learned my lesson and the others were successful. Great point on the real twigs, they worked wonders for me. I think bark would also be good as a background or a secondary layer behind a twig roof.

I don't see temps and humidity being very constrained with this species, I kept them bone dry and 80F and didn't have problems getting out of the skin for any of the 3. It did make sense to raise the humidity a great deal at subadult into adulthood. I've never seen variations in Idolo colors, so I assume this stark contrast in color corresponds to a stark contrast in living conditions.

BTW, are there any other species out there that have such a predictable coloration/dramatic change into adulthood?

Personally, I would like to hear from Henry on this post, as I feel he is every bit as good as me at raising and get this rare beauty to adult as me, plus his video is second to none !!!!

Not to knock any other post so far, but this guy know's more about mantis and photography than he lets on sometimes trust me on that

Good to see all of this data finally coming together!

All I would add is that humidity is likely especially important at the early instars since young nymphs can retain very little fluid in their bodies. I have watched many molts and it seems the body fluids they use to internally lube the process are more important than relative humidity. As they mature you may get away with less humidity so long as you give them a chance to drink daily (but I don't risk it).

Here is a photo of a female Ghost hours before adult molt and the fluids can be seen seeping from the pores on the raptor claws.



Smaller nymphs can't afford to lose this vital liquid to dry air, so to be extra safe keep them in high humidity.

Personally, I mist all my mantids daily, every species, and I see them all drink. It may be certain species can go without it when living in an environment lacking water, but they all will drink regularly if given the chance. Because of this I very rarely see a mantid stuck in a molt, and when I do it's a very young nymph.

I'm going to make a big post on the threat pose with close up video of the legs making the sound. Should get to that over the next few days. In the mean time here are a few photos.