pheromone

Will female adult continue releasing pheromone after successful mating? Or can this be an indication of successful mating or not? Advice or suggestion is highly appreciated.

Luke fom Taiwan

Hi

No, sorry. Continuing calling means not fertile.

Mated females stop calling and start it again after they have layed several ooths at a time when no more sperma is left.

This is the best indicator of course,

regards,

tier

tier said:

HiNo, sorry. Continuing calling means not fertile.

Mated females stop calling and start it again after they have layed several ooths at a time when no more sperma is left.

This is the best indicator of course,

regards,

tier

Click to expand...

Thanks Tier, you are a scholar and a gentleman. Now I understand why one or my Acromantis and Odotomantis behave strangely tonight. New question inspired from your answer. My Sybilla Pretiosa matured for almost too long, so as the male, but not actual mating was sighted and no pheromone releasing behavior has been observed. Something I can do about that? Sorry, my biolobical kowledge is rather primitive!

Luke

I have never actually "seen" a mantis release pheremones so I don't think that is a good indication of having been mated. However it is best to just ensure they have been mated by observing it yourself and it helps to remate them after they have laid a few ooths. They will mate over and over again regardless.

Hi

I do not think this is correct:

If you observe your female beeing mated by a male but you also observe her calling again the next evening, you better mate again immediately. Or you will have to wait for the first ooth very long. And yes, it won't be fertile, too.

Every species I've kept did the calling behaviour, for some species you need trained eyes to observe it.

regards,

tier

Rick said:

I have never actually "seen" a mantis release pheremones so I don't think that is a good indication of having been mated. However it is best to just ensure they have been mated by observing it yourself and it helps to remate them after they have laid a few ooths. They will mate over and over again regardless.

Click to expand...

Thanks Rick

This is commonly accept and what the book said.

tier said:

HiI do not think this is correct:

If you observe your female beeing mated by a male but you also observe her calling again the next evening, you better mate again immediately. Or you will have to wait for the first ooth very long. And yes, it won't be fertile, too.

Every species I've kept did the calling behaviour, for some species you need trained eyes to observe it.

regards,

tier

Click to expand...

Thanks Tier,

Make more senses when I see them moving tail up and down again next time after positive fertility.

Best regards,

Luke

I noticed it by several species too.

Here's a picture of a A.formosana female releasing pheromones

Pelle said:

I noticed it by several species too.Here's a picture of a A.formosana female releasing pheromones

Click to expand...

my idol male has started to do that?

tier said:

HiI do not think this is correct:

If you observe your female beeing mated by a male but you also observe her calling again the next evening, you better mate again immediately. Or you will have to wait for the first ooth very long. And yes, it won't be fertile, too.

Every species I've kept did the calling behaviour, for some species you need trained eyes to observe it.

regards,

tier

Click to expand...

Like I said. I have never seen a female "calling". If I observed a successful mating then she is good to go and the ooth will be fertile. I think most people do not observe this "calling" behavior and it will just confuse others if they're trying to watch for it to determine if their mantis will lay fertile ooths. I mate females once or twice before they lay their first ooth and everything works fine. Then I try and mate them after they have layed a few ooths but that even doesn't seem to be necessary.

I don't honestly believe in any such "calling". They do release pheremones but females can and will mate over and over again. I have observed it in captivity and in the wild.

tier said:

HiNo, sorry. Continuing calling means not fertile.

Mated females stop calling and start it again after they have layed several ooths at a time when no more sperma is left.

This is the best indicator of course,

regards,

tier

Click to expand...

tier said:

HiI do not think this is correct:

If you observe your female beeing mated by a male but you also observe her calling again the next evening, you better mate again immediately. Or you will have to wait for the first ooth very long. And yes, it won't be fertile, too.

Every species I've kept did the calling behaviour, for some species you need trained eyes to observe it.

regards,

tier

Click to expand...

I would love to read about this. Do you have any links to specific studies or works?

Rick said:

I think most people do not observe this "calling" behavior and it will just confuse others if they're trying to watch for it to determine if their mantis will lay fertile ooths.

Click to expand...

I definitely agree with this.

Hi

Like I said. I have never seen a female "calling". If I observed a successful mating then she is good to go and the ooth will be fertile. I think most people do not observe this "calling" behavior and it will just confuse others if they're trying to watch for it to determine if their mantis will lay fertile ooths. I mate females once or twice before they lay their first ooth and everything works fine. Then I try and mate them after they have layed a few ooths but that even doesn't seem to be necessary. I don't honestly believe in any such "calling". They do release pheremones but females can and will mate over and over again. I have observed it in captivity and in the wild.

Click to expand...

@ joossa and rick:

i agree with the whole text.

But: I always see them calling

Other people will be confused. Yes. Some will even ask if their males do it, too fisherman brazil will know what he has to do

Calling females are not fertile, not depending on how many times they were mated "correctly". Mating which looks correct do not have to be correct. Some males are just infertile, for example

Waht is completely correct is that males do not care about calling but will mate any time as often as they are able to. You know: Some of my males try to mate other males, for example

Of course there is scientific literature on it, but it is expensive

regards

tier said:

Hi@ joossa and rick:

i agree with the whole text.

But: I always see them calling

Other people will be confused. Yes. Some will even ask if their males do it, too fisherman brazil will know what he has to do

Calling females are not fertile, not depending on how many times they were mated "correctly". Mating which looks correct do not have to be correct. Some males are just infertile, for example

Waht is completely correct is that males do not care about calling but will mate any time as often as they are able to. You know: Some of my males try to mate other males, for example

Of course there is scientific literature on it, but it is expensive

regards

Click to expand...

so u where saying when a female is calling like in that pic with her abdermen down if a male does that it means nothing?wonder why he does that then?mayby it feals good :lol:

The behavior you described in the pics I have observed before. However I thought it was the female "testing" an area for egg laying because it always happened right before laying an ooth. I only see this every now and then. I do not believe it to be her releasing pheremones. I am no expert but I have observed mantids since I was old enough to walk and I am pretty sure that behavior occurs before egg laying.

Hi

It is a little different than the behaviour before laying an ooth: Before laying an ooth, the female is testing the surface, yes, right. The abdomen will move quickly testing the surface.

While "calling" the abdomen is not moving, but just bended. And it is not touching the surface, but free in the air.

regards

Rick said:

The behavior you described in the pics I have observed before. However I thought it was the female "testing" an area for egg laying because it always happened right before laying an ooth. I only see this every now and then. I do not believe it to be her releasing pheremones. I am no expert but I have observed mantids since I was old enough to walk and I am pretty sure that behavior occurs before egg laying.

Click to expand...

It is the females way of exposing the pheromone releasing glands on the dorsal aspect of the abdomen. Air flows over the glands (this is why the wings are elevated) and disperses the pheromones.

Tier is right

To make a long story short: you are all right and all wrong.

First of all, females are receptive before they release pheromones. So they may copulate before showing the typical behavior. It usually needs a certain time threshold without having been copulated before the pheromone releasing posture is exhibited. For example, M. religiosa females need about two weeks to be receptive but four until the calling behavior is shown. The calling behavior ist best seen in Acanthops and Tarachodes. The glands are rather large and protruding in these genera. But all other (higher?) mantids show the calling behavior.

Secondly: the calling gehavior is shown usually by night in most species, at dawn in Acanthops and in the evening in Tarachodes. If the female isn't fertilized soon, it is eventually shown by day.

Third: the calling behavior is started again some time after the first ooth, if the females was fertilized. It is important to know that the calling behavior is shown even if the female has still enough sperm. Some females may fertilize all their ooths in their lifetime and still show the calling behavior.

Fourth: if the calling behavior is restarted directly after mating, the female isn't fertilized. There has to be some weeks until it starts again.

Fifth: older females are often ignored by the males despite of calling behavior, depending on species. Deroplatys are "famous" in this respect.

As usual, nothing is simple in nature...

:blink: So...was Rick right about the "testing" part, because I've seen my I. oratoria do that to a stick once, and I waited all night for her to do it (even fell asleep by her). And when I woke up, there was a nice ooth in the exact same spot she was "testing".

(I guess this means my fear of having my hand "layed on" is over) :lol:

This has nothing to do with pheromone release.

I can honestly say I have never, ever seen a mantis do that. Will try to witness it myself. I still don't think this is a reliable way for a hobbyists to know if the female is fertile or not as was mentioned.