Beginner mantids

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user 8688

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Hey, all. I've been lurking in the forums for a couple days now trying to absorb everything I can, but I have still have some questions. These seem like obvious questions to me, but I went back several months and found no clear answers.

I've seen a few people state that certain mantises are not for beginners. Why not? What are the challenges that come with keeping orchids and idolos that don't occur with other species? I'm calling out these two because they seem to be the most popular, for obvious reasons. The orchid care sheet doesn't seem like it's asking a lot. I'm caring for a tropical snake with similar environment needs, so humidity and temperature are doable. Does "intermediate care" just mean that it needs daily attention? Or does it refer to the habitat requirements? Or to the food? Or something else?

My second question is a lot simpler. What are some good beginner mantids that aren't listed on the care sheet forum? It hasn't been my only source, but I doubt that any list I'll find would be exhaustive. I'm just curious to know if there are some common beginner species that any of you might suggest that aren't mentioned there. The ghost mantis, African mantis, and flower mantis seem like the top three.

And one more for the road. Is there any other beginning advice that you would give to a new hobbyist?

Thanks a million.

 
Alright I'll take a crack at this, I have a mantid book in front of me, websites, and my experience so far to respond with. I have responded with links to sources of the information, as merely saying it is that way doesn't provide any proof; however, as many pages can be long you will have to do a search on the page (usually CTRL F to find it). Of course if you have a large bankroll and don't care to possibly kill the mantids in a attempt to raise them, feel free to do so no one can stop you. Seems many lately will want to try the advanced species first so it will add another notch on their belt as the mantid was advanced care. ;) I personally prefer to avoid such mantids even now as I do not find the extra care and requirements are worth my time and effort when so many other wonderful species are available.

Mantids are listed by species as beginners, intermediate, advanced, or even expert care required. This is based from the mantids required temperatures, humidity levels, choices of feeders, habitat requirements, ventilation needed, their ease of molting, if the mantid is a hardy species or delicate, difficulty in breeding, and possibly other related factors specific to a species - such as sensitivity to changes/fluctuation of humidity or temperatures can harm/kill them, require certain feeders, and much more but rarely come up unless encountered (and more advanced species even less so as less keepers have them).

One quick thing is that mantid keepers with much experience with a particular advanced species will continue to have some trouble with a particular species. It's not to say that they are not providing the proper care and learning from mistakes, it is simply a fact that some mantids are that difficult and delicate/fragile (with many unknown out of their control).

Taking a look at temperatures, the beginner species can be kept at ideal temps in the 72-78 degree Fahrenheit range. Species such Miomantis paykullii want the temperature in the 75-85 F range. Orchids (Hymenopus coronatus) should be kept in the 77-95 F range, with 82 F being best during the day - at night 64 F or more. Wandering violin mantis (Gongylus gongylodes) need a basking spot in their habitat of 95-100 F range, with the rest of their habitat much cooler so they do not overheat. The Idolomantis diabolica want near 100 F during the day, and about 68 F at night. A 10-15 F drop in temperatures at night is good for the majority of mantids as it more closely simulates nature, and helps them mature and especially in breeding - as many require very specific temperatures for breeding to occur. Something to point out is that a breeze from a open window or even a breifly opened door can change the temperature to a "extreme" amount that a more advanced species may not be able to cope with it.

Looking at humidity requirements beginner species tend to hover around 55% RH. Which is typical in most houses or close enough, until winter and heating is used. Steam humidifiers are preferred choice to raise humidity from the winter 5-10% RH back to near 50% RH, or more as needed. Orchids (Hymenopus coronatus) need 60-80% RH, and are sensitive to changes in it. The Idolomantis diabolica requires "high air humidity" with misting in the evening hours.

Ventilation beyond a open covered mesh top for beginner species becomes a concern at the intermediate level species and up. Miomantis paykullii who are over-misted can develop bacterial problems, which is also a concern for all species really. Habitats can become a breeding ground for mold/fungus/bacteria growth and is one contributor to unknown mantid deaths - which is due to high humidity and inadequate ventilation. Orchids (Hymenopus coronatus) are said to do better in a all mesh net container to provide better ventilation. In that regard though the 60-80% RH levels will be more difficult to control. Idolomantis diabolica require cross-ventilation (multiple ventilation areas around the habitat, the side and top, or even a mesh or all net habitat) otherwise they can fall over dead from suffocation.

Some mantids require even certain feeders, otherwise some will starve to death. Most beginner species will happily eat both crawling and flying insects (crickets, cockroaches, GB/BB flies, moths, etc.) so it is not a concern for them. Orchids (Hymenopus coronatus) are fed a diet of houseflies and BB flies, with the occasional wild butterfly and hover flies caught to supplement their diet. Wandering violin mantis (Gongylus gongylodes) eat flying prey only as well, and in-particular are best fed primarily moths. Idolomantis diabolica can eat many various types of prey - however they are best fed only flies as other prey can be harmful to them. Also this species must eat every day, if it goes more than 2 days without food it will die. There are many mantid species that are documented on the forum that have gone one or even two weeks without care or feed - that should speak volumes of their care. In that regard raising cultures of various feeders is not only recommended, it is almost required to give the mantid proper care (and you are sure of the feeders diet and health, as this can lead to mantid deaths too).

Next is the vain of keeping mantids, molting issues, as even under the best care and conditions it can occur (seemly it is the last molt to adulthood that is the hardest to take). Typically the beginner species will have low mis-molts (molting issues) under many circumstances. The Orchid (Hymenopus coronatus) nymphs however require it on the drier side of their humidity to properly molt, with adults on the wetter side. Wandering violin mantis (Gongylus gongylodes) need higher than normal humidity levels as they prepare to molt, so they have to be watched carefully to figure out when this is to occur. Idolomantis diabolica, feeder in their habitats before/during a molt, "will greatly disturb this skittish mantis and will disrupt correct molting." This is true for all mantids in some regard, as feeders such as crickets can eat helpless molting mantids. It goes on to say this about Idolomantis, "This species is one of the hardest species to keep, many times molt or unknown reasons will cause all Idolomantis nymphs to die before adulthood."

I'll just make a quick note on habitats/decorations. Nymph mantids of any species are best to be kept in a near empty habitat, in regard to any decoration, with a stick (if you have to have it) nearly straight vertically to help prevent any mis-molts. The more advanced species require lots of mesh and stick material properly placed for the best chances of successful molts. For example the Wandering violin mantis (Gongylus gongylodes) and Idolomantis diabolica need habitats that look more like a carefully crafted stick box by a bird more than a mantid habitat.

There are many other points and things to consider as well. I will leave that up to you to continue searching for yourself, and some details may have to be asked directly to veteran mantid keepers and breeders of the species in question - especially if you decide to keep a advanced mantid.

I've found on this page, they list Orchids (Hymenopus coronatus) as the, "epitome of every beginner's collection"; however, from the care information I've found and those who have kept the species, they are typically not recommended for beginners. Perhaps the author of the statement is saying after all the other beginner species a keeper has kept, the Orchid is the last one before for the more advanced care species.

There are many other guides and details on the forum itself, books by Orin (it is recommended you buy his more advanced mantid book and read it before even deciding to consider keeping a advanced or expert care mantid), and online as well.

Keep in mind if you are unable to find your mantid proper feeders, buy them, your feeder cultures crash, or shipping gets delayed - the advanced species will not survive, with Idolo going only 2 days without. This is one simple thing that keeps me from wanting to bother with such a species, let alone all the other specific requirements. Sure a individual may make it another day or two beyond that time frame without food; however it is likely to have done harm that it will not fully recover from.

You can usually quickly tell how difficult a mantid species is purely by price, as the more advanced mantids are hard to breed in any numbers and kept by so few. Sure supply/demand (with beauty falling into demand) play a role too, but if you are seeing a species that is $15 or under that is a good indicator that it is a easy/easier species to keep. Prices in the $25-$40 range are usually the more intermediate species, and anything more is the expert species.

Here's a except from a mantid book I own on which are good beginners species (with duplicates removed...)

The Sphodromantis species are very popular and readily available in the pet trade. These include: African mantis, Giant African mantises, African lined mantis, Congo Green mantis, Common Green mantis.

Large numbers of various Hierodula species from Asia are available, as are the Rhombodera species that are typically named the Shield, Hood, and Leaf mantis. The Ghost mantid and Flower mantid species are also excellent for "newbies".
Also when shopping from online store like BugsInCyberspace.com, MantisPets.com, and MantisPlace.com - mantids listed for sale usually state the keepers experience level recommended for their care. So you can find out if the available mantids are in the proper care level - with many mantids passing in and out of availability it is hard to keep a current or set list.

 
Thanks! I've tried an Idolo when I just started, got her really young. She got all the way to l4, but the week she was due to get ready to molt a weird lump appeared on the side of her head. She just stopped functioning and died within a day of the lump appearing.

 
Thanks! I've tried an Idolo when I just started, got her really young. She got all the way to l4, but the week she was due to get ready to molt a weird lump appeared on the side of her head. She just stopped functioning and died within a day of the lump appearing.
Your welcome, not sure what it helps but there is a lot of things there. ;)

Sorry to hear you lost her. That is indeed a weird way for it to happen - I have no idea what the lump could be really (as most things mantids related), but a guess would be a infection.

 
Perhaps next time I'll try an Idolo after raising some orchids and gongys. They're such a delicate species, it's amazing to think they're apex predators in the bug world. =)

 
There are many good species for beginners, and some who have difficulty with one species might talk to someone else who has no issues. I dont really spray my mantids much at all (besides a drink every once in a while) my room has the perfect humidity for molting, I dont have many feeder troubles, but I will occasionally have a mantis die for no apparent reason. It happens to all species. Another excellent beginner species is the griffin mantis. Larger in size and very nice colors makes them nice to look at, they eat anything and have no issues whatsoever it seems.

 
There are many good species for beginners, and some who have difficulty with one species might talk to someone else who has no issues. I dont really spray my mantids much at all (besides a drink every once in a while) my room has the perfect humidity for molting, I dont have many feeder troubles, but I will occasionally have a mantis die for no apparent reason. It happens to all species. Another excellent beginner species is the griffin mantis. Larger in size and very nice colors makes them nice to look at, they eat anything and have no issues whatsoever it seems.
Indeed Griffins seem to do quite well. One of my males started to get old and fell apart before he died, he did try to keep going though. I would agree that the Griffin (Polyspilota griffinii) and I'll add the Double shield mantids (Pnigomantis medioconstricta) too. Both are a hardy species with minimal care requirements (room temperature 72-80 F and humidity of 50-60% area).

 
I used to raise Chinese from ooths, I would go out during spring when the mosquitoes were out, let them bite me and nab them, eat baby got a mosquito almost every day.

 
There are two main points to why some mantises aren't listed as being good for beginners. First off, these species tend to cost more, which can make it more discouraging to someone just starting out if they suffer losses. Second, some species are less hardy than others and more tempermental when it comes to needing the right set up. Idolos particularly got a bad rap because when they were first brought over, even many experienced keepers were having problems with them dropping in the last couple instars before reaching adulthood.

That being said, I feel more species than not can make perfectly fine beginner mantises. One of my personal favorites is the Tenodera sinensis (Chinese mantis). Ironically, a lot of keeprs don't seem to like this one as a beginner mantis because they claim a higher fatality rate. I haven't really experienced that myself though. One of the big things I love about this species is their temperment. They are a very active, engaging species. I always assume a lot of people first getting started will be interested in handling their mantis some, and this is a great species for that.

 
Thank you all! CosbyArt, thank you so much, that information was just what I was looking for. Keeping the Praying Mantis is already on my shopping list. The more I read, the more I'm starting to aspire to keeping an Idolo somewhere down the line. Of course I'll start with basic species to get a feel for what's normal. There are some griffins for sale in the thread here, so I think that might be the one!

 
Thank you all! CosbyArt, thank you so much, that information was just what I was looking for. Keeping the Praying Mantis is already on my shopping list. The more I read, the more I'm starting to aspire to keeping an Idolo somewhere down the line. Of course I'll start with basic species to get a feel for what's normal. There are some griffins for sale in the thread here, so I think that might be the one!
Your welcome, and the book will likely do more good than anything else. ;) The Griffins are a good species, I've had 4 myself (2 traded off as nymphs and raised two to adults with no issues), and hatched a ooth and have little tiny ones running around now. :D

I tried to find a caresheet for the Griffin but one doesn't exist, best I could find was this. As mentioned though kept at room temperatures of 72-80F and humidity in the 50-60% your be fine, they also will eat anything that crawls or flies. They are a big mantid though in size with females nearing 5" they say, I've only had male adults that are about 3 1/2".

 
Your welcome, and the book will likely do more good than anything else. ;) The Griffins are a good species, I've had 4 myself (2 traded off as nymphs and raised two to adults with no issues), and hatched a ooth and have little tiny ones running around now. :D

I tried to find a caresheet for the Griffin but one doesn't exist, best I could find was this. As mentioned though kept at room temperatures of 72-80F and humidity in the 50-60% your be fine, they also will eat anything that crawls or flies. They are a big mantid though in size with females nearing 5" they say, I've only had male adults that are about 3 1/2".
I have been looking all day for a published care sheet on the Polyspilota griffinii, nothing. I had read about them in an insect guide I have here, but the information on humidity was not available. Thank you for listing the additional requirements. I did order the books mentioned on Amazon today.
 
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They never reach 5" stupid Wikepedia, I wanted to edit but I sadly cannot source it from anything other than my own hobby. Females reach about the same length as males. As for care they are tough as nails. I kept mine about 75 degrees and fed often. Mist once every few days for a drink.

 
I have been looking all day for a published care sheet on the Polyspilota griffinii, nothing. I had read about them in an insect guide I have here, but the information on humidity was not available. Thank you for listing the additional requirements. I did order the books mentioned on Amazon today.
Yeah, I guess it does so well with about any typical mantid care no one has bothered to do a caresheet - in that regard there are many species that are missing too. Your welcome, and the books will likely do better than anything found online. If for nothing else being able to reference it when needed without having to do a lot of searching online makes it a worthwhile purchase. :D

They never reach 5" stupid Wikepedia, I wanted to edit but I sadly cannot source it from anything other than my own hobby. Females reach about the same length as males. As for care they are tough as nails. I kept mine about 75 degrees and fed often. Mist once every few days for a drink.
I saw the size there, but others reference it to on forums and when for sale (like it's the truth) so it seems to percolate though the hobby. I've edited some Wikipedia pages before, but typically someone goes back and removes any photos or information quickly (a few weeks at most) so I quit wasting all my time learning how to do it. It isn't worth the effort, and I just avoid the site.

For sources you can add something to a blog or perhaps even here, and make a reference to it - as I've seen many references to much worse links than that. ;)

My remaining male is the same, seems he isn't picky about anything, although he loves flying prey more as a adult. He occasionally loves to amuse himself by smacking his habitat walls at other mantid neighbors, no matter their size. :D

 
Really doing a lot of homework on Griffins here. I think, for the sake of easing back into this as a hobby, taking on a male and female pair of these would be ideal for me, :) so i'm definitely in the market for purchasing a couple of nymphs. Thank you for all the info here! This is great stuff!

Someone really does need to make a care sheet for Griffins, even though the link mentioned does have a ton of great information!

 
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