Camelomantis slowly recovering but eye swelling getting worse

[Predatorhousepet]

I have a Camelomantis adult female about 4 weeks into adulthood who I found on her back, legs up at the bottom of her terrarium 2 days ago. She was still alive but very very weak. I had been worried about her previously because she didn't seem to have much of an appetite and only half heartedly swiped at her flies. I had gotten her to eat a few bites of a fly I hand fed her the day before but it wasn't much. I also noticed the black part of both of her eyes, the pseudopupil, bulging out so she's probably blind on top of this. I thought for sure she would be dead within hours, usually finding them like that is means it's inevitable. I tried to hand feed her a fly and she seemed slightly interested but didn't have the energy to take it from me so I tried mushing it up but she still wouldn't eat it. I offered her some water and she took a few sips so that was encouraging. I made her a watery slurry in a spoon using Repashy bug burger (I usually feed it to crickets and dubias) and she seemed to really like that, she ate a good portion of it then sat back. Later that day I checked on her and she was still on the floor of her terrarium where I left her but sitting upright and looking a bit more alive than before. Yesterday I fed her some more of the slurry and she ate a bigger portion of it. This morning I found her clinging to the glass front doors of her terrarium, I was amazed she had the energy to climb up there and hold on to only glass....a definite improvement. She's still really clumsy and falls easily but she's noticeably more perky today than yesterday. Her pseudopupils are still bulging, the left more so than the right, I'm thinking she possibly damaged them during one of her falls.

Has anyone else ever fed their mantis Repashy bug burger, it was a last ditch type of idea but I figured since it was packed with vitamins & nutrients it was maybe a better choice for a meal than honey which is straight sugar.

Also wondering if anyone else has seen pseuodopupils bulge out? I've noticed changes in size of the pseudopupil in other mantises but it always remained flat. This is different, they look like black bubbles sitting on top of her eyes.

 

[hysteresis]

I had one mega that got a black eye. Looked like corruption. Went through a molt with no change. Mismolted the 2nd time, unable to get her head out of the exuvia. 

Slow spiral. 

Also, ive seen this happen twice:

Sick mantis. Hand feed and water. Makes a slight recovery after a few days and I let it climb and even perch inverted. Seems the inversion costs the poor thing and it fails the next day. 

 

[Predatorhousepet]

I took some pics but imgur is acting up again and won't let me upload, I'll try to find another image hosting service.

The left eye has a large black bulge while the right one has a less noticeable bulge but both of her eyes look misshapen, bruised, purple and swollen. I very much doubt she can see. She's already an adult so recovery by molting won't happen.

She hasn't tried to hang inverted yet, just on the side of the glass. I was suprised to see she was even able to do that. She still won't accept flies but happily eats the bug burger slurry out of the spoon on her own without my help or encouragement. I put the spoon down in front of her and she bends her head and torso down to grab a bite then lifts her head while eating it which I see as a good sign because the first day she couldn't lift her head at all. I'm remaining optimistic for her recovery but also pragmatic enough to know that once they fall sick they don't usually make it. I've seen it too many times myself. I just don't have any experience with eye problems, first time for everything. It looks pretty awful when you compare her to her healthy sister and how her eyes are supposed to look.

 

[Predatorhousepet]

Different angle, eating bug burger slurry

Her healthy sister of the same age.

 

[hysteresis]

At some level, Mantodean medicine has to exist.

I need to be alien abducted and get in tight with my aliens. They'll teach me.  unk:

It's amazing how powerless I feel when one dies idiopathically.

Sounds promising, though! Good fortunes!

 

[hysteresis]

Oyyy just saw the pics. That's awful!

I dont know what that is. Both eyes, hey? Maybe severe enough eye rubbing that a complete breach occurred in both eyes?

 

[hysteresis]

Mine had darkness in one eye, and not the whole surface. Just  part of the surface was corrupted.

Funny observation: He walked like a drunk, leaning to one side when the corruption spread.

As if his vision helped him balance.

 

[Predatorhousepet]

Yeah, I have no idea either. Never seen anything quite like that before, maybe some sort of extreme mantis glaucoma?

It came on suddenly though so I was leaning more toward injury or infection.

Mantids are highly visual so it would make sense for them to depend on vision to balance and navigate. Right now she's wandering around on the floor of her terrarium kinda aimlessly and a little drunk looking, yes. She seems to locate the bug burger slurry by scent as far as I can tell.

 

[Mantis Lady]

That looks very bad. :blink: I think she can't see anymore with those black spots. How is she doing now?

 

[Predatorhousepet]

She's still hanging in there. She's able to cling sideways on the glass & branches but has not tried to hang inverted as far as I can tell. I still can't get her to accept any insects but she seems to be doing well enough on the bug burger slurry, she eats a good amount of it every day and seems to enjoy eating it. Her eyes haven't changed shape or coloring much since the pics, they still look awful but at least they don't seem to be getting too much worse. The black part that was bulging out seems to have retracted a bit, it isn't as puffy as it was the day before. I have no idea if that's good or bad.

She was in an identical type of setup and diet as her sister when this began, exclusively fed bluebottle flies the last few weeks. The only previous sign anything was wrong was a loss of appetite the day before. Like her sister they were both pretty chill, no pressing up against the glass or excessive climbing around. Camelomantis aren't terribly aggressive feeders in my experience, more of a sit & wait kind of hunter. 

I definitely think she's completely blind because of the way she crawls around, stopping and starting while kind of feeling around with her arms & feet to navigate. I feel bad for her because mantids are extremely visual, losing her sight can't be easy on her. Perhaps that's why she won't eat insects, she can't see movement so doesn't think they are food. Maybe the bug burger stuff tastes or smells really good to her, idk...my crickets and dubias always go straight for it and will often finish it off before starting to eat the other types of food given at the same time. 

I'll try to post updates if anything changes but right now her recovery seems to have plateaued, she's stable for now I think. Hopefully, she stays that way but I am aware she could take a turn for the worse at any time.

 

[Predatorhousepet]

The pics seem to be acting up, sometimes showing up, sometimes broken so here are the clickable URLs:

Front view

https://www.image-story.com/images/s_2/d8b42aba0900347a3fac_3.jpg

Top.view, eating bug burger slurry

https://www.image-story.com/images/s_2/d8b42aba0900347a3fac_4.jpg

This is her healthy sister, what her eyes should look like:

https://www.image-story.com/images/s_2/d8b42aba0900347a3fac_1.jpg

 

[Predatorhousepet]

She's still acting about the same and she still has a very healthy appetite but her eyes are noticeably more swollen than they were this morning. The black part of her right eye looks especially bad, bulging out even more than it was in the first pic. I'm wondering if the swelling goes down during the night (maybe when she's hanging sideways?) then it gradually swells back up throughout the day while she's upright...kind of like how my feet get really swollen by the end of the day.

https://www.image-story.com/images/s_2/7ff9bdc7c6603c14a08e_2.jpg

 

[hysteresis]

Can't be good.

 

[Predatorhousepet]

As you can see from that last pic there's what looks like a purple ulcer on the back of her right eye. Today I got a better look at it, and tried to take a pic but the angle was a bit awkward so it didn't come out as clear as I would have liked.

I noticed that the purple of the left eye has swelled up more since yesterday. The black part doesn't bulge out as much but it's now like a blown up balloon where the whole eye surface is being stretched out flat. The pressure in there is probably causing her pain. It's hard to know.

She's still alive and continues to eat really well but her quality of life isn't so great any more. She sits upright on the floor of her terrarium all day waiting until I feed her. After she eats she perks up a bit and crawls around for a few minutes before settling back down to sit on the floor. She has stopped trying to climb on the walls & branches.

I'm starting to wonder if I should euthanize her because even if she lives, she'll be blind from permanent damage and I have no idea how much pain this is causing her. The main reason I hadn't put her down yet was because I wanted to give her a chance but also to document everything happening to her in the event something like this happens to another mantis. However, I have to weigh her comfort and quality of life against that and I'm starting to think it would be kindest choice at this point. What would you do in this situation?

 

[hysteresis]

Its real easy to ask, even easier to answer. But only you can really say. 

One eye, idve done as you are doing.

Both eyes, id have let her go. 

 

[Predatorhousepet]

Thank you. It's always hard to know when to euthanize a mantis that persists in staying alive but in her case I think letting her eyes continue to worsen would not be the best course of action. Since it looks like she has irreversible widespread damage to both eyes she has no chance of regaining even a small portion of her sight, a poor outcome even if she lives. To a mantis sight is everything so I'll put her to rest when I get home this evening.

 

[hysteresis]

I've read that eye damage does not regenerate in subsequent molts. 

Im sorry.

 

[Mantis Lady]

Poor girl.  Sorry for your loss.

Stil wondering what she had with her eyes. An infection?

 

[Predatorhousepet]

I didn't end up putting her down, I was going to but changed my mind last minute. I was feeding her a last meal and noticed she anticipated the spoon coming towards her, she grabbed onto it before excitedly dunking her head in to eat...so she was able to identify the spoon well enough to know what it was. I reasoned she had to have some vision still then I remembered that mantids have 5 eyes, the two big compound eyes for detail and depth perception and 3 simple eyes in the middle of the forehead for light detection. The 3 simple eyes are unaffected so she can distinguish light at the very least.

The swelling in her right eye eventually went down and now some of the green color around the pseudopupil has returned so she may have limited vision out of that eye, hard to tell. The left one is still completely dark purple and has some swelling but it's not as bad as it was. She still eats the bug burger slurry every day and has a good appetite, she hooks her raptoral arms over the edge of the spoon, grabbing onto it. I tried offering a fly a few times but she still won't take a bite. She mostly sits on the ground still which worried me but she resumed hanging sideways after I placed a large flat piece of bark vertically in her terrarium. She always stays very low to the ground though, maybe she's trying to avoid falling again? She's never tried hanging inverted from the ceiling since this started but she has the ability to climb surfaces if she wishes, I have seen her hanging on the glass sideways. I'll try to take some pictures if her eyes later.