Can you help me breed my Tenodera angustipennis?

[MantidBro]

Morta and Gor-Tok have been adults for a bit, now. For the past two weeks I've been trying to mate them, but to no success. Even when Morta (male) gets on top of Gor-Tok, he flips around so he's backwards and puts his face near her reproductive organs and his antennae go crazy as he tries to mate with her face. He keeps doing it. Gor-Tok's grabbed onto him 3 separate times and I was able to save him each time as I keep a close eye on them when they're together. (She did end clawing him in the eye and it's black now, but he can still see out of his other eye. Feeding Gor-Tok doesn't really help to keep her distracted from Morta, she just ends up dropping it in fright once she feels him unfortunately.)I just hope they'll mate already, I'm worried that Morta will lose a leg or another eye and won't be able to mate at all.

I'm wondering if it's usually this hard to breed mantids? How long can it take to breed them? More than 2 weeks, trying once a night? I keep them together for hours at a time, too, and Morta has indeed tried doing the deed but to no success as I said because he doesn't do it right, as if he doesn't know where to put his reproductive organs. It's like he's too distracted by the smell she's emitting.

I realized that he tends to jump and grab onto her easier when they're upside down so I've been doing that the past week and still it hasn't happened.

Here's some photos of Morta becoming stimulated by Gor-Tok:

(He moves his abdomen from side to side, side to side. I'm not sure if he's trying to stimulate her in return or if he's just stimulated, himself, and brushing his hook against the wings as a mating proxy).

(You can see the hook.)

And here's a video of it on YouTube:

 

[happy1892]

I would wait another week. It seems like that she is just not ready yet. Keep the male away from the female so he does not get de-sensitized by her pheromones. I think the males turn in the wrong way because they want to make sure it is a female to mate with or it stimulates them....

 

[OctoberRainne]

I would feed her up a bit more give them some space,and position him a bit further behind,as they like to fly into females sometimes,I think she or he is just not ready,Make sure if he gets on her backwards again that you get him off without hurting her,if he doesn't flip around,cuz the male can puncture her with his claws doing this. Mostly just keep trying takes some males a good 3 introductions before they get the concept exactly right

 

[happy1892]

If she is not ready I do not think you can mate her and she is likely to hurt the male if you try to mate them too soon. I think you have been doing it right (not scaring them and other stuff).

 

[MantidBro]

I would wait another week. It seems like that she is just not ready yet. Keep the male away from the female so he does not get de-sensitized by her pheromones. I think the males turn in the wrong way because they want to make sure it is a female to mate with or it stimulates them....

She became an adult on the 4th of June and he became an adult on the 13th of June so I figured they'd be ready as it takes 2-3 weeks. I suppose there is the chance that they're not ready, though, who knows. I guess in that case all I can do is keep trying. I think the male knows immediately that it's female based on the first whiff they get, I think he was very stimulated by the smell though like you said which is why he was heading backward and just basically taking it in.

 

[MantidBro]

I would feed her up a bit more give them some space,and position him a bit further behind,as they like to fly into females sometimes,I think she or he is just not ready,Make sure if he gets on her backwards again that you get him off without hurting her,if he doesn't flip around,cuz the male can puncture her with his claws doing this. Mostly just keep trying takes some males a good 3 introductions before they get the concept exactly right

I thought I should feed her a bit more before the process too, to make her a bit slower. Good idea. Yeah I realized he likes to fly onto her. I let him go where he wants to go unless he gets within her view because then she'll see HIM and that's not what we want, for obvious reasons. He did claw her but there's only a slight mark, it didn't pierce the exoskeleton. She's the one usually doing the damage, poking his eye out and such. Mantid mating is risky business! I've been letting them in together for the past 2 weeks, each night, so they've had more than 3 introductions... I read somewhere that heat can help, I'm going to try that.

 

[MantidBro]

If she is not ready I do not think you can mate her and she is likely to hurt the male if you try to mate them too soon. I think you have been doing it right (not scaring them and other stuff).

Well she molted into an adult before he did. She became an adult on the 4th of June, and he did on the 13th of June.

 

[Rick]

Mounting the female backwards is normal and he should eventually turn around. If the female continues to attack the male it seems she isn't ready for mating.

 

[wuwu]

you should definitely feed her more first. her stomach looks so flat. you need to feed her to the point where she's refusing to eat.

 

[happy1892]

Yes, feed her until she does not want to eat anymore or is not very interested in food. But maybe doing that is unhealthy for mantids? lol

 

[MantidBro]

Mounting the female backwards is normal and he should eventually turn around. If the female continues to attack the male it seems she isn't ready for mating.

Oh okay. I tried again last night to no success. He was showing that he was stimulated but didn't end up going on her. I gave him 2-3 hours. She was being quite still, too, after I fed her a big meal and he had plenty of opportunities. The female has been opening up her reproductive organs, letting out the scent which attracts him, plus she became an adult on June 4th which was quite a while ago, so I feel that she IS ready. So I'm confused about why it hasn't been successful. I believe you've bred mantids? What did you do to get them to mate? Is it usually this difficult? Does heat help?

 

[MantidBro]

you should definitely feed her more first. her stomach looks so flat. you need to feed her to the point where she's refusing to eat.

I fed her a big meal, she looks big and fat now. I'm quite hesitant when it comes to letting my mantids gorge due to the risks. That's why she's flat; I don't over-feed them. I keep them in the middle of too thin and too fat. I personally think it's unhealthy for them to be allowed to gorge. It can cause compaction, cause fertile females to become egg-bound, both of which can literally kill them. plus makes them slower and makes it so they can't hold on to things as well due to being so heavy which can make them fall and get wounded. Oh and she may look flat, too, because she's a Narrow-winged mantis, they're more stick-like than leaf-like.

I did feed her til she dropped the rest of the food though and she's fatter. I won't feed her for a few days though so she won't be at risk of becoming sick. I'm going to try mating them again tonight, maybe he'll have better luck when she's full and slow.

 

[MantidBro]

Yes, feed her until she does not want to eat anymore or is not very interested in food. But maybe doing that is unhealthy for mantids? lol

I let her eat more so she's quite fat, I don't like over-feeding them but maybe its neccessary for the female to be full when trying to mate, so she's slower and less active, sluggish. I don't like doing it, I think you're right that it's unhealthy for them (compaction, egg-bound, plus falling because of being too heavy). I won't feed her for the next few days. I hope the male will have better luck tonight.

 

[happy1892]

In the wild female Chinese Mantids are often plump. If she is calling then I guess she is ready. Blow on the female and try to make her move without bothering her too much. That will make the male more interested. Feed her until she looks fat but not all the way to her rejecting food. It is probably better for her to eat a little at a time instead of having one huge meal that will fill her up.

 

[Rick]

Based on the time since molting she should be ready yes, but her actions say otherwise. Feed her well as she cannot produce good, healthy eggs without good nutrition. Keep in mind however, that feeding her well is no guarantee she won't eat him. There are studies that indicate males are more likely to approach a satiated female too.

 

[MantidBro]

Based on the time since molting she should be ready yes, but her actions say otherwise. Feed her well as she cannot produce good, healthy eggs without good nutrition. Keep in mind however, that feeding her well is no guarantee she won't eat him. There are studies that indicate males are more likely to approach a satiated female too.

Okay I fed her a good meal. Thanks for the info. I keep an eye on the situation to ensure she doesn't eat him. She's grabbed him a few times before they were able to mate and I split them up (with difficulty).