Chinese Mantids Mismolts on last molt

[garin33]

Hi All,

Up until about a week ago, I had about 20 Chinese mantids that I have raised since hatching from the ooth. They are now all sub adults with one more molt to go.

Last week some of them started their final molt. In the 10 that have molted, 7 had very bad molts. Deformed wings, crooked neck, damaged legs, etc. I waited a few days but things didn't change so I felt it best to put them in the freezer. It was very sad but it was horrible to watch them struggle just to walk. However, 3 molted perfectly with beautiful wings and seem very healthy.

I keep the containers humid with daily misting. I provide plenty of area for them to hang and things to grab on to and aid in the molting process. Only 3 out of 10 not making it, what am I missing? Could there be something else causing this? I still have 10 more subadults that are about to molt and I'm watching them day and night worrying what's going to happen.

Just a side note, I also have 2 flower mantids that I have raised since L2 and they molted to full adults no problem a few weeks ago.

Any advice would be so appreciated. Thank you!

Garin

 

[MantidBro]

Hi All,

Up until about a week ago, I had about 20 Chinese mantids that I have raised since hatching from the ooth. They are now all sub adults with one more molt to go.

Last week some of them started their final molt. In the 10 that have molted, 7 had very bad molts. Deformed wings, crooked neck, damaged legs, etc. I waited a few days but things didn't change so I felt it best to put them in the freezer. It was very sad but it was horrible to watch them struggle just to walk. However, 3 molted perfectly with beautiful wings and seem very healthy.

I keep the containers humid with daily misting. I provide plenty of area for them to hang and things to grab on to and aid in the molting process. Only 3 out of 10 not making it, what am I missing? Could there be something else causing this? I still have 10 more subadults that are about to molt and I'm watching them day and night worrying what's going to happen.

Just a side note, I also have 2 flower mantids that I have raised since L2 and they molted to full adults no problem a few weeks ago.

Any advice would be so appreciated. Thank you!

Garin

According to my friend of a mantid owner who was owned multiple species of mantid, it is common for a mantid not to reach adulthood due to issues with molting. Also, according to my own experience, it really doesn't have to do with how you care for them. Both my mantids were given the same treatment and one of mine died while the other is a healthy, full adult.

 

[garin33]

Thanks Mantidbro for the info.

I wanted to make sure that there wasn't something I could do to increase the success rate. But maybe it's just the difficulties of the final molt.

 

[lancaster1313]

Hi All,

Up until about a week ago, I had about 20 Chinese mantids that I have raised since hatching from the ooth. They are now all sub adults with one more molt to go.

Last week some of them started their final molt. In the 10 that have molted, 7 had very bad molts. Deformed wings, crooked neck, damaged legs, etc. I waited a few days but things didn't change so I felt it best to put them in the freezer. It was very sad but it was horrible to watch them struggle just to walk. However, 3 molted perfectly with beautiful wings and seem very healthy.

I keep the containers humid with daily misting. I provide plenty of area for them to hang and things to grab on to and aid in the molting process. Only 3 out of 10 not making it, what am I missing? Could there be something else causing this? I still have 10 more subadults that are about to molt and I'm watching them day and night worrying what's going to happen.

Just a side note, I also have 2 flower mantids that I have raised since L2 and they molted to full adults no problem a few weeks ago.

Any advice would be so appreciated. Thank you!

Garin

7 out of 10 mismolts on final molt does NOT sound common when Tenodera sinensis are given the proper husbandry.

What are the container dimensions? Can you post a photo?

What material is the ceiling of their containers made of?

Are there feeders in with the mantids during their ecdysis?

Are there any children or animals in the house that may be moving or jostling the containers?

 

[agent A]

flower mantises r tiny lol

these guys need a big cage to molt

 

[sinensispsyched]

:stupid: Tenodera sinensis needs a LOT of space. Since they are the largest N. American mantis species, they need a lot of space. Flower mantids (and most species, for that matter) require considerably less space.

 

[garin33]

Thank you for all the comments and suggestions.

I had some of the mantids in the critter containers that are 7x11x 8.5 (high). Based on the 2x width and 3x height, I thought that would be big enough for the mantids that are about 3 inches max as adults. But maybe I need bigger containers as suggested.

The lids have many slits for air and the mantids seem to like to hang on the lid upside down and seem to be able to hold it quite nicely because of the slits. Maybe I should put some screen up there as well to make their grip stronger.

I did have two in in smaller containers and one had a mismolt and one was successful. When one yesterday had a mismolt in the bigger critter container, I thought the container was not the issue.

I'm feeding them roaches (Lateralis) and the roaches did not seem to interfere with the molt. I watched one molt and it was on the top the entire time and these roaches can't climb.

I will get the larger containers and add more netting and see if that improves the molting success on these next 10.

Thank you for all the suggestions.

I'm curious, what type of containers does everyone use for the breeding of the larger mantids? I have 2 aquariums for 2 of the adults but buying 20 aquariums gets pretty expensive. It was nice when the 32 oz deli cups did the job because they were so inexpensive.

Garin

 

[sinensispsyched]

I let them out and introduce them.

 

[MantidBro]

Thanks Mantidbro for the info.

I wanted to make sure that there wasn't something I could do to increase the success rate. But maybe it's just the difficulties of the final molt.

You're welcome, hope you feel better about your dead mantids.

 

[lancaster1313]

I am sorry that you had to learn the hard way about critter containers.

Screening or other better grippable surfaces on the ceiling are important. When a mantis is partway through the molt it is no longer gripping anything, the old skin is. The mantis will be dangling from the old flimsy skin, and the skin tarsae can slip off the plastic easily. Screening can also be placed on the side of the container to help the still soft mantis get into a hanging position more easily.

You may still be able to use the critter containers if they are stable enough to be turned on their sides.

I have my mantids mate out in a room so the male is more likely to save himself. If there is a reason you can not do that, net butterfly enclosures can be better than nothing.

 

[garin33]

Thank you likebugs for the suggestions and everyone's comments too.

Likebugs, what do you use for a good grippable surface for the ceiling and sides? Is there a material that is better than screen?

Thank you,

Garin

 

[lancaster1313]

I just use window screen.

Some people have used shelf liners. If you like it to look pretty you may be able to use rough bark.

If I can figure out how to post a link, I will find a good thread that has more suggestions.

 

[lancaster1313]

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=22473

Here is a good thread, but there are many more on enclosures.

 

[Krissim Klaw]

So far all of my Chinese have preferred shedding from the walls versus the ceiling. I find the net cubes Live Monarch sells are lovely for this speices. Easy to grip screen and it offers a nice amount of room even for an adult. Sometimes things do just go wrong, but 7 miss molts out of 10 is really high.

 

[Sticky]

Hi All,

Last week some of them started their final molt. In the 10 that have molted, 7 had very bad molts. Deformed wings, crooked neck, damaged legs, etc. I waited a few days but things didn't change so I felt it best to put them in the freezer. It was very sad but it was horrible to watch them struggle just to walk. However, 3 molted perfectly with beautiful wings and seem very healthy.

Garin

My mantis Sticky mismolted when he was small. He fell and one of his legs was stretched out and black. I trimmed off the black part up to the good green part. He has had some challenging times but he has dfone very well. He even was able to mate with the girl I got for him. He is a survivor and has a wonderful personality and spirit.

It sounds like some of yours have worse deformities than Sticky. If they are not adults yet, you could handfeed them untill they molt again.

Robin.

 

[garin33]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Much appreciated.

Here's an update on the final molt issues of the Chinese mantids. Well I transferred some of the remaining 10 into some very large net containers. It has net on top and all around the sides. The mantids were hanging on the sides and 2 of them molted hanging on the sides in the net containers. However, these 2 also had mismolts. They are alive but badly deformed and laying at the bottom of the cages. A third one which I still had in a smaller container molted perfectly and seems healthy and well. The wings came out perfect. So I am totally confused at this point.

My only ideas at this point is that the mantids must have some health issue that has them weak and when the final molt comes, they don't survive because of their weakness. Does that make sense? Here are a few questions if anyone has some ideas.

1. What is the survival rate of the final molt to adulthood for Chinese mantids? 70%? 80%? etc.

2. Is the final molt the most difficult for most mantids? Or is this something that is just happening to me?

3. Is it common that a mantis can seem perfectly healthy but it is actually not healthy but you don't know that until it's final molt? (I hope that question makes sense?)

I'm thinking that I must being doing something wrong in the husbandry of the mantis that is affecting its health but it's not revealing itself until the final molt. In other words, it appears that all my mantids are healthy and happy but when they molt, it reveals something else. The only thing I can come up with regards to health is that I do put a little bit of water gel in the containers so they have moisture and something to drink if they want. When it gets hot, I do see the mantids eating the water gel. I have been making the water gel from regular tap water and I realize now that maybe the chlorine in the water is making them weak?

I have been doing the water gel thing since they were born and most of the mantids have been fine. I raised 2 creobroters this way from L1 to adult and recently just mated them and the female has laid ootheca, so it didn’t seem to affect them all.

Anyway, thanks again for all the input and hopefully I can figure it out to prevent this happening in the future.

Garin