D. hydei - Age of flies seems to affect start of culture

[kamakiri]

Started some cultures on 12/29, 1/1 and I finally have flies hatching a couple of days ago. I believe the problem with all of them is that I was using newly hatched flies. They were new, because the culture that they can from was being emptied of adults when feeding every other day or third day. I don't have records of the feeding days but odds are that the starter flies were mostly a day or two as adults. Many were still lighter in color.

Bottom line...don't use them just hatched unless you want a severely delayed start of production.

Prior to any pupae hatching, I used some of the those flies (at least two weeks old) to start another 'golden' D. hydei culture on 1/15 (with the new cardboard insert) and there are already maggots ready to pupate a week later. And that was started with only 10 adults. So the age of the flies seems to be the main factor. I'm going to guess that they are not ready to breed for about about a week. I always thought they'd be ready to breed right away. I also suppose this is why it is better to use more flies than 10 from a mixed age population.

 

[Katnapper]

Started some cultures on 12/29, 1/1 and I finally have flies hatching a couple of days ago. I believe the problem with all of them is that I was using newly hatched flies. They were new, because the culture that they can from was being emptied of adults when feeding every other day or third day. I don't have records of the feeding days but odds are that the starter flies were mostly a day or two as adults. Many were still lighter in color.Bottom line...don't use them just hatched unless you want a severely delayed start of production.

Prior to any pupae hatching, I used some of the those flies (at least two weeks old) to start another 'golden' D. hydei culture on 1/15 (with the new cardboard insert) and there are already maggots ready to pupate a week later. And that was started with only 10 adults. So the age of the flies seems to be the main factor. I'm going to guess that they are not ready to breed for about about a week. I always thought they'd be ready to breed right away. I also suppose this is why it is better to use more flies than 10 from a mixed age population.

Noteworthy observation. Thanks for the reminder (or new info for those who didn't realize). I believe I remember reading one sex generally hatches first also (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). So if you use only recent hatchlings to start a new culture, they could be disadvantageously sexually biased.

 

[nasty bugger]

What I have observed, with little experience, is I bought a hydei culture and about a week later the flies started disappearing.

After a couple more days there were no flies flying, but I notes some maggots wriggling.

About a week later I note some flies starting to fly, but after two weeks from the seeming dead state, around 3 weeks after getting the culture, I have lots of hydei flying around, and eating all the culture up.

The culture food is almost gone, so last night I made up three new cultures with potoato flakes and water with lemon juice and molasses and honey and a tablespoon or so of protein powder, with a tiny bit of yeast, oh yeah, and a dash of jaegarmeister, cheers.

I forgot to put protein mix in the third container, so I just poured it on top, or down the sides of the cotainer since the filters were already in the 32 oz deli cup.

Then I split almost all the hydei from the original culture and put them in these three containers to relieve the strain ,, or more to delay the finishing of the food in the original culture so that any maggots will have food when they morph.

This will be my first Hydei culture, so we'll see. I've been very successful with the mels though

I'll start my ooths for spring pretty soon, and will need food for the one's I'll start inside, then release outside. Not to mention I got a baby tarantula yesterday, so he's gonna need some food, mostly crickets, but we'll see if he likes the hydei.

Good luck.

 

[shorty]

I recently made a culture with flies from another culture that's been producing for a few weeks. It doesn't seem like they're reproducing much, but it hasn't been that long since I made the culture. I have no previous experience with D. hydei either. I have a bit of experience with D. melanogaster flies and I know they reproduce quicker and in bigger volumes. I hope my new culture starts reproducing because my old one is running out fast.

 

[kamakiri]

I recently made a culture with flies from another culture that's been producing for a few weeks. It doesn't seem like they're reproducing much, but it hasn't been that long since I made the culture. I have no previous experience with D. hydei either. I have a bit of experience with D. melanogaster flies and I know they reproduce quicker and in bigger volumes. I hope my new culture starts reproducing because my old one is running out fast.

This is condition is exactly why I thought it would be worth mentioning. Since your culture is running out, you are likely to have used mostly if not only newly hatched flies in your new culture. Instead of taking a typical 7-10 days to get pupae, you might not see any for another week...and so no flies for 2 1/2 to 3 weeks from the start date!

In my case, I'm glad I had pinheads and melanos on hand...or I would have been stuck.

Katnapper>

Thanks for mentioning the different maturation rates of the sexes...that could add more time, or cause a culture to 'crash' for no apparent reason! That could be disasterous for those of us with relatively small setups and few active cultures.

 

[Orin]

I'm sure adults take a few days after eclosion before breeding and laying eggs but a week seems overly long.

 

[damizz]

I know that it takes around 10 days for male Hydei to become fertile. I was also told that female Hydei hatch faster so the first hatch out would contain a high percentage of females. That being said, it is always good to grab some flies from another established culture as well as the newly hatched ones if you are hoping for a fast turnaround.

 

[Orin]

I know that it takes around 10 days for male Hydei to become fertile.

Not that it's not true but what's your source for that information? I kept hydei years ago but only keep melanogaster because hydei were always too large for the tiny things I need/ed flies for. You can actually see the minsiscule eggs of melanogaster by the 2nd or 3rd day.

 

[damizz]

Not that it's not true but what's your source for that information? I kept hydei years ago but only keep melanogaster because hydei were always too large for the tiny things I need/ed flies for. You can actually see the minsiscule eggs of melanogaster by the 2nd or 3rd day.

I have been keeping dart frogs for many years and at some point along the way one of the "bug experts" I know had brought it up at a meeting. I couldn't find any hard scientific evidence with my quick google search but I did find a page that refers to some research that was done. It mentions females hatching early as well as male fertility taking at least a week. Like I said, it isn't scientific but it matches with my experiences keeping d. Hydei for many years.

http://www.dendroworld.co.uk/BDGarchive/d_hydei.html

 

[kamakiri]

I'm sure adults take a few days after eclosion before breeding and laying eggs but a week seems overly long.

The week estimate could include gestation period before laying and/or the time to hatch after laying. It does seem long, but I'll try to repeat the results next time I try to delay the start of a culture for maintaining feeder stock.

 

[shorty]

The new culture I made still doesn't seem to be producing much, however, I've observed some flies hatching in my old culture. They are all light in color and I believe they are newly hatched. I hope my new culture starts producing soon because the old one is running out of media.

 

[PhilinYuma]

I have been keeping dart frogs for many years and at some point along the way one of the "bug experts" I know had brought it up at a meeting. I couldn't find any hard scientific evidence with my quick google search but I did find a page that refers to some research that was done. It mentions females hatching early as well as male fertility taking at least a week. Like I said, it isn't scientific but it matches with my experiences keeping d. Hydei for many years.http://www.dendroworld.co.uk/BDGarchive/d_hydei.html

Yeah, I found this too and think that it answers the question very neatly (besides, it's British, so it pretty much has to be right ). I shall soon have enough hydei to "mix and match" and shall try this out.

 

[damizz]

(besides, it's British, so it pretty much has to be right ).

Don't forget that because it's on the internet it has to be true as well

 

[Katnapper]

The new culture I made still doesn't seem to be producing much, however, I've observed some flies hatching in my old culture. They are all light in color and I believe they are newly hatched. I hope my new culture starts producing soon because the old one is running out of media.

Hey Shorty... mix up just a little bit of media (a few spoonfuls) and throw it in your old culture to keep it going until your new culture starts producing. I do this if they run out of media and still appear to have a little potential.

 

[kamakiri]

I have been keeping dart frogs for many years and at some point along the way one of the "bug experts" I know had brought it up at a meeting. I couldn't find any hard scientific evidence with my quick google search but I did find a page that refers to some research that was done. It mentions females hatching early as well as male fertility taking at least a week. Like I said, it isn't scientific but it matches with my experiences keeping d. Hydei for many years.http://www.dendroworld.co.uk/BDGarchive/d_hydei.html

Thanks for the link.

So it appears there are so many ways for a new hydei culture to fail. Not enough females, not enough males, and sexually immature males seem to be at the top of the list.

It is interesting that one of the contributors in the link did solve the problem "by starting new cultures with masses of flies". My guess is that only worked because it ensured older males and flies of both sexes. Bad way to continue your cultures when you are short on feeders. I only picked 8 and 10 flies for the lower limit in my cultures since they should statistically include at least a few of each.

I think I'm going to have to test the 'Females first to hatch' theory next. I took my newly hatched flies from a mature culture with overlapping generations so that wouldn't apply to my previous cultures.

 

[PhilinYuma]

Thanks for the link.So it appears there are so many ways for a new hydei culture to fail. Not enough females, not enough males, and sexually immature males seem to be at the top of the list.

It is interesting that one of the contributors in the link did solve the problem "by starting new cultures with masses of flies". My guess is that only worked because it ensured older males and flies of both sexes. Bad way to continue your cultures when you are short on feeders. I only picked 8 and 10 flies for the lower limit in my cultures since they should statistically include at least a few of each.

I think I'm going to have to test the 'Females first to hatch' theory next. I took my newly hatched flies from a mature culture with overlapping generations so that wouldn't apply to my previous cultures.

Many people who successfully raise hydei (or mels, for that matter) would consider that eight to ten flies to start a new culture is about one third of the acceptable minimum. If you find yourself in an emergency situation, continue with mels and go to your local Pet Smart that may, if you are lucky, be selling 2oz (60cc) vials of hydei for about $2,50 a throw. At the same time, order a couple of 32 oz pots of hydei by Priority Mail from the commercial seller closest to you and you should get them within two to three days. Start new cultures with "lots of flies," and you should have success. This is really not a very difficult or arcane procedure.

Fruit flies, BTW, are notoriously bad at statistics.

 

[kamakiri]

Fruit flies, BTW, are notoriously bad at statistics.

:lol: Yeah, they only know how to multiply!

Many people who successfully raise hydei (or mels, for that matter) would consider that eight to ten flies to start a new culture is about one third of the acceptable minimum. If you find yourself in an emergency situation, continue with mels and go to your local Pet Smart that may, if you are lucky, be selling 2oz (60cc) vials of hydei for about $2,50 a throw. At the same time, order a couple of 32 oz pots of hydei by Priority Mail from the commercial seller closest to you and you should get them within two to three days. Start new cultures with "lots of flies," and you should have success. This is really not a very difficult or arcane procedure.

I think you're misunderstanding me. My single, best producing culture was started with 10 flies that were 15 to 17 days old. It is outproducing the culture that they were pulled from, which was started with about 50 flies newly hatched.

My comment about starting cultures with masses of flies being a "Bad way to continue your cultures when you are short on feeders." was just anecdotal, and not the situation I'm in. I'm just trying to share what I have learned with my casual experiments and help people understand factually why hydei are more difficult...so we *don't* have our fellow forum members without feeders for their nymphs. My intent is to *save* people from that need to buy a 32 oz pot in an emergency because of a failed culture or two.

"Start new cultures with "lots of flies," and you should have success"...as long as they are not all newly hatched or sexually immature!

 

[yen_saw]

D. hydei does take couple of week mature. i try to speed it up by bumping up the temp to 85F and about 10 days later i finally witnessed some mating D. hydei. the usual problem is media turning bad/mould before female flies laying fertile eggs so i have to start a new media but use the same batch of D. hydei.

 

[kamakiri]

Yen> In that case, I would move those flies to a new culture and use some sort of mold inhibitor like vinegar and/or honey in the media. If it's moldy now, it won't be better in two weeks.