Hawkmoth / Hornworm Question

[sporeworld]

So, I'm experimenting with Hawkmoths - Manduca quinquemaculata. aks "Hornworms" or "Goliath Worms" as food options for my Idolos.

My concern is this: I've read on herp pages, that you should NOT feed WILD Hornworms to your replitles, because of the toxic build up from their host plants (tomato/tobacco). Is this ALSO true for mantids? If it IS, is this also true for wild MOTHS that fed on the toxic host plants...?

I intend to raise mine on the packaged mix, but it's good to know if i want to switch over. I'm happy to experiment on local Europeans, if necessary (sorry, fellas).

Any insights...?

 

[Malti]

when you say packaged mix, what does it consist off?

 

[sporeworld]

The places that sell the worms, also sell the mix. There's receipes on the forum, but I'm too lazy at this point to do them myself.

I've read as they get bigger, I can feed them tomatos (not the leaves) and a few other veggies, but I won't risk it on the first round.

 

[Termite48]

Mark: Why cannot you experiment with some expendibles as in Chinese mantid hatchlings? If they show signs of toxic ingestion with your intended feeders, then you go no further until you get a desired result with them. Idolos are never at risk.

Rich

 

[hibiscusmile]

Really no reason as why he could not use those, guess whatever is to much in stock could be the experimentor!

 

[patrickfraser]

I'm good with experimenting on those Europeans.

 

[PhilinYuma]

Watch out, Sporeworld. Rich S. and Rebecca are trying to kill off yr stock! Notice that they are not volunteering any of their own.

But I have two good pieces of news for you.

Unlike us dumb humans, mantids don't eat poisonous critters until they drop dead. The whole point of an insect being toxic is to warn off, not kill off, other insects. Birds and mammals are more likely to have major problems, and even they seldom die. They come to associate the color of the prey with its noxious taste.

The other piece of good news is that the prepared food, in my experience, does not contain any poisonous alkaloids. The adults only eat nectar, so I wonder if they even contain any residual alkaloids from their larval days.

Let us know how things work out (as though you wouldn't!).

 

[sporeworld]

Hahah!

My gut feeling is that there's no real issue. I've heard that Monarchs, for instance, DO retain toxins from the milkweed, and I've had mantids as a kid that ate them.

I'm also thinking that, since I've already fed my Idols WILD Hawkmoths, and they're doing fine, that there's a good chance THOSE moths were raised on something "toxic".

I remember Brian A. working with Hornworms a while back. Maybe he'll chime in...

So, unless I hear otherwise, if I even DO use a "toxic" host plant, I'll test them on Europeans first, and MALE Idolos second. Maybe wait a generation before trying them on gravid females.

 

[dragon]

While concern is understandable, do keep in mind that what is poisonous for one animal often is not for another. I have fed hornworms to leopard frogs with no ill effects. The family of a friend of mine used to have chickens when he was a kid and they always tossed the hornworms from the tomato plants to the chickens. Chickens went nuts over them and never had any problem.