If we could, what do you think?

[Colorcham427]

This is about engineering genes. Imagine a mantid growth hormone with no negative side effects other than being big enough to be fed snake feeders. (That's pretty scary IMO)

What would your opinions be on this? Leave them be, let nature take them to their destination? Or, see what OUR species, us humans, can do with these crazy looking insects in a lab!?

LOL I would love to see what some of you think! Keep it clean please.

 

[Nepfreak]

I don't think it would be possible. Insects have no internal skeleton, and their exoskeletons can only sustain them up to a certain size... that's why we don't have tarantulas the size of cars.

 

[manzano167]

let nature take its course cuz imagine the praying mantis Huge! it would easily grab humans for dinner! and other things IMO But if it were that big to eat a snake? iunno depends what snake you mean cuz i seen a video where a asian mantis eats the whole snake

 

[lancaster1313]

I like them fine the way they are.

 

[guapoalto049]

Just think of the relative strength of the mantis. I'd be terrified and interested at the same time. Chickens would end up being feeders for a 3' mantid!

It would be a cool concept, but unfortunately there's a reasonable limit. Their respiratory+cardiovascular systems are not complex enough, as hemolymph could not be pumped efficiently to get O2 to all tissues.

I think a cooler thing to do would be to find the muscle inhibitor gene (if there is one) and selectively breed to turn it off. Breeders did this naturally with Belgian Blue cattle. Cattle with myostatin mutations were bred until progeny expressed that trait. They're born with more muscle fibers than regular cows, so when the muscle develops its much bigger. Imagine a Hierodula with twice the strength?

 

[angelofdeathzz]

I'm with you on that Brian, I always wondered what it would be like to try to pick up a 2 ft. mantis, I would try but with adrenaline rushing through my veins. I was going to post "what if Mantis were 2 ft." but it just sounded crazy! :blink: lol

 

[Ntsees]

It would be interesting if that can happen, but like someone said before, there's a limit to the size. Makes me remember of a topic way back when the dragonfly was discussed. Prehistoric dragonflies were definitely larger than the present and the atmospheric conditions shouldn't have varied much from today. Because of that, mantids can get larger (double, triple) in size but there's the limit too. I wonder if a selective breeding project for larger size would work.

 

[kitkat39]

Yeah I would love to make them more resistent to the cold. It would be fine to make them as big as a cat or a small dog, however, I think it would be nice to somehow make them as intelligent as one too. Would be nice to come home from work and have run out of nowhere and flapping it's butt like a ghost mantis while fetching you your slippers or something.

 

[PhilinYuma]

Well, that about covers it! As guapoalto (so are there a lot of tall, sexy Latinos in Scranton, mate?) points out, oxygen enters the insects' hemolymph by inefficient diffusion, so you'd also have to install a pressure machine, like lungs and a diaphragm in the thorax. Once you've done that, perfected the growth hormone and designed a new, tougher, more rigid chitin you are set. Actually, I've heard it said that a mantis can eat a pinky as is, but I'd suggest tripling the length, which will give you nine times the mass. and chickens and rabbits and small humans (to start with) will be on the menu.

I think that they'll do just fine. Unfortunately, they will have hunted us to extinction before taking over the world. But hey! Perhaps they'll save a few us as pets. In a jar.

 

[guapoalto049]

Well, that about covers it! As guapoalto (so are there a lot of tall, sexy Latinos in Scranton, mate?) points out, oxygen enters the insects' hemolymph by inefficient diffusion, so you'd also have to install a pressure machine, like lungs and a diaphragm in the thorax. Once you've done that, perfected the growth hormone and designed a new, tougher, more rigid chitin you are set. Actually, I've heard it said that a mantis can eat a pinky as is, but I'd suggest tripling the length, which will give you nine times the mass. and chickens and rabbits and small humans (to start with) will be on the menu.

I think that they'll do just fine. Unfortunately, they will have hunted us to extinction before taking over the world. But hey! Perhaps they'll save a few us as pets. In a jar.

Hahaha Phil, my forum name isn't as descriptive/accurate as yours. Guapoalto049 was my instant messenger screen name from middle school...sadly it stuck. I'd almost forgotten what it meant, it seemed much more clever when I was 11 and trying to impress the ladies

More rigid chitin is a neat thought, maybe like a Rhinoceros beetle! Speaking of that, is beetle exoskeleton tougher because its thicker or are there additional polypeptides?

 

[Colorcham427]

hahahaha I knew this would get interesting and amusing!!!

 

[PhilinYuma]

Hahaha Phil, my forum name isn't as descriptive/accurate as yours. Guapoalto049 was my instant messenger screen name from middle school...sadly it stuck. I'd almost forgotten what it meant, it seemed much more clever when I was 11 and trying to impress the ladies

More rigid chitin is a neat thought, maybe like a Rhinoceros beetle! Speaking of that, is beetle exoskeleton tougher because its thicker or are there additional polypeptides?

Interesting question, the few recent articles and physiology books that I have read concentrate on the minutiae of chitin synthesis, because when entomologists master that, they'll be able to disrupt/block the process so that they can do what they like best, kill more insects more efficiency.

An earlier book, though, Fundamentals of Insect Physiology by Murray S. Blum (1985) addresses your question in detail.

First, cuticular chitin formation always follows the same path (I described it here, once -- no idea why!) and ends up with the same poly-N-Acetylglucosamine. Also the all-important crystalline structure (chitin layers with different orientation from one crystalline layer to the next). does not differ beyond the three basic forms (c.f.!).

The layers have varying amounts of what i call "packing debris" between them, mostly broken off amino acid residues with small side chains, and it does seem that those insects with the heftiest chitin have the highest scores. Your rhinoceros beetle, Xylotrupes gideon, for example has 47 amino acid residues per 100 total residues, and other large beetles also score high, though the ancient common hawker dragonfly (it's out now, in Yuma) scores 64, while the pupa of the silk worm, protected by its cocoon, only score 21.

The problem is, though, that heavy, stiff epicuticular chitin tends to be rather brittle; not much of a problem for a beetle's elytra, but not so good for a mantid's tergites (it would not be a problem with molting, though, since the chitin does not completely harden until a day or two after ecdesis) so we shall have to work on something. Resilin, perhaps? You do realize, though, don't you, that if these experiments are successful, they will mean the end of life as we know it?