Inflation

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superfreak

superfreak

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i hate starting a topic in this section of the forum as it always means something is wrong :( :( :(

alrighty. my new H. majescula female was going wonderfully until she moulted. She didnt mismoult. Had a small encounter with a stray cricket but that was dealt with quickly. I though it was all fine until i realosed that its been more than a week since she moulted and shes still refusing food. Not only that but har abdomen looks like its completely distended. It seems not as heavy as it would be were it full of food and is somewhat translucent when held up to a light. I will upload a picture asap. Has this happened to anyone before? Tell me it survived! :)

sigh... :mellow:

 
I had a very old mantis and her abdomen got HUGE. It was full of air though and she did die.

 
yeah :( i think its full of air. this ones not old though - shes only sub-sub adult.

ah well we shall see. thanks rick :)

 
so if she gets worse... perhaps i should release some of that air with a sterilized pin...? only as a last resort, of course...

 
superfreak said:
so if she gets worse... perhaps i should release some of that air with a sterilized pin...? only as a last resort, of course...
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That sounds like a smart idea. Instead of a pin, though, which will just leave a wound that might seal up, you might want to try a 21G or 23G needle if you can obtain one. Alternatively, rotate a piece of glass tubing over a bunsen burner and draw it out so that the center is as narrow as capillary tubing -- I imagine that you have done this at one time or another and your lab may even stock such pipettes. My fear, though, is that the gas is being caused by an ongoing infectious or necrotic process, but as you say, as a last resort... and at least you'll be doing something!

I assume, and I'm sure that you know more about arthropods' digestive tracts than I, that the production of free nitrogen gas or liquid in the abdomen is due to a (fatal if permanent) failure of the Malpighian tubules, but could it also be due to a distal obstruction of the gut itself? Before using a needle, you might try introducing a blunt probe like a lubricated toothpick, anally, to dislodge any potential blockage. This would have the merit of being, technically, a non-invasive procedure. You could then go to step 2 if that fails.

In the US I have stunned insects using CO2 generated by Alka Seltzer dropped in warm water, but perhaps you have something more sophisticated!

Best of luck, and please let us know the outcome.

I shall light a candle for you and your friend before the Shrine...

 
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so i got me a nice, sterilized razor and deflated her. as we suspected - lots of gas, virtually no liquid at all. after this she seemed a tad happier and drank an awful lot. unfortunately she continues to ignore food and even push it away when hand fed. so i held her and force fed her a cricket. occasionally she would forget that she wasnt supposed to be enjoying it and start munching happily without me having to shove her face in it, but this never lasted long. after her meal she re-inflated :( all in all it has been difficult looking after this one. i think ill try to get her to her next moult and then if shes still constantly blowing up like a balloon then ill leave her to her fate :(

urgh! :angry:

 
I'm sorry the surgery wasn't a permanent fix :(

Could you describe where you made the puncture?

I don't know any of the technical nature of the organ, but my guess is that this is caused by a problem with an 'air bladder' used primarily for molting. I haven't disected any of my pets so I really have no idea...does somebody know if there is such a separate organ?

 
between the lateral and ventral margins on her abdomen, between the third and fourth plates.

didnt want to do it completely ventrally as their hearts and nerve chords run along there, no?

 
I don't know any of the technical nature of the organ, but my guess is that this is caused by a problem with an 'air bladder' used primarily for molting. I haven't disected any of my pets so I really have no idea...does somebody know if there is such a separate organ?

No there isn't. Insects do not have air bladders, though they do have a number of "air sacs" in the thorax and/or abdomen. These are discrete sacs that can be compressed by hemolymph concentration and muscular action, (particularly those of flight) but they are not going to cause abdominal swelling. It is interesting that you should associate such an organ with molting. In some critters, true flies, for example, the air sacs tend to inflate after eclosure -- you're trying to confuse us again on this eclosure/ecdysis issue, aren't you! :p

I am familiar with the action of the malpighian tubules, active transport of nitrogenous waste analogous to our renal tubules if you don't get too picky, but I have no idea what happens if they fail. I suspect that free nitrogen may occur as a result of the breakdown of such waste in the hemolymph. The consequent elongation of the abdominal muscles would inhibit hunger.

Don't be fooled by Superfreak's "I'm just a mantis lover doing my best" posture, by the way. It's not saying much, but I'm pretty that she knows a lot more insect anatomy and physiology than I. I would have made a midline incision and probably gone right through the ventral nerve cord. :( Skill and knowledge make a good combination in any field.

Nearly forgot! Here's a really good old article on the function of insect air sacs: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v198/...s/198106a0.html

 
For the puncture, that's what I was thinking would be best, and just trying to avoid the spiracles which should be clearly visible. I would go ventral of the 'line' of spiracles.

My theory about air being the fluid to compress for molting is just based on my observations during molting. And I'm not talking about the molt being simply the act of shedding tho old skin, but just after, when the abdomen is fully expanded/stretched. Usually just after the legs are free and it is really just the last couple of segments holding on. Since the mass of the mantis does not increase after molting (actually decreased due to the loss of the exuvium), the significant change in size of a mantis while distended must be due to air. Shortly thereafter, the abdomen is deflated and no liquid is lost. Makes me think air was used for that last step. I would doubt the air sacs would be involved, except in conjunction with such an organ.

 
kamakiri said:
For the puncture, that's what I was thinking would be best, and just trying to avoid the spiracles which should be clearly visible. I would go ventral of the 'line' of spiracles. My theory about air being the fluid to compress for molting is just based on my observations during molting. And I'm not talking about the molt being simply the act of shedding tho old skin, but just after, when the abdomen is fully expanded/stretched. Usually just after the legs are free and it is really just the last couple of segments holding on. Since the mass of the mantis does not increase after molting (actually decreased due to the loss of the exuvium), the significant change in size of a mantis while distended must be due to air. Shortly thereafter, the abdomen is deflated and no liquid is lost. Makes me think air was used for that last step. I would doubt the air sacs would be involved, except in conjunction with such an organ.
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I've seen the inflation on mantids that just molted. In one case I had it was an adult female that was very old. She died soon after blowing up.

 
PhilinYuma said:
Did the post-moult bloating go away sponateously? If so, how long did it take to "disappear?
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I lost count how many times i've seen mantid that just molted blow up. It happens right after molting while they are still hanging from the old skin. It goes away.

 
First: Sorry to hear about yr Rain Forest mantis, Superfreak, but like Katt says, you both fought the good fight.

Second: Tom, the wild caught female S. limbata who laid her first ooth for me on the day that I found her, in extremis, on 100408 (041008) died today. No period of senescence for her. She was occasionally still laying a tiny ooth, just to show that she could do it, in season or out, and she chased down and ate a bee yesterday. She had the Right Stuff.

Mija has advised me that I should mount my mantids, "for remembrance sake," so I shall do that.

I shall light a Special Candle for both mantids before the shrine of the Great Mantis Goddess (Blessed be Her Name) and consign them to Her care.

Damn!

"and all the trumpets sounded for them on the other side"

 
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