Kinda random....

[Tiara]

Hey guys,

I had 3 wide arm babies. They were all doing excellent then on sunday the littlest one was walking really funny. I thought maybe he is gonna molt or something. Then later that day he was dragging his back legs around or picking them straight up in the air, it looked really weird. So then he was seeming to get weaker but still had a small cricket. So I hoped maybe he would pull through and molt and his legs would be better. Sadly enough, he passed on yesterday. The other two look fine and are acting fine. Anyone have this happen before??? :huh:

 

[bassist]

It just happens I lost one with similar symptoms.

 

[ismart]

This sounds more like some physical damage was inflicted. I have whitnessed this same behavior when i close something on limb. Wide-arms do not handle sickness well. Infact i have never had a wide-arm recover from any sickness for that matter.

 

[Tiara]

I don't think he got hurt, unless maybe he fell off a leaf, but even then, he couldnt have hurt himself that bad you think? I feel so bad for him. I guess at least he isnt in pain.

 

[ismart]

It probally was an infection then. So sorry for your loss . Unfortunetly we do not yet know the reason for most mantid deaths.

 

[Rick]

It probally was an infection then. So sorry for your loss . Unfortunetly these thing happen.

What basis do you have for your infection theory? Many mantids lay hundreds of eggs to ensure at least a couple survive. Little nymphs die all the time. These are fragile insects and you have to accept some deaths.

 

[ismart]

What basis do you have for your infection theory? Many mantids lay hundreds of eggs to ensure at least a couple survive. Little nymphs die all the time. These are fragile insects and you have to accept some deaths.

I said probally an infection. I dont know for sure. I do know when wide-arms are sick for any reason they deteriorate very quickly and die. They seem to be prone to sickness more so than other species, and feeding them crickets is a bad idear. It does not matter how well you feed your crickets. Wide-arms do not seem to digest them well. When i say this i'm speaking from experience. I now feed mine mostly flies, and have a lot less dieing than when i was feeding them crickets.

 

[Tiara]

I said probally an infection. I dont know for sure. I do know when wide-arms are sick for any reason they deteriorate very quickly and die. They seem to be prone to sickness more so than other species. And feeding them crickets is a bad idear. It does not matter how well you feed your crickets. Wide-arms do not seem to digest them well. When i say this i'm speaking from experience. I now feed mine mostly flies, and have a lot less dieing than when i was feeding them crickets.

Maybe that is why they are dying? I have been feeding them crickets for the past couple feedings. I thought they were good for them they wouldnt go after baby dubias and they need like ten fruit flies every day or they look really skinny. What should I doo???

 

[ismart]

You need to upgrade to house flies or larger roaches. You could always buy some fly pupea from mantisplace or spiderpharm. Not to mention it's cheaper than buying crickets. What instar are your wide-arms?

 

[Hypoponera]

Hey Rick,

Is there a reason you are so against the idea of infections in mantids? I'm not sure about mantids, but bacterial and fungal infections do occur in other insects. In fact, BT bacteria are used in agriculture to control several species of moth larvae. I also have several cool photos of ant workers that have been killed by fungal infections. If you have some text that states mantids don't get infections and why, let me know as I'd love to read it!

 

[PhilinYuma]

Yeah, Paul. I don't have enough experience to make general statements on these guys, but I lost several of the widearms that I got from you, before changing to mostly flies, and the survivors are doing fine. They also take bees just about as soon as they enter the pot.

And yes, infection has been cited as a cause of death for mantids. In the breeding section of Prete's book (p. 315), D. Yager reports that though not common, "some facilities [labs raising mantids] have lost entire cultures to infections (in some cases, possibly introduced by crickets from commercial suppliers)." Since he works in the U.S., it's something worth bearing in mind.

It may be that widearms have particularly low natural resistance to pathogens carried by American crickets. He also suggests that humidity (but not how much) and cleanliness are two other factors implicated in such infections. Since we don't know the etiology of these diseases and have no cure, the best we can manage is prophylaxis. It would probably be best to kill such mantids to prevent spread of the disease, but since we usually cant be sure... B)

And before anybody writes in to say that they raised a widearm entirely on crickets, bear in mind that chance is an important factor in who/what becomes infected or doesn't. Remember Typhoid Mary.

 

[ismart]

So sorry Phil , but thank-you for bringing this to my attention!

I really should have mentioned to you that wide-arms dont do so well on crickets. I will be sure to mention this to all who buy from me in the future.

 

[Rick]

Maybe that is why they are dying? I have been feeding them crickets for the past couple feedings. I thought they were good for them they wouldnt go after baby dubias and they need like ten fruit flies every day or they look really skinny. What should I doo???

No it's not. There is not a thing wrong with crickets as long as the crickets themselves are healthy and well fed. There are better foods for some species but the majority can eat crickets no problem. 98% of the mantids I have kept were fed mostly on crickets and that included wide arm mantids. I have had few issues and even fewer related to crickets.

Hey Rick,Is there a reason you are so against the idea of infections in mantids? I'm not sure about mantids, but bacterial and fungal infections do occur in other insects. In fact, BT bacteria are used in agriculture to control several species of moth larvae. I also have several cool photos of ant workers that have been killed by fungal infections. If you have some text that states mantids don't get infections and why, let me know as I'd love to read it!

Yes there is. I never said they didn't get infections for one. Second, it irks me that as soon as somebody has a mantis issue someone else spouts off it was an infection with literally no proof of that. I bet that the vast majority of these problems are not related to infections at all but most likely to poor/wrong conditions. If you want to say it was an infection then by all means go ahead and do it but make sure that was the actual problem. If not, all it does is scares people into worrying about infections which should be the least of their worries.

 

[PhilinYuma]

So sorry Phil , but thank-you for bringing this to my attention!I really should have mentioned to you that wide-arms dont do so well on crickets. I will be sure to mention this to all who buy from me in the future.

No problem, Paul! I'll get some more from you if you have any in the near future (I'll PM you).

 

[Rick]

So sorry Phil , but thank-you for bringing this to my attention!I really should have mentioned to you that wide-arms dont do so well on crickets. I will be sure to mention this to all who buy from me in the future.

They don't? Based on what? I kept widearms for over a year and guess what was the only thing they ate? You got it, crickets! Nothing wrong with them eating crickets people. Treat your crickets as well as your mantids and you won't have issues.

This wide arm was raised on crickets her whole life and so were several others. Look how sickly she looks!

 

[Tiara]

My babies are 3rd, 3rd and 4th the one that died was 3rd. Now my other 3rd is acting funny. I changed his bedding because if the crickets had a disease or something, i dont want it to kill him. The dudia are bigger than the crickets, so I think they are scared of them. House flys are good though??

 

[Rick]

My babies are 3rd, 3rd and 4th the one that died was 3rd. Now my other 3rd is acting funny. I changed his bedding because if the crickets had a disease or something, i dont want it to kill him. The dudia are bigger than the crickets, so I think they are scared of them. House flys are good though??

I guess you do not want to take my advice. If you use crickets get them from a good source (not your local pet store) and feed them good. House flies/bluebottle flies are great however good luck feeding an adult female just on flies.

 

[bassist]

Honestly I think the mantis was just a runt had a few different species do the same thing then they'd just die, though other factors could have caused the death of the wide arm. As I said it just happens I think little to nothing of how a mantis dies or what could have caused it unless the 'black death' is associated.

 

[Rick]

Honestly I think the mantis was just a runt had a few different species do the same thing then they'd just die, though other factors could have caused the death of the wide arm. As I said it just happens I think little to nothing of how a mantis dies or what could have caused it unless the 'black death' is associated.

Small nymphs are especially vulnerable to death for no obvious reasons. Many like to think they know why but we really don't. I am with you unless it is something obvious I have done wrong. At the end of the day it is just an insect and you cannot expect it to live long.