L1? L2? Sub-Adult? Adult? Huh?

[lectricblueyes]

Hey, just curious what the L1/2/3 etc all means? Is there a post here in the forums that outlines the aging sequence and what it all means? If so, should we make that a sticky?

I probably should re-read my "Praying Mantis: Keeping Aliens" book. I do admit, i read it at night before I go to bed and my mind isn't so sharp then like a dull butter knife really.

 

[Emile.Wilson]

its for the molts the mantis has gone througg, sub adualt means it is one molt away from adult hood

 

[PhilinYuma]

I agree with Rob Byatt (a scholar and a gentleman) that the "L" abreviation sucks. If you consider the eggs and adults of hemimetabolous insects as "instars" (you can, I don't, who does?) then after its first ecdesis, the teeny weeny nymph can be said to be in its first "larval" instar (L1) as opposed to its "second instar." After each molt, it is promoted to a higher L number, and After its penulimate ecdesis (LOL!) the last larval instar is said to be "sub adult" and in winged specimens will often (usually?) demonstrate wing buds. It is good to know this instar, so that you can make plans to start breeding "soon." The only excuse that I can see for this abreviation is probably the one that perpetuates it. If you refer to a "L2" nymph in this hobby, everyone knows what you mean, even if they don't know what the actual letter stands for.

Congratulations! You are the first persom I have seen ask this question! This forum's search engine doesn't allow single letters, even when placed in quotation marks with a longer word, so I don't know whether this has been done, probably better, before.

 

[lectricblueyes]

I agree with Rob Byatt (a scholar and a gentleman) that the "L" abreviation sucks. If you consider the eggs and adults of hemimetabolous insects as "instars" (you can, I don't, who does?) then after its first ecdesis, the teeny weeny nymph can be said to be in its first "larval" instar (L1) as opposed to its "second instar." After each molt, it is promoted to a higher L number, and After its penulimate ecdesis (LOL!) the last larval instar is said to be "sub adult" and in winged specimens will often (usually?) demonstrate wing buds. It is good to know this instar, so that you can make plans to start breeding "soon." The only excuse that I can see for this abreviation is probably the one that perpetuates it. If you refer to a "L2" nymph in this hobby, everyone knows what you mean, even if they don't know what the actual letter stands for.Congratulations! You are the first persom I have seen ask this question! This forum's search engine doesn't allow single letters, even when placed in quotation marks with a longer word, so I don't know whether this has been done, probably better, before.

Oh wow, thanks. This is making things much much more clear. I now know that I have "L2" Shield Mantids because they just molted.

Larval Instar Stage to Adult

L1 - Birth, never molted

L2 - First Molting

L3 - Second Molting

L4 - Third Molting

L5 - Fourth Molting

L6 - Fifth Molting

L7 - Final Molting, Sub-Adult

Adult - Appearance of wings or wing buds (Depends on Species)

Do I have that right?

Thanks so much for taking the time to explain

 

[Katnapper]

Oh wow, thanks. This is making things much much more clear. I now know that I have "L2" Shield Mantids because they just molted. Larval Instar Stage to Adult

L1 - Birth, never molted

L2 - First Molting

L3 - Second Molting

L4 - Third Molting

L5 - Fourth Molting

L6 - Fifth Molting

L7 - Final Molting, Sub-Adult

Adult - Appearance of wings or wing buds (Depends on Species)

Do I have that right?

Thanks so much for taking the time to explain

David, the ones you have that have molted again are now at L3. They had all already previously molted once before you got them, which made them L2.

Your list/chart is mostly correct. But from what I understand, some diifferent species can have more or less numbers of molts before reaching adulthood. It's one of the things that still confuses me somewhat... but I don't really worry about it too much. There are more pressing things to worry about... like feeding hungry mantids, and making sure they are in appropriate sized containers, etc.

 

[PhilinYuma]

David, the ones you have that have molted again are now at L3. They had all already previously molted once before you got them, which made them L2.Your list/chart is mostly correct. But from what I understand, some diifferent species can have more or less numbers of molts before reaching adulthood. It's one of the things that still confuses me somewhat... but I don't really worry about it too much. There are more pressing things to worry about... like feeding hungry mantids, and making sure they are in appropriate sized containers, etc.

Thanks, Katt! That was a masterful copout and makes me feel better about doing the same thing! :lol:

David: The "L" number ends with a molt of the same number. L1 ends with the first molt and L5 with the fifth etc. After its final molt (regardless of number) a sub adult becomes an adult and doesn't molt again.

The number of instars tends to be between 6-9, according to species, and the number may be higher in males than in females. Mija's Orthodera novaezealandiae go through six instars and become adults after their sixth molt. I have had female sinensis that became adult after their eighth molt and males after their ninth (if I counted right!).

Some breeders keep a log on each pot of the inmate's molts and can maybe amplify this.

The bug has bitten you really, really hard, hasn't it?

 

[Katnapper]

Thanks, Katt! That was a masterful copout and makes me feel better about doing the same thing! :lol:

:lol:

 

[Morpheus uk]

I now know that I have "L2" Shield Mantids because they just molted.

No you would have a 2nd instar shield mantis

 

[Katnapper]

No you would have a 2nd instar shield mantis

Actually, now that they are molting again since he's gotten them... they are now are at their 3rd instar.

 

[kamakiri]

First thing...wow, you've got lots of questions!

L1 - Birth, never molted

Hrm, well 'birth' isn't the word I'd use and 'never molted' is not quite right either. A newly hatched nymph leaves the egg case then sheds or leaves the exuvium. It's not technically a molt, but has many of the characteristics of a molt. I'd just say that L1 is a hatchling.

 

[PhilinYuma]

First thing...wow, you've got lots of questions!Hrm, well 'birth' isn't the word I'd use and 'never molted' is not quite right either. A newly hatched nymph leaves the egg case then sheds or leaves the exuvium. It's not technically a molt, but has many of the characteristics of a molt. I'd just say that L1 is a hatchling.

I'm onto you, Kamakiri! You're one of those ninja mantises that sneak up on us and spread confusion (pretty easy to do in my case!). :lol:

For a moment, you almost had me believing that "'never molted' is not quite right either."

Molting = ecdesis = shedding the exoskeleton, which is certainly not the same as shedding the exuvium, since the exoskeleton remains intact. That (as you know!) is eclosure. So, indeed, "never molted" is absolutely correct for the first larval instar or, shudder, "L1."

{And for those who don't know, off hand, what a "kamakiri" is, you will find it in your Japanese - English dictionary} B)

 

[lectricblueyes]

I'm onto you, Kamakiri! You're one of those ninja mantises that sneak up on us and spread confusion (pretty easy to do in my case!). :lol: For a moment, you almost had me believing that "'never molted' is not quite right either."

Molting = ecdesis = shedding the exoskeleton, which is certainly not the same as shedding the exuvium, since the exoskeleton remains intact. That (as you know!) is eclosure. So, indeed, "never molted" is absolutely correct for the first larval instar or, shudder, "L1."

{And for those who don't know, off hand, what a "kamakiri" is, you will find it in your Japanese - English dictionary} B)

I looked it up, it means "Praying Mantis".

 

[kamakiri]

I looked it up, it means "Praying Mantis".

I had to find out the hard way...a sketch on a napkin at dinner with Japanese friends!

And I can enjoy making gray areas...ask my secretary...or my boss.

 

[Cosmic]

The number of instars tends to be between 6-9, according to species, and the number may be higher in males than in females. Mija's Orthodera novaezealandiae go through six instars and become adults after their sixth molt. I have had female sinensis that became adult after their eighth molt and males after their ninth (if I counted right!).

It's generally the other way around, males go though less moults than females i.e H. coronatus males mature at 6th instar females at 8th instar, never counted my T. sinensis moults but they moulted around the same time to adulthood so think they go though the same amount.

 

[PhilinYuma]

It's generally the other way around, males go though less moults than females i.e H. coronatus males mature at 6th instar females at 8th instar, never counted my T. sinensis moults but they moulted around the same time to adulthood so think they go though the same amount.

You could be right. I cleverly gave myself some wiggle room!

BUT, if Mija says that it takes six molts for O. novaezealandiae, then six it is!