male and female chinese

[womantis]

are there different species of chinese? do i have the same species? female on right, male on left. size difference is even more apparent in person.

i raised the female from L1 - she has 6 segments and very round abdomen. the male is wild caught, slender and at least 1.5 x her size.

 

[Ghost_Keeper]

Look like both Tenodera Sinensis to me.

 

[LAME]

Heya womantis, just got home and seen the emails... I agree that they both do looks Chinese.

The male was a wildcaught... Which may have a little to do with his overall size? I agree though now that I've seen your photos lol... He is big.

Maybe your female's just smaller for some reason?...

That is weird.

 

[womantis]

he is gorgeous lame..and of the few wild caught, is still the absolute biggest i have seen for sure..perhaps our mantids in california are just smaller and illinois is good living for the mantids? wondering if she's a risk for losing her head...

 

[LAME]

Has she started calling yet?... I'd say watch out for that and keep an eye on the male and judge his reactions...

Can you get a photo of the female's inside part of her arms?

Though she looks Chinese, I'd feel better knowing for sure before recommending breeding.

I'd feel terrible of you bought a male for a female of another sort, though if that's the case I could get you a female or refund you.

On a side not though, if you think he's big.... You should see the female's here! Lol! They are pretty nicely sized..

 

[Krissim Klaw]

are there different species of chinese? do i have the same species? female on right, male on left. size difference is even more apparent in person.

i raised the female from L1 - she has 6 segments and very round abdomen. the male is wild caught, slender and at least 1.5 x her size.

Is it possible the girl is a Tenodera angustipennis? Look between her claws where they attach to her thorax and see if there is a bright orange dot. If so you are most likely dealing with a Tenodera angustipennis.

 

[Rick]

Could be T. angustipennis. Check the "armpits" for an orange spot. T. sinensis will have a yellow spot there. There are other differences but that is the quickest way to tell.

 

[LAME]

Chinese also will have small black dots on the inside of their arms. T. angustipennis won't..

 

[womantis]

both have yellow dot between arms, neither dot is that pronounced so a bit hard to tell. her hindwings appear are uniformly lacy brown.

out of curiousity, isn't the size difference (female bigger than male) necessary for breeding?

Has she started calling yet?... I'd say watch out for that and keep an eye on the male and judge his reactions...
Can you get a photo of the female's inside part of her arms?
Though she looks Chinese, I'd feel better knowing for sure before recommending breeding.

I'd feel terrible of you bought a male for a female of another sort, though if that's the case I could get you a female or refund you.

On a side not though, if you think he's big.... You should see the female's here! Lol! They are pretty nicely sized..

she appears to be calling in any case...would love to buy a female from you - no refund! i honestly would be interested in seeing the size of a females you have!

 

[womantis]

Could be T. angustipennis. Check the "armpits" for an orange spot. T. sinensis will have a yellow spot there. There are other differences but that is the quickest way to tell.

i see a faint yellow dot between arms of both.

 

[womantis]

she also had uniformly lacy hindwings. out of curiosity, with such a marked size difference (male being larger), could breeding take place? i thought the male had to be smaller.

 

[MantidBro]

she also had uniformly lacy hindwings. out of curiosity, with such a marked size difference (male being larger), could breeding take place? i thought the male had to be smaller.

I honestly am not sure they could mate considering how much bigger than her he is. I think youre right that they need to be smaller be able to reach the right spot. If he grabbed onto her shoulders i dont think itd be as easy for him. But its worth a shot. I had a sinensis female that was 3", and found a male at a different spot that was bigger than her. Sometimes some are just bigger than others. Maybe he ate more, maybe one was wild caught and the other captive bred, etc. I realized ones i caught outside were always bigger than the ones i hatched and raised. Maybe it has to do with there being more oxygen outside, i read that insects back in the day were so huge compared to todays insects because there was more oxygen, so there was always enough for their bodies as they grew.

 

[LAME]

I was on debate about the wild / captive theory myself...

 

[MantidBro]

I was on debate about the wild / captive theory myself...

Oh yeah... Echo was huge and was raised in captivity, hmm... Maybe like we mentioned back then, it is more related to how much variety they get, prey-wise? Or maybe just how much they eat? Echo was definitely well fed lolOr maybe its simply genes?

 

[mantisman 230]

I have bred a pair with this difference before xD was interesting. I have found such "Pygmy" female chinese mantids before. Were much smaller than my other females.

 

[dmina]

wondering if she's a risk for losing her head...

The male is not interested in eating.. (hopefully you try and feed him prior to breeding) He is there for another reason... LOL

 

[LAME]

Mantidbro is right.. Echo was big. But my newest Chinese female is even bigger than she. Which came as a surprise to me...

Though I could imagine a captives home,feeding diet, lighting, ect.. Could all be factors at play? This maybe stunting growth?...

 

[MantidBro]

Mantidbro is right.. Echo was big. But my newest Chinese female is even bigger than she. Which came as a surprise to me...

Though I could imagine a captives home,feeding diet, lighting, ect.. Could all be factors at play? This maybe stunting growth?...

I would think so! like the size of their cage might even be a factor, like how plants wont grow too big if theyre in a smaller terrarium

 

[Mantis Man13]

Yes I have done much research about his and captive bred mantises tend to be smaller than wild mantises. Just like you I have had a 3 inch female chinese captive bred and found a 3 inch male chinese outside. Also, I have bred 2.5 inch male chinese as captive. Female chinese mantises outside tend to be about 4 inches long. This is just how it goes and I have come to accept it over the years. Do not worry about it, your mantis is just fine. It just has to do with several different factors for caged vs free mantises, like for example the mantis sitting in a cage the whole day every day. This fundamental goes for all types of mantises. My female dead leaf mantis wild would be 4 inches long but it turned out 3 inches captive. My brunners stick mantis would have been 4 inches long as well but it turned out 3 inches captive. My carolina mantises, since they were wild for 3 molts, became normal size as an adult, however. If they were raise in captivity as an infant that would not be the case. As you can see there is obviously a connection between growth rates of wild vs kept mantises. If you have anything to add on to this please let me know.