poison sack

[aje88]

wat happens if a mantid eats like a spider and eats the poison gland.will the mantid be effected. p.s im not sure if this should be on health but it is more on feeding.

 

[Rick]

Nothing will happen. I have fed black widows more than once after finding them in my house.

 

[PhilinYuma]

Like Rick says. Most insect/spider venoms that are injected through a bite or sting have to be injected and come in direct contact with nerves in the victim's muscles. Many of us feed our mantids bees and wasps, and their poisan glands have no effect on the mantids that eat them. There have been some problems reported though, with large wasps that manage to sting the mantis in a vulnerable spot, but this seems to be rare.

 

[kmsgameboy]

wat happens if a mantid eats like a spider and eats the poison gland.will the mantid be effected. p.s im not sure if this should be on health but it is more on feeding.

Venom doesnt work unless it gets into the blood. You can drink rattle snake venom and it wont to a thing to you....the same is true for mantids. The important thing is that venom DOES NOT = poison! Poisons can kill when swallowed.

 

[jameslongo]

First-Pass Metabolism at its finest

 

[PhilinYuma]

First-Pass Metabolism at its finest

Interesting point, James. My first-hand knowledge of first-pass matabolism is pretty much limited to aromatic chain substances, such as tricyclic anipdepressants, where what you take is obviously not what you get, and poisonining by the metobolite leaves a "smiling corpse." Some poisons, though, like alcohol (absorbed through the stomach) and any of the metalic poisons, don't seem to be subject to hepato-portal metabolism, and just kill you as is. I'm sure, though, that you would agree that a poison is any substance taken in sufficient quantity to exert an adverse effect upon the body, such as carotene taken in quantities that produce jaundice, or Coca Cola taken in sufficient quantities to cause hyperkalemia.

kmsgameboy (hi, mate!) is obviously overgeneralizing in suggesting that "venom doesn't work unless it gets into the blood." Although some venoms have a hemolytic effect, e.g. the spines of Lonomia sp. caterpillars can cause a hemorrhagic syndrome in humans, and the anticoagulant injected by mosquitoes, most venoms injected by insects into other insects act directly on the neuromuscular system and are often very local in action. The jewelled cockroach wasp, Ampulex compressa, first injects its victim in the prothorax, to slow the cockroach down, and then injects it in the subesophageal ganglion (hey! I mentioned that yesterday!) to screw up its thoracic synapses. Many archnids inject digestive juices with their venom, but I can't think of any insect that does so, off hand. Venom injected by reptiles into mammals is often transmitted through the blood stream, but that's not what we are talking about here. Most arthropod bites or stings tend to have a localized effect, unless they cause an allergic reaction.

 

[jameslongo]

I'm sure, though, that you would agree that a poison is any substance taken in sufficient quantity to exert an adverse effect upon the body, such as carotene taken in quantities that produce jaundice, or Coca Cola taken in sufficient quantities to cause hyperkalemia.

In the words of our dear old German friend (not Christian ) Paracelsus, "Alle Ding sind Gift, und nichts ohn Gift; allein die Dosis macht, daß ein Ding kein Gift ist."

 

[PhilinYuma]

In the words of our dear old German friend (not Christian ) Paracelsus, "Alle Ding sind Gift, und nichts ohn Gift; allein die Dosis macht, daß ein Ding kein Gift ist."

Grim but true, and for anyone who doesn't have his German dictionary handy, the old guy is saying, "All things are poison, and nothing lacks poison. Only the dose makes something non poisonous."