i have had success with breeding my insects in the past but just wondering as long as there is connection even if its for a minute or so would that still count as a mating success and one of my males connected for like a minute but then they broke the link but hes still on her so wonder if he is still going to try again or what?
praying mantis minute
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PhilinYuma
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MantidLord
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The same thing happened with my Mantis religiosa. But my male stayed on her and then kept "connecting". If you can see the spermatephore at the tip of her abdomen, then it's safe to say that the mating was a success (also if she lays an ooth within the next week or two). But you can't tell if its fertile until it hatches.
well they were hanging on the top of a net cube and when i turned it on its side then the male remade the connection with the female and so they are still in the breeding mode!
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MantidLord
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Great to hear. Though if he's like my male he may disconnect and then reconnect. I don't know what that's all about but that's what happened
Emile.Wilson
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My orchids have been breeding for days now, sometimes they are connected sometimes hes just sitting on her back. I think the boys get tired from doing booty slaps on the girls.
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No. Most mantids stay connected for hours or days. However I have read that it only takes about 30 mins for the male to fertilize the female. Even then I would want to see at least a few hours of connection.
MantidLord
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I agree, it eases the mind. But do most mantids just ride the female even when not copulating?
Ntsees
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In my opinion, I don't think male mantids would want to just ride the female without copulating. It's pretty much a race against time and the longer the male stays on her back, the more danger he puts himself into. The objective is to copulate as fast as he can and as long as he can to make sure his genes are passed on and at the same time to escape with his head. It would be naturally disadvantageous for male mantids to just ride on the back of females without mating. Because of this, if a male was just riding a female and not getting his job done, I would say that there is something wrong with him.
MantidLord
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I agree. But what I meant is that the male would ride the female after he got the "job done". Instead of running for his life, he just sits there on top of her.
superfreak
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In which case it might be advantageous for the male to ride the female, as he prevents other males from copulating and increases his chance of being the father. 
MantidLord
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But in cases like that I've read that the male will increase copulation, not increase his time on the female. Besides this usually only happens when there are other males present.
PhilinYuma
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"But in cases like that I've read that the male will increase copulation, not increase his time on the female. Besides this usually only happens when there are other males present."In which case it might be advantageous for the male to ride the female, as he prevents other males from copulating and increases his chance of being the father.
No one knows for sure, but I would go with Superfreak on this one (though come to think of it, I usually do
)It is "received widom." See the Prete Book, p.88.
Increased copulatory rate is usually associated with the "disinhibition" (yup, I made that word up) following the removal of the male's head.
Male "sperm insurance" strategies, aside from combat, do not necessarily require the presence of a rival male. An example is the behavior of some male songbirds who plug the female's cloaca with mucus after copulation to prevent intromission by a successive rival (doesn't always work, though!).
I would add here that describing males who may stay on top of a female for days before copulation as "wimps," is often slanderous. In fact, it is the female who can prevent intercourse by raising her abdomen or closing her vulvulae.
Ntsees
Well-known member
Interesting. This may be true for other mantids, but for the mantids I raise, it's not necessarily the case. The male has these two small hooks at his cloaca. With these two hooks, he hooks them onto the female's cloaca regardless of whether she tries to raise her abdomen or not. The hooks move back and forth to open the cloaca for copulation.
Ntsees
Well-known member
I guess there are gray areas in everything. It is true that males riding on females do prevent other males from copulating as that is seen in walkingsticks. However, I had seen cases where a male mantid will still try to copulate with a pair that's already in copulation. Of course, this probably applies to some species only. The result is that one of the males, usually the new-comer, gets eaten because he is not able to get into a safer position.In which case it might be advantageous for the male to ride the female, as he prevents other males from copulating and increases his chance of being the father.
Ntsees
Well-known member
Oh yeah, if that's the case, then that happens all the time (at least with me). As strange as it sounds, I use that method to determine the health/condition of my males. If the male doesn't make a run for his life after copulation, then to me, the male is not in the best health (maybe due to age or not being kept properly or he hasn't warmed up enough before the mating). It doesn't mean that he's going to die soon, it just means that he is becoming slow and stands a good chance of getting eaten. I say this because whenever wild males in my backyard mate with the wild females, as soon copulation is complete, he is gone in a flash. He might stick around for a few seconds/minutes only because he's aware that any movements he makes will be dangerous. As soon as the female make a small movement, like cleaning her forelegs, the male is makes his very quick escape.
I think you mentioned to me that Iris oratoria are very common in your area. You should try to observe the matings of wild specimens or capture some to do that. What ever you do, don't wait too long because the objective is to observe the matings of wild healthy specimens (I'm making the semi-false assumption that health goes down the longer the male is in captivity).
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PhilinYuma
Well-known member
Surely. Thats what the hooks are for, but Michael R. Maxwell, who has an chapter in the Prete book, and who now teaches at National University in La Jolla, I believe, works a lot with I. oratorio and suggests that the female may be able to prevent the male from doing this.
Very nice observation on your part! With my aging vision, I'm glad if I can even see that they are coupled.
