Unexpected Loss

[Krissim Klaw]

My Miomantis binotata Invoke passed away tonight. I was not expecting to loose her and the only thing I can think of is there was something on the fly she ate yesterday afternoon. I didn't see any signs of illness until I looked in on her tonight and saw her crumpled in her cage. She appeared fine earlier during the day and she even laid an ootheca the night after eating the fly.

In the over decade I've been keeping mantises, I've always offered wild caught prey along with my other feeder bugs because I figured the benefits of offering a more natural/varied diet outweighed the risks. Still I've always known that sometimes it can go badly. Does this sound like a poisoning to those who have dealt with that? I always sort of thought if I ended up with a contaminated bug the effects would be more stark and the death quicker after eating. I suppose maybe something went wrong internally after laying the ootheca. I'm just at a loss and did not see this one coming.

She would have been 7months old the 25th of this month. I'm not sure what the norm is for this species, but I would have thought she still had plenty of time considering my boys of the same age are still doing fine and usually males as a whole tend to age out quicker than females.

I'm just really feeling bummed out.

 

[PrayingMantisPets]

Sorry for your loss

 

[Krissim Klaw]

Sorry for your loss

Thank you, it has been a rotten couple of days. The other day I went to feed my special needs girl and I couldn't spot her in the cage. I spent ten minutes trying to find her before pulling out her hanging plant. Just my luck she was beneath several layers of leaves in the midst of laying an ootheca. I completely ruined it for jarring her out of the process and the half finished ooth was a wash because too much was exposed. I was still feeling guilty about that and now this.

 

[Ranitomeya]

Man-made insecticides are mostly quick-acting with the exception of those that kill with mechanical action or slow-acting substances that are meant to be spread throughout a colony before action. Some natural toxins act slowly or must be digested first before release and some shut down parts of the body and death happens suddenly after the body is no longer able to cope with the lack of a critical metabolic function. In addition, many animals have differing levels of vitamins and minerals within their bodies and their corresponding native predators will have developed ways to cope with it. For example, we would die from hypervitaminosis if we were to eat seal liver due to the extremely high levels of vitamin A, but polar bears are capable of feeding on them without any problems. It would not surprise me if the differences in health and adult size between captive and wild mantises are the result of the differences in nutrient levels obtained from their food.

Aside from just toxins and other substances, you must also remember that there are organisms that can be ingested such as parasites and disease-causing microbes that have an incubation period and generally do not act quickly.

There's value in offering a variety of wild-collected food items for nutritional content if you're not keeping and caring for your own feeders to ensure that they have optimal nutritional values, but it doesn't always outweigh the risk of introducing a very large variety of unknown substances and organisms into their diet.

 

[Domanating]

Each time I read these topics where poisoning comes first on the table I imagine the US spraying rivers of poison on grasslands, people drinking poison and eating apples with a 1cm thick crust of DDT around them, supposing Krissim Klaw lives in the US of course (since most of the forum members do)

Is it really that bad over there or is just an assumption?

Many members here complain about feeding wild caught bugs because they might have pesticides or whatever and yet those same members find wild caught mantids that are living alongside and eating bugs that are filled by said pesticides and are still happily breathing.

I would definitely say that the ooth laying was a way more probable cause for the apparently premature death than poison. I say 'apparently' because I've not only had many young adults dying for no apparent reason but I also had many old adults that didn't show any external aging sign also dying for no apparent reason.

So instead of assuming poison I say that some mantids obviously live longer than others, like pretty much all animals.

 

[dmina]

Sorry for your loss.. sound like a tough couple of days... wishing you better days ahead...

 

[Krissim Klaw]

There's value in offering a variety of wild-collected food items for nutritional content if you're not keeping and caring for your own feeders to ensure that they have optimal nutritional values, but it doesn't always outweigh the risk of introducing a very large variety of unknown substances and organisms into their diet.

Yes, I know there are a variety of things that could go wrong feeding wild caught. It has just always been one thing I've enjoyed doing for my mantises. I like being able to give them something outside of the usual feeders and although I don't enjoy killing any insects I feed, I find a certain pleasure going out on nice days with my net, catching a variety of different bugs and bringing a couple home for my mantises to enjoy as snacks. With as attached as I get to individuals though there is a part of me that says even one death is one death too many.

Each time I read these topics where poisoning comes first on the table I imagine the US spraying rivers of poison on grasslands, people drinking poison and eating apples with a 1cm thick crust of DDT around them, supposing Krissim Klaw lives in the US of course (since most of the forum members do)

Is it really that bad over there or is just an assumption?

I wouldn't say the USA is particularly worse than most places that grow food agriculturally on a large scale. I'm guessing like most countries we still use more pesticides/chemicals than we really should be, but not to the point where I would say our country is the stuff of nightmares. DDT has been banned here since the 1970s and as I mentioned in my opening post, I have been feeding wild caught to my mantises for over a decade, and this is the first time I've feared I might have lost one because of pesticide.

I would agree that individual mantises can certainly have different natural lifespans. Usually though I get more of a sense if they are aging out. This time it definitely feels like something went wrong before her time, but as is so often the case, I can't be hundred percent certain what exactly it was.

Sorry for your loss.. sound like a tough couple of days... wishing you better days ahead...

Thank you so much for the kind words. <3

 

[CosbyArt]

Just too many variables even if someone could run some tests to find a cause. I am sorry for your loss, it can be especially difficult if you feel you are to blame. Although it sounds like you did nothing wrong and kept your girl well fed. I wish you the best with your other mantises.

 

[Krissim Klaw]

Just too many variables even if someone could run some tests to find a cause. I am sorry for your loss, it can be especially difficult if you feel you are to blame. Although it sounds like you did nothing wrong and kept your girl well fed. I wish you the best with your other mantises.

Thank you. On a lighter note, a few minutes ago I glanced over at my ootheca cage and saw Invoke's first ootheca has started to hatch out nymphs. It seems she succeeded in her efforts at becoming a mother.

 

[CosbyArt]

Thank you. On a lighter note, a few minutes ago I glanced over at my ootheca cage and saw Invoke's first ootheca has started to hatch out nymphs. It seems she succeeded in her efforts at becoming a mother.

Nice, great to see she will live on in her nymphs. Congrats

 

[dmina]

Thank you. On a lighter note, a few minutes ago I glanced over at my ootheca cage and saw Invoke's first ootheca has started to hatch out nymphs. It seems she succeeded in her efforts at becoming a mother.

Awww how cool is that! I guess that was her way of saying things are going to be just fine.... Sweet!

 

[sally]

Awww. I am glad they are hatching. She will live on now.

 

[Krissim Klaw]

Thanks everyone for the kind words. :wub:

There is always something soothing about looking at a bunch of freshly hatched nymphs. I forgot how small this species is though. I can't believe in less than 24 hours they are ready to tackle something as large as a fruit fly.

 

[[email protected]]

Sorry for your loss, and congrats on your nymphs! This is definitely a heart retching hobby!