Very small Chinese...?

[sporeworld]

Hey, guys!

Someone brought me a mantis that looks very similar to a Chinese female (long and slender), but less than half the size. Also, her wings only go about 2/3 the way down her back. There's also that slight color variance on the edges of the wings.

The ooth she laid looked like a 1/2 size version of my Carolina's (not all foamy like the Europeans). I didn't allow her to mate while with me, but about 12 nymphs popped out of her ooth anyway (presumably, she mated before I got her).

Is this a different species, or just a much smaller, odd sample of a Chinese...?

Mark

 

[Katnapper]

Are you sure she's not an S. carolina that just laid a small ooth?

 

[Rick]

Looks like a european mantis in that pic. A better pic may be needed and a pic of the ooth.

 

[sbugir]

Looks like a european mantis in that pic. A better pic may be needed and a pic of the ooth.

+1

 

[Ntsees]

This is something that I cannot pass by. The way you described the mantid and it's ooth, the form of the mantid, the way the mantid is colored on the body parts - looks like the species that I raise. Check it's hind underwings. It should have some yellow, orange, and a big black spot fading outwards from the center. There's a very high probability that it's a Mediterranean mantid (Iris oratoria).

Also, where are you located? I'm guessing you're somewhere in the Western U.S.?

 

[ismart]

That is an Iris oatoriar.

 

[sporeworld]

Man, you guys are GOOD! Iris oratoria it is!

I checked online and found several pics that match my lil baby exactly! Very nice work.

I'm, in Los Angeles, and I've had people bringing me mantids from their gardens for a decade now (once people know you're into this kind of thing they just keep on comin...). This is the first time I've seen this species.

And wikipedia says, "...this species is capable of parthenogenic reproduction when males are scarce...". That is SO very cool!

Thanks again, guys!

Mark

 

[massaman]

dont hold your breath on it laying ooths that can hatchwithout mating as wikipedia can be wrong on this instance and has been on other things!

 

[sporeworld]

Ha, ha! That's probably true. Her first ooth DID hatch out about a dozen lil nymphs (so far), which is more exciting now in light of the POSSIBILITY of parthenogenesis. You know, a boy can dream...

Mark

 

[Ntsees]

...I'm, in Los Angeles, and I've had people bringing me mantids from their gardens for a decade now (once people know you're into this kind of thing they just keep on comin...). This is the first time I've seen this species....

Ok. As far as I know so far, Iris oratoria is in the Western states. I was asking your location because I want to know where else besides the West that this exotic species has become naturalized (that doesn't mean that people should go releasing them because you shouldn't do that). Anyways, we're glad we can help identify.

 

[PhilinYuma]

dont hold your breath on it laying ooths that can hatchwithout mating as wikipedia can be wrong on this instance and has been on other things!

Look before you leap, Massaman!

Parthenogenesis is pretty well documented in I. oratorio, Sporemen, c.f. http://www.usc.edu/CSSF/History/2005/Projects/S1906.pdf

If they are parthenogenic, they will all be females in this species, but the odds favor yr female having been inseminated prior to capture.

 

[ZoeRipper]

Look before you leap, Massaman! Parthenogenesis is pretty well documented in I. oratorio, Sporemen, c.f. http://www.usc.edu/CSSF/History/2005/Projects/S1906.pdf

If they are parthenogenic, they will all be females in this species, but the odds favor yr female having been inseminated prior to capture.

Phil, are you Jesus?

You know EVERYTHING!

Plus that article was extremely interesting, I read the whole thing

 

[PhilinYuma]

Phil, are you Jesus?You know EVERYTHING!

Plus that article was extremely interesting, I read the whole thing

Oops, Zoe! I had some quick explaining to do there! I am but a humble servant of the Great Mantis Goddess (Blessed be Her Name) who shares at least one thing with the Other Guy: "I am a jealous God...." (Deuteronomy 5:8-9), but I made it quite clear that It Wasn't Yr Fault because I hadn't mentioned Her recently.

An extra, nice thing about that article is that it was written by a California H.S. student for the state's annual Science Fair. He was mentored by two professors from University of California, Riverside, so the article is pretty credible. Glad you liked it!

 

[sporeworld]

Again, wow.

I'm glad I posted. I had no idea we had other local mantids in Los Angeles besides, Carolina, European and Chinese. Time to start google searching...



Ntsees - you've been raising this species for 12 years...? Why THIS species in particular...?

Mark

 

[Ntsees]

Again, wow.I'm glad I posted. I had no idea we had other local mantids in Los Angeles besides, Carolina, European and Chinese. Time to start google searching...



Ntsees - you've been raising this species for 12 years...? Why THIS species in particular...?

Mark

Iris oratoria was my first mantid species and the only mantid I raise because, although they are not native to the U.S., it's so common where I am. I also happen to like their wing coloration/pattern. Someday, I might raise other mantid species though.

One thing. There shouldn't be any Carolina mantids in the Western states since that species is native to the Eastern U.S. I'm going to guess that you meant to say Bordered mantid (Stagmomantis limbata). But with transportation of many things, it is possible that some may have been introduced to the West.

Since you're in the West, try to keep an eye out for the California mantid (Stagmomantis californica) because there are quite a few people here, myself included, who want them. It's a Bordered mantid with purple/red/black underwings.

 

[Rick]

Forgot all about the Iris. Not the greatest pic you posted. It still looks kinda like a european mantis, but since the poster compared his to the pics of the Iris then I am sure that is what it is.

 

[sporeworld]

Yeah, I get the limbata here a lot, but not sure about the California. Any other obvious differences besides the wing color...? They look to have about the same body shape...

And it's for sure not a European - I always look for the eye spots on the arms first. I've got 2 of those right now.

Mark

 

[Ntsees]

...Any other obvious differences besides the wing color...? They look to have about the same body shape....

Since I've never seen one so far, that's the only differentiation that I'd use based on seeing pictures on the web and the discussions we've had on the forum. Other than that, they look very similar to the limbata mantid.

 

[sporeworld]

Hey, Ntsees...

You said you raise this species - can they be kept communally...? Seems unlikely...

Mark