Tenodora sinensis mismolt

Minty Mantis just molted again. Noticed his wings just aren't right and one rear leg is at a weird angle. Is there anything I can do to help? I just put a jar with water near his heater thinking he night have gotten too dry and misted his enclosure a little. He is in a screen mantis mansion. 

@cwebster With wings that means he molted his final time, and is an adult (as only adults have wings and no longer molt). There is nothing that can be done to fix molting issues besides him repairing the problems with another molt, so he sadly will have the problems the rest of his life.

Wing related problems are only cosmetic for pets, since he will not be flying anywhere for a mate. He should be able to use his twisted rear walking leg, getting better using it in the next few weeks. If the leg is a problem for him, he may choose to amputate it himself, which they sometimes do.

Thank you for your quick response. I hope Minty will be ok and keep eating. Am hoping he will overwinter as he just now reached his adult most. I thought he already had done that as he had wing buds showing for a long time...I thought he already had his final molt. Am wondering if the humidity was too low in his mantis mansion especially since there is a space heater in the room, although I mist his enclosure several times per day lightly against the mesh. I wish the little guys had fewer molting problems and lived much longer. My brother just sent me new ootheca yesterday...I don't know if I am up to it again but I guess I'm hooked. Am already looking forward to spring and am even reading about other species too that are easy to care for. 

cwebster said:

Thank you for your quick response. I hope Minty will be ok and keep eating. Am hoping he will overwinter as he just now reached his adult most. I thought he already had done that as he had wing buds showing for a long time...I thought he already had his final molt. Am wondering if the humidity was too low in his mantis mansion especially since there is a space heater in the room, although I mist his enclosure several times per day lightly against the mesh. I wish the little guys had fewer molting problems and lived much longer. My brother just sent me new ootheca yesterday...I don't know if I am up to it again but I guess I'm hooked. Am already looking forward to spring and am even reading about other species too that are easy to care for. 

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Most species tend to have highly visible wing buds for the last few instars (L6-L7 with some easily identified at L5) before adulthood (L8) when they get their wings.

Humidity could have been a issue, as I found the habitat you have, and being a solid mesh one they are very hard to keep any humidity due to all the air exchange. With those habitats you have to treat the room with a ultrasonic humidifier for good results, as they quickly take on the room's humidity level (RH) within minutes of the water drying. In which case with a heater in the room likely in the 30% range or less.

As an adult he should live 4-6 months just depends on the species, care, and the individual (as I've had several from the same ooth kept identically and there are a few who die quicker, many lived the typical lifespan, and some who lived much longer).

Well best of luck with your ooth. If though you do not want to hatch it you can place a classified ad to sell it instead.

Is it possible to do any gentle physical therapy on a twisted mantis leg?  just put a hygrometer in the bathroom and am checking out ultrasonic humidifiers. Minty is in a bathroom where a very tiny heater keeps his cage at 65 to 70F. He ate some offered honey and is getting around. 

cwebster said:

Is it possible to do any gentle physical therapy on a twisted mantis leg?  just put a hygrometer in the bathroom and am checking out ultrasonic humidifiers. Minty is in a bathroom where a very tiny heater keeps his cage at 65 to 70F. He ate some offered honey and is getting around. 

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The exoskeleton is made of chitin and is not flexible and will simply break if any such therapy was attempted - and is recommended you do not attempt it in any way (it will only make matters much worse). With most likely any results being broken off/amputated legs - the most gentle touch would be way too much. Even if you could apply the lightest touch it would be off no affect to help the mantid in the slightest.

He will be fine with the leg, it is a common mismolt issue and is not life-threatening. Glad he is doing good and getting honey.

Thomas, thanks. Will just let him be. Was just hoping i could help before his exoskeleton hardened again. Humidity in the room with him is only 45% so will get a humidifier before the next mantises hatch. Am sad i didnt already have the humidity higher. I keep wet sponges in the cage bottom and mist many times per day but that is not enough. Could use aquariums for the older nymphs from now on but have read high humidity can lead to mold. Will look around for better housing. How do they ever survive outside with the cold, low humidity, all those molts,  and constant predation? They sure have a rough life. 

So if they dont have muscles and just chitin, how do they control their limbs? Something inside the tubemustcontrol things. People want to meet aliens...they are all around us. 

cwebster said:

Thomas, thanks. Will just let him be. Was just hoping i could help before his exoskeleton hardened again. Humidity in the room with him is only 45% so will get a humidifier before the next mantises hatch. Am sad i didnt already have the humidity higher. I keep wet sponges in the cage bottom and mist many times per day but that is not enough. Could use aquariums for the older nymphs from now on but have read high humidity can lead to mold. Will look around for better housing. How do they ever survive outside with the cold, low humidity, all those molts,  and constant predation? They sure have a rough life. 

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I'm sorry, I see the exoskeleton explanation I made versus humans skin/muscles was confusing, my fault. Indeed mantids have muscles, however physical therapy will be unable to affect the muscles inside the hard exoskeleton. Although I found a insect study shows insects can still move without muscle.

For any chance to have helped straighten the leg it would have to been done while he was initially drying out half molted, as they remove themselves about 80% and dry/harden for 30 minutes to 1.5 hours before finishing the molt. Although while it is in the still softened state any movement can stretch (which will not return to normal) and break the soft exoskeleton.

To put their survival outside in simple terms, that is while some species lay a dozen ooths per female and each ooth hatches 100+ nymphs each (1200+ nymphs total) - just for a few dozen likely to live on.

cwebster said:

So if they dont have muscles and just chitin, how do they control their limbs? Something inside the tubemustcontrol things. People want to meet aliens...they are all around us. 

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Chitin is the material the exoskeleton is made of, see my above response to the confusion.

It seems they actually use a mixture of muscles and biochemical means. A rather interesting study is found here about it. Aliens though indeed, you should read about their 5 eyes or ear (I couldn't find a better link, as the most informative I've read are from books).

Thomas, enjoyed the links. Am amazed more and more by the complexity and talents of these little guys. Wish they lived longer. I know explosive breeders like mantids and tree frogs survive by reproducing in numbers so that individuals are expendible, but each individual i have known is sure memorable. We have 18 yr old pacific treefrogs and an 18 yr old plecostomus.  I wish with the best care we could keep the mantids alive longer and get to know them too as individuals for a long time. They are lovely, intelligent, personable, and very good at what they do, and definitely underrated by people. I hope Minty is around longer. I feel terrible for not giving him better humidity. Will get better habitats and a humidifier. 

@cwebster Me as well, they all seem to have personalities and traits (some learned) that really make them stand out years later even. The longest lived one I had was a Ghost (Phyllocrania paradoxa) female that lived 15 months, and member Precarious had a mantid that lived to 18 months (the longest lived I've ever heard that wasn't some random "tall tale" Facebook type post).

Very nice to hear you have some great treefrogs, and very long lived too - I had no idea about them. The oldest pet I have is black house cat named Smokey that we got as a stray kitten that wasn't quite even 2 months old, he actually turned 18 himself recently (we found/got him in 1998 right before I got married).

The shot lifespan of mantids is a drawback to be sure, and one reason I have been branching into other exotic pets too such as arachnids. They live 2 to 30+ years depending on species/individual (with some nearly reaching 40 years). At the moment I have five different species, and seventeen pet arachnids, which amazingly my family is at peace with as originally I could not have a single one.

Surprizing how well Mantids and Tarantulas coincide as pets . I have had them before and want to acquire more to go with my Mantis .

Serle said:

Surprizing how well Mantids and Tarantulas coincide as pets . I have had them before and want to acquire more to go with my Mantis .

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Well I say arachnids as my tarantula is just one of them. I also have Tigrosa helluo & Pardosa sp., Mastigoproctus giganteus, and Phidippus audax & Platycryptus Undatus.

I agree though they are great and use the same feeders, basic habitats, humidity, and such too.

Love the spider photos! We follow the outdoor orb weavers very closely around our house outside each year but have had no pet arachnids yet. Wolf spiders seem especially interesting, with their intelligence. Havent gotten tarantulas due to the urticating hairs. But would love to care for Florida whip spiders as they are reportedly docile and social. Rescued a brown and red house spider last week from a pholcus and thought about making him our first pet spider. Am constantly taking steatodas outside because they breed so fast and do bite sometimes, and there are black widows all over outside where we live. We just learn where they are and stay out of their way. 

Am impressed that you had mantises for 15 and 18 months. Awesome!

cwebster said:

Love the spider photos! We follow the outdoor orb weavers very closely around our house outside each year but have had no pet arachnids yet. Wolf spiders seem especially interesting, with their intelligence. Havent gotten tarantulas due to the urticating hairs. But would love to care for Florida whip spiders as they are reportedly docile and social. Rescued a brown and red house spider last week from a pholcus and thought about making him our first pet spider. Am constantly taking steatodas outside because they breed so fast and do bite sometimes, and there are black widows all over outside where we live. We just learn where they are and stay out of their way. 

Am impressed that you had mantises for 15 and 18 months. Awesome!

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Thanks

Orb weavers are great, and we have many around as well. I haven't kept one of those however, as they require lots of room for their web and many require just the right amount of humidity for their web to function properly (so I've read at Arachnoboards).

I found interesting enough the larger wolf spiders I have (Tigrosa helluo) actually dig tunnels/burrows which I've read they do not. I guess the ones I have never read that.

Same here the Florida whip spiders (Phrynus marginemaculatus) (interesting article) or the larger Damon diadema are my list to try. Speaking of house spiders it was my first "pet" arachnid. It set itself up under the bathroom sink and I put fruit flies into it's tiny web for many weeks, then one day it abandoned it's web and didn't return.

I haven't seen a black widow (Latrodectus sp.) thankfully in my area but they do exist, same with the brown recluse (Loxosceles reclusa). I treat all arachnids I find/catch as potentially venomous to avoid problems though. In that regard I don't handle my pet arachnids either as they do not enjoy it and only leads to possible escapes or their physical harm. Of course some still make a escape onto my hand when adding prey, especially the inquisitive jumping spiders (Phidippus audax, Platycryptus Undatus, and Salticus scenicus) who do seem to get some enjoyment running around my hands.

Yeah the older Ghost female mantid I lived 15 months, and seemed to keep going. She even ate the night before she passed away, although much slower than before and I suspected she was in her final days, and she died the following morning. The 18 month one was another member, Precarious.

CosbyArt said:

and member Precarious had a mantid that lived to 18 months (the longest lived I've ever heard that wasn't some random "tall tale" Facebook type post).

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Am very impressed that your Ghost mantis lived for 15 months. Not sure i could handle a loss though like that, she must have been a real member of the family by then. Minty seems so much more fragile since his molt into adulthood especially with his bad leg. Gave him some honey today. Since his last molt his wings and eyes are a bright green rather than tan, just like Honey Mantis. 

There are black widows in abundance here. Havent seen any brown recluses. Just the pesky steatodas everywhere...one was crawling on my arm earlier when i woke up on the sofa! I take them outside and let them go. They are so prolific, especially since there are a few tiny crickets who always get loose. I guess they think it is like a salad bar. The pholcuses have fascinating mating  and prey catching strategies but are cannibalistic and cant bite people. I love the wolf and jumping spiders due to their increased intelligence. As with frogs, i think spider species who move around and who are not sit and wait predators are smarter. 

Am hoping to find Florida whip spiders at some point in the next year for sale but want to get several because i hear they are social. Also will try to find some native walking sticks as i have seen them in this part of the state. Dont think they are as smart as the mantises though. Again, since they  just eat vegetation, they do not have to be as intelligent or fast as a creature who eats insects. But would like to learn about them. 

cwebster said:

Am very impressed that your Ghost mantis lived for 15 months. Not sure i could handle a loss though like that, she must have been a real member of the family by then. Minty seems so much more fragile since his molt into adulthood especially with his bad leg. Gave him some honey today. Since his last molt his wings and eyes are a bright green rather than tan, just like Honey Mantis. 

There are black widows in abundance here. Havent seen any brown recluses. Just the pesky steatodas everywhere...one was crawling on my arm earlier when i woke up on the sofa! I take them outside and let them go. They are so prolific, especially since there are a few tiny crickets who always get loose. I guess they think it is like a salad bar. The pholcuses have fascinating mating  and prey catching strategies but are cannibalistic and cant bite people. I love the wolf and jumping spiders due to their increased intelligence. As with frogs, i think spider species who move around and who are not sit and wait predators are smarter. 

Am hoping to find Florida whip spiders at some point in the next year for sale but want to get several because i hear they are social. Also will try to find some native walking sticks as i have seen them in this part of the state. Dont think they are as smart as the mantises though. Again, since they  just eat vegetation, they do not have to be as intelligent or fast as a creature who eats insects. But would like to learn about them. 

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Yeah my Ghost was always waiting for prey, or ready to come out and explore, and was a hard loss. Minty should learn to use his larger body and bad leg in time, usually in 1-2 weeks into adulthood there is a vast marked improvement of their condition/abilities.

Speaking of their eyes if you put him in a darkened room for an hour or so, than have a look at them they should appear much darker in color.

Sounds like you know the cause of the steatoda invasion, and thankfully don't bother you especial with them crawling around during a nap. Perhaps the Wolf and Jumping spiders are more intelligent, but either way at least are more active pets.

Peter offers both species on his website (although out of stock now), the Phrynus marginemaculatus and Damon diadema. If he is still out when you want to get some, send him a message and ask when he expects to get them back in stock.

Walking sticks are great, but from my limited experience they are like mindless drones (of course some individuals do stand out from others, and I imagine different species will vary). They will flee from water, act like a stick/dead when frightened, sit around barely moving most of the time, and such. When placed on a hand they will act like a stick/dead until they give up on the effort and continually try to flee until placed back into their habitat - often being so clumsy that they will easily fall repetitively during their attempt to flee.

For their redeeming qualities I will leave that up to you to discover.

Mintys eyes are bright green now but his wings are black for the most part. He seems old and  frail and have not seen him eat so offered him honey which he seemed to enjoy. Thank you for the link for whip spiders and for the observations about walking sticks. 

cwebster said:

Mintys eyes are bright green now but his wings are black for the most part. He seems old and  frail and have not seen him eat so offered him honey which he seemed to enjoy. Thank you for the link for whip spiders and for the observations about walking sticks. 

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He should be active and fresh from the recent molt, but might be adjusting. Feeding wise though males eat much less than females, especially as adults. The majority of my males tend to eat twice a week, and have gone 2 weeks before finally eating.

Keep an eye on him to ensure he is able to catch prey with his raptorial forearms, and eat properly. Sometimes with a molt issue there could be problems that are not easily visible, but will be from their eating. In the meantime the honey will keep his energy up.

Your welcome and have fun with any new pets you do get.