giant mantids possible?

[jrh3]

so i just read that the size of a insects body is determined by the amount of oxygen porportion in its habitat. so could over a few generations of oxygen controlled chamber habitat can we grow maybe a 8in long creo, lol. its pretty interesting to think about.

 

[Mime454]

It wouldn't be a few generations, it would be 1000's of generations. The higher oxygen concentration of the atmosphere millions of years ago allowed for bigger insects. When the concentration dropped, natural select favored smaller insects.

 

[Ranitomeya]

Although the maximum size of invertebrates is a result of natural selection over time due to changes in oxygen levels in the Earth's atmosphere, there are other factors that also affect the maximum size of a given species such as genetics. We can probably attain an 8 inch mantis without the aid of increased atmospheric oxygen through selectively breeding for size and thicker exoskeletal structure for support.

Now, if you wanted a mantis the size of a dog, an increase in atmospheric oxygen would most certainly be necessary due to the maximum diameter a tracheal tube can be in an insect and still retain structural integrity while having a thin enough membrane to maximize oxygen exchange.

If you REALLY wanted giant insects, you'd just need to somehow produce one that not only has an exoskeleton but some sort of endoskeletal structure to support the delicate structures inside at larger sizes.

 

[Domanating]

Heat is also important to for the existence of big invertebrates. The early earth was much warmer than today and that was heaven for bugs

 

[psyconiko]

Although the maximum size of invertebrates is a result of natural selection over time due to changes in oxygen levels in the Earth's atmosphere, there are other factors that also affect the maximum size of a given species such as genetics. We can probably attain an 8 inch mantis without the aid of increased atmospheric oxygen through selectively breeding for size and thicker exoskeletal structure for support.

Now, if you wanted a mantis the size of a dog, an increase in atmospheric oxygen would most certainly be necessary due to the maximum diameter a tracheal tube can be in an insect and still retain structural integrity while having a thin enough membrane to maximize oxygen exchange.

If you REALLY wanted giant insects, you'd just need to somehow produce one that not only has an exoskeleton but some sort of endoskeletal structure to support the delicate structures inside at larger sizes.

+1

supporting its own weight is the major issue.

 

[brancsikia339]

It would take years of oxygen absorption and unprecedented growth to get them to support their own weight. It would be incredible to have giant mantids, but it will be a while before that will happen. Plus, who knows, if giant mantids would turn on us just like in Jurassic park! :lol:

 

[jrh3]

yeah attackof the mantis, lol.

 

[agent A]

I wrote a story once where I had a huge tent with the air being 100% oxygen gas and I was rearing creos in it and they were getting huge

but not only would u need 100% oxygen, high heat and plenty of water (it must be very difficult to shed so much exoskeleton), you would need specially supplemented foods so the insect could make enough calcium to cover such a large body with exoskeletonal material as well as a sturdy enough surface to molt from (chitin has a molar mass of 203g, so an insect with only 1 mole of chitin in it would already weigh half a pound and if it was full of eggs and such likely much more)

the conditions needed to produce a large insect are highly hazardous (oxygen is flammable and look at the huge wildfires we get despite the air only being 21% oxygen) and likely very expensive and difficult to replicate

let's go for it

 

[jrh3]

alex I think you have been masterminding this for a while. Are you sure you don't have a giant tent in your backyard?, lol.

 

[brancsikia339]

We could all rent an industrial sized greenhouse, hmmmm... Now which species to make giant....

I VOTE GONGYS AND IDOLOS

 

[agent A]

alex I think you have been masterminding this for a while. Are you sure you don't have a giant tent in your backyard?, lol.

lol I read the word masterminding wrong for a sec, but yes I wrote the story in 7th grade and after my English teacher read it she called my mom and then my mom called a psychologist, but that's a story for another day :lol:

but can u imagine if someone got too close to this setup with an open flame? a huge explosion could result and in this world, u don't want to be responsible for explosions...

 

[Precarious]

I've found a reduction in gravity works best. Less oxygen is required for more work when growth occurs in negative Gs, as well as less structural support.

What no one in the scientific community wants to address is that the earth's gravity has increased over time. The giant insects and animals of millions of years ago could not exist under current gravitational conditions. You can't have a dragonfly with 30" wingspan today no matter how much oxygen you supply, and if you did it won't be able to fly. Neither could a 244 lb Argentavis magnificens with a 28' wingspan. Forget about a 550lb Quetzalcoatlus with 52' wingspan!

Dinosaurs could never support their weight under current conditions. That's why the larges animal today, the blue whale, can only exist with the help of water to support its bulk. A 100+ ton, 120' long Argentinosaurus wouldn't even be able to lift its head today.

Because of this I've only succeeded producing giant mantids (up to 6') in low earth orbit and then only because acceleration of gravity is cancelled by the centrifugal acceleration induced by the orbital speed. Unfortunately, the cost of maintaining Low Earth Orbit Station Precarious is exorbitant and my creatures cannot survive on the surface so only I get to enjoy them, but let me tell you, escaping a 6' mantid in zero G is not very enjoyable!

 

[shaneckc]

I've found a reduction in gravity works best. Less oxygen is required for more work when growth occurs in negative Gs, as well as less structural support.

What no one in the scientific community wants to address is that the earth's gravity has increased over time. The giant insects and animals of millions of years ago could not exist under current gravitational conditions. You can't have a dragonfly with 30" wingspan today no matter how much oxygen you supply, and if you did it won't be able to fly. Neither could a 244 lb Argentavis magnificens with a 28' wingspan. Forget about a 550lb Quetzalcoatlus with 52' wingspan!

Dinosaurs could never support their weight under current conditions. That's why the larges animal today, the blue whale, can only exist with the help of water to support its bulk. A 100+ ton, 120' long Argentinosaurus wouldn't even be able to lift its head today.

Because of this I've only succeeded producing giant mantids (up to 6') in low earth orbit and then only because acceleration of gravity is cancelled by the centrifugal acceleration induced by the orbital speed. Unfortunately, the cost of maintaining Low Earth Orbit Station Precarious is exorbitant and my creatures cannot survive on the surface so only I get to enjoy them, but let me tell you, escaping a 6' mantid in zero G is not very enjoyable!

Hahahaha!