Headless Popa spurca alive after five hours!

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Deacon

Deacon

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Ok now I'm creeped out a bit!  In my communal tank of two adult pairs of popas, the older male (3 wks) finally attempted to mate with the older female some time last night.  At 7 AM when I uncovered the tanks, Daisy had eaten Huey to his abdomen and he was still hanging on but not attached. I assumed he was dead and had not fallen off because he had a leg stuck under her short wings on one side (they are hanging from the lid). It's almost noon so I just tried to remove him but he's ALIVE and moved his legs to get a better grip!  OMG! I just took a peek to see if she had dumped him but he is connected now.  Mother Nature is something else! LOL

I've read on this forum that this can happen but I had no idea he would be alive after this many hours...how long will he "live" like this?

Here they are after disconnecting.

popas.jpg

 
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Well, he's alive and he isn't.  I can only surmise that some of the neurons needed to establish a proper footing reside outside the head.  He's probably a very agreeable mate, and a good listener.  ;)

 
That's funny!  Yesterday was the off day (she eats a large cricket or dubia every other day.)  Maybe she was getting hungry by the time he jumped her.  He's still on her back ten hours later from when I found them.  I figured she wouldn't want her meal this afternoon, but she took an adult cricket so guess he was just the appetizer...

If he doesn't leave her, will she finish him off?

 
Sad to say it was the idle hands are the devil's plaything here. When mating always offer the female a meal to keep her occupied, and with some females I've had to give them more feeders as they ate it rather quickly.

Hopefully he was successful head or not. With a few of my females even when I witnessed successful pairing/mating awhile back the ooths were infertile. So best of luck. :D

With the male he should eventually let go, or if not the female will turn him into a snack or simply brush him off when she tires of giving him a ride.

 
Thomas, I tried really hard to get her to take food yesterday because I noticed this male hanging around a wide perimeter. I still haven't figured out what a female "calling" looks like. And when I saw her at 7 AM he was already half gone so nothing I could do.  My four (three now) Popas are in a large communal aquarium heavy with twigs and for the most part they have avoided each other while they were all molting at separate times.  This female was the only adult when I put them together a month ago and she has already layed an ooth which I assume is infertile since both males were pretty young.  I'm really not planning on hatching any ooths yet (if I change my mind, I'd go for the Dbl Shields or Sphodromantids---love those females!)  I'm loving having all adult mantids for now.

 
Even with the best efforts, it still happens. ;)

Indeed adults seem to be "more fun" with no molting worries, able to take feeders of nearly any size, ability to fly, the larger flashy deimatic threats, breeding new generations, and such. I enjoy the nymphs too, but it's a feeling of accomplishment went they make it to adulthood. :D

 
He will probably still be "alive" in five days. I wouldn't worry so much about calling, if your females have been adult for a few weeks you can breed them. 

 
He was still on her back at midnight when I went to cover them up.  I mist all the aquariums in the evenings and when I did, the male tried yet again to connect with Daisy!  When he didn't manage that he got turned around and tried her head and shoulder (I gave her a big cricket which she demolished throughout his antics).  This morning they were in the same spot on the lid.  It's noon now and she has moved to the sticks near the ground and he's not on her so I thought she'd finished him off.  Nope, he's hanging in another twig a few inches from her.

Rick, really, five days?  Is he going to keep wandering as if whole?  Should I freeze him or let what happens happen?  I really can't wrap my brain around what is going on.  Without a head, is he feeling pain.  Do they have a brain?

And I was only asking about calling because I have three more adult females (different species) next to adult males.  I was just wondering what "calling" looks like.

About the remaining Popas: Daisy is 41 days, Doris is 15 days, and Louie is 9 days old.  Being so young, will Louie avoid these females if they are calling? I have a spot I could remove him to but I think the whole idea of my communal tank was to watch life happen naturally.  I'm not looking for a fertile ooth from this species although they have been more fun watching them living together.

 
He's still crawling around on the twigs without his upper half.  I'm going to be forced to look into this insects' nerve system.  We are all agog in this family.

 
Who knows maybe the headless mantid will successfully breed with her again?

In the end though it will starve to death without it's head. It's very odd and doing some digging it seems a cockroach can go headless for up to a year. If your curious here are some links about insects without their heads including the how/why...

 
Thomas, I enjoyed every one of the articles you dug up for me.  Explains a lot.  However, I don't think he can "find" her now as he can't smell her pheromones anymore without his head, right?  Or if they breath like a cockroach, do they pick up scents in all those pores too?

I noticed tonight that he responded to being misted---moved his feet and wagged his abdomen back and forth.  

None of the articles talked about pain though.  I hope he isn't feeling any because now it is just interesting watching what will happen next.

Thanks again for the articles.  The Vsauce one---that guy is very interesting--I almost got hooked turning on all his other UTube videos on other topics!  Not tonight...

 
Deacon said:
Thomas, I enjoyed every one of the articles you dug up for me.  Explains a lot.  However, I don't think he can "find" her now as he can't smell her pheromones anymore without his head, right?  Or if they breath like a cockroach, do they pick up scents in all those pores too?

I noticed tonight that he responded to being misted---moved his feet and wagged his abdomen back and forth.  

None of the articles talked about pain though.  I hope he isn't feeling any because now it is just interesting watching what will happen next.

Thanks again for the articles.  The Vsauce one---that guy is very interesting--I almost got hooked turning on all his other UTube videos on other topics!  Not tonight...
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I can't say for sure; however, as they hear from their sound organ maybe they can still accurately find and position themselves without a head - honestly I don't know. Perhaps if would be worthwhile to pickup the male with a stick/dowel rod/whatever and re-position him on the female, that way if he could he would mate again.

It is rather strange the amount they can do without a head, disturbing but fascinating too. Your welcome for the links. They were from a quick look, and several such as book references from the Google book previews don't allow link copy (it doesn't load) so there are many other things to read on the topic too if you do a search.

 
Thomas,

Positioning this half/male would simply be for the curiosity at this point since I'm not looking for a fertile ooth as raising a hoard of nymphs is out of my range right now.  If I change my mind, I do have a younger pair of Popas (at least Daisy hasn't gotten to him yet)!

I had forgotten that the sound organ is located between the legs.  Really fascinating watching these insects

 
Deacon said:
Thomas,

Positioning this half/male would simply be for the curiosity at this point since I'm not looking for a fertile ooth as raising a hoard of nymphs is out of my range right now.  If I change my mind, I do have a younger pair of Popas (at least Daisy hasn't gotten to him yet)!

I had forgotten that the sound organ is located between the legs.  Really fascinating watching these insects
Click to expand...
Yeah I guess it would be curiosity either way. Nah, raising nymphs is half the fun. :D

Well best of luck if you decide to try breeding the younger pair.

 
Thanks, Thomas.  I mis-spoke.  I like nymphs, too.  I just think an oothful of them is beyond me.  Plus that would mean all those little containers again after I finally got everyone into aquarium sections which I am really enjoying! 

 
Well, too late as the isopods have found Huey today and he is rigid so I will leave his remains for them.  He gave it a good try though. :angel:   

 
I must have a mean female Popa spurca.  Louie (23 days and starting to follow the females) must have gotten too close and now has a raptorial arm that is a 1/4 inch stub.

 

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