Roaches

[DefyTheNorms]

I probably should have thought of this before getting into mantids, but can they thrive on flies, meal/max worms, and a few crickets? I have an irrational fear of roaches, so I don't know if it's something I'll be able to "keep" let alone handle - even with 10" feeding tongs!

 

[Connor]

No mantis don’t necessarily need roaches. But it’s a lot easier and healthier to feed adult females with them

 

[DefyTheNorms]

No mantis don’t necessarily need roaches. But it’s a lot easier and healthier to feed adult females with them

Maybe I'll start with trying a few of the smaller species. I did see one of the mantis sites selling Banana roaches (green ones), for some reason they don't trigger my phobia like the brown ones. Maybe I could try those, but not sure how big they are (ideal size for large adult mantids).

 

[Connor]

I use dubias.... I’m not a fan of roaches but it’s not like I try and look at them... I just take one out with tweezers and try and get the mantis to eat it!

 

[Aristalochia]

Banana roaches aka Panchlora nivea are cute ones and adults are under an inch. Theres also a species being called 'giant banana roach' that gets over an inch. They are fast and move erraticly, plus they like to fly, so they are great feeders for mantids. 

 

[CosbyArt]

@DefyTheNorms You have reached the cricket or roach feeder stage, and it seems people are one or the other.

Just so you know even the Green Banana Roach (Panchlora nivea ) looks like a typical roach, only the adult roaches are green but they are also strong fliers. Their nymphs look nothing like the adults in color and look (without the wings), see here.

For other common roach species that are considered good feeders, see smaller species and larger species. As you are in Florida though your roach options are much more limited, from Florida state laws on roaches. One of which seems you are not allowed to own are the Dubia (the most common of all feeder roaches). See here for a starting point on roaches and Florida with links. Also sellers will usually list the species are not available to Florida residents, like the Dubia here.

I've seen several claim roaches breed faster than crickets, but I'm guessing they never have successfully kept crickets. From hatching crickets take 5 weeks to start laying eggs, Dubia and others take 10 weeks - both take longer if kept below 80F+ temperatures.

Other things such as smell (caused by dead crickets, remove dead ones part of their husbandry care anyway), nutrition (really only useful in reptiles that require calcium, then dusting crickets defeats that argument), and more are given reasons for why roaches are "better". It boils down to what you feel more comfortable with and prefer (and can legally keep in Florida), as nearly all reasons are not valid or have a solution why one feeder is better than the other.

See here for a list of reasons why Dubia are "better" than crickets from a biased Dubia seller, but again it is a species you can not have in Florida legally. If you are interested in keeping roaches, I'd suggest you check out our sister forum AllPet Roaches Forum for tips, help, and more. If you want to know more about crickets, breeding them, etc. take a look here, and feel free to ask (as I have self-sustaining colonies of feeder crickets with little effort).

 

[DefyTheNorms]

@CosbyArt  Ugh roaches  :wacko:    I tired to convince myself that the green ones would be better lol. Thanks for the heads up on roaches & the FL law. I didn't even think of that. As always you are wealth of information. I can do crickets, but I thought I read that feeding crickets too often can problems with the mantids? 

 

[CosbyArt]

@CosbyArt  Ugh roaches  :wacko:    I tired to convince myself that the green ones would be better lol. Thanks for the heads up on roaches & the FL law. I didn't even think of that. As always you are wealth of information. I can do crickets, but I thought I was read that feeding crickets too often can problems with the mantids? 

I did too with the Banana roaches, thinking I could sneak them into my house without my wife knowing (she will not have roaches in the house). After I looked more into them I quickly realized it was a bad idea.

Roaches in Florida is likely the only time I have seen firsthand evidence of someone being arrested for insects, and the person was given two felony charges and a first-degree misdemeanor . See here for the news article.

Crickets get a bad rap as they are so commonly available, and usually not properly cared for as it is cheaper to replace dead crickets than to care for them. Crickets usually cost $0.01-$0.12 each depending on seller/quantity, with larger stores able to buy stock at prices of several for a single penny. Due to crickets much larger use (and mistreatment) than roaches, more "horror" stories are found online. I know the dozen or so pet stores (local and chain stores) I've visited not a single one sold roaches, but all sold crickets. I mention that merely as the amount of people feeding crickets vs roaches must be ridiculously huge.

One issue to the bad cricket stories, is no mantids or crickets are expertly examined or tested (bacteria culture, autopsy, etc.) to reveal the cause of any death/illness, with the most obvious blame placed on the cricket feeder. In most instances it can safely be assumed husbandry care with the mantid, or the cricket itself, was the actual cause with the cricket stories. I say that because even if the cricket was the means of death/illness that is likely due to the husbandry care the cricket received to develop the issue.

Crickets are also farm-raised for human consumption (roaches are not, which says something), and toted by many as the food that may end world food shortage and hunger, see NewYorkPost, CBC (Canada), and the DailyMail.UK for just a few aspects. I mention that as many people and stories online claim crickets are dirtier than roaches with bacteria, disease, and other concerns.

In feeding mantids many keepers have used crickets for years without incident (or possibly few, as will happen with anything). I have used them myself for over three years now to feed hundreds of mantids I've kept (not counting the many thousands of mantids I've raised then released or sold) with only one instance did I blame a cricket, and honestly I highly doubt it was the cause.

Most keepers in the exotic pet hobby have used crickets for many years as well without issue, as I have heard and read from several; however, finding a forum post is nearly impossible it seems after 30+ minutes. I did though find this one...

 

[DefyTheNorms]

Roaches in Florida is likely the only time I have seen firsthand evidence of someone being arrested for insects, and the person was given two felony charges and a first-degree misdemeanor

Wow! Definitely won't risk it    

I'm not too keen on having roaches in the house anyhow. Being in Florida, there are so many bugs and we occasionally get HUGE roaches in the house and that's more than enough for me! So with that being said, it's settled - no feeder roaches! I will find a good source to purchase crickets and maybe learn to raise my own (as long as I don't start thinking of them as pets LOL)... I'm looking at the stable flies that just hatched out and as I'm watching them eat & drink, I see them sit on the side of the dish washing their faces and I'm thinking "N'aww they're kinda cute!"... then I feel bad for them when I feed the mantids. LOL I'm weird like that.

 

[CosbyArt]

Wow! Definitely won't risk it    

There is more to the story than just roaches. That is he forged a permit and such as explained in the news article; however, the state actively searches for such things that get shipped for good reason.

I'm not too keen on having roaches in the house anyhow. Being in Florida, there are so many bugs and we occasionally get HUGE roaches in the house and that's more than enough for me! So with that being said, it's settled - no feeder roaches! I will find a good source to purchase crickets and maybe learn to raise my own (as long as I don't start thinking of them as pets LOL)... I'm already looking at the stable flies that just hatched out and as I'm watching them eat & drink, I see them sit on the side of the dish washing their faces and i'm thinking "N'aww they're kinda cute! - then I feel bad for them when I feed the mantids. LOL I'm weird.

It is your decision. I just provided the counter-point as such much data online is pro roach, and honestly I couldn't find a worthwhile article pro cricket to link to. Just weight the options of each and make your decision, but it seems the ick factor is a good one by itself for many. Of course, if you change your mind you could always try roaches later on too.

A great seller for crickets I deal with is Ghann's cricket farm. For most things though, properly caring for crickets bought at pet stores can be fine too. If the crickets are allowed to drink/eat/live in your care for at least 2-3 days (to flush their systems).

Incidentally my local pet store claims the cricket farm they buy from tests some crickets from each batch to ensure they are disease, parasite, bacterial, etc free. I honestly find that hard to believe, or that it has any bearing after their transport, store care, etc when I get and use them.

Yes, I look at my crickets as pets anymore, and even listed them awhile back as you may remember. Even with feeding my other pets their fill, I'd guess 90% or more of my crickets live a long normal life-cycle and die from old age. There is just no way I could have enough pets to use that many.

If you have any questions on proper care, breeding, or whatever on crickets just ask. I haven't had a chance to put together a cricket tutorial yet to give you a link to.

 

[DefyTheNorms]

Yes, I look at my crickets as pets anymore, and even listed them awhile back as you may remember.

Yes, I remember that - I thought it sounded like something I'd do    - I kinda have a fondness for crickets.  

Thanks for the link, and I'll definitely hit you up for more cricket "how tos" when the time comes. 

 

[CosbyArt]

@DefyTheNorms Yes it happens, and so far the only feeder I would call a pet - that is besides my springtails and isopods which are primarily for cleaning duties beyond pets. Keeping exotic pets to start with gives a new perspective on other insects too.

There are other crickets you can also get often sold as pets, or locally often labelled as "pests". Such as the Jerusalem cricket, mole cricket, and camel cricket to name a few.

Your welcome, and sounds good - I'm always ready to type too much, which I blame on my enthusiasm.

 

[DefyTheNorms]

besides my springtails and isopods which are primarily for cleaning duties beyond pets.

Oh! That's something else I wanna do - add springtails to the terrariums. I've been reading up on it, and had a bit of a discussion about it on one of my previous posts. I'm totally looking at all insects in a totally different light now lol. 

BTW, I like to reading so enthusiastically type as much as you want  

 

 

[CosbyArt]

@DefyTheNorms Springtails are easy enough, see here. The main things are they need substrate, a bit of dampness, and will eat seemingly about anything dead or inanimate.

Always good to see there is someone else who loves to read topics of interest.

 

[DefyTheNorms]

If you have any questions on proper care, breeding, or whatever on crickets just ask.

So, I've been feeding crickets to my mantids... I've decided not to raise them, because I just don't have enough mantids to make it worth my while. I just pick up what I need for a couple of weeks from the local pet shop. I'm just unsure on what is best way to keep them (as far as housing & food)? Right now I put them in a small container with a water soaked sponge and bits of apple. The only issue is how the heck do you serve them up? I lose more than are given to the mantids!  As soon as I open the container they all start jumping out lol. I gave up on trying to catch them with forceps/tweezers. It's not only hard, but I end up losing them on the way to transfer them to the enclosure, so now I just catch them with my hand! I usually get so frustrated with them that I let them go outside (set some free today) I'm about to call it quits with them lol. 

Then getting my mantids to eat them, is the other issue. only 2 of my 5 will chase them down. The others totally ignore them. I tried hand feeding the crickets to them, but the mantids freak out :/ They seem to prefer flying things. I just don't know if blue bottle flies & the occasional meal worm can sustain them their entire lives. 

 

[Serle]

I just buy my crickets 50 at a time , my mantid population doesn't warrant raising them . 

 

[DefyTheNorms]

I just buy my crickets 50 at a time , my mantid population doesn't warrant raising them . 

That's what I've been doing, buying a few at a time. I'd buy more  at once, but I wasn't sure the best way to keep them fed & healthy. How do you get them from their container to the mantis without them getting away? If I collected all the crickets I lost in the house I'd have enough to feed 5 mantis for a year, I swear!  :lol:

 

[Serle]

Give me some time , I will show how to handle crickets with minimal loss........ S

 

[Krissim Klaw]

So, I've been feeding crickets to my mantids... I've decided not to raise them, because I just don't have enough mantids to make it worth my while. I just pick up what I need for a couple of weeks from the local pet shop. I'm just unsure on what is best way to keep them (as far as housing & food)? Right now I put them in a small container with a water soaked sponge and bits of apple. The only issue is how the heck do you serve them up? I lose more than are given to the mantids!  As soon as I open the container they all start jumping out lol. I gave up on trying to catch them with forceps/tweezers. It's not only hard, but I end up losing them on the way to transfer them to the enclosure, so now I just catch them with my hand! I usually get so frustrated with them that I let them go outside (set some free today) I'm about to call it quits with them lol.

The first thing I would suggest is getting a larger cage. Either something like a ten/five gallon tank with proper wall height or you can cheaply modify a sterilite container. Having something with enough height makes it so much easier to reach in and do stuff because you don't have to worry about the crickets hoping out in mass. As for catching if you are trying to transfer to another cage I find something like a little Dixie cup can work wonders. Just scoop the cricket up, hold your hand over the top so it can't jump out and then dump it into the cage. With a little patience you can even teach your mantises to snag their food right out of the cups. I have large mantis cages so I drop my feeders in the cups and hold them up to my mantises. Typically reach down and snatch the prey up with little fuss.