Violin COMMUNAL?

My male violin just struck the female in a threat display they both fell from the roof of the cage and started fighting! I seperated them quickly no each has there own cage! I guess the mantid's cannibalistic instict will always be within them! But still I thought it was kind of interesting. But I will still call this species communal. No pictures sorry. I was freaking out when they were fighting and didnt think about taking one

They are all ok! No inguries, just a little shaken up!

Mine were very cannabalistic when I had them, they can be very mean

Id say keep them separate especially since u only have 2 of them...

yup they arnt always nice to neighbors. my ghosts and idolos knock each other down every once in a while.

I have not done the communal thing yet, the the concensus seems to be Ghost & Gongys are "more" communal than other species.

if one is raising one or two ooths worth they can be kept together IF well fed AND some losses can be tolerated. However prudence dictates seperation if just rearing a handfull the the intent to reach adulthood & breed.

Additionally seperating males & females as sub adults or even pre-sub will reduce mortality in large colonies to better preserve breeding stock.

I know as soon as I write this there are going to be a score of members who will concur with Alex and others who have written before me in this thread. I am just going to say that I had some beautiful adult Gongy females together in a medium sized Monarch net cage and they got along beautifully. I did not keep males in with females, nor were there other species with these. I have seen with my own eyes one of the most experienced breeders on the Forum, especially with this species raising them communally. If you loose one or two in the effort you will always think that this species should be kept solo. I am convinced that if you can... do that.

i only have 2 so I cant offord to lose any

Never say always. Someone will prove you wrong soon enough

With "communal" species I think same sex groups are a safer bet than mixed gender

Were these adults?

I never had any issues keeping this species together but adults are not kept together. I am also a firm believer that no mantis is truly communal. They're opportunistic carnivores.

I think they are L5 or L6

When I had Gongy they did not do well as adults together unless they were separated by sex even then it was no cake walk, L1-L7 were fine in the same enclosure, adult males were passive also but the females were aggressive even with each other. But Idolo's on the other hand may grab a molting sibling from L3-L8 once in a blue moon, but once adult they never touched one another ever(not once did I lose a male as a snack) which is the polar opposite, kind of strange?

Rick said:

Were these adults?

I never had any issues keeping this species together but adults are not kept together. I am also a firm believer that no mantis is truly communal. They're opportunistic carnivores.

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+1. I love, love, love communal setups! And Gongy's were a great choice FOR a communal setup (and ghosts). I thought the rare care of friendly fire was considered an acceptable loss for the greater prize of a beautiful display (no modesty here).

As mentioned by others, adult females are the worst offenders. But keeping them well fed will seriously minimize your risks

Good to know. Once they molt to adult you got to split them up

If the adult females are kept together and there is an abundance of space for each and BBs flying and walking around to pick off, they have been fine in my limited experience. As Rick said they are "opportunistic carnivores". I used to have to shoot a few ground squirrels when building a rural road and they are each other at times. Not that that has a lot to do with mantids, but the idea here is that we think we know the habits of an species and they will defy our knowledge at times.

For me, when I have a big colony of adult females, I can afford the risks of occasional losses. I think the average for my creos was something like 4 full ooths per female. So it wasn't like I wouldn't get a new generation. And with a good size colony, you can't even GIVE them away fast enough! Of course, if you DO get too many, please consider donating them to the Forum Support incentives, before putting them in the freezer (contact one of the administrators).

A relatively small colony of Creos created all these when I wasn't looking. Seriously - when you get the elements right, it's truly explosive growth!

And that's why I love creos

If they weren't so awesome they'd make a great feeder insect...

Hahahah!

I don't know if I posted this before, but they are SOOOO going to fight that classification!

(Not for the squeamish).

Here's a pic of a female Creo EATING and ADULT Idolo!!! No kidding!

She got the Idolo as it was drying it's wings. C-c-c-crazy!! Now that's bad*ss!

All the more reason to get a creo

I had a loose subadult creo and a loose adult male hierodula membranacea in my room and the creo ate the hierodulas left eye before I found them fighting and split them up

Btw wat is a creo doing in an idolo cage???

Hahah! I'm a sucker for a challenge.

I put all my non-mated Creos in with my Idolos to (A) eat off all the extra flies, ( B) save shelf space for more Idolo cages and © prove that Idolos wouldn't attack the creo females, since it was unlikely they'd flap their wings (males on the other hand DO make decent Idolo feeders - take the air and kiss it good bye!). I was pretty sure I didn't need to worry about them taking out an adult Idolo. Iiiiiiiiiiiiiii know better noooooooow.....!

I've done similar "stunts" for years. Gongy's and Ghosts and Boxers all peacefully co-existed without incident (or significant incident). Hetercheros (sp?) and Brunners did fairly well with the Idolos, but menaced anything smaller (or, with brunners, other brunners - they are SO not communal). I even had adult female Orchids in with the Idolos - without friendly fire.

Even local boys (stagmantis?) in with the big ladies. On that front, there were... ahem... the odd incidents....



Two Notes:

One, this is an old photo. The screen at the top in ALL my enclosures has been enhanced with mesh. Screen breaks tarsus. It's weird for me to even look at this photo now.

Two, almost all the local boys mounted the Gongys' (about 6 or 7 that year). But, the ladies won in the end. When the boys fluttered their wings, or dared to fly, they got CHOMPED!!! Every one of them ended up as scraps in the bottom of the cage!