Help Me ID WC Mantis

Ran across this little guy (Actually think it's a female} on top of a trash can on my way to the bus stop today / In Long Beach CA

Know it's not a Chinese Carolina or European
Thinking "S. Californica" or don't think so but possibly a Border???
IDK

What Thinks You???

Thanx
&
Happy Holidays

i would say M.religiosa

agent A said:

i would say M.religiosa

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Lol your kidding right? Defo not a European.. Iris oratoria?

looks like Miomantis caffra

xiaoyu said:

looks like Miomantis caffra

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In California.. Are those found in the u.s?

This is neither californica, iris, limbata, european, or chinese. It's some exotic mantid. I hope it's someones lost pet and not a soon-to-be-naturalized species.

Ntsees said:

This is neither californica, iris, limbata, european, or chinese. It's some exotic mantid. I hope it's someones lost pet and not a soon-to-be-naturalized species.

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Yeah it does look small.. Any idea to what species?

Oxyopsis gracilis?

I'm at a loss

It doesn't look like any of the common sp. you'd see around here

???

Extrememantid said:

Yeah it does look small.. Any idea to what species?

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I have no idea what species it is since I'm more specialized in the common mantids found in the U.S. The mantid looks like it's a species from the tropics or some other place in the world.

Ntsees said:

I have no idea what species it is since I'm more specialized in the common mantids found in the U.S. The mantid looks like it's a species from the tropics or some other place in the world.

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Oh ok.. So no chance it's a runt iris or stagmomantis?

Where was it found? I assume the location under your name but you didn't mention it. Looks like Stagmomantis spp. Put up some more pictures of it from all angles including the flying wings.

Ntsees said:

This is neither californica, iris, limbata, european, or chinese. It's some exotic mantid. I hope it's someones lost pet and not a soon-to-be-naturalized species.

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There is no reason for you to make such harmful claims with zero evidence. It does look rather strange for a Stagmomantis because of the large wings but wings are variable and there are no real identifiable features seen here. Wait till there is more evidence instead of jumping to conclusions and trying to start a harmful urban legend.

Rick said:

Where was it found? I assume the location under your name but you didn't mention it. Looks like Stagmomantis spp. Put up some more pictures of it from all angles including the flying wings.

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He said in long beach CA.. On a garbage can..

Here be some more pics

Couldn't get her to flare her wings for the camera / It is a female right??? / 5 Segments
But didn't notice any tell tail wing markings

The only markings that I see that may possibly help with ID
Is the Yellow Strip between the eye & mouth???

Maybe I'll get lucky & she got some & will lay me a good ooth

Orin said:

There is no reason for you to make such harmful claims with zero evidence. It does look rather strange for a Stagmomantis because of the large wings but wings are variable and there are no real identifiable features seen here. Wait till there is more evidence instead of jumping to conclusions and trying to start a harmful urban legend.

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My comments are based on what I observe. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. I'm more familiar with the common native/naturalized U.S. mantids and so it would be a delight if it was a rare/un-noticed Stagmomantis native to the U.S. (assuming DETHCHEEZ is from Long Beach) that I've not seen. As for the "harmful urban legend" thing, I really do hope it's not an exotic species, but IF it is, we can't close a blind eye and ignore it. Of course we might not be able to do anything about it, but at least we can encourage best management practices for mantid hobbyists to prevent such a thing from happening.

Yes, that's a female. And to me, it appears to be some sort of stagmomantis. Could you gently lift her wings to get a picture of her underwing? That would help a lot.

Ntsees said:

(assuming DETHCHEEZ is from Long Beach)

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Why would I lie about where I was from???

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Getting ready to go out of town for a week
So probably wont be posting any more pics till I get back
Unless I can get a quick wing shot in the next few

Was thinking Not at 1st 'cause I'm coastal
But now pretty much thinking Stagmomantis Limbata / Bordered Mantis now
Going by the small White Marks on the outer wings ???

Thanx For Helping Out
&
Happy Holidays

I was getting excited that this could be another U.S. Stagmomantis spp., so I had to find out the best I could. Here goes nothing. (sorry, I'm horrible at uploading pictures)

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?app=galleryℑ=5084

The wing veination above resembles the below picture found from the site (http://www.treknature.com/gallery/Oceania/New_Zealand/photo44449.htm). The only thing is that in the below picture, the spots on the forelegs is black.

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?app=galleryℑ=5085

In DETHCHEEZ picture, the spots are brownish/goldenish (below).

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?app=galleryℑ=5086

But in this other link (http://everygenusofmantid.deviantart.com/gallery/39992856), the spots are also brownish/goldenish.

http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?app=galleryℑ=5087

Based on what I can gather, the sources lead to the possible species Miomantis 'johannesburg' caffra. I'm no expert, but perhaps this finding will lead to the true identity of DETHCHEEZ's mantid. What do you guys think?

(edit: if it is caffra, credit goes to xiaoyu for getting it first)