A Mantis I've found

[Precarious]

Make sure he can climb upside down for molting...

Take note, FendersRule, this was the first response to your post and you ignored the advice.

Good thing I had a twig in there. She was able to latch unto the twig while I raised it out of the cage. I've got it sitting on top of the cage now. She's on it, and hanging upside down. I was able to get her in the right position!

The twig was the only thing in there she could grip well enough to molt from. Too bad she was in the "right position" after she'd already mismolted.

I'm not picking on you. I'm letting you know what you did wrong so it doesn't happen again. You obviously knew she liked to hang upside-down. You were told she needs to hang upsid-down to molt. How can she hang upside down if she can't climb the smooth plastic sides?

 

[Precarious]

Consider this thread closed from my perspective. Sorry for contributing. It's not like you know, I'd have feelings too about this.

Yes, run away. And throw that "gross" mantis in the woods so you can hide your mistakes.

Thanks for contributing.

 

[FendersRule]

Take note, FendersRule, this was the first response to your post and you ignored the advice.

And she had multiple vertical twigs in there, to which she could have used them if she wanted too. The FACT is, she spent 100% of her time hanging upside down on the plastic grates for the past two weeks. How could I have not known that it wasn't good enough, since that's what she's been doing?

I'm not picking on you. I'm letting you know what you did wrong so it doesn't happen again. You obviously knew she liked to hang upside-down. You were told she needs to hang upsid-down to molt. How can she hang upside down if she can't climb the smooth plastic sides?

If she's having to climb the case, then it's already too late. I was told that she needs to hang upside down to molt, which is what she presumably did, and how she spent all of her time. She basically lived on the roof of the case/cage. I guess, mantids cannot molt hanging on the plastic grates. This is the first I've learned of that. Too bad this information is like, nowhere.

I guess it's all my fault, and I'm a terrible person.

 

[Precarious]

...Too bad this information is like, nowhere.

I guess it's all my fault, and I'm a terrible person.

There is a whole section here on Enclosures and Housing. You could have found this information there.

You're not a terrible person. You screwed up. We all do. Just do the right thing instead of running away from it. You said a few things that make you sound bad, but you obviously love animals. We're here to help you take better care of them.

Message me directly with any questions. I'll tell you everything you need to know. OK?

 

[patrickfraser]

SHAME ON YOU!

 

[ShieldMantid1997]

I believe it is wrong to rid of a deformed animal when it was your responsibility. But at least you have seen your wrong. I have a violin who has a bad whole leg and its still a fun pet? I hope you keep her she really is a beauty. If you don't for whatever reason I'm sure someone on here would take her. And i hope you took up Precarious' offer as he really knows a lot and could really help you.

 

[Ntsees]

You guys are responding to FendersRule as "dude" and "man up". By the writing, I somehow get the expression that FendersRule is a woman.

Also, to comment on the cage that was used, I've had no problem just using this cage type alone with no sticks inside. All my mantids came out perfect in every case. Important ---> What I do is that I just place the cage upright on the width side (the glass width). That gives a lot of height and the mantid can climb up and down using the lid cover.

 

[FendersRule]

I just rebuilt my habitat. I've wedged two sticks to the ceiling, and provided a fat ramp stick. This specific cage will house an L6 Popa Spurca (I have another for the other mantis).

I don't know what else I can do to assure that this doesn't happen again. Again, this was news to me that the mantids cannot use the plastic grate for molding. I've done quite a bit of research on this, and I haven't read anywhere that plastic grating = deformed mantis. This should be stickied on the forum.

A little update on my mantid: Upon pulling the exoskeleton off her leg (which took some effort), I found that her foot was actually damaged (bent backwards). She also has a deformed arm, along with her wings. Hopefully, I've fixed what caused this so that this won't happen next time around.

 

[FendersRule]

How can it be gauranteed that the Mantid still won't use the plastic grating with those added twigs? Or would it somehow still be my fault.

 

[d17oug18]

You all sound really mean... Honestly... This is not how you should be posting to a new comer... Read what your typing and rewrite to make it sound nicer. Ive visited plenty of forums where people treated me like this and i never came again, make it educational while also making her want to read the forums past posts...

By the by fender, i saw you had cheese clothe, line the top with that instead of the sticks. That would work infinitely better than 2 sticks but make it ridiculously hard to feed lol.

 

[lancaster1313]

There are definitely ways to make a critter keeper work.

You can hot glue a piece of screen, some false plant material, or nylon mesh, into the top. You could also drape a piece of screen or mesh over the open container, then pop the lid on with the screen under it. Not the prettiest, but it can work.

Btw, I have had mantids that have molted fine off plastic, and some that couldn't grip it at all. Different species have different gripping abilities. I still like to rough up parts of the containers(to make a texture) or fasten something to climb on, just in case.

Please have a look at Precarious' topic : "Enclosures and Housing: The Basics" there are some practical ideas there, that may cost less than a critter keeper that needs to be modified.

 

[FendersRule]

Taking some sandpaper to the top of the plastic grate could be a really good idea. Approve?

I can also super glue lots of vinyl fake leaves that I have.

 

[Precarious]

I put this thread together to help everybody out...

Enclosures and Housing: The Basics

I should have included a part dedicated to critter keepers since they are the most readily available housing. You can make them work but they are not very good for mantids for a number of reasons. For instance, many mantids prefer blue bottle flies and they can get right through the top grate. Plus mantids hang from the top and the roof is concave which doesn't make for the best viewing. That being said it's easy enough to secure screen or mesh to the grate as likebugs and d17oug18 suggested.

As your keeper is set up now mantids will still try to molt from the plastic grate, and I don't think it is high enough for Popas to molt in. You'll have to judge that for yourself. Enclosure should be at least 2x to 3x as high as the mantis is long. Maybe go upright as Ntsees suggests.

It can be confusing dealing with molts because what a mantis can grip under normal circumstances may be too slick during molt. The best way to look at it is the tiny hooks on their feet have to have texture to catch hold of. Or they are forces to hook their foot around the object which is much less secure and more likely to come loose as they struggle out of the old skin.

 

[FendersRule]

If Popas get 4-5" long, then I should have a 10 - 15" container. This container is probably 10" high. It sounds like I should get a new enclosure to be on the safe side? Can slightly larger ones be found at any given pet store? Standard size aquariums are about 10 bucks, which may be a good idea, but I also don't want it to be too big, which I would think a 10 gallon aquarium is much to big for a praying mantis. I would suppose metal screen/mesh can be found at any given pet store, correct? (I checked your cool thread )

I typically don't feed mantids by hand. My female sometimes will go after the insect right after I've dropped it in. Sometimes, she'll sit and wait for it to fly over to her and eat it. When she was a sub adult, I typically fed her one bug a day. With the L7 Popa arrives, I probably will plan on feeding it once a day. I have no problem buying bugs from a store, but I MUCH prefer going outside and finding them myself. I live in a location where I can walk outside, and can have something to feed my mantid in less than 3 minutes. Many times, it's moths, small butterflies, common spiders, houseflies, ladybugs, beetles, etc. I suppose the rule of thumb is still the same for the popa- feed it anything it can comfortably grab?

Molting still has be worried as heck. If I drop in a bug, and come back after 12 hours...and the bug is still in there...should I take it out? I've heard that leaving bugs in the case can cause the mantis stress if it's molting.

I'll plan on either gluing wire mesh to my current grating, or buying a hole new setup with a wire grated top.

According to the Wiki, Popas get "UP" to 3" long.

 

[Precarious]

A 10 gallon tank is more space than one Popa can really make use of. I would guess 10" should be high enough provided they molt from the highest point. Some screen or twigs up there will encourage them. If you see them hanging more on lower branches you should rethink their enclosure.

I bought a roll of screen at the hardware store. It's way more than you will use right now, but it's good to keep around if you are getting into mantids. You'll probably find a lot of use for it.

You only have to worry about insects that can hurt your mantis while it's soft from molt. Crickets are the biggest danger. They've been known to eat them during molt. That's why it's good to take notice when a mantis stops eating to prepare for molt. Remove crickets before a molt if possible.

I think wild insects are the best. They have a more varied diet than captive bred, and they're FREE!

Just be careful with spiders and try to avoid the helpful insects like ladybugs. Just a suggestion. I never feed mine honey bees either.

 

[Ntsees]

How can it be gauranteed that the Mantid still won't use the plastic grating with those added twigs? Or would it somehow still be my fault.

There's a very high probability that it'll still use the plastic grate. Somehow, it's just in the nature of mantids to want to get to the highest spot possible in a caged environment. With the setup, it'll be able to move from bottom to top and vice versa more easily.

 

[FendersRule]

Great information!

I'll stop by the hardware store and get some mesh. I suppose superglue + mesh + plastic should do the trick. If the Wiki is true (that Popas don't get over 3") then I would think my current habitat is just fine.

It seems to be quite hard to notice when a mantid stops eating. How long do you give yours until you've realized that they've stopped eating? 12 hours seems to be what I go by (if I drop a bug in the evening, and come back the next morning and if the bug is still in there, then I can usually assume that the mantid is preparing for a mold).

Ever feed a mantis a dragon fly? Toughest part is trying to catch one of those. Damn, they are fast.

Spiders I usually just play by ear. Typically, every single one I've found has been small enough to fed to the mantis without any worry. Check out the spider I fed mine on page 1. It's amazing how easy Mantids catch spiders and completely crush them. Spiders have literally no chance with Mantids (unless you are irresponsible and feed them something 2x + their size). I usually stay away from wasps and bees, even though I have many wasps outside of my place now. I tried putting in a wasp with the mantis one day, and it just didn't look like the Mantis was having fun with it. Looked a bit dangerous, so I removed it and now I don't mess with bees/wasps for mantis food anymore.

Glad that you didn't say that I had to go out and buy a certain type of food. Part of the fun of having a mantis is hunting down the food yourself. Then, you get to enjoy watching it get consumed, and it's kinda rewarding for your own work, too It's quite an interested food-chain thing. Human catches food for Mantis -> Mantis eats food.

 

[Precarious]

Depends on the species when it comes to wasps. Many that I keep prefer flying food and they love wasps. I've been told dragonflies are iffy because they are predatory themselves and can bite pretty good.

A mantis doesn't necessarily need to eat every day. Take note of the size of their abdomen. You can tell if and when they need food that way. You don't want to over stuff them, but the abdomen should look nice and full after a good meal. You can give smaller food in the following days or feed big meals only a couple times a week. Once you track that for a while you'll be able to tell if it's unusual if they stop eating.

You'll see other indications a molt is coming too. You'll see them hang with their raptor claws extended in front of them. And if they're sub-adult you see their wing bugs swell.

 

[FendersRule]

Good info. Thanks for the help.

 

[Precarious]

Good info. Thanks for the help.

No problem. I wish I'd seen this post before you had a problem. Maybe we could have avoided it. Sorry about your mantis.

Popas are very hardy and forgiving. You shouldn't have any problems with them.