The texture of the branches doesn't influence the color. The color patterns of the branches may do so, however. If you meant this, then we agree. I classify this still as color of the environment. I understand texture as the (morphological) shape of the bark (smooth, rough, with plates etc.), which may have triggered the evolution of some morphological traits but doesn't have effect on ontogenetic color change.
Albinism
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ABbuggin
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lol so funny :lol:
Thanks a lot for all the info, I'm going to try to get some black gongylus.
What's your reference for that statement? You do realize there are detailed experiments with a number of insects (there are some neat ones on various butterfly chrysalis) showing the texture is the cause of many specific color changes?
I refer to mantids. It may be true in butterflies or lizards, but there is no experimental proof of morphological branch texture to have an effect on mantids. Color patterns of the perch do, however, so I ask again to define what you exactly refer to when talking about "texture".
Well, that article refers to the light spectrum, luminance and color of the pupal environment, so there is no contradiction to what I have said. It is clear that any light and color effects affect mantid coloration. But, mantid coloration has nothing to do with the three-dimensional texture of the branch. If a mantid becomes marbled because there are lichens and mosses on the bark, it is because of the marbled color of those mosses and lichens, not because there are lichens, mosses or whatever structure protruding from the bark.
Read the last sentence of the abstract. Obviously you only read what you want to and then your eyes close. Maybe if you read the whole article and noticed the title of the article: TWO different sensory mechanisms....
I imagine you have journal references for the various color change mechanisms you listed specific to mantids? Please list them.
The texture of the coating on metal screen (not color) affects mantids and phasmid coloration, this has been known for some time with phasmids.
Oops, I overead the last stuff.
However, there isn't known anything like this in mantids. I can give no reference for this kind of stimulus, as it was not found in mantids and thus there is no reference. Regarding light, humidity and environmental color please check the works of Ergene (1953), Robinson (1969a and b ), Edmunds (1972), (1976), (1986) and (1999) for a review, respectively. There are several other works which I haven't found in the past 10 minutes plus my own observational data. Show me a work where this is proven for mantids, and I'll accept it. Phasmids, moths or whatever are not mantids. By the way, I would like to have that work which has demonstrated it for phasmids.
However, there isn't known anything like this in mantids. I can give no reference for this kind of stimulus, as it was not found in mantids and thus there is no reference. Regarding light, humidity and environmental color please check the works of Ergene (1953), Robinson (1969a and b ), Edmunds (1972), (1976), (1986) and (1999) for a review, respectively. There are several other works which I haven't found in the past 10 minutes plus my own observational data. Show me a work where this is proven for mantids, and I'll accept it. Phasmids, moths or whatever are not mantids. By the way, I would like to have that work which has demonstrated it for phasmids.
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MantidLord
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jason_mazzy
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I work alot w/ genetics, and perhaps I can get my friend to look here as he is lead geneticist for nc state, but albinism isn't just a lack of color or pigment. it is the lack of a certain color (generally melanin which produces varying shades of black and brown). Such as my albino Boas, though they are true albino's they have varying shades of orange and yellow left. My anetherystics have no red pigment (ie no brown) so they apear black and white (w/ varying degrees of yellow) Yellow is produced by xanthin, so U would need the axanthic gene to remove that color. Basically U may have seen color morphs already and not reall noticed. or just seen one that looked different, but didn't register as something unique. I believe it is and will be very hard to isolate genes, because mantids naturally use diverse color genes to survive. That is why U can get so many varieties of color from two mantids. the offspring disperse, leaving the gentic weak to be picked off early, ([hypothetical situation]in this case the weakness is color) the greens survive more efficiently in this area because of all the foilage, but if two greens mate they still produce brown's. the reason being as nature knows things change. perhaps this was an exceptionally dry year, so the greens get picked off in great numbers and the fewer browns survive to mate.
I do believe that genetic anomalies do happen. and the only way to pinpoint one is to take what may be a unique or desreable color and breed it. Then U must take the offspring and breed them back to eachother. By doing that U can check for anomalies. Then U can begin on breeding hetrozygous and homozygous forms. The most stunning generally are a combination of recessive genes. Such as an anery/albino. That would most likely be solid white. Or Solid white base color with translucent yellow, or lavender markings where the pattern was. Hope this helps.
I do believe that genetic anomalies do happen. and the only way to pinpoint one is to take what may be a unique or desreable color and breed it. Then U must take the offspring and breed them back to eachother. By doing that U can check for anomalies. Then U can begin on breeding hetrozygous and homozygous forms. The most stunning generally are a combination of recessive genes. Such as an anery/albino. That would most likely be solid white. Or Solid white base color with translucent yellow, or lavender markings where the pattern was. Hope this helps.
jason_mazzy
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no one here likes genetics?
