Another discussion about color

[minomantis]

Do you think mantids know what color they are?  There are times when I think a mantis has NO idea what color they are and then I feel there are times when a mantis is very aware of what color they are.  I will put a brown mantis on a green plant and they will either try to hang low to the soil or find a way which they can best hide.  Also, I'm almost certain that their eyes can see quite complex colors (not just green, but shades of green or whatever color)  It always blows me away how a nymph can almost match a shade of green exactly.  I know the color discussions come up quite often, but I'm curious to know your thoughts on this.  Thanks!

 

[MantisGirl13]

Interesting question! I don't think any of us know what our mantids are thinking though ?

- MantisGirl13

 

[ohaple]

I expected they would like to hide on plants that match their physical appearance, but every single mantis we have ignores the sticks and live plants and cork, and instead just hang out on the mesh on the lid. It must be more comfortable for them? Maybe they just like being higher? Maybe there is something about the humidity or temperature at the top that they prefer?

 

[Mantis Lady]

nstead just hang out on the mesh on the lid.

Yeah, somehow most mantids like to do that. Maybe they can see what is happing in their homes? (If there is prey walking or not)

I have a fake plant and that plant they like to hide in. And if you dont know there is a mantis in there, you dont see them. (mantids are green)

 

[ohaple]

Cool. We are working right now to fine-tune our vivarium setup so that we can continue to provide live plants for them. It is proving a fun challenge.

 

[River Dane]

Interesting idea! Although, a mantis would have to be self-aware to know what color it is. If one looked in a mirror, it may recognize itself, or see itself as another mantis. 

Based on this idea, the main way I know of to test for self-awareness is to place a sticker on an unconscious animal in a place where the animal would not be able to view it without a mirror. The idea is when the animal is given a mirror, it will be able to recognize where the dot on their body is, and may try to remove it. This is called the ‘mirror test.’ It may not always be accurate, though. 

From what I know, mantids haven’t been tested, and the only insects that passed were ants. So it isn’t entirely out of question, but I think social animals would have more a need for self-awareness than a rogue mantis.

 

[ohaple]

Interesting idea! Although, a mantis would have to be self-aware to know what color it is. If one looked in a mirror, it may recognize itself, or see itself as another mantis. 

Based on this idea, the main way I know of to test for self-awareness is to place a sticker on an unconscious animal in a place where the animal would not be able to view it without a mirror. The idea is when the animal is given a mirror, it will be able to recognize where the dot on their body is, and may try to remove it. This is called the ‘mirror test.’ It may not always be accurate, though. 

From what I know, mantids haven’t been tested, and the only insects that passed were ants. So it isn’t entirely out of question, but I think social animals would have more a need for self-awareness than a rogue mantis.

In my brief reading on the mirror test it looks like it is maybe our best indicator, but still has many challenges in determining whether a species has self-awareness. Some studies showed that monkeys who were thought not to have self awareness could be taught to use a mirror and recognize themselves, indicating that maybe the test isn't strictly testing for self awareness, but is testing whether the animal can use the mirror as a tool and understand what the tool does. Still, very interesting. I am curious now to see what my mantids would do if confronted with a mirror. I suspect they would have a defensive response to the "invading" mantis in its enclosure.

It might be interesting to see if different morphs adhere to the same camouflage behavior. For instance, if both green and brown ghost mantids gravitate towards the same plants for camoflage, it would imply they are "programmed" to go to the plant rather than recognizing their own color and seeking good camouflage. I bet this is something well-know and well-studied among etymologists if only I had access to the journals. I will see if I can find any free articles describing the behavior in mantids or others (stick insects?). The old moth anecdote relating to evolution comes to mind as well.

 

[Graceface]

This article about how chameleons change color was interesting. It says they don't change their skin pigmentation, rather they have a layer of special cells in the skin that change size and affect how light is reflected, thus changing their viable color. 

Perhaps mantis have the ability to shift their coloration between certain shades based on the typical surroundings of the species using light. This may be why darker specimens move to darker places on the plant. 

 I've read in Orin's book, 'Keeping the praying mantis' a bit about this and it is interesting:

"A complex set of stimuli and responses allow praying mantids to change colors. Transformations are affected by the coloration of nearby objects (i.e. plants, caging, flowers, screen), nutrition, humidity levels, temperature, light intensity, and other environmental variables. Color changes may also be affected by genetics, as one or two individuals are often a different color from their siblings despite being kept under identical conditions."

It goes on to talk about am experiment where green orchid mantis species were kept on different colored perches. The ones kept on green perches showed no pink colors. Others kept on purple perches showed signs of turning more pink. In their next molt, they molted more pink. When the green perch specimens were moved onto purple perches, they began turning more pink also. This is why Im keeping my orchids on purple bug ladders now, to see if they turn more pink. 

 

[MantisGirl13]

This is a very interesting discussion! 

@Graceface Let us know what colors your orchids turn!

- MantisGirl13

 

[Ziiggy's Insectarium]

i actually plan on doing an experiment with many different species about color and what the likely hood is of a certain color female with a certain color male ill produce certain color offspring. i would say an easy way to test your theory would be to be to have two sides of a enclosure covered in one color of construction paper and the other two sides another color to match the mantis than observe where they stay over a period of days.

 

[Graceface]

@Graceface Let us know what colors your orchids turn!

- MantisGirl13

So far, my males have gotten pinker, but the females don't seem to have been affected as noticeably. Domenic was extra pink, he molted last week and the pink stayed through his molt. It may be the slightly cooler temps or slightly less food my males are experiencing is contributing to them changing color more, in order to attract more food. Or, it could just be genetics lol. 

 

[MantisGirl13]

Well, pink is a pretty color! I hope your females start turning too!

- MantisGirl13

 

[Graceface]

Here is Domenic. On the right is pre-molt, left is post molt. His pink coloration stayed, but time will tell as to whether it will stay when he eventually molts to adult

 

[Itsdelliott]

Beautiful mantis! ?

 

[MantisGirl13]

Oh, WOW! He is so colorful! You are very lucky to have an orchid with such amazing coloration!

- MantisGirl13

 

[Graceface]

Thank you! I need to check my pictures and see how pink he was when I got him to determine if the purple bug ladders perhaps had an influence on his coloration. 

 

[MantisGirl13]

Yeah, it would be cool to know if that has any influence on his coloring.

- MantisGirl13

 

[Graceface]

 i would say an easy way to test your theory would be to be to have two sides of a enclosure covered in one color of construction paper and the other two sides another color to match the mantis than observe where they stay over a period of days.

Yes, this might be a good way to see if the mantis moves to a more camoflauged location. If they moved to the similar color, it would show they at least have a drive to 'blend in' to their surroundings. 

I don't know if it would prove whether the mantis 'knows' what color it is as a conscious thought or not (if that was the OP's intention) but it would be interesting to see the results. 

 

[minomantis]

There is a lot of discussion here which is awesome!  I guess the only reason I ask is if you think about it.  The reason why we cant find mantids so easily is because they are always so well camouflaged with their surroundings.  Maybe it's just a mystery.  Cuttlefish are apparently colorblind, but yet their camouflage is unmatched. Maybe mantids see what they're around and just hope for the best when it comes to changing their color and try to stay near what they remember from their last molt.  But then we would have to prove that mantids have a memory.  It gets complicated. lol.  Unless they're walking out in the open we can't find them and i'm just curious how/why that is.