Best practice for communal setup?

[TisRayMan]

I would really appreciate if anyone could provide a link  or a quick overview of the overall method for rearing nymphs, juveniles, and adults for communal propagation. I'd like to get my head around all the requirements and the general approach taken.

So I have a few questions to reveal a few of my impressions thus far,

Once an ootheca hatches, are the nymphs best kept together in numbers in one or more separate containers, and release the fruit flies on a schedule and hope for a high survival rate?

At some point, is it necessary to move to raise each surviving, growing juvenile in its own individual container?  And then does one introduce them into the communal setup when they reach adulthood?

I am asking because I understand that juveniles need individual smaller containers than the communal enclosure to assure they can feed, grow and molt properly.

This is my impression of one approach to take.  Basically I would like to know how to keep the communal mantid in various stages of life, rotating them through the various habitats.  I would really appreciate if someone would help enlighten me, and expand upon the best practices.  Thanks in advance!

 

[Budwing]

Once an ootheca hatches, are the nymphs best kept together in numbers in one or more separate containers, and release the fruit flies on a schedule and hope for a high survival rate?

The only communial species I have are ghost mantis. Personally I separate nymphs into smaller more manageable communial groups for feeding purposes and to monitor growth rate of individuals. I feed every second day or when flies are all gone.

At some point, is it necessary to move to raise each surviving, growing juvenile in its own individual container?  And then does one introduce them into the communal setup when they reach adulthood?

I separate unless they look skinny, then they need took out and fed up separately before being put back in. Anything smaller than the rest needs taken out before it ends up a snack. When their all the same size and there is plenty of food there is usually no issues. 

The enclosure has to be big enough to prevent them stressing each other out. And provide plenty of branches. They like their space and get flicky with the others if anyone get too close.

They like to give each other a at least 3" - 4" space at all times.

When full grown my females eat my males weeks after they have bred and started to lay ooths. From what iv noticed after the females 3rd ooth the male comes to breed again and their gone. I dont take the males out when their full grown.

 

[TisRayMan]

Thank you for the clarification!  So if I am not mistaken, you advise raising the mantids up to the age when you move them to the adults' communal tank (or whatever enclosure one uses), in the very same container you placed them in as nymphs, with the exception of skinny individuals?  So basically for most of them there are two habitats they need throughout a lifespan, and not three as I surmised?

So at what stage of life, or instar, is an individual introduced to the adult colony?  And how large a colony of ghost mantises do you keep, in what size and type of enclosure?  Ghosts are definitely one of the first species I'd like to return with; so cool!

 

[Budwing]

I keep them in a group of the same instar. At the moment I have 19 L1 nymphs just hatched from one ooth, il break them up into 3 or 4 little communial groups. Just to feed them up and grow them on. With a group of 5 or 6 tiny nymphs it's easier see weaklings than it is when theres 19 moving around.

They will be kept in a smaller plastic container, so its easier for them to find and feed on the fruit flies.

When they are around L3 and need the space to molt thats when Il put them into a bigger container. Which is a clear plastic bucket with a lid on it with sticks and fake plants inside. Which I did with my last ghosts. This helps keep humidity in to prevent mismolts. Once they are imago they dont need as much humidity so they will then go into mesh butterfly cage.

My last communtity of ghosts only went into the butterfly cage because I needed the the containers for other stick insects, but now I like them and their easier to keep cool in hot summers.

I will only keep 5 to a group now. I had 8 before from last year but 2 fell while molting and one got eaten because it was ever so slighly smaller than the rest. 5 works fine for the size of most my enclosures and everything was working well and good till my ravenous gravid females scoffed my last 2 males.

 

[TisRayMan]

Once they are imago they dont need as much humidity so they will then go into mesh butterfly cage.

Apologies, I'm not certain whether imago is a term I don't know, or a typo 

So do you mean "once they are adults" they will go into the butterfly cage? (after final molt?)

Oh incidentally, so to clarify, is the first instar at hatching or after the first molt?  And I presume the final instar occurs after the final molt?  How many installs does a mantid go through, if it is the same for every species?

Thank you again for all the valuable info!  You are very patient. I try to search for answers first with google or by searching the forum, but often you need to seek answers directly!

 

[Budwing]

Imago means final molt to adult stage. 

Yes they went into the butterfly cage when they had the final molt

First instar is once they have hatched and come out of the worm skin.

Different species have different numbers of molts and this can sometimes differ even between males and females of the same species. In some species the female has an extra molt. 

I think 7 to  8 molts is average for most mantids and phasmids depending on species.

 

[TisRayMan]

I see.  So you say hatched and come out of the worm skin, so what is the worm skin, is it the individual cell in the ooth, or something else, maybe shed after hatching?  Btw sorry for not responding sooner... I didn't receive notifications the last couple months and I thought folks were losing patience with all my questions lol

I do appreciate the valuable time and information! 

 

[MantisGirl13]

I see.  So you say hatched and come out of the worm skin, so what is the worm skin, is it the individual cell in the ooth, or something else, maybe shed after hatching?  Btw sorry for not responding sooner... I didn't receive notifications the last couple months and I thought folks were losing patience with all my questions lol

I do appreciate the valuable time and information! 

When a mantis hatches, it comes out of the 'worm skin' and becomes an L1 after the shedding of that worm skin. The worm skin, as you put it, is the cell in the ooth that the mantis develops in. The individual egg. 

Hope that helps!

- MantisGirl13 

 

[Jaywo]

I raise Violins communally and I do rotate them in and out of communal groups dependent on age, *** and fitness. As @Budwingsaid before, one major key factor is giving them enough space and food. They are all opportunist and if they are hungry or there is easy prey like their weak sibling, well an easy lunch is an easy lunch.

Many species can be raised communally in the beginning from L1-L3 then you have to decide to accept loss because feeding is easier or separate and spend much more time feeding and maintenance.

 

[Budwing]

The worm skin looks like a long ant grub or larvae. It’s their first skin they developed in from being an egg. They slip out of the ooth in this form then moult into the recognisable mantis nymphs able to run around and feed.

 

[TisRayMan]

Wow nymphs emerging from their worm skin sounds like a sight to see!  Can't wait to try breeding