Build/Inventory section for all keepers.

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Loops117

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Most of the hobby related forums i frequent have a Build thread for a user to create a Topic whether it's for a fishtank, model, garden, etc.

I know not all hobbyist have a "Build", but some do. It wouldn't even have to be a build. but even a live inventory for cup keepers. This would allow the Creator to log any changes, list current inventory in the build, and allow other hobbyist to chime in on any questions/problems since there's a trail. I myself have used these to track progression, and keep records of any past problems. As well as house an area for all my questions regarding that specific build. We could also use to to direct anyone asking any questions to a matured Build topic that best suits them and their needs.

I'd personally start one for my Vivarium/Ghost colony build. Being able to post pictures and ask questions before i even lay my first rock would be great.

idk, this is just an idea.

 
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Sounds like the many thread topics that already exist on the forum. You can post pictures and ask questions anywhere that the topic fits, it is a forum after all. ;) For a enclosure/habitat just start a new topic in the Enclosure and Housing section.

Many members simply start a new thread much like this one from LAME and add to it as you described for his build. Or for keeping track of your mantids another thread like this one by Mantidbro, adding to it as your pets change. If that doesn't suit your needs, you can also do your own blog too (here at MF).

If you are referring to one single thread to hold all the builds of the members that would be a rather big mess, with everything posted in the same thread. Perhaps you are referring to a section?

 
I meant a section with individual topics for each build. I wasn't aware that others had already been doing this in other topics, although i could have just done a search. I just looked through the sections already available and didnt see any i felt would be right for a build topic. I was thinking about putting it in the enclosure section, but the questions that would be stemming from it would be more then just about the enclosure. I feel as if a section dedicated to build/inventories would be a little easier for people to find and go through. I mean, it would be easy to go through all the sections to find a build topic that relates to what im doing, but it's an un-needed search IMO. I felt as if the enclosure section is more of an area for building the actual enclosure and not everything after that considering half the topics are simple question topics. Perhaps splitting it to two would even help having one section for Builds/inventory and the other for DIY Building and Enclosure questions.

Having a section dedicated for topics relating to an exact tank or inventory would be awesome and allow for people to share their success or failure with more of a backstory. It would also give grounds for any hobbyist looking to start something better and have a sort of manual for themselves rather then searching through the forums to piece questions together, or ask a question that could have already been answered. It would also allow hobbyist to see the progress others have made over time and give them examples, inspiration, or even a "How to" for more then just an enclosure.

Sorry if i'm being a hassle. I do Inventory management and Efficiency for a living so my head started spinning when i couldnt find a section for my needs. I've always felt having a more direct, laid out plan is the best for maintenance and organization. Without that, everything eventually turns into a text book with no table of contents.

 
Indeed it can be a bit counterproductive having a thread about habitats, but covering anything related to what is in it as well (in that regard some keep it more strict to the topic). You best bet for any attempt at a serious consideration for your idea would be to send a private message to the forum site/root admin Peter.

Personally I am just a regular member, and was pointing you to what is already here and the norms. I have no say in anything more than you. ;)

No problems, feel free to speak your piece here. One of the moderators might bring your message/idea to Peter's attention, but a PM is a sure bet. Not saying he doesn't look through the forum from time to time, but he spends 15 hours daily with his business, and other endeavors, so it isn't often he'll see something unless it is a PM.

I would be curious of the outcome for such a thing though. It sounds like if it was done and maintained properly (by the thread creator) it could be a good resource.

 
Thank you for the heads up. I sent him a PM regarding this topic. Hopefully he's able to chime in so i can start my build topic.
Your welcome, and glad to hear he'll see it. Perhaps it will be something simple to implement, and he can do it rather quickly.

Also nice profile photo (avatar), that is one crazy looking roach. :D

 
I have read through this twice. CosbyArt's replies seem to reflect the exact same reaction I "tend" to have (for better or worse) for all complicated new ideas. I'm not sure, however, that this one is complicated and therein lies the problem. I'm not even sure what a "build/inventory" is or how it is much different than the links CosbyArt linked to. Like the table of contents you refer to, I feel like there are guideposts in your description but no clear way through to the point. What are you asking? To use your example you mention a ghost mantis vivarium. Now, there are a thousand ways to customize a cage from a decorative standpoint, but certain very basic care requirements must be met for all mantises, and for the majority of hobby species these are fairly similar, with a few exceptions.

Your suggestion seems to be that a new section of the forum be created for setting up mantis habitats for specific species. We do have a care sheets section that discusses the (essential, basic) care requirement for each species. Your use of the word inventory confuses me. Perhaps you mean to say that a habitat will consist of a cage with certain dimensions, and certain depth of substrate and a certain number of decorative rocks, molting surfaces, and then a certain number of mantises. And then the community here could respond to your step by step "build/inventory" to weigh in on such factors as how deep the substrate should be, etc. 

So, I guess that I'm in agreement with CosbyArt that the care sheets, the blogs, the Enclosures section and other various sections of the forum can be used for these purposes already (and have been for years). And of course you could start a thread in any of these under the pretense of eventually asking all your questions. We're a little loose about staying "on topic". I note that you have 8 posts on this forum and so I do consider if perhaps you may be overthinking the construction of the wheel and wanting to reinvent it. And that's fine. I'll take a helicopter over a horse drawn carriage any day!

But, go ahead and sell the idea! The most compelling part of your pitch for me was the part where you said you do inventory management and efficiency for a living. I'm very interested to see more from your perspective because yours is unique and you have a fresh set of eyes that will soon be gone if you just melt in with the rest of us. We didn't have a care sheets section on the forum until a few years ago. I drug my feet for a long time on that point in forum evolution because I liked that people had to engage and re-engage each other about these topics in the past. It almost seemed that a care sheet would stifle discussion and reduce the amount of discussion that typically went on. But we did it and because it is there, I can, at the very least, now reference them in replying to your request here. ;)

Thank you both for your suggestions. In a larger sense, I'm in the same boat as both of you. I have no say. It is simply my shared responsibility with the other mods to understand what the community needs and implement reasonable improvements. In a time where FB has replaced much of what made a forum indispensable in the past, it is more important now to listen and consider than ever before. I'm not a huge user of FB because everything is so "of the moment." It comes and goes. Forums leave a better trail in many ways which is exactly, I think, what your proposal intends to support. People spend a little bit more time in their posts on forums and then in replies. I guess my grandma would say the same for handwritten letters. Times change, and then times change again.

CosbyArt, I REALLY appreciate your contributions on this forum!

Both avatars are great and seem drawn almost by the same hand. 

 
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Greetings Peter, glad to see you are open to the suggestion if he can "sell" the idea to you. Perhaps the best way to do that would be to show examples of the build/inventory in use on another forum and what it does so differently.

So Loops117 provide some example links to the forums you are referring to - and anything you can add to it that will help implement it here on this forum. I have stumbled across a few online which I think is what you are referring to, but as it is your "baby" I wanted to be sure what it is exactly first. Then perhaps we can make suggestions on how to further improve it.

Ha, glad to see I wasn't the only one that thought it was just reinventing the wheel originally (the reason I gave the links and how we did it). Although it seemed once I gave his response some thought, it might have some merit and add a great thing to the forum.

Many thanks for the kind words Peter, I am humbled by it. I just try to help out where I can. ;)

 
Hello peter, and thank you for chiming in.

Well, to start it off i guess i'll explain why i even asked the question. I had been searching endlessly on google trying to find any and all information i could on the project i was starting. To sum it up, i wasnt able to find much on the google. I eventually had found these forums, and started looking around to see if there is anything similar to what i was doing. I found a couple hopefuls and they seemed to have some good information, but it was a lot of searching with dead ends. Enclosures and Containers was more of a section for exactly that and not everything after it's made. I felt as if the sections really didn't have an area for what i was looking for. This isn't a blog to just talk about what i did, or a DIY on how i built my unique stand, and created a mesh screen for my vivarium. I agree that my topic could just be made in one of the above mentioned sections, but it just seemed like a place for it to get lost and well...non efficient.

The build/inventory was more of an idea that i didn't quite know what to call for this particular hobby. The term "Inventory" was just thrown out there considering many hobbyist keep their bugs in containers with sticks, and it wouldnt be considered a Build or Species tank. I myself would consider my whole vivarium project a "Build" since it's going to have more then one species of bug, with live plants and whatever else i am able to safely house together. It'll have information on how i am able to do what i'm doing, and how long it's been going on. Same with keeping your bugs in cups. A specific topic with your name on it. You can continually edit the first post keeping a live count of what you have. And leave the rest up to the OP. They can track any changes, deaths, different ideas...idk im still new to this.

http://www.michiganreefers.com/forums/members-tanks/

Here's a link referring to members tanks whether they are Species specific, or multi species tanks.

As for my picture. I can't really take credit. I found the roach online and added the hat and ears. At work, my nickname is "Loops" since i have 1 3/4" holes in my ears and am always wearing a beanie.

 
Looking over it, what i'm trying to do might be a little advanced for this hobby. But that doesn't mean it won't work! I'm hoping this will inspire beginner and advanced hobbyist to do more then just keep a mantis in an enclosure. I want to be able to help others along the journey as well as have others help me. Without having an area for that, it all get's lost.

These forums have the largest gathering of mantid hobbyists i could find, so why not use it to expand all the hobbyist horizons. I may be repeating myself, but why not help hobbyists to go further. I've ran forums in the past, so it wouldn't be much to implement an extra section. Even if it takes some time for it to get rolling, it'll eventually help and progress into something bugger..

 
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Hello peter, and thank you for chiming in.

Well, to start it off i guess i'll explain why i even asked the question. I had been searching endlessly on google trying to find any and all information i could on the project i was starting. To sum it up, i wasnt able to find much on the google. I eventually had found these forums, and started looking around to see if there is anything similar to what i was doing. I found a couple hopefuls and they seemed to have some good information, but it was a lot of searching with dead ends. Enclosures and Containers was more of a section for exactly that and not everything after it's made. I felt as if the sections really didn't have an area for what i was looking for. This isn't a blog to just talk about what i did, or a DIY on how i built my unique stand, and created a mesh screen for my vivarium. I agree that my topic could just be made in one of the above mentioned sections, but it just seemed like a place for it to get lost and well...non efficient.

The build/inventory was more of an idea that i didn't quite know what to call for this particular hobby. The term "Inventory" was just thrown out there considering many hobbyist keep their bugs in containers with sticks, and it wouldnt be considered a Build or Species tank. I myself would consider my whole vivarium project a "Build" since it's going to have more then one species of bug, with live plants and whatever else i am able to safely house together. It'll have information on how i am able to do what i'm doing, and how long it's been going on. Same with keeping your bugs in cups. A specific topic with your name on it. You can continually edit the first post keeping a live count of what you have. And leave the rest up to the OP. They can track any changes, deaths, different ideas...idk im still new to this.

http://www.michiganreefers.com/forums/members-tanks/

Here's a link referring to members tanks whether they are Species specific, or multi species tanks.

As for my picture. I can't really take credit. I found the roach online and added the hat and ears. At work, my nickname is "Loops" since i have 1 3/4" holes in my ears and am always wearing a beanie.
My avatar I created in the free/opensource vector art program Inkscape, so I know they are different artists. :) You can see it in various sizes on my side project that hasn't seen much work after I got everything setup. If your interested Loops shoot me a PM and I would be willing to draw you a custom picture to avoid you infringing on another artists work. ;)

I've had a look at several of the thread/topics at that forum and the only thing different I see is the topics themselves have a description tag list on the main page (listing tank size, lights, sump, etc). This is the guide rules in place for making a post in their build section, and it seems to be very basic. Here is a quick rundown of what I found on their site. I'm a bit wordy today, so skip down to the bold text The 2nd for a way to implement this on the forum :D

Most are just some text with very few photos (the first topic 180 New setup), and seem to be a diary of random ideas and various tank level measurements (salt/calcium/etc). With a sprinkling of the usual "cool/good tank" posts throughout the pages. The 6th post in he finally shows a single photo of the tank. I've went 8 pages in and I have little idea how any of it was setup or what was used besides him stating the specs in the first post (besides a few shots of his skimmer - and a dozen close ups of the fish), definitely not a tutorial or guide of any sort.

The thread labelled Jay13's 180 "in wall", was a bit better with some photos of the process and what he wanted to setup; however, it seems he gave up as his fish developed ick and never showed the finished project. On page 16 he showed a few photos of the fish in it recently, and the topic seems to end with the usual water measurements and "cool tank" comments. Even that topic doesn't seem to show anything different than the typically threads on MF as well.

I've looked others and they are the same. I don't see any kind of organization or a topic as they briefly state their tank setup and go onto photos of their fish and possible problems along the way. Seems to be nothing more than the same types of threads already on MF that tend to run off topic a bit.

I pulled up many of the forums I joined 10-15 years ago (I joined so I could access the photos and such), some of course are no longer online. As at that time I was still keeping my African clawed frogs, and my wife got into African dwarf frogs. They are a mix of aquarium/goldfish/aqua pets (salamanders, turtles, frogs, etc) forums and I couldn't find a single site that offered anything more than the typically threads.

Perhaps I'm missing the big picture somewhere but I don't see anything different than what is already in place here on MF. So I did some more searching and I found two ways that can truly make something like you are referring to, a running build guide that can help others with theirs as well.

The first is a plugin for the IPS forum software itself. It is called Tutorials 2.1.0 RC 4 it costs $40 to buy, and $10 yearly. It seems to provide a very structured guide for posting content, which could be setup for a build section and perhaps applied to other things as well (the caresheets, guides, etc). The more I looked into it the less it seems it may be of use for many things, I am listing it as a option.

I went through many other pages of plugins too for a solution without any much luck. The only interesting thing I found was a free plugin, Preview Post Button 1.0.2 that would give us back the preview option before submitting a post. :) There are other plugins too of various things but not too many are worth pointing out.

The 2nd and only other option I could think of is what was hinted at already. Creating a new forum section just for builds, but if you are going to do that there might as well be sub-forums as well for vivariums, fake decor, and what not to better categorize them. Then to make it truly useful put in place a template that must be followed, much like the caresheets.

As any post made by the user is editable already, make the first post list the information about the build guide and update with photos and perhaps links of the build as it progresses. Any progress is marked by a new post in the thread of course, and if it is a milestone have it linked to in the first post something like this ...

Build type - Vivarium
Build Highlights - 30 gallon breeder tank, Foam background, live plants, waterfall, driftwood design element, adjustable ventilation for plants/mantids
Intended Mantid Instar stages - L1-L8
Running build cost - $135.70

Build steps
Customizing the tank - Post link
Setup of the foam background - Post link
Creating the turf/ground layered mix - Post link
....

Photos of the completed setup - Post link
Of course the actual details of the template would have to be decided upon by the mods, or voted on by the community. I think the 2nd option would be much more efficient, allowing the build author to add in the steps and such to their original/first post to keep it organized (making it really useful for anyone to follow along or build their own).

I think with a few well thought out exchanges for what data would need to be used/highlighted a workable template for the various builds could be decided upon rather quickly, and could suit builders of vivariums, small habitats, and cup builders alike. The trick would be to have the mods to police the section especially more at the beginning so everyone knows what is expected, and can use the other builds as a reference to do their own.

Also, thank you cosby. Really thought you were management with how helpful you've been. 
Your welcome. I just have to much time on my hands I guess, and tend to be really talkative.
clock.gif


 
I guess it does seem like the threads seem a bit dead ended or incomplete, but they still house a lot of information. I've personally spent plenty of time looking through those forums for unique ways things are done, or how one person setup their 50g breeder over anothers. The idea of having a guideline for the section would also be implemented, but not enforced. I mean, it could and really should be depending on how this comes to be. Don't think of this as me trying to take a square idea and fit it into these forums, but rather a mold that we can work and manipulate to fit the needs. Now IMO, there is absolutely no need to implement a third party app/program for this. A simple work around would be to have a Locked/Sticky topic always on top. It'll include Options such as Enclosure size, Species, substrate, plant type, other inhabitants, etc... that wouldn't necessarily need to be followed as long as the post it's self stayed on topic, as well as a short on what this particular section is for. The idea of having sub forums for this could be helpful, but not essential IMO. It doesn't really even have to be tank specific, but an overall thread about all the tanks you keep and perhaps a short on what's in each. Going through other threads, i see things like Ricks posts with all of his setups pictured. Now, i could ask a question about why he did certain things on that particular post in Show us your... cuz well, i have many, or i could search his name and see if he ever posted about his setups, and see if he mentioned what's in each tank. OR, there could be a section dedicated to each hobbyist and their keepings.

Like i said, i have a particular idea i'd like to show the progress of and just didn't feel it had a particular spot in these forums. I'd like it to eventually be used to spark other ideas, or advance on it and create something better. Come to think of it idk if i would even make it specifically for one setup of mine, but just update the first post with all of my setups, and name it something like "Loops mantid Builds and enclosures" or anything similar.

As for the avatar, I love doing graphic design just don't usually have the time for such. I would appreciate it if you gave it a whack. I personally like the mantis, just couldn't picture one with big ears. lol.

 
One thing that would help is when I search a mantid species a link or tag to enclosure always pops up preferably first page. One issue I see is trying to find a post on enclosures and housing that pertains to my mantid species or mantid size.I know there are tags to help search but they depend on key words that most don't include in there thread. Mabe a guideline as it pertains to enclosures could be locked as a sticky.Now for enclosures just copy guideline as a quote and edit in information (tags)

Example below  just a rough guide I worked on this morning not complete

ENCLOSURES

                      type of mantid housed

scientific name:                                                                                            General mantids:

                        life stage of mantid housed
othecae: 
nymph stage: 
sub adult:
adult: 
                         enclosure type
small container:
medium  container:
large container:
communal container:
                         substrate
none:
paper towels:
Moss: 
eco earth:
other:
                         Decorations
real:
fake:
live vegetation:

materials list:

                       Notes & Updates
 

 
I guess it does seem like the threads seem a bit dead ended or incomplete, but they still house a lot of information. I've personally spent plenty of time looking through those forums for unique ways things are done, or how one person setup their 50g breeder over anothers. The idea of having a guideline for the section would also be implemented, but not enforced. I mean, it could and really should be depending on how this comes to be. Don't think of this as me trying to take a square idea and fit it into these forums, but rather a mold that we can work and manipulate to fit the needs. Now IMO, there is absolutely no need to implement a third party app/program for this. A simple work around would be to have a Locked/Sticky topic always on top. It'll include Options such as Enclosure size, Species, substrate, plant type, other inhabitants, etc... that wouldn't necessarily need to be followed as long as the post it's self stayed on topic, as well as a short on what this particular section is for. The idea of having sub forums for this could be helpful, but not essential IMO. It doesn't really even have to be tank specific, but an overall thread about all the tanks you keep and perhaps a short on what's in each. Going through other threads, i see things like Ricks posts with all of his setups pictured. Now, i could ask a question about why he did certain things on that particular post in Show us your... cuz well, i have many, or i could search his name and see if he ever posted about his setups, and see if he mentioned what's in each tank. OR, there could be a section dedicated to each hobbyist and their keepings.

Like i said, i have a particular idea i'd like to show the progress of and just didn't feel it had a particular spot in these forums. I'd like it to eventually be used to spark other ideas, or advance on it and create something better. Come to think of it idk if i would even make it specifically for one setup of mine, but just update the first post with all of my setups, and name it something like "Loops mantid Builds and enclosures" or anything similar.

As for the avatar, I love doing graphic design just don't usually have the time for such. I would appreciate it if you gave it a whack. I personally like the mantis, just couldn't picture one with big ears. lol.
Regarding using a template a something like this would be useful, Topic Template System 2.2.5 (not compatible though with MF as this is version 4). With it when you go to create a new build thread, all the template options show up on the new post page. With preset defaults for the various options - the builder selects a option, types one if needed, or if it doesn't apply leave it empty. That way the template is in place automatically, and customized for the build.

Glad to see you don't think the tutorial plugin would add much either, seems like swatting a fly with a bazooka, too much of something that wouldn't be utilized or really seems to fit - perhaps with a bit of rework and customizing; however, if that is the case why not just get a freelancer to write a plugin for the exact need and with a onetime payment? I'm up for donating for such things if needed (speaking of which the Support button no longer works for the forum either).

Seems like some sort of optional search plugin would be useful with much of that. Or simply using the topic tags to better organize it so relevant related topics can be found easier (I'm guilty of not using tags much either).

Sounds like some headway and perhaps a few possible ideas of what could be implemented at least now.

One thing that would help is when I search a mantid species a link or tag to enclosure always pops up preferably first page. One issue I see is trying to find a post on enclosures and housing that pertains to my mantid species or mantid size.I know there are tags to help search but they depend on key words that most don't include in there thread. Mabe a guideline as it pertains to enclosures could be locked as a sticky.Now for enclosures just copy guideline as a quote and edit in information (tags)

Example below  just a rough guide I worked on this morning not complete

...
Greetings Tony, glad to see another face joining in on trying to hammer down some ideas. :)

It seems that the search topic keeps coming up. Something that would really help with that would be a "similar thread/post" type of option, like this one or better yet this. To show the related mantid species topics or such, already for the member to find more information.

Ha, seems I keep posting a plugin to help with a problem. Though I wonder if Peter would be up for adding a plugin or not.

Looks like you took the template information on the build idea and ran with it, nice. :D

 
Well, this has all the stink of progress! Give me a day or so to read through this a second time (and digest it a first time). ;)  

I promised Orin I'd work on editing his new roach book for a while again tonight, and it's already hours past when I should have begun but I got stuck on the other side of town for a while, teaching a guy how to collect certain bugs for me so I have more time for this kind of stuff. 

 
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Also, as i progress as a forum member, I'm finding different Mantis threads similar to Cosbys and Lames. Those could be moved to the section as well. They don't have a pre-existing guideline on the original post, but they're pretty mature and already hold the information im trying to dedicate this section to.

 

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