Chinese Mantis Vomiting or Pooping dark brown/black

[KyleB]

Hi all,

My journey towards what feels like keeping Mantids alive rather than raising them continues. I have 3 Chinese Mantids, all at L6. The strongest one, who my son named "Bug" and my class of elementary students adores has developed an issue with vomit or diarrhea. The ceiling of his enclosure along with one of the sides has dark brown sludge on it. He has not been eating for 3-4 days now, which I thought was because he was preparing for a molt. I've only noticed this dark brown substance today. 

Recently he was moved into a larger enclosure. It has a fake plant, a magnolia branch and leaf that I boiled and coconut shavings substrate. He has been eating almost exclusively blue bottle flies. About a week ago I gave him a meal worm to eat. I'm also worried that I don't know how to control humidity with a very new environment and that could be causing it. I've been spraying the enclosure once a day, about 10 sprays. 

Thoughts?

Attached are pictures of the substance.  

 

[Mantid-Tim]

I can say this is usually not good but sometimes they recover. That sounds like a lot of humidity. I suggest you get a hygrometer (very cheap on amazon) and keep it at 65%. I doubt high humidity has anything to do with it but then I just never heard of it. Could just be diarrhea of some kind though. Does it smell acidic?

 

[KyleB]

I smelled the lid and there was no odor. I haven't noticed a smell. 

 

[Mantid-Tim]

This did happen to me once now that I think about it but the mantis only did it once or twice. Nothing came of it. Maybe high humidity/too much water makes it loose like that? Or just for no reason, like people.

 

[Mantid-Tim]

And yeah 10 sprays a day seems like a lot. You don't want it wet. Just spray the cage walls so that it dissipates in a few hours. And check out these hygrometers https://www.amazon.com/Hygrometer-Thermometer-Humidifiers-Dehumidifiers-Greenhouse/dp/B082HDBYNZ/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=hygrometer+thermometer+with+probe&qid=1606620106&sr=8-6 They are suprisingly accurate and very cheap.

 

[MantisGirl13]

A single mist once a day is more than sufficient. Don't overdo it.

- MantisGirl13

 

[KyleB]

I was spraying their 32 oz container twice every day before I moved them into a much larger enclosure. Wouldn't the change in size and the presence of coconut shavings, branches etc. mean I need to mist more in order to maintain the same level of humidity I had in the 32 oz containers?

 

[KyleB]

Also, I've moved him back into a 32 oz container for monitoring and every time I spray he drinks water off the sides of the container. Twice just today. 

 

[Mantid-Tim]

I was spraying their 32 oz container twice every day before I moved them into a much larger enclosure. Wouldn't the change in size and the presence of coconut shavings, branches etc. mean I need to mist more in order to maintain the same level of humidity I had in the 32 oz containers?

Spraying even once per day could be too much without knowing the humidity. It may be over-humidity is the problem.

 

[KyleB]

That humidity meter is on the way, so I will be able to check at that point. 

 

[KyleB]

Things seemed to be on the upswing, but now have taken a turn for the worse. After I isolated him in an empty 32 oz container (with paper towel substrate) he stopped vomiting/pooping that brown stuff. My students and I still haven't observed where the liquid is coming from. He seemed perfectly normal and active, even up to yesterday, but he was still refusing to eat meal worms. I'm still in this obnoxious situation where I'm just waiting forever to get house and blue bottle flies in the mail so I can feed them something different. 

Anyway, he hasn't eaten in over a week, maybe even 2. While in isolation he didn't poop anything because there is no frass on the paper towel. I got a humidity meter and after I spray 5-6 times in the larger enclosure it is at 75%, but doesn't stay that way for long. I spray once in the 32oz containers and they are at around 75% as well. I don't think too much humidity is the problem. It could actually be not enough humidity. This whole problem started when I put him in his larger enclosure, which necessarily changed his temperature and humidity requirements drastically and maybe I just wasn't ready to figure that out. I also transport them from school to home on the weekend. Yesterday the weather was cold and I brought them to the car and then heated it up. They were probably in 40 degree temps for about 5 minutes. 

This morning when I checked on our sick mantis Bug his antenna look stuck together with black stuff, his abdomen is flopping over and he is extremely lethargic. His rear 4 limbs seem almost non-functional and when I took the lid off and flipped it over he basically fell on his side and then slowly got up. I put him on the bottom of the 32oz container and he literally climbed up the side with just his raptorial forelegs. 

This whole process has been very frustrating. My other two Chinese mantids haven't been doing great either. They have molted with twisted legs, flopped over abdomens and have a lack of appetite as well. What I don't understand is why, after exacting consistency earlier in their lives, they seem to be doing poorly now. 

 

[KyleB]

Looks like 75% is too much, so I will curtail that. 

 

[MrGhostMantis]

He looks overfed. Give him some sticks too. That’s why his abdomen is flopping, he’s fat and he has no thee ways to hang. Give him honey to help with the vomiting.

 

[Mantid-Tim]

Not to steal the thread, but we should really start a sticky on this topic in the health section. It gets asked a lot because its a common health problem....

 

[Mantid-Tim]

Things seemed to be on the upswing, but now have taken a turn for the worse. After I isolated him in an empty 32 oz container (with paper towel substrate) he stopped vomiting/pooping that brown stuff. My students and I still haven't observed where the liquid is coming from. He seemed perfectly normal and active, even up to yesterday, but he was still refusing to eat meal worms. I'm still in this obnoxious situation where I'm just waiting forever to get house and blue bottle flies in the mail so I can feed them something different. 

Anyway, he hasn't eaten in over a week, maybe even 2. While in isolation he didn't poop anything because there is no frass on the paper towel. I got a humidity meter and after I spray 5-6 times in the larger enclosure it is at 75%, but doesn't stay that way for long. I spray once in the 32oz containers and they are at around 75% as well. I don't think too much humidity is the problem. It could actually be not enough humidity. This whole problem started when I put him in his larger enclosure, which necessarily changed his temperature and humidity requirements drastically and maybe I just wasn't ready to figure that out. I also transport them from school to home on the weekend. Yesterday the weather was cold and I brought them to the car and then heated it up. They were probably in 40 degree temps for about 5 minutes. 

This morning when I checked on our sick mantis Bug his antenna look stuck together with black stuff, his abdomen is flopping over and he is extremely lethargic. His rear 4 limbs seem almost non-functional and when I took the lid off and flipped it over he basically fell on his side and then slowly got up. I put him on the bottom of the 32oz container and he literally climbed up the side with just his raptorial forelegs. 

This whole process has been very frustrating. My other two Chinese mantids haven't been doing great either. They have molted with twisted legs, flopped over abdomens and have a lack of appetite as well. What I don't understand is why, after exacting consistency earlier in their lives, they seem to be doing poorly now. 

I concur that the humidity is not the problem but keep in mind the target for that species is 60-5% (and its really 40-65% range; lower is better than higher) but maybe feeding him some flies will be better for the diet. Also keep in mind that, in the words of a great mantis breeder, "bugs just croak." Meaning sometimes they get sick and don't make it and it's not anything you are doing wrong. But keep him in the isolate conditions and keep seeing if he'll eat. If you get larvae (maggots) instead of pupae, you can try to hand keep him the maggots. Put a pin through it, like fishing, and wave the pin around his face. Even touch the maggot to his mouth and see if he starts eating it. Hopefully he'll pull through; I'm rooting for you guys!