Cilnia humeralis trouble (part 2)

[Psychobunny]

I have posted this before and continue to have trouble with my 2 L6 cilnia's.

One has gotten so weak, I dont expect her to be alive when I get home this afternoon!!

Either one of them has ever shed, and they will not eat, refuse any sort of hand feeding

as well (they wont even take honey).

Two other members are having the same problems with theirs and we have exchanged

notes via PM.

I have searched the web for this species and all I have found is mention that it takes 2 months

for them to shed. This seems to be the general consensus.

I have had mine now for 2 months, no shedding yet.

I keep them well vented but w/ a damp sphagnum moss substrate and kept at 90 to 95F

with above 100W reptile basking light, and a UTH (under tank heater).

I have 2 humidifiers going night and day to maintain 60% RH.

They are in homes with plenty of space to roam around and hang from branches and lid.

I mist lightly once a day.

Am I missing something??? I really like this species and very depressed that I am having such

rotten luck with them. But I know I am not the only one.

Yet lots of others have no trouble with them at all!!??

Can anyone please help!!??

 

[LLCoolJew]

OMG. I was SO sad when I read your PM! What you are describing is the same, exact slow death as mine. It was heartbreaking for me to see such a beautiful mantid die so prematurely. It's really quite sad, as I really invested a great deal of time and (and money!) into her, and it sounds as though you have as well with all of the heat and humidity considerations you have employed. I'm really sorry that this is happening to you, too.

SInce we bought ours at the same time, from the same place, it begs the question: Does the problem lie with the species? Or with the breeder?

Either way, THIS SUCKS!!! I hope someone can help.

(( HUGS ))

---- LL ----

 

[Psychobunny]

Thanks for the kind words.

I stayed up with her last night until 10pm and went to bed.

This morning she was hanging by 3 legs, all 3 straight as arrows from her weakness to hold up her own

weight.

She does not seem to be suffering, or I would have put her down last night.

She was so pittyful laying in my hand just looking up at me as I cleaned her wounds from cricket bites with

Q-tips.

She was so weak, the crickets tried to take advantage, but I caught it in time and there was only minor bleeding.

We both got them from Carey at Mantis Pets. And she quickly sold out.

I hope she reads this post and chimes in.

 

[patrickfraser]

Maybe the blood line is weak? Bred to the brink? I am sorry to hear this. I am hoping to acquire this species someday. It looks like a later someday might be in order. It is a beautiful species and hope others do better with them. Is everybody with these from the same source having the same problem? If so, I would think it may be a defect with the whole lot.

 

[Psychobunny]

Maybe the blood line is weak? Bred to the brink? I am sorry to hear this. I am hoping to acquire this species someday. It looks like a later someday might be in order. It is a beautiful species and hope others do better with them. Is everybody with these from the same source having the same problem? If so, I would think it may be a defect with the whole lot.

I am thinking the same thing, bred out!!

It's interesting that the people who have posted good luck with this species are from several years ago

(old post's on the UK mantis forum).

I believe Carey has a number of these that she keeps, and since we got ours from her, I would really

like to get her honest opinion.

For all I know, maybe all of her's have died off as well!?

 

[Psychobunny]

Well, I just got home and checked on her.

She was still hanging on barely with 3 legs.

I waved my finger in front of her face, no head movement.

Breathing was very shallow.

I couldnt stand it anymore, watching her slowly die, so I ended it.

I said goodby and put her in the freezer to go to sleep.

Now I really feel like ######!!

 

[LLCoolJew]

I'm so sorry for your loss. It's never easy. Such a beatiful bug, too.

Mine also had really shallow breathing. It was hard to watch. But I held her all day until she died in my hand, because I couldn't end it. But you did the right thing.

 

[Psychobunny]

Thank you.

I will always remember how she looked at me while I was swabing her wounds in the palm of

my hand.

It was as if she knew I was trying to help her and did not protest in the least.

Having them die of old is one thing, but when you raise them and have them die just before

adult is very sad, and she was so friendly too

I dont know what I will do with the remaining one.

She seems okay and allert, but I can not get her to eat!!

I know she NEEDS to shed, and I have done everything to induce it, including putting her in the bathroom

when I take a hot shower, thinking that may trigger something!! but so far, nothing.

Obviously, if she does not shed, she will not eat, and she will also die!!

I am very upset!

P.S. another thing I am thinking. Carey has serveral out of the same ooth because she wanted to keep them and

really liked them. I have to wonder why she gave them 4 "hearts", indicating that they are easy and good "beginner

species"??!!

 

[ismart]

Sounds like they could be from a weak stock? 95F is over kill. I would personally not exceed 85F. 60% humidity is fine. These guys are prone over eating, and becoming sick. They for the most part do not know when to stop! On occasion they will vomit when overfed. This can become a serious problem! They may continuously vomit and die soon after. This species seems more prone to sickness, and does not usually recover. I personally would not handle them to much. Larger nymphs can get stressed out easy. I would say this species is not a good beginner species. Breeding them is also no easy task. Molting can also take a very long time for older nymphs.

 

[Psychobunny]

I actually seldome handled them, also, they are always at the top of the enclosure which is much

cooler. I make sure there are ways for them to go to the temp they like best.

I am used to doing this from keeping reptiles. You always have a warm side and a cooler side for

them to go.

Since they never ate much, they never had the vomit problem.

I have a viridis adult female who has that problem, eating too much and vomitting.

But so far in my experience keeping mantids, the African (sphromantids, viridis, lineola, etc.) are

the hardiest and have the least problems in general.

I am going to continue researching cilnia. So far, I have found no real useful info.

Personally, I think there are too many breaders out there who do not know enough about the species

they are breading.

And no, I am not talking about Carey, I know for a fact that she knows her mantids, I'm talking about the scores

of others who have found a new hobby.

 

[Psychobunny]

My last surviving female cilnia is still hanging on, very weak, still will not eat, not even hand

feeding of cricket puree (smashed up cricket guts!!).

She has turned from bright green to a nasty puke yellow!!

I know I am doing everything right as far as care.

I am now nearly certain she (and others) came from a bad ooth or a sick mother.

Pretty sure I will have to put her down soon

 

[ismart]

This is starting to sound more like a miss molt? It's getting weak and, dieing due to the exoskeleton never splitting. The color change is also a sign of this happening. Do you have a pic?

 

[ismart]

It could also be the Peter Pan disease? Meaning she does not want to grow up. I have had i the past 2 Sub-adult female Cilnia that refused to grow. They would just eat enough to sustain themselves. I think they both lasted 3 months like this before they became weak and died. It was strange? There sibling were showing sings of old age as adults while they were still sub-adults!

 

[Psychobunny]

I really think there was something very wrong with the ooth which came from Carey.

Nothing else makes sense; cooljew bought her's at the same time, from the same ooth, and

confirmed all the same symptoms as mine.

Her's died, one of mine died not long after, and now a 3rd!!

It has nothing to do with how we cared for them, they are simply defective stock!!!

 

[ismart]

Have you spoken with Carey? Has all of Caries stock died? What is her input on what is going on? I was just throwing some thoughts out there! I was just running some scenarios that have happened to me with my stock several years ago. I'm only speaking from experience. Sorry if this does not help at all?

 

[guapoalto049]

Have you fed the mantids crickets from a pet store?

 

[Psychobunny]

No, I buy farm raised cricks from folks I trust.

Besides, she hasnt eaten anything in so long I cant even remember the last time

she ate!!

She finally shed yesterday!! She was in too small a container so I had to hurry

to transfer her to a 12'' net cube.

I have been checking on her as she is still very weak, but was able to climb the wall

of the cube to get to the top and hang.

I put some honey on the net directly above her head hoping she would take in some

of it to help build up her strength.

She is now a nice light lime green, and I see wing buds.

Will attempt to hand feed her when I get home today.

Maybe some nice cricket puree !! :wacko:

 

[Psychobunny]

Have you spoken with Carey? Has all of Caries stock died? What is her input on what is going on? I was just throwing some thoughts out there! I was just running some scenarios that have happened to me with my stock several years ago. I'm only speaking from experience. Sorry if this does not help at all?

No, I have not talked to Carey yet. I am going to do that ASAP.

I am very interested in how her's are doing and hope she will be honest with me.

I have heard some breaders say that they would not try these again because they die

almost right after their adult molt.

P.S. you have a lot more experience then I, so every thing you say is helpful to me

 

[ismart]

Thats great news! I would leave her be another day to harden up some more, and regain some strength! This would be a bad time to stress her out!