communal living

[Bloodtkr]

I saw some talk of communal set ups today. Just be careful. I just got 5 boxers yesterday i seperated 1 and had to go somewhere so i left the other 4 together ( L2 ) When i got home today i looked in the container and counted 3. I seperated those 3 and dumped the container on the counter to find a tiny head with antennae and the 2 huge claws nothing else ; ( I even dumped a bunch of fruit flies in but guess it didnt matter.

 

[Krissim Klaw]

Mantises are only communal up until someone decides they rather eat their neighbor rather than claw dance with them. They are all oppurtunistic hunters. Some species are more timid/prefer to eat smaller prey, and thus more apt to not fuss with fellow mantis, but even then things can go south. I tend to find communal setups best if you are keeping 10 plus in larger set ups and aren't going to mind when the inevitable losses occur.

 

[Bloodtkr]

I agree big time..to me its one kid one home ; )

 

[mushroom]

What a shame, Bloodtkr. That's a rough way to find out your mantids are not communal. Maybe some boxers are more communal than others. There are a few mantids known as boxers. Which particular species do you have?

 

[Bloodtkr]

Hestiasula major

 

[PlayingMantis]

Sorry to hear that! I find H. major to be extremely cannibalistic. I kept my nymphs together in groups of 5's until I started finding claws, legs, and heads on the bottom of the containers. And be careful when mating them - the female showed extreme aggression towards the male when I introduced the pair too early.

I've seen cannibalism in other more "communal" mantids like ghosts. It seems like no matter how much you feed them, one of them might be in a bad mood one day and chomp on a neighbor.

 

[Vespertino]

How communal are Carolinas? I've got two young ones in a big tank that I took to work as office mascots, they seem better with more space (less boxing matches) but I'm curious about whether they're not going to keep their distance or get territorial as they get bigger.

 

[CosbyArt]

How communal are Carolinas? I've got two young ones in a big tank that I took to work as office mascots, they seem better with more space (less boxing matches) but I'm curious about whether they're not going to keep their distance or get territorial as they get bigger.

Edit: I see you are already doing it. Your best bet is to separate them into two tanks, or use a tank divider in the middle that completely blocks them from going to the other side (use hot glue to secure any openings around the divider).

Not at all in my experience. Although, It's said that all nymphs can live together before their first molt to L2, with plenty of room and space (with Asian and Chinese mantises being the most cannibalistic).

Usually within just 2 to 3 days after hatching any species I've hatched, all start to turn cannibalistic on each other, even with plenty of food, space, perches, etc. Just over a week their numbers start to dwindle (through cannibalism, and birthing issues). Then near their first molt, about 2 weeks, their numbers are far less than when they hatched - like only 10% remaining or even less.

For Carolina mantids they can only be housed for up to a week (bottom of first page, seems to be my experience too) once they hatch - after that expect them to be highly cannibalistic. Any mantid stage from L2 to adult, it seems they will kill each other no matter what. Depending on their personalities they may make it longer together but they will eventually turn on each other.

So if you are hatching them I recommend you feed them Melanogaster ff's by the 2nd day, then separate them to individual cups by the 5th day. The fatal nymphs (birthing defects, weak, etc.) will mainly be dead by the 5th day, and the remaining nymphs have a good chance of surviving to adults in individual habitats - this will save you a lot of effort of separating the fatal nymphs as well into individual cups as they would not survive no matter if they are separated earlier or the amount of food/care received.

If you are talking about housing them together, forget it. You will only soon have one left if even that (as one of the dead mantids may have landed a slow fatal blow to the last one before it died).

 

[ArvadaLanee]

So is the general opinion that communal housing is always a no-no? I was reading up on the ghosts, and wondering how much space you'd need to safely house 2 together, but maybe that is a bad idea?

 

[LAME]

So is the general opinion that communal housing is always a no-no? I was reading up on the ghosts, and wondering how much space you'd need to safely house 2 together, but maybe that is a bad idea?

Nahhh.... Not necessarily, theres a good handful atleast of communal mantids. Ghosts, heterochaeta, popa spurca to name a few. But regardless of how communal any species is said to be... You will have a few cannibals. It comes with the individual personalities that every life form possesses. Some may need more comfort room than others, some may just be overly aggressive, while others maybe all around calm.I'd say 10 gallon or bigger would do great for two ghosts. I'm currently working on a 29 gallon that has over 10 ghosts and have had very little issues thus far.

 

[ArvadaLanee]

Good to know.

 

[Vespertino]

For Carolina mantids they can only be housed for up to a week (bottom of first page, seems to be my experience too) once they hatch - after that expect them to be highly cannibalistic. Any mantid stage from L2 to adult, it seems they will kill each other no matter what. Depending on their personalities they may make it longer together but they will eventually turn on each other.

This was more or less my experience, too. Initially when I received about 50-80 Carolina L1s I placed them all in the same enclosure until about L3. If you keep them VERY well fed for the first molt or two you might not have too many problems, as they seemed OK in my case during that time but I was burning through wingless FFs like it was going out of style. However, as they aged to L2 - L3 they became aggressive - more territorial than cannibalistic as I made sure food was plentiful- nearing L3 the baby carolinas began "box" with each other a lot, and I started to discover headless bodies in the enclosure (with a few missing a limb or two) whenever I went to clean it. At that point I separated them and released the ones I didn't have room to keep (they're native here so that's Kosher ).