Could one raise a mantis purely through hand feeding?

[xxdreamchas3r913]

Hi everyone! It’s been many, many years since I’ve been on this forum. I used to be a fairly active member and raised and bred a number of mantids (mostly limbatas). I won’t go into my whole story, but I pretty much took an extended break from keeping mantids as, after some personal experiences, I found that I was no longer comfortable with feeding them live prey. I have since settled with just enjoying the occasional wild local specimens I find outside. I have recently been thinking about the possibility of raising mantids again, but in a way that would not require me to feed them live animals. I have heard of cases of mantids being fed freeze dried or frozen insects and I have also hand fed raw meat to my mantids on occasion in the past. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this? I don’t plan on hand feeding an L1 nymph, but I thought that maybe I could at least raise an L4-5 to adulthood purely by hand feeding dead insects and meat. I realize that this is a selfish thought and places the mantis in an even more unnatural situation, on top of already being enclosed. Indeed, this is all for selfish reasons. It’s just that mantids have always meant so much to me and it would be so wonderful just to raise one again. So I guess I’m rationalizing. But I figure that if pet owners can feed their snakes frozen pinkies and fish frozen insects, maybe I could thaw some frozen insects and dangle them on a string for a mantis to “hunt”? Any advice, experience, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I just don’t want this to turn into an ethical debate, if possible. Thank you all so much, looking forward to some feedback

 

[TheWolven]

Hi everyone! It’s been many, many years since I’ve been on this forum. I used to be a fairly active member and raised and bred a number of mantids (mostly limbatas). I won’t go into my whole story, but I pretty much took an extended break from keeping mantids as, after some personal experiences, I found that I was no longer comfortable with feeding them live prey. I have since settled with just enjoying the occasional wild local specimens I find outside. I have recently been thinking about the possibility of raising mantids again, but in a way that would not require me to feedI them live animals. I have heard of cases of mantids being fed freeze dried or frozen insects and I have also hand fed raw meat to my mantids on occasion in the past. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this? I don’t plan on hand feeding an L1 nymph, but I thought that maybe I could at least raise an L4-5 to adulthood purely by hand feeding dead insects and meat. I realize that this is a selfish thought and places the mantis in an even more unnatural situation, on top of already being enclosed. Indeed, this is all for selfish reasons. It’s just that mantids have always meant so much to me and it would be so wonderful just to raise one again. So I guess I’m rationalizing. But I figure that if pet owners can feed their snakes frozen pinkies and fish frozen insects, maybe I could thaw some frozen insects and dangle them on a string for a mantis to “hunt”? Any advice, experience, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I just don’t want this to turn into an ethical debate, if possible. Thank you all so much, looking forward to some feedback

Are you fine with decapitating an insect? When I am low on feeders and need a quick fix, I'll just snip the head off a dubia and shove it in my mantis' face.

 

[xxdreamchas3r913]

Are you fine with decapitating an insect? When I am low on feeders and need a quick fix, I'll just snip the head off a dubia and shove it in my mantis' face.

Thanks for the reply! Is the reason you do that to stimulate the mantis’ appetite? Because dubias don’t bite right? In any case, I am fine with that as long as the insect is already dead. I just don’t want to be directly involved in the death of the insect…So I was thinking of just ordering frozen feeders and thawing them before hand feeding? Thinking of tying a small string to the feeder so as to better simulate moving prey too.

 

[Ckowsky]

Thanks for the reply! Is the reason you do that to stimulate the mantis’ appetite? Because dubias don’t bite right? In any case, I am fine with that as long as the insect is already dead. I just don’t want to be directly involved in the death of the insect…So I was thinking of just ordering frozen feeders and thawing them before hand feeding? Thinking of tying a small string to the feeder so as to better simulate moving prey too.

Dubias won't bite; I'd personally be more concerned with the mantis being picky about food preferences. I've tong fed dozens of times; sometimes its immediately successful, other times I'm twirling the bug around for ages, other times it won't work unless the bug is actively moving around and enticing the mantis, sometimes just having a cut dubia and holding the innards up to the mantis entices it to start eating.

Perhaps you could get lucky with a voracious eater and be fine; but I also want to caution in the case that the frozen/thawed meals just aren't stimulating enough for the mantis.

 

[Ckowsky]

I may be overthinking this a bit; but another issue with freeze-dried is that the crickets are often gut-loaded for a reptiles nutritional needs. Also, they're lacking moisture; many predatory insects get their water (other than from drinking) from freshly-killed prey.
Respectfully, I'm not sure what is a good middle ground, if there is one, on this topic.

 

[xxdreamchas3r913]

Dubias won't bite; I'd personally be more concerned with the mantis being picky about food preferences. I've tong fed dozens of times; sometimes its immediately successful, other times I'm twirling the bug around for ages, other times it won't work unless the bug is actively moving around and enticing the mantis, sometimes just having a cut dubia and holding the innards up to the mantis entices it to start eating.

Perhaps you could get lucky with a voracious eater and be fine; but I also want to caution in the case that the frozen/thawed meals just aren't stimulating enough for the mantis.

Those are some great points and I appreciate your insight into this! It might be best for me to experiment with keeping a wild caught local mantis so that in the case that the feedings aren’t very successful, I can safely release it. Thank you so much for sharing your experience

 

[xxdreamchas3r913]

I may be overthinking this a bit; but another issue with freeze-dried is that the crickets are often gut-loaded for a reptiles nutritional needs. Also, they're lacking moisture; many predatory insects get their water (other than from drinking) from freshly-killed prey.
Respectfully, I'm not sure what is a good middle ground, if there is one, on this topic.

You raise another good point! Perhaps I could try soaking the feeders in some water for a bit and/or supplementing the mantid’s diet with the occasional fruit?

 

[TheWolven]

You raise another good point! Perhaps I could try soaking the feeders in some water for a bit and/or supplementing the mantid’s diet with the occasional fruit?

Ahhh no. Fruit is exactly what mantises do not need. Praying mantises are obligate carnivores and their digestive system is not built to process anything other than prey really. What you could do is simply buy dubia roaches, gutload them, freeze them to euthanize them, and thaw them out. Then from there you kinda just chase your mantis around and shove the juicy white-meaty part of the roach into their mouth. If you're going to get a mantis, I recommend getting a large kind like H. majuscula (S. limbata works too) with a high prey drive. I just hope you're up to having roach guts flung at you if your mantis decides to throw a tantrum.

 

[ANTdrew]

Keep an ant colony. The best thing about them is they do not need live prey. Plus a colony can live for years and years.

 

[Introvertebrate]

Lots of herbivores to choose from. Roaches, millipedes, isopods.

 

[xxdreamchas3r913]

Ahhh no. Fruit is exactly what mantises do not need. Praying mantises are obligate carnivores and their digestive system is not built to process anything other than prey really. What you could do is simply buy dubia roaches, gutload them, freeze them to euthanize them, and thaw them out. Then from there you kinda just chase your mantis around and shove the juicy white-meaty part of the roach into their mouth. If you're going to get a mantis, I recommend getting a large kind like H. majuscula (S. limbata works too) with a high prey drive. I just hope you're up to having roach guts flung at you if your mantis decides to throw a tantrum.

Ahhh no. Fruit is exactly what mantises do not need. Praying mantises are obligate carnivores and their digestive system is not built to process anything other than prey really. What you could do is simply buy dubia roaches, gutload them, freeze them to euthanize them, and thaw them out. Then from there you kinda just chase your mantis around and shove the juicy white-meaty part of the roach into their mouth. If you're going to get a mantis, I recommend getting a large kind like H. majuscula (S. limbata works too) with a high prey drive. I just hope you're up to having roach guts flung at you if your mantis decides to throw a tantrum.

Thanks for your input and species suggestions! Yea, I would probably need to get a pretty voracious female to make this work. I wouldn’t want to euthanize the dubias, tho, as that would defeat the whole purpose of this thought experiment. As for the fruit, I know that certain mantids have been known to nibble on fruit (likely for the water content), but it wouldn’t be a substantial part of my hypothetical mantis’s hypothetical diet, just a supplement. But it’s also just a thought and may not be practical. Sigh, I know I’m making this overly complicated on myself. It might just not be meant to be but I will keep looking into options.

 

[xxdreamchas3r913]

Keep an ant colony. The best thing about them is they do not need live prey. Plus a colony can live for years and years.

Lots of herbivores to choose from. Roaches, millipedes, isopods.

Thank you for the suggestions; I am considering a roach as well but it’s just that I’ve been obsessed with mantises since childhood and they really hold a special place in my heart… I tell people that it’s my spirit animal haha. So I dream of being able to keep one again, somehow. But perhaps it’s just not possible. I can keep you guys updated on any developments! The perfect scenario would be to one day own a house with a large garden in which I can distribute dozens of ooths so that I can have a healthy population of mantises to look at everyday lmao

 

[VerminLord]

I hand feed all my mantids when I am feeding stuff that dosn't fly. Definately can be done, but without juicy, freshly killed and oozing feeders to entice their feeding response they are apt to avoid the food or slap it out of your hand, so it will be somewhat time consuming although with only 1 or 2 Mantids definitely doable. I would try adding moisture by dipping the freeze-dried feeders into water or something. I freaking hate killing stuff off to feed. Hell, I hate feeding off animals at all. Almost ruins the hobby for me, but not quite. Personally, I feel like every mealworm has its own personality! My animal empathy is off the charts, but as an animal lover I don't see any way around it, unless I go for all plant eaters and then even plants strive to live.

 

[TheWolven]

I hand feed all my mantids when I am feeding stuff that dosn't fly. Definately can be done, but without juicy, freshly killed and oozing feeders to entice their feeding response they are apt to avoid the food or slap it out of your hand, so it will be somewhat time consuming although with only 1 or 2 Mantids definitely doable. I would try adding moisture by dipping the freeze-dried feeders into water or something. I freaking hate killing stuff off to feed. Hell, I hate feeding off animals at all. Almost ruins the hobby for me, but not quite. Personally, I feel like every mealworm has its own personality! My animal empathy is off the charts, but as an animal lover I don't see any way around it, unless I go for all plant eaters and then even plants strive to live.

Exoterra does sell pre-packaged grasshoppers that have been cooked! I was able to sort of get my H. majscula to eat some of it.

 

[xxdreamchas3r913]

Exoterra does sell pre-packaged grasshoppers that have been cooked! I was able to sort of get my H. majscula to eat some of it.

Yea!!! I actually just came across another brand (Fluker’s) with canned pasteurized feeders. They have dubias, grasshoppers, crickets, mealworms, etc. The nutrition breakdown indicates about 60% moisture so water shouldn’t be a problem. It’ll be mostly just getting my mantis to eat lol. I plan on going to the annual bug fair at the LA NHM next weekend and will keep an eye out for some H majusculas and maybe some fresh frozen feeders that I can thaw too. Wish me luck

 

[xxdreamchas3r913]

I hand feed all my mantids when I am feeding stuff that dosn't fly. Definately can be done, but without juicy, freshly killed and oozing feeders to entice their feeding response they are apt to avoid the food or slap it out of your hand, so it will be somewhat time consuming although with only 1 or 2 Mantids definitely doable. I would try adding moisture by dipping the freeze-dried feeders into water or something. I freaking hate killing stuff off to feed. Hell, I hate feeding off animals at all. Almost ruins the hobby for me, but not quite. Personally, I feel like every mealworm has its own personality! My animal empathy is off the charts, but as an animal lover I don't see any way around it, unless I go for all plant eaters and then even plants strive to live.

Ohh thank you for your reply and yea, it sounds like you can relate! I’m glad to know that you have had success with hand feeding. I don’t mind if it’s time consuming! If it’s a large dubia, I probably would only have to feed once every 2-3 days anyway. And either way, the joy of being able to keep a mantis again would outweigh any trouble. I just hope that I get a big hungry girl that isn’t very picky Don’t plan on more than 1 for now. I’ll have to see if this plan is sustainable first! Thank you again

 

[agent A]

ok lemme put in my 2-cents
is it POSSIBLE to rear a mantis through hand-feeding alone? probably
i do not see how you will pull it off, even with just a single mantis
let's pretend you're starting with a 2nd instar of a large species, one that, on the 2nd instar, is fine eating a housefly, small cricket, tiny roach, etc
we run into the first problem. how are you going to obtain the proper food? are you maintaining the colony of prey and pre-killing, or are you getting already dead prey? if the prey is already dead, was it flash-frozen and freeze-dried? if so, how will you rehydrate it? don't soak it in water, as that won't do the job. I mean, sure, water will enter the body cavity, but it won't be taken up by the tissues very efficiently. slightly alkaline water may be useful for helping rehydrate the animal, but you run into the issue of whether or not that alkaline water is healthy for the mantis. I'm going to say probably not. Remember, the insect, when alive, has a series of homeostatic mechanisms for delivering water to its tissues that aren't there any longer when the animal is dead
and then we get into the issue of the dead prey starting to rot. if it isn't fed off immediately, bacteria or fungus that can poison your mantis will take hold, pretty rapidly actually. do you know how filthy those facilities where they process and freeze-dry stuff are?
aside from that, we get into the issue of transient gut microbes. these are literally microbes present on/in the prey item that actually assist in the mantis absorbing essential nutrients. they're called transients because they're pooped out with the food bolus when it's done processing in the mantis. those won't be present in freeze-dried prey items, and they're more or less vital for the mantis.
the last thing I'd be concerned about with freeze-dried prey is the loss of water-soluble vitamins. yes yes, freeze drying does retain the MAJORITY of the nutrients there, but chronic undernutrition of something can still case difficulty

I really don't recommend going this route. Mantises evolved specifically to utilize the nutrients from living prey
there's an article on using AD for Miomantis, lemme go find it, but I think they found fecundity and survival rates were higher on live prey

 

[happy1892]

Some species of mantises are easier to hand feed than others. The more aggressive African mantises are easier to hand feed. Watch your fingers incase they try to grab and chew on your fingers!

 

[TheWolven]

Thank you for the suggestions; I am considering a roach as well but it’s just that I’ve been obsessed with mantises since childhood and they really hold a special place in my heart… I tell people that it’s my spirit animal haha. So I dream of being able to keep one again, somehow. But perhaps it’s just not possible. I can keep you guys updated on any developments! The perfect scenario would be to one day own a house with a large garden in which I can distribute dozens of ooths so that I can have a healthy population of mantises to look at everyday lmao

Alright so I dragged in our local scientist to give their two cents. I didn't really want to say it outright, but I need to. The route you want to take would seriously harm any mantises you keep. By not feeding them proper food, they will never thrive and will likely die. If you are not able to properly give your mantises the food they need, then you should not own one. It's the same thing as a dog or cat. If you cannot provide the correct environment for them to thrive, then you do not need to be owning one. Mantises are predators first and foremost.

Perhaps if you are able to have little porch garden or garden area, you can enjoy them again. Females tend to stick to one general area, especially when fed.

 

[agent A]

Alright so I dragged in our local scientist to give their two cents. I didn't really want to say it outright, but I need to. The route you want to take would seriously harm any mantises you keep. By not feeding them proper food, they will never thrive and will likely die. If you are not able to properly give your mantises the food they need, then you should not own one. It's the same thing as a dog or cat. If you cannot provide the correct environment for them to thrive, then you do not need to be owning one. Mantises are predators first and foremost.

Perhaps if you are able to have little porch garden or garden area, you can enjoy them again. Females tend to stick to one general area, especially when fed.

well, @hierodula is far more a mantis scientist than I am. I dabble in them with my insect nutrition work but the majority of my publications are on the Lepidoptera
this summer I'll be doing botany field work too! woo