Crossbreeding

[PseudoDave]

Dog breeds, are not different species, My bull terriers are as much 'dog', as a great dane, dogs are dogs, the same way people are people but with variations.

It's just my personal view that if something was not designed to meet something else in the wild, it shouldn't happen. You'll also have the problems of one mantis potentially having an immunity to something that the other parent doesnt, what happens to the poor little ones? They may get the best of both worlds, they may get neither.

 

[jandl2204]

That is fair enough. But i don't think any of them were designed to live withing any of my containers either. Regardless the mantids livein an artificial envionment and are bombarded with bacteia and viruses which they would never encounter in the wild. lets just hope that it works out. Ill be using sp which have simiar characteristics etc so we will see, i don't want to argue over this now, if i get around to the project ill provided the results along with any failures.

Cheers Lee

 

[PseudoDave]

Nobody was arguing i was stating my reasons for why i think it's a bad idea. You're correct the containers wouldnt have been encountered, but thats not what this is about, it's about meeting another species, that's all.

 

[Jesse]

I suggest that all of you interested in crossbreeding read some invertebrate biology and genetics books. Having an imagination is healthy, wasting your time may not be.

 

[Ian]

well said

 

[jandl2204]

I suggest that all of you interested in crossbreeding read some invertebrate biology and genetics books. Having an imagination is healthy, wasting your time may not be.

lol, yea true, I have an A at A level biology fairly good grounding on the subject to start off a project, my friend is also studying towards his PhD in environmental sciences so together I should think my imagination and my knowledge will yield some good results.

--- When looking at the module marks for my a level genes and genetic engineering was at 96% ---

Lee

 

[ellroy]

Hi Lee,

Well done on your good grades! I'm sure you've also noticed that a lot of scientific research starts with someone elses proven ideas so it can be a real asset to take on board suggestions from other experienced people.

It's understandable that some people are opposed to the idea of cross-breeding ( I personally don't think it's very productive but thats just my opinion ) but fair play if you want to research it. I would say though that one of the fundamentals of your idea is breeding different species although you seem unclear about exactly what defines a species. If you expect your research to have any kind of credibility you will need to be pretty clear about the basic facts.

Hope you can take this as constructive critisism rather than a personal attack which it is sincerely not meant to be.

Good luck

Alan

 

[jandl2204]

he is an idea of what ill be doing and a SHORT methodology

Here’s a nomenclature format which may seem a little daunting, but will help in the long run, especially when you consider your working at a generation level over many months:

Here’s your starter combinations:

Male Sphodromantis (Sm) + Female Bud Wing (Bf) = (SmBf)

But also do

Female Sphodromantis (Sf) + Male Bud Wing (Bm) = (SfBm)

Why?

(SmBf) may prove to be sterile, but you may be able to breed with (SfBm)

Genetics are often sex related.

For your next crosses you want to go backwards :

So for male (SmBf)m

(SmBf)m + Sf = (SmBf Sf)x but also do (SmBf)m + Bf = (SmBf Bf)x

Then female (SmBf)f

(SmBf)f + Sm = (SmBfSm)x but also do (SmBf)f + Bm = (SmBf Bm)x

Where X equals the new sex

Lee. has this cleared some of my project up?

i dodn't actually mention what i am doing other than that i am going to attempt a crossbreeding program.

 

[Andrew]

Like Jesse said, you are waisting your time...and your definately not going to get any offspring from a sphodromantis x parasphendale mating.

Its more complicated than just getting them to mate.

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[Jesse]

I was thinking of breeding some norway rats with grey squirrels to see if I can get rats with puffy tails that can jump from branch to branch.

Maybe you should start by looking up Ernst Mayr's Biological Species Concept.

You should also know that some species in the genera Parasphendale and Sphodromantis have overlapping distributions.

Crossbreeding within genera has been done. Stagmomantis limbata and carolina have been crossed with almost no offspring resulting, the offspring that did hatch died shortly after. I have unknowingly (at the time) crossed two Sphodromantis species, The oothecae did hatch but the resulting offspring ended up being sterile. I wouldn't expect intergeneric crossbreeding to have better results (if any results)

 

[jandl2204]

''Its more complicated than just getting them to mate''

:roll: I already know. Do you critics understand I said this is a project! And the sphod and bud wing were used as an example. You should not be too quick to assume as you may start to look foolish.

If I were to take you serious then where would that get me? By not attempting anything I would get nowhere. I have read all the applicable literature and will continue to do so, but you have been too quick to assume that it will fail; some of you seem very pessimistic. pessimistic or apathetic can't decide.

fair point that it may like fail but at least i will attempt something.

Baaah

Lee

 

[nickyp0]

it works for dogs,cats,birds,moths,and butterflies why not mantids?

 

[Jesse]

it works for dogs,cats,birds,moths,and butterflies why not mantids?

As mentioned before, all domestic cats are of the same species Felis catus, all domestic dogs are of the same species Canis familiaris, and with birds, moths, and butterflies, only subspecies and intrageneric crosses have been done (in captivity or naturally in the wild). In nearly all the intrageneric crosses, the resulting offspring were sterile. As i mentioned previously, intrageneric crosses have been done with mantids with poor results, besides what is the point of crossbreeding two species that look very much alike(in the same genus), unless you are trying to prove they are of the same species or different subspecies of the same species?

 

[yen_saw]

Jesse, you have pointed out all the reasons. Just let them try it out and see if there is actually any feedback.

 

[jandl2204]

Yen, that was the point, lets not bother pointing out flaws when no one in this forum knows the outcome. :wink:

Lee

 

[Jesse]

Jesse, you have pointed out all the reasons. Just let them try it out and see if there is actually any feedback.

I hear you Yen, I just didn't want someone to waste their time, but hey it isn't my time being wasted is it? I guess that is the only way some people learn. I also was trying to give people facts instead of speculation. But hey, what could an entomologist like me know?

 

[Ian]

yeah jesse..you know nothing..id leave it off...

 

[Johnald Chaffinch]

i know an easy way round this - slice their heads off and swap em over.

 

[jandl2204]

i do like your style john!!

But hey, what could an entomologist like me know???? curious what qualifications do you hold then? didn't know there were ''entomologists'' on this forum.

Lee.

btw i wont be wasting my time i find breeding fairly easy, rather than posting i could just spend the spare time on the hobby, simple.

 

[yen_saw]

Lee, i believed Jesse intention is good. The time is all yours, you can use it anyway you want. But personally i will only breed the species of the same kind. Horse + Donkey = Mule. I am sure this has been done before for mantis. I am also not an entomologist.