Diapausing Empusa Pennata Help?

[gripen]

No problem with being in total darkness for 08 weeks? Also, is this a modified fridge for hibernation that runs in the 50F range or did you just pop them in next to your milk?

They are supposed to have a reduced photo-period anyways.

 

[agent A]

They are supposed to have a reduced photo-period anyways.

yeah photoperiod is more important than temperaturewhy do u think trees and insects dont awaken on warm winter days or die off again from late spring frosts? its all in the photoperiod

 

[Danny.]

I put some in the fridge and they survived.They are not even lethargic because of the cold,i am really surprised.

How long where they in the fridge? What temps?

 

[glock34girl]

They are supposed to have a reduced photo-period anyways.

Hey Gripen: reduced yes but obsolete? Just curious. It doesn't go dark in the wild for the 08 weeks so I was curious if that trips things up. I know the reduction in daylight hours triggers the diapause but total darkness for 08 weeks seems odd. But that's just me.

 

[psyconiko]

I hit up Christian on UKMF and here's what he told me.

Hi.

You should use °C, I am not familiar with F. Anyway, you can grow them up warm to hot until they are subadult. This is normally the diapause stage in Europe. I suppose you can grow them outside in CA all the time, in a mesh cage or similar. Just avoid frost and don't let them escape. If kept outside, they grow at the natural rhythm. If you keep them inside, they tend to grow faster, sometimes too fast, so they reach subadult stage too early. You can only grow them without diapause in a windowless chamber at 12/12 day cycle, otherwise they use daylength as diapause trigger.

Greets,

C.

No,they do not diapause at subadult in Europe,but around L4.You cannot grow them in South california all time as they need diapausing.But that may work in San Franciso area.

They can frost.Temp in the South of France can go below 0°C Its getting cold from november to April.Dont know about light but indeed hours of light should be reduced during winter period.

Temps in summer are around 35-40°C

Temp in my fridge around 5-7°C

 

[glock34girl]

5C is like... 41F I think (not good with math). Anyhow, how long did you diapause? The full 08 weeks, Nikko?

 

[agent A]

5C is like... 41F I think (not good with math). Anyhow, how long did you diapause? The full 08 weeks, Nikko?

I would reason to think so but my suggestion is slowly reduce the photoperiod to 9 hours a day at room temp first (losing an hour a month) then put them in a cool area for 6-8 weeks and then slowly bringing it back up to 12 or so

 

[psyconiko]

What you suggest Agent A seems good but in that case it is going to take a while before they reach adulthood.I am planning to diapause them for a month max see what happens.Anyway I have like 100 nymphs so i will try different things.

 

[agent A]

What you suggest Agent A seems good but in that case it is going to take a while before they reach adulthood.I am planning to diapause them for a month max see what happens.Anyway I have like 100 nymphs so i will try different things.

what if u tried to start decreasing light cycles at L1 or L2 so by L4 its low enough for them to diapause??

 

[glock34girl]

What you suggest Agent A seems good but in that case it is going to take a while before they reach adulthood.I am planning to diapause them for a month max see what happens.Anyway I have like 100 nymphs so i will try different things.

ohhh I thought it was a successful diapause. Sounds like its not quite figured out or maybe still experimenting. Cool. Compare notes soon.

 

[sally]

It would be nice to start an Empusa Pennata consolidated. So much good info and new things in this thread. Good luck with them

 

[Danny.]

ohhh I thought it was a successful diapause. Sounds like its not quite figured out or maybe still experimenting. Cool. Compare notes soon.

That's what I thought too! Lol I have so many, guess I have to experiment.

 

[ShieldMantid1997]

What would happen if you never diapause them. What i mean by this is what would be the outcome if you didn't cool them ever?

 

[agent A]

What would happen if you never diapause them. What i mean by this is what would be the outcome if you didn't cool them ever?

maybe they wont breed properlly as adults??

 

[gripen]

maybe they wont breed properlly as adults??

The last gen was not diapaused.

 

[agent A]

The last gen was not diapaused.

seasonal bivoltinism can explain that, but can multiple non-diapausing generations be maintained??

 

[glock34girl]

The last gen was not diapaused.

Artificially no, but in the wild they would have been, would't they? Can you explain your thought?

 

[gripen]

Artificially no, but in the wild they would have been, would't they? Can you explain your thought?

They were captive breed and not diapaused last year correct?

 

[Precarious]

It would seem that in order to properly diapause one would need to invest in a wine chiller. Many have a clear glass door to allow light in. You could set the temp to 50 and keep it covered for most of the day to control light period. I don't see any other way to do it.

I would warn against the use of fans to lower temp in any way, even if they blow cool air, as additional air movement will quickly dehydrate the nymphs.

It would be advisable that someone attempt diapause by light control exclusively to see if that is enough. It may be shorted periods of light alone can accomplish the necessary perception of diapause although I kind of doubt it. Cooler temps would reduce metabolism which may be an important part of the process.

 

[glock34girl]

It would seem that in order to properly diapause one would need to invest in a wine chiller. Many have a clear glass door to allow light in. You could set the temp to 50 and keep it covered for most of the day to control light period. I don't see any other way to do it.

I would warn against the use of fans to lower temp in any way, even if they blow cool air, as additional air movement will quickly dehydrate the nymphs.

It would be advisable that someone attempt diapause by light control exclusively to see if that is enough. It may be shorted periods of light alone can accomplish the necessary perception of diapause although I kind of doubt it. Cooler temps would reduce metabolism which may be an important part of the process.

I agree. All the lit I have read indicates that the light signals the diapause and the temps do the rest and the minimum is 08 weeks. I think a wine cooler with an open face and led strips is prob the way to go.