Does collecting mass amounts of ooths affect the population of the species?

[jsorigami]

Hello everyone,

I sometimes see photos of people who collect mass amounts of ooths (50+) of a mantis species. Now this question doesn't refer to common species (t.sinesis, Carolina mantis, etc).. Would taking a mass amounts of ooths affect the population of the mantis? Don't worry, I don't plan on doing this. I'm just wondering because I see it sometimes. I could understand taking 1-5 ooths but 50 ooths has to take a toll on the species. I may be wrong, that's just my opinion. Feel free to share your thoughts, thanks.

 

[Aryia]

Everything that we do as humans ends up having a huge impact on the environment. From over-harvesting natural resources to breeding insects and releasing non-native species that destroy existing ecosystems. So yes, eventually it will cause a toll on the species. Collecting ooths, trapping and killing individuals, as well as destruction of their natural habitat. 1-5 oothecas may not sound like much, but if it's 1-5 oothecas per person and every person in the area went to search for ooths... that's a different story.

 

[jsorigami]

100% agree with you. We've already destroyed too much of this earth. I mean it's one thing to take individuals (which if everyone did, would cause much harm) but taking ooths damages the future generation of the species.

 

[MantidBro]

Completely agree with you guys. I think that's unnecessary to take so many oothecae. The pest population will go up in that area. But also, I just consider it to be kind of cruel. Now all those nymphs will either die or will be captivated rather than free. I mean collecting a few seems okay, especially around an area where people don't even KNOW what an ootheca is, but to take an excessive amount, especially of a rare species, doesn't feel right to me. I suppose I agree with how the native americans were. As much as they took from the Earth, they returned to the Earth.

There's a spot near my house where I'd found 20 Tenodera sinensis oothecae (and those are only the ones I could see). I took 10 and left the rest, but I've only kept 6 nymphs from the first 5 that hatched, and released the rest of the nymphs in my backyard. So now there will be some mantids still in the area that I'd found the oothecae, and also there will now be some in my backyard. I've spread them around which I really don't think is a hindrance. Spreading them around might be good actually. My neighbor has a garden plus there are way too many mosquitoes back there, so I think they'll not only be useful, but they'll be happy and healthy.

Ones that I'd released a month ago are still back there. Who knew mantids would be so likely to remain on the same bush I'd released them on?

 

[jsorigami]

Totally agree with that. It seems wrong and cruel to me.. Just came across a photo of about 35 wild collected ooths of a rare species. As well as many more ooths of different species in the photo (all wild collected). There won't be any left eventually if we continue at this rate..

 

[MantidBro]

Totally agree with that. It seems wrong and cruel to me.. Just came across a photo of about 35 wild collected ooths of a rare species. As well as many more ooths of different species in the photo (all wild collected). There won't be any left eventually if we continue at this rate..

Where'd you see that, eBay? I'd seen so many for sale on eBay, like hundreds, not even just 35. It's pretty sad that the money means so much to them that they're taking so many oothecae from the wild to sell them to people who may not even know what they're doing.

 

[jsorigami]

I saw it on Facebook. I'll PM you it! Anyway it's even more sad when half these species are already struggling for other reasons (mainly habitat loss). I feel as some of these species will fall the same fate as the Leaf Tailed Gecko is going, as well as the Slow Loris and many other primates and birds.

 

[MantidBro]

I saw it on Facebook. I'll PM you it! Anyway it's even more sad when half these species are already struggling for other reasons (mainly habitat loss). I feel as some of these species will fall the same fate as the Leaf Tailed Gecko is going, as well as the Slow Loris and many other primates and birds.

That would be horrible. Oye! humans!

 

[happy1892]

Everything that we do as humans ends up having a huge impact on the environment.

Hyperbole? Of course not everything we do hurts the environment. Someone told me that when the Indians in America were gone the forests started growing back and now there is more forest than there used to be here in the US. Many people think the Indians were these spiritual people who took care of the environment.

 

[meaganelise9]

Interesting topic. Makes me want to just hatch an ooth in my backyard so that I can keep enjoying them in nature instead of indoors.

 

[happy1892]

Interesting topic. Makes me want to just hatch an ooth in my backyard so that I can keep enjoying them in nature instead of indoors.

What kind of mantis? The Chinese Mantids are introduced.

 

[bobericc]

This is a matter of perspective and culture.. on one hand if you take enough ooths from the wild from a particular genus them of course you could endanger that species in that area, but you also have to think they're are some great entomologists In the world and even some skillfull hobbiest that can turn one into a dozen if taken seriously. Releasing captive bred near extinct species is being done atm with animals why not with insects? Ooths are probably not being replaced, but they should be.. I'm leaning more to captive bred, but almost anything we've aquired from captive bred ooths eventually came from a wild caught one generations down the line.. don't agree with mass ooth collecting, do agree with getting a few wild caught ones to the right people.

 

[Digger]

My nymphs love their custom housing and bountiful table of goodies, hand-served. In the wild, they work very hard for limited food and mostly become food themselves. That all said, I would never harvest more than 3 or 4 ooths from the natural habitat. However ------- let's be realistic. There are VERY few serious mantid collectors world wide. But billions of ooths worldwide.

 

[jsorigami]

Totally agree with you guys. Yes species need to be taken from the wild to start a culture, but I literally saw a photo of 75+ wild collected Malaysian ooths. Malaysia is already experiencing a mass amount of deforestation (, the rainforest there has the highest deforestation rate in the world). So species like orchid mantids and dead leaf species were likely already in decline. Collecting 75+ ooths must put that in decline even more, especially when the purpose of the collection of those ooths were not for culturing them.

 

[Addlement]

Since it's related, I thought I'd share a bit of information I've gleaned: There are many people who do rather large-scale wild collection of ooths. I can't speak for those in foreign nations, but several people I have spoken with actually have large tracts of planted forest (usually monocultures of low-growing trees/shrubs) that they constantly "seed" on a massive scale with the mantises in mind and thus are left with tens of thousands of ootheca across every acre. I know of one in particular in South Carolina that actually recovering strip-mined land by planting hardy shrubs and then introducing huge amounts of mantises to make it profitable. In this way, they are actually obligated to collect countless ooths to keep the balance anywhere close to normal. I have no idea how they keep prey populations high enough, but it works for them. These are all commercial operations that then package their ooths and sell them as garden pest control and such, for what it's worth.

 

[Aryia]

Hyperbole? Of course not everything we do hurts the environment. Someone told me that when the Indians in America were gone the forests started growing back and now there is more forest than there used to be here in the US. Many people think the Indians were these spiritual people who took care of the environment.

I said impact. Anything we do changes the environment, for good or bad. Though if you do want to look at it in a good/bad point of view, most of the things we as humans do is try to rectify our mistakes now. We try to clean up the air because we polluted it, we try to plant more trees because we caused massive deforestation, we control the introduction of new species to certain locations because prior introductions had horrible outcomes on natural populations. It's not just the Indians that have altered the environment, the very space you live on right now used to inhabit a variety of different species. Yet when we establish a town or city, all the pre-existing lifeforms either have to adapt to it or perish. This includes all the pollution, chemicals, and other non-native lifeforms we come with.

 

[sschind]

. I'm leaning more to captive bred, but almost anything we've aquired from captive bred ooths eventually came from a wild caught one generations down the line.. don't agree with mass ooth collecting, do agree with getting a few wild caught ones to the right people.

My feelings exactly. I have no issues with a person collecting and ooth or two for his or her own enjoyment and it is possible that it can help increase the wild population if any hatched babies are given a "head start" before being released. There are a number of native frogs and lizards that I would be interested in acquiring (Pacific tree frogs, barking tree frogs, oak toads, banded geckos, etc.) but I really do not want to support the wholesale collecting of any of these species so I am considering asking in the appropriate forums if anyone would be willing to personally collect a small number (half a dozen or so) of these species and I would pay them for their efforts plus the shipping. Its still WC but it is one guy collecting a half a dozen specimens from a place where they are locally abundant and shipping them directly to the end user. It is not a collector using various harvesting methods to collect hundreds and hundreds of specimens to be shipped to wholesalers to sit in warehouses being neglected until such time as they can be sold. I just don't know how well it would go over.

Like you said, WC can be the start of a captive population and that could be a good thing. Small scale collecting would have a minimal affect on wild population if any but large scale collecting, especially when couple with habitat loss could be another thing all together. While I am not one of these doom and gloom people who say "but what if every single person took just one animal..." mainly because every single person is not going to take one animal I will say that at one time I don't think anyone would have thought the passenger pigeon would have ever gone extinct and look what happened to the American Bison. Everything in moderation.

 

[happy1892]

Since it's related, I thought I'd share a bit of information I've gleaned: There are many people who do rather large-scale wild collection of ooths. I can't speak for those in foreign nations, but several people I have spoken with actually have large tracts of planted forest (usually monocultures of low-growing trees/shrubs) that they constantly "seed" on a massive scale with the mantises in mind and thus are left with tens of thousands of ootheca across every acre. I know of one in particular in South Carolina that actually recovering strip-mined land by planting hardy shrubs and then introducing huge amounts of mantises to make it profitable. In this way, they are actually obligated to collect countless ooths to keep the balance anywhere close to normal. I have no idea how they keep prey populations high enough, but it works for them. These are all commercial operations that then package their ooths and sell them as garden pest control and such, for what it's worth.

Ah, so that is how they do it! Thanks for telling us. Do you know what species of mantis they bred? I am thinking Chinese Mantis.

I said impact. Anything we do changes the environment, for good or bad. Though if you do want to look at it in a good/bad point of view, most of the things we as humans do is try to rectify our mistakes now. We try to clean up the air because we polluted it, we try to plant more trees because we caused massive deforestation, we control the introduction of new species to certain locations because prior introductions had horrible outcomes on natural populations. It's not just the Indians that have altered the environment, the very space you live on right now used to inhabit a variety of different species. Yet when we establish a town or city, all the pre-existing lifeforms either have to adapt to it or perish. This includes all the pollution, chemicals, and other non-native lifeforms we come with.

Sorry, I misread what you wrote. Even then it sounds like hyperbole because not everything we do has a huge impact on the environment right? And I already knew all that you wrote.

 

[Addlement]

Ah, so that is how they do it! Thanks for telling us. Do you know what species of mantis they bred? I am thinking Chinese Mantis.

Yes, yes indeed! The operation in South Carolina was entirely Chinese Mantis, as was one that was somewhere in the Midwest. There was another that just naturally had populations of Carolina Mantis and Chinese Mantis, so they just collected the ooths in two piles.

I also forgot to mention that they all relied on diapause-- they'd collect as many as they could after leaves fell off the trees, and again after the spring thaw (and would refrigerate them throughout the year to have year-long availability). I think it's a pretty neat idea, though I'm still seriously wondering about the ecological impact.