Earliest mating for a female?
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aNisip
Well-known member
The female will not allow the male to mate with her...she will rip him off before he can do anything...mantids have to wait a couple weeks before they can mate because their sexual organs are developing (maturing) during that time...
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Do you have any evidence whatsoever?
angelofdeathzz
Well-known member
Plus, she has no eggs yet, so why would she mate?
That simply is not true.
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aNisip
Well-known member
personal experience...my noob years: i was soo excited when she hit adult, i waited one day, i took my 3week old male and introduced them, and he mounted and she made him dismount and began to try to eat him ( i intervened and saved him)...then when my second female made it to adult i waited a day and then fed her a roach (because i thought preoccupying her with food would solve the problem this time)...i introduced male and he mounted, and she immediately threw thr roach down, and grabbed the male and i had to intervene yet again..then three weeks later, i tried mating them and she fully cooperated and allowed the male to mate....
I've mated mantids of more species and individuals than most anyone on this forum. I've never tried to mate females early. I was simply wondering if anyone had been successful at it. Also, I included the word teneral to refer to the initial period after the molt when other Dictyoptera mate.
Ntsees
Well-known member
I'm pretty confident the mating will fail, as it did in my one time experience. It's like trying to get a mantid to eat right after it just molted. I lost the female afterwards due to the punctures made by the male. The exoskeleton is still too vulnerable. Mantids may be insects, but they are not like other insects.
You tried a single time, consider how often that would work with any mating? The topic of the thread is reports of early mating. Mantids and cockroaches are in the same order and only recently did anyone realize teneral female mating was normal for the other Dictyoptera.
aNisip
Well-known member
i have not been successful at it...plus, in the wild where it would be nearly impossible for males to find new adult females, males wouldnt mate with a female who isnt releasing pheremones ( they couldnt find her) the glands that secreate these chemical signals are not mature until several weeks after molting to adult...(in controlled envoriments, like when we mate them, the females are visually detected by the males, that is how the males attempt to mate with a new female)
Do you have any scientific references that prove your statement about pheromone gland maturation time? (Of course this will vary by species as some of the boxers are documented to mate in six days, so if you have scientific evidence for pheromone gland maturity for a single species that would suffice.) Also, many mantids like Tenodera live in close proximity so they'd see each other.
Ntsees
Well-known member
It appears that even if others stated from their personal experience that it won't work, it seems like you'll still not be convinced. Therefore, I suggest you try it and experience it.
You don't have to be rude.
aNisip
Well-known member
.http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1801..like halfway through it explains the pheromone information (not gland maturation time, that is my AP BIology knowledge and i do not feel like citing an entire book... u can buy a subscription if you want to read it..it is in the development chapters...http://wps.aw.com/wps/media/access/Pearson_Default/1663/1703422/login.html)
from the first source "The female secretes a pheromone to attract and show that she is receptive to the mate."
from the first source "The female secretes a pheromone to attract and show that she is receptive to the mate."
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aNisip
Well-known member
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So you're saying they're 2-3 feet apart and they can't see each other?
You can locate documentation for Tenodera adult population density in Prete, Praying Mantids 1999. I can walk in the field behind my yard.
