Enviromental effect on Mantid colouration

[mr nick]

Hi everyone..im new so i thought id begin with a thought provoking topic.

We all know that humidity can,and will effect the colouration of certain mantid species,but i often wonder if it is the dominant gene that controls colour (eg brown male sphodromantis x green female may produce a large percentage of brown adults) or indeed the enviroment?

Some time ago,i purchased around ten Sphodromantis Rubrastigma nymphs (approx L3) which were the most vivid green i have ever come across,but all but one remained green when adult,the rest being a light brown colour. The green colour was evident up to the last moult,and all individuals were kept in containers with green artificial plants. I have also noticed that nymphs transported in polystyrene cups colour 'down ' somewhat when introduced to a decorated containers.....

 

[pedro92]

I agree and also disagree. For example.... Chinese mantids are commonly brown with the green stripe but all chinese i have seen that have been exposed to sun for a long period have all been green..... so i put a uvb light above the cage of a chinese mantis and it turned green after awhile. I also had an ooth hatch i took half and did no uvb and half with uvb and the ones with the light turned green and the half w/o the light were brown. I have tried this with a few other mantids and have not came up with a conclusion yet. I have my ghosts under the light but they are still 3 black and 1 reddish brown. I will be putting a stronger uvb light soon to compare results. When my ghost ooths hatch i will try this theory. As i have not got a lot of mantids yet i havent been able to test the humidity and gene theory yet..... but that will come soon. So i would try a uvb light and let me know what you come up with.

 

[mr nick]

I agree and also disagree. For example.... Chinese mantids are commonly brown with the green stripe but all chinese i have seen that have been exposed to sun for a long period have all been green..... so i put a uvb light above the cage of a chinese mantis and it turned green after awhile. I also had an ooth hatch i took half and did no uvb and half with uvb and the ones with the light turned green and the half w/o the light were brown. I have tried this with a few other mantids and have not came up with a conclusion yet. I have my ghosts under the light but they are still 3 black and 1 reddish brown. I will be putting a stronger uvb light soon to compare results. When my ghost ooths hatch i will try this theory. As i have not got a lot of mantids yet i havent been able to test the humidity and gene theory yet..... but that will come soon. So i would try a uvb light and let me know what you come up with.

Hmm..thats quite interesting as uvb is constant to most living creatures. With regards to the ghosts-have you tried an experiment with humidity at all? One would expect that most mantids would colour to their surroundings where applicable. I just dont understand why my rubrastigma were vivid green right up to the final moult when they turned brown??? Maybe it is genetic,and while the mantids are nymphs maybe it is more viable to be green than brown,ha,ha...Either way,its certainly an interesting topic and with reference to your chinese mantids,i once aquired a batch of nymphs (hatched in the UK) that were all green and indeed changed to the standard (brown) colour as the matured...grrrrr!

 

[pedro92]

I am going to try humidity, uvb, and surrounding green, and 1 test with all of them together. So i will hopefully have a few results. I wish someone studied this so we would know. My chinese have stayed green there whole life while under UVB. But still not sure.

 

[Christian]

Be careful with UV-B lamps, they can do some damage to living matter.

The color in mantids is clearly not genetically determined. However, in those species that are polymorph, the ability to adapt colors should be.

There were already threads on this topic. To make it short, mainly three factors are responsible, often in combination or with different relative importance: light intensity and spectrum, humidity and color of the environment. Some species react more to humidity, others to light intensity. And, not all tested mantids change the color. If you try to get them green, you will always get also brown ones. And vice versa.

 

[mr nick]

Be careful with UV-B lamps, they can do some damage to living matter. The color in mantids is clearly not genetically determined. However, in those species that are polymorph, the ability to adapt colors should be.

There were already threads on this topic. To make it short, mainly three factors are responsible, often in combination or with different relative importance: light intensity and spectrum, humidity and color of the environment. Some species react more to humidity, others to light intensity. And, not all tested mantids change the color. If you try to get them green, you will always get also brown ones. And vice versa.

Yes,im sure id read that somewhere..my question now is what do you use? Have you tried uvb at all? Personally,i use a standard cheap 'white' light as i get them for next to nothing,ha,ha,but as we all know nothing shows mantids off like natural sunlight..with regard to Pnigomantis,i see that adults seem to have one dominant colour pattern but nymphs are different colours?

 

[Christian]

I don't care much about the lamps I use - mostly halogene lamps and others which provide some radiation, often in combination with fluorescent lamps. I don't make color experiments at moment. However, I use living plants whereever possible.

 

[darkspeed]

I know that keeping ghost males in high humidity and a dark colored invironment didnt have any noticable impact, as both were nearly black as nymphs and one stayed dark chrimson and the other turned light brown... but neither turned green cuz only ghost females turn green. Orchid mantids are known for turning pink when kept in a pink environment... though I dont know whether they turn yellow in a yellow environment or green in green. But I have seen white, pink, yellow and slightly green orchid mantids, so it is possible.

 

[pedro92]

Ok, So my friend Dave has had many species of mantids. As i was saying about UVB effecting mantids he found that when a mantis is left outside in the sun it is green 9 out of 10 times after awhile. So we have had a UVB light on all of the ghosts he has and the 1 that he had under the light is pure green and the other 3 he put under the light are now turning green. I just got a uvb so mine have not changed much but i am hoping for some results soon. I believe that UVB is the main cause of green color. It may have to do with surroundings and humidity but as i am looking at his setup whenever we put a UVB light they turn green. He has a budwing that is turning green now also from the UVB light. Here are some pics of his green ghost. I will have him post some pics of his other mantids and how he has them setup. Also i encourage every1 to try the light out and see how it works.

 

[pedro92]

Here is the ghost pics. I will get more of his turning green. And the budwing turning green.

 

[bugzilla]

I keep alot of coral species as well as mantis. With corals, colour pigments increase/decrease in relation to available UV light; brighter colours reflect the UV to prevent damage to the animals cells.

I know mantis aren't photosynthetic like coral but this colour change may be related. It's also likely to be a camoflage thing. If they are in a bright environment like a tree top then the surroundings will be green, therefore being green is a good idea . Closer to a forest floor is alot darker and indeed browner <_< . Being bright green down here would be like having a flashing light on yourhead saying EAT ME

 

[Christian]

It may not be due to the UV-B light itself but to the different reflected spectrum of the environment. Insects perceive UV rays, so the environment has another color for them as it has for us. Possibly the color of the surroundings just tells the mantis it is better to turn green. Usual light bulb spectra may not have this effect and make the environment look "browner" for the mantis.

 

[pedro92]

It may not be due to the UV-B light itself but to the different reflected spectrum of the environment. Insects perceive UV rays, so the environment has another color for them as it has for us. Possibly the color of the surroundings just tells the mantis it is better to turn green. Usual light bulb spectra may not have this effect and make the environment look "browner" for the mantis.

How about i try a few mantids with no green in the enclosure and have UVB on them and see what happens.

 

[Orin]

To make it short, mainly three factors are responsible, often in combination or with different relative importance: light intensity and spectrum, humidity and color of the environment.

At least one major factor you're missing is the texture of the environment. The material used can affect the coloration more than the color of the material (you can find some interesting experiments dealing with texture in insect adaptive coloration). Also, green doesn't necessarily beget green. Light brown wood can lead to green whereas green leaves or plastic won't. Of course each species can be affected by different variables in different ways.

 

[darkspeed]

Another thing that you have to take into consideration Chamelionare, is that only ghost females will turn green... Males simply dont, and no amount of environmental conditioning will turn a male ghost green.

 

[pedro92]

I know i just didnt say that because someone else had already stated that but thanks anyways.

 

[Orin]

Male ghosts can be as green as females as nymphs. They can retain a lot of green as adults but it is an ugly army green.

 

[Gurd]

At least one major factor you're missing is the texture of the environment. The material used can affect the coloration more than the color of the material (you can find some interesting experiments dealing with texture in insect adaptive coloration). Also, green doesn't necessarily beget green. Light brown wood can lead to green whereas green leaves or plastic won't. Of course each species can be affected by different variables in different ways.

This is an interesting idea of texture