Evidence for Genetic Color Determination in Mantids?

[MandellaMandy123]

Hmm... I'll have to keep different mantids in different environments and see what happens.

 

[Mime454]

Was gonna say that until I scrolled all the way down. Gripen's right.

Citation needed. Even if slight (epi)genetic changes could occur, and I'm not conceding that they do, the odds that they would be on a part of the chromosome that controls color would be astronomical.

 

[Orin]

I did it with my majusculas.

I didn't mean to suggest there aren't any on/off switches. Did your change accompany molts? Any photos?

 

[MantidLord]

Citation needed. Even if slight (epi)genetic changes could occur, and I'm not conceding that they do, the odds that they would be on a part of the chromosome that controls color would be astronomical.

First of all, why are you asking me for a citation? I won't give one to you, go look for yourself. Anyone who knows anything about genetics knows that mutations can occur. And that's ASSUMING that there's some chromosome that determines color, which is what this whole thread is about. You want a citation, then ask everyone who posted on this thread to list one, because so far it's pretty much all speculation.

And I may come off as rude, but you're the same dude who asked me for a citation for the "insects are yummy" thread http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=26053&st=0&p=204405&hl=citation&fromsearch=1entry204405 when I said they have more protein than beef and pork. I provided multiple citations, I have nothing to prove to you. Get off my back and do some research.

 

[Gill]

I could be wrong, but I think that the results we see show pretty clearly that mantis coloration is primarily influenced by the environment. We see mantids from the same ooth turning out different colors. (By the way, if we saw this in a parthenogenic mantis, it would put the final nail in the genetic coffin, so if anyone has seen this, please speak up! ) We see green mantids on live foliage and dead ones on dead foliage(in the wild).

There is literature on environmental influence to colour change, for example

Battiston, R., Fontana P., Colour Change and Habitat Preferences in Mantis religiosa. Bull. Insectology, 2010, 63: 85-89.



Suggesting that all mantises in a species that can change colour have the ability for either colour in their genes and the environment must be influencing the expression of the genes, switching the expression of a gene/genes on or off. That is they have genetic plasticity.

Here is an example of such genetic plasticity in bees

http://www.nature.co...ll/nn.3218.html

So suggests no easy medelian genetics for colour more something like one gene that expressed gives green colour, silenced following a stress trigger equals brown colour or some such. Technically it is in the DNA, it is genetic and it is wether the genes are expressed or not and the environment, humidity, light, temperature, day length etc is one factor that influences wether the gene/genes are switched on or off.

 

[MantidLord]

Thank you for the literature. Finally. I figured color change was something that was determined by the environment, it's just you can't rule out ***-linked genes simply because parthenogenetic individuals are "clones". Like gripen said, mutations do occur, so some of them may not be clones.