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PyroCinnamon

Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2016
Messages
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Location
Utah
Hey what's up fellow mantis keepers! My name is Sam and I have just recently found out about this niche hobby! I find mantids fascinating to observe and keep. I decided to make this account in order to tap the knowledge bank that is located on this forum and purchase mantids through private breeders. I hope to breed my own mantids and maybe become a pro like most of you probably are. But for now I humbly accept that I am a mantid peon. I recently purchased my first mantis. His name is Rasputin. He is an L2 Spiny Flower Mantis nymph. Very lively and a voracious eater! I also own 3 bearded dragons, 2 leopard geckos, and a dwarf hamster. I hope you will welcome me to this awesome community!  :D

 
Hello Sam and welcome to the forum
welcome.gif


With your experience with reptiles you shouldn't find many issues with keeping mantids, as much of the husbandry skills you learned apply to mantids. Also if needed here is the caresheet for the Spiny Flower mantis (Pseudocreobotra wahlbergii).

 
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Thanks man! I have bred and sold beardies and geckos for years so I figured this wouldn't be too difficult. And I find their short life span and fast reproductive traits a great choice for helping me with some of my biology projects in college. I plan on documenting family trees, genetic mutations, and dissecting dead specimens. They are as interesting as most reptiles but require less care and less commitment. Is inbreeding a problem with mantids or does it matter? Because if it is I might have to buy from a couple different breeders. I'm thinking Rhombodera basalis might make a good candidate due to their large size and reproductive properties. But if you think a different species would be good let me know!

 
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Thanks man! I have bred and sold beardies and geckos for years so I figured this wouldn't be too difficult. And I find their short life span and fast reproductive traits a great choice for helping me with some of my biology projects in college. I plan on documenting family trees, genetic mutations, and dissecting dead specimens. They are as interesting as most reptiles but require less care and less commitment. Is inbreeding a problem with mantids or does it matter? Because if it is I might have to buy from a couple different breeders. I'm thinking Rhombodera basalis might make a good candidate due to their large size and reproductive properties. But if you think a different species would be good let me know!
Great, sounds like you have a head start, and a interesting purpose as well. :)

In some species of mantids, for example the Orchids (Hymenopus coronatus) it is said between 3 to 5 inbreed generations and defected and/or sterile nymphs are the result (as discussed from some various breeders of the species). The problem encountered thought by several breeders, is from the various Orchid mantids in the hobby all originating from the same original mantid parents. So mixing in some further distant related Orchids are needed to keep their gene pool from mutating.

In reality though there are many who still seem to be oblivious (or just ignore) the US Customs/import laws and get new specimens anyway. It is difficult to know if any of their offspring however make it into the general hobby breeding stock. As such no one can seem to confirm or deny what the real cause of the Orchid mantis inbreeding issue truly is.

Thankfully, in nearly all other mantid species it doesn't seem to be a issue at all, as mentioned by other breeders. Personally I've only typically done one generation of inbreeding various species without problems. Typically as I keep native species, and as such I always have new parents/stock from wild captive specimens in the gene pool - or I am ready to try a new species by that point. ;)

Indeed the Rhombodera sp. are great for beginners (and some seasoned keepers still prefer them) and is one of the largest in size, and beats species in the same length category even (like the Tenodera sinensis) by the overall size and girth - making them appear much larger.

If you are just looking for a beginner list or such, here is my default response I keep on hand for new members. :D

Where to buy

To start with you can buy mantids from the classified section (see the feedback section about the sellers too). Of course there are many great sites to buy mantids and related goods from online such as BugsInCyberspace, MantisPlace, and MantisPets the most common and recommended for mantis themselves.

Beginner mantis species

Ghosts (Phyllocrania paradoxa) are great and tame easily, and have a very exotic look but are a very hardy species - recommended for beginners too. Chinese mantids (Tenodera sinensis) are a great option as they are a naturalized species so can be captured in the wild - I can collect over a hundred locally in a few weeks here. The Chinese mantids also grow large at about 4", which means they also are hungry pigs.

One of my favorites has to be Carolina mantids (Stagmomantis carolina) as they are a native species, and extra nymphs from a ooth can be released (again this is another species that can be found wild locally). They seem to have individual attitudes/traits, take to handling and various feeders well, etc. Likely though I have a soft spot for them as I got started in the hobby rescuing my first mantid from a winter freeze while at work. They do require a bit more care, but if you can mange humidity and feeding properly, I doubt you'll have problems with the species as it was my first.

Some great beginner mantid species though are Flower mantis (Creobroter sp.), Giant shield/hooded mantis (Rhombodera sp.), African mantis (Sphodromantis lineola), Budwing mantis (Parasphendale affinis or Parasphendale argrionina), Chinese mantis (Tenodera sinensis), Double shield mantids (Pnigomantis medioconstricta), Ghost mantis (Phyllocrania paradoxa), Giant Asian mantis (Hierodula membranacea), and Griffin mantis (Polyspilota griffinii). Although some are not necessary listed as typical beginner species, they are all hardy, and seem to do fine even with beginners.

Have fun searching and getting started.

 
Heyas and welcome to a breat group and lots of help and info.

Like myself, there are many "noobies" just getting started. Great place here to read old messages for kernels of info or ask for help and someone will jump in.

Help is just a post away. 

 
Thank you guys for all your advice! This seems like a great community.

Great, sounds like you have a head start, and a interesting purpose as well. :)

In some species of mantids, for example the Orchids (Hymenopus coronatus) it is said between 3 to 5 inbreed generations and defected and/or sterile nymphs are the result (as discussed from some various breeders of the species). The problem encountered thought by several breeders, is from the various Orchid mantids in the hobby all originating from the same original mantid parents. So mixing in some further distant related Orchids are needed to keep their gene pool from mutating.

In reality though there are many who still seem to be oblivious (or just ignore) the US Customs/import laws and get new specimens anyway. It is difficult to know if any of their offspring however make it into the general hobby breeding stock. As such no one can seem to confirm or deny what the real cause of the Orchid mantis inbreeding issue truly is.

Thankfully, in nearly all other mantid species it doesn't seem to be a issue at all, as mentioned by other breeders. Personally I've only typically done one generation of inbreeding various species without problems. Typically as I keep native species, and as such I always have new parents/stock from wild captive specimens in the gene pool - or I am ready to try a new species by that point. ;)

Indeed the Rhombodera sp. are great for beginners (and some seasoned keepers still prefer them) and is one of the largest in size, and beats species in the same length category even (like the Tenodera sinensis) by the overall size and girth - making them appear much larger.

If you are just looking for a beginner list or such, here is my default response I keep on hand for new members. :D

Where to buy

To start with you can buy mantids from the classified section (see the feedback section about the sellers too). Of course there are many great sites to buy mantids and related goods from online such as BugsInCyberspace, MantisPlace, and MantisPets the most common and recommended for mantis themselves.

Beginner mantis species

Ghosts (Phyllocrania paradoxa) are great and tame easily, and have a very exotic look but are a very hardy species - recommended for beginners too. Chinese mantids (Tenodera sinensis) are a great option as they are a naturalized species so can be captured in the wild - I can collect over a hundred locally in a few weeks here. The Chinese mantids also grow large at about 4", which means they also are hungry pigs.

One of my favorites has to be Carolina mantids (Stagmomantis carolina) as they are a native species, and extra nymphs from a ooth can be released (again this is another species that can be found wild locally). They seem to have individual attitudes/traits, take to handling and various feeders well, etc. Likely though I have a soft spot for them as I got started in the hobby rescuing my first mantid from a winter freeze while at work. They do require a bit more care, but if you can mange humidity and feeding properly, I doubt you'll have problems with the species as it was my first.

Some great beginner mantid species though are Flower mantis (Creobroter sp.), Giant shield/hooded mantis (Rhombodera sp.), African mantis (Sphodromantis lineola), Budwing mantis (Parasphendale affinis or Parasphendale argrionina), Chinese mantis (Tenodera sinensis), Double shield mantids (Pnigomantis medioconstricta), Ghost mantis (Phyllocrania paradoxa), Giant Asian mantis (Hierodula membranacea), and Griffin mantis (Polyspilota griffinii). Although some are not necessary listed as typical beginner species, they are all hardy, and seem to do fine even with beginners.

Have fun searching and getting started.
I just recently purchased 2 Hierodula Membranacea from http://panterrapets.com and 2 more from http://www.bugsincyberspace.com I am also looking to purchase another pair from someone on the classifieds. Although some of the mantids in genus Rhombodera are larger and more aggressive. I chose Hierodula Membranacea due to the availability and most likely more variance in the gene pool. Turns out Adam and Eve weren't genetically identical. Mantids are ectotherms meaning they grow and mature based on how much heat they receive. What do you recommend for heating? I live in a fairly cold state and can't afford to crank up my heater. Currently what I am doing is putting all my mantids in their deli cups into a large rubber maid container with a heating pad underneath. This makes it very easy to maintain a certain temperature and humidity for a number of mantids. I'm not to concerned with aesthetic just about cost and space effectiveness. Thank you so much for giving me such an in depth guide! It really helps and it really isn't out there on the internet. In my state we don't have many mantids in fact I've only seen one in my whole life up in the foot hills where I live. Pretty sure it was a Chinese Mantis. So I'm not sure that I can really collect wild species and certainly not at this time of year. I might go ooth hunting though! That might be fun!

 
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Thank you guys for all your advice! This seems like a great community.

I just recently purchased 2 Hierodula Membranacea from http://panterrapets.com and 2 more from http://www.bugsincyberspace.com I am also looking to purchase another pair from someone on the classifieds. Although some of the mantids in genus Rhombodera are larger and more aggressive. I chose Hierodula Membranacea due to the availability and most likely more variance in the gene pool. Turns out Adam and Eve weren't genetically identical. Mantids are ectotherms meaning they grow and mature based on how much heat they receive. What do you recommend for heating? I live in a fairly cold state and can't afford to crank up my heater. Currently what I am doing is putting all my mantids in their deli cups into a large rubber maid container with a heating pad underneath. This makes it very easy to maintain a certain temperature and humidity for a number of mantids. I'm not to concerned with aesthetic just about cost and space effectiveness. Thank you so much for giving me such an in depth guide! It really helps and it really isn't out there on the internet. In my state we don't have many mantids in fact I've only seen one in my whole life up in the foot hills where I live. Pretty sure it was a Chinese Mantis. So I'm not sure that I can really collect wild species and certainly not at this time of year. I might go ooth hunting though! That might be fun!
Your more than welcome, and glad to see you already have got some mantids coming too. :)

For heating see my section below. ;) I hear you about the heat, and we tend to keep ours set somewhere in the 60's in the winter. Yesterday we found out one of the house furnace control boards went bad after trying to turn it on finally this year (we have one for upstairs and another for downstairs heating) and are awaiting a new board to arrive. The 30s F outside was a bit cold last night without the furnace, but are getting by with a gas fireplace and fan for now. :)

Perhaps you will find a new heating method below that will allow you to more freely see and interact with your mantids without the difficultly. Your welcome for the help, and most forums like this have their topics not listed, so if you do some searching with the menu you may find more information as well.

Interesting to hear that mantids are few in your state. Perhaps though with some patience you will find several ooths as a single female will lay about a dozen ooths, and there is bound to be more than one. Best of luck searching. The first few times can be challenging, much like mushroom hunting, but the more you do it the more you will find with each search.

Heating

Heating wise the most common methods are a adjustable desk lamp with a incandescent bulb (adjust the proximity for more/less heat) and reptile heating pads/mats (the Zoo Med ones being the most recommended). In the same aspect if your heating a larger setup, like a cricket/roach colony, a brooder lamp and red bulb work great (and do not seem to affect them at night either).

Some use personal heating pads (although they are more expensive than reptile mats many people already have one) but they can be problematic/dangerous, and most have a 1 hour safety timer (setting up a simple light timer bypasses that though, and I used one for about a year on crickets originally). Of course if you setup a bug room then other options are whole room heating (house furnace), or the various personal/space heaters (although they can be dangerous).

A new heating source I've heard about recently is heat tape, heat ropes, and variations. Here is a site that has such heating sources (although I haven't purchased from them, or know anything other than they come up in Google). So far it seems they are a good alternative heat source, but being rather new products time will tell. I do have to admit though the heat rope and such would be a great alternative and likely heat many habitats too.

Besides heating it is good to have some sort of thermostat for the heating devices to turn off/on as needed to maintain a proper heating range. A quick DIY source is a water-heater thermostat, see my guide here. Although it works great most times, if the room temperature fluctuates much (morning/evening) then it may need to be adjusted daily.

A better alternative is the InkBird STC-1000F, I purchased two recently and waiting for them to arrive. For only $16 it can be programmed to turn heating on when the long corded temperature probe measures a change from 1 degree to as many as you want, likely 5 degrees being the best to prevent constant on/off. Besides heat, the unit also allows a cooling device to be turned on/off as needed too (useful for other more temperature sensitive pets, a Axolotl for example).

Update --

I've been looking more into the heat tape and seems like a great alternative, and would be great for setting up a rack with many pets that need the same temperatures. Of course it can be varied too with additional setups, but it will definitely need a thermostat to control it. When I upgrade to the wall rack system soon I will be using heat tape.

If your interested here is another forum link where the poster describes the heat tape size and heat in time it generates. As it is interesting to see how it does, and good to know as I will be using it for my T's.

 
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