How do you know when an L1 nymph won't make it?

[Vespertino]

First batch of babies, I have a lot to learn

I understand they're teeny and fragile, but is there any way of knowing when an L1 has gone kaput?

I have a couple (luckily only 2 out of a LOT) that are probably dying. Both of these are particularly teeny compared to their siblings.

One I found on the bottom of the terrarium on it's back, missing a leg (probably got into a fight with a sibling), unable to stand, broken forearms or partially paralyzed front arms. I was able to get this one to take water & honey, but it's unable to eat a fruit fly if I give it one at the end of a stick (alive and moving, just stuck on a thin wire). It seemed to try to grab it, but couldn't due to the broken/paralyzed arms and looked like it was giving up despite encouragement.

Found another with all limbs intact, but lethargic, slumping onto front legs rather than standing upright. I couldn't get this one to take water, honey or a fruit fly on a stick- even though I know it was capable of grabbing it. It would move for a few moments and then go still as if it was dying or slump forward. I also tried dotting the back of the fruit fly with honey but no go, it completely ignored the ff.

I've moved both back into solo cups for the meantime until I can check on them in the morning.

So if they can't or won't eat, how long does one wait for things to improve before it's clear the baby just isn't going to bounce back?

 

[LAME]

"Found another with all limbs intact, but lethargic, slumping onto front legs rather than standing upright. I couldn't get this one to take water, honey or a fruit fly on a stick- even though I know it was capable of grabbing it. It would move for a few moments and then go still as if it was dying or slump forward. I also tried dotting the back of the fruit fly with honey but no go, it completely ignored the ff..."

Unfortunately it sounds like this one isn't going to make it, and may die within the night or two.. Really I guess it would depend on what caused its condition... (Mismolt/sickness/diseases...)

The first maybe saveable, you'll have to tweezer feed it for sure... Cut the head off your food source and put the goods right up to its mouth. You may or may not have to hold it until its finished...

 

[MantidBro]

"Found another with all limbs intact, but lethargic, slumping onto front legs rather than standing upright. I couldn't get this one to take water, honey or a fruit fly on a stick- even though I know it was capable of grabbing it. It would move for a few moments and then go still as if it was dying or slump forward. I also tried dotting the back of the fruit fly with honey but no go, it completely ignored the ff..."

Unfortunately it sounds like this one isn't going to make it, and may die within the night or two.. Really I guess it would depend on what caused its condition... (Mismolt/sickness/diseases...)

The first maybe saveable, you'll have to tweezer feed it for sure... Cut the head off your food source and put the goods right up to its mouth. You may or may not have to hold it until its finished...

Id have to agree. The first one doesnt seem to be doing well. Ive had this happen to me too. They dont seem to make it through. But the other one does sound like it has a chance. If you just hand feed it tiny bits at a time it should be able to hold onto it with its mandibles. But if not, like LAME said, you could hold it there for him til hes done.

 

[jrh3]

I keep most L1 nymphs together until L2, keep lots of food for them. Then the ones that dont make it to L2 are the ones that were not gonna make it. L2 i will seperate. Now some species i will seperate but most i don't.

 

[Krissim Klaw]

Usually if you can visually tell a L1 is that bad off they tend to go rather quickly. when it comes to early instars from ootheca hatchings I tend to let nature take its course unless it is clear to me the nymph is so crippled it can't even move/comfortably cling from the cage walls. In the latter I will speed things along.

 

[Rick]

When they do what you described.

 

[Vespertino]

Thanks for all the comments, I appreciate the guidance!

Sadly the first one- with the missing leg and broken/crippled forelimbs- passed on in the middle of the night. Poor thing was too physically damaged to recover.

The second is worse- more lethargic than yesterday. It's almost as if it's resigned itself to die, he won't respond to food/water/honey even if I touch a drop of honey to it's mouth (no mandible movement). I'm going to try the headless FF method next, but if that fails I'm considering the freezer, I hate seeing the poor little guy suffer.

From the feedback on this thread it sounds like this par for the course for the L1's, a few just won't make it and knowing that is somewhat comforting. I'm keeping them all in the same enclosure and only separated these two out when I noticed they weren't doing well. The rest seem fine, even some of the smaller ones around the same size. There's plenty of headless FF's crawling around the enclosure, they don't have to move more than 3 inches to find a bunch of them. Although the nymphs seem to be getting aggressive and fighting for some of the prime perching places.

 

[Vespertino]

Ok, tried the headless FF, I managed to stick the body part to the end of the mouth, but it's not even trying to eat. :no: Sadly I think it's time for the freezer.

 

[jrh3]

Or feed it to a bigger mantis or fish or other animal. That way nothing is wasted.

 

[agent A]

Or feed it to a bigger mantis or fish or other animal. That way nothing is wasted.

this is why i have an 45 axolotl(s)...