How Intelligent are Mantids?

[Bugsincyberspace.com]

Hello,

I just noticed the previous post about mantids and milkweed bugs. I noticed that my mantises don't seem to be very interested in the boxelder bugs that are crawling all over a big leaf maple in the backyard. The orchid mantises and my young pink toe tarantula don't seem at all interested in them. A few budwing mantids tried them, but then dropped them. Perhaps they just don't "taste good"? I can't imagine they'd be very toxic, feeding on maple sap exclusively. They do, however, display red warning coloration when they fly (top of their bodies, under the wings).

I thought this might be relevant because the mantids don't really seem to be interested in something that looks very much like a milkweed bug, regardless of toxicity.

Other than that, I'd like to invite everybody to view and post at the new community site. Yen Saw uploaded some photos and text this morning. Thanks Yen!

http://wiki.bidabug.org/index.php?title=Mantodea

Peter Clausen

[email protected]

 

[jplelito]

Boxelder bugs are in the family Rhopalidae, I think, and they make scents that repel other insects in some cases. These wouldn't be things directly absorbed from the sap they feed on (although, for the record, boxelder bugs eat a lot of other stuff, especially dead bugs and such) but things they are able to chemically modify or synthesize themselves.

Most Hemiptera (true bugs) are relatively repulsive to other insects; stink bugs, toad bugs, boxelder bugs, milkweed bugs, some planthoppers, etc. all pretty much follow this pattern.

Considering some mantids struck them and then dropped them, I would guess they have some kind of quick-acting nasty smelling compound in them that lets predators know to let go of them. Orchid mantids probably ignore them because they don't fly like a moth or bee - I've never been able to get them to eat anything but flying insects.

At any rate, it does seem like maybe there is some innate repsonse like "don't eat bug if bug = crawling and black and red/orange" kind of instinct in mantids. They avoid ladybugs too - and these are definitely toxic.

 

[hsm3]

OK, I can't help but put my 2 cents in. The ability of insects to learn is very well documented in the scientific literature - from flies to bees and butterflies and grasshoppers and yes, mantids. Insects learn things that will help them to survive - location of food, quality of different foods, locations to lay eggs, the list can go on and on.

Therefore I think many insects are very intelligent.

A different question that I think is at the background of this discussion is the idea of self awareness, which has only been shown in a few animals other than humans.

 

[AFK]

very intelligent.

1. evolved selective blindness (a process of elimination) is not necessarily intelligence.

2. learning is not necessarily intelligence, e.g. a robot learning that X does not fit into Y so therefore it tries Z.

3. "very?" then that must make us super super elite geniuses.

 

[AFK]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1640513/posts

 

[hsm3]

Learning is a process that occurs in the lifetime of an individual, and is a different than the evolution of visual systems. Learning may not be a qualifier for intelligence if you are asking for metacognition, the ability to be aware of ones self and what is known or unknown. Some animals do possess self-awareness and metacognition (like humans) and that is a different level of intelligence. I believe the ability to modify behavior in response to experience is a sign of intelligence, and that is why I think many insects are very smart.

 

[AFK]

I believe the ability to modify behavior in response to experience is a sign of intelligence, and that is why I think many insects are very smart.

the ability to respond to stimulus is one of the most fundamental qualifiers of "life," not "intelligence." everything from robots to computers to virii to bacteria to mantises to human beings respond to stimulus and modify their behavior accordingly (and sometimes quite complicatedly too); does this make ALL of them intelligent too?

 

[hsm3]

There is a difference between an innate (genetic) ability to respond to a stimulus and one that is learned. Not everything can learn, and it is not a qualifier for life.

Again, I think intelligence may be defined differently by different people and philosophers, but if you consider the ability to learn as a qualifier for intelligence than insects are intelligent.

 

[AFK]

There is a difference between an innate (genetic) ability to respond to a stimulus and one that is learned. Not everything can learn, and it is not a qualifier for life. Again, I think intelligence may be defined differently by different people and philosophers, but if you consider the ability to learn as a qualifier for intelligence than insects are intelligent.

Every living thing can learn. You are making a tautological contradiction here. In order to respond to a stimulus, the organism needs to learn that there is something to respond to. E.g. a plant comes in contact with many substances, but if it learns that a substance is water, it will respond by absorbing it. Or if a robot learns that an object is too big to fit into a container, it will keep trying another object until it fits.Nothing I said here is open to interpretation, whether among people or philosophers.

The ability to learn is not a qualifier of intelligence. The ability to adopt completely NEW behavior may be though.

 

[OGIGA]

hsm3, don't bother trying to make AFK understand anything. You're going to end up with personal attacks like this here because AFK considers himself an "expert on invertrebrates". Keep chitchatting with him and you'll see more and more of his bizarre definitions. Now, if you guys agreed on the key definitions before discussion, I think you will get many points across.

Nothing I said here is open to interpretation, whether among people or philosophers.

I never thought I would live to see anyone being serious say that.

 

[AFK]

the irony is strong with your post, OGIGA, because your post is nothing but a personal attack.

also, i find it hilarious that there's always the same few people who can't get over the fact that my other thread was clearly a joke lol. sense of humor?

 

[OGIGA]

I don't know of the irony you speak of. But don't bother answering that because I don't care either.

 

[AFK]

Wow, I don't know what your problem is, but I've been pretty civil and respectful the whole time, and you have to come in here to give me attitude. Not cool at all.